/btg/ Battletech General!

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ANOTHER THREAD USING ANOTHER SHIT PICTURE? ARE YOU GUYS FOR REAL?

COMMENCING ART DUMP SO YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE EXCUSES NEXT TIME

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>>51207262

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>>51207292

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>>51207308

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(Repost of Tikonov-centric heavy)

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>>51207380

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>>51207408

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>>51207426

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>>51207262

>>51207397
repost of my answer
>>51207444

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>>51207447

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>>51207461

>Check this guy, he needs 2 AC-20s to make his point

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>>51207473

>>51207509
oh Heck Horses

you cray cray

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>>51207512

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>>51207532

>>51207509
What is the lightest (not useful or good) dual AC20 mech out there? Any flavor AC is fair game.

>>51207549

ARE there any dual-AC20 mechs other than the king crab?

>>51207564
>>51207549
Hunchback IIC

>>51207548
>That Summoner
Stop dude, you're clearly drunk

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>>51207548

>>51207564
There's that one solaris medium with dual AC/20s

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>>51207620

>>51207564
The lyran Emperor has a pair of LBX-20s, and there's a Nightstar with one ultra-20 and one LBX

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>>51207642

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>>51207724

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>>51207739

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>>51207758

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>>51207779

What is the best introtech Assault and why is it the King Crab?

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>>51207825

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>>51207882

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>>51207908

>>51207262
>COMMENCING ART DUMP SO YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE EXCUSES NEXT TIME

We know, we just don't care. At this point it's better to make OPs with shit-art just to piss you off.

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>>51207957

I always enjoy the art dumps. I can't complain.

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>>51207262
Been playing BT since pre-Clan invasion (on the cusp of Battledroids).

Shakes head at your new-school stylings.
Misses the point with a G1 TF. ^_^

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>>51207963
k

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>>51208000

>>51207878
>not the Banshee
Shaaaaame!

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>>51208039

>>51207549

The Bombard is almost certainly the lightest semi-viable dual AC/20 design. And at 850 total BV2, it's something you can actually spam, as long as you don't need to move especially fast.

One of the meaner things I've seen done was a person taking 10 of them (at a 3/4 rating) as the defender in a 12k BV2 cityfight matchup with a "seize the governor's palace intact" objective. He deployed them in pairs via hidden unit rules inside heavy buildings just outside the objective area.

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>>51208058

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>>51208081

>>51207397
The guns themselves remind me of an Orion sorta, but you've put them in the wrong places.

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>>51208106

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>>51208181

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>>51208065
I made the mistake of saying in a solaris match
"keep it under x bv and a medium"
One of our players brought a 1/1 pilot Bombard.

shit was dumb

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>>51208202

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>>51208232
>>51207878
my nigga

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>>51208282

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>>51208313

You guys hear about how MW:O is moving the setting forward? What mech you hoping for? me personally fafnir.

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>>51208349

Why are infantry so expensive C-bill wise? Is megamek calculating it incorrectly?

>>51207397
The problem is that Tikonov really doesn't have any particular design identity that I've been able to find, so "Tikonov-centric" doesn't really mean anything. Beyond that, it's a decent introtech heavy, but I might cut a ton of AC ammo.

>>51208399
>Why are infantry so expensive C-bill wise?
Because CGL slapped a bunch of arbitrary and nonsensical price modifiers on them in the newest rules set

>>51208368
I would bet money on a Sunder

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>>51208396

>>51208434

Well, the general idea is early Cappella "AC-20s wherever possible". Otherwise it's just trying to put one on the most useful platform.

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>>51208470

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>>51208490
>>51208368
I expect lots of MW3 and MW4 mechs now
cant' wait for Argus <3

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>>51208607

>>51208483
Yeah. It's just something I put a bit of effort into researching a while back and there's so little info you have a blank slate.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52320.0 is where I started, and my later research pretty much confirmed there ain't real info.

>>51208065
NEA, got a question to axe you. How would you organize the 3067 Free Worlds Navy?

In my group's campaign the fleets are centered around one carrier, two eagle frigates, two zecs, an Agamemon or impavido, and one of the Star League ships (black lion, aegis, essex, etc). So like seven warships in a battle group.
But one member has suggested all the Marik ships be organized as is but with the half dozen SL ships forming their own "independent action" squadron.
Thoughts?

How much access would the IS have to clan mechs (through salvage, diamond sharks, etc) in the various time periods?

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>>51208628

Is it known how Arc Royal fell or the damage the Falcons sustained in taking that world?

Also, has Coventry fallen?

>>51208462
But why tho? I can understand that price being for quartering, paying, and training them them for a year, but that's not what it seems to represent in game

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>>51208717

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>>51209036
>>51208875
no
we don't know

>>51209099

That updated Falconer looks nice.

>>51208995
>But why tho?
Because fuck you, that's why.
There is really no logical reason

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>>51208664

Are there <any> other changes from canon?

If the answer is "no", then I'd actually release the SL ships to be independent raiding elements. They'd be nominally organized into a squadron, but they'd steam alone. They're almost all powerful enough individually that they can overwhelm most any individual WarShip a canon 3067 House can deploy in defense (except the Tharkad). Oh, do pair up the Essexes - those shouldn't steam around by themselves.

The only reason not to do this is that I can't remember how many of the SL-era ship have LF batteries installed. Raiding sans LF batteries can be dangerous. But then again, most of the SL-era ships the FWLN has can flatten most other House WarShips even if they can't do an emergency jump back out of hostile space.

If the answer is any flavor of "yes" relating to "other Houses have a WarShip fleet that isn't actually complete shit", then I'd keep the SL ships embedded with the Thera Task Groups. The reason is that your Theras are your most important asset, and they need to be well-protected. Relying on the Aggie/Eagle/Zec combination of escorts to protect your Theras against non-canon beefed-up OPFOR lines of battle is questionable at best. When the OPFOR is limited to a DuShi or a a "squadron" composed of a couple of Foxes escorting an Avalon, the Aggie/Eagle/Zec escort makes sense. If the other Houses have heavier and/or more numerous fleets (capable of actually being deployed in divisions or squadrons), I'd want the SL-era NAC-boats available in close support of my Thera's screening forces. And that means keeping them with the Task Group.

>pic only related insofar as I'm talking about naval stuff while I wait for my USS Constitution and HMS Java minis for the /hwg/ painting project to get here

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>>51209099

>>51207262
Threads don't have to start out like it's some freaking museum art gallery. As long as it's clear this is the beginning of a BT thread, why crap all over yourself over it? Are you trying to impress your GF or something?

>>51208699

Not a lot to start, more later. Early on the FedCom has more than the Dracs but then Bulldog happens.

>>51208995

As he said there is no sensible answer.

>>51207908
oh neat, I haven't seen that one before

>>51209148
PURPLE BURD STROOOOONK

We all know the FWL should rule the Inner Sphere, thanks to their sensible naval policies, efficient ground forces, and quality of life.

>>51209148
I appreciate the response.

The answer is "yes", so I'll keep your answer in mind. There are some minor adjustments to warships, for the FWL side the biggest is uparmoring the Agamemon and Eagle classes (including SI).

As an aside, there's an interest in expanding the navies of some of the other successor states. Are there any (fan made, I'd guess) warship designs you'd recommend? I'm wagering you've made some yourself.

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>>51209573
>tfw you're the Chancellor watching Saiph invite FWLM troops to land because they're tired of your insane oppressive bullshit

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>>51209174
you ain't the boss of me

>>51209602
>uparmoring the Agamemon and Eagle classes (including SI).
NOICE

Thera groups are gonna be one hell of a force to reckon with.

FWL WILL GROW LARGER

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>>51209731

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>>51209742

>>51209602

You could unfuck the Kaga-Class Carrier and give the Suns/Lyrans the Durandel.

I'm fine with the Yamato being stuck in feature creep hell and the Capellans getting nothing else given the shit state of their shipbuilding infrastructure.

Maybe have the other Houses recondition some old SLN hulls too. Nothing outrageous, Black Lions at best.

>>51209632
Was it Saiph that had pro-Free Worlds guerillas during the Chaos March era?

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>>51209778

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>>51209858

Ive always wondered why the Crusader Clans never sent their own covert forces to confirm the Dragoobs information with.

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>>51209872

>>51209881
Because the bad guys are dumb and the good guys have everything go according to plan.

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>>51209923

>>51209881

The Crusaders were lead by the Falcons and Jaguars.

The Jaguars were retards who believed intelligence was irrelevant and ALL RESISTANCE WOULD BE CRUSHED BY THEIR MIGHT. The Falcons were traditionalists who believed that everything in the Sphere would work the way they did at home.

The only Crusader Clan that would have even been inclined to send agents were the Adders but that would risk discovery from the Sphere and a political showdown with the much more powerful Falcons and Jaguars.

Most of the Crusaders didn't really want to know what the Dragoons had reported. A lot of stuff in the Invasion happens because the Clans deliberately ignored the Dragoons' intel and wouldn't listen to ComStar.

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>>51210010

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>>51210038

>>51209839
They set up their own little nation during the Chaos March era, encompassing Saiph, Tall Trees, and New Canton. Would have made a neat little package for the FWL to offer membership as a voting bloc.

Realistically, there was nothing to stop the FWL absorbing most of the Chaos March. Even their Blakist buddies hadn't really gotten going by that point.

Or, optionally, minor powers and independent worlds signing up with the FWL proactively. It must be pretty appealing, if you're a world near them. Especially if you just saw the Cappies snap up your neighbors.

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>>51210057

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>>51210082

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>>51210102

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>>51210158

>>51210060
I could see why Hall did it. Dumbass AMC shouldn't have gotten involved.

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>>51210175

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>>51210205

I feel like the reason that the King Crab isn't all that common in the fluff is the specialization of most of its variants. The -000 and -0000 are both assault mechs, which makes them already rare on a 4SW battlefield, but extremely specialized assault mechs. The King Crab is the Ivan Drago of assault mechs, which goes up to the rest of the vehicles in the class and tells them "I must break you." That specialization comes at the cost of endurance. So you end up with a difficult-to-field unit which is designed to kill a rare target on the battlefield with extremely limited endurance. No wonder it's an uncommon sight on the battlefield/

>>51210205
My introduction to BattleTech was Twilight of the Clans and Star Lord, so seeing the Gold Knights gassed on a cover was sad. I think the only edgier cover would be the one where Wolf's Dragoons are being nuked.

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>>51210248

>>51210205
I can't ID that mech, any help?

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>>51210285
say no more

personally I don't have any problems with the KotS being killed, but they were indeed an interesting unit

>>51210326
Grand Titan.

When does Tech Level 2 like DHS, XL engines, and ERPPCs stuff start trickling down to mercenaries? Did the Clan Invasion kill mercenaries as a business with the geometric increase in cost from XL engines and the destruction of a large portion of introtech forces?

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>>51210326
it's a Grand Titan

>>51210356
To me it was more the way units like they and the Dragoons were killed.

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>>51210356

>>51210376
>When does Tech Level 2 like DHS, XL engines, and ERPPCs stuff start trickling down to mercenaries?
By 55-ish it was reasonably common, but it didn't become ubiquitous until the mid-60s

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>>51210430

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>>51210464

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>>51210489

>>51210278

I think there is also the fact it's said to consume a lot of ordnance.

They mention enemy pilots took advantage of that by whacking the thing the second it's barrages stopped falling.

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>>51210525

>>51210278

It has a lot more to do with the Unseen situation, anon.

Originally the 'Mechs in TR: 2750 had all gone with Kerensky, were mothballed by ComStar, or had died in the earliest days of the Succession Wars. The Dracs getting their hands on them inthe War of 3039 was originally a major plot point because the Suns and Lyrans didn't know how to deal with them and were concerned it meant they'd built more regiments than they could handle.

Then the Unseen court case happened and rather than just doing new art they were pulled from the TRs and RATs, meaning something else had to fill the void.

So the TR 2750 'Mechs were retconned as being around to greater or lesser extents but all the factories were gone.

Later they did another pass of retcons and put factories for some in place.

>>51210376

You can get a feel for it in the FMs. Generally I would say mercs would have to wait around five years or so to start getting stuff, at least until 3051 or so and the arms deals.

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>>51210544

>>51210571

>the Suns and Lyrans didn't know how to deal with them and were concerned it meant they'd built more regiments than they could handle.

Like you would any other mech?

I'm not seeing how they'd stop the combined Suns-Lyrans Juggernaut given they'd have a superiority in mech numbers.

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>>51210578

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>>51210696

>>51210326
Grand Titan

Signature mech for the KotIS, alongside the Albatross

To this day, and despite reading the books, I don't really understand:

1. Why the Blakists gassed them in the first place
2. Why the Knights didn't have filters installed - just seems really stupid. only conceivable explanation I can think of is that all their techs were secret Blakists, but that's possibly even more dumb.
3. Why did the local PD try to stop them from leaving the parade? The 8th FWLM I *kinda* get, but still.

>>51210619

>Like you would any other mech?

Logically yes. But this is like a current-day naval vessel being confronted by a wooden sailed ship with black powder guns, except that the wooden ship can keep pace with, soak damage like, and dish damage like a modern vessel. The blast from the past factor was supposed to be significant.

>I'm not seeing how they'd stop the combined Suns-Lyrans Juggernaut given they'd have a superiority in mech numbers.

They couldn't, but the original fluff from the 20-Year Update indicated a pretty even fight between the Dracs and the FedCom, with the Dracs pulling enough shit to make the FedCom wary and then quitting while they were ahead.

The loss of the Unseen and the SLDF 'Mechs being more common damages that a bit. Not that it really matters now because we have H: Wo3039 and it's basically the FedCom stomping the Dracs until they get bored and stop fighting because the established canon said they did.

>>51210543
That's what I was talking about. It can take down one or two other assaults before it goes Winchester, and then it's left with a large laser.

>>51210571
I'm aware of the Unseen situation. I'm just speculating beyond that.

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>>51210716

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>>51210778

>>51210744

>I'm aware of the Unseen situation. I'm just speculating beyond that.

Ah, fair enough.

I can see the King Crab being held in reserve for when someone needs to break or hold a strong point rather than being committed to general battle, cutting down on how many are seen in fights too.

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>>51210797

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>>51210826

>>51210730

>Why the Knights didn't have filters installed - just seems really stupid. only conceivable explanation I can think of is that all their techs were secret Blakists, but that's possibly even more dumb.

I don't think it worked against anyone in a mech.

I thought most of the mechs were taken out some other way.


Though in general the Jihad surprised me.

I thought most field infantry armor was made with NBC situations in mind, but I guess not.

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>>51210861

>>51210619
Having to think any more than he was contributed to Hanse getting bored of whooping House Kurita's ass. That, and the Lyrans shitting the bed.

>>51210696
Wow, that's frigging excellent. Who did that?

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>>51210889
got tired of uploading images
finishing with a picture I just found in the internet
dear CGL and Marco Mazzoni, it was really easy to obtain the full image using the cropped thumb link

http://media.dunkedcdn.com/assets/prod/13377/580x0-9_cropped_1476698731_p1av0532ie1lj1pur1inh1b7i1k373.jpg


enjoy the BattleMech Manual cover, boys

>>51210887
Well they specifically mention, iirc, the techs leaving them out. I don't know why they wouldn't be in there normally and the techs would instead have to take them out specifically for the parade...

>>51210887
>>51210952

That's the weird part. Even modern infantry have NBC precautions in place, parade or not.

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>>51210929
don't be fooled by the filename, it was indeed user000[...]001 who did that

>>51210730
1 - It's important to remember the Jihad was not perpetrated by a united WoB. The Precentor on that front probably served on Gibson when Paul Masters intervened in the goffel war in the mid-3050s and had a hate boner for the Knights.
2 - WoB Magic. Pretty much it. Same reason half the shit on Atreus unfolded as it did and entire regiments of Marik mech forces disappeared.
3 - See above.

>>51210970
Remember the most important rule of the jihad: never let 'facts' or 'logic' or 'making sense' get in the way of grimdurr

>>51210970

>Even modern infantry have NBC precautions in place

What's even odder is that they were still loosing forces to the BC in NBC during Stone's Coalition assault on the Blakist Protectorate.

Also, I would have thought the Sphere would have had NBC equipment on hand given the first two Succession Wars and the fact people had shown they're perfectly willing to break it out if things are desperate enough.

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I always liked the cover to Combat Operations. It shows how really massive some of the big battles are, what a real heavy battle would be like, the chaos of it.

>>51211029
>>51211032
Had to give the robes a chance somehow.

>>51210730
>The 8th FWLM I *kinda* get, but still.
Honestly, when I stop and think about it even that one I don't get. In my opinion the Word should either have gotten the big secret army it got, or subverted augmentee forces. Both was a bit much. Sirian Lancers make sense as a provincial forces from worlds of the former Terran Hegemony. Federal FWLM forces don't.

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>>51211164
we tried to name all mechs in this picture once, IITC we were successful

>>51211032
Because while the Ares Conventions may have been largely undone by the First SW, some provisions were still considered sacrosanct. The use of NBC was one of those. This was mostly due to the indiscriminate destruction of them, which means they might also affect facilities that handle production and repair; stuff that, until the discovery of the Helm Memory Core, would be irreplaceable.

>>51211164
Are you kidding? Everyone's packed way too close together. Ever heard of the Empty Battlefield?

>>51210949
shimmyseens are the best thing that happened to 3025

>>51210949
I like the subtle callback to the old MW1e cover, but I am vastly opposed to shimmy's decision to make the rifleman's arm barrels different lengths

>>51207210
If a mech uses a handheld weapon can another mech pick up and use the weapon?

>>51211385

I believe quite a few of those, even the ones on Protomechs, are attached to the arm in some kind of way unless it's a melee weapon.

>>51211411
Really? So the handheld thing is just an aesthetic feature? Is a second hand even needed to help carry the weapon?

>>51211385

It it's an actual Hand-Held weapon like from TacOps, yes.

But a lot of weapons that look like 'Mechs are carrying them are built in and can't be dropped.

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>>51211385
yes and no. There are specific handheld weapons that every mech can use, but these weapons have its own stats. HH weapons such as OP pic or Battlemaster and Atlas III does not work the same way, they are built in the mech

>>51211429
Unless it's explicitly listed as a Hand Held weapon from Tacops, it's purely aesthetic. Hand Held weapons, again, from Tacops, are not considered part of the 'mech's equipment and are carried in the same way a tree as a club is.

>>51211455
>>51211486
Don't forget that one quirk that hasn't been used much yet that lets you drop a particular weapon that's otherwise hard mounted.

>playing AtB
>enter match with flashman
>illegal unit removed from roster
wait what the fuck? how is a standard flashman illegal?

>>51211635

because fuck you, that's why

In all seriousness, AtB gets fucking weird with "illegal units" and shit. Make sure you turn on the RPG options and that you have "allow illegal units" permanently enabled if you want shit to work right.

>>51211676
I assume that's the "allow invalid units" option in the megamek options menu, right?

>>51211757

Yeah, that one.

>>51211538
Yes, but it is still effectively hardmounted in terms of using it, so even the mech that dropped it can't just pick it up and start using it again, it has to be reinstalled.

Would Protomechs have made much of a difference if Smoke Jaguaar had rolled them out in the immediate years before the Coventry campaign that saw the Star League resurrected?

>>51211970

No.

>>51211364
>muh different lengths abloo bloo bloo

Consider sudoku if you care this much about slightly different lengths on a mech stolen from a low-budget 70's weeb kids show

>>51211538
I honestly have no idea what this is intended to be used for other than maybe shields. AFAIK you get no benefit from dropping the weapon.

>>51211970

Probably not.

They had pissed the IS and other Clans off too much. Only the Ice Hellions were dumb enough to support the Jaguars' plays.

It might have made the IS' effort to kill them off a bit more difficult but not enough to stop it.

>>51212090
What if it was one of those capacitor laden exlody when crit weapons and you were out of ammo?

Liability Mitigation

>>51212120
But AFAIK by RAW you don't drop the capacitor, just the weapon...?

>>51212090
But of course you can't use it on shields because that would be useful, unless that's been errata'd.

The only use I see is that reinstalling only takes up the same time as an ammo reload, so you can replace a damaged one quickly. They dropped the ball though in that there should have been some cross over with the modular weapon quirk just for the particular weapon, since fluff has long mentioned a semi modular nature to such mounts.

>>51212168
Gauss rifles, charged capacitors are why they explodes, and are integral to the weapon.

>>51211970
Depends on the numbers and if a writer favored them.

>>51212168
The 'capacitor laden' phrasing was a nod to fluff notes justifying why the weapon was explody and not actual rules commentary.

>>51210029
Calling the Jaguars retards is saying too much. They were written like cartoon villains so incompetent that their survival to even participate in the invasion makes no sense. They'd have made better villains, not to mention the story would have made more sense, if they were written with s degree of cunning tempered by extreme violence that gave them their rep.

>>51211635
They introducted tech intro dates in MM awhile back, but it means the unit verifier screws up when some of the components have an earlier intro date than the mech does.

>>51212178
Since when did the quirk say it couldn't be applied to a shield?

>>51212120

If you're playing at a rules level where you can drop the items you're probably at a rules level where you can just power them down and retain them as crit sinks.

>>51212068
Shimmyseen are the best seen.
Truly Battletech's "Coke Classic" to the "New Coke" that was the Reseen.

That is to say, they are great, and made better by the shittyness of the reseen, but they aren't exactly the originals, and spergs gonna spergs.

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Post your favorite thicc mech

>>51212416

i lost all my pics of ur mum

>>51212495
I see you 'Went Robot'.

>>51212416

God I really hope we get the stone rhino in MW:O.

>>51212773

It'll be a blockier version of the Reseen one from Project Phoenix though.

Have fun with that.

Is the Stuka the best introtech aerospace fighter?

>>51213053

Best for that speed bracket definitely. Makes a very strong case for itself overall too but a faster ASF like a Transgressor or Hellcat might be able to get behind it and blow it away.

Definitely top-tier though.

>>51211635
Maybe it's a way to remind the user that flashbulbs represent everything wrong with a certain subset of Battletech player.

>>51212090
Fluff quirk for all the early mechs with pistols and rifles or whatever, mainly. Stuff like the Battlemaster, Griffin, Vixen, and Phoenix Hawk.

When it comes to artillery, are mech Artillery Lances and vehicle Artillery Lances, how far away are they usually deployed from the battle behind the other mech and tank forces?

Also, are Archers more common than LRM carriers? I read a lot were built.

>>51213135
What are the best intro aerospace fighters then?

>>51213053
If you're playing with bomb rules in effect, it's very powerful. It's one of the heaviest fighters there is, so it can carry a full 20T of bombs and keep going. It's geared more towards direct fire, so if after bomb runs you're still needed to service targets, it can readily do that (though some later versions do it better).

>>51213271
I'd say the Capellans or Free Worlders have the best sets. The Capellan ones are pretty solid and practical, befitting a state-run arms industry, and the FW ones are equally solid in their own roles plus Regulans have access to Corsairs. Works for me.

>>51213268
>Also, are Archers more common than LRM carriers? I read a lot were built.
The archer is extremely common *for a mech*, but the LRM carrier is a very common vehicle, and vehicles vastly outnumber mechs

>>51213268
Far enough that they're still within effective range, but not so far that they're at risk for counter-battery fire, usually.

Most artillery (at least of the heavier kind) is vehicle-based, not many 'mechs have Thumper, Sniper, or larger systems mounted.

>>51213271

Transgressor, Hellcat, and Stingray are all pretty tough with decent firepower and heat dissipation. I try to avoid lighter fighters because they lack armour, range, or both though.

If you're looking for the state with the best fighters overall then as >>51213634 notes the FWL is probably the place to go before the FedCom merger. The Stingray is just so good and the Reiver's not bad either.

>>51213790
Vees tend to be more common in local defensive forces. The kilo-for-kilo advantage of battlemechs, and the lower number of people needed to fight them, makes them more common for any force that is going to operate interstellar.

That said, yeah, LRM tracks are very common, more so then Archers that require specialized spare parts, mechwarriors and fusion reactors.

LRM tracks and fire support 'mechs are kept about a kilometer back from the front line. Heavy guns like the Long Tom are kept a dozen kilometers back or more.

>>51213148
The flashman has explody AMS ammo though.

So, NARC vs TAG? Which is the better system with LRMs

>>51214544

TAG if you can get Semi-Guided ammo.

NARC otherwise, especially if you're running a bunch of intro tech where you can get a bigger bonus more easily by giving them NARC ammo than you can by going in for more extensive and expensive upgrades.

>>51214544
Depends upon the era. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

NARC is obviously not reusable and requires a supply of pods, so failed shots are costly. But they can be used to spot for indirect LRM fire (a tagged unit counts as having a spotter if you're firing NARC-capable ammunition indirectly). But the number of units that mount them is fairly small, smaller than TAG I'd wager. NARC also only work with LRMs or other missile types that are compatible with NARC -- so not with Arrow IVs or tube artillery, for example.

TAG, like NARC, only works with specific ammo. So if you're not using Semi-Guided, you're wasting your time. But on the upside, it also works with guided artillery, so Arrow IV Homing, Copperhead, etc. rounds benefit. Also, if you use it and miss, it's just a miss, no lost ammo. TAG again. It's more common amongst units, too.

>>51214544
On the whole, I'd say TAG is better than NARC. There is one big benefit to NARC, though - once you hit the target, you don't need to keep hitting them.

Are there aircraft bombs that can home in on TAG?

>>51215782

Air-launched Arrow IVs can.

>>51215568
I was playing around with that using Narc-equipped Scimitars. Basically, they went on drivebys, tagging mechs with pods. The indirect fire was nasty, and the +2 on the cluster chart really helped my SRM-armed units. Being able to pound some targets turn after turn, direct or indirect, with LRMs was quite nice.

I'll have to play around with TAG some more; I haven't played with Arrow IVs much, but it seems like they really benefit from it.

>>51216607
>>51215568
Conversely, a major downside is that ECM stops Narc, but TAG and SG works just fine.

>>51214544
Narc's major limitations IMO are that you only get 6 shots per ton of ammo, and that the range of the narc launcher is rather limited.

>>51213266
Except it seems that the Shimseen versions are removing the handhelds in favor of being properly arm mounted.

>>51214024
>LRM tracks and fire support 'mechs are kept about a kilometer back from the front line.
Yeah, that doesn't work. Max effective range on a LRM is 630 meters.

>>51216664

Shit like that never makes any sense to me given that Artemis is negated by ECM despite also being a fly-by-wire system guided by tracking emissions.

But hey, BT logic.

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Painted half my mechs black and half olive drab. Thinking about what other colors to use.

Any news on the boxed set?

>>51216875
They're allowed to be wrong, like I'm allowed to be right.

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>>51212416

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>>51212416
Thick, but not too thick.

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Why aren't handheld weapons more of a thing in the Inner Sphere, anyway?

I mean, I realize the Clans need to be the super-special unbeatable prototype thing to present an I WIN button but it still seems too obvious for Inner Sphere not to take an advantage of.

The mechs can pick up entire trees, cars, or even other mech leftover parts so they can definitely carry some weight in addition to their tonnage.

Make a gun, have them operate it. Its a great force multiplier, it is simple to make since they're shitting out mechs using those faster than anything else, if you run out of ammo or get it broken either by you or the enemy, you can just pick up another, even from a fallen buddy.

You can also give certain lances some heavier weapons to set up bigger caliber guns outside of the fortifications of your own base, not necessarily mech-operated ones, of course. Depending on how much personnel you have and how good your factories are to make something like that more sophisticated.

>>51217730

>Why aren't handheld weapons more of a thing in the Inner Sphere, anyway?

Anything worth carrying as a hand-held will slow you down too much to be worth it on the offensive, and on the defensive you have artillery emplacements.

They're a neat toy to mess around with but the downsides of speed reduction and not being able to fire weapons in other arcs hamer their effectiveness too much.

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>>51217765
>not being able to fire weapons in other arcs hamer their effectiveness too much.

Why wouldn't you?
The hand holding the gun can fire everything attacked to it, the torso doesn't give a shit and neither does the other arm.

What are the rules for slowing down, anyway?

>>51217814

>The hand holding the gun can fire everything attacked to it, the torso doesn't give a shit and neither does the other arm.

Per the rules on p. 316 of TacOps, carrying one blocks your arms and torso.

>What are the rules for slowing down, anyway?

Cargo carrying rules on p. 261 of Total Warfare. 'Mechs can only lift 10% of their mass, 20% if they have TSM. So 100-tonners can only handle 10 tons of hand-held weapons, 20 if they're equipped with TSM.

Carrying up to a quarter of your tonnage reduces cruising MP by 3 or half, whichever is less.

So an Atlas with TSM and a Gauss Rifle hand-held blocks all its other arm and torso locations, requires both Hand Actuators to be functional, and if it has the 3/5 movement typical of the series becomes a 1/2 mover.

Not a great deal.

Anything other than lighter, faster 'Mechs carrying an accordion of RL-10s to play you the song of their people is of very questionable usefulness.

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>>51217925
That's kind of back to the Clans needing to be better argument, is it not?
There's no real in-universe or logical explanation of why you'd suddenly lock down your arms like that when carrying a gun, is there?
I'm, of course, talking about one-handed weapons like the ones IS actually uses en-masse.

When does the speed reduction kick in again?
Griffins carry around PPCs and aren't exactly molasses, either.

>>51217814
>The hand holding the gun can fire everything attacked to it, the torso doesn't give a shit and neither does the other arm.
Nope. Mechs need both hand to use a handheld.

>What are the rules for slowing down, anyway?
I belive they're referring to how mechs can carry stuff in their hands up to 10% (20% with active TSM) of their weight but lose 1 MP when doing so. However, TW errata removed that MP penalty some time ago, but the weight restriction remains.

And the handhelds have to contain not only the weapon(s), but the ammo, or single heat sinks for energy weapons, and some armor if you don't want even a minor hit to destroy them. So a 100 ton mech toting ten or even twenty tons of gun that restricts any weapon not in the legs or head, is just going to be under armed.

Handhelds have a niche and it mainly lies in disposable things, like give a Hunchback a handheld LRM so it can fire at shit at long ranges, then chuck it once it gets close enough to bring its own guns to bear, or maybe load up something like a Spider with a pack of RL-10s to give it nasty opening shot after which it goes back to jsut the two MLs.

>>51218020

>That's kind of back to the Clans needing to be better argument, is it not?

No, it's back to 'Mechs always having been shit at carrying things. As long as there have been rules for handling cargo it's been a 10% limit, and hand-held weapons are carried as cargo.

>There's no real in-universe or logical explanation of why you'd suddenly lock down your arms like that when carrying a gun, is there?

Do what you like in you home games, man. I'm just quoting the rules.

>I'm, of course, talking about one-handed weapons like the ones IS actually uses en-masse.

That's not what you're talking about.

Things that are built into the 'Mech like the Griffin, Phoenix Hawk, or Battlemaster's guns are an intrinsic part of them and don't use cargo rules.

Hand-held weapons are something else entirely and are what you seem to want to be able to spam to nullify some supposed Clan advantage that in fact doesn't exist to begin with.

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>>51218049
>Nope. Mechs need both hand to use a handheld.

But Griffin does not. It also has a PPC which is 7 tons, thus way over the limit you're describing.
What's up with that?

>>51218080

The PPC on a Griffin is not a hand-held weapon.

It is depicted as a droppable rifle but is part of the 'Mech.

Hand-held weapons are something else.

>>51218100
>It is depicted as a droppable rifle but is part of the 'Mech.

I'm pretty sure there's quite a few pics in the older stuff where it drops the PPC, though.

I suppose retcons are retcons. Still, it sucks they've basically made everything old retroactively terrible.
Like, you'd have to be an idiot to add hand actuators to a mech when it's magically gimped like that.

>>51218158
Basically, they wrote the rules badly in the first place, and had to make everything after that a cock-up to explain why people didn't do the sensible thing.

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>>51218158

Holy shit, you fucking moron.

The Griffin has a special perk that lets it drop the weapon.

The weapon is part of the 'Mech when it is constructed, see pic.

Hand-held weapons are something else entirely, again see pic.

>>51218158
>I'm pretty sure there's quite a few pics in the older stuff where it drops the PPC, though.
And that gets back to the jettison capable weapon quirk that was discussed earlier.
It can drop it, but there's generally little reason to do so. It's just a bit easier to replace, and fluff has mentioned easier to modify mechs using such weapons compared to torso guns and such, but that's all, and still not as easy as swapping pods on an omnimech.

>>51218158
>>51218214

The rules are fine. You just don't understand them.

>>51218237
You may want to update that image with the rules from the errata. They completely rewrote handhelds like five times as loopholes were discovered in them. Also, include the Jettison Capable Weapon quirk, which applies to the classic Griphon's PPC, the Hatchetman's axe and others (like RAC2 on the Atlas III).

>>51218366

Meh. The basic point has been made, and I don't have a copy of TO with errata.

>>51218273
His point, dear fellow, is that the rules were written such that a weapon that *looks* as though it can be picked up, dropped, thrown, etc, was originally designed to be an integral part of the 'Mech. Then, when people wanted to carry weapons that were not mounted in such a way, the rules for handhelds had to be kludged together in such a way that those old designs are still workable and prevent people from doing it much.

>>51218447

No, his point in >>51217730 is that 'Mechs should be able to carry more guns because the Clans have an insurmountable advantage since reasons.

The stuff he talks about in that post? Literally all hand-held weapons. Then he went off on a tangent and raged because he believes, for whatever god-forsaken reason, that weapons that are hard-mounted on 'Mechs but look like rifles are now subject to the Hand-held Weapon rules.

I'm talking about >>51218214, I should have made that clearer.

Which, as far as I can tell, is true. They didn't think about mechs like the Panther, Wolverine, Pixie, etc. and then when people said "Hey, I have hands, I wanna pick stuff up" they had to make up rules to deal with the existing designs.

In other words, the question is, "Why was this 'hard-mounted' in the first place"

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>>51217730
>>51217814
>>51218020
>>51218080
>>51218158
On further analysis, this one is feigning ignorance to troll us. Being knowledgeable of old unseen art, but not understanding that the art and rules notably didn't match back then (because the artists didn't know the rules) is some highly selective density.

>>51218556
"Congratulations, your Phoenix Hawk has hands. It attaches the Large Laser on a slot on its hip and picks the cargo container up." NEXT!

>>51218556

Mechs with hands have always been able to pick stuff up. Regardless of whether they're depicted as holding a rifle in that hand or not, the only thing that's ever mattered is whether they had a hand actuator there.

I'm really not seeing what the issue is here.

>>51218569
>Being knowledgeable of old unseen art, but not understanding that the art and rules notably didn't match back then (because the artists didn't know the rules) is some highly selective density.

That's stupid as hell, you know the art came before the rules

>>51218601
The question is, if they're shown holding it, why does it count as hard mounted?

And the answer is because the people designing the game in the first place couldn't be fucked to make it work right, and now we have these arguments.

>>51218614
*autistic screeching intensifies*
C'mon Muninn, it's an 80s game for guys who wanted to have giant robots shoot and punch at each other. It's only when viewers like us pitched in did the "EVERYTHING MUST HAVE RULES" kick started.

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>>51218569
>but not understanding that the art and rules notably didn't match back then

I know they don't match because the rules were bare-bones at the time for maximum game versus preparation.
But those things are still hand-held in the art, the books and the overall lore so even if the TT did not exactly facilitate any rules for it, I was asking for reasons as to why the in-universe people never used such tactics considering they're pretty reasonable and exactly what those mechs were designed to do.

Just because you can build an abomination that shreds everything to pieces with a billion MGs in Mechwarrior does not make it a viable tactic in the BTech universe.

I got an answer about rules that did kind of address the issue but they were rather hand-woven and patchy at best.
You can't RP a Com Star guy telling some cadet this or that works and does not work because some heavenly superperson said so.

>>51218644
>I was asking for reasons as to why the in-universe people never used such tactics considering they're pretty reasonable and exactly what those mechs were designed to do.
Pretty much any time the Battlemaster appeared some schlub would be blindsided by the fact that it could drop the PPC and punch their fucking face in. In fact, that happens in the novel Day of Heroes when Alex Carlyle thinks he's got a Beemer on the ropes with his Archer.

>>51218631
DESU I dislike "we need rules for pilots farting during a low-gee fight in a blizzard" and all the other frankly exhausting rules, and I wish that they had just said "Hey, to have your PPC work, it needs to be connected to the mech such that you can't pick it up and drop it willy nilly"

What I really wish they had done was not make hatches and shit arm-mounted, but instead let you carry them. because it has never made sense to me that you can pick up a tree or another mech's leg, but have to hard mount your sword. And if your can pick up a mech leg or lamp post and not slow down, then why can't you do the same with a pack of RL10s...

basically, the whole thing is an inconsistent clusterfuck.

>>51218605
Well, yes, but it wasn't Battletech art then. Maybe I should reiterate.
>The artists didn't know the game rules or why just copying obscure anime designs for which they thought they had paid for was a bad idea.

Very early Battletech made so many mistakes that it wouldn't make $100 on Indiegogo today. Thankfully, the market was so favorable in the 80s that they were allowed to grow into what eventually became a good game with a great setting.

>>51218614

>The question is, if they're shown holding it, why does it count as hard mounted?

Seriously? Are you him? Is this some sort of elaborate performance art?

>>51218644

>But those things are still hand-held in the art, the books and the overall lore so even if the TT did not exactly facilitate any rules for it, I was asking for reasons as to why the in-universe people never used such tactics considering they're pretty reasonable and exactly what those mechs were designed to do.

If you pull the PPC from a Griffin you can mount 7 tons of other shit. Just like literally any other 'Mech with a PPC. Knock yourself out with the construction and/or customisation rules.

As for why hand-held weapons linke in TacOps don't work well? 'Mechs are not designed to be cargo haulers. They can do it but it doesn't work well. Also since the weapon isn't linked to the 'Mechs own targeting system but instead has to be aimed with iron sights it's more of a pain in the ass to get the shots right, plus they're bulky and block weapons ports.

If you want to get into why they block weapons ports I will counter with Battle Armour doing the same thing, and since you're already going REEEE about Clan tech I doubt you want their Omnis to perform better while lugging them around either.

>>51218679
You are one stupid fuck. This has nothing to do with artists, BT or jap, and everything to do with the people writing the rules.

>>51218689
You're deliberately missing the point so hard I'm convinced that you are the one bait posting.

>>51218689
>what is a rhetorical question

>>51218676
It's BattleTech, I ain't gotta explain shit. nor can I. A real live overhaul of the material wouldn't hurt, assuming we could keep the crunchy feel while paring down the cruft. And y'know, redoing Aerospace to be fun. I'm not sure if it could be done and keep the fanbase, since by this point we all expect to be able to use the same stats and rules from 1990.

>>51218727
I think it would really have to be a new game.

There are days where I think keeping the fanbase would be a bad thing. These days are generally the same ones I check the OF...

>>51218705

>Anon A: why aren't 'Mech rifles a thing
>Other Anons:they are, they're in TacOps
>Anon A: well that arbitrarily fucks existing 'Mechs with rifles because I'm convinced that anything depicted with a rifle uses hand-held weapon rules now
>Other Anons: they don't, they're two separate things
>Anon A: i refuse to believe that, because muh art, muh old rules, muh old fluff
>Other Anons: there are quirks that cover that stuff, again, hand-held-weapons are completely different
>Anon A, Munnin: well you're the ones baitposting

???

>>51218644
As someone who has to spend an inordinate amount of the work day explaining to managers why thermodynamics do not work the way they think they should, I really know that Com Star guy's feel...

...Damn, it's too early in the morning to drink.

>>51218741
>1: hey, why do these mechs not have hand held guns since they are holding them in the hand
>2: because they are hardmounted
>1: why are they hardmounted when they are held in the hand
>2: because they're hardmounted
>1: but if mechs in fiction can carry external guns, and mechs on the table can carry external guns, why don't they have external guns?
>2: because they're hardmounted

It's like asking a question for an AU and having people go "WELL THE STAR LEAGUE HAD FIVE BILLION WARSHIPS SO THAT WOULD NEVER WORK" and refusing to accept that in an AU, the Star league maybe isn't stupidly superior

>>51218775
>and refusing to accept that in an AU, the Star league maybe isn't stupidly superior
I don't understand. Are they just the Terran Hegemony or something? Do they at least bend the Periphery over the table and take them to pound town?

>>51218787
It's a totally rhetorical scenario, I don't think the anon was putting that much thought into it.

>>51218805
But (insert faction here) is still the best in that AU, right? You wouldn't lie to me anon, would you?

>>51218775

>and refusing to accept that in an AU, the Star league maybe isn't stupidly superior

Then maybe the person posing the question can fucking say "also in this AU the SLN isn't stupid huge."

Jesus. I'm done with this shit. A question was asked, it was answered, if they don't like it they can do whatever they like in their home games.

>>51218775
It's not that hard to fluff out. "Handheld" guns like a Griffin's PPC and a Phoenx Hawk's LL are hooked into the 'mechs primary coolant loop, reactor power leads, targeting computer and carefully balanced and locked to the 'mech so they can avoid the problems with 'mech sized handheld weapons.

'Mechs in general being able to pick up and use different guns with hand actuators is an interesting idea, but it's not very battletech. More Heavy Gear or so. Because BT has a rule for everything there's a rule for picking up and using guns. Because it's discouraged, that rule sucks and hates you.

>>51210278
> The King Crab is the Ivan Drago of assault mechs, which goes up to the rest of the vehicles in the class and tells them "I must break you."

I hate you so much for this comparison, I spilled my coffee

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>>51218818
Sure they are, I would never lie.
I especially never lie about my proclivity for dishonesty.
So you know you can trust me.

>>51218854
Got to love how it's retarded simple too, being the 'mech equivlant of what would happen if you welded two Hunchbacks together.

>>51218833
>Then maybe the person posing the question can fucking say "also in this AU the SLN isn't stupid huge."

That was exactly his point - it was stated, but spergs keep sperging on about it. I know exactly the argument he's referring to from a few months ago too, and it was just mind-boggling watching the extent to which people simply could not cope with the idea that the SLDF was not fuckhuge.

or, in a thread Muninn linked, he asked about hypothetical Tikoniv-original mechs, and a bunch of people on the OF answered with things like "well they would probably use archers..." even after he said "No, they're making NEW MECHS" like half a dozen times.

>>51218915
I like the King Crabb, but it is a really poor general usage Assault mech.

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>>51218852
Mechs can still be made to take advantage of even the current hateful handheld weapon rules.

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>>51218949
We love our autism. We have the best autism, don't we folks?

>>51218949

>I know exactly the argument he's referring to from a few months ago too, and it was just mind-boggling watching the extent to which people simply could not cope with the idea that the SLDF was not fuckhuge.

I know the argument too, and it began with "well the SLN wasn't even that big in canon" followed by anons digging up the fleet numbers on vessels that had production numbers stated to show otherwise. It wasn't until the very end that they said "well what if the SLN isn't actually that big then?" and then the response was "well things would happen differently."

And would it have been that hard to circumvent the problem in the first place by stating that directly? No.

But why try for clarity when you can prolong an argument?

>>51219047
Then you're thinking about a DIFFERENT SLDF-based argument, because the one I'm talking about had it clearly stated from the beginning

Clearly, the answer is to remove the SLDF from history

>>51219058
>Clearly, the answer is to remove the SLDF from history
With TIME TRAVEL that the TAURIANS get from ALIEN INVADERS.

>>51218676
>And if your can pick up a mech leg or lamp post and not slow down, then why can't you do the same with a pack of RL10s...
But again, they at least fixed that part. Now if only they'd fix the fucking mess of hauling trailers.

>>51216685
The range of TAG is also fairly limited, too. It also has to be fired on the turn that the rounds hit. NARC can be fired well in advance.

As always, there's no clear answer as to which is better. Like many things in BT, the answer is "it depends".

What do you guys think of snub-nose PPCs?

>>51220314
They're great on brawler/short-ranged units. A way to get heavy punch without a ton of heat.

>>51219115
Now I want Alexander Kerensky: TIME COP.

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>>51220732
Kerensky is perfect for "I'm getting too old for this shit.", but who would be the Riggs to his Murtaugh?

>>51220783
Who's that one Cameron with the amazing mullet?

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>go to get coffee before game
>damn Capellan fanboys have gotten to it now

I don't want a Liao-te, damn it

>>51221348

>grand rapids

Where is this at? I might try it out for the novelty next time I'm in town.

>>51221374
Oh I wasn't in GR, it's brought in from there. I'm in the Cereal City.

>>51220783

Ben Kingsley, is that you?

>>51207210
>BattleTech video-game pre-alpha gameplay

Ha, pre-alpha is just a bullshit term people like to use when attempting to advertise their own content. "Oh look jimmy, it's only pre-alpha but it looks so good. I bet I'll look 100x times better when finished."

Look jimmy, see that video, game won't even look that good.

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Gentlemen, how do we fix the Cheetah?

Thinking for the mid-50s, mid-60s, Jihad,, and post-Jihad. What can tech do for it?

Of the MWO mechs on warhansa which are the classic unseens?

>>51222242

>What can tech do for it?

XL Engine to save 6 tons. Armour replaced with Ferro-Aluminium and increased to 5.5 tons. 1 more ton of fuel. Weapons changed to 5 MLs, 2 in the Nose, 1 per Win, 1 Aft. DHS.

Fin.

>>51222482

Locust, Shadow Hawk, Phoenix Hawk, Wolverine, Battlemaster, Rifleman, Warhammer, Archer, Griffin, Marauder, Marauder IIC, Jenner IIC, Thunderbolt, and Archer. I don't remember what the rusrus names for them are though.

>>51222541
Thanks M8. I need 4 mechs for to have an even 6 companies. I want unseens since they are harder to come by and I'm thinking Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Marauder, and Thunderbolt.

>>51207878
That's a funny way to say Hellstar.

>>51222745
introtech....

Honestly I'll lean to it's grandpa the awesome though.
KCs are kinda explody for me.

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>>51222766
>it's grandpa the awesome though

Awesomes are love, Awesomes are life. In fact, after a fight I just had in Against the Bot, I feel a bit of Awesome-related writefaggotry coming on.

>>51222766
I'm a stravag for not catching that. In that case either the Awesome or the noble Banshee 3S.

>tfw nobody plays BT where I live

At least there's Megamek

>>51222921
Where you at son?

>>51222921
That's like 90% of the population here.

>>51222921
I have 2 groups here in Lansing, but they have some deep flaws.

>>51222242

XXL engine to save 9 tons. Swap the armor for Ferro-Aluminum and bump it up to something like 7.5 tons. Double heat sinks. Remove all weapons and install a Clan ERPPC in the nose.

Been thinking of some kind of Battle Armor carriage based off the Protomech magnetic clamp in order for heavy and maybe assault suits to be Battlemech carried. Thoughts?

>>51222993

I keep getting emails about them, and was considering making the trip up one of these days. What's the issue with the Lansing groups?

>>51223054
Wouldn't the magnetic clamps of the Fa Shih do that?

>>51222993
One group is a bunch of introtech/3025 only grondgards but don't care about what minis we use, and hate alpha strike. The other is run by CFL demo agents and they alternate between BT and AS but ban unofficial minis in their games.

>>51223089

I was thinking something mech mounted, on the arms rather than the magnetic clamps on suits but I suppose it'd just as be easy to put magnetic clamps on heavy suits and call it a day.

>>51223397
>I was thinking something mech mounted, on the arms
So hand actuators.

Hey gents,
When you all are designing a brawler mech what considerations do you give to weapons placement? I used to like placing all weapons in the torso/head to free up the arms for punches. I've been at a disadvantage a few times when I lose out on the extra firing arc arm mounted weapons would have given and I've noticed that I am kicking a lot more often than punching.

Do you all place weapons in a way to free up physical attacks; Do you spread them out to reduce the chances of having your firepower crippled easily; Do you place them solely on aesthetic reasons?

>>51223421

With hands you could I suppose pick up two armors as "Cargo" but no, I'm meaning more of rigging setup. Trying to make a heavy/assault BA carrier out of a mech.

>>51207210
Did I hear a bitch shit-talking Macross?

>>51223472
Kicks are better than punches. Unless you can go internal on the head or take it off there is no reason to punch over kick. Your arms are much better suited to house weapon systems so that you have a much more flexible firing arc. Rear mounted weapons are terrible and should never be used. I like to put one of the primary weapon systems in one arm and then a close ranged weapon system/payload in the other. The torso is for things that need to be CASEd, along with one primary and most of the secondary weapon systems.

For example if my primary weapons were an lb 10x and an er ppc and then I had like 6 meds and a 4 pack i'd have the right torso house the AC, the left the 4 pack and three meds. Then the right arm would have the PPC and the left three meds.

I would also consider putting both big guns in my arms to give me the most options in firing arcs with them. But mostly remember you brawl with your legs and shoot with your arms, unless you're making a TSM Mech that is designed to go fast and punch off heads.

>>51223572
Macross has paper-thin armor. You sneeze and ten destroids or valkyries blow up. Although it had some great art that FASA used for some of the first mechs.

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>>51223618
>that FASA used
You mean stole?

And yeah, entirely different mindset on the mechs. Battletech are tank mechs, Macross are explicitly jets, with all the fragility that implies.

>>51223672
>You mean stole?
There were licensing issues. Licensing issues!
That's my ignorant story and I am sticking to it.

>>51223599
>Kicks are better than punches
How the fuck is a bipedal tank going to stay upright when you kick, especially looking at the top heavy design of most of these things?

>>51223701
>How the fuck is a bipedal tank going to stay upright when you kick, especially looking at the top heavy design of most of these things?
I thought that's what the interface through the neural helmet allowed for balancing issues. Although yeah, some mechs just don't seem right.

>>51223701

How the fuck is your fat ass going to stay upright when you kick, especially looking at the top heavy flab on you?

>>51223701
FASA physics. Though they do represent that by the fact that if you miss a kick you have to make a PSR. But mostly the magical power of FASA physics.

New thread for later...
>>51223747

>>51223701

Pretty easily, that's what the neurohelmet and gyro are for.

The only reason there's a PSR on a miss is to force people to think about double punching, especially if they have TSM.

>>51223722
I peg my dick into your mom from across the room and it keeps me up

>>51223721
>>51223725
>>51223754

Frankly, while punching and kicking are pretty cool for art or last ditch moments, barring some SURPRISE, URBAN COMBAT! moments I can't see much need. These things are tanks on legs, loaded down with weapons to provide mobile fire superiority.

>>51223768
>Frankly, while punching and kicking are pretty cool for art or last ditch moments, barring some SURPRISE, URBAN COMBAT! moments I can't see much need. These things are tanks on legs, loaded down with weapons to provide mobile fire superiority.
I cannot tell you how many times I changed the course of a battle by getting behind some douche and busting one of their leg actuators through a good kick. Punching, not anywhere as much, but a swift kick to someone's leg works well for me.

>>51223795
Shit nigga thats not a kick thats a SWEEP and totally different

One of the fucking bendy leg mechs like the timber wolf could do that

I thought you meant like full on boot to the head kung fu shit

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>>51223768

Get out.

>>51223795
This. And it's a free 20% weight damage for only the cost of a piloting roll. 40% with TSM. That's big gun levels of damage with the larger machines.

And I can't say how many times I've kicked tanks in the side for free crits or turned some douche's head into a football from a level up with a good kick.

Last ditch nothing. Free damage is free damage. It gets absurdly effective when you bully lighter machines with the bigger ones too.

>>51223701
It's not a karate kick. It's like fouling a guy in soccer by smashing his shin.

>>51223892
thanks, I didn't get that until
>>51223795
>>51223860
That makes much more sense. of course you'd kick a bitch in the shins or knock a tank over

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>>51223860

Particularly in introtech, some mechs are flat out better as melee brawlers than they would be just trying to shoot shit. SHD-2H and DRG-1C come to mind, to say nothing of the silliness that is the CGR-1A1

>>51223938
The Charger is basically a blank check to salvage anything 55 tons or under that it manages to catch in clobbering range in 3025. It's worth its weight in gold in campaign play as a merc.

>>51223701
>How the fuck is a bipedal tank going to stay upright when you kick

Battlemechs are not bipedal tanks, faggot.
Mechwarrior - retarded bipedal tanks.
Battletech - "anime" mechs which can actually, you know, move like a fucking bipedal walker should. They kick the same way you do.