/btg/ Battletech General!

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More RIflemen!

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Is age of consent determined by production year?

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>>51224081
I remember some Jap game where it was a strategy game where you had production lolis with mecha forms. Damn I wish I could remember what it was called. There was an english patch for it as well. Oh well.
Which mechs would be a loli in BT?
Pic related.

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>>51224081
>>51224112

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Do anybody make their own BT cursors and icons for use on your rig?

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>>51224112

What are some good Guardian carriers that aren't primarily Capellan?

>>51224112
How would a mech be loli? Size?

>>51224353

Degeneracy.

>>51224353
I think the /a/ and /m/ crowd called it mecha musume or some such. Basically imagine a loli with armor and weapons covering parts of their body, but enough exposed that you could see they were girls.

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In case handheld-anons are still unsatisfied with previous answers, >>51224606 is a more researched and complete one.

Everyone else can ignore and carry on.

>>51224718
Is that a Cicada with a coffee addiction? I love it.

>>51224718
Another point to just weight -- strapping more weapons on is not an easy task. They need power, coolant lines, ammo feeds, vents, ejection ports, bracing, actuators, and a whole mess of parts. Not to mention reprogramming the battle computer to actually control and target the new weapon.

That's the benefit of Omnis over regular BattleMechs. They're modular so it's just load the pod, load in the preconfigured software, and you're rolling off the line in minutes rather than hours-to-days.

>>51224824
Seconded, I am not a fan of the cicada but I love me some coffee and often sip on some with a dash (read a lot) of bourbon when I play some megamek.

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Any interesting dioramas like this of BTech?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpcvNw4nA0E

>>51224306

What are you trying to do? Cover your long-range buddies? Grab a Fafnir. Cover a rapid advance? Get a Hitman.

>>51224992

Just say your pilots are drunk and call it method acting.

How does torso twist work? Can it twist 360 degrees?

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>>51223747
We Are Livin! Livin in the Eighties! Eighties!
We Still Fightin! Fightin in the Eighties! Eighties!

>>51225625

No, only one hex left or right.

Usually, any way. There are Quirks and Tripods are able to Spin2Win.

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>>51225711
FUCK TRIPODS

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>>51225805
>SSW will never handle tripods and quadvees

it hurts ;_;

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found this on Plog's page
does it come from /btg/TRO? looks good

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>>51226166
>looks good

Please tell me I'm just blind to obvious sarcasm.

>>51226232
no, you are just a cunt that can't handle opinions :)

>>51226285 (You)
Why did they ever make NARC such garbage in the first place? If you could treat NARC-hit targets as if they were TAG'd for regular LRM IDF and artillery, then it would be halfway useful, but as it is, it just works with one and only one flavor of missile ammo and does exactly fuck all else.

Not to say it can't be made kind of useful in very specific circumstances, but it's such a pointless use of tonnage otherwise that practically no canon units carry it.

We may never know. Presumably they simply didn't playtest it and thought the rules looked good after an eyeball pass.

>>51226336
There's differing opinions and then there's liking scat.
Whoever considers that in any way "good" is clearly leaning towards the latter category.

It is objectively bad from a design standpoint.

It would also eat the dirt faster than the walking dildo that is Stalker, can't turn at all, neither can its arms.

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>>51226578
Don't Bully Stalker! It was made for maximum penetration of the enemy position! It's supposed to be like that!

>>51226166
Yes, it's one of our Assault 'mechs.

>>51226232
It's supposed to look like an ugly clunker, so you're just confirming he did a good job :^ )

>>51226685
Has it got exposed actuators or something? It's got myomer visible in the arms. Also, I'd it some kind of primitive?

>>51226725
Shit, and the legs too, and ankle lasers. What the fuck is this thing?

>>51226725
>>51226745
Yes, it has Exposed Actuators as a quirk. For the rest, just wait and see.

>>51223747
>BattleTech video-game pre-alpha gameplay

It'll be shit.

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>>51223472
>Hey gents,
>When you all are designing a brawler mech what considerations do you give to weapons placement? I used to like placing all weapons in the torso/head to free up the arms for punches. I've been at a disadvantage a few times when I lose out on the extra firing arc arm mounted weapons would have given and I've noticed that I am kicking a lot more often than punching.
>Do you all place weapons in a way to free up physical attacks; Do you spread them out to reduce the chances of having your firepower crippled easily; Do you place them solely on aesthetic reasons?

Here's my brawler.

>>51225537
ECCM at brawling range

>>51226915
Holy shit that's the most dark age design I've seen in a long time

What would you recommend for fluffy and/or good diamond shark/sea fox mechs?

>>51226915
>command console
>magshots
>supercharger+masc
Nigga, what the FUCK are you doing?

>>51227128
>>http://ironwindmetals.com/index.php/release-schedule-2016

8 new IWM SKUs in the first half of 2017.
AT LEAST half of which 90% of the playerbase gives zero fucks about.

Meanwhile, we're barreling towards two years since the newseen were teased, which no news on when those are coming.

But thank god we're finally getting the highly anticipated Uraeus, right?

Just realized I'm still running MegaMek 40.1, any big changes between 40.1 and 42?

>>51226558
You *can*. NARC'd units are treated as having a spotter for indirect LRM fire. But not for artillery, at least none of the official homing ones.

But the rest of your statement of "only one flavor" etc. is true of TAG -- that only works with semi-guided.

Also, infantry can run NARC as well. Both in the tabletop rules and in RPG rules. A NARC beacon is just a class D or E ordnance, so if you play with both, pretty much any kind of launcher that can handle that can launch NARC beacons.

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>>51226109
I thought that mech was called Biggus Dickus.

>>51227931
>I thought that mech was called Biggus Dickus.
Confusing that with either the Penetrator pr the littlus dickus the Locust.

>>51227615

Not to be that guy, but the Master Unit List.

>>51227750
I was quoting another post but fucked up the greentext

>>51227685
Significant. Go read the changlog. Also, use the dev versions, it is usually a really long time between stable versions.

>>51222515
For the Cheetah, you'd say that works for all mentioned eras?

>>51223012
I like everything but the Clan tech. Outside of a one-off force, which I admit you might be thinking, it won't work for general Marik use.

Does anyone actually play by "declare all weapon attacks with all mechs, then resolve" way? I get why you are supposed to do that, but it seems really tedious and confusing. Whenever we play we just declare a weapon then roll to see if it hits

>>51228691

We try to. It helps to declare, calculate to-hits(and write #s next to weapons), then roll. That way while the first person is calculating, the second is doing the same in advance. Makes the actual firing go faster.

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does anyone have pics of the bakeneko sculpt?
i know the thing practically unheard of, but i like the design and was really happy when they produced a mini for it.

>>51229029
Never heard of this mech before, it's pretty darn badass.

>>51228904
Oh, thats a good idea, actually. Might try that next game

>>51229029
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51698.msg1270527#msg1270527

Is Combat Manual:Davion ever going to be released? I've been looking foward to it, and I'm not even a davion player, the combat manuals are just so high quality and fun to read.

>>51229115

It's in the Wars of the Republic Era book.

A Clan Nova Cat design produced in tandem with the Combine.

>>51229029
>bakeneko
What an original sounding name.

How effective is Artillery against the Clans?

I never really read of it being much of an impediment for them during the Invasion, despite it being abundant in the Sphere.

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>>51226109
>TFW Solaris Skunkwerks hasn't been updated in over two years.
>TFW two years ago feels like an entirely different era in history.
It's as if the real world has had a storyline jump and we're using a whole different set of sourcebooks.

>>51229243
Generally speaking artillery puts the Clans into a raging shitfit and isn't terribly suited to fighting their generally very mobile warfare tactics. Keeping them under zellbringen intil just the right moment was the favored tactic of the IS weather it was particularly smart or not.
Remember Zell was primarily added to the story to explain why there would ever be a balanced fight between the IS and the Clans at all, and the original storyline was written before Artillery was even in the rules.

I want to love Battletech. It should be everything I love.
I can't manage it. It's everything I hate.

What do you like about Battletech?

>>51227619
Winning initiative, sprinting like a madman, point blanking 8 magshots w/ targeting computer then hatchet that muthafuka.

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>>51229567

i like giant robits

>>51229243
>How effective is Artillery against the Clans?
extremely.
>I never really read of it being much of an impediment for them during the Invasion, despite it being abundant in the Sphere.
as was the case for everything that would cause the clans actual trouble during the invasion
>>51229529
>and the original storyline was written before Artillery was even in the rules.
that is not at all true. arty predates the clans by 4-ish years

>>51229529

>and the original storyline was written before Artillery was even in the rules.

Uhhh. Long Tom is in TR 3025 and the Catapult from 3050 has Arrow.

But hey. Something something broken Clan bullshit something something 3025 is better and makes more sense or whatever, amirite?

>>51229567
What do you hate?

>>51229657
>>51229567
We dig giant robots.

>>51229529
>>51229670

I thought Artillery was present from the start in things like the Archer?

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>>51229567
>What do you like about Battletech?

Replacing the wrist saw with a fusion arc torch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUxDmKFCD2o

>>51229696
>Catapult from 3050 has Arrow.
Arrow IV was in TRO 2750 before that.

>>51229715
Indirect fire from LRMs isn't the same as actual artillery. And I don't think IDF was actually there at the very start either.

>>51226166
Wait a sec... is that thing packing ankle mounted guns? We're taking machine gun knees to a whole new level!

>>51229904
http://builtforwar.blog [NOT SPAM] spot.com.au/2016/11/art-preview-ironclad.html

>>51229704
>>51229657
I, too, dig giant robots.

>>51229697
Literally every single scrap of fluff. Hex-based movement, and corresponding cost to facing changes. Per-turn initiative. Most of the shooting mechanics, though hit locations are nice. Clanners and especially their mechs.
I had a worse experience with ATOW than with the wargame itself, and I don't even want to launch into that.

I enjoy giant robots, I enjoy more realistic robots than Gundam or something, but I hate the feudal future bullshit and most of the mechanics grind my gears. It's unfortunate too, I've got a close friend who's been into it for going on 15 years now. She's tried to get me into the game a couple times and I just can't make it click.

I also don't like the original 80s aesthetic and think the MechWarrior games' versions of the designs are better. Except based Urbie.

>>51229217
What, you're confused by the Kurita built mech with the Japanese name?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakeneko

>>51229988
I mean, these are all things that irk me too. So i can't really blame you.

>>51229988
>Hex-based movement
Oh shit nigger what are you doing

hexes are master race for grid-based games

>>51229930
Beautiful. Now it needs a custom quirk so that it gets an automatic SPL hit with every successful kick.

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>>51230110
>for grid based games
That's the problem. I don't like grid-based. I'm a traditionalist with cm or inches.

>>51230134
You're pretty much specifically the market for Alpha Strike. Though AS also does away with hit locations, which you mentioned liking.

>>51230025
>Kurita/Nova Cat mech
>Japanese cat name
What an original sounding name.

>>51230025
>What, you're confused
You seem more confused tbqh

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So I recall ComStar made the "Clanbusters" of Tukayyid that were so-so.

What Inner Sphere mechs made up til the Jihad would you rate as a second generation of Clanbusting mechs? Mechs you want to have if you know you'll be fighting Clanners.

Feel free to skip dualgauss monsters since I'm guessing they're first picks.

>>51229988
>She's tried to get me into the game

Really, 'She' want's to play nerd games with you and you just can't hack it?

>>51229988

Have you tried the Alpha Strike rules? They aren't perfect, but I think it might solve some of your issues. (the initiative system is the same though)

>>51230134
There are Miniatures Rules to play free-form without the hex map if you're so inclined.

Alright, got a question.
One of the people I play with regularly nearly always brings a pair or trio of Phantom H mechs, the one with a bunch of heavy smalls.
What's a good mech to counter this?

>>51230232
To add, I mean because his sarcasm seems obvious while your confusion over it I don't understand.

>>51230276
>What Inner Sphere mechs made up til the Jihad would you rate as a second generation of Clanbusting mechs? Mechs you want to have if you know you'll be fighting Clanners.
the 3055 FedCom mechs and a bunch of their 3058 machines are pretty much that

>>51230276
Devas...
>Feel free to skip dualgauss monsters since I'm guessing they're first picks.
Aww. Wolfhound?

After a few years of playing BT, I recently began attending the church my group's GM does. Found out the big bad guy, Word of Blake Precentor we've been fighting and pursuing all this time, is named after the pastor. Funny thing the guy is nice, but I suppose I can see where the inner Blakist is trying to crawl out.

>>51230406
I suppose I mean specific ones you feel are best qualified. While those TROs are geared towards reactions to the Clans, some are real garbage rides.

>>51230291
Nope. We end up playing other games instead.

>>51230276

Wraith, Falconer, Dragon Fire, Warlord.

>>51230354

Something with large or medium pulse lasers. Try a Rifleman IIC.

>>51230450
the Penetrator is nasty as fuck, the Falconer is superb, the Dragon Fire is breddy gud, and of course the Gausswall rides are aces, the Wrath should be illegal and the nightsky is actually pretty decent ,

>>51230541
>Penetrator
I love that mech. I remember a MM game a few years back, 1v1 against another guy I met on the S7 forums. He brought a Timberwolf variant iirc and I brought a vanilla Penetrator. We matched BV, set map to random, and fought on a weird island/swamp/river map. Brutal as fuck, final turn I was holed in the torsos and arms, he was in the red in some places but still intact. I rolled the dice and got my first successful DFA, headcapped the clanner. I learned not to hate IS pulse lasers that day.

>>51229148
>those shouldertits
fuck now i regret asking

i keep hearing about how iwm is godawful when it comes to translating concepts into mini form, but i didn't want to believe it until now

I'm planning on running ATOW campaign in the future based around trainee Clan MechWarriors. Most of my experience with worldbuilding is based around Inner Sphere societies.

What books should I look over to get an idea for Clan society and what exactly Clanner MechWarrior training is like?

>>51230934
There's a Clanner book for 3e, isn't there?

>>51227685
>>51228412

MM anon here. How the hell do I get rid of the doofy shadows around my mechs and other units and get the crisp looking mech icons back?

>>51226915
I tend to put weapons with minimum ranges in the arms so i at least keep some arc utility. LPPCs are a favorite for this. Also LRM5s. Phoneposting so no example sadly.

>>51231431
Delete all the pictures under images/units/mechs and copy in the old gifs. Otherwise, they go straight for the .pngs they added the shadows to.

Looks like all of the BTMerch "campaigns" were cancelled. No surprise. The one closest to being fulfilled was the t-shirt, and it was barely over a thousand out of 2500.

According to the email I received:
Unfortunately, the Atlas Resin Statue that you’ve pre-ordered did not meet its Minimum Order Quantity (MOQ). As explained on the web site’s How it Works page, this means that we won’t be manufacturing those items. The order has been cancelled and your credit card has not been charged.
While we’re disappointed that the Atlas Resin Statue didn’t work out, reinforcements are on the way! We are currently working on more BattleTech Gear concepts for your consideration, many with lower MOQs! We hope to have them ready and posted on the BattleTech Gear website in the next week or two and we’ll reach out to let you know when they’re ready.
In the upcoming months we are exploring offering a slightly smaller version of the Atlas with a lower price and lower MOQ. We will email you when that product is available for pre-order and hope that you’ll consider it.
We appreciate your support in this new venture.
HBS

>>51232003
>HBS
That's what they get for their anti-white "progressive" race-oriented dumb characters favoring the tranny faction.

>>51232003
The banners weren't great looking, the t-shirt was something I've only seen hipster douchebags wear, and the Atlas was expensive right after Christmas.

>>51232041
They did not plan this out very well. They launched a campaign right near the end of the holiday season, when people would be short on funds, and ended it just after, after just a month. If they had launched it now and ended it mid-March, they'd get much more traction -- people are coming back into solvency, and in a month or two people will start getting tax returns.

>>51232095
Also, a lot of the merch was just kinda shit.

>>51229988
It sounds like you will never enjoy BT and that any effort to try would be wasted effort.

Thankfully, there are plenty of more pedestrian and less interesting mecha-based games for you to enjoy.

>>51232223

But that's not OK. Battletech should change to be what <I> want it to be.

>>51232369
>>51232223
Eh, that's fine. Wasn't sure if I was just missing something major that would... not "redeem" it, but I guess that's the closest word.

Thoughts on this gents,
Meant to be a raider and heavy recon unit with secondary head-hunting abilities for 3025 play. Ride the heat curve like a Canopian whore and latch on an enemies rear and don't let go.

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>>51232659
This should be a better file.

Am I correct in my understanding that battlemech designs are not predefined chassis? The 'canon' ones are just canon because they've been depicted?

I vaguely remember someone saying years ago that the most broken mech was something with like 8 legs and a fully rotating torso loaded with nothing but missiles. That's a legit capability, right?

>>51232897
>I vaguely remember someone saying years ago that the most broken mech was something with like 8 legs and a fully rotating torso loaded with nothing but missiles. That's a legit capability, right?
What the fuck? No. Nothing like that is even half fucking way possible under the rules

>>51232521
>Eh, that's fine. Wasn't sure if I was just missing something major that would... not "redeem" it, but I guess that's the closest word.

Validate liking it? I get what you mean, FWIW, it sounds like you gave it far more effort than most people give... anything. Tip o' the hat for that. BT is one of those things that not everyone likes.

>>51232912
pretty much this.

Sounds like someone was talking some shit they didn't understand.

>>51232897

>Am I correct in my understanding that battlemech designs are not predefined chassis?

Game rules allow for players to make their own machines from the ground up or customise existing ones.

The canon ones are what exists in-universe, not the limits of what's possible to achieve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsOG9w2iD80

Is this introduction worth the time? Will it take an hour to explain how to play or are these guys going to be longwinded and poorly explain?

>http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=44107.0
>New Classics are not eligible for Fan Finance

The hell?

>>51233774
They're already planning on sculpting them, I would imagine. And if they don't have all the redesigns finished, they don't want to come out and say they don't.

How does zel work in practice in a game?

>>51234264

One player initiates a duel, either by firing on their target or saying to the other "1v1 me, faggot."

Then they get into an honorabu battoru to see whose dick is the longest.

If someone thinks they're hot shit they can try to fight two or more enemies at once and that's OK.

Running away and hiding like a little bitch, combining fire on one enemy (one guy shooting at 2+ is fine as long as they start it and then everyone in that fight is covered by the rules, 2+ shooting at one is not OK), using melee attacks or generally trying to abuse the rules is considered bullshit. Artillery, mines, and ambushes are extra bullshit.

As soon as the bullshit quotient is reached, Clan players are allowed to retaliate as they see fit. How high the bullshit threshold is depends on the Clan, who they're fighting, and the era. The Wolves generally stick to Zell unless the other guy breaks it first. Falcons stick to it as long as it's advantageous and then blame the other side for breaking it even when they're the ones really responsible. Bears only observe it against other Clans they aren't currently buttmad at, and so on. Mostly the less two Clans hate each other the more they try to play by the rules.

BV is explicitly not to be used with Zell so keep that in mind.

>>51233855

It's been a long time, you'd think they'd have that shit ready by now. For that matter, I would have expected them to have gotten some sort of "yeah, we get to make these in metal too" agreement from Catalyst for the right to produce them.

>>51223747
Man, what the fuck is up with the perspective in this picture?

>>51229988
>I enjoy more realistic robots than Gundam or something,

You do realize Gundam is leagues ahead of Battletech in realism department, right?
Battletech is built around what's basically an extended universe of Dougram.
It's not trying to be realistic, it's trying to be a military fantasy of sorts.

At least the normal series do, of course G Gundam or Wing are just hot-blooded action and Naruto fan baits, respectively.

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Are melee weapons worthless?

Do I need to download all the pdf's in op to know what stuff does in the equipment loadout and quirks?

>>51230620
>I learned not to hate IS pulse lasers that day.

The SPL is damn nice for slaughtering infantry. The MPL is okay, assuming I had enough heat sinks I'd rather have two standard or ER mediums, but I wouldn't turn down a mech for using MPLs. The LPL is too damn heavy for what it does, a PPC or ERLL is always better.

>>51234830
>Are melee weapons worthless?
Hatchets aren't, especially with TSM, but everything else pretty much is

>>51234830
Swords, Hatchets, Maces and Vibroblades are good, piledrivers and other stuff like it is shit.

>>51234862
>>51234937
>piledrivers are shit
This isn't one of those games where half the equipment are meme weapons for fluff but no one would actually use is it?

>see the naginata on a giant robot shaped like a samurai

>>51234862
>Hatchets
Would rather kick at a -2

>>51234967
It's more like

"Your construction mech you foolishly decided to take into battle has a bunch of construction bullshit on it that needs stats."

>>51234826
>It's not trying to be realistic, it's trying to be a military fantasy of sorts.

It's basically a future history wargame.

>>51234993
Nothing is labeled *construction garbage* in the loadout and the pdf ocean I'm looking at doesn't have a readily apparent index.

There's 302 books in the rulebooks/sourcebooks and I don't know what's going to name and describe the available parts in SSW. Primer is entirely fluff. Quick start guide is for like 6 prebuilt things for the purpose of teaching the game.

>>51234967
It's more that those melee weapons were intended for morons being construction equipment to a fight, rather than being viable options for military gear
It's very much a future-historical wargame, and simulates lots of stuff that's objectively suboptimal but fluffy

>>51234967
Pretty much what >>51234993 said. This isn't the Big O, it's a military game.

>>51235067
Anon, you're trying to use a construction tool as a weapon and are strapping tracks to your mech's legs.

>>51235067
Oh Jesus brother, step back for a second, go to the PDF pile, grab the Battletech Master Rules (revised) book. It's marginally older than the TacOps series, but it's vastly simpler for new folks, and 99% of the core rules are the same. Read it and learn it before returning to the new stuff

>>51235129
>Battletech Master Rules
Thanks. I couldn't tell fluff from rulesbooks.

>>51234998
Basically, yeah. Like Warhammer 40k.

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I guess if bigO isn't allowed, this will do for babby's first Battlemech.

What are quirks and where can I "would you like to know more?" them?

>>51234830
Two Ultra AC/5s.
NO AMMO.
Wha?

>>51235782
Two AC/20s...
NO FREAKING AMMO!
Is this life?

>>51235782
Quirks are fluff based positive and negative attributes on a mech. They appear in several sources, but the largest list is in Strategic Operations. Also, your mech is missing armor on most locations, and has no ammo. You can at least fire your medium lasers until someone guts the mech like a fish.

>>51235782

You, uh... may want to look into having some armour on that.

If you're dead-set on having two A/C-20s on something with Intro tech, and I'd have to say that's not a great idea outside of Solaris duels, you need to look at 75 tons minimum.

You might be able to do it at a lower mass but that's about where it starts to be any kind of viable.

>>51235824
>>51235820
>>51235811
>>51235802
Relax, I'm just posting an image along with my floundering and slapping things into the editor.

>Strategic Operations
Thanks.

>>51235863
If you're going to tinker with mechs, your best option is to look at what canon designs do as a starting point.

>>51235863
But mah OCD!

>>51226166
Holy shit exposed myomers. Clunker confirmed.

>>51235198
>Like Warhammer 40k.

Nah, WH is the cape comic of board games. It has origin stories and previous products, but what passes for a "past" generally turns into fluff and stops being playable with every retcon+new iteration of army books, armies and rules.

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Why are 'Mechs so huge? What's a good explanation other than "the guys who made BT have no sense of scale"? How come a 60 ton Mad Dog is bigger than an Abrams of the same weight and a Dire Wolf is larger than the 188 ton Maus?

The best explanation I can think of right now is that, like Endo Steel, FF Armour and XL Engines, the 'Mechs themselves are subject to the "bigger/less compact = lighter" rule.

>>51235993
I mean, of course they're worlds apart in actual execution being that one is based on anime while the other is based on 2000AD comics and heavy metal.
But the general idea of making up fantastical armies, strategies, tactics, rules of engagement and such is there. Not trying to model futuristic warfare as it were, simply creating a new thing entirely.

>>51236449
Designs sources probably.

The combat armors of Dougram and Destroids of Macross tend to be in the ten meter realm, so BT likely just followed suit.

>>51236449
They used Dougram as a size base. They're still only about half as big as a bog standard Gundam and one third the size of the big Gundam MS like the Sazabi.

The TRO:3039 size chart is nonsense according to both rules and fluff and should be disregarded though. At this point, it's how most of TRO:3039 should be treated really.

>>51232035
This. That "half and half" stuff was a joke.

>>51236449
>>51236547
They took the scale from the cartoons but made up the 100 ton system to conveniently fit the construction rules at the cost of ridiculous numbers.


The real Gundam built in 1:1 scale in Tokyo is 25 tons at 18 meters tall... sure it's missing the insides and such but hey, the other 1:1 statue of Tetsujin (again 18 meters tall) made of nothing but steel weighs in at 50 tons.
A lot of the weight on a tank comes comes the fact it guzzles through fuel quickly so it needs a lot of it, the engine needs to be massive to make it move.
Both Gundam and Btech use fusion engines, so stuff that has higher output, smaller size and no fuel on board required.
One crewman vs four in a tank. Tracks are ridiculously heavy, et cetera. It generally comes down to armour and Abrams probably has more tons of armour on it than most battlemechs in existence.

In general, you're picking the fattest tanks around for comparisons. Abrams gained like 10 tons just by upgrades from the original M1 version and Maus was a well-known disaster.

>>51236866
Ridiculous numbers is just the name of the giant robot game.

The RX-78 is statted as having a max gross of 60 tons, and most Macross stuff ranges around 30 tons, with a few going up to around 40 tons and the Monster being the extreme outlier at nearly three hundred tons, and Combat Armors are typical somewhere in the 30 something ton range.

Fuck off if you want realism in BT. We got what we got so play the damn game or go play something else.

>>51236866
>One crewman vs four in a tank. Tracks are ridiculously heavy, et cetera. It generally comes down to armour and Abrams probably has more tons of armour on it than most battlemechs in existence.
>
>In general, you're picking the fattest tanks around for comparisons. Abrams gained like 10 tons just by upgrades from the original M1 version and Maus was a well-known disaster.

Because of BT I have always wondered how heavy is the M1's cannon and armor were. I wonder if some /k/ommando knows.

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I never finished this one. Maybe I should finish it today while I have the day off!

>>51238287
DO EEEEET
I love your art. It's very home-y, if that makes any sense.

>>51237867

The gun by itself weighs about as much as a BT Light Rifle Canon. No idea on the armour though.

>>51237867
>how heavy is the M1's cannon and armor
Cannon is about 4 tons. I suspect the exact numbers for the armor are still classified, but I'd ballpark it at around 15-20 tons minimum.

>>51237867
>>51238436

The 120mm Rheinmetall L/44 is about 3,000kg (~6,600lbs) all up, that is, including the gun tube, breech, recoil elements, and the other shit that's required to make it go bang. For comparison, the 100mm gun of the T-55 is about 2,300kg (5,000lbs) all up.

Incidentally, for 1t of ammo, you can get roughly 50 shots of 120mm DM53 sabot, although the Leo 2 doesn't actually pack that many.

>>51234826
>You do realize Gundam is leagues ahead of Battletech in realism department, right?
lol

>>51238458
>>51238746
The cannon is THAT LIGHT? Wow. Fascinating. I would have thought it would be more than that. The armor is like assault mech status for being considered primitive to our fiction. Thanks guys.

Two newb questions: does doing a torso twist cost MP/generate heat?

When rolling initiative is it the biggest number that wins? And when you win initiative you can pick if you go first or if your opponent does?

I'm on my way to a game and can't look at the books and want to not seem completely helpless when I get there.

>>51238813
>Two newb questions: does doing a torso twist cost MP/generate heat?

No on both counts.

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>>51238800
Well, both of those are hand loaded, so there is no mass required for the autoloader or ammo feed systems. The Leclerc's autoloader is about half a tonne empty (the basic loader mechanism, that is) and 1t when fully loaded (22 rounds of 120mm). Then again, the Leclerc and other autoloader tanks technically "semi-autocannons".

If you want true autocannons, you have to look at naval guns. For instance, the common 76mm Oto Melara is 8,500kg (18,700lbs) all up with 80 rounds of ammo and all the crap that is necessary to make it fire 80 rounds per minute.

Or if you want even bigger, the 120mm gun of the Finnish Navy's Turunmaa class corvette, which weighed about 28 tons all up (50 rounds) and also fired at about 80rpm. I'm told it was really impressive to see one of these open up.

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>>51234826
>You do realize Gundam is leagues ahead of Battletech in realism department, right?

>>51238747
>>51239133
Battletech has FTL, which is absolute bogus.
Weapons in Battletech make no sense, their ranges, their ammo feeds, their effectivness.
The vehicles are gimped just cause instead of providing a real reason that holds any value.
Most battlemechs don't even have a way to get inside or outside, Gundam has elements like this fleshed out to a T.

It matters none in the end, because of the eternal truth that we're here to live out fantasies of giant robots battling each other in fictional battles, not pioneering military tactics of the next milenium. >>51237307, kind of.

Hey guys, general question that I'd value your feedback on. Is there anything you think needs to appear in the Second Succession War rules annex? I'm looking for stuff that the 1st War annex didn't already cover, of course, but beyond that, it could be Alpha Strike, SBF, ISaW, or even TW stuff.

Bear in mind it has to fit in a relatively small rules annex. Other than that, I'd love to know what you think, especially if you thought it really should have been in the 1st War book but wasn't.

>>51238831
The quickstart guide says twisting the torso costs an MP.

>wrasslehogs under the rule of the dracs: "death the foreign oppressors! wrasslehog shall be free!"
>wrasslehogs under the rule of the bears: "we're okay with this! we support our new bear overlords!"

what changed?

>>51239437
Bears.

>>51239310
Xotl, where have you been, and why hasn't it been where you can feed my ego? Also, give me a bit to work on that.

>>51239437
Authors love the Bears. Rather, DA made it a fact in a poorly-thought-out broadstroke that had be justified over the ensuing fifteen years of realtime.

They were so much better under the Dracs. Them being both some of the best and most treacherous warriors of the Dragon made them a double-edged sword that's missing nowadays when you look at any other parallel like the Azami. Fuck, they were great in stuff like Heir to the Dragon.

>>51239419
turning costs MP, but a torso twist in the shooting phase doesn't

>>51239437
Another thing to consider: Dracs would've erased their cultural identity. In the Combine, it's assimilate or we will *make* you assimilate. The Bears at least let them retain some of their heritage and foundings, and gave them protection from the Combine.

>>51239104
Utterly fascinating. Now I wonder about the little ACs on old russian AA tanks like the ZSU 23-4 and that 32 version. Thanks.

>>51239419
I play MegaMek exclusively because no BT-bros nearby, and with all my MP spent it still lets me torso twist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_1M25ZOspM

>>51239227
>battletech has scifi in it so gundam is more realistic
still lol

>>51239563
When do you declare torso twist, in the movement or shooting phase?
And do you twist back in that turn or have to declare twisting back in the next turn?

>>51239827
Shooting phase. You don't explicitly have to declare it back in the next shooting phase but once it's declared it stays that way the whole shooting phase -- so it can affect the hit tables for your torso.

IIRC It's assumed the twisting is off at the end, since you can re-declare it at the start of the next shooting phase.

>>51239827
You declare your torso twist in the shooting phase, and then at the end phase, your torso goes back to your correct facing.

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>>51238813
>When rolling initiative is it the biggest number that wins? And when you win initiative you can pick if you go first or if your opponent does?

Roll 2d6 for each side. Roll off if there is a tie. The team with the highest total has the initiative for the remainder of the turn.

The team that has *lost* the intiative (i.e., rolled *lower*) has to move a unit (or group of units, if they outnumber their opponents) first. This allows the team with the higher initiative a small advantage by ensuring that they will have the last move in a given turn - similar to the way the home team gets the bottom of the 9th inning in baseball.

>>51239827
in the shooting phase, and it goes back to your original facing at the end of the shooting phase

>>51239630
>Dracs would've erased their cultural identity.
That's wrong though. They were a Drac district for centuries and retained their identity even while fully integrated in the state. Just look at the Azami for the exact same thing. You get shamed if you don't follow the way of the space weaboo, but it's not required.

Also, the Bears are all about assimilating just like every other clan. But also like every other clan, they're too fucking tiny to try to enforce it.

>>51239630

Uh, you do realise that one of the first things the Bears did was institute the Caste system right? The FRR parliament theoretically still exists but all they do is cheerlead for the Bears and tell them how awesome they are.

The Dracs actually let them retain more of their culture, and that was after centuries of work. But for the Bears? Fuck independance, fuck the FRR, it's Clan Ghost Bear time!

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>>51239852
>Shooting phase. You don't explicitly have to declare it back in the next shooting phase but once it's declared it stays that way the whole shooting phase -- so it can affect the hit tables for your torso.

For Battlemechs, hit location is determined by which way the feet are pointing (or head, if the mech is prone); you can't "torso twist" out of getting shot in a facing where your armour has been depleted.

>>51239968
Don't forget the part where the kicked out Comstar and fucking invited the Bears in just because their brainwashed ex-prince asked nicely despite Comstar propping them up for almost twenty years and saving them from annihilation while upgrading their industry at the same time.

>>51240056

The ComStar bit didn't bother me, that relationship started out rocky when Focht unilaterally occupied the FRR and made it a ComStar protectorate in all but name. They did co-operate on things but they were never super best buddies or anything.

>>51240092
Being a Comstar protectorate was literally the only viable option to not be conquered by everyone else and the only nominally neutral faction at the time. It's a much smaller price to pay than become clanners or getting snatched up by the Steiners. I could have lived with them going back to the Dracs though. That would have been cool.

>>51240294
>I could have lived with them going back to the Dracs though. That would have been cool.
I could totally see that happening, where the FRR strikes a deal with the Dracs to help them retake the worlds lost to the bears, in exchange for becoming a protectorate ("Semi-Autonomous District of Rasalhague" or something).

>>51239630
>Dracs would've erased their cultural identity.

>MULTICULTURE HAS WON
>THE SETTING
>people erasing cultural identities

Really, post Xi Sheng-Cappies and the Clanners were the only ones to do that.

Fuck off Anon here. Dougram vs Gundam argument is gay. Phantom mech ability, mystic premonitions coming true and genetic abominations being "superior" are all Gundam style tropes and found in Battletech. Its all anime inspired mixed in with western game design. Get over it, move on and play the game. Or fuck off.

>>51240294

I don't think the FRR had to worry about being conquered. The Dracs had their hands full trying to recover from the reaming they got at the hands of the Clans and the Alshain District's regiments were enough of a pain in their ass already. The FedCom had issues of its own and were way too white hat to go invading a small nation that was already on the ropes.

>>51240446

The FRR prior to the Bear takeover was adamant about their independence. It's the dumbest part of the whole thing, that they spent centuries fighting off a much friendlier occupier only to turn over and submit willingly to an invader who erased far more of their culture than the Dracs ever did.

>>51240786
>It's the dumbest part of the whole thing, that they spent centuries fighting off a much friendlier occupier only to turn over and submit willingly to an invader who erased far more of their culture than the Dracs ever did.
Shit like this is why we call it the Derp Age, because it makes no fucking sense and CGL was pigeonholed into it. Frankly, they did alright with what they had to work with.

>>51240786
It was within easy snatching distance for Robert Steiner if nobody else. It was only six worlds, but two of them had juicy factories. It would have been a prime target for Warlord Benjamin too. He was a big mover and shaker, always had an eye on conquest and expansion, and was not afraid to buck ol' Teddy. Remember, he took over the whole Combine for a few years while Hohiro was getting his brain scrubbed by the Robes. So you have two of the most independent provincial lords and in the case of the Combine, the second most powerful man in the DCMS.

One of the two would have snatched them up, especially as it was completely free territory. The Chaos March wouldn't exist for another six years and the Dracs would jump at any chance to recover historic territory prior to Bulldog.

>>51240979

Kiyomori Minamoto was commanding a Sword of Light regiment (5th? Teak Dragons, any way) at the time.

Robert Steiner was more fixated on reclaiming the Tamar Pact too.

At the time there was nobody who had both the means and the motive to make a play for the FRR. The biggest danger really was that someone would repudiate the Truce and attack early.

If the FRR had imploded within a year or two of gaining independence I can see the Dracs and Lyrans racing to gobble it up, but from 3050 on everyone else had too much on their plate already.

Does anyone play Mekwars? Is it worth getting into?

>>51240918

CGL was wrong for trying to work with it at all. Better to have no game at all than one which compromised its soul. Never compromise the things that truly matter, not even in the face of Armageddon.

>>51241292
Ok Rorschach. Stop playing then and go back to beating up rapists at night in a mask.

>>51239227
>The vehicles are gimped just cause instead of providing a real reason that holds any value.

And Gundam has this? You truly are delusional

>>51232741
Too many SLs.

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>>51241327
>And Gundam has this?

No.

>>51241476
>Zakus
They use pretty basic armor though, and not a huge amount of it. Also, anyone who squeals about "Muh Gundam," ignores anything to do with Minovsky Particles.

>>51239437
Straight-up bear magic
Canonically they were just as bad as the jags to their conquered populations, but the DA writers liked them, so they magically made the wrasslehogs roll over and retroactively transformed into not shit to 'justify' it

>>51241513
It's trading bullshit for bullshit. I'm just saying Gundam has less of it.

>>51241577
The entire supremacy of the mobile suit is predicated on tanks and fighters being garbage against them.

There's more vehicles in Battletech and combined arms are much more prevalent. That scene with the Zaku is literally what happens anytime you stumble over some SRM carriers in a city fight.

>>51241622
And Manticores can go blow for blow with a number of mechs

>>51241476
To be fair, if you walked a Thud into a Zhukov gunline you'd get similar results.

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>>51241577

Depending on a real analysis and not some 1-liners, I agree with you. I also agree with your opponent.

Ripping on FTL in a fundamentally interstellar setting is retarded. It's completely required to make the setting function. BattleTech at least *tries* to explain KF drives, and tries to do so keeping as close to IRL scientific principles as they can to make them work. Which is plain better than, "a magic particle did it."

Likewise, ripping on the weapon ranges is again retarded, because Gundam has never tried to be a meaningful tabletop game and has never had to worry about actually fitting weapon ranges onto a gaming table. Battletech has to be a quasi-functional game first and foremost, and justifying the fluff MUST come second. Gundam doesn't have that limitation. BattleTech and Gundam are different things, and the fact they're different media must be accounted for unless you're just looking for a mindless internet slapfight.

IMO, Gundam - SOME Gundam - is more "grounded" in reality than BattleTech - SOME BattleTech.

08th MS Team and War in the Pocket, for example, are MUCH more grounded in reality than, say, the early Stackpole novels. However, something like Gundam Wing is complete cliche anime shit - a bunch of emo teenagers piloting Mecha that might as well be superheros given their complete and utter invincibility against anything short of ludicrously overwhelming force. They take "unrealistic" to a point above and beyond anything Stackpole's Phantom Mech pilots ever *dreamed* about.

Meanwhile, Ideal War and sections of the Callebros novels are more grounded in reality than any portion of Gundam ever made. Then again, >>51239227 is entirely correct in that the designers of Gundams actually make mecha that are capable of movement and ingress/egress, while it's not even contestible that many BattleTech mechs aren't drawn with that in mind.

tl;dr: it's not black and white, yo. Some BT is better, some Gundam is better.

How do I into tank lance? Every time I've tried one out against mechs they just kick my shit in (often literally).

>>51241979
Three LRM carriers guarded by a Demolisher

>>51241975
I agree with 99% of your argument, but
>a magic particle did it
isn't entirely accurate (at least in the case of UC, GN particles can go fuck off). They do actually explain how minovsky particles work with about as much credibility as KF drives or myomer, albeit in side material that isn't explicitly canon but still.

If you want to complain about space magic, that's what psychowaves and biosensors are for.

>>51241979

First, are you BV balancing?

Second, are you fighting on terrain favorable to the vees you're using? BV aside, driving a bunch of hovercraft on maps covered in heavy woods is going to make you have a Bad Time.

Third, understand that tanks are not *supposed* to be able to take on a Mech of equivalent weight 1-on-1 (as a general rule - some advanced-tech tanks can pull that off, but not many). For example, x4 50-ton Vedettes are going to lose to x4 50-ton Enforcers *every time*. But then again, Vedettes are 475 BV each compared to 1030 per Enforcer, so if you're going 4v4, you've done something wrong. 8v4 is at least feasible for the Vedettes.

Fourth, tanks are best off as specialists, such as long-range direct or indirect fire, or close support. Their big advantage is that they can have more speed OR more armor OR more payload than a Mech of roughly equivalent weight. A tank lance composed of 2 pairs of specialists which cover the other unit weaknesses is going to be better off 95% of the time than a lance of general-purpose designs. Usually, optimizing for payload or speed is best, because tanks do suffer critical hits more often.

For example, say you're playing a 5,500 BV, lance-sized game. If you want a good tank lance that can go up against Mechs, two Alacorns, 1 LRM carrier, and 1 Demolisher is a solid lance. Optimized for payload, with reasonable armor (LRM carrier uses indirect fire and hides behind terrain for armor), and the Demolishers keep the OPFOR from charging in on you while the LRM carrier and Alacorns put 6 Gauss rounds and 60 LRMs downrange each turn. In 5,500 BV, the opponent is most likely going to have roughly 2 heavy, 1 light, and 1 medium Mech, and is going to struggle (at best) to match the payload you can put out. By optimizing for payload, you've created a competitive lance as long as you can focus on your specialty (overwhelming long-range fire) using tactics and deployment.

>>51241979
Take vehicles that complement each other. For instance, two long-range (Alicorns, Schrecks, Partisans, and yes, LRM carriers) and two really hard close-range bastards to cover them (Demolishers are always good, as are Rommels). If you want all tanks and no missiles, take the Rommel/Patton combo, etc.

>>51242370

Just force the fight in a city and use a bunch of Von Luckners, and laugh all the way.

>>51242409
Not too long ago, I fought a friend in Megamek on one of those heavily built city maps, and made the mistake of jumping a Griffin over a building into a nice niche where I expected the 'Mech to wait in ambush along a long straight.

Of course I landed right in front of a Demolisher who procedeed to give me both barrels at 1 hex. The Griffin exploded like fucking Kenshiro had punched it.

>>51241247
I played a lot of mekwars. It's very competitive, generally not very friendly, and vee effectiveness rules are on.

Your experience may vary.

>>51242287
>First, are you BV balancing?
yes, using megamek's army roller for the bot to get something similar in BV.
>are you fighting on terrain favorable to the vees you're using?
mostly I'm using the random map setting on megamek (though rerolling in really awful cases, I learned my lesson after trying to play a hovertank lance on a 90% forest map)
>Third, understand that tanks are not *supposed* to be able to take on a Mech of equivalent weight 1-on-1
so is there a rule 3a of -1 weight size or something?
>Fourth, tanks are best off as specialists
I think that's where I'm running into problems. I want vehicles that are good at two things* and struggle to find many that really meet that.

*mainly, I just want a saladin with a turret

>>51242862
>mainly, I just want a saladin with a turret

That's a problem. Do you want exactly that - a hover with a turreted AC/20? I can't remember one off hand. In fact, the first thing that comes to mind is sort of the anti-Saladin: the Regulator is a hovertank with a gauss rifle in the turret.

>>51242862
Vehicles are good as semi mobile turrets, fast glass hammers, and boatloads of cheap guns. In general anyway.

The way they take crits, you either need to protect them, drive them like they're on fire, park them in a building for extra armor or keep them in the rear and the flanks as support weapons.

Bank on the extra speed or firepower, don't ever believe for a minute they can take a hit from the side.

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>>51241975
>However, something like Gundam Wing is complete cliche anime shit - a bunch of emo teenagers piloting Mecha that might as well be superheros given their complete and utter invincibility against anything short of ludicrously overwhelming force.

Wing or G Gundam were specifically mentioned as exceptions in the original argument, but hey the argument stands.

>>51243512
>>51243521
I want something that's fast enough to reliably get behind the enemy or keep them at long range, with accurate, single shot firepower to blast through chunks of armor at a time (so AC/20, Gauss Rifle, PPC, and I guess maybe LPL or Heavy Lasers if we include clantech).

>>51243935
You literally want exactly a Regulator, or perhaps some kinda Fulcrum variant

>>51243935
Regulator then. Or a Yellow Jacket if you really feel like being an asshole.

This other guy talking about vehicles made me dig through some with newer bigger guns and I discovered some stuff I didn't know.

Blakists had a C3i Galleon with a Tarcomped ERLL in the turret.

In the Dark Age, they're slapping Gauss Rifles on Vedettes. If that's not scary, I don't know what is.

>>51244037
>>51244046
Having tested a regulator lance in megamek, yeah that's pretty much what I want, though why they would put the targeting computer on the RAC model is beyond me (the fulcrum 3 and yellow jacket also look good).

>>51240918
>>51241292
Oh shit, it is Internet time at the retirement home

>>51239227

>The vehicles are gimped just cause instead of providing a real reason that holds any value.

That's one of the things I believe Code Geass got right.

They showed why vehicles were at disadvantage against mecha, most notably in the opening scenes.

>>51244294
For maximum hits with BRRRRT. Also to inflate bv.

>>51244460
but targeting computers only work if used on single fire.

>>51241087
FRR was rightful Tamar clay.

>>51244554
Back when it was introduced in BMR days, it could. It's a legacy of rules changes in the same way SRM2's used to be the only inferno loads available.

>>51241979
To build upon some of what's been said, remember that most (and the key word there is *most*) vees are not capable of standing up to 'mechs of equivalent size and winning. The ones that are are fairly rare or new -- stuff like the Challenger.

>>51242409
>city
>Von Luckner
Just get a bunch of Typhoons and wreck their shit.

>>51244379
One of the reasons why vees are ineffective compared to 'mechs, rules-wise and not so much fluff-wise, is lack of mobility. Nearly every vehicle has one restriction on where it can or can't enter. 'mechs are pretty much unable to enter a location that's going to destroy them -- like wading through a magma or lava flow.

Fluff-wise, there's a whole host of reasons for their combat superiority.

>>51239437
URSUS SHENG URSUS SHENG!

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>>51244960

Honestly, if I'm wrecking people's shit in cities I'm just gonna ambush with AC/20 field gunners and SRM carriers. Crude, but effective.

>>51241979
To add to all the other advice, vees have another huge advantage - being one level high.

>>51244224
That Galleon is really nice, I've used full linked level IIs of them on occasion.

>>51244294
IMO the YJ is too slow, unless you take the PPC version

>>51245194
I've ran those Galleons singly stripped of the C3i. Can't remember what I did with the extra weight, but I found them pretty useful.

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>>51245114
Field Gunners are great. I almost always outfit my Mechanized Infantry with field guns, usually a pair of LBX-10s. I've pissed off many a person in city combat by playing cat-and-mouse with them and a Light SRM Carrier or a Drillson. Lure them to a spot in front of an alleyway. Then: see pic.

>>51244379
>They showed why vehicles were at disadvantage against mecha, most notably in the opening scenes.

Pretty much any vehicle is vulvernable if your enemy has air superiority and can drop shit right next to you whenever they feel like it.

I mean other than Taliban Bikers. Taliban Bikers apparently are absolutely immune to US air strikes, which I guess is why the US never tried to stop them from turning parts of Afghanistan into Mad Max with beards.

>>51245360
The BV cheapness of carrying guns always goes

>Mech with guns
>Lets just forget the limbs and slap some guns on a metal box. That will be cheaper.
>We don't even need a metal box.

And that's why field gunners are the best infantry.

>>51245379

>Pretty much any vehicle is vulvernable if your enemy has air superiority and can drop shit right next to you whenever they feel like it.

Well it wasn't just that in Code Geass.

On the ground, they showed a Nightmare frame easily side stepping a tank blast and then shooting the tank from behind.

>>51245442
They're some of the best, but they're expensive for what you get. Field Artillery is good if you need a forward artillery gun, but don't discredit regular foot and jump infantry either. Former can do anti-'mech attacks, and the latter has good mobility -- in multiple directions, plus can be dropped from DropShip or other carrier.

>>51245553
>but they're expensive for what you get.

Not really. 7 LAC2's for 260BV is bordering on unfairly good for your money. Or you can get Pike numbers of plinkers for a fraction of taking a real Pike. I think they reworked the Gauss ones though. Used to be 2 to a platoon and now it's just 1.

Regular infantry just don't have the range to do much. They're area denial and living mines more than anything.

>>51233619
the second one

>>51245670
Really depends upon what rules you're playing with. With just core rules, yeah, not that great. But if you use some of the optional rules from Tacops and Stratops, they can become monsters in their own right. Field fortifications and trenchworks, digging in, using non-infantry objects as cover, advanced sensor rules with stealth infantry, etc. Not to mention throwing specialists in there, like demolitions guys.

If you use any kind of RP rules, they can also set up minefields, launch NARC, TAG units, in worst case be a spotter, set up booby traps, and more.

>>51245796
>With just core rules, yeah, not that great.

Spotting is core rules. TAG is tourney legal equipment though you usually see it on BA. And even just plain old guns and core rules, they are not just great, they are excellent.

Even more so under basic core rules because you don't have any AOE's like proper artillery to wipe them out. Failing to bring AOE weapons of some type or at least some really good anti-infantry machine when they're on the field at any rules level makes them a real pain.

They're literally the most gun for your BV, and make turret techers look like amateurs. Park them in a hardened building with clear LOS and watch the fireworks.

>>51245928

Is it bad that I wish there were proper satchel charges you could plant on mechs and vees? Like, arm a jump platoon with them, plant them, then they go off like a turn later.

>>51246254
There are in the RPG rules. They've also been stated several times to be used in the anti-'mech attacks.

Did the FWL build any aerospace fighters besides the Cheetah, Stingray and Reiver during the Succession Wars?

How do the Lancer and Shiva rate as aerospace fighters?

>>51246327

Right, but I'd like some tabletop rules for them, because I love tabletop infantry shenanigans.

What kind of unit would you see an Ares in?
I nabbed one for a pretty good deal and was wondering what formations it sees use in.
(I know it's republic, I mean in terms of company deployment and stuff.)

>>51246382
Anti-mech attacks are a tabletop rule though

>>51246328
Not sure but I think the Lancer was meant to replace the Cheetah judging from its description as a recon craft.

>>51246432

Is that what leg/swarm attacks are? Infantry going "y'know what'd plug up this nook real good? c4." on shit? I guess I hadn't really thought about it like that before.

>>51246687
Attaching blocks of C8, satchel charges, limpet mines, even pentaglycerine. Basically, yeah. It's a way to depict infantry climbing onto a 'mech, blasting at exposed actuators, ports, etc. with weapons, explosives, etc.

>>51245928
You're missing the point. Using RPG rules, even a platoon of basic rifle infantry can do those tasks if they have the right equipment. Remember that rules from ATOW and TW have crossover and links, so you can run one from another. So you can give a person in that platoon a man-portable TAG unit, or a light SRM launcher with NARC rounds (or even a VLAW), give the entire platoon mines and have them set them, etc. It all depends upon how much depth and time you want to sink in.

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>>51238427
>DO EEEEET

The left side of the picture was very empty, so I added a Griffin to it.

>I love your art. It's very home-y, if that makes any sense.

I see the words "cozy" and "comfy" show up in /WIP/ and /WSG/ on a fairly frequent basis. It reminds you of home, the way things used to be?

I remember the good old 1980's
when things were so uncomplicated
I wish I could go back there again
and everything would be the same.

Are Dracs still making the Zooch in 3145?

If I field everything except battlemechs, am I at a severe advantage over my opponent?

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>>51248620
>If I field everything except battlemechs, am I at a severe advantage over my opponent?

If your "everything" includes aerospace fighters and artillery, and he *doesn't* have those things? Yeah, I think you stand a pretty good chance.

>>51248620
In general yes, but it heavily depends on the circumstances. Vees, protos, and BA will tend to punch above their weight in cities, for example. Hovercraft can be very good on maps with water. Etc etc and so on and so forth.

>>51248620

"Everything except BattleMechs" would include WarShips. So yes, presumably, you would have a moderate advantage.

>>51248620
Even if you have all of the pieces, if you fuck up it can still mean that you're toast. Having nothing but elite 'mechs means you can still get stomped if you're a shit commander.

>>51248663
>>51248683
>>51248693
I'm just asking if battlemechs are actually the most efficient use of battle value, tonnage, etc.

I get the impression they're not.

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>>51248693

>>51248727

Think of mechs as a swiss army knife. Strong utility, and can be pretty good at what it does, but there are other options that can be better when it comes to specialization.

>>51248727
Well you could do what my asshole friend did and just bring equal BV in field gun AC/5s and get about 80 of them.
Or you could bring 60 conventional bombers.
Or just a bunch of arty, the possibilities are endless.

>>51248727
>I'm just asking if battlemechs are actually the most efficient use of battle value, tonnage, etc.

The huge advantages Mechs have over everything else is that they're always *good* - even if they're not "best" - in essentially *every* reasonable terrain type (ie, everything not underwater or in space). Hovers get you more tonnage-efficient speed, for example, but they get badly shut down in urban or forested terrain, while a light Mech that's slightly slower can move through those terrain types just fine.

Likewise, they're among the hardest unit types to actually kill. Even if you're discounting campaign play (where they're DEFINITELY) the hardest unit type to remove from the OPFOR's OOB, they're harder to kill on a ton-for-ton basis than any sort of vee or ASF or emplacement.

While they may not be the most efficient, they're essentially ALWAYS going to be useful in any situation, while all other unit types end up with heavy restrictions on their use.

>>51248794

My players have been browsing through the unit lists, and will ask me why I haven't thrown XYZ unit (usually some flavor of infantry) at them yet, and my response is typically "because I want to keep having people to play with".

>>51248485
>The left side of the picture was very empty, so I added a Griffin to it.
I like. I like. It has a very early Griffin / Soltic H8 feel to it.
>I see the words "cozy" and "comfy" show up in /WIP/ and /WSG/ on a fairly frequent basis. It reminds you of home, the way things used to be?
It reminds me when I was really young and just got into BT in the 1980s. The art from the old scenario books, the feel to things, good times. It reminds me of home back then.

>>51248884

NEA, if you're handy can you tell me what force deployment the ROTS uses? Is it standard IS companies and if so how would an Ares fit into that?

>>51249076

Short version:

Each prefecture has 3 formations assigned to it: Hastati, Principes, and Triarii (in that descending order of expertise). Each formation includes one BattleMech regiment, 3 armor regiments, 3 infantry regiments, and a battalion of artillery and an ASF wing. As far as I'm aware they're all organized along standard Star League lines, though I don't know whether or not they use separate command formations (HQ lance/company).

In addition, the ROTS has the Northwind Highlanders (also basically SLDF organization), and the Paladin/Knight organization, who are basically individual roving troubleshooters.

In general, Triarii are medium-heavyweight forces (so they live long enough to get experience), Hastati are elite-rated attack forces, and the Principes are the anvil to the Hastati's hammer. By that description, there'd likely be a couple of Ares in the Hastati for use when they have to make a deliberate assault a postion. However, the bulk of the superheavies should be in with the Principes as befitting their role as a more defensive force.

AFAIK we don't really have more detail than that. Using "sanity" as my guide from here on out, I'd estimate there there'd be roughly 1 lance of superheavies per battalion of Principes, and at most 1 lance of them in a whole Hastati regiment. They would be vanishingly rare to nonexistent in Triarii units.

>>51248884


>everything not underwater or in space

They have mechs that can traverse both of those locations can't they?

I know there is a Combine variant of the Hatamoto that can and I believe the Snow Ravens have mechs that can operate in space.

>>51249339
You just have to refit for sealant and O2 production. Not sure if it requires a factory refit or not.

>>51249330
>one battalion arty TOTAL to 7 regiments line troops
[concerned red army noises]

>>51249339

Just because Mechs CAN operate in those environments doesn't make them good at it. Mechs are so completely outclassed by submersibles underwater and by ASFs in open space that deploying them into those environments should be a last resort. Yes, even the Mechs "designed" to operate in space - a quasi-competent aero player will crush the Mechs badly.

Do note that by "space" I mean "open space". A Mech that's on a planet - even a low-gravity planet - gains a ton of usefulness. A Mech floating around in freefall while some ASFs are flying around is almost certainly in deep trouble.

>>51249439
What mechs were designed to operate in space?

>>51249471
C'mon, man. It's like 4 posts above you. >>51249339

Oh, and the Gallant.

>>51249471

The Shadow Hawk IIC7 is one and the Warhammer IIC7.

Both of which were developed by Clan Snow Raven.

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>>51249045
>I like. I like. It has a very early Griffin / Soltic H8 feel to it.

Really, anon... is there any other kind?

>>51249330
This reads weird.

In the old Roman Legions, it was Hastati as the newer troops, Principes were the more experienced soldiers, and Triarii were the veterans. But this seems to be implying in the forces you describe (presumably based on the Romans), that the Triarii are inexperienced and the Hastati are the elite.

>>51249579

Yeah, I know. I'm not wrong. It's EXPLICITLY backwards from history.

>>51249422
That's pretty standard for battletech. Somebody looked at it once and concluded that a battletech-ified version the Soviet forces assigned to the fulda gap alone could crush the entire fucking clan invasion gound force entrely on artillery and infantry, let alone armor

So I was looking at Combat Manual Mercenaries and noticed some stuff that's wrong. Is it worth it to point it out on the OF?

>>51250247
Wrong as in it doesn't correspond to the old books or wrong as in "This shit doesn't make any sense"

>>51250247

Aside from the entire section where they decide that using randomly-rolled C-bills as a balancing mechanic is a good idea, what sort of other completely wrong things are you finding?

>>51250291
>>51250295
Fluff stuff that contradicts previous sourcebooks and novels. I'd list it but I'm realizing it might sound autistic to complain about.

>>51248519
A new variant even. Uses advanced armor and mounts ten SRM tubes, but that's all we know, since they still haven't actually made RS for the 3150 NTNU stuff.

>>51249918
I dunno if they could do it with just the 8th Guards Army, but I'd definitely say they could with the whole GSFG.

>>51249421
You don't have to do that. That's just a good idea. A BattleMech is already environmentally sealed and comes with its own oxygen supply. Minimum 24 hours worth, but usually longer. Carrying small reserves of water gives it both fuel and oxygen.

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>>51250295
Glad to see you back, NEA. I was going to ask you an aerospace question before. I see that circa 3025-3050 all the Successor States except House Marik manufacture at least one generic aerospace fighter besides their own triad of regular designs. Lyrans build practically everything, Capellans have at least the Lightning, Suns have Sabres, Hellcats, Eagles, etc and Draconians have something but I forget.

Given what the Mariks have, what generic aerospace designs would complement their Cheetah/Stingray/Riever squadrons?

>>51249421
Battlemechs are already fully sealed and with life support, and can hop into water or vacuum at anytime.

But underwater they're quite slow and risk falling and missiles and ballistics don't work, so unless tailored for the work with UMUs and torpedoes and energy weapons, they aren't all that good. And for vacuum, they can and do tromp around on airless moons and shit just fine, but in open space even with jump jets and extra propellant they just can't compare to ASF at all.

>>51249555
Also any U config of an omnimech with fixed jump jets. U configs are normally for underwater use and mount UMUs, torpedoes and sometimes harjel, but since UMUs and jump jets can't work together things like the Black Hawk get space capable U configs.

>>51250585
>Given what the Mariks have, what generic aerospace designs would complement their Cheetah/Stingray/Riever squadrons?

Sorry for the delay - I had to go get some medicine for my wife.

IMO the single biggest hole in the Marik ASF lineup is a light ASF that is even moderately capable/survivable. Because the Cheetah is terrible at actually fighting - disintegrating when something sneezes near you isn't terribly helpful. I'd give them the Centurion for that role. Basically the Cheetah becomes a 1st-shell interceptor/recon bird, while the Centurion takes on a 2nd-shell interceptor/dogfighter role.

In the medium category, it's hard to add to the Stingray, honestly. It's tied for "best air-superiority bird", tied up with the Eagle/Transgressor (which are so close to the same thing as to be identical). The dogfights between Purple Burd Eagle/Stingrays and Limp Sword Transgressors must be amazing to watch. With the Eagle and Stingray in FWLAF inventories, the entire remainder of the "medium fighter" category is almost invalidated (compare and contrast the Hellcat to the available FWLAF fighters). Perhaps the only medium fighter I'd consider adding is the Lightning, to give the Burds a meaningful attack fighter that can be fielded in large numbers.

Since the Riever is clearly intended as a close-in attack craft, the obvious addition to the heavy fighter category is the Thunderbird. That gives the FWLAF a fire-support design that can cover the advance of Lightning and Riever attack runs.

>>51251145
How would you rate the periphery powers in terms of their ASF inventories?

>>51251348

Rating them as per approximately the start of the FedCom Civil war, I'd posit the following:

>greentext are "common" designs within the faction, from prior research for an AeroTech Quick-start Rules project

OA: Capable of making a Successor State's life difficult, they have basically all of the major roles covered. They even have the numbers to stay on even ground with any reasonable attack force - while a House has overall better numbers, they can't devote *enough* aerospace to get a guaranteed win against the OA without killing their strength elsewhere. >Sparrowhawk/Seydlitz/Tomahawk/Corsair/Lightning/Hellcat/Slayer/Stuka/Thunderbird

TC: Not as good as the OA, but probably the next-best air force in the Periphery. They have most of the major roles covered, but the coverage is not always via optimal choices, and a fair portion of their air force is Davion-sourced designs I image they'd be loathe to use. They can't stop a force cold in space, but they can at least provide meaningful air support in almost all cases. Their heavy fighter selection is notably weak unless they have WAY more Thunderbirds than I think they do.
>Seydlitz/Rogue/Hellcat II/Transit/Transgressor/Slayer/Chippewa

Marians: Much, much weaker. Barely an air force at all - completely dependent on a very limited selection of fighters. The only reason they have a real chance in the air is because they have a fair number of Stingrays, which are very good ASFs.
>Cheetah/Stingray/Lucifer/Thunderbird

MoC: Complete joke. Their numbers are so low for almost all of canon (~100 ASFs total) that the actual classes basically don't matter. They're almost always going to be fighting at 3-to-1 or worse disadvantage against anyone who isn't a pirate.
>Thrush/Corsair/Eagle/Transgressor/Chippewa

>>51251547

I thought the Taurians also imported quite a bit fo Aerospace from the Outworlds and Capellans during the Trinity Alliance?

>>51251659

That would be why they have significant numbers of Slayers (OA), Seydlitz (OA), Transgressors (CC), and IIRC Transits (CC).

Their only native ASF manufacturing is the Sabre, Seydlitz, T-bird, and Chippewa. From my notes (and I'm sorry I don't have the sources of those notes - this was a 2008-era project), the numbers of Sabres and T-birds were very low, and Seydlitz production is only moderate at best.

Also remember, the effective date of my estimate is ~3061. The Trinity Alliance wasn't signed until August 3058, and the shipments physically *couldn't* really get to the TC until midway into 3059 between word of the Alliance getting out, the order to spin up the factories, arranging the transport, and actually getting them there by JumpShip. So it's not like there's been a whole long time for the TC to build up their stock of imported airframes.

>>51251547
>is Davion-sourced designs I image they'd be loathe to use
The fluff doesn't indicate any particular dislike for davion gear, although they DO apparently have a dislike for machines seen as emblematic of the SLDF, like the Guillotine and most probably the Atlas

Is House Marik really descended from the Austro-Hungarian monarchy?

>>51252428
I mean, by the law of generations, they probably would be, but then *so would everyone else*

>>51252414

Isn't a lot of what they field emblematic of the SLDF?

Like the Thunderbolts, Marauders and what not?

>>51252517

Yes, which is why the TC are a bunch of gigantic fucking hypocrites.

>>51252517
Kinda but not really, all their mechs were things that the SLDF fielded, but so did everyone else, so they really aren't iconic to anyone in particular

>>51252517
I wouldn't call a thud or marauder emblematic of the SLDF, not in the way of things like the Atlas or Mackie or any of the Royal shit or even the Orion. They're just too diluted by how common they are in every other army

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Just finished up this Pleiades Lancers Wolfhound. I feel pretty okay about it, but I wonder if I'm doing too dark of a wash? Or maybe I need to just apply the yellow lines after the wash?

>>51252630
The Thud was of pre-SL Capellan origin anyway.

And whatever issues they may have with anything, the simple reality for the Taurians through most of their existence is that don't have any choice as to what they could actually build. If some BCS thinks Griffins aren't Taurian enough, tough luck unless he can shit out a Talos factory.

>>51252680
Some worn edging would make that pop like a mfker

A hex is supposed to represent roughly 30m^2, yea?

And mechs displace about 10-20m^2? And between 30m to 70m tall?

>>51253831
Mechs are around 10 meters tall on average.

>>51253854
>10m tall
That seems off. Protomechs are like that big, aren't they?

>the crushing realization that your giant robots aren't as giant as you always thought they were.

>>51253894
>Protomechs are like that big, aren't they?
Nah, protos are 6-ish meters

>>51252543
Where's the hypocrisy?

New thread...
>>51254048

>>51253603
Like some highlighting, you mean? Or letting some metal show through?

Design the most effective melee mech you can manage
-only weapons allowed are melee
-no tonnage restriction, you can design a speedy light mech made for charging as well as a slow but hard hitting assault
-no era restriction, go balls to the wall with tech
-quirks are allowed

>>51252680
Use a brighter yellow if you want it to pop more post wash.
But it looks pretty good.

>>51249471
There's a Goshawk variant too, IIRC.