Horus Heresy General /hhg/

I NEED POWER RANKINGS
POWER RANKINGS FOR LEGION SUPER HEAVIES
i want to get one for my iron hands but i dont know which one

>>50656369
nah, I've got the book in front of me

>The power armour worn by the Battle Sisters of the Orders Militant is based on the same archaic systems as that worn by the brethren of the Adeptus Astartes. It provides the same degree of armoured protection, yet must forego the more advanced life-support and strength enhancing abilities used by the Space Marines, as the Sisters of Battle are not implanted with the black carapace that allows the Astartes to interface fully with their own armour.
Basically the more esoteric stuff that the marines get by being consciously linked to their armour has to be omitted (I'd imagine a marine could use his armour's own power supply to jumpstart a failing heart, for example), but actual protection is the same.

the helm section on the same page also says
>The standard pattern worn by the majority of the Battle-Sisters since the mid 38th millennium, this helm contains an integral rebreather, allowing the Sister to operate in total vacuum for limited periods.

Which would be a bit pointless if your suit ain't sealed as well.

>>50656434
>actual protection is the same

According to Inquisitor, Marine armour gets additional layers of protection over regular power armour.

>>50656475
space marines in inquisitor were a mistake

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>>50656491
>space marines were a mistake

Ye Olde Thread
>>50649068

Can Alpha Legion Terminator squads use Venom Spheres?

>>50656384
Fell Chasis:
#1 Fellblade. Fifteen barrels of hell. All round flat good.

#2 Fellglaive. Good at killing anything, but expensive. Running it up a flank to get the line across a bunch of units will do serious damage.

#3 Falchion. Expensive, mandatory neutron upgrade(also expensive) to make it not shit. Will do great against other superheavies, but a sicaran venator or two, even a cerberus will do better.

Knights:
#1 Atrapos - Black hole gun, and a giant lightsaber. Pure pain.

#2 Acheron. AP3 Hellstorm template.

#3 Crusader. Dakkadakka

Baneblade Chasis:
#1 Stormsword. Typhon on steroids. 10" S10 low AP ignores cover blast.

#2 Baneblade.Fellblade-lite. Just get a fellblade.

#3 Stormlord. 40 capacity multi unit party wagon with BRRRRRT

Spartan Chasis:

#1 Typhon. 7" S10 AP1 ignores cover blast, plus great thunderblitz.

#2 Cerberus. Not bad, great if you know theres other super heavies

Overall:
Stormsword, Atrapos, Fellblade.


Also was looking at the list: Minotaurs? Whats with the rear flare shield? Its not even a super heavy why is it a LoW for marines?

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>>50656368
>Fix shit units edition

>>50656551
>Will do great against other superheavies

Also Spartans. D-2=D.

Heavy Support Squad with Lascannons or Tac Support Squad with Calivers for my Siege Breaker? Gonna throw them in a box with a apothecary

>>50656809
S6 with re-roll isn't gonna do much against many vehicles.

So an anon did seem to have objections to me putting vexilia on the Sergeant of a squad. I knew it's not exactly how it's supposed to be but I wonder, does it have an impact on the game play?
I kinda like how it acts as a focal point for the squad.

I'm thinking of getting the Dark Angels Battleforce and doing a bit of trimming to use the bikes and Landspeeder as Emperor's Children. By the looks of it, removing the swords and full DA iconography would be easy enough with an x-acto knife and some patience, or swapping out anything that would be too difficult. But I'd still get tons of wing motifs that I could put to use, and spares for other vehicles/doods. Does this sound like a good idea?

>>50656587

Man, I WISH my Seraphim had that sort of upgrades they could take.

>>50657317
Why not give him the vox and a special weapon while you're at it, if you don't care about the rules.

>>50657345
That's a good idea anon. I might give him 2 crewmen and a Basilisk cannon though. Fits the IW.

Some equipment questions

How should I equip my Primaris medicae with cataphractii armor? Should I just give him a power axe and be done or should I give him thunder hammer so he can actually fight things?

Secondly, what's a good third loadout for a contemptor dreadnought? I have double Kheres built and double grav fist built and seeking to do something with the third. I'm thinking conversion beamer + something.

>>50657609
Is the Primus medicae hanging out in a squad with another character that can handle duels? If so, just keep him cheap.

>>50656551
Do you mean stormblade instead of stormsword?

You are talking about the big ass plasma gun one right?

>>50658214
Well, he said "typhon on steroids", so Stormsword is probably the correct one. You know, the one with the short range 10" blast that Ignores Cover.

Man, I just love it how D has gone from strong to must have to "meh" tier at best. Now it's all high Str., low AP Ignores Cover.

>>50658508
There's no stormsword option in the Redbook

>>50656524
Sorry mate, that's a no-go.

From the age of darkness legions book:
>this option may be chosen by any frag grenade equipped Praetor, centurion or consul, tech marine or apothecary for 5pts each, replacing their frag grenades.

Since terminator armour replaces all other wargear, none of these guys would have frags to swap.

>or by vetetanus tactical, seeker or destroyer squads at 25pts per squad

Since none of these squads can take termie armour, that doesn't work either.

Still, you can take Lernean terminators with a venom sphere harness, which can still give you hammer of wrath.

Oh, and make sure you take your saboteur with a combat augment array :^)

>>50658569
>combat augment array
That's a relic though, so most of the time that's out of the question.

>>50658586
Wait, so when can relics be used? The only restrictions I could find was when using them in a campaign. As far as I could tell, it was normal relic rules otherwise.

>>50658613
They require express consent from your opponent, they are not generic wargear.

In other words, don't count on using them, some of those things are downright silly in terms of power.
If you and your opponent don't mind using them, then go right ahead obviously, but I wouldn't bring a list with a relic to a FLGS unless you and your opponent agreed beforehand on using them.

Did anyone have any dreams lately?

>>50658867
I dream of a Storm sword with autokrator upgrades. I've modeled it with servitors crawling over it like the guy on top of the macrocarid and bits that create that mechanicum motif on the armor.

I also dreamt of an Acheron with admech style plating and head as an alt kit, to go with my Atropos.

>>50658867
I've been having stress dreams about returning my counterfeit Mortarion

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>>50658954
I had a dream that involved pic related and an Imperial fleet going up against an Ork space station. The strangest part is that Hillary was in it, and I caused her to die by cutting her parachute.
>>50658961
You poor soul.

>>50658976
It hurts my every fiber

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>>50659157
There, there. Just be glad you're not Morty.

>>50658543
You can take super-heavies that are not in the book, and give them SM crew for 15pts.

Played one of my first games of HH this weekend, My world eaters vs Imperial fists with a friend. We are both learning the basics so It became a game where the Imperial fists were shooting down a marines or two a turn as I ran to get stuck in.

It was a fair game for the most part with me having a squad of 10 Vets with an Apothecary dealing insane amounts of attacks while escorting my 7 attack chainfist Preator towards the enemy base.

Then I killed a unit, consolidated towards his army and his HQ Sigismund charged with a few terminators.

I built my Preator to be a character hunter, but holy shit we read Sigismund's rules and he just nuked me with the first swing.

Like Holy shit! How do you kill that guy! Should I throw Kharn at him or something?

>>50658508
>>50656551
I'm confused. I thought D weapons did ignore cover in AOD games. They seemed pretty useful as a result, being able to work against a lot of stuff.

>>50659353
That's like warhammer basics : shoot the choppy guy and chop the shooty guy

>>50659353
tip, you shoot Sigismund until he dies, then you shoot him some more, just to be sure.
Sigismund is the kind of character that most Primarchs have nightmares about, because he can kill most of them before they can kill him.
He's nigh unkillable in melee, regardless of what's trying to push his shit in.

>>50659353
Outside of a primarch or Scoria, Shiggy will obliterate other characters.

Shoot him or drown him in a blob of 20 inductii (use Gahlan Surlak).

>>50659353
Sigismund doesn't have a reputation in and out of the game for nothing.

He'll curbs romp anything short of Primarch.

But that also means he'll easily get dispatched by a Primarch. Hence why some people think he's in a bad place, being a one man deathstar but too strong for anything standard under him and too weak to reliably be sent against Primarchs.

Your best bet is to shoot him to death.

>>50659371
Only D hits ignore saves, not D weapons IIRC.

Give me your predictions and/or wishlists for Inferno! Space wolves, imperial agents, or thousand sons.

I'm hoping for brotherhood of psykers purchasable upgrades across the field. Of not that, then either each character generates a warp charge for the pool, or can purchase a Mastery Level.

Sekhmet will be ML2 brotherhood with hopefully access to something besides basic power swords, and access to reaper assault cannons.

I feel that there will either be a unit of power armor/artificer armour psykers that can split off and join units/replace unit sergeants kind of like a Warlock conclave, or how necron courts used to work.

If they keep the dorky chain kopesh, I'd be fine with S:U AP:3 Rending.

Legion special rules could be that librarian consuls may fill compulsory HQ slots, and have master of the legion/rites of war. Additionally, any character may purchase a Mastery Level for 25 points. This can mean that librarians can go up to ML3. I guess this could also mean that the master of armour HQ tanks could get psychic pilot?

All models with the legiones astartes special rule gain the Adamantium Will special rule.

Any model that can purchase a powerfist may instead take a chain kopesh at the same cost.

Enumerations of the Cults: each Librarian must dedicate themselves to one of the 5 cults of the thousand sons, and must take their powers from their respective discipline. Any thousand sons psyker in your army attempting to manifest a power from that cult discipline may re-roll one die when harnessing warp charges or denying the witch.

Pavoni=Biomancy
Raptorae=Telekenesis
Pyrae=Pyromancy
Athaneans=Telepathy
Corvidae=Divination

>>50659371
It's an optional rule, which must be agreed upon. Otherwise standard 40k rules are used. AoD Destroyer rule makes the weapon Strength 10 with Instant Death, Sunder and Ignores Cover special rules. Successful invulnerable saves must be re-rolled. Unsaved wounds inflicts d3+1 wounds. Penetrating causes d3+1 hull points.

Hi /tg/,

I was wondering if any of you, who can afford Forgeworld, still purchase from Chinaman?

I've always bought forgeworld, but one of my friends just showed me his Chinacast. It's almost as good, but at a quarter of the price.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. Do I keep buying Forgeworld, or do I give my money to the Chinaman?

>>50659494
Exterminators for SW and a way to take Vets as (non-compulsory) Troops without having to take a Delegatus or losing Allies. Maybe frost blades as well.

>>50659494
I'm worried that their going to try to push more and more of the Wolves' "Executioner" motif that the books keep shoving down my throat instead of the Space Vikings I want to actually play.

Also I sadly expect them to be the mediocre assault legion, because the World Eaters already do charges, EC already do Combat Res, Blood Angels wound better, Dark Angels hit better... there isn't really a solid design space for them I fear.

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>>50659494
It's not a chain khopesh though.

>>50658569
Sorry, I meant the terminator specific one, the venom sphere harness.

>>50659504
Honestly, I earn enough money to go for FW and so I do. Also helps that I am to lazy to get into china-ing. I would just prefer FW to get more goodboy points for making bigger sales so GW leaves them to do their thing.

Do what you want, maybe buy some smaller stuff or resin tacs when your friends order china.
Troops are the only stuff wherr I am tempted to not buy at FW.

>>50659555
I feel you mate, I've been a wolf fan since 3rd edition entirely because they were Vikings. HH turned me off from them entirely once they said that it was all an act, ruined Russ for me, and made them way to subservient. Funny enough, the Khan and the White Scars are exactly what I wanted Russ to actually be, so I just switched to them, its far more enjoyable then dealing with the wolf lore these days.

>>50659504
I buy troops, Dreadnaughts, and upgrade kits like Shoulder pads and Chainaxes from Chinaman. But after trying to get some Red Butchers and them coming out completely horrible, I now only buy complex models from forge world and only grab simple things from china.

>>50659623
Woolfers got shafted in multiple ways. What I read about Ragnar Blackmane in bolterporn books was cool, but then the overwolfing happened.

The harsh reaction to get them out of this is sadly not statisfactory either.

>>50659672
It doesn't help that in the old lore, when a minor HH battle is mentioned, it usually involvs the Wolves on the losing end. They were a punching bag in old HH lore because at the time, so many other legions were considered out of commission for the entirety of the HH. Prospero was one of the few campaigns in old Heresy lore that did not last until the Heresy was finished.

>>50659743
Yeah.

BL also fucks shits up, horrible...right? I am a bit worried we will get a ten year ride with further books.

That is why I prefer headcannon and mystery.

>>50656368
I swear, it doesn't matter how many times I see it, but thone damn Alpha Legionnaires in that picture always get me.

>>50659504
Never. I stopped considering it after meeting some of the FW team in person - really great guys. They're always helpful, friendly, and enthusiastic about what they're working on. Giving my money to some soulless yellow minijew who just makes copies of others peoples' work doesn't sit right with me at all.

Also, a lot of the people I've met who buy recasts tend to not give a shit about what they put on the table in the first place. Strange that.

>>50659494
Sure I'll bite, by statying what has alreasy been confirmed.

Confirmed:
- SW Unit: Special destroyers
- SW Alternate HQs (mirror existing ones, but with fluffy SW elements e.g. both Priest varieties)
- TS Unit: Prescient psy assassins
- TS At least one new psychic discipline
- Missions include rules for warp-wracked Prospero, absolute madness like units getting lost or chasing mirages

Strongly hinted at during the Weekender:
- TS automata

My personal hopes:
- 3 unique units, 3 RoWs, 3-4 characters for both SW & TS
- Generic RoW for destroyers
- Blackshield variant for Librarian-led forces

>>50660070
>TS Automata
>psychic legio cybernetica

I want.

>>50659743
They ruined Prospero by trying to make it like both sides were right and justified, unlike the original tale when it was a legit surprise attack, Magnus felt actually betrayed, a real fight was had and Magnus' fall was a real tragedy, not an action of a crybaby.

Instead it was the Wolves "wining" only with Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Magnus crippling his world, keeping a third of his legion away, and refusing to fight back only until it was a guaranteed loss.

I mean, when the TS librarians can pin point exactly where the Wolf fleet will slowly exit the warp, piecemeal... well the idea that the wolves even made it to Prospero in the first place was simply because Magnus "let them". It was stupid as shit, not just as a wolf player, but just as someone who understands how to write a narrative.

The wolves went from launching a calculated surprise attack successfully, putting the Sons on the back foot before fighting through terrible losses to defeat Magnus, to basically being allowed to do anything, with the book just constantly highlighting how they cant do shit without anyone else allowing them to.

>Exiting the warp unmolested: Magnus told the Sons specifically not to
>Bombard the planet from orbit: Magnus disabled the defenses
>Fight sorcerers that can crush battle companies with their minds: Sisters of Silence and Custodes handle it.
>Finally Defeat Magnus: The book has Russ actually set to lose, only winning because the puppers dies distracting Magnus.

This story made the Wolve's one and only real success, tinged with tragedy, into a giant "We let you win" by everyone else involved. As a wolf fan it really sucks.

Don't even get me started on the "Night of the Wolf", otherwise known as "We lost the fight but could have killed Angron so we win". God that one is also terrible.

Why does BL hate us so much...

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>>50658543
The profile isn't, the option to take it is.

>>50659371
Optional rule back when D weapons were crazy strong. They were severely toned down in 7E.

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>>50660070
>- 3 unique units, 3 RoWs, 3-4 characters for both SW & TS
Woah, that's more than some legions already have. The DG have 2 unique units, 2 RoWs, and 3 characters
>- Generic RoW for destroyers
WANT

>>50660156
Then ambushed and fucked up the Alpha Legion; double whammy as the Khan thought Russ was a liar and refused to help.

Then decided to meet up with Horus and got spanked.

Then disappeared into the Eye of Terror; massively overestimated his legion's ability not to wolf shit up.

>>50660214
*fucked up BY the Alpha Legion

>>50659409
How well does the Nemean Reaver fare against siggy?

>>50660070
>SW Unit: Special destroyers
If they dont fix regular destroyers and the SW unit isn't shit, imma use them minus any furry options. Because seriously.

Thinking of getting into this malarkey with some loyalist edgemarines. Obviously things can change as I play games and get experience, but would this be a decent plan to aim towards?

>Night Lords, Orphans of Betrayal, 1996 points

>Praetor (paragon blade, jump pack, refractor field, fear) - 160

>15 Assault marines (3 power axes, sarge has pair of LCs, AA, meltabombs) - 305

>10 Tactical marines (9 CCW, sarge has chainglaive, AA) - 163
>Rhino - 35

>10 Tactical marines (9 CCW, sarge has chainglaive, AA) - 163
>Rhino - 35

>5 Tartaros termis (4 combibolter, 1 plasma blaster, 4 LC, 1 chainfist, grenade harness) - 230
>Land's raider phobos (armoured ceremite) - 245

>Leviathan dread (grav flux bombard, claw, heavy flamers) - 290
>Dread drop pod - 100

>Deredeo dread (lascannons, missile launcher, heavy flamer) - 270

And, if I get that far, would go up to 2499 by adding:

>3rd tactical squad & rhino (as above)
>Leviathan with storm cannon, claw, and 2 volkite calivers (walking)
>Meltabombs on all three tactical sergeants

Basic idea would be that the assault marines and terminators go after objectives in the opponent's half of the field while tactical marines go after objectives in my half of the field (it's purposeful that there's 2 units for each role). Land's raider is there because I'm worried about the termis just dying the turn after teleporting in, and the LR brings bonus lascannons which seem helpful for NL. Termi loadout is designed to get at least one shooting kill before assaulting to activate A Talent For Murder against a now 9 man unit - did some mathammer and TFM does marginally more damage than a second lighting claw. But still not sure about that choice.

>>50660206
Right right, but I imagine that the Wolves and Sons won't get anything else until Terra. And even then probably nothing, so I'm thinking of this book as an opportunity to put out everything, and then for other legions to catch up.

For example, the Iron Hands and Salamanders have 4+ characters.
The Word Bearers have 3 unique units (Ashen Circle, Gal Vorbak, Mhara Gal), same for the Ultramarines (Locutarus, Invictarus, Fulmentari).

>>50660156
>Finally Defeat Magnus: The book has Russ actually set to lose, only winning because the puppers dies distracting Magnus.

This part infuriates me, the ONE part that matters and they fuck it up royally.

Russ is the worst "Executioner" ever.

I've seen red/white and red/gold for Thousand Sons. Are those for special squads or just artistic taste?

>>50660313
At the moment, purely artistic.

>>50660261
Depending on the comparison between SW Destroyers and regular destroyers by the time of the Inferno, I'd consider making them legion inductees and ignore the rest of their legion.
Say it's an attached watch pack or something, everybody hates them anyway.

>>50660310
which brings up a good question: what else do people hope their legion gets to fill out the roster?

>SoH Lupercali, weaker Gal Vorbak that can go up to 20 per unit
>DG Proto plague marines, relentless PA

Greeting Sons of Dorn! I require advice concerning the proper amount of TH/SS Termies to take. I'm already bringing a Spartan to transport them, but I'm wondering if 10 is overkill and I should cut the squad down a bit to free up points.

>>50660397
Good Rampagers that at least have Rampage?

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>>50660431
Sounds like you're aiming them at an enemy deathstar.
10 PF/SS (Cataphractii) termies are cheaper than 10 Butchers, so there's that.

>>50660009
You're a good person anon.

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Alpharius here, looking to add that Supremacy Armour to my Alpha Legion as dictated by dubs. I'm going to fluff it as Cabal antics, as it always is. Here's my mock-up so far.

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>>50660587
I'm not sure if this is pure madness or not.

>>50660587

https://youtu.be/cNgxyL5zEAk

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>>50660587
>Lupercali

>>50660156
The SW and TS are opposing teams at a Derby. Except the result is rigged every time: The SW must win.
However, they have to win in such a way that it looks like the TS were going to win until last second bad luck, or a reveal that some force imbalance means they could never have realistically won.
This is for a few reaons.
1) Thousand Sons are the Tzeentch legion. Therefore, no matter how much they plan or complex a scheme they come up with, they must lose, but in such a way that they have hope for the future or to try again. To come so far and to lose it all, but in the end, something still actually matters is Tzeentch.
2) In a business built off of making teams/factions cool so that people want to support them/play them, you can't have one team consistently be total shit and get reamed. Well you can, but you have to have them be the plucky underdogs, ie good guys. TS are bad guys, so they can't be in that rolle. BUT
3) Because the TS have to look like they can win but then dramatically lose, you can make the SW the plucky underdogs - even though they are the destined heroic victors by all narrative demands - by having them have shitty feeling victories and get smacked around and generally reamed out until they win.
4) This creates a character of hard fighters who don't give up, who pull off some amazing bullshit for (insert character/narrative reasons) and who can be proud but not overweeningly arrogant, which is a villainous trait (ie like the Sons can be).

>tl;dr - in order for the SW to be the SW and not the Fists or the Angels (of either variety) you have to be the beaten underdogs AND the rightful victors at the same time, which is why SW fluff is the way it is.

>>50660156
>Don't even get me started on the "Night of the Wolf"

But seriously can someone explain that to me. It's actually quite confusing.

>It looks like Russ and Angron's legions fought.

>The WE were winning, but the Wolves formed a maneuver that gave them the chance to kill Angron, but were being encircled by the WE.

>The wolves then could have taken the time to kill Angron, but get overrun by the World Eaters, or fall back

>Angron basically tell Russ to do it and calls him out on his bullshit

>Russ choses to save his legion and leave.

>Later Lorgar says Russ won because losing his legion and himself to kill Angron was getting the objective, which is technically a win.

>but the wolves would have died as well, only leaving the WE without Angron.

Why is that considered a win, it sounds like more BL nonsense.... which it probably is but still.

>>50660668
I thought Russ's point was to show that organised soldiers are better than potentially more-skilled individual warriors. Been a while since I read the book though.

>>50660668
Russ and several squads use tactics and fraternity to break through the WE lines and cut Angron off from any WE. They could kill him.
No WE come to help Angron. They're all too busy pushing the SW back. By any account, the WE are winning the battle as they are pushing the SW back.
If they notice - or care to notice - that Russ is in their backline, they could turn around in enough number to kill him.
The point is, they fight in such a disorganised way that they didn't stop Russ and his kill squads from getting to their commander, in fact they didn't seem to especially notice or even care. Because they put individual combat performance above tactics and brotherhood, like a potential sacrifice play to kill the enemy commander.

Killing the enemy leader is generally considered winning by any standard. Russ also 'won' by showing Angron his men were better soldiers.

The twist is that Angron pretty much doesn't give a fuck. You can't really win if the other person isn't playing the game.

>>50660691
But the organized soldiers were going to get killed... if they "accomplished the mission" they would have died horribly. That proves you can do a successful beheading maneuver with a proper sacrificial strike force... how is any of that new, Horus is famous for that.

>>50660668
>>50660739
this is funny because in ATS and PB the Wolves are no better than Angron's men.

>just fookin rush them eventually the pile of corpses will create a trench for us to cross

Do any legions get Relentless?

I want footslogging pain, but I already play Death Guard in 40k, and I'm in the mood for another legion.

Aaaaah Command squads suck!
They're capped to five where terminator legion specifics, rarest of the rare, can be up to 10 dudes. Or twelve in the Justaerin's case.
Or have 2W, like Butchers, Deathshroud, Justaerin and Firedrakes.
Or be all characters, like the Deathshroud.
Or at least have the ability to take legion specific weapons, like Phoenix guards, Invictarii, Deathshroud or even Rampagers can. Srsly, even Rampagers and tactical sergeant #4122 can.

Srsly, I understand some Primarchs hated their bodyguards, but regular Praetors would kill to get some, and some actually do kill to get some.

Command squads gain the character special rule, a Dreadclaw DT and the chance to be up to ten guys (each dude costing 20 pts) and a Spartan DT if they number 5 or more and have terminator armour.

Also, Pride of the legion should also make legion specifics troops.

Those are the changes I'd make to the rules, what changes would you propose, /HHG/?

>>50660755
This is gonna sound a bit weird if you're a certain type of person, but you're thinking too logically. Russ was trying to prove a point, that's all. Primarch egos can be so huge, some of them'll prove emotional points of pride and arrogance to each other using the lives of their marines.

There's also the uncertainty factor. Angron would certainly die. Would Russ? Maybe, probably. But maybe not.

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>>50660587
Kek, nice try Alpha Leggionaire, we shall not fall to your corruption.

>>50656551
Not the first anon, bit would a Hellhammer be a good choice instead of a Stormsword for a Mechanicum army that can give it Interceptor? I feel that downgrading the blast to 7" might be worth it for turreted Typhon Interceptor blasts.

>>50660860
I wonder at what point you just decide, yep, fuck it, I'm gonna wear all gold. Gold, baby, gold.

>>50660310
Iron Hands only have three, right?
Meduson,Autek Mor and TANK COMMANDER. Or did I miss anyone?

>>50660860
What's up with alpharius's dildo fingers on his right hand?

>>50660879
Yeah my mistake. It's the Sallies who got 4.

>>50660820

WS5 2+ save fearless bubble bikes/jet bikes

>>50660874
When you become the Praetorian of Terra.
Rember how in the future everything is chromed? Not on Terra, everything is auric there.
I bet even civilians wear shiny clothes.

>>50660874
You decide to wear all gold when you are confirmed the truest son of the Emperor and asked to pimp out his palace.

>>50660899
I am more miffed about UM having a Rylanor clone, desu.

>>50660890
>I'll show you what the Pale Spear truly is

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>>50660890
Neil Roberts can't really do gauntleted fingers, he instead covers them with cilinders that clip when making a fist.

But the rest of the armour, especially the elbows, pauldron size and byzantine art on it is top notch.

>>50660947
They steal everything. Ultramarines, the new Blood Ravens?

>>50660214
I think you need to re-read that particular story. It was the Alpha Legion spanking the shit out of the Space Wolves, who barely got away and then get saved by Dark Angels no less.

>>50660302
One and only bump for any comments about this list. If nothing else, what are people's thoughts on the optimal setup for night lord terminators? That's the main thing I'm not sure about, wondering between
>double melee weapons - extra attack in combat
or
>keep combibolters on them - shoot on way in to try to activate A Talent For Murder in subsequent combat
Of course, a third option is finding the points for 4 with double claws and then a plasma blaster on the chainfist dude (as he has to have a gun anyway), but I just don't know.

>>50661304
>>50660222
C'mon gramps, try to keep up wit the younguns

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>>50661311
>If nothing else, what are people's thoughts on the optimal setup for night lord terminators?
You could find this useful

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Anyone wanna share this? Bonus if you want to share any of the other advent audios as well.

For 15 Breachers, does 2 grav guns and a melta work as a decent set up?

>>50661466
Er you go http://www101.zippyshare.com/v/icgf5vLs/file.html
Btw. The Thirteenth Wolf or Children of Sicarus link anyone?

>>50660206
But the thing about the Death Guard now is that it's all pre-nurgled units.
Anything else they'll release will he nurgle shit. I'm fine with what we've got now.

>>50660397
Special DG destroyers
Because of all the legions who should get special CHEM WARFARE troops, it should be the legion that is the master of CHEM WARFARE, not the fucking yiffs

>>50661466

>The reason Noise Marines look like shit and yell loud is because Eidolon poured acid on the Kakophoni. This turned them from purple to pink and fused their armor to them.

Thanks, BL...

>>50661652
While I agree with your reasoning, the DG already have a legion specific Destroyer unit.
They're even clad in terminator armour, the Grave Wardens

>>50661655
Your dubs lie. They must by lying!

>>50661655
>Thanks, BL...
IT'S SCIENCE!
>Bu-
SCIENCE!

>>50661688
I realized we already have them as I looked at my unassembled ones after the post.
I just want a special power armor unit, terminator units mean I'm gonna need more expensive resin boxes as transports.

>>50661745
Fair enough.

>>50660820
I agree on the Command Squads

I would make combi volkites 5 points, because costing the same as an actual charger is silly

Discount on indomidus armor termi squads and character options.

Seeker sarge can take a combi

ravens talons free swap for a claw(power scythes are a swap for a fist and so much better)

Get rid of chainfire overheat on moritats now that they are capped at 12 shots so they arent absolutely garbage anymore.

add shred to rotor cannons

quad mortars 0-1 or switch to heavy support. too cheap and spammable.

stormeagles/darkwing can transport jump infantry. Because the always do in the fluff. its weird they dont have a rule for it.

the above destroyer fix

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Can anyone post pictures of the mk3 build instructions booklet from BP please? You'd save me some bad surprises.

>>50661627
Thanks!

>>50661793
Too lazy, there are numbers on the sprues to match parts, and letters inside each half of the backpacks. If you fuck it up you're probably an irredeemable idiot.

>>50662033
Don't underestimate me

>>50662033
Don't worry, I just stopped panicking for a minute and saw that the numbers were easy to put together.
Thanks nonetheless.

>>50662051
Hey, stop impersonating me.

>>50662108
Good job, guy. To be fair I don't actually have the booklet, I just saw some guy on facebook glue together his own set wrong and then spent a little time inspecting the sprues I got second-hand. It's a pretty nice set.

>>50661790
Or one could just not take combi volkites.

Why anyone would even try to take that makes no sense to me no matter the cost

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>>50661790
>Discount on termies
Maybe discount on HQ Centurion options. Maaaaybe.
>Seeker combi-weapon
Double yes
>Ravens talons
Eh, I don't know. Solarite Gauntlets aren't an alternate power fist, but rather available to ICs that can buy a thunder hammer.
Meanwhile Raven Talons are available to any claw beekee, even nameless Legion Termie squads. Maybe make them cheaper, from +10pts to only +5pts, even when paired. I mean, Master Crafted Rending on your Shredding claws are worth something.
I'm not sure if Chainaxes should be +1S, even if Despoilers and Assault squads do get them free.
>No more chainfire overheat
Then no one ever would take anything other than double plasma Moritats (except BA, who are better than you simply because they're red loyalists). I think regular Gets hot stopping the Chain fire without hard cap would be good yet not OP.
>Shredding rotor cannons
How about +1 shot?
>0-1 Quad Mortars
Definitely. Even if they were heavy support, the ironfirers would simply add 3 of them alongside their artillery squad, which are 0-1 and even then they are too many.
>Flyers carrying jump infantry
They can't already? I mean, they can transport termies. Duckships wouldn't be able to fit Assault squads.


>Combi volkites
Eh, better take regular volkite chargers, they already cost the same as combi-weapons. In the hands of terminators, I mean.
I'm trying to make an AL :^) list and I don't know what kind of termie I want!
Budget all-rounder legion termies?
Offensive-style anti-infantry Lerneans?
Defensive-style duel-centered Command squad, despite they need a termi preator which isn't really an option if I want any of the AL Masters of the Legion? (2500pts)
Stolen offensive-style melee-only Butchers?
Stolen defensive-style melee-only Firedrakes?

All I know is I need three troop choices, and even then I'm not so sure about 10 dudes in a Multimelta Rhino!

I thought the AL was meant to confuse only my enemy, not myself!

>>50662661

Lernaens and regular termies have a lot of overlap, Lernaens generally want to be in combat more though.

Regular termies with combi bolters are one of the few times banestrike is actually worth it. It's only slightly cheaper than volkites though

>>50662762
>regular termies with combi bolters are one of the few times banestrike is actually worth it.
Eh, I don't know. I already did the math, volkites kill about n(5/27) while combi-banestrike kill n(2/27), but it's considerably cheaper, going from 15pts to 50pts.

50pts that could go to power fists and deal with 2W termies and vehicles, which is something that makes Lerneans even more expensive, even if they aren't overcosted themselves.

And the Harrower can deal surprisingly well in duels, with up to five WS5 Mastercrafted power/chainfist attacks (which is actually more than what Dynat gets one of many ;^)), all of that in a squad that can have a one-turn Hammer of Wrath, but that makes them more expensive yet again, Command squads are arguably better in duels and stolen 2W termies do pretty much the same thing...but with 2W.

Or I could get Invictarii/Deathshroud for duels with non-unwieldy AP2.


I recall one anon planning to use Dynat + AP1 Saboteurs? How did that go?

>>50662906

Your terminator deathstar is going to expensive no matter what and trying to worry about whether to spend 50 points or not is going to mean squat when the whole package is like 850 in their Spartan anyway.

Rewards of treason tends to be best used on shooty stuff desu.

Saboteurs and Dynat aren't quite as bad as combat array saboteurs but be prepared to lose friends if you roll too well too often

>>50663038
>combat array saboteurs
Kind of ilegal. Last time I checked relics weren't even sanctioned for casual play, only for campaigns. Besides, auto 6 is kind of an I win button.

>>50663112

They didn't used to be campaign only and my statement was that Saboteurs with dynat are less bullshit than the literal auto win button.

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>tfw might get a job just as I was starting to get my inspiration for HH back

>>50663409
One and the other aren't mutually exclusive, silly anon.
Think positive. You'll enjoy your time spent on the hobby and playing more than now, since it will be more precious.

>>50663511
Yes but getting a new apartment and moving and all that postpones my projects until everything is sorted out. If I get the job. On the other hand being a cryo engineer sounds cool.

>>50663546
You get to earn money to buy more shit.

I currently signed up a new contract for a job in a different country. For now it means I'm packing up my stuff, no more HH. Will have to learn a new language if I want to really play with the locals.

But I will be making 2.5x my current salary, less taxes, cost of life about equal. All of the fucking heresy all over my face.

>>50663586
Where are you moving to bruv?

>>50663546
>cryo engineer
I guess you won't be playing Salamanders, huh.

>>50663642
He's gonna be a SW through and through!

>>50663657
nah, Russ is all about exothermic power these days

>>50663657
No, he said engineer. It means you have some sort of education and schooling :^)

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>>50663657
No.

>>50663685
>no dogs allowed.jpg

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>>50663784

>>50663800
>your

Must be the yiffs again.

How do Power Scythes do against terminators?

I can't mathhammer to any degree

>>50663869
What's attacking and what is getting hit?

>>50663885
Deathshroud vs any of the variations

Cataphractii I suppose

>>50663908
Deathshroud are doing about .5 wounds assuming they didn't charge and they are getting the +1 attack from the scythe.

hey anons,
I'm getting into mechanicum
I was wondering what suggestions would you have for running techpreists axulia

>>50664000

First off, cybernetica or reductor?

>>50664018
I lean towards vanilla at the moment but i do want to branch into reductor to support some bitterboys

>>50664018
Different n00b here - do you actually have to choose? What units are the norm for Reductor?

>>50664088

Reductor is artillery tanks and Thallax, long range leveling of the battlefield.

Cybernetica is Castellax, Vorax, and general robots, an immovable wall of peace and tolerance delivered at the hand of an automata.

Both are like rites of war for a legion - if you declare one, you can't declare the other. It affects troops choices, what units you can take, etc. For example. Cybernetica MUST take Castellax and Reductor MUST take Thallax. Cybernetica must fill every slot of the FOC with a robot before taking something else, while only Reductor get ORATs.

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>>50664184
>an immovable wall of peace and tolerance delivered at the hand of an automata.
That's a man who loves his tech.

>>50660820
>Those are the changes I'd make to the rules, what changes would you propose
Every special character gets a 2+.
Every single one.
All the "first captain" type ones (Sevatar, Abaddon) should get a AP2 at initiative weapon too.
Conversely, cut down on legion specific AP2 at initiative weapons.

How would a Night Lord's DAV turn out?

>>50663971
That's not great. Guess I'll need some more anti-term.

>>50661793
Look at the numbers, anon. Leg & hip 9 goes to leg 10. Leg & hip 11 goes to leg 12. Those are arbitrary numbers, but they are all sequential like that. Arms are all directly across from one another, backpacks only come in 2 varieties; studded or not.

>>50664469
Could be brutal, 3x15+Apothecary Assault squads arriving on turn 1 and backed up by Terror squads in Dreadclaws which could potentially also arrive on turn 1 could be nasty.

>>50664513
Speaking of killing terminators, what are some other reliable ways to remove them other than plasma guns?

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>>50665069
demolishers also work

>>50664184
>an immovable wall of peace and tolerance delivered at the hand of an automata.

Do you mind if I borrow that saying? My Knight I have ordered needs a motto.

Also, is it possible to have a Cybernetica allied detachment to my Reductor? Throw in Scoria, two Castellax, 3 Vorax and a Thanatar and that's your robots all with +1I and 24" control, and no D3 points loss, plus I can still take Reductor arty.
If I only take the Castellax, the Vorax and Scoria, he can Outflank with them and the Castellax can still fight reasonably well if I'm careful with them.

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what do you think FW should do in 2 years when we are finished getting all Primarchs and that we have the last HH book ?

I would love them to Expand on early post Heresy Crusades and Xenos.
For example i would live to see Models for The Beast and having a scenario where both are Fighting...

>>50665069
More Terminators.
FotL.

>>50665156
>2 years
>finished
>all Primarchs
>last HH book
You're a funny guy anon.

>>50665069
Melta guns!

>>50665227
BL is finishing in two years. It is known. FW is likely to go another two or three years past that.

>>50665069
Flamers.

>>50665069
Tanks and Dreadnoughts. All your problems can be solved through proper application of dreadnoughts and tanks.

>>50665266
This surprises me.

>>50665299
Sicaran BTs do ok?

>>50665353
A 10 man flamer squad can easily rack up 20+ wounds, granted he may just save them all but put enough wounds on them and they might fail just enough to wreck the squad.

>>50665353
>sicaran
Not really a fan, but it'll kill one or two per turn. Give it lascannons and that might go up. You're better off with any CC dread, vindicators, one of the superheavies, or otherwise some artillery to either rack up twice as many saves as the dude with flamers with quad mortars, or simply kill them with medusae.

>>50665069
Seekers. Scorpius rounds are amaaaaaazing

>>50665156
I'd rather FW stay away from BL as much as they can.

The idea is interesting though, something like the Great Crusade could be fun. Especially with all the myriad of alien races that were fought.

>>50665156
>2 years
Shiggismund Diggismund.

Anyway, I still hope FW might do the War In Heaven one day. I know it's xenos vs xenos, but they do put out some xenos stuff.

>>50665578
Someone turned me away from Seekers. They're awful pricey aren't they?

>>50665797
They are not cheap but they are pretty good against most things.

>>50665797

They're pricey but they're also BS5 preferred enemy heavy 1 S5 AP 2 with a 24" range so you get your money's worth.

Which ones of you nerds is this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOxpewXImck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY4tvyEIC3o

>>50665797
Depends. If you can scout/infiltrate/deploy them in a nice piece of terrain where they can snipe away whilst the rest of your army makes sure nothing charges them they're quite alright. In my experience seekers do around 8-9 wounds with AP 2 each shooting phase.

They can be vulnerabe to massed mortars - but what isn't right now.

>>50665227
only 6 primarch to go, with one dropping around Xmas...
2 years looks good.

>>50665905
>2 years looks good.

Its a bit more than that, if we assume Magnus is going to be released next February then its gonna be something like this

>Sanguinius/Lion
>Whatever other book the Khan will be in
>Solar Campaign book for Dorn and Alpharius
>Martian Schism
>Siege of Terra

Thats assuming we dont get other books dealing with other shit or some of those books getting postponed like Inferno, so its going to be at least another 5 years of heresy then FW said they would continue on with the Scouring/Slave wars after the Siege of Terra

>>50666001
>Thats assuming we dont get other books dealing with other shit
We're getting a Tallarn book. There's no way Forgeworld could resist.

>>50666001
Theres also the probability of new models for daemon primarchs, since we're confirmed for getting rules for at least daemon angron

>>50666001
>5+ years of forgeworld making rules
I am okay with this, let it begin

>>50665156
I want mord Khrave lore, now!

Unification and early crusade do sound so much more like space opera as well.

>Gib.

>>50665156
Who gave Andy Serkis power armor? He doesn't need it. He's practically a force of nature in a mocap suit.

>>50666001
>Schism of Mars

Rules for Kelbor Hai, daemon automata, possible plastic stuff for Mechanicum if GW decides to play along.

Pass FASTER, time, DO WANT.

>>50666001
>if we assume Magnus is going to be released next February
>if we assume
Those are fighting word mate. This book has already taken long enough, please no more waiting on the Primarch release.

>>50666195
see you for magnus march, mate

>>50665823
>>50665851
>>50665875
So how would you do Seekers? 10 man, 5 man? They perform better than a Plas support squad?

>>50666311
Ten dudes if you can spare the points. They're more reliable at ranges beyond 12'' and also don't kill themselves half the time.

Now that they have implacable advance they're like the ideal objective campers.

>>50663847
I literally made that. Fuk

>>50666311
8-10 in a rhino, move em up the field capping objectives and capping bitches until they reach their designated target. Combi-weapons are not necessary anymore but a nice addition imo, could also give them a vigilator and outflank them.

>>50666411

Hell vigilator is nice just to give them a sweet, sweet 3+ cover save, let alone move through cover and outflank

>>50666001
> dealing with other shit
just wait for it: Custodes Automata, the Cabal, the High Lord of Terra Astra-mil elite pre-pre-predecessor, the two missing Space Marine mercenary and mutant legions and much more made-up shit - oh, and another 10 Ultramarine Captains befor the other primarchs are finished. And a tank so hughe that it carries two Thunderhawks and a Knight.
Meanwhile 8th edition happens and books 1-7 are overhauled, which costs two years.
They will do it, just watch it happen.
Oh, and before they release the last two books, they start an early Crusade spinoff to integrate Eldar, prepre-Tau and Nids as enemies. Then we see 30k Bloodbowl addons and a book covering the epic space battles of Botsvana V.
Oh shit, I just gave them so many pointers, I doomed us all.

>>50665156
I certainly wouldn't mind if they went back and did some Crusade-era stuff, xenos and all. But I like xenos and a lot of people don't seem to. Balance is an often-cited reason, but we've got all-monstrous creature Mechanicum armies and soon we'll have daemon armies. As long as the xenos are more limited than what they get in 40k, I think the balance will be fine.

But realistically, I don't see it happening. Orks and Eldar aren't that different in 30k and 40k, so what's the point? Just keep releasing 40k Imperial Armour stuff. (Marines and Mechanicum ARE that different.) Other xenos would be neat, but there isn't really enough source material to do complete armies.

They'll go into the Scouring, which was still huge in scale. Book 6 already has a fluff piece set during the Scouring (I never understood why) so it's already happening. Don't forget, the turning point of a war is usually not very close to the end. The World Wars only accelerated in death rate after the outcome was already a forgone conclusion.

Then they'll freeze the setting and go back into it the way they do with Imperial Armour in 40k - cover big battles that they missed, even if it means going back in time. There have to be model releases involved, so I'd expect proportionally more Mechanicum than Astartes (less fleshed out, still useful in 40k).

>>50665729
The Mastodon started out as a vehicle just thrown into a BL book. Someone liked the idea and ran with it.

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>>50666615
>And a tank so hughe that it carries two Thunderhawks and a Knight.
Kek. Maybe that one can survive a thud battery's fusilade, huh? :^)

>Halo Shield

When this vehicle is hit by a barrage weapon, any weapon that automatically hits side armor or any weapon fired without line of sight, reduce the strength of the attack by 2.

May be taken instead of a flare shield or may replace 1 void shield on a Mastadon.

>>50666195
AL players want to kill you and then become you.

>>50666853
what would even be the fucking point of that aside from countering flare shield counters which is a moot point considering you propose it as a replacement for one

>>50666895

Options instead of auto include, my dude.

Also makes the Mastadon useable.

>>50666947
The Mastodon is useable

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>>50666996

I don't think you've experienced the let down of fielding a Mastadon

>>50666947
exactly it's just gonna create a conga line of people bringing direct/indirect fire every other game as the guy with the shield switches based on what he fought last game
and isn't the mastadon is 14/14/14 anyway ? improving it side armor protection wouldn't mean shit aside from giving it a for all intents and purposes flare shield against barrage

this just reeks of "i spammed spartans with flare shields so everyone at my store bought a medusa to bypass it and i want this feeling of AV16 again"

>>50667042

9 quad mortar owner detected

>>50667041
Are you anon that got his blown up by quad murderers?

Did you experiment further ater this?

>>50667074
you are aware the anti tank shell on the quad mortars doesn't have barrage right ?

>>50667076

I am not although that sounds hilarious

>>50667097

Thank Jesus.

>>50666996

Don't troll poor anon

>>50667113
i'm just asking because someone at my store made the same mistake
we had 2 games of him using his vox casters to give his mortars los and hitting side armor across the map before we realized the error

>>50667113
It isnt, guy was crushed.

I also want to use one...

>>50660587
Make each of the gun heads a dragon-mouth.

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>>50667151
It has a point cost.
It has weapons and a statline.
It has rules.
Therefore, it is usable.

>>50665156
>>50666170
He looks more like Michael Portillo in that pic.

>>50662661
>>Discount on termies
>Maybe discount on HQ Centurion options. Maaaaybe.
Indomidus is objectively the worst choice. There is zero reason to take it. There should be a reason.

>>No more chainfire overheat
>Then no one ever would take anything other than double plasma Moritats
Theres currently no reason to take moritats at all. They are fragile, expensive and a waste of an HQ slot when a troop can do better than them. Even BA is ehhh because of the short range. Unless you're an inch away youre going to outkill your range and waste shots.

>Shredding rotor cannons
>How about +1 shot?
Literally anything to make them not shit ha

>Flyers carrying jump infantry
>They can't already?
Right? The Darkwings page even talks about it deploying Dark Furies yet it cannot RAW. Its very silly.

>Combi volkites
>Eh, better take regular volkite chargers, they already cost the same as combi-weapons
Exactly. Combi volkites are a waste at 10p, should be 5.

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>>50667250
>There should be a reason.
But forgeworld doesn't sell indomitus, so it can get fucked.

Just giving them their targeters back would give them a niche. It's not like Cataphractii and Tartaros have them modeled on.

>>50661790
>add shred to rotor cannons

Make them S4. 10 can pack as much firepower as a 20-man tactical standing still with 6" more range.

>>50661627
>The Thirteenth Wolf or Children of Sicarus link anyone?

No one?

>>50667321
same as the last three months, no. I swear you're doing it just to fuck with us at this point

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>>50662661
Also Alpharius.

>>50667250
>There should be a reason.

Make terminators a single generic entry like PA and let people decide what they want to use, instead of dictating to them what suit is best for what.

>>50667298
What would those targeters do ? Maybe allow to draw LOS for the whole unit from a single model ?

>>50662661
>>50667250
>>50667298


Having a discount on Indomitus doesn't make sense. FW should just go with the fluff reasoning behind the armours as they originally planned to.

What SHOULD have happened, and IIRC FW even experimented with it, is giving Tartaros only 2+/6+ saves, to make them (as they were) a middle ground between full terminator plate and Maximus power armour. You genuinely have to surrender some protection for greater mobility.

That way, Indomitus has its niche as a middle-ground option between gottagofast Tartaros and immovable bulwark Cataphractii.

>>50658867
I dreamt this night that I was an ultramarine suzerin Invictarius on an escort mission to protect the queen of england and help her escape onboard a wreacked battlebarge about to crash land on a planet.


And I don't even like utrasmurfs, nor do I acknowledge the royal family of england, and refuse their claims of being monarchs.

Fuck "Queen" Elizabeth.

>>50667337
I think you're talking about another anon, man.

>>50667321
tinyurl h2pc528
tinyurl zw2wj8o

>>50667344
FW already did that by giving tartaros and cataphractii rules as well as making certain units have those specific suits.

>>50667298
>But forgeworld doesn't sell indomitus, so it can get fucked.
But its an option in their game. An option there is no reason to take mechanically

>>50667298
>Just giving them their targeters back would give them a niche
Literally anything so they arent strictly worse tartaros

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>>50667366

> And I don't even like utrasmurfs, nor do I acknowledge the royal family of england, and refuse their claims of being monarchs

Can't tell if edgy tween anarchist or diehard Jacobite.

would a 5 man support squad of volkite chargers in a rhino be effective?

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>>50667366
Tiocfaidh ár lá, a dheartháír cogaidh!

>>50667362
>Having a discount on Indomitus doesn't make sense
It does, they extremely widespread and everyone and their uncle could make them.

>Tartaros only 2+/6+ saves
That was their original ruleset. But then they made tartaros, in lore, the most advanced suit there is. So its too late on that one.

I really like the targeter idea. Maybe +1BS or -1 cover or something. If cataphractii is the defensive suit, and tartaros is the 'best', but by extension the melee/mobility suit, then indomidus being the shooty one is good.

>>50667389
>FW made terminators a single entry by making them into 3 separate entries

I don't think that's how it works, anon. You don't have special rules for MkIII armour, MkVI armour, etc. They're all "power armour" and you decide what suits to use. Terminators should be the same thing. You just get the models you like for the units you like. I don't get the "gotta sell dat krak" argument, because there's more PA variants than terminator ones and I don't see FW having to make special rules for those suits to boost sales. Nor does the Deimos rhino hull or MkIV castaferrum have special rules over Mars hull or MkV castaferrum.

>>50667451
>most advanced suit there is

So? Deimos hull is more advanced than Mars and MkIV is more advanced than MkII and III, yet they don't get special rules just because of fluff.

>So its too late on that one.

Yeah, because when GW writes something, they never go back on it. Ever.
t. Laura Goldie

>>50664623

That does sound tasty. It's a shame they're not Raptors, but assault squads are probably better.

I'd love to get dread claws, but FW doesn't have them, and I'm too retarded for chinaman

>>50667430
Leave the Saxe Coburg and Gothas out of this.

Still miffed they threw away their heritage, they founded my university!

>>50667451

> It does, they extremely widespread and everyone and their uncle could make them.

That's true, *after* the Heresy. The Tartaros was too finicky for mass production after such extensive devastation, and the Cataphractii too specialized for general issue. What sealed the deal was that Indomitus was the easiest terminator plate that could be manufactured in the Solar system.

> That was their original ruleset. But then they made tartaros, in lore, the most advanced suit there is. So its too late on that one.

"Most advanced" does not imply outright superior, it just means it was manufactured with the most advanced materials/techniques. Besides, those advances were specifically mentioned as improving its mobility, compared to other terminator suits.

>>50667451
>It does, they extremely widespread and everyone and their uncle could make them.
Is this true in the fluff? I got the impression that it was a thing for the legions closest to Mars/Terra like the Fists and B-Angels, a bit like Mark 7, as the "generic" armour post-heresy.

I think in gameplay the Indomitus doesn't need a power buff, it should just be slightly cheaper than the other two, though whether that would unbalance the sale of the other two models is something I don't know.
IF storm shields aren't allowed on Tartaros anyway, in a way establishing the sliding scale between the three models in terms of practical use. There doesn't seem to be any reason for choosing them over the other models outside of that special legion wargear though.

>>50667462

They did differentiate Mk3, sort of, with hardened armor rules and the shittier versions of Mk5 have rules in pariah armor.

Honestly I'd rather have some sort of bonus for each type of power armor as well

>>50667462
Let's face it, they just didn't want everyone using regular plastic 40k terminators in HH. With power armor there was enough fluff that people would be shamed into not using Mk. VII (except at Terra) or VIII, but there was no such fluff regarding terminator armor. So they made Indomitus just a little bit worse. I'm okay with that, other than the confusion that Deathshrouds went through.

I'm surprised they didn't boost Deimos-pattern Rhino-based vehicles. Nothing big, just maybe a free Machine Spirit or repair roll bonus. I'm glad they didn't because a Deimos-pattern vehicle costs a buttload of money for the points, though. Another one could've been the Land Raider IIb vs. whatever mark the 40k model is. Easy enough - defensive bonus due to the sponsons being armored.

Dreadnought marks are certainly very different.

>>50667602
>hardened armor rules

Nothing stops you from making Breachers out of MkVI if you like, and giving them Hardened Armour. And you could make Pariah Armour out of MkIV if you want.

>Honestly I'd rather have some sort of bonus for each type of power armor as well

Well, fuck you and the dragon dildo you rode in on. I don't need GW to start dictating to me what armour is best suited for what unit. I decided what I model my dudes in and will not have them fuck everything with their "hey kids, you like rules?" How does that even work in a unit of mixed suits? Badly, that's how it'll work in a unit of mixed suits.

>>50667602
If the game worked on a D20 system, say, I'd agree. But I don't think there's enough granularity in a D6 system to really make it work.

>>50667599
Ferrus developed a lot of the Cataphracti and Indomitus pattern lore wise,right?

Truly, best space mongoloid.

If I want Dreadclaws, am I SoL at this point?

>>50667738
Was the Imperium okay with inventing things back in M31?

>>50667646
>Let's face it, they just didn't want everyone using regular plastic 40k terminators in HH.

How many Indomitus suits have you seen? Even when Tartaros and Indomitus were identical? Also, you do realize Indomitus was used during the Heresy you elitist shit?

You don't dictate to me what's kosher. I do not listen to FW nor Goldie. I've got stacks of old fluff and art I'm following, I'm modelling my armies the way I want, the way I liked my HH back in the day when it was but a legend. I will not submit to a designed by committee vision of the setting with Official True Miniatures(tm) that are set in stone and nobody can say anything to the contrary. You go and buy your resin crack and claim to spend time and effort, I'll sit here, buying various kits and bits online to assemble the models I want, based on the art and designs I like. And if you're going to tell me I'm not allowed and my models should be worse than FW ones because I'm a bad, bad boy who doesn't play by the rules of market appeal and IP, you can go stick a pin vice up your dick.

>Dreadnought marks are certainly very different.

Yeah, IV has an exposed head, so it should count as Open Topped.

>>50667769
Of course. Sure, many things were made before that, with STCs and all, but A LOT of stuff seen in the GC was invented at that time.
It was a time of science and enlightenment.

>>50667769
If Primarchs and emps did it, they better be!

Also they were less technologically retarted, the admech was recovering and even inventing stuff at a way faster pace.

>>50667298
I support the targeter idea.

>>50667378
>>50667401
>Can't tell if edgy tween anarchist or diehard Jacobite.
Underrated posts
>>50667366
>I dreamt this night that I was an ultramarine suzerin Invictarius on an escort mission to protect the queen of england and help her escape onboard a wreacked battlebarge about to crash land on a planet.
I wish I had dreams like this one.
I sort of remember liking my dream this morning because I slept with my music on, and it was the Bowie + Blue Oyster Cult + Shirobon playlist.

>>50667809
You're being an aggressive cunt, and he was presumably talking about differences between castaferrum and contemptor

>>50667809
Please show off saturnine.

Guys, who's the strongest primarch? Me and a friend are debating and i say its Magnus the Red and he says its Fulgrim

>>50667359
a passive +1 to hit, as in the picture

I'd say that's about equivalent to a 4+ invulnerable save or the ability to sweep combats.

>>50667973
By kills currently Fulgrim, physically we have Maggie,Ferrus and Vulkan competing.

>>50667973
Rest assured it is most definetely not Fulgrim. Though he was very good at ... 'swordplay'

:^)

Is there art of Curze saving Lorgar with Corvus trying to pull away from Batman holding his arm and laughing like a maniac?

I really want to see if it lives up to the image in my head.

>>50667983
I like the -1 cover idea though. Bit more situational, but with plasma blasters and combi-plasma, or against certain units from that army that has cover reduction up the wazoo *cough*damnedAdMech*cough*

>>50667957
>You're being an aggressive cunt

Damn right I am, when people start being of the opinion FW should dictate how we build our armies by implementing rules for power armour marks. Enjoy your S&P, everyone who made MkIII assault marines. How's that 4+ armour save working out for your MkVIs?

>he was presumably talking about differences between castaferrum and contemptor

Even though I specifically mentioned MkIV and V castaferrum, not castaferrum and contemptor pattern dreadnoughts?

>>50667602
>Honestly I'd rather have some sort of bonus for each type of power armor as well
I think it's a bit late for that.
>>50667646
>Let's face it, they just didn't want everyone using regular plastic 40k terminators in HH
Also this. If you make Indomitus objectively the worst, even if it has the best helmet no one will take it.
Mission accomplished.
>>50667655
>Nothing stops you from making Breachers out of MkVI if you like
I stop him :^)
>>50667738
Yes he did
>>50667969
SATURNINE WHEN?!
>>50667983
>a passive +1 to hit, as in the picture
So, enhanced Overwatch?

>>50668002
Replace sword with cock and both are technically true for a champion of Slaanesh

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>>50667973

>>50667809

Oh hey it's that guy who's really insecure about his possibly non existent indominatus terminators.

>>50667655

>Well, fuck you and the dragon dildo you rode in on. I don't need GW to start dictating to me what armour is best suited for what unit. I decided what I model my dudes in and will not have them fuck everything with their "hey kids, you like rules?

They already do that for literally everything in the game. It's all just arbitrary fiction.

>>50668048
>I like the -1 cover idea though.
The problem is that's completely useless unless you build a very specific unit, while the other buffs are rather universal.

>>50668057
>So, enhanced Overwatch?
Enhanced regular shooting too. Hit on 2's, overwatch on 5's. Make them the definitive shooty suit.

>>50665156
I always imagined Thane as Idris Elba desu

>>50667809
>You don't dictate to me what's kosher.
>the plight of the plebs and their plodding plastics
>pleading for placating platitudes from the plutocrats

>>50667973
Horus and Sangy were about equal.

>>50668051
>>50667809

Did you literally just take the argument for why there shouldn't be a federal income tax and apply it to plastic toy soldiers

>>50667973
Strongest or deadliest in melee?
Because the biggest three were Mortarion, Magnus and Vulkan.
Ferrus, Dorn and Perturabo also were very strong too.
We don't really know which one is the strongest, because most use weapons that are default S8 or S10. Fine weapons that do terrible terrible damage regardless of how stronk you are...as long as you can wield them, that is.

However, the deadliest in melee are Horus, Sanguinius, Fulgrim, and "trust me I'm the Emperor's Executioner, not a jobber" Russ. I mean, Russ has to be good at something, right?

You and your friend better define the question.

>>50668051
As a mere player, I'm not going to dictate anything or mock you for using Indomitus termies - I'm just saying that's not immoral for FW to use tiny little rules tweaks to encourage the purchase of their own minis.

>>50668174
>Russ
>good at something
He was good in screwing things up.

>>50668083
Horus is the greatest, when will you Scrubs learn?

>Mortus Autem Horus Rexia.

>>50668174
I think its obvious he means 1v1 combat since he's comparing Magnus and Fulgrim.

>>50668149
No, but now I want to hear how it's similar.

>>50668227
could be wrong tho

>>50668185
I think the word you're looking for is "not illegal".

>>50668227
Then it's Horus.
He kind of kills the Emperor, you know?
>>50668208
>Horus king until death.
So, pretty much "Horus Warmaster for about 8 years"?
>>50668207
Kek. I wonder what will the Inferno say about...well, about everything.

>>50668208
>Horus is the greatest
Horus isnt a psyker.

>>50668232

>I will not have some slack jawed faggot in Washington dictate to me what a double digit percent of my income will be used for without my consent

>I will not have some bucktoothed queer from Nottingham dictate to me that my black reach terminators are inferior to their resin counterparts

>>50668256
It still is the "Horus" Heresy.

I quoted this from Conquest, his Sons posted that around.

>>50668299
Horus rules!
Psykers drool!

All hail Space Dad!

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>>50656551

This guy knows his stuff.

I would consider Knight Lancer over a Crusader if you're facing wraith knight parties or other imperial knights however.

>>50668347
>The Spacefather

>>50668347
You'd think Horus fans would know better after the Emperors psychic powers turned him inside out.

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>>50668347
Wasn't he a psyker at the end of the heresy, empowered by Chaos?
>>50668376
>Spacefather
>>50668325
It's "the Webway and friends" show, anon :^)

>>50668376
>Horus hugging the Mournival.gif

>>50668251
"Not illegal" is a given. "Not immoral" is up for debate and I'm stating what side I'm on.

>>50668407
>>50668376
Kek.

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>>50668370
>Boop

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>>50668420
I got you brother

>>50668426
Well, when GW fucks you over, don't come crying to us.

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>>50668453
Thanks a lot.

>>50668453
I always get confused with who Loken and Torgaddon are as they are depicted differently depending of who's the artist

>>50668051
>Damn right I am, when people start being of the opinion FW should dictate how we build our armies by implementing rules for power armour marks. Enjoy your S&P, everyone who made MkIII assault marines. How's that 4+ armour save working out for your MkVIs?

I had mixed Terminator squads that are now not fieldable as anything, because I wanted to customize my 40k squad when Cataphractii and Tartaros first came out. I didn't buy the entire box of 5, but I bought enough bits to make 2-3 individual marines of each mark from eBay to have a fancy squad.

Now my squad is illegal in every game due to 40k getting cataphractii rules and 30k getting tartors

I'd have to field like one squad of 2 cataphractii, one squad of 3 tartaros, and one squad of 3 indomitus.

>>50668512

Or you could just play as all indominatus like a normal human being

>>50668479
*Sniffles* Kill for the living... kill for the dead brother...

>>50668487
Loken is supposed to have blondish hair while torrageddon has brown hair

>>50668487
For me it is simple. As Torgaddon is the smiley one.

>>50668521

That's counts-as and opens up the possibility of people complaining about it, because Cataphractii IS NOT Indomitus and Tartaros IS NOT Indomitus.

But when I paid money for all these figures, they were all Indomitus by the rules.

>>50668544

Yeah except they're all mixed and any reasonable person won't give a shit about you using the worst of all worlds to represent that.

If someone complains they aren't worth playing.

Also tartaros and cataphractii are pretty affordable on eBay and tartaros comes with some awesome weapons on its sprue.

>>50668512
>>50668544
Just remember, FW did nothing wrong.

>>50668569
>and any reasonable person won't give a shit about you using the worst of all worlds to represent that.

You'd think so, but you'd have to be new to think people don't have shitstorms over stupid modelling arguments happen all the time.

>>50668569
This is the general that insulted people for using BaC models when it first released, and people who use mk 7.

>>50668479
Also to add to your feels

>LunaFeels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag84x5_718s

>>50667564
>"Most advanced" does not imply outright superior, it just means it was manufactured with the most advanced materials/techniques. Besides, those advances were specifically mentioned as improving its mobility, compared to other terminator suits.

In this case, it does:

> Perhaps the most advanced form of Terminator Armour ever designed, the Tartaros Pattern shares many systems with the Mark IV Maximus Pattern of Power Armour, and provides greater mobility for its wearer than the Indomitus Pattern, with no loss in durability or protection.

>>50668643
the LW as a legion were actually really cool before the whole Horus goes full retard thing

>>50668057
>So, enhanced Overwatch?
It would have to say it sepcifically modifies snapshots. Otherwise it's still +1 to hit modified to BS1 and still hitting on 6's

>>50667983
>a passive +1 to hit, as in the picture
fund it

>>50668643
>>50668692
Fuck, of course they were.

They just venerated their Primarch to much.

>>50668606

People in a Burmese calligraphy board and people in real life are two very different beasts.

People in real life that act like autists on /tg/ aren't people you should associate with in the first place

>>50668630

Don't use Mk7 pleb.

>muh siege

Just stop.

>>50668652
Next legion red book:
> Perhaps the most advanced form of Terminator Armour ever designed, the Tartaros Pattern shares many systems with the Mark IV Maximus Pattern of Power Armour, and provides greater mobility for its wearer than the Indomitus Pattern, at the cost of some durability and protection.

Wow, that was hard. Fluff that can be just inserted out of nowhere can be modified out of nowhere.

>>50668723
>Don't use Mk7 pleb.

What if they're playing-

>>muh siege
>Just stop.

Damnit.

>>50667298
Wait is there a good scan of the crusade army list book?

>>50668728
Dont be salty because you speculated and I found a specific actual evidence.

>>50668723

There's one SoH artwork where the dudes are all wearing bunny-ear-less WE helms with Mk VII armor. Also Sarum Pattern helmets look like Mk VII.

>>50668768
Sorry, totally different anon. So now what?

>>50668779

That also happens to be the artwork for the literal first HH book ever released and the artist was just an idiot, even in the book they refer to their armor as Mk2-4.

sarum helmets are neat but people bitch about Mk7 legs, torsos and arms way more than helmets on otherwise Mk2 or 5 bodies

>>50668765
I dunno? That's from Codex: Ultramarines, m8.

>>50668822
>and the artist was just an idiot

You say that like it doesn't apply to the vast majority of GW artists.

>>50668839

They started cracking down on it pretty handily after that and FW HH book art is word of God as far as model canon goes.

>>50668835
yeah your right now I look, was just hoping. I remember people using bad scans ages after they served no purpose and good scans existed. They posted some shitty screen of their rules and I was forced to uplifted them to scanon great heavens.

>>50668869

Yeah, you can really pinpoint that exact moment when it happens too. I think they only use a handful of the same artists anymore.

>>50668457
"You miss out on a +1 invulnerable save" or "You can't sweeping advance" isn't that big a deal. It's a lot less screwing over than my Eldar Guardians got from 2nd to 3rd ed. Or if GW had started the HH thing and then FW took over and gave FW minis a boost - that would be bad. But it's been a FW project from the start.

Yes, Indomitus is a little worse for the points. But so what? Anyone using Destroyers, Breachers, Assault Marines, Xiphons, and who knows what else is gimping themselves even worse, and with the exception of Destroyers it's not even that bad. Your models haven't been invalidated. They didn't even get worse, just that newer releases were better. Happens all the time.

>>50668937
>4++ vs 5++ isn't a big deal

>>50668937
>Your models haven't been invalidated.
Cortus Dreads killed the Boxnought Star
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwuy4hHO3YQ

>>50668953

Not as bad as having all your lasgun guardians becoming literally unusable overnight

>>50668937
>"You miss out on a +1 invulnerable save" or "You can't sweeping advance" isn't that big a deal.
Tell that to the IF players converting tartaros with storm shields.

>>50668937
>It's a lot less screwing over than my Eldar Guardians got from 2nd to 3rd ed.

Surely you're not saying you got screwed over. That sounds like they shouldn't have done it. But I thought they had every right to do so.

>But it's been a FW project from the start.

So it's ok when FW does it?

>They didn't even get worse, just that newer releases were better.

Well, then you put it like that, I guess everything's fine. Sure, everything else is surpassing them, but because their rules hasn't changed, they're as good as always.

>Anyone using Destroyers, Breachers, Assault Marines, Xiphons, and who knows what else is gimping themselves even worse

Except Indomitus is not a separate unit. Imagine if MkIII breachers got 2+ armour and MkIV Assault Marines got Move Through Cover. Can't complain, your Breachers and Assault Marines are just as good as always. Just because certain armours got better rules doesn't mean your dudes are any worse. They're just not as good.

>>50669048
>Not as bad as having all your lasgun guardians becoming literally unusable overnight
Different anon here, I don't know about xenos.
Can you tell me what happened there?

>>50669111
>Can you tell me what happened there?

Eldar used to have laspistols and lasblasters far more widespread in their armies, where as today only Swooping Hawks and FW Corsairs got lasblasters. Old Howling Banshees, for example had laspistols on them, instead of shuriken pistols, and Guardians had lasblasters. Then GW decided Guardians only got shuriken catapults.

Lets not forget 3e IG codex, which gave Vets option for bolters and combi-weapons for characters, as well as Griffons, Exterminators and Vanquishers as vehicle options. Then the 4e codex removed those options. 5e codex removed storm bolter option for characters. Also removed shotguns and lasgun from sergeants, laspistol & CCW from Vets, etc.

>>50669085
>They're just not as good.
Thats not how it works. If you use indomitus your paying for an objectively worse armor. Theres no reason to ever take it, when for the exact same cost you can get tartaros, which is strictly better.

>>50668937
>But so what?
Just because theres more examples doesnt make it right.

>>50669221
I assume Yarrick told the munitorium where to shove it.

>>50669221
Having an unit become invalid is the worst. I used to run the chapter tactic in the 4th edition marine dex that allowed you to upgrade all your sergants to apothecaries. I still had a pile of them with powerweapons and such that had no more use ... Untill HH became a thing. Bit of conversion work and a helmetswap later and they're now back in action.

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>>50669280
>Thats not how it works.

But anon said Indomitus is as good as always, and just because Cataphractii and Tartaros are better than it on all fronts, doesn't mean Indomitus has gotten worse.