Warmachine/Hordes General

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>>50631945
ded game
ded thread
RIP skub

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Opinion time: do you guys think nightmare is undercosted?

I was playing a game yesterday using Pirate Queen Skarre against Lord Tyrant Zaadesh, he has Zaadesh hiding behind a mountain that I had just previously run nighmare up to the turn goes on he feats, kills some of my guys,casts Battle-Charged then ends his turn with 4 fury on Zaadesh, the its my turn. I hand out my focus having three left on Skarre and then get one back from ritual sacrifice to cast dark guidance and then feat, I then move nightmare through the mountain to get to Zaadesh which triggers countercharge from 3 of his beasts and a defensive strike on nightmare from Zaadesh. nightmare survives and proceeds to go ham on Zaadesh which is when the "gotcha moment" happened, the guy I was playing against was the local PG and pretty up on the rules but he didn't know that nightmare got smash and grab and I then proceed to hit him twice then head-butt and then go to town to finish him off.

he was pretty salty about that. we then had a discussion about his cost comparing him to other 18 pt jacks and beasts and he maintains that for what he got/lost nightmare is undercosted for what he has.

>>50632994
>18 points
>slayer chassis
>defensive tech only with denny
Its perfectly reasonable IMHO.

He must have got some shit damage rolls not to take out a single non-movement system with 3 charges and a defensive strike, so its understandable that he was salty

>>50632994
>local PG
>Skorne
Somehow I am skeptical.

>>50633108
that's exactly what I said, he's a glass cannon meant to do one thing and one thing only: Murder if you catch him out he either dead or crippled.

he did roll pretty crappy on the last roll with the Titan Gladiator I believe, I don't think he was able to knock out a single system.


but his main point of contention was that other character models like Proteus and similar point valued models have much less for the exact same cost

>>50633316
>but his main point of contention was that other character models like Proteus and similar point valued models have much less for the exact same cost
They aren't on a Slayer chassis with no guns and no defensive tech except with a specific caster. They're also not in Cryx.

>>50632994
Nightmare is great, and priced accordingly. If anything I think bathroom costs too much. He doesnt have an open fist and he cant drag bellow from a counter charge for I think 17 points?

Your PG is just being salty because he lost to something somewhat frustrating, but ultimatly his fault

>>50633316
Well beasts are on the whole more expensive than jacks. The Protectorate's stable of character heavies are awesome, and except for Hand of Judgment are all 16 points.

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bump until the focus kicks in.

Daily reminder that the electric chickens are superior.

>>50632994
Sounds like a case of well played on your part and didn't see it coming on his part. No reason to start a balance discussion about it other then to vent salt.

>>50635768

the funny thing is a week or too ago I got bamboozled with my own "gotcha moment" when BOTH my opponent and I found out that Grayle had sidestep and my opponent went for a hail Mary and won when I had him dead to rights.

so I get where he's at but I maintain he's balanced for what he has/does.

>>50632994
Sits himself in Nightmare's range and is surprised when he dies. You end your turn in range of a heavy don't be surprised when it maims you.

What is a better deal for someone with no model who wants to start with cryx: Splitting a 2 player box or getti h the x-mas box?

>>50640101
Get the two player battlebox. It's 65 bucks on amazon right now and you're getting almost double the models. Either split the cost with a friend or sell the cygnar stuff.

It looks like the X-mas box only gets you a pin another light and some dice. So for 30 bucks less you're getting a 25 point cygnar starter and one less light warjack.

>>50640147

Guess that deals the deal. Thanks.

>>50640157
For reference I looked up what a BattleBox + the single bane warrior unit would cost you and it's about 70 bucks. If that doesn't sell you on the value of the two player box nothing would.

>>50640163

Yea. That's insane.

What's the point of the xmas box then? For non cryx/cygnar?

>>50640170
From what I can tell based on my knowledge of price points it's for PP to make money. It's pretty uncommon to have a reason to buy from them when I can find the same models on amazon/ebay at a lower price point. Buying from their site is full MSRP so a 10% discount with some free stuff is hardly a sale.

>>50640181

True. True. Especially since they have free shipping on $100 and the Cryx box is $98...

>>50640190
Well I hope you can take your new found savings and invest in some proper starting army. My Meta is incredibly cryx light so I can't really point you in proper buying direction past initial stuff.

>>50640228

Well, I have some people starting to pop up in my store, so I finally have an excuse. If the meta is generally Cryx-lite, then good. I like playing something different.

>>50640252
They got hit pretty hard going into MK3 but the issues are well known and set to be remedied in the coming January Errata. They're still an incredibly fun faction and this is probably one of the better times to pick them up.

>>50640262
Sweet. Good to know that now is a good time. They looked more fun than the others except maybe Convergence, though they don't seem new player friendly. I'd rather go with steam punk necromancy.

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so are the cephalyx any good? or are they just a meme faction?

>>50640293
Yeah Convergence is probably a good second pickup if you want a smaller faction to play. They don't get nearly as many models as other factions (by intent) so a lot of your lists and playstyle might end up feeling the same. They're also a faction who's big on order of operations which is likely to crush a new players enthusiasm with the learning curve.

Cryx was number two by a small amount on my first faction choice. They have some insanely fun models and toys to play with. It's an army that loves spells, swarms, debuffs, etc.

>>50640295

They're certainly unique but don't expect to ever get any new toys from them. Simply given the low number of options available to them they'll never be competitive. They look fun as all hell to play though. I'm not spending money on like 5 packs of drudges/support models and then painting 50+ models that look the same.

>>50640330

Sounds right up my ally, too. I like being annoying to my opponent (to an extent), and if my game is supposed to revolve around a mage, I want to cast a bunch of spells and shit.

>>50640359
Sounds like you've landed upon the right faction. They have the best selection of Arc Nodes (channelers) to sling their spells through and some fairly unique spells. PP has made it a point for each warcaster to have a spell unique to them to help diversify choices going into MK3.

>>50640387

That's pretty cool. Nice to have some diversity. I think the next caster I want is one of the Dennegrahs.

>>50640398
Pickup Deneghra 1. Great toolbox, great feat, works well with several different army compositions.

>>50640414

Sounds like a plan.

I kinda want to try and get an Journeyman League started, but idk that I'll be able. The only people who play already have multiple armies.

>>50640429
Journeyman Leagues still attract a lot of veteran players in my personal experience. Dropping down to play some faster low point games over a couple weeks can be a really pleasant change over playing big 75 point games. I'd talk with the people at your LGS about it. Heck even a small Rumble style 8 man tournament is pretty fun.

Played my first game yesterday as LoE starter vs Cryx starter. Hellafun but i lost inevitably. Didnt really have the punching power to pierce the 18 armor of the buffed Reaper and had to always watch out for his goddamned harpoon, which also sucked big time and my Nephilim didnt actually do shit except shot the face of the bonechicken who did literally nothing to weaken my beasts. So my opponent pretty much killed my whole army with his 2 heavies.
So i wonder if battlebox is just bad or it is LoE or prejustice based on battlebox battles is silly by default?

>>50640446

If I could get 8 people, that would be awesome. I'm a long time 40k player and haven't had a stable player base in years. Just seeing people play anything makes me happy that maybe we'll get something.

>>50640460
You just got kind of a cheesy matchup. Some of the battleboxes have two heavies and it can just make for a bad time if your battlebox doesn't have good enough tools to crack armor.

Your battlebox feat should give you enough hitting power to break through one of his heavies if you get on top of it first. The Neraph is kind of a terrible first warbeast compared to the MK2 battlebox which had a Carnivean. It just doesn't have the hitting power in those low point games.

Well bought an army and found out i can't join a journeyman league with all the other new players. Because I didn't buy a starter box with units i didnt want and bought individual models I actually wanted instead

Haven't played in 4 or so years. How has the size of the playerbase changed?

>>50640562

Buy a starter box and use the models you bought as your points up?

>>50640569
I can only speak for my LGS as I've been playing just over a year but soon as MK3 dropped we got a lot of new and returning players. Weekly the turnout is always solid.

>>50640584
Buy extra models you dont want because of a bullshit rule that makes no sense. If i bought a full 75 point list why the hell does it matter how i bought them from the store.

>>50640649

Then don't play and wait?

I don't know what else to tell you. From what I gather, you're going to want more options anyway.

>>50640649
The battlebox all start with casters that work at a low point cost. If I took Caine2 or Stryker2 in a zero point game I could literally walk up the field and kill your caster on turn one or two with virtually zero effort.

>>50632994
He left his caster within charge range of your heavy. You proceeded to roll well (or had him as your Prey). That's perfectly normal. I'd even say he's 1p too expensive.

>>50640295
They're not a faction. Aside from that, they're really good. They can play a style of list that few can play and fewer are prepared for.

>>50640675
I suppose there is at least some logic to limiting casters, I'm more upset that the only difference between what i have is that i bought an argus over a gorax.

>>50632994
Were any of the charging beasts an Aradus Soldier? Because you should be running at least two of those with Zaadesh2 for the bullshit of being able to drag enemy models away from their targets.

>>50641518
They're optional with him. Don't spend 36 points on a gimmick.

>>50641552
The Soldier is already a strong beast, boasting the highest P+S of all Skorne heavies. Countercharge dragging isn't a gimmick; it's a serious problem your opponent has to deal with.

>>50641564
Oh and the Soldier is a stupid sac pawn target, since all of the shooting will just rebound off its 23ARM.

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its time for cryxmas broken hopes and dreams editon! what do you want for your faction but your sure you will never ever get.

>>50644145
A competent cygnar.

>>50644145
>tough on Bane Warrior Officer
>new Mechanithralls can forfeit action OR movement
>Revenant Crew price cut or something that makes them better
>Bile Thralls get purge back

>>50644483
>Bile Thralls get purge back
Fuck no. That shit was just dumb.

>>50644548
>he can't kill 10/13 models before they get within 6 inches

>>50644710
>a single low cost model should be able to eradicate 20+ points of infantry
Cryxbabies like you apparently need that kind of crutch.

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>>50644739
You only lose 20+ points of infantry if you're bad. Git gud!

>mfw people can't handle the Cryx Tryx

>>50645116
People can handle them pretty well. Why else would you be crying for buffs ;) ?

The art guy for PP said that the Khador Command Book is second for the most new art pieces, so that's kind of exciting. It seems like that book is going to have a LOT of new stuff.

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>>50644483
>new Mechanithralls can forfeit action OR movement

of all the choices I think I like this one the best. id also love if they got Impervious Flesh.

>>50645308
We're talking about the old Bile Thralls, keep up.

>>50645631
They're gone. You're the one who needs to keep up with reality.

>>50645691
>what do you want for your faction but your sure you will never ever get

>>50645722
And that's a good thing. We are all better off if your dreams remain just that.

>>50645759
>he can't kill 10/13 models before they get within 6 inches

>>50645777
Greentext more, fag. Won't make your broken toys come back. Maybe you'll have to learn to play instead?

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>>50645802
>mfw people can't handle the Cryx Tryx

>>50645856
>When my faction is broken other people just need to play better
>When my faction is weak the devs need to fix them.

>>50645856
>I-I'm totally not crying mom. The OTHER kids are just jealous.

>>50644145
Medium based infantry.

Good cavalry.

Who am I, /tg/?

So when are PP supposedly releasing an updated cards after the errata hit?
I know that pdfs will be available to print, but I would rather buy cards

>>50645915
The only broken thing about Bile Thralls was Excarnate, which has since been fixed.

>>50645915
If you thought Bile Thralls were broken by themselves you need to go suck on a 12 gauge. Excarnate was the problem.

>(Zaadesh 2) Lord Tyrant Zaadesh [+28]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Agonizer [7]
- Aradus Soldier [18]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [20]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Extoller Soulward [3]

T O O D A N K

>Cetrati
Caster has an ARM buff? Skew that shit. Also immovable because why not. Vorkesh isn't necessary if you have Orin to counter spells thrown at them.
>Willbreaker
Hands out tough to Cetrati, is an instant cut in Mk3.1 from the Soles teaser, so I get another PGMT.
>Sentry
Hardy as shit, protects Cetrati from big CRAs. More than capable of murdering just about anything on feat turn. Feat solves the problem of low MAT and P+S.
>Agonizer
Countercharge lets you reposition your Agonizer bubble to catch your opponent out.
>Aradus Soldier
RNG2 drag is filthy with countercharge. You charged my Gladiator? Cool, I'll countercharge behind you and drag you away. Now there's nothing in your melee range :^). Also a magical sac pawn target owing to ARM23 against shooting. Invictors under Ossyan will only plink a few boxes off it with spikes.

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>>50640845
the funny thing is I forgot to put prey on himor anyone else and by the time I realized I said forget it. so he was doing it without the prey bonus. I guess he just gambled that would either break nighmare and/or tank the damage with 4 transfers

>>50641518

nah he used an agonizer, despoiler, and a gladiator and Tiberion was off some where to the right trying to deal with my pistol wraith and the witches that were soon to follow

>>50640522
Nope i feated before charging actually but did not help at all. Probably you are right about armor cracking.

>>50648155
>He used two character beasts that have no reason to be with Zaadesh instead of the beast you're really fucking obviously meant to be using with Zaadesh
There's a reason his feat is called Serpent's Sting.

Anybody here from Manchester?

>>50647141
Who's a good goy then?

And I'm just over here with my leaked decks and errated cards.
And I only print out the cards for my actual lists.

>living rules set
>failroom2 digital content shill
>ever buying physical cards

The errata was almost exclusively fixing grammar errors which resulted in autistic RAWfags shitting their britches.

Le working as intended maymay!

>>50648243
to be fair Tiberion doesn't seem like a half bad idea. despoiler on the other hand sort of leaves me guessing, darkshroud and free upkeeps maybe?

>>50648476
Wigan.

>>50648487
Maybe if he REALLY wanted to upkeep 2 spells, cast 2 clouds, and leave up a transfer then he could do it. But if you want free upkeeps to the point where you'll spend points on it, why not bring Marketh?

>>50648480
I'm talking about post January errata you cum guzzling fuckwad

>>50648539
Are you playing at Portcullis or with the Wigan Wargamers? How's the playerbase?

>>50647911
What I don't like about your list is what I don't like about most bad Skorne lists right now: You try to brick up in an environment that answers that playstyle really well. Take out the Cetrati and Agonizer in favor of something that does more work.

You also don't need Max Handlers or the Soulward.

>>50648487
>despoiler on the other hand sort of leaves me guessing, darkshroud and free upkeeps maybe?
He's also a really good beatstick. Commit him late and enjoy the free upkeep until then.

>>50648558
>But if you want free upkeeps to the point where you'll spend points on it, why not bring Marketh?
Because he does nothing else for 6p plus ~1p per upkeep per round.

>>50649335
>Max Handlers
Redundancy. If you bring min and some die, you lose.
>Soulward
3 points to blow a hole in a warbeast is no laughing matter. A Handler can just kill a Handler for the soul, then bang goes the heavy. It also helps alleviate activation order. You can drop your Zaadesh clouds before activating the beast that wants to charge so you can heal an aspect on that beast.
>Take out the Cetrati and Agonizer in favor of something that does more work.
Like what? Nothing in Skorne does work these days. What, you want me to bring infantry? It's all garbage. Maybe Nihilators can approach behind a smoke wall then be MAT9 PS14 on the charge so can actually threaten a heavy? Maybe just another heavy with a Karax tarpit? Nihilators feel the most legit option because you can stay at RNG2 with your charges on a heavy, meaning that most heavies will need to walk forwards to reach you, allowing you to defensive strike still at MAT9 PS14.

>>50649314
>Are you playing at Portcullis or with the Wigan Wargamers?
Neither. I don't even think Wigan Wargamers is a thing anymore. There's a shop in Wigan town centre right next to the bus station and near the train station called Nerd Shak. It's mainly Magic, but there's a Warmachine scene of about 7-8 people who are in the shop on a regular basis. I'm a regular for both games. Normally someone will post on the Facebook group asking for a game on a date, and people will usually say yes. We got the LGS owner playing, so there's always at least one guy in.

>>50649369
>[Despoiler]'s also a really good beatstick. Commit him late and enjoy the free upkeep until then.
Yeah I've noticed that he's a powerful beatstick. Less MAT than the Bronzeback but hits just as hard, and if he goes in first he can buff other heavies too. It's just that the Soldier has ridiculous synergy with Zaadesh. I wouldn't even be surprised to see a character Soldier soon.

So pp still don't have the new book up on the store digitally, what a fucking joke

>>50649335
>(Zaadesh 2) Lord Tyrant Zaadesh [+28]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Aradus Soldier [18]
- Aradus Soldier [18]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Void Spirit [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

How about now?

Is it just me, or /whg/ is 60% skorne, 30% cryx and 10% anything else? It has been like that since ever.

>>50650578
The state of Skorne and Cryx has forced us together as a community.

>>50650578
Nah, they just whine the loudest.

>>50650770
>The most recent Skorne posts haven't contained any whining
>"ALL SKORNE PLAYERS DO IS WHINE"

>>50650355
I like that a LOT more. It has the same problem as a lot of Zaadesh lists in that the only ranged element is Orin, but that's just the way it is. I've heard of a lot of people having success with a similar list.

Now if only he was released to the general public before 2025.

>>50644145
Lich2's mkii feat, including characters
Lich2's cloud wall returned

mkii upkeep cycling
WSC gets their mkii statline back
All Asphyxious returned to speed 6

Bane Riders become cheaper or get something to compensate for being so expensive

Charge friendly models

Def 14 Slayers

Something to replace soul drive on Inflicter, Seether and Bathroom

E-Leaps count as an attack or trigger vengeance.

>>50645915
Without excarnate there is no reason to nerf bile purge radius. It was so good with Gaspy because he was very mobile. Scaverous in mkii could not replicate the sucess

So yes in this case git gud. And Devs really shouldn't want certain factions to under preform so yes they should fix them.

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necrobump

Anybody get any games in with the Indictors yet? My shop hasn't gotten mine in yet.

>>50653266
>Cryx struggles in the gunline Meta
>wanting a buff that only encourages more gunlines as the most effective counter play

Why?

>>50657330
I think you are mixing up issues that don't have relations.

People are gonna take gunlines regardless. Cryx surviving against it is a completely separate issue.

>>50657621
Sure, but if you could pick any changes, why not something that either plays well into, or better yet, shakes up the meta?

>>50657678
Because he's a Cryx baby and the only thing he wants is for Mk2 to come back.

>>50657678
*shrug*

Also frankly, shaking up the meta, I kinda don't want it. I'm so sick of the current meta and every change has been skewing toward more and more skew. I'm really hating how games are becoming more and more decided at list selections

>>50657740
You must have hated a shitload of Mk2 then.

>>50657831
I hated post gargantuans where it really started to be a thing. The meta between initial colossal release and pre-full gargantuan book release was the sweet spot.

I dont get why people keep complaining how wmh models are worse than 40K. They are bloody brilliant while 40K is barely one step above lego.

>>50658132
Am I the only person that cant see the deal with gargossals? They are clunky as fuck to use and go down way faster than anything else worth their point costs.

>>50658145
40k has way better material quality but worse sculpts (with a few exceptions).

>>50658159
Well if your faction has Arcane Shield you start appreciating having all your boxes on one model.

>>50658159
Colossals solved a major issue in Warmachine and created issues in Hordes. It's not as bad in Mk3, but Huge base models require you to do very specific things.

They're generally pretty powerful(well, about half of them), but they require specific casters and for you to build your list around them. Most Colossal lists are about a third of your list being your Colossal and another third supporting the damn thing so you can make it work. But with the good ones, that work can be exceptional.

>>50658145
>>50658204
If you think pp has brilliant sculpt, you have not played much miniatures.

Ignoring shitty materials, the minis are notorious for gaps, misalignment, non-sensical mold lines (warders having moldline through face), and repetitive poses.

People talk about 40k as legos and that should be a compliment. GW shit actually fits as needed with precision.

>>50658274
PP sculpts are fine. Move on.

How the fuck do I stay interested when all I'm getting from my casters is a huge meh vibe, they all do the same fucking thing, and it's dull as shit. I want to be new at the game and excited, not old and jaded again. Fucking mk3, be better!

>>50658348
Don't bring it up then

>>50658491
You do know that "Anonymous" is not a user name, right? It's what everyone here is called unless they set a name.

>>50648730
lel

Good one.

Physical cards being invalidated potentially twice a year...
Goy goy gadget wallet-wringer.

Of course they'll have something for your shekels.
If you ask nicely I'm sure they'll do a custom issue just for you and you can have your cards printed with an alternate colour scheme.

Look forward to altered cards being available. Just like they are now mons.
>god I hope they give away skorne decks!
>have you even looked on their store nigga?

>>50658734
Are you one of those people that can communicate only in memes?

>>50658734
>Just tippex and write on your existing cards the changes
>????

>>50658734
Nigger, we routinely spend £100+ on bundles of toy soldiers. Five quid for errata'ed cards is nothing.

>Case is at its limit of storage
>Sort of want more models
>Considering buying cheap cardboard storage to keep at home
How are the KR cardboard boxes? Anyone know?

>>50659219
>How are the KR cardboard boxes? Anyone know?

Tougher than they look. I have two and have been using them to ferry armies too and from the club for the past four years or so. They've gotten a bit warped in the rain but still do their job perfectly well. If all you want is storage then they won't do you wrong.

>>50659236
Second this -- I got one as part of a lot a few years ago and it's held up pretty well.

>>50658371
What faction? Some factions have this problem more than others, but in general the removal of tier lists homogenized list building somewhat. In Mk3, if you have a good model in your faction, you use it in all of your lists.

Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points

Borka Kegslayer [+28]
Pyg Keg Carrier
Rok [21]
Dire Troll Mauler [15]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
Stone Scribe Elder [3]
Trollkin Champions (max) [17]
Skaldi Bonehammer [5]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]
Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5]
Fennblade Kithkar [4][
Stone Scribe Chronicler [4]
Trollkin Champion Hero [5]

If they errata overtake I will take it with Band of Heroes and get a free fell caller hero. Opinions? How far could I take this list in terms of levels of competitiveness?

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Is that skew? Can it work? Any changes outside of Baldur, his beasts, the wilder and fulcrum (which by the way come at a hilarious 50pts package)?

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

>>50650355
I'm debating 2 options with this list. See, the issue I'm seeing is delivering my infantry. The smoke helps, but if I'm upkeeping a spell, then I only get 2 smoke clouds. So here's what I'm thinking:

>Option 1
Replace a Soldier with Despoiler

>Option 2
Swap the Void Spirit for a 2nd PGMT, and use the two of them to extend my cloud wall, because they can't be shot at or past due to stealth and Nihilators also being small

Does option 2 sound stupid, or clever?

>>50660321
>they can't be shot at or past due to stealth and Nihilators also being small
Stealth models don't block LoS from enemies that don't ignore the stealth.

>>50660516
Despoiler it is.

Ok so here's a rules question. You warnoun advances and ends 5" away from my Aradus Soldiers, who both have countercharge from Zaadesh2. The first Soldier charges into its back arc and hits with a claw, dragging the model 2", so it's now 7" away from the other Soldier. Can the other Soldier still countercharge it?

>>50632994
>Opinion time: do you guys think nightmare is undercosted?
Nah. Nightmare's not even that strong unless he's with Denny. He's a glass cannon - what you're paying for is his high potential output. Even with the bond, he can get shot off the board by many lists.

With the slayer being where it is priced, Nightmare can't be more expensive than he is now... as is, he's interesting, but not auto-include (which is exactly what you want).

>>50658577
Don't bring it up then

>>50660844
Yes.

CC requires him to advance and end his movement within 6" of you. Even if he got pushed farther out, he still ended movement within 6" of you, so the trigger is still valid.

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can anyone post a sea king screen cap? fucking war room is still as shitty as ever and doesn't have that update

>>50662480
>Giant anchor weapon

Uh, where the fuck exactly is that anchor going to fit on the base?

>>50662861
He was in prepare to swing pose at LNL

Hey, what do you guys think about Nemo 1 for casual games? He looks pretty fun and I've put together this list:

Cygnar Army - 74 / 75 points

(Nemo 1) Commander Adept Nemo [+30]
- Centurion [17]
- Thorn [13]
- Dynamo [18]
Captain Arlan Strangewayes [4]
Tactical Arcanist Corps [7]
Ragman [4]
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [3]
Journeyman Warcaster [4]
- Firefly [8]
Stormblade Infantry [10]
- Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard [5]
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner (3) [6]
Lynus Wesselbaum & Edrea Lloryrr [5]


I think those are enough dudes with spells and magic ability to earn Nemo enough power tokens for some crazy turns with his feat and his spells,
What are some weaknesses here? What am I missing which could potentially screw me over? Has anyone played Nemo 1 (or 2, he looks cool, too) before? How did it go?

Again, it's for casual games and I'm mostly using stuff I already have.

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>>50662480

>>50650578
Everyone else is at their LGS playing Warmahordes.

>>50663532
Or quit the game until January.

>>50659860
I think rok or the mauler need swapping into an axer.

>>50662986
>74/75
rrrrrreeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>50664060
>>>74/75
>rrrrrreeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I could swap out Lynus&Edrea for some kind of 6 point solo or something, hitting the full 75 in the process

>>50631945
>Not having a plushy of pirate queen Skarre with a fold for a fleshlight
>Losing money by the minute

I dont understand their business model

>>50663980
After five hours and fourty minutes, an extensive answer.

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Should I buy a pair of these, or are they going to get nerfed to Shelf-tier in January?

>>50664269
Get rid of the champ hero as well. Try to squeeze a pyre in it.

I wish I could be of more help, but I'm burnt out of this game and I'm typing on a phone.

Eh

>>50664965
I wouldn't buy anything until after the errata. Just proxy it until then

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>>50658348

Well, that can be discussed further.
I have no problems with the esthetics of ether game. They fit (at least to my liking) its theme so to speak.
The problem I have with PP´s clearly inferior models (because they are, just accept this), is not because the quality in itself. Its the idea they have that, somehow, they can take more money for worse quality. And they get by, because of fanboys like you. People who don't even stop and think for a moment, people that doesn't even question the logic in it. People who has pp so far up the rear end, they have no need to question anything, because "clearly pp can never be wrong!". And I know this is almost like arguing to a religious person, because no matter what I say, you can never be convince of the opposite opinion.

So, as some anons have said.

>GW fits like LEGO, and this is a compliment.
>GW has far superior models in terms of quality, just face it
>PP has inferior models (quality, not saying anything about esthetics here!).
>Still charges more money for its products

And I know you will bring up the "buh muh skirmish game!!!", but face it butthurt, pp is pushing for more and more larger battles, and more and more larger units. There is a reason shit that was popular in mk2 got the nerf bat, and shit no one owned got buffed, because you wont make new money on stuff people already own! Just as sly tactics as GW used to have.

So yea, cool steam punk models I really enjoy, but I just cant get by the price they put on. And that starter box... oh man, that was the worst quality models I have yet to endure during my almost 20 years in miniature wargames. Sure, that was cheap, but that quality though....

>>50665519
>pp is pushing for more and more larger battles, and more and more larger units
Where do you get this from? The changes in mk3 have up till now reduced the amount of units played, both from a point-cost perspective and from how the meta is shaping up to look like.
Plus the official steamroller rules use the 75 pts which can't fit as many units in to as the old 50 pts.

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>>50665519
>pp is pushing for more and more larger battles
>the standard Steamroller list size is 75pts
>a caster, a few jacks/beasts, a squad of troops, and a few support solos
>my standard 75pt list is still under 20 models

Come on man. I literally haven't played in a PP-sanctioned event with more than 100pts or even with two casters. You clearly haven't played a MK3 game, because it strongly favors a more jack/beast-heavy setup, unless you're playing a gimmick infantry list.

>>50665519
>There is a reason shit that was popular in mk2 got the nerf bat, and shit no one owned got buffed, because you wont make new money on stuff people already own!

The reason stuff that was popular in MK2 was because it was overpowered. They decided to buff the underpowered stuff as a result. Now, when the errata drops here in a month, you'll see the bottom-tier stuff brought up to par, and the "must take" items knocked down a few pegs.

Games Workshop, on the other hand, makes entire things illegal and unsuable (see: Carnifex-only lists in Tyranids, the entire premise for the Inquisitor/Grey Knights, etc.) PP has yet to do something like that.

>Just as sly tactics as GW used to have.
Sly tactics would make entire lists invalid, or unit configurations because of added/removed wargear and the WYSIWYG rule. Privateer Press doesn't do this. In fact, most of my Menoth models are things I painted 10 years ago, that I am still able to use.

>>50665519
I was the original poster, and I was purely reffering the aesthetics. GW still can't make heads after being in the business for 40 years. The models are godawful, and never resculpting the worst offenders (like imperial guard or sisters of battle) doesn't help. PP's materials are low quality and they've got moldlines out of the ass, but they started out okayish and went to gorgeous in less than 10 years.

>>50666618
Oh, and Orks. I pity their fans for being forced to paint and play such hideously sculpted atrocities. WMH's aesthetically closest counterpart on the other hand (outside of old trollkin) are an absolute eyecandy.

Im coming back to warmachine after a long break. I've had a lot of retribution and some orboros.

Are warlocks and casters still very much tide to their iconic warbeasts and jacks? Like Kaya would never field a non-living warbeast?

>>50665519
>>Still charges more money for its products

Nope. They're similarly expensive, but you don't need as much for Warmahordes, especially in the current edition.

>pp is pushing for more and more larger battles, and more and more larger units

Are you an idiot? The recent edition made both hordes and colossals/gargantuans way less powerful. Most armies have one infantry unit, a few 'jacks, and few support pieces in them now.

>>50666825
Fuck, they're probably cheaper.

>>50665519
I recently just paid $350 for a 75pt list off miniaturesmarket. Tell me I can build a 1500-2000pt army for that price and I'll eat my models.

>>50666924
I got my list for about 250$.

>>50666924
I got my 75pts list for about 250$.

>>50666968
>>50666991
Wtf happened. I blame chrome.

>>50666666
digits confirm

>>50666666
Look double devil. If you think sons of bragg are an eye candy, please stay out of the kitchen.

no face GW has put out has rivaled the inbred melting butter that are the kayazy Assassins.

It's ok to like or dislike things, but it's not ok to be retarded

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>>50667054
Man, you should see some of GW's earlier stuff, before they had more money than sense.

PP did not start with cash to throw around like GW. Its sculpts are great now that it's an established game with several years of momentum (and money) behind it.

>>50667206
My Gun Mages are superior.

Amethyst Rose > Arcane Tempest

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>>50667281
Crap, forgot the picture....

>>50667054
>kayazy Assassins
As an eastern european I must confirm that this is an adequate representation of the average goon. This is one of the reasons I left my homeland.

>>50667054
To be fair to the Assassins, the UA is absolutely incredible.

>>50666825

>You don't need as much for warmahordes
>AoS... literally 1 box and good to go....

Not trying to be a fanboy (like yourself), but really now, thats your answer?

>>50666618

>I was the original poster, and I was purely referring the esthetics.
>Comparing it to LEGO while at a later time discussing esthetics?!?

Really now? So, on what level of esthetics do you see a resemblance between LEGO (remember esthetics, not quality or design) and 40k? You know, you don't HAVE to paint your dudes yellow in the face.

>>50666466

>The reason stuff that was popular in MK2 was because it was overpowered.
>They decided to buff the underpowered stuff as a result.

Literally what I was fucking explaining. Welcome to /tg/ you imbecile.

>Now, when the errata drops here in a month, you'll see the bottom-tier stuff brought up to par, and the "must take" items knocked down a few pegs.
>Still expecting pp to do in 3 months, what they promised several years worth of work and research to do.

Yea I see you there Jason Soles....

>Sly tactics would make entire lists invalid

Personal opinion, invalid.


Cont.

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>>50667680

> You clearly haven't played a MK3 game, because it strongly favors a more jack/beast-heavy setup,

Literally my ending in the post. They make stuff you didn't buy more appealing (or not an option in this case), to sell more.
Alright, I wont answer you all, because I already made my point. One post, one slight suggestion that pp´s models ain't up to bar to the price they take, and you have a fagboy festival... ops, my bad, was supposed to say fanboy festival, up in this place.
And as earlier stated, its like arguing to religious people, you cant really make a point because of "belief", in this case fagfactor.. ops, my mistake, "fanfactor" was the word.

So to conclude

>GW models, still superior in sheer quality
>pp takes to much dough for the models they supply in terms of quality.

I still love the game, Its just you guys I cant stand. And while we are at it, lets break the record of responses you guys, prove to me this game isn't dead and its full of lively fanboys (got it right this time!) all over!

>>50667206
>>50667293

You know... I remember the time you could buy mono posed blisters from GW... yea, what was that? About 15 years ago or so?

If you kids want to compare mono posted metal sluggers, do it right. Start by comparing it to other mono posed metal sluggers, like Infinity... yea.. hurts doesn't it... Hurts to look like a TONKA toy all of a sudden...

game is ded abandon ship

>>50667680
I compared them to LEGO because they have fucked up proportions, stiff limbs and blocky, shapeless faces.

Holy crap Legion doesn't get to complain again. First Fyanna, and now Kallus2? Like Legion needs more damage buffs

>>50667680
>personal opinion, invalid

could say that about your entire post

also, having entire lists become literally unplayable (because they are ILLEGAL) is not an opinion, it's objective. having models become literally unplayable because you want to use different wargear now isn't opinion, it's literally the rules.

you like to go on about fanboys, but youre just as rabid as the anti-s running around in politics today

>>50668127

> because they have fucked up proportions,

But.. they are hero scale.. .just like Warmahordes, its.. well oh wow..

Still they have multi part plastics at a better quality than the resin/failcast of pp, for the same (and some times more expensive) of pp.
I swear to god, the fucking quality of the recent starter box was not even a quality I would accept for a fucking toy! Absurd moldlines in a rubber/plastic that wouldn't not go nowhere!

Get it right, I'm no complaining on the esthetics, hell, I'm not even complaining on the quality. I'm complaining on the quality in contrast of the price thats constantly defended by fanboys.

>>50668204

>could say that about your entire post

Well, to be fair, I carried this thread with more response than the rest of the entire fucking thread, so Ill take that as a compliment.

>you like to go on about fanboys, but you're just as rabid as the anti-s running around in politics today

Nah, I'm just baiting you guys to fanboy a bit more, thats all. You're just a bit to stupid to see it.

But again, to recap;

>GW, better quality for a better price than pp.
>Still defended by fanboys.

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I really don't think they've released a bad sculpt recently. Kelly's is a little meh to me but I'm not into the centaur thing

>>50668364
>for a better price
Go ahead and budget out a competitive 1500pt 40k army for $250. I'll wait.

>>50668310
I cant argue with that. It is a huge issue. When I assembled my mauler it had a huge canyon on his back because the back thingy didnt fully fit the torso. No amount of greenstuff can fix that.

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Looks like it's now Legion Hanukkah to go along with Circle Christmas

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Really really excited for these guys. Of course all they say is partisan cygnar and witch mark, no actual good spoilers

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Looks neat, great name. The mail looks a bit odd tho

>>50668409

Actually... using every single unit in Dark Vengeance:
1500pt Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) Roster (Combined Arms Detachment)
Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) (Combined Arms Detachment) Selections:
HQ (420pts)
Dark Apostle (155pts)
Champion of Chaos, Demagogue, Independent Character, Zealot, Zealot Plasma pistol, Sigil of Corruption, The Murder Sword
Sorcerer (130pts)
Champion of Chaos, Independent Character, Psyker Additional Mastery Level , Burning Brand of Skalanthrax , Mark of Nurgle (*), Power Armour
Sorcerer (135pts)
Champion of Chaos, Independent Character, Psyker 2x Additional Mastery Level , Combi-weapon , Mark of Nurgle (*), Power Armour
Elites (610pts)
Chaos Terminators (255pts)
Deep Strike Mark of Nurgle (*) Terminator Powerfist Heavy Weapon Reaper Autocannon Terminator Chainfist Terminator Powerfist Terminator Powerfist Terminator Champion Champion of Chaos Gift of Mutation , Power Weapon
Chosen (255pts)
6x Chosen , Icon of wrath , Mark of Khorne (*), Replace all weapons w/ Twin Lightning Claws , Replace CCW w/ Power Fist, Replace CCW w/ Power Weapon Chosen Champion Champion of Chaos Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Gift of mutation (10pts), Power Weapon
Helbrute (100pts)
Crazed Multi-melta, Power fist
Troops (367pts)
Chaos Cultists (57pts)
Champion of Chaos Heavy stubber , 10x Squad models (champion included) Champion's upgrade Cultist Champion's Shotgun
Chaos Cultists (55pts)
Champion of Chaos Champion's upgrade, Flamer, 10x Squad models (champion included)
Chaos Space Marines (255pts)
Icon of excess , Mark of Nurgle (*), Plasma Gun , Plasma Gun (15pts) Aspiring Champion Champion of Chaos Gift of Mutation , Plasma Pistol 9x Chaos Space Marine 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Boltgun
Fast Attack (103pts)
Chaos Bikers (103pts)
2x Chaos Biker, Chaos Biker Champion (Champion of Chaos), Mark of Nurgle (*), Plasma Gun

An old post, but Ill humor you. you could probably get even better now with GW´s new army deal boxes they got going.

>>50668495
>>50668409

Oh... and thats about 110$, my bad... Did I break your rule of points now?

>>50668473
It's a weird weapon to one hand like that. It's only in one hand because it's a jack, any other beast or trooper would probably be using two. I think with that pose it should probably be held to the side and back, but that's just my opinion

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>>50668525
>>50668495
>WH Fantasy

Daemons of Chaos ~ $329.38
Warriors of Chaos ~ $333.25
High Elves ~ $342.08 (316.25 with bits)
Brettonians ~ $363.67
Wood Elves ~ $391.00
Tomb Kings ~ $401.58
Lizardmen ~ $412.92
Ogre Kingdoms ~ $420.00
Dwarves ~ $421.25
Beastmen ~ $428.17
Dark Elves ~ $451.67
Vampire Counts ~ $465.25
The Empire ~ $498.33
Skaven ~ $603.67 (539.50 with bits)
Orcs & Goblins ~ $684.67

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?331180-The-Average-Cost-of-Armies
>To figure out which army was most cost effective I went to the Army Lists Forum & compiled 3-4 2000 point lists from every army, then figured out how much it would cost to build each list, then averaged the data.

>>50668473
I swear to fucking god a warbeast would have to cost 24 points just to be described like that.

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>>50668431
>Circle Christmas

Too bad our big christmas tree sucks.

>>50668409
>competitive
>40k
pick one

>>50668495
Dark Apostle - $19.25

Sorcerer - $19.25x2

Terminators - $50

Chosen - $45

Helbrute - $54

Chaos Cultists - $10x4

Chaos Space Marines - $39

Chaos Bikers - $40

TOTAL: $325.75

Take off the 10% online retailers usually do, and you're squeaking in just under $300. Nice try, Schlomo.

>>50664965
They'll probably nerf the activating after creation part. They'll still be excellent units, but more limited in number of uses.

>>50668607
And if it was skorne, it would be pow 16

>>50668599

I know, this is like 2 min of Google, still this >>50668409 asshole is in denial... Sad in a way...

>>50668607
Azrael

>he can shoot twice!
>his bond is continuous fire!!!

>>50668751
You mean POW14 with a bond that reduces enemy ARM within 2" by 2 like what Despoiler had in Mk2. Wait wasn't Despoiler POW13?

>>50668640

Hah, one of those "moral fiber" guys over at the 40k thread spotted. You need to let loose your standards and look at what is available dude. 40k can be a hell of a game if you only let go of that "no go zone". Its much like here in /tg/, its the players that ruins the game, no the game itself.

>>50668782
His bond is cloak of ash.

His spears just have Cont: Fire

>>50668727

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot this was a place for people who cant read.

>ACTUALLY... USING EVERY SINGLE UNIT IN DARK VENGEANCE:

Did you get that?

Oh, and again, >>50668525, just to embarrass you a bit.

>>50668636

Love it, will it be plastic or resin?

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>>50668830
>one pre-built beginners box
Okay. What if I don't want to place Edgelords? :^)

>>50668885
It's gorgeous, I will love painting it, and I will attempt to play it.

It will die gloriously. It's Plastic

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>>50668802

40kfags pls go and stay go

>>50668917
I mean, there's a lot else to figure out.

A POW17 gun with two shots seems pretty solid, Cont: Fire seems stupid, and Cloak of Ash seems great minus the fact that most gunlines now ignore concealment anyways.

>>50668886


Thats not what the question was about faggot. The question was "give me a 1500pts list for under 250$, I gave one at 110$. Congrats, you now have 140$ to spend.

Still;

>GW pre-built beginners box
>Better quality by FAR than pp´s pre-built beginners box....
>still, fanboys tryhard.jpg

Again, its not the game thats wrong, its the fanboys in this thread thats wrong with this game.

>>50667696
>prove to me this game isn't dead and its full of lively fanboys (got it right this time!) all over!

>Nearly a thousand attendees turned out at the Privateer Press event Lock & Load GameFest 2016 this past weekend for three days of gaming and the worldwide prerelease of the new editions of the company’s WARMACHINE and HORDES tabletop miniatures games. Lock & Load shattered expectations; attendance was at an all-time high, and the number of games being played was staggering.

>Local Game Store nights are filled with 2x-3x the number of players that were playing during late 2015/early 2016

>Popular/"must include" models run out of stock both in stores and online every week or so.

>The PP forums are full of numerous tournaments, events, and conventions.

>Content creators upload/write battle reports both for casual play and tournaments frequently.

>The fact that there are enough people playing to establish things like "meta" and "overpowered".

I really feel for you if your local meta has shrivelled up and died, because this is a very fun game (even more so with MK3) and I would hate to be in your position. That said, my main store's WMH night starts in 2 hours, and I expect our usual band of nearly two dozen players and painters.

>>50668951
> The question was "give me a 1500pts list for under 250$
a competitive list, now who can't read?

>implying DV is competitive

>>50668795
Despoiler having dark shroud base and spooky times bonded is way better, imo.

Skorne beasts are costed as if you don't need a 7 point unit to make them function as heavies.

>>50668956
Sounds like what your LGS needs is some metagame destroying gun bunnies. Like, 16 of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFxJHbDdnN0

>>50668886

>Just got the picture....

Oh.. good one, really, I laughed out loud! *tip the hat*

>>50668990
God, I want to ruin that list so fucking much.

>>50668451
Oh, one of them died? Huh, guess PP is now killing people off.

Eh, whatevs.

>>50667774
I used to play WFB (Dark Elves) and W40k (Sisters of Battle and Chaos Space Marines). Now I'm playing Warmachine/Hordes (Trollbloods and Mercenaries), Infinity (Haqqislam), Malifaux (Neverborn) and Guild Ball (Masons).
Also right now assembling Betrayal at Calth. So I know quite a bit about metal, plastic, resin, mono-poses, multi-parts and all this stuff.

people still play this dead game?

either play a real game like warhammer 40k or guild ball or get a life you nerds lol

>>50669004
Here's how stupid that list is:

Skorne, a faction whose biggest problem is having shit warlocks, just had a grade A caster release in Zaadesh2. This guy has some serious anti-gunline tech in the form of arbitrarily dropped clouds, and sac pawn letting him infinitely reverse Shield Guard with a beast that can go up to ARM25 against shooting. Zaadesh2 would stand no fucking chance against that list because bulldoze makes every bit of defensive tech irrelevant.

I hope you meant to say "run", because if you were planning to try and beat it, don't bother, because when played right, that list is basically unbeatable. I could design a list to beat it, but what's the point?

>>50669031
Yeah their character kill wasn't very impactful. Playable warcasters will most likely still enjoy effective plot armor.

So we're being invaded by GW shills now? Nice.

>>50669068
>Playable warcasters will most likely still enjoy effective plot armor
Mordikaar's last known location was in the Wurm's stomach.

>>50668990
I saw this post on the PP forum. It's hilariously jank.
>I prolly woulda played all gunners but I only own 11
I hope he just plays it as a gimmick list and doesn't actually subject people to it.

>>50669053
No. I want to destroy that list, and I'm pretty damn sure I could. Lucant deals with the gunline better than Zaadesh ever could hope to, for one, and I'm pretty damn sure Mother can just kill the caster.

>>50668965

>Plastic
>instead of mono posed metal

Oh, I get your problem. You have pp to far up your ass, thats it!
Now, when you have actually learned the art of this hobby, you can actually make just about what you want from DW, go ahead, still 140$ to spend, and a fraction to that to green stuff. Now you can really do what you want.

I know your just cherry picking, but its still fun to just prove you wrong.... for like the 5th time...

>In before "buh, muh first post for over 3 years!!!" *shocker*

>>50668956

>because this is a very fun game

Oh I know it is.
I'm still only applying that GW is supplying better quality over pp for less money. Its only fanboys here thats in denial (thats not only a river in Egypt... *thatshh*)

>>50669148
Zaadesh could deal with it if he brought Tiberion. Basically, Zaadesh's ARM buff also prevents the model being pushed or slammed, and Tiberion is naturally immovable. So you buff an Aradus Soldier, and wedge Zaadesh between the two so that there's no way to bulldoze him away from the Soldier. Congratulations you now can't be shot to pieces.

And then you know what happens? He just fucking swamps you with 6 point models with 20 boxes and a 12/18 statline and wins on points. And the game isn't even close.

>>50669209
So you do realize that for all of those models to have bulldoze they need to be in his control area, right?

That FOC10 caster being that far forward might be alright against Skorne, but most CoC lists will absolutely murder him.

>>50669036

>shows pp´s new metal mono posed
>comment
>well... I know my part!

Oh yey, but you know what you didn't know? To respond to a post. You just did the "well, I have been around y'all know!" comment. You didn't even tell of your perspective of things. Fucking lost, your whole post, totally fucking nothing there!

>>50669260
focus 6 friendo. 12" of bulldozing action (24" diameter)

>>50669277
Still dead. Especially against mother.

>>50669260
The issue I'm seeing is that don't NEED bulldoze, they only need to threaten it to force you into a tight defensive posture. Then they just surround you with bodies and boxes while Ossrum just fucks off back to his flag, and you lose on control points because you can't get through 300 boxes at 12/18.

>>50669161
You're doing the cherrypicking, anon. :^)

Also, medium-based units are cheaper than a box of terminators, casters are cheaper than HQ units, cavalry roughly costs the same per unit, but the big seller, beasts/jacks... oh man, if you had to pay ((($54))) for a beast/jack in WM.

So much for your "cheaper" meme. Now go back to your GW containment thread and let the real players post.

>>50668990
Vinny D would have his way with this meme list

>>50669262
And what is your point?

>>50669300
12/18 with 20 boxes isn't fucking Mad Dogs man, a dedicated ARM cracking list will deal with it just fine.

A Prime Axiom under Lucant, for example, can reliably kill 2 of them a turn with another swing to fuck up a third. Non-Colossal Lucant can have an Inverter clean up two himself each, never mind what Lucant himself can kill. It would not be hard for Lucant to murder more than half the bunnies in a single turn if they just try and jam him out.

>>50669209
>zaadesh loses because bulldoze!
>nuh uh he can bring Tiberion!

Come on, guys

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>>50667406
Ua is just some slav folding his arms. You have really fucked up standards

>>50667361

>>50669463
There's no hope. Just remember that /tg/ is the worst WMH group on the internet and don't expect much.

>>50668451
Calamity.

Calamity in Cygnar.

Calamnity in Cygnar on a RAT9 model with Witch Mark.

>>50668948
POW 17 (Thrown?) RNG 10 Reload 1 is the best single-target gun on a heavy chassis in the game.

>>50668990
And you run into Amon and lose without killing a single model.

Is this game really dead? Or is that a meme? I was pulled into playing it after hitting up a game store to play in a blood bowl league. A ton of people show up to play it and it seems like the 2nd biggest game there aside from MTG.

I ended up splitting a hordes box and took the trollbloods. What would be some good models to pickup? Most lists I've seen online have krielstone bearers and maulers.

Also, how does the merc faction work? Can you just field mercenaires, or do they have to be paired with another faction? I like the dwarf dudes and the mining robots.

>>50671019
It's a meme the shitposters love.

>>50671019
>Is this game really dead? Or is that a meme?

It's a meme. Individual places may have communities that rise and fall, but it's the #2 painted miniatures game right now, and there's no indication that's going to change anytime soon.

>What would be some good models to pickup?
>Most lists I've seen online have krielstone bearers and maulers.

Start there, they're super-common because they're universally good. In general, when you build a Troll list, you start with a Mauler, Krielstone bearer + UA, and only ever exclude them if you know exactly why you're doing so.

Fel Caller Heroes and Stone Scribe Chroniclers are good just about everywhere. Dire Troll Bombers are great. Mulg the Ancient shows up a lot, so does the Dhunian Knot. There's a lot of debate over Troll infantry, especially as which ones are best depends heavily on what caster you're using.

>>50671019
meme. as >>50668956 said there's plenty going on and speaking testimonial the meta near me is bumping

>Also, how does the merc faction work? Can you just field mercenaries, or do they have to be paired with another faction?

you can field mercs on their own they have what's known as contracts that tells you who you can field dwarfs would be the Searforge Commission

>>50671149


Ty, is the trollboods command book the mk3 faction book? None of the other factions have updated mk3 rules, or did they drop that for the card decks.

>>50671019
Mercs can run as their own faction. The only restrictions are Cephalyx, who must be taken in theme, and who can run what warjacks, so human warjacks for humans and dwarves for dwarves.

>>50671205
>>50671176


Cool. I'm probably going to pick up Ossrum, a driller, and some gunners.

I really like painting these models too. I haven't played a war game before. These are far more detailed than most minis I've done for ttrpgs, and even the 3 blood bowl teams that I was able to hammer out in a week.

>>50671262
good on ya and welcome to the game/hobby.

a word of warning though mercs aren't what's known as a "main faction" so the model releases tend to be fewer than the main factions.

>>50671318
yeah I noticed, I just really liked the dwarves, the warjacks with huge drills, and the siege crawler.

>>50670948
Sure, but I wonder if it's just POW17 straight, of if that's conditional.

I also wonder if it won't be too expensive or just flat shot off the table.

The irony is that I don't think it's especially good with it's warlock. She gives it the feat and that's it if it has Thrown.

It feels way better on Thags or any of the Forced Evo casters.

>>50668948
what ignores concealment? True Sight doesn't. Or are you just saying that dedicated gunline lists will have enough RAT fixing that +2 def wont help much?

>>50669094
We really made the big leagues now, I guess.

>>50671193
The card decks have all the new rules.

Provided you have a phone/tablet to run it on, your first (and only, really) rules purchase probably should be the Trollbloods deck for War Room 2.

While right now the theme lists aren't in War Room, they will be "soon".

>>50671427
Yeah, having a STR buff on it will be a big plus.

Fyanna giving it permanent, free Ashen Veil doesn't suck, though.

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Just posting these as I hadn't seen these models painted before...

>>50671743
Jesus, Feora. Overcompensating much?

>>50671743
That actually looks awful.

>>50671777
looks like a yugioh card

>>50671502
Kryssa, not Fyanna

>>50671769
>>50671777

Yeah, I'm not all that happy about the F3ora paint job. The Eye looks pretty boss, though.

>>50671437
Most just ignoring it.

The Warjack heavy meta means the -2 to attack rolls isn't nearly as good either.

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Didn't really get an answer.

I'm thinking of picking up a pair of Sentry Stones. I don't have them. Think it's worth it? The rumor is that Manikins wont have an action after spawning come errata time.

But is that a big loss? Is the forest creation ability more valuable to a melee-heavy pathfinder army? Or is it not worth taking without the manikins?

>>50671193
War Room 2 is infinitely better than the old shitty app. It sucks that you have to repurchase things, but at least the app is not only functional, but very useful and can handle playing games.

I kinda hate paying $70 for the rules, but, that's what, the price of a 40K book + codex?

>>50672292
It's a big loss, but they'll still be playable.

Moves them from "broken" to "good but not an auto-include".

>>50672319
>War Room 2
>Good
>Hey everyone, let's write a database program in Unity!

>>50671743
>dat poor photoshop brush tool tier fire.

Jesus fucking christ.

Also, Feora, we fucking get it, you like fire.

>>50672463
Well he said better, not good. It is better. Still could be much better.

>>50667774
>You know... I remember the time you could buy mono posed blisters from GW... yea, what was that? About 15 years ago or so?

What are you on about? Literally every single model blister GW puts out is mono pose. Even some of the fuck huge models like Alarielle are mono pose.

>>50672032
Yeah Eye looks fresh as fuck. I love that scallop pattern that Menoth Jacks get now.

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>>50672786
Isn't most GW stuff mono pose or near enough anyway? Like I get that you can tack on different gear and stuff but squads of say Space Marines have very little variance, even less so than WMH units that have at least four unique poses in a ten man unit.

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Hey, a friend and I are looking to get into warmahordes. I have some old models from failing to get friends into warmachine, and wanted to know whats a good starting point, and maybe where to go.

I like Khador on paper, and have original Sorchca, a juggernaut I need to repaint, and a destroyer; also half a squad of man o war stormtroopers I believe.

I'm interested in trollbloods and legion of everblight, but everblight's battlebox had little-no models I liked.

What rulebooks or what not would we need? He just got a cheap Cygnar army. not sure specific point values, or where to find those things.

>>50673153
Actually you can get up to some pretty funny stuff if you are willing to cut and glue. Altered weapons, wild action poses.

I had a friend who modeled a Khorne berzerker as punting a frag grenade while charging.

It doesn't make putting up with their bullshit worth it, but unless it is a starter set or old metal/resin, GW models usually have at least a couple of poses and enough pieces to mix them around. In my experience at least.

>>50673153
GW stuff is infinitely easier to work with if you want to convert since the base assembly is so easy.

>>50672463
A working program is better than a non-working program.

It doesn't crash, seize up, or do any of the undesirable things that its predecessor did.

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can i be a meme now

>>50673558
Brick House is not a mene

>>50668394
>Kallus became a centaur

Ah fuck, there goes my one and only interest in Legion of Everblight.

Guess it's Convergence of Cyriss or Cephalyx for me.

>>50669031
gotta make room for a character pistol wraith.

>>50668451
Hope they don't suck dicks in Mercs.
Hope I'm missing something and RAT9 Witch Mark + Calamity isn't as balls out broken in Cygnar as it sounds.

>>50669463
The point is more mathematical than anything. If three bases are jammed together, bulldoze can't push them away from each other, so Zaadesh can always sac pawn.

>>50674575
You realize the best way to utilize debuffs is with ranged models right? One of Cryx main mk2 tourney lists was Denny1 with merc gun spam (because Cryx doesnt have em in-faction). Now Cygnar gets it on a caster that comes with extra dudes, has personal firepower aswell and doesnt even need to hit the spell. Add that to the sick units and jacks they already have.

There is no balance when it comes to Cygnar. Clear GW tactics going on.

Limit the amount of jacks a caster can Power Up by his Focus Stat.
Would Jack Spam lists be fixed?

>>50673208
The actual rulebooks are available for free as PDFs. The specific rules and points of models are on cards you usually have to buy either physically, or on an app. The OP has links to downloads of everything you need though.

>Warmachine rule book
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Prime.pdf

>Cygnar cards
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE

>>50669319

While you are correct, the Terminators are more expensive by $6, they are also a world in between when it comes to quality. To put it frank, Id be happy to pay $6 more from privateer press if I got, lets take Man-o-Wars, with the same quality level as GW.

The point isn't that GW is more expensive on some parts, or cheaper on some (hell, just look at the price range of pp´s cavalry models.. Yikes!), its the price pp take for the quality they provide thats bothering me.

>>50671758

I really like this one!

>>50674988
It doesn't need to be fixed.

>>50672319
>War Room 2 is infinitely better than the old shitty app.
It is the same program with a few bugfixes. Look at WHAC for how warroom should look (aside from the terribly out-of-date data files).

Warroom 2 on a tablet with long battery life is tolerable, but as long as they stick with fucking Unity it will not be more than that.

>>50674988
No. Balance the problematic warjacks/warcasters instead.

>>50674988
It's not broken.

>>50675978
Mad dogs sure as hell is. And some others are at the very least above the curve. No reason to nerf low-FOC casters though.

>>50674988
The problem with Jack Spam isn't just taking lots of Warjacks, it's taking lots of the same Warjack. It's really boring to play against. Just limit FA:U to FA:4.

>>50676254
The problem with jack spam is Mad Dogs are 7 points for 31 boxes at 11/18. That's 4.4 boxes per point, and the same base statline as Legion heavies. If a Titan Gladiator, probably the most efficient beatstick in Hordes, had the same boxes per cost it'd have 61.6 boxes, more than a colossal. Mad Dogs, Juggernauts, Nomads, Ironclads, it's all just too good for too few points. The FA isn't the problem, it's the badly designed models. Mad Dogs should be 10/13 or something, not 11/18.

>>50676400
Aren't those mad dogs and it's brother in the chassis supposed to be unstable and prone to explosion with every point of focus they get?

I haven't played MK3 yet, but last I remember reading about those new berserker variants they had the whole "unstable" thing and should be rolling for explosion every time they get focus, shouldn't they?

That'd equalize the whole problem - every turn they get focus is a turn they just might explode.

>>50676858
They are unstable with every point of focus they use beyond the first.

They also trample for free, can gain +2 SPD, and the explosion is a POW 14 to everything within 3 inches of it.

A Mad Dog detonating in the middle of a unit of infantry will kill most of that unit. That's trading a 7 point jack for ~10 points of models if you're lucky.

Mad Dogs with Karchev have a 3 (Road to War) + 4 (SPD) + 2 (Jury Rigged) + 3 (charge) + 1 (range) = 13 inch threat range and can trade up on heavies using his feat.
3d6+5 (15 avg) to hit and 3d6+14 (24 avg) per attack, 4 attacks per fully loaded Mad Dog. He brings 6-12, depending on the build.

The lower Mad Dog count builds take other jacks with much better damage and runs them as a second wave after the Mad Dogs. Those ask you whether you can eat through around ~6 11/18 jacks with 31 boxes each before he gets in position to kill all your stuff or lock you out of scenario.

I'm not an expert on the subject, and others will most likely expand on the topic.

You can look into other jack spam lists, but most of them revolve around cheap, efficient jacks beside casters that provide battlegroup spanning buffs.

To everyone else: Are there any egregious spam lists that involve mid- or high- cost jacks?

>>50676858
>>50677085
I forgot to mention that the skew causes match making issues due solely to the skew's list composition. Any models you brought that aren't support or that can't effectively damage high armor targets, like POW 10 guns, is more or less dead weight in your list.

>>50677085
I wasn't worried about the stats, I was curious if they changed the unstable mechanism, which could solve spamming these things.

Like, for every point of focus spent, they have to take a roll and risk blowing up. That way they'd only be spammable if you're willing to risk having several of them blow up completely or at least blow up a limb each turn.

>>50675997
Mad dogs is, but not because of the spam perse. Its because of the package Karchev brings that help the dirt ass cheap Dogs to become a real problem for the meta. Notice how no other casters are bringing Mad Dogs? If they were priced appropriately the spam would feel less awful to play against.

SKREEONK

GPODAWUND

Played my first game with Zaadesh2 today, and oh boy is he good. I was against Durst who brought 2 units of cavalry that are actually retardedly strong at killing units to the point of it actually seeming flat out overpowered, but I managed to eek out the win. Durst was forced forwards to try and kill elephants before they killed him and failed to kill the ARM23 Sentry, so everything just wailed on him next turn. Dervishes are fucking disgusting though compared to my equivalent.

>Dervish
7pts
MAT7
PS13
2 initials
Parry
Combo strike up to PS17
13/16
Side step

>Cyclops Savage
8pts
MAT6
PS13
1 initial
Future sight (a really shit ability)
Can grant future sight (a really shit ability)

>>50682212
>Durst
>40 points of cavalry he does virtually nothing for
>eke

lol

lol

>>50682567
You don't need to do anything for Flame Bringers, they're already insanely strong.

>17pts for 5, which is CHEAP
>SPD9
>MAT7
>Fucking weaponmasters with multiple attacks and sidestep
>Oh and parry because why not
>And reposition 5
It's very hard to protect your caster from something like that. It's also very hard to protect Beast Handlers (see: THE ONLY WAY MY BEASTS CAN KILL ANYTHING) from that.

RIP skreeonk anon

>>50666924
You can build a 1500-2000pt army for that price.

Get eating.

>>50641098
... if that's literally the only difference, why not buy a Gorax on its own and then lie?

>>50682977
As demonstrated in the rest of the GW divergence, the only example that naysayer could come up with was the one-off plastic starter box. And there were dozens of other examples stating otherwise.

>>50640562
>Well bought an army
>found out i can't join a battlebox league with all the other battlebox players

>a bullshit rule that makes no sense
The point of the MKIII battleboxes is that they are zero-point game and balanced against each other. They also include well-rounded casters, instead of letting you pick the most optimal caster for

The point is to start from a relatively even playing field. Not our problem if you can't understand that. You can swap casters a few weeks in.

>>50683001
Doesn't need to lie. However, there's no point really, since the casters that come in the battleboxes are exclusive to the box and aren't sold individually.

>>50640569
I play at two game stores on different days of the week.

Most places are double to triple the number of players during the waning 2015-6 season of Mark II. The new ruleset, as well as quality of life changes, has definitely brought back returning players, especially ones with pet units that were sitting on the shelf and are now good.

The only people I haven't seen are people who got into it very recently during the slump, and don't want to buy new units. Oh, and Cryxfags.

>>50683403
>balanced against each other
Tell that to battlebox ragnor

>>50683403

The battleboxes definitely aren't well-balanced. Compare the Ret box, coming with a good/great caster, to the Legion box, which comes with one of the faction's worst casters.

>>50683481
>>50683437
To chime in, while Ragnor is an issue, the others aware fine when you consider they're for new players.

>>50640347
> they'll never be competitive
They are, but they need a normal merc list as the second list

>>50670890
Can be RAT 11 with rangers.

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:3c

>>50685786
rat 13 with flare + rangers!, 15 when you aim :)

>>50671758

Very Badass looking.

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If a spell/animus says "When a friendly Faction model makes an attack", can/does that include itself when it makes an attack?

since the only warcaster I have is Father Lucant and it's gonna take me a while to make my other casters battle ready, what are some tips on effectively using a defensive feat?

>>50686216

>When you have to take a shit but home is still 30 minutes away.

>>50687952

Yes.

Daily reminder that warmachine is dead

>>50688031
What kind of list are you thinking of running?

Lucant's big on very defensive denial, even if it got hit some.

One of the biggest things to figure out with him is when to feat. Lots of people feat to avoid an Alpha, and that's absolutely fine, but if your opponent can just back up and wait a turn, you've basically wasted your feat. You need to either force them to engage you, or you want to wait for the feat to go until after you've already engaged, where your opponent can't just wait it out.

You're slower than most everyone else, so it's super important you know how to deal with that.

>>50688527
a broken clock is bound to be right some time

>>50688527
New thread for dead game.

>>50688736

>>50688736

>>50688736

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>>50688723
my main issue was that I was in a match with attached against a Skorne list and he was pulling close, I figured "I might need to pop my feat but I'll probably be fine," then on his turn he popped feat and did the entirety of the health of both my battle engine and my axiom in one turn. I think a big part of the problem is since the only other hobby game I play is MtG I'm used to being able to interrupt actions, and you can't really do that in WMH. I'm working on getting my Iron Mother ready for action but I lost her front cloth and don't feel right fielding her without it.

>>50688780
Lucant is one of the ones who can interrupt actions, and it's important to take advantage of that.

You want an Inverter in your list with him, basically always. You can then have Watcher up, and when an enemy heavy gets close, have it move up and hit it with the auto knockdown melee weapon, preventing them from swinging.

Who were you playing against?

Things I see off the top of my head:

Don't attach the TE to an Optifex unit. It's a giant waste.

Minimum Recips are a bit weird, you really want the max.

I've personally found trying to do the TEP and the PA with Lucant very difficult, it's a lot of space to deal with and a lot of things to protect.

>>50688846
wrong list, it was Inverter instead of Cipher, full Recips, and no TE. a big problem was that I got bottlenecked, yeah. It was against Xerxis running two bronzebacks, a champion, a unit of paingivers, a unit of Karaxes, and a Tiberion.
he feated, slammed his Tiberion and both bronzebacks into my PA and TEP, and bought moves on them enough to take out both of them.

Any suggestions on changing the list? I like taking both of my huge bases because they're both strong enough to clear out a LOT of the enemy units, like the TEP halved the Tiberion and took out the majority of Karaxes on his own and the PA forced him to play around his main strategy for two turns, but on a terrain-heavy map like what we were on I was kinda boned.

>>50688932
Posted in the next thread about it.