/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General

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EXPLAIN THIS

>>51010455

>>51010660
Can't fight the volkite

>>51010614
I don't like that SoS picture.

This being what I have, prior to my decision to hit the pauldrons with Warplock bronze and the Biel Tan Wash.

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>>51010772
Forgot the image.

>>51010614
Nth for just bought a Leviathan Dreadnought! I haven't been this excited for a model in a while!

What am I in for lads?

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>>51010614
Fourth thread is for the IVth legion :^)

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ignored in last thread ;_;

>>51010841
Them pretty wings...but surely you'll paint the blade and pistol some other color?

>>51010841
As a Burgeoning BA Brethren, I enjoy this greatly. Where did you get those wings?

>>51010841
That's a nice gundam

>>51010872
puppetswar who are based in Poland I believe. They take a while to process orders tho

>>51010865
standard black and silver for bolter, I was thinking maybe blue for the blade?

>>51010660
Is that with the IF bolter bonus?

>>51010792
It's me, Word Bearer anon.

>>51010792
Is that IW or IH? I'm really sorry, but without the unique pauldrons I genuinely can't tell. The IH have the blue eyes, though, right?

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>>51010819
Aw, I was going to post it.

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>>51010819
SO I'm considering running an ironfire allied detachment, with a primary detachment of ordo reductor, 12 medusas all up, how effective will this be?

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>>51011119
You seem scattered, anon. Come board my Tormentor :^)

>>51011138
On the cheese/WAAC side of effective.

>>51011118
Neither, I want to create a scheme using elements from both.

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>>51011138
The Ironfire's (and any RoW really) benefits remain caged (;^)) in their own detachment. As such the only Medusae that would gain extra accuracy would be the IW's, not to mention you wouldn't have many IWs to make use of Fearless.
And I'm not mention it because nobody seems to use Fearless.

Hey, if you used Hammer of Olympia, would you get access to two Deredeos as allies? Because two Lascannon Deredeos as Interceptor and anti-air support would fix the ONE weakness of Reductor :^)

>>51010841
>mixing armour marks
>halberd still has sprue on it
>teeny tiny jump pack
>worst legion
git gud, then try again later

>>51011258
Why won't iron fire effect mechanicum?
it just says Barrage weapons targeted within 12" of friendly iron warriors units

Daily Reminder that Inferno will be delayed.

>>51011295
And they are indeed Sworn Brothers...
Oh, I'm not sure anymore, anon.
>>51011336
You have been saying that all year long!

>>51011078
I don't think it is, only a BS of 4.

Any body have the mega to the advent stories?

I keep hearing people talking a bout Assault Marines being good.

Why is this Anon?

Why did Robert Gullible copy the Tyrant Siege Terminators?

>>51011554
Got cheaper.

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>>51011562
because hes an unorignal lazy fuck

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>>51011562
Because, at the end of the day, he saw it was a formation with lots of potential that worked.
So he copied and improved upon it the same way he did with the RG's Ashen Blind, "PROVING HIMSELF ONCE AGAIN THE MASTER OF ALL OF THE MYRIAD DISCIPLINES OF WAR

>>51011579

Pert's face when some of the more technologically adept Tyrants replace the cyclone missile launchers on their cataphractii-pattern armor with volkite culverins.

>>51011554

Cheaper fast scoring unit that can still be 10-20 man strong and have characters attached with no penalties

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>>51011638
You mean this?

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>>51011658

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Should I cosplay Corvus?

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>>51011687
I named that pic "Anon Pulls a Paramar".
>>51011692
Do as you want. None of the Daughters look like their Primarch dads at all.

>>51011717
Not Cora. Corvus.

Cora a qt tho

>>51011562
If he sees a something good he's not too proud to copy it unlike most of the other autists.

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You cannot win Dornahld.
My legion of siege breakers will tear down your pitiful walls and take the accolades.
Accolades rightfully deserving to me. Not you, Dornahld.
Man your walls Dornahld.
Man your walls.

>>51005476
>>Can you stop a Spartan before it unloads its cargo? Alternatively can you slow down the Spartan or tarpit its cargo?
Yes and yes. Grav Rapiers will reliably do 3 HP a turn, Lightnings can Turb-Kraken them, etc. Deathstars are hard to do well with if your opponent is prepared(IE ready to pop a spartan by turn two). It's Assault Rams you have to watch out for.

Deathstars are usually slow, save Corax, Curze, and at times, Mortarion. So if you pop their transport in the middle of no where and play the mission you'll win.

>>Can you deal with multiple AV14 + AV13 vehicles?
Yes. Lightnings, Sicaran Venators, Grav weapons, quad mortars with shatter shells, etc. There is kit to take down anything. The trick is which fits into your army the best.

>>Can you deal with moderate to plentiful AP2/3 blasts, such as Quad Mortars, Medusas and Scorpius?
This is the current bane of of the meta. Ironfire and Ordo Reductor are the worst offenders. There is a point, looking at you Reductor with 6 medusas and 6 krios venators, where you just can't. But that level WAACing will not earn you friends.

>So what are other common problems that are typically encountered?
Rock, paper, scissors. There are a lot of Rites of Wars, armies, wargear, and units and it can easy to win hard or lose hard if you're not aware of it all. Build your army slowly, unless you just love certain models and can't live without them(thats destroyers for me) and read up on the net to see what some look like so you don't accidentally build a rock list that falls to a popular paper one.

>>51011965
Destroying Spartans is also one area where the Falchion gets to do something, seeing that Flare Shield has no effect on str. D.

>>51011965
You could say Destroyers are your poison?

>>51011958

I would probably be sanctioned for tech heresy if I were fighting during the Siege of Incaladion as one of the IVth. Cyclone missile launchers firing micromissiles with compact vortex warheads. Twin-linked carapace darkfire cannon. Combilas-volkite bolter. Self-repairing cataphractii-pattern with fast recharging compact field generators...

>>51012134
See, you say that, but an average of 2HPs is not great. It only does one actual pen at AP2 so you need at least a 5 to immobilize it. D got nerf'd haaaaaaaaaaard.

Falchions are only good at fighting other super heavies to stun them. Then its sits at 560 points. Thats pretty expensive. Would be hilarious against titans though if only they didnt have those pesky void shields.

Bottom line is that the Flachion is terrible and other things can do it's job better and/or cheaper. But it is the prettiest.

>>51012155
kek

>>51012310
Scoring a penetrating hit that does D3 HP on a Flare Shielded Spartan on 2+ is better than most anti-tank weapons. Not only will it lose hull points, you get a chance to Immobilize it or even Explode it. And on a 6+ you destroy it completely from just the HP damage.

>>51012541
Yes but you need to stop thinking inside a vacuum. There is a point cost attached to that weapon, and suddenly the weapon is shit.

It can do damage, but it is not at all worth the sticker price of a Falchion.

>>51012568
And you need to learn to read, because I never, ever said the Falchion is the absolute bestest Spartan destroyer in the galaxy, I said that it's an area where it gets to do something. As in besides trolling super-heavies and sucking shit. As in if you have one and really like to field it, you can at least take comfort in the fact that you can shoot Spartans with it.

>>51012604
Your entire point was singing the praises of the Falchion's main gun, you did not post a single negative, you were responding to someone saying the gun was bad. But in your heart, you know you did not like it and everyone else should be able to feel that through your beautiful expressive text.

Keep fagging on

>>51012310
But the Spartan would be stunned (and immobile) on a 3+. That's a gud consolation price.
>>51012604
>The Falchion is the absolute bestest Spartan destroyer in the galaxy
-Anon, 2017
:^)

>>51012655
The fact that you got that out of "gets to do something" is amazing, but whatever floats your boat, man, I guess you know better than me what I said.

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>>51012655
>The Falchion gets to do something
>"Ode to the Falchion 017M3"
Not either of you anons, I simply find misunderstandings funnier than tv.

Things that also kill Spartans:
>Str10 Barrages
>Haywire guns
So, Ordo Reductor Medusae with Vultarax support, as long as they can afford it.

>>51012541
>is better than most anti-tank weapons

Grav rapiers do 3HP a turn. Across two turns the Spartan is dead. 225 points.

A lightning will do about 3HPs and 2 pens at AP1. 230.

Both the above can be taken in pairs at the cost of a single Falchion.

Two Sicaran Venators will flank it and do 2HP with a pen at AP1. 380.

3 Medusa. 2.5HP. AP1. 465.

Just to name a few. The Falchion is outclassed by some of the most common AT in the game. In cost and damage.

The one single thing the Falchion has going for it is Primary Weapon for two chances to fish for a 6 on the D chart. But that alone does not make it worth that price tag.

>>51012663
>But the Spartan would be stunned (and immobile) on a 3+. That's a gud consolation price.
More like a "You Tried" sticker.

>>51010614
Can seige breakers take bikes? Im at work trying to fill out a list and don't have my books on me.

>>51012775
If a transport isn't going anywhere, losing HPs and getting its accuracy turned to shit is an added prize.
>Grav rapiers do 3HP a turn
Last time I checked they lacked Relentless and Lascannons outranged them by 12". But I checked a long time ago and Grav Rapiers indeed can't be ignored.

Not really saying anything about the Falchion, but legions should be able to get Valdors. Don't they do something similar?

>>51012820
yes. They don't have wargear restrictions, although I don't know why you want that since he only confers art of destruction rule to infantry

>>51012849
While the grav rapiers are outranged, I would imagine that they are parked next to your front lines, where the spartan is presumably driving straight towards?

What are valdors?

>>51012775
Oh and you can get a Shadowsword for 470 with BS4.

>>51012849
>Last time I checked they lacked Relentless and Lascannons outranged them by 12"
And? The Spartan is coming to you and lascannons don't have haywire and are S8 against the Flare Shield.

>Valdors
Sicaran Venators

>>51012886
I was talking about the Spartan's lascannons outranging the Rapiers' grav cannons, but >>51012882's point makes more sense.

So how does one deal with Grav Rapiers parked in ruins? :^)

Are Tyrant Siege Termies worth taking anymore?

>>51012933
The Rapiers have 2 ablative wounds each, with proper stacking you would have to eat through 4 unsaved wounds to kill one. They should be parked in a 4+. Spartan should be moving 12" a turn to get in range so it's only firing one weapons using PotMS and that's one unsaved wound a turn. If it's only going 6" then your other AT should behaving a field day.

>>51012950
Why wouldn't they be?

>>51013016
Because they're Heavy Support now, and that slot is far too valuable to be wasted on a squad that likely won't make up their point cost. So some say.

>>51013016
That's assuming it's a straight Spartan vs. Rapiers fight and the enemy won't be using something else to fuck with the rapiers.

>>51012886
50pts. more and it can be BS5.

While it's almost 100pts. cheaper, you're also losing the Neutron generator, twin-linked and 4 TL lascannon shots.

Man, I just thought the Falchion looked cool... Should stop buying what I think is cool and just WAAC like everyone else.

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>>51013041
>and the enemy won't be using something else to fuck with the rapiers.
That's why I'm asking. I mean using a Spartan as a gunship to deal with Rapiers is wasteful indeed.
I was thinking Assault marines: can lock them in melee and/or sweep them.
>>51013034
I think FW confirmed to one anon that pic related is the correct designation: Elites.

>>51013041
And you'll also have more things to fuck with the spartan.

>>51013034
They also say their an Elite in the IW general rules. Wouldn't be the first time the messed up like this. Javelins have the Lord of War symbol on their sheet.

Tyrants will also never be bad in ZM.

>>51013086
>Man, I just thought the Falchion looked cool
Oh I'm getting one even though I know its crap. Getting a Glaive and Fellblade first though. I want it for my future 1ksons. Imagine it in gold and candy red? Delicious.

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>Prospero Burns was a rip off of The 13th Warrior
>Abnett is a hack

Am I correct in assuming that only the squad leader for NL vets can take a chain glaive? For some reason, I thought anyone with a PW could, but then I realized that was a special thing with Raptors.

I figured that the change to Heavy Support from Elites for Tyrant Siege Termies was to avoid PotL Tyrant Spam.

>>51013091
Nobody will ever let you do that without an official FAQ or something from FW. Don't get me wrong, i would kill for your interpretation to be correct, but FW emails dont mean anything anymore.

>>51013124
>And you'll also have more things to fuck with the spartan.

And more thinks to fuck with those things.

>>51013130
You're a hack

>>51010841
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I think those wings look like shit.
Which is a shame, because the rest of it looks fucking awesome. It's just those look like half shredded chicken wings or some shit.

>>51013124
Shame FW Fellblade turret is twin-barreled and they don't sell them individually. Would love an old school Fellblade with the Baneblade hull and domed turret.

Shame B&S didn't make their old school Falchion conversion a thing they sold on their store.

>>51013130
Did... did you JUST realize both those points anon?
It made me laugh that a little shit like him thought he could write on the level of Crichton though.
> silly boy, you write space fantasy to shill for a model company. Leave REAL SF to the pros.

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>>51013163
And round and round we go. Everything is terrible because there exists at least one scenario where it gets destroyed.

>>51013155
See attached from the current book. Technically you either can't take them in either slot or you can in both. I think RAW it's both actually. Here's my reasoning:

This game doesn't have core conflict clauses or override rules. Just case-by-case "Does it say explicitly say you can? And does it explicitly say you cannot?". It doesn't even have a can't>can rule like MtG.

It's the same issue with the Knight Atrapos and Pory. They have text saying who can use them, thus excluding who can't by omission. But you can still take it as a marine LoW because we have explicit permission to take any knight. Same with Coils of the Hydra, each legion has a list of specifics it uses thus excluding all other legions from using it, but Rewards for Treason let's you take them anyway.

So here we have explicit rules to take them as Elites and explicit rules to take them as Heavy Support. Which is right? Well there's no core override rule of any kind. So both are. If one had "May ONLY be taken as x." Then we would have the standard "Does it say explicitly say you can? And does it explicitly say you cannot?" ruling of the game. But we don't So when it says both are true, then both are true. This isn't a computer that breaks down.

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>>51013124
>Tyrants will also never be bad in ZM.
>Tfw your enemy brings dudes with missile launchers to a tunnel fight

>>51013155
Aww

>>51013340
>Everything is terrible because there exists at least one scenario where it gets destroyed.

Everything can be destroyed, question is how reliably and how much investment it'll take from the enemy to do so. There's not that many units that can reliably take out a Spartan and many that do can be countered themselves quite effectively.

No, I'm not bitter that my melta-bomb squads got nerfed the fuck out of existence by GW and now I'm forced to spend more money to make those units useful in other things.

What is the best way to deploy Perturabo in a lower than 3000 point list (no Tormentor)? I've been thinking drop pod him in the enemy's deployment zone and have Tyrant Siege Termies teleport on his location in turn 1. Thoughts?

>>51013330
Wait until he hears about The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser or Beowulf.
Thinking anything in GeeDubs is wholly original is a mistake.

>>51012867
I wanted to use him and his nucio vox to accurately deep strike termites and pin point barrages amongst enemy lines.

Doesn't he grant tank hunter and wrecker to the bikes heavy weapons?

>>51013447
>Everything can be destroyed, question is how reliably and how much investment it'll take from the enemy to do so. There's not that many units that can reliably take out a Spartan and many that do can be countered themselves quite effectively.
That requires more elaboration than
>And more thinks to fuck with those things.(sic)
Because there's always more things to fuck with more things. Its the Heresy. Fucking and things were prevalent.

>>51013554
>Doesn't he grant tank hunter and wrecker to the bikes heavy weapons?

No, it specifically says he grants them to infantry

>>51013508
So the army cannot roll for reserves turn one unless Perturabo is actually on the table? Boooo! He should teleport with his Iron Circle, let alone his Tyrant unit, whom can shoot at a target with BS5 while Perturabo uses the sgt's Omniscope to drop a bombardment on a different target.

>>51013508
> thoughts
I wish IW bitter fags would stop shitting up the place with their stale memes and shitty WIP pics they are too afraid to post on /wip/

>>51013574
Back to the drawing board. Haven't been able to find a unit that can help me with my mobile comand unit and scatterless army.

>>51013598
Autismo please go.

>>51013598
Those particular thoughts, while valid, are rather problematic.

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>>51013598
>People fighting theoretical warfare on how to deal with a Spartan and how correct was the sentence "the Falchion does something"
>It's the IW's fault! They're shitting the thread all by themselves
To the pain glove with you.

>>51013598
IF still buttmad about the Iron Cage detected

>>51013340
My interpretation of why I would not allow it is that they demonstrated intent when they moved them over to heavy support. They did it in an erratta/FAQ at first, it remained that way, and then they moved it in the next book.

Without any seeming intent or even awareness, there was a typo (my opinion) in one of the books that has labelled them as both.

RAW, of course, you could make your argument but the RAI is 100% clear and it feels cheesy to knowingly go against the RAI outside of money tournaments.

Honestly I would currently vote for the: you can't take them at all (which if fucking horrifying). But as you said in your post, commission = exclusion. So the first entry basically says they are elites and cannot be taken as heavy support (ommission) and the second says that they can be taken as heavy supports but not elites (same reason). To me that is the true (and shitty) RAW.

>>51013652
Why would we be angry? It was effectively a draw.

>>51013673
So who knows, that's what you're saying.
And we cannot know until FW emits an offishul statement, aka in about 2 years.

>>51013699
Yes, that is what I am saying I guess. However I would still claim the RAI is clear, so go with that.

>>51013563
>That requires more elaboration than

Well, for example the Lightning is easy to Intercept out of the skies before it even gets to fire. Of course by "reliable" I mean something that can, on average, one shot the Spartan. For example 3 medusas will, on average, cause 1 penetrating hit.

>>51013692
IIRC, IF got wrecked so hard that Pert got a nice promotion to Demon Prince as recognition of his epic trolling.

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>>51013708
go with whaaaat?

>>51013744
RAI is clear. They purposefully moved them (boo) to heavy support to hard block bringing them in PoTL lists. This is pretty clearly the "standard" ruling that is used and should not change when/if FW get off their fucking lazy asses.

Like, seriously. How the fuck do they get away with such glaring issues? They could just fucking pay 2 of the nerds in this thread below minimum wage and there would not be a single issue.

>>51013794
oh god, a typo that changes my entire sentance.

I meant the current "standard" ruling should not be changed UNTIL FW get in gear.

>>51013727
All we really know about the iron cage is that both ultimately bowed to the obvious superiority of the Ultramarines.

>>51013794
But what if they regret the change and turned them back into Elites?
>They could just fucking pay 2 of the nerds in this thread below minimum wage and there would not be a single issue.
I wish they would pay me, but /tg/ didn't even pick me as janitor :^(
>>51013807
>oh god, a typo that changes my entire sentance.
Isn't it?
FW's real problem is they merely copy-pasted the page, didn't edit it.
People in Dorn's forts reroll Pinning tests, but his legion isn't pinned anymore while in cover. Mortals can still make use of it I guess, but you get what I'm saying.

>>51013872
>MASTERS OF ALL MYRIAD DISCIPLINES OF WAR
t. Not Ward

>>51013872
Ward pls go

>>51013673
>that they demonstrated intent
Theres no way to prove that. Unless they want javelins to be Lords of War too

>They did it in an erratta/FAQ at first
Never seen or heard of that.

> RAI is 100% clear
It's not. For several reasons, least of which if it were, we wouldnt be discussing it.

>Honestly I would currently vote for the: you can't take them at all (which if fucking horrifying)
I don't think there's any rule that does that. YOu either can or cant, and theres no 'can't' ruling.

>>51013872
And both sides turned against the hated smurfs, thus beginning the Wardian Heresy. There were no were no reported survivors of the offending cobalt colored marines after the Burning of Macragge and the purging of the Ultramar Sector.

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>>51014029
That's right. Those Ultramarines, are they for real?

>>51013652
I play 30k DA.
However they are on hold until I hear about the next fucking book.
Really tempted by DG though... they already have all their shit, so no waiting around. Also, all those sick legion terminators. Terminators are cool.

>>51014067
Tyrant Siege Termies are the best Termies aesthetically.

>>51013958
Curzefag plz go.
Like, forever.

>>51014084
Hey, I like Curzefag!

>>51014082
>the best Termies aesthetically.
>no official model
I see what you did there.

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So what happens to a marine getting fried by a volkite?

I'm modelling one that got shot by a volkite and I'm not sure how it will look. I figure deflagation look like pic related, but I'm having doubts because that effect looks like something one would experience with really low AP weapon.

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>>51014067
Come on, anon. You know you want to use creamy termies :^)

>>51014099
Put your name back on, Curzefag

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>>51014067
>DA
Even worse.

>>51014082
> best termies aesthetically
They have to get by with shit conversions (because they are made by IW players, 90% of whom suck at painting and converting) because even FW is like "who gives a fuck".
Aren't IW like the ONLY legion without a specific special unit kit? It's like FW is sending signals... signals that say "this legion is for talentless, shit tier hacks who cower in corners and spam artillery. Also all they buy is BaC and China cast Pert. Fuck them"

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>>51014142
You want a way to depict fire pouring out of all his orifices, but I don't know how to achieve that.

>>51014155
Don't tire yourself out, bud. Sounds like you have some fortifying to do elsewhere. Now, get going!

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How can marines even compete?

>>51014147
I like grave wardens and death shrouds are fucking awesome models.
Plus the legion is nicely balanced, no WAAC shit really.... must resist...

What is the correct brass to iron ratio in a paint scheme?
What is the optimal thickness of hazard stripes?
How many Imperial Fists must die to cage Perturabo?

Only a true Iron Warrior can answer these questions.

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>>51014191
>How can marines even compete?
They never could, anon :^)

>>51014181
> the. IW fag
ps I too scared to paint resin, all I use is plastic.
Pss you mean there is a step AFTER dunking the model in nuln oil!?!?

>>51014142
I think that'd be perfect. It doesn't bypass the armor, just destroys everything there.

If that doesn't satisfy, look up some old cheesy space alien movies and see what the Martian ray guns do there. It's the same idea

>>51014191
I know, right! No one else seems to understand.

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>>51011078
>>51011423

I was thinking that. Hitting on 2s makes a lot more of a difference, if you ask me.

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>>51014192
Shhh, just let it happen. You still need Book 8-9 for the DA.
Embrace the phosphex, bathe in rad, drink The Cups :^)

>>51014224
Lol, using Nuln Oil? Try multiple washes of Agrax Earthshade and Seraphim Sepia followed by edge highlighting with a gray or dull silver.

>>51014224
That's Nuln Oil Gloss you pleb.

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>>51014142
I imagine something like the execution scene from Green Mile, except a little quicker.

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Why are Ultramarines so sexy?

>>51014192

They look like vile pieces of shit, though. Literally the only redeeming thing about their color scheme is it can be done in 6 easy steps.

>prime black
>spray desert tan
>paint shiny metal
>paint green
>douse in reikland fleshshade wash
>color eyes with soulstone green

>>51013577
He doesn't need to be on the table turn one for reserve rolls. He just needs to be included in the army to start rolling turn one if wished.

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>>51014473
because they're the best

inb4 butthurt word bearers

>>51014473
pleasing colour scheme
no hippie haircuts

imperial fists are also in this category

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>>51014473
I have no problem with moderate UMs. But only them.

>>51014493
Can he just deep strike with an attached squad turn 1 then (albeit without Nuncio Vox assistance) ?

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>>51014517
>no hippie haircuts
Not everyone can properly rock short hair. At least not your banner boy

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>>51014142
Im pretty sure its something more like this, it ignites the marine inside the armor. I've always thought Volkites as just futuristic flamers, instead of using actual flames it shoots energy that ignites whatever biological component it touches, deflagrate could be either the ray bouncing off or passing through the main target .

>>51014553
got to wonder who sculpted that piece of work

Also got to wonder why they stopped making optional helmets for their characters. Sigismund in particular.

>>51014558
I was under the impression that it was phosphex

>>51014558

Plasma = glowing energy containment fields
Melta = channeled lava containment beams
Volkite = microwave bursts
Lasers = flashlights

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>>51014558
Sort of locallized heat rays. They deposit so much heat on the target it burst into flames.

>>51014604

Isn't phosphex concentrated acidic substance?

>>51014558
I imagine Volkites as arcing electricity. I think the IWs in the picture are on fire in this picture because their tank got wrecked, note the fire in the interior.

>>51014537
All reserve rolls can be made turn one if you want. I have a buddy that would roll for Perrty+termie unit, and 2 more termie units turn one with a Damocles to get them in and no scatter

>>51014558

>TARTAROS WAS THE MOST ADVANCED FORM OF PROTECTION THEY SAID
>HEAT CANT EVEN MELT TARTAROS STEEL BEAMS THEY SAID

>>51014604
Pretty sure phosphes has a green colour to it.

I think it's just that the tank got hit and that one dude in the corner is on fire because of it, trying to put himself out.

>>51014660
Burning Promethean can't melt Tartaros plates.
BURNING PROMETHEAN CAN'T MELT TARTAROS PLATES!!!

>>51014637
It's more like scifi chlorine trifluoride.

>>51014660
It's just advanced, not the best protected.

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>>51014669
It varies, sources (the codex, Echoes of the Old Night) claim it's blue or white-green.
Pic unrelated, I think this is flesh-eating virus

>>51013130
How so?

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>>51014558
Oh fug wrong pic.

>>51013130
Jesus, man, next you'll claim Gaunt's Ghosts is ripping off Sharpe.

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>>51014771
Well, everything is a rip off of anything as long as you have enough imagination.

>>51011634
>When you half-ass drilling a barrel.

>>51014640
Thank you! You're a scholar and a gentleman, and there are damn few of them left.

What are Night Lords supposed to be good at?

>>51014821
I know there are MLP minifigs, I'd like to make a proxy army with those if they're the same size, now.

>>51014929
Not much

>>51014142
A lot of snaps and sparks as the armor atomically combusts. Flames shooting out of soft joints.

Your pic plus >>51014172 would do it

>>51014929
Being spooky.

>>51014929
getting bullied

>>51014876
Glad to help anon. Hope your bitterness does you well.

>>51014558
>Volkite Russes
I wish they were a tad better.

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>>51014876
The Dodekatheon would be /HHG/'s ideal version. Plus memes.

>>51015019

Solar Auxilia are not the stars of the show, unfortunately.

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>>51015068
And the best-of-the-best second-only-to-marines SA can outnumber the Imperial Militia, the myriad of the Imperium's hosts.

>>51014929
Kicking people in the balls and shanking them in the back.

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>>51015044
>you will never spend hours fighting mock sieges in Perturabo's autistic mil-sim rts with your IW bros

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>>51015108
Damn right. But also for getting bullied and their backs broken >>51014994

>>51014929
Getting wrecked by Dark Angels

does anybody here run a 500-1000 point SA supplement to their legion? if so...what do you take? I feel like it'd be a cool ally to have even though it's apparently a "boring" main force.

>>51015123
I'd rather be a part of guilliman's mil-sim autism.

Is there any point in taking Veteran squads as Night Lords when in have access to terror squads?

>>51015134
I think an allied force of Tonk commander + Tonks & Veletaris in Tonkosans is a viable force.
Oooor you could add some forts through your Lasrifle's Dedicated Aegis lines. You can bring six Aegis lines that way, due to the SA being able to bring three troops as a single Troops choice.

>>51015173
I dont think so but you cant go wrong with taking them in a Terror assault list with something like a bunch of combi-meltas in a drop pod and machine killers.

>>51015184
solar auxilia/militia chimeras when

I know the dracosan is better, but I hate it.

>>51015260
>chimeras

Rhinos, bikes, land speeders, and land raiders when?

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>>51015158
We've heard about outsiders in the WE's gladiator pits, like Amit and Sigismund.
I wonder how it would outsiders feel in a Dodekatheon meeting for the first time, especially an Ultramarine.

>tfw they are already talking about differential equations but you still can't get over the fact a decimation to your own legion would number 2.5 TS legions worth of marines, and you lost focus for a second and now they're talking about the best ways to fall after getting shot so your corpse becomes a czech hedgehog.

>>51015252

I was actually looking at PotL because I like being able to Deepstrike terminators. I figure some Vox scouts with a double plasma fist contemptor riding in a Dreadclaw would be nice to go along with them.

Then, I was looking at Vets because they're also troops. Why not, right?

Maybe I could stick a Vigilator in with some vets with a Vox instead or something, though I kinda wanted to do that with raptors.

>>51014728

That's the Life Eater.

>>51015436
Yeah, Life Eater. I knew "flesh-eater" wasn't its name.

>>51015436
by the way do you know the source of that comic-like image?

>>51015322
I dunno, at a legionary-legionary level smurfs and iron boys probably wouldn't find it too hard to mingle. They're almost two sides of the same coin with all the new fluff about them, without the inherent antagonism of the fists. Though their primarchs didn't see eye to eye, it's not like pert's ideas went unappreciated by guilliman either.

Ultras a bit more righteous, Warriors a bit more cynical, but both still bumming around with wargames and 'tism in their spare time. Less of a culture shock than, say, a White Scar getting stuck in a Dodekatheon.

>>51015552

Special Edition of Flight of the Eisenstein. It's colourised internal artwork.

Also reminder that if Isstvan III had giant Flamethrowers on their buildings, they could have burned the Life Eater away before it hit the planet and thus saved everyone.

>>51015579

Both of them are pragmatic, although ultimately Pert and the IWs would have been too fatalistic for Smurf idealism. Where Pert would say throw more termies at the problem, Guilliman would try to combine different tactics from his chef book to create a new recipe.

>>51015606
Someone should have told Tallarn about that too.

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>>51015606
So what you're saying is we need to put more flamers on everything?

>>51015701

Really, it's all Vulkan's fault for not sharing his anti-life eater weapons around.

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>>51015579
Considering the dog-like meaning of the word Cynical, I don't think IW are like that. Those guys say that nothing matters because life itself doesn't matter. IWs accept their mortality is ever present in the uncaring war and lives may need to be used, victory paid in blood, but I doubt they think nothing ever matters.
As in, being aware of your own mortality doesn't instantly make you cynical and nihilistic.

Huh, non-IVth guests in the Dodekatheon do make it more interesting!

>a White Scar in the Dodekatheon
>>Hey you guys love artillery, right? What if we had Artillery Jetbikes?
>>FUND IT! FUND IT! FUND IT!
Rumour says those jetbikes are still under construction, but they are experimenting with Sky Slayer Multimelta Jetbikes and the Praetor who hosted that WS has loaded his and his Jetbike Command Squad's Heavy bolters with Shrapnel bolts :^)

>>51015606
You are aware about 1/3 of betrayed marines survived the Life Eater because they went full Indiana Jones on it, right?
I mean Morturg's squad survived by welding shut a cargo contained. And considering Morturg was a Destroyer Centurion, they probably did it using only hand-flamers.
Lots of ECs survived by taking refuge inside the Governor's fortified palace.
Lots of DG survived because they were fighting innaground
How the fuck did the WE survive I don't know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nznaDYN9czs

>>51015701
Since Tallarn still had people left after they got bombed, did anyone every try to go back and resettle the Isstvan system?

>>51015740
>Those guys say that nothing matters because life itself doesn't matter.
that's not what cynicism is, that's nihilism

iron warriors are unquestionably cynical

>>51015740
> How the fuck did the WE survive I don't know

Too angry to die. In all seriousness they did the same thing, at least one company of WE (in the book) sheltered in underground bunkers and/or hangers.

>>51015744

Would you resettle a system which is historically known for being stricken by cataclysmic warp storms known to usher in localized instances of the Old Night? Not even the Blood Ravens resettled Icy Aurelia.

>>51015777
>There are four reasons why the Cynics are so named. First because of the indifference of their way of life, for they make a cult of indifference and, like dogs, eat and make love in public, go barefoot, and sleep in tubs and at crossroads. The second reason is that the dog is a shameless animal, and they make a cult of shamelessness, not as being beneath modesty, but as superior to it. The third reason is that the dog is a good guard, and they guard the tenets of their philosophy. The fourth reason is that the dog is a discriminating animal which can distinguish between its friends and enemies. So do they recognize as friends those who are suited to philosophy, and receive them kindly, while those unfitted they drive away, like dogs, by barking at them
As in, you can't bribe them because they have no interest in anything you could offer them, they don't give a fuck about anything.
Yes, I'm going by Diogenes' definition. You know, the guy to whom Alexander said he would grant any wish and he merely responded:
>I wish you would move, you're blocking my sun :^)

TL;DR: What did you even mean by cynism, I just assumed stuff. You didn't really say anything now that I read it again, kek.

>>51015740
>>51015799

Surviving WE partnered up with other Legions or tried to hide deep underground. All the survivors walked out of the underground or some kind of makeshift barricade to an afternoon of OMGWTF.

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>>51015744
The Istvaan system was horribly fucked up after the initial betrayal and the Dropsite Massacre, and after all of the shit that went down there even the Imperium wasn't willing to try resettling it. Istvaan III was the only worth inhabiting, and that was Life Eater'd and Heresy'd into uselessness.

>>51015740
>Those guys say that nothing matters because life itself doesn't matter.

Thats not Cynicism, a Cynic is someone that basically doesnt believe in human society and its values. Classical cynicism meant someone that was willing to live outside of society and in nature so as to live a life of virtue, a modern cynic is just someone thats basically a pessimist when it comes to society, Iron Warriors fit the modern description better plus they are very stoic when it comes to their own mortality, just like the Imperial Fists.

>>51015870

Loyalist IW are modern cynics, Pert's IW are cutthroat opportunists

>>51015847
>Chase Istvaanian (Istvaani?) troopers all the way into these huge underground bunkers and slaughter the lot of them.
>Doors seal themselves after getting in
>When you finally get out, some EC fuckwad is trying to cobble survivors into a makeshift fighting force
>Also everyone and everything that isn't this EC fuckwad is apparently dead
"Brothers! How did you survive the virus-bombing?"
"There was a virus-bombing?"

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>>51015844
Given I am not talking about Greek philosophers and merely used the word cynic in casual conversation, chances are I was referring to what would be the modern definition of cynicism.

>>51015870
Ahh modern cynism instead of classical. I guess that makes sense.

>>51014558
>Russ with lascannon sponsons

If only...

>>51016015

anon...

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>>51015944
Well HH3 does say they are prone to mistrust and paranoia.
>>51015902
I'm loyal, but Perturabo's ideas were simply...ahead of his time. If the Ecclesiarchy draws from the Lectitio Divinatus to make the Imperial Cult and the Assassinorum uses one of Morty's quotes as a motto, then probably many of the Imperial Guard's "throw more bodies at it" tactics are based on Perturabo's writings :^)

>>51016059

Perturabo was ultimately fatalistic, though. He sacrificed simply to win. There was no real meaning to him and his IW beyond winning, no building towards a brighter future or all that. Thats the one contrast between IW and IF, and also the one contrast between dissenting loyalist IWs and the traitors. Pert's IWs don't care about the future or a greater whole, only about themselves and how to enrich themselves.

They're so sad and pitiful that we have that infamous case of an ostracized and cast out IW commander having to find friendships in robots just to keep on living as a person.

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>>51016090
Because he (and his legion) did not believe in the Great Crusade. And Dorn believed in it with more intensity than Lorgar's belief in the Emperor.
Or more intensity than a pain glove's 10th setting, for that matter.

>>51014489
Shit tier ones look almost as bad as IW, it's true.
But Death Guard painted well, then adding weathering, rust, oil marks...
They look awesome

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>>51016320
Weathering = perfect
:^)

>>51016030
wut?

>>51016383
lets say, thats one way to hide your shitty chinacast

So apparently the new Adeptus Titanicus will be set in 30k.

>>51016142

You don't necessarily have to believe in the ideals of the Great Crusade to not be a fatalistic cynic. But Pert had no interest in troubling himself with loyalty to the Emperor after scouring his homeworld. (Or maybe he rebelled because he felt shame over the scouring deep down inside and just wanted to burn everything down to wash away the guilt, thus the willingness to throw his own troops away in vainglorious pursuits.)

>>51016397

Aren't you touchy tonight, Morty?

>>51016398
We've known for ages. The original was what created 30k, so it was hardly a surprise.

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>>51016397
It is? Looks good to me.
It's strange, I thought I had named that pic "Anon's DG shovel"

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>>51014191
non bait question : are these good ?
I dont know if 1d4 chan and this general is sarcastic or not.

and since 8th is only going to do minor tweaks, i'm looking to expand on my 2 unopened Prospero box

>>51016450

I have never seen them used in a battle report. Take that for what you will.

>>51016450
Iron Circle is there to make sure your HQ doesnt die, he probably wont die unless it gets the D but at the same time they are close combat robots that have to walk around so you wont be getting any charges or meeting the enemy anytime soon.

They are expensive, pack a punch but only in close combat and cant get a transport, I guess they're fine if you have a gunline and want some counter-charge units but Terminators could be better for that. Take them if you like them but they're not the best.

Domitars fucking suck, there's no redeeming quality to them except they look cool.

>>51016450
Beep Boops can't take a ride and cannot deep-strike or anything, so they have to walk the whole way. Even if they reach CC they have so little attacks that making back their points is out of the question. They are kinda hard to kill, but for those points you might as well get leviathans or something

>>51016555

What if they get updated with treads or hover platforms?

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>>51016398
What do you think the whole Incaladion thing was?
29 000 dead IWs and the Secutarii end up stealing all the glory.
It's alright, it's not like we wanted a "thank you" or anything, b-baka!
>>51016411
But it helps. Loyalty to the Imperium of Mankind and a unified galaxy, now that's something greater than any primarch.

>>51016578
If they were updated with Deep Strike by means of teleportation, maybe that would get it done.
And give them real ranged weapons.

>>51016617

>teleporters
>wheels
>quad lascannons
>phosphex launcher
>power jaws
>flame dickthrower

What else does it need?

Outfitting my converted Storm Eagle. Should I give it lascannons or keep the stock Tempest Rockets?

>>51016643

Give it magnets. $110 models deserve magnets.

>>51016643
I went with lascannons and missile launcher. You can fire the lascannons an missile at the same target at the same range and use PotMS to fire the missile pods at something else.

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>>51016636
>>flame dickthrower

Anyone played with SoS as allies yet? How do they fare?

>>51016653
Converted out of a Storm Raven, not an actual Storm Eagle. If it was the real deal, I'd certainly magnetize her.

graviton rapiers worth taking? they look cool as hell and seem fluffy for iron hands

>>51010614
Would Iron Hands with a dark green pauldron be fluffy? It looks cool as shit but if it wouldn't happen, it won't happen

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>>51016976
Doesn't the UM's 1st company have green trim? IHs already exist having a red pauldron, why would green be illegal?

>>51016976
Why not? Could be your chapter's color or your dudes are traitors that have sided with the Warmaster. Its your dudes.

>>51016976

Call them the verdegris chapter, I dunno.

The universe is a big place and whatever happens you will not be missed.

Resist the impulse to make 30k into a goddamn Napoleonic historical in some psychotic cargo-cult attempt to earn the approval of grogs.

Do any of the HH books focus on the Imperial Army?

I'm a Guard player and I liked Mechanicus, but 3+ vs. 3+ is dull as hell for me.

InB4: 30k is the wrong place to be. Literally, nah. The ImpArm/Tagmat/SolAux lists are awesome.

>>51017274
Militia's bit of a clusterfuck, but if you like guardsmen then Militia can work.

>>51017274

Conquest features a lot of solar Auxilia who are very legit in game although very expensive.

>>51017274
HH4 has SA Old man MaSade unleashing like 50 Knights.

>>51017291

I like the Militia and SA lists, I was more thinking of the Black Library books.

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>Ran seekers for the first time ever
>as a joke I fire the blast shells, I don't even rapid fire them
>end up getting 5 direct hits on the scatter dice and 5 strong partials
>46 S3 hits


So that's what playing guard feels like

>>51017346
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZJHjLXWYNM#t=42
What were you shooting at, some tactical blob?

>>51017346
I know they aren't very good, but I really want to run some for that sorta shenanigans
roll for world burner for keks

>>51017391

Veteran tacticals, yeah. It killed most of them and the scorpius barrage next turn finished them off

>>51017408

Seekers were phenomenal, easily my MVP. I even forgot they were BS 5 and totally forgot about preferred enemy.

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>>51017346
drowning any infantry in save rolls is a legit strat, keep it up anon, the look on someones face as they start failing to many saves is great.

>>51014155
AFAIK, The Tyrant Siege Termies did have a kit in the works, but it got shelved because FW didn't like the way it was turning out. There were apparently plans to start over, but nothing's come of that yet.

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>>51017498
If they are going to end as the Conteptor they can remain in the freezer forever.
>>51017460
Only against the designated prey, but yeah they're awesome, outclass some legion specifics now.

>>51017528
I love the Contemptor though. The only bad things are the MkIV-esque helms in a MkII upgrade set, and the chest pieces.

>>51017528
Hah, accurate pic. Still don't know what the fuck is up with those torsos. They look like Anvil Industries parts. And why does the Contemptor look like i's been patched up with scrap metal?

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>>51017544
>I love the Contemptor
I know some of you do. All three of you :^)
>The only bad things are the MkIV-esque helms in a MkII upgrade set, and the chest pieces.
Eh, you could use the MkIv heads on mkiv dudes, it's not as if the IW had no such pattern. They even had beakies.

>>51017605
Aw, but anon, the set is labeled MKII. I do not like the MkIV-esque helms in it.

>>51017544
The Contemptor looks more appropriate for Orks than Iron Warriors, IMO. If they'd made it into a looted Contemptor, then the weird patchwork torso would fit.

>The only bad things are the MkIV-esque helms in a MkII upgrade set

I suspect they did up some helms based on a few different Marks as test pieces, said fuck it, and just threw them all into one kit. Just like how the Salamanders heads are a mix of Mk II - IV.

The only one in the IW kit that's definitely Mk IV is the one with the chevron faceplate though. The other two designs look more like Legion-specific bits without a specific Mark.

> and the chest pieces

Yeah, they look like someone who'd only seen Mk VII armour tried to make Mk II torsos, going entirely off of secondhand descriptions. Not very IWish either.

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>>51015944
>marked by ill temper
mfw that's spot on

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>>51017590
>And why does the Contemptor look like i's been patched up with scrap metal?
Because it is. Sheated in Steel and such.
IWs fucking loooooove extra armour, be it spaced armour add ons, attached ablative armour on Kyr's ship, you name it

>>51017115
In 30k or 40k? In 40 it's silver for 1st, gold for 2nd, green for 3rd.

>>51017639
It doesn't really look like it's been reinforced with extra armour though, more like a patch-job repair that's barely holding together. As I touched on here...

>>51017633

... it makes it look more like an IW Contemptor after it got looted by Orks.

>>51017638
Not 40K-related, but I really want to buy Maritza a pet mouse.

>>51010614
What HH books do I need to read before Praetorian of Dorn and Master of Mankind? I haven't read anything since Pharos came out, but these are getting a lot of positive feedback (ADB daddy issues memeing aside) online.

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>>51017661
Well, sheated in scrap then :^)
It is said they tried a "battle-scarred" look, and the fluff from HH3 does support that claim.
>>51017655
>silver for 1st, gold for 2nd
Guilliman never got over how he wasn't named neither Warmaster nor Auric Paetorian, did he?

>>51017639
>Mars pattern
>inferior

By the Omnissiah, what heretek writes this shit?

>>51017485
>drowning any infantry in save rolls is a legit strat
I like the idea of big blobs of Tacticals, I know they aren't the most effective, but 3 Tacs instead of one Plasmarine is good maths, no? Especially with AL where one can Infitrate/Scout to get in a sweet spot to blast off FotL.

>>51017711
Is MkII inferior to MkIV, anon? Does the Pope protect mafia rapey priests?

>>51017711
General "older is better" stuff that's crept into 30/40K's writing in recent years. It's one part hamming up the grimdark (because we don't already know that M41 is a hopeless, grim, dark period of grim dark grimdarkness where everyone is a slave working 23 hours a day, 7 days a week, every week, forever), one part "buy our premium (read: pricier) resin crack instead of the plastic alternatives".

>>51017711
Question, is Mars supposed to represent the best or the basic?

Does something being a Mars pattern hold any significance in the fluff?

>>51017791
Produced on Mars seems to mean that it's guaranteed to be widely available (relatively speaking), but not necessarily the best. Same thing with the Indomitus pattern Terminator armour, which became prolific because its STC template was held by Mars.

>>51017752

15k > 30k > 40k

40k is the Medieval period, 30k is the late Medieval, DAoT is the Renaissance.

>>51017698
>before Praetorian of Dorn
The Dark King and the Lightning Tower. Crimson Fist if you're interested in Sigismund's story arc, the Last Remembrancer also provides some insight into Dorn's mind.

As for MoM, haven't read it yet so I can't tell.

>>51017707
Fair enough, guess it's just not to my taste. It would make a cool base for an Ork Looted Contemptor though.

>>51017831
I should be able to jump into PoD soon then, since I've read those, apart from TLM (which will be quick, being a short story and all).

>>51017485
>that artwork
Ah, the days where Marines' heads were too large, not too small. Good times.

>>51017485
Is that Johnny over in the bottom right corner? What's he doing without his trusty bolter clip!

>>51017485
>Turnpike 13A

This is supposed to be the Heresy right?

If so, what are they doing in New Jersey?

What in New Jersey is even worth having, much less fighting over?

>>51013598
>shitty WIP pics

Oh don't you worry, I post there too. How's your army oming btw? Posting wip pics of decent models is and always will be leagues better than shitposting X did nothing/everything wrong.

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>>51017899
>Johnny
>bolter clip

>>51017945

WIP did everything wrong.
Lorgar did nothing wrong.

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>>51018019
Oh no you didn't.

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>>51017899
I'll give you a hint where he actually is.

>>51018051

Rowboat did everything wrong.

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>>51018068

>>51017899
>Well I don't know why I came on this op,
>I got the feeling that something ain't right,
>I get so scared in case I fall out of my gun,
>And I'm wondering how I'll get down to some fun,
>There's titans to the left of me,
>Heretics to the right, here I am,
>Stuck in the middle with you, Johnny.

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>>51017948
Decades ago, Citadel released a set of Mk VI beekees sculpted by Aly Morrison and the Citadel Design Team. In very early advertisements, da Studio Ladz gave them all names, and they chose the cast of the Adam West Batman TV serial as their inspiration. There's a Brother (Adam) West, Brother (Burt) Ward, Brother (Burgess) Meredith, Captain (Cesar) Romero, Brother (Frank) Gorshin, etc. One of the models was named Brother Craig after Yvonne Craig, the actress that played Batgirl.

A few years later (c. 1990), Citadel published their Blue Catalogue. None of the old marines had fun names any more, just part numbers and descriptions: "Bolter 10", "Power Sword and Bolt Pistol", "Meltagun", etc. Brother Craig, however, was strangely absent; so, if he ever had a proper part number, we have no idea what it might have been.

Fast forward to a couple of years ago, when some clever anon grabbed this picture of Brother Craig and applied the "Kill 'em All Johnny!" treatment to it. Brother Craig looks like he's having a conversation with his bolter magazine the same way Johnny from Ed Edd, and Eddy has with his wooden "friend", Plank.

>>51018090
I remember the fuck out of the blue catalog, it's what got me to switch from D&D to 40k!

Fucking blue catalog...

>>51016604
>But it helps. Loyalty to the Imperium of Mankind and a unified galaxy, now that's something greater than any primarch.
The emperor was a tyrant, rebellion is the morally righteous thing to do.

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>>51017927
>In the far flung future of the 31st Millennium, New Jersey is still pissing people off

>tfw FW will never release a kit of those old Marine guns with the horizontal grip at the back
>tfw they'll never release bolters with the magazine at the very front of it
>tfw they can't even release Sol pattern heavy bolters as their own kit

Everyone's just creaming their jeans over some shitty steel donuts.

>>51018068
Now I'm sure Johnny was also a recurring character for the artists back in the day. Not the first time I see a Johnny in art.

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>>51018154
As I remember, the artists used the models as a source. Good to see some things never, ever change...

>>51018175
Well it is easier to draw something whilst looking at it, rather than coming up with something yourself and making it look realistic.

And it promotes the models too !

>>51018175
The rifle guy in lower right behind wand man
>I can be the new wand guy if I can just shoot him while no one is looking.
>Riiiiight about.... now

>>51018110
The Emperor was a tyrant that wanted the whole galaxy to dance to his tune, who was not above of lying to his subjects or betraying his allies and erasing them from history, who pursued a xenocidal campaign that wouldn't think twice about unleashing his fury upon innocents that merely didn't want part of it, all for the sake of a unified mankind

Of course I'm with him!

Such is what was needed to destroy the xenos, the mutant and the chaos spawn.

I'll never understand those "I don't want to be a policeman!" feelings from the traitor legions, when there was so much Crusading left to do!! Go purge the Halo Stars, extinguish all remaining Eldar and destroy those hidden Ullanors and Ork attack moonz, and then you would still be under the potential threat of Necrons, Tyranids and traitors from within with their disguised warp cults.

Go crusade and be an Imperial man.

>>51018227
I think the bigger issue for the traitor legions was that they didn't want no puny humans to rule over them. Superiority complex and all that.

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>>51018261
True. They forgot the Imperium was never meant for them. It was meant for Mankind.

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>>51017752
>MkII
>inferior to anything
>pic related
someone make an Imperial Knight version

>>51017899
>Clip
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>51018227
Perturabo specifically didn't want to crusade, he wanted to be a builder like Dorn got to be. Lorgar just wanted to sit in his room all day reading the bible and fasting, Angron simply hated the emperor, and Mortarion resented the emperor for being a tyrant.

Regardless even ignoring the hypocrisy of the emperor, even ignoring the massive flaws in his plan, and even accepting that his plan was required to save humanity it doesn't matter. Tyrants must be slain regardless of the reason for their tyranny, abusing rights and purposely killing innocents for the greater good doesn't put you above people who abuse rights and kill innocents for their own gain.

>>51018261

I've always been a fan of the idea that *all* the marines should have rebelled in the HH for exactly this reason.

Of a piece with the Men of Iron, really.

>>51018382
the marines only rebelled cause the primarchs did
and even then many stayed loyal in the traitor legions
without the primarchs they probably never would have been able to mount a rebellion anywhere near as successful as the heresy

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>>51018381
The difference is that it's not for His own gain. It's for humanity's. And everyone has the good intention.
Except Angronius and Curze, those were simply (rightfully) mad.
>>51018416
>Primarchs were a mistake
t. Ra
>I told you we needed Femarchs, at least we would have gotten bewbs out of this whole mess!
t. Malcador

>>51018382
Khan hated administrating and just wanted to conquer. Honestly only one who should've had the ego would be someone like Dorn or Gulliman who was used to being in charge.

>>51018435
To me, that was the dumbest thing Malcador has said, even as a joke.

Women are terrible in groups, perhaps even more viciously so.

>>51018435
>heretics
what fucking horrible writing , you can't even use the chaos visions handwave cause lorgar says he isn't sure about the outcome
what the fuck
it's like when they include a famous person in historical fiction and off hand mention he'll never amount to anything
on a side note
malcs was literally the emperor but not retarded and without ultra-superpowers

Is the castellum stronghold worth it? I'm looking to get a fortification(s) for my force and was looking at void shield generators, aegis defence line, and some turrets. That amount of plastic almost costs the same for both points and cost.

>>51018435
>The difference is that it's not for His own gain. It's for humanity's. And everyone has the good intention.
And it still makes him no different than the man who does those things for personal gain. That's exactly what I said. Napoleon may have greatly expanded the territory of France but he was still a tyrant. Caesar may have had legitimate reasons for seizing power but he was still a tyrant. It doesn't matter why you do your actions. It doesn't matter who supports your actions. A tyrant is always a tyrant regardless of intentions and regardless of results.

30/40 crossover question. There were SA and Militia units from Jupiter (Jovians) during the crusade.

1. Would they still be raising IG regiments in 40k?

1a. If so, would/could there be regimental histories stretching back to the days of the Imperial Army?

If so, does anyone know of any fluff about this (official or fannon, makes no difference to me)?

>>51018382
Nah not all the legions had cultures that promoted being a egotripping douchebag. Salamanders are the ultimate example of that, they even live between humanity and serve communities. Ultramarines were teached to work alongside humans in all things. Iron Hands don't care if you're human or marine, as long as you're not weak. Imperial Fists don't care who is in charge as long as they get to build a wall. Blood Angels were also passionate about protecting humanity. Space wolves are just to psychotic to go traitor I think.

>>51018488
it literally makes him different
sure he's still a tyrant, no one is denying that

>>51018488
Ask where I am if Napoleon was a tyrant. I and every one else will tell you no.

Exactly like the Emperor, he had a plan, a vision for the country, that he put in motion, made the country a much more organised place, with better laws, actually codified, structured the administrative etc. And just like the Emperor he got busted before finishing his project. Tyrant or not, he was definitely a big positive for France. Sure not everything he did was right, like re-establishing slavery but he his still widely apprecated by pretty much everyone.

>>51018535
There are canon traitor and Chaos Space Wolves though. Skyrar's Dark Wolves who are lead by a pretty cool dude.

>>51018488
>>51018545

He's clearly a despot (one who rules by decree). Whether he's a tyrant (a despot you dislike) depends on whether you've sold your soul immortal to the ruinous powers in return for venal gain, you fucking heretic.

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>>51018488
>And it still makes him no different than the man who does those things for personal gain
That's where you are wrong, anon. Emps does it for mankind.
Oh, don't assume I don't know he's a tyrant. Of course he is. But that's the thing: Humanity NEEDS tyrants, because in the setting the species has not yet reached a point where they can rule themselves, so they need something inhuman as leaders and champions.
That's the role the Emperor and his marines fulfill.
The Men of Iron may have destroyed the previous Empire, but they remained down because they depended on the unreliable warp, and even with the webway the issue of psychic guidance would still need to be resolved, all the while dealing with a hungry and uncaring galaxy.
But mankind can seize it all for itself! Only it needs guidance, and that one is the Emperor.
But don't ask him to be a kind father, because nothing will be gained from that. Ask him to be ruthless and ask yourself to be stronk enough to keep up with him.

Srsly, did you want a galactic president or something?
Please.
This is 30(40)k the most extreme of escenarios, get used to the most extreme of measures.

>>51018527
well there was a regiment of agathon in the fluff defending an argi world in the 41th millennium but i think they were just regular Ig at that point equipment wise

i don't think there is any fluff about how the solar auxilia template ran into disuse
i hope we'll get some of our toys ported over a tleast into 40k, with the new black crusade coming i'dd love to see well equipped regiments of the segmentum solaris
if the men of saturn don't have auxilia shit still then no one will

>>51018527
Every world in the Imperium is tasked with defending themselves and for the autonomy the Imperium grants the governor, they are to pay the Imperium in men and materials. Only a select few planets are exempt from this, like Marine worlds (though they'd be wise to still have PDF forces).

So I'm sure even Jupiter would still raise regiments to their defence and pay their tithe to the Guard in men and materials.

>>51018569
tyrant originally meant someone who ruled alone without the negative connotation anon
considering everything in 30 and 40 k goes by pseudo latin and/or greek tyrant is a correct word
though despot would probably be better

>>51018582
>Solar Aux in 40k

They might be Stormtroopers or Grenadiers (Stormtroopers without the pants-on-head retarded nu-fluff about the Scholae the newest codex created).

>>51018600
i fucking hope so

>>51018604

Given the hardon for atavism and regimental histories in 40k they would almost certainly never drop the "Solar Auxillia" designation, at least not from their colors. That shit is a hard-won title.

>>51018563
>Ask where I am if Napoleon was a tyrant. I and every one else will tell you no.
Doesn't mean he isn't. Popularity doesn't make you right.

>>51018576
>That's where you are wrong, anon. Emps does it for mankind.
YES OF FUCKING COURSE HE DOES! I have been agreeing with that point all along you illiterate retard. I am saying that it doesn't matter that he does it for the good of mankind or the good of France like Napoleon or for his own survival like Caesar and Sulla. They are still a tyrants and while they may not necessarily deserve death morally speaking one should oppose them at every turn simply because they are tyrants,

>>51018636
>while they may not necessarily deserve death morally speaking one should oppose them at every turn simply because they are tyrants,
Gee anon, I hope I'm getting it wrong but that sounds like you'd disobey your parents because, even though they know best and want the best for you they're still your parents so you just gotta disobey them :^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDxa2tmbhSg
Eat your veggies and don't pray to any Dark Gods.

>>51018636

So mankind dies so you can pull your little freedumb boner.

At least I now understand the Heretic.

>>51018636
That is debatable.

Do you want a democracy where nothing moves and everything goes to shit, with your only consolation is "well at least I don't have someone in power that I didn't elect" or would you prefer a power in place that the people have not chosen but extremely competent?

Having lived in France and Singapore, I can assure you Singapore (often described as a happy dictatureship) is much better to live in than France. Obviously the scale is not the same, one is smaller than the capital and suburbs of the other, but you know what I mean.

Being a Tyrant with your examples mean taking power forcefully. But then the tyrants you've used have all been beneficial to the population and the country.

Ask the common man which one he'd prefer. The common man link with democracy these days is the general election every 4-5 years. There's a reason more and more people think democracy is not that important if it prevent the lives of the population from getting better. Anyhoo, I'm going wayyy too far in this.

>>51018636

and the most thinly veiled xenos post of the day award goes to .....

>rebelling for the sake of rebelling
jesus anon ...

>>51018382
Except some of them weren't selfish pricks. When Girlyman reformed the Imperium, he specifically denies Marines seat in the High Lords and limited their political power, because Marines were made to fight for humanity, not rule it.

After which he went home to rule over his own little empire and from time to time his Marines would storm Terra to slap some sense into the High Lords. But other than that, no meddling in Imperial politics.

>>51018688
Oh fug it was the Cabal all along! Someone toss him out of the airlock :^)

>>51018636
>Don't run in front of a bus anon, no reason to kill yourself
>YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-*splat*

>>51018620
He isn't right because He is mighty, He is mighty because He is right.