/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

Is possible run a Slice of Life WoD game where there is no grand conspiracies? Maybe just your occasional monsterbof the week or mystery.

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>>51304370
>If mage is so good, then why hasn't it gotten a game or tv show huh?
Delete this.

>>51304370
BECAUSE ITS WAYY TOO FUCKING COMPLEX FUCK YOU FUCK YOUUU

>>>51304370 (OP)
>>If mage is so good, then why hasn't it gotten a game or tv show huh?

It did in 2008.

>>51304331
>and yet have a fraction of their flavor
The Seers have plenty of flavor. Different Ministries, different pylons, different motivations, methods, and stances. The technocracy might have more flavor but quantity =/= quality. In fact too much flavor often ruins the meal. Which is why the metaplot is being deliberately not bloated.

I don't even know why I'm still arguing with you. You're quite obviously biased and I doubt you've never even read all the way through a CofD book, let alone played a game.

>>51304354
>Youre fucking stulidbif you cant realize this is intentional because they want you to make the fluff.

I realize it's intentional, I know they want me to make the fluff. My argument is that this is a fundamentally bad thing. I'll take a jury-rigged version of Awakening's mechanics any day of the week, of course, but having fluff and metaplot is what made Ascension worth running and made it distinct and interesting from any other modern magic setting.

>>51304379
>The fledgeling is decidedly not. It's difficult, but not completely beyond the pale for him to develop that fast. Just hard.

Actually it pretty much is impossible going by a strict interpretation of the rules about how characters are supposed to earn experience. I realize that most vampires are pretty sedentary, but again, going from "I was literally Embraced last night" to "there is literally no one left in this city that can oppose me" over the course of what cannot be much more than a month on the outside, cannot happen.

Plus Andrei himself, and a few others, suggest that you're being enhanced somehow.

But yeah, it's Caine.

>>51304370
Mage got a movie, sort of. It was called Doctor Strange (and it wasn't any less accurate to the source material than Kindred: the Embraced was...).

The main evil mage is even basically a Marauder in principle, but with a Nephandi's power source.

>>51304376
Only humans have a connection to the Supernal Realms.

This thread is just going to turn into more Mage wankery because of stupid OP. Nice.

MAGE NUMBER ONE


I remember when we were bullied in this threads and I'm still upset.

>>51304482
He's talking about oWoD Mage you dumb fuck

>>51304494

These thread should be CofD only. I'm tired of oWoD fags drudging up their dead and gone game.

>>51304494

y'know don't use swears

>>51304515
>Old and dead
>Only game line actively in development that isn't contracted out and just had a new video game announced
Pick one

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>>51304515
They're so dead and gone that they still get new material published every few months. Or at least V20 does. I don't care about the rest, though nor do I wish them ill.

>>51304481
>My argument is that this is a fundamentally bad thing
It's fundamentally a perfectly serviceable and decent thing, if not outright better than just throwing a bunch of shit into a melting pot until it bubbles over and starts to smell like shit.

>>51304488

They picked on us and said we weren't the strongest splat! How could they say such a thing!

>>51304494
That's not nice.

>>51304543
Which is why Onyx Path are bothering to put all this time and effort into the 20th Anniversary stuff to shore up their bank accounts. Because the nWoD line was selling oh so well, clearly.

>>51304488
>the bullied become the bullies
Just like America.

>>51304573
Which, by the way, is another reason a Metaplot is a good thing, from a marketing standpoint. Every few years you can advance the Metaplot, which then lets you release new stuff that might not have a lot of mechanics in it but will fill you in on how things have changed thanks to the metaplot advancing.

Whereas when you're locked in stasis, what are you gonna do, reprint the same stuff with a few more spelling corrections? Create a whole new slew of mechanics that could easily lead to power creep?

Make a whole new splat and hope that the people who want to play wizards or vampires also want to play Otherkin?

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>>51304586
fuck off, eurofag

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>>51304608
I'm a redblooded American, son.

Bullying is the best.

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>>51304614
God bless you, you Yankee fuck.

>>51304573
Nostalgia sells. You'd have to be stupid not to capitalize on it. They aren't going to throw CofD out the window and start mainly selling oWoD again.

>>51304599
So basically metaplot is a good thing because you can use it sell watered down novels that have little to no impact on individual games?

How much supernatural fuckery is usually occurring in a large city?

>>51305075
A lot. A whole fucking lot. A city will at the very least have a vampire court and a mage consilium, which on their own makes for a bunch of supernaturals. Then there could also be urban werewolf packs, changeling motleys, and all sorts of spirits and monsters and ghosts. And more.

>>51305103
How would you rate populations for a 1 million large European city then? Are there any good guidelines?

>>51300064
>Which means that a Vampire facing a Gauru will still have higher defence than any Werewolf would.
Yeah, I meant it more like even though werewolves have shit defense, anyone who they fight has shit defense too, so it's essentially same as someone high def fighting another high def.

>Vampire can use it all the time, and do it with things like battle axes
If shit gets real, you need to go full dakka anyway, similarly weapons are usually good only against mooks, because they don't cause aggravated. Against mooks you won't need +damage either.

>>51300090
>No. Bites do Lethal, and claws do Bashing. Almost everything does Bashing to vampires. The fact that the weres do Lethal at all is impressive.
Anon was probably referring to eating flesh for essence, but according to RAW it works only against human and wolves (and presumably werewolves).

>>51300186
>beasts
You are still thinking in 1e. With exception of Mages and partially Vampires, 2e splats mostly don't improve radically their abilities after rolling character - Demons have all embeds and exploits available since start, same with Beasts and Prommies even Werewolves not counting Moon gift are same in this regard. And even with Moon gift or in Vampires' case disciplines, it isn't like the their 5 dot powers are significantly better than Beast's powers.

>hunter
In that case why not have just prepared everyone in mid tier?

>werewolves and defense
look up Gauru form bonus and Crushing blow.

>>51304515
>dead and gone game

They make lovely topical creams for sore anuses these days, Anon

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>>51304515
>"dead and gone game"
>still more popular
>players be like "why do you need a NEW world of darkness?"

LOL

For those who've read the new Hunter 2e spoiler, do you get the impression that the game will again basically ignore the other CofD gamelines, and focus on "generic" monsters and slashers?

I hope the new book deals with crossover issues, or the inevitable arguments will be unbearable.

>>51304672
>So basically metaplot is a good thing because you can use it sell watered down novels that have little to no impact on individual games?

There you are again, Aspel, confusing your personal tastes with good business acumen.

>>51305309
>do you get the impression that the game will again basically ignore the other CofD gamelines
How else are they going to survive against a Mage?

>>51305314
>There you are again, Aspel
IGNORE ASPEL

>>51305075
So much that I wouldn't be surprised if OPP start work on "Human: the Last Mortals", a game where you play an average joe, one of the last humans who hasn't had anything supernatural ever happen to them.

>PLAYER: I file my taxes!
>ST: Roll Intelligence + Finance. Do you have a Specialisation in Fiscal Responsibility?

So, how exactly does one run a Mage the Awakening game? I'm interested, but don't know exactly how to go about it. How do you go about mysteries? What are mysteries? Additionally, how would you say an Acanthus sees the world? Their Arcanum are fairly... Abstract.

>>51305172
First I need to know if you're talking Old World or Chronicles of Dickeggs.

>>51305333

You might want to wait for the release of Signs of Sorcery.

Issues like Mage Sight and other supernal abilities were be explained in far greater depth.

Mysteries (tm) are anything you want. That's one of the advantages of Mage as a gameline. What interests you and your players. Fighting anti-reality creatures? Exploring hidden ruins? Cryptids? Zombies, etc.?

Think of mages as detectives, and you chronicle as supernatural television detective serial or procedural.

You might also find inspiration in books series like the Dresden Files.

Ech I had one of owod orphans in my playgroup for some time but he dropped out quickly. Idea that his street thug biker vampire doesn't have to be brujah eluded him.

>>51305349
Cofd

>>51305361
Mage Sight has some pretty great rules, but what exactly does it count as a mystery? That's another thing I was wondering about. Also, is Acanthus Mage sight as meh as I think it is? Fate and Time don't seem all that useful for mage sight. Postcognition is pretty amazing, though.

>>51305333
I dunno, call me an old pulp fanatic but I thought the best "Mystery" model was something straight out of Indiana Jones. A global adventure, exotic locales, lost cities, ancient civilizations and a race against the antagonist(s) to locate a poorly understood artifact of legendary power. Watch some Mysterious Cities of Gold sometime, not enough games get set in Central and South America.

>>51305370
The official line was to make the numbers fit the atmosphere you want to run. If you want a small cast, limit vampire population to 1 for every 250,000 people. If you want a claustraphobic struggle for resources and a tense Masquerade, drop as low as 1 for every 50,000 or even 1 to 10,000 for a smaller city.

Here's a little light reading:
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/578305-how-many-monsters-are-in-your-city

>>51305405
Thanks mate

>>51305333
>So, how exactly does one run a Mage the Awakening game?
Take the official material and run with it.

> How do you go about mysteries? What are mysteries?
Mysteries are fucking mysteries dude. Like Scooby Doo shit. Or alternatively your players could just try to find out more about magic. If you're having trouble then there are books that you can use to help you out, like Reign of the Exarchs or Boston Unveiled. They won't run your game for you, of course, but they'll give you something to build on.

>how would you say an Acanthus sees the world?
Acanthus are stereotyped as being flighty and mysterious. Depending on how skilled they are, they can figure out a lot of things and see stuff coming from a mile away. An Acanthus focused on time could be paranoid and use their power to discern the outcome of every decision (not always the specifics, though) while one focused on Fate could be the exact opposite and just abuse Fate magic while throwing caution the wind.

>>51305382

Mage Sight is not a mystery by itself, but rather a means to discover and investigate Mysteries.

Peripheral Mage Sight alterns the mage to ANY supernatural shenanigans is his vicinity. Active and Focused Mage Sight reveal the clues to reveal greater and greater Mysteries.

Acanthus Mage Sight is no better or worse than any other Path. Acanthus, of course, will most easily reveal mysteries dealing with Fate and Time.

What symbols are revealed to each individual Path when using Mage Sight are more narrative flavor than mechanical limitation.

>>51305382
Fate mage sight can be pretty useful, showing who might have big roles in upcoming events and outlining significant and relevant things. Like if you were looking for someone that warded themselves against space magic and one of the players said "I'm tired, let's just call it a night and go back to the hotel" and another player had Fate mage sight up and saw that butterflies or a strands showed up when the player said "hotel". This could mean anything, like said person is staying in a hotel or that going back to the hotel will help, but they now definitely know that hotels are involved.

As far as I can tell Time Mage sight is only good for seeing Chronos shields and telling time.

Alright, anons, help me out here. The set-up:

You are a team of Wolf-Blooded and human hunters in Hong Kong that sort-of-know werewolves exist - shapeshifting wolf demon things. You have reason to loathe them, and you have recently been given significant patronage from a Mysterious Wealthy Backer to stir up an outright war between two Uratha packs in Kowloon, ideally so that the yao guai kill each other or at least spend all their time and resources fighting each other. Despite stumbling upon several of your operations and acquiring a lot of evidence of your attempts to attack each pack's assets and frame it as the actions of the other side, the Uratha don't yet seem to have cottoned on as to what's going on yet (players, man).

You know that the two packs are going to have a meeting in neutral ground tonight - a restaurant that is going to be cleared out for the booked timeslot. The yao guai are going to be there for one hour, two tops. You're expecting six to eight werewolves in total, plus one of the packs, the Pure, will possibly have some Wolf-Blooded flunkies, and maybe some humans too. You're pretty sure the Forsaken pack won't have any Wolf-Blooded because one of your guys put six bullets in their only 'tough' Wolf-Blooded an hour ago and he's either dead or hospitalised.

Your Mysterious Backer, who you suspect (but don't care) is probably a high-ranking Triad member sick of bullshit demons fucking with 14K operations in the area, is putting more pressure on you to Get This Done. The diplomacy meeting is probably the only chance you're gonna get like this, with significant numbers of both sides in one place.

So, how best to either inflict massive casualties on both sides or, better, to get them to fight one another without realising they're being manipulated - and, here's the kicker, *without any innocent casualties occurring?*

(1/2)

As far as you are concerned, the Wolf-Blooded and humans who side with the yao guai deserve everything they get. However, causing the Uratha to all hulk out in death rage and go on a killing spree in the middle of Kowloon is not an option. You're mostly the wrong side of crazed, but you believe yourselves to be the Good Guys and that means no innocents die.

You have half a dozen Wolf-Blooded with several powers of note:
- A regenerator
- A waystone
- A woman who emits an aura of desire and fogs peoples' minds.
- A man whose blood is nearly pure Essence.
- A man who can inflict the Berserk tilt on humans (but it is seriously draining and painful for him)
- One I have yet to define, but possibly a ritemaster-capable one.

And up to half a dozen humans. You have a small number of icons and statuettes marked with Pure and Forsaken signs, which you've been dropping at the sites of your activities to try and implicate each rival faction. You have a reasonably large amount of money, and also a reasonably large amount of cocaine. You have one industrial-strength pneumatic tool repurposed to fire large spikes; you had another, but the werewolves got hold of it, as well as the silver-coated spikes your machinist was making for it, so you just have regular ammunition for it. You have a moderate amount of silver; two knives, and the rest is just random bits and pieces of jewellery or the like. Finally, you have a bound fire elemental in a jar; break the container and the spirit is freed. This was originally supposed to be part of a self-directing incendiary bomb but things went south and you lost the actual bomb part; now you've just got the elemental.

You have four hours until the werewolves meet.

What's your best play to make this happen?

(2/2)

>>51305410
You're welcome, buddy!

>>51305364
>Hunter chronicle book features a section on slashers and "Monsters around the world" in the core book.

How'd they run out of core stuff?

>>51304435
>Is possible run a Slice of Life WoD game where there is no grand conspiracies? Maybe just your occasional monsterbof the week or mystery.

of course it is, thats was our last mage the ascension game and Werewolf the Apocalypse games.

Just need to make it clear from the start that the pc arent gonna change the setting.

>>51305958
I don't know how that ended up as a reply. I haven't even seen that post.

>>51305361
>Mysteries (tm) are anything you want. That's one of the advantages of Mage as a gameline. What interests you and your players. Fighting anti-reality creatures? Exploring hidden ruins? Cryptids? Zombies, etc.?

does zombies really count as a "mystery" when they can be created by any mage with death?

>>51306045
It's a mystery if those zombies are being made willy nilly and endangering the veil. Any mage with death becomes a suspect.

What generation and clan would be Dettlaff?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Td_aETp4I&t=272s

Sup guys, I'm going to run a Mage game of my own across Roll20 (and Discord).
So if you want to give it a shot, and can deal with the time I'm going to run it. Here's the link.

https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/1945652/mage-the-awakening-sydney

Also if nobody CAN make the time, I guess I can try and move it to Saturday evening, Australia time.

>>51306142
Well shit, my inexperience with Roll20 is showing. I'll need a fucking plus or pro account to make it public.

>>51305710
>rom a Mysterious Wealthy Backer to stir up an outright war between two Uratha packs

Sounds like a manipulative mage or vampire.

As to what the hunters can do, if innocents cannot be harmed and you want to avoid death-ranging werewolves, they answer is "not much."

>>51306129
Gangrel and definitely a single digit generation.

>>51306045
>does zombies really count as a "mystery" when they can be created by any mage with death?

"Zombies" are a broad category, including zombies unconnected with supernal magic.

They mystery is also usually they why and how. For instance, in a particular city, why is everyone who's left handed and died after midnight rising as a zombie?

>>51306172
It's actually 'just' the incense master of the 14K triad, who is sick of the Pure pack's influence on the triad and the Forsaken's refusal to let 14K activities take place on their turf. He's clued-in enough on the occult to have a good idea of what's going on, though still has only an incomplete picture.

Note that the hunters don't want to necessarily avoid any death-rages whatsoever - they just want to avoid a situation where it spills out of the restaurant and onto the street.

>>51306196

Once a werewolf or two enters death rage, I don't there's any chance of it not spilling out of the restaurant.

I believe the best option is to try to ambush one of the packs on the way to the meet and try to frame the other pack as a deadly violation of the truce meeting.

Direct conflict at the restaurant is very risky, including revealing to both packs that they're being manipulated. This could really screw up the plans of the triad if the packs actually temporarily joined forces to eliminate a mutual threat.

Also, what's going on with the packs' totems? They would ostensibly provide additional firepower and options for the pack, including keeping an eye out for the hunters.

>The Camarilla does not openly recognize the existence of the Antediluvians. Statements about them are publicly derided. As far as the Camarilla is concerned, they are but myths.
To what extent do they deny the existence of Antediluvians? It would be kind of odd to be aware of generations, but be told the third generation just doesn't exist. Do they just say that they /no longer/ exist and that their capability was overstated or something?

>>51306443
That they and Cain are just a myth. Explanation range from evolutionary to magic.

Something like V:tR's fluff

>>51306422
They don't say that there is no third generation, just that they aren't basically vampire gods that are one day going to wake up and consume all kindred and end the world. They don't want all their constituents to be getting riled up and otherwise doing whatever the fuck they want because their time on earth actually is limited.

To be fair there are Princes who actually don't believe in them.

>>51306422
>>51306443
>Do they just say that they /no longer/ exist and that their capability was overstated or something?
That's more or less the idea.

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>>51304481
>Doctor Strange
>What is marvel comics?

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>>51306690
>thinking he was serious

>>51305214
>>hunter
>In that case why not have just prepared everyone in mid tier
You really going to class Joe the Barber and VanHelsing in the same class? One knows to stake the heart, the other is lucky to still have a job

>Beast
You really going to count Resilience 1 and resilience 5 in the same category? their armor power starts at 4 fool. they're are marked improvements in Dom 1 to Dom 5 Likewise with all the disciplines. Beast get good shit to start but the other splats go higher

>agg damage
vamps get free downgrades from all sources not mythical or banes. wolf claws are mundane damage if mythical in origin.

>demons
no they don't they've got to unlock their shit highpower stuff and get transform for free

>>51304370
https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/en/white-wolf-partners-with-focus-home-interactive-for-a-video-game-adaptation-of-the-world-of-darkness-storyteller-game-werewolf-the-apocalypse/

What do you think about this?

>>51306836
Most boring oWoD game tbqh

>>51306232
>Also, what's going on with the packs' totems? They would ostensibly provide additional firepower and options for the pack, including keeping an eye out for the hunters.

The Forsaken totem is going to be there in Twilight, but is not a very powerful combatant at all. The Pure totem is... it's complicated, but it's not actually a spirit at all, and the pack are keeping it well back and safe just in case the Forsaken break the ceasefire and attack. The Pure will have several Twilight spirit allies present, though.

The hunters don't know a great deal about spirits, other than that they exist, are probably mostly evil spirits, etc.

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>>51304515
nWoD only exists because White Wolf got into a tizzy over a market bump. It's never been as profitable as the oWoD and it certainly wont be with Onyx Path smothering it under the weight of their other commitments.

>>51306841
Never played or read the old one, but I'm happy they make some WoD video games.

I would like to see a Requiem game or a Changeling survivor horror.

>>51306841

A best choice for a combat-heavy game of all the lines.

>>51306836
They make it sound like you're going to be stalking industrialists back to their homes and slaughtering them and their families in their sleep. If spirits and vampires are going to be in the game then they probably should have led with that.

At the very least I hope this one actually gets finished.

>>51306879
Changeling would be sweet.
>Court intrigues
>Hedge adventures
>True Fae escapes
>Fucking goat ladies

>>51306871
I thought it was because the entire thing had gotten so up its ass the only customers were the old fanbase

>>51306841
Nah, that's Mummy

>>51306836
>The Garou are born to fight the corruption of The Wyrm
>The Garou are born to fight, corrupted by The Wyrm
Fixed

>>51306905
Even if that were true how would destroying your flagship gameline and replacing it with something unproven be a good idea?

>>51304370
>If mage is so good, then why hasn't it gotten a game or tv show huh?
Because the whole appeal is the tabletop-specific stuff that needs to be adjudicated by a GM. Freeform magic, using your powers to take the story places nobody ever expected, etc.

>>51306921
The idea at the time was that sales were dropping because there were just too many books to choose from and LOTS of shit to go through to understand the game so they decided to nuke it with one last cashgrab and start anew, simplifying both the fluff and the crunch.

Of course, they fucked up, hence V20, but what're you gonna do?

>>51306921
Sometimes you gotta take a leap of faith. They sent the old games out with a bang and used that momentum to start the CofD. Worked out pretty well. They have a bunch of new stuff and they still make money off the old stuff.

>>51306172
Money can be the greatest superpower.

Why are vampires so lewd?

>>51307311
Because drinking blood is a metaphor for rape.

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>>51306731
>still salty

>>51306836
Promises by software companies aren't worth the paper the press release came on.

Who else remembers Heart of Gaia? That actually had a full page advert in Guardians of the Caerns but it still failed to appear and the company went under. Or the Vampire MMORPG, that went through 3 entire alpha builds before they called it a day?

I'll believe it when I see a playable version. Not before.

>>51306841
You obviously never got stuck playing Reckoning.

The artwork depicts Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

The gameplay has you shitting yourself and running from anything more powerful than a Ghoul or a Zombie. Pray you never meet anything worse.

>>51306871
But how else can we change the world, if not through Sidebars telling people how to think?

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>>51307311
How could actively penetrating someone with twin hardons and making them bleed like virgins possibly be..... Oh. Oh, I see.

>>51306841
>most action-heavy and metal of all the OWoD splats
>boring

Go back to your shitty goth cosplay, Vampirefag.

>>51306836
pleasedon'tgetcancelledpleasedon'tgetcancelledpleasedon'tgetcancelledpleasedon'tgetcancelled

>>51307507
Wooooooow, it's action heavy brah? And you say it's metal brah? That'll totes piss off my funDIE parents man!

>>51304370
What WoD-related stuff has gotten a TV show? Sorry for being out of the loop.

>>51305710
How do they feel about martyrdom?

If you know where they will meet up, you can set up a trap in a place not too far off. Set up a honeypot. The guy with pure essence drops a blood trail that will catch one of the hungrier wolves. Lends that one back to the ambush site. Once there unload your firepower. have the woman run interference with her mind wipes.

Use the spike machine to tag down the wolf coming in. knock off one of the targets if you can, ripe out the spikes and torch the place. The fire should bring attention of the wolves at the meeting place

If you can do it right you'll have one dead wolf and a whole lot of questions. and then you've got finger pointing.

Added bonus; smuggle the artifacts into the wolves transportation where they can be easily seen and found. Do this while they're off investigating the fire. It'll look like a heist gone wrong.

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Anyone got any neat blogs to follow, like about someones campaign or roleplaying tips or whatever? owod or nwod is fine

>>51307589
Vampire. Kindred the embraced or is their something newer?

>>51304515
>dead and gone game
>two separate editions of every owod gameline in production
I'm a nwodfag, but come the fuck on.

There was a Mage the Ascension TV show, for the record: https://youtu.be/Y1I3uvljMaM

Dunno if it ever aired or if it was web-only though.

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>>51307821
strawman everywhere

>>51308022
There is literally no information for what this is

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2367755/
Closest to be found. One episode. It's either a fan creation or is in fact something else entirely and some one slapped Mage the ascension on top of it

>>51308149

just as technos want it xd

>>51307597
>How do they feel about martyrdom?
They're willing to die for their cause, although some are more willing to sacrifice themselves for others.

The trap might work nicely. What they *don't* have is a great deal of actual firepower for an ambush. Hong Kong has strict gun laws. That said, I guess I should full-on embrace the fact this is Hong Kong and have at least one of the Wolf-Blooded be a martial artist, have them use various martial arts weapons and batons, etc.

>>51308149

It seems to have several episodes, subbed in Portugese, which also claims it's an Ascension series. Given that it's about a 15 minute run time for each episode, it seems to be a webseries.

That said, it's probably like Dracula's stuff where his TV shows and games were absolutely in the WoD, just not outright stated to avoid copyright. You're right though, it's probably just a fan-creation, as opposed to Kindred's Aaron Spelling pedigree.

https://youtu.be/qD51Cs8vHhU

>>51308227

What good is kung fu against a wolf as big as a man, no less a werewolf in garou or death rage?

Unless you're applying cinematic rules, those hunters better at least find some improvised explosives ASAP.

>>51308296
>What good is kung fu against a wolf as big as a man, no less a werewolf in garou or death rage?

Not very fucking good at all. However, there's a certain amount of mileage that can be gotten out of putting the tougher Wolf-Blooded on the front line while the others manoeuvre for a kill with the spike driver, because the Forsaken are understandably shy about turning into Lunacy-causing forms in such heavy urban areas where anyone could stumble upon them. last time they had a Lunacy Event, as it were, it resulted in a terrified man running out into a busy road while trying to escape one of the pack, with predictable results.

If I slap enough hand-to-hand capabilities on, say, the regenerator then he might be able to slow down the ambush target long enough during the early phase of the trap, when they're still trying to assess whether they can get away with shapeshifting or not. That might buy a crucial round or two as needed (or might actually just work flat-out - the pack ithaeur is not a very good combatant and is concerningly imbalanced towards Flesh at the moment).

As for improvised explosives, see the list above: They have an angry fire spirit bound inside a jar. They previously managed to assemble an actual bomb, but due to Unfortunate Events the Forsaken now have it.

>>51308227
Guns Yes
but what about silverware? They know about wolf's weakness. They should think about using them. inb4 taking down werewolves with teaspoons. Use the number game. It's a basic distraction divide and conquer plan

Make the teaspoons foreign smuggled in from out of country. bought with a bunch of money.

if you use the cliches sparingly you should be just fine. I'm a fan of the helmeted moto armored modern knight myself.

So. I just realized that a Legacy can have a 5 dot attainment that turns people permanently into Sleepwalkers. That's kinda neat.

>>51308569

The Reach and penalties necessary to make such an effect permanent would be unavailable in an attainment.

>>51306142
I'll keep my eye on this and join if I have time, seeing as though I'm in Sydney.

>>51306142
Can't read the page. post the pitch mate

>>51307561
Bad strawman, literally no edgy rebel teen says "brah" like a stereotypical surfer dude. 2/10, made me reply.

>>51306799
>You really going to class Joe the Barber and VanHelsing in the same class? One knows to stake the heart, the other is lucky to still have a job
By everyone I meant other splats besides hunters and mages.

>You really going to count Resilience 1 and resilience 5 in the same category?
I explicitly said, that vampires are exception in that they scale more than most others, but at the same time I don't see how they go higher.
Resilience 5 isn't any better than Unbreakable atavism with Satiety expenditure except for Unbreakable being way cheaper exp wise. And that's not counting Beast's Iron Skin merits (in-clan resilience 5 = 15 exp, in-family Unbreakable and all iron skins = 9 exp). So Beast atavisms cost same exp as 1 dot of Vampire's Discipline, they are comparable powerful and some atavisms even scale with Lair, which is easily affordable thanks to not spending shitloads of exp on few disciplines.
Now how exactly do Vampires out-class/go higher than Beasts?

>agg damage
Please explain, I don't where are you getting to with werewolf claws being mundane in relation to what I wrote.

>demons
I meant they have all their exploits and embeds available for buying since start, same as others I named. Demonic form is available since start too, they just get few more form abilities, no radical improvement. Or do you mean Interlocks? Those are still comparable in power to embeds and exploits.

>>51308296
>improvised explosives
Seconded. Silver nails aren't probably feasible, but there is always silver cutlery. Classic.

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Mages in WoD are now replaced with Harry Potter wizards. How would it go

>>51308367
Yeah, they do have some silver bits and pieces as well as two actual silver knives.

Helmeted biker is probably a good idea, and not just because it protects the poor fucker's head from the angry werewolf. I wonder, maybe using chains to grapple the victim then driving off down the back alleys with the chains attached to the back of a decently powerful motorbike could work as a fairly horrific way to harm the yao guai and soften them up for a final kill.

>>51308779
>Seconded. Silver nails aren't probably feasible, but there is always silver cutlery. Classic.

The problem isn't the shrapnel part of the bomb, it's getting the explosive part. The team are down their machinist (the guy who ran screaming into the traffic) and the ex-military guy who knew how to make bombs (he was killed by the First Changing Ithaeur at the beginning of the game), so unless there's some really simplistic ways to make a bomb with materials that can be gathered in a city centre, they're probably out of luck.

>>51308807
The same as it went in oWoD?

>>51306679
>high vs shit defense
I generally agree with you, when talking relatively even opponent, rising your Defense to get on his level or lowering his to get him on your just evens things out. Initiative should imho be considered only secondary when talking white room matchups, because with interrupts from powers like Hit and Run and Celerity it gets ridiculous.
I don't know Exalted, so I have no idea what is Perfect Defense.
I don't really see how is vampire's potential to cover ground better than werewolf's(raw speed from Celerity alone doesn't win fights), stealthily maybe with Obfuscate, but again werewolves have gifts of Stealth and Evasion and let's not even mention Irrakas.

>silver
Silver is good if you know you will face werewolf, but what if you face changeling? Or prommie? or other vampire? And there is ofc initiative penalty. Claws and teeth are easily concealable and you have them in all circumstances (barring chain saw accidents and similar). Universal source of aggravated damage like Claws of the Unholy beats any weapon.

>improvement
Yeah they improve more horizontally than vertically, I was arguing against statement, that Beasts improve somehow less than others. Same with Demons. Not sure about Changelings yet, but you are probably right.

>>51308807
Mages are no longer the strongest splat of course. They would probably be around hunter level to be honest.

>>51307646
I don't know about blogs, but check out the Gentleman Gamer on Youtube sometime

>>51308035
In the immortal words from The Princess Bride "I do not think that word means what you think it means".

>>51308807
A magic school wouldn't be such a bad concept for the World of Darkness. I can imagine the Order of Hermes running one, instructing acolytes in Sorcery and watching them carefully for signs of Awakening...

>>51308616

>The Reach and penalties necessary to make such an effect permanent would be unavailable in an attainment.
Not at all!
Any fourth or fifth Attainment based on a spell of at least one level lower and with Duration as its primary factor has enough Reach and Spell Factors available to be made permanent.

>>51308779
>Beast
You are so literally ignoring the bigger points. Beast can just start with their level 4 armor, right from CC. vamps have to buy up to that level and they can get level 5 above that armor. Which IS above the beast which DOES prove my point

Most supernatural powers scale off fucking powerstat you're not being cute.

also you ever handily ignored the Dominate 1 to Dominate 5 argument. Which just makes you disingenuous. What about obfuscate 1 to obfuscate 5. Someone else's field power into illusionary buildings

Beasts have got some good powers, but vamps are rewarded for buying in more into theirs

>Hunter
Because Hunters are fucking human, with absolutely no powers or weaksauce powers. Their biggest power is planning and numbers. Hunters have no big advantages but they have non of the super natural disadvantages. If Hunters know your disadvantage or specific bane, they're going to go to town on that. Hunters have no tricks out of the box, but they don't have any crippling disadvantages, where wolves have silver and vamps have sunlight.

Vampires on the other hand have plenty of tools. and a bit of power to tackle problems. but they have one of the most notorious disadvantages. Which is why they're on top of the Street tier. and their powers are considered the benchmark for what is useful

>claws
they manifest claws through a mythical means. it doesn't make the claws magical weaponry. It's like strapping a lions paw to your hand

>Crushing blow
You got to hit the leach first and spend fuel to make that power work. Also you need the cunning so yeah vamps can get their defense easier than wolves can knock it down. + Celerity also have a few nice interrupt tricks.

Werewolfs can use their facets to get some neat tricks which give them cost breaks on the efficiently of their renown. that is why they are effective. Along with their combat forms, and free healing. they're very pick up and go, but have a huge problem when people capitalize on it.

>>51309268

You need another Reach and more penalties to actually make a spell permanent. It's more than just increasing duration.

However, I don't have my book handy at work. I would be interested to see how you would design the Attainment in compliance with the rules, and let the Anon's offer a critique.

If it truly is technically possible to create Lasting Sleepwalkers with an Attainment, I imagine it will not be permitted to stad by Dave and be subject to an errata.

>>51308814
First off YES. Chain the beast INSIDE. if the hunters had some time, they could be real dicks and get silver glided chains. but you go to war with the army you have. I would use that tactic to create even more distance. Also the Helmet does protect your head from headshots, and can hide your Identity. I'm glad you caught onto that one.

If you're thinking of planting the helmet on one of the other wolfs. I would use a second identical helmet, as wolfs are known for sniffing and tracking people via their smells

So why don't vampires just dominate world leaders again?

>>51309443
>wolfs are known for sniffing and tracking people via their smells

Yes, but imagine how bad you could fuck him up by pouring cloudy ammonia all over everything. That furry bastard won't be smelling anything for a week.

>>51308854
Fertilizers probably wouldn't be good idea. In Hong Kong I would go with getting explosives from illegal fireworks. Fireworks have big tradition in China, it's less regulated than in the West... Making simple detonator from alarm clock could be easy extended Craft roll.

>>51309532

You can just bribe them.

>>51309539
Did you not hear about the giant fertilizer plant explosion in China?

>>51306936
Once again. Got a tv show in 2008. Paradigma.

>>51309532
Who says they don't? The main problem is risking exposure. You'd have to get close enough to look into Tony Blair's eyes, without alerting anyone in MI6 about strange comings and goings at the Blair house after dark. Every world leader of any decently powerful nation has their own internal security apparatus responsible for guarding their head of state. Threaten the Masquerade and the Camarilla/Invictus would just stake you out for the next sunrise to kill the investigation.

Much easier to corrupt MI6 or large faceless beauracracies themselves. Consider: Hunters Hunted and Project Twilight had sections on the FBI and NSA, and both of them were subject to inflitration and corruption by unseen forces. Hell, NSA was listed as having exactly three agents who knew about the Kindred; one had turned into a Camarilla asset, one had turned into a Sabbat asset and the third was trying to investigate the other two.

>>51309605
Videos online or it didn't happen.

>>51309396
>You need another Reach and more penalties to actually make a spell permanent.
Yes, I know, which is why I set the limitations Idid.
You need the extra Reach from the spell being of lower level than the attainment and you need the extra spell factors from being at least a fourth attainment.
Check the math yourself if you don't believe me.

>>51309594
Buying fertilizer in Hong Kong would be imo rather suspicious.

>>51308253
It aired on a channel similar to the idea of adultswim. I've got the whole thing subtitled in English (because I'm dumb and paid someone to translate it) I assure you it is 100% an Ascension TV show.

>>51309626
>https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLb193RoLE-n4KxcTpNX1Xcb9VESxcmLJ4
It's from Catalonia. It was made by some company called Boala films.

When Changelings escape from the Hedge the thorns take away their memories of Arcadia? In that case how do you go about making a backstory for your Durance if your character has trouble remembering it?

>>51309670

https://youtu.be/z_z8kBZa1Xk

Is this your paid-for translation? Also is this the entire series? Either way, I'm gonna give this a watch now that I know there's a subbed version in English.

>>51309532
>So why don't vampires just dominate world leaders again?

After all the recent threads, the answer is obvious: Mages!

Dominate and Majesty are laughable against a Mastigos Seer.

>>51309626
Fine I'll upload the files when I get home and spam a link in the next few threads to the subtitled full series.

>>51309689
I think it was aired at some local Spaniard television, or at least thats was one of the co-producers of the series some company or group called XTVL which acts in Catalonia, Valencia and Belares islands.

>>51309734
No I believe that link is only half subbed which led me to the decision to get the rest.

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So, my players recently completed some rather shady business for a rich, eccentric vampire. Price was literally no object for him, so he simply asked what they wanted as payment. So they asked for an armored SUV.

Now, has anyone played with the car rules, because one of the players has been looking at the aggressive driving fighting style. I just want to know on a scale of 1-10 how much I'll have a adjust a normal campaign to accommodate these things?

>>51309744
Yay! Thank you!

Which is the most bullshit Arcana? Is it Time, because it seems like it should be Time.

>>51309766
>Not asking for the mighty Russian Kombat T-98 armored 4x4

absolutely oтвpaтитeльный

>>51309861
I'm going to go with Forces, if only because the higher levels seem to involve shattering the fucking universe

What was that, did someone ask for a complete oWoD population ratio breakdown?

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Masquerade_Project/ar/t1376.htm

>>51308772
That's not a strawman my 13 year old friend, I'm just making fun of you

>>51306904
There is another you made out of household materials and magic living your life better than you could while you are in a state of not knowing what is real, far from home.

>>51309532
Why would they?

I mean seriously, for their purposes world leaders are useless; local leaders are more important

>>51309903
The 1:100,000 figure has always been suspicious to me, that would mean there are only 20 vamps in Chicago

>>51309861
It's between Time and Fate. The others don't even come close. Yes, Acanthus are the master race of the master race.

>>51309060
Dumbest comment on this thread. I am even dumber for responding to it.

>>51309844
>>51309734
>>51309670
>>51308253
>>51308149

https://mega.nz/#fm/y1AwgI7B

Idk how long these mega links work for but here it is. Paradigma (2008) with English subtitles.

>>51311103
Not even Mastigos? People jack off to sympathetic casting all the time and Mind has no paradox.

>>51311123

Excellent! Can't download it now so here's hoping it'll still be there when I can.

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>be werewolf
>wake up tied to a bed by silver chains
>room is filled with werewolf merchandise
What do you do?

>>51311125
No, not even them. You will never see an Acanthus coming for you unless they want you to or you're one yourself. Said this in the last threads too, but being able to hurt or even kill someone by gently bumping into their cousin's neighbor's sister's boyfriend is scary as fuck.

>>51309740

>Speaking the obvious

You shouldn't mix Mage with Vampire at all, Anon. The Mind Arcanum can do everything Dominate can and Time has a superior version of Celerity.

>>51311125
>no paradox
Doesn't understand paradox in 2ed is part of the reach system

>>51311125
Anyone can learn how to put up wards and mind shields.

It's a little bit harder to avoid a semi-truck that comes barreling towards you as the result of a convoluted butterfly effect.

Have you ever irreparably damaged the Masquerade in your games? If so, how did it go?

>>51311199
>Acanthus Sepremacy

>>51311183

I stared at that picture a good minute. I'm starting to understand autism.

>>51309861
Which Arcana is the least effective in 2e? People keep saying Prime but I don't believe that at all.

>>51311502

I tried playing a prime-mage in the first edition of nWoD. I could not do ANYTHING important the few sessions we played (low 'level'), the max I got to do was to fling a few weak ebergy balls, while the mind-mage was mindwiping people all over the place (like twice, but anyway it was effective).

>>51311203
>mage bullshit
How are Mind Mages better at Dominate?

>>51311406
I honestly don't even think there is such a thing as irreparable Masquerade breaches. The type that would reveal the supernatural to everyone, everywhere and in such a way that it's impossible to put the genie back in the bottle would take significant effort from both supernaturals and muggles. There's just so many things we can all blame it on before we ever need to start raving about blood-suckers and fairies, not to mention that when all else fails, just blow it all up and blame Muslims and terrorists.

Mind-fuckery is also pretty rampant, and while most would be tempted to erase everything from everyone, I'd leave two or three with a portion of the truth so they can start raving in the news about crazy shit like vampires or wizards. Letting the media and society mock them for a bit before they inevitably move on makes the job of protecting the Masquerade all the easier for next time.

>>51311618
A Week of Nightmares event taking place in NY would break it like glass

>>51306142
Page not Authorized

>>51311647
Yeah it would. That is a very significant effort on the part of supernaturals. And even then, you could always bomb the place, start a good old fashion war or even world war with you preferred enemies and shroud the whole thing in so much mystery and controversy that everyone blames our allies, our enemies, terrorists, jews, mexicans, illegal aliens, actual aliens, the loch ness monster. Hell, some even blame it on vampires, but those guys are nuts... Obviously.

>>51311840
>very significant effort

It's just some ante waking up.

And the problem isn't stopping him/her/it, it's stopping all those pesky videos of a biblical monster butchering an entire metropolis and werewolves/vampires/mages fighting it

>>51306142
You need to make a listing. The campaign pages on roll20 aren't public.

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>>51311111
Those quints don't look dumb at all to me!

>>51311609
A mind mage can has a lot more finesse and flexibility when it comes to mental manipulation, on top of brute power. And of course, they can do it all at whatever range they want if they have Space 2 and a sympathetic connection. At all but the highest levels, a vampire needs to be either looking into some eyes or touching some skin. A mage could look at a picture of Joseph Kony and just make him kill himself, all without leaving his sanctum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_z8kBZa1Xk
there's subtitles too

>>51311111
How do you fucking figure HP fag? HP magic is weak as shit expecially since their strongest spell is a shitty gun.

>>51311963
Look another half subbed link.

Try
>>51311123

>>51311999
why does this link take me to my account lol

>>51312012
plus the link's folder is empty wt

>>51312012
Must have expired. I'll have to reupload.

>>51312021
ok do that

>>51311939
That's cool. I would like to see a Mage try that in front of a raging Vampire though. Oh that's right he can't. Mages suck at fights.

Why was the embraced the only WoD show ever made? I mean if they played their cards right they'd have a new GoT on their hands

>>51311111
Nice quints but you are dumb as shit if you think Potterverse magic had anything on WoD. Potterverse Wizards can't even use technology.

>>51312077
they really could

>>51312071
Dude a mage can make fucking sunlight without even trying. Vamps are weak as shit especially since they no longer have their marysue antellidiuns

>>51312101
Yeah they'd wreck a neonate or ancilla but methuselahs like ur-Shulgi wipe their asses with mages

>>51312101
>magefag
>calling anyone a mary sue

ohohoho

>>51312115
I was talking about NWod not that masquerade garbage
>>51312140
Mages get their powers from years of hard work and study. Vamps get their powers from not getting themselves killed and preying on defenseless humans.

>>51311999
>>51312012
>>51312019
>>51312021
>>51312031
Hopefully this works this time.
Paradigma_2008_Complete_English_Subs
https://mega.nz/#!D8AAzABL!EYwlR-BUe-q7xBRbpqW1Zy_7j4-0DN2ewMRAI_-KDeI

>>51312216
Completely incorrect. It's not like vamps just sit around and gain powers; they have to do shit to get it as well

>>51312230
looks like its working thanks

>>51312216
>talking about shit wod
found your problem.

>>51312115
>methusalahs wiping their asses with mages

Unless they're archmages. In which case not even Cain or Lilith is going to stand a chance.

>>51304370
Its hard to recognize Harry Dresden without his trademark hat

>>51312422
Sevenfold curse

>>51312451
Not this shit again.

>>51312422
yes because you standard archmage is just a character with every fucking power possible. you go from gaining one dot in an archsphere to having them all in less than a week.
seems legit.

>>51312451
Easily bypassed with the arch-spheres

guess it was probably posted but i will do it anyway
>https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/en/white-wolf-partners-with-focus-home-interactive-for-a-video-game-adaptation-of-the-world-of-darkness-storyteller-game-werewolf-the-apocalypse/
lets hope it is fun

>>51312484

You don't need every power possible to kill Cain and piss off God as an Archmage. This was already discussed 3-4 threads down. Jesus.

>>51312489
A curse set down by god himself is not circumvented

>>51312561
Found the Christian projecting his beliefs into RPGs.

>>51312561

Archmages, may in fact, be stronger than God considering an Exemplar with Forces 9 / Prime 9 might have created the universe/tellurian according to MotA.

God may also just be a powerful Celestine like Gaia & The Triat. Which is something an Archmage can become.

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>>51306142
>>51308648
>>51308708
>>51311825
>>51311882

Okay, so here's the linked sorted out properly.
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/67128/mage-the-awakening-sydney

>>51304532
How will they make W:tA interesting though? I honestly can't see it. The idea of W:tA is shit. Eco-terrorist Werewolves? Who's gonna play it? Why didn't they make it W:tF? It offers way more possibility. All my OWoD games have Uratha instead of Gauru if I'm doing a crossover.

>>51312684
Because as far as White Wolf is concerned nwod is dead.
Werewolf lends it self to high action games. Just throw a plot around a generic action game and it will probably be better than the old hunter games.

Deviant: The Renegades looks pretty cool. Do we know anything about it that's not on the 1d4chan page?

>>51312230
Thank you Anon.

>>51312816
Here you go:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/1032843-what-we-know-so-far-deviant-the-renegades

>>51312591
>archmasters stronger than god
Mage writers at their worst. Should never have been published. Sphere 5 effects can already do anything.

>>51312071
>be mage
>vampire comes charging at you
>oh no
>psych
>use fire spirit fetish to burn them
>straight up thunderbolt them in the face
>rip their mind apart
>rot their flesh
>freeze them in space
>slice them apart with magic swords and life magic
>use your jury rigged flamethrower/shotgun to blow them up
>or just turn invisible
>or teleport away
>accelerate yourself and outrun them
>use ghosts to distract while you escape

And all of that is just off the top of my head, and all of them are things that involve little to no preparedness and also doesn't account for the fact that mages rarely head into danger alone. And this is not even counting master level abilities and potential legacy attainments.

>>51312948
No they can't, that's the whole point of archmastery.

>>51312948
What's so bad about it?

>>51313129
Obviously it upsets his Christian sensibilities to supersede 'God'.

What do you guys hope Deviant will have? I personally think it would be awesome if it could simulate a game that is like the SCP Foundation universe, except you play as the fugitive SCP instead of the Foundation Agent.

>>51313175
A kickstarter I won't end up regretting that I backed. Fucking beast.

> Magefags shit up two threads in a row power wanking

And you wonder why nobody else likes you. Clearly we're all jealous of your incredible ability to breeze through conflicts, making the story less interesting than a children's book.

>>51313584
>Not understanding the core themes of the game
>Still bitching about it.

>>51304463
What's that?

>>51313603
See
>>51312230

>>51313584
It has actually been six threads. It's far worse than you realize.

>>51313617
We're almost to the point of the Sevenfold Curse being told to fuck off for the 7th time because Caine is an archmasters bitch.

>>51313617
Six? Jesus Christ and to think I took a break from this general due to the Aspel shitposting.

We just replaced him with mage wankers, then?

>>51313584
'Mage supremacy' is really just vampire fags thinking they are the best and being told they are wrong.

>>51312230
My questions is, is this SPECIFICALLY Mage? Does it call out terminology like KtE did? Did it use even baseline Reality War? If not, fuck off.

>>51313663
Yes it does. Its got the Technocracy and Tradition mages and everything. By name.

>>51313656
What about all the posts wanking mages replying to people talking about non-mage things? That's not vampire fags, that was just people talking about changeling or whatever.

>>51313686
Changeling fans are worse than Vampire fans.

>>51313645
Would you prefer an Aspel over a legion of Magefags?

>>51313673
Huh. Interesting.

>>51313726
Six threads of this? I dunno. Maybe. I just come here to talk Hunter, sometimes Vampire or Changeling.

>>51313686
>>51313726
>>51313753
Literally every conversation on every line devolves into white room faggotry, which inevitably turns into mage supremacy. You can't stop the cycle.

>>51313780
Or we could just talk about the lines on their own, discuss what makes for good stories for them respectively, and share our own stories playing in games. Ya know, like reasonable people?

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>>51313842
>Ya know, like reasonable people?

>>51313726
In their hatred of Aspel, in their desperation, this thread turned to a meme they didn't fully understand.

Mage supremacists just want to watch the world burn.

>>51313842
Yes, please, a thousand times over.

>>51313842
>reasonable people
Boy do you even know where you are?

>>51313860
>>51313876
>>51313883
Who says we can't be? Anyone who wants to hold better discussion, just do so. Ignore the shitposters, and let's just have fun.

How about this, what's something that happened in one of your WoD (oWoD or nWoD) that you really enjoyed, and why?

>>51313927
I liked when my Iteration X player took enough enhancements to go toe to toe with a Hitmark X.
They were basically having a plasma cannon fight (in a friendly to such things reality zone) while a VA desperately tried to shut the thing down.

Eventually his paradox will make him explode and it'll be great.

>>51313927
>what's something that happened in one of your WoD (oWoD or nWoD) that you really enjoyed, and why?

I met this vampire once. I turned him into a lawn chair.

>>51313871
That is exactly what we want.

>>51313927
They thing is that hardly anyone wants to have better discussion. They're busy having their own kinds of fun, be it arguing, shitposting, explaining things to noobs, or shitting on Onyx Path.

If "better" discussion is your only idea of fun, then this place probably isn't for you.

>>51314155
Shitting on Phil Brucato is at least 30% of the reason I even come to these threads.

>>51313726

Aspel's not coming back. I'm serious. They left 4chan for good, it seems.

>>51313927
I was playing a vampire once and I got turned into a lawnchair

>>51314467
Please don't tempt fate. There could be an Acanthus nearby.

Thought this would be the best place to ask this question.

I'm writing my own original game, and thinking of including something like Natures. Players are monster hunters in a gothic horror setting, and would need to find ways to stay in touch with their human side so they don't become too stressed or insane from fighting monsters nonstop. How can I include this without it becoming too gamified? For example, I don't want PCs walking into town just to say something such as "I like music, so I play an instrument in the tavern until I feel better. Am I done yet?"

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>>51304370
We would talking about 'Mage supremacy' ( as if they were meant to be an equal footing in the first place)

Just how impossible would a full 'monster mash' crossover game be? At least from justifiing in story and a game balance perspective?

>>51314782
I'm pretty sure Hunter 2ED will have something for this. In the mean time, you could check out the Touchstones of Vampires and Werewolves in CoD for inspiration.

>>51314833
You could probably have everybody except werewolves in the party desu. Werewolves hate fun.

>>51314782
One thing that I was thinking about with my own 'vampire heartbreaker' was something I was calling Anchors. Basically, as long as you interacted with your anchors, you were able to keep your focus and continue to maintain a level of sanity. Generally you could use downtime (an expendable resource) to maintain your anchors, but you could also do it during session. So it gave people a choice of resources to expend, or temporarily wander into insanity.

>>51313037
But explicitly giving archmages the capabilities to become more powerful than the god that cursed Cain is going too far. Giving them the powers to create universes and cause big bangs is just stripping God of his feats. How is anyone going to compete with beings that can toss galaxies around?

>>51314833
From story perspective, you could say they are like the Scooby-Doo Gang: a traveling group of detectives who use their powers and skills to help catch the more monstrous members of their "species". They could have a Beast as their leader, who would also offer their Lair as a mobile HQ for them.

>>51314833
Unless it is in a HUGE crisis, multi-splat parties require a SHITLOAD of justification/ass pulling.

>>51314981
Yeah. That's already in Vampire, nothing new.

The category of traits is even called "anchors".

>>51314982
>is just stripping God of his feats.
Feats assigned to him IRL, not in the mage world. It feels like you are gripping onto IRL memes that have nothing to do with the game.

>>51315011
I was aware, though I didn't realize Anchors was a term used. Which is part of why I was trying to work out different mechanics. I couldn't come up with a lot of good stuff there, which is why I started going in a different direction. I was trying to look at ways things kept vampires in Anne Rice from going insane too, like Marius' painting, to work in there.

>>51314467
>Aspel's not coming back. I'm serious. They left 4chan for good, it seems.
Do you have any evidence for this whatsoever?

>>51315053
I FOUND ASPEL

>>51314948
>You could probably have everybody except mages in the party
FTFY

I'm a die-hard mage supremacist so trust me when I say that they'll just ruin everyone else's fun. That includes the mage player since you're gonna have to keep coming up with more and more excuses to stop them from simply using their abilities as is. Best to play a mage when everyone at the table is also playing a member of the master race.

>>51315065
Not Aspel, just someone who's unwilling to believe he's gone.

>>51315090
Mages have always been the wild cards. Especially since it's impossible to tell just how powerful an individual wizard is.

>>51315111
>something Aspel would say
You can't fool me

>>51315053

They're not the type to just lay low, or let people talk shit about them without commenting once. If we haven't seen them for a couple of days, it's safe to assume that they're actually gone. That and the /soc/ ERP thread said that they left and I'm going to take their word for it.

They could have just netted a long ban, though. Who knows.

>>51315148

Ah but that's where you'd be wrong. They have to admit who they are like it's some kind of Bane or something.

Anyways that's enough thread drama gossip bullshit out of me, I wanna talk about Hunter 2e or something.

>>51315011
I wasn't aware of that feature. So this would work by giving the PCs closer ties to a particular area, and rewarding them for actively developing relationships with characters there, am I correct? That seems very useful, though my only concern would be if players wanted to be travelers instead.

>>51315129

Most mages don't even know who is or isn't a true mage, or even what a true mage really is. And a large number of mages don't know they're mages, per se.

>>51315205
Yeah, the vampire needs to either bring their Touchstones (which is a kind of Anchor, one that's used for Vampires and Werewolves) with them, or need some way to interact with them en route.
Such as stealing something important from them, like a wedding ring, and bonding with that.. or calling them every night and creeping them, or spying on them via hidden cameras...

Touchstones are mostly meant to be humans, but they can also be places or objects. The point is that they should be something you can lose.

>>51315225
Only the Hermetics would really know. They train sorcerers in the hopes that they will eventually awaken. They consider sorcerers to be inferior magicians. Which isn't untrue.

The Order of Hermes has always been the most informed/knowledgeable of the Traditions.

>>51315205
>>51315250
The vehicle they're using to travel around in also works. Or like anon said, have it be a wedding ring, or a photograph, an old book, a photo album, a small carving, a child's toy, etc.

>>51315225
I was more talking about Awakening so I was gonna ask you just what the fuck you were on about. Since you were talking about Ascension and it's really not my bag of tea, carry on.

>>51315324
Awakening? .. .. ..It's not hard to spot another Mage.

>>51315335
It's easy enough to spot supernal magic and those touched or affected by it in Awakening. I don't really know or care how it's handled in Ascension.

>>51312591

God is infinitely poweful, and thus infinitely more powerful than necessary to create a universe. There's also a difference between being a being that created a universe, and being the source of all existence.

If the God of the Bible is just a Celestine, then you'd be right, but that's not established by WoD's incredibly inconsistent views of ultimate reality. It's really up to the storyteller and such.

>>51315413
More IRL infinite god memes not backed by the text. Celestine actually has hints towards it. Your GOD is what people think his meme is IRL isn't.

>>51315324
It's actually pretty difficult to detect another Mage if they're not casting, and you don't have Prime in Awakening.

Active Mage Sight doesn't tell if someone's Awakened, and Death and Mind's knowing spells to do so are Withstood. Only Prime 1 can reliably detect if someone's Awakened, and isn't attempting to hide it.

>>51315413
If you want to argue against mage supremacy try citing a book that isn't the Bible. Ideally something published by White Wolf, or at least its predecessor.

>>51315413

It's hilarious how people consider the Judeo-Christian god to be the correct supreme being. The universe is too big for that. The Technocracy has met countless Extraterrestrial civilizations in the Deep Umbra.

>>51315493
>Most mages don't even know who is or isn't a true mage, or even what a true mage really is. And a large number of mages don't know they're mages, per se.
I was more going against this. But they were talking about Ascension I think.

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>Ghoul assault team who I just tried to put in time out thought they could get out of the Ban by shooting it

>>51315713
storyteim?

>>51315758
Dealing with Vamps.
They try to pull a fast one on us, but they have something we want and would rather negotiations to them ruining a lot of shit if we try to strong arm them.

So they sent a blooded up assault team to take us out, for some fucking reason.

Cast Ban to bubble them before they can cause a scene. Wait a few minutes, we have the area cleared and are ready to subdue them.

Open it up to reveal a bullet hell of friendly fire as every single shot fired everyday hit someone after ricocheting around in warped space. Have to call the guardians and ask how to dispose of an odd half-dozen bodies.

>>51315527

You could cite 20 WW books with 20 different TOTALLY CORRECT opinions that are all completely incompatible.

My point, regardless, is that if you want to talk about God, the real life concept of God exists in the World of Darkness. No matter how powerful you want to say mages can be, God, at least in concept, will always be more powerful. There is nothing that is certain in the WoD metaplot that rules out the existence of a monotheistic god. If the God mentioned in the Book of Nod is just a Celestine, then sure, you're right. If said God is analogous to God per se, then you're wrong. Both (and others) are possible, and both are opinions that are held in that fictional universe.

If you're looking for the One True Metaplot, you will not find it in any White-Wolf game.

>>51315431

By which text? Oh, the Mage text that completely contradicts other books in the same setting?

Also using the word meme in an unironic academic sense is seriously sad. Stop it and shave your neckbeard.

>>51315862
>Both ideas of god are right
>Both ideas of god are wrong

Typical vampire fag cop-out/scape-goat logic

>>51312648
I'll take a look at this when i get home mate

>>51315880
>Mage text that completely contradicts other books in the same setting?

So when something becomes stronger than God it contradicts the setting? Grow up.

>>51315862

Sorry. Archmasters have outdone your beloved Christian God as of Masters of the Art.

>>51315826
When will they learn. If you're sending an assault team after Mages you use an army of Vinculum/Majesty/Dominate suicide soldiers sent out in successive waves in the hopes of triggering some really bad Paradox.

>>51315992
And all that against just ONE mage. Who will just teleport away.

>>51316038
>spells are free

>>51316116
Yeah pretty much dumbass. Mages don't have mana

>>51316159
>>51316116
Only Ruling Arcana are free. The others require Mana. But yeah. A smart Mage is not easy to beat.

>>51316175
>Only Ruling Arcana are free
And to be honest, in most situations you'll be casting from your Ruling Arcana, or using a Rote/Praxis.

I have found that the biggest use of Mana is activating non-ruling Mage Sight. I use Prime quite a lot.

>>51316175
A lot of it is based around luck and the fact the most Mages paranoid enough to be prepared for anything are probably too paranoid to ever leave their Sanctums. You have to hope that whatever Mage you're attacking isn't prepared for that scenario.

Of course they could be an Acanthus who set up a Fate/Time spell to send themselves back a certain distance in time if they ever get mortally wounded before they got attacked presuming you can even get the drop on them in the first place.

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What I don't understand if that mages can go back in time whats the stop them from always changing history? The timelines should all be out of wack from mages making hitler win WW2 and other mages changing it back.

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I love how the underlying assumption in these threads is somehow that Mages will never be hit with the many, many, many stick in the ST's arsenal to tamp them down when they get too flashy. Like, I mean, let's take the infamous lawnchair scenario, how many fucking dice of paradox is that exactly? Because there are almost certainly going to be witnesses (even if it is just the Concensus, rather than a Sleeper) and that's just *one* aspect. They also have to contend with y'know...succeeding on all their spellcasting rolls, and they actually have to have the Mana/Tass/Gnosis to keep this crap up long enough to not just be plinked to death anyway.

This is why white-rooming is fucking stupid, it ignores how the game is actually played in lieu of morons jerking themselves off like this is D&D Powah GAEM TIEM.

>>51304370
is that some harry dresden?

>>51316267
Because Time is the hardest Sphere to master, let alone actually understand. Time travel is only available to high level time mages.

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>fighting against Mages

How futile, that time should be better spent

Like groveling to us

>>51316328

>tfw the only other playable splat is promethean because you can potentially become a mage

Furthermore, if you idiots had actually read your rulebooks for oWoD Mage, you have to be within paradigm for your character (remember, the thing you have to try and role play beyond a white-room?) and if you are not within that, then uh- well, I guess go fuck yourself unless you're playing an Orphan, Marauder or something that has 'turn people into furniture' as a cornerstone of their view on reality.

>>51316373

>not shooting vampires with your ether powered chair ray

>>51311123
>https://mega.nz/#fm/y1AwgI7B
It's asking me to log in...?

>>51311183
Rage?

>the answer to every question is always RAGE

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>>51316388
The Ether powered chair ray that reuires you to roll Arete whilst using Vulgar Magick, outside of one's Paradigm, with a Non-Awakened Witness. Wowzer, that's a harsh roll, and I haven't even gotten to Quiet, Backlash or any of that other fun stuff you forgot to read after you put your book on the shelf after never having played it.

>>51316268
Dumbest comment yet.
>ST hampering a mage
This does not equate to anything. This equates to a dick ST.
>They also have to contend with y'know...succeeding on all of their spellcasting rolls
A mage can hang spells using Wonders, Time 4 and Wards. Success doesn't come into it after a certain point. Turning monster rituals into a spell quiver isn't hard.


>>51316373
I don't think you understand how far a Mage's Paradigm can go. There are many different ways to fuck a vampire into a lawn chair because of this. It only makes them more creative and powerful.

>>51312684
>Why didn't they make it W:tF?

Because WWF already had Vince McMahan sitting on the border and assaulting Mexicans. What makes you think people want to play a Furfag Minuteman assaulting spirit-Mexicans?

>>51313602
>hurr durr hubris is a theme
>so let's act hubristic as fuck in real life
seems legit

>>51316478

What are you trying to say? You do know that chairs can't talk, right?

>>51316434
Try

>>51312230

>>51313726
Yes. Aspel at least could argue well instead of being smug and boring.

But it's been 6 days since I saw him. He's not coming back.

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>>51316524
>argue well
>aspel

>>51316478
>Rolling
Too late. The Etherite already hung the spell using Charms.
>Paradigm
I don't think you know how paradigm works.

>>51315053
You have never seen anyone so easy to goad into admitting who they were. You just accuse some random of being Aspel, and the stupid cunt would say "they aren't Aspel, I am". Cue insults and derision.

I've fished occasionally, trying to smoke him out over the last week, and he hasn't taken the bait in 6 days now. If he is still here, he's wizened up.

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>>51316486
>This does not equate to anything. This equates to a dick ST.
No it doesn't if they're going by the rules. Vulgar Magic with Witness Base 5 difficulty, plus another 5 since you're using Matter 5, we start with a base success rate or 10, then you need to beat any defense roll they put up.
>I don't think you understand how far a Mage's Paradigm can go
As far as you can successfully argue to your ST. Which won't be very far because I want you to name me a real life occult tradition that has tranmogrifications of humans into Lawn Furniture. Even if you do, that just allows you for the opportunity to cast it. And then, even if you succeed, you're still getting at least 6 Dice of Paradox since you've decided that you just can't take consensual reality.

>>51315413
If god is all-powerful, why is the World of Darkness in such shit shape? Either he isn't all-knowing and can't see how bad it is, he isn't all-powerful and can't change it, or he isn't all-good and doesn't give a fuck about the innocents shredded every night by two dozen supernatural splats.

Or he's dead.

>>51316268
everyone knows no one cares

>>51316595
I always liked the, "God saw what he'd made and said 'Fuck it' and left' that D:tF threw down. It's like a negligent parent, they just can't be asked to actually sit down and fix their kid, instead trying to throw quick-fixes at the problem and eventually just running away when they don't look as if they'll work.

>>51315901
>>51315985
>>51316328
>>51316369

Jesus christ, will you just shut the fuck up you boring cunts? This is why women don't like you, why you're stuck in a boring dead-end life doing fuck all except making up earth-shattering powers for your maginary friends. It's a game of make-believe you pathetic, miserable neckbeards. At least skinheads have anglo civilization to point at and feel proud and hate on others over, all you have is a bunch of masturbatory fanfic and a fucking character sheet.

>>51316580

>Blatant lawn chair misinformation

Are you actually stupid enough to believe that there are no real-world religions/practices based on physical, mental and spiritual change? Eastern/Southeastern Asia says Hello. Historians everywhere are going to laugh at you.

There is also a rote for the Lawn Chair spell. It's entire in-world and canon.

>>51316619
Well.... if he left, that would imply there's a second Creation out there in the Deep Umbra.

There's a game in that. Fire up the Ether Ships!!! Arm the Quintessence Torpedos and set sail for the Arms of Orion!

>>51316651
4chan making arguable cases for skinheads. God today sucked. Fucking time travelers fucking up. they had ONE job.

>>51316672
>Are you actually stupid enough to believe that there are no real-world religions/practices based on physical, mental and spiritual change?

We're still waiting for you to cite one of those real world religions/practices that involves physical, mental and spiritual change into lawn furniture. Hindu's don't reincarnate as Garden Gnomes, you stupid cunt. The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn didn't summon the Scarlet Barbecue Pit. The only thing that could even approach such stupidity is Chaos Magic, and they're so fucking fast and loose that they invoke the Sacred Mallet of Wile E. Coyote to smite thine enemies.

>>51316707
Sorry. The lawn chair rote is canon. You are trying to apply realism to a clusterfuck of a setting. You can fuck right off.

Here's your proof of the rote. It's entirely Hermetic.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-classic-world-of-darkness/mage-the-ascension/97970-changing-vampires-into-lawn-furniture

>>51316672
believing people believe your made up relegion

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>>51316677
Why couldn't they have simply willed their own pattern out of existence in that case? It'd be cool to be sailing the deep umbra, finding massive planet-sized chunks of what was once throne of the godhead, maddened angels that had taken on more aspects of the spirit world than the heavenly one they once were a part of.
>>51316672
>Are you actually stupid enough to believe that there are no real-world religions/practices based on physical, mental and spiritual change?
Are you actually stupid enough to believe that your ST would let you do any of that without consequences, reprisals, snapbacks or rape from Paradox Spirits?
>There is also a rote for the Lawn Chair spell. It's entire in-world and canon.
Well you don't give a fuck about the books and what they say for the consequences of such an ac in-game, so why should I care about the veracity of the rote. Cling to your retarded meme all you want, it doesn't make Mage any better or worse of a game, and it doesn't change the fact that doing something so blatantly aggressive in game like that would get that character likely turned into the queer in a supernatural game of smear-the-queer in five seconds flat. Go actually find a group and play the fucking game before you jerk off about optimization.

Who is the Yellow King?

>>51316771
A Mage

>>51316771

Abyssal Intrusion or a Maeljin.

>>51316758
>Claims Anon doesn't adhere to the rules
>Gets cited with canon materiel yet ignores it

Oh the irony.

>>51316293
Yeah. It very often is.

>>51316595
>>51316619
>>51316677

God didn't make the universe. An Archmage did. I thought we discussed this already?

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>>51316801
>Unable to understand what consequences and difficulty mean as game concepts.
>Doesn't read the massive argument and dissent that arose from the thread they posted.

>>51316492
What the fuck are you talking about?
What does Werewolf have to do with Mexico?

>>51316841
Players these days are coddled by video games

>>51316743
Okay,
1) it's Mage 20th and not a single person in this general acknowledges that bullshit edition in any way.
2) The author themselves acknowledges it's a fucking joke.
3) The author themselves acknowledges the "EXTREME" difficulty of casting it along with the penalties of failure.
4) the text given mentions that the person who cast it on a Tzimisce and turned them into a commode has been screaming ever since. Ever. Since.
5) you are intellectually impaired for not reading your own links.

-5/10, you suck at trolling

>>51316850
sounds like filthy rat immigrant chewing the fences

Have Mage Supremacists actually resorted to attacking one another over pointless and inconsistent OWoD rules?

>Hubris