/40kg/ - warhammer 400000 general

>>51199700
First for the Guard!

The Imperial Guard Stands!

Should I try to give my Nobz their least shitty loadout or should I accept that they are bad and give them whatever looks cool?

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This is looking like THE Death Guard list

>>51199734
Second one. Do that for all Orks. Have fun with it, really.

whats out today lads?

>>51199735
>las havocs
>not delicious autocannon havocs using their relentless to sweep units after giving them a pounding

>>51199734

If your entire army is being optimized you can actually win some games with orks and klaw nobs but if you're not really changing the whole army just use this as a good opportunity to model whatever the fuck you want because the army's probably going to lose either way.

>>51199744
AoS Tzeentch stuff, mostly.

>>51199749
I was thinking about autocannons but I was really torn between the two. I decided if I'll be against Eldar I'd take them but otherwise I'd just throw my bikes at the masses and have dependable armor penetration with range, all else being melta.

>>51199751
these and some flash gitz are literally my first ork kits over

and wouldn't an optimized ork army not include nobz at all? might as well have fun with it I guess

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>>51199735

>See this
>Look at pic
>Try to understand the reason to continue

>>51199773

shootas require nobs

>>51199785
>axillary, 1-10 per core
>as if someone is going to take 30 dakkajets per core

>>51199773

>and wouldn't an optimized ork army not include nobz at all?

Correct. But an optimized ork army is basically a bunch of bikes, MANZ in Trukks, Buzzgob's Stompa and some grot mobs. Maybe some Mek Gunz.

>might as well have fun with it I guess

This is exactly the correct attitude to have with orks.

>>51199807

>not taking 30 Dakkajets to synergize with WAAAGH every turn

C'mon git

>>51199807
It has a second page of aux units.

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>>51199749
Would you give all four autocannons from each squad or would you mix it up a bit with one lascannon and three autocannons per squad?
This does free up a ton of points for more bikes

>>51199762
No Lord of Change yet unfortunately. It appears Lord Tzeentch wishes for his faithful to hope for it next Saturday.

>>51199842
4 autocannons, never, ever mix and match weapons unless you have split fire. You always are losing effectiveness if you do so

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>>51199700
>airbrush the single spot with no reflective lighting OSL
>something stupidly heavy mounting a creature that has skinnier limbs.
>riding with no stirrup while having a saddle

fucking disgusting.

Why is the Internet's collective head lodged units own ass about Thousand Sons? Every "tactical" thread I go to is in full denial about how shitty they are. Even here we constantly get shitposters defending them.

so what was it that allows tau to take multiple relics?

>>51200010
Cause anyone who actually plays the game knows they are good. Most people here don't even play

>>51200010
Because they're fun

>>51200057
True most people don't play. They mathhammer and read bat reps and then decide that way.

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>>51199990
talking about skinny legs carrying something stupidly heavy how the fuck am i suppose to actively transport this thing without its legs snapping off?

>>51200082
Magnetise them and detach them when you have to carry it.

>>51200057
A friend of mine who plays around with CSM and Demons actually bought a lot of the stuff and we've been playing some games with the new 1k Sons stuff. The verdict we're reaching so far? Expensive core bits that allow you to more effectively spam demons, making the centerpiece ( The Rubricae) somewhat redundant part of the whole thing. Neat to look at though. Also really stupid powers that give a chance to give FnP to enemy units while also allowing access to the same renamed power that doesn't do that is retarded. Not sure who thought that was a good idea.

It's all anecdotal mind you, but it's all I've got to work with that isn't from a website. It is what it is.

Gonna be playing my first ever 40k game as a friends who it will also be his first. He is playing emperors children but I am unsure of what exactly he is bringing. I know tau are much stronger than EC and I want to make sure my list isn't super optimised blow him out of the water type thing, it's really just the models I have

(1498pts)

++ Combined Arms Detachment
+ HQ (110pts) +

Cadre Fireblade (60pts)

Ethereal (50pts)

+ Elites (569pts) +

XV104 Riptide Battlesuits (275pts) [2x MV84 Shielded Missile Drone]
Riptide Shas'vre [Early Warning Override, Ion Accelerator, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits (124pts) [2x MV1 Gun Drone, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon]
Stealth Shas'vre [Burst Cannon]

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits (170pts)
Ghostkeel Shas'vre [Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Flamer]

+ Troops (90pts) +

Strike Team (45pts) [5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle]

Strike Team (45pts) [5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle]

Fast Attack (307pts)

Pathfinder Team (214pts) [2x MV1 Gun Drone, MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone, 2x Pathfinder]
Pathfinder Shas'ui [Pulse Carbine with Markerlight]
2x Pathfinder with Rail Rifle [2x Rail Rifle]
TY7 Devilfish [2x MV1 Gun Drone]

Pathfinder Team (93pts) [MB3 Recon Drone, 4x Pathfinder]
Pathfinder Shas'ui [Pulse Carbine with Markerlight]

Heavy Support (65pts)

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (65pts)
Broadside [Twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]

++ Allied Detachment (Tau Empire: Codex (357pts)

Farsight Enclaves

+ HQ (145pts) +
Commander (145pts)
XV8 Commander Crisis Suit [Command and Control Node, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit]

Troops (212pts)
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (212pts) [Bonding Knife Ritual]
Crisis Shas'ui [Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle]X4

>>51200099
i forget magnetizing is a thing sometimes

>>51200057
>Cause anyone who actually plays the game knows they are good.
lol

>>51199990
it was a joke model desu senpai

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>>51199785
>Completely inflexible formations
>For arguably the LEAST organized fighting force in the entire game

Im still fucking mad

>>51200057
Nigger, I've been playing TS since 4e. The new rules are shit. They do absolutely fuck all to fix any of the faction/unit issues, the discipline is still as crappy as it was, and all of the new shit is, at the absolute best, underwhelming.

>>51200156
Proposed change to Codex: Orks

Orks armies must always have an HQ choice.
Orks have no other FOC limitations.

Ok, so I've got that DA army I've been learning how to paint on for a while now. The models don't look shit but god they do look inconsistent.
Could you recommend me some tips? I've been thinking about giving the troops some heavy weathering in order to mask the differences between them. I don't want to strip the models but it hurts my eyes.

>>51200190
That wouldn't even be overpowered although
> 1850 points
> 24 ML2 weirdboyz
> all one unit
> all rolling for sanctuary
Yeah actually I could see actual fun from the codex

>>51200190
>1 Warboss
>20 Custom Stompas

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Is Start Collecting box + Armoured Assault box a good way to start a small army for ~1000pts games and Kill Team? I'm thinking about Tau or Nids Necrons also look neat and easy to paint but their boxes don't grant a wide wariety of models. Is bundle like this a good way for newbie to jump into one of these factions or is there another - better - way to go about this?

Also what about next edition? I mean, is there a risk that if I buy something now, it could be useable only as dust-collector on shelf in next six months?

>>51199735
Why would you put 4 heavy weapons in a vehicle only two can shoot out of?

I think Armorbane should affect individual units/characters with armor and not just vehicles, or the name of the mechanic should change. It doesn't make much sense to have 'armor' not effected by 'armorbane' (aka Anti-armor)

>>51200346
Isn't the custom stompa unique as you buy it with buzzgob or whatever his name is?

>>51200373
the tau one is rathre good for jumping into starting a tau army i dont know about the nids one. There is a risk of buying useless models but i dont think its a high risk as tau have been strong in most editions.

>>51200398
Most armorbane weapons are already high ap.

>>51200373
Looks really good and I'm pretty sure you get what's in the box at a very nice discount.

I don't think Tau and their infantry are going out of style any time soon even if 8th does change the game radically.

>>51200411
Tau don't have useful and useless models.

They gave good and stupidly good models, min-maxing is why you never see the simply good models.

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>>51200408

Nope, that's just a standard Big Mek Stompa. The Kustom Stompa is from the same book, but is basically a "build your own Stompa".

It's exactly what the rules for the Stompa SHOULD be.

>>51200190

Codex: Orks was basically written like this. It was the first codex release after 7th came out and it reads just like it was intended to be played as Unbound, especially with the bloated HQ and HS sections.

But then as 7th continued GW realized that no-one played Unbound but it was too late for Orks by then.

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Does anyone else play in such a way that you know it's not ideal, it's not meta. But it's fun because it's fluffy? Even if you lose? I do do that with my 'nids.

>>51200416
>Most

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>his army cannot hold the line
>his men wont die standing
>he wont sacrifice himslef for the Imperium with His name on his lips
Why even bother?

>>51200474
I can't actually think of any, but if I said all someone would undoubtedly correct me.

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>>51199255
>doesn't recognize a meme

>>51200373
Nothing wrong with the models you got but I doubt you'll get to 1000 points without putting on useless wargear.

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>>51200398

>>51200496
What would you add to Tau and Nids to complete them? I don't want a WAAC tournament list - just something casual and easy to run but also not entirely unusable

>>51200551
A Commander is always good to have.

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Working on some Blood Angels list building, I have a Fire Raptor, 3 Dreadnoughts (Furioso, Librarian, Death Company), 20 Death Company, 20 Sanguinary Guard,10 Vanguard Veterans (magnetized, counts as Assault Marines), 3 Drop pods and a bunch of unpainted Tacticals.

Any ideas what I should do with them?

Also a GK Librarian 10 GKTs 10 PAGKs and a Dreadknight in my backlog.

what exactly is an air superiority detachment?
Kind of struggling to understand it.
How does it work?
What are its restrictions?

>>51200551
Id pick up some kroot to pad the troop choices and then maybe some more pathfinders if you can squeeze em in also a box of crisis suits wont hurt

>>51200556
And by commander, I mean a tau commander in a crisis suit.

>>51200551
From tau boxes you can get roughly 750p army with some upgrade bloat and/or by converting one of the suits to a commander (different paint scheme/extra antennas etc.) So to fill 250p you'd have to take one or two heavy hitters. Riptide would be nobrainer option but we should leave that out before /40kg/ chimps out. Hammerhead/skyray is a good choice, more crisis suits or a broadside squad. School of piranhas. Pretty much anything, but I'd suggest some anti-armor.

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World Eaters list

Also, is it better to run 2x 20 mam blobs or 4x 10 squads of marines?
I also realise i forgot to mark the termiside squads. Consider an extra havoc dropped

Anyone has an idea how to represent a Rogue Trader on the tabletop? I was thinking guardsmen to act as the crew, some obligatory kroot mercs, maybe a hereticus inquisitor model for the trader himself.

AAs a SW player with many sources of delivering remove from play (Helfrost and JOTWW), I've come to the conclusion that remove from play is a terrible mechanic and should be removed from the game.

What do you think and what should it be replaced with on existing rules that have it?
Just instant death so we can't freeze magnus because eternal warrior?

Since Havocs are now a prerequisite for all CSM armies, I wish they would release new models. They're hard to find on ebay for a decent price and shitcast anyway.

>>51200697

Pretty much whatever you like. Rogue Traders are a very mixed bunch, which is unsurprising given that they operate outside of the regular norms of the Imperium. About the only characteristics you'd need to demonstrate would be wealth and very powerful equipment and/or bodyguards.

>>51200752
Yeah, I guess so. A shame there is no codex that I could use to play though.

>>51200110
It's fine. If your opponent brings something deliberately bad he'll get his shit kicked in, but I would argue that's mostly his own fault. Consider sending him your list if you want to make sure, I doubt he can counter it super well even if he tried.

>>51200190
Orks gots to have a proppa amount o' boyz tho. No boyz no WAAAGH!s.

>>51200463
My codex incourages me to play a fluffy army because it isn't shit.

>>51200761

I'd say the best codex to represent them would be Inquisitors. They're largely similar, and hell, Inquisitors commonly disguise themselves as Rogue Traders (a fact that Amberly Vael in the Cain series laments. She disguises herself as a spoiled rich aristocratic daughter or a cabaret singer).

>>51200761
Everything you want to play can probably be made through Imperial Agents in some form.

So, thinking of doing a Mechanicus army using the combined list you can do with the new Fall of Cadia book, mainly because what has kept me out of 40k for years now has been a hatred of like formations and the like, but I rather like this combined list enough to give it a go again, suggestions and/or tips?

how easy are skitarii to piece together for someone new to model building? is it pretty simple or should I expect to cock it up quite a bit?

Also, how fucking jewy is it that the Start collecting: paint bundles don't actually come with paintbrushes, you have to get those fuckers separate.

>>51200398
AVs should not exist in the first place. Having a intricate damage system for vehicles and no such intricate system for MCs is dumb. Making all vehicles into MCs wouldn't be a horrible idea if you want to encourage bigger battles and streamline the rules, on the other hand giving MCs a more detailed way of being damaged if you want to make smaller battles more lifelike is also not a bad idea. Removing the strength cap is also not a horrible idea, why have S 8 Armourbane when you can have S 11/12?

>>51200744
are you saying we should helfrost helfrost?

>>51200789
what codex?

>>51200846
I think he's saying we should remove it from play.

>>51200833

Imagine playing MC's with this:

Whenever a Monstrous Creature suffers an unsaved wound, roll on the following chart. Add +1 to the roll if the wound was caused by an AP2 weapon, or +2 to the roll if the wound was caused by an AP1 weapon.

1-3: Concussion - A blow to the creature's head or targeting systems leaves it unable to focus. The Monstrous Creature can only fire Snap Shots until the end of its next turn.

4: Stunning Blow - The wound overwhelms the creature momentarily, leaving it temporarily disabled. The Monstrous Creature can only fire Snap Shots until the end of its next turn. In addition, it cannot move until the end of its next turn. If it is a Flying Monstrous Creature, it may not change flight modes in its next movement phase.

5: Arm Shot - One of the creature's arms or weapon mounts is ripped asunder. One of the Monstrous Creature's weapons (randomly chosen) is destroyed. This can include wargear such as teeth and claws. If the creature has no weapons left, treat this result as Crippled instead.

6. Crippled! - The creature's lower limbs or locomotion systems are utterly destroyed. A Crippled Monstrous Creature cannot move. If it is a Flying Monstrous Creature in Swoop mode, it immediately takes a Grounded test that it automatically fails.

7: Mortal strike! - The blow punches through to a vital organ or system. The wound causes Instant Death.

>>51200615
4*10 lets you Assault more squads without losing 2 A/model. 2*20 lets you pile in with models that may not have otherwise been able to reach combat. I'd go for the 4*10.

Which forgeworld flyers can be taken in a flyer wing? Is it any that can be bought as a squadron?
Or is it specifically stated somewhere.
Asking in particular about running remora drones as a flyer wing since they get purchased as a squadron. Could I take them as an air superiority detachment? Trying to run a dawn blade contingent and want them as air support since tau GW flyers are the worst in 40k.

>>51200744
Making remove from play effects into ID is a good idea. One thing that would go well with that is giving eternal warriors FNP so ID still has some effect. Magnus should probably just have the GMC special rule that makes it so removed from play effects causes D3 wounds.

>>51200860
the word targeting system shouldn't be included in something that is considered a monster

>>51200860
It'd make monstrous creatures complete garbage, so mission accomplished I guess.

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>>51200888

>>51200888
Cough riptides
Cough wraithknights
>t. Tau player

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>>51200798
>>51200797
So I`ve made something that looks legit enough for me. I know that its bad, but it was made to be fluffy, not competetive.

>>51200817
You mean the Grand Convocation?

Because there is next to no reason to take it over just running a Cult Mech detachment next to a Skitarii Maniple. Infact, you lose the bonuses those detachments give you.

Unless you are playing about 4000 points the only buff you are getting is IWND on vehicles, one of which can buy it as an upgrade, another has a 5+ natural cover and the third is never taken.

Oh and PotMS, but that is only useful if you want to embed an Icarus Onager in with Neutron Onagers.

>>51200925

Not so sure about the acolytes. Rogue Traders I'd imagine to have better equipped soldiers. Tempestous Scions would be more in line with what I'd expect; body armour, hellguns, etc. The Ogryns fit well enough though. Is Nord Dedog still a thing? Ogryn bodyguard for the Rogue Trader seems very fitting.

Oh, and don't forget that every Rogue Trader, by definition, has a starship. And aside from the firepower it brings, they have dropships, usually armed. Including a Guard flyer would be entirely keeping in line with the theme.

>>51200913
>>51200919
i cant say how much i hate these things more than it has already been said by everyone else

>>51200925
Techpriests are a seperate faction aren't they?

You can organize your army into an inquisition formation, an AM CAD and an allied detachment with the Tech Priest and the Servitors.

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>>51200951
Shall we go on?

>>51200951
As a tau player (the one that replied), there is actually a reasons for tau suits to be monstrous creatures and not walkers. I don't own any monstrous creatures as a tau player as I use a bit of forgeworld flyer cheese for my high impact dakka. Anyway, back to the reason they aren't walkers: drones, all suits can take drones, drones with AV would be retarded as you can't mix toughness and AV in one squad. And drones with AV would make all drones have AV, which would screw with other non creature suits and infantry. As for WK, no excuse there.

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What's the best way to build an urban focused guerrilla tactics renegade guard army?
Does the emperors blade assault company + some auxiliaries solve my problems?

A charismatic commissar becomes disillusioned with the imperium and leads a rebellion against the imperium, rallying his loyal followers and whatever armour he can find.

How would you build it anon?

>>51200981
That's a problem they made themselves by letting them take drones. A simple solution would be to NOT let them have drones.

Or make some system where drones can be independently targeted out of units.

With the fall of Cadia, who do you how becomes the new face of the guard?

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>>51200463
I play Necrons and have never used any formation other than CAD. I mostly play against cheesemongering Tau, and Space Marine players. I haven't won a game in over 3 months...

>>51201008
Hope*

>>51201008
preatorian guard

Pls GW

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>>51200955
>>51200944
Higher points cost, but it might actually be somehow threatening on the table top now, because Vendettas are fucking nuts.

>>51200987
Take a militarism hell rain brigade detachment. Highly paid suicide squads dropping from then orbiting rogue trader ship with the commissar barking orders at them. The command squad is there for defence and the taurox is the evac if things get hairy.

>>51200987
Take a militarism hell rain brigade detachment. Highly paid suicide squads dropping from then orbiting rogue trader ship with the commissar barking orders at them. The command squad is there for defence and the taurox is the evac if things get hairy.
Maybe that could be part of your force?

>>51200981

But...Tau vehicles have Drones. They just attach to the hull and if they choose to detach, they're treated as a separate unit. With Toughness values.

There's really no reason why the Riptide couldn't have this.

>>51201035
That's actually pretty rad
Keep these ideas flowing anon I'm digging it

>>51200981
You can just make their drones have an AV without changing all the other drones.
>>51200925
List is illegal, Primaris Psyker cannot fill mandatory HQ slot. Using an Astropath from Imperial Agents and replacing Veterans with Storm Troopers is probably your best best. It'll mean you can't include Ogryns unless you take their formation from the Cadia expansion (the old one), but I guess it doesn't really matter since it's all just theoritical anyways.

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This isn't as much as I was expecting a person to spend to start, but this is still pretty pricey.

should I add / remove anything?

>>51201001
> no drones
Well in that contradicts some fluff
Plus the ghost keel gets its stealth plus shrouded from the drones. Also forgeworld would take forever to follow suite meaning that the riptide variants would just get used instead.
>system where drones can be targeted seperately
This just over complicates the entire model and would be a pain in the ass.

>>51201056
Get rid of all paints bundles, they're crap
Figure out the main colour scheme you want and pick up the Base + Wash + Layer + Lighter Layer for each

Maybe a texture paint as well for your bases

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>>51200463
Do you have any other choice as a Nid player? I hope that 8e will change this

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>>51201056
Good choice, but you probably don't need that many brushes. I use a small artificer, a medium base brush, a medium dry brush and a cheap brush for texture paint.

>>51200981
Didn't older editions had mixed AV and T models in a same unit.

Or just not make freaking Stormsurges or Ripited so bloody cheap for what is does. Like new Celestine she is a hard as fuck to kill models, but she is unique and rather bad beside being a hard as fuck. DISTRACTION CELESTINE.

Anyone that says otherwise is fucking stupid.

That is the problem with the Riptide, Stormsurges and Wraithknights they are way too cheap for what they do, too hardy and you can have more than one.

>>51201056
Drop the brushes and the essentials. Go buy cheaper and better/equivalent products at a local LGS or hobby shop. The paints set is okay, but only if you want to just follow their paint scheme to the letter.

>>51201071
It's better than units that are clearly walkers being treated as monstrous creatures. There is no reason why the Ghostkeel's stealth can't be included in its own profile, the whole point of drones is carrying special equipment that a firewarrior/pathfinder can't carry, like shields and heavy weapons.

On a big suit like the Riptide or Ghostkeel, that could just be inside the suit.

>>51201024

Looks good to me! Just need a backstory and you're good to go.

>>51201056
>hazardous items in your order
???

>>51201092
I know 4th edition did, but it just randomly allocated the hits between the armor and toughness.

>>51201113
Do you not see that deadly, double-bladed assault knife?

>>51201056
Don't pick these small shitty paints. I made the same mistake when I bought these bundles for AoS. Just follow the color scheme but buy bigger paints at LGS.

>>51201054
>>51201105
Now its legal,right? CCS is here to represent the Main Officer and the Astropath with their bodyguards. Sucks you cant take the kroot without the blue guys though.

Now all thats left is crying becasue getting those models will take me like 3 years since I just started an IG army ;-;

>>51201015
Serious question, why not?

>>51201053
You could also take the armoured shield formation
one squad of guard infantry with a leman russ, could be useful as an escort squad, especially with the cover save the squad gets for being near the russ.

>>51201113
clippers

>>51201115
Back in 3rd Tau drones took the T of the model they join. Just make them take the AV of the walker.

The solution are so fucking simple.

>>51201056
Don't buy directly from GW, get your 20% discount and buy more plastic coke.

>>51201113
apparently more than one paint set isn't allowed

>>51201094
I'm not particularly creative & this is my first time doing something like this, I figured sticking to the starter would be a good idea.

>>51201077
>>51201125
I have no idea what gamestore in Edinburgh sells paints + stuff like this, would the local games workshop?

>>51200866
Also let's you take 4 more Melta guns

>>51201144
It'd be better to make actual dedicated vehicle drones.

>>51201149
>The GW
>http://www.6s2hit-theshop.com/
Literally just used the GW store finder

>The average Celt IQ

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>>51201132
Oh fuck, I forgot the pic.

I am confused. On my computer it says the Brute shield gives bullgryn a 5++ against overwatch and in close combat, but on my phone it says it just gives a 5++ and doesn't specify so I assume it means all the time. I've also seen batreps where people play it as 5++ all the time. Does anyone know which is correct?

>>51201176
I looked at them earlier, but they didn't seem to have any paints in any of the pictures, So I figured they stuck to board games. i'm sorry friend :(

>>51201182
Says a straight 5++ in the scan.

>>51201136
Yea like the commissars trusted bodyguards

I'm thinking about taking as much camo netting as possible and sneaky beeki stuff like that to get the guerrilla vibe down pat.

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Triumvirate box is pretty sweet, lads.

You get a box sleeve,
Box with great art on it (see pic 2/2)
An Art Card
Instructions, models, bases and a plastic container for the sprus

>>51200853
Necrons, Space Marines and Tau all encourage fluffy somewhat varied armies through formations. It's perhabs a little too repettetive to have base formation + 1/2 aux formations, but it's a lot better than 5 Flyrants, 5 Spores and whatever people fill the rest of their try-hard Nid lists with nowadays.

>>51201188
I know it could be a waste of time but you can always pop into the stores

Since you're UK though i'll hit you up with the best shop in the country, if you don't mind waiting for delivery https://www.darksphere.co.uk/

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>>51201205

2/2, this is incredible, I want a decent picture of this...

>>51201103
Yes it could, though GW would then have to redo the sprue kit and find another use for the models, which GW is probably too lazy to do, also forgworld takes even longer to do anything.
>>51201092
I already know how to cost fix and balance the riptide.
1. increase cost to 225
2. Ion accelerator costs 25 points
3. You cannot select the same nova reactor bonus two turns in a row i.e. turn one 3++, turn two ripple fire, turn three 3++.
4. No riptide wing
5. Ion accelerator range is now 30"
6. Allow purchase of VRT for 20 points (makes the shielded missile drones worth a damn)

>>51201144
I like this solution, it's simple and effective

>>51201202
Here's another one:
Rampart detachment A PCS leads two 5-manlet Bullgryn squads.
Bonuses: Fearless, Fear, Counter-Attack, and +1 to cover for anyone covered even partially by the formation, combine with camo cloaks for 2+ saves. The bullgryns can be hired meat shields with the PCS being their handlers, give the PCS some plasma/melta for a hammer + anvil formation in one.

>>51201149
Edinburgh has something like 480 000 population - there must be any game store other than GW.
>I'm not particularly creative & this is my first time doing something like this, I figured sticking to the starter would be a good idea.
Then look at the paint names and pick same but in bigger pods. Believe me, this 3ml paints are enough but only for 5-6 models so you would not have much fun with them.

You can buy clippers and glue at any model-store. You will also need a knife to remove lines and shit so essentials are not a good pick for newbie

>>51199735
Fuck Bikes.

>>51201182
Im looking at it right now in my codex
>Confers a 5+ invulnerable save in close combat (including against overwatch) and can re-roll To Wound rolls when resolving Hammer of Wrath Hits

In CC only.

>>51200149
Too bad it wasn't joke painting.

>>51200398
Celestine is good enough as she is anon.

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>>51201201
I see that too, but the other copy I have is the one where someone took camera photos of the codex.
>>51201234
That's what I thought, but this is why I was confused. The bottom photo is from the "freshest rules" epub file.

Hi anons.
A few days ago someone claimed that Dark Sphere are a bit shitty since they declare part of their income as charity as well as tax evasion. Has anybody got any info/source on that?

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>>51201268

>>51201266
I have the physical copy in my hands just to confirm what I said.

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>>51201266
>>51201201
>>51201234
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Astra_Militarum_EN.pdf

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>>51201134
>Serious question, why not?

I just don't like formations. I want the freedom to use the units I like. Not the units games workshop want to sell more of.

It's my opinion that formations aren't really in the spirit of the game. They are fine in competitive play, but can totally wreck a casual game, where one person brings a fluffy army, and the other brings a Riptide wing.

>>51201290
Thanks for the clear up.

So, is Belisarius Cawl the de-facto boss of the AdMec right now, disregarding the Fabricator-General? Though let's be honest, that guy is barely a proper AdMec Magos anyway. Way too much flesh left, way too little metal and a few dozen robot tentacles too few as well.

>>51201229
Don't be so sure, I'm in Glasgow and there's really only one other shop that deals with wargames at all, stocking a neglected, half full vallejo stand. Best we have is a couple of clubs that let out halls & lodges to game in.

>>51201149
The Edinburgh GW is pretty good though, talk to Ewan if you can, he'll talk you through painting well and doesn't push sales.

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>>51201205
>>51201212
That looks awesome anon. I foolishly went to GW this morning, thinking I would be able to grab it off the shelf. All copies sold 10 minutes after the shop opened. So, I had to order it in, like a chump.

>>51200056
The wording of the rules.

Space Marines, for example, specifically allow you to exchange one weapon to buy a relic, so all the players exchanging two weapons were cheating.

>>51201292
Also just directly nerfs every unit that can't be used inside of a Formation. For example, there's barely ANY incentive to use Crusader squads over Tacticals in almost all circumstances, since the benefit of getting to use a LRC as a dedicated transport hardly makes up for not being able to use any broken formation.

>>51201224
I guess bullgryns would be fairly easy to convince to secede from the imperium. Thanks for the ideas anon :D if you think of anything else just let me know

>>51201292
If GW wants to sell more of a unit, they can always jdt make that unit OP on its own.

You can still build cheesy lists without formations and fluffball lists with them.

>>51201290
That actually makes that combo worth it. Only in close combat was shit, but 4+ and 5++ with str 7 hits are pretty dope. Not worth 60 points at all, but still neat.

>>51201329

Sorry mate, it's going to be worth the wait though

>>51201179
List appears to be legal now. Although you really should split up the Vendettas. You also don't really need the Inquisitor as such, having an IG commander represent your rogue trade is perfectly acceptable. If you do stick with the Inquisitor I would take an Ordo Xenos instead, it makes more sense to me.

You could use the Chapter Approved rules for Kroot, alternatively you could proxy an Ethereal as a Kroot and call him the Master Shaper. The Allied Advance Cadre is another option, it requires 4 Kroot units but sadly also 2 Vespid units which have the distinctly Tau weapons and also don't really ally with anyone that doesn't put mindworms into their brains.

>>51201350
They aren't tourney competitive. But for friendly games they're perfectly worthwhile as walking cover.

>>51201333
Counterpoint, the wording of the current SM relic swap is essentially identical to the wording of the original Crimson Slaughter codex, which was explicitly intended to allow multiple relics.

In reality, there is no rhyme or reason to the Relic restriction. Just GW being a bunch of morons, as usual.

>>51201292
>but can totally wreck a casual game, where one person brings a fluffy army, and the other brings a Riptide wing.
If you understand that theres a difference between casual play and tournament play then how are formations the problem? It's on the players not the rules at that point.

Yes some formations are stronger then others, but same with normal units. If you cannot balance out a game between players that would be the first and only problem IMO. If Timmy only wants to run Riptides he only gets games against tournament lists. Limiting yourself despite others being fine with it seems like pride more then anything.

>>51201345
Indoctrinated Ogryn are actually the opposite.

They believe in the Imperium and the Emperor in the same way that a child thinks they are right. It's an unquestioning belief that is almost impossible to shatter.

>>51201373
The restriction is in the full wargear list.

>>51201345
You thought about a wyrdvane psykers? Like the Commissar thought he needs to use the warp to suceed in leaving the imperium.

>>51201361
I want my Rouge to be pimping and blinging, thats why Im using inquisitor models. But yeah, a Xenos makes more sense.Might proxy a shaper as a ethearal,that sounds good.


>>51201378
Its pretty easy to make ogryn to worship chaos, just say its an diffrent aspect of the Emprah.

>>51201205
Does that thing fit into a standard Eastpak backpack? Gonan go and pick mine up in a bit and don't want it to be damaged having to cram it in.

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>>51201343
That is true. But my advice to anyone is to just use the units you like. Fuck winning if it means you don't even get to use the models you want. It's a game where we push little plastic soldiers around on a table. Win or lose, as long as it was fun, who cares?

>>51201399
Don't bother replying if you aren't actually bothering to read and comprehend what's being said.

>>51201314
last time I was in the edin GW, it was pretty small and a lot of the stock was on the walls - I couldn't see much paint supply, but i'm willing to guess I just didn't see it / remember it. I'll give it another go, though. thanks :)

>>51201368
Yeah definitely. I love how they look with the slab shields. Power mauls seem more appealing now that I've seen the FAQ.

>>51201413
>tfw your constant losses in SM mirror-matches are barely fun anymore

It really hurts being hated by GW, you know.

>>51201425
Yeah I like to just put one on the Bone'ead.

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>>51201347
I'm also not a fan of taking units just because they are powerful. It's obvious when someone is doing it. I try to take an army that suits the fluff and the artwork. There is no sport in stomping someone with strong units, just for the sake of it. It achieves nothing, unless you like ruining the game for others, and looking like a total cock jockey in the process.

>>51201448
Good call. I used some spare parts to convert an old ogryn to one with brute shield and maul. I will do that too, make him the bone ead.

>>51201409

I don't know how big that backpack is but I just measured it for you.

It's 30.5cm (tall) x 22.5cm (wide) x 6.3cm (deep)

>>51201429
if you are doing mirror matches, its you who sucks

>>51201402
Yea psykers are always fun, I'll definitely try and include some of those fellas

>>51201476
>the point
>your head

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>>51201377
The thing is, handled correctly, formations are a great way to balance the game for competitive play. But it doesn't seem like GW is doing this. Because where are the formations to bring tyranids and orks to the same levels as eldar and tau?

Perhaps it is pride? When I win, I want it to be with my favourite units, in a closely matched game. Not a stupid, one sided game, that is over after the first turn due to all the cheese I was able to find in my codex.

>>51201290
Aw dang. Didn't know.

>>51201414
>Don't bother replying if you aren't actually bothering to read and comprehend what's being said.
This is, politely, what I was trying to tell you.

The current Space Marines Codex has the restriction listed in the wargear purchase list. Crimson Slaughter, despite listing some wargear, does not have a wargear purchase list. As a supplement, it uses the Chaos Space Marine wargear purchase list, which also still has the restriction.

Crimson Slaughter detachments are, by nature of the wargear purchase list in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, limited to one Relic per model, except where individual relics explicitly allow you to bypass the restriction.

I'm telling you this because you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the restriction is noted at the top of the Relics List. While that would be intelligent, intuitive game-rules design, that isn't the case. If you have been reading *only* that part, where it says "one per army," but skipping over the restriction on the wargear purchase list, then you've been inadvertently cheating. Even with Crimson Slaughter.

tl;dr: The Relics List and the Wargear List are two different lists, dipshit. Relic restrictions show up in the Wargear purchase list in 9/10 codices.

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>>51199700
OFFICAL TRAITOR LEGIONS POWER RANKING

1 Night Lords
2 Word Bearers
3 Iron Warriors
4 Black Legion
5 Alpha Legion
6 Emperors Children
7 Death Guard
8 World Eaters
9 Thousand Sons

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>>51201429
I don't play space marines, and never had a mirror match. But good bait, anyway.

>>51201647
But Anon, Alpha Legion are actually loyalist.

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>>51199700
What do we think of this Imperial Fists list?

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>>51201658
What's A Lpha?

>>51201665
Looks good anon. 8/8

Who will you be fighting?

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>>51201632
Stop being a patronizing fuck and pull your head out of your ass.

The original printing of Crimson Slaughter has the same relic wording, based on the same Chaos Space Marine codex, and it was clearly intended to allow multiple relics per model.

>>51200565
Make an elite low model pure rape army. I'm not sure, but you might be able to run the Death Co. strike force with what you have. If you can, you should, as well as the sanguinary guard formation. Use the vets as assault marines, put all the dreads in pods. Paint up some tacticals for objective holding and you're done.

Too lazy to make an actual list.

>>51201647
But, Anon, Thousand Sons have the best shooting in the game, coupled with having amazingly powerful and point-efficient psykers in every unit. They're easily one of the top 3 armies in the game. Maybe if you actually played, you'd realize how amazingly powerful even the "humble" Rubric Marine squad is.

>>51201514
That should easily fit, thanks.

>>51200856
I think that was the joke, anon.

>>51201647
>6 Emperors Children
>7 Death Guard
>8 World Eaters
>9 Thousand Sons

Clever

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>>51201739

No worries

>>51201734
I... what?

>>51201592
>When I win, I want it to be with my favourite units, in a closely matched game. Not a stupid, one sided game, that is over after the first turn due to all the cheese I was able to find in my codex.
I dont see how formations exclude this from happening. Or why you think the two are mutually exclusive. Maybe give it a try and stop expecting the horror stories from /tg/.

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>>51201647
>Night Lords at the top
>Not Death Guard

Hahahaha nigga hwat

>>51201517
>fluffy Black Templar lists with Crusaders and without Skyhammer bullshit
>against a full Ultrasmurf Gladius with pods and Rhinos out the ass

I'm not claiming that I'm all that good at the game, but it's not solely because of me.

>>51201762
Please look at the list with a bit longer thought.

>>51201751
>AP3 Bolters
>every unit has a psyker with access to an amazing, universally useful, warp charge efficient discipline
>built in 4++ saves that might as well be permanently 3++ rerolling 1's
Get good scrub. Everyone who actually plays the game realizes the extreme power of the Thousand Sons.

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>>51201734
Luckily they are some of the best looking models available. Makes you not feel so bad when you lose.

>>51201798
Magnus is kinda crap. Way, way too big, both in relation to every other model in the range and as a model to actually have to carry around to stores and tables. The armor doesn't really match with the rest of the Sons, and both sets of horns are just too much.

>>51201798
>Makes you not feel so bad when you lose.
Perhaps the bitterness of the hype is still left over but fuck that. I've waited so fucking long for the TS times in the spotlight and we end up with that shit? Fuck them so hard.

>>51201813
>both in relation to every other model in the range and as a model to actually have to carry around to stores and tables.
1. He is supposed to be fuckhueg. Primarchs were already almost twice the size of space marines and deamon primarchs only got bigger. Any smaller would have been weird.
2. Magnetize the wings and dont stick him into 4" tall base unless you magnetize that, too. Makes transportation so much easier.

Did anyone watch the Admech vs Tzeentch battlereport yesterday? Had to leave on turn 1(?), just after the screamers charged the knight and blew it up.

How did the match end?

>>51201846
I decided not to watch it when the Daemons guy was running 4 squads of 10 horrors. I mean why? who is that dumb.

>>51201831
He could lose a third of his height and still tower over everything else in the CSM codex.

Those wings are way too big and unwieldy to easily magnetize.

>>51201798
Ahriman and the Exalted Sorc are some of my favourite new models. Not so hot on Magnus but the new LoC also looks amazing, hopefully the new fatey looks good too.

>>51201859
With full commands!

..Yeah. In GW streams they almost always do a bit silly things with their armies that are not totally optimized.

>>51201232
What makes you say that?

>>51201875
Its not about having a fully optimized list but in an army thats all about the psychic phaze, not giving your warp batteries with a special rule that is for that exact reason the one extra unit I know youre taking the piss.

>>51200934
Well that kinda sucks.

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>>51201874
Those two kits are amazing, especially the sorcerers. I think you either love, or hate Magnus. I think it's the best model to date, but it will probably be dethroned by the new keeper of secrets.

>>51201914
The new fateweaver has been leaked but its in shit quality in the /AOSG/ >>51201299

But yes the new Lord of Change looks great. The new fateweaver and LoC formation looks better, and rulewise is better then Magnus too IMO.

>>51201794
Yeah well
>Bloodthirsters
>Powerful
>So, and army of Bloodthirsters is the best idea ever.


You should be mentioning the points cost, because you can take objectives and rain ap2 death for far less, the discipline is not that good, the psykers are really expensive for what they do and its a shitty tax and the 3++ rerolling 1 is only if you match the ridiculous and boring requeriments. And for the 4++ as every overpriced unit ever they die to quantity over quality.

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>>51201702
Yes, GW dangled an illegal carrot in front of you.

Krannon is not proof that the original Codex is intended to allow multiple relics, he's proof that the supplement was intended to have changed the wording.

>>51201953
He's taking the piss mate.

>>51201955
>51201702

You do realice that the wording has been accepted for years... but it could eprfectly mean that you can change one weapon for one artifact so if you have two weapons you can take two, was a lot of arguing and then CS suplement showed how you were suposed to take several of them? And now this.

I myself dont know what is what was suposed to be, but I can see how that wording in the codex and that Kranon shows the RAI.

>>51201955
>supplement doesn't change the wording at all
>supplement thinks you can take multiple relics
Fuck off. RaI is clear as day, and the vast majority of the playerbase thought RaW agreed. It wasn't until after the FAQ that you revisionist fucks started pretending this has always been clear.

>>51201986
Replace one, not replace one or two.

Even if you *could* replace two, Kranon would be illegal.
Kranon's not even in the current version. That image has been removed.

>Majority of the playerbase is powergaming fucktards advocating illegal loadouts
No shit.

>>51201992
I had literally never taken more than one relic on any model. Because to my group it had always been clear on the wording. It was a unanimous decision.

A model can exchange ONE weapon for ONE relic. As opposed to what? 2 weapons for 1 relic? 1 weapon for 2 relics?

The meaning is clear and has been clarified in the FAQ, each character can hold ONE relic.

Unless you're some fag Tau player who GW specifically mentioned can do it.

>>51199735
Lol that will get blasted off the table. Everyone forgets death guard csm marines still run like bitches when they have to take any kind of leadership.

>>51200218
That is ork level shenanigans......

>Laysander
>strongest vanilla SM melee character, not usable for anything other than fucking things in melee
>230 points

>Belisarius Cawl
>generic HQ with relevant melta weaponry and support rules
>200 points
>destroys Laysander in 1-3 turn rotations and walks out almost unharmed

My Imperial Fist friend is already calling it cheese and I know that it's in no way fair but i really want to use Celestine or Cawl. I kind of feel cheap.

>>51202027
Sure, you can replace 1 Weapon with 1 Relic. There's nothing saying you can't replace a second weapon with a second relic, and the unit entries that grant access to the Chaos Artefacts all say that you can take items (plural) from the Chaos Artefacts section. .

>>51202026
Yes, you can trade 1 for 1. Nothing saying you can't trade an additional 1 for an additional 1.

The point is that Kranon was intended to be a legal build with current wording. At the absolute least, this is proof that RaI was for CSM to be able to take multiple relics.

>>51200218
New faq forbides one unit using the same power twice.

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Tentatively the list I want to go with for my Death Guard Vectorium

>>51202052
>walks out almost unharmed
Yeah, Cawl and Celestine are both retardedly durable. It's a shame to see that, rather than try to reign in the rampant power creep, they've decided to just make some characters impossible to kill.

>>51202027
Many codices have Relics with individual exceptions that allow you to take more than one.

Astra Militarum Relics don't have a limit-per-model, but some relics are individually exclusive to certain types of HQ. Near as I can tell, this applies to Cadia, too.

Tau Empire have no limit per model in the purchasing of relics. Furthermore, Farsight Enclaves models can choose from the Farsight relics list as well as the Tau Empire list, meaning that certain models can take up to 14 Signature Systems.

>>51202048
Hey if we can have looted wagons why can't we have looted rules

>>51202062
Probably just put a MFF mek in there

> Get gate of infinity
> Get Da Jump
I now have a ~20 strong unit of 3++ 2W potentially fnp dudes jumping (twice) across the board each turn with a solid amount of mental dakka and reasonable melee output

>>51202062
Even if they could all cast the same blessing (and they should be able to), you can't stack the same Blessing.

>>51202058
There is nothing saying you CAN replace more than 1 weapon for 1 relic. It just says you can replace 1 weapon for a relic.

If it had said, "you can replace any weapons on the model for relics at the appropriate points cost". Then I would be fine, but as it is, it says you can exchange ONE.

>>51200615
REPEAT AFTER ME. MSU.

>>51202064
Are you trying to immediately lose? Did special and heavy weapons bully you as a child? Are you being paid by the boltgun lobby?

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>>51200373
>I mean, is there a risk that if I buy something now, it could be useable only as dust-collector on shelf in next six months?

N-no... of course not, why would you think minis would become dust collectors

>>51199253

Supa Kannon was updated in IA: Apocalypse and in the FW Dred Mob 6th Ed. update to Primary Weapon 1.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Ork_Dread_Mob_Army_List_Update.pdf

>>51202067
They really should've made Cawl's regen ability only trigger after a 4+ check or something. Maybe Celestine's Geminae revive on a 4+ for reviving the first one to die and 2+ when trying to revive the second one/when she's alone.

>>51202084
The unit entries allow items (plural) to be taken from the Chaos Artefacts section of the wargear list. RaW justification.

Kranon existed. RaI justification.

>>51202093
Fuck me... I didn't notice that

>>51202067

Has Celestine's new stats been seen? Man, now I'm really curious.

Mind you 'Impossible to kill' is kinda Celestine's entire theme. I mean, one of her recent versions literally didn't die unless she was off the board when the game ended.

>>51202067
Crawl at least has an Achilles heel, good luck if you don't have ap2 instant death though!

Chances are you were just a meme army anyway.

>>51202098
I'm not really sure why Celestine needs magical regenerating bodyguards anyways. She already has "literally resurrects herself" as a gimmick.

Cawl shouldn't have gotten any magical regen power at all. Just IWND and maybe FNP. Not every unit needs a ton of super special rules that just mimic rules that already exist but are a bit better.

For example, Warpflame shouldn't exist. Soul Blaze should just be a more meaningful rule.

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So /40kg/ ive been sitting on some aome marine models for the last ten years and have decided now thatvibhave the free time and money, im gonna strip amd remake my marines.

I have:
Lysander
3rd ed termie chaplain
2 powersword captains
30 tacticals with 1 melta, 1 flamer and 3 plasma guns
4 each of lascannon, heavy bolter and missle launcher devastator marines
2 each of multimelta and plasmacannon devs
8 old death company marines (no jump packs though)
6 assault terminators 3 with TH/SS and 3 LCs
6 vanilla terminators, 1 AC and a launcher
1 AoBR dreadnaught
1destructor pattern predator
1 whirlwind (convertable into a rhino)

Do i have an adequate array of troops to start playing?
Im totally gonna get sternguard and more transporta, but what else should i buy?

>>51202058
Except for the part where it says you can trade ONE weapon.

Even trading two, Kranon would have still been illegal, as he uses four pieces of wargear. Again, RAI may have been fro Kranon to be legal, but his presence doesn't indicat that CSM RAI is multiple relics. It's more likely to indicate that RAI CS should have included an amendment that allowed multiple relics to be taken.

>>51201292
wait, what's the other army? I get that the fluffy army is a riptide wing, but what are you complaining about?

>>51202072
I'm pretty sure the restrictions on relics are retroactive. It's only where a codex says you can take more than 1 to a character is it allowed.

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>>51202113

>>51202131
Cawl has it since all Tech-Priests do it. A normal one only 1 wound on a 2+. D3 on a 4+ would've been fine for their big boss.

>>51202085
So, 6x 5 man squads?
Wouldnt they suffer in cc though?

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>>51202113
>>51202140

>>51202115
Actually, as a Thousand Sons/psyker spam CSM player, I usually have access to at least one ID AP2 at initiative dude. Often on a Jetbike to boot.

I dislike Cawl because he's a typical example of GW's shitty rules.

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>>51202064
Fixed

>>51200441
Even at release it wasn't good. Whatever price drops & minor rules improvements Cruddace made to it, he overrode by forgetting some crucial element to it. That lazy know-nothing faggot knew it was shit then, let alone when the Christ-awful Orkcurion hit.

I hope his doctorate gets revoked, his cat dies, and he gets hit non-fatally by a bus in the same day his boyfriend breaks up with him.

>>51202150
>>51202140

Thanks a lot!

>>51202151
I know.

The idea that ap2 instant death is becoming an increasingly common thing to counter the insane bullshit coming out is distressing.

>>51202131
Well he would have been able to repair himself on a 2+ anyway if he had been given the same repair rule as the Tech Dom and he kinda needs FNP as re-rolling it is his Warlord Trait and all other Admech characters get it.

And the reason characters are getting harder kill is that there are so many things that can reliably cause a ton of wounds on models regardless of their Toughness or save. To counter this special characters are being given ways to recover wounds because they have kind of hit the cap on how tough they can be without being literally unkillable to some units (If they made Cawl T8+ for instance.)

>>51202135
>Except for the part where it says you can trade ONE weapon.
We have two RaW bits pertaining to the number of relics in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. One says that you can trade 1 weapon for 1 relic. It never says that you only have 1 relic, only that you trade 1 for 1. Then, we have a second RaW bit that states you can take items (plural) from the Chaos Artefacts section. RaW, you can take multiple relics.

Kranon is proof that Crimson Slaughter were intended to be able to take multiple relics, and there's nothing to imply this was supposed to be different than normal. RaI, you can take multiple relics.

>>51202183
You could argue that the opposite is happening, when something can hit at initiative with a lot of attacks and instant kill something on a 6, expensive models have to get tougher.

>>51202153
I wont comment on the unit choices directly, but even in terms of wargear, if you aren't going to have a lot more heavy weapons you need way more melta in all your squads. Heavy armor is going to completely destroy your army. The Plague Colony in particular is really expensive and doesn't actually do anything right now.

Regarding the Havocs you shouldn't mix weapons. Autocannons are the generally recommended choice. You can pick up a pack of five autocannons for £13 from Forgeworld. Which is generally cheaper than the havocs box with all the cheap ways to get normal CSM these days.

>>51202183
It hasn't become more common at all. Psykers with Force Weapons have been a part of the game for ages now, and they're far and away the most common source of AP2.

>>51201268
What is wrong with evading taxes in this day and age? It's not like the money is spent reasonably by the government.

Over here, the healthcare infrastructure is crumbling but the govt is burning money on logo design competitions and museums so "aquintances" can maintain their business through le guaranteed contracts.

UK doesn't seem any better either.

The less taxes you pay the more those who leech on the system suffocate.

>>51202105
It allows them to purchase multiple items (plural), and then gives you a collection of lists to purchase from.

But even looking at it your way, Dimension Key and Scrolls of Magnus don't replace weapons. They have individual exceptions, so you can have up to three relics on a model, as long as those are two of them. So, IF we were to pretend that the individual unit entries allowed multiple purchases from the Relics list, it'd only be to allow for those exceptions.

>>51202208
The plural of taking items from the Artifacts list is saying that you can take more than 1 of the relics in your army. Otherwise you might think you were limited to having only 1 of them at all.

>>51202183
>increasingly common thing
Not really? It's mostly just force weapons, which have been around forever.

>>51202216
***source of AP2 Instant Death

D is becoming more common, but it's still largely confined to Super Heavies, one-of relics, and a couple of codexes.

>>51202150
...Interesting to say the least.

Zealot could be cute for certain shenanigans.

What happens if you attach an Iron Priest to a unit and cast Religious Fanatacism on it? Does the ENTIRE UNIT gain Furious Charge or just the Iron Priest? Counterattack isn't the issue since it's a "at least one of" ability.

Devout Determination is not bad. Your Ravenwing Knights need to get the charge off!

Pious Grit looks evil with Grav Devestators. Thank goodness the Saintly Blessing takes place at the start of the turn. It could help a Grav Skyhammer reposition for a turn though after they've set up, assuming the foe was stupid enough to leave said Skyhammer standing...

>>51202228
Bzzt, reread what I wrote. I'm talking about individual unit entries.

>>51202227
That's not how grammar works. A Chaos Lord (for example) is given permission to take items (plural) from the Chaos Artefacts list. The Chaos Artefacts list itself tells him that he can trade 1 for 1. It never states he can only ever trade for 1, only that he trades 1 for 1.

>>51202241

Yeah, most of them are honestly better on non-SOB models than SOB ones. Still, that may change if they get a new codex.

>>51202241
I would say that only the Iron Priest gets it but I'm no rules expert.

>>51202150
It's interesting that they are trying to make the unit-type relevant again. It was super important when CAD was the only way to play, but in an age where many players just go straight to other detachments or formations, force-org type meant almost nothing.

>>51201766
And that's the problem, Gladius is pretty much the fluffiest list you can run as marines, but bbecause horrible balance, one flufflist stomps another hard.

Anybody who says he "plays for fun" or that you should "make the balance with your opponent" honestly needs to get run over by a truck

Have we gotten scans of the new FoC formations yet? I kind of want to buy the book but if they're no better for my guard than a CAD I feel like I'll we wasting money like I did with Cadia.

>>51201292
>>51201413
>>51201476

M8, what's good for the goose can be good for the gander. If those other players are being douchelords, show them the error of their ways and after you mulch their shit with Canoptek Harvest & Destroyer Cult, explain to them why you did it & why you won't in the future.

>>51202241
>>51202255
Hmm. New FAQs said something relating to this that units that contain different choices counts as all those choices. So with IG conscripts with Lord Comissar and (old) Iron Priest would be HQ/Elite/Troops.

But I cant remember how it was worded in the FAQ and what instances were they talking about. Better check out it yourself, I'm not betting my head on this.

>>51202241
??

Religious Fanaticism is a unit buff. I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you mean Heroic Zeal?

>>51202150
>Fanatical Fortitude stacks with all other FNP
That's some next level faggotry. First Orks get their stacking denied entirely. Then CSM get partial stacking. And now Armies of the Imperium get another carte-blanche source of stackable FNP.

>>51202264
Gladius without double-demi company isn't really anything to complain about. It's once they get to add a couple hundred points in ObSec metal boxes full of Grav that problems start.

>>51202265
>Have we gotten scans of the new FoC formations yet?
Yes

>>51202282
>carte-blanche source of stackable FNP.
Only on Troops and ICs that join them.

>>51202282

6+ FNP for a singe turn in the battle. I'd not honestly call it the most impressive part of her as a model.

>>51202265
Well you can take a Castellans of the Imperium detachment which is 2-4 HQs, at least 4 troops with no limit, 0-6 of everything else except LoW which are 0-3.

You need to have at least 1 unit from a different codex (Take an Inquisitor) but in return you get respawning troops units on a 5+ and hatred for everybody.

>>51202285
Does anyone have them to share?

>>51202306
http://is.4chan.org/tg/1484112599063.jpg

And that is the limits on what units can be taken (Don't try any, "Buh-but my HQ changes the unit type of this unit. Shut it, no substitutions)

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>>51202248
Yeah, it says that you may purchase items. From X lists.

But how do you purchase items from the Chaos Artefacts list? Maybe if we then loot at the list.... Oh, by replacing explicitly one weapon. And one may argue that I can optionally also purchase the dimension keys and Scrolls of Magnus, although maybe I can still only have one, but they allow me to keep my weapon.

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I'm happy with this list.
>Grand Host has Crusader so they run FASTER.
>Warband has Obsec, bonus Boons.
>Lord took Tzeentch for Disc, Magnus for secondary utility/my Warband has 2 Psykers.
>Sorcerer took Palanquin for extra wounds versus Perils. Lore of Nurgle has some kickass buffs too; Cultists with Poison anyone? S6/T6 you-know-whats?
>Cultists are Fearless from formation. Zealot when the Helbrute pops.
>Lord and Sorcerer join Cultists, making them Obsec AND Crusader.
>Assorted MSU components for earlygame pressure/board control.
>Marines with mixed loadout for flexibility. For shooting before assault/CC, the Bolter Marine gets grenade duty.
>Reliably summon 2 units per turn, or can toss out blessings/buffs.

Plan to use it this weekend.

>>51202296
>>51202293
That's not the issue. The issue is that some factions get to stack their FNP, some factions get to stack their FNP with restrictions, and some factions don't get to stack their FNP at all. It doesn't even make sense from any sort of balance or fluff standpoint, as Orks would be the ones with stackable FNP in both of those cases.

>>51202311
>>51202320
http://is.4chan.org/tg/1484112532642.jpg

And that is the detachment I described above. No fort slot so no ADL for guard.

>>51202278
The Iron Priest is a Space Wolf Independent Character that counts as an Elite choice. There's assorted FAQ fuckery that a unit counts as "all the types" of all the characters joined to it. So a Space Marine Command Squad with Smashfucker is both an HQ choice AND an Elite choice. This usually mostly matters for stuff like Deathwatch Mission Tactics, etc. ("Reroll to-hit versus Troops" or so), but the rules could lead to...unusual interactions?

>>51202325
Orks will be terrible until they get a new book, which is hopefully soon. Whining about stuff like this is just pointless.

>>51202296
Becomes 4+ FNP for Iron Hands in a Fist of Medusa Formation. Becomes 3+ FNP for any unit that has Endurance cast on it.

The fact it's only for a single turn is the main thing that keeps it from going into OP territory.

>>51202322
only two helbrutes

it's like you hate fun

>>51202241
>>51202150
>Pious Grit

Thinking about it, it may not be as practical as it first sounds. it happens only RIGHT AT THE START of your turn so before deepstrikes or moving so your dev squads have to be right there next to her.

She can't bestow it any squad coming out of a drop pod or vehicle so they would have had to have been on the table for the enemy to shoot the turn before.

>>51202293
>>51202296
It's the principle, ma melanin-enriched compatriots.

Orks lost charge out of DS, Imperium gained it.
Tyranids lost infinite swarm, Imperium gained it.
Orks lost invulnerable saves for unstackable FNP, Imperium has limitless X++ saves & free-stack FNP
Necron Monoliths lost Melta-resistance, LRs kept it
SMS gain crazy-ass new psychic powers, no-one else gets dick until CSM did

>>51202321
It has an OR there. "May take items from the Chaos Artefacts sections of the wargear list" is a valid reading of that statement. It explicitly states that we can take multiple items from the list.

Yes, explicitly replacing one weapon. It doesn't state that you can't replace another weapon with another relic, and the unit entries themselves give us permission to take multiple items from the Artefacts list.

>>51202293
>Only
>ONLY
You just don't get it.

>>51202336
I can see the appeal but as someone who only owns guard it feels like a waste. Sadly looks like I'm still running CAD for invaluable Obsec.

>>51202346
Everyone on the current rules team hates/doesn't understand Orks.
Even if they got a new book it would just be a shit as the last one if it's the same guys writing it.

Just like how Cruddace got to write two Tyranid codexes.

>>51202372
Take Inquisitor Coteaz as your mandatory brother from another mama and he gives his entire detachment Ob Sec.

>>51202357
Reserves come into play before "start of the turn"abilities kick in.

For instance, Cult Mechanicus can roll in their reserves and then sing Canticle of Omnissiah with now greater amount of units.

Also if there is multiple "start of the turn"-rules happening, controlling player chooses in which sequence they trigger.

>Cawl is accidentally better than a Carnifex in combat
>And OOE
>He's not even a combat hero but a supporting one

Great balance GW. honestly shocked he isn't an MC too

>>51202306

Damn, that's pretty nice looking. Now if only Battle Sisters were a decent Troops choice to take. I suppose they are not terrible by any stretch. Cheaper than going with Marines.

More Battle Sisters than I'm used to taking but far, far from bad. I wonder what would be good to draft from another faction. Maybe something to use that less than steller elite slot? I'm leaning on keeping it as SOB as possible.

Does the respawning ability include designated transports? I'm not 100% sure if they are an upgrade or not. Respawing Repressors would be pretty funny.

>>51202386
Whoah wait. It's Detatchment and not unit? That changes literally everything.

>>51202346
Traitor Legions Emperor's Children got restrictions on their ability to stack FNP (only one interaction gets to stack).

The issue isn't that Orks suck or that Orks wouldn't suck if they got stacking FNP. The issue is that GW arbitrarily lets some sources stack and not others, and that, thus far, it's only been the Imperials that get to stack it. It's shit from a balance perspective, and it's shit from game design perspective, and it's shit from a fluff perspective.

>>51202397
He's got the stats of an MC
He's already ap2 in combat

Making him an MC would only be a downgrade considering he wouldn't be able to join squads.

So... Does the Burning Brand replace a weapon or I can just take it in addition of what the Lord already have?

>>51202397
He actually is more of a combat hero than a support one. He gets 1 ability which buffs others and 3 which buff himself. He's a tank with buffs to allies.

>>51202341
Ah I gotcha. Well, I just glanced through the main FAQ and don't see anything to that effect. In the absence of seeing that specific FAQ entry, I'd say it's pretty clear FC would not be conferred to anyone the Iron Priest had joined.

>>51202405
That's the big question regarding this rule. There are arguments for and against.

>>51202415
What does the Codex say?

>>51202413
Monstrous Independent Characters exist. O'Vesa from Farsight Enclaves is an Independent Character Riptide for example. Forgeworld adds the Wraithseer as well.

>>51202415
It replaces a weapon. A common trick is to take a Bike Lord and replace the TL Bolter on the Bike with the Brand.

>>51202418
He's a tank that mostly buffs other tanks. BS boosts on Kataphractons can be mean though!

>>51202413
Making him an MC would let him swing his AP2 at Initiative thanks to Smash. Which would also make his Tentacle Hive AP2, which would be pretty horrifying to fight in melee.

He's already super tanky. Even if they didn't give him super special unit joining privileges, he'd be one of the better MC's in the game.

>>51202361
>It's the principle
Yes, that's the part that I'm saying is pointless to whine about. The application of 40k rules have never been consistent.

>>51202397
He is tank/combat hero. He only has greater supporting role in War Convocation where he gives out his Arch-Canticles to whole army.

>>51202456
Triple IWND on Kastelans is insane as well.

Been away for some time so didn't really catch up on the whole Fall of Cadia thing. Can someone update me on this? Did Abbadon actually accomplish something significant?

>>51202468
I'll stop calling out GW on its shit when people stop pretending anything has changed for the better.

>>51202481
cadia exploded and the eye of terror is rapidly expanding as all the pylons are dead

also they retconned that all of his previous black crusades weren't failures, he was just blowing up pylons

>>51202445
Don't have it at hand
>>51202456
Oh, thanks!

>>51202481
Cadia and its pylon network are destroyed. Partly due to Abaddon attacking and bombarding the planet and mostly due to Trazyn "helping" the Imperium.

>>51202481
Nope. Imperials accidentally Cadia. Necron involvement is limited to Trazyn flying around doing shit for the lulz.

The only people happy with FoC are powergamers happy they got a new Imperial superfriends list to play with.

>>51202484
everything surrounding the game has gotten much better

start collecting are bundles with actual discounts

armored assault boxes are terrific

the board games have great bundles of miniatures as well

plastic 30k marines are really cool

the company is talking with their fans, live streaming with their fans, and using their fans instagram pictures on their website

now if only the rules weren't continually sliding into shit

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>>51202361
>Imperium does endless swarm better than tyranids
>Imperium has a much easier time making their swarm fearless
>Imperial psyker overpowers the hive mind and turns it's power against it
>Tau can out-adapt the Tyranids as well as adapt faster than they can
You're welcome

>>51202397
Oh I'm sorry,
Lets put him up against ghaz for a second hey?
Considering Ghaz costs MORE than him:
> mechadendrite hive + canckle or whatever = 0.75 wounds
> Axe does 1.3 wounds
> 2 wounds all together on a 4W character
> Ghaz does less than 1 wound back (around 0.7)
GHAZ DOES LESS WOUNDS, CANT REGENERATE HEALTH, COSTS MORE AND DOESNT BUFF HIS ARMY AS WELL

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HE IS MEANT TO BE A COMBAT CHARACTER REEEEEEEEEE

>>51202497
>>51202495
>>51202488

So the Imperium is gg wp now? That kinda sucks.

>>51202481

He blew up Cadia. On the other hand, it was less 'A victory' for him and more 'A very sore loser flipping the table'. He lost a lot of veterans of centuries of warfare and even his blackstone fortress be brought to be part of it got asploded.

The ending for the Imperium is 'Shit sucks but even now there is hope'.

On the plus side: He singlehandedly managed to ruin thousands of years of racial hatred between the Imperium and various Xenos forces since it ends on 'Maybe the imperium and the Eldar can form a treaty'.

>>51202497

Eh, as a SOB player I was pretty happy with it. I mean, how often does a SOB character get to be center stage in a story and actually get several wins over the opposition?

>>51202497
Abaddon did bombard it with rocks

>>51202497
>The only people happy with FoC are powergamers happy they got a new Imperial superfriends list to play with.

/tg/ is packed full of imperial dickriders that won't want to accept this

>>51202382
There's no way the Ork dex wasn't Cruddace, though.

Redundant, worthless wargear? Check.
Price increases on shit that was already too expensive or mediocre? Check.
Units that can't fulfill their roles? Check.
Subtraction of crucial wargear? Check.
Arbitrary limitations on bonuses & rules that take options from mediocre to awful? Check.
Crunch shits all over fluff? Check.
Classical strengths of army now totally impossible, & even detrimental if you try to play it that way? Check.
Unique hamstrings & rules that only hurt the faction without a helping trade off? Check.
A rule that makes models kill themselves like Crud should? Check.

>>51202521
>So the Imperium is gg wp now?
No. Cadia is. Cadia is important, but it's not the Imperium. Besides, the next Campaign book is about the great alliance of men and elves.

>>51202035
If only they were fearless...

>>51202521
we old school fantasy now, where everyone has to team up to slap chaos back to the warp so we can then go back to killing each other

>>51202522
>On the plus side: He singlehandedly managed to ruin thousands of years of racial hatred between the Imperium and various Xenos forces since it ends on 'Maybe the imperium and the Eldar can form a treaty'.


So the Imperium is no longer Nazis? Holy shit what was GW thinking about when they made this, it sounds incredibly stupid.

>>51202505
>>51202533

Crud's shit-eating grin is the reason the Germans developed a word for "a face in need of punching."

>>51202522
>Eh, as a SOB player I was pretty happy with it. I mean, how often does a SOB character get to be center stage in a story and actually get several wins over the opposition?

AHAHAHAHA, celestine gets a cunt punt and creed has to save her worthless ass

then the eldar have to save her worthless ass

celestine btfo