Modern Fantasy General

Previous Thread: >>51026251

>>51051613
I agree, no stuff that bends the laws of space-time or physics. Enchantment or augmentation would be cool, elemental manipulation is good as well. I think a hard limit would be something that nature can't reproduce.

>>51051613
This >>51051494 being true would curb most of the craziness, at least from the part of mortals. I'm more than fine with powerful and strange magical phenomena and creatures existing and while not too common, at least heard of and felt in everyday life.

It should be made obvious that the people of this setting live in a magical world and have long ago come to terms with their reality.

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>>51051613
I'd love to see Final Fantasy 14 style fantasy. It allows for a large range of magic for both ritual and on the fly use along with a variety of melee combat styles.
On the other hand I'm very inclined to stick to classic Tolkien style high fantasy. Elfs, Orcs, Humans, Dwarfs, etc.
This also begs the questions about races but I guess this can all be decided after basic rules are established. I can agree with putting the breaks on when it comes to straight up resurrection, time travel and the likes.

>>51051699
This most definitely.

Do we allow for there to be multiple planes of existence?

>>51051718
I think sticking to the usual suspects in terms of races (the Big 4, plus maybe a fifth if we are feeling creative) would allow us to develop them in a modern context while still allowing for that more traditional fantasy feel.

>Do we allow for there to be multiple planes of existence?
I think that's pushing it, but that's just me. I like the idea of elementals and spirits though, I just don't think there should be transplanar travel and the like. Just like resurrection magic, maybe it's just the stuff of legends.

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>>51051734
How about beings of a higher existence?

>>51051784
I already did mate.

>>51051669

>>51051845
It's 4:13AM and I'm blind.

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Alright

So, I guess we can establish some rules about magic

>The Law Of Knowledge

With understanding comes control and power over a thing. One who doesn't know themself or has never tested themself cannot know their own potential.

>The Law of Names

Knowing the true and complete name of a thing grants power over it. And speaking the true name of a thing may summon it.

>The Law of Association

Things react on each other based on their connection. Like things produce like things, and effects resemble their causes. Once a thing has had contact with another thing they may continue to influence each other from a distance. A part is equivalent to the whole (like using a person's nail clippings to work magic on them). If one being wishes to assume the form or traits of another, they must possess more knowledge of the thing to be more effective in imitation.

The effectiveness of the connection created by the Law of Association depends upon the relevance of the contact. For example, if only one person has ever worn a pair of shoes, it's easy to use the shoes magically to identify that person, because that person is very relevant to those shoes. However, identifying the last person to use, say, a house pair of bowling shoes is difficult or impossible, because that person has no special relevance to those shoes.

>The Law of Opposition

The combination of two concepts will create a third without comprising the two concepts. Anything may be split in two, each part having it's own essence. Maintaining one's power of energy level is vital. An imbalance from overexertion only ends badly.

>Law of Information

Knowledge is limitless

>Law of Senses

The senses are fragile things, and they can only allow one to perceive so much (hence the whole exploding or going blind/insane when seing beings beyond mortal comprehension).

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Magical Roadtrip Soundtrack: Track #1 - https://youtu.be/HH3ruuml-R4

>>51051613
I think that it would be fine for extraordinary things like resurrection and time shenanigans to be possible, but definitely not easily achieved and possibly not even legal. That makes for more interesting possibilities than just slapping things down with a flat "no".

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>>51051497
>No breaking basic physics. or at least make it sneaky. No anime bullshit.
Gonna have to disagree. I'd like to see magic as being elemental spell and physical enhancement for combat
Mages would be using things like Fireball, Cone of Cold, Wall of Force and the like and Warriors would be using wuxia/fighting game style moves by channeling magic into the body
Magic such as summoning or anything on a massive scale or of any degree of permanence require either multiple people or a magical array prepared ahead of time usually in the form a magical item for the smaller stuff like a Bag of Holding

>>51051904
I mean, stuff like fireball, cone of cold, and wall of force (and wuxia/anime style moves as well) are all technically possible through real physics. They just take an insane amount of energy to accomplish.

Magic is about enhancing or weakening the natural properties of a thing.

For example, lighting a fire using snow a kindling is impossible. Flying without wings is impossible for a human (but jumping stupidly high isn't out of the question). Magical effects are generally difficult to perform from a distance. So no asploding heads in other countries.

Magical effects are always noticeable to some degree, but those deeply involved with magic have an easier time sensing its presence. A super powerful wizard having a vision quest dream in his apartment is the paranormal equivalent of "HEY EVERYONE LOOK WHAT I'M DOING!!!".

Shapeshifting is possible but not something done willy nilly. There must be some connection to the thing being transformed into: be it a totem animal which helped out/married your clan's ancestor ages ago or a magical contagion/knowledge with the person you'll turn into.

>>51051861
>>51051904
>>51051895
We have two opposing ideas about how magic should be done. I personally say it should be more grounded but still have that more wild, untamed side to it. Maybe ressurection magic is possible, but it is highly forbidden magic and illegal in all but the most impoverished countries. Same goes for stuff like teleportation, time travel, ect... I'm also a big sucker for life magic that sucks life force from the user to power the spell.

>>51051904
This or something like here >>51031478

The world and it's people (at least some of them) should clearly be different from those of a normal modern setting. We can fudge the lower and lower-medium levels of power to allow for cool shit. But the upper levels should be strictly defined, and if not, out of reach of single mortals.

Being capable of cool shit is desirable. Being capable of bullshit on a whim is not.

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>>51051971
I agree with this sentiment. It's something we can really use to help usher the setting into its modern age in a unique way. Very low level magic that improves the lives of the common folk is accessible to anyone but anything beyond that it another ballpark.

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>>51051948
I for one have no problem banning/limiting things like time, resurrection and teleportation I just want the magic the players use to be more than a fireball every other encounter
Magic should tire the user or draw on a mana pool sure but I don't want it to be as taxing as some others have suggested

>>51051948
I don't see why teleportation should be outlawed. Shit would be convenient as fuck. If you want to put limits on it just mix Mage rules with Dresden rules. You need a sympathetic link to where you want to go and you can't just pop into someone's house without their consent. Obviously it's difficult magic and areas can be warded from it.

>>51051992
I think a combination of a mana pool and tiring the user out would be good. There is also the issue of who is a magic user and if it is a genetic trait or not. What my main point is though is that high tier stuff like time and resurrection should be stuff that old mages could've done but new, modern mages can't. Maybe there were fewer, but more powerful mages in the past but now there are more mages, but as a whole they are weaker.

>>51052004
Teleportation magic would put a hamper on trade between nations, especially those that get a large amount of their revenue out of taxing trade routes. Due to its utility, I can see it being another outlawed magic, or at least one that only mages with a high level of training (or those given clearance by the government) can use. It's not impossible to use, but people will hunt you down if you use it, there are limitations on where you can travel, and its easily warded against.

>>51051971
Very true

As a rule of thumb when it's possible to cause, stop, or reverse large scale natural disasters/screw with the fundamental laws of physics we're reaching a limit.

Beings capable of affecting the planet/galaxy should be endgame business or uninvolved directly for whatever reason.

>>51051613
I imagine when the tech levels reaches computers, that it'll ironically go a bit more into high fantasy. Like streamlining a bunch of complex rituals into code ala Megami Tensei.

There could still be a ton of problems with it, like still requiring resources (and maybe needing more than doing it manually), or bad coding doing a whole lot more than just an error.

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>>51051613
Let me tell you why Modern Fantasy will never ever work.

Memes. Memes absolutely will ruin Modern Fantasy.

Imagine your an Advent-, I mean Mercenary who is in a tavern when you meet a Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling. You're contracted to do some fetch quest because the DM has no imagination. 1/2 though your first fight, the Elf goes "Killed em like Harambe xD".

Now the Dwarf thankfully is drunk, and just slurs his speech everything while tanking shots from a AK47(also he has a +2 Meme resistance), but not the Halfling, who is also infected by the memeshit the Elf just had to vomit out.

Now the Halfling is a Rogue, which requires stealth, but now he's spouting out meme shit as well. As he's going "LOL HARAMBE GOT PLAY OF THE GAME!", it's enough to draw the attention of one of the foes you're fighting blam, dead Halfling.

Oh, and don't forget, you the human are now spouting memeshit as well. You stop shooting and pull out your phone in order to tweet "Team mates spouting old 2016 memes, So Sad!" which takes 4~6 full actions because you have no resistance to Memes.

So now you're dead, and the Elf probably buggered off at this point to join Wil Wheaton's entourage of FUCKING NERDS, leaving the Dwarf to die a sad, drunken death.

And THAT Ladies and Gents, is why Modern Fantasy will never, ever work.

>>51051992
Maybe mages can use some form of the last airbender style combat?

>>51052045
what kind of baiting shitpost is this?
(you)

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>>51052016
I would think magic would be something like a background field of mana that exists throughout the universe
Magic Users Mages and Warriors are like Marvel Mutants mixed with traditional Wizards as such they are born able to channel magic for anything more than lighting a candle but have to train to utilize it effectively and increase the amount they can channel

>>51052045
Have you tried not playing DnD?

>>51051992
>>51052004
How about something like this >>51034290

For now, I'm mostly concerned with a bird's eye view of what magic, in the hands of mortals, is capable of. And for that, we need a clear picture of what is difficult, unfeasible and simply impossible.

>>51052036
Maybe people have to apply for teleportation permits with pre-declared locations like your house and your place of business or study or whatever. And maybe it could enhance trade instead, with the mass teleportation service being what is taxed instead of a route. Unauthorized teleportation will be registered via a spell on your permit and it will cast a pre-prepared tracking spell on you so that the wizard cops will know where to find you.

Possible, but costly.

>>51052042
The implications computers would have on geometric magic like hermeticism is frightening

>>51052075
Sounds good until we can hammer out the extreme limit of magic

>>51052069
I like this idea. Magic exists as a field much like the force that exists in everything and magic users (whether they be casters or martials or some hybrid of both) just utilize it. How powerful your magic is depends on your training and your skill as a mage.
>>51052075
As I have pointed out previously, anything that cannot occur naturally in real life (or as another anon pointed out, reverse natural disasters) I think would break the limit.
>>51052087
I like this. Basically teleportation magic is taxed and heavily regulated/monitored so that people can't abuse it. And if you do use it unregulated, the po po is on your ass. Having permits for teleportation (or maybe only having teleportation at certain areas since it uses up a lot of magic) is a good way to streamline it. The anti-magic police would be scary as fuck though.

>>51052147
>The anti-magic police
Would this be Anti-Magic or police trained to deal with magic because we might not want to touch on the former until we've nailed regular magic

>>51052169
I mean't more like police trained to deal with rouge mages. Maybe Anti-Mage police would be a better name.

>>51052069
I really dislike bloodline, inherited magic. I'm fine with it requiring talent, effort, years of study, etc. Unless it is truly random, such that a mage is as likely to father/mother a magical child as someone who's never had a mage in their line.

>>51052182
I envisioned it as mostly training but that training is predicated on having the inborn "spark", if you have the "spark" and don't train then you can't really do shit
I also thought it would be possible for non Magic Users to birth Magic Users and vice versa

>>51052212
I personally like the idea of magic users creating more powerful magic users bloodline style. Makes for an interesting poor vs rich dynamic.

>>51052075
I honestly think that it's not so much of a big deal. Regular people won't all be doing magic. Some of them just won't have the aptitude for it while others just won't bother. So the people with the capability to become proper mages aren't commonplace, and they're faced with a whole new obstacle after discovering their magic talent: finding a proper magical education. Not easy to come by. Maybe you could find a master to teach you, or maybe there's an expensive academy that you either have to pay for or let the government pay for in exchange for being a government mage after you graduate. So even before we get to the possibilities of magic itself, we have limitations to observe and prices to pay.

And I'm all for precautions against magic. Try to smite the president with a lightning bolt? Congratulations, you wasted a ton of energy and time for nothing, because he has top tier magic wards and his secret service wizards are tracing the spell back to you as we speak.

In my own setting I have it to were is an energy from another plane that is channeled by the caster and used to create an effect. Only a select number have the compasity to channel this energy properly.

What about chi/ki/mana/prana/vital force?

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>>51052181
>AMTU
>Anti-Mage Task Unit
Armed with spell deflecting riot shields and enchanted taser shotguns.

>>51052259
I think an important distinction is to be made between mana/magical power and chi. Chi quite possibly might just be mana used for martial combat or to augment fighting ability while "real" mana is for traditional spell casting.
>>51052233
>tfw i am casting your fireball spell as we speak, your done kiddo
kek. I do like the idea of most magical educations/institutions being government owned/run though.

>>51052233
We need natural and effective ways to counter magic that isn't just another mage casting a spell or you might as well have all the mages in power and be done with it. Doesn't matter what it is, it just matters that it exists and those in power are aware of it and make use of it.

>>51052259
That's probably something to tackle as the inherently spritiual nature of Asian magic is something agilely different from European conceptions of magic.

>>51052311
Maybe magic only works in certain places (lay lines anyone) or is only strong in some place. I can also imagine certain metals or inscriptions acting as magic repellent or granting resistance to magic (not immunity though)

>>51052300
Chi kind of is kind of like the force in that it exists everywhere and certain people can harness it to pull off superhuman shit like setting their hands on fire.

>>51052346
I think that's what >>51052069 was saying. Magic exists everywhere and only mages can use it. How they use it depends on how the mage was trained and where their talents lie (some are better at traditional "i cast fireball" magic, others in more obscure styles)

>>51052259
It should be more of an out-of-universe concept. For the people in-setting, it should just be a fact of life. It's simply known that if you practice long and hard at such-and-such sword school, that you can learn to do awesome/cool things with both your body and a sword.

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>>51052227
If that is the case then I think it'd be more like a Fate style of "bloodlines" in which certain families keep their own magic research to themselves and only train mages from their own families with such knowledge.
So you can still have a rich vs poor dynamic without the inherit problem of just having a family in which everyone is born with some extraordinary magic ability.

>>51052233
>secret service version of a wizard
that sounds badass

>>51052075
We can always use beings of a cosmic style/guardians from a higher plane of existence type of thing that maintain the order of things. So when a wizard goes a little too far into violating the natural order of things fucking with the laws of nature it puts a stop to things.
It'd definitely help in building some kind of lore. Creates an idea of a what and why in terms of limits that also add to the lore of the setting.

>>51052311
Well, taking inspiration from real life here. Ever heard of the Evil Eye charm? It supposedly negates hostile powers acting on you.

Hermes told Odysseus to use moly to protect himself from Circe's powers.

African tribes were so paranoid about magic they traded protective fetishes like baseball cards.

>>51052368
I think that a major requirement of many magic "schools" would be that a person have the aptitude for magic though. Your average Joe can't just join the Flying Dragon Blade school of swordsmanship.

>>51052371
>If that is the case then I think it'd be more like a Fate style of "bloodlines"
That's exactly what I was thinking of when I said that, yeah.

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>>51052320
European magic is spiritual.

It's rooted in the religions of Hermeticism, Neo-Platonism, and Gnosticism. The average European wizard achieved power through spiritual development and commanding spirits in the name of God.

>>51052311
Maybe have a special, separate organization that polices all supernaturals, not just mages. Like modern Knights Templar. They have secret methods and techniques to counter offensive magic and ferret out mages that have rooted themselves in the government with mind magic. Zero tolerance policy. If they're coming for you, they're coming to kill you. Mages can police their own for minor offensives.

>>51052371
>when a wizard goes a little too far into violating the natural order of things fucking with the laws of nature it puts a stop to things.
Or invites him to join them?

>>51052385
I'm fine with that. Not so much if it's just cause he didn't win the genetic lottery and none of his family ever will. You can join just fine, if you pass whatever entry requirement exists, but he doesn't mean you have any talent or aptitude for the art.

>>51052410
I think there are governmental anti-mage groups (as well as companies that specialize in that kinda protection/PMC work) as well as psudo-religious groups as well. A combination of militant cults and professionally trained operators

>>51052403
Really the only difference is that the Europeans refer to the shit that lets you do magic and superhuman feats God and the Asians called it Chi

>>51052403
Given the fact that Asia's stuff around magic tends to involve more ghost and demons I'm inclined to disagree there.

>>51052421
I mean I guess naturally-born mages have an innate aptitude and "feel" for magic than normal people. Just like how some people are just better at sports or math than others, some people are just better at magic. Sure, if you physically train yourself you might be able to beat a natural mage, but you will eventually get outclassed. If that was what you were getting at

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>>51052413
That doesn't sound like a bad idea.
A council of protectors, you might say? Elevated beyond the mortal plane to keep watch over the balance of nature.

>>51052439
Actually pretty accurate, one thing I loved about about Indian religion is the fact that Demons, Gods, and men pretty much get their power from the same source.

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>>51052453
>A council of protectors
That could work too I guess

>>51052452
It's sort of sounds like a lanky dude getting into a power lifting competition with a pretty big guy.

>>51052452
I mean that some people are better at magic the same way some are better at sports or maths. Anyone from any walk of life can find they have an aptitude for it. Whether they want to, or are even able to pursue it is another matter.

>>51052478
for you
Except that lanky dude can punch like the /fit/ guy, or harder with the right training, given time and practice

>>51052453
Like the people that gods put in charge of watching over earth to make sure shit doesn't get blow up by the stupid mortals?

>>51052486
>>51052371
>>51052398
Well we have to figure out whether mages get their aptitude genetically or randomly then. If we want to mix the two it's quite possible that you can merely raise your chances by breeding with another mage but there are still freak cases where mages are produced in non-mage marriages.

>>51052486
To elaborate, you can teach anyone 2+2, while quantum physics is a little harder to impart unto others.

>>51052511
Magical bloodlines are kind of a standard trope in fantasy, hell Merlin was half-demon

>>51052490
But usually they won't bother (so much effort) and instead just spend that effort on getting a good job and buying a forklift to lift for him.

If we're voting, I vote "everyone can magic" setting. Just like (basically) any human can climb Everest, but who has time for all that training and shit?

Also I like the idea of 'magic' drawing from a general stamina pool. You can't cast spells till out of mana and then wade in with a sword- the act of casting absolutely exhausts you down to your bones.

That also means bookeeping fatigue is easier- everyone gains [X] per round of combat. No tracking spell slots, MP, etc.

>>51052476
It's somewhat reminiscent of the Council of Reeds.
Fuck that was such an awesome event.

>Attempt to obtain such powers
>Council intervenes
>Either attain the power and join them
>Attain the power and die
>Have memory forcibly erased, effectively starting over in terms of magic skill
>Abandon the pursuit of such powers

It would make for an interesting mechanic and for some people, a fantastic plot device.

>>51052493
Yes

>>51052511
We can have our cake and eat it too. I would either say allow for both or go purely random. It would help make for interesting stories and characters without forcing everybody who uses magic into a "mage family".

>>51052536
I mean while you are right that almost everyone can climb Everest, some are just born more physically adept and use that as a stepping stone to become better at climbing or whatever physical activity they choose to do. I'm personally a fan of the hybrid system where it just increases your odds of having a mage child if your partner is a mage.

>>51052553
Both is my vote as well. Allows for both types of characters as well as interesting situations.

>>51052536
I'm also for 'everyone can magic'. Not everyone does because it isn't and has never been easy. It also doesn't confer unto you godlike power, no matter what the peasants thought. Wizards of yore may have used this misunderstanding to worm their way into the halls of power or cower nations, but nowadays we know it's use in the hands of mortals to not be all-powerful.

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>>51052536
I wouldn't mind magic causing fatigue but we would need to establish how much magic you could cast before being too exhausted to fight
Personally I would have lower powered spells/moves like Magic Missile and Mage Armor cost nothing but things like Fireball and Cone of Cold would cause you to start to accrue fatigue
You could also have the level of spell you could freely cast go up at certain levels of experience but that might be too much

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>>51052603
Ya'll need to read some Desolation

>>51052536
I think mana should work like this: A mage can draw in mana from a place of power or it just flows back into him over time, but bigger spells take more mana, and the feeling of mana leaving your body imparts severe but brief exhaustion, so no chain casting thunderbolts. The mage also has a limit to how much mana he store, and if he expends it all too quickly, it hurts. A lot. He wouldn't be able to cast any spells until he recovered, even if he was able to restore his mana.

>>51052562
I'm for having who your mom/dad fucked be useful in determining what magic schools are open to you and have zero impact on whether you can or can't use magic at all.

>>51052618
Post a DL link and I will
My reasoning for allowing a free magic spell/a free buff move for warriors is that it is the basic moves they can perform and can always do
For example in the Dragon Age RPG and Fantasy Age RPG Mages get a free magical attack it only targets one person and does about as much damage as a weapon but they can always do it no spell points required

>>51052652
That's not really something that has to do with the principals of magic itself though. That's much more of a societal within the world itself.

We should hammer the setting a bit. Would the cities be all magical or closer to what we have in reality? Would it be DnD with modern technology or just the World of Darkness minus all the masquerade/paradox/disbelief crap?

>>51052681
Anyone and everyone is capable of magic, the same way they are capable of breathing, the same way everyone has a heartbeat, the same way everyone has a brain nestled in their skulls. The capacity and opportunity to make use of this is another matter entirely.

>>51052665
aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWdhLm56LyMhN2gxV2hSYUMha01iT0xPVnV4MmxaTWNQNUU5eWVwenhWdDNWS0N2Mmc1Xy1VQXd1aTRCQQ==

Use base64

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>>51052701
I would imagine the cities being much more magical than we would normally expect. Lots of floating objects, automated services (Think streetlights, plumbing, transportation).
It's kind of hard to imagine since the rest of the setting hasn't really been looked at in much detail. What kind of landscapes are we looking at? What races exist in these landscapes? Where do they live?

All that aside, this is a little bit of what I imagine.

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>>51052708
I see what you're getting at now. I'm not really sure how to go about determining aptitude towards magic to be completely honest.

>>51052757
More images

>>51052603
>>51052584

My custom magic 'systems' have always been pretty bizarre. You don't get "fireball", instead you can vomit stomach acid with enough force to splash 20 feet.

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>>51052701
>World of Darkness minus all the masquerade/paradox/disbelief crap
I would be fine with that when it came to the mechanics of magic but I detest WoD's style

A lot of people in the previous threads have brought up Final Fantasy as a big inspiration for the setting in addition to a D&D style world so I think trying to combine the two would be preferable
I would go with more of FF for the feel of the world with more of a D&D style race selection

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>>51052772

>>51052772
I like the idea of everyone being able to use magic with training, but it all depends on how available training is. Maybe both back alley/unsanctioned training as well as official educational systems are both valid. Don't know if one would have specific advantages over the other tho

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>>51052045
>Not just giving everyone +whatever Meme Resistance

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>>51052757
Floating shit and plentiful and ubiquitous magic
I would expect the architecture to be mildly impossible, like reinforced with magic to build bigger and crazier structures

>>51052802
Official education would be expensive and regulated. You would only learn what the government is okay with you learning, if you could even afford it without offering years of contracted employment to the government or a corporation. Advanced technique courses would be even more expensive and would have even more conditions.

You could find a master if you looked hard enough, but good luck convincing him to take you as an apprentice over all the other hopefuls. And if he does choose you, the training won't be fun or easy.

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>>51052837
Of course the world would be dotted with ancient ruins and structures filled with lost magic

>>51052802
I'm all for the knowledge being out there, whether in legitimate academies or the criminal underworld. The crazy stuff is gated behind expensive reagents, cooperation between mages, magically active sites owned and protected by governments and corporations, stellar alignments, etc.

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>>51052860
And magic/magitech would allow for cities built in fantastical locations

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>>51052777
checked
That seems to be the way to go as the basis to work on. Especially since Final Fantasy has always been fantastic when it comes to an awesome fantasy style.

>>51052802
Well, when the world is established I'm sure this is going to need to be discussed. Keep the ideas flowing anon. It'll be good to reference to when magic is finally set in stone.

>>51052837
Magic Architecture seems like a very inevitable field of study in a world like this. I don't mean for it to go crazy like >>51052786 but you get the point.

>>51052773
Fuck i hit post too early

Basically, I like the idea of most magic (or most 'spellcaster' magic) being high-impact. You don't throw a magic missile, you throw a nest of wasps through the ethereal plane into your enemy's body, where they proceed to chew their way out.

Magic that fucks up the user works as well. Think plasmids/vigours from Bioshock for the level of "skin burning off your hands, crystals growing through your skin, ligaments calcifying" levels of fucked up.

It also helps the setting stay somewhat grounded and familiar. If shooting fire from your hands requires actually setting your hands on fire, how many sensible people would try it?

Hell, mages could be seen much the same way as heroin addicts. "Look at that poor bastard, destroying their body for the temporary high of eye-lasers. Don't be like him, Tommy."

>>51052802
>>51052840
>>51052862

Look at Brent Weeks' Lightbringer series for a good example. Magic is taught to basically anyone talented, hooray!

Except that only seven colours are taught. Two have been used in-book that are 'officially' nonexistent. Orange magic is only useful for mind control and emotion control... or would be, but that's "heretical" and never taught.

If you're a Paryl mage, you're either killed for your heresy or never taught how to properly use your colour. If you're an orange mage, your job is to... lubricate stuff.

Unless you go to the 'heretical' teachers and get trained off-the-books. Which has its own dangers.

>>51052840
Basically, it sucks to be a mage but the payoff is huge.
>>51052862
I think the knowledge is there, it always has been. Governments now just control it thanks to an increase in national identity and centralization/sophisticated organizational systems.

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>>51052890
Interesting but I don't think it would work for this kind of setting
Magic effecting the user might be a cool idea to include like in Warhammer Fantasy

>>51052890
I like this better for less magically able people who turn to using the magical fauna and flora that surrounds them to wreak havoc on their enemies. Making use of alchemy/potions/monstrous parts/etc to give oneself abilities, temporary or otherwise.

Imagine someone letting a magic spider-thing burrow itself into his back and fixing itself near his spine for the benefit of being able to, let's say, turn into spider-man(toned down obviously). But now it's a delicate balance to try to keep both himself and the creature inside him alive and healthy. Not to mention expensive since now he needs certain concoctions lest the thing leaves(painfully) or makes its way up to his brain. But it's all worth it if he gets to keep up or even surpass those prancing fucks from the Flying Dragon Blade school of swordsmanship.

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Where would you classify a setting like Dofus/Wakfu in Modern Fantasy? Most of it is rural, but there's a good number of places where it obviously shows technological progress.

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So we've spent most of this thread discussing blasty Mage type magic but what about self bufffing Warrior type magic? The consensus seems to be a sort of wuxia or fighting game style warrior capable of using magic for superhuman feats

Personally I see Warriors as a combination of wuxia magic infused swordplay and Luther Strode style physical enhancement, which for those who don't know is the students of the Hercules Method coming to the profound realization that their minds can overcome their physical limitations allowing them bring all of their physiological processes under their control

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>>51053038
Absolutely no idea

>>51052948
That would definitely play into what was talked about last thread with various governments/guilds/trading companies controlling these types of goods.

>>51053109
Have it be that the upper limits of physical capacity simply become soft guidelines when you apply long, hard, grueling training/meditation/secret techniques/etc. This is known by everyone, but just like with magic, capacity and opportunity may or may not be present.

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>>51053172
Of course it would require a tremendous amount of training and meditation/study to achieve results like pic related
Really I just had the image of a fight between two Pure Warriors being a very bloody very brutal affair that could cause massive property damage

>>51053207
Sure, there are many paths leading towards martial/physical perfection, and all of them are arduous in the extreme. There should be techniques and training to achieve a fair number of cool/awesome stuff. Some should of course be secret, guarded, horded or even lost.

I also think that some feats should have magical significance. A sword that was used to kill a hundred enemies in a day by the same hand is magically meaningful. Shit like that should resonate and have tangible effects on the sword, it's owner and the battlefield.

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>>51053207
>matrials in 2017
I'm a big fan of the wuxia style of combat. With the use of magic it turns people into close quarters battle mages. People who can perform superhuman feats that is directly tied to their physical ability.

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>>51053329
Yeah there probably should be many styles of Martial Arts from the floaty Crouching Tiger to the Flash Stepping anime style to my preferred hyper direct brutal style

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>>51053359
I do think based on most of the discussion of the magic system that the option to use both Mage Style and Warrior Style magic is not only viable but in many cases preferable

And god only knows what kind of combat monsters we will envision once we get around to discussing weapons, but alas that is for another thread we still have magic to hammer out then probably races and monsters, then society and tech

>>51053414
So it seems that as the world has developed, magic is becoming more and more pervasive in many things and in our case, most forms of combat.
Or am I wrong to say that?

>>51053587
Minor, useful magic should be widespread when and where it makes life convenient. It becomes more of a hassle the more powerful it is though. People should view low-magic/magical devices the same way we view tech. And those who shun them are seen as Luddites the same as here.

>>51053642
Remember that this is their tech.

>>51053587
That seems to be the consensus so far yes
Once we finish with building the basics and limits of what magic is capable of we can figure out it's impact on technology and the world

On that note perhaps we should move away from combat and on the other applications of the mystic arts, we know that resurrection and time manipulation are legendary possibly non-existent magics but what sort of schools are there summoning, necromancy, what about healing or magical forms of communication?

We should figure out the what magic can do by itself so we can know how it can be supplemented with technology

>>51053587
Magic, even the minor stuff, should still be weird and the high-end stuff, pretty esoteric. It's just been long enough that people have a handle somewhat on the small useful stuff. It can still be dangerous at any level but almost no one is going to eschew it's use just because of that. That kinda shit's just backwards thinking!

So there are plenty ideas why monsters would be still around, but how would normal folk deal with them? And it's not about big well protected cities. What about some countryside and small villages?

>>51053692
This isn't a Shadowrun magic has just appeared/come back, this is a world that has always had magic and from what most of the thread seems to believe is a High Fantasy setting
I think minor magic items and magitech devices can and has been assumed to exist and are to be considered common place

>>51051613
World of Darkness Hunters

You are a human in a world of monsters where the majority of people don't know they exist.

Has things like:
You can buy a ability to upgrade your car and do things like mount a UV spot light or a big gun on it.

You can harvest monster parts and have a crazy scientist or someone sew them on to you so you get their powers.

Tattoos from angels that give you powers like the abilty to never run out of bullets.

You can be the offspring of a human and a demon and have demon powers.

If you get a side book that adds to the game called Witch hunter, you can use powerful magic. Healing is rare in game since you are expected to heal over time so the healing spells are very useful.

Or you can just be a preacher who hunts evil with holy powers. Bonus you can be any kind of holy man. Rastafarian, budhist, you name it.

>>51053702
Something pretty simple would be magical devices that discourage certain, maybe even chosen, non-sentient monsters. Think small radio dish or giant windmill. It's not always perfect and it does need maintenance and repairs from time to time, as well as updates on what it should repel based on what's out there, but it protects the towns well enough.

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>>51053702
I think the idea of walled fortress cities was brought up in the previous threads
Wilderness settlements are probably few and far between but the roads between cities should be maintained by the military. Adventurers would be those who travel out to protect settlements and plunder ruins
I can imagine that most major cities are built into locations that are easily defended or are designed to withstand an assault by monsters or other kingdoms
Humans would have walled castle cities
Dwarves would live in large cave systems like >>51052867
And Elves would be somewhere like >>51052777

>>51053724
That's what I said, or at last it's what I meant.

>>51053797
Many of those cities should also be built around natural magical phenomena that not only protect against monsters, but also have benefits for those that live there.

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>>51053797
It's hard to believe that every country would be rich enough to build some magitek wall around every single farm and to maintain all this big cities you need a lot of farms.
>>51053782
What is the plan B if the monsters get pass through devices?

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>>51053842
Yeah you could also imagine ancient sites of lost magic that would act as dungeons and BBEG lairs though I imagine most of the adventures start out in the Cities and are mostly contained there

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>>51053943
I would thing the cities are built in concentric rings with the outer being farm land and the transitioning to the urban districts towards the center at least in terms of the Major human cities the other possible races would probably have different design philosophies and aesthetics based on the race in question

In terms of wilderness settlements and small towns I would expect them to have to fend for themselves for the most part as monster attacks probably aren't that frequent and most of the monsters that do attack can probably be dealt with by a moderately armed militia

>>51053943
Rely on the town guard, paroling soldiers, traveling adventurers or hire hunters, mercenaries, exterminators, etc. Not going for a fail-proof system here, since that would make it boring. Just has to *feel* *safe enough* for the brave and very proud souls who'd wanna make a life outside the cities.

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>>51051613
can we have merfolk in this setting?
also, do we have a wiki somewhere to preserve all this info?

>>51053329
>post-apocalyptic fantasy world
>people are melting down parts of a nuclear missile silo that was successful in completely vaporizing a dwarven megacity, killing billions of dwarves
>turn it into armour and weapons that allow the user to challenge the heavens themselves

Now that is some sick fucking shit mate. Hell, could even be the plot of some long-arching adventure. Immortal BBEG instigates magic-WW3 so that he can use the steel used in the nuclear missile silos to build god-killing weapons.

So... Population density? How covered in civilization is the world? Is there room for adventuring or nah? And if there's not too much civilization in the way, why?

>>51054549
Yeah, just that people wouldn't be sure exactly what the effect of such magical investment would be. They'd be very aware, however, that awesome, amazing, epic actions have a tendency to produce awesome, amazing, epic, magical reactions.

>>51054731
>>51054549
Outside of normal things, immortality + radiation suit = bad eternity, you can have things like the Dwarves pulling a Dark Souls and constantly coming to reclaim their armor. Yes, it killed them, but it belongs to them now.

>>51054629
Walled city-states in loose alliances surrounded by wilderness and monsters seems to be the main idea.

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>>51054122
Chances are, no. The races inhabiting said land are coming from standard high fantasy (D&D). Probably just the big 4 at the moment.

A wiki seems a bit too soon, but maybe a good idea if this thread really starts getting somewhere.

>>51054549
>post-apocalyptic fantasy world
Not the right thread for it, but it's definitely a great idea for someone to run the party through a scenario or two in (or a whole campaign because that shit's awesome). But it does raise some interesting questions about whether or not races built new cities using the newfound magitec, or integrated it into the already existing lands.

>>51054812
Not exactly. There is a lot more talk of how industry has changed trade and with that, transportation. This means that cities can be farther apart which also means more space for the bad guys, whatever they might be. Cities probably won't be walled as much as they were before but rely more heavily on automated magic defenses to keep out the monsters and creeps.

What does this land look like? Where would people tend to live? What races are where?

None of these questions need to be answered, just looking to get ideas moving around.

>>51053692
So society has moved to magictek (Albiet low level magictek) but technology all the same?
It's how they water their plants, heat their homes, light their streets?

>>51055746
That's my idea of it anyways. Embrace the magic of modern fantasy, instead of trying to hide it away or segregate it from large portions of the population.

Have it that magitech can't be made in bulk from assembly lines and needs an artificer for maintenance, repairs and such. That way at least, you keep it all a little bit more magical but still widespread enough.

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I think superheroes would make for a nice influence. Like it or not they're almost a "modern" mythology of their own.

And I'm loving these very Frazerian ideas like magical sympathy through knowledge, association, names, etc. It feels logical in a paranormal way.

>Genius kid bitten by a fantastic spider
>Develops spider powers and comes to understand them

Or like how in LOTR when a noble king like Theoden fell in battle, a bed of flowers grew up where he died. Meanwhile the patch of earth where the Witch-King was vanquished became permanently barren.

Or how among Bantu tribes a monster needs to be killed and burned UTTERLY or else it may be resurrected as a new (usually plant) monster from it's parts.

The symbolic connection between crosses and Jesus to protect yourself from demons goes without saying.

Stuff like ley lines are another modern example. Like in American Gods some places are just inherently magical, that's why important churches/temples/mosques are built and rebuilt at the same sites. They sit on something amazing. During WWII the Japanese tried to find and kill the soul of China by bombing it's "Dragon Lines".

>>51055153
I'm highly autistic so I'd personally want

>start from scratch with a blank map >laying down tectonic plates
>slapping on land masses
>letting the geographic features naturally appear from there
>determining climate and flora/fauna based on latitude
>plopping humans/other races onto a tropical savanna and logically figure out where they would initially colonize and expand to
>determine what regions would be good for agriculture and grow civilizations
>fluff them out and let history do history
>get to the modern age with a coherent background

But that's probably too autistic for most people on this board. We had fun with it on the alternate history board.

>>51055903

In this way, more "institutionalized" magic becomes mainstream but still leaves room for the more mystical and esoteric shit. Imagine you go out to bum-fuck town and they set upon you to use you as a sacrifice wicker man style because the local spirit is agitated and won't do anything without a sacrifice. Come to find out, it's angry because some asshole is doing illegal necromantic experiments that are really messing with this spirit so by dealing with that guy the local spirit goes back to normal and the people promptly apologize because it was either that or it materlizes and rampages through their town or goes all silent hill on them (which would be better I think)

Even still in the intitutionalized areas you have certain groups and societies within high levels of power that do name near cult like shit before you can get into some really fucked up magic research that governments are secretly funneling money into for some kind of pay-off or infiltrating with spies to see what the fuck they are doing and when they need to pull the trigger on them.

We have toyed around with the idea of mages working for governments (or even it being a mandatory part of being trained) but how big of a role do mages play in militaries? Are they like spec ops units or more just like specialists that have recieved special training?

>>51057052

A little bit of both. Maybe you have specialist units who deal with stuff like warding against malicious spirits or maintaining/operating magitek equipment and then you have the scary operator guys that use and learn magic that requires a government license to even know about let alone use.

>>51056842
If we could get a good mapmaker on that, that would fantastic.

>>51056842
>that's probably too autistic for most people on this board
2 problems here.
1) This is /tg/
2) This is a world buildling thread
What you're saying is exactly what this thread is for anon!

>>51057193
http://www.inkarnate.com/
Maps are a little small at the moment, but it's a good base to use to get a general idea of things.
Any and all are welcome to give it a shot!

>>51057052
...ever heard of the men who stare at goats?

>>51057052
If you go by Warhammer logic they are used to buff troops and fire artillary alongside cannons.

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>>51057052
>>51057104
Wizard should be a scientific title. Every nation should have one magic univeristy and one main base of operations. They will get some license and will work for their goverment. Many differents degrees and specialists like expert of planar binding(summoner), magical engineering(artifacer) and so on.

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>>51057104
>>51057052
Relevant.

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>>51057649
Verily

Historically the word "Wizard" translates as "wise one", "holder of knowledge", or "one who sees beyond". Many Taoist sects called themselves the school of X science. A proper magician functioned as a doctor, seer, and more.

Science as we know it was born from magic. Alchemy grew into chemistry, Astrology grew into Astronomy, Herbology grew into Botany, etc. Wizards like Issac Newton and father of Toxicology Paracelsus saw themselves as cutting edge scientists. A magus was all these things.

>>51057649
>>51057798
Speaking of Magical science. What would the names of magical fields be called in academia? Stuff like Conjuration sounds a bit archaic for a modern setting.

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>>51054885
>standard fantasy races only
well thats boring as fucking hell. part of the fun of settings is inventing new races and seeing how they would develop.
>lets make a modern fantasy setting with short people and thin people in it.
nah, im out

>>51057964
The problem is that we don't even how the pointy eared dendrophiles would evolve into a modern setting let along all the stupid playable races present in Volo's Guide to Monsters or Pathfinder.

>>51057865
Academia would have pompous names for everything, obviously. Names like Conjuration would be for the layman. A dog is called a dog by everyone after all and only a stuck-up windbag would insist on canis lupus familiaris.

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>>51058085
>>51058085
so?
if someone decides to make a race and fluff it out. that in no way prevents someone from fluffing out dwarfs

>>51058137
You realize the reverse of that statement is also true right?

>>51058168
what?
have you been following the rely chain at all here?

>>51058236
Nigga you seriously think that developing a setting around standard fantasy races somehow prevents you from making your own setting with your stupid cat people? I don't even know why people here are developing this as if we're making a singular world here. It's not like we're planing on publishing anything.

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>>51058089
Speaking of which would educational facilities only be located inside walled cities? Considering a herd of Bullete could just randomly stroll through a village and demolish the countryside high school.

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>>51057964
So much this

What is so great about Norse mythical creatures that they must be forced into everything?

>>51058546
I would imagine the Ivy League-tier shit and military academies would be in the walled or protected cities. If you want to get educated as a mage you could either learn from your local mage-teacher (if there was one in your town) or go the big city.

>>51058573
Not just magical education I mean like regular education, stuff like high schools and whatnot.

>>51058546
Either there or in very defensible and very naturally magical locations, the whereabouts of which may or may not be known. The locations of certain ones may very well be state secrets and their very existence denied outright.

>>51058618
I mean small villages have their own police forces as well, no? I think that would be one of their duties, basically combining them with the city guard.

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>>51058451
Valid point

There should be mysteries

>>51058573
I like the ideas of magical classes in high schools and colleges

It fits the "modern" age

Historically people were educated by becoming apprentices

>>51058618
I think the ones worth mentioning would be found inside cities or heavily protected areas. I could see many martial schools and orders finding dangerous locations more a feature though.

>>51058696
Maybe they take a special exam to see whether the have the right stuff to learn magic and if they qualify the get shipped off to a special school in a city somewhere.

>>51058808
Have it depend on the nation. Different school systems for different societies.

>>51058844
Speaking of, we haven't even decided on what nations/how many there are.

>>51058860
My vote is for loosely allied city-states.

>>51058860
Whatever we end up picking I want one of them to be called "The Kingdom of Tillay"

>>51058844
Considering that there's some partial inspiration from FMA a non-maniacal fascist state sounds like a pretty good idea.

>>51058913
As a setting is modernized you'd probably find a lot of the various types of governments you'd see in a traditional fantasy AND in the modern world.
A combination of many allied city-states, lands controlled by large trading companies/guilds, republics, monarchies, various forms of dictatorships, etc.

>>51059048
Plus the advent of tele-communications would allow for larger governments to function just as well.

>>51058860
I'm using a nation of Nazi-esque Elves for my modern fantasy campaign. Elves in those snazzy outfits and coming in on massive Hindenburg airships to take what they want just feels too cool.

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How do people feel about the idea of vehicles being powered by magical batteries of some sort, kind of like materia? Actually if such a technology existed would people even really need to use items such as gasoline to power cars?

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>>51059122
Well at least you won't have too look too hard for art.

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>>51058860
The modern age is defined by Constitutional Monarchies, Dictatorships, and Republics

>>51059143
It's what I'm using. I'm figuring, in D&D anyway, about 100 miles to the spell level channeled into the battery.

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Welp, guess I better get my design doc ready.

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I love the modern trope of trains being psychopomps

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>>51059516

Requesting any worldbuilding books related to modern fantasy pls. Pls!

>>51059516
Don't forget conspiracy theories like Men in Black

Okay here's what I have so far.

> Magic has always existed. Technological and magical advances are basically considered the same thing, in universe.

>Walled cities. The world is a hostile place.

>Magic is controlled by government bodies in at least a few of the nations.

>>51059841
>Walled cities
racist

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>>51058860
Since it is a worldbuilding thread I suggest that we just post our ideas if other anons will like them that they will be accepted/changed/expanded.

I personally would like some country similar to texas. You know with stuff like bounty hunters, griffin ranchos, motorbike gangs, not-mexican drug cartels and so on. It would be pretty interesting to run something like that.

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>>51059841
Pretty much the gist of what we've got yeah
Though cities and the regulation of magic therein might warrant more discussion

Just a list of some country ideas/names based on what some anons have said thus far
>Some sort of city-state alliance/confederation
>Kingsom of Tillay
>Fascist elvish nation with a nazi aesthetic
>Texas nation
>A non-manical fascist state
>numerous other republics, dictatorships, and constitutional monarchies

Let's get some fluff writefagging in here to develop some more of these.

>>51059934
I imagine as governmental systems become more and morw sophisticated government regulation of mages becomes more strict though. Especially in dictatorships where military power would be achieved through use of mages.

>>51059934
You'd probably have several resistances within the nations that have magic under a iron fist and people objecting to public officials whose solution to public problems is to cast fireballs at citizens.

Convince me mages wouldn't run the world.

>>51060124
Anti-magic military forces and limits to magical ablity.

>>51060124
Because there's more people that can't use magic that can't use magic then people that can and I can plug you up with arrows then you could throw a fireball.

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>>51060056
Heavy regulations is possible but I imagine that there are cities/countries that are more permissive when it comes to magic
I would also like to think that the Adventurer class is sort of exempt from or at least have more leeway with a lot of the laws governing magic and weapons as they're the only ones willing and able to brave the wilderness to fight 10 story tall dragons

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>>51059841
>Walled cities
I wouldn't say that. With cities becoming more and more modern I think that the standard of defence for these cities relies more and more on magic and less on physical defenses.
That's not to say that walled cities don't and wouldn't exist.

>Magic is controlled by government bodies in at least a few of the nations
This. So much this. With industry comes trade, so large trading alliances will probably come to rise to the top of the magic economic food chain and will probably try to operate as their own separate and sovereign nation state so you already have another situation in which magic isn't controlled by a government entity.

>>51060023
Elves seem very fitting inside of a fascist setting. They're very nationalistic and we can draw a lot of parallels to Nazi germany. They'd probably still operate within the bounds of a "king" (May not call him/her that, but that's what their leader would be) while viewing other races as inferior to themselves.
There would definitely be varients as I can also see our more magic inclined evlish friends to also have some other type of nation that resembles a republic of sorts.

>>51060124
It's the same reason why monarchies lasted so long. Powerful leaders that garner allegiance from the people. Nobody ever said that a leader/government couldn't/wouldn't be made up of mostly mages but at the moment, we don't know how often magic affinity occurs within an individual.
I think what was decided on was that there would be both mage bloodlines (Mages can breed more mages) and that someone could just happen to be born with the affinity for magic.

>>51060145
Your post convinced me literacy is restricted to mages, as well.

>>51060173
Aren't adventurers basically just mercs though? And mercs could more or less just answer to the regulations of the PMC they work for, which in the end varies on how large your company is and where it is stationed (since they have to follow national law or something to that effect)

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>>51060145
This is Modern Fantasy replace arrows with bullets
Also the general rules of magic the thread has come up with means magic isn't the instant I win button it is in other settings

>>51060173
One thing I remember from Final Fantasy XV is the implementation of Hunters who operated as couriers, Monster extermination forces, and frontier lawmen when the nation was at war.

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>>51060124
I see mages as being starry eyed academics or nerds who lack the charisma and grace of leadership. The ones who would seek to dominate are fucking betas who couldn't manage it, and the ones who would be capable of dominating don't want to. Every so often there's probably some fag who's gonna come along and have both the means and the intent, but like in any dictatorship eventually that guy gets long dicked if he acts like too much of an asshole.

>>51060143
When the mage is the president, the anti-magic military is used to crush his rivals.

>>51060189
Maybe not exclusively elvish (with more of an emphasis on nationalism and national identity as members of a nation-state but definately looks down on other nationalities)

>>51060252
And then the anti-magic MPs start a coup and kill the president.

>>51060023
>Tiefheim

>Formerly the colonies of Neo Albion, situated in the northeast of the most recently civilized continent(like this setting's Americas).
>Two centuries ago, the people of this land were convinced by some mysterious stranger to dig deep into the land for precious metal.
>This digging unearthed essentially a gateway to the Abyss, spawning caps demons.
>The same mysterious stranger from before(Asmodeus) offers these people a deal to save them, and the world, from these demons: giving him their souls and the souls of the descendants.
>The land is scoured in Hellfire and the people and their bloodlines irrevocably tainted.
>This is the origin of the demon hating Tieflings and their home, the Ashen Lands, a smoldering hells cape of snowing embers with a large, solitary city in the center. Surrounded by roaming demonic entities, and cursed to pass on their condition to their offspring, able to breed with any race.

>>51060205
'Kay but seriously were would the precedent for a magical governed society be? In any given fantasy setting there aren't any magical rules, excluding the poorly written ones like Familiar of Zero. No one would follow those whom they considered wholly different from themselves. At the end of the day rulers are still people and people might not be inclined to follow the guy who just randomly summons demons.

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>>51060219
We haven't determined the role of adventurers yet
They could be mercenaries or they could be a sort of warrior/protector caste like Samurai
OR they could be a semi self governing body of super powered fighters like the Wulin or the Murim

Frankly the rules and regulations for the "adventurer" could merit a thread in and of itself considering how important it is for a fantasy setting

>>51060278
Why?

>>51060189
Maybe look at fascist Italy for reference as they had a still king(that approved of Mussolini unless I'm wrong)

>>51060306
Considering the setting being considered here has had magic & technology together the whole time, why do you think people would find a mage such an alien existence?

>>51060322
Because people desire power and an ambitious general can overthrow a leader. If the means and reason are present, why wouldn't someone do it?

>>51060349
So every military is constantly overthrowing everyone, all the time, because they can?
That doesn't make any sense at all.

>>51060322
Because the their respective military faction has decided that our "great leader" is inconvenient to their plans

>>51060322
Because someone needed an adventure hook

>>51060307
I think that adventurers (basically freelancers) occupy the same job market that mercs do though. Hired muscle that people enlist for jobs the normal military can't handle.

>>51060349
This is a 'modern' setting where only the strongest rule without being killed?

>>51060361
Coups only happen if the current leader doesn't meet the needs of the military leader or is not in his good graces. Can you not into dictatorships anon?

>>51060367
Why should that happen every time?
Why would that happen every time?
Or are you just shooting out a one-off example while people are trying to talk in general terms about a setting, for some reason?

>>51060426
Did you not follow the reply chain, or something?

>>51060346
One of things to keep in mind that ideas of Kingdoms is that they evolved from the ideas of chiefs, who where essentially community leaders whose decisions seemed expectable to everyone. And let me tell you the guys no one is going to follow is the guys who has a real nasty habit of summoning demons and setting the grainhouse on fire. In something like a republic with a temporary leader till another is selected that sounds fine to have a mage leader, but in something like a constitution monarchy no so much, speaking purely for actual monarchs in question.

>>51060426
>if the current leader doesn't meet the needs
>Because people desire power
Anon, what the fuck is going on

>>51060349
Because of national identity and stability.
I'm sure that some generals wouldn't mind the power but the issue is that the soldiers themselves in a modern setting have an allegiance to something and more often than not it is the nation itself and its leader.
Not to mention that the stability of such nations is of the upmost importance.
And plot armor. Lots of plot armor.
That's not so much of an issue in world building as that's something that people would do in a campaign. They create the characters, put events into motion and let the world change as they see fit, but when we set up the precedent for already existing military dictatorships in the world I think that a coup is the best (and most interesting) way to do it.

>>51060481
>real nasty habit of summoning demons and setting the grainhouse on fire
The thread went from no summoning, to now every mage is a pyro demon cultist.
This has gotten retarded.

>>51060438
Mostly just shooting the shit. I'd imagine that the images of wizards would be something like the conception of mad scientists.

>>51060481
>And let me tell you the guys no one is going to follow is the guys who has a real nasty habit of summoning demons and setting the grainhouse on fire.
So now the setting where magic is understood, and has been around forever, has every mage running around burning things down at random, with no idea what's going on?

>>51060513
>No summoning
Where? That's stupid.

>>51060498
I see what you mean. My original point (and what other anons have pointed out) is that mages don't rule the world due to the scarcity of mages as well as their own limitations.

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>>51060124
>Convince me mages wouldn't run the world.
Convince me why scientists aren't running our world. They were the ones who created the nukes and modern weapons. In the modern fantasy there is a lot of magical technology, magical weapons and stuff like that. You don't need to be a wizard to use them so you can use military to use the weapons wizards created aganist themselves.

>>51060529
>I'd imagine that the images of wizards would be something like the conception of mad scientists.
Why?

>>51059841
I always saw the modern age as a decreasingly hostile time. Yes evil exists but it's more about stamping out remnants of the old BBEG and factions who want to bring back the age of darkness and chaos.

>>51060559
We had already established that magic can't do shit that nature can't or shit that reverses major physical changes. Thus, no summoning.

>>51060566
Probably because scientists don't have charm spells or enchantments.
Or because nukes take a lot of resources and infrastructure outside of the scientist, where as the thread can't agree on how much mages can do.

>>51060535
In something like a dark ages society magicians wouldn't exactly have the best means of being educated on the ways of magic and such, and by the time such means would be established the ruling classes would already be well established.

>>51060559
Read the god damn thread.

>>51060592
>the thread can't agree on how much mages can do
But we already established this. Magic takes stamina and follows the laws of physics.

>>51060601
Considering that's not only the opposite of the thread's intention up to this point, and that another thousand years have gone by since then, full of progress and advancement, I'd ask you what in the world you're trying to say.

>>51060592
Because a lot of us have our own conceptions of magic and how it should work.

>>51060640
The laws of magic are simple:
>it can only be learned through intensive study
>it follows the laws of physics
>it requires energy

It's that fucking simple.

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>>51060513
It feels like there's a body of folk who want balls to the walls pulp madness and another who wants a more down to earth mood

>>51060640
Then start spelling it out.
A bunch of people in a circle screaming 'nuh uh' isn't getting anywhere.

>>51060637
Good fuck you are a dense motherfucker. Here's the long and the short of what I'm saying is that ideas of leadership and shit haven't changed in years, even in modern republics there are still pretty clear political dynasties.

>>51060680
This thread was going fine until you brought you stupid shit here.

>>51060721
>pretty clear political dynasties
Which somehow prevent a mage from ever being born into one, too!

>>51060751
And somehow that leads to a mage autocracy where the political class is defined by how powerful of a mage you are?

>>51060677
Yeah that sounds about right.

>>51060680
>>51060640
>>51060513
Read the first part of the thread
Magic in this setting cannot create physically impossible phenomena you could create elemental attacks, manipulate forces, and increase your own physical capabilities to super human levels but you can't teleport, resurrect, fuck with time or create natural disaster level effects

>>51060832
At least by yourself from what I remember. This sounds like a setting thats perfect for Desolation.

>>51060800
So there's only two settings.
Either no mage will ever lead any nation, ever, since that would instantly cause a giant, anti-magic coup
Or a single mage leading any country turns into a world-spanning conpsiracy, where every nation is ruled by one, either secretly or not

You guys need to turn it the hell down with the extremes, and stating possible cases as the only way everything would ever be.

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>>51060800
That could very well be one of the nations in existence.
It'd be nice to have a large variety because it makes the setting really flexible.

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>>51060862
>At least by yourself from what I remember
Correct from what the thread has determined to effect larger or permanent changes you either need more people working in concert or a magical array designed to channel mana

>>51060800
>where the political class is defined by how powerful of a mage you are?
that escalated quickly

>>51060877
Gotta nip that "muh caster supremacy" in the bud.

This sounds like the least fun setting to play a game in. Like, why even bother with the fantasy part of it if you're going to just cut everything fantastical off at the knees? Just play any modern post apocalyptic setting. That's about al you've described.

Army deployments resembling magic circles to give the army small buffs at the expense of not being as tactically sound.

>>51061135
Fuck off Desolationfag

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>>51061135
We aren't trying to cut fantasy off at the knees
This thread was originally discussing how magic was supposed to work in the setting
Once that was established more details of the setting would be fleshed out like what races, monsters and other magical phenomena exist
After that is done we can start to determine how nations and civilizations have adapted to the conditions of the world, what kind ot tech and magitech exist what sort of weapons are commonly used and what sort of adventures would be viable in the setting

We can't start building Fantasy New York without first fleshing out the world that city exists in

>>51061235

In FF12 you have the combat in Nabudis where the Mages are basically standing around enchanting a tower that casts a super wide defensive shield. So depending on the state of warfare you might have stuff like that that also becomes a mission objective to take out such buildings.

>>51061308
Actually I am the Desolation fag. The reason I keep recommending the system is because of it's free from magic and it's pulp action mechanics

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>>51060990
I like this. It justifies assemblies of sorcerers working together.

>>51061135
>hurr why can't I chop planets in half?

Cry moar

>>51060990
>>51061493
You could also have an adventure where the Nazis discover a meteor spell and you have to stop them before they destroy the capital.

>>51061393
I don't think Desolation is a bad system to use when the limits of the world are applied.
Maybe when the world is established we can come up with a list of systems that would people may be interested in using?

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>>51061493
Also note that some of those arrays are three dimensional that's where the magitech comes in
A big enough and complex enough array could theoretically float a city

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Something I think we might be neglecting is the role of priests and godly magic in this setting.

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>>51061316
Very much this.
Considering where this thread was yesterday this is much more fantasy than it was looking like with the whole M16 > Swords thing.

>>51061743
Shit like that is so cool and it's why I think that the vision I have in my head of modern fantasy is just so much fun.

>>51061813
There is definitely that priestly type of magic in the setting, but it's the whole god thing that has been left mostly unexplored (With the exception of the Watchers/Guardian beings from earlier in the thread).

>>51059651
vump

>>51061937
I think we might be the first padre, or the first to really try to codify this shit.

>>51061981
The first to what? You're certainly not the first to put together a modern fantasy setting.
And what's a "world building book" anyway?

>>51061743
Reminds me of the march of technology

Before the 20th century one genius could accomplish revolutionary discoveries alone

Now we need teams of geniuses collaborating

>>51061813
Very true

>>51061878
Yeah. I hate the meme that gritty = modern.

>>51061813
I would like to say that Divine Magic should be rare
Arcane magic and Fightan Magic seems to be everywhere with everyone capable of training to use it if it was up to me Divine would be exceptionally rare and usable only by those chosen by the gods or by those who have made pacts with extraplanar forces Warlock style

Healing and the like could be accomplished by the other types of magic, Divine should let you break some of the rules for a hefty price since you're mainlining cosmic power

>>51062413
I think divine magic, while rare-ish, shouldn't be constrained to any specific people or groups. The gods can choose to allow their power to be channeled by literally anyone. Maybe there wouldn't be any dedicated divine casters, as miracles could, in theory, happen for anyone.

>>51062521
That was sort of what I was trying to say here>>51062413
Divine Magic should be a rare special ability and not a dedicated class/career path

>>51062413
>>51062521
I think divine magic should be more random than arcane and is restricted to those higher up on the ladder in churches and such. Some gods might just choose whoever strikes their fancy to have divine magic. It definitely would require more from the user than arcane since it would be able to bend the laws of physics and preform miracles.

>>51062588
I don't even think ot should really be an ability. Just sometimes the gods see fit to do something on the mortal realm and have to do so through whichever mortal vessel is close by to where they want to do it.

>>51062665
I like this. Divine isn't something you can't just do. Gods just act through the nearest vessel to enact their miracles on the world. So in the end the user has no control over the magic.

>>51062413
>>51062521
>>51062588
>>51062638
>>51062665
Let's all remember that divine magic/white magic doesn't have to mean that it's "healing/regenerative" magic. With the direction your it can definitely stay divine but maybe we should define that really means and what it entails. I'm not trying to say that this type of magic cannot be healing but just that healing magic shouldn't be exclusive to divine/white magic.

Imagine what a hospital could be like with magic tools and healing magic!

>>51062721
And in game mechanics can basically be that player parties can earn a fate point type thing to allow the use of a Deus Ex Machina. Or maybe they just have one for the entirety of the game. Like a big ol' one-off.

>>51062738
I think we already outlined that arcane can heal, just not bring back the dead. I think generally divine magic can break the rules arcane has to adheer to, but divine magic users are even rarer and are at the whims of their god. Maybe the effect of the magic would change depending on the god.

>>51062665
I envision it as something similar to Dragon Marks in Eberron or being the Chosen of a God in FR a special ability or boon that can be taken at character creation or gained later in play
The power itself is still up in the air since we don't really have a handle on the gods of the setting yet but it should have a larger price than just Experience or character points and should probably be limited to that gods domain

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>>51062413
I prefer the "Powers that be" more than classical deities

It's fitting considering modern cultures are more "spiritual" than religious

Miracles are truly miraculous because they defy even magic's "rules"

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>>51062828
Ah I only scanned the last few posts since I had gotten back so I must've missed that part.

>>51062926
This is possible. It also allows for a plot device that can be used to establish a mythos. Heroes, legends, etc. while letting DMs have a sort of deus ex machina. It doesn't just say "this person can now break all rules of magic all the and is ultra powerful".
So the rules can be "bent" by the DM.
Plus is gives another layer to the whole guardian thing >>51052371.

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>>51051613
I like the setting in Irregular at magic high school

for any anons who aren't familiar, it's weebshit that considers the modern fantasy setting **pretty much only magic but whatever** magic there was rationalized as technology

with the use of CAD's which are computers that take huge chunk of the processing power out of the persons mind. to perform magic you input coordinates and values of what exactly you want to do.

in essense you program the world, want to move an egg from the table to the floor, first you need to tell the egg to levitate, then you need to tell it to move, then to decelerate, then to stop, then to land.

it also goes into military aspects as well, magicians are classified into "individual, tactical, and strategic class" individuals are about as useful as a team of operators, with excellent anti personnel magic but is limited in use. tactical mages are about as effective as an armoured company able influence entire battles, and strategic class mages of which there are few, are able to have the same destructive force of a strategic weapon.

any anon's who are interested read the LN much better than the anime IMO

In my own setting I have it to where Gods select their own head preists and their disciples enact their will on earth by scyphoning off divine energy from the head priest.

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For whoever is making the next OP.
Not sure what the prompt is.
Maybe we should discuss mythos? Or maybe the landscape of the land? What kind of map are we looking at?

>>51063448
Probably how technology works?

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>>51063448
I think we have combat magic down so maybe we should move on to Races or Geography

>>51063497
We've discussed combat magic to some degree so I think that is probably the best course going forward. Since we have seemed to come up with a magic system and basic rules.
Magic -> Race -> Geography

>>51063448
We have figured out the basics of how magic works (both divine and arcane) so I think we should move onto something more material. We don't have to talk about mythos/religion just now. I think talking about races and geography would be something to address. Maybe talk about some nations after that.

Some suggestions and questions:

I suppose that women are emancipated lmost everywhere if magic is widespread.

How does magic affect livestock and agriculture?

Do magical wild animals spawn of nothing? Can you tame them?

What kind of communication does these setting uses: magic crystals, Internet, telephone, etc?

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>>51063497
>>51063532
I find it better to start with a map and make the actors fit than vice versa

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>>51063650
I don't have much in terms of existing maps if I'm going to be fully honest.
But http://www.inkarnate.com/ is a really useful tool for this! We could put it in the OP and let everyone give it a go see what we get and form an idea of what the landscape should look like.

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Someone should probably save the stuff we've worked on so far for posterity
As for the starting topic of the next thread I'll cast my vote for Races

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>>51063650
>>51063698
On second thought, it'll probably end up being a mix of both.
We could hash out some nations/kingdoms/trade alliances and begin to craft a map, adding to the nations and map as more ideas come to the table.

>>51063615
>>51063707
I don't know about internet, but I can imagine a type of information storage becoming very modern in the vein of Star Wars in that Solidified Mana crystals can hold large amounts of information like that of a holocron (With or without the holograms that come with it, depending on how anons want to deal with that). And then just find a way to communicate such information across distances (Ley lines? Maybe large centers throughout the lands of mana crystals relaying information to one another in a similar way that satellites do).

>>51063615
>I suppose that women are emancipated almost everywhere if magic is widespread.
Why would they be? I guess if this is modern era sure, but why does magic make women emancipated?
>How does magic affect livestock and agriculture?
Accelerated growth effects and animal taming becomes easier. Irrigation as well. I can see societies that have access to mages move past small agricultural towns very fast and industrialism comes on very fast.
>Do magical wild animals spawn of nothing? Can you tame them?
We haven't touched on fantasy animals but I imagine they exist just like any other animal in the world,
>What kind of communication does these setting uses: magic crystals, Internet, telephone, etc?
Since we are limited in our use of magic, I think stuff like the telephone would still exist. Depends how tech-y we want to go in respect to the internet, but I think it might turn out the same.

>>51063758
I like the idea of information being stored in crystals of mana for communication. Transmitting information wirelessly is something we can only accomplish via the internet, and not even instantaneously yet, so I think maybe early on the mana crystals acted as a form of letter system but were then created a hard drives/storage components for wireless communication. This would combine modern-day internet and telephone systems with magical information storage units.

>>51063830
That's a better take on what I was thinking of!

>>51063749
What would you like saved? Because I could write up a world doc. Or did you mean saving it on suptg?

>>51063758
I'm imagining human varieties which aren't around anymore

Neanderthals, those brown skinned blue eyed hunters, etc

>>51063868
The general information on magic and the tone of the setting we're going for things like magic combat, how Warriors and Mages work and the few mentions of cities that have come up, pretty much just a summary of what we've done in this thread
Having a World Doc for what we've built so far would help any newcomers to future threads get a feel for the type of setting we are aiming to create and prevent people proposing something dramatically different

>>51064017
Clever

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>>51064053
I thought so
Really it should be updated every thread with the information we have formed a consensus on in order for us to move forward without too many problems

>>51064017
I'm still for the tone of Pulp action.

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Just got back from work. Everyone having fun? What did i miss that we decided on?

On races, I advise no more than a few. as a said before;

Dnd and pathfinder try too much and end up gaudy and overdone. Scrambled eggs with the entire grocery store in it... disgusting. It should also blend well, nothing should feel out of place.

Also Kobolds as a race, I already have some good ideas, if anybody cares.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16pTg4vLuyP-nYHK8M7r0iUeJkgzsV9I9KTwAC8NChf4/edit?usp=sharing

Just put up this doc. Anyone is free to add suggestions on stuff that is in this thread. This is very much a WIP so help me if I missed something. I am still writing this out so go ahead and give a suggestion.

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>>51064147
I good idea is give a few people a race and civilization to work on or team up on and other people give feedback. less of a mess.

when decided and agreed the we figure out how to have it all interact. Might need more temporary namefags and voting polls.

>>51064108
>>51064017
That would be useful.
The format of the OP post could be something like this

THREAD GOAL
Keep this very specific to what the thread "should" try and work on.

WHAT IS BEING WORKED ON
Geography, Race

RESOURCES
(Archives, pastebins, whatever)

THREAD PROMPT
Questions about the thread goal to get ideas going or build off of ideas from previous threads.

>>51064147
Someone mentioned Desolation because it uses free form magic and pulp fiction action.

>>51064147
Basic magic rules, some magic types, a few different ideas of how warriors/mages function.
Some ideas about societies/governments/cities being thrown around too.

>>51064168
I'll give it a read.

>>51064194
That's a good idea.

>>51064168
This is a good idea. If this thread will be a long series, this need to be in OP.

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>>51064168
Just remember to keep 2 versions.
You want an official finished version to use at the beginning of each thread, and then the live version that changes towards the end of the thread.
That way if the live version gets all kinds of fucked up you can always have the backup to copy from and edit again.

>>51064416
Remind me how to do this? I am new to Google Docs.

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>>51057798
>name-dropping the P man
Anata wa watashi no nigga.

>>51064423
File -> Make a copy?
Then just save that copy with some version # in the header. Maybe keep it the same at the thread #?

>>51064442
Oh, I see what you mean. Just had to re-read it. Sorry.

Remember to use
>>51064168
>>51064228
and >>51063448
for OP
We'll see how everyone likes the formatting.

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>>51064431
/tg/ is usually more versed in the paranormal and folklore than /X/ is

>>51064614
It's our business to know all thinks folklore and make them into things we can punch in the face.

Shits seeming way to MMORPG to me right now. May I offer some suggestions?

>Trainable power should have a limit. No superheros.

>Anything above that is Very, Very rare artifacts, Shit that is highly looked down on and/or Dangerous as fuck. Divine stuff. which will most likely leave you in a position you don't want to be. Nothing should be easy, or cost free.

> Not everyone can use magic, or it requires meditation/ a traumatic event to trigger the ability.

>Magic was once way more common. (Ruins)

I know people hate the inheritance cycle but i really, really think the magic system fits. It has very determinable limits and it does not generally break the logic and physics rule.

>>51064667
Say what you want about the Eragon books, but the magic system is really solid. Everything else is crap though.

>>51064667
Some of that is solved a la >>51052371.

>>51064667
It also solves the melee issue and does not really have limits to creativity and also uses stamina as a base. (How strong/healthy you are and what you can store.)

So I as a basic guy has a firearm and you want to kill me with a sword. You can stop the bullets in mid-air, witch will use up energy fast and kill you, or you can deflect which is better. How to you deflect? Opposing force? Making the air denser?

good stuff.

>>51064667
The physical enhancement brought up so far was designed with keeping up with Mages, Monsters and Firearms
There should be limits yes no one is saying a Warrior should be the Hulk, but we are trying to keep traditional fantasy melee viable and that means an enhanced warrior

>>51064689
we had some major discussion about whether or not a bloodline thing should be introduced for magic users, which went unanswered I believe? We need to figure out if everyone has the capability to learn magic, or if only those with both the "magic gene" AND an education can use magic.

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>>51064712
Perhaps this should be a topic for the next thread before Races are brought up
It seems we neglected Warrior magic in our thread about magic

>>51064688
I kinda like them...
I guess I have bad wrong taste.

Reading the first book a few years later, is did seem much more juvenile though. Maybe its nostalgia.

We really need a Magic system like this, not too flash and anime., almost grounded in reality. Depends on skill as much as anything. i liked mistborn's magic system as well.