Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Can't wait for Sisters of Silence 30k rules.

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Decided to add some Nurgle's rot to my Bitter Boys.

It all went pretty well, except this one, sorta. I wanted to make it look like small rivers of toxic water, like it happened in WW1 because of the gazes around his feet, but all I can see is the Helfire Peninsula from Warlords of Draenor.

why do all of this general's models look like shit? can't you all learn to paint and praise dunc?

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My first iron hand, a primus medice that will go with my cataphractii iron father and his command squad

>>50564503
I don't care how canon it is.
I will never not REEEEEE at the pauldrons not touching the torso.

>>50564503
I like it. I always imagined The Cleaved warband to be an Iron Warriors warband that fell to Nurgle.

>>50564270
>>50564314

Nice, I've been looking for an excuse to use that part for a while, it looks very nice.

>>50564443

Oh, he's going to have the full mechadendrite array plus some cool mechatentacles, don't worry, but he's standing and being badass, not diving about or fighting like the Primarchs.
He has his pistols holstered since he spends a lot of time casting cybertheurgy rather than shooting.

Also, I'm going to make him a custom Baneblade with a spot for him to stand, and him firing guns from the cupola looks way less cool than him just standing there arms wide, since it makes him look like a crew member.

>>50564595
>The Cleaved
I think their thing happens because the ugliness within them is oozing out.

>>50564618
no it's the mucranoid being fucked up

>>50564557
All 1 out of 1 models above your post?

The photography, mostly. Guys, stop using white backgrounds. Your camera darkens the shot to compensate. Use a neutral gray... or use exposure compensation to take a brighter photo.

>>50564043 #
Do they get a max of 24 shots then? 12 from each? Or just 12 total? Their rules points to gunslinger allowing the moritat to shoot twice, so I'm assuming 24.

>>50564650
I suspected as much. The photo is always much darker even though I'm right under the lamp.

I'll try the neutral background next time

>>50564697
'to a mximum of twelve total from both pistols combined'
-> It's in their entry under Chain Fire.

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What Destroyers could have been

>>50564618
>>50564641
My theory was that their armor was built like an iron maiden, piercing them all over their body and dripping their internal fluids out through the seams.

>>50564524
Well, we decided that this general had to be cunty and unhelpful right from the off, and there's no better way to get that first supercilious post than for someone to post a model.

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>>50564829
I sort of like my idea better given how it fits with Chaos and all. Pic is unrelated. Just a picture of a bunch of geese I took.

So /hhg/, what are some interesting legion/unit synergies you're using? I'm using a double Serpenta UM moritat to great effect. Rerolling wound rolls of 1, and then further rerolling wound rolls of 1 caused by "deflagrate" is working really nicely,

>>50564902
huh so that's what australia looks like

>>50564954
My phone is an Aussie not me.

>>50564902
Was yours the mucranoid breakdown? Because that one's good too.

>>50565132
Mine was the "ugliness within coming out".

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>>50564902
>Geese
Obligatory screencap

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v2 of testing out template with fun rules

>>50565169
I love this story.

>>50564922
Oooh, I like that.

I was playing with the idea of ppaying some traitorous Ultras with a focus on being red helmeted outcasts, potentially from the Nemesis chapter as they had a lot of Destroyer squads.

Would anyone help me with background fluff?

I am thinking about being left behind enemy lines for very long, until they snap and turn themselves in to switch sides as to not die.

In the end they felt thrown away and thouht that it does not matter for whom they fight, with a chip on their shoulders (Outcast Sons RoW).

Yay or nay?

>>50565178
I like it and your lore write up, but werent the deliverers also the guys who fought with corax on that prison moon?

>>50564775
dont destroyers have hardened armour as standard?

>>50565209
Sounds good. There were plenty of isolated fleets and battlegroups across the galaxy for every legion. No reason the Ultramarines would be exempt from this.

>>50565209
Sounds like a solid start. Were they away from Calth? Tempest mentions that any Ultramarine forces not in Ultramar during the BaC were treated coldly and distantly by those who fought off the Word Bearer fleet because they didn't witness the devastation and pain firsthand. Maybe work that in, if you like that?

>>50565266
Thanks. I copy-pasted the write up on them from HH3. I cut out a few parts to fit it.

I think you're thinking of the original Mor Deythans.

>>50565295
No they have power armor, that one is photoshop'd. I only changed some options and prices.

>>50565209
Who were they fighting? Was it xenos? Perhaps a traitor force were the only ones within range.

>>50565169
I laugh like crazy every time I read that

>>50565373
>>50565397
>>50565407

Hmm, if the Ultras were grumpy with people who didnt attend Calth it might be a good idea to just have them be late due to warp shenanigans or somesuch.

I do not know if they sent red helmets out on penal crusades, but I like the idea they were sent to do some gruelling stuff to "build character", maybe under supervision of a chaplain attached to them.

I would imagine that they would have been not greeted very warmly, being fucking sore excuses of Ultramarines AND being late.

I do not really read BL, so how does the whole red helmeting happen? Does it happen to whole companies?

Might be that a detachment of the Nemesis Chapter with its Destroyers and Leviathans purged Citizens during a nasty Xenos/Enslaver infestation and it was deemed a "war crime" that they decided to go the Marines Malvolent route and just kill everything to be sure and more efficient as well.
Enslavers/Wierd Xenos might also be not understood by the HQ, so they might nave actually done the right thing but the "correct" way would have killed the Outcasts.

TLDR They did a callous thing in purging infested populace by making a correct guess, thinking just killing everyone was better than taking the risk of the Infestation biting everyone in the ass and they got court martialed for it.

How they join traitors later is easier to write up.

>>50565615
I don't think there's any mention of how common the practice of red helms was, just that it was a punishment for censure. I'd vote for you to do it; it'd look cool

>>50565615
The red helmet thing started off with only one guy, who was figuring out the best method for fighting other astartes

He got his helmet painted red as a mar of dishonour, which was ironically not long before calth happened.

He ended up rallying loads of ultramarines to fight back, and sergeants under him started painting their helmets red as well

Hence the whole red helmeted sergeants thing was born.

>>50565749
Thanks, I got inspired by talks some time back in the /hhg/.

>>50565762
Aw man, so is probably not very widespread?

But I guess I can take some artisitc license in some guy wanting to imitate big Gilly and stamp on my guys. After all it sounds and looks really cool.

What direct effect had this "dishonouring"?
Was it an official censure keyed to loss of rank, or just shaming?

>>50565815
it's as widespread as you want it to be

remember

Y O U R D U D E S

O

U

R

D

U

D

E

S

I haven't read the book (audiobook?) but I think it was like he was stripped of his rank as a commander and told to fuck off somewhere else.

>>50566001
best answer

>>50565266
The Deliverers were the ones who fought alongside the Luna Wolves for the longest time, terran vets, whom used lots of terminator armour as Horus' doctrines indicate.

>>50566001
>>50566007
Hah, thanks.

The next big thing will be deciding on a neatly organised paint scheme.

I believe the standard being black breast plate and red helmets, changed according to specialisation (black for destroyers, white for apothecaries etc).

Time to dig into all the Ultra Lore I can get for more inspiration.

Thanks a lot for the help, guys.

>>50566030
Ah ok, thank you.

I guess they were often send in to brrak the last resistance and sort of his pet legion, right? Horus's that is?

>>50565615
>how does the whole red helmeting happen? Does it happen to whole companies?
It could be. The Red helmet stands for censure. If a whole company is considered to be censured, and we have precedent of the IW censuring a Grand Battalion's command for "lack of zeal", then they all would wear red helmets.

Aeonid Thiel wasn't the only one, rather it was because of his heroism that the Red helmet ended up becoming as a symbol of leadership rather than of dishonour.

>>50566150
Good to know, so my idea is pretty viable.

I also could portrsy them as Blackshields later in the Heresy story line when they might have lost most legion culture due to fighting for Horus so long.

Truly,the Horus Heresy is the historical wargaming branch of 40k.

So many options!

>>50564697
The ideal setup is a lamp above and another one at the same level as the mini at its 1:30 or 10:30 o'clock position.

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>>50564902
Hydra Dominatus

>>50566423
Thought you might show up.

>>50566217
>Truly,the Horus Heresy is the historical wargaming branch of 40k.
I've never understood this meme. On the contrary, I see 30k as a time of legend where exaggeration (like 10 Heavy flamers in a squad) could happen, but big enough that everything happened, now forgotten in 40k.
I mean, 100 000 * 200 * 18 equals to 360 million years of individual astarte years of combat, so there's where to take from.

However, 40k is also your dudes. Both are your dudes, always forever a 100 years dot com.

And the Warhammer setting is the one where Skynet, Halo and Dead space all happened, where Event Horizon probably happens each week and Odyssey 2000 happens each third month, this shouldnt surprise you.

>>50566423
Canadian Goose Hydra? Interesting, haven't seen that logo on many Alpha Legionaries...

>>50566423
Hydra Honkinatus

>>50566479
I disagree, I find the scales in 30k make more sense, when it comes to astartes at least. Often in 40k novels the author will have to contrive some situation where the space marines' small numbers don't get them overwhelmed, like a convenient abandoned fortress in the middle of a desert or a city that's a series of domes so the marines always have a chockpoint to defend. The marine numbers in 30k don't require authors to perform these literary gymnastics, so it seems more natural for astartes to operate in legion numbers.

>>50566479
To me the difference is the shit ton of black books that help me being a dirty fluff-whore.

You just can't cram that many details and wuality writing into a codex.

I love how the FW lore feels in comparison.

For dexample, they have not yet written about a Legionaidy losing his hands in great duells.

>Looking at you, Codex Space Marines.

>>50566244
Uh,weird, I would have thought ifeal would be above and on both sides, with papers to have diffuse light

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>>50566448
I'm always here, though most of the time I just read fluff discussion while painting my Emperor's Children

>>50566595
Honk Honk.

Any pictures yet, Goose-man?

>>50565209
Aside from the other ideas in here, I could see them going rogue after seeing daemons and daemoncraft at work and realizing the Imperial Truth was a lie. And they'd probably know about the red helmet being a mark of shame and do it out of spite or irony. However... red and blue aren't a great combo, imo. Think about it first.

I don't think they'd go traitor if they were directly attacked by the Word Bearers and World Eaters. But we know that some Word Bearers were obsessed with trying to turn their opponents (e.g. Kor Phaeron and Guilliman) and it fits them. So have them perform their tricks while your garrison is watching - maybe your dudes are near a spaceport, and they see the WB attack a black ship and rush to help. By the time they arrive, the WB are freeing the psykers who are very happy and make the WB look like good guys. A couple of your dudes were Librarians forced to pretend not to have powers, and they identify with those freed prisoners. A WB chaplain goes up to them and says, "Have you read the Book of Lorgar?" and the rest is history.

>>50566595
>multi-headed diregoose
>emperor's children
That wacky fabius.

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>>50566545
>it seems more natural for astartes to operate in legion numbers.
Everything happened, must I remind you Corax himself led a force of about only 2000 marines, several of them Mor Deythan, against an alien colony ship in ZM, or that there are at least two instances I remember about Mortarion engaging in ZM. Or when about 30 Moritats killed everybody.
Everything happened
>>50566144
I didn't really understand your question, so have this pic instead.

I was thinking about joining the Heresy players at my local GW since it seems like fun, and I've decided I want to go Mechanicum.

Is there a set allegiance an army decided at building in this, or can I build/convert whatever and then decide loyalist/traitor at game time?

I'm kind of leaning towards Dark Mechanicum, but I would like to be able to feasibly play with the Loyalist allies as well, since the games tend to be a bit ad hoc.

How many Magi is it good to have in a list? I am probably going to have a fully tooled up Warlord, but would a couple cheap extra HQ techpriests be a good or bad idea? I kind of want to fluff out my "Officers" for my force.
Planning on starting with Legio Cybernetica, by the way.

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>>50566642
Eh. I prefer UM in red trim myself.

>>50566652
No worries, thanks.

>>50566573
>You just can't cram that many details and wuality writing into a codex.
I love FW's books. Several of them are pretty much fluff with rules, like how Azrael gets "killed" in Vraks I think, and is accurately represented as having been wounded and removed as a non-fatal casualty.
>For dexample, they have not yet written about a Legionaidy losing his hands in great duells.
>>Looking at you, Codex Space Marines.
I did not understand this part either.

>>50566595
Show us your EC, goose.
>>50566755
It's been a while since I looked at Vrask fluff but how did the boss man get "killed"?

>>50566642
Hmm, I like your idea as well. Also the red and blue would be seperated by black, so it isnt that much of an issue.

My idea was that they just stranded behind enemy lines, probably makes more sense if they never arrived at calth after their censure and just had to fight traitors with no really trustworthy account of what the fuck is currently happening.

So, the ruinstorm and hit and run fightjng could have pushed them further sway from Ultramar into enemy territory where they finally met some Traitorous Shattered Legions, Blackshields or nice SoH and/or WB who were NOT immediatly firing at them and were more curious than hostile to that run-down strike cruiser appearing so far from Ultramar and the front.

Would be a nice idea how they got explained the whole thing as a HUGE misunderstanding and how the terran Bureaucrats want to purge the Legions lime they did the Thunderwarriors.

Spreading the good news of chaos is also a neat option.

>>50566755
Oh fuck, my typos are terrible.Tablets,man. Regarding hands, I was trying to jab at Marneus losing his hands to the Swarmlord as a lazy plot device to show how he lost in a grisly way without killing him off or taking him out of comission to long.

>>50566652

I think what he means is that the absolute slaughter that normally happens in a marines vs marines game in 40k doesn't really represent the fluff very well while the 85% attrition rate totally matches the story and tone of 30k.

Losing 100 marines in a single battle is a tragedy in 40k and par for the course in 30k.

>>50566479
>I've never understood this meme.
>However, 40k is also your dudes

40k is more Your Dudes than 30k.

In historical games you're constrained in how Your Dudes you can go. Yes, there were some nonstandard paint schemes during WWII, especially on the German side, but you're generally working from a limited palette. If you're invading Normandy then your tanks are pretty much guaranteed to be olive drab. Your tanks or infantry come from particular units and if you want to make up a regiment of your own, well, it's a bit weird.

30k could have been like that. To some extent it is - there are 18 legions, specific ones were present at specific battles, and you can't mess with that. Fortunately, FW loosened it up by explicitly stating that all the legions had members switching sides, going rogue, turning into Blackshields, etc. Blackshields are the Your Dudes of 30k, but there's also more freedom than I expected with color schemes within any particular legion.

>>50566689
>Is there a set allegiance an army decided at building in this, or can I build/convert whatever and then decide loyalist/traitor at game time?
Many have forgotten you can use Special Characters as count as for you dudes. I was just reading about the XIXth ZM Ironfiery-assault on Hell's Anvil and when they are mentioned as fighting against their lords, "millenia old amalgamations of flesh and metal" I thought "this is Raven Guard doing ZM against Inar Satarael with lots of Revenant Adsecularii, the same way Perturabo fought an almost identical enemy by the name 'Death Judges' in their lone lone Exemplary battle".
>How many Magi is it good to have in a list? I am probably going to have a fully tooled up Warlord, but would a couple cheap extra HQ techpriests be a good or bad idea? I kind of want to fluff out my "Officers" for my force.
I should remind you you have access to both very customizable Magi Prime, Cybernetica-exclusive Archmagos Dominus, both of whom can be either support or beatstick, and lesser Magos Dominus, whom are akin to librarians.
Cybernetica may also benefit from Techpriest covenants, elite choices that can have Cortex Controllers, Masters degree on Enginseering and upgrade to Magos Auxilia
Maybe they're the officer-overseers you're looking for?

>>50566912
I thought Big Daddy Calgar lost almost everything when Swarmie munched on him.

>>50566931
When it comes to color schemes, you could also pick any 2nd founding chapter and use their color scheme as the basis for the army. White Scars that are yellow? Yep. Ultramarines that are green? Yep.
Raven Guard that are white? Yep.

>>50566912
He list his everything, counts as "removed as a casualty", like Azrael or Angelos.
>>50566844
I think he lost in duel against Arkhos the Faithless, Chaos AL Praetor? I read that thing a long ago as well.

>>50566931
The scope of 30k feels much broader and therefore the limited freedom given by FW to do wierd stuff feels much more significant.

If everyone broods alone in a corner, no one does..to drag out old pen and paper memes.

>>50566948
Exactly, the amount of count as possibilities is amazing!

Just looking at the Cult Militia list nearly blew my mind.

>>50566951
Might be, I just leafed through that Codex as I turned away from 40k long time before that and just slide in currently due to the Heresy.

>>50567094
>>50566951

He lost his arms, legs, an eye, and a good portion of his body if I remember correctly

>>50567172
How did he lose the eye without losing most of his head?

>>50566948
>>50567065

Yeah, the lesser Magi look about perfect.
The fluff for My Dudes that I've been thinking of is that they're a Taghmata raiding fleet who cannot fit large enough forces to hold planets on their ships, and as they're explorers they don't particularly want to.
Instead, when they find some tasty archaotech or need to raid a world for supplies, they flash-clone a few thousand lobotomised chumps and land them on the surface, marching them into the enemy as outflanking battle-automata and Myrmidons take down any heavy weapons. They don't need to win, just hold for long enough to get what they want and leave.

>>50564524
OK, post yours or shut up.

In fact, everybody should post models, this thread needs some brightening up.

>>50567205
Who knows, tyranid acid blood could've burned half his face which then gets treatment and a new eye. Calgar is more machine than man, like Gabriel Angelos.

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>>50567044
>White Scars that are yellow?
Anon, that's par for the course.
>>50566951
>>50567094
>>50567172
>>50567205
>>50567253
'Twas only a scratch!

>>50566917
I thought stuff like Badab happened like each year, with different protagonists of course. Also very few chapters are at full strenght and tragedies happen a lot; the Blood Ravens lost about half the chapter in a single campaign, and losing 1/10th in a single battle (aka 100 dudes with their accompanying vehicles) isn't that much of a big deal since they're taken from all the companies combined. So, each company loses a squad of ten. No biggie as I tell you.

Meanwhile, 30k armies sometimes bring their Primarchs alongside barely 60 other dudes.

We can accept the game is but a merely adequate translation of the fluff, as constrained by the D6 system as it can be, or that fluff is exaggerated as all warhammer is, but we can live with that and still have fun :)

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>>50567253
I guess Swarmie is a lot more hardy than a mass of cultists.

>>50567245
This means that I was planning on a few groups of Adsecularis and some Magi to Support them, then automata.
Those Auxilia look perfect for division commander units, and the Adsex are cheap enough that throwing down 60 and 2 Auxilia Lacarymerta isn't really expensive at all.

Rest of the list is heavy artillery pieces like Thanatar robots, as well as heavy air cover, because orbital fleet.

Does this sound like a reasonable list at all?
Not sure about any 30k meta beyond "Moritats are bad" and "Phosphex is really good".

>>50567305
>Deathwatch horde rules.jpg

>>50567253
So all space marines turn into Iron Hands in the end?

>>50567325
Are those rules really like that?
>>50567327
Dante and Boss Man(Azrael) aren't.

>>50567345
>Are those rules really like that?
If you can somehow put enough damage behind a single attack, yes.
I don't think it's possible, even in I Can Load Two Basilisks Onto My Pauldrons And Run At 298 Km the system.

>>50567280
>I thought stuff like Badab happened like each year
Badab is (and was) considered the biggest biggest marine on marine fight since the horus heresy.

Multiple chapters going all out against each other just doesn't happen in 40k. Largely because, outside of fringe incidents, everyone is relatively cool with one another in the face of actual external threats.

>>50567378
>If you can somehow put enough damage behind a single attack, yes.
>I don't think it's possible, even in I Can Load Two Basilisks Onto My Pauldrons And Run At 298 Km the system
Well, if the cultists' lives are all connected then it might be possible.

>>50567378
>Run At 298 Km
That's some Han Solo shit right there.

>>50567430
Deathwatch is crazy from what I hear. Isn't it possible for a character's bone marrow to boil and explode or is that that Dark Heresy?

>>50567280

Losing 10% of your chapter every Thursday evening at 40k night isn't usually the 40k depiction of space marines.

In contrast that's exactly what happens in almost all Marine vs Marine (and mechanicum) fights in 30k fluff.

The fluff fits the tabletop experience a bit better I think. Just my opinion though

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>>50566633
>>50566844
I posted the one on the left last week. These guys are just made out of scrap-bits I've had lying around for years, and I wanted to get some practice in before my Betrayal at Calth set gets in. It'll probably be a long time til I can actually play, but in the mean time I enjoy the hobby aspect. And til I can get some new paints as well, I'm content getting them to tabletop quality.

>>50567501
Why must beakie ECs be so damm sexy.

>>50567501
THICC

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>>50567501
>MkV with trim on the shoulder pads

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>>50567501
*posted the one in the center. Went with a different pic than I was originally thinking. This was about a week and a half ago, though the image came out a bit fuzzy

>>50567501
I like them, but I believe some people will call for thinned paints.
I have the same problem with being to impatient when they dry and clumping paint by moving half dried stuff around with my brush sometimes.
>>50567475
Agreed.

>>50567501
10/10 work, but maybe just maybe tone down the thickness by .5%.
>>50567532
>someone is using my edit
Thanks, Anon. Does my heart some good.

>>50567571
I love that edit, thanks for making it

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>>50566931
>colour schemes
The WB wore false colours at Calth, his-name-eludes-me's forces wore SoH's colours at Xana, and Headhunter Leviatal is pretty much all about false flags. You ever saw purple Salamanders? Exactly!
>Tanks in olive drab
Yeah, because most colours were either greenish or brownish, try ultramarine blue for starters :^)

>there are 18 legions, specific ones were present at specific battles, and you can't mess with that.
You wouldn't expect Sons of Horus at Prospero, but turns out they were there too.
You wouldn't expect loyalist IWs, let alone fighting on Ultramar, yet Dantioch's were there.
You wouldn't expect WE loyalists after Istvaan III, but then there's Endryd Haar's.

I mean, you wouldn't expect a mexican dude in mainland WW2, but then there's this guy.

>Fortunately, FW loosened it up by explicitly stating that all the legions had members switching sides, going rogue, turning into Blackshields, etc. Blackshields are the Your Dudes of 30k, but there's also more freedom than I expected with color schemes within any particular legion.
So I guess I'm agreeing with you? Man I don't understand anything today, kek.

>>50567571
>>50567545
I feel ya. I've been trying to get it at the right consistency, but unfortunately both the purple and off-white are cocktails of other paints I have, and both dry very quickly. Sometimes I feel like I'm spending more time adding water than I am painting. Beakie on the left is the most recent of the three, and I'm hoping to get it about there or better.

>>50567607
I love endryd haar, because he's just as angry as regular WEs, but without the nails

also it was him leading the not!SoH at Xana, a blackshield force sent out by malcador made up of legionaries from traitor legions who were on terra at the start of the heresy and were like "yeah fuck this whole betraying the imperium thing"

Pretty good example of a blackshield force, and hell they don't even wear black

>>50567645
Perhaps add a little bit of drying retarder medium?
That should slow things down and allow for better thinning.

>>50567645
The painting life is tough.

>>50566931
>FW loosened it up by explicitly stating that all the legions had members switching sides, going rogue, turning into Blackshields, etc.

And destroyed the entire tragedy of the Dark Angels with that sentence.

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>>50567475
Because they're sometimes depicted as losing only 3 guys in a whole year of uninterrupted warfare, few game systems would be able to emulate that.
The Space Marine vidya is fluffier, only three guys thwarting a chaos invasion using a waagh as a front and only losing one guy.
>Losing 10% of your chapter every Thursday evening at 40k night isn't usually the 40k depiction of space marines.
Boy do I love 30k :^)

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>>50566545
>I find the scales in 30k make more sense

I'm the opposite of you, but in fairness it all depends what you expect out of marines.

In 30K they are po' lil' space marine bois that can get killed by the dozens to thousands, are insanely loyal to their abusive primachs (fulgrim, perturabo), hell, their primarchs act like children.

In 40K they are the guys that show up in a squad and in a few days' time the war is over, they are true to life heroes who fight with odds stacked against them and win, and when the entire CHAPTER comes together ... it is the high light of all 40K lore.

>>50567607
>So I guess I'm agreeing with you? Man I don't understand anything today, kek.
I was agreeing with you, but being a bit roundabout.

30k started out closer to a historical game. The books about Isstvan III and Isstvan V are pretty "historical": you've got specific legions in specific color schemes, and the color plates show named (if unimportant) individuals. That's kind of like how experienced model airplane or tank builders will model an actual airplane or tank with a known crew and record, not just a generic one.

When the game started catching on and FW ventured beyond established fluff, they allowed more YourDudesness than I ever thought they would. And they've done it well - I like historical games, but I have no complaints about how they've implemented it. Having some Blackshields become 2nd or 3rd Founding chapters is great, and I absolutely love that you can use the list to make Thunder Warriors. Showing us a progression in legion color schemes is cool. The Cults and Militia list is beautifully flexible.

>>50567645
These are completely acceptable tabletop quality, especially as it's obvious that getting better results is within your reach.

People being too quick to rag on folks stepping up posting their models lately.

>>50567733
Nope, as the whole half turning...even more so their homeworld is far far bigger than any small loyalist or traitor warbands.

Especially since it kept them from being at Terra.

>>50567733
I think it's worse for the DA, their homeworld went traitor and the primarchs best friend went traitor with them

Usually when a primarchs homeworld goes traitor, they don't take it too well (see: Olympia), and not to mention they entirely fell to chaos on caliban, rather than many who just signed up for the traitors without chaos.

It doesn't help that most of the DA traitors escaped in the end as well, I'd assume most traitors from loyalist legions either died in the heresy (Saygar Mazan), or were hunted down in the scouring.

>>50567766
>fulgrim
>abusive

How? Fulgrim, a lot like Dorn, made sure his legion culture policed itself, he didnt abuse his marines to make them more perfect because the marines were so indoctrinated into the culture of martial perfection that they worked for that without the need for punishment or reward.

Space marines are the epitome of scientific research into the perfect warrior.

>30K space marines

Casualty list :1000000000000024354354356346356546
One city is taken.


>40K space marines

4 casualties.
System cleansed.

Which makes more sense for being super soldiers with extraordinary biology and equipment? 40K.

>>50567645
Try a wet palette!

>>50567733
I hope they do the DA justice, because they certainly haven't so far. I guess what sets them apart is that it was a near-even split and the two sides fought each other en masse.

The White Scars came the closest to doing the same - 30-50% tried to turn the legion to the Warmaster's side - but that battle only lasted what, a few hours? The Khan put his foot down and the lodge members mostly stood down, shamed. A few fled, but probably didn't face loyalist White Scars during the Heresy.

Of course you've got the Isstvan III legions, but that was always part of the story and the loyalists didn't even know what was happening.

For all the other legions it was very small groups going the other way.

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>>50567684
I like him too, but his rules are mighty stupid.

He gains Furious Charge after his unit wins melee, which in his particular case is almost useless since he's already using a power fist, and Savage Discipline means his squad lacks the chance of successfully passing morale on a 4+ after they get their teeth kicked in. Instead they simply get swept. But his WT is nice, better than Sevatar's, still not Morturg's.

So, I opened HH6 to verify it was him and guess what's his meme-y SoH name?
Raxhal KoraDDON ebbin xDDDD

>>50567781
You can do Thunder Warriors?! What?!

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>>50567781
>The books about Isstvan III and Isstvan V are pretty "historical"
On the contrary, HH1 and HH2 have the most examples of "Your dudes" by the developers than any other.

>>50567745
>only three guys
there were other squads present on the planet, you contact them once or twice and eventually meet up with one of them alongside the blood ravens

>>50567781
>The Cults and Militia list is beautifully flexible.
mmmnyehh

It needs more variety. No chimera chassis vehicles or artillery at all? No option to up-armor your sentinels? No Solar-Auxilia-style platoons? Discipline masters and medics actually taking up FoC slots? No orders?

I mean, the militia should be like guard but with more options, not less. Provenances can only go so far.

>>50567860
Sexy Jutigans represent.

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>>50567790
The tragedy of the IW is bigger, as their Primarch and the bulk of the legion went traitor :^)

>>50567864
Chymerae option 1 or 3 I think? Take that with pariah armour on everyone to represent MkI power armour, and that makes a pretty good thunder warrior stand in

Whether these are original thunder warriors or copies made by someone who needed a personal army in the heresy is another question though

>>50567864
By taking cult militia ogres in power armour with heavy bolters or going +1 toughness and strength chymeric blackshields.

>>50567864
Blackshield Chimeras with +1S +1T -1I, blackshields get crappier power armor which is fine to represent MkI power armor.

>>50567905
EC are more tragic due to their deeper fall, from the higher starting point to the deeper destination.

Bitterboys are cool though when they stay loyal.

>Muh duty.

>>50567864
By playing weaker SM. After all, the proto SM weren't as strong as they were.

>>50567821
>the marines were so indoctrinated into the culture of martial perfection that they worked for that without the need for punishment or reward.
Nope, they worked for the admiration of their fellow legions and their subordinates.
For them there were only two options: to outlegion their brothers, akin to when some squads fought alongside the BA and earned the crimson tears after their melee prowess was noted by Raldoron himself, and when Guilliman said they had out-Ultramarine his Ultramarines, OOR utter Failure and jealousy whenever their allies achieved a higher K/D ration and unlocked more killstreaks or whatever.

As in, they really hated it, and that is in fact one of the reasons why Praetor Iddinam of the EC became traitor. Because he couldn't win Praxil (pretty much Starcraft's Terran marines without Ghosts) unaided and in time, and instead got help.

He still won, but not as perfect as he would have wanted, and he refused his name be entered in the roll of honour of such a "disgraceful" victory.

That's EC for (You).

>>50567821
Not him, but I imagine he was talking about responsibility. Leaders set the strictures for their followers, especially in a culture where adherence is expected, like a military. Fulgrim may have been pure until le magic sword, but he turned a blind eye either deliberately or by inability to relate to the effects of his drive on his men. I mean, that very thing but twisted to chaotic ends is what damns his legion.
Officers in the EC have been shown to 'abuse' their juniors, not out of malice per se, but out of the effects of pridefulness.
Thinking of things like Eidolon to Tarvitz and Lucius and then Lucius to Legionary Bulle in the very first book, the things that showed us what Crusade EC were like.
And then there's the social stigma thing with their version of the warrior lodge.
Of course
>BL
so I understand if EC players wanna ignore that shit.

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>>50567766
40k scale is still absurd, it's just not always explicitly listed. As an example, for the Third War for Armageddon about 150 companies of marines were deployed from various chapters. Even in 30k terms, that would be a full Legion, which is still a ridiculous amount of force to devote to a single campaign. And that's just in Marines. Imagine the number of Guardsmen present.

I think the problem with 40k is that with the 1,000 Marines to a chapter and low recruitment rates, every casualty is a very hard and very clear hit to the ranks. Even the loss of a single Tactical squad is 10% of a Company, or 1% of the Chapter. Losses can be glossed over in text, and accomplishments fluffed up, but in the art and in tabletop Marines die in droves. It's just another discrepancy.

>>50567889
>there were other squads present on the planet
Indeed they were, and the Blood Raven bridge was my favourite, but come on, you cannot keep track of how many orks your three guys kill by themselves.

Sicarius' fluff about his company killing a bajillion necrons with only combat knives makes sense in that context.

>>50568015
Sure but thats not Fulgrim bullying his marines to be more perfect, thats EC culture where every marine is the best or nothing at all. Thats what Im getting at, Fulgrim isnt an abusive Primarch like Pert because did all the abuse to themselves much like the Fists were they relish in pain and every single one of them is ready for the sacrifice without Dorn needing to do decimations or spend marines like ammo.

>>50568064
I love your EC colours, Maru the Skara out of them.

>>50567917
No longer correct, in MoM Thunderwarriors have been retconned to being inferior to space marines once more.

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>>50568082
>ndeed they were, and the Blood Raven bridge was my favourite, but come on, you cannot keep track of how many orks your three guys kill by themselves
The Ravens were fueled by protecting their recruiting worlds.
>>50568064
>imagine the Guardsmen
Time to post a screencap of a time where I derailed a thread.

>>50568127
What the fuck.

Seriously BL can stuff their crap into their shit-holes. First they ok all the stuff about warhounds taking down the lumbering Thunderwarriors on that planetoid and now that?

Fuck them now I am going to ignore their shit double.

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>>50568094
I guess you're right, it's not Fulgrim picking on his marines but rather them asking too much of themselves.
But I like imagining Fulgrim passively-agressive doing some "hurtfull" remarks on his children.

>Admirable bladework, Sergeant Midarian, a score of 87 to 1. We now know who to call if we ever go against an army of child soldiers. I expect you to...do better next time.

>>50567833
The big difference is that the legions wzre a an army on its own.

40k marines are closer to spec ops, you throw them at the HQ or the jead of the ennemy, and enjoy the massacre. Then you pull them out. For all the stories about SM cleansing systems in 40k, I feel the other armies are often overlooked. The Cain books are good for that, whenever he's with the SM, they go in, fuck shit up where it hurts the most, pull back and let the guard finish the boring, tedious work while they go for another target.

Now on an individual point of view, 30k marines were more likely to have nifty toys, hovever 40k marines have a much better training, conditionning, and selection process.

>>50568094
>>50568179
It's just that the word abusive is loaded; there's abusive literally, where you have Pert or Angron literally harming or causing harm to come to their troops.
Then you have 'abusive' psychological culture in a legion, Fulgrim's has an arguable case for it as it's what actually leads to their fall.

Of course you also get weird kinda-out-of-place in the timeline jokes like
>I hear you do strange things to your warriors.
Khan, you card.

>>50568127
Really? I'm happy about this, actually. I missed it when they retconned them into super space marines. I liked it when they were wealer, as it meant that they were legitimately proto-marines, not yet perfected, but still far stronger than those around them.

>>50568145
>it doesn't orbit the sun, it's marching around it on patrol

10/10

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>>50567958
I think loyalists from each of the Traitor Legions would each have their own personal loss to face with the betrayal of their parent legions. I have some difficulty thinking of how Night Lords, or World Eaters would take it, but I know very little about either legion.

I know for Emperor's Children loyalists, it would be facing the fact that despite their high status, despite being the sole bearers of the Palatine Aquila among 18 Legions, that their Legion and their primarch would fall so low. Former exemplars of what the Imperium was supposed to be, reduced to nothing.

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>>50568239
It comes with a story.

>>50568064
it bugs me that the deredeo just has a giant hole in it if you dont put the missiles on

>>50568064
>And that's just in Marines. Imagine the number of Guardsmen present.
I have always imagined several thousands of guardsmen dying in single battles, going full Somme on a daily basis, but the Exemplary battle of the IH, where they fight the Star Wars AT-AT's and pretty much save an Ultramarine expeditionary fleet from defeat, a mere 500 000 militia were "dead or dying" upon Galaspar.

I honestly expected 2 million minimum. I mean, only half a Somme for an entire planet sounds like amazing numbers.

Yes, I'm an Iron Warrior :^)

Also, on this thread we (I) already posted examples about warhammer easily containing:
Dead Space
Star Wars
Skynet (Terminator)
All of WW1 and WW2

I love this setting.

>>50568166
I don't agree with Anon's interpretation of the Thunder Warriors excerpt in MoM. The way I read it, it doesn't say much about their strength but does mention their lack of discipline and organization during combat. That's why Emps thought they wouldn't last against xenos species, not because they were physically weak.

Some people here are so primed to find things wrong in BL novels that they go overboard.

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>>50568339
Lets not forget the magic of defeating mecha-dragons with sick slam dunks.

>>50568222
I like the idea of them being shoddily made amunition marines.

They only had superior strength and toughness going on for them and it was allways said that marines arr way better soldiers.

Thunderwarriors were just a better class of ogryn warrior, sad to say.

>>50568297
Exactly.

>>50568317
>The average man weighs 12 stone
How many square bananas, you say? Jesus guy, use the metric system.

>>50568370
Phew, thanks man.

I seriously begin to dislike discussing BL here, I have the slight suspicion I fell for bait and that BL bait works best currently.

>>50568413
Even we Americans think the Brits are crazy for using stone.

I once worked in New Zealand - they've gone metric a lot more than the UK has, but a lot of people there still use stone too. That's the only English unit they seem to use (unless a "handle" counts as a unit) and it's the weirdest one possible.

I love my base-12 lengths. Base-14 is a disaster.

So what's the general opinion now that SW Fenris powers are 100% legit according to canon?

>>50568395
>Thunderwarriors were just a better class of ogryn warrior, sad to say.
I too agree with this, but I've never seen an actual source on this claim.
It's like the whole 8 feet tall marines. Most marines are mostly 7' and that notion comes from a height chart starting at 1' instead of 0', but the idea has stuck as much as Kopinski's deform marines, so nowadays any marine below 2.39 meters and with a head relatively normal to his size is called a hydrocephalic manlet.
It's the coconut effect
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheCoconutEffect

>>50568452
Thats how we think about you not using metric, desu.

Why 12?

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>>50568478
Wrong thread, m8. Please delete your post.

>>50568479
Hah.

Wierd stuff, I thouht them being 2,10 to 2,30 is big enough.
But i guess thats "power creep" for you.

>>50568478
It's still warp energy, with an questionable entity as the source as well.

Makes the SW even bigger hypocrites for thinking the TS were doing bad things.

specially now we know that Logan is wielding a daemon weapon, feeding Khorne whenever he kills something

When's the next FW open day? i pray that they have arlatax then, i need me some jump pack MCs

>>50568452
>they've gone metric a lot more than the UK has
All my tonnes weight (almost) exactly 1000 kg. No "what kind of tonne, metric, long or short?" stuff.
>I love my base-12 lengths
I don't. Base 10 for the win :^)
But if it serves as consolation, at least our numbers aren't in base 20 as the french do.
>quatre-vingt-dix-sept = 97

Yes, I hate "four score and three years ago" too.

>>50568505
A dozen I don't knows.

>>50568411
And that's why I'm building my Emperor's Children, starting with those three scrap marines from >>50567501, as being part of a loyalist Millennial that was delayed from joining at Istvaan. Once my BaC set arrives I'll be starting in earnest.

Guys

What if Konrad was Kylo Ren

>>50568533
2.13m is 7 feet. 2.43 is 8 feet.
They must weight several boulders I guess, but they can carry half a dozen guardsmen on their shoulders and run at many miles per hour for up to uninterrupted intervals of 10 score minutes :^)

>>50568533
>But i guess thats "power creep" for you.
primarchs and custodes are a pretty obvious example of it seeping down into the miniatures themselves.

Both of them went from dude-sized to ogre sized with the new heresy. And I can guarantee if the thunder warriors got a new model it would be about twice the size as the original one because of the fans in charge of the fluff thinking they aren't "imposing" enough.

>>50568539
Before Inferno is released. Early next year I heard.

>>50568601

Fuck, how long has it been since you were last here? I could almost say I missed you.

>>50568478
>SW Fenris powers are 100% legit according to canon?
They're legit in that they work but its still sorcery.

Honestly I'm unclear if the world spirit is supposed to be a reference to a machine spirit or if its its own new thing entirely.

>>50568648
We've already covered this. The Space Wolves are marine versions of Exodites.

>>50568657
>marine versions of Exodites.

So they should be purged ruthlessly and mercilessly to ensure the ascendancy of man?

>>50568635
I've been busy flaying criminals lately.

>>50568701
god help your kids if they misbehave

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>>50568613
I have always thought "a head taller than his children, save for Magnus" was a decent enough scale, which would place most Primarchs at about 2.28+ m tall, or 7.5+ feet tall, all of that in accordance to Vitruvian man proportions whilst also acknowledging space marines look a bit odd since they should present a bit of controlled gigantism from the long bones of the legs growing more than the cranium.

Maybe a bit taller than that if we want to keep Primarchs from presenting gigantism, but nothing at all like the 10 feet from pic related (3 meters).

Legend says Kopinski came many non-imperial dry gallons after seeing it.

>>50568478
Just another thing that reduces discussion, mystery and cheapens themes.
Explaining things too much is usually a mistake.

>>50568597
Good luck with that.

>>50568613
Yeah, I would not complain about going back to human sized primarchs aswell.

I would make thunder warriors just more gorilla-like. The idea of tough throwaway marines seems cool, just make them a bit more massive.

>>50568698
They work for the Emperor, and Fernis was most likely an Exodite world before the humans came along, the World Spirit turned to the humans who replaced the Eldar who abandoned it.

>>50568721
It's always the size of the heads that bothers me.
I mean, it's called out in several books, that marines have often weird, wide, flattened faces, with eyes so far apart compared to human gaze that it's like two gun barrels staring at you or whatever.
But then you scale that to Primarchs and their heads must be wider than oh, a CRT monitor or something. Eyes several inches apart, you could probably fit a handspan or a dicklength between them.

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>>50568788
>Eyes several inches apart, you could probably fit a handspan or a dicklength between them.
Attack on Magnus

>>50568601
I told you, Adam Driver is horrible at playing a villain and that Kylo Ren sucks.

Adam Driver's cool with NACHOS! though.

>>50568851
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg5QBrwKF94
So he isn't Konrad then, I'm guessing

>>50568721
>2.28+m
Oh anon, you so silly.
Primarch are fucking giants.

MoM puts Custodes at 4 METERS TALL. And the tallest custodes was barely yhe height of the smallest Primarch, Alpharius.

But maybe ADB meant 3 meters tall? Cus 4 meters tall is starting to be a lot and would put Primarch at like 5 or 6 meters and that's like a 2 stories building.

>>50568505
Divisible by 2, 3, and 4 (and 6 but no one cares). 10 is divisible by 2 and 5. Five is just as useless as six. Being able to divide by 3 and 4 is more useful to adults than being able to count with your fingers.

I'm a structural engineer and we use thirds all the time. Plywood boards are 48" wide - you can space your studs at 12", 16" (thirds), or 24". So much better than 1220mm-wide boards. And instead of 30'-0" column spacing it's 9000 mm. So many everyday lengths can be measured using two or three digit numbers if you use feet and inches.

One problem is that in metric we engineers only use units in multiples of 1,000, so we only use mm, m, and km and skip the ones in between. So where a nice and normal US-units W12x50 I-beam has a moment of inertia of 391 in^4, in metric that nice 3 digit number is 1.63x10^8 mm^4. That number sucks. I hate doing calcs in metric.

>>50568623
Inferno is getting released in the next open day. So February 4th.

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>>50568875
Those numbers are getting silly.

>>50568882
Isnt there that meme that Nasa crashed a probe because they put in feet instead of metres once?

But hey, if you like it.

After all the bongs and their former colonies and imitators also drive on the left side...

>>50569015
>Isnt there that meme that Nasa crashed a probe because they put in feet instead of metres once?

Yep, right into the surface of Mars because they put the altitude in the wrong units.

>>50568875
>MoM puts Custodes at 4 METERS TALL
This must be bullshit! It just has to be!!
Did ADB's father beat him with a meter or something?

>>50568882
Nigga, it's as if you were using elbows as a unit of measure. No elbow is equal to another, so a standard got made.
I use three measurement units: "too little", "too much" and "that's it".
> I hate doing calcs in metric.
Bullshit you don't
1 calorie is the energy required to raise the temperature of 1gram of water by 1 Celsius degree 1 Kelvin degree, but they measure the same as Celsius.

I'm an aeronautic engineer and I miss using actual measuring units. Only variables now ;_;

Also, don't use the english system when operating machinery. One second you'll be measuring how many palms a rotating piece is, the next one you'll be counting how many actual palms you have got left.

Use a flexometer, nobody cares about measuring units to do actual measuring.

>>50568875
>MoM puts Custodes at 4 METERS TALL.
Got a quote for that? I dont read BL.

>>50569025
Well, ESA does the same without that excuse.

I wish they were better at SPACE.

>>50569038
Okay, if I had to do energy or volume measurements I'd rather use metric.

Another thing with building design is that we use pressures a lot. In US Customary we're already used to thinking in terms of force/weight (pounds) rather than mass (kg). When I design a building for 100 pounds per square foot of live load, I can visualize what that means. The metric equivalent is kilonewtons per meter - how many of you guys have an intuitive sense of what a kilonewton is?

But I'm not going to defend 5,280 feet in a mile...

>>50569179
Nigga, you can't picture 100 individual pounds of pressure, and structural engineers don't really use Newtons of force when picturing pressure. They rather use Kg/m^2 because 1 Kg of downwards force is 9.81 Newtons, and 9.8 is close enough to 10.

I use Pascals (Newtons/m^2) but only because I was taught so, dad uses Kg/m^2 but only because he was taught so, and you use lb/in^2 (PSI) or lb/ft^2 because you were taught so, because none of us pictures the actual measuring units themselves, but rather the effect they have on the context.

You don't check your watch to know what time it actually is, you check it to know how many time you have remaining. "I can doze off N amount of minutes / commuting will take N amount of minutes / it's already N o'clock, which means I have N amount of time remaining for the day"

I don't picture N y's of pressure, only wether or not it will hold or if it won't.

The human mind has issues with picturing more than a few things in a short amount of time: you don't picture 30 000 feet or 9.14 km, you only realize it's a fuck-ass long distance to fall.

http://spacecollective.org/theundying/5970/Big-numbers-and-the-human-mind

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>>50568181
Still though, the difference in space marine stories in 30K and 40K is enormous.

Julius Kaesoron was talking mad shit to an Iron Hand librarian about how 30K Astartes > 40K Astartes. He led a daemonic invasion with an entire traitor hive.

Needless to say the Iron hands broke their mechanical FOOT off that DAEMON PRINCE'S ass.

Getting a 40K boner just thinking about it.

>>50569482
But, I do check my watch for the time.

>>50569494
That one guardsman always gets me.

>>50569494
>That lone Guardsmen
Tell me the mathematical odds of him killing the DP himself.

>>50569482
*how much time*
I wish 4chan's text window was bigger, it makes spellchecking a bit difficult.
>>50569500
Yes, but knowing the time allows you to better manage your daily schedule into the remaining time. I mean what good does it make to know it's 6pm by itself, other than knowing it'll be 10pm in 4 hours?

Besides, it's fun to randomly have lucid dreams because you happened to check your watch in them and when you look at it you realize you're dreaming, as the watch doesn't make sense with the de-centered needles and concentrical triangle shape

>>50569567
horrifically low, but he's a hero of the imperium for sure

>>50569567
So long as he has faith in the Emperor and himself he should at least hurt the daemon's pride.

>>50569593
>>50569617
Those are odds that I'll take.

>>50569040
It was the Guardian Spear that was 4 meters tall not the Custode.

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>>50567532

Whats a good FA choice for an Iron Warriors army? Right now I'm looking at a 10-man assault squad, jetbikes, outriders, or an anvilius pattern assault claw.

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>>50568729
Yeah, it kinda ruins the ambiguity of Space Wolves barbaric folktales and mythology by making it some kind of objective fact. Most of the people on Fenris doesn't even know exactly what their primarch was.

>>50569954
Assault squads are troops, dont take a dreadclaw unless you're putting something in it otherwise Jetbikes, outriders or seekers are all good choices imo.

>>50569986
Leman Russ was an Imperial Army Commander who was chosen to found the Space Wolves.

I shouldn't have read ADB's afterword in MoM.

>>50570196
Of course you shouldn't have! What did you do!

>>50569988
Thanks for the reminder about assault marines being troops in 30k. I'm looking to my FA slot to provide the extra bit of mobility my otherwise mechanized/footslogging IW need to keep from being outmaneuvered, so in that respect seekers don't really do anything I can't do comparably well with vetrean tacs or Iron Havoks. Outriders look pretty good, but I may or may not be getting some BoP termis for christmas so a drop claw might be the way to go instead. Does anyone have experience with how a single unit of (jet)bikers perform with particular Rites of War?

>>50570196
>I shouldn't have read ADB
FTFY

>>50570230
>>50570271

I've made a huge mistake.

>>50569954
Maybe you'd like to counter the enemy's artillery so yours reign supreme and your troops are unmolested by the enemy.
Land's Speeders can deepstrike and Legion artillery choices can't take Armoured Ceramite.

Outriders are kind of obsolete since multiple melta bombs was BTFO, so they are tactical support squads on wheels at best.

Jetbikes are nice, but they're expen$ive.

Fun numbers, 5 Jetbikes cost 205 pts and can only exchange one Heavy Bolter each 3 dudes, being wounded by bolters 1/18 of the time, or 1/27 if you factor in BS4. Two Jetbike Multimeltas end up costing 260pts (a single one costs 145), which may not be enough firepower. The initial three meltabombs end up costing you 150pts, and 40pts afterwards. The squad cannot upgrade their chainswords, and the lone power weapon ends up costing +25pts on top of the jetbike's cost.

5 Land's Speeders cost 200 pts and each of them can both exchange their Heavy Bolter, buy an extra Heavy weapon (like a graviton gun) and two Hunter Killer missiles.

Each Land Speeder Multimelta costs 50pts, meaning almost triple the dakka when compared to the Jetbikes' initial one. 5 LS Multimeltas are still cheaper than 2 Jetbike multimeltas, at 250pts, and can still gather more dakka should you choose to pay more.

5 Land's Speeders with MMelta AND graviton gun cost 325 pts.

>>50570271
>talking shit about ADB
Sevatar, ready the skinning pit!

>>50570479
ADB has mention he regrets the night lords omnibus because it showed Abaddon in a bad light.

>>50570506
Well that's a shit reason

>>50570506

In the Eye of Terror

Men Become Daemons

>>50570196
What are you talking about Emps never loved his sons just read this from ATS

>“The Emperor leaving the Crusade,” said Magnus. “I heard him speak to Horus upon the reviewing stand. My brother desired to know why our father was leaving us, and do you know what he said?”
>“No, my lord,” said Ahriman, though he understood the question was rhetorical.
>“He said that it was not because he wearied of the fighting, but because a greater destiny called him, one he claimed would ensure the legacy of our conquests will live on until the ending of the stars. Of course Horus wanted to know what that was, but our father did not tell him, which I saw cut him deeply. You see, Horus was the first of us to be reunited with our father after our… scattering. He fought at his side for nearly thirty years, father and only son. Such a bond is unique and not easily relinquished. Truth be told, it is a bond many of my brothers look upon with no small amount of jealousy.”

Who could ever mistake this as anything but deception. It was clear the the Emperor was only pretending to care about Horus to sow mistrust among his sons so that he could get betrayed and almost die. How you plebs cant see this amazes me.

BL was a mistake.

>>50570506
He probably regrets showing Abbadon to be a mincing faggot, but probably not the series as a whole.

>>50570586

A Legion Without Borders

>>50570586
Magnus can believe whatever he wants to believe. Doesn't mean that's what their relationship actually is. Especially coming from Mr. "I can't follow a single instruction and fuck up everything."

>>50570586
More and more BL are rolling with the

>Emperor planned the Heresy

Theory.

>>50570631

He offered half of the primarchs to the pantheon as part of the bargain. It's all part of the plan.

>>50570627
>Such a bond is unique and not easily relinquished. Truth be told, it is a bond many of my brothers look upon with no small amount of jealousy.”
>HURR DURR MAGNUS HATE
Fuck off mate. ADB's retcons dont make sense with the earlier representations even in BL's series. That was my point.

>>50570631
Yeah and that ruins the tragedy.

>>50570231
Jetbikes are good mobile melta bombs, plus IW can get shrapnel bolts. Also attack bikes have a few other weapons jetbikes don't. If you plan to use Perturabo, he allows termies DS so pods are super important.

>>50570646
[Lack of source intensifies]

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Guys, the Emperor is a singular individual. Millennia old. Made of thousand of wise shamans. Experience of life dating to the most primitive of humans since our evolution in Africa.

it's either

>Emperor is a massive retard
Or
>Emperor planned the Horus Heresy from the start

I tried to find the image which explained the Emperor's origins to explain to you which of the above is the correct choice.

Unification Wars when.

>>50570740
After the Scouring.

>>50570631
>tfw even the Emperor is Alpharius.

>Blood Angels get no attention

A blessing or a curse?
I can't decide.

>>50570762

>After the Scouring.

I want to believe.

>>50570701
>That image
The only reason the Grey Knight were able to touch Magnus was because of Khorne.

>>50570740
fuck that, BL covering Great Crusade in 100 short stories and 50 novellas when?

>ancient spooky xenos civilizations
>DAoT everywhere
>Men of Iron
>cute primarchs doing cute things
>future is looks great

>>50570781
And the only reason they couldn't touch him was the Blue Scribes giving him plot armour.

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>>50570765
A blessing.

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>>50569797
Oh that's good to know. Assuming it's 4 meters counting the blade, this means the average Custodes is about 2.16 m tall, or 7'3". It's a bit of a conservative height, taking the assumptions pictured, would you like to see the math?

>>50570789

They already covered the Great Crusade. Three more novels to go.

>>50570803
>Blue Scribes giving him plot armour

Faith in the Emperor giving him righteous fury*

Fix'd

>>50570803
>Plot armour gets defeated by Macguffin
Yep sounds like GW story.

>>50570824
It was a pathetic amount, and really, all they ever really focused on was the Heresy or leading up to it.

Admit it, they are massacring everyone's character while Word Bearers battling DAoT AI or World Eaters fighting giant man eating worms is infinitely more interesting.

>>50570789
>More BL

I'd rather not.

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>>50570583

>>50570885
They've just started a Primarchs series Anon. Which is just them before the heresy. Expect inception levels of foreboding.

>>50570920

Praetorian of Dorn was a great time for /hhg/.

Alpharius posting everywhere.

>>50570935

Then came Master of Mankind, and the dark times.

What next?

>>50570949

Probably only bitterness and skullduggery.

>>50570949
Inferno and Magnus-posting will reach unforeseen levels.

>>50570969

Inferno will show just how cool the Vlka Fenryka really are.

>hurr durr we're not actually stupid barbarians we just think and act like stupid barbarians all the time and if you think that we're stupid barbarians just because we are stupid barbarians then you just got tricked *wet leopard growl* my name is NOT Bear XD

>>50570969
>Implying its not going to be Russ posting
With what WoM said he literally did nothing wrong. Horus was the one who sent him to Prospero not Emps so he cant be blamed for that and his Rune Priests use the power of Fenris.

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>>50570885
>World Eaters fighting giant man eating worms is infinitely more interesting.
This. Add "Tremor" to the list of movies that happened in warhammer.
That's why FW black book fluff is >>> BL novels, even the exemplary battles are better than some.
Most legions got three of them and the IF's were about the Old Night, boarding assaults and NECROMUNDA , while the IW's only got one about the not-Death Judges ;_;

>>50570996
I love the Prosperopasta.

Assault cannon or plasma blaster? Im not sure which is better.

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I can't wait for the BA/DA books. If by some means that they get merged into one I think my heart would explode from joy. Double angel posting, Anons. Imagine it.

>>50571138
>If by some means that they get merged into one I think my heart would explode from joy.

It IS the next book after Inferno, confirmed on the last open day so next primarchs after Magnus will be Sangui and Lion while Dorn and Omegon wait another year.

>>50571152

Is Khan last?

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>>50571152
>next primarchs after Magnus
MFW they still havent previewed Magnus

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>>50571181
Shut your whore mouth hobbit! They'll release Magnus on Februrary, Sanguinius on July and Lion on December! Y-You just wait!

>mfw I'll buy Dorn for my 30th birthday in 2020

>>50571255
>Implying Inferno will ever get released
>Implying they wont delay it to give a proper spotlight to the custodes and SoS

>>50571152
Bionic hearts here I come! Or maybe my joy will keep my spirit bound to my heartless corpse.

>>50571015
Wait, if Fenrisian lore is actually correct and Morkai is the being powering/protecting the Rune Priests, does this mean the other legends are also true?

Did Russ actually beat the Thunderwolf so hard that it ran away and turned into stars to escape him?

Did Russ really skin Blackmane and use it's pelt to make a cloak that allows him to walk in the world of spirits? Does Russ have a magic warp portal cape?

>>50571279
Their spotlight is IN inferno

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>>50570969
Late 2016-2017 will truly be the year of Magnus

>Burning of Prospero
>Wrath of Magnus/Magnus model
>Inferno
>Crimson King novel released in 2017

I dunno why GeeDubs is so into him lately

>>50571279
was confirmed at BL Live 2016 that it's due release for February 17th 2017.

>>50572247
Playing too many h-games by Empress.

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>>50572554

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No speaking in the library, please. (Still need to do the real base, that's just a old test base I had lying around.)

>>50573127
Nice, what's your cadre name?

>>50573151
I'm a big fan of BattleTech so I'm considering stealing one of the lesser known Clan names like Cloud Cobra or Hell's Horses. It fits in with the cadre naming scheme which seems to be based on an animal (Frost Lynx, , etc.)

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>>50573293
Rotating Puma

>>50573344
Volkite Wolf

>>50570650
What representation? The Emperor used his psychic powers to manipulate all around him appearing to them as what they wanted him to be. He feigned love for the Primarchs.

Also if what LG is the ongoing course of the HH, then the Emperor was setting Horus to be the traitor all along

>>50573429
Palatine Phoenix

>>50573127
No library here. Just good, old fashioned channeling the spirit of Prospero.

Nothing to see, move along.

>>50573293
Stinger Monkey?

>>50573430
Then what was he doing with the XXth? What part of his super convoluted plan that he's not telling people about required a bunch of nuts creating super convoluted plans inside it?

>>50573482
Bolt Raven

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I CAST FIST!

>>50573647
>CAST
VI, YOUR BROTHER IS BEING NAUGHTY!

>>50573570
The saner traitor primarchs realize that the Horus Heresy isn't stopping. Alpharius appears in a cowboy hat, shouts that he but the brake line and "Wildcard, bitches!" before jumping out before they roll into the Eye of Terror.

>>50573344
>>50573429
>>50573482
>>50573570
>>50573609
I might go with Void Ravens.

>>50573647
Finally got your transfers?

>>50573647
Time for some imperial fisting.

"Take the fist!"

>>50573647
>cast
CALL THE WOLVES, WE HAVE A ROGUE PSYKER, I REPEAT, A ROGUE PSYKER!

>Police sirens
STAND DOWN, AND RETURN TO FOLLOWING THE EDICT OF NIKAEA OR WE KILL DORN.

THIS IS THE WOLF POLICE OF THE SPACE WOLVES WOLF LEGION. COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP AND YOUR PSYCHIC HOOD OFF. WE REALLY WANT TO HURT YOU.
>woop woop police car sound

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>>50573647
Transfers at last

>>50573708
>wolf police of the space wolves wolf legion
Kek.

>>woop woop police car sound
I don't know why, but that bit was the funniest part to me.

>>50573647

How are the WE's coming?

>>50573647
>The Blade of Perdition
>Not the Flying Fists
Shame. It can even ram things.

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>>50573906
slowly, primed and washed a bunch of infantry and put gold trim on the inductii, gonna start bluing the shoulders and backpacks tomorrow. painting an infantry heavy army is a slog of slogs.

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>>50573747
You have the right to remain brutalised if you do not comply.

>>50573979
All those poor WE in their rage vage.

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I'm looking to get an aerial transport for my marines. Considering that Chapterhouse's conversion kit has been sold out/oop for months now, is there a feasible way to kitbash a Stormraven with a Valkyrie (Which I already have on hand), or should I bite the bullet and save a bit more for a Stormeagle instead?

>>50573979
>>50573647
>>50567501
Good job anons

>>50568064
By the Emperor...

>>50567607
Watched that movie two days ago. Brad Pitt sure loves killin' Nazis

Master of Mankind is actually a good read. And it's got this bit - for context, it's a Blood Angel and Arkhan Land in his personal Raider.

>“What in the Omnissiah’s name will your chainsword do against that?’
>‘Very little,’ Zephon replied. Yet still he gunned it. ‘Bring us in closer.”

>>50574195
>Brad Pitt sure loves killin' Nazis
He still wants his scalps :^)
>>50573979
I see Knightismund in the background
>>50573936
>>Not the Flying Fists
It would be a nice name along its sister ships, the Hovering Hand, the Mighty Mitts and the Paw of Punishment.

>>50574306
>He wants to hit it with his sword!

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>>50574306
>>“What in the Omnissiah’s name will your chainsword do against that?’
Don't be so quickly to dismiss that notion, Daemons are indeed more vulnerable to melee and simple blades than to munitions and CHOOMs.

>>50571410
Probably.

>>50574155
>Chapterhouse's conversion kit has been sold out/oop for months now

Oh no, I was gonna get that as well, since I got a stormraven kit next to nothing and don't have any other army to use it with. Shit.

>>50571015
Then who sent the Custodes and Silent Sisters? Wouldn't they say "WTF Horus, that wasn't what the Emperor ordered".

How the hell do I deal with Knights as Mechanicum?
Short of dropping 3 haywire Myrmidons and/or Decima behind it, which is a bit drastic, I'm really not sure. I can shave off a few HP with Darkfire or artillery, but I can never kill one before it whacks something or someone important with that D choppy.
Should I get a Lightning? I hear Krakens are good for that.

>>50575527
Yep. Its retarded and makes zero sense. Welcome to the lore of the Thousand Sons.

Laurie Goulding does have a good point. The whole Horus Heresy started because:

>Because nearly three decades ago, GW's original lore-writers needed an explanation for why there weren't more plastic alien miniatures. Alan Merrett added some more detail because we needed text to fill some chase cards in a licensed game. Black Library have been trying to make sense of it ever since.

For context, the game without enough aliens was the original Epic, then called Space Marine. Adeptus Titanicus (an expansion for that game) was similar in that both sides got the exact same plastic sprues to save money. To justify it, they said "Oh, there was a civil war in 40k's past, that's why both players get the same minis."

By 2nd edition, GW had more money and made Eldar and Ork plastic infantry and tanks (and a plastic Mega-Gargant).

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/the-grey-raven-ebook.html

>>50575600
Makes you wonder wonder why they didn't just go with "it's loyalists vs. chaos traitors." Surely that was the justification for Adeptus Titanicus having same minis on both sides.

If it was just some throwaway justification for the game, nothing more, why did Slaves to Darkness have to contains all that stuff about the Heresy? It came out the same year. Why waste all those pages to justify some board game in a totally unrelated publication?

Hey /hhg/, do you guys happen to know any books that revolve around the Adeptus Mechanicus? Story books, not just the two codices. I don't mind the era it is happening in, be it 30k or 40k, I just want some good Mechanicus literature.

>>50568882
You just convinced me of the worth of base 12. Thanks anon.

>>50575879
Those [noun] of Mars books by McNeill. They're about the crew of an Explorator Ark who go into uncharted territory. Not just Tech Priests, there's also Guardsmen and a couple Space Marines, but it's a fairly decent limited series.

>>50573430
Distractions?

>>50573570
>Stinger Monkey
I see what you did there.

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>>50564454
Ok, traitorous Ultramarine guy back here.I think I might have come up with a basic colour scheme.

What do you think about this one?
Red helmets to signify disgrace, black parts to show they were part of the Nemesis Chapter and metal shoulder trims to avoid red and blue clashing to much.

And advice or personal recommendations?

>>50576916
Needs moar toilet seats.
I think there's too much black there, maybe make the chestplate blue?

>>50576916
Looks interesting. When you come to paint a test model, (as you always should,) I'd pick quite a bright blue. Blue and black can easily blur together to make the model into a dark blob if you don't use a fairly strong shade of blue.

What colour are you thinking of doing the bolter? I probably wouldn't do it in black with that scheme, a black bolter held in black arms across a black chest (remember, a lot of 30k marines don't have chest decoration to add colour) may be a bit much. Personally I'd solve this by doing the chest in blue, but that's just me.

>>50577072
Hmm, what about changing the Backpack to blue and changing the kneepads to blue as well?

>>50577091
Nah, the kneepads bring black to the legs.
Backpack maybe.

>>50574155
I wonder if the Stormwolf could work as a Storm Eagle. I like the assault boat look and I'm not a fan of the Caetus' double hull approach. Been thinking of getting a Stormwolf, armouring up the cockpit, putting Stormraven wings on it and modifying the armament to maybe wing mounted lascannons and TL multi-melta on the nose. Don't know where to put the rocket pods yet.

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>>50568788
Father Mozgus confirmed missing primarch?

>>50577085
Thing is I want a cnetral piece being black and what fits better than the chest?
I will of course paint a test mini, but best to plan it out allready, right? Though about going for a red bolter case.
>>50577107
Ok, will tinker around with that.

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>>50577155
Ok, redone. I wanted to go for a brighter blue in general...the shade 40k thousand sons have is one I like.

I am still a bit unsure about the chainmail trim on the pauldrons, but i think it looks pretty good in general.

Is there a list of which Primarchs Ferrus Manus made weapons for?

>Fulgrim
>Lorgar
>Vulkan

>>50577072
PS: Will add toilet seats later.

>>50570935
Shanked like a little bitch after being out-sneak'd by the man with the better hair

>>50577221
That's looking better, the extra contrast helps a lot.

>>50577313
Thanks for the advice with the black again, makes sense that you have to usel ighter colours if you have big chunks in black.

Did mess that up once allready with my DEldar, so I should have known.

Any idea for the pauldron trim, or is chainmail ok?

>>50577221
Try a tarnished brass to look like a degraded gold.

>>50577327
I think the chainmail looks okay in your image. Interested to see how the scheme turns out on a mini.

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>>50577351
Hmm, It fits nicely to the red Helmet and later red bolter case as well as the regular gold.

Will think about that.

>>50577372
Definetly, I will be buying some new colours and a small box of dudesmen to try it out probably.

The 5 man snap fit variant might still be available.

Thanks for the help, I feel a bit guilty for using up the image limit.

>>50577275
So here's a question. Would they still wear the Ultima? Perhaps it's the Ultima with the Eye of Horus within it, similar to the Eye of Vigilance the Iron Hands wore.

>>50577424
Yup, I think that is the plan. Still being ultramarines or at least warborn, but working with Horace.

After all the Khan had a sizeable amount of traitors and even some Iron Hands switched size because Ferrus was WEAK.

>>50577256
All of them, probably.

>>50577404
Now I reckon there's too much blue.
Maybe make the middle bit of the backpack metallic?

>>50577424
One last question of taste though, what armour mark do you think would look good on them?

I will probably go for some MKIV on the "important" people and squads with maybe a bit defaced ultramarine heraldry via the upgrade kits and some Heresy pattern for the footsloggers.

>>50577673
Hmm, good idea. Metallic would tie in nicely with the pauldron trims, thank you.

>>50577682
Mixed.

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>>50577700