Warmachine / Hordes General

>>50686843
fair and balanced

>>50688936
I mean, that's a caster aiming with a unit and a hit from a solo.

2nd for skorne never in PP's heart.

>>50688957
The fact that you can make anybody's defense not matter is pretty terrible when you can tag spells on top of that from anywhere across the board.

>>50688983
It's hardly from anywhere, leaves the caster 12" from the target, does it even work if you kill the target? Plus you're using 14 points that's not benefiting from the spell? I don't think it's that big of a deal on a focus 6 caster.

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>>50688932

This is roughly my Lucant list, but there's some stuff to talk about for it.

The Galvanizers replace the Recip unit, and fills roughly the same role. You lose Shield Wall and an inch of reach for much higher boxes, the benefit of multiple attacks, and the ability to repair themselves.

You can drop them for a full unit of Recips and a Foundry, losing the ADO as well.

In general your goal is to move the Lucant brick forward, using the Cipher to slow down the enemy list, and using the Inverter Watcher threat to make it much harder for them to alpha you.

The goal of your Recip unit is just to get to a flag/zone and just camp the fuck out, being impossible for your opponent to remove.

I'd do with this version because you can pair PA Mom with it and still have the benefit of the Colossal, though that's farther out when you start doing steamrollers.

>>50689101
my only problem with this list is that I'm one steelsoul and three galvanizers down from what it needs, but I do have the other chassis for the Galvanizer prepped.

>>50689135
Steelsouls are very good with Lucant. With WM, defensive strike can be a real problem for some lists, and offensively, MAT8 POW14 WM swings is a huge deal.

As far as the Galvanizer package goes, you can swap it for the Recips like I said, I'd try both, there's merits to each of them. Engima Foundries got nerfed pretty hard in the transition to Mk3, so you're not really seeing them played much, the Recip package is about the only time they're worth it.

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They STILL don't have the fucking themes in Warroom?

Are they incompetent or just idiotic? How many months/weeks did they have to test the theme list?

It's beyond funny now, it's just embarrassing. And they aren't even replying in the forum when people ask.

>>50689101
what about swapping out my OD for a Galvanizer? it keeps the more hitboxes option because the Directive only supplies 3 boxes, and lets me spread my Shield Wall a little farther

>>50689206

>Privateer Press
>testing anything

pick one

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>>50689206
But nobody likes Trolls.

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>>50689245
Directive are your support, they're filling a very different role. You want the Pathfinder, you want the Magical Weapon, and they repair a lot more than the Galvanizer does.

On the other hand, you can swap in some Galvanizers for the Steelsouls, that's a pretty fair trade. Drop the TE for it.

Looking at your list, you could do this.

A Diffuser gives you a bit extra offensive threat with it's gun, and also provides a Watcher target your opponent might suspect. Specifically, I've used it to murder solos that run to contest flags, getting within Lucant's 6", but too far from any warjack to melee with. It's quite the surprise for some opponents who don't know it works for ranged attacks as well.

>>50689335
I'm noticing all of your lists remove the Axiom but not the TEP. Is the Axiom objectively worse, or am I missing something?

>>50689357
It's about you talking about Mother.

I assume you're going to be considering Steamrollers soon, and likely pairing Mom with Dad. Mom absolutely wants a PA in her list, and you want to avoid having it in both lists.

I am less partial to the PA variants of Lucant, but that doesn't mean they're bad at all.

>>50689432
I have 0 idea how steamroller works and I don't think there's a big gathering for it in my area, mostly it's caster assassination and points games. I was mentioning Mom because I'm trying to get her ready as an alternate caster, because the first caster I was able to get ready to use was Dad and I'm not sure if I'm able to play him properly.

>>50689462
Ok, give me a little bit and I'll do a writeup on the merits of PA Lucant vs not.

>U'll never spoo inside a fanny knight vagoo
JUST

>>50689462
Ok, so what the PA provides Lucant is the general benefits of the Colossal(concentration of power, resistance to control style effects in scenario games), and Lucant is also very good at keeping it alive.

The tow cables provide the same sort of denial as they always do, creating a huge no go area for your opponent's heavies he has to concern himself with. However, unlike Mom(who can dominate warjacks away from stuff to make clear drag lanes) or Syntherion(who can use Hot Shot to make the spiker an incredibly powerful gun, and can double dip like crazy with the feat), Lucant doesn't do a whole lot to help it besides Positive Charge. He does, however, make it extremely difficult to kill, which is always a big plus for Colossals. Between his feat for a turn and an Inverter with Watcher, you can make delivering something to the PA extremely difficult, and can usually weather most assault.

You talked before about how you lost half your PA to a Skorne player even under feat. That's honestly great for you, because he blew his load trying to kill it with his own feat, and now you get to have your mechanics repair it back to full functionality, cast Positive Charge on it, and then murder whatever went in in response.

Speaking of which, Positive Charge also super benefits the PA, given that it spreads out from it's entire base, giving a huge area of coverage for that +2/+2.

Of course, any list that can kill the PA is a real problem for you, so you have to be careful. Lucant makes it extremely tough, but not invincible, and as I said, a badly popped feat just means they wait a turn and then kill it anyways.

New player here. Just turn 3 lost against my friend who only slightly newer than I am.
Any tips for some people who are really new?
Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks? My caster is Sorscha 1.
I'm thinking of picking up a Kodiak or Man O War Stormtroopers and a war dog.

I've historically heard infantry are really good in warmachine, but it seems somewhat like Mark 3 has changed that what with the free focus for everybody.

>>50689206
I would not be surprised in the slightest if the team the passed it off to really just don't give a shit. Probably hired a software company then they passed it to a team that didn't care.

>>50690039
One of the first and most important lessons to learn in this game is warcaster placement. Making sure your warcaster is safe every single turn is a huge, huge deal.

I've won a lot of rounds in steamroller tourneys against newer players who play their lists extremely well, but leave their caster open and then die as a result.

>>50690039
>Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks?
Given that the death of your warcaster spells a loss for you, it isn't cheesy at all. It's expected. Generally casters who are high DEF and low ARM IE: Sorscha are meant to play cautiously and avoid direct confrontation. You're hard to hit, but if you're hit, it's GG.

Once you have a grasp of the rules, I would recommend playing scenarios. They generally add a depth to the game that is beyond "kill the other caster", which alleviates the feeling you're playing like a little bitch.

>I've historically heard infantry are really good in warmachine, but it seems somewhat like Mark 3 has changed that what with the free focus for everybody.
Generally, they try to. Most lists will use one or two squads, depending on what they're doing.

http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/

This gives you an idea of what people are playing in tournaments. One of the current Khador jank lists that has effective results is spamming Mad Dogs, no troops whatsoever. Most Khador lists like to use a squad of Rifle Corps, and toss in some rocketeers as attachments.

ded thred 4 ded gaem

>>50690039
>Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks? My caster is Sorscha 1.
Everything that prevents your caster from dying is a good plan.

>>50690039

its pretty bad mannered to hide your caster. stop being a shithead to your friend

>>50690039
>>50691837
I bet you put models base-to-base with flags like a WAAC faggot.

>>50690039
>Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks? My caster is Sorscha 1
As a few others have said, it's not cheesy, it's good play.

The biggest mistake newer players (maybe all players) make is being too aggressive with their caster. Assassination is by far the most common loss condition for newer players. While learning a caster like Sorscha, make a habit of checking every turn if (a) she is screened from line of sight to enemy models at the end of the turn, and (b) keep a couple focus to camp.

You'll still get killed sometimes, but that will go a long way. The LOS screen can be anything, but a couple heavy jacks in B2B is certainly an option.

>>50690039
>Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks?
No anon, you should leave your sudden death loss condition twisting in the wind for your opponent to kill at his leisure.

Let's be frank about this. The point of the conversion policy is that there's a reasonable standard for what constitutes a recognizable, assembled model.

Imagine it was someone else, and they put down a set of models that had the same damage. Would you be able to tell what the models were supposed to be? If you lose all of the recognizable parts on a multi-option model without replacing them, the answer is going to be that you can't tell what it is any more.

At an event, you're probably going to get an "act of God" exemption if you have a few models that need repairs and you're willing to make the models as recognizable as possible. As in, sticking a name tag and a paper sword on a model, if you have to.

But there's a matter of basic respect, for yourself and for your models and for the other player, involved here. If you respect yourself and your models, you're going to fix them. No one is going to want to watch your once-assembled models slowly crumble into ruin.

Do you agree

>>50692670
>The point of the conversion policy is that there's a reasonable standard for what constitutes a recognizable, assembled model.
Absolutely, and I think PP's conversion policy is generally faithful to this goal.

Infinitely more important is that down on the ground, warmachine TO's understand what the conversion policy is for and apply it reasonably. This is just from my own experience, but I have never seen or heard (directly) of an actual case of reasonable conversion being rejected, even if it didn't meet all the requirements to the letter.

The conversion policy HAS to exist, because if you don't have a policy, because you have to give the community a basis for discussion, and because there's always that one cheesy, rules-lawyering jackass in any large community who will try to game the system. And it has to be written in a prohibitive fashion, for the same reasons.

But the policy is generally not worth worrying about for 99% of players in 99% of situations. If your conversion is (a) recognizable, and (b) cool (and if it's not cool, why bother?), you're very unlikely to ever have a problem.

Any signs of a pdf for the new troll book?

March release schedule posted:

March 2017 Releases
PIP 1080 Forces of WARMACHINE: Cygnar Softcover
PIP 1081 Forces of WARMACHINE: Cygnar Hardcover
PIP 31122 Captain Allison Jakes (Jakes II) - Cygnar Warcaster
PIP 31123 Brickhouse - Cygnar Heavy Warjack
PIP 41140 Caine's Hellslingers - Cygnar Warcaster Unit
PIP 1094 Forces of HORDES: Legion of Everblight Softcover
PIP 1095 Forces of HORDES: Legion of Everblight Hardcover
PIP 73105 Kallus Devastation of Everblight - Legion Warlock
PIP 73106 Fyanna, Torment of Everblight - Legion Warlock
PIP 73102 Azrael - Legion Warbeast
PIP NQ 71 No Quarter Magazine #71

No Revelator :(

>>50696752
Where is Zaadesh2? Where is the Hurricane?

>>50696836
"April or later" is the best I can do.

Assuming the pattern holds, Zaadesh2 will drop with a new caster and a character beast when the Skorne book does. The Gargossals seem to drop randomly, and we haven't even seen a render of the Revelator or Hurricane, so who knows when they'll drop.

>>50696836
fuck you, fuck Cygnar, we want the Revelator

>>50697253
Tell me who's that writing

>>50697385
SKREEONK

I love how we can't get themes and models released in War Room on time, but we can get spooky tumblr posts and deeply layered ARGs about the new pumpkinhead men faction

I really need to stop looking at the cards in other factions. Man o Wars are so fucking good compared to Cataphracts. Cheaper per model, higher ARM, more consistent damage output, and they have a fucking gun to round it off because hell why not? Even their UA is cheaper. Don't even get me started on how disgusting Iron Fang Pikemen are.

>>50697470
That's not how the song goes, but I'll take it.

>>50688736
What are the chances of this guy being good enough to usurp Sylys?

I guess if he actually has Guard Dog he'll see play with Thyron.

>>50697646
Different people doing it, and the people working on War Room have proven themselves to be morons.

The delay with War Room is probably one of the following:

- War Room is a dead contract for the company and they're doing crunch for something that matters more towards their bottom line and just giving PP excuses and will get to it when making PP happy is high enough priority compared to whatever is actually actively bringing in revenue.

- The guy who manages the rebuilds (either of the data or the app for iOS/Android) is sick/on vacation/fired/quit in disgust and they're either waiting for him to get back or its taken them this long to figure out exactly how he made it work.

- The new themes have added complexity (specifically, that they contain models that count both for free models and can be taken as free models) and they don't have it working yet because it's a deceptively difficult problem to solve Although while it's harder than it seems to solve, it's still something that you should be able to put a recent graduate on and have a solution in a day.

I'd be surprised if it's *not* one of these, but it any case, they never should have been chosen to do War Room 2, and whoever chose them at PP should be fired for picking them.

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

>>50698712
>they never should have been chosen to do War Room 2
Here's why they were: They had it 90% finished when the need arose. Because it really is just a polished Warroom1.

>>50700139
>it really is just a polished Warroom1
Jesus fuck how bad was War Room 1?

>>50700429
Pretty much like the current one, just a bit slower and with more crashes.

>>50700429

You clicked the icon. It didn't work.

>>50698712

Good analysis--specifically the 'counts towards a free model and can be taken as a free model'

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What are you working on, Anon-kun?

>>50697890
Oddly enough, this was the exact opposite in Mk 2. Not to say it's fair, just that PP is incapable of making everything good for some reason.

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any other cryx players hoping for that character pistol wraith? what kind of abilities do you think he would have?

>>50697646
Because there's no way that there are people working on the tumblr thing who don't work on War Room too, right? Moron.

>>50703835
I don't think that it's going to happen. Caine interrupted the soul stealing and it seemed like it made it to Urcaen. Plus they recovered the body and gave it a sanctified burial, if I recall correctly.

>>50705090

shame, I haven't read the mark of Cain yet just some chatter from my FLGS but I thought the idea was pretty boss.

Are there any good facebook groups for unloading Warhmachine minis? I'm looking to get rid of my collection (roughly $1000 MSRP of models, probably going to try and sell it for $600 or so) to get some money.

>>50706334
Best bet is either your local community or the faction communities.

>>50706343

Great, thank you!

>>50706334
Barter town is okay, but a little faster than selling on ebay. Especially if you are willing to trade models for models in some cases.

>>50702070
Because they can't leave good shit alone and are stubborn to insure that the fix the community wants is never what it gets.

>>50698077
"Skreeonk the Revelator" has a nice ring to it. Sounds like a title for a Tom Waits song.

>>50706334
Bartertown works, as are any of the faction facebook groups.

I've also passed along a ton of minis on ebay over the years, though if you're going that route, you probably want to cut your collection into four or five lots of related models. People on ebay are more often looking to expand their collections than start fresh, so very big sets take a long time to sell.

>>50708457
poor John

>>50703835
Silly anon, you know Cryx can't have nice things this edition.

We must pay for the amount of whining our faction caused in MK2.

>>50708457
This clearly calls for the collecting of WMH lore in call-and-response blues style.

>>50700139
And at this point in the cycle, that's no longer an excuse.

They knew WR1 was shit, they knew WR2 was built on the same shitty foundation.

In retrospect, perhaps it's a bit harsh to say whoever okayed them for WR2 should have been fired -- but now they're how far behind conflictchamber.com in just getting the themes out? I'm not sure how much you can blame Tinkerhouse at this point because PP already knew they were shit and went with them anyway, so now when you have to explain why the guys you're paying money are getting shown up by a random guy on the internet, well, you shouldn't be making contracting decisions for developing software.

>>50709920
And given that Lane hasn't posted in over a week and the grumbling thread is being answered by a PP employee, I'm betting the problem is contractual and not technical. As a contractor in the dev industry you listen first to whoever is paying your mortgage (i.e., the reliable partner you can count on for long-term revenue), and given the intensity of work from Tinkerhouse, I don't think PP is paying their mortgage at the moment.

But I'm just an outsider looking in. Looking in and seeing a lot of the same bullshit that people who are bad at business get themselves into, though.

So, anyone know the latest with Nyssor? Last I heard the Iosans had him and Goreshade was getting? Like, what's up with him?

>>50709920
conflictchamber was literally just a case of, "Oh, that's the theme? Well let me just spend 20 minutes putting it in the website". Remember kids, never outsource your work to a company you don't know.

>>50710833
I think thats more because ConflictAnon is a saint, than PP being shit.

>>50711142
Not really, it's not exactly rocket science.

>>50711142
You literally just attach a property to anything that counts towards the points for your theme, then another theme to the things you get for free. For the Farrow one, you'd just add up your farrow units/siege engines, divide by 20, truncate the remainder, and that's how many solos you get for free. Then it just looks at all solos with the theme property in your list, and subtracts X highest costs, where X is the result of the earlier calculation. This isn't rocket science, it honestly is rudimentary computer science.

Conflictanon here.

>>50711142
I'm not a saint, I've even been known to run Amon jackspam. Haven't in a while, though.

>>50711524
It's clearly not.

>>50711723
But it's a bit more complex than that. The new lists all have models that are both on the "you get free models for taking these" list *and* the "you get these models for free" list. Finding the optimal solution for a given list (in the general case) ends up mapping to the knapsack problem (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapsack_problem), which is something that's actively researched in computer science.

That said, the n is low enough that a naive implementation is going to be fast enough to use in WR2 (and Conflict Chamber actually uses a greedy version of the algorithm which isn't guaranteed to produce a correct solution for all versions of the problem, but that I *think* is correct for the datasets used in Thornfall/Band/Dhunian; I'll improve this if further themes create situations where it matters, but it's likely they won't).

I wouldn't call it rudimentary, but it's something that you should be able to do easily around the time you're halfway through a CS degree, in large part because the difficult part is identifying that it's a version of the knapsack problem. I mean, I used to teach mostly second-year CS students, and I'd expect my top students to be able to solve it easily, and the rest to need help *identifying* the underlying problem, but not so much implementing it.

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Hey Guys!

I'm looking for a list of online shops for Warmachine/Hordes accessories.

Templates, SR Zones, Widgets, Tokens, everything !

Everytime I search for good accessories I find a new store with great stuff and I'm tired of missing the better ones!

Does such a list exist on the webs somewhere?

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>>50713293
>frozenforge
Oh shit some of this stuff is sweet as fuck.

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-12-15-2016

>>50714015
Protectorate gets one fucking change? Well at least the High Reclaimer will get his nerf and the shit like Bastions and Deliverers will stay on the shelf. Goddamnit

>>50714015
>1 change to Protectorate
Hello darkness, my old friend..

>>50714088
>>50714126
They're probably being very careful with factions that are ~90% fine like Protectorate.

>>50714015
>Poltergeist is stupid on Drago
>"no it isn't, also Drago has all this shit that is objectivly worse than a jack 2pts cheaper than him so he's good"

I'm worried.

>>50714154
I agree Protectorate is in a decent place. I was sort of hoping that we'd slightly elevate the dregs (Deliverers, Bastions) to be a little closer to playable.

>>50714015
>In the end, what we created [Skorne] was balanced overall
They lost it. They fucking lost it. There is no hope.

>>50688736
Been a few months since i poked my head in here, did they fix the horrible balance problems from the edition change or are cryx and skorne still smoldering crater's while khador assblasts everyone

>>50714238
January

>>50714209
>Do you acknowledge there is currently a gap between WARMACHINE and HORDES system balance?
>No.
Ffs, PP. Get your shit together. I can't tell whether they don't want to admit mistakes or they have no idea what they are doing. If the enire community, which has active experience, tells you something, you better listen.

>>50714270
what did he mean by this?

>>50714274
I'm a PG and a TO for 64+ players events for 3 years.
I don't see how Warmachine is stronger than Hordes ATM. And I'm 100% with W. Shick when he says only some specific armies in Warmachine are stronger than Hordes, and vice versa.

Take out the few stupid lists in the game right now (Karchev, Haley2, Ossyan, WW, Madrak2) and Hordes factions are just as fine as the other kids.

>>50714088
See >>50714154

Protectorate might have the widest range of playable stuff right now. We've got some underperforming stuff, but I also play Circle and Cygnar, and both factions have more shelf-dwellers.

I bet Amon takes the business end of the nerfbat in the July errata, though, as he'll be the most prominent spam-artist and Choir is going to make Protectorate play well into the shooty-and-getting-shootier meta.

>>50714348
No way. There are exactly 0 people complaining about Amon. Compare that to Kharchev or Ossrum

>>50714429
Agreed. The only nerf PoM needs right now is the Leader->Officer CMD trick of High Reclaimer's feat.

>>50714348
Yeah but they said they were going to look at the top and bottom 5% of each faction. Sure some factions have more shelf dwellers, I'd point out that Protectorate gained a few new ones in addition to the previous ones that didn't get fixed. One change means they said, nah they're fine as long as we nerf HR

>>50714336
How weird that the vast majority of Hordes' players feel like fighting against Cygnar/Khador/Menoth/Ret, and not just fotm cheese but more all-around lists is an uphill battle, but we don't see Warmachine players saying the same for Hordes.

>>50714535

Are you kidding? I'm getting my shit pushed in on a bi-weekly basis by Baldur's Box of Fucking Rocks as PoM.

Like, I get that Skorne got fucked by MkIII (I'm a fan of Skorne and I couldn't get rid of them fast enough) but I wouldn't say that Hordes isn't completely balanced against WM.

>>50714685
I wouldn't even blame the powerup. It's just all the tweaks added up results in a situation where lists that simply take what is good, not even skewing or relying on some ballbusting strategy, will end up being significantly better on warmachine side. The good models of each niche (melee infantry, ranged beasts/jacks, best/jack support solos, etc.) are simply better point for point. Which makes it seem like the entirety of hordes is either slightly underperforming or overcosted. Not a lot, like 15%.

>>50714015
>In the end, what we created (Skorne) was balanced overall
Skorne is on no level balanced.

>At this point in time we do not believe that Spell Slave needs to be fixed
I'm sorry but Aptimus Marketh can't cast a single spell from half of the warlocks in Skorne, and the spells he CAN cast are single target nukes that no one ever casts because they're worthless.

>>50714274
Learn to read faggot. The SYSTEMS are balanced. The problem is jacks got buffed way too much. The SYSTEMS are fine.

>Is there a possibility of re-balancing the cost of Khadoran heavy warjacks?
>Yes.
Well thank fucking Christ.

>>50714429
Just wait. He dodges the first round of complaints because he's not the worst offender, but once he does it best, the people bitching about Karchev will move over to Amon.

>>50714491
As a Protectorate player, I'm vastly more affected by Haley2, Wurmwood and such being overpowered than Bastions being underpowered. But I play in a pretty competitive meta, so my view may be biased towards the types of games that show up as a result.

But yeah, with HR being fixed we're fine. Even our bad stuff (which is mostly relegated to medium-based infantry and light warjacks) are bad because they suffer from the same problems models of their type have across the whole game.

I'm just happy the stuff we have that's honestly overpowered (Amon and Redeemers) didn't get whacked.

>>50714685
Eh, I think a lot of it comes down to Hordes playstyle has changed significantly and it's taking a while for everything to adapt.

I switched from Circle to PoM as my main faction (playing both in Mk2) in large part because Circle got less fun to play and PoM got more fun to play. I may switch back for Kaya3, though.

>>50714336
>I don't see how Warmachine is stronger than Hordes ATM
Compare 12 point heavy jacks to 12 point heavy beasts. Juggernaut v Rhinodon, anyone? Incase you didn't know, the Juggernaut's damage is 2d6+2 with his ice axe, and the Rhinodon is 2d6-6. They both need a 4 to hit. They're the same speed. Still don't see how Warmachine is stronger?

>>50714955
I think that really argues to "Warmachine has more options with cheap heavies", because no one plays Hordes cheap heavies.

Hordes "standard-cost" heavies are as good as Warmachine "standard-cost" heavies.

Yeah it's a problem and it sucks, but at least for the current round of errata (which look to be focused at the top as opposed to the bottom), look at what actually sees table time.

>>50714950
>the people bitching about Karchev will move over to Amon.

Replying to myself, but anyway.

To put it another way, I think Amon is a low-top-ten caster. At least, I can think of six casters I think are clearly better and a few more that are arguable. The clearly better casters are probably all getting nerfed in the errata, and the arguable ones are going to lose some power due to some of their units getting nerfed.

Once all is said and done, Amon is going to be a top caster and one of the most complained about, so he'll probably get roughed up in July.

>>50714015
>low key confirming coc still isn't getting any new models

I didn't really expect anything different but it was nice to hope

>>50714903
The systems are balanced. But bests/jacks aren't the only unbalanced models. Compare iron fang pikemen, dawnguard sentinels, nihilators and fennblades. All are premiere melee single wound 10-mans in their factions, but two of them are clearly either overcosted or in need of +1 to all stats.

>>50715003
THREE

YEARS

OF

TESTING

>>50715050
>SPD7 MAT8 PS13 DEF14 ARM14 Nihilators
I could get used to that.

>>50715051
You believed that?

At least today's Insider detailing Pagani shoving 26 Reptile Hounds up someone's ass tells us they're going to get more perspective about the game.

>>50715003
I don't think taking one of the best costed "cheap" warmachine heavy (Jugger) against the worse heavy of the worse faction of the intire game (skorne) is a fair comparison...

Take the new rhinodon including its errataS, or the Titans we were promised for january, and you shall be a tidbit less salty.

>>50715072
That would make them on par with ifp and sentinels. How hilarious it sounds only highlights the issue.

Assuming the game will become balanced at some point in the future, what would be the optimal power-level to keep it on? 'Fun-sized' by dragging everyone down to skorne/cryx? Middle of the barrel but tweaking everything to round it about menoth's level? Or powercreep everything into Khador/Ret extravagantza?

>>50715181
I believe PP is trying their hardest to not swing the balance too hard with their erratas. They're going step by step.
Seems legit to me.

>>50700429
>How bad was War Room 1
- It would crash on start for newer model phones and Android OSes.

- Assuming you got it to start, the "play a game" system was so unreliable that TOs would explicitly tell you to NOT use it to track damage, because it would crash.

- Referencing rules was slow (assuming it didn't crash).

- You were expected to (((pay))) to use it.

Granted, you have to pay to use it, but it actually works. Which is why people praise it, even though it's really just "it works now" instead of "it crashes".

War Room has been, and will always be, a $70 digital reference for the current edition's rules. Which, if you think about it like that, it functions perfectly well, and you'd be expected to pay around $70 for just your side's rule book and maybe a command book. That you get all the rules (well, when it gets updated :^) ) for that price is nice, and the reference works just fine.

>but muh Unity
Honestly I don't know shit about app programming. But the app does what I want it to (on-demand rules references) and has a nifty list-builder and damage tracking function.

>>50709920
>>50710833
PP is shit.

All you have to do is look at them sourcing out Warmachine: Tactics to that indie dev company WhiteMoon Dreams, and see how shitty that game turned out.

Privateer Press is a Seattle-based company with progressive liberal employees. They prefer trying to invest money in getting indie companies their first big ticket than a product that actually works.

>>50715335
All you need to know about muh Unity is that War Room is a calculator that eats your battery in 2-3 hours.

>>50715369
Is this really a problem in the modern world?

Quickcharging lets you charge your phone from 0% to 100% in about an hour now, and USB/USB-C is an industrial standard if you don't have an Apple product.

I don't know why people spout this as a detriment; are you playing Warmachine in the mountains with no outlet?

>>50715450
>I don't know why people spout this as a detriment
Because it straight up is one? Go play a 4 round Steamroller using only War Room for cards and damage tracking. It won't last 2.

>But you can buy external batteries!
Do they come free with War Room?

>>50715450
I'm often playing it for several hours in a stretch at a tournament.

And there's literally no reason for it to drain battery like it does.

Go home Lane.

>>50715450
When you get into the 5-6 round events and you're trying to use anything but a dedicated tablet for it, yea, it's an issue.

>>50715181
Everything Menoth level would be optimal, I'd say.

>>50715450
>Is this really a problem in the modern world?
Okay, let's visit metaphore-ville. Warroom is the equivalent of an xml-viewer/editor programmed in Unity. That's like spending 100000$ on a gilded nail clipper to unscrew a screw with.

I'm quitting. They won't ever fix Skorne.

>>50717177

Bye

>>50717177
Can I purchase your models please?

I can be reached at
[email protected]

So i just got into this game as Cryx!
I have Denegra1, a Defiler, 2 Deathrippers and a Leviathan, plus a Warwitch Siren and a squad of Satyxis Raiders. Where to expand from here? Slayers look good because they are apparently cheap basic heavy jacks that do jack things jacks should do. Is Nightmare or Barathrum worthwhile? They seem pretty cool. What about those zombie pirates are they good?

In general what are the essentials i am missing?

>>50717446

Nightmare is pretty good with Denny, Barathrum is an extremely efficient piece for his point cost.

If you're looking at what's good in Cryx then for units your next purchase should be Satyxis Raiders. Yes another one. If you don't want another then Carrion Thralls or Soul Hunters. Withershadow Combine is good. Inflictor is good.

They are giving Cryx a bump in the January errata, so that will influence what is deemed "essential" for the faction as well.

>>50715181

Menoth is a good middle ground, I think. Of course, what will actually happen is they'll get 2-3 factions to that point in the same errata they nerf Menoth into the ground and buff Ret even more. Cygnar will remain unchanged.

>>50715108
>Pagani wrecking the play testers

I don't think he's gonna stay employed very long if he keeps that up in PP's safe space think thank.

>>50717677
So... don't get the funtime revenants?

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>PP states that the top and bottom 5% of each faction will be reviewed for erratas
>Today lists one change for Menoth
>Menoth player says what's up with that?
>PP responds, just because we're looking at the top and bottom 5% doesn't mean we'll be making any changes to any of them

Well, big fucking deal. I'd hope you would always be looking at the top/bottom 5% of it and if you don't intend to address them with an errata, why even mention it?

And what the fuck is up with WarRoom? It's a goddamn desert of information in that forum. How many days of theme lists been out?

Do they test ANYTHING? Off to Infinity if this Errata isn't worth a shit.

>>50717936

Pass for now, little buddy

>>50718378

>PP says they will look at top and bottom 5%
>PP says they did and made changes they felt were appropriate

Sorry what's the problem other than your sense of entitlement? I know people have been disgruntled with PP since mk3 release but Jesus this is a fucking stretch.

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>>50718510
>sense of entitlement

Shick is that you?

Sense of entitlement? You like to parrot that from the PP forums, like it's some fucking magic mantra?

It's not a sense of entitlement. I want to pay a good, balanced game. If they don't fix the game, then I won't play it. It's their buck to lose, not my sense of entitlement.

They should be 'happy' people are complaining. That's their customers saying, "Hey I really want to like your fucking game, fix this shit".

It's better than "Oh, Errata you say? I'm sorry I play Infinity now."

>>50718510
It's not really entitlement when that's what they said they were changing lol. One change, predicted to be a nerf, is shitty news.

>>50719120

They never said they were changing the top and bottom 5% of each faction. They said they were going to look at the 5%s of each faction, so that's just misinterpreted by people and then they get mad about something PP never promised.

>>50719692
Yeah, but Deliverers and Bastions.

>>50719917

Deliverers are fine, just because you are spoiled by sunburts and redeemers doesn't make them bad

>>50719942
Im sure Constance "worstmotherfuckingcasterinthegame" Blaize is fine too and we all need to gitgud. Pp can do no wrong afterall.

>>50720081

No, Constance is shit. She was already the worst caster in the game and then they nerfed her going into mk3.

Here's a fun mental exercise for you: how would you buff Deliverers such that people would take them but still also take sunburts?

>Will explains the problem with skorne
>"they are so incredibly balanced and well designed that they aren't fun"

...

>>50720135

Skorne's internal balance is actually pretty good. It's when you factor in the S tier bullshit of other factions is when they start to look REALLY trash.

Will Shick elaborated what he meant on the forums:

>"Maybe I should have you write these for me . Yes what I meant was that nothing in Skorne was broken. It all worked and didn't heavily skew the median. However, that caused it to be unbalanced because a big part of WARMACHINE and HORDES balance is about those outliers and the fun and flavor they add to the overall experience of the game. "

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>>50717446
get the UA for the raiders, she will help keep your firls alive and help them get to the frontlines to so some killing. slayera are alright but their glass cannons and get broken quickly if you don't alpha strike if you can pick them up on the cheap go for it but remember their pretty fragile and I say this as someone who loves their slayers.

blood witches are a cool unit to get as well but there not an auto include if you do get them be sure to get the blood hag. and if you want a in house troop ranged option, we finally got a 3 man gunmage unit that has some neat tricks in the form of the satixs gunslingers.

>>50720189

Skorne's internal balance is not good at all...

>Cataphacts are shit
>Slingers are shit
>Immortals get shit on by sentinels in the exact same role, less stats on everything
>Swordsmen are shit
>Warbeasts in general with a few exceptions are overcosted and/or shit
>Most skorne warlocks suck. Only Z2, Hexy2, Makeda2 and Rasheth do not suck, and out of those makeda2 is by far way more potent than the other 3

Skorne's makeda2 ferox list is so powerful compared to the rest of the faction, and the faction is full of absolute garbage like arcuarii and incindarii that saying skorne's internal balance is pretty good is laughable.

Externally nothing is broken because its all underpowered except Makeda with ferox which if it ever gets a list pair will let skorne play tournaments on life support where two casters are viable as a pair and everything else is shit

>>50720200
So basically everyone wants me to run some kind of Satyxis theme list, even though Satyxis are perhaps the least interesting part of Cryx?

>>50714173
Deliverers will get UA and start being viable with that.

>>50720396

Do you want to run what is good, or do you want to run what you want to play? No one is stopping you from playing Revenant Crew, at your level it really doesn't matter. Sorry that Satyxis don't interest you, but everyone here has given it to you straight.

>>50720444
To me its just really surprising the undead faction isn't really... undead?
Carrion Thralls were suggested i guess, but i figured with all the support revenants and banes would have a good place, or one of the many types of thralls that can replace/increase their number.

>>50720780
Recursion took a huge hit in Mk3.

But Cryx is just as much the pirate faction as they are the undead faction.

>>50720807
Forgive me but considering only 2 out of 12 warcasters are pirate related and mercenaries has more pirates it didn't seem like anything but a minor flavor to me.

>>50720200
Back to the subject of slayers, what attracted me to them is they seem waaay less costly than other jacks and they have lots of options thanks to open fist/hard head.

Barathrum seems similar, his cost is pretty crazy low but he gets some nifty rules slayers do not.

>>50720901

Cryx is a nautical faction, the Black Fleet is the face of their nation. The majority of people in the Iron Kindgoms strictly think of Cryx as raiding pirates. A lot of Cryx is Black Fleet/pirate related.

>Skarre1/2, Terminus, Witch Coven, Aiakos
>Kraken, Crabjacks
>Revenant Crew, Black Banes, Satyxis, Black Ogrun

The pirate related junk is easily the most prevalent theme in the faction, Banes and Necrofactory stuff come in second and third.

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>>50720396

I happen to like satixis, but that's just me I also happen to run mechithralls and a necrosurgon. I was going to give the advice to run what you want to, its what I did, I like the satixis but didn't care for the banes so when the nerf hit I was hardly affected by it at all. if you want to run revaents then go ahead, learn everything there is to know about them and use it, im of the opinion that almost any unit can be made to work if you know what there weakness and strengths are and how to mitigate/ apply them.
for what its worth I hear the mechithralls are getting a buff in jan if your interested in them.

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>>50720974
with slayers they can work on there own if you get lucky and they arint killed before you can deliver them that's why you try to use some sort of tarpit unit like the birds or mechthralls to gum up the enemy until you can get your murder machines in there,but for there point cost they execl at murder if buffed or the enemy is debuffed. but you are paying for quantity over quality,

I had a slayer poking out from behind a building and he got combined ranged attacked once and that one attack took away half his boxes.

>>50720991
I guess i just don't equate nautical with pirates. The fact their zombies are on ships doesn't really make them seem remotely similar to the swashbuckling satyxis. Terminus has nothing piratical about him beyond some small background fluff, same with the jacks, the fact ones called kraken and a handful have amphibious dont really change that.
Well over 75% of Cryx is undead and beyond the revenants none of those undead have anything especially nautical about them.

What on earth is nautical about the witch coven?

>>50720974
The slayers with the shields seem like a really good deal. A little less killy, but they are ARM 19 and have reach. I think its worth the 2 points. They could shield guard you slayers too if you wanna mix and match.

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>>50721097

not >>50720981 but aside from the revants/ghost banes are the only undead/pirates so they have their toes in both worlds. pirates in cryx are a big part of the army as >>50720981 pointed out there are pirate units and warcasters even if you ignore the crabjacks as part of the pirate theme what's up for debate is how much presence the pirate or the undead takes up, the answer of course is the undead take up most but piracy is no small part of cryx's identity.


got me on the witch coven aside from shanghaiing a pirate ship to get to terminus and pledging loyalty to terminus im not to sure how they fit in to the pirate theme.

>>50721047
Well Deneghra's crippling grasp and feat should help that... somewhat.
>>50721224
Isnt that a Seether variant?
>>50721273
Yeah i replied to wrong person, it was meant for >>50720981
My point was not that there are NO pirates in Cryx, but that they certainly aren't "the pirate faction" or in any way equal to or above the undead/robot undead aspects. Also terminus owns a character jack about burrowing and he has wings! He is the master of land, sea and air!

>>50721345
>Isnt that a Seether variant?
I think it is, but that doesn't really matter. It feels more like a slayer variant because it doesn't get all those offensive special rules.

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>>50721224
the inflictor is an unusual case in that its a cryx jack that wont break if you breath on it is the defensive twin to the seether.

usually you use the shield guard to either protect the caster or a solo that you need alive until they can get the job done that said the key to a cryx victory in my opuion is to smap your foe with options that he has to deal with like
>arc nodes waitng in the wings to let you sling spells to decimate your opponts or slay the caster with spell assanations

>a tarpit unit that just wont die and will let you gring the enemy down

>elite shocktroops ready to pounce while the enemy is dealing with said tarpit

>killer spells that were the envey of other factions

>etc etc

>>50721345
>Isnt that a Seether variant?

yes it is

>Well Deneghra's crippling grasp and feat should help that... somewhat.

it can trust me, denny is my girl. but its a balancing act since we have so few "good" ranged options this is why I suggested the blood witch's/gunslingers run the thralls of the field then shoot them in the back to create bloodmist clouds to help them advance up

>>50721433
Well thats part of why the revenants interested me, the cannon could be aimed at big threats and whilst moving up the revenants can provide a minor ranged threat, or maybe even a decent one with rifles/rengrave?

>>50720396
Welcome to Cryx, maybe after January some other infantry will become generally playable but right now everything that isn't Satyxis is niche use at best and a dumpster fire at worst.

>>50721752
Maybe ill hold off till january on picking up infantry at all then. I should get that Sea Witch thing for my raiders though.

Oh! In all the Cryx discussion i forgot. Are Denny2, Denny3, Venethrax or Scaverous good? I know Terminus is pretty baller already.

>>50720396
>Satyxis
>least interesting

For real?

Mutant pirates are far more interesting than spooky skeletons.

>>50715108
Link?

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I'm thinking of picking up a Trolls battle box
Are Impalers bad? I remember hearing they were hot ass in mk.2.

dead game

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I haven't played in over a year and a half, I played Legion. Apparently MKIII came out in the summer. How well did my eyeless dragon monsters fare in the balancing act? We get anything good?

>>50722682
You went from tier 1 to tier 2.

>>50722709
Oh no.

that actually does sound bad. I do like winning. How bad did we get hosed?

>>50722534
Trolls have strong ranged infantry and light beasts, you'll be fine

>>50722723
Legion were stupid good in Mk2, only trumped by Cryx. You became a normal faction, that's all.

>>50720112
Auto fire.

Basically it's a delayed pow 12 gun unit. Can't reliably win you the turn and eats clock like a bitch, but very good pow for price

>>50722534
They're not bad but they're expensive for what they do. They were picked in MkII due to Snipe animus but right now the animus is 'self' so only he and warlock can cast it. Also Bomber has the same animus, is much harder, has much better shooting and is better at melee combat without being much more expensive.

>>50723201
So Impalers = Cyclops Raiders, and Bombers = Cannoneers?

>>50717914
Pretty sure they hired him for that specific purpose.

>>50720081
>Im sure Constance "worstmotherfuckingcasterinthegame" Blaize is fine too
She herself is fine. If they fix Precursors (Spell Ward and 1" Reach) and add another Morrowan Unit and maybe a Jack or Solo she's perfecty playable. Imagine if Circle had no Griffons. 2na would still have a strong kit, but would be waiting for releases. I'm not telling you the situation around Connie is great, just that she is probably not the right piece to adjust.

>>50720135
It's PR-speak, I don't like it either, but I can read between the lines.

>>50720189
>Skorne's internal balance is actually pretty good.
No. Just no.

>>50722534
They have recently been buffed so that you can now convert one to Madrak3.

>>50722073
>Are Denny2, Denny3, Venethrax or Scaverous good?
Venethrax is pretty good against Hordes and Scaverous is Top3 in the faction.

>>50723309
>She herself is fine. If they fix Precursors (Spell Ward and 1" Reach) and add another Morrowan Unit and maybe a Jack or Solo she's perfecty playable. Imagine if Circle had no Griffons. 2na would still have a strong kit, but would be waiting for releases. I'm not telling you the situation around Connie is great, just that she is probably not the right piece to adjust.
I think you're half right. She is absolutely missing some units. But even in a world with great Morrowan units to choose, I suspect she'd still feel a bit disjointed. Like.. she wants to play forward, but she's not that hard to kill (except under feat). She gets all this focus from the feat, and then often has nothing to spend it on... there's just not much about her that's compelling.

>>50715108
honestly, them employing somebody like Pagani specifically for design and balance is the only reason I have any hope. They've proven they have no fucking idea how their own game is played, and Pagani knows it very well.

Let's see how long he lasts.

>>50719942
>saying Deliverers aren't bad
fucking lol

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>>50724291

Yep, I'm hopeful with him too.

However, DC was a hella game designer and they managed to shit on him to the point he left.

Matt and his wife are very difficult to work for.

>>50720135
>>50720189
So, I've been in the same boat as most everybody, being pretty annoyed at the design team in general for the last few months, and at Will in particular because of that shit-eating grin he's got in his profile pic. (And at Soles, because of that haircut)

THAT SAID, the 12/15 Insider is, I think, very well thought out, and gives a lot of insight into what the devs are thinking, how these problems come about, and what they intend to do about it. The fixes he gives examples of (Ossy trading Deadeye for Fortune, Brad getting buffed indirectly via Wolds, Alten getting a points bump) seem mostly well though out. Gargossals being immune to grievous wounds is probably good, although in the short term, Mountain King stock is going through the roof.

Regarding Skorne, while the "too balanced" explanation may read as a bit condescending, it's also understandable - they attempted to even out what they saw as problem areas, but lost sight of the fact that what made WMH so fun is the "my uber broken shit vs your uber broken shit" design philosophy. And now they're going to try to correct that.

>>50724450
I was especially amused by:
>Everything exists because of #designspace. The space must be created and it must be filled. It’s pretty much a snake eating its own tail.

I mean, if nothing else, at least they're self-aware.

>>50720189
>Skorne's internal balance is actually pretty good.
t. Cygnar player

The only good models in Skorne are titans, Soldiers, and Void Spirits. Everything else is played because we have no alternatives. I don't want to field infantry because they melt and kill nothing. I don't want to field Handlers because I'm sick of needing to. I don't want to field a PGMT because it kills a couple guys then dies. There isn't a single playable light, there isn't a single beast you'd bring for its animus, the support sucks dick and it's a joke that we even need it when other armies just get strong units. Compare Man o Wars to Cetrati. It's not even close. But hey, I can spend 7 more points on an Agonizer! Fuck you if internal balance anywhere near good or even acceptable. Don't even get me started on warlock quality.

>>50724450
Yeah, the Q&A yesterday was good. Maybe not what some people wanted to hear, but good. That with Pagani working there gives me hope that things will keep getting better, but I have a couple of worries:

- There was nothing in the errata that couldn't have been done in October.

- Kaya3 and Caine3 look ridiculously good and power creepy.

- Una2 is not OK, but she may be too new to be errated.

>>50725233
To be fair, Skorne's internal balance is better than Cygnar's.

But I don't think internal balance is really that important in the grand scheme of things, so I don't think that's really an argument in favor of Skorne.

>>50725485
If internal balance means everything within a faction is about as good as everything else within that faction, then sure that's about right for Skorne. Everything is complete garbage, but hey, at least EVERYTHING is complete garbage. Fucking NAILED that internal balance lad.

>>50725467
>- Kaya3 and Caine3 look ridiculously good and power creepy.
>- Una2 is not OK, but she may be too new to be errated.
I take this with a grain of salt. I've been playing this game since Escalation. People always, and I mean ALWAYS, flip out about the new hotness and scream about how broken it's going to be. Lots of things sweep the tables for a few weeks or a month just because they're new and people don't know how to play into them. Nothing wrong with that, that's a natural part of a growing game.

But almost every time, within a month or so, people have figured out how to beat that new thing, and it fades to the background. Maybe like 10% of the time, you actually get a Wold War or similar and the concerns are justified... and then hopefully it gets fixed.

The point being, they absolutely should NOT be issuing errata for things that are brand new (for balance reasons, anyway). New stuff should LOOK "ridiculously good and power creepy", that's what gets people excited about the game. That's ideal. That's what keeps the game from stagnating. If those things are dominating top tables for multiple consecutive months, THEN you panic and start looking for a fix.

>>50720391
>lel mak2 ferox may may ;^)
Skorne's best casters are Rasheth, Zaadesh2, and Xerxis1. Special mentions go to Morghoul1 and Mak3da for trying. Anything else is not backed up by real world results.

So I get how focus and stuff works for Warcasters and warjacks, but let me see if I understand how Hordes armies gain focus
>Warbeast does something that generates focus (runs, charges, boosts attack or damage)
>Warlock can take that focus away from the warbeasts or the warbeast can utilize that focus to cast their animus
>If the warbeasts get too much focus, they go berserk
Is that about right?

>>50722496
They're just hot dominatrices with high heels and whips (and horns), pretty embarrassing tbqh senpai.

>>50726701
Warbeasts generate fury by boosting, buying attacks, or casting their animus. At the start of your turn, your warlock pulls as much fury back as they can. Any beast with fury still on it rolls that amount of fury+2d6 against their threshold to see if they frenzy. Warlocks spend fury the same way warcasters spend focus.

>>50726665
>may may
Oh, it's the memer again. If you think Rasheth or Xerxis1 are as competitively viable as Makeda2 you have no idea about Skorne. It's what the good players play. It also took 2nd at Belgian Masters.

>>50726701
Not entirely correct. Beasts build up fury and aside from other models' abilities the only way to get rid of it is through your warlock leeching or reaving (in case of the warbeast's demise) it. Using an animus is also done through forcing, if it is done by the warbeast. If it is done by the warlock, they cast them like the spells on their cards.

>>50723309

What she really needs is an option like Fiona has, allow her to pick one or more units before the battle and declare them 'the faithful' which makes them count as Morrowans. Also for precursors to not suck I guess.

>>50727074
Those two things alone would fix her.

>>50725763

Una2 has Saeryn's Mk1 feat except better. Saeryn's Mk1 feat was nerfed in Mk2 and was STILL one of the best feats in the game, to the point that it was removed in Mk3. There are entire armies that simply don't have answers to her feat other than 'lose on scenario.'

>>50723281
They did, but I don't think PP fully understands what that means. Their devs have pretty much been a self-contained meta for awhile, which explains how their design choices are so head-scratching to an outside audience. Kinda like explaining rpg house rules to a new player. Pagani is like that new guy who pops up at your LGS, kicks everyone's ass, and scrambles the meta. Normally, people adapt or quit, but in this case the other players are his coworkers and bosses and they can just kick him out.

HELLO. I am a WHALE newcomer.

Hey, hey! I've been playing WarmaHordes for <1 year. LOVE the Skorne. Love Corn Flakes. Love Privateer Press's new Skorne Flakes pin. BUYING IT SOMEDAY.....

just saying HELLO to everyone....anyone out there want to meet a whale? I am calling out to everyone asking this:

"does anyone want to show off their skorne models? this is the place to do it! Show me some models that will make my brain pop!"

I like looking at others models, listening to their techniques and using the techniques for myself and seeing if I like it! post soon!

:)

Can someone explain me how the fluff will progress from now on?

I've heard some rumors that release books will be devoid of major fluff only rules and for stories you should go and read Skull Island expedition novels.

I've finished reading both Malcontents books and while they were very enjoyable my firends eyes were bloodshot when he heard that Kruger1 lost to a minimum unit of storm knights with UA, a solo assassin, single ranger and a marshaled Stormclad, despite having several full units of skinwalkers, an Alpha, two arguses, feral warpwolf and a woldwarden.

>>50727129
>Una2 has Saeryn's Mk1 feat except better. Saeryn's Mk1 feat was nerfed in Mk2 and was STILL one of the best feats in the game, to the point that it was removed in Mk3. There are entire armies that simply don't have answers to her feat other than 'lose on scenario.'
All true. This may mean Tuna is in that 10% that really does need a fix. If so, she'll be running tables for a few months, and then she'll get errata'd in the summer. You need a little time to demonstrate that she's actually broken before you can come up with a fix.

In the meantime, players will figure out ways to cope. We found ways to beat Vlad and his stupid flying drakhun. We found ways to beat the 2010 version of Gaspy2. Incidentally, we found ways to beat the completely ludicrous Saeryn/Lylyth2 BS. We'll get through this, too, I promise.

>>50727255
>Pagani is like that new guy who pops up at your LGS, kicks everyone's ass, and scrambles the meta. Normally, people adapt or quit, but in this case the other players are his coworkers and bosses and they can just kick him out.
Some truth to that, but I don't think they will do so, at least in the short term. The fact that they hired Pagani suggests that they are willing to take their medicine, so to speak. One of the things Will mentioned in the insider was about expanding their playtest "bandwidth", which to me implies more time/people involved. Hopefully that means they'll be bringing in even more experienced players, if only as beta testers.

>>50726765
Took 2nd at Belgian masters?
Robin played that. If you put a pile of shit in Robin's hands he could pilot it to a top place in any tournament. I'm sure Jay Larsen or Chris Davies could pilot piles of shit to high end places too.

>>50729997
Fun fact: every high placement in a largeish tournament should be attributed to the player's skill foremost, but the lists DO matter. And no other Skorne list made it that far.

>>50730158
Skorne player was in the top 5 for the Rocky Mountain Rumble.

As a convergence player tired of how their faction has been treated, would buying into Mercenaries be a bad idea?

>>50730860
Yes. You get treated almost as badly.
t. Stiĺl mad about cephalyx

>>50730860

>as a convergence player treated exactly the way pp announced they would be treated when the faction was released

Ftfy

>>50731255
I don't remember them announcing that their first release in years would be total dogshit.

>>50731106
What happened with cephalyx?

>>50730860
>>50731106
as a new player the only aesthetics I really enjoy are Convergence and Cephalyx, I guess I should start getting used to how Khador/Menoth looks and plays.

>PP making gargossals immune to grievous wounds because huge base babies cannot into counterplay
How long until they are immune to everything?

>>50688736

Hey guys, I'm considering a christmas gift for a friend who hasnt yet tried out mk3. I'm thinking about getting him a deck and a model. What would any cygnar/circle players out there like to see in a gift? Any solos or jacks stand out in mk3 that were unpopular before?

>>50729154
Kruger wasn't leading them. They were being led by some dickbag that was fighting his own clan as much as the heroes. When Kruger did show up , it was like a god appearing before squabbling dogs, and he sorted that shit out right quick.

>>50732313

Found the Caine2 player.

Why are all Cygnar players I see giant douchebags that make up rediculous errata wishlists, act like their OP shit should be their faction standard (because everything that isn't Storm Lances is clearly unplayable thrash) while simultaniously whining about how everything remotely strong outside of Cygnar should be nerfed.

Does the faction just attract these people or something? I never see this douchery in Ret, Mercs and Cryx.

>>50732313
>>50733091
I sincerely hope they add shadowfire immunity aswell.

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>>50733186

I've played since Mark 1 my friend. Let me tell you about the type of players that each army usually has:

Warmachine

Cygnar: Power gaming douchebags or new players that had an army handed to them.
Menoth: Some power gaming douchebags, others get pulled in by an army handed to them. Occasional guy that likes the idea of savage religion and fire.
Cryx: A mixture of power gaming douchebags and guys that always played a Necromancer in every game they've ever played.
Ret: Unique snowflakes with mother issues.
Mercs: Bros.

Hordes:

Trollbloods: Bros. Usually the best player to get a game with, maybe Mercs.
Circle: Used to be mostly bros but lately people jumping in the Circle train.
Skorne: Sado-masochists. Think of the Pain Olympics where people chop their balls off on camera, these guys take it to the next level and spam Rhinodens.
Legion: I LUV DRAGONZ, SEE MY DRAGON TEAR DROP NECKLACE
Minions: Usually bros

>>50733186
why do so many people come here to whine after getting banned on the official forums?

>>50733254
>mostly accurate post, seems good
>wait
>KHADOR CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT
Wonder what this guy plays

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>>50728815
What is whale?

>>50733278

Jesus, how did I forget Khador. No I don't play Khador

>Khador: New players that got into for the big stompy robots. Used to realize the hard way Big Stompy Robots died to infantry. Now they've won the lottery but get accused of being a power gaming douche since Big Stompy Robots is too strong now.

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>>50728815
These two are my favorite, and also the only ones I kept.

>>50732022
Eating up normal merc release slots, costing an extra $500 to get started, allowing cryx solos, then immediately taking it away with mk3, etc. That could've been two new normal casters, and they seem better at making interactive casters now that when all the merc buffbots were made. Except when they aren't lol.
Just salty i couldve got some more human mercs i guess.

>>50733454
Yeah besides Caine3 whos not out yet, the last human Merc was 2012, with Damiano. Or was Wrath in 2011

>>50733186

You would have seen this shit in cryx a year and a half ago. Cygnar made out like fucking bandits in the mk3 transition and jumped to the front of the pile so all of those assholes jumped ship from legion and cryx to Cygnar

>>50733496
2012, i think. Hoping caine is like constance and actually a cygnar release we can just use. But i guess it doesnt matter if we dont get a command book

>>50733846
From the description, that sounds like the case.

I don't even play Mercs and I'd like to see them get more releases (casters, jacks) that aren't just bolt-ons to other factions (e.g. Gibbs)

>>50733644
Cygnar hasn't really suffered in any edition, they seem to be PP's pet faction.

>>50733254
Real faction stereotype

Cygnar: Real sensitive assholes. If anything touches their armies, especially melee, it's complete bullshit to them. Always request more of the few broken shit they have to improve their faction rather than wishing for UAs or Solos to fix their weaker stuff.

Menoth: People who wished for combos and were disappointed that their actual combo potential in the table is low due to low speed. Mostly bitter veterans who rarely swap armies, but will drop and never look back once the mind is made. People who likely enjoy watching WM more than anyone.

Khador: Older people who like historical things, but doesn't actually find things like FoW interesting. If painted, it tends to be one of the better painted armies in the community. Or, kiddies who wanted to stomp things and are very bad at the game due to being a kid.

Cryx: Fat guy with a well trimmed facial hair or a kinda creepy (like if you see him in the mall, you will feel like he's making accidental eye contact at you bit too long) clean shaven man of indistinct features. A tryhard, but never really dickish about it. Very matter of fact style lack of mercy and empathy. They are only edgy if they favor jack spams.

Ret: Anime fan who's never been to an anime convention. Likely a huge devoted fan of something and you will be able to tell since it's his FB/twitter feed 24/7. Likely known in the community for having a catch phrase or a quotable statement that will be frequent in discussion of the player's character. Loves masturbating over how good something is unlike the rest of the community who loves to bitch about the bad stuff.

Mercs: "Actually" or "But" or "Eh...." is always present in conversations. Not a smart ass, but will love to play devil's advocate or challenge conventional wisdom. Fucking immovable in opinion once established though. Conversations with them will reach a dead end/amicable conclusion pretty soon.

cont

>>50734626
Convergence: Likes to think that they are super fucking technical and are playing hard mode when they are doing a pretty basic strategy. Army is either the laziest hackjob painting in the entire world, or an work of art. The army WILL be painted, even if that's silver spray paint with glowing eyes.

Trolls: Enjoys the competitive nature of the game and the precise ruleset, but mostly so that they don't have to argue against people. Really obsessed about every detail about the faction and will likely sperg if any opinion on Trolls differ from theirs. Playing against them itself is a pleasure since they just shrug and accept anything.

Circle: Path of darkness. Super cutthroat technical players who needs everything precise. He will spend 10 mins making sure that stalker is EXACTLY in the right place. Will despise dice with absolute passion, and longs for the day that signs and portents, crits, starcrossed all vanish off the face of the earth. Or is a girl.

Legion: Definitely the younger crowd or has aged gracefully for a white guy by choosing to shave their head early. Chitchat will be brief and non-existent during the match or if won. If lost, the guy will be the first and last word of the post match conversation. Most likely to ask to see your card as anything he doesn't know terrifies him and constantly asks for threat ranges. Will never be satisfied with a win that doesn't conclude by taking the last turn in 5 mins.

Skorne: Masochists. Will confess to hating doing whatever aspect of the game or hobby, but will suffer through it. If he hates painting, he will still slowly fucking paint rather than commissioning. Likes nothing about the faction. Seriously, Skorne players worry me.

Minions: super casual. Here to play the game. Just get it done. He will not fight you on anything. If they are getting pissy at you, you've likely been bit of an annoying ass.

>>50734644
Skorne player here. I hate my army because of how shit everything is. I paint slowly because I'm SICK OF TRIMMING GOLD ARMOUR I'M PRETTY SURE XERXIS HAS LIKE 100 YARDS OF GOLD TRIM ON HIM

>>50734526

It isn't that Cygnar was ever bad, its mostly just that caine2 and Sloane were so absolutely ballbusting when mk3 was announced so the assholes immediately tried to pounce on Cygnar for the easy wins. You're going to see a lot of cunts picking up circle in the next couple of months for the same reason.

>>50734729
Still playing it though.

You guys are like those villains in fiction that when gets stabbed, roars and dig the hero's blade in deeper before dying.

>>50734789
I'm still playing it because I paid good money for it.

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>>50734626
>>50734644

I was the OP you quoted and I find you glorious. The Merc and Skorne stereotypes are the best I've ever seen.

/Troll player

>>50734644

What about people who play multiple armies though

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That Insider is fucking gold. About Skorne:

"In the end, what we created was balanced overall, but in a way that didn’t have much life in it."


The fact that they honestly feel Skorne was internally balanced....should make all of us realize how asstastic the errata will be.

Man PP went fucking down hill.

>>50734856
First army choice is what you are

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IS IT FEB 23 YET?

I WANT MY FISHOOK WOOF AND CAVKAYA

>>50735148
>IS IT FEB 23 YET?
Do you see Skorne players winning games?

>>50735097
The fact that they mention or care about a faction's internal balance is a damning sign. It's like their measure of success is how a faction fares in a mirror match.

Question for Protectorate players: does Battle Driven proc for each injured knight? Like with an AOE attack. I'm assuming individual attacks like with a unit charge or multiple jack punches proc it each time.

>>50735300
Generally speaking, effects with the same name do not stack, so yes and no. Each damaged Knight under an AoE triggers Battle Driven, but the effect is not cumulative.

>>50735637
That's... significantly worse than I thought it was. Ouch.

>>50722530
They didn't "detail" shit, it was an offhand comment about it happening. Just go to Privateer's homepage, the link is right there.

>>50722723
Non-flying heavies dropped to spd5.
Tenacity, True Strike, Safeguard, Zuriel's animus were all removed. Eyeless sight can't see through forests. Seraph and Neraph became pretend heavies with 3 fury. Lots of other minor changes, good and bad, mostly just hitting the randomizer button to give it the appearance of a new game.

>>50724373
DC now works for Steamforged making new and interesting games, and they just announced they will be releasing their own new NotWarmachineHonest this year.

>>50735649
In Mk2 they had a different ability which did stack, and was permanent. Made Harbinger Martyrdoms pretty annoying. They lost a bit of their long-term bite in the edition change, like most things.

>>50735946
Well damn. I may need to rethink picking up a couple of them, then. Unless a theme force does them serious good, that is.

>>50736064
They're still currently good with High Reclaimer, Thyra, and Harbinger. Kreoss2's feat turn cranks them up to 11, particularly if you take their UA. But as a general rule, same-named effects, both positive and negative, do not stack.

How are Steelheads looking in MkIII?

>>50688736
I want a fane knight unit

started ret what am I in for?

>>50738194
Kinda shitty really. I'm super disappointed. Cav got worse, halberdiers are the same so still removed trivially, and riflemen are still okay.

>>50735783

What made it so horrible to work at PP? How can it change for the better?

>>50736064
Two units plus officers is dirty with the High Reclaimer. Probably still will be after his nerf. Unless there's a good theme you probably don't need more than that tho

>>50738621
Welp, that answers if I jump in to Warmachine or not. A shame.

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>>50735783

DAMN! DC is the man and Steamforged makes some gorgeous models.

Imagine this with good tabletop rules;

http://steamforged.com/dark-souls/

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>>50738635

Matt Wilson and his wife. Therefore it can't change.

>>50735783
>and they just announced they will be releasing their own new NotWarmachineHonest this year.
RIP PP

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>>50739918

>>50738544
lots of learning.Ret is like a fine tool that doesn't play by itself at all. You will be juggling your activation to just keep up with the enemy and when everything is in place you score a caster kill right under their nose.

My greatest achivment was ripping High Reclaimer who squashed my army good with his attrition tactics with only Rhan and a 20% functional phoenix.

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Hey guys, I have an odd question for you all.

I bought pic related because it was on sale and a really good deal. I plan on using it for some fantasy skirmish game among other things. It says it's an officially licensed warmachine/hordes FAT mat, which I don't care about, but it's 30"x30". I thought warmahordes was played on 4'x4' tables. I knew it's size in buying it, but I was just curious why the odd size for this game.

>>50742671
It's the new rumble format, in the steamroller document. I think it's a bit silly.

>>50743680
I've played a couple of rumbles, it was okay. much much faster and more skirmishy

>>50732579
Gun Mage Captain Adept for Cygnar. They were poop in mk2 but are a list staple now. They provide good amounts of offense and utility for a reasonable cost. If you know any Cygnar players that don't have one, it makes a good gift.

This may be an akward question but why is there so little Priveteer press smut?

You would think a game that featured Danny cocksucking a cygnaran trencher and with such asses as Sorscha, McBaine, and half of the ret casters there would be plenty to fap for?

>>50744974
not as many artists seem to be in this compared to other games.

>>50744974
Because people just don't care. Writings of characters are bad, but not amusingly meme spewing like 40k is.

Basically there's no one worthy of being a waifu.

>>50745447
Hmmm , yhmmmmmmmmmmmm, Eir... , Makeda?

>>50745447
Irusk can be my waifu any day.

>>50744974
Video games and the hobby part of the game.

40k got it's lewd artists coming in when the vidya came out and was good, especially the number of hot elf chicks with decent voice acting. It also had/has a huge emphasis on the creative elements as well, something about assembling models from base parts instead of having relatively mono-pose dudes already put together I'd guess.

When Warmahordes gets more *good* video games, something with good characters for people to latch onto and that expands the personal elements more, there'll be more. Right now, most of the marketing and the creative elements is almost all focused on the stompy robots and the generic mooks, rather than the sexy chicks - it's not a game that really banks on it's sex appeal most of the time.

But even amongst games like that, say, Malifaux doesn't have that much lewds either, despite selling half on hot chicks with swords for a long time. So I'm willing to bet it's about having vidya and easy access content for people to get excited about.

>>50746055
>it's not a game that really banks on it's sex appeal most of the time.

And with a particularly vindictive woman as part of the company board of directors, that's not likely to happen anytime soon...

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>>50746217

>Someone has experienced the nightmare that is Sherry