Oldhammer/Rogue Trader

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Perhaps looking back is more pleasant than looking forward

Has anyone tried Rogue Stars? It reminds me a lot of Rogue Trader.

I don't understand why the old ones are generally so bad.
The sculptor's of today can't be any better than the sculptors from 30 years ago. We're still using the same metal.

>>50945282
Not all models look bad but the quality of them vary wildly. Compare a normal Space Marine to almost any Tyranid model.

>>50945282
They are bad in comparison and techniques have greatly improved.
Then, you had to do everything by hand, and it was not considered as it is now. Currently, you have digital sculpting, we have a better understanding of the materials, there are more people doing the designing instead of a small few, and the people who have been sculpting are still sculpting. Some of what you consider bad is down to different styles.

>>50945282
The nature of the moulds and materials used in scultping are leaps and bounds better. Moulds are better and more complicated aloowing for greater variety in pose. The materials used to sculpt also capture and hold detail a lot better.

Then theres the fact that the people scultping have refined their craft over 30+ years.

>>50945282
Also they aren't using the same metal. Whatever type of pewter they were using has been replaced by the 'white metal' of today with some steps in between.

>>50943747
>Samus' armor on a stick

>>50945510

To the best of my knowledge, the metal used doesn't have anything to do with it. If anything, the leaded metals used earlier produce sharper detail.

>>50945282
>>50945500

I think the biggest reason is the sculpting material, though refinement of the craft also matters.

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>>50945282
A lot of it is down to Green Stuff not existing or just not available, things being sculpted in less capable materials like milliput. Moulding tech has changed up too, as has the materials stuff is cast in, some people like Tom Meier managed to sculpt finely detailed models but casting of the time just couldn't reliably reproduce them. Plastics casting in particular was ridiculously more expensive and less capable at the same time, especially since GW has always lagged behind a lot of model companies in terms of what they can make in plastics.

>>50946094
I love those Dwarves so much.

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Dwarf models have aged the best of the era.

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Chaos models really couldn't live up to their imagery at all.

>>50947570

This

>>50945282

I think the original imp army and space marine models are pretty good. The nids, not so much.

>>50944909

What can you tell me about it

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>>50947570
Kev Adams' Goblin (and to a lesser extent, Orc) sculpts have a certain timeless appeal, at least for me.

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Why do you faggots have to turn every topic that has a successful thread into a fucking general.

Move on.

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>>50947756
>OH NO!! Some faggots are having fun!! I MUST STAHP THEM!!!!

>>50947756
it's not really a general. It's just threads about Oldhammer they'll die out soon enough like they did the last time and the time before that.

>>50943747
What are they standing on? I've been thinking about making a new Space Crusade board and that looks kinda cool...

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>>50943715
What does this thread think about Mutant Chronicles

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>>50944909
I had a look but then saw it's aimed at utterly tiny amounts of figures and stopped caring.

Closest thing I've seen to a modern Rogue Trader is Clash on the Fringe by ol' Based Ivan, favoured of /hwg/. Whilst not a direct analogue that one tries to do some interesting stuff (all weapons are template weapons of some form to represent automatic fire and such) and have a lot of variety in terms of equipment and create-able units. Still not aimed at a large scale though, more of a 20-30 figures a side including some vehicles, mostly light vehicles. Only managed to get one game of it though due to my opponent's inability to find their own models.

>>50948064
Are those old tech marines worth money? I have three different ones.

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>>50947756

>>50943715
DBZ was a great show

>>50948080
Somewhat. Depends on condition, what specific model, that kinda thing. Don't be expecting huge value though.

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http://theleadpile.blogspot.co.nz/2016/07/young-gifted-and-blackshield.html

So I just gave this a read and have been inspired to give 30k a crack with a RT inspired marine warband...

>>50948033
It looks a bit like the new Battle Systems Scifi stuff that was on KS recently.

>>50948064
Ivan also makes Starport Scum, which is a similar narrative-driven game, it also has a solo mode I think.

Patrol Angis by the Ion Age dudes is an interesting system. Roughly platoon scale, winning initiative is very important and shooting is highly lethal. Designed for 15mm but could work in 28mm with some distance tweaking.

>>50948233
I'm thinking about trying to re-make the SC boards... but I think It'll just end up with a scratch-build if I ever do.

>>50947596

Those look fine. I prefer the older stuff even if only because they didn't have to be completely WYKKED EXTREME!!1!

>>50943715

I managed to get an old 4th edition Doomwheel, it's so fucking cute!

>>50948061

MC is hella.

Has anyone played Gorkamorka on tabletop sim? If so how well did it work? (I assume that Gorkamorka is considered Oldhammer)

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Hey, anybody knows how "Oldhammer" this "Rogue Stars" game is? I've heard it mentioned here and ther but nobody seems to give an opinion. Has anybody got it? If so, how is it? Does it feel Rogue Traderish?

Also, the same for Gates of Antares. Has someone played?

>>50950548

http://theleadpile.blogs
pot.co.uk/2016/12/nope.html

>>50950548
The alternative wargames general has your answers and a demo video, Anon.

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>>50950548
>Gates of Antares. Has someone played?
Nope. It's a bad joke how much nobody gives a fuck about that game. I've seen shit published by companies a tiny fraction of the size of Warlord by authors that no-one has ever heard of that've generated more interest and discussion.

Because it's just Bolt Action in space with boring fluff and models. And everyone who wants to play not-40k-but-still-40k is playing Bolt Action already. And Bolt Action isn't Rogue Trader, being far closer (incestuously even) to 3rd edition 40k.

>>50948061
Baller game. We still play Blood Berets in my circle of friends.

>>50943738
Did the old game not have units or how did it work? I always see just a few random models.

>>50951406
One great thing about Antares is that while I was shilling my favourite niche tabletop game at my local club, there was always the one guy who liked Antares having a worse time of it to make me feel better.

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>managed to snatch up a lot of unpainted RT orks on ebay
I'm building a warband of them, and other than the lead poisoning they're quite nice.

Also, does anyone have a pdf of Heroes for Wargames? It's an old Citadel book of painted miniatures, and I believe a few of these images are from it. I have a mega full of Rogue Trader era publications for you guys in return, and some Fantasy stuff as well. I want to try running a game of it sometime in the future, so I've been collecting pdfs wherever I can find them.

https://mega.nz/#F!3lEUFAqT!KNq74iKfkpUPbKXhlbgk2g

>>50955661

Yeah, they -sometimes- go for dirt-cheap. Picked up 60 for £30 a few years ago... Nothing too rare, but a ton of RT-02 metals and a few heavy-weapon Orks.

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>>50955890
The orks were a great acquisition, but what really got me is what was mixed in there and not described on the item's page.

>>50955919

Ah, Squits.

A race few would ever have cared about if a couple of e-bayers hadn't set about artificialy inflating their price to silly levels.

I've got a few, and a sprue of arms. Someday I'll cast those arms in resin and put them all together, but right now I'm too lazy. :D

Is the guy with two guns a citadel one or a more obscure GW release? His pose is a bit OTT for early Citadel (I'm probably wrong mind). Looks a bit Maraudery or Ironclawy to me.

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Disected some garden lights earlier this year. Think they still need some work though.... and basing.

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>>50955967
I wasn't sure, so I looked it up.
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/ic501squats/fly1988rt2r1-ic501-01.htm
Looks like he is an Ironclaw Figure.

>>50956079

Iron-Claw tend to be worth a bit more though, so lucky you.

I tried getting their undead a few years back, but people wanted about £10 a model. Dunno why. I like Olley as much as most, but I'm still not paying over £10 a model... except for maybe one of the Ork Roborgs they made for GW.

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You know what we need more of besides just Beakies?

Beakies with shark teeth painted on them. Fuck yeah.

>>50956378
Where did they get plastic chainswords before the 2nd ed combat sprue? I always wondered...

>>50955919
>>50955967
>>50956079
>>50956117
I'm wondering...
>Harlequins return as a faction in their own rights
>Genestealer Cults too
>Chaos Legions got back their awesome from 3rd ED
>Squats got retconned back as a background abhuman race that didn't go extinct

I do wonder if GW ever will bring them back in some way.

Demiurgs are not enough.

>>50944122
I wouldn't mind having one or two of those chariots for my Nurgle army

>>50946094
Those dwarves are amongst the coolest I've seen. They have just so much character!

>>50947596
Alot of hit and miss there yes. Some of them could probably make for some good basis for conversion tho.

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>>50956626
I know that there was an ork/cultist weapon sprue that had some chainswords on it. They were that odd older model though, that looked almost like a scimitar.

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>>50956626
Oddly, those are newer (3rd edition) chainswords.

>>50957113
The hilts have been modified?

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>>50957131
Yeah. The tell is the little vent thing on the side, the CCW sprue version didn't have it. Plus they were wider and sort of chunkier looking.

>>50943715
I have that Carnifex, still unopened.

>>50957147
I miss that sprue so much...

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>>50957147
I remember a kid who tried to stick the entire contents of that sprue to a single assault marine. And almost succeeded.

>>50943795
what are these?

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>>50957250
Dreadnoughts

>>50957272
Oh god, they look like things from the dark age of technology, the 80's. They are way smoother and i'd love to see those remade with better detailing, but fuck, they don't "look and feel" 40k, at least not what 40k was become.

>>50957301
BLOOD BLOODSSON OF THE BLOOD CHAPTER OF BLOOD WIELDS THE BLOOD MACE

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>>50957301
I've seen this custom sculpt to scale them up to modern standards. That helps. But even at the time they were an odd contrast to the slab-sided vehicles the Imperium (and from that everyone else) got like the Land Raider and Rhino.

>>50957327
Now it looks even more dragon ball, it wouldn't be even slighty off if into a DB diorama

>>50957327
His marines have VERY spindly legs...

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>>50957344
They're just longer than is typical, more in proportion even, but about as thick as they ever were.

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Time for some more oldschool painting.

Here are some galleries of Bryan Ansell and John Blanche's old painted stuff, a lot of which was featured in advertisements and books.
thecitadelcollector.co
.uk/zen/
eldritchepistles.blogspot.co
.uk/2013/07/bryan-ansells-rogue-trader-space.
html
eldritchepistles.blogspot.co
.uk/2013/10/bryan-ansells-rogue-trader-space.
html

(I have no idea how to properly post these links without being considered spam.)

Say what you like about Space Marines today, but they were extremely characterful back then. Also, giant hand-painted banners need to become a thing again.

>>50957344
>>50957327
>>50957390
They're VERY narrow at the knee.....

>>50943780
Is it weird that, while I prefer the newer Tyranid models overall, I fucking adore classic Genestealers and consider them superior to the modern sculpts (though I think the Purestrain ones in Deathwatch Overkill are a close second)

>>50957397
Left shin, ye gods.

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>>50957531
Early plastic kits. What can you do?

Have a cool-ass diorama to make up for it.

>>50957570
That use of Epic miniatures in diorama... Great idea.

>>50957297
I need that genestealer hybrid.
>>50957272
I really dislike the look of old dreadnoughts. They look more clunky than the current ones.

>>50957217
>all those pink horrors.
>none of them are pink.

Wat?

>>50957235
I wish that the Eldar got some new vehicles with that old aesthetic desu.

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>>50957570
>What can you do?

>>50957775
CHAOS!

>>50957785
It sort of got transferred over to the revamped Dark Eldar, I think. The sails and hulls are pretty similar at least.

>>50957723
It'd probably only work in photos though.

>>50957941
I can kinda see that, yeah.

>>50957403
Not weird. A lot of the old monster sculpts are really characterful (although god knows, OP's carnifex is a common laughingstock). Personally I'm a huge fan of the early Genestealer Cult figures.

>>50947756
This right here- don't get me wrong, I like this topic, but seriously, I can browse the /tg/ catalog in like 10 seconds now because I see mostly just the same generals over and over.

>>50958934
Colin kinda looks like a chick in that photo.Also the knight mini is rad as heck.

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Dem Black Orcs

>>50959120
> Bob Olley

Man, I'm pretty bummed his website isn't trading anymore.

>>50958934

>Fig 1
>I WAAAAAAGH WITH HER!!!!

I knew the orcs supported Hillary!

>>50959228

>banner of hillary
>under the hand of george soros
>with bernie sanders face on the shield

It all makes sense now.

So how has Warhammer Fantasy fluff changed over the years? Stuff like the Fimir, Skaven being part of Chaos armies, or old models like Nagash and Neferata?

Hell, what was Warhammer 1st Edition like?

>>50959228
That's Thatcher ya git.

>>50959228
>>50959255

That's the daemon Thatcher.

>>50959273
>>50959275
> Thatcher on an Orc banner
> Orcs are the sworn enemies of Dwarfs
> Dwarfs are primarily miners and steelworkers

My god it makes perfect sense.

>>50950548
Yeah... that little figure holding the ball... I NEED that figure

>>50947756
>>50958377
I don't think this really has the feel fo a general, though -- it's just a successful thread that wasn't done when it went into autosage, and rolled over.

>>50959323
Oh great... I can't just buy that one figure...
http://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=8761

>>50959258
>So how has Warhammer Fantasy fluff changed over the years?
It got worse.

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>>50947756
>>50958377
Successful, interesting threads are cancer now....huh...thanks for pointing that out to us!

>>50959552
The Space Marine looks awesome and the greater daemon of Nurgle does what no other Nurgle mini could do and disgusts me.

>>50959541
I don't care for opinions, doc. I need facts. What did earlier editions of WHFB have that didn't survive the transition into later editions?

>>50959660
>he doesn't know???
Stick with the oldhammer, then, friend. Do not seek an answer to your question. You have been warned.

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>>50959660
1st edition: basically nothing was there as it was a generic fantasy wargame with a load of rpg elements.

2nd built up the setting, 3rd nailed it. From there on much like Rogue Trader it's basically been the same but for a few bits in detailing. The world was still created by the old ones, the ongoing battle against chaos was still a thing, all major playable factions were there and mostly we've just lost a lot of the minor ones in favour of expanding upon the major ones.

Thing just generally got more heroic and the more adult 'dark' and horror bits were increasingly glossed over as the audience was shifted to a younger base than originally intended.

A lot of what got dropped from the fluff, again much like Rogue Trader, wasn't explicitly deleted though. Things like Fimir are still technically there, as is the world at large. Though I think the Pygmies of Lustria are very gone, even from blood bowl and blood bowl even kept the Slann around in their more fresh and froggy form.

>>50959462
This. I (and others) just have a fuckton of images to dump and nothing better to do. And it's nice to look at the old stuff, laugh at the goofy models and enjoy the very visible love that was put into everything before it got all corporate.

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>>50959660
There were pygmy's

>>50959774
>the good old days before GW was taken over by Jews

Had a somewat kitbashed nurgle daemon prince not long ago.
Bought that basic nurgle daemon prince (with quite a few parts missing) from a boot sale. Added dragon wings, a mutated head from somewhere else, an obliterator shoulder and arm green stuffed to look like a big fleshy power first and a whole ton of other shit.
Easily the best conversion I'd ever done, and the model I'd had the most fun using against friend. He was a fucking powerhouse.
In his right hand he had a sword taken from a giant from some random non-citadel range, also bought at a boot sale.
GW employee wouldn't let me use it in the store.

>>50961032
I wonder if GW keeps all of the old studio armies.

>>50961032
>Oh no, you're gravely wounded
>Let me just put this giant fucking banner down and I'll see to you with my chainsword

>>50961139
Would be perfectly acceptable for a casualty collection point to be marked with a banner in 40k.

>that earlier comparison of 3rd ed and Bolt Action
>suddenly get the idea of homebrewing Bolter Action
For fuck's sake stop giving me ideas people.

>>50956063
>spesss crusade dredd

You ma nigga

>>50957324
Does Blood Bloodson know Wolf Wolfwolf from the wolf wolves wolfchapter?

>>50958868
Have I gone mad or have pauldrons actually gotten smaller over time?

>>50959298
>halflings are the incredibly overweight
>Elves are either hippies or some job where they can lord it over someone
>Humans are everyone else

It could be like shadowrun in 80s Britain, with much worse technology and actual punks instead of cyberpunks

>>50959900
People who work in games workshops tend to look down on customers for some reason. I think it's why my local one closed, the only guy working there made the place so unbearable to be in that people just either gave up the hobby or went to a different store

It's really bizzare having only one employee with no oversight

>>50961139
Isn't a nartheticum just a spike, a chainsaw and adderall?

>>50961385
No, I think the torsos have just gotten bigger
And maybe marines have grown necks

>>50947596
that's a seriously urban daemon at the back there

>>50947620
the early plastic nid warriors were a revelation at the time, but they snapped in half like constantly

fuck 'em

>>50955404
it had units, they just liked to showcase individual models in White Dwarf because it drove sales; they also had Golden Daemon every year

because it was all for print, big armies didn't really work - just closeups - and the pictures that survive and get posted online reflect that tendency

plus in the case of RT-era army lists... they were fucking fiendish to work with, the game still hadn't worked out if it was a tabletop skirmish or an RPG

>>50957397
>giant hand-painted banners need to become a thing again

they never really were

what would happen is guys who'd been to art school and worked for GW/Citadel would produce one, then it would get reprinted in WD and people would photocopy them, then paint the photocopy.

I mean, if you've never screamed "thin your paints" at someone, they *might* look OK to you, but they looked pretty fucking terrible at the time and we all knew it. A lot of reproduced images of them look better just because they're relatively low-resolution photos in a small magazine.

Life before computers were a huge deal.

>>50957820
it was milliput or DAS back in 1990, anon

you just didn't

>>50957724
had several, they were a bitch to paint

lots of fine details that got in the way of each other, and your hands can't stop shaking because of all the lead you've eaten

>>50964647
>tfw this is literally a necron

Is there a good place to read Rogue Trader (and possibly Gorkamorka/Necromunda) battle reports?

>>50943715
Scream carny best carny.

>>50964774
They turned into Necrons IIRC

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>>50956673

As far as I'm aware there isn't anything saying they aren't extinct.

Even if they did get brought back it'd be really hard to justify them being a faction unto themselves and not just part of the Imperial Guard. Only reason they were probably separate in the first place is because 40k was still basically Fantasy in space.

>>50947644

The advantage of things like Goblins (and Dwarves) is that they aren't human.

There's a lot less to "get wrong" as long as the details are nice.

Kev's gobbos are fantastic.

>>50957724
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40k-Genestealer-Hybrid-Rogue-Trader-Metal-Oop-Games-Workshop-89-/252694290903?hash=item3ad5c0e1d7:g:y1QAAOSw-0xYNxQ1

>>50959120
>>50959209
i've got that middle black orc. how much you figure i'd get for him on epay?

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You know, a lot of people say that the some of the old sculpts are terrible, but that just shows how little they know about casting. When looking at it from the perspective of a mold maker, some of these old miniatures are ingenious in what details they managed to capture, especially considering that they were the products of two-part rubber molds. Not to say that there aren't cases of ugly sculpts, it's just that we're spoiled nowadays on the level of detail we can have on our toys, while Citadel was pushing the boundaries of the craft back in their heyday. It's easy to say they're simple and crude compared to what we have these days.

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>>50959774

>Things like Fimir are still technically there

Fimir were more than technically there, they got rules in Monstrous Arcanum and models from FW.

>>50966117
They could always find a way to put them in.

Either a specialized IG unit/something akin to a mercenary unit.

Or fluff it out that the Squats managed to escape their doomed worlds and rename themselves the...I don't know, Void Clans or something.

Then again 40K is still kinda Fantasy in Space.

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>>50967933

I wouldn't mind if they were a part of the IG or possibly even if they were made into an ally codex, but I really can't see it being justified that they're abhumans, but somehow have a level of autonomy in the Imperium that no other abhumans have.

As for 40k being Fantasy in space, I think GW have deliberately tried to push back on that. There will likely never be space Skaven for example, the closest thing in 40k being the Hrud.

>>50968316
Yeah.

Early Hrud were indeed Skaven in Space, but then they were turned into Eldritch Abominations of xenos that can age you to death in nigh-instantaneous pace.

But then we have Eldar (Elves in space), Ogryn (Ogres in space), Ratlings (Halflings, AGAIN IN SPACE).

I don't see Squats being a problem here. I love Dwarfs, and Dwarfs in space are even better.

Problem is how they should be re-done. The original reason GW got the Squats removed was that they didn't know what to do with them at all. I could see them put in more inspiration from Nordic elements to make them stand out.

Also if most Squat homeworlds were nommed by Nids, then make the survivors who escaped the planets go full Eldar and have a cosmic murder-boner against the lizard bugs.

Hell I'd see them aid everyone who's fighting the Tyranids if that means they can avenge their destroyed homeworlds.

>Baal is hit by both Khornates and Nids
>The Blood Angels and their successors are fighting like crazy
>Dante and his Sanguinary Guards are in a pinch
>On one side there is a large group of Khorne Terminators, on the other three Trygons
>Shit's dire
>Suddenly Dante gets info that the Lamenters finally arrived, but with a whole lot of ships that look wholly different from Imperials
>Drop Pods are falling on the planet
>Multiple of them fall near Dante's location
>Lamenters appear from the mustard ones, but there are some unique ones that seem to be much more chunkier than standard ones
>Strange armored warriors come out of them the pods and join the Lamenters in the gunning of the Khornates and Nids
>Dante, the other BAs, and their successors can't believe that the ones who appeared with the Lamenters are Squats
>The Thane tells Dante that their demise was premature
>After they off all the Khornates and finally eradicate the Leviathan tendril, the Squats leave to hunt more Nids...

>>50943780
Man, I would love some modern puffy sleeves sculpts for scouts, as well as the indian eyeliner aesthetic. Scouts are so bland these days...

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>>50968449

The Hru'd entropy thus have some basis in the Skaven or all about destroying things and living in the remains.

Eldar are really only Fantasy Elves in appearance and some terminology, in many other ways the Craftworld, Dark, Exodite, Corsair, and Harlequin Eldar differ from High, Dark, and Wood Elves.

Ogryn are at least different from Ogres as they were presented in their army book, they don't seem to have as big a hang up about eating and are also possibly less intelligent.

>Also if most Squat homeworlds were nommed by Nids, then make the survivors who escaped the planets go full Eldar and have a cosmic murder-boner against the lizard bugs.

Problem is they can't since they're abhumans and thus should be under the control of the Imperium. It has been established for a while now that only the Mechanicus got something of a pass, every other human or abhuman that was discovered either bent the knee or was wiped out.

>>50968629
>Problem is they can't since they're abhumans and thus should be under the control of the Imperium. It has been established for a while now that only the Mechanicus got something of a pass, every other human or abhuman that was discovered either bent the knee or was wiped out.
you act like this would be a hard thing to retcon(Games Workshop has shown over the years that they'll retcon literally anything about either 40k or Fantasy/AoS if they feel a need to do so), just state that they get their comparative autonomy in the Imperium because much like the AdMech they were too well established to stomp without costing the Imperium way too much resources(plus most Squat worlds would only really be usable by Squats), but unlike the AdMech were perfectly willing to accept the Imperial Cult

also just fully retcon out their worlds getting eaten by the Tyranids(or at the very least have that only happen to a couple worlds, just enough to establish that the Squats have a grudge against the Tyranids)

>>50957488
CYboar ,,,,,! were there rules for these?

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Awesome! So my cousin who is 25 years older than me used to play GW stuff back in the early 90s when he saw on fb that I was into the hobby he dug out his old stuff and gave it to me for Christmas. He admits he didnt even try to get good at painting and one in particular he let his 5 year old son paint at the time. But I think you guys will like looking at these.

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>>50957488

In a way I kind of wish cyboars were still possible in the current lore, maybe a type of squig that looks extremely close to a boar.

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>>50968687
2/5
Im gonna strip the paint from those beakies but leave the funny poses because family and stuff, but gonna give them NL colors. What I'm going to do with all of this is keep it around to teach people how to play 40k using this "army" as a Csm army with cultists. These guardsmen im just going to prime in black and prolly leave as is. With my armies I actually play I have more than enough painting to do already.

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>>50968687
>>50968716
3/5 Just gonna leave the old termies minus being put on bigger bases, as is. but the newer ones are getting stripped and having some chaos bits added for "evil" that green red and blue one my 2nd cousin did when he was 5 its so bad (obviouy) im tempted to keep it that way but adding the chaos bits and then attempting to match the "scheme"

>>50968742

Good luck anon, stripping loads of stuff can seem arduous but I'm sure it will be worth it.

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>>50968687
>>50968716
>>50968742
4/5
The plague marines will just be painted up and the non beakie marines I switched some chaos bits onto b/c i have a massive dark angels army and these certain ones werent that old he had got them about 7 years ago on vacation because a gw store was across from his hotel amd he was bored one evening. When we came up with the idea of making them a teaching army he said that's what I should do. Again NL colors. Also I dont plan on the new player using all like 25 termies in one game (unless they want) but what else could I do with them. As for vehicles. Ill just let them use what ever dark angels tanks or bikes as well to give them more options. Im not going to be buying any of the csm codex books or suppliments. Although if I get a tablet ill download the pdfs. When teaching people since it's gonna be their first ever game there wouldnt be either of us using formations or anything complicated, just wysiwyg small games at like 1k points.

>>50959774
>tank gun is from a plastic X-wing fighter toy
Nice

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>>50968687
>>50968716
>>50968742
>>50968783
>>50968799
I just really love the game, and I feel if there was someone always available with 2 armies ready to teach it might get someone interested. I may end up leaving it at my local store so its ALWAYS available because the owner and regulars are more than trustworthy.

>>50956673
I was under the impression that the official line was "Squats are still dead. But there is a xenos race called the Demiurg that work for the Tau that fill the space dwarf niche"

>>50968699
>that one marine that shoots another marine in the dick with some sorta beam rifle

Man, what an asshole!

>>50945282
DESU whenever I buy an old model, and I get to actually hold it and examine it for the first time , it always seems way more detailed than I expected.

They had more sculptors left alone to sculpt miniatures all day everyday. Whereas now I guess it's more a part sculpting, part CAD team effort.

>>50968629
It can be altered like >>50968674 said.

Squats could be well established as a force to make it really hard for Imperials to take under control.

They could be treated in the same way as AdMech, but actually could integrate with the Imperium albeit with mixing the Imperial Cult with ancestor worship.

>>50968994
AND THEY STILL DIDN'T ANYTHING WITH THE DEMIURG.

All we got are sketches (albeit sweet sketches) and Demiurg ships for Tau Fleets for Battlefleet Gothic.

>>50969288
So all it took to be considered abhuman was that your breed of humanity was considered stable genetically? Like, Ogryns can only mate with other ogryns and give birth to more ogryns that more or less look the same as them?

>>50969315
Yep. And Squats seem to be very stable.

The only thing are their Living Ancestors who are very rare.

A Squat lives longer than a human, but Living Ancestors are those Squats who find out that they can live much, much longer. And they can be so old that they can out-age not-Dreadnought/not-Blood Angel Space Marines (except for High Marshal Ludoldus if what they say about him is true).

Also some Living Ancestors can develop Psychic Powers with age. Combine it with their centuries of wisdom and experience, along with the natural strong-willed stubbornness of Squats, you get a top-tier Psyker that can give most enemy Psykers a run for their money.

>>50968699
>In a way I kind of wish cyboars were still possible in the current lore
why aren't they now?
alien worlds are full of not![animal]s while the imperium seeded by itself numerous worlds with earth-derived fauna probably.
boars could have covered the same role the grox now does before this last one became more popular.

>>50967176
They were maybe less technically impressive, but I still prefer the old sculpts to the new stuff purely because they had a lot more imagination put into them.

Also because they were hand sculpted and not CAD, they have a bit more soul to them imo.

>>50969393
>Also because they were hand sculpted and not CAD, they have a bit more soul to them imo.

That the craftsman can't use the tool isn't the tool's fault.

>>50969421
not him, but the tools can alone change the quality of the result even if the hand behind is the same because with different tools come different techniques to obtain the same effects.

cases in point the differences between cad sculpted and hand sculpted textures like fur and organic shapes like muscles.

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>>50969654

The way they've shaded the muscles so starkly doesn't help but even in grey plastic these look ridiculous.

>>50943766
Those are some fucking awesome shields.

>>50968683
Yes.

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>>50970289
>>50968683

>>50969855
Gawd, that's hideous. What's that one boar model that's basically the same problem x1000?

>>50969855
Are minotaurs natty?

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>>50970471
This thing?

>>50969855
Every time I see these tumor-laden abominations I wonder who the fuck looked at them and signed off on it.

>>50970535
>>50969855
>The gift of Slaanesh is the gift of steroids

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>>50970641
People who were doing really strongly stylized art and though the same works when transferred into 3D.

It still happens in more old-school studios.
Viz. pic related and the absolutely horrendous muscle work on the guy on the right.

>>50969855
>>50970535
I'm sure there's someone out there who has painted these in a manner that doesn't look as hideous as the studio paint job.

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>>50970702

This is one way, airbrushing them and not picking out the individual muscles as much

>>50968994
They put in some fluff about abhumans - felinids squats and a few others - in the 7th edition brb

Where are some good places to read Rogue Trader battle reports?

>>50970694
Sure, but (despite his retarded feet) Ryu doesn't have completely deformed legs, they still have some taper toward the ankle, roughly leglike proportions and such. These motherfuckers >>50969855 >>50970910 have the cankles of landwhales.

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>>50943715

What's /oldhammer/ on 30k/the Horus Heresy

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>>50973728
...wut?

>>50947596
I'd say the older chaos models lived up to their imagery better than the current ones which are all very same-y.

I mean just look at book and sword guy, or glam punk amazon in your pic

>>50973776
What part of my question is confused.

If you don't know what 30k/the Horus Heresy here you go https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Horus-Heresy

If you are sad that Orks aren't in 30k/the Horus Heresy here you go https://youtu.be/cW3oMF4OvI4

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>>50968742

>that keyboard

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>>50973958
The entire phrasing of it. I have no idea what you're trying to ask.

>>50973728
It's centred on cringeworthy book series that are everything wrong with modern 40k turned up to eleven.

People behind it have flat, boring ideas, it concentrates on MUH IMPORTANT setting characters, that are written in a way that, instead of great leaders, portrays them as autistic manchildren. Rules have the very same problems all 40k does- so severe ones.

It's nice one can get beakies/Thousand Sons marines if interested, but if you are not a marinefag, it's another "Fuck you and your army, marines at least sell", whlist it also rapes, brutally rapes the setting with retcons to acomodate that all primarch/chaos/perpetuals wank.


It kills more Oldhammer in Warhammer with every bit of 40k it develops.

Kill it with fire. And fuck it's fans with flaming red poker.

>>50974070
I agree, what he said makes no sense.

Ollanius Pius was a regular human soldier. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.

>>50969855
And who sculpted them?

>>50970535
Fucking terrible, And who sculpted this?

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>>50974114
I am ok with him being both that and a terminator at the same time because the Horus Heresy's fine details of the final conflict should remain somewhat mythological (since it's just a big myth rip-off anyway).

>>50974216
>mythological

This is why the entire HH thing was a massive mistake. They have ruined the Heresy by going into every single possible aspect of it in excruciating detail.

It was much more interesting as a legend from a different age.

>>50957327
This thing actually looks like it could fit in with imperial knights. That's kinda cool to imagine the connection between the bigger walkers and the old dread design.

Anyone have any Squat art? I got some of the Mantic Not!Squats and I need some inspiration.

>>50974114
Ollanius Pius was originally an in-universe legend with no evidence to support his existence, then a Terminator, then a Custodes, and now an immortal human soldier who's been alive since the time of Jason and the Argonauts. He has never, ever been a regular human soldier.

>>50974441
Think the Time of Legends stuff for WHFB did the same thing? Or did it avoid going into EVERY detail?

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>>50974793

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>>50974793

>>50957301
isn't the contemptor meant to do this? look like a throwback to oldhammer?

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>>50977062
That's sort of a throwback but not to 40k, rather it's the design that was made for the original Epic game, which was set during the Horus heresy.

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>>50969381

Just kind of got the impression that if GW did anything low technology for Orks that it would involve Squigs in some way since they're part of the package. On the other hand they created new models of Orcs riding boars for AoS, so maybe it isn't impossible.

>>50969654

That isn't soul though, that's certain aspect of a model being better due to the technique. Soul is a meaningless buzzword criticism.

>>50971483

Street Fighter models have big hands and feet for visual purposes while playing.

>>50974085

>portrays them as autistic manchildren

They were always that, guess you never read the Alpha Legion Index Astartes article where Alpharius' whole problem is that a few other Primarchs talk shit about the way he conducts war.

>>50974085
fuuuuuuucking this. they're going after the "historicals" end of the fantasy/sci fi nerd crowd (the same people who shit their pants over a new variety of stormtrooper armor in star wars) and those people are lacking in imagination/generally fucking pedantic and insufferable

>>50979083
You are just driving the point home. "achchually, you must have missed this bit of fucking minutiae in some article that talks about blah blah blah" fuck off

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>>50979183

Index Astartes is relevant because it was written at a time when people who were behind the older editions of 40k still worked for GW.

Face it, this whole thing about the Primarchs being some kind of ubermensch is just a lie /tg/ likes to tell itself. I imagine this also goes for some of the older editions of 40k and Fantasy where the people who created the games implemented or okayed some of the changes that took place and which are supposedly bad.

Priestly is a good example of this, if you've looked at Antares at all he completely dropped the idea of a setting that doesn't go beyond a certain point, Antares is supposed to evolve via player input.

>>50981690
too bad antares is mostly bland shite though, the ghar look interesting the rest? meh.

>>50975228
I read the Sundering series and it was pretty good. It made Malekith into a more 'nuanced' character and gave the major players in the conflict a little more meat on their bones. The good thing about the Malekith sundering book(s) was that it was quite clear that Malekith always was kind of a dick, which made his transition into the Witch King more believeable. The mistake a lot of the HH books make is that they try to make the traitor characters too sympathetic at times which can make their 'turn' very jarring.

I read end-times Khaine after that and that was a pretty cool transition. Aside from some of the stupid stuff in that book, the Malekith character pieces were quite well done.

His hope/anticipation of being pretty and whole again when he paces through the fire for the 2nd time and the consequent dissapointment when it doesn't happen was cool. He uses a glamour for the rest of the book to sell the whole: I'm a glorious Phoenix King now. But deep inside he is really dissapointed that he has to use tricks like that.

Best edition was 2nd edition

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>>50984993
I survived 2nd edition.

It was not the best.

Saying that though 40k has never been 'good' in terms of rules system, Priestly has been recycling the same guff since he started and by the look of it considers 3rd edition 40k the pinnacle of his work and not bland as fuck then becoming overly bloated with special rules dumpsterfire that it is.

RT was at least as much of clusterfuck in system as it was in everything else, which adds a lot of charm in it's own way.

>>50985814
I remember second edition but I was too young to appreciate it.

What would you say the gameplay was like? I remember tons upon tons of charts and tables for things such as psycho and vortext grenades going off. I've heard as well that it was pretty much HeroHammer. You could get the bare minimum layout for an army, dump the rest of your points on your commander then mop up the board with your indestructable shredding machine leader.

Almost everyone then had marines, so little changed there. Can you remember any tier lists for the armies? I enjoyed playing nids and was over the moon when they finally got their own codex. Just wondering how it all turned out.

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>>50985948
>What would you say the gameplay was like?

In a word: Chunky.
In more words: Lots of options, lots of tweaks, lots of customisation. Lots of annoying details. Lots of modifiers. Lots of charts to check through. Lots of long close combat sections because they decided late in the Rogue Trader era to switch to a system that chugged along with individual combats instead of unit-wide ones.

It was herohammer to a degree but with the addendum of a large number of non-character stuff being also (potentially) brokenly good, especially if if you equipped it to be. The gameplay required either risky aggressive tactics to close the gap quickly or a lot of use of cover and overwatch fire because most things would not be getting much of a useful save, even power armour was just a 4+ save against most basic armaments like lasguns or bolters. Strong characters could be ganged up on by mooks or countered with wargear like vortex or stasis grenades, though invulnerable saves stacked on top of normal saves. But pretty much every heavy weapon did multiple wounds per hit which made it reasonably possible to kill off stronger stuff with shooting.

Which was a hell of a lot better than with Warhammer of the same era.

>>50974085
In fairness, it is possible--and I have--to completely ignore the BL books and go entirely off the FW black books. Agreed on the rules, which is most frustrating because I'd say over 95% of the problems in the 30k system are simple editing errors and lack of clarity they're too retarded to fix.

I'm really just waiting for Adeptus Titanicus. Which has been delayed to "possibly before end of year."

>>50985948
>Can you remember any tier lists for the armies?

Top Tier
Marine
Chaos
Anyone who can take Inquisitor Lord character as an ally

Mid
Orks
Eldar

Low
Tyranid.

Characters matter, and a Hive Tyrant just couldn't compete against a Space Marine Captain in Terminator Armour with a powerfist, combat drugs and a Displacer Field

>>50986745
Black library is releasing some Titan themed books in March so a lot of people think that is the month it releases.

>>50987022
>Mid
>Orks
I better hop in my time machine now! Mid tier is better than shit tier.

>>50981690
>When shit was hitting the fan, the people behind orginal Warhammers still were in Gee Dubs.

It does not matter who fucked up. Even if authors are the same, primarch wank is not part orginal 40k we discuss here. It activly removes every bit of Oldhammer lore it touches and is absolutely aganist it's spirit, both game- and storywise. And it also sucks dick, even as separate project.

If Alessio or Rick "Buy Antares pls" or whoever was involved, it only puts them among culprits, scutling the ship whlist they were already writing their resumes for other publishers.

>>50975228
They are mixed bag, I heard that Sigmar parts suck dick. But the RAPE of the overall 8th ed. fluff and end times covered it up to the point of irrelevance.

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>>50970351
I actually made these for 40k recently!

>>50987446
>It does not matter who fucked up.
This tbqh. If Bryan Ansell and Jesus Christ joined forces to ruin 40k, it would still be shit. I don't care. What I care about is the good, loose, fun early material itself (including the sculpts, I'm one of the sickos who think the early figures have much more character and are more fun), not who screwed the pooch and why.

>>50988810
> The green flocked bases

It hurts so good

>>50989052
It honestly looks better on the tabletop then any other basing I've done, sand city mud snow, you name it
It's just so nice

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>>50947596
I love this mini. He's so hyped.

>>50977465
I'm disappointed I never got to play epic
I just feel like everything was so much grander. A big terrain board counted for much more. You had a much bigger army for so much less money.

If you have any more epic scale photos, do post my friend

>>50989840
Even if Epic returns (hopefully soon), Warmaster will not.

<Cries>

Anyone knows where to get not-Warmaster? I just bought little Undead in my asorted stuff.

>>50990686
10mm Fantasy models are available from a few places. Pendraken and Magister Militum immediately spring to mind.

>>50988810
You are doing Gork and Mork's work, Anon.

>>50975228
Time of Legends was really good at times, especially the ones about the war of Vengeance.

>>50969188
That's a shuriken catapult that marine is shooting the other marine with.

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Open day exclusive swag!

>>50943795
I like these a lot. Are they old Dreadnoughts?

>>50991190
NUH
I want that reprint bad, I wish they'd just fucking sell it through their regular webstore already. How's the interior quality, anon?

>>50987121
orks had the best transport vehicles

Other transport vehicles could carry a fixed number of troops.

Ork Battlewagon rules: Pile all the mini's on top, any that fall off when moving battlewagon fall out and take damage

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>>50991190
AAAAAAAAHH man I want that so bad.

"We'll eventully sell them somewhere sometime throughout the year"

Fuck them so much.

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>>50991190
Btw, how much did it cost you? Very interested in this. (Just the book, not the mug)

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>>50989840

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>>50982382

I don't mind them making the Traitor Primarchs somewhat sympathetic since it then makes their fall tragic or at least gives a believable reason for why they turned. For example, part of or the major reason for Lorgar's turning being that felt humanity needed gods and that without Chaos it would eventually be wiped out by the numerous xeno species out there. Or Motarion being less about not getting to kill his step dad and more seeing the Emperor as no better than him.

>>50986745

>In fairness, it is possible--and I have--to completely ignore the BL books and go entirely off the FW black books.

BL and FW are the same thing looked out from different angles, I don't know why people try and pretend they're like two separate versions of the Heresy. In the most important matters BL will probably come out on top since they came first.

As for Titanicus, it was supposed to come out in February, but for one reason or another has been pushed to possibly before the end of the year, if not after.

>>50987446

If you simply have a preference for the older version of 40k than that is fine and I can respect that. I suppose I was more talking to the people who think those originally involved did nothing wrong at all and their beautiful vision was somehow corrupted by the people who came after.

>>50991190

Hopefully if the various Index books sell well they'll think of making this widely available. Looking over the Imperialis book last night and it in good portions simply seems to be straight out of Rogue Trader, even with charts for generating wargear and such.

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Squats really found their niche in 6mm in a way they never really did in 28mm.

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>>50991190
inside quality is super good. Very crisp and clean. Ill post a few more pics but the lighting is here is terribad.
>>50991623
book was £35

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>>50991801
excuse the crappy carpet.

>>50991772

I miss epic mane

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>>50991857

>>50945282
I think that they generally look better than new ones
Sure, you may just show me some overpriced piece of shit and tell me how well it's design is, but old design always have that strange appeal to them, idk how to call it

>>50991801
>>50991857
>>50991884
>preposterous crispiness
>hardcover
>sold only through fagberg events
FFFFFAAAAWWWWWKKKK

>>50959049
>magnus the pious
>not the red
oh god the feels are real

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I'm going to dump some old Tyranid stuff.

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>>50992143
back when the Exocrine and Haruspex were cool.

>>50991590

Yeah they go full retard with some of their decisions sometimes, it makes me laugh when they try and pretend Space Hulk 2016 is sold out via the website yet when I've walked in 5 different GW stores across the country it's been sat on the shelves in everyone, maybe if they hadn't Jewed people in 2014 so badly when people actually wanted it they wouldn't be struggling to shift it now.

>>50991915
A lot of the old models look ugly but they are really charming.

>>50991884
Who do I have to purge to get a copy of one? I wish I live in England now.

>>50992240
I don't understand why they don't just sell their products based on the actual merit of the product like a normal company and instead play retarded artificial scarcity games.

>>50991527
I heard about that. I wish it were still like that!

>>50973979
Yeah, I'm the owner. I work at fedex and the last two months have been insane hours. Rest assured it's clean now. If I was home I'd even take a pic for ya

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Remember to paint your tyranids like this.

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>>50993808

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>>50993866

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>>50993890

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>>50993961

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>>50993890
> 'H.R. who? Never heard of 'im.'

>>50993982
Gaunts are the best Tyranid models (also GSC)

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>>50994057
You know what the codex scans are higher quality than the WD ones so here are more gaunts.

>>50943715

Is that Index Imperialis book just a compendium of all the Rogue Trader rules for Imperial forces? I've flipped through it today and it seemed pretty neat.

>>50994117
It's a compilation of some bits of rogue trader as well as early WD articles and stuff like that.

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Remember when a Carnifex was a nightmarish death machine?

>>50993594
It resulted in people modeling Trukks as ice cream buckets with wheels.

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>>50992159

Honestly I think the newer versions lookbetter, older ones look like they were made with being weapon platforms or vehicles in mind and not living creatures.

>>50992240

Maybe it actually is sold out via the website? From what I gather the way it works is that stores get a certain allotment of product. GW I'm guessing just doesn't have a system in place or doesn't view it has worth it to always track which store might still have something and stock and tell them to send it back. They do eventually ask for certain things to be returned after a point if they're still on the shelves, I know my local GW has shelves behind the counter which exist to point out that the product is going to be returned and so they should buy it if they want it. This was actually a good way to pick up Fantasy models that GW discontinued.

My local GW also had the 2014 version of Space Hulk too, again I guess they never got around to asking for it to be returned.

>>50994117

It's bit and pieces about various Imperial things. There are some rules like generating wargear and I think even stats, but you'd need an actual copy of Rogue Trader.

>>50993594
Fun is not allowed anymore.

>>50993594
These days it would result in an epidemic of modelling-for-advantage.

I wouldn't be surprised if it did back in the day.

>>50994530
The Chaos Spawn looks so dumb yet good.

>>50994091
Someone needs to feed GW the idea of making a hive fleet Behemoth throwback codex where all the units are modified to give the feel and look of 2E tyranids. That also means they can sell 2 books for the same army.

>>50994530
Sold out via website? I can still order it fine. Am I missing something?

>>50994877
I like that it is stilled armoured and that its head is a mushroom.

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>>50994573
>>50994463

I never saw that happen back in the day, I expect some people might have but those people didn't exactly get many games, because they were obviously cunts.

People still need to be reminded to not play against cunts from time to time.

Old Epic looks fantastic.
Is there a way to play it online? Any pdfs going around?

Not asking for contact info but where THE FUCK can i find 40k/30k epic model recasts. I see people playing huge tourneys with epic fellblades and no sauce on them

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>>50994877

The head is funny and it evokes the pictures of Spawn being random shit put together.

>>50994962

I was going off what that Anon said about it being sold out and offering reasons why something may be sold out on the website and yet still available in a store.

>>50995968

I vaguely recall there was some forum and you had to be in good standing or something to prove that you weren't working for GW or something like that. Alternative is that FW is supposed expand Titanicus into being Epic.

>>50996057
The only forum I found was in french and fuck that noise

>>50943715
will there be another thread?

>>50943715
is there an archive of the previous threads somewhere?

>>50991720
someday I'll own some space slann

>>50991748
this is a so much better scale for warhammer 40k battles than the actual 40k scale.

>>50995968
Tactical Command is the forum where the garagecaster lurks.

There's also decent third-party stuff like Onslaught miniatures and Defeat in Detail.

>>50998158
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/oldhammer/

we're going to need a new thread soon

>>51001679
>Warlock of Firetop Mountain

Those were the days.

>>51002108
I still have my original copy, going to introduce my son to them when he's a little older

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>>50998023
Eh sure why not.

>>51002533
So, are you gonna make it?

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>>51003128
When we hit bump limit, sure

>>51002124
May I also recommend the Zagor Chronicles

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>there's only 1 blip in this room, one marine with a bolter can easily
>Chaos Dreadnought

fffffffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU

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>>50993808
>>50993866
Best warriors coming through. Having said that, I remember my pre-teen self having fucking conniptions about assembling these motherfuckers and keeping them in one piece. My metal Carnifex was basically held together by it's own weight in glue too.

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>>51003440
>Have weeks of allowance saved
>Go to GW with the intention of buying a carnifex
>Old one eye is only a few quid more
>Gluing on metal arms at an almost 90 degree angle, both of which have massive claw at the end
>Them arms man
>THEM ARMS

>>51003931
Pinning, brah.

Also wasn't Old One Eye famously shit in-game?

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>>51003931
And on a similar note; this fucker
>Every single joint is tiny
>Wings didn't quite fit their weird joint
>The massive wings and the torso rest on one small foot
Would it have killed them to put both feet on the ground?

>>51003951
>Also wasn't Old One Eye famously shit in-game?

Actually I might be thinking about later editions.

>>51003931
What is old one eye?

>>51003931
>Have weeks of pocket money
>Live on an island with no GW
>Hand over pocket money to mum.
>Ask her to phone up these people, order a Lictor, show her the code for it
>Mum rings up, after a minute of not knowing what she's doing, hands me the phone
>Super fucking excited eleven year old kid me talking to GW employee over the phone
>Explain I'd like a Lictor
>He starts asking about my Tyranid army
>He starts tell me about his
>We talk about painting and how I like making terrain out of cans and things
>Half an hour later, hand phone back over to mum, so she can do credit card stuff
>Guy on the phone asks to talk to me again
>Spend another fifteen minutes talking about how fucking awesome everything is