Warhammer 40k General

first for who put the emperor in charge, I demand a recount, the tau hacked us

>Complain over getting good things edition
*Complain over getting good things that are almost useless unless they FAQ them edition.

Sitting at my LGS, mad at the enginseer and my game for the night bailed on me. Anyone want pics from Imperial Agents?

>>50697508
Explaing please

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Decided to take the plunge. Went down to the flgs and bought my very first box of marines. Not sure how to go about putting them together. Are these things usually metal?

WAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

>>50697447

nth for how the fuck are my traitor Guard supposed to kill Magnus?

>>50697520
Just post everything except the fluff, you'll win the internet.

Why is 4chan the best place for 40k rumors on the internet? Goddammit those clickbait sites are just that bad.

>>50697527
>5.3mb
What the fuck is wrong with people like you

>>50697520

Sure. Would love pics of the SoB and / or Inquisition unit entries / formations.

>>50697520
Yes please, I must know how hard they fucked their copypasta job up.

>Asterion Moloc
>Legendary Fighter: The army gains 1 Victory point for each enemy character slain by the Warlord in a challenge.
Me:
>challenge you to a duel
Opponent:
>lolnothanks.jpg

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>retarded fungus man born yesterday
>2 attacks

>10,000 year old devotee of the god of combat who has fought a million enemies on a thousand worlds while pumped full of warp-fueled anger
>1 attack

>>50697520
Mind posting the Inquisitorial acolytes? Apparently there was a huss and fuss last night over Stormtroopers?

>>50697527
>No one wants to be chaos this hard

>>50697541

Chase him with a SoS squad in a Rhino.

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>That feel when you can finally run the lists you want and not just loose horribly
Blood for the Blood God!

>>50697554
I have good internet?

>>50697559
Great, then his characters get to stand by and look as his squad is dismantled.

>>50697559
Play against CSM, you'll rack up one point per turn in which you charge something with a character. That's the only time that trait will ever be worth shit.

>>50697566
Grats friend, you posted it again

>>50697566

but anon, girls in power armor have 2 attacks

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>>50697559
>I accept. You'll even get an extra d3 if you manage it.

>>50697541
>traitor guard

ally them with magnus and take your own magnus

>>50697621
Sure, I'll use my Megazord.

>>50697525
The Enginseer in the IA book has the Cult Mechanicus faction and can only use his buff on friendly "Astra Militarum" units because they lazily copy-pasted the rule. Hence, because Guard has their own enginseer that doesn't need to use the ally rules, he's pointless until they FAQ him.

Also, the Valkyrie formation that is meant (I assume) to allow transport flyers for others does not allow allies to start in them, so you can ally in 1-4 lightly armed transport flyers with nothing they can transport save a guy who has to be on the board to help them with their reserve rolls or fuck with the enemies, his only job. Hence, also useless until an FAQ is released.

>>50697588
Loose your bowels? Oh you meant Lose the Game! Learn to spell you fuckwit.

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>>50697635
Oh sh-

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>>50697557

>>50697588
8 havocs can't have 7 melta guns

>>50697643
No one is going to care that you use it to repair Cult Mechanicus, anyone who does that at an LGS is a cunt not worth playing, and any tournament is going to have that FAQed

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>>50697577

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>>50697559
> Lias Issodon
> "Wait, how the fuck did you get here. SHIT IS THAT AP2?"
> Only badab war character that dies in just a single round of combat against Asterion Moloc
> His only saving grace is that he at least laughed at the lascannon spear with his 2+ cover.

I hope Inquisition and Sisters will get nice codex after Imperial Agents.

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>>50697566

>blueberry weeb gundam suit man who lives only 20 years and experience of 10 years fighting wars
>4 attacks

>10,000 year old lord of the dark gods scourge of the universe and eater of dreams
>3 attacks

>>50697657
>special weapons still have those costs
definitely didn't expect that

>>50697541
>killing Magnus
Don't play against him, he's unkillable.

>>50697681
What about Skitarii? Cult Mech has no vehicles.

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>>50697635
What does that actually refer to? Don't know that nickname for a unit.

Also, D3 wounds/limbs lost per hit. Fairly soon it will be a Black (Knight) Ranger.

Anyone have a breakdown on special weapons for tactical marines? And the pros and cons of each choice?

>>50697119
Space Marines Saving = $34.25
Astra Militarum Saving = $25.00
Tyranid Saving = $48.75
Space Wolves Saving = $22.50 (does not include Wolf Lord saving as no model exist)
Daemons of Khorne Saving = $34
Daemons of Nurgle saving = $54
Necrons Saving = $28.75
Skiitari Saving = $56
Ork Saving = $44.50
Tau Saving = $56
Eldar Saving = $38
Militarum Tempestus Saving = $54
Blood Angels Saving = $48.75
Dark Eldar Saving = $43.50
Chaos Space Marines = $32.75

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Challenge: Come up with a new Ork unit.

>>50697187
>read this post
>hear retarded southern drawl American accent

I mean, everybody always sounds like they do in films!

>>50697749
literal zero changes

they didn't even add frag grenades which he has been missing forever

>>50697657

>Flamer is still 10pts
>Plasma pistol raised to 15pts
>Power fist raised to 25pts
>Power weapons raised to 15pts
Well fuck melee Inquisitors, amirite?

>>50697764

All you brits speak american funny.

>>50697759
>Challenge:
Go an entire thread without asking for or suggestig a fix for anything.

>>50697703
Imperium and chaos should just outsource their power armor production to the Eastern Fringe.

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>>50697764
>hfw he realises Britain has more accents than the whole of America and Canada combined

>>50697777
nuhkuhlur

>>50697744
just use the price of a space marine captain in power armour

>>50697749
What the fuck, they actually made him fucking BETTER (well, by fixing an old rule that made no sense now everything scores, but THANKS ANYWAY).

Well, that helps ameliorate all the BS rules writing a bit.

>>50697780
>>50697559
>Challenge accepted
>Asterion Moloc
>Thanks for free victory point

>>50697749
Adding objective secured on all inquisition people? No point increase? Hell yeah

>>50697774
That's going to be a running theme

>>50697780
(You + Gun)*bullets to face = Happy world.

>>50697749
>Australia_Tries_To_Stand_On_It's_Head.jpg

>>50697759
Mega Snazz Gun. A larger version of the Snazz Gun. Make it for Flash Gitz Killer-Kanz/Deff/Mek Gun.

>>50697759
Looted Baneblade with removed main turret, replaced with a Deff Dread.

>>50697759
Big 'Ard Nob 13 points per

4 4 4 4 1 2 2 8 3+

>>50697806
Sorry I don't acknowledge fanfic characters.

>>50697759
Big shoota boyz
minimum squad of 5
55 points
may add up to 15 extra boyz at 11 ppm
10 points to upgrade one to a big nob

It's literally just a mob of boyz where everyone has big shootas.

>>50697833
>Big 'Ard No

I dare you to google that.

>>50697835
>classifies written character as fanfic
>doesn't realize that makes all characters fanfic characters
Wew lad, try harder plz

>>50697850

>60 36" Str 5 AP 5 shots.
>220 points

We Tau now.

>>50697854
That's part of the joke

>>50697780
Asking people to come up with a new unit is actually a refreshing change from the usual "how do fix X" or "here's my terrible fixes for X", you should be applauding them for that post.

>>50697759
Squigherder. A Nob with the Cavalry type mixed into a unit of 3-15 packhunta squigs with the Beast type. Fenrisian Wolf statline with +1 Toughness, -1 Initiative.

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>>50697835

>>50697695
LOL. Sisters getting squatted after 8th Edition Release. Trust me... i know it. There are no further plans.

>>50697924
Sure we'll believe you as soon as you post your GW Employee Photo ID

>>50697833
>BS 4
Kill yourself.

>>50697588
I know this is probably asked every thread but what site is this?

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People talk about the Tau not having bad or useless units but everyone forgets that heavy gun drones exist
>11 or 13 points more expensive than regular gun drones
>Same stats
>bulky
>heavy support slot
>2 extra shots but no pinning
There is no Tau unit more pointless.

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Da Plan:
1. Orks shoot
2. Knight shoots better
3. ???
4: WAAAGH!

>>50697447

What is a good setup for a Chapter Master?

Trying to decide to start choosing which bits to buy to assemble it.

>>50697908
>squigs are a melee race
>I3

Make shootas assault 3

make big shootas assault 4

Make nob and meganob weapons big shootas instead of shootas

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>>50697956
oh no, someone caught me

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>>50697950
Please do not feed the troll.

>>50697983
No fuck off.

>>50697924
Post proof.

>>50697833
>Nob
>2A

>>50697977
the relic which makes him ignore instant death and a thunder hammer, iron halo, and a bodyguard of guys who want to get into melee

>>50697960
http://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#/rosterCreator

>>50697907
Hey, they cleared up the wording. Helpful, that, despite the fact that noone runs the things that I am aware.

>>50697960
IT'S IN THE FUCKING OP YOU BLIND MOTHERFUCKER!!!

>>50697520

Can you post the SoB command squad?

>>50697775
inferno pistol got raised too iirc, a weapon which is on one of the default hereticus inquisitors

>>50697566

That's Mr. Retarded Fungus Man to you... Yer Git.

>>50697907
>rad grenades don't affect instant death
Was this always the case?

>>50697790

how do brits pronounce Skitarii?

>>50697907
Wait, so what exactly is a Plasma weapon then? Is it just anything with plasma in the name? What if the plasma is part of some other word? Is an Ectoplasma Cannon a plasma weapon? A Baleflamer isn't a flamer.

>>50698003
Why not, nevermind let me answer for you

>you're Orks

>>50697645
Will do, mein Führer

>>50697447
>(Use Readium for PC or Kobo on Android)

Readable! you have saved me!

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>>50698023

>>50698027

Seriously?
How do they expect people to get within 6" to fire it off?
Very surprised Plasma guns stayed at 10pts too.

>>50697774

>Imperium players are now coming to grips with the reality of what other faction have been living for years

>>50698043
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0F5NLpMTYCA

>>50698053
Because
>7ppm for 3 shot S 4 weapons
Are you fucking kidding me?

You realize that's literally more than twice as good as a Space Marine shooting, right?

>>50697643
Wow. How does gw let a product this shitty go to print?

>>50697872
>Reader of the Tarot
Oh my, this'll be good for my GK. Cheapest way of getting "re-rolls" on reserves.

>>50697447
Guys... Traitor Legions made me feel like my World Eaters are competitive now.... what army should I switch to so I can continue my weeping and gnashing of teeth?

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>>50698013

My chapter is based around space and boarding actions and support.

I was thinking of this model since the Mk III is the best boarding armor and it could look like relic armour.

So thunder hammer and Storm shield?

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Well fuck me.

First the Adepta Sororitas digidex bullshit copypasta that changed nothing except to make some things worse, now the same treatment to all imperial agents except for the glorious Space Marine posterboys who actually got a fucking update even though they were the ones needing it the least.

If I were a fucking millionaire I'd start collecting Eldar and Space Marines since apparently every army I have gets fucked into oblivion, and every sporadic and model-less update I get only makes things worse, even after I thought we hit rock bottom already.

Fuck this shit.

>>50698079
>BS2

>>50698071
I play SoB this has been my suffering since 4th when SoB got Turbo Shitted to the sorry mess that is today.

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>>50698066

>>50698101
MK 3, bolter and boarding shield.

>>50698108
Yeah, that was factored in.

WITH BS 2 that's more than twice as good as Space Marine shooting, you math-illiterate fuck.

>>50698099
Word Bearers or Thousand Sons for maximum gnashing within faction.

If you really want to get creative, pretend you're one of the retards that thought Imperial Agents was going to be some absurd standalone superfriends codex.

>>50697907
NO! NOT THE PLASMA SYPHON AGAIN!

>>50698109

SoB players exempted

They are not a real faction after all, just a meme

>>50698054
Their, there, and they're and to and too are homophones. It makes sense that they get confused. Lose and loose are pronounced differently, therefore only lazy morons spell lose ass loose.

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>>50698067
what do you see?

>>50698071
doesn't actually matter because he has to use his nemesis doomhammer. well he loses the possibility of throwing a nade

>>50698038
i don't think so

>ask GW's facebook page about where the Made to Order Terminators are
>ask why the fuck Aeronautica is even included when you can't transport BB
>get a reply
>go to read it
>there is no reply, must have been deleted

I guess he can't talk about why there is no Terminator MTO?

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

My battered wife attitude to playing CSM for so long has got me so I can't even properly enjoy Traitor Legions because I just keep thinking "GW are going to update us and make Traitor Legions invalid and we'll go back to being garbage".

>>50698038
It explicitly says they do, look again.

>>50698089

Because the proof-reading unpaid intern was out that day, apparently.

>>50698102
Ehm Ehm you forgot about cutting off St Celestine :).

>>50698101

For a chapter master?

Honour Guard already have mandatory bolters

3 out of 6 tactical squads in each company already are boarding units

>>50698102
Actually SoB shit changed a bit. I do believe Celestine Command Squads are in a different category freeing up other shit. I can't remember though.

>>50698145
We can be presidents? Meme magic is real after all. Praise kek

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>>50698129
>BS2

Also, did you factor in rapid fire?

>>50697527
Either this is bait, or you're not aware that these models are easily 25 years old.

>>50698158
If you're aren't playing Death Guard or Emperor's Children, it's not like Traitor Legions did that much for you.

>>50698135
Taufaggot detected

>>50698186

I am playing Death Guard.

>>50698043
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0CvjSGLv266

>>50698172
>>50698125

>>50698179
Even factoring in Rapid-fire, those Boyz are twice as efficient at putting out S4 hits at range.

Shoota Boyz are fine as dakka units. They just need their leadership issues fixed. It's the choppa ladz that are hurting.

>>50698167
Wait that's real?

Holy kek, sisterfags on suicide watch

>>50698179
What the fuck is that image even trying to convey, is that bait?

With rapid fire the Orks are still putting out 1.5x as many successful hits per point AND get to charge afterwards unlike Marines.

Outside rapid fire they're putting out 3 times as many successful hits.

And don't get me started on how much better they are snap firing.

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>>50698167
I never actually fielded her but yeah, that too. Like I said, the changes that happened were for the worse and usually translated into "let's cut even more shit so you literally have nothing left".

>>50698173
Yeah now Celestians are pointless and no one will take them so you can spam meltaguns in the Elites slot once you run out of slots for the mandatory MSU Dominions in an Immolator.

... Except that's CAD shenanigans in the age of formationhammer40k so you know, it's not much of a boost as a "You THINK it's an improvement but you're actually still far worse off than everyone else :^)".

And when I don't play Imperium losers I play CSM so yeah. Really, if I were swimming in money I'd buy Eldar and SM just to watch them die.

>>50698197
Enjoy it while it lasts.

I'd expect that, once 8e hits, we'll essentially lose the legion detachment bonuses, the marks will take on most/all of the cult bonuses, and the remaining stuff will get baked into the FBD benefits.

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>>50698174

Kek is mighty, but the SoB are not part of the prophecy

>>50698232
>so new he hasn't been around for a week

>>50698190
Nah, CSM. I just happen to love Plasma guns and run them in basically everything. Not that I expect I'll ever actually play against someone with the syphon.

>>50698221
>>50698235
>>50698079

Why the fuck shouldnt they be better at shooting than marines?

Theyre also MUCH less survivable and dont have bullshit leadership bonuses like marines

>>50698235
all orks weapon are assault, theres no rapid fire for them

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So I`ll be starting a small Night Lords Army, and Im starting with 5 units of Raptors/ Warp Talons for the sweet,sweet Raptor Talon. But the question is: how hard is it to paint a skull on those weird ass Raptort helmets, since Im not getting those stupid bat wings.

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>three more days to go on an entire week of incessant bitching about the sisters release

>>50698247
>Sisterfags spend every day on /tg/

certainly not going to be playing any games

>>50698252
Ideally, Orks would have a different set of leadership bonuses.

Orks being half the price but twice as effective would be absurd. You're overestimating both the difference in durability between a Boy and a Tactical and/or undervaluing just how much more efficient at shooting that would make the Shootas.

Stupid shit like this is why nobody takes homebrew seriously. Fix the issues, don't pile OP shit on stuff that's already fine.

THIS JUST IN ORK SHOOTING BEST IN WORLD.

>>50698265
I would just paint those areas bone, or get 30k Night Lord helemts. An actually skull sounds unfeasible

>>50698265

7/10 difficulty rating

>>50698281
Meanwhile we've been hearing incessant bitching from Chaos players for years. And even after this GREAT book they got they're STILL bitching. Your point?

>>50698302
How does one more shot make them twice as effective?

Wouldnt that imply boyz are already better than marines at shooting?

>>50698147
In my native tongue, words are written as they're spoken, which makes English sometimes challenging to write

>>50698318
>Less toxic than CSM.
You clearly hold yourself only to the highest standards, give yourself a break.

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>>50697950
You want me to get fired? Like that "raziel" guy who spread the false february rumors? Somebody came up with the idea that gw sometimes brings up false rumors in the company by itself. Thats true. For special employees to test their trustworthiness before a possible promotion... so guess who got the dismissal. this guy was btw atias reliable source. Dont think its strange he knew about a sisters release in two months... but nothing about the next big AOS wich was made official TODAY!!!

>>50698314
I`d rather not sell my last kidney to get 25 of the Forge Jews helmets.


>>50698316
So should a shitty painter like me be able to do it?

>>50698318
Some CSM factions got a great book. Some got dog-shit.

>>50698327
Because Ork boys are immortal and they're constantly putting out 60 shots per turn (their BS2 doesn't matter see because they always shoot at max numbers, especially with open-topped vehicles and assault weapons!!!!) so its not fair to compare them to Space Marines who don't have anywhere near the durability or fire output as an Ork boy.

Orks are perfect and BS2 is not a hindrance at all and their 2 shots per weapon is absolutely fine to counter the SHEER WEIGHT of fire Orks are known for in the shooting phase.

>>50698352
I would just paint the helmet areas bone then.

>>50698302
Ork boyz are not fucking fine. They are nowhere near fine.

>>50698252
>Why the fuck shouldnt they be better at shooting than marines?
Because they're fucking Orks you green chode, and they're not much less survivable by a long-shot unless you run them out in the open, they're Toughness 4 and get the same cover in ruins as everyone else. They also have twice as many base attacks at half as many points which means a boy is 4 times killier in melee than a tac marine for points discounting the initiative drop, and again can still charge after shooting.

To fix Orks you need to fix their Leadership issues and give them more bonuses for charging like bonus initative or FnP on the charge. Not make them into Tau levels of shooty.

>>50698256
I'm talking about with the Marines Rapid Firing, dude.

>>50698352

You can always strip or paint over anon, I just know I wouldn't attempt and I am not a great painter either.

>>50697586
Non-psychic aura abilities don't work in transports

>>50698327
>Wouldnt that imply boyz are already better than marines at shooting?
See, either you know fuckall about how Orks actually work and shouldn't be trying to fix them, or you're just a shitposter fishing for (You)'s.

Shoota Boyz are incredibly efficient shooting troops (at least they were until Scatbikes).

>>50698371
>Orks known for holding down the trigger and spraying bullets aren't allowed more shots on their weapons with BS2
>Orks known for being shit shots have to keep their BS2 though because lolfluff.
>Because they're fucking Orks you green chode

Worst kind of person

>>50698360
It's all still CSM. If you want to win, play Death Guard. If you want to have fun, pick your favorite faction. Unless you're a tourney only player, I doubt anyone would object to you using your CSM as a different flavor of CSM. Be happy you get a choice like that.

>>50698360
Imperial Fists player here. Likewise for Loyalists.

>>50698281
The bitching will end in 3 nevers

>>50698367
Sound fair enough. Its probably gonna still look dogshit since Im going to be using the stock raptor pauldrons.

>>50698374
I think I`ll just to paint them bone as the other anon said. It shouldnt look to horrible.

>>50698327
>How does one more shot make them twice as effective?
>How does an additional shot in a game balanced around 1-2 shots per gun, on a model that costs only 7 points, make them more effective?
Learn basic math before you ever suggest anything regarding game design ever again you retard.

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>>50698371
>Theyre not THAT much less survivable!
>They get the same cover save as everyone! (disregarded than orks will never be in cover
>Theyre even better in close combat than marines! (except for always going last)

>>50698397
Oh shit guys, we've got an Ork tactical expert here.

He's shortly going to post his game breaking list for Orks to shut us all up and prove we're all wrong.

Or he's going to be a little cunt like he is and give some snarky response and deliver nothing.

Go on then fella, show us how Orks are meant to be run.

>>50698401
>It's all power armor, just play loyalist SM if you want grav.

Wanting flavor with usability is the most reasonable part of the CSM salt you fuckwit.

>>50698397
How has scatbikes made Orks less efficient?
Did their mere appearance magically warp the content of the Ork codex?

>>50698397
>Shoota Boyz are incredibly efficient shooting troops

i sure love shooting 60 times, hitting 10 times, wounding 5 times and having 1-2 wounds actually go through

>>50698416
>12 inch gun
>On a 6+ unit
>On a BS2 unit
>That needs to run MORE units to have same shooting output as other armies
>No, you keep your 2 shots on your 3 models who eventually get into combat to unload their AP6 bolters at us.

>>50698101
yeah pretty much, it's called the shield eternal and it's super gay, give him artificer armour and he's good to go

>>50698296
Or, you're new to what has been known for a week. You don't need to be on every day to know what's happening. The fact you've not come on for at least one thread (and we have multiple threads a day) in the last week makes me think you're either shitposting for (You)'s or you're neither interested in the game or the hobby in general and just want to shitpost.

next time, stick to forcing memes like >I2 or something.

>>50698066

>Confirmed elites
>same stat line as celestians
>can take 5 special weapons
>FnP option
>5 points cheaper

Wew

Also, this as elites is what SoB actually needed. We can have 3 units of combi-plasma and power weapons, or dual wielding evicerators because reasons.

>>50698473

Sounds like my IG

>>50698473
No see you're using them wrong, Shoota boys are just slightly less efficient Scatbikes, that one poster said so and countless years of Ork gameplay won't say otherwise.

>>50698403

The fuck are you on, Imperial Fists are one of the best chapter tactics you spoiled fucking baby.

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>>50698472
>>50698473

>>50698401
>just play a different army
No thanks. I'll just keep playing Tzeentch Daemons until they fix Tzeentch CSM.

>>50698403
Yeah. It's absolutely retarded to pretend that as long as one sub-faction is okay, all of the others are okay too.

>>50698492
except without orders and worse leadership and no shooty tanks or weapon teams or special weapons or transport flyers or artillery to back them up

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DOES THIS LIST SUFFICIENTLY BEAR THE UNHOLY WORD OF THE URIZEN?

>>50698457
That could be said for literally every faction which isn't Tau, Eldar or Daemons (one kind of Daemon anyway).

>>50698244

Celestians are in fact worthless, but Command Squads are fucking fantastic because you get 5 special/heavy weapons that an all take axes, combi, evicerators with their weapons, or double up on the melee/combi

>>50698403
>fists players whine, not templars

it's true what anon said, there's no cancer faction, just a cancer game, AND WE ALL PLAY IT

How to use the Raptor Talon? How many units of Raptors and how many of Talons?

>>50698472
These guys are basically what rubrics should be.

The real question is do you want them to deep strike in, with pin-point accuracy, with ignores cover plasmas or meltas?

>>50698102
>Fuck this shit.
But goy... I mean fellow customer, you knew what happening with armies if their players didn't support hobby.

>>50698523
No Possessed or Cultists?

Dissapointing, Son of Colchis.

Looks alright otherwise.

>Orks arent allowed to be better than marines at anything, youre retarded

Luckily for you, GW completely agrees with you. Thank god i got rid of my orks and started an army that the developers actually care about.

>>50698513
> Took away the option for Damned Sergeants to take a Combi-Grav.. Or any combi-weapon for that matter
What the fuck?

>>50698458
Relative to other troop units.

>>50698473
Average is 20 hits. Bad luck happens to everyone, and you're just as likely to be above average as below it.

>>50698474
Shoota is 18" range.

>>50698423
I'm not saying Orks are fine, I'm saying the issue isn't that Shootas need more shots. If you aren't interested in reading what I type, there isn't much point in continuing.

>>50697447
Can you post the Ordo Xeno Inquistor page please?

>>50698398
>7point models should put out more successful hits with strength 4 shooting than elite models that cost twice their points
For the last time, learn math you dumb fuck. Shoota Boyz are already better shots than Guardsmen man to man outside rapid fire range. BS 2 with 2 shots is .55 hits per model, BS 3 with 1 shot is .5 hits per model. That is where your weight of fire is represented.

>>50698561

It's the Legion elite.

sadly they don't get Fearless or Hatred like the other legions unless they're standing right next to the dark apostle

>>50698538
I like 2 raptors 1 talons and keeping one unit on the table at the start

>>50698474
The shoota is 18"

Not sure which one of you is worse.

>>50698416
10 boys cause an average of 2.9 dead guardsmen.
5 Marines with double tap do 4.4
With a single shot 2.2

So in best case scenario, Orks are not even a third more efficient.

>>50698513
Didn't they used to get a Heavy Weapon too?

>>50698457
I never said play your CSM as loyalists, numbskull. You got flavor and usability in Death Guard, Emperors Children, and Iron Warriors. If you have some autistic NEED to win a casual match, you can play your spiky Marines as any of those and only someone with an equal level of autism would deny you. Otherwise, your Word Bearers or 1kSons are still FINE and playable on the tabletop. Are you going to win every time? No. Are you better off than certain armies with this new book? Absolutely. Quit fucking whining and appreciate that GW gave you SOME way to have an at least average performance on the tabletop.

>>50698588
Oh look, you didn't post anything, what a big surprise.

You can leave now.

>>50698474
>Doesn't even know the stats of the weapons he's talking about
Whining disregarded.

>>50698607
H-how about Night Lords anon-kun?

>>50698602
That's best case scenario for the Bolter. Shoota will start doing better, point for point, against anything without a 5+ save.

>>50698596
I feel like we should have gotten army wide Zealot on everything with VotLW.

Why do people like AdMech? They're the lamest army in the game, every single model looks exactly the same.

Who gives a shit about how many s4 shots a unit can put out?

That shit is worthless. Marines are better because of special weapons, of which orks have none. At least let orks put out a huge mass of fire

>>50698606
no because the models never had the heavy weapons

>>50698632
Great against anything that suffers from fear. Shit against everything else.

>>50698607
>1kSons are still FINE and playable on the tabletop
You're the retard that tried posting a non-Thousand Sons list as proof last thread, aren't you? Do you really think that your anecdotal claims are going to convince all the Thousand Sons players that have already tried out the new rules and found them wanting?

>>50698602
>So in best case scenario, Orks are not even a third more efficient.
But they are, already, more efficient in that scenario.

The other guy is suggesting giving them +1 shot per 7pt model which throws that COMPLETELY off.

Also if we're comparing Rapid Fire range, the Orks can shoot and charge (and then get far more attacks per point than Marines), the Marines cannot.

Waiting for all these Ork experts to post lists.

>>50698648
But you just said s4 doesn't matter, so why bother?

What about big shootas on nobz and meganobz, that was also something I suggested before this shit began.

>>50698655
Well, sure will have agianst my friends playing tau and world eaters :,,,^)

>>50698186
>implying BL aren't fucking amazing.

>>50698608
>prove thing you never said
>I didn't say that
>see you can't prove it
10/10 argument. You'll make your High School debate team proud some day, little guy.

>>50698666
>Shooting phase with rapid fire
>Overwatch with rapid fire
>Single phase of shooting once and then maybe charging

Righttttttttttttttttttttt

>>50698666
Marine can get shot at with lasguns and not beat one another to death in the ensuing panic.

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>>50698019
>>50698014
Thanks

If I was playing my first game this week would you judge me for using a formation? The ability to foot slog a portion of my army with 5++ just feels much more fun that a CAD army that relies drop pods or centurions.

How is Alpha Legion good? You only deny your oponent a single point, and Chosen are stupidly squishy for their cost.

>>50698667

Ork intellectuals is the preferred nomenclature dude

>>50698673
That one's fine.

>>50698683
I said post a list or shut the fuck up. You obviously know the secret to how Orks should be run so I requested you post the list to prove it?

You didn't, you're the little bitch that I thought you were who can "talk big" but can't actually back up his words.

Either post a list, or go put a knife between your eyes.

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>>50698647

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>>50698589

>>50698694
>infiltrating special weapons is bad lol

You fucking idiot. Seriously?

>>50698690
So clearly the solution is fix Mob Rule, not make Orks into a more shooty race.

>>50698662
I don't know who the fuck you're even talking about. I'd post that picture explaining "samefags" usually being different people, but I don't have it.

>>50698607
I'm not him, in fact I was in the other thread talking about how 1k sons are fine

as a csm player I'm very happy with the traitor legion supplement

my heart goes out to SoB players and their cumsmear of a rulebook (you should have expected it though)

as a deldar player my heart goes out to my fellow pirates, maybe someday we won't be turbo-fucked by gw

as an ork player I'm glad that I painted so many and can use them in gorka morka and they're still fun to bring out when someone brings in a poorly painted dark vengence set and is looking for a game

>>50698681
Eh, the lack of ObSec availability for Turn 1 deep strike hampers it. I'm sure Turn 1 Raptor Talon is going to shred casual circles, but, as a competitive build? I'm skeptical. Disordered Raptors just don't do much damage.

Theres no fixing orks

AV10 vehicles and t4 6+ hordes are just not viable regardless of buffs in the current game.

>>50698711
You literally just proved his point in the post you're replying to, retard. Quit strawmanning.

>>50698719
>fix mob rule
How the fuck, GeeDubs will just make it even worse, better they dont touch it.

>>50698718
>implying that's doing shit against suits and drop pods

>>50698724
>Deldar sympathy
Thanks, senpai.

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>>50698720
Here.

>>50698711
Orks can't be run well, outside those silly Shardsnark+Bikes+Buzzgob lists. I've never tried to claim otherwise.

Shootas are fine. Boyz are shit, but not because of Shootas.

>>50698667
>Ork experts
Do you mean, people who can do basic math and are saying "no that suggested house-rule is retarded" and have never made the claim that the Ork faction as a whole is any good?

>>50698760
Thank you!

>>50698728
Cut their points in half

Make shootas Strength 5

>>50698667
I keep my orks in an empty ice cream bin

there's no foam either they're just tossed into a bin

Why is every thread infested with Ork shitposting? This is reaching SoB levels of spam.

>>50698740
>>50698763
>>50698768
Lots of people still talking but not actually posting anything.

Again, please, post a list that works and is efficient that doesn't need any kind of improvement because Orks are FINE.

>>50698720
Thousand Sons (without Magnus) are shit. Complete shit. Orks closest competitor for shittiest army in the game tier shit.

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>>50698206
>http://vocaroo.com/i/s0CvjSGLv266
>skih tah ree eye

>>50698743
>Here are my suggested fixes for Orks
>No that's retarded, that's not the fix they need
>But they kill each other because of Mob Rule
>So then we should be talking about suggested fixes for Mob Rule
>No that will never happen, because GeeDubs is evil and hates Orks
So then what are we even having this conversation for? If they're not going to fix Mob Rule they're obviously not going to give shootas a massive buff either.

Are Orks players all this retarded? I actually used to feel bad for you guys.

>>50698792
Because orks are shit, have been shit for a long time, and are not getting fixed in the foreseeable future.

Which is kind of bad for business as theyre the second most recognizable element of the entire fucking setting

>>50698472
Interesting. The only heavy weapons allowed are the mm and hf. I pity those who spent 40000 years giving them an ignores cover plasma cannon.

>>50698794
You literally just responded to a post that said "Orks are not fine and we never said they are" claiming they're saying Orks are fine.

You are the fucking faggot here.

>>50698813
Boyz need way more than just a fix to mob rules

If they were straight fearless they still would be shit

>>50698813
>So then what are we even having this conversation for?
Because you want to argue pointless shit that won't change anything?

>>50698815
Unless you're lumping CSM, and Chaos as a whole by extension, in with Space Marines, Orks are third.

>>50698828
Post a list.

>>50698724
All I wanted for the SoB was a not shit elite choice HQ Celestian are not Elite choice.

Best SoB codex since Witch Hunters!

>>50698724
The only conditions that render Thousand Sons fine also render every faction in the game fine. Every codex can do okay when everyone builds their lists with GW box-art load-outs.

>>50698836
>If they were straight fearless they still would be shit
Not even remotely true.

I could fuck a Tau player right up their gaping blueberry asshole with perma-Fearless Boyz no strings attached.

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>>50697447
Attention 40k General!

Make sure you follow all of these guidelines as you ask for Emperor's Ascension gifts this winter!
>https://regimental-standard.com/2016/12/14/regimental-gift-guide/
Failure to follow every guideline will result in a visit from your local Commisar.

Cut point cost, base strength 4, old mob rule(LD mimimum squad size), extra charge distance

>>50698838
I didnt see chaos being on the cover of Space Marine

Or being one of the first playable races in the new dawn of war

Orks vs Space Marines is the fucking OTP

>>50698844
So you're just shitposting then?

>>50698588

>Average is 20 hits. Bad luck happens to everyone, and you're just as likely to be above average as below it.

Okay, 20 hits. 10 wounds, 3 wounds.

From 60 shots. Wow, so efficient.

>>50698859
Total garbage.

>>50698786
Are gun servitors still an option?

>>50698852
BLOWN THE FUCK OUT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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I WANT PICTURES. PICTURES OF HENCHMEN.

Show me some inquisitorial mook squads. I need ideas.

>>50697759

Scrapwagon.

>If there's one thing the Meks always want more of, its scrap. Just about everything in Ork society is cobbled together from detritus scavenged from Mork knows where, and the demand for more "bitz" as Orks colloquially call it, is insatiable. With such a demand, it is unsurprising that scavenging for scrap is a lucrative activity for the more economically minded Orks, or to be more accurate, their Gretchin slaves, who do all the real work. Ork Scrapbosses who go in for this line of "work" will, once they save up enough teef, get the local Mek to build a Scrapwagon for them. These ramshackle creations are mobile scrapyards, typically outfitted with cutting torches, cranes, giant magnets and most importantly, a big cargo hold.

Points: 45

AV: 11/11/10.
Hull Points: 4
Transport Capacity: 20 models.

>Grot Scavengers: All Scrapwagons come with a horde of grots who call the vehicle home. Aside from doing all the real work, they also know their way around the mechanisms of their smelly house very well. All Scrapwagons have the Grot Rigger upgrade.

>Grab da loot! Scrapboss crews are adept at ripping apart wrecked vehicles and buildings, even in the midst of battle. If a Scrapwagon begins its movement phase in base contact with a wrecked enemy vehicle, or destroyed Fortification, it may choose not to move. If it does not move, remove the wreck or ruined Fortification and the Scrapwagon counts as controlling an additional Objective.

>>50698879
>efficiency from # of shots instead of points per wound inflicted
kek

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>>50698897
>Buy Scions
>Paint them Red and Black.
>Instant Henchmen

>>50698876
No I'm asking you to do something and you're failing to do it.

Either post a list and prove your point of what an efficient Ork list is, or stop responding to me and shut the fuck up. Its quite simple to follow.

>>50698714

Do Psychotroke grenades still have the bullshit result when you roll a 2 for them?
Thanks for posting btw.

>>50698861
>Cut point cost
I could see dropping Boyz to 5, but they'd have to not really improve much else. Boyz are fairly close to being an okay unit.

> base strength 4
Sure, but they'd have to lose Furious Charge. They're too cheap to be throwing out that many S5 attacks. I'd replace it with a Wulfen-style "always get to attack back when killed" rule that only works at full efficiency on the charge.

>Old mob rule
Does nothing for trukk boyz or any of the more elite units. You'd be better off with a modified version of the current mob rule that doesn't cause the unit to implode.

>extra charge distance
I'd just do rerollable charges when Waaagh'ing or something. Your FBD benefit is going to be perma-Waaagh anyways.

>>50698879
Compared to the same amount of points worth of Bolters fired against the same target at BS 4 outside RF range.

15 shots, 10 hits, 5 wounds, 1.6 unsaved Wounds.

Shoota boys are literally twice as points efficient shooting MEQ as other MEQ. Without a buff.

>>50698947
Now if only MEQs were fielded on mass so we could use these amazing efficient marksmen !

>>50698896
Got yah!

Celestian HQ are now elite choice! Welcome our new double wielding troops.

Heavy weapon in one hand, combi weapon in the other! With feel no pain! Best SoB Codex ever!

>>50698924
What you're asking them to do has absolutely nothing to do with the claims they made.

>Either post a list and prove your point of what an efficient Ork list is
Nobody made any points about "an efficient Ork list", and this has been explained to you literally three times now and you're still too retarded to grasp it. So you're either shitposting or too immensely stupid to bother discussing this with anymore.

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>>50697788
Lol no

Every state in the union has multiple accents. The Islamic caliphate of britbongistan will only have Arabic in a few years

>>50698947
Note that they're equally efficient within rapid-fire range.

The only real improvement that Shoota Boyz need (outside the changes that other Boyz and Boy derivatives need) is better special weapons.

>>50698964
>on mass

>>50698665
>Titans rank below electricity fetishists and trainee scrubs with barely more knowledge than a common Techmarine.

What in the actual fuck. I thought they ranked just below the leading Magi in their pseudo Feudal system?

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>>50698982

>The Islamic caliphate of britbongistan will only have Arabic in a few years

>>50698879
180 points of orks (30 orks)
60 -> 20 -> 10 -> 3.3333 -> 0.0185 dead marines per point
60 -> 20 -> 13.333 -> 8.8888 -> 0.04938 dead guardsman per point

182 points of marines (13 marines)
13 -> 8.666 -> 4.3333 -> 1.4444 -> 0.007936 dead marines per point (range)
26 -> 17.2222 -> 8.6666 -> 2.8888 -> 0.0158730 dead marines per point (rapid fire)

13 -> 8.666 -> 5.77777 -> 5.7777 -> 0.031745 dead marines per point (range)
26 -> 17.2222 -> 11.5555 -> 11.5555 -> 0.0.06349 dead marines per point (rapid fire)

>>50699000
It's not organized by ascending rank, dude.

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>>50698926

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>>50698995
Do I look latin to you!?

>>50698964
Spelling errors aside, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. MEQ are actually fairly common. Generally bundled up in metal boxes, but common. Probably common enough to be considered en masse.

>>50698913
I dig it, but I think you would have quite a few players hiding 2 or 3 in reserve and then scavenging the inevitable deployment zone Trukk wrecks, which is quite nice. Probably should add a clause on there about how the objective is dropped once the Wagon is destroyed and can be controlled by other scrapwagons.

I think it's cool. Maybe let it be the dedicated transport of a Mek so they can be kept near the other vehicles, and let him make repairs at a +1 from it?.

>>50698995
>For all intensive purposes, it's a doggy dog world out there

>>50698947
Delete this post, tac marines are literally worst troop choice in the game.

>>50699000
Do you see any line going from the AdMech Subgroups to Titanica?

>>50699010
Shoota Boyz are 7 PPM. They pay 1 for the gun.

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>>50698919
You think I'm stupid enough to pay 7 points for carapace armor and hot shot lasguns on a 4 point bs3 scrub? Id just field tempestus for ONE MORE POINT and get orders bs4 deep strike move through cover and frag/krak grenades!

PICTURES. I WANT PICTURES OF HENCHMEN.

>>50699010
Man I wish I played games were a 30 unit of Boys was standing exactly 18" away from a unit of Marines.

How do you manage to achieve this in your games?

>>50699021
Mind posting the non HQ Celestians? Or I'm just blind.

Sadly my hope for TACTICOOL INSERTION of Celestians in a Valk got shot down thanks to retarded GW rules. At least non HQ Celestians with FnP is still possible?

>>50699049
fuck

>>50699055
where in that math assumes the unit is exactly 18" away from a unit of marines? they're not shooting each other. its a comparison of efficiency of shoota boys and marines vs meq and geq.

>>50699055
Split them into 3 units of 10, then.

>>50699028

Yeah, I simply ran out of space to elaborate. The objective would be lost if the Wagon was lost, but naturally another Scrapwagon could scavange the first wrecked Scrapwagon (and so ad infinitum). Coming on from reserve to scavenge wrecked Trukks in the deployment zone sounds exactly like what a Scrapboss would do, so I figure that wouldn't be an issue.

As for dedicated transports, I could see maybe it being a dedicated transport for Lootas, but Scrapbosses, probably being Lootas themselves, would be leery about letting so many theivin' gitz into their ride. Meks might work, with some deciding to "cut out da middle man" and just get the scrap themselves instead of handing over hard earned teef.

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>>50699074
I did, their trukks blew up from bolters and they died.

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>>50698947
>math proves my point every time
Math is great and all but it shouldn't be the do all end all of proving how things operate. Anyone who plays this game regularly can attest that nothing ever operates as its supposed to mathematically. It bothers me that math-hammer gets thrown around so often because that may be the way things work but it's not the way things work.

>>50699024
No, you look like a little piggy who wallows in the "good enough" pit getting your self thoroughly covered in "everyone else does it".

>>50698913
Grot Scavengers is a shitty rule. It takes up a bunch of space and adds complexity where none is needed. Punt the reference to calling it home up to the fluff blurb and just include Grot Riggers as default equipment.

Grab da Loot! doesn't do anything most of the time, and I don't think dedicated victory point generators is a good addition to the game.

>>50697703
>Dumb Chaos panzee
>1 attack

>Ded 'ard git, who'z killy, shooty, AND choppy
>2 attacks
Makes sense ta me boss!

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>>50698887
Yes

>>50699065

>‘Ere We Go adds +1 initiative on a charge, or +2 during a waaagh!
>mob rule gives HoW at 10+ models, and +1ld at 15+models (or wounds in a squad), and hits are s3
>‘Eavy Armor is now 3ppm
>Cybork Body is +1 feel no pain (or 6+)
>Boys may buy burnas for 15 points instead of big shootas or rokkit launchas
>Boss Nobs may be equipped differently from their squad (when buying armor or weapons)
>Nobs and Flash Gits come with ‘Eavy Armor
>Flash Gits are elites
>Burna Boys, Kommandos, Tank Bustas, Stormboys, and Lootas may buy ‘Eavy Armor
>Wierdboys may be taken as “1-per-hq” choices >Painboys become 1-4 per choice.
>Gorkanaughts / Morkanaughts are superheavies and assault vehicles, but only get 1 stomp

Does this fix orks?

I wish they would just kill this game already so I could get i with my life

>>50699094
>trukks blew up from bolters
Stop playing Raptors Anon.

>>50699095
>that may be the way things work but it's not the way things work.
Math provides a tool for the objective analysis of unit efficiency. It's not perfect or the end-all-be-all, but nobody is claiming it is. Why you brain-dead morons chimp out at the sight of basic arithmetic is beyond me.

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Things I've learnt in the past few threads.

Ork Trukks are one of the most efficient transports in the games.

Ork shoota boys are just slightly less point efficient than Scat bikes.

Ork leadership of 7 is fine because thats the average.

Ork S3 is fine because S4 on charge.

Ork I2 is fine because sheer number of attacks makes up for it.

Orks aren't allowed more shots or better shooting because then they might perform better than SM at their best.

Did I miss anything?

>>50697779
At least my boy Karamazov is unchanged. I can still run him with my unit of 6 Bullgryns for my powerhouse T5 stompfest.

>>50699088
Yeah, I thought it sounded cool too, and would make for some cool custom missions as well.

I do think that having anything generate additional Victory Points is bad, but that's not a huge problem. I would be fine with people using that as homebrew. Now I want to run a mission where my Skitarii need to stop a bunch of these and their supporting hordes from scavenging a wrecked Knight or something.

>>50699014
It goes GOD, then the High Lords, then the biggest administrative bodies in the galaxy.

I assumed they were going by rank, with bodies in the same row being of similar standing.

>>50699095
But it's a useful benchmark for drafting game design before playtesting begins. The fact is that while "it doesn't always play out that way" is true, just as often that means it does better than expected as it does worse than expected.

>>50699130
forgot ork boys are now 5ppm because fuck being forced to pay for grenades that do nothing

>>50699118
God damn it no FnP. Oh well. Guess I'll add Repentias/DCA with Immolators as the stupid Elite tax.

>>50699095
>Math is great and all but it shouldn't be the do all end all

Honestly this is just because people stop their math short of conclusion, if they also added the common uses and the odds surrounding the efficiency of certain roles, actually useful mathhammer could be great.

>>50699099

It's just a bit of additional fluff. Of course you could just put it in the equipment section, I just added a bit of background info.

As to Grab da Loot!, the Scrapwagon isn't just a dedicated objective grabber. It's also a cheap transport with 20 troop capacity. Use it like a poor man's Battlewagon if you're just looking to roar up the board. But if you do find a wreck, it's a fluffy and flavourful rule that might tip a game or two in your favour, much like the Tankbusta's Glory Hogs rule. It doesn't penalize you to have it on there, and if the opponent wants to stop you, all he has to do is blow up an AV11 vehicle (should have put that it's open topped on there, ah well).

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I really want a cool World Eaters war-zone like the Thousand Sons just had lol (With actaul usable rules tho)

Obviously is not going to happen, not so fast at least, but would be cool.

>>50699130
>but only get 1 stomp

WHY?!?!?!?!? Why can't you just give Orks what everyone else gets. Why the fucking downside?

>>50699138
>Ork Trukks are one of the most efficient transports in the games.
True.
>Ork shoota boys are just slightly less point efficient than Scat bikes.
No one claimed that.
>Ork leadership of 7 is fine because thats the average.
That will pass on average, and they're supposed to have Mob Rule to help. Mob rule doesn't help, but that's the part that needs fixing, not the base leadership.
>Ork S3 is fine because S4 on charge.
Eh, due to the way disordered charges work, they should probably just make them S4 base and drop FC.
>Ork I2 is fine because sheer number of attacks makes up for it.
Pretty much. They need to regain an I bonus on the charge or get Wulfen-style death strikes.

>>50699065
>>50699161
The "Elite Celestians" are the Command Squad, which is now elite and was posted here:
>>50698066

>>50699135
>Why you brain-dead morons chimp out at the sight of basic arithmetic is beyond me.
It's because it is so basic that it bothers me. If it were more on point it would be better, but it's possible and it's so common that rolls are hilariously off what they should be around that makes me abandon thinking about the statistics.

>>50699193
because I didn't change their points.

>>50699138
>Ork Trukks are one of the most efficient transports in the games.
This is true, the problem is that everything they carry sucks balls.

>Ork shoota boys are just slightly less point efficient than Scat bikes.
Nobody said this.

>Ork leadership of 7 is fine because thats the average.
This would be true if they didn't have shitty Mob Rule.

>Ork S3 is fine because S4 on charge.
At 6ppm with 4 attacks on the charge you're goddamn right. Stop charging things that you can't kill with S3 with fucking Boyz.

>Ork I2 is fine because sheer number of attacks makes up for it.
No this needs a fix, 'Ere We Go should buff Initiative on the charge.

>Orks aren't allowed more shots or better shooting because then they might perform better than SM at their best.
They already do at least as good or better than SM with their small arms. They don't need better mainline weapons, that's ridiculous.

Are we talking about orks and how Underpowered they are again?

>>50699193
>2016
>orks are the only army without 230p super heavy
Let's be real here for a moment. GW is going to squat orks in Age of Primarchs, right?

>>50699215
Still not worth their points even then.

File: 1471037667776.jpg (87KB, 400x1261px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 400x1261px

>>50699198
Praise the Emperor!

>>50699205
>we're playing a game of dice, which is random, so lets throw any sort of statistics about the averages out the window!
>who cares that my xpt model performs better on average than my x*2pt model, the dice could fuck me over and make it perform worse so lets cost it cheaper!

>>50699230
>squat orks
>just sold a years worth of books about orks
>made orks a race in age of sigmar

no, no anon, we're going to have greenskins to fight forever