CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Euthanasia, the mercifull approach

>>51258284
is that stated in 2e was I heard imperial mysteries was rather mysterious bout what happens.

>>51258234
Why don't they make more use of the good writers and devs? Imagine if the whole Dark Eras had been the same quality as the first era.

Right, I've finished all 13 Clans, 10 modern Bloodlines, and Caitiff, so that actually makes this more or less halfway done, I think. Certainly at least the bulk of what it would be used for is finished, as is the bulk of the heavy lifting in character design - mostly at this point it's reprints. Though I do have to make some Kuei-jin from the ground up and then translate them into standard V20 rules (the same way Lupines are translated from W20, or mages from M20).

Also a bunch of mortals from the ground up.

Still, though, tell me what you think! The PDF has become too large to post here, so I'm hosting it in my Google drive.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B86CqQWWW_t7QTE1TUpaQ1hDNkE/view?usp=sharing

>>51258624
Make them a full-on cross-splat antagonist group. They have a supernatural compulsion to muck about in the other major splats' business, trying to establish themselves as dominant monsters over their 'lesser cousins'. Heroes become the Hunter Conspiracy that specializes in hunting them. That's how I've used them to date.

>>51259169
>Fledgling
>4 dots of disciplines
>attributes aren't 7/5/3 split

Nigga, fledglings are vampires that have been around for under a year. They're quite new to their powers.

>>51258624

"Fixing" Beast would require a ground-up remodeling that would involve having to pick a more specific theme and sticking to it. If it must exist, it'd need to be a hard oWoD to nWoD-esque reboot in its next edition.

>>51259200
Fledglings are vampires that haven't been released from their sires yet. Theoretically they could be any age, depending on the sire. Regardless, it's just a name to distinguish them from Neonates. The point is they're built with 0 Experience, unlike the higher ranks. They're the mookiest of mooks.

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>>51259252
Incidentally, proof that a fledgling isn't necessarily less than a year dead. V20, pg. 19.

>>51258284
Not, it wasn't stated as objective truth. That's just the theory of pessimist Seekers.

>>51258624
What're everyone's opinions on Sin-Eaters?

>>51258699
also if they just ditch timeslines i am curious bout some other things, are the other high level entiteis that vouch for other supernaturals multitimeline in scope as well? Like they can go to and from other timelines like a archmaster.

>>51259252
Mate, you gave just turned humans above average willpower. Most humans have Willpower 4 or less. Something like 50% of them.

These are terribly underwhelming for elders and terribly overwhelming for fledglings. A default vampire in VtM is a neonate, not a fledgling. 99% of fledglings are under a year old.

I don't think any GM I know would use these.

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Why don't mages and vampires go to war with each other? And all the other playable creatures

>>51259168
>Why don't they make more use of the good writers and devs?

Dave is already developing two game lines, writes for almost everything else, and has a real job. There are limits.

OPP also quite properly wants to try out new writers.

What OPP needs is far better management and oversight over the developers. Simply, Rich Thomas, the owner of OPP and its purported "creative director," is lousy at his job. That's why Exalted 3 was a late mess, Brucato ran rampant on M20, Requiem didn't release its fist supplement for years, and Beast needed major rewrites during the Kickstarter, among other less monumental screw-ups. WW is surviving despite Rich's incompetence, not because of any skill.

Normally I would hope that Paradox would take a more active hand, but Dracula and his oWOD and LARP fetishes, along with his "super edgy" comments straight out of 1993, do not inspire much confidence.

>>51259403

I like them but their game could use some work. Can't help but wonder what the game would be like if you only just played the Geist, though.

>>51259482

In classic WOD, they did go to war, and the already convoluted and bloated metaplot suffered even more.

In CofD, they have no inherent animosity, and war would be very unproductive for both sides. Except under specific circumstances on a local level, what would be gained for a species wide conflict?

>>51259536
When did they war in cWoD? Tell me the story I want to hear it

Any word on Changeling the Lost 2nd Edition?

>>51259452
>just turned humans

What part of "Some Clans shelter their fledglings for years or decades" do you not understand? Fledglings are as old or as young as the Storyteller needs them to be, and will have a like amount of experience and ability. As for above-average Willpower and the like, Vampires do not make a habit out of Embracing "average people". Well, except the Sabbat, but those vampires generally end up dying inside of a year. Only the exceptional ones survive.

>terribly underwhelming for elders

Got that covered to. Straight from V20, pg. 79, "Advancing New Characters" sidebar - these represent relatively "sedentary" elders of 300 years (who should then have an average of 17 Discipline dots, which bears out). The Elders are indeed somewhat underwhelming since they've only been built with 300 XP, which is only 50 over the minimum. However, given that the intent of the VMM is to create a stockpile of quick-and-dirty characters that can be used and then forgotten, I think they work as intended.

>>51259676 >>51259452
On a side note...I think the source of the issue here stems from a disagreement as to when Vampires get their dots in various abilities. You seem to think that, for example, that the bulk of a 0-XP Vampire's Traits aren't acquired until after the Embrace, but I've always personally presumed that most of them come from before the Embrace, with exceptions only made for the Traits that couldn't be acquired pre-Embrace, like Generation.

>>51259482
Speaking from a CofD perspective, why would they?

None of the global-level organizations (the Covenants, the Pentacle or the Seers, etc) have any reason to oppose each other on principle - in fact, quite the opposite. I know there are canonical mentions of the Ordo Dracul and the Invictus dealing with Pentacle and Seer mages from time to time.

At a local level they might fight over territory or local issues, but that's a matter for individual Princedoms/Consillia/Packs/Etc.

>>51259552
>cWOD Mage / Vampire War

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Massasa_War

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Treachery

>>51259484
While I think you're being a bit hard on Rich T, you're not wrong about OPP needing stricter management and oversight. Rich isn't incompetent - he can't handle the scale and volume of work that they're trying to get done, yes, but in his defense he's basically given him and his small team a near-impossible task. His problem is that he keeps just asking the fanbase to forgive them rather than actually taking steps to reorganize/figure out how to hire more people/change procedure so that the same mistakes don't keep happening.

And this is speaking as a Wraith20 backer, I know all about how their lack of oversight and willingness to just accept delays without doing, well, anything is holding them back from being taken seriously. I want Rich D's Wraith as much as anyone but for fucks sake, if it takes him 5 years to finish it then bring in another fucking developer to help him out, don't just say "please be patient (we have your money already)"

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I'm bored as all fuck

Tell me about your favourite WoD campaign. I want to hear a good story so don't leave any details out.

>>51260116
You're a vampire. it's not scary anymore. you kill god

>>51260004

I cannot forgive Rich for his abject lack of oversight and control over Brucato for M20.

I don't blame Brucato for being the douche he is (although allowing one person to write and develop M20, no less Brucato, was foolish). However, Rich knowingly allowed him carte blanche, and it is sadly evident.

>>51260146
Tour de Force, 5 Stars - The Guardian

VtR 2e question. How do you create Bloodlines? Both on a mechanical level, and on the in game processes for a character establishing a bloodline. The fourth Discipline added, if you're establishing a bloodline at BP 6 and you've not bought up any of that Discipline all you've done, essentially, is get yourself a discount, yeah? Or added a new one available if it's another clan's exclusive.

Just somewhat fresh to the game and curious how that aspect works out.

If you had to run a crossover game between any 2 of the CofD lines, excluding HtV, which would you go with?

>>51260503
Without having seen any of it, I'm leaning toward DtD and DtR. Might not go full Unchained on that side depending on just how low the Renegades are, but say some Fractals or Offspring and a Renegade or two fighting a GM backed conspiracy could be fun as hell.

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>>51258624

Question here, I red V20 Vampire the masquerade and I'm interested by V20 Vampire Dark Ages. Can I only read DA's setting or is DA's system and disciplines or are they so different that I'll have to get through a 600 page book all over again ?

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There has got to be a simpler term for "roll is considered an exceptional success on three successes instead of five".

I mean, we have rote actions, 9-again, 8-again, etc.

>>51258624

How sue-happy are White-wolf/CCCP/whatever-they-are-nowadays? I'm thinking about making a shitty (per defnition) indie game quite heavily inspired by WoD.

>>51260851

Undying and Urban Shadows haven't gotten the boot yet, so you should be safe.

>>51260503
If I had to run a two splat crossover? Requiem and Lost probably. Thematically speaking, they're within arms reach of each other, with more than a little overlap in places, and the mechanical power disparity isn't too bad.

>>51260503
Either Promethean and Geist or Promethean and Changeling.

>>51260851
They have no legal standing if you're not using their same terminology and such. Undying, for example, doesn't build in the same manner as WoD; it doesn't use 'clans' and such, and it's very vague in the terminology. Can't say anything about Urban Shadows, but there you go.

Makes me wonder: Can Demon use angel jacking and/or Infrasturucture to trigger New Dawn for Promethean

>>51260004
>Rich isn't incompetent - he can't handle the scale and volume of work that they're trying to get done, yes, but in his defense he's basically given him and his small team a near-impossible task.

Problem is that noone ask him for said impossible task. Noone ask for Deviant, beast or even demon. They should have just lets their main lines an 20ths run their course and then star focusing on new IPs. As its stands right now they have like 11+ gamelines that are stretched thin to make somewhat bellow average content.

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>>51258624
Goddammit I worked hard on this.

>>51261660
Looks more like you worked high on it, but we appreciate the effort.

>>51261700
I was drinking last night but still :-/

>>51261530
But if they weren't doing new gamelines, we couldn't get the lovely pronoun sidebars or all the gender-insanity.

>>51261530
how else can they spew their ridiculuous sidebars and political opinions so that we poor plebeians play our games right?

>>51261816
>>51261846

We don't need new gamelines for sidebars. They also needlessly take up room in supplements.

I additionally noticed that the open development blogs have basically gone silent. Except for an occasional OPP forum post by DavidH, it seems the experiment with open development and spoilers has come quietly to an end.

>>51262145

It's not that they've come to an end, it's that there's pretty much nothing to talk about. Changeling 2e's still in playtesting and development, and nothing major is in a writing state worth blogging about.

>>51261660
>>51261700
Next person to make the post be a bro and use this pic

>>51262229

We have Deviant, Signs of Sorcery for Mage, two Requiem supplements, Dark Eras Companion, etc.

There's more than enough going on to provide us with some spoiler scraps.

>>51261660
>>51262243

Wouldn't a vampire lawn chair burst into flames or disintegrate in sunlight?

So I'm about to run my first ever campaign this weekend, specifically M20. I'm very familiar with the system, so on that front I'm fine.

But I am so nervous to run the session itself. Does anyone have any tips about running a game for a new GM?

>>51262145
Perhaps we can convince them to put the sidebars in the development blogs so that there is more room in the supplements instead?

>>51262316
Both vampires and wood are flammable so by combining them you defeat their shared weekens...

>>51260990
>>51261392

That's great, thanks.

>>51258284

This is so fucking wrong. Archmasters don't pop up in parallel universes. It was an entirely optional theory in Imperial Mysteries. Stop spewing lies,

>>51256762

This is the comment of a biased vampire fan that cannot possibly fathom the idea that vampires are in-fact not the strongest splat.

Mages may actually be stronger than the god that cursed Cain considering Masters of the Art hinted twice that an archmage/exemplar might have created the universe/caused the big bang.

Why do I keep responding to idiots who keep clinging to the joke "YOU LOSE" character sheet. It's not legit.

Disciplines have never been above planetary in scale. Spheres can hurl the universe at you.

>>51262299

Almost nothing gets blogged about until it actually hits the Development phase.

>Deviant

Not even a solidified game yet, as far as we know. No point in sharing things that might not even make the setting bible, let alone the book.

>Signs of Sorcery

In development, already previewed. Could be more but I get the feeling that Deviant's bible takes top priority.

>Two Requiem suppliments

Only one of which is in Development, the other already previewed by Matthew Dawkins under Rose/Danielle's permission, who are caught up in Cavaliers of Mars and getting Half-Damned to development, respectively. That said, Half-Damned got previewed, but that seems to be more because Dawkins wanted to show off his work for a year-end wrapup rather than anything traditionally open development.

>Dark Eras Companion

That I'll give you, though a preview of that probably needs an individual line developer's green light to blog about and that's probably it's own can of worms given the workload most devs seem to have.

Open Development only works if there's enough material in Development to show off. The production cycle is too slow for this to be regular at this time. We will see if this speeds up, but for now, forum posts are pretty much all we've got, which is why some OPP posters seem to be doing compliantions of spoilers in dedicated threads.

>>51262437
>Perhaps we can convince them to put the sidebars in the development blogs so that there is more room in the supplements instead?

Stop with the crazy talk.

The blogs don't reach a large enough audience and are free.

The material must be in published books so the developers can save the world and force the consumers to pay for it.

>>51262659
>Half-Damned got previewed

When and where?

All I recall is a relatively recent A Thousand Years of Night preview about elder flashbacks, and totally devoid of any new rules or setting information.

>>51262623
Not this again

>>51262623
Why even bring it here?

We could have serious discussion about Chair: the Grilling in with Magister McReedy has to fight against vampiric lawn chairs that started to devour tourists during the summer season.

>>51262623

While it doesn't necessarily mean that an Ascension Archmage couldn't beat Caine, one Exemplar starting the big bang also doesn't necessarily mean that all Archmages or even Mages could be stronger than the Judeo-Christian God.

The whole point's moot anyway, since oWoD power levels are pretty much just whatever a developer decided at the time.

>>51262623
Vampire fans are idiots and still sore over the Lawn Chair Crusade of 1993. Of course mages are stronger than god? How could one think any differently?

Can we please stop shitting up the thread with supremacy arguments? The games weren't made with equivalency in mind, nor crossover, and it just causes arguments (or trolling).

>>51262771
There was a book saying the judeo Christian god may be nothing more than a powerful Celestine. Which would mean mages CAN become stronger than big G. But lots of OWoD books are retarded.

>>51262812
>Can we please stop shitting up the thread with supremacy arguments? The games weren't made with equivalency in mind, nor crossover, and it just causes arguments (or trolling).
Actually, OPP, the guys who introduced the stupidest, trolliest of all supremacy arguments into the cesspool (e.g. "if you care about game balance you're a little kid"), are ALSO the ones who really pushed for the crossover game idea.

Remember that one of the whole points of Ascension Revised was to lower the previously ever increasing Mage power levels by using the Avatar Storm to cut off masters, chantries, outer realms, etc..

It didn't exactly go over well with the fans...

>>51262771

God doesn't seem that impressive if he didn't create the universe.

>mage supremacy

>>51261660
What is this lawn chair meme? Something to do with the very real truth of Mage Supremacy?

>>51262715

Matthew Dawkins's end of the year blog, and it's only a single paragraph or two to show off what his favorite thing to write was: http://theonyxpath.com/2016-year-in-review-matthew-dawkins/

As for Thousand Years, I really doubt we're going to see any more previews until it hits stores, unless they want to do an open playtest on Elder rules. I don't expect anything super new in terms of mechanics, it'll probably just be lots of Devotions and maybe some kind of advanced social engineering system. Most of it'll probably be ST advice like the preview, if I were to venture a guess.

>>51262812
>CWOD games weren't made with equivalency in mind, nor crossover, and it just causes arguments

Blame WW's poor game design.

At least CofD, particularly 2e's, attempted some reasonable degree of mechanical compatibility.

>>51262815
>>51262849

>>mages are the absolute bestest of all bests
>>mages can destroy cain and his papa god

Happy?

>>51262854

The Lawn Chair meme goes back so far that it's actually explained and discussed in M20,

>>51262916
No. Because vampire fans are delusional and still deny our right to create our Imperium

>mage supremacy

>>51262949

I believe you might be confusing cWOD and CofD, but yes #MageSupremacy applies in both lines.

I kind of feel bad for werewolves and changelings. Absolutely no one thinks they're supreme about anything.

>judeo Christian god
>OWOD
Why do people keep saying this? Jesus is a disciple of the Devil and i'm pretty sure Mohammed is divine/divinely inspired (seeing Mecca has a true faith barrier)

>>51262993

I understood how utterly over-powerful (not overpowered, I don't have a problem with them being powerful) when I read that snippet about a mage creating a small sun to kill vampires.

>>51262812

One thing I have noticed about the splats is that those who play Vampire are the predominant voice of power inequality. They are really upset about being 2nd best in the OWoD. I find it hilarious that they're one of the weakest splats in Chronicles.

>>51263033
Wrong, Jesus was a Hermetic mage (Mage supremacy confirmed)

Am I the only who feels the starting amount of dots is rather small? I asked my ST for some bonus Experiences to round out an underqualified character, gave justifications and everything, but still got a no. Am I asking too much?

>>51263052
>snippet about a mage creating a small sun to kill vampires

Where is this snippet?


>>51263073

Vampires are hardly one of the weakest CofD splats.

At least in 2e, they received a significant power boost.

>>51263151
>Jesus was a Hermetic mage

Jesus was a nephandi who was a former member of the Celestial Chorus.

FIFY.

Is there a particular reason why you can't create atomic explosions with Forces 5? Or has that limitation been removed in 2e?

>>51262623

Masters of the Art has some really disgusting powers bordering on instant "I win" levels. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with this assessment.

>>51262771

I would like to believe this. But God doesn't have very many feats other than being a dick.

>>51263033

One if the reasons why I don't like the idea of the Abrahamic god being the supreme being. It just seems silly.

>>51262623
>>51262759
>>51262849
>>51262916
>>51262949
>>51263259

Get out of here mage supremacist whores

>>51263168
>Hey ST, can I have extra XP that other players don't get?
Unsurprised he said no. However yes, if you want to play more than a newly Awakened/Embraced/whatever character, you're going to need extra experiences.

So change your damn character concept to fit the power level.

>>51263182

I think it is in the first nWoD mage book. Or it might have just been a real spell written down there and I'm imagining the rest, it's been a while.

>>51263236

You can create a honking big explosion with radiation at Forces 5, but nothing really thermonuclear. Dave indicated that still requires a Force 6 Dynamics Practice.

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/45982134/#45986807

>>51263182

>Vampires are hardly one of the weakest CofD splats.

Not weak. Compared to others? Weak.

>>51263319

If you don't like the idea of a mage butt slapping God get the hell out.

>>51263340
It seems like an odd limitation. You can 'easily' create ultra pure weapons grade plutonium with Matter magic and still set off an explosion the mundane way.

So a mate and I are planning on getting into nWoD/CoD (I know two isn't ideal, but we're hoping to get some others later), and I'm gonna be the ST with him playing a regular joe human sorta guy, who is a private investigator (figured that was a good way to get into supernatural shenanigans)

So I've got the basic hook, where the young and attractive second wife of an older richer guy dies shortly after they move into a new house, and it's ruled a suicide, but the husband doesn't believe it. A bit of research would turn up that the house has a habit of women dying in it, and then eventually it would turn out that the women are killed by ghost of a woman who killed herself, but then came back and drove her husband and son mad until they both turned into Slashers, with the son turning into a Mask and living in the house hidden from the residents until his mother gave him the permission to kill woman who set foot in the house, each time a new one does so (I'm not entirely sure if a ghost basically having a Scourge on a lead works or not, but neither of us know a whole lot about the lore, so it sorta works for this game).

So I'm not sure how well the concept works, and also what sort of story beats I should have in place. I know the actions are driven by his character, but I've never run an investigation game before and need to put some framework in there. I was planning for him to have a female NPC helper thing who can give him some information and who I'm planning on having visit the house so the Mask will go after her and my player's character might sort of need to protect her, but I'm not sure how I should introduce his character to the whole supernatural thing, and the best way to set up the whole mystery/investigation element.

Any players/ST's with good advice? (Or people who've run investigations in other games)

>>51263214
The Order of Hermes Tradition Book states on p.11 that he was a Mage. Where is the book that states that Jesus was a Nephandus?

>>51263182

>Where is this snippet?

I direct you to any Mage corebook ever.

>Says vampires aren't weak

You are beyond mental therapy

>>51262993

Werewolves are pretty monstrous in 2nd edition.

A mage can't simply nuke (unless the obvious Unmaking practice) them now. They must rely on locking them down. Which is inherently worse for the werewolf because they will start to study the beast.

Ban is a really powerful spell. Not much hope of escaping that without outside help.

>>51263236

Because nuclear explosions are a result of the properties inherent in certain types of atoms which allow them to cause a feed back loop, not a property of what kind or how much energy is present.

the arcana you want is Matter.

Did anyone here ever RP a transexual character? How did that turn out? What did it add to the concept? Where you able to do it without being disrespectful or disruptive?

>>51262933
One of the most successful troll moment in mage history. 4chan got the fans so mad they had to put it into the book. The best wins me chaps the best

>>51263611
>disrespectful
>disruptive

rly makes u think

>>51263319

Calm down. Jesus. Do people naturally hate mages?

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>>51263465
>Jesus is mage Rasputin

>>51263673
The lawn chair is the logo of mage supremacy. There was never a second choice.

>>51263706
We hate it when you shit up the thread with nothing but HURR DURR MAGE BEAT EVERYTHING.

>>51263611
If I were to ever RP a trans person, I would be sneaky about it. I would describe my character as leaning towards masculine/feminine, but ultimately I would only outright tell the ST. Let him help me drop clues until the other players figure it out, the ultimate goal being to avoid having "being trans" thrust under the spotlight as my character's defining trait.

But that's all a moot point because I don't even like to RP as the opposite sex, so I would probably never RP a trans person. Too weird.

>>51263775
But mages do beat everything.

>>51263572

Can't they just transmute his blood into silver or some other OP-as-fuck stuff?

>>51263775
Don't feel bad. The truth can be hard to handle.

>>51263784
>>51263826

Personally, I don't give two shits. Mages in my games don't use the standard Mage rules, just like if I were to ever run Mage vampires would not use the standard Vampire rules.

I'm sick of the shitty threads. This is ALMOST as bad as Aspel and Camilla.

>>51263775
Don't worry general threads have cycles. I expect we'll be going on and on about changeling when it get's closer to release.

We could talk about the best way to role-play self castration during Crúac if it'll make you feel better.

>:^)

>>51263817
Debatable. If you can't see the blood, can it be cast at sensory range? It would obviously take Life and Matter, but at adept or master level? Can you afford to sit around and cast a high level combined spell while a werewolf is trying to kill you?

>>51263868
Are you saying that you deliberately make mages weaker in your games?

>>51263868
I tend to go full uniqueness for crossover. Like, when I run Vampire Mages are freaky blood magic type people, werewolfs are animalistic monsters with no spirit stuff, and so on.

Like, in Changeling everything comes back to Arcadia, the Hedge, and the Wyrd, and in Mage everything comes back to the Supernal and the Abyss, and so on.

>>51263885

Ok, can't a matter/force mage just quite simply create a small silver ball and 'shoot' it into the werewolf? That's a very simple way to hurt a werewolf quite severly, if he can get off several 'rounds'.

>>51263914
Only when playing, say, Vampire. If my Vampires run into Mages they don't use the Mage rules, and if I were running Mage the same would be true for Vampires.

>>51263942
If he can get off several rounds, wouldn't the mage be dead?

>>51263817
No need to be fancy. Grab some silver and go 'magneto' on them.

>>51263926

I think that's a good way to run it. It's supposed to be horror after all, and for example the werewolves 'nobility' or whatever (spirit police) isn't supposed to be obvious to an outsider, knowledge only gained from deep scrutiny. I mean, a werewolf killing innocent bystander in Garou-form would seem (and is) absolutely monstrous, but we don't know the reason that he went into Garou in the first place.

>>51263942
Yes, but creating matter is a Master level practice. So not all that simple. A weaker matter mage could essentially accomplish the same thing in a much simpler and easier way just by transmuting the bullets in his gun to silver.

>>51263914
They're as powerful as I need them to be. I don't troll through every book (i don't have the brainpower to memorize everything) looking for LE HAXXOR BROKEN COMBO stuff to power up/power down things. I fudge the stats appropriately. I do this with all of the creatures in the games if my players go poking around in other supernaturals' business (assuming there even ARE other supernaturals in games, sometimes there are and sometimes there aren't).

>>51263948
They have to cope somehow, I guess. Not easy being one of the weakest splats.

>>51263873

I'm not super sold on Changeling 2e, but I'm looking forward to the discussion when it drops.

Of course I say that now, but when it actually happens and the thread gets into a three thread long row about something I'll just end up wanting to sleep on a bed of nails.

>>51263997

Yeah, and I guess a human could also just buy silver bullets come to think of it. Man, werewolves are piss weak.

>>51264050
God-tier: Mages
Shit with potential-tier:Random humans
Shit-tier: Everyone else

>>51263995
No, when I run Vampire Werewolves aren't spirit police at all. They're just people who turn into wolves and wolf-like monsters and have a tendency to go on rampages.

>>51264050
Silver isn't an instakill against a werewolf, it just hurts like a bitch and it doesn't wolverine heal like all the other wounds they get. On top of being crazy strong physically, werewolves also have "gifts", their equivalent of disciplines.

A mage can easily become equipped to kill a werewolf, but that isn't the same thing as easily killing them.

>>51264115

Ok, but my point is that werewolves could easily seem to be that to anyone even if they are run as spirit police, so it isn't disgustingly non-canon lore-rape to run it that way either. It was a compliment dude.

>>51264155

I know, I've played it. But I've never been up against a human with a glock full of silver bullets either.

>>51264115
Why?

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>>51260116

My favorite WoD campaign was a human-based game, at first. It took place in Savannah, GA, modern day. I played a regular guy named Carver Hoyte. The pudgy, socially awkward, second son of a formerly wealthy Old-South family who lost everything in Sherman's Advance but their sense of entitlement.

He was the night clerk at his family's hotel, which at one time had been the family home, converted into a bed and breakfast the third time the family went bankrupt in the late 1970s.

Carver believed that the hotel was haunted, experiencing strange activity in the rooms and halls on an almost weekly basis. His grandmother, the current owner, insisted that she didn't want the 'bad publicity' of a seance, ghost hunter invitation or psychic medium visit and refused to acknowledge his wild stories.

The game began one night, when my character was watching the front desk - and strange things began happening in the hotel. Pages of magazines were left open, things went missing and began moving. Finally, he decided that enough is enough, and he began trying to contact the ghosts, to tell them to get the fuck out, and if it was his ancestors, to curse them for losing the family money and making him a midnight taxi-caller.

He gets no reply, or so he thinks.

The next morning, the other player (Ciera) showed up. She was a architectural student who was doing an appraisal of the hotel as a part of her master's thesis on converted antebellum buildings - telling Carver that she was sent by his grandmother to get a value of everything in the hotel. All the antiques, crown molding, chandeliers, everything.

That's when the game got weird. To paraphrase a very long campaign that was done in an incredibly grass-roots style... Carver and Ciera begin digging into the history of the hotel and his family, doing rudimentary occult research. They eventually brush shoulders with the owner of "Venetian Imports Antiques", a man named Pinot Giovanni...

>>51264174
Because it throws off players who like to read all the books, and allows other splats to fit into the game's themes. It also lets me integrate them more fully, like, werewolves in Vampire react to the Vampire's Beast and vice versa, and Mages in Vampire tend to use Vampires as spell components.

>>51264242
Ok, I can dig it.
>Mages in Vampire tend to use Vampires as spell components
How does that work?

>>51264266
Well, they're blood mages, so they get most of their power through shedding blood and sacrifice. Vampire blood is more potent than normal blood, and is better for magic. Vampire bits, like a heart of whatever, can be sacrificed for a boost to their magic.

I don't have in-depth mechanics and stuff for it, since most of it is just in my head and isn't designed for PC's.

Blood magic is bad at summoning fire or sunlight or teleporting or whatever, but good at making knock-off ghouls or enchanting people. Because it's designed to fit into Vampire, but not dominate everything like a normal Mage would.

>>51264045
>Changeling 2e, but I'm looking forward to the discussion when it drops.
>but when it actually happens and the thread gets into a three thread long row about something I'll just end up wanting to sleep on a bed of nails.

Would it be a bed of iron nails?

A mage friend could even create a bed of perfected iron Siderite nails because of the obvious mage supremacy.

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>>51264180
Following a lead on occult books, they take a trip to the 'Blacker' side of town and meet a Black Panther looking guy named... Solomon I think? Who tells them they're getting in over their heads with this research, and that they need to stop. They don't.

So they continually skirt the outsides of Vampire society, as humans, without any of the vampires ever breaking the Masquerade - while combating a Wraith Hierarchy advance into the square, with the Hotel as it's beachhead.

There were changelings and werewolves, vampires and wraiths, a mage and a hunter - and eventually Carver became Solomon's Ghoul, who turned out to be a Tremere... and one of the Slaves who went through the old Underground Railroad, that was run by the Wraith who still haunted the Hotel and had been trying to warn them about the Heirarchy, and helping fight them on the other side of the Shroud. God that was a good game.

>>51263885
A mage can very well 1v1 a werewolf. Magic vs Claws. Just don't focus on doing damage like a D&D sorcerer. You lock the fucker down like a classic D&D wizard without any collateral damage. Then proceed to neuter/castrate the inferior lifeform after thoroughly studying it.

>>51264326

Don't think Changeling are safe from the United Mage Imperium. Once 2e drops we will discuss ways to fuck you over entirely. Merely another lawn chair to sit on.

>>51264373
No joke, that sounds like one hell of a fucking game. God, I wish I could get into a game like that. But I'm kinda bad at making characters that aren't just muscle for combat anyway so maybe there's a reason

>>51264155

A smart mage is going to wipe the floor with a werewolf.

>>51264449

I'm not sure I would completely trust a changeling lawn chair.

Maybe a changeling garden gnome would be more appropriate.

>>51264449

Can't mages just fuck over a changeling by making their contracts useless? Can't they do similar things to demons?

>>51264524

Yes, but not every mage is proficient in Fate. Sometimes a mage needs to get a little creative or exert some effort in order to demonstrate their obvious superiority.

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>>51264463
The game ran consistently for over a year, and culminated in our characters sacrificing themselves to stop a rogue, psychotic, transvestite Changeling from releasing some kind of Faerie disease that he thought would, somehow, return him to Arcadia because he was in love with the True Fae who'd grown tired of him.

At least, that's what I thought happened. Until we started our next game, with the same ST... who brought our own characters back as NPCs that we accidentally ran into in New Orleans.

And I was like, "OMG Carver! You survived the explosion!" in my head. I felt like I got reunited with a long lost friend.

I love my ST, man.

>>51264524

There will always be an anti-splat mage lurking among the inferiors ready to spread word of mage supremacy.

>>51264598
That's not a good counter argument. Fate is one of the most practical spheres to have. A mage will always know of another mage willing to fuck over a changeling. Cabals stick together.

>>51264689

I think you mean Arcanum. But you're still correct.

>>51264385

Good analogy

>>51264325

That's a cool idea and I support it.

>>51264689
My character doesn't trust Fate magic and he thinks that messing around with time is iffy. Naturally he does not trust Acanthus.

>>51264885
Acanthus mages curbstomping changelings aside. Wouldn't a fate mage be a great friend for a changeling to have?

Also what would happen if an Acanthus mage teamed up with an open minded Hunstman? Seems scary to think about.

>>51264997
Mages are assholes. Sure they can make powerful allies but it's an absolute certainty that they will screw you over.

>>51264598
Why do people act like imbued items/artifacts don't exist?

Even if a mage doesn't have dots in the proper arcanum they're still dangerous.

>>51265183
Very true. If I were something other than an Acanthus and I didn't want to sink time into learning Fate, then I would be sure to at least get a Fate imbued item or even an artifact from Arcadia if I could manage it.

>>51265144

Are all mages truly assholes? Why can't an Acanthus and a Fairest Changeling be BFFs?

I don't see how a mage has to be a dick to a changeling just because he's more powerful/capable.

>>51265417
A mage being more powerful has nothing to do with it. They're just dicks. It's as simple as that. And they enjoy it too.

>>51265417
>Are all mages truly assholes?
Not especially.

>>51259403
Pretty cool concept, but they are a bit too locked into their themes, and the system is badly underdeveloped.
The Key/Manifestation mechanic was fun, but would be a nightmare to expand.

Is it common for the game line developers not to write for the books produced in the line?

>>51265183
So a well prepared mage can counter any splat 1v1? Prime is pretty sweet.

>>51265417
I mean the central theme of the game is hubris and figuring out what you're willing to do for power.

>>51265688
All the arcana are hilariously overpowered if someone ever says x arcana is weak it's clear that they don't understand the arcana.

>>51259482
a) Why would they
b) Mages would stomp

Seriously, you're talking about pitting a group of creatures who die to sunlight and fire and have to spend half their time hidden away in a coma, against a group of people who can track down someone and drop a fireball on their head from across the city. This does not end well for the vampires.

Werewolves and Mages would be slightly more even thanks to werewolves having greater interpack co-operation, more flexible powers, a less exploitable set of weaknesses, and spirit allies, but all it takes is a Mage with Spirit 3 and the spirits are out the window with the rest to shortly follow.

Changelings and Geists are the most powerful non-Mage (non-Mummy, non-Demon, non-Beast, but fuck those latecomers) splats. Geists just don't have the flexibility to handle hostile Magi, especially if they've dipped into Death at all. Changelings are more robust, lack obvious weaknesses, and have better friends than most splats, plus Arcadia wank on their side... but it still goes to the Mages, who can slam them with Clarity loss until they run weeping back into the Hedge.

>>51265417
It's not just that mages are assholes (which they are) mages and changelings tend to have opposing viewpoints about what they are.

To a changeling still bearing a mutilated body/psyche from their escape from perpetual soul rape by alien overlords nothing could be better than regaining their humanity and some dignity.

So when a changeling sees a group of mages going around turning vampires into lawn chairs or whatever in their mad quest to gain more power and forsake the 'mundane' humanity the changeling wants back.

They probably look on with a sense of horror, disgust, and probably some pity.

>>51265819
1e Death
pls gimme ideas that keep my Wisdom at 7, all I can think of is Destroy Object spam and popping over to the Twilight to sneak into places.

>>51266089
>keep my Wisdom at 7
There's your problem. Embrace the madness.

>>51265417
>Mages are obsessed with Changelings is a common stereotype
>my Mage didn't care about Changelings until he found out one of them was interested about the Underworld and they both nerded out about ghosts and shit

>>51266089
>>51266109
>Not dropping down to 5 morality equivalent in 1st edition
Why did you even bother with a character sheet?

>>51266089
Does manipulating shadows and working with ghosts lower Wisdom or something? Because those things are actually really useful. I also really like the Cold Snap spell from 2e but this is 1e we're talking about.

also
>wanting to keep high Wisdom
If you haven't made some morally dubious choices then you aren't playing the game right.

>>51266027

This was always a known fact. Any who would disagree is a biased baboon.

Mage, Mummy and Demon seem to be the holy trinity of strongest splats. I never considered Beast to be on their level.

Mage seems to have the highest theoretical potential though. Archmasters and ascended beings etc.

>>51265417
No, but each has the compulsion to chase their Obsessions, frequently at the cost of Wisdom.
The quickest and easiest way to enlightenment, is not the most moral way.
And that can involve probing questions, being an insufferable busybody, horrific invasions of privacy and the sanctity of mind, and even mystical vivisections.

>>51266089
Not sure if this is true in 1e but silence, darkness, and cold aren't just the absence of force but the presences of death. So imagine a necromancy themed bobby drake.

>>51266197

Was it ever stated how much more powerful ascended mages/archmages are compared to normal archmasters? They don't seem to do much. Could the Exarchs/Oracles directly intervene if their Ochemata fail?

I always assumed that they are all under a permanent Transfiguration/Assumption effect and don't need to use Quintessence.

Anybody watch "Trollhunter" on netflix? It's got some nice visuals for a changeling game.

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>>51266321
>It's got some nice visuals for a changeling game.
You should check out the source material.

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>>51266321
i watched it it was pretty good as far as found footage films go i highly recommend Frankenstein's army if you liked that one

>>51266321
also are you talking about changeling the lost or the dreaming or both?

>>51266312
It's not stated but it's safe to infer an ascended being is far far above an archmage. I mean their Ochemata (small almost trivial fractions of their master's soul) have the rote quality on all rolls and are so saturated with magic it's almost debilitating to be near one.

>>51266422
>>51266428

I mean the cartoon directed by del torro. It's kiddy but it's got some dark themes under the surface.

>>51266447

Yes.

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>>51266480
>I mean the cartoon directed by del torro
So do I.

>>51266312

I'm pretty sure the Exarchs would eat the God-Machine for breakfast. No amount of True Fae or rank 8-9 spirits is going to hamper them. They already won their right to rule the World of Darkness. Most splat fan bases will ignore this out of wrongful distaste.

>Mage Supremacy

>>51266560
I for one accept our Exarch overlords.

>>51266560
Unless the Exarchs created the God-Machine. I'd think that that's one of the main theories behind the thing, right after 'time-traveling US government project gone horribly wrong.'

How do you encounter Goetia in the Fallen world, outisde of the ones that people summon?

Ghosts emerge in the world, and can return through Avernian Gates. Spirits can Awaken in the world, and come across from the Shadow either with their own power, or at Verges.

However Goetia? As far as I can read, they can only arise in the Fallen World, when summoned from the Astral, or through a Mystery.

Hello my fellow Mages

>>51266729
Greetings fellow Mage. Come and join us as we discuss our superiority over the inferiors.

>>51266480
>Del Toro anything

Fuck no

>>51266628
I'm more partial to the theory that it was an tangential unintended creation during the chaos of the exarchs ascent into the supernal.

Fragments of the time before coalesced into a self sustaining 'boltzmann brain'.

Can someone post the updated power chart for my studies pls
Thx in advance

>>51265417
>Why can't an Acanthus and a Fairest Changeling be BFFs

They can no more truly be friends than you can be friends with a monkey or baboon.

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I'm starting a V20 Dark Ages chronicle with some friends. Does /tg/ have any suggestions to ensure/maximize personal tragedy?

>>51266628
>>51266796

Imperial Mysteries suggests that the God Machine is (or was) a supernal that god kicked out of the supernal during the ascendency of the Exarchs. It now seeks to create a supernatural machine or matrix that will permit it to reenter the supernal.

>>51266866
That was written before the God-Machine chronicle.
However that doesn't make it any less or more true.

>>51266866

>mage supremacy

>>51266856
Plague. Everyone/everything dies.

>>51266898
That's more of a regular tragedy than a personal one. I'm looking for ways to trap them so that every conceivable option requires them doing something horrible (beyond the baseline of drinking blood &c).

>>51266801

1. Archmage
2. Prepared Mage
3. Demon.
4. Mummy
5. Mage
6. Beast
7. Werewolf
8. Changeling
9. Vampire
10. Promethean
11. Hunter

Sin Eaters are weird and I don't care about them. Deviant is free form apparently.

>>51266934
Is a Beast really stronger than a Werewolf?

>>51266961

They're close enough. Beasts just seem to edge them out a bit.

>>51266984
If Beasts are so strong then why are Heroes such a huge threat to them? Heroes don't have powers, right?

>>51267001
They aren't a real mechanical threat but they can generate weaknesses/banes/whatever they called them in Beasts they are pursuing.

>>51266884
>>mage supremacy

Well, at least archmage supremacy.

>>51266934
Seems accurate. Sin Eaters would probably take Beasts place right under the Mage. They were pretty strong in 1e.

>>51267134
Archmage supremacy is basically one grade above mage supremacy. There is no difference.

>archmage supremacy

Lotta Magesplaining going on in this thread.

So I'm new to WoD as we just finished our first session. Using a combination of Hunter Virgil and Reckoning. Any traps I should be aware of when building a character?

>>51263259

>Masters of the Art has some really disgusting powers bordering on instant "I win" levels.

What does Anon mean by this? Explain yourself.

>>51267442
Don't forget to get insurance. Not having life insurance makes for a hard life in trying times.

>>51267327
>Lotta Magesplaining going on in this thread.

Consider it a little noblesse oblige by mages for their inherently inferior and less developed accomplished cousins in the WOD/CofD.

>>51267457
Sounds more like RL advice. Appreciated.

>>51267507
Being uninsured is also a 2 point flaw in the Hunter: Players Guide for some reason.

>>51267454

Anon is probably referring to the utter ridiculousness that is the archspheres. You could also just read the book.

>>51267591
>Implying people on /tg/ can read.

>>51267639
I, personally, don't even know what a book is.

Non-Mages are lesser cattle meant to serve us Mages

OK, so we all know Mages are the Master Race, but which of the Paths is the greatest?

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>>51267713
Sexually?

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>>51267795
As food actually.

>>51267454

Mind 9 Every mind in the universe is now a single mind. The automatic win ability.

Forces 9 Can alter the entire universe to suit your whims. Create black holes, galaxies and cause a second Big Bang, etc. Combined with other spheres this is the grandest ability in the setting.

Entropy 9 Complete control over destiny. You write the story of the universe.

Time 9 You exist outside/apart from time. You are the oldest thing in existence. You are also impossible to find.

Life 9 It is impossible to die by any means. Only an actual god can harm you.

There you go. It is a miracle that the Classic World of Darkness even exists at all.

The more I read of Beast. The more I want to be a Hero.

>get awesome conviction and a sense of purpose
>get to hunt down literal monsters in human skin that exist only to cause death, pain and suffering
>get adulation from my followers
>the more monsters I kill the stronger I get, getting shit like a holy weapon

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal.

While I know it takes may generations of breeding and sorcery to actually create a Revenant Family. If a ghoul was look for a way to become a revenant, basically someone who is capable of generating vitae within their own veins, how would you rule it and want disadvantages would you give to the player?

>>51267861

Masters of the Art doesn't even list 10 dot sphere effects. One has to wonder what's more powerful than even those. They're already beyond 10 dot disciplines.

>>51267753

If mages are the master race. Then Acanthus would be the master race of the master race.

>>51267753
Wouldn't the Obrimos be the strongest among the mages when it came to mage vs mage arguments? Or any mage with prime, really. It's the anti magic thing.

>>51267829
What would werewolf taste like, exactly?

>>51268095
>Acanthus
Time travel is bad and you should feel bad.

>>51268182
>Wouldn't the Obrimos be the strongest among the mages when it came to mage vs mage arguments? Or any mage with prime, really. It's the anti magic thing.

Obrimos are actually the weakest of the Mage types. Acthanus are total bullshit, and the other three types can summon minions to fight alongside them. Obrimos are limited to blasting and anti-magic.

>>51268182
>What would werewolf taste like, exactly?
Given their half spirit nature I sure hope it tastes like the exemplar of the idea of meat.

>>51268202
>Obrimos
>can summon minions to fight alongside them

If you don't believe that Obrimos can summons minions, your knowledge of Prime is sorely deficient.

>>51268237
Eidolons are weaksauce compared to Spirits, Goetica, and Ghosts tho.

>>51268202
>Not using Prime to create an army of obscene phantasms to do your bidding.

>>51268006
Ghouls can't become revenants. Revenants are born through ghouls having sex.

But anyway, if you choose to allow this somehow, the main disadvantage of being a revenant (like with a ghoul) is that you get bossed around by vampires all the time, and you're still blood-sworn to them. Other disadvantages include dying to lethal damage like a human and (at least according to the wiki) having a wider range of things that trigger frenzy and Rötschreck, but the difficulty to resist is less (I'd rule that the difficulty can't be more than 5 except in extreme circumstances).

>>51268202

Obrimos are weak, you say? The Prime Arcanum? You mean the shit that can make Imbued Items? You mean the shit that can counter any other Arcanum? They are going to have a much easier time fighting other mages and having a truckload of magic goodies.

>>51267861

If archmages can buttfuck the entire universe then why are vampires and other splats even existing at this point? Is the metaplot THAT inconsistent/bad ?

>>51268294
Say that to my ten spirits.

>>51268294

Forces is also not exactly an Arcanum for chumps, particularly at adept and mastery levels.

>>51268322

Other splats exist because they are so insignificant that they barely warrant notice from superior beings like mages.

Mages have more important things to do than spend their time killing insects and vermin.

>>51266934
Nah. In CofD, one-on-one a Werewolf stands no serious chance at defeating a vampire.

The only thing the Werewolf has on their side is Regeneration, but if the Vampire can hold out for half a minute or so, that advantage fades.

A starting Werewolf has a chance, but the more XP they spend, the further ahead the Vampire goes.


Werewolf strengths is in that they have a pack of people on their level. Vampires, at best, have minions.

>>51268384

But when a mage can (apparently mind 9) turn all minds in the universe into a single goddamn mage mind why is the universe not run by a single mage god-emperor? And if a forces 9 mage can threaten the entire universe with a second big bang (really?) what's to stop people from being forced to worship him/her ?? I thought vampires were the strongest splat and then this bullshit happens.

>>51268182
>What would werewolf taste like, exactly?

Sort of like pig, apparently.

>>51268269
As I said, yes a "true" revenants are able to pass on their ability to naturally produce vitae and it takes time and sorcery to do that. I'm asking how would a ghoul would gain the ability to naturally produce vitae as a revenant does and as an ST what ritual/sorcery or whatever else would the rules to do it and what would the consequences for doing so.

Basically it a kind of generation question if ghouls are gen 10 and revenants are gen 9.

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Hey guys, what's going on?

Out of curiosity I read through Demon the Fallen recently and though I like the fluff and the premise, is it just me or is the actual demon template really bad?

Coming off of the mage spheres and even vampire disciplines lores seem awfully limiting and not that powerful and interesting.

Am I wrong? Should I keep reading, does it even matter?

>>51268446
>But when a mage can (apparently mind 9) turn all minds in the universe into a single goddamn mage mind why is the universe not run by a single mage god-emperor?

Who says it isn't.

>>51268573
Are you suggesting that Donald Trump is an archmage?

>>51268573
Step 1: Mage reaches Mind 9 and annihilates all sense of individuality
Step 2: The gestalt consciousness gets so incredibly bored it starts to experiment with dividing itself up
Step 3: It does so well that it's as if it was never separated in the first place
Step 4: Go to Step 1

>>51268446

Mind 9 is pretty horrifying, yeah. They are also described as incredibly rare in the book. Which definitely means they exist. This implies that everything happening in the Classic World of Darkness is a universal ""just as planned"".

God was meant to curse Cain. Avatar Storm was just a prank. Gehenna is simply just a board game.

I don't think the writers had any idea just what sort of power they were handing over to mages.

>>51268591

Trump is clearly an Ochemata sent down by the Exarchs. Just like the Pope is the Ochemata of the Father.

>>51268672
This is a very scary thing to think about. Especially if the book says they exist. Which would mean it's probably true.

>>51268795

Nightmare fuel for mage haters everywhere.

>>51268488
There's canonically no ritual that does that (if there is, it's very, very jealously guarded by the Giovanni and/or Tzimisce). The ST would have to let you make one up.

>>51268294
Acanthus win so hard at everything that even DaveB acknowledges their superiority. As for fighting other mages, being capable of hurting you by asking your neighbor's sister's best friend for a smoke in passing is not to be scoffed at.

>>51268845
I pity them

>>51268294
>Imbued Items?
Which are shit, but for accessing Magic you couldn't in the first place. Which is not a problem for the person who actually MAKES them

>Counter any other Arcanum
That's an attempt to counter, which requires an action, and possibly Mana. It's not exactly proactive. You can't really DO anything while counterspelling.

Anon, Prime is supplementary at best. All its other stuff, with Tass constructs, can mostly be better done by other Arcana, and THEY don't require the expenditure of Mana to actually use their creations.

>>51268992

Where did he acknowledge this?

>>51269110

Prime isn't as overly useful as it was in Ascension, but it's hardly the most useless Arcanum in Awakening.

>>51268672

So, according to you a wizard (or group thereof) is responsible for the horrible metaplot of OWoD? Sounds reasonable enough. Especially if that ultimate Big Bang spell is legit.

>>51269202
>hardly the most useless Arcanum in Awakening
No, that would be either Death, or an uninspired application of Forces.

>>51269218

It's very easy to abuse the Death Arcanum. I wouldn't call it useless either. Forces is too varied to be labeled as anything.

>>51269218
Death has ghost summoning.

>>51269319

Why do you think Spirit is the inferior Arcana for Moros? A whole army of ghosts and spirits doesn't bode well for the enemies of the mage.

>>51269202

>>Especially if that ultimate Big Bang spell is legit.

It is legit. It explicitly affects the entire universe. Do you know how big the universe is? Creating black holes and destroying galaxies isn't difficult for a Forces 9 Archmage.

>>51269398
Exactly.

>>51269307
"Most useless" is a bit of a misnomer. "Least useful" would be more accurate.

>>51269517

I wouldn't call it the most useless Arcanum either.

>>51269459

I feel sorry for the other splats if archmages are this powerful.

>>51268626

This is also hilarious.

>>51269517
Let's all remember that we're arguing about what the least useful god-like set of powers are here. A mage has already won, now we just gotta decide who's got the best dick to skull-fuck everyone else with.

>>51269672

They're discussing OWoD mages I believe. Destroying universes is hardly the province of CofD mages.

>>51269672

Fucking over others? I liked the previous idea of an Acanthus Mage teaming up with an Arcadian Hunstman and ruining a Changeling completely.

>>51269726
No we're talking about the Arcana from Awakening.

I can forge planes with my power I can unmake you

>>51269726
They're discussing arcanum (at least the anon I quoted) so it has to be about CofD. The anons going on about big bangs are talking about Ascension though.

>>51269777
I'd honestly go with befriending changelings myself, whether sincerely or not. Access to Goblin Markets is priceless, and they may even have shit that completely bypasses the few limitations mages have.

>Anon Forgets that 90% of information is done via the medium of electrical signals

Literally no reason why a forces mage can't watchdog the shit out of a city,

>>51269867
That's nice man, those poor lesser splats need all the help they can get

>>51269398
I'm imagining a pissed of Thrysus riding into battle on the back of a triceratops with legions of angry spirits and ghosts following him howling for blood.

How strong can a vampire with coils get? compared to other CofD ?

>>51270083
The Sundered World was a hell of a time to be alive.

How do mixed parties do? Can you have Vampire and hunter PC's in the same party? Want to get in but I have a few snowflakes that are gonna ask.

So no memes, I'm legit asking. How can I run a good game of beast. Not sure how I like the example given in the pdf

>>51270166
It needs a Mage to lead them

>>51269826

Are Ascension mages actually capable of causing the big bang?

>>51270166
Crossovers are mechanically possible but never really work out all that great. The splats just don't mesh well, thematically and otherwise. For example, what is the vampire player going to be doing while the hunter is up and about during the day taking care of his shit? Sitting there with his thumb up his ass? Or are you going to have all the scenes set at night, even though that limits the hunter?

And there are a bunch more reasons. Beast was supposed to offer solutions to that and be the ultimate crossover splat, but the only reason they could come up with is "have Beasts be kin to EVERYONE. Everyone likes Beasts, don't ask why.".

What you should do is tell your snowflakes to buck up and try to enjoy what the majority wants to play. You'll get to their preferred splat soon enough.

>>51270260
So assume I had a person wanting to play a mage, one a vampire and two hunters, can i run this and what books do I/They need?

>>51270253
>How can I run a good game of beast
Throw your pdf in the recycling bin and make up your own rules and lore. Can't be worse than what's official.

>>51270323

Crossover still works better in CofD compared to OWoD. Splat equality has never been a thing, though.

>>51270253
For me at least, a good game of Beast should be about monsters getting together not just for convenience, but because they genuinely empathize with each other.

Also, make sure to give both Beasts and Heroes despicable and redeeming traits. The game loses much of its potential for drama if there is a clear cut "right side".

Lastly, remember that Beasts are there to support the other supernaturals, not outshine them.

>>51270377

>>Lastly, remember that Beasts are there to support the other supernaturals, not outshine them.

Right, because that's the mages job.

>>51270336
>three way crossover
I wouldn't advise it.

>>51270406
>>51270323
Honestly they will listen even if i told them to fucking deal, but I like to give my friends a mechanical/logical reason why it isn't worth effort. I think they want to play something that is definitely not Dylan Dog Dead of Night.

Can we please talk about something other than the Mage Supremacy meme? There's truth to it, sure, but it's getting old.

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>>51258624
So I'm currently running a Mage the Awakening game that takes place at a summer camp ala psychonauts for those who have awakened early in life. What sort of whacky hijinx/enemies can /tg/ think of for this setting?

>>51270500

rape

>>51270500
>trying to scry into the girl's shower
>the camp forest actually leads into the Hedge. Campers aren't allowed to go in but they do anyway
>that one douchebag councilor who is everyone thinks is a Seer but isn't
>that one nice and understanding councilor who is actually a Seer
>some Atlantean ruins at the bottom of the lake
>fear spirits that are drawn to ghost stories
>maybe have a werewolf pack operating in the forest

Humble suggestions. Are you going to be using lighter themes in the game?

>>51270449

Know what's more annoying than mage supremacy? Biased unbelievers who refuse to acknowledge it and preach false truths.

>>51270500
Honestly, this should write itself. Let the teen Mages try to solve typical teen problems with magic and watch it go terribly wrong.

>>51270578
It's possible to acknowledge something and not be a raging faggot about it

>>51270655
you're only stoking the flame

>>51270581
>Let the teen Mages try to solve typical teen problems with magic and watch it go terribly wrong.

Using Life to cure acne and suffering a Paradox?

>>51270706
>Dude how do I get Aphrodite to like me?
>I don't know Septimus she's pretty vapid.
>Not what I asked.
>Well do you know any Mind magic?
>Dude no

>>51270655

Mage supremacy doesn't have an off switch.

>>51270500
I would've gone with a summer camp for kids from magical (non-mage)families (second-sight sorcerers, proximi, etc) or those with some kind of supernatural ability (psychics and the like). Awakened kids would also be present, but would be rare and treated like geniuses. The place is run by mages but not everyone on staff would be one, maybe just the head camp counselor and 2 or 3 others.

I just like filling the lower and middle ranks of mage society with mini-splats and sleep-walkers to pad it out without having a million demigods running around.

As for danger, a lot of it could come from the other kids and your players finding ways to practice their magic and powers unsupervised.

The one thing great about mages besides their supremacy is definitely their modesty.

>>51270655
>>51270813
>Reasons Mages aren't invited to the blood orgies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmgOr5hdOj0

>>51270821
>sleepwalkers aren't constantly bullied slowly educating awaken to treat other like shit and get away with it

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>>51270500
>>51270581
It's lighter themes for now, but there's already been a couple of fun shennanigans that have gone on even though we've only had 2 sessions

>First day of camp
>don't have any of your shit because you had to flee from the bus because the driver was shooting rounds into the roof to get kids off
>Suddenly told by a Bruce Cambell/Coach McGurk that everyone will be doing a 3 way capture the flag game in what is basically the forbidden forest
>winning team doesn't have to do dish duty for the entire summer
>ohshit
>Players including a Thyrsus mage, a Moros mage and an Obrimos mage
>Thyrsus is total comic geek, Obrimos is a former(?) headcase and Moros is fuckall because player only got books an hour before first session
>players form team because none of the other campers will put up with their autistic bullshit
>Thyrsus gets idea to talk to the spirits of the forest to get directions to the flag and beat the others
>summon up some kodama
>make deal with one for directions, in return the mages will get them chocolate within 24 hours
>kodama leads them to a valley that's out of sync with time, appears to be fall instead of summer
>new challenger approaches
>See Egyptian Draco Malfoy is nearing the flag
>already on bad terms with players coz Moros player called him Sandy Balls (name was Sandoval)
> Realize they can't get down the cliff they're on in time to beat them
> Or can they
> Watchpeopledie.mov
> Moros mage makes a toboggan out of an old log
>Obrimos mage says fuck this bullshit
>Thyrsus mage decides to do it to impress sk8r grill he met earlier and was currently with them
>Due to minor prepping and dumb luck they survive but Sandyballs is nearing the hill
>ohhellno.gif
>Thyrsus mage uses roots to knock him rolling down the hill
>Sandyballs gets pissed, tries to go raildex on him (also Obrimos mage) and gets fucked up by paradox knocking himself on his ass.
>Moros mage proceeds to just punt him in his fucking face and it works
>mfw

>>51270821
the idea for running the summer camp setting was to introduce the players to not just Chronicles of Darkness, but Mage, acting as a sort of tutorial for them to learn the mechanics in a way that wasn't just me infodumping in session 0 and expecting them to remember it all.

>>51270838
Is the rabbit a metaphor for non-mage splats?

>>mage supremacy

What's the second-best mage Order and how would you feel about and would you treat:
>sleepers
>sleepwalkers
>proximi
>sorcerers and psychics

Mysterium best Order, obviously

>>51270897
For second I'd go with free council, because it still has some of the 90s charm of modernized magick such as online grimoires and stuff. Besides, they're probably the least pretentious of all the orders. Pedigree or not, they're probably the least stressful to deal with of all.

>>51270897
>What's the second-best mage Order
AA
>how would you feel about and would you treat
>sleepers
I wouldn't outright condescend to them but I would probably regard them with casual disdain
>sleepwalkers
I would just feel bad for them. To know that the world is full of magic and monsters and to be able to do fuck all to defend yourself would suck.
>proximi
I would feel not as bad for them but still bad.
>sorcerers and psychics
I have no opinion on knockoff mages.

>>51270892

Shut your whore mouth you mage supremacist whore

>>51270987

>laughingmages.jpg

When Aspel stoped popping up in these threads I thought we will have someting usefull going on but no. Mage Supremacy replaces everything

You all motherfuckers need Exarchs....Also is Jesus Fathers Ochemata

I want to thank everyone for reminding me of why I dislike mage. Now let's talk about something else.

>>51262351
Be prepared to change everything if your players chase red herrings for hours. Give the audience what they want - action, drama, politics, figure out what they desire and work it in. Relax, have fun.

I did ask this question before but got no answer. Can Demon use Infrastructure/Angel Jacking to turn Promethean human?

>>51263033
The Children of Gaia sourcebook is pretty clear on Jesus and Buddha both being CoG kinfolk, possibly even werewolves.

>tfw that was never covered in the school plays at St Carmel's School for Girls
>tfw Jesus could have just transformed into Crinos and shredded the fucking Romans, but didn't because He is too beautiful for this sinful Earth and he had to die for YOUR sins, yes YOU because he loves YOU, you filthy lying sinning bastard

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Help me rate an artifact, /tg/. How would a short sword from Stygia that mimics Devouring the Slain with all the Reaches included be rated? This is for 2e so that means it would work on ghosts, healthy people, and wouldn't count towards pattern scouring. I ask because it's normally a Disciple spell but with the reaches included I figured that would make it cost more.

I was thinking of having it look something like this, only slightly longer.

>>51263446
I don't know nothing bout no Call of Duty edition, but if your players get bogged down and have no idea how to proceed in an investigation game, allow "inspiration" rolls of Wits + Investigation for "eureka!" moments to nudge them in the right direction.

>>51263673
4chan?
You silly bitch, this meme dates back to Usenet and Mage 2nd edition for OWOD. It has survived all these years as a symbol for how stupid crossover is in the OWOD.

>>51271171
>>51271204

Mage supremacists only come out when idiots don't acknowledge their supremacy over the other splats.

Like when a changeling challenges mage dominance by getting angry over the fact that a Fate mage can make their contracts useless.

>>51271341

Mages tromping all over Changelings? Isn't that common sense?

>>51271282
I'm not saying old fags didn't do good work. but 4chan sank the knife into that particular delusional writer. kickstarter was mistake

>>51271341

Nice bait

>>51271627

>>51270500
the patriarchy

>>51271757

I shall direct you to the mage supremacy thread.

>>51271627 →

>>51271783

It looks more like the vampire inferiority thread.

>>51263572
Doesn't one of the Strength Gift Facets allow woofs to auto-defeat effects that restrains them or impedes their movement?

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You "Mage Supremacy" pricks are boring as fuck. I know you think you're really clever, but you're just a re-skinned version of X-Box fanboys, beating your chests and ranting about how awesome your system is and how everyone else sucks. Protip: no-one else cares, and this is why women don't like you. The rest of us are going to play whatever the fuck we like, and you can't stop us. Eat a forest of dicks.

>>51272063

Please send your complaints to your nearest mage supremacist thread.

>>51271627

>>51267001
But Heroes aren't a threat. Not to a single Beast, and certainly not to an entire brood. And that's only *one* of the reasons they're terrible antagonists, in a terrible splat, by a developer whose work has taken a real nosedive after he stopped working on DtD.