Warhammer 40,000 general

FIRST FOR THE GREATFATHER NURGLE

>>50614238
fuck your image changes

First for Night Lords aren't too bad.

First for jet fuel can't melt rivet elbows

>>50614282
>>50614282
>>50614282

>>50614284
Fack. Phone too slow.

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Kabalite supplement WHEEEEEEEEEENNNNNN!!!!????

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>>50614238
Those proportions though.

>>50614238
Eeh, not diggin it , falls flat of 40k, AT style, not even internally consistent.

>>50614311
that's a really noice pic

post new general pictures

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>>50614363
>>50614348
>>50614311
>>50614283
>>50614238

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>>50614295
>making this big a deal over something that can be snipped off and greenstuffed over

>>50614378

but anon, that's not new

>>50614348
This version has been in rotation for a few weeks, now. Older version can be traced back to about this time last year, I think.

>>50614283
Shit birds can find the old general to easr. requiring filters is the best new filter.

>>50614382
>paying money to then snip something off and greenstuff over

I wasn't aware you wanted to pay for more work which then makes your luxury toys shit

All this hobby has is aesthetics and if you're paying money for shit aesthetics then you're dumber than a GW cuck schill.

FURTHERMORE the reason why I'm making a big deal of this isn't because I particularly care (it's really easy to not buy something) but it's more a matter of being RIGHT.

I said "power armour elbows don't have rivets" to which multiple (or possible same fagging) anon(s) (fuck you alpha legion) declared that they had indeed seen elbows with rivets.

When I demanded proof there was none but yet still I was assaulted with the assurance that they had indeed seen power armour elbows with rivets.

So instead I found pictures of power armour wielding heavy weapons which HOLY FUCKING SHIT don't have rivets.
TL;DR I play 40k so it's important that I am right and you are wrong

>>50614405
>Shit birds can find the old general to easr. requiring filters is the best new filter.

I'm glad that we need three filters btw /40kg/ isn't good enough, you need Warhammer 40,000 General and Warhammer 40k General

>>50614416
From now samefags in 40k generals shall be referred to a alphaposters

>>50614416
You're not the same guy who was complaining about Chaos winning in the BL book, are you?

>>50614438
40k has worked for years now, still does.

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>Orks have armywide Feel No Pain 6+, I3, and Rage

Thoughts?

>>50614416
>not doing some kitbashing and converting occasionally.

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Space hulk is now out of stock.

What did I do to deserve this?

>>50614464
>armywide Feel No Pain 6+
Yes
>I3
I4 on charge
>Rage
Why?
They don't need more attachs they need the ones they make to be better than guardsmen.

>>50614486
>What did I do to deserve this?
You sat with your thumbs up your ass.

>>50614464
They don't need 2A base plus 2CCW AND rage AND furious charge.

Instead of armywide FnP 6, which doesn't make sense given the context of what normally gets FnP 6, give them FnP 5+ only when charging, lasts until the end of the turn. Cybork and Dok Tools stack with other sources.

Leave the initiative alone. It's always been 2, always. At best grant them Hammer of Wrath.

>>50614486
You didn't buy it when you could.

>>50614493
But I'm poor. I didn't have money for Space Hulk right now.

Why must life be so hard? Why can't I afford all the little plastic men that I want? It's unfair.

>>50614464
Honestly I don't think Rage belongs there and I'd even be okay ditching the FnP but can Orks please have Str 4 so that Tau, Eldar and Humans can't armwrestle Orks to the ground

>>50614486
you didn't buy it impulsively and immediately the way GW desire

>>50614482
I'm all for kitbashing and converting, I have a full set of hobby files to minimize transition lines for smooth transitions between pieces

I play orks, too, and love to plasticard the shit out of pretty much anything. Hell my friend and I raided the dollarstore and made gorkamorka vehicles last year for a summer campaign

>>50614442
sadly I'm not, I wish I was though, he collected a lot of (You)s

>>50614447
40k as a filter doesn't even work for this general though

>>50614439
it'll never catch on

>>50614464

>orks getting 3 different legion rules

>tfw new SoB shitdex is coming out
>tfw it still won't include Artificer Celestians, Assault Repressors, or a useful flyer
Hold me, /tg/.

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>>50614525
>40k as a filter doesn't even work for this general though
Funny that...

>>50614538
Yes but Orks don't have the equipment which the Legions already have access too so a simple blank comparison as you're making isn't giving the full context.

That being said I don't think they should have rage.

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is there any decent literature that focuses on the Sisters of Battle?

only one I've so far read is pic related

>>50614464
Add S4, BS3 on Nob statline units and give Nobz power axes by default and you'd be set.

>>50614555
Daemonifuge IIRC

>>50614557
>bs3

no. absolutely not.

>>50614555
Casts a Hungry Shadow :^)

>>50614567
Shut the fuck up cunt.

>>50614464
I would never change the base stats of Orks, it's like changing the base stats of marines.

Orks being I2 is iconic, it's been that way for so long now that if you got rid of I2 they wouldn't be Orks anymore.

>>50614555
No. There is no decent literature on anyone but Space Marines

>>50614552
Why not give them actually decent equipment options then?
Just slapping more special rules on them is boring.

>>50614584
I would definitely give Orks Str 4. They're constantly described as muscular and physically powerful and then given the same Str as an Eldar and Tau.

>>50614579
Neck yourself, bitchboy.

>>50614567
Yes, absolutely yes. They've even had BS4 in the past. Gitz and Bigmeks should have BS3 at least, possibly upgrade options for Lootas and Blood Axe shootaboyz.

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>>50614551
GOOD PROOF ANON

>>50614584
>Orks being I2 is iconic, it's been that way for so long now that if you got rid of I2 they wouldn't be Orks anymore.

Changed at the start of 3rd ed. with the advent of the Andy Chambers/Brian Nelson Orks.

>>50614584
The difference is that it used to be circumvented by other rules that made it higher.

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>>50614363

>>50614625
>11

eleven
l
e
v
n

that's ten more than one and eleven times more heretical

>>50614615
Just give drop them to BS1 and give Shootas 7 attacks.

Is Flight of the Eisenstein any good?

>>50614643
So you want them to perform as well as they do in a typical overwatch?

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>>50614579
>>50614557
>bs 3
>3
>for generic nobs

It's like you don't even know the lore

>>50614637
>They Shall Not Fear
Nope. Fix it.

>>50614601
But I like the idea of Orks having blanket furious charge and s5 boyz is too much.

reduce boyz by a point
reduce 'evy armour cost by a point
'ere we go gives +1 inititive
give grots furious charge
give deff dreads 'ere we go
give killa kans and deff dreads furious charge
give burna boyz, lootas, flash gits and tank bustas 'evy armour base
flash gits get Bs3
Gitfinders allow you to fire one weapon a turn with increased Bs
Give vehicles the option to equip gitfinders

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How about Orks get Furious Charge and Painboyz become 0-3 as an Elite slot again? Add wargear to give characters Invulnverable saves, and make Looted Tanks 1-3 squadrons like vehicles in other codices?

I'm ok with giving boyz I3 or S4 too.

>>50614486
you haven't gone to a 3rd part store.
up here there are 3-4 stores that i know to still have 1-7 copies.
also Space hulk was a bit overrated.
atleast for my needs

>>50614657
You shouldn't want to charge Orks anyway.

>>50614584
This.

Any attempted fix to Boys which changes their statline is retarded and wrong

What they need is better special rules. Fix mob rule, fix Ere We Go.

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>>50614590
except Gaunts Ghosts, Deff Squadron, Eisenhorn, 14 hours, etc. lots of good non- marine books

>>50614555
Read Faith and fire. Forget the author, but its a really good SOB book.

>>50614691
make mob rule fearless again

>>50614658
in the old editions orks didn't have problems shooiting

>>50614658
Gitz and Blood Axe only then, who cares. Point is, they need at least BS3 to make any form of dakka upgrade (that isn't kombi flamers) useful.

>>50614689
>>50614657
Oh, I think I see what you were talking about now. My mistake. I meant give Shootas (the weapon) 7 shots to make up for the lowered BS, not to give Boyz more attacks.

>>50614681
>>50614676
These, plus a further +1 initiative on a waaagh.

>>50614701
40k 2ed was awful.

3ed up are the only ones that matters.

>>50614699
Make it so model count = leadership, allowed to go above ld10.
A 20 Ork mob is leadership 20, only fails leadership tests on a double 6.

>>50614721
>3e
no mbt for orks.
no clan rules.
cannot shoot
it was great just not for orks

Anons, I'm feeling depressed right now. Cheer me up by posting fluffy lists.

>>50614722

That's fucking stupid and breaks one of the fundamental rules of the game.

No stat ever goes above 10. Ever.

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>>50614567

>>50614722
Lets not because that only benefits boys and boys are fucking worthless.

Instead lets not be fucking retards about it and just give Nobs LD 8-9 and Warbosses 10.

Now its actually worth while to get the Nob in the group and keep him alive.

>A 20 Ork mob is leadership 20, only fails leadership tests on a double 6.

And the moronic "can't give something fairly decent without huge draw back" for Orks continues.

Orks need simple things:
Invuln save on HQs
Power weapons on Nobz
Higher leadership
And dedicated shooting units that aren't useless tier Lootas. (Flashgitz can do this job so fucking well but they're 6+ armour and far too expensive).

That is pretty much the crux of it.

>>50614567
Actually, I like the idea of giving them twin-linked on all their good weapons over increased BS.
It increases their overall hit rate but makes them much more accurate when firing snapshots.

>>50614669
>...and these dudes ain't scurred

>>50614722

So...fearless above 10 models?

>>50614464

>MORE special rules

No thanks. Just remove Overwatch and all of the Ignores Cover garbage.

>>50614773
Better than fearless against powers that target leadership, although....
>laugh of sorrows
>13 dead Orks

>>50614768
I'm a huge advocate for more twin-linked on all Orks weapons but the problem is it does make them nearly BS4.

Orks need something like re-roll all 1s and 2s that miss which both reflects their ungodly amount of fire power in the form of rerolls representing more bullets that did hit their mark by accident, but not the full re-roll on everything that our S3 Tau friends will be crying is unfair because not lore friendly.

>>50614791

removing ignore cover garbage can only be done if they reduce all the shit that gives cover.

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Sup guys.

With the latest Traitor Legions list out, I'm revamping my list for my Iron Warriors and could do with some advice on what I need to shore up on. I have 2 ideas on what I want to do. Pic related is my old CAD force.

IRON WARRIORS GRAND COMPANY
1464/2000

CHAOS WARBAND
Chaos Lord: Sigil of Corruption, Bike, Veteran of the Long Wars, Siegebreaker Mace - 135
5 Chaos Space Marines: Flamer, Veterans of the Long War, Rhino - 115
5 Chaos Space Marines: Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War, Rhino - 120
3 Terminators: Combi-Plasma/Chainfist, Combi-Plasma/Power Maul, Combi-Plasma/Power Maul Veterans of the Long War - 124
5 Bikers: 2 Meltaguns, Veteran of the Long Wars - 130
5 Havocs: 4 Autocannons Veterans of the Long War - 115

FIST OF THE GOD
Warpsmith: Aura of Dark Glory, Veterans of the Long War - 125
3 Vindicators - 360
Predator: Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 95
Predator: Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 95

STRONGHOLDS OF CHAOS
Aegis Defence Line - 50

Now, I'm not sure on what to really get next.

Option A is to include a Renegade Knight Paladin in, which I already have, and maybe a Sorcerer to turn the bike/chaos lord into a death star. Plus, the Heretek powers would be sweet with all dis armour.

The other option is to go full siege mode. Drop a predator, add in another 3 vindicators, get more havocs and maybe a sorcerer.

Option C is something I haven't thought up of yet to shore up on a weakness I have yet to discover.

My local meta barely runs flyers, hence the lack of flyer support.

Any ideas iron brahs?

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>>50614669
I don't make the art, anon. I just slap a general sticker on it. That's how we got the Duke Boys Taurox general, the adventure time general, the other one with the cute little 40k dudes, the real world 40k general, and I didn't even do anything to the rose of versaille general.

I just try to keep it an ensemble image or at least non-official art that otherwise shows strong merit. Official art is bad for generals.

It's pretty easy, actually.

>>50614676
But I don't like the idea of a hulking green gorilla alien described as being incredibly physically powerful only being as strong as an Eldar or Tau

>>50614751

My new Death Guard fluff 1k list:

Termi Chaos Lord w/ Dual Lightning Claws

5 Termis w/ Reaper Autocannon, Chainfist & Combi-Plas

10 CSM w/ Plasma Gun, Autocannon, extra CCW

10 CSM w/ Plasma Gun, Autocannon, extra CCW

5 Havocs w/ 4 Missile Launchers


It's called "Walk The Fuck Over And Shoot Bitches"

>>50614791
Overwatch is a fundamental part of the game and has been for quite a while, you can't remove it.

>>50614808
As another idea, I may upgrade the 2 5 man squads into 10 man squads with just autocannons if I have the spare points. I'm kinda lacking on bodies, I feel.

>>50614800
Why do they need to be Bs 4?

>>50614808

your table cloth goes well with your army.

>>50614693
I think he meant to say no decent non-Imperium literature. Which would still not make sense given the context but whatever

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What're the upcoming rules for the Emperor Children? I know it's combat drugs but I don't remember what else it is.

>>50614827
Your reading ability is shit.

>>50614808
Fortifications that fire barrage/ordanace would be a options.

>>50614813

4th played just fine without overwatch.

>>50614810
Maybe do some quality control first then.

>>50614810
I would put my dink in that eldar

>>50614813

They need to bring back consolidating into combat.

>>50614811
I'm pretty sure the lore says your bottom of the barrel lad is barely stronger than a human.
Boyz S3 -> 4 when worked up
Then they grow in to nobz who are stronger than humans at 4 -> 5(!) when worked up
Then warbosses 5 -> 6 on the charge, enough to tear through tank armour bear handed.

That's fluffy enough.

>>50614834
if only we hade some repository for rules, maybe like a wiki or something, but for /tg/...

>>50614860
>Barely managed to survive combat because S3, AP-, I2
>Down to 4 models
>Win combat
>Forced to consolidate into combat
>...e-e-ree we go...

What good would that do exactly to a foundation broken race like Orks?

>>50614837
Yeah well fuck you too buddy, enjoy your Bs 2.

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I'm thinking about doing Carcharodons list, what do you recommend?

>>50614770
Perfection.

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>>50614812
>Death Guard list
>no Plague Marines

disowned by nurgle

>>50614878
Alas

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>>50614854
"Quality control?" Anon, this is 4chan.
Besides. Fuck space marines.

>>50614859
>pic

>>50614896
painting them

>>50614875
Ok, lets go off your crap interpretation that a Tau and Human benches as much as an Ork.

If an Ork is in combat why isn't he worked up and fighting at S4 / like a fucking crazed fanatic?

>>50614896
Tyberios, 10 lightning claw terminators, Spartan Assault tank

>>50614489
>Why?
They are really fired up. :^)

>>50614904

Because MoN CSM are plague marines now, senpai.

T5, FnP, Fearless, Relentless.

Plus, if anything, it's far closer to how Death Guard actually work. Just overwhelming wave of dudes.

>>50614909
why is her sideboob black

>>50614887

I was referring to balancing out overwatch actually, but since you asked it prevents that unit from shooting the other boys,

>>50614920
Because, in his savage hubris, he expected to wipe them enemy out on the charge and is now just milling about aimlessly?

Tau should be s2, fuck Tau.

>>50614887

Consolidating into NEW combat, senpai.

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>>50614929
>i want to powergame

>>50614929
>>50614904
>>50614812
typical GW release "so everyone bought our finecast plague marines, how do we sell plastic CSM kits?"
"lets just make plague marines obsolete with this new book that they have to buy"

>>50614922
Looks fun

>>50614945
Which he will then lose.

>>50614875
I'm sorry what? An Ork Boyz is consistently described as stronger than a normal human.

For crying out loud most BL Fluff has Marines describe Orks as being physically strong. By their standards!

Where is this 'Orks are as strong as humans' in fluff coming from?

>>50614942
So all the lore that dictates a loosing Ork blown in half and literally crawling himself through the ground to try and chop and kill anything (someone you'd agree was clearly losing combat), comes across to you as someone down hearted and now not as eager to fight at full strength?

>>50614951

How the fuck is it powergaming? It fits the fluff perfectly and has nearly half of it's points invested in termis at 1k.

>>50614960

You're not forced to do it, anon. It's optional.

>>50614951
Plague marines? More like Plague memes, they're so shit.

Good thing no one has to take them now, just take normal chaos marines and get all their benefits!

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>>50614936
So that it blends into the background for that one pose. Cause capatin planet's figure is more slender than hers. It's an illusion, like painting cheekbones on a smooth-faced mini. But the opposite.

I'm guessing.

>>50614954

As if you can't just use your plague marine models as MoN CSM?

That's how most people made their plague marines, if they wanted plastic ones.

>>50614969
>loosing Ork blown in half and literally crawling himself through the ground to try and chop and kill anything
Sounds like strength 3 to me, I don't think an Ork boy would be strength 4 after being cut in half!

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>>50614830
Thanks man. table cloth OP
>>50614842
I'm not amazingly big on fortifications but my army seems to be geared towards bringing them. Any suggestions?

>>50614951
>If you don't pay 8ppm for regular close combat weapons with poison 4+ on footslogging infantry with 1 attack base you're powergaming
Faggot, what???

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>>50614979
If you want more points, go for it. You're not a real Death Guard player though. You've lost your integrity, but not your soul.

Nurgle wouldn't take it

>>50614954
I'm going to buy even MORE plague marine kits since i now need them to make into plague bikers, plague devastators, plague raptors and whatnot.

>>50614978
>>50614960
you're both describing a negative situation with no positive outcome

If he truly had nothing but 4 ork boyz it wouldn't matter if he consolidated and lost combat or was shot to death.

To evaluate this game state you need to consider the possibilities of every outcome.

It's possible that consolidating into 10 tactical marines would be fine since 11 attacks of 3's and 4's with 5's to save wouldn't wipe the 4 of them.

This denies a shooting attack and possibly wipes out some marines.

Of course them getting shot potentially wastes a shooting phase of another unit which could be more valuable.


In short having the option to consolidate into more close combat only adds more gameplay options for the Ork player in this scenario and can never be seen as a negative addition to his gameplan, instead it offers more player agency and decisions.

This is discounting 5 man squads running around which potentially could be consolidated into and 4 orks don't have a shit chance at killing 5 space marines.

TL;DR you both are shit at game theory and arguments

>>50615026

Again, the CSM squads have the Mark of Nurgle.

That's literally all plague marines are. Marines with the Mark of Nurgle.

>>50614989
but if she turns and points it ruins the entire illusion, it would've been 100x better if she had blue with lines

>>50615026
Yeah... I'm a real PLAGUE upon this hobby.
Sorry my attitudes are making you SICK.

>>50615032
this

>>50614765
Just give
>Boss Poles Stubborn,
>Mob Chart is simplified to if you fail a Ld Test you may take S4 AP- Hits equal to the difference
>All Orks fall back towards the nearest Friendly Ork unit (of same type) and after getting within coherency they automatically rally and merge (allowed to do all actions)
>0-3 Oddboyz (Wierdboy, Mek, Painboy) per CAD detachment. Takes no slot
>Loota, Burna, Nobz, Flashgitz get 'eavy Armour free
>Nobz (the unit) get: Big Choppas free, Power Weapons for 5 pts, Klaws for 10pts
>'ere We Go gives +1 I on the charge.

>>50614954
There's no meaningful distinction model wise between Plague Marines and Death Guard MoN CSM people can and will use whatever models they have. If this sells anything it will be Havocs.

>>50615014
>Orks that literally push pieces of metal through Space Marine armour like it was butter
>S3

>>50615032
No, you're shit.

Fuck you.

>>50615056
get out carlos

>>50615062
the resin plague marines have plague knives, you're not paying the 2 points or whatever for CCW on those 2 marines per squad

you cheating fuck your army isn't even wysiwyg

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>>50615068
>Orks that literally push pieces of metal through Space Marine armour like it was butter
Not from what I've seen on the table top!
>melee race
>I2
>S3

>>50615060
>Boss Poles Stubborn,
Still Ld 7, useless and doesn't address faults.

>Mob Chart is simplified to if you fail a Ld Test you may take S4 AP- Hits equal to the difference
Why S4? Orks are S3 or are they really fired up? but this is also the Chaos Daemon leadership rule and that wipes your own shit out so fast.

>0-3 Oddboyz (Wierdboy, Mek, Painboy) per CAD detachment. Takes no slot
I like a lot.

>tfw realize that if I give my tacs rhinos my chaplain would have nowhere to go.
>tfw no room in Elite slot for command squad either

quick guise, post the absolutely most FUN, non-human race

>>50615123
Orks. Shame they're shit on the TT.

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>>50615093
Good thing we're talking about the lore then aren't we?

Also don't fucking meme me with my own meme.

>>50614637

Ok that's pretty awesome. But it really should be know no fear.

>>50615089
Most people probably will kit all their CSM squads with CCW.

>WYSIWYG

>>50614875

>barely stronger than humans

Have you ever picked up an Ork model? Ever? Their arms are teice as thick as a marine's, including his power armour. They make catachans look like weedy lanklets.
In the lore an ork boy is supposed to be able to rip the arms off a man like he's a doll and wield axes so heavy they turn power armour into an eldar spandex save.
Where is this fluff that says 'lol, these green niggas literally designed to wage war by bashing shit to death are of a similar physique to space elves and Shooting Phase: The Faction'?
Produce it, please.

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>>50615123
Orks, they're the bestest.

I'm going to take them in for another game this weekend, wish me luck!

I claim this thread for the alpha legion. Anyone who posts below this line is not one of my sleeper agents.

___________________________

>>50615174
>Not

>>50614808
>>50615015

Possibly swap/add one of the fortifications that you could stand on (ie wall of martyrs something something) for fearless Havocs.

Would also add combi bolters to the vindicators for 5 pt "Weapon Destroyed does not auto ruin me" insurance.

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>>50615130

>expecting fluff to match crunch

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>>50615123

R A D I C A L

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gonna run some chosen in my alpha legion and never brought them before, what it a good loadout for chosen

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>>50615123
Rak'gols!

>>50615130
Just be glad we don't have movie marines.

I remember when 100 Minotaurs killed off a whole waggh.

>>50615149
lots don't because CSMs are mostly tax units who don't want to eat that many points

>>50615179
Definitely NOT, brother.

>>50615116
>Still Ld 7, useless and doesn't address faults.
58% chance to get 7 or under on 2d6, and with Stubborn, you'll always have at least that chance.

>Why S4? Orks are S3
Nobz are S4. He's beating them. Guess you can add if unit doesn't have a Character use S3 instead.

>Chaos Daemon leadership rule and that wipes your own shit out so fast.
I know, I'm a Daemon player. Except ours is unsaveable wounds. Plus new one would work for ANY Ld test, Fear, Psychic Shriek, etc.

I'd also probably double KFF's range and let Mek's take them

Cybork body gives 6++ or +1 to FNPs

Warbosses get +1W

During Waaaghs Orks get Deathrattle (base # of A's at I1 If Killed in CC like Wulfen)

>we can't remove overwatch, it's been part of the rules for so long!

yeah and rules NEVER CHANGE or EVOLVE

the fact is 40k is dominated by shooting, maybe taking away overwatch which is high variance and isn't tactical or strategic in any way would benefit the game

guys, im feeling a little under the wearther, let me know when the imperial agents stuff starts, ok? cheers

>>50615231
Psychic Shriek isn't a leadership test.

>>50615231
>Nobz are S4. He's beating them. Guess you can add if unit doesn't have a Character use S3 instead.
Deal, but only if Nobs are ld 8

>>50615032

I literally, unironically agree with you, anon. I am on your side.

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>>50614751

WB list, 1997/2000

Legion of the Damned

80 Cultists

Dark Apostle, VotLW, Scripts of Erebus

Lords of the Black Crusade

Sorcerer, ML3, VotLW, Sigil of Corruption, Spell Familiar, Malefic Tome

Favoured of Chaos

Daemon Prince, MoT, Power Armour, Wings, ML3, Spell Familiar

3x 5 Possessed, Chaos Rhino, Daemonic Possession, Dirge Caster

Terminator Annihilation Force

3x 3 Chaos Terminators, VotLW, Combi-bolters, Power Fists

Terminator Sorcerer, ML3, Spell Familiar, Power Fist, Combi-Bolter

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>>50614669
>>50615142

Ruststalkers or Infiltrators?

>>50615275
Infilstalkers

>>50615275
Infiltrators, much better and the screwy aura is badass, especially when you pop WS7 and have WS4 hit you on a 5.

>>50615292
>WS7 and have WS4 hit you on a 5.
Don't you have to double out for that?

>>50615241

I just don't get why people like overwatch. It's complicated, it slows down the game, and it punishes assaulting armies even more heavily than they already would be.

Stand & shoot made sense for Fantasy, but still had counterplay (close charges). 40k doesn't need overwatch. I expect it to go the way of the dodo in the expected 8th streamlining.

Random charge ranges also need to die in a fire.

>>50615315
Overwatch sounds like a good way to compensate for allowing people to charge out of reserves.

>>50615306
You need double + 1, but the Infiltrators have an aura that deducts 1 Initiative, WS, BS and Ld from any enemy models within 6".
So since you are WS7 and I4, you hit first and they hit you on 5s because (4-1)x2 +1 = 7

>>50615306
Double+1
So WS3s hit WS7 on 5+s
You need WS9 to make WS4 hit on 5+

>>50615315
Overwatch should be disabled if you shot in the previous shooting phase.

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can you put grav centurions in a drop pod?

>>50615223

Again: If they're using DG rules, they're plague marines without poisoned CCW.

They are no longer a tax.

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>>50615346
>WS10 hits WS1 on 3s

>>50615333

Charging out of reserves is pretty stupid too, as far as I'm concerned. Can them both.

>>50615223
>CSMs are mostly tax units
Not anymore. Certainly not for Death Guard.

>>50615348
that's even more clunky and slows the game down further (it's a bad rule)

>>50615223
Not anymore, Anon.

>>50615380

Overwatch should just be removed.

>>50615369

>Bloodthirsters
>WS10
>Melee Monster

>>50615241
Overwatch in its current incarnation is pretty damned recent.

>>50614808
I this and your dudes are pretty.

Knight seems like the best choice. As you say, more havocs would be legit too.

If you get bored and want to switch up your focus, you could always give your csm heavy weapons and camp them in larger fortifications like the big skyfire one, the one with the barrage missiles, or some bunkers/bastion. Build some tank traps and razor wire, make an iron cage for me to get stuck in.

>>50615380
What? How?

>>50615187
Combi-Bolters are a thing. I've got the aegis, but bastions are cheap and 10 marines in there will do a good job of never fucking budging.

I'm probably gonna take a Knight. I have the model and my meta isn't too competitive.

>>50615315
I'd rather Overwatch be a reaction.

In the shooting phase a unit can prepare to Overwatch. They get an OW token

In the opponent's turn anytime an enemy unit enters LOS of a unit with an OW token the player can spend the token to shoot at that unit at Full BS

Tokens expire at the end of the opponent's turn.

>>50615399

Yes, it came along in 6th when you could charge out of reserves

They got rid of one of those, now they should get rid of the other

>>50615427
You should ass MAN missiles

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>>50615398
Damn right they are.

>>50615353
You can't put anything in a drop pod.

>>50615353

Yes you can, though they can't take dedicated transports so they eat into Fast Attack slots.

>>50615427
>look mom, I posted it again!

>>50615412
That's 2nd ed. style Overwatch and was removed to speed up the game when they increased the standard army sizes. It's a great rule for a skirmish game like Necromunda, but pretty clunky for 40k.

>>50615412
Yeah, this is how I honestly expected Overwatch to work when I started 40k a few months ago, since I play a lot of XCOM.
Maybe make it at -1 BS, since otherwise you can just overwatch whenever a melee unit is in cover and then wait for them to move and remove the save, unless they move from not in LOS to LOS-blocking cover.

>>50615315
When I play my CSM army I'm always frustrated by over watch, but when I play IG I'm grateful for it. The only thing I would really charge is markerlights being used in over watch. I can't stand the "oh yeah, so these five squads are over watching on fours." malarkey that basically gives Tau an extra shooting phase.

>>50615369
>No honor in crushing unskilled opponents
>Khorne handicaps his chosen to make the fight "fair"

Imagine if Bloodthirsters hit on 2+ rerollable in CC.

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>>50615405
Thanks man. Knight's going in by the looks of it.

I don't know how legit of a tactic it is to buy loads of fortifications and tank traps and half half my army blast my enemy to pieces whilst I just swoop in whilst they're all weak and put them down where they stand, but it's fluffy as fuck.

I'll add to my list and see what I can get. Biggest question is if I should try and include a sorcerer or not. Probably not though.

>>50615407
now you have to track and remember whether or not a unit shot in the previous turn if they're allowed to overwatch or not

that sounds fine in theory but what if you're playing kill teams and now there's 40 models who you need to remember when they fired last

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Can someone post a close up of the gut with what looks like a mask? Can't tell if he's wearing a mask or is somehow wearing a MkVII helmet.

>>50615461
The whole point of tau is that they're so shit in the melee phase they NEED that extra shooting phase, you can't take it away from them.

>>50615450
>make it at -1 BS
Again 2nd. Ed. All these thinks existed in 40k before and were removed for good reasons.

7th ed. Is considered bloated by rules as it is. They aren't going to add complexity.

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>3h 25min for the legion midnight opening in my FLGS
Are any of you getting together with your mates to go through the book?

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>>50615467

So pretty much big flying Kharns

>>50615489
Got mine yesterday, so no.

>>50615485
>All these thinks existed in 40k before and were removed for good reasons.
Math is haaaard.

>>50615480
>taufags actually believe these

>>50615480
Tau existed before overwatch. They certainly don't NEED it. Especially not modern Tau.

>>50615470
Well the nice thing is you can always tag one in via the warband. It might be fun to try, but it depends on your local meta whether your psychic phase is fun or whether you are totally outpaced in warp charge and can't do anything.

>>50615485
7ed isn't bloated by the actual rules, it's bloated by everything and their mother having three special rules that you need to factor into account. Trimming that would help a lot.

>>50615461
>leaving 12 markerlight sources alive within 12" of charge target.

Honestly this is the least offensive thing about Tau.

>>50615506
Math is slow. It's a matter of tradeoffs.

>>50615513
I play casual lists which wouldn't work without overwatch.
Getting rid of it would only justify more riptides.

>>50615480
So not only should the Tau get two shooting phases (One turn to drive rhinos, one turn to disembark and stand around like ass hats) they should get a third before I can do anything to them? And that's if I get lucky and they don't just run away or jetpack to far away to even get to them. Do you see why Tau are hated? Why in the nine hells should I spend three turns removing models with nothing to show for it?

Having supporting fire is more than enough.

>>50615485
True, I don't really mind either way since my Mechanicus are decent but not great at overwatch without Cognis, and I don't have much of that in my list. Best it has ever done for me is killing one DC with Infiltrator flechettes so I won combat.

>>50615480

Yes, that SHOULD be how Tau work, but melee is gimped in this editon (apparently, newfag here so I can't remember when things were otherwise) and they have so many overwatch and mobility bonuses it isn't even much of a weakness.

Armies like Mech Guard and Admech are bad at melee, against Tau it's almost a trap, given that they can make you kill you own units charging their MCs that are actually not bad in a scrap.

>>50615540
that's a problem with inter-codex balance, not a problem with the core rules.

The core rules don't make your weak force playable, they make the tryhard WAAC list unbearable.

You're mixing up a lot of wrong reasoning

>>50615551
This is a problem with CSM not Tau. How they still have no access to reasonable assault vehicles is beyond me.

>>50615526
they need to stop with the million BS suppliments. have core rulebook, have codex for different factinos. i dont want a SM codex, 2 suppliments and 2 chapter codexs. just put chapter tactics back in like the last or before that edition had

>>50614808
>P9130100.png
Chrome/10
Would ride to Valhalla

>>50615540
This. Id hate to see the totally reasonable infantry and tank based players get shafted and thus the rise of more suitspam metagamers.

>>50615582
well, they have chapter tactics in the codex, but there are supplements which give you different bonuses and formations and shit

>>50615480

Tau didn't need two shooting phases to be viable in 4th.

>>50615611

They don't need it now either. If they're relying on Overwatch to kill something, they've fucked up.

>>50615526
What? No, it's definitely bloated by the core rules.

AoS takes the route of very, very simple core rules, special rules on EVERYTHING individually, and it works out well actually.

>>50615577
What would be a cool assault transport for csm, my man?

I always thought a sort of webway portal device that rips open holes in the warp for your guys to run out of Space Marine tm the game style would be sweet.

>>50615611
It is the whole point as anon says, it just didn't work out in the crunch. I'd be for making assault better before taking away counters to it.

>>50615595

If the infantry/tank players are going against other REASONABLE lists, and not a WAAC assaulting list, they do not need two shooting phases a round.

Heaven forbid that you have to actually maneuver your troops and prioritize targets wisely to avoid being charged.

>>50615635

So the whole point of a pre-overwatch army was that they needed overwatch?

Tau have units that are at least passable in melee for a reason. If they NEED overwatch to be viable against assault armies, which is an absurd claim, than that's a balance failure which can be easily remedied if overwatch is removed.

>>50615630
Rhino with assault ramp. Boom, done.

>>50615630
Easy way would to just put a daemonic maw/open top on [the front of] a rhino and call it an assault vehicle.

>>50615678
I has that, problem is it's in the rear.

>>50615635
All signs point to them making the game simpler. Overwatch is an easy target.

>>50615241
Overwatch should be a defensive alternative where you have to set the unit up to be able to react to assaulters or maybe even shoot at units moving through a certain area near them, but forego shooting in your own turn.
Then at least it will be a interesting tactical ability.

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>>50615524
Probably will be outplayed in the psychic phase. May try it sometime.
>>50615589
No shit, I always ask to be witnessed when I roll on the chaos boon table. Never had Spawnhood yet.

>>50615715
>What GW seems likely to do, is the correct thing to do.
Kek

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>>50615315
>and it punishes assaulting armies even more heavily than they already would be.
Waaaaah my army has a particular weakness we should just ditch it all together!

I'm a Tau player and you don't hear me bitching about the assault and psychic phases. I don't even get to use one of those phases. At all. It's just 100% disadvantage, unless I brought an overpriced deny the witch relic.

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>>50615473

>>50614238
Sup fa/tg/uys, I just got into tabletop after years of reading BL and various other fluff.
Any advice for starting up a CSM army? I'm going Nurgle, but I'm not sure how that'd stack up against my friends' armies at 1k pts. (Black Templars; Necrons)

>>50615721
I'd make it a feature of certain guns (ie, carbines but not rifles for tau), and have it replace the first round of melee for those who fire.

Losing shooting before hand would never be advisable afaik, and treating it like interceptor wouldn't be a trade off if they're going to be locked anyway.

>>50615678
>>50615683
They don't make cheap "assault vehicles". What you get instead are open topped vehicles, and those are generally reserved for low armor armies.

Not sure why CSM need them in a world of World Eater Raptors and Bikers.

>>50615728

Psychic phase is ridiculous too, anon. I'm right with you there. Bringing it back was a terrible mistake. A reversion to the 4th/5th model of powers seems likely.

>>50615728

Some of us give up a shooting phase and a psychic phase.

>>50615728
As another Tau player, we are also perfectly viable without those where as melee is gimped AF. Don't agree with their solutions exactly, but assault is fucked rn.

>>50615728
Are you daft? Anyone running Khornite marines should be complaining about the assault phase being shit just like you'd complain about the shooting phase if it was shit.

>>50615762
Death Guard just became really good. Pick up the Traitor Legion book that comes out tomorrow. Death Guard will be built around Bikers, and footslogging CSM and Havocs with their move and fire heavy weapons.

>>50615770
>Not sure why CSM need them in a world of World Eater Raptors and Bikers.

To give the hordes of non biked, non Raptors CSMs a purpose.

>>50615827
This ^.

>>50615776

5th was great for psychic. Pay for powers, use them in shooting phase. Worked seamlessly.

You know what REALLY needs to be nerfed?

Fucking bikes. They offer no real disadvantage over infantry, there's no trade-off at all.

A Marine on a bike twin-links his gun and gains HoW on the charge, gets more mobility, AND more toughness and the ability to jink, and loses what? The ability to take transports, which he no longer needs?

Offensive power, mobility, durability - these are basically the three attributes on which you can judge any unit for efficiency, and bikes improve all three of them. There has to be a disadvantage associated with them.

>>50615827
Any legion that gets fearless has plenty of use for them now without assault vehicles.

>>50615858

100%. I can't fathom why they ever changed it.

>Space hulk already sold out

they are gonna reprint that right? anyone knows how long that takes GW usually?

>>50615864

Bikes don't need a fundamental change. They should just be made more expensive if they're too good.

>>50615864
>Disadvantage
It's cost, they are just under-costed relative to other units.

>>50615864

Difficult terrain should automatically become dangerous terrain to bikes.

You can't ride a bike over the same sort of stuff you can walk over.

what is a good loadout for chosen

>>50615893
Jink is kinda bullshit. They could probably stand to loose that.

>>50615883
No, it was a one off.
They're already working on their next boxed game.

Rumours point to sigmar-mordeheim

>>50615871
Not enough fun random tables.
Sigh.

>>50615871
Because it wasn't actually that simple, you guys are misremembering.

Back then, psychic powers were all fucking over the place in the turn order. Ones which buffed you in assault were at the start of the assault phase, some of them were at the start of the shooting phase, some of them were at the start of the turn, and you had to remember for all the different powers which ones you rolled for when.

Also, there was no interactivity with powers. You either passed the test or you didn't, Deny the Witch didn't exist, and that is honestly fucking bullshit and we better not go back to that.

New psychic phase is clunky and has some issues but it's actually better than the old method.

>>50615864
If your going to change bikes, change them to +1 save to a max of 3+.
This nerfs eldar as well

>>50615858
>use them whenever they told you to.
FTFY, but overall I like that system. Especially buying powers. I'd like to build my Psykers as part of my list not pray they remember to be useful.

>>50615906

As many plasma guns as they can carry.

>>50615909

If 8th truly does simplify the game dramatically, that rule hasn't a prayer, so so don't worry.

>>50615899

difficult terrain is already dangerous terrain to bikes.

>>50615899
>Difficult terrain should automatically become dangerous terrain to bikes.
have you read the rules recently?

>>50615899
It does.

Personally what gets my goat is Bikes are straight up superior to Jump packs, which imo, are badass.

>>50615926

Plus it's inherently far more balanced. Want a giant fuck-you-I win power? Be prepared to pay for it.

Want a small sharpen-up boost or an extra shooting attack? Cheap little upgrade.

>>50615864

So much this! I hate that NOT taking bikes is just nerfing yourself, I want my marines on foot god damnit...

>>50615871
Probably because the wanted to make psychic powers more powerful and weird. The less reliable and more involved current system does let them do it, but it's clearly not worth the cost in rules complexity, game time, and waac faggotry.

It is fluffy though.

>>50615918

Remembering was really fucking easy because you had typically only 2 powers max, usually, and movement powers went in Movement phase, ranged attack powers in shooting phase, etc.

There's no need for Deny the Witch if powers aren't retardedly good.

>>50615893
Fucking wrong, see below.

>>50615896
Cost is not a disadvantage. If something with higher cost is better in every way, there's almost no reason to take the cheaper one - you might as well delete the cheaper entry and just include the better more expensive one. See - Flyrants. If they upped the points costs for Wings on Hive Tyrants, you think people would start taking walking ones? No, they'd suck it up and pay the higher points. It's not a matter of point efficiency.

There needs to be OPPORTUNITY cost and drawbacks to create unique roles for each unit type to fulfill. Infantry need to be able to do something that bikes CANNOT DO, PERIOD, other than "cost less points lol".

>>50615918
Imagine if all you had to do was pass a Ld10 test to cast invisibility.

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GW PLEASE UPDATE THE GUO, KEEPER AND LORD OF CHANGE.
THODE SHIT SCULPTSHAVE BEEN BURNING MY RETINA FOR EASILY 25 YEARS. ITS THE OLDEST FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT YOU HAVE LEFT. LOOK HOW MUCH PEOPLE BOUGHT THE FUCKING NEW BLOODTHIRSTER YOU MORONS.

ALSO UPDATE PIC FUCKING RELATED. IT EVEN HAVE A LAZY EYE. THAT JUST SHOW HOW MUCH TOU DONT GIVE A FUCKING FUCK

>>50615808
Some of us had all three phase and still do less than any other army does in any single one.

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>>50615924

>eldar get 3+ save from their bikes and scatter lasers

>Deldar get 5+save and a splinter rifle

>>50615985

If it's going back to 5th-ed style, you'd also have to pay a significant point cost to even access Invisibility.

>>50615956
>Jump packs, which imo, are badass.
Yep, I'd love to see them have more of a place.

>>50615985

This is a great argument for broken powers not existing, not for the current psychic phase.

An entire game phase that some armies cannot interact with significantly, if at all, is just a fucking terrible idea.

>>50615960
Imagine someone taking an Invisible Iron Arm guaranteed Daemon Prince. Although fluff wise it makes sense that someone shouldn't randomly be getting powers each game it does prevent only taking the absurdly good powers.

>>50616006
Play corsairs. Objectively fluffier and more powerful version of dark eldar. They even get cheaper Shadow Fields.

>>50615999

I am sorry ork player

t. KDK player

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>>50615970
Khan disapproves

>>50615980
>Infantry need to be able to do something that bikes CANNOT DO.

Like being able to have enough of them to durably defend objectives do to a lower cost per man?

>it's not about points efficiency
Sure, mate.

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>>50616006

But you get better if you don't die

>>50616041

they just sit on my shelf now, chaos is back

>>50616038

If powers go back to having a balanced points cost, where's the problem? You get what you pay for.

>>50616038
Just up the cost to high heaven.

>>50616038

There were good powers in 5th ed that required 50pts to buy. So yeah, you could guarantee Iron Arm...if you want to pay through the nose for it.

Also, they could stand to make Perils far more punishing. I remember when it just removed models from play.

>>50615998
There's a rumor for a plastic LoC in Jan. along with blue/brimstone horror boxes and a Tzeentch AoS release.

>>50616063

laughingants.jpg

>>50616046

The Khan can go stay in the webway

>>50616082

>No Plastic GUO

why live

>>50616053
>Like being able to have enough of them to durably defend objectives do to a lower cost per man?
That's not an innate quality of Infantry which other unit types cannot approximate through being more durable despite less numerous.

Now saying "ONLY infantry can capture objectives and bikes cannot hold objectives ever", that would be an actual role and force intelligent decisions.

Go learn some game design.

>>50616038
>Imagine someone taking an Invisible Iron Arm guaranteed Daemon Prince

So he'd be like... 500+ points. Super scary and super expensive.

>>50616093
Once upon a time you needed Troops choices to hold objectives.

>>50616090
>why live
Because Nurgle is feeding off your despair

>>50616093
>Objective Secured
This should have never left infantry only, and rarely does.

>Go learn game design
kek mate, quality bants.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-IE/Deredeo-Dreadnought-with-Arachnus-Heavy-Lascannon-Battery

Any word on the rules for this? The pdf hasn't been updated.

>>50616090

Its crazy, because he was the first of that generation of greater daemons.

>>50616093
>ONLY infantry can capture objectives

Oh look, a newfag.

>>50616150
2 S9 shot

>>50616136
I'm aware, it should go back to that.

>>50616168
What the fuck are you on about, I'm talking about a hypothetical that differs from the current set-up.

>>50616150
>>50616172

30k rules here
>>50611981

Honest question.
Why cant a Warpsmith/Dark Apostle take a Bike/Jump pack/Daemonic mount?

>>50615864

They need to make bikes not play well at all with difficult terrain. No more of this "skilled rider = ignores terrain!" nonsense for starters.

>>50616150
Range : 48"
STR : 10
AP : 2

Heavy 2, Exoshock

Exoshock : If this weapon successfully scores a penetrating hit, roll a d6. On the roll of a 4+ a second automatic penetrating hit is inflicted on the same target with no cover saves allowed.

>>50616149
There's a big difference between not having ObSec, and not being able to hold Objectives whatsoever.

>>50616180
>I have a problem with bikes.
>Actually it's a problem with infantry.
>Actually I've a problem with formations.

>>50616180
>Once upon a time you needed Troops choices to hold objectives.

That doesn't solve anything since eldar bikes are troops and you can make space marine bikes troops.

>>50616191
No fun allowed.

>>50616191

We can't have nice things until loyalist scum have it, and say we can

>>50616191
Because the CSM codex is old and shitty and the Traitor Legions book is trying to fuck with as little as possible so it can forward compatible with a new book.

>>50615998
lazy eye and "badness" of catachans is mostly paintjob though

>>50616191
Because the model is monopose and having options for mounts and jetpacks means that another company can make those options. And that is money GW is not getting so they don't let anyone have fun.

>>50616204
>missing the underlying point that causes all three of those things to be factors

>>50616205
Which is why my first suggestion was only INFANTRY can hold objectives. Shouldn't have second-guessed myself by agreeing with the Troops thing, that should be inconsequential.

>>50616205
They don't need to be at all. Especially in the world of formations and detachments.

>>50616258
>missing points

Doesn't help that your original post was way of base.

So now that World Eaters have Fearless, Furious Charge, and Adamantine Will what's the point of Bezerkers?

>>50616286
Explain why you think that, I'm open to different ideas.

>>50616253
Please find a stock GW catachan that's painted so good it compensates for the sculpt.

No Harker and no third party models.

>>50616297
Every single World Eater is a Berzerker, so nothing, in a WE army.

>>50616297
WS 5 is kind of nice I guess. Not worth it though.

>>50616297

That's the point.

Death Guard's CSM are basically Plague Marines too.

Drink it in, cheap and effective CSM squads.

>>50616297
The same as Plague Marines for Death Guard who now have Fearless, Feel No Pain and Relentless.

Nothing, they're an overcosted legacy unit that will need to wait to be fixed in the next Chaos Codex. Just use the models to represent regular CSM of the appropriate Legion.

>>50616297
AP4 and Ws5.. maybe.. now.. I'm sorry, they're as bad a Plague marines now.

At least EC still have monopoly on sonics.
>TFW no sonic havoks...

>>50616346

>4 blastmaster in a 5 man squad

man, that would be awesome, but make some people cry.

>>50616342
>>50616297

Berzerkers and Plague Marines are not for WE and DG armies, they are elite choices for non-Cult Legions.

Cult Legions are all made up of them, so it doesn't make sense to have them.

>>50616346
>>TFW no sonic havoks...
Don't particularly need em when you've got blastmasters in every NM squad, shred and splitfire and bonus strength everywhere, and psychic powers to deal with vehicles.

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2MB, 250x188px

>>50616323
>>50616346
>>50616322
>>50616317
I just bought the Maelstrom of Gore... What am I supposed to do with 48 Bezerkers now?!