OSR General - I guess it's my turn to make the thread edition

>>50606112
>That actually worked.
Sweet.

Man it's as dead as a Necromancer's girlfriend in here.

Is having a few differing race as class options better or worse than just having separate race and class?

>>50606418
>a few differing race as class options
Sounds like a slippery slope to unnecessary class bloating.

Maybe, do it the DW way: Every class has an ability that differs from race to race. Like human clerics who can use some wizard spells as a divine magic, or elven rangers who always succeed at whatever they do while travelling through wilderness.

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Yoooo gonna keep shamelessly plugging my weird little project

Updated the JROTC kid with an actually functional practice rifle based on feedback.

Continue to tell me things! Lots of work in the coming week with finishing up the semester but I've gotta have something to do in my downtime.

>>50606418

I actually like races taking up a slot that would be used for some other special ability. I was inspired by ACKS having an "Elven Blood" Proficiency; I thought it was kind of cool, and I started coming up with cool "racial" Proficiencies for my game, since I graft the Proficiency system onto other games pretty willy-nilly.

It opens some neat stuff.

>>50606583
Looking nifty.

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>>50606583
>>50606778

Okay, totally lied. Forgot to save the Word document I use for rules edits as a new .pdf, so here's the ACTUAL update, with a little bit of new art!

>>50606418
>Is having a few differing race as class options better or worse than just having separate race and class?
depends on the system honestly, although Race As Class systems generally need to give those classes something special to make it work well(like in DCC), or give each race at least 2-5 options each(like in ACKS), or some other solution(like in Pars Fortuna, which has every class be a Racial Class and by default standard Humans aren't playable)

On the bus ride home from work tonight, I had an interesting thought for, well, my own little 'brew that could feasibly be ported to LotFP with minimal effort.

One of the most basic things I've changed (kind of a big change, kind of not) is switching the attack roll to 3d6 instead of 1d20. People tend to have d6s way more often, even now, and hucking a handful of dice always feels good. I do get that it does change probabilities a bit, and I have to rework AC and all that comes with that change, but I'm OK with it.

However, that's not the idea. The idea is, much like the Specialist gets x/6 chances to do Specialist stuff, the Fighter, too, gets to put points towards things as they level. Stuff such as Trip, Disarm, Bull Rush, etc; Fight-y type shit they can do during combat. Each of these maneuvers starts at 0, which the Fighter gets X points at level 1 and Y more each level thereafter to allocate. Then, when doubles of the value equal to or less than the points allocated to a maneuver is rolled on the attack roll, regardless of whether the attack itself hits, the fighter can choose to use one of those maneuvers. If the attack is actually successful, it's performed after damage is dealt.

For example, Chuck the Fighter has 3 points in Trip, 2 in Disarm, and 1 in Bull Rush.

His first attack roll is 1, 1, 5; not enough to hit the opponent in their plate, but enough to either trip or disarm him, or knock the guy back a couple feet (away from the caster).

Later in the round, one of Chuck's attack rolls is 3, 3, 6; a successful hit on the obnoxious knight in his way, as well as the doubles to allow him to get a trip in as well. So, a quick jab to a chink in the armor, a side Russian leg sweep, and the formerly obnoxious knight is bleeding and on the ground.

I'm a bit inspired by the Dragon Age RPG's Stunting mechanic, but at the same time keeping track of stunt points and all the broken shit that can come out of it is too fiddly for what I'd like.

>>50607440
I like that a lot! I really, really love swashbuckly combat, but called shots and stunts are hard to regulate sometimes, based on how specific they can be. There's also the question of how to handle stat checks in OSR and such, which makes the whole thing a big ol' mess sometimes.
The systematic approach seems to work best, (DCC and Mighty Deed, I'm lookin' at you!) which is a little contrary to OSR notions, but as long as it's open to interpretation, I can get behind it.
Good job!

>>50607525
Yeah, I wasn't going to add a ton of different maneuvers and shit. I mean, aping some of the "combat maneuvers" from 3.PF would be a start, and I'd be tweaking from there.

I was just more worried about "How easy is this to grok?" I'm glad that it came across as fairly understandable, even if I tend not to be at points.

>>50607615
I'm still not 100% into the math behind it, but I really like the ideas there, so I'll try out something like that in my next Holmes Basic game, since that's where my crew does the most homebrewing.

I wish someone out there was running a SWN game.

Any of you guys ever try Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea? It sounds interesting, but seems kind of rules heavy. But I get such a boner for low fantasy/sword and sorcery stuff that I want to like it...

>>50608297
I have the boxed set and I've never gotten to play it, partly due to lack of interest and partly because the set is too damn pretty to ruin.

It looks rad as shit to play, though, and there were a lot of big fans at TridentCon this year, and iirc there was actually a session there.

What are you guy's experiences with the Immortal set from BECMI? Alternatively, does anybody know any good actual plays of it?

>>50606418
My thinking is that each class represents a broad archetype in the game world. So having race-as-class /tells you/ something about the world; that different races are both very different to humans and highly specialised.
The choice to use it, or to seperate race from class basically boils down to how much you want species to matter. Personally, I much prefer it, with the option of having some 'variant' racial classes (such as dwarf priests like in ACKS)

>>50607440
holy shit I love this

Has Broodmother Skyfortress been liberated? Ten foot pole describes it as more of a how to run an awesome game guide rather than an adventure per se. Sounds great. Plus the way its described makes it seem gonzo and a bit over the top which is my preferred play style.

what kind of abilities should an adventurer have? i am making my players take an adventurer test i am trying to think in what kind of challenges they will have to pass

>>50608158
Someone actually was, a few threads ago.

>>50607440
Really interesting. When I bolted combat skills onto Fighter, I just used a d6 together with d20, similarly to Mighty Deeds. But I like the way you can do a stunt even you missed.

For now I just stole Shadow of the Demon Lord boons and banes, which are stackable (dis)advantages expressed in d6: say, you have 3 boons and 1 bane. One bane cancels one boon out, so you're left with 2 boons, roll 2d6, choose the better one.

So you can either take a bane to try and stunt alongside with the attack, or hope you exceed the AC of the enemy by 5 or more (additional stunt for every 5 over it). Although I'm also using DCs in the increments of 5 for everything.

>>50609897

You're lucky I thought of this shit before.

>Adventurers are graded in 6 general categories, more commonly called Splunk
>Strength
>Personality
>Legwork (speed and agility)
>eUlogy
>Nullification
>Knowledge

These basic grades are comparable to the stats in the game, but are given more of an adventuring focus.

The reason 'eUlogy' is its own category is because of the number of deaths typical with adventures- adventurer guilds wants you to be a qualified burial priest. This is a replacement for the general 'wisdom'. Nullification is the removal of poisons and parasites from your own body and knowledge of how to keep yourself alive as long as possible, and is comparable to Con.

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Last thread's encounter list OC

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Fighters are weapon masters.

All fighters can pick up these weapons and get the following bonuses-

Rapiers - +2 on all rolls against an elected target, -2 against all others
Shortbow - Can move half distance and still shoot.
Longbows - Longbows do d8 damage in the hands of a fighter.
Mace - Causes -1 AC on hit, to a minimum of 12. Only deals d6 vs unarmoured opponents
Battleaxe - On max damage or killing blow, fighter MUST attack next nearest target from momentum
Pike/Spear - +1 to hit & damage per adj pike/spear
Halberd - Chosen ally gets +2 AC
Staff - make 2 attacks at -2 to hit per round
Daggers - attack normally or take -2 to hit for +2 damage. Crits 19-20
Shortsword - +1 to hit

Other weapons can be suggested and worked out

Favorite OSR game to base your campaign on? What game do you feel provides the best cohesive basis to then further house-rule to your liking?

>>50611336

This is going to sound terribly fedora but I don't actually base them on any one game, just the OSR 'base' in general.

Like roll under saves, armor as deflection, d20 attacks, Xin6 skill rolls, class based, hit dice, etc.

Pretty much everything else though I like to mike up on my own, especially the setting and magic system because I find the biggest problems with those.

>>50611392
Exactly this.

I want to implement a "one grow point" each level up, and you can apply it to either class or race. This easies multiclassing and makes race as a "second-class" that you can delve in for archetypical powers.
And since multiclassing is easy, each class have a starting perk, so a Fighter1/Wizard1 is different from a Wizard1/Fighter1.

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So I'm still working on my cantrip/minor spell with unlimited uses magic system and I sort of want some ideas on how to finish it.

Currently my ideal is to just have a long list of Charms, Hexes, Transformations and so forth that the player can do at any time as long as they can cast a spell with a wand. For instance, you can create a very small candle flame as a free spell, no 'spell slots' or anything like that.

However I want players to devise their own magical strategies while keeping with this general formula. So currently my idea is; Players combine other small spells together to get bigger effects. Perhaps once you start combining and chaining spells that is when you'll have to do some kind of spell-craft roll to keep it working.

Example;
>Conjure Candeflame spell
>Grow Flame (makes it bigger)
>Leaping Light (makes fire 'leap' towards directed target)

So this would be a kind of a spell combination to attack an enemy target. Would something like this work? Obviously this is a simple example and seems restrictive, but I am looking for a system that is hard to abuse.

>>50612409
In your example, how many attack actions were spent for that? If all 3, said flame should cause a good portion of damage else it would be better 3 arrow shots. If you can spend a move action goes better because he wouldn't move so being vulnerable.

>>50612409
You know you've been on the internet too long when you see an image of some cool, hand-carved magic wands and the only thing you can think of is animal dicks.

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So I ran the Labyrinth Lord module Inn of Lost Heroes the other day. It was pretty fun, although a lot of the adventure is supposed to be laid out to the adventurers early on and the stakes aren't that high (or can at least be changed to the DMs preference), so it became mostly a money haul for my players. They did get close to dying on a couple occasions though.
Also the adventure sort of bummed them out, because the backstory is kind of tragic I guess.

It's probably a good module if you haven't planned anything for a session and need something quick.

>>50607440
I really like this and would love to see it develop into something more formal.

Someone tell OP to add the following link to the general. It's got literally everything you can imagine or would ever need in your campaigns.

http://www.ragingswan.com/free-resources/

are there any tables for random encounter in towns , or event building?

>>50613892
Have you checked out Vornheim?

So i like resource management of torches, projectiles and rations, but I don't like tracking every single instance of that resource.

What is a good way to simplify arrow / torch / ration tracking whilst still making them an important part of encumbrance?

>>50614397
I havent tried it yet, but I like the idea of an item usage die from the Black Hack - I might try that next campaign.
For example, a quiver would have a d10, and if you rolled a 1-2, you'd go down one die size until you roll a 1-2 on a d4 and the quiver is empty.

>>50614397
Track torches and lantern oil not individually but in hours.

Like, you can have, in your inventory, 6 hours of torchlight and 12 hours of lanternlight.

What's an ideal number of players for DCC? I've not gamed in years aside from occasional one-off adventures of different systems at cons, but I'm getting some friends together to start a group again. Initially seemed like I'd just have 4 players but now that number is doubled and I'm trying to plan accordingly.

Either way I figure there'll be lots of dying and rerolling. Once I figure out who all is commited to playing we'll figure out if they're going to running with henchmen and followers, or just reroll a new character to get inserted as needed when PCs start dying.

>>50615472
Honestly, when running the 0-Level Funnels, I got a bit of DM-burnout with more than 4 people. That's 16 characters all essentially doing shit at once.

But for any RPG I've ever played or ran, 4-5 has been the ideal for me.

>>50615917

>16 people at once

You need a caller for that many anon. Things break down with large groups of people trying to do things all at once, and dividing your attention.

>4-5 is ideal

Totally.

>>50616016
>You need a caller for that many anon. Things break down with large groups of people trying to do things all at once, and dividing your attention.
In DCC, before proper play starts, players control multiple characters. So callers aren't really as needed.

>>50616040

I guess I misread that.

>>50615472
My DCC games generally have 3-5 players per session. 3 players works well for me and more than that makes everything a bit messier but more fun. Since I still haven't really grasped everything about DCC I still prefer just 3 players though.

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Anyone looking forward to MCC? I backed the Kickstarter. I fuckin love post-apocalyptic games and this one looks sweet.

>>50616183
Never heard of it. If it's anything like DCC, I'm guessing it'll be a lot of fun to read and no fun at all to play because it's a micromanagement and table-finding nightmare.

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>>50616214

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>>50616214
DCC is a blast, anon.

>>50615917
>>50616106
Yeah with the funneling I wanted around 4 really, any more than that and I'd want people to only roll up 3 characters instead of the standard 4 per player. But once they're through the funnel and each person starts getting down to 1 character each I was wondering how difficulty would run.

I'm planning on seeing lots of deaths as well, so I'll probably convince them to at least bring a few henchman/hirelings to follow them around so we've got backup characters.

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>>50616270
Yeah, I'd stick to 4-5.

I highly recommend having the Crawlers Companion app on a tablet or phone. It streamlines the Spellcasting/Table Reference process that people bitch about all the time. Also go to the trove and download the issues of Crawl! for some extra classes and races and whatnot. The fan community for DCC is probably the best I've ever come across.

Purple Sorcerer has tons of other cool things to use.
>http://purplesorcerer.com/tools.php

>>50616270
To add on to >>50616383 , I would also say to get the reference booklet at https://peoplethemwithmonsters.blogspot.co.nz/p/dcc-rpg-resources.html, and get it in print if you have the resources for it. The booklet together with the app and maybe a custom (or official) DM screen basically makes it so you don't have to look in the actual rulebook during play at all.

>>50616383
Yeah I grabbed all the stuff off the trove for DCC, since I can't find the book anywhere at this point and am waiting for them to restock in January. I've been looking into other resources and shit for the future, but at least for the first session I'm going to run the 0-level funnel from the book and then branch out from there as needed. Hopefully the players will enjoy it enough to want to continue on.

>>50615917
>But for any RPG I've ever played or ran, 4-5 has been the ideal for me.
For a standard RPG experience, I think 4 players is ideal. A lot depends on the personalities of the people involved, but I generally prefer 3 players to 5, as things tend to drag a bit in the latter situation. Of course, I've done some great gaming with either 1 or 2 players, but it requires a different approach (especially in the case of 1 player) and thus isn't really a typical experience.

>>50616515
I hiiiiiiiiighly recommend #67 Sailors on the Starless Sea as your Level-0 funnel.

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Speaking of DCC, does anyone have a PDF copy of the repress? I know it includes some errata and another sample adventure.

>>50616552
I'll look into it, I was just going to do the book one since it seemed nice and simple. Probably going to run a bunch of modules until I get more familiar with the system and comfortable running it.

is it necessary to get the weird dice for dcc?

>>50616650
They explain how to do the rolls with the standard dice.

>>50616650
Not at all, but I do like having them. Bought 2 sets.

>>50613892
>random encounter in towns
LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THE CITY-STATE OF THE INVINCIBLE OVERLORD
>Supplements/Judge's Guild/Main Stuff/Judges Guild - Supplement - City State of the Invincible Overlord.pdf

Or, well, you can get the same material minus some of the context and with a bit more organization in the first pages of the Ready Ref Sheets.

The addition of having the type of encounter range from being attacked to being questioned, propositioned, or just encountering the town crier? The thing where there's a table to determine WHY the paladin is attacking you (they're drunk/you're in the way/they're just huge racists/etc.)?

It's all very interesting and worth taking a look at if you want to create encounter tables for long-term play in a city. Maybe not copied word-for-word - it's got a lot of subtables, and some of them aren't that great (looking at you, RRS's Women tables) - but there's a lot to say for having your randomly generated NPCs have some reason for existing beyond just attacking the PCs. That's alright in a dungeon, because that's the expected behavior, but in a town or city things are expected to be a little more civilized and, well, lawful. In the "lawful civilization vs. chaotic wilderness" sense.

>>50609598
yeah, I'd love this. $9.99 is more than I'd want to spend on a pdf, but then again it's 173 pages...

>>50617047
Talking about the ready ref sheets, some anon did a cleaned up pdf of them. Does anyone have it?

>>50616650
Just use the online app.

>>50611336
>Favorite OSR game to base your campaign on?
this is a constantly changing thing for me, although ACKS, Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, Microlite 74(with all it's expansions), Whitehack, and Swords & Wizardry Complete are the most common candidates for me to tinker with for potential campaigns(The Nightmares Underneath will likely join this list once my copy arrives, same if I ever get a physical copy of Wolf Packs & Winter Snow)

>What game do you feel provides the best cohesive basis to then further house-rule to your liking?
not an absolute set in stone one, but I'd say probably ACKS, although both Microlite 74 and S&W Complete come close

>>50609598
>Has Broodmother Skyfortress been liberated?
I still haven't gotten my physical copies, or links for the electronic (I'm one of the backers), so Jim's probably still dead after Dragonmeet.

>>50616570
I do, bought it for Black Friday.
It's watermarked though.

>>50616552
This adventure seems almost universally praised, especially for a 0 level module. What makes it so great? Anything particular that stands out, or is it just a solid adventure all around?

>>50619790
Wasn't there a guy in the pdf threads that scrubbed stuff?

>>50616570
How is DCC - I read the book, it seems fun with the right players...How do you handle the funky dice?

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Please recommend me some good dungeon stocking / wandering monster tables

>>50622136

see

>>50618074

>>50622136
It's very fun and me and my players enjoy it a lot. One big problem I feel it has is the difficulty of using it with modules for other retroclones. It's also very hard to add in new magic to the system since the magic rules are so unique, and that kind of sucks because weird magic is something I really enjoy.

>>50609076
>>50610596
>>50612850
Aww shit, I'm actually a little embarrassed that something that was literally the equivalent of a shower thought is getting so much attention. Thanks!

As for formalizing it, I'll see what I can do. I like the simplicity of LotFP as a base system (even though I grew up with BECMI), and if anything, I'll try and convert it to something compatible with that. I mean, from there it could be extrapolated to other systems with a minimum of hassle.

Timetable on that is probably not going to be right away, though, as I do have work the next couple of days, and that doesn't really give me much time to do anything at any sort of reasonable hour. Hell, if Troll Gods is actively seeking material for Issue #2, I might just submit the system as an article there instead.

>>50607922
Yeah, the probabilities are something that I really gotta sit down and hash out before I can say I'm satisfied. I just want to have something, even if it's just my own homebrew, where it's easy enough for people to read through a handful of pages, sit down, steal some dice from Risk or whatever, and roll shit up.

I mean, I'm just 31 going on 70 (or that's what it feels like, what with early-onset arthritis), and I just don't want to sit down and read 400+ pages of a PHB, let alone another similar-sized book in the DMG, just to even start to ask my bros "hey, let's sit down and play some Fantasy Fucking Vietnam". And that's assuming my bros are fluent enough in the system where character creation only takes up a setting, and I'm not constantly asked "which die do I use to attack with?" It's happened to me before, and even like, 6 sessions in the guy kept asking the same question.

I want something, maybe 32 pages TOPS for the players to look through, with maybe another 32 pages of DM notes, treasure tables, monsters, and shit, and have a nice, easy, quick way to hang out and murderhobo some shit. At the same time, I want to have everyone be able to do more than just "I hit it with my axe. Next.", because that gets boring.

I've done a 1st Edition game where I had ~5 or so henchmen compared to some of the other players' 10+, and even with the extra bookkeeping of another handful of guys, there were definitely points where I was in the backseat watching shit happen, and it was really the inter-player interaction that had kept me around long enough to get beyond that. Shit's boring, and I don't want boring, simple as that.

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MageGuru scanned the map in FR16 at some point, so here's that missing map from a few months ago.

>>50622163
The index in the back of the Fiend Folio has a pretty handy set of tables sorted by environment.

>>50622493

What sort of AC base we looking for? Something like 8? What about fighter to hit bonuses? I wound imagine something like another d6 to thorw, unless you think the combat moves.

A slight variation wound be something like everybody rolls 4d6, but everyone but fighters ignore 6 rolls. That way you'd have a 1-20 possible attack results for normies.

>>50623713
Gary Gygax said the tables are garbage, he hated those Fiend Folio tables (monster levels all wrong he said). The collected Fiend Factory is clearly superior and more wacky.

I've been thinking about stealing Ars Magics spontaneous magic system.

Basically you combine an Art and Form. Or Conjure + Fire = make fireball.

The only question is how to determine the Wizards ability with these?

>>50623768
gg said all kinds of shit

That being said, haven't looked at the fiend factory tables, what do you like about them more?

>>50623768
>>50623823

>collected Fiend Factory

link? couldn't find it in the trove

>>50610802
Suggestion for Encounter Anon, lesser layer of hell/underworld/etc?

>>50624230

Define lesser? Like really minor eternal punishments or mystic underworld stuff?

>>50619131
If you would share the link to the electronic copy to the thread it would be very generous of you. I just need a preview tinder if it's what I need to add a kick to the campaign.

A couple of questions for the more experienced GMs here. How do you deliver world building and back story in a more elegant way than "storytelling time with NPCs?" Arcem has a lot of fun shit going on but my player dislikes being told she has to read something. How do you prevent a player from feeling overwhelmed? For some games, that is the goal, but for Godbound, I want her to feel a bit of self-assured and confident arrogance instead. Is it about having clear ways to solve a problem? How do I communicate that?

Tl;dr As a GM how can I communicate better?

>>50613892
>are there any tables for random encounter in towns
Judges' Guild 890 (The Magebird Quest) has some cool stuff for towns and villages despite technically being for DragonQuest..

There's a "special" entry on the charts for events, like the following.
Mule breaks away from handler. If party can assist him in catching it, he passes on a (true) rumor about where the local bandits are "working" this week.
Party harassed by small vermin (monkeys, rats, etc.). If the party kills them or otherwise drives them out of town, the grateful merchants in town will cut them a 5% discount on all wares.
Party sees theft-in-progress. Reporting or stopping will get them a bonus with the shopkeeper, assisting the theft gets them contacts in the local Thieves' Guild.

>>50625460

Put it in item descriptions, the architecture of the buildings, even spells.

For example- imagine a city where every building was flattened by an explosion, but one wizard tower remained standing. Within is a spell book teaching the secrets of a high level abjuration spell that protects from massive spell damage.

Right there is worldbuilding, short and sweet.

>>50623807
Player spent points in one or another. A conjure 3 / fire 1 is the same as a conjure 1 / fire 3 (all total 4), but one is a conjurer and the other a pyromancer.

>>50625460
>how do I deliver worldbuilding
By not doing it. You place the world in front of the players, and it's up to them whether they want to engage with its backstory. If you know the whats and the whys, it's easy to convey the world through the state it is in: culture, geography, architecture, item descriptions, the names and effects of magic, and so on.

Simply put, do your homework and prep and it'll come into its own through play.

What would castles and it's defenses look like if gryphon riders and dragons are common features of a setting?

>>50626763
Bola launchers on every tower that tie up wings so they plummet down to the ground and die.

>>50607440

Are you sure this has never been an official homerule in some OSR rulebook or something? This is really fucking original, I have never seen it.

>>50622516
>Yeah, the probabilities are something that I really gotta sit down and hash out before I can say I'm satisfied.
To make things a bit easier for you, the chance for getting dubs (or triples) of a specific number on 3d6 is 7.4%. Increasing the number of possible dubs is +7.4% per pip, so
>1=7.4%
>2=14.8%
>3=22.2%
>4=29.4%
>5=37%
>6=44.4%

You'll want to get a good selection of options, though, and make sure that none of them are obviously the best - that's a dark path that leads to 3E's uberchargers and chain-trippers.

>>50626763
Ballistae, actual gryphon riders on the defender's side, spread-shot catapults aimed towards aerial targets, stuff like that. And heroic Bard-esque archers, of course.

OD&D actually has some elements of this, weirdly enough. The aerial combat rules have rules for being fucked up by catapults and whatnot (hint: it's pretty easy, all they need to do is fuck up your mount's ability to fly).

>>50627040

Is there any chance you could extrapolate to what the odds for 4d6 would be instead? Ala this post >>50623719

>>50627076
13.19% per pip.

Counting dubs is literally one of AnyDice's default functions, if you wonder. Or, well, counting the chance of rolling X many Y's.

>>50627122
Using the 5e advantage rule applied to 3d6 (so, rolling 4d6, discard lower) affects how much the probability? Not the quoted, but I like bell curve systems. Thank you.

>>50627342
well, it kind of fucks up lower skill numbers for obvious reasons

the only way you get double 1s is if you roll trips
the only way you get double 2s is if you never get two dice greater than 2
etc.

overall the chances are also lower than just straight-up 4d6, obviously

it's a buff to hit chances but just straight-up a nerf to maneuver chances unless, like, you've got really high skill chances

now, if it was roll-and-keep mechanics a-la L5R, where you get to choose which die to toss, things get wierder

I can't figure out how to make anydice cooperate with me right now, but I'll come back to you if I do it

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>>50626227

The problem with this though is I really like simple categories of magic or really ambient styles of 'spells'. For instance, I like charms that just do random shit or hexes that just stun people, but the problem with that becomes how simplistic or complex either or would be.

In this case, a Wizard who likes to cast simple buffing spells would need a million different spell categories to do anything; ie; Control Objects/Wood/Earth to animate tools. Conjure Fire to create light. Change Plants to change the color of clothing, etc.

Where as Hexing magic would be all too simple; it's literally all Perdo Corpus or Destroy/Damage Body. Some categories of magic become much to powerful.

How the fuck is Intellego/Knowing not super overpowered anyway? It would always be way too good for dungeons, allowing you to either 'Intellego Visuam' to sense visual phenomenon in the next room (scrying) or just Intellego Terram to talk to the walls or floors. Terram magic is pretty overpowered already in Ars due to it working with rock, dirt, clay, and metal, it would only get worse in a dungeon crawler.

It's too tough a sell. Maybe I'll use a single category system, so you can just attempt to 'conjure' or 'charm' something instead of needing an art and form.

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>>50628698

What you do is, you make simpler spells less versatile. "Perdo Corpus" is great if you just want to spike a dude for a little damage, and it's a simple spell to research (you'd need to bring the "actual rote spells" from Ars Magicka too or it all breaks down), but it probably doesn't scale very well, maybe doing like 1d4 damage without investing a LOT of effort. On the flip side, Control Tools is as versatile as your imagination is, and doesn't really need to scale - it's always useful, whether you're setting up camp or building a house or making a work of art.

Also, buffing spells are always force multipliers when applied to other people. That's why they're complex and expensive in a lot of games - because that +2 Strength on YOU may not do much, but that +2 Strength on *somebody else* might do a ton.

I actually was playing with this when I was writing up the Eldspeaker in the last thread, so I'll repost it here, because it's very similar to what I'd use for the Ars Magicka system, and I'm just a bit shameless.

>>50628698
>>50629120

Also, you could try paring the Art and Form total down to 6 rather than Ars Magicka's 10, and then make it so that they run off different stat checks. So Fire runs off of Charisma because it's passionate, but so does Enchantment because it's about selling people, while Evocation runs off Strength but so does Earth. It would encourage wizards to be heavily specialized, or to spread out their stat investments to be real generalists.

Or you could introduce the Skills system Ars Magicka has, but in a more limited capacity - say, you have Magic skills and Combat skills, and Magic Skills cover the Arts and Forms, and Combat skills cover martial arts schools so non-Casters get something cool to do, too.

You could even do Martial Arts the same way as Spells, and have Stance and Style, with Stance dictating how you're attacking ("high," "low", "middle" or things more esoteric like "crane" or "tiger") and Style dictating the way you're attacking ("Forceful", "Defensive").

Maybe you could even mix the two if you wanted to break away from Ars Magicka's realism-with-magic style and go into crazy anime shit or Tome Of Battle stuff.

So all this DCC talk lately has me reading through the book. It talks a lot about hirelings and followers, which I understand is because death comes so easily. What do most people do for their groups, just have everyone keep at least one level-0 follower as a second character to replace their characters if they die?

>>50629765
Personally I let my players start at level 1 when they make new characters. I guess if a TPK would happen then I would do another funnel.

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I know people circle jerk over B/X, LotFP, DCC and S&W, etc. The standards.

What are some other OSRs that deserve some recognition? What's cool about it? Does it deviate from Fantasy tropes? Does is change up the standard classes? Is it Sci-Fi?

A few of the Sine Nomine games have caught my eye, specifically Other Dust and Silent Legions. Mutant Future also looks pretty kickass.

So, remembering the small discussion (previous thread I think) on limiting the amount of spells a MU can ultimately learn in B/X; I just had a small idea stealing from the intelligence AD&D stat:

The intelligence of the MU determines the MAXIMUM amount of spells per level the MU can learn to prepare:

<9: 4 / spell-level
9-12: 6 / spell-level
13-14: 8 / spell-level
16-17: 10 / spell-level
18: 12 / spell-level

non-integers are rounded up to the nearest integer (so that every MU can learn at least one spell of each spell-level).

For example, a MU with 17 intelligence would be able to learn 10 1st-level spells, 5 second-level spells, and so on.

The result of this would be that, although higher level spells are limited as compared to RAW (leading to MUs specialized in certain aspects of powerful magic), low level spells are more accessibly (as opposed to the hard-cap of 4 low level spells RAW). Thoughts?

>>50630904
OD&D's always pretty neat, if only because before Greyhawk comes around it's pretty different from what you normally think of as "D&D". It's also got a bunch of funky weird/gonzo stuff that got scrapped with later editions - no special troops in keeps post-OD&D, for instance.

BECMI is also pretty damn neato, and the mass combat/domain stuff is somewhat fascinatingly abstracted. And the original Immortal set is one hell of a read, of course, and takes things into a more Doctor Strange weird fantasy direction.
For non-D&D stuff, though, ACKS is a cool product. Race-as-class, but with multiple unique classes per race, a hard focus on actually making the economy and whatnot make sense... it's a cool attempt if nothing else.

Also, of course, Scarlet Heroes is pretty neat in how it handles the whole Solo Hero thing. If that's all you're after you should probably just grab the free Black Streams: Solo Heroes PDF, though.

It's more "OSR-adjacent" than actually OSR, on account of not using the D&D system whatsoever, but Torchbearer is a really interesting alternate take on the whole FFV logistical dungeon crawl thing. It runs on the Burning Wheel system and requires the players to actually know the rules if they don't want to die horribly, though, so don't go into it expecting yet another B/X clone.

Oh, and since you mentioned Sine Nomine it's probably worth remembering Godbound - it doesn't get much talk in these threads, but I'm pretty sure that's just because it can sustain its own threads outside these. I think I've seen some Godbound generals?

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>>50631426
>no special troops in keeps

What's that?

>>50630904
Sine Nomine is also universally recognized, I would say. And Godbound expanded Crawford's audience past OSR circles.

I keep mentioning Ambition & Avarice, often enough that it might be a shill at this point although I don't think anyone payed attention.

It does several cool things. First of all, the layout and explanations are top notch. I think it's one of the best introductions to the OSR itself, because it's a game AND a primer to oldschool gaming. It's also slick, only 98 pages although no bestiary. Author provided monster creation rules and was working on 2nd edition which included monsters, but last time I checked the work has stopped due to various real life issues.

There's also the obligatory rules tweaking and this game really does some interesting things:

>hit die and saving throws are tied to your race
>each class can perform basic dungeoneering skills which are called dungeon throws (Climb, Force, Locks, Notice, Sneak, Traps) and work just as saving throws
>each class has some unique ability (expertise) and knowledge (identify) and also unique retainers, so Conjurer gets imps and Brigand gets neophytes and Shaman gets spirit guides
>each race gives you interesting benefits, usually modifying your dungeon throws or giving you some biological abilities which are used as in-six-chances, so dark elves get 2-in-6 to identify poison and dwarves get 4-in-6 to identify metal and stones
>there's a limited customization for mundane characters, 3 points are gained each level and can be used to gain additional hit points, improve to-hit bonus, saving and dungeon throws or to gain a proficiency in a new weapon
>some interesting spells

>>50631747
A Lord might have some gryphons (with riders), a Wizard might have a couple Balrogs, a Cleric's keep might be guarded by an Entwood, the Evil High Priest might have spectres patrolling the grounds...

It's all some neat stuff on the random NPC keep generation tables that got cut in later editions for whatever reasons - AD&D, B/X, they all just have the name-level NPC and an assortment of soldiers.

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Got a game going on in an hour.

1. Lamentations of The Flame Princess
2. Today, at 6 EST
3. Voice at https://discord.gg/qaku8y9
4. Roll20
5. https://app.roll20.net/join/1840141/aG0snQ
6. Fun with mushrooms

Does anyone know of a very flavorful pantheon of deities?

>>50632597
Check out Judges Guild's The Unknown Gods. Should be under /Supplements/Judges Guild/ in the trove, I think.

There's a whole bunch of bonkers gods in that one. They don't get too much in the way of description, and they're very Sword & Sorcery in their physicality, but that just means that you've got more freedom in how to use them in a game.

Also, they've got random reaction rolls to decide what mood they're in when the players meet them. Take Sinakad, the goat-headed God of Mercy for the Trapped:
>1) Caring
>2) Cooperative
>3) Disturbed
>4) Forgiving
>5) Grim
>6) Helpful

That's a hell of a lot more useful in actual play than a bunch of paragraphs of campaign-specific backstory, albeit pretty sandboxy. (Which is probably appropriate, given JG's most well-known products.)

>>50632597
Petty Gods for LL.

>>50624161
It's in MageGuru's under 1st Edition > 3rd Party

Along with 500+ pages from TSR / Dragon that were deemed "official rules updates" in their day (from which one may create a true version of Unearthed Arcana), the monsters collected from Imagine Magazine, and a 2E thing (specialty priests of Greyhawk in F&A format).

>>50632952
>official rules updates
So were any of them any good or were they mostly on the level of the exponential falling damage?

Because despite saying that that's the way it worked all along (1d6/10ft/10ft), it clearly doesn't gel with the various descriptions given of it in both 1E and OD&D and, well, gets weird as hell with the 20d6 limit. Which Gygax exceeds in the examples for the Thief-Acrobat, IIRC.

To this day I'm not sure if Gygax ACTUALLY played it that way or if it was just there to make the Thief-Acrobat more useful.

>>50633053
Anon, don't bother even trying to understand UA. It's a writeoff. For your own sanity, just avoid it.

>>50633053
Dragon Magazine issue 69, page 21 (page 102 in Lost Handbook).

>The correct procedure for determining falling damage in the AD&D game system is to roll 1d6 per 10' fallen, cumulative. Since a falling body accelerates quickly, the damage mounts geometrically: 2d6 for the second 10 feet fallen, 3d6 for the third 10 feet, etc.

>The maximum of 20d6 is therefore reached after a fall of approximately 60 feet for most characters. A thief–acrobat can often fall further distances, but the same 20d6 maximum should still be applied.

>The rationale behind this sytem will be discussed in the next issue (#70) of DRAGON™ Magazine.

(next issue contains a single page about social status and birth tables). So it was written, so it is for all time. Word of Gygax; word is bond.

>>50633842
You can avoid UA but can you avoid the OFFICIAL rules additions to the AD&D game? (Gygax's words and emphasis)

>>50633937
Huh, it's funny. A lot of people survived worse falls and D&D hit points is the most forgiving damage system even in TSR D&D (high levels)
but 60 feet fall will almost certainly kill any high level character under these rules.

>>50633974
I don't know about the other guys, but personally I preferred OD&D before Gygax messed with it in Greyhawk so I'm predisposed to dislike Gygax' (sometimes needless) rules-meddling.

My personal pet peeve is how the random NPC fortresses in 1E (DMG p.182-183) just aren't as interesting as OD&D's castles (U&WA p.15-16). It's not just the lack of the "Types of Guards/Retainers in Castle" table, but also the bit where the increased number of classes means that you don't get the short clearcut list of actions for the classes - Fighting-Men joust or demand a toll, Magic-Users Geas if neutral or demanding a steep toll if hostile, and Clerics ask for a tithe and either put you on a Quest or Finger of Death you if you can't pay (depending on alignment).

Really, the change to the alignment system is also a pet peeve. The Evil High Priest was pretty rad, and it's sad to see it so watered down.

On an unrelated note, the AD&D bard is some ripe bullshit and I honestly have no clue how they got from the original The Dragon class to that monstrosity

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>>50632597
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld_gods

>>50629765
>What do most people do for their groups, just have everyone keep at least one level-0 follower as a second character to replace their characters if they die?
It honestly depends. My current game has a follower who got upgraded to Henchman status, and two other statted NPCs whom players could theoretically take over. I also routinely stock prisoners and isolated party survivors in locations, so if someone dies and the player can roll up fast enough they can drop the new character into that hole. If someone plays ball with me on the latter options, I'll hand them information and usually some other stuff to go with it. If the party is in town already, it's usually pretty easy to recruit another body.

>>50631426
Godbound's my game of choice right now and I hope can talk about it more in this thread instead. Godbound generals attract touhoufag and he kinda hijacks the threads because people keep arguing with him. He just doesn't prefer the OSR style.

Anyway, I haven't seen people talk about Delving Deeper. Apparently it's a close recreation of OD&D. This rule caught my eye.

>Parrying

>A defender can forgo his attack to parry and cause an opponent to suffer a −4 attack penalty. Should his opponent miss because of this −4 penalty the defender’s weapon will be dashed from his grasp by a heavier weapon. If, on the other hand, his opponent misses regardless of this penalty the defender is allowed a counter-attack if equipped with a lighter weapon.

Simple, short and sweet. This is going in all my games.

>>50636824

Holy shit, that's the best rule for parrying I've ever seen, ever.

>>50636889
I know right? It's just so cool. I haven't read OD&D so if it's from there, then wow. If it's a Delving Deeper Original then damn.

Here's the Delving Deeper text.
http://ddo.immersiveink.com/dd.html

Check out the wilderness exploration bits. It has hexcrawling rules for the sky and sea with encounter tables for each.

>>50636824
>Parrying
I don't like the dashed from hands thing, any amount of knowledge about medieval weapons would tell you that even a light parrying dagger can stop most blows.

Do you guys think the rule would still work if it were changed to:
>A defender can forgo his attack to parry and cause an opponent to suffer a −4 attack penalty. Should his opponent miss because of this −4 penalty the defender is allowed a counter-attack.

>>50637389
That's still great, and if you don't like the idea of knocking weapons out of hands then it's a good alternative.

>>50637389

Huh, when I read it earlier, I misread it as saying the enemy's weapon will be dashed from HIS hand by your successful parry. Which I think is a better rule.
Then if you have a heavier weapon, you can lose your attack for a 20% chance to disarm your opponent, while if you have a lighter weapon, you reduce the odds he hits you and have a significant chance to counterattack anyway.

>>50637937
>>50637389
I just re-read it myself, and I thought the same thing you did. Getting your weapon knocked away for defending does seem a bit odd. If you're expecting the blow you'd have good handle on your weapon I'd think.

>>50637937
>>50637960
I'm the guy who posted it and that's the way I read it as well. Weird. I wonder if that was a rules flub because it is a pretty sweet rule and differentiates heavy weapons with light weapons.

The original way that I read it is how I'm going to use it anyway.

>>50637989
I guess the point is so player's don't abuse it, but that can be remedied in other ways like by having it be less effective if you keep using it a lot, or just creative attacks by the DM.

>>50638038
Or a reflex saving throw to keep your grip, but then that's just getting overly complicated.

Where can I find decent random dungeon stocking tables?

>>50636824
>>50636889
>>50636929
>>50637389
>>50637560
>>50637937
>>50637960
>>50637989
>>50638038
>>50638057
think I finally figured out how to model Bloodborne style parrying thanks to this, will be most handy

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>Played my first session of Basic Fantasy RPG the other night
>After years of playing with gamest systems like 3e-5e
>The amount of freedom I've had in those few hours was unparalleled

I haven't felt so unhindered by a system in ages. I can't believe I stayed so long in such a small, narrow-minded world of character builds and rules-lawyering. What is this feeling?

Get this to MageGuru.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/f33fn1

>>50638692

Freedom anon. Rules should facilitate the process of presenting the world and they should provide the bare minimum needed to interact with said world.

And then they should get out of the way and let you roleplay.

Don't take me too seriously. I'm very drunk at the moment.

>>50631818

I saw someone (probably you) talking about it some time ago. Is there a copy in the trove?

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>>50637389
>>50636929
>>50636824
LotFP uses a similar rule - take a -2 penalty on your own attack to get +4 AC (if a Fighter) or +2 (if anything else). You can also Press for -2AC, +2/+4 to AB. There's not many ways to boost your attack bonus in the system, so that can be a crucial difference for non-Fighters.

I really like the disarming rules though, definitely gonna add that to the toolbox.

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>>50622163

Here you go.

>>50624230
I'll do this one next.

>>50634045
Fun fact -
Geometric fall damage is why the Monk's slow fall tĥing was actually meant to be a really powerful ability.
10' less fall distance can save your life!

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>>50639226
I've honestly never seen someone use those options in my lotfp. Ever since i added the Last Gasp gambit rule, people use that instead because it's more fun.

I might remove them, or maybe change to something a bit more interesting.

Hey guys, I'm looking to do some writing practice as I'm taking a break from some other hobbies and have spare time that I want to fill with my D&D / OSR stuff.

Any suggestions, or things that you would like to see? I read through Slumbering Ursine Dunes not too long ago and I really enjoyed it, so I compile some of my work on my homebrew setting into something similar but less detailed.

>>50639463
Pretty cool.

The Snake Vase Man entry doesn't have a description, just reactions and a snake vase table.

>>50640122

Ran out of room.

>>50640131
Fair enough.

>>50640065
Well if you have any hill encounters lying around, I'd really appreciate it.

>>50638085
Moldvay's Basic has a quick and clean random stocking sequence.

>>50639176
Yes there is.

>>50639997
Neat.

>>50638692
Welcome friend.

>>50636824
Yeah, that's a Chainmail thing (although a bit less complicated than Chainmail, and made more general).

Lighter weapons can parry heavier ones, but if they're too light then there's a chance that your dagger is going to get fucking vaporized by that zweihander.

>>50636929
Those seem somewhat original, but the weather tables are somewhat clearly inspired by Chainmail and the random hex generation is very much an AD&D thing. I can't say that I've seen too many cloudtop kingdoms and whatnot in other D&D, though, which is a bit weird in retrospect. That seems like a somewhat obvious inclusion, so maybe I just happened to miss them.

The encounter tables are a mish-mash of the various OD&D tables, including the supplements and whatnot - interesting that they skipped the subtables, though.

So /tg/ what's your favorite OSR bestiary?

>>50642568
The Monstrous Compendium and its hardcover Monstrous Manual compilation are one hell of a product.

The Fiend Folio is also pretty interesting in its weirdness, of course - that illustration of a Lizard King fighting a bunch of Lava Children for no other reason than them being on the same page is a great example.

I can't say that I've seen too many inspiring OSR bestiary products, though! Most of the ones I've seen have been more rehashing old material.

>>50639997
>Geometric
Its funner to say Gygaxian fall damage.

I really enjoy the word Gygaxian and use it whenever possible. Try it!

>>50643648
I think you mean HIGH Gygaxian fall damage.

>>50643950
What's the difference between that and low Gygaxian damage? I don't think any calls the 1d6/10ft version low Gygaxian, or even Gygaxian at all.

>>50643999
It was a joke on High Gygaxian writing, a-la the DMG.

Although I suppose 1d6/10ft would be "low Gygaxian", if it isn't Arnesonian in origin. That's how it worked in OD&D and stuff - check the aerial combat rules.

>>50644107
I believe the story about low gygaxian damage was that the editor for AD&D simply got confused about what Gary meant and changed it to what it is now.

>>50633053
Gygax never really played AD&D and didn't really DM past 1982

>>50644213

The problem with that story is that while it's the official story - it's what Mentzer writes in the follow-up article to the Thief-Acrobat, IIRC, where they have the Official Rules Update on the matter - it doesn't quite gel with the existing examples.

Going back to first-print OD&D.
>Crash -- for every 1" of height a rider must throw one six-sided die for damage occuring from the crash, i.e. a crash from 12" means twelve dice must be rolled and their total scored as points of damage incurred by the creature's rider.
>U&WA p.27
Yeah. (I'll note for a moment how early OD&D Judges Guild adventures also went with this interpretation - somewhat naturally.)

And even if you go with assuming that everyone always read the Falling Damage section in the 1E PHB wrong... (p.105)
>Falling into pits, from ledges, down shafts, and so forth will certainly cause damage unless the fall is broken. While such falls could break limbs and other bones, it is probable that your referee will simply use a hit points damage computation based on id6 for each 10' of distance fallen to a maximum of 20d6, plus or minus adjustments for the surface fallen upon. This treatment gives characters a better survival chance, although it is not as "realistic" as systems to determine breaks, sprains, dislocations,
internal organ damage, etc.
Well, there's two problems I have with that. First of all, why 20d6 rather than 21d6? That's a weird cut-off when the natural one is so close - 1d6+2d6+3d6+4d6+5d6+6d6=21d6, after all.
Secondly, let's look closer at this sentence fragment:
>This treatment gives characters a better survival chance
Yeah, what the hell? Gygax knew some statistics, and even if he didn't then he probably understood that 40ft has you rolling 10d6 (more than a name-level Cleric has in hit dice).

And then in the DMG, you have another artifact of the "wrong" system in the Horn of Collapsing (p.146-147) - and this one is heavily rewritten to conform with the "wrong" system!

>>50644589
Yeah, but the argument is that Gygax always meant for it to be 1d6 damage per ten feet per ten feet (e.g. 1d6 for 10ft, 3d6 for 20ft, 6d6 for 30ft).

Like, to the degree that the rules printed in the '78 Player's Handbook were supposedly erroneously changed by an editor.

IIRC Frank Mentzer went into this a bit when explaining why the Official Rules Update was a thing, but I don't remember the Dragon issue.

>>50644653
Maybe what happened is that in 0D&D, they went with a simple rule just to wing it, but then someone pointed out how gravity worked and what terminal velocity is, which is why they use it one way in 0D&D, and then Gygax tries to correct it later on. I mean, after all, this is also the same booklet where Gygax made the price of plate mail 100% affordable by a large majority of beginning players right out of the gate.

As for the second point, of why it caps out at 20d6 instead of 21d6, I can see that as being just a case of 20 sounds like an easier to remember number than 21, despite blackjack connotations, and maybe it was set there because terminal velocity isn't actually 60 feet exactly, but something slightly less, like 57.5 or something. (I didn't google that number. I mean, I probably should. I'm still typing it after all......oh well.)

>>50644737
>because terminal velocity isn't actually 60 feet exactly, but something slightly less, like 57.5 or something.
It's closer to 1880 ft, I think.

>>50644793
I thought that couldn't be right, but then after looking it up, apparently humans reach that speed after only 12 seconds. That's a terrifying thought.

Back on subject, maybe, then, Gygax just said a random number that he thought people wouldn't be able to survive past. I mean, 20d6 is an average of 70 damage, which is more than the average level 20 fighter (d8 average x 10 + 10hp for levels after =~ 55 hp).

So maybe it was just him trying to hand wave it. I mean, if you look at the back of Basic or AD&D 1e (I forget which), a guy tries to jump down a 100 ft cliff to escape a threat, and the DM says "Okay, you have a 1% chance to survive. What do you want to do?" with intentions to roll d%.

Im looking for a PDF somehow related to LOTFP. It was called "10 shades of terror" or something like that. It was about the different kinds of campaigns and the different fronts to use (like: the gothic campaign, the exploration campaign, the wild west survival campaign, etc)

Does anyone remember about this?

>>50644964
>So maybe it was just him trying to hand wave it. I mean, if you look at the back of Basic or AD&D 1e (I forget which), a guy tries to jump down a 100 ft cliff to escape a threat, and the DM says "Okay, you have a 1% chance to survive. What do you want to do?" with intentions to roll d%.
It's B/X.

The example has a character with 7hp about to attempt a last-ditch escape by falling 60ft - 6d6 damage. But here's the catch - the DM knows that there's an underground river flowing through the level below, and so there MIGHT be a pool to cushion the fall.

What Moldvay does is tell the player outright that they have a 98% chance of dying, no save, and a 2% chance of surviving IF HE JUMPS.
The last sentence in the example is, literally:
>Do you still want to jump?

In case you wonder, I checked on AnyDice and 6d6 would have a 99.98% chance of doing at least eight damage - the chance for doing 6 damage is low enough that it's swallowed up by the decimals. A quick calculation shows that, if they had rolled the dice, the character had a 0.0021% chance of surviving.

Also, the entire section is about DMs handling unexpected player behavior that goes outside the pre-existing rules - the section is literally titled "That's not in the rules!", for reference.

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>>50645151

Here you is, anon!

Is anyone out there playing Black Hack? I have been reading the rules the past few days and REALLY loving it.

If you are running it, then how has it worked out for you?

And also, the Warrior class... Another attack every level seems RIDICULOUS? At level 7 they would be attacking 7 times in a single round. Sounds like that take forever, and other players would just be sitting around every round. Any fixes to this?

Thanks

>>50646326
I would make each attack be based on the first roll minus a cumulative 1.
So your first attack was 16, the second will be 15 and so on.

But then a poor roll fucks all. Maybe alternating? The second attack is at -1 from the rolled one, the third +1, the fourth -2, the fifth +2, the sixth -3, the seventh +3 and so on.

Guys, I need help. Is there any guideline on how to write a rulebook? I have most of my rules laid out as bullet points, but I'm having a hard time effectively writing them on prose.

Any help?

>>50646326
Not too fond of the modern philosophy that permeates the rule set. There's basically no resource management at all because apparently that's not fun according to some people because reasons, the random encounters rule is ridiculous and dungeon exploration is pretty much handwaved in its entirety and it also has experience rules that encourage railroady plot adventuring just like most modern games.

It's better as a no rules at all narrative storytelling game than as an old school D&D-like adventure game. In short, it's nothing like D&D.

>>50646849

This seems good enough that I'm bookmarking it for myself:

http://analoggamestudies.org/2014/10/the-rules-for-writing-rules-how-instructional-design-impacts-good-game-design/

>>50644702
Frank Mentzer himself made Official Rules Updates that he opposes today, claiming he was a "company man" back then.

>>50648760
Yeah, that seems pretty likely. He seems like an alright guy, as did Gygax, but the Dragon articles and stuff have quite a different attitude than some of their other writings.

I mean, fuck. This is the guy who wrote the Immortal set.

>>50648760
Hardly surprising, it's not even like it's somehow two-faced or dodgy considering that was literally his job. He was hired to write certain shit for TSR to help TSR sales, not to promote his own opinions on the perfect playstyle.

>>50642722
https://mega.co.nz/#!qU9AmJzS!7rQbCHUexqmBT8a-FbIPsroSCWazXaiMagFcOtJrkbQ

>>50649090
That's already removed for whatever reason. Did you remember to include the key in the link, or did it just get struck down for copyright between you copying and pasting?

>>50649090
Broken.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/m9rq51

>>50649116
It better not be the original Mega link because that's where my quals are. It's still in MageGuru's trove but I can't go linking the whole trove just for one thing, too heaty.

In any event, fresh upload >>50649153

Here's one that's not in MageGuru's trove, while the original Monstrous Collection 2.1 is. Here are some full sheets that he missed.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/vpru8w

>>50649181
...Where in the trove is it, exactly? I'm not that used to the new organization.

>>50649286
MageGuru trove, 1st Edition, 3rd party

>rolling a character just for kicks
>get to buying miscellaneous gear
>just... stop
I once really liked to buy barrels of pickled fish, but now I just want games with ready-made equipment lists. I really, really don't care about buying candles for 0.01 GP.

>>50649728
Fast-packs or just short equipment lists in general, yeah.

Like, have you ever taken a look at what OD&D's tables actually have on them? There's weapons, where you'll probably just grab one (or maybe two, if you want a bow of sorts), there's armor, there's some options for vehicles if you're in a wilderness adventure (probably not), and then there's... I dunno, general dirt-cheap adventuring gear?

The rope, pole and iron spikes are cheap to such a degree that they'll be standard (1gp/ea), the next few are sacks/backpacks/waterskins and thus pretty much required to some degree, torches vs. lantern is a question of economy, there's a bunch of specialized high-level monster-slaying equipment like crosses, mirrors and stakes, and then there's the rations.

It looks like a pretty intimidating list, but once you get down to it it's actually fairly straight-forward. Choose weapon, choose armor, choose sack, choose light-source, and then fill up on rations and the miscellaneous supplies.

I personally agree that later editions got way out of hand, though. 1E has things sorted into categories, which is nice, but why the hell do you need to know the price of boots and belts and hats? Why are chickens, equistrian equipment and four separate types of boxes on the lists?

And then 2E gets even more out of hand, of course, and I seem to remember that even Basic was pretty bad. Also, everything is in various denominations - OD&D had everything in GP, but starting with AD&D torches are 0.005GP and a pint of wine is 10sp (0.5gp) and ugh.

Yeah, ready-made equipment lists are the shit.

File: Sabres_Witchery v1(1).pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>50650047
>Yeah, ready-made equipment lists are the shit.
They are. Related, probably.

One thing I think should be part of any game with mid to high levels of lethality (not just OSR) is ease and speed of chargen. Don't make players choose a metric load of little choices if they stand a good chance of getting whacked out of the game the first time a roll goes against them.

>>50650320
>One thing I think should be part of any game with mid to high levels of lethality (not just OSR) is ease and speed of chargen. Don't make players choose a metric load of little choices if they stand a good chance of getting whacked out of the game the first time a roll goes against them.
Agreed. I've always used random roll along with a small amount of class-based kit (e.g. a weapon for Fighting-Men; spellbook for M-Us, lockpicks for Thieves).

So I've been thinking about turns lately:

do you think the 10-minute turns are vital to the OSR-experience?

>>50650460
Do you mean specifically the 10-minute length, or the concept of the exploration turn as such? Because for the former, no (and if you find the Basic one move or action per turn restrictive, you could always use the OD&D two moves or one action, which incidentally demonstrates there's room for flexibility), but the latter, absolutely.

I think the flank of /osrg/ who come for the easy, free rules and the creative modules will probably give me some hate for saying so, but for actual old-school revival, recreating the original playstyle, I think it's crucial. Turns are vital to what we sometimes call the "exploration loop" and similar in these threads (I don't know if there's an established term for it, but I wish there were, it's such a core concept), which creates the risk and tension of dungeon exploration. Most of OD&D is honestly incredibly robust, but the loop is fragile; taking shit out of it can really easily damage the way it works.

That doesn't mean you necessarily need to make the players fully aware of it to the extent of "okay, Turn 5, what do you do?"; as long as you can track it yourself, that's fine. They should grasp the basic tradeoffs, though, like that heavier armor means slower movement and thus exploration.

>>50650460
10 minutes is a good baseline for "turns", and "turns" are good when you know something is supposed to take long enough that something might happen meanwhile. Don't know if it's vital but it's helpful.

How do you usually narrate/present villages and open areas? I have a hard time describing it in a way that makes players get a coherent picture and recognize the choices they have.

>>50650460

I think turns, specifically 10 minute turns, are great because that particular unit of time at least in my mind is really well suited to adventuring.

Like if you go down a hallway pressing each tile with a 10 foot pole or a thief has to pick a lock 10 minutes is a really good 'approximate' amount of time for how long that takes. It probably doesn't take 10 minutes for a thief to pick a standard lock but the party first has to discuss it and tell him to do it, then he's gotta size it up and get out his tools, then he opens the lock and everyone greedily takes what's inside, etc. You can see how basic actions like this take 10 minutes or so, and how wandering monster checks could occur from this. Especially from noise.

I don't know, I think maybe I've just internalized the concept because I've played and studied OSR so long but that's just my opinion.

>>50651868
Build the entire thing in LEGO, to scale (4 studs = 5 feet) in full color and populate with every NPC and minor town character.

Nebin Pendlebrook's Perilous Pantry is a pretty great funnel adventure for DCC, I highly recommend it. I like that it actually has spot where players can find a magic scroll and get a taste of DCC's spellcasting. It's also got some fun monsters and room traps. Pretty great introduction adventure to the system.

I'd share it but I don't know anything about removing watermarks.

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>>50651868
>How do you usually narrate/present villages and open areas? I have a hard time describing it in a way that makes players get a coherent picture and recognize the choices they have.

Pick out the major landmarks and their directions, and then describe the spaces in-between. Give more detail if the players ask.

For a village, I give a short description of the "main drag" with quick audio/visual cues. Is there a smithy? They might hear the smith working (them clanks from the anvil carry a LONG way). Tannery? Godawful stink. Potters can charcolliers will put up a lot of smoke when they're working as well. Churches were usually built on a hill near the center of town, and you can see the spire from a good ways away, so that gives you a constant directional cue. If there's an inn or public house, it'll usually be the biggest non-church building in a village. If there's a market day, the towns all around might be damned near empty (with grumpy kids left behind to watch the stock..), or there could be a fair down by the water.

Medieval villages (as opposed to towns or manors) were usually built one-house-deep along a road, with family plots out behind the houses for growing your food, plus a communal pen for livestock and cotes or houses for your smaller animals out back. Somewhere nearby would be a river or stream. There weren't really large "cross-streets" in a small village, especially since there was a certain amount of superstition about crossroads in the era. So just standing at the entrance to town will tell you a hell of a lot.

Manses will have a small fortified area surrounding the house itself and then clusters of outbuildings on each major area the locals are working. So the animal drovers might have a dozen buildings clustered around the corrals, the farmers would live near the fields, then the mill would have a setup for the miller's family, and the dedicated shops for the skilled workers (carter, blacksmith, etc.) would be by the main house.

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>>50652475
So, to describe this scene to the players, I might say, "A large green hill dominates the view, probably a quarter-mile off. a small group of men are at the top, and you see a dust-cloud on the road running on the far side of the hill. A good-sized river runs east-west from here parallelling the track a mile or two away, and on the opposite bank you seen the smoke of a good-sized town. The weather is hot but clear, the terrain is close-cropped farm and pasture-land as far as you can see, and clouds are looming over the shadows of the foothills twenty miles to the south".

The players might want to know more but including everything would overburden the description. For example, they might ask about the wind (from the south? Is it going to rain soon? how do the clouds look?), more details about the dudes (are they lookouts? having a picnic?), the dust-cloud (cargo-waggon), the river (can we see a ford or bridge?) or the town itself (can't make out much from this distance, although the hill would probably let you see more).

Faiths & Avatars style AD&D 2E collection of all published specialty priests / deity info for Greyhawk setting rather than Forgotten Realms.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/l4ujzl

>>50652657
This is kind of unrelated, but the way you write that you narrate, is that how it usually is in your games as well? I'm asking because I often see similar stuff all over the place, but my own style of narrating is much "looser" than this.

Like, if I would narrate what you have written down in my own style, it would probably be something like:
"So there's this big hill that you can see a bit further away, and it looks like there are some dudes there. Like, you can see silhouettes. There's also like this cloud of dust on a road going up the hill. You can also see a river a bit further away as well, and on the other side of the river is neat little town. It also looks like some clouds are coming in."

Don't really know why I'm asking, but it just dawned on me that I never see my own style of narration anywhere. Maybe it's because it sucks.

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>>50653954
I usually include the distances or a timeframe to get to the feature, just because it helps the players scale everything. The tone gets more or less informal as we play, depending on how much into it everyone (including me) is getting; players will often be interrupting me before I'm done, so I might have to hurry part of it. I don't get >too< purple with anything, but throwing the odd two-dollar word in helps set the scene's emotion (see "dominates" and "looming over the shadows..", which both add a subtle tension into the scene). Then again, I talk like that IRL too.

There's nothing wrong with the more informal style you're presenting; it gets the critical information across, and the players see the primary choices ahead of them just as well. And frankly, if you're comfortable at the table, that will make you a better GM, because that means you'll be feeling (and projecting) more confidence. It just doesn't look as flashy in print, so most people avoid it there as a matter of style.

>>50653954
Not that guy but I can say I don't go nearly as hard on the prosy adjectives at the table. "Close-cropped farm and pasture-land" would just be "farmland", forget all the stuff about clouds. Not because his sucks or anything, on the contrary -- just, we're doing verbal interplay here, we have to move at a clip. That's how I feel, anyway.

I find I can go more literary in my descriptions over chat, where I do most of my RP these days. Helps that I can type up a more detailed description faster than I can say it.

(And that reminds me I haven't played face to face in years. Goddammit.)

>>50632597

This may or may not be your cup of tea, but I've had good luck using tables to randomly generate each god's portfolio. You still need to come up with rituals, holy symbols, etc., but for me the basic description is usually evocative enough to kick things off.

Here's some examples of the output:

>Sebas, goddess of sensuality, the arts, and deception
>Nidabu, god of truth, the hunt, and the sun
>Lameti the Patient, god of fear, agony, and prosperity
>Belil the Great, goddess of oceans, healing, and spiders
>Pakhenet the Subtle, goddess of strength, shadows, and lead
>Djehenpet the Watchful, goddess of autumn, torment, and deception
>Ishar the Tortured, goddess of loss, the arts, and springtime
>Kishnan, god of thieves, agriculture, and excision
>Gusun, goddess of copper, cats, and the winds

Lemme know if this is your steez -- I can tell you more about how I generated them.

>>50654490
>Ishar the Tortured, goddess of loss, the arts, and springtime
Her symbol better be the loss art.

>>50654352
Yeah I usually keep stuff like this simple. I'll give a brief description like "small village divided by a lazy creek with a simple wooden bridge branching from the main road" and then give a quick rundown of various relevant locations like shops and smithies or inns. If the party is new to the area we're adventuring in I'll give a bit more detail about the surrounding landscape, describing any mountains or forests or other relevant markers within sight.

Most people know what you mean when you say "small village", "quiet hamlet", or "simple farmstead". Add a few colorful adjectives about the state of the village or weather to give a sense of time and history, then just let the player's imaginations fill in the rest themselves. I find it makes for a more engaged party as they tend to imagine certain things and will ask questions or want to explore more into things like that.

The only time I worry about mapping out a town and really getting into details is if the party will be there for awhile setting up some sort of HQ or the quest causes them to return often. Or if it's a major city, then I'll draw up some basic maps of disctricts and notes.

>>50654477
Start something over Skype and roll20. Please I need a game to play

>>50607440

Give Fighters +1 fight dice per round. They can blow all of them on one attack to get an easy hit and a good combat move, or they can spread them out for multiple attacks.

Also fun idea- everyone gets 2 attack die per turn but your weapon gives a third. Knives only d4 but that means a higher chance of combat manuvers working. Then again small weapons would already have enough disadvantage from small damage. You could also try the one roll combat system- attack roll minus AC equal to damage.

>>50655135

*fighters get +1 fight dice per round per level

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>>50654545

>>50654490
I'd be keen on hearing about that. I'm having a great time think about how that first god's portfolio would influence the approach to relationships in setting.

>>50650047
I believe the idea behind putting commoner type shit down in the equipment list is to give the person some sort of standard for which to base the economy on. As someone who is terrible at economics, trying to shoehorn a made up price for something without a basis for it is kinda hard, especially if you have players that are a little more learned than you and will tear apart your statements to bend the game world to be their bitch.

>>50655808
>As someone who is terrible at economics

D&D is pretty terrible at it. But then again all games are, even though pricing can be reasonably believable they don't account for lots of things. So I didn't find any value in making it plausible.

>>50656250
Say that when you get people who understand economical theories well enough to teach you them in mid-session. Everything turns into fucking spice and wolf.

I swear to god, one campaign that I'm actually glad ended early was one where the players were taking or making the land deeds to ANYTHING they cleared out.

Wizard Tower? "Ours now."
Ancient Evil Dungeon? Open on the market at low, monthly financing
Bar in the middle of the city that was a front for a mob? They cast hold person on the owner until he coughed up the deed and 'legally' signed it over to them to resell.

It was a fucking nightmare.

>>50656448

>PC landgrabs and racketeering

That's a whole new spin on murderhoboism.

>>50656483
Luckily, I put an end to that shit real fast. Or, more or less, they did it themselves.

I was never really one for "lolsomurderhoboXD" type shit in my games, but back then, I was still under the middle-tier DM fallacy of "let them do EVERYthing they want!" What finally snapped me out of it was their second-to-last act in-game, where they found an evil cult member and tried to torture him for information pointlessly. I admonished them for it and forced them to remove the "good" part off of their alignments and pettily made their plans fail anyways.

Soon after that, one of the players made a bizarre attempt to usurp my game, had THEIR game crumble, and now no one in that group is playing ANY games. Fuck 'em.

File: OSR Cat.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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I semi-ironically made stats for a house cat upon request in the Discord sever.

>>50656982
>save as Fighter
You. I like you.

Gonna do two 1d20 tables. First two replies get to pick what their topic is.

If no replies, I'll do dungeon-related stuff.

>>50657445
Non-combat magic/special items.

>>50657445
Valuable clothing as treasure.

>>50650674
>>50650952
>>50651946


Thanks guys / gals,

So it really does emphasize the exploration / resource management loop? I ask because I've been debating whether to run my next campaign in my OSR / house-ruled B/X, or in 5e with a few house-rules, and as I compared the two I especially noted 5e missed the whole exploration turn structure (and reactions, and retainers, and xp for gold, and...)

>>50656448
Why did you even let them do this? Written land deeds in a largely illiterate society? Why?

You should've just told them that free peasant land is allodial and can't be transferred, while all other land belongs by default to the noble who owns the fief and must be leased from him at a fee set by himself.

>>50656448
>Wizard Tower? "Ours now."

That's not going to backfire spectacularly at all.

>>50658414
"You go to bed. The next morning you wake up in outer space."

Do people here have experience with creating player-handouts for their campaigns that list the relevant player rules?

I'm thinking about doing it and I'm making an outline right now, but it seems to me that if I want to include all player relevant info (character creation, spells, how adventuring works), I'm basically going to create my own fantasy heart-breaker (basically B/X - LotFP, with a few rules stolen from everywhere). I do have the time availible though, worth the effort? I'm estimating 15 pages.

>>50658851
Only if the player really dislikes reading and just wants to start playing immediately. I did it because of that. I don't think it's worth typing out character creation rules though. Just guide em each time they make a new one. They'll get the hang of it.

>>50658851
Making the same thing right now but I'm only doing it for players who don't know english and there's a lot of those recently.

Character creation is the most useful thing to me, because I have an open table and teaching another newbie every time gets tiresome when everyone's itching for action. Even though it's like 5-10 minutes.

Spells are good to have in a condensed form but again, my main issue here is translation so I don't know. I probably wouldn't bother otherwise but I do utilize thematic spellbooks for new characters.

Learning adventuring rules in the process is totally fine. Except maybe specify the main resolution method(s) you use.

>>50656982
>not chaotic neutral

You had one job anon

Do you prefer games with rules, mechanics, character sheets, classes and so forth more tied to the setting, or more rules neutral?

>>50660082
Solid neutral baseline is fine by me. I can make the tweaks I need usually but I love various flavors of the OSR because they provide insight. I respect modular systems like GURPS although I probably won't run a game where I have to built everything myself from scratch.
I do like some specific storygames.

>>50660082

It depends for me. I generally want a setting neutral set of rules so I can adapt it to whatever setting I have in mind.

However, there are some games where the setting is compelling, and the mechanics tie into the setting so well that it would be a shame not to use them.

>>50660082
Neutral with setting-specific supplements. Nothing beats it.

I'm currently working in converting Ravenloft to DCC using the Transylvanian Adventures book for some things and its turning out great. Half the DCC games I've played have been converted adventures from other systems with very little issues or headache.

I'm looking forward to that Lankhmar boxset of supplements and adventures they promised ages ago.

>>50658322
>Why did you even let them do this? Written land deeds in a largely illiterate society? Why?
My settings tend to be near the age of enlightenment, cause I'm not a fan of straight medieval.

Also, straight up, didn't understand medieval concept of ownership back then, where if its not within a lord's realm, then the only ownership there was is might-makes-right. NOW I've thought of ways around that, but I was naive and taken advantage of.

>>50658414

I tried to set it up so that one of the places they rented out was going to backfire because obviously evil guys took interest in it and paid a large lump sum of cash for it up front, but then they went full murderhobo and then that guy accidentally broke the whole thing, so now that's over and done with. Thank god.

>>50660570
>Also, straight up, didn't understand medieval concept of ownership back then, where if its not within a lord's realm, then the only ownership there was is might-makes-right. NOW I've thought of ways around that, but I was naive and taken advantage of.
Medieval land law is really fucking complicated and has legal figures that show up nowhere else. Written land deeds are the least weird thing to show up, and they did exist in fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudal_land_tenure

>>50652475
This actually answers a lot of questions I had pertaining to how "realistic" a village of only like 11 homes would be.

Is there a "definitive collection" or a master list of magical items for OD&D?

>>50660082
System matters a great deal, I feel. If the rules don't actually support the setting, then people are going to start noticing that something's up.. The classic example here being 3E having god-like casters and yet having the muggles ruling everything.

Classes are a good example, really, especially the Cleric. If your setting is not one where a psuedo-catholic vampire hunter fits in, the Cleric should be modified if not removed outright. Changing spell lists is also a very obvious and effective way to get your setting across; a setting where wizards can fling Fireballs onto enemy armies is quite different from one where wizards are limited to more Illusionist-esque trickery.

And, of course, the Thief only really makes sense in a dungeon unless you're emphasizing the criminal element, in which case they're also limited to urban environments. In a setting where the focus is on, say, wilderness exploration? Yeah, you'll want to bench that class or retool it into a more Ranger-esque thing. A wilderness exploration expert, to match the Thief's dungeon exploration expert. Decreased chances for getting lost, decreased chance of surprise, maybe something about difficult terrain. I dunno.

The Fighter mostly fits in any setting... unless combat is not a big thing, in which case you'll want to retool it to make it more viable in a social setting. (Really, though, without combat you'll want to retool all the classes. Maybe remove hit dice and THAC0 and whatnot entirely.)

Really, the further you go from the basic combat-heavy dungeoncrawl looting simulator the more you'll want to change in the rules. Even if it's just to remove GP=XP and combat experience and instead give experience for, say, every unexplored hex you've mapped or every social situation you've successfully navigated.

>>50661126
Not that I'm aware of, but that really depends on what you want to include.

Like, are you just talking about everything in OD&D+supplements? Is The Strategic Review included, and how about (The) Dragon? What about third-party stuff, like White Wolf or the various Judges Guild products? Or hey, what about The Dungeoneer? Also, do you count in stuff like Empire of the Petal Throne?

If you just want a compilation of the OD&D+supplements magic items, I suppose that's pretty much the AD&D DMG? Some got changed, but it's the most "complete" example I can think of. (Also, some of those desperately needed explanation.)

I want to give OSR a try, what retroclones do you guys recommend? I want something based on 'Basic' D&D, not AD&D. I was thinking ACKS because it has a lot of classes, but it has those proficiencies that look like 3.5 feats, any other suggestion?

Also, any "big" releases you think it's worth checking out?

>>50661831
Labyrinth Lord, really.

>>50661831
Basic Fantasy RPG is still my top recommendation, though its layout is fairly poor. It still has a lot of support as well as free modules produced for it. It does keep a couple things from 3.5 such as a 1-20 levelling track and a separation of race and class.
Labyrinth Lord is also worth checking out if you want a cleaned up version of B/X. You can run old adventure modules with no conversion needed using it. BFRPG can be used to run those old adventures as well but you would have to convert from descending to ascending armor class.

>>50661831
If you don't need a physical copy, I'd say go with the original: Moldvay Basic (B/X). Otherwise, most of the Basic clones out there are close enough to it (and each other) that it's hard to go too far wrong. Basic Fantasy is the obvious one if you want to split race and class, and have ascending rather than descending AC. Labyrinth Lord gives you the ability to seamlessly bring in AD&D options (and split race and class) with its Advanced Edition Companion, which is designed to be compatible with its core rules. Swords & Wizardry is OD&D, but S&W Core is based on the little brown books with the Greyhawk expansion, the same thing Basic D&D is derived from, so it's very similar.

I actually don't recommend Lamentations of the Flame Princess, unless you're specifically going for the type of setting it's geared to (gritty horror fantasy), but it has some cool mechanics that are worthy of being swiped (like encumbrance and its d6 skills). Along those lines, Swords & Wizardry's single category saves are pretty cool too.

>>50646326
Things I really like:
Armour as damage resistance that degrades. It adds a sense of dire urgency to fights.

Players rolling to avoid damage. My group seems to like it. I don't care either way, but it transitions well from other games we've played. Same for attribute rolls as-saves.

Ranges as abstractions is fine, the archer isn't going to shoot 40ft exactly every time anyway.

Things I don't like:
Usage dice. Its a cute idea, but makes it actually impossible to describe narrativly how much of a resource is left. Like if the player wants to know how many arrows they have left, they have to settle with 'lots, some, not many'. I understand its suppose to be irrelevant in the same way as ranges, but I think its a poor choice that weirdly limits game play and narrative.

The reaction roll table has no modifiers, its just a flat roll no matter what.

The out-of-action table isn't very large.

All of these are easy to house rule though. We keep track of numbers for inventory that matter, use pretty much the bx reaction roll table, and extensive bad results of violence tables are easy to find.

>>50661906
Will check it, thanks

>>50661925
>Basic Fantasy RPG
I actually like races-as-classes, it's different from what I usually play (5e)

>>50662009
>If you don't need a physical copy
I don't.

>Moldvay Basic (B/X)
This might be a good idea, is there any difference from B/X to Labyrinth Lord? A reason to run one over the other?

>Swords & Wizardry
This seems even simpler, might be good to introduce the group to OSR

>Lamentations of the Flame Princess
Yeah, it's not what I'm looking for right now (mostly because of my group, they don't like horror in general)

>>50662166
>This might be a good idea, is there any difference from B/X to Labyrinth Lord? A reason to run one over the other?
LL was meant to be as accurate a retroclone of B/X as possible. There's some really minor number adjustments for legal purposes, and LL doesn't use D&D monsters that can be copyrighted like displacer beasts and so on. Other than that, they're 99% the same.

>>50662192
So LL is good if you need a physical copy as B/X isn't printed anymore?

>>50662166

>LotFP

Despite the art and the way the modules are set up, LotFP by itself is just a streamlined B/X. There's zero horror mechanics, and the weirdest spell is probably Summon.

For me, it's my go-to BX because I like the simplicity, the Fighter is actually good at his job, the encumbrance system is neat, and the firearms appendix is perfect for my homebrew setting.

Once you're comfortable with various B/X clones (like say, LL or BFRPG) I'd give LotFP another look. You may like the mechanics (you can always ignore the art or get the artless PDF).

>>50662212
Sure, but LL also comes in PDF form.
http://www.goblinoidgames.com/docs/GBD1001_no_art.zip
http://www.goblinoidgames.com/docs/GBD1002_no_art.zip

What's the difference between Classic Traveler and Mongoose Traveler?

What's your background music, /osrg/? I'm becoming partial to dungeon synth.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChmm356a5qe1luUsoatAgjA

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>>50655503
I know right? Glad you like it.

Basically, I have a spreadsheet (the "back end") with a list of names, a list of epithets, and a list of domains (each list in its own column). A formula on another sheet (the "front end") uses a random-number generator to pick a name, a gender, an epithet (50% of the time), and three domains (from the respective columns), then strings them together into a sentence, mad-libs style.

The names are generated by Markov chains (over at http://www.nexi.com/fun/rw/rwcgi.cgi), based on three sets of input (Egyptian, Sumerian, and Greek deity names). The epithets I made up; the domains are stolen from Abulafia (I forget which exact page).

The main downside is that there's no way for the formula to check if a domain has already been used. I included enough domains that this usually isn't an issue, but you'll still occasionally get something like "...god of the hunt, the hunt, and spiders". And of course, if you generate multiple gods, some of them may have domains in common (which can either be a bug or a feature, depending on your perspective).

I actually have a bunch of similarly-constructed random generators for character concepts, dungeon themes, encounters, and the like... I just need to figure out how to share them

>>50662503
Traveller general archivist here. Here's a quick rundown of CT vs MGT1:
Simpler faster chargen vs more detailed, slower chargen.
Armor as hit reduction vs armor as damage reduction.
More options for personal and ship combat rules, and more options in general in CT.
Simultaneous turn resolution in personal combat, vs an initiative system
Very different animal encounter systems
CT has fewer, more powerful skills, at least with standard chargen - later books started making things more like MGT with more narrow cascade skills and such
CT has better books outside of core, as Mongoose's review and editing practices suck
CT has no unified resolution mechanic unless you add one (there are two or three out there), it relies more on referee adjudication a la old school D&D.
Rolling good stats is less important in CT than MGT1 - skills interact less with your stats and more with the world. (E.g. the bribery skill in CT relies mostly on the law level of the world. Oppressive bureaucratic dictatorships will give you a better chance of bribing someone than a small world run by a ruling family. In MGT your chances of success are always the same whatever the world)

(I personally like the whole adjudication thing, because you can roll against almost anything, since everything has the same basic scale.)

>>50663238
I might as well ask here as I the Traveller thread disappeared. Which edition is the one that says "Mark Miller's Traveller" on the cover with no edition mentioned. Seems like it's the 4th? I just picked it up as a spur of the moment thing for real cheap, wondering if it's a decent version to look into running.

>>50663808

Yeah, that's usually known as T4. It's got some cool ideas, but the editing was a terrible clusterfuck, like nobody had seen before in Travellertown. (And wouldn't until some the shittier Mongoose books came along)
If you apply the errata it's workable, but most people treated it the way they did the other editions -- as a source of stuff to steal and bolt onto the game they're already playing.

Okay, so let's imagine I want to run a really nice cookie cutter dungeon that has traps, tricks, monsters and flare and fits drinking beer and watching your rolled in order characters die and die.

What modules exist that let me DM a game like that? The quint essential d&d dungeon experience. Something like if you'd roll up the dungeon yourself, but a bit more refined.

>>50664580
Keep on the Borderlands would probably do fine with that beer-and-pretzels playstyle, to be honest?

>>50664580
Pretty much any Dungeon Crawl Classics adventure. You can either run them with DCC or covert them to a different system rather easily.

>>50664697
I've seen keep mentioned sometimes, but it doesn't really stand out to me as a classic dungeon crawl? Although I can see how it de facto is, being one of the earliest published such.

>>50664706
That probably actually is what I'm looking for, like the funnel stuff is really "watch 'em die and laugh about it" right?

>>50664743
Yeah pretty much. Funnels tend to weed out most of the characters. Sailors of the Starless Sea is pretty much the go-to funnel.

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>>50664580
Any of the B1-4 series should work. I like the Lost City more personally, but that's mostly opinions.

Tomb Of The Iron God is cool if you're into undead, classic dungeon, easy to add stuff to.

Advanced Adventure's Beneath The Heart Of Empire is a sewer dungeon with neat stuff in it for low levels.

Someone on /tg/ made pdf related. It pretty much does all the things you want in a classic way.

>>50664873
Lost City's pretty heavy on the NPC interactions and whatnot, though - if you just go in hacking and slashing you're going to have one hell of a bad time if none of the factions are allied with you.

Mostly because you don't have any place to rest.

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>>50662166
>I actually like races-as-classes, it's different from what I usually play (5e)
Me too. I didn't used to, but I do now. Though it bears mentioning that Dwarves and Halflings in Basic are essentially just fighters with some racial abilities stacked on top, and thus aren't that different from separate race and class characters who are restricted to fighters (which is actually how they started off in OD&D). Only elves are particularly distinct, and they're essentially AD&D-style multiclass fighter/magic-users. Basic Fantasy has a brief section that covers this:

>Combination Classes
>To become a member of a combination class, a character must meet the requirements of both classes. Combination class characters use the best attack bonus and the best saving throw values of their original two classes. One combination class is mentioned in the Elf racial description:

>Fighter/Magic-User: These characters may both fight and cast magic spells; further, they are allowed to cast magic spells while wearing armor. A Fighter/Magic-User must gain experience equal to the combined requirements of both base classes. Elven Fighter/Magic-Users roll six-sided dice (d6) for hit points.

So if you played Basic Fantasy and just restricted halflings and dwarves to being fighters, and elves to being combination class fighter/magic-users, you'd end up with something pretty close to the race-as-class versions.

>>50662166
>This might be a good idea, is there any difference from B/X to Labyrinth Lord?
They're very similar. See pic.

>>50664972
Oh yeah, they'll die a lot if they're assholes, but it seemed like that was the intention.

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What's the most OSR thing your players have done during a session?

Mine aren't that used to both OSR and RPGs in general, but a couple sessions ago I had them find a bag of fake gold coins and they figured out that it was fake by checking its weight and comparing it to the actual gold coins that they had.

>>50666249
I had a group playing B2, by some drugs from some dude hanging out in the inn and then go out into the woods to take them. They ran into the hermit and went back to his place to get high and then cut off his leg when he turned on him. After stuffing his mouth with his sling, they dragged him back to the keep and watched him get impaled.

>>50645293
Whoa you're the best!!!!!!!!!! may your true love treat you to a dinner tomorrow

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>>50666561

>tfw no gf

But hey, you're welcome.

>>50666249
I was playing at the time (a surprising break from foreverDMing) but still am pretty proud of us all even though a fair bit of luck was involved. Long story short, we trapped The God That Crawls after all and then the game degraded into the worst act of Monty Haul ever known to our LotFP sessions. Just shameless looting of the place after successfully getting rid of the only source of the tension in the adventure. Pretty OSR, I think.

>>50666364
What a joyful bunch!

>>50664580
Barrowmaze and Dwimmermount both have some claim to being a very classic type of huge-o dungeon that can be successfully beer-and-pretzelled.

If you don't care so much about D&D aesthetics as you do about the D&D play experience, Anomalous Subsurface Environment is very creative and full of surprises.

>>50666249
From my favorite sandboxy campaign that lasted like 3 years:

Party ended up making their base of operations in this small kingdom I designed as a sort of hub to kick off the early campaign. The king paid well for treasures and artifacts, and due to some good rolling and cleverness on the Wizard's part - he had the court convinced he was a prince of a distant kingdom - they were in good standing with the king to the point where the wizard was buttering up the princess after every adventure. For awhile it was a cycle of adventuring then the king throwing a big party and everyone getting drunk and well played.

After awhile the characters started getting restless, and OOC it was clear everyone was ready to move on. Which was good because I was going to introduce some royal advisor who would figure out the wizard's ruse to move things on. Before I could do that the wizard and princess ended up betrothed, I allowed it because I wanted to see what would happen, since I knew the group wanted to move on.

Night of the wedding came, lots of partying and drinking afterwards. The wizard bedded the princess, and then before morning he snuck out of the bedroom to where the rest of the party was, they all snuck down to the river, stole a boat and sailed down river to wander elsewhere. It was all very dramatic as they were almost caught numerous times.

Occasionally afterwards they'd get bounty hunters on their tail because the king put out warrants for them after the princess revealed she was pregnant. It was one of the best games I ever played.

>>50667091

That's awesome. Screencapped.

Thoughts on Castles and Crusaders? What does it do different than any of the ither similar dnd throwbacks?

>>50666249
>make cerebral parasite variety that feeds on rage
>fighter fails save, has to attack
>wait, can I attack the nearest character?
>punches self unconscious to save everyone

I like it when players come up with ways around/through problems I never would have considered.

>>50664873
That's a pretty cool little dungeon, but if I ran it I would re-work the map a bit. Add more loops/paths that lead to the same place. Circles in circles.

>>50668311
Castles & Crusades is an interesting game. It uses the unified d20 mechanic of new school D&D. That alone is enough to make it controversial in OSR circles, though I think it's actually one of the things that WotC did right with 3e. Consolidating the subsystems of D&D into a central mechanic makes good sense. It's the stuff they built on top of it that caused the problems.

Castles & Crusades uses attribute checks for things like saving throws and skill checks. For things you have a skill for, you add your class level to your attribute roll (otherwise, you just make a roll that is only modified by your attribute modifier). I personally think this progression is a bit extreme, though Swords & Wizardry uses a similar progression for its single-category saves (while saves in B/X average somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 points per level, depending on the class). Similarly, thief skills in old school D&D tend to go by about 5% per level, which is the equivalent of 1 point on a d20 roll (though this rate of progression is made possible by the fact that thief skills start out abysmally low).

The score you're trying to beat depends on whether the attribute you are using is primary (12) or secondary (18), something you establish during character creation. Demihumans get two primary attributes, while humans get three. One of these is determined by your class (fighters must select strength as one of their primary attributes, for instance), though the others can be freely chosen. This allows you to focus your character in particular direction, which I think is pretty cool. It's a little weird how it works independently of your actual attribute scores, and tends to overshadow them. If you have a 18 strength, for instance, that gives you a +3 modifier to attribute checks (and, of course, +3 to hit and +3 damage in melee), which is only half the point difference between the target numbers of a primary and secondary attribute.

>>50669901
Saving throws are also based on attribute checks (modified by your level). I like the concept of this better than the ad hoc save categories of old school D&D, though C&C unfortunately manages to botch things in a somewhat similar fashion to new school D&D. Saving throws start out hard to make and don't get any easier, as casters add their level to their spell challenge levels (meaning that spells get harder to save against at the exact same rate that you get better at saving against them). This is very easily fixed (add only half a caster's level to his spell's challenge level), but it's a glaring oversight.

I find C&C's weapon and armor lists to be ludicrously long and cluttered (25 types of armor, 11 types of helmets, etc.), though its Quick Start rules have a pared down list I find much more palatable. Otherwise though, I think C&C does a good job of streamlining AD&D, and retaining an old school feel even with it's new school central mechanic. It isn't afraid to change class powers around a bit, but still manages to stay true to the spirit of the original, for the most part. I'm very fond of the fact that it does away with vancian magic for rangers, paladins and bards. AD&D lazily tacked vancian magic onto classes to the point where almost 2/3 of classes eventually ended up being vancian casters. In C&C, those classes get other powers.

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Is there an OSR game that is a clone of AD&D 2E that has attack progression akin to 3e and later games (where you get +s instead of -s) and the AC scales up instead of down?

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>>50670118

You could just do it yourself?

>>50670090
Sounds interesting enough to check out, if I can scrounge up a group.

Been a while since I've come here.

What's the best rules-light AD&Desque system?

Is The Black Hack still the flavor of the month?

Did the guy running the BFRPG campaign say why he canceled it?

>>50670703

>best rules-light AD&Desque system?

Labyrinth Lord + AEC is still tops IMO.

>The Black Hack

I'd say its fifteen minutes came and went pretty fast.

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>>50670118
>>50670203
Here's a thing where the math is already done for you.

>A red pleasant land
>Narcosa
>Red tide
>Qelong
>Yoon Suin
>Vornheim
>Dark Albion
>Slumbering ursine dunes
Any other OSR related campaign settings I should check out? There is so much stuff that it's hard to keep track of it.

>>50670866
If you liked SUD then the other stuff from Hydra Collective is pretty good.
Fever Dreaming Marlinko and Misty Isles of the Eld.
Anomalous Subsurface Environment is great if you like gonzo post-apocalyptic science-fantasy.

>>50661126
Yeah the damn Encyclopedia Magica and omit every item that doesn't cite an OD&D source.

>>50670866
Anomalous Subsurface Environment

>>50670866
>AD&D
Dark Sun
Al-qadim
Role-Aids Undead

>OSR
In the Shadow of Mount Rotten
Spears of the Dawn

>other
Nyambe

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>>50670866
Weird Adventures is a good one, as is the recent The Nightmares Underneath(the latter also having some interesting rules, and makes for a beautiful physical book as well)

>>50664991
I know that advancing as a combination class effectively doubles your XP requirements to level, but but does that adequately balance how comparatively powerful they are in the long run?

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Has anyone had any experience running a Mazes & Minotaurs game? Any opinions or suggestions about it?

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>>50672996
Not really, no. Because XP roughly doubles each level (until you reach name level, anyway), this puts you about a level behind single-class characters. So instead of being an X7, you could be an X6/Y6, which is generally more powerful (at least once you're past the first few levels, when lagging a level behind is a huge deal: X3 vs X2/Y2, for instance). But this is common to versions of old school D&D that allow multiclassing, and even to Basic, where elves are de facto fighter/magic-users. Your choice is to live with the imbalances (since multiclass-characters will be on the same team with single-class characters, and not in direct competition) or homebrew something to even things out (pic related).

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>>50673518
Another, more involved, scheme, this time for handling explicitly multiclass characters (rather than race-as-class). Use the "Strong" column if you want to play it safe, and err on the side of muliclass progressions being closer to what they are in the rules-as-written.

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>>50672996
>>50673518
>>50673575
Castles & Crusades addresses this issue by imposing an additional XP cost for multiclass characters (which increases as they level) as seen on the table in the pic here. It's a step in the right direction, but it's relatively minor, truth be told, increasing XP costs by only about 1/20 of your combined class requirements.

>>50673705
BFRPG gives humans +10% experience, so you can see this as a counterbalance to demi-human abilities, like the elf's ability to be combination fighter/magic-users. Of course, a +10% bonus to experience really doesn't make up for the power of multi-classing, let alone the other racial powers demi-humans have on top of that.

>>50670866
Points of Light I and II are generic but really well done and useful hexcrawls from Rob Conley. For me these are what I once hoped FR would be: solid, not-too-weird background to easily plop stuff in.

Majestic Wilderlands is a terrific S&W rules-and-setting supplement from the same guy, inspired by Wilderlands of High Fantasy from Judge's Guild.

Is there a particular reason why so many OSR games have turns split into movement, missile, and then melee? Would anything important be lost if one scrapped that for just "move and take your action" style turns?

>>50676005
It's a B/X way of doing stuff, but comes down to a preference, really. It can probably be useful with large groups which are normal for oldschool D&D so that you have a clear order of resolving things. Also initiative is done by side, so that's another reason. It does favor range attackers somewhat. Not much is lost if you just go for an individual initiative, except the chaotic beauty of rerolling initiative every round.

>>50670866
World of the Lost

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Can I get some good Tables/PDFs/Ideas or anything for aid in making a good post-apocalyptic setting?

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>>50676895
While I don't think the actual mechanics are anything special, Gamma World is a great setting if you you like future apocalypse stuff with crazy mutations and shit. I gather a lot of people go zany and silly with it, but I run it deadly serious, treating the weird results (a bipedal otter with two heads, antlers and "laser" eyes) as bizarre and disturbing rather than going for yucks.

>>50676980
Has anyone played with White Wolf's version of GW? I've heard that it's much more amenable to serious play and dials down the gonzo, but I don't really know much about it.

>>50676980
>>50677079
Gamma World is a pretty good go-to for that sort of thing. I haven't tried White Wolf's version though it's easy to turn the silly stuff into serious shit like that anon said.

Also I've heard good things about Mutant Crawl Classics but haven't had a chance to try it myself yet. If it's anything like DCC then I imagine it's full of tables and randomizers for some really wild and dangerous stuff.

Being inspired by that Dark Souls post, how good of an idea do you think this optional reaction rule is:
When attacked, and the attack roll exceeding your AC, if you haven't acted in this round yet, you may choose to Dodge or Defend with your Shield(if you carry one)
A dodge is a Dex roll, trying to reach the attacker's attack roll. It sacrifices a move and moves you half of your movement. Encumbrance and Armor gives you penalties. Success negates all damage, failure none.
A shield action is a Str roll, trying to reach the attacker's attack roll. It sacrifices a full action, but gives you no penalties. Success still inflicts 1 damage, but failure still halves it.

>>50677079
d20 Modern is an abomination. I have heard that 6th edition takes itself more seriously, but I couldn't get very far into the book before the mechanics pissed me off enough that I had to walk away. Maybe I'll go back and some point and try to read over it just for the fluff. Regardless, I don't think there's anything about the editions I'm familiar with (which doesn't include 7th edition, which I've heard is extra zany) that prevents you from taking them seriously.

>>50654490
If you somehow are able to share this, I'd be amazed.
Great stuff!

>>50677145
I would be careful with that dodge rule; if you track things like characters engaged in hand-to-hand combat this is a free defensive move, that doesn't have to be declared.

Is your goal to give players something to do on the enemies turn, or do you just want more defensive options?

>>50677145
>Dex roll
>STR roll

I assume this is d20 plus attribute modifiers? I could try it out for a session. See how it goes. I suspect it might slow down combat though. Especially if monsters can do it. If it was me I'd make this Fighter only, but then again I love Fighters.

>>50677145
>When attacked, and the attack roll exceeding your AC, if you haven't acted in this round yet, you may choose to Dodge or Defend with your Shield(if you carry one)
This gives lower initiative people an advantage they didn't used to have before. It may still be better to act first, but in doing so, you have deprived yourself of the ability to dodge / defend. If you wanted to not disadvantage folks who have already acted, maybe they could "borrow" their action from their next turn.

Personally though, I'd be more inclined to make it a flat roll (as somebody's dexterity has already been taken into account when their opponent attacked them). Maybe give a 2 in 6 chance to avert the blow, but at the expense of penalizing your next turn (but not canceling it, as it's boring not to be able to do anything on your turn)--maybe giving a 3 in 6 chance that your action will fail (if you do something that requires a check). Or better yet, roll two dice at the same 2-in-6 chance, and if either one scores, your action fails. It would still make sense to defend under those circumstances, because the defense would be trying to negate a blow that would otherwise, with 100% certainty, land (and possible take you out of commission in the process). Meanwhile the two-die check for your next turn might negate an attack that was destined to miss anyway.

>>50677225
Kind of both. I always had the issue that when having new players, and describing an enemy closing in and slashing at them, they just automatically start describing a counteraction.
And in a way, that's really natural.
So I just wanted to give them a few options in such cases on how exactly to handle it mechanically.
>>50677244
Honestly, I just thought to keep it a player-only option.
>>50677247
That's actually also something somewhat intentional, similar to how a magic-user may be in an advantageous situation when spellcasting and losing initiative - he can't be countered when the spell goes off at the start of the next round.
Winning initiative is still advantageous as it lets you do things. A defensive action may save you instantly, but if not used carefully can end up in getting steamrolled as you lost an action and without ally intervention get put at a huge disadvantage.

>>50677145
Dodge gets to negate all damage on success and just consumes a move action? I suggest switching the cost around so dodging becomes big risk big reward.

>>50677340
Oh, hey. I missed that point. I read it as sacrificing an attack action rather than a move action. Shit, I could actually see people wanting to hold their initiative to be able to both attack and dodge (though positioning might be a bit tricky given that your dodge moves you... still, it would be great for ranged attacks).

>>50677340
>ough positioning might be a bit tricky given that
>>50677411
Keep in mind that it's rather easy to ramp up dodge penalties, so unless you're literally carrying almost nothing, it won't have a big success chance. You also need a place to dodge to, so it highly depends on your surroundings.

People here seem to like Dark Souls... Thoughts on importing DS's pyromancers into osr?

Anyone have the new LotFP adventures? I wanna be able to skim through them before making a physical purchase.

>Anomalous Subsurface Environment (Already got ASE1)
>In the Shadow of Mount Rotten
>Misty Isles of the Eld
>Majestic Wilderlands
I couldn't find these in the trove, maybe I'm dumb. Also, thanks everyone for the suggestions!

>>50680202
>Swords&Wizardry>Supplements>SupplementIV The Majestic Wilderlands
>Labyrinth Lord>Adventures>Sandbox-In the Shadow of Mount Rotten
Isles was posted last thread but I don't think it or ASE2-3 or in the trove.