/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Behavior meter of any kind, they just never work and you are better off making rulings on the spot. Ex: clarity, wisdom, harmony.

Requiem clanbooks they are awful for players coming from masquerade and people keep recomending them.

When requiem plays in masquerade territory it loses, requiem should play to what make it different from masquerade so a book that comes with the "origin of a clan" and trying to make clan a "thing" when in requiem is irrelevant is harmful to the game. Unless the new player in question hates Cain from masquerade then i would leave the clan books as last books to read.

Chargen in 2nd edition is shit. The games are less noob friendly than ever, the dev assumes that everyone on the table read the whole book when 80% of the time the dm read it and the players barely knows the rules/setting. And now in 2nd chargen players are overwhelmed with choices after choices that they gotta make and most dont know what significance they have.

Chargen should be recently converted/changed/awakened and a side bar with the more experienced chargen options.

>>50519310
>Chargen should be recently converted/changed/awakened and a side bar with the more experienced chargen options.

Eh. It is.
Except that there are no "experienced chargen options".

>>50519359

No it isnt, chargen in wod is "you changed a few months back" that why werewolves start with 3 points of renown, totem, touchstones both physical and spiritual and tribe.

Same with mages that start with order, tools, praxys, yantras, rotes and arcanums in 2 or 3.

For new player the best way to learn the game is to start with 1 renown, 1 auspice gift and thats it. With mage arcanums in 2 and 1 tool and thats it.

>>50518962
>what's your least favorite part of CofD?

From Vampire Requiem, VII is horseshit in all 3 possibilities one more retarded than the last.

>>50518962
Least favorite, non-Beast stuff? The Strix without a doubt. That they took up an entire chapter in the 2e Requiem corebook still irks me.

>>50519915

The stupid fucking owls, the most unnecesary and pointless bad guy in requiem

>>50519915
>>50519985
Can someone explain why i see in many places all this hate for the strigis?

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>>50520304

Plenty of reasons. First the best enemies vampire have are other vampires from within and without.

So obviously the Strix represent the unknowable enemy and the enemy from without. Both positions that are filled better with either a) Other supernaturals or b) Enemy factions (like Belials brood).

As an idea it feels weird to use this pretty obscure greek myth when the setting as whole is kind of religion-free. Of all the myths and creatures why this particular one is the one that gets to be "true"?

Originally they were a footnote on 1st edition only mentioned in a Night Horror book and Requiem for rome which made sense being a book about Rome. Now suddenly they are THE antagonist for Requiem and get the core book name after them and a chapter wasted on a plot point not all DMs are gonna explore.

The idigam from werewolf were better established in 1st edition with many mention and chapters in all the antagonist books about them. And even then their chapter in 2nd feel excessive.

In short, the trix-just-for-kids are nemesis for Vampire that feels rushed and out of left field, a pathetic and needdless attempt to differentiate the game from Masquerade

>>50520304
Their kind of a out of context enemy.

https://youtu.be/DkeGMaq0O98

Silver Ladder or Seers of the Throne theme song I'm not sure which.

>>50520304
Far too much information on an annoying powerful and ultimately unnecessary enemy.

I like requiem Vampires. I like that clans are much less relevant and have no real "canon". I like the lack of unifying myth, and the possibility that Vampire is merely a much larger class of many, many types of bloodsucker who over time became a lot more similar.

I don't like their strange connection to these weird shadow-owls who are both simultaneously a dire threat no Vampire wants to mess with, while also being provided with ludicrously powerful stats and an extensive write up.
Which includes a description of their ability to actually create Vampires, and fuse with them.

Vampire doesn't need an external enemy. They're the internal conflict splat. No other faction does it better, and to diminish that with a "united enemy" is a bit annoying.

>>50520905
Far too hopeful to be a Seer theme song.
Also "WE'RE the Princes of the Universe".
When have the Seers ever acknowledged another's right to power?

>>50520951
Good point.

>>50520951
https://youtu.be/BfuWXRZe9yA
Guardians of the Veil (possible mastigos)

>>50520686

>So obviously the Strix represent the unknowable enemy and the enemy from without. Both positions that are filled better with either a) Other supernaturals or b) Enemy factions (like Belials brood).
Can you elaborate on why you think so? I always felt that vampires where the most concrete of the supernaturals and needed an enemy that was not tied to spirits, angels and stuff... with more paranoia fuel to match the vampire social game than simply other vampires/vampires factions.

>As an idea it feels weird to use this pretty obscure greek myth when the setting as whole is kind of religion-free. Of all the myths and creatures why this particular one is the one that gets to be "true"?
There are many culture that have owls as myths, why do you focus on a single one? I don't remember the 2e book mentioning a greek myth, also considering that the owl was the sacred anymal of Athena, associated with wisdom, military strategy and protection... not very strix-like, unless i missed something.

>>50521238
>Can you elaborate on why you think so?

Because Requiem was always about YOUR requiem, it was always a personal game unlike the other 2 main splats. Is the same reason VII felt flat on its face, it lack the personal component that is lost in an alien enemy. Same reason the Sabbat works so well in Masquerade they are either the dark mirror or the alien enemy. But both VII and the Strix are just the alien enemy, i never felt the paranoia of the strix while reading them the same way i feel it with Belial brood. The owls are just an monster with monster motivations and, unless the DM really wanna do something with it, nothing more. They are tricky sure but the same paranoia and can be fueled by not knowing who is a diabolist in a city.

If vampire really REALLY needed an external enemy outside of vampires, which i think it doesnt, then the stix are too similar and too impersonal for that.

>>50521238
>why do you focus on a single one? I don't remember the 2e book mentioning a greek myth, also considering that the owl was the sacred anymal of Athena, associated with wisdom, military strategy and protection... not very strix-like, unless i missed something.

Remember that the Strix first appeared in Requiem for Rome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strix_(mythology)

If as you said they wanted to raise the paranoia to match the vampire social game than simply Vampire/Vampire factions then they should have gone full measure. There are example of vampire-like beings (like a japanesse blob of blood that barely forms itself), the antagonist could have being this new "Vamps-creatures" that start to form and become a battle for resources kinda like the kue-jin but not shit.

>>50519676

Stolze's take on VII, the Akhud, are really flavorful and add a lot to the setting. What's the issue?

>>50519985

They show the Kindred what being solely governed by the Beast really looks like and give a reason for the debilitating paranoia that vampires have to actually exist, because the enemy is invisible and among you. They're also profoundly easy to ignore, should you dislike them.

The rare elusive WoD question: does anyone think a dying crusader Embraced by an uncharacteristically merciful Assamite would be an interesting Dark Ages character? I'm on a DA kick and I'm trying to think of a character I can really sink my teeth into.

>tfw DA: Wraith never

>>50521541
>The rare elusive WoD question: does anyone think a dying crusader Embraced by an uncharacteristically merciful Assamite would be an interesting Dark Ages character? I'm on a DA kick and I'm trying to think of a character I can really sink my teeth into.

I played the same character just as a Ravnos (the DA version) pretty interesting to play. His chosen exaggerated trait was devotion. It was pretty good.

>>50521487
Ok, i can get behind the reasoning of the first answer.
I didn't remember about the strix creature, but strix is just a name given by vampires in camarilla times... the owls could be anything.

And for what you said about what made belial interesting you have them and also draugr themselves as "inner enemies". Giving them an outside enemy purely driven by self serving emotions (mirroring the beast as an autonomous force) that is not just "vampire but X" feels ok to me...

All in all i understand what you say but i don't agree. Than you for being so exaustive.

>>50521492
>Stolze's take on VII, the Akhud, are really flavorful and add a lot to the setting. What's the issue?

They are "plot convenience" the clan. Their weakness is barely a weakness and just a convenient plot armor.

>>50521492
>They show the Kindred what being solely governed by the Beast really looks like and give a reason for the debilitating paranoia that vampires have to actually exist, because the enemy is invisible and among you.

Again i can do that better with the belials brood.

>They're also profoundly easy to ignore, should you dislike them.

Well of course i can, but the thread was what shit we dislike of Chrod not what shit we dislike of Chrod but we cant get rid off because is intrinsically connected to the game.

>>50521792

Truth be told, I never saw the Brood as being anything but the Diet Sabbat. What do they do so well that you like?

I'm fond of the Strix because they make perfect infiltrators, which the Brood never struck me as.

>>50521826

To be fair the Gentleman Gamer really sold me on then.

The idea of this vampire who get rid of humanity because they find communion with the beast reaching as close as possible 0 while at the same time their elder never reach quite that point because they are "too important" so they rile neonates along to the self-destructive path while they themselves just watch.

The brood to me function as any kind of diabolist one can think off, from the burn everything to the sly elder that is just this intrinsic part of the local vampire society while he moves the strings of young broods. For infiltration the the roaring serpent could work.

A question for CofD Storytellers:

Do you ever find these games difficult to run?

I've run two successful CofD games now (Geist & Hunter), but both involved a decent amount of hand-waving and glossing over inconvenient rules. I found the fluff for the game lines inspiring, but sometimes felt like I had to work around the crunch to still have a game that flowed smoothly.

I had the chance to play in a Mage 2E campaign recently, and I thought the system was pretty awesome, but the game ultimately fizzled out in part because I think the mechanics of it were a little overwhelming for the Storyteller (who had never run CofD before) and the other players (who had never played CofD before).

Do you guys ever struggle with running these systems? And what're some ways you've made your games run better?

>>50521924

The more I play tabletop games, the more I find myself throwing rules out the window except when absolutely necessary. CofD has a functional system, but not one I'd call amazing, and I'd kill to see FATE conversions for them all.

>>50522727
Don't get me wrong, I thought Mage was super cool too. It was actually a lot of fun when you got into a stressful situation, trying to figure out how best to work your spells within the constraints of the moment—how much can you reach, how much potency do you need, can you afford to buy off the paradox, etc.?

More than any other magic system, it made me feel like I was actually an (inexperienced) wizard trying to get the most out of my power under pressure, and it lead to some great creativity.

e.g. One time I asked the Storyteller if I could use my reaches on that one Space 1 spell that lets you learn a target's sympathetic connections in order to turn it into a "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" spell, revealing the most direct chain of sympathetic connections between two seemingly unconnected targets.

But the downside of Mage's magic system is that there is A LOT of math. And I didn't have much trouble with it 'cause I was just one player—who had read the whole rule book, written out shorthand notes on all of my spells, and photoshopped together a cheat-sheet of all the relevant spellcasting tables from the book.

But I know the other players struggled with it, and I can't imagine trying to be a Storyteller for Mage and having to be familiar enough with all the Arcana, do the math for potentially multiple NPC mages, etc. Seems like a lot of mental work that would distract from, you know, trying to run a fun game.

>>50523231
I usually give new players more leeway by letting them start off as murder-hobo nameless and slowly ween them into more thematically correct play as they get a hang of the system.

>>50523258
If only more players were willing to put in that little bit of effort up front to learn the system and engage with the game.

I mean, yeah, maybe taking notes and printing out cheat-sheets is going a bit above and beyond—but I think even a little effort on the part of good players goes a long way to easing GM burnout.

Hypothetically, could a Tzimisce fleshcraft, say, a synthetic arm, on to a vampire?

>>50524259

Has to be flesh is how I'd rule it.

>>50524288
You don't think that their fleshcrafting could place the nerve connections to the machine-y bits, even with maybe a bit of extra surgery?

>>50524316
It's supernatural shenanigans mate. Logic's got no place here.

>>50524316

Is it called "flesh and also some chrome" crafting?

Just finished up a Mage game for some new players. It's a nice and simple murder mystery with some Time shenanigans involved. However...

We're in LA, and I mentioned a lot of supernaturals have stuff going on in LA, so they'll run into all kinds of stuff if they walk down the wrong alley. This has inspired them to go hunt for Vampires.

Should I discourage this crossover nonsense? They're new players, so they won't be /mad/ if I say they're getting in over their heads, but I've been GMing for a while and with any other system I'd say, "Go for it, let me know how it goes for you." because that's what they decided they wanted to do.

tl;dr - New Mages want to go start shit with Vamps, should I tell them it won't end well?

(The party is an Acanthus with a lot of Life to become a plant Mage, a Moros who plans on shifting some metal rods into swords, and a Mastigos with a whip enhanced with Corridors of Time)

>>50524700
What's their gnosis/arcana breakdown? From your description it sounds like the game has gone on long enough for them to buy some dots.

With enough dots it's unlikely they'll get so overwhelmed that you'll see a tpk and you get to teach them a hard lesson about leaving some shit well enough alone.

>>50524760
The Acanthus has been the longest-running, but the other two are only a couple sessions in.

Acanthus - Life 2 Fate 3
Moros - Matter 3 Death 2
Mastigos - Mind 2/3 or Space 2/3, I can't remember.

They're all pretty new, so rolling up is a pretty real danger for at least one of them.

>>50524874

They're all Gnosis 2, also

I ask in the most scientific manner possible...

But could a woman successfully mate with a materialised spirit in human form?
Do all the ah, parts? Work as normal?

What happened to the mega url?

>>50524899
By mate I assume you're referring to re-production. If its within the spirit's purview to reproduce or it's a spirit of babies or whatever, then sure - the shadow will find a way. If not, then probably not.

If your character just wants a spirit sex toy then they're better of buying a vibrator being ridden by a pleasure spirit.

>>50524874
>>50524880
If they were smart and planned things out they could ok. So, realistically certain death.

Personally I like to give my PC's enough rope to hang themselves with.

I'd have a relatively low stakes encounter with a group of vamps that is designed for them to fail. Perhaps a nightclub run by Daeva amused with the prospect of young mages to toy with before the Arrow finds out.

When things go south I'd have an NPC bail them out so they'd get the idea that there are some mysteries they're not ready to face yet.

At this point they have fair warning. If they decide to press the issue I'd have the next encounter end with them battered but nothing permanent. If they keep pressing play it straight and let them deal with the fallout/tpk.

>>50525773
I once killed a bunch of Vampires by throwing them through a portal into Death Valley.

>>50526080
Oh come on. Those cost basically nothing, you cheap bastard.

>>50526072
1. Vampires have a parasitic relationship with mankind. Every Vampire created is another potential Mage fucking murdered.
2. Vampires suffer a fascinating curse, one that's quite interesting and worth considering. Especially how their very blood has mystic properties.
3. Vampires can potentially wield significant social influence, something Mages might want to stop. Especially as they're likely beloved pawns of Seers.
4. Each Order (mostly) has their own reasons. Mysterium want to know their ancient secrets, Ladder fucking hates the blood sucking shits, Arrows don't like the threat they pose, Guardians... Probably wouldn't give a shit.
5. The Stryxis are also quite interesting, and the first step to getting to them is through Vampires.

It could also be personal.

>>50526291
Some people are just thrill seeking asshats.

>>50524899
There's a note in the Sundered World that some people claim lineage from the spirits of the rivers. I didn't put it as hard fact, but there's the hook there if someone wants to run with it.

>>50526323
>no, i don't care HOW attracted you are to that spirit of famine, you are NOT TO BREED with its disgusting, emaciated form made flesh.

>>50526359
How do you think you got Uratha? Some crazy wild woman probably took Father Wolf for a ride.

>>50524700
What do you mean it won't end well? What can vampires do to a bunch of mages?

Gonna rp for the first time ever this friday.,on a VtM one-shot.Got ''vengeful'' and me and the dm agreed the target could be 1 guy from my party,or somebody else from his clan (they are assamites).
Did I fuck up?

>>50526323

You can't stop love, even if it involves a person and a nightmarish monster of a spirit. Some things just can't be Practiced away.

Help me understand the Lancae Sanctum: how does their faith impact their nightly routine? What are considered religious works, for the average church going vampire?

>>50519135
Why do you feel the clanbooks are bad for people coming from Masquerade, out of curiousity? I figure anything that says 'THIS IS NOT THE MASQUERADE CLAN, GAIS' is a plus for people.

>>50527063
Nothing good. The Sanctified see themselves as God's monsters who exist to scare mortals straight, so basically they inflict suffering on them to make them more religious. The other half of what they do involves trying to hammer as many other Kindred into their covenant as possible.

None of the covenants are nice, as a rule, but the Lancea Sanctum is probably the most wholly villainous. It's not unakin to the Sabbat from Masquerade, but more discreet.

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>>50521943
>FATE Conversions

You make me sick. I tried to read and grok FATE and the whole 'make and compel assets' and such is just, meh.

>>50524899
>>50524899
Did you just finish Season 1 of American Horror Story?

>>50527249

The Clanbooks are by far the most narrative heavy of the 1e Requiem books, to the point where they tell an overarching story.

Here's a thread with some commentary about the story: https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?464972-V-tR-Unravelling-the-Clanbooks-(Warning-very-long-and-spolierish!)

It's not hard to see how that could be seen as "playing in Masquerade territory", though I don't really agree there myself. It's either that or the poster read the histories of the Clans and didn't they they matched up to the way Masquerade does it.

>>50527362
Oh, I get that part of it. It's a narrative which I assume causes some of the typical Masquerade players screaming of 'they changed it, now it sucks' diatribe. Myself, I figured that a coherent narrative would have been one of the things that would've sold Masquerade players on Requiem, considering the OTHER thing they scream about is 'WHERE IS THE PLOT I CAN READ LIKE A NOVEL?!'

>>50527281

If there was any system worthy of taking on the CofD or the WoD, it could only be d20 or Cypher.

What I'm saying is: the time is right. We must conjure Monte Cooke's World of Darkness 2e into being.

>>50527382

Nah, that's an easy mistake to make. You sell someone on the changes they would like first, and then you bring up similarities to make them more comfortable with trying it out. If they're not interested in any of the changes from the get go, it's not happening at all.

>>50527260
The LS also demands its followers to cling on Humanity against the Beast, champions all vampires as equal before God, basically created the Traditions, defends mortal Christians where they are persecuted, weed out what they see as corruption in mortal churches and theoretically opposes embracing (and maybe ghouling) mortals. It is a complex entity, with often contradictory views. The Circle always seemed more villainous to me, since they actively encourage the Beast and practice human sacrifice.

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Any suggestions for how to handle pepper spray in an enclosed space with multiple people?

Say person X pepper sprays person Y. Y suffers the effects. But if they're in an enclosed space with others, surely the others would be affected by drift. So, say, they suffer -3?

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>>50527397
>d20

>>50527437
Humanity's no comfort when the Sanctified embrace its worst attributes; they're orderly, but utterly lacking in compassion, and they exalt the suffering of mortals and damnation of Kindred. And they treat their ghouls worse than any other covenant. As for the Circle, while it has its heinous and evil cults, the Circle is very heterodox; you can have a cult more brutal than any the Sanctified can muster and a cult that's utterly benign. The Circle isn't even a unified faction, being an umbrella for any pagan vampire who wants a measure of protection from the Sanctified. As such, I couldn't really call the Circle itself inherently more villainous.

>>50527454
>while Theban Sorcery has minimum Humanity requirements.
A purely optional (and might I add, nonsensical) rule.

>>50527482
Pepper spray isn't tear gass

>>50527511

But Bruce, d20 can do anything!

>>50527512
The Lancea is just as heterodox as the Circle: it has known heresies, reforms and counter reforms in its 2000 years of history. The Crone is not a benign deity, nor is her cult. She wants vampires to get closer to the Beast. Humanity may have flaws, but it's certainly better than embracing the Beast.
>A purely optional (and might I add, nonsensical) rule.
It's not optional, and it makes sense, since their whole shtick is being a monster for the "greater good" while keeping the Beast under control. Check p 151 of VtR 2e.

>>50527607
The Circle doesn't embrace the Beast in that way; that's the Brood's shtick. And Cruac can only reduce Humanity to the level that most vampires fall to anyway (at maximum power).

And I admit that I'd forgotten about 2e, since it heinously shits on all of the covenants in both mechanics and fluff, and should not be paid any attention to in that regard. In my opinion.

Has anyone here played Requiem for Rome? I'd quite like to try it, in part because it'd make a game stretching over centuries far easier, in part because I'd be interested in seeing if history can be changed. Also, I want to try playing a Follower of Set in Rome, and I think they could be adapted to Requiem without too much trouble.

>>50527713
You have to see the nimbus to suffer the effects of it.

A mage can flare it so people can see it.

>>50527676
The Followers of Set are a cult/covenant in the Mekhet clan book. The Mekhet in general are very similar to the Setites (being Egyptian themed, having a rumored affinity for magic, and being weak to sunlight), but their main problem is that Serpentis doesn't exist in VtR. You can have a character that learns Protean as an out of clan discipline to emulate it, but it's costly.

>>50527756
The trouble is that the Mekhet clanbook cult really doesn't capture their flavor well at all; I feel like it'd need to be a Mekhet bloodline created via the translation guide (which, conveniently enough, also has rules for Serpentis).

>>50527781
Yeah, the VtR version is kind of meh. I think the Serpentis conversion is pretty underwhelming to be honest, but it works if you don't give them a big weakness to compensate

>>50527818
It'd need some fiddling to fit into 2e anyway, I think; aren't the Disciplines stronger there?

>>50527837
They are. It'll really need some serious fiddling if you're playing 2e. I'd seriously consider using Protean instead. It's 2nd level broadly covers most of Serpentis' powers with ST approval.

>>50528004
An "incidental flare" occurs when casting a spell and is only visible to active mage sight.

A deliberate flare happens when you deliberately burn a point of mana to show you're not a 'mere conjuror of cheap tricks' it also occurs as a defensive reflex to another supernatural aura. It's visible to everyone.

>>50527903
Well, I have some ideas, inspired by the Setite clanbook.

1. Eyes of the Serpent: Likely the same as the translation guide's version, though if need be, it could be made more potent by preventing even supernatural targets from resisting.
2. Form of the Cobra: As Beast's Skin, but the Setite can only take on a natural cobra's form at first. Unnaturally large versions become available at higher Discipline levels, and of course, Apep's Kiss can be used along with it.
3. Apep's Kiss: The Setite fills her fangs with venom that can be injected with a simple bite. The venom has a Toxicity level equivalent to Serpentis rating or Blood Potency (I haven't decided which), and does lethal damage even to other Kindred.
4. Heart of Darkness: See translation guide.
5. Face of the God: The Setite transforms herself into a physical representation of Set or one of his associated gods. I'm unsure of the exact mechanics for this yet, but going by the clanbook version, the Setite gains Strength, Stamina, Presence, Manipulation and Willpower. I would also add that the Setite gains an even more potent venomous bite, one that does aggravated damage.

>>50525773
You can, you just need to be more creative,

>>50528181
>Does the defensive reflex also cost a point of mana?

No, it's automatic. If I recall correctly the mage can't control it. Humorously, this makes even a novice mage a weapon of mass destruction.

>Also, what Practice of Prime would be necessary to make a mage's Nimbus visible to either or both of Sleepers and Sleepwalkers such as other supernaturals?

Prime ••••, the book has an example spell 'Apocalypse' it would however be a massive dick move/act of hubris. Unawakened can't control or parse the sight and will slowly be blinded and broken by the experience.

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Is the V20 The Endless Ages Anthology and V20 The Cainite Conspiracies Anthology in the mega? I cant find them, am I just retarded?

>>50528807
They JUST came out dude, why don't you go buy them? Not everything that comes out immediately gets downloaded and cleaned for freeloaders like you.

>>50527634
>And I admit that I'd forgotten about 2e, since it heinously shits on all of the covenants in both mechanics and fluff, and should not be paid any attention to in that regard. In my opinion.

how so? I am reading the LS book and can recall any serious difference between it and the 2nd core.

>>50527249
>Why do you feel the clanbooks are bad for people coming from Masquerade, out of curiousity? I figure anything that says 'THIS IS NOT THE MASQUERADE CLAN, GAIS' is a plus for people.

Not really, the Clanbooks in Requiem arent bad books (shitty typography aside) but they do try to make clans a thing, when in requiem they are pretty meaningless.

Coming from Masquerade reading the Clanbooks as the first books is an awful idea (unless, one really hates the judeo-cristian origins from masquerade) because you are switching a rich backstory for this disorganized bunch of origins stories that will not really be relevant unless the DM wants to make it a thing.

Things like the Nosferatu necropolis is really out of left field for what normally Requiem is about but it smells of a bootleg version of Masquerade clans organization.

IMO Requiem should play at what make it different from Masquerade and one of those things is "Clan dont matter, Covenants is where the party is at"

I always recommend players coming from masquerade to read the covenants book first, Blood magic, any other book that caught their attention and then the Clanbooks.

>>50529121
I can see that as the reason for them not to be read 'first', sure. That doesn't make them bad books, though. But I see what you're saying, and can understand that point of view.

Which gameline lets me play as my fursona?

>>50529430
Beast - where you're limited to your own magical realm and must be inherently frightening, or you have to use Changing Breeds - which is only for predator animals.

Or you can use Skinchangers if you're ok with a minor splat.

>>50529430
Deviant

>>50529534
No. There are a few good ideas. It could probably be scavenged for 2e.

>>50529570
Dot rating comes first, an Adept in Forces can create fire, gravity, sunlight, momentum and nuclear energy all with equal effectiveness

>>50529570
There are other ways to fuck over vampires beyond forces you know. :-)

>>50529525
Making bladed weapons inflict at least some lethal damage to vampires like in 1e would really help Tier 1 and 2 hunters against vampires not tailored for close-combat.

>>50524700
>tl;dr - New Mages want to go start shit with Vamps, should I tell them it won't end well?

Mechanically speaking, in 2nd Ed. Mages still shit all over vampires, so why wouldn't it end well? I mean one of your players is Acanthus Master Race.

>>50529774
It's not like weaponizing fire is difficult in the modern age.

>>50529953
It is for four schmucks that want to avoid becoming arsonists.

>>50526394
>Chris, are you currently an author on any upcoming WW books or projects?

I'm not working on anything right now but there's some stuff for the future that I've been asked to work on.

>Also, do you know the title of the next Forsaken supplement?

Maybe.

>>50530139
If I could tell you details, I would do, but it ain't my call.

>>50530034
>Denial Invitus
>Anger Carthaginians
>Bargaining Sanctum
>Depression Dragons
>Acceptance Circle

Dragons are textbook bargaining.

>>50528964
Sorry, I did not mean it in a bad way. I just wanted to know if I missed them or not. Thanks for confirming.

>>50518962
>Let's get negative, but for a good cause. Bar Beasts, what's your least favorite part of CofD? You know, so others know what to look out for.

Hurtlocker is taking for fucking ever. and a bunch of /pol/ level bullshit that I won't even bother with.

Does anyone know if a changeling the lost contract called contract of blades exist? A player of mine wanted to take it and I've been looking everywhere to find it.

>>50531695

Check Chronicles of Darkness: Dark Eras, and its "Lily, Saber, and Thorn" chapter.

>>50531769
Thank you

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>>50527482
Pepper spray was such a fucking nightmare in nWoD.

>>50531184
>Hurtlocker is taking for fucking ever. and a bunch of /pol/ level bullshit that I won't even bother with.

The good thing about that is that we got the mechanics as free pdf without any shitty fluff.

>>50530345
>Clans aren't really meaningless in Requiem. That's true even in Requiem 2e. They're *less* meaningful, but they're not completely meaningless. A lot of the importance of Clan even comes from Covenant, with many of the Bloodlines being rich and deep in the lore of the Covenants.

not the same anon but i am running Requiem in a few weeks, can you tell me how clan is meaningful for their society? I read 2nd edition and all i see is either mechanics like disciplines, weakness, banes and what bloodlines they can become.

But aside from that there doesnt seem to be a lot of social weight to clan aside from "daeva tend to be divas"

>>50518962
>Bar Beasts, what's your least favorite part of CofD

How many people would honestly say Beast anyway? I know it isn't well loved but most people don't play them and have something more immediate in their own preferred splat to care about I'd imagine.

That being said, fuck Beast

>>50534153
>Bloodlines are important. Familial lineage is important to vampires, which is why there are mechanics for tasting blood and learning that information. Hell, Beijing actually makes Clan more important than Bloodline, which I find stupid. It's way more important than it needs to be, and feels like oWoD, where all the Clans are treated as organized and holding meetings.

Well i am running with just the 2nd edition core so no bloodlines, in that situation the only thing clan matter is this nebulous notion of linage that is less "you are ventrue" and more "you are the childe of this badass vampire"

>>50534345
>Mortal Remains sidebar speaks for itself

What the side bar said that was so bad?

>>50518962
>Let's get negative, but for a good cause. Bar Beasts, what's your least favorite part of CofD? You know, so others know what to look out for.

People who play it to work out issues instead of going to get actual help with their issues. It's what has led us to the SJW and /pol/ insanity.

>>50532431
nah, I meant that the other stuff I hated about WoD is some /pol/ level bullshit. Things like the pronouns of the Centimnti(sp)? pages of Promethean 2e. I don't play to read SJW propaganda. Let me figure out what real world politics I want in my game.

>>50529570
honestly, I treat sunlight like changeling treats iron.

Once its worked by magic of any kind, it don't count anymore.

Because the implications otherwise are mindbogglingly stupid.

>>50534539
>It had a character who insists on being referred to using xir or zher or something and then went "IF YOU FIND THIS JARRING BUT DON'T FIND VAMPIRES JARRING YOU HAVE PROBLEMS AND SHOULD PROBABLY GET THERAPY"

Uh, here i though OPP had come a long way since Children of Gaia Revised, seems it hasnt.

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>>50534608
Someone else in the WoD thread who doesn't cow to Mage Supremacy? I love you.

>>50534582
That sort of stupidity if what you get when you talk to the fat blob-child that is Aspel.

You deserve it. Learn to report and ignore, and maybe you'll deserve something better.

>>50534608
I've co-opted the rules for Perfected Items from the Signs and Sigils for that purpose.

Perfected Light counts as the light of the Sun for harming Vampires. You can achieve it with a Patterning spell upon existing light, or as a Reach Option on an Unraveling spell.

>>50534608
>Because the implications otherwise are mindbogglingly stupid.
No stupider than the fact fire is easily conjured too. Vampire banes suck

>>50534689
>In fact, Dave explained that in 2e they intentionally eliminated the Arcana "speed bumps" because they were entirely artificial and inconsistent game balance limitations.

Isnt "you cant cast lethal damage until arcanum 3 or 4" still a thing in mage 2nd?

>>50534720
Demon thing is fine and a detail I really like honestly. And the Mortal Remains sidebar is mostly fine until it gets super condescending.

>>50534720
>Finding someone who uses something relatively new, human-fabricated, and non-standard to be offputting is worse than finding murder offputting
Murder is one of the most natural things around. It may be a horrible thing, but it's very natural and humans can easily understand it. It's why you have more people getting iffy about the concept of new technologies than the concept of say, war.

>>50534878
>Assuming that the world is perfect and that the causal outcome of situations is NEVER the "victim's" fault to any degree
Anarchists please leave

>>50534926
Eight, like if you were in the woods and started poking a bear with a stick and then the bear kills you. Sorry fucker you had it coming.

>>50534887
>The removal of any artificial "game balance" barrier should be applauded and encouraged, and the Arcana are much improved in 2e.

I agree though however i still think the whole you can hurl lethal damage until arcanum for is still a speed bump.

Personally i preffer to make it a reach option to upgrade damge to lethal.

However i would never run mage with crossover ever so ymmv.

>>50534917

Ah forgot about those.

>>50534979
>Implying I'm /pol/
I hate /pol/ anon. I'm just someone who believes that some things have causal explanations, and that if one deliberately is part of said causal explanation, then some blame should be shifted to them.

Practicality over idealism, my dude.

So, I'm pretty inexperienced with this whole World of Darkness thing. I know people that play it, but most games died before they got off the ground, so I've only been in two and never really got into it. Chronicles of Darkness is the newest version of the system and setting, right?

What's the general opinion on the rules? From what I've read, I was kind of put off by how it seemed to go too far in simplifying mechanics, like reducing attacks to a single roll and mostly removing the idea of actions that require multiple successes. It gives me the impression they cut down on the math for no real benefit, and there's not much room left for probability between "pretty likely" and "don't bother unless you're desperate".

On the other hand, the system in general looks more solid than other World of Darkness books I've seen, like something I might even be willing to run. I don't have any actual experience with it, either. How does it work in practice?

Or am I misunderstanding how it works entirely?

>>50535054
CoD is the 2nd edition and latest version, yes.

I find the rules to be less 'simplified' and more 'streamlined'. Rather than requiring, say, four rolls for combat it's torn down to one roll that's modified by things you would've rolled for prior. As far as requiring multiple successes, you can still do that. There's just not a chart that explicitly states '1 success is abysmal'. If something is complex, it is LOGICAL for it to need multiple successes; it's more storyteller-determined at this point. STs still set difficulties and required thresholds if they feel necessary, but by default, unless it's something crazy, one success is a 'general pass' and it suggests that more successes grant a better result anyway. The rules are streamlined and easier to deal with, and you get bogged down in tons less minutiae than you could in OWoD.

>>50535110
Creating new words is, creating new CONCEPTS, is not.

>Also, maybe we should be a little more iffy on war.
I vehemently disagree.

>>50535125
Additionally, the 'setting' does not connect between the old and new versions. Requiem is not a 'revised' Masquerade, it's an entire new setting and game line focusing on vampires, for example. Same with all the other lines.

>>50534992
I just have a big problem with writers injecting their politics in the most obvious ways possible in any medium. I'll give an example.
I love guns, absolutely love em. But there was this book I was reading that was written by a guy who also really likes guns. Seriously there are entire pages detailing every little piece of a characters firearm. But there was one book he wrote where the main character is hanging out in a diner with some hunters in this rural town. And he creates the most strawmen, skinny pussy leftist asshat who literally just walks up to them and goes "guns are bad mkay." and the main character tells him to fuck off. It was petty and distracting.

And the worthless blob shows its true colors again.

Remember kids! Don't engage, don't reply, not even to mock.

Just report and ignore, that's all the shitty aurist gets, or should, because THIS IS HOW YOU RUIN ANOTHER FUCKING THREAD YOU SHITHEADS.

>>50534878
Yes. You know the exact result that will happen when you engage the fat fuck.

It happens every goddamn time.

>>50535164
Fine, let me move the goalposts even further; We don't create concepts that change the very ways we look at ourselves and society very often (I'm sure you knew what I meant before).

>Le everyone who has a non-standard opinion is /pol/ meme
Because there are times where things need to be enforced (Be that ideology, border disputes, etc), and largely the only way to do that is through warfare. That is unless you think the League of Nations was effective at all.

>>50535173
Stop replying to the autist.

>>50535247
>Replying to the subhuman like its an actual person

>>50535279
Its Aspel.

Do you even have to ask?

>>50535373
>Yes we do. That is literally an evolutionary development that has allowed the species to progress.
>He doesn't know about massive reactionary movements everytime social change has come about
Shit

>>50535431
My point was that largely humans don't like rapid change.

You don't have to be all bad about it.

>>50535513
>This sort of degeneracy is on the rise
Time to bring some real social change with my Neo-Feudal National Corporatist Military Junta

>>50535125
>>50535136
>>50535142
Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I'd like it's more flexible than I thought, and I'd be fine with it if I tried it.

>sounds like you may be more familiar with the original World of Darkness
I've been in one original and one new World of Darkness game, but the original game lasted much longer and was (somehow) more recent. I'm probably forgetting most of the new system and overestimating how much it's changed, yeah.

If nothing else, I'd appreciate less getting bogged down with minutiae.

>>50535488
More human then the blobthing.

>>50535545
>>50535142
Meant to quote >>50535155

>>50535545
My one advice with avoiding minutiae, if only because I find them to be so, is, for CoD, to perhaps ignore the Fighting Styles. They're Merits that are built around various types of combat training. In CoD they're the worst portion of minutiae, and I disallow them when I run CoD.

>>50535566
It's really more of a Corporate Police State than Libertarian, but hey, whatever you want.

>>50535581
I am an autist so I love the martial arts section.

>>50535595
I find them to be minutiae. I don't really 'ban' them per se, but I'm an ex-MES player so I have a much more simplified version of the Fighting Styles that I use that my regular players like, so we use those. The whole scheme of FS prerequisites, especially FS that require other FS, just ends up being a lot more than I really care to bother with. It doesn't bother our group, but personal YMMV of course. It's the only thing we really change.

>>50535647
>Canada had a lot of progressive change than had a short term of conservative back lash. But then it shifted back.
Please don't remind me
I want off the Trudeau train

How many players is too many for Mage 2e?
I've just had two jump up out of nowhere, who I thought had said no weeks ago, taking my group from a healthy 4, to a bloated 6.

What's more I had intended them to be more powerful than normal stating Mages with about 20 extra Experiences.

Help?

>>50535918
Just tell them 'Hey, I'm sorry, I thought I had told you I was already full up. Maybe next time.' Y'know, talk to them like a normal person.

Powerful but useless magical items.

A teapot that pours whatever style and flavor the recipient desires.

A toaster that can toast bread and hold it at the right temperature with out burning it.

A usb port that is always pointed the right direction.

>>50536093
stop being a faggot.

>>50536093
According to the mods, apparently.
>https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?756696-Mage-20th-Backer-PDF-Released!&p=19034404#post19034404

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THANK YOU /POL/ CAN WE GO BACK TO DISCUSSING VAMPIRES NOW THANKS?!

>>50536555
>Isn't Branford the guy that everyone hates? Also, every time someone on 4chan calls somewhere else a safe space, I laugh. 4chan loves to shout down anyone with views they don't agree with. Hence this argument.

True, but you don't usually see people getting banned over it as though it's a grand show of moral superiority.

>>50536645
>Wanting a direct democracy
Someone has never read Plato's work

>>50536555
> 4chan loves to shout down anyone with views they don't agree with.

Most people here think aspel is a waste of a human being and full delusional opinions and yet he is allowed to shared them here so bow exactly 4chan shots down dissenting opinions?

>>50537189
Yes, because they'd be instantly banned, Aspel. You don't get instantly banned and silenced here, you retarded mong.

One day, I would like to read a CofD/WoD General that didn't end up reading like a broken record. Some of you gotta learn to ignore things or just resist the temptation to have the last word.

Ok, so. Secrets of the Covenants. It's actually coming out this year, miraculously. Do we have any idea what's in it besides the playtest stuff? Was there an outline in open dev that I missed?

>>50535233
Doug, eat shit and die.

>>50537189

The thing i like about 4chan is that i can call you a delusional waste of a human being and not get banned for it while 2 post later i get called a faggot and nobody gets banned.

Speaking of which why arent you on rpg.net aspel? Isnt that forum more your style?

>>50537251
That's what you get for trying to engage with that thing as a human. Ignore Aspel, report if you must.

But don't reply, because look at what happened to this fucking thread. Its all the fault of people like you, responding to that subhuman garbage.

>>50537189
>You'd be too afraid to say something like that on RPG.net.
Different social circumstance bucko, here you're allowed to say whatever the fuck you want. There, you get banned for doing that, so other people's mean nasty icky backwards priviledged opinions can't hurt you.

You're allowed to voice your shitty opinions, and we're allowed to voice our shitty opinions in response.

Please, say what you want to say. And we'll respond with the same courtesy.

If it were truly a "safe space" your ass would have been banned by now.

>>50537474
>And we'll respond with the same courtesy.
Or not give you the time of day, as the case may be.

>>50537714
>Why should we accept a system that picks the loser?
Because direct democracies are hilariously bad and representative democracies are for demagogues

>>50537714
Oh, thanks for admiring you're a ban-dodger too, along with your shit-stiring!

Everyone, report.

>>50537887
There's posts all over Twitter confirming that did in fact happen

>>50537914
well if twitter says so then it must be fact.

>>50537943
No, I mean people on Twitter are saying these things, not that people on Twitter are saying people are saying these things.

>>50538011
Yeah, I'm still waiting for proof of those 3 million illegal voters.

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>>50538126
You know who would have really made America great again?
AMERICA'S ONLY DEFENSE AGAINST COMMUNISM

>>50538177
>He denies that a country that was once tied for "World's most powerful country" was ever great

I sure fucking love talking about the World of Darkness, I fucking love that shit.

Holy fucking shit! Mods=Gods for once.

Normally, i wouldn't start a thread so early, but this is uber shit.

>>50538384

>>50538407
No, no need. Mods did their job.

Wait, looking around...did the mod cut out literally every one of Aspel's posts? Yess!

>>50538421
Oh wow, I didn't see. Thank you mods.

>>50538455
So, then, back on topic.

What's your favorite splat?

>>50538492

Geist, warts and all, has a very special place in my heart.

>>50538492
I feel like anything other than Vampire and Werewolf are just side-spookies. Out of those two, I'd go with Vampire being my favourite.

MODS = GODS

>>50538492
Changeling, son.
Best fucking splat hands down.

>>50538447

I would have preferred the responses to their posts to go as well, but beggers can't be choosers. Anyone try out the new Orpheus game yet?

>>50538492
Mage and Demon. I love Vampire conceptually, but something about it never clicked with my gaming groups. Mages, with their infinate potential and easy draw of, "Hey, want to do this crazy thing? Well you can do it in Mage." has spawned some pretty fun games.

Demon has a great concept that I have yet to play, but include as NPCs in a game every now and again.

>>50538556
I haven't, and I haven't heard much about it. Anything good you've heard?

>>50538492

Mummy is my favorite CofD game, but I think Changeling, Promethean, and Vampire are the best.

Wraith and Dark Ages are the only good parts of WoD.

>>50538573

Nothing from other people, but the samples seem interesting: https://ear-play.com/stories/the-orpheus-device/

>>50538594
Oh, neat, thank you.

>>50538580
I liked OWerewolf conceptually, being THE apex muderbeast. The rest, not so much, but I really liked the power-level of kill fuk'n everything and hanging out in Chirnos.

>>50538492
Mage is the only one that ever held my attention. Much as I try, I just can't seem to find much in the others that interests me, especially Vampire.

The new Demon looks pretty cool, though.

>>50538644
>racist stereotypes hang out and have hyperviolent Captain Planet adventures against the most blatantly evil antagonist of all time

Never really understood the hype.

>>50538678

Demon is indeed very,very good. Don't listen to the people who bitch about the God-Machine, they haven't actually read the book.

>>50538693
Atamajakki, darling.

What did I call out? The whole Murderbeast part? And the rest as kinda ehh?

White Wolf offically had 26 more days to release their mobile game to kick off 5th edition? Will they truly prove themselves to be OG White Wolf's successor by not actually releasing on time? I guess we'll find out!

>>50538730

I'm aware, but I like complaining about Apocalypse.

Especially because it's the only bad Dark Ages gameline, in that it's the exact same thing as the modern setting!

>>50538492
I mostly care for Hunter (2e news never) and Vampire, but I'd gladly play Promethean if I had the chance, and maybe Werewolf once I get a hang on the rules.

why does this thread have so many deleted posts?

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>tfw dark eras arrives in the mail 2 years after you stopped caring about it

at least the 50s New Zealand ghosts setting is kinda cool

>>50539783
Because Aspel is a faggot and the mod finally decided to axe him. We were over 350 posts, and once the pruning was done, down to 170.

>>50539818
is he some sort of tripfag then?

>>50539818
Who the fuck is aspel?

>>50539840
If you want to know more, check the archives. I'm not derailing to talk about it anymore.

>>50539840
>>50539912
He's the boogieman of the wod threads - anyone makes a post with an opinion people don't lie and they're Aspel; an annoying faggot from the days of yore who passed into urban myth

>>50534790
Well, vampires are hardly alone in being fire's bitch. Prometheans and Mummies also possess that Bane.

>>50535233
>Oh fuck off. Or follow your own advice and ignore me, you whiny shit.

We can't, you bloody idiot. Because you specifically refuse to use a trip, so people can ignore you. Out of spite.

Let's say a Ventrue takes Nightmare as one of his three starter disciplines. Can he raise it as an out of clan disciplines without drinking another vampire's blood?

>>50538693
>Never really understood the hype.

Personally is my favorite splat. Werewolf the Apocalypse has this barbaric society in modern times that you have to live in and to a degree fight against. Ancient traditions, social rites and sword duels along side modern attitudes and technology. Dying fighting the Wyrm is fun and all but that what stupid werewolves do, smart one set social changes in their sept/tribe by diplomacy, multi-generational treaties and plain old war.

Its a niche that hasnt being filled by any other splat new or old just yet.

>>50541929
Yeah, it has cool ideas. Sadly, it's ruined by having EXTREMELY silly themes. Like luddism and anti-science.

>>50541945
Thematic inconstancies is a given for like all oWOD splats.

>>50542033

The biggest problem is that they are consistently bad.

>>50541945
Once again, those are horribly exaggerated by the anti-fanbase. It's like saying that Apocalypse is anti-spiritual balance because the spiritual force of balance is evil and insane.

Has anyone ever used the Reality-Bending Horror stuff from Second Sight? If so, how'd it go?

>>50542348
When the big enemies are technology and pollution, you don't have to exaggerate.

>>50541945
I dunno. Anti-modernist themes trigger the living shit out of some people but I had a lot of fun playing wizards in a world where science and technology are basically a conspiracy against the human race. Some people consider owod's ill-conceived anti-authoritarian bent cringy but I see adolescent charm in it. Down with the system!

>>50542379
Well, pollution is a horrible problem, up to the level of "major geopolitical security threat" IRL, so there's no need to argue that point. As for technology, it's never been the enemy in and of itself, it's just that the bad guys tend to be better at using it/have more of it than the good guys. Which is the case in practically every story ever in which the good guys are the underdogs.

>>50542425
Technology is one of the main aspects of the Weaver.

>>50542448
Destruction is one of the main aspects of the Wyrm, and werewolves destroy shit all the time. Are they evil Wyrmspawn?

>>50542581
Considering their actions throughout history? Madly raging to try to destroy destruction.
Yeah. I'd say so.

>>50542610
If so, it's clearly an indication that the game is more complex than "technology ebul," no?

10 Days until Hurt Locker and Secrets of the Covenants

>>50542676
More? Yeah. But at it's core it's "the man bad. corporations are the man. kill corporates."

>>50542784
It's more that one (mega-) corporation is evil. If all of them were, the Corporate Wolves wouldn't be a thing.

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>>50542795
What do you mean all corporations aren't evil, comrade?

>>50518962
>what's your least favorite part of CofD?

The fact that it is not WoD.
CofD shouldn't even exist.

>>50538580
>Mummy is my favorite CofD game

>TFW the Dark Eras Companion with Sekhem Sorcery and Mage crossover rules will probably not be released until 2066

>>50533935
I would say Beast.

>>50534608
I think that's easily defensible approach. Just say it's more about mystical aspect of sun regarding curse of vampirism than about light frequency. Then you could extend it to psychological effects of of fake sunlight inducing rotschreck although not actually doing any damage.
Next question after that would be about sun light in astral or Shadow. Although not real sunlight, it could be argued it has the exact mystical properties to set off the curse.

>>50540927
I would like to know this too.

>>50542756
Wasn't it supposed to be this week?

>>50543372
It will be released just before Mummy 2e which will completely revamp sekhem sorcery.

>>50543565

Last week's Monday Meeting said "two weeks", which should put it on the 14th. It'd be real cool if it was on the 7th, though!

>It will be released just before Mummy 2e which will completely revamp Sekhem Sorcery

Why must you hurt me? Why must you so me dirty like this?

>>50538447
Aspel and everyone who was arguing with Aspel.

The only remaining Aspel-related posts are the "do not engage with Aspel" type posts.

And this one, ostensibly.

>>50538492
I fucking love Demon tfw you will never get to play Demon

What's your stance on murdering party members on one-shots in Vampire?

I have nothing against Demon, but I always felt it didn't "fit" right with the entirety of the CofD, even with the existence of the God Machine (and I was never a big fan of the GM as a big bad or included it in my games). I think I just prefer more classic monster like vampires, werewolves, ghosts, spirits, fae, wizards, etc.

>>50544037
Which Demon?

>>50544070
Like, as a fellow PC?

I wouldn't do it. Screwing over your fellow PCs for advantages you're not even going to get to use since you won't be able to play later sessions isn't likely worth the hurt feelings of being betrayed/stabbed in the back and "losing the game".

You can ignore this advice if you know everyone in the group considers the backstabbing to be part of the fun of playing Vampires. Most players go into most games under the assumption that the PCs are going to be working together, though.

>>50544137
I like the God-Machine absolutely fine in Demon, but don't like including it anywhere else. It's too monolithic and omnipresent to not be a huge part of the setting if it's going to exist.

>>50544070

If it's really a one-shot, why would the death matter at all? Besides, one-shots are always fun because players are motivated to go out with an entertaining blaze of glory.

>>50544145
new Demon

>>50544161

Also, as a primary Mage fan, I always felt like the God Machine didn't integrate well the Exarch and Supernal cosmology.

>>50544191
I've figured out ways to reconcile them, but it took a hell of a lot of doing, and it's pure headcanon/houserule.

Of course, the Exarchs only necessarily exist in my games if I'm playing Mage, so.

>>50544202

Well before the God Machine Chronicles, I liked the tidbits about a "God Machine" and supernatural "gears" in the old core and mage books and its potential connection to the Aether and Obrimos mages. It was a fun Obrimos hook without the usual religious connotations.

I personally would have much preferred if OPP decided to go in that route in the GMC, particularly since it would have been nice for the Obrimos to have their own outer-dimensional connections like the Thyrsus/Shadow, Moros/Underworld and Mastigos/Astral (I also believed that an Obrimos connection to the Principle from Promethean would have been fun).

>>50544349
>(I also believed that an Obrimos connection to the Principle from Promethean would have been fun).
This particular theory bothers me just because Not Fitting In With Anybody's Cosmology and Not Belonging is the whole DEAL of Promethean.

>>50544148
The DM motivated people to have their own agenda too, and said fight among ourselves to me personally as I knew him beforehand unlike the other players.
Too bad the DM is really busy,which is why this is a one-shot,and I'm basically in a third-world country so finding other people is a pain.

>>50543608
http://theonyxpath.com/leftovers-monday-meeting-notes/
>CofD Hurt Locker – Advance PDF version on sale next Wednesday, Dec 7th.
>Secrets of the Covenants – Advance PDF version on sale next Wednesday, Dec 7th.

>>50544938

Well shit. Three days then.

Are there gods/godlike beings in Cfod?

>>50545222
The Exarchs are evil deities who already won and rule the earth from the Supernal as tyrants.

The God Machine, The Dark Mother and The Principle are all deity-level superbeings that may or may not exist, may or may not be related and may or may not be the same thing.

There are Rank 6-10 spirits that are considered Gods within their animistic purview, increasing in power until you get to Rank 9/10 where you have Luna (Moon god), Helios (Sun God) and Gaia (Planet God).

Presumably there are others. Or maybe none of these exist. Who knows.

>>50545271
>The God Machine, The Dark Mother and The Principle are all deity-level superbeings that may or may not exist, may or may not be related and may or may not be the same thing.
I'm pretty sure the God Machine exists more concretely than most any other deity-grade thing in the setting.

It's just not one specific being.

>>50545271

In Mage 2e, the Exarchs definitely exist. The communicate directly with Seers and their Ochemata exist in the Fallen World.

>>50545448
Just because a schizophrenic says God is speaking to him, doesn't mean they are.

>>50545448
The Exarchs definitely exist, and we know roughly what they are (i.e. symbols of particularly human-philosophically-focused Power/Control/Dominance/Oppression), but any more than that is up for debate.

The Seers really push for the "They're Ascended mortal Mages" because that means they might be able to become Exarchs too.

>>50545484
The Exarchs explicitly exist. 2e core makes no illusions about it, and Dave has posted that the existence of the Exarchs has always been a fact, way back to the original setting bible. Something along the lines of "certain groups in-setting believe the Exarchs don't exist, but they're wrong".

>>50545549
>The Exarchs explicitly exist.

Bet the Pope would say the same about his imaginary friend in the sky, as long as that kept the sheeple in check

>>50545500

Considering that the Exarchs are real but the Oracles aren't, and how much betrayal and backstabbing plays a part in Seerdom, my bets are that the Exarchs are probably just forces of nature and not Ascended Mages. Tyranny and its manifestations, for the moment, have always been in control.

>>50545574
There are out-of-character, omniscient-narrator statements confirming that the Exarchs exist.

This is not an in-setting opinion thing.

Again, certain characters in-setting probably believe that the Exarchs don't exist, but they're wrong.

What rank would the spirit of gravity be? Or rather not of gravity, Gravity itself.

I was thinking somewhere between 7-9.

>>50542405
>Some people consider owod's ill-conceived anti-authoritarian bent cringy but I see adolescent charm in it. Down with the system!
Same here, especially with the Technocracy. The idea of the main antagonist being a global science Illuminati bent on crushing magic beneath its heel (for the good of all, of course) is just fun.

>>50545643
Well in the Shadow there is no gravity, it's just Helios pushing everything inward towards the ground with his unrelenting magnificence.

Gravity spirits would would be on the same level as fire spirits, since they are both affected equally by for example Forces spells.

>>50545587
The Oracles are in the category of "probably real, but not explicitly stated as such the way the Exarchs are". The Watchtowers themselves are Talismans of what-may-as-well-be-called-Oracles.

The Oracles, assuming they do exist, seem to have a policy of not involving themselves in the Phenomenal World at all, beyond letting their Talismans do what they do, so they're effectively a non-entity (unless you feel like having your PCs start getting Supernal messages from the King with the Burning Voice, or whatever, in your games, which you're perfectly allowed to do).

I was under the impression that the exarchs rule over more than just earth they're fucking over the entire tapestry e.g. visible universe, all flavors of twilight, the shadow, emanation realms, astral, etc.

>>50545687
Perhaps, but unless your Mage character on Jupiter or fancies trying to negotiate with it in the Astral, don't really see how that's important

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Stupid question time:

I'm trying to make a new Earth Breaker. From what I'm reading on forums, I can add multiple enhancements UP TO +10.

Can I have a Frost Flame Electric Acid Earth Breaker +5? Or is that a no go?

>>50545687

The Shadow, Underworld and Astra are part of the Fallen World and thus under the influence of the Exarchs.

Twilight is a state of being, not a dimension.

>>50545687
Not really?

They might, but they don't really give a shit about any planets that don't have humans on them.

That's one of the big differences between the Exarchs and the God-Machine: the God-Machine sees humans as incidentally-useful tools to furthering its complex plans. Humans are, largely, the POINT of the Exarchs' plans.

>>50545587
Have a Davepost from RPGnet while I go looking for a post he made recently-ish on how the Exarchs and the God-Machine view each other.

>Unlike the Exarchs, there's no evidence that the Oracles exist* (they don't send avatars, Supernal beings don't know about them) so they are a myth.
>(* at the level of a normal character, at least. Archmasters - who can go wandering in the Supernal for short trips - can see that the Watchtowers themselves are, in fact, products of the same process as the Exarch's Ochemata. Someone made them. That doesn't mean anything about the Diamond Orders' suppositions about their motivations are correct, and if the Exarchs might not be formerly-human ascendees it goes double for the Oracles)

>>50543372

My twin! Looking forward to the Companion being the last Mummy content for two years?

>>50546193

Sorry, not a twin. I'm really just mostly looking forward to the Mage material, and since I like crossover, the necessary tidbits that might update Mummy for 2e rules if I later want to include mummies in my games. The Sekhem Sorcerers might also provide some interesting material for "lesser" mage Sleepwalkers.

as Dark Eras was also an overall great read, I am looking forward to it regardless of the specific Mage material.

As for Mummy, aren't there some Necropolis or other supplements besides the Companion still unreleased?

>Something gives Seers of the Throne commands in all-caps voice to do things that keep humanity in the muck. Supernal Entities talk about the Thrones. Every now and again a mage interrupts what he thinks is some kind of ephemeral entity up to no good in a quiet corner of the cosmos, only for it to turn out to be an Ochemata (an avatar-form of one of the Exarchs).
>That they exist is a fact of the setting. That they were human mages who turned into what they are now is the possibly-not-true legend.
>But even then, some Pentacle mages have Ascended and become Supernal symbols themselves. Every Acanthus who's ever used Arthurian symbols in her spells is calling on the entity formerly known as the Silver Ladder archmaster Merlin. As mages are human, and humans are in general assholes, who's to say that the symbols of oppression and control ruling the universe aren't ascended mortals?
>They just don't have to be.

>>50546395

There's Necropolis: Rio, the Dark Eras Companion, and then some content in the Crossover Chronicle.

I'll go to my grave sad about Book of Going Westward not happening, but maybe it'll be a 2e supplement.

>Although orthodox Seer teachings say the Exarchs subverted the Watchtowers for their own ends, Gemini began to wonder if that was the only possible explanation. Although a few Seers reported they had been forcibly dragged to a Watchtower against their will, the vast majority reported they had fought their way there of their own accord, just as the Pentacle mages had. Given there was little or no difference to the style of story, Gemini postulated that the Exarchs had actually created the Watchtowers, and not the Oracles

>As time went on, he further refined his theory. He eventually came to the conclusion that there were no Oracles, at least not as the Pentacle portrayed them. Gemini believed that the Oracles were, in fact, part of the Exarch pantheon. Instead of being the Exarchs mortal enemies, the Oracles actually worked side by side with them and shared the same goals

How would it change the setting if that were true?

So, with Requiem for Rome, what position would Zoroastrian vampires be in, politically? They're monotheistic (well, dualist) but aren't Christian and aren't particularly opposed to Roman paganism, so would they be considered part of the Camarilla establishment by default? How much would it matter that nearly all of them would be Daeva--or, conversely, what would happen if Zoroastrian vampires started proselytizing?

>>50547253

I'm not terribly sure there would be enough of them in Rome for the Camarilla to have an opinion on. They'd be Peregrines,just like the rest of the foreigners.

>>50547314
I ask because the religious struggle is the thing that interests me most about the setting--that, and the Camarilla itself. Christianity is right out as an allegiance, both because I prefer the Camarilla and because Roman Christianity is much too vicious for my tastes, so I'm considering other options, since it's tricky to choose a thematically satisfying type of paganism.

How does Adamant Hand work in 2e? It looks like you add your dots in a combat skill to the spell role, like an all-purpose rote.

>>50547458
Each variant of Adamant hand functions as a +1 order yantra.

>>50546638
>Mummy
>2e supplement
>this lifetime

Jakki, you are indeed forever the optimist.

>>50547458
>>50547610
It's main advantage is extra reflexive yantras for instant casting in combat.

>>50547742

Look, all we have to do is create the ACTUAL Rite of Return, and then we can just ride out the wait to Mummy 2e. Easy!

>>50547458
>>50547610

Adamant Hand allows a mage to use the applicable skill as a +1 Order Yantra.

For instance, instead of sitting around for a turn doing nothing but employing a Yantra for a spell, a mage with Adamant Hand can perform a Brawl, Weaponry or Athletics (Dodge) action and also receive as +1 Yantra spellcasting bonus (subject to Yantra limits) to a given spell the same turn, for the very rare reflexive spell, or a following turn for most spells.

Simply, instead of sitting around with you wand waving in the wind as you employ a Yantra for a spell while a Abyssal creature tries to rip you to shreds, a Arrow with Adamant Hand can engage in certain combat or dodge actions and then use such conduct as a +1 Yantra for a spell.

As an aside, it would have been nice of Adamant Hand also included Firearms as a skill besides Brawl, Weaponry and Athletics.

>>50547858

True, although I'm not entirely confident that we'll see Mummy 2e before the next Sothic Turn.

>>50547838

Unless a mage is employing a very rare reflexive spell, the Adamant Hand Yantra bonus cannot be used in the same turn as an instant spell.

>>50547893
Magical throwing stars.

>>50548073

Do throwing star use Firearms or Athletics?

>>50548154
>Do throwing star use Firearms or Athletics?

Depends, are you a ninja?

>>50548154

Also, do bows use Firearms, Athletics or another skill?

>>50548188

Modern era Athletics
Pre-modern 'Firearms'

But it could be both depending on your storyteller.

>>50544191
I reconciled it with the Machine being a creation of the Exarchs.

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>tfw want to play a True Brujah in a VtM game now

Save me, I have a character concept and everything. I'm not trying to be an OP edgelord snowflake I swear.

>>50548161
>are you a ninja?

How about a classically stealthy, non-culturally-appropriative warrior monk, or is that too Free Council?

>>50548283
Sounds to me like you're not a ninja, so you use the lower of the two abilities

>>50548266

In Imperial Mysteries, there's a small story hook were it's implied that the God Machine is a fallen supernal god ejected by the Exarchs that is employing a cosmic matrix to reascend.

>>50548274
What is a True Brujah?

>>50548314

See Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand for classic Masquerade of Vampire 20th Anniversary.

I believe the True Brujah might even have an entry in the V20 corebook.

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>>50544137
There is always a solution.

>>50548341
They do. They're supposed claimants to the Brujah's true ancestry as emotionally deadened scholars who have a special time control discipline instead of Celerity.

>>50548377

Indeed. I can understand why many like Demon, and unlike game lines like Beast, I believe it certainly has its merits and is well written (ironically, the Storyteller's Guide has one of the best written crossover sections in the CofD), but to me it seems like it should be a separate or alternative setting rather than part of the CofD. YMMV.

>>50548073
This has got me curious. So say I combine a throwing knife, with a rifle cartridge, and a grenade with "wonderful machine".

So would I now have a throwing star with rifle range/speed/damage that explodes like a grenade after impact?

Speaking of yantras, one of the listed options for Mirrors is a container filled with water. Does that mean I can use a Cup as a Mirror whenever I have water on hand?

>>50548737
Sure. You're probably not going to be walking around with a full set of magical tools. Improvise with what you got.

>>50548737
>>50548785
Sorry I forgot to add if it's made of a material appropriate for your path.

>Read about Awakening
>Symbols, symbols, symbols...

I'm a dumbass. What is meant by symbols?

>>50548737

If the cup is sufficiently polished to act as a mirror, sure, why not.

Using your shiny cup as both mirror and cup Path Yantras, however, will still take-up two of your character's Yantra slots. There no Yantra double-dipping.

>>50548929
Platonic symbols are the Supernal truth of reality. Magic is making those symbols real. As a player, you mostly need to worry about making Yantras that apply to the spells you want.

>>50548953
Can you explain jargon without using more jargon?

If a material sympathy yantra is two dice, does that mean you should eat a booger or something whenever you cast a spell on yourself?

>>50548929

The game is very Gnostic. If you haven't done so, it would be best to read Mage 2e with particular attention to the Yantra section, and pose any questions you might have.

However, by way of example, one of the standard Path tools using in spellcasting is a wand or rod. It's a symbol of rulership and command, of martial prowess and aiming, and of men and male fertility. When using such a tool with the appropriate spell, you'll receive a bonus to your roll.

>>50548311
I had it rumored to be the machine that the Exarchs used to ascend. Of course I clearly point out that no one, quite possibly the machine it's self knows who made it, or what it's true function really is.

>>50548976
Everything that exists, from fire to freedom, exists as an abstract symbol in the Supernal realm - it exists BECAUSE of the Supernal symbol. Mages can use those symbols to create phenomena in the material world.

>>50548976

There is a world of pure truth known as the Supernal, and echoes of the symbols/Platonic ideals that fill it filter down into our more base, Fallen reality. The Awakened can call upon the sympathies of these symbols to bring the, into existence, and thus work magic.

>>50548737
Any (sufficiently) reflective surface qualifies as a mirror, so yes.

>>50548929
A symbol is a thing that represents or means something without literally being that thing (or even a thing that physically exists). A tuxedo is a symbol of class, wealth, or formality. A light bulb is both literally a lightbulb, and a symbol of enlightenment (often in the sense of sudden enlightenment, an idea, or a "eureka moment"). The figure of the grim reaper is a symbol of death. The number two is a symbol.

If it helps, think of symbols as "concepts" or "meanings".

>>50540927
I believe he needs a teacher based on the way it's worded:
>any vampire who possesses the Discipline at a higher level than the vampire who's learning will do
If you just needed a teacher when you picked up the Discipline for the first time then the "higher level" clarification would be unnecessary.

>>50545744
Anyone know?

If I use my dedicated magical tool in more than one way, does that reduce the paradox roll by more than two?

>The Dreaming is lighter and softer, they said.

Fuck, The Dreaming is FAR darker than The Lost..

>>50552237