Warhammer Fantasy General: Western Ulthuan 101

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First in the name of Ariel and Orion.


How do I make my Wood Elfs look more like Fair Folk and less like elves?

I know this might be a sore point but has anyone here tried converting units from AoS to work in 8th edition?

>>50692435
there were homebrews a long time back, when AoS just hit and most people were too dumbfounded to rage. good luck finding them nowadays though

best you can do is check out 9th Age forums - I've seen fan-made Stormcast codices there, and T9A was close enough to 8th for them to work in 8th at the time.

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>>50692435
>I know this might be a sore point
You're god damn right

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>>50692316
Highlight what makes them different from humans, instead of portraying them as "humans with pointy ears" describe how unnaturally white their skin is, how weird is the shape of their eyes, how their fingers are eerily thin and long, how their voices sound like whispers, how they talk in riddles, how inhuman is their intonation and how fast they move around.

Make sure they don't want to have contact with humans but at the same time are fascinated by them. Make them shy, nimble, and always ready to run or hide.

Make them mischievous, malignant even, and unsettled by the trappings of civilization: iron, saddles, shoes, anything unnatural should make them uneasy and distressed.

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So wading in on the whole Ulthuan debate, I don't think it needs moving. I get the whole "if you know it's there then even if you didn't find it you'd eventually hit Lustria anyway" point and I agree with that actually. The rest of the points I'm ambivalent on and disagree that anything needs moving.

If anything I might agree to keeping Ulthuan where it is but reducing it's size. It is far larger than it needs to be, especially compared to Bretonnia & the Empire combined. Shrinking it a bit would alleviate this for me however

>>50692694
okay, how does this translate into minis on the tabletop?

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So the Man o' War: Cosair game has given me an interest in the naval aspect of Warhammer. It's something I know relatively little about beyond what's in the game however. Which I also know relatively little of.

I've seen Empire ships, Kislev, Marienburg, Orcs, Khorne, Nurgle, a flying castle, a shaman atop a tower on an isolated island in the middle of the sea of claws pummelling ships with Gork & Mork fists and a seriously overcrowded Skaven rape raft. Then I looked for the pdfs of the original game and found that it was disappointingly limited.

So I'm interested in running a seafaring campaign and want to vary things a lot. But each factiong having three ships and a flyer to choose from (if that) seems really underwhelming. Especially seeing as Lizardmen, Beastmen, Ogres and Vampires aren't represented.

So thoughts on helping me expand these? I mean if Skaven have rape rafts then Beastmen can. Hell there could be sea-beast themed beastmen for a start

>>50692829
First of all I suggest you have a look at Dreadfleet and 6th edition General's Compendium. Especially the latter.

Second... dunno. Okay, just first then.

>>50692703
>shindol

Why would you bring this wickedness here?!

>>50692829
Lizardmen would obviously use various plesiosaurs and other marine dinosaurs. The Ogre Kingdoms probably don't have ships -- they and their food stores would be too heavy. There are Vampire corsairs -- pretty sure there's one in Dreadfleet -- and even a Vampire colony in Lustria. They'd be the same as Empire or Bretonnia, just with undead slaves and sunken ships. Beastmen aren't teched up enough to have a fleet. They'd be borrowing Chaos boats.

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>>50693060
I feel like Ogre pirates aren't all that far out there, even if they're just using another factions ship. As for beastmen, I agree but at the same time I was very surprised to see a Skaven boat, even if all that boat did was get close enough to board me.

If I remember correctly, Mordheim alludes to Dwarf Pirates who don't use the steam ships. Or that could of been a fan thing, I can't remember, but they were Slayers with pistols and handaxes basically

What would a Lizardmen crew even consist of?

>>50692829
>>50693148
>hafling ship consisting of a ramshackle raft with a few hot soup pot launchers, a dozen fishing poles and a field kitchen
>tied to the backs of a few ogres, who just swim in the water, devouring small fish and plankton, like whales

>>50693148
lizardmen don't a ship, they are aquatic, ain't they?

or they can have a flying stone pyramid or something

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>>50693208
I doubt they're aquatic enough for an ocean. Although that would be antagonist tier nightmare fuel if they were en masse.

But a flying stone pyramid sounds Slaan pimpin'

>>50693194
I didn't even think of the little buggers. Now I need to have my landlocked midgets some sea action too

I feel like they'd use merchant ships a lot. After all the Empire would do the actual Navy.

>>50693148
The Battle game has dwarf pirates as part of the Dogs of War working out of Sartosa. They're Long Drong's Slayer Pirates.

And Skaven have some of the best tech -- they should have submarines and repurposed, giant, deep-sea fish turned into submarines by Clan Moulder.

>Lady of the Lake is Sigmar who decided to explore other sides of sexuality after having shed flesh and becoming a god
>The reason (s)he answers so few players only because (s)he listens only to handsome Warrior Priests

>>50693250
Halflings outside the moot are uniformly caterers and cooks. They wouldn't have their own ships. They'd work as cooks and quartermasters on Empire ships.

Can we get the scans of the roleplay books?
Particularly second edition.

>>50693250
>>50693208
or a large dinazoah with an armored howdah. either a real marine one, like leopluradon, or a landlubbing one, but capable of swimming and carrying a lot of people, like diplodocus.

>>50693265
Let me tell you a story of Gimbo Fishmuncher, great halfling chef, who decided to travel the high seas, taste all the foreign foods, and above all, fish in all the seas and rivers in the world and taste all the fishes in the world...

I just made that up, but you get the idea.

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>>50693250
Speaking of the Empire's ship design is abysmal. They have 3 ships in core (everyone does) and one of them was only designed in response to the Bretonians. Now Man o' War obviously wasn't GW's focus at basically any time really, but that is just sad. In the updates they get something approaching an innovation by sticking a massive cannon on the prow of their ship of the line. While cool and something I definitely want more of, my issue with that is the Wolfship already had most of it's armament in the prow

http://jake.ryft.org/warhammer/manowar/

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>>50693265
Uniformly is a military issue. There could be a halfling merchant ship. Sure it wouldn't a unique design or circumstance, but still

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>>50693319
That was best ship in Age of Empires 2, so I object to you thinking that's bad design!

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>>50693265
>Halflings outside the moot are uniformly caterers and cooks.
But what about all the halfling pimps, second-hand horse salesmen and loansharks?
Who is going to fence those silver candlesticks you nicked from the cult hideout?

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>>50693254
Yeah if Skaven are going to get ships, it makes sense they'd go full warp nuts on it. I agree with them being able to pull off some stupid crazy warpstone submarine thing. Especially since the Dwarves already have a steam submarine design

But nope, they have a rape raft. sad really.

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As Citadel stopped doing their Halfings back in '90, where can I get some comfy, oldschool tenderfoots that fit?

>>50692829
Skaven can have slave-driven ramming boats. Officially, they have to accelerate fast, thanks to an experemental warpstone steam engine, and smash the enemy ship to bits with their spiked hull.
In reality, they have to accelerate fast and hope the engine doesn't explode until they hit the target, sending splinters and spikes in all direction, taking out a few ships and crippling a few more.
Basically, a nuclear fireship.

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>>50693271
They are (mainly the second edition) in the OP repository.

>>50693344
>implying halfling wouldn't just eat the horse

>>50693254
>>50693351
and an invisible eshin ship

>>50693344
There is also canon Sam Spade halfing ripoff in Marienburg.

He was from that old short stories anthologies, like Wolf Riders. While Drachenfels is rather 3/10 and rather skub (still more cool than Nagash IMHO) those book were great and I recommend them.

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>>50693291
Yes. Maybe. I don't know. Giant fucking turtle maybe?

>>50693336
My issue isn't at it's bad design per se, my issue is that it's improving on something they already had while neglecting what they were lacking in and still being the original's contemporary. It increased the choice to 4 but it's also more of the same. So I'm disappointed by the lost potential. Well really I'm disappointed by the fact that it was the only additional ship

And it looks way cooler than that. It's actually really up the Empire's ally and sadly about their only ship that is. I'll see if I can find a picture

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>>50693359
That's perfect. Thanks. Anymore? Something with their flame or plague tech maybe? Maybe something incorporating the bell?

>>50692829

Chaos Dwarf dreadnought has to be the BBEG. Their ships are among the most 'modern' of any in the setting, like the regular Dwarfs, except powered by slave daemons :DDDDD

>>50692829
dunno whom it would fit, but in Sid Meier's Pirates! one of the most popular and funniest ships was indian canoe. It was very small, incredibly fast, could sail against wind, and was nearly impossible to hit with cannonfire due to size and speed. You basically rushed to the enemy ship, challenged the enemy captain to duel and killed him before your 8-man crew got slaughtered.

Probably Dark or Wood Elves?

>>50693356
I had a poke around and found the following:
http://westfaliafantasybattles.com/halfmen#!/Halflings/c/17898025/offset=0&sort=normal
http://www.blackhat.co.uk/product-category/28mm-miniatures/28mm-miniatures-shattered-isles-fantasy/28mm-miniatures-shattered-isles-fantasy-halfling-militia/
http://www.stonehavenmini.com/halflings/

Halflings seem like quite a popular third party thing.

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>>50693467
I... forgot they existed...

And actually I know relatively little of them either (go figure)

Surely they'd be different enough from the dwarves that they're not just a recolour of the steam tech right?

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>>50693483
It'd give the Wood elves their only feasible way to be included.

In Man o' War Dark Elves have two ships and ferry mini sea monsters as their "ships of the line" because they apparently find sea battles distasteful. Despite being raiders and all. I personally think this is rather limiting and really does them an injustice considering their lore and especially how bling their designs could be.

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>>50693336
I couldn't find a picture from either the computer or tabletop game, so here's it's page from the rulebook

>>50693458
sure

>Bellship
>a massive roughly round ship made of rotten wood, with a stone arch with the Bell in the center
>very slow, mostly remain stationary, summoning storms and warp-lightning


>Poison Wind Frigate
>armored ship with a big funnel-shaped cannon up front and few poison wind mortars
>driven by a warpstone engine
>comes into close range and just gasses stuff with its frontal cannon
>mortars are weak, just for some extra kick
>when it's destroyed, it leaves a massive cloud of toxic fumes, that deny enemies the territory for a while. maybe have the cloud drift, if there're rules for wind?

>Stormship
>metal ship filled with Stormvermin, and driven by a few Rat-Ogres on oars
>rams into enemy ship and stormvermin and rat-ogres pour out


>Marineblight
>absolutely massive rotting galleon driven by a miriad of slaves on oars
could alternatively be the pestilens ship, or carry the Bell, or have options to be outfitted for any of the clans


>Sea Shadow
>giant manta ray with warpstone shards embedded, enslaved by Enshin sorcerers
>bilge-runners cling to its back, breathing through bamboo tubes, ninja-style
>the ship itself is almost invisible until it's too late, when bilge-runners are already climbing to board your ship

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>>50693566
If anything this shows just how much potential and neglect the Naval side of the lore is. The Hellhammer is so Empire and yet it's the only thing even remotely like it in game

>>50693494

>And actually I know relatively little of them

The Chaos Dwarfs only have one ziggurat-city, the largest in the world, in which all the non-military castes live.
The River Ruin, which is basically a massive slough of slag and industrial waste, is what connects the city to the sea.

>Surely they'd be different enough from the dwarves that they're not just a recolour of the steam tech right?

They only really deploy fleets to capture slaves, so the ships are like warp-powered dreadnoughts crossed with slave ships crossed with those trucks you see on the motorway filled up with livestock.

I don't know about you but that gives me something to play with that doesn't involve axes, beer, grudges or steam.
The chaos dwarfs are lazy enough to employ others to actually capture the slaves, with perhaps a hidden outpost on a sinister island where these agents bring the goods to be picked up by whatever nightmare vessel you can come up with.

>>50693574
>The River Ruin, which is basically a massive slough of slag and industrial waste, is what connects the city to the sea.
so they, like, live downstream from Ankh-Morpork?

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>>50693004
Because I could

>>50693494
>>50693574
in Dreadfleet they have a mechanical kraken submarine

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>>50693595
Wasn't dreadfleet a boardgame with zero or next zero customisation and very far removed from Man o' War? Which now that I think about it, is saying something

>>50693606
yes, it was
it's still a warhammer game, so can potentially be used as inspiration... maybe

nothing wrong with mechanical kraken submarine anyway

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>>50693619
No there isn't, I'm just surprised something like that (I.e. imaginative) was in there. From what I remember dreadfleet was supposed to be a dud in all respects

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>>50693633
I'll fully admit what I learned of Man o' war I learned last night and today and I know basically nothing of Dreadfleet besides it's reputation

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>>50693639
http://jake.ryft.org/warhammer/mowstuff/MOWrulebook.pdf
This is the main rulebook if anyone want's to take a look, but it's lacking some factions

Worth taking a look at are the various forms of propulsion used. Bretonnia & the Empire use oars and sails, Dwarves use steam, High Elves use superior elven fiat, Dark Elves use magic and Orcs use treadwheels

And ramming is a viable and encouraged tactic

What if Empire was based on some other European culture, instead of Germany? What if it were medieval Italy or Spain?

Enough about boats and pictures of Asian toddlers and back to WFRP.

Power Behind the Throne, the fourth book in the Enemy Within saga, focuses on Middenheim. But I have a feeling that the characterization of the city and its denizens has changed drastically since then. Would anyone be able to help me modify it so it's in keeping with the current fluff?

>City of Ulric on Fauschlag Rock, accessible via four great viaducts leading up to the top or chairlifts.

(Seems fine)

>The city is known for two other things, in addition to the Cult of Ulric, is proclivity for wizards and Dwarfs. The city invited wizards to defend it early in its history and his been home to a Wizard's and Alchemist's Guild and wizards are important in the city's defense.

This goes against the Empire's general attitude on magic and the history about Magnus the Pious and the colleges of magic. More than that, it just makes wizards way too common and changes the tone from 'gritty fantasy Germany' to a generic D&D "Wizard's City!" The Dwarfs are fine.

>Ruled by Graf Boris Todbringer, an elder statesmen with BOTH EYES INTACT who has three children, Heinrich (his bastard and favorite), Stefan (a retard), and Katarina (another bastard and the 'princess'). Since the death of his second wife, he's become enfeebled and sad. He rambles, is forgetful, and cannot sustain concentration for more than a few seconds. He spends most of his time in bed and when he must appear in the throne room, he is swathed in blankets.

Whaaaaaat the fuck? Why is Boris so different? And how can this be fixed?

>>50693925
I see nothing wrong. That's how Sigmar-abhorring heathen should be. He's probably and norscan and a nurgle cultist too.

>>50693905
>What if it were medieval Italy or Spain?
Then it would be Tilea or Estalia?

>>50693695
So I read over it and it's definitely very underdeveloped. The orcs for instance go from Hulk to no gun ramming boat. While the drill is awesome that's too little, they haven more warmachines for one, I think they should also have more goblin influence. But beyond replacing the whole crew with goblins I can't think how right now

>>50693964
I mean, if it was the major force, with developed background, history, influence on other countries, lots of fluff, proper armybook, central faction in the setting, etcetera, etcetera - not a random name slapped on a map and two units in a shared outdated armybook.

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>>50693972
Well in the expansion that gives flyers they get a wyvern. So I think they disparity is a bit extreme.

As for the goblins they could get that goblin flight ballista thingy. Beyond that I think it would just be small ships, dingys even

>>50693986
Hard to say without a lot of time dedicated to developing said nation. It's changing a fundamental part of the setting, so there is no easy one post answer.

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>>50693986
I think they have fan made army books like Ind, Cathay and Nippon do. But really they'd just be like Kislev but... further away. Maybe if Araby started shit but then they'd need supporting too. Basically the same as now but we'd hear about it I guess

>>50694004
That's something I guess. What kind of ships did Grom the Paunch sail on? Anyway maybe they could have like goblins swinging ball & chains off of the main deck or squigs being launched really short range out of catapults or something. The rules really aren't wild enough for Orcs & Goblins

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>>50693986
>I mean, if it was the major force

The problem here is that for the same reason that Estalia and Tilea aren't considered "the major force" by you, is the same reason we can't adequately answer your question better than to say "It would be like Estalia or Tilea".

I realize that's super-unhelpful.

But instead, let me propose this; if Estalia and Tilea were as developed as The Empire, what would they be like? Or, what can we add to Estalia and Tilea that would still be in line with established fluff?

There's some fan material already, it's supposed to be pretty good, but I haven't read it, so I feel unqualified launching these questions, but there it is, I did it anyway.

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>>50694083
>What kind of ships did Grom the Paunch sail on?
Goblin made ones. Nothing descriptive about them, just that the fleet was massive.

>The rules really aren't wild enough for Orcs & Goblins
See that's how I feel. None of the factions have any real identity, it really needs fleshing out, even if it's just in fluff

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>>50694087
I haven't bothered to read the Tilean or Estalian ones, mostly due to disinterest. But the Cathay, Ind & Nippon ones are thorough is not completely reaching (but that's understandable). If anything they rely on the real life countries a bit too much. But they're still really interesting. There's also an Amazon one too but that's pretty mundane and super fan-ficcy.

And by as developed do you mean like the in the army book or technologically developed? Because in either way I feel they would have very little crunch identity to call their own

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>>50694161
Oh, when I said developed, I meant narratively, thematically, fluff-wise, etc.

I honestly didn't even consider army books or crunch, because I never played the TT. My sole interest is the setting and roleplaying, really. I wanted to play the TT when I was younger, but the price points were just way too high for me and my family.

>>50693925

>More than that, it just makes wizards way too common and changes the tone from 'gritty fantasy Germany' to a generic D&D "Wizard's City!"

Look up early modern German universities. Cover that shit in grit and grimdark, marinate in wizard's guff, and you have something to work with.

>>50692829
I'm pretty sure I saw giant sea reptiles working as lizardmen ships in some of the old books. I think it was a giant turtle.

>>50694269
That was in the General's Compendium. Might have been in older books too but it was posted in the last thread from GC.

>>50693148
>I was very surprised to see a Skaven boat

They're literally the more advanced race in the setting. World war 1 tier, except with magic.

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>>50693571
Ah I missed this, sorry for not replying

>Bellship
Sounds fine if a bit mundane. I feel it needs a bit more to it

>Poison Wind Frigate
There are rules for wind, it mostly affects speed (being up or down wind) so taking advantage of that is an interesting idea. As for the mortars I think that's necessary since the funnel cannon wouldn't always be viable. But I think the mortars would be better off being solids

>Stormship
Sounds good. But can rat-ogres be made to row oars? Would that not be a bit too disciplined for them?

>Marineblight
Perfect

>Sea Shadow
A manta ray? Where from? How?

I just don't see the rats capturing a manta ray.

hey so anons in manowar corsair what do I do with ships that have raised the white flag, is there a way to loot them>/make them my own?

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>>50694217
Ah fair enough. Well like I said the ones that I've ready are well done and interesting, although they draw a bit too much from their real world counterparts in my opinion. Which is probably why I find the Amazonian one the weakest since there's no real world counterpart. As for Tilea & Estalia, well it'd mean there was some actual power plays going one beyond good and evil

>>50694303
Link?

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>>50694269
Yeah most people are saying something along these lines

>>50694316
Sure but as far as I'm aware they're an underground species with no ports. It's not a tech thing, it's a "where are the ships coming from" thing. That and the one Skaven ship I've seen in Cosair was literally an overcrowded raft, not a warship.

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>>50693925
If you want to keep it true to modern canon, the biggest problem is the Ar Ulric.

Emil Valgeir's in his 80s probably. I'm not sure he has the... stamina to perform the Ar Ulric's role in PBtT.
I suppose Ulric's blessing can be a powerful thing.

I'd probably use a high priest instead and either say that Emil Valgeir stays away from politics or is currently somewhere else.
The latter might work better since it's the vote that's important in the adventure.

>>50692711
White skin, stark browns, heavy use of tree spirits

>>50693986
Look up the Tilea Project.

I spent a lot of time making that you ingrates

>>50694443
Could it not simply be an Ar-Ulric prior to Emil Valgeir?

>>50694413
There are vast underground rivers and oceans, some with external access. There are entire Skaven clans centered around plying the black seas.

Skaven are literally everywhere except Ulthuan.

>>50693925
There's a quest/scenario/campaign book for 2d Edition that deals specifically with Middenheim, with about half the book just being background information, called Ashes of Middenheim.

Be aware, though, that there's still a Wizard & Alchemist's Guild in Middenheim.

The fact that you have to be part of the Colleges and Sanctioned does not stop Wizards from banding together in Guilds, in fact, it may even be more or less mandated by the city.

>>50693265
Gollum rode a canoe when he found the one Ring.

>>50693356
I know of great Kickstarter ones that are not yet in retail.

>>50694443
I dunno, like you say, Ulric's Blessing can probably be a very powerful thing. We are talking about the leader of the Ulrican Cult. Him still being amazeballs in his 80's isn't that big of a stretch.

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>>50692295
Could Mr. Teatime beat Chaos?

>>50695337
It's not his combat ability that's the issue. (Massive spoilers)
It's the fact that he's having an affair with a 28-year-old lady of the court. Which is believable with the 48-year-old Ar-Ulric presented in the adventure, but less so with geriatric Emil Valgeir who has a grey beard down to his waist.

>>50695903
Fair point. That said.
>STRENGTH OF ARMS IS NOT ALL ULRIC GIVES HIS CHOSEN

Which rulebook(?) is the best option to buy wrt history, geography, lore, etc?

I know 8th edition has this huge 500+ pages one, but that's too pricy just for the sake of reading fluff.

>>50696435
Only special ed rulebooks give a full overview. Everything else focuses army by army.

But the older edition hardcovers may be cheaper. 7e I know had a smaller but stil good section.

Or you can DL anything in the OP.

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>>50693208

>>50696583

I saw the files, but I'd prefer a pretty book :) and a cheap solution, like two years ago I could get the 4th ed 40K rulebook for $3.

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>mfw meeting up with several others this weekend for some games
>mfw full day of awesome battles

Can't wait. If on the off chance any of you guys are based near Nottingham UK, there's still some spaces...

>>50697196
Good luck and have fun.

Is $20 for the dwarves half of battle for skull pass a good deal? I just want some dwarves damnit.

>>50697656
Uh, yeah? Get the pony, too.

>>50697674
Pony?

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Looking for some feedback on a magical weapon an enemy uses.

It's an ancient hand-and-a-half sword that automatically confirms crits. Additionally, it worsens that crit by one degree on the table, and the result is rolled twice - with the more severe result preferred.

The downside is that it applies these same effects to a (living) user. Of course, if the players somehow get it, they would have to find this fact out on their own. The hard way.

>>50697689
Skull Pass comes with a pony with a cart full of dwarf goods. I used to have it for WFRP until my ex stole it from my apartment.

>>50697762
shieeet dwarves and a pony definitely doing it

Island of Blood is coming back with squares.

Could this be the beginning of Warhammer's comeback?

AoS is here to stay that much is obvious. But the current change in leadership and the slowdown in conversions from WHFB to AoS makes me feel as if they don't really know what they're doing anymore.

Could WHFB come back as a specialist?

>>50698243
I'm sure it's for clearing their stock out, but an optimistic part of me says it could be a feeler, something that may affect future decisions based on how it sells. I will most likely get a copy as I have no High Elves and that griffin would make for a great monster on its own.

>>50698243
I think they realized saying "No, only Age Of Sigmar now" is a great way to cause an explosion of third party model manufacturers and rulesets.

They don't want to support AoS. But I wouldn't be shocked to see the 8e rules go back up on their site. They seem to be realizing most of the fanbase want to go back.

Speaking of, where are they taking requests for which old models to MTO next? I saw somewhere that they are. We could all ask for Regiments of Renown and Mordheim.

>>50698332

Yeah I can't see it happening either. More from a logistical point of view, I can't see them bringing all the discontinued models back that would be needed for WHFB.

I think they do regret scrapping the old IP. You can see them doubling down on retro 40K stuff at the moment.

Maybe we'll keep skirmish style rules but the lore will get revived.

>>50698377
* I mean "They don't want to support Fantasy".

>>50698379
Or even a common sense point of view. Bringing back WHFB is like going back to the office after you shit on your boss's desk and groped the secretary right before saying you quit on the PA system. Unless they go full blown head in the sand and pretend the last few years just didn't happen and say Battles never left, business as usual.

>>50698379
I don't think they'll bring everything back, but they'll use Made To Orders and the models they don't axe to still sell to Fantasy players. No financial reason to say that they only want AoS players like they have been doing. Now that Kirby is stepping down, they seem to be trying to get a proper fanbase again.

>>50698477
They'll try to have their cake and eat it too. No shame.

They'll just make alternate universes. Fantasy, TW:W, AoS, Storm, WAR, Blood Bowl. All alternate universes, play what you want but buy our models to do it.

They tried to force the Fantasy community to play AoS by burning the boats, and it didn't work. So instead they'll just put Fantasy below deck on the SS Sigmar.

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>>50697762

That shits going in the Dammaz Kron.

>>50698546
We were of little financial concern for them and playing our 3-6 ed. armies for years. Even disaster of AoS sold better than WHFB of late, just because they put out love and relases that Warhammer was not getting, while being a whole new line.

Let's stop being delusive. They are still GW and Roudtree was Kirby's right hand man. You can't go back.

They may bring Mordheim back, but chances are it lands in the stupid setting of Realms. And then I would seriously pass on it.

Seriously, they hurt you so many times, that your hope is only Stockholm Syndrome.

>>50699475
Blood Bowl is the same.

I'm not saying they'll ever bring back Fantasy. But they'll acknowledge that it still has players, and set it behind AoS rather than stuff it under the stairs out of sight.

>>50699569
Blood Bowl is not a breakthrough, it's a board game like Space Hulk or Dreadfleet.

>>50699624
Right, but it didn't have Sigmarines. So Mordheim can go either way.

>>50698243
>Could WHFB come back as a specialist?

I sincerely hope not. After what they did to the setting, I don't want GW anywhere near Warhammer Fantasy again. It's enough of a chore to keep End Times and Age of Sigmar out.

>>50699832
End Times is the new Storm Of Chaos if they stop saying its dead and buried.

>>50699939
>End Times is the new Storm Of Chaos
Except infinitely worse.

>>50699939
Better to declare that nothing marketed under End Times ever happened. It was just a ruse.

>>50700322
They still need it to tie into AoS. Because they will NOT squat AoS unless they scrap all non-boxed non-Tolkien non-Gridiron fantasy.

But if they chose to sell to Fantasy players again even if they didn't support the game beyond putting the IoB startup book as a pdf on their site, then it would be yet another alternate universe.

One where Slaanesh suddenly vanishes for no reason for awhile, because shared Warp.

>>50700472
Use multiverse and keep them separate. 40ks Slaanesh differs from Fantasy Slaanesh as Fantasies was there with his brothers while 40k exploded into existence through the Eldar's actions. No reason why you can't keep AoS Slaanesh in the fridge while Fantasy's is still kicking.

Draw a line between them and no one will care, and the writers don't need to step on each others toes.

>>50700595
It was just a joke, anon.

>>50700637
It wasn't an attack but a real suggestion. I wouldn't have given AoS a second thought if Battles was still supported. Keeping them segregated would have been a wise decision just like keeping our Generals segregated. They can do their thing while we do ours.

>>50700472
>They still need it to tie into AoS.
No they don't.

But I do understand your reasoning, which is part of why I don't want GW to pick Fantasy up again.

We're finally reaching a state again where it's clear that Fantasy isn't going anywhere, and fans of WHF everywhere can start to weed out all the End Times/Age of Sigmar nonsense from the massive clusterfucks it created in collective sources.

They should just stay the fuck away at this point. Literally everything they do makes things worse.

>watching old fantasy battle reports
>"he's Bs 4 but it's over half range and you're behind light cover and you're skirmishers so that's hitting on 6s"
>Ork boys hit themselves in the face for no reason
>gyrocopter crashes and all the dwarf squads run away
What was it like to play fantasy?

>>50693695
Something interesting I find fluffwise is that the rulebook mentions in a story excerpt that a Bretonnian noble has estates in the Southlands, and there are Bretonnian colonies there.

Is this just really old fluff? How would Bretonnian colonies survive in such a dangerous land, filled with Orcs and not far from the Tomb Kings?

>>50701931
Tenuously. The Tomb Kangz don't fuck around too much outside their giant sterile desert*, and orcs are barely more intelligent than chimps for the most part, and an enemy Bretonnians are well used to fighting. Remember, there's Araby down there, too.


*results may vary

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>>50701931
Probably the same way real life colonial powers survived in dangerous foreign lands. With grit, determination and not underestimating the enemy. Being watched over by a goddess should help out quite a bit, too.

>>50701885
A lot of fun, but two of those things are explained by just rolling badly. Once my Damsel of the Lady jumped off a tower, survived the Strength 10 hit and ran up to a Chaos Sorcerer and beat him to death. You can get funny results with dice.

>>50702377
Monsters seem to be majority t5 which seems weak as fuck to me. They seem to just get deleted by cannons.

Arc of fire seems annoying, all that maneuvering seems so slow and clunky.

Unit sizes seem out of control.

>>50702627
Depends on the edition, really. T5 isn't something to sniff at, but cannon sniping was definitely a problem. Firing arcs was only a problem if you had Move or Shoot, which was usually restricted to gunpowder weapons.

Unit size wasn't an issue, at least for me and my group, until 8th when it went from normal to retarded. Running with Death Stars could win you a game but it was a risky gamble where you were asking to lose because you got flanked and rolled snake eyes for your Break Test. 8th made massive units the name of the game, but still gave you spells that could wipe out said units in a single turn. It was like the Close Combat and Magic phases were written by two different people, and when it came time to submit their work they didn't have a backup to prevent the mess that happened.

>>50702706
>but still gave you spells that could wipe out said units in a single turn
No fucking joke, I'm seeing things here like
>big spell goes off
>"I kill 4d6 guys, no saves allowed"
>13 guys just wiped out like nothing
>"good thing it was a 30 man unit :^)"

How do you like Daemons?
Orks and goblins?
Tomb kings?
Vampire counts?

>>50702747
Just to put it quickly.
>>Daemons
Didn't need to be rolled out of Hordes. Felt like making specific Space Marine chapters which gave less attention to other armies.
>>Orcs & Goblins
Fun, but seemed a little underpowered at times. From what I saw they still felt like a 6th edition army compared to the rest of the power creep.
>>Tomb Kings
I liked them better when they didn't have a dozen monsters.
>>Vampire Counts
Removing Blood Lines wasn't the worst thing in the world, as it doesn't necessarily dictate which traits you gain which was easier to recreate with the Build-a-Vampire introduced in 7th edition. Changing Necromancers and calling the lore 'Lore of the Vampires' was still pretty dumb.

hey /tg/ I aquired these models with ridicuos amounts of poorly painted brets in a box, can somone tell me if they have been given a gloss coating?

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>>50703667
I am a silly man

>>50703816
Doesn't look like it. You've got some very handsome minis there.

>>50703935
I know anon, truly some treasures I've stumbled across. I learnt a new way to do eyes from them too. I plan to ardcoat them then testors dullcote them to remove the shine on cloth/body bits

>>50702747

This was why I could have lived with AoS if it was just a new rule set and not a squatting of the setting and factions.

28mm really is suited to skirmish. 15mm to 10mm is the right scale for rank and file in my opinion.

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Does it snow in Averland? During the winter obviously.

>>50693494
In the man-o-war game they had barges that carried the nastiest artillery pieces ever set to sea (take that Empire ship x10), but there was a little blurb about the Chaos Dwarfs repeatedly trying and failing to crack a high-elf sea fort and navy. Crunchwise the Chorfs had the strongest fleet with a massive AoE cannon, rocket launchers, and steam-driven rams.

>>50704899
Since it's right next door to Wissenland which is a rocky, cold piece of shit, yes.

>>50705038

I just wondered since it seems to be a slightly warmer region and it's not that far from the Badlands.

>>50705082
I don't have Sigmar's Heirs open at the moment, but it probably has shorter, less harsh winters but still has them. Once you get past the midpoint of the Border Princes it's probably nothing but sun.

>>50705105

I imagine the Worlds Edge mountains have snow topped peaks though?

Kind of like the Dolomites in Austria.

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>>50705129
Yup.

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>>50705175

Cool. Really then I should convert my mountain guard to have boots and such, since they patrol the region around Black Fire Pass.

>>50705237
If you're able to, I don't see why not.

I never noticed but you could probably convert those models pretty easily into some Kislivites.

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>>50705257

They're pretty nice models and well suited to the northern provinces.

Their bodies are also great as a base for Mordheim Witch Hunters.

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>>50697196
>finally teach myself through sheer will power, lurking, and solo games vs. myself
>get the rules down and memorized
>bunch of friends say they would love to learn and play
>invite a bunch of friends over to teach
>get snacks, alcohol, chairs, music, even built a fucking wargamming table with loving and tender care and attention to detail
>download every WHFB book so everyone gets to take a look on multiple tablets I had.
>day comes, no one can show. Everyone says theyd rather have the physical books (but scoff at $50 dark elf book and say no), stuff came up
>Give up, just say if anyone wants, we could just play rock band and drink
>Suddenly everyone is free in a few hours and will be there

I fucking get the hint. I fucking spent all of my free time trying to build terrain on my new table, and made movement trays and found shit to supplement models till we built up....I just want to fucking play.

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>>50706232
That's where you trick them. Also, they're probably intimidated by either the (comparative) complexity of the rules and the social stigma.

I had one player want to show up to my WFRP games often but he would always drop out at the last minute. One day he finally showed up and didn't miss a game since. I'm sure once they've tried it, they'll have a lot of fun. Even if they don't know what's going on. Also post your table. That's one thing I want, but I've never lived in a place long enough to warrant making one.

>>50701885
I'm not sure if you're trying to make some point about how WHFB had too many rules or was random or something, but I think that sounds fucking amazing. Like Rollplaying mass warfare.

>>50704899
>Does it snow in Averland? During the winter obviously.

The Empire borders Kislev and all of The Empire is situated in North and Central not!Europe. During the pre-modern age, to boot.

You bet your ass it snows there. It snows fucking everywhere. You probably can't move without snow-shoes in the deep winter and if you want to travel, get your fucking sleighs and skiis out.

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>>50705082
If you think about it, it's pretty far from the Badlands. Between them, there's The Border Princes and the mountains.

Those mountains really matter, because if we assume that parts of the coastlines are kept warm by the sea and ocean streams, Averland is completely cut off from that.

The winters are probably a little bit less intense, a little bit milder, and possibly quite a bit wetter than further north, and I can imagine that flooding can be a pretty big problem at times, but do they get snow? Yeah, they get snow, and I'm thinking northern US levels of snow.

If you live in a civilized region of the western world bar northernmost Scandinavia, Alaska or Canada, you probably have a hard time imagining just how crazy it can get. And even in many of those regions, it doesn't get the kind of snow and ice that it used to. These days we barely get snow in southernmost Sweden, but less than a century ago, the ice between Sweden and Denmark still iced over like clockwork, and they drove firetrucks over.

Averland would probably have a mix between the climates of northern Italy and central Germany. Only as I write this do I realize that Averland should be such a shithole in spring, when the mountain ice melts.

It's possible that the mountains would protect them, though, resulting in a relatively dry climate (but still with spring floods). Depends on the climate of other places and the winds.

>>50705082
>not that far from the Badlands.
Are the Badlands warm, though? I always imagined that they were cold as fuck, just barren. Not a frozen wasteland, but just cold and inhospitable.

>>50706232
>bunch of friends
>everyone is free in a few hours and will be there
At least you have people to invite.

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>>50706961
>>50707071
To be fair, Averland is the warmest of the Empire provinces. It's famed for its wine for that reason.
That continental climate though. It's ensconced right between three mountain ranges there. I'm guessing the climate is comparable to Hungary, it being located in the Carpathian basin.

Coincidentally, this is actually an important topic for me. My wfrp party is in Averland and it's the beginning of Kaldezeit. I think they're going to be spending winter with the Dwarves in the Black Mountains, which might get a little chilly.

>>50694328
>But can rat-ogres be made to row oars? Would that not be a bit too disciplined for them?

Make them run in giant hamserwheels that power or simpely are paddlewheels.

>>50694328
>A manta ray? Where from? How?
>I just don't see the rats capturing a manta ray.
Magic!
*sigh* Fine, make it a furry manta ray with rat's head. Moulder creation, blha-blah-blah.

>>50695806
Okay, Chaos > Dragons
Dragons, particularly Smaug, are, by his confidence mantra "I am fire, I am death." Death.
Mr. Teatime failed to beat death and died himself.

So no, Mr. Teatime couldn't beat Chaos.

>>50695943
I don't really think middle finger counts as divine gift, even though he gives his followers exactly that, being Crom expy and all.

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>>50707494
I don't see that either

Although really the part that gets me is the manta ray part. Not the rest of it=

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On one hand I want party to have campaign in Bretonia, that will result in 1 ed. Lichemaster and foiling ole Henrich Kemmlers plans to get that Monastery.

I thought it would be good check, to not get stranded halfway The Enemy Within combined with Restless Dead.

Yet, I have problem-how to make adventures with a randomly generated party in Bretonia, where being noble is all? I thought that a strain of episodes ending with one player becoming Knight of the Realm sounds nice, yet how to do this with ratcatchers, apothecaries and cart drivers?

>>50707544
squirrels are close enough, right, being rodents too?

okay, imagine flying squirrel

now give it rat head for full immersion

now give it gills and webbed feet

now scale it up a few hundred times

a fully rodent not!manta ray

I needs inspiration.
Post photos of your armies!

>>50707109
There's a story where Settra is fighting in the badlands and it's snowing. I always imagined the badlands as being like a mix between the Mongolian steppes/gobi desert and the Wild West. Worth mentioning that in real life it snows as far south as Arizona and Egypt. Throw in magic fucking with your climate and snow anywhere makes sense.

>>50699569

That reminds me, I've got to really buy a Bloodblow skaven quarterback, they make amazing warlords

>>50701885

I routinely play it with my friends, since we have a full field and a lot of free time.

Some recollection from our last game (skaven vs lizardmen, skaven using the army book project codex), 4k each

>Abomination tearing through saurus warriors and then resurrecting, continuing to tear through saurus warriors
>Lord Kroak dueling with Screech Verminking, survived 3 rounds of close combat and managed to score a wound
>Thanquol killing himself with a miscast on the Dreaded 13
>Squeek Gnawtook's rats (6 str 2 hits) killing his lord (mounted on a carnotaur) with a 1+ armor save. Squeek got eaten by the carnotaur shortly after
>Tetto Eko chain lightning bouncing on 12 units on a single casting, scoring around 200 victory point and making 5 other units fleeing (including a 200 points jezzail units that flew off-screen, so killing 10% of my army point-wise with a single spell.
>Skavenslave with the Bless with Filth agument (poison attack) killing his BSB (3 venomous strikes out of 4)
>Both of my cannons blowing up turn 1


It's very swingy, but hilarious

>>50702747

That is your reward for fielding 30 phenix guards with the fucking dragon banner

>>50707518
>BE FREE LIKE THE GREAT WOLF, BE FRUITFUL, FIERCE, AND MULTIPLY!

In a wolfpack, only the Alpha mates. What is Ar-Ulric? He's the Alpha of the pack of Ulric. He's probably got 23 children with 31 different women, and still going strong at 80. Questioning his virility is fightin' words!

>>50707741
I doubt he fucks much. Not that he ain't manly, but he doesn't enjoy it. After all, a priest of god of winter must be... frigid. *ducks*

>>50707690
Instead of bland ogres I wish we'd gotten hobgobbla khan and the wolf rider Mongols

>>50707368
Paddle wheels powered by running slaves trying to stay high enough in the wheel to not be submerged in freezing cold ocean water.

The great 4 chaos gods are an amalgamation of emotions and concepts within the warp, or the realms of Chaos, and while they represent the totality of the warp, there's a host of other deities that are smaller, and overlap (Great Horned Rat is obviously part Nurgle, part Tzeentch; Khaine is very much of Khorne, and Ulric & Ursun overlap a great deal) not only with the big 4, but also with eachother, sometimes to the point where they're almost interchangeable (Isha, Shallya, Valaya, for example).

There are specifically aligned daemons, aligned with the big 4, and there are "neutral" daemons that aren't, and in many cases there are explicitly daemons of even lesser gods, such as Verminlords. This makes perfect sense, daemons being shards of whatever concepts of thoughts that shaped them.

So what would a daemon of Shallya be like?

>>50707934
Cute. CUTE!

>>50707934
If thoughts shape the warp, does that mean that we're taking agency away from it by merely existing? Did, in fact, the Materium strike first, forcing the Immaterium into painful mockeries of the real world?

>>50707934

By semi-canon the Horned Rat is (maybe) two different things, one a Tzeentch demon and the other a Nurglite that stepped in. This may or may not have caused them to fuse and come out as a distinct entity.

In EoT it makes a bid to ascend to major chaos god (by killing mostly everything else blowing up the moon, and then by blinking most of the skaven to the Warp.)

It also apparently succeds

>>50707886
>an army consisting of slightly better wolf rider goblins who act like skaven
>anything but bland
theyd be the greenskins equivalent of what bretonnia is for the empire

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>>50707886
I wouldn't say the Ogre Kingdoms are bland. The combination of gluttonous cannibals, giants and Huns is a pretty good one and goes back to the original etymology of the word 'ogre'.

I like hobgoblins, but what do they do better? They're just Mongols with green skin and wolves instead of horses.
I wouldn't mind some allied units for Ogres but there isn't much to build an army on.

>>50708026
>By semi-canon

Never ever heard this before. I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that I've never heard it before. Is this some End Times/Age of Sigmar nonsense?

I like the idea, though, although "distinct entity" is a bit iffy when we're talking about the Realm of Chaos. There's not really such a thing as a clearly distinct entity, after all. But I know what you mean.


>In EoT it makes a bid to ascend to major chaos god (by killing mostly everything else blowing up the moon, and then by blinking most of the skaven to the Warp.)
>It also apparently succeds

Well, considering that so much of End Times and Age of Sigmar makes no fucking sense whatsoever in relation to how the rest of the fluff, that can be safely disregarded in the context of actual Warhammer Fantasy.

>>50708058

Well, the skaven origin story is pure Tzeench, and for a long time in their history, skaven were Tzeench-ish in worldview. Mad plans, madder execution etc.

Since it seems unlikely that the Horned Rat existed as a full-fledged deity BEFORE the skaven, it's quite safe to assume that it was some sort of demon of Tzeench, with enough power to create a new race, that went out and tried to increase its power by birthing some cultist race.

Clan pestilens orginated much much later, in lustria. They had a "revelation" while mad and ravaged by disease, telling them to embrace plague instead of resisting it. From now then, the chief of the pestilens clan assumes the name of Nurglitch (the current one is Nurglitch the 7th, it seems). This is quite obiviously Nurgle's work.

When the Horned Rat physically appears, he combines aspects of both, which points out to him having embraced both the machiavellian scheming aspect (which was the original one) and the plaguebringer aspect (which was introduced much later)

>>50707317
Isn't Averland not!Bavaria?


WFRP 2ed question:
How do I magic items as collegiate wizard?
I know using ritual to make it but rules are quite vague about it's design.
Does anybody have any magic item creation ritual?
(Maybe for power stones?)
Any nice ideas for magic items?

>>50707934
When every "god/warp entity" gets to pull magic immortal demons out of its ass, you remove any kind of uniqueness Chaos daemons have (what little was there), besides, an immortal, magic force goes against the grimdark character of the setting, to top it off, they make for boring characters, since they are literally a sentient emotion

Assume potential "good demons" would get quickly destroyed in the warp by the more abundant Chaos ones

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>>50708429
Don't know how much demons they are but in 2ed rpg you could summon "divine servants", still it was considered as faux pas and priest risked angering his god.

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>>50708055
I actually really like the concept of ogres in Warhammer. If anything, my only gripe with them is that the Ogre Kingdoms seem too uniform, too trope-y, too flanderized.

A little bit like the elves or the modern-fluff Bretonnians, but at least the elves have three (overly) distinct factions, and I solve the issues I have with Bretonnia by reconciling older Bretonnian fluff (revolutionary era/three musketeers/sun king mish-mash) with the modern Bretonnian fluff (arthurian legend).

Under the surface, Bretonnia also have it's different factions and an interesting (implied) interaction with the wood elves.

But the Ogre Kingdoms? I'm not only not seeing anything like that, but I'm also not sure how you'd work it in, because Ogres are explicitly meant to be dumb as sacks of shit. There's some interesting themes and concepts, like the Great Maw, Gut Magic, the cannibalism, implied blood magic of some sort, but with other nearby areas rather underdeveloped (Chaos Dwarves, Cathay) it's hard to even create an interesting scenario based on conflict or cooperation.

I'd also like to work halflings into the Ogre Kingdoms somehow, even if it's simply a historical implication that they used to exist in symbiosis, but that the Ogres ended up eating all the Halflings.

Ogres have a lot of potential, but it's hard to make use of. Ogre Mercs are also interesting like hell, but again, hard to make use of. There's even Imperial Ogres, even in Mootland, and a sizable population in.. Ostermark, I think? Or is it Ostland? I keep mixing them up.

I also love the fact that there's ogres that are practically the only ones that sign on with Chaos out of their own free will; not corrupted, not brainwashed, not damned by association, nor forced into servitude. Just hungry.

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>>50708360
>Isn't Averland not!Bavaria?
Yeah, I just meant in terms of climate. They have similar geographical features.

It's worth remembering that the Empire is friggin' huge. Pic related.

>>50708577
Huh, thanks a lot. I have all the books and I've flipped through them all, but I've never sat down to read all of it, not even the Core Rulebook (even though I've played a lot).

But I've never played a priest that could actually use full spellcasting (Anointed) and I've never paid attention to the rituals in any book. This has completely passed me by.

I wonder what liquid the Shallyan Cult would prefer. I also wonder what Cult would prefer beer, especially since dwarven gods are never really covered in the books - which sucks ass.

WHFRP2 really could've used proper dwarf and elven supplements. Instead we got Chaos, Skaven and Vampire supplements that, while interesting and overall well-made, are a lot less useful than a dwarven or elven supplement would've been.

Hell, I love the Skaven, but if I had to choose, I'd take a fucking Halfling supplement for WHFRP2 over both the Skaven and the Vampire supplements.

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Okay, if WHFB is fiction, EXPLAIN THIS!

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Are any of the pre-made adventures for WFRP any good? Might be running a game soon and I figure I'd use a good pre-made to get them and me in the game as it would be my first time GMing.

>>50709443
Most of them are decent.
Which edition are you using?

2e has a lot of good adventures, but I'm not sure if there's a perfect 'starter' adventure. The one in the core book is kind of meh and the rest are either somewhat specialised or the beginning of a lengthy campaign.

>>50709551
I'm using 2e.

And I'm fine with a long-ish campaign.

>>50709551
I personally really like the starting adventure. It forces the players together in a way that makes sense, without them having to be in the same tavern and travel together for some weird reason, and it leads directly into Ashes of Middenheim, and it sets the stage for the players and their place in the world, since the situation relates immediately to the recently ended Storm of Chaos.

Also, playing the Core Rulebook starting adventure gives you a natural point for you to "timeskip" as the players get settled into Middenheim and get integrated into the ongoing world, whether that means that they become servants at a tavern or start working for the city watch there.

As much as I can say that it's not a very special adventure, I do think that it's one of the best starting adventures I've played in those regards. It does the job a starting adventure should do, very, very well. It feels like a very natural starting point that gets the group together, establishes recent events, and settles the players in the area, all at once. I love it.

The starting adventure in the Gamemaster Pack seems well-made as well, and it might actually give a better idea of how awful the setting is to people, so I really like it. However, I would prefer it if there was a good way to play both the Gamemaster Pack and the Core Ruleset adventures after eachother, but it would be really hard to excuse, I think.

It would be possible to run both concurrently, which could be really, really interesting, since it'd mean having two distinct plot lines at the same time, with independent resolutions, but it would require some work, most notably involving moving the events to conform with the quest in the Core Rulebook. But both adventures take place in or around the countryside and while travelling between locations, starting in a small town. So it shouldn't be hard.

>>50708429
>When every "god/warp entity" gets to pull magic immortal demons out of its ass, you remove any kind of uniqueness Chaos daemons have

Why on Earth would that be true? It is very clear that daemons of minor gods, Chaos or otherwise, aren't very common, so it's not getting pulled out of the ass.

But more than that, it wouldn't negate the unique nature of the daemons of the big 4 themselves, or other neutral daemons, any more than the mere existence of more gods than the 4 big ones do anyway.

>besides, an immortal, magic force goes against the grimdark character of the setting
>since they are literally a sentient emotion
There's literally an infinite amount of immortal magical forces in the setting, shaped by (semi-)sentient emotions and abstract concepts taken shapeless form within the Warp and the Realms of Chaos.

>Assume potential "good demons" would get quickly destroyed in the warp by the more abundant Chaos ones
That's a hell of an assumption, considering that the same could be said about any minor god in the face of the big ones. Nothing gets wiped out in the warp. Daemons are literally unkillable, because the thoughts and emotions and concepts that killed them would simply reshape them again. The idea of truly killing a daemon or god of any kind is almost absurd, unless you somehow murder the thing that gave it shape.

Presumably, and divine servants are protected by their gods, directly or indirectly, within whatever shape their particular corner of the infinite warp takes.

>>50708577
Divine Servants are, for all intents and purposes, "daemons". I can't interpret it any other way. The only difference is, much like the difference between, say, Hashut and Ursun, that one is "evil" and the other one isn't.

Ursun was probably a bad example, since he's a bit on the neutral side, all things considered, but pretty much all gods are. They just "are".

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>>50707934

>>50707507
Teatime had a plan to beat Death, he just wasn't in the middle of enacting it.

>>50707604
T9A forums have a lot of that.
Sadly, no good camera. Or finished armies for that matter...

>>50707736
At least it isn't White Lions.

>>50708100
Why would HR not precede Skaven?

>>50709376
Russian engineering.

>>50710356
>Why would HR not precede Skaven?
Because the Horned Rat would have to be created from something. Before the idea of the Horned Rat has coalesced in the warp, been formed from some thought or emotion or fear, an idea, he wouldn't wouldn't have formed.

So while I very much questions the claims presented in the post you're responding to (I had completely missed that post), at least that aspect I can completely agree with.

The Skaven origin story is very questionable and iffy to begin with, and pinning it all on Tzeentch and then introducing Nurgle isn't a given at all, or that two daemons somehow fused.

I think it is far more likely that the Great Horned Rat is a distinct entity that formed within the warp after the rise of the Skaven, that overlaps greatly with the concepts of which Tzeentch and Nurgle exists, even if the nurglish aspects were added later, in-universe historically. It is also entirely possible that it was an unaligned daemon entirely, who rose to godhood, becoming shaped by the beliefs of his worshippers.

>>50710562
Warp entities don't have origin stories in Fantasy, only in 40k.

>>50710581
A few do, namely Sigmar and Sotek. The majority existed in a time when writing down stuff was the least important thing to do.

>>50710680
Technically Sigmar is an ascended mortal like the Incarnates, and Sotek was created by belief but never confirmed to actually be real.

>>50710695
This was before ET nonsense. Sigmar was a presence in the Realm of Chaos like the other gods, not some asshole tumbling about the wind of azyr that is still somehow able to empower some of his followers.

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>>50708360
>How do I magic items as collegiate wizard?
Mostly, you don't. As far as I am aware, permanently enchanting items is something beyond the capabilities of most player characters, and each would require a custom ritual that could take years to prepare.

Most magic items in the world have formed naturally, been created with runecrafting, or enchanted with High Magic by supremely powerful elven wizards.

I think the rules for creating magical items through ritual are left intentionally vague, as to prevent players from trying to cite the book in order to game the system and trying to timeskip through stuff just so they can get what they want. By forcing the creation of an extensive ritual for the creation of a magic item, the agency is entirely in the hands of the GM, and he can modify it or make demands as they make sense or as he sees fit.

And in the WFRP system, I think that's pretty important, because magic items are supposed to be really, really rare, and not something that is simply produced.

>>50710734
That lore also continually suggested he and all other gods other than Chaos Gods don't exist too.

Hey guys, I just realized something.

In 1e and 2e Warhammer, the game was an RPG with an army. You had a small force thay gained experience and levels, choices to make, other players to fight with or against, and you had a DM who did most of the dice rolling.

Total War Warhammer is faithful to this in every respect. Its a perfect adaptation of not only Warhammer present, but past as well.

>>50710786
It also ignored or changed half the human gods for no real reason. Like Shallya is Taal's wife? Poor Rhya.

>>50710581
>Warp entities don't have origin stories in Fantasy, only in 40k.

That's not entirely true. While it's true that they don't have "origin stories" as such, everyone but the big 4 have formed one way or another.

They weren't always there, they were just warpstuff. They most likely didn't form until someone started believing in them in one way or another. But they are also timeless and forever, because time is not immutable in the warp. It is both infinite and non-existent. So sort that knot out any which way you want.

This is likely also true for the big 4, but given that they are supposed to encompass the totality of the warp and that the warp has always been there, it's impossible to tell.

But there is no reason whatsoever to believe that the Great Horned Rat existed as an individual concept before the creation of the Skaven. It is, however, entirely possible that the Great Horned Rat was created by the Skaven, sent an agent or avatar to a previous point in time, and created the Skaven, in order to realize himself.

>>50710695
>like the Incarnates
End Times and Age of Sigmar nonsense holds no sway here.

The concept of the winds of magic representing specific planes of existence is fucking retarded to begin with. The reason they're interpreted as the winds of magic is because that's how the humans interpreted and conceptualized them. The elves and Teclis, for example, see Aqshy, but it's not "fire" to them, but just another wind that behaves in another way.

There's possibly (but never confirmed in any way) an infinite number of winds, each of them splitting into an infinite number of winds more, like a fractal pattern of magic, all the way through the Warp. Qhaysh is when these are arranged in a specific, woven pattern, to interact in a predetermined, predictable manner. Dhar is when they're stagnating together, becoming a primordial rotting soup where each wind feeds off all the others.

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>>50710734
>>50710786
And let's not forget the ET idea of the chaos gods as individuals with their own wants, not entities formed from the warp itself, as much part of the warp as the warp is part of them. The very idea of them suddenly bending together and abandoning the game is so insanely stupid there's no words to describe it adequately.

Khorne is Khorne because he's formed from Khorne. Khorne could never be anything other than Khorne, because Khorne consists of 100% Khorne. Tzeentch couldn't stop scheming to save his life, because he literally consists of the concept of scheming.

End Times and Age of Sigmar are so stupid they make me want to reeeeeeee.

>>50710946
Anything written for 40k and fantasy plummets in quality after about 2005, there are some nuggets but just a complete nose dive in quality even if quantity goes up.

After 2010-2015? Fuck it, don't bother

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Okay guys, I dunno how many of you that actually play the game are left, but please teach me how to Dwarfy.

I have two boxes of Quarrelers/Thunderers that I've been doing nothing with for seven years since I got them on clearancs and TWW has made me want to make a Dwarf army. Local people play 6e, 8e, and T9A plus a few guys play KoW.

In addition to those two boxes I have a fuckload of Reaper Dwarf minis from over the years including the Bones 3 Kickstarter Dwarf King set, as well as Bugman and Helgar plus a Thane. I might be able to get a Skull Pass set. I have an Empire cannon set unused too.

So questions:
1) What do I absolutely need to buy for the games I can play?
2) What should I avoid buying?
3) How much is too much dakka to be fun to play against? Full ranged Core? Do Gyros count as part of range spam? Local comp is casual even at tourneys, but these guys are really good players. I don't want to cheese, but I don't want to always lose either.
4) How many is too many female proxies? I have like nine female Dwarf minis I can use. Paint them like Priestesses of Valaya and it will be fine? Or wives/daughters of a king? I know females are only like 10% of the Dwarf population, but in TWW I can assign like two to each character as a companion.

>>50710998
But I liked some of the post-2005 Black Library books...

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>>50711018
I mean I don't have this in hand, but will have it eventually. I think the king is too big on the base to use as a Thorgrim unfortunately.

Also, how do Dwarfs react to dragons ? I have a few dragon minis I can use as Gyrocopter proxies.

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Potentially unpopular theory: The 'hooded figure' that features in The Doom of Kavzar is Be'lakor in his guise as the Shadowlord or Dark Master.

Man, Be'lakor was cool back when he was just a mysterious force rather than the Starscream to Archaon's Megatron.
As an aside, this reading I just found is actually pretty sweet: https://youtu.be/dj2saeAef8k

>>50711120
I'd be fine with that, actually. As usual his attempts at power blow up in Be'lacucks face as the skaven don't work well with others, or themselvez.

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>almost 2 years later and people are still assblasted about Entimes

>>50711275
Gee, I wonder why people would be angry over a deliberate 'fuck you' to the fanbase.

>>50711275
Well, yeah.

You don't see Star Wars fans gushing over Jar Jar, or Godfather fans loving the direction the series went. Jason X, baby Poof, Terminator Genisys, Superman 4: The Quest For Peace, World Of Warcraft: Cataclysm, the Harry Potter epilogue, and so on.

End Times is the embarassing and cringeworthy part of the franchise. It will never be liked.

What's wood elf culture like? Never saw much about them other than the vague stuff (They like Athel Loren a bit too much, like to kidnap Bretonnian kids, and like to ride on elk every year and kill whatever gets in the way).

>>50712506
They're essentially proto-Asur, venerating nature and worshiping Isha and Kurnous but are a lot more vengeful than their pre-Chaos elven ancestors. They want nothing to do with their Asur and Druchii kin as they have turned their backs on their heritage. Mix in a quasi-alliance/trade partnership with the Bretonnians and you have a culture that would wish to be left alone if they could, but still take an active role in diverting threats away from them before they fully materalize.

>>50712506
I haven't read the Orion book, but Avelorn is supposed to be as Wood Elf as the High Elves get and the entire kingdom is one giant forest. There's structures throughout it, but almost everyone is nomadic. Courts follow the nobility and Everqueen as they wander on foot and basically every copse is a great hall. Citizenry just pitch tents and harvest or perform wherever, hoping to attract noble attentions. Soldiers are on one permanent patrol. Giant trees make shelters, and the whole place is like a Russian nudist colony.

I imagine Athel Loren is much less pleasant.

>>50711651
Well, there are parts of the End Times I genuinely liked a lot. For example, Nagash coming back, Arkhan the #based kicking ass, beastmen getting marks, Malekith becoming the Pheonix King but not restored to his prettiful self and big dumb team ups were all fun. Of course there were things like khaine magic, unbound armies, the fluff of the skaven book, glotkin, belakor posting, manfred and oh yeah, the fucking planet blowing up all sucked big time.

>>50713033
Gilles and Abhorash being bros is cool too. Apparently Gilles is the only being to have defeated him but spared his (un)life. I'll have to read the Red Duke novel to check on that.

The rest is hot garbage.

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>>50713033
>beastmen getting marks

Beastmen have marks since long, long, long before the End Times. Don't try to confuddle crunch with fluff, here.

There may be good parts to the crunch for the TT, but fluff-wise, it's all an enormous pile of convoluted nonsensical shit that goes out of it's way to actively seek and destroy established concepts and themes in the setting, to the point where it even had to asspull a retcon.

>>50713260
That was a huge issue with 8th edition. So many retcons since their narrative didn't suit the setting, so they changed the setting to suit the narrative.

Anyone has scans of old Warhammer card buildings?

>>50713260
I think I'm gonna use Vader-Viking as Ulfhednar the Destroyer in The Enemy Within campaign.

I am beginning to regret that there's been no recurring villains/characters. I got rid of Adolphus Kuftos, as the module suggested, but now I feel like he would have been a nice character to have pop up again, no longer hunting the adventurers or still bitter over his defeat. (I may yet do so. They cut off his arm and dumped him in the river, so I might pull a dramatic 'dun dun dun' he comes back with a hook hand!)

But other than that, I think Ulfhednar, the Norscan warrior from the end of The Enemy Within, might be good. I might scrap his Mr. Fantastic arms as they're kinda goofy.

>>50713472
I think I own some I can scan later.

I think all the boxed campaign ones are in the OP.

>>50713260
They did not have marks in the 7th edition army book. I know this because I played them and continue to do so in 9th.

The fluff and the crunch go hand in hand for me.

>>50713753
My gratitude will be eternal. I'm going to go full retro, as I bought big chunk of old pieces lately.

>>50710695
>Sigmar is an ascended mortal
I want to think that Sigmar as man died pretty fast in the wastes.
But belief in god Emperor created god Sigmar in the warp.
So they are two different entities.

>>50710736
Power stones are master of magic level ritual, so below high end of what BG can be. On the other side you need 2 magic items to become one.

>>50713827
I have Grudge of Drong, Tears of Isha, and Idol of Gork already scanned but those are already in the OP as well as the others I think. Some of it I uploaded to 1d4 too. I don't know if the 2e Warhammer paper scenery book is in the OP or not.

I have the Empire VS Orcs and Lizardmen VS Brets starter sets, not sure if those have the terrain or not. I got them secondhand and didn't check although Empire VS Lizardmen has no Lizardmen so its less likely to be complete. I know those had plastic components to attach to the paper too, so I obviously can't scan that for you. I'll be able to do that in like seven hours when I get home.

>>50713865
Wouldn't god Sigmar take and absorb the soul of mortal Sigmar?

>>50714020
He'd have his memoried and experiences but your soul would go to rest in Morr's realm, though humans of the time also believed that an especially worthy man would live with Ulric if he lived an honourable life and died a glorious death.

It was also decades after he abdicated and went east until the first worshipers of him declared him a god, which then quickly caught on.

>>50714068
Or his soul have become food for demons as he wandered into chaos wastes.

>>50714110
>>50714068
Time matters little in the Warp, past, present, future, its all one big lump.

>>50714068
But humans believe that Sigmar preserves great Empire heroes. So god Sigmar would preserve mortal Sigmar.

I mean, Morr has no reason to deny Sigmar his favorite Sigmar.

>>50714129
Unless you're Be'lakor. Then you are Warhammer Flowey, linear time with timeline resets so you can savescum reality.

>>50714129
Time still matters in the physical realm, which the Realm of Chaos has to interact with on a limited scale. Otherwise you'd have crazy shit like Nurgle's power growing from plagues that haven't happened yet, or a Slaanesh that has eclipsed his brothers before any change took place in the real world.

The actions of mortals, both conscious and unconscious, have to occur in the mortal realm first to have an effect in the Realm of Chaos. When you're there then time has no meaning. It's why gods and daemons exist and appear as they do. In the Realm of Chaos you die but come back whenever, but in the real world you're gone for a hundred years and a day. The two realms don't mesh.

>>50714334
Actually, Warp beings can change time in reality. Like mister Belly-kun who reset the timeline multiple times to ensure his son Archaon continues on his path as Everchosen.

Then there was a time where Be'lakor to show how death and time is a joke to him, summons a the same Skaven abomination from the present, future, and the past.

>>50714557
But as previously mentioned the ET asspulls are there to push their narrative foreward at the expense of the settings rules that have been previously established. If you condone stuff like that then you may as well call this Warcraft which makes up stuff on the spot because the writers thought it was cool.

Break the rules and what's the point in having them in the first place? He didn't have those powers when he was the Dark Master or possessed an Everchosen only to find he couldn't do anything lasting with the body, those time powers sure would have helped a lot.

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>>50714642
Even Warcraft isn't that bad. ET and AoS is capeshit.

Multiversity, Crisis On Infinite Earths, Infinity Crisis, Secret Wars.

>>50713801
>The fluff and the crunch go hand in hand for me.

Then the entirety of the fluff exists at one moment, is gone the next, and then parts of it is filled in with other stuff yet another moment, only it covers different things?

Fuck that. No wonder you're OK with the End Times; to you, that's all the fluff there is, I guess.

>>50714642
>Break the rules and what's the point in having them in the first place? He didn't have those powers when he was the Dark Master or possessed an Everchosen only to find he couldn't do anything lasting with the body, those time powers sure would have helped a lot.

That's because Tzeentch and the other Chaos Gods stripped him of those powers and condemned him to mindless suffering as the spirit of pure Chaos Undivided. Be'lakor had to drag himself out of madness and regain himself bit by bit and gradually regain his powers across the ages.

>>50714723
Also the Archaon novels predate the End Times by a year or two.

>>50714334
The Warp and the Realm of Chaos expressly do not have linear time, and as you say, the two realms don't mesh. Time doesn't make any sense in there, and it is entirely possible for chaos entities to reach back or forward in time.

First thing you need to do is to stop thinking of of the gods as individuals. In the warp, some manner of concept representing Nurgle exists concurrently with the entirety of the infinite timeline of realspace. It is entirely possible that he does gain strength from plagues that haven't happened yet. In fact, the mistake here is probably assuming that he is gaining strength from plagues at any given point, suggesting that he was weaker "before" than he will be "tomorrow".

The only relevance of this is in Nurgle and the concepts he represent's interaction with the real world. And in the real world, there's absolutely linear time. Think of it instead like this; plagues would increase the total power of Nurgle within the real world at any given moment, because the concepts that embody him is strengthened. The "real" Nurgle, within the Realm of Chaos, doesn't change. Only the collective consciousness that embodies him and reflects within the infinite warp. Thus making "him" stronger in what we would interpret as "the now".

>>50714723
>>50714744
Also-Also...

if I recall correctly when Be'lakor, who was still formless and haven't regained his body yet, possessed one of the Everchosen, he found out that this mortal body cannot sustain itself without a regular intake of warpstone. This made going to Albion and getting the Crown of Domination impossible. And thus was born the Shadowlord who spent his time manipulating the cult of the possessed into gathering warpstone for him. Be'lakor enjoyed his "freedom" until he realized it wasn't freedom at all! It was another form of imprisonment. So he destroyed the body in a fit of rage. In old fluff, he was cast into the Warp as a mindless spirit. New canon from G&F series diverged from the old canon by having a now bodiless formulate a plan to restore a potion of his original body as well as levitating the city to act as his DOOM fortress. The plan partially worked with him regaining his freedom from city and some of his old power but alas no flooting warpstone city. Fucking dwarf and his human pet.

>>50714744
That's still 8th edition, the beginning of all the retcons to come like Malekith during the Sundering. That also had the same problem of changing the setting because it wouldn't allow their story to take place based on its rules. 8th edition was the framework and ET was the execution of the elements they jammed in.

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>>50714696
Not exactly. I just incorporate the fluff I like and keep the other stuff in consideration. Kind of like how most people consume warhammer/40k fluff in general.

>>50714855
Except then the lore mentions how a present plague made Nurgle more powerful, and how because there is a lack of wars going on Tzeentch gets more in control of mortals. Slaanesh, single entity, gets angry because he lost a war, past tense. Slaanesh makes a cup for Khorne, who smashes it and rebuilds it because he can't accept being inferior to Slaanesh in any way.
These could work as metaphors and mortal explanations like in Glorantha, or as anthropomorphic personifications of things that would exist anyway like Terry Pratchett or Niel Gamon works, but the lore of Warhammer has always portrayed it as both. They even ripoff Moorcock, without the infinite cycle or assured self-destruction.

It tries to have its cake and eat it too in every wag, and that doesn't work. Its fine for their wars against each other to happen outside of time, but they are clearly also bound by linear time and have their own personalities.

>>50714898
>Bel was Shadowlord

Wew lad, is there any novel that deals with Mordheim fluff in detail?

Graphic novel and rulebook are quite limited.

>>50715210
G&F : City of the Damned.

And Be'lakor being the Shadowlord was revealed a long ling time ago.

>>50715210
The only results of Mordheim are mentioned in army books.

Vampires won because Vlad got all the warpstone he needed to begin his war on the Empire, everyone else was either wiped out or failed their goals. Mordheim itself was left unpopulated and in such a ruined state that it can't even be said to have standing buildings, just rubble that was never rebuilt into anything.

>>50715264
I think that Magnus The Pious had it levelled and eridicated from imperial documents.

>>50707550
If you really think you need nobility to make it, try making sure they can get the attention of some nobles, or perhaps damsels, that might elevate their social status a bit, even if they don't outright make them nobles.

I think there is such thing as a middle class in Bretonnia, you're just more likely to see it in urban areas, and they'll have to work hard for it.

>>50715569
Brets do have merchants.

>>50715615
True, but they're probably a part of medieval-style guilds or something - no large middle class of individual tradespeople, with actual political power, like in the Empire.

>>50716455
They're smaller and usually unconnected, the most travelled of which are the Wall Wardens. They meet in secret, but it's mostly an excuse to gather together, get drunk and shit talk about their lords.

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>>50717158
Picture related.

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>finally want to get into miniatures
>have been reading warhammer fantasy stuff for a while now
>fantasy way more interesting to me than 40K
>fantasy is kill now at my local GW
>everyone talks shit/doesnt play AoS
>everyone there plays 40K
Send help

>>50706232
I feel you man. I played during 7th at my FLGS. It was only me and a handful of other people. Game is totally dead here now. I would really consider driving ~5 hours for a game filled day/weekend instead of forcing myself to play age every other week just for the sake of doing something with my ogres

>>50717815
Where about do you live?

>>50717913
Northwest Ohio
Toledo to be precise while I'm finishing school

>>50715615
>>50716455
Bretonnian guilds - the ones that do exist - are OBSCENELY powerful. One of them imports and owns most of the cannon in the nation.

>>50717937
Ah, shame. Is there no website or whatever to post that you're looking for games? Or other FLGS?

>>50718128
I mean I found an AoS facebook page. (no thanks) and whfb I could try another forum or something. I tried asking the guys who play at this place called "the gameroom" nicknamed the shameroom because. They're all really degenerate. Like there are hobbyists.

Then there's like deplorable stereotypical neckbeards. And it's filled with em. I asked them one day when they were unpacking models if anyone played fantasy and they laughed. Then proceeded to talk mad shit.

>>50718231
It's probably for the best. Anyone who can't restrain themselves from being a turd in real life about their/your hobby isn't something that's worth playing with. Hopefully you find a group, or even just one or two people, at some point.

>>50718464
Thanks anon. Any idea where to start for minis? Do I have to find backk alley sites? Also is 8th the most common played?

>>50717815
Are you me?

>>50717937
Illinois here man, that's not too far

>>50718477
Check sites for 3rd party miniatures, or ebay for people selling their armies. You can still get a great deal of the Warhammer line from GW, just not Bretonnia and Tomb Kings, and a few things here or there like Empire Great Cannon. There's some Chinaman who makes models but I don't know how to contact him about it.

Also, it's hard to say what edition is most played since the game was killed in 8th, so any group worth their salt either house rules their preferred edition or chooses the one they liked best. For me that'd be 7th edition.

>>50718529
I don't think so unless parallel universe shit going on. MODS

>>50718543
Where abouts, still gotta cross boring ass indiana

I have a question. I played OK in 7th edition before the behemoths and cavalry, were they released durin 7th or 8th?

>>50718529
I don't think so unless parallel universe shit going on. MODS
Also I hope you don't have to suffer in fucking NuDetroit

>>50718543
Where abouts, still gotta cross boring ass indiana

>>50718568
8th. They got a book in 6th and another in 8th.

>>50718564
Same person, capital area. Around Springfield
Indiana is kind of thin, I've driven through it a handful of times.

>>50718552
I can? Their website only has AoS shit unless I'm blind. Can you use AoS models? Is it all the same shit rebranded? Those start collecting sets look useful but not if I can't use them for the superior game

>>50718579
Fuck. Wanted to stick with 7th but got a behemoth sprue for painting an ice wind assault box

>>50718592
Well if I had a better vehicle that could drive distances I'd meet ya half way or something to show me the ropes/help me get into it all. Minis Virgin here

Talking about it all is so exciting

>>50718623
Same boat here. If I put all my miniatures in my car they would be worth more than the car. I just feel like fantasy players have been pushed underground by GW for so long that the few people still playing are the old guys with their close gamin group playing in their basements. If you didn't establish a group at the right time you're really left out.

>>50718753
Damn. That's crazy. Like I said I could cave and play AoS with someone probably. Or succumb to 40k. Feels bad my dude

>>50692711
I'm making my Wood Elves with no metal of any kind. Everything is either bone, wood, or leather.

In retrospect I think I basically made Bosmer, but I'm okay with that.

>>50718805
I had been playing sigmar a couple times a month just because of sunken cost and to be able to play something. In my opinion the rules aren't complete shit, just some armies can't compete with others it's like Rock Paper Scissors. I loved the game for the lore and all that is gone now, yet everyone still raves about total war

>>50706232

Damn anon, right in the feels.

You need to give them a hook. Get them over one day for something unrelated then bring it up and use super simplified rules.

Getting them over the first hurdle is always the hardest part.

>>50718975
I've been playing that game like a fiend. It was the easiest/cost effective (even with the mega amount of dlc they're. Fucking us with) for me to get like a living breathing example of fantasy. I was thinking about even just getting a start collecting set for AoS to ease me into everything and buy all my materials/tools so down the road I wouldn't have to respend on tools etc.

Was thinking of lizard men because they're very different from human models and cna be painted with lots of color. Meh we'll see post xmas. You have a scene of AoS players out there?

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>>50709376
Nothing to explain, just get in.

>>50719046

When a Leman Russ and a steam tank have kids.

>>50719036
Not sure if you mean total war as easy and cost effective or sigmar. They both are pretty cheap compared to traditional fantasy. Haven't gotten to play total war yet, lizardmen are awesome to paint. I got a unit of the Warriors years ago just because I wanted to paint them. Really you can't go wrong with any of GW models though say what you want about them. You can dislike the current style they are going in but they still do and always have made the best models in my opinion. If you learn basic painting techniques and color theory they models really almost paint themselves.

>>50719036
Also yes, there used to be not very many people who played fantasy, at least when I played, though I had moved out of the area for a while. Nowadays there are probably like 10 people who play sigmar, not every week but that's better than when I was playing fantasy and it was only like three of us. Most of the players are coming from 40k and I feel like when the generals handbook flavor of the month has worn off they will mostly go back where they came from.

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>>50719149
What do you mean? Its pretty textbook design for an Alter Kamerad design Empire steamtank.

Damn provincials.... I bet muskets scare you.

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>>50719187
>>50719241
(Sorry just got home from work)
I meant Total war warhammer. It lets me play with full big armies (not the same as tabletop) and I can play it any time out of the "box".

Yeah AoS looks way more enter friendly but still has building, painting, then maybe finding people to play with. Sounds interesting it's roped some 40k players in but then again that was the point.

>>50715195
>These could work as metaphors and mortal explanations
>It tries to have its cake and eat it too in every wag, and that doesn't work.

I think it actually works fine and I have no idea why it wouldn't.

>but they are clearly also bound by linear time and have their own personalities.
I'm not seeing that at all. Ignoring End Games/Age of Sigmar horseshit, of course. Only mortal perceptions are bound by linear time.

What voices in total war donyounthink. They got right? And which ones just don't fit at all?

Personally I think they nailed the greenskins and bretonnian peasants.

Absolutely hate Archaon and Mannfreds voices. Also, Gelts voice is cool but nothing like what I expected from how he's portrayed in the books

>>50720122
I agree with Greenskins and Bretonnians. Dwarfs are fine too, but the rest are really boring. I was so disappointed to hear that Chaos all sounds essentially the same. Mark of Chaos wasn't the best game, but it did voices much better.

Still hate Empire with British accents.

>>50718596
AoS is the same models packaged with round bases. Only a handful of things are unique to AoS.

See, when Fantasy was kill GW couldn't just start fresh with it. They need time to squat most of the game, so about 2/3 of Warhammer Fantasy minis are still in production.

>>50720108
Chaos lore often requires a sequence of events, even in old lore.

Slaanesh loses a battle, so he mopes. Masque dances to cheer him up, he curses her to forever dance and feel no other pleasure. So that's why she can only dance. That's linear time, entirely inside the Warp. That's Slaanesh as a singular entity with thoughts and feelings. All in the same supplements saying Slaanesh is a hivemind made of sentient emotions and time isn't a property in the Warp.

>>50720122
I think wurzzag is the greatest VA in that game. Kholek and Archaon are awful. Empire is british???? Skarsnik and greenskins are great. Dwarves are also pretty good. Brettonia is good. Elf is really generic except durthu. Beastmen don't talk enough for me to notice.

But it's been a nice night chatting lads. Thanks for filling me in. Hope to hear from you again/see you around illinois bro

>>50717956
Does that even mean anything for Bretonnia though? They barely use cannons outside of ships.

>>50720013
Yea, if building and painting aren't really your thing but table tops are, I'd definitely try to steer you clear of either. GW is a model company that has done incredibly well for themselves but they are first and foremost a model company. Their models are far better than their games. I think their models are only outshines by their lore (excluding age). If you know for a fact you don't want to paint, play x wing or something that has pre painted stuff

>>50720635
Not a fan of Vlad. Could have been much smoother and still been creepy.

Greenskins are great. Dwarfs are great. Empire was okay-ish, needed thick German. Brets are hilarious. Chaos was going to be shit no matter what, that kind of voice needs to be so incomprehensible it needs subtitles.

>>50721035
No I do! I loved painting 40k figures for some old friends when they got into it. I just mean like. Coming home from work it's easier to sit down and play total war really since I work and study a lot.

I think building and painting and just putting on some music and chatting with people here would be incredibly fun/relaxing. Sorry if I sounded dis interested.

>>50721077
No it's just one here and I read your whole post but only received parts. Getting motivated to paint is hard sometimes.

Finding people to play sigmar shouldn't be hard but it could be. Much easier to find than fantasy players, in my town it's all adults mostly from 40k, in a more populated area you may run into a bunch of spoiledrich kids who are training to be "that guy" the meta is ripe for it.

Do non-nobles have surnames in the Empire?

>>50721193
Word. Thanks for all the knowledge tonight.

Still torn on whether to get Seraphon or Slaves to Darkness. Maybe I'll have a dream tonight to decide for me.

>>50721195
Yes. The Empire is basically early renaissance Germany.

>>50721237
Hey man whatever you decide, lizards I thought were super fun to paint and are one of the armies you can factory style speed paint and still have them look good

>>50721321
Did early renaissance Germany have surnames then?

>>50721392
I don't recall how it was with pesants, but townsfolk did.

Anyway, every poor niggard in the WH Empire has one. Even most mundane bastards are always listed with surnames in the old WHFRP sorucebooks.

>>50717937
Check out the 9th age forum, they have a game finder sub forum

>>50718830
well, Bosmer ARE Fair Folk elves, that with Wild Hunt and stuff

Provided no End Times nor other apocalypses happen, what would Warhammer universe be like fast forward 200 years?

>>50723290
Proto industrial era, magic steam punk.

>>50723312
that's Empire.

what about Greenskins? Elves? Skaven?

>>50723325
Elves wouldn't change much, they've been stable for millennia.

Orcs have no tech base but would seek shooty stuff, lots of slaves to get it poor quality stuff.


Dwarves would either keep up or exceed the empire, leading to a potential for civil unrest as change happens to quickly.

Skaven remain empire on steroids and probably blow themselves up

>>50723290
The only ones who would really be affected are the empire and maybe the skaven. Elves would remain the same, Dwarfs might have a couple inventions that were conceived around the present but only recently got approved. Orcs, beastmen, undead, all would be pretty much the same.

if you're talking less about tech advances and more about how the map will look different, its hard to say. At current, just about every major faction was getting ready to make a big play. Getting rid of the chaos end times means Tomb kings are still going to try their purge, ogres are having a second migration, and greenskins are always gathering for a great WAAAGH. even if none of those things reaches apocalyptic levels, we have no idea just exactly what the ramifications are.

>>50723432
it's been hinted Dwarfs actually use Empire to perfect heir technology and let young inventive engineers blow off some inventive steam. So I reckon Dwarf would have a lot of tech Empire has now, but much more reliable. Almost-guided Helstorm battery, runic steam tanks and great cannons, etc.

>>50711083
>Dwarfs and dragons
Dragons got a very sizeable collection of grudges, collaboration between the two is unlikely to be a thing

>>50711083
>how do Dwarfs react to dragons
"It's a bird! It's a gyrocopter! It's aaaaAAAARGH! SHOLD'VE JOINED THE IRONDRAKES!" *gets incinerated*

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>>50723290
For the Empire at least, I think the path is obvious enough.

The Empire is on the verge of its industrial revolution. I'm not just talking about things like the steam tank - that's crazy da Vinci stuff that actually gets made. I'm talking base use of technology and raw infrastructure.

The Empire has a middle class and high wages (relatively). It has universities and engineering schools. It has newspapers, a postal system and semaphore lines. Its river transport system is extensive and it has canal and lock systems in some places, which would surely become more commonplace.
Hell, if you go by vermintide it has steam cranes and elevators.

Warhammer progress is slow, but I think the next 200 years would be the equivalent of the 19th century for the Empire. Fashion probably stays similar (it hasn't changed since Mordheim at least), but Altdorf probably ends up more like Dickensian London than it already is. Reikland becomes a land of 'dark satanic mills' and coal mines.

Actually you know what. Just imagine this but with more skulls: https://youtu.be/E6NBHx80ovY

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>>50724135
Another important aspect of an imperial industrial revolution and an age of enlightenment type deal; tons, tons, tons of people have died recently.

That's actually a pretty big deal, because it frees up an abundance of resources (or resource availability) for the remaining population, while favouring both artisans and peasants (since their efforts suddenly hold greater value).

What may stifle development is the fact that it's actually really hard to get around The Empire. As in, you can use the roads and everything, but overall, The Empire consists of pockets of civilization within huge forests. That's a problem, because establishing necessary resource gathering and make new roads (or even railways!) may take a long, long time, and be fraught with danger.

The Beastmen are actually a really big issue.

>>50725009
wouldn't industrial revolution do the same it did to UK and most of the rest of western europe - forests get cut down for fuel, land is being used to build factories and grow sheep?

also, what would happen to Bretonnia? they'd still use horses and lances when Empire be packing Mark I tanks?

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>>50725009
Yeah, I don't think the Empire lacks resources exactly, it's just that they're hard to get to.

That said, the numbers given in wfrp seem totally wrong on population compared to the art. Going by the art, cities are huge. More densely populated than the renaissance, more densely populated than the industrial revolution for that matter. Everything is just built on a bigger scale.

>>50725166
No, massive social revolutions and tech diffusions at least. Otherwise conquest by the empire

>>50725228
Pop counts in Sigmars Heirs are seen as households rather than exact numbers


Only way to make sense.

>>50725228
The very presence of magic may hold things back, in much the same way slavery held back things in the ancient world.

Why innovate when you have magic to do shit more efficiently? Takes the wind out if those first inefficient stages of inventions and no motivation to perfect them