/btg/ Battletech General!

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>>50739885
Look out, Urbie!

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>>50739885
PART TWO!: -

Field Manual Comstar.PDF
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ja3z2n1goe12623/Field_Manual_Comstar.PDF
8604 - The Spider and the Wolf
https://www.mediafire.com/?3d9brfrkj9vnhka
Aerotech 2 - Revised
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ivqhzog2wyoegxo/Battletech_35011_-_Aerotech_2_Revised.pdf
hexpacks 2&3:

Battletech Hexpacks
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3o59kirzzz6znac/BattleTech_Hexpacks.7z
also introbox stuff:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/l22yrlkk9buzuzl/BattleTech_Intro_Box_Set.7z

Historical War of 3039
https://www.scribd.com/doc/23569748/35014-Historical-War-of-3039

Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries is coming, set during the Third Succession War.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz8Y1V8gy1A&feature=youtu.be

Heavy Metal Archive (OLD)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/8so68gbw3yga4cb/2016-12-11_HeavyMetal-Archive-OLD.rar

Fan made TRO 3063:
battletechreader.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-fan-made-technical-readout-3063.html
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/8o30486fony5f/Fan_TRO_3063

... also Butte Hold

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More tophat; more power!
>>50739908
"You'll never catch me doin' 30kph!"

>>50734052
The Blackjack's fixed jump jets are one of the few cases of hardmounted equipment on an omni that I think works. On a medium like that I think being able to jump around is always useful.

>>50740042
I guess the same could be said with the Avatar and his twin MedLas

>>50740202
Just almost, in my opinion. If they were ER ML I'd be 100% fine with them.

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>>50739908
It's okay. Everything is okay.

Because I'm an UrbanMech.

>>50739839
Comissioner here
Yes, based on custom stats too.
Iirc it is 4 srm6, two light ppc with capacitor and robotic cockpit

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There was supposed to be a fourth Urbie in this picture but I couldn't fit it all in.

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Still looking at the first gen IS omnis, would the Sunder be better off with a SFE and 3/5 movement?

It would give the thing like 44 tons of pod space.

>>50740559
I love your art.
There needs someday to be a pic of a company of Urbies dressed as the 1985 Chicago Bears with an Atlas off to the side with Mike Ditka's mustache photoshopped, not drawn, but photoshopped onto it.
... And maybe one Valkyrie made up to look like Walter Payton.
Just sayin'.

>>50741268
Correction: Maybe a Phoenix Hawk or an Assassin, something swifter, as Walter Payton.

>>50740700
39 tons actually. 46 if it went 3/5 with an XL.

It might be, the biggest issue would be the smaller engine means more DHS need to be allocated, 5 instead of the 1 at 4/6, which offsets the space you gain from yanking the XL, or else those extra sinks need to be removed which would then potentially offset the gain in free weight. Ultimately it depends on the particulars of a config. Most of the canon ones could work, except maybe the B, but the B is kind lousy.

>>50741337
Oh I dropped the "fixed" sinks past 10 when I lowered the speed to get 44 tons. Better off, I think.

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>>50740700
I did a series of production "Mark 2s" for them (treating the originals as simply prototypes), including what you suggested for the Sunder.

>Black Hawk-KU, dropped the fixed equipment to yield 24 tons of pod space
>Firestarter, dropped fixed equipment and added half a ton of armor to yield 20 tons pod space
>Avatar, dropped fixed equipment for 37 tons pod space total
>Owens, no fixed equipment, DHS, 10.5 tons pod space
>Strider, no fixed equipment, DHS, 13 tons pod space

The Blackjack and Raptor were the only ones I kept as they were.

>>50741268
Urbies playing poker like the old painting of dogs playing poker.

Dammit, I wasn't paying attention.

>>50742557

>>50738729
>Game-breaking? Almost certainly. Something I never, ever want to see? Definitely.

This. There should be a maximum movement cap on Battletech units. Something like "no more than 10-12 hexes per turn" for Mechs and 12-15 hexes for vees. That keeps people from being able to freely reposition and attack rear armor every time, at will, like LAMs do.

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>>50735367
As others mentioned for commission work.

-Matt Plog if you want cheap lineart. I don't know why he does this, he's worth a lot more.

-David White if you really like his style and will pay up for the lineart.

-Myself if you want to drop significant money on color art. Color paintings are my specialty so that's the only place I can edge Plog out, but the price jump is still big. I win simply because no one else does it :D

>>Clearly, what's needed is a novel-length battletech fanfiction entirely about the life and career of Atleast Itsnot and his mercenaries

SOMEONE MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

>>50743729
wut

>>50743729

i never knew i wanted this before

>>50743474
That would be me. If I were to ask for a quote, would I message you on DA?

I have a question I reckon you folks could probably answer.

I dled megamek the other day and set up a campaign for myself, gave myself a mech lance to start with, was having fun fleshing everything out, and then on my first contract all the scenarios I got were the chase scenario, which seems to be completely unwinnable, even with the double enemy vehicles option turned off. When I try starting from scratch and making a new campaign it's the same story, every time. Chase, chase, chase and the occasional Hold the Line scenario.

My question is, is there a way to stop it from generating that particular scenario? I looked in the options but cant find any way to. Granted I'm terrible with computers and its a small miracle I even got that shit to run at all, I still spent a good hour or so fucking with the options and I'm stumped. Help would be appreciated.

>>50745182
Yep, DA is where I prefer to do business.

I also forgot to mention two other DA guys that do BT commissions:

-spooky777 does scenes using MWO models as a basis. He's doing official work now.

-Colourbrand does a lot of combined arms pieces. I don't think anyone else has done so many vehicle paintings.

>>50745228
I tend to say "sod this" to the chase scenarios and just reload the previous save. Having an enemy as homicidal as Princess deploy right behind your 'Mechs in a chase is bullshit.

You probably could adjust the bot tactics to the cowardly and "run away" direction to amplify their need to bugger off to the north even quicker, or kick Princess out of the game and take control of the enemy yourself to send them running north.

Oh, and wait til you get to a "civilian help" mission. Unless you take control of the civilian side yourself, you'll end up with a group of bloodthirsty civilians in lumberjack 'Mechs and technicals charging hostile assault units.

>>50745228
Oh and I forgot, you probably should do a couple of further adjustments before firing up your campaign. Whilst doing the initial campaign options setup, in the Against the Bot tab set skill level to Green or Ultra Green. This cuts back on the lances the bot will throw at you, so it's not always a company or a reinforced company against your lance. The other is to set enemy lance distribution to 1 Mech, 0 Mixed, 1 Vehicle.

And you can always reinforce your own units. When you have a battle pending, advance to the day of the battle, select the TO&E tab, right-click on any unassigned lance (the one that has to be in the fight will have a grey background) and select "deploy unit", then the impending battle. On the pre-battle screen you'll see how many turns it'll take for the reinforcements to arrive. This is dependent on the general speed of the reinforcing lance, their number of jump-capable 'Mechs, and the Strategy skill of the lance leader (each point will shave off one round). A fast and jumpy medium lance under a Strategy-capable boss will therefore deploy a lot faster than a lumbering assault lance with a non-Strategy boss. This will help when your lance of bugs faces a hostile assault lance in a stand-up fight.

>>50745298
So that's my only option? Just reload until something that isn't chase comes up? Damn, I was hoping maybe there was some way to fuck with the settings and just eliminate that shit entirely. Oh well, thanks anyway.

>>50745411
And yeah, I already messed with the campaign settings a bit. I found a helpful list of things to adjust for a first time player, I just set the skill level to green though, I didn't know it affected how many mechs and vehicles it gave the opponent though, thanks.

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>>50745480
>So that's my only option

Yep. On tabletop, chases tend to be more forgiving, but Princess is homicidal. If you end up losing the initiative in deployment, you'll end up having an enemy 'Mech right beside your units, and Princess tends to err on the side of "blood for the blood god" over the "is forced to retreat" side. If you ever punch out of your unit, expect to see Princess expend some fire on your hapless Mechwarrior.

Pic related. This is from a Star League cache mission, where the tech (with really poor P/G) didn't hit a single enemy 'Mech in the firefight. However, the moment I shot one enemy driver out of his giant robot, the motherfucker does this.

>>50743474
>I don't know why he does this, he's worth a lot more.

He outcompetes by doing quality work for a lower price, and he can work fast. For example, Muninn has paid him for...8-10 pieces? And iirc he just sent off more a few days ago. So he's gotten $400+ that the rest of you didn't. I dunno about anyone other than you or white, but I assume there's a reason Muninn's not using anyone else right now. Or if he is, hasn't mentioned it.

>>50740295

Thanks to the wonders of CGL's bone-heade decisions you can't even swap them over to ERs without breaking it as an Omni, even though it's a Class A refit.

>>50740700

I'm actually mostly fine with the Sunder's base set-up, and that's from someone who often gripes about the shit designs Dracs get lumbered with. The changes I'd be tempted to make are actually giving it Endo (a surprising number of configs can tolerate this) or bumping it to 95 tons, also with a possible Endo swtich since the arm-mounted DHS can move to the engine there.

My bigger issue is why, in Tech Readout: Gausswalls, Gausswalls Everywhere, the Prime config which is supposed to be by far the most common version, uses exclusively 3025-era weaponry when it could have 1 GR, 2 ER PPCs, 3 MLs and then either C3 or an additional DHS depending on how you feel about that.

Side note is that a 4/6 XL 90+ tonner is at least its own thing, if you make it a 3/5 mover with that much pod space you're introducing the Hauptman early. Which is not necessarily a bad thing but I find it helps to try and keep Omnis a bit further apart in that regard.

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>>50745680
That's the thing though, he's gone way past competing, in fact I don't think he's intentionally doing that. The idea of competition isn't quite what most think in the art world.
He could charge double and he'd still be undercutting me, even triple and the value gain would be worth it over my work.
You mention $400, and that amount of money is peanuts, you have to pull that much in within a week or less to live. Now imagine he gets paid $1200 for the same work, that's better, though still cheap.

Plog "can" afford to be cheap, because yes he is very fast, but that doesn't mean he has to.
He did pull the btgro art gigs from me, no big deal for me as I will just do other work I have available. He hasn't really earned more, btg has just paid less, and I lost nothing.

>>50742578
>This. There should be a maximum movement cap on Battletech units. Something like "no more than 10-12 hexes per turn" for Mechs and 12-15 hexes for vees. That keeps people from being able to freely reposition and attack rear armor every time, at will, like LAMs do.
>I want to kill light mechs; the post
learn to play

>>50746166

Light mechs are already pointless, so what's the problem?

Also, the RNG stops working when stuff is getting +4 and +5 TMMs. Things should never be outright unhittable at medium range from a stationary shooter. That's bad game design.

>>50746222
>hard to hit
>pointless

>light mechs
>pointless
What are you, Lyran?

>>50746166

He's obviously meming, but two quick things.

1: Most BT metas I've seen revolve around 'Mechs, with occasional BA and vees with ASF so rare as to be non-existent. Dumping 18/27 (or faster) units into that environment seriously fucks things up. If, like Cincy, you're already in a meta that emphasises AA capability and artillery they have much less of an impact.

2: I've had the dedicated AirMech mode conversation with a friend of mine once and while I started with "I guess they could do that..." she immediately followed it with "Awesome, and because they aren't LAMs they'll be able to use XL Engines, and because they're purpose-built for AirMech mode they won't suffer all the accuracy and piloting penalties of AirMech mode! They won't even need to spend tonnage for being built that way, the reduced ground movement will be enough of a penalty!"

And no. Just no.

>>50745680
Plog did raise his prices lately, but he's still half of shimmy for complete line art vs a sketch.

I don't know why he charges what he does but I'm happy to pay it. Not only is his price very good but he's quite professional. if you want to commission fan art, he won't take half and disappear, won't half-ass it after 6 months of you bugging him, etc.

That's a big reason why I'm not really going with a bunch of the other DA guys.

>>50746098
>You mention $400, and that amount of money is peanuts, you have to pull that much in within a week or less to live. Now imagine he gets paid $1200 for the same work, that's better, though still cheap.

$400 isn't peanuts and $1200 for the work he's done would be excessively expensive. I don't know what his economic situation is but clearly it works for him. If it weren't for Plog, we'd either be getting shitty art or this project would be kinda dead.

>He hasn't really earned more, btg has just paid less, and I lost nothing.

He potentially earned more than he otherwise would have; I don't know what his commission slate looks like to be able to say. The impression that I get is that he slots /btg/RO work into a few free hours here and there.

The only reason you didn't lose is because you weren't willing to work that much anyways - the opportunity cost is too high. But if you were willing to work more, you would have made more (again, unless you have other work filling up even expanded capacity). In other words, if you were a worker on a part time job with an hourly wage of $20, and your boss offered you 20 more hours for $10, you could increase your total earning by $200 - but only if you want to work another 20 hours. You may have a second part time job for $15, so you turn it down. Or you might choose to work 60 hours and make an extra $500 between the two.

This Intro to Micro lecture brought to you by /TG/U

>>50746289
>Dumping 18/27 (or faster) units into that environment seriously fucks things up.

This.

I'm not dedicated memeposter up there, but I'd be OK with mechs and vees limited in their combat speed a bit. The Dasher goes 15 hexes using normal movement, so if that was as fast as Mechs could go I'd be OK with that as a limit (and MASC being something that can break it because of being MASC).

Vees are trickier. I don't think VTOLs should have a limit at all, but I do think that all the ground vee types should have speed limits. Something like 7/11 for tracks, 8/12 for wheeled (and they then get the +1 pavement bonus), and something like 12/18 for hovers.

Memeing aside, the core point in >>50746222 that high TMMs fuck up the RNG curve is correct. Outright unhittable things should be vanishingly rare as long as line of sight exists at all. If we're OK with shitting on LAM's because they've got so much movement they're unhittable and can always choose where and when to attack, then it stands to reason we should be OK with other types of units which do the exact same thing.

>>50745707
I'm on my phone and can't do it myself, but could I bother you to make a sheet for a Sunder confit with that GR, ER PPC setup you mentioned?

>>50745653
So screwing around in the game a bit more, I'm just reloading until I get better scenarios like you said, it feels a little cheesy but at least I dont have to play chase any more, thank god for that.

I am having an inordinate amount of fun just on the management aspect though. Especially given the randomized portaits for my personell. My captain is Clint Eastwood and one of my techs is Fred from Angel.

I don't know why that amuses me so much, but it does.

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>>50746594

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>>50746594

Not Muninn, obviously, but I've got a config that's essentially the same thing.

C3 Slave and a 3rd ton of Guass ammo are what I do with the extra 2 tons. I can live with a couple points of overheat from firing the ERs and the GR.

>>50746763
>Not Muninn, obviously

Wait what

>>50746937

Ohshit, they're onto me/us.

RUN

>>50746944
BTW, did you ever get that email, or still nothing? I resent it.

>>50746944
No, I'm Muninn!

>>50746958

I did. I just don't have any followup commentary. There wasn't a question asked. Was there supposed to be one?

So is there maybe a non shitty hexgrid wargame for battletech or is that it?

>>50747016
Uh...I'll have to check.

>>50747064
Use more punctuation, is the 'non shitty' supposed to modify 'hexgrid' or 'wargame'?

>>50747103

Be less autistic, or does your 'autism' only come out on '4chan'?

>>50747203
Only on the internet, where I don't have the benefit of facial ques and tone to figure out what you mean.

>>50747064
To answer your question, there is the core Battletech, Alphastrike, Battletech: A Time of War, and then there are the different scales of Battletech that people don't play much like Strategic Scale, Aerospace scale, and Space scale. Technically, AToW is called "personal scale" but it has effectively a whole different rule set, so it's considered a different game.

Does that clear things up?

>>50747064
Oh, you wanted non-hexgrid games in BT universe? Inner Sphere in Flames (basically Interstellar scale) is kind of like Risk in the level of abstraction. Also Alpha Strike is miniatures rules, with a hex map being optional.

>>50747910
>is miniatures rules
And that's important to point out, you don't need hexmaps to play standard BT either.

>>50747966
Yep, this. You can get the rules for free from CGL and it's just a conversion for the appropriate rules. Play CBT like 40K, needing rulers and things like that.

Hi guys, I've seen that a native to these threads named CampaignAnon had made a lot of Perseus configurations. Could someone post them?

And to add, are they based on the original Perseus? Because I've also seen a fair bit of talk about how the mech would be better suited if its internals were rearranged a tad (leg lasers and such).

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>>50748073
>asking for CA's Perseii

>>50748073
Someone post the 8 Light Rifle Perseus.

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>>50748073
>meddling with a canon machine

How dare you change perfection

I'm trying to make some mechs that are low-BV but still decent, what weapons should I look at to do the job?

>>50749223
Vindicator

>>50749223
MMLs, for one.

>>50749236
Not what mechs, what individuals weapons. He's designing them.

I've been lurking the general for a while, and been looking at picking up the game. I'm familiar with the games, and have a quick question is the King Crab any decent on the tabletop?

Mainly asking from the video game experience, as the King Crab clicked with me on the vidya, but I'm fully aware that the Battletech is vastly different from Mechwarrior.

>>50749243
The Vindie is a good example of the combination of weapons for what he wants.

>>50749363
Yeah, King Crabs can be pretty decent. In 3025, they're a rare double AC/20 carrier. Later on you get advanced tech variants that are pretty solid.

>>50749363
KCs love to KB though. Some people really like them, I'm not a huge fan and I know I've had some seriously bad dice rolls cost me way more than they shoulda.

>>50749223
>what weapons should I look at to do the job?
The LBX-10 and basic PPC are old standbys for that sort of mech. The LBX-5 can also work, and the LL is also a good choice, and in later years, the MML and LPPC join the roster

>>50739885
Urbies-in-tophats would work if you had Dire-Urbies and Slender-Urbies, too.
Slender-Urbie: creapy-slender forearm and hand with a thin hatchet.
Dire-Urbie: more close range firepower. "You didn't just come around that corner thinking you outgunned me did you? Lol."
Sniper-Urbie?: 1 ridiculously long range weapon for long range shots from rooftop or the long sight lines down straight streets.

>>50748073
>>50748124
As someone new, can anyone explain to me the appeal of the Perseus?

>>50749469

There really isn't one, it's just a meme.

Pretty much every mech from the FWL (which isn't the Awesome) is unmitigated trash, and so they chose a clear and obvious piece of trash to artificially popularize as a statement.

>>50749417
Thanks mate. I was hoping it wouldn't be utter trash and pretty solid seems good in my book. Mainly because I know MW meta isn't BT meta

>>50749427
>KCs love to KB though
I have no idea what that means. I'm been reading though the rules, but not /that/ familiar with them.

So what's the point of arm mounted weapons? It seems like their only benefit is they can flip. Shouldn't they at least have a wider firing angle like in the game?

>>50749545
King Crabs tend to be fairly explody, be warned. They usually rely on either explosive weapons (like Gauss Rifles) or heavily ammo dependent weapons (AC/20s, LRMs, etc). Their propensity to run XL engines alongside all this makes for a mech that dies surprisingly easily (ammo bomb, side torso destruction, center torso destruction, Gauss detonations, etc). They're not as tanky as they could be is what I'm getting at here.

>>50749512
The Wraith is breddy gud which is why it was given to the Capellans :(

>>50749545
Sorry about that, KB= kaboom, they esp pre case blow up, a big boom.

>>50749600

Eh, nothing that can carry a payload that qualifies as "scary" isn't going to be fragile or explody somehow anyway.

>>50749548
>Shouldn't they at least have a wider firing angle like in the game?
Uh, they do? Page 105 of Total Warfare. Diagram is labeled shit, but the Arms each get about 60 degrees more arc than torso mounted weapons do. Only way to cover your rear, besides the mess that is a rear-mounted gun or the rarity that is a turret.

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>>50749440
>Dire-Urbie: more close range firepower. "You didn't just come around that corner thinking you outgunned me did you? Lol."
How about this old thing I made?

>>50749512
Really? Ughh.

I was planning on playing FWL but now I'm not so sure.

What would be a good House to play?

>>50749673
I see now, and you're right about the diagram.

>>50749718
Depends on what you want. I play Feds (used to play Steiner before Fed Com civil war) but I will play "bad guy" like a battletech game of cops and robbers and be a big Drac or Cap ass to give my buddies something fun to play against.
I play others, but you only mentioned the houses.
One of the things like like to do with Feds is put characters stuck in mediums trying to work their way out of the machines to better gear.

>>50749774
Do the Feddies have good mechs?

>>50749718
FWL is fine, they're just a faction oriented towards teamwork and being more than the sum of their parts.

>>50749785
They have the best selection by a wide margin.

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>>50749785
Some, yes. Absolutely. However don't ever get stuck in their old variation of the Shadow Hawk. I think it's the 2D. It loses five tons of armor for another laser, an SRM2 with ammo and a couple of heat sinks. It's a paper tiger.
Otherwise they have nice things like the Devastator and Gunslinger assaults which are just mean incarnate. I also like their original Centurion more than the Griffin because it can fire it's LRMs and autocannon which does as much damage as the Griffin's PPC but with less heat problems. There's a lot more to work with and I like playing them for their machines as well as my Good Guy Roast Beef Sandwich American Fantasies.

What are the top tier jj mechs pre clan invasion?

>>50749896
Grasshopper. Accept no substitutions. Also Wolverine M (forgot the model number. I think 6M?)

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>>50748073
Sorry I fell asleep on the couch after screwing with Christmas decorations for 5 hours. (Note to self, watch the rest of the family and make sure they actually put the lights and other decorations away properly, and don't remove the labels)

To answer your question, I'll certainly post them.
>And to add, are they based on the original Perseus? Because I've also seen a fair bit of talk about how the mech would be better suited if its internals were rearranged a tad (leg lasers and such).
The ones I generally post here are based on the original, yes. I do have every one of these cloned on a modified chassis with ES in the legs, as well as experimental chassis with EndoComp and the like.

>>50748138
Next post. I'm too lazy to add it here.

>>50749469
It's a middling, if poorly laid out and expensive, omni. The XLFE gives it a lot of tonnage to work with, but the bad crit placement means you're stuck with middle weight ballistics and missile launchers, along with a large amount of one crit lasers to fill your tonnage out. I keep fiddling with it because I like to see if it's possible to make a lemon really work.

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>>50749896
I also like the Thunderbolt 5SE. I mentioned it before but I had a long campaign going where this was a machine that JUST WOULDN'T DIE. It escaped enormous trials and yeah, dice rolls, but it ate a lot of people's lunches.

>>50745228
Since no one's noted the AtB rules and GM mode, I'll go over those. For chase missions, if you're the Attacker, your units *always* deploy at the start of the game. If you're the Defender, your units deploy according to this formula: (12 turns - walk/cruise MP - an additional 1 if the unit jumps). Accordingly, you need to set this up for the bot too, which you can do in the lobby by right clicking on the lead bot unit and configuring it. This way you don't have a few trinaries deploying right in your face at the start of the game, and the enemy is staggered out behind you. Even one or two turns of lead can be a win in these situations.

The next option is, if you hate the Chase missions, regardless of which role you play, is to turn on GM mode and right click on the mission, and in the GM mode tree, there's an option to remove the scenario. I started doing that after the Atleast Itsnot campaign decided that an assault star needed to be chased by 45 mechs.

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>>50749934
Fuck, totally forgot the Light Rifle Perseus.

>>50745228
>chase

They're the main reason most of my lances are jump capable. Between that, seemingly gaussian map generation, and almost constant night fighting, jump jets and IJJ are a must-have.

If I don't think I can outrun them, I just eat the contract breach and don't play it. It's often better to go down by three points and lose nothing, than be guaranteed to go down by two points and lose your entire lance. It's already pretty bullshit that everything comes at you at random and you can't choose when to do certain missions like raids and probes.

>>50749617
Depends. A lot of them are using XL engines with ammo in the torsos. Even with CASE, while the 'mech may not be totally scrapped, it's done for the fight.

>>50749718
FWL is fine, just remember that SG LRMs are your friend (but will not make you any friends)

>>50749841
Steiner actually has the best.

How does one begin to get into the TT version of battletech, finding people who play, etc.

How does one go about finding people who play MegaMek, I have a hard time navigating the client with my limited knowledge,

>>50749890
>roast beef sandwiches
Where did the Arby's/roastie meme come from? Was Melissa a roastie or something? I'm sure she got around the Triad a few times.

>>50749934
Could you post the ones cloned with the ES moved?

>>50750350

Eh... a lot of the stuff they were given was as a means of providing that factory output to the Suns. Once the FedCom breaks down a lot of those lines disappear, either through battle damage or, seemingly, production licences being revoked.

The Suns also winds up with the best vehicle and BA forces.

>>50750422
There is the map in the OP, but probably your best bet is to try a local game shop. I'm having trouble finding IRL games too.

>>50750459
What? Even pre-FedCom Steiner had best mechs and vehicles. What tanks and BA did the Suns get that outdoes Lyran gear?

>>50750459
> Once the FedCom breaks down a lot of those lines disappear, either through battle damage or, seemingly, production licences being revoked.

Really? Any examples?

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>>50750453
Well they're the same mech basically, but if you can stand the eyewatering (apparently) combination of SSW colors, you can see I ended up moving 1 crit from the arms and torsos to the torsos. At the end of the day, IS Endo Steel is just not worth it on omnis.

>>50750556
>from arms and torsos to the torsos
Sorry that should be "legs."

>>50750481

Manteuffel is more Suns than Lyran, they get the Challenger-X and Ajax, the Dracs hand them the Schiltron because reasons, then there's the Musketeer and stuff from later eras. All the good stuff the Lyrans make like the Rommel or Patton go to the Suns but the reverse isn't true.

>BA

Infiltrator II, Hauberk, Grenadier.

>>50750494

I thought I remembered things like the Devastator being pulled from production in the Lyran half but checking the HB that wasn't the case.

>>50750556
How the fuck do you use those colors

>>50749391
Except it's shit in a brawl till it gets its ERPPC and/or PR variants. Glaring flaw in early-era play.

starting a new AtB campaign, and one of my lance leaders is in a UM-R60. Nothing else I have is this slow and shitty. The fuck do I do with him? try and get some salvage, get him a better mech? or use salvage to upgrade the shit out of the urbie? at which point, is it even an urbie?

So the Against the Bot pastebin doesn't have the updated link, which I have here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,40948.0.html

If that doesn't work for everyone, here's a mediafire link for the most current AtB rule set: http://www.mediafire.com/file/dyjdl62htdpbfgy/rules_2.30.xls

>>50752369
That depends on what your overall time period, and whether you don't want to just replace it with a Panther.

>>50752426

Locked for mod review almost two years ago? damn, no wonder I haven't seen an update since I started.

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>>50750422
>Tabletop Version of Battletech
Introbox is the best way, but it's OOP and while a reprint is in the works, people are jacking up the price to painfully high levels. I got my start via buying the core rulebook and an old RPG supplement (MW2e), with printed hex grids. Similarly, you don't actually need minis to play, just hex maps and the rulebook. Might be the best way to get started at this time. If you can get the introbox though, that's your best first step.

>Finding people
Since there really aren't any websites that act like the universal communications method between players and gamers (less like Facebook), My suggested methods are to A) Go to the official forums and ask/search your city in the Challenges and Gatherings section, B) Go to local gaming cons and ask anyone who is running the Battletech games (if there is one), or C) Go to the various LGS'es around the city and ask the staff how gamers communicate with eachother. Sometimes they have bulletin boards, sometimes forums somewhere... I know in my hometown, the guys who ran the most popular local wargaming meetup forum supported 40K, Warmahordes, Infinity and Malefaux, but acted like someone who played BattleTech touched them inappropriately when they were a child and offered me no help. Hopefully you won't be in the same situation. Luckily, the grumpy old LGS owner was somewhat more helpful, and was willing to give my contact information to folks who came in asking about the Battletech community.
We're not 40K, and a good chunk of active player groups treat it like D&D, playing at home as a campaign rather than at the LGS as a pickup game. You will likely need to recruit new players.

As for Megamek... personally, if I were you I'd start with playing against the AI that it comes with. Little by little, you'll get more acquainted with the game. Megamek online campaigns are often really finicky, and have been sources of my frustration. pic related.

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>>50749890
>the 2D

Sometimes the -2D does all right, though. Even better, this was a salvaged unit, picked up after its previous pilot died from a faceplant.

>>50750053
>an assault star needed to be chased by 45 mechs

I'd love a bot that respects zellbrigen for Clan mission. I vividly remember my first anti-Clan contract - I didn't know that the bot doesn't respect zell and my point 'Mech immediately ate ERPPC shots from two hostiles, exploding spectacularly. Maybe they really hated dezgra mercenaries.

>>50740700
Yes.
The Sunder is a brawler through and through. An XL on something that's going to take a beating, all for a paltry +1 MP, it's just not worth it.

Maybe if it came with MASC or something in order to let it get a rare +3 TMM it'd be forgivable, but that's a whole lot of ammunition-dependent guns on a fragile short-ranged platform, and mobility is disproportionately punished with BV.

>>50740700
The Sunder more hurts from its sub-par loadouts.

Imagine a Prime with a gauss and 2x ERLL instead of that brawler getup.

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A few threads back I posted about making a4 sized maps for battletech. I have settled on a magnetic board with a wipe clean hex map on top. Magnetic thingies are about the right size. I can use tape or paint to denote the front facing edge of the playing pieces. The whole set up fits into an a4 folder pouch. I can print the standard maps scaled to fit a4 too. Standard maps have slightly bigger hexes though. My B&W ones are 1cm across.

sorted. I spent about $4

>pic related

>>50753165

We've been imagining it with a Gauss, 2 ER PPCs, and C3 all thread.

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>>50750437
It came from here, in early 2008.
/tg/ was still new. Battletech struggled to stay above water under the Dawn of War / 40K spam. 40K spawned tons of mascot characters, like Jubblowski, Faptau, Cultist-Chan, so on and forth. Generals weren't a thing, and until Pole came around with a folder of BT images to spam every thread, we were page 10'd more often than not.

I wanted to poke fun at some of the stuff from the lore that was entertaining, and most people didn't know about, because BOOKS.

While setting up Hanse Davion and Max Liao to pretty much be Team America World Police, not a huge stretch, I needed some reason for Davion to hate Liao, had friends who were squeamish about food more foreign than pizza. Wanted something really western, but without doing the really tired and played out burgers theme.

Instead, Arby's - it's like a burger, but it's not a burger.

One of the drawfags liked the thread, drew up a picture of Hanse Davion putting Max Liao in a headlock while holding a sandwich, and the rest was history.

>>50750556
Do any omnis use IS endo well?

I thought the Perseus actually ends up with fewer crits without ES.

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>>50750621
>Manteuffel is more Suns than Lyran

>built on two Lyran worlds as opposed to one Suns
>named after Lyran generals
ok

>Lyrans get things like the Gürteltier, DI Schmitt, DI Morgan, Gulltoppr, Demolisher II, etc
>Suns get the Hanse MBT that doesn't even have a turret, and their biggest claim to having "better" vehicles is finally being licensed to build older Lyran tanks
>as for battle armor the Lyrans get the Fenrir series, Cuchulainn, etc
alright buddy. it's your opinion and not worth arguing over but i don't think i see it your way.

granted I think it's easier for the Lyrans to have better gear since they're richer, more developed and have the Kell Hounds and Wolves-in-Exile to draw on too.

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>>50754349
First time I caught wind of it was around 2009 on the BT forums where someone had that pic as their avatar.

Then this year I had this done.

>>50754901

>built on two Lyran worlds as opposed to one Suns

Shows up more often on the RATs for the Suns (back when RATs were actually supposed to be indicative of unit structure too) and the lore for them.

>Gurty

Exported to the Suns.

>DI Schmitt

Strictly worse than the earlier Ajax, and exported in numbers to the Suns any way.

>DI Morgan

Too many ER PPCs, not enough armour. And IS General so the Suns get it too.

>Gulltoppr

Lyrans have *barely* started getting their hands on it in the 3131+ era. It's mostly a WiE/Kell design.

>Demolisher II

Can be replicated on the Schiltron or Ajax.

>"better vehicles is finally being licensed to build older Lyran tanks"

And the Zibler, and the Destrier, in addition to their earlier stuff.

>Battle Armour

The Infiltrator II makes a solid case for being the best IS medium suit full stop thanks to the combination of armour, speed, and MagShot GRs. I would place the Achileus next best simply due to the lack of a MagShot.

The Fenrir's speed is nice but a BA without armour, or at least a BA with low armour that isn't Stealth, winds up being target practice. I'd take the Grenadier over it and I doubt I'm in a substantial minority there.

Likewise I'd go the Hauberk over the Cuck, since the LRMs give it better range and the option of specialty ammo types.

The Fusilier's fluff talks its abilities down a lot but the stats don't really back that up. 15 B-Stealth on a 1/2 platform with a MagShot is a pain in the ass to deal with, and the Upgrade goes to Reflec armour with a Plasma Rifle.

Everyone but the Suns starts getting notably better gear in and after the Jihad than before it. I just don't think what they get is good enough to erode the starting advantage of the Suns, particularly when a lot of the good stuff others get is also made for/by the Suns any way.

>>50754701
>Do any omnis use IS endo well?
I guess the Strider uses it okay if you just want a BA taxi. The arms are freed up for guns that won't be blocked, and it isn't capable of carrying any big stuff anyway. And that aside, the E-S is the least of its problems.

Lighter things that can't really carry large items or even a whole lot of smaller ones is the main place it can work. For instance I could see a hypothetical Owens II using E-S in addition to the obligatory DHS and yanking fixed gear changes and having no real problems because of it.

>>50755175
>The Fenrir's speed is nice but a BA without armour, or at least a BA with low armour that isn't Stealth, winds up being target practice. I'd take the Grenadier over it and I doubt I'm in a substantial minority there.

Eh, the quads actually got the speed to escort assault mechs and come with enough firepower to actually put backstabbers down.

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>>50755283

But with 5+1 standard armour they're meat for heavy weapons, to say nothing of Plasmas or Infernos. 4 move and 5+1 iStealth and you'd be in business though.

>>50754701
>>50755196

It's pretty tough to use on anything above 60 tons because you start running into crit space issues thanks to the 14 slots it occupies. Starting with a ballistic weapon and/or large LRM isn't bad but at some point you want energy weapons to round things out and IS DHS already don't play too well with fixed slots, let alone fixed slots when you've devoted a third of your potential crits to Endo Steel.

60 tons would let you redesign the Black Hawk KU to be a bit meaner as long as you're willing to accept some compromises in equipment location. Unmounting two of the fixed DHS makes a big difference on certain configs too.

You could also get a 5/8 base platform with 2 DHS, one point less than maximum armour, and 27 tons of pod space which could be pretty nasty when you consider the Avatar only has 7 tons more pod space (plus the fixed MLs) for another 10 tons and about the same toughness.

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>>50754901
>That pic
I posted an update to that shortly after I posted the first one.

>>50753455
Groovy. I'm about to try out HMMaps and print the results out on the 24 inch wide printer at work.

>>50755485
>But with 5+1 standard armour they're meat for heavy weapons

Well yeah, it's just that they're escorting an assault mech, so them being shot is a win either way.

>>50755175
The Fenrir has nice ground movement but nearly everything it carries is short range. With that armor handicap, it's basically a glass cannon, especially with the ERML/MPL versions.

But the Grenadier has serious staying power, both in the form of armor and weaponry. 7 reloads for the SRM-4 means you can take a squad or two, position them in a stealthy and well-traveled spot, and wreck any idiot who comes nearby, without them being a one-hit wonder.

The only thing that keeps me from agreeing with you about the Infiltrator MkII is that it's basically hardwired for anti-infantry work. Since it only runs with a Magshot, you have to use anti-mek moves to have any kind of significant effect on 'mechs, and that's completely ignoring its' impotence against vees. I'd say in the Medium category a Longinus would be a good contender, though its non-use of stealth armor would be a point of contention.

>>50756035

>Since it only runs with a Magshot, you have to use anti-mek moves to have any kind of significant effect on 'mechs, and that's completely ignoring its' impotence against vees.

MagShot is a 2-damage weapon with 3/6/9 range.

Until the APGR it's arguably the best direct-fire BA weapon available, really only challenged by the Firedrake due to the Firedrale's ridiculously low mass. 50kg for a 1 damage, 1/2/3 range weapon is nuts and I'm still surprised there aren't designs that boat up to four of them even now.

It's the David series GRs that are a bit shit, the MagShot is great.

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>>50749512
I kinda like the anvil personally

Are gyrojet and gyroslug weapons combat viable? Is there a mech equivalent? Are they good against battlearmor?

>>50756506
>Are gyrojet and gyroslug weapons combat viable?
IRL? Not really. The launcher systems can be built cheap as fuck, but that hardly matters when the ammo's expensive. We could probably fix the issues it had with hitting stuff back in the days, god knows, we have dumbfire missiles that fly in a straight, predictable manner these days after all. Still probably not worth it due to ammo being expensive.

>is there a mech equivalent?
Rocket launchers.

>>50756506

>Are gyrojet and gyroslug weapons combat viable?

Yes. They're about as good as a laser rifle for infantry, but do have a shorter range.

>Are they good against battlearmor?

Not notably in BT terms but maybe in the RPG.

>>50756622
>>50756637
Thanks a bunch. I wondered why I didn't see them on BA or used in infantry platoons at all.

>>50755175
>cuck
Really?

>>50756364

And you are in equal measures bad and wrong for liking it.

Come back when it carries the same warload without an XL engine and with max armor. Until then it's just more trash.

>>50755649
I know, I liked the original better.

What is the FWL's standard light mech? I kind of know the other four houses, but purple burd eludes me.

>>50756712

Oh come on. It's an easy target even if I know the pronunciation is coo-cullen.

Besides, this is 4Chan.

>>50756674

BA don't even get them aside from on Anti-Personnel mounts. Next-closest thing is Recoilless Rifles which are actually pretty good. Not APGR/MagShot tier, but pretty good.

>>50756736

The don't really have an iconic light like the Panther, Valkyrie, Commando, or Raven and the ones that could be iconic (Hammer etc) either come along too late or are too shit to want to field.

They fall prey to the Hermes II and Cicada being slightly too heavy to be Lights and the Spider being more affiliated with the Dracs.

>>50756888
I just get burnt out on seeing the "cuck" thing everywhere. Usually I escape that humor on /btg/. No biggie though.

>>50756888
>The don't really have an iconic light like the Panther, Valkyrie, Commando, or Raven and the ones that could be iconic (Hammer etc) either come along too late or are too shit to want to field.
>
>They fall prey to the Hermes II and Cicada being slightly too heavy to be Lights and the Spider being more affiliated with the Dracs.

So is it pretty much bugs for them? I want to know for crafting FWL light lances.

>>50756674
Expense is the primary reason. Gyrojet weapons don't suffer range penalties as easily, but they're expensive to manufacture and feed. Not something you want to issue, unless it's to elite commando troops.

>>50756736
>>50756888
>>50757303
Honestly all the Marik players I've gone up against use the Spider as their light.

I've almost never seen Kurita players use it, instead they opt for Jenners and Panthers.

>>50755175
>back when RATs were actually supposed to be indicative of unit structure too
When was this exactly?

>>50757549
Not that anon but IIRC the mid-2000s, after the 'unseen just don't exist' era, back in forever 67

>>50757549
Never. Maybe the 4th Succession War sourcebooks if you want to make a stretch.

>>50757303

Bugs + tanks. FWL is known for not relying on mech-only force compositions like other houses. They use a combined arms doctrine that emphasizes all elements working together. Which can make up for some of their less-than-stellar mech selections.

>>50758314
I thought that was the Suns with their RCTs and mixed force regiments. The League only started building combined arms units after seeing how well the Defenders of Andurien used them.

>>50740700
I love that guy who is on fire, but has not dropped his gun. That guy is pretty cool.

>>50758314
I know they use a lot of Galleons, but what other light kind-of-disposable tanks do they use?

>>50758542
Brah do you give praise to Blake?

reminder they were the good guys and true sons of Terra

>>50758580
They got the Main Gauche.

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>>50758617
>Main Gauche

>>50758580
Scarboroughs?

>>50758598
*Nuclear launch detected*

>>50758339
Every major house has something like that, the FedSuns are just famous for it for actually having a formula for it with RCTs, and using them to flashy (though ultimately worthwhile) effect.

>>50758339
Combined arms is a hat that everyone but the dracs wears at one point or another, and even as far back as 3025 they weren't uncommon, with the defenders of andurein, the early RCTs, the taurians with their Lancer units, and a decent number of mercs playing that particular game, and the concept proliferated quickly in the 50s until everyone but the dracs were operating some kind of specialist unit in that field

The MUL has the Mackie 5S become available to the Lyrans in the Jihad, and the 6S available to the Free Worlds in the Jihad.

Any idea specifically what years?

I wish the MUL specified both introduction *and* reintroduction dates.

Would a -9H be impossible for my WoB force to possess?

>>50758762
You know you've launched enough nukes when the alarm starts to cut itself off.
"Nuclear launch detect-Nuclear launch de-Nuclear launch-Nuclear lau-Nucle-Nu-Nuclear launch detected....Radiation Alarm."

>>50759222
Yes. Both are retrotech plants that opened in the mid-3070's and shut down after the war. You can find the info in either JHS or the Objectives series.

WoB had all sorts of really rare SL tech including Mk I LAM's and even Apollyon drove an exceedingly rare Shootist. They could have a 9H somewhere, but they wouldn't give it to some standard militia unit.

On the other hand, the vast majority of their WoBM forces were older common tech, especially in the Pre-Operation Odysseus days.

>>50757303
>>50757523
>>50758314
All this ignoring the Flea..

>>50757523
>Honestly all the Marik players I've gone up against use the Spider as their light.

God bless Tematagi and the Rim Collective
>destroyed in the Jihad
I'm still mad.

>>50759788
When Earthwerks sells them all to the goons, it's hardly iconic.

>>50758738
>Scarboroughs?
What? I checked sarna and MegaMek and there is no trace of that. What is it?

>>50758617
Silly, but other than Galleons, what is mass produced light cannon fodder for say the 3015-3025 era?

>>50760689
Scimitar/Saracen/Saladin, 35 ton hovertanks made by Scarborough.

All are 8/12, Scimitar is AC5 and 2 SRM2s in turret, Saracen is LRM10 and 3 SRM2s in turret, Saladin is AC20 forward and balls of ferro-fibrous.

>>50760732
Scarborough the company... my bad. Thanks for clearing that up. I actually like using those trio of tanks a lot. Saracen has served me well and at times the Saladin has made people rage.

>>50760702
Vedettes and Scorps. If 9/10 tanks you're facing in Bumfuck Centauri aren't Vedettes then you're doing it wrong.

>>50760732
>Scimitar/Saracen/Saladin, 35 ton hovertanks made by Scarborough.

And to add to his post, like 40% of their production went to the FWLM or Marik Militia alone.

>Thunder Hawk was designed and built by Norse-Storm in the dying years of the Terran Hegemony
>Norse-Storm produced the Thunder Hawk from the 3050s on based on existing blueprints
>Norse-Storm was founded in the 3040s

∴ The SL-Era Norse-Storm are time travelers from the 3050s or later, building the Thunder Hawk based on plans they found in the future. The Thunder Hawk was never actually designed, but it's design is acausual data.

What are all the mech retcons with regards to like 3025-3050 availability?

I recall folks mentioning the Longbow, Striker (I think for the Cappies), maybe Highlander.

>>50761250
Which ones? Like the 3058/scenario book retcons or the TRO:3025 extra retardicons or TRO:3039 retardicons?

>>50761356
Which are the dumbest I guess

>>50761356
*3025R

>>50761372
>Which are the dumbest I guess

3025R bar none. Crack it open and laugh.

The 3058/scenario book stuff basically puts some mechs and advanced tech in the prototype stage in the 3040's without mass distribution, keeping fairly in line with the old material. The exception to this is the Striker which the Caps get for the same reason they have the most Urbanmechs, relegated to backline duty. They put their Thuds and Victors at the front.

3039 tried to have a slight middle ground between the old material and 3025R, so it's retard lite. This still means you have the Dracs inexplicably get a Catapult line in the 3030's, that the state hurting for PPC production so much it slaps large lasers on its Marauder magically has a giant stash of Warhammer PPC's to build Thugs at a rate greater than most of their mainline factories. Highlanders built from basically nothing but the old control systems and firmware in the Confederation, and so on. Lots of examples to laugh at there.

>>50761226
I think they confused it with Norse Battlemechs on Marduk. Interestingly, they didn't fix this in TRO:3058U.

>>50761226
A closer look at available fluff clears that up.

A group named Norse Technologies made it in 2771, for Kerensky, wo used them and exodus'd as he is wont to do.

Norse technologies and their factory then dies in the Nukecession wars.

Then in the 3030s/40s, Storm's metal thunder merc unit finds the factoryvand rebuild it. They do so in partnership with a guy named Samuel Morse, who may or may not be a descendant of the original Norse Technologies.

Together, they rebuild the factory, Found a new company named Norse-Storm to run it, and start shitting out Thunder Hawks to the incalculable joy of every Lyran player ever.

Seems straightforward enough.

>>50761668
>Morse

Norse. Samuel Norse.

I've been watching too many british detective dramas.

>>50761250
>Striker
The striker technically isn't a retcon, it was originally mentioned in 3025 as being in service almost entirely with second-line units

>>50757549

Field Manuals and even Total Warfare.

>>50758199

First Edition TW had entries that were errata-ed away over the years referencing the FMs as a way of generating more detailed and faction-accurate forces than the table it had in the Creating Scenarios section.

FASA's (and FanPro's) intent was always that RATs were representative of what the factions were doing at the various supply levels, hence the outcry over the later FMs and especially FM: P.

CGL has backed off from that *hard,* and I'm not sure whether fan complaints, authors waking up to it being bullshit, or both are the drivers of that.

>>50759692

The Shootist wasn't that rare and went back into production on Terra some time in the 3060s any way.

>>50760927

Fluffwise that's what most armour for everyone looks like, but serried ranks of Vedettes and Scorpions is as boring as batshit to play or read about so it's Alacorns and so on all the way.

>>50761520
Technically speaking the FWL wasn't so much as hurting for PPC production as it had a huge number of PPC using mechs and was thus prioritizing who got what and developed some after factor refits for it. So it's easy to see that the Thug must have been, like the Awesome, one of the mechs they were slating PPCs for.

>>50761901
>hence the outcry over the later FMs and especially FM: P
I remember a lot of this being because they were burning hard into the "unseen never existed" era, ESPECIALLY in regards to FM:P.

>>50761946
It wasn't manufacturing. It was a literal cache of Donals so big that it put their old LAM parts depots to shame.

If they had that many, they wouldn't gimp anything.

>>50761946

The FWL's PPC issues are a bit over-memed, to be honest.

There's a period between about 3025 and 3030 when they start to try and prioritise their use on things that get the most bang for their buck like the AWS, BLR, WHM, and THG but then the Helm recovery hits.

And then the FWL goes from having a bit of a shortage to not just producing a lot of them but producing the most well-regarded ER PPC brands and exporting them in job lots to everyone else.

They might've been a bit screwed without the Helm recovery but that's something we'll never know.

>>50761901
>The Shootist wasn't that rare

It was quite rare. Even the short story with Apollyon driving his mentions that. The new variants were refits anyway, not new manufacturing. And those were rare enough they are completely extinct by the DA.

Also, from TRO:3058U
>There are now less than fifty Shootists remaining in the Inner Sphere, and unless production is revived, experts predict that the current conflict will be the redoubtable Shootist’s last.

>>50761967
What, is there something wrong with a rare failed prototype that were supposed to have been scrapped in the 30s being the most common medium mech in the TDF?

>>50761967

While that did effect the FMs from CapCon on, at least some of the outrage there is dependent on what they get replaced with. The Lyran and CapCon lighter stuff is hurt by their absence, but the Suns laughs it off and deploys the cream of their '55-58 stuff in those slots instead.

The Drac and FWL RATs still feature the Unseen heavily.

FM: U brings them back with the concurrent Project Phoenix. The cover even features a MoC Phenix Hawk.

>>50761901
>especially FM: P
FM:P also had several other issues aside from the RATs, but they really did just make no fucking sense

>>50762094

TR: 3067 puts it back into production at Mitchell Vehicles on Terra in the Blue Flame entry.

I get what you're saying from 3058U but my barometer for "rare" is more at the point of the Shogun and the like.

At least it's not the Spartan, which is supposed to be on its last legs but shows up all over the god damn place with anyone who's about to shoot one agonising over whether they're about to destroy the last of its kind.

Just shoot the fucking thing. Even if it's about to go extinct it's a piece of shit and putting it out of its misery is a mercy.

>>50762375
58U is dated 3070 so supercedes 67. They might have forgotten or just decided to retcon.

>>50762595
>They might have forgotten or just decided to retcon.
The former is more likely, I would think. They're not exactly known for their mastery of cross-checking the shit they write

>>507626273

>They're not exactly known for their mastery of cross-checking the shit they write

Yes they are, and they'll tell you so at every opportunity.

And if no opportunity exists they'll tell you so any way.

>>50762595

3058U, p. 218: "The violent clashes between Com Guard and Blakist forces in the Chaos March have only served hasten the end for this classic Star League design. There are now less than fifty Shootists remaining in the Inner Sphere, and unless the Word of Blake’s production can keep up with losses, experts predict that the current conflict will be the redoubtable Shootist’s last."

I would hazard a guess that WoB's production didn't just keep up with losses but outstripped them by a large margin given the Shadow and just hidden Divisions they had.

>>50762716
>unless the Word of Blake’s production can keep up with losses,

That's not what it says. It says
"unless production is revived"

P.218

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>>50762759

Relevant section from 3058U highlighted in screenshot.

3058 *Revised* does say "unless production is revived" but Upgrades supersedes it any way.

>>50763038
Look at your Version date. My PDF of 1.0 (April 2006) is as I said.

>>50763081

I got my copy in 2013 or 2014. It's the version with the Emperor on the cover and AFAIK is the latest edition.

Bushwacker version is older and out of date.

>>50763175
Found a copy
>Corrected Second Printing. First Printing By Catalyst Game Labs

I remember when it came out, people said the only difference was the cover. Interesting that it's not the case. Were there changes to the 3067 reprint as well?

>>50763255

>Were there changes to the 3067 reprint as well?

The only things I can see at a glance are WarShip stat line changes.

There might be fluff changes but honestly I can't be fucked going line-by-line there.

It still has the line about the Shootist going back into production that's been around since the first print version of TR 3067 though, if that's what you meant.

Megamek has an unofficial optional rule that the BV for weapons exceeding heat efficiency gets set at .1 instead of .5

What does that actually do? It seems like weapons that make you overheat cost more?

Is it "LEE-run" or "LIE-run?"

>>50763980
Lie-ran

The lyre they get their name from is the reason for it.

>>50763906
It makes bracket fire mechs even better by reducing their BV cost.

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So, lore question.

As someone who started with the computer games, but wants to get into the traditional game, I've been wondering: Since all the fluff says that LB-X ACs can fire the 'traditional' AC rounds in addition to the cluster rounds that they tend to fire in the Mechwarrior series, are they just a more advanced/superior autocannon?

>>50763255
Yes. 99% of it was formatting fixes, BV corrections, and errata updates, but in all the Catalyst reprints there were little fluff fixes here and there.

>>50764254
Considering ACs can also shot cluster munitions I think you are right

>>50764254
Pretty much. Most notably the IS LBX 10 is lighter, smaller, and longer ranged to its standard counterpart. The IS LBX 2, 5 and 20 are all longer ranged but the same weight and slightly larger though, probably to reflect that they weren't Star League era creations, but it sucks nonetheless. The advantages of LBX and UACs is also why the Clans stopped using standard ACs.

Nowadays, standard ACs do have a bunch of alt ammo types that LX can;t use, but most of them are of limited value.

>>50764254

>are they just a more advanced/superior autocannon?

Pretty much. In addition to the LB rounds, they run slightly cooler and get slightly better range than normal A/Cs.

Do note though that LBs can only fire normal or cluster rounds, they don't get access to Armour-Piercing or Precision munitions.

>>50764061

If it's .1 instead of .5 the reduction would be 10% rather than 50%, right?

That should make bracket bitches like the Warlord and Penetrator actually cost something resembling their real value.

>>50764254
Note that technically the slug rounds from a LB-X AC are not the same munitions as fired from a regular autocannon. You could probably convert them but they're not the same round. You might be able to fire them like you can IS ammo through a Clan weapon or vice-versa but it'd cause additional wear or have higher chances of jamming. From a campaign/RPG perspective, of course.

Also as someone else said, you can't use the more advanced munitions that are available to regular autocannons, but that's not a huge loss. Most of them have some handicap that makes them all but pointless, or have a niche role that only makes a real debut if you're using an optional rule (like flechette rounds if you're using a reduced damage model for non-AP weapons).

>>50764445

>You might be able to fire them like you can IS ammo through a Clan weapon

Unless they changed the rules for this in Campaign Ops you can't fire IS ammo through Clan weapons or vice versa.

Not even standard Gauss rounds that are chunks of inert magnetic metal.

Because reasons.

>>50764484
I'm trying to find it but there were (should still be) rules on converting them over and over. You can use them, according to Strat Ops (pg 192), it just changes the ammo quality. You can convert it back and forth with a technician and some time to avoid that.

>>50764320
>>50764339
>>50764353
>>50764445
Aw, shucks, thank you guys. I didn't expect such a clean series of responses.

>>50764254
In essence. Their only disadvantages are being slightly bulkier, and being unable to use certain highly specialized ammunition designed for regular ACs

>>50764339
yeah, part of the issue is that PREX is competing with pulse lasers still, so the only one worth a damn is AP and that has half the ammo and iirc a targeting penalty, so you'd better have deep bins and a TComp or AES or something. AND the penalty for the smaller rounds means you really need to put it on a 10 or 20. At that point you might as well just use an LBX and pray for golden BB, or take a SRM launcher and get your crits after you slag the armor.

So I recently unearthed my battletech box set and need to clean 12-year-old-me's attempt at paint off. I'm also unsure what the type of paint I used. What solution would clear the paint off without damaging the plastic?

>>50765248

Try Simple Green. It's an automotive cleaner. Give them 24 hours in the dip first,and if that doesn't make it slough off easily, give it another 48 hours. It won't hurt your plastics (I've stripped the 3e box minis and the PlasTech minis successfully with the stuff).

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>>50765248
This can be gotten at the Dollar Tree, and other dollar stores in the US. It'll work on anything, even enamel. Had no issues with it screwing up my 3ed vinyl minis (that's what they are, innit? That shit ain't typical plastic). Anyway, it works for a buck.

Are Paramedic/Medic rules in Megamek for infantry?

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>>50765248
>What solution would clear the paint off without damaging the plastic?

We talk about this kind of stuff all the time over in /WIP/ (>>50741925).

If you're in the US, you could use Simple Green like NEA says (>>50765299). I typically use non-acetone nail polish remover for plastic, and either acetone or Goof Off for metal.

>>50765654
Don't think so. They just implemented mountaineer and engineer troops, though. Still missing firefighting and medic, amongst others, IIRC.

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You think we're going to get an Annihilator and be able to put 64 MGs on it in mercenaries 5?

>tfw tearing another 100 tonner apart in seconds
>tfw LASER EYE BEAMS

>>50766448
>You think we're going to get an Annihilator
Almost certainly not, the PC Your Dudes unit isn't associated with the goons in any way, and the chance of a mission to hit the goons and taking salvage is low, and the odds of PGI bothering to add the annihilator are far lower.
>and be able to put 64 MGs on it in mercenaries 5?
Odds of that are 0.00%, the engine and mechanics are straight MWO, so no chance

>>50763980
>>50764047
I've always heard it pronounced "leer-ann".

>>50766766
>engine and mechanics are straight MWO

That's completely wrong.

MWO is on cryengine. MW5 will be on Unreal.

Anyway, the time period is 3015-3049 so no annihilator regardless.

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>>50767579
My knowledge is poor, is there anything within that time frame that can fit as many ballistics?

>>50767664
>is there anything within that time frame that can fit as many ballistics?
Literally anything, given enough time and good tech rolls. The "slots" thing is an artifact of MW4, MW3 had free customization (and you could do some incredibly stupid shit in it, but I digress).

>>50767664
It's unclear what level of customization will be available, but 64 machineguns will definitely not be one of them.

>>50767518
Yes, that is the most common mistake. People are too used to seeing the word lyric and mistake it for the same pronunciation.

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>>50767579

>Anyway, the time period is 3015-3049 so no annihilator regardless.

Eh. The MW games have never really given a shit about that sort of stuff, from the numbers of IS Omnis (and also Annihilators) the Jaguars were apparently using to planetary militias being hip-deep in Clan tech (which then gets canonised any way).

If they really want to put the Annihilator in nothing will stop them but given the era and region I'd expect the Assault options to be Victor, BattleMaster, Cyclops/Highlander, Banshee and Atlas.

>>50767664

Nothing can fit 64 MGs, Annihilator or no.

The best you can do due to crit limitations in BT proper is 52 MGs and .5 or 1 ton of ammo. Even that requires a Compact Engine and Interface Cockpit to free up space in the CT, along with the removal of Hand and Lower Arm actuators.

But if your goal is to boat an absurd number of ammo-based weapons and delete a single enemy before falling back for resupply, it can still be done.

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I heard you liked machine guns.

>>50764254
Yes, They're a swiss army AC/10, able to swap between Slug and Cluster ammunition bins. As other folks have said though, they don't get access to the newer AC rounds meant to breathe new life into vanilla ACs.

Also worth noting, when you say "Traditional" AC rounds, they act similarly, but you can't load an LB-X autocannon with standard Autocannon shells in the event of a scenario game. They'd be marked as LB-X Slug rounds.

Kind of like how you can put a slug-shell in a shotgun, but can't simply put a rifle shell in a shotgun.

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>>50755889
A4 color. happy camper.

Should they have just changed teh stats of all ACs to their LBX counterparts and let them use both ammo types?

>>50769768
What would be the point of having LB-Xs then?

>>50769768

Nah, LBs getting Cluster shots is enough.

The real question is why, when RACs can be unjammed, Ultras can't.

>in b4 Ultras don't jam, their targeting circuits burn out

Point still stands, why isn't there a redudancy when a weapon with an even greater fire rate can fix the problem.

>>50769823
I believe the suggestion is making LBX the new standard and getting rid of the old so differentiating becomes pointless because the old ones no longer exist.

So making standard ACs obsolete but doing it in a weird way that would prove confusing when going to older stuff. Plus, the Clans ditched standard ACs and still label LBX as such, so there's already precedent for retaining that as well.

>>50770340
There's a variety of reasons, fluffwise and ruleswise.

Fluffwise, UACs suffer damage that has to be repaired off battlefield for it to become operative again. It's not severe but it's not inconsequential either. RACs don't have this, they just suffer a feeding issue which requires them to be unjammed.

Ruleswise, UACs only jam on a very narrow roll. RACs have a much higher liklihood of jamming on higher firing rates, so if they had the same jam-and-you're-done set of UACs, that'd make them about as useful as tits on a bull.

>>50770340
>Ultras don't jam, their targeting circuits burn out

Wait what? This can't be the real reason, can it? For fuck's sake, it's even more ridiculous than the explanations for a PPC's minimum range or how pulse lasers work.

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>>50770340
>The real question is why, when RACs can be unjammed, Ultras can't.
RACs were developed for House Davion, that's why.

>>50770340
>The real question is why, when RACs can be unjammed, Ultras can't.

I like to pretend that Ultras are halfway to Gauss rifles already and use magnetic feeds, rams and breech mechanisms in order to move all those heavy components so much faster while RACs are just bundled LACs.

>>50770436
The real problem is that RACs are so god damned tricky to unjam. Can't run, can't shoot, and you still have to make gunnery+3 roll to boot. I'd be fine with gunnery+3 if it was what you would have to do if you were shooting or something simultaneously, but I think basically stopping everything to unjam should have better odds of success.


>>50770481
Did you know modular armor, which requires the necessary free crits and weight like any other piece of equipment, has MP and PSR penalties are because it is bulky and exceeds a unit's normal design parameters?

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I have kind of some professional questions for our awesome artists.
Do you ever get a request for a mech, tank or whatever that you think it butt-ugly and have a problem with it?
Do you ever have difficulties with inspiration in completing a project?
Do you make any BT stuff of your own design on your own time or do you not have enough time with commissions?
Has anyone asked you for holiday themed BT art, or silly stuff like Urbie jokes or kitty-Mad Cat / Timber Wolf art?
I ask because I am impressed with artistic talent I do not have and just wondered. Thanks ahead of in advance if you have the time for this.

>>50770549
>davions wrecking steiners
best years of my life

>>50770605
>because it is bulky and exceeds a unit's normal design parameters

Well that's at least justifiable, saying that bolting on extra framework and more armour on the chassis would through a non-modified unit's balance off or something like that.

But saying that blatting out twice the number of rounds in ten seconds would fry a targeting unit, of all things, is serious bullshit. As is saying a "particle field" isn't formed close enough to the accelerator to have full accuracy, or pulse lasers trying to hammer the same spot (through the ejecta) instead of being, say, having really good capacitors that can put out microsecond pulses at the same power as a standard "Shadow slicer beam" style laser.

Speaking of minimum ranges, what's the official reason for the minimum range on AC/2 and AC/5?

>>50770605
If all you had to do was roll some dice to unjam it, that'd make them pretty overpowered. Continue to move and shoot while just trying to unjam it? Not a great balancer. Now if you have to stop and do nothing while unjamming it, it forces you to make a tactical decision: is it worthwhile to put me out of commission for a round to get this weapon back online? That's part of a deciding factor on whether or not to even put a weapon on a 'mech, or what ammo to give it.

>>50770670
My guess on minimum ranges would be arming times for explosive rounds. Sort of like how modern 40mm rounds have a minimum range before they're armed.

>>50770481

It frying its targeting circuits has always been the fluff reason. TM p. 208 talks about "arming failures" but it's always been phrased similarly to that.

>>50770670

>Speaking of minimum ranges, what's the official reason for the minimum range on AC/2 and AC/5?

They have long barrels for accuracy at a distance but that makes traversing against close-in targets a pain in the ass.

>>50769823
>>50770340
>>50770396
Yeah, there would be no "LBX" just ACs with longer ranges and an alternate ammo type.

>>50770396
While LB-Xes have largely eclipsed regular ACs for line combat units, they still have a very potent and prevalent usage: militias, PDFs, and budget units. Regular ACs are cheap, much cheaper than LB-Xes or UACs, and easier to produce, as the technology has been around for centuries, and don't require advanced materials (like the endo-steel used in LB-X manufacture). That's why you see a ton of combat vehicles still mounting ACs, it keeps their cost and time of manufacture down.

>>50771737
You're a special kind of stupid.

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Gnarr! GAAAAAAH. Nip nip!

>>50771785
Nice refutation of all his statements, now everyone knows just how superior you really are.

>>50771785
a glamorous way to concede.

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>>50771785
Here, this took me about as much time to find as you did to shit out your "counter".

>>50770340
House rule that ultras can be unjammed like RACs then. Problem solved. It's even an option in megamek.

>>50769638
Nice.

Ok, so I'm interested in the game but as shallow as it sounds the original models are just ugly to me. Do any online shops sell updated "not-Battletech" recasts of the minis ?

>>50774458
Warhansa does MWO style minis.

>>50774644
>Warhansa
Thanks. What book should we start with anyway ? I heard the Shadowrun guys took over as the the distributor or something and wrote a new rulebook ?

>>50774678
Locate the intro box if possible (it comes with a couple of dozen figures) for introductory rules, otherwise get Total Warfare.

>>50774719
Aren't there multiple starter boxes ?

>>50774759
Two, the old one and the 25th Anniversary one. The new one has an Atlas on the cover and comes with a Summoner and a Hellbringer.

>>50774806
So this one yes ? Is it better to get this or just download the newest rules in pdf and get minis you want of Warhansa ?

>>50774864
Finding the intro box can be costly, not to mention a bastard of a job, so a copy of Total Warfare and Russkie minis would be cheaper.

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>>50774911
Forgot my pic in the previous post. This is what I meant.

And I don't know what those things you mentioned in this post are, is that a new edition or something ?

>>50774981
That's the one (Atlas on the cover and two dozen minis plus a Summoner and Hellbringer).

Total Warfare is the first book of rules, it contains most everything you need to play. If you want more rules for all sort of advanced shit, there are Tactical Operations, Strategic Operations and Interstellar Operations.

Russkie minis means Warhansa.

>>50774864

Since you mentioned PDFs, if you're only interested in mechs (at least for the moment) there's a new rules PDF that's supposed to be out in the next week or two called the BattleMech Manual that will be much easier to follow than Total Warfare (the current main rulebook). It's basically TW with all current errata and cleaner writing and layout and all the non-mech stuff cut out.

>>50774806
Not to mention the old 5th, 4th, 3rd, and 2nd still floating around.

You want the newest one, though. Best deal.
If you can find a 3rd edition box, you need to confirm that it comes with the minis. The only reason to get that box are the minis.

Every other edition I've listed only has cardboard chits.

>>50765248
For metal mini's I've tried Simple Green, Pine-Sol, acetone, and Citristrip. Citristrip is by far the best, working faster, more thoroughly, and effective on more kinds of paint than any of the others have been.

Haven't tried it on plastics though, so not sure how that will work out.

>>50776095
>Citristrip

Citristrip will fuck up anything softer than full-on ABS plastic (like, sporting equipment). That very definitely includes any of the plastic minis FASA ever released. There's stuff online showing it destroying the plastic casing on *telephones*, which is WAY tougher than our minis.

It *might* be OK to work on GW minis, but I'd hesitate even with those.

>You're right that it's great on metal, but I prefer keeping Simple Green around so I have just one thing for both plastic and metals.

What are the X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing and B-Wing of aerospace fighters?

>>50776955
This would be so much easier if you said what those were to you.

Like is an X-wing an advanced fighter sold under the table to guerillas or something with 4 lasers and a missile spread?

>>50776955
The only direct analogies I could think of would be the Eisensturm for the Y-Wing (workhorse, hardy, capable bomber), and possibly either a Trident or Cheetah for an A-Wing (fast, lightly armored and armed).

The other two...you'll need to elaborate on what they are/what you're looking for.

>>50777206
>Eisensturm
>Ancient slow bomber

I don't think so, Tim. Try a Chippewa or a Reaver.

>>50777234
>ancient
>slow
>doesn't realize that the Eisensturm is a newer design
>doesn't realize that it has a faster movement profile than either
>doesn't realize that both have far less armor than the Eisensturm

Can't tell if you're trolling or just bad at fact checking.

>>50777370
No, you doof. The Y-wing is supposed to be an ancient slow bomber. That's what you don't realize.

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>>50776955

Huh. OK. I'll stick with primarily Introtech for right now, as it makes thinking about it all a little easier.

X-wing:
>Versatile workhorse capable of adequately filling the space-superiority and attack roles.

Probably the Eagle or the Transgressor. Fast, tough, hard-hitting. There's an argument to be made for Stingrays as well.

Y-wing:
>older, slower craft optimized for an attack role with a good reputation as being easy to fly and reliable.

Transit. Slower than the Eagle/Transgressor (yes I know it's a 6/9 airframe, but it's described as "isn't fast" while other ships at 6/9 are described as "fast"), with a rep for being easy to fly. Exceptionally hard-hitting in the attack role.

A-wing:
>fast, ridiculously agile craft that's still reasonably hard-hitting and just tough enough it doesn't come apart if you sneeze on it.

Centurion. It's plenty fast (10/15) and with excellent firepower (triple MLs), but unlike, say, the Thrush, it can actually take a hit as well as give one out. Note that I'd use the Thrush as an example of a TIE/Int.

B-Wing:
>finicky and unreliable airframe that's capable of ridiculous amounts of damage when it manages to get all its guns salvo'd on one target.

Chippewa. Come apart easy and if you can outfly it, the thing's easy meat. However, it mounts some of the best raw firepower among ASFs (as long as you remember the experimental cooling jackets on the lasers that often get removed for reliability reasons, similar to the experimental rotating cockpit that get fixed in place a fair number of times in fluff).


I'd like to do the TIE fighters as well, but they just don't work under the BattleTech design paradigm, and there aren't any good canon equivalent's I can think of off the top of my head. I'd design a custom that roughly imitates their performance *relative* to the fighters I've outlined above. See pic.

If /btg/ is interested, there is a Battletech Discord server that got made, maybe you could find a game. Seems pretty new.

https://discord.gg/zJF8ebe

>>50775045
Oh, a Russian shop should be great for me as long as it's trustworthy since I live in Europe. And I have to say, their minis like great, especially compared to the ones I saw in the starters.

And I seriously don't fucking follow the editions in BT, I'm looking at several shops with like 20 books and I wish it had something like "5th edition main rulebook" like in 40k for clarity.

>>50775618
Oh, that's nice. I'm not looking for some gimped quick start rules since I want the full experience, but have it in one place without need 4 books to start.

So what do you need to play a game, beside minis and the rulebook ? I see a hex based map, what about terrains, do you use it flat or add some buildings and stuff ?

>>50778053
If you want the full experience (tanks, infantry, aero, etc), then you want the latest printing of Total Warfare (fourth printing, check p. 7 and you'll see the printing. It has the same rules as other printings, but since each printing incorporates errata to date, you might as well get the newest. It will be the only one in stores at this point, so as long as you buy new you'll almost certainly get it). Once you're happy and familiar with that, the traditional next book is Tactical Operations, which adds a ton of extra weapons and optional rules.

> So what do you need to play a game, beside minis and the rulebook ? I see a hex based map, what about terrains, do you use it flat or add some buildings and stuff ?

Maps (whether the ones that come in the box set or hexpacks, or the older paper ones) have terrain such as wood, water, and buildings already on them. However, plenty of people like to mod their maps; you can add whatever terrain you want by just sitting it on the board, as long as everyone knows its definition ("this is light woods, not heavy woods; this is level 3 in height", etc). The old heroscape game terrain is quite popular as a BT map mod. But you don't really *need* anything else.

>>50778465

Why the hell does CGL constantly refuse to print new (not reprinted) map-packs, anyway? FASA didn't sell the license to produce THOSE, right?

What other boardgame company outright refuses to sell the <game board> to their game-which-is-played-on-a-board?

>>50772087
>>50772175
>>50772265
If he doesn't get yet that you wouldn't save money by using a standard AC over an LBX because there would be no LBX, what do you want? I can tape a piece of paper saying AC=LBX to a bat and whack him in the head with it...

>>50778549

I happened to be at MechCon and Brent Evans talked of this. He said the main problems were that a) the cost of paper has gone up immensely in the past few years (this was the main problem with the hexpacks in particular, I gathered), and b) finding someone who is good at making maps is hard. They looked at taking maps right out of the HBS game but the game was unable to make them at sufficient DPI, even after Mitch personally set to tinkering with the engine.

All second hand, but this is how I recall it. I really wanted more hexpacks.

>>50778549
I just aw a post on the OF a few days ago, iirc, that said they don't sell so they don't print them. Seems weird to me but w/e

>>50778727
>the cost of paper has gone up immensely in the past few years

Interesting, is it the specific type of paper? I was doing research on paper production for a state legislature a couple of years ago and the cost was going down for the various grades I was looking at due to pulp recycling and more efficient water use.

>>50778757

It wasn't clear (or at least, I can't remember it being clear). He may have been referring specifically to just the hexpacks, as they were wrapped into the conversation about mapsheets.

>>50778732

Well of course they don't sell. They haven't been made in forever, and the ones that have actually been printed in the last 10 years are all copies of previous mapsheets that people bought when FASA was producing them.

It's like the whole Sisters of Battle thing 40K-side. GW won't make sisters because they haven't sold well over the last decade+. They haven't sold because all the minis are from the mid-1990s so anyone who wants them, already has them.

CGL needs to be able to actually take a risk at some point.

>>50778727

I can understand that, but how hard is it to draw a hexmap? Shouldn't all of the terrain be saved as a digital image somewhere and it can just be layered over the new blank map? I mean, if AtB can generate games using that techinque, why can't CGL?

Expensive I understand. But still, these <are> the literal boards required to play the game we're talking about here. If they want to maintain that it's a boardgame, they need to find a way to sell the boards. Or just go whole hog and retcon the boards out and be a straight-up miniatures game outright from now on (with a rule that says if you try to play on a board, you auto-lose to keep the grogs from fucking with the transition).

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I might as well "pre-order" 10 sets since they're never going to get made.

>>50778827
I don't know the answers; sorry. I'm just passing on what I heard. I'd love new maps, too: for me they're essential in helping keep the game fresh. I'd love a box set that has ten or so maps and a giant pile of TW-based scenarios, to make games more than either "let's kill each other again" or some historical based thing. I'd like a 40K-ish middle ground of more king of the hill and other types of support for pickup games, with faction-based scenario rules support. There's a little of that in TW, but its scant and I don't think it's well done.

>>50779125

S'OK. Thank you for taking the time to answer me. I'm not mad at you - I'm just mad in general and mad at CGL's business practices that have torpedo'd their ability to do anything forever, evidently.

>I liked Levs too
>and Cosmic Patrol
>and the idea of a aero box set
>and the idea that we might actually someday see the timeline move forward with the IlClan book

>>50779085
link?

>>50779166
I absolutely fell in love with Leviathans.
I was so mad when I had to hear, second hand, that the project has basically been abandoned.

>>50778827
It's especially odd when Mapmaster posts on the OF. His maps are basically one-use (i.e. you're always gonna be playing on that map, instead of being able to turn sheets, use a mix, etc.) and expensive, you'd think there would be a market for smaller, more flexible ones.

>>50779166
>aero box set

They have a hard enough time keeping BT alive, and you think AeroTech has a chance? AeroTech, the game that barely works to begin with?

>>50775045
That one doesn't come with the Summoner/Hellbringer, it comes with the Battlemaster/Timber Wolf.

t. guy who bought two of them

>>50779174
https://battletechgear.com/product/clan-banner-set/

>>50779239

Well without it as its own product, we'll never really know now, will we? No, it's far better to keep the 40% of the aero rules as an annex in the main book, and divide the remaining 60% of the rules between three more totally seperate books that took a decade to all get published. That'll TOTALLY get people on board, amirite?

Why CGL hasn't just excised the aero-relevant sections of the damn rules and put out a dedicated PDF for like $10 is completely beyond me. Aero as it stands is totally unplayable if and only if you actually need to look up rules.

>>50779166
>Cosmic Patrol
MAH NIGGA I loved fucking Cosmic Patrol. Why'd CGL kill that one? Didn't sell well enough or some shit?

>>50779300
Aero is fucked by the formatting and all, sure, but the game itself is fundamentally broken and not worth CGLs time when there are so many other, better space games and it's not a core part of their brand.

>>50779305

Well, they printed 1,000 copies of the rulebook. But since didn't didn't sell at least 5,000 copies, it wasn't popular enough to warrant keeping around.

>>50779317
>when there are so many other, better space games

Like what? What other space games are at all commonly played or successful?

And if you say X-wing, Armada, or ST: Attack Wing, you can go fuck yourself without passing GO and collecting 200 C-bills. Those are shit games from top to bottom that succeed because they have incredibly popular licenses and everybody already wants to play in those settings. The rules literally don't matter: Star Wars Space Battles was complete shit (there weren't even movement rules for capital ships; they didn't move and could just shoot across the whole board) and it still sold and was played hugely, just because it was Star Wars.

>>50779256
>https://battletechgear.com/product/clan-banner-set/

Wow the jag one is fucking garbage.
Bear one is decent except for the bear head itself.
Falcon has a random stripe and one wing is quite different from the other. Is it a mutant chicken?
Wolf is fine
Nova Cat is the best, actually improves on the logo.

>>50779324
Wait, seriously? That's the reason? That's fucking retarded.

>>50779402
Something about the Wolf one seems off.

What were the first battlemechs each of the six houses built?

Besides the Mackie for the Hegemony, that is.

>>50779402

>fucking up the Jags and the Falcons.

Well, we know who HBS doesn't like.

>>50779472
IIRC, the Kyeudo (Drac, I think), the Icarus (Marik), the Battleaxe (Davion), the Ymir (Lyran), and one I don't know. This is out of memory, so I may be wrong on these, but they're all super early.

>>50779522
The Jaguar one looks like a high school football logo.

>>50779528
Wait, I'm retarded, the Drac mech was the Gladiator. I don't know the Capellan mech.

>>50779546
And that's why it fails.

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>>50779559
The banners are pretty bad, but yeah the Jaguar and Falcon ones are awful. The Wolf one looks odd somehow. How hard is it for these people?

>>50779472
Everyone made Mackie copies first. They didn't make their own designs until later.

>>50779371
>What other space games are at all commonly played or successful?

The fact that you need to ask is telling in and of itself...

I haven't played either of those two games, but other games out there - Full Thrust, Attack Vector, Firestorm Armada, Saganami Island, Halo Fleet Battles, Bab5 Call to Arms, etc. There are also some older games, like Silent Death and Battlefleet Gothic, that have followings.

>>50779448
But it's just the Wolves, so who cares?

>>50779639
I like them. They're my favorites again now that they finally wiped out Phelan's retard splinter faction once and for all.

Rapidly approaching bump limit...
New thread
>>50779640

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>>50779683
we passed the bump limit a bit ago, we're still on page 3. why not cool it with the quick jumps to new threads?

>>50779201
>>50779166
Damnit anons, you're going to get NEA saddrunk.

If I didn't avoid that behavior like the plague because of alcoholism on both sides of the family, probably me too.

It was the game that was simply too awesome for this world.

>>50779558
Firebee is the Capellan's first.

>>50779823
Why wasn't it called the "Ching Chong Chang" or something?

>>50777644

TIEs would be something like the Cheetah.

Stupid fast, shit guns, shit armour.

The B-Wing I'd peg as an Eisensturm or Reiver too, depending on where you fall on its ship-killer versus bomb-trucker role. Never knew it to have reliability issues either, be it in the old canon where Admiral Ackbar designed it from the ground up as the last word in starfighters or the new. Pain in the ass to pilot yes, but not poorly built.

>>50779239

The current rules set for Aero is actually great. It still needs some tweaking to fighter squadrons so that a Wing of Stingrays can't kill 50%+ of canon designs by themselves and the WarShips themselves need to be redesigned, but other than that the base ruleset (especially with the StratOps options in play) is actually great.

We also now have hard rules on how much in spare parts or ammo a ship goes through per month, and anything with ~30 KT plus cargo can easily supply itself and an on-board air wing for over a year.

>>50779300

It could definitely use an AT2 style treatment where everything is consolidated into one place with some counters. However, up until now consolidation and a cut-down word count has been absolute ANATHEMA to CGL. It might be interesting to see how well the Manual goes and whether they'll do the same for Vehicles, Infantry, and Aero units.

>>50779780
>shitty Space 1889 ripoff and Dystopian Wars competitor

RIP in peace

>>50779879
Xin Sheng was centuries away.

>>50779879
The Cultural Revolution hadn't happened yet.

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>>50779879
The latest model is