/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General

>>50573587
Witch bolt

first for bards

>>50573635
>first for _____
What is this meme

>>50573587
Enthrall.

What's the best Warlock Patron?

>>50573587
>Abi-Dalzim’s horrid wilting
Seriously. It's an 8th level spell for 10d8 damage in a 30ft cube, that doesn't affect undead or constructs. An 8th level spell!

>>50573515
Yeah i figured it'd be a while. I only had three removed and they're seemingly healing fast but I didn't wanna rush anything. Upside is 3 days off work doing nothing but watching the office and doing nerd shit. I guess.

>>50573587
As a fighter/wiz multiclass in my main campaign I feel like most of the 1st level spells are great. But 2nd level.. ehh.. cloud of daggers, nystuls magic aura, rope trick, enlarge/reduce, and some others feel pretty subpar. Could honestly see some as 1st lvl spells.

>>50573713
Fiend Queen Succubus

>>50573634
Nigga what witch bolt is amazing

>>50573634
I still really don't get the point of Witch Bolt. Poison Spray is about the same and can't just be walked away from, and it doesn't cost a spell slot. Fire Bolt is a bit weaker, but is longer range and doesn't cost a spell slot.

If it at least added modifier to the damage or reduced their speed, I could see it working.

>>50573736
>witch bolt is amazing
kek

>>50573736
No, it slightly increases your DPR compared to cantrips, until level 5, at the cost of concentration, movement breaking it, and a spell slot. And it can miss the initial cast.

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Quick! List reasons why Chainlocks are better than tomelocks!

>>50573764
The familiar is better than one from Find Familiar, and Chains of Carceri is fucking fantastic.

>>50573764
>le ebin invisible help action imp meme
That's literally it.

>>50573764
Depends. If it's pure Warlock levels, the Chainlock has more versatility/utility.

If multiclassing is allowed, it isn't. Sorlock just pew pews you until you stop moving.

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>Exclusive access to spell points, combined with sorcery point pool
>Can learn new spells by seeing them performed then succeeding on DC (10 + spell level - castings seen) arcana check and time/money as wizard scribing
Does this fix sorcerer?

>>50573811
>Can learn new spells by seeing them performed then succeeding on DC (10 + spell level - castings seen) arcana check and time/money as wizard scribing
I'd rather not have that, a few more spells granted, and a slight reduction on total spell slots for wizards, combined with the spell/sorc point total seems good to me.

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>>50573811

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>>50573780
>implying that being able to deliver touch spells like bestow curse and vampiric touch at long range via a helper that is virtually undetectable until the spell is used is overrated.

Sure the help action shit is meme-ish, but it's still the better pact boon.

>>50573811
Eh, the first one works, but rather than the second, let them regain 1/2 level Sorcery points on a short rest once per day.

And then, take the Spell Mastery Feature away from Wizards and then give it to Sorcerers, along with making some spells that are Sorcerer Exclusive.

>>50573811
Sorcerer seems pretty fine to me, it just needs an extra archetype or two.

>>50573754
>>50573746
So long as you cast it on someone who can't easily leave range (cramped quarters, allies blocking, etc.), you get a lot of damage from 1 spell slot instead of spending a lot on magic missile or chromatic orb or whatever

>>50573811
>sorcerers
>needing fixing

>>50573852
Over the course of a minute, during which time you might be interrupted or have something else go wrong.

If there's a target surrounded by your allies in cramped quarters and nobody else is attacking you so AoE isn't a factor, just use cantrips. It'll probably be better to Chill Touch them so they can't regain hitpoints or just accepting missing while spamming Poison Spray or something.

>>50573714
>Homebrew spell
Well, there's your problem.

>>50573852
Except you don't.
Let's assume, for the sake of sanity, to say we want JUST damage.
A single cast of magic missile is 3d4+3, with subsequent turns being 1d10 firebolts/eldritch blasts.
A single cast of witch bolt is 1d12, followed by 1d12 on following turns.
That means that you are doing, on average, 1 damage more per turn than fire bolt, and with MM doing an average of 4 more, you need 5 turns of witch bolt to equal MM+firebolt. This assumes everything hits, BUT witch bolt entirely revolves around a SINGLE attack roll. A single point of failure means that the Witch Bolt has a straight up chance of doing 0 damage, while the bulk of MM+Cantrip is guaranteed to hit.

>>50573918
>Homebrew spell
EEPC is official content, the only homebrew rule would be excluding it.

>>50573918
It's in the Elemental Evil book, you fucking wad.

>>50573870
Well, yes. They're considered the weakest casters.

>>50573945
weakest! casters, but not the (weakest casters) which are either one of the non-full casters, or warlocks.

>>50573945
I think that's more just due to how strong Wizards are in comparison, being able to do much of what Sorcerers can better.

Seriously, Wizards are even better when it comes to having more spells per day, since they can get some back on a short rest and get to turn some low level spells into cantrips at high levels.

>>50573852
Lot of damage? Most fights last around 3 to 5 rounds at most. When you reach level 5, Witch Bolt becomes useless. Even before level 5, it's already a subpar option to use a spell slot on. Besides, it takes your concentration, and you'll usually have much better spells to concentrate on.

>>50573918
>Homebrew
Uh, no? It's from the Elemental Evil companion, an official add-on from WotC.

>>50573634
>>50573744
Which bolt is a way for necromancers to heal their flesh golems.

Question to any DMs. Lets say a PC has 3 levels in rogue and the assassin archetype, and also through whatever means (feat/multiclass/hax) had cast Charm Person on a target. If the rogue then attacks the NPC, is the NPC considered surprised? I guess he doesn't need to be a rogue to do that but it's mostly for the assassinate feature

Witch bolt was great.. When I did it wrong.

In my game my Sorcerer used Witchbolt fairly often when faced with tough "Boss" level monsters, the plan being our Cleric would hit a guiding bolt, or our Fighter a distracting strike to open up me for advantage, then I'd hit the big target with a level 4 witch bolt, dealing 4d12+4 damage, then repeating that every turn I can hold concentration, occasionally flicking out quickened spells so I can spend my action shocking.

Then we found out that secondary-hits from witch bolt only deal the 1d12, regardless of what spell slot was used, and further more elemental affinity wouldn't even apply to make it 1d12+4.

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What's better, component pouch or foci?
[Spoiler]And why is it component pouch?[/spoiler]

>>50574014
Charm Person?

Yeah, probably. They consider you friendly, so it would likely be a surprise.

>>50573714
To be honest, make it a necrotic version of Incendiary Cloud and it'd be a perfectly decent spell. It'd make more sense for it to be like a "spreading plague/famine" anyways thematically and mechanically for its fucking 8th level slot rather than just one piddly instance of damage.

>>50574048
>[Spoiler]

>>50574048
Depends. If you're doing starting gold then coponent pouch.

If you do the pre-built kits at chargen get the most expensive focus you are entitled to.

>>50574014
They would on the condition that you told them to cover there eyes and hum loudly because you have a surprise for them, and there was no one else around to sufficiently warn them.

Otherwise they would sufficiently see you drawing your weapon and moving towards them.

>>50574014
I can't really see that it would be automatic, if you saw a friend take a swing at you, you wouldn't 100% of the time be surprised in terms of inactivity.
I'd definitely allow him a stealth without the NPC being suspicious of him, or a deception check with advantage from charm person to stop him from being able to react.

>>50574057
After the spell wears off, do they know you charmed them?

>>50574073
Component pouch is 25gp.
Foci are much less.

>>50574047
Well. Now I just looked it up. And I apologize to everyone who corrected me earlier in the thread. I thought spell slot would do both instances of the d12s. Witch bolt is no longer as good as I thought it was lol

>>50574092
It literally says that in the spell description. So yeah, they do.

>>50574092
They do, you need to be a 14th level enchantment school wizard to remove that (Assuming they fail the secondary mind-wipe save).

>>50573969
Sorcerers can use sorcery points to get roughly as many extra spells per day as the wizard. They also generally have better archetype features; compare 13+Dex AC and unlimited flight with a small boost in hit points and being able to briefly take control of undead.

I won't deny that wizards are better than sorcerers (the spellbook alone is massive), just that it's not as much of a blowout as it's often portrayed.

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>>50574092
>>50574101

>>50574107
>Sorcerers can use sorcery points to get roughly as many extra spells per day as the wizard.

At the cost of not using metamagic at all

>>50573852
Okay, assuming everything else being even and stuff has a 50/50 shot at hitting...

Witch bolt will do 65 damage on average, assuming it lasts the full duration and it hits. That's around 33 damage on average, but that's a bit misleading since it's very all or nothing, and it requires a minute to do that.

10 rounds worth of poison spray will also do around 33 damage on average, but has more consistency in doing so because it isn't all decided in a single shot.

Being very generous and assuming one free hit on behalf of Witch Bolt, you're talking 30 extra damage...over the course of a minute. That's roughly 5 extra points of damage per round. Of course, this all assumes that there's a single target that has over 60 health for Witch Bolt to get its full value. If it doesn't get the full value, then the burst potential or AoE of anything else would be better.

>>50574107
They don't get unlimited flight, they get limited flight, using those sorcery points that you said they need to use on spells to keep up with wizard.

13+Dex is Mage armour, they have mage armour, a free level 1 spell a day that every spellcaster has if possible. Metamagic is a nice feature... But they have to spend their sorcery points on spells to keep up with Wizards.

>>50574125
Wizards typically have nothing else they can do with Arcane Recovery. Sorcerers have the option of Metamagic or extra spells or a combination of the two.

And it's not a one-way transfer. So if you wanna claim that Metamagic is much more valuable than those few extra spells, then they can sacrifice another spell slot or two (moreso at higher levels) to get more of it.

>>50574092
Yes but at that point hopefully they're dead from your auto critical damage and sneak attack dice or close to it.

>>50574082
>>50574074
I mean, unsheathing a sword is considered part of movement in the PHB, so I figured it would be one fluid motion where they have their backs turned or mid sentence or whatever the rogue could attack the "friend". Since he has no reason to suspect the rogue would attack him I thought it would be the rogue declaring his attack, then initiatives rolled, and the "friend" would be surprised because of it. And if the assassinate autocrit doesn't kill them they go into normal combat from there

>>50574107
See >>50574125

I initially found the ability to get more spellslots by using sorcery points a neat way to give Sorcerers more spells without needing to alter their table, but then they went and ruined it by giving the Wizard so many easy ways of getting spells back.

I see Sorcerers needing to burn all these resources to match a Wizard as a problem. A Wizard should be struggling to match a Sorcerer's spells per day, not the other way around.

Let the Wizard have their advantages be some of the weirder esoteric utility spells and the ability to swap their loadout more readily.

>>50574181
That's not how surprise works.

Surprise gives you an extra round of combat.

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>>50574136
>Witch bolt will do 65 damage on average, assuming it lasts the full duration and it hits. >That's around 33 damage on average

>>50574181
That is entirely not how surprise works.

>>50574193
Page 189, PHB. Initiatives are all rolled then surprise is determined. A surprised creature can't take actions or move on its first turn and can't take a reaction until the turn ends.

>>50574199
>65 damage assuming it hits
>assuming it hits

What's the average of 65 and 0?

>>50574214
Surprised is also a condition that needs something to trigger it. Being friends with someone, which charm person DOESN'T EVEN DO, since friendly acquaintance=/=friend, does not mean that drawing a weapon on them means they are unable to react.

>>50574224

Getting them to turn around, however, probably would.

>>50574181
Having knowledge that the person is there is enough to negate surprise, if the charmed person is totally and completely unaware or heavily enthralled and distracted by something and are neither looking at you or listening even passively to what is around them, then you might be able to get it.

Otherwise they get the "Hey, wait what are you doing with that knife?!" moment.

>>50574241
Which, to the extent that they are entirely unwitting and unaware, would require a check, which charm person gives you advantage on anyway. Stop trying to cheese the spell, and use it as it blatantly says it can be.

>>50574204
See the post below you. That's exactly how surprise works. The rogue declares he is going to attack the NPC that's charmed so combat is beginning. The charmed NPC would have surprise (in this example), then everyone rolls initiatives and take turns in order, with the NPC doing nothing because he's surprised.

>>50574250
>The charmed NPC would have surprise
Except he doesn't because nothing is triggering said condition. It doesn't just magically occur here, any more than it magically occurs when the NPC your talking to decides to shove a sword into you.

>>50574241
Assuming they suddenly become deaf and unaware of your presence, then yes.

>>50574249
>>50574243
>>50574224
"Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter." Still page 189. The charmed target would notice the rogue. But wouldn't notice a THREAT. And that's the important distinction. You wouldn't naturally assume random acquaintances are gonna try to hurt you irl and neither would the target. So when the rogue attacks him, he's surprised. He didn't notice a threat.

>>50574249

I'm not the one trying to cheese it I was just commenting that that would probably qualify for a surprise round. Assassin is more interesting when you don't cheese magic like suggestion to use it.

>>50574285
>So when the rogue attacks him, he's surprised. He didn't notice a threat.
Attacks don't stop time, and you could potentially hear, see, or feel a threat from a seeming friendly acquaintance. Being sorta friendly with someone in no way makes you a helpless baby when communicating, if someone takes a swing at you in a bar, you may well notice him doing so and react in time. You also might not, initiative, or they might be able to keep you from noticing, stealth or deception. And guess what, you have ADVANTAGE to said deception check, because of the charmed condition. Use the tools it gives you.

Just fucking point over their shoulder while they're charmed and say 'jesus christ a tiger' and then stab them. Whatever your DM says counts as surprise is what works.

>>50574339
Deception check, with advantage, DC dependent on likelihood of tiger in area, from dc5 to dc30 depending on environment.
>in a tiger pen at a zoo? dc5
>flying through the sky with a fly spell? dc30

>>50573848
Yeah sorcerer compared to most other classes is pretty balanced, but because wizard is powerful and the easiest class to compare sorcerer to there's a lot of whining.

>>50574367
So really, the answer is once again to nerf Wizards.

>>50574350
"Jesus christ, a pedantic ass!"
"Jesus, a goblin!"
"Jesus Marie, there's a gelatinous cube behind you!"
"Holy shit Marcus, a giant spider!"
"Sweet Pelor, the lawyers are back!"
"Forsooth! Thine mother doth tread the cobbles behind thee!"

>>50573713
Flavor wise, Fae. Mechanically, either the star knowledge patron or fiend patron for bag of rats abuse.

Does the target of a warlocks hex spell know he/she has been hexed until the damage is dealt? Spell description doesn't give me much.

>>50574402
Unless it's actually happening, its gonna need a deception check to be enough of a distraction to allow for the surprised condition. So depending on the manner the PC wants to try it, it could be very simple or not. It is NOT, however, 100% automatic due to charm person, any more than the barkeep you've been chatting with is allowed to get surprise on you when shoots you with his crossbow for free.
If you are lying, a persons passive insight might be high enough to also see through you, resulting in a failure. If you try to do it stealthily, they might have high enough perception.

>>50574423
My ruling as the best dm in this thread is that the target feels crappy, and if their passive arcana or insight checks equal or exceed the warlocks spell save dc, they identify the crappy feelings as magical

>>50574463
Makes sense.

>>50574423
Unless a spell does damage, is visible/audible/tactile, or specifically states that the target becomes aware of it, the target does not know that a spell has been placed on it.

>>50574423
I'd rule that they would feel a bit off, since standard activities would include unrolled, but still present, "ability check"-esque situations.
Strength? They feel a tad weak, their loads a bit heavier.
Dex? They keep dropping mundane items
Con? Got a bit of a cough, or stomach ache
Int? Can't seem to recall things, words always on the tip of the tongue
Wis? Bit absentminded, things keep slipping their mind, CRAP you just ran into a pool and stepped in that puddle
Cha? Your in a bad mood, its like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed and everyone notices

>>50574479
Addendum: If the target sees you cast the spell and has a good enough arcana skill, then they would know.

>>50574285
Characters do not exist in stasis, you do not freeze time while you are deciding what to do. The second you say "I attack him." the character in question goes "Hey, buddy you've been looking at me funny, why are you reaching for that knife, oh dude!" and is not suprised.

There is a difference between "Et Tu, Brutus" suprise and the actual condition suprise which is more "Huh, why is there blood on my shirt, why does my chest hurt.."

>>50574443
sure

>>50574491
That is a good point, but could just be a "bad luck" or "rough day" kinda thing that they just accept so they wouldn't immediately leap to magic unless like >>50574495 said they saw you cast it

If you guys didn't notice, the PHB says that the DM decides who's surprised based on the situation.

A lot of this is so dependent on context that it's useless to try and argue such small details.

>>50574479
>Guild of mages escalate have a secret contest where they attempt to curse the local barkeep with as many curses, spells, enchantments and hexes as possible until he realizes something is wrong, kind of like a magical version of pop-up-pirate.

>>50574578
I think the anti surprise guy is trying to tell him that DMs shouldn't hand out surprise as a role-playing reward, for balance purposes. Or something. It's hard to tell what his position is because it seems so contrary to the rules and general principles of God dming.

Any good Paladin/Warlock builds?

>>50573918
>Not knowing about the elemental evil companion

It's mentioned every second thread at least, read nigga, read.

Sorcerer should use spell point as default!

>>50574644
Go far enough into paladin for smite and far enough into warlock to get spells. Then level whichever however much you want. Easy.

>>50574644
Paladin 3, warlock 17.

Bladelock for damage (use polearm), chain lock for utility and advantage.

Level paladin first to get armor proficiency.

>>50574264
I don't know if a random NPC I thought was my friend tried to stab me out of the blue, I'd be pretty surprised.

>>50574590
the effect being that being charged with so many spells literally made his beer buzz, and now he is a wealthy man for his famous buzzing beer
"bargo's buzzing beer, it gives a ring to your voice!"

>>50573811
Coppy the spell mastery feature from wizards and have sorcerer get it earlyer (lvl 12ish).
Half spell points recovered on short rest.

Beat a DC 14 on an arcana check to learn a new spell after seeing it cast within the past 12 hours.
Spend one hour doing so.
Spells learned this way don't count toward the spells known table.

>>50574689
Surprised, as a person/character? Yes.
Surprised, as in entirely unable to react for a round? Probably not, unless he really got the drop on you somehow, like being entirely unable to notice it (stealth) or he was really convincing at keeping you off guard (deception).

>>50574663
This, I've got a Sorcerer in one of my games using Spell-points as default. I threw them a bone and combined them with Sorcery points for one slightly larger pool of resources.

It's versatile, it's fun, its interesting.

>>50574378
Is it just particular archetypes or wizard general features?

>>50574703
Yeah I was being facetious, honestly if they did it right I'd allow it with a stealth or deception check.

>>50574663
>>50574705
Is it this? >>50573842

>>50574703
>Hey check your pack for [thing]
>Guy takes off his pack and rummages through it, crouched, with his back to you

It's not hard.

>>50574855
>We hid the keys to a BRAND NEW HORSE in your backpack!

>>50574855
>I don't have a [thing]
>I'm busy, you check it *tosses bag to PC*
>Sure. *hears you draw weapon and approaching*
>What pack?
>Why do you need a [thing]?
>Look man, I'm not loaning you another [thing] until you pay me for the last one!
That, by itself, is not enough. It can ENTIRELY be part of your attempt, but just that would do nothing.

>>50574899
Dude, relax. These are examples for someone who wanted to know how to get surprise on an NPC that he charmed.

You are going on a weird tangent now about some hypothetical situation that none of us are privy to.

>>50574899
Alright then

>Oh my god look at the carvings at the base of this tree what do they mean?
>Hey mind fetching me some water from the stream while I consult the map?
>There are small tracks here unlike nothing I've ever seen. You take a look
>Look in the grass over there where I'm pointing, just to the side of where you're standing and closer to you than me. Something twinkled

Or simply
>Hey close your eyes and turn around. I'll show you something neat.

He's charmed, for all intents and purposes you're a friendly acquaintance. As long as things are relatively peaceful he'd comply.

>>50574989
I'm not trying to argue you can't utilize Charm Person to get the drop on someone, just that it is neither mind control, nor guaranteed to work. It's a tool, not the answer.

>>50575025
Nobody's arguing against that. You're bringing up more convoluted arguments for no point.

I missed it, what was the consensus on the fighter UA shit?

>>50575046
There were those that did, as part of this discussion. Read on up the thread.

How are Illusion Wizards? I'm thinking of playing one in an upcoming campaign for the ability to change illusions after they are cast.

>>50575063
knight and samurai boring and uninspired, though with a couple decent things. The ranged options aren't better at ranged combat than options we already have (and they're also poorly done)

>>50575089
It requires a bit of working with the DM to know what they will and will not be ok with, but generally they are really strong. Wizards are strong anyway, and illusionists probably have the best school specific options.

>>50575063
I think Samurai is pretty decent. The rest are just kinda meh.

>>50575063
I like the flavor of Arcane Archer, but it needs tuning.
Knight seems boring to me, but might appeal to a certain 4e crowd from what i understand.
Samurai is interesting.
Sharpshooter is pretty much exclusively for non-feat games, and even then i'd sooner play an Arcane Archer or Battlemaster.

>>50575063
Arcane Archer is okay. Only 2 cool trick per short rest kinda suck though.

Knight is great. Only people who is allergic to 4e hate it.

Samurai is pretty bad. Sharpshooter is meh.

>>50575063
Arcane Archer is a decent ranged fighter with tricks.

Knight is the best tank in the game.

Samurai is kind of boring but mechanically fine.

Sharpshooter is the same as above, but has insane nova potential at range.

>>50575063
The consensus on it was "muh battlemaster" as always, but I'll give you a slightly more detailed synopsis of the opinions in the past few threads.

People like Arcane Archer thematically, but complained that you only get 2 magic arrows per short rest until level 15.

People like Knight mechanically, but find it underwhelming thematically, and of course complained that it didn't have as many fiddly bits as BM.

Samurai got a more mixed reaction, no doubt in part because of the name, but also because aside from the 3rd level feature it lacked mechanical depth. At the very least, it caught enough attention that people have already done a 3 iteration revamp of it.

People are okay with sharpshooter. Not ver the moon about it, but have come to the general notion that if you're in a game without feats, or you want to play a ranged fighter but takes some sub-optimal feats for the build, this is definitely your go to.

>>50575150
Knight would be a neat kit in my opinion except it's cumbersome as fuck and focuses on cavalry stuff which doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Implacable mark is alright if not strangely written, Hold the Line is meh.

>Defender's Blade
Tell me this couldn't be written a little more clearly:
>At 18th level, you respond to danger with extraordinary vigilance. You can use your reaction for an opportunity attack even if you have already expended your reaction this round, but not if you have already used your reaction this turn.

Seriously. That's awkward.

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>>50575116
Samurai is literally the worst!
We get two ranged Archetypes, sure, that's nice.
The Knight, though not entirely justified, still is mechanically decent.

Samurai has dick!
Why make a fucking Samurai class when you could have easily made a Samurai with a battle master, Barbarian or several other options already in game.

>>50575196
Yeah, knight has this dumb divide between cavalry shit and defending. Coulda easily focused on one, the other, or just split them up.

>>50575210
The cavalry shit on knight is just ribbons, anon.

>>50575201
>The worst
It's lvl 3 feature is pretty sweet, and that combos well with Rapid Strike. It gets a free saving throw proficiency which is always nice for a mundane class, and its capstone is rad as fuck.

It's literally a viable pick.

>>50575196
>>50575210
>>50575219
And not to mentioned riding a mount increase your Implacable mark's area. Get an Elephant and enlarge it for fun.

>>50575220
Anon, you don't seem to understand. This is /5eg/. If it isn't a variant human Battlemaster with PAM and GWM, it's shit. SHIT!

>>50575220
>>50575201
Whoops, nevermind about the combo between the lvl 3 and the rapid strike, bonus actions. I'm retarded. It's still decent - I wouldn't call being able to go into a pseudo-rage literal dick.

>>50575244
Your shitposting is worse than the Arcane Archer.

>>50573587
Can a monk make an unarmed attack with their off hand?

the monk in my group fights completely unarmed and I really can't think of a reason not to allow it

>>50575201
Samurai is fine, it just lacks depth and could use some more flavor. It's above the champion and the PDK, at least before champion's capstone kicks in.

You get six rounds of free advantage and resistance to BPS per short rest. Throw even one of those rounds on an action surge with GWM or sharpshooter (it supports either) and your damage output is ridiculous.

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>>50575196

It's also a bit of extra bookkeeping that I don't think is wholly necessary. Why can't it just be like you get one extra reaction per turn, but the extra can only be used for AoOs?

>>50575251
Unarmed strikes are attacking with any part of your body that's not a weapon. It can include punches, elbows, kicks, knees, headbutts, and potentially even bites.

Monks get an unarmed strike as a bonus action for free, or two with flurry of blows if they spend a ki point.

"Off hand"/two-weapon fighting never comes into play with them.

>>50575260
Ah I see I see, thanks

>>50575260
>Monk that attacks solely by slamming their ass into the enemy
Thanks for the hot tip, famalam.

>>50575258
Honestly, reaction's are not -that- strong. I wouldn't be averse to:

>You may take one reaction during each creature's turn, even if you have already used your reaction.

>>50575296
R.Mika, in MY d&d?

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How is a Deep Stalker Conclave ranger 3 with Sharpshooter supposed to be remotely fair?

That first turn alpha strike is some serious bullshit.

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>>50575306

That would be pretty awesome. I guess the main balance worry would be what else a player could conceivably build themselves to do with their reactions beside attack...but what else can one really do with it? Go rogue deep enough to get that half damage thing?

>>50575317

It's more likely than you think.

>>50574855
>As you step towards him, he turns around curiously.
>As you step towards him, he hears your footsteps coming close.
>As you step towards him, he hears the sound of your blade being drawn.
>As you step towards him, he is still fully aware of your presence because he is not fucking incapacitated.

You do not get surprise rounds from saying "Look out a distraction!" you get them for catching them entirely unaware of your presence.

>>50575354
That's what I was thinking. You could do some interesting tactical things with it. It fits the idea of a reactionary, heavily-clad knight. There's not much that really uses reactions.

I guess the worst thing would be a broken sentinel build or something.

It's good that the UAs are only playtest and you can verdict via the surveys, isn't it?

>>50575355
No, the PHB says you get a surprise round when your DM determines that you surprise someone.

>>50575385
I like it. And honestly? As a GM, I think most of the UA stuff is underpowered. I have no problem whatsoever with players using it. There are very, VERY few things in the UA's that end up overshadowing core options.

>>50575329
Not as bad as thief getting an entire extra turn.

>>50575420
Not at level 3.

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>>50575385
It's great. DMs and players get free content regularly, everyone can give their feedback on the future of the system, and WotC can craft stuff more closely to what the public wants compared to their old "throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks" method.

>samurai just gets advantage for free
What is even the point of reckless attack anymore

>>50575388
It also says unless you are hidden from a creature, they are aware of your presence and to roll initiative normally.

>>50575440
It's only 6 turns a short rest.

>>50575426
Eh, well, if you want to combine the two to get two extra attacks at level 6, you'll have missed out on an extra attack feature, I suppose, so it balances out.

>>50575470
It also says that any character that doesn't notice a threat is surprised.

So if the DM says the guy doesn't notice the threat, then guess what, he's surprised.

But again, that's up to the DM.

>>50575519
The DM can also rocks fall, at any given point for no reason.

>>50575388
>>50575355
>>50574855
The intended rules are that if one person is being stealthy they roll stealth against the target's passive perception and if they win the check they get surprise.

That's literally it, no need to overcomplicate it.

>>50575549
REEEEEEEE


NO


NO YOU HAVE TO BEAT THEM IN DECEPTION AND STEALTH CHECKS AND THEY HAVE TO BE LITERALLY DEAF AND BLIND BEFORE YOU CAN AMBUSH THEM

REEEEEEEE

>>50575564
Nigger, he literally said what i've been arguing the entire time, a stealth check, but i would allow deception.

>>50575564
I mean, your DM might give you bonuses to stealth if you can deceieve them but if you draw the blade out right in front of them that's a pretty hefty -25 to stealth right there or a ridiculously hard deception check 'I am not pulling out a blade, I am completely unarmed'.

>>50575564
Somebodies butthurt.

>>50575602
Stealth is sneaking. Deception checks should be made if player is hiding under a barrel and trying to sneak around that way.

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>>50575644

I'm doing an all kobold party soon and I don't think it fits for an adventuring band of kobolds to all have begging for their lives be an ability they have. Besides they're going to be basically all getting advantage on attacks constantly with their gang up abilities. What's a good ability to replace it?

>>50575729
removing sunlight sensitivity

>>50575740
Why do dwarves not get sunlight sensitivity? That always bothered me. They live underground as much as any of the others.

>>50575745
Forges are bright as shit.

>>50575745
Because they are meant to be playable

>>50575749
I wanna see this logic taken to its extreme. Human blacksmiths, working constantly with a forge, with the addition of sunlight, get Darkness Sensitivity. They're basically blind at night.

>>50575745
Because being Born Evil catalyzes with darkness to create sunlight sensitivity. Your race's actual time spent underground doesn't have anything to do with it.

>>50575773
>They're basically blind at night
So like actual humans?

>>50575793
No humans see poorly at night. These would actually not be able to leave the house.

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I'm making a "holy knight" type character, but the party already has a Paladin and a Cleric. I've also played a Paladin and a Cleric before so I don't really want to do it again.

My GM allows UA of all sorts. The character is an Aasimar; I was thinking that I'd do a favored soul maybe? Or perhaps an Undying Light warlock, having made a pact with a powerful Celestial being?

I want him to be somewhat martial, however. I was thinking maybe starting Fighter for all those good ass proficiencies and stuff? Maybe a Fighter-Undying Light?

what would you guys do with this basic idea? We're starting at level 3, and the campaign is guaranteed to go to 10 at the least. From what my GM has said, we'll be getting to level 5 really fast, then from there on the leveling will go to a normal pace.

>>50575729
Advantage on any Cha check to beg for their lives.

>>50575798
Good idea.
>darkness sensitivity
>without the aid of some ability or magic, humans effectively suffer from the 'blindness' condition when in areas of darkness.

Anyone ever done character creation in a more creative, restrictive way? I once gave my players the quiz from the Ultima series, splitting the questions between the players and assigning ability score increases to the answers. They started with 9 in each stat, and could get up to 15 based on what they answered, and then could choose from 3 classes based on their best stats. They ended up liking those characters more than any others they've played so far, so I was thinking about doing something similar in the future.

I tried converting Traveler character generation for use in 5e, too, but it didn't work as well and I had hoped.

>>50575729
remove the sunlight sensitivity, remove the advantage. ez

>>50575867
>Protector Aasimar Fighter (UA Knight) 3, Acolyte Background.

>>50575894
3d6 roll in order in a brutal campaign where even if someone rolls bad/good they might die and have to reroll eventually.

It's not too different from just assigning stats based on a quiz because I'd feel bad for the non-wizards/barbarianPAMpaladinGWMfighters/not-chacasters that get lots of int/str/cha.

>>50575894
>>50575918
... But, to answer the question, I haven't done 3d6 in order for 5e yet.

Did it sometime way back. It was quite a bit of fun, the worst character that was rolled ended up being the highest level character in the end, a cleric.

>>50575867
There was an anon here the other day who play a Favored Soul Sorcerer with 16 14 16 8 10 10.

He play variant human (for greatsword) and buff himself with Haste. He then do a total of 4 attack (attack,extra attack,haste, quicken GFB).

Also cast shield,absorb energy,subtle counterspell. Seem like a pretty cool concept.

>>50575914
I do want some magic though, the capacity to do something at range and have some buff/AoE options

>>50575918
>>50575925
Funny, I did 3d6 in order on a "roll your character" thread on /tg/, didn't get a single +2, ended up making a dwarven cleric. It's nice to still be marginally useful with bad stats.

>>50573852
You do realise witch bolt is 1d12 damage per round regardless of which level you cast it at, right?

>>50575880
>without the aid of some ability or magic, humans effectively suffer from the 'blindness' condition when in areas of darkness.
??? Isn't that already how it is? Anyone who cannot see in heavily obscured areas is effectively blinded.

>>50575740
>>50575899

What's with you people and removing sunlight sensitivity? It's really flavorful. And having a party that only has sunlight sensitivity removes the annoying aspect of it that it fucks over some members and not others. A party of kobolds will naturally play a nocturnal game because of it.

>>50575930
It certainly works.

The only real problem is it doesn't have anything awfully special about it.
They've forsaken their casting ability for things other than no-spellcastingmodifierneeding spells for

Not sure what you'd need subtle counterspell for unless your DM is really up your arse with counterspell mages so that you want to subtley counterspell so that nobody can counterspell your counterspell.
... Or being a dick hiding at the side of a warlock ritual counterspelling their summons without them knowing what's going on. Fun, but kinda situational. Counterspell itself is still great though.

So, let's see...
Compared to the 'bladelock' PAM style builds, I might be tempted to say it's actually even better, actually. You don't have to multiclass or sacrifice important class features (invocations) and you still get the usual casting progression which is better than a warlock's.

You're still not really fulfilling the 'beefy front-liner' role or 'reliable full caster' role at all, but you're doing it better than bladelock, I'd say.

Don't forget they can twin up haste.

Would still rather have a paladin.

>>50575931
Dip Undying Light Warlock after level 5 then.

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>>50575976

>>50576018
I was actually thinking of 1 fighter 2 undying light lock

for my fighting style, I'd take close quarters shooter.

+1 to hit, ignore cover within 30ft, no disadvantage in close range with EBlast is pretty fucking sweet.

Just not sure what I'd do past that. No reason to take a fighter archetype if I'm just going to be blasting, so start fighter at 1 and do one more level of fighter max.

>>50576051
>no reason to take a fighter archetype if I'm just going to be blasting
I wouldn't say that.

You don't need any warlock levels beyond 2 to level up eldritch blasts.
Samurai is a good example. Bonus action to give yourself advantage on all attack rolls.

You can

>>50576067
>>50576051
You can also take shillelagh (charisma) and make a charisma-based fighter. Say, a EK that uses shillelagh'd quarterstaff + eldritch blast.

>>50576007
> Not having a caster party's counterspell > counterspell > counterspell war with your DM

>>50574644
Polearm master tomelock with sheilgah.
SAD as fuck.
Wear full plate and use a quarter staff.

>>50575729
Remove the -2 to strength as well as the begging. Maybe give them something related to trap building.

>>50576081
>that one sorcerer subtle counterspells
>DM: "The Generic Enemy Mage #25 coun-"
>"I subtle counterspelled. You cannot see me counterspelling and thus counterspell my counterspell. I win."
>alternatively, subtle power word: kill

To fix witch bolt

Higher spell slots increase ongoing damage not just initial

>>50575880
hows this sound as a reward for a level 10 party.

>Name pending
Magic weapon +2, Longsword.
Must be attuned, against undead, fey, and fiend grants additional d8 radiant damage.

Was also thinking of giving it:
At the cost of 1d4/6 health, the weapon gains +d8 lightning damage until the end of encounter.

>>50575063
Arcane archer is fine but needs to scale the uses of their feature better.

Knight is fine but I'd like to scale their reaction attacks with either a Str/Dex/Con mod or their prof bonus.

Samurai is just broken with its lvl 3 feature but otherwise bland and non-thematic.

Sharpshooter is fine.

>>50575894
>I once gave my players the quiz from the Ultima series, splitting the questions between the players and assigning ability score increases to the answers.
I'm intrigued. Could you point me to that quiz or post how you assigned the increases to each question?

>>50574014
No, Surprise is granted when your Dex Stealth is higher than their Wis Perception

>>50576133
Anon... I don't know how to tell you this, but why don't you give them a Sun Blade? It's somewhat similar to your idea.

>>50576172
well on the one hand thats good. on the other tho... how upsetting.

Dunno 'bout the rest of /5eg/, but I'm pretty excited to try out the Knight and Samurai archetypes.

New DM, and I have a player who took scribe (alchemist) as his background and just bought an artisans tools: alchemy kit.

Is there some guide as to what he can/might want to do? what ingredients he will need, and risks involved anywhere?

>>50576199
I'm currently playing a variant human fighter with the Spear Mastery feat from the UA.

Samurai sounds like it might be a rather interesting choice.

>>50576133
+6.5 (+11 against undead/fiend/fey) damage to every hit would be wonderful for a fighter, especially consdering a fighter could soon get up to 4 attacks at level 11 and thus coudl apply this four times.

However, the fact it's a longsword balances this out because longswords are pretty shite.


But if you had to ask me, I wouldn't be saying 'how does this sound' because that sounds like you're just gifting magic items to the party, which is not what 5e is built around.

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>>50576209
the crafting rules are really bad in 5e, he really cant do too much of note

check out the feats UA, alchemist feat in there. if your player wants to make potions and shit steer him towards taking that at his next ASI. remember he only gets an ASI or a Feat not both

>>50576226
the bonus action use of spear mastery feat and the bonus action use of weeaboo knight are a bad mix

The eventual Warlord class/archetype will give legendary actions or pseudo legendary actions as seen by volos npc

Something like spending martial dice to take actions between turns

>>50576240
soo... reactions

>>50576238
Yeah, that is a sad downside.

I'd end up having, what, 4 bonus action options?

- Spear +5ft range
- Spear receive charge
- Samurai FIGHTER SPIRIT
- Samurai rapid strike

I guess it's back to champion for me.

>>50576260
>I guess it's back to champion for me.

gag

why not battlemaster

>>50576265
I want those sweet, sweet critical hits.

So, I'm looking to make a competent gish for an upcoming campaign to fit the concept of a lightly armored spellsword.
Looking things over I'm a little fuzzy on what classes to use. Bladesinger stands out but I don't know if I should pair it with something else or what spells would be needed to make the best of fighting in melee.
Has anyone else uses the bladesinger as melee combatant or has an idea of how to build a proper gish?

>>50576282
why? so you can roll 2d8 rather than 1d8? Wow got get em tiger

meanwhile with bmaster you could attack from fifteen fuckin feet away or trip a guy with your spear receive charge thing while also adding, guess what, 1d8 to those attacks

>>50576296
dont care i crit more often

>>50576282
>GWM fighter (if you're doing damage, why would you be anything else?)

>2d6(7)+15 damage
>wow, you just rolled a crit, do 4d6(14)+15 damage instead!
>oh, wait, it's fucking nothing. I guess you get a bonus attack though if you haven't already qualified for it

>samurai
>give self advantage
>oh, look, your chances of critting just became almost as much as a champion

>>50576309
dont care, i want to play champion and crit more often

>>50576309
What if... I know this may sound weird but what if... a champion gets advantage?

>>50576324
With crits on 19-20, that means you'd get 19% of the time, with advantage. It's like 9.75% chance of rolling a 20, and a 9.25% chance of rolling a 19.

>>50576305
>>50576317
A glimpse into this anon's future

>geez, the Wizard can just cast Fireball and do 8d6 to everything in a twenty foot radius? Well, I crit on a 19...
>wow, the Paladin just crit and smited, the smite alone dealt 6d8! I crit more though, so i'm better.
>jeez, the Assassin just got a surprise attack and did an additional 2d8+6d6... he sure does that alot... but I crit more and when I crit, I do 2d8 too!
>Man, this improved critical is really helping me out! the expanded crit range means I'm guaranteed to hit on a 19! Which really comes in handy when fighting... enemies with 25+ ac....

>>50576342
My party consisters of a rogue who plans on going arcane trickster and a shadow monk.

I think I'll be fine as a champion fighter, dude.

>>50576324
Then go you, I guess. Advantage is supposed to be situational more than anything, and you're not supposed to have it all the time.
However, if you have a wolf barbarian or you have level nine spells and someone uses foresight on you, you'd get almost permanently then.
Depends on your team, really.

What if you get 19% chance of crit? Well, you get to do 33% more damage more often and you're even more likely to trigger the bonus attack but it's still neither gauranteed nor can you get it multiple times. That's about it.

>>50576317
But a samurai can get 39/400 chance of crit as opposed to champion's 40/400 chance of crit for 3 rounds every short rest, along with other benefits.

>>50576367
There's no sense in arguing with this guy, he's pretty dense

>>50576428
hurr dont care, imma crit more

At least he's doing damage, I'm running a generally unarmed Barbarian

Any good multiclass for my sun monk?

Are Wizard-Necromancers any good?

>>50576548
Bard

>>50576558
Which bard? Also CHA is my dump stat

>>50576557
Broken if they can stack up.

>>50576289
Bladelock. Bladelock is best gish ever.
Maybe throw in a level of fighter for armour and early level survivability

>>50576589
>maybe

>>50576596
I only say maybe because getting to level 5 in warlock is pretty vital.

>>50576289
Bladesinger is a wizard who can tangle in melee, not a gish.

If I wasn't afraid of being called out for being a Munchkin, I'd do something like Undying Light warlock 1 | Paladin 2 | Sorc X

After looking through WotC adventure...

Are you suppose to just throw a bunch of easy encounter at players in 5e? Tyranny of dragon recommend you to be level 15 at the end, but it keep throwing CR11 or lower encounter at you.

>>50576589
Why not start 2 paladin for smite, then go into bladelock?

>>50576651
Partly because getting to the multiattack level well after the rest of the party is a huge setback. He did say a "competent" gish. Besides, by what I've read of RAW, pact magic can't be used for smites as far as I know.

>>50576616
Bladesinger is the casty gish, EK is the fighty gish, Lore Bard is the singing gish, Bladelock is the glass gish, paladin is the smitey gish, war cleric is the holy gish, wot4e is the punchy gish, Arcane Trickster is the sneaky gish, ranger is the Drizzt gish
Did i miss any?

>>50576651
Why not go 3 levels warlock and then go paladin?

>>50576692
Cause then you don't get heavy armor prof.

>>50576589
If you want a full-caster gish, favoured soul sorcerer will probably do it better.

>>50576704
Then start with a level in paladin (why wouldn't you, for 10 hp?) and then get 3 levels in warlock.
Even if the first level of paladin kinda sucks.

Or, heck, 6 levels paladin, 3 levels warlock, 5 more levels paladin.

>>50576679
>"Can Paladins use Warlock spell slots as a way to utilize Smite?"

>Yes.
Sage advice, crawford.
>>50576692
Only because most people seem to prefer arcane magic for gish builds.
Plus, proficiencies are better starting paladin.

>>50576726
Again, why wouldn't you get smite before switching?

>>50576728
The question here is 'Why multiclass into paladin for smite when you could just be a paladin and be all-around more useful to your team?'

>>50576734
Because you're not going full warlock, because that would be dumb.

I regret making my Dragon Sorcerer blue dragon lineage.

>>50573587
So which does magical bowman better? The new UA archetype or standard Eldritch Knight?

>>50576680
Wot4E Monk is the sucky gish?

Anyone taking the initiate feat is or being a high elf is the mini-gish?

Not sure why but diluting the meaning of "gish" to such a degree as to be useless actually upsets me a bit.

>>50576728
Ah, I guess I must have missed a FAQ or something, do forgive my ignorance.
Though that changes my opinion on Paladin multiclassing, and only makes me want to play a gestalt campaign even more.

>>50576743
>Because you're not going full warlock, because that would be dumb.
I very clearly didn't specify a level total, and ii never build tor 20. Paladin 2, warlock til desired spell level, switch back or stay.

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How do we make the dragonborn race equal in power to Half-orc or Half-elf

>>50576755
I dilute it intentionally, as everyone who seems to desire one defines it differently anyway. Discounting the original Gith specific meaning anyway.

>>50576749
Eldritch Knight lacks spells from the Ranger's spell list. Arcane Archer goes around that. Both are good magic bow fightan men, it depends on preference

>>50576780
Make dragon breath not shit, perhaps by making it a recharge ability?
I doubt anything will be as good as half elf in my opinion aside from variant human, because damn those ability acore increases are too good

>>50576749
The Arcane Archer gets 2 'magical' effect per combat, that incidentally are damage-focused, the Eldritch Knight can cast maybe a defensive spell or two per fight, but the spell will last longer.

Battlemaster is STILL the best 'magical' archer.

>>50576749
Magical Bowmen is at its best as Valor Bard. UA ranger is decent, EK lacks good options for ranged combat, and Arcane Archer is neat but needs more uses/features.

>>50576797
Make it a short rest recharge bonus action use, Done.

>>50576813
I was thinking make it recharge d6 (5-6), mostly since the damage is way too low to justify ever using it ever

>>50576832
Which is why it should be a bonus action.

>>50576749
EK makes a good defence-focused archer.

They have spells they can use to defend themself, and they can fight in melee effectively using rapier+shield +GFB/BB if they must.
However, the problem there is that they have to then use a shield.

You can also try EK using eldritch blasts.

You can also go battlemaster + 15ft pushback arrows to keep enemy distance and extra damages.
You can also go warlock and get 10ft pushback on every single hit and be a little shitter.

>>50576832
You still wouldn't bother, so more uses barely helps the problem, scaling at cantrip levels, or making it bonus actionwill make it more useful.

>>50576863
Why not both?

>>50576891
Should be fine, as long as it starts at like, 1d8, maybe 2d6, but it could scale stronger than cantrips do.

>>50574417
>bag of rats abuse
Explain

>>50573842
Is this based on the DMG variant? I want to know if the math is the same

>>50573842
Motha
Fuckin
LIMITLESS MAGIC

Also, claws are back on the Draconic Bloodline huh? Cool.

>>50575249
No, you're right about the combo. The quasi-rage lasts until the END of you next turn.

>>50576780

Make Dragon breath a bonus action and add Con bonus to damage that is usable Con bonus number of times per short rest. A small AOE damage ability still doesnt match up that well to shit like free feats free spells or free skills but it gives them something

>>50576780
Give them darkvision

>>50576992
Holy shit that's WAY to frequent, compare to Hungry Jaws. I don't mind it being stronger, but spamming it every round is retarded, and entirely doable with a maxed con.

>>50576992
>short rest
No fucking way, make it prof times/day and that's it

>>50577009
Hungry Jaws?
Please explain, this sounds interesting, and I can't recall anything qith that name.

>>50576354

>>Ninja weeb handles everything without being seen
>>But I crit more often whenever he feels enough pity to not kill everything

>>50577025
>Hungry Jaws?
Lizardfolk racial ability

>Bonus action
>1d6+str damage
>Gain temp hp equal to damage dealt
>Once per rest

>>50577047
Ah, now I remember.

>>50577025
Lizardman ability from Volo's, you can use your bite attack as a bonus action, iirc once per long rest, and gain temp hp based on the damage.

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>>50577061
>iirc once per long rest
short rest

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Question.

Can I end concentration at any time? i.e. it's not my round and or turn in initiative but I decide to stop concentrating.

As the PHB states:

>You can end concentration at any time (no action required).

Or is it merely a free action on my turn?

>>50577078
Fair enough, i wasn't quite sure, it still should be the ability reference for improving dragon breath.

>>50577090
Any time means any time. You can do it on the opponent turn as well.

>>50576548
Generally Light cleric or forge cleric (yes despite wearing no armour you still get sweet stuff like burning smite)

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Where are your gods now?

>>50575063

The real problem seems to be that none of them are particularly focused on doing anything particularly well and/or uniquely.

Arcane Archer gets a couple of neat magic arrow moves per short rest. They are ok but a ranged Battlemaster gets a better deal with much more versatile moves and more options in general

Knight is the most mechanically solid. Its got a cool niche as a guy thats very good at defending your fellow party members. The thing is if your opponents just focus on you then your class features end up pretty much worthless and until 18th level you dont even get anything that helps you survive anymore than a Champion. You also get a few ribbon level things related to mounted combat that I assume they want you to use to defend your mount

Samurai doesnt seem to know what it wants to do. Its got a bonus action advantage+tank ability that lets you act like a Barbarian for one round at a time a few times.You then get a Wis saves and top it off with a deathward/Action surge. The class doesnt seem to do anything in particular and seems more like a random collection of neat abilities that dont work together that well

Sharpshooter seems to be intended for no feat games and looks to be pretty solid if not a little bland. You basically have built in mini-feats that could free you up to get other feats at worst. The problem tends to come from not being able to do much but launch an extra attack or two over a ranged BM or even AA

>>50576936
Not him but... Dark one blessing activate whenever you reduce a hostile creature HP to 0. No CR limitation...

>>50577303
Samurai level 3 ability actually last for 2 round ("until the end of your next round")

>>50576289
People who try to play gishes always run into the problem of breadth. By definition, a gish is seeking redundant options (swinging swords and casting spells) and yet is trying to keep up with those who specialize in one thing or another. You can't have it both ways and not suck. Maybe you're okay sucking, but if you're not then you'll have to pick which option you'll focus on and which you'll only dabble in.

In your case, you clearly want to be a fighter who occasionally casts spells, rather than a wizard who occasionally swings a sword. You could be an eldritch knight, an arcane trickster, a ranger, a paladin, or maybe a martial class who takes a couple of levels in a spellcasting class. You can be a bladesinger if you want, but bear in mind that a baldesinger is a full caster who is always better off casting spells at a distance than charging headlong into melee. Yes, even if you cast Greenflame Blade.

> DM let a guy buy +1 weapon last session

Well... guess I will buy some uncommon item too...

>>50573587
Fucking Grasping Vine. A level 4 concentration spell that can pull a creature 20' if it fails a dexterity save. But it's a bonus action! But it doesn't do anything.

>>50573716
>cloud of daggers, nystuls magic aura, rope trick, enlarge/reduce, and some others feel pretty subpar.
Cloud of Daggers is niche, but has more purpose than scorching ray, for example. Nystul's Magic aura is a classic utility. Rope trick is an extradimensional short rest. Enlarge is a neat little combat buff, and reduce works on objects to make it an incredible utility spell in one package. These are far from the worst spells.

>>50574700
>mfw this is how you make the Grog of Substantial Whimsey

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grog_of_Substantial_Whimsy_(3.5e_Equipment)
literally the only good page on that site

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Tomelocks suck!

-Chainlocks were here

>>50577274
>Implying my goddess of civilization hasn't been trying to get gunpowder to work in spite of the magical interference thrown up by the goddess of nature
>Implying a member of her clergy isn't where a gunslinger would come from in my setting

>>50578371
well what you expect? There is nothing to spend your thousands of gold on in this edition since they took out the gold price of magic items, most DMs don't want to deal with the possible extra book keeping of giving property and such to the players, I know I don't.
I'd make buying items possible, but like the DMG says, it will be very hard to do and might make a decent adventure hook.

>>50578633
> Not completing your spell pokedex

>>50578633
Take the Final fantasy 12 approach

Killing the boss gives you an "Enigmatic Ruby", 4 Wind Stones and an "Animal Hide". But you can trade that shit at the bazaar and they give you Excalibur because they happened to receive one in a trade and really wanted that fucking Ruby.

Same outcome but your monsters aren't deluging gold and you're not just buying a +4 Holy Sword

>>50578613
hey, at least you didn't waste your class feature like a bladelock

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>>50578613
This is my Great old one tomelock.

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>>50578613
But seriously let's look at the facts...

Chainlock
>Receives a familiar right at level 3 that can fly, turn invisible, turn what it carries invisible, get close to enemies while invisible and deliver a surprise touch spell, attack if you need them to but it isn't recommended, scout completely undetected, keep watch undetected, provided additional eyes and a brain for help on knowledges, perception, insight, and can even give aid to some dex, str, and cha skill rolls if you're creative, and can deliver messages and talk.
I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting.

Tomelock
>You get three cantrips that can provide extremely limited utility or extremely limited combat use as long as you have the book in hand.
>You can spend one of your few invocations to learn the ability to cast two rituals from any list, but finding ritual spells outside of the wizard's spell list is exceedingly difficult.
>Both of these can be virtually replicated by Magic Initiate and Ritual Casting, leaving the chainlock to also be able to gain two cantrips from a single class or learn ritual casting from the wizard's spell list, and leaving the tomelock even further in the dust.

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Why is Rapid Strike not the mechanical wording for Berserker Path's Frenzy? Why do class features like Divine Dense and Second Wind scale with tertiary ability score or class level but Fighting Spirit is as good with 3 levels of fighter as 20? Why does Knight break action economy and opportunity attack rules? Why do Sharpshooter and Arcane Archer exist?

>>50578733
> but finding ritual spells outside of the wizard's spell list is exceedingly difficult.

What did he mean by this? Unlike Ritual Caster feat, Book of Ancient Secret doesn't require you to find a spell in "written form".

You can just find or encounter someone who cast it and transcribe it into your book.

>>50578733
Pact of Tome and Pact of Blade both seem like most players would be better suited playing a wizard or a bard. They seem to be a way for someone to play a warlock that's not really a warlock. Pact of Chain is the only pact that feels unique and flavorful for the warlock.

>>50578789
Then unless you can parle with the enemy druid, you'll be learning rituals from from party members and maybe a low level townsfolk. Why learn a spell that someone else in your group can already cast better than you?

>>50578839
If they're a druid for example, it lets them memorize something else than the rituals.

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Still waiting on the chain pact invocation that let's you get a familiar from a higher CR. I want a dretch, bearded devil, or hag familiar. I wonder if they'd add a high level one that let's you conjure more than one familiar at a time too

>>50578839
1) level 1-2 spell can easily be found in city. That include stuff like Speak with animal, Augury, Divination and Silence (Something chainlock would love to have. you know imp still make sound while they are invisible right? So it's not like "LOL IMPOSSIBLE TO DETECT" but only give you advantage on stealth roll)

2) Because other than the Druid and Cleric need to prepared spell to cast them as ritual. Tomelock having ritual book free them of this burden.

>>50578875
>i'm still waiting for something that will literally never happen, ever, and is a shit idea!

I want to make Ghost Rider inspired character. I'm thinking Scourge Aasimar. 3-5 levels in Paladin with the Oath of Vengeance or Oathbreaker (I like the abilities) and a Walock. I'm not sure which pact yet, but I'm thinking of either the Fiend or Undying Light patron. Background would be Haunted One. Any tips or advice? Also are there any unique or special weapons added in any supplements?

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>>50578907
Well there's no reason to be rude. I'd settle for a conjure fiend spell that the warlock can take as a mystic arcanum.

>>50573587
>that pic
Most official pics of wizards in all editions have them as old fucks, but I've never actually played a wizard that looked older than 30.
They either are young and just out of apprenticeship (low level games) or powerful enough not to age at all (high level games).

>>50578839
It's funny how you claim finding something is 'difficult' when the DM can make up anything. There could be no ritual books in the world, or they could be easily found everywhere. It's completely arbitrary.

I've got a question about Paladins. If I hit with an attack enhanced by Thunderous Smite, can I then also upon the hit use the Divine Smite class option to burn an additional spell and deal more damage? Or does the fact that Thunderous Smite use concentration prevent that? Blowing people up using both on a hit would be fun as fuck, but I don't know if it's within the rules.

Would allowing the full first round damage of Witch Bolt on all subsequent rounds after hitting make it a viable damage-dealing spell?

>>50579065
Nothing says you can't

>>50578938
>can't wait for infinite no cost summoning of fucking hags and devils

what possibly made you think this would happen? when has wotc added anything to a pre existing archetype? why would they make you a better beastmaster ranger?

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>>50578938
I was always curious why they didn't include this. Would it be balanced to give the warlock access to a conjure fiend spell that was mechanically conjure fey, but with fiends.

>>50578938
Those are in a UA
>>50579160
Everything is a better beastmaster ranger. A necromancer is better. Buying a dog is better

>>50579125
My DM tried telling me I couldn't after a bunch of sessions because I was practically one shotting every major encounter we ran into. I once crit on top of it and dealt somewhere around 50dmg at lvl 3, so I can see why he'd want to look into it.

>>50579205
>UA for summoning demons
>None of the spells are for the warlock
Wizards, no sense of right and wrong

>>50579213
you can use divine smite after you see your roll, so you can abuse that on crits regardless. Nearly all the smites don't scale, so you're not actually adding much damage from them. Thunderous for example is only 2d6; 7 on average. And they have to be cast before a hit so you're risking wasting a slot to boot. The combo is not very impressive.

> Best warlock patron
> Not ghost in the machine

>>50579403
>Make Bard a half-caster like Paladin and Ranger
>Still gets cantrips at level 1
>Lore Bard gets a single use of each level 6+ like Warlock does

Does this fix Bards and make then less amazing at everything? Does it make them too weak? What else would need to be changed?

>>50579452
All the half-caster get extra attack.

>>50579452
>make bard half-caster
This hand-wavy statement implies a lot of work. How do you go about deciding which levels they gain spells and which ones? Paladin and Rangers get fewer spells but have other class features they gain at various levels, so what features are bards getting instead of new spells? Does no one ever get those high level bard spells?

Also I disagree that bards are too powerful or 'amazing at everything' and need to be nerfed anyway, so you are doing a lot of work for limited benefit. Is one of your players even playing as a bard? Would anyone pick your new nerfed bard class to play when you are done writing and playtesting it?

>>50579104
Except for the short range, no ability to change targets, and how easy it is to break the spell even beyond being concentration, yeah.

https://www.moxboardinghouse.com/media/cosmonomicon/

Thoughts on this setting? What would I have to keep in mind / add to flesh this out and make it playable? Any ideas for adventures, encounters, etc?

>>50579523
So which is the better solution:

A
> allow full first round damage on each subsequent hit

B
> Double or even triple range
> Allow to change targets (with a new attack roll to avoid hitting a mook, then moving it onto a boss)
> You have advantage on maintaining concentration against the creature you have targeted via witch bolt.

Bladelock with Arcane Gunslinger (modern magic UA) invocation for automatic rifle? Being at range fix everything about bladelock...

>>50579556
I think I would prefer a hard to use spell that can scale to be useful at any level over an easy to use spell that's just not worth casting after level 5. So probably the second one, because fucking WotC, eh.

>>50579452
>>50579518
The only problem with Bards is Magical Secrets which lets them to pick the cream of the crop spells from all the classes, and I'm not exactly sure if that's a real problem.

In a Sword & Planet genre game, how do you balance futuristic firearms (DMG p.268) with normal mundane weaponry, when both should common and are universally on the same level (because magic / story).

Do I power up physical weapons to be on par with laser guns, or do I depower laser guns to be on par with 1d8 swords?

Also are personal shields better represented by DR or temporary hit points?

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>>50579586
If your DM lets you have a 2d8 damage automatic rifle, then you still need to take the Thirsting Blade invocation to be able to attack twice. So that's two invocations to be able to make two 80 ft ranged attacks using dex for 2d8 plus dex damage each, when at level 5 you get two 1d10 eldritch blasts using cha and don't spend two invocations or have to take bladelock.

>>50579760
>power up or down
Depends. Do you want combat to be deadlier or no? If you want them to be deadlier, scale it all up. If not, scale em down.
Of course if you've other ways to mitigate damage then scaling it up won't necessarily be deadlier, but if all weapons are suddenly doubled in damage, shit will die quicker.

>personal shields
Definitely THP that replenishes via some method (like a short rest, or just 5 minutes, or replacing its mildly expensive battery, or whatever.) Way cool and fits a lot of portrayals of them.

What is the point of Dancing Lights?

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>>50579805

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>>50579836

>>50579509
That was my idea with still giving Lore Bards the extra spells. Essentially making Valor bards the extra attack option.

>>50579518
As above, Lore Bards would be getting the higher level spells in a class feature way. Their spell progression would be the same as Ranger and Paladin, though I may shuffle class feature around to compensate

>>50579644
That's sort of my aim here. Bards should really be jacks of all trades, but as it stands they're just amazing at everything. They get expertise like a Rogue and free pick of every spell list. The only area they really lack is damage and Swift Quiver gets around that.

>>50579880
You could limit them to choosing one class to pick all their Magical Secrets from.

>>50579760
>how do you balance futuristic firearms
>personal shields
Bingo bango. Everyone has personal shields that bring futuristic firearms down to melee weapon level. If you lose your shields though, boom.

New thread

>>50580097
>>50580097
>>50580097

>>50580103
There was this episode in Stargate where they had to beat a guy with bow and arrows because his personal shield blocked all gunfire and other modern/scifi weapons.

I'm not sure if it really makes any sense, but hey, if you need an excuse, there you go.

>>50580019
I feel that would still just result in Lore Bards getting all the best Wizard spells and Valor Bards becoming Rangers but better.

>>50579793
Sharpshooter

>>50577274
DMing a group whose god was killed by high level adventurers (not that they know it) which is leading to their world literally going to hell.

>>50578371
What's your setting like?
I'm running Eberron, so there are dedicated shops in large cities that have basic magic items and many leftovers from the war. After all, when a few armies give their elite soldiers large-scale produced +1 swords, they've gotta end up somewhere.
Not that it's easy to file a serial number (or national symbols) off a magic weapon or some people (enemies of its original nation or zealots of it) wouldn't take offense to its use.

>>50578744
Rapid strike doesn't do the same thing as Frenzy, you need to sacrifice a certain condition for it besides just a bonus action.
Fighting Spirit aught to scale with something.
Knight is an interesting take on implementing what previously was a strength of defender classes in a more combat-complex edition, so it gets to threaten certain things slightly outside of the action economy. Also, its attacks aren't actual opportunity attacks, so it buggers up where feats that affect those are involved.
Arcane Archer is an interesting and highly requested archetype that needs a better pass that scales and uses existing game mechanics, Sharpshooter is weird and lame and you might as well just play a Samurai or AA or BM if your DM (like most) allows feats.

>>50573920

The other side is that if Witch Bolt hits you can get the damage without another attack as long as you can maintain the circumstances, whereas with a new attack roll each turn you have no such guarantee.

It's the difference between heads = 20, tails = 1 versus rolling a d20 and brings up an interesting tactical difference: namely that Witchbolt is slightly underwhelming if you're guaranteed to hit but that if you're behind the curve Witchbolt can turn a lucky turn into 5-6 of them in a row.

is there a class that can set traps and make poisons?

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>>50577274
Slain millennia ago by Kahless.

>>50575306

The synergy with Sentinel would be too strong, though.

>>50581709
Literally any of them.

>>50575412

I think most of it is balanced if not slightly underpowered but because it's also much more accessible and clear how works it seems much stronger. Just because you can make a mathematically stronger BM archer doesn't mean that most people will know that's an option or how to do it, but the UA puts it all "up front."

>>50576296

Right up until those superiority dice run out. Or does that not happen in your whiteroom?

Minor SKT spoilers:

My players are about to encounter the seven snakes in Nightstone. They encountered Kella early on and are ok with the Zhents taking over (she told them it would add stability to the region and that they intended on giving the Nightstone residents a cut, etc). But they don't really know how evil Zhents are since they super flubbed their group history check.

How do I impress on my players that the Zhents don't have Nightstone's best interest at heart? Also, what am I supposed to do if they like the Zhents anyways? They need to be 3rd level for the caves, but I don't want to run the orc encounter because it seems really random.

>>50582026
At the levels most people play, the champion/BM will die before the champion will put out more damage than the superiority dice did. That's extra true when people are talking about really fluffy reasons for picking a champion instead of maximizing the value of those crits with big weapon dice, Half-Orc racial, lots of attacks, and GWM.