/btg/ Battletech General

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>stylish bugs
Plogcust is stylish.

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Derp Locust is derp.

>>50457279
That's a Koto anon. It started as a Locust, but it isn't now.

>>50457327
Never seen it as such; always saw the art on Sarna and/or the Japanese Locust art as the Koto.

>>50457364
Plog was initially tapped to redo the Solaris and IIC designs in 3055U, until they went with Chris Lewis. God knows why.

>>50457381
I suppose that laser under the chin is a bit large for a MLas.

So in the personnel market, under available options there are five choices for market types.

Anyone have a clue what the differences are? Should I use the basic ATB? I think a long time ago I used dylan's method but I can't recall the reason.

>>50457460
Dylan's method actually generates personnel every month, rather than spitting out one or two guys every six months and asking what the problem is.

>>50457488
Thanks, that's useful to know.

Also for unit rating, should I use campaign ops or FM mercenaries revised? I believe I used Int Ops before but that option is gone.

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>>50457230
Cockpit view of a Wasp.

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/m/ fag here

What is the nuclear Schiltron?

>>50457732
A tank that mounts nukes, basically. The Schiltron is a tank that can mount the Arrow IV artillery launcher. AIV has an alternate ammo that is a Davy Crockett nuclear payload. Put 2 and 2 together and you get the nuclear Schiltron.

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>>50457732
Take anything with Arrow IV and load it with Davey Crockett warheads.

>Arrow IV infantry face when

>>50457732
>>50457782
It is the bringer of Blake's Light to the tube born clanner degenerates.

Seriously, there is a screencap of a megamek game of a nuke schiltron wasting hordes of Turkina Zs.

>>50457552
Personally I'd use CampaignOps, since it's a little more forgiving.

>>50457834
I was in that thread, I remember it well. You forgot it also wasted an Orca in the same engagement.

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Battle Wasp Bump

>>50457791
But anon, Arrow IV infantry with Davy Crocketts make PERFECT sense, because the name came from the real world system used to give infantry nuclear weapons.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=570

>>50459177

That can't be real. Whichever writer came up with that sort of idiocy should be ashamed. No real faction would ever develop a weapon like that, and to assign it to a faction is the worst example of torpedoing a faction through raw fiat I've ever seen. It's utter bullshit.

>>50459216
Yep, reality keeps giving us wacky shit beyond the wildest dreams of factionfaggotry.

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>>50459216
If something exists the American military will find a way to nuke it.

Even if its their own men.

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>>50459177

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>>50459279
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_TV-8

I don't understand why these never went into full production.
What culd have possibly gone wrong?

I need pictures of mechs moving at SANIC speeds

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>>50459628

>>50459643
that's not a mech, although I admit it's moving so fast it's hard to tell.

Anyone have Aerotech 2 revised edition? Can't find it in the links.

>>50459679
Goddamn 4chan ate my post. It was supposed to be accompanied by
>Ice Hellion detected

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>>50457230
>Stylish Bugs

My $0.02.

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>>50459628

>>50461148
>Them ear missiles.

That looks a lot closer to the Tomahawk.

>>50461415
>missiles
Anon, those are beer cans.

>>50461425
Ear beer cans, then.

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I can do one with different text for the Spirit Cats on request. This was fun to do; I shooped the rock face from scratch. Learning new tricks every time.

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>>50457230
I tried to find where this came from in case there were other stylish bugs to be had and I guess I used the wrong search engine. The last pic it suggested made me laugh.

>>50461826
Did you draw that? If so, pretty darn good.

>>50461898
I wish someone had just the lineart; I don't care for the coloring on it.

>>50461903
Nah, I just shooped it. The artist's name is Dan Dos Santos if you're interested.

>>50461937
>Nah, I just shooped it. The artist's name is Dan Dos Santos if you're interested.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the heads up.
>I wish someone had just the lineart; I don't care for the coloring on it.
I just want to see more. That's a pretty neat take on the old Stinger. Makes it look almost bad ass.

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>>50461937
>>50461976
My google-fu comes in handy.

>>50461992
http://giorgioespinos.deviantart.com/

>>50461992
It only gets worse without color. Itty bitty head, exposed joints, massive weapons... Oh and Batman's face just under the cockpit glass.

>>50462015
>http://giorgioespinos.deviantart.com/
I actually like a lot of his stuff. Prefer the lineart though; he's not the best colorist.

>>50462032
I don't know. I like the upper torso area to be sure. The laser seems about decent compared the old Macross art the mech came from. It's not perfect, but it's got some points to it.

>>50462160
The laser is just a big dildo with a lens though. Sure it's being carried, but at the end of the day, it feels off. Plus the torso seems too small to have the pilot, engine and gyro.

>>50462180
Not the only 'Mech to suffer from that issue.

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>>50462180
>Plus the torso seems too small to have the pilot, engine and gyro.
Comparing it to the aircract-turned-mech of the old Valkyries, I don't know what the best proportion for a 20 ton bug would be.

>>50461826
>reading down, then across

what the fuck is this buggery?

>>50457834
that was a good thread

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>>50462413
They're close proportions I guess.

>>50461826

>Know exactly what book cover that was taken off of

This makes me laugh.

>>50462032
It's probably his weakest one, yes. His Hussar and Kintaro are pretty sweet and his Urbanmech is kind of cute, but I think it got a lot of magic internal space.

>>50462576
I can change the text if you prefer. How would you rather have it? I was also considering staring lower left and having the text diagonally ascend, indexed to the left, maybe indented slightly for each subsequent line.

>>50462823
The perils of plucking images from the net based on their looks, not their source, I suppose. No clue where it comes from; I was looking for a "tribal"-looking hot chick in modern clothes and found that.

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>>50463069
>>50462576
Maybe you'll prefer this version. I think I like it better anyway.

>>50457637
>DFA

More like a totally sick Dropkick

>>50462032
>It only gets worse without color.

Honestly, this applies to most BT designs in general. All the lines and panels and shit makes them busy as hell in B&W art, and tends to look better in color art or in miniature form.

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>>50461898
Hah. Kind of reminds me of my mishaps of googling "CBT" when it was the common acronym used for "Classic Battletech"

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>>50463968
S-senpai...

First time faring into Clan
I want to make a single squad (a Star, right, could I do a lance too?)
So far I'm liking the Jade Falcons
I tend to favor the Vulture, Summoner, Masakari, and most of the Unseen IIC
What would you suggest as a mech selection?

>>50464648
If you like the Falcons, safe bets are the Summoner, Hellbringer, and Kit Fox. Also consider the Turkina, Night Gyr, Fire Falcon, and Black Lanner.

If you need a quick reference regarding what they bring, if you have Total Warfare, check out the Random tables in the "Creating Scenarios" section. They at least offer some guidelines about what you might see there.

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>>50464597
Plog has definitely gotten better about it. 3055U is kind of messy though because he added camo patterns and such as pure linework, which just turns into more mess. His 3085 stuff using tones for the camo works a lot better.

Another issue a lot of BT artists suffer from in B&W is lack of varying line weights, making the panel lines and such be thinner and lighter than the major structural bits would help in making things more readable. I think White is probably one of the better of contemporary BT artists in that regard though his tendency to add shading also helps separate the features as well, Evans being the worst with thick lines for every goddamn feature.

>>50457834
Praise Blake, m8!

>>50461826
>CNC LOA AVT NA
What does it mean?!

>>50464577
>That MechCommander intro cutscene

The black guy ejects first, but at least he did not die first.

>>50465341
Shitty meme.

>>50465044
Should go on a vision quest to find out for us anon.

>>50463130
Much better, pinup anon.

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>>50465527
If I don't return, tell my bondsman "hello"

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>>50465556
We have faith in your success.


>>50459535
That thing looks so derpy that it swings around to the realm of adorable. If the turret armor was angled rather than rounded, I'd say it would look like it belonged in BT for sure.

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>>50461415
I was about to say:
The Destdroid Tomahawk and Battletech Warhammer are the same model

But no, you're totally right, the Warhammer keeps the torso Missile launchers of the Tomahawk closed, and doesn't have a weapon in that location, so that image displays a characteristic of one and not the other, good catch

>>50465928
Amusingly enough an image of the Wahmmy/Tomahawk with a torso launcher open does appear in one the old books I think the old Rules of Warfare.

But the only Warhammer with torso missiles like that is the Warhammer IIC 2, and it's basically the Japanese equivalent of the Shimmyseen, close but far enough to be legally unproblematic, and the art jsut represents the base config (or OG Whammy in Japan) anyway.

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>>50466394
It's in the first Aerotech set. I made a Warhammer using clan tech a long time ago that mimics the image and it's kind of neat.

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>>50466622
Actually not the one I was thinking of, this is. So that's at least two instances. Also brings up the more overt case of the Ostroc, which has the dual launchers of the missile Regult and in what appear to be its arms even in the TRO art, but the stats have just one in the torso.

>>50466777
Good catch. I forgot about that one, but have seen it before.

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Battledroids came with little glossy paper strips you were supposed to cut out and glue or tape to cardboard to make standups to play with the original Unseen mechs. The ones from Macross used Yoshiyuki Takani's original artwork - although this particular view of the Tomahawk does't show the missile bays open.

>>50466622
>>50466777
>>50466884
Am I the only one that likes the old flip-top missile launchers seen on the Tomahawk / Warhammer, Longbow and Archer?
I always thought there was something neat and dramatic to have a mech open up and then release hell. Really cinematic.

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>>50466904
>Am I the only one that likes the old flip-top missile launchers seen on the Tomahawk / Warhammer, Longbow and Archer?

No. At the very least, Jim Holloway and I are both squarely in your corner.

>>50466985
Cool. I guess I have to add the old Crusader in this as well, as the shoulder missile launchers flip up, and I guess from the Armored Valkyrie model it came from the leg boxes open up for the missiles there.

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>>50467023
Some of the BT originals got in on that game too, the Whitworth, Centurion, Vindicator, Dervish, and Catapult all had hatches for their torso missiles in their 3025 art. Of course, some of them are small things and not all that impressive. The Whitworth's are particularly diminutive, both hatches and launcher.

>>50467113
Now, now, it's not the size of the launcher but the motion of the missiles.

>>50467113
TINY
WHIT
LAUNCHERS

Reminder that we have a booru with a shit ton of images to tag.
I've been working on it but I am but one anon with precious little free time
http://bgb.booru.org/index.php

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>>50467023
>I guess I have to add the old Crusader in this as well

Yes, you absolutely do!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've been looking at Clan secondline mechs and have deduced three types: the Star League holdovers, IIC redevelopments of SL mechs, and Clan original battlemechs.

Is there any indication if one type is superior technically, or culturally considered more honorable, to pilot?
And are the SL-era originals upgraded with Clantech or left as factory made?

>>50459762
Huh, I don't have it either. Didn't know that.

>>50467113
Considering the ammo counts in mechs, those are the only actually realistic launchers to be seen in BT art.

>>50467750
Usually the real problem is that they can't transfer ammo into their weapons.

>>50468092
Davion gets pretty much everything because they're rich as fuck

>>50468092
Comstar: Star League mechs for lyfe

>>50468092
Republic of the Sphere

>>50468092

Given your choice of picture, probably the Capellans, given how firmly they're attached to the writers' cocks.

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>>50468309
I meant to use this picture/

Should I use A Time of War or Classic Battletech for my stompy shooty needs? And any advice should I want to do that? Should everyone be in a Mech, or what?

>>50468416

If you're new to the game, get the BattleTech Master Rules for the boardgame.

If you mean for the RPG, MechWarrior Second Edition is the easiest to get to grips with. ATOW is terribly laid out and needless complex. MW3e (same as CBT RPG) doesn't mesh well with BT due to it using D10s.

>>50468536
On a related note, can I get a pro/con breakdown of the RPG systems attached to Battletech?

>>50468536
>MW3e (same as CBT RPG) doesn't mesh well with BT due to it using D10s.

This is such an idiotic argument. Like it's that hard to read the two-paragraphs on converting MW3e characters to work in a tabletop game of BT. Or - and bear with me here - you could just play battletech using normal rules, but instead of piloting and gunnery checks, you could pick up the 2d10 you have lying next to the gameboard INSTEAD of 2d6 and roll THOSE instead! My god, it's like discovering a whole new field of science!

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>>50467218
It's better when it's animooted.
Also...
https://youtu.be/hLi7ULuqDkQ?t=81
Those missile launchers, man.

What are the most common vehicles employed by the DC during the war of 3039?

>>50467176
Nice.

>>50468667

MW1e: Very simple system, very *very* easy to min-max. It's made explicitly to form a basic framework for playing your MechWarriors when they're out of their Mechs. It's not meant to be used to play anything besides MechWarriors. Quite dated, but if you enjoy 80's feel in rulesets, it's workable. Requires a ton of universe knowledge on the part of the GM, since it doesn't really supply any of that.

MW2e: Essentially the same as MW1e, insofar as it's supposed to be used for playing MechWarriors and only MechWarriors. I really consider it a refinement on MW1e. It's not a bad system at all...just very dated.

MW3e: Somewhat maligned for the "lifepath" system which can generate unplayable characters (people tend to forget that they can reroll or affect their lifepath rolls using Edge), MW3e is a complete universe system. That is, you can play basically any character type in the Inner Sphere with this system. It's much more complex than MW1 or 2 (buying skills on a starting PC is stupidly done), especially when it comes to combat rules, but as a consequence it's somewhat harder to create a completely broken character (it's very hard to just pump your Mech Piloting and Gunnery skills, since there's lots of different Gunnery skills for Mechs now). Probably the best "stand-alone" RPG the game line has had. MW3e *also* has the benefit of synergizing with the only GOOD Merc Unit Creation Rules (out of FM:Mercs[r]) thus far published. If you can't tell, this is by far my preferred MW system.

>If you'd like I can go through a character creation example in MW3 for you

>cont

>>50468667
>>50468934
>cont


ATOW: More complex than MW3 for no good reason (buying skills on a starting PC is *just* as stupid as MW3e), and easier to min-max to boot since character creation is point-based. Someone who is a noble will always be less capable than someone who is not, since they had to spend points on being a noble. Someone who is a noble Mechwarrior (ie, the core concept of the setting) is always going to be slower, dumber, and uglier than someone who is just an ordinary schmuck, because the noble had to spend 25% of his starting character points on having a Mech and being a noble. It goes back to a 2d6 system, which in theory makes it easier to integrate with the BT tabletop, but in practice it's not really an improvement. It DOES have Special Pilot Abilities for combat characters, and I HIGHLY suggest you use these regardless of the system you actually use (re-costing a few of them - Jumping Jack - is recommended). The personal-scale armor system can drive good men mad. It also technically integrates with the current unit creation rules (in the Campaign Companion)...but those rules are so terrible that this isn't a benefit, really. Don't get me wrong, with enough effort and sheer bloody-mindedness you can get this system to work and play smoothly. But I don't feel it's worth that effort when MW3e already exists and does pretty much everything better except for using 2d10 instead of 2d6 in Mech-scale combat.

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>>50468765
>Those missile launchers, man.

What I *really* wanted was the lineart I'd seen in the old Rifts Robotech books (simply reprinted from some Macross technical sheets, I'm sure) that shows how the missiles load into the ablative armour on the Valkyrie, but the only version I could find that was exactly what I wanted was on a domain that is long since gone; a tiny thumbnail is all that remains in the search engines' caches.

>>50468934
>GOOD Merc Unit Creation Rules (out of FM:Mercs[r]) thus far published
I would disagree slightly. The rules from the original merc handbook and 3055 aren't BAD, they're just a bit boring.
FMM(r)'s rules are certainly better, though

>>50468813

Vedettes. They dwarf the numbers of everything else everyone has. Following that the Scorpion, Scimitar, Saracen, and Saladin.

>>50468667

MW1e is ridiculously out of date.

MW2's skill and attribute system is one of the best I've seen mechanically outside of the World of Darkness. It gets a little clunkier in combat due to the wound system but otherwise is very solid.

MW3e/CBTRPG's big plus point is that the Lifepath system comes up with your character's backstory as you generate them. On the down side, it can also turn the brash MechWarrior you were planning to play into an introverted quadraplegic because random rolls are random. It also arbitrarily fucks Clan characters over and makes them worse than IS ones due to the higher attribute minimums and character flaws you get saddled with, leaving you less points to design a competent character even assuming you don't wash out of training or get crippled during the lifepaths.

AToW is just a shitshow. Character creation is overly complicated and nothing is laid out in ways that would make sense.

>>50468698

Or they could have just stuck with the 2D6 system of MW2e and just cleaned things up, like giving weapons the types of damage coding Shadowrun was using at the time, balanced to work on a 2D6 MoS curve which was really all the game needed as an incremental improvement.

The RPG is necessarily an afterthought to the board game, it may as well mesh as seemlessly as possible given that.

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>>50468992
Well, I happen to have that book handy, so here's a higher-res picture. I can't guarantee it being very good, but here it is

>>50469057
>It also arbitrarily fucks Clan characters over and makes them worse than IS ones

Feature, not a bug.

>>50469094

This is certainly the expressed opinion of the writers, it just annoys me since the fluff is all about how Clan characters are better at what they focus on at the expense of everything else.

Whereas everything after MW2 makes them worse at what they focus on than a comparable IS character (barring advantages like an Elemental being able to resist more damage in combat than an IS character if they really want to sink those points in) and still sucking at everything else.

>>50469007

OK, that's fair. My main point was to differentiate them from the only other ruleset people are likely to come across: Campaign Companion.

Also, I remember the original merc handbook version being totally non-functional for some reason. Although the 3055 version isn't bad either, it does tend to produce skew forces fairly readily.

>>50469057
> It also arbitrarily fucks Clan characters over and makes them worse than IS ones due to the higher attribute minimums and character flaws you get saddled with

Word of Herb was that MW3 wasn't intended to play with a mix of Clan and IS characters in the same party. If you're all IS, that doesn't matter, and if you're all Clan, then it still doesn't matter because your *relative* abilities inside the party are still essentially identical. The comment about it being a "feature, not a bug" is pithy, but it's basically accurate.

>because random rolls are random

Except that everyone gets up to 8 rerolls throughout character creation. If you can't avoid being an introverted quadraplegic with 8 rerolls available on a reasonable maximum of 6 actual rolls (Stage 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4), then you deserve it.

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>>50468992
>>50469067

Here, this ought to let you replicate a Macross scene.

For up to ten seconds, using all at once.

Mind the heat.

>>50469175

>Word of Herb was that MW3 wasn't intended to play with a mix of Clan and IS characters in the same party.

Yeah, but fucking Clan characters over to the extent they did only makes any kind of sense if the intent was to allow for both to start on an even playing field. At least there would have been a reason for it then even if the execution wound up being woefully lacking.

>Except that everyone gets up to 8 rerolls throughout character creation.

I know, but you still have to spend Edge to do that which can cause complications later. You can also generate a result that is strictly worse than the one you're trying to avoid.

Back then we just houseruled it to being able to spend a point of Edge before or after rolling to select the result you want, except for the "roll X times and apply all results" ones.

It reminded me of old-school DnD, and not in a good way. Your stats might well bear no relation at all to what class you want to play, and the Wizard might be brawnier and better in a brawl than the Monk.

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>>50469175
>MW3 wasn't intended a mix of Clan and IS characters in the same party

TPTB really didn't like Star Lord, it seems.

>>50469175
So which would you say is better, using the MW3E core rules with ATOW's fluff additions, or just running a hybrid of 3E and ATOW with mods made as needed?
I've run 5e DND campaigns before, but 5e is designed to be malleable, which I'm thinking ATOW isn't.

>>50469200
>RL10 spam
My nigga. Honestly being able to pump out 6 RL10 shots a turn with no heat concerns whatsoever is a catastrophic amount of potential damage. You can't do it for long, but you sure as hell can do it proppa.

>>50469292
>It reminded me of old-school DnD, and not in a good way.

It should. It's a different style of gaming. Most people think of character creation as "pick what you want to play and generate your character to maximize what you want to play."

The old-school way of character generation was, "decide you want to play the game and start rolling dice. That action is when the game actually starts: you play what the dice give you."

Totally different mindset involved, with much less player agency prior to the game. It's not everyone cup of tea, and I sympathize with those who don't like it. But since most of the BT players grew up playing the old D&D games (where this was the norm) anyway, they're just pandering to their target market.

>Remember, you aren't actually *spending* Edge to get rerolls; you're just lowing your Edge Threshold. All that means is that if you lower your Threshold to, say, 4, buying your 5th point of Edge will cost more points than points 1-4 each did. It's not a complete ban on buying more than 4 points of Edge, which seems to be a common misreading.

>>50469389
>Most people think of character creation as "pick what you want to play and generate your character to maximize what you want to play."

I wonder how they'd feel if they met the old school Traveller where you could actually die during character generation.

>>50469476
How does that work?
It sounds like it would be hysterical the first time but annoying past that.

>>50469524
There are random events that are things like "You're blown out an airlock on your tour" or "Space weasels tear off your legs, so you're crippled." I enjoy it, simply because you're never going to choose how your life goes, so an oddball party works out.

>>50469524
In Traveller, you created your character using the life path method. Basically, your character entered a career with the military/civil service/what have you, and each "term" (a few years of service) gave you different skills. The more terms you served, the older you were and the more (and better) skills you had, but especially with the military terms you had to roll for survival. This represented the fact that as a career military type you'd be, well, sent to fight and had a chance of dying in battle. And when you took more combat or action-filled terms, the more times you had to roll for survival...

>>50469476

It could happen in 1e L5R too.

>>50469524

In some games that use lifepaths as part of chargen, there is a chance of death or injury at certain stages. The classic is Traveler (in the original version -- I don't know if it's like this in T20). In Traveler character generation, the proto-PC starts at age ~18 and enters a service (e.g. the Marines or the Navy) for a series of four-year terms; for each term, there are rolls for things like what skills the character can pick up, what kind of missions they were on, what medals they won, and whether they survived. Eventually the character either dies, is discharged or reaches retirement age. Discharged and retired characters become PCs, and then the game begins.

It's actually very similar to MW3e. At a minimum, MW3e takes you through childhood (1 roll), middle school (1 roll), trade school/college (1 roll), and a 3-4 year stretch of being an adult (1 roll). Under some circumstances, you can go back to college or make more adult rolls, but the maximum number of rolls you should be getting in the system is ~6. The big difference, of course, is that MW3e doesn't let you actually die. The really serious negative events are there for storytelling (if you weren't lucky - ie, spent Edge - here what would have happened) or to be used for characters who aren't intended to be combat PCs. Playing a journalist or an asTech in MW3e is completely possible, and being blind in one eye or short a hand or something doesn't *necessarily* torpedo those kinds of characters. It's just the fact that most people create MechWarriors with the system that gets people upset (plus not knowing the rules for avoiding those circumstances).

>>50469350

I built it for the weekly customs game back in high school. We used to play Grand Melee-style games, and I just skulked around doing nothing until there was only one other guy left. He had a mostly untouched Savage Coyote which had been rolling hot for PPC head hits, and I made it to Medium range walking against his stationary.

Then I fired everything on 7s and did over 400 points of damage.

I was laughing but nobody else was.

Not long after that we started playing canon only, even though I never bought it out again.

>>50468667
MW1e, despite being shortest and focused primarily on MechWarriors, is in truth the most complete. It tells you how much time and money it takes to travel space, how likely a planet is to detect your approach, other random stuff, and has a good amount of detail about how to spend a few months in a 'Mech company. Although a little out of date, it also gives you the best broadstrokes overview for how the setting at large works (due in no small part to its concise writing and varied topics).

MW2e has a little less support for generating events for your players, and character creation is much easier to min-max. Personal combat is pretty similar. Some of the "how the setting works" info is dropped in favor of recent historical events.

MW3e has twice as many base stats as the earlier editions, and fragments skills into lots of subskills - but *removes* any and all practical guidelines for what to actually *do* with those skills or what modifiers to apply. The life path system is kind of interesting, though I remember it being difficult to start out with a regular or veteran character. All "a month in the life of a 'Mech company" stuff is also now gone forever. (Mech company generation has been shunted off to other books and made more complex.) Personal combat adds an extra and unnecessary step in resolving damage, but I don't otherwise know how it compares to other editions.

I haven't played, read or owned A Time of War. It trims the number of stats slightly from MW3e, but characters still seem to have two to four times as many skills as characters in MW1e or MW2e. Like MW3e it doesn't actually support any skill use except for personal combat, and without exception every person I've seen advocate for AToW over other editions has been focused on the combat system. (I haven't played it so I couldn't tell you why that might be.)

>cont'd

>>50469687
>cont'd
People will tell you that character generation is complicated in AToW, but that's not true; it's actually pretty simple. What they *mean* is that it's pointlessly and egregiously cumbersome. The problems NEA cited with traits like nobility, vehicular ownership, and so on, are true, but seem to hold true (more or less) for MW3e as well.

The other complaint everyone has when they first play AToW is how the basic rolling mechanic works: everywhere else in the BattleTech franchise, you roll 2d6 against a target number and apply modifers to the target number; but in A Time of War, you roll 2d6 against a target number and apply modifiers to the ROLL instead. (It's a little silly to complain about since it's so simple to change back.)

>>50468934
>Requires a ton of universe knowledge on the part of the GM, since it doesn't really supply any of that.
I disagree. The other books supply a gods-eye-view of recent events, which in actual play becomes almost invisible and irrelevant; what MW1e supplies is all the practical info a GM would actually need to make the setting work from a worms-eye-view.

>>50469007
Did FMM(r) go back to point-buy? I'd prefer the one with random tables, I think.

>>50469345
I'd say run a hybrid of MW2e and MW3e, chuck anything that looks annoying; the GM should read MW1 cover to cover to get the basics of the universe down (just realize the history has been shuffled a little, and that the number of "settled worlds" counts only the Ducal seats, not total number of colonies), and skim through the back half of AToW for the modern events and sociopolitics.

>>50464764
Too bad David charges hundreds of dollars per piece

>>50469687
>but *removes* any and all practical guidelines for what to actually *do* with those skills or what modifiers to apply
Mea culpa, was thinking of A Time of War.

Still though, i don't think MW3e *adds* any guidelines beyond what previous editions had, and it for sure removes at least some of them.

>>50470297
>Did FMM(r) go back to point-buy?
No, it was the one with basically unit lifepaths, which I quite like as well. Mercenaries Supplimental I added an optional point buy system, but I can't remember anyone ever actually using it.
Campaign Operations, the newest one, uses a dumpster fire of a ""point buy"" system that amounts to basically the 3055 system, but much worse

>>50469067
Palladium's Macross RPG?

What's your favorite Com Guard mech?

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>>50469200
Itano would be proud.

>>50470558
Clanbuster King Crab, hands down.

If you mean uniquely ComGuard design, uh, probably the Exterminator-6CS (the Exterminator is basically a CG exclusive).

>>50470558
Raijin

>>50470542
Palladium, yes. But Robotech, not macross. It's actually pretty impressive how they managed to weld the total mess that was robotech into a coherent setting

>>50470558

That they built and developed themselves?

Pickings are slim and the Grim Reaper is the pick of that bunch. The Raijin has potential but that fucking one-shot Streak SRM Launcher pisses me off so bad, they could have given it a pair of normal SRM-4s instead. The Nexus is just cannon fodder and the Tessen spends too much mass on that iNARC launcher for mine. The Helios starts with potential and then shits the bed.

That's the stock models, any way.

The Raijin upgrade fixes my problems with it though.

In terms of stuff they had access to? I'm a big fan of the Shootist even if its performance isn't all that great. I just like the simplicity.

If you were to put together a list of 'bug mechs for an alternate RAT, what would /btg/ include?

>>50471051
What exactly are you asking for? The bugs are Wasp, Stinger, and Locust. I'd include those on any RAT because they're the bugs and they rock.

>>50471051
The bugs are the nickname for the Locust/Stinger/Wasp trio. Even the Cicada which is named after the Locust is not an actual bug.

So all you would have are variants of those three.

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>>50470693
>>50470805
How about a design challenge?

Design a Clanbuster variant of a 'Mech ComStar would have available to it on the eve of Tukayyid.

Optional challenge: design a Mark Two of the same 'Mech upgraded for 3067.

Bonus points for fluff.

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>>50471158
EXCELSIOR!

>>50471574
>only two tons of armor
I like the idea of a 10/15 ERPPC harassment machine, but that's cutting it faaar too close

>>50471664
Base Hussar only has 1.5 tons, and standard at that, so... it's actually an improvement.

>>50471709
That's true, but I'd still dump some of the electronics for more armor

>>50471574
What about something they didn't already make a Clanbuster for?

>>50471734
Tried to keep the spirit of the era and how they were outfitting things, especially the concerns over Elementals. Anyway, could easily strip the BAP for an extra ton and a half of armor.

>>50471757
Ha! I didn't even look. The irony is I was thinking about doing basically what they did with it, now that I'm reading it.

Oh well, derp.

>>50471158
I kinda want to do clanbuster variants of some of the more common mechs, like the crusader, since it was was a super-common SLDF machine

>>50471932
Well if the SLDF had it, then ComStar can have it, for the most part. So go nuts?

What about a Clanbuster Highlander or Banshee?

>>50472347
Banshee would be most likely, though neither is probable since both have dozens of variants that cover basically anything a Clanbuster would have done.

>>50472438
Maybe a dualgausszilla of either?

What exactly qualifies a mech as a clanbuster?

>>50472558
1. Is it ComGuard? If yes, question 2.
2. Does it Bust Clans? If yes, Clanbuster.

>>50472518
Dual Gauss Banshee in place of the PPC/AC, *maybe*. Highlander wouldn't carry double gausses. Clanbusters generally preserve the style of the mech (ex. King Crab has two ACs, upgrades to 2 GRs in same locations, etc).

A Banshee with a GR and an ER PPC alongside some small lasers might be a solid clanbuster (XL and Endo, obv). I don't have SSW working atm or I'd make it.

Incidentally, which is the better name for a battletech shitposting page:
1: Grayson Carlyle's Lostech meme cache
2: Duncan Fischer's Guaranteed Genuine Meme Emporium
Or give me a better idea if you have one

>>50472558
Upgrades of dubious quality, like the Hussar 400-D, Wyvern -9N, Champion -3N, Black Knight 9-KNT and the King Crab -001.

Armor is tertiary at best.

>>50472648
>Champion upgrade
>dubious
Mister Garibaldi...

>>50472676
To be fair the Champion is already somewhat dubious

>>50472558
Ok, serious answer. Basically, the Clanbusters were a series of five upgrades (listed here: >>50472648) that were advanced technology field refits, mostly using 300 XL engines. The idea was to create some advanced tech mechs that could be upgraded from ComStar stocks very quickly to meet the Clan threat. They, on average, balance out to being ok. Definitely not actually able to Bust Clans, but they put up a real fight and are leagues better than wide-spread IS tech at the time. They definitely were a contributing factor to the Battle of Tukayyid.

Also I personally am a huge fan of the KGC-001 for being the best mech I've ever piloted despite its massive explody problems.

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For all the people that vociferously supported the hood option over the skull option, here you go.

>>50472641
>which is the better name for a battletech shitposting page:

I can't believe I'm the first to say this. Try:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/

>>50472738
>not able to bust Clans
>busted all the Clans at Tukayyid
Nice try, Lincoln

>>50472738
>Ok, serious answer. Basically, the Clanbusters were a series of five upgrades (listed here: >>50472648) that were advanced technology field refits, mostly using 300 XL engines.

But changing the engine isn't a field refit. That's some pretty serious bullshit, anon.

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>>50472676
Anon, it's got an XLFE and 3 ton of explosive ammo protected by 15 points of side torso armor. I like the Champion a lot, as pic related shows, but no CASE, thin armor and explosives are... just a bad combination.

>>50472826
shitposting =/= shit, anon
it was a good joke though

>>50472782
What is it? Blakist?

>>50472863
Don't look at me man, I don't know the refit rules because I don't have the brain for that shit. All I know is what Sarna and FM:Comstar told me.

>>50472830
That was mostly due to cheaty tactics, meatgrinder strategy, and some solid luck. Also they didn't bust ALL the Clans, just most of them (lolDiamondShark).

>>50472890
Post Champions pls

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>>50473009

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>>50473009

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>>50473009
Here's the 3G from that folder.

>>50473021
I have no idea what that is.

>>50472956
Ok the Wolves weren't technically, but even Focht couldn't outdo the munch of Phelan Kell/Wolf/Ward/Kell and Natasha Kerensky combined. Still, they killed a crusader khan which was good.

>>50472782
Is this a Clan Rape Demon mech? Looks scary af senpai

>>50473071
In our local Tukayyid campaign, we also dunked the Nova Cat Khan into a lake and captured him. Noncanon, but a good time.

Seriously though, fuck the Wolf front on Tukayyid, it's basically an impossible scenario given historical constraints.

>>50472641
How about
>Clan Snord's captured clantech memes

>>50473153
What do you mean?

>>50473512
About the Nova Khan? We literally pushed him into a lake with our mechs. Was a good time had by all (except the Khan who no one cares about).

About the Wolves? They just have so much plot armor on their side (Phelan Kellwolfward and Nasty K both active on the field) and so many of the CG mechs are bulk SL crap (how many Hermes II's does it take to kill a Mad Cat?) that we were never gonna beat them.

>>50473088
>>50472953
Free Worlds League

aka Blakist

>>50473626
Hermes II isn't SL, but I get your point. I actually think a lot of those SL mechs are pretty good aren't they? Didn't they have DHS, gauss rifles, ER PPCs and stuff?

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so i recently tried to make a 200x140 map (total of 28,000 Hexes) in megamek for shits and giggles. After working on it for a few weeks i recently did a quick play-test to see if boats can pass under some of the bridges (because desu im super unfamiliar with naval units and was not sure if they could pass under a bridge 1 level above the water) only to find that megamek shits itself when trying to start the map. The 160x170 (27,200 Hexes) maps that were put in the more recent builds work perfectly fine though. i have been using megamek 40.1 to build the map because 40.1 doesn't lag itself to hell when map making, unlike the dev builds. I tested the map in the stable version as well as every dev version i have, but no success.

The map loads up fine and runs well in the map editor, its when you try to start a game that its a problem.

So anyone here know what the deal could be? can megamek not handle a dimension of 200? can it not handle that many hexes? or maybe its something else...

pic related. It's the map. i wouldn't mind resizing it and lopping of a few hexes on the right and bottom. just wondering if anyone has some experience before i go cut off more hexes then necessary.

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>>50473626

Did you play the Tukayyid scenarios from the SP? They're all massively weighted to the IS. One particularly egregious example pits 18 Com Guard machines (averaging Heavies themselves) against 8 Clan Machines, on a single map, *and* pretty much allows them to win at any time by blowing the bridge the Clans have to capture.

Then there's another that pits 18 'mechs (again, Heavy on average) that can deploy anywhere against 5 'Mechs (1 Gargoyle, 2 Summoners, 1 Hellbringer, 1 Mad Dog) that have to start in the centre of the map. Oh, and that one is fought on a single map.

The Wolves in fiction only won because it was pre-planned, the Bears and Falcons getting their draw and win respectively for the same reason. Trying to play the scenarios out on a map, either based on the fluff descriptions of the SBs and novels or what's in SP: T is pretty pointless, the IS *will* faceroll the Clans without even trying.

>>50471158

>>50474114
No, those are Royals and the like. A lot of SL mechs are kinda bulk produced crap. I've gotten more Mongooses scrapped than I can count during Tukayyid. Same for Clints, Hermes II's, various crappy mediums, etc. Shads, god, I have nightmares about getting stuck with Shads.

>>50474180

That's a good question. What is the maxiumum map size for MM?

>>50474180
>>50474314

I find it really bogs down past 6x6 sheets or so. Even big blank space maps I've tried to load up for some high speed high-g aero shenanigans have that happen.

>>50474114

Well, the Tukayyid SP gives them the canon Clanbusters (8+ roll), everything from TR 2750 (8+ roll) a smattering of 3050 upgrades (8+ roll) and all of the stock 3025 models (if you fail the 8+ roll you pick any of those you like in the same weight category).

It's just that over time there have been a lot of other retcons adding other things to ComStar's arsenal, like the Pillager, Thunder Hawk, Nightstar, and Emperor which SP: T doesn't list because it came out before TR 3058 was a thing.

The Tukayyid results already strain credulity because of ComStar's hilarious ASF superiority, let alone their artillery deployment. Adding in a bunch of dual (and triple, in the case of the TDK) Gauss monsters is going to fuck the Clans even harder than just ASF, artillery, and sheer weight of numbers already does.

>>50474282
We did a campaign against the Nova Cats, mostly from that book I think, but the GM heavily modified things. We crushed them basically because I had several extremely bullshit mechs (KGC-001 and HBK-2CS4C) since it was my first campaign and one of the first times I played BattleTech, so the GM was nice.

We definitely lost missions from time to time and it was usually a tough battle. Towards the end we were so overwhelmingly crushing them that it became faceroll time though.

Incidentally, I also played in all of the canon games at cons during Tukayyid year. Those were usually quite hard as well.

>>50474342
6x6 sheets of what size?

>>50474402
What kind of aerospace and artillery advantage did they have?

>>50475287
Actually having the latter, for one.

>>50475521
Sorry, I don't recall what kind of organic artillery support they had. Some of the Clans (Wolves of course, Nova Cats and Smoke Jaguars) had some too.

>>50475287
Comstar came to Tukayyid with full-scale armies with everything that implies: supplies, support elements (aerospace, conventional vehicles, infantry, etc), artillery, dirty tactics, the works. The Clans came to Tukayyid with minimal mech forces (they bid highly aggressively against each other for Tukayyid), expecting a freeroll like the rest of the IS had been up to that point. They encountered artillery on every front (first time they fought artillery in the IS as far as I know), aerospace assets (more than anyone else had deployed against them by a serious amount), and good ol fashioned Quaker thuggery (Atlases hiding in mud pools, etc).

Basically, the Clans showed up to a mechfight with a one-shot SRM 6 launcher, expecting a quick TAC. Comstar showed up with a RAC/5 with two tons of ammo, expecting an extended fight. It went about as well for the Clans as you think it would.

>>50475287

Clan Clusters average between 20 and 30 ASF each, but each Com Star Division had 39.

Some Clans like the Jags were even shorter on ASF coverage, fielding Clusters that consisted of only 'Mechs or 'Mechs and Elementals.

They also had absolute artillery advantage considering the vehicles they used and the way the Wolves, the most Artillery-heavy Clan known at the time, had like 60 Nagas and those are the only confirmed artillery present on Tukayyid *at all.* Theoretically some of the others might have made one-off Omni configs but none are known to exist, or even hinted at anywhere at the time.

Against the Jags, IIRC at the Racice Delta, the Com Guard were actually wiping out entire Jag Clusters at a time with artillery barrages.

Couple this with their numerous ambushes, extensive minefields, and everything else? If you try to actually play Tukayyid out instead of just saying that the battle you're doing is a snapshot where the tide may have turned one way or the other and what you get is a one-sided curb-stomp of the Clans.

Which is the Invasion era in a nutshell really, even just taking into account the way it was originally a 3025-only environment for the IS until after Outreach and that advanced technology was still somewhat rare after that.

IS forces, played with even a modicum of sense, vastly outnumber and outweigh the Clan bids, and have considerable artillery support. Support that's at least good enough to delete a Binary or Trinary, which in some cases is a quarter of the Clan bid. If the rest of the RCT can't roll up two Trinaries between them then something has gone seriously fucking wrong.

Giving them the quantity of LosTech that's floating around after the 3039 retcons skews things even further.

At least in the original fluff you could argue that being shot with a Large Laser from nearly double the effective range and with a quarter more damage would be quite the psychological blow. Now the IS just goes "Oh, an ER Large Laser."

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>>50468992
www.macross2.net/m3/m3.html

For all your Macross lineart needs.

>>50475669
I like this write up.

I will add/ask, some clans like the Nova Cats and presumably Jaguars had smaller aerospace elements in clusters directly because of a practice to draw them as needed from an aerospace reserve. I'm guessing from what happened those assets were bid away?

>>50475833
That situation is actually closer to how the Vipers deal with their aero fighters, with most of them directly assigned to the naval side of things while only a single trinary (of 1 fighter = 1 point) assigned per cluster. It's come back to bite the Vipers in the ass a few times, though their pilots are pretty badass on their own despite the mass insanity of not using them more often.

As for Tukayyid, the Jags were all about the idea of "we're just gonna run over the top of them because we iz da best," so they probably hot loaded their clusters for just such a plan. Part of that has to do with their pride at not listening to the ilKhan's advice, the other part might be a part of how they managed to win the bid to be the first on-world.

The Cats, however, had a Khan who was a noted Aero ace (not sure if he was in charge at Tukayyid, though; it's been a while). I'm chalking it up to bidding practices as a head-canon reason why so few aero units were used by some Clans, because the Cats otherwise were one of the noted naval powers, before everything started to go to hell.

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>>50475795

The footage animated in >>50468765 is from Do You Remember Love, not the original Macross series, but IIRC, it's also a VF-1J in the TV show, too. I think it's interesting that the variant shown in the lineart is the armored VF-1J (two head lasers), while the Crusader is clearly an armored VF-1A (single head laser).

The model I have is also a VF-1A. They didn't even give you extra heads to switch out for the -J or the -S.

>>50476116
Also note that the Jags were the first to land on Tukayyid, with the first warrior being an elemental who intentionally cut his landing JJ to be first, nearly killing himself.

>>50475833

At least in the case of the Jaguars I'd more readily believe that they just got rid of their ASF over time to focus on 'Mechs because ASF elements are the most likely to bid away with Safcon the expectation in the Homeworlds.

There's no real information about the Cats but since one (both?) of their Khans in that era were pilots I think they'd be in the average range for ASF deployment.

The only Clan that we do know had an ASF fleet reserve and used ad hoc deployment were the Blood Spirits. Everyone else replaced basically replaced their vehicles in most Clusters with ASFs. Any Word of Herb is that the stuff listed as attached to ground forces comprises the majority of total available ASF assets, with few exceptions like the integral component of WarShips.

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We really shouldn't be on page 8.

>>50476203

Even in the future, there are fags who want to scream FIRST

Hey /tg/

Your love of battletech and talking about it has encouraged me to download MegaMek, since I want to give this a try.

I have no clue what the fuck I should be doing.

Any good guides people know of for playing megamek/battletech for newbies?

>>50477471
There's a link for Rookie Guides in the OP.

>>50477471
Seriously, download the quickstart rules through google. Set up a boy. Set up the map "open terrain 2" and play the scenarios in the quickstart rules.

You'll lose a lot, but you'll eventually figure out how things work. That's how I learned the game.

>>50478082
>>50477560
>>50477471
Optionally, play with someone from the IRC

>>50477471

BT is a hell of a game to try to learn on your own. Check the IRC for someone who might want to do a demo game.

>>50477471
>>50478641
>>50479292

Confirming. I'm on the IRC pretty often and would be down to teach/show.

>50445664
Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. Who knows how long I would have been waiting otherwise.

>>50472782
I am cumming

I enjoy playing megamek, just hard to find a community to play with, unless I'm not looking hard enough. Kinda worried about running into spergs though.

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I had a pilot by the name of Stiletto in the early years of the Clan invasion piloting a Battlemaster. Refit resources were tight, but I made a small refit and wondered if this was too much for some decent techs to pull off.
I replaced the heat sinks with doubles, removed seven sinks and added a second PPC, and moved the rear firing medium lasers to fire forward. Is this too much? I wanted to add CASE in trade for a half a ton of machine gun ammo, and possibly am going to go with FF, but I don't know. I have some time before I finish the refit in the fiction.

>>50481216

CASE requiring a full factory refit is generally regarded as one of CGL's more retarded decisions so you're not going to find much opposition to making that change here.

With the MGs I'd look at swapping those for a pair of Small Pulse Lasers since those now annihilate infantry just as well as a MG but with a to-hit bonus. You can easily make up the half-ton needed for CASE with a swap to Ferro-Fibrous armour.

>>50473153
>Seriously though, fuck the Wolf front on Tukayyid, it's basically an impossible scenario given historical constraints.
It is kinda bullshit. ComStar deployed twice as many troops against them as any other Clan, many veteran or elite, yet not only did the Wolves win they did so with the fewest losses. If nothing else that mentioned artillery and aerospace advantage should have crushed the Wolves.

Thinking about having my group jump from Introtech to FedCom Civil War. What record sheets do I need, what's the tech level, how big should the maps be, and how long are games?

>>50482273
You might forget as many do that the Wolves only kept their wins because Focht let them. He had two more armies vectoring in on their positions, one battle-hardened and the other a fresh reserve, when they took the second city and he chose not to contest it.

Why? Even allowing a Wolf victory there didn't change ComStar had won overall, and plus a victory for Ulric there served Focht's interests in promoting Warden superiority.

If Focht had allowed the Com Guard to as utterly wreck the Wolf frontline galaxies as they had others like the Jaguars, it would have weakened Ulric's position among the Clans.

So in the finance options for a meagre starting merc company megamek campaign, I can either use maintenance costs based on unit type or based on unit cost. One gives me an expected monthly maintenance of 7,800 cbills, the other 1,030,000 cbills.

One seems somewhat low, the other incredulously high.

>>50482645
>What record sheets do I need
Stuff from TRO/RS 3050, 3055, 3058, 3060, Project Phoenix, and 3067 is fair game. Though some 3067 stuff doesn't show up until the later parts of the conflict. Also note that the Project Phoenix record sheets are in RS 3085 Unabridged: Project Phoenix.

>what's the tech level
Everything is covered in Total Warfare.

>how big should the maps be, and how long are games?
Both still depend heavily on hoe big the units are on the field. The basic 4 mapsheets for each pair of lances on the field remains a good rule of thumb, but if running sufficiently fast lights or mediums, adding some more sheets might not be a bad idea.

>>50482993
Never ever, ever, use any of the unit cost-based options in AtB, everything completely shits the bed when you do

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What's your favorite Draconis Combine 'Mech?

If you mostly play Dracs, why did you pick them? What do you like about the faction?

>>50482946

Arguable.

But definitely the reason Focht and Ulric declared the Falcons and Bears as having minor victories and draws even though neither actually did enough to claim that result. It gave them a bigger stake in maintaining the Truce and salved their egos.

>>50483571
Grand Dragon
Because PPC
What's good about Dracs?
PPC

>>50483571
I'd have to pick between the Wolverine-6K, the Warhammer-6K, the Shad-6K and the Hatamoto-Chi, but overall I'd probably pick the HTM.

Why did I pick 'em? That's where the Space Finns were (until Rasalhague broke off). I simply kept playing the Dracs after that, because Teddy K is A-OK.

Also I tend to have a death touch with the factions I've played - along with the DC, I've played FRR (Clanned) and St Ives (Xin Sheng'd). So far the DC is still puttering along, though, maybe it's because it's too big to die from me choosing it.

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>>50483576
We could argue it, and maybe we'd get nowhere, but I just feel 8-12 fresh ComGuard divisions would have been able to crush at least one Wolf galaxy and mitigate their victory by retaking at least one city.

>>50483924

I don't disagree about that part, just whether the terms of Tukayyid allowed for that.

My interpretation was that on the Clan side they were expecting the battle to end once they held both cities since those were the terms agreed to. It never really mattered for anyone else because only two Clans ever managed to capture an objective, much less hold it.

As you say the results were beyond any doubt at that point regardless.

>>50483961
From what it looked like to me it was whichever side cried "uncle" first in each battle and conceded defeat, because there were cases in some of the battles of Clans taking objectives and then being contested. For example the Bears took Spanac and then ComStar began shelling and raiding it, so the Bears had to leave part of their force to hold it while they pushed on Luk. As long as there were ComGuard in the field I think Focht could have continued the Wolf campaign but chose not to.

>>50484016

Yeah, but in those cases the other objective hadn't fallen.

Only the Wolves managed to hold both at once.

I think for the Clans that was the condition they were expecting would end their part in the larger Trial, though ComStar may or may not have been on the same page.

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>>50483571
I like the Jenner best. After The Crescent Hawk's Inception, Mechwarrior 1 and many campaigns, I love the little inefficient light mech.
I really want a mass produced model that simply adds DHS, CASE, ES and an extra ton of armor, but I can only do that in my own games.

>>50483571
Ah hell I should add I love the Grand Dragon that runs at 6/9. Watching Commandos and P-Hawks running for their lives and that expensive thing being able to keep up and smack them at long range is so much fun.
RUN LITTLE COMMANDO, RUN! DON'T LOOK BACK! HE'S COMIN' FOR YA!
Also Ai has sagging boobs. I've seen them. They're disappointing.

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>>50484463
>HE'S COMIN' FOR YA!

Watch for that kick! He's tricky!

>>50482645
Your games in 3067 may be quicker than introtech, because XL engines. Mechs carry more dakka, yet die easier to left or right torso loss.

>>50484463
Only pair of tits on a Japanese woman I've ever seen that were really disappointing were that one girl with the monster lopsided ones and the ayyy lmao face.

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>>50484661
Ai doesn't do a lot of nekked stuff, but something slipped out. They are sagging really badly. If you notice some of the swim tops she wears, the fabric is covering up nipples that are really, really sagging low. It was extremely disappointing.
Also fast Grand Dragons everywhere!

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>>50484853
>all these rear facing weapons

but why

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>>50484853
>Also fast Grand Dragons everywhere!

Somebody asked for a fast Grand Dragon? This is fun to poke around with during late-FCCW-era campaigns. Getting 2.5 times your walking MP when using both MASC and a Supercharger is hilarious. The MixTech is limited only to the weapons loadout.

>>50484947

Originally the Grand Dragon and Dragon just have one ML that faces rear.

The upgrades then turn another one to face rear because haha, fuck the Dracs.

>Derreire STRAETE

Thank you, Captcha.

>>50484998
I get that plenty of mechs had suboptimal design choices specifically to give flavor and weaknesses to create more of difference between each mech and to allow the possibility for more tactical exploitation, but it requires a lot of suspension of disbelief that in universe mechwarriors in the setting wouldn't straight up tell mech designers "that's dumb, you're dumb, please stop making these dumb choices"

>inb4 someone says kuritans are constantly running away from battle so they need more back weapons

>>50485095

In that case I'm willing to give FASA the benefit of the doubt and assume that the designer thought the originals had two that faced backwards.

A lot of the time it seems as though they're deliberately favouring or being dicks towards factions due to the sheer number of excellent or shit designs they wind up with.

>>50484164
Maybe. I definitely see your interpretation, and in either case it seems to have been good enough for Focht and Ulric.

Am I right in recalling that the Dracs have like whole battalions made up of just Panthers or Dragons?

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>>50484994
RUN LITTLE LOCUST, RUN! RUN ICE FERRET, RUN!
Nice sprinter there, NEA. I wholeheartedly approve.

>>50483571

I enjoy hilarious bad guy factions, especially the poor mooks who have to fight under them. Draconis Combine also has the most interesting regiments next to the FWL.

>>50485095

No, see, the Kuritans know others are shameful and put the back weapons there to punish such ninjas and backstabbers.

>>50485668
>punish such ninjas

Surely you mean DEST commando teams. Everyone knows there are no such things as ninja. Further mentions of ninja will be cause for an ISF interview.

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>>50461334

>>50485548
Considering that since the original housebooks had gimped the DCMS to having only five types of producible mech between even fewer factories, one of which being the Stinger LAM which writes it off as useless to most games.

That leaves only the Dragon, Panther, Quickdraw, and Charger 1A1 still in production. It says nothing about numbers. If those workers aren't pulling 17-hour days and putting out numbers in the range of about 50 mechs a year per line, the DCMS would be completely overpowered by other factions.

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>>50486233
LAM A VIABLE! A VIABLE!

>>50466777
>Ostroc
I'm kind of surprised it wasn't fluffed into being a DC-design.

SRM4, as seen on the Panther and Quickdraws
Medium lasers, just about everywhere, namely on Dragons and Quickdraws
The 300-engine, also found in Dragons and Quickdraws.

Large lasers would be new, but if the DC were getting Hermes III's from the FWL, I don't see the issue, there.

>>50485610
>Draconis Combine also has the most interesting regiments next to the FWL.

Really? They seem rather flavourless with their overwhelming "Regulars" schtick.

>>50486470
Chain Gang Missions tho

>>50486250
Not with the new "Mechs only, Final destination" book coming out.

That being said, I haven't considered LAMs viable for years. Not even due to power levels or how the rules are written, but because the rules are obscurely tucked away, miniatures have been OOP for more than 20 years, and it requires knowledge of the aerospace rules everyone completely ignores.

I'd be more likely to be able to use a Neptune submarine, I think.

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>>50486485
Weren't those only in the second Succession War? I haven't read Drac history in a while.

Also, was *any* of the Kurita history changed in their handbook? I mean Liao's was changed *substantially*, and even Davion, Marik and Steiner got tweaked at least a little.

>>50486233
The LAM complex was a literal LAM island that cranked out a shit ton and LAW Luthien was a supercomplex on Hesperus scale except even better because unlike the twelve battles of Hesperus that wrecked shit, it was untouched by the Succession Wars.

You also forgot that they actually make the P-hawk 1K. It's not a refit line like the Shadowhawk or Warhammer.

Plus they had Quentin making a handful of Atlases up until the late 3rd War.

>>50486494
There's been new LAM miniatures since like five years ago though, spectrals and Mk I's. Plus you can use Paladium's stuff for the old Mk II's.

I agree on the rules and aero though. 90% of the time everyone just plays in airmech mode though. Which since they use WIGE movement now that nobody uses either, really isn't much of a difference.

>>50486233
With such few models and factories, you're right in that their output must have been extremely high. Otherwise I can't see how they'd support the massive army they had.
I mean with regards to the 3025 era, the FWL looks like it has a more impressive military-industrial complex than the Kuritas or Davions but its army is the second smallest.

Size wise in 3025 isn't it Davion > Kurita > Steiner > Marik > Liao ?

>>50486689
Nah, 3025 davions actually had shit for production, but had the most old leftover machines and let's not forget their enormous quantity of mercenaries

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HBS's new BattleTech email went out, showing off the cast. I'm not really a fan of... any of them, really. 1/5.

>>50486689
In 3028 directly before Operation Rat according to Xotl's tables it was

Davion (78 regiments), Kurita (66), FWL (56), Steiner (52.66), and Liao (40.66)

These are house units only, not including mercs.

>>50486751
He's talking army size, not production.

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>>50486783
Also, it irritates me that they put the character's ancestry in, because what I really care about is what part of old Terra our cast of generically brown cast comes from.

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>>50485548

Full Dragon battalions are definitely a thing per TR 3039.

Full Panther battalions are a definite possibility but there hasn't been anything to confirm it. We do know there were all-Panther companies though.

>>50486539

>LAW Luthien was a supercomplex on Hesperus scale

That's... not what the old sources say. LAW definitely does become a Hesperus-style super-complex because so many lines, including all the first-gen IS Omnis, are added there in the post-3050 books. Which then makes blowing it up all the more retarded since that should have crippled the DCMS for a good 20 years at least, potentially 50 or more and have left them in no state to engage in their Dark Age storyline.

But then, CGL can't into logical consequences so whatever.

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>>50486817
3/5.

>>50486817
At least they got the Centrella right as a black amazon.

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>>50486830
4/5

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>>50486856
And the final one, proof that no matter what you do, your equipment is doomed to be shoddily built nuclear bomb trucks, with a Finnish Capellan and a Regulan Muslim.

>>50486516

>Also, was *any* of the Kurita history changed in their handbook?

Nope. All of it, including the most retarded shit, was reinforced there.

Ben Rome basically just cut and pasted the old sourcebook and didn't bother with unfucking the Dracs at any level.

HB: HK was abysmally disappointing. We waited so long to get it and when we did the only new parts in it were art and a compilation of manufacturing sites.

>>50486879

>no white people

Glad I didn't back this SJW circle jerk.

I'm designing my own mechs and I've got the Tech Manual and Tactical Operations, where else can I find info to build them?

>>50486901
Aside from those two, additional options for mechs are in Interstellar Operations.

>>50486895
Mastiff looks cool.

>>50486895
I don't mind the no white guys thing, I am just kinda sad that the TC are the villains. I just wanted to be a Taurian sympathizer dammit.

>>50486828
>that should have crippled the DCMS for a good 20 years at least, potentially 50 or more and have left them in no state to engage in their Dark Age storyline.

Don't forget the part about the CEO being a top Black Dragon and letting the Black Dragons destroy the most important industrial site in Kuritan space. Made more sense back when they blamed the Blakists. I don't know what they were thinking when they did all that. The Black Dragons are about restoring traditional samurai honor bullshit, not about crippling their own ability to make war.

The old sources do say that stuff about Luthien though. All that heavy industry is why they call it Black Luthien or the Black Pearl of the Combine in the first place. You also just have to look at all the lines that are there. Main dragon line was there, main panther line, the charger line, the quickdraw line. Sure, there were a couple other places like Benjamin and Dieron pulling their weight but LAW outclassed them all.

>>50486997
Anon, it's paranoid cowboys versus progressive man hating patriarchy. Exactly what side would SJW's take?

>>50487020
Sorry, that's a man hating *m*atriarchy. I'm so used to seeing muh patriarchy that it's hard to shift.

>>50487020
But *I* wanted paranoid cowboys dammit.

>>50486998

LAW was definitely the biggest factory site the Dracs had and as important to them as Hesperus was to the Lyrans.

It just didn't have Hesperus-level output until at least some time in the late 3050s when there's all the old stuff being built there and the new Omnis being churned out.

>>50468092
Clan Wolf, Clan Wolf-in-Exile, or Clan Jade Falcon.

>>50473021
kek

>>50487045
I'd disagree just from the prodigious output of the Dragon and Panther lines. They didn't have the variety, but they had the bulk numbers.

LAW just got to be even more bullshit big later. Of course, so did Hesperus. So many lines...

>>50486925
Thanks. Just beat Mechwarrior 4: Mercenaries twice and I wanted to get into the tabletop game. I was wondering how big the discrepancy between the video game's mechanics and the tabletop's mechanics are, though. In Mercenaries I had Mech loadout down to a very, very simple science.

>>50487113

Hesperus is explictly and repeatedly stated to be the largest single facility in the IS with production that dwarfs everything else, hence the repeated attempts by every other House to capture it from the Lyrans.

LAW isn't small potatoes, but it's not a rival for Hesperus during the SW era either. Nothing was.

>>50487179

>I was wondering how big the discrepancy between the video game's mechanics and the tabletop's mechanics are

Massive. Mercenaries didn't just have the Hardpoints system, things in it often wind up weighing a vastly different amount to the board game side of things.

MW2 and MW3 did have a one to one conversion system with construction aside from a few oddities like, IIRC, Clan Streak MRMs which were never a thing in BattleTech proper.

>>50486879
>>50486856
>>50486830
>>50486817
>>50486783
Much diversity, very uninteresting, shock value for having people with brown coloured skin. Wow!

>Yang Virtanen
I wish I could punch the faggot that came up with this character.

It's a shame that boards of marketers forget that their primary marketed audience are 20-40 year old WHITE males. Who will now have a difficult time giving a shit about the characters. If they care at all, as evidenced by our reactions.

>>50486997
>, I am just kinda sad that the TC are the villains
Source? That's pretty disappointing if true

>>50487179

As far as video game to table top conversions go MechWarrior 4 is the worst as it completely fucks with the construction rules. Often times even the stats of the weapons themselves are completely different and all sorts of other weirds things like how there are no hard points that equipment and ammo takes up. At least the construction rules are nowhere near as fucked as the mechcommandef games.

I would say MechWarrior 2 and MechWarrior online are closer to tabletop (minus online's hard point system) with MechWarrior 3 being a close 2nd though it has all sorts of weird things like jumpjets weighing the same in all weight classes.

>>50487207
>Massive.

Balls. I would understand if you told me to just read the fucking books, but would you be willing to give me a primer on the basics of loading out a mech? My system in Mercenaries went as follows:

>LRMs have the best weight to damage ratio for long range weapons and don't take up much space in a mech, but the missile hits don't cluster so well and you typically need extra ammo
>The clan gauss rifle weighs a lot and takes up a lot of space but it's a great finisher since it punches one spot real hard, it also rarely needs extra ammo and it produces negligible heat
>Devote equal tonnage to LRMs and gauss rifles in mechs intended for long range engagement, substitute the rifles for ER PPCs and heat sinks if the mech can't mount ballistics that big
>LBX AC 20s have the best weight to damage ratio for short range weapons
>Pack as many LBX AC 20s as possible in mechs intended for short range engagement, back them up with a single long range weapon that does decent damage like a large pulse laser
>Medium range engagement is fucking pointless because the benefits provided by short and long range engagement far outstrip it
>LAMS always, BAP for the long range mechs, ECM for the short range mechs

>>50486997
Tc is villain

This is bullshit

>>50487579
Not him but minmaxing cheese machines has already been done to death. There's over 2000 canon variants of hundreds of chassis, and fans have been making optimized versions for just as long.

One thing your stuff completely neglects is that like the guy said, space and weight is different.

Like the LRM5 is the most mathematically efficient of the LRM racks. When you have 12 slots in a given location then you can jam a lot more of them in for less weight as well.

The humble vanilla medium laser is the best damage/weight ratio and short distance weapon. This is why so many of the old 3025 fan cheese machines get called disco mechs. Even a couple of official designs get that treatment.

Medium range is also a very effective engagement range since it's where your long and short bracket weapons overlap for best overall numbers for the most damage with a bracketing machine you might decide to run hot.

So on and so on.

Basically, download a copy of Solaris Skunkwerks to design by computer, then read all the weight and weapon tables in Tech Manual to get a feel of weight/crit/damage/range for the tabletop weapons. Then play around with it in the program until you make what you want.

Then you can post it here if you want and people can comment on its capabilities.

>>50487579
LRMs are certainly a go to, but the way cluster hits work is that you're likely to connect with only a portion of the launcher's value.

Clan Gauss Rifles (and other 15 point hit weapons) are actually very good as main gun, however, MW4 gives you 24 shots with the gun, IIRC, while the TT is 8 shots a ton, and you don't get any ammo with the weapon.

Since there are no loadout restrictions on mechs, ballistics/LRM woes don't really exist, but if you're carrying Gauss, a decent short ranged array and/or cluster weapons are a good mix, so you're fine there.

LB-20s are, well they're okay. Since the pellets aren't all guaranteed to hit, the LB-10 is actually your better bet, because of their relatively light weight, and good damage.

LB-X cannons are very critical slot and tonnage intensive, and have a very short range, so packing only those can get you shredded, even with a Clan Large Pulse Laser.

Hilariously, the table top is more about Mid/Short range because of the penalties involved with long range attacks.

LAMS is actually very high heat, and AMS in general aren't really worth the tonnage, BAP does nothing for missile and ranged accuracy, but ECM goes on everything.

>>50487579

>would you be willing to give me a primer on the basics of loading out a mech?

This is really a "how long is a piece of string" question, I'm afraid.

Essentially just pick a role and design around that.

If it's a longer-ranged 'Mech you can make it slower because it has enough range not to need to close fast. OTOH, you can also make it fast so it can exploit the range.

If it's a short-range design, faster is generally better so it can get in and kill things. OTOH you can make them slow so they protect the slower, longer-range designs.

EW gear tends to be pretty rare until around 3067, after which ECM Suites really take off.

Jump jets usually go on lighter, faster machines and it's always a good idea to pack on as much armour as possible. DHS are always better than SHS even if you aren't using all your heat because Inferno ammo (napalm missiles) and other external heat sources of heat are a thing.

Standard Engines versus XL Engines is an ongoing bone of contention and probably always will be. Just go with what you think will work there.

>>50487579
I'm not the dude you are responding to but if I wanted the describe the differences between battle tech and mech4 I would practically be copy pasting the techmanual.
While generally things like gauss and LRM's are still a nice thing they come with their own downsides, most notable is the massive amount of critical slots gauss takes and how gauss rifles explode when damaged. Their ammo doesn't blow up though so that's nice. Something to remember is that without using advanced rules you can't really aim at specific spots so you can't get that reliable constant Gauss bursts to the center torso all the time. Generally Gauss rifles and similar big punch weapons can be good for punching a hole in the armor where an array of weapons like medium lasers, LBX AC's, and SRM's can scatter all over the mech and hopefully hit the area the armor was stripped from and score some damage to the internals.

LRM's are also a lot less consistent then they are in mech4. If you shoot an LRM 20 you are lucky you can get all 20 missiles to hit, but most the time you will get 12 to hit, they act like mech4 in the way they dont all hit the same spot though. It's important to realise that you have a large range penalty and trying to hit running Mechs at long range with default gunnery skill can be hell. If you and your enemy are moving at long range then you can expect chances to hit to be impossible numbers like needing 13 to hit with 2d6.

AC 20 are kinda similar in the way of being a Large punch close range gun that can vaporize some lights in a single hit. Of course that is all down to the dice roll. With one AC 20 you get one chance to hit. Also notable is ammo explosions. If you are running around in a introtech hunchback be ready to cause quite the lightshow if your ammo gets hit.

Basically medium range is a lot more helpful in tabletop as you want to stay out of the kill zone of things like the AC 20 while also not being far enough that you can't hit jack shit

>>50487555
>>50487713
The email literally says that the MoC are your allies and the evil people who took over your lands are backed by the TC. TC legit the villain.

>>50488123
>When House Espinosa seized control of the Aurigan Coalition, they subjugated the Founding Houses and conscripted their House militias into a standing army. Under Espinosa leadership, the realm has been reformed into the Directorate, an authoritarian power with strong ties to the Taurian Concordat.

>>50488123
>>50488153
That's dumb as hell
Hype=gone

>>50488193
>In late 3022, control of the Aurigan Coalition was forcefully seized by the old regime's longtime ally, House Espinosa. The rightful High Lady, Kamea Arano, managed to escape the coup and disappear into the Rimward Frontier. Working in secret, she began sowing the seeds for her own return to power: the Arano Restoration, a liberating army with the clandestine support of the Magistracy of Canopus.

>>50488123
>>50488153
Surprised the Capellans aren't the evil villains all things considered.

>>50488219
I think it's a case of how little fucks Maximilian Liao would give about anything that wasn't his husbando Hanse.

>>50486797
Oh I thought Steiner had the third largest army.

>>50488153
>>50488211
I'm still gonna play and enjoy it (skirmish mode, mah niggas) but I have to admit to being a little wary of the story campaign at this point. I don't have a strong interest in the MoC (they're ok, just not my bag) and I don't want to see yet more "TC is so evuls lol". I'm quietly hopeful that it'll be more balanced than I'm expecting, given the time period of the game (4th SW and all) but I'd be lying if I said I was super excited at the moment.

>>50488123
>Literally that one Firefly Whores vs Cowboys episode

>>50488327
I thought this as well. What gives?

>>50488438
Holy shit it basically is, with you playing the crew. Many, that was a solid episode on Firefly too. Maybe I'm a little more stoked for it now, thanks for the shot in the arm, anon.

>>50486895
>>50487551
>It's a shame that boards of marketers forget that their primary marketed audience are 20-40 year old WHITE males. Who will now have a difficult time giving a shit about the characters. If they care at all, as evidenced by our reactions.

This issue was JUST up on Randall's FB page.

It's evidently a core mission statement of HBS to "train" their customers into thinking that just because they represent one core demographic group, that any game manufacturer is beholden to create characters from that same demographic group. In essence, white guys have had a stranglehold on video game character development for ~30 years, and they aren't going to have that anymore. Just to make sure that's clear, HBS and some other affiliated indie game companies are deliberately not going to include white male characters in their games for the forseeable future.

>>50488123
>TC legit the villain.

Good. As it should be.

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>>50488621

>>50488621
I'm actually surprised people care this much about the heroes being brown people. I wouldn't have minded a single white character on staff as well as a full black character, but it is hardly that important.

What's really important is that the TC are second-rate villains. This is /btg/, where's the factional shitposting about this?

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>>50488438
>mfw it is

>>50488665
DAY

ONE

PIRATE

>>50488621
Sauce right the fuck now. I'm here to play an amoral prick who will double cross people in the interest of getting paid more than twice. I'm not interested in a lecture about how the jive honkey on the other side of the screen is a sack of shit for not making women and blacks feel better about their lives by giving them a leg up.

>>50488676
They're being opposed by third rate tranny whores, so we're all pissed about the paranoid cowboy team being generic baddies.

>>50488676
I don't mind the character design, I just think making the TC the bad guys is dumb

>>50488783
You and me both, friend. I hope at least to fight a Toro at some point, since I love that mech and want to see it on the battlefield in any way possible.

>>50488826
They've already said they plan to use as many models from MWO as possible to save on modeling costs. So a Toro is unlikely.

>>50488826
>charge in close to take advantage of minimum
>run into FUCKING STAGGERED RANKS MOTHERFUCKER

i want to believe

>>50488883
Booo.

>>50488901
Right? If I ever have a lot of disposable income, I want to buy like 12 Toros and play a game of BattleTech where I just field an entire Toro company in staggered lines that use complex firing line tactics to overwhelm the other guy.

>>50488744

Everything relating to Battletech in the last 48 hours has been deleted from his facebook. Which is sufficient proof of guilt for me.

>>50488826
>>50488933
Fucking love the toro. I'm gonna order a lance of them when I get the chance

>>50488972
Pick up a Talos too, it's the other TC homegrown chassis and is even in service through the Succession Wars. Looks pretty solid too. I'm a fan of the Talos and Toro in equal measure.

Why did the Toro go extinct in canon anyways? It's a good design.

>>50486783
>>50486817
>>50486830
>>50486879
>>50486856
I hope the gameplay isn't as generically brown as the cast. They could at least include a black person darker than my toast if they want to have diversity.

What the hell does their "ancestry" matter anyways? At the point the game is set in, people hearing "Muslim" almost certainly think of the Azami, not Iranians or Syrians. Similarly, Hawaiian isn't an ethnicity I can really see some guy 600 light years from Earth knowing about or caring if he did. Especially in a setting with such an emphasis on macro-level identity, where it's generally more important to know if the guy is a Lyran or a Leaguer than who boned who before leaving Terra a millenium ago.

>>50488621
>This issue was JUST up on Randall's FB page.
>It's evidently a core mission statement of HBS to "train" their customers into thinking that just because they represent one core demographic group, that any game manufacturer is beholden to create characters from that same demographic group. In essence, white guys have had a stranglehold on video game character development for ~30 years, and they aren't going to have that anymore. Just to make sure that's clear, HBS and some other affiliated indie game companies are deliberately not going to include white male characters in their games for the forseeable future.

Well, guess I can put the money I was saving for a big Christmas purchase of books and minis towards something else.

Unfortunately I get the feeling that telling Randall about this decision would only make him dig in his heels more, and give him the justification that "fighting those evil white males" caused any future failure.

>>50488621
>let's make this game into a racism issue

It wouldn't be a fucking problem if those fucks stopped bringing it up. Dropped.

>>50489059
>Why did the Toro go extinct in canon anyways? It's a good design.
In canon, the SLDF blew up all the factories and the taurians didn't ever rebuild them.
IRL, it's because they didn't feel like retconning it into the SW era, though I don't think it would have actually caused any problems if they did. I do, for my home games

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>>50488621
>This issue was JUST up on Randall's FB page.

>It's evidently a core mission statement of HBS to "train" their customers into thinking that just because they represent one core demographic group, that any game manufacturer is beholden to create characters from that same demographic group. In essence, white guys have had a stranglehold on video game character development for ~30 years, and they aren't going to have that anymore. Just to make sure that's clear, HBS and some other affiliated indie game companies are deliberately not going to include white male characters in their games for the forseeable future.

Pirate all day; every day. No seriously, inserting this racist crap everywhere keeps me from being a customer to a lot of places nowadays.

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>>50489288
Approaching bump limit and anger limit.
New thread.

>>50486817
BattleTech's cast are all ambiguously brown. It's 1000 years in the future.