/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>50479268
Beast /thread

>>50479214
>Don't really see how, and Resilience is much better than that Merit. And that Merit is much better with Resilience.
Oops. I meant Coil of the Wyrm 5

>>50479317
Coil of the Wyrm 5 is much better.
Dying On Your Feet means not going into Torpor until combat is over.
Eternal Frenzy means not going into Torpor until Frenzy is over, and that Frenzy is, well... says it right there on the tin.

In Eternal Frenzy you also get to add Blood Potency to attacks, Defense, Speed, and Health.

>>50479405
Eternal Frenzy is one of the strongest powers in the game, as the character gets up in Blood Potency.
It's so insanely hard to rival the defence of a master of the Wyrm.

Add to that maxed Celerity, a shield, and a spear. Yeah. Godlike.

>>50479268
I don't know. All splats can have pretty edgy characters. Worst I had was a 14 year old Nosferatu embraced after his family was killed during WWI and permanently wore a gas mask, but I vetoed it.

>>50479405
Will you be taking a side order of Riding the Wave style with that good sir?

>>50479504
That's a pretty dull blade there. I couldn't even get a paper cut from the concept. Besides the age thing, that is still a valid idea.

>>50479618
Wyrm makes that style rather redundant, desu.

>>50479646
I dread to think what edge you came across to consider century-old orphan child vampires not very edgy.

>>50479652
Only In The Zone is really "Redundant" with Leash the Beast (spending Willpower to Ride is also unnecessary, but you still can and so Unyielding still benefits).
The other three features aren't *redundant*, though there is a certain point where enough is enough, and Ride the Wave + Coil of Wyrm both at 5 is ridiculous.

Of course, someone was saying Dying On Your Feet competes with Coil of Wyrm 5, but Dying On Your Feet is a Carthian Fighting Merit and not the capstone of a fucking amazing Coil.

>>50479692
I think what anon is saying is that he's seen edgier.
It's sort of like the Salty Spitoon meme.

>>50479746
Coil of the Wyrm is fucking amazing, though it's always been Voivode that appealed to me most.

Am I the only one that finds Requiem's red cursive absolutely unreadable?

I could parse it out after looking at it for a minute or two, but it's extremely hard to distinguish at a glance for me.

>>50479618
I'd rather have Rites of the Impaled.

>>50479746
>I think what anon is saying is that he's seen edgier.
That's what I was saying as well. I'm afraid to know what those edgy characters are.

>>50479822
If you think this is bad, you should have seen 1e.

>>50479881
1ed awakening Gold print

>>50479769
Here's hoping that Secrets of the Covenants has more Coils than just the 3 they previewed.

Question:
Does dissonance happen if sleepers who are no longer sleepers see magic?

For example, a Thyrus turns a roomful of sleepers into rats and gives it Indefinite Duration. Does the Abyss try and break that spell down since the human-minded rats know Magic was done on them?

>>50479906
Yeah. That was also bad.

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>>50479077
But why? What possible good comes from morbidly avoiding every and any topic that makes us feel negative emotion? And why are you so intellectually bankrupt that you can't admit wholesale censorship of themes that, in your own words, "*triggers* an intense negative emotion" -- spells the death knell of a horror game, a fucking WORLD of horror games, based literally on monsters who feed and prey on human beings, devour souls, drink blood, ruin lives and other things that can, do and should trigger intense negative emotions in the viewer?

If I shield a little boy from everything that could scare, upset or hurt him, in 18 years I have a neurotic, emotionally crippled adult with no resiliency whatsoever, incapable of joining the adult world for fear of sharp edges. Maybe that actually happened to a bunch of kids 18 years ago, I don't know, but I'm not doing grown adults any favours by treating them like mentally ill torture survivors.

If I remove everything from the World of Darkness that could cause negative feelings, there is almost nothing left. "It's like our world, except... not... and there are conspiracies... or not, if that's particularly upsetting...."

Also, there is no guarantee the X card won't be mistreated and abused. Who are you to say what someone else finds triggering, Aspel?

Also, we're not talking elfgames, we're talking fucking horror games. If someone is recovering from heavy, heavy psychological shit, maybe games involving blatant metaphors for depersonalisation, sexual asssault and mental illness are a fucking stupid idea to begin with.

Stop justifying stupid players doing some hyper-leftist radical postmodern meltdowns for the sake of attention. White Wolf themselves have passed down the advice to us: STOP BANNING CONTENT, START BANNING SHITTY PLAYERS.

>>50480081
Aw shit there back

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>>50479957

>>50480081

Go back to your dumpster fire of a thread and go make your dumb impassioned plea to someone that cares, we're talking about WoD/CofD things now.

>>50479933

At this point who knows what'll actually make it to the book. It's kind of exciting!

I know its beaten to death but is there a date for hurt locker and not just" a few weeks"

>>50480161
>Denies one enthusiasm
>Enthusiastic exclamation mark

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>>50480081
I feel like you are completely misunderstanding this topic. Whether or not it's intentional or simply an inability to grasp the intricacies, I would rather not continue.

I'm playing the X-Card on this conversation. Please respect that.

Here is some reading material to better understand the X-Card system and it's uses.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SB0jsx34bWHZWbnNIVVuMjhDkrdFGo1_hSC2BWPlI3A/edit
http://story-games.com/forums/discussion/18533/using-the-x-card
https://web.archive.org/web/20121027232907/http://thisjustinfromgencon.com/2012/08/20/this-just-in-from-clyde-an-interview-with-john-stavropoulos-of-nerdnyc
http://www.gamingaswomen.com/posts/2013/01/finding-my-o-with-the-x-card/

When you add the O Card it really does become a BDSM thing...

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>>50480185
>playing the X-Card on this conversation

>>50480180

December 7th. Same day as Secrets of the Covenants.

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>>50480280

>>50479957
Yes. Otherwise the go to move is to transform your enemies into bacteria and enact the most soul wounding vore larp in front of your friends whenever you want to kill somebody.

Turn em all into fish and the issue sorts itself out in ten minutes. Argue with the ST that your victims will be so desperate to breathe that they forgot they ever were people

>>50480352
But you actually can do that. Dissonance only happens at the end of the scene, and if you can turn someone into a frog and step on them, they don't become people again.

What's to stop a thyrsus from altering a tree with three dots of life into making it flexible and thrashy as a snake and then dominating every physical encounter with the buggering birch?

>>50480378
Doesnt each polymorph victim get a saving throw to disbelief the situation theyre in? And doesnt the disbelief happen each time the rat person notices his friends are now rats?

WHAT happens if you poly someone into something small and lock them ina tiny safe and dispel it?

Do people turned rats quickly forget they were ever people and just become dumb animals once they fail the first saving throw or can furry inclined mages make slutty mares for their mlp larps. Pls answer each of my concerns in depth :3

>>50480431
>Dare you enter my magical realm?

THIS
DUMPSTER'S
ON FIRE

THIS
DUMPSTER'S
ON FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRE

>>50480431
>Dissonance only happens at the end of the scene

>WHAT happens if you poly someone into something small and lock them ina tiny safe and dispel it?
They grow large in a tiny space and physics take over.

>World of Darkness is urban fantasy
>Dracula despises Urban Fantasy.

Confused - 10/10

>>50480377
>too bad it's just your reinterpretation of/impression from the book and not something what was actually written there. I agree that this way it would work much better.
Actually beasts do have an ability where no matter what you did, at worst if you spend I think it was 48h away from the victim, everything you did was A-OK again.

Thing is, neither that nor the whole "kin" system work on the unchained.

>>50480185
No, you being such a bitch makes me want to continue when before it should have died. The thing that should die here is you. Kill yourself.

>>50480693
Not really.

Also, that person misunderstands how Demons work, too. Yes, they edit reality, but that doesn't mean it's not a shock that Bob your uncle is actually someone who double-secret ultra killed Bob and took his place.

>>50480593

No you see, WoD is different because you're all sad and stuff!

In all seriousness: CofD and WoD are horror games and are designed to be so, but just so happen to have rules general enough and tend to be so setting-rich that it's very easy to play them as urban fantasy. Changeling the Dreaming, for example, can get pretty dark, but it's also the most Urban Fantasy out of the lot. Geist the Sin-Eaters is another game that leans heavy on the Urban Fantasy as well, though obviously it can be pretty spooky.

It's still really weird that Dracula has such a hatred for Urban Fantasy, though, since WoD being a formative factor in the genre's birth ensures that it always has some kind of horror aspect to it. UF books used to share space with horror books for quite a while, and still do in some cases.

>>50480843
Urban fantasy and horror are not mutually exclusive. The type of horror that World of Darkness explores *is* urban fantasy. That is, it is fantasy elements set in a modern urban world.

>UF books used to share space with horror books for quite a while, and still do in some cases.
I read an anthology that had a forward I really liked but I can't remember the exact words or what book it was. But it was such a good quote, something like:
>Urban Fantasy is the bastard of Gothic Horror and Noir.

>>50480769
Only if it's ever shown to them (like when the thing takes off its Bob-hat and the fuel-drain tentacles come out). It's a hell of a breaking point if it does happen, but as long as it's not, Bob's your uncle. He was never *not* your uncle, even if, as far as the demon knows, he only became your uncle bob last week.

Turning stuff into your cover widely affects people; that's how everyone and the records show you're a graduate of such or such highschool, and have an appartment at such or such a place. In fact lower cover ratings are full of holes there which is how people could get suspicious.

>>50479438
>Add to that ... a shield, and a spear
What respectable vampire would use that? This is not Roman legion, vampires are savage and bloodthirsty monsters - Claws of the Unholy ftw.

>>50479822
>>50479881
>>50479906
Yeah. It's rather bad, but still improvement.

>>50479933
Actually there were only 2 Coils previewed. And I wouldn't expect more :(

>>50480185
This is fucking 4chan. Wretched hive of scum and villainy. Dark corner of internet. Home of alt-right neonazis, weeb fedoras, misogynist gamergaters and mlp fans.
You think anyone cares?

>>50480431
>Doesnt each polymorph victim get a saving throw to disbelief the situation theyre in?
Nothing about that in rules. They can just withstand it with stamina.

>>50480693
Reading what I was reacting to again, I seem to have misunderstood 3rd paragraph (second language...), which lead me completely astray. That caused my reaction to be non sequitor and in the context not mean what it was supposed to.

>>50480593
Some people tend to equate urban and contemporary fantasy. Urban fantasy doesn't have to be contemporary and vice versa. WoD isn't necessarily urban fantasy either. For instance in Werewolf you can quite easily do without urban elements, in Vampire it's hardly possible.

>>50481130
That explains it. I found it odd that someone would argue against whether or not an ability is in the book.

>>50480964

They're not mutually exclusive, but that doesn't make WoD's originally intended style of horror "Urban Fantasy". Its horror was meant to be more specific and personal than many future Urban Fantasy stories. Calling it "Personal Horror" wasn't completely marketing. Just, you know, 90% marketing.

Which is probably why Dracula doesn't like UF as a direction for his edition. For him, it's all about getting back to the basics, which is why he's so adamant on reviving the 1e/early 2e material. Urban Fantasy just makes things too thematically broad for him, since it's Fantasy, Horror, Noir/Crime Fiction, and occasionally Science Fiction rolled up into one.

Of course, that broadened scope is why the game became so popular and memorable once the initial VtM buzz died down, so trying to eschew the term and the genre is a terrible idea.

What I'm getting at, I suppose, is that Dracula's comments make sense if you remember how Pathfinder marketed itself over D&D: it claimed was the true successor to the name and Paizo were the only people carrying on the spirit of 3.x era WotC and TSR.

White Wolf, and Dracula in particular, has similar tactics: "Personal Horror" over "Urban Fantasy", making a documentary about WoD, hype over how they're making blood drinking "really matter", and making sure that their first announcement of the new brand had Mark Rein•Hagen in attendance. It's all to establish that WWP is merely the natural and legit continuation of the brand, not intruding meddlers or nostalgia hounds.

Whether or not that's actually working is up to you.

Who the fuck is Dracula?

>>50481495
>In a thread about vampires
>Not knowing Dracula

>>50481429
So, I'm going to be running a 2e Changeling the Lost game using the play test packet. I noticed a few things missing, nothing major.

I'm going to make it easy on myself and use the Seasons free hold.
While the Storytelling contract is missing and I'm not exactly concerned about it the Emotions contracts are, and so are the Mantels. I can BS up the mantels pretty easily.

Do you think I can just import the 1e Contracts?
Also Tokens...I was just thinking of letting them be an Item with a resource value up to the dots of the Merit that has a contract of up to dots built in. Is that too powerful?

>>50481495
The guy from the new Software company that bought White Wolf from CCP. He's the guy in change of White Wolf Publishing. How he came to be called Dracula I don't know I'm assuming it's something the community here Ascribed to him but...don't know. Don't Care.

>>50480081
Seems like every time I lurk /cofd/ it's always talking about SJW bullshit. I'm glad that not everyone that plays these games is a retard.

>>50481652
Welcome to the internet. The people who yell the loudest get heard the most, and the ones who are organized don't let the rest of us get answers to our questions.

Of course I'm not sure how well they would do if people just patted them on the head said "okay, that's a valid opinion" and stopped responding to them after that.

>>50481628

He portrays Dracula in the Vampire the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition art. That's about it.

His real name is Martin Ericcson. While just calling him Martin would invoke one of Romero's best films and one of the best vampire films of the 70s, that's not as catchy as Dracula.

>>50481685
encouragement or validation of another opinion is the bane of the internet Anon

>>50481611

I think you could import the 1e contracts. The 2e Contract formula seems simple enough to make that possible, though I'd need to read them again to be sure.

As for the Tokens, I think that'll be fine as long as long as you're not expecting your players to pour five dots into Token at chargen.

>>50481495
>>50481690

There was a brief trend to pointedly refer to him as Martin a few weeks ago in response to some outrage which I have forgotten, but it seems that the threads have gone back to calling him Dracula.

>>50481319
Except for many people the things that World of Darkness does and *WANTS* to do ARE Urban Fantasy. Not "I want to do this instead", but that it IS. For many people, Urban Fantasy is a brand of horror.

>>50481690
>While just calling him Martin would invoke one of Romero's best films and one of the best vampire films of the 70s, that's not as catchy as Dracula.
What?

>>50481611
I don't think you can port the contracts and honestly I wouldn't bother. Tokens you can do however, that actually shouldn't matter much, I kind of hated how Tokens were costed in 1e anyway.

>>50481652
>>50481685
>>50481741
Yes, yes, you're very brave for never being upset or sad or angry at anything ever at all, unlike those silly SJWs. Would you like a cookie to make you feel special?

>>50481983
But calling him Dracula is already insulting.
I've seen people who don't think he's masturbatory get mad when people call him Dracula because it's disrespectful and dismissive.

>>50481999
>I've seen people who don't think he's masturbatory get mad when people call him Dracula

But those people are idiots.

>>50481988
I'd say there's a vast gulf between never getting angry/sad at anything, and going off from multiple hairtriggers about things that would bounce cleanly off even a thin-skinned man or woman easily.

I mean, if someone's gonna pull an X-card on - and this was listed
>Being alone (no sneaking ahead? no having a quiet day? what?)
>Comittment ("hey anon these two characters are dati~" "X-CARD, LISTER, X-CARD, THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER")
>Public places (OH SHIT FUCK THERE'S A PARK AND/OR A BUS STOP OR SOME KIND OF BUILDING IN A TOWN OH GODS)

Then the only person that reasonably can be shut down over these things is the one brandishing the card. They're beyond repair, and doing nothing but banging around the engine compartment loudly damaging everything else.

Not everything is black and white; and thinking entirely mundane parts of everyday life should be shut down hard is a sure sign that the problem is someone's completely busted CPU.

>>50481988
>you claim not to be completely crippled beyond all hope from mere mentions of any random thing at all, therefore you must be some angry internet tough-guy trying to pretend he's all that

No see, there's a large... spectrum (I'm sure you know plenty about at least being on one of *those*) of ability to tolerate and shrug things off in between "dead apathy" and "trigglypuff". Not being the latter does not in any way require one be the former. The latter isn't normality in any way, nor is it even remotely close to anything resembling a functional undamaged mind.

And that's saying a lot, because most minds are normally very different.

>>50481988
I think Dracula has not noticed the shitstorm of Mage: Revised.

He sounds like the personification of badwrongfun

>>50480185
>I described plane turbulence. This triggered a player and luckily I stopped asap (we had to stop the game as well) and we did what we could to help the person in question.
That's fucking hilarious

My current character might die/get doxxed soon so I wanna have a whole roster of backups

Need ideas for ww2 mages

Axis, allies, it's all fair game

I already had an idea for a correspondence/matter/prime sniper using a legendary rifle

Need moar

>>50481988
I'm pulling from the Mage magical items and the Werewolf Fetishes for that. So good.

Dang though on the contracts because some simple contracts of emotion were in those. And would have saved me a lot of time.

>>50482311
... Plane turbulence? Really?
Why aren't these nuts in Arkham like they need?

>>50481988

"Martin" is a good vampire movie that George A. Romero directed.

>Except for many...

They are classified as Urban Fantasy now, because we have an idea of the genre as it exists, and many things retroactively get put into that category. That did not make the original intention of VtM to be an Urban Fantasy game.

Now that we know what it is, it's obvious to put it in that basket. But that doesn't play into WWP's messaging of "returning to the heart of WoD/VtM", so they distance themselves from the term, even if it's a stupid idea.

Also if you're addressing the publishing classifications of Urban Fantasy, it's not considered a Horror subgenre anymore, though it can have horrific elements. Urban Fantasy as a whole doesn't intend to cause a sense of unease in the reader, and some horror magazines will ask people not to submit UF stories at all (or if they do, they have to belong in the sub-sub genre of "Dark Fantasy", which is still considered a horror related genre). Today, UF is considered an offshoot of fantasy, especially after it gave birth to the Paranormal Fantasy sub-sub genre, which also got thrust into the Fantasy genre. This is probably because of mainstream publisher's attempts to steer clear of Horror outside of the big names, but that's outside the topic of this thread.

Even now, CofD/WoD games are Horror games first, Urban Fantasy games second, in contrast to Scion, which is all Urban Fantasy all the time. You could actually just split the difference and call the games "Dark Fantasy". Some early WoD anthologies did just that.

>>50482340
It's not even that they got triggered, it's that they had to stop the entire game AND make an attempt to console the player.

>>50482572
Yeah, I just... I have no words to properly describe how I feel about this.

... But I won't go demanding everyone console me no matter how distraught the stupidity makes me feel.

I won't deny a hug would be nice, but people are allowed to play one-dot intellect dullards, and for me to demand otherwise just because of that would be unacceptable.

If a hallow has a rating of 2 does that mean it can provide a maximum of 2 mana total per day. Or 2 mana per person or imbued item per day?

>>50482659
total

>>50482311
A normal person might remember bad turbulence with something like this:
>Oh, yeah dude, I've been through that once. We lost a couple of thousand feet more before they could get the plane back under control; that was fucking terrifying for a bit. No I can totally understand the action penalties from that right now.

>>50482327
Okay so here is my first contract of emotion how does it look?
Influence (Emotion) 0 - 00000
Cost: 1 Glamour
Dice Pool: Presence + Expression + Wyrd
Action: Instant
Duration: 1 Day
Catch:
Upon activating this contract The changeling behaves as if it has an influence rating equal to it's dots in this contract in regards to their courts emotion. Successes on the activation roll act as a pool of bonus dice for the duration of the contract to add to rolls to enact their influence.

>>50479504
>a 14 year old Nosferatu embraced after his family was killed during WWI and permanently wore a gas mask

But the Brothers of Ypres are a Mekhet bloodline...

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>>50482799
Are you my Mummy?

>>50482692
Ouch. Does mana recovery get significantly better with a legacy? I seem to be burning through a lot.

>>50482817
Is this a mixed chronicle?

>>50482817
What? No not that kind of Mummy. Mummy as in low class British english for mommy.

>>50482236

What shitstorm? Is this the new shitstorm or the old "ww took the umbra ball home because we werent playing it right" shitstorm?

>>50480431
You. I like you

>>50480431
>can furry inclined mages make slutty mares for their mlp larps
>slutty mares

Redundant.

>>50480431
No such mechanic. They get to resist once with stamina when the spell is cast and that stamina just subtracts from the dice pool to cast. End of story.

What happens when you lock them into something small and the time runs out or you dispel. Chunky red salsa, and a mystery for the forensics team to be stumped on for the next decade.

Depends on how much you want to reach. If you reach yes they can retain their human intellect otherwise they will awaken from it thinking they had a dream where they were a rat and unaware of their pervious life. As for transforming them into Slutty Mares for a LARP, we just contacted the Guardians of the Veil. Please remain where you are so the sniper can have a better shot. Yes they could keep their intellect with reach but using magic to do that would likely be a wisdom breach and possibly invite hit squads on you because you aren't supposed to run the risks of exposure and Abyssal interference for mass transforming people into pastel miniature equines for no purpose other than a Role Play.

>>50483858
correction::

the spell's potency must extent beyond the targets withstand

Withstand for this kind of spell would be stam + PowerStat

>>50483389
The old

>>50484880
Thank you for the correction.

>>50480185
You're a right faggot, aren't you?

>>50484880
>>50485364
Power Stat is never factored in. Needing Successes > [Resistance Trait] is already making the spell enough, adding in Blood Potency or whatever would make it impossible for most Mages to do things.

>>50482311
KEK

Rate my latest version of VtR Samedi! Now with a custom blood sorcery!
Samedi
Clan: Nosferatu
Bloodline Disciplines: Majesty, Nightmare, Obfuscate, Vigor
Nicknames: stiffs, ghede.
Boon: The Samedi have access to the Blood Sorcery of Necromancy.
Weaknesses: The Samedi suffer from the Lonely Curse. In addition, they can only Embrace post-mortem.

>>50485703
Necromancy.
* Twilight Sense (Wits + Occult + Necromancy): no cost. The Samedi may see and communicate with ghosts in Twilight for the rest of the scene.
*Séance (Presence+Occult+Necromancy, 6 success): 1 Willpower. Summon a ghost the vampire knows by name, who must answer truthfully to a number of questions equal to the vampire's Necromancy dots. Further questions may require rolls. The ghost disappears at the end of the scene.
**Cursed Touch (Dexterity + Occult + Voodoo, 8 success, contested by Resolve + Composure): 1 vitae, spent when touching the target. It loses a point of Willpower for each exceeding success obtained by the Samedi on the roll.
**Ghostly Familiar: (Presence+Occult+Voodoo, 7 success, 1 Willpower): The Samedi has "befriended" a Rank 1 ghost (created following the normal rules)., the ghost appears in Twilight close to them. It treats the character as an anchor and must obey their commands for the rest of the scene, after which it returns to the Underworld.
***Raise Zombie (Intelligence+Occult+Necromancy, 8 success): 2 vitae and an talisman crafted by the caster. Animates a corpse as an undead minion. Its speed is reduced to 5, it has 2 dots in Strength and Stamina, and 1 dot in Dexterity, Athletics and Brawl, but all other attributes and skills are reduced to zero. It can understand simple commands from its master, is immune to mind control and reduces lethal damage to bashing, but crumbles if it suffers a single point of damage from fire, if the talisman is taken from it, if its creator enters torpor, or at sunrise. The Samedi may spend 1 Vitae daily to prevent this.
****Friends from the Other Side (Presence+Expression+Necromancy): 15 success, 2 willpower. the Samedi summons vengeful ghosts. The "friends" are considered to be a single Rank 4 ghost. They obey the summoner as long as he succeeds on a Presence + Expression roll before each order he gives. If he fails, his friends may decide to leave, or even turning on him.

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So is it okay to discuss the next Scion KS teaser in here since the game doesn't really need its own general?

It is still an OPP game and shit

>>50485896

I'm really excited for it, though truthfully I can't speak to the accuracy of it. I already did my part in starting a whole mess over the Netjer preview, and I'm mostly just really excited to see the revision.

Curious as to how the Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan thing will be handled.

>>50485932
>Curious as to how the Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan thing will be handled.
I think the Mayan pantheon is going to be handled like the Vodoun, in that its something between a new mantle for a whole faith and something else. I mean it could just be a mantle for the god though, fuck if I know

>>50485703
>>50485738
Necromancy here is just a Discipline with two first dots and required successes, not Blood Sorcery. Also, I'd suggest making them a minor Covenant instead, with a Blood Sorcery based on how Ceremonies are handled in Geist. Change the successes required for most of that to [Dots]+2 or something.

If you're going to make them Nosferatu, have it so they can only Embrace a corpse that has been dead longer than their Humanity-10. (Lower Humanity Samedi have to wait longer, and thus will likely have groddier Childer). Be sure to read up on the Posthumous Embrace, though.

>>50485949

I think they've said one is a Mantle of another, but I have to wonder at how Kukulkan feels about hanging out with the much bloodier Aztec gods as Quetzalcoatl. A friend of mine pointed out that the Aztec gods are like fucked-up, evil versions of earlier Mesoamerican gods and it'll be neat to see how Scion handles that.

Truthfully, I'm looking past the release of the corebook because I want to see the Incarnate Genesis that's hopefully going to be in the Companion, as its core to most of my character concepts.

>>50485961
The sorcery's "skeleton" is actually a discipline I made for them some time ago. I was aiming at 2-3 rituals per dot, but I'm not convinced by some of the others I made, especially the higher ones. I'd prefer to have them as Nosferatu to tie them in a bit with the VtM version, but a covenant could work. I'll re-read on the posthumous embrace. Thank you for the comment.

>>50485992
It'll probably be just a slight variation on knack access or something.

>>50486088
What were the VtM version? Also, there's a Baron Samedi inspired bloodline of Ventrue in 1e. They have one milky white eye and have boundary related powers in addition to the whole ghost thing.

How interesting are crone vampires as antagonists for tier 1 hunter?

>>50486501
They were decomposing vampires necromancers.
I'm aware of the Ventrue bloodline, but I think Nosferatu are a better fit for vampire voodoists.

>>50486812
They're one of the covenants most likely to do coordinated action which Hunters will notice and care about. Normally the little slip ups like the odd dead body are mistakes, feeding ones or whatever, not a local coven ritualistically hunting a group of frat bros who wandered into the wrong woods at night.

Also might give them a chance to work as allies with other vampires who disapprove of what they're seeing as well. Maybe the Invictus entering a soft war on the Crone because of little masquerade breaches adding up so hard that hunters are noticing, which means cops and normies are next.

>>50486812
They're pretty good. They kidnap people for sacrifices in addition to the usual vampire things, and it's easy to compare their practices to Satanism, and other vampires might want to discreetly sell them out Be sure it's a small coven of younger vamps, at least at first.

>>50486822
You could also refluff the Barakumin, though I think their Flaw is dumb (something like Status is costlier).

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>>50485992
Playtester here, we don't have any mechanical difference at hand right now but I think I know how it'll go. As is there's a set of calling agnostic knacks called God-Body ones that any Scion can get. I have a feeling that in the final product those will mean 'any Scion born a Scion' and there'll be a list for Chosen, Incarnate and Created that only those can get.

>>50481130
>And I wouldn't expect more :(

Seriously? We get those 2, but no 2nd Ed Coil of Blood? The fuck?

>>50485896
>>50485932
>>50485949
>>50485992
>>50486101
>>50486989
Aw hell no. Take this shit to its own thread.

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>>50487073
I made a mostly-update of the Coil of Blood.

>>50487117
Its a minor update and there's still no main game out yet to support a thread. It is less than a 10 post derail that is done now basically had you not decided to bump it.

>>50487073
Coil of Blood was broke as shit and you know it

>>50487160
Nice. I'll likely be using this next time I run Requiem.

>>50487200
It would be really fucking weird if the Ordo hadn't developed a Coil centered around the literal fucking lynchpin of vampiric existence.

>>50487160

You got a screen name or online handle, so I can properly credit this in my RPG folder?

>>50487200
>Coil of Blood was broke as shit and you know it

No, it wasn't. Not compared to the sorceries of two of the other covenants.
But I suppose, if you compare it to what the Invictus and Carthians got, it is fairly broken.

Another pair of VtM conversions I've made, this time a bit more straightforward.
Malkavian
Nickname: the Seers, the Lunatics
Clan: Mekhet
Bloodline Disciplines: Auspex, Celerity, Nightmare, Obfuscate
Gift of the Oracle: once per session, spend 1 Willpower to receive prophetic visions, which can be interpreted by rolling Intelligence + Academics or Occult. Each success provides a clue.
Curse of Madness: in addition to the Tenebrous Curse, all Malkavians are irremediably insane. Take one of the following persistent conditions at character creation or when joining the bloodline: Amnesia, Broken, Delusional or Fugue . It can never be resolved, but it can be suppressed for a scene by spending a point of Willpower.

Would it be overpowered to make them gain Beats from their madness? I'm also thinking of adding more conditions for variety's sake. Any suggestions?

"City Gangrel" (They probably need a better name.)
Clan: Gangrel
Nicknames: coyotes, Greek Gangrel
Bloodline Disciplines: Animalism, Celerity, Obfuscate, Protean
Gift of the Bloodhound: Trackers without peer, the coyotes take both the Bloodhound and Distinguished Palate merits for free.
Curse of the Bound: in addition to the Feral Curse, City Gangrel are more vulnerable to vitae addiction. Their rolls to resist getting addicted and indulging in it are capped by their Humanity.

>>50487364
I'm Aspel
Not really sure why you'd need to credit me, but sure
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw2F3h3SD

>>50487677
Malkavia is one of the best changes from VtM to VtR. I've been thinking about how to convert Malkavia to 2e. It wouldn't be a Bloodline, though, it would be the same sort of "any clan Bloodline" of Malkavia.

Also, in 1e, Malkavia and Malkovians were both Ventrue.

>>50487329
Try looking at homebrew threat at onyxpath forums first, there are better versions than Aspel's. (sorry Aspel)

>>50487540
>if you compare it to what the Invictus and Carthians got, it is fairly broken.
That reminds me, is there any explanation why are Invictus oaths supposed to work? I vaguely remember some poor attempt at explaining Carthian law, but nothing about oaths.

>>50488143
>why are Invictus oaths supposed to work?
Honor and decorum you uncultured Plebeian!

>>50488143
>there are better versions than Aspel's. (sorry Aspel)
I disagree. My version has pointless vampire cooking.

>>50480185
I read the articles.

I still think it's a stupid idea.

I still think rational adults can discuss boundaries before playing, instead of tapping a card to grind a session to a halt and force me to play 20 questions to find out which word was the Naughty.

I still think you're being deliberately obtuse.

I still think you should go catch something (like spirochetes)

>>50488167
What did you say you little Ventrue shit? I ain't no fucking Plebian, I don't even know no one with that name!

>>50488917
And you are totally right.

>>50488917
>"I read the articles, I'm just going to keep saying things that clearly show I didn't read the articles"

>>50489142

Dear Carthian riff-raff,

Why haven't you been to Vampire Mass yet?

Love,
Lancea et Sanctum

>>50489193
Dear everyone else,

Why don't you magiscience yourselves beyond your limts?

I remain,
Ordo Dracul

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I'm really fucking unhappy with the Attainment creation system.

Doing anything other than engaging in bullshit buff-stacking using Attainments just seems too reach-heavy to do anything on the fly, for any reasonable amount of time, without also feeling someone up or throwing a ball at them. And even then much of the time you've got to deal with oppressive Withstand, with no ability to increase the power of your Attainment.

It's even worse if god forbid, you want to use a spell with the Primary Factor as Duration.

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Hey gais!

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?794185-WW-OP-Are-the-*20-Lines-Winding-Down/page2

Apparently OPP will be working with/licensed to work on 5th Edition.

>>50489193
Ha, you are just using religion as a tool like the mortals do, to control idiots. Atleast the Invictus is upfront about the pyramid Scheme.

>>50489281

Theeere it is. I imagine OPP will be doing at least a few splat books or two once WWP's core is out.

>>50489253
Iunno, I've made one Legacy and other than not knowing what to do with the capstone, I'm not having much in the way of difficulty. I also had most of them use primary factor Duration.

What do you want to accomplish?

>>50489281
Is Emprint Rose?
Either way, this will hopefully put a stop to all the "OPP is getting shitcanned" rumours.

>>50489496

Yeah, Emprint is Rose's name on the RPGnet forums.

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>>50487677
>>50487972
>>50488143

I frequently hear folks disapointed about the missing malk. But then I ask them, what do they like about malkavains? What themes do they actually like. And I can usually get it down to three different aspects. Malks as Seers. Malks as Creepy Unnerving. Malks as madness

And I can point to the three different archetypes clans. The Venture deal with madness, with Dominate and Detachments. Venture are bit mentally screwy in some way, and they can use Dominate to basically mind fuck people all day.

If they are more attached to the trippy seer bent. I point them to the mystery prone Mekhet , especially with the new auspex with it's more trippy mental images.

And for the just truely unevering. creepy mind fucks. Nosferatu. Nightmare has Delusions and Illusions, you can just break peoples minds with Nightmare

Mehket and Nos already have obfuscate, which is a common discipline so buying it out of clan isn't unheard of. And it might be off type but I did run a malk with high Fort. He was a madman who sang in burning buildings. His madness survived many purges

They may not survive in name. but the themes and styles they were are alive and well in VTR

>>50489496
I've made a few Legacies of my own, however there are dramatic differences in the fairness of application for various Arcana.

Spirit for example, is a wonderful Arcanum. However whenever you want to influence any Spirit, you rub up against its Withstand, which unless you're Spirit 4, or have Duration Primary at Spirit 3, your Attainments won't work on any but the most pathetic Gafflings.

What's more, the moment you try and introduce any kind of interference with the Gaunlet. Say even something which would make as much sense for a Spirit Mage as either translocating over it, or creating an Iris, you smash into the problem that unless you're in some shitty small town, you'll need Potency Primary and Spirit 5 to actuall suceed at anything.

I comprehend that the Gaunlet is supposed to be a big important barrier, however when even a Legacy Attainment won't let you vault that barrier, at a quite significant Reach cost, mind you, anywhere but in the fucking sticks, there's something wrong.

Compare that to Space, where at Space 4, you can use your Singular Reach 4th Attainment to teleport anywhere in sight. As many times as you like, in front of Sleeper witnesses, without Paradox or Quiescence.

>>50489612
>>50489253
>Ignoring yantra bonuses

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>>50489736
>Yantras on Legacy Attainments

>>50487972
>Malkavia is one of the best changes from VtM to VtR

That's a funny way of spelling "shittiest", Aspel. Don't blame the world for fishmalks, blame bad players. There's literally nothing stopping a Requiem player from going full fish.

>>50489791
It's aspel, what did you expect?

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>>50489144
>If you just read the articles enough times and keep drinking the kool-aid, you'll suddenly see it has value

yeah, nah. It's a shitty idea. No amount of re-reading how BDSM fans drawing an O on the flipside encouraged their magical realms, or how a player's sense of construction logistics were offended by untethered pipelines and they felt the need to derail the session, or even that using the card to stop not just triggers but anything that makes a person feel slightly uncomfortable actually encourages creativity in (context) a goddamn horror game about monsters; none of that is going to make the entire scheme any less ridiculous or any less pandering to deeply damaged individuals who need comprehensive cognitive therapy instead of a handful of dice and (context) A FUCKING HORROR GAME.

>yfw I read the articles and still think the scheme is a pile of shit

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>>50489588
>I frequently hear folks disapointed about the missing malk.
I'm not disappointed in the missing Malk, for what it's worth. I like Malkavia because it's *not* like the Malkavians of VtM. Malkavians as a specific Ventrue Bloodline (Malkovians in 1e, for some reason) were acceptable, but for the "mental illness as body horror", I really like Malkavia.

>>50489791
>>50489889
When the fucking Malkavian clanbook is filled with LOL SO RANDUMB bullshit, yes, you can blame the fucking game itself. Nothing stops a Requiem player from being a fishmalk, but the presentation of it makes that much less likely. The presentation is the thing I like. I don't give a fuck what players might or might not do.

>>50489736
... which you don't get in an Attainment?

>>50489612
Why would you need Spirit 4? Or even Duration Primary? You do know that you get additional Spell Factors equal to your primary Arcanum, right? So Command Spirit as the 3rd Attainment, with a Potency of [Spirit] and additional spell factor penalties equal to [Spirit] and the Reach dedicated to Instant cast and Advanced Duration.

>>50489982
>>yfw I read the articles and still think the scheme is a pile of shit
Here's the thing though: No one gives a shit

>>50487972
>Malkavia is one of the best changes from VtM to VtR. I've been thinking about how to convert Malkavia to 2e. It wouldn't be a Bloodline, though, it would be the same sort of "any clan Bloodline" of Malkavia.

What if their madness came from a parasitic entity from the Shadow?

>>50490066
I meant that it would be Malkavia as shown in the Ventrue clanbook, Lords Over the Damned, but for 2e.
So a Bloodline-but-not that comes with an additional Bane and a series of Devotions for Dementate.

>>50490066
>What if their madness came from a parasitic entity from the Shadow?

Change madness to fleshcrafting, and I'm sold. Especially if I can spread it like Space AIDS.

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>>50490262

>>50489986
I like the parallel logic. It's a riddle to be solved. Its hard to do Malk well. Because everyone want to play Joker Harley, as lulz fun. Without understanding that they're actually dysfunctional losers in a tragedy they can't escape. With no future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXsDi0D7bao

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>>50490262
>Vicissitude as space virus

Holy shit just go read the Black Hand book.

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>>50490319
This is why I like Harley better when she's post-Joker. Not only is it nice to see someone moving on from a bad relationship (and seeing character development in comics), I much prefer her on her own being lesbians with other characters like Ivy.
Now if only mainstream Harley wasn't currently DC's Deadpool.

>>50490336

You are just jealous of the undiluted awesomeness of the Black Hand Book

>>50490509
That arch only works if she leaves the stage, afterwards. After you're done with the tragedy and recovery, there's no more story.

My problem with that coupling, other than it's pretty cute and heart warming, is that it reinforces an old stereotype. Lesbians/ Gays are ether insane or radials. Harley breaks herself for the sack of a con man and ivy was always a radial feminist.

>>50489995
Haha, fuck off. Clearly people do or it wouldn't have lasted two threads. How do you type spoiler tags with your eyes closed?

>>50489986
>*sob* the Clanbook sucked!!!

All the Clanbooks sucked, Aspel. What else you got? Nothing, apparently, because you don't actually care about the reality of how players explore the themes, you just want your shiny books.

>>50490740
>CopyPaste?

>>50490675
I'd sooner that than another Magical Queer, who knows everything about hetero-relationships despite being phobic about the opposite sex. Supervillains don't suddenly turn into soccer mums because they have a happy relationships.

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Daily reminder that Shane DeFreest, former Camarilla head and MET publisher, is now a WW employee, and the new MET books contain a lot more ongoing plot than the Onyx Path books.... pants on head retarded metaplot for EVERYBODY!!!!

>>50490675
>After you're done with the tragedy and recovery, there's no more story.
Or, you know, there are other stories. And "recovery" isn't a one-off thing. Hell, we're talking about a comic centered on a man who's wallowing in his tragedy and has been since the 30s. Other than being completely not my style, the Harley comics have been getting a lot of praise lately. DC Bombshells--where that Harley and Ivy kissing comes from--as well.

And in the Harley Quinn comic, she's actually bisexual, and Red is okay with an open relationship. "I'm happy when she's happy".

>>50490762
Do you have a point, or what?
What people who aren't part of my group do really doesn't bother me. How the actual book presents something, though? That's what I care about.

>>50491111
>Supervillains don't suddenly turn into soccer mums because they have a happy relationships.
I'd read that comic. Actually, I'm pretty sure that is a comic. Probably a few. I know there's a comic centered around Vision creating a robot family.
I think his wife goes insane.

>tfw you're tempted to buy the BESM rights off of White Wolf but you're broke as shit

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>>50491458
>Do you have a point, or what?
That you seem blind, ignorant or deliberately ignoring basic fact; at least 75% of all White Wolf products have historically been absolute garbage, and it's been up to the players to salvage something workable from it.

Gypsies? Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand? 1st Edition Clanbooks, Tribebooks, Convention books, etc.? Guide to the Changing Breeds? Revised metaplot? World of Darkness 1st and 2nd edition? Rage across Australia, Rage across New York, Rage across the Amazon? The Quick and the Dead? Nights of Prophecy? Midnight Circus? Kindred of the East? Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom? These are just the titles that are notorious, there are plenty of sour notes in otherwise good books.

Then we have OPP's contributions. Requiem 1e with Predator's Taint, RAW? Awakening 1e, where nothing ever happens? Beast? Geist 1e? Changing Breeds? Mage 20th and all accompanying work? Broken rules, missing rules, contradictory rules? Overuse of bizarre pronouns?

Bottom line - the books are mere inspiration. You see none, okay, that's fine. Just don't act like everything is glitter and sparkles except for that one book *you* don't like.

>>50491636
I don't know why "I like this one thing better than the other thing" is difficult for you to understand, but I'm not really interested in using smaller words for you. This may surprise you but some people *don't* hate these games.

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>>50491458
>comicbooks
Ok I'll admit I'm not a big comicbook guy. and don't keep up to date. I do like a good narrative thou. and I've been trying to run a copy of Bats and Drac for the past month

But I will swing this back to the point I was making before. Malks never recover. No amount of therapy will help them work through their pain and sorrow. They have an eternity of madness to look forward to.

And to me Harley's story ended, way back in btas, because it really punched home that level of cruel reality. hopelssness, That really sunk in deep the malk themes. If others liked the story afterwards. good for you. it's just not my story

Malks never recover. And that's why we sing while the entire world burns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

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>>50492114
But we weren't talking about Malks, we were talking about Harley Quinn. And Harley Quinn's story isn't *just* about being the Joker's abused girlfriend in the present tense.
A lot of people actually see her as inspirational.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/harley-quinn-just-cut-ties-with-the-joker-in-the-most-s-1759700580
The blogospheres where in an excited uproar about this scene in particular.
Harley's story doesn't have to stay trapped in an abusive relationship any more than anyone in one for real does.

Although as an aside, I only get to keep up with comics tangentially myself, and I could have sworn Joker was dead and/or faceless and/or three people. And that a crazy hobo girl was wearing his face. But apparently he got better, because comics?

Anyway, regarding Malks, one of the reasons I prefer the Malkavia presented in Requiem is that it's presented more as the body horror of mental degeneration, as opposed to simply "mad seers" or anything like that. There's still a regulatory insanity, but Malkavia as a disease is not something positive, it's something that Kindred society fears. And it's a fear that stems straight from the Blood, the very thing that gives them their power.
For similar reasons, I also like the Morbus bloodline, and think a Malkavian Morbus would be great as an antagonist.

>>50492114
>I do like a good narrative thou.
So you don't like comics?

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>>50492458
I was talking about Malks >>50490319

>Harley's story doesn't have to stay trapped in an abusive relationship any more than anyone in one for real does.
Thats not a Malk's story. Malks don't get happy endings. Because They ARE trapped in their personal hells and can't help but repeat the same cycles. Walking around in circles. It's not about what we want or deserve. It's about the chains that are. We can break away. Malks can not. and There's the Horror. And so many people don't get that. It's about dysfunction, and forcing those around you to abdicate that dysfunction to their own determent, and to the malk's benefit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEFQTY4hjUk

That pic takes a story and writes a happy ending with action. But that doesn't work because, its not the way she fell to begin with. The clown was a manipulative Freak and conned the good Doctor. and by painting the clown as a brute instead of a mind screwing bastard; It dilutes the resolution. Why can't the good doctor reason her way back? Why is the clown using brute force to get what he wants? Sweet word should sour. Empty Promises cashed in. Abandonment Arrived. You don't need to paint him as the obvious bad guy. We already know he is the devil. Because the devil wears a pretty face and uses ten dollar words. while poisoning the mind and soul.

You need the realization, and being put face to face with the mask of a sociopath, jam a screw driver into the eye socket and rip off the kirk mask and reveal the monster within. They showed the monster too quickly. As if to say Harley is soo stupid for not seeing the obvious. When the whole damn trick relies on pulling a fast one on the emotions.

If there is or was no mask then the good doctor was too simple not to see it. But because there is the mask. it underlines even the best of us are fools, but by walking the long journey home We can save ourselves

Yeah thats a nice story but it isn't a malk story

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>>50492600
//co is that way Anon, your trolling in the wrong place

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>>50491742
Maybe it's your arrogant attitude, maybe it's the fact you expect the rest of us to lump your preferences while you shit all over ours, maybe it's the fact that you're a celebrity around here and it's gone to your head.

>This may surprise you
Strawmen, strawmen everywhere. I never said anyone hated the games. I said that they were, objectively, filled with broken and useless crap, and players and ST's alike forge something useful from it.

I wonder why.... could it be because we DON'T hate these games?

Keep pretending you're retarded, though, it amuses me.

>>50492114
>Malks never recover.

Implying they even see it as something "bad" that must be "recovered from"?

This is why you don't understand Malkavians. Madness is a gift, pleb.

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>>50492995
>Thats not a Malk's story.
Which was my original point >>50490509

Also, it doesn't write a happy "ending" because these stories never end. Also, it doesn't paint him as a brute, he tries to fuck with her mind and she doesn't go in for it this time. He's bloody because he tried to manipulate her and she bit him.

Actually, my point was simply "yeah, people playing Malks like Harley or the Joker is dumb, that's why I prefer Harley that's moved on", but really a player character with Malkavia should be like this. Harley is still a nutter. She's still kind of a sociopath and while she's probably the moral center of the Suicide Squad, she's still a crazy person.

An antagonist with Malkavia should be like The Joker, and a creepy monster, at best putting on a mask of sanity. But a player character with Malkavia? Should be like Harley in her more modern incarnations. Nutty as a fruitcake but still holding on to Humanity.

I think that the "there are no happy endings" attitude is a mistake on two fronts. On the first, like I said, there are no endings. Neither comic books nor RPGs tend to be one off things that have complete character arcs that are never touched on again.
But the second problem with that statement is that it assumes every vampire of a type is just inherently fucked. That kind of approach to mental illness is a thing that Onyx Path wanted to get away from in V20, if I recall. Requiem's Malkavia takes a different approach, but it's also a plot hook and a source of horror for the characters to deal with, not a consistent type of player character.

>>50493066
No one cares. Calling other people out on being arrogant when you use the term plebeian sort of lacks a luster. Also, if you think I'm a celebrity, you're an idiot.
Also this is literally a strawman
>Bottom line - the books are mere inspiration. You see none, okay, that's fine. Just don't act like everything is glitter and sparkles except for that one book *you* don't like.

>>50492458
>Not enough Harley in underwear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpu6yPAFHrs

>>50493198
Why was Gods and Monsters so good?
Why did they put out a shitty Killing Joke adaptation instead of more from the Son of Batman series?
Why do I have to wait so long for Justice League: Dark?

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>>50493151
>No one cares.

You clearly do. *smell of assburning intensifies*

> Calling other people out on being arrogant when you use the term plebeian sort of lacks a luster.

Pretending you have super-amazing insights on the nature of mental illness and the appropriate use of it in TTRPG by resorting to the never-ending soap opera and high fiction of comic books Indicates you lack any grasp of either subject. Acting like everyone else is the retard for not seeing these spurious connections, well, that takes a special kind of wanker.

> Also, if you think I'm a celebrity, you're an idiot.

And yet... everyone here knows who Aspel is. What does "celebrity" mean, again? Tell me, you who proudly avoids a tripcode yet still namedrops?

>Also this is literally a strawman
No, pic related is "literally a strawman." My statement still stands. You see no value in a book, so you discard it; you are blind to the fact that all material from White Wolf fits on a spectrum of "broken", or you pretend it's not. Be it bad rules, poor fluff, bad research, bad layout, bad writing, bad art or just plain offensive shit, White Wolf have never failed to deliver. We pick through the dross and find the gems, that's the reality of being a fan of this line. Stop pretending everything is super-awesome except for that one book you hate because reasons. It doesn't suit you.

>>50493388
>(You)

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>>50493411
Got a little close to the bone, there, did we dearie? Harden the fuck up. This is the reality of White Wolf. This is the way it has always been, this is the way it always will be. For every Charnel Houses of Europe there will be two Chaos Factors. Make peace with your gods and send more money, Rich Thomas needs more cocaine.

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>>50493151
Stories end man. At some point you just can't continue the story.

And Vamps are inherently fucked. They can never go back after the point. They can never truly go home. The sun kills them, and they must feast on blood. They can go home. but it's the soldier coming home from war. a very critical part of themselves is no longer there

Besides if i want to explore mental hang up and madness, I've got the Venture. Which to be honest is more conducive to the classical story of madness which I do like. The nobleness madness. The fall of the house of Usher kind.

I do see your points, but it just doesn't do anything for me. I may rethink avaia at some point. You have given me food for thought but for now Mavaina are the monsters I mourn.

I still think we're way off on our interruptions of comics thou

>>50493388
>And yet... everyone here knows who Aspel is. What does "celebrity" mean, again? Tell me, you who proudly avoids a tripcode yet still namedrops?
Is Aspel the same as faggot-kun from a year or maybe two ago? Blasted the generals with these hilarious character sheets and dumb homebrew bloodlines.

>>50487677
So does anyone have mechanical comments on the bloodlines?

>>50493673
The very same. He seems to come back every few hours, every day, every single /wodg/; to tout his Senpai Anime Girl hunter legacy, blast the rest of us for not being progressive, endlessly debate semantics and accuse the rest of us of being "deliberately obtuse". His posts are easy to spot, because he feels the need to reply to over half the thread in a single post, and always admits to being Aspel (because what fun is anonymity when no-one knows your Supah-Kool-L33t online handle?)

>>50493691
Don't make them any more complicated than they are. A player shouldn't need to keep remembering additional curses.

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>>50493839
Daily reminder that Aspel thinks the Warszawa Pact countries weren't radically left-wing

>>50493851
What's the point of bloodlines having additional curses then? I don't think they're that hard to remember.

>>50493952
Good question. What's the point in having more than one at all?

>>50493881
Oh yeah... I forgot that moment of utter ignorance.

Are there any good adventures published for nwod? I'd like to run a one-shot or a small campaign, but I'm not invested enough to make up my own plot yet.

>>50480081
I don't know much about the whole x-card thing, but to play a doubles advocate it seems like a usefull thing to throw at that one endgemaster player when he gets into another graphic description of necrophilia or child rape before you get the group to talk to him after the game.

>>50481611
Man, I was thinking trying the 2e CtL thing. I'm curious. How is the second edition going to be different from the first one.

>>50493881
>>50494571
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinism#Trotskyism

>>50494551
You get one more favored Discipline. That's pretty much it. Compared to 2E Lodges and Legacies, 2E Bloodlines are amazingly and underwhelmingly shit.

>>50493851
>>50493952
>>50494551
>Don't make them any more complicated than they are. A player shouldn't need to keep remembering additional curses.
Bloodlines always have an additional curse. It's to add to the themes of the Bloodline and to offset the bonus given by the fourth In-Clan Discipline and the Bloodline Devotions.

>>50494989
Bloodlines are the best of them, though. Don't Lodges give nothing but a Siskur-Dah condition and a lot of social baggage that makes being in a Pack with anyone not of your Lodge nearly impossible? While Legacies take forever to give you the benefit, which no longer does the thing everyone wanted legacies in 1e for, and also comes with social baggage? Meanwhile Bloodlines give a handful of immediately available benefits and of the three existing ones only one has any real baggage that would make a game difficult, and it's not even a "Bloodline".

>>50494600
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Storytelling_Adventure_System

>>50494865
Very different.
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/832066-2e-playtest-compilation-now-with-pledges-and-huntsmen
Oh hey, Hedge rules are out.
Hopefully this version has the updated Harvesting rules. Last time I checked v3 or so didn't.

>>50482311
Well if the whole x-card thing lets people with serious mental health issues roleplay, then more power to them.

>>50495034
>Oh hey, Hedge rules are out.
And while decent in overall presentation, far, far, far too focused on Pain.

>>50495034
Huh. Can't say I'm thrilled with what Hill is with 2nd edition Lost.

>>50495132
He's made some significant changes.
While he does seem to want to make Changeligns less focussed on their Durance.
The cost for that seems to live in perpetual fear of these immortal horrifying monsters, and the loss of much of the beauty that made Changeling such a wonderful world of Beautiful Madness.

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>>50494706
Again, if you sit down the first time players all meet and you agree on hard boundaries (child rape and necrophilia are two perfect examples) that shouldn't come up, and if it does, you have justification to warn and then kick the asshole(s) out.

I will concede to you, however, that the author of the system jokes that he uses it as much, if not more, than his players.

(But seriously? I've *never* had someone so desperate for attention that they've completely trampled social taboos like that to gross out the other players. I've had "griefers" that attacked any NPC with more than two lines of description, "contrarians" that pick a random direction and head off that way to spite literally everyone else and "buffoons" that do something so cripplingly illegal, obvious and blatant in public that the rest of the party have pretended they didn't know them when the cops showed up.... but no sexual deviants. Ever.)

>>50489281
I'm sure you guys already discussed it to death but do people actually want a new edition of Masquerade after V20? What should we expect from it? I don't get it.

>>50495034
At a glance, the only thing I'd want to use from CtL 2e is the Contracts system. Everything else can go die in the Conqueror Wyrm's fiery exhalations.

>Meanwhile, the local Carthians have a small chat with an Invictus representative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP2OwiCmk88

>>50495034
>Don't Lodges give nothing but a Siskur-Dah condition and a lot of social baggage that makes being in a Pack with anyone not of your Lodge nearly impossible?

No, they dont. Lodges give you a new Ban, a new bonus ability, a new Siskur-Dah condition and the possibility to buy lodge merits like combat styles, lodge contacts, lodge armory, fetishes or lodge witchcraft.

Is kind of like getting an extra totem.

As for the social baggage, that depends on the lodge of the 4 we got 2 are kind of difficult to integrate.

>>50495061
>And while decent in overall presentation, far, far, far too focused on Pain.

Welcome to the Changeling 2nd, now made by edgelords.

>>50495187
I'm dreading it because they're planning on overhauling entire aspects of the game. Some of it makes sense, but the rest of it feels like when your favourite show starts a new season and they start by killing two or more major characters. Things like The Beast, The Camarilla and The Sabbat are going to be redefined. We are now 11 years or so post-Gehenna, and what a fizzle it was. There are hints of a major war over the graves of the ancients, a new and more brutal mortal inquisition, the elders grown silent and the younger vampires ruling the streets alone.

One of the deeply controversial changes has been the inclusion of "you are what you eat", but as I now understand it what Ericsson wants to do is explain how Kindred actually train Disciplines. It was never adequately touched on before - if I want to learn Fortitude do I just get my friends to hit me with cricket bats until it doesn't hurt? How the fuck do I learn Obtenebration? - so soon the idea is you drink blood from the forgotten and lost to learn Obfuscate, blood from the charming and social to learn Presence. Where it falls apart? Ericsson also hinted that Disciplines are fuelled the same way - meaning a complicated blood pool separated by individualised types. It also contradicts the notion that mortals should be more than blood bags - players will now see entire characters as nothing more than 10 potential points of Thaumaturgy, or whatever.

Mostly it seems Ericsson wants to make his mark on the game, like any guy in a new job. He's really pumped that "Vampire Fifth = Vampire V = V.V. ZOMG like fangs" but that's such a vampyre subcultural email sig that I have to wonder if there's a reason Sebastian Van Houten has been plugging Vampire LARP so hard in the Huffington Post.

>>50480185
>What things have you seen X-Carded?
>We played a modern realistic horror game. Someone introduced funny elves.

Ok, now I wish I could bury every fishmalk at my table with those silly cards.
>-What's wrong? It's what my Malk would do. I'm just roleplaying
>-Here's another card. I don't have to explain anything.

Reminds me of Cacao sketch from Portlandia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldQGPwuHhkM

>>50494989
While that's true for 1e bloodlines, the 2e ones have four core disciplines, special devotions, an additional bonus and exclusive merits.

I don't really get the point of the whole Embrace the Wyrd thing. Do changelings really need two different mechanics for powering up their fae side and spooking the shit of people? Is it like an advanced version of taking of the Mask?

>>50495755
Sooooooooooo the exact same Mary Sue stuff that Chronicles players sat around mocking the Old White Wolf shit for in 2005? Special Snowflakes with Special Powers, only now there isn't even population guidelines to reasonably refuse a player's request? Good to know.

>>50495872

>seriously following population guidelines to reject or accept a player idea

Just grow a spine and say, "No, pick something else."

>>50495872
There is always guidelines to refuse a player's request: these are very rare/don't exist in the world of this Chronicle.

Remember, it's a toolkit.

>>50495872

I like it personally, is like requiem dialed down being a pretensious twat "mature" game and embraced the gonzo over the top shit and got itself a sense of fun.

>>50495598
>It's what my Malk would do. I'm just roleplaying
>>50495872
Bloodlines have existed since 1e. Most of them do give "special snowflake" powers. There are still "population guides". Stop trying to manufacture drama.

>>50496609
>Bloodlines have existed since 1e. Most of them do give "special snowflake" powers. There are still "population guides". Stop trying to manufacture drama.

Most of those "special snowflake" powers sucked. I applauded any player playing a special snowflake bloodline in 1st edition because that was a player that didnt mind crippking themselves for the sake of flavor.

>>50496660
And a lot of the Bloodlines *didn't* suck.

Appollonaire, Melissidae, Galloi, Septemi, Spina (Courtoisie is now an Invictus fighting style), Khaibit, Gulikan, ... I don't know anyone who wanted to play a Bloodline that *didn't* think their power was neat. Most people would start at BP 2 and three Disciplines deep into the Covenant if you'd let them. I know someone who plays Requiem ONLY to play around with Disciplines and Bloodlines.

>>50494983
>One group says the Soviet Union wasn't great therefor they can't be left wing
That's not how things work
Being a "worker's state" is inherently left wing, as Fascism is a corporatist state.

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>>50497407
>Worker's state
>The government owns everything
Do you also believe Democratic People's Republics?

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>>50497513
You are one obtuse individual. Stalinism is a derivative of Marxism-Leninism, which believed that the way to achieve a classless communist society was through a revolutionary vanguard leading both urban and rural proletarians. While the State owned everything at first, it was supposed to be a "temporary" measure, until the revolution was secure.
I'll add that using Trotskyism to decry Stalin is ridiculous. His ideology was even more dangerous than Stalin's.

>>50497838
Stalin's Marxism-Leninism is just State Capitalism. Calling it temporary doesn't change that the workers didn't control the means of production, the social welfare of citizens was low, and there were little to no protections for social equity except for lip service paid to being for the working class (and claiming to be for the working class is something fascism does all the time). The USSR was leftist in that it called itself communism, and a socialist republic. That's about it. If that's all it takes for you to consider something leftist, then sure. I'll concede that Left-Right politics are so broad that you can have that be Left.
But for others, "call themselves communist" doesn't make you leftist.

>>50497513
>>50497838
>>50498013
>>>/pol/

>>50491284
But seriously, isn't the ongoing story why people like Masquerade?

>>50493881
Left-Wing, yes. Radically so? No.
They were part of the mainstream movement, thus by definition they can't be radical.
It's the same reason Muslims can't really be radical.

>>50498449

It seems like it's more the setting and certain character arcs rather than the actual plot as a whole. Which makes sense given that the metaplot was written piece meal and changed quite a bit.

Remember, the original final boss of WoD was supposed to be Rasputin.

>>50495034
>>50495326
Some also grant influences to their members. I don't know if that's what was summarized under witchcraft though.

>>50498524
>if that's what was summarized under witchcraft though.

If you mean influence like the spirit power influence then yes thats what lodge witchcraft means

So, I had an idea about the Followers of Set, inspired by that discussion about Malkavia: that they have a magical ritual that can transform vampires of other clans into Setites. Of course, any would-be clan convert would have to step onto the Path of Sutekh first. I think it would be a great way to make the Setites both more frightening and more enticing: a Malkavian could become sane, a Nosferatu could look human again, an Assamite could shed their addiction to Vitae, and all it takes is to accept a more severe allergy to sunlight... and bend one's knee to the Dark God.

>>50499600
I'm not sure if it's a good idea. It kind of reminds me of the Children of Osiris being able to recruit from all clans.

>>50500386
Was that a problem? They're from way before my time.

>>50500841
Good point. They're basically a non-issue in modern nights, but some elder might notice the similarities and veto it. Or maybe encourage it, just to rub salt in the wound. I still think it's weird.

>>50500973
Weird in what bad way?

>>50495061
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT6eEfYwu1c

Why do you hate silent hill?

>>50495034
>a lot of social baggage that makes being in a Pack with anyone not of your Lodge nearly impossible?

Joining a Lodge is a meaningful dedication, and some Lodges can be very extreme in what they demand of the adherent - but for many Lodges, being in a pack that isn't all from the same Lodge is not only normal, but the specialist abilities of the Lodge member are in demand for that reason. Lodge membership isn't just a prestige class, though. It's a spiritual, social and religious allegiance, and that does have an impact.

I didn't want membership of a Lodge to basically be 'here, have some free stuff, and I guess you're a member of some sort of group too but eh, whatever' which it could sometimes end up being in 1e.

>>50495326
>Is kind of like getting an extra totem.

Well, it's explicitly like getting an extra totem, in that by swearing yourself to a Lodge, you're bonding yourself to that Lodge totem - hence the Blessing, Ban, Aspiration and new Sacred Hunt benefit.

>>50500386
>Children of Osiris
The COO were a good guy faction in the 1st edition player's guide that got scraped and never introduced again.some of the idea got rolled into golganda. but for the most part that bit of writing was largely ignored

>>50499600
DanseMabacra requiem had a faction called The Sun-Walking Knights, which lessened a clan bane, but got rid of the blood bond

>>50501457
They're included in V20, but are said to be almost extinct.

>>50501367
I just know that it would be hard if the whole pack isn't the Mad Max wolves.

>>50501718
To some extent, yeah; but a single Garmir or Banshee would work just fine. I needed to give a fairly broad spread of examples in the five spaces I had available, after all :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmC3ZhIHHi4

Task Force Valkyrie: The Movie anyone?

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>>50483858
So the body reverts back after death?

>digestion no longer the ultimate means of disposal
>no one will ever ask why I transform into a cheerleader before doing away with criminals

Now it's
>Polymorph a bull into a fly
>influence its need to seek shit
>It bumbles through the crowd and seeks the fetid air of a polician's mouth
>Put on sunglasses and dispel polymorph
>>50481130
Can a human still cause disbelief if it's no longer human, or forgot it ever was human?

>>50480378
This other anon says transmogrified humans don't revert to their original forms.

And I have this question about a Matter mage turning the air around a crowd into an LSD aerosol so as to avoid disbelief for cheerleader related antics. Who would trust the account of a tripping sleeper?

>>50491284
Yeah, and...? Also he was never the head of the Camarilla that I can recall. Just the founder of By Night Studios along with the Jasons.

>>50503278
>This other anon says transmogrified humans don't revert to their original forms.
I suppose I misspoke. They'll turn back to their original form when the spell ends. If they no longer exist (because they've been turned into a bloody smear, or digested), then there's nothing to turn back.
>And I have this question about a Matter mage turning the air around a crowd into an LSD aerosol so as to avoid disbelief for cheerleader related antics. Who would trust the account of a tripping sleeper?
Causing people to trip out might help you avoid Dissonance, but it might not. Either way, it doesn't matter if the Sleeper is tripping when they give their account. If they suffer Dissonance, they won't be able to accurately recount it to begin with. You'll just also have damaged a Sleeper's Soul in the process.

Read the rules for Dissonance on page 298

>>50503278
>And I have this question about a Matter mage turning the air around a crowd into an LSD aerosol so as to avoid disbelief for cheerleader related antics. Who would trust the account of a tripping sleeper?


It'd be easier to restrict the air-flow and make the crowd pass out. You could transmute some air into anesthetic if you're hell bent on drugging bystanders either way it's less of a paradox/wisdom risk.

Would causing a heat attack be Life•• or Life•••?

Daily reminder that oWoD > nWoD. Easier to run and introduce only translates to plot that is easier to ignore. Casting aside a reasonable scale of conflict only leads to a feeling of disempowerment, that is to say, your actions as a peon mean more to you even as a peon, than the actions of a King without a Kingdom.

Meta is betta

>>50505534
>Daily reminder

You are crappy about the daily part.
I didn't see this post yesterday.

>>50505392
Life ••

But it's not going to be an instant kill.

>>50505392
I would think Life•••, under Fraying.

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>>50505534
A niche within a niche. Your rapidly aging fanbase won't find a foothold amongst new players. You are the ents being outnumbered by man and orc. The judaism that will be destroyed by its own Christianity.

You'll come back, ragged and in tatters and claim humanity needs the real thing. But we don't, now that they have man made NWoD.
>You will be as Jesus in the Brothers Kazmarov
>And I, the Grand Inquisitor.

But you were right, it oWoD sure is beta.

What would the interaction between Scions of God and the Thrice-Great look like?

Both have an aesthetic and dynamic I'm a massive fan of.

Especially with how the Scions like to cultivate the Spirit Ecology for the benefit of mankind, while the Thrice-Great will likely create iris after iris if it suits their ends and curries favor with a planetary Court.

>>50505534
>Daily reminder you will die alone

If a Demon uses Echoing Death to kill a murderer and bring a recently-dead back to life, what does that look like with Mage Sight?

Death, Time, and Fate specifically, but Life and the other ones help contextualize it too.

>>50507645
Like shit just hit the fan.

>>50507645
What does the ability specifically do?

>>50507678
>Echoing Death
>The demon strikes a target dead and the death undoes the last action the character took. This requires the demon to warp time and causality, and as such it carries a greater risk of breaking
the demon’s Cover (in game terms, the compromise roll for this Exploit carries a –2 penalty). If the Exploit is successful, though, the demon can erase the last few moments of the target’s life, perhaps saving the life of someone that character killed.

>>50507678
Active magesight lets you discern the patterns and such about an object through the lenses of arcana likely your towers primary Arcana.
So someone brought back to life by a demon by killing someone else would look like the shit just hit the fan because suddenly one who isn't dead is suddenly registering as dead their threads of fate are transfered to soemone who was dead. A mage watching this would likely feel like he is watching an explosion, train wreck, or a Massive Charlie Foxtrot.

>>50507645
Fate would see that the threads of destiny of the resurrected have been altered and stretched unnaturally to a previous point.

Time would see a sort of causality loop/schrondinger situation. Time has forked and the victim is alive but also dead.

Death would see the remains of Stygia on the resurrected as though there was an unmaking spell cast but the target still has there soul somehow.

Space would see a connection between the murder and the victim a connection that shouldn't be there in a living person.

Prime could see an untruth about the victims life. Somehow them just walking around and living their life is a lie.

etc.

It would be an interesting enough mystery to attract Mages like flies to honey. Something that would annoy the hell out of the Demon in question.

>>50507722
Death would only be on the now dead guy.
Fate would show they're tied.
Time would show their history has been overwritten.
Space might show their sympathy.
Life, Mind, Spirit, Forces, Prime, and Matter would likely show nothing.

>>50507729
Unlikely. You've got to think of it in terms of the Arcana.
It's a simple Time overwrite, which affects a few other Arcana.

>>50507917
Eh, it's a neat Mystery but the thing is it's unlikely to trigger peripheral Mage Sight, given as it's a one-off occurance.

Meaning that unless a Mage happened to be gazing at the individual, and activated either Fate, Time, Death, or perhaps Space, then they'd be none the wiser.

And even then it's probably be quite an Opaque spell, and that it's immediately discernable as non-Supernal powerhaps not likely to mesh with their Obsession at the time.

>>50507981
>unlikely to trigger peripheral Mage Sight, given as it's a one-off occurance

ALL supernatural effects trigger peripheral mage sight. It has nothing to do with with whether something is a one off occurrence.

>>50508004
Only when activated.

>>50507981
You're telling me there are Mages that aren't constantly scanning the area with Mage sight while spamming knowing spells like the wonderfully paranoid schizophrenic sadists I play with?

>>50508024
Depending on the attainment's a player has passive effects can set off peripheral mage sight.

Also on an unrelated note I really miss 'unseen sense' it's less awkward to use at the table than 'peripheral mage sight'

>>50508086
There are, however those relate generally to various frequencies of Twilight, and the location of Mana.

I guess if you're rocking a "detect Time bullshit" spell you'd see it.
But it's hardly the gigantic nova of power that an Awakening is.

Is there any reason why I can't use Life •••• to transform into an unholy eldritch mass of chitin, stingers, tentacles, claws, and venom a la 'The Thing' to ruin some poor bastards day?

>>50508322
Other than needing to deal with the Size factor, not really.

>>50508392

And Dissonance.

>>50508420
That's less a difficulty in casting, and more a problem with the way you're using it.
You'll never have to worry about that if you don't wave your mandibles in the face of some poor Sleeper.

>>50508392
>>50508420
>>50508437
GLORIOUS.

Related question. When shape-shifted is your strength and agility proportional to your new form?

For example if I had three strength and then turned into an elephant and tried to tip over a car. Would I have the strength of an athletic man and auto-fail or an athletic elephant and likely succeed?

>>50508493
You'd have all the physical stats of an Elephant, with all of your skills.

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>>50508437
Transform the sleeper into a frog and he can't dissonance you because he is no longer human.

Then lock him in a tiny safe.

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my town's monthly Requiem LARP is tonight, and I'm too exhausted and aching from work to go. It's a real shame.

>>50508730
Wrong actually, he's a person in a frog's body, with all the mental faculties of a frog.

The immediate transformation would cause Paradox, and then in the aftermath Dissonance would set in.

>>50508793
>mental faculties of a frog
Of a person, rather.

Only with some fairly strong insticts to fight.

>>50508627
Is there a book that would have those numbers?

>>50508821
You should be able to find the stats here: http://theonyxpath.com/wild-at-heart/

>>50508821

War elephants are detailed in Dark Eras, pp. 74-75.

>>50501647
They were scrapped because they offered hope.

It's depressing, but true. Revised was supposed to be GRIMDARK HOLY SHIT THE WORLD IS ENDING. No time for Golconda when The Cathedral of Flesh is stomping the entire island of Manhattan like a Cloverfield alternate take.

Still, good to know they're in 1st edition player's guide - they may not gel that well into a Vampire campaign, but they do really well in a Mummy 2nd Edition campaign as allies you need but don't really want.

>>50505619
Daily reminders change, well, daily.

It's a nod to the old "MOTD" Message of the Day lines that greeted users logging onto the IRC networks.

>>50505883
A lovely analogy, completely destroyed by the fact Judaism has survived hundreds of years of constant persecution.

There is no need to be upset, simply because no-one wants to touch the tepid IP of nWoD for games, tv shows and movies. There is no need to be outraged, simply because the roots of every single good idea in nWoD lead inexorably back to work done over a decade ago for oWoD. Simply accept that nothing you love would exist without the things you hate, and embrace enlightenment.

>>50480185

I'm so sorry, please select what has triggered you:

Abortion
Addiction
Aimlessness
Animal abuse
Authority figures
Being alone
Bigotry
Blood
Bodily fluids
Bullying
Car accidents
Chaos
Child abuse
Childbirth
Children
Choking
Clowns
Commitment
Competition
Corpses
Crowded Spaces
Darkness
Dating
Dentists
Disease
Dogs
Drowning
Drugs
Eating in front of others
Failing
Falling
Feet
Fire
Flying
Germs
Heights
Homophobia
Injuries
Isolation
Kidnapping
Loss of control
Mobs
Natural Disasters
Nazis
Needles
Old people abuse
Pain
Performance
Plane crashes
Poverty
Pregnancy
Pressure
Public Places
Public restrooms
Racism
Rape
Reading aloud
Religion
Scarification
Sex
Sexism
Sharp objects
Slime
Small Spaces
Smoking
Snakes
Specific smells
Spiders
Suicide
Swearing
Terrorist Attacks
Touching
Torture
Uncertainty
Violence
Vomit
War
Yelling

>>50509686
Feet

>>50509686
>clowns

**shudder**

>>50509686
Failing

please let me win always or you're a bad person

>>50509686
>Competition
>Uncertainty
Hahaha, this is just too good.

>>50509686
>(You)

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>>50509686
>Crowded spaces

There are 53 separate posters in this thread... it's getting stuffy in here... finding it hard to breathe... X CARD X CARD

>>50509748
If someone told me they were triggered by "Competition" and "Uncertainty" in the context of roleplaying games, I'd look them in the eye and ask them very seriously if playing a game involving dice was anything they wanted to touch in the first place. There is no way to eradicate those two elements from 99% of RPG's, and the remaining 1% (AMBER diceless roleplay? maybe?) would be boring as fuck if you tried. It'd just be an exercise in wish fulfillment.

>>50509920
I feel like everyone jumping to make fun of that list of triggers completely out of context sort of misses the point. It's also very telling how everyone in the thread views certain things.

Surely you can think of *SPECIFIC* contexts where competition or uncertainty might make someone feel uncomfortable, as opposed to the general concepts themselves.

I don't know why people are so intent on mocking something other people have found useful instead of, you know, talking about the game this general is for. Then again I think we rival the /pfg/ in terms of people hating the game in question.

>>50510236
>Failing
>Horror

>>50509686
>Animal Abuse
>Old People Abuse

These actually do bother me when I see them in media and I often will look away.

>>50510279
It's called "elder abuse". Old people is hate speech

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>>50480185
CoD was a mistake.

>>50505883
>And yet the only thing that Onyx Path has that sells is 20s.

>>50510374
But that's not even remotely true, and there are several CofD books higher on DrivethruRPG's top 100.

Can we just get through one thread without edition warring misinformation? Next you'll tell us that Onyx Path is losing the licenses.

>>50510294
>Elder Abuse
How DARE you abuse the noble Elders of the Ivory Tower! The Camarilla has ensured the safety of our people for CENTURIES, you faithless curr! Surely you know that.... "interfering" with them while they slumber away the decades is indecent, even by our standards! Next you'll be telling me the NOSFERATU did this!!

>>50510451
>Sourcing DrivethruRPG's sales

>>50510451

>>>>/factcheck/

>DrivethruRPG's top 100

As far as anonymous is currently aware, the algorithm to calculate position on the top 100 is
>(# of units sold) / ~(weeks since release)
Therefore younger books will always score higher on the chart.
White Wolf have only ever released total numbers of books sold twice, and at that point New World books had not been available long enough for a valid comparison.

>losing the licenses
anyone curious can check the OPP forums for confirmation, but Rose has confirmed OPP will continue to release CoD, retain rights to 20th and continue devloping that line, as well as assist on 5th. 5th itself is currently being tested and refined in-house by White Wolf Publishing.

>This has been a Transmission from the Rogue Council.

>>50510552
>>50510574
Sourcing DrivethruRPG's top 100, as opposed to sourcing literally nothing.

>>50508049
Yeah, because that costs resources, and will bring down the attention of not-very-friendly supernal beings.

>>50510574
>Therefore younger books will always score higher on the chart.
Which is why it's amazing that nMage still scores so high.

>>50508793
If a group of people were turned into frogs wouldnt they always trigger paradox when they noticed their friend is now a frog?


Frogs cant trigger dissonance specially not when swallowed (how would they see)

How the fuck do you do a decent murder mystery in Mage?

Think about it.

>>50511482
Your efforts to investigate magically are obscured.

No Obrimos you say?

Best of fucking luck lads

>>50511482
Involve the Abyss. Crank the Opacity of everything up to 10.

>>50511482
The murder isn't the Mystery, the murderer and his reasons are.

>>50511027
Paradox is triggered upon casting, as the act of the spell's effect is obviously Supernatural.
Meaning if you're turning someone into a frog, and he notices, you get Paradox.

If he somehow doesn't notice (e.g. he was asleep) then even if there was no Paradox, Dissonance will still occur at the end of the scene if he's still alive.

You can still feel your new limbs and go "Hey, this isn't my body, why do I have weird legs? Ah Magic!", in the dark.

>>50511482
>>50511494
>>50511516

In Mage, it's often less an issue of whodunit, than finding, and more importantly, stopping the killer.

Congratulations, your wise and powerful mage pcs have easily ascertained that a powerful Gulmoth is responsible for the deaths of a number of students at the local university. Now all you have to do is stop an increasingly powerful Abyssal entity that has infected the physics department and is starting to unravel the very laws of time and space.

Good luck with that. In short order, you'll pine for the good old days when all you had to contend with were some uppity vampires and ghosts at senior center.

On the upside, if your characters actually survive, the mission to stop the monster will probably result in some great insights into Time and Space, and some significant Arcane XP.

>>50511482
You really don't. Try mortals.

>>50510574
As a note, the thing about the license being lost and them not doing any more X20 lines also came from the mouth of an OPP employee some months ago. Things change, don't act like people were wrong because they weren't. Things change and contracts get renewed with different language. No need to try to start a fight.

>>50511482
>How the fuck do you do a decent murder mystery in Mage?
>Think about it.

Unless it also involve other mages, you dont. There are certain types of story that are ill fitted to certain splats.

>>50511482
A few ways.
1. Even magic has weak points know your players, get some details on the characters before you start planning.
2. Just because they look back in time or use space to draw connections, doesn't mean they can't be handed red herrings. If someone knows about the existence of magic they will take measures to counter it.
3. IT doesn't stop at Who Dunnit as others have said figuring out who did it is step 1, Steps 2-10 involve stopping them and preventing further killings by figuring out their motivations, and habits and pattern.
4. False leads. Copy Cat Killers. These go a long way to muddying the waters. Use them.

>>50511482
Watch Pushing Daisies.

>>50512823

It's also good Geist inspiration, or at least I think so.

>>50511482
Mundane killings? You probably can't or at least not without a really elaborate/contrived set of coincidences. Supernatural would be different.

Mages are 'addicted to mysteries'™ for a reasons beside gaining arcane power, life would frankly be boring at times if you had access to detective vision.

>>50513690
>Mundane killings?

I agree. Unless it involved reapers or some other Awakened shenanigans, why would mages even care about the murder of a muggle, er... unfortunate Sleeper?

The obsession about Mysteries involve the supernatural and other weird, unexplained and otherworldly phenomena. Given the vast abilities of mages, CSI: Awakened would involve short and boring chronicles.

Another Mage player here (old Mage, to be exact). I'm not entirely new to the game, but it's been a while. I forgot how much of a headache this system could be, but for some reason I can't quit it.

Are there any limits to how many extended duration spells can be affecting a target at once? Specifically old Mage, but I'm curious about any version of the game. I thought I heard something about that online, but I don't remember seeing anything in the books (or anything about ritual spell limits in general, apart from the maximum number of rolls).

>>50514327
In 2e M:tAw there isn't. A council could gather and buff each other into gods.

>raumwalross.tk
>dead

Anybody made a mirror of the RolePlay Portal?

>>50514327
>Are there any limits to how many extended duration spells can be affecting a target at once?

The spell stacking and Dissonance rules.

>>50512898
Yes indeed. It's great. It gives a good reason for why "talking to the victim" isn't always a perfect solution. You can apply the same thing to stuff like "watching the crime". Add in magical fuckery and suddenly a "simple" case doesn't become so simple.

iZombie might be another good one, or that Eliza Dushkuh show. I wanna say Tru Calling?
Having psychic powers doesn't always have to lead to the full solution.

>>50514615
Try using TheWaybackMachine on the original.

>>50514732
What are those? I searched through the books and didn't see anything, except the Spell Accumulation rule in Awakening (which I assume is what you meant by stacking, or similar to it).

>>50515124

Spell Stacking, Mage 2e, p. 118

Dissonance, Mage 2e, p. 299

>>50515205
>Another Mage player here (old Mage, to be exact)

come on senpai

>>50515205
Found them, thanks.

>>50515343
It wouldn't be my first choice if I were running the game, believe me.

Do imbued items/artifacts spell effects count against your spell control?

>>50515415

In 2e, I believe that is still an unanswered questions that will hopefully be addressed in the FAQ.

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>>50515465
>the FAQ

>>50515465
>>50515480

Since DaveB is no longer with OPP, there'll be no FAQ.

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>>50515502
>Since DaveB is no longer with OPP

>>50515415
>>50515465
I assume it doesn't otherwise artifacts/imbued items would become kind of pointless as the game progresses.

>>50515543

While the other Anon is wrong, and DaveB is still technically with OPP, the lack of releases, promised Mage supplemental content, spoilers for either Mage supplements or Deviant, or even his participation here or the OPP forums, is quite conspicuous and disappointing.

>>50515611
I'd say it's more of an indication of incompetence by the administration.

>>50515611
>>50515649
OPP is shit, fucking exalted fanbase waited 3 years for out fucking core book

Don't use that as evidence the dev has quit/been sacked

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>>50515465
>the FAQ

>>50515649
>>50515696
>>50515611
>While the other Anon is wrong, and DaveB is still technically with OPP, the lack of releases, promised Mage supplemental content, spoilers for either Mage supplements or Deviant, or even his participation here or the OPP forums, is quite conspicuous and disappointing.

>DaveB 11/29/16(Tue)08:44:02 No. >>50449390
>>>50448949
>SoS has been in Development because Awakening's errata and then Deviant have had priority over it. It'll still be out way closer to Mage than The Pack or Secrets of the Covenants were.

>Next book is Tome of the Pentacle. One more approved after that, which remains unannounced.

>DaveB 11/29/16(Tue)08:48:39 No. >>50449422
>>>50445035
>Assuming you mean "into reflexive ones" as per previous thread... No. Well, you can do it if you like in your game, but be warned that it will snap the Storytelling system like a twig. Multiple Actions - just say no.

It's almost like the guy has a fucking job or something...

>>50510618
It's almost as if it was a popular book.

>>50512141
No it didn't.

>>50515774
>have two jobs
>totally neglect one in favour of the other
>get whiteknighted on 4chan

>>50515774

No Deviant spoilers despite its alleged "priority, and Tome of the Pentacle doesn't even seem to be in first draft according to the Monday Meeting Notes.

I thought Dave becoming the Deviant developer was a great choice. However, if it's at the expense of Mage, I'll be very disappointed.