/srg/ - Shadowrun General

>the bigger your car is, the more damage you take when you ram something with it
That seems......odd, to say the least.

What tactics does one employ to make a getway in a large, heavily armored Speed 2, Acceleration 2, Handling 2 vehicle? Asking for a fri-PFFFFFFFT HAHAHA oh wow I almost said that with a straight face.

>>50830466
liberal use of decoys

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What are some circumstances where a toxic spirit would not only be convenient but also be your bro?

I am thinking anything involving bug spirits or colonization of untapped wilderness. Any others?

>>50830630
>bug spirits
Yes.
>colonization of untapped wilderness
Nope. You can't harvest the riches of pristine wilderness if you go and poison it all first.

>>50830630
Are you referring to toxic spirits in general, or like mentor spirit type thing?

>>50830671
In general. Someone you might meet along the way who proves to be an ally.

>>50830607
Given that we don't have a rigger (sad, I know), what options do I have for decoys other than "multiple vehicles driving off in different directions"?

>>50830684
>In general
that's unlikely. Toxic spirits are messed up, man. IF you are a toxic shaman, you might have an affable relation to the angry angry spirits you summon, but the spirits might hate you just as much as the world that wronged them.

>>50830714
see, I figure you can just be a huge polluting scumbag and they'd be OK with you

>>50830714
>but the spirits might hate you just as much as the world that wronged them.
Woah woah, back up for a sec. I was unaware that the toxic spirits were "wronged"......how did that come to be?

>>50830753
"wronged" might be the wrong word to use. Toxic spirits are corrupted and twisted versions of regular spirits. The desecration, pollution, despoiling, etc. of the world turns them into warped and angry spirits.

>>50830790
see, I feel like some of them might love it. Like palpatine.

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I need /srg/'s professional opinion:

http://pastebin.com/wzJ1L9GP

Big hulking Giant that swings a combat axe. Am I correct in believing that she'd benefit more from a Synaptic Booster 3 than a Muscle Augmentation 4? More attacks is generally more favorable than stronger attacks right?

>>50830790
Oh, so they were just "born" angry.

>>50830796
Oh yeah, definitely. If you're a toxic mage, you summon toxic spirits. you are also insane, paranoid, and asocial. The toxic spirits doesn't necessarily like or dislike you anymore than the rest of metahumanity.
>>50830822
Pretty much.

>>50830849
Well, I still might make hexxus a character my players run into.
Chill toxic spirit who totally isn't going to kill them at all. Now help me destroy these pristine wildlands.

>>50830204
>If the acting vehicle hits the target vehicle in any direction other than head on, the acting vehicle resists only half the damage (round up).

>>50830883
Yeah, but damage dice is still directly proportionate to the car's Body score. And I'm actually kind of okay with that for damage to the car, it just seems weird when we're talking about damage to the driver and passengers.

>>50830876
Sure, it's your game. Still though, dealing with toxic spirits are a bad idea, one that no sane mage should ever consent to.

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>>50830701
Explosions or (better) multiple Alarms going off at other places

Maybe hire a go-Gang to make some Action when you Need to get away.

>>50830819
If you go Muscle Augmentation 4 can you still get Synaptic Booster 2? because I don,t think off the top of my head that the difference between booster 2 and 3 is going to get you another action, it should be on average 4.5 initiative not even enough for an extra parry.

>>50830911
>damage dice
Damage Value.

RAM
(SHORT RANGE ONLY, ANY SPEED)
The acting vehicle attempts to collide with a target vehicle. Make a Vehicle Skill + Reaction [Handling] (terrain) Opposed Test.
If the ramming vehicle achieves more hits, the vehicles have collided. The base Damage Value of the attack is determined by the ramming vehicle’s Body and Speed, as noted on the Ramming Damage Table, plus any net hits achieved.
From behind, the ramming damage is calculated by Speed difference between the vehicles.
From the side, use the Speed of the acting vehicle, and from the front, add the Speed of the acting and targeted vehicles.
If the acting vehicle hits the target vehicle in any direction other than head on, the acting vehicle resists only half the damage (round up).
If the acting vehicle hits the target head on, the acting vehicle takes full damage.

>>50830819
Get Booster 2 and 3 Levels of Muscleshit instead.

>>50830941
And since a ram is a crash, as noted 2 pages earlier, the driver and passengers are still rolling against damage too.

>>50830941
>Attacks must specifically target either the passengers (in which case, the vehicle is unaffected) or the vehicle itself (in which case, the passengers are not affected).
>The exceptions to this rule are ramming, suppressive fire, and area-effect weapon attacks like grenades and rockets—these attacks affect both passengers and vehicles.

>If the attack’s modified DV is less than the vehicle’s modified Armor, no damage is applied.

>>50830919
well, it's not the mage who's going to be dealing with them.
It's the street sam and face. And the spirit is going to be ever so helpful.

>>50830997
>If the attack’s modified DV is less than the vehicle’s modified Armor, no damage is applied.
Waaaaaaiiiiit a minute. I missed that detail. So, if I don't go TOO fast while ramming and armor the fuck up, I don't have to worry about damage on my end at all? Sweet.

>>50831043
I would suggest having a back up plan in case the player's notice the sign saying obvious trap over this encounter.

>>50831095
Yeah, that's a good idea, it's a bit obvious.
It's not a trap for THEM, but it's still totally a trap.

>>50831103
>>50831095
>>50831043
>>50830919
>>50830876
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5EmpGOKB4A

I just don't see this ending well for anyone other than the toxic spirit.

>>50831197
It may end kind of sort of OK for the players.
They'll get a strong contact and money out of it in exchange for several enemies and also having committed a minor scale atrocity.

>>50830925
If I can figure out which way the security is coming, I can probably set it up so that the explosives go off right as their cars drive over them. Or rather, the explosives expert can.

>>50831215
Anyone finds out they've dealt with a toxic spirit, there's going to be serious consequences. Like notoriety and bounty shit.

>>50831273
several enemies!

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>>50831215
>several enemies and also having committed a minor scale atrocity.

>>50831285
Oh come now, it's not so unusual to have a bit of fallout after a run.
It's entirely normal to lay low for a while to avoid the heat.

Trying to make a Troll Face.
What's a good sum-to-10 for them?

>>50830790
Why, though?
Nature has smog.
Nature has nuclear reactors.
Nature has pollution in abundance.
Why does Shadowrun hate the beauty of pollution so much?

>>50831389
Because they do not know the joy of playing a captain planet villain.
It is the most amazing feeling.
I still want to play a guy who has allergy (clean air)

>>50831344
E Attributes, C Nuyen, A Metatype, D Adept, B Skills.

>>50831405
>allergy (clean air)
How does that work exactly?

>>50831432
You have a gasmask and tank full of industrial pollutants and hopefully a GM that allows you a lenient interperetation of poison immunity.

>>50831450
Yeah, but how can one be allergic to clean air?

>>50831450
>lenient interperetation of poison immunity
Just take the anti-pollution options. 1 quality, 1 geneware.

>>50831464
Magic man, magic.

>>50831464
allergies are a hell of a thing biologically.
It is theoretically feasible that if you move from an environment of high pollution to one without any you may suffer some kind of response.

I am talking out of my ass, but it is similar to real medical knowledge and is good enough for shadowrun.

>>50831515
Where are those, if you don't mind me asking?

>>50831529
I don't think would really be an allergy because if he's so used to toxins and denser air and shit like that, yeah he's going to feel sick when he makes the transition to clean air, but with some time he can get over it. Though, maybe because he is a Shadowrunner he just doesn't have the time to adjust when he can afford to be off the top of his game.

>>50831540
Chrome Flesh, Run & Gun.

>>50831540
Chrome Flesh.

>>50831610
Getting used to it will require karma to buy off the allergy trait. Done and done?

>>50831634
>>50831633
sweet.

>>50831638
Sounds workable.

Is there any reason for a mage not to deck themselves out in some serious armor?

>>50831743
Well, same armour rules as applies to everyone else. If you're going in guns blazing, get as much as you can. If you're being low-key, civilian outfits or auctioneer suits are the way.

What is the worst quality and why is it Pacifist?

Newbie here again.

If I have enemy levitated and cast elemental wall [fire]. Can I move him into the wall for damage? Can I move him in and out to damage him multiple time in the same combat turn?

What does communist magic look like?

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As I understand it, plenty of groups outsource their decker needs to an NPC. Tell me about yours.

>>50830152

Hey guys, looking to play my first shadowrun game right now, I'm looking at running some variety of Nartaki Street Sami, any advice?

>>50832330
>some variety of Nartaki Street Sam
>advice
Extra arms are mostly useless.

>>50832542

Sure, but I like the fluff it allows on my character. I'm not looking to go too hardcore on power-building, just enough to make sure my street sami is capable. It's just a refluffed human more or less, isn't it?

>>50831977
>Pacifist
>not best

Is it okay to just jot down the obligatory fixer as a 6 connection 1 loyalty free contact? Or will GMs frown on me doing it pre-emptively?

>>50832627
Fixers, Smugglers, and Street Docs are contacts that every runner should have. If anything your GM should applaud your forethought.

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So I've got a brilliant plan to rob a casino, but it's got a big flaw in it. Well, 2 actually.

The plan starts with investigative legwork and that shit being carried out by the rest of my party while my street sam "acquires" a Conestoga Trailblazer and a trailer, then armors the fuck out of both of them while enhancing the Trailblazer's Speed, Handling and Acceleration by 1.

When the time comes for the heist itself, the decker shall casually stroll into the casino as a customer while we all start putting on SWAT gear. I get into the driver's seat of the Trailblazer while the rest of the team gets in the trailer. Once the decker is done doing decker stuff, he will head to the bathroom and do something that triggers a civilian evacuation. Once the civvies are all out and it's just security in there, the decker will give me the signal and I shall put pedal to the metal. I shall punch through a wall, squash anything and anyone unfortunate enough to cross my path and then punch a hole out the opposite wall, stopping when the back end of the trailer is just outside of the building. The rest of the team pops out the back and kills any remaining security.

Now here's the first problem: based on previous experience, the vault is going to be in the basement, only accessible by elevator, and protected from hacking by a faraday cage. There's going to be guards down there, and even if they don't hear the noise above, there's going to be a firefight waiting for us, and the decker isn't going to be able to hack stuff ahead of time. The elevator is also going to slow down our loading time.

The other problem is, well, that there's going to be a twist, and I don't think I've twist-proofed this plan.

>>50832597
Cultural Characteristics: Nartaki do not have a separate culture per se, but Hindu culture honors them. When nartaki frst appeared during the SURGE cycle of 2061, they were considered touched by the deity Shiva. Most have entered into a form of Hindu priesthood and seek to live a simple and unrestricted lifestyle.

>Latest World News: A mana pulse flowing through the Ganges, similar to the one seen during the Year of the Comet, occurred during Holi celebrations and instantly boosted the nartaki population, swelling their numbers by an estimated fve hundred individuals. Exact numbers couldn’t be gathered since the event caused quite a stir and panic. The event had a very unique twist: All of the new nartaki are female.

>>50832627
You want a higher loyalty if you can afford it. If you can't, spend your downtime interacting with him/her if possible to earn some loyalty. If that's off the table, work on consistently completing runs they give you, even the ones you don't like.

I'm relatively new to Shadowrun and I'm playing a human hermetic mage. On my team we only have a face and an infiltrator-type with an agent, so I took several combat spells. Are there any glaring flaws/bases not covered?

Ball Lightning, Combat Sense, Control Actions, Flamethrower, Heal, Increase Agility & Reflexes, Levitate, Manaball, Manabolt, Mass Confusion, Stunbolt.

>>50832863

Yeah, that's what I'm into. It's a pretty homebrewed setting, so I'm looking to have my character have basically been shuttled straight into the military from a young age, then basically become a pretty, pretty trophy, not allowed to do anything. Then he leaves, and becomes a not-shadowrunner in not-europe. Should be neat.

Does melee oriented stuff actually work? What do I need to do to make it work in a world with, y'know, guns? What kind of augments should I focus on getting at start?

>>50833083
>What kind of augments should I focus on getting at start?

Things to improve your melee (strength and agility augments) and things to defend against bullets (bone lacing for toughness and maybe pain editor type things).

>>50833083
If you want to survive you really need to be good with guns. Having melee as a secondary focus works fine and is badass, but your katana won't deflect bullets.

>>50833298

so a dermal lacing deal would work too, yeah? Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for that stuff.

>>50833330

Or maybe I'll listen to this guy, if I want to be boring. Guns are never as interesting as fighting with swords in a world full of guns. Stop being uncreative and look for ways to make the fun options work.

>>50833430
Confirmed for not understanding funs.

>>50832962
Does anybody have any input on this?

>>50833462

look, you might have fun with guns, but when I look at a world like this, I want to use a fucking sword, and that's what I'm looking to do.

Besides, only a coward gives up on a character concept because it's more dangerous.

I mean, I will have gun skill, because a street sami who can't shoot is worthless in atleast 1/4 of situations, but I'm gonna get my move speed up and become a fucking blender.

>>50833430
>Stop being uncreative and look for ways to make the fun options work.

Alright, fine. It'll need to be a specialized build. Be a Troll with high body. Wear good armor, dermal lacing like you said, and cyber limbs with armor enhancements. Fuckhueg defense dice pool.

Also put strength enhancements on the cyber limbs. Probably use a katana because accuracy. All I can think of right now.

>>50833876

Are Katanas really that much more accurate? That's weird, but I guess it explains the stereotype...

Can other people use your alchemy preparations?

>>50833940
It's literally objectively the best sword.

>>50833980

So what you're saying is weebs made this game?

>>50833992
One of the core "classes" has samurai in its name. The main currency is called nuYEN. Omae is one of its slang terms. What do you think?

>>50831980
Why bother when you can just drop them from tremendous height?

>>50834046
I think you both have a critical misunderstanding of the game's origins and lore.

>>50834263

then explain

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>>50834263
You for real or just assmad?

>>50830630
Enemies a toxic spirit would aid you in defeating.
Different Toxic Spirit
Bug Spirit
Shedim
Cyber Zombies
Mr. Clean

And with most of those the alliance would only last as long as the enemy existed. After its defeated the foes it will go back to either corrupting or killing the party.

>>50834263
Could you tell me why or something?

>>50834423
You forgot
Captain Planet

>>50834254
More option is fun?

On the related note... Can I use spirit's movement power on the enemy I levitate? Turning that 6m/combat turn movement into 36m?

>>50834520
Only Captain Pollution has the power to stop Captain Planet.
And you need the rings of destruction to summon him.
Also if you know a toxic spirits true name they HAVE to obey you regardless of nature.

>>50831431
My trogga.

>>50831464
There are people allergic to WATER.

>>50834510
Not him, but SR setting is heavily influenced by Gibson works (right down to slang and terms). Probably shameless ripoff is a better term. And Gibson has new yen, japanese megas with pet ninjas, razorgirls and matrix.

>>50834727
So Gibson is a weeb.

>>50834312
>>50834344
see
>>50834727
Gibson's works are an underpinning to cyberpunk, and what was directly referenced when creating Shadowrun.
Do some research on cyberpunk, it helps for you to understand the setting, theme and mood.

>>50834727

>new yen
>nuyen

WE RESEMBLE BUT ARE LEGALLY DISTINCT...

>>50834737
No he was referencing the resurgent postwar japan of the time, which wielded huge economic influence. I don't think he was trying present this as a positive thing, just what he saw as a natural evolution of society at the time.

>>50833544
A fuckton of redundant spells. Ball lightning and Stunbolt are good, other damage spells are not necessery at all. Use weapons if you want to do damage. Fling+grenades and throwing knives combo works too.
Get more debuffs and control spells like Opium den, Influence, Ice Sheet, Trid Phantasm.
Improved Invisibility and Fashion are awesome and you really should consider 'em too.

>>50834737
No. You have to remember it was early-mid 80s. Japan haven't yet fallen into recession and was at the peak of the japanese economic miracle. It had sony, toyota, fancy electronics and robotics, skyrocketing economics and technologies. US had what? Hair metal and ford americars? And webooism back then was limited to Robotech and Matsumoto works.

Nnah. It wasn't weeboism. It was a projection of then-economic-realities onto the future.

>>50834755

sure, but the katanas?

>>50835004
muh folded one gorillion times filthy baka gaijin.

Seriously, most people don't know that much about swords IRL. So they just know shit like how the katana was supposed to be some super awesome sword and that it was OBVIOUSLY the primary armament of samurai (it wasn't).

>>50835052

right, but if you're designing a game that's no excuse. You should still design at least three viable options with different strengths.

Even if it were 100% true that katanas WERE the best swords, I'd still be bullshitting a reason for longswords and rapiers to be functional competitors.

Okay I asked if there were teams looking for new players on here and got a response but then my SIN got burned and I had to go into hiding for a week.

So are there any groups looking for another player on here? Also checking on Roll20.

>>50835004
Nobody in the sixth word bothers with swords. Why would you do that if you have guns and magic and spirits and cybershit? Oh, and armored trailers.

Japanese are special snowflakes because gun control is AAA HQ level. Which combined with muh bushido after I think some stupid police incident in early 21st century makes them the only guys bothering with making useful bladed weapons. So your choice is either a katana or a sharpened road sign.

>>50835138
Swords, staves, and everything in between are also seen as status symbols in many corporate circles. Among the commoners and SINless they are practical, even among criminals because they are easier to get and more difficult to track as a murder weapon than a gun.

>>50835138

people make swords today. Why would you make swords if you have guns and tasers and chemical warfare shit? Oh, and tanks.

People make swords for any number of reasons, and that's true today, and we don't live in a world NEARLY as violent as the sixth world.

>>50835093
Your idea of katanas being the "best" is flawed, anon.
If you are trying to minmax, yes, it has 2 pips higher than most weapons, but I'd rather use a goddamn spear or polearm because reach gives you the same number of pips, and a bastard sword is 1 pip down from a katana while being easier to appropriate.
Even then, the game does not concern itself with tight balance, and NEVER has, or even attempted to. If katanas are making you this mad, wait till you get to magic, ho boy.

>>50835093
Mate, I'd love it if game designers were able to always get shit perfectly balanced so you had a reason to at least try everything. Sadly that isn't always the case.

Besides, while a bog standard "sword" isn't as good, it is cheaper and has a lower restriction rating.

>>50835138
Beyond status, it is potentially viable.

>>50835194

I litterally heard that in this thread. Argue with the guy saying it, not me. I'm just trying to learn about the game because I'm looking at playing for my first time, and I'm wanting to play melee because it seems more fun to me than guns, and everyone's gonna have GUNS.

>>50835252
Then hear this: If you want to melee, you do not need a katana. It's good, but if you are focused that much on optimizing, you'd be a mage or phys ad, not a street sam.
Get good armor, a good weapon of your choice, get some good chrome, fight smart, and have a backup skill set.

>>50835284

that's good to hear. I mostly just want to be able to play the roll of mobile blender.

I'm currently stuck on race, though. Orc because it seems the default, and has good stat spreads for it. Dwarf because I like playing a dwarf more and it's more-or-less the same, just slightly worse reaction(how important is this?). Finally, Nartaki, the fuckers with six arms, because they just sound neat in general. Is there anything I should know that would help make the decision? I'm kind of arguing myself in circles here.

>>50835093
The Horizon-Flynn Rapier. Run & Gun Pg 18. There are two differences between that an a katana. DV is STR+2 instead of 3 and it is half the price.

Yeah, doesn't sound bad to me.

>>50835192
People make swords mostly as toys, status symbols and novelty items, not as actual tools of the trade. People also "make" DIY guns all the time because they can or because they need. It does not mean they can in any way, shape or form compete with price/performance of a specialized mass production industrial process.

>>50835333

There are people who make legitimate, combat capable swords. Most mass-produced swords/katanas are show pieces. Most individually forged swords/katanas are functional. What the fuck are you talking about?

Also wouldn't Britain totally have this same shit, given their current nanny state?

>>50835321
>the fuckers with six arms
four arms
they get one extra pair, not two

>>50835363

ah well. either way, it's still neat. Seems dumb though, considering the object of worship being referenced has six arms.

>>50835379
I think it's the most CGL can do without having an aneurism
they HATE multiple limbs
the only guys that can get 6 arms are changelings with shiva arms

>>50835321
>mobile blender
You will die.
Look, omae, you are new to this, so I'll let you in on some shit.
Unless your GM is full pink mohawk, bodies is BAD. The "cops" are not blundering fools who exist to make the pcs look good, you start leaving cut up corpses, they WILL FIND YOU, 80% of the time, unless the rest of your team is that good at covering your tracks.
Street sams are there for when the run goes bad, or someone absolutely needs to taken out silently and swiftly. If the run has gone ploin shaped, yes, get your team out, no matter who you need to go thru, but if that is your primary tactic, you will have a short life, and so will your teammates.
That is why I said to have a backup skill set so you can do shit without having to chop fuckers up, because you honestly should not be doing it often if runs are going right.
As for race, I have always been a fan of orcs for damn near everything except hackers.
>>50835354
Britain wasn't like this during the lore's written time, so no. Australia, on the other hand.

>>50835408
>>50835379
oh and Shiva, who nartaki are named after, has had from 4 arms upward so 4 arms fit

>>50830152
Anyone playing any edition of SR these days?

I've recently been craving to play a phys adept who's concept is "the average Dark Souls player without the revival from death" and runs around with a riot shield and claymore.

>>50835432
what edition

>>50835452
Literally any but I have experience with 4th and 5th.

>>50835428

mobile blender is a description of capability, not intent. Fuck, I'm gonna take the Code of Honour shit so I'm not killing helpless, unaware, or unarmed opponents PERIOD. I'm not an idiot. You go non-lethal where you can. I'll probably have a selection of non-lethal melees and whatever the rocksalt shotgun equivalent is. But knowing I can, at any time, pull out swords or whatever and chop shit the fuck up is the fun part. Holding back from your true abilities can be fun too.

>>50835432

>dark souls player without the revival

so you want to play a one shot?

>>50835475
Aha- not quite.

I meant more a character who wears heavy armor, one-hands a big sword and a big shield and butt-pokes problems to death while being pretty quick on the dodge and parry.

>>50835487

So you want to play a dark souls player, but starting at havel-the-rock levels of armour in a world where dragons and giants don't exist?

nice. (WHAT A DICK)

>>50835521
>where dragons and giants don't exist?
giants I can give you somewhat

but(t) DRAGONS?

>>50835354
>There are people who make legitimate, combat capable swords. Most mass-produced swords/katanas are show pieces. Most individually forged swords/katanas are functional. What the fuck are you talking about?
In our current timeline, yes.
In a timeline where a sword is a common tool for at least a whole nation, mass produced swords are mass produced for function. And individually forged swords are like individually crafted firearms - you can't just buy a hand forged Excalibur off you friendly neighborhood fencer for a grand, same as a couple of millions other had forged Excaliburs every other fencer sells in sixpacks.

>>50835462
As long as you understand, because I've seen a fair few new SR players come in like it's D&D, then wonder why I discreetly sell them out to KE/Lonestar, especially if I have a cop contact for profit.
As a decent street sam, you will always have the ability to chop fuckers up. Hell, my bro played a Japanese dwarf samurai skilled at mounted archery and I played a Italian humanized orc mage. Along with the German ponc- er, elf, we were a team called the Axis of Awesome and had many adventures, until I cut a deal with a dragon (that I did not know was Lowfyr, who personally wanted my head on a pike because *backstory shit*), sold out the elf, led my dwarf bro on a suicidal rampage against a AA corps final refuge, and then when I went to get my reward, Lowfyr himself was waiting for me in a plush, opulent office with 2 flutes and a bottle of bubbly.
I about shat myself irl, and the last words the GM spoke of that game was, "And the door closes behind you. And then you died. The end. Who wants some scotch?".

>>50835521
>>50835540
Both exist in SR.

>>50835562
>everything was great
>until I broke one of the great rules and cut a deal with a dragon
>then everything went down the shitter

WHO'DA THUNK?

>>50835612
aren't giants in DS actually, you know, gigantic? and not just a few meters tall? because giants in SR are like 3.5 meters tall

>>50835633
>WHO'DA THUNK?
Oh no, omae, I knew it probably wasn't gonna end well.
I did think, however, I had escaped Lowfyr's eyes, at least in the meantime. Everyone's mouth's dropped, he couldn't have got a better reaction than if that faggot jester was sitting in the room.

>>50835633
There's a wide variety of giants- the Lords/Gods of Anor Londo are giant men given form by a different fire than humanity, who don't age and are between 2 to 4 meters normally, and have ability in sorcery and miracles. Then you have the giants from across the sea who are huge rock men with shadowed anuses for faces, are between 2-10 meters tall and 2-8 meters WIDE and are experts of pyromancy, which is the art of cultivating a living flame that will fuck your shit up if you don't respect it or fire in general.

>>50835540

Let me clarify- I meant as enemies.

If you're fighting dragons and giants in shadowrun, it doesn't matter what you're doing, you've lost.

>>50835562
>"And the door closes behind you. And then you died. The end. Who wants some scotch?"

Sounds like one hell of a campaign!

>>50835663

the lords vary hugely in size too, it's implied before he burned himself Gwynn was fucking HUGE, and the illusion we see behind O+S is probably about to scale, considering for all they know the chosen undead might be someone from before they closed themselves off and went into hiding, and would recognize a difference in scale, and she looks at least 4 meters tall, if not more.

>>50835323
Also one-handed vs two-handed which is quite the difference for everybody who also wants to carry a pistol (you always also want to carry a firearm ALWAYS) and also for everybody who wants to get the not insignificant bonuses from Dual Wielding with the fitting Martial Arts (eg +2 Dice in blocking, +1 DV +1 Precision while attacking)

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>>50835428
hardcoremirrorshadesnofun-guy pls go.

Shadowrun is a setting with privatized police forcers and everyday violence (read the fucking books), adding a corpse or another to that big pile that already exists is no problem, as long as you aren't really stupid while doing it and the person you snuff out isn't some Atztechnology high level Executive or some similiar NONONO target

>>50835988
Word.

>>50835988
We are not talking about one or two bodies here chummer. We are talking about going into a run and start killing security personal and wage slaves.
Once or twice sure. It happens. But if you decide to murder them instead of knocking ppl out not only does it becomes personal but it also affects the bottom line way more. Corps can not afford to look weak and runners killing their ppl on daily basis is exactly that

>>50836095
>security personal

nobody gives a fuck as long as its not elite force

Joe Burger is really not worth the hassle

>wage slave

See my comment above

That right in the "stupid" area.
If you do shit like this on a regular basis, you cost the corp permanent productive assets, which is really a bad idea.
Its also tainting your reputation because there is quite the difference in overcoming armed opposition and murdering defenseles civilians.

>>50831980
yes
no

>>50836300
Caring is what drives a good story and someone always care about someone. That wage slave you just shot? He was the exec best worker and you just lowered the productivity by 7.5%. Or he had the friends in high places that would be mad that he was killed. That nameless police officer? He may be dead but he was one of that rare 10% clean cops and his fellow policemen liked him. That random security guard in AA corp? Now the corp need to find new one to feel the hole.
If you want to kill people and not make a ripple because of "muh grimdark" feel free.

>>50835562
>I'm an asshole who killed all my other party members and was then murdered by a dragon
Have you considered not being an asshole?

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>>50832265
Had my players' decker NPC be possessed by a free spirit who is using his body to experience the world and the matrix.

Super handy for hand waving matrix stuff.

>>50835686
>If you're fighting dragons and giants in shadowrun, it doesn't matter what you're doing, you've lost.
Giants are just a troll metatype. They're p. easy to fight.
>>50836623
Isn't it a bit unrealistic that everyone is the best wageslave? Also, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but cops hate clean cops. That vastly overhyped 10% is usually harassed by the remaining 90.

>>50836653
Yeah yeah might have exaggerated a bit but depending on the length and number of killings you are bound to hit that one golden duck. Or just get hired to extract it.
About the cops it was mentioned in one of the books for that to be the case but there were examples where the rotten apples were the one being hated. So its either the 10% rotten or 10% clean while the rest 80% that dip a little into the dirt pick sides.

>>50835988
>everyday violence (read the fucking books
That every day violence is on the street, you dumbass, not in a corp office in the process of being burglar'd. You are using gang violence in the slums to justify murders in the suburbs, your example is flat out wrong.
If you want that, then play a openly pink mohawk game, but guess what? Most games are not full mohawk, and the moment you stray from it, the sensible application of the authorities is both valid and needed to stabilize the setting, because corps operate on the notion of law regardless how you choose to run the setting.
It's why no matter how mohawk you get, corps do not immediately send kill teams after runners despite having vaster resources than a runner team and the application (lack thereof) of law applying to them as well.
>>50836630
>badwrongfun
Excuse me, princess, that I offended your tender feefees by not having an all for one, one for all band of brothers attitude.
I found out afterwards that everyone had been tempted to sell the others out, I just did it first.
Then I ran the next game based in Tir na Nog, and it was great.

So /srg/, I love the setting. I love almost everything about it. However...

I cannot stand running the system, and playing it past a certain point of customization/advancement/etc. starts to get me absolutely infuriated. Very few of the actions, attacks, reactions, etc. really feel satisfying during encounters unless we take the game to a very theater-of-mind kind of play, which I have never found in a Shadowrun game to last long.

What do you guys do to smooth out your games, make the encounters (combat mostly, but also infiltration, social, etc.) feel more real/visceral/etc.? The best sessions we've had have been entirely social and sneaking and whatnot, with a LOT of roleplaying, but when more grindy encounters come up, the system feels like it's just absolute trash.

Sorry if this sounds a bit blog-posty.

>>50836913
>one of the books
Oh wow, that sure is a real source
Side note, but where does everyone get that 10/10/80 number? What liar originally claimed the number of good cops was as high as 10 percent?
>>50836959
>I don't see anything wrong with playing this game like paranoia
Here's a rule: any game with character creation longer than paranoia isn't a good game to have pvp in. Like, it's not even that hard to kill the entire party. It'll just result in campaigns ending quickly in unsatisfying ways.
Also,
>setting a game in a place with wildly contradictory and badly written fluff

>>50837268
>Side note, but where does everyone get that 10/10/80 number? What liar originally claimed the number of good cops was as high as 10 percent?
Run Faster, on Honour Codes. P. 31 specifically.

>>50837450
>>Side note, but where does everyone get that 10/10/80 number? What liar originally claimed the number of good cops was as high as 10 percent?
But people use that IRL, so presumably it predates that.

>>50837531
Ah, must be some local cultural thing. Never heard of it IRL.

>>50831977
In Debt is the worst quality, because you have to buy it off with two different resources.

>>50832330
The way to make use of your extra arms is to avoid the trap of thinking it lets you use multiple weapons.

Get an assault rifle (2 arms) a ballistic shield (1 arm) and have your fourth hand be used for grenades, medkits, picking up objects, and other mid-combat utility work.

>>50832627
>Fixer
>Connection 6
>Loyalty 1
That's a fucking terrible Fixer.

>>50833430
>dermal lacing
No, the skin armors are all fucking trash. Get Bone Lacing.

>>50833980
>It's literally objectively the best sword.
I prefer the Highland Forge Claymore. -2 Accuracy in exchange for a straight-up +2 Damage and an extra 2 points of AP is more than worth it unless you're both fighting a Dodge-lord AND your dice pool is fuckhuge. Plus, in situations where it's really important to blast past your Accuracy 6, Edge exists.

So, I'd disagree about the katana being the best sword, let alone objectively best.

>>50835138
>Nobody in the sixth word bothers with swords.
This is extremely false. Nobody's going to be putting a sword on a high-end military operator, but you see swords all the time on:
>Awakened characters who have magic blades
>Cybered-up badasses whose swords are backed by enough strength to chop a car in half
>Gangers who want to be intimidating or are poor fucks
>People who want to kill quietly
>Bikers who like to play at being cavalry
>Anyone living anywhere with strict gun control

Swords might not be the best choice compared to guns, especially for people without either magic or stupid levels of Strength to fill in the gaps. But the Sixth World has explicitly seen a huge resurgence - not disappearance - of the use of melee weapons, as shifting cultural attitudes and new melee weapon tech have both changed the way they're seen.

>>50838156
>Nobody's going to be putting a sword on a high-end military operator
The Red Samurai train their operators to be both experts in the art of the sword and with firearms, actually. The sword is as a fallback option if you end up disarmed somehow, and because melee weapons can be extremely versatile in exotic situations.

In Shadowrun Returns: Hong Kong, for example, there's a former Red Samurai character who got disarmed while infiltrating a restaurant to kill an executive of a rival corporation, and he ended up having to resort to stabbing a chopstick through the guy's windpipe.

So yes, they do put swords on high-end military operators.

>>50838022
Why?

>>50838392
Without Loyalty 2, they don't even see you as a 'regular customer,' and it takes Loyalty higher than that in order to be able to trust them to start offering favors or to fence goods or whatever.

I'm not saying they're going to betray you, but they're certainly going to be nowhere to be found in any situation other than things going exactly as planned.

You want a reliable fixer that you can trust. Start with a lower Connection if need be - they'll get more Connection in play as your reputation as quality professionals rubs off on them and they can start getting you higher-tier runs.

>>50838392
Because it is a fixer that would sell you for drugs and shiny boots.

>>50838436
Please tell me it would at least be boots made out of real snakeskin and not some shitty synthleather boots.

>>50838490
That really depends on how much you and your boys are worth, chummer.

>>50838525
Say I've done 4 good runs under him but I've pissed off a Triad doing the last 2 runs.

>>50838560
You are worth the shitty boots, son.

>>50838392
Both Loyalty and Connection can be raised during play for a Contact, but for something as pivotal as a Fixer, you want to be able to trust and rely on them from the very beginning.

Connection 4, Loyalty 3 is where I'd start. That means you'll start doing jobs for locals mostly (probably gang-related work, or some feel good runs), but you'll start as friendly acquaintances instead of just some guy.

As time goes on, you'll hopefully increase both of those by doing your fixer the occasional solid that helps to advance him socially - doing a run that barely pays or is high-risk but which will move him up a social circle, for example, should net him both an increase in Connection and some extra Loyalty towards you.

Connection 6, Loyalty 1 is someone that you don't ever talk to unless you want to pay him for a favor, and vice versa.

>>50838560
Which Triad?

>>50838642
The Octagon, you know, the shitty one.

>didn't make my own character
>my Fixer is Connection 4, Loyalty 2
I don't have anything to worry about, do I?

>>50838687
Nah, it's okay. Just make a priority of jacking up his loyalty up a bit.

>>50838687
Loyalty 2 is fine, but try to work it higher. You know, tell the guy you appreciate the business, buy him chocolate, be professional etc.

>>50838687
While you'll definitely want to get it higher in play, Connection 2 at least represents being a 'regular customer' rather than just some random guy to your Fixer.

Spend some downtime making friends with them.

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>>50838726
>buy him chocolate

>>50838735
Sometimes you gotta go down on your Fixer in the most romantic way possible. Make sure they'll be keeping your best interests in mind.

>>50837992
>nuyen or valued favours
>karma or replacement quality

>>50838773
>you owe the mafia a debt
>you pay off the debt by doing them a significant favor, and overnight your In Debt transforms into the Day Job Quality
Start saving for Made Man, because you just found your path to retirement.

>>50838618
>Connection 6, Loyalty 1 is someone that you don't ever talk to unless you want to pay him for a favor, and vice versa.
There's nothing wrong with having a fixer that you deal strictly in business with. When you're talking about how to distribute 7 contact karma, it's a question of what you want from your fixer. For some, state-wide or executive connections are more important than being chummy, and you don't get that breadth of connection at lower ranks.

>>50838809
>retirement
Buy the Trust Fund Quality in play if you want to be able to represent your runner putting away enough money to be able to live off of the interest indefinitely. If you want it to be a mafia-related retirement, the mafia literally owns Sicily, so they can hook you up with a legal Sicilian SIN and have your account at a mafia-owned bank.

>>50838828
With Loyalty that low, unless you're literally paying them for the service you're not going to see access to any of those Connections anyway. When you're in need of their help, it's going to immediately dry up unless you have something to trade for it.

Loyalty isn't just a matter of being chummy. It's what regulates what it takes for your contact to do something for you in the first place.

A Connection 6, Loyalty 1 contact is someone like a corrupt mayor who will do things for a bribe, but won't even take your call without a credit check.

That's not something you want in a Fixer. You at LEAST want to be one of their 'regulars,' at Loyalty 2, so that you're not just some random one-off guy to them.

>>50830630
See, I was thinking of having a Scandinavian doomsday cult/metal band as a minor villain in an upcoming. They worship a Doom spirit pretending to be Surtr. They're outwardly pretty affable, but are still trying to cause as much chaos and death as possible to start/prepare for Ragnarok.

>>50839124
Winternight 2.0?

>>50839188
The extremely low budget version yeah.

>>50837991
Not sure where you come from but basically every time someone here complains about police abuse that figure gets trotted out and you get told to stop bullying the fictional 90% of cops who aren't horrible people.

>>50835686
You can fight dragons. They have stats right in the core rulebook, they're pretty tough but they aren't invincible. Even a great dragon was canonically destroyed by a shaman decker with an assault cannon.

>>50839363
Those stats for dragons in the book? Canonically they are not representative of a dragons given power. Mostly because they are all high powered mages.

Dragons are plot devices in shadowrun. They only die when the author thinks it'll make a cool moment. Otherwise dragons are immortal.

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>>50830152
What is OP's image supposed to be? It's not Shadowrun at all.

>>50839411
>Great Dragons are plot devices in shadowrun
Fixed. Learn the difference, it could save your life.

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Who's your street doc? Do you even have a consistent/reliable one or do you get a new one whenever you need one? Could a cyberdoc work as a player?

>>50839363
>>50839411
>>50839499
Remember the cardinal rule "If you stat it they can kill it."
And bare in mind if a mage summons a force 10 and up spirit can take on a dragon. But its just as likely that the summoning alone will kill the mage.
And yes Great Dragons are meant to be plot points and GM's finger of god as they have "Fuck you" powers.

>>50839596
Our street doc is named Dr. Luvely. He runs a secret clinic under a hot dog stand for all the runners who can afford him.
You pay a lot, but what you get back is quality care and secrecy.
We also take any NPC's we adopt to him for check ups!

>>50838907
>With Loyalty that low, unless you're literally paying them for the service you're not going to see access to any of those Connections anyway.
... No. It's business. Fixers ALWAYS take their cut for arranging a Johnson meeting. You're not going to be paying again on top of that. For everything else that falls under Contacts, you're going to be repaying the favour anyway.

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>>50836959
>Excuse me, princess, that I offended your tender feefees by not having an all for one, one for all band of brothers attitude.

Says the guy who has spent hours assmad that someone would dare to use a melee weapon and/or play in a game that doesn't encourage total black trenchcoat and selling PCs out at the first opportunity.

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>>50839596
I haven't had a lot of luck with streetdoc players. Either focusing into their street doc abilities makes them shitty 'runners that have to stay in the back during almost all gameplay, or they wind up making bleeding hearts who hate hurting literally anybody on their way to a paycheck. Seriously, a game got delayed for a half hour because the street-sam was just going to shoot his way out and the 'doc got on his high horse about saving all the peoples. And this sorta thing seems to spread based on doctor-type characters.

>>50839865
>playing a streetdoc
>not being an amoral Dr. Moreau/Dr. Frankenstein type
Your players have shit taste.

>>50839865
How do you think one ought to balance a street doc character? Because I'm thinking of making one. No need to worry about bleeding hearts though, except the ones the character might harvest to sell.

>>50839596
>>50839865
I always did mad doctor. I enjoyed being close to the front lines so I could watch.

>>50839973
"Day Job" quality (II or III) combined to "Dependents" rank 2 should cover the aspect of being a doctor. Because, guess what, when you can patch people up; you're gonna get harassed for help all the goddamn time!

Don't get me wrong, "street doc running to get money for his 'clinic' and keep patching people up" is a fantastic concept. But the moment anyone gets aware you know how to save lives, you aren't going to be left alone anymore.

>>50839973
Make a shitty doc who runs to cover his ass.

If you max out and take all of the Advantages you need to be the best street-doc, then you're doing it wrong, IMHO. Take one advantage and put one or two points in each Doc skill, maybe even only skill groups, then focus up on doing whatever it is your character is supposed to be doing.

Then do what >>50840081 says and take Day Jobs. Why does your character 'run? Because he's a shitty doc. But he's still a doc, and just having the medical knowledge alone is enough to be a valuable member of most shadow communities - Maybe it's his dream to become a great 'doc and be able to support himself entirely as a medical professional, but that's going to take connections, more med school, and, of course, a LOT of money.

Until then, you'll deal with a little bit of bluster, a little bit of lying to your patients about their chances, and a good bit of luck.

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>>50840152
>>50840081
Thanks for the tips. I was thinking of focusing on being a cyberdoc specifically, so restricting my skill choices was already on the table.

>>50840409
Why's that a bug? A drone's limb's base and maximum Strength and Agility are based on base - not modified - Body and Pilot of the original drone.

>>50840409
Whoops! I misread Rigger 5. Yeah, agility's based off of pilot so it wouldn't be affected.

>>50840451
Nope, body downgrades affect a drone's maximum strength.

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Are there any major combat sports in SR besides Urban Brawl? I've been considering a competition-oriented game where all the player characters are on a sports team but I didn't know if there was anything else to work with.

>>50840494
It affects the drone itself's Strength. It has no effect on Drone Limbs, however, the same way that increasing a drone's Pilot score has no effect on its Drone Limbs' base or maximum Agility.

So your drone won't be able to haul as much using wheels if you downgrade its Body, but if it's an Anthroform Drone, its limbs will be unaffected.

>>50840535
>Are there any major combat sports in SR besides Urban Brawl?
Cyberfuture roller derby is a blood sport and no-one can convince me otherwise.

>>50840535
The sports that we know of in Shadowrun, aside from the normal ones like football, are:
http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_Biker
http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Wars
http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Miracle_Shooter
http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Urban_Brawl

Based on your picture, I'd say that's a rural (wasteland) Combat Biker league.

>>50840674
That's not what the book or chummer tells me.

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>>50840710
>Miracle Shooter is a sport

t. /v/

>>50839865
Goddamnit all I want to do is make supersoldiers in my basement lab

>>50840801
Chummer's programmed by some random dude, and he's been struggling with implementing the drone rules.

And you're just straight fucking wrong about what the book says.

>>50839865
We had a character like that who's plan backfired and started a genocidal fight.

We were just gonna blow up the commanders but Muh pacifism.

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>>50840981
If you could make supersoldiers in the basement, you wouldn't need runners.

Honestly Cybertechnology and Biotechnology are terrible skills for PCs anyways, because you can't use them outside of GM fiat territory for how you could repair or build 'ware. Putting points into the Biotech group (which doesn't include Biotechnology, thanks CGL) is the best bet for a baseline doc, then break it to pump up First Aid and Medicine because those are the ones you'll actually use.

>>50841056
>We were just gonna blow up the commanders but Muh pacifism.
I must request more details of this story from you.

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>>50841076
Well that's just gay.

>>50841076
I am so grumpy I can't make ghetto supersoldiers.

>>50839973
Use Butch as a template. He's someone you'd appreciate patching you up, and someone you could run with. I don't like any of the authors' self-inserts, but Butch is tolerable.

>>50841111
Well, you'd need lots of money to trick out your basement to actually do cyberware and bioware, so perhaps your motivation is to get money to start up your own shop.

>>50841120
I thought Butch was a she.

>>50841129
That's actually pretty good.

Soon, I can start mass producing genetweaked slowgrown clones of myself.

>>50840980
Fucking hell. AR ads would drive me insane. What's the Shadowrun equivalent of Adblock?

>>50841196
>the almighty corps
>letting you block their paid advertisements
I'm sure it exists, but it's no doubt illegal.

>>50841076
Everyone's complete disregard for cover and the use of helmets in that picture deeply offends me.

>>50841230
totally worth it

>>50841196
Be SINless.

>>50841196
Turning off your AR.

>>50841076
If I had those skills, I'd be constantly trying to drag enemy corpses home with me to rip their wares out and install them in my buddies.

>>50841196
Cracked programs. The good cracks that you pay for. Free cracks just have ads for illegal shit instead.

>>50840710
>http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Urban_Brawl
>basically rugby but with armor jackets and assault rifles
Bueno.

alright who was waiting for the stupid and incorrect answer >>50841274

saw it coming a mile away

>>50841297
>install them in my buddies.
>installing used cyberware on your buddies
You are a shitty, shitty friend.

>>50841274
In many shopping malls, it's a term of use violation to not be using AR.

>>50841372
Lost essence protects you from enemy mages. They should be thanking me.

>>50841389
>not already having a shit ton of lost essence as a streetsam, decker or rigger
>not needing your essence because you're a mage or face
Chummer.

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>>50841345
>>50841377

>>50841443
>i dont like ads when im on youtube so i turn off my monitor
anon pls

>>50841377
Man, next time I GM I'm going to have to remember to have the team get attacked by mall cops if they block AR ads. Should be good for a laugh.

>>50841377
But don't you need to gear to see AR? Sure, the stores can pop up holograms of their own, but other than that they can't force any AR onto you if you haven't got the gear. If you do have the gear, is mall security going to go around checking that you've got it turned on?

>>50841320
Rugby but with armored jackets and assault rifles in walled-off urban blight zones. Playing in old warehouses, fighting room to room in former tenement slums, through a half-finished skeleton of a building that got canceled 15 years ago - that kind of shit.

>>50841493
They give out cheap AR-equipped glasses at the door. Like the 3D glasses at movie theaters.

>>50841418
>needing your essence
>face
My Essence does less for me as a face than a decent suit, trufax.

>>50841493
The mall can detect if you don't have any devices on you receiving the AR feed. If that's the case, you will be ejected.

If you can't afford an AR-enabling device, then tough shit, they don't want homeless here - because not having at least some cheapass AR-enabled glasses is the Shadowrun equivalent of being too poor to avoid shoes. Nobody gives a shit that you're a poorfag, they just want you to leave.

>>50841535
The last time I checked Essence is a key component of your social limit, desu.

>>50841471
Just block them, anon.

>>50841163
They're going to be great support in about 20 years ...

>>50841610
>key component
If by that you mean lowering your essence to the smallest possible fraction will only shift social limit by the lowest possible amount ... then yeah, I suppose you could say that.

>>50841919
Yes, that is the plan.

>>50841969
If you're the kind of guy to make a bunch of clones to support you in your old age, your clones are the kind of guys to wriggle out of whatever cranial bomb or mental conditioning you try to use to bind them and dump you in a gutter.

What would be better as a dedicated sniper, an adept or a cyborg?

>>50842037
In 4e, if your GM is functionally retarded you can get away with some heinous shit by misinterpreting the hell out of Adept Centering.

>>50842008
Technically, my clones are the kind of guy who will use my lavish production line to make more clones.
Supersoldiers, after all, are their own reward. Just like ultimate bioweapons.

In Run&Gun, it says that the benefits of an improved rangefinder don't stack with any image magnification on the weapon. Does that mean it would stack with image magnification from somewhere else, like cybereyes, or am I just a powergaming faggot?

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>Loud
>Nearly impossible to smuggle
>Majority of them need Restricted Gear quality to even get at character gen


Are Machine Guns a trap option?

>>50842172
Yes.

>>50842172
Not if you get one of the big ones.

>>50841610
Like I said, it does less for me than a decent suit. The difference between Essence 6 and Essence .5 is - at most - 2 Social Limit.

Essence has as small of an impact on Social Limit as Willpower - and unlike Essence, Willpower is used to resist social rolls and for Composure.

Essence isn't at all relevant to faces.

>>50842172
They're designed for vehicle mounts and portable suppressing fire.

Using Enhanced/Regular SF, you can very casually demolish crowds of enemies with a good dicepool+weapon combo. But, this is if you are running and gunning, rather than sneaking and stabbing.

>>50842037
Neither. Dedicated snipers aren't functional in Shadowrun.

>>50842268
Anyone that conflates 'suboptimal' with 'nonfunctional' needs to be kicked in the 'nards seven or eight times.

>>50842172
If you can't picture a scenario where the ability to lay down a wall of incredibly noisy death would be helpful, then your playstyle isn't suited to machine guns.

>>50842268
What?

Get a grappling gun or a motorcycle with that gecko-grip tires. Any building becomes a platform to snipe with.

Furthermore, RuthPoly Coating can be really good to hide on top of buildings or off the side of buildings with a grappling gun.

Use drones to get vision on people, and snipe through walls with a smart gun. As long as you aren't underground/20 rooms deep in a building and there's windows, you can be sniper. If not, you can still bring a Springfield M1A and use it as a battle rifle.

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>>50841297
Cybertech and Biotech explicitly don't let you install or remove cyberware or bioware; that's under the Medicine skill (with Implant Surgery specialty).

All those skills do is allow you to "repair and create" the appropriate 'ware, which given how shitty and vague SR's rules about building and repair work are in general makes them useless karmaholes RAW.

>>50842291
>>50842340
Yeah, but how often is the target going to be somewhere you're going to get a clean shot at him? Not often enough. That said, shotguns work off the same skill as sniper rifles, so the smart thing to do is build a dedicated sniper and then make him good with shotguns too.

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>>50842123
You're a powergaming faggot. You can't blow up a picture to 4000% in Photoshop, then look at the monitor with a telescope, and expect to see things more clearly.

>>50842367
Pretty much anyone worth killing has a window with a view. Shoot them through it.

>>50842291
>>50842340
It's nothing to do with being optimal or not - you can easily optimize a sniper build.

The problem is that it's not functional in Shadowrun.

In Shadowrun 90% of the time you're going to be indoors in an armed compound. You know, a situation that's fundamentally incompatible with acquiring a sniper's perch and carefully picking off your intended target(s).

Anyone who invests in Longarms and tries to make a 'dedicated sniper' build is going to find themselves spending nine out of every ten combats mixing it up in a hallway with a shotgun instead of whatever the fuck they'd originally intended their build to be.

It's not that the mechanics are unfriendly to snipers. They're not. It's easy to make a mechanically effective sniper.

It's that the format of being a shadowrunner is fundamentally incompatible with dedicated sniping.

>>50842123
What benefit would an Improved Rangefinder even provide if you're already using Image Magnification?

That's a serious question. What mechanical bonus do you think you're going to be getting in that situation.

>>50842437
I don't know anon, I've never fired a real gun before.

>>50842319
A kitted-out assault rifle will let you do that just as well, if not better.

>>50842485
For like three seconds, then your mag runs dry.

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>>50842402
>2077
>using windows made of glass, like what poor people eat
>not having hyperrealistic 800k two-way displays that showcase a lavish apartment/office on the cutting edge of taste to the outside world, and present you with a stunning vista that auto-removes smog, tenements, and the runners currently blasting their way out the side of the Aztechnology pyramid

>>50842476
No, I mean mechanics-wise.

Using Image Magnification negates all ranged penalties already.

An Improved Rangefinder would add no bonus on top of that because all penalties have already been negated.

>>50842422
It seems like your DM is just does indoor jobs...

You can easily do a sniper if your DM doesn't just force you to do indoor stuff.

>>50842498
I genuinely enjoyed this comment. Thank you for making it.

>>50842495
Sadly enough, this is not true in Shadowrun. Machineguns are a sub-par option.

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>>50842291
Shadowrun's fanbase is probably the worst I've ever seen regarding this particular schism. Shadowrunning is a team sport, I understand that. Every character has a job to do and their skill at the job can be the deciding factor behind everybody either getting paid or getting killed. But so many players act like your character is a load unless you are tossing twenty dice at any given task, have <x> armor, <x> guns, and <x> cyberware/spells equipped. And then G.O.D. forbid you aren't an amoral asshole whose hobbies include murder and eating stale MREs in a bunker while rubbing his dick against his weapons fantasizing about all the murder he is gonna do later.

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>>50842498
>using windows made of glass, like what poor people eat
>glass, like what poor people eat

>>50842518
In which case you're a half-mile away trying to control sight lines while not being able to actually protect your party like a combat character is supposed to.

Regardless of where you're running, you're running into some combination of splitting the party or not even being in a location where you can interact with the run objective.

Unless your GM gives you exclusively sniper-friendly assassination jobs, you're going to find yourself useless more often than not if you try to be a 'dedicated sniper' instead of a longarms/shotguns-based street samurai who can also, when the situation calls for it, snipe.

>>50842552
I've met a couple of poor people in my time, pretty sure they eat glass.

>>50842540
Agreed. It's a massive pain in the dick to put together a group that doesn't have any of these people in it.

>>50842514
>Using Image Magnification negates all ranged penalties already.
It only bumps it down one range category, actually. And you see, I have this dream about being able to shoot at people 2 range categories away without any penalties.

>>50842518
Good luck finding a GM who doesn't make you do indoor shit.

>>50842600
>I have this dream about being able to shoot at people 2 range categories away without any penalties
Improved Rangefinder + Hawk Eye (Positive Quality).

Live the dream.

>>50842563
True but the solution to that is to play a rigger or a decker. Hack and snipe or use drones to create extra snipers and sight lines that you control.

>>50842625
That actually sounds really useful. 360 degree sniper support and the guy running it is in the getaway car ready to peel out as needed.

>>50842625
Having dedicated-sniper drones (probably ones that fly) is far less retarded than you, personally, trying to be a 'dedicated sniper,' yes.

>>50842616
>Hawk Eye (Positive Quality)
Does that still work if I'm rigging a rotodrone with a sniper rifle?

>>50842615
I DM and roughly 70 percent of my missions take place in a mixture of outdoors and indoors. Your DMs are lazy.

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>>50842518
>>50842563
>>50842600
>>50842615
>>50842616
Can... Can we just shoot people with the sniper rifle indoors?

>>50842651
Hawk Eye only works if you're aiming with your own meat-eyes.

>>50842657
Why would you want to? At close ranges, shotguns still use the Longarms skill and have better damage and fire modes.

>>50842658
Damn. No rigging equivalent?

>>50842662
The rigging equivalent is running in Hotsim with a Control Rig to get a Gunnery dice pool bonus more than big enough to counter the range penalties.

>>50842653
>DM
Chummer....

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Would an ork with green skin pigmentation be the equivalent of modern day blackface?

>>50842693
>Would a man of African descent who's very, very dark in skin be blackface?
No anon, it wouldn't.

>>50842683
>Chummer...

What did he mean by this?

>>50842702
But orks don't actually have green skin, right?

>>50842703
DM is a term that applies exclusively to D&D. Using it in reference to Shadowrun is compromising his credibility.

>>50842715
Hobgoblins are a type of ork who do, so I wouldn't consider it too unusual or surprising for orks in general to manifest it.

>>50842718
DM is interchangeable with GM because D&D is such a staple of tabletop roleplaying.

>>50842718

Really? I thought it was a catch all term for "Person who Runs Game." A term that most individuals understand to be as such.

>>50842718
Sperging out over it is compromising yours.

>>50842741
>>50842743
Nope. Dungeonmaster is only for D&D. You'll notice that in the books of other systems, the term never comes up.

>>50842745
>pointing out when others are using jargon incorrectly
>compromising credibility
It's like you don't even know the first thing about being a nerd.

>>50842743
Technically GM (or Game Master) is the catch-all. DM is the Kleenex to GM's facial tissue.

>>50842774
Go back to bed, Hasbro copyright enforcer.

>>50842773
>self identifying as a nerd

God why?

>>50842773
>It's like you don't even know the first thing about being a nerd.

God I bet you watch Big Bang Theory.

>>50842803
>implying that's a chosen identity and not a given one
Go back to the fraternity house, Chad.

>>50842803
I bet he's the kind of person that has strong opinions about the difference between a nerd and a geek.

>>50842819
>I bet he watches Nerd Blackface, the sitcom

>>50842839
>Nerd Blackface

Jesus Christ, you actually used those actual words.

>>50842845
Are you done now, Chad?

>>50842774
I'm the DM anon and I've never thought about it that way. Guess I should update my terminology. It's one of those things that I've used forever that no-one's ever corrected me on it.

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>>50842839
Minstrel show, you mean. Nerd blackface is pic related. The song and dance routine that goes with it is its own thing.

>>50842856
Shouldn't you be busy complaining about Pepe becoming mainstream over on /r9k/?

>>50842883
>going to /r9k/
>caring about memes other than wishing that their end come quickly and soon

>>50841076
I really like the guy in the background of that picture who's just standing there shooting and looking grumpy.
>I don't want to be on this run
>These guns are too loud
>They gave me a shitty machine pistol
>My feet hurt
>I want to be at home shitposting on the matrix

Shadowrun is actually pretty depressing to me because in a world with full immersion VR, my bills would shrink to enough soy to not die and a long-term lease at a coffin hotel.

>>50843400
>Shadowrun is actually pretty depressing
Uncontroversial statement.

>>50843503
Most people find the setting depressing. What I find depressing is that my life would be better in it.

So, I want to play crazy taxi guy, a prophet of the church of speed.

But what skills and abilities should he have outside the car? Should I use magic or tech to achieve sanics?

>>50843737
>wants to drive fast
>anything other than a rigger
Pick one omae.

>>50843799
I think mages, adepts, and sams can all also go fast.
But which is the fastest?

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>>50842773

That's because you can't use Rust Monsters, or Beholders, or Tiamat. D&D has copyrighted items, and DM is one of them.

>>50843856
Nothing beats vehicles in terms of speed.

>>50843737
Wasn't there some ridiculous bullshit you could pull with a go-fast spell that resulted in breaking the speed of light?

>>50843856
Technically they all go at the same speed; Speed and Acceleration are statistics of the vehicle, not the character. What is a property of the character is their ability to drive/fly those vehicles without crashing.

Also this:
>>50843906

>>50843906
Well, you need to be fast out of the car too.
Also I much prefer hnds on the wheel to jacking in thematically, if at all possible.

>>50843929
I am highly interested in this as an endgame for the character

>>50843929
yeah, movement is a fun power
https://www.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/1napj6/everyone_is_dead_san_francisco_is_a_radioactive/
also IIRC we had calculated that you could make a car go 22000c

>>50843955
Well. It would certainly be an end.

>>50843941
>Well, you need to be fast out of the car too.
In that case, you still want tech.

Partial cyberlegs (from the knee down) with Bulk let you have Skimmers (doubled movement speed), Hydraulic Jacks (ignore the first 12m of any fall distance without a roll), and Armor 6. If you have good enough Agility, that can get you up to highway speeds on foot.

>>50843941
>leaving the car
>not making drones do everything for you
>not riding around on a very fast drone

>>50844039
>>50844020
>>50843970
Fuck.
These are all really great but mutually incompatable.
>>50843990
Making the jump to warp speed is an adequate end for the character.

>>50844078
found the thread
http://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/45770780/#45781016

>>50844112
So basically I have to be a shaman if I Want to become one with pure speed.

>>50844157
or a mage, yes

>>50844168
Well, this has been informative.
Time to make a holy carshrine/lodge.

>>50844157
I've got a funny feeling that if you stack absolutely everything that makes your underwater speed increase it gets ridiculous fast.

>>50844202
There were less that could stack than I thought, but I could build a 400 BP troll that could reliably swim at an average of 60km/h

>>50844326
Wait... I can build a seal shapeshifter that can do an average of 108km/h, but that'd require deltaware full 'legs' to put the water jets on, which'd be beyond a starting character.

>>50844157
To be precise a Mystic Adept Shaman of Ferrari (mentor spirit horse) so you can initiate and learn the movement critter power as a metamagic power

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Animal Rigger setup to profit

1: Get a rat, any rat will do
2: Install cheap Orientation Goad into rat
3: Install cheap image link into rat
4: Install micro grenade into rat
5: ????
6: Profit ?

What do you think ?

>>50841004
>some random dude
No. It's a not-so-elite crew.

>ur wrong lol
No.

There's no way to do stun damage with a physical weapon is there, besides obviously hitting something with too much armour?