/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>51317051
IGNOREAPSEL

>>51317051
>What's a good population ratio for old changelings?
I'd say it'd have to be pretty fucking low, given how they have about a decade or so of life in them.

Magefags arguing over Ascension rules. Not realizing that no one ever plays the game RAW. Ever.

>Spheres being a Paradigm in itself
>The rules make no sense in regards to the lore
>Magic is either ridiculously easy or beyond difficult to cast.
>Paradox threat is inconsistent and ST dependent
>Discarding Foci makes no fucking sense at all
>HDYDT is the worst book addition
>Phil Brucato

>>>51317051 (OP)
>>What's a good population ratio for old changelings?
0 changelings. The world is too banal for them.

>>51317073
Seems a bit of an odd claim, given that their lifespans increase as their Wyrd rises.

>>51317094
That's NWoD Changeling.

Wasn't V:tM supposed to shoot for 1:100,000? I always thought that was absurdly low, it would mean that cities over a million would have like, 10 dudes in them max. IIRC the other splats were supposed to be even rarer, with the exception of Wraiths who by logic almost certainly exceed the number of mortals in the setting.

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>>51317094
oWoD Changelings had it bad, they basically ran on various motifs of 'Clap you hands and believe in me being otherkin!' except instead of bringing them back to life, it kept them from having their Fae nature torn from them brutally and leaving them a broken, emotionally empty husk.

>>51317055
Is this the same vampfag that sucks Paradoxs throbbing veiny penis and believes his idea of Paradigm is the correct one?

>>51317115
In a 1e VtR book there was a mention of 1:10,000 being the lowest amount of humans who can effectively hide a single vampire without rousing Hunter ire. I guess they just knocked a zero off that one.

I have a question! I have a question! If Mages are the most powerful people in old and new worlds. Which splat is considered the second strongest in both? How do they compare?

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>>51317150
Yup, i'm still here Anon. It's okay, we have each other. And Simpsons reacts.

>>51317078

>Phil Brucato

Your rant should have began and ended there.

So just how fucking bad is Inuring a spell?
Like are you considered fucking scum for doing so?
Is it just a black spot on your record?
Do all kinds of mages do it?

... I'm thinking of Inuring Psychic Domination.

I want to be Phil Brucato

>>51317219
Well then get to work on changing breeds 2e

>>51317151
I could totally see that, 10 vampires in a city/town of 100,000 doesn't seem all that crazy to me, the 1:100,000 ratio would make sense for like, Mages, Mummies and that sort of thing i'd wager. The Wolfies always seem like a moving target to me in the oWoD, they're always dying and breeding in droves and they tend to sequester themselves away from Mortals anyway with a few notable exceptions.
>>51317166
I'd say that in Old i'd have to give it the Demons, their demonic forms are fucking brutal if kitted out for killing, and they can get some pretty decent soak going if they have good following. For the new, I dunno, Geist? Their pretty fucking hard to kill.

>>51317167
I bet you also believe a Mage shouldn't be able to cast a spell ever? Or was that just your ST?

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>>51317237
I guess I believe in using the rules governing the casting of spells in the game? And my ST used to enforce the paradox rules rather viciously until he realized that he could just have other forms of backlash happen to us for waving our magickal dicks around inappropriately in the air; for instance, you can sense when Paradox is coming down on other mages with the right spheres.

>>51316831

An Archmage probably just killed God because apparently they're stronger. I still need to read that book.

>>51317286
>believing the fail mage is your friend
I would need a drink too friend

>>51317305
I mean, that'd be a pretty good story unto itself; it also treads right over the toes of M:tAw however.

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>>51317412
>not being friends with a Magus by giving them Vicissituded lawn furniture made from their Sleeper neighbors.

>>51317051
>What's a good population ratio for old changelings?

Zero.

>>51317459

You could always just turn the Tzimisce into a lawn chair at the snap of your fingers if you don't like the gift. But it's the thought that counts right?

>>51317078
>>51317210

Players will never be satisfied

>>51317166

Dark Ages Changelings for oWoD
Demons for the CofD. No question.

>>51317166
I think in terms of Chronicles in Darkness, it's something along the lines of this for power order (Include 2nd Edition incarnations in this list where applicable)

Mage
Mummy (at their strongest)
Demon
Beast
Geist
Vampire
Werewolf
Promethean
Changeling
Deviant
Hunter
Minor Templates (Generally)
Mortals

>>51317575
>>51317578
The Demons are wild-cards in that they can always just say fuck it and Go Loud; there's not a lot most splats can do about that. And with Interlocks you can probably pull off some crazy shit as well.

>>51317608
Admittedly in terms of Mummy and Demon I'm just going off of general consensus of things I hear from both games, wasn't sure which of the two would come out top between going loud and a full powered mummy that just woke up.

>>51317648
I think that's largely a matter of terrain, if you try to take on the Mummy in their den, with their Cult around or whatever, you're probably boned, cover burning or no.

>>51317608

Indeed. Only a freshly awakened Mummy or a prepared (or just clever) Mage is going to overpower them.

>>51317418

The Pax Arcanum prevents Archmasters from killing gods. oWoD Archmages can do it relatively easily (they're far more powerful than Awakening Archmages) and without notable repercussion.

Was reading the previous thread when I came across this comment.

>>51316268

The reason why Mages in Ascension are so deadly in white-room encounters is due to the many ways they can "hang", "hold" and "store" their magicks via the Time, Space, Spirit and Prime spheres. They are all pre-rolled and as such can be incredibly powerful through rituals.

That's four out of the nine Spheres. There is only one Arcana (Time) in Awakening that lets you "hang" pre-rolled spells. The only thing preventing Mages from initiating white-room encounters is the threat of Paradox, which is still not going to deter your average Mage from getting what he/she wants If the rewards are worth it.

Magick is excruciatingly difficult, but once you prepare you're golden.

>>51317878
And I'm attacking that base premise, there's no reason there'd ever be a white-room and for every sphere the mage has to hang those spells, they'll still need the appropriate amount of dots of other Magick necessary to do the Lawnchair trick. This still assumes that they go first, which given the amount of experience we're throwing around here to achieve these sort of effects in character building, isn't a freebie for the Mage. These arguments have no place in this sort of game to begin with, the combat system is an absolute mess, we all know this.

>>51317823
She's great because she's a mage

>>51317966

While I can respect your unaggressive attitude to the game-line, I will have to (again, with due respect) disagree that Ascension is played without combat in mind. As it goes against the very lore/background of the setting. Both Massassa Wars & the infamous Himalayan War (the conflict between the Akashics and the Thanatoic Cults) come to mind.

Adding to this (again, with due respect) disagreement; I have had a great many sessions with combat/conflict as the core theme. Two of which were crossover (predominantly Vampire) affairs and our Mage players were not hampered in any way, (other than the obvious Paradox) whatsoever. Indeed, I would have to say the Mages were the stronger of the involved gamelines. By a good margin too.

You also have to remember that M20 isn't the definite edition here. Many of us prefer the street-level Revised Edition and others still prefer the more open-ended Second Edition. Turning Vampires (I'm sorry I mentioned it) into lawn chairs was far easier in those. The M20 Rote is an obvious joke and shouldn't be so difficult according to previous Sphere descriptions. I'm not the only one who acknowledges this.

My point is that combat does in fact have a very big place in Ascension.This is the Ascension War, after all, and we're not going to win it by sitting down.

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>Another thread more mage want
Well at least they aren't vamp fags the absolute worst and most cancerous of wod fanbases.

>>51318214
Fuck off faggot any vamp worth their salt can speed blitz some dumbass mage before they can say abra kadabra

Are people actually debating whether or not Mages are good at fighting? This is not going to end well. Ascension Mages are also the stronger of the two, I might add. Paradox or not.

>>51318239
The wishful tears and dreams of vampire fags. I laugh at your pitiful delusions.

>Mage Supremacy

>>51318239
Delicious blood tears

>>51317700
>>51317608
This isn't even taking into account the Exploit that lets them copy the powers of other supernatural creatures or Analysts who don't get a huge toolbox of powers when they go Loud but can combine Exploits into super Exploits.

>>51317217
I imagine it's like unsafely relinquishing a spell. Frowned upon but unless you do it infront of the guardians in a counsilia meeting it'll probably slide.

>>51317217
Also I recommend talking it as a praxis for obvious reasons.

This is going to be another mage wank thread. You can thank a certain simpson for questioning the core theme of Ascension for that. Or we could just drop it and discuss something else.

>>51317966

You're attacking nothing. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Ascension isn't about combat as much as it's about belief and differing philosophies. You're claiming magic is hard AF to get off but it really isn't.

>>51318380
Awakening, which is the better Mage game

Can forces knowing magic 'decrypt' data? Like could I look at an encrypted file and know exactly what's contained within?

>>51317305
What craptastic book gave mages this kind of power?

>>51318551
I would say yes

Anyone want to discuss something other than mage? I'd go for literally anything else right now. Even beast.

>>51318564
>I would say yes
Really? I'd treat it like translating a foreign tongue. While a Mage probably totally can I'm not sure if Forces is the right one to go with.

>>51318607
Even if forces wouldn't let you do the math you could super juice the computer with supernal energy to brute force any mundane encryption.

Most bullshit mage you can come up with in cWoD. Go

>>51318601
Like how Beast is the crossover splat yet Mage still does it better than them?

>>51318601
Like how a Mage will ever be more powerful than a filthy Beast?

>>51318631

A previous Anon came up with this
>>5126866

Not as explosive as Forces 9, but it is easily the single most powerful ability in the cWoD/oWoD. I don't think anyone could even defend against it, It also means you "win" the entire setting.

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Threadly reminder that magefags are smelly basement dwelling neets who waste their days jerking off to power trip fantasies and who will NEVER, EVER find happiness

>>51318822
I shudder at the thought of vamp fans then. Or, god forbid, changeling lovers.

>>51317078
"mage supremacists" have never played the game, let alone read a book. They just want to masturbate about being powerful to justify their utterly beta lives.

They just need to accept that there's nothing shameful about being a cuckold.

>>51317051

This guy on a now defunct website took the time to record every mention of population ratios in a single list. I repost:

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Masquerade_Project/ar/t1376.htm

>>51318551
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51258624/#51268626

>>51317219
You're going to need a hacksaw, a pair of forceps and some local anesthsetic for the lobotomy. Some daytura may also be necessary for the delusions and ranting. Finally, you'll need a Patreon so you can beg others to pay your rent while Richard Dansk swims in his kidney-shaped swimming pool full of $100 bills.

>>51317459
>What is paradox?
>Brucatto don't hurt me
>don't hurt me
>no more

>>51317578
I thought they went out of their way to nerf the big three and put Mortals on steroids for Chronicles of Dickeggs? huh. It's a good thing no-one ever leveled charges of Consistency against OPP (Over-Powered Pulp)

>>51318822
The only fags that liked owod mages were those power gamer who used the vague confusing and shitty rules to blitz any story in the face

>>51318940
I'm too gay for super science as magic to not love the setting.

>>51318219
Poor baby, are the nasty 4channers liking what you don't like again? Just turn off the computer and watch Thomas the Tank Engine, you have pre-school in the morning.

I will just list them for you, Anons.

Masters of the Art pgs 65 - 75

>Forces 9 Remove gravity from the universe causing all the stars to go supernova. You have now destroyed the universe.

>Entropy 9 Complete control over destiny. Existence is now your personal fanfic. You are Omniscient.

>Time 9 You exist outside of time. You are older than existence and younger than the void.

>Life 9 You have true immortality in the grandest sense of the word. You cannot be killed by any means.

>Mind 9 You are now the single mind of the universe. You exist as everyone. Individuality no longer exists. The rarest of the Archspheres.

>Prime 9 You can create universes in the palm of your hands. You are omnipotent within said universes with your knowledge of the spheres as the only limitation. The Consensus is now your bitch.

Pick one.

>>51319028
>mages r da best hurdurdurr
>ima go jackoff to gandalf
Do you fucking enjoy posting boner material for magefags you piece of fucking shit? Fuck off and die.

>>51319028
What void?

>>51319064
mad vampy

>>51319103
Can you fuck off too? Mage asses have been doing nothing but whoring themselves for the past four threads. You can also leave. The above shitpost does nothing but prolong this annoyance. We get it. Power is mage theme. But can you fuck off?

IGNORE MAGE SUPREMACISTS

>>51318955
new mage has Free Council, which has all the techy tech

>>51319193
2nd edition definitely helped that. The 1st edition Free Council book made me sad inside.

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Have the Tremere actually done anything wrong?

>level 9 sphere
>getting a 12 on a ten sided die

>>51319215
In Left Hand Path they want to end the world. So no.

>>51319223
>what is quintessence
>what is willpower

??

>>51319223
Don't feet the mage whores you whore

>>51319233
>paying quint
disgusting

>not being a Mage

>>51319028
Of course, at this point you are a walking Paradox bomb and the Tellurian wants you to literally move to your uncle and aunty in the Bel Air Realm.

There's also the fact that you wouldn't even be remotely human anymore. Haven't you seen Akira?

>>51319223
>Archmage Time 4 hangs Forces 9 Obliterate Universe spell
>Sets conditional trigger to set loose upon his death
>Forces the universe to worship him as the new God-Emperor of the Galactic Mage Imperium
>A new glorious age of Mage supremacy has begun

>>51319215
No, of course not. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. Also, please contact your local Chantry if you see any sneaky terrorist types with three eyes.

>>51319281
But we will still have vampfags and other lesser splats to torture, right?

>>51319281
>Most boring game in history. Exists only to stroke the creator's ego. No stars.
> --- The Guardian

>>51319290
Of course, my good Anon! They shall be pitted to fight each other for our own amusement.

>>51319150
I'd prefer they committed suicide, because if they just fuck off, they'll shit up another part of the internet with juvenile power fantasies

>>51319301
How amusing, it will be like watching monkeys fight.

>>51319301
>>51319311
>>51319290

Oh look, you're samefagging. How frightfully droll. What an acme of comedy and originality. What an apex of academic excellence and biting satire. What an apogee of Shakespearean wit.

Joke. You fail to satisfy on every level, just like your lovers keep telling you.

>>51319389
You're just going to get their pus filled ego sacs swollen red.

>Level9 spell
>difficulty 12
>five successes for correspondence
>ten successes for everywhere
>ten successes for major effect
on ten sided dice
never forget mage fags are lazy fags

>>51319389

Are you trying to be clever?

>>51319440

Forces 9 explicitly targets the entirety of the universe. The ability is called "Alter Universal Forces"

Read MotA pg 69

>>51318653
Except Mage doesn't because they overshadow the other players.

>>51318922
Second edition buffed the supernaturals hard. A mortal isn't going to throw down with a Werewolf and live.

>>51319440
>difficulty 12

Doesn't that mean they'd have to roll two additional successes at a difficulty of 10?

So, SEVEN successes. With a generous dice pool of Arete 9, that means chances of success are less than 0.0002%

yeah. I've seen pizzas more "supreme" than that. And they even had olives...

>>51319447
"trying" implies he failed. he didn't.

y u mad tho?

IGNORE THE MAGE SUPREMACISTS

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Was he right?

>>51319814
He did all the right moves. He tried to use the fledgling as cannon fodder, tried to get that sweet sweet elder vitae all for himself, hell he even blamed the Nosferatu.

Just a shame that all the right moves were predictable as fuck.

>>51319720

That's not exactly how the archspheres work, Anon

>>51319733

Except the time delay doesn't add up

>>51319814

No

>>51319829
>That's not exactly how the archspheres work, Anon

Please enlighten me on how to roll a 12 or higher on a die with 10 sides, then.

>>51319832

Are you implying archspheres were made to be unusable?

>>51319827

The real player was Jack. You know this to be true.

>>51319842
>Are you implying archspheres were made to be unusable?

I'm not implying anything. Infer all you like.

I'm simply pointing out that under THE RULES OF THE GAME, chances of actually obliterating the universe with Forces 9 are 0.0002% - not impossible, but in all but 1 in 500,000 cases the Archmage is just going to get pulled into a Paradox Realm and come back as a Marauder. If it was as easy as you pretentious faggots claim, the Nephandi would have done it in 845 AD.

Game, set, match. Now fuck off pls.

>>51319814
I still don't get why he wanted to open the damn sarcophagus. Didn't Beckett tell him it of the ruse?

>>51319889

You're pretty much just stating that the archspheres are impossible to use. Which is the exact opposite of what was written about them. This isn't good game logic.

>>51319921
Your reading comprehension is atrocious.

I never said "impossible". I even quoted the chances, two different ways. You're just butthurt because it's so fucking difficult. Get over it. Moving along....

>>51319911
Beckett is obsessed with his quest, nothing more. Even if he'd tried to warn LaCroix, the temptation to diablerise what may have been an ancient vampire, to taste the sweet sweet vitae of something far older than he and gain greater power, was simply more than he could stand. Power corrupts, my friend....

>>51319953

So you truly believe that someone would write a supplement with abilities having success rates of 0.0002% .. .. ..? I don't know what to say to that. Either you're trolling or in denial that a game-line has such capabilities. I hope it's the former. No one should be this hung up over splat balance. it's sad

>>51316268
>how many fucking dice of paradox is that exactly?
>still playing with fucking coincedental/vulgar distinction

In my games Mages don't fucking exist because they're FUCKING BULLSHIT MAGES GET OUT

IGNORE THE MAGE SUPREMACISTS

So which Path sucks the most? And why is it Moros?

Are there witches in either cWod or CofD? Or is that just female mages?

>>51320184
>So which Path sucks the most? And why is it Obrimos?

Which Path is objectively the most powerful?

>>51320199
Prime is good.

>>51320204
Acanthus, this isn't even open to discussion.

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>>>/trash/7330888

Can spells have Indefinite Duration on living targets in 2E Mage?

>>51320293

Yes, they can be Indefinite or Lasting, although the spells would still be subject to Dissonance.

>>51320228
Okay, so how do we fix Acanthus so they stop being such a Mary Sues?

>>51317051

That movie is so fucking embarrassingly shit

>>51319814
LaCroix wasn't a terrible prince, but he should have reconsidered his plans to get rid of the neonate if their loyalty was proven. I wish there was an option to support the Camarilla without backing him or Strauss, since both are backstabbing snakes.

>>51317233

I don't know... if there was ten of what basically amounts to serial rapists in a town I think that would get huge attention.

>>51317051
Ratio to other changelings or to mortals? And Dreaming or Lost?

>>51317051
Can a mage that is good at rapping use his rhymes as yantras?

>>51320874

He would need to be Free Council, take the Techne Merit, and choose music as his focus.

In limited circumstances, if appropriate to a particular spell, the rapping might be also considered an Environmental Yantra.

>>51319991
What's the point of it being the ultimate power if anybody could do it?

Stop huffing paint

Mages are even that good to do all that amazing shit they have to be in a group and take an entire week to do their faggy ritual casting

So I don't know how much this is asked, what happened to cause a split between WoD and CoD? What are the differences between the games? Does CoD have the same groups of supernaturals or new groups?

What I really want is more official Legacies, so I have more points of reference when making my own.

The 11st Question is great and all, but I need more context, more cues on how far you can push the boat out and bend the rules.

Perhaps even an explained workthrough of legacy creation.

>>51321022
nWoD was created to be an entirely new universe, with a number of recycles names, and with far less official metaplot.

CofD was a rebranding of nWoD when Paradox took the license and decided that people were too confused by there being two Worlds of Darkness.

Declaring that there was only one World of Darkness, and that the other game line was henceforth Chronicles of Darkness.

To be honest, I think CofD got off better for it.
No more people mistaking it for Vampire the Masquerade when I talk about it.

>>51321034

DaveB promised to release more sample legacies, as well as antagonist material cut from the core and the Mage FAQ, soon after Mage 2e's release.

Sadly, it appears that his real life and commitment as the developer of Deviant has indefinitely delayed this bonus Mage material.

>>51321054
So there's just no more nWoD officially but the same rules are called CoD now? Still has the mortals + supernaturals splats? I liked that model, but I've never played much WoD overall anyway.

Are practitioners of Vicissitude beautifully inhuman or inhumanly beautiful?

>>51321088
Yes for both questions.

>>51321152
Really makes you think why the Toreador don't learn it

>>51320707
Well, that sorta comes with the territory of being a vampire. But Strauss really didn't do any backstabbing. He didn't agree to move against LaCroix until you show up with testimony that LaCroix is working with the Kuei Jin.

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Can werewolves eat chocolate in their various wolf forms?

>>51321221
I always got the feeling that Strauss is much more dangerous than he seems, and he's a Tremere. Everyone knows you can't trust the Tremere.

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Would you accept an argument that a Thompson SMG should be damage 5 in V20, considering the "heavy pistol" they have an example of is a .45 ACP and D5?

>>51321313
t. three eyed diablerist freak

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>>51321397
t. false vampire and probably diablerist as well.

>>51321313
The malkavian player calls him the man with the iron crown around who dances the jester king

It's unfortunate that DaveB doesn't much post here anymore.

When he used to release spoilers like the one recently for Signs of Sorcery, with his participation, we actually had interesting and relatively mature discussions. Now, it's little more than old rehashed Mage supremacy memes and edition wars.

I hope Sign of Sorcery is released soon, and with an actual new supplement, the level of discourse improves. Deviant Open Development blog posts would also be great, and hopefully detract from the nasty Beast discussions.

>>51321665

>the level of discourse improves

What will actually happen is that someone will cherry pick something about it they don't like and then the thread will argue about it for a thread or two, and then it's back to the usual shitposting.

>>51317578
I would say Prommies are higher. You generally don't expect them to go all out, because of Wasteland they would cause, but if they ignore that, they can be truly terrifying.

>>51321665

Signs of Sorcery will probably increase, rather than ameliorate, the mage supremacy posts.

I'm more curious what the release of A Thousand Years of Night, and new powers for elder vampires, will have on the discussion.

>>51321846

Pretty much nothing because Mage Supremacy is a particularly seductive kind of bait. All you really need to do is just say "Well that can be done with Sphere/Arcana X" in response to whatever Devotions and such Elders get and you're off to the races.

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So whose symbol is this cute little vamp skull? It's in both Masquerade and Requiem

>>51321925
It's for vampires in general, I assume. I think the one you posted comes from Requiem for Rome.

What Seeming/Kith would a Changeling based on a dakimakura be?

>>51322678
t. weaboo

So has anyone ever done much with Fetches in Changeling?

As a mate of mine told me of a game where two people in the group played a Changeling and a Fetch - where the Fetch was a Hunter (it was a crossover game)

So two sort of stupid questions.

1) in V:tM, does a vampire know when he's about to go into torpor, or does he go to sleep one night and wake up 6 centuries later?

2) If you removed a vampire's canines but left him alive, would he starve to death?

>>51323205
>1
I think it's dependant on the situation. In the clan novels it's even suggested they can voluntarily go to torpor. Going torpid might be a surprise in the case of sudden agg dmg.
>2
No, they can drink blooderino just like anyone else. No need for teeth there.

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I don't even play any of these games, I just like reading the fluff and some of the artwork is pretty decent.

>>51321034
>11st Question
>elevirst question

But speaking of making your own legacy, I've been trying to come up with one for a Moros that adds Space as a Ruling Arcana. Maybe something along the lines of travelling through shadows like a Percy Jackson hellhound or something.

>>51323284
>artwork is decent
You must have never read Mage the Awakening

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>>51323524

I was fairly specific in saying:

>some of the artwork is pretty decent.

Emphasis on the "some".

>>51323524
But the first edition Mysterium were all dick girls.

>>51323621
Hot

As expected of Mage, they got the best girls

I have a question about Descent Demons. Aside from perfect memory and speaking all languages do they have any other abilities that are superior that don't come from Embeds, Exploits, or Demonic Form?

In the book it says "Angels perceive the world with all five human senses. Those senses are all much sharper than a human’s, however. Angels can see a broader range of electromagnetic radiation, hear the sound of a human’s cells humming away beneath her skin, taste and smell the tiniest specks of organic matter, and feel sharply enough to read print with their fingers or diagnose engine trouble by the vibrations traveling up the steering column."

Although it later says that Angels loose the stream of information from the God-Machine do they still keep their extreme perception?

>>51322805
One of the hunters in my hunter the vigil game I'm running agreed to be an unknowing fetch.

It's gonna be fun to set that plot hook into action

>>51321074
I'm kind of hoping that stuff got folded into signs of sorcery, or tome of the pentacle but I haven't seen anything confirming that.

>>51321152
Generally neither, most Tzimisce make themselves look like HR giger rip offs.

That being said I did once play a Tzimisce who instead used it to make herself look gorgeous.

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Guys These are my spelling casting dice right? We use different dice to cast right?

>>51324224
It'd be weird not too.

>>51320707
>LaCroix wasn't a terrible prince

Literally everyone knew everything he was trying to do. He was a terrible Prince because he was completely unsubtle. The best he could do is use Ming Xiao to frame Nines, but no one appeared to believe him. Note that even after Nines is framed, none of the vampires in the city seem to take the blood hunt very seriously.

The only reason LaCroix lasted more than five minutes in LA was because he had a fuckhuge 7th-Generation (at least) Nagaloper backing him up unquestioningly for no apparent reason. Without the Sheriff, LaCroix would have been ashes almost immediately. He saw himself as some kind of grand schemer, but the truth is that LaCroix was being used and manipulated by every faction (Ming Xiao for the Kuei-jin; Jack for the Anarchs; his obsession with the sarcophagus blinded him to the threat of the Sabbat which suited Andrei's purposes; and Strauss' policy was to just keep feeding him rope until he hung himself).

Even the Neonate arguably plays LaCroix.

Who was your favorite villain in your games, both WoD and CoD?

>>51324361

>for no apparent reason

Probably a blood bond.

>>51324392

God.

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Completed the "Others" section, including Laibon and Kuei-jin. I'll admit I cheated with the Laibon by just providing their stats and Disciplines, adjusted for V20 (i.e., I didn't provide any KotEK Disciplines or Discipline variants, I just said to use Protean or Vicissitude).

I originally had a more complete write-up of the Kuei-jin that gave an overview of their society, but I decided to instead limit myself to things that the Kindred actually know about them.

I may or may not do a "Cainites of the East" write-up at some point, giving advice on how to run Asian vampires as bloodlines of the Clans and ultimately descended from Caine rather than a distinct supernatural race.

Anyway, next step: Mortals! Current plans are for:

CELEBRITIES
Actor
Author
Musician
Radio DJ

CIVILIANS
Perfectly Ordinary Citizen
Mechanic
Priest
Private Eye
Reporter
Taxi Driver
Terrorist

CRIMINALS
Drug Dealer
Gang Thug
Gang Leader
Mafia Enforcer
Mafia Padrino
Professional Assassin
Professional Thief

GOVERNMENT
CIA, Paper-pusher
CIA, Field Agent
Politician, Jaded
Politician, New

HUNTERS
Arcanum Explorer
Arcanum Scholar
Order of St. Leopold
Order of St. Leopold Veteran

LAW ENFORCEMENT
Bounty Hunter
Crime Lab Technician
Police Officer
SWAT Officer

Any further suggestions?

>>51324612
Whoops, "Terrorist" should have been in the Criminals section.

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>>51324361
LA had been Anarch country for half a century, and most of the locals didn't like the Camarilla and prefer Nines and his merry men. His few "supporters" weren't very staunch: Gary deserts him, Therese was mad, Grout was madder and suspicious of him (for the right reasons, but perhaps if he was less paranoid someone else would have been assassinated), Strauss cared mostly about his own advancement, who the hell knows about Tung's endgame, and Ming Xiao was a filthy Cathayan whom he knew would betray him as soon as she could.
He was perfectly aware of his precarious situation and that everyone wanted him dead or gone. LA was a poisoned gift, and LaCroix played with the hand he was dealt.
Jack's plan was completely retarded though, and relied on way too many things going his way to be considered a real plan and not a stupid joke to cause even more trouble for everyone, including his Anarch friends.
Where do you get that the Nagloper is 7th generation?
>>51324562
Maybe they were friends, or the Nagloper had some sort of debt to him. I'm sure LaCroix is a perfectly charming man when he's not being a smug, pompous snake.

>>51324771

>friends
>LaCroix

>>51324771
I believe that the assumption stems from the fact that the Sheriff can assume the Chiropteran Marauder form, which is an Elder power

>>51324839
>friends
>vampires

>>51324839
Everyone is your friend when they are under a full Blood Bond

Can anyone claim the title of fallen True Fae? Or do you have to have some connection to Arcadia/Fae?

>>51324863

Nah, they can have friends.

Look up Lucita and Anatole, for example.

There's others too.

>>51324870

Tremere,jpg

>>51324771
The Sheriff takes on what the game explicitly identifies as a "chiropteran form" for his last boss battle, which is a 6th level Vicissitude power, which thereby requires 7th Generation at the highest.

>and LaCroix played with the hand he was dealt

He played it exceedinly poorly. Among toher things he should have been trying to ally with the anarchs against the Kuei-jin rather than vice-versa. If LaCroix had swept into town as "the savior of the Anarchs from the Jade Invasion" instead of "Daddy's home, fall in line children", a lot of younger Anarchs would have probably bought his line, and even the older ones might have grumbled but also would have had little choice but to accept his help, especially if it genuinely came with no strings attached and LaCroix just gradually built up more support.

Instead...ever play Diplomacy? Diplomacy is a board game where betrayal is a central theme. The thing is that a lot of players will hear this and so betray everyone at the first opportunity...and as a result no one ever trusts them, and so they lose constantly.

A true master of Diplomacy is someone who realizes that you can't have a game about betrayal unless the game is also built on trust. The strongest possible move in Diplomacy, bar none, is to make an alliance with just one other player and stick to it no matter what happens. Two players who constantly support one another against the other five and never betray anyone until the endgame, when it's just down to them anyway, are virtually unstoppable.

>>51324908
LaCroix could have played nice with the Anarchs, but the problem is that none of them wanted to be "saved" by him. Only Therese and Tung vaguely support the Camarilla, and they're small players compared to Nines and Isaac, who barely deal with him and want him gone. I'm convinced that if it wasn't for the sarcophagus he would have had more luck, but it's idle speculation.

Has anyone ever had a player play a human who became a Sin-Eater? A friend of mine wants to try

>>51319028
Do Archmages actually become this powerful in Ascension? Why do the other supernaturals exist at all then?

>>51325134
I haven't, but what are your doubts? Are you unsure about which Threshold and Archetype to pick? Trouble with designing the Geist?

>>51325017
>Only Therese
If Jeanette is the one who survives she won't support the camarillas.

>>51325217
Yes, but Therese and Therese/Jeannette support the Camarilla.

>>51325017
>Nines
>a big player
>just sitting around his bar and whining

>>51325161
Because God exists in oWoD (although whether or not he's the Judeo-Christian one is up to debate), and he doesn't care about Sphere ratings, Paradox, Consensus, or anything else. If anyone tries to do something that exceeds how he wants things to be, he smacks them down.

In V20 what skill attribute combo would it be to shoot a bow and arrow

>>51325161

Archmasters, at least as portrayed in Masters of the Art, will totally break any chronicle and the setting.

Regular Ascension masters are already ridiculously uber-powerful. It's why Phil Brucato intentionally and emphatically did not include any 6+ Spheres in M20, despite the inclusion of level 6+ Disciplines and similar powers in V20.

What's the pros and cons of using a spell as a rote or as a praxes?

From my reading of the rules a rote spell is most useful on an straight forward effect that requires a lot of reach or large dice pools due manipulation of spells factors and a praxes is handy for dealing with withstand or a spell that you'll be spam casting anyway for mana and willpower management.

Has anyone done any math on this?

>>51325240
A man is only as strong as the people who follow him, and we're told by various sources that he's got plenty of kids joining his Merry Men.

>>51321886

Adept-Master Acanthus/Fate mages can easily mimic Dark Decree. It's funny because it's easily the most powerful ability in Requiem.

>Mage Supremacy

>>51325295

A rote or praxis also doesn't cost a mana to cast if not from a mage's Ruling Arcana.

>>51325242

That's some nice fanfiction there, Anon

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Mastigos or Arcanthus? Who's stronger?

>>51325242
>Because God exists in oWoD
Does he though?

>>51324863
>vampires
>lawn chairs

>>51325344
>Caine is literally the Biblical Cain
>his city was destroyed by the Biblical flood
>he was directly cursed by the Archangels
>God isn't objectively real in oWoD

>>51325363

He exists, but appears to mostly be an absentee after he cursed Caine.

>>51325324
What's Dark Decree?

>>51325361
Acanthus. And I say this as someone whose least favorite path is Acanthus and most favorite switches between Moros and Mastigos.

>>51319281

This is fucking hilarious.

>>51325361
Mastigos can do shit Acanthus flat up can't do.
But Acanthus has supreme power in the realm of mundane possibility.

A book I'm reading is referencing the WoD rulebook, where is this? The only things in the megabin that have that name are the WORLDS of Darkness setting books.

>>51325437
http://www.bearsinlove.net/temp/WoD/World%20of%20Darkness%20-%20Core%20Rulebook.pdf

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>>51325395

Night Horrors: Immortal Sinners, p. 132

>>51325462
Thanks bb.

>>51325494
>Vampire literally invents a true prophecy devotion out of laziness

That's pretty great, honestly

>>51325424
They can do that...? Did the Ascension writers enjoy fucking over the other game-lines?

>>51325628

Yet, an Adept or Master of Fate can do it better with far more complex and desirable outcomes.

>Acanthus Master Race
>Mage Supremacy

>>51325327
True but many spells have high mana costs from 'auto-success'/rote quality/dealing aggravated damage/etc. or paradox management

>>51325676
That...wasn't at all the point of that. Mummies can do that too. So can changelings probably, I don't know them well but it seems like it'd fit the fae touched thing. It isn't a matter of who can do it or do it better, it is a matter of the fact it was done out of laziness which is hilarious

IGNORE THE MAGE SUPREMACISTS

>>51325713
But I like responding to them!
It's fun!

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>>51325729

>>51319297
Don't act like the WoD isn't entirely for jacking off to power fantasies. Only difference between magefags and anti magefags is whether they want to be the boot or the face.

>>51325271
>m20 magic chapter wasn't shit

>>51319297

I would actually argue that it has great story potential.

>>51325810

Splat equality will never exist. When will they learn?

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I'll just leave this here...

>>51325952

Seems legit. I try to use all the Attributes equally but I'd be lying if I didn't say that I call on Strength the least.

>>51325361
>arcanthus
they're like the perfect action hero. They have literal plot armor and retakes. The only problem is if they come up against a literally impossible situation. they don't have their ruling arcane as mojo. Like jumping a canyon. Left to fate and time, they don't have jack shit to get across easily.

Meanwhile they can still do anything that's theoretically possible. Like the blind monk in SW:RO when he walk into open fire fight and didn't get shot. until after hitting the button And then you've got the higher level shit which is basically power of plot effects.

Arcanthus cheat by messing with RNG values. Mastigos cheat by screwing with the AI and no_clipping

It's not about which one is stronger it's about which one has more fireworks

>>51325636
>>51325713
>>51325780


Why do people despise Mage power levels so much? Do they actually think the core themes for both versions are nonexistent and out of place? It's like saying Vampire isn't a game about cursed undead parasites leeching off of society.

If you don't like the idea of Mage being potentially the strongest gamelines. Then don't use them? I feel like this board is full of PC turds who are obsessed with equality where it doesn't belong. WoD is already bloated with annoying SJWs as it is.

>>51326090

MAGEFAG GET OUT

>>51326090
>It's like saying Vampire isn't a game about cursed undead parasites leeching off of society.
Does that mean Vampires are neets?

>>51326090
only when magefags stop getting mad when the rules turn against them

>>51326150
>Does that mean Vampires are Jews?

>>51326239
just because the Nazi are back in power doesn't make their memes comedic

>>51326226
The exact opposite has been happening over the past four threads. Stop taking their bait and ignore them.

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>>51326134

>>51326368

Holy shit

So the Technocracy sounds neat.
I love the Sabbat too.

What antagonists do you like?

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Can I create a Sphere of Annihilation in Mage?

>>51326458
Matter 5, with Forces 3 you can also move it around

>>51326405
Technocracy is my favorite antagonists.

After that its probably custom villains, usually spirits, mythological figures, and vampires working for a personal agenda.

In my Mage campaign right now, one of the main villains is an old hispanic drug lord vampire who dresses in a white suit, has a gang with tons of vampire-ized enforcers in it, and is capitivated by magic [he was the apprentice of a thaumauturgy practicing vampire and he diablerized him].

I'm watching a bunch of clips of old vampire movies [like the 1931 Dracula] to try and give him that creepy vibe.

>But anon, what about Mage supremacy?

Not using the actual rulesets for spirits or vampires or other splats when they show up. Just stating out mortals then giving them a list of Sphere-derived Effects and an 'Arete' score. So he can dominate, turn into a bat, etc without messing around with the Discipline sub-system.

Ignoring Aspel was a mistake.

>>51326534

It's not that bad, things are pretty much like pre-2013 /WoDg/ now.

>>51326534
It brought out something far worse.

>>51326479
Fuck yes

>>51326458
Unmaking of Matter and Life imbued into a sphere.
Requiring Matter 5, Life 5, Prime 4.

>>51326737
Maybe Life, that's a point

Why Prime?

>>51326737
In fact, you'd also need Forces 4 in order to let it float.
So basically it'd be a weird creation of an archmaster.

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Since a lot of people here seem to come from way back when oWoD was still alive and kicking, do you have any film or TV shows recommendations to share? Vampire, Werewolf, Mummy, Demon or Wraith - I'm not picky.

>>51326756
To create the imbued item, otherwise it's a fixed point of unmaking which can't be moved.

>>51326788
That's why you use Forces 3 to move it optionally)

>>51326795
Doesn't work, Forces doesn't let you move a spell effect.
That's the practice of dynamics.
Which requires archmastery.

>>51326829
>That's the practice of dynamics.

Never heard of it, is that a thing from an older edition which explicitely doesn't apply anymore since Forces 3 can now control nuclear Forces when that used to be an archmastery effect?

>>51326777
oWoD did actually have a tv show. It only ran for eight episodes though, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindred:_The_Embraced

>>51326829
Not really, There's a spell in 1ED under Forces which also requires Mind. It lets you create a mobile spell with minimal intelligence.

I own the World of Darkness book the one with the guy walking away in the street (what version is that?), and I was wondering if I should buy this new one called Chronicles of Darkness or should I wait for them to update the rules again? Or am I better off just sticking with what I have? I play in own and run 5e and I really love that system and that Edition so I guess what I'm trying to do is get a feel for what I might enjoy. I also am the 7th edition COC but I haven't had a chance to read it yet. And I know that I like that game because I have listened to a lot of plays of it. Thoughts?

>>51326847
>>51326877
You're creating a self-modifying spell effect.
Can you add Forces to a Ban to allow you to move it?
If not, then there's no reason your side of matter annihilation should be able to be moved with forces, given that it's not a physical object which can actually be moved by the physical forces.

>>51326777
I personally recommend the 2008 Spanish Mage the Ascension show Paradigma.

Paradigma_2008_Complete_English_Subs
https://mega.nz/#!D8AAzABL!EYwlR-BUe-q7xBRbpqW1Zy_7j4-0DN2ewMRAI_-KDeI

>>51326777
I had a W:tA playing friend describe it to me as a Robot Chicken Captain Planet skit, so there's that.

What We Do In the Shadows is how V:tM LARPS tend to go, Underworld is basically some dude's Vamp/Werewolf game (WW even tried to sue), Blade II is the Trenchcoats and Katanas movie, Wanted is why we hate Ascension and why the Trads hate Euthanatoi.

Could you re-make Fiery Transformation as a 2e spell?

>>51327001
If you can't I'll cry. But there are no examples of combined spells currently printed for 2nd edition IIRC.

>>51327069
It would be a conjunctional spell not a combined spell. Forces •••• with Life •••• should do it.

>>51327140
That's the word. There aren't any printed examples though right?

>>51327161
No. Examples of more complicated spells will be in signs.

>>51327001
Fiery Transformation (Forces ••••, Life ••••)
Practice: Patterning
Primary Factor: Duration
Suggested Rote Skills: Athletics, Science, Medicine
The Mage becomes a living being of fire, maintaining her physical attributes possessed before the change.
If the Mage comes into contact with any non-fireproofed substance, roll dice equal to Potency, and deal fire damage equal to successes.
In addition, increase unarmed melee damage bonus by Potency, which becomes lethal damage.

Personally I don't like the spell, you're basically just setting yourself on fire, it doesn't do any of the cool "I'm now a manifested physical reaction, fuck your bullets" stuff.

>>51317305
>>51319028
>>51319281
>>51326090
I fucking hate mage supremacists sometimes
>>51319297
Exactly this
>>51326368
He was joking. Not that it isn't true. It's just fucking annoying.

>>51327235

Bullets can hurt fire? Never knew.

>>51327235
To change it, I'd say that all physical attributes become equal to Potency, and you gain a flight speed equal to Potency*2+5.
You are also immune to most sourcces of harm bar those that would extinguish your fire, or disrupt your form.

>>51324612
Loser/neet in civilians

I can serve as inspiration

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>>51326869

Knew about that one already, but thanks anyway.

>>51326919

>MtA

Yeah, I left out the Mage stuff because I'm just not interested in that kind of stuff. But I'll take a look into it anyway, not like I got anything better to do.

>>51326940

Already watched all of that.

>>51327456
>MtA
That's fair.
I paid like 200 bux to get it subbed so I'm shilling it to get my money worth.

>>51327496

Oh wow.

Wouldn't it have been just cheaper to learn Spanish?

>>51327235
>Personally I don't like the spell, you're basically just setting yourself on fire, it doesn't do any of the cool "I'm now a manifested physical reaction, fuck your bullets" stuff.

Yeah. Which is why I asked if one could do it old-style in 2e.

>>51327519
It probably would have been. But you should know that money fixes everything. Haven't you played WoD before? High resources is a better master race than being a mage. Though it also technically could make you a mage if you look at the Syndicate.

>>51327616
No it fucking isnt stop fucking lying

>>51327616

>Haven't you played WoD before?

Nope, I just like the fluff.

>>51327616
>Implying anything is superior to a mage
Stop bullshitting

Will Demon the Fallen ever get a 20th anniversary release? Or Wraith?

>>51327734
Sadly this is the same boat I'm in unless I run a game.

>>51328060

I just don't have the time to actually play anything since I started working.

>>51327751
>Implying the dominate Paradigm of capitalism isn't the best magic.

>>51327859
Maybe when they hit their 20 year marks. Which is a ways off. For Demon that's 2022. I own all the rest of them in print I'd love a D20 endcap for them.

>>51328078
Being an adult is the worst. Guess Changeling the Dreaming was right after all.

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>>51328132

Yeah, worst part is I work 3 weeks of night shift, then 1 week of first shift, and it just keeps rotating me like that, so that I sometimes forget what daylight looks like. Got a coworker who's been working the night shift for 2-3 months now. It's fucking insane. I mean, even if I find a group in one of the timezones appropriate for me, it still gets fucked up by that change in between shifts, so I'm just stuck at reading the books for fluff.

I'm looking to save up enough money for some of the oWoD stuff, mostly VtM related. Definitely looking forward to buying the VtDA 20th Anniversary.

At risk of reigniting something awful. I have to ask. Why are Mages considered to be supreme in both settings, exactly? I always assumed them to be generalists rather than specialists. Aren't they relatively weak in combat? I never considered an individual Mage to be an actual threat to an individual Vampire.

My knowledge of both Mage gamelines is poor so feel free to scold my ignorance. I mainly play Requiem and Changeling.

>>51328201
>dat pic

benis?

>>51328280

They can do absolutely insane stuff if they get tricky and clever enough.

>>51323723
Aside from forms there are some merits that do that.

>>51326940

What we do in the Shadows had some funny moments but overall it fell extremely, embarassingly flat for me. My friend actually got angry at the movie he thought it was so shit. I'm kind of agreeing with him, the whole movie followed an extremely lazy setup of expectation -> lazy predictable subversion -> humor? My sister loved it though, so whatever floats you boat I guess. I did like the absolutely embarrasing werewolf-almost-brawl though, because I played Werewolf a bit before and that scene was just so fucking cringey.

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>>51328280
They're quoting what stupidly high level mages can do, which it is totally true, they're ridculously powerful, but they also ignore all of the stuff in the game thats designed to kick you in the dick for doing that (like being shunted out of reality) and ignoring the fact that doing those effects is fuckibg hard. It is akin to people claiming that casters are gods in d20 derived settings, yes it is true...in a complete vacuum and without any intervening factors. Vampires usually have a fuck ton of respurces beyond their own individual persons, allies, retainers, etc. Werewolves can attack mages through an uncommonly used sphere (Spirit, which 1/3 or so of mages are straight just not supposed to learn...), as can Demons. Wraiths and Changelings are everybody's bitches though, they're mostly good at foo-fooing about in their own little subcultures. The Wraith Banking Arcanoi isn't going to be any help against Prime Blasts or whatever the fuck.

>>51328334

Yes, but how does that make them so much more capable than the others? Changelings can also get tricky and clever. Vampires are insanely strong and fast with years of acquired experience.

The "supremacy" of Mage feels more like a watered down meme rather than something to be taken seriously. Where's the actual basis for them being the most powerful splat? I don't see any.

>>51328511
>No basis
>Has the highest tier powers printed in any WoD source material
Pick one

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which one of you faggots wrote this?

>>51328475
I think >>51317878 had a good counter argument going against the notion that magic is difficult in Ascension. Four Spheres capable of pre-determining rolls is nothing to be scoffed at. You must also remember that Paradox isn't meant to make magic harder, it's meant to make it dangerous, questionable and potentially lethal. Your limited amount of dice (Arete) is what makes magic so tricky. Once you can prepare like a D&D Wizard, I don't think much is going to stand in your way other than being afraid/paranoid of Paradox.

>>51328511

They can do things others cant. Jump in time, erase things, completely rewrite stats, transmute their enemies into other things given enough success and power, just blast pure sunlight from their fingertips into the face of a vampire, lots of stuff. I'm talking 1ed nWod now, I've never played the others.

>>51326066
>It's not about which one is stronger it's about which one has more fireworks
So that'd be neither and Obrimos wins right?

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>the Fairest only has Striking Looks 2

>>51328511
Mages have a very potent mix of raw power and flexibility. They're also arguably the best splat at gathering knowledge and being prepared, so it would be very hard to catch them with their pants down. A mage expecting trouble from a vampire could, for example, craft a fire spirit fetish or learn some fire spell rotes. Or they could just use magic to avoid them entirely. And of course there are master level displays of power, like outright annihilating them or conjuring up some sunlight. As for changelings, a fate mage could outright annul their contracts and leave them powerless.

All this cosmic level shit is fun to make people salty with, but it is very true that a mage presents a big threat, and a cabal of them would make even the most experienced vampires and trickiest changelings have second thoughts.

>>51326090
It breaks my suspension of disbelief. Mages are so powerful and versatile I'm honestly baffled why most Vampire domains aren't secretly controlled by the Seers and things like that. If they actually were, that opens up a completely different can of worms.

>>51328986
>>51328808

Yes, but where are all the world shattering powers entertaining the idea that they can out-power Methuselahs and True Fae and such others?

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>>51326322
Heys guys these are casting dice it's cool right.
I mean how else you going to roll a 12 in this system?

>>51329153
Those would be the domain of Archmages and Oracles, who can basically do whatever the fuck they want with their Arcana/Spheres.

>>51329090
It is mostly one of focus, Mages are notoriously up their own ass, and so the goings-on of their 'inferiors' don't generally deign their attention, Seers are focused on fighting the Pentacle and reinforcing the Lie, with a similar deal with the Technocracy. They just don't have the tike to police all of it, there's too few of them as it is.
>>51328809
I don't know, some of that Moros shit is flash as hell
>not being a gold-encrusted skeleton.

>>51329153
Doesn't really matter how strong you are if your opponent can overcome your defenses with an exceptional success and their isn't anything you can do about it. Or trap you in a pocket dimension until you die. Or turn your clothes into sodium and water, or go back in time and kill you before you have any means of fighting back, or put a curse on you so suddenly your in a Final Destination movie, or sick a bunch of powerful spirits or ghosts on you, or a bunch of other things.

>>51329288
Seers are all about control though, and Vampires have a lot of fingers in a lot of pies and don't have to worry about Paradox. Plus do to their age and connections they could probably ferret out a lot of mysteries. It's not like it would be hard, a single Cabal of middling power has the power to kill every Vampire in a city.

So i am reading secrets of the covenanta by pieces. First i read the 1st covenant book and then their chapter in SotC and what was the point of SotC? Like there was a mission statement for the book?

It doesnt really give info on how the covenants works. As a setting book it just showcases special snowflake cities with little explanation in how they came to be and very little meat to them. I feel i paid to read some poorly wrote fiction and some wacky mechanics

>>51329192

Ok... But isn't there a big difference between the capabilities of Ascension Archmages and Awakening Archmages ?

>>51329290

But can they really do that? That seems a bit overpowered.

I'm really confused as to how 2e works. What books are good for 2e play? Is 2e even out yet?

>>51329513
Chronicles of Darkness (CofD) is Nwod 2e

There's a core, then Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Beast, Promethean and basically Demon

No supplements, only core books

>>51329560
>No supplements, only core books

That's a lie.
CofD has gotten Hurt Locker
Vampire has gotten Secrets of the Coventants
Werewolf has gotten The Pack
Demon has gotten Storyteller's Guide, Heirs to Hell, Flowers of Hell and Interface (which is a collection of stories with rules added afterwards.)
There is also Dark Eras.

>>51329365
From a mage perspective, vampires are merely a curiosity or more trouble than they're worth. Mages are also heavily discouraged by their kin to not get dragged into the politics of other supernaturals, and the ones that do are mistrusted. Vampires are very influential, and if bribing a mage with money and promises of power doesn't work, then they can actually be dominated if they don't have the Mind to defend against a high blood potency.

Seers are all about controlling Sleepers, and while the high society manipulator might brush shoulders with the Invictus from time to time, it is highly unlikely that he would need them badly enough to risk all the drawbacks, or that the idea of using them would occur to him when he could just directly control a just as influential Sleeper with a Profane Urim.

And that's not even getting into the vampire side of things. Mages that disregard the stigmas and start trucking with vamps anyway are prone to end up dead if they start learning things that are beyond common knowledge, because few things get a Prince as nervous as a mage that starts sticking his nose where it doesn't belong.

>>51329487
Awakening Archmages don't get all the cosmic shit, but they're still crazy powerful and also immortal (don't age), meaning that they can keep on mastering the Arcana.

>But can they really do that?
Yeah.
>That seems a bit overpowered.
It is. That's the point. It's balanced in game by other mages being able to counterspell or otherwise withstand effects, but other supernaturals aren't as lucky. Crossover balance is a big issue, even when mages aren't involved.

someone give me a rundown of what CofD/WofD is, I'm looking for a new game to play and this looks like it could be neat.

>>51329610
>Vampires are a threat to Mages
They're not

>>51328730

Someone with taste.

File: werewolf rage.jpg (226KB, 1680x1050px) Image search: [Google]

226KB, 1680x1050px

>>51329697
Storyteller system is built for drama and character interaction above everything else. There's no loot; money is literally bought with XP as a merit (Resources, to be specific).

oWoD/Classic Wod: Things bigger than you are manipulating the world for their own ends and have been doing so since time immemorial. The world is ending. Find your place in the end of all things.

nWod/Chronicles: The world is dark and mysterious and full of things that want to devour you. You have to deal with this on top of your own horrifying dual existence caught between two worlds. Your worst enemy is yourself. Find your place in the food chain and seek your personal paradise, be that Golconda or Ascension or Hell.

Mechanics of Chronicles are far smoother and more streamlined, but it's lacking in the flavor Classic World of Darkness has. There's no metaplot in CofD, make your own shit. Classic is easier to build on.

>>51329610
>And that's not even getting into the vampire side of things. Mages that disregard the stigmas and start trucking with vamps anyway are prone to end up dead if they start learning things that are beyond common knowledge, because few things get a Prince as nervous as a mage that starts sticking his nose where it doesn't belong.
But that's the problem. The entirety of a city's Vampire population couldn't stop a prepared Cabal. Even if the Vampires managed to score some sort of victory, Time can be used to wipe the slate clean and the Vampires wouldn't even realize what happened.

>>51329700
>They're not
Yes, haha, Mage Supremacy, well memed.

Mages are the most powerful splat, it's true. This does not mean that your average mage is an invincible god. He is a fleshly human underneath all that mage armor, and if a Prince wants him dead he definitely has the means to see him dead, from hiring mortal hitmen to put a bomb under his car to tasking a powerful coterie to stalk him and put him down at the first opportunity. A smart mage could handle both, but a mage who can't see how dangerous it is to get too involved with vampires is not smart.

So he ends up dead, like most dumb things in the World of Darkness.

>>51329777
Yeah, that's why for the most part they don't interact. A vampire can be dangerous for a Mage the same way a gun or a wild animal can be. Only an idiot wouldn't have some minor protection in place to negate it. Vampires aren't worth dealing with, the rules that govern their existence are different from the rules Magi use. At best they're beneath you, at worst they're a nuisance. Forget the Kindred. You've got your own shit to worry about.

>>51329697
>>51329773
I would like to point out there is a lot of fluff in CofD so it isn't like you'd be flying blind. In my opinion it has more variety and more enjoyable powers. In my opinion Vampire Disciplines and Werewolf Gifts in CofD are more enjoyable than the stuff Masquerade and Apocalypse provide.

The WoD is a product of its time, which can be good or bad depending on what you're looking for.

>>51329773
alright, that seems like it could be pretty neat if there was a way I could get a group of people NOT wanting to murderhobo through a session. Would there be a way to run a decently bloodthirsty session without detracting too heavily from the intended setting?

are there any other magic realism engines that are decent, or is C/WoD the only real option?

>>51329819
This, Chronicles (especially second edition) has a lot of material to work with, but it's more like a set of Lego in comparison to Classic's established sets and tropes. There's no de facto bad guys anywhere in Chronicles. But there's a variety of potential bad guys to exploit.

>>51329817
If you gain control of the Vampires, you gain control of their influence and knowledge. Can you imagine the things you could discover with several Elders digging around for you?

>>51329813
Mages aren't lone wolves, almost all of them are a part of a Cabal exactly to prevent situations like that. If you don't take out every single member in one go, you're going to have a bad time.

>>51329777
A whole cabal of mages that fuck around with vampires too much are more likely to just be put down by another cabal for being stupid troublemakers.

>>51329866
You could discover that although they don't perform supernal magic themselves they might be aware of how to operate within its rules, and eventually turn you into dinner. You're a terrifying liability to them, not to mention a wrench in their machinations. You'd do better to just ignore them.

>>51329677
Archmages aren't inherently immortal. It's true that while they reside within their golden road/chantry they don't age. However when they come to the fallen world they will still age like anyone else assuming they haven't turned themselves immortal with magic.

Even after an archmage 'dies' it doesn't necessarily mean you're done hearing from him since imperial magic doesn't worry about minor things like causality.


It's a subtle but important distinction.

>>51329866
>Mages aren't lone wolves, almost all of them are a part of a Cabal exactly to prevent situations like that
Yeah, but not all cabals live together in a sanctum. What's more, if said nosy mage disappeared, there would be no investigation because a Prince would fucking tell a Hierarch what happened and why it happened, and that it shouldn't happen again.

"If they discover
they’re being studied by outsiders, older
vampires tend to kill mages, burn their books
and use Consilium back-channels to suggest
that the local Hierarch never, ever allow this
to happen again". -Mysterium, p.52

That's from a Mage book so you know it isn't Vampire wanking. The stuff that you're saying is literally hubris, which is the downfall of even the most powerful mages.

>>51330044

>if a Prince wants him dead he definitely has the means to see him dead

The Prince would be risking far more than the involved Mage. Quite literally. A single Cabal is far more dangerous than any given Prince. By a massive margin. Influence and assets don't mean much to a Cabal as they don't play by the rules. Catching a sufficiently observant Mage is extraordinarily difficult and nearly impossible if they are of the Acanthus Path. You're placing far too much credit on the Vampires here.

>>51330044

>Oh look, outdated source material

If you honestly believe that Vampire society is taken seriously by the Pentacle Orders, I don't know what to say to you.

>>51330167
Idk those Mysterium dick girls seem trustworthy to me.

>>51330027

Dave has been very adamant about Archmasters not being immortal. It would be more accurate to call them half ascended/half immortal.

They can become ever living using the Practice of Excisions/Entities, however.

>>51330586

>>51330167
You're giving too much credit to Mages. A Prince is a highly influential figure with vast resources and he can have a Mage killed, or an entire Cabal.

For example, he could convince a Praetorian pylon to carry out a hit, in exchange for either a ludicrous sum of money or several favors. I doubt they would need much convincing anyway, being mortal enemies of the Pentacle and all. And don't say "oh so he needs to resort to other mages to get something done". He doesn't. I figured that would be an example that would get through your thick skull.

Mages are powerful, and have a higher ceiling than any other splat. This does not make every Mage more powerful than anything else and it does not mean that a Cabal can do whatever they want with impunity. The fact that you think so is extremely ironic, because that kind of hubris and how stupid and dangerous it is is one of the core themes of the whole game.

Fuck me I don't even like Vampire and you've got me defending it.

Vampire/mage conflicts wouldn't be as common as you guys make it seem. The splats have wildly different interests and not many resources that they directly compete for.

Hell, werewolf/mage encounters are far more likely considering how much influence our furry friends have on the shadow.

These Vampire fucking shits need to learn their place. Mages can fucking unmake Vamps once they reach master level. Doesn't matter what path either since all of them one way or the other can unmake a vampire

>>51328286
No, the Tzimisce "girl" is the one with the dick

Now, here's the real question. Are Hunters the underdoggest or does something other than standard mortals manage to be worse than them?