/5eg/ Fifth Edition General:

Fighter - Battlemaster
Wizard - Bladesinger
Barbarian - Totem

>>51377371
Bard - Lore
Fighter - Battle Master
Wizard - Abjurer

>>51377371
Paladin - Ancients
Artificer - Alchemist
Wizard - Enchantment (Or maybe conjuration, divination or abjuration or illusion.. It's hard to decide.)

>>51377371
Warlock - Fey
Paladin - Ancients
Ranger - Any

I may or may not have an unhealthy obsession with faeries.

>>51377617
I think we've just found that one single Changeling: The Lost fan.

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Thanks for the help on fluffing my necromancer, lads. I can't wait to try her out next week.

So my latest campaign has spun wildly out of control in the last session and I'm not sure how to work with it.
All my players have been put in this big, multiplane prison that they need to break out of. There are three big gangs that struggle for control of the prison: the dwarves, the giants, and the goblins. Whatever shadowy higher-ups that run the prison pretty much make whatever gang is strongest the guards. Currently it's the giants.
I didn't have a super strong idea of where the story was going, but I was trying to hint that the party should pick a side, help it rise/stay in power, and get its help to escape. What I didn't expect was each player siding with a different gang and hating each other in-character, with constant arguing over which gang is most justified out-of-character. Now they want me to let them fight prison gang-wars against each other, and I don't really know how. Plus a friend who's brand-new to D&D is coming this week, and I have to drop him right in the middle of this chaos and make him pick a side.

Does anybody have any experience running three separate gang-simulator games at once? How fucked am I?

Paladin - Ancients
Monk - Kensai (kind of seems a bit too good to use to me though)
Wizard - Illusionist

>>51377371
Bard- Lore
Rogue - Swashbuckler
Paladin- Vengeance

Paladin - Vengeance
Fighter - Banneret
Wizard - Divination

>>51377746
>(kind of seems a bit too good to use to me though)
You're really overrating it, honestly. It's a bit of a mess but more power to you if you like it and want to play it.

>>51377756
>Fighter - Banneret
Never thought I'd see that

>>51377756
>Fighter - Banneret
What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>51377730
What was the fluffing?

>>51377782
I like Fighters. I like the ability to face. It gives me that without having to multi-class, and alright support abilities in a class that doesn't usually have it.

>>51377371

Ancients Paladin

Totem Barbarian

Tome Warlock.

>>51377676
Never tried it, but in all honesty I might enjoy it...

I custom-tailored my homebrew setting to reasonably accommodate faeries, gothic horror (demons/vampires), and djinn. I definitely know what type of stories I like.

>>51377756
Ignore the haters, you have some seriously good taste. Avengers and warlords are the fukken best.

>>51377676

Hey man don't be like that. It's a good game if you have the right group. I've been running a Ctl game for a while now and me and my mates love it.

>>51377371

Rogue - Mastermind
Paladin - Vengeance
Monk - Open Hand

What can I say, I love scheming villains, edgy heroes, and kung fu dudes.

Is the +1 AC from dual wielding worth it?

>>51377968
Yes. +anything to either hit or AC is always worth it in this game.

>>51377968
Is your Dexterity maxed out or are you wearing plate armor?

There's your answer.

>>51377371
Wizard- Necromancy
Rogue- Mastermind
Paladin- Conquest

>>51377999
Dex and WIS both maxed out

>>51378033
If you're implying you're a monk, get Mobile so you don't have to sit there relying on your AC so much.

So what are everyones interpretations of the different subclasses. I one some of them are pretty straight forward, but I find that players often have a way of putting their own spin on things.

For instance in my mind Oat of rhe Ancients doesn't really have anything to do with nature. When I read the oath I don't think of druids or champions of the grove personally, though I know some people look at it that way.

For me it's about loving life. It's about wanting people to be safe and happy and prosperous. About good company and celebration and enjoying a good fight. Championing light and joy in the world and smiting anything that keeps people from living good productive lives.

>>51378063
I have similar beefs with people saying Oath of Conquest is automatically evil. It's a pragmatic oath that understands that it takes more than winning on the battlefield to end a war.

>>51378049
If I already have Mobile what other good feats are therr

>>51377371
Do small player characters have reduced carrying capacity compared to medium ones? Outside of having the disadvantage with heavy weapons, what other differences does being small make?

>>51378063
I'm trying to think of some spins on eldritch knight that aren't witcher ripoffs.

>>51378090
> I have similar beefs with people saying Oath of Conquest is automatically evil. It's a pragmatic oath that understands that it takes more than winning on the battlefield to end a war.
t. Darth Vader

>>51378106
Depends on your weapon. Do you carry a shortsword? Defensive Duelist can make more of a difference than Dual Wielder.

Do you use a quarterstaff? Polearm Master so you get reaction attacks whenever you're approached is pretty good.

>>51378117
Still trying to think of a way to play a proper blue mage. Eating attacks to get magic. Kinda wanna run it with more abilities as opposed to spells though. Rust monster corrosion and shit.

>>51378127
More like Conan the Barbarian.

>>51378090

I suppose I can understand that, but based on my understanding of history the carrot was honestly often far more effective than the stick. Both have their place of course, but suppression campaigns that relied on force or threat don't have as good of a track record as some other methods. Take the rebellion of the Netherlands in the 1500s for example. Going in and trying to force them to comply and killing those who resisted just pissed the rest off, when the Spanish leadership changed and the new guy started negotiating, bribing, and threatening trade rather than their lives, he got much better results. For a while at least, and then the other europen powers got involved, but that's another story.

>>51378117
Nothing wrong with Witcher ripoffs. My setting features a whole order of them still running around.

But they're warlocks.

>>51377968
Usually no. It'd be good if you stated your build and all that though.

>>51378117

I'd help, but I haven't played Witcher so I really have no idea what you're on about.

So, lads, we're pretty much at a point where we have some substantial amount of content from UAs.

What are your impressions from what's been released from the weekly UAs since they started becoming more frequent?

>>51378189
The culture you're dealing with matters to determine the effectiveness. The conquest approach won't work on European cultures for example, but Middle Eastern cultures tend to act on diplomatic displays as displays of weakness and as an invitation to renew conflict.

>>51378219
Not him, but Witchers are potion-drinking monster hunters who use a little magic to deal with threats.

They're from a Slav-game and book series.

>>51378219
Warrior who uses cantrips while fighting. Hunts monsters for gold.

Is there really no UA this week? I need something to laugh at.

Any game/rules ideas that put emphasis on survival/camping in the wilderness? We're running SKT and my players are excited about stretching their legs after being cooped up in the Phandalin region for a while. They quite enjoyed the traveling and the dangers they posses. I want to capitalize on that and make some fun with it.

So far, they've made a point to get comfy, make camp, make sure people are watching at night. They even take on the first abandoned hut they run into their travels and camp in there to stay safe. They're pretty dedicated to make comfy camps too. It's pretty engrossing as a DM to help them build this.

What is the best class for an agile, lightly armored warrior archetype? Monks fit a kind of different niche with their ki and unarmed strikes and rogues, even swashnucklers, seem to be very subpar in their melee proves. Am I missing something? Is there a dex based build for fighter that uses non-heavy armor or something?

>>51378224
Overall? 4/5 stars. Some solid ideas. Some mechanics that miss the mark. I have a trove of 300ish homebrew I've collected over the last year-ish and only 5% of it is even remotely decent. What I'm driving at is that the UA is better than nearly all homebrew.

Tell me your character's race+class+archetype and character concept, and I'll tell you what item I'd make for it if I was your DM.

If your concept involves a god, tell me the god's portfolio. If you're using something that's not official or UA, give me a description of it.

>>51378108
>Do small player characters have reduced carrying capacity compared to medium ones?
No, small and medium creatures have the same carrying capacity based on their strength. Tiny halves it, and for large and each step above you double it

> Outside of having the disadvantage with heavy weapons, what other differences does being small make?
You can't shove or grapple large creatures. You can move through a large creature's space (difficult terrain though). I think that's about it.

What makes rangers worse at melee then fighters and paladins?

>>51378224
They're pretty okay. I'm annoyed at all of those fey and undead killer subclasses, but forge clerics were okay. Artificers were okay. Paladins were okay.
Warlord when?

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Made a new (hopefully much better) version of this with /tg/'s great advice.

Lay it on me: why does this suck?

>>51378347
You can be a fighter using studded leather and finesse/ranged weapons. You can build around two-weapon fighting, Shield Master, Crossbow Expert, and/or Sharpshooter.

>>51378351
Eladrin fey-tome-pact lock. On a mission from the summer/Seely court and Titania to skill up until I can help her put a stop to the dark huntmasters (mortals not lords) or the Unseely Court.

>>51378365
Being forced into two weapon fighting, the worst fightign style of all.

>>51378379
One could argue that the Warlord already exists in the form of the Battlemaster fighter, Purple Dragon Knight fighter, or Crown paladin.

I'm not sure what people want the Warlord to do that those options don't already do, aside from have "Warlord" as its name.

>>51378365
Fewer attacks and no smite, respectively

>>51378351
A warlock who was a former wizards apprentice, but was more interested in the darker stuff. He naively made a deal with a succubus for power, thining that he can eventually twist power he gains for good. Ultimately, he wishes to enslave his teacher and be able to summon tons of succubi.

>>51378351
Dwarven forge cleric of Lord of Cinder (death, light, forge). Once upon a time, a dead god appeared her and informed her that a great destiny awaits her, and she'll make him great again.
So she said: "Er-r-r-r, 'at soonds guid, Ah guess".

>>51378351
Variant Human Lore Bard. Was a street Urchin receiving training from a Wizard until he realized I was channeling Bard magic instead of actually following his traditions, so he blacklisted me and threw me out. Now I'm questing to become a better mage and prove myself to him / rub my success in his smug stupid face.

>>51378401
> Battlemaster fighter
Not warlord enough.
> PDK
Sucks ass.
> Crown paladin
Is a paladin.

>>51378295
Enforce encumbrance. My advice is ignore item weights and use the "slot based" encumbrance rules from that RPG I can't remember that hopefully someone will post. If you decide to track food/water, abstract it heavily.

Consider using one day short rests / one week long rests. It helps adapt the "4-5 fights per day" resource design of 5e to traveling.

Bring the world to life. Your regions are the campaign's dungeons. Entering the spooky goblin woods should be as dangerous as the spooky goblin cave, and to camp in the spooky goblin woods is to invite spooky goblin ambushes. They're behind enemy lines, hiding from spooky goblin patrols, and stumbling upon spooky goblin war camps. There should be interesting things tempting them to investigate, at the cost of time and resources.

Always give the party meaningful choices. For example, the dangerous but quick route, or the long but safe route; an exposed camp in the open, or spending resources clearing out a cave. If both routes are equally fast or equally dangerous, the choice isn't meaningful. If they're just going to face one random encounter every day either way, the choice isn't meaningful.

Attack the party's resources. They should not be walking through the Death Mountains without becoming very aware that they will not be able to get in a rest nor stop to forage. They can't just set up camp wherever and whenever they want, nor get food wherever and whenever they want.

>>51378219

See Matt Mercer's Blood Hunter. The Order of the Mutant option is literally just a D&D made Witcher.

>>51377371

Rogue - Thief
Fighter - Battlemaster
Cleric - War

I'm kind of surprised I keep getting a lot of fast responses when I do this.

>>51378391
A silver spear with a pole made of hardened, braided vines. You can use it as an arcane focus and it works with Shillelagh. Once per short rest when you make an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you may add a d4 to the d20 roll after seeing the roll but before the DM tells you the result of the roll. The die size increases to match twice your proficiency (i.e. proficiency 3 = d6, proficiency 6 = d12)

>>51378407
A wand carved from an incubus horn. You may add 1 wizard spell as a bonus warlock spell to your list of known spells. You may retrain this spell to another wizard spell of your choice when you gain a level in warlock. The spell must be of an equal or lower level to your pact magic slots.

>>51378440
A holy symbol that constantly trails ash but never diminishes in size despite the appearance of crumbling away. You know Chill Touch and Green-Flame Blade as bonus cleric cantrips.

>>51378449
A stolen bauble from the wizard's workshop. During a short rest, you can recover a number of expended spell slots with a combined total spell level equal to half your bard level. You cannot recover a spell slot above 5th level with this item. Once you use this item, you cannot use it again until dawn of the next day.

>>51377371
Monk- Way of Long Death
Ranger - revised Hunter UA
Druid - Circle of Land Forest

I am a cleric. I am a melee cleric. Is there any good way for me to get one of those SCAG cantrips and be good at them?

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>>51377371

Warlock - Fey Tome
Paladin - Ancients Oath
Cleric - Nature

What can I say, I like trees.

>>51377371
>Post your top three classes. Then - your favourite subclass for each.

Fighter - Battlemaster
Paladin - Oath of Devotion
Cleric - Life

>>51378380

that 7th level ability seems like a bit much - that makes the entire party super stealthy, like pass without a trace but free and permanent

>>51377371
Paladin - Devotion (because fuck you edgelords and cowards who are afraid to stand for something)
Wizard - Evoker
Ranger - Hunter

>>51378592
Magic Initiate. Booming Blade doesn't use a casting ability score at all.

Arcana Cleric can access all the SCAG cantrips as bonus cleric cantrips if you want the ones that use casting ability scores.

>>51378351
A Human ranger inquisitor who has been kidnapped from his own plane of existence, and is now trying to hold onto his faith while respecting the extremely strict religious laws of his newfound home.
His faith was the church of Avacyn. My DM grabbed the Innistrad plane shift without knowing really what it was.

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>>51378621

I feel you, I didn't know how far to push that one.

You figure it stands alone with just the no-armor-penalty and darkvision? Or would it need something else?

Why does 5E sell so well?

>>51378658
That sounds more balanced

>>51378711
Because it isn't 4E

>>51378640
Ever-blazing Torch (requires attunement) - As a bonus action, you may cause this torch to catch fire. The torch never diminishes no matter how long it burns. An attuned user may also use a bonus action to cause the fire to stop. The item sheds bright light in a 20 ft. radius and dim light for another 20 ft. beyond that. Any undead within the radius of the bright light have disadvantage to attack rolls against you while you maintain your hold on the torch.

>>51378711
Because it's marketing team didn't try to offend the playerbase on purpose, unlike the last time.

>>51378658
>>51378714

yeah that would work better. the advantage on stealth makes the whole party - tanks included - able to travel silently, essentially.

>>51378711
Nostalgia + momentum + social gaming

Same reason 40k refuses to die under the weight of its own incompetence. (I am not implying 5e is shit like 40k)

>>51378716
>>51378732
Could you please elaborate?
>>51378767
What makes it different from other editions, then?

>>51378785
It takes the best of all the editions and puts them together cohesively. Veteran and new players can easily sit down and play. It's easy to add complexity to the system.

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>>51378714
>>51378753

Removed it, threw a ribbon on there to round it out. Figured this option could use at least one ribbon.

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Warlock-Fiend Tome
Warlock-Undying Tome
Wizard-Necromancy

>>51378785
There was a disconnect between wizards and the playerbase when they pumped out 4th edition, and now at this point it's a meme.

Personally thought it was "fine" but so is vanilla ice cream. Which is what 4E feels like through and through.

Can't really blame Wizards too much though for wanting to seriously limit character ability after looking at some of the shenanigans that chucklefucks got up to in 3.5

>>51378856
>Can't really blame Wizards too much though for wanting to seriously limit character ability after looking at some of the shenanigans that chucklefucks got up to in 3.5

Be fair, WotC printed all that shit with little or no QC. Of course people were going to use it.

>>51378856
>Can't really blame Wizards too much though for wanting to seriously limit character ability
The only things you really can't do in 4e is:
End a battle singlehandedly, or in a single action
Raise a disposable army innately
Get a stat over 30
The first 2 are there to keep individuals from invalidating the group, the last is because similar to 2e, the game recognizes limits that surpassing them puts you on the level of deities.
Unless there is something in particular you were referring to?

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>>51378869
You ain't gonna hear no defense from me. Them boys we're geekin.

>walking around in a cellar
>find a tool room full of fucking hammers and shit
>take all of them
>group groans
>turn a few corners
>SKELETONS ATTACK
>everyone has a sword or a bow
>i've got a bag with 20 hammers in it
yeah
who's groaning now fuckers

>>51377986
Wrong. The ASI is a better option. Gives the +1 to more stuff.

>>51378831

the whisper thing seems alright

>>51378898

My biggest issues playing/DMing 4e for easily 5+ years:

>Welcome to combat! You'll be here for two hours. If there are minions, you'll only be here for one and a half hours.
>Congratulations! It's your turn! Which combat button do you press? You pressed the button? Turn over, then.
>In combat, you have about a twenty different buttons to press! Out of combat, you have like three, tops.

>>51378224
I'm glad, my group has been option starved for months. We tend to run a lot of side campaigns so have played through all official material alraedy.

>>51378985
>Congratulations! It's your turn! Which combat button do you press? You pressed the button? Turn over, then.
This is no different from 3.5 / 5E.
>In combat, you have about a twenty different buttons to press! Out of combat, you have like three, tops.
Martials don't even have three buttons in either situation in 3/5E, and if you're not letting anyone in 4E use their combat abilities with terrain targets to fucking teleport everywhere or do whatever the fuck, you've messed up.

>>51377371

Artificer-Alchemist
Fighter-Battlemaster
Wizard-Diviner

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What are the best rituals for a warlock to try and pick up early?

>>51378985
>Welcome to combat! You'll be here for two hours
Not different from 3.5, outside of all players having more options built in.
>You pressed the button?
Completely ignores tactical elements or team harmony. A good group works with each other.
>Out of combat, you have like three, tops
I didn't have "buttons" to use in 2e either, so fortunately not having ways to skip roleplay isn't an issue to me.
I just got done with a 4 session oneshot with a group of rookies I called 4E D&D: Prepare to Die Edition, and I had 4 pc deaths in 4 sessions, on top of a shitton of rp.

>>51378139
hackslashmaster.blogspot.co.nz/2015/04/updating-blue-mage-for-5th-edition.html

>>51378985
Anything you could do in other editions could also be done in 4e. All 4e did was add superpowers to everyone. No options were removed. The notion that it's somehow dumbed down when it comes to world interaction is bullshit.

>>51378831
Looking much better than yesterday. Shadowblade feels a little bit wordy and complicated. The description of Living Nightmare is a bit at odds with the abilities gained. If you are invisible then you aren't a shadowy figure (even if the creature you hit can see you).

>>51378898
In particular for me I thought it was fine that they gave everyone there own set of moves to use. Balanced out classes fairly well.

What I couldn't get into was eventually builds just became about combining feats and magical items which made it into "how much can I afford" as opposed to "what can I do with what I have."

It's a bit of a shit thing for me, but in 5E you technically could go from 1-20 with "longsword"

>>51379107

>>You can do anything in 4E you could in 3.5
>>Do you even destroy Moons brah?

>>51378501
I'm planning on using a slot system (9+str mod slots). I think it will add real tension to away missions with minimal fuss. I do have each "kit" do a bit more, like rations, torches, healer pack, are all "infinite" but each takes up a slot.

Can I do some cheeky prestidigitation shennanigans in a combat encounter? Help my newb mind with some ideas.

>>51379105
>hackslashmaster.blogspot.co.nz/2015/04/updating-blue-mage-for-5th-edition.html
Maybe not reading too into it, but is there a limit on how many abilities/spells you can learn in here?

Also sonuvabitch never thought to tie it to monks.

>>51379185
Nevermind I found it.

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>>51379110
>Shadowblade

That's one I looked at, thought about how I could possibly streamline it, and finally shrugged and kept going. It's a little wordy, but it kind of feels like all the words have to be there.

>The description of Living Nightmare is a bit at odds with the abilities gained. If you are invisible then you aren't a shadowy figure

The intent is to have you be all shadowy-nightmary to the individual(s) that can see you, but point taken. I'll try and specify a little bit.

>>51378347
>Am I missing something?
Yes, the fact that rogues are actually pretty fuckin legit. But shadow monks and dex fighters are certainly solid options. Even a dex pally, depending on your overall concept.

>>51378350
People tend to miss that. Even the awful UAs were not THAT awful (cleric UA notwithstanding) and the hit/miss ratio is better than what most people here shit out on a regular basis. The two-man team producing them alongside their other duties deserves less hate than they get around here.

>>51378716
You're right, it isn't innovative, doesn't have good combat, and watered down everything to the point you're practically freeform.

>>51378711
The lowered standards of its userbase.

>>51379148
That's why I use a modified chart of inherent enhancement bonuses to attack, damage, and defenses.
A player in my game has used only the sword they took from a fallen comrade they failed to save since level 2.
He is now level 9. I plan on spicing it up with a blessing from his god for his loyalty to brethren.
>>51379219
>>51379228
Hey, hey, you twats, lets not throw stones.
While I have my issues with how 5e came about, it's perfectly serviceable for the game types it was made to do, so keep your bullshit nannery to yourselves.

>>51378815
>Best of all systems
Thats a good pitch there, Harry. But I'm afraid you won't be getting the job.

>>51377371
Monk - Open Palm

Wizard - Diviner

Bard - Lore

>>51378975
Way to be a complete moron. Nobody asks about a +1 to AC if they haven't already maxed out their dex (and wisdom, in this case, as you'd know if you'd bothered to read the fucking thread). So assuming anon already maxed his dex (which would also max his attack), yeah, a +1 to AC is worth a feat if you see a lot of combat. Which, again, anon clearly does because he asked the question in the first place.

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>>51379067
Bumping? For advice?

>>51379272
>Nobody asks about a +1 to AC if they haven't already maxed out their dex

I've had some really dumb players, anon. I had to stop running FLGS campaigns because the cream did not rise to the top. There was no cream at all.

>>51379219
The thing 4e fans don't seem to get is that it was so "innovative" it no longer felt like D&D to many players.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy 4e. But it absolutely does not feel like "the next edition of the same game" in the way 2e and 5e do. Even 3e is not as huge of a change as 4e once you get past the presentation differences.

So I guess my point is calling 4e "innovative" isn't scoring you any points because it's kind of the issue.

>>51379309
I assume people are not retarded until they demonstrate otherwise. Anon did not demonstrate otherwise, and so got the benefit of the doubt.

>>51379067
Unseen Servant and Find Familiar come to mind.

Identify and Comprehend Languages are also pretty legit.

>>51379301
Depends if you have a cleric or a wizard in your party.
Identify, unseen servant, comprehend languages, find familiar, detect magic. Are all decent for low levels

>>51378196
Warlock works way better for the Witcher concept. Hell, if the books hadn't been written in Polish the they might have been called Warlocks in the first place. (Wiedzmin, Witch-Man.)

I am level 1 war cleric. Stats are str 14, dex 10, con 12, int 10, wis 16, cha 12.
I want to max out my wisdom with ASIs first, and THEN I go for strength. Right?

>>51379330
>con 10
That's going to be really, really rough.

>>51379301
Identify goes a long way.
Comprehend languages and detect magic are also winners.

Could one hypothetically turn a demon good?

>>51379378
If you did so, it would no longer be a demon. It would become something else.

>>51378351

A paladin of Lathander purged a fiend worshiping cult that was plaguing a nearby town. When the battle was done he discovered a new born babe, a tiefling. He took the child with him and returned to the monastery, where the child was raised. Now the child is grown and ventures out into the world to spread the light of Lathander and beat back the darkness.

Tiefling Paladin, eventual Oath of the Ancients

Lathander's portfolio is creativity, dawn, renewal, birth, athletics, spring, self-perfection, vitality and youth.He favors those who dispel the undead and blesses those who plant new life. Lathander is also the god called upon to bless birth and fertility related ceremonies.

>>51379328
It depends on which edition is your favored one.
I lean towards 2e, and 4e takes a lot of style cues from 2e while applying modern design theorem and tighter math that was made to be easier to understand, and a unified format for all players.
I think if you had a lot of experience with games in general, and not just D&D, it didn't feel "innovative", but modern, like D&D finally decided to get on the ball most other games had long since discovered that following design ideas from the late 90's was NOT the one true path.

>>51377371
Paladin - Treachery
Druid - Moon, but Twilight is fine too
Warlock - Undying (not the sunlight one)
I might possibly absolutely 100% be an edgelord.

The runners-up are Eldritch Knight fighters, Valor bards and basically every other paladin oath.

>>51379387
What would it become? All this talk of witchers and warlocks has me thinking a character that wants to try to study to convert one to good

>>51379272
>Obviously I ment always as in when hes already maxed his AC!!¡¡ jeeeez.

>>51378224
2.5/5

Most of what they release is a 2/5, the only virtue of which is better formatting and slightly better balance compared to dnd wiki.

But maybe 1/6 archetypes released actually have such good potential that I'm willing to overlook the flaws and give it a 5/5.

>>51379392
A holy symbol of a rising sun inscribed in a golden circle, hanging from a silver chain to be worn around your neck. Your horns take on a polished silver hue while attuned to the symbol.

You may use Channel Divinity 1 additional time before needing a short rest. Your racial Hellish Rebuke deals radiant damage instead of fire damage, and you may use it a number of times per day equal to your proficiency modifier.

>>51379328
The thing that dnd defenders don't seem to get is that saying "sacred cows are the point of dnd" will never convince anyone who didn't already hate 4e.

For me, dnd is whatever wizards releases, and I'll judge the edition based on its merits, not is adherence to archaic tropes.

>>51378566
>A stolen bauble from the wizard's workshop. During a short rest, you can recover a number of expended spell slots with a combined total spell level equal to half your bard level. You cannot recover a spell slot above 5th level with this item. Once you use this item, you cannot use it again until dawn of the next day.

Neat.

>>51379417
I'm not sure, and it's just my interpretation anyway. Alignment is something fundamental to fiends and celestials, so imo they cease to be what they were when they change alignment. A fallen angel is a familiar concept. An ascended demon might look a bit like a demon in the way a fallen angel looks a bit like an angel, but there would have to be something very different about it.

>>51379510

ok that is pretty awesome. I really want this to be a thing now...

>>51379539
Believe me, if professional DM was a thing, I'd do it. I have more ideas for stuff than I'll ever be able to use.

>>51379328
>I assume
That's some elite gamist talk right der.

>>51379548
You should do some Fiver shit. Five bucks, and I'll write an encounter for your group.

>>51379398
I don't really see that. I've played a LOT of 2e (years of it) and I don't see almost anything in common between 2e and 4e.

2e had noncombat classes; in 4e, everyone participates in combat with roughly equal effectiveness. 2e had magic items be optional and rare, 4e assumes you get them continuously and consistently. 2e had varied and highly-specific weapon and nonweapon skills with varying degrees of proficiency, 4e has a small skill list and only 3 weapon proficiency classifications. 2e had deadly low levels and save-or-die/save-or-suck mechanics. 4e has neither.

Maybe I'm missing something, but they feel like very, very different games to me.

>>51379431
He fucking is. Read the damn thread before running your jizz can.

>>51379511
It was presentation. The clean format turned people off. Specifically those who call powers "samey", same type that think apples and oranges are "samey" cuz there both fruits.

> 4rries STILL don't understand why their edition is despised, and 5e is popular
Fucking delusional.

>>51379594
Apples don't have any selenium so they are objectively shit.

>>51379593
I said similar in style, not mechanics.
The "feel" was the same, in how the world was presented, how the party was presented, how the players were supposed to approach the DM and how the DM was supposed to approach the game.

>>51379622
Seriously.

If 4e was just not called D&D, there was no gap in support between 3.5 and 5e, and 4e fans weren't constantly trying to shit all over every other edition of D&D, it might have a few more fans and still have some official support.

>>51378501
Fug I've been trying to homebrew a decent slot based system but it's such a pain in the ass because of how quickly it can get too complicated.

Some of the PHB item weights make no sense to me either. How the fuck is a generic book 5 pounds unless its an encyclopedia? Oh but a spellbook, which is usually depicted as a heavy tome, is 3 pounds? k wiztards.

>>51379622
To be honest, I enjoy 5th Edition quite a bit, but after a few months of DMing it, I still prefer 4th, if only because it was super easy to DM. You had tools and tables for everything.
I kinda miss that in 5th. Never really did like reskinning mobs, and it's a pain in the ass to design boss fights that are neither too easy or too hard on the players.

>>51379593
Here's the original post in the reply chain.
>>51377968
It doesn't state his AC is maxed. The reply doesn't either. But hey, if he did fine, don't get your panties in a wad. Given non-maxed dex, an asi is superior, bud.

>>51379511
I'm the anon you were responding to.
I see what you're getting at, but I also don't entirely agree. Wizards can (and have) publish lots of non-D&D product and there's nothing wrong with that. But for many people (and I'm not necessarily including myself), there are certain pillars of what makes a game "D&D."

Stuff like diverse class mechanics, cleric and wizard varieties that affect their flavor and playstyle (spheres/domains and schools, respectively), relatively simple combat choices (I didn't say all the pillars were necessarily positive), "noob-friendly" options, and other such things that were to various degrees missing from 4e alter the feel of the game more than adjusting mechanics and math do. In this case, there are players for whom it altered the feel too much. And they're not right or wrong, because it's a largely semantic argument anyway. So when they say "4e isn't D&D hurr durr," really they mean "it didn't scratch the exact same itch I'm used to satisfying with D&D products and that left me a bit frustrated," which is a legitimate complaint even if they don't put it in a particularly eloquent way.

>>51379557
Ok

>>51379417
It would be whatever alignment-based creature matches its new alignment (angel, archon, eladrin, modron, rilmani, or slaad.)

Be forewarned, though, no amount of rhetoric will make an alignment-based creature change alignment, just like no amount of cool island tunes will turn a fire elemental into a water elemental. Fiends are MADE of evil, and the only way they can change is if something physically changes their substance. This is even true of angels who fall: devils fell not because anyone told them a really dank meme, but because evil physically seeped into them while they were fighting off endless waves of demons so that other good beings would be undisturbed by them.

>>51379655
Should have been called D&D Tactics. Gets the point across so much better.

>>51379682
Turns out what everyone actually wanted was D&D You Better Let Me Use This Spell In This Bizarre Way Because Magic And Physics But Fuck That Fighter He Can't Push That Bookcase That's Bullshit Make Him Roll

>>51379531
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAwpBwO54IU

>>51379593
But your reply
>>51377986
Was made before anything about max ac or dex was stated...
Could it be you were called out for being a jackals and are leaning on the reply AFTER yours for Maximum Damage control?!

>>51379387
Naw, it would look fundamentally like a demon but with some changed features.

>>51379622
Get it right, anon, we know why 5e is popular, and that is because it superficially resembles 3e, despite lifting 4e mechanics wholesale and using 2e design logic.
>>51379678
The issue with that complaint is that it boils down to "this isn't the D&D I grew up with", and to me that is bullshit, because I played 3e when it came out, even though it basically scrapped every design mote that came before outside spell slots and fluff.

>>51379666

It is possible to borrow things you know, with some minor changes.

>>51379720
Huh? 4e was the No Improv Allowed edition.

Not to sound like a minmaxer but what are my best options for playing a character that's an Erik the Phantom or Edmond Dantes like renaissance man kind of character? 13/14 in everything, Bard/Rogue?

>>51379644
I guess I disagree on that as well. 2e was designed for parties of 5-8 people, who would often be playing duplicates of the same class because only 4 were accessible to the majority of players. Roleplaying was expected to differentiate characters more than mechanics. The games were often expected to be deadly, but the world was relatively civilized; there was a stronger swords-and-sorcery, gritty feel to it, where NPC humans/demihumans were often as big of a problem as dragons.

4e is designed for 4-6 players. It is rare for players in a group to run duplicates of a class, and in fact most parties will only have 1-2 players in each of 4 roles. No two characters handle the same (which is nice). The world is wild and monsters/monstrous humanoids are the primary enemies. Players are strongly expected to be heroic, and player death is completely avoidable in the vast majority of cases, even in low levels. The monster manual contained maybe 4 good-aligned creatures, and even metallic dragons were considered neutral at best.

DMing is worlds different. In 4e, traps are part of encounters, skill success depends as much on DM-set DC as on player skill (DCs were literally nonexistent before 3e), and DMs are encouraged to think of the game as a series of tightly-designed encounters (again, not necessarily bad but certainly different).

So I guess I still disagree.

>>51379763
>despite lifting 4e mechanics wholesale
Stay in denial. Your game was shit, nobody liked it, and now it's right where it belongs - on the garbage dump of history.

>>51379679
I just like the "Bad guy turns good guy" trope. How would one physically infect a demon with good juju?

>>51379782
But it wasn't.

>>51379800
With a big needle for starters.

>>51379673
>>51379738
As I said, I assumed anon wasn't retarded. And then it turned out I was right. So I have no idea why you're still trying to portray anybody else as a dumbass.

>>51379763
>>51379796
>What is death saving throws
>What is binary skill proficiency
>What is a meaningful armor weight classification

If you think 5e didn't lift the good stuff out of 4e, you haven't played at least one of them.

>>51379782
Hmm, my group must be playing it wrong then.

>>51379800
You can't just rape a demon with goodness. You've gotta chain 'em up in a dungeon and pos them all day until they're mindbroken and begging for your holy instruction.

>>51379782
You appear to have bought into the "4e doesn't allow roleplaying" propaganda despite all evidence to the contrary. I will pray for you.

>>51379850
>Deus vult intensifies.

>>51379787
The problem with choosing breadth over depth is that you're really only as strong as your best thing. Choose a single thing you want to do in combat and build your character based on that. Everything else is just backup for emergencies. For example, if you want to primarily fight with your sword, do not choose a primary spellcaster (no, not even a bladesinger or bladelock.) Conversely, if you want to be mainly a spellcaster, own that decision and don't half-ass it. If you choose a bard or someine else with healing, be to help your friends up from 0HP even if you aren't in the mood for it.

>>51379837
Appeal to probability – is a statement that takes something for granted because it would probably be the case (or might be the case).

Dats sum gud Formal Fallacy rite der.

>>51379837
Don't forget healing surg- I mean hit dice.

>>51379947
I really wish it had lifted some of 4e's healing mechanics. I really like how it resolved the disconnect with healing spells that would bring hitpoints out of the realm of being just a mechanic (how a high level character receiving a low-level cure spell gets fuck-all from it, whereas a low-level character can be brought back from the brink of death).

>>51377735
In my experience, PvP is a group killer. Avoid getting the players siding Against each other, if you can: this might very well be the end of your group otherwise.

As for how you should do it... I think there is no other way but talking to them all OoC about it. Keep it civil and do not take shit from any of your players: if you let them walk all over you, the game will get unfun very... very fast.

>>51379837
Sadly it didn't lift the interesting and mechanically right combat.

>>51380077
Go play a bloody wargame.

>>51380077
>interesting and mechanically right

That's a funny way of saying "I decided my turn a full 40 minutes before combat got to me."

>>51379807
>>51379848
>>51379864

>Fighter is trying to learn "Push Bookcase"
>But fighter can't learn more than four moves!

>>51380165
There was a page in the DMG dedicated to improvising actions.

>>51379937
It's not a fallacy if I'm not claiming it's the indisputable proof in a formal setting. If someone asks a question but leaves things vague, what would you assume if not the most probable event?
Not assuming that is like not asking a girl out because she might be a lesbian, even though probability says she's straight.

>>51379947
Of course! And action surge, and second wind.

>>51380077
It should have gone in the opposite direction. Back to OSR style combat where things were expected to be resolved quickly so you can get back to exploration and problem-solving.

>>51379800
>current year
>using the word "trope"

Seriously, though, if all you want to do is redeem a villain, pick literally any kind of villain other than a fiend. Cosmological evil is kind of a one-way street. Also maybe just focus on playing your own character instead of presuming to control the long-term behavior of an important NPC.

>>51380151
I sunny know what game you played, but 4e was great for varied combat since it was so positioning reliant, and featured situational combos between various positioning reliant effects.

5e is the one where your turn is decided for you before you even get to play.

If you're a caster, you determine if you're willing to use spell slots. If not then you move backwards is possible and cast your damage cantrip.

If you're a martial, you just stand still and attack as many times as your multi attack will allow.

>>51377735
What the fuck kind of multiplane prison has goblins

That's like improsning Dobby in Azkaban if he ever did anything jail-worthy.
Why not just kill the goblins or put them in a normal jail?

What's the point of making the prisoners themselves the guards? It's nice if it's self-running, but why would the prisoners themself also guard themselves? What's the point of guards at all in this case?


Also inb4
>new guy comes along and unites everybody into a happy new era through the power of song and dance

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>Warlock pacts are now invocations and not sub-classes

How does this change the class?

>>51378380
Good for a laugh

>>51377676
>C:tL
>not C:tD
Shit taste famalam.

>>51380279
>Constructive Criticism: The Post

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>>51380203
>exploration and problem-solving
You mean playing mother-may-I with the DM to see if you get to finish the dungeon or if you fall into a ridiculous instant-death trap that the thief only had a 20% chance of noticing (and nobody else has any chance of noticing at all.)

>>51380258
The pact boons were never your fucking subclass you mongoloid, your Patron choice is your subclass.

>>51380249
In both 5e and 4e, combat is very reactive to what the monsters do. The scenario you set up there is one in which the DM was very unimaginative with the monsters' turn.

In 4e, though, the basic thrust is always:

>If melee, attempt to flank, use daily or encounter if you give a shit, at-will if it's trash

>If ranged, attempt AoE if you can, or single-target if you can't

>If leader, either heal if someone needs it, shoot off a sub-standard attack, or nudge the person to your left and tell them to do extra stuff

You can have as many classes or roles as you want, but this was always how it broke down.

Boy it sure is fun when a 5e thread is taken over by 4e discussion.
Take it to another thread, already.

>>51380347
Yeah, you know, the collaborative social activity in which the DM is expected to be a fair arbitrator because I'm not an autistic cretin that's incapable of cooperating with someone or trusting someone.

Also

>I don't understand how thief skills work.

Those are chances above and beyond what your normal person gets, Everyone can sneak, everyone can notice shit, everyone can climb, etc. thieves can just do it an incredible fashion.

>>51380258
Why does that warlock have boobs?

>>51380258
So you can take multiples, or you can take none at all? That's retarded. Every warlock needs exactly one patron.

>>51380399
So if a level one thief has like a 10% chance to notice traps, what hope could a non-thief possibly have?

>>51380384
Imaginative DMS make everything better, but they're given far more tools to work with.

It's worth noting that even deliberately breaking down 4e to as simple as you possibly could, to the point of inaccuracy no less, you still described something more variable and mechanically interesting than 5e.

>>51380409
Because the artist tried to make him buff but forgot to space his pecs reasonably or give him a collar bone.

>>51380395
They know they can't keep a 4e thread going.

Preface: I'm the DM

I feel like after doing a few good adventures, my group is kinda just going from point A to point B and so on and so forth.

We've been delving into some of the players backstory, driving us forward to do whatever to help them complete personal quests, but I can't for the life of me come up with a major story / big event that lasts more than a few sessions.

What started off as a series of adventures that have wrapped up, has now turned into a sandbox where the players are driving the events. Everyone seems to be having fun, but some of the players have expressed concern that they're just wandering around at this point, with no real purpose.

Any tips?

>>51380435
I can't remember off the top of my head, I do recall a mechanic for it, probably rolling under something on a d6. Alternatively, you were expected to do shit like poke suspicious areas with 10 foot poles and such.

But that's kind of beside the point, as you're making a mistake in assuming I just want a complete return to OSR mechanics. If I wanted that, there's already Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, etc. I think many mechanical changes made in later editions were good ideas. What I don't think was a good idea was the tendency towards making the game all about going from set-piece encounter to set-piece encounter. I think combat should be treated as a diversion and a means to an end that is preferably avoided. The game doesn't really facilitate that this well these days, because monsters tend to be designed to have enough staying power to make the combat a noteworthy experience.

>>51380484
That's because touhoufag is a fucking optimization nazi and *apparently* his word is law in /4eg/.

>>51380399
Your description of old-school D&D doesn't mesh at all with the adventures that were actually written in that era, nor with accounts of how the game was actually played. D&D was at its least collaborative in the old days. There wasn't much opportunity to roleplay or help build the world when you left the dungeon so seldom that even fighting monsters outdoors was considered a radical act.

Also, I'm looking at the AD&D 1e PHB right now, and it doesn't say dick about thieves adding their skills to some kind of innate percentage that everyone gets. If you're not a thief, you can neither see traps nor hide nor climb walls, nor can you even hear noise if there is any kind of doubt whether you heard it (which means that thieves only have to Move Silently to hide from other thieves, I guess.)

>>51377571
lol anon i think you have a very good dm.

>>51380509
That sounds like a problem that could be mostly fixed by a certain style of dming.

>>51380509
If you have to roll a 6 on a d6 (or a 1, I can't remember,) that's a 16 2/3% chance. Some thief skills start at 10%. So a normal person could be better at thieving than a first-level thief.

>>51380438
>It's worth noting that even deliberately breaking down 4e to as simple as you possibly could, to the point of inaccuracy no less, you still described something more variable and mechanically interesting than 5e.

Them's opinions, bro.

Even ignoring things like a rogue's Cunning Action and the Battlemaster fighter's Maneuvers, you're still looking at options with more varied utility and obvious depth of meaning in 5e than the sort of "I use my move action to make the path behind me difficult terrain for no reason" stuff in 4e.

>>51380560
>Your description of old-school D&D doesn't mesh at all with the adventures that were actually written in that era, nor with accounts of how the game was actually played. D&D was at its least collaborative in the old days. There wasn't much opportunity to roleplay or help build the world when you left the dungeon so seldom that even fighting monsters outdoors was considered a radical act.

You collaborate between DM and Player to not be a massive dickhead and keep the game moving, you goddamn moron. The DM is expected to fairly arbitrate and you're expected to keep the game moving by not bitching at his judgments needlessly.

>Also, I'm looking at the AD&D 1e PHB right now, and it doesn't say dick about thieves adding their skills to some kind of innate percentage that everyone gets. If you're not a thief, you can neither see traps nor hide nor climb walls, nor can you even hear noise if there is any kind of doubt whether you heard it (which means that thieves only have to Move Silently to hide from other thieves, I guess.)

It's one of those things that's never expressly mentioned, and generally poorly explained. But players sneaking up on things still get the standard surprise chance for encounters, and still get to roll the standard check to see if they're surprised if something sneaks up on them. If you want a better explanation of it, go ask the OSR general. Because as I said here >>51380509 I don't want a return to OSR mechanics (games already exist for that) just a return to the mindset of combat being a diversion and a means to an end, rather than the express focus of the game (which is something that started in 2e with the story-driven adventures that often oriented around climactic showdowns with bad guys, and then was put to home with 3e and made a central element of the system in 4e).

>>51380551
>Having a general with such low population you recognize posters

>>51378351
Gnome Divination Wizard. Tired of his boring city life, set out to know the most magical places of the land. Teamed up with some good fellas along the way.
He is always cheery and playful, but feels some responsibility, being the oldest of the troupe.

>>51380590
Yeah, maybe. You wont find me defending the design of the thief. I always thought it was the weakest design element of the old-school systems.

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>>51380279
>>51380327

You post in /tg/, that's what you're gonna get.

Fortunately, you're also going to get posts like >>51378621 and >>51379110, which make it 100% worthwhile.

>>51380611
Any ability can be described as arbitrary if you ignore the fluff surrounding the ability anon.

Wizards throw fireballs for no reason. Bards make people like them for no reason. Barbarians get sort of strong for no reason, etc.

At this point in questioning if you actually played 4e, or just read memes about it.

Every character has far more available options in 4e than a comparable character in 5e.

>>51380661
It's hard to miss touhoufag. He's an autistic cretin who basically does nothing but tear apart systems for optimization and posts with nothing but touhou pictures.

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>>51377371
Wizard - Artificer
Warlock - Seeker
Cleric - Death

I always wonder why 4e fans are still so keen on proselytizing their system. It's a dead system, and people have clearly lost interest.

>>51380675
>Every character has far more available options in 4e than a comparable character in 5e.

Excepting the monk and maybe the psion, 4e's abilities were fluff and flavor light, and you know it.

The point I'm making is not that 5e has more skills, it's that 5e has more MEANINGFUL skills.

I'd get more versatility bang for my buck out of a single 5e fighter's maneuver than I would out of most individual 4e Encounter powers, even though they're ostensibly the same thing.

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>>51380410
>Every warlock needs exactly one patron.

>>51380697
>Wizard - Artificer

What's it like being a crazy person?

>>51380661
Touhoufag has been touhoufag since 2008, famalam.

>>51380754
Feels like having most of the fun stuff the newer Artificer has save for the robot companion, but as a full caster. It's the Eberron UA, in case you're seriously don't know.

>>51380753
>Muh Binders
Fuck off, shitty gimmick mechanic from a dead edition. I don't see anyone clamoring to bring back Incarnum either.

>>51380739
False. And at this point it's clear you never played.

4e abilities had tight rules for resolving their effects, which makes them more versatile, because you can use them outside recommended situations with a reasonable hope of a fair ruling or explanation without having to play mother may I with the dm.

>>51380661
There are not that many posters in /5eg/ either

>>51380806
There's a few hundred of us throughout the week, just on at different times.

/4eg/ only has like 30 posters.

That said, Touhoufag has been here since 4e launched in '08, and is really hard to miss.

>>51380801
Except they weren't versatile because they were all the same. It didn't matter how easy it was to use Whatever Strike in any situation because you could have used Whatever Other Strike and accomplished exactly the same thing - some damage and a minor buff or debuff depending on your role.

>>51380165
>Fighter asks if he can push a bookcase
>DM says "why would you even ask, of course you can push a fucking bookcase, you can turn into lightning and teleport behind suckers and throw two orcs at once"
real hard

>>51380855
"Oh, wait, it looks like your Pushing Strike power only works on creatures, and the bookcase is an object. Sorry."

>>51380661
I recognize /5eg/ posters. I've even come up with names for them.

>>51380873
>what is an Athletics check
>what is the improvised actions table
You've never actually played 4e outside of maybe a session or two in '08, have you?

>>51380873
>PHB and DMG explicitly tell you to stop being such a shithead and offer numerous means by which you can allow or arbitrate these actions

>>51380888
Can I be bards&nobles anon?

>>51380801
>4e abilities had tight rules for resolving their effects

That was kind of its problem. The rules just weren't flexible, at all, and really were only made to accommodate straight-up combat.

For example: You want to bust down a door. You've got an At-Will ability that does CHA+[Weapon] damage, and slides an enemy one square. STR is your dump stat.

Can you bust down the door using the ability, or do you have to punch the door and fail with STR? Because that came up an awful lot for the CHA-paladin in the games I ran until we shrugged and said "fuck it, shit's magical."

>>51380846
Again, false. Some of the martials had a few samey abilities, but largely they were diverse classes.

>>51380670
A magical pitchfork. It acts as a quarterstaff and an arcane focus. It lets you cast Druidcraft and Friends at-will. You cannot help but affect a country accent while attuned

>>51380888
Nice trips.
Who am I then?

>>51380873
Why is it that people who insist 4E doesn't allow for improvisation are obviously terrible at it themselves?
>i hate 4e it's all about ROLL play hu hu
>now excuse you, we need to consult the emerald tablets of thoth and these 30 tables to determine whether you can jump more than three feet at a time and lift a steel sphere with a radius of six inches with one hand if you are a halfling male with a strength of 14

>>51377371
1.Rogue - Thief
2.Druid - Moon
3.Cleric - Life

>>51380949
>Country accent
American Southern or English West?

>>51380903
Oh good, skills. Except everyone in the party had to help for some reason, and the wizard and rogue failed their checks, so you fail the skill challenge.

>>51380945
The roles were sort of diverse. The classes were near-identical variations on those roles, and the powers were nearly indistinguishable.

>>51379682
Won't lie. Somethin about that makes me like it way better.

Now referencing to 4e exclusively as "tactics"

>>51380916
Not him, but to be perfectly fair, DMGs have been telling DMs to stop being shitheads as long as they've been around. It hasn't work yet.

>>51380934
Easy: the paladin rolls against the doors ac, and if he hits it, the door slides 1 square and off its hinges, thereby busting it. Sturdier doors have higher ACS. Objects fastened without hinges, like sections of a wall have higher ACS.

Iirc there are stats for ACS of objects, but you can accomplish this with situational bonuses to AC, easy enough to estimate.

>>51380959
>Why is it that people who insist 4E doesn't allow for improvisation are obviously terrible at it themselves?

I dunno, why do the people who insist 4e has tight, complete rules tell us that we should handwave away all the holes and problems it has?

>>51380949
I like it a lot. Thanks.

>>51380981
Would have to be something else, since my sessions are in portuguese.

>>51380981
Whichever you can maintain the easiest.

>>51381000
>All skill rolls are full-party skill challenges
>Complaining about games you've never played

>>51380873
>i'm so creatively bankrupt that I require a table to tell me exactly what I can and can't do in every single scenario rather than just improvise like the game fucking says to in the uncommon situations

>>51381027
Ooh Arr!

>>51381011
>Easy: the paladin rolls against the doors ac, and if he hits it, the door slides 1 square and off its hinges, thereby busting it

That's one way of looking at it, sure.

The other way of looking at it: If it's all about hitting the door's stats to reduce it to 0, why can't a psion Memory Hole the door into oblivion?

>>51380409
All the better to give you a boner my pretty

>>51381028
>pretending skill challenges don't exist
>defending games whose flaws you ignore

>>51380799
>nnnuuu different classes are not allowed to have different mechanics!
Binders were flavourful and unique, and had a strong "possession" theme going on which fits a class meant to be toying with dark powers perfectly.
5e Warlocks have fucking nothing. An extremely small amount of unique spells, less so than druid or cleric, and most of them are pretty meh. Their already limited options are even more restricted because you absolutely have to go eldritch agonizing blast or otherwise you'd be playing a shit warlock. They have 2 spell slots till level 11. The invocations mostly suck and bring nothing truly unique to the table, a decent amount of them just lets you cast certain wizard spells per long rest which makes their reliance on short rests even more clunky and gimmicky. None of the patron powers have an immense effect on your mechanical playstyle like certain other subclasses, and most of the time you're just going to be pressing left mouse button for dem blasts. Whenever I think "hey, i could play a warlock!" I just look at their spell list, look at their spell slots and conclude that I'd have much more options to toy with if I roll wiz/sorc. And instead of making the class actually have something special by releasing some new invocations, WotC just continue shitting out new patrons, neither of which do anything interesting with the class. The least shitty one was probably Undying Light, ironically, because it at the very least provides you with an alternative to just shitting out eldritch blasts.
Warlocks are basically babies first caster class that you hand out to your party Champion fighter when they say they got bored and wanna try casting.

>>51381056
Now see here you cumguzzling fuckwit, I never denied the existence of Skill Challenges. I said you're a fucking idiot for implying that "fighter wants to push over a bookcase in combat" would ever result in a Skill Challenge rather than the fighter just making a single Athletics check.

>>51381036
I'm confused now, are you defending the one edition with the strictest rules for what you can and can't do in every single scenario? Because it sounds like you hate it as much as I do and prefer the edition where the rules were a little looser and less autistically rigid. I guess I'm glad we agree?

>>51380502
Come up with a plot hook senpai. If they feel like they're just wandering around maybe it's time to smash em with some events. Throw a fukken tourney at em. Splice in some political intrigue in a kingdom they've never seen. Maybe a little romance with the duchess of Elderlake? Sure it's overplayed and cliche as fuck, but that shit gets my rocks off.

>>51381100
>5e Warlocks have fucking nothing

Yeah I guess a completely unique style of casting and gish-customization for all options is nothing.

TIL.

>>51380799
I like Pact Binders.

>>51381136
Personally I like Trapper Keepers.

>>51381102
It might. Published 4e adventures have flimsier excuses for skill challenges. And even if you had a chill DM who would let you do it as a single roll, unbounded accuracy and numbers inflation meant that the DC of moving your bookcase would always increase as fast as your ability to push it, like you're in a Bethesda game or something.

fug me /5eg/, i'm stuck between two campaigns and neither of them are particularly appealing
Campaign A
>composed entirely of people i know and mildly comedic in nature
>one player is full on chaotic stupid, greedy and autistic, enjoys committing arson everywhere and anywhere and generally being an irritating and vindictive speshul snowflaek
>another player is mostly okay and roleplays well, but rolls persuasion repeatedly without roleplaying his arguments and the DM lets him get away with it
>i'm trying to roleplay seriously and stay in character nearly the entire session
>other players are alright but incredibly passive
Campaign B
>group and my university
>know 2 people in it, they're both reasonable human beings with interesting characters
>the DM is a beta orbiter who's allowed these 2 tumblrblobs in and they're the worst sort of lolrandumbXD look at how much of a lesbian i am
>despite this, he's a good GM and the campaign seems interesting
what do i do famalam? both are at the same time so i need to pick one

>>51380799
Shut your whore mouth. Binders were one of the coolest things to come out of third edition.

>>51381125
>completely unique style of casting
>yeah you can cast two spells per SHORT rest and they're always cast at their highest level
If that's what constitutes unique in your world, the Mystic 10 UA must be from another fucking dimension.

>>51381165
I'll go with a good DM any day.

>>51381164
But you'll be pushing the bookcase of the gods, or some shit, I dunno.

>>51381105
Do tell how 4 has stricter rules than 3.5

>>51381165
The second one.

>>51381165
A gaming group is as good as its worst member. Choose based on that.

>>51381044
I mean, what I wrote is the only correct way of looking at it. You're the one failing to understand a very simple concept. I don't see why the edition should be blamed if you choose to be retarded.

Following the rules of 4e also has the nice side effect of not shafting martial players.

>>51381170
>Mystics get their power from the Far Realm
Literally from another dimension, fampai.

>>51381164
That's not how the skill check difficulty table works.

>>51381170
>not unique

So you're claiming the 5e warlock plays exactly like another class?

Because all I'm hearing is you complaining that you don't like how it plays.

And hey, wouldn't you know, no one is forcing you to play a warlock.

>>51381164
Now that's not at all what they tell you to use increasing DC's for. They say that DC's should go up because the situations you are in get more extreme. You're no longer scaling a wall with gear, at level 20 you're scaling an the ice wall of the Palace of Levistus with nothing but a knife.

>>51381125
>completely unique style of casting
Which they hardly utilize.
Have fun casting 2 spells max per fight, and casting none the next 2-3.
>gish-customization
Which sucks major ass.
>TIL
>>>/reddit/

>>51381056
Skill challenges are great when used appropriately. I've been using them in 5e and they're more fun than any advice the 5e dmg ever gave me.

That said, as originally presented in the 4e dmg they're confusing and poorly implemented.

>>51381210
First, everyone who responds to you isn't the same person. Second, Warlock casting is unique in the same way that Paladin melee is "unique" from Champion Fighter melee.
>but he can smite on literally any attack he lands
That is, not fucking very.

>>51381205

So I can totally Memory Hole a door into oblivion then? Good to know.

>>51381229

Found the idiot that spams both his spell slots, then cries about not having any spell slots left.

You don't *need* spell slots as a warlock as much as a wizard does. You use one if you need it, but rely on cantrips or your pact weapon about 90% of the time.

If that playstyle isn't for you, that's fine. No one's forcing you to do anything, sempai.

>>51381212
>>51381187
That's what I'm saying; the new walls and bookcases are just recolors of the old walls and bookcases with bigger numbers. You can call them more extreme if you want, but it's really obvious that adding 20 to both sides results in the same thing as adding 0.

>>51381240
The door has immunity to psychic damage resulting from mental effects like Memory Hole. You could blast it with psychic energy, but Memory Hole is about deleting knowledge--and a door knows nothing.

>>51377371
Cleric - Tempest
Artificer - Gunsmith
Fighter - Eldritch Knight

>>51381113
I guess it really is that simple. I think part of my problem is I obsess about things making sense, "feeling organic", and being already partially connected in some way.

I really do just need to throw some shit at them out of the blue.

>>51381185
>>51381192
>>51381195
i'll take this into consideration
the GM for campaign A isnt that bad, but he definitely allows a few more shenanigans than i would like
just as an side, how acceptable is it to "accidentally" kill a party member? especially when said character is an active detriment to the party

>>51381240
So you're reading my posts now about as well as you read the 4e PHB. Nice. I never referenced damage. The paladin power works because it shifts the door one space which obviously breaks it.

Memory hole would not work, because doors don't have minds to be affected by psychic (tag) damage.

>>51381237
There's no appropriate use for them. There's just no situation where the DM would want to make the party take turns making a skill check each and try to accumulate X successes before Y failures.

>>51381346
As a player? You're fucking up.
As a GM? If they're retarded, thats on them.

>>51377371
discord is a shit
i got banned by a huge faggot
new discord when

Building an undead character, do any of you guys have any experience with getting through towns filled with clerics and the like trying to un-make you without leaving the party behind?

All the 4e/5e bullshit aside, I'd like to ask an actual, on-topic question:

Is there an appreciable difference between Nature and Survival? Can one of them do something the other cannot?

>>51381311
That's a bit of a slippery slope there. Are all Giants just recolors with bigger numbers and different elements?
Context to the action and the thrill of big numbers is some peoples entire call to the game.

>>51381294
>class is supposedly interesting and unique because it restricts you to using your better firebolt 99% of the time
Wew, god forbid something with an actual dark ritualist flavour like the binder had rights to exist.
>b-b-but other cantriiips!
Yeah, shame warlocks have no other unique cantrips, right?
>No one's forcing you to do anything, sempai.
That's not an argument.

>>51381388
The difference between wisdom and intelligence.

>>51377371
Bard - Lore
Rogue - Arcane Trickster
Wizard - Diviner

>>51381388
Nature knows facts about creatures. "Oh this creature has a small gland that shoots fire".
Survival is knowing what foods are good to eat or where to take shelter or how to not get lost.

>>51381388
Nature is Knowing the difference between a Bear and a Berry

Survival is knowing "fuck there are bears in this area" or "those berries will kill you"

>>51381388
Nature is you being able to tell the difference between a rabbit and a hare.
Survival is being able to catch the fucker and roast it.

>>51381382

Disguise Self is your bestest friend.

Most clerics aren't going to be looking for undead at all times, so you're probably alright as long as you don't get too buddy-buddy with them.

Just say religion isn't for you, keep your nose clean, and move on to the next town.

>>51381388
Nature is the academic knowledge of Nature. Knowing shit like the scientific name of various species' and what particular spells a Fey has access to baseline.
Survival is the Outdoorsman skill and the base knowledge that fighting a Bear can be very bad for your long term happiness.

>>51381336
Don't be afraid to ask for some rolls homie. Check that passive perception walking into a tavern. Maybe the party hears rumors of a land beyond where they used to think the world ended? It's your world and it's only as big as your imagination.

>>51381388
Survival is for any practical know-how, like following tracks, hunting wild game, traveling without getting lost, and gathering food and water. Some of it is dependent on what environments the user is familiar with.

Nature is book learning. With it you can identify poisonous plants and recall fun facts about beasts, plants, humanoids, monstrosities, giants, and dragons, even if you never saw them when you were growing up. If you're making a check to try to get the DM to show you part of a monster's character sheet, you're rolling Nature, Arcana, or Religion, but never Survival. It's no good for gathering mushrooms but is good for telling whether a given mushroom is poisonous.

>>51381366
You don't make the party take turns you moron. You arrange the situations so different party members should have different uses at different times, about as often. You present the prompts, and hope the players will come up with solutions that give equal screen time. If they don't, no big deal. Accept whatever solution they come up with and roll on it.

>>51381382
If you're playing Warlock, permanent disguise self is pretty sweet
otherwise, just try to stay low profile
Stay at the outskirts of town watching the cart, down go into temples and such.

>>51377371
Cleric - Tempest
Barbarian - totem
Warlock - Tome

>>51381401
>oh no, Pact of the Tome doesn't exist

It's like you wanted to be a dark ritualist, and ignored the feature that gave you rituals.

>oh no, my brain is stuck on eldritch blast and Pact of the Tome still doesn't exist

Thaumaturgy, Shillelagh, and literally every unique cantrip in the game is available to warlocks. No one else gets that flexibility, full stop.

>oh no, people are having fun that isn't my kind of fun

Damn, can't help you with that one. Guess it's time to end it all, huh?

>>51381165
Campaign A.

>>51381351
Oh, also, you could force shard a door to death because it deals force damage, not psychic damage. You would have to reduce the door to zero hp though, which could take some time.

>>51378117
I did a wizard/fighter multiclass that was essentially a magic super soldier. Arcane archer's magic arrows to fuck with enemies, could action surge to hit them with a spell the same turn I hit them with an arrow. I essentially treated my magic arrows as spells that I could use in the same turn as another spell if I used action surge. Action surge was obviously nice as was the weapon proficiencies.

I suppose mine was more wizardly than an eldritch knight but the overall concept should work with an eldritch knight.

>>51381398
In an edition where crunch is everything, you really need the crunch to vary a lot. Different characters, enemies, and tiers of play should feel different mechanically. In 4e the only difference is small numbers vs. big numbers.

>>51381486
Sounds like a dungeon to me.

Seriously, that's already what happens in any adventure. Players do stuff, and you hope that everyone gets to do some stuff. You don't need to make up a goofy skill challenge system to try to shoehorn situations into. It's good for literally nothing.

>>51381590
Nope. They're a great framework for designing social encounters, and exploration based encounters, the two most overlooked """thirds"""" of dnd 5e.

>>51381382
Disguise Self or Hat of Disguise.
Alternatively, if you're an undead who doesn't mutate and can pass as a normal corpse, cast Gentle Repose on yourself directly after being raised and every nine days thereafter. It stops decay, and since you're undead, many DMs will let you argue that you fit the target requirements (a corpse).

Either way, I recommend either not touching anyone, or wearing gloves when you do. You'll still be cold to the touch. You'll also want Wisdom at 20, to give you the best chances of looking unfazed if someone happens to Turn Undead near you.

>>51381551
I think you may have a DM problem.
There's a part of the 4e DMG where it mentions scope of adventures. 1-10 should be things like the Local Area into A Lot of Local Area. 11-20 should be the Kingdom to the Continent. 21-30 should be The Plane and the Universe.
Scope, locale, monster choice, all have an affect on the feel of the game. At no point at level 25 should you just be walking down a corridor in the dungeon waiting to fight dudebro number 45. It's shit like sailing the Astral Sea approaching the floating corpse of a dead god so that you can stop the Arch Necromancer from reviving the greatest zombie of them all.
So you scale the corpse of the dead god from the foot, making your way up to the shoulder where the Arch Necromancer whispers the words of awakening into the dead gods ear, or you sail right the fuck up to where he is, taking bombarding magic fire from he and his apprentices, while the guns of your Astral Skiff pick them off.
There's a lot of shit you can, that you can just do in other editions sure, but 4e tells you to make things more heroic as often as possible.

>>51381669
>1-10 should be things like the Local Area into A Lot of Local Area. 11-20 should be the Kingdom to the Continent. 21-30 should be The Plane and the Universe

That's a great philosophy on the surface of it, but then you're in the Giant Fuck-You Abyssal Temple of Tiamat and there are minion kobolds with 1 hp but AC and stats that would make a 5th level PC weep for jealousy and fear.

>>51381721
They're not minions, they're the big guards that gave them a shit load of trouble a tier ago, but now you chop through them because your Epic Destinies WILL NOT BE STOPPED.
Make everything more hype.

>>51381346
Fuck it senpai with the right motivation it don't even gotta be accidental.

Also depends on party alignment

>>51381382
Be the ultimate Dead Uncle Tom and Cleric the shit out of your own kind.

>>51381771
>They're not minions, they're the big guards that gave them a shit load of trouble a tier ago

But they're literally kobolds with 1 hp and god-stats relative to those you'd find on the Prime Material. By game-rule definitions, they're minions.

There's honor guards and shit, sure, but those are other creatures in the same dungeon. These are kobolds.

>>51381800

Have a player running this exact concept right now.

Skeleton Grave cleric, formerly in the church of Pelor. His plan is to kill all undead, then himself last.

>>51381801
What I'm saying is you've advanced so far from the last time you fought these guys that you butcher them and fight 40 at a time handily.
It's possible even some of them are the guys you killed a while ago, since you're in the Abyssal Temple of their God and all that.
The difference in their AC is a bless from the vile consecration of the temple, or something.
I dunno, I never had a problem with the Minion suspension of disbelief thing, it's sort of like fighting normals in Exalted, you kill several in a swing when fighting them Mortal v Mortal would be a dangerous encounter.

>>51381779
the party alignment is pretty mixed, its split between neutral and evil, the whole premise is we're a bunch of randoms who all answered a wanted ad for odd jobs to be done for a powerful sorcerer who's occupation seems to be problem solver/magical NSA
we have an antipaladin(blackguard or something) actively trying to corrupt the group, with some small degree of success, a reformed assassin who's mentally unstable, who's neutral, along with my bard who's neutral good and has delusions of grandeur as to his own heroism, then a druid who's slipping into being evil or at least chaotic, then the problem character, who's a chaotic neutral mage/bard who's basically just a spoiled teenage girl with magically induced bipolar who epitomizes chaotic stupid and is basically ruining the campaign with all the stupid shit she does
its happened before that she's nearly been dropped when i cast thunderwave to clear out zombies and she failed her con save, and it would be fairly easy to finagle a situation and replicate that

>>51381527
>It's like you wanted to be a dark ritualist, and ignored the feature that gave you rituals.
Yeah, shame there is nothing dark about those rituals and only two out of ten you can pick when you acquire Book of Ancient Secrets don't belong to the wizard, with Purity Food and Drink being incredibly niche and practically useless and Speak with Animals being the slightly better option. Feels truly unique.
>Thaumaturgy
Wew a better prestidigitation, my panties sure are soaked.
>Shillelagh
Yeah, real shame you're not a bladelock that can truly utilize that, right? Tactically speaking, in overwhelming majority of cases you'd be better off pushing the enemy away with repelling blast if confronted in melee and just running away without provoking an AoT.
Besides, tomelock is not even an archetype, you're just further proving my point how picking a patron barely affects your final playstyle. Now compare that to druid subclasses, or the revised ranger, or even a fucking cleric.
>No one else gets that flexibility
Yeah, except lore bard, which actually has unique features of his own, more spellslots, and is actually a useful support.
>Guess it's time to end it all, huh?
Nuke it.

>>51380502
>Assassins attack!
>Warforged attack the city they like best because BBEG wants something or other in/under/above the city.
>A vampire falls in love with a character from the party and organizes an abduction
>There have been sightings of harpies near the mountains a few weeks ago and shadowy figures have been witnessed flying near the mountaintops in the evening. There are animals impaled on trees and some children have recently gone missing.
>An old friend asks you to help his nephew find a very important heirloom that he lost in the mountains... suddently, GHOULS!

Not to mention you have Wyverns, Griffins and many other beasties to play around with.

>>51381893

No, I'm fine with minion rules. In reality minions are one of the things I was really happy with in 4e, that I felt they should've kept into 5e.

My problem is when you've got a minion statted up that can singlehandedly wreck a party of low-paragon tier adventurers, because its AC is so high they can't touch the thing. It illustrates how wacky 4e's math is, and how you can't just grab any monster to use out of context in that system.

>>51381434
Wouldn't really cut it if a border guard were to check hard on the party only to figure out they're getting an undead around.

I was thinking of having the character hidden in a modified backpack and passed off as gear (I suspect skeletons don't feel that much discomfort anymore) and only show up when he's needed.

>>51378351
warforged barbarian. raging is re-fluffed into an "overclock" mode. he was originally built as a peacekeeper for an ancient magical kingdom. at some point he was deactivated and pretty much left for dead. he was fixed up and reawakened hundreds of years later by a famous artificer. now he's taken up the axe once again to uphold the law once again. lawful neutral, by the books. arrests if he can, slaughters if he can't.

>>51381801
>>51381893
I think I've got a bit of an idea of how to explain it.
There's a level 3 Ogre that is a standard Brute. There's a level 8 Ogre that is a minion.
Consider these the same monster, but your proportional damage is now enough to 1 shot the level 3 Ogre, with some added extra difficulty, represented with higher AC because neck shotting 100% of your strikes is harder.
Rather than just quadratically improve your damage, it's simpler to just give the level 8 Ogre 1hp.

>>51381938

You could totally bag of holding yourself, I'd imagine, since you don't breathe.

It'd probably get boring in there all the time, though. And lonely.

>>51381971
Would it get lonelier than waking up after a hundred years to find out all your friends and everyone you knew is dead except you?

>>51381936
Heh, well remember that Allips in 3.5 are CR3 but would absolutely destroy every party that isn't designed specifically to murder an ethereal.
You're not really meant to just 'grab a monster' to use, it's even straight up counter to the encounter design rules that 4e loves so hard.

>>51381926
Fuck it dunno bout no antipaladin, but I know Lawful Evil Blackguard is one of my favorite archetypes, and that dude would put chaotic stupid on the chopping block for destroying towns he would potentially try and conquer.

If you're neutral good and think you can swing it there are a dozen ways to phrase it. "This bitch is too dangerous to exist in the world" and for the evil party members it could be said that "if there was ever a reason we would be caught we all know it was this one."

Regardless it's a group mentality thing to take into consideration too if everyone is gonna look at you like the team killing fucktard.

>>51381939
A component that embeds in his chest. It's a clear crystal appears to give a view to a raging thunderstorm. He can cast Thaumaturgy at-will. While raging, his unarmed strikes deal 1d8+Strength modifier lightning or thunder damage. When he takes the Attack action during a rage, he can make an unarmed strike as a bonus action. Each time he makes an unarmed strike while raging, he takes 2 lighting damage.

When not raging, he has a strange desire to shake hands with people.

File: recipe.jpg (241KB, 1500x1000px) Image search: [Google]

241KB, 1500x1000px

Guys, I'm getting one of these to hold all the item cards I'll be giving to my players, and I can customize the text with whatever font and text.

I'm using a medieval-looking font, but what should the chest say?

Loot?
Treasure?
Booty Box?

I want it to be something I can use for more than one campaign.

File: the ride never ends.gif (205KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 500x500px

>>51381988

What do you mean, "except you"?

You're a fucking skeleton.

>>51382015
i like that justification for the paladin, and i dont think it would be too hard to convince the others
in campaign, i've taken steps to meet with the boss and inform him how psychotic and how much of a liability she is, but cant be sure if that'll go anywhere
thanks for the advice my dude

>>51382102
Use dwarven runes, have it mean whatever the hell works for that particular story.
Refluff it as "these are human letters" or "these are ancient dragon script, sometimes used by the elves" or whatever.

>>51382102
Leave it blank.

>>51382102

PHAT LOOT

>>51381926
We all have met that one "I'm Chaotic Stupid!" guy. In my group he plays NG and LN the most, among other things he's kidnapped strangers to steal their stuff (LG paladin), killed stray dogs in the streets with a fireball spell (LN wizard), tortured half a dozen goblins, orcs and once a satyr (NG monk).
I'm pretty sure he's on the spectrum.

>>51382102
MIMIC. DO NOT OPEN

>>51382102
>>51382136
I hadn't considered runes, something like Futhark AOE here would be amazing, that's a really good idea.

>>51382151
I was considering, but it feels like I would be wasting an opportunity, considering there's no additional cost.

>>51382162
>>51382168
Bretty gud

>>51382168
Instead

>NOT A MIMIC
then glue teeth to the inside

>>51381527
>It's like you wanted to be a dark ritualist, and ignored the feature that gave you rituals.
Oh shit yo I get to perform blood sacrifices on stone altars to facilitate the unholy binding of lost souls to this world in the name of my dark lord? oh no I get to ward my campsite with Alarm and summon a stote from a brass jugpot to be my familiar
and that's ALL i'll probably get to do, because unlike a lot of people who look at scribing abilities I don't go into a game expecting my GM to give me spell scrolls or feeling that he has an obligation to give them to me
hell, I've played in games where I've barely made a couple hundred gold by 8th level and got nothing but the shittiest magic items the entire time
>oh no, people are having fun that isn't my kind of fun
not an argument

>>51379208
Honestly just invoking your CD on hit so you can deal additional 1d8 necrotic/psyhic and it changes the smite damage if you chose to do so. Little bit weak but still can see uses.

>>51377371

Bard Lore
Paladin Treatchery
Cleric Arcana with wizard ritual caster

>>51382106
I'll admit to the poor choice of words.
You're still the only person you ever knew who still walks the earth.

>>51378351

A bard who was cursed to play only tortuously bad tunes until he finally pulls out the most beautiful melody in creation right at the moment before his death.

A fact that the bard is aware of, and so deeply invested in his continued existence, that he uses his genre paranoia to run away duck and hide from every opportunity the gods take to smite him so that they can finally be see what this big hubaloo of a song is all about

>>51382422

Variant Human Charlatan Bard (Magic Initiate: Warlock) btw

What is the best variant familiar ignoring their attacks and including the gazer? Same thing for non-variant familiars. Alternatively if somebody has a guide that includes the gazer I'd appreciate that.

NEW THREAD

>>51382592
>>51382592
>>51382592