OSR General - First time creating thread edition

Goddamn, mixing LotFP rules together with DCC rules feels like making a new game in itself. It sucks but I want the best of both worlds damnit! I refuse to kill my darlings!

>>50680656
Then make it, anon. I'm sure all the other OSR fans would love to see your work.

I want to break in to OSR, but I can not find a group at all that plays anything other than 5e and Pathfinder in my area, and looking online has been a bust due schedule conflicts. I've got some friends who've barely played RPGs at all interested though so I'm going become a DM for them. What systems would you guys recommend for a group of people new to tabletop? Originally I was just going to grab an older version of D&D, but there's so many variations and differet revisions I don't know where to start.

>>50680656
Hey, man, OSR is all about that DIY spirit. Just use what you want to use, don't feel pressured to use or not use something just because it's in the same book.

Unless what you're changing drastically changes the way the base systems of the game function, I guess. You probably want to be a bit more careful when messing around with, say, wandering monster checks or GP=XP.

>>50676005
It's an artifact from Chainmail (and other wargames, but Chainmail's what got it into D&D): everyone moves, those in contact get fucked up by melee contact, and then all the archer fire. Sometimes in different orders. It depends on whether or not you want people to be able to close in and melee before the archers get a chance to shoot, or if you also have a magic phase whether or not you want spellcasting to be interruptible.

Note, however, that Basic mostly gave up on the idea of simultaneous combat and thus the specific order (and, in fact, the phases and and of themselves) matters less. Unless, like, you want to mess around with being able to attack with a buff the same turn it's cast.

It does help give focus to group initiative, though, which IMHO is probably the one you should be using in an OSR game for various reasons (simplicity, increased coordination, less dead air, etc.)

>>50680706
Beyond the Wall is literally made for this

>>50680706
Basic, easy. Moldvay Basic if you want to be able to reference the damn thing, Mentzer Basic if you want to learn how to play without anyone telling you how to go about doing it (but, well, chances are you already know a bit).

Banning the Thief may or may not be a good idea.

If you want a product that's actually in print, though, you'll need... what, Labyrinth Lord? What are there for good newbie-friendly Basic clones out there?

Different games are also an option, of course - I've heard some good things about >>50680749.

>>50680788
>>50680749

I'll give those a look through then. I started playing games a few years back, but it's only ever been modern systems. I've played what I think was 1st edition AD&D a few times at a convetion last year which is what made me want to find more old stuff to play. There was so much more freedom and less being constricted by feats, overly specific skills, and gimmick dice. Like I said most of the group will be newer players, though one of the players has been playing since the late 90s.

I've seen Labyrinth Lord mentioned quite a bit so that's on my list as well as Dungeon Crawl Classic too. I'll add Beyond the Wall to that list as well. I just figured starting with an older D&D would give me access to the most adventure modules, as I'm not going to be comfortable throwing together my own campaign from scratch until I get more used to DMing. But I guess converting stuff between editions isn't as complicated as it sounds, especially since everything is trying to emulate original quite a bit.

File: Labyrinth Lord vs BX.png (3MB, 1248x2998px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1248x2998px

>>50680949
>I just figured starting with an older D&D would give me access to the most adventure modules, as I'm not going to be comfortable throwing together my own campaign from scratch until I get more used to DMing. But I guess converting stuff between editions isn't as complicated as it sounds, especially since everything is trying to emulate original quite a bit.
I don't think this would work with DCC (or Beyond the Wall? I'm not sure what that's based on), but Basic modules are going to be broadly compatible with a whole slew of Basic-based retroclones, like Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy, Swords & Wizardry (though it's technically an OD&D clone) and so forth. AD&D modules will work for them too, though they may contain spells that you have to look up because they aren't in Basic, or classes that you have to convert: ranger to fighter, etc.

>I've seen Labyrinth Lord mentioned quite a bit
I think it's pretty much the default "so you want to play B/X but need a book that's in print?" option. I personally prefer B/X, itself, though I do advocate regularizing the cleric spell progression by swiping the progression from BECMI.

>>50681366
>I personally prefer B/X, itself, though I do advocate regularizing the cleric spell progression by swiping the progression from BECMI.
There's actually some logic behind that progression, weirdly enough - getting 3rd and 4th-level spells at the same time means that despite having the fourth-level slot mostly locked into Cure Serious Wounds, you also get a third-level slot you can fill with something more general. Remember, no putting first-level spells in third-level slots in the really old-school systems.

Getting fifth-level spells at level 7, though, mostly seems like a quick cludge to make it so that you get 2 spells across the board at name level without skipping over one fifth-level slot. This gets weirder when name level is raised to level 9, though.

The weird-ass progression with sixth/seventh-level spells is just an artifact of them being added after the class, though. The OD&D cleric has spell progression to level 11 in the LBBs, and level 12 is where Greyhawk slots in the new slots.

I reckon that you can play it however you want as a DM, but I think I'd lean towards the more generous B/X table to give the player's a leg up.

>>50681651
Clerics are already pretty good fighters and gain levels quicker than anybody but thieves at low to mid levels, and quicker than anybody at all at high levels. I don't think they need to surge ahead in spells like that. A magic-user with 50k XP has spells per day of 2/2/2, while a cleric with 50k XP has spells per day of 2/2/2/1/1. That's two full spell levels ahead of magic-users despite the fact that clerics start off behind, as they don't get any spells at 1st levels. That's just screwy in my book.

File: Kwikemarthead.png (372KB, 603x461px) Image search: [Google]

372KB, 603x461px

Do you OSR-playing grognards play in old settings or use new ones or your own homebrews?

>>50681959
Yeah, but the Cleric's spells are of an entirely different nature than the Magic-User's.

Mostly because, well, they have a certain tendency to help the group as a whole. Cure Serious Wounds and Protection/Evil 10' radius and Neutralize Poison at level 4, Dispel Evil and Raise Dead at level 5, and so on.

They also get their only real offensive spells in Sticks to Snakes and Insect Plague, I suppose, but neither of those are anywhere near as powerful as the M-U equivalents at those levels - Charm Monster affects the same critters as Insect Plague, for instance, but also scales upwards and is goddamn Charm Monster, while fifth-level spells start getting dangerously powerful with shit like unlimited Animate Dead, Cloudkill, Teleport and Magic Jar.

Spell levels aren't really all too relevant when you're comparing two different classes, to be honest - the most obvious example here is seventh-level spells, of course.

Also, they're not really that far behind magic-users in slots even in BECMI? The lesser XP needed kind of adds up.

>>50680202
>Misty Isles of the Eld

Stick around, anon, I'll have it up for you later today.

>>50680306

Huh, I don't see it posted. Either way, I've got a ton of stuff off IRC I'm going to upload to Mega today, I'll leave it in the pile anyway.

>>50670866
Wilderlands of High Fantasy is just old-school, but definitely OSR related.
You should also check out regular non-N Carcosa if you haven't.

>>50682224
I use my own homebrew setting.

>>50682673
Is that a reference to The Forgotten Beasts of Eld?

I know it on the trove, but Rappan Athuk is on sale for 8 bucks.

File: 183439[1].jpg (650KB, 900x1350px) Image search: [Google]

650KB, 900x1350px

>>50683254
>Lawful Evil space elves with a taste for bizarre bureaucracy, biomancy, and (David) Bowie

>>50683393
Speaking of which, does anyone have Cyclopean Deeps Volumes 1 and 2?

Distinctive subsystems or a unified mechanic?

>>50683504

Oh! I thought that was for Pathfinder, so I didn't grab it, but the website says Pathfinder and Swords & Wizardry. No problem, I've got it now. I'll post it with the other stuff when it's all done uploading.

>>50683702
Only go for a unified mechanic if you can actually get the math working for everything.

3E couldn't, for instance. (Also, it still has a bunch of extraneous roll-under d100 rolls here and there, like with concealment and whatnot.)

>>50683702
I appreciate unified mechanics as something you can fall back on, but me and my players get a huge kick out of devising and negotiating resolution methods for various things.

I do like to feel that mechanical base is solid for me, otherwise I'm not comfortable making rulings.

>>50683725
Great - thanks!

anyone have/read Hackslashblog's book Perdition?
Also, what systems is it built for compatibility with, and what would require conversion?

File: 1474168441035.jpg (1MB, 2187x2821px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2187x2821px

So /osrg/, I'm thinking of running a 2e campaign for my friends (I've heard the argument that 2e isn't osr, but I'd rather not start my own thread for this) and I'm curious about which supplements I should include, which optional rules to look into and what I should scrap.

I'm going to include domain rules from BECMI/RC later on as the setting is a homebrew stemming from a generic fantasy land at the start and passing through a mysterious gate and winding up in a new world (old world is modeled somewhat on Forgotten Realms, the new world is basically the Americas+East Asia in the north with South Asia+Africa in the south).

Party is tasked first to go through and explore, meeting and fighting the locals and local monsters before eventually establishing their own regencies in the new world.

>>50686674

Player's Option: Combat and Tactics has some neat stuff if you want more detail in combat. On the other hand, Player's Option: Skills and Powers is best sent straight to the incinerator lest a powergaming munchkin get his grubby hands on all that horrible, broken nonsense.

>>50686674
>>50686674
>the new world is basically the Americas+East Asia in the north with South Asia+Africa in the south
Get Maztica, Oriental Adventures (AD&D), Nyambe (3e). Dark Sun's Tohr-Kreen realm detailed in Thri-Kreen of Athas could be on the other side of a big desert. Ravenloft's G'henna might work too.

File: IotF.png (1MB, 1843x875px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1843x875px

>>50682224
>Do you OSR-playing grognards play in old settings or use new ones or your own homebrews?
Yes. I've run games in Oz, Narnia (although I WAS 15 at the time..), Narcosa, The Land of Unreason AND Wonderland, the Hyperborean age, a good dozen worlds of my own creation, and Mystara. I've played in Dark Sun, FR, and even Dragonlance. Right now I'm running an R&PL campaign off-and-on, and doing a bunch of stuff in a pseudo-historical Age of Discovery campaign that's getting pretty ugly. One party is about to let Queen Mabh loose on North America (in Dunnsmouth), and the other is in the middle of a brewing slave revolt in the Canary Islands that may or may not be the result of Fae interference in the government of France and Spain. Oh, and most of Tangier is under the sway of a massive, and rapidly-spreading, plague-cult with an artifact that has given them control of the demon Ose.

Anybody else get the new LOTFP modules?

>>50686674
2ed without splatbooks might be one the best D&Ds along with the RC.

File: s-l400.jpg (32KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 400x400px

<-- Just bought that at Half Price Books because I did not want to pass it up.

Is it any good?

File: POSnP.png (121KB, 220x289px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 220x289px

>>50687894
<-- I do not have this but is it any good should I happen upon it?

>>50687894
>>50687910

>>50686729

>>50687973
Ah.

File: og paladin.jpg (160KB, 558x788px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 558x788px

So I've been reading Labyrinth Lord all evening and it's pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Also glanced through the Advanced guide and glad to see it has things like Paladins and whatnot for extra options - love me some Paladins. All those supplements in the trove are encouraging as well. Originally I was just going to see if I could find a copy of basic or adnd at my FLGS, glad you guys recommended this.

The only thing I need to figure out is some minor details for when I eventually try setting up a campaign like non-combat encounters and RP moments. The handful of times I've played an OSR it's all been very combat and dungeon focused. Don't know how I'll handle when the party wants to spend a night in town getting into all sorts of bizarre shit without combat, which always seems to happen. How do old school dnd and OSR games handle stuff like diplomacy and bluffing and whatnot without resorting to massive skill lists like modern games, just all at the DM's discretion? I'm very used to modern games with lots of non-dungeon stuff going on I guess, so the switch to focusing on sword and sorcery adventures is both welcome and a bit intimidating.

Then again this all assumes I can actually convince any of my buddies to play something other than 5E, Pathfinder, and FFG RPGs.

File: santa2-740x360.jpg (287KB, 740x360px) Image search: [Google]

287KB, 740x360px

>>50682673
>>50683725
>>50684402

Ho, ho, ho! Merry Christmas, folks! Here's all the crap I've downloaded recently, including Cyclopean Deeps.
I tried to sort the OSR and other Trove related stuff into a subfolder, but I may have missed some, so here's a big ~2 gig pile of everything. Go nuts.

This stuff will be up in this folder at least a week, maybe two. (The Traveller stuff will probably get filed on Friday in time for the next Traveller General.)

https://mega.nz/#F!xVdz0IrB!oSBtajYqiOMr06o6cd79lA

>>50688055
Ive always liked roll under ability scores with bonuses increasing the target number at my discretion. I also generally let one roll ride the entire scene unless sometjing significant changes.

For persuading an NPC, I don't require then to act it all out unless they want to. I just ask them to tell me what approach they're doing to persuade em.

>>50688284
This is generous of you. Thanks anon!

>>50687910
>>50688024
I seem to recall that Skills & Powers actually had some redeemable material related to Psionics

>>50688448
Makes sense, factoring in ability scores depending on the approach. Too used to systems that have massive skill lists for everything.

>>50688284
>Green Law of Varkith
Goddamn. Thank you. Never thought I'd see that in the wild.

File: MFCover_3rd_Printing.jpg (356KB, 837x1080px) Image search: [Google]

356KB, 837x1080px

Have any of you actually played Mutant Future? I'm dying for some good post-apocalyptic OSR time.

File: baseraiders.jpg (212KB, 620x872px) Image search: [Google]

212KB, 620x872px

I question the possibility of a truly OSR supers game but Base Raiders is a perfect premise to bring the two together. If only it was not a half-baked attempt to make a supers game *and* a dungeon crawl game out of Fate. Nothing against Fate but it quite simply does not do proper dungeon crawls.

>>50680949
Might want to look at Swords and Wizardry as well, my group liked it more that LL

>>50682224
All of the above

>>50689241
It is okay.

we ended up switching to GURPS

>>50688055
Just talking works. I sometimes invent a roll if I want something like that but I kinda like being able to lie and have them be uncertain.

>>50688055
>Don't know how I'll handle when the party wants to spend a night in town getting into all sorts of bizarre shit without combat, which always seems to happen. How do old school dnd and OSR games handle stuff like diplomacy and bluffing and whatnot without resorting to massive skill lists like modern games
I very strongly recommend you pick up Vornheim. It's in the Lamentations of the Flame Princess folder. Some of the stuff in it (while really creative and cool) kind of requires you to have a physical copy or a printout, and it's worth the money anyway. It's a general guide to running shit in a city, and has a bunch of useful tables and ways of adjucating stuff.

In the Judges' Guild folder, there's the Ready Ref Sheets, which is one of the ways the OD&D guys originally handled city adventures and diplomatic shit/ Or, as my Dad said when I showed him my copy "Damn, haven't seen one of those since 1982".

Oh, and I do personally adjucate a lot of stuff. It all depends on whether failure has serious consequences or not. Dice only come out when they do.

File: 1d100 late night encounters.png (583KB, 1098x2629px) Image search: [Google]

583KB, 1098x2629px

Hey guys, d100 chart guy. Gonna do at least one tonight, first reply to this thread picks the topic of the chart.

I'll also post the last 3 I did, in case anyone missed them.

>>50689773
>first reply to this thread picks the topic of the chart.
omens and signs

>>50689928
You want I should do just the omens themselves, or omens and their meanings?

>>50689773
Wandering post-apocalyptic scenarios.

>>50683759
3e intentionally had d% rolls for rolls that weren't supposed to vary with skill or anything

>>50689976
Honestly watching the players try to interpret them is like 90% of the fun

File: saurial_redux_by_brownboot.jpg (455KB, 570x663px) Image search: [Google]

455KB, 570x663px

>>50686729
>>50686999
Alright, how about the "Complete" books? Anything I should look into with those? Was thinking maybe making the new world have other humanoids besides humans, elves, dwarves, etc. Things like Kobolds, Saurials, Beastman, and Firbolg, more or less. Would it make the setting more interesting, especially considering if the players die and need to make a new character from the new races...

>>50689241
I did once, but found it too random at the time. Maybe I would find it better now, I don't know.

File: 1d100 Omens and Signs.png (284KB, 1847x1328px) Image search: [Google]

284KB, 1847x1328px

>>50689928
>>50689976
Here ya' go. Thanks for the inspiration, gonna do some writing for my campaign now.

Rolled 51 (1d100)

>>50690447

I'm getting really into OSR zines. What are people's favourite ones?

>>50690297
Complete Humanoids and the class books offer some pretty cool options, but they clutter the game up immensely. I'd poke around in Complete Fighter, Thief, and Magic-user. Some of the Historical books (the "green-backs") are cool, but most are really badly-put-together. Most all are subtractive rather than additive, I.E. telling you what rules >not< to use but giving you nothing more than some historical framework for the setting.

That said, the Classical Greece book has some cool stuff on making >actually< tragic heroes. The Northern Reaches (TSR GAZ-07) also has a really cool NPC generator in it, that's much less-clunky than the 1e Page 100 table clusterfuck.

File: 1336686738012.jpg (90KB, 374x599px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 374x599px

>>50690447
Thanks much.

>>50689798
>>50689783
>>50689773

These are rad, man. A lot read more as adventure hooks than encounters, but I guess that just means they're especially evocative.

>>50690524
It's probably just a byproduct of the way I run games. Lots of weird loose ends that I keep track of and tie in to later things.

>>50690471
Fight On! is golden, Vacant Ritual Assembly and Undercroft are perfect for LotFP. Metal Gods of Ur-Hadad is pretty inspirational although I don't run DCC.

>>50689241
I've ran it and played it a few times. Due to the random nature of the game you'll usually end up with a character you really enjoy, or really hate. It's entirely possible to be so deformed you have -2 tohit and can only attack once every 2 rounds. It's also possible to roll a plant that does 10d6 nuclear tomato damage.

Confession: I generally find the D&D 4e Gamma World to be more enjoyable.

>>50689350
Happen to have a PDF? My supers group would probably like this.

What are differences between all the versions of City State of the Invincible Overlord and which one is the best? Which one is worth getting a physical copy of?

>>50690297
if you use Complete Book of Humanoids, you should either ignore the Class/Level restrictions or at least lighten up on them by a lot, if you don't then most of the races end up being rather useless compared to rolling a bog standard Human

Has anyone been able to make a xp = gp house-rule or similar incentive for old-school exploration in 5e?

In the same vein; do you think 5e delivers (or can deliver) an old-school playstyle? I seem to remember a lot of OSR blogs talking about that during it's release.

>>50693824

You probably could, but without 5e books of my own, I can't advise you of the pitfalls.

Basically, you'd need to compare the treasure tables to the XP needed to level up. How many encounters would they need to defeat? How many lairs would they need to loot to level up every level?

What other assumptions does the game make about treasure and XP that you need to take into account?

I think 5e can do okay, but in general I'm not fond of it.

>>50690297
>>50690297
>Alright, how about the "Complete" books?
Complete Elf (or whatever) is generally viewed as power-gamer fodder because of one kit with lots of mechanical advantages with only a few mechanical disadvantages.
Complete Necromancer is apparently pretty good.

>Kobolds, Saurials, Beastman, and Firbolg
Complete Book of Humanoids.

>>50690471
I like & Magazine

>>50693824
>In the same vein; do you think 5e delivers (or can deliver) an old-school playstyle?
No. At least not without huge fundamental modifications and additions.

It has no rules for dungeon exploration and resource management in the game is nonexistent. It's also heavily based on character building and combat. D&D 5 is best suited for plot-based adventuring with set piece encounters and that's pretty much the opposite of what old school D&D is supposed to be.

File: Lesser Underworld Encounters.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

To the Lesser Underworld requester; here it is. Hope you enjoy.

>>50694246
If you take requests: fungoid forests?

Here's a poor bastard of an anon who's up against 6 ghouls. Wish him luck.
>>50693704

>>50694384

Do you want a spore infection mechanic where many encounters, some of the wandering monsters and even some of the loot turns you slowly and surely into a fungus zombie cordyceps thing?

Oh you do? Really? Sounds great, thanks.

>>50694870
You are genius.

I'm doing a short OD&D campaign based around a derelict castle built by a deranged occultist baron. What could be in the courtyard?

>>50695050
>the courtyard is an overgrown map based on movement of the stars, the characters must move in the correct arcs and patterns to cross safely
>a series of fountains that all convey different effects if filled with obscure, obscene and violent fluids
>slowly moving statues of humanoids with animal heads that can converse simple philosophical problems with who ever offers gifts into their open hands

>>50695050
Statues, perhaps? Think the White Witch.

File: Cultist.jpg (20KB, 271x600px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 271x600px

>>50695050

>1d6 Occultist Courtyards
>1; Eighteen wooden poles arranged in a circle. Each has a coil of rope around its base.
>2; Grassy, uneven ground. Underneath is a mass grave, more bodies the deeper you go. The bodies are human on the top, but get much worse as you go down.
>3; Raw dirt that smells like ozone. During a full moon, a flickering doorway appears that leads to another realm.
>4; Dusty pieces of furniture, old sewing wheels, boxes and priceless trinkets and artifacts litter the ground, as though there was something far more important to be stored in the attics and basements of the castle.
>5; Inner moat with a miniature castle. The baron built his castle around it to siege the tiny castle, and they've almost given up.
>6; Huge furry beast, staked down with ropes and its bile routinely harvested from a calcified abscess on its belly. It cries black tears and looks at all who come across it as if begging for mercy.

>>50695132
This got me thinking about Clark Ashton Smith's story The Maze of The Enchanter.

I might have to go full bizarre with this.

I plan on starting a game with an old group. I'm looking for a system that isn't too much a fuss to run, specially since that'd be my first time GMing. Some fairly simple that is preferably focused on dungeon crawling and still somewhat crunchy. Is this the right place or am I better off with a more modern system?

>>50696075
Any of the systems mentioned up thread would do. Moldvay Basic, ACKS, Swords & Wizardry, Beyond the Wall, etc.

>>50696075
B/X
Labyrinth Lord
Dungeon Crawl Classics
Swords and Wizardry
Basic Fantasy

Pretty much anything that gets mentioned often.

>>50696075
Depends what part of the crawl you want to focus on. If it is the exploration side, then this is the place for you! If you want a combat focus, maybe a more modern game.

Now, what kind of crunch are you looking for?

Gonzo, random tables, big criticals and wild magic crunch? Try Dungeon Crawl Classics.

Economy, base building, realm managing and some light player building crunch? Try Adventurer Conqueror King System

Modern iteration of B/X? Lamentations of the Flame Princess.

>>50696075
>>50696129
I would recommend Moldvay Basic. It's a very tidy set of rules. Make sure you use morale rules though as they really shouldn't be optional.

>>50696129
>>50696141
>>50696150
>>50696163
Thanks, I'll take a look. Guess I'll check out Dungeon Crawl Classics, Swords & Wizardry and Moldvay Basic first

>>50696075
Just grab Swords and Wizardry or Labyrinth lord.

Not that anon but what's a good system if I want to run a game that's a decent balance of gritty dungeon crawl with modernish style non-combat roleplaying - like exploring, political sorts of situations with diplomacy and whatnot. Lots of these osr systems seem to favor the dungeon crawl aspect the most.

So I'm converting to LotFP. Do people really not use a bestiary for this game? What bestiaries do you use, if any?

>>50696254
I play a lot of LotFP. If I need monsters, I just make them up. Doesn't take long, and I guess I've just memorized a lot of monsters from other systems and convert them on the fly.

You can use a lot of bestiaries though - the rulebook talks about it, if I recall.

>>50696254
Raggi expects people to make up their own monsters but you can use any bestiary that you like.

>>50696252
Depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for a mechanical solution, I don't know any good unified mechanic in the OSR.

If you are looking for more inspirational / verisimilitude solutions; LotFP has a great bit on hireling cost and stuff like what kind of quarters they require and ACKS has amazing rules regarding realm and domain structures.

Usually OSR games tend to focus on exploration in a dungeon / wilderness, so I'm not sure what kind of rules you are missing there?

I don't know if this is the good place to ask, but, what can you tell me about Castles & Crusades? I know it isn't straight retro-clone but is somewhat similiar in feel

>>50696254
The Basic Fantasy RPG monster stats probably work well.

>>50696252
ACKs has a lot of domain management aspects. But if your looking for persuasion checks to see whether or not the PCs failed at speaking to the baron, then that's not really how OSR is normally played.

Question about Into the Odd - having only read the rulebook, I really rather like the premise of this game, but... Why the fuck is armor so worthless? Either kind, with or without shield is only good for 1 point of damage reduction in a game where damage can be anything between d4 to d20. It's not even one die-size reduction! I get that the mechanics try to disincentivise just standing there and trading damage, but that single goddamned point of armor is just fucking negligible, might as well exclude armor completely. Am I missing something?

>>50696252
If you're looking for an osr game that has a decent amount of built in social and political complications the characters are based on, take a look at Beyond The Wall. Character generation involves constructing the town the game starts in and creates more backdrop to fuck with. It also has some really cool sort-of modules that can be included into a campaign that work similarly.

>>50696384
Curious about this too. Reading through it seems like it'd be a pretty versatile system. Would love some opinions from anyone who's actually played or run it.

>>50696384

Scan the previous thread, there was some detailed discussion of C&C there.

File: 1465142199538.jpg (110KB, 524x800px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 524x800px

I remember someone sketching on a mighty deed mechanic for LotFP or other retroclones a couple threads back. Does anyone have a link/screencap to it? Was it ever expanded upon?

Also I asked >>50692191 a couple hours ago so I'll ask again in case anyone might have an idea.

File: retro comp2 titled.png (4MB, 5028x2288px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 5028x2288px

>>50696384
>>50696959
Posts about C&C from last thread:
>>50669901
>>50670090

>>50696254
CHeck out Lusus Naturae. That's a sort of LotFP Monster Manual. I think it was born out of Raggi facepalming after saying Rafael Chandler that no, he shouldn't use LotFP as a base for Teratic Tome, because unique monsters and stuff.

Oh, also look at Teratic Tome, dude.

File: 1497 - woodcut - Ortus Santitas - Cynocephalus and dog.jpg (222KB, 540x695px) Image search: [Google]

222KB, 540x695px

>>50696254
>So I'm converting to LotFP. Do people really not use a bestiary for this game? What bestiaries do you use, if any?
Teratic Tome, New Petty Gods, Lusus Naturae, Random Esoteric Creature Generator, Narcosa, and I swipe freely from DCC and other modules that have interesting monster setups. Most of the Teratic Tome and Lus.Nat. stuff is set up as interlinked pseudo-pantheons, or as adventure hooks, rather than "encounters".

One thing - if the adventure calls for humanoids, I almost always replace them with humans, just other races. Goblins are usually semi-intelligent baboons/chimps/homonids. I throw in woodwoses (basically the European equivalent of Bigfoot), Neanderthals, and cynocephaloi (dog-men) occasionally, but it's more fun when the players are dealing with >actual< African/Arabian villages instead of "Orcs" that they can get away with murdering. Not that that stops them, of course. Just a little more guilt along the way. Oh, and having goblins be homonids or bonobos makes Goblin PCs an enormous amount of fun.

Finally, there's Jeff Reints' advice - when you can't think of anything off the top of your head, just use the stats for a bear and slap something fucked-up on top.


>>50697462
The thing with CSIO is that >no-one<, not even the people who wrote it, has any real idea of what the whole thing looks like.
The Ready Ref Sheets include a lot of foundational stuff from the early gazetteers, so if you want a starting point, that's a good one to get in print (especially since they apparently reprinted it briefly when the JG got resurrected). Other than that, just start reading. Vornheim is an attempt to reincarnate (if not re-create) the >feel< of a CSIO city, so it's also a fun tool to have.
But basically I'd say go into the Judges' Guild folder and flail around for a while until you find something you like.

>>50698301
>The thing with CSIO is that >no-one<, not even the people who wrote it, has any real idea of what the whole thing looks like.
Wait what? This raises so many questions. Is there a story behind that?
As for the rest, I guess I'll just check around the trove. If I wanted a physical map though, which one would be the best to get?

File: elf_clarke.jpg (209KB, 650x499px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 650x499px

>>50698301
Yes, I know that's a lion in the woodcut, I mislabeled it when I was sorting the other night.

One thing I'd avoid with LotFP is overusing the "easy" monsters - the published modules lean very heavily on undead, flesh golems, and animated statues. While they're very effective at times, they can lose their horror when you don't do anything else. It also feels a little cheap to go from "ho hum, another d12 orcs" to "ho-hum, another room full of statues GEE I WONDER HOW THIS WILL TURN OUT". I only use Undead or Fleshcrafting when the Duvan'Ku are directly involved, or when there's some pre-human sorcery afoot. At that point, it becomes a thematic cue, and can actually be more frightening because the players have been slowly unravelling some of their history. I also play straight pirate-hunting or mercenary intrigue adventures between the Weird getting involved. That ratchets up the tension a little when the PCs are starting a new adventure; think the start of Predator 2. There, it's actually a >relief< for the PCs to realize that an alien monster is doing all this fucked-up shit instead of other humans. Of course, then they have to deal with said monster..

File: Alcanta - Labyrith of Lost Children.jpg (782KB, 1067x1444px) Image search: [Google]

782KB, 1067x1444px

>>50698412
>Wait what? This raises so many questions. Is there a story behind that?
Short version: At least seven people wrote the original CSIO, each being roughly assigned to a region in the game world, but not interacting beyond a central document that the JG kept with basic story cues. They also had three editors, none of whom were tracking interaction between the modules and gazetteers particularly closely. The person with the best chance of actually knowing anything is probably Janelle (nee Paul) Jacquays, who was one of those editors and did a great deal of their writing in the early days.

The later CSIO incarnations had a little tighter editorial control, but IIRC the one in the D20 days never even got finished, and the Revised version was largely based on user input.

>>50698775
That's pretty interesting, I gotta say. Definitely gives it a very mythical quality.

>>50698775
>CSIO
You probably mean the Wilderness of High Fantasy as a whole rather than CSIO in particular - the city-state's a more focused product, I feel.

Also, only written by two guys.

>>50692191
The two big ones are the original and the d20 one, I guess, since the new one is in kickstarter hell.

Of those two I'd recommend the original, since while it's got some poor editing it's also way shorter and leaves more details open for you to fill in. Also, it actually has that neato dungeon map.

Oh, and I guess there's also the Mayfair version but I know fuck-all about it and haven't heard anything good about it?

>>50698049
>>50698301
Do we have Teratic Tome and Lusus Naturae in the trove?

File: Harry Clarke - Poe - Rue Morgue sepia.jpg (545KB, 900x1197px) Image search: [Google]

545KB, 900x1197px

>>50698999
>>50698904
Yeah, I meant the whole setting, not just the city-state. It does give it an interesting quality, especially since they were hovering between the OD&D stat system, the Perrin Conventions (proto Rune-Quest) and their own Universal Roleplay System in the early days. That's one of the reasons for the earliest revisions, they were dragging everything up into JGURPS stats and splitting off the RuneQuest/DQ line and D&D lines from the WHF/CSIO 'verse.

>>50688526
You're wrong. The Will and the Way supplementing Complete Psionics Handbook are the superior and only psionics system for 2E. Dale Donovan and Bill Slavicsek are excommunicate.

>>50687894
>>50687910
Black-cover books are excommunicate along with their authors. You'll find that the Combat-related book is more "good" but in fact it was a way to beta test rules using cheap binding process, making money while also getting ready for 3E. No black-cover book is actually 2E rules.

After all, they printed "new" PHB and DMG with no changes other than layout...AND then also added a single rule whereby dual-classing / the character with more than one class can no longer have classes combined that are dupes of the 4 main class types, of which they must only switch from.

This makes the rules themselves broken and therefore cannot be a rule. How can we have so m many examples of dual-classed psionicist / otherclass if a psionicic can NEVER dual-class as per the assertions of the black-cover PHB? A monk can never dual-class to a cleric because both are a Priest character class? It's completely bogus and contradicted many times throughout other core rules. Therefore both books are inferior compared to the original blue/black-plate printings.

Skills and Powers rules can make a character that advances like a cleric, has access to cleric spells, access to wizard spells, fighter bonuses / weapon specialization, and the ability to wear armor while busting wizard spells. Truly some genius work.

File: Harry Clarke - Poe - Feast .jpg (508KB, 900x1189px) Image search: [Google]

508KB, 900x1189px

>>50699147
>Do we have Teratic Tome and Lusus Naturae in the trove?
Yeah, in the Supplements>Bestiaries folders.

>>50690297
Bruce Heard himself (Mystara rules and areas creator) made rules for the rakasta as PC race type (with many subraces) so they're Official rules to look for also if you want cat-furries in your world.

>>50699393
Oh woops, yeah it's in Dragon 247 or thereabouts. Get that Dragon Magazine Archive in its original electronic format to go with those Complete books.

>>50699303
>excommunicate
Get a load of this nerd.

>>50699303
Not that Donovan or Slavicsek are bad in themselves or anything, they just know other RPG systems better. They came in "grok"ing that Marvel Superheroes and Star Wars d6, respectively. Slavicsek named the Ithorian and made other elements of the universe canon through the RPG. And it's OSR to boot.

>>50699411
They can produce no Canon if they're excommunicate.

File: Belgariad3.jpg (155KB, 647x940px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 647x940px

>>50699303
>The Will and the Way

Read that as Will and the Word and now I'm thinking how I can make a Belgariad-based campaign.

>>50699303
>This makes the rules themselves broken and therefore cannot be a rule.

Has this ever stopped anyone before?

File: Beardsley-peacockskirt.png (280KB, 620x848px) Image search: [Google]

280KB, 620x848px

>>50700294
I mean, shit, consider how long Rifts has been going, and you can't even legally make a fucking character in that game.

>>50700365
>consider how long Rifts has been going, and you can't even legally make a fucking character in that game.

DELETE THIS

>>50700529
Okay fine, I'll fix that post for you.
>I mean, shit, consider how long Rifts™ has been going, and you can't even legally make a fucking character in that game.

how do you manage skill challenges?

Just bought the reprinted 1e AD&D DMG. Did I do good?

>>50700927
Probably with a random diceroll or just a straight up ruling.

>>50701033

It's essentially the same, but with glossier paper and a different cover.

About the only thing I can say is hopefully you didn't pay full price for it. An old copy of the 1e DMG would work just as well, and is pretty cheap.

Hope it works out for you. I use mine quite a bit.

File: border.kingdoms.png (6MB, 2717x2278px) Image search: [Google]

6MB, 2717x2278px

Map of The Border Kingdoms, blank area in Empires of the Shining Sea boxed set though appears on map.

>>50697462
>I remember someone sketching on a mighty deed mechanic for LotFP or other retroclones a couple threads back. Does anyone have a link/screencap to it? Was it ever expanded upon?

That was me, and no, I haven't, at least to any sort of presentability. Unfortunately, I've been called in to work the past couple of days on top of having to work the next four, so any sort of real sit-down-and-think time has pretty much been most of today and stupid late at night workdays.

My biggest hurdle at the moment is figuring a way to make it compatible with the greater OSR scene. I mean, I know how it works in my own 3d6-based homebrew, but to make it usable in another system without it being clunky as fuck is the rub. I'm sure once I can think this through, I'll be able to make it work (and post it here), but as of now, nothing.

File: Kelvin-Green-Loot-Table-Extended-10-inch-DJ-Remix-by-Dyson-Logos_Page_1.jpg (622KB, 1600x1237px) Image search: [Google]

622KB, 1600x1237px

>>50700927
Depends on the game. OSR doesn't put emphasis on skills being a focus, outside of the thief.
- DCC uses DC checks: d20+Appropriate Mod over a DC (5=easy, 20=difficult.)
- BFRPG has optional Skill rules (lv. 1 rolls 1d20+Appropriate Mod over 17. This number descends each level.)
- The most simple is to just Roll d20 = or under the appropriate Ability Score.
- LotFP has a pretty simple but broad skill set.

Common skills, if you need them, would be something like:

Appraise (Int)
Arcana (Int)
>Architecture (Int)
Balance (Dex)
Bluff (Cha)
>Climb (Str/Dex)
Craft (Int)
>Decipher Script (Int)
Diplomacy (Cha)
>Disable Device (Int)
Disguise (Cha)
Escape Artist (Dex)
>Force Door (Str)
Forgery (Int)
Handle Animal (Cha)
Heal (Wis)
>Hide (Dex)
Intimidate (Cha)
Jump (Dex)
Knowledge (Int)
Listen (Wis)
Move Silently (Dex)
>Open Lock (Dex)
Perform (Cha)
>Search (Int)
Sense Motive (Wis)
>Sleight of Hand (Dex)
>Survival (Wis)

All the greentext are part of LotFPs skill system (generally a 1 in 6 chance for everyone to try. A Specialist/Thief puts points into these as they level.)

File: 01 - Cover2.png (389KB, 1740x2490px) Image search: [Google]

389KB, 1740x2490px

Just sharing my Thief-based RPG in the works again. Always looking for some feedback or input.

>https://www.docdroid.net/GtTDks6/trm-sample.pdf.html

>>50701033
>>50701133
Pardon my ignorance, but is there any reason why AD&D is never really mentioned when people come looking for systems? I've been lurking the threads for awhile and there's always tons of other recommendations and I'm curious why that is. As I understand it B/X came about because original D&D was pretty tough to learn just on your own, so they made the basic version to help younger people learn. Meanwhile AD&D was designed as an improvement for those who played OD&D. These days a lot of us who've played any amount of tabletop should have the basics down and AD&D wouldn't be that much of a hassle to learn, I'd think.

Is there any reason why 1e wouldn't be completely fine for someone looking to play an OSR game? I see lots of older people still running it at cons and game events. Just curious why retroclones exist for the most part anyway.

>>50701856
It's a fine game, but for a lot of us it also...just has too many rules. It's meticulousness and comprehensiveness is almost a fault.

>>50701825
Did you forget to include the list of things Thieves can do? All I see is a can't list.

It sounds like it'd be fun, but I'd need to try running it to really get any worthwhile feedback to offer

>>50680711
More correctly, in Chainmail the missile fire happens, then the movement and melee, and archers not in the shit get to fire again. Which is implicitly how it's supposed to work in OD&D too.

But I'm a fuckin' nerd.

>>50689241
I went back to Metamorphosis Alpha and Gamma World 1e, personally.

>>50701948
Are you talking about the skill section?

>>50701948
Nevermind. I'm an idiot and missed the joke. Whoooosh

>>50702188
I was trying to make a shitt joke about Thieves Cant

>>50701856

My biggest grip with AD&D is how it handles ability scores. They're all over the map, you have to write down a ton of little fiddly things about them, and the made Dex and Str too strong.

There's other problems (some of them are just my tastes clashing with the game mechanics, like secondary skills/non-weapon proficiencies), but for the most part, AD&D 1e is fine for OSR style games. It's a little more powerful, has more fiddly bits, and has more options out of the gate, though whether or not those options or worth having is another issue entirely.

OSR really exists because its a simple way of playing D&D, hearkens back to the dungeon and wilderness exploration/resource management/looting roots, and its more deadly (and therefore more meaningful as a game, since there's a lose state).

It's a reaction away from modern games, really.

>>50701856
AD&D becomes a bit of a mess in certain parts, and it seems that people here and in other parts of the OSR feel that it is much easier to start with Basic D&D and add in whatever they want rather than start with AD&D and remove whatever they don't want.

OSRIC is great toilet reading though. I'm not sure about actually playing it, but it's a good read.

>>50701856
AD&D 1e has lots of fiddly bits.
AD&D 2e added even more fiddly bits with a healthy serving of splat bloat. AD&D 2e still has some great fluff and fiddly bits though to be honest.

File: John Bateman - King Lear - Madness Enthroned.jpg (785KB, 1280x1557px) Image search: [Google]

785KB, 1280x1557px

>>50701856
The way 1e AD&D is written, it's less a complete "system" than it is a set of modular rules-chunks that you can drop into your OD&D/Basic game. I know literally no-one, in almost thirty years of playing, who has ever used 1e AD&D in its entirety. There's just too much shit in the book to be playable. Moreover, a lot of it is kludged-on rulings and fixes for unique situations that happened in-play, or just random inspirational crap (like the gems and magic section) that yields little gamable material.

The OSR has a strong emphasis on shit that >works<. So we might well loot cool things from 1e AD&D, even use its classes and basic charts, but most of us play heartbreakers that have the elements we like from an older game and dump the rest of the crufty chunks that we don't give a damn about. The NPC tables, for example, are cool. But they give me only a little gameable content for a huge-ass investment of time, on something that my PCs are like-as-not to kill within minutes, ignore, or otherwise obviate. Why should I have to go through a ten-minute process to see <how> avaricious this random whore is when the information I <need> is mostly in her Reaction roll and maybe a couple of relevant stats?

So does anyone know if the guy who's working on Lamentations of the Prom Queen has a website or anything? I'm really interested in what the final product is going to be.

What exactly makes Lamentations of the Flame Princess weird? Seems to me it's pretty standard OSR stuff, and then all the weirdness come from modules.

File: MM4.jpg (30KB, 196x283px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 196x283px

Mazes & Minotaurs has intrigued me for a couple of years now. Has any anon on /osrg/ ever played it? I'd love to hear the thoughts and opinions of those who have.

>>50702969
That's exactly it.

>>50702969
You pretty well nailed it.

The spell lists have a bit of "weird fiction" flavor about them, and the lack of a bestiary is meant to encourage DMs to come up with their own unique monsters that will surprise players (rather than simply teaching them troll=kill with fire, werewolf = kill with silver, etc).

The early modern setting sets a different tone, and then there's the art of course.

>>50702969

>>50703109
>>50703115

This. That's honestly why its good. It's the solid foundation that the weirdness rests on. And if you don't want the weirdness, you're not required to amputate parts of the system.

From a couple threads ago an Anon posted an idea about rolling 3d6 on an attack and using that vs AC instead of a d20, taking doubles as skillful extra combat moves fighters can do.

While interesting, the sharper and less variable curve of the 3d6 offers less results and makes AC either too good or too weak.

Why not have a similar system that uses 2d10? This way instead, it keeps the same range but of 2 to 20, and make it so any pair counts as an extra combat move. That way there's a 10% flat chance you can do it.

Any thoughts on this? I also had the idea to give Fighters +1 bonus d10 attack die per round per level. This way they could blow 3-4 of them on one enemy to guarantee a hit and have the best chance of doing a combat move, but they could also split them up against multiple enemies as their form of bonus attacks.

>>50703270
>>50703109
>>50703115
just not really seeing why I should use it, as opposed to any other game.
I'm getting much more from just reading modules for inspiration.

File: John Yunge Bateman - King Lear - Beset by five fiends.jpg (705KB, 1280x1555px) Image search: [Google]

705KB, 1280x1555px

>>50703523
>just not really seeing why I should use it, as opposed to any other game.

• The Encumbrance system
• the Summon spell
• The Retainer rules
• Specialists.
• Interesting healing mechanics
• various interesting spells hidden in the list, like Strange Waters, Howl of the Moon, and Bookspeak.
• Immediate support for sea-going adventure (even if that's incomplete).

That's about it, as far as the basic rules go. It plays simply and cleanly, the artless version is up for free, and the manufacturing quality of the books themselves is excellent.

>>50703522
I personally wouldn't use it.

You can never roll a 1, and I don't see that it offers anything worth the sacrifice of the flat probability of a d20. The attack bonus does a decent enough job of weighting the probability.

I'm open to being convinced, but both options just seem like mechanical fiddling to no real benefit.

>>50703523
Nothing wrong with that. It's essentially a houseruled version of Basic D&D, which was released strictly to establish an independent IP for publishing bizarre modules and supplements.

If the house rules don't appeal to you, just use Labyrinth Lord or whatever you like.

I will say, I like LotFP for making the fighter pretty bad ass, making the specialist more interesting than the usual thief, and I think the magic user's laboratory and item crafting rules can make for a really fun minigame. The MU sucks pretty hard unless you invest in making wands and scrolls, and that requires building a library and lab, which requires the PC to establish a base rather than murderhobo at random.

>friends are too busy to ever play anything
>FLGS only has Pathfinder minmax groups
>CST means Roll20 games are either too late or too early

What's the term for someone who's neither player nor forever DM?

>>50703849
faggot

or brother ;_;

>>50703707
>I personally wouldn't use it.

That's fine, I was just spitballing an idea.

For starters, having extra combat moves really spices up the fighter, and it just so happens that my literal years old homebrew has a save system where fighters get bonuses to combat saves, so it works out well for that sort of system. By giving it a random chance of happening it prevents it from being a 'sacrifice an attack' sort of thing, so it either becomes something you get randomly when you make an attack for an extra powerful attack or sometimes if you miss making up for your miss.

The other idea of using multiple dice and a bell curve means less fiddling with AC and less AC annoyance. Honestly if you give an enemy +2 AC, it's literally just a 10% chance difference of hitting or not. I don't mind d20 attack rolls but they feel somewhat slanted in that way.

Secondly, giving multiple dice is also fun as I said for the mechanics that let you fuck around with dice that I like. Instead of giving Fighters an extra attack every other level, why not give them something that's as good as half an attack every level and let them work that shit out themselves? I like the concept of that anyway.

Maybe you think it's just a pointless addition or change, but I think it's interesting and makes little sparkles light up in my brain.

How many classes (and/or kits) do you guys make available to players?

>>50704674
7. No more, no less. Established at random before play.

>>50703849
I believe that "A total fucking loser" is a correct term.

Alternatively, "me"

>>50703522
While I like the idea of 2d10 in theory, my reasoning is a much, much lazier reality. You see, even with D&D and polyhedral dice being fucking hugely popular, fact is the d6 is just still more widely known. You ask any normie how many sides a die has, they'll tell you "6", though a good amount will add a clarification about those "weird dice from D&D". Most board games that use dice still use 6-siders, and shit like Monopoly and Risk are about as popular as ever. Hell, you can hit Walmart or even a fuckin' dollar store and pick up a pack of 5 or so on the cheap.

Truth of the matter is I'm going with d6s for my homebrew because they're just easier to come by. There might be some desire to move away from the D&D style as I really fucking hate the d20 system and all of the taint that it's brought with it (Ivory Tower design, splatbook bloat to make 2e blush, the fact it's THIRTEEN FUCKING YEARS AND TWO AND A HALF EDITIONS LATER AND STILL NOT FUCKING DEAD, etc).

In the beginning, though, it was all out of sheer laziness.
More I couldn't find my dice bag and had to raid my board games.

So what do you OSR Gents think of the Microlite OSR series? I recently downloaded Microlite84 but haven't sat down and read it thoroughly yet.

>>50704674
depends on the system, like if I were running ACKS I'd allow all the classes in the Core Book, and pretty much any of the Player's Companion classes as well(although some of the more Auran Empire setting reliant classes in both books would need refluffing and/or renaming)

but then I'm one of those people who prefer giving players as wide an array of options as possible(as long as it's appropriate to the setting, with or without refluffing/renaming as needed), although I do try to make sure that there's at least one fighting class and one class capable of healing in the party

>>50705200
I'm a fan of it, especially of Microlite 74(particularly when using most of the supplements with it, which gives you a lot of options while still remaining fairly light)

>>50705184
>Truth of the matter is I'm going with d6s for my homebrew because they're just easier to come by.
How are they any harder to come by? Sure you aren't gonna find them out often, but there's soooooo many dice you can get online even through amazon

>>50705184

The commonness and popularity of the dice is irrelevant as using pure d6 dice in large numbers just creates very steep and boring probability curves.

Unless you use a dice pool system or something, which I doubt anyone does here. That would be a sight to behold.

>>50705459
I'm just saying, you gotta go out of your way (even if only a bit, depending upon where your closest FLGS is) to pick up polyhedral dice. Fucking EVERYONE has d6s. For fuck's sake, before she passed my grandmother had a good handful of 6-sided dice in her apartment, and she wasn't much of a gambler outside of the bingo nights. Long and short of it is, I'm too lazy to change it, so fight me nerd.

>>50705468
>using pure d6 dice in large numbers
>in large numbers
Whoa there, nigga. I never said anything about large numbers, unless by "large" you mean "3". I can use anydice as much as anyone, I know how the probability curve levels out with more dice (i.e. like shit). I'm not shooting for shadowrun levels of dice, so no need to get your panties in a bunch.

>>50705200
God, that's still around? I remember the system before Drebitko took over back in 2010. Microlite20 was neat enough for what it did, but there were a lot of flaws, that M20 Revised still has baked in. Never did get around to reading any of the OSR spinoffs, but I've heard that m74 is fairly close to the LBB style of play without being obtuse by way of being written in High Gygaxian. Might have to sit down and read through one of these days.

I'm thinking about shitting out a homebrew. Should I go with race-as-class (including a Human class) or race-and-class (excluding demihumans)?

>>50704674
Fighter
Thief
Cleric
Mage

>>50706250
>race-as-class

Is best IMO. Each class should be a strong archetype.

>>50699941
>Read that as Will and the Word
Me too.

>and now I'm thinking how I can make a Belgariad-based campaign.
Now you've got me interested in that.

>>50705468
>>50705938
When me and my friends were in like elementary school we used to play what we called "D&D" by using the (surprisingly large amount of) rules included in the original Baldur's Gate manual and handfuls of d6s that we used to use full-retard math to make emulate the number ranged we wanted.

I think the stupid way we emulated a d20 was 4d6 and if you rolled over 20 you counted back around from one. So a roll of 22 counted as a 2.

We had like zero concept of probability back then...

>>50701664
This sort of thing is a good candidate for Trollgods. Something like a curated best of /osrg/ section.

>>50706548
There hasn't been word from Trollgods in five months. Has there been any confirmation in /osrg/ that it's still active?

Even if it is, a twice-yearly zine is kinda.. Lackluster.

File: sidney_sime - Devil Dancing.jpg (382KB, 1032x1387px) Image search: [Google]

382KB, 1032x1387px

>>50704674
Savage (Dwarf-replacement), Specialist, Sorceror (AKA Magic-user), Slayer (Fighters), and Templar (Cleric) (I treat them like Paladins socially; Priests are something different and a profession rather than a class).

I've tacked on bit more in the way of skills than LotFP usually uses, but fundamentally there's not much that those don't cover. Interestingly, I get mostly Savages and Specialists in my parties; out of some thirty characters so far only one Cleric, one M-U, and three Fighters. I've also allowed one player to do a "Goblin" PC (see the above comment about trained apes), which was bloody hilarious. If someone asked, I'd allow an Alice/Jack, Changeling/Elf, DCC/Last-Gasp style Warlock, or other weirdo shit, but really it hasn't come up. I kinda roll with what the players are interested in. Hell, my first game had a centaur and a ratman in the party, and I've run weirder.

So Stars Without Number is getting a second edition. It's going to be classless but yet backwards compatible somehow, with ascending AC. I'm a bit disappointed that the elegant Target 20 system is being dropped and with the move away from BX. The character creation system does seem interesting, though.

Here are some of the drafts:

Stars Without Number Revised Character Creation v0.4
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LOtolE8aWQdPDRAK3UYOmClpB0f4mAswBifxqq-Uhvo/edit#

Stars Without Number Revised Psionics Draft 1.0
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ritz1i_vxs6ZKJ4PwPid4cvoj-BF4glgbC6A7d0Orho/edit#heading=h.9ch4xe75jg9i

>>50706250

I can never decide if I want to run a semi-high fantasy totally-not-Dungeon-Meshi BFRPG game with the classic 4 races and classes, or a moody, atmospheric humans only LL/LotfP game that'll really make the strangeness of monsters and dungeons stand out.

>>50706710
I'm not a fan. I think the old class system worked perfectly fine.

>>50700927
Roleplaying and a generic dice roll if needed.

>>50704674
Three. Fighting-Man, Magic-User and Cleric.

File: Fighter, Mage, Thief.jpg (30KB, 396x267px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 396x267px

>>50707146

>Magic User and Cleric

The fuck? Why not Warrior, Thief, Mage? Literally best three combo. Clerics and mages are already stepping on each others toes a bit. Use the perfect trifecta.

I'm looking for a system that can handle post-apocalyptic science fantasy, with magic and tech, but is also fairly concise in design like OSR games tend to be.

Any suggestions?

>>50707207

Why not make one? Literally the only way you are going to get a setting with rules just to your liking.

>>50707181
Because thief is a self-justifying non-class that makes games worse. Adding a thief and by extension a skill system is a mistake.

Clerics and MUs are completely different. Cleric is a good fighter whereas MU can't fight for shit. Cleric is also the only class that can cast healing spells.

>>50707232
I'm not confident in my own skills as a game designer

>>50707207
Pretty much any OSR/original system can handle this with ease. That being said you have to make the content yourself because I don't think a ready-made game that fits your description exists.

>>50707284
>Adding a thief and by extension a skill system is a mistake.

I disagree. In the same way that you can't 100% referee the subtle and very vital act of combat, you can't also totally rule 0 the act of lockpicking and other form of thievery either. There should be mechanics in place beyond success or failure, there is nothing wrong with a skill system in the same sense there is nothing wrong with having a low level fighter having less attacks and attack bonus then a higher level one. It covers an otherwise absent archetype from the game. Not only does everybody acknowledge the triangle of classes, but they each exhibit a role and usefulness that isn't just minor number changes. The Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard are the quintessential fantasy archetypes if you like it or not.

>Clerics and MUs are totally different
Yeah, in the same way MUs and Sorcerers are different, or the Fighter and Barbarian. They both cast spells and they don't even use different fucking mechanics for spellcasting, it's all vancian spell level shit. Clerics are just spellcasters fluffed to be supports and given fighting abilities to make them feel less shitty. Clerics should be rolled absolutely into MUs, let the MU decide if he wants to prepare healing and support spells instead of arbitrarily creating this divide.

>>50707628
>Yeah, in the same way MUs and Sorcerers are different
This is simply and completely incorrect. Cleric is a good fighter, MU is not. That's a fundamental difference.

>It covers an otherwise absent archetype from the game.
In my opinion that archetype does not need to exist. All existing classes can do sneaky stuff already. Picking locks, detecting and removing traps, climbing. All that can be attempted by all classes. Now if you add in a thief whose exclusive responsibility is to do that stuff and tie it to a skill system only available to the thief, it effectively relegates those normal dungeon exploration procedures to a, like I said, self-justifying archetype.

I don't care what is considered quintessential. All I'm interested in is what makes a good game.

>>50707181
Because symmetry, balance and order is overrated. I'd rather have 10 classes than just those three.

File: 3 wands pyramid.jpg (53KB, 500x625px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 500x625px

How much would I *ruin* OSR by requiring Wizards to use wands?

I really like the idea of every Wizard using a wand to cast spells, and encourage players to customize their own wands and give personality to them, or have them randomly drop on enemies or even generated randomly on a table.

>>50708170
If you change spellbook requirement to wand requirement, it probably won't be too bad. How do you make sense of rules for making staffs and wands at higher level though?

>>50708229

I personally don't use them. I'd prefer scrolls, potions, or better yet just random items with a certain number or unlimited number of magical uses instead of a 'wand' being used as a magical gun as it so often is done.

Creating a wand is a mystical process that takes time and effort, and a wand is not something you can or should be able to replace easily if it gets stolen or broken.

>>50708290
In that case I don't see anything wrong with just replacing the spellbook with a wand. If you want both then it might be a bit trickier for players as they now need two things to keep track of.

Does anyone have any experience with Grey Six? Is it just E6 for OSR or what?

>>50705938
>I never said anything about large numbers, unless by "large" you mean "3"

Yeah you only really need 2

>>50707207
Fantastic Heroes & Witchery would probably be your best bet off the top of my head, only real issue is that you'd need to get your monsters from somewhere else as FH&W doesn't have a monster section, and it's dedicated monster manual won't be happening for another year or two in all likelihood

>>50707207
Mutant Future?
One of the many Black Hack derivatives?

>>50705468
>Unless you use a dice pool system or something, which I doubt anyone does here. That would be a sight to behold.
Torchbearer's a pretty damn neat system, having just read through it. I'm honestly pretty hyped for the advanced/expert rulebook, whenever that comes out.

Also, of course, there's a bunch of peeps out there looking into using Chainmail mass combat with OD&D. Now, I personally don't think it works out too well for various somewhat complicated reasons - mostly to do with fantastic critters and how to deal with armor/weapons - but that's just my opinion.

But it's really not too difficult to just, say, convert OD&D directly to a dice pool system. It could probably speed up high-level combat, to be honest, but you might not want that since it could easily turn very lethal and high-lethality combat comes at a detriment to player agency (e.g. if you can die in a single round, it's harder to be able to actually flee from unbeatable fights.)

>>50707207
Depending on what exactly you want, OD&D might be able to handle it. I'd say "weirdly enough", but it's kind of a given what with The Dying Earth being such an inspiration and whatnot.

Tech would probably mostly be relegated to "magic" items and creatures, I suppose - but then you're more in a Metamorphosis Alpha-esque "the players are ignorant far-future neo-barbarians who believe the lost miracles of technology to be magic" thing where they don't actually run into much of that stuff themselves.

>>50707207
Gamma World 2e. Refluff mental mutations as magic.

>>50707207
Mutant Crawl Classics will come out (relatively) soon. Maybe that?

File: CUBM 1.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>50707207
Use DCC and the fanzine 'Crawling Under a Broken Moon'.

How are the new LotFP adventures?

>>50706796

I dunno, I kinda felt the Warrior was just about useless outside of combat, which is bad enough in fantasy, but worse in a sci-fi game where skills are so important.

Is there any articles or whatever that talks about the favored diet of Europeans through the different centuries? It might be cool to see that one year they got way into fish, and 100 years later it was more about bread and cheese.

>>50711236
This sounds like the subject of a GURPS splat.

File: 8275289-christmas-girl-thumbs-down.jpg (97KB, 533x800px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 533x800px

Alright buttholes, I'm running a game for some first-timers tonight. 0 tabletop experience.

I can't decide if I should run BFRPG (for its old-school feel and extra options), LotFP (for it's simplicity) or DCC (for its gonzo fun). Help a guy out here.

>>50711367
I'd either recommend DCC or BFRPG with the Tumbler splat.

>>50711399
Tumbler splat?

>>50711367
I've only run LotFP (out of your options) for total noobs and it works pretty well, better than B/X did (ascending AC seems with attack bonuses appears to be more intuitive).

>>50711367
I really dig LotFP for newbies. It's really easy to make some pregen character sheets with only a few details to fill in and then roll from there.

File: Level-0 Character Tumbler OGL.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>50711416
An OGL version of the Funnel.

>>50706710

Oh, I like this a lot. This could be seamlessly integrated into other games without trouble, and make classes even more distinct as a result.

I'm a big fan of more options for players while still maintaining that quick play feeling, so this is fantastic for me.

>>50711367

I would use either LotFP or BFRPG. In fact, BFRPG is how I introduced my nieces to D&D.

I would have used LotFP, but I wanted to let them have race separate from class, and their dad was playing, who is really reluctant to try anything outside of the 3e/PF mold.

>>50709542
Anyone?

File: DSWalker-boywhoknewwhatbi00coluuoft_0121-600.jpg (127KB, 500x741px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 500x741px

>>50710643
Which ones?
Broodmother: Messy, silly, dangerous as all fuck, and instead of holding the >potential< for an apocalypse, it opens with one. Also you can kill Odin.
Cursed Chateau: Jimmy M. re-revises the classic with art by the guy who did Scenic Dunnsmouth. Tighter, spookier, more Satanism. (in the Trove)
Blood in the Chocolate: Still waiting for my hardcopy to get here.

Thirding for BFRPG. Give them some pre-made character sheets and just tell them what to roll.

File: 9by8v59b8y.png (148KB, 500x330px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 500x330px

>>50701825
This is awesome! Going to run this for my new group this weekend. They're pretty new to tabletop, so they're still giddy about being able to steal, sneak around, and basically do whatever they want in a tabletop RPG. They'll get a kick out of this for sure.

One question - on the Vocations page, should it be 3 points that are distributed when creating a custom vocation? The PDF says 4, but all of the examples total 3 points.

File: voc.png (303KB, 982x845px) Image search: [Google]

303KB, 982x845px

>>50712766
4 points if doing a custom build. The 'prebuild' vocations distribute 3 points and tell you to add 1 more wherever you'd like.

>>50712838
Thanks! I'm a tard! :D

>>50707787
>Picking locks, detecting and removing traps, climbing.
Not that anon, but why the heck would a warrior or magician know how to do any of those things? It's not even remotely part of their training or profession.

>>50713060

It falls under the umbrella of "adventurer". OSR generally assumes characters are competent at normal adventuring tasks, whether that be tying ropes, riding horses, or yes, picking locks. The Thief is really just a super-specialist with a level of guy instinct the other classes don't have.

And I like it this way. Extensive skill lists and arbitrary sectioning off of the rules are among the paving stones that lead to modern game conventions.

>>50713103

*gut instinct, rather

>>50713060
Depends entirely on backstory you come up with. It's no unlikely a soldier would be exposed to those sorts of tasks. Not all magic-users are going to be frail old men either.

Having rigid X-class can only use certain abilities/be trained in certain tasks is min/max thinking and plagues modern games too much

>I'm frankensteining 5e, PF, BFRPG and LL at this very moment

MOM'S GONNA FREAK

File: pepsi.jpg (34KB, 633x629px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 633x629px

>>50713239
Mix in Rifts for character creation while you're at it

File: city of tomorrow sm.jpg (302KB, 500x640px) Image search: [Google]

302KB, 500x640px

Recc'd one-night adventures to run for a new group? Aside from Tower of the Stargazer? I wanna give them a dungeon crawl that has a bit of everything; combat, puzzles, traps etc and turn them onto RPGs.

>>50713467
Any particular system? Because I ran Nebin Pendleton's Perilous Pantry for DCC recently and it was a great little intro to tabeltop. Had some excellent traps, a little light on puzzles though.

File: 6969950_orig.png (208KB, 387x393px) Image search: [Google]

208KB, 387x393px

I wanna run an adventure where a low-level party is trapped in a dungeon where the only monster is a Troll. Sort of like a combination between God that Crawls and a slasher movie. Interesting idea, y/n?

>>50713534
Probably Basic Fantasy RPG cause it has all the bonus class options and such. I like it's simplicity too.

>>50713368

>asks for a pepsi
>institutionalized

Hey, normal people don't be actin' like that.

>>50713547
Might be cool. Reminds me of an an adventure once where we were in the dungeon for a few days - specifically there was a section of the dungeon that had such an enormous staircase it took two full days to climb, I think it was something magical. Anyway, whenever the party would rest and get some sleep they'd get harassed by this really annoying monster that was stalking us. He wouldn't even attack, just dance around in the shadows singing horrible and generally being obnoxious and preventing us from resting. It was a lot of fun.

>>50713547
Remember that 90% of PC's solutions to problems involves fire and you should be fine.

>>50713547
A wizard has constructed a small labyrinth. He has set up a number of doors that he can control from his tower, and uses a scrying orb along with small crystals littered throughout the labyrinth to watch as adventurers stumble about, hounded by a troll that he has enslaved.

File: Errol le Cain - twisting halls.jpg (599KB, 1280x941px) Image search: [Google]

599KB, 1280x941px

>>50713467
My go-to is the Farmstead mini-dungeon in Better than Any Man. It's pretty good for a short one-shot, with some horror, some puzzling, and some serious danger if you're stupid. Tales of the Scarecrow is also fucking great if your players are a bit sadistic, but maybe not the best straight-up introduction. Especially since it screws one class over and it WILL be a TPK if they don't figure out the puzzle.

With some tuning of damage and monster stats, you could also use The Tower Out of Time from DCC, or meld some of the puzzles and atmosphere with Stargazer. Then again, I have an unhealthy fondness for running games with Valusian Serpent-men conspiracies, so YMMV.

Sorta-new GM questions related to monsters/NPCs using spells in White Box -
1: How isn't Sleep consistently a TPK against any low-level party that gets in range?
2: Given that Charm Person (and Charm Monster) basically just take away control of PC(s), how do you make that not un-fun?

>>50713547
While that could be neat, you'll need to prepare for the eventuality that the players will manage to kill the troll and be left with an empty dungeon. Or that the troll will go all slasher-villain in a single battle and kill 'em all really early on.

I mean, seriously. To use B/X stats:
>AC4
>6+4HD (~25hp)
>120' (40')
>1d6/1d6/1d10

It's almost certainly as fast or faster than the PCs, does enough damage to level a third-level PC in a single round, and has a THAC2 of 11 (50%). (And THAC9 of 4+(85%), if you feel like mulching magic-users.)

But it also gets hit 25% of the time by first-bracket PCs, and can only take five hits by decent-ish weapons. (That's down to 40% and three hits with 18 STR, so it varies a bit.)
With lucky hits, the party could conceivably beat it in a single round - but if it survives someone will die.

Also, while it regenerates from death unless you burn the corpse, well, fire is the one thing low-level adventurers should always have plenty of. Torches, y'know. Continual Light takes over at higher levels, but if you're low level there's little else.

>>50714017
>Given that Charm Person (and Charm Monster) basically just take away control of PC(s), how do you make that not un-fun?
You don't have to take away control.
Just tell them that their best friend Mr. Cultist is being attacked by evil ruffians and he needs your help.

>>50714159
>>50714017
Just impose XP penalties if they act in any way that doesn't obey the charm spell.

They might get creative about the wording of said charm spell too, which is always amusing.

>>50714159

Or that his best friends are fighting and somebody's going to get hurt if he doesn't stop them.

>>50714031
Maybe he should make it into an iron-troll? It's a bit slower than humans (25'?) and it can only be killed by smelting it down. If you make weapons with it then they become magic in some way. Also maybe there should be a smelter or lava or something somewhere in the dungeon but the troll is too smart to follow the PCs in there.

>>50714214
Yeah, but at that point why bother making it a troll rather than just The God That Crawls (or, well, something else unique to the dungeon)?

Go with a new custom-made "Saturday Night Special" monster, to use M.A.R. Barker's term, and you won't have to bother with metagaming, either.

>>50714284
I guess, but maybe he just wanted to have a monster that looks like to a troll? He's kind of already breaking the rules for trolls since they usually don't hang around in a dungeon by themselves.

>>50714373
Make it a slug troll or something weird.

Slimy with massive feelers and eyestalks. Resistant to fire, but requires water every 4 hours or something.

>>50714373
>a monster that looks like to a troll?
D&D trolls are literally just big gangly green humanoids. There's not really much to them.

File: pumpkinhead-horror-review-2.jpg (195KB, 1200x796px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 1200x796px

>>50714458
Yeah, but it also looks like some kind of slasher-movie monster. Like Pumpkinhead. He did write that he wanted the adventure to be a slasher.

Updated (missed a page [p. 42]). This is every Everwinking Eye article from Polyhedron Newszine, comprising 184 pages of Forgotten Realms detail.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/5s2cc6

154.39MB

>>50714526
Speaking of slasher movies, they could also just lift a monster directly from one. Have the players literally fight a slasher villain - that could be fun.

It's not like that hasn't been done before, really - D&D is awash with monsters and magical items taken from other media. The Displacer Beast/Coeurl, various Hammer Horror beasties, IOUN stones...
Fuck, even Trolls are just grabbed straight from Three Hearts and Three Lions.

>>50714809

I've always wanted to use bugbears as slasher villains. Big hairy nightmare things that are surprisingly sneaky, and who live to terrify their victims before they kill them. The kind of thing that would follow a party for days, screwing with them, killing them one by one. Fingernails tapping on the glass, whispering in the dark. That kind of deal.

>>50714526
And you know, come to think of it, they did have the whole pumpkin-head thing going on in that early art.

>>50714880
>And you know, come to think of it, they did have the whole pumpkin-head thing going on in that early art.
Yeah, what the fuck was up with that? Was it just a miscommunication, or what? (One fun example of that would be the MtG card "Hyalopterous Lemure", where they took a Lemure (a ghost of sorts) and drew, well, a Lemur (the monkey-like mammal native to Madagascar).)

Speaking of which, I remember seeing a miniature of a pumpkin-headed bugbear. It was pretty neat.

experiences with torchbearer? pros and cons?

File: Francisco_de_Goya,_Saturno_devorando_a_su_hijo_(1819-1823).jpg (546KB, 1616x2889px) Image search: [Google]

546KB, 1616x2889px

>>50714031
>>50714214
That's the point; I want a monster that's dangerous to the PCs but with some smart thinking they can survive. The party would only have the limited supplies it carries in and the dungeon itself would be partially flooded in many places, limiting the amount of flammables available and giving plenty of hiding places for a troll ambush.

>>50714284
>>50714373
The premise is that the PC's would be investigating a dungeon/ruin/labyrinth/whatever only to find that a troll has moved in and already slaughtered and eaten the original inhabitants. Now they're stuck inside with a hungry Troll, a bunch of still-armed traps, and a dwindling supply of torches.

>>50714421
>>50714458
The people I'd be running this for are new to RPGs, so they aren't familiar with the typical monster tropes. Besides, I don't think in this instance I'd need a new monster when an existing one, creatively described and put in a unique situation more than suffices.

>>50715061

I think it was miscommunication with the artist, yeah. Like a garbled description.
I'm actually kinda cool with it, I like weird supernatural monsters.

>>50715069
I haven't actually played it yet, but from what I've heard it works like clockwork.

And, like clockwork, messing with the cogs can lead to the whole thing breaking apart. So make sure that everyone knows the rules and that you use everything properly and whatnot.

This does make it more difficult to play than the relatively rules-light B/X-clones out there, but on the other hand, from what I've heard, Torchbearer's got one hell of a system once it gets going.

For something more negative, I've heard some people say that they aren't too fond of the justify-your-roll-after-the-fact nature of Conflicts?

File: Untitled.png (647KB, 792x1028px) Image search: [Google]

647KB, 792x1028px

>>50715061
>>50714880
>>50714552
Yeah, Oldschool trolls aren't just big green dudes, the artwork for them is p gnarly. It's kind of what inspired me to try and hash this thing out. Another vibe I want to aim for is something like Jaws, except that it's on land, has opposable thumbs, and enough low cunning to set some disturbingly effective traps.


Imagine being knee deep in water, deep down in some gods-forgotten passage of an old ruin, when suddenly you hear the low moaning howl of the creature that's been stalking you for the last 4 hours. It's already dragged the Cleric off into the dark and ate him whole while he was still alive and screaming, and the Fighter finally succumbed to his wounds and bled out after the beast tore his arm off at the shoulder. All's the better, because now you realize that it was following you by the scent of fresh blood in the air. The Mage stepped into a hidden pool where the water was too murky to see that the ground had dropped off. She surfaced once, before something dragged her under. You didn't wait around to see what would float to the top.

Just beyond the flickering light of your last torch you can barely see the glimmer of it's black sunken eyes. Even if you didn't have light you could still tell that it was nearby from the charnel reek of it's breath. The torch's flame is quickly dying...you break for the door at the end of the hall...the troll's gibbering shrieks grow louder as it closes the distance...you reach out and pull open the door with all your strength...and realize that it's locked.

File: 1457188416916.jpg (53KB, 540x720px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 540x720px

Say, when using BFRPG or B/X or LL, whatever, that a non-thief wants to attempt to pick a lock or disarm a trap by borrowing the thief's tools. What sort of roll would you make them for the attempt?

LotFPs base 1-in-6 for everyone?
BFRPGs optional skill roll supplement? [d20+DEX =/> 20]

>>50715887

I prefer LotFP's method, but I don't think I'd be too opposed to using BFRPG's method.

Is there something like a big list of wilderness encounters fitting for the region? Like swamps, and what not?
Something that gives you a bit more to work with than just a monster list would be perfect.

>>50715887
I do 2in6.

>>50716382
Too high. That's a 33% chance of success. A level 1 Thief (who is supposed to be skilled at picking locks) only has a 25% chance.

>>50716450
It was 2in6 in B/X

>>50716671
That's to force open a stuck door, not pick it's lock.

File: thief skills, Moldvay Basic, failure reduced by one third.png (48KB, 802x590px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 802x590px

>>50716382
Generally speaking, I like a 2-in-6 chance for folks performing tasks they aren't skilled at. And if you treat thief skills as a saving throw on top of that 2-in-6 chance (and commonly combine this with bonuses for easy tasks when they're at low levels), low level thieves aren't nearly as abysmal anymore. Picking locks, however, seems like a more specialized task than, say, sneaking around, and I think 2-in-6 is probably a bit too forgiving for non-thieves. 1-in-6 seems better to me (I'd actually keep the 2-in-6 and go with the worse of 2 die rolls, but that's because I have a scheme to the way I do things, but regardless, it's not something you're likely to succeed at).

>>50713239
>I'm still working on this
>it's actually shaping up to be semi-playable

A STRANGER I REMAAAAAAAAAIN

>>50706710
I'm looking forward to it even if I like classes because Crawford knows his shit when it comes to GM tools and making a game that's very easy to hack. For instance, I love the new psionics system. I'm back porting that to SWN 1e. I'm also looking forward to the new GM section in SWN revised.

Anyway, he posted something new, one of his off the top his head designs. SWN is now the most complete OSR scfi game with this.

Jedi in SWN

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_muHvt8sNGv2WeHiuHHWwCkqOXJrrflb-hcaztZKZN8

File: Noelp&l.jpg (26KB, 350x462px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 350x462px

Would it be a dick move to replace the regular high fantasy Tolkien elves with little christmas elves? Not actual christmas elves mind, but the same stature and slight goofiness.

>>50718588
If that's how you think elves should be in your world then go for it.
You should probably tell the players before hand if they intend to play an elf though.
Otherwise you shouldn't feel bad about going against normal fantasy tropes in your own games.

>>50718588
not necessarily, although Christmas Elves have more in common with Gnomes and to a lesser extent Halflings than they do with standard D&D Elves

1st for True AD&D

>>50715069
It's Burning Wheel and that means heavy crunch. It's a modern rules-heavy system that has pretty much nothing in common with OSR games.

If that's what you want then you might enjoy the game. I think it does the survival thing pretty well but it's highly mechanistic.

Order of greatness.

1. BFRPG
2. DCC
3. LotFP
4. B/X
5. S&W

Am I wrong?

>>50721413

Yes and I will fite you.

1. LotFP
2. Labyrinth Lord
3. Beyond the Wall
4. Godbound
5. S&W

How do you guys write out the details of factions in your campaigns / settings?

I'm doing a couple for my hexcrawl-based campaign, and while I've gotten a lot of details down I'm curious how other people do it.

File: 1457153933707.jpg (352KB, 650x916px) Image search: [Google]

352KB, 650x916px

>>50721488
You know, I'd be a liar if I said I haven't run LotFP the most. Best system for simplicity. But BFRPG just fixes the things i want that are missing.

>>50721413

1. Three brown books
2. B/X
3. Delving Deeper
4. Holmes
5. Seven Voyages of Zylarthen

>>50721530
Fuck the LBB.

>>50721551

Awww shit, it's on now!

>>50721491

Since I tend to run really loose hexcrawls or dungeons I tend to just write the faction info on the first encounter the party comes across them.

If you're more asking how to organize and write up worldbuilding information- I have no fucking idea. Something I've been trying to work on for years.

>>50721642
I mean, my setting primer is pretty messy, but it's organized so that I can understand it easily enough.

My worldbuilding thusfar has been:

1. Overall 'theme'
2. Important NPCS
3. Details of major city hub
4. Biodiversity in the region

And then I just try and fill it out as best I can. It's been working so far in my campaign, but I've never really done much research on how other GM's do it.

>>50721551
The first three booklets are the only D&D version that truly encourages one to strive for creativity and immersion. It's all downhill from there really. "Rulings, not rules" is very strong in the original game and it's the DM's job to build his own game on the foundation laid by the booklets.

File: tumblr_nubnd3Q6HP1qhttpto2_1280.jpg (683KB, 796x1000px) Image search: [Google]

683KB, 796x1000px

>>50721491
3x5 card.
Front:
Name, power level (neighborhood, city, local, regional, continental, world, planar, etc.), membership
Enemies
Friends

Goals

Back: PC actions and possible consequences.

Staple it to NPC cards for faction members as they get rolled up, or throw them into a folder together if it gets important enough. Can also write down timelines for goals, but not necessary when I begin. I'll also transfer the PC actions and interactions with other factions to notebook paper if it gets big enough.

If the "faction" is just a single NPC, I'll leave the info on the NPC's card.

>>50721895
Thanks! This is pretty close to my current system, though I've got it all scribbled on a single page rather than using 3x5's, which I have been using exclusively for monster statblocks and treasure.

At this rate I'm just going to make an entire system that runs purely on 3x5's.

>>50708170
I make my wizards need a wand/stave/rod/catalyst on hand to cast spells. Kinda like a souls game, I suppose. Even wands with spell charges work.

File: Richey Beckett - wizard in red.jpg (679KB, 1200x1600px) Image search: [Google]

679KB, 1200x1600px

>>50721642
>If you're more asking how to organize and write up worldbuilding information- I have no fucking idea. Something I've been trying to work on for years.
>>50721771

I keep a folder for each campaign I'm running. I'll usually do up a quick 1-2 page summary (basically it's a cover letter for the campaign) with major themes, NPCs, and ideas. It's inevitable that it'll go off the rails, but I'll go back to it occasionally when I'm thinking up the next steps in the campaign.

I keep a journal during sessions, as well. After the game I'll sit down for an hour or two and work out the immediate effects of the party's actions, keep track of any time-sensitive shit, and every so often I'll throw in an omen or some weird crap going on. If I have to roll up new major NPCs, I'll throw in a coincidence die roll to see if they're aligned with a faction that already exists, or assign them to one if it's obvious.

>>50711367
LotFP, but with the BX/BECMI Elf. The LotFP Elf is shit.

>>50721413
1. B/X
2. Labyrinth Lord
3. Godbound
4. ACKS
5. Astonishing etc etc Hyperborea

>>50714017
I didn't see this answered, so:
>1: How isn't Sleep consistently a TPK against any low-level party that gets in range?
It is. Don't include enemy spellcasters who know Sleep unless you want the encounter to be a fuck-you. Simple as that. You can't just do this 3E style, where everything that's "level 1" is supposed to be equally dangerous as everything else of the same level.

>>50721530
This is the guy who knows.
I'd remove Delving Deeper and put the RC in second above B/X though.

>>50714017
>1: How isn't Sleep consistently a TPK against any low-level party that gets in range?

The thing I do is, I have Sleep allow for a save. That way, there's at least a chance that someone stays awake and wakes up the others by bitch-slapping them, one per round.

I explained it to the players this way: "We can agree that Sleep allows no save, or that it allows a save. Just know that it's gonna be the same spell, whether you cast it or your enemies do."
They all agreed to let it have a saving throw.

>2: Given that Charm Person (and Charm Monster) basically just take away control of PC(s), how do you make that not un-fun?

If you trust your players, just tell them "You're charmed and have to do so-and-so" and let them handle it. It worked generally fine for me, some of them enjoying the chance to roleplay a sudden shift in allegiance and laying waste to their previous comrades.

File: Wizard hat funky.jpg (50KB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 900x900px

So as I've stated multiple times I'm trying to create a sort of spammable weak-cantrip magic system for OSR games, but when it comes getting to the spells I'm starting to run into the snags.

For example, what's a good way to do a 'stunning' spell? The spell that stuns someone every round might be too good, but I don't want it to be too random either. What's a good dice roll for this sort of thing?

And don't say DCC. I don't fucking like DCC.

>>50723564
Single target only, have it require a save and make it so the magic user has to touch the target. So attack roll. Risky for a dinky magic user, but hey. It's a stun. Worth it.

There's precedent for this with the RC's Weapon Mastery. I think Axes were the one with the stunning effect.

>>50723703
Here's the stun effect.

Stun: A weapon with the stun ability will stun any opponent it hits that is approximately the same size as the wielder of the weapon (or smaller) unless they make a saving throw vs Death Ray. Some ranged weapons can only stun opponents at listed ranges. A stunned opponent cannot attack or cast spells and can only move at 1/3 normal speed. Stunned opponents also have a +2 penalty to armour class and a –2 penalty to all saving throws. A stunned character can make a saving throw vs Death Ray each round to shake off the stun.

Do remember that the axe weapon master can try and stun the enemy with every hit he makes. Weapon Masters own.

>>50723703

All of these are ranged.

>>50723765
A bit more advantageous for the magic user but eh. Should still work. There's little risk of stun locking an enemy, since the stun effect is gated behind two rolls.

>>50723754
Do they make the saving throw vs Death Ray at the start of their turn or the end? Can they shrug it off and take their turn, or only at the end of their turn?

>>50724271
I think it's start of turn, but I don't have time to check at the moment. I should also clarify that this is from the Dark Dungeons retroclone, so it's not strictly RC.

/osr/ are there any good guides on making good random encounter tables?

File: Cantrips for Basic D&D3.png (108KB, 992x1198px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 992x1198px

>>50723564
Here are the limited-use cantrips in the pic converted to at-will spells.

Breeze -- requires concentration to sustain*, range 30'

Cleanse -- requires concentration*, cleans up to a 2'x2' area each round (3 rounds to clean human, 2 for dwarf, halfling, etc.), by targeting vital areas first, you could probably half adverse effects of contaminant each round (1/2, 1/4 then 0 damage from burning oil, etc.)

Fatigue -- save negates spell entirely, concentration to maintain effects*

Incandescence -- range is touch only, radius is 20', hum is moderate

Jolt -- damage is 1d2 vs those in metal armor, and 1 hit point otherwise

Kindle -- range 30', it takes 1 round before the target of the spell ignites

Long Arm -- does not grant you an attack, effect applies to the round after you cast the spell (and only that round)

Open / Close -- range 30'

Puff of Smoke -- puff is partially translucent, halving sight distance (and area illuminated by light source) through it and granting 50% concealment (50% chance to miss anybody attacked in or through it)

Sputter -- affects a single flame, light intensity and area of illumination are merely halved

Whisper -- range 120', requires concentration*

Wizard Mark -- takes 10 minutes to cast

*Spell has no definite duration, but lasts as long as caster concentrates

>>50725539
I don't know of any good guides, but I did like this article:
>http://black-vulmea.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/random-encounters-that-dont-suck.html

I'm also on the lookout for this one White Dwarf article from way back when that talked about having wandering monsters that are literally the monsters in the rooms wandering from room to room, but I can't remember what the title of the article was and it's bugging the fuck out of me.

>>50723564
>>50725715
Anyway, as far as the stun spell goes, remember that the caster has to spend a turn casting the spell, so he effectively loses a turn in the process.

Option 1 -- Target must save or lose 1 turn.

Option 2 -- Target must save or have his movement halved and suffer a -2 penalty to all d20 rolls for 1d4 turns. (Alternately, drop the movement bit and make it last 1d4+1 turns.)

Option 3 -- Target gets a -2 penalty (non-stackable) to any d20 rolls he makes for 1 round only, no save

To keep a lid on power, you might want to say that the spell cannot affect creatures of greater hit dice than the caster.

File: 1406350890006.jpg (15KB, 236x263px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 236x263px

I wan to learn LotFP. Which corebook should I read? In the trove there are various books, but they look like various reformats of the same ruleset.
LotFP - Rules & Magic looks the prettiest, so I assume I should use that one?

>>50725917

Rules & Magic is the revised edition that comes in hardback (and is the current version of LotFP). I'd start there, and grab the Grindhouse Edition's DM booklet PDF.

>>50725917
That is correct. Also read the grindhouse redition referee book. A new referee book is on its way but for now that's all we have.

>>50725956
>>50725976
Got it, kind anons.

File: NEVER EVER.jpg (185KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 1000x1000px

>>50725976
>A new referee book is on its way

>>50722934
>The thing I do is, I have Sleep allow for a save.
Great, and then your M-U players will feel they're not effective enough, so you'll give them more spells per day and let them add their level to the save number of their targets so they won't feel so ineffectual when the spells keep fizzling, and then you're back in 3E. I guess it's true that those who fail history are doomed to repeat it.

Seriously, just do what the other anon said and use common sense when designing encounters, such as removing one if it seems likely to cause a TPK.

>>50726430
Hey, Broodmother Skyfortress finally came out, and so did The Last Guardian! We'll definitely get a new referee book.

Just... probably not until he's revised Rules & Magic yet again to take out the Clerics and demihumans, make firearms standard and *still* not have a sensemaking rule for rapiers.

Yes, I'm asshurt about that weird rapier thing.

File: 8b92d9423239ee8396a851fc377ebe54[1].jpg (37KB, 600x315px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 600x315px

>>50726458

File: Unofficial BX - The Complete BX Adventurer.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

I love classes.

>>50726430
Don't be a pessimist, anon! It's only 3-7 years away!

>>50726555
Oh damn, this is great!

>>50726519
Tons of slippery slopes are fully true though, e.g. the people who said that if we decriminalize homosexuality then next the fags will be getting married, which was pooh-poohed as unthinkable and grotesque exaggeration at the time since nobody would ever let degeneracy go that far.

Or, similarly, 3E, which tried extensively to address complains that magic-user players had about stuff like losing spells when hit, enemies saving against the full effects of their spells, and other "not fair" consequences of being shit at playing a magic-user.

>>50726555

This is amazing. Thank you for this!

B/X or LL? I'll probably get stuck running 5E anyway because they'll be scared off by old shit

>>50727974
99% the same, run whatever you have handy. And really, force them into 3.x or 4E before fucking 5E.

>>50727974
B/X for sure.

>>50728041

>inflicting 3.x on anyone
>ever
You monster.

>>50727974
Do LL. It's fun. And there's nothing wrong with 5e if that's what you and your players enjoy.

>>50728041
>3.5 before 5e
Jesus, that's terrible advice. I can honestly say that 5e is so much better than 3.5 or Pathfinder insofar as delivering a fun gaming experience for new players. 4e is also a unique experience, but.. Seriously? 3.5?

>>50727974
See the pic here >>50681366

In the end, they're pretty similar, but I like B/X's less cluttered equipment lists (weapons and armor and so forth), and cannot stand grouping all spells together in alphabetical order. I support regularizing the cleric's spell progression by using the one from Mentzer though.

>>50728041
why the 5e hate if I may ask?

>>50728041
>And really, force them into 3.x... before fucking 5E.
whywouldyoudothat.jpg

>>50728041
>Hating 5e
It's a really great system for both introducing new people to tabletop games and transitioning players into OSR systems. It's not OSR on its own, but it's a great middle ground.

>>50728082
>>50728041
>>50728123
There's nothing wrong with 5E, I've just been running it non-stop at my FLGS for them every week. I want to run something different for a home game, problem is I know most of them want to play 5E because they can never make it out to the FLGS the days I'm running it.

>>50728305
Right, but why would you ever say that he should FORCE his players to play 3.5? Even if you dislike 5e because you run it so much, it is a bizarre leap in logic to then declare that people should suffer 3.5 because it's a change of pace.

It's counted among the furthest things from OSR possible in my opinion because of the mechanical focus on builds and the heavy rules.

>>50728347
I'm not that guy, I'm the original poster.

File: 5e Inventory Tracking Sheet (Auto-Calcuating).pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>50728305
>>50728375
I understand.

That said, if you're interested in a more OSR-like 5e for your home games, you could try something like pdf attached, a heavy adherence to the light rules, a small hexcrawl map and some OSR inspiration for a plot or story.

I've done it before and while it's not the same as playing LotFP or LL, it's a good way to introduce players to OSR-esque systems without ripping them from their comfort zone.

File: 5e Inventory Tracking Sheet.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>50728415
And the non-auto-tracking for printing out. It's pretty much a bastardized LotFP encumbrance rules for 5e.