Warhammer 40k general

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Howdy guys!

How do I make MKIII Marines look like. Rhubrics?

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First for Traitor Legions being fucking great and much more than I had hoped for.

The fact that I managed to find that one guy I met months ago in the previous thread has awakened me to the magic of /tg/

Worst
>Word bearers, very mediocre.
>World Eater is kinda meh as well
>Black Legion

Legit fun, potential for great
>Night Lords Ld fuckery/Psychic Shriek for those who won't run
>Alpha Legion

A bit too specialized but have some potential
>Iron Warriors
>Thousand Sons

Legit good
>Emperor's Children

FUCKING AMAZING WHAT THE FUCK
>Death Guard

For Weapons Destroyed, does a Powerfist with a built in Meltagun count as 1 or 2 weapons? Do smoke launchers count?

>>50509715
also I just realized that Thousand Sons and Iron Warriors are essentially two sides of the same coin. They'd make great allies as they cover each others' glaring weaknesses.

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>Noise Marines as Troops

>>50509726
Smoke Launcher are not a weapon. If a weapon is built-in, it makes sense that if the housing is destroyed, the additional weapon does not work. At least that's how my group does it.

>>50509715
>>Black Legion raptor talon
>>Jump pack warlord with talons gets DIMENSIONAL KEY
>>deep strike turn 1 for speartip with your catulan reaver bros and charge turn 1, killing some chump
>>the entire rest of your army is justaerin terminators in the annihilation force and they are comin in hot and they do not scatter
>>?!?!?!?!?!??

...if it's like angels of death with the old relics being usable too... does this work?

DESU these Traitor Legion rules are makihe want to start an Iron Warriors, Thousand Suns, or Alpha Legion army.

>>50509776
DO IT

>>50509715
>tfw you're a Thousand Sons player that started to assemble a Night Lord force.
It might not be great, but it sure will be fun.

>>50509715

Swap World Eaters and Thousand Sons and you're about right.

Seriously, the huge amount of free buff stacking plus roll charge distance as a scout move that isn't scouting makes them an actually viable melee horde. Sure, Eldar will still beat them down, but otherwise they get a bit closer and are much better at pressing redundant threats to close and blend.

>>50509811
They can attempt 1st turn charges can't they? Because there's no blanket restriction on charging in the first turn, just that normally it's impossible without abilities that specifically deny it (eg. scout, infiltrate)

>>50509811
What do you do, put them in rhinos for sure protection, however temporary, or you rely on the gamble of the legion tactics and 2d6 move berzerkers on foot?

You could fuck up and get snake eyes, move 2" and get shot to pieces slogging up the board

>>50509811
>>viable melee horde
Craft a list and show it anon, do it do it.

>>50509775
Yes, it's basically chaos chapter tactics for anyone with VOTLW.
The only thing you have to do is declare them black legion to get the rules, but the turn 1 reserves is decurion only I think.

>>50509715
>WB
>Worst

Shit.

Soes the book improve a Word Bearer army any or what? Like is it just bad compared to other things in the book but it still improves them a little or is it actually shit?

>>50509834
>>Rhinos
No. Fuck rhinos. Rhinos are the worst for world eaters. If it gets destroyed, which it ALWAYS will, they cannot charge.

NO RHINOS.

IMO, mass smaller squads to divide up fire and maximize chances of getting a good pseudo scout move is probs best?

>>50509811
does the non-scout move extend to dedicated transports like scout does?

>>50509715

If you are trying to run World Eaters, looks like you are better off with KDK then?

>>50509852
Could you do a World Eater KDK list? Or is it CSM only?

>>50509834
You roll separately for every unit. MSU will statistically guarantee a few of them get good rolls and they can tie down the shooting threats for a turn while everything else makes it the rest of the way of the board and brings the hammer.

>>50509828
They can.
Berserker bikers can move 2d6 at game start, move 12" and then attempt a charge, rerolling any dice as needed.

>>50509834
Cheap marine squads on foot then bikers.

>>50509848
Good relics, good warlord traits, harness warp charges when summoning daemons on 3+, some free boons of mutation... it's an improvement for sure, just very, very overshadowed by the other Legions.

>>50509837

Well I mean, if you want to see a Melee hode work with currently released rules, try building up two units of 20 flesh hounds and closing them from the flanks as some more threats slide up the middle to follow the vanguard.

I'll look into exact composition of a World Eaters list when I have the actual pages: At the moment I just see fearless, pseudo-scouting, rerollable charges and extra in-melee rules. Fearless alone is big, means you need to completely deplete units to stop them.

>>50509834
Depends on what kind of tables you usually play on, but mine have plenty of LOS blocking/ruins terrain that you could deploy the WE in - roll your 2d6", if it's low just don't move, if it's high then go for a hail mary charge or move to new terrain in the middle of the board.

What's the average - 2d6" not-scout, 6" move, 2d6-with-reroll charge?

>>50509884
It looks like the Legions all get Fearless, which is pretty good. Just gotta remember about not being able to use OWOU to get out of combat.

>>50509877
They also still perils on any double on malefic, which WILL fuck you up more than it helps, harness on 3s or not. You're a lot better off just ignoring summoning and starting off with a shitload of daemons on the board, using them to summon instead. You won't benefit from half the WB rules but at the very least you'll be fluffy

>>50509787
But money though

>>50509898

Probably about 21-22. It'd be 20 without the reroll.

(7 average + 6 + 7 average)

Maybe turn one chargers will be rare, but you -will- cross the board effectively on your first turn and leave your opponent in a mad scramble to try to avoid turn 2 charges.

>>50509927
Would Raptor Talons be effective for WE?

>>50509862

Well mine is just bezerkers, bikes and daemons. Its not technically WEs, I was just wondering what would work better.

Is there a breakdown of the new rules anywhere?

>>50509947
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328002-traitor-legions/page-33#entry4581160

>>50509935
Disordered charge robs them of the bonuses from MoK and Legion Tactics, so not really, no.

So as far as I can tell, the only difference between a five man melee WE marine squad with no upgrades and a 5 man berzerker squad with no upgrades is one has WS5 and one is 20 points cheaper.

>>50509963
If they charged soft targets on the first turn, ones that don't need the extra attacks, they could stay in combat in the enemy's shooting phase and finish the unit off in the enemy's assault phase.

Then, they're balls-deep in the enemy's deployment zone and can charge whatever they like second turn, with full MoK and Legion Tactics benefits.

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>>50509634
Jesus, who did the art in the most recent Tau codex? It's definitely a bizarre change in aesthetic.

>>50509995
The only way to get a turn 1 deep strike is to run them in Black Legion.

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>>50510002
And heck, that isn't even the weirdest piece.

>>50510002
You should see the picture of the IG and Tau battle lines coming together - there's stormsurges about 20m from baneblades.

So I am building a harlequin army with c
Dark Eldar coven. I am using the grotesquerie with a subway portal in a raider. That with a shadowed and the mask that gives -2 ld makes for a large -3 ld bubble. My shadowed them know psychic shriek to dish out some wounds. Anyway I am wondering if I should put Liquifier guns on my grotesques letting them drop in a put down three flamers with s3 ap d6 for 45 points. Does that sound worth giving up close combat weapons?

>>50510014
I thought the plan was to have them on the board turn one - use the 2d6" not-scout and their own 12" movement to get some 1st turn charges off?

>>50510002

Well I mean, you try drawing a decent picture with a Stormsurge as your reference.

>>50509915
I don't want to though. I want to start with all CSM units on the board.

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Wrath of Magnus epub when?

>>50509659

You know, in a way, I can really see this sell to a younger audience.... No really, I would never get one myself (fuck... who the hell am I lying to!).

Think about it, this could really be an investment on GW´s part. Something to put the 40k lore on the map, outside the hobby so to speak. They did it well in video games, why not LEGO? And it would make the "buhu, this hobby is so expensive" idiots shut the hell up for once, as LEGO definitely is more expensive than this hobby (trust me, I have a kid of age 6, I know!)

>>50510029
They're expensive for low strength and random ap, even so I like liquifier guns to melt chaff.

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>>50509659
is there any instruction on how to build something like that?

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>>50510044
Then do so and hope you have fun.

As a TS player, I was happy for any update and I can play my Legion, even if its not amazingly good. I can finally rule the psychic phase and play on my own terms. I'm superhappy for my Legion brethren, even if some/most are straight up miles ahead of mine. At least we can all agree on one thing.

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!

>>50510031
Oh well in that case then yes, they're solid, and you don't have to worry about the disordered charge unless you're trying to tie down multiple units. But then you're not using the main benefit of the Raptor Talon formation which is charging from deep strike... although I guess if it's the only way to take Raptors in the Decurion, then, go for it.

>>50510094
I think you can take 1-3 units of raptors in the Warband, but people might want to save those slots for bikes.

NEW FAQ FOR PINK HORRORS OUT OF WOM.

Q: Do the new Pink Horrors get Malefic psychic powers?
A: No, they do not get Daemonology (Malefic) Powers.

THAT AUTIST FAGGOT ARGUING WITH EVERYONE JUST GOT BTFO

THANK YOU GW

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>>50510106
Full FAQ, for WoM, already.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/12/03/wrath-of-magnus-faq/

>>50510106

source?

>>50510106
They're still fucking absurd.

>>50510121
I know but it's always nice to see faggy rules-lawyers get officially shut the fuck down.

>>50510117
They're still a ridiculous tarpit and warp charge generator, but "wholly within" helps to the super abusive stuff. Now they're just really absurdly efficient rather than breaking the whole game.

>Take twenty pink horrors
>Cast possession
>Get 40 blue horrors and 20 LoC
Fun fun fun.

>>50510130

3 points for Objective Secured troops, with a 5++ invul would already be really good. The fact that they're Fearless against shooting AND generate Warp Charges AND can cast shit of their own is insanely good.

The fact that you can generate multiple units of these insanely good units FOR FREE just by your opponent killing your shit is Wraithknight tier broken.

>>50510106
>>50510121
>>50510130
>>50510129

So, what's the best way to kill them? I only play rarely and I haven't fought a chaos force in more than a decade.

>>50510117
This isn't going to stop anyone vetoing games against this shit.
GW needs to learn we don't want this shit in our games.

>>50510117
>No amendements or errata
JUST PUT IN A LINE THAT SAYS RUBRIC AND TERMIE SORCS CAN BUY SPELL FAMILIAR YOU FUCKS

I am totally calm but I'm disappointed by their lack.

>>50510148
There is no best way to kill them, that's the point.
The first two times you destroy their unit they get a new one for free, Tzeentch is the new WAAC army.

The new Tau.

>>50510141

>not 80 blue horrors

gotta take the tzerald w/locus

>>50510164

What does WAAC stand for? Win at all costs or something?

>>50510174
yes. exactly that.

>>50510174
That's exactly it. There's the other extreme, which is a lot rarer: HAAC, Hobby at all costs. These types of autists will shit on you for going even a toe out of line when it comes to fluff or minmaxing at all.

I remember one guy on here who used to call other anons children because they counts-as some weapons different to how they modeled it, claiming it was being a cheese faggot and they should quit the hobby.

>>50510148
As the FAQ mention it's Daemonic Instability tests. So assault. You want something that wont actually kill the whole unit with attacks, but will hit them hard enough to wipe it in a single phase from the instability test.

>>50510148
If you can get them to blow up from demonic instability in close combat then they don't split at all

Easier said then done.

>>50510179

That doesn't sound particularly fun to play against. What kind of points is a typical daemon aids-army going to be at?

>>50510185
That guy sucks. I do plenty of conversion work on my guys, there's plenty of counts as and no one's ever had a problem. My favourite currently is a deathwatch captain with a tech harness, robo legs and skorge's chainsaw from GoW2 as a power weapon. Where's the fun in not being creative.

>>50510146
I've said it before, but I expect 8th to introduce AoS style Reinforcement points. This FAQ even hints at this. Once you have to pay for any Blue or Brimstone Horrors you want to get via split they'll merely be very good.

>>50510203
the creative aspect is great, but he was just saying that if you modelled a meltagun on your model, you're being a cheesy faggot if you count it as a flamer f.ex to get some form of advantage against the current army you're facing.

I modelled my Berzerker Champion with dual lightning claws because they looks fucking badass. He can't even take Dual LCs anymore (this was during 5th)

>>50510078
Well the random so is not that bad, they have a 50% chance to eat through meq 3+ saves. S3 really is not that bad when you consider the possibility of no armor save.

>>50510203
It's the basic Tzeentch troop choice so it can be any points. This is the kind of thing were after a a token game or so you just politely decline to play them.

After reading the traitor legion rule leaks, despite some of the stuff looking really cool none of it comes close to the like of skyhammer or 300 points of free transports.

finally an option for CSM null deploy! several years late, but better than never... And terminators as troops! Now if only terminators were good...

Anyone got a rip/scan of Wrath of Magnus yet?

>>50510224
Legions now have some really amazing combos and some of the stuff is outright fucking top-tier, like Death Guard.

A Chaos Marine with T5, FnP 6+, Fearless, Relentless, a cover save beyond 18", that reduces WS and I by 1 within 7" for 16 points. That is insane. They literally overshadow Plague Marines now.

Now stick this statline on havocs with 4 autocannons. A moving wall of bullets.

What would a 40k Blood Bowl look like?

>>50510206

Oh I think we will see more similarities to AoS than that friend. You and me both knows that AoS was a try-out for maximizing sales ("buy what ever you want man" style of play), 40k is sure to follow.

And in a way, I don't even mind at this stage. Sure, I think 40k is fun, when you play the right people. But can also be horribly boring when facing the wrong people. With less rule-lawyering, and more gameplay to hit the game nights, there is (while simplified) more fun overall. And with a "you go figure it out" attitude from GW, the guys bringing the WAAC fag lists simply wont have anyone to play against. That was the main issue of hatred I think regarding AoS to begin with. The lack of rules made it so everyone brought just about all they owned to the table, only to find no one wanting to play them (surprise, surprise...).

>>50510269
Lack of points would be fun in my meta. I can field all my TS without giving a fuck if I'm fielding like 20 models due to absurd points cost. Of course I can imagine people refusing to play against any of the top cheese on the basis of "you're already strong as fuck and you're probably bringing 3K points to a 1,5K game".

>>50510269
>("buy what ever you want man" style of play)
40k basically already has that with allies and Unbound armies. AoS'izing wouldn't change things unless they absolutely delete the rules in the manner of original AoS rather than doing something General's Handbook-like.

>>50510286
>Lack of points would be fun in my meta.
Won't happen. What actually started giving AoS life was ADDING in points with the GHB. Expect all manner of rules simplifications though.

>>50510238
FNP 5+! They just get regular FNP.

Also they re-roll FNP rolls of 1.

wtf, you people told me Dark Eldar were shit! Deldar fast troops are killing the shit out of most Maelstrom missions.

Does anyone here even play 40k?

>>50510301
I legit wouldn't mind that. 40k is a clusterfuck of rules. It needs some serious reformatting.

>>50510257
http://www.manticgames.com/games/dreadball.html

>>50510307
>Does anyone here even play 40k?

Hah hah! No.

Well, actually, I do - I have done for 12 years now, but I think most people on here just feedback loop what they've heard.

>>50510306
My bad, thanks bro. Point stands eh, Death Guard players are now borderline Eldar-tier.

>>50510307
And everyone is killing the shit out of Deldar troops since basic bolters are more than enough to wipe out the whole army.

>>50510293

I think they learned their lesson with the Generals Handbook; players do want to have access to points. So I'd expect them to include the same for 40K.

Frankly at this point it's starting to look like they'd be stupid not to go down an Age of Sigmar style rules path for 40K. AoS is surging in popularity, and the rules are what's holding back 40K right now. There needs to be a rules crunch; not necessarily as extreme as AoS did, but certainly breaking things down a lot. The game is bloated and daunting to newcomers, and that's not a good thing.

>>50510238
>that reduces WS and I by 1 within 7" for 16 points.
That's only the plague zombie formation.

where the fuck are these traitor legions rules leaks
I just got off work and my chaosboner needs to know more

>>50510322
>Death Guard players are now borderline Eldar-tier

Oh man, please don't say that. I've been waiting 6 years to get DG legion rules, now I might not get to use them because they're too good?

So are Orks confirmed worst army in 40k now?

>tfw you play Black Templars and really want formations that utilize Crusader squads but don't want to say anything lest you get shit on for complaining as a Space Marines player

>>50510332
Bolter and Chainsword, there's a thread in the News and Rumours section called 'Traitor Legions', leak starts on page 34

>>50510307
Well. What do you know? Seems you can't believe everything you read on internet forums. Would it blow your mind to know that the guy coming second in our 40k campaign is playing CSM?

>>50510335
There are ways to mitigate the cheese but essentially if you go balls-deep you are going to be curbstomping tourneys left right and centre.

You've out-survivability'D Necrons.

what are the stats on the new tzaangors? did they turn out to be disappointing premium priced cultists?

>>50510323
Who cares when I get 12 VPs by the end of turn 3?

>>50510338

CSM has been better than Orks now ever since the start of 6th ed. It's just that their armies contained virtually no Chaos Space Marines. Orks don't even have such a build to fall back on; our best ones are still terrible.

And if someone brings up ITC, go fuck yourselves collectively with figurines of busty Ork cheerleaders. Relying on a book that Forgeworld themselves have said is so completely out of date that they won't even sell it anymore is not an answer.

>>50510338
That'd be Blood Angels if ITC is anything to go by.

Does anyone have the rules for the Fortress of Arrogance or know where they are? They used to be a data sheet but now all I can find are really blurry pictures.

>>50510354
Dang...well, what about this list, is it too much?

Assume everything has the MoN and VotLW.

CHAOS WARBAND

Chaos Lord
- terminator armour, power axe, power sword

Chaos Terminators
- x 4, 3 x combi-meltas, champion has 2 x LC

Chaos Bikers
- x 5, 2 x meltas

Chaos Space Marines
- x 10, Rhino, 2 x Plasma Gun

Chaos Space Marines
- x 10, 2 x Plasma gun

Chaos Havocs
- 4 x autocannon

HELLFORGED WARPACK
Warpsmith

2 x Maulerfiends

Helbrute


Does that seem good but not too good?

>>50510401
Seems balanced and tough. Remember bikers now have the FnP 5+ and rerolls of 1 on top of being T6 f.ex

>>50510357
70pts for 10

WS 4
BS 3
S 3
T 4
W 1
I 3
A 1 (2 for sergeant)
Ld 7 (8 for sergeant)
SV 6+

Can add up to 20 extra guys for +7pts each.
Come with two hand weapons base, can swap for hand weapon/autopistol for +1pt each.
One guy can become a sergeant for +10pts.
Have Mark of Tzeentch as standard.
Re-roll To Hit in assault against any model (specifically model, not his unit) equipped with any kind of relic.

They might be decent if they could ever get into close combat. Which, possibly unless there's a sorcerer babysitting them with Blessings, they won't.

>>50510363
It got a sixth edition update and people often play with 6th edition stuff..

>>50510410
Noice. Yeah, DG bikers, which were already durable as fuck, have now been elevated to "holy balls" levels.

>>50510332
Here's the source. Page back though for the rules:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2880/705017.page

>>50510412

>Blessings

They don't have VotLW

However, you can soul swap them or use the jump book.

Now I'm thinking of running my meager Khornate models with some spare Oblits together. WE with ranged IW backup. Nowhere near enough models to be competitive but I can see a nice casual 1-1.5K list together.

>>50510360

it matter when you are tabled turn 5.

That's why I have moved to Covens, much more durable.

>>50510412
They have Fleet and Run+Charge in the Formation.

>>50510324
That's pretty much what all the rumours are saying. Drastic rewrite, but not going as far as AoS.

Interesting. GW's profits have more than doubled year over year for the first half of this fiscal year. (£13 million compared to £6.2 million). Reports of GW's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

http://investor.games-workshop.com/2016/12/01/trading-update-5/

>>50510470
They put a lot of money into refurnishing Warhammer World and their HQ last year, that's where a lot of it went.

What's the best Marks to give a Daemon Prince and Possessed in a Favoured of Chaos formation?

>>50510470
Well, they've actually been trying lately, so that's got to help some.

>>50510455

Will probably be more competitive than my thousand sons, though my "Rhubrics" might be fluffed as regular CSM since they're MkIII and MKIV armor.

>>50510493

I run mine MoK, but only because they are painted that way from my KDK.

>>50510513
Mine's for WB, so there isn't an obvious Mark to take.

>>50510459
You have some of the fastest units in the game and you can't keep a single one of them out of range of the enemy if the entire game depends on it? Come on now.

>>50509715
It's out?!

FUCK Please share the delious Slaaneshi milk with my tongue oh wiseman!

>>50510566
Preorders are up in NZ, so we have leaks. They're on Dakka Dakka.

>>50510548

The guy I play most often is Eldar, so he is pretty fast as well.

>>50509715
>WB worst
Not surprising sadly. As long as possessed are just not a good unit it will not help to take them as troops, like with crimson slaughter.

Also no surprise that death guard gets good. GW likes mono god legions and plague marines or zombies, along with MoN are the better parts of a shitty csm codex

>>50510566
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2820/705017.page

Look for Veterannoob on this page.

>>50510509
My main CSM are TS and yeah that's a bummer. I don't want to count my Rubrics as normal CSM though, the look is entirely different.

>>50510603

I don't have official Rhubrics, but I do e see why HH Marines can't be Rhubrics. The armor sealed and the guy inside turned to dust. They don't need fancy hats for that.

Anyway, they're "Rhubrics" ie normal CSM. I just need enough sorcerers.

>>50510418
There is no reason to take plague marines in the DG anymore. For special weapons you get relentless havocs and chosen. Every IC can take Blight grenades and if you really need poison simply take a nurgle Sorcerer.

>>50510596
Hey, I said Dark Eldar weren't as bad as people think. I never said they could compete with professional cheesemakers.

>>50510645
But wait, If you give FnP to a model that already has FnP that means it gives them +1, kinda like Mark of Tzeentch on something that already has an Invuln. So if Plagues already have the 5+ FnP, doesn't that mean the DG Legion rules give them a 4+?

>>50510666
No. FNP doesnt work like that. It only stacks if especially said it stacks.

I really wish that guard and scions had the option to upgrade for points their vehicles and flyers to veteran status and get bs 4, seems weird esp with scions that their vehicles have lower skills than the men

>>50510666
Basic FNP doesn't work that way, if you're getting FNP from multiple sources you just use one or the other.

Often, when an army has the ability to receive FNP from a multitude of sources (see eg. Iron Hands), they'll include the improvement thing as part of the rules, but they didn't here.

>>50510678
>>50510672
Fair enough. Then yeah, paying 8 points extra per model for Blight grenades and plague knives won't be a good tradeoff. Plagues are officially dead in the water save for fluff reasons.

>>50510691

Wish I could say the same for 1KS

Don't even think of treading on my... Uh.. 6++ Marines... Yea!

Already a FAQ for Wrath of Magnus

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Wrath_of_Magnus_v1.0_Dec16-1.pdf

i really dont get these new rules, so you take a chaos black crusade detachment, then you say it is from a specific traitor legion AND then you chose their force option (like crimson slaughter or vanilla)? or how do you make a chaos army? please im a little entangled here

>>50510697
Yeah I know that feel. Nurgle has always been the best god by virtue of Toughness and FnP always being great stats, so I'm not too surprised.

I'm torn on the idea of counting my Rubrics as regular CSM. It'd cause all kinds of clashes with the TS detachment and they all look the same so it would be a headfuck. Not to mention it would feel like I'm not even playing my Legion.

>>50510713
More like FAQ for Wrath of Pinks.

Anyone have the WoM epub of pdf?

I want to like these traitor legion rules but they seem marred by all the mess of modern 40k. Formations , random inexplicable brokenness (splitting units wtf ) , older units being obsoleted , a focus on spamming one unit ( iron warriors main feature is spamming obliterators as troops , how dull).

So glad I switched to 30k where balance, fluff and fun reigns supreme.

>>50510691
Since there are no wolves on fenris, it's only fair that there are no Plague Marines in the Death Guard anymore

>>50510724

>not feeling like my Legion

That's the real problem, though technically, enough Sorcerers should do it, right?

Fuck.

I'm thinking about legion hopping. Or hell, using them as GKs because they make better Thousand Sons than Thousand Sons except for the whole melee weapon thing.

>>50510752
Whats wrong with the TS rules? They seem fine to me.

>>50510657

Oh I don't mind, was just explaining why mine don't last nearly as long as yours, hence why I went to Covens.

>>50510645
They're basically all Plague marines now, just not that specific cult unit called that.

Now all it needs is plastic Plague Marines to kitbash a bunch of them. Fucking hate Finecast.

>>50510772
People whining Rubrics are overcosted so they can't field a fuckload of them.

>>50510691
I don't think Blight Grenades and Plague Knives are critical to the "Plague Marine" feel though. Death Guard CSM are still stinky, durable, and tough as all fuck. I also love how relentless encourages foot armies in keeping with DG fluff.

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>>50510783
>Fucking hate Finecast.
Get the forgeworld resin bodies.

>>50510772
Not much to be honest, the rules themselves are actually fluffy and decent. Not supercompetitive but quite decent.

the problem is that the Legion is characterized by the Rubric Marines. That's a MASSIVE part of the Legion's schtick, the biggest event that stuck out and the one that changed them from loyalist to truly "Chaos". And they suck pretty hard. Terminators got the same treatment, they're just bigger, slightly tougher Rubrics with all the exact same issues.

So you have a dilemma as a TS player. Do you stick to what makes the Legion what it is and field rubrics/termies, gimping yourself (often beyond recovery) or do you ignore the rubrics/Termies and field other units, ignoring a good 70% of the Legion's schtick?

I would argue if you're playing TS without rubrics, you aren't really playing the Legion. Other god-legions don't have this stark a difference between regular troops and their cult troops, so it's a much easier decision for them.

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>>50510800

>>50510790
No they aren't, I'm just saying Plague Marines THE UNIT is dead. Marked basic CSM blow them out of the water.

>>50510772

The points per model, mostly. Also having to roll on the Tzeentch table for powers and praying for Doombolt, which is now a 1/6 chance instead of a 1/3rd.

>>50510789

It's more than that, though. The whole Legion is Rhibric'd except for the sorcerers, right? If I take an army with the Thousand Sons legion rules, what are they? What is a squad of Chaos Space Marines with Thousand Sons tactics?

>>50510812

This guy gets it.

>>50510772

I think its just points that hurts really. Having to max out formations to get full bonus is insane when you are an elite army, at least point wise.

>>50510820
Prospective Sorcerors who failed in their training somehow but are handy to have around.

>>50510812
>War Cabal: The superior core choice, it comes with the Favoured of Tzeentch rule (more on that later) and if a psyker successfully manifests a power in a War Cabal unit then it lets the unit reroll all 1’s to hit until the start of your next psychic phase. This can make your already lethal models more lethal and makes the Thousand Sons lethal in all three phases of the game. The cheapest way to kit it out is with 2x Sorcerors, 1 unit of Occult Terminators, and 1 unit of Rubric Marines.

this seems perfectly fine and fluffy to me. Now I havent seen the book (and I havent been looking to hard not my army) but the reviews seem fine.

>>50510839

That's not how the Rhubric worked. You either got dusted or went super sayin

>>50510844

That's about 800 points minimum for 2 units and 2 characters.

>>50510857
I mean they need to get more bodies from somewhere, right?

So these guys are failed sorcerors from AFTER the Rubric.

>>50510844
Again, the rules themselves are fine, but the Rubrics/Terminators aren't and they are compulsory, that's what I mean. Even taking a basic amount of the Core choice leaves you 400 points less on something that isn't that good outside of specific circumstances (99% of that is "catching MEQs in the open")

Cool rules but they'll be oudated/invalid in 6 months anyway. Little too late.

Noise Marines seem cool but I will only buy new plastics. Same goes for all the other cult legions.

>>50510868
>cool rules but they'll be outdated in a year

>cool rules but they'll be outdated in 2 years

>>50510868
CSM players retaining that complaint equity I see.

>>50510857
rubrics 150
termis 250
2 sorcs are what 150 bare

So where are you getting 800 points from?

Also its rubric marines not Rhubric.

>>50510864
Well were they ever? What could they have actually done to fix them in the first place?

>>50510817
DG having the best havocs of all legions the IW will be bitter within bitter

>>50510895
Think you meant "Bitter within, Bitter without".

>>50510909
Jap

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>>50510800
>CSM MkVI legs
>MkV and VII torsos
>MkIII helmet
>MkII-III shoulder pads
>CSM MkII style arms

>>50510890

Sorry, 520 minimum for 12 models with zero upgrades. You're right.

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>>50510895
Well it's not strictly better since IW Havocs do get Tank Hunters.
And you have these guys.

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Are Battleforces worth the money and are we gonna get more of them?

>>50510925
Yes and probably. You save like 100$.

>>50510890
They could've just allowed the purchase of spell familiars to make their Sorcerers worth a damn. I'm not fussed about being forced to roll on Tzeentch as now the table is pretty solid save for pointless boon and shitty primaris. 5 times out of 6 will net you a good power. Siphon Magic is a lot better on others but it can still be useful in a pinch.

The flamers not being 7 points would've been good too.

>>50510916
Power armor is intended to be mixed.

>>50510932
And I bet if they made the Soulreaper Cannon ignores cover instead of rending, that would've found a lot more use. Like seriously why is it S5 AP3? You're giving a unit with AP3 bolters a 4-shot AP3 bolter with 1 higher strength? It'd have been better with like some Ignores Cover upgrade you could buy for them at like 2-5 points a piece. Yeah they'd have been ridiculously expensive but they'd be miles better at doing they're job.

>>50510922
This. It's fucking sad.

520 points of unupgraded Ork boyz will tear that shit apart from sheer weight of dice without breaking a sweat.

>>50510945

>implying

>>50510944
their*

As it stands, nobody but a fluffy madman will take any upgrades for his rubrics.

>>50510945
87 Boyz could beat a fuckload of things if they can get there.

>>50510945
>>50510951

Oh wait, I forgot the Mark of Tzeentch on the sorcerers. It's 550 bare minimum for 12 models.

>>50510923
Sure the IW do more damage and are cheaper. But 1,5 points more per autocannon shot for relentless, FnP & T 5 is an nice deal.

>>50510002
They do not use big names anymore, these people are paid dimes.

>>50510963
Seems fine then for 1500 games then. Add the Token auxiliary option and you get the bonus from the war cabal and Thousand Sons grand coven.

>>50510961
With MSU they wouldn't have a problem marching into combat against 2 unupgraded 5-man units with bolters and combi-bolters and a few piddly Tzeentch witchfires (assuming TS player doesn't roll BoM or the worthless on ML1 siphon magic or Breath of Chaos which cannot wall of death and will probably never get into range in time to shoot or the freaking 3WC treason power that will let him shoot off ten sluggas and then MAYBE pin one unit of boyz or the focussed witchfire which AT BEST will kill a single nob and create a spawn).

Basically TS don't have any anti-horde at low points levels and in order to get it they need to pay a ton of points which allows their opponents to bring a fuckton more horde.

>>50510993
Sorcerers can get non Tzeentch powers and a Spell Familiar.

>>50510988

So what, go from 12 to 30 models with no way to deal with anything but Marines standing in the open?

>>50511009

But Aspiring Sorcerers can't because they're ML1 and HAVE to roll on Tzeentch.

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Trying a new CSM list, pretty standard stuff, what do y'all think?

>>50511010
Fine fuck man just throw you shit away.

>>50511015
Yeah I mean full ones.

>ITT: People who want to be unhappy.

>>50511015
>Aspiring Sorcerers
Theyll just be using force for the buff anyway.

>>50511022
>>50511032

Look, man. I'm trying to look on the bright side, but there really isn't one with Thousand Sons, especially when compared to the other Legions. Most of them.

>>50511009
For a fuckton more points, and they're still losing one of their power rolls on Tzeentch and therefore losing psychic focus on a good discipline. Hell they don't even actually end up with that many psychic dice. I run Genestealer Cults and I can bring more in a 1500 or 1850 list than TS can, AND I have 4x more bodies which are all more effective at their roles AND vehicles.

>>50511041
>I'm trying to look on the bright side
No your not. Not at all.

>>50511045
Magnus would utterly shit on the boyz desu

>>50511045
We're not talking about Magnus The OP, we're talking about Rubrics and Scarab Occult.

>>50511048
>2 sorcs are what 150 bare

It was in the original 550 pts.

>>50510993
just add a 300 points R&H detachment for the artlilery

R&H is like MSG, sprinkling a little bit of of it anywhere magically makes things better

>>50511045
can boys even hurt him without upgrades?

>>50511050
Not him, but there literally is not a bright side for TS. They got one hell of a garbage ruleset here. Too many pieces just don't work together.

>>50511071
If they had shooters, or charged.....just

>>50511075
What if he's flying?

>>50511060
Are you clinically retarded.

Bare Sorcs are not rolling on powers other than Tzeentch and don't have Spell Familiars. So which are we talking about here? The expensive kitted out sorcs which don't fit in the 550, or the ones that do and have none of those things you said they can get?

>>50511045
Magnus would win, even in melee. Everytime he kill something he spawns a Chaos Spawn and in the end those spawns would overwhelm the orks.

>>50511071
Technically, but the only way any number of boyz are beating Magnus is by building forts on top of the objectives made out of the bodies of their own dead and camping inside of them until the arbitrary cut-off time where armies score their abstract points for contrived game reasons.

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>>50511094
>Everytime he kill something he spawns a Chaos Spawn


REMOVE GUARD

>>50510971
No question.

>>50511110
>>50511094
It's only on a 6 to Wound in close combat.

>>50511050

Do enlighten me, then.

Outside of Magnus the OP, what have they got besides overpriced models?

Unlike, say, Death Guard or Emperors Children, Thousand Sons are made of Rubrics and Sorcerers.

Even if you take just a straight thousand sons legion and ignore the fluff of what makes them thousand sons, the a legion tactics are pretty ass.

Meanwhile Deathguard get +1T and FNP on basic Marines.

>>50511132
>Meanwhile Deathguard get +1T and FNP on basic Marines.
So youre just pissed of you didnt get cheesy un-fluffy rules?

Why did I fucking pick Skitarii as my first army?

(I know why, it's because I had a themed army in mind and I really liked the mechanicus fluff.)

But as someone who's never painted a miniature in his life there's all these fucking little details and lenses and embellishments and dangly bits I have to figure out the paints for, and it feels like you have to paint the top and bottom separately or there's places your brush will never reach, and after that there's no more fucking plasma calivers in the box.

I should have picked Space Marines.

>>50511142
Nothing about the DG rules are unfluffy.

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Its been nearly a year and a half since I played my last game.

>>50511144
Oh, yeah, no yeah they're a BITCH to paint, definitely don't glue the legs onto the waist before painting the inside of the robes and the legs just hold them together with blue-tac or something before then.

>>50511144
I painted my with childish glee, happiness and talent. Apply bright red basecoat, basic colours to each correct spot and then dip the fuckers. Tadaa! They look good and oily, just like mechanicus troops should look like.

>>50511132
Dont they have chaos bird guys?

>>50511142

I'm pissed that we didn't get anything usable. WE get a shitload of free moves, Alphas get infiltrate and recurring warlord, ect

>>50511186

7 point cultists with 2 melee weapons that can pay 1 point for a las pistol

>>50511079
then orks, as usual, are fucked

>>50511045
Orks can only shoot him, in meele they have no chances he is T7 they are S3.

>>50511087
Sorcerors are 60 each. Add an extra mastery level and spell familiar. 100 points.

It's 720 and can fit into most small games.

>>50511197
Tzaangors are a bit better than that, especially in the Formation.

The problem is that for support units to be good you need to have something good for them to be supporting. If Rubricae were cost-effective Tzaangors would be adequate bubblewrap/tarpit/objective holders to back them up. As it is they're just... not going to accomplish anything on their own when you're forced to spend a bajillion points for mediocre marines.

>>50511197
8 point cultists, with built in MoT.

>>50511239
and MoN

>>50511226

Don't forget the mark of Tzeentch to bring it up to 750 points for the 14 wounds.

>>50511232
Exactly

>>50511239
As opposed to 6 point cultists with MoT and autoguns? Hell, 5 point MoT cultists come with pistols.

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Any tips for starting an army of the actual bests of the Imperium?

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>Try to find Ork 'battle report'
>Find one
>Ork player is using Nobz, Boys, Lootas, and everything has PKs
>Close video

>>50511272
1. Discard Imperial Guard codex.
2. Buy Space Marines codex
3. ???
4. Profit!

>>50511272

Dont know the current meta but get lots of standart guardsman, get leman russes with magnetised turrets and get the manticore missile launcher.
Valkyries with vendetta upgrade should also be good, add in a few vets with plasma or melta there to hold objectives or flanking attacks.

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>>50511297

>>50510106

>I didn't even read your "This is the RAW. The RAW is stupid and we should ignore it, but it is how the rules are written and I feel this is a really good example as to why we shouldn't go with strict RAW" posts.
>BTFO

Okay.

>>50511297
and that's wrong because?

What is the most expensive $$$ army to collect?
IG? Orks?

>>50511322
Either Death Korp or Genestealer Cults heavy on Cultists and summoning spam.

Fuck. I might just do Night lords. Raptor troops and stealth sounds a lot more fun than sometimes +1 invul. I'd have an excuse to use all these lightning claws from my HH boxes.

>>50511226
So now you've got 7 Mastery Levels, 4 of which are wasted rolling Tzeentch powers, which are almost all either bad, situational or warp charge hungry.

So that gives you three rolls to try and get decent powers. You want blessings for BoTz, so you're not wasting warp dice casting Force when you're nowhere near CC just for that purpose. The only primaris blessing you can guarantee is Prescience... and oh, that renders your Formation bonus of re-rolling 1's irrelevant. Every discipline also has approx. 2 dud powers, so you're banking on a 2/3 chance you actually get something useful for each of these rolls. Then you only have about 10 dice on average per psychic phase to try and power off your mindbullets, so out of your four psykers which have the ability to cast 11 powers you might get 3 or 4. After that the entire force has a total of ten (10) boltgun shots, half of which are twin-linked, which oh, renders the Formation bonus of re-rolling 1's useless again, as well as Prescience.

And then 720 points of Guardsmen in cover FRFSRF and table you in one round of flashlight shooting and your invulnerable save you paid a ton of points for and which is the sole benefit of your Legion which you had to jump through hoops to improve, does literally fucking nothing.

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>>50509715
>>Word bearers, very mediocre.
Perfect!

>>50511322

Tzeentch Daemons

Anyone with a link to the epub or pdf for WoM?

>>50511322

A single squad of DKK costs 43 pounds. Make with that what you will.

>>50511331
As someone who has to date spent over a thousand dollars on new Genestealer Cults and is still less than halfway to getting my complete 1850 list + prepped summons, fucking this.

>>50511348
Hey, we get rerolls against you guys. You get hatred (us) though.

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>>50511308
>>50511321

>>50510971
IW havocs in fortiifcations gain Fearless as aprt of detachment... and they have 1-3 fortifications allowed in aux

>>50511263
The bird guys are T4 though, while the other tzeentch cultists are T3. That's not bad for a point or two.

As a little bonus they're WS4 too, so a lot of stuff hits them on a 4+ rather than a 3+ for other cultists.

>>50511272
>Any tips for starting an army of the actual bests of the Imperium?

Where's Draigo

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>>50511381
But at the end of the day you're still a Word Bear. No one wants to be a Word Bear.

>>50510863
Eh, TS were a bit relentless after the rubric too. Like Ctesias from the Ahriman books, you had to be good to join, and that guy summoned Doombreed, he was that good.

>>50511110
That is an awesome comic. Saved

>>50511263
>TS can get 12 foot-slogging models with boltguns, 14 Wounds in total, for 750 points, with the only upgrades being on two Sorcs
>people are unironically arguing this is good

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>>50511110
I don't get it

>>50511409
DG havocs are always fearless

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>>50511272

It's fun as fuck.

Be carefull about Leman Russ variants - those sold in Start Collecting got worse variants. "Demolisher" got better one.

Too bad they stoped selling "Cadian Defence Force" it had everything you need to start.

Start with 2 start collecting, 3 command squads, 2 Genestealer Cult Fists (chimera+ shock troops, it's cheaper and you can use spare cult bits for modeling). And buy as many lasgun boyz as possible (they come in good price with those chimeras)

And wyverns. Lot of them.

If you are looking for formations, there are 2 worth mentioning - artilery company that need 2 artilery models (wyvern / basilisks) and manticore. Also you need enginseer.

Another one is Asalut company that need 4 chimeras, infantry and hellhound.

If you just want to play CAD, buy priests. They are awesome. Convert/buy some primaris psykers too.

You also need a lot of plasma/melta, but GW jews gives you only one per command squad. Buy third party meltagun/plasma guns (kromlech for example). Also your sergants can take bolt pistols / boltguns that are not given in box too. Boltpistols seems to be best option atm and looks best imho.

Don't bother with expensive stuff per units like plasma pistols, power weapons etc. Meltabomb is good enough + priests gives you CC if you want.

It's fun as fuck to build lists, play and model, i started it too after necrons and i am not looking back.

And remember - don't add alies. It's tempting to add imperial knight, OP marines buffing your blob, libra etc. Once you go this way there is no way back and suddenly you are playing gravcurions with gladius instead of your guys.

>>50511462
The Decimator keeps destroying the CSM resources.

>>50511449

Yea, I'm totally going Night Lords, now.

Have fun with your 12 bolters, I'll be over here with my stealth and night fighting. Oh wait, that Raptor Talon just assaulted half your army.

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>>50511462

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>>50511436
Hey, we are a proud, proud people and won't be spoken about like that.

>>50510938
Yet it wasn't until MkVI that modularity became an important part of armour design and fluff says mixing MkIII and IV takes a master craftsman, since the two suits are very incompatible.

>>50511469
But shouldn't he remove 1/10, not reduce it to 1/10?

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>>50511442
Wobbly Model Syndrome is mainly hit-or-miss but they do have a couple of great ones

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>>50511477
I am a little out of date on the information, but I hear you guys finally got the Gal Vobrak in 40k? You know they're made of garbage right? That the Chaos Gods don't have to be nice anymore right? I really do hope you CSMfags do get nice things, it's just that Word Bearers are not my cup of tea. Seriously, what makes them special in the modern 40k besides "we're responsible for all of this horror"? They don't go faster with their red color, and spreading Chaos isn't that special.
>>50511479
Anon, they're CSM they don't care about armor mixing like some of us do. Plus they live in the Eye. Logic left them years ago.
>>50511489
It apparently doesn't think so.

>>50511471
The one neat thing about the Raptor Talon always counting as making a disordered charge when assaulting from Deep Strike is you aren't losing anything by multi-charging as much as possible when you arrive.

>>50511509
I like them for the same reason why people enjoy the Black Templars. Sheer insane zealotry.

>>50511511
>Those digits
Kek favors the Raptor Talon Multi-charge Strategy, it seems. Shadilay.

May my Night Lords brethren reap a glorious tally.

>>50511426
Absolute shit mary sues dont count

>>50511511

Well, I'm assuming your two units of 5 are reasonably spread out to cover any potential objectives, so multi-charging wasn't a concern.

>>50511521
I am the night!

Can you actually BLAM people in GW Kill Team, or are Commissars worthless in it?

>>50511172
>>50511157
I bought the painting guide since I figured it was a good a place to start as any and it's not overwhelming fancy but it's still three or four paints per area and it looks so exhausting.

I'm just going to half-ass it, I guess.

>>50511536
Don't half-ass it anon, you'll feel much better about all the time you spent painting them with good results. Spending half that time and getting a shitty result will just feel like you wasted the time you still spent, not saved the other half.

>>50511466
Commissars with power fists are good .Also i dont agree with the allies part. Sisters or a knigt can fill holes in your list. Sure guard only is also fun but it still is an option.

>>50511509
I just sayan that it'd be nice for CSM to have other armour marks besides Mk Unidentifiable Mess. TS already got their MkIV suits. Lets get more of that. Regular SM already come with MkIV, V, VI and VII bits. Lets get something like that for CSM with the older marks.

So is this meme of "Thousand Sons aren't actually that bad guys, h-honest" laid to rest now? I mean, barring Magnus, who is literally so far to the opposite end of the broken scale that no one will let you field him after one game.

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Tell me about this Jain Zar.

Why does she wear the mask?

>>50511573

I am going to use Magnus in every game that my opponent brings a super heavy, and I don't want to hear any complaints.

>>50511573
Magnus killed a bunch of his own guys who were trying to free him from Tzeentch. He's not a good guy.

>>50511586
lol

But he is a pretty BIG guy

>>50511536
When you get hang of it then it becomes quite joyful job to paint your models. 4 layers IS quite much but routine cuts the time in half. And in the end your models look fabulous.

And if they dont (sorry they wont) just dont worry - just take a look of our Blessed Savior Duncan's first model https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/14/my-first-model-part-1-our-own-duncan-rhodes/

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so how would i build a night lords list with new rules, bunch of raptors and scare them to death?

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>>50511489
Not in 40k.

>>50511585
It is literally more fair to bring 3 Wraithknights than Magnus the Red.

>>50511597
Just make them use rubric marines to even it out then.

>>50511594
Serious question: How the fuck do you do this to a model?

I couldn't do this if I tried to.

>>50511508
GET IN THE WRAITHKNIGHT SHINJI!

>>50511609

I think with a hot glue gun, then just slapping on THICC paint.

>>50511597

We shall see, I honestly don't fight wraith knights often, mainly Knights and storm surges.

>>50511594
I would start with the 2+ relic, pf+lc on your jump pack general

>>50511463
IW havocs always have tank hunters
not bad either

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Good morning /tg/!
Did you play any fun games last night? Plan on playing any today?

I played a 1500 point game today, Orks vs Tau!
The scene on the first turn, the biker mob was sadly destroyed turn one by his riptide.

>>50511582
It's an amplifier

>>50511471
>stealth and night fighting
they don't stack. NF bonus is stealth ... (DE player here)

>>50511699
>Fought against orks with Grey Knights
>Lost on the third turn

End me

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>>50511699
My bomber almost spent the entire game jinking or being shaken so it sadly couldn't drop any bombs. It looked good though!

My mega nobz and weirdboy made it in to combat only to get killed by the riptide, in close combat!
A humiliating defeat for the ladz.

It went on to crush my Warboss as well in the proceeding assault phase which was even worse, damn whoever gave that thing smash!

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>>50511699
>The Ork player has more painted models than the Tau player.

>>50511699
Where did you get those big gunz? They look a lot bigger and cooler than the official models.

>>50511712

Why do they get night fighting and stealth, then?

>>50511737

No sane person has bought orks in 5 years, so they had plenty of time to paint their collection.

We all know why the Tau army isn't paint :^)

>>50511736
>Throwing 2 wound models with no Invuln against MC
>Putting warbikers on the field when turn 1 when you know the enemy can strip your only save

This is why Orks get bad names.

>>50511699
>>50511737
>Tau shit is unprimed plastic
Every. Time.

>>50511753
>We all know why the Tau army isn't paint :^)
...We do?

>>50511712
The NL Decurion specifically gives them an additional +1 cover save when Night Fighting on top of the normal bonus they get from Stealth.

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Should I wait for Imperial Agents before adding an Avenger or a Valkyrie for my Inquisition/SoB/DKK army?

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>>50511736
The real star on the Ork team was the kustom kannonz which wiped out squad after squad of suits before finishing off the riptide.

The game was pretty close, ending 12-10 to the tau.

>>50511771
Yes, it's only like another week or two before it's out.

>>50511757
How do you beat a riptide then? Mek Gun it to death?

>>50511759

He is trying to say the player switched to them because they are easy to exploit powerful combinations, while the Ork player is a vet that loves the arm but never finishes because the have sucked forever.

>>50511747
They get Night Vision. Which means they can ignore the effects of Night Fighting.

>>50511772
I thought Tau players not painting their armies was just a meme.

>>50511771
We should see Spoilers for Imperial Agents in a week.

>>50511775
Any solid rumor for SoB beside rhino/immolator nerf along with the Battle Sister squad nerf?

>>50511784

Actually, I was thinking of >>50511764, but Night Vision would be useful, too.

>>50511737
Converted from a trukk and leman russ gun bitz.

>>50511757
What should I have done with them?
I can't just have them sitting in reserve doing nothing.

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>Assassins cost $30

Literally what?

>>50511794
There are literally no solid rumours whatsoever, whoever told you anything about SoB nerfs is trolling.

>>50511810

Nice of GW to at least confirm that new minis are coming. They've got a long way to go, but they're moving in the right direction. It's nice to see.

>>50511764
>>50511798
Not seeing that in Veterannoob's list. Got a source?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2820/705017.page#9054950

>>50511691
IW are superior when they can sit down in their fortfication and nobody is trying to shot them. But marching a squad of plague havocs up to the ememy shoting autocannons from their hips an charging afterwards will be funny.

>>50511820
I thought that too until the details on WoM came out and Thousand Sons were buttrekt while tzeentch daemons got even more OP.

I mean I GUESS they're improving overall. The rest of Traitor Legions is really nice and a welcome update.

>>50511800
>I can't just have them sitting in reserve doing nothing.

As opposed to being on the field and then being taken off the field after doing nothing

>>50511826
?army: Strike Hard/Fast: re-roll failed charge; Nocturnal Warfare: You assure Night Fight if want…during that turn all your non-vehicles cover improved by 1
Right there.

>>50511777
You don't need to beat it you need to make it irrelevant.

One of the Alpha Legion Warlord traits:
>once per game friendly AL character w/same “type” as you and can swap their positions

I don't know how useful that is, but it makes me happy.

>>50511793
No on monday according to veteranoob

>>50511830

I'm not too worried about individual balance issues right now, since 8th edition will most likely clean house and rebalance across the board.

have there been any spoilers for the 4 new formations from the battleforces?

>>50511835
Ah, I see how you can read it that way. Thanks.

>>50511810
Well with the steady nerf of SoB Seraphim no longer using bolt pistol in close combat, bad AoF Even shittier HQ and Special characters

It would not surprise me if they turn them into shitty Imperial Guard veterans with power armour

>>50511846

I thought 8th was just going to be 7th+faq and a few little adjustments.

>>50511860
8th is finally going to put the knife to the throat of Orks and write them out of the game.

>>50511860

I dunno, rumors seem to suggest that it's going to be more of a shakeup, which is desperately needed.

>>50511860
Well ruins not having heights would need at least an explanation.

All thou flaming an entire 8 floor high building with a heavy flamer is delicious.

>>50511860
It's going to be half way to AoS.

>>50511860
Where did you hear that? Literally every rumour source is saying 8th is going to be the biggest change to the game since the jump from 2nd to 3rd which rendered every Codex at the time completely unusable and required all-new army lists across the board.

You know, kinda like, say, Warhammer End Times -> Age of Sigmar...

>>50511876
>All thou flaming an entire 8 floor high building with a heavy flamer is delicious.

My lootas disagree.

Green and red?

Blue and red?

Light purple and red?

Could someone inform me on how to make a list with the new traitor legion rules? Do I just create a list from the current formations of traitors hate with the requirements?

>>50511860
No, rumors consistently say it will be a significant change, though not at drastic as AoS. I believe drastic simplification of Psykers is often cited as an example.

>>50511889
For what.

>>50511889
For?

>>50511907
Daemon Prince. Can't decide on what mark to give him and a bunch of possessed.

Skin to match his mark, armour of WB.

>>50511883

>Apoc nonsense stuffed into every nook and cranny of the game
>Psychic phase brought back for some inexplicable reason
>Strength D everywhere

40k needs an Age of Sigmar to the rules, although obviously not the fluff.

>>50511892
You could do that, but then you'll lose out on the Decurion benefits of the Legion. Just use the Detachment in the Traitor Legions book for the Legion you want. Traitor's Hate is basically a paperweight now outside of the fluff.

>>50511915
>>50511913

>>50511887
I love facing Orks with my SoB/Inquisition, I can even use more Flamers! That makes me very happy.

>>50511592
Yeah, I watched the very very introductory Duncan guide to painting things before I got started. There's usually hope...

Wish me luck in paintland.

>>50511892
Less than a month to 20fucking17 and people still can't figure out how to make Battle-Forged lists in 7th ed? This is fucking embarrassing man. Read the rulebooks.