EDH/Commander general

>>50561221
What's a good way to run UB zombie tribal
Was thinking of maybe Gisa and Geralt or Grimgrin

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what dou you guys think about pic related?

>>50561352

You should be able to play it as your commander

>>50561278
Grimgrin is definitely better and offers some good combos.
The problem with G&G is they aren't zombies themselves among other things.

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Am i that guy for wanting a consistent and actually good manabase in a 4c deck? I plan on printing proxies for all the good duals to run in my Atraxa deck (so original duals, shocklands, fetchlands and maybe a set of painlands or fixlands). Also printing foil unhinged basics because why not.

>>50561278
those are basically your options in UB. although you could do self-mill lazav with tons of living death style effects, basically put half your deck onto the battlefield at once

you could also just build monoblack since a zombo tribal will have at least 80% black cards anyway

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/h-e-l-t-e-r-s-k-e-l-t-e-r/

Someone help me I can't stop making bad theme decks

>>50561352
only good in tokens.dec

>>50561491
>proxies
if your playgroup is cool with it then it's fine
>printing foil
in black & white, of course

>>50561491
Nah, wanting a consistent manabase for a 4c/5c deck is fine. You shouldn't be forced to use subpar cards.

>Printing proxies
You're an asshole. If you don't have the cards, and don't plan on getting them, then you don't have those cards. If you want your deck to be better, actually get ahold of the cards like everyone else does.

>>50561515
>getting triggered over proxies
they're not my cup of tea but what's it to you if some biscuit prints a deck?

>>50561568
>>50561515
Both of you shut the fuck up before that retard comes in here and shits up the thread screaming about proxies

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>>50561221
I wanna build this guy some day. I had a friend who used him a lot and it was so fun to play against.

>>50561491
First three I would be okay but aren't painlands and fixlands more accessible in price? Hell I have the UR painland and I am the biggest cheapfucker in /edhg/

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>>50561515
>wanting the game to be pay2win

>>50561491
>>50561515
there's nothing wrong with playing in proxies as long as you aren't using those proxies to power your deck way past your group's power level. you shouldn't proxy sneak attack and emrakul for your xenagos deck if your opponents are playing goofy, low power shit.

however, if someone complains about high-power card proxies in a meta where EVERYONE is playing expensive high-power cards, that person is probably a spike shitter who can't win games without arms-racing his group with expensive staples

>>50561591
>I should be allowed to play this game despite the fact that I don't own any cards, refuse to spend money on it, and showed up with a bunch of pieces of printer paper that I wrote "BLAK LOWTIS" on

>>50561601
>what do you mean you don't have money? Don't you understand?!?! THIS ISN'T A FUCKING GAME KIDDO
Some people are poor and can't afford to play a glorified slot machine to get viable cards.

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>>50561221
>That face when you finally can invest in making a deck based on Emrakul because she finally has a commander legal version.
>I've played Emrakul in modern since I started this game back in Rise of Eldrazi and always was annoyed that my favorite titan was denied to me.
>Waited fucking years for this card
>She even has a cool mindslaver effect which opens the door for a clunky, yet interesting wincondition of taking control of the entire table.
>Building the deck the best I can
>Reading every single colorless card in the game
> figure out cool synergies and ways to ramp and make Emrakul work
>Go to a gaming group
>Mention that I'm building Emrakul as my commander
>They give me a pity look and tell me that I'm doing colorless wrong and that only Kozilek is good
>Tell them I know, I just like Emrakul better as she is my personal favorite creature in MTG
>Get looked at like I'm stupid, repeat the same mantra of Butcher being best

This has happened 3 times with three different game groups, every other color combo it seems building a slightly subpar commander because you like them is seen in a good light, passion for the story or fun or whatnot but try that in Colorless and people seem to act like something is wrong with you... What the fuck gives?

>>50561596
My real problem with it is that usually when people 'proxy' a deck, they have no intention of ever actually getting the cards. I'm not saying 'pay 2 win', but if you aren't even going to bring actual cards, you're not playing Magic. You're sitting next to us and pretending you're playing Magic. If you wanted to come golfing with me but you brought a bunch of tree branches and rocks instead of clubs and balls, and you just swat at the rocks and then say "OH MAN LOOK I GOT A HOLE IN ONE I'M SO GOOD AT GOLF" you'd be a stupid asshole.

>>50561601
unironically yes, you idiot. everyone should be able to play magic if they so choose to, even if they dont have money

>>50561616
Then you don't get to play.

Do you go to your friend's house and scream "I WANNA PLAY IT I WANNA PLAY IT I WANNA PLAY IT" until he lets you play his PS4? Just because you want something doesn't mean you're entitled to it.

>>50561623
>I SHOULD GET WHATEVER I WANT JUST BECAUSE I WANT IT
I bet you shoplift.

>>50561622
They're functionally identical, if i was playing golf and one of my friends brought along a 3d printed golf club that worked just as well then i wouldn't give a shit.

>>50561585
Yeah painlands and fixlands are the ones i can buy, i plan on proxying only over-expensive pieces of cardboard or if i want foils, if they are 1-3 $ it's fine
>>50561515
I'm fine with being an asshole, i just don't want to spend several 100s of $ on cardboard

>>50561619
Technically the correct way to do Colorless is to use 25 Islands and 15 colorless-producing lands, use Arcanis the Omnipotent as your Commander, and then fill in the rest of the deck with the colorless cards you were gonna use.

But if you WANT to use Emrakul, fuck 'em. It's a game,

>>50561622
that is a retarded analogy and you should feel bad for making me read it

if you can look at a card, and you can read the card, and you know what the card does, then why the fuck does it matter whether it was printed by wotc or some random fucko

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>>50561574
sorry

>>50561643
Then you don't get to play.

You're not entitled to a game just because you want to play it. I want to get my dick sucked by Christina Hendricks, but that doesn't mean I'm entitled to that suckjob just because I want it.

>>50561629
If i could make an identical copy of my friends ps4 then fuck yeah i'd do it, there is no functional difference between printed cards and cards printed by wizards.

>>50561646
You can see my club (stick), you can see how I swung, so you know where my ball (rock) would have gone. I should get to play golf for free.

>>50561664
There is, though. One of them is an actual card that people paid for to support their hobby.

The other is a piece of paper you printed out because you feel entitled to be handed whatever you want for free just because you want it, which makes you a fucking child.

>>50561667
This idiot is still doing the golf anology. If you're the kind of guy who likes golf then you are already too far gone to understand people not having money but still wanting to have fun.

>>50561667
you are a moron. i sincerely hope you are being facetious

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>>50561642
>3d printed golf club
i would definitely shit

>>50561667
This analogy is fucking terrible, a stick isn't a golf club and cannot serve the same purpose as a club, a rock isn't a ball, a card printed on cardboard and a card printed on paper have no FUNCTIONAL difference.

>>50561678
>>50561667
>>50561664
>>50561657
>>50561646
>>50561643
>>50561642
>>50561635
>>50561629
>>50561623
>>50561622
>>50561616
>>50561601
>>50561596
>>50561591
Look at what you motherfuckers did

>>50561629
Look, you're fucking retarded. Proxies were allowed at vintage events for cards on the reserved list, until someone got a hateboner for them. Your hateboner eclipses theirs, you're advocating for people to not play a game which could benefit from an increase of the player base, just because they don't have the money to play with cards that exceed a certain pricetag.

I personally don't play with proxies because I hate the look, but I feel that if you can't afford a card that's crucial to the deck you should be allowed to proxy it until you have to play with a group of colossal factors like yourself.

>>50561692
And a 'proxy' isn't a card. It's you sitting NEXT to a game of Magic and pretending.

>>50561678
Oh fuck off dude, the market isn't providing a price i find acceptable, i have no obligation to support business's that fail to accomadate me, i am the consumer, i have sovereignty and damn fucking right i'm going to use it.

>>50561702
>Proxies were allowed at vintage events
Unsanctioned ones. And using a dead joke of a format to justify your entitlement is bullshit.

You're not "increasing the player base" with proxies, because PRETENDING TO OWN MAGIC CARDS DOES NOT SUPPORT THE FUCKING GAME.

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>>50561696
sorry

>>50561581
I always wanted to make a voltron with this guy.

>>50561709
>Oh fuck off dude, the market isn't providing a price i find acceptable
then you don't get to have that.

I don't find 400 dollars for a PS4 'acceptable', that doesn't mean I can just go kick in the glass case at Target and take one because I want it. You're not entitled to own something just because you want to.

>>50561703
just like you're sitting here pretending to be having an argument, even though you're actually just a retard spouting random analogies that make no sense

>>50561702
Colossal faggots*

Fuck my autocorrect

>>50561716
inconsistent

>>50561678
The only thing you support by buying singles is the secondary market, wotc already got his money for those cards. If you say i'm not supporting my LGS i have you know i'm buying a bunch of foils from them to strip and print on.

>>50561581
I like this guy until my friend played him and milled my stonehoof chieftain and won the game with his trample, hexproof, indestructible general.

>>50561721
how is stealing something and creating something yourself anywhere the same

if i could build a ps4 that can run ps4 games for free, then yeah, i think i would rather try my hand at building one instead. if the company behind the cards can't provide a reasonable incentive to spend 50 dollars on a piece of cardboard that has some text on it, then the company has fucked up, not me

>>50561711
Except the people I play with that use proxies actually buy cards they can afford and play in events with real decks.

Also commander is an unsanctioned format, so I can use vintage to prove my point, regardless of the fact that it's on it last limb.

>>50561733
And if nobody buys from the secondary market because everyone just plays pretend with proxies, why the fuck would anyone ever buy packs?

>>50561721
Retard if i wanted a ps4 and couldn't afford one and had a much more viable method to build a ps4 for much cheaper myself i would do it, there is some skill needed to create a ps4 that i cannot do which the market provides, the fact is that printing cards takes wizards no more effort than it does for me to print cards, and i'm not going to play a shitty fucking slot machine or pay out the nose to get something i could easily produce myself.

>>50561741
Because making a proxy is stealing. You're stealing the IP of a company and using it because you feel entitled to have access to it simply because you want it. It's the same as 3D printing a mini, or pirating a game. You're not 'stealing' a physical object, but you're absolutely stealing intellectual property because you feel like you're entitled access to it simply because you want it, and you shouldn't have to pay money for it.

>>50561759
And it takes no 'effort' to make a videogame available on Steam, or to produce discs and send them out. But it still took time and effort to design the game itself, and if you go "I GET THIS BECAUSE I WANT IT" you're a fucking dick who feels entitled to the fruits of someone else's labors, but refuses to support that creator.

>>50561749
So now you've resorted to the slippery slope fallacy. You assume if we let a guy proxy his expensive cards, soon everyone will proxy everything. Except they never will, and to think so proves your ignorance and stubborness

>>50561733
To be fair, a stable secondary market encourages people to buy boxes because they know that their collection will retain value. Nobody would spend hundreds of dollars on cardboard that can be reprinted for a fraction of the cost.

Personally I wish mtg was more like netrunner or something with non-random sets. Or even just more official proxies like the collector's edition way back when.

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Derevi stax person here. Fun is overrated. Crit my deck pls

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-12-16-stax-on-stax/

>>50561783
I don't see how that's slippery slope.

"I'm proxying this card because I should get to play with it just for wanting to". Why the fuck would that person only proxy SOME cards? It's not a huge leap of logic for someone who feels entitled to something just because they want it to decide "Fuck it, why should I ever actually buy cards? I can just proxy all of them."

>>50561798
>"I'm proxying this card because I should get to play with it just for wanting to"
No you fucking retard it's "I'm proxying this card because the cost for it is considered impractical by me and the community"

>>50561619
Maybe the next time someone brings it up tell them in your best villain's plot all coming together voice "Good, keep thinking that"

>>50561761
but it's a secondary market at that point

if wotc wants to sell me a damnation, sure, i'll buy one from them. but they aren't selling any at the oment. and i don't want to support the secondary market because that's basically stealing, just like buying used games in gamestop. the only option left is to make the product myself

>>50561729
That's what I figured. That being said all my decks are super casual so it might be kinda fun to have a level of randomness.

>>50561798
Because the rest of the community wouldn't be okay with that.

If someone came to me and started playing a full proxy rendition of the 4000 dollar Yidris storm deck, I'd tell him to fuck off. But if he came with just the dual lands and the other 80+ dollar cards proxied, I'd consider playing. And I know that I'm not the only person that will not play against full proxied decks.

As long as there's a playgroup telling a player to not be a cunt, he usually won't be, and that's with any game that requires social interaction, not just magic.

Can everyone just shut the fuck up about proxies and stop jerking off on each others faces

>>50561591
>Implying that you have to buy a 4-5 color land base to win
Bitch, my Teferi, Temporal Archmage deck will wipe the floor with your "pay to win" bullshit. It's shut down deck worth thousands.

>>50561616
>"I cant afford a 5 color landbase"

Then stop whining and cheating and play mono or dual color. I was a poor fag in college and could barely commit money for any cards because of rent and living costs so instead of whining or cheating to make fake cards I went mono Blue with the Teferi precon deck and spent what little money I could spend on cards buying good shit instead of blowing it on landbases.

I started with little things, built sea monsters.dec and worked my way up, found some Stax cards, worked on buying just good utility cards and had EASILY one of the strongest decks on campus. And the deck was pretty much a precon with $70 of extra rares thrown into it over a year.

Anyone saying Commander is "Too Expensive" and have to proxy are just too lazy to work in their limitations.


>>50561702
>but I feel that if you can't afford a card that's crucial to the deck you should be allowed to proxy it

If you cant afford the card, don't build that deck? Its a format with over 500 different generals, if you cant get the card to play one specific deck just play something else. I always wanted to play color Scion of the Ur Dragon, but I wont spend $2000 on the duel lands alone. So I didn't build it, done and done.

>>50561822
"Intellectual Property stops after you open the booster pack"

kek This guy >>50561761 is flat out right, in every way. There is no case where making a proxy of a card, whose design and IP is owned by another, isn't stealing, especially because you are using it to profit yourself.

>>50561783

He may be slippery sloping, but he isn't arguing stealing is OK as long as "You REALLY don't wanna spend money" like you guys are. Seriously...

Here's my current list anyway.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/yidris-current/

Do I need to explain how disgusting palinchron is when it gains cascade? Double cascade even.

I'm considering cutting it because it's kind of fuqqing my group.

Consuming Aberration is extremely underrated.

Repost from last thread.

>come into /edh/
>wow thread's pretty big for how recent it is
>I hope it's good discussi-

for fucks sake guys

Post about cards you auto include in all decks or decks of a given color

>>50561925
return to dust in white
boros charm in boros
hedron archive in everything

>>50561947
wait, one more
land tax in white

>>50561914
>I was a poor fag in college and could barely commit money for any cards because of rent and living costs so instead of whining or cheating to make fake cards I went mono Blue with the Teferi precon deck and spent what little money I could spend on cards buying good shit instead of blowing it on landbases.

so basically what you're saying is, you were a level 1 edh deckbuilder in college, and you're still one today? except you just have more money?

>EASILY one of the strongest decks on campus

wow dude good job you made a deck that wins in a format where winning is irrelevant

>>50561914
Explain how printing a magic card onto printer paper for use in a nonsanctioned format is the same as pirating overwatch, for example.

One is blatant stealing and one isnt, go ahead and figure that out.1

>>50561925
For black
>Phyrexian Arena
>Phyrexian Etchings
>Mutilate

Blue
>Invoke Prejudice
>Propaganda
>Consecration Sphinx

Red
>Implying Red

Green
>Sylvan library
>Exploration
>Kodama's Reach

White
>Final Judegment
>Reverse Damage
>Ghostly Prison

Any deck
>Sol Ring
>Thran Dynamo
>Scroll Rack

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>>50561925
I don't think I've ever built a white deck without Sun Titan

>>50561914
>if you can't afford that card, don't build that deck?

What about if I want to build the deck, but don't want to spend money on a deck I may hate playing and wouldn't know if I would or not until I sit down and play it with people?

Since we are talking about Proxies and legit cards... Here are two scenarios I'm curious about.

I have a friend who runs Gaea's Cradle in his Rhys deck and uses the Gold Bordered version from the World Champion's Set.

He takes the gold border Cradle out when we have tournaments, as they aren't tournament legal, but in normal games no one really minds.

What are your thoughts on the Gold Bordered cards? Fine for use or terrible proxy?

Second question is what about the situation where someone has 6 decks, but only one of a card like Mana Vault, so he has proxies of Mana vault in 5 of his decks and the 6th one has the actual vault, because he doesn't want to constantly have to swap sleeves each time he changes decks. What are the opinions on this scenario?

>>50561991
Don't forget demonic tutor for black.

>>50562015
I'm fine with both scenarios. Second one could be avoided with same color of sleeves for all decks but that could be a matter of taste.

>>50561809
"And yet I feel entitled to own it"

>>50562024
knew I forgot something.

>>50561822
And if nobody is BUYING from the secondary market, it dies.

And if there's no secondary market, booster sales shrink. Who would pay 4 dollars for a pack that's guaranteed to contain less than 4 dollars of cards? Why would you buy a pack when you could just print whatever cards you need? No secondary market kills a CCG.

>>50562015
I'm personally okay with both situations, the first because cradle is pricey and they can reprint it but choose not to, and the second because they physically own the card.

>>50562033
entitled!! entitled!!! oogga booga!!!

>>50561947
>Hedron Archive in anything
Interesting! Do you find that it hits a better 'sweet spot' than Mind Stone and Dreamstone Hedron?

>>50562058
I'd run all three depending on the deck.

>>50561977
They're both stealing.

You're saying "I am going to obtain the intellectual property of someone else without paying for it". Someone had to design the set that card came in, the card itself, the mechanics, the art, the setting. Someone had to design Overwatch, had to come up with the concepts, draw up concept ART, model and animate the characters, all that stuff.

In both cases, you've decided that you want the fruit of their labors, but that they don't deserve to be paid for it, so you're just gonna take it.

>>50561581
I am switching my Phenax to Lazav and I am hoping it will be a much more relevant deck at my kitchen table multiplayer games.

>>50562015
I frown on gold-bordered cards if that's the only one they own, because I just treat them as good-looking proxies.

If someone actually OWNS a card and is "proxying" it across their decks to save time and effort, I don't give a single flying fuck because they actually own the fucking card. If someone was using a gold bordered Cradle because their 'real' one is in their Legacy deck, go for it. If it's because they want a Cradle for their deck but don't want to pay for it, no, that's a Forest.

>>50562058
IIRC dreamstone is more expensive and I don't want to sacrifice it as much, while mind stone doesn't do as much. Hedron Archive is more playable IMO.

>>50562047
en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.


>"I should get to play with whatever cards I want just because I want them" somehow isn't 'believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges'
k

>>50562081
Except printing a proxy of a card doesn't take money from wizards, especially if the set is out of print you massive fucking idiot.

>>50562107
Right- they're all sort of a lineup. Hedron Archive is just 2 Mind Stones stapled together, and Dreamstone Hedron is 3 Mind Stones. I can see your argument, though; Mind Stone is an okay mana rock for accel (if not fixing), where Dreamstone Hedron costs a lot and doesn't ramp super well (you'd rather have Gilded Lotus in any non-colorless deck, probably), and unless you can easily recur it you're not likely to spend 9 mana to draw 3 cards outside of mono-white.

>>50562043
Not to mention the fact it would be literally impossible to get older cards, as the prints for the boosters have ended way long ago.

>>50562043
so i have to give someone 200 bucks for an og dual land, a card that i know will NEVER be printed again, just because of some metaphysical concept that the higher demand of og dual lands may or may not increase booster sales in some way?

also, wotc itself puts all their cards online for everyone to see. imagine if the same was done with movies. would it be stealing to download those movies and put them on dvds for personal use?

>>50562105
What's the story behind the gold-bordered cards anyway, why would Wizards print stuff you can't play with?

>>50562143
Sure it does. If you proxy a card, then that's a REAL copy you didn't buy, or a real pack you didn't open.

If enough people are proxying instead of buying product, it hurts Wizards.

>>50562153
>so i have to give someone 200 bucks for an og dual land
If you want to use one in a Magic game, yes. You do not get to utilize someone else's intellectual property for free just because you want it.

>>50562153
That's what these idiots are trying to tell us.

>>50562156
The original one was Collector's Edition. It was basically just a thing for... well, collecting. You could buy one and be the 'owner' of a full set of Alpha, albeit one that's not legal for tournaments. That way people could say "Look at me, I have the Power 9!" and maybe play them in casual games, but it didn't affect tournaments.

>>50562156
So chumps could play with wold series decks back in the day for a fraction of the cost. They just aren't legal in anything official really.

Yea, wizards used to be based. Who knew.

>>50561991
>Final Judgment
It's straight up worse compared to Wrath. It's much cheaper, but anecdotal evidence says that regen is somewhat common and would not risk it.

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>>50562015
Why doesn't he just take the mana vault out and put it into whatever deck he's running at the time? I do that with my swords, top, scroll rack, and vault

>>50562173
>You do not get to utilize someone else's intellectual property for free just because you want it.

according to whom? is it illegal in your country?

>>50562191
You're confusing Final Judgment with Day of Judgment.

Day can be useful in place of Wrath if you plan on running a lot of regenerators yourself so you can keep them alive through your own wrath, but generally Wrath is better, yeah.

Final Judgement costs 6 and exiles everything. Very strong.

>>50562195
Because it can be really frustrating to move cards around every single game, and if he's having to desleeve and resleeve it over and over it's gonna cause wear on the card.

>>50562200
...according to United States IP laws?

>>50562212
>put it in a perfect fit sleeve
>or double sleeve all your decks
honestly is it that much work to take one or four cards in and out before playing

also what's frustrating about taking an extra minute to fiddle your expensive cardboard in and out of your decks.

>>50562218
US has some weird laws i guess

can you quote me the exact law that says that you can't print stuff that WotC puts online for everyone to see? why don't they put a copyright claim on their own website?

>>50562231
If you just put one card in your deck into a perfect fit, and the rest aren't, that's cheating.

And even if it's double-sleeved, you're gonna cause wear on the card by resleeving it constantly, not to mention you'll cause extra wear on that specific sleeve in each deck. There's a reason a lot of people bring extra DFCs to tournaments, and that's because taking the card out and putting it back in over and over (even double-sleeved) causes damage to the card and to the sleeve.

>>50562162
Okay so let's use your brain for a moment, shall we?

Does wizards sell any singles? If the answer is no, then we can continue. If you think it's yes, hang yourself or drink bleach.

Question 2:
Is the card currently not being printed by wizards of the coast in any of their booster pack sets or supplementary sets? If no, they aren't losing money, and the secondary market is losing some if the person doesnt intend to ever buy it. If yes, you MAY have a case.

Third:
Is the player hoping to get a physical copy of the card, or using this proxy to test to see if they want the card? If the answer is yes, shut the fuck up and let them test it for a few weeks tops. If the answer is no, finish the current game if you are in one without causing an arguement or trying to tell him "it's not real, you lose," or any other pathetic, immature arguement, then refuse to play him until he removes it.

Can your tiny mind comprehend those three questions?

>>50562236
I can't quote you the exact law because I'm not a lawyer.

And they don't put a copyright claim on their website because there's trademarks on every single Magic card, printed directly on it.

I was thinking of putting together an akiri and silas deck, do you think this looks alright?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-12-16-akiri-and-silas/

>>50562259
>Does Wizards sell any singles?
Directly? No. But the secondary market drives the sale of sealed product, and you fucking know it. If there was no value in singles, who would fucking buy boosters?

>>50562277
I don't know, people wanting to play the fucking game?

There's formats besides constructed anon.

>>50561794
Fuck off

>>50562267
>>I can't quote you the exact law because I'm not a lawyer.

so you don't know what you're talking about? i say there is no law against printing magic cards for personal use. you are saying there is. the burden of proof lies with you, friend

>>50562277
Also you failed to address the second and third points.

>>50561971
>Someone posts that EDH is "Pay to Win" and so people need to proxy
>Bring up that I made a strong deck on a budget as a counter point to that, saying that there are more affordable options
>"Winning doesn't matter because its irrelevant"
> Wants to Proxy because they want their deck to perform better

Your an idiot, if winning "is irrelevant" then why bother proxying ever? If it doesn't matter who wins then you don't NEED the expensive cards, and thus don't need to proxy problem solved!

Good job anon.

>>50561977
"One is blatant stealing and one isn't"
No, both are ACTUALLY stealing. Go read a book on copywrite and stop being a cuck.

>>50562143
Yes it does, your an actual idiot. Read anything about scarcity in a market, its secondary markets and the dangers of counterfeiting.

>>50562008
Where does your buyers trepidation allow IP theft anon? Why does your lack of knowledge about your possible lack of enjoyment allow you to by pass a monetary barrier? You aren't just cheating Wizards but also others who have acquired the good, in this case the card, before you.

This isn't rocket science here, its law. Your friends can let you proxy whatever you want, but your still stealing IP and that is that. If anyone called you on it your feelings don't change how law works.

>>50562259
>Question 2
Same as before. No secondary market hurts Wizards directly. Hell, very few CONSUMERS buy packs straight from Wizards, they buy them from retailers who bought from distributors who bought from Wizards. But if I could print whatever card I wanted, why would I buy packs? Why pay 4 dollars for a pack and HOPE to get a specific card I need (and be saddled with 14 worthless cards I don't need even if I'm lucky), when I can just spend a fraction of that printing out a whole deck? If nobody's buying boosters from stores, why would stores buy from distributors? If distributors can't sell boxes to stores, why would they buy from Wizards? If my only options for an old card are to track down an old pack or just print the card, I'd print it. And if stores know that they're not likely to sell product if it sits on their shelves, THEY WOULDN'T BUY ANY.

>Question 3
Proxying to test before you buy it is a whole different animal from "I'm proxying this card that I have no intention to ever actually obtain".

>>50562293
Sure, there's Limited, but a nonzero amount of Limited's appeal is that your cards are useful after the event. If every draft was just 12 bucks down the drain and a handful of kindling, do you really think it'd be a popular format? Hell, people would just proxy cubes.

>>50562310
This

>>50562310
I can't quote you the exact federal statute on homicide, but I still know it's not fucking legal to kill someone.

>>50562310
Well, there's laws against pirating media you don't own even if it's just for 'personal use'. I'd imagine those apply here, too.

>>50561914
You should probably consider suicide or severely maiming yourself with how much that severe mental disability affects your quality of life.

>>50562207
Oh! My mistake. I also like Hallowed Burial and Terminus really much, but terminus doesn't seem as good, besides the Miracle trickery. Most of the time it has come at a wrong time, so I rarely cast it at Miracle cost.

>>50562368
>HURRRRR I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU SO YOU'RE A RETARD AND YOU SHOULD KILL YOURSELF

>>50562323
>Your an idiot, if winning "is irrelevant" then why bother proxying ever? If it doesn't matter who wins then you don't NEED the expensive cards, and thus don't need to proxy problem solved!

because some cards that are fun can also be pretty expensive, like sneak attack, sheoldred the whispering one and avacyn? note that cards like sheoldred aren't even very good for "competitive edh"

>>50562323
>>50562324
I'm assuming you're both different people.

I'm against proxying things you never have the intent of obtaining, but I feel that it's a victimless crime to print a gaea's cradle on to some copy paper and use it until you can afford a real one.

Can we just agree that as long as the guy isn't being an asshole about it, it's not a fucking issue? Let some random guy proxy a 5 color land base until he gets his Christmas bonus. Then if he gets his bonus and doesn't have the real cards in the new year, and says he decided not to get them, rip the fucking sheets of paper and tell him to stop being a cunt.

>>50562385
I'd run Burial over Terminus unless you can manipulate the Miracle in at least a few different and reliable ways.

Final Judgment is pretty much "FUCK YOU" because not many decks run ways to get shit out of exile, and I used to rank it slightly below Hallowed Burial for not being a long-term answer to Commanders, but I put it just a little above Burial now. They both duck death triggers and reanimation effects, but Burial doesn't get rid of things 'for good'.

>>50562391
That really helps your case.

>>50562403
On a small scale, it's a victimless crime, and the guy is just an asshole, I agree. I'm more frustrated by the principle of the thing, and the fact that the more people that 'justify' proxying, the worse it gets.

And a lot of it is just frustration with entitlement. I don't like my argument to sound like "pay 2 win" but I actually bought my cards. I bought packs, I bought singles, I traded for them, whatever; I contributed to supporting the company that MAKES this game, because I actually like it and want it to continue. When someone rolls up with a bunch of black-and-white slips of paper shoved in front of basic Plains, I get pissy because he's saying "I should get to enjoy this game without supporting it, too". To me, that's no different than him just stealing shit out of people's binders, or walking out of Walmart with a few boosters in his shorts.

>>50562403
>rip the fucking sheets of paper
that's both morally and legally more damnable than printing proxies btw

>>50562401
>A 17 dollar card is 'pretty expensive'

Anyway, his point was that you absolutely can build a competitive deck on a budget, so the "I have to proxy so I can win!" argument is a bad one.

>>50562403
Also, I'm >>50562428 and I am 100% okay with people proxying cards to test them, or proxying "for now" so they can enjoy the deck until their payday so they can pick up the cards, or because the cards are in the mail, or whatever. If it's a short term thing, or a convenience thing (so you don't have to move your one Bayou between all your BGx decks every game), go for it. If it's "I want to play Magic without actually owning Magic cards", or "I never intend to actually obtain this card", fuck off.

>>50562436
17 dollars is a pretty crazy amount of money for a card. if you get 15 cards out of a pack that costs 4 bucks, meaning 1 card costs 0,2667 dollars, that's like a 6300% markup

>>50562454
If you consider 17 dollars to be a 'crazy amount of money' for a card, you need to find a new hobby.

>>50562428
Okay, that's where the divide's been.

I agree for the most part. If the guy'said a seasoned player, and he rolls up with a proxy deck and says "hey I'm buying this legacy deck in a few weeks and I need to test it to see if I really want to," I'd have a much different opinion of someone who bought a commander precon, proxied all the expensive duals he needs, and then says "well you guys have all these, why should I not be on an even playing field?"

Put some investment into the hobby, and as long as you intend to keep investing into it, go ahead and proxy to make up your mind.

>>50562454
>Meaning 1 card costs 0,2667 dollars
Lemme guess: You're an insurance adjuster.

>>50562432
I'm just saying the extreme to prove a point. You can probably just tell him to fuck off.

>>50562474
>Put some investment into the hobby
That's really the line for me. I don't mind the "proxy to test it" angle, because that's someone just making sure they don't blow 40 dollars on a card that doesn't play how they hoped it would. But the people who proxy without ever intending to obtain the card are wanting to enjoy the hobby without investing into it, and that's really frustrating to see when you ARE invested into the hobby.

>>50562324

"Proxying to test before you buy it is a whole different animal from "I'm proxying this card that I have no intention to ever actually obtain"

I'll chime in here and way that this really IS a different issue then what started this, which is the idea that a card is too expensive, so a player ONLY proxies the card, with no intention to buy it in the future.

We are NOT talking about proxying to "test a deck" as that carries with it the intent to buy and is an aspect Wizards itself has endorsed in the past, because it increased chance of purchase.

We are talking about people creating proxies to avoid buying the real product entirely, mainly because they cant, or don't want, to afford it.

>>50562368
kek, stay mad

>>50562401
Yeah and? Its expensive... if you cant afford it you don't use it... Its almost like that's how money and a hobby works...

>>50562403
As I say earlier, Testing is entirely different from proxying to avoid an inconvenient purchase and it comes down to the playgroup.

>>50562428
There's nothing to justify with proxying because there is nothing illegal about it. There is no evidence it effects WotC sales. They are completely okay with proxying at FNM. They don't prosecute sites that make proxying extremely easy because there is no legal precedent for proxying being copyright infringement. There is nothing illegal about proxying.

Of course it's a dick move to do it without the intention of buying the card or to power your deck beyond what your meta can afford but being a dick isn't illegal. Can we stop this asinine discussion now?

Back on track:

Feel free to critique and mock my terrible new Thrax deck:

>>50561504

>>50562494
>>50562486
I love how my failure to fully read the discussion put me on the side opposing you two when I actually agree with you, for the most part at least.

>>50562502
>There's nothing illegal about it
[citation needed]

>there is no evidence it effects WOTC sales
[citation needed]

>They are completely okay with proxying at FNM
[citaiton needed]

>>50562502
>They are completely okay with proxying at FNM
But that's not remotely correct. It is 100% not allowed to proxy ANY cards at a sanctioned event. If you bring a 'proxy' to an FNM, it will be treated like a counterfeit card, and you will be asked to replace it with the real thing.

>>50562469
well 2000 dollars for a 2011 dodge caravan is quite cheap, but 30 dollars for a piece of bread is quite high. it's all quite relative when you consider this unique concept called "value".

to put this into mtg terms, you wouldn't think 5 mana for a 2/2 bear would be good value, so you would instead cast rite of replication (printer) on your opponents emrakul (mtg card) to create 5 emrakuls (proxies)

>>50562502
>Of course it's a dick move to do it without the intention of buying the card or to power your deck beyond what your meta can afford

hahahaha

no

>>50562411
True, I agree. I just feel that tuck rule was a bad addition. Only reason I don't run Final Judgment that much is because I only own a single copy

>>50562515
>>>There's nothing illegal about it
>[citation needed]
[citation needed]

burden of proof, idiot

My play group allows Proxies for testing and we always view those games as "Games that don't really count", because there were proxies on the table.

No one is upset if you want to try out and want to play Serra's Sanctum in your Daxos deck to see if its impact is worth the $75 investment, but you sure as hell aren't gloating or calling it a real win when you win with it. You need to own the card to really "count", we are just happy to help you test out a card that, If you like it and show that you actually are going to get it then we expect you to stop using the proxy until you get the physical copy, the testing is done, its no longer needed.

So basically, if people aren't assholes it works out.

>>50562502
Nice B8 M8t

>>50562300
Dont like stax huh. keep crying about 75% biiiiitch

>>50562614
>My play group allows Proxies
We figured that you get 1 proxy for each $5 the card costs.
A lot of people have a favorite colors so buying the staple for their colors and spreading the love with proxy has really let us grow our number of decks.
Still we don't abuse it. I don't use my Senseis in everydeck just like my friend doesn't have an Elesh norn in all of his.

>>50562525
At a GP that is the case but they give LGSs the ability to decide their own proxy policy precisely due to vintage and legacy. I invite you to read over the rules and regulations for FNM that WotC mandates of their stores and there is nothing about proxies in there.

>>50562515
You see when someone says there isn't evidence that's up to the yaysayers to provide the evidence. Good luck finding something that doesn't exist.

>>50562614
>it's considered bait if I don't like the facts presented

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who here /enlightened/?

>>50562710
I wish this meme would die.

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does this work with zada?

>>50562710
>posting ancient stale memes
>being enlightened
Ok kid

>>50562745
Why wouldn't it? You're gonna end up with no board, but yes, it works the way you think it does

>>50562731
honestly it's just me still posting it.. would you take your child off life support?

>>50562710
>>50562731
>>50562779
i regret being behind the enlightenment pyramid

it has now been adopted by chaosfags to excuse their dumb level 2 decks. real enlightenment stems from pain, not the pursuit of fun.

>>50562818
I build my decks to cause as much frustration and desperation as possible to my opponents, my fun is just a by-product.

>>50562797
with no boards or library.

UR Lab Maniac?

>>50562873
so would you draw cards for each creature or would you draw the card for zada and deal that much damage to all your creatures?

>>50562657
>They give LGS the ability
No. They fucking don't.

You 100% CANNOT use proxies in a sanctioned event, period. A store can run a proxy-allowed event if they want (be it Vintage or Legacy or Standard or whatever) but it CANNOT be sanctioned.

>>50562873
Well, it depends on the creatures you have on board at the time. Unless you exile most of your library the first time, you're probably winning on your next upkeep.
I would run Words of War with it though.

>>50562745
It sure does.

Once.

The Epic copies aren't cast, so they wouldn't trigger Zada.

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>>50561925

>>50562923
What?
You're exiling part of your library and dealing damage according to first exiled nonland card to zada and the same thing happens with each other creature you control

>>50562945
That'd be bad, but kinda funny.

>>50562657
>I invite you to read over the rules and regulations for FNM that WotC mandates of their stores and there is nothing about proxies in there

Hi! I'm afraid you're wrong about that. FNM is a sanctioned event, and is thus subject to the rules of the WPN. Specifically, as a sanctioned event, we apply the Magic Tournament Rules, or MTR, to it.

MTR 3.4 defines proxy cards as cards created by the Head Judge to temporarily replace Authorized Game Cards that become damaged beyond playability during the event. It also says that players may not make their own proxies, and that any proxy issued by a Head Judge is valid for that event only.

An Authorized Game Card is defined in MTR 3.3 as a card that is genuine and published by Wizards of the Coast (among other criteria, but that's the main one here), and that anything that is NOT an Authorized Game Card are prohibited in all sanctioned tournaments.

"Any card that does not meet the above criteria, including homemade proxies, may not be used in a tournament that is sanctioned by a WPN store. While some events exist that allow proxies (usually for Vintage, Legacy and Commander events), those events must not be run as a sanctioned event with WER reporting software." is direct from the Judge-maintained Rules Blog, which contains annotations (such as this!) for every paragraph of the IPG, MTR, and JAR.

>>50562872
a truly enlightened deckbuilder derives no enjoyment from playing his deck. it is as painful for him as it is for everyone else in the group. as counterintuitive as this might seem, it is the logical conclusion and ending point for a player's deckbuilding journey. first you'll try to win. then you'll try to have fun. then you'll realize that others need to have fun too. but then you realize that your friends are still shitty level 1 or 2 deckbuilders who have no qualms about ruining games for others just to get their kicks. this is when you realize that there is no point in making things fun for level 1 or 2 players. from that pain begins the ascension to levels 4 and 5

>>50562923
>Draw cards
What about this makes you think you're drawing cards?

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>tfw want to turn value frog deck into memeoplasm
>tfw no job

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>tfw look up some tutors
>see this
>see the price of this

Why the fuck is it so expensive? just because it's old?

>>50562960
this card has a 90% winrate for me in 2v2 and more than 50% otherwise. Ruining the person who goes after you really helps win.

>>50563032
pretty much

>>50562943
Read the damn rules. There is 0 reference to proxies in them. Ask a head judge. They will all corroborate that at a FNM sanctioned event has NO WOTC MANDATE about proxies. Vintage wouldn't even be able to be played as a sanctioned event because literally every player proxies since then don't want to shuffle a $20,000 investment. Show me rulings that prove me wrong or drop it.

>>50561352
I play it in prossh as something to do with lots of tokens

>>50562998
Afterward comes level 6, ascended. Those people quit MtG

>>50561721
>then you don't get to have that
No, he has the option of black markets when white markets fail him. This is the entire reason that black markets exist, after all.

>>50561925
White: Oblivion Ring
Green: Cultivate
Blue: Negate
Red: Don't actually have one
Black: Murder

>>50563249
>>Red: Don't actually have one
scrambleverse

>>50563133
100.2 you dipshit. Or does "traditional Magic cards" allow proxies in your world? You sound like a guy from a video I saw a bit back who was claiming he could split his Melek deck into two piles and reveal the top card of each because there was no rule against it when he was factually wrong.

>>50563249
Oblivion Ring is worse than the one printed last year that hits the table, Cultivate is correct, red is Blasphemous Act, Negate is trash what the shit, and Murder is also awful.

>>50563258
I mean I don't actually have any red edh decks (Simic, Dimir and Mono White). Scrambleverse seems like an excellent meme though.

>>50561925
Vampiric tutor, enlightened tutor, mystical tutor.

Elesh Norn, because she is one of my favorite creatures

>>50563308
>the one printed last year that hits the table
huh? what are you referring to?

>>50563249
>negate

Why not just counterspell?

>>50563323
Oh, Quarantine Field. I just don't happen to own any copies and own many O Rings

>>50563323
If you don't even know Grasp of Fate but feel compelled to give an opinion on the best cards in the format, you're actually a humongous faggot.

>>50563360
>Grasp of Fate
I'm not listing the best, just the ones I like to use. Which was the question. calm down dude

>>50563376
Man your decks must be bad LEL.

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>>50563308
>Negate is trash
>a card that counters 5/7 card types
>counters the majority of cards that U had a problem removing if they hit the table

You should probably take your self out with the trash.

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wow.... simply epic...

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>>50561619
Oh anon, I feel you. As someone who built og ulamog and got told EVERY time I played the deck that "butcher is better™", let me just warn you that these edh sheeple you find at your lgs have been under the impression for a long, long time that between butcher and gyre, butcher was better. This will be law forever, regardless how much testing hunger, distortion, and promised get. That's just how these people are.

I've tried all of the titans, (including aeon for a game houseruled legal for shits n giggles) and I realized that these decks are missing something not even butcher could deliver.

Just to stop hearing the "butcher is better™" meme, I took out 20 of the lands, replaced them with islands, and swapped the commander to jin-gitaxias core auger. The deck has only 1 colored spell (the commander) and it catches everyone off because they don't expect it. The deck is basically the same, still has all titans in 99 (apart from aeon obv) and is incredibly fun and refreshing to pilot

>>50563454
So, this is Cruel Suggestion?

Why the fuck are there two active threads? Who the fuck made the thread so early? This isn't complicated, guys.

>>50563483

Nice.

>>50563133
>Read the damn rules
I have! I actually quoted the MTR here >>50562993 . The Magic Tournament Rules, used at any sanctioned event, define what an Authorized card is, and proxies aren't among them.

As for "ask any Head Judge", I myself am a Level 2 Judge, and I can point you to an article on the Mothership explaining that proxies are not permitted at -any- sanctioned Magic event:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/proxies-policy-and-communication-2016-01-14

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Would you let me run this custom card? I'm thinking about printing a proxy

>>50563541
Hey judge quick question, can a creature with exploit exploit itself when it enters?

Say sidisi, undead visier, for example.

>>50563640

This is my dream commander, thinking of proxying it up. Thoughts?

"Gi-ji, the finisher"
(1)R
Legendary creature - goblin jellyfish
0/1
When you cast Gi-ji, the finisher, you win the game.

>>50561500
Yea but rooftop storm is way too good in my opinion

This fucking thread

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>>50563650
Absolutely. Exploit is just a trigger that means "When this creature enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice a creature". It doesn't say 'another', so you're free to sac an Exploit creature to itself.

More importantly, doing so will still trigger a "When ~ exploits a creature" ON that creature.

>>50563677
>Legendary Creature ... Jellyfish
I like your funny words, magic man

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can someone post that sexy chandra alter? it would really improve the thread.

>>50563704
I warned you. I fucking warned you all, clear back here >>50561574

I warned you and none of you listened

Most of my decks have gotten extremely spikey, to the point I'm being focused out of games early, so I'm throwing together Gisa and Geralf zombie tribal for a more casual deck to play with certain groups. Anybody have any interesting tech pieces for them besides just all the zombos?

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>>50563740
I gotchu

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This is my dream commander. I'm thinking of proxying it up, but apparently proxies are frowned upon?

How do you guys feel about unglued cards? What about unhinged?

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>>50563795

Do you guys allow gold borders at your table?

>>50563942

No antes and no damaging/destroying cards. Besides that, pretty much everything is fine.

>>50561581
Here's a list for my Lazav deck:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lazav-graveyard-shenanigans/

It doesn't rely that much on Lazav as a commander but he offers a lot of potential if you happen to hit good cards with your mills. Cards like Bonehoard and Nighthowler can make for surprising commander damage victories, especially if you can Rogue's Passage on the same turn.

>>50563992
yes why would I care if their cards aren't 100% real? It's a casual format.

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How do I make monowhite work?

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>>50563541
I'm sorry, judge. I'm pretty sure that several LGSs in my area are violating that rule and I read the rules you quoted and didn't know the stipulations for issuing them. Stores I attend have players show decks, point out proxies and real cards they are standing in for, and then let them start.

Nonetheless, that article ends the proxy discussion because it says they will not police proxies for personal use which is defined by non-sanction use.

>>50564192
You don't make monowhite work.

>>50563942
I am fine with people making official Blacker Lotus proxies.

>>50564192
You need to dedicate several sleepless nights to theorycrafting

You need to be intensely religious,and, over all else,

You need money

>>50564192
You don't.

>>50564285
>You need money
For what? Land Tax and a bunch of rocks?

>>50564204
If your local stores are allowing proxies during sanctioned events, I'd advise you to let them know they should stop. If WPN found out about that, they'd likely invalidate most (if not all) of their past events, revoke their ability to sanction future ones, and get them in a heap-big pile of trouble.

>>50561352
It's decent. ETB dorks can substitute as the fodder if you're light on tokens.

>>50561491
>printing foil unhinged basics because why not.
Absolutely disgusting.

is Ember Swallower lit in a landfall deck?

>>50564192
well of lost dreams

>>50564204
>Nonetheless, that article ends the proxy discussion because it says they will not police proxies for personal use which is defined by non-sanction use.

No, it doesn't say that at all...

"Wizards of the Coast has no desire to police playtest cards made for personal, non-commercial use, even if that usage takes place in a store."

They don't care about PLAYTEST cards, and specifically describe them and what they are talking about.

"A playtest card is most commonly a basic land with the name of a different card written on it with a marker. Playtest cards aren't trying to be reproductions of real Magic cards; they don't have official art and they wouldn't pass even as the real thing under the most cursory glance."

They are talking about making proxies that are no where close to actual copies of cards and condemn proxies used for any other intent. This is what is already said here.

So they are only allowing Playtest proxies, not "This card is too expensive so I'm just going to make a fake one".

As they say:

"Additionally, we reiterate in the strongest terms possible that any individual or retailer who knowingly deals in counterfeits works against the best interests of the community. Wizards has eliminated and will continue to eliminate from the DCI and WPN anyone who knowingly distributes counterfeit cards."

So yes, playtest cards... fine, proxies to replace purchases they state are counterfits and they openly reject the use of.

>>50564438
That's usually what people mean by proxies. A basic land written on or with a little slip of printer paper stuck inside.

>>50561359
talk to your friends about homebrew rules.

I have an Elbrus deck, and one of our super casual friends uses Avenger of Zendikar as her commander because it is her favourite card

>>50561925
W: Weathered Wayfare
U: Counterspell, Trinket Mage
B: Urborb, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Bojuka Bog
R: Nothing actually, but Kiki-Jiki and Conscripts are close.
G: BoP, Wood Elves, Evolutionary Leap is close

My Uril deck torpedoed several cards that are auto includes in almost anything else.

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Hey, this is my dream commander, I'm thinking of proxying it, would you guys allow it? :^)))))

>>50564464
Right; the problem is that due to some in-house miscommunication, some WPN reps were telling store owners that even UNSANCTIONED proxy events weren't allowed, as all proxies were to be considered 'counterfeit', and any store allowing proxy events risked losing their WPN status and possibly facing legal action.

There was a huge brouhaha about it for about a week, before this article came out to clarify things.

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>>50564546
>Counterspell is an auto-include

>>50564438
Dude the article flat out says they can be used in stores and unsanctioned events. It says nothing about intent behind proxies. It's crystal clear that outside of sanctioned events that OBVIOUS proxies that aren't attempts to pass off as real cards (counterfeit) WotC doesn't care about proxies and the community can police them how they like.

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>>50564601

>>50564611
That was the card you took issue with?

>>50563032
Old, plus it had a very small print run, even for its time. Just like Imperial Seal.

>>50564611
Even in non control focused decks, having one or two counters in the 99 forces the rest of the table to respect them. I don't own Mana Drain.

>>50564657
Weathered Wayfarer's not a bad choice. It helps keep you from falling behind if you're lacking green, and it can find utility lands. Solid include.

Trinket Mage is iffy, I wouldn't call it a snap-include in ANY blue deck, but it doesn't take too much to make it very attractive (just having Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Top is already pretty good- go past those three and I'd call it a snap include)

Urborg is fairly no-brainer for a black deck to be able to get more juice out of Coffers effects, Bojuka Bog is damn near unstoppable graveyard removal.

The three green ones and two red ones are debatable, but Counterspell's biggest draw is that it only costs 2, and that's not as big a draw in EDH. I'd rather pay 3 mana for a Counterspell with an upside.

>>50564724
Oh, I didn't say "counterspells, period". I said "Counterspell". I'd rather pay 3 mana for a Faerie Trickery or perhaps a Hinder/Spell Crumple; there's too much upside in 3 mana counters to go with just the base Counterspell, even without Mana Drain in the running

>>50563431
but counterspell counters 7/7 card types

>>50561925
W: Wall of Omens
U: Rhystic Study
B: Fleshbag Maurader
R: Icefall
G: Sakura-Tribe Elder

>>50562187
>>50562188
What is the purpose of having a high barrier to entry for tournaments? Aren't tournaments supposed to be a measurement of skill?

Please ignore me if this is a common topic for shitposting, I'm a bit out of the loop.

>>50564821
It's less about having a high barrier to entry, and more about wanting to sell packs in general. Selling a full set for a flat price works great if your model is a Living Card Game, but not so much if your model is a CCG.

>>50561925
Starke of rath in every red deck

Pestilence in every black deck

>>50564821
It benefits entrenched/p2w players, which are the ones putting the most money into shops/WotC's pockets. It also has the effect of making a bright line rule instead of forcing TOs to argue with the guy who shows up with 75 same art mountains that have card names sharpied onto them.

I wanna play red something that has access to stupid cards like scrambleverse and other shit that takes forever to resolve. I just wanna fuck up everybody else's plans. I was thinking Riku but I'm not too sure

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>>50564927
>>50564842

>>50564927
Norin the Wary

>tfw alara had all those interesting legendary creatures
>tfw want to build a deck for all of them

I don't know why but I have the biggest boner for alara, it was such a great set.

I hope we never return there.

>>50561657

You aren't entitled to dictate rules.

>>50565242
don't worry jacetice league won't go there ever. They have to go to multicultural planes from now on

>>50565360
What cultural stereotype -themed plane haven't we been to yet?

Egypt doesn't count, we're going there

>>50562105

I thought the problem with proxies is that they don't support the secondary market

Gold bordered cards do

They seem perfect for unsanctioned magic

>>50565458
Russia
Brazil
Mexico
Canada
Australia

North Korea?

>>50565458
I was going to say middle east, then I remembered arabian nights, fuck.

I believe we haven't had a nordic themed block yet, unless you want to count ice age. I'd love to see a block focused around nordic mythology and everything but without the jacetice league.

>>50565519
>but without the jacetice league.

let's be realistic here

>>50564643
I can't believe someone saved this.

>>50565498
>>50565519
>>50565537

Is there a chance of visiting any of these? What would the set be centered around?

How would the jacetice league ruin it?

>>50565537
I know it's unrealistic but I don't really enjoy the perspective change.

>>50565498
>Canada

We had Ice Age

>>50565554
>Russia
Exile mechanics?

>>50563992
gold borders?? like multicolor cards??

>>50565634
There once was a print of decks that won tournaments, the cards contained in them had gold borders. I believe he means those.

>>50565634

No, gold borders, like white border or black border or silver border, they are collectors edition cards

They aren't tournament legal and they have a different back so you need opaque sleeves or they won't be uniform when facedown like normal cards

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>>50565458
Maori

Give me more Kresh.

why would you be such a faggot about proxies? just play the game you fuking nerd

>>50565467

What does it matter if it doesn't support the secondary market. Those vendors are likely going to crack just as much product for singles regardless if you buy or not and buying singles isn't supporting WotC even indirectly.

>>50564927
i've been thinking of making a meme deck like that but i'm leaning towards grixis because of the following:

>people won't expect it as much as they would from mono-red
>you have access to a shitload of tutors to get your favorite spells with, and they're also cheap tutors
>you can recur your favorite spells with archeomancer and a couple of other things

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I've been kicking around Yidris ideas that aren't super expensive. How viable would a Yidris deck be that is/has:

Packed with board fuckery (permanent destruction/exiling/bouncing)

Wheels (all of them, with the possible exception of Wheel of Fate)

Graveyard Hate (taking advantage of the wheels)

Mill (Talent of the Telepath and Grixis stuff)

Gods and Planeswalkers: to provide win cons and survive through board wipes

The point of the deck would be to screw with combo players (lots of them at my LGS) and to generally sow chaos to keep everyone but me off their game, while wheels and mill deprive people of resources they'd need to answer said chaos.
Thoughts?

>>50561794
Feel like you need to lower your curve in general.
Acidic Slime -> Reclamation Sage
Chancellor of the Annex -> Vryn Wingmare

If you're running all the 1 mana dorks, I would consider running the 1 mana enchanment dorks as well, wild growth and utopia sprawl, but they can be difficult to support without the full ABU dual/ fetch manabase. Also, compulsory remark about no noble hierarch.

I would fit in a null rod or a stony silence in somewhere, maybe take out the mana web? derevi should be enough to keep lands tapped down.

I think deadeye/palinchron is too clunky for your deck. If you draw either before you've locked the board they're a dead card.

Linvala1 lets you fight back against decks similar to yourself that try to elfball out bullshit, and is cheaper to find/play than elesh norn, particularly if you dont have survival of the fittest into loyal retainers.

This is personal preference, but I also try to fit in a single piece of graveyard hate, I use scavenging ooze.

>>50565987
also: you have access to absolutely retarded ways of ending the game, like casting hidetsugu/chaos festival and any damage doubler or tainted strike to kill everyone, including yourself. make sure to act like you did it by accident, like you didn't intend to kill yourself, and then proceed to do it next game as well

>muh proxies are stealing

Making proxies isn't illegal and wizards has explicitly stated they have no problem with it, seems at odds with them being "literally stealing"

>muh entitlement

You are the one who feels entitled to play only against official magic cards, you feel entitled because you paid for your official magic cards, nothing wrong with that but let's be clear, you are the one who feels entitled to something in this scenario

Somebody playing with proxies because they don't want to pay for official magic cards isn't doing so because they think anybody else owes them anything, they aren't complaining that people won't play against their fake cards, they are simply acting in their own interests within the bounds of what their peers see as acceptable. As long as people are willing to play with them then they get to play with proxies.

>if we allow people to play with proxies, what's to stop them from proxying everything and magic dies

We already live in that world, there is nothing stopping people from proxying everything

Believe me, it's not because of autists like you stopping them. The reason people don't just proxy everything and never buy cards is because magic the gathering as a product is more than just words and rules, it's more than the game itself

The game itself isn't really commodifiable, all the rules and card text is available on the Internet, hence stuff like cockatrice, you can't run a business on purely "intellectual property" and contrary to your autism, Wizards knows this and they don't care, they've created a product that isn't harmed by that

How? Because people like to own shiny, well-formatted magic cards with decent resolution art

Notice how they only care about counterfeit magic cards? What they don't want is people selling fakes pretending they are official magic cards, THAT is stepping on their toes, but it's enforceable too. Anybody claiming to sell official magic cards can be prosecuted for selling fakes

>>50561794
So you're running DEN essentially just for palinchron combo but you're not running T&N to fetch both? What the fuck are you doing, boyo?

>>50566175
>>50566051

Better to run Mirari's wake, phantasmal image, and palinchron, because Mirari's wake and phantasmal image are great without palinchron but deadeye is less so

>>50566239
Well he clearly copied the majority of a primer and added some combos he read about elsewhere, likely literally resulting from a google search for "commander infinite combos." Very little thought went into that deck.

>>50561925
White: no idea
Green: Cultivate
Blue: Rhystic Study
Red: Chaos Warp tied with Blasphemous Act
Black: Phyrexian Arena

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>>50561691
Underrated filename.

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I have so many ideas for Yidris I can't choose one. What did you build (or consider building) for him?

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Did I do okay? Been wanting a new EDH deck and Atraxa is impossible to find close to MSRP. Been wanting to build a red deck as well.

>>50566403
Ogre tribal with wizard subtheme.

>>50566403
Just build the same boring-ass "MW with Black" deck that everyone else has.

>>50566477
Meh, already have a MW deck.

>>50566403
Double strike and extra combat phases until you can cascade cascade cascade cascade cascade cascade cascade cascade cascade cascade cascade

>>50566403

HYPERGENESIS

>>50563795
Uncensored one?

>>50565467
Gold bordered cards don't really support the secondary market. They're purchased straight from wizards as a guaranteed set of cards; they have very little value on the secondary market.

>>50566594
That's the base idea, but what to cascade into? General whiteless goodstuff?

>>50566421
never buy repackaged trading cards

this has been your daily /tg/ PSA

>>50566874
Rather, buy them at your own risk.

I once bought some repackaged trading cards and got 5 copies of the Political Puppets deck. Cha-ching.

>>50566874
The only thing I missed out on was the oblivion sower from the eldrazi deck and the oversized Mizzix.

I dunno, man. What's wrong with repackaged items as long as the majority product is still there?

Repackaged boosters are one thing but this seems kind of okay. There were also a bunch of Kalemne decks there as well but they were mostly paired with janky intro decks.

Trait Doctoring or Whim of Volrath?

>>50566954
Generally you're getting fleeced. Usually you're gonna pay 30 dollars for a 2 dollar box and four decks they couldn't sell at 8 dollars each, whose sum value probably falls well short of 30 dollars.

There's also the fact that some less-than-scrupulous people will repackage it so you THINK you're getting a pair of Intro Pack decks and a Duel Deck pair... but what you really got was 6 dollars in promos and 200 basic land.

>>50566967
Probably Whim. You can re-use it "on demand" much easier, and it being an Instant opens it up for tricks.

>>50567016
Ah, okay yeah that last part fucking blows.

>>50566825
At that point you're probably gonna be casting half your deck.

>tfw can't seem to get in line with my groups powerlevel

I've got four decks, two of them aren't good enough to win unless I get perfect draws all game, the other two are so overtuned I either win turn 6 or spend the entire game pretending I can't win so they don't get salty

>>50566029

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I like Atraxa, but I already have a Ghave AND a (more casual) Anafensa deck with a "+1/+1 Counter" theme and I don't want to do Superfriends. Other than the obvious stuff (Infect, Blowfly infestation, Grim Poppit), what are good cards that interact with -1/-1 counters?

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Thread's fucked anyway
Can someone help me with my math homework?

>>50567506
>how many cards?

What the fuck are you smoking? Where do cards come into it?

>>50567506
The order they're cast doesn't matter. You'll always apply Twisted Experiment first, then Twisted Image, because Experiment happens in layer 7c, and Image happens in 7e.

So you'll buff the Abom to an 8/2, swap that to 2/8, and Justice will draw you 2 cards.

>>50567524
>You draw cards equal to that creature's power

>>50567524
I'm assuming they're trying sac Abom to draw cards. But I don't know why they would switch it's p and t, unless they wanted to draw less cards.

>>50567547
Yeah, for some reason I read Q1 as not including the twisted justice, I'm retarded.

>>50567506
I think that in both cases you draw 2 cards, since the cards work in different layers. If Giant Growth was used, I wouldn't be so sure, but it'd probably similar situation.

>>50562015
I actually do the second scenario with lots of cards. Im not gonna buy over a playset and I dont wanna take em out from modern/legacy or graded case. I would buy alternate art/frame proxies if I find nice ones.

>>50567506
6 cards and two cards right?

>>50566029
It could work, but really the most effective yidris strategy is storm enablers coupled with double strike and extra combat phases

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Is this motherfucker the best commander for a hyper-control type deck? Counters / Removal / Card Advantage out the ass, minimal creatures and a solid beater enchanted up as a wincon?

>>50568045
>Swinging for 6 damage a turn
Sorry but that won't deal 120 damage before someone deals with him. If you want to play UW control, you play Grand Arbiter and run combos as your win condition because control can't win without combos in a format with life totals this high. This is exactly the reason why French has lower life totals.

>>50567453

fuck that, interact with charge counters and proliferate and win via darksteel reactor

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I have no idea what I'm doing

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If I put this in Nekusar will it be fucked up or what

>>50568137
>No sources of card advantage
Enjoy being crushed by blue players.

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>>50568137
This looks really bad.

>>50568097
I forgot to mention I largely only play 1v1. People that play magic around here are rare. There's 1 LGS within 2 hours of here and it's full of weebs, trannies, and extreme tryhards.

>>50568172
Oh, in that case then yeah, Traft is solid. Vial Smasher//Kraum is basically the same thing in different colours though. It's potentially a LOT more explosive. You drop Vial Smasher, pass, Force of Will a spell, opponent takes 5. Then you cast a Gurmag Angler, opponent takes 7, pass. Opponent points removal at Vial Smasher, you Misdirect, opponent takes 5. Then you rip a Bonfire and deal like 10.

>>50568038
Well I AM going for a budget build. That and Yidris isn't going to be the wincon, more of an afterthought/luxury.
The main point is to cause as much chaos as possible with everyone else's resources while controlling the tempo of exactly how resources are being fucked with.

>>50568137
This looks like more like a 1v1 pauper highlander deck with a few uncommons than a commander deck.

>>50568152
uuuh I don't know

I have cathartic reunion, expedite, the one where creatures cant block and you get a draw

I have to trim that down and pick a commander

What are some staple old red / green cards I need?

>>50568285
>And win by Planeswalkers/attrition
Forgot to add that.

>>50568322
Those are cantrips or loot effects, not card advantage.

https://edhrec.com/commanders/rg/#gruulstaples

Just found 4 copies of bribery in an old box and had a look what it's worth nowadays. I'm pretty happy with today.

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Looking through old sets is interesting. Probably this one is widely known anyways, but I'm sure I'll find something useful. Or at least, more useful than >>50568148

>>50568148
Thats a secret tech if I ever saw one

>>50568418
Not really, it's a pretty awful card. How much of the average deck is creatures? 20-25 cards? If 1 in 4/5 draws deals 3 damage, that's a pretty shit return.

>>50567453
>>50568131
Can Energy be proliferated? They're counters on a player, right?

>>50568346
Looking at that list shows just how much crap people put into their decks.

Mostly just people throwing in cards because they opened it recently.

>Mina and Denn
>Arlinn Kord
>anything NEAR being RG staples

They can fit specific decks, but Mina and Denn being in 43% of all Gruul decks? Jesus.

Missing genuine green staples like Azusa, Genesis Wave, Tooth & Nail, Earthcraft, Sylvan Library, Burgeoning, Survival of the Fittest, Asceticism, Nature's Claim, Mana Reflection, Greater Good, Terastodon, Titania, Regal Force, Abundance, Song of the Dryads, Praetor's Counsel, Sylvan Scrying, Crop Rotation, Chord of Calling, Worldly Tutor, Life from the Loam and probably many more I can't think of right now.

As for red cards, Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast, Chaos Warp, Vandalblast, Shatter Spree, Sneak Attack, Purphoros, Wheel of Fortune and Reiterate.

>>50568549
Yup, that works.

>>50568549

You can. It's a slow way to get energy, but yeah.

>>50566813

So then why do distributors and game stores sell them?

>>50568566
M&D and Arlinn are "new" cards and don't have a $20+ price tag. That's why they're there and those other cards aren't. People on tappedout usually put cards they actually own.

A lot of the cards you listed are either (a. expensive or (b. a lot older. Some aren't, but most are. People either don't have them or don't know they exist.

>>50568577
Yeah, now that I look at the cards that use energy, it seems really inefficient, even with like 3 proliferations per turn.

>>50568680
Yeah I know, it just annoyed me because people using edhrec as a resource to find staples would end up overlooking these really solid cards as a result, instead being shown garbage cards like Mina and Denn

>>50568712

I don't really think Mina and denn is a garbage card, it's pretty decent and doesn't really have any downsides as an include until your decklist gets really tight

43% of gruul decklists aren't very tight at all

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>>50566745
here you go friendo

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Overcosted counterspell on a stick, wow.

I imagine if someone appears with this guy as commander he'll get inmediately labeled as "that guy"

>>50568012
Nope, 2 either way.