"Modern" Fantasy world building

>>51026251
>Various non-human races are now integrated into the society and are protected by anti discrimination laws. Low intelligence races (like Orcs) are given help getting ahead through affirmative action and other initiatives.

>>51026657

While primarily kept as slave/pets intially Harpies and goblins were domesticated until they achieved human level intelligence. Many Orcs were utlized to help build the frontier where many decided to rebel and form their own nation.

>>51026657
Orc Male Elf Female couples become the standard in popular media? Safe spaces for martials?

>>51026791

Verily, I wager the Dwarves are responsible.

>>51026251
More seriously, the first thing you have to look at is the various races typically seen in D&D. Do they still exist? If so, how did that happen?

For all the jokes about Orcs and such, the truth is that the typical D&D orc/goblin/kobold/etc is NOT going to end up in a state where they coexist with the other races. Even the 'good' races are going to be challenged in many cases as populations grow and pressure grows from that.

The most likely outcome is that the evil races manage to genocide the 'good' races or the other way around. If you want to include the other races, you need to address why that didn't happen. Or just change the entire background of the race of course - which begs the question of why bothering because they aren't that race any more.

>>51026849

I mean, does it have to be the typical races? Why not come up with something else? Frankly I'm fine with killing them all off and having replaced them with something else.

>>51026251
Because it's awful. This kind of story is always full of sjws and lbgtqqbawtf garbage

If you are advancing your fantasy this far, why not discard fantasy and make science fiction with aliens instead?

>>51026251
>"Jim them bulletes got into the pasture and are eatin' the livestock!"
>Grabs a shotgun and a Bowie knife.
>"God dammit Billy-Bob this'll be the 3 time this month."

>>51026991
Because then you start getting into the unfun space opera shit.

>>51026657
why and how ? Do the "evil" race has been put to slavery, then fought for recognition and freedom ? It may have started by just big metropolis with every races welcomed. Or maybe there is several cities and countries associated with different races. Does race dictate a lot your social statue ? Or is it your wealth ?

Also, do everyone has access to the technology or is it more for the upper class ? Where is your world, technologically speaking, at that moment ?

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For years Airships were little more than flying boats magically held aloft and propelled by a bound elemental, until an enterprising artificer discovered it was more efficient to build a craft with wings that could generate lift with magic only used for propulsion

>>51027129
>starting village is a rural town with a small population
>wizard is the fighters best friend from high school who went to college while fighter helped manage his familys farm
>rogue is traveling to a near by city and wants to make a few bucks before his bus leaves in a couple days because of missing parts
>they meet at a bar to catch up
>find out some feral goblins have been raiding some live stock
>preist in training is passing through to heal a hurt townsfolk and asks if he can help
>all decide to head out and stop this menace

My go-to is that magic ends up being harnessed as a power source. Think about what could be possible if you stop just throwing out fireballs with your ioun stone and instead tap into its raw potential energy to run a city's lights. Arcane batteries are basically my mainstay. And less pleasant societies may even just hook apparatuses up to innate casters to power things.

>>51027264s
>bounded elemental
Really cool idea to bound elemental to object in a "technological world", maybe fire elemental engine or lesser fire spirit-flamethrower ? They can become the basis of energy production. Also mix of water and fire elemental, fighting each other and producing steam ?

>democratized use of necromancy to raise workers for hazardous environments (mines, dangerous machine room...)
>several league against it, mainly conservative clerics and paladins (may also be against technology in general)
>league for the rights of the undead slaves, the intelligent one (or worst, even for the soulless one "they are people ! Don't you see !" )

>>51027475
Yeah my idea was that Eberron style airships eventually gave way to elemental Jets though the airships still exist as passenger craft

My idea would be that devices that require a lot of power would be powered by an elemental that is bound to a containment ring and it's power would be channeled through an array to whatever needed power
Smaller less energy intensive devices would draw power from background mana like mages do

>>51027475
efrit-bounded slot machine

>>51026941
Sort of. Thing is, the more you remove the classic elements of fantasy from the setting the less it is 'classic fantasy gone modern'.

I'm not saying you have to remove the other races, but why they still exist would need to be addressed. I mean, if I understand the OP correctly we are talking modern world with magic. Now consider the total power of say the United States, but with the addition of a likely proportionate amount of magical might on top of that. Then consider a truly genocidal other race that simply will not stop. What happens?

Just address why that hasn't happened, is all I am saying.

>>51026941
Personally I just kill off the Elves and Dwarves and call it done. Their time has passed. Also it leads to archeology expeditions that quickly turn into dungeon crawls.

>>51028186
Why hasn't it happened in a traditional fantasy setting, either? I mean, most of them have stagnated at their current tech level for thousands of years or more. Why would jumping the timeline ahead a few hundred years make much of a difference? I could see if one singular group had modern technology and the rest all didn't, but if they all do, it would be very much like the Cold War, probably. Also divine intervention, too.

>>51028281
So FF6 then? Though as someone's who's usual frame of reference for Fantasy is Warhammer I don't know why they have to be extremely technologically stagnant.

I'm looking to build a magitek setting using 3.5e/PF/d20R for the system.

How do I make viable firearms happen that wouldn't turn melee entirely garbage?

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>>51028442
Magical shielding, blocks fast-moving projectiles but has a limited power source and some magical effects can cause catastrophic damage if they hit the shield.

>>51028442
Don't make them huge damage dealers. Make them use more dice for damage, but make sure you can't add any modifiers to them. Pistols could be 2d4, 3d4 for rifles. Firearms would be a huge benefit to the masses, but if someone's got high enough strength they outdo them.

>>51027376
>After they defeat the goblins the group decideds to take a bit of a road trip.
>Party discusses buying tickets for the closest greyhound but the fighter says "I've got a better idea"
>Goes to the barn and pulls the tarp off a Volkswagen bus covered in dust
>"She ain't exactly new but all she needs is a good spit shine and a tank of gas and we're in business."
>The van has an 8-track of Led Zepplin in the player.

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>>51028551
Forgot pic.

>>51028281
I must say that the stagnation of those universes is really strange, apart from the gods that might try to stop technological advancement. Every societies with people dedicated to research will advance, and most of those settings have at least mages that spend their days studying, not to mention all of those with rogue guilds developing clever mechanisms and mad engineers that conceive cunning traps. The fact that most fantasy universe is based on technology from a non-magic world (our) leads to incoherence (people just stopped innovating ? because of what ? even constant war is an awesome reason to innovate). An idea would be to create the universe "from scratch", with well written laws of magic (which percent of the population can use it ? how it was discovered, and improved? things like that. Why people would bother developing agriculture if you can magically create food for example.

>>51028578
I feel like the reason for that stagnation doesn't matter. For most players, it doesn't matter. What's important is if the world is fun to play in and the story is good. You're in for some big disappointment if you put too much thought into the logic of the world only for it to go unnoticed.

>>51028442
make them really long to reload. You can also assume that everybody can use them, 40k style, with fighters charging while shooting. You can also assume that in your universe, melee weaponry become way more efficient than steel weapons (everybody has arcane-infused ultra sharp weapons, way deadlier than gun for example)

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>>51028528
This might work, something similar to the Shield spell be fitted into the modern tacticool armor, powered by the bullshit magic batteries of my setting.

>>51028534
That's interesting. How would you handle firearms capable of burst/automatic fire, or even scattering shots?

>>51028712
I was learning more towards the latter, yes, where they're very common, and exceptionally easy to use.


Thanks for the responses, guys, gives me plenty to think about.

Also, would you consider allowing the occasional player to play bipedal awakened pets to be distasteful? The campaign is revolving around the party being a police taskforce.

>>51028572
>after a couple days of repair they wave good bye and head off after getting a home cooked meal from the fighters family and a couple wards from the wizards dad
>fighter drives 5 under the speed limit and cites "drive to arrive"
>wizard politely asks if he could change the album
>theif agrees from the back as he strechs out laying his feet across the seat and luggage
>Fighter starts insulting their taste in music and women
>wizard claims to have gotten "all the pussy."
>banter ensues
>Preist says they should just turn it off and listen to nature
>everyone starts ragging on the preist.

>>51028812
I wish this could be my life. Modern fantasy road tripping would be so comfy.

>>51028642
completely agree, that was just some meta-thinking on the state of most fantasy universes. Nevertheless, it's also really interesting to play in a world which change around you, like during an industrial revolution era. Another idea could also be a universe where you play a legacy of heroes, or just several groups at different era, not so far apart, using the older group as historical facts. You can even keep the same rule system if you go for something like charlemagne - high middle age - renaissance, seeing how the world has changed between

>>51028852
I'd love to play in a world that could grow, but my DM is so obsessed with the status quo that nothing changes, even when we players try to be movers and shakers.

>>51028812
>dwarf bard on the side of the road,holding a sign
> fighter slow down
> "to Korasum"
> everybody but the cleric look distracted
> fighter speed up, leaving the dwarf behind
> cleric at loss, asking why he didn't stop
> awkward silence
> "well, first, it was a dwarf"

>>51028812
>After stopping of by a gas station the group disperses to find a bit of work for some gas and food money.
>Most of the group comes back with nothing aside form a few odd jobs around town.
>Priest has been talking to some the happenings around town and finds out that there's a major excavation happening a few miles outside the town and the archeologist in charge is looking for some able bodies and sound minds.
>"So what're they digging up?" the wizard inquires.
>"Supposedly an ancient dwarven city."
>Group perks up at the mention of dwarf.
>"Sounds like a pretty big pay day, especially if the big wig doesn't notice a couple of gold pieces and vases going missing from the hall."
>"Well boys I think we found ourselves a job" the fighter says placing his boots on the table.

>>51029018
>>51028976
>>51028842
>bar fights with dwarven bikers
>defending a druids grow op from orc gangers
>fighting a toll troll who demands payment for crossing a bridge
>finding an owlbear poaching ring
>cleansing a haunted house for a youth group to use for fund raising
>BEACH EPISODE MUTHA FUCKA

>>51029107
Basically this is shaping up to be "The great american road trip with a few extra dragons in it"

>>51029107
>owlbear poaching ring
I'm sold out

>>51028976
>>51029018
>>51029107
Opening Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUyXIg31SqA

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>>51028789
>How would you handle firearms capable of burst/automatic fire, or even scattering shots?
Make them area effects like blast, burst, cone or line

>>51028281
>Why hasn't it happened in a traditional fantasy setting, either?
Plot

No other reason.

A modern nation has the power to genocide a nation that does not exhibit the same level of power, the only thing that stops it is mercy. Or, if the other nation has that level of power, deterrence. That simplifies a few things, but it works for our discussion I think.

Take orcs. They, as is in a typical fantasy setting, are not going to stop. If the Elves or humans advance to current levels of combat power projection (nukes for example, take an extreme) why in the fuck would orcs still exist? They will not stop.

If the orcs have an equal amount of power (so everyone advances) then you are stuck with the problem still...because orcs will not stop. Deterrence doesn't really work with them. Not as described in the 'typical fantasy setting'.

Something has to give. Someone won that war, and won it for the last time.

Or, there is something else going on.

Now we could take the cheap way out and just say 'uh, orcs are not really like that in this setting' but I think it would be cooler if we could come up with another reason why it didn't happen than that. Something that fits the stereotypical setting and yet seems plausible.

Maybe there is a big bad that has taken over the orc lands and holds them in check because of deterrence. Something like the old Cold War maybe.

>>51028442
You change nothing and remember that HP are not meat points.

A guy doesn't get to be 20th level and then is able to survive being stabbed twenty times without taking any real damage. But rather he invokes plot armor and isn't really hurt those first twenty times.

Same with guns. The first twenty bullets didn't hit him, they ate away his plot armor.

A bullet should do about twice the 'damage' as a sword, in my opinion, as it takes a bit more plot armor to convince me that the guy didn't get hit.

Next, make a arbitrary ruling that only melee weapons can be magical. Something like it must be wielded by a living hand when it makes contact or something.

>>51028578
Most fantasy settings in campaigns, if the creator realizes it or not, are on a cycle of rise and collapse. The world collapses (to make new dungeons and lost whatevers) just as things get good.

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>>51028281
>>51028422
>>51028578
>>51028642

My headcannon for these kinds of worlds is that the world DID evolve, but that's not how people view the past. Like, you know, this is how a medieval dude imagined Alexander the Great. It's normal for people to imagine the past similar to the present.

Of course it's just headcannon directed to calm my own autism.

So whats the setting summary? Or this thread general worldvuilding ideas to be utilized elsewhere?

>>51029321
Really interesting point of view. Indeed, a fantasy world brings easily doomsdays or whatever on the table, and truly terrifying events. Which lead to the cycle.

>>51029440
as OP did not really specified more stuff after the first post, I guess it's now a worldbuilding focusing on technology included in fantasy setting thread

>>51029201
>>51029186
>>51029145
What system?
What are cities like?
Where are we going?
What kind of food do we discover along the way?

>>51029440
>>51029471
Maybe next thread should include a prompt, probably something about the nations of the world. I don't imagine that democracies would be too terribly common in that type of setting.

>>51029441
You got to figure that eventually in every setting the PCs are going to drop the ball eventually.

I've run games based on the idea 'the previous party failed, now you guys are living the hell'. Worked out OK. Guys played as rebels (we would call them insurgents now) in a land taken over by the bad guy mages. Re-connecting with Gods whose temples were thrown down, that sort of thing.

>>51029505
>What system?
Given that this is a sort of setting with guns and sword fighting I'd imagine something like Ubiquity. It's able to pull of the anime/hollywood action movie feel that it invokes.
>What are cities like?
Cities would probably be hubs of technology that is pretty far ahead of those in the countryside (i.e. everyone in the country still uses pay phones and smart phones are common in cities)
>Where are we going?
Wherever the road takes us man.
>What kind of food do we discover along the way?
Bullete meat probably.

>>51029537
I think if we wanted it to work, we might say something like city states remained the norm. That would help prevent the over all power level of any given nation rising to the point where we have nukes floating around.

It would also allow the more chaotic bad guys to possibly stick around as they might be used as pawns to play off against other city states.

Kind of a magitech points of light sort of thing maybe.

>>51029505
>several orc fastfood along the way
>they serve spicy mushroom stew with meat
> huge variety
> most old clerics speak against those place, saying that it's unhealthy and gross
> they prefer the good ol' tavern, teens don't know what is good

>>51029606
Probably something like later Greek kingdoms where it's a series of City-States that banded together to form a nation.

>>51026251
>Orcs invading west end of the Elven countryside
>Bow/Arrow aren't very efficient
>Bring in Drawf Engineers to collaborate with Elf Mages
>R&D to find more efficient projectile firing system using mana crystals for power
>Human governments catch wind of this
>They want a piece of the pie
>Dwarf Engineer starts leaking information to the Human governments for large amounts of gold
>Needs someone to "steal" documents and details of the research
>Hires your party
Can't wait til you get to have a modern fantasy version of the Manhattan Project.

>>51029660
>operation parchment holder

>>51026657
So orcs are basically the same level as autistic people. It honestly makes sense.

>>51029660
"We have to Wienlund Empire (Nazis) from casting the Meteor Spell! (Dropping the A-Bomb)"

>>51029537
In the textbook sense? No.

In a democratic representative federal republic? I don't see why not.

>>51029781
Mostly because I see republics as an after effect of WWI because beforehand constitutional monarchies were still in vogue.

>>51029660
> project finally done
> elven kingdom almost fallen to the orc
> humans nuke without a consensus the orcs and the elvens, fearing for their borders.
> dwarves cannot accept that
> cold war between dwarvs and humans
> elves become refugee, seeking asylum in all the kingdoms
> meanwhile, the evil cult behind the orc invasion try to create its own mana nuke

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>>51029237
It could be very much like how Krogans are handled in Mass Effect.
>Krogans expand exponentially
>Very agressive, will destroy anyone in there way
>Introduce disease that decimates the population
>Society now has to focus on reproduction instead of war and expansion to survive
Would some sort of disease placed upon Orcs and inhibit rates of reproduction work within a fantasy setting? I think if it's a "modern" fantasy setting then there must be someone that has solved the "orc problem".

>>51029732
I like it

>>51029769
>Humans begin developing weapons of mass destruction
>Society undergoing mass anti-Elf hysteria
Considering that you could use magic to slightly alter yoru appearance it would be neat to see actual Elf spies that can just hide in plain sight with accusations being thrown left and right of anybody being a spy.

>>51029859
I think in terms of world building what would be a "modern" fantasy setting that having an evil cult manipulate an entire race behind the scenes doesn't seem very good or plausible but you definitely be a cool thing to do for a campaign! Sort of like the Nazi -> Hydra transition.

>>51026251
op should post a map next time. Doesn't have to have kingdoms labeled or anything or lands designated. but a map could help a good bit.

>>51029823
I can totally see a major World War occurring. Several even, especially with racial and martial/magical divides creating a more naturally segregated world

>>51030339
Several wars occurring, yes. World Wars occurring, no. People tend to forget that the reason that WWI occurred in the first place was because Otto Von Bismarck basically created a scenario where everyone what both ready to kill each other and unable to fight one another. The second that he was kicked out of office because he pissed off the Kaiser everything went to hell. Before that wars were common but never truly spiraled out of control as much as WWI did.

>>51028442
the point of firearms is to make all melee garbage instead of focus on making them balanced switch focus making combat be about guns and the advantage of D20 systems have already a good focus on melee fighting

Why don't we focus on making some nation states to help set the tone of the setting?

>The Divine Throne of Ocannus the Brilliant is a Theocratic nation state that exists along the equator as the Sun Palace is situation in geosyncronous orbit held in place by massive chains
>The reason for this is supposedly the founder expressing "godhood" such that a vast array of arcane machines was needed to regulate his powers.
>Below the Throne in the captial city of Ocannus the Consensus of Wisdom rules in his place being made up primarily of members of the Clergy in the highest positions with lay persons of various fields and expertise filling various adminstrative roles.
>While accepting of various technological advances they are highly conservative in regards that only those baptized and ordained by the government are allowed to practice and study magic treating foreign users with suspicion and placing heavy restictions upon their ability to use inside the main cities.
>In truth, the purpose for all of this is the appeasement of the creature that inhabits King Ocannus's body which is both held in check by the various machines and wards but also in that the clergy bind themselves in pacts with it.

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>>51030757
There is so much you could do with melee combat in a modern fantasy setting that getting rid of it all together would be quite unfun (Just imagine the shit you can come up with!).

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>>51031037

This is where I usually turn to Destiny for this sort of thing. You have suits that look like cloths but are in fact advanced forms of power armor (Titans more obvious then Hunters and Warlocks obviously) You have modern guns and then you have enemies that can strait up ignore bullets because they have semi-divine powers that tell reality only niggas brave enough to shank me can hurt me on top fo the fact that you have weapons that can burst into flame or shoot ilghtning or be enveloped in dark energy.

I think if we treat magic and technology at the speed that Destiny does everyone can have their cake and eat it too.

>>51031037
>>51031097
You could go the Witcher way with melee and even ranged weapons. I imagine that there are magical creatures and fauna all around right? Maybe there exists old(some even ancient) schools of martial arts, orders of knights, mercenary companies and more recently biotech firms that try to push the limits of physical potential using alchemy/magically potent drugs/carved runes on bare flesh/replacing limbs with those of magical creatures. Add in the fact that an enchanted weapon's magical field extends no further than the weapon itself means that enchanting every bullet becomes prohibitively expensive.

Defensive runes capable of taking a few mundane hits before buckling but are ignored by enchanted weapons(and their magical fields) means both ranged and melee weapons would have a place.

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>>51031478

Indeed, just because you can handle normal people with regular weapons doen't mean the supernatural threats can be taken out the same way. Which annoys me because people bring up the idea that they would have been exterminated or something rather than evolving or making way for something that can adapt to the way people do things.

For me, taking Witcher/Destiny and Blood/souls style magic would be perfect because it doesn't require figuring out how to fit D&D magic into a modern era. Most of that stuff could just be the metaphysics of magic in that setting that is explained as something too big that even you, the PC wizard would not be able to pull off on a whim such as fucking with time and space or whatever.

Since it seems like many people want to actually modernize a setting instead of discuss general world building principles how's about in the next thread we take an already existing setting, file off the serial numbers so to speak, and then modernize it by exploring its history.

For example we can take say...Thedas from Dragon Age, file off the names and such and move the setting forward technologically and socially and see where it takes us. Or maybe WHFB, if the End Times didn't happen and see if we can't end with President Nagash.

Advancing Nirn may be very interesting, taking into consideration the more Kirkbride-y elements.

>>51030535
>>51030535
Maybe. I tend to see it as a situation where interlocking complex treaties put things in motion that were unable to be stopped. The reality of mobilization times also meant that if you didn't start mobilizing when your enemy dead you could e defeated out of hand.

Looked at that way, a WWfantasy isn't that hard to imagine.

>>51030757
>>51030757
I see no reason to get rid of it. It would disappear for the commoner, sure. He has something like maybe 3-6 hp, those are functionally meat points.

But when you have to beat your way through a hundred hp a sword can come in to play a bit easier. It would functionally be a hero vs hero thing though.

>>51031777
Of course but the thing to keep in mind that these treaties had Bismarck's hand in it in some fashion. Left to it's own devices Europe probably would have persisted the way it had for hundreds of years, constantly at war.

>>51030757
That's the simulationist way of looking at it, but since this is a game, I think making all combat choices fun is more important.

>>51031821
Guns being for mooks and swords for the elite would be a pretty good paradigm. May not be completely true and more an exaggeration, but it would be believed by most of the people and would have some pretty interesting cultural impacts.

>>51031708
Really we're kind of trying to wrap our heads around the possible tropes that such a setting would entail because no-one's ever codified this type of setting before. Really the reason why we're discussing this genre in terms of fantasy settings is because we understand the general principles of magic, technology, adventure trope those settings have.

>>51031958
I mean it's not like swords aren't absent from modern day action fiction and pulp adventure in general.

>>51031985
I'd only support this if something like what I said here>>51031478 was in play. These people can tell whatever (in-universe)stories they want about some rando chucklefuck picking up a sword and going ham on the enemies of "insert relevant city-state here" to save the world, but on the (in-universe)battlefield, there's a damn good reason why melee warriors stand besides everyone else and why no one with a functioning brain would demand they use different weapons.

>>51031985
I just think if you want to stay true to the idea of 'typical fantasy setting' with modern tech...you almost have to keep some of the medieval weaponry around that is common in fantasy. Don't you? At least to me.

>>51031964
By the way, just what is modern? I mean, are we going full modern? Stop at say WWII?

I like the cyberpunky aspects that would creep in with modern and magic together. But, I know I keep harping on it, but the full military power that modern brings is I think a problem.

Although I guess we could say that military tech just didn't advance that far - the collusion of magic and tech stunted some breakthroughs on the tech side.

But what about monsters? Giants to Dragons to just about most anything big and scary. An M60 machine gun would do a serious world of hurt on any of that stuff, if needed bring out a jeep with a 50 cal. Plot armor is fine for people/heroes, but it just seems a bit out of place for big monsters.

How is it they didn't overun everything during medieval fantasy times yet didn't get extincted during modern fantasy times?

>>51032125
What if there is a size problem with enchanting things? So a bullet maybe not so much, unless very expensive. But an arrow is much easier.

Keep those rangers in the game.

>>51031958
>Guns being for mooks and swords for the elite would be a pretty good paradigm.

The more I think about this the more I like the vision of the thing. Guy who is 'support guy' carries an M60 around laying down support fire on mooks while the rest of the squad engages with M4's. Then X monster pops up (or enemy special guy squad, whatever) and he drops the machine gun to unsling his bow while the rest of his team draw swords.

>>51032135
>I just think if you want to stay true to the idea of 'typical fantasy setting' with modern tech...you almost have to keep some of the medieval weaponry around that is common in fantasy. Don't you? At least to me.
THIS
I swear, it seems like most of this thread wants to drop most of the fantasy from the "modern fantasy". I think that other than firing more rapidly/with better range, guns in a fantasy game shouldn't be all that different from the likes of crossbows. Explosives would be pretty hardcore, but so are fireballs. Getting gutted with a claymore's not going to be THAT much more desirable to being blasted with a heavy machine gun.

>>51032135
Having it be mostly allied city-states is pretty good. As for the monsters, just blame them on inexplicable and uncontrollable magical phenomena. The kind of shit you can really only weather through while hoping you make it out the other side. Things like magical eclipses, dimensional rifts, meteors carrying more of the buggers, deep-sea earthquakes releasing untold horrors that proceed to mate with monsters thus spawning ever more powerful offspring, They drop down from the moon, etc. We need to remember that this is also a magical setting(s) that should have natural magical phenomena.

>>51032210
What if magic protection was common? Common as in 'most super elite, read PC, have it'. Say you could, as a few anons suggested, protect yourself from non-magical damage pretty easily.

But along with that we said that magic attacks would cut right through that protect, does nothing.

So a non-magical bullet does almost no damage to the guy who can afford the protective stuff. So bullets do like 1 hp if you have the protection.

But you can enchant a sword pretty easily, or an arrow for that matter.

So you get in a position where PCs are vulnerable to bullets, but not so much it is instant death and not so little they are literal tanks that ignore infantry platoon rifle platoon fire. Guns are still best for taking out mooks. But for other PC class stuff, you got to take out that enchanted word.

>>51032135
>By the way, just what is modern? I mean, are we going full modern? Stop at say WWII?

Personally I'd say that anything from the 19th - Right Now is pretty much fair game. I don't care too much for the whole cyberpunk/transhumanism thing either.

>Although I guess we could say that military tech just didn't advance that far - the collusion of magic and tech stunted some breakthroughs on the tech side.

I would almost say that science and magic complemented one another and helped lead to modern breakthroughs, helping technology prove concepts that they could replicate (i.e. using electricity as a power source, helping facilitate the combustion engine, ect.)

>But what about monsters? Giants to Dragons to just about most anything big and scary. An M60 machine gun would do a serious world of hurt on any of that stuff, if needed bring out a jeep with a 50 cal. Plot armor is fine for people/heroes, but it just seems a bit out of place for big monsters.

>How is it they didn't overun everything during medieval fantasy times yet didn't get extincted during modern fantasy times?

I'd think about it in terms of the situation in places like Australia and the sorter parts of Africa, certainly things like Hyenas, Lions, and Elephants are dangerous to the population but the government probably doesn't have the resources or manpower to kill every dragon on gods green earth.

Another factor is that things like elephant rampages are rare mainly due to the fact that they just mind their own business and stay in their one territories, they usually don't hunt near human settlements unless they are desperate.

>>51032291
It would just be nice to come up with a rational for why standard fantasy setting monsters are still around.

Any ideas? Otherwise you are most likely right.

>>51032300
I'd break that down to the reason why regular protection, like bullet-proof vests, isn't common it's expensive and pretty situational.

>>51032300
That seems needlessly complicated to me. I guess this just isn't the thread for me. There are countless games out there where being shot isn't an immediate death sentence for most non-mook characters. Why can't this mentality just blend with the concept of people also having swords and hammers without needing to invent subsytems and pointless rules about what can and can't be enchanted.

>>51032330
I mean lions, tigers, and bears are still around.

>>51032159
Well with bows and arrows, you could just go and pick some of them back up, tear them out of the enemies corpse. That along with being bigger and having more room for charms and fetishes might make it more cost effective. That's not even getting into the kinds of magical trees you can carve the bows and arrows out of.

>>51032353
It's kind of the problem when you get simulationists and everyone else in the same room. And really you don't honestly as the real world doesn't really follow that same logic.

>>51032330
What kind of monsters? If humanoid, why aren't races that are deemed "too violent" just wiped out in the real world?
And for nonhumanoid, there are tons of animals in the real world that were once seen as monsters. Maybe those are just the natural fauna for the setting.

>>51032310
>I'd think about it in terms of the
It may just be that the solution is that figure out specific stuff to keep, and then come up with varied reasons as might apply to each. Along with new monsters perhaps.

So dragons figured out they need to stay away from humans. Undead just happen and don't care about non-magic stuff anyhow. Demons more of the same. Some large animal level predators have marked territory in areas that aren't really cared about. Other stuff is extinct.

>>51032392
I'd image it would also be a bitch an half to actually catch a dragon, they burn a village, eat some livestock, and fuck off back to it's lair. You can't really prepare an effective response in that timeframe.

>>51032432

Maybe dragons are very periodic.

I would also imagine dragons being somewhat aquatic. They would have a lot of food sources in fishes.

Another possibility would be that dragons realise that humans are dangerous. Maybe not enough to kill them but enough to scar them. So they don't see the point in risking crippling themselves unless they really have to.

This thread is fucking stupid, and for all the right reasons too.

One half is doing this as a hypothetical exercise, establishing rules and norms for a modern fantasty setting.

The other is trying to make a setting from scratch and fluff it up.

There should be two different threads, and this anon had a good point, >>51031708, starting from an established start point will make it easier to move on organically and see how history will unfold with all the settings variables kept in mind.

The other problem is the modern part. And the fantasy part to a lesser degree. Unless I'm an asshole and misinterpreted the OP, but isn't the point to start from a fantasy setting and walk it up to the modern age? That doesn't mean "How can we keep swords around in a setting with guns?" or "How can we make this fantasy setting have wifi and make sense?". That means, given a sociopolitical, geographic, and historical preset, unfold events as they would naturally in this setting until we reach a point in the setting that we can consider "modern". Shit, we may discover that the plane doesn't ever get guns, either for scientific or social reasons. Nation states may disolve entirely to give way to international unions and allies. Hell, things may get cyberpunk real quick and the Hisidic Dwarves gain economic superiority and megacorps own everything. We never know.

But having an end state in mind and building towards that endstate inorganically isn't a good way to go.

>>51032353
It might just be because I am military. Gun so outclass anything else it isn't even funny.

Even with the whole hp are plot armor thing the problem is that a gun is going to eat through plot armor far faster than a sword would/should. From range, rapid fire, squad fire, modern combat is pretty horrible if you play against decent people.

But you could just say 'a pistol is the same as a hand cross bow, a rifle is the same as a long bow' and let it go.

Although, honestly that still is not even close. Especially considering effective ranges of modern firearms.

>>51026657
WE WUZ ORKS WE WEUZ CONQUERUS AND SHIET
DA WHITEY ELVUS KEEP PUTTIN US DOWN
WE NEED MOAH MONEY FOR DEM POTIUNS

>>51032462
If you live for hundreds of years you eventually figure out that even if a bullet doesn't kill you right away it still hurts like a bitch. Of course I'm thinking of Dragons with a more animalistic mentality.

>>51032467
I still view this thread as being constitutive even though I do agree with your points. It's sort of getting people to consider this idea more seriously than I've seen in the past.

>>51032475
This. Seriously.

Guns and bombs are fucking dangerous and outclass everything at a certain level of sophistication. Barring magical nonsense like Ki are Spellswords, a Fighter with a 249 SAW and a thousand rounds of 5.56 is going to hilariously more dangerous than the full party running around with swords and shields, again barring magical shit like mithril armour and high level Piercing the Heavens and such. But then again an Epic Fighter toting around an Artillery piece like a rifle is still going to be more effective than the Epic Fighter with a sword.

Even if we include magical shenanigans, can you imagine how dangerous mithril bullets would be? Shotgu slugs? Anti armour rounds? Frag Grenades?

It would be Civil War levels of carnage.

>>51032475
Probably a better way to think about combat in this sort of setting would be to think of the pulps, Indian Jones and such.

>>51032573
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I love this thread and everyone in it, especially if it gets modern fantasy some attention, but Nirn and Eberron won't get to iPhones and AKs the same way, and neither will most fantasy settings. Either the fluffers need to make their own fantasy setting to launch into the future, or take a preexisting one (to save time and effort) and as a practical exercise move the timeline forward.

>>51032582
All right. I'm out. /k/ommandos just suck the fun out of everything. I can't stand gun wank.

>>51032582
>But then again an Epic Fighter toting around an Artillery piece like a rifle is still going to be more effective than the Epic Fighter with a sword.

And that is exactly the problem i have. Assuming you want to keep swords around, you have to do something plot to make it happen. Because guns are just that much better. Sure, a high level fighter could carry a sword and swing it around. But why would he do that instead of use a rifle?

Needs to be a plot reason, if you want the word to stay of course.

>Even if we include magical shenanigans, can you imagine how dangerous mithril bullets would be?

That is why I suggested above that you can't enchant bullets for plot reasons. But that you can enchant swords.

>>51032582
Which again is why I think that combat should probably be thought in a more pulp style, it doesn't matter how hilariously powerful your gun is if you can't hit for shit.

>>51032641
Seriously? that little triggered you? You are a gentle soul, aren't you.

It is just a problem that needs to be addressed is all. Nothing more. Or reality acknowledged, whichever direction you go in.

>>51032672
With older guns you might get that to stick. Which goes back to the question of how modern is modern?

>>51032650
In terms of military usage that's understandable, there would be no reason not to outfit your army with guns.

But think about this sword duels continued in Europe till after WWII, hell there's a story about a British officer who fought in WWII with nothing but a bow and a claymore and lived.

>>51032703
I'd imagine that the level varies from 19th - 21st century. And the usage of certain weapons can be cultural things, soldiers in the Japanese military during WWII where outfitted with katanas for close quarters combat. If you look at something like Lupan III were despite the fact that it's a 70's setting a samurai is able to make it through combat encounters just fine. Another thing to consider is that not all nations have the same access to guns as Americans do.

>>51032735
>But think about this sword duels continued in Europe till after WWII, hell there's a story about a British officer who fought in WWII with nothing but a bow and a claymore and lived.

I see where you are going. But the reality is that people do stupid shit all the time and live. The fact is he lived because someone didn't shoot him, not because he was carrying a claymore.

Duels? Sure. But that hardly seems a typical adventure issue. Here and there maybe, but not a mainstay.

Which is fine, if that is what you want. And if you follow the logical growth of things without using plot that may very well be where you end up naturally.

Myself, for purely game play reasons, I'd like to keep that older fantasy stuff in play. But I am stuck in that I feel like there has to be at least some plausible/plot reason for it.

>>51032573

Worse if you live for hundreds of years, you might have to carry a wound for hundred of years. Imagine how crippling a hole in the wing would be. Even if humans can't kill you the wound they give might give an advantage to your competitors (be it other monsters or other dragons).

And considering that humans aren't really nutritious (for a dragon), there is no point in dragons preying on humans.

I think it would be like bears. If a lone humans, wanders into their territory, they might attack it. Or if it is a female bear/dragon with cubs, they will attack to protect their children.

In this case, the dragon doesn't even have to be intelligent.

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>>51031958
You could always see it the way it's done in RWBY in which weapons can be augmented to use magic of some form making up for the lack of power between melee weapons and its ranged equivalent.
Somewhat like >>51032199 is thinking.
Bullets are only going to be so-powerful when it goes to magic defense to which I think magic+melee would fare much better against.
Now that I've finished typing this, >>51032300 explains this very well.

>>51032330
It seems like a lot of your standard fantasy monsters aren't roaming around in extremely large numbers so I see no reason why they would just be wiped out from all existence just because of the modernization of a fantasy setting.

>>51032467
I agree and I think that another issue is the assumption that technology as it is RIGHT NOW is what would exist or be achieved in a fantasy setting. A few anons have mentioned that technological development is going to change with the mix of both technology and magic and the very existence of such magic changes how a fantasy settings can advance in the first place. Assuming that the "modern" means they just have what we consider mondern technology is somewhat boring because then there is not much worldbuilding to do other than just shoehorn existing technology into a fantasy setting and forcing is to work.

>>51032807
>The fact is he lived because someone didn't shoot him, not because he was carrying a claymore.

Actually as it turns out the claymore was actually useful when fighting against people in bunkers.

>But I am stuck in that I feel like there has to be at least some plausible/plot reason for it.

Really you don't a justification for it, hell cyberpunk has stiff like street samurai and in all honesty it's pretty fucking stupid when you think about it long enough.

>>51032799
The thing is, it wasn't common joe that was carrying around muh katanna. That was really more of an officer thing, symbol of authority (imperial japan got back in to the samurai thing as a propaganda issue). In the same way that officers, depending on rank and situation, may be armed with pistols rather than rifles. Because their weapon is their ability to lead, and we don't want them spending time shooting. If they are shooting, there is something else very broken...and again I need them focused on fixing that with their brain.

We have gotten to the point now where everyone carries a rifle, but that is because I have to pretend that the people I am sending officers out to talk to are our friends and allies and not the enemies that everyone knows they are.

>>51032641
Guns are just more effective at this point in the game, get over it. Dudes don't run around with spears and bows (except for this one time in Afghanistan) and the inly guys that use swords and axes are 2cool4u Opr8rs or Jihadists.

If you want to have classic sword 'n board side by side with fire arms you need a damn good reason. Either a realistic one like "at this point in time in history guns fucking suck, but not enough to not use them given the chance, and everyone is more familiar with a sword anyway" or

>"Where we're fighting, guns won't help us"
>[Trench fighting intensifies]

Or make it so "PC"s are deadly with a sword than a regular dude is with a gun due to magic or supernatural feats of strength and skill

>>51032910
So dragons, magic, gods, demons are all okay.
But weapon balance is where you draw the line?

>>51032874
I don't know why carrying a sword would automatically make you a villain but if that's how you feel about it.

Really I'd say that the solution there would be to say that owning a firearm past a pistol would be grounds for arrest for MOST people, PCs might have an exception.

>>51032951
I'm going to have you quote me on the dragons, magic, etc. part friend. Go on I can wait.

Oh, and while you're at it, find the part where I said that having weapon balance is bad. Go on, I have all the time in the world.

So while you take the time to cite your claims, let me reiterate my own. Weapon balance isn't bad, I, and a few others it seems, feel that there needs to be some measure of explanation as to why the dud the bow and sword is as deadly as the guy with the firearm in a modern setting. And as I've said previously, the answer to this question may vary depending on the kind of fantasy. Tamriel for example, may very well ditch swords and shields in favor or semi automatic weapons, but mages will still very much be in vouge, while in a setting like Exalted an Exalt with a blade can lay waste to a tank battalion no sweat.

>>51033199
Really the disconnect for me, and probably quite a few people here, with the idea of everyone should have a 249 SAW is that why would a regular civilian have this? Most nations that aren't America have pretty strict laws on owning firearms, even countries like Australia and the countries in southern Africa were you'd figure that having something like that would be necessary to fend off all the shit that wants to eat you. Another issue I see with this is that most people don't own guns due to the expense and how rarely they would ever need one.

>>51033199
If you aren't cool with fantasy trappings, get your bullshit back to /k/ where you can circlejerk to your heart's content. You shouldn't be posting a modern fantasy thread to begin with.

>>51033275
Okay so the SAW is a bit extreme, but I'm a SAW gunner so it's the first weapon that pops into my head. But I'm also from the east coast, and have been to Africa. You know what the most common weapon I've seen?

The AK motherfuckin 47. Africa? Afghanistan? Iraq? Baltimore? New York? The russian fuckers are everywhere. Now it's a pretty ingenious design, but there's no reason to think that with magical materials and parts that an even simpler and efficient weapon wouldn't get made.

But beyond its ease of use and maintaining, it shoots fucking lead dude. 7.62 is fucking dangerous, and punches holes in people you wouldn't believe. An M4 will poke a hole in a guys skull and kill him, but an AK will blow his head up like a watermelon. My point is, why use a sword or spear when more dangerous weapons are far more pervasive, ESPECIALLY in the criminal world where such weapons may be necessary.

>>51033337
Well if I didn't want to be civil and reasonable in a civil and reasonable thread I'd tell you to fuck off to /qst/ or something, I don't know.

I'm down with swords and semi automatic weapons being in the same room. Shit, a gunner on this convoy got hit with a spear once, they still work and they're awesome. But I want a reason that "heroes" would pick up their +2 Bastard Sword as opposed to a +2 M16 of Hadji removal.

But you seem to be content with crying "CIRCLEJERK" and directing me towards /k/ instead of engaging in discourse

>>51032310
Well, in that case, the issue with the monsters wouldn't be "why didn't they get extincted" as much as "what are they doing now?" I can see the intelligent, humanoid, or controlled monsters deciding to fuck off to civilization - Dragons become investment bankers, running their own banks; ancient oracles are on TV, running psychic hotlines; Trolls build and maintain bridges, collecting tolls and fees and paying their taxes, like their pappies did; Giants live in the backwoods of the ozarks, raising their sheep and mixing their moonshine, occasionally feasting on the bones of a revinooer. That fell flock of harpies who despoil the land and endlessly hassle all with their cries? They run a call center now.

Basically, to answer >>51032388 it isn't a question of who is "too violent" as much as it's a question of who is "useful." If a use can be found for them, they'll do it. Kobolds and Goblins happily work as greasemonkeys, while Hobgoblins keep them in line, and volunteer as brutish police officers, soldiers, and security guards of the less seemly (read: graveyard shift workers) type. With enough Orcs, Goblins, and other nocturnal humanoids, most cities would run 24 hours.

>>51033449
>But I want a reason that "heroes" would pick up their +2 Bastard Sword as opposed to a +2 M16 of Hadji removal
Because they have a higher strength than dex. Also, guns are for fucking pussies. Real men, HEROES, get up close.

>>51033479
THANK YOU. I was beginning to think no one believed the evil races capable of anything more than pillaging and being just targets for extermination.

>>51033484
As I was thinking of what DnD stat would govern guns I realized that's the other reason the world likes guns. Low strength? Get a small gun. Not very fast or dexterous? Shotgun. Dumb? Don't get a fucking G11, dumbass. Not wise? Guns are for you my friend! Not very charismatic? Worry not my trenchcoat wearing high schooler, this Uzi is for you!

Guns are the great leveler. You don't really need to be anything special to make a dude dead with a gun.

>"Lincoln made all men free. Colt made 'em equal."

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>hurr b-but wut about guns and bombs

So make the monster resistant or immune to them

Not rocket science

>>51033449
I'm not saying that people shouldn't use guns in this type if setting what I'm saying is that they might not be a ubiquitous as you think. Now the AK is very common across the world but they tend to accumulate in regions that are politically unstable or are picked up by organized crime organizations. Now in the scenario that most of us are imagining there is a fairly stable form of government in place, i.e. the government isn't going to break down if the leader suddenly dies. Most people in these stable environments tend to only possess one 1 firearm if any, a pistol or a hunting rifle. Now because firearms wouldn't be that common in this scenario it's not hard to imagine that a farmer might use a makeshift spear or truncheon if his cattle get attacked, as most animals tend to flee if they are caught. Because this was previously a medieval fantasy setting perhaps they have a heirloom sword sitting around.

>>51033619
That an a hunting rifle bullet ain't doing much to a dragon. Also WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GET AN RPG?

>>51033449
Well instead of assuming that this "modern fantasy" has M16's in it, we can assume that people within the setting have gone towards a different path with the blending of both magic and technology.
That may be a large part of the problem here. If we were to build the fantasy world, making it more modern as it goes along through its history they would most likely develop a different weapon than what we would have. While the end result may, and would very likely, be a gun of some sorts, the way it functions and the power it has may be much different then we would expect in comparison to our real world equivalent.

>>51033629
A farmer is going to have a shotgun or rifle of some kind, unless this is the third world. Even then he may an AK or some soviet piece of shit.

And our world used to be a medieval setting, dude. Do you have an Heirloom sword laying around? Again this goes back to "How Modern is Modern" because no First Worlder is going to have a longsword in their home unless they are working some hoodoo or are neckbeards.

>>51033619
What the fuck is a arrow going to against a thing that can shake off bombs?

>Hurr Bomb resistant and gun immune but swords can hurt it

>>51033704
>What the fuck is a arrow going to against a thing that can shake off bombs?

Depends on exactly how the weapon works. I could easily see swords and arrows doing a lot more to mystical sorts of foes than guns. Guns have not had the time to become as symbolic as weapons as older weapons.

>>51033704
>What the fuck is a arrow going to against a thing that can shake off bombs?

I dunno, what the fuck is a club going to do against something that can shake off steel/iron swords?

Hercules and Sigurd found a way

Can we stop talking about guns for a while? I really enjoyed the discussion before that.

What do people foresee powerful wizards doing in such a setting? What sort of abjurative arms race do you think corporations/equivalent are forced into to counter the sort of bullshit that wizards are capable of?

>>51033803
Guns tend to destroy comfy fantasy. Look at history.

As for wizards? Literally anything.

Walking artillery systems to bankers to scientists.

Magic can be extraordinarily diverse depending on the system

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Why does "Modern" mean 2017?

But "Medieval"means an ABSOLUTE clusterfuck of everything between 476 AD and 1491 AD

Explain you fucking donkeys

>>51033704
Not necessarily, I've known farmers who've never held a rifle in their life, it's not uncommon these days. Now I'm not saying that people can't have gun I'm just saying might want to scale it back. Hell you can't even get anything past a pistol in Japan.

Plus you have the other benefit of medieval idealisms having never really went away due to a world war, swords and dueling might still be a significant cultural thing in the country and thus sword training.

I know people in Scotland and England how do actually have heirloom swords. Hell I know people who have swords from the Civil war that their ancestors used.

>>51033842
I generally view modern as anywhere between 19th - 21st century. The choices in time period are arbitrary but it's whatever catches your fancy.

>>51033803
Wizards shouldn't be capable of bullshit, or at least not at all very easily. Have directed magic need time, exactitude, other wizards, expensive reagents and reliance on natural phenomena. There could be powerful, intelligent, magical creatures running around, but they shouldn't be wizards.

I think it's important to make the distinction that there would be city people who probably wouldn't have a need to hold onto weapons unless they were family heirlooms and even then it might be people who have some connection with the military perhaps. As far as people living outside those would be your main market for weapons use having to deal with monsters more often and they all don't have to be farmers either.

I mean, you could have some forest dwelling tribe who've perfected the use of the bow but also got guns because a rival tribe started getting them to and it helps to fight off bigger monsters as well.but if they run out of bullets or can't get ahold of a trader to buy more parts and ammo they still know how to make bows and arrows and use them.

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For all the gun wankers and anti-gun wankers lets make this basic assumption for why swords are still used

PCs and equivalent NPCs and Monsters are superhuman capable of superhuman feats of strength speed toughness and magic that allows for a sufficiently powerful character/monster to outpace guns. I'm talking shit like Metal Gear Rising just run forward with your sword block all the bullets

Guns are still viable for weaker humanoids and monsters, the mooks essentially but for the more powerful they can basically ignore any gun smaller than a 20mm, if you go hunting something like a Bulette with a gun you better bring something like pic related

IF you don't like that explanation then come up with something else half the arguing in this thread is because we are working with no base and are all making our own assumptions without knowing the basics of how the setting or system work or what level of power the players or enemies are supposed to be

>>51033803
In my own conception of the setting I have Wizards working as government workers, while they used to operate independently in times past the invention of more centralized governments pretty much left magic schools with no choice but to be part of their respective governments. Now they work as military leaders, government funded scientists, and as desk workers.

>>51033955
In my own conception of the setting I kill off the Elves and Dwarves as they've always been portrayed as the dying race and that this is the time of man.

>>51034025

Who says it has to be elves? I'm talking about regular human tribals. I don't deny the fact that fire-arms have changed many facets of life but at the end of the day you still need ammo and parts to maintain them and when you can't get them you need some other way of fighting.

Imagine some monster creates a snow storm that prevents delieveries into an area and the local guard force starts running low on ammo and the monsters keep coming. Are they just going to shrug and say "I don't have my gun anymore, might as well just die" or are they going to fashion some weapons out of whatever they have and fight to the death?

>>51033840
History=/=Fantasy, though. Guns don't have to ruin the dream. I think they can definitely add to it, if people can find their own answers to how they work!

I was mostly asking how people saw it in their own system/world. I come from a free-form background, so the idea of being constrained in what you can write in your world because of your system is something I hadn't thought about. I'll try to think about stuff like that more in the future.

>>51033927
So you imagine that scrying and such are so difficult and arduous that corporations and such just don't bother warding against, since they're so rare? Or do you see reagents to spells like that being controlled by most governments, making already difficult magic practically impossible?

>>51033988
I dig the concept of wizards as civil servants. It turns a lot of standard dungeon fantasy tropes on their heads. I could also see there being a lot of hedge wizardry going around, as a sort of magical counter-culture, or potentially even a rebellion depending on the strictness of the government in question, which could certainly make for an interesting plot or three.

>>51034105
Hell your wizard character could have finished his 4 years of military service and is now trying to find himself by bopping around the country doing adventures from town to town.

>>51034070
I don't disagree with your statement on that note but I would question why there would be tribals in a modern European setting. Of course thats all up to you.

>>51034173

Because Europe is the only place that exists in the world am I right? There'll never be a reason why I have to go to some kind of jungle setting and fight Undead Aztecs or go into the Desert and fight Ghouls with Paladin Achmed.

But yes, there wouldn't be primitive people's in the Europe expy of our Modern Fantasy setting. Granted, there could still be out of the way areas of !Europe that rely on regular deliveries to be viable and imagine if someone pissed off the local forest monsters/spirits and started to siege them?

>>51033449
I'm willing to say action economy - If you can swing a sword faster than an AK can chamber a new round, then a sword will win, hands down.

This is the solution proposed here: >>51028712 but written in a slightly different fashion - superhuman heroes are, well, superhuman, rather than guns suck.

>>51034212
I simply use the European fantasy as the bar for this thread simply because all of us are familiar with European fantasy tropes and thus a good model for who to modernize other nations. Though I do have an idea about doing a modern fantasy China/Japan that involves a lot of spirits and demons but that will have to come later.

>>51033803
Something that I found super interesting was in a manga called Magi.
There was one kingdom, specifically tailored for wizards, by wizards (They essentially treated all non magic inclined citizenry as second class citizens, but that's besides the point). If you wanted to learn magic that's the place to be. What they were doing with magic is creating tools that could perform simple spells with ease. So instead of needing to be some kind of mage yourself you could use these tools to perform functions you otherwise couldn't.
Now part way through the manga there is a timeskip and in this timeskip (Due to events at the previous to it) these magic tools became widely developed with many of the nations and powers developing new tools that could perform more complex spells and functions making magic available to the masses at large.
It changed everything. The way they transport goods, communicate with each other, trade, politics. Everything changed.
Now the true super powers were trading companies within setting. You had to keep developing new tools that performed more complex magical feats to be competitive and stay ahead of the curve.
So in this modernization of a fantasy setting this is what I would envision happening in some fashion. Simple magic becomes available to the masses, changing how people live their daily lives.

>>51034248
Its why people also the reason why soldiers carry knives with them.

>>51034105
>So you imagine that scrying and such are so difficult and arduous that corporations and such just don't bother warding against, since they're so rare? Or do you see reagents to spells like that being controlled by most governments, making already difficult magic practically impossible?
The really high tier stuff are walled behind expensive reagents and artifacts, cooperation, sites owned by corps and city-state governments, expensive grimoires, etc.

Wizard can't just wave their hands and/or mutter a few syllables and bring down meteors on top of cities. That level of bullshit doesn't even work in standard fantasy very well and is anathema to settings like this. Low-tier magic is fine for most singular mages, mid-tier for groups and exceptional individuals and high-tier reserved for corps and governments. So scrying and the like is an issue and they do take precautions against it. It just can't be done willy-nilly. Omni-disciplinarian mages are also a no-no.

>>51034290
So basically, a sliding scale of "what do I defend against" versus "what costs too much to be worth defending against" goes on for all companies, and for everything else, there is insurance underwriting?

>>51034345
Those wizard clerks gotta be useful for something. There should also be a difference between learning about magic and being capable at it. Someone with no talent for the art(and it should be more art than science) may be able to rattle on for days about magical theory, be capable of analyzing magical phenomena and objects and give sound advice on concerns of a magical nature.

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Do evil computer viruses count as fantasy or sci-fi?

My game is gonna feature Nigerian scammers as arc villains.

Their juju is the spirit of a powerful computer they use to terrorize the world with sentient viruses and "do X or Y will happen" chain email curses.

I was influenced by the evil secret societies of old west africa like the Leopard-men and the cult of Babalu Aye.

>>51034413
They could be useful in a trade aspect in that they can be used for developing new tools that improve the life of the average commoner.
See >>51034266

>>51034940
That's also a good idea. I wouldn't have it be possible to build these devices on assembly lines though. They should be artisan pieces, plus this way you occupy the time of a lot of low level mages.

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>>51026251
>>51026849

indiana jones type dungeon crawls in the ruined cities of extinct race sounds really awesome actually.

elfs - their low reproduction rate means that elfs have become a smaller and smaller portion of the world population. the high rate of casualities in modern warfare has reduced it to very small levels. elfs no longer have their own empires, and their lands have been conquered by humans. elfs live as a minisule minority within human nations as a result. that said, they have many centuries to accumulate wealth and power, so tehy generally are in the upper echelons of society.

orcs - genocided once human developed the technology for them to put them down for good. they arent smart enough to establish their own industrial base and their numbers were easily shit on by technology. there are a few orcs living on reservations in some nations, but they are incapable of causing any trouble.

dwarfs - also a minority from their low birth rate but they still retain their own cities and empires because they are so well fortified underground. a few have been conquered by humans but most survived. they also were part of the leading edge of the industrial revolution so they were able to make up for their fewer numbers with technology. today they have small nations in heavily fortified mountains were they do typical dwarf stuff amped up to 11.

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>>51033842
because basically nothing changed in that 1000 year period, retard.

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>>51035495
There's something about normal looking dudes with fantasy bullshit that I love

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>>51035583
>nothing changed

>>51026849

Just look at Muslims and the West right now. They don't mix well and it's causing all sorts of problems, but neither has exterminated the other (yet).

If you just put fantasy races into the modern stereotypes that inspired them, you get a fairly accurate view of the world.

>>51026849
Niggers managed it.

>>51035524
>genocided once human developed the technology for them to put them down for good. they arent smart enough to establish their own industrial base and their numbers were easily shit on by technology. there are a few orcs living on reservations in some nations, but they are incapable of causing any trouble.

That's bullshit since orc-like races will prosper in the modern world with their aggression and high birth rates.

>>51026657
>These anti-discrimination laws have the unintended consequence of reinforcing baseless and unfounded negative stereotypes surrounding these races. At the same time they serve to provide humans who DO fit those stereotypes with an convenient scape-goat on which to blame their own failings. This leads to the elevation of a despotic, racist (speciest?) demagogue with a low wisdom rating whose ill-founded attempts to appease his power-base prompts a brief but destructive race war which reveals the fragility of the foundations upon which they have built their society but leads to the normalization of "Social-Magistry" as a source of news and information, revolutionizing the war that leaders interact with the common folk.

>>51028186
With orcs at least you could assume that as they're capable of inter-breeding with humans they would end up in the same situation as the targets of /pol.
On the flip side african and jewish americans would probably be better off, assuming racial/religious discrimination exists at all between humans in the face of actual monstrous sub-humans to target.

>>51028442
Leave the damage unchanged, give them high crit multipliers and cause bleeding wounds.
Assume the materials available to make armor advance to keep pace with the firearms and that people are sensible enough to use it.
I'll let you in on a secret... in the real world from a medical perspective bullets aren't a particularly efficient way to kill people, it's the blood loss that gets you and it's the ease of use/lack of training required that makes guns dangerous.
From a real trauma perspective gunshot wounds aren't really likely to kill you or even cause any real long term issues if you get even basic treatment before you pass out from blood loss.
You could use that to justify the continued practice of armed melee combat arguing that ultimately if you really want to fuck someone up you're going to have at them with something big and nasty like a hammer or a pike which is much more likely to fuck them up permanently even if medical intervention arrives in a timely manner since it causes big nasty ass wounds.

>>51036609
In some modern fantasy settings, races are less important since people simply used nationality and monster/machine templates to serve as races replacement which did the job better.

The best modern setting would be utilizing both urban sprawl in selected megacities with frontier-like environment 50 miles away from them and insane fantastical communities that lived in the frontiers with abandoned cities, malls, factories, villages and stations.
Such as a community of vegan druids that hate livestock farmers and constantly terrorize them.
Or a community of perverts who are represent your magical realms bullshit with their hidden libraries of smut dotted across the country.
Outbreak of hives of monsters with dangerous abilities that run rampage across the frontiers due to scientific experiment/war creation escapees/dimensional portals.
Packs of dire wolves the size of a motorbike that can cast fireballs making their nest near a lake used as a radioactive dump.

It's pretty easy to make a modern fantasy setting works and filled it with adventures and unique locales.
Only unimaginative and pathetic retards think only medieval era works for the sense of adventure and discovery.

>>51028442
>How do I make viable firearms happen that wouldn't turn melee entirely garbage?
>using 3.5e/PF/d20R
You should choose a better system, I'm serious D20 is shit when it comes to firearms and everything else
If you want melee to stick around even with guns then this is what has to happen
GUNS don't scale in damage
Strength based melee and Health/Toughness does scale
A 9mm always does the same damage an M60 does more but it still doesn't increase over time, melee weapons scale off stats which increase as you gain experience/levels and invest in those stats
Guns would be useful against mobs and weaker enemies and when used in mass by npcs

>>51036732
Let's not forget mad superhero, black suit, vigilante, hitmen and villain factions that constantly fight against each other while causing devastating amount of damage.
Also religious cults with actual avatars of their pantheon on Earth starting conflicts with each other while trying to convert more of the populace forcefully or not to their faith for more power to their gods.
Devils are also real and summoned by satanists to cause disasters and mayhem.
Then add in some international criminal syndicates and magitech research institutes a.k.a. mad scientists organizations into the mix for more chaotic fun.

It looks like the big source of argument, which is good as argument and debate is the soul of productive creative discussion, is that there is no set fantasy world that we're modernizing. The vast array of fantasy worlds have far too many variables to simply modernize whole sale.

For example I see people with clear weapons experience noting the effectiveness of their weapons and how that would affect the growth of a world, then there's the other camp that wants shmaltzy campy pulp. No there isn't anything inherently wrong with pulp persay, but the Pulp folks decry those with a sense of realism without either side acknowledging the level of realism that is attempting to be achieved. Beyond that different settings may have different levels of realism, and are thus subject to different discussions

>Realism.
>Based it on expectation from watching too mnay action movies where everyone die in one shot.

Do you scream foul and claim fake everytime you watch a liveleak video of people getting shot and refusing to die like in your special snowflake mind?

>>51033017
>I don't know why carrying a sword would automatically make you a villain but if that's how you feel about it.

say what?

>>51036517

You mean like niggers?

>>51036366
>>51036459

That is actually the problem. Look at the trouble we have here. But, consider that only the most pol of pol would actually believe they aren't human. With orcs? There would really be no question. Same with bugbears or ogres or kobolds.

Further, the excuse of 'it is just a small minority one candy in the bowl' thing is not going to fly here. Because, again going by OPs original description of a 'typical fantasy setting' it isn't that SOME gnolls are a bit rapy and violent, but that rather that their species is in fact exactly that. The rarest of exceptions going in the other way.

What would be the logical outcome of such a situation? Somebody is going to lose, and it aint going to be pretty.

Isolated tribe someplace? OK, basically a reserve or a zoo. But a nation of them? No, not if we keep to the original suggestion of typical fantasy setting.

Now, if we want to change the backgrounds and just say 'orcs are a social construct' and then just have them be humans with a different phenotype that is fine. No problem. But that isn't the original question.

Personally, as I have said before, I'd like to keep to the 'standard fantasy' setting as much as possible and instead of just changing the setting basics come up with reasons for why those fantasy setting trappings still exist. To me that is a fun challenge from world building perspective.

'They are not like that' solves it easily, but where is the fun in that?

>>51037132
In D&D terms, if you actually take a solid hit from a gun you are typically out of combat. Even if not dead, from a game perspective, you are out of the combat and don't really matter any more even if you do live. From a game mechanic point of view the fidelity of difference there just does not matter for mooks, although might have value for a PC.

A little like D&D 5e allows for everyone to use all combat rules, including death saves and such. But the basic suggestion is that you really just use it for PC or special cases.

Those exceptions where someone takes a minor bullet wound and stays in the fight or otherwise takes an injury and stays combat capable? That, from a game mechanic point of view, sounds more like they lost plot armor HP and not 'meat points' if you see my point.

>>51037132
>t. Hasnt seen a gunshot irl

Anyone got any resources (pdfs) specifically about modern/scififantasy settings?

Would love to read some, the worldbuilding general doesn't have any.

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>>51026251
My suggestion would be to

1) decide what level of modern you want to go to. The setting may not get there or go further, but get a general idea for the capabilities and things you want to see added 'modern' wise.

2) Decide what fantasy setting things you want to stick around. You want swords to stay? OK, while you develop the setting keep that in mind. Want 'evil' races to stick around? Keep that in mind. But decide up front what stuff you want to wave the DM plot wand at to stick around (if you can make it plausible).

3) Get a vague idea of how far you are willing to morph the stuff in 2) to keep it around. Orcs need to stay typical fantasy orcs? OK. Or are you willing to just make them [stand in for ethnic group you don't like] with a different phenotype and a few new stereotypes. Don't set it in stone, but get an idea of what your left and right limits are. It will likely change during development, but it will likely be valuable to have an idea.

4) Pick or develop a fantasy setting. No 'modern' just your fantasy setting. Politics, racial locations, powers, etc. Then advance it forward. While doing this keep in mind the stuff you want to keep from the above points and see if you can invent a timeline for why they stick around, or if you find you need to abandon them after all.

I think that is about where I am with this at this point.

How about someone post one of those random campaign generated maps, put a couple of points of data on it, and lets see where it goes?

Here's a question - should there be the epic, massively larger than life individuals capable of feats far beyond most people in a modern fantasy setting that there would be in most others?

>>51034413
Perhaps wizardry is like lots of other academic fields in that the type of personality/time requirements make it extremely difficult to truly master it while being involved in other activities.
So low level mages take their undergrad in magical theory, or their masters in scrying and get jobs working for businesses or governments, while the truly brilliant mages devote their lives to incredibly arcane research, often with extremely limited usefulness.
>>51034528
They can be either or.
It's a cook idea either way.

>>51026657
>>51026849
The thing with the 'savage humanoid races as a metaphor for minorities' both work...and doesn't work. See, it's one thing to deal with a slightly-different human but it's another thing entirely dealing with someone who is say, green, has pointy ears and sharp fangs. Major cosmetic physical differences aside, Keith Baker (Eberron's creator) has an article somewhere on his blog detailing why people feel unease around goblinoid and he points out that D&D goblins see in the dark and have those big eyes. Goblins, for example, are simply biologically suited to a different environment from humans. They are small, live in dark cramped spaces. They are an 'other' on a level much deeper and complex than just skin color and facial features.

A similar example would be Shadowrun trolls. Trolls are naturally large and strong. Imagine having to deal with a troll child at a daycare, for example. The toys aren't suited for his big, strong clumsy hands. He might even accidentally hurt another child, even if he's actually a smart and nice kid. He might not hurt him because he's a brute, he might actually hurt him by simply pushing him, not realizing that a 'small push' between troll kids equal tossing a human (or elven) child into a wall at full force.

>>51041793
That's sort of the reason why I find that having creatures like Orcs and Goblins being killed off.

>>51026657
/pol/ that fast

>>51041793
I don't think they have to be "integrated" into society either. If things stay seperated like they would be in a standard fantasy setting then as it is modernized you don't need to just wipe these 'savage humanoid races' out but employ some form of population control (See >>51030003). You can essentially force them to keep to themselves in order to survive.

What's the best system for a sci-fi fantasy like this?

Thinking GURPS, Fate, M&M, Shadowrun, PotA, or even Fantasy Age

Any ideas guys?

>>51043416
Depends on how competent the players to be. If you are more into the Pulp/Anime action genre then I'd recommend using games that use the Ubiquity system, such as Desolation and All for One: Regime Diabolique, also the whole easy to use free form magic system is pretty awesome in my opinion. For a more realistic campaign I'd say using Basic Role Playing would be useful.

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>>51043416
If you want D&D or Final Fantasy levels of high fantasy nonsense mixed with modern or futuristic technology then you can't go wrong with any supers system like M&M, Wild Talents, Hero or what have you
If you want to get a little more gritty or simulationist GURPS or another generic system could work
OR you could always refluff Shadowrun and use that with no hacking of the system needed

What you and the rest of the thread need to do is hash out exactly what kind of setting you want and for what kind of game do you want relatively average joes in a "realistic" setting or high flying heroes in a world of wonder

Really you just need a system that handles superpowers/magic/ki/whatever and guns/bombs/lazers being thrown around at the same time without one being objectively better than the other
Personally I would use M&M if only for the Damage rules since most of the arguments in the thread are about guns kicking the shit out of everything because they should do 16d10 damage with a 15-20 crit range

>>51043876
My argument for why guns don't do that much damage boils down to "Oh your guns would probably turn this the BBG to paste but sadly you seem to only be able to graze him because he's not so stupid as to stand in front of the barrel of your gun. Mooks totally."

Does a modern fantasy not use gold as a currency anymore? Would kingdoms and nations use fiat currency? How would trade change? How do merchants transport goods? Does modernization mean that we would see the rise of trade empires?

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>>51044542
I would assume that in more civilized areas there would be a gold backed monetary system but frontier settlements might use a combination of that and a barter system of rare shit and monster parts that adventurers bring in

>>51045036
Might it depend on how scarce gold actually is in the setting?

I think if you just throw in the modern day technology without mixing it with magic, and showing how magic and technology developed alongside eachother, it wouldn't be as impressive

>>51043416
Honestly if I did something like this I would just do D&D 5e. I like the system that much, I'd rather modify as needed than take another system.

>>51043876
>Personally I would use M&M if only for the Damage rules since most of the arguments in the thread are about guns kicking the shit out of everything because they should do 16d10 damage with a 15-20 crit range

Depends on how you look at damage. If you see damage as meat points only then what you describe is probably kinda accurate (sorta, not really, but whatever). If you take the point of view that HP are plot armor that gets taken away bit by bit, then in reality there is no reason for a gun to really do more damage than a sword. Because when you finally get down to that last hit that actually connects, from a game mechanic point of view there isn't a whole lot of difference in outcomes to my putting a 5.56 in to your chest or running a sword through it. You are still out of the fight for all intents. And, yeah, mooks should just drop either way.

BBEG? No problem, he has plot armor to - just like in the action movies.

The real problem comes when you start talking about monsters, especially big monsters. Monsters that are shrugging off tons of damage in a fantasy fight because they are big and strong. That is fine when it is spears and such, but all of a sudden I can bring a 50 cal or a LAW if I need - and that is going to do stupid amounts of physical damage.

To a PC? I'd argue that a 50 cal doesn't really need to do more damage than a 9mm because making me believe that agent snowflake pulled a movie stunt and escaped actually being hit at the last second for one isn't any harder for the other (and when he takes that last hit to the head solid, it really doesn't matter which it was).

But dragons stand there and take damage, take hits. It is hard to say 'yeah, we were able to take these things down with spears. It was hard, but we could do it' and then expect me to worry when I bring a squad of guys with rifles.

>>51048006
I like to think of HP as half meat half luck/plot
There is no denying that in most games with HP players can survive bullshit at higher levels than they ever could at lower level and some of those can't be explained by "I dodged" like multiple story falls and being submerged in some hazardous material
M&M's health system just works for me their are other systems that could model health better but M&M is my personal choice for what kind of game I would go for

>>51048006
>>51048556
This is why I love Ubiquity as the game is built with the idea that all characters can do stunts to dodge fire. A guy fires a SMG at you and you roll your dodged or ducked behind cover in time to avoid major damage and then you roll armor to see if the armor soaks all the damage or if it hits an unarmored spot.

>>51048556
>some of those can't be explained by "I dodged" like multiple story falls and being submerged in some hazardous material

Actually they can. Those are the cases where the guy just happened to land in the trash truck or hit soft stuff on the way down.

If no such thing could possibly exist then the GM should rule it as an instant death situation.

But, the reality is that in functional play damage is just described as damage. But I hold that it should be seen as plot armor.

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Would this be appropriate to give a party at the start of a modern campaign?

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>>51048925
Yes
They could upgrade to this later

>>51048925
Totally.

>>51049009
I'm thinking of coming up with a system for enchanting rides. Might call it pimping. Perhaps it'll all be run by the arch-artificer X'Zibitte.

>>51048925

I've had something like that in mind like that. The PCs hop on board with a merchant who hauls their goods on a rickety as truck until they've accumulated money and prestige to get something better or pimp their old ride.

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>>51049034
"Yo dawg we heard you like flames so we painted flames on it and enchanted it burst into flames randomly!"

>>51049090
If they don't damage it or the occupants that's an amazing ability.

>>51026819
Dwarves control our banks our media and our academia.

Notice how the Dwarf-owned stations always show elf women with orc men on TV? Notice how they support orc immigration to elf glades? Well they don't practice what they preach because the Mountainhame has been practically an apartheid state ever since it was given to them by the Leonen Empire.

>>51049103
I imagine the outside just bursting into flames and the occupants sighing and saying "Someone turn on the air conditioning."

How do we handle business and industry in such a setting? Typical fantasy conventions have guilds so maybe they translate over into the powers behind the businesses that work.

For example. You have a few groups that collectively handle moving packages from place to place. Some want you to wear a uniform and do it in a certain way while others are essentially the uber of pack couriers where you can bid to carry packages going to the same city/village you're going to.

This sort of thing creates opportunities for PCs to move around and make cash as well.

>>51049258
It'd probably be pretty prudent to see how real world guilds evolved into the businesses of today.

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>>51036754
First things first. Melee is garbage, pretending otherwise is rule of cool bullshit. but I will try to help anyway.

Firearms have a learning curve of a cliff. most people who just pick up a gun will not hit shit. most police officers barely practice an cannot hit shit either. use that somehow. Also safety, realosing, and other controls. Unless you know the firearm, there is a good change you will pick it up, and not be able to shoot it.

Guns increase in accuracy, speed of reloading and such things (Handling) with time. Firearms are surprisingly hard to use without experience.

Damage is mainly based on ammunition. The only measurable thing that affects "Power" between firearms of the same ammunition type is barrel length, longer barrels allowing more powder to burn causing an increase in velocity. So you can get stronger with melee but not with firearms.

>>51036679
Is kinda right. You can improve strength with melee but it will not effect firearms. He kind of bullshitted with the blood loss though. thats what will happen UNLESS you hit a major organ.

>>51049034
This is cool. I like this.

>>51049308

That depends on the business which could be a source of conflict in and of itself:

Various trade guilds that pass on training via teacher/student/family type deals versus mass manufacturing.

Perhaps the gunsmith/blacksmiths tend to jealously guard their secrets and while there are businesses that will crank out swords and guns for some citie's army and guards if you want a truly hand-made custom weapon then you go to x-aligned weapon shop.

Mass produced magic items that wear out and have to be re-charged versus one that is vastly more expensive but has the time and care put into it to make it more permanent.

I'd like to imagine Dwarves would be the sort who pride themselves on their particular industry whether it's smithing mining or cooking and loath the idea of assembly lines because it take away the "soul" of a thing. Granted, you don't need dwarves for this idea to work but it makes npcs like a famous gunsmith more viable I think when you want a legendary six-shooter or rifle.

>>51049110
Ach lad, tis almost like another Doom of Moria.

All this anti-squatism is just proof that Emperor Trunt is LITERALLY Durin's Bane.

>>51049258
>>51049308
I would forsee guilds progressing to trade empires becoming hyper competitive and having a sizeable hand in the goings-on of the kingdoms and nations.
They'd probably be hyper competitive to the point of espionage (Which would make for great campaigns, like >>51029660).
If development goes the way of >>51034266 then you could see why they would be this way.

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>>51048006
>I'd argue that a 50 cal doesn't really need to do more damage than a 9mm.

No. Its very, VERY hard to explain, because ballistics is a shit fit even among firearms company but i can give you some help there.

First of depending on Armour. if its level III or level II, IIa soft you will be fine with 9mm (It will hurt though). No wearable body armour will save you against .50, forget that.

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml

Disregarding armour is how many shots will put down a target. shot placement is king. Most living things have been killed by a single .22, but nobody will ever recommend a .22 for self defense, so I will use "center mass" or hits to the torso as a example.

For example 7.62 x51 is would generally be considered to be a 1-2 hit down, 7.62x39 2-3, 5.56 3-5, 9mm 5+. this is extreme generalization though. .50 or bigger your fucking dead unless you got lucky and got hit in a limb. bye, bye limb though.


Handguns suck, there only use is as backup to get to your main firearm or concealablility. The shorter barrel really effects velocity, and lack of more points of contact, less accuracy do to short sight radius and barrel length, yada yada.

>>51049317
To add to my earlier post, firearm availability could also be used. Laws could effect accessibility of firearms or to a greater effect carry of said firearms (Becase crude firarms are surprisingly easily made). Most are hard to hide and strict laws would prohibit carrying and or possesion. (See britain)

basically most guns you could carry and hide are relatively ineffective. also 21 foot rule and such.

>>51049620
Also damn I sound like an idiot when I speed write. Too many thoughts, too little time and coherency. And slow fingers.

>>51049556

So essentially going the route of Megacorps as they are depicted in most cyberpunk/sci-fi settings where a business becomes a soverign nation in it's own right.

I imagine there wouldn't be too many of those. Basically whatever requires a monopoly on an important trade or resources. So in this case possibly resources essential to magic such as specific resources or the means of manufacturing these resources.

>>51049317
>pretending otherwise is rule of cool bullshit
>rule of cool
Exactly this doesn't have to be 100000000% true to life you miserable cunt we're talking about a fantasy world it doesn't matter how modern you make it it's still fantasy and therefore must follow certain fantasy tropes
A dragon is the least realistic thing on the fucking planet but it's still as much of a fantasy staple as sword an board but I don't see you complaining about the possibility of those fuckers flying around

Everyone in this thread seems to have made the mistake of thinking that "modernizing" a fantasy setting means taking all the fantastical elements out by doing away with every weapon except guns and genociding all the non human races
Why don't you all crack your fucking brains open and just role with the idea that melee is still common among the heroic individuals that make up the player characters and important npcs instead of trying to drag fantasy down into realism

>>51049668
Or like America today, where everyone but the top percentile of citizens are little more than serfs to the guild leaders running all production and trade, holding our economy hostage for tax breaks.

>>51049620
At that point you just get the "You get grazed" sort of thing unless you do the thing that the Warhammer RPGs do and calculates the threshold of damage that a limb can withstand before being completely useless.

Plus Indian Jones wouldn't be nearly as fun if you go off the idea that every bullet actually hits.

>>51049668
>>51049689
Actually the first real "Megacorperation" was actually the East India Company.

>>51049668
Maybe.
I'm imagining something along the lines of trade alliances, in which several guilds come under one banner (Not merged into one entity) to compete. Not quite the size of megacorps, but in some cases can treat themselves as a sovereign nation like if they were to consist of a large number of islands.

>>51049708
This is very much what I had in mind. Not quite so expansive (Depending on the size of your own fantasy setting) but still sizeable and do hold some influence and allegiance to some sort of government entity whether it be the crown, war council, or parliment of mages and wise men, the senate, whatever.

>>51049682
This is what I've talked about earlier in the thread. Modernizing a fantasy setting doesn't mean just shoehorning guns into a fantasy settings and saying "melee is obsolete now". If it were to be a high fantasy setting, the world would likely modernize in a much different way that would definitely involve the heavy use of magic which is why I've suggested the Magi route where very low level magic becomes accessible to the common man through tools of which these guilds/trade entities manufacture and compete with.

>>51049794

So we have the beginnings of a setting where the few kingdoms initially funded basically !East Indian Companys that went out, gained economic power and eventually became independent from their old progenitors.

Nation States versus Kingdom/Empires Old world versus New World. While the Nation States use what we would consider modern uniforms the old Kingdoms build their military power around the nobility sworn to protect their land and kingdom as well as the odd mercenary company looking for the highest bidder

*cough* Outer Heaven *cough*

>>51049794
Technically guns in fantasy aren't new if you've played Pathfinder or Warhammer. Really the issue is making guns the end all be all weapon of every setting. A better way of looking at it would be to take a pulp fiction sort of attitude to fighting like how Indiana Jones doesn't die when fighting against 12 Nazis all armed with SMGs.

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>>51049682
I am not suggesting that. Its possible if implemented right its just harder and requires research.

If you know about certain things if something is handled incorrectly it can be extremely immersion breaking, for hobbyist it can feel painful. Guns are just the most common culprit.

Tell me what you want And i will try to help.

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>>51049692
That's what the armor is for good friend. COMPLETLY disregarding magic and using only reality;

Level I - IIIa armor is usually soft armor. light and easily concealable will stop up to .44 mag and 12 gauge. WIILL not stop melee puncture attacks. Repeated hits will cause bruising an possibly break ribs.

Level III - Level IV hard plate is will stop varying rifle rounds (>>>http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml), but steel is heavy and ceramics are only slightly less heavy can only take a few hits. Also don,t cover much and are much, much heavier then earlier Armour.

>>51049870
I think that is a good basis to work with. It gives the setting multiple different types of government/trade entities to work with which makes the world varied and in my opinion, fun.

>>51049885
I don't think they're new either but they're native to that setting. A lot of anons in the thread are under the assumption that modernization means modern firearms. In some settings it does but I feel that in a lot of other settings it doesn't and I think that in this case of world building that not having guns and having the world develop a different way is more interesting and fun and also solves some of the issues that comes with guns coupled with high fantasy.
But that's me assuming that when OP said fantasy, he meant high fantasy (Swords & Sorcery, D&D, Tolkien, etc.) in which case I think Pathfinder is a good way to look at things or going the pulp fiction route like you suggest.

>>51050074
Personally I don't mind stuff like, Pistols, Rifles and Shotguns in a fantasy setting, a FMA did it in stride, I just don't think it necessarily means that swords should be useless in that type of environment, again check FMA for more details. Pulp fiction is usually the best way I can cut this setting in my mind as it's the funnest type of game to play in and it lets you have swords and guns be equally effective.

>>51050135
The main reason I figure people can use melee in a world where firearms exist is because people use melee in world where archery exists.

>>51050151
People still use plenty of melee. People forget that. It has its place. But mostly in a civilian environment, not militarily.

>>51050190
Hell, even soldiers still use melee weapons like knives and batons.

>>51050135
>>51050151
>>51050190

You'd imagine in a setting with things like FMA's automail you'd have people who can utilize melee and firearms (literally) usually combined within their prosthesis. I mean, Buccanear had a damn chainsaw for an arm on top of having the Grizzly arm which was just a regular arm with diamond tipped claws.

Hell, thinking like this we may be approaching the whole melee versus fireamrs thing all wrong or rather limiting ourselves. Big sword wielding dudes may be rare but arm knives and claws and shield arms would be good in CQC where people are pulling pistols and shotguns.combined with the otherwise implied superhuman strenght of "fighters"

>>51050277
I know that in Final Fantasy XV one of the villains gets a prosthetic limb made out of demon magic and shit. Personally I'd limit that sort of thing before we get into cyberpunk territories.

Really the reason why we limit ourselves to swords and shit is because when we think of fantasy we think of people swinging around longswords and whatnot and that's just a consequence of conceiving of this in a fantasy setting.

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>>51050335

Automail wasn't too cyberpunk. Besides, it's not like the limbs have to be all cybernetic and shit. You could still have a hook hand that has a bunch of gadgets in it. Besides. How could would it be for a knight in his tactical plate mail fighting a limber combat monster like gazelle?

>>51050277
We could go the route of RWBY in which melee weapons are combined with firearms.
It'd be a fun way to allow people to be very creative with weapons in the setting and allow for some cool scenarios in CQC.

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>>51050277
Exactly, this is what i've been trying to say this whole thread. Its all approached wrong.

iff you go the FMA rout the prosthetics are okayish, but in reality its kind of silly for multiple reasons. Mainly ackwardness of use and the social issues of having a fucking weapon attacked to your body. Okay for deep concealment though.

Anyway.., Melee is good for quick offensive attacks, against other melee or unarmed opponents and stealth. Close enough if opponent is not ready, 21 foot rule again. Ill have to find a video.

If your not using military conflict, melee is still very important. Use military as High level rare conflicts. If the military is after you you fucked up bad. Remember all the training (Training is skill levels after all.) and equipment they get. Police officers are less effective for many reasons I can list if you want. Most people will not be good with firearms, I cannot stress this enough. This is coming from a firearm owner. Again i will list if you want. Also Dunning-Kruger effect, remember most anit-gunners believe firearms are pretty much magical. Some one with little skill and experiance gets hold of a gun and shit hits the fan.

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I think this thread needs to establish the tone and genre conventions this theoretical setting operates under before we discuss government and arms
I mean what are we going for with this Final Fantasy, Full Metal Alchemist, Forgotten Realms set in 1988. Are PCs a cut above everyone else or all regular joes, is magic usable in combat or is it all ritual, are there non-human races or not,
What does modern mean does it mean post industrial revolution, post magical industrial revolution, mana transistors, cars with demon engines
Until we establish tone we will just continue arguing about everything since we are all coming in with what we would want to see

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>>51050386

If the setting is devoid of real (or proper) regenerative magics then it makes sense a person who makes a living via conflict could make use of a missing limb for a weapon. I mean, why not?

>>51050405
Indeed. Conflict changes based on who's participating. armies arn't going to fight the way a couple of murderhobos will (and besides, a well trained military unit could seriously fuck up non god moded murderhobos). A regular soldier isn't going to running full tilt into a squad of dudes with a sword but you could always have some sneaky type using stealth magic to basically sneak up and shank people or get in real close and pull and evesor on them.

>>51050413
These are things we need to hash out although some good ideas have come of this that can be carried over into another thread.

>>51050405
Totally agree though in the FMA universe they aren't convinced of as weapons mainly because you have augment them to do something in particular. You could have an auto-mail arm that's a deadly as a steel truncheon but it would be heavy and uncomfortable for the wearer, etc., etc.

>>51050413
I'm thinking the best tone for this at the moment would be something along the lines of a Pulp-action/Anime action, I put them in the same category because technically they are similar.

>>51050477
Yes definitely another thread. I work tomorrow so there will be gaps in my posting.

I'm tempted to temporarily name fag in this thread as its mean to, but the stigma attached to namefaggin is stopping me.

>>51050526
Meh, as long as you aren't autistic people tend to not care. I've already got a prompt for the next thread lined up already.

>>51050521
>Totally agree though in the FMA universe they aren't convinced of as weapons mainly because you have augment them to do something in particular. You could have an auto-mail arm that's a deadly as a steel truncheon but it would be heavy and uncomfortable for the wearer, etc., etc.

An acceptable drawback which should also have some social impact. If you turned your stump of an arm into a weapon then you give up some utility with it for it to be a killing weapon. Maybe perhaps the most sophisticated prosthesitcs could let you pretend it's a normal one but otherwise they need to obvious they are used to kill people.

You're not going to walk around with a bear claw arm and be able to pen a letter with it.

>>51050521
Yes that. but also think of today's attitude towards weaponry especially in places like Britain where an electrician got arrested for having a screwdriver in his pocket.

Now imagine being on a subway and a guy with a fucking chainsaw attached to his arm in plain sight walks by. How the fuck do you think people are going to react?

>>51050570
>>51050571
Perhaps something like a pop out blade or pistol would be interesting and also highly illegal.

Also how does prothetic limbs effect magic users who have them?

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>>51050560
Eh. Okay then. Does this show earlier posts? That would be nice.

This feels so, so wrong though. Fucking board culture.

>>51050616

Perhaps limits your ability to do complex spells? The sort that requires complicated hand-signs in a long winded ritual or something.

A fireball might be easier to do but then why not pull a Guts and have your arm be a one shot cannon unless you can afford the magic version.

>>51050620
Nope.

>>51050616
Possible. There are plenty of real world examples if I bother looking. Remember, they are usually quite ineffective and clumsy.

However ill make a cut off here. It IS fantasy and their has to be sacrifices to realism.

for example the assassins creed blade has been proven to be kind of stupid. However you can make working examples. That are shit. And will probably brake. And are large. And prone to accidents.

DEEP BREATH, fantasy, realistic fantasy but still fantasy. let it go.

AHHHHHHHH!

>>51050647
Really I don't know why enchanted guns would be a thing. With enchanted bows I could understand, increases durability/flexibility, but not so much with guns.

>>51050676
Probably a better way of thinking as a pop out ice pick/punching dagger that comes out through the knuckles.

>>51050701

Armored knuckles or maybe a spike through the palm? The first one you have a club hand that, as described earlier, would be like an iron truncheon, the second could be what you use to jab into people's chest or palm strike through in the jaw to stab into the brainpan, points if you fire blanks to burst the spike through.

>>51050413
I would definitely be inclined be in a Final Fantasy type of setting. Lots of magic that can be used on the fly in combat but some that is ritual (Especially on the stronger magic side of tings).
If we were to go by what OP suggested the setting is a typical fantasy. I'm assuming that means D&D? Or Tolkien?

>>51050477
>I mean, why not?
Well, even with regenerative magics there is still magic. In which case I could definitely see magic augmented limbs being a definite thing.

>>51050728
Yeah something like wolverine claws that pop out.

>>51050745
>Well, even with regenerative magics there is still magic. In which case I could definitely see magic augmented limbs being a definite thing.

Tentacle limbs could be the other end of the spectrum. Body horror monsters with animal arts grafted to their bodies such as jaws or tentacles (and then we get into bloodborne shit like Kos Parasite)

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>>51026251

>>51050803
Not sure how this applies?

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>>51050787
Well that kind of freakshow is par for the course when it comes to the horrific side of magic in a standard fantasy setting. It has less to do with the modernization of a setting and more to do with people getting fucked up by their local crazy ass wizard or necromancer.

>>51050682
Honestly? Many reasons.

>Self sighting iron sights. you want my money? Ill give you all my fucking money for this.
>Rust preventative, Self lubricating.
>Recoil reduction.
>Heat dispersion. Current problem with caseless.
>Magical scopes. The Possibilities!
>Stronger alloys.
>Better primers.
>Enchanted ammunition.
>Bag of Holding Magazines

... I could go on all day.

>>51050813
honestly i just posted it so i could link it to a friend using 4chan's hosting service. this was the most relevant thread i could find on a moment's notice. Sorry.

>>51050853
Heh, fair enough. I just wrote the thing, so I was curious to see it pop up here.

>>51050826
Fair enough. Self Sighting Irons sights and Magical scopes not so much but yeah makes since, though that's a cost to effectiveness sort of argument.

>>51050825

Indeed, but then you have the same sort of people who'd put a gun on their stump of a hand would probably go to some black market fleshcrafter and have an extendable tentacle with a blade on the end of it. Imagine the shock when the local police guy gets his head cut off by a dude that has something like the Plagas parasite wriggling around with a bone blade.

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>>51050889

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>>51050860
Oh, I love it. I love the concept, you've articulated a setting I've had a hard time articulating myself. I love how it feels like Kerbal Space Program by way of Ridley Scott. My only complaint is that you used "Seegson Synthetics" which is very obviously a fictional brand from the Alien Universe. Probably would have liked it more if you called it Sampson Synthetics or something similar. That way the homage would be noted, and I wouldn't be IMMEDIATELY reminded of Alien Isolation everytime I say the name out loud. Unless your intention is to say that Faster than the Dark IS in fact the Alien Universe, although I'm pretty sure there are some lore discrepancies with that.

No but for real though, thank you for writing it. Love the concept to pieces. Have you made any other games?

>>51050745
>magic augmented limbs being a definite thing.
I could see magical material for decreased weight while maintaining strength
Also for weaponized prostheses you could have one that pops open and shoots like a Searing Ray or a Cone of Fire

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>>51050914
Heh, well, I had to throw a few references in. And Seegson is fairly... obscure.

I'm working on a Star Wars Fate Core hack at the moment, but other than a few odds and ends, I haven't really designed much.

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>>51050863
Magical scopes could be amazing. You know how we have thermal and night vision? You could get that earlier with magic.

Detect life scope? Fuck ya.
Scope not affected by atmospheric conditions? Fuck ya.
Detect magic scope? Definitely.
Cursed scopes? Could be vicious. Or just mean.

Many possibilities.

Self Sighting Irons sights are mostly just convince and I cant go for range trips often.

>>51050945
Ah. D&D isn't necessary my game of choice for this type of game. A more freeform magic system is my jam.

>>51050944
>Alien Isolation
>obscure

lol, nice meme

>>51050977
Compared to actual pop culture... yeah. Kind of obscure.

It sold <3 million copies. Drop in the bucket, if you're looking at a non /tg/ browsing player base.

>>51050945

I wish I could find it but it was something that looked like it came out of thunderbolt fantasy where some chick pulled out a rifle, shoved some stones into it and shot them from ultra long distance to strike one of the main characters.

You can't tell me we're having guns without having some crazy stuff to go with it as well? A noble house hold of hunters who specialize in special rifles of their own make that allows them to shoot a target from leagues out or something like that.

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>>51050971
The ideas still hold, just more variety.

>A foam-lined attache-case containing a weather-beaten, unloaded WA-2000 rifle, chambered in .300 Winchester Magnum. Its wooden stock is engraved with the word "SERAFIN" in simple script. Mounted is a telescopic sight constructed of unpolished dark metal. Casual examination of the sight-picture would suggest that the scope is inoperative, showing nothing but pitch-blackness and lacking a reticule of any kind. When aimed at a living creature, a magnified silhouette of the target appears consisting of bluish-green wisps of fire, despite whatever obstructions should block line of site. When fired, the target is struck in a lethal location with the mundane ammunition, regardless of range, with the trajectory appearing to alter of its own accord to strike however many victims are inside the sight-picture, through whatever cover they are sheltered behind..

Disassembling the scope or separating it from the rifle render it completely inoperable and irreparable. The rifle, however, is fully functional so long as it is maintained adequately, even with the scope removed. The means by which the scope and rifle operate together is a mystery, but one can determine under close scrutiny and after trial-and-error that the range of this device has no discernible limitations, besides a permanent 18x zoom, nonadjustable due to a distinct lack of dials on the device.

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>>51050889
>>51050911
Ah I see where that is going.

>>51050929
That would definitely be possible. I guess in order to figure this all out we have to agree to the basis of the setting the thread is going to be using from here on out and build it from there as >>51050413 is suggesting. I've already put my hat in the ring by wanting to go the Final Fantasy route but I wouldn't be adverse to seeing classic high fantasy like Tolkien or D&D since most people are familiar with them.
It doesn't mean we have to use any specific system but just use it as the basis for the world itself.

>>51051037

I'm all about the kitchen sink. Taking what is cool and throwing them in the blender.

A FF15 style world with FF12 style airships with FMA style magic presthetics with Blood/Souls magic/monsters combined with Riddick-verse like demigods like the Lord Marshal stomping around. with a hearty helping of Wuxia and Metal Gear in there somewhere.

>>51051037
I find the hard part is not going too crazy.

you need to set baseline rules that can't be broken for you setting. Basic one is physics. FMA had "Cant Revive the Dead" stuff like that. No rules and it becomes a game of free-form. Aka "i teleport behind you before you teleport behind me and throw you into the sun which turns into a katana."

>>51051104
>"i teleport behind you before you teleport behind me and throw you into the sun which turns into a katana."

I laughed and startled a sleeping family member.

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>>51051079
I like that idea. I'm much more into the FF14 style since it's very heavy on the fantasy but whatever works works. As long as it doesn't go too far.

>>51051104
I can see the difficulty in needing to have some restraint. I guess rules should be established before the setting is created then? That way you can keep the bad elements out and keep what can stay in line with said rules.
>I teleport behind you before you teleport behind me and throw you into the sun which turns into a katana
kek

New Thread?

>>51051149

>>51051155
I believe so yes. It establishes a baseline, that the world is built around.

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>>51051160
>making a new thread before this one hits bump limit
Why?

>>51051167
I guess that should be the major topic of the next thread then.

>>51051181
I have no idea what the bump limit actually is.

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>>51051079
I agree wholeheartedly with how you're thinking of taking the setting
If I had my way it would grant the PCs a nominal level of power right off the bat when it came to combat
Tech level would be something like a cross between FF15 and FF7 with some crazier magitech used by large organizations and BBEGs
Guns would be widely used by militaries and police but melee weapons are still carried by both and PC level characters and monsters can ignore firearms not built to handle them
Magic is rare but not Rare not everyone can use it but they can use magical items built to channel mana

>>51051198
I'd just have it to where magic was an inherent trait in people.

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>>51051196
It's 300 posts anon. I'd recommend deleting the thread and then making a new one with a proper OP to stay on topic. New OP should probably stick with the name we have now (But with #2, or are we turning this into a general?). Then ask the question or have the thread topic be about establishing the baseline rules of the world and creating a setting with those rules.

>>51051213
Agreed
When I said magic was rare that was more guys who can manipulate magic overtly, everyone possesses some magic that's what lets them use magical devices
Or at least that's how I would do it

>>51051198
>>51051213
Sorry meant to say in certain people.

>>51051213
Or have it a commodity that can be bought and sold, like Materia in FF7. It gives a plight to the poor, as they can only affect weaker materias that are deemed 'safe' for mass consumption, which is good for cyberpunk / magicpunk stuff.

Or if you want to go more utopia, that expensive Curaga ability is just a quick adventure away, so even a poor guy can stock up on Fire spells, a semi-automatic rifle, and go find some ancient ruins to raid so they can save granny and get the farm back.

>>51051233
It is done. Turning this into a general sounds good as we've had 3 threads that've reached the bump limits already.

>>51051239
That's the kind of bull you find in urban fantasy, where the goal is to segregate magic from the normies. This is a world that's known and made use of magic since time immemorial I should think. Make magic difficult to learn and hard to accomplish great feats with, but I wouldn't want this turning into x-men.

>>51051251
Sort of the way I view magic is that it is an energy source and spell casters manipulate it to create effects: Turning it into fireballs, having it connect to the bodies of dead people to have them move like puppets, etc.

>>51051296
In this case, we should wait to make a new thread (even if we hit bump limit) so we can figure out what to say in the OP. Right now it seems we need to establish the rules of the universe so that is definitely the topic of the next thread.

>>51051296
Also the part about the arqubus is stupid if it is to be even remotely modern.

remember 80's is the decade that made us.

>>51051298
Not necessarily, I mean in Ars Magica you have to have the gift to be a spell caster. I sort of view it has having a unique talent like being larger than everyone else etc.

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>>51051321
I would say MINIMUM 1890- WW1. Things were fun and intrusting then in the firearms world. Everything was still being experimented with. still plenty of bugs to iron out.

>>51051321
Well again the goal is to kind of walk the setting up from it's medieval period to a contemporary period period. So I figured having a sort of baseline to where the setting starts.

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>>51051352
I would have to agree with moving tech to at least the Industrial Revolution

>>51051321
I'm a child of the 90's.

>>51051377
19th - 21st Century then.

>>51051359
Ah. Ok so were starting history early. What kind of magic and races? What is a definite no-no? what type of country? Lots of stuff to figure out.

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>>51051395
19th-20th at least
21st starts to introduce a lot of tech that could complicate things like ubiquitous computers and cell phones

Okay so prompt for next thread:

>What are the hard and fast scientific laws for the setting? i.e. no magical resurrection

>>51051399
Yeah about as early as the fantasy we know starts.

>>51051427
True enough, though I will say I like the idea of smart phones in a fantasy setting.

>>51051428
No time shenanigans
Resurrection is either stuff of legend aka only high level PCs or ridiculously expensive

>>51051452
Or you literally have to face off against god to get your friend back.

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>>51051233
I stand corrected. I think bump limit on /tg/ is ~320.
How's this for an image to use in the OP?

>>51051428
Here. Have this.

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>>51051428
Okay so basic rules. WHAT KIND OF FANTASY? can't believe I forgot this. Please no over the top magic, need some sort of attainable rules. Limits per say. preferably relatively simple like... mistborn or the inheritance cycle. stuff like that. Dnd and pathfinder try too much and end up gaudy and overdone. Scrambled eggs with the entire grocery store in it..

Also first first Kobolds as a race.

>>51051469
For some reason the file is 404ing on me. Quick someone else get it!

>>51051428
Magic is capable of bullshit. People working together rarely are and a person simply isn't.

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>>51051479
I can post it again although it has slightly smaller font size this time.

>>51051452
Agreed. Extremely rare and sought after. So magic has been around the whole time, basic rules as solid as physics, space and time? not like shadowrun?

No breaking basic physics. or at least make it sneaky. No anime bullshit.

>>51051496
I think we might have hit the image limit here as everything after >>51051427 is coming up as 404. 'fraid you must go this one alone padre.

>>51051473
I'd say Warhammer fantasy is a good baseline... Without all the hell juice of course.

>>51051508
We haven't hit the image limit though.
Bump limit is 315, image limit if 150 (Unless the board is different for some reason and I haven't noticed).

https://my.mixtape.moe/yjzjuu.png

FUCK THE 404 CAN'T KEEP ME DOWN

>>51051525
>https://my.mixtape.moe/yjzjuu.png
Thanks partner.

Well Good night. If anybody asked its your faults that I namefagged.

>>51051535
No problem. I used to run the ODT on /wg/ before mods banned the desktop threads out of existence so I made OP images all the time.

>>51051613

>>51051615
Cool. Nighty night all hopefully I'll be able to post tomorrow, this is really getting the brain juices flowing.

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Alright

So, I guess we can establish some rules about magic

>The Law Of Knowledge

With understanding comes control and power over a thing. One who doesn't know themself or has never tested themself cannot know their own potential.

>The Law of Names

Knowing the true and complete name of a thing grants power over it. And speaking the true name of a thing may summon it.

>The Law of Association

Things react on each other based on their connection. Like things produce like things, and effects resemble their causes. Once a thing has had contact with another thing they may continue to influence each other from a distance. A part is equivalent to the whole (like using a person's nail clippings to work magic on them). If one being wishes to assume the form or traits of another, they must possess more knowledge of the thing to be more effective in imitation.

The effectiveness of the connection created by the Law of Association depends upon the relevance of the contact. For example, if only one person has ever worn a pair of shoes, it's easy to use the shoes magically to identify that person, because that person is very relevant to those shoes. However, identifying the last person to use, say, a house pair of bowling shoes is difficult or impossible, because that person has no special relevance to those shoes.

>The Law of Opposition

The combination of two concepts will create a third without comprising the two concepts. Anything may be split in two, each part having it's own essence. Maintaining one's power of energy level is vital. An imbalance from overexertion only ends badly.

>Law of Information

Knowledge is limitless

>Law of Senses

The senses are fragile things, and they can only allow one to perceive so much (hence the whole exploding or going blind/insane when seing beings beyond mortal comprehension).