Warhammer Fantasy General: Electric Bogaloo II

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Previous Thread:
>>50574042
>>50574042
>>50574042
>>50574042
>>50574042

What's a good way to make money fast in the Empire?
Other than robbery, or an expedition to Mordheim?

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>>50654019
But anon, that clearly states that the mists are a relatively new thing, with an emphasis on relative.

Are you telling me that Norscans raided Ulthuan for years, decades, perhaps centuries, but never sailed past it and found their way to the New World? And that no other people did this, nor shared this knowledge of the Norscans?

If anything, that citation makes the previous observations (>>50643503 >>50652476) even more solid.

>>50654460
When you say robbery, do you mean all criminality, or only specifically, y'know, robbery?

Also, what are your aptitudes? Can you fight? Are you a wizard? Do you have any starting capital? There's tons of questions.

That being said, it's unlikely that there'll be any obvious fast-tracks that aren't either criminal or absurdly dangerous (Mordheim, kill a dragon, mercenary work against Wizards, etc.)

>>50652476

Ulthuan isn't a normal landmass. Its Unplottable like Hogwarts in Harry Potter, the mists are like the Warp and are full of Daemons, there's living rocks that kamikaze ships, shitloads of monsters, and the Winds of Magic blow so hard they're visible. It took until the Phoenix King before Finubar for non-Chaos humans to safely make it to Ulthuan.

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>>50654460
Working with Dwarfs. You have to be trustworthy as fuck, have the humility and patience to be spoken down to more than an Elf and never get snippy (Elves won't headbutt you to death for being rude), and have a warrior lineage and/or bearing. But Its good, steady gold.

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>>50654636

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>>50654652

>>50654571
See previous replies in the thread(s). What you're saying simply isn't true, or, at the very least, not the entire truth.

If anything, it appears even more ridiculous, not less. And the main point is still there - that you'd go from the Old World to Ulthuan (regardless of whether you go into the mists or just follow the wall in the same way you'd follow a coastline) and then to the New World.

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>>50654668

>>50654675
The mists kill you. In the army books it mentions in the Yvresse entry that they're full of Daemons.

In the Defenders of Ulthuan book it mentions that in Saphery the only way to reach the Tower of Hoeth is just to continue along the road. If you're pure of heart and seek knowledge or have permission, you eventually reach it although there's no way of knowing when. Otherwise you get stuck and wander on the road forever until you die.

You think they didn't do that with the mists around Ulthuan too?

In the same book it takes the complete concentration of a Mage in the Heavens lore to keep them from crashing while on patrol in view of the coastline, and the indication is that the single best mariners in the world die out there all the time.

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>>50654692

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>>50654759

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>>50654770

>>50654521
And like I said, the High Elves sink any ship that comes close to Ulthuan that they don't specifically allow to get that close. They just found that their navy couldn't contain the sheer number of ships so the mists were one more layer of defense. It's not that nobody found it, you just don't survive a fight with the High Elf navy as they literally have air craft carriers.

>>50654742
>The mists kill you.
Again, nothing you said is of any relevance. Check the other replies on the topic. Including the one you replied to.

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>>50654802
>It's not that nobody found it

So, the mists are of no relevance to the issue, the ships are of no relevance to the issue, and knowing where Ulthuan is is of no relevance to the issue.

What exactly is the problem here, again? Literally everything said so far just makes the logic presented in >>50643503 and >>50652476 stronger. Is this deliberate? Because it didn't sound like that was the original intention.

>>50654955
Okay, let me put it this way.

This island is there. You can try to sail there, despite all the rumours of death. You find a wall of mist that never seems to end. Captain! Off the port side! Your first officer is killed seconds after, as is the second, then your gunnery master. Moments later half your crew is pincushioned with white shafted arrows.

Just because it's there and you can try to find it, doesn't mean you'll survive to tell the tale. High Elves don't fuck around. There are probably a lot of people who tried to 'discover' this landmass but ended up being killed or drowned because of their attempt to do so.

>>50654890
If you don't reach Ulthuan, and don't come back to tell the tale, you don't count as discovering it. The Empire didn't even have contact with High Elves until Finubar took a trip as a young man.

>>50654955
Why would you move Ulthuan? Its supposed to be the Undying Lands in Warhammer.

>>50655035
High Elf babes, bruh. You can grow old but they'll still look like mid twenty year olds. Hell, even the oldest they possibly look is a few age lines at the worst.

>>50655074
No, I mean why would you move it from being Greenland to Mexico?

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>>50655012
>>50655015

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

At this point I really don't know what to tell you, because it seems like you're just not reading the posts.

>>50655035
>Why would you move Ulthuan?
Because it make no sense having it where it is.

>Its supposed to be the Undying Lands in Warhammer.
I don't know what to say to that other than yes.

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>>50655312
If you don't understand, there's no shame in admitting it.

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>>50655295
>Greenland

It's not Greenland. Greenland is a frozen northern wasteland of an island. Ulthuan is half a continent spanning 1/2 to 2/3rds of the not!Atlantic between not!Africa/not!Europe and not!America.

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>>50655356
I understand what's being said, it's just that it's not relevant to the discussion, but it seems like you think it is, which is odd, considering the content of the posts.

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>>50655442
Then you should understand that Ulthuan isn't some undiscovered land mass that is completely invisible to the rest of the world. They make it a point to keep you from finding out. If you do, you die. Unless you're a trading partner in the modern age. Unless you're stating something different from what you're actually thinking, the point has been made.

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>>50655295
>Why would you move Ulthuan?
>>50655312
>Because it make no sense having it where it is.

Let's not forget the narrative advantages discussed in the old thread, of separating the elves and making them more than just relating to humankind, playing up the schisms as actual sociopolitical schisms, not simply factional tropes that oppose eachother, and the connection to the Far East and the not-Pacific.

I especially liked the idea of the conflict with Nippon and them losing osing the Gates of Calith, denying the elves access to the western seaway to the Kingdoms of Ind and the Tower of the Sun and the Tower of Stars.

>>50655482
>Ulthuan isn't some undiscovered land mass that is completely invisible to the rest of the world

I never said it was. I said the complete opposite.

>They make it a point to keep you from finding out.

After being (unsuccessfully) raided for countless years. It's still patently ridiculous to claim that all norscans beelined for Ulthuan and get slaughtered, when they can pass the landmass, following it to the New World.

>Unless you're stating something different from what you're actually thinking, the point has been made.

The point that you'd still use Ulthuan as a point of reference to the New World, it being situated in the middle of the not!Atlantic? Yes.

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>>50655545
>>You realize how patently ridiculous that is, considering how long humans have been in contact with elves and the location of Ulthuan? In the real world, vikings sailed in dingy longboats all the way to Iceland, saw the coast of Greenland under specific weather conditions, sailed there, and worked their way by coast to North America.

Humans haven't had formal relations with the Asur until the Great War. Before then humans were kill on sight, explorer or raider.

Also, a successful raid doesn't mean you get off scot free. The Sea Lord Aislin made a job out of wiping out, not just retaliating, wiping out Norscan tribes that even thought of siding with larger hordes. Every man, woman and child was killed.

You're simply more likely to see the New World because the Lizardmen don't actively prevent you from exploring their half of the continent. They allow Skeggi to exist, so long as the other Children don't steal plaques or anything of actual value from the Lizardmen or make war.

>>50654668
I love Polandball. Why hasn't this been more of a thing in the general yet?

>>50654759
I don't get it.

>>50654759
White Walker invasion is apocalyptic. The Empire is expected to lead the charge when it comes to world ending threats.

It's Facebook tier shit, but that's just how I see it.

>>50655809
>>50655780
The Empire would eat the White Walkers for breakfast. Fuck, they wouldn't even make it through Troll Country in Kislev.

>>50655891
speaking of which, how exactly will an empire army, unaided by magic and the like do against the Golden Company?

>>50655938
That has elephants and pike tactics, right? I only remember a few things here and there about their composition, but they'd likely handle them like a jumped up Border Prince. Strategy and tactics. Pikes and halberds in front, crossbows behind, handguns on the flanks and paying out the ass for the Knightly Orders to assist.

So I finally got to play a full session of WFRP 2nd edition with a decent Gm and it was good fun. As a question of rules, are you allowed to make skill check for a skill you have no % chance for if your GM gives a bonus? My Heal skill had 0 as the required number, but he gave me a +30 so I was able to roll.

>>50656080
That's really up the GM but I wouldn't allow it. If only because I know first aid and CPR and if you don't know it then you probably shouldn't try it. Unless it was like putting a bandaid on a booboo, in which case you shouldn't need a test in the first place.

My group and I have instituted a 'Critical Success/Fail' system to the d100 roll, 001 and 100 respectively.

Also, what was your adventure like?

>>50656135

We started in Stirland as an Elf Mage(me), a Human Squire, a Human Hunter and a Dwarf Trollslayer.
We went throughout Wurtbad looking for jobs, eventually heading out to meet some mercenaries. On the trip we fought off a band of beastmen, where I gained an insanity from tempting fate and casting Drop a bunch to disarm them. We got turned away by the mercs, took the heads of the Ungors in for a bounty, left the city after seeing the long lines for healing at the chapel, and proceeded to head back out into the woods to find some coven of nuns who might heal us.
This, of course, brought forth more beastmen. Thirty in total.
Between the Slayer's berzerker rage and me using magic to make the sound of charging knights, we thinned it down to about 6. The Squire charged in for glory, got knocked off his horse, and by a miraculous roll under 14 for riding, I climbed on it, grabbed the unconcious Hunter( Who managed to get the Slayer's axe shattered onto his face via crit fail.) and dying slayer and ran to the coven(Or whatever term the GM used) of healers. While we were getting healed, the Squire was taken by the beastmen as a sacrifice, only to burn a fate point and be rescued by some Reiksguard.

There will be more shortly, this is getting long.

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>>50656345
Keep it going. I love sharing WFRP adventures. My players have never had to expend a Fate Point to cover everyone, just one person or mostly everyone except for one guy with brass balls. I've always wanted them to get dunked by a warherd and get rescued by a blonde youth with tow hammers.

>>50656080
Such a situation would be rare, but yes.
Consider Intelligence 20, Heal +10, and a Very Hard (-30) test.

Then due to supremely helpful circumstances, a +30 modifier from equipment.

So yeah, so long as the final number is more than 0%, you can roll.

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>>50656345
The Squire, in his immense wisdom, takes a spear from the alter he was placed on, one that was permanently stained with blood. We met up with him on the way back to Wurtbad where we spent our money at a bathhouse to celebrate being alive. We were then hired by the local winemaker's guild to guard a caravan to Swarzhafen. The road there was unusually clear, until we stopped to camp, where by all but me( at the same odds as the riding test, 14) suffered atrocious Survival checks for finding camping spots. The Hunter and Slayer that were meant to stand on watch ended up paralyzed by spiders, and had taken an entire d5 of insanity from the experience of being covered in giant spiders for 8 hours. When we went to save them in the morning the Squire used the spear he found, and it made him decide to start carving a hole in the Hunter's collarbone. I failed to cast Sleep, so the Hunter burned his last fate point to have me save him. The horror after realizing what he had done caused the Squire to take 10 insanity, meaning I, as the mage, was the only one with less than 5 insanity. We seperated it from him, and of course being away from it makes him feel naked. The two wounded are dragged back to camp, and while the caravaneers argued over whether he was safe to travel with their doctor crit fails stitching up the Hunter, at which point I make the initial questionable heal roll.(Which I was given a fate point for succeeding.) Against all odds, the caravan decides to allow the Squire to follow, and since we couldn't directly pin the cause on the spear, he kept it.

My expectations were to be a useless but comical token female, I was not prepared to be the team carry.

>>50656426
Two, not tow. But wields them with the power of a tow motor.

>>50655938

Gunline. And steam tanks

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Am I the only one that'd really want to see more chaos elven art and fluff? Or dwarves, for that matter, but at least for those we do have the Chaos Dwarves, and dwarves are supposed to be resistant to the influence of chaos anyway.

Because elves are subject to the same corruption that humans are, yet we never see elves go bananas over corruption. I'd love to see some Khainite Swordmasters that fall to Khorne, some some Loremasters that turn to Tzeentch.

Or just about any kind of Nurglite Elf.

>>50656780
Personally I think it's just you. Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch had nothing to offer the elves of Ulthuan.You need to remember that the Cult of Excess took hold because the elven people were bored to death at the time.

>>50656080
Do you mean you don't have that skill or your skill % somehow manages to be 0?

>>50656751
>steam tanks
There were only, what, 12 of them? Less? I don't remember, but steam tanks were an extremely limited resource and there's no new ones, because the inventor died.

>>50656553
Is this a homebrew thing?
I am pretty sure you can't get more insanity points than one at a time.

>>50655938
The empire would dominate them at range with gun lines and artillery. If they don't break from that, the infantry holds them while the Knights deliver a decisive charge and the pistoliers harass the flanks.

>>50655485
Elves are not supposed to be tied directly to humans, they're supposed to be their own plot entirely.

Just like how the Empire doesn't really tie into the Tomb Kings.

These factions can encounter each other, but should not be forced into a small room and made to make small talk.

>>50655677
Someone would actually have to make the Polandball comics, and that's kind of hard given that before there wasn't a very good faction symbol for everyone.

However, I think TW:W will give us a small symbol for every race that we can use.

>>50656780
>Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch had nothing to offer the elves of Ulthuan.
They have the same things to offer the Elves that they do Humans.

>Hunger for power, desire to kill
>Freedom from grief, survival of the family
>Ambition, selfishness
>Progress, knowledge and manipulation

Elves aren't free from any of those desires and feelings. Far from it, they're canonically more ambitious than humans as stated over and over in the Elf-centric novels. They're political as fuck, and all four Chaos Gods have an important place in both war and politics.

The only reason given for Chaos to have nothing to offer Elves is the writers not wanting Chaos Elves to be a thing and giving them Elf gods that are already dead instead. "They know there's no good end in Chaos." Doesn't stop the humans who are aware of that, and it certainly puts a big limit on Chaos if the Elves are automatically immune to being corrupted to their side.

>>50657296
I completely agree, which is the basis of the suggestion.

>>50657184

The golden company hasn't got anything that can kill a steam tank, 0 artillery

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Thoughts on the new DLC for Vermintide?
Hope the Pick will be fun to use.
Dunno about the falcion

>>50654460
Gold Magic

literally making money

>>50655485
I'm not fond of moving ulthuan and I think the reasons you exposed are a bit fallacious
>the New World has been found out by humans before the great war against chaos, when their relations with elves were trading relation at best
>elves are reluctant to let human ships going there
>unlike our world, when the Norscans founded Skeggi they "shared" this discovery with pretty much everyone
>explorers aren't looking for a passage to the far east
In that regard, it makes perfect sense for the old worlders to call this the new world, and that even if they knew about ulthuan before.

I need a daemon-prince sized (or tad bigger) body for a vermin lord conversion. anyone know any suitable minis that are GW daemon prince?

if you say "Reaper miniatures", I'll put a curse on you that will make GW discontinue your favourite model

>>50658213
Ratogre mini?

>>50658255
too small

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>>50658213
Are you looking for specifically a GW mini ?

>>50658213
correction: that are NOT GW daemon prince

>>50658269
no, any producer is ok

>>50658283
Well, >>50658269 this guy on the right is from Prodos games if this is what you are looking for.

>>50658300
hm, looks rad, will check him out

>>50658309
it's called Archon in their range, but they probably have more demons that could fit the bill

>>50654759
Not to be autistic(Well, look which board I'm on) but

1)Only show watching neanderthals call them White Walkers, they're actually called "The Other"

2) Westeros would probably be able to hold them back rather easily if not for the fact that the country doesn't believe in a threat from the north, and its embroiled in a massive civil war.

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>>50658413
"Other" is such a cliched, generic and non-descriptive name. Are white, do walk. Are White Walkers.

>>50658413
how would they hold off an unkillable army when valyrian weapons are like rare pepes?

>>50658413
As someone that's read all the books but only ever watched the first two seasons of the show, I always refer to them as White Walkers.

>>50658142
You make it sound like the argument was that Ulthuan should be moved because the New World is called the wrong thing, and that it is right to call it the New World, regardless of when it was discovered, and therefore Ulthuan makes sense in it's current position.in

Wasn't there any point in this thought process were you either asked yourself if this was a complete misunderstanding on your part, or realized that argument was fucking retarded?

>>50657336
Hell, even ogres get corrupted, and they're stated to be resistant. Meanwhile, all elves are bored and ambitious degenerates that plateu in their abilities, and are all aethyrically attuned. They even have their own blood god already.

I'm OK with them being rare, I understand that elves are disciplined, artificially protected, andmore aware of Chaos, but there never being any, not a warband that overextends and goes rogue, not a single circle that summons Nurgle to protect the forest, and not a single lorekeeper driven mad by esoteric knowledge?

>>50659016
Actually, the 8th ED HE army book says that while Elves were resistant to the warping physical changes of Chaos, they weren't immune to spiritual corruption of Chaos. Chaos tainted their spirits and made them arrogant and spiteful beyond reason.

Man, WFRP 3E was probably the best fantasy RPG system I have ever used. It had its share of flaws (anyone arguing it was perfect is dipshit) but on the whole the good far outweighed the bad and there was enough shit to make really solid adventures with very little prep work as the DM.

Anybody else play it?

>>50659169
>bait

can Empire have advanced clockworks? I'm planning a mordheim table at the moment, and I'm contemplating making a clockwork bridge, that will open or close at certain pre-defined point in the match. say, if I place it next to a clocktower and glue some gears on - would it be plausible to have the clockworks open/close it?

>>50659264

Hardly.

I own the entire collection of 3e. Literally everything for it. The hardcover books, the adventures, the magic, faith, dwarf, epic level, and martial focused supplements.

All the cards sleeved and placed in binders seperated by type and alphabetized (that took some time) including the small cards. Expect for the small cards for random effects, those were also sleeved but placed in a wooden sorting tray breaking them down by type as well.

Hell, I found out the career sheets were the same size as photographs so I even have them all sorted in binders as well as the party sheets, monster group sheets, epic level boss adjustment sheets.

I took all the bits and placed them in clear round jars and placed those jars in small treasure chest.

I took the stands and all the character roles and enemies standees and broken them down alphabetically and by type, slapped a rubber band on them and split them up into small treasure chests as well.

This took some work, but I know where everything is, can make an adventure for several hours of gameplay in about 30 minutes of prep work, and have had people always leave the table happy with the game they just played.

Great system, but it does have its share of flaws.

>>50659339
Sunk cost fallacy.

>>50659484

Nope.

If it isn't your cup of tea, that is fine, broseph.

The system competently manages chases, investigation, social interactions, and doesn't require killing mobs of enemies to advance. The character customization is pretty off the charts, the narrative dice mechanic leads to some fun and memorable experiences (but it does take some getting used to) and all the bits and bobs makes for a more immersive experience and allows people to know how everyone in their party is doing at a glance.

The downsides are there too.
All those bits and bobs are not necessary to play the game but not having them slows it down and makes it dramatically worse.
It doesn't handle a player party greater than four people well at all.
The core box only supports having one GM and three players
The character sheets coming in pads is pretty annoying because when those character sheets run out there isn't any readily available ones that are the right size to go into a player box
The stance system and dice system take some getting used to (the standee stance marker is pretty much useless)
The GM screen is pretty much garbage
Splitting a lot of core Warhammer stuff up among a bunch of different purchases was fucktarded (the different cults of chaos, the madness, the chaos mutations, and such are all outside the base game)
The monster party sheets are tricky to utilize and shouldn't be touched unless it is a boss or end level encounter
The high level of character customization leads to a lot of analysis paralysis when going to spend experience points
It was such a drastically different system than anything else out there but was using an established IP it was very off putting to vets with their first encounter with it
Sharing a dice pool is kind of necessary given how wacky large they can get pretty early on which wasn't something a lot of gamers liked.
People forget about the 'perform a stunt' action all the time and seem to think they require an action card for all actions.

>>50659602

(cont)

The spell and faith users having to juggle their 'mana' supply is pretty annoying and not recommended for newbies at all.
Having to realize that running is an option because at best you are getting 3 XP at the end of the night but most of the time you are getting 1 XP is something newbies don't understand too well.

All in all though, even with those legitimate flaws, it is a great system.

All weapons are important from start to finish. Those knives you like using? From the on-set to the end they are viable option for most encounters.

Enemies are deadly and wounds aren't very easy to get rid of so it places a lot of focus on survival.

Chases and investigations using the progress tracker keeps the players focused on what is important story wise while allowing them the option of ignoring it but seeing that they are fucking up with a visual cue.

The party sheet also encourages them to play to their strengths and work as a group of get very slight collective thumps on the nose from the GM.

WFRP 3e introduced a shit load of really great concepts (and some brand new problems) and it is my go to for most fantasy RPG sessions for an in person playing group.

The biggest and most glaring flaw it has these days though? Playing it online is hot garbage. All those bits and bobs that add to the game was probably one of the most effective anti-piracy measures out there, but it killed the online social aspect of the game.

>>50658905
Burn them.

>>50658905
GoT has so many homosexual characters...
so they send the flaming gays against White Walkers!

>>50659331
In recent years yes, but not really when Mordheim was hit. It would still be fitting, but less than in any "modern" city.

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>>50654416
I remember my group got wasted after finishing a year long campaign and we ended up talking about running a beastmen campaign where the players skulk around the woods doing classic beastmen shit. Now the idea never took off more than that but the idea still intrigues me.

So is a beastmen campaign possible? How would you do it?

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>>50659602
>>50659667
It all depends on what you're looking for in an rpg, really.
WFRP 3e seems like a well-designed game, but personally I'm not all that interested in a game as such, more a way of adjudicating player decisions that stays in the background. In that respect, a lot of the mechanics of 3e, good as they are, just get in the way.

Which is not to say that WFRP 2e doesn't have its flaws. The economy is busted, half the weapons are useless and every attack takes half a dozen rolls and two tables to resolve. Luckily it's also reasonably easy to house rule, something 3e makes much harder.

Whatever floats your boat really. I was more annoyed that 3e replaced a game I liked better, but now that Warhammer is gone for good that all seems a little trivial.

>>50660026
Give them plenty of bad shit to do but keep a firm leash on them by having a Brayshaman who orders them about. Sack this town, burn that temple, kill these elves, etc. Also allow other races, so if you have a Gor and an Ungor, but someone wants to play a Minotaur then let them. Just use the rules for Ogres and change it up a bit.

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>>50659169
>>50659339
>>50659602
>>50659667
Not sure if this is advanced bait, or previously unseen levels of autism and sunk cost.

3e is gameist rollplaying at it's worst, with extremely boardgamey influences and a tone completely alien to Warhammer Fantasy, very much a precurser to the high adventure of it's mechanical successor, Star Wars: Edge of the Empire.

>work as a group or get very slight collective thumps on the nose from the GM.
Cute.

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>>50660026
As someone who loves beastmen, I think you'd have a hard time doing a beastman campaign proper. They just don't have enough 'stuff' to interact with. No cities, no technology, a bare minimum culture. They don't really interact with other races. Everything you do is going to revolve around raiding.

A Path to Glory campaign would be interesting though. You could have the players as an aspiring chaos champion and retinue. Take some inspiration from Black Crusade, quest for chaos relics, recruit mutant weirdos to your cause, engage in trippy realm of chaos shenanigans and gain the favour of the dark gods.

>>50660169
Do beastmen have human totems like humans have animal totems ?

>>50660186
Only if beastmen worship humans as gods.
Meaning, no.

>>50660186
that's actually an interesting idea
not Warhammer material, but still

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>>50660040
>economy is busted
Granted. I think the intent was that it was supposed to rely a lot on GM fiat and arbitration, but without any guidelines or frames of reference, it's hard as fuck to judge.

>half the weapons are useless
Disagree, unless we're talking about the Armory, that regrettably contains a number of flat-out superior and overpowered shit that trumps everything else if you use the alternative rules presented, and that inexperienced GM:s hand out not thinking about the consequences.

Could absolutely use an overhaul, if for no other reason than the fact that the base rules are simply boring in that all great weapons are one thing, all hand weapons are one, etc., unless the GM gets creative (which he should, but again, there's no guidelines).

>every attack takes half a dozen rolls and two tables to resolve.

This, though, I don't understand. It's usually fast as shit, assuming you don't get bogged down in counting modifiers.

The best rule for the WHFRP games (and WH40kRP) is for the players to always ever only roll against their Skill (or Characteristic) and then have the GM make a quick judgement call based on modifiers, the player coming with additional suggestions as appropriate ("Oh, but I'm standing on a table!").

After the player has rolled, he just says how many degrees of success or failure he got. The GM then modifies these as according to the difficulty, explaining the reasoning if it's necessary ("The table gives you a bonus for elevation, sure, but it's also a flimsy wooden table in the middle of a fight, so it's not only uneven ground; because you failed by two degrees, the table collapses, but you manage to maintain your footing."

This saves a ton of time, and actually makes it so that the GM can adequately call general difficulty with a minimum of back-and-forth and the player(s) making assumptions based on the combat modifiers. All they should concern themselves with is really what action they're taking.

>>50660242
After me and my group got OWA, the first thing I did was change the rules for Best Quality hand axes. Impact on a one handed weapon was so bad I can only think an intern wrote that and nobody found out until they had printed it.

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>>50660186
>Do beastmen have human totems like humans have animal totems?

If you want them to, sure.

>>50660169
You could make it so that the players in such a campaign are beastmen, though. That could be interesting. While it's never explored in the fluff, there's no inherent reason a beastman or mutant-turned-beastman or practically any worshipper of chaos could not become a champion and/or be on the Path to Glory.

I'd place it in the aftermath of the Storm of Chaos (so, the base setting assumed for WHFRP2). The chaos armies are routed. But the Forest of Shadows is absolutely swelling with disparate forces of chaos; norscan raiders, wise-men, daemonhosts, possibly even chaos dwarves.

It's actually an amazing starting-point, because you could be literally anything chaos-related and you'd have an excuse as to why you are there, together.

Unite the herds. Burn Middenheim in the night. Let none survive.

>>50660327
There's a reason. The Chaos Gods literally don't give a shit about Beastmen, preferring to favour human champions from the Norscans and Kurgans. This fuels their hatred for humans even more.

>>50660356
but why not decide "screw this!" and take out the frustration on the forces of Chaos instead? "You treat us like shit, well, feel the might of the herd!"

>>50660297
I know, I know. It's just.. not very well-thought out. The economy being a bit busted or weird, sure, I can accept that. I can accept that sometimes, worse weapons are worth more, and better weapons are cheaper to produce, but might be rarer.

I can accept that prices are often counter-intuitive from the perspective of someone living in a globalized economy of supply and demand. And I can accept that sometimes, the prices are just fucking weird. Annoying, maybe, but it's an easy fix. The GM says no, that's fucked, this sounds a lot more reasonable.

Listed prices are basically suggestions.

But the alternate rules for weapon diversification in OWA is beyond fucked. The main issue I see here is that GM:s have a hard time saying no - to me, a Best-Quality Hand Axe is something that's likely in practice a lot rarer than the listed rarity would suggest. A GM is entirely in the right when saying that there's simply no Best-Quality Hand Axes available here. The dwarves might have some.

But at the same time, a hand weapon with Impact is just insane compared to practically all other hand weapons, and there's honestly no inherent, logical reason why specifically an act would have that special quality. Once a player gets their hands on it, they're just never going to need any other hand-weapon, because for all intents and purposes, this is it, this is the win. And that's just boring. I'd be more OK with it if there'd be a reason to not use it all the time, or if there were other best-craftsmanship hand weapons that you might want to switch to, but there's really not.

I started working on a custom armory, but I got bored. I should get back to that, at some point.

>>50660377
They do, but an unassuming city with bright colours and happy citizens presents a much better target than some shitty tents and warriors that could probably fight you off despite being out numbered. And they still fight for approval from the Gods.

>>50657803

I nearly choked on my drink when I saw that flexing rat.

>>50660242
On the weapons:
Great weapons are strictly inferior to Halberds in every way.
Spears would be too, but they don't need a specialist weapon talent.
Daggers, knuckle-dusters and quarterstaffs are worse than hand weapons, but you could say they're easier to conceal.
Foils are strictly inferior to rapiers.
Shortbows are strictly inferior to Bows.
Slings are the same as shortbows AND they need a talent. They're light I guess.
Gunpowder weapons in general are hideously expensive a pain in the arse to reload. They do good damage, but the cons far outweigh the pros.

On the complexity of attacks, the process is something like:
1. Roll attack (with modifiers)
2. Determine hit location
3. Opponent parries or dodges (with modifiers)
4. Roll damage (with modifiers)
5. Calculate damage according to location and subtract from wounds
6. If it's critical, roll d100 and cross reference with the crit value
7. Apply result to crit table appropriate to hit location
8. Apply results of crit

Most of this only applies on damage or critical damage, but it's a pain anyway.
You can simplify things a lot by using simple armour (which I usually do for NPCs) and by taking NPCs out of action when they hit 0 wounds rather than going into critical, but that makes fights an awful lot easier for the PCs.

Like I say, not a dealbreaker, but it could be a lot more streamlined.

>>50660414
>city is hit by severe drought, famine, plague, crime, traveling theater got burnt down by witch hunters for saying that art is pure magic, and the weather is foul second month in the row
>a horde of beastmen approaches
>cheer up the citizens by silly antics, shit the fields, so crops grow, fuck some cows and pigs so more livestock is born, use shaman magics to fix the weather and cure the plague, and then leave
a city made happier and richer today is a city that will be more fun to pillage in a few months

>>50660356
>There's a reason. The Chaos Gods literally don't give a shit about Beastmen, preferring to favour human champions from the Norscans and Kurgans. This fuels their hatred for humans even more.

I know that they prefer to favour human champions, but that is likely because the beastmen are not only servants by default - they are already corrupted, fallen, and have no choice no matter what - but they are also relatively fucking useless. They're bestial and animalistic, base, and practically retarded.

What I meant was that there's no *inherent* reason why it must be like this. There's no *real* reason why a beastman champion could not rise above the herd, and fight tooth-and-nail for the favour of the chaos gods. It is a player character, after all. Even if he fails spectacularly, there's really no fluff reason to shoot down the scenario before it even gets off the ground.

I think it could be really interesting to have a group of beastmen say fuck it, we're doing things our way now, even if that will get them hated by others. I think especially the chaos dwarves would take issue with it, because they're "civilized", and the daemonhosts would laught at it - at first.

The more I think about it, the more I love the idea. Get out of the Forest of Shadows, break through the enemy lines, get to the Brass Keep, claim whatever is there or help Archaon regroup, sneak into Middenheim and burn it to the ground. A group of beastmen that does that would surely be noticed. If the players survive, let it snowball. Be on the Path to Glory.

>>50660474
I'm pretty sure that beastmen are driven to rape and pillage. Going by their original backgrounds in source material (prior to their creation as a warhammer fantasy concept), they likely procreate exclusively through rape or by adding mutants to their herds (which are likely raped, too, just to be sure), and the reason beastmen even look like they do is because they embody the fears and revulsion of the local populace; it's not just that the peasants would likely be scared shitless, but their fears are likely also formative on beastman behaviour to some degree.

That being said, there is some minor evidence of not-psychotic ultraviolence-rapey beastmen. I don't remember what it was in, but it was something about a baby put into the woods.

>>50660696
>original backgrounds in source material (prior to their creation as a warhammer fantasy concept)
Speaking of which: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Broo

>>50660696
Beastwomen save mutant children called Gaves. They're actually not bad at all and are demure and soft spoken, but that's not a good thing when you're around rapists with the evil gene.

>>50660458
>Great weapons are strictly inferior to Halberds in every way.
That's on purpose because the halberd is the refined end product of a two handed weapon.
I've never seen useing a halberd instead of an two handed weapon, though.
>Foils are strictly inferior to rapiers.
Agree, this should get changed.
>daggers, knuckle-dusters and quarterstaffs are worse than hand weapons, but you could say they're easier to conceal.
As it should be.
Daggers are weapons you use either as hidden weapon or when you loose your main weapon.You can easily housrule knuckle duster works with unarmed fighting, if it isn't the case already.
>Shortbows are strictly inferior to Bows
Shortbows are usually historical not that common of use anyway. It's more of an NPC weapons for folks such as goblins.
>Slings are the same as shortbows AND they need a talent. They're light I guess.
Also cheap as hell and all you need are stones for ammunition and again only common for Halflings or a few basic careers that proves the talent anyway.
>Gunpowder weapons in general are hideously expensive a pain in the arse to reload.
Well gunpowder weapons should be rare and most of the time like crossbows one use only.
You either have enough cover to reloud, draw another gun or go close combat.
>but the cons far outweigh the pros.
If you have the money a pistol is a neat addition.
By the my gm gave it a little buff by ruling gunpower also has the armor piercing quality.
>On the complexity of attacks, the process is something like...
All that is done within like 5-20 seconds, except critical but that doesn't happen every turn
It may be longer than playing D&D but that's it.
I think it is short enough to keep the fighting entertaining.

>>50660813
The weapons were originally created relatively rules-light. For example, look at the stats for halberd vs. greatweapon. Mechanically, halberd is always better, and we know ig's on purpose.

Now, going into a regular house, which would you want? The long-ass halberd that have a hard time not getting stuck in the ceiling or that requires room to turn around, or the sword that can be used as a poker and held low and close to the body when moving around?

Shit like this is actually important in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, but people tend to see a statline and think no further.

Both a hammer and a large knife could be considered a hand weapon, but only one can cut a rope and only the other can smash a lock, but their statblock is the same.

>>50661237
you can cut rope with hammer, it just takes time

>>50659032
That's even more stupid. They can get the perks without worrying about becoming a Chaos Spawn.

>>50660696
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Broo

That's early Warhammer Beastmen. Beastmen didn't get their own origins different from that other than copyright name changes until later.

>>50660377
There's Beastmen of Malal. Its fair to assume that's the reason they worship him, because at least he hates everyone equally like Sithrak from Oglaf.

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>>50660813
>>50661237
This is my own set of melee weapon and armour tables.

The weapons were tweaked to remove some redundancies and give things like daggers a niche that isn't just 'hide in your underwear at the masked ball'.
The armour table was designed to allow sets of mismatched armour like you see a lot in the art. You can wear a bevor, a secrete and still have space for a sweet hat and skull on top!

>>50661463
Resistant isn't immunity. They can still get Spawned, but it takes longer as their bodies are magical in nature.

>>50661537
Still incentive. Reduced chance of becoming a Spawn on your path to Daemon Princedom?

Sign like half the Dark Elves up! Plus probably a fair amount of Caledorians, and northernmost Asrai.

We know they can become Daemon Princes because of Dechala being canon.

>>50661482

I tend to think that beastmen have multiple modes of reproduction.

Turnskins are one, those are true beastmen transmuted from humans. Mutants aren't technically beastmen, but they're fodder, so let's say they're a half point.

There are multiple spells to spontaneously transmute humans into beastmen, that's another.

I don't think they ever retconned them capturing and raping human women, so that's another.

We know for a fact that they have beastwomen kept in heavily-guarded harems, so that's one too.

Of course, Chaos can just spontaneously fart out more from the poles, so there's that.

And maybe they can even rape animals. South Pole beastmen are "true" beastmen; they're animals mutating towards humanity. Maybe they still share reproductive compatibility.

>>50661639
Heavily guarded harems that any Slaaneshi can literally waltz into, cuckold the herd, then tiptoe out while singing "Tralala, I fucked your wives, lahdeedah."

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I am currently playing in a WFRP 2e campaign.

I plan on becoming a Vampire, following Night's Dark Masters rules, but I'll be keeping it a secret from the rest of the party.
My DM already said he's fine with it, and we'll roleplay a 1on1 session on when and how I do receive the Blood Kiss, all of this without any one of the other players knowing it. We will then resume playing as if nothing happened, and in time the other guys will understand what I have become, hopefully creating an interesting roleplay hook.

There's a little thing that bugs me though: to roleplay a decent vampire you need to go through the Vampire careers, and the first one is the Thrall one, which I suppose implies I follow around an older, more experienced vampire as he teaches me the ways of the bloodsuckers: I can't really do that if I'm keeping it a secret from the rest of the party though.

>>50661662
Depending on your bloodline, Vampires are very good at illusion magic. The master would seem to be different people you keep meeting.

You can reason this away by being the Face of the party, in Shadowrun terms.

>>50661683
Why would an older vampire go through all of that hassle just to train one low tier newbie?

He would force me to leave the rest of the party to follow him, or straight up try to kill them.

I would probably join the Blood Dragons bloodline since my character is a norscan wandering berserker and it'd fit the theme. Blood Dragons are loners and wanderers by default though, so I guess it wouldn't be that bad if he just gave me the blood kiss and left me to improve by myself? That's kind of the point of Blood Dragons, and I've read up on the fluff they do tend to make good warriors into vampires if they find them worthy.

He might show up later on to test how hard I've trained as a rival/mentor and even become a recurring villain or something.

>>50661789
Seeing the potential of having a powerful apprentice, or sheer boredom or loneliness. Vanhal took an apprentice because he wanted someone living to talk to.

>>50661789
That makes sense. Prove yourself worthy to join the rest of the knights.

Also, if that was their plan you could fairly assume you're not the only apprentice. They'd be manipulating a series of vampire spawn at different positions of society to sow chaos or for a hostile takeover from within like Vlad did. Said spawn wouldn't know about each other.

>>50659331
Absolutely. Maybe have it tied to the tides or a bigass clock, but a retractable walking bridge is well within the realm of possibility.

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>>50660169
Why settle for cheap ripoff, when you can play the glorious original.

>http://glorantha.tumblr.com/post/97703013943/what-are-the-broo

>>50661789
>Why would an older vampire go through all of that hassle just to train one low tier newbie?

Fascination. Vampires do get interested in mortals, sometimes romantically, sometimes for no reason at all.

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So, this is a bit of a weird distribution, but I noticed that Naggaroth has a sizable beastman population.

What do you think Naggarothian beastmen would look like, taking into account that beastmen are created from the fears and superstitions of those around them?

>>50662803
They probably look like a mix of insects and lizards due to their proximity to Lustria.

>>50662803
Not related to beastmen, but what happens in Dragon Isles?

>>50662974
Feral Lizardmen. They have no Slann and basically fell into tribes that make war on each other. And there's magical birds that they worship.

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>>50662974
Unknown, as far as I know. There's two towers there, though, the Tower of the Sun and the Tower of Stars.

My personal interpretation is that these are elven colonies of one kind or another that have become somewhat isolated ever since Nippon seized the Gates of Calith, denying the elves access to the western seaway to the Kingdoms of Ind and the Tower of the Sun and the Tower of Stars.

It's also entirely possible that they are places where actual dragons live. Or both. If so, I would interpret the Tower of Stars as a Druchii colony, and the Tower of the Sun as a Asur colony.

>>50663027
>And there's magical birds that they worship.
The snake-birbs are in lustria too
a favourite meal of pygmies actually

>>50662803
There was fluff about lizard-like beastmen assaulting the dark elves from the caves in the west
they weren't lizardmen

>>50657216
There are spells, mutations, diseases, and some magical effects which can grant multiple IP at a time, I believe. Usually a dice number.

>>50663103
MexicUlthuan is a stupid idea and defeats the entire purpose of the High Elves, which is "If Tolkien Elves Were Pricks".

>>50663388
>defeats the entire purpose of the High Elves

What? How? Literally nothing else has changed other than geography, a reduction of stupid, and added potential.

>>50663466
>Geography
Their location is important, between the Old World and the Dark Elves. It also echoes the location of the Undying Lands from the works of Tolkien.
>Reduction of stupid
Explain
>Added potential
Literally nothing changes except that Ulthuan is no longer logically in a position to patrol the world oceans and make it to the Old World. In fact, instead of periodic relapses of war the two important Elf factions are in constant battle which makes a lack of final outcome make no sense. The reason the war has lasted is because of the superiority of the High Elf navy preventing invasion, with them being unwilling and unable to strike into Naggaroth due to their weak army comparatively. If they're right next door the High Elf navy can't prevent invasion forces, meaning Ulthuan should have been wiped out. Furthermore it fucks the story of Ulthuan, given that the point of the Sundering is that the Dark Elves crippled the High Elves militarily and economically in a permanent way by sinking portions of the continent then retreating to Naggaroth at full strength. Otherwise, they'd have crippled themselves too.

So you have to change a great deal, it fucks the story, and there's no good reason for it. Plus, Mexico is for dinosaurs and Beastmen. Not High Elves.

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Confirmation that the Tower of the Sun, Tower of Stars, and the Gates of Calith are/were all elven (and more).

Odd that Naggaroth isn't named.

>>50663762
High Elves refuse to talk about their dark kin with humans, so I imagine that Bretonnia and the Empire have no idea what Naggaroth is called. Just a hellish place of ice, elves and death.

>>50663682
>Their location is important, between the Old World and the Dark Elves.

Not really, no. Literally nothing important changes.

>It also echoes the location of the Undying Lands from the works of Tolkien.

Moving the western "undying lands" further west does nothing to change this.

>Literally nothing changes except that Ulthuan is no longer logically in a position to patrol the world oceans and make it to the Old World.

Neither of these things are true. Elven ships already make it all over the world.

>In fact, instead of periodic relapses of war the two important Elf factions are in constant battle which makes a lack of final outcome make no sense.

The elven factions are further apart. You realize that before, Naggaroth and Ulthuan were literally right next door to eachother, right? Now they're separated by a continent, except by seaway, with far more neutral elves between them (such as the Sea Elves interacting semi-freely with both, depending on circumstance).

Also, you are ignoring the fact that part of the reason people were discussing this change was to make the elven factions more ambiguous and not simply factional tropes pitted against eachother.

>. The reason the war has lasted is because of the superiority of the High Elf navy preventing invasion, with them being unwilling and unable to strike into Naggaroth due to their weak army comparatively. If they're right next door the High Elf navy can't prevent invasion forces, meaning Ulthuan should have been wiped out.

You make no sense whatsoever. You're being hilariously contradictory.

>So you have to change a great deal
>it fucks the story

Literally nothing established changes, other than it removes the previously discussed ridiculous nature of having a massive circular continent spanning 1/2-2/3 of the not!Atlantic and all the issues involved in that, such as not having discovered the New World until fairly recently.

>>50663682
>Plus, Mexico is for dinosaurs and Beastmen.
not!Mexico is for literally nothing. It's empty space and an unfilled void. Lizardfolk are largely not!SouthAmerican, and the idea was to populate parts of the west coast and the not!Pacific with Aztec/Indian-influenced Sea/Wood elves, adding yet more elven diversity instead of hard, concrete tropes.

>>50663762
>High Elves refuse to talk about their dark kin with humans, so I imagine that Bretonnia and the Empire have no idea what Naggaroth is called. Just a hellish place of ice, elves and death.

That's actually a fair point. I'm not sure if the Empire (or any humans) have had any amicable interactions with the Druchii whatsoever. It is also supposed to be an in-universe map, to some degree, so even if someone in the Empire knows, it's possible that the cartographer/loremaster that was working on specifically that had no idea what it was called.

Still, would've expected it to be noted something along the lines of "Here be assholes".

It's also interesting to note that compared to some other maps, Oriental Cathay and the Hinterlands of Khuresh have been switched. I think this may actually make more sense, but at the same time, having Cathay there instead would change a lot.

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>>50664020
>not!Mexico is for literally nothing. It's empty space and an unfilled void.
??????

>>50664123
It says The Land of Chill, so that's probably all the cartographer knows.

>>It's cold, and shit...I dunno what else.

>>50664123
Having Cathay there makes no sense anymore, since every mention of it in the lore has the great bastion bordering the northern stepes, not Khuresh

How much do we know about khuresh? I know they have a civilization of blood nagas, forest goblins, beastmen, and that humans never made it out of their primative state. What else do you think could lurk in the dark wilderness of khuresh?

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>>50664283
>blood nagas
So Khuresh is south east asia? Having it be north of Cathay makes even less sense then.
That map is in-character though, so we can perhaps chalk it up to a cartographic error.

Is that map from the 6th edition High Elf book? Jacob Stacheldhorf rings a bell. I think he's the character that made the map in the Orc and Goblin book and appeared somewhere in the Tomb King book too.

Why thenfuck is so much of the warhammer world barren wasteland? It's fucking stupid, and what's even worse is that many of the horde type factions live in those conditions. How the fuck do massive tribes of barbarians that live far from any other civilizations survive on the tundra? How are the badlands teeming with orcs when practically nothing grows there? How do ogre, who require tons of food, love in the bleak mountains of mourn instead of the fertile plains and forests of the world? And the darklands, a blasted volcanic waste, somehow supports massive tribes of greenskins and ogres, on top of a whole civilization of chaos dwarfs. And of course naggaroth has to be a barren waste too, that's where the evil elves lives. We need them in spiky black fortresses protruding from the tundra, can't let the bad guys live in temperate climates!

>>50665044
They don't sustain large numbers for very long, it's only during major invasions that they empty out of their lands but eventually fall to military defeat, infighting and lack of supply lines.

Orcs can live anywhere and don't need three square meals in a day, not when you can snack on gobbos.

Badlands has slaves to work the mines, and again greenskins live anywhere.

The Mountains of Mourn have massive beasts, it's basically the giant world from Super Mario Bros 3. And a good way to keep ogres from raiding your lands is to bribe them with food or money, or both.

Naggaroth is cold but the Dark Elves didn't have much of a choice after being defeated during the Sundering. They had no where else to go, and when that happens you don't get choosy where you land your floating castles.

so does anyone here compromise when painting?, making the quality of the rank and file lesser/more basic than hero/cool shit units? I just want to get done with these 8 assorted cannon/mortar crews fuck

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>>50665213
Of course. Spend more time on your heroes or the command group while the rest get the 'regiment' look. Though I don't do that anymore as I use my models for WFRP not Battles, so they all get the hero treatment. As best as I can, of course. Can't make up for a lack of skill but I can keep trying anyway.

>>50665321
well thats a pretty neet dude anon, I just feel I'll never be able to finish my warhammers painting and therefore never going to be able to play this bloody game!

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>>50665370
Thanks. I've always liked converting as much, if not more, than painting, and his was an easy change. I used some bluetac to make the wax seal on his scroll, kinda like orders from the Elector Count to legally fuck your shit up.

Also, you don't need to paint them to play. Unless it's like in a GW store or something. Me and my friends had a lot of gray or spray painted models on the table when we first started.

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How do we make the lizardmen the primary antagonists of the setting without having them fall to chaos?

>>50665576
They unearth old plaques that tell them to do a factory reset on the planet. The Slann follow their orders and set their legions of Saurus on the other races, good and bad alike.

>>50665576
Make everyone else fall to chaos.

>>50664442
>So Khuresh is south east asia?

I thought that was fucking obvious.

>>50665576
The Old Ones return to the world and want to scour it from chaos and all the tainted races that inhabit it to start anew. They spawn an enormous amount of lizardmen and Slann and set them to slaughter everything on the planet.

>>50665403
oh its just for my own sense of self satisfaction, do you use a varnish on yours to keep the paint on?, Ive got both shiny gw ard coat and vallejo dull cote, but the desire to do both of the coats is sinking

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>>50665908
I used Nuln Oil. I'm sure it isn't the best way to make the details stand out but to me it looks a lot better than if I hadn't.

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>>50665683
Well yes, it's in the right place on most of the maps.
But the naga thing really seals the deal on the influences they were intending for it.

>>50654692
Problem, Zangunaz?

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>>50665947
these are my 12 fucks + engineer
all are still wip I'm just trying to hype myself up to finish them instead of constantly retouching them

>>50665576
They unearth a tablet that says elves, humans and the rest of the humanoids are failed creations who are all inherently tainted by chaos and they have to start all over again. The world must be cleaned, so the Lizardmen extermination armies March out once more. I think there's a fan fiction on it called "strife within order" or something like that, on deviantart

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>>50666467
Looks decent. I actually have that fifth guy, I just don't know what colours to paint him as.

>>50664020
Why not just make a fourth group of Elves? You don't need to replace High Elves to do it.

>>50665576
>New plaques of the old ones found in the city of whatever, after reading it all Slann agree on it's meaning, full scale genocide of all sentient races, themselves included, is the only way to rid the world completely and permanently of Chaos
Here you go

>>50665947
Some drybrushing would really improve on that model, especially on the dragon body

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>>50667905
I did a bit, though it didn't come out very much. I had two green paints, which was dark green and blindly bright green. I'd have to find a slightly lighter shade to do that with and get a better camera.

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>>50656780
Chaos dwarf art, I can help with. Chaos Elves are near non-existant in the fluff because they are super vulnerable to chaos, hence the whole "wood/high/dark/sea elves all come together to fight back chaos cells in any elven culture" like the worshipers of slaanesh.

>>50657803
>Dat pic
What new DLC? Whats in it?

>>50659339
Its a great system if you hate money, fun and good game design.

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>>50667688
There are already Sea elves, and they exist actively in the fluff, and have has multiple army lists (typically in white dwarf).

They are the traders and in-betweens of all the other elves, and get along best with humans.

>>50668428
Karak Azgaraz
Gonna be released on the 16th.

>>50668704
So why move Ulthuan to Elfxico? Why not just put Sea Elves in Elfxico, and say they have a district in Lothern like they do Marienburg.

>>50668932
>Karak Azgaraz

Hold Axe-Fearless?

>>50660104

If you don't like it, that is fine, but I enjoy it.

>Gamey

Established mechanics are far from gamey.
the social aspects of the game are clearly established and it social focused characters can really shine.

>>50669294
Hold of the Fearless Warrior, probably. Khazalid isn't an especially expressive language, aside from curses and grudges of course, but I think a little leeway works with an imperfect translation.

>>50658905
Walk to literally anywhere volcanic and collect some obsidian to make jaguar warrior clubs and arrowheads?

>>50659727
Fire only works on the zambinos.

>>50668428

>People shit all over Warhammer 3e
>People praising the FFG Star Wars system

This is what bothers me about all of this nonsense.

They are the same thing.

>>50669294
Hold of the Fearless Axes, actually.

>>50669427
I have never played FFG's starwars system, nor am I interested. Its probably just as shit.

>>50669461

I can put cash on the people talking shit about Warhammer 3e didn't play it either.

>>50669427
Coke and Pepsi are the same thing, but I don't pour cola on my pizza, I pour in with my whiskey. Some things work well together while others don't.

>>50669493
I have actually played 3rdEd WHFRP, and own the starter set, thankfully as a gift rather than wasting my money. Its just a bad system, constructed for no good reason rather than revamping and cleaning up the previous one.

>>50669560

Check, you don't like it.

What part of it did you dislike the most?

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>>50669591
Aside from the fairly unintuitive mechanics that were attempting to remove numbers by abstraction, the proprietary nature of everything from card supplements to dice - especially when it comes to the expansion of a table past four player- REQUIRES either purposefully reproduced proxy of said components, or multiple purchase points. They basically made an expandable board game, but lacking a board, they slapped on the words "roleplay".

But in the end, opinions are like asshole: We all have one, and they are all full of shit. But my dead game is better than your dead game, because we still have an extremely active community producing content.

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>>50655677
Do the Lizardmen even have a fleet? I don't think they've ever tried crossing the 'World Pond' themselves.

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So...Can I play a badass Tomb King/Prince or Liche Priest in WHFRPG?

>>50669774
I don't think they need to as Slann can teleport their armies if they really need to go somewhere, but the Generals Compendium, one of the best books ever made by GW, had giant turtles that would ferry Saurus and other troops.

>>50669773

To be fair, numbers in RPGs ARE abstraction.

I get not liking unique dice and cards though. A completely valid complaint but a kind of weak one.

Not being able to go past four players is a major, major flaw that I completely understand.

I do notice that you failed to mention any of the actual mechanics though and instead listed material and concept concerns.

This leads me to believe, yet again, you didn't actually play the game. If you did you would point out the actual gameplay mechanics that are flawed.

>>50669427
Edge of the Empire wasn't replacing another system as far as I know.

Also, there's a target audience issue. WFRP 1 and 2e were gritty, low-powered very traditional/old-school rpgs.
People who like that sort of rpg quite often hate 'gamist' games. Consider how the OSR exploded after the release of D&D 4e.

>Lizardmen speak in chirps and growls
>Have names like Mazdamundi and Tic'taq'to

Who the fuck is naming them?

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>>50669839
That sounds really rad, and I would love to see some Chaos fleet get attacked by a literal turtleship.

But still, it would make sense to me that the elves are using fleets and warriors to keep people from their relatively paradise-like lands, while the Lizardmen sacrificed the verdantness of their lands to make it hostile to all other life, so if someone does come to them they'll get poisoned or bit or sick, and they don't need to defend the place unless anyone roots too far into the interior.

>>50669878
Except you're cherry picking from his list. Material and concept concerns are just as valid, no matter how you try to convince yourself otherwise.

Go play starwars and quit trying to shill, you cuck

>>50669878
Quit being a fag. Everything he listed is legitimate

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>>50670061
Slann. Skinks also speak more than just Lizard, whatever it's called. They act as translators and intermediaries.

>>50670062
Not only could it be swarming with Saurus, but it attacks as well. I wouldn't want to be on a ship that gets rammed by one of these.

>>50670095
>>50670109

I absolutely acknowledged his complaints as legitimate you illiterate cunts.

I just pointed out that what he is complaining about is no different than complaints someone would have from simply reading the back of the god damned core box and didn't address any of the actual gameplay mechanics.

THAT is what I am complaining about. Sometimes /tg/ is as bad as /v/ with people bitching about games that they never actually played.

>>50669878
>Sure, its written in bloody human feces, but did you actually read what he wrote?

This is you.

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>>50670165
Tell me something, why does this matter so much? Did you have stock in 3rd edition or something? 2nd edition, while flawed, was fine. A lot of people liked it and continue to play it. Hell, there are people who still play 1st edition, but I don't pester them about switching games.

If people don't like your game then just move on. You're not going to find out why because everyone has a different reason.

>>50670177

To be fair, if you run across a message written in bloody feces on a wall, you might better read what the fuck the guy wrote.

>>50669427
The other Star Wars systems are fucking awful, for one. Star Wars also tends to be less mud and blood than Warhammer, which suits the system better.

Even then, FFG SW fans will point out multiple serious problems. The gimmicky dice making online play a chore, the constant jewing with short splats, the worthless-out-of-the-box ship rules.

>>50669804
Strictly speaking, no, but it's easy to bash rules for that and Lure of the Liche Lord gives us a good example of what to expect out of a weaker one.

>>50670213

I am not trying to get people to change their editions at all. I am calling out a lot of people for talking shit about how bad a game is when it is blindingly obvious that many of those complaining about it haven't played it at all and are acting like they have just to shit on it.

If the same people were to say, 'I had no desire to play the game because of the price.' or 'I didn't want to invest in a new system' or any other complaint besides saying it is a shit system, not fun, and other such complaints without ever having played it, I wouldn't bitch like I am.

>>50670262
Any good supplements detailing The Land of the Dead/Nehekara?

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>>50669878
>>50670165
>>50670270

If you want to be pedantic about it, mechanically speaking, the entirety of the stat and action system varying so dramatically from the standardized system that was in itself an expansion of the statline common to WHFB, purely for the use of the "simplified" dice system, actually created more of a headache that 2 seconds of basic math could have resolved without issues. I will compare this to white wolf's system, which I also dislike in general.

I can go on, but the point is moot, because you will continue to dryhump your box set. The number are blunt and cannot be disputed: the vast majority dislike the system, the implementation and your need to be an argumentative cunt about it.

Good day, sir.

>>50670342
Lure of the Liche Lord is about a Nehekharan tomb, but it's located in the Border Princes rather than Nehekhara proper.

I don't remember anything else.

>>50669878
>>50670109
Has anyone else noticed how "neverplayer" is becoming the new SJW/neckbeard/hipster, a meaningless buzzword insult people trot out in place of an argument? I'm not denying there's a problem with people who've never played a game regurgitating opinions they got from other people who've never played it, but Christ, how many more version of Godwin's Law do we need before people get the underlying point?

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>>50670464
First I have seen of it, honestly.

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>>50670502
I've seen it more than a few times, usually to do with this same subject.

But I just want to talk about lore and WFRP.

Well the problems of Star Wars is completely other than WHRP 3ed.

WHRP 3 is a mostly failed test that was conducted on a licence they got for their boardgames. It's faliture is obvious considering how traditional is WH40kRP.

It made rather a fine game, that, with all it shortcomings, SW FFG RPG is. It's of course needlessly divided, but they checked with WH40k that people swallow it easily.

Look, how many trinkets you need for game to function? Custom dice. Cards and boxes are needless and best they could do for WHRP 3 ed. is to put them on the end of the book they later issued. Game was beyond repair.

For me it's strange how one could play a RPG that is so gamey and restricting, for example when coming to combat manouvres and it's hard to add or modify any stuff because you can't make good trinkets at home. There were litle profesions avalible and one of the WH beauties is that characters come from all walks of life, while SW has clear tropes that show most possible classes.

Enemy Within GM here. If you haven't seen me posting around, I am running a group which has just finished Shadows Over Bogenhafen and will be picking up with Death on the Reik in January.

Our group consists of:

>Halfling Valet
>Human Vagabond
>Dwarf Watchman
>Human Burgher

And tentatively... two more dudes who have yet to get back to me on availability but hung out at our last session and rolled up characters to be bystanders who took part in the climax.
>Human Apprentice Wizard
>Dwarf Agitator

You may remember there was a Human Squire in the group. He's moving to Ireland. Kinda fucks things up as I imagined that the Human Squire would get the magical templar longsword, Barrakul, included in Death on the Reik, and he was the only mildly religious one.

Anybody have experience running Death on the Reik? Any advice for running it? It doesn't seem to include a 'best' location for fighting the Red Crown cult, and kinda forgets about them halfway through the module, even though they're the impetus for the adventure.

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>>50672084
I assume you've got a copy of the Enemy Within Companion?

If not, you can get it here: https://onedrive.live.com/?id=C86ACFA4B04325B4%21222&cid=C86ACFA4B04325B4
There's a lot of good advice in there on the pacing of DotR.

>>50672084
Oh. Another problem I'm having. Everyone seems to be forgetting to take armor into account. We split the difference on armor and made the helmet and the body two separate pieces but ignored hands, feet, etc. However, they even forget their helmets. I think they're used to less crunchy systems. Any suggestions?

>>50672249
I do, indeed. I was just wondering if anyone here had first-hand experience.

>>50672249
Excellent

>>50667688
>Why not just make a fourth group of Elves?
We kinda did make a fifth group of elves.

>You don't need to replace High Elves to do it.
Nobody is replacing High Elves. That'd be massively retarded.

>>50664156
>central America
>Mexico

Fine, move it a bit north if it bothers you. I had thought the intention clear.

>>50672293
If they're in the thick of it and forget to use helmets, make them pay for it. They'll learn.

>>50673297
How about not moving Ulthuan, and just creating a new Elf homeland in Mexico for your new Elf group?

Because anytime you alter Ulthuan, you fuck up High Elves. That's their identity. It'd be like torching Athel Loren, or killing Malekith and Morathi.

>>50673470
>moving Ulthuan slightly to the southwest in order to avoid narrative issues and put a bigger focus on the elves as their own unique culture
>IT'S LIKE BURNING THE WOOD ELVES ALIVE AND MURDERING THE RULERS OF THE DARK ELVES

Are you being for real right now? I feel like I'm being Poe's Law'd. The only option I can imagine would be to make Ulthuan massively, massively smaller, about an 1/10th of it's current size, and still create a new elven homeland anyway, and that would probably interfere a hell of a lot more with established fluff than to simply move Ulthuan a little and blame it on shitty human cartography and uncertainty about just exactly where Ulthuan is, anyway.

>>50672084
>Our group consists of:
First of all, let me just mention how obvious it is that you stuck to the RAW and actually had them roll randomly on creation. A lot of GM:s waive this rule and let players pick, resulting in entire groups of cherry-picked careers. There should always be a good reason to waive that rule before doing so, and doing it for experienced individual players that can be trusted to not powergame is OK, but advancement in WFRP2 can take a lot of discipline, since a lot of people are used to games where you advance in a very linear fashion, whereas in WFRP that's pretty far from it - usually.

>Anybody have experience running Death on the Reik?
I wish.

Going to have to answer the other post in another post because of character limit.

>>50672293

>Everyone seems to be forgetting to take armor into account.
>We split the difference on armor and made the helmet and the body two separate pieces but ignored hands, feet, etc.

So if I understand it correctly, you're using the basic system in the game (which gives you flat armour for your entire body based on your predominant armor), but you specifically kept helmet separate?

I'm a fan of the more complicated system of having each piece by itself. It makes very little practical difference, since more often than not, they'll have the same armour everywhere anyway, and my suggestion is to also wing the hit locations a bit, always letting the GM decide what gets hit by who; the players shouldn't need to reference it themselves, they just need to know what was hit.

This means that sometimes I stick to it, sometimes I just say that it hit the body. It really, really speeds things up, more than you'd think, and after a while, the GM gets a feel for what's right, anyway, and it lets you say "You hit it in the face and it just blows up like a balloon. No chance to survive that. Goblin dead."

Anyway, about the issue, I really see no other option than to enforce it. Armour can be extremely important in WFRP2. The numbers are small, but important. If they can be assumed to not be in armour and hasn't explicitly put it on, that is no difference to me than them forgetting to tell me that they prepare their weapons, and thus they must take that half-action to pull them out when the shit hits the fan.

And if they forget to take armour into account, that's on them. I can remind them, and I will, of course, but ultimately, we're not going to go back and retroactively return health if they remember it 5 turns in.

They forget their helmet, they're going to have eat all the pain that comes with getting hit in the head, not just in terms of pure mechanics, but also narrative impact. They get hit in the face, it's going to hurt like hell, critical hit table or not.

hey guys, for 9th age/8th edition, is there much point to taking a warrior priest with hand weapons as opossed to greatweapon /hand wep and shield?

asking as I'm unsure on the rules and painting up a priest now, but not sure if I want to convert one of his dual hammers to a shield

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>>50660186
Yeah man, why wouldn't they?

>>50674238
>A lot of GM:s waive this rule and let players pick, resulting in entire groups of cherry-picked careers.
My gm does that though I would like to have a rolled party because often, especially with new players we always have basically a D&D group consists of a squire, a hunter, a thief and a wizard, despite there are so many funny careers.

>>50661493
you do realize Sithrak is a nice guy, and that book he wrote with the blood of his enemies on the parchment made from skins of his friends was just angsty teenager poetry, right?

>>50663388
>not reading Silmarillion

dude, High Elves are kind but lame pussy weaklings compared to Noldor

>>50665321
>holding a huge-ass sword that way

is he compensating or something?

>>50674589
to expand on this, how is the 9th age now, I was either going to learn that or 8th but recently have heard the direction of the 9th age now strays from fantasy (rulewise)

can anyone shed some light, or answer the original question even!

>>50675823
pretty good
current version is early sneak peek of 2.0, so a bit incomplete it seems, but already includes a new magic system (they moved away from WHFB lores) and new army structure (Lords and Heroes merged, Rare ditched in favour of army-specific categories, percentages are army-dependent instead of set in stone)

>>50675855
so it's become its own game instead of the successor to whf now, interesting thanks for the info anon.

>>50676014
it's becoming a proper next edition instead of 8.5

>>50674740
I know, and it just doesn't capture the spirit of Warhammer Roleplay, in my opinion. The idea of a "balanced party" doesn't work at all in WFRP. It also makes people value their characters, that could (and probably should) die at any moment.

>>50676080
Yeah the books sometimes push the idea that the players should be a bunch of miserable peasants who waste their lives away in a shitty world, but if the players don't want to play a Dung Collector and would prefer powergaming a bit and remain attached to their character, why shouldn't they?

You can play an RPG in the Warhammer World without necessarily being an useless fuck.

In my WFRP group we all started at a shitty level but we're slowly getting ever stronger. The system does support a steady character growth to superhuman levels stats, it's just hard to get there since the Warhammer world is so deadly.

>It also makes people value their characters, that could (and probably should) die at any moment.
What fun is to be had in changing characters every 3-4 sessions? PC deaths shouldn't be random and happen "at any moment". You've even got Fate Points for that.

>>50676444
>would prefer powergaming a bit and remain attached to their character, why shouldn't they
because there are systems and settings designed specifically for that? I mean, you can play a sci-fi strategy game with global politics and armies fighting in D&D 3.5 , but that doesn't mean you should.

>>50676460
Because they prefer the warhammer setting to others?

And I'm not talking about "walking demigods throwing mountains around"-powergaming, just a middle ground between playing a bunch of mouthbreathing mutants and a typical powergamer party.

"No, you can't be strong cause you're supposed to be miserable"
"No, you can't be attached to your character 'cause you're supposed to be dying at any moment" doesn't make the game fun if the players don't want to play a game like that.

And btw, 2e does make you start from the absolute bottom but you do have a chance to rise up and become someone important, so it's not like the system forces you to remain a sickly ratcatcher forever.

>>50676498
setting is as much a tool as the system is
there're settings for X and settings for Y

>if the players don't want to play a game like that
so why are they playing WFRP at all then?

>>50676525
>so why are they playing WFRP at all then?
We're not really all that experienced about RPGs but we do like the warhammer world. Going for the WFRP was the most logical choice.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with players choosing their starting career. We rolled for everything else though (stats and appearance mostly).

>>50676444
>would prefer powergaming a bit and remain attached to their character, why shouldn't they?

Because the system and the setting isn't made for it. You want to do something like that, reskin Exalted.

>You can play an RPG in the Warhammer World without necessarily being an useless fuck.
You're not meant to be a useless fuck. You're a regular fucking human being (or similar) that gets involved in shit, or involves yourself in shit.

The issue here is really that you seem to think that anything that isn't powergamed is somehow useless. That dung-collector just might make it, and work his way out of his humble beginnings. Or he might die from a bad bolt to the face.

>What fun is to be had in changing characters every 3-4 sessions? PC deaths shouldn't be random and happen "at any moment".
Nobody said it would be random, or that you'd have to change characters every 3-4 sessions. Stop strawmanning.

Dying at any moment, though? Perfectly justified. The Warhammer world is a cruel place, and if you try to be a hero or, god forbid, be fucking retarded, you'll end up paying for it, and you deserve it. The entire thing isn't meant to scale to your level.

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>>50676498
This is either some shitty trolling, or some hardcore fucking strawmanning.

>>50676581
>I honestly don't see anything wrong with players choosing their starting career.
There's nothing inherently *wrong* with it, it's just not much in the spirit of the game, and you'll tend to end up with very specific parties, with people mapping out their progressions and making assumptions as to the fate of their characters, expecting the world to somehow acquiesce, instead of progressing organically as individuals in a world that hates them.

Nothing worse than a player suddenly having his "concept" ruined because the evul GM won't help let progress straight into Knight unless he actually takes the considerable efforts needed to join a knightly order, or won't make those two magic items needed available somehow "because I need them to take my next advance into Master Wizard!" straight from Apprentice->Journeyman.

There are individual players that are experienced and familiar enough with the setting and the themes and the mechanics of the game to handle free picks, but especially for new players or those that do not seem to learn, forcing RAW character creation really helps drive home the point.

>>50676979
>you seem to think that anything that isn't powergamed is somehow useless.
Cannot punch a bloodthirster to death = useless!

>>50677011
By the book, you can change your career for ANY basic career for 200xp.

You are the one who chooses what your character is and will become, after all.
Forcing players to roll their characters only slows them down, unless you also force them to follow their randomized starting career forever, at which point anyone who didn't want to roll it in the first place will already have left the group.

Know who is a skank? A slaaneshi skink.

Don't suppose anyone knows of an online WHFRP game with a spot open for another player? I've been feeling the itch for a game and the /tg/ gamefinder is deader than ever.

>>50655359
i just realized
>there not being a Greenland populated by O&G
fucking what?
how did they miss that during the our-earth-map-copying pun-rampage that Warhammer world was made in?

>>50677799
Got skype? I'm trying to get my group together but one is busy and the other is MIA.

>>50674238
>RAW
It was one of the things I mandated when we started. People seem to have taken to it just because of how random it is, and most seem cool with rerolling characters

(For example, our Halfling was once a Dwarf Student who got arrested and put in jail and he roleplayed leaving the adventure after the rest of the group paid his bail because he was tired of the character. Rolled up a Halfling and became a valet.)

>>50677177
Book also says the GM should only allow this if it fits the narrative (for example, meeting an experienced member of the career who is willing to tutor you).

>>50678277
Sure, skype name is jackbartlet . I'm the one with the avatar of the man with the sten gun.

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>>50678749
The first game I played was RAW rolled and I rolled up pretty much exactly the example character from the core rule book, just with shittier stats. Even came from the same birthplace.

I retired up 1000 gold and a horse I stole from a grail knight.

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>>50677935
>O&G

What?

>>50677177
>By the book, you can change your career for ANY basic career for 200xp.

You still need the GM:s permission, and a lot of even basic careers can be hard to enter reliably unless you start as them.

That said, that's still 200xp and having to advance through the new basic career, and it changes the starting character drastically.

Your starting character being tired of his life as a Dung-Collector, saying "fuck it" and signing up with the city watch to be a Watchman is more than in line with the spirit of the game. Your character having to go through that change in his life is actually pretty much a perfect fit, and more than likely wouldn't be a problem at all, but in fact completely appropriate.

And you would never have acted like that if you could've just picked freely on creation. So it actually makes all the difference in the world. You'll also more than end up with a much more diverse character, instead of this linear progression where you end up just boosting your core.

>>50677177
>You are the one who chooses what your character is and will become, after all.

Not always. Circumstance can be one hell of a drug. Your character might have this idea of becoming the greatest warrior and general ever, or maybe he wants to become the wisest mage. Then reality kicks in and you spend fourteen months hunting snow-ferrets in Kislev.

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>>50678776
>Book also says the GM should only allow this if it fits the narrative (for example, meeting an experienced member of the career who is willing to tutor you).
Where? I know that you always need GM permission to enter a career, which is to preserve the narrative components to switching careers, but where exactly is this recommendation to the GM?

>>50673815
Ulthuan is the entire High Elf identity. You can't change it without changing them.

Like changing Athel Loren or the Dark Elf leadership.

>>50677517
Need pictures of that.

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Does anyone here use 1d4chan?

Which pages suck? Which pages are good? Which topics really need pages?

>>50679305
>Then reality kicks in and you spend fourteen months hunting snow-ferrets in Kislev.
Sounds like a lot of fun, and not railroady at all.

It's a game; players should have a chance to do what they want to do, as long as it's not extremely over the top.

>>50678776
This discussion makes no sense at all. It would turn something made to let everyone have fun into a childish fight. If all the players don't want to roll characters, why the hell should the DM insist on making them roll anyways?

>Hey DM I want to play a Shieldbreaker 'cause I like dwarves
No, I want my players to have random careers. I rolled Prostitute for you, so you're now a prostitute.
>Oh, okay... well, I also kinda like thief characters, I'll try to become a Master Thief!
No, I rolled prostitute for you and you will remain a prostitute unless I tell you that you can change careers.
>Come on, I'd just have to find a guy willing to teach me how to steal, it can't be that hard given how many criminals there are around.
Well too bad, 'cause I will make sure you won't meet any.
Now get ready to roleplay your prostitute and join your other party members i just rolled: the Dung Collector and the Rat Catcher.

>>50679895
To be fair, in the more steampunky parts of the Empire a Rat Catcher could be a lot of fun.

>>50679895
Honestly, given that the other party members are bottom feeders too I'd be down for this. Either the GM has a plan and is going somewhere with his rag tag poarty of misfits or it'll be apparent that the game will suck quickly so I can bow out.

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>>50679932
Rat Catchers are really interesting anyway. I found an good text on the subject a while ago: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17243/17243-h/17243-h.htm

But yeah, in a world with Dwarven sewers and Skaven, where the Pied Piper of Hamelin probably happened, Rat Catchers are fun to play.
I kind of wish they'd included one in Vermintide somewhere.

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So has anyone been following the development of Zweihander aka Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4th edition?

>>50679773
>Sounds like a lot of fun, and not railroady at all.
>implying someone would railroad you into hunting snow-ferrets in Kislev.
Why would someone do that, though?

>>50679895
>I rolled
>unless I tell you
>I will make sure you won't meet any
It's like you've only ever had the shittiest of GM:s. Why would you play with shitty GM:s?

>It would turn something made to let everyone have fun into a childish fight.
Considering you cannot help but to strawman like crazy and invent ridiculous scenarios where your GM is apparently insane, I think that practically any game with you would have to turn into a childish fight.

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>>50679673
>Ulthuan is the entire High Elf identity.
If Ulthuan's position on the map constitutes the entirety of the identity of the High Elves to you, I honestly don't know what to tell you. I can only really stare in disbelief and scoff a bit at how ridiculous that would be.

>You can't change it without changing them.
Obviously. Nobody said it would not change them. Of course it would. It would change them as described earlier, and in no major fashion.

>Like changing Athel Loren or the Dark Elf leadership.
Depends on the way you change them. Changing Morathi's mascara isn't the same thing like fucking killing her.

>>50679673
>Ulthuan is the entire High Elf identity. You can't change it without changing them.

Find one piece of fluff that would concretely change by simply moving Ulthuan slightly south-west.

>>50679895
Despite your attempts to create a strawman... this is actually kinda the point. You're supposed to be randos in a world that hates you.

>>50681478
Tell me about it. One of my players was a squire who wanted to be a knight. I told him it was hard as fuck, but if he was clever enough and figured out a way, whatever. Shadows Over Bogenhafen includes a tournament which the players are not meant to be able to participate in (they're probably too weak, anyway). They stole a knight's armor and put it on the squire so they could make some extra money to buy things in town. Now, did that make him a knight? No. But I let him meet some knights who could squire him if he wanted to.

>>50680816
He probably got eaten first. Only characters are a possibly vampire coachwoman, shadow wizard, protagonists, a ferryman, and a barman. Plus his random associates.

>>50682126
The direction the Winds of Magic blow. They all originate in the Warp Gates and end in the Vortex. Move the Vortex, suddenly Sylvania isn't getting the Death wind anymore for example.

>>50679895
Your example makes no sense.
First of the player rolls, not the gm.
Secondly, the rules stop no one going into a direction they have in mind like you claim.
The idea behind Warhammer RPG is that the players start with a bunch of characters that are not not satisfied with their profession and go out to adventure.
I am not against choosing your starting career but you basically get the same D&D group which isn't the point of the rule system.
The system doesn't punish you for not specialising your character early on. jack of all trades are actually pretty capable and the range of different careers is huge.
If someone really things it ruins his fun if his characters isn't optimised from the get go, he might stop playing right now, because this isn't a game he want to play.
>Rat Catcher
Rat catcher is one of the most prominent career in first and second career and choosen several times, fuck you too.
>Dung Collector
Dung Collector isn't even an obligatory career but optional to bone picker.

What's with all the autism for moving Ulthuan? What exaclty does it achieve other than making the continents line up?

>>50682136
>Tell me about it. One of my players was a squire who wanted to be a knight. I told him it was hard as fuck, but if he was clever enough and figured out a way, whatever. Shadows Over Bogenhafen includes a tournament which the players are not meant to be able to participate in (they're probably too weak, anyway). They stole a knight's armor and put it on the squire so they could make some extra money to buy things in town. Now, did that make him a knight? No. But I let him meet some knights who could squire him if he wanted to.

That's honestly pretty cool of you. I would have made it clear to the player that if he wanted to participate, he would get absolutely wrecked. And if he insisted, I would let him.

And he'd get absolutely fucking wrecked.

>>50676581
>I honestly don't see anything wrong with players choosing their starting career. We rolled for everything else though (stats and appearance mostly).

There's nothing wrong with it and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Even the book says it's no big deal, especially for more experienced players.

>>50682267
That's autistic. One arbitrary place is no different to any other arbitrary place. You move Ulthuan, you move the elves, and you obviously move the vortex too. You thought that'd just stay put? You might as well have shouted "but if you move Ulthuan, where'll all the elves go?! They'll drown!"

>>50682368
Fixing some minor narrative annoyances and adding some thematic potentials. See earlier in the thread and links to old thread.

>>50682540
I superduper warned them off taking part in the melee and told them to use the squire's basic horse for the joust. I had tocome up with rules on the fly for the joust, but he managed to roll his Ride skill and land some blows, even against enemies with better WS, so I let him overcome one enemy, advance one place, and then get fucking krumped by a Knight Panther (also allows me to introduce the Knight Panther, who will become super duper important at the end of the Enemy Within). He's moving to Ireland, but before we knew if it was permanent or not, I was going to have him get squired by the Knight Panther and return later on to our group when he comes home. (After all, some career transitiosn are supposed to take a while!)

>>50679895
>>50682351
There is also no prostitute career. He's just strawmanning like fuck.

>>50682368
It's position is just awkward,and odd in relation to the resr of the world.

>>50682860
That's not really an answer, as previous posts explained its relative isolation, such as the mists and the defensive role their navy plays in keeping outsiders from getting close. To me, and many others based on the previous posts, this change is largely superfluous.

>>50683002
In what way?

>>50683002
Not by name, but Camp Followers are described as doing that in addition to other jobs.

>>50683048
Both these are covered earlier.

>>50682860
You don't get the point.

All of the Winds, and the effect they have on the environment, is caused by the Vortex. Sylvania is a land of death because the Vortex pulls the Death wind from the south pole, which blows through Nehekhara and Sylvania then through the ocean where the Dreadfleet is until it hits Ulthuan and makes Yvresse and Cothique lands filled with ghosts.

Athel Loren exists as a verdant nightmare because the Life wind is drawn through it.

If you move the Vortex, you alter the entire Warhammer world.

COLLAPSE OF POLAR GATES WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

>>50683318
No, I understand what you mean. It's just that what you mean is retarded. Literally nothing would change in this regard. How autistic do you have to be to not understand that those are narrative functions and world mechanics, regardless of where you place the vortex?

>>50683487
You're having to alter a core part of the lore of the Warhammer world to make a cosmetic change possible though.

That's a very good reason not to do it.

It'd be like making Dwarfs reproduce via spores too or having Elves and Humans be relatives like Ogres and Halflings. Its a big change for little reason in a setting where most people want the big concepts and flavors added to, not changed.

>>50683662
>You're having to alter a core part of the lore of the Warhammer world to make a cosmetic change possible though.

Except, y'know, nobody is having to alter a core part of the world. At all. Not even the teensiest little bit. Literally zero impact on established fluff so far, while also fixing several oddities, and adding narrative potential in establishing the elves as relevant seperately from how they relate to humanity.

>>50683780
The impact is literally that all the Winds are thrown out of wack, changing the flavor for every area.

Heavens and Light will blow through Sylvania, Fire through the Empire, Death through Tilea, Shadow won't go through Naggaroth, Life makes the Drakwald into Athel Loren 2.0.

That alters the very lore of the entire game.

For almost no benefit.

>>50683662
We're still waiting for something concrete that would have to change in established fluff if you move Ulthuan slightly southwest.

The comparison to dwarfs reproducing by spores and elven-human relations is even more bogus than the ridiculous claim regarding Morathi and Athel Loren earlier. Complete nonsense.

>>50683856
>The impact is literally that all the Winds are thrown out of wack, changing the flavor for every area.

No.

How is it possible to be this autistic?

>>50683856
see
>>50683487

>>50683871
>>50683904
Samefag.

>>50683946
How would moving the direction of the Winds NOT totally change the areas they blow through?

When you move the destination without moving origin, the entire spiral moves.

>>50683976
Just change the path the winds take so they still land on the same spots. Done.

>>50683856
Your saying that moving Ulthuan in a fluff sense geographically would force you to also change all other fluff in the game, because the fluff relating to Ulthuan? Do you not realize how stupid you sound? top kek

>>50683976
>being this autistic
It's like I'm podracing.

>>50684071
>>50684073
>>50684097
Samefag.

Yes. When you change the destination point of something but not the origin, the entire path changes.

You're talking about handwaving the problem, creating a lore inconsistency and refusing to explain it. For the purpose of solving a complaint about headcanon not lining up with actual lore.

This makes me ask; are you a Games Workshop writer? Because this is Matt Ward level nonsense.

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>>50683856
>>50683976

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>>50684144
It's like you're asking to get BTFO

Stop being such an autist.

>>50684325
Nice mspaint edit of a screenshot.

>>50684154
Autism is arguing why your headcanon should be accepted by anonymous people online as true canon.

Seriously. That's an actual activity CWC has engaged in.

>>50684144
Not samefag. Thing is, the winds are arbitrary. It doesn't flow through Athel Loren the way it does because of some arcane interaction between math and geography, defined and written in stone by the fluff. It flows the way it does because the fluff says it fucking does, because that's what the writers want.

There is no fluff inconsistency at all, or you would've presented it by now instead of sperging out. There's no conflict at all. The winds will continue to flow the same way, to Ulthuan, from the poles and the warp, through the same places, coalescing in the same locations, no matter where you move Ulthuan, geographically.

If you don't understand the fact that these concepts are just narrative engines to facilitate the collective storytelling of the setting, you really are autistic. You don't happen to be the same regular autist that frequents these threads, are you, saying fire spells don't start fires and pulls nonsense fluff out of his ass, especially relating to the nature of chaos? Because top fucking kek if so.

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>>50684144
>refusing to explain it
But there is nothing to explain. What conflicts are there? Fucking none.

>>50684394
>as true canon
Nobody argued that, though. The concept was discussed. It was pretty cool. Then you showed up and said impossible, without providing any coherent argument as to why, other than
>my autism won't allow it!

>>50684499
If you map out where we know the Winds blow, it does in fact make a nice spiral towards Ulthuan.

If you move it, that spiral goes wonky.

>>50684550
Same as the benefits then.

>>50684602
Actually, I wasn't involved in last night or thos mornings argument against it.

So there's at least one other person against.

That aside, why are you lot so aggressive about it? This reminds me of the whole Orc females argument, or that guy who insisted that Vampires are just Daemons of Death.

>>50684926
>If you map out where we know the Winds blow, it does in fact make a nice spiral towards Ulthuan.

Prove it. I have never seen an official map like that. This is your chance to actually make a solid point and prove you're not just being autistic.

>>50685097
"If you map out".

Reading comprehension, you have a deficiency in it.

Also you sound like a broken record. Apparently every insult you have is "autustic".

>my autism demands that Ulthuan be placed slightly to the left
>you are autistic if you disagree

Wew, I'll just wait until the next thread

>>50685728
stop being such a fag if you can't prove your shit. let them map it elsewhere if you want to. elves are the fucking worst, anyway

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>>50687679
>>elves are the fucking worst

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>>50665576
>>50666516
Please make this happen.

>>50687746
fucking retards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHgW2z61_9k

>>50687937
I fucking love this video.

Squeaker trolling is the best.

>>50688665
hello

cyka blyat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYB4v8uThXc

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So, buying stuff for Mordheim and adding up with all I have accumulated through 15 years of getting WH stuff because of my WHFRP fanboyism, I accumulated a nice, rowdy bunch of figures, Skull Pass dwarfs army included.

I got old 7th ed rulebook, yet I think of choosing that edition, that will be most fun with:
-low model count
-no big, centepiece Altars of Anvils of Doom, cavlalary, cannons, rank and file.

What do you think about WHFB 3rd edition? Or should I go with forth, first, second, fifth?

>>50689221
I meant:
NO centerpiece big idiotism,

BUT

Cavalry, rank and file, odd monster here and there.

Sorry, it's still a bit early.

>>50689221
>>50689251
I am unsure about 3rd or 4th, as I started at the very end of 5th and just before 6th when I had to use the Ravening Hordes lists. 6th was always a good edition to play, as there wasn't one particular group that was completely overpowered. Cavalry might have had an edge, but it wasn't like 8th edition Magic.

>>50689292
Thanks, will pay it a visit.

On the curious side: any grogs that had contact with earliest editions here? It's over 30 years, but maybe...


Also>>50681368
I saw it on Strike to Stun, can you sell me on it?

>>50685728
I understood what you wrote. Now map it, faggot. Because your claim is BS.

>>50683111
But no one is expecting of the player of a camp follower to do that.
That's more the job of the Shallya priestess.

>>50690883
Thank god my character was a Shallyan *priest*.

>>50685728
>Apparently every insult you have is "autustic".
No, I only call people out on being autistic when they're being austistic, you autist.