Pie break edition RESOURCES >Official Site: Contains de

>>51388825
>>51388840
Thanks, guys. I've been playing for years. Can't believe I didn't know this.

>>51388863
Banned in modern for wasting everyones time. But this isnt modern fampai.

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Damnation

Lapse of Certainty, because no one expects my non-blue deck to have a hard counter.

>>51388977
This is like my second favorite foil in the game. Patrician taste, anon

>>51388818

>What's your favourite off-colour effect? Why do you run it?

Imperial Recruiter, Boros needs all the help it can get.

gimme some janky artifacts, but cheap
like ugins nexus, trading post, master transmuter, etc
different combo pieces or something. i also really like azor's elocutors

>>51388884
What?

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>Pie break edition
This has to be my favorite.

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rate h8 my mazirek deck
tell me im a dirty whore
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/zorak-and-the-original-way-outs/

>>51388818
Darkness for that sweet Shakespeare quote.
Fun to recite every time I cheat death with it in Nekusar.

Also, Rimescale Dragon for the blue tapdown effect in red. Snow Mountains are Baller.

>>51389042
Scourglass, Cumberstone, Ethersworn Adjudicator, Immortal Coil, Mindlock Orb, Scepter of Dominance, and my personal favorite Lich's Mirror

>>51388887
You didn't even put bait on the hook.

>>51389042
>>51389188
Also FUCK speculators, why is Master Transmuter 20 fucking dollars. I'm gonna offer to trade one for a top and see if anyone bites.

>>51389224
Because it's a good combo card. It can return itself and basically Show and Tell a Platinum Emperion.
It's also not likely to be reprinted any time soon, since we passed by a good Artifact Block. There's a difference between Speculation and driven demand, and Transmutor fits into almost any artifact deck that's running blue.

>>51389188
>>51389224
thanks
I'm also thinking of some kind of pillowfort combo for elocutors, but I need some tutors and proliferates

>>51388818

Faithless Looting

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>>51389042
backbreaking effect, easy to build around

>>51389048
The deck that used those types of artifacts to combo off was banned because it took too long not because it was particularly oppressive.

>>51388887
N O R E P R I N T

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>>51388887
doubling season

>>51389198
And I still get (you)s

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>>51389042

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>>51389042
This is good

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>>51388818
>What's your favourite off-colour effect?

I was gonna pick one for every color but couldn't think of any more.

Would Chaos Warp count as off-color? Because I do fucking love Chaos Warp.

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>>51389905
>friend tells me Mana Tithe is a shit card
>I tell him he's shit
>blast his Panharmonicon with it while I'm playing Selvala

Sorry to hijack but I need help making a guy at work super salty.

There's 4 of us total that get together after work to play together, games are normally 3 man but occasionally the 4th will join too.

We all take things pretty lighthearted but this fucking basement dweller can not stop playing [insert colour] goodstuff/control/counters. Usually white (so super sick of seeing path/swords/ghostly prison/sun titan etc) Basically just decks that don't make it fun for others because he just keeps removing shit, which is fine, some things you wanna get rid of but listening to him drone on and on about how rediculous that card was that he just HAD to get rid of just makes me want to swing a sledge into his face.

Generally I'll play decks with interesting cards and interesting mechanics or a theme, he does not, just the best most optimal cards he can get (and sometimes proxy because "..I have better things to spend my money on", I kid you not).

Anywho I want to make a real fuck you deck to cheese him off and just frustrate the shit out of him. I was considering Child of Alara juiced to the gills with fogs/mass removal/spot removal with stuff like Mazes end and Door to Nothingness.

Does anyone have any other suggested decks? or could they recommend some choice cards to include. Keep in mind these are multiplayer games, so decks geared at 1 on 1 won't work.

>>51390028
The cards you listed him playing aren't problems. White's shtick is having the best answers but no means to efficiently find them/refill their hand afterwards. What are his commanders?

>>51390028
git gud scrub

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>>51389992
Mana tithe is amazing. It's not the greatest in EDH but even so can really come through for you sometimes. I also really like this card, but I wish it only cost 1W instead and was basically like a color shifted version of Memory Lapse.

>>51390236
It comes through when people least expect it, and those are the moments you sometimes need it most.

On a side note, do I consider cards like Sapphire Medallion to be a mana rock in terms of mana base(assuming monocolor deck)? If so, do I count them as 1/2 like a regular mana rock?

>>51390177
Right now he's playing a Heliod deck, in the past he's played a Geist deck with just counters and equipment. Nahiri as well.

>>51390273
I wouldn't personally. The only time those medallions really shine is when you plan to be casting multiple spells each turn. Jori En decks would find them particularly useful (as well as seal of the guildpact)

>>51390309
Virtue's Ruin, Flashfires, Anarchy, Aether Flash, Omen of Fire, Manabarbs, Leyline of Punishment/Everlasting Torment, Combust, Burn from Within, Cursed Totem, Into the Core, Wake of Destruction, Vandalblast/Shatterstorm, Havoc

>>51390359
Oh I forgot Stranglehold & War's Toll for plain-old anti-control

>>51390359
>>51390386
thanks for that, i'll give them a look over.

Wondering if Stax Uril guy ever got a list.

and do you run Mark of Sakiko?

>>51390507
Anarchy is really good, even kills enchantments.
Gloom is also really devastating, if you're playing black. Drop it down early, maybe a little land disruption (Sinkholes are pretty cheap these days) and bam.

That's assuming you're playing freeform/casual.


Otherwise you could play a green deck with motherfucking Back to Nature somewhere in your 75.

>>51390845
>>51390507
Oh and Gloom could be nice for giving them a taste of their own medicine. Though an asshole like that will probably cry that he's being metagamed.

>>51388818
Chaos Warp counts. Red isn't supposed to answer enchantments.

>>51390028

Kalitas stax

It's going to fuck everyone and not just him tho

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>>51389905
>Imp's Mischief on Abrupt Decay

>>51388818
Nice work on the title.

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>>51390872
>>Chaos Warp counts. Red isn't supposed to answer enchantments.

?

>>51391554
>killing a spider with a wrecking ball.jpg

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Green Elemental Blast?

>>51391691
that doesn't interact with the stack

guttural response does, though

also, cards like blossoming defense and vines of vastwood are just better versions of that card

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>>51391691
Rather play green stifle.

>>51391919
Stifle counters triggers as well though.
That said, I won a game with that card. Or rather, prevented myself from dying

>>51390236
The best part about this card is SUNFORGER

>>51388977
How do you deal with them just trying to cast it again next turn? Or do you run ways to shuffle their deck?

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>>51392299
What better way is there to Boros?

>>51390028
Just play talrand with 40 counterspells

>>51392417
Hey i want to build a deck based around making my opponent shuffle their deck multiple times each turn just to piss them off. Any other cards like that which i should know about?

>>51388887
Why womt wizard reprint this card?

>>51392549
It's so strong that they would basically need to build a set around it

>>51392517

That seems like it's likely to get people to absolutely hate you. Not your deck, you.

>>51392549
They hate the timespiral block. And to protect investors.
>from the vault
>2 modern masters sets
>eternal masters
>2 conspiracy sets
It is pretty obvious.

>>51392576
Sounds good to me

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>>51392517

>>51392564
Is this a joke?

A friend's Breya deck has seen some serious upgrades lately, but by far the most frustrating is just the godddamn Darksteel Forge. What's the best option each colour has to get rid of that fucking thing?

>>51392663
Return to Dust, Into the Core, Chaos Warp, Fade Into Antiquity, Deglamer, World Breaker

>>51392711

Also Ironwright's Cleansing, Amulet of Unmaking, Shattering Blow, and Revoke Existence.

Also Scour from Existence. Expensive but completely colorless and an instant.

>>51392663
Counter spell.

>>51392663
>>51392711
>>51392784
>>51392883
Artifact Blast.

Nobody expects it.

>>51392962
Or Illumination. Both Sunforger targets.

Falkenrath Aristocrat in Saskia Tokens? A flying, hasty threat that dodges removal and provides a Sac outlet seems good, but I don't know if it's just "goodstuff" and doesn't help the plan

>>51392981
>dodges removal
It's gonna get Pathed and you know it. Spawning Pit is probably a better sac outlet for the deck.

>>51389418
>token and counter doubling not being green.
Go home Maro.

>>51392994
I don't play against much white, oddly. I'm the only one who uses it at my table. I didn't know about Spawning Pit though, so I'll consider that instead.

>>51392654
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/149232707838/re-damnation-are-you-able-to-expound-on-to-why

>>51393063
Can we just kill mark rosewater?

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>>51388818
Is there anything one can do with Yidris besides Storm and/or Wheels? I want to build something with him, but don't know how to make it somewhat more interesting than those two common archetypes.

>>51393411
Voltron + goodstuff
Deal damage and cast spells to deal more damage and take more combat steps to deal even more damage and cast more spells

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>>51393063
>he wasn't joking with the set being built around it comment

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>>51388818
>Pie break edition
Speaking on a pure Vorthos level, this is one of my absolute favorite cards.

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>>51393464
I was thinking of leaning that way. The notion of having him equipped with Whispersilk Cloak and Elbrus, the Binding Blade seemed lulzy.

>>51391707
>counterspell
>doesn't interact with the stack

>>51393063
Eh, seems reasonable to me. Don't build a set around a single card, and if a card doesn't fit in a set, don't include it.

>>51389418
>wanting a set without planeswalkers
good fucking luck

>>51393569

>Don't build a set around a single card, and if a card doesn't fit in a set, don't include it.

Sure it seems reasonable if you put it in those terms.

The problem is that I don't buy for a fucking second that Damnation is as demanding to include in a supplemental set as Rosewater claims it is.

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>>51393569
But I want an Oompa-Loompa Daddy. I want it NOW.

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What's the best way to signify bribery counters?

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>>51393515
>not posting the objectively superior version

>>51393640
Some form of money, naturally. Gold dollars would be ideal, but half dollars or, most reasonably, quarters would do.

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>>51393651

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>>51392517
Have fun

>>51391573

Well, it is red.

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>>51393640
Make a bunch of rectangles made of green paper the size of a 100 dollar bill, then stack them in a pile and put a 100 dollar bill over it finally use a rubber band to keep them togheter and you have just built yourself a bribery counter!

Recently picked up Marath at my LGS, can I have some reccomendations to get me started on building it?

>>51389132
Maybe try putting mind slash and death cloud in there, people can't have answers to any of your shenanigans, if they have no hands.

>>51389132
>>51393831
Sadistic Hypnotist if you're gonna go that route

>>51393481
Don't shoot the messenger bruh
Besides, next Masterworks series is gonna be spells

>>51393611
So what's your objection to what Maro is saying? And I'm only speaking personally, but practically every set I've seen, one of the first things people ask about is Damnation reprint. So I do believe demand is that high.

>>51393886
I intended that for Maro. Also, is that a fact? Spells would certainly fit Bolas' MO, but...

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>>51389132
Hey, it's pentavus guy from last time


Thopter squadron dude, it's basically pentavus 2.

Carrion
Falkenreathe aristocrat
Or /and
Zulaport cutthroat


Don't forget hardened scales! !

>>51393411
Pirate tribal, where your goal is to cascade into booty and impress your opponent's creatures into service aboard your ship. Y'arg!

(I have a list if you need inspiration)

>>51393993
Please post it!

>>51393913

>So what's your objection to what Maro is saying?

In that post? Nothing, because he puts it in basically unobjectionable terms.

The problem isn't what he's saying, the problem is the premise.

You could also make a unobjectionable argument for why sperm whales are great at flying if you decided to define "flying" as "Moving without touching the ground"

The entire premise that Damnation couldn't fit in a set like Eternal Masters without the entire set being built around it is unsupported.

>>51394070
Thankfully if there was to be a masterpiece / expedition cycle for spells, however. ..

perhaps we'll see a $300 coveted """"reprint""""

>>51394013
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/le-capitane-yidris-et-son-equipage-des-damnes/

There you go anon. Feel free to ignore the dual lands etc. and sub them with different ones. I run them in my decks because I've been playing Magic for far too long and have owned them since Urza block.

I've got the whole deck sleeved up for its first game. Any last recommendations before it hits the table?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/allegiance-to-the-throne/

>>51394328
This is probably the greatest theme deck I've ever seen.

>>51394070
>You could also make a unobjectionable argument for why sperm whales are great at flying if you decided to define "flying" as "Moving without touching the ground"
What? Are you trying to make a point about something?

>The entire premise that Damnation couldn't fit in a set like Eternal Masters without the entire set being built around it is unsupported.
Why do you keep saying this? He's saying that 1. They don't build sets based on a single card in the first place and 2. None of the finished sets felt like they had a place for Damnation. Damnation could very well be in a future Masters set that wasn't built around it.

>>51394436
There was literally a FtV based entirely around field wipes.

>>51394436

I'm a different person, and I didn't read the other guy's post, but I take issue with this:

>2. None of the finished sets felt like they had a place for damnation.

These are obviously weasel words coming from Maro, it would've fit perfectly well in MM1, MM2, or EMA.

We can only speculate as to why Maro can't speak freely about this topic, perhaps Jew city games made a deal with them so it would never be reprinted, then bought out a million copies of damnation

>>51394543
>it would've fit perfectly well in MM1, MM2, or EMA
>Hurr limited environment durr
It's their answer to that, always.

>>51394436
The problem is that they are not defining what it means for a card to "not have a place."

Damnation could have replaced toxic deluge in EM.

Same with Hallowed burial in Conspiracy 2.

>>51394424
Thanks! I take pride in my decks and spend a lot of time with each one. You'll usually see me post them around in the various editions. My favorite decks are easily
-Elves (first tribe I started with when Onslaught was the hot shit)
-Pirates
-Rasputin

Hope the list helps inspire you!

>>51394436

>What? Are you trying to make a point about something?

That an argument that sounds compelling and logical isn't actually correct if it's based on a faulty or unsupported premise.

In this case the premise that Damnation would have warped Eternal Masters too much to allow for it's inclusion.

>He's saying that... none of the finished sets felt like they had a place for Damnation.

Which he has already said previously.

It also wasn't the question that was asked.

He was asked WHY it didn't fit in any of those sets.

He gives literally no explanation for what makes Damnation particularly unsuitable for any of this sets, he just vaguely claims that it is the case and then gives a long winded analogy about fireplaces as a distraction.

4 cmc "destroy all creatures" is not Black. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be reprinted in a Masters/Expedition set, I just don't see them finding a way to justify a color-break like that in standard.

>>51394717

Literally no one expects them to print it in Standard.

>>51394717

It's not so much a color break as a color stretch though

They haven't printed a 4 mana no drawback wrath in standard recently so I completely understand not printing it in a standard legal set (tho I disagree)

Really no excuse for leaving it out of the products dedicated to reprints

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>>51394717
>Slightly better sometimes Damnation and slightly worse Damnation are black
>Damnation is not Black

>>51394420
Please respond

>>51394328
I wasnt even going to play yidris even though i bought the precon and now i have too. I wanted a silly theme deck and this looks like it might be more fun than skellyship

>>51394650
How do you run your elves?

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Is this card any good?

>>51394717
They should just make a set like modern masters that has off color abilities as the theme.

>>51394784
>pay life, get -x/-x
>6 cmc, conditional

>>51394717
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/142309786748/so-about-damnation-color-bend-or-color-break-any
Do you know what Black does really well? It's Destroy Creatures. Unless Decree of Pain isn't black, then you're just wrong.

>>51394825
My playgroup is pretty casual, but I've been effectively beaten by it before. I think it'd only be useful in a Mono-Black deck with big mana though. Still, it'd be your one-way ticket to tutoring up your combo in full! I say go for it.

>>51394845
Sorry 5cmc

>>51394845
>6 CMC
>Can't actually read
>Thinks damnation isn't black when even Maro disagrees
Really gets your noggin joggin'.

>>51394825
In a non competitive format that card is decent. But in competitive play anything that costs over 4 mana is usually bad or it needs to be a card that will win the game

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>Damnation isn't black

>>51394825

It's pretty alright as long as your deck doesn't have problems with BB.

It's only REALLY useful if your deck has a big combo that requires 7+ mana to pull off anyway.

>>51394811
G/B Elfball with Nath as the commander. Emphasis on running a very large amount of creatures.

>>51394785
I can tell you that the first comment is 100% retardation. Literally every statement is something a retard would say.

Word of Seizing is iffy. See how it works out in your meta for a bit.
Ob Nix is definitely iffy. Ironically, Ob Nix of the Black Oath is a great replacement for him.
Personal opinion here Top is gay don't run it.

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>>51394825
I run it in Big Black Mana. I don't really have a combo finisher, but it gives me a way to get the big spells I need to win next turn. I also run Insidious Dreams, though, so obviously my playgroup isn't exactly the most cutthroat.

>>51394852
Black is selfish and ambitious, neglecting the whole in order to serve itself. White is about order and balance, ignoring the individual to appeal to the community.

White gets costs effective, nonconditional wipe because their MO is brining everyone back down to their level. When White tries to remove a single creature, it's usually comes with the cost of being restrictive in targetting or having a drawback.

Black's domain in creature destruction is their suite of targeted removal. When they attempt to apply that to everyone, its usually at a higher cost or through means that are Black in nature: paying life, global sacrifice, -x/-x or "weakening/decaying"

The fact that people still say 4 mana "Destroy All" fits Black is the reason we will never get another Time Spiral block.

>>51394864
>a typo automatically makes me the winner of an argument!
>using MaRo, of all people, as a justification
>>51394881
>6 mana

>>51395026
There's plenty of 5 and above nonconditional black board wipes, why can't black get one effectively costed one?

>>51395026
>The fact that people still say 4 mana "Destroy All" fits Black is the reason we will never get another Time Spiral block.
You can't be serious. You honestly cannot actually think that is the problem with time spiral. The problem with time spiral was the sheer number of mechanics, and it being a masturbatory set for the old fogey fans.

>>51395058
>Not using MaRo as justification when he was the lead of the fucking design team

You're retarded.

>>51395081
It did. It was in a set where the Pie was intentionally bled.

>>51395081
By plenty I mean more like a hand full, but there isn't that many board wipes that have been printed in general.

>>51395105
Yes, and Mark Rosewater says that Damnation isn't bled at all. It's a colorshifted card that makes sense in it's colorshifted color. Like Prodigal Pyromancer.

>>51395129
>>51395096
And Maro is the word of god, ineffable and never-wrong

>>51395170
As a designer of the card game, he knows far more than you do about what is "In Black's Color Pie"

>>51395184
That may be so, but thay doesn't stop him from being wrong here.

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Decided to take apart Atraxa and make Ghave +1/+1 counters. I wanna make the manabase a little better, and I think I might have too much ramp and not enough card draw. Thoughts?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-01-17-counterpunch/

>>51395184
Straight from the Jew's mouth
>But I really wanted it in. So, every once in a while I would go to Devin (Low, the lead developer of Planar Chaos) and stress how valuable the card would be as a promotional card for the set. “All we have to do is show the card,” I said time and time again, “and we’ll sell the set. We won’t have to waste the ad guys’ time. Just have a blank white sheet with Damnation in the middle. By itself, it will sell the set.”

>>51395246
Replace harrow with cultivate, keyrune with phyrexian arena, and the train vehicle with Read the Bones or something similar

>>51395330
With only one planeswalker, idk if the Oath of Ajani is worth it. I would conaider subing both out with wall of blossoms & bloodgift demon

>>51393514
Whoa. I had no idea this card existed. That's really neat and it fits so well flavorfully.

>>51394508
Underrated Post

>>51395373
>Harrow with Cultivate
No thanks. Prefer the untapped lands.

>Keyrune with Arena
Probably will.

>Train with Read the Bones
Lolno. Train is great, especially since it dodges wraths. Got it to a 25/25 before. Plus it's always funny to say "Here comes the pain train". Read the Bones is way too weak of card draw. I'd probably go with Bloodgift Demon over that if I were to take the train out.

>>51395428
I mostly added it cuz I have it, and it's an easy enabler for +1/+1 counters. Will either replace with something a little more flexible like abzan ascendancy or maybe my extra fauna shaman I have.

>>51395598
Honestly... honestly... honestly... this is gonna sound really apologist-like but Wrath of God is the face of board wipes and they had a really sweet new art to match the game's new actual gods, and the explanation I recall them giving for not including Damnation was because it was too similar to Wrath and they want variety in FTV sets. So I can almost, almost, almost buy that. But they've also said FTV sets are for collectors and every person that collects board wipes for some reason will want a fucking Damnation. So.

>>51395620
Cultivate is -1 card for 2, harrow is -2 for 2, the idea for RtB is to recur it with eternal witness. Instant speed lanfall is rather pointless unless its a theme or you can use it to fetch non-basics like bajuka bog, which your deck is sorely lacking. You must not be goinf up against a lot of white if that vehicle can get to 25/25, dead card by itself. Wall of blossoms, like Omens, is sun titan-able

>>51389090
It's New Phyrexia, pretty much every color had black splashed over it.

>>51395626
And both Akromas are similar but they included both of them.

>>51395686
Personal preference is two on the battlefield. I don't have extra land drop cards, so I'd prefer them to be there already.

Nah, whites the most uncommon color. It's the weakest commander color, so it makes sense. I like the train because it enables itself, without having to use other methods of getting +1/+1 counters.

>>51395776
They really should have only printed the Red one and given us Pristine Angel or Malach of the Dawn

>>51393693
more like,
>Ob Nixilis, Unshekled

>trying to plot to turn a Gruul deck into Naya
fuck my life. The only thing changing is adding a color but the amount of cards I have to remove to get white going is such a pain.

It's cool though. Deck is about "Big Creatures Big Mana" and I don't have to change a fucking thing about that.

>>51395911
see if there is anything in the ajani duel deck

>>51395918
Ajani vs Bolas?

>>51395911
I hope you're running Sunforger

>>51395957
I was thinking ajani vs ball of yarn

Also would you care for a dumb story from my middle school?

>>51396052
Go ahead anon

>>51393693
Aren't almost all cards that let you search your library a may ability?

What cards force them to tutor for something? That an opponent can cast, I mean.

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>>51388887
>>51394845
>>51395058


Everyone who is saying Damnation is not black is wrong and bad.

Mark Rosewater may be (partly) responsible for gimping red because "muh flavorful color pie limitations" but if you think he doesn't represent the common opinion at Wizards you are dead wrong.

Damnation is not a color pie bend, not even a break. Being a powerful effect within the boundaries of a color is not a break.

If Damnation is a break, so is Lightning Bolt.

>>51396128
see>>51395330

>>51396128
see>>51395026
as well

come back with an argument besides
>muh maro said so

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>>51396071
>It was the year of the scars of mirrodin, and a lot of kids were playing mtg.
>I hadn't played mtg since weebland/ravnica round 1
>get hyped after seeing a friend of mine beat another, by card out, with 100 or so life points, and3 or 4 avatars, thanks to a normal ajani
>decide to open a few packs to try and match them
>Mostly "scars of mirrodin" packs
>See some "Rise of the eldrazi" packs that tobaco shops haven't stocked out yet at a lower price.
>Try the Zendikar pack for shits and giggles.
>GIDEON
>MOTHERFUCKING
>JURA
>FF>> to a few days later
>haven't played with him yet.
>See a kid interested in my brand new gideon.
>"What do you have to trade, then?"
>See a dirty Ajani Goldmane.
>getting flashbacks from that one game
>get impulsive and make the trade

>>51396248
Here's the deal. Black get's boardwipes.
It getting boardwipes at a more effective CMC isn't a break of the color pie. It's stronger.

Red getting a stronger version of bolt wouldn't mean that it's a break of the color pie. It would just be strong, and undoubtedly too strong.

Strong =/= Out of the color pie.

>>51395330
>Just have a blank white sheet with Damnation in the middle. By itself, it will sell the set
To be honest, it totally would

>>51396259
please tell me those aren't the eyes on the actual card

>>51396273
It has to pay more to get them. That's been my argument this entire time. Stop straw-manning with the idea that I don't think Black doesn't get board wipes.

You're Red analogy with bolt is a total non-sequitur

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>>51388818
I love this card but I really don't understand why it's a RW ability.

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>>51396319
Black gets board wipes at any cost. Toxic Deluge costs 3 mana, Mutilate costs 4. They don't work the same way, but they ARE board wipes. Damnation is a board wipe that costs 4.

Red can get direct damage spells, but Wizards does not believe 3 damage for 1 mana is fair. That doesn't make Bolt a color pie break, just too powerful. There's no straw man here, son.

What do you even think a color pie break is?

>>51396319
It doesn't need to pay more to get them, though. Most of White's Boardwipes cost more than Wrath of God.
Most black boardwipes cost just as much as most white boardwipes.

>>51396319
following your logic the Bolt comparison makes complete sense.

>>51396365
because it forges suns. suns burn bright, this is represented by the flame in the red symbol and the light in the white symbol.

>>51396408
>They don't work the same way
precisely

>they ARE board wipes
I just said I know Black gets them

>Damnation is a board wipe that costs 4
With the inherent White effect of 'Destroy All Creatures'

>Red can get direct damage spells, but Wizards does not believe 3 damage for 1 mana is fair.
What does that have to do with one color cutting into another's portfolio?

>There's no straw man here, son.
You've been framing your responses as if to counter the fake argument (hence, strawman) that I don't think Black ever gets board wipe cards. See my Original Post>>51394717

>>51396439
>if a made up card were to exist, my argument would be valid!

>>51396517
Lightning Bolt is a made up card?

>>51396531
jesus christ
>Red getting a stronger version of bolt wouldn't mean that it's a break of the color pie. It would just be strong, and undoubtedly too strong.

>>51396540
so what? I'm not talking about that

>>51396469
...Sure, why not.

>>51396497
>I just said I know Black gets them
>With the inherent White effect of 'Destroy All Creatures'
so every black board wipe breaks the color pie?

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>>51396497
The argument is

1) 4cmc "destroy all creatures, they can't be regenerated" is not black

vs

2) 4cmc "destroy all creatures, they cannot be regenerated" is black but too powerful

The Wizards design team sides with the secondary option. If you think Damnation is not a black effect, what makes you think your opinion carries more weight than the opinion of the people who make this game?

>>51396547
then what are you talking about?

>>51396577
No, have you been reading the conversation at?all? Scroll through before replying please.

>>51395823
Na, they should have put in old linvala.

>>51396608
You just said that Destroy All Creatures is inherently a white effect. Doesn't that make every nonwhite card with that text break the color pie?

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LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY

WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE CARD EFFECT?
WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE VARIANT OF THAT?

There's nothing quite like stealing your opponents big scary shit and beating them to death with it.

>>51396601
>the people who make this game
It was Maro, and only Maro, who was pushing this card. He's on record for supporting it for more than just design reasons.>>51395330

>>51396280
The reveal of Planeshifted literally was WoG changing into Damnination.

>>51392595
Doesn't help that Regeneration was no longer evergreen.

>>51396645
Something tells me you haven't read the thread, else you would know why that's not the argument I'm making.

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Any Marchesa, Black Rose people here? Bored green black graveyard kid wants to know how fun creature based grixis is. Look pretty cool? Signature card or combos I should know of?

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>>51396654

>I know MTG better than the head designer who has over a decade of experience.

>A developer pushing the power of the card makes the card not fit within the color pie.

>Power level of a card having literally anything to do with fitting in the color pie.

k

>>51396680
Why can't you answer the question? I think you just don't want to admit a flaw in your reasoning.

>>51396706
>Power level of a card having literally anything to do with fitting in the color pie.
It actually does. There's this one color called Green you see, whose shtick is getting the best beaters. I have no doubt people would contest if Blue suddenly got a 2 drop 3/2 with trample

>>51396718
how about you reread the post your initially responded too >>51396497, or just go up one set of replies>>51396319. This is the last (You) you'll get from me.

>>51396650
I enjoy Double strike, a lot

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>>51396783

>What is Delver of Secrets

1-drop 3/2 flier that has been stated to be within Blue's color pie.

>>51396860
>stated
By who, exactly? That's right.

>>51396706
>I know MTG better than the head designer who has over a decade of experience.
Every single time.

>>51396818
The other anon said
>Damnation is a board wipe that costs 4
You replied with
>With the inherent White effect of 'Destroy All Creatures'
As if that counters his argument. As if you're pointing a flaw in the card. Your only complaint there was that the card has the text Destroy All Creatures, wihch you say is an "inherent White effect". This makes it look like you are saying that cards that contain that text outside of White are breaking the pie.
It doesn't matter if in your other replies you are arguing something else, in the post I replied to that is your argument. Either admit you said something that contradicts your previous arguments or stop arguing since you clearly don't have any integrity and don't even know what point you're defending anymore.

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>People jerking off over the color pie thinking their fucking devs instead of talking about edh

yall "That guy" and you know it

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>>51396650
Stealing opponents' cards. I just love the irony of beating your opponents to death with their own toys. But for some reason, I'm not that much of a fan of Blue's method of doing, just taking stuff from the battlefield. I dunno, feels cheap I guess?

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>>51396910
>>51396927

What makes you discount Mark Rosewater's opinions on the color pie?

In all seriousness, he HAS been working on the game for a very long time, and while I think he is limiting the power of the game a bit too much, he has the boundaries of the color pie pretty solidly. Who would you say is a better authority?

Would you at least agree that it's reasonable to look to the literal head designer of MTG as someone who can establish what is within the color pie?

>>51397018
Uh, no, I'm the second post you quoted, and I was trying to say that I don't like that argument, and I'm tired of how often it comes up. Every single time, you have some idiot say "Oh, don't listen to Maro. Sure, he's been working on Magic for over a decade, and I've never even tried to make a Magic card, but you should listen to me, because I'll tell you what you want to hear!" That said, Maro isn't a god, and I don't agree with him on everything. For example, his insistence that Song of the Drayds doesn't work in Green and that Blue should have one-way exile effects. I have to say though, I am glad that Red is getting Polymorph effects. I also do think he gets shit on unnecessarily. Like, someone pointed out how he changed his stance on Mentor of the Meek, and everyone in the thread said he was just a huge hypocrite, even though the posts were over a year apart. Isn't the guy allowed to change his mind on something?

>>51396987
>take something out of context and suddenly the argument changes!

I said it was an inherently white effect in response to >Damnation is a board wipe that costs 4. Taken together, you get: "4 cmc "destroy all creatures" is not Black" reading comprehension, nigger

>>51397018
Why did you post Sowing Salt?

>>51397118
You didn't say that 4 cmc board wipes are inherently white, you said that board wipes are inherently white. Even if you meant the former, you did say the latter. Learn how to write, dummy.

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>>51397087

I am >>51397018 and I agree with you pretty solidly.

Song of the Dryads is HELLA awesome in green as a way to get around problem creatures. I have even seen it used politically to give a player a land when they needed one badly enough.

Plus, there's a precedent (kind of) in Lignify.

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Monogreen boardwipe incoming!

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>>51397163

>>51397187
a shame it doesn't synergize with the commander, cool none the less

>>51397170
Still kinda makes me mad that they made Imprisoned in the Moon later. In Blue, of course. Like, if I hadn't seen Song before, I probably wouldn't care. But seeing it after Song just rubs me the wrong way.

>I have even seen it used politically to give a player a land when they needed one badly enough.
Huh, never thought of that. How did that turn out?

>>51397187
God I loved seeing that thing. Hmm, Green is pretty much the worst color for boardwipes, isn't it? It's like, this and that card that kills all fliers, and that's it.

>>51397247
Some of those decks still just make me laugh. Kalemne never stood a chance.

>>51397190
Nu-uh silly, it's not a matter of reading comprehension. You literally said
>inherent White effect of 'Destroy All Creatures'
Nowhere did you mention the 4 cmc as part of the supposedly inherent effect. And no, it's not implied anywhere. You just don't want to admit that you phrased it incorrectly.

>>51397261
They would have been a lot closer in power if Ezuri was trigger on cast and Meren triggered when "2 or more die, gain XP for each creature that died".


myzix, on the other hand . . .

>>51397190
>>51397267
>You can't write!
>You can't read!
This argument doesn't get anyone anywhere. Both of you, back off for a moment, think about what each of you has said, then get back to the actual discussion.

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>>51397248
I don't remember the end result, I just saw it and thought that it was an awesome and creative use of a card.

Sometimes it feels like Blue gets everything good in the color pie- card draw, can solve all permanents, mana ramp problems easily solved by cheap artifacts.

Red and Black have to rely on pic related to remove enchantments. 7 mana is pretty average, and I think that's a damn shame.

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>>51397346
but anon

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>>51397261
Giant tribal is a fucking joke. A 6 CMC lord that doesn't even do anything useful. The reason Giants are bad is because their mana costs are WAY too high for a deck in colors that want to vomit out cheap creatures. Red/White has very little mana acceleration, and so a deck of 6-mana 5/5s in the worst colors for ramping is pretty mediocre.

>>51397334
He should be thankful that I'm willfully spending my time trying to teach him some humbleness and hopefully make him aware of his stubborn and arrogant ways. But you're right, we are clogging up the thread with a discussion that doesn't concern or interest anyone else.

>>51397391
Giant tribal being RW is a serious conceptual flaw. It would have been totally fine in RG.

>>51397346
>can solve all permanents
What does blue have against enchantments, other than sending back to hand?

>>51397346
True. Blue has been a bit out of control for a while, but I do like how they've been toning it down. And I'm glad that they're making things like Chaos Warp as a tool for removing things a color might have trouble with. Not that I think they should be everywhere mind you, colors needs strengths and weaknesses.

And speaking of artifacts, I'm really glad that they made all the colors in the Kaladesh block work with artifacts. It always bugged me that artifacts, which are colorless so they can be used by any color, worked better with Blue than any other color. It's like, what's the point of making them colorless then?

>>51397391
I still think pushing Equipment is the way for RW to go. I'm glad that they at least got Vehicle support so it has more than creature beatdown, which I've heard people complain about before. But yeah, never understood making the giant creatures Red, Red loves small creatures. Should've been Green. Hmm, GW Giant tribal? I'd like to see that.

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>>51397376
People who play chaos red effects are the worst kind of people.

>>51397445
Countermagic solves all permanents.

>>51397391
I mean, there aren't a lot of lords that give that type of power boost AND some form of evasion but I totally agree. Boros is not the guild for Giant Tribal. Gruul would have done it a lot better.

>>51394795
Glad you liked the deck! I can attest to it's fun quality. People don't seem to expect commandeer and tend to blind cast big things into it.

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>>51397438
R/G would have been WAY better for Giant Tribal- they could actually cast those fatties.

Kalemne felt kind of shafted- her experience-counter ability is far and above the hardest one to trigger. On average, I see her tick up once or twice per game. Most good creatures in Red/White are not big expensive do nothing giants.

Of course, every rule has exceptions.

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>>51397459
I am actually a bit disappointed with the Smuggler's Copter ban. I think it needed to happen in Standard, but I think gimping the power level of Vehicles from here on out is kind of shitty. It would have been awesome to see R/W as the "Podracing" colors.

>>51397509
Am I the only one who finds this the least aesthetically pleasing of the three Sun Titan arts?

>>51397573
It would have been fine if it didn't have all those spikes in the armor. I get that they are meant to represent sun rays, but it just looks completely over the top and needlessly intricate.

can I get some good graveyard shenanigans?
not just your typical basic exhume/dredge/reanimate cards, but more tech
like jarad, whip of erebos, sheoldred, deathbridge chant

>>51397261
Ezuri/Mizix/Meren are leaps above Kalmne and Daxos.

its insane, I am still curious why RW/BW were shafted compared to the other three.

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>>51397573
>>51397631


I actually like it BECAUSE it feels so otherworldly and needlessly intricate. The other art versions feel too mundane for me.

>>51397648
if you include White, there's Unburial Rites, Immortal Servitude, Obzedat's Aid (can get back planeswalkers), and the ever-satisfying but super expensive Debtor's Knell

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>>51397648
Underrated reanimator card.

>>51397701
It certainly is the most imposing Sun Titan art, but it still feels a bit too pushed for my tastes.

>>51397781
>>51397701
This one in foil is right up my alley in terms of flare.

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>>51397678
One thing I loved is how someone decided to redo the RW deck, and the best they could do was cut the majority of cards and replace them with a ton of eggs and mana rocks.

>>51397701
I think all the Titans had pretty good alt art.

>>51397949
Still can't believe someone thought these were balanced though.

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had nothing to do so I made this dumb pic

>>51397537
Hopefully Wizards makes Vehicles again so RW can use them well in constructed. I liked them a lot more than I thought I would, hope they come back soon.

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>>51397998
I'll see your dumb pic with another dumb pic.

>>51394508
Wrath was an auto include and damnation didn't feel different enough to warrant a spot irrc

>>51396365
Because it was made by the Boros legion.

So if i want to make all my permanents indestructible shiuld i:
A. Use Avacyn Angel of Hope wich costs 8 mana and is a creature so still dies to exile and -X/-X
B. Use Elspeth Knight Errant wich costa 4 mana and try to rush her -8 and have it for the rest of the game but can be attacked

>>51398670
Why not both?

>>51398670
C. Cast Boros Charm
D. Activate Soul of New Phyrexia
E. Cast Heroic Intervention
F. Mycosynth Lattice + Darksteel Forge

Then cast Obliterate

>>51398670
Imprinting boros charm or heroic intervention on isdron scepter works too.

>>51398730
>Soul of New Phyrexia
Oh shit that's some flavourful card! Going right into my Atraxa infect

>>51393788
Get buttloads of ramp and buttloads of anthem style effects. Playing Marath and getting 7 lands/ramp spells as a starting hand would not be an issue whatsoever.

EDH Discord WHEN

>>51399038
When you make it.

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>>51399038
>>51399110
We already have one, it just never gets put in the OP.

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Ok, sorry for the long list but
Im trying to catalog all deck archetypes, many synergize with each other and are similar but i believe different enough to be called something else.

Aggro
Anti-(Color)
Artifacts
Auratron
Battle-Cruiser
Burn
Chaos
Clones
Colorless
Combat Tricks
Combo
Control
Control Magic
Counters
Counterspells
Cycling
Discard
Doomsday
Draw
Dredge/Self-Mill
Eggs
Enchantments
Energy
Evasion (Evasive Dudes)
Fight
Flicker/Blink/ETB
Fogs
Foodchain
Goodstuff
Group Hug
Group-Slug (Pain)
Hellbent
Infect
Kingmaker
Land-Destruction/MLD
Lands
Lantern Control
Lifegain
Mana Ramp (X spells)
Mill
Morph
Oppression
Pillowfort
Politics
Reanimator
Stasis
Stax
Storm
Superfriends
Taxes
Theme
Tokens
Tribal
Vehicles
Voltron
Wheels

This is what i could come up with in about 20 minutes of brainstorming,
What am i missing?

>>51399255
>fight
>cycling
>lantern control
>morph ( is there even enough unique cards to actually make turning a card up any surprise?)

>>51399413
there are quite afew fight effects, youd be surprised how fun it is to play against one.

cycling is a meme, but ive seen it executed well

lantern control is hard as fuck to accomplish, but possible

morph animar is legit, and ive seen 5c morph work

>>51396685
It's incredibly fun if you like unconventional "build around me" stuff when deckbuilding, and a "play around me" commander with massive value and synergy when playing.

Not as much signature cards but signature puzzle pieces for the deck to work, in order of importance:
>sac outlets to recur stuff with +1/+1 counters on them and avoid exile/bounce/tuck (Viscera Seer, Carrion Feeder, Ashnod's Altar)
>stuff that places +1/+1 counters faster than Dethrone will (Unspeakable Symbol, Feast on the Fallen, anything with Graft holy fuck yes Graft)
>ETB/LTB valuetown (Solemn Simulacrum, Mulldrifter, Flayer of the Hatebound)
>sac synergy (Grave Pact, Grim Haruspex, Warstorm Surge)
>protection for Marchesa or the sac outlets, because spot removal will fuck you up but boardwipes won't (Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Neurok Stealthsuit)

>>51397303
I dont know which scrubs you play with but Meren is already insane as it is

>>51399255
what about Aikido, where you try to use your opponent's stuff and power against them?

>>51399135
Actually, we only have some weird furry circlejerk. We're in dire need of a Discord with actual moderation.

>>51399599
Is Aikido just Control Magic and Clones?

Or is it more copying spells or stealing spells from opponents?

Thanks!

>>51398027
>when it's name in portuguese translates to something like: "Chaos party animal"

>>51399665
As far as I understand it It's control + clones + copy and steal

>>51399699
Ill add it!

>>51399632
What's moderation?

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>>51399514
You didn't mention Undying or Modular?

>>51399677
Well, I guess "party animal" is pretty close to the meaning of "reveler". Since MagicCards doesn't always default to English, I've noticed that German uses "hedonist" instead of "reveler". Wait, hold on... Does the Portugese version of Xenagos translate to "God of Orgies"?

>>51399714
The reason we don't use Reddit.

>>51397459
>tfw blue players
Well Blue sucks in Standard and is struggling in modern. I have no idea why people don't like Blue

>>51397391
talking about giant tribal...

I've been wanting to build either a giant tribal or dwarves/vehicles deck because I love boros and losing. which one is the less shitty and which cards should I run?

>>51399255
RAMP
Tron
Spellslingers

>>51399808
They wouldn't be wrong.

>>51399808
Eh, I don't think Undying/Modular/Persist/Unleash is impressive enough on its own just to get an immortal creature. It's fucking amazing if they do more than just be immortal though, like Geralf's Messenger, Glen Elendra Archmage, Flayer of the Hatebound, Puppeteer Clique and River Kelpie.

Creatures with Graft also fill the role of immortal sac fodder while simultaneously making ETB/LTB creatures saccable. Nothing more satisfying than being able to recur Solemn Simulacrum on each player's turn until your deck doesn't have any basics left in it and you have 20+ lands when everyone else has like 5-7.

>>51399969
Just not fast enough imo.
I think of blue as more reactionary and what it comes down to is it's better to make your opponent answer your threats than try to answer your opponents. In those formats at least.

>>51400185

Oh I know that. I was wondering why EDH seems to dislike Blue to the point of using hosers.

>make proxy of card that I have in a different deck
>start thinking about other cards I don't have but want and are ridiculously expensive

Help me, I'm afraid I'm going to go off the deep end with this

>>51399714
Banning furfags

>>51393411
I play Yidris Living End/Hypergenesis, which is always hilarious.

>>51393915
>>51393886
I am pretty certain that next one is gonna be enchantments.

>>5139959
anon, my suggestion was a nerf to Meren

You what we need in one of the new magic sets /edh/? A sacrifice doubler, for those those sweet gravepact effects.
I was thinking of something like
>3B or 4B
>If a player would sacrifice a creature, he or she instead sacrifices two creatures instead

>>51401068
sorry, this was meant for >>51399593

>>51400281
Only proxy cards you own, have ordered already, or will immediately acquire at the earliest possible instance.

That way you can proxy things you want, but won't turn into that unsleeved kaalia player.

>>51401107
if you're trying to hose creature-based strats: Strionic Resonator
if your trying to hose sac/reanimating GY strats: Angel of Jubilation

>>51401107
Let's just go full nutter butters and make strionic resonator for sac triggers.

Something like "whenever you sacrifice a creature to pay the cost of an effect, that creature counts as one additional sacrifice trigger."

>>51400168
>>51396685
Just finished building marchesa, didn't think any of the graft creatures were good enough to actually put in.

Here's my list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/05-12-16-marchesa-the-black-rose/

I'm probably going to cut out some of the high cost stuff (the seven drops, esp) for low cost stuff that hurts me: Dark Confidant, Mana Crypt, maybe a bad bob or two.

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>>51401289
they already did that, but better

>>51401107
Hmm, maybe I should make a new /ccg/ thread. Let's try...
>If a spell or ability would cause a player to sacrifice one or more creatures, that player sacrifices twice that many creatures instead.
>If a player would sacrifice one or more creatures to cast a spell or activate an ability, that player sacrifices twice that many creatures instead.
Intention is for the first ability to affect the effects of spells and abilities, while the second only doubles the amount to sac. No idea if this is kosher, in part because of how some spells/abilities reference something about the creature, like Momentous Fall.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/cellular-modular-interactivodular/

First tuning pass for my piece of shit arcbound deck. Had to add Grave Troll when I realized I didn't have a 5-drop for my pod chain, then made a bunch of other cuts / replacements.

Known issues:
>actually getting value from big creatures independently of greater good effects
>slow rolling start
>low on answers
Whatchu think lads?

>>51401947
I know if you copy the trigger on something like say hoarding dragon it gives you every card it exiled when it dies, while isocron scepter can cast all cards imprinted on it. So I'd imagine the player casting momentous fall would draw cards equal to both their power and gain life equal to both their toughness.

>>51401107
>>51401947
Anyway, as far as something like Strionic Resonator goes, it probably wouldn't be too hard to make wording for that, but having it so you sac another creature is a whole different story. I have no idea how to get that wording directly because when you copy a spell or ability, you don't copy its costs. Well... actually, now that I think about it, I think I might be able to think of a way to copy a spell so you can sac twice. Like, it would have to trigger on the sac to cast condition, then maybe create a copy of the card the spell becomes in your graveyard and say you can cast the copy without paying its mana cost, which of course means you could sac another creature. No idea how to do this for abilities though. They're always a nightmare to handle, because for spells, the mana costs and additional costs are inherently separate, but it's not so with abilities.

>>51402173
Still hard to tell though because with the dragon and scepter, you're copying an ability. What I'm proposing is just increasing the cost. You could be right though, again, not sure it's kosher.

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>>51397998

>>51402135
You could make room for Jarad or xathrid demon, but that one can be risky. In general I'd recommend sphinx of uthuun because it's a flying fact or fiction.

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>>51402213
>>51402195
>>51401947
OK, this is about as good as I could get it. Wording is clunky, but it's the best I could think of.

>>51402333
nice trips friend, but this isn't the place for that type of discussion

:^)

>>51402333
Back to your containment board, faggot.

>>51402135
>>51402251
Oh and it looks like pentavus would do some work. Pop some counters off it, sac, recur, repeat.

>>51402416
They made an entire board just for custom Magic cards? Alright! Now, which one is it?

>>51402462
It's easy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/out/

>>51402481
Doesn't seem to be the right board. Are you sure that's right?

>>51402538
Anon, you are too pure for this world.

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>>51402556
I realize /edh/ isn't /ccg/, but I couldn't resist after the anon suggested a card effect. The idea is pretty cool though.

>>51402676
Wait, /edh/? Shit, forgot what thread I was on.

What would yall say is a reasonable average CMC for a B/W reanimator deck? Mine is approaching lol4.0 but its a mix between reanimator and enchantments

>>51403072
Depends on what you're using to reanimate and your commander. If it's something like Karlov, you can get away with higher CMCs. If it's Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts or something of similar price, you should trim down a bit.

>>51403180
It's Daxos the Returned

>>51403196
Considering that you'll be paying additional mana each turn to generate tokens, you'll likely want to stay below 3.8. Daxos should be the source of most of your beaters in a deck like that, and using low-cost Auras and the like to rack up EXP should be a priority. You could get away with 4+ if you ran some mana-producing enchantments like Black Market, but I can't really say much else without a list of some sort. The other question is what exactly the creatures you want to reanimate do, and if you can find big creatures that are able to be cheated out with your recursion at bargain prices, go ahead. But keep in mind that if that is the idea behind your recursion package, you'll need sufficient protection like Karmic Justice. You're Orzhov, I'm sure you'll think of something.

>>51403263
main dudes I want to cheese are Yosei, Sidisi/Rune-Scarred, Sheoldred/Elesh Norn, and Iona
Athreos, Karmic Guide/Reveillark, Sheoldred, Sun Titan, Entomb, Unburial Rites, Phyrexian Reclamation, Replenish (sorta), and Debetors' Knell is my reanimator package

Hell's Caretaker would be baller in this deck but it'll have to wait for now.

>>51403370
Considering that most of those creatures have immediate and powerful effects, they could be easily justified. Hell's Caretaker DEFINITELY needs to be here if you want to recur larger creatures more often (Chronicles version is cheapest, btw) to abuse those kinds of effects. You might want to take a look at Alesha or Brago decks to get a better idea of what white has to flicker that can easily slide into your deck.

Make sure to post your list when you're done!

>>51396685
It's pretty fun to make a midrange aggro deck that is just so damn resilient. You can be boardwiped for days and keep all your presence. Leyline and Rip can fuck the deck though.
My list:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-10-16-marchesa-the-black-rose/

>>51401571
I agree with you that all the grafts are bad, if they made just one of them that worked with the deck instead of essentially being a vanilla card with graft on it, it would be a different story though.

Do you feel like you have enough sac outlets? I run even more than you and the times I don't have one on board I feel super weak.

I like your thalakos deciever tech, if my meta slowed down a bit I would run that shit in a heartbeat.

You should run metallic mimic btw. You are already running sage of fables, and the mimic is that but more versatile.

I would also run rhystic study before I looked into Bob effects.

>>51402333
just no

>>51398962
Thanks mate, sorry I'm late to reply

>>51403660
By my count I'm running more sac outlets than you. I'm running Falkenrath Artistocrat and Sadistic hypnotist over you, you're running Yahenni over me. I'm probably taking Crypt Rats out for Yahenni when I can find one. Getting a sac outlet online is probably the top priority starting a game, and I'm usually able to do it. How naked I feel without one usually depends on what colors the decks I'm playing against are.

Thalakos Deceiver usally goes off the turn I play it, as I usually have some way to give it haste.

I'd also rather have a bob than rhystic. Keeps my life down, and I can attack with it.

How has faerie artisans worked out for you? That's another card I've been thinking of adding.

>>51404941
Faerie Artisans is nuts. It's gained some kill on site status in my playgroup. You get everyones etb effects obviously, you have sac fodder for all of your effects, you always have an extra blocker, and finally to top it all off you get to keep your token forever if you sac artisans (which you know you will get back at eot from marchesa).

My only gripe is that it's the artificer type that they just started pushing hard instead of being a wizard.

Also on further inspection on the sac outlets your right. I have more tutors than you and that helps, but now I wonder if should put Phyrexian altar back in...

I wish I could run a list as aggro as yours, and my early decklists where haste enablers and more creatures, but I have stuff like food chain prosh and doomsday zur to fight against so my disruption package had to go way up.

Speaking of which, spellskite is a great way to keep your life total low while protecting your board (and keep in mind you can pay the life even if spells kite can't be a target, the ability will just fizzle) and getting it back eot is just crushing.

Thought-not seer is also great because you can choose who draws the card because it's multiplayer. I have taken out cyclonic rift and rakdos charm with this before, not to mention doing something crushing like exiling a lab man) and it keeps up the beats as an efficient creature.

>>51402729

There's usually a thread for custom stuff here on /tg/ somewhere in the catalog. A new one keeps popping up every other day

But before you go there, first you need to lurk moar

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Can any of you guys who have one post your Uncle Karl decks? I'm trying to optimize mine and seeing what you cool cats have done with him might help me out some.

>>51396037
no. I don't run many instants/sorcs because I run Primal Surge.

Wow... Thread is dead.

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>>51396259
>Scars of Mirrodin
>Middle school

Please tell me you're joking, anon.

>>51407423
We are all getting old anon. If he was in late middle school he should be old enough to drink now.

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>>51407469
>mfw I'm almost 30
I was an adult when Scars came out. I remember it like just yesterday.

>>51398464
>Shilling this hard

Dude. C'mon. You can't seriously believe that right? FtV's are supposed to get cards that are hard to find/reprint a day in the sun. Wrath of God has been in so many sets that there is no way to justify including it in the FtV other than to keep Damnation out so the secondary market is happy.

>>51401571
>>51403660
I really don't understand how you guys aren't getting hosed every single game when you don't have any Graft and so little protection.
For each dangerous creature you slam down, everyone gets a full turn where they can throw any removal at it and it's gone for good. Even stuff with a counter on it only needs to be killed twice.
If you do get an intimidating board state but without hexproof/shroud, any opponent with a boardwipe can just ask the other players for spot removal on Marchesa and while she's in the graveyard, the boardwipe sticks. If you have a sac outlet to get all your creatures into your graveyard before Marchesa, your board state will be vulnerable on every following opponent's turns without any Graft.