/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General

first for rangers

>>50490609
2nd for Halfcasters

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Anyone ever had custom dice made for them?
I have for card mats, but not for dice.

>>50490644
Do these catgirls let me break the sound barrier?

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>>50490549
>>50490553
>>50490570


well see this class also steps on the toes of those classes sort of.

since i been playing since before 2000, I'm remember well the elemental savant prestige classs, which turned the caster (usually arcane but could go cleric with the proper domain requirement) into an elemental. And when I say part beast, I don't mean like the druid shapeshifting into a full beast, the old geomancer class gave you a little bit of beast here and there. Like you could constrict like a snake, get a camel's hump, grow a crocodile mouth, and so on. That portion is closer to a totem barbarian.

http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/general/geomancer.shtml how it was

reposting cause i didn't notice the new thread

>>50490653
Have we breached the sound barrier with tabaxi?
I thought we were still way below it.

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You can play a sorcerer with 8 charisma and have no problem casting spells because you can just choose spells that don't need attack rolls or saves, such as shield, magic missile, and sleep.

>>50490679
I would highly not recommend doing that though.

>>50490679
Just go away please

Only 8 INT Wizards are allowed here

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>>50490668

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>>50490609
I am so goddamn pissed at how shitty rangers are. Seriously, why the fuck even put them in the game if you are just going to ass fuck them for three editions straight? Okay I admit they were slightly better in 4e but that would require me to actually play 4e, which no sane fucking person wants to do. Rangers aren't even second-line fighters anymore, they are fucking 3rd line skill monkeys that can't do anything right. They are worse than fucking bards. Now they are so useless they have full spellcasting to make up for how much shit they suck. Excuse me, I didn't see fucking Aragorn using spells. He didn't need any spells, except maybe lay on hands in that one part, which is a fucking paladin spell. In fact most 3.5 builds of aragorn I've seen have him pegged at ranger 1 fighter 3 paladin 2... so what the fuck? Ranger is so fucking useless that even the character who fucking DEFINED rangers can't be arsed to take more than one level in the goddamn fucking class that was fucking NAMED AFTER HIM.

SERIOUSLY????

I have more issues with ranger which I will cover in a minute.

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>>50490679
>A post was posted, then another just like it

>>50490679
Top kek. They removed ability score requirements to cast spells? That's hilarious.

Wait, so I can play a 5 Int orc who can barely form a complete sentence but I can cast spells so long as they don't use attack rolls or saves? That's fucking awesome.

Also doesn't sleep allow a save? Or did they make it automatically put you to sleep with no chance to resist since 5e is caster edition 2.0?

>>50490728
That need an *INCREDIBLE* amount of setup, but yeah looks like that'd do it.

>>50490752
>They are worse than fucking bards

Bards are great though

>>50490662
If it steps on the toes, than that means a subclass is the best way to build it.

Example, take Sorcerer, look to Favored Soul and Dragon as examples. Favored Soul gives extra spells, which means you can give them a bit of extra nature and druidic style magic in addition to some of the Arcane and Elemental stuff sorcerers already get. From there, you can have those partial elemental/beast transformations be an option, either akin to picking one element like dragon sorcerer, or picking several different ones as you level like Totem barbarian.

It's the sort of thing that works perfectly as an Elemental Sorcerer.

>>50490752
Is this pasta?

I think it is, but on the off chance that it's not, read this retard.
https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf

Even base ranger is 500x more competitive than 3.0/3.5 ranger *EVER* was.

> new thread
> 16 posts in
> it's already filled with baits, trolls, and reactionfags

welp

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>>50490815
I suppose that works

QUICK, TO MY COPY OF 3RD EDITION TOME AND BLOOD!

>>50490829
You're not helping

>>50490829
It's that time of day.

>>50490778
Cast Sleep. Roll 5d8. That many hit points worth of creatures fall asleep for one minute. Doesn't use your primary spellcasting stat.

>>50490778
You definitely need a minimum to multiclass but i'm not sure about starting out.

>>50490934
>>50490778
You don't need a minimum stat to start as a class.

>>50490827
No they aren't, all you had to do with 3.5 rangers was not put down your favored enemy until you actually started fightin shit, which was only fair because you would know in-character what were common enemies to fight, and the DM rarely noticed anyway. Mix this with rapid shot and two weapon fighting and against your favored enemy you were bad-ass. Still no candle to a true caster but not bad.

Also the revised ranger you posted is bogged down with useless features. Ever played a ranger? Half the group takes a shit on you if you want the spotlight for two minutes to go hunting or set up camp. "oh well travel's boring so we just gloss over ittt" says the nu male DM in his whiny drawl. Well fuck you cunt, I made a ranger, that's his fucking job. Fighter slashes shit like the meathead moron he is, wizard solves everything with a fucking spell, and cleric heals. Let me play my goddamn class. Oh look the game completely lacks any rules for hunting or survival! Yay! So even if you want a wilderness survival minigame, you have to homebrew (codeword for: you do the work, even though you spent a shitton for these books). So basically, rangers don't get to have any fun, they just get to sit back and be shitty second line fighters while fighter gets like 10 extra attacks.

>>50490960
You should take a short break from the internet for your own mental health.

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>>50490951
>>50490934
>>50490911
Top kek. So 5e is basically completely broken. I can start out with literally 3 Intelligence, and be strategically outsmarted by a fucking nonsentient slime ball, yet I can still master the complex rituals of casting a fireball.

Holy shit that is retarded. Please tell me there is errata for this??

>>50490960
>>50490983
Hey guys! Virt's back! Stop taking the bait!

>>50490960
>No they aren't
K this is bait. Have fun bro.

>>50490985
When you run a game, make class prerequisites a house rule.

>>50490985
b8

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>>50490778
but just, how long can you keep up the charade of only using spells with no save and still be effective?

>>50490752
Oddly enough the player in my game doing the ranger thing LIKES the 5e ranger, and HATES the UA Ranger.
As he says, he likes the ranger class for its utilities.

We homebrewed a quick switch so Primeval Awareness works more like a Paladin's Divine Sense rather than burning a spell slot, but otherwise he's been absolutely happy with the "stock" 5e Ranger.
He hates the UA Ranger because it's practically just a pure martial class now.

>>50491032
Pretty much forever depending on the build.
You don't get a save against wall of force, for instance.

>>50491013
> pointing out a critical failure in the system, is bait

No, it's called bringing up a legitimate issue. Did Wizards seriously fuck this up? And how do we fix it?

>>50491003
No. Because that doesn't fix it being broken in RAW and not making any goddamn sense.

Hell, a fighter with 7 Strength couldn't get away with being effective, but a wizard with 7 Int can? Looks like caster supremacy strikes again.

>>50490985
You've clearly never actually read the 5E players handbook or played 5E DnD before, but I'll humor you.

If you use point buy, your starting stats vary from 8 to 15 before racial mods, so the only way to have a 3 intelligence is to roll your ability scores.
You could be a sorcerer and cast fireball using charisma or a light cleric and cast it with wisdom and have a 3 intelligence and there would be no problem.
If you were a wizard with 3 intelligence you would prepare a number of spells per day equal to you wizard level plus your int bonus (minimum of 1) so with a -4 int bonus you wouldn't be preparing that many. Your fireball's dexterity save DC is 8 plus you int bonus plus proficiency, so most creatures would have no trouble saving for half damage.

So you would still be able to know fireball in your spellbook and maybe prepare it, but you wouldn't really be a master of it as a wizard with 3 intelligence. Sorcerer or cleric, no problem with low int.

>>50491061
A fighter with 7 strength and 16 dexterity is fine.

>>50491052
But... the revised ranger has even more utility than the PHB ranger. Are you sure you're talking about revised and not the 5-level scrapped ambuscade ranger?

>>50491061
You are bait.
Rule zero.

Jesus Fucking Christmas guys, stop taking Virt's bait.

Any word yet on what the next setting guide will be? Any chance of Dragonlance or Dark Sun?

>>50491074
> if you use pointbuy

Yeah your argument falls apart right there when I use 4d6 drop lowest like most gaming groups.

> You could be a sorcerer and cast fireball using charisma or a light cleric and cast it with wisdom and have a 3 intelligence and there would be no problem.

So? You could also be a mentally retarded wizard. This is fucking hilarious. My friend actually wanted to do this with sorcerer but with Wizard it's even better. Also, fuck using fireball, you can still cast magic missile.

Hey wait a minute.... if you can cast magic missile with a 3 Intelligence, why not teach it to ochre jellies in the dungeon? Actually, they should be able to learn it pretty easily. Actual literal non sentient undead can just spam the party with magic missile spells.

http://simantics.blogspot.com/2011/01/d-and-iq.html

According to this post an Intelligence of 4 is a 66 IQ. Stuff you cannot do with a 66 IQ... fucking multiplication and basic algebra. But you CAN cast magic missile!

So basically, casting magic missile is less complicated than multiplication. Yet wizards take years to learn it.

Wizards are even more retarded than actual retards.

>>50491094
Positive. We started gaming together long after that original "magic-free ranger" UA was released and specifically discussed the new UA Revised Ranger in comparison with the stock PHB Ranger, and he just feels that the stock Ranger is the more Ranger-y one.

I can try and go back through Skype logs to see exactly what he had to say, as this happened back when that UA was just released and my memory's not too fresh.

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>>50491125
>Rolling stats
>Most groups

>>50491128
There's a magic-free ranger? Sauce? I would love to play that, even if it was shittier than the original, just so I don't have to play a ranger with spellcasting.

>>50491125
>like most gaming groups.
Citation or get the fuck out.

>>50491143
Check the multiclassing article in UA. There's a hastily slapped together spell-less Ranger as an example.

It's not very good.

>>50491143
The spell-less ranger as it's been printed by WotC thus far doesn't work when applied to the revised ranger, since it modifies things in a way that's no longer compatible.

Also it was just bad and spells are way better.
Just treat your spells as non-magical abilities if you'd prefer that kind of fluff.

>>50491052
>he likes the ranger class for its utilities
>He hates the UA Ranger because it's practically just a pure martial class now

...

Have either of you even read the UA Ranger?

>>50491152
Citation: go outside, instead of trying to find a game group on roll20 that doesn't flake before the first session.

You want me to find a study saying the sky is blue, too?

>>50491125
I don't know statistically for home games how many players roll for stats but point buy is the standardized way to get ability scores now. Especially for organized play and character portability. Or else you get people showing up swearing that they have a couple 18s and 17s that they totally rolled fairly.
Technically any character can take the magic initiate feat and learn magic missile, so you don't need to be a wizard or be intelligent at all to learn it.

>>50491135
>>50491152

Stop eating the fucking bait

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>>50491128
The revised ranger isn't the spell-less ranger. It's got the same spell list and subclasses and general features, just rejiggered to be more useful.

>>50491167
No I meant like can you post a link?

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>>50491191
>Citation: go outside, instead of trying to find a game group on roll20 that doesn't flake before the first session.
I did, in fact. We meet every Wednesday at a nice little board game cafe. And guess how many of us rolled for stats?

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What fundamental limitations would you put on the oracle in Storm Kings Thunder? it's primarily there to answer questions about the giants but one of my players wants to ask it unrelated character backstory fluff

>>50490752
I'm mostly just annoyed that Sage Advice claims that you can't move while using Whirlwind Attack even though the RAW clearly says otherwise.

>>50490752
Why are they shit? They can consistently shit out damage with colossus slayer/multiattacks/hunters mark.

>>50491209
>can't google UA multiclassing
Do you need someone to wipe your ass for you too?

>>50491125
>Yet wizards take years to learn it.

Correction, the AVERAGE wizard takes years to learn it.

An intelligence 3 Wizard learning magic missile is basically on par with attempting to teach a dog complex calculus. Yeah, at a certain point you might drill in the rote memorization so that he can count his way through the problems, but it's going to take decades of work, rather than years for a normal person.

And instead of a dog, you're talking about a grandmaster wizard spending a decade trying to teach an Orc how to magic missile because he thought it'd be funny?

Most sane GMs are going to ask you to come back with a character that's actually believable, instead of 'lol that's so wacky XD'

Just know that the vast majority of spells are absolute garbage in the hands of such a mage, he won't have any of the other arcane knowledge a group typically wants a Wizard along for.

It really is like bringing along a Fighter in 3 strength and dex. Yeah, you can give him a shield and fullplate and have him trudge along super slowly, doing nothing except casting his eldritch knight cantrips and using his reactions for Protection fighting style, but why would you? Why should the rest of the party be forced to tag along with the special needs child?

>>50491143
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes

>>50491179
I skimmed through it. Thought the loss of favored terrain was kind of a bummer. Thought the limitations on favored enemies at early levels were brilliant so you don't immediately have a dude ready to have bonuses at dragons at 1st level was pretty brilliant, but since my players have no interest in putting that build into play and I've got no games where I'm a player, I didn't check too thoroughly into it.

>>50491232
Have it ask for gold for every question, with a fairly high minimum and no maximum for the question asked.

>>50490995
Ignoring the top part and all the ad hominem he's not entirely wrong. My current DM doesn't even have fucking maps for us to look at in combat, let alone for travel. We just magically appear where we decided to go to (read:where he railroaded us to) so a ranger would lose out on his primary job. Since he doesn't know about UA, ranger is absolute garbage who contributes next to nothing. Its up to the GM to let ranger actually feel useful much moreso than with other classes and its a helluva lot easier to just do it by accident than with other classes.
If you wanted to fuck the caster over you have to actively put down anti-magic fields everywhere. To fuck with a ranger and make him feel useless you just have to forget to keep track of food.

>>50491276
You'd have the same problem in your game only *significantly* worse if you were in the same circumstance playing ranger in 3.5 instead. Which was my not-unclear point.

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>>50491259
Nah that wouldn't work. The book doesn't account for anything outside giant questions, giving the players a quest to prove themselves before revealing specifics. Its meant to be a direct link to the god with divination magic.

The real question is would Annam the all father know/care about non giant things.

>>50491257
I don't know where you are getting this made up lore about archmages spending decades teaching dogs calculus or whatever. Some DM vetoing a character for no reason is nothing new, since That Guy always has a stick up his butt about whatever arbitrary worldbuilding that he already assumed.

A fighter with no combat skills can't really attack anything. A wizard with low intelligence can still attack enemies with magic missile or cast spells like fog cloud, haste, enlarge, magic weapon, etc. So they are not really the same.

>>50490960
>>50491276
I mean... There are rules about traveling in the 5E PHB & DMG. They're actually quite extensive. Food, water, shelter, time, foraging, drawing maps, navigating, tracking...
Admittedly, they're not fantastic, but there are rules.

It's just that, quite clearly for most players... it's boring to read, boring to follow, boring to play.

I think if you want a session/campaign with emphasis on survival, you just have to be sure everyone's OK with it.
But most players wont be, and most DMs aren't really interested either, from my experience.

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>5 sessions
>still level 1

Low level D&D is fucking terrible

>>50491338
I've found gating questions with enormous constraints adds a cool element to how players interact with the questioner.

You do you tho senpai

>>50490728
You can always choose to fail a saving roll.

>>50491369
>5 sessions
>still level 1
How?

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Boy, these are some really shitty arguments.

Let's talk about how you should be playing Monks instead.

>>50491369
Did your DM literally not have any monsters? Fighting almost anything gives you the exp to level up to 2.

>>50491371
The idea is fine but its about 12 questions too late. My only concern is the non story questions.

But if I let him get an answer I'll definitely make it have a cost/quest.

>>50491387
Is it just me or are monks played better as "tanks"?

>>50491388
>Not doing milestone

>>50491369
>DM hands us empty character sheets
>"hey what level are we starting at"
>one
>get up and leave

>>50491352
I know you only play fighter to hit things with a sword, but a fighter is just as hard to hit whether he has 3 str or 18, and he can still do a number of maneuvers that don't require a stat, and he can still cast eldritch knight stuff. So that's 2/3 options that are just as useful as a retarded wizard, and if anyone actually picks champion then I feel bad for them, because that's a fairly poorly designed and boring option

>>50491223
Okay. That's three or four of you. Whereas the five or six groups I have played with (that's right champ, five or six. I've been playing RPGs longer than you've been alive and been DMing since before your balls dropped) have rolled for stats. And so have 90% of the groups I have made contact with in other ways (I am very involved in the RPG community in my city and I basically control the local gaming situation). So I think I know a little bit more than you do, chump.

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>>50491408
Tanks can also murder everything.

>>50491384
>>50491388
We have had one combat per session.

we've had three near TPKs, so they were high CR encounters (four CR 1/4 bandits + a dire wolf as the biggest one)

He divides the XP among the six of us. Pretty sure he's bullshitting us, he's definitely the type who doesn't like the players to have any real power or answers to any thing

>>50491415
This. I generally milestone up to 3 so players get rewarded for their initial adventuring and get up to having abilities to experiment with as things open up more.

>>50491256
Yeah maybe you could just post the link instead of being a tremendous douche about it?

>>50491428
I stopped rolling for stats halfway through 2nd Edition.

>>50491424
The only player I've had who picked champion picked it because he didn't want to have to remember lots of things.

>>50491428
I also never roll for stats in any of my groups, since we all have a consensus that it's toxic.

>>50491376
There's no such rule in 5e. When you're subjected to a saving throw, you roll the saving throw.

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>>50491369

Tell your DM that this progression rate is not fun. Recommend another system.

>>50491428
What city so I can never go there?

>>50491428
>Okay. That's three or four of you.
7, actually.
>Whereas the five or six groups I have played with
Liar.
>I've been playing RPGs longer than you've been alive
Liar.
>and been DMing since before your balls dropped
Liar.
>I am very involved in the RPG community in my city
Liar.
>and I basically control the local gaming situation
Liar.
>So I think I know a little bit more than you do, chump.
You certainly don't know how to lie. I mean, this is like the Navy SEAL copypasta of grognard credit right here.

>>50491451
There is no class in 5e that requires you to remember an extreme amount of shit, atleast nothing that requires you to remember anywhere near as much shit as stuff in past editions did

maybe if you're multiclassed six different ways

>>50491415
>fighting one goblin in 20 different combats as a party of four results in the same XP as fighting 20 goblins at once
This is why the XP system is stupid.

>>50491486
Not true, 20 goblins at once is worth way more exp since it is a harder encounter. Have you ever actually read the DMG and built an encounter using the rules?

>>50491484
I agree but this inexperienced player looked at battlemaster and eldrich knight and decided they were way too complicated.

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>>50491511
consider me triggered

>>50491369
Time to start abusing Animal Handling. Buy lots of dogs and have them fight for you.
Better yet, buy donkeys, they're more cost-efficient.
If you can use books outside of core, cows are even better.

Also, buy lots of oil and ball bearings and load up your livestock. Give them dispensers so everywhere they go they cover the ground with oil and marbles. And maybe your cows will also explode when the wizard casts Fire Bolt, but presumably that just deals more damage anyway.

Just put some effort into it, I'm sure once the DM sees you raising an army of burning farm animals he'll say "Okay, the players are finally taking the game seriously and they deserve a level up."

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>>50491486
>20 encounters with 1 goblin equals 1,000 XP
>1 encounter with 20 goblins equals 4,000 XP
It should actually be closer then it is desu.

>>50491473
Story based is also a good way to keep them on track.

SKT, for example, allows massive amounts of freedom, I had players spend four sessions doing sidequests which was fine with me. But then they started wanting to level up and get new abilities.

Better do the main quest then.

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>>50491469
You CAN make a save.

It represents an attempt to resist. Just relax, and let the magic of running away from the bard as fast as possible wash over you.

>>50491408
what do you mean by that

>>50491486
The players don't deserve XP if they can't beat ONE GOBLIN after he comes back 20 times

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I'm making a conversion of the 4e hexblade does anyone know where I can find the 4e trove?

>>50491570
Except Dissonant Whispers' specific wording is "The target MUST make a Wisdom saving throw."

>>50491586
Isn't the Hexblade literally just the Blade Pact Warlock though?

>>50491568
Feel like a balance is needed

Nothing fun about that way. What if they don't want to do the main story and are having fun doing sidequests?

What's more important - telling an ok story or having fun?

I guess the argument could be made that they could then overlevel the main story with sidequests, but then all you do is bump some numbers up

anyway SKT is fine because it powerlevels you to level 5 really fast. I think we made it to 5 in as many sessions

>>50491094
>>50491179

Sup guys I just spent fuck-knows-how-long finding back the part of my Skype logs where he talks about how much the UA ranger sucks...

He hates it because it's been reset to 3e era, something about how 5E improved by turning all the silly mechanics into flavor... He says he liked the original Primeval Awareness because it's about flavor rather than mechanics...
That the 5E ranger was bringing it back closer to its 1E/2E roots rather than the 3E one, wouldn't know about that as I've never had a chance to play older editions...
That's most of what I glanced through about it. It's taken me a while to find this discussion again and Skype blows chunks at scrolling through logs and I'm tired now.

>>50491625
I am playing a UA ranger and it is op. He is wrong

>>50491625
Your player is an idiot.

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>>50491625
Nah senpai he's dumb as shit.

>>50491625
Lots of players have lots of bad opinions.

>>50491625
I guess I could see that, in the sense that a level 1 Ranger gets basically no mechanical benefits except marginally being better at tracking some enemies and surviving in specific terrain.

Of course, I personally prefer a level 1 ranger to be better at fighting than a random level 1 Wizard, so I think UA is an impovement for giving those flavorful options more mechanical weight and benefit.

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>>50491568
I do story, with an eye to session. I recently got called out that it had been three sessions without a level, so I told them they better actually achieve something other than random side shenanigans.

After they successfully infiltrated a lord's manor to demand he support their revolution, they gained a level.

>>50491589
A cursory glance makes it seem like every spell that has a save has that wording. I think we might be descending into a proper rules lawyer fight. I am comfortable house ruling that a target can always willfully fail a save against a spell they know is targeting them.

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>>50491612
Chapter 1 will get you to 5.

Sidequests are fine, and they get rewards. But objectively they signed up for a book adventure, so I'd like them to at least follow along.

Or they don't have to, but towns continue to be attacked, plans continue to advance, shit continues to happen.

>>50491639
>>50491659
He is The Roleplayer, though, so that might be why he prefers the stock 5E ranger.
He's allowed his opinion and he's allowed to play what he wants so long as it's WOTC-published.

>>50491689
Would you say that you can voluntarily fail skill contests as well? Because if so you can expect PCs to start shoving each other the moment someone is grappled by a monster.

>>50491717
Get him to play the Int 8 wiz, that seems more his thing.

>>50491677
That is true.

Two things I like about the UA Ranger in particular is the incrementation of favored enemies, and the bonus to attack said favored enemies starting from the get-go.
Especially the former bit, because this ranger player of mine? Picked Abberations as his favored enemy at first level.
(I advised him this was a foolish choice but the guy is adamant on playing a character and not an optimized build, and I don't want to deny him that)

>>50491625
>I want to be terrible because it's flavorful
He does realize that flavor is something he can add himself, but mechanics aren't, right?

>>50491724
Shouldn't that contest be against the monster doing the grappling? The contest is supposed to be between opposed sides.

>>50491717
Motherfucking Stormwind fallacy retards.
WHY DO THEY EXIST?

>>50491792
Forced movement that puts a grapplee out of the grappler's range ends the grapple. It doesn't matter who you're moving. You can flying dragon kick your teammate out of a giant's grip, no problem.

>>50491810
Moving out of a creatures range provokes an opportunity attack

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>>50491810
That dragon kick should really be a contest against the giant.

>>50491830
Moving. Not forced movement.

>>50491865
I would probably rule that being willingly moved by not taking the save would provoke it. But RAW it wouldn't.

>>50491863
>This situation also applies when one of them is trying to prevent the other one from accomplishing a goal--

>for example, when a monster tries to dodge an adventurer's axe swing.
And yet we don't have both AB and AC rolls.

>>50491887
Yep.
I've constantly used that to grapple my teammates out of bad spots.
It's kind of odd - I don't particularly like it.

>>50491906
I don't really see a difference between someone spending their turn grappling or shoving a teammate out of harm's way before it shows up (a creature with 30 speed appears within 30 feet of your Wizard and you can't hit him anyway, so you shove the Wizard 5 feet back) and doing so after it's showed up (something is grappling your Wizard) from a mechanical perspective.

Does it make less sense based on physics? Yes. But D&D doesn't give a flying fuck about physics, even when it comes purely to non-magical shit. actually it routinely underestimates the power and speed of characters to the point of nerfing human capability so maybe it would be more consistent to say that since this is something that favors martials it shouldn't be allowed because fuck you roll a cleric or wizard idiot

>>50491906
you do sacrifice an attack for that though...
it's well worth it but i wonder how i'd react if my players would make it an habit

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>>50491810
>>50491863
The telekinesis spell can totally shove people around like that.


>>50491901
If you want to play a game with defense vs attack rolls. You can do that.

>>50491956
If you can overpower the tentacled beast, I see no reason why you can't do that.

>>50491906
When you're wielding a weapon against someone and suddenly they get full-nelsoned and dragged away from you, I feel like it'd be much easier to execute an AoO under that circumstance than under someone moving away without the disengage action. That's mostly why I think it's a bit odd.

>>50491956
>>50491997

>>50491983
I want to post this picture so often in these thread it's absurd.

>>50491232
If the oracle represents what Annam knows, then it isn't omniscient, just pretty smart. Clearly knows more about things relevant to giants. See the spell Commune.

>>50492004
I don't get its use in this instance, because it's seemingly in response to people arguing for RAW and saying there's no reason to change D&D to be "more reasonable". Shouldn't it be directed at the people who take issue with shoves against a grappled target freeing them, rather than shoves against the grappler? Doesn't the latter invite an argument like, "If the grappler has the strength to keep a character in place or drag them with him, they should have the strength to maintain their grip on this person even while being shoved back five feet themselves."

>>50492026
I did it in response to defense vs attack rolls. I was actually thinking about using F.A.T.E.

You know, if you go by RAW, it says to NOT FOLLOW THE FUCKING RAW

>>50491788
Possibly?
But he's happy with his ranger the way he is, and he doesn't feel strongly about the UA revised ranger, so who am I to force him to accept the UA ranger?

>>50492042
Yeah. Fuck proficiency bonuses - I'm gonna use d1000's instead.

>>50492055
Ata boy!

Girl? Dickgirl? I wouldn't want to presume.

>>50491983
Bigby's Hand anybody?

>>50491773
Yeah. That's the other thing. You can still pick for flavor for favored enemies, it's just now you'll actually be better at killing them compared to someone else, rather than needing to wait until level 20 to do so.

Having advantage on initiative and your first 'surprise attack' in combat from level 1 is also nice, as it gives Ranger a way that they're a cut above a standard archer right away, just like how Paladin starts with Lay on Hands and is therefore more tanky than average along with heavy armor.

Granted, Fighter at 1st still out-fights both, but they bring something to the table, and that's what matters.

>>50491773
I guarantee you anything in the world this "roleplayer" "flavor" fag will be the one bitching about his character being weak/the other player's characters being too strong

I have seen this so many times and it's always inevitable

>>50491997
>suddenly they get full-nelsoned and dragged away from you, I feel like it'd be much easier to execute an AoO
No one's grappling an already-grappled target and pulling them away, they're shoving them away.

You're holding a football. I'd rather you stop. Instead of walking up and grabbing the football on either side and trying to yank it out of your arms, I'm just going to punch it real hard so that it slips through your grip and bounces away.

Except the football is my party member and somehow he's not going to take any damage from this megapunch because don't worry about it shoves don't do damage

>>50490752
They seem pretty strong with the UA though

>>50492091
I'm talking about pulling out of combat range and not necessarily out of a grapple atm.

So goblin x comes up to your wizard with dash in melee, and you use one of your attacks and a little bit of movement to move your wizard out of melee with the goblin for instance.

Thinking time!

In the scenario where you're fighting against an enemy with greater invisibility cast on them and you don't have a means of detecting them magically, how would you do it in a mundane way?

Was toying with the idea of readying an action to reaction grapple the weapon that strikes or square the person is in.
If you were a DM would you allow that?
What other ways would you non-magically combat an invisible foe?

>>50492116
area spell

keep on defense, back to back with another party member

>>50492109
Well, picture this from the Goblins perspective. He's holding his blade against a skilled fighter and some guy in a bathrobe, watching carefully to see if the one in the bathrobe tries to flee.

Suddenly he sees movement, the Fighter pulls his shield back, the Goblin braces himself as he expects to be bashed...only for the fighter to fling the Wizard aside and out of the Goblin's reach.

>>50492116
You can still hear noises from an invisible person.

>>50492116
Listen for their breathing and footsteps and swing at them. An invisible creature isn't completely undetectable.

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>>50492091
>And in order to do that, I will roll a contest against the football!

>>50492109
It's not horrible. I see no reason you have to roll against the wizard to pull him out.

>>50492116
A bag full of flour.

>>50492109
I think the previous example was about moving your party member before the enemy was in range (as in, they would have a turn between yours and your party member's, during which they'd run up and stab the guy).

If the enemy is already next to both of you, you're in a position to simply shove them instead. But if you'd rather shove the party member because it's less likely they will make the save (or you're allowing for intentional failures) I think that's fine too, since again, you're harshly shoving someone instead of just dragging them away.

It's a bit like tactical RPGs where you have a literal Push option to move enemies/allies around in lieu of attacking. I know there were a few Fire Emblems that did this (on top of a "Rescue" feature that let you pick them up into your square and move them around with your superior speed, depositing them elsewhere). You could use the Push stuff to have a bunch of slower characters chain-shove someone into a position where they could run up to a way distant enemy and stab them with their full movement.

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>>50492128
>how would you do it in a mundane way?

>area spell

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>>50492130
You can grapple your partner without getting into melee with the gob though, like pic.

>>50492138
That's not what I'm saying - I'm saying the gob should probably get an AoO, but RAW it doesn't.

>>50492160
I have no idea what you're trying to say.

>>50492090
I dunno man, we've been gaming since June and I haven't seen him complain about any limitations his character might suffer from.

>>50490679
How long are we going to do this?

>>50492168
Gob is in square. Wizard is in front of gob. You are directly behind wizard in this line.

You full nelson wizard. Pull wizard 5 feet back. Wizard is now out of melee range with gob, while you were never in melee range with gob.
Gob doesn't get AoO.
Sad.

>>50492116
This came up in one of my early SKT sessions. We were in some giant's flying wizard tower and some Zhentarim(?) assholes released an invisible air elemental or something from a bag onto us, and it was wrecking everyone's face.

Luckily I looted a bag of saffron from the sacked inn of Nightstone in a previous session. Chucked it in the general direction of an ally who just got attacked by the thing, and the swirling air mass kind of sucked up some of it. The particles were trapped inside its circular swirling shit so it was somewhat visible as it moved around.

On my next turn, I whipped out a torch and shoved it in, igniting the fine particles of saffron into an explosion that tore the thing up from the inside-out.

Dust explosions are no joke, children. Always carry a bag of finely-powdered flour, mushroom spores, or similarly combustible dust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion

>>50492185
As long as people keep being baited by it.

>>50492186
He was saying that the goblin should get an AoO against the Wizard being yanked out of the way because a full-nelson yank is slower or more obvious than someone just walking off at 5ft/sec.

>>50492200
The truth is always the best bait there is.

>>50492186
So see my original point. The goblin would be watching to see if the Wizard tried to flee, not if he suddenly got yanked backwards.

Think of it like the Disengage action, you can move backwards carefully or slowly while keeping your guard up, which is presumably the default position someone is in. The Wizard doesn't give the same opening for an opportunity attack, because even he didn't know he was about to move there.

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>>50492167
>>50492186
>>50492218
Roll a contest to see if the Gobbo has a fast enough reaction to get to the Wizard before he is out of harms way.

>inb4 the rules don't say you can do that
It is a magic goblin that breaks all the rules it needs to.

>>50492188
Metal as fuck.

>>50492204
Yes, that is what I'm saying.

>>50492218
That sounds very silly. It clearly sees the fighter go up and full nelson the wizard. That is not necessarily a subtle action.

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>>50492188
>A gigantic explosion of flour dust destroyed a mill in Minnesota on May 2, 1878, killing 14 workers at the Washburn A Mill and another four in adjacent buildings.
so this is the power of dry baking goods......

>>50492245
8 intelligence wizard who uses bags of flour and Create Bonfire to blow things up.

>>50492232
I think we're stuck on grappling = full nelsons.

The Fighter could just as easily have walked up behind friendwizard, grabbed him by the scruff of his robe, and yanked him backwards and to the side. The goblin would never even see the arm before the wizard's in motion, nor would he have the visual cues of the wizard getting ready to move.

>>50492227
Contests are made for when the rules break down, anyways.

>>50492188
Awesome, and checked.

>>50492232
>It clearly sees the fighter go up and full nelson the wizard

Firstly, doesn't need to be a full nelson. The fighter can just grab the Wizard's arm and tug him backwards. Probably pretty easy due to relative strength/weights.

Secondly, if you're in a sword fight against someone, the last thing you're expecting is that the guy behind them is going to suddenly yank them out of the way.

Again, think of the Disengage action. Then consider that this occurs even faster than that because a high level Fighter could be grappling and shoving the entire party away from something within a single attack action.

It is entirely feasible that the Goblin can't make an opportunity attack, because simply put he does not have the opportunity.

If the opportunity was there, the rules would let you make opportunity attacks against forced movement. Honestly, it's better they don't, because then you don't get a swing at the guy that gets shunted 40 feet away in an instant by the Warlock blast.

>>50492274
You can fluff it however you like, but it all gets grouped under grapple.

So in this case we're talking about, I'm specifically fluffing it as a big obvious full nelson. Still no AoO RAW tho, since it's forced movement and not the wizard's movement.

>>50492289
>an Open Palm Monk using Flurry of Blows to knock targets past his allies, chasing after them and repositioning to push them past all over again
>repeatedly
how horrifying

>>50492297
So in conclusion, the correct answer is that while you can fluff grapples in many ways, in this instance, the way to have it make sense is to fluff your grapple in a specific way.

Just like how you can fluff attacks in any way, but it gets kind of silly if you fluff your successful attack with a dagger against a knight in full plate as smashing through his shield and slicing his arm in half. By RAW nothing prevents it, but that's the sort of thing that works better if they're a 24 strength barbarian with an axe and can juggle wizards without effort.

>>50492289
>>50492289
No it doesn't, but see >>50492297
Let's make it more obvious.

For 5 rounds previous to the actual full nelson, the fighter is moonwalking in the square just behind the wizard. He is speaking in goblin to the goblin. "Hey you. Hey goblin bro. Hey. I'm gonna yank this wizard away from you from behind in 20 seconds senpai. 18 seconds. Get ready man. 14 seconds. Prepare senpai or he gone. 10 seconds. I'll shout just before I do it senpai don't worry. 4." All while he's making arm motions swinging his hands beneath the wizard's armpitts in like fashion to how he'll pull him away.

It comes down to the moment. The fighter says "OK GOBLIN HERE WE GO I'M DOIN' IT", grabs the wizard in exactly the fashion he'd been mimicking and explaining to the goblin, and as slowly as he possibly can within the span of 6 seconds pulls the wizard backwards exactly five feet.
RAW there is no AoO from this.

>>50492336
>Other party member is a Tunnel Snake Fighter for infinite opportunity attacks

Welcome to the blender

>>50492350
>party member asks to use the tunnel fighter style

what the fuck were they thinking with that?

Any recommendations for what level I should have my Open World / Sandbox Campaign?

>>50492297
>>50492338
To get back to the original point.

Can't the wizard just go along with the grapple and decide to fail their grapple contest against the true master, the Fighter? Surely the wizard has done this song and dance before?

>>50492346
Your ridiculous objection to the rules as written is even more contrived than whatever explanation for the forced movement not granting attacks of opportunity.

>>50492361
Level one, or level 3.

Either just the core class stuff, or enough to gain the archetypes.

Or whatever your players want.

>>50492350
>said Fighter is also a Battlemaster
>Monk shoves an enemy past Fighter
>Monk runs past Fighter and gets in position
>just as enemy moves past Fighter, Fighter reaction-Pushing Attacks the enemy and shoves him past Monk
>Monk takes an AoO, then maneuvers behind the enemy again and shoves him back past Fighter with his final Flurry
>the Hasted Sorcerer Warlock appears and begins Swiftspelling his Repelling Blast

>>50492363
Obviously - no one contests that. That's not what's being questioned.

>>50492372
It's not an objection to the rules - try reading dipshit. >>50491906

Not particularly liking something =/= wanting it dropped or gotten rid of.

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>>50491232
Its the divination spell. Divination cannot tell you about past events, only events within the next seven days.

>>50492346
>Let's make it more obvious.
>By which I mean let's make it inane and unrealistic.

If you stand there for 20 seconds detailing the exact way you're going to swing your sword slowly at an enemy, there is technically no mechanical effect. In cases where they assume it's a bluff or don't believe you, this makes a degree of sense, but that's often going to be disadvantage at the least, or the DM just telling you not to use your strength mod because you're clearly not putting your full force into the blow.

It's a bit like saying you jump over a pit as slowly as you possibly can in 6 seconds.

If you insist on describing your actions in a stupid way that wouldn't work, that's when the DM is free to tell you that doesn't happen or give you penalties/make exceptions.

>>50492361
Start at 3 if you don't hate your players

>>50492414
You're not making an attack roll against an enemy trying to avoid it - you're moving a character back using normal movement rules - in 5-foot increments and within the span of a round of action.

So no - really, really exceptionally bad analogies there.

>>50492393
Everyone's anonymous and I can't tell who is who, but thanks for assuming that I could figure out by your tone and vocabulary.
Coming up with contrived shenanigans which don't match the mechanics is a lot more work than just coming up with reasonable justifications for why the rules work the way they do.

>>50492387
>Fighter and monk constantly hammering and punching the enemy back and forth between them like a pinball

As a DM, I wouldn't even be mad. That sounds hella cool.

>>50492436
The situation I outlined is exactly in line with the game mechanics.

The purpose of the thought experiment is to show there are things I personally don't like about what the mechanics allow. That's it. And that's valid - both the mechanics allow that, and I don't like that the mechanics allow it. If you don't care about what I like or don't like, feel free to stop talking.

>>50491478
Eh, it might be Virt in which case he's probably right about most of that shit, unless you're also like 40.

Virt how the shit do you keep getting around your bans?

And if it's something simple, why the shit do you wait so long before coming back?

>>50492432
How is it a bad analogy?

Your complaint is that explaining in detail what you're about to do to the enemy doesn't alter anything mechanically by RAW.

Explaining to the enemy that you're about to save your ally is no different from explaining to them that you're about to attack them.

If anything, counting down to when you yank the Wizard is just going to force the Goblin to ready an action, since he isn't spontaneously reacting to an opportunity, he's getting ready for something he's been told will occur.

Yoou're constantly jumping through hoops and adding sillier and sillier stuff to try and prove RAW is silly, when a simple 'yeah, he yanks you back faster than the goblin expected' solves all of it.

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>>50492453
All frames of reference are relative.
If a Monk pushes his Fighter past an enemy, from the Fighter's perspective, the enemy is the one who is moving. Make your opportunity attack, Fighter.

>>50492464
>I don't like a thing, pay attention to me.
What a prima donna.

>>50491568
This sounds like video-gamey bullshit.

And not even a fun video game.

>>50491369

I feel ya. We're four sessions in and still level one here. Though granted, two of those were non-canon one shots while we waited for everyone to get ready, and we would have leveled at the end of the last game had our pea-brained Tabaxi ranger spend half the session trying to climb a fucking tree.

>>50492464
See >>50492338

>>50492497
As someone else playing SKT, we are actively seeking out side quests because we don't want to fucking fight Fire Giants (+11 AB, two attacks, 6d6+Str damage) at level four.

>>50492490
I can move someone backwards five feet by using my movement after grappling them in a single round.

I can't make a single attack roll that spans five rounds.
I can't defy the game's falling mechanic by making a five foot jump span five rounds.

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>>50492497

>>50492493
>I can't read

>>50492464
>Fluff actions in dumb way
>Complain when it doesn't make sense

>>50492512
Uh how? You're supposed to be level 5 after zephyros's tower drops you off wherever

>>50492528
There's nothing dumb about that. Unless you're saying someone can't full nelson someone and pull them back at the rate of about a foot a second backwards in the span of 6 seconds.

It's dumb that the goblin doesn't get an AoO is what's dumb.

How the fuck do i roll for character weight for a half orc?

Height is easy enough, rolled 2 d12, got 12 and 8, makes 20, add 20 inches to the base height of 4"10. (Please tell me i got that right btw)

Weight is confusing me, is it multiplied? If so by what? It says 2d6, so i rolled 2 d6, got a 4 and a 3, what do i do with those numbers? How does the base weight of 150lbs factor in?

>>50492547
Can't you just... make your character with the parameters you want him to have?

>>50492513
>I can move someone backwards five feet by using my movement after grappling them in a single round.

And you were talking about telling the goblin exactly what you're going to do for 5 rounds before that, and doing it as slow as possible so it takes all 6 seconds.

>I can't make a single attack roll that spans five rounds.

And I was talking about telling that enemy exactly what you're going to do for 5 rounds before that, and doing it as slow as possible so it takes all 6 seconds.

>I can't defy the game's falling mechanic by making a five foot jump span five rounds.

And I was talking about doing it as slow as possible so it takes all 6 seconds.

Again, stop complaining that describing your actions in a silly way makes them seem silly.

>>50492188

That would be an awesome item for a thief to carry around.

>>50492538
>Using zephyros's magic flying taxi service

Chapter 1 can really just be ignored. Its complete shit. Goblins, pointless village, dull plot hooks.

Even running the starter module then moving into Chapter 2 is better.

>>50492547
First you roll the Height Modifier. Add the result in inches to the base height.

Then you roll for the Weight Modifier, and multiply the original Height Modifier by the result. Then add the product to the base weight.

>>50492542
And you know the goblin doesn't get an AoO, so you should describe your grapple to save your friend in a way that would save your friend.

There are plenty of things an Athletics check can represent. Does it make more sense to describe your crossing a chasm as your Athletics check being used to jump, or being used to swim?

You're insisting on full nelson when yanking solves your problem.

>>50492542
You seem really pissy about this one particular rule when the solution right in front of you is just to fluff actions in the game so that they make sense, and then you could be happy. Instead you make up the most outrageous description so that you continue to be upset about it.
Whatever man.

>>50492556
>And you were talking about telling the goblin exactly what you're going to do for 5 rounds before that, and doing it as slow as possible so it takes all 6 seconds
Yes, which is completely possible.

>And I was talking about telling that enemy exactly what you're going to do for 5 rounds before that, and doing it as slow as possible so it takes all 6 seconds
You technically could do that by pure RAW, but that's not reasonable in the same way it's reasonable for a person to grab someone and drag slowly backwards. Unless you're doing some silly spin shit, in which case telling your opponent isn't necessarily going to help if you're actually aiming for them (which you are if you're making an attack roll against them ;) ).

You could *technically* rule raw about the 6 second jump, but again, that's not reasonable in the same way simply slowly dragging someone back is. You jump the pit, and if you don't do shit otherwise, you're just not doing shit otherwise - the jumping of the pit doesn't take six seconds.

What you described is silly without qualification - what I described is only silly in context.

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>>50491724
>>50492393

The next step is to allow for player's to voluntarily fail saving throws against spells. Only then can Speedster Cat truly be speedy.

>>50492618
See >>50492506

>>50492555
I could, but im leaving some shit up to chance...idk why, for randomness.

>>50492568
That cant be right, id be multiplying 20 by 7, thats like 140lbs, ontop of the 150 base weight, thats 290lbs...which in hindsight isnt entirely unreasonable for a 6 and a half foot half orc.

Ok man, cheers for your help. Much appreciated.

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If I misty stepped from the melee of one group of enemies, and then dimension doored out of that group. Would any of them get an aoo on me?

aoo's are procted when you leave an enemies space. However, does misty step/DD as an instantaneous teleport trigger this?

inquiring minds need to know

>>50492583
Or I can give the goblin an aoo, and my players aoo's under reasonable conditions, taking this as a good example wherein RAW isn't as good as not-RAW.

>>50492611
I like arguing and this is fun for me - you do you senpai.

>>50492629
You didn't say anything to respond to - why would I respond?

>>50492624
I think it's kind of dumb that you can't in most situations. There are exceptions, but that sage advice entry was just a tad bit gay.

>>50492634
See >>50492629

>>50492633
Only if you're a 8 int wizard multiclass druid breeder with a diamond pickaxe.

>>50492565
Why wouldn't you ride zephyros's tower? It was fun

evil Air cultists showed up and we slaughtered them while Zephyros knocked himself retarded for a couple hours, got some pixie dust

then a silver dragon with a fucking Dorf strike force came to fuck up the tower but our drac sorc convinced the dragon we and zeph were cool, we all had tea and they left

then we hit level 5. We went to Goldenfields and it was a pretty good time, nothing we couldn't handle

Maybe it's just my GM but we had a blast first chapter. We stormed the town and fucking traumatized those poor gobbos who were just looting shit, then the Zents showed up and we gave the leader a PUA lesson so he could finally get over his oneitis with the "monk" girl, we made him look like a hero by having him "beat" my fighter in a duel, all the zhents were ooing and awing and the girl was super tsundere and shit, then he slipped us a bunch of fucking gems and shit as thanks

then a fucking army of orcs show up and we spend four hours doing a pretty hilarious siege defense that was like 4 vs 20 some orcs and managed to kill them all with some bullshit spells, then some elves showed up and were like "we are snooty elves we came here to kill the orcs what do you mean you lowly non-elves killed them all a bleh bleh bleh" then they fucked off

the cave thing with the villagers was a massive ordeal and that black ooze almost wiped us but it was fun too, we drowned an Ogre

>>50492642
See >>50492643

>>50492649

this

>>50492633
They would not normally get AoOs no.

>>50492506
See
>>50492629
See
>>50492643
See
>>50492652

>>50492633
You have to actually expend movement in getting out of something's melee range to provoke an AoO from them.

>>50492673
See>>50492673

>>50492633
Teleporting isn't capital-M system terminology "Movement." So no, they don't get aoos on you.

>>50492652

why not just link to the actual post you want to?

This weird switcheroo isn't helping anyone.

>>50492673
This is a real switcheroo.

>>50492633
verbatim from PHB

>You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the disengage action. You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport

>>50491901
>he wants players, who are universally retarded, to roll even more dice


no thank you

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>>50492633
>>50492670
>>50492678
>>50492685
>>50492694

True.

>>50492649
Double true.

>>50492642
Which sage advice entry is that one?

I can only find the twitter "rulings". http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/04/17/can-a-person-willingly-fail-a-saving-throw/

>>50492774
That one.

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>>50492779
What makes it gay?

>>50492815
Gay in the pejorative sense of being homosexually queer.
Ya know.
Being gay.

>>50491052

UA isn't exactly stronger, it's just more accessible. If you liked the style of the PHB ranger it works fine, but there's a lot of unspoken assumption in it that didn't really click with the playerbase.

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>>50492836
Ah. Gay.

My favorite thing about these threads are people showing up 2 hours late to respark an argumet.

>>50492565
Kill Zephyros and take his tower.

>>50492633
Can't cast two spells in one turn, champ

>>50492894
In most of the games I've played in and all those I've DM'd, we drop that rule.
It's not necessary.
Makes sorcerer slightly better doing that too, which is good because sorcerer needs love.

Anons? Long story short, I want to bulk up the sorcerer/warlock/wizard spell-lists (especially the first two) by adapting spells from 4e - yeah, yeah, shut it! It's the best source I've got for evocation spells that aren't yet another burst/blast/beam of fire.

Anyway, I could use some help figuring out how to handle the switch-over between levels, seeing as how 5e went back to 0-9 and 4e uses 0-29 with a number of "missing levels".

>>50492963
Just eyeball it. Damage isn't what gives a spell it's feel, the mechanical nuances are, and those can work at any level.

>>50492963
DMG pg 283

Any particular spells you want remade?

>>50491509

Nope. The XP budget is higher but a goblin awards the same XP regardless. Most clear in the basic DMG page 57:

"Adjust Encounter XP Value Based on the Number of Monsters. Based on the number of monsters in the encounter, multiply the encounter’s XP value by the matching multiplier from the Encounter XP Multipliers table. Thus, if you have an encounter with 4 monsters in it, multiply the total XP value of the encounter by 2 for the purposes of determining how difficult the encounter is. This doesn’t change the actual XP award the adventurers receive for overcoming the monsters, just your calculations of how difficult the encounter is"

>>50492886
I encouraged my players to fight him. But they didn't take the bait.

>>50492894
Technically you can bonus action misty step then use a cantrip.

But no one follows the cantrip only rule.

>>50493037
>But no one follows the cantrip only rule.
All of my groups do.

>>50493049
To what end?

>>50493064
Preventing double quicken metamagic fireballs, double heals on a turn with low-level slots, and other abuse of bonus action spells.

>>50493091
Those are fine though - they don't break the game at all.

Sorcerers in particular are the full caster most in need of a little boost.

>>50492997
Honestly? My current ambition is to do all of the ones I know of, at least those not restricted to paragon paths.

I mean... well, everybody knows how Dragon Sorcerers are gimped in 5e unless you want to stick to the Red/Gold Dragon theme; where's the harm in adapting Tempest Breath, Dragonfang Bolt, Dragonfrost, Acid Orb, Rimestorm or even Stormy Emotions?

...Although I will admit that last one desperately needs a rename, as fun as blasting foes for lightning + cold damage is.

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Want to use NOT Skaven in a potential future campaign

what CR do you think they should be?

>>50493118
between 3 and 6

>>50493118
What do you want to use them for? Low-tier threats? Viable challenges? It depends on if you're facing a lowly slave mook or a veteran assassin/wizard?

>>50493103
Any reason you can't just take a 5e spell and change its damage types? I haven't played 4e much, so I don't know what those spells do. >>50492989 is right in that you can pretty much port them over, and adjust the damage for balance.

Be careful about push and pull effects, they can be pretty powerful.

CR 0 - slaves. CR 1/8 - Clanrats. >>50493137 for Stormvermin and any higher ups other than spell casters.

>>50493103
>Stormy Emotions
Tempest Fury, Blizzard's Call, Gale Force.

>>50493118
>>50493150
Forgot to link

>>50493146
a mix. I've been playing Vermintide

>>50493118
Honestly I'd just use reskinned goblinoids.

>>50493194
The bonus action to hide really works well with the rat theme.

Hobgoblins for stormvermin. Just load up the poisons for theme.

>>50493150
Oh, sure, there's always the "Fireball but Thunder" and "Scorching Ray but Lightning" approach, but I find that a lot of the "newcomer" spells in 5e have thematics or mechanics that 5e lacks so far.

Let's face it, in 5e, we can't rip open a rift into the Astral Plane and let some horrible monster reach through to try and grab a victim you designate, now can we?

So yeah, I wants more spells, I likes 4e's spells, so I'm going to put nose to grindstone and make more spells.

>>50493153
Hmm, Tempest Fury looks better. Thanks.

>>50493224
For sorcerer/warlock lists in particular, check out the 4e Spellscarred powers, there's some stuff that might be worth poaching.

>>50493216
so what should be Rat Ogre? refluff a regular Ogre?

>>50493224
>Let's face it, in 5e, we can't rip open a rift into the Astral Plane and let some horrible monster reach through to try and grab a victim you designate, now can we?

Isn't that Arms of Hadar? Granted, I'm pretty sure that's from 4e, but I see what you mean.

I think the key thing to keep in mind is that some at-wills in 4e might need to be first level spells, as AoE is highly valued in it.

>>50493247
Give them some flesh golem powers, but ya.

You can basically grab whatever traits you want out of the Army books, and slap them on. DMG pg 280 for some examples of how they might shift CR.

>>50493238
I was actually unsure whether or not to touch Themes. They got some really good powers to them, but at the same time it feels... wrong... to just take them out.

>>50493255
Astral Claw, actually. Bit different; level 23 Wizard spell in 4e. And yeah, I know.

The problem I'm facing is that there's actually quite a bit of level skip. 5e goes 0-9. 4e goes:

0
1
2
3
5
6
7
9
10
13
15
16
17
19
22
23
25
27
29

Now, I'm pretty sure that anything 4e calls a 29th level spell should be a 9th level spell in 5e. Spells like Prismatic Storm (which is a 15ft burst of randomized damage & debuffs at a spot within 200 feet, if directly converted) are far too strong for anything less than that, yes?

If folks are interested, I might actually post the GDoc with my spell conversions in it when I've actually got something to show off.

>>50493322
Prismatic spray is a rainbow of randomized damage and debuffs, so it is mainly the strength of the damage and debuffs that is the problem for spell levels.

>>50493322
I didn't mean the theme, I meant the Spellscarred multiclass option. Full 1-29 list of powers.

>>50493322
Yeah, I think you could mostly divide level by 3 and get a rough estimate of what level of spell it should be. Just a matter of comparing it to existing spells of the same level.

Prismatic Storm, for example, might actually need to be a larger area, depending on what the debuffs are, in order to really be worth a 9th level slot.

>>50493322

Prismatic spray is similar, but a spray shape and 7th level. A 15ft (radius or diameter?) burst would probably be level 6 since it affects far fewer creatures than PS.

>>50493357
Not that guy, but consider that it's a ranged blast of damage like a fireball, I think it would at least be the same level. Having a smaller area is a fair tradeoff when you can postion that area more freely.

>>50493352
Well, in 4e, the colors/effects of Prismatic Stork were:

Base Damage - 5d8 + Charisma modifier on hit, 3d8 on miss.

Yellow - Radiant damage, target is Blinded, target takes -2 to all saving throws (save ends both).

Red - Fire Damage, target is knocked prone, target takes 15 ongoing Fire damage (save ends).

Green - Poison damage, target takes 20 ongoing Poison damage (save ends).

Turquoise - Lightning damage, target is knocked prone, slide target (Dexterity modifier squares), Target is Dazed (save ends).

Blue - Cold damage, target is Stunned (save ends).

Violet - Psychic damage, target suffers (Dex modifier) penalty to its AC and Reflex (save ends).

How do you guys handle random encounters in dungeons?
Do you just roll to see if theres an encounter every time the party enters an otherwise uninhabited room?
Do you have automatic encounters after a certain amount of time? How do you determine time?

Trying to figure out how I should handle it and I'm curious what others do

>>50493387
Damn misspelling... Prismatic *Storm*. Though, that reminds me; how should I handle Ongoing Damage in 5e? Is that mechanic still around?

>>50493387
Well, for comparison, Prismatic spray, level 7, does 10d6 for most of its damage effects, can petrify/transport people to another dimension on others, and has a chance to do two of those.

This is in a 60 foot cone as well, so a pretty wide area.

For comparison, I'd say that's a 5th or 6th level spell.

This is the sort of thing I mean. Rather than translating that Prismatic Storm directly, it may be better to make a scaled up version that uses the existing effects of Prismatic Spray, but makes a hurricane out of them that can be placed anywhere instead.

>>50493431
It isn't quite around in that fashion, at least not as cleanly worded. I think there are a few spells that last until the target makes a saving throw, and failing that there's things like Alchemist's fire that burn until the target makes a check to extinguish themselves.

>>50493383

Mmm that's true. If it's a 15ft diameter though I think 6th level is appropriate. 9 squares is a lot less than however fucking many a 60ft spray is.

>>50493101
>Those are fine though

Have you received brain damage recently

>two fireballs in one turn is ok

Ok anon

>>50493537
You haven't played the game enough.
You have to go back.

>>50490609
how viable is a dex 8 ranged ranger?

>>50493634
Not very.

>>50493634
Assuming you go beastmaster? Pretty well, though you're stuck using thrown weapons.

>>50493634
>>50493647
To clarify, Assuming you go UA Beastmaster.

>>50490778
>Get wish
>Wish for strength to be your casting ability
>GM lets you

>>50491384
>Group of six players can barely defeat 4 bandits and a dire doggo
I think the GM has to take it slowly.
My group could take out a kobold lair at level 1, with only 3 players.

>>50493434
I see. Would something like zapping all foes in 100 feet of you at casting for 10D6 of the appropriate damage type, plus an extra bit of nastiness depending on the color (anything from being knocked unconscious to being mind-whammied as per a Confusion spell) be more like a 9th level spell, in your eyes?

>>50491436
four bandits would be 100 xp, 1 wolf is 200 xp.
Divided by six, that's a meager 50 xp.
You need 300 to level up. If that was one of the hardest encounter's you've had, being level 1 is fair. Question, though, why are you running so few encounters? Can you not take short rests?

>>50491486
It's meant to be simple. Only a shit GM would throw 1 goblin at the players 20 times.

>>50493724
1 dire wolf is 200 xp


>>50491436
That is a hard encounter, encounter building wise.

>>50493537
It really is.

If Otiluke's Resilient Sphere can encase a Large creature or smaller, can it encase multiple Medium sized creatures?

Like, could a small group of characters encase themselves within the sphere?

>>50493695
How many of you are playing druids that fuck animals?

>>50493797
Only if they were connected and effectively one character. The only way for humanoids to do this is by engaging in coitus

>>50493764
I meant dire wolf, not wolf. You'll notice the XP reward matches.

>>50493568
>>50493791

Nigger I've got a Sorc to 11th level

16d6 damage to everything in a 20ft radius as early as level 5 is retarded.

Sorc sucks but the way to fix it isn't allowing retarded bullshit like that.

Does anyone here use 5e for the oldschool kind of gaming, with Dungeon delving and Monster slaying, not with any real planned story?

Talking of 4e conversions... one of the things I really liked in 4e was the Iron Soul Monk, a weapon-master in contrast to the cliche bare-fisted fighter. Do folks think I should consider homebrewing a subclass based on that, or would I be better off waiting until the week after next and seeing if a weapon-master/sword-sage monk is one of the new subclasses in the Monk UA?

>>50493843
5e is more for challengeless masturbatory fantasies set in a sjw desgned safe space.

Do not seek challenge, difficulty, or interesting combat in 5e. Abandon all passion ye who play this edition.

>>50493816
what manner of witchcraft summons the beast with two backs?

>>50493843
From time to time, usually one offs that involve kidnapping into Saw themed death traps.

>>50493892

You can always brew your own and see how it stacks up against the new monk UA stuff. You should be careful in how the weapon focus stuff works though if you're expanding it past the normal monk weapons.

>>50493896
and oh, great sage, where would I find this interesting combat?

Have you come to guide our people out of the forsaken lands of /5eg/?

>>50493892
Considering at least one of the monks is guaranteed to be some sort of undead hunter that specializes in necrotic damage, the odds are not good we'll get anything specifically like what you want.

>>50493724
You're missing my point. It's a fucking snorefest to be level 1 for so long, and the GM has totally failed at enabling us to have (fun)

He's an old Grognard and hates players succeeding in any way. His idea of fun is the party living in squalor while every NPC treats us like actual garbage and every npc also happens to be a sixteenth level spellcaster

He's the kind who makes some retardedly obtuse puzzle then almost wipes the party because we don't even know it's a fucking puzzle. Yes Greg we are so fucking dumb for not realizing that we needed to hit the solid brick wall with a heated bronze pipe in order to do damage to the shadow demon, he couldn't even explain why that made any sense in-game world, it was just supposed to be obvious to us? Is this a thing from past editions or something?

I'm dropping out of that campaign and according to three others they are too. There is sadistic GMs who make their players suffer because hurr durr D&D needs to be shitty because when I played it was shitty and then there's just stupid bullshit. Like a twenty foot deep river a mile outside of the capitol city being infested with fucking Merfolk (??) who can cast 3rd level spells

or rolling a nat 1 means that you accidentally shoot a fellow teammate who is thirty feet away from your target. Or taking a big hit means you need to make a save to not drop your fucking weapon/shield. Or having to use your bonus action to say something in combat

I will have ptsd from this campaign I swear

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>>50493896

>>50493918
I'm actually working on a pretty large homebrew to fix the fundamental issues. Or you could play 4e, burning wheel, or some other good RPG.

How could I implement the oldschool XP mechanic of Gold = XP? Would that break the system?

>>50493918
>and oh, great sage, where would I find this interesting combat?

I mean.... I think we all know where this is going... and I'm not sure I'm looking fourward to it....

>>50493915
Honestly, I'm kind of struggling to figure out waht to do with such a monk. Even if I stick to the sword-wielding "Kensai", I need new Ki Powers and I don't really have anything.

Okay, vague inklings of a class feature that lets a Small character use a Heavy weapon and a Medium one use a Heavy weapon one-handed, and maybe letting the Kensai gain access to the Dual-Weapon Fighting Style, but I'm pretty sure those are both overpowered.

>>50493919
Eh, I don't know about that, we already have the Ninja and the Long Death Monk, both of whom already cover the "shadow magic monk" archetype pretty well between them.

>>50493934
>>50493947

Looks like someone saw 4e coming.

>>50493946
It would not break the system. Just keep the quests coming, and the players would be happy. Watch out for the thief trying to get ahead, and any Transmutation or Forge Cleric shenanigans.

>>50493924
I'm sorry to hear that, and can't fathom why you would continue playing for so long. Good luck getting back on the PnP horse.

>>50493974
Was it really hard to see 4e coming? It's pretty widely accepted that 4e combat >>>>>>>>>>>>> 5e combat.

>>50493974
>Watch out for the thief trying to get ahead, and any Transmutation or Forge Cleric shenanigans.

It's going to be shared among the party, like party funds, and it's earned gold, not made.

>>50493970

Yea that's fair. I think the easiest way to handle it is, like the kensai, to make them weapon masters of a particular weapon. This could be a single weapon (which kind of goes against 5Es philosophy, but is fluffy at least) or go with a bladelock weapon pact sort of thing for a small class of weapons.

One way to go might be redesigning martial arts for them - instead of focusing on using their bonus action for a martial arts hit they get a different suite of bonus actions to use.

>>50493981
Like any great evil, it sinks in slowly. An odd rule here, well every GM has their quirks. A questionable call there, well he's the GM, it's his call I guess

>>50493988
Shit took hours to set up. Hours to play. It was like a worse 3.5.

5e, for its faults, at least has fights that go fast. Which gives enough time for the real game to be played. Which god is best and why is it Jesus?

>>50493997
>Forge cleric of ayn rand spends his downtime purifying ore with prayers to st. Rearden.
>Commie DM forces him to share his earned money with the group.
>Forge cleric says piss off, leads players on a strike.
>Campaign becomes forced slice of life, with players only ever attempting to roleplay a peasants life, and responding to threats by dying and remaking peasant characters.

>>50494022
4e takes forever to play if you have shit players. Same for 5e. Shit players will agonize over the dumbest shit no matter how simple the system is.

>>50493988
>>50494022
I have the 4e PHB2, somehow, honestly not sure why I have it as I've never played anything but 5e

I'm looking through shit and there is just a lot of stuff. per-encounter powers, dailies, all this shit

I can see why 5e got popular

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>>50494028
>and responding to threats by dying and remaking peasant characters.

laughed out loud

>>50494022

I still can't comprehend why fucking feather fall was a daily power.

>>50494052
What? Per encounter powers? Dailies? That sounds horrible.

Anyway, I've got this great idea for a character, Fighter 3 for Battlemaster and then the rest in Barbarian for Rages.

>>50494052
It runs pretty fast. Everyone is a running on a vancian system, so if you've played a wizard in 5e, you can play a 4e character.

>>50493843
yeah, I did so a little bit ago. You have to be careful monsters are strong in this version, they will murder your friends.


But just have fun and make a cool dungeon, you need to write and design how to use the wealth you give them. And the magic items should be personal or alternatively completely random so they are forced to make due with fun unique experiences.

>>50494028
That shit won't fly at my table. If you're not here to co-operate and play the game, you can leave.

Plus, UA content is on a case by case basis. Might not use Forge Cleric.

>>50494022
>Shit took hours to set up.

It takes the same time as 5e, if you are using a grid either way.

>Hours to play.

Sure, for beginner groups.

>It was like a worse 3.5.

No, that's PF... actually, are you sure you aren't mixing up 4e with PF?

>5e, for its faults, at least has fights that go fast

At low levels. At mid-higher levels, it's a slog. And not even an exciting slog.

>>50494087
In this scenario, the players are cooperating against you, the looter DM, by willfully withdrawing the motor of adventure.

>>50494070
Neither fighter or barbarian have per encounters so I'm not sure what you're going on there

actually do any class have per-encounters? everything goes off short rests or long rests

>>50494072
class tables that cleanly laid everything out would make stuff much easier to read. Maybe it's just the formatting of this phb2 but it comes off pretty scattered

Would an adventurer be able to have a non aggressive relationship with a beholder without having to be under its control?

>>50494100
>actually do any class have per-encounters? everything goes off short rests or long rests

...

You do understand 4e encounter powers are regained after a short rest, right? And dailies after a long rest?

>>50494094
Exactly. Then no game is being run and they can leave.

>>50494100
>actually do any class have per-encounters? everything goes off short rests or long rests

So does everything in 4e. A 4e Fighter still needs to take a short rest to recharge their encounter powers, just like how a 5e Fighter needs to do it to get back their superiority dice.

The only difference is short rests in 4e are 5 minutes, so the assumption is that you'll have your abilities refreshed every encounter, rather than every 2 or 3.