If Cadia does fall, will he have earned his arms back?

Abaddon the 'Armless will always need a hand when trying to defeat Cadia. The Black Crusades are just a cry for help.

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>>50810836
He needs to be heavily armed to defeat Cadia.

He'll need a proper armada to take Cadia.

no

even if he gets a new model and has daddy GW blow up the setting he won't be able to erase that particular meme from existence

>>50810888
Damn, Khorne, lay off the sick burns.

>>50810836
He'll only get his arms back if he succeeds. Of course that will mean the end of the setting so....

>>50810888
This

No matter what bullshit GW tries to force down our throats about how super kewl he is, Abbadon and Chaos will always be the spoilt, whiny, little kids on the soccer team, who have to run back back to GeeDubs whenever they aren't being treat like the little special snowflake superstars GeeDubs keeps saying they are.

GW can make them win, but they can't make them be respected.

What if Abby takes over Cadia, only to find out it's really a new planetary Titan that is about to self destruct?

>>50810836
Only if he manages to not get blown the fuck out by the Imperial Navy again.

So why hasn't he been killed again?

>>50811035
Will any means of writing make it feel like they earned it?

>>50810836
It would be funny when the first picture from the new abaddon will show him without arms. someone should give GW a hint.

>>50811155
>Chaos Gods realize that if Abaddon wins, not only will the Black Crusades end but Abaddon's Black Imperium plan they don't like
>Abaddon will need to fight his very allies for his victory

>>50811155
no, because they've removed player agency

>>50811199
Sounds about right.

I imagine Kharn might do a little betraying at the last moment of hypothetical "victory" though.

>>50811155
The Entirity of Chaos is fluff is vague wanking about How Chaos is immortal and eternal and how there are infinite unkillable demons and how despite the fact that The Chaos Gods are a bunch of petty, capricious fucks with no attention spans, that one character flaw doesn't come into play to keep them from uniting.

Nothing Chaos has feels like they earned it.

>>50811223
>Abaddon realizes that he needs to get rid of Chaos gods to win
>Abaddon hears of the Harlequins' plans & makes his own version which destroys more than Slaanesh
>Abaddon, unrestrained, kills the Emprah
>Just as planned
>Emprah becomes a Chaos God
>Because Abby destroyed the others, he's the only one there
>Chaos wins but with the Emprah as Chaos

>>50811283
Basically from a narrative standpoint they are the spoiled villan sues, who thw writers visibly love more then the protagonists

I remember seeing this before but I can't place it

>>50811285
Please happen.

>>50810836
Cadia? I haven't heard that name in years... I remember the Eye of Terror campaign and I'll never forget St. Josmaine's Hope.

>>50811285
Works for me

>>50811285
>The Emprah has become insane after 10000 years of psychic torture
>He use his newfound powers of God to torture the souls of trillion of people

>>50811585
>Emprah becomes increasingly petty
>starts fucking with people in the weirdest of ways
>Snotlings are the top of the Orkish foodchain, Orks become the lowest
>Eldar start to murderfuck each other now that Slaanesh is gone but Emprah pretends to be Slaanesh just to fuck with them
>Squats return
>Necrons & C'Tan are made fully aware but without any control & given to the Mechanicus to be researched/molested
>Tyranids become the tastiest & weakest race in the Galaxy without the Hivemind noticing, world hunger is cured
>Tau discover an old Terran anime named Mobile Suit Gundam

>>50811035
10/10 analogy

>>50811283
>Chaos is immortal and eternal
> The Chaos Gods are a bunch of petty, capricious fucks with no attention spans
This could be cool. The idea of utterly inhuman, alien other-dimensional almost all powerful disembodied space gods equating to basically bored kids with adhd and super powers work. Geedubs manages to turn it into shit somehow though.

>>50811856
>Snek Waifu

Is this supposed to be a thing

>>50812101
It's because having them be Lovecraftian Elder God Wannabees who eventually destroy everything seemed more "poetic" and "deep" to them than actually having them be a balanced and likable faction fluffwise that actually embodies the Chaotic nature of the Warp in stead of just vaguely encapsulating some vague metaphor about mankind being destroyed by it's sins.

GW writing is hit or miss, with a giant block of lead leaning things towards "miss".

>>50813669
But that metaphor falls flat because humans as a whole are not garbage, and it also doesn't account for the alien races, or even the fact that the Necrons and Old ones are more responcible for it then humanity

>>50813926
You're preaching to the Choir Anon.

>>50814115
I'm trying to understand the though process that leads one to think "inevitable doom at the hands of your "collective sins" is deep

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>>50811111
By the emperor, those digits!

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>>50811155
nothing can cover up the fact that chaos has failed to conquer the imperium for over ten thousand years.

someone have the screencap about men holding off demons for ten thousand years and the demons have no excuse?

>>50810872
You want Exterminatus Carlos? Because that's how you get Exterminatus.

>>50810836
>>50810865
>>50810872
>>50810926


LOL! Is this a new meme?

>>50811035
This can be said about literally any faction's fans.

>>50815337
Chaos has already won. The emperor rots on his corpse throne. If he ever dies he would ascend to a higher plane of existence.

>>50815337

What part of Long War don't you understand?

>>50816071
I'm not talking about the fanbase, I'm talking about the actual faction itself.

>>50816096
So let me get this straight
-You're backed by infinitely respawning hell demons that are strong enough to tank pretty much everything in the setting
-You have unrestrained access to psychic powers
-You're all "blessed" by chaos to have all sorts of crazy powers
-You've got pretty much all of your traitor primarchs still around
-Time and space have literally no meaning to you
-have giant plot armor
-fighting against what is best described as human wave tactics
-infinite ammo

And it took you how many thousands of years to take 1 planet?

>>50816183
The crusades were not all against Cadia. Most had other goals like obtaining MacGuffins. Read the fluff.

>>50811077
CRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED

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Don't worry Cadia, everything is fine

GW posted this on one of their blogs

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The ORKS will save the galaxy!

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>>50811724
>Squats return
>Implying they haven't already

>>50816717

>abbadon didn't lose those 12 other times, he was only pretending

Sure, GW.

Chaoswank is even worse than Tauwank. They should wank factions that deserve it, like Orks or Nids.

>>50811035
Go back to fapping to Grey Sues and muh "Imperial Guards are normal humans fighting vs monsters!!11!1".

You imperial fags are such insufferable pricks.

>>50820840
Oh, you're just trolling.

>>50821305

No. Chaos (as a faction) has no goddamn stakes. It's all either "EXACTLY AS PLANNED" or "I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME, GADGET, NEEEXXXTTT TIIIMMEE!".

There's no fucking tension there. It's shit writing, even by the (already low) standard I hold GW's writing to.

>>50819104
>Daily reminder that FFG lost license

>>50810836
>Cadia
>Falling
That would imply that the plot advances and that doesnt' happen in 40k

>>50811035
Hey, faggot, you do know Eye of Terror was retconned because Chaos kicked the Imperial asses so much that Order crybabies whinged until they retconned it.The Chaos players dominated nearly every battlefield and had the Order by the robes.

This is how you know that EVERY single Imperialfag is a entitled faggot. They won't even acknowledged that GW is biased towards them,.

>>50821571

Ynnead exploded

>>50821383
Wrong, read the fluff. Start with the Black Legion supplement or play Battlefleet Gothic game.

>>50821571

OP postulated an if. So yes, your post is correct.

Here, have a cookie?

>>50821602
Aun'Va was killed.

>Nope, in fact in the campaign the Imperium didn't actually meet ANY of its objectives. The only "Good Guy" faction that DID win its objectives were the Eldar, and their reward for their effort was Eldrad being killed off and devoured by a Demon of Slannesh.

>It wasn't that the Imperium "won" space, its that Chaos did get that specific objective, the only one they failed. But that wasn't even the objective of the Imperium, they needed to hold select worlds and destroy the Blackstone Fortresses before they reached Cadia, all of which they failed.

>Chaos basically won everything, with every major planet under contest being dominated utterly by chaos, including Chaos.

>The story was retcon'd for two main reasons:

>1) There was an outcry by the rather large eldar player base, who felt completely betrayed by their reward for being the only competent faction on their side being losing one of their only important characters, creating bad press.

>2) They released a new Chaos Codex, expecting a more fair fight for chaos with the buff. But Chaos 3.5 was probably the best codex ever released in GW history, combinding fluff with in game mechanics to create SOLID armies that felt fantastic. This threw increadible support for Chaos by players rushing out and buying new chaos armies, abandoning the Imperial Side for Chaos, then playing the strongest codex in the game at the time. The Imperial side got annihilated utterly, and the story significance would have limited releases by GW as they originally expected a real stalemate, not one-sided slaughter.

>So knowing this, GW ret-con'd the Black Crusade in the next official book, pushing it back to minute to midnight.

>It wasn't retconed because Chaos lost, its because Chaos won too hard in 40k at the time due to a recent solid codex release and fanfare by the players.

>Again, context people...

An anon from a previous thread explained it quite well.

>>50821682
So you see ladies and gentlemen, GW coddles the Imperialfags and favors them. Deleting their losses from history so the little bitches won't get offended .

So when a cunt like this >>50811035 claims that Chaos are spoiled children who have GW shoring their backs, U get triggered. History revision at its WORSE application. FUCK!

Come on, you losers, I want you name a SINGLE GW campaign book series where the Imperials lost. You fucking can't. Because GW has an Imperial bias and always did. You are the spoiled children who throw tantrums when other factions get a bone thrown to them.

Imperialsfags KYS! *Mic drop*.

>>50821626
Magnus returned

>>50821721

mont'ka/kayoron

>>50821788
Ended with the Imperials nuking the planet the Tau invested so much resources and sacrifices in taking turning the Tau victory into a disastrous tragedy because NO ONE gets to win a clean victory over the Imperium. That would cause the Imperial fans to cry and we don't want that.

Seriously, Imperialfags are the cancer tharts killing the narrative. They cannot accept their faction suffering any defeats.

>>50821721
>I want you name a SINGLE GW campaign book series where the Imperials lost.
Every single IA book.
>b-but GW isn't FW
Yes it is.

>>50822136
I said GW as in GW design studio.

FW is made by a whole different team and nobody gives a damn about their 40K books.

>>50821721
Wait, are you saying imperials are coddled because chaos got overpowered books? That seems to be your argument.

>>50822395
I am saying that they are coddled because GW would never allow the Imperials to lose ever in any campaign. Nobody gets a clear victory over the Imperium. And if they do, GW fixes it.

>>50822444
It sounds to me more like GWs balls were exposed on stream when it was shown what an unbalanced pile of shit their game was, and scrubbed the tourney to keep it from getting too obvious.

Though I am biased against chaosfags as liars in the first place after they were shown to be lying about their own fluff in several crossover threads.

>>50822536
Prove it imperial faget

Spoiled piece of Mary sue bullshit

>>50822660
I don't even play warhammer, chaosbaby.

I am just pointing out your scenario says more about gw's pile of shit game than any one faction. Though it does seem to show some chaos favoritism for apparently being super overpowered.

And that chaosfags are habitual liars.

>>50822694
Proof that we lie dammit

At that scale he has the same proportions as the 40k model? Is it supposed to be canon that his head and torso were the same size?

>>50822769
Look up the rexent power level thread that ended in carmen sandiego victory.

The guy there was shown to be lying about his own sources and proceeded to get blown out repeatedly by people who actually read the sources he posted.

This happens any time chaos shows up to those things, and has become something of a running joke in those threads.

>>50822815
>>50822536
You are making no sense, faggot.

Campaign books are biased towards Imperials regardless of who is involved. For example, Death Masque which featured Deathwatch vs Eldar. As we know, the Eldar are the most broken army at the moment but they are the most shafted army when it comes to the fluff. Death Masque was no different.

In Death Masque GW literally murdered the Eldar race and dashed to dust TEN FUCKING YEARS of story of the Eldar story build up just to hype their new Deathwatch release and character.

>Crossover threads

Threads that I never visit because they are cancerous so you just admit to be living cancer.

>>50823085
That goes against the whole "chaos was so overpowered they blew out the tourney" shit you were talking about earlier.

>>50823136
No, it doesn't. Being overpowered on the TT means jackshit when it comes to writing about the lore. Case in the point, the Eldar.

In writing the lore, the bias is towards the Imperium.

You just admitted that you don't play warhammer so you don't know what the hell I am saying.

>>50823183
Yeah, and as an outsider it sounds like chaos bias from being hugely overpowered and having their fluff beat eldar's.

>>50823197
You really not reading my posts or too, are you? Or you are so dumb that you don't understand what's being said. I'll just leave you stew here until someone with a grasp on warhammer has something worthy while to say.

>>50823230
worthwhile*

>>50817059
>>Fleeing the Black Crusade, swarms of refugee ships pile into the system in unheard of numbers, followed variously by pirates, chaos warbands, and various imperial forces assuming to protect their people.
>>Orks are increasingly distracted in their conflict with each other and grow frustrated at the constant (and disappointingly dull) interruptions
>>In an unprecedented move, the two warbosses call a truce in order to stomp the humies who started this mess and interrupted their fight
>>Galaxy's biggest waaaaugh ever forms, hell bent on taking Cadia, all because the Orks want to fight amongst themselves

>>50823230
>Chaosfag gets all pissy when refuted
This is what one comes to expect from chaos players when confronted with information they don't like.

>>50823319
You refuted nothing and provided no information. From your post it looks like you are simply baiting.

So here is homework for you. Cite single recent campaign series where the Imperium lost.

>>50823360
GW campaign series, mind you.

>>50823360
You mean that one you were just talking about because chaos won hard?
And then you were whining about it because nothing of import happened, because nothing ever happens in 40k?

>>50810836
Eh, fuck this guy and his 13 failures in a row.Lufgt's somali crew has been doing more damage to the Empirium than this twat of a warmaster

>>50823453
Not really.

>>50823417
>Eye of Terror
>recent

Stop dodging the question. Where is the citation? Where is the reputation? Where is the information?

>>50823478
refutation*

phoneposting sucks!

>>50823478
I cited you, anon. The things you were just talking about.

Your own arguments are self defeating when put next to each other. Here you are going on about how chaos never wins, where before you were going on about how chaos won everything.

>>50823502
Nope, you cited nothing. And too dumb to understand the context. I asked in my posts for anyone to provide a single recent GW campaign book series where the Imperium lost. You continue to fail to provide.

>>50823270
>>One Ultramarine company atak the biggest waaaaugh
>>Win and lost only 1 guy who heroically sacrifice himself to kill the warbos

>>50823547
Ive already got one, by your own admission.

>>50823610
Nope, Eye of Terror isn't recent nor was it GW controlled.

Try again.

>>50821598
>Order Crybabies
Get the fuck back to Age of Sigmar.

>>50823635
Newfag, Eye of Terror factions were broken to two groups

Order : Imperium, Eldar, Tau

Disorder : Necrons, Nids, Dark Eldar, Chaos.

>>50823633
I've got enough data points I think, as 100% of the tourneys i've heard of or that were discussed are chaos victories.

>>50823661
Apologies.

>>50823668
Eye of Terror wasn't a tourney and you are bullshitting because I have see the results of plenty of warham tournaments

>>50823697
As someone who doesn't give a shit about warhammer, all I have to go on is you going on about how op chaos was for a tourney, and how them being overpowered somehow meant another faction was coddled.

>>50823710
Which proves you know nothing about what's being discussed and should leave the warhammer 40K fans discuss their setting rather than butting it like clueless moron.

>>50823765
Nah.
Im gonna butt in when the whiniest group of 40k fans tries to claim anyone else is whinier. Imperialfags are more annoying, sure, but chaosfags whine way more.

This is a setting where the good gus winning is actually unexpected, so honestly a hero victory would be nice

>>50823851
Except for the fact that they win like most of the time.

>>50823851
Itd be nice if this whole imperial/chaos fuckery got tossed aside and some minor faction won it all. Like tau, or orks, or necrons, or really anyone but imperium and chaos.

I am sick of "chaos was behind it all, but imperium are heroes!" Plots.

>>50823824
Chaosfags have the most OP faction in lore. But they can never win because then the lore would be over.

So they whine because it's ridiculous how the empire can withstand war an all fronts against vastly more powerful foes.

TLDR: GW can't write lore properly so the power balance anf the events that unfold don't make sense.

>>50823918
I think tyranids, necrons, and orks are all more powerful in lore. They all have ways to assream the entire warp with ease, but don't because nothing ever happens in 40k.

Chaos is sort of mid tier.

>>50810836
I hope Cadia gets broken and Abby dies by Saint Celestine, then a new Warmaster takes the helm and we ramp it up

>>50823947
objectively wrong.

>>50823971
That sounds like a good way to do things, but what about those who bought the abaddon mini?

>>50823977
Not really? Shadow of the warp literally overshadows the warp, pylons seal it off, and waaaugh turns it into ork super fun club.

>>50810836
So much Carnac itt

>>50823971
Abaddon isn't even on Cadia. When he was last sen he was hiding to the core of the Eye of Terror to do something. The core of the Eye of Terror is where reality ceases to exist, it's birth place of Slaanesh.

>>50823996
It doesn't. Tyranids avoid warpstorms and we have instances of them getting destroyed by warp rifts.

The Pylon project was retconned and now Newcron anti-warp technology is said to be inferior to psykers in combatting the warp.

The Waaaagh! does nothing to combat Chaos or the Warp. In fact, in more than one occassion, the Orks rage and bloodshed invited daemons into reality.

>>50824041
>This piece of fluff is old, so let's discount it
>But these other old fluff pieces support me, so include them

Either pylons work, or tyranids and orks are chaos free. Pick a time period and go with it

>>50824072
New lore trumps older. The pylon project no longer exists in the setting or the storyline.
And the pieces I am citing about Tyranids and Orks getting fucked up by Chaos rifts/warpstorms come from 7th ED, the latest edition.

>>50824109
Hm, that soundslike terrible chaos coddling. Maybe they're onto something with the pet antagonists theory. Either that or you are lying, always hard to tell with chaosfags.

Oh well, at least nids can still fuck chaos by eating all life in the galaxy.

>>50824155
Nope, the Imperium is still number one in campaign winning. Chaos never won a single book and probably never will.

So the Imperials are only guys being coddled

>>50824196
>Retcons entire universe to make chaos big dogs
That's pretty hard coddling.
Face it, you humanfags are coddled like precious little babies by gw, chaos or no.

>>50824230
Though, if chaosfag isn't lying, imperium gets tt coddled and chaos gets fluff coddled.

>>50824230
Nope, the Necron retcon wasn't about Chaos. With the C'tan sharded and the Newcrons wanting their souls back, it makes no sense for them to seal the warp.

Tyranids Shadow in the Warp was never said to calm warpstorms or shutdown rifts. Even in the oldest lore, the Tyranids get screwed up by being sucked into warp storms by freak accidents.

Oldest Ork lore has Orks Waaagh! being invaded by armies of daemons while they are in warp traveling.

You just don't know how the setting works.

>>50824297
>Its not about chaos, they just changed every faction to make chaos better!

We've pretty much reached the point in the argument where either chaos are huge coddled setting favorites, or they are not as powerful as you describe.

Depending on whether you wanna plug your ears and go full "nuh uh!" On the various warp defense systems the various factions have.

>>50824353
>ignores the fact that nothing got changed

Orks and Tyranid fluff wasn't changed one bit. Do you have an example of Tyranids shutting down a warp storm or an Ork Waaagh! banishing daemons? Post proofs.

As for the Necrons? The change was done to give them personality.

>>50824411
>Ignoring central point about how chaos are necessarily coddled babies if you want them as strong as you describe
I mean, I could go on about how orks are supposed to beat up demons mid transit and about how tyranids can close warp storms by eating surrounding life, but I doubt you care.

>>50824468
Warpstorms have nothing to do with surrounding life. In fact, Warpstorms can happen anywhere even in areas that are lifeless. The smaller ones travel around. But that's besides the point, show me where it';s said that Nid Shadow can shut them down.

>I could go on about how orks are supposed to beat up demons mid transit

Irrelevant, the fight can go both ways. You implied that the Waaagh! effect would banish the daemons. Show me proof.

And this isn't about Chaos or its strength. It's about the nature of the general Warp and its (un)natural effect on space. You made claims that are false and cannot back them up.

>I doubt you care

My caring has ended really. I got get some work done. Toddles~

>>50824581
>Warpstorms can happen without life!
The warp is specifically stated to be fueled by sentient life in all spurces chaos books included

>You said orks banish demons
I said orks make the warp into super ork funhouse.

Also I like your unsubstantiated claims while simultaneously demanding proof.

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>>50810836

>Demon Primachs actually bending the knee to this cuck

When did Chaos go so wrong bros?

>>50824622
Around the time they tried to paint them as a "serious" threat, dumb frogposter.

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>>50824641

The old ones were frogs

>>50824670
Its a shame frogposters have ruined frogs for the forseeable future.
Just like horses and cartoons.

>>50824686
>ruined
You're not fitting in here very well, are you reddit?

Why does John Cena's theme song start with "Abaddon"? I don't get the connection.

>>50821721
most victories against tyranids are pyrrhic, with planets that are permanantly lost (like prandium for ultramar)
there is also the fact that the tau fluff is basically them pushing further and further into imperial space
you can also add all the fluff about sisters jobbing
the dark eldar stealing the panacea STC for lulz
the best swordman from the imperial fist sword tournament get his ass kicked by lelith hesperax

all in all, the very heart of the fluff of the imperialfags, as you say, is that they are losing grounds, always on the defensive
plus magnus just destroyed fenris.

>>50824692
Frogposters never fit in well on /tg/, anon.
They are seen as board invaders from /pol/, /b/, and /r9k/.
I know this is strange to you, but hopefully you get used to it.

>>50824622
I blame ADB and his insistence that Abbybooboo is actually super smart/strong/charismatic/wise/sexy etc. and is totally better than all the primarchs put together and Big E is afraid of him but only Abby is stronk enough to "save" humanity and that Chaos is a great stepdad

>>50824692
>>50824847
Why is it that the frogpost invaders always claim the natives are from reddit?

As Im no longer Geedubs affiliate, nor playing their game, I would like still implore, that Chaos is pretty much coddled to the destruction of whole setting. Proof? 3 words: "Age of Scrub" eee "Sigmar"

>>50811724
>>Snotlings are the top of the Orkish foodchain, Orks become the lowest

this was canon once

snotlings were super intelligent and made the ork race (Brain Boyz)

>>50811724
>>Tau discover an old Terran anime named Mobile Suit Gundam
Pls. Easiest and cheapest conversions ever.

>>50824620
Warp as a whole, not Warp storms.

Source is Crusade of Fire. Warp storms don't need areas to have life in them to begin.

>I said orks make the warp into super ork funhouse.

Source?

>>50824865
Why is it okay for Imperial heroes to beat up Primarchs and things like Avatars but its bad for Chaos heroes to do the same.

Abaddon, Kharn (before Traitor's Hate, and the rest Chaos heroes have nothing worthy to their names. Is this hypocrisy?

Calgar defeated a Greater Daemon who is more or less a march of a Primarch in combat. IN A FIST FIGHT. Nobody batted an eye for it.

>>50825431
The warp requires life to exist.
Source: all chaos codexes

>>50824817
>plus magnus just destroyed fenris.

Magnus lost on Fenris but got given a consolation prize. Fenris is in fact healing and getting better. The people are seeded with Chaos taint and they might pose a problem to Woofs recruit in the far future. That's it.

And I was talking specifically about campaign books which the Imperium wins again and again or never really loses.

Fall of Cadia is a campaign book so this makes me depressed since I know that GW follows an unbroken pattern when writing these books. Cadia ain't gonna fall and the traitors will lose because nope you cannot have the Imperium lose ever.

>>50825512
You also can't have the imperium win in any real way.
Everything has to stay mostly the same forever.

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>>50825465
No, it doesn't. The Warp is an alternative universe that exists with or without life. Even in life is destroyed, the Warp and Chaos will continue to exist since they exist in a universe that knows no time or space.

Source is every rulebook and Chos codex ever.

And motherfucker I can post it here.

>>50825553
Which removes any interest and tension in the setting. I can hardly bring myself to read the lore because I can predict how things will end by page one.

If anything AoS did right is that there is no status quo in the setting. It makes for an enjoyable read since I don't know what's going happen next.

>>50825563
That passage you cite specifically says the warp needs humans to do shit like exist.

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>>50825709

Nope, L2R, it says that Chaos will end all life, space, and time in the galaxy.

There only will be Chaos.

>>50825728
>When chaos has all the life, there will be only chaos!
They still need the life in your citations, anon.

>>50825762
>>50825728
>Says right there chaos needs humans to get to endgame
>But it doesn't need humans you guys

>>50823991
What about people that bought the Sly Marbo model? Seriously though I doubt they'll kill off the Chaos poster boy.

>>50825762
>All life will end

Chaos has no life. It destroyed every sentient being in the galaxy.

>>50825785
Are you stupid?

The question whether Chaos needs humans and other lifeforms to exist. It doesn't.

>>50825794
And yet it requires it to get to that point, and will fail if all life dies.
Chaos' endgame is the capture and control of all life/souljuice.

Reminder that soulless things make Chaos sad.

>>50825808
It apparently does, as it can't even get to that state without life.

>>50825813
See >>50825808
Life or without life. Chaos will continue to exist.

It requires humanity to break the barriers and flood reality. That's it.

>>50825837
Reminder that chaos codexes regularly state the warp is made out of intelligent creature's psychic farts, and then goes on to contradict that by claiming chaos is eternal.

Reminder chaos is one of the most poorly written factions.

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>yfw not all life Chaos likes

>>50825841
>as it can't even get to that state without life.

Nice headcanon. Sad you have nothing to back it up while we have lore that says the beings of the Warp are immortal and ageless.

>>50825848
And to make chaos gods. And to even exist in the first place.

>>50825879
>beings of the Warp are immortal and ageless
>beings

>>50825863
> and then goes on to contradict that by claiming chaos is eternal.

There is no contradiction. Something born into a place with no linear time is effectively eternal.

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>>50825874
>yfw a single X-Parasite has the potential to fuck over the entire galaxy

>>50825879
The lore also states the warp requires psyker farts and that chaos entities have strict birth dates and are unable to affect the warp prior to them.

>>50825895
Warp beings are observably affected by linear tine, as slaanesh proves.

>>50825895
But anon, can't daemons be permanently killed?

>>50825882
Actually, the Chaos Gods predate their own creations and Slaanesh created himself.

No linear time, remember?

>>50825226

I thought that was still canon. Snotlings just degenerated as an orkish race and are now dumb, but weren't during the War in Heaven. Or did that get retconned?

>>50825920
Old Ones

>>50825908
>Warp beings are observably affected by linear tine, as slaanesh proves.

Wrong.

Slaanesh manipulated the Eldar into birthing him and Slaanesh was present among the gods in the elevation of Be'lakor thousands of years (possible millions of years) before the Fall.

>>50825916
Only under difficult circumstances.

>>50825728
That seems contradictory with chaos codexes and known warp mechanics.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Immaterium

>>50825961
For fuck sake don't use the warhammer wiki.

That piece of fluff is one of the oldest things in the setting.

>>50825947
Incorrect. The eldar birthed slaanesh, who has shown no historical influence before his birth.

Warp entities being timeless would negate the entirety of 40k lore, rendering the emperor never-existant because shamans wouldn't exist in the first place.

>>50825977
So one of the pieces of fluff least affected by chaos coddling retcons and poor writing.

>>50825942

Yeah but I seem to remember it having been "Old Ones made the Krorks, who included Brain Boys who ran the race". I guess I'm just wrong though, hard to keep track of 20 years of retcons.

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Also we have confirmation that before the Warp of Heaven the Warp was infested with Chaos daemons. The Old Ones constructed massive planet sized prisons to contain and imprison the daemons (source Traitor's Hate/Angel's Blade).

Be'lakor himself has memories of the first Necrontyr necropolis and the first Eldar homeworlds.

The Warp gives no damn about linear time.

>>50825942
The Old Ones are called Brain Boyz by the few orks who "remember" (or care) how they were born.

>>50825987
Are the shamans still canon?

So, I think we have come to a conclusion. Chaos was originally a balanced faction constraibed by time and the materium, but their players were so whiny and coddled that modern chaos was retconned into being super immortal whatevers.

>>50825987
>Incorrect. The eldar birthed slaanesh, who has shown no historical influence before his birth.

Actually, Slaaneshi daemons influenced the Eldar into birthing him (Source Farseer and MoM novel).

Also Slaanesh created Be'lakor WAAAAAAY before the fall. And Be'lakor was his active champion in the galaxy for a long time.

>Warp entities being timeless would negate the entirety of 40k lore,

Wrong. See >>50826015

>rendering the emperor never-existant because shamans wouldn't exist in the first place.

Path of Heaven says that the Chaos Gods hid within the depths of the lowest layers of the Warp and are now emerging.

But that doesn't matter because the Emperor wasn't created by the shamans. He is a Perpetual. Perpetuals are subspecies of the human race.

>>50826066
Nah.

>>50826001
>>50826077
When Chaos wins a campaign book, you can talk about coddling.

>>50826082
Emperor was explicitly shamans anon

>>50826082
But why does the big E have ludicrous beyond old ones tier warp abilities and such? Being a perpetual doesn't give that?

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>>50826066
Technically Kitten is canon. Maybe they are.

>>50826123
Old fluff.

The HH version is different. He is a Perpetual like Olly Pius. Both know each other and Olly loathes the Emperor.

>>50826109
Just because they are losers doesn't mean they are't coddled.
This thread is prime proof of that, as every one of their weaknesses got retconned due to coddling.

>>50826066
According to some gits from BL, Emps is now just a Perpetual who decided to change humankind from the shadow and that most of his abilities he got from conning the Chaos Gods (The last part is said by a daemon who Horus saves his ass from a seal)
I prefer the Shamans though, or at least a mix of both.

>>50826143
Man, everything in 40k involving chaos has been retconned to make chaos scarier, hasn't it?

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>>50826127
Autism

>>50826127
Perpetuals are born with unique abilities and gifts but the Emperor needed more power to secure the future of mankind.

The Emperor went to a planet called Molech and used a unique Warp portal to travel to the court of the Chaos Gids. He bargained with the Chaos Gods for power and knowledge to empower himself and create the Primarchs. Source is "Vengeful Spirit"

>>50826151
>The last part is said by a daemon who Horus saves his ass from a seal

Actually, it was said again by a Perpetual ally of the Emperor who went with him to Molech and huided him out of the Warp after he completed the deal with the Chaos Gods.

>>50826161
Yep. They thought that what was implied wasn't scary enough, now they are shoving "WE'Z CHAOS BOYZ IZ INVENCIBLE FOR EVA!" in your face.

>>50826186
So the Emperor negotiated himself more powerful than a single chaos god? How? How can he trick the chaos gods into making him so fucking powerful?

Sounds dumb.

>>50826144
Nope, getting pumped up means nothing if you cannot act with your power. Chaos is only being built up so it would be more impressive for the Imperials to knock them down.

So you get the David vs Goliath narrative going. Imperium spoiling knows no limits.

>>50826222
Actually, he is not stronger than the Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods can fuck him up if he gets into direct contact with them.

You really should start reading the HH series.

>>50826228
Anon, chaos is just as spoiled as the imperium. You are two crying toddlers whining tommy has a bigger toy than you do.

Meanwhile, every other faction would kill to get scraps of what you get.

>>50821721
>*Mic drop*
>>>/lgbt/

>>50826236
>Actually, he is not stronger than the Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods can fuck him up if he gets into direct contact with them.
Well 40k got a lot more boring now. I liked the old fluff better
>You really should start reading the HH series.
Everything you just explained to me indicates the complete opposite

>>50826256
Yeah, I gotta say, every bit of new fluff I hear sounds like a pile of shit.
The old fluff worked way better.

>>50826236
>reading Horus Heresy
>Pages and Pages of Daddy issues and Soap Opera Problems with M. Night Shamalan-tier "twists" thrown in that contradict established Lore

The telltale sign of a Chaos fag is treating that shit any better than one would treat a badly written lemon you would find on fanfiction.net

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>>50823661
>Necrons have a cyberhateboner against Chaos
>Tyranids blot out warpstuff and don't care about Chaos in any way
>Dark Eldar really don't want to be murderraped by Slaanesh
>all in the same group with Chaos
It makes a bit sense if you don't want to have groups for every faction, but there's no plausible in-game explanation for this.
Or is there?

>>50826247
I would trade it all if we are allowed to win in a SINGLE DAMN BOOK.

>>50826349
Forgot to add the Ork.

Half of the Orks were ordered by Ghaz to go work for Abaddon and other were meant to go fight the Tau. Ork players decided to say fuck that and went on their own adventure called the "Green Kroosde" and conquered some planets.

Necrons actually were meant to work against Chaos to destroy the blackstone fortresses. I think they destroyed one before the other one eliminated their fleets.

Tyranids players did nothing noteworthy.

Dark Eldar I think sided with the Eldar.

funniest thing that the Tau were left alone so the Tau players continued to earn territory in their little corner until IIRC they reached 200%+

Everyone did their own thing without care for the disorder/order thing. The only alliance of sorts was the Eldar and Imperium vs Chaos

>>50826356
At least you get retconned fluff superiority.

Poor tyranids and orks should have conquered the universe dozens of times but never get to.

>>50826488
>orks

They got the Beast series which made them look good.

>>50826356
>A Farseer sucefully saves his/her people of a big danger without direct aid from mon'keighs or no aid at all.
>A Necron defeats some asshat AdMech who wanted to loot his people.
>A Ork Warboss proves he is best by massacring a free-for-all battle between humies, spiky boyz and nids.
>Some Tau with the aid of auxiliars sucefully saves a race of the Imperial Guard and the DeathWatch.

Those would be nice to see.

>>50825947
>slaanesh manipulated
Oh, not again this 'just as planned' shit.
When that 'chaos' will be removed from the lore already?

>>50826552
When they allowed to win something which means they will no longer use that plot device.

>>50825462
Nobody thinks this is okay.

>>50826693
Reading how the DeathWatch got their assess kicked by the Jokareo in the former codex will be one of my best moments in this year.

>40k's terrible writing, innumerable retcons, and shit poor balance make everyone mad
Here is where I would shill for another system if I actually played wargames.

>>50825462
Every imperium player I've met over the age of 15 rolls their eyes whenever they're told something like "Calgar cockslapped a bloodthirster" or "Draigo exists"

The thing we universally agree upon is that the writing is stupid.

>>50810836
It would be armageddon

>>50826507
>which made them look good
>we want to be primarchs
>orks are shit so let's make them super orks
>even at the nadir of orkish power, they're still less relevant than dah great enemeh
Nah. The beast series is shit.

The Orks have Deff Skwadron. And that's it.

>>50823085

not to mention the greatest farseer in the galaxy jobbing to a literal who

>>50821682
>and their reward for their effort was Eldrad being killed off and devoured by a Demon of Slannesh.
Why fucking bother?

>>50816057
...no? It's positively ancient.

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>>50826236
>You really should start reading the HH series.

That's funny considering the LATEST HH book, Master of Mankind, explicitly fucking states that the Emperor is INVULNERABLE to the Chaos Gods.

Faggot.

>>50825848
>Chaos
>Not having all weakness retconned away
Oh no, nothing can be more threatening than gw's precious chaos baby.

>>50827615
Goes to
>>50827497
No idea how that first link happened.

>>50811724
6/10, kek'd

>>50825669

WARHAMMER 40,000 IS NOT A MOTHER FUCKING SETTING

ITS A BACKGROUND TO TELL THE STORIES OF YOUR LITTLE PLASTIC MEN THROUGH

HOLY FUCKING SHIT GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD

>>50827885
>ITS A BACKGROUND TO TELL THE STORIES
In what way is this not a setting?
Because that sounds like the definition of a setting to me.

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>>50819104
This is absolutely great!

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Honestly surprised this thread was around as long as it was before he got to it.

The fact that almost the whole thread from that point was just people arguing with him is less surprising.

>>50827929

a setting implies that its a living breathing world full of life and with plotlines and forshadowing and shit

its not, its a stage you set up so you can wack toy soldiers together with your nerd friends

the fandoms obsession with advancing the story is stupid, they never realise that there is only one way the "story" can advance, in a downward spiral

anyone who forgets that should just look at fantasy

>>50827497
>yfw Emperor Text to Speech is canon

>>50828451
Actually the story in Fantasy had the option of going up and continuing and that option was actually chosen in Storm of Chaos. Then GW retconned it because they couldn't let Poor baby Chaos get upstaged.

>>50823270
I like it. So of course GW won't actually do it. Please pretty please GW??

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>>50828361
Did you see the assassin thread? It was exactly the same.

I hate how one bad apple can spoil it all, so easily, so obviously.

>>50831984
So sorta TW:WH?

>>50826585
Abaddon won the Gothic War though.

>>50825728
This.

>He plays Chaos
>He's never read any Moorcock books that GW literally stole Chaos from.
>He's never read what worlds or dimensions ruled by Chaos look like.

>>50825863
Chaos is fantastically written. Just not by GW.

>>50833619
Then by who? Alfa Legion? /tg/?

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>>50833633
Michael Moorcock.

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>>50826015
>>50826082
>bela'cuck

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>>50833719
>Power of Rock > Chaos

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>>50833585
Kinda arguable. He was driven from the sector, but escaped with some of what he'd come for.

(This page is over 15 years old, but the only thing that's been explicitly retconned is the destruction of Tarantis, which now took hours rather than weeks. The ultimate outcome of the war has never changed.)

>>50816183
Hey friend, lot of humans out there

>>50827497
>Master of Mankind, explicitly fucking states that the Emperor is INVULNERABLE to the Chaos Gods.

No, it doesn't. The Emperor was going to be fucked up by a single Undivided Daemon.

>>50827885
No, 40K is a big story and is trying to tell stories. Stories that are not not interesting.

>>50833719
>posts a lore piece that's not him

1) Be'lakor cannot into portals
2) Be'lakor cannot be hurt by physical things even if they are holy as long as he sees them
3) Be'lakor at this stage in the timeline would have killed all Lizardmen present with a flick of his hand because he has the magical power of multiple Slaan.

>>50834077
The Gothic sector ravaged. Imperial naval bases (BSF) exploded or claimed.

Abaddon only gained from this endeavour but I guess truth doesn't matter for you because you think Necrodermis is not living metal . You monstrous liar.

>>50835299
A section of that page posted is literally called 'Abaddon's Defeat' and still chaosfags are gonna claim 'nuh-uh, just as planned?

woooow

>>50837144
That's from Imperium's perspective though.

>>50827011

>The beast series is shit

U wot m8, you pushed the Imperium and Vulcans shit in, what more do you want

>>50838329
This. The Imperium got it's shit kicked in and claimed that Abaddon not getting everything he came for was a victory.

>>50826449
For as much as people bitch about that campaign, it did canonize the Third Sphere for the Tau empire, and indirectly contributed to their plot armor.

>>50820840

>abbadon didn't lose those 12 other times, he was only pretending

He didn't pretend. He consistently met his goals of stealing powerful new artefacts and expanding his army. I'm sorry you didn't read the foreword on the setting, but Chaos have always been the end game and Orks/Nids mere mid-bosses.

>>50821602

He became a shard. Plot advancement would involve a change in status quo, not just reframing the same objective.

>>50821682
>Eldrad being killed off and devoured by a Demon of Slannesh.

It wasn't a demon. It was the big dog himself, and to be fair there was heavy implications that Eldrad had a contingency plan what with his spirit stones still remaining unsullied. It could've been build up for a major keikaku, but I guess we'll never know.

>>50823085
>In Death Masque GW literally murdered the Eldar race and dashed to dust TEN FUCKING YEARS of story of the Eldar story build up just to hype their new Deathwatch release and character.

You haven't even read that fluff have you? If you have you're lying. The ritual never reached it's apex, therefore no draining of ICs. Ynnead was not destroyed, but rather partially manifested as a shard that then shot off into space. It's an obvious set up for a 'find the macguffin' angle, but /tg/ chimped out and did it's usual thing of putting dank memes ahead of actually reading the fucking fluff.

>>50839516
>b-b-but it wasn't pretending if GW shoves in Inconsequential goals into the Crusades for Little baby Abbygail to achieve

You can keep shouting endgame all you want Carnac, you'll always be a faggot shilling a shit faction.

>>50827011
>even at the nadir of orkish power

I think you mean zenith. Nadir is the lowest point.

>>50834077

So the Imperium lost all 6 of its most powerful weapons, 2 of which were added to Abaddon's resources? Are you even fucking trying Imperium?

>>50839642
Butt that guy is not Carnac.

>>50839640
Don't lie to me, anon.

http://thegoodthebadtheinsulting.blogspot.com/2016/08/warhammer-40000-death-masque-eldar.html

>>50839642
Lets see what's reality here. We all know that GW wants to make Chaos the ultimate threat and will focus on it in the coming months maybe years.

So why are some anons disbelieving of this? Are they xenofags? Are they Imperialfags? We need to know what is the source of all this negativity that pops up whenever Chaos gets a release.

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>>50839642

I'm not Carnac you nonce. I'm just not deluded and capable of reading. It's sad you have to lie to yourself about a space men stories. Sadder still you not only give Carnac replies like a mongoloid incapable of ignoring bait, but you have to resort to bringing him up when you can't prove a point.

>Inconsequential goals

Yup, losing all your blackstone fortresses and handing two of them to the enemy won't have any ramifications. Not like those will play any part in the final battle.

Reminder that just when Cadia is about to fall, the Harlequins come to aid in the battle with the Laughing God.

You heard it here first.

>>50839923

>Cites some faggots terrible blog
>Not the actual fluff

Obviously, because if you actually read it you'd have to admit you're full of shit.

>>50840014
Post the text then because from my quick reading it seems that the spirits were drained to the moons sands. Ynnead manifested but couldn't maintain its form except for a single star-like thing that shot into space.

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OP here, any actual discussion is pure coincidence. I never intended to pursue a serious topic with this thread.

>>50840306
Don't lie, anon. I am OP.

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>>50840358
You shut your goddamn face anon! There's only one OP, and the OP be me!

>>50839964
I don't even play and I hate chaos for being poorly written and having an even more annoying fanbase than imperials, which is hard.

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>>50839987
>I-I'm not Carnac, I just use shitty, unpopular bits of Lore haphazardly shoved in to justify why people should respect Chaos!
Carnac has transcended beyond the boundaries of a mere autistic and has become a state of mind. And Whatever bits "But GW said so!" you bring up only furthers my point. You are still a faggot shilling a shit faction and neither of you will ever be respected by the fanbase. Now run along and play with your Warp Spawn.

>>50841986
Not him but replying like hours later to a saging thread is the epitome of cowardice and autism.

>>50842065
cont'ed...

Also don't you date ever use a picture of my waifu!

>>50842065
>looking at the time of replies on a Mongolian Doodle board and interpreting them to mean something
>Accuses other people of Autism

It may surprise you, but normal people actually do things like, eat, sleep, and work, that prevents them from being glued to a 4chan thread 24/7.

>>50842135
This is the age of internet. You have access to it everywhere you go.

But that's not the issue. I am just amazed at the pettiness needed to make that post knowing that the opposing anon will never read it. You are not a normal person, anon.

>>50842176
>Implyong people are obligated to invest time into making sure their arguements are concluded properly
>Implying people don't come back to check on threads they posted on after a while
>Still relying on making his deep psychological analysis based on 4chan post timings.

If anyone's being a petty autist here it's you.

Also
>Being a waifufag
Neck yourself.

>>50842252
I would reply to you but I am afraid that you leave the thread and return back when the thread is one step away from being deleted to make an inane reply. I don't have time for that.

But seriously don't post mah waifu. She doesn't deserve to be paired up with such bad posts. Thanks.

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>>50842318
>I don't have time to reply to you
>But I have enough time to judge what kind of person you are through a Mongolian doodle forum
>Also stop posting mah Waifu REEEEEEEEEEEEE

Go to the Anime Dimension and never return.

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Stop saying 'Imperium' when you faggots actually mean 'Space Marines'

IG and Admech get their shit kicked in all the time. Sisters don't but that's mainly because sisters are almost nonexistent.

>>50819104
>Inquisition letter written in curly, fine lettering on thick parchment, with a seal included.
>Administratum letter typewriter written out with a big stamp
>Adeptus Mechanicus letter printed out with a readable sans serif font and mechanicus standard layout, with secret binary shitposting at the bottom of the letter and the page both watermarked and printed with the Ad Mech logo

you can tell who the IT dept is in the Imperium

>>50842547

Finally, someone posts best girl Yui instead of this Azusa and Mio garbage.

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capped for all eternity

>>50835237
>defeated by edgy oc not!Cain

>>50810836
No GW, we will never stop this meme no matter what you write for little darling Abbygail. Now go back and either accept that he'll always be a joke, or replace with a more interesting character with personality like Kharn.

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>>50835280
>this much denial
Rocks fall, Be'lacuck dies. No amount of damage control, butthurt or denial will change this

pic related:
>this kills the daemon fucking shit