40k General

The Dark Eldar always strike first!

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>>50734359

First for heresy.

>Orks are a melee race
>I2

Fourth for Alpha Legion

Hail Hydra, brothers.

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Coteaz wants you to think he planned on being first, fortunately you've fallen into his elaborate trap

I think I've discovered a way to play 1kSons that is viable.

>>50734382
I like you.

So Space Wolves ran a retarded list and still tabled the Thousand Sons on turn 3?

>>50734417
Do go on.

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Friendly reminder banging bolter bitches is confirmed canon, now that's some sister hype to actually get excited about

>>50734441
Even worst, they removed Magnus from play with a single shot, turn 2.

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>>50734441
Tfw when Magnus remembers to tell Ahriman to bring hand warmers for the next attempt to destroy the sons of Russ

>>50734459
How the fuck are they assaulting out of a rhino?

So, no new releases (and by releases, I mean Preorders) this week? Just the repackaging of Isle of Blood for AoS?

>SoB minis

Yeah, they're never being updated with new minis and a unique codex, are they? This is pretty hilarious in a 'oh for fuck sake' way, isn't it? So, what did the amazing 99.9% always right rumour monger Lady Anita actually see? Did she see Sisters of Silence models? Makes sense since the latter are clearly getting new models in 30k and will probably get more in 40k.

Oh well. Guess I'll look up proxies for SoB.

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pewpewpew

GUYS, I need your help writing a list!
I've got a game vs Tau tomorrow and I can't write a list in satisfied with, can you help me?

I always write my lists in a certain way though.

>>50734454
We already knew this. SoB have fucked in previous canonical fluff. Which book is that in? My Index books haven't arrived yet.

>>50734454
Where's that from?

>>50734488
>not having it hover way above the board and scenery

Do you even WW2 style bombing?

>>50734454
Do give a source on that, before claiming stuff.

Why does Guard have such shit fluff?

>>50734476
They simply have no idea what the rules of the game are.
Let me remind you that the very people WHO WROTE THOSE RULES are in the studio watching the game.

AND
THEY
ARE
CLUELESS

>>50734506
It looks like one of the Index books. They added lots of footnotes like that in the last ones.

>>50734512

there is actually a lore reason for that. During Armageddon III, Orks took the air pretty fast. Surviving bombers had to be armored and refitted to fly low and strafe instead of bomb from high altitude.

>>50734359
My first game since 5th was today. The GW store man helped teach me how the flow of the game goes and I tested some things out. Pask in a Punisher is amazing, but I'm not sure what other Leman to run with him. I tried Executioner and I didn't like how it functioned. If it weren't for my Engiseer, it would have destroyed itself as it hurt itself 4 times over the game. Would another Punisher be good? Exterminator?

Also, how is the Vanquisher? Seems like with a Lascannon it could be an okay tank. The ordnance firing rules make me not want to take the Demolisher or the Battle Cannon.

I want to test out some blobs and Basilisks next game. I'd also like to get some Hydra Flak tanks and some Wyvern, but the points in game versus how much they cost in real life is ridiculous.

>>50734512
>not sweeping the board

Do you even ground attack craft?

>>50734512
This isn't the fighter version; It's the gunship/strafing variant.

>>50734492
What army anon?

>tfw /tg/ experiences legendary sexual gratification every time a tau looses

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>>50734506
Cain catches his sisters of battle friend walking out of a guy's room who had clearly just done the deed or was about to

>>50734537
Try the Eradicator. It's cheap and really effective with wither 1 or 3 HBs. The fact that the Turret gun isn't Ordnance is a plus too. It one of the go to Russes in 7th.

My friend recommended me the Warhammer Eisenhorn book, but I know nothing about this world and I certainly can't afford to play the game. Does this book work as an introductory text?

>>50734498
>>50734506
>>50734517
I recognize the style. That's a Ciaphus Cain book. Cain's Last Stand, I believe.

>>50734548
Daemons of chaos.
I like to build it bit by bit you see, starting with the warlord.
What greater daemon should I use?
Bloodthirster
Keeper of secrets
Great unclean one
Lord of change

>>50734537
The general word on the street is that Vanquishers from the Armored Battlegroup list are better than the usual ones. The BS 4 Tank Commander and Commjsar Tank can buy Beast Hunter Shells (S8 AP 2 Instant Death) for slapping Riptides. Better than the slow firing normal Vanquisher.

I wh40k tabletop like 10 years ago as Tyranids, considering making a return. However I'm more interested in Necrons now, looking at the lore parts and seeing they have dynasties and things now, not really a fan of but, what are some of the more interesting dynasties to read about?

I'm thinking books, texts or whatever. I like them with focus on 'high tech' if possible.

>>50734533
>>50734538
>>50734542
Wait, isn't that the Marauder? I forget then. Never mind, disregard I suck cocks.

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Feedback appreciated.

1500- Basic Speartip with Cabal
++Black Legion Speartip
+Black Legion Warband
Chaos Lord- Terminator Armor, The Spineshiver Blade, Power Axe- 135
Chosen (5)- Meltagun (2), Rhino- 145
Chosen (5)- Meltagun (2), Rhino- 145
Raptors (5)- Plasma Gun (2)- 125
Raptors (5)- Plasma Gun (2)- 125
Chaos Terminators (4)- Combi-plasma (4), Power Maul (2), Power Axe, Chainfist- 160
Havocs (5)- Autocannon (2), Rhino- 130
Havocs (5)- Autocannon (2), Rhino- 130
+Spawn
Chaos Spawn (1)- 30
+Cyclopia Cabal
Sorcerer- Spell Familiar, Level 3- 125
Sorcerer- Spell Familiar, Level 3- 125
Sorcerer- Spell Familiar, Level 3- 125

>>50734529
Im just skipping through bits. Seriously these lists are terribad, and Im pretty sure they didn't even follow the rules of the mission as Magnus didn't explode when he died.

Is there a word for when disappointment happens so often you end up disappointed in yourself for believing anything else would happen?

>>50734537
I run pask in a punisher with an executioner ally

Wyverns are currently broken as fuck for infantry deleting, get 2-3

Manticores outshine basilisks for vehicular slaughter and basilisks have too many downsides for MEQ killing unless you run the artilary formation

Enginseers and psykers help your tanks shoot and keep shooting

Think about bringing Coteaz in a huge blob of guardsmen for countering drop pods, the mortal enemy to any parking lot lost

>>50734571
Sounds like a great idea. I have an old school Demolisher so the barrel is a bit longer than the current Demolisher. Do you think there's anyway I could modify it to look like an Eradicator? Or just do a count as?

>>50734581
That sounds amazing. Are there any restrictions to using it? Or is that a formation? I'm still trying to get a hang of all the stuff in 7th. So much has changed and I'm trying to catch up.

>>50734602
You'd be better served playing Alpha Legion.

>>50734537
Did you remember to reroll the gets hot rolls using Pask's Warlord trait? That's generally how it works and the recent official (not WiP) FAQ confirmed that yes, you reroll gets hot for blast with prefered enemy. So it should be a less than 1/6th chance of hurting yourself each turn with those sponsons. Are you just unlucky?

Vanquishers need BS4 and/or twin-linked. So you should either grab them from the FW book, stick them in an Emperor's Fist formation, or give one to pask if you REALLY hate the cheese grater.

This canoness cast is a mess. Typical finecast shite

>>50734417
>I think I've discovered a way to play 1kSons that is viable.
And that is?

>>50734575
Please respond.

>>50734575
Eisenhorn Xenos book is quite interesting. I'd probably recommend 'Fifteen Hours' if you want an introductory text to the setting.

>>50734548

>tfw /tg/ winces every time a gamer spells "loses" incorrectly

>>50734613
Armored Battlegroup is a sort of sub-codex published in... Imperial armor 2 I think.

Basically you run a normal force org chart but with TANKS EVERYWHERE and you get your own special upgrades/WL traits/orders.

>>50734623
>finecast

Annnnd discarded this post. (You).

>>50734575
Go read the Commissar Cain series. It is designed as an intro into the universe.

>>50734577
Depends with daemons (which I'll admit I don't play)

Want to get extra trolly? Run a lord of change and use the grimor to make him unkillable, spam cursed earth as well and add in fateweaver for a truly nauseating army that will not gain you many friends

While KDK is strictly better for khorne, a bloodthirster and a bunch of doggies will still wreck some face

>>50734645
>implaying looses isn't a meme
:^)

>>50734645
That mistake is a diamond dozen, anon.

>>50734605

What is everyone on about?

>>50734651
What?

Its literally finecast. It comes on a finecast sprue

>>50734645
>looses up their butthole for a serious pounding

Sorry I fixed it

>autists wince

Got that one for ya too

>>50734622
I didn't realize that his whole squad got preferred enemy. I played it as only him getting preferred enemy. I was unlucky today though. The Executioner was the first thing I fired and rolled 3 1's. Thankfully only 2 hurt me.

>>50734612
So you run it too. I figured it would be a great choice, but after today I'm more hesitant. Though, with what I just read in that other Anon's post, I played it wrong today. Engiseers are definitely making it into my list. He was amazing today. I also have a Manticore tank unbuilt, so I will have to get on that.

I was thinking of using Jacobus to give some blobs Fearless and Counter-Attack. What does Coteaz do for the blob and against drop pods?

>>50734646
Interesting. So I assume you can't take infantry then since the troops and such are tanks?

>>50734655
I'm just looking for a fun list, something /tg/ can help me generate post by post.

I can't run khorne daemonkin because all the relics and warlord traits I like on him are for daemons.

Hoping to get some help deciding between the following two lists:

Option 1

Eldar CAD
>Farseer
>8x Storm Guardians - 2x Flamers
>8x Storm Guardians - 2x Flamers
>8x Storm Guardians - 2x Flamers
>4x Shining Spears - Exarch w/Star Lance
>3x Weapon Batteries - 3x D-Cannon
>Wraithknight - Glaive and Shield

Corsair Raiders - Sky Burners
>Prince - Cloud Dancer, Void Sabre, Shadowfield
>Baron - Cloud Dancer
>3x Cloud Dancers - 3x Scatter Lasers
>5x Reavers - Felarch, 2x Blasters, Venom w/Splinter Cannon and Scatter Laser
>5x Reavers - Felarch, 2x Blasters, Venom w/Splinter Cannon and Scatter Laser
>2x Warp Hunters - 2x Void Burners

Option 2

Craftworld Warhost

Guardian Stormhost
>Farseer
>8x Storm Guardians - 2x Fusion Gun, 2x Power Sword
>8x Storm Guardians - 2x Fusion Gun, 2x Power Sword
>8x Storm Guardians - 2x Fusion Gun, 2x Power Sword
>Vyper - Bright Lance
>3x War Walkers - 6x Scatter Lasers
>3x Weapon Batteries - 3x D-Cannon

Wraith Construct
>Wraithknight - Glaive and Shield

Aspect Host - +1BS
>9x Warp Spiders - Exarch
>9x Warp Spiders - Exarch
>4x Shining Spears - Exarch w/Star Lance

Corsair Raiders - Hate Bringers
>Prince - Cloud Dancer, Void Sabre, Shadowfield
>Baron - Cloud Dancer
>3x Cloud Dancers - 3x Scatter Lasers
>3x Cloud Dancers - 3x Scatter Lasers

-Farseer joins the D-Cannon Battery
-Prince joins Shining Spears
-Baron joins a Cloud Dancer

Basically I'm trying to decide if I like the more fleshed out Raiding Party against the really concrete benefits of the Warhost.

>>50734678
Finecast has been disbanded ages ago, anon. They don't do Finecast any more. They've removed the majority of their Finecast from the store.

>>50734620
Yeah, but I'd be even better served just playing Ultramarines.

I painted my dudes Black Legion, I like the fluff of the Black Legion, I'm going to use the damn rules for the Black Legion. I've already given up on trying to make the Thousand Sons work.

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>>50734613
Just put any kind of muzzle brake on the demolisher and it will be perfect.

>>50734454
>old ass fluff piece is old ass

>>50734690
Coteaz is an amazing force multiplier

>ML2
>let's you rerolling the seize die
> I've been expecting you

So what that does is if anyone appears within 12" of Coteaz out of deep strike he can shoot at them with his entire until, over and over and over

>the other player might laugh when he sees you only have guardsmen in that squad, the laughing stops really fast when you kill 2-3 guys out of every squad of marines that tries to deepstrike into your tank company

Just remember to strategically place him so your bubble covers a lot of deep striking bait, I've placed in multiple tourneys with him as my linchpin

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>>50734704
Youre right, its not finecast. It only LOOKS exactly like finecast.

>>50734696
Option 1 doesn't have enough armor for the Reaver Venom's to last long.

Option 2 is maximum fag.

>>50734716
SoB fuck, it's been in several fluff pieces. No fluff has been released recently about SoB and thus we have to go on what has been said. SoB have sex. Who cares?

Beast Arises series has a lesbian Inquisitor who enters the Sister of Silence fortress, an all female order, on her own. Who cares?

>>50734695
Sorry dude the ol cheese bone was acting up, personally I always love playing against nurgle for the "holy Christ these guys will not die" aspect, makes me really feel like I'm just shooting into this blob and doing nothing

>>50734757

I'll likely reserve the venoms to take advantage of their scout special rule.

>>50734716
It's literally more recent then the entire sisters army line, with only one codex more current that does not deny it

>>50734745
That sounds amazing. I must do that. I never got the Coteaz model, but I got Karamazov way back in the day. I'll have to get to ordering him so I can blob it up and place him there.

>>50734714
Fantastic. Now I just need to find a muzzle break for it.

>>50734622
I forgot to ask, what FW book is it in? And does I just specify with my opponents that it is the Forgeworld Vanquisher?

>>50734443
Why are tzangors not daemons?

>>50734577
Lord of Change- Greater Reward (2), Lesser Reward, Mastery Level 3, The Impossible Robe- 330 Points

Depending on what else is in your list, Paradox instead of the Impossible Robe is acceptable. Dropping both Greaters for budgetary concerns is also acceptable.

>>50734623
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>50734774
So GUO warlord? Sounds good.

Ok, next I pick the troops. Now, even though some on /tg/ think of it as taboo, I really love mixing gods.
Diverse and inclusive incursions are my specialty.

Pick three of the following.
Bloodletters
Pink horrors
Daemonettes
Plaguebearers
Basically, which gods lesser daemons am I going to exclude?

>>50734833
You've said this over every single thing related to SoB. It's utterly baffling.

>>50734848
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>50734837
Pink Horrors (11)- 99

>>50734690
Parking lot is a fun balance of support and overwhelming firepower, cripple your enemy's army by turn 1-2, and crush anything left, target anything that can threaten your heavy armour, target prioritization is so vital

Pros
>dakka
>pask
>tons of allies
>it's fun to try and hold off the obvious counters to you like skyhammer
>fast because you have barely any movement and no assault

Cons
>almost no mobility, if your 2-3 obligatory chimiras get popped you're barely going to be leaving deployment until the enemy is tabled
>can be seen as cheesy since not everyone brings tons of anti tank (their loss)
>some armies shit on you if you aren't very careful (skyhammer)

Overall I love my guardsmen, once you get your synergy really going it's hard not to enjoy them

Other than CAD, AdMech, and the new Iron Warriors decurion, what can take Fortifications?

>>50734860
Not an argument.

>"The war is over, Diocletian. Win or lose, Horus has damned us all. Mankind will share in his ignorance until the last man or woman draws the species' last breath. The warp will forever be a cancer in the heart of all humans. The Imperium may last a hundred years, or a thousand, or ten thousand. But it will fall, Diocletian. It will fall. The shining path is lost to us. Now we rage against the dying of the light."
- The Emperor

>"The war is over. Humanity has lost. Warhammer 40k - in all its Gothic, towering, Cylopean, decrepit, doomed, rotting Byzantine majesty - has taken its first irrevocable step."
- ADB, BL Author

>imagine bothering to play as ANY faction other than Chaos

Why are you even bothering?

Why play a game where the setting ending is decided for you?

>>50734879

I assume by 'cripple your enemy's army by turn 1-2' you mean against other mid tier armies?

>>50734752
Its resin. Its not technically Finecast(tm)

>>50734760
>it's been in several fluff pieces

Then you shouldn't have any trouble reciting them, because outside of Cain books, I don't remember any. It's always been Cain and the fluff not outright saying "no sexy for you" clearly in every codex. Meanwhile all the talk about isolationism, self-mortification, extreme denial, etc. are just pillow talk for all the steamy sex, apparently.

>Beast Arises series has a lesbian Inquisitor who enters the Sister of Silence fortress

So?

>>50734917
Same reason people play historicals.

>>50734822
Because they're mortal creatures?

>>50734874
Ok, and two other gods?

>>50734917
>Why play a game where the setting ending is decided for you?
Because the fluff changes all the time.

>>50734918
I saw that Guard were really low in the ITC results. I wonder why armies people played. I wonder what they were trying that was doing so poorly.

>>50734948
They look like daemons to me.

>>50734968
They have been shaped by chaos, but they're still beastmen

>>50734939
Can't remember them off the top of my head, but one of the Sister Diagolous was a representative to some Lord Governor and had sex with them.

>So?

My point being that it isn't some banned thing if the fucking Inquisitors have it.

>>50734968
Yeah well, I hear looking at your mom is hellish but she's not a daemon.

>>50734968
Same reason Spawn aren't daemons. think of Tzangors as stable, breedable, spawn

>>50734968
They're basically Beastmen.

Their first appearance was AoS and they're Tzeentchian Beastmen. In 40k they're the same idea. Humans warped into that form. Tzeentchian cultists, essentially.

>>50734963

Because it is generally a bad book? Even it's 'good builds' are mid tier at best.

>>50734918
Sorry I sounded a bit cocky, turn 1-2 is really important for me to get a lot of work done because usually a lot of my artilary will have been vaporized

Some armies really suck dick once their transports are blown up or just can't touch me when I wipe out their anti tank, I can take a lot of points of the board if I get some good rolls

Once I get super serious with the emperors wrath artilary formation and it's ignores coverS9-10 AP3-4 , Coteaz, and invisible pask rolling around deleting stuff up to and including knights, I'm not scared to go up against some higher tier lists

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How do I Grey'd Knight?

No, seriously, I'm finally trying to get into the tabletop and I like Grey Knights, but I feel like I have no fucking clue what I'm doing.

>>50734986
>one of the Sister Diagolous was a representative to some Lord Governor and had sex with them

In what?

>My point being that it isn't some banned thing if the fucking Inquisitors have it.

Inquisitors got nothing to do with the Adepta Sororitas, anon. Are you next going to tell me that because IG have sex, Marines have sex too? How does a lesbian entering a fortress mean SoB drink from the furry cup?

>>50734963
Guard do okay, but they desperately need allies to get very competitive

I see them with inq, space wolves, and of course eldar allies for filling holes like mobility

Oh and no good guard player leaves home without a void shield generator

>inB4 kill the guard wank dude

Sorry I just really like guard and am a bit tipsy so I can't help it

>>50734886
>implying we were arguing in the first place and not just me making fun of SoBcucks like you
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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>>50734459

What?!?

I have survived 2.5 turns of shooting with a lonely Deathwing commander from a full Tau list, only relying on a 4++ and cover. Jesus, he sure must have been out of luck!

>>50735037

I'm just always leery of the 'great' guard player because I meet them all the time. They're the guy who knows the secret to guard and if everyone just played the right list they'd see guard is a top tier army. I play in a ton of events and I rarely see any version of guard finish in the top 25% of the field.

>>50735070
>>50734986
OP of that pic here, no need to argue fellas, one of you is making some pretty retarded arguments, while the other doesn't realize they just need to play the "black library ain't canon" card to win instantly

Just posted it as a joke, let's leave the toxic arguments in the last thread

Why do people hate Tau so much? They got cool models and fluff, unless I'm missing something?

>>50735067
I'm just starting them too. From my understanding, the best play is to maximize xzibit knights

>>50735115
Helfrost, son.

>>50735125
Nah I'm not that egotistical, I just think with careful planning, and knowing your local meta guard can push past the mid tier mark even if only slightly

I really don't think my tourney scene is weak, we have grav spam, all flavors or eldar, skyhammer, and all that good competitive stuff, I've managed to pull top three for the past 4 months with guard, but it's never been easy, and took a lot of luck sometimes

>>50735079
I really like Guard too. When I played in 5th, I played very competitively, so coming back into 7th, it's more than a bit jarring to see them ranked so low and things like Tau and Eldar being seen as top tier. Back in the day we used to laugh when someone brought Tau or Eldar, now I hear people bitching about them and not wanting to face them. It's sort of like not seeing the nerdy meek kid for 7 years and then suddenly you see him after all the time and he's now super jacked and has been doing MMA for 6 years.

>>50735115
Nice OSL, my man.

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Crazy sale anon here

Pic related for $270

Wtf am I doing with my life

>>50735185

The problem with doing well in your local meta (in any environment with any army) is the question of weather you have good players or just good lists. My local store has a ton of power lists but almost no one capable of piloting them. I regularly take lower tier armies like CSM and Blood Angels and run tournaments at my shop against armies that are clearly better. The counter is I've been to some events where you run into dudes who REALLY know how to play and take armies like Tyranids and run rough shod over people.

Please note I am not criticizing you or your local just pointing out my personal experiences in that area,

>>50735216
How? Such DEALS.

>>50735033
I actually sort of wonder why Guard doesn't win when Forge World is allowed. You get discount artillery that can take orders (and you'll only ever issue the Ignores Cover order), which is the one thing that makes them better than the even more spammable Renegades artillery.

>>50735125
Have you seen IG armies whose cores are artillery carriages? What's their weakness?

>>50735216
>The Knights
I want one sooooo bad, but no dosh...

>>50735082
>using cucks as an insult
I want /pol/ to leave.

>>50735231
>when ForgeWorld is allowed
Why would it not be allowed?

>>50735216
warhammer is what is best in life

girls drool warhammer rules

>>50735251
>triggered by the word cuck because that's exactly what he is
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Tried last thread, didn't get much of a response. Any thoughts on my list? My intent is to have 1 russ and 2 squads each dedicated to anti-armor, anti-personnel, and a mid ground.

>>50735231

I've played against several full scale artillery companies - carriages and all. Even against the best artillery company you can field I can take my normal Corsairs list and level you. The problem is artillery is unbelievably susceptible to both alpha and beta strikes as well as strong reserve manipulation armies. The problem comes when a savvy opponent simply does not allow you to shell them - they use ruins to block barrage, stay in reserves or us 'unconventional' (read pods, scout, infiltrate) to start so close to you that you cannot engage you army the way you want to.

Have they put up the squad + transport bundles on their website yet? I need me a fucking rhino and some boys and I will not buy that shit separately.

>>50735171
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>50735230

LGS is liquidating because I was the only one buying.

>>50735239

I wanted one, but I'm not sure what I'm doing with the other. I have Sisters and Night Lords. I could do one for each, but idk. I want to magnetize it.

>>50735260

If that were true, I probably wouldn't be so lonely.

>>50735145
all Tau players ever seem to do is bring the fucking riptides.

I actually like a lot of tau models, and would love to play against them, but jesus fucking christ it may as well be codex riptide at this point. You never see stuff like hammerheads, fire warriors, broadsides with rail rifles, kroot, etc. etc. etc.

>>50735292
I was supposed to split Renegade with my bud but he never got in touch with me about it and now it's out of print.

>>50735301
>tfw I run 1 Riptide and all of those on a regular basis

>>50735278
chimerae WAY too expensive

>>50735301
my 1500pts army of tau got 3 ethereals, 35 fire warriors, 2 broadsides with rail rifles and a hammerhead.

we arent all bad.

>>50735231
you can't shoot at invisible death stars. There are some lists out there that you quite literally can't even shoot at, with weapons that are designed to indiscriminately bombard an area with fire and which you would think would be ideal for hitting targets that are invisible.

>>50735283
>The problem is artillery is unbelievably susceptible to both alpha and beta strikes as well as strong reserve manipulation armies.
I assume that these players are already bubble-wrapping their artillery with cheap infantry blobs. Have you played against any artillery lists that field Coteaz?

>they use ruins to block barrage
How does this work?

>>50735145
Their players have a reputation of being powergaming faggots.

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How viable are shooty Orks?

>>50735278
Needs more melee deterrence, and more AP2. A single demolisher won't cut it because your oponent will just target it first and then you have no way to deal with Termie deathstars and Riptides.

>>50735231
Their mobility is just shit, you can really just lock them in their deployment zone

I watch with envy as my dark eldar player zips around the battle field running circles around things not fast enough to catch them, but my guard have to stand their ground and hold the line to the last man, fluffy, but sometimes it feels like your chaining yourself to a tree as a bulldozer rushes it

>>50735222
I can't really argue this my dude, totally valid criticism, I THINK I'm good because I THINK my meta is dead 'ard, but I only have my perspective, for all I know we are all shit

I do have to say I have a friend who plays a mid tier army (DEldar) and he's a tough cookie just because he is a AAA player and should honestly just say fuck it and start eldar or tau, the same trick never works on him twice and he really is able to point out how inflexible my army is, giving your theory credence

>>50735301
FIreblade,1 Hammerhead(Railcannon with Submunitions),1 Razorshark, Kroot with 2 Krootox +2 Hounds

How bad am I?

>Considering starting tyranids
>Local meta is mostly MEQs

How do I go about starting the army? Or do I give up on not being tabled like a certain new release?

>>50735260
I've noticed almost every 40k player in my area, that isn't a young teenager, is either dating or married. There are like no single dudes which really surprised me.

>>50735349
Depends on what you're going up against.

>>50735383
Women don't give a shit about nerd hobbies when you grow up.

As long as you bring in a salary, dick them good, they don't give a shit if you spend hundreds of dollars on tiny plastic men.

>>50735332

Per the ITC all templates only hit 1 level of a ruin and barrage automatically hits the top most level that the center hole is over.

Even with Coteaz wrap a skyhammer annihilation force is astoundingly difficult to stop and really so any armies that deep strike extremely dangerous threats that your bubble wrap don't threaten. A DSing no scatter unit of Wraith's with D-Scythes can end multiple artillery pieces before you know what happened for example and hurt the bubble wrap. The big thing is pods don't care about bubble wrap because you ALMOST cannot mishap. Corsair 1D6 scatter reavers with double fusion hurt real bad (especially when your bubble wrapped got unwrapped by scat packs).

>>50735383
Same, kinda worrisome that me and one other guy are the only ones there not either very overweight and unattractive (I mean I'd consider myself 7/10 nothing special), married, a NEET who flunked college, or a combination

Sometimes I feel like I should be hanging out with a more successful crowd

>>50735278
god I hate the format this builder puts out.

Also your chimeras are way too expensive. They really don't need any upgrades at all except for maybe a dozer blade if you see a ton of terrain and want them to look cool. Also don't bother with heavy bolter turrets, multilasers are superior in every way except AP.

I wouldn't bother with the plasma in the command squad, just one gun won't do much and the medic won't be able to do much since most times a command squad gets shot at its with some leftover high strength weapon that's wasted on a platoon.

The punisher NEEDS heavy bolter sponsons, there's no point leaving them off. That's an extra 6 shots for just 20pts, why would you not take them.

Finally, mortars are terrible, as are grenade launchers. At least go GL/Autocannon if you want the classic standby. I would heavily recommend a platoon with lascannon and a platoon with autocannon, but that's just me. I also tend to use plasma or melta in my blobs because if I'm shooting at something I need it dead, and special weapons are not a good place to skimp on points. If you are hurting for points, even sniper rifles are better, since there's so many fucking Monsters around.

Finally, platoons NEED commissars. Each one. You have a lord, so you only need one more regular one, but without commissars platoons run far more than you would think.

Finally, your platoon command squads are all over the place. Platoon standards are literally useless, they do nothing for you. Unless you want the squad to look cool as it rides in the chimera, they have no purpose. Medics won't have time to do anything and are expensive. I would recommend keeping them barebones or at least swapping the standard and medic out for special weapons. Remember, you need some meatshields to eat wounds.

That's just on the first pass, there's other things I could recommend but that's a starting point.

>>50735401
I think it also helps that there aren't a lot of women who play 40k either. It's not an activity or hobby that has a lot of temptations for people.

>>50735414
Anywhere you go there will be a mixed bag of people. 40kers are a solid crowd, regardless of how fat and unattractive they sometimes are.

>>50735430
>god I hate the format this builder puts out.
I just wish it were bigger. I have to fucking squint to read half the shit posted from there.

>>50735411
>coteaz
>void shield generator
>guardsman bubblewrap
>cover saves

The four point defense helps soften the blow, I spend so much time setting up against alpha strike lists I usually apologize to the guy and tell him turn one will decide the game, sometimes you just have to say "what am I okay with loosing" and sometimes you just get your asshole fucked turn one

>>50735332

>How does this work

For ease of tournament play, at this event, if a Blast or Template weapon would hit models on more than one level of a ruin, the player making the attack must choose only one of the levels to hit. Non-Torrent Template weapons can only choose one level of a ruin above/below themselves. Barrage weapons automatically hit the highest level of a ruin that is under the hole in the center of the marker. Note that wounds caused by Blast/Template weapons in this case still follow the usual rules for wound allocation and casualty removal against the entire unit.

That's the ITC FAQ.

>>50735301
I have one riptide that I can't use because I have to fix the assembly and strip/repaint it.
But nobody would want to play me because I'd want to use my remora stealth drones.

>>50729847
>Purestrains the best melee unit in the game

Wulfen say hi and then AWOOOO

>>50728427
I don't understand how this works. Explain?

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So I haven't played since 5th or so. Thinking of getting back into it.

I was building a Grey Knights/Inquisition army before I left. Think I still have the boxes around here somewhere too. Figure I'll add some Tempestus guys in there, since they're kinda stormtroopers, right?

How dumb is this idea? Any list like this viable at all?

>>50735301
>>50735324
>>50735362
I wish I had you guys, I don't mind a riptide or two, I just get pissed off when the list is something like 75% of what I thought was some experimental new special forces unit. Plus it doesn't even look that good and they all have the same friggin pose, it looks like they're doing some sort of hokey pokey dance.

>>50735441
I was surprised to see three other girls at my local GW (on separate occasions). That being said, I don't think any of us are single.

>>50735459

How are you Alpha striking against armies that have good super heavies or GMC like Eldar that also bring void shields?

Why does Tau attract so many powergaming faggots?

>>50735459
>>50735411
>>50735283
So with all this being said, how do they make imperial guard great again next edition

Surely it's something better than "nerf deep striking and drop pods"

>>50735540
Because it's easy to powergame with Tau

>>50735540
They're 'Shooting Phase' the Army. Roll dice and win basically. You don't even have to move.

>>50735544
honestly if MC's were either nerfed a bit or vehicles were strengthened, it would fix a lot of IG's problems. The problem is hull points and the fact that the damage table really punishes shooting. Also the fact that they really want us to take sponsons on ordnance tanks that can even fire them RAW.

That and just some of the more insane shit from other armies needs to be toned down a bit. Our codex really didn't change must from last edition aside from vendettas and chimeras losing firepoints. Most of our units are actually cheaper.

The problem is vehicle damage punishes us horribly, the new missions focus on fast zippy armies when we're deliberately built to be slower and take time to get places, and all the other crazy shit like GMC's, superheavies, and armies composed solely of titans kind of defeat the point of even bringing guardsmen in the first place.

>>50735349

How many templates?

>>50735585
I've always wondered why there are so many BS3 vehicles. I meant it's the fucking 40k millenium, you'd think targeting technology would have improved somewhat.

Also why the fuck can't vehicles fire all of their weapons on the move? Even modern tanks can.

>>50735506
Right? I was surprised too to see so many girls playing at my local GW too. A few are on their own, and another is someone's girlfriend. The girlfriend is funny. She ended up being more competitive than the boyfriend and has been stomping him lately with comp tier armies and lists.

>>50735411
>>50735463
>Per the ITC all templates only hit 1 level of a ruin and barrage automatically hits the top most level that the center hole is over.
Wow, way to nerf artillery into the ground.

I would have thought that Coteaz actually inside an artillery unit would be able to throw three pie plates at anything that landed nearby, but then I realized that the very fact that it throws large blasts would make it impossible to hit a pinpoint deep striker. Maybe Medusa Siege Guns with breacher shells...

>>50735540
The Tau are not
Overgrown amoebas ruled by availability of resources like a bunch of aborigines (Tyranids)
Primitives (Orks)
Governed by insane gods (Chaos)
Handicapped by Dark Ages culture (Imperium)
Locked in a broom closet (Dark Eldar)
Old and feeble (Eldar)
Mindless and slower than molasses (Necrons)

t. non-Tau player

>>50735322

The funny thing is that renegade Knight would've been nice, but I'm probably going to do a Crusader for my Sisters. Megabolter and Inferno canon is too fluffy.

>>50735349
Shooty orks can work, youre either looking to put down templates or buckets of dice.

Imo take grukk instead of your warboss hes going to do more for you and hes cheaper.

Dakkas are still better than blitzas as the rocets are limited use on poor bs.

Id fine some space for a mob of tank bustas, youre very light on AT.

Take the ard case off the Gitz battle wagon you want them all to be able to shoot out of it and if your gaming group allows consider swaping out the looted wagons for big mek junkas they are a lot better with av 12 and included riggers, theyre more reliable and you can also load them up with scorchas for even more burn.

>>50735544

I think much of it would stem from either making the basic guardsmen better or reducing the prevalence of things like LoW. Guard pay to bring actually worthless bodies more than almost any other army in the game. I also think something that would help guard tremendously is better denial options.

I think a special rule something like the following would help a ton:

>Shelled to ruin - when 3 or more units with this special rule fire at a unit holding an objective that unit does not count as holding the objective in the next game turn.

Obviously that's a super rough draft, way too good, and needs a ton of work but the concept is there. If Guard are going to be a slow plodding army let them take advantage of their ranged tools to slow down your opponent's scoring while you get time to make your objectives.

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So actually on the subject of Tau what would be an unorthadox way to run an infantry heavy army list where about half of the 30 or so fire warriors have pulse carbines?
And what Big unit should I have for a neat centerpiece model of a Swamp-Fighting Cadre? I was thinking the Y'Vahra crashing down through foliage, but maybe a R'Varna wading through the muck?

>>50735672
Give IG some kind of quick unit that isn't a flier. Improve Rough Riders, perhaps. Or make a Bike unit. That'd be pretty badass.

>>50735544
Anything that makes parking lot artillery guard good makes the game miserable for everyone else.

>>50734669
Basically, everyone's mad because GW doesn't follow the rules they made. Not that many people can follow a 200 page rule book let alone several codexes

>>50735699
it really is odd that imperial guard doesnt have a bike unit.

>>50735675
Ghost keels sound more compatible with what you have in mind

Does anyone have the rules for the new Imperial Agents Plasma Syphon?

>>50734752
That is worst than my chinamam on a bad day. How the fuck?!

>>50735699

I think those are probably the more likely options but I'd love guard to maintain their slower, more methodical play style and get rules that support that play style.

>>50735699
I'd prefer Rough Riders to be bikes. 4 Toughness Guard with those lances would be great.

>>50735723
Not big enough, and I already have one.

>>50735585
All valid, extra armour should let you shoot at full Bs on the lower result (shaken/stunned fuck I confuse those so much

>>50735710
They didnt even follow the mission rules they set up to show off Anon. There's incompetence then there GW.

Do all Orks look the same?

Do all Tau look the same?

Do all Sisters look the same?

>>50735632
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>50734359
Where are the first two Space Wolf trilogies in the mega?

>>50735741
Yeah, and to be 100%, using actual Cavalry seems really close to more abhuman junk, and honestly is 0% SciFi. It's just a holdover from the old Dexes.

Just give them something like the old Hit-and-run rule and one-use melta bombs. What else, heavy stubbers perhaps?

>>50735752
Technically, yes. Doubly so for the poor sisters.

>>50734575
Yes, Eisenhorn is a great intro book/trilogy. It is my top recommendation for 40k.

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>*unsheathes powersword*
>*teleports behind you*
>nothing personell kidd

Was 40k invented by manchildren?

>>50735710

It isn't that hard though - plenty of people play the game by the book on a regular basis with no problems.

>>50735769
40k lives on the 'Literally everything is so edgy that they have to out-edge everyone at any given moment' like some odd sort of hyper-paradox.

>>50735760
I've always wanted to field them, but the horses part always seemed silly for the exact reason you said. 0% Sci-fi. I don't know how to field them as bikes either without heavy conversions that I'm not capable of.

>>50735769
>has to resort to bad anime meme when Dark Eldar exist

>>50735813
with dark eldar
*everything* is personal

>>50735808
DKOK Death Riders fit. Partly because the DKOK doesn't give a single fuck about casualties, partly because their horses are genetically engineered to be beefed up, fearless, and tough as hell.

>>50735703
Alright then...Elaborate please?

>>50735731
It's the same. It doesn't work unless somewhere on the rulebook says what are plasma weapons.

Yes the stupid thing talks about plasma weapons as describe in the rulebook. What the fuck is a plasma weapon no idea.

The intention is any plasma base weapon in 40k but beside things plasma something and the Tau guns I'm not sure what else could it mean.

>>50735699
I would fucking love to spam some biker units to zoom up and hold objectives and jynk their way up the field and melta bomb shit

>basically I want a cancerous unit too dad

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>>50735828
I'll have to look them up.

I just noticed Space Marines have Scout Bikers. I think if I use Guardsmen top halves, these could actually work quiet nicely.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Scout-Bike-Squad

>>50735544
What if it's "reduce point cost for guard units"?

>>50735483
Bump for myself here. I will admit that I'm more of a modeller than a hardcore meta-player but I do want to play the game, eventually. I'm just very slow going.

So from a bit of theoryhammering I'm thinking of running Grey Knight terminators for the hammer, a pair of Hellrain Brigades from Militarum Tempestus, and then...how the hell do I fit Inquisition in there?

Actually my original plan was to do the same idea but with Sisters instead, since I found a couple really neat ideas on how to custom build my own plastics.

But then...don't sisters work a lot better as their own unit? Or would a Tempestus/Sisters conglomerate work a lot better?

>>50735829

Parking Lot guard is a very boring army to play against. It doesn't move, it doesn't engage in close combat, it just shoots. Sometimes it wins big on Alpha Strike and wins early which is boring but if it doesn't win big it looses big. There is no close game against a parking lot, you either brought the tools to deal with it or you didn't. It is never an interesting or compelling game because there is never any real tension or actual game play. The Parking Lot player doesn't even really interact with his opponent outside having him roll saves.

>>50735848
Unfortunately the rules for the Rough Riders doesn't really match bikers. And AFAIK if you aren't taking Vendettas/Valkyries as guard, you fucked up.

>>50735853
Idk man, all the leman russes got a price drop but one, and wyverns are retardedly cheap, what units are you thinking need a drop?

>>50735861
This is why I don't want to be that player. I want to have fun units that push forward like blobs of Guardsmen, Bullgryn, Rough Rider bike models and stuff like Straken or Hell Hounds. I want to play aggressive Guard.

>>50735870
True, they don't match them, but as a count as model it would be fun. The aesthetic is much nicer than horses.

>>50735882
I totally agree. Especially if you were to run something like a Death Planet guard army and have them as some sort of Mad-Max aesthetic.

Where do I have to go to get SoB's with long hair?

>>50735861
Mostly valid critique, I've played lists where people just GG me turn three because "I can't touch you man"

I find it's a lot of comboing off well and reliably killing what needs to die before it can take you out, which kinda sounds tau like which is bad

Guard sit back and bomb you until either you die or you get to them and kill them, I wish there were units like bikes I could actually send on mission to do shit and actually interact with the player more

>but then again if you're at a tourney the whole point is bringing the best list you can and people respect that where I play so I don't feel bad then

>>50735910
Wyches or daemonette models.

>>50735910
If you want Sisters, you're not looking at GW. There's that garbage rumour of Q1 2017 for plastics but you're probably SoL.

That being said, I've heard good things about Victoria Minis. There's some other companies with really good female heads. It's just that mostly the hair clips with the armor in the back.

>>50735144
>"black library ain't canon"
Black Library is the publishing arm of GW. It's exactly as canon as everything else is when it comes to fluff.

That's like saying that Chevy, GMC, and Cadillac are all different companies and aren't the same car, when in reality they're all General Motors vehicles and designs.

Cars probably aren't the best analogy because of how cars actually work, but it's solid enough

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>>50735861
The worst part is that that style of IG army is objectively the worst army the guard can field right now. So not only is your army unfun to play against, it sucks too.

Honestly the strongest IG armies right now (at least pure IG codex) run nothing but infantry. They're almost a perfect inverse of 5th ed leafblower lists.

Hell, I honestly am starting to think conscripts are one of our best units. 3pts a guardsman, even at BS 2 is just fucking the bees knees and all you need is a 25pt commissar or priest to buff their leadership. Hell if you take a commissar, you have a 31 man unit with ld 9, stubborn, and a surprisingly high amount of shots with FRFSRF.

The problem is that the codex gets stronger the more infantry you take. But the more infantry you take, the more crowded your deployment gets and the more susceptable to templates you are. So you end up needing to take things like ratlings and stormtroopers because you just don't have space for models in your deployment zone anymore and that's your best option. Between orders, pyskers, and just a stupid amount of bodies, infantry guard can be surprisingly good, at least compared to tanks.

The key is to actually fucking move up. Everyone thinks guard has to cower in their deployment, but if you really want to make your opponent sweat, act like you're going to gunline with a 200+ guardsman list, then on the first turn start moving every model up. The "oh fuck" look the opponent gets is priceless. Plus, with all the MC's right now, as long as its T6 or less you can kill it with lasguns. Compared to 5th ed where all people ran was fucking tanks, there's a lot more instances where lasguns can carry their weight now. That, and watching the guard player losing an entire unit and saying "right, those 30 guys were 115pts, they paid themselves off just by making you shoot at them."

>>50735769
Yes, just like most other science fiction, settings, video games, etc.

>>50735983
Good god though, think of how long it'd take to build and paint a guard-blob army. I'd imagine I'd just quit after your deployment takes a whole hour anyway.

>>50735983
I want more infantry for my Guard, but painting that many models is insane. I've been working on about 20 and I'm almost done with 20 and I've lost my mind. I don't know what to do.

My goal right now is to attempt to do 3 Guardsmen a day. Hopefully in a month I can have a big force.

>>50735997
This. I can't imagine having more than 60-80 bodies anyway. Moving that many is crazy.

>>50735974
>It's exactly as canon as everything else is when it comes to fluff.
Which means its vague, misinformation or a legend from a forgotten time. People try to force BL as 'the' canon story, but it isnt.

>>50735974
Saying BL is canon is like saying Walkers are vehicles.

>>50734562
>primer still stuck to nails
Are you me?

>>50735997
honestly if you organize your trays, not that long. Each platoon gets a tray, and you prepack them for your list before you leave. If you count people having to roll up pyschic traits as deployment, I can deploy faster than armies that spam psychic shenanigans.

Your deployment is literally

Wall of conscripts============Wall of conscripts

Blob A PCS BLOB B PCS BLOB C

With the CCS and final PCS mixed in wherever you think they work best. If youre not an autist exactly measuring 2" between every model it's not hard. Especially since many models will die early on, you don't need to be like some wolfstar faggots who will take 20 minutes trying to hide every goddamn model and eat up all your time.

Remember, many guardsmen will die in the first two turns, so it'll speed up pretty quickly. Also, I have a grand total of maybe 10 rules I need to remember, and only a list of orders that I always get and the warlord trait as things I need to roll.

>>50736008

As for painting, I paint a platoon at a time. As insane as it sounds, it's actually very rewarding once you get through the first few basecoats. Watching 50 models get knocked out feels very liberating and is a great morale boost. Just have a 6 pack chilled in the fridge and a marathon of Archer lined up and you're golden.

Best advice I can give you is either

>A, accept they're faceless meatshields and give them an average,, easy to bashout paintjob or

>B, My method, make every platoon different for easy recognition, and give them badass conversions so each unit feels like a new experience.

For reference, my army has

>Metal 3rd ed Cadian platoon
>Victoria Lamb "oh my god they're fucking gorgeous" arcadian platoon
>converted Valhallan platoon with matching conscript platoon
>heavily converted Catachan platoon with matching boonie hats
>40 metal Starship Trooper Mobile Infantry that I use as conscripts for shits and giggles.

>>50735983
You forgot priests

Based off tourney wins it's an even split between blob guard and parking lot, but that's hyper competitive so it doesn't count

Blob guard can be fun, but just way too squishy imo, there are armies that put out over 100 shots a turn, almost all punching through your armour, so even if you run hundreds and hundreds of guard you still won't have many left by like turn 3, also holy fuck who wants to paint that many guardsmen, I know people who enjoy assembly line painting but there's gotta be a limit

I do have to say I love forcing a couple failed 2+/3+ saves and having a squad of ten guys get their points back, weight of fire is nice to have, which is why I bring at least 55 guardsmen even in my parking lot list

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>>50736067
Don't judge me...

>what's a matter boy you smash your thumb or something?

Work can be annoying after a priming session

>>50736079
I wish I could paint that many like you. I can't paint well, so no matter what they will have a very mediocre paint job. I can't do a huge amount at once either. I did the 20 where I went armor, cloth, face, gun and I went nuts. Seeing and thinking about how much there is left is not only daunting for me, but also demoralizing and angering. I think I have to do just a few at a time over the course of a while or I will come to resent them.

>>50736085
I really don't care for priests unless its conscripts. LD 9 is so important for orders and being able to retreat from combat or go to ground are good abilities to have.

Also, commissars look cooler and are much easier to get.

Not saying priests are bad and don't have a place, they just don't fit my style.

Also, as an addendum to >>50736079 Keep in mind I'm not a huge tourney guy. Blob guard is not taking 1st place at Adepticon or anything. It holds its own just fine in my meta and that's fine for me. Playing 40k on a competitive tournament meta is a recipe for madness, if I want tournaments I play X-Wing for that. 40k is my chill out and reenact codex pictures game.

I've been playing for a long time too so for me the IG codex is pretty much memorized so it's not too hard for me to play even a 200 man army.

>>50734917
This is my favorite meme

>>50736079
In about to paint about 100 guardsmen for my army and only have 3 weeks while schools out, can I get some pics of yours? I need some encouragement to know it's actually possible

>>50736079
I second this. >>50736141 I would love some pics of your Guardsmen so I can get some encouragement. I have a lot to paint too.

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>>50734506
I think its right below the new artwork in the book. The page where they explain how genestealer hybrids are made. Here is an example of the artwork from it.

>>50735216
could you not have got 2 knights with the renegade kit?

>>50736222

He only had the 2 Wardens, which iirc can make them all.

What would be the best way to represent an ecclesiarchy battle conclave that isn't SoB?

>>50735934
Has anyone attempted garage kit sisters?

>>50736023

Yeah, but it's also just as canon as everything (save what is actually in a Codex, which is often vague and doesn't get into great detail about specific events not directly related to combat) and therefore is considered to be on par with everything else when it doesn't conflict with existing lore.

If the lore directly conflicts, the best thing to do is try and reconcile the two, but you're always free to pick and choose. Just understand that, by picking and choosing, you're probably gonna come into conflict with others about it.

>>50736322
Guard or Skitarii probably.

>>50736322
Guard

Or Renegades and Heretics without the Chaos units, which is entirely doable.

>>50736322
Guard or the new IA formation of 100 Crusaders.

>>50735983
The problem with conscripts is that you can't just take conscripts (and nobody wants to paint 300 conscripts).

If there were an Emperor's Blood Expendable Reserves formation that was just 50 conscripts and a commissar, it would be one of the best formations in the game.

>>50735983
When would elietes be required for guardsmen? And don't you need a platoon command squad per one squad of conscripts?

>>50736346
What? Is that real?

>>50736346
What

>>50735216
Can I have your drop pods?

>>50736359
>>50736365
iirc, lets you take 2-10 units of Crusaders and Death Cult Assassins, and a Priest.

As a single unit.

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>>50736141
>>50736178
tell ya what, To show solidarity I'll bust out my newest platoon and see how much I can knock out in a few hours. Sorry for taking a bit it took me a while to dig these out and my paint.

These guys have only had the bases (literally just glued gravel with martian earth painted over a single coat, not finished.) and a couple coats of lead belcher, khorne red, and Cadian fleshtone. Aka purely basecoats at this point, the easiest part as its just get drunk and slap paint on.

Sorry for shit pics, not in a great photo enviornment. As you can see nothing fancy right now. I'm not particularly sleepy so I'll go for 2-3 hours and see if I can have em all done. I'm no golden demon but I can do an ok tabletop standard.

All done meaning all detail bits, wash, and a drybrush. Pretty sure I won't be 100% but you never know. Time is currently 11:52, let's see what happens.

If you want updates I can out em in WIP but for the most part I'll probably just do the final pics when I'm done.

>>50736330
Traitor Legions just completely ignored BL's heresy series. This is what is meant by everything is canon. There is no cohesive, comprehensive story like BL is trying to tell. All they are doing is telling one of the many different versions of events. When people jump in and say BL is canon they generally dont mean this however. They mean it is THE canon version of events, which is where the BL isnt canon meme comes into account. Its two groups arguing around the meaning of the word canon. But this is rarely addressed sadly.

I think youre agreeing with me so I'm more making this point in general.

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>>50736404
and an up close.

I'll leave the thread open on my desktop in case anyone replies but for the most part will be busy painting.

Be strong comrade, for the emperor.

>>50736414
>>50736404
That's the kind of motivation I need. I want my mans to be all in uniform and ready. Are those the models that came before the Cadians? They look like the guys on the cover of Cityfight.

>>50736141
>>50736178
>>50736404
>>50736414
i want to start running guard and seeing 200+ model armies makes blood angels all the more appealing

>>50736426
Yep, I actually converted a guy up to be the cityfight guy for another platoon but he isn't ready yet.

>>50736106
I'm not judging. It happens to me too

>>50736404
Very Team Fortress 1.

>>50736414
I mean it's not the absolute greatest painjob ever, but certainly table top quality, and with the volume you crank out that's most def an awesome tradeoff, certainly encouragement to try and knock out a few platoons then really finely paint a couple command squads, I doubt anyone will notice in a sea of conscripts

>>50735859
Okedoke. Last bump. I think I'm running into an issue here because I end up liking all of these armies for various reasons, but they all don't work super well together.

I think my best bet is to run a main block of Sisters, with Tempestus and Tauroxes to back them up with speed. Add in the Inquisition for combat henchmans, add priests, and I might be on to something.

Anyone have any advice or anything in this regards at all? Seems like I'm just discussing this with myself in the thread currently.

>>50734359
Anyone know of a good Count As model for Straken?

>>50736374

No, they're going to be Dread Claws.

>>50736603
I feel like Dread Claws would actually be okay for delivering Chosen + Sorceror buffer + Lord beatstick.

Alpha Legion makes it redundant, though (- the Independent Characters).

>>50736589
If noone is replying to your posts it generally means noone in the threads plays the army in question. Try posting the same questions again later whilst reading up yourself. 1d4chan tactics articles is always a good place to start.

>>50736560
They're not done, this is basecoats. I'm painting them the rest of the way right now.

>>50736589
Sorry anon, sometimes no one wants to take on the daunting task of helping someone get the grasp of the entire game, they get intimidated by the giant text block and they think you don't know shit

Try asking very specific questions in small digestible chunks (they can't tell if you're same fagging)

>what rolls do SoBs fill best?
>how are scions as a small fast elite ally
>which of these armies would make a better primary force
>what's the best way to run inquisition ally's?

People are more likely to answer small questions, and yeah sometimes the thread just ignores you, it happens, try again next general
Also 1d4chan is your best friend for noob questions
Don't give up and hobby on my dude!

>>50736645
>>50736702
Appreciate it. I'm plodding around on 1d4chan now taking notes and making mock-lists as best I can. I do get the hint that not a lot of folks know how to help me, but that's fine. I'll figure it out eventually.

>Night Lords
Demon of Tzeentch with wings and Stormbolt armour, as the armour is 2+, and it can reroll ones, that means it is invincible to non AP2, night lords means a decent cover save, and a 2+ jink yeah?

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>Kakophoni (4 stationary squads, 2 in rhinos)
>Raptor Talon (2 melta raptor, 1 warp talon)
>Sorcerer(ML2)

Kitted out it comes out to around 2k points

y/n?

>>50736737
>making mock-lists as best I can.
If you're making you own custom conglomerate force it will be hard to find people with first hand knowledge. Asking how best to field a unit of scions or GK termis will be easier.

also use
>https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#/rosterCreator
from the OP to organize your stuff easier.

apocalypse tomorrow I finally get to use the actual stats of my scabeiathrax for him to eat a destroyer 6 again. I'm thinking of asking if we can just choose our warlord trait or something so i can pick the escalation one where they minus 1 from the destroyer result. Maybe ill get lucky and just roll a 4 anyway.

>>50736638

Hey, my chaos is Night Lords, so...

But the chosen, hell yes.

Would the game be better or worse if players could pick their warlord traits and or psychic powers without rolling?

>>50736799
Yeah, and looking at my 'that looks cool, lets think about adding that' sort of list here, I'm looking at like 4 different allies? Assassins, Inquisition, Tempestus, and Sisters.

Also that site doesn't seem to have Sisters on it, otherwise it looks really neat. I downloaded Battlescribe but I've heard its notoriously inaccurate at times.

I think I mainly understand the do's and don'ts for the most part, but I've never played any of these armies. Hell, I used to play Orkz back in the day. So this is all newish to me all over again.

My main issues are basically what holes to plug with what. So I run a Sisters main, that means I need some fast backup and/or assaulty units so I can actually shoot what needs to be shot.

In theory this means I can run some tempestus scions as allies to deep strike, probably with meltaguns. And then I can take some Inquisitorial Warbands in...some kind of transport to help with the assaulty bit.

That's the working theory. I realize I'm writing out text blocks again but unfortunately I'm not good at writing shorthand.

>>50736844
Worse. They would need to unfucks the disciplines and trait tables first.

It would make TS viable, though, which would be neat.

>>50736852
You actually might be lucky over the next couple of days/weeks as there should be more discussion around the Imperial Agents supplement which is basically what you're talking about.

From what I've heard it needs a FAQ already so that should generate even more discussion.

tfw no Agents epub yet

>>50736911
Yeah I've been looking at the leaks and it seems I picked a good time to try and get back into the game. Shame that the damn book is like 80 bucks or something? Maybe that's just pre-order.

Currently the list I'm going with is nearly entirely sisters and I'm at like 1900 points.RIP.

>>50736933
Dont buy the book till you need it Anon. Get it from the OP when its out.

>I'm at like 1900 points.RIP.
Time to trim the fat lol.

>>50736909
>Worse. They would need to unfucks the disciplines and trait tables first.
Why worse? the tables being fucked just means you get fucked on a dice roll. why not get around this by letting the players choose.

>>50736946
Well, I went with what looked good from the Sisters 'dex without thinking of the allies I wanted to take. Regardless of anything, the 'Hellrain Brigade' formation seems way too good to pass up. I think I got it down to about 380 points (Command with 4 Hotshot volley guns, vanilla commissar, taurox with autocannon and missiles) and the scions as suicide melta-gunners. Tbh, I kinda want to take two of these just because they're a huge distraction downfield to let my sisters move up.

I'm also not a big fan of mechanized lists, so this fits well.

>>50736797
I'm 0/2 with this list; your positioning of the noise marines has to be flawless and if your reserves fail you're sol

>>50736990
I may drop it down to 3 squads of noise marines so I can pile in the maulerfiend formation or a daemon prince/daemonettes

>>50736963
if you scale it where the best spells in a discipline are at least 30 points, and warlord traits are 20 points max then sure. i wouldn't mind getting the run + charge warlord trait and invisible on my keeper

>>50736797
You have pretty low AA and AT potential for that points level. It depends on your meta of course.

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>>50736590
You don't like the official one?

>>50736785
answer me please

>>50737125
He's cool, just ill fitting for how my army looks. I think I'm going to use the Command Squad Powerfist arm with the robotic sword arm. I just need to find a cool head to put on. There's the eye patch Guardsman head which I like, but I also found a good head from the Manticore sprue that has a bandanna that I kinda like. I'm also considering a Space Marine head, but probably not.

Now I just have to come up with the proper army list to use Straken in. Priests, Blobs, Bullgryn, Psykers, Commissars, and maybe Karamazov. Not sure what else to add, but at that point, I'm probably looking at close to 2k points.

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Who TS dustwing here?

No idea how to actually built this list just playing with the builder.

>>50737127
>"No single die maybe re-rolled more than once".
-Rulebook page 11.

So it's just a 1/36 chance to fail an armor save for the Prince.

so I was offered an army of tau that includes fire warriors, 2 broadsides, commander farsight, and some crisis suits for about 80 dollars. Another guy offered me a new codex plus a set of fire warriors for 50.

My question is, is this a good deal and is there any down side to going second hand as a beginner/newbie?

>>50737216
Ahhh of course. How awesome.

>>50737252
It seems like a good deal to me without knowing how many firewarriors you're getting. The downside is that you dont get the experience of constructing and painting your dudes. This isnt a downside to everyone though, and even a positive to others. Only other downside is if theyre painted like crap.

>>50737252
The only problem is that tau are gay as fuck.

>>50737301
I dare you to say that to my face you faggot

Newfag here with a couple questions:

1) are dark elder competitive and if so what does that look like typically?

2) I heard 8th edition is coming out in the spring and might be getting a pretty big overhaul. Is there anything to that rumor and would I be better off waiting till the new edition drops before jumping in?

Are there any pictures or descriptions of what the Frateris Templar actually looked like? And do we know if they would be trained/equipped better than guardsmen at the time or would they be the same just under control of the Ministorum?

>>50736963
Because suddenly every death star always has Invisibility and Veil of Time up all the time.

>>50737373
>1) are dark elder competitive and if so what does that look like typically?
Nope, they are way bottom on the powerlist

>2) I heard 8th edition is coming out in the spring and might be getting a pretty big overhaul. Is there anything to that rumor and would I be better off waiting till the new edition drops before jumping in?
Probably, we haven't had any updates to codices in quite a while.
If you know which faction you are certainly better of to start now as core units will retain their usefulness (mostly) so you can start painting etc. If you like competitive, i believe there are more competitive games out there

>>50737208
>Terminator Armor and Aura of Dark Glory
You should actually read what everything is first.

Thousand Sons (sans Magnus) are absolutely terrible. Anything other than the most poorly built casual lists will steamroll you thanks to your poor shooting output and abysmally low model count.

>>50737373

Don't worry about being "competitive" when you start. Worry about what you like. If you like what you buy, you'll get a lot more satisfaction out of them because you'll actually want to paint them and make them look good.

If you come into this game with the mindset of needing to always be the best army or whatever, you'll almost always get the short end of the stick in the long run. You'll have a collection of unpainted half armies that look like shit, aren't being used, and/or don't really interest you.

That being said, Dark Eldar are fine, but expect to lose and lose hard. They're not a top tier army, but that won't matter much unless your lgs is WAAC fags. Where some armies are rocks, you're a glass canon. Everything in your army that isn't a frankestien monster will die to a stiff breeze. Don't let that discourage you. Once you git gud, that won't matter because your opponent will be dead. They also have an amazing model line.

As for 8th, hard to say. Rumors say change in summer, but don't let it stop you.

If you do want to start with deldar, you can't go wrong with the SC! Box. Venoms are good, scourges are good, Ravagers are decent, Grotesques and Talos are good (check out the supplement if you like them). Unfortunately, Wyches and Mandrakes aren't very good at all.

>>50737473
>If you like competitive, i believe there are more competitive games out there

its not that I want to win all the time, but Its no fun to get blown the fuck out every game either. Sad Dark Eldar are not good. I hope that changes. Maybe Ill paint up some stuff anyways just cause the aesthetic appeals to me.

>>50737373
>Is there anything to that rumor

Most likely yes.

>would I be better off waiting till the new edition drops before jumping in?

Well it depends on how competitive you want to be. A new edition will probably mean shifts in the meta. But at the same time, these are unlikely to be major shifts. The good codices are good because they're not entirely reliant upon one or two special rules. For example, if Grav gets nerfed in 8th edition, this would hurt Space Marine armies, but they still have good tools to fall back on. Similarly, a nerf to Gargantuan creatures and D weapons would hurt Eldar, but they have other great options too.

Playing the "wait and see" game can also be taken to the logical conclusion of waiting for a new edition of your codex, in which case you probably won't be able to start your army for several years. My advice is just to get in and do it if you want to play; your army will still be playable, it just might need tweeks depending on what comes to pass.

>>50737475
Anon I was obviously just fucking around and playing with the new formations. I just wanted to see what you could do with T5 termis theres no need to be butt hurt unless your sad about the TS release as well =(

You were right about this
>>Terminator Armor and Aura of Dark Glory
I forgot that they got invulnerable as well.

Still I think 3 groups of shrouded, invisible T5 termis harnessing on 3+ in telepathy with 21 WC would be funny.

>>50737519
if you dont mind not havin a tournament-worthy army and just something more solid then a flimsy army, you can ally DE with craftworldeldar to make your list stronger. These alliances happened in the stories quite often.

>>50737517
>don't worry about whether the army is fun to play, goy, just buy more plastic
>Dark Epdar are fine
>you're going to lose all the time
Assholes like you are a cancer on the community.

>>50737125

This was like the golden era of GW sculpts. Just enough detail and proportions to look great, but without becoming super streamlined and CAD like the current modern digital sculpts.

You can tell it was handsculpted, but it has no imperfections.

>>50737592

>continually buying fotm is better than building an army you like

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What should I do with my last 70 points,
Help me fa/tg/uys, you're my only hope /tipfedora

>>50737614

I think his point was "don't say DE are fine because they're obviously not". He even contradicts himself in the same sentence, saying DE are fine...they're just going to lose every single game. How is that fine?

New players should stick with what they like, because unless you give them a Tau or Eldar netlist they're going to lose most of their games anyway, but some new players may quit the game if they start with an army as absolute shit as DE and Orks and they find out even with their strongest armies they may very well lose 100% of their games.

Would YOU play this game if you had a 0% chance of victory? That is a legitimate concern for new DE players.

>>50734537
Curious, did you think there was anything that was a huge improvement over 5th? Anything that felt like a step back from 5th? And did it feel faster/slower? And what were you up against?

>>50737617
having 2 meltaguns for all raptor squads is a decent start

could do with more spawn


sidenote, 3 oblits are worse then 3x 1 oblit as you cannot shoot at different targets while havin exactly 0 benefit

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>>50736977
Now does not seem like a great time to start a sisters army, my man. The rumors wax and wane but there's a non zero chance of them getting an entirely new model range and you don't want to have just spent every haypenny you've ever accumulated on expensive metal.

Hellrain is interesting. I've only fielded it once, but it tends to draw a great deal of your opponents ire towards the commissar as they seek to murder him to stop your re enforcement. I really enjoy using the scions, but man do I wish they had a nice, small valkyrie based formation. Scions definitely benefit from any reserves manipulation you can bring.

Grey knight terminators are interesting. I haven't actually used my knights this edition - the last I used them was in 6th with the 5E codex, though I'm familiar with the changes. It's my understanding that its essentially no longer optimal to pay points for the minimal benefit halberds now offer (but fuck the police I'd probably be doing it anyways because they're the classic weapon). I always enjoyed fielding a daemonhammer wielding justicar - I liked master crafting, but now that it's 10 points I wouldn't bother. The bog standard GK detachment is pleasant enough. I think it's something like 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 1 Troop mandatory? I might be wrong. It lets you deep strike in turn one, which can absolutely be powerful.

Since I'm coming back to the smell of blood around IA, I'm probably in a similar boat to you. I used to play daemonhunters back in the day with mostly inquisitorial storm troopers and a few knights. I've been trying to readjust ever since the warddex and had moved on to other armies.

I'm currently playing with the idea of a malleus inquisitor leading a big mob of melee scrubs, then a GK librarian with some terminators and allied scions in valkyries. I'm pretty sure the GK detachment actually has a fortification slot for once so I'd spring for something with a comms relay and.. that's as far as I've gotten.

>>50737614
It is better to buy an army that you'll like, but don't try to mask the absurd imbalance in the game.

>>50737647
Thanks for the advice, I do always split my oblits up when I play (have Death Guard)
2 meltas each, okay good idea.

>>50737632

Actual question here, no memes, no jokes.

I play Orks, my friend plays Deldar.

Our matches usually come down to who rolls better. They're close, but damned don't I hate his jinking boxes. His 2++ shadow armor save on the archon is a monster too. Splinter racks seem very strong. We don't play with formations, just CAD's.

Why do people think Deldar are so weak?

>>50737587
>asks for feedback
>gets it
>whines about the tone of the feedback
Get fucked, you whiny cunt.

Shrouding does fuck all for those Terminators. God luck consistently generating 3 sets of Invisibility.

>>50735021
>Their first appearance was AoS
First recent appearance.

>>50737632

Yes because they can still win? I'd rather learn to play with a hard army than get lazy with an op army, especially if I have a 0% chance to win anyway because I'm new. He's obviously interested in Deldar, and if that's the case, why not go for what he likes over something that doesn't interest him as much?

>>50737673

Exactly. The imbalance is retarded, but not every person who plays 40k is a net listing gray tide despite what 4chan believes.

>>50737693
>Our matches usually come down to who rolls better.

yeah i hate when you have to roll dice

>>50737693

Because it's a hot meme and every 40k player alive except you is playing SM/Daemons/Eldar, donor you don't play them, you automatically lose.

>>50737587
Why would you want shrouded when you have a better invuln save?

I am super curious how maximum dustwing would actually play in action.

>>50737704

I don't get it.

>>50737644
The store man used a demo Chaos army that wasn't really optimized at all since he just grabbed models from the demo case. He basically just ran units across the table at me and I spammed away with my vehicles. I'm sure it bored him to death. It felt a lot like a 5th edition game and I know he took it easy on me because he's more of a competitive player. What really threw me off was 2 Fireports on the Chimeras, all the Snapfiring, the lack of Lumbering Beheamoth and the Flyer rules as well as Flying Monstrous Creature.

Reading about various other powerful units from other armies, I started to wonder how I'm going to deal with them as Guard. I like that Plasma feels a lot more useful than in 5th. It was kind of a joke back then. I'm super happy that you can rapid fire at 24 inch range on the move. I like that this edition sort of gets rid of all the usefulness of vehicle spam we had in 5th. I'm sad about all the things removed from the 5th edition Guard dex. Chenkov was a big part of my army every time. I feel like Ordnance kinda blows now on Russ tanks. I've always been about volume of fire and this edition seems to promote that so I'm pretty happy.

I'm not sure how to feel about this edition yet. I miss some things from 5th, but there's some neat stuff in this edition that I'm not too let down. The game felt fast, but it was only 1k points and he had short shooting phases. Right now I'm trying to create a few lists for the future to run. I want to do a more balanced hybrid list of blobs, artillery, front line tanks and plasma/melta vets.

>>50737693
>I play Orks

I'm going to stop you right there. Also Ignores Cover is a thing, and DE don't even get to take any saves at all against things like Heavy Flamers, even if they're hiding in a vehicle. Vehicles which can be destroyed by regular bolters.

>>50737703
>He's obviously interested in Deldar, and if that's the case, why not go for what he likes over something that doesn't interest him as much?

I never said not to pick DE, faggot. I'm telling you why someone is calling you cancer, and frankly I can plainly see why.

>>50737736
Sorry, Chaos Marine army, forgot to finish that. He had a few squads of Marines with Mark of Khorne. I can't remember if any were Berserkers. He had a Predator with Lascannons, a Demon Prince with Wings and a Helldrake. He also had some I forgot the name, but they had jetpacks and lightning claws.

>>50737703
DE are not "fine". None of what you're saying matters or is relevant. DE are not fine. Period.

Daily reminder that corsairs are a fluffier and better way of playing dark eldar than dark eldar.

>>50737695
You seem overly mad about something Anon. Are you ok?
Seriously I'm just playing around and you seem mad Im having fun with the builder.

>No idea how to actually built this list just playing with the builder.
This is what I stated in my first post. I seriously have no idea why you are so triggered.

>>50737726
>Why would you want shrouded
You wouldn't I'm just an idiot and was trying to think of things that stack within 6 inches as thats how close you have to be for the toughness boost.

>I am super curious how maximum dustwing would actually play in action.
TEQ has almost always been bad but it would be funny to test out IMO.

What's the best way to make an assault unit for a Dread Claw? As Night Lords, I got Raptors as troops, so my FA is open, which means I don't need to worry a out them being dedicated. I kinda want to run something stupid like 4 Termies with a few LCs and an axe/fist accompanied by a lord and a sorcerer. Chosen are an option because they can take claws or power weapons, but they're really pricy.

My idea is probably stupid, but I want to at least try.

>>50737790
Im mostly wondering how all that psykering would play out against your average army.

There's definitely some weird combinations with daemons beyond the obvious pink horror garbage. Like a mass of jetbike disc heralds and jetbike disc sorcerors jump psyk boosting around like maniacs. Or screamers with close combat disc sorceror. Throw in a squad of sons with the magic flying book. SUPER FAST FLYING ROBOT ARMY.

Which is the better choice competitively, KDK or the new Deathguard?

>>50737908
Hard to say. Both look good. DG is better generalist, KDK can build a mean deathstar.

>>50737693
They have no defense against psychic heavy armies other than to sit there and take it.

Their shooting is outclassed by the heavy fire power if other armies, in preticular any kind of army with ways to rush flamer/template weapons up the board or ways to ignore cover saves.
Once you deny them cover saves they fold like wet paper.

They seem to have am empirical on close combat in their codex but a real melee army would trash them in a fight while lacking cost effective options to beat opponents who are less optimal in melee than they are.

>>50737863
Daemonic Instability, brah. Can't mix mortals and Chaos Daemons daemons in a unit.

Thousand Sons psykers are still hampered by losing 1-2 spells to Tzeentch plus everything being massively overcosted.

>>50737790
Neck yourself.

What do you guys think about my list? I call it enjoy ur vortex of doom.

Waagh Ghazkull detatchment

Big Mek in Mega Armour, Bosspole, Mega Forcefield 155

Weirdboy Warphead 70

Tankbustas 15 with Nob 205

Tankbustas 15 with Nob 205

Ork Boyz Shootasx10 70

Ork Boyz Shootasx10 70

5 Mek Gunz 5 Kustom Mega Kannon, 20 Grots 180

Aegis defense line, Quad gun 100

Ork Horde detatchment

Weirdboy Warphead 70

Weirdboy Warphead 70

Weirdboy Warphead 70

Ork Boyz Sluggasx10 60

Ork Boyz Sluggasx10 60

Ork Boyz Sluggasx10 60

Deffkopta, rokkits 30

Deffkopta, rokkits 30

Ork Cad

Weirdboy Warphead 70

Weirdboy Warphead 70

Gretchin Squad, 10 Grots, 1 Runtherd 35

Gretchin Squad, 10 Grots, 1 Runtherd 35

Lootas x15 210

Skyshield Landing Pad: 75

2k points.

>>50737863
Sadly sorcs cant join screamer stars Anon. Demonic instability cock blocks that unless thats changed?

> how all that psykering would play out against your average army.
Probably not that well as psychic powers are much better as a force multiplier yet the TS have very little to base that off. Witchfires tend to be rather lackluster in my experience.

>>50737938
>Didn't read OP about list rating formatting
>Doesn't realise no one will help him

>>50737936
> losing 1-2 spells to Tzeentch
rolling siphon magic would actually be a great boon to a list like this.

If I have a vehicle in a CAD and ally a formation of the same faction, can that detachment start the game embarked in the CAD vehicle?

>>50736414
>>50736447
Don't forget GSC neophytes also make good guardsmen if you give them a head swap.

>>50737946
They dont have the ork horde detatchment.

>>50737963
Yes

>>50737693
their problems are many
-your armor is weak, while th models are rather expensive
-they lack any medium strength shooting of note, so if you go against a list with many transports (trukk,rhino etc) they literally cannot kill them. The only weapon they really have is a sorta-lascannon, which produces rather few shots and is good against heavy armor (lance rule).

Jinking boxes mean the boxes do not contribute, only the guys inside can shoot, which given your long range firepower being on the vehicles is not all that great.

More or less completely relying on cover saves is bad when there is alot of ignore cover on the field (Imperial guard order, Tau etc.) as you do not have any heavy armor. At all. The best is 11/11/10

The rule passengers shooting out of a transport that moved more then 6' having to snapshot hurts them alot.

There are very few blast/template/ignore cover weapons in the army making them ironically weak against themselves and against cheap horde armies. Similar problems exist with their melee units, who with the exception of incubi and grotesques are toast when they even see a flamer (overwatch!) given they have T3 or T4 and a 5+ at best. (Reavers, Hellions, wytches, mandrakes, wracks)

Many of their special weapons are ignored by fearless or TheyShallKnowNoFear making them rather meh

The army has very little answer to anything that comes close, fast. (bikes, droppods...).

>>50738007

Alright, cool. Wasn't entirely sure if it worked that way.

>>50737693
>Why do people think Deldar are so weak?

You're playing against him with Orks. Deldar fold hard against Ignore Cover, which we don't get easy access to outside of Flamers, which are easy for him to avoid (though I have been using a Promethium Line recently for my Burna Boyz, works better than expected). Our shooting is also pretty sub-par and we're one of the few races that Deldar are actually decent against in CC. We have no access to invuls and non-existant initiative so challenges are auto-lose for us, so that's another advantage they have.

Deldar against the top tier armies tend to do poorly. But when you're both low tier, the matchups can be much closer. It's just that we're on the absolute bottom of the shitpile.

>>50737950
Siphon Magic is a dead draw on Aspirin Sorcerers. It's only worthwhile on S.O. Sorcerers if they get a WC2 power for their other power.

>>50737928
It's not like there is a good defense against Psyker heavy armies. Culuxus can kinda defend against psychic deathstars, but the only real way to defend against mass psykers is to spam your own psykers.