Horus Heresy General /hhg/

1st for AL, Grey Knights and Custodes being the all star players of the 40k End Times that usher in the Age of the Emperor

>>50428812

And they're all led by Omegon who was Valdor the entire time.

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>>50428812
Let's pray that doesn't happen. That's not even truly related to the current timeline of 30k. Grey Knights aren't even a thing yet.

>>50428747

There is always "Magna".

>>50428862
Her eidetic memory focused on Malcador's voice. "OUR Emperor has already commented on that issue". No one else mattered right now, she needed to talk with her father. She'd seen men born and die, and their children have children of their own, their bodies aging before her very eye, and collected information all the while, yet right now she was being reduced to a girl asking permission to her father.

"Halt" protested a gold-clad custodian. She would have been offended by the crossed glaives barring her way had she not reminded herself they were simply following orders and protocol. "Good day, custodians. I'm on my way to see our Emperor" she told them.

-None shall pass, said the leftmost Custodian, his voice betraying Haedo's identity
-I simply must speak to Him, it's a matter concerning all legiones astartes, not just mine
-None shall pass
-Well I cannot simply abide on that decision

"Lord Valdor abides,” said the other warrior, whom she then identified as Amon.
“I expect he does,” she said, reaching out to touch the beginning of the spiralling script on Amon’s shoulder. “You have an old name, Amon, a proud name. It is a name borne by my equerry, a student of poetry and the hidden nature of things. If the name maketh the man, does that mean you are a similar student of the unknown?” continued , as she pulled herself closer to him, her slender fingers still dancing upon the parchment covering his armour
“Defending the Emperor requires a talent for discerning hidden truths,” replied Amon carefully. “I pride myself on having a certain skill in that regard.”
“Yes, I see you do. You are an exceptional man, Amon, and I believe you will go far within your order" she said, her hands now caressing the side of her helmet. "I see great things ahead for you,” said XV, before adding, “and for you also, Haedo.”
Amon inclined his head at the primarch’s comment, and the two Guardian Spears were lifted aside, allowing her to pass.

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Hey, can we get another glowing eyes pic of the other BL authors? Do ADB next, Anon. And for a more serious question to get this thread on track, what are you guys going to add to your army next? What are you going to buy next?

>>50428783
>I'm doing summaries again Sub-Edition
And I'm happy now! Thank you so much anon
>>50428899
Because bread anon is making thread summaries again, I'll consider it, but a bigger image would be nice to have.

>>50428812
>40k End Times doesn't even blow up the universe or nothing, and Emperor gets revived to fast track straight to Mary Sue mode and breaks out all the good secret deus ex machina he's been stockpiling.

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Trying to add armor studs to existing models is the devil. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions for studs?

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>>50428963
>And I'm happy now! Thank you so much anon
You're welcome.
>Because bread anon is making thread summaries again, I'll consider it, but a bigger image would be nice to have.
Here's one of him with a baby. I think he mentioned somewhere in one of his books he has a kid, so it's probably his.

>>50428981
I found a pic, but besides daddy issues, what's there about him?

>>50428885

Pretty good.

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>>50428899

>>50429016
Fact is, the second half of it is mostly copy pasted, I added like two lines. I swear this would be an ero flick if the primarchs were girls
>>50429017
Hey, that's nice too. How did you make it?

>>50429004
He's a Chaosfag that shills for Abby for a lack of better terms, or rather sums him up.
>>50429017
Thanks, Anon.

>>50429011
It's funny, I've seen the smiling Perty shoop so many times I get them confused now

>>50428966

>Abaddon becomes truly blessed by all four gods, ascends further than Horus ever did.
>the main Tyranid hive fleet arrives
>the necrons all wake up
>the eldar put into motion their plans to create Ynnead, the Phoenix Lords arrive for the final battle
>The Alpha Legion finally show their true faces as kinda maybe loyalists
>Russ, Omegon, Khan, Dorn, Guilliman, Corax and Lion come back
>Traitor primarchs all get off their asses
>Emperor is revived in a long winding scheme by the Inquisition/Omegon/Janus/Grey Knights/Custodes
>Imperiamania 40k free for all
>ends with the Emperor truly dead but Chaos grip on reality weakened. The golden throne and astronomicon are no longer necessary, for now. Eldar defeat Slaanesh and create Ynnead but just barely survive, they must continue to fight to exist in the 42nd millenium.
>Tyranids are mostly lured into the Eye of Terror and Maelstrom by the Death Watch, remaining 1% still enough to nearly destroy the eastern fringes of the Imperium.
>Most primarchs survive, create mini empires out of the remnants of the Imperium.


>New status quo in place from the 42nd millenium onward. Stagnant, but different.

That honestly sounds way cooler than what happened with WHFB end times where Chaos just plainly won.

>>50429035
Couple of seconds in GIMP with the airbrush tool. Adds a nice gradient effect.

>>50428971

Greenstuff and a (metal) mechanical pencil without lead.

1) Press a small blob of greenstuff onto the surface you want to stud until you reach desired thiccness.

2) Lube up pencil nib with water and press into greenstuff. Try to hit the greenstuff as perpendicularly as possible.

3) Carefully lift the pencil directly away (horizontally and you rip apart your work!)

4) You now have a stud surrounded by excess GS, carefully cut away excess with a lubricated tool of choice.

>>50428971

Is this from a video game? The way those SOH are textured makes it look like a promo screenshot from an in-engine cutscene.

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>>50429011
>implying Iron Warriors aren't all pigs in human clothing

>>50429078
Gimp? I do it all in Paint. I even programmed once with paint
>>50429154
L-leave them alone, anon! Petra isn't thick, she's just wearing big armour, that's al!

>>50429059
>Emperor is revived in a long winding scheme by the Inquisition/Omegon/Janus/Grey Knights/Custodes
>None of these schemes are compatible
>Half dozen Emperors created
>Each has their own color-coded gene-son forces
>Age of Emperor begins.

>>50429004
Angron did nothing wrong!

Also everyone's attempts to insult Angron are literally just agreeing with him.
>The Emperor should have left you to die.
>NO SHIT BUTTMUNCH!

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>>50429037

>>50429276
Oh, GIMPanon, if you want to do that stuff with the eyes, you'd be welcome.

>>50429276
You're a best, ya know that? Might have to use different colors though. How about blue?

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>>50429339
Aww thanks. Blue eyes? If you think it's look better then go ahead. I was basing myself on the new Primarch special eyes.

>>50429355
>If you think it's look better then go ahead. I was basing myself on the new Primarch special eyes.
>new Primarch eyes
That actual fits better.

is AA + PF on vet sergeants a meme or is it actually worth putting 25 points of gear on a sarge?

>>50429418
when that sarge insta-gibs a praetor, you'll see it's no longer a meme

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Okay I did one of the Blighnade and I figured he'd deserved golden eyes so he won't deny us Inferno.

>>50429011
But I like the Dreadnought. It looks unique among them, and looks perfect for either one with Extra Armor or as a Contemptor Cortus.

>>50429039
I'm just surprised that out of all the shops I've seen on here, it's the one that looks least shops.

>>50429428
but do they need AA as well as the fist? I figured it was AA to tank AP3 wounds but I wouldn't wanna tank with a mister fister.

>>50429449
>it's the one that looks least shops.
Uncanny, right?
>>50429433
Huh, so that's how Blighnade looks like. Thanks anon. I'm a bit tired, I'll think of a title later.

>>50429173
>High Test Petra
Hnnng!

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>>50429464

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>>50429462
>Huh, so that's how Blighnade looks like.
Yep.
>Thanks anon. I'm a bit tired, I'll think of a title later.
Glad to be of help.

Would any of the new TS plastics be usable in a 30k force?

Maybe mixing in some rubrics into tac squads or using exalted sorcerers as librarians

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>>50429486
Man, where have all the good looking GW employees gone?

>>50430084
Duncan and Rob are too busy making videos for Warhammer TV, as well as working on the Community pages.

Is a conversion Beamer Forge lord + rad missile servitors just a fun pick or is it actually good?

Also are they worth attaching a vigilator for that sweet sweet stealth?

>>50430239
They're a good alternative to Sniper Vets, both good against MEQs and monstrous creatures.

>>50430239
What I can tell from trying them once is that they rape quad mortar rapiers. That's all I need to know :^)

>>50428783

Would anyone get angry of this was posted on TFE for Goulding to see? I kind of want to see his reaction.

>>50430432
Don't do it man. No one likes someone who rubs mud on your face, which would be very different to him one day discovering that image on his own. I made the pic to entertain you, not to offend him, even if it does both.

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>>50430520

You do know he's seen this one, right? Though he simply laughed it off instead of answering the question why stupid shoehorn retcons should replace old fluff.

>>50429011

What is this meant to portray, is it that the chestplates and the dreadnought look dumb as fuck? I mean they really do, who thought lets slap a shuriken on a table coaster.

>>50429730
I'd say that the Scarab Occult would be usable with minimal work, it'd just involve the removal of Tzeentch and Eye of Horus iconography. The Rubric Marines could probably be used if you want some really ornate TS Marines, and have some different helmets, weapons, and backpacks on hand to swap out.

>>50430659
with some work the Rubrics might make good Veterans

>>50430613
Maybe he could take offense at some guy grabbing a pic of him from his hockey team page, chopping his eyes away and adding butthurt-ish remarks to the pic.
But it's not like I can stop you. I hope he takes it as what it is. Just a silly joke.

>>50429017
>Author with daddy issues: "I am growing stronger"

>>50429205
>Emperors and Emperor accessories (Perpetuals) become their own faction with multiple sub expansions and various verisons of the Emperor and his craziest allies
>Codex:Emperor sells like hot cakes and out spam Space Marines because lol super special snowflake appeal.

>>50430769
>All the various microfactions within the Imperium complete their new Emperor plans at once
>Emperors now outnumber humanity

I really dont like all this new fluff surrounding the emperor

so what's the deal with imperium secundus and how is pharos the origin of the nids?

>>50428783

So I want to do a Primarch Quest, set vaguely on a desert planet in the Space Middle East. What method of war isn't covered by the other eighteen dudes? Human auxiliaries? Drop-pod assaults? Armored cavalry? Using the most advanced wargear?

Because if I recall right, we have - Speedy assaults, terror attacks, endurance, stealth, treachery, magic, religious fanaticism, cybernetics, fire and forging stuff, berserk rage, vampirism, wolf vikings, the balanced approach to warfare in two different ways, knights, and being the best at everything, just the best.

Is no niche left uncovered?

>>50431170
Armoured warfare. The primarch is a command upgrade for superheavy tanks. Access to all types of tanks.

>>50431209

Don't the Iron Hands do that?

>>50431209
Iron Hands and Iron Warriors. Pert himself has a pimped out Shadowsword with Titan Void shields and a transport capacity of 15.

>>50431209

So Mad Max scavengers who become a tank Legion? Could work.

>>50431244
That's basically just tallarn but marines. Which is kind of stupid.

>>50430935
Gotta sell those sweet overpriced Emperor and Primarch models m8.

>>50428981
His afterword in Master of Mankind seemed too biased for my liking, even though he did mention he was a primary Chaos writer and fan.

He fails to forget that Chaos is a mostly human faction and interchangably uses humanity with the Imperium when the Emperor himself says that the Imperium is just an empire that can be reconquered whenever. And he also says that any one faction can wipe out the Imperium solo which is just blatantly wrong, since its the other way around at least for the smaller xenos factions.

I think he spends too much time on bolter and chainsword to be balanced. Because wanking Chaos leads to underdeveloped "progression" like the transition to Age of Sigmar, and I don't want that garbage in 40k.

Some folks like me just want the good guys to chainsaw daemons in the face and throw civilian populations in death camps and conversion into mutilated cybernetic slaves. Because no other setting has that shit.

>>50431407
>e fails to forget that Chaos is a mostly human faction and interchangably uses humanity

Wrong, Chaos is mostly daemonic. These guys are the ones who really won the HH and basically are having the galaxy delivered to them. The corrupted humans are just there to invite them in.

> when the Emperor himself says that the Imperium is just an empire that can be reconquered whenever.

That's when the Webway was still in his possession. Fucking hell and you accuses ADB of being biased? The Emperor was talking how the Webway war is more important than whatever was going on out there in the galaxy. If the Webway war is won, then humanity's future is safe. The galaxy can be easily reconquered. However, with the Webway lose, you can see the Emperor falling into doubt and despair with him saying that humanity and the Imperium are doomed.

>nd he also says that any one faction can wipe out the Imperium solo which is just blatantly wrong, since its the other way around at least for the smaller xenos factions.

Obviously, he was referring to the Nercrons, Orks, and Tyranids. Each and everyone of them are capable of destroying the Imperium alone without Chaos's help.

>>50429059
sorry but you're out of date with the fluff - Eldar tried the Ynnead shit and failed. Catch up noob

>>50431407
To be fair 40k has alaways been about the inevitable death of the imperium as mankind makes its last stand against the coming darkness from all sides and chaos has always been the greatest threat.

Link to Audiobook of MoM that's doing the rounds?

>tfw Dank Angels are what I want in a Heresy army with their cool swords and bonuses to swords, cool Heavy Bolters, love of plasma, and other things
>Am Iron Warrior

>>50429094

That sounds like it might actually work, thanks anon.

>>50431768
the thing holding me back from DA is the black armor

Will people hate me for using Anacharis Scoria? I really really like his rules (programming so hard that he programmed warp stuff is fucking awesome) and I'm a huge Dark Mechanicus fan, so he seems right up my alley.

Furthermore what's the best way to deploy him? With some footslogging automata or what?

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Looks like 40k is progressing into Age of Sigmar tier with he lastest fluff advancements.

At least everything is not terrible in 30k even if the BL material is for the most part terrible.

>>50432097
40k is less retarted as 30k at this point with what they're doing to the big E

>>50431244
Isn't that just Blood Angels?

>>50432137
Nah, 40k has now established that the Space Wolves Runepriests were right all along and that there were no hypocrisy from the Space Wolves part on psychich powers.

>The war is over. Humanity has lost. Warhammer 40,000 – in all its Gothic, towering, Cyclopean, decrepit, doomed, rotting Byzantine majesty – has taken its first irrevocable step.
Black Library confirmed non-canon.

>>50432156
oh for fucks sake really ?
still it doesn't irk me quite as much as the emperor becoming an emotionless social retard and the increasing likeliness of horus losing being JUST AS PLANNED to the point that the gods are the reason where he lost

>>50432156
I find it hilarious how much people are reading into a poorly worded summary of a book barely anyone has read yet.

>>50432173
I have just assumed for quite a while now that the Emperor was autistic based on the BL books.

>>50432183
It has been in print for at least 3-6 months prior to its release, it's coming out this weekend and a lot of redshirts has probably had time to read it.

>>50432199
Have you? Or are you taking the poorly worded summary on its own merits?

I think we know which one youre doing.

>>50432212
I'm assuming it's entierly true because it sounds just like the kind of writing that the team who also writes Age of Sigmar would write.

I'm not sure there is anyone working outside of FW at modern GW who is not a hack author.

>>50432269
In a way I dont blame you. Im more saying be cautious about assuming everything was exactly correct as explained by that guy. For example what did Ahriman do? We dont have the information yet, lets wait for the scans before declaring Fenris runs on the power of yiffs yeah?

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>>50428783

GUYS!

I understand now! I read the Chaos Space Marine Codex again and with all the stuff I read in the Forge-World books and maybe one or two HH novells... it is clearer now.

There was a fucking reason the rebellion happened beyond "lol,chaos!".

The Legiones Astartes were warriors and soldiers, but the 40k space marines are so heavily indoctrinated they are basically a STC produced type of machine.

Yes, there is individuality...but not the same amount of indivudal culture as the Codex Astartes reigns them in as hard as possible.

Horus and his pals disliking the rise of the Bureaucrats and fearing that there would be no place for them anymore after the crusade was done were pratty damn logical fears.

Of course, they would probably not been canned like the Thunderwarriors, as you'll allways need policing and defensive forces (See RT era space marines arresting punks), but the price is basically being neutered.

Of course that price would have been worth to pay for a save imperiam...but still.

Shit sucks.

>>50432323
Either way; I have zero interest in modern 40k fluff. It's poorly written and it's for the most part very uninspired. I'm really more disappointed that it's not sticking with the status quo and that the writers are probably moving it into an Age of Sigmar direction.

>>50428837
fuck, rules of nature always gets me
what's the most RULES OF NATURE moment in 30k

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>>50432370
I am afraid of that....

Still sad they killed Fantasy.

>>50432425
At least they can't turn 30k into something completely different than what it's intended to be.

>>50432544

let us rephrase this to "At least they can't turn 30k into something completely different than what it's intended to be..right?"

They will do it in a heartbeat if it sold better, in the future that is.

BL novells seriously skirt at the edge of this as I dislike most of the dudes they implement.
Luckily FW seems to have the good sense to pick their favourites.

>>50428783
I have a question on recon-squads.

I am planning to use 2 of them for my Outlander Black Shields to be used as teleporter stations and monstrous mechanicum squashers with sniper rifles.

Seems to be very risky though, with all the big template weapons running around.
I am unsure how much chameoline and scout armour would help.

>>50432562
PS:

By the whole thing, I mean that GW could just order them to do it.

Luckily FW seems to have good taste in general, which protected us.

>>50432562
I'm just saying that it already has an established template of what's going to happen. It's not like in 40k where anything can happen.

>>50432633
Sort of, yeah.

But they broke with old lore before, as I believe I remember that originally Garro and his guys were world-eaters instead or somesuch.

In ye olde heresy book.

>>50431917
He's a bit like Angron in that he doesn't really help his army much besides the truly gigantic pile of dead bodies he leaves behind him. His Warlord trait is meh, since in a Cybernetica detatchment you already have 24" controller range and the likelihood of any robot being outside that and really needing to make a sweeping advance is rather low.

His personal cybertheurgy powers are badass, and work really well on either Vorax or Castellax, bringing them to I5/6.

Personally I use him with 3 Vorax and Outflank him at the enemy, which will either wreck all their fire support or force him to fire nearly everything at the unkillable Dark Archmagos. Either way, you have a free turn for Dakka.

As he has no assault transport, he really isn't powerful enough to get butthurt about, especially if your opponents are running stuff like Ironfire (curse you for being so powerful, otherwise I would be tempted to start IW, but I can't play too fluffily without being a dick.) or Spartan deathstars. They do tend to get mad when they kill their special snowflake Primarch in one round of combat, though.

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>>50432645
Sure. They could always do something retarded out of the blue. I guess they could just make it so that the Emperor actually never fought Horus and that it's just a clone sitting on the Golden Throne and that the real Emperor will return in 40k for the Age of the Emperor reboot of the setting.

>>50428828
>Omegon who was Valdor the entire time.
Surely you jest

>>50432156
Even if that is true, they're still using warp energy. It would even make their use of Fenris' power more questionable, as it has been established multiple times that Fenris hates things living on it and the deeper underground you live the more corrupt you become. Just like Caliban in the HH novels ....

Basically if it is true then Runepriests are tapping their power from a daemonic entity trapped inside Fenris is what I'm saying.

>>50433030
It's probably a whole lot safer to use than tapping directly into the Warp. Although, the Fenris spirits are probably still predatory even if they are not Chaos daemons.

I'm having the thoughts of buying a LoW. However, I don't fancy the Typhon very much and look more to the Solar Axuilia options of diverse Baneblade-variants.
However, the Typhon feels like a must have when looking at cost if you put the Stormsword next to it.
Strength D is nice with the Falchion or shadowsword, but is it neccessary? Str 8-10 should be enough if it's a primary weapon for taking out armour or other Super-heavies, or am I wrong in this regard?
Anyone have experience fielding something else than a Typhon or Glaive, please tell me so I can get a picture of fielding a LoW.

>>50431116
Origin of the nids is a bit misleading.
The Pharos was a necron-esque ancient device that functioned as an empathic lighthouse in the warp. When it blew out, the flash was so bright that the Hive Mind felt it in another galaxy and decided to come over and see what was good for eating.

>>50433120
They came for the Pharos, but stayed for the Astronomicon.

>>50433101
>It's probably a whole lot safer to use than tapping directly into the Warp.
...

>>50433137
Well, you're less likely to come into direct contact with Chaos. If you're lucky you will get devoured by a lesser Warp entity.

>>50433120
I highly doubt the Pharos was made by the Necrons. Mainly because it worked using 'emotions', which doesn't really rhyme that much with 'mastery of cold sience' and a short-lived, bitter and jealious race.

>>50433144
>Using a demon means you dont come into contact with chaos
Wat?

>>50433159
He's using that Yiff logic he is.

>>50433159
Nah. Fenris spirits are not daemons. They are just Warp entities. There are tons of those that are not a part of Chaos.

>>50433185
Ahahhhhahhahah

>>50433197
I'm just saying that if I had the pick between getting devoured by a non-Chaos malign entity and a Achaon daemon I would go with the former. Sure, it will still be a hellish experience, but it wont be as hellish as being part of the Chaos gods.

>>50433223
>and a Chaos daemon*

>>50433148
>"There are many applications for the Pharos technology. Pure weapons. Energy beams that could atomise targets layer by layer, field generators that might push an object out of phase with reality around it. And the possibilities for machine-interfacing are profound. All by tuning the quantum state of matter empathically."
t.Barbra-Ann Dantioch

Guy Haley said he tried to make it obvious who he wanted to imply built the Pharos, I'm taking Dantioch rattling off the Necron armoury and allluding to their origin to be it.
But yes.
Nercron-esque. Emphasis on esque. Because nothing is certain. And if they did build it, they clearly built it before they became The Necrons.

>>50433223
The irony of a SW fan arguing for communing with demons. Never did I ever think Id see this.

>>50433185
what

>>50429276
he's also a SJW

>>50433266

ADB could write a pretty good female primarch novel.

>>50433255
I never said it was safe or a good idea. I just think it's better to have a buffer between you and the realm of Chaos.

>>50433297
A demon is the realm of chaos. There is no difference between the two. You have nothing to justify any of this.

>>50433297
You are correct ofcourse. I mean, chaos sorcerers do it all the time ! They make dozens of daemonic pacts for more power and control

>>50433316
Non-Chaos daemons Warp spirits is a thing. Like the Enslavers.

>>50432379
I'd say the emperor fighting horus, but that's probably more of a IT HAS TO BE THIS WAY moment

>>50433345
Enslavers are not demons and have physical bodies. They are not the same thing at all.

>>50433345
First of all, Enslavers are not spirits. They have natural physical forms and can exist in real space naturally unlike daemons.

Second, Warp is Chaos and Chaos is the Warp. The two are indivisible. So says that Chaos dex.

>>50433345
>Enslaver outbreaks rek the Old Ones, scares the C'Tan to bed, helps bring about the Dark Age and is a reason the E wants to control humanity psychic development
>not just another race used as tools by the Chaos powers

m8 chaos is the warp and the warp is chaos, trucking with it is a bad idea in all ways, a 'benign warp entitiy' is a daemon having a laugh.

>Thousand Sons tutelaries
>Friendly, funny, happy little pets
>oh no wait they're actually fucking daemons

>>50433120
I thought they were already on their way over when the pharos blew up, as the scout that can see them says they "linger in the void between galaxies" or something like that

>>50433432
The Pharos is a BL retcon with no supporting evidence outside of the book. Ignoring it and going by the codex fluff changes absolutely nothing about the setting.

>>50433406
Well, according to Lexicanum there is a category called Warp Entities. I just figured the Fenris spirits would be something like Astral Hounds or something.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warp#Warp_entities

>>50433432
He was getting precog dreams. The last line of Pharos is literally
>Slowly, glacially, the great devourer shifted its course

>>50433454
A warp entity is just an expression of chaos that isn't a daemon, a daemon being an entity born out of one the four powers, with the pros and cons of being tied to their patron/origin power.
Most of the fluff around the named ones you posted a link to hasn't been updated since 1st Edition, the concept of chaos/the warp has changed since then.
Also note that every one of those things kills humans, either as prey or for funsies.

>>50433281
he would only do it if she can be black and trans too

>>50433521
Well okay, if you say so. I'm still under impression that there are different levels of malignment to them, like the Eldar gods that's not Slaanesh.

>>50433453
>codex fluff

The codex fluff says nothing about what attracted Nids to the galaxy.

And ignoring stuff doesn't make it any less canon.

Plus you are lying. The Pharos thing was referenced before the book came out. In an old WD lore article, the reason why the Scythes of the Emperor's homeworld was attacked was sad to be something Girlyman did in the HH.

Also the movement of Behemoth is shown to be different than the rest of the Hive Fleets. It went in a straight line following the beacon that summoned the nids to the galaxy.

>>50433563
Found the excerpt

>THE DEATH OF SOTHA

>One of the first major Imperial worlds to fall to the Tyranid invasion was Sotha, the Chapter planet of the Scythes of the Emperor. Speculation as to why the Tyranids headed for that world in particular is rife, but common consensus connects the fate of the world to the machinations of Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines during the Horus Heresy.

-Codex Apocrypha (White Dwarf)

>>50432623
>Seems to be very risky though, with all the big template weapons running around.
>I am unsure how much chameoline and scout armour would help.
Scatter them about?

>>50433599
Sure, 1k points to start out is a small point number anyway.

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Most underplayed Legions?

Most played Legions?

>>50433608
I'm curious about this too.

>>50433608
>Most underplayed Legions?
Iron Hands, White Scars, and Space Wolves.
>Most played Legions?
Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion(maybe), and the Death Guard. All in the strawpoll.

What do you think I should get next for my taghmata, something fun to paint and to use
>macrocarid
>primaris lightning
>load of ursarax

I already have a well rounded army, plenty of thallax, thanatars, castellax, myrmidons etc, got a krios venator and a triaros as well.

>>50432352
Pretty much

>Big E realized that the primarchs are basically "greek gods" in the worst sense
>figures throwing them a big party (Triumph of Ullanor) might keep them in good spirits long enough for him to circumvent the warp
>...
>the warp is not circumvented

The SM being canned is possible given Master of Mankind's portrayal of the Custodes and Big E's attitude towards the SM/Primarches.

>>50431863

There's another way too
> get a thin styrene strip that'll fit inside a mechanical penicl (I believe it's .18mm), put inside said pencil, you now have a strip dispensor
>put dab of suplerglue on where you want rivet
>click strip out onto it until you've reached the length you want it to be
>snip
>jobs a goodun

>>50433683
What do you mean by the portrayal of the custodes?

Did not read it.

>>50429486
I had no idea that 'Chumlee' was writing for B.L. / GW. That's crazy! I guess those guns and drugs are finally paying off for him.

>>50428446
When was that?

>>50433704
The Custodes don't particularly like or respect space marines since they view them as imperfect copies of themselves.

It was hinted at that the Custodes played a large part in the elimination of the thunder warriors back in the day (also confirming that the Custodes have been around a lot longer than the SM).

The sole named space marine of the book observes the Custodes absolutely slaughtering traitor marines and thinks to himself "wow, these would be the exact guys needed to kill off space marines I tell you what."

At certain points it almost seems like the Emperor prefers them over to Primarchs (refers to Primarchs by number when talking to the Custodes and shares a lot more with them than the Primarchs).

>>50433805
Well, that they were longer around was known a long time as they were his guard while he was experimenting and doing all kinds of stuff.

Also he spent milennia with them as well as them being probably gene-fucked to be super loyal to him....so it makes sense.

Would have been easier if he had not lost them.

But I do not know how hammy they are with Emps inhumanity.

But yeah, gene-engineered war-maniacs who cant do anything else..?

Phew, it points all towards emps killing them off and turning everyone into golden super-men through psychic fuckery later.

>>50433847
>But yeah, gene-engineered war-maniacs who cant do anything else..?
You do know that the EC's thing also included them not being war 24/7 right, that they dabbled in fine arts?
>Phew, it points all towards emps killing them off
An unwarranted fear of Horus that ADB did in the novel just to make Emps look like a jerk because the Emperor still needed marines.

>>50433805
>refers to Primarchs by number when talking to the Custodes and shares a lot more with them than the Primarchs
fucking hell i hate the new fluff so fucking much
we had a story about paternal love, duty and deceit by the chaos gods and they turned it into "local autistic demi god ruins everything by being an emotionless retard"

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Do you guys think they'll start selling Custodians and Sisters separately like the previous board game? I'm hoping they'll release more variants of Custodians, perhaps Forgeworld, that give options for more slender looking versions like the artwork (among bolter wielding variants).

But I imagine the new models released are supposed to be how they look now, big, bulky, beefy soldiers compared to the more slender giants they appeared to be in the artwork.

>>50433940
Anon, we have a final book spoiler straight from the The First Expedition.
>Number XVI bestrides the broken body of Number IX. The Emperor looks blankly at them, sighs, goes SSGSS and blasts XVI with a Psychic Kamehameha so powerful the Chaos Gods themselves go ‘Damn’

>>50433940
Its easy to fix Anon BL simply isn't canon. Just go read the afterword and I guarantee you'll feel the same.

>>50433964

Doesn't he refer to them as numbers purely when they're in vat machines?

I am glad that they going to retcon the bit about the Emperor holding back because he "wuvs" Horus. It never made sense. The Emperor being stronger than the combined powers of Chaos Gods never made sense.

Makes the setting better to have the Emperor being really bitched slapped around by the Chaos Gods through Horus and then saved by either Olly or whatever.

>>50433989
t. Literal Retard

>>50433985
No, he refers to them by numbers all the time when they are not around.

He calls them "It" or "Weapons that pretend they are my sons".

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>>50433989
Anon, I don't even.

>>50433998
Alan Merret (IP manager) and Laurie Goulding agree with me. They wanted to recton that story since forever. I mean it doesn't fit the internal logic of the setting.

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>>50433985
>mfw he cites "Pinocchio" as part of the reason why he's cool with them calling him "dad"

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>>50434025
>I mean it doesn't fit the internal logic of the setting.
But it does. It shows that the Emperor has a heart.
>>50434032
Are you telling me the truth? You best not be lying to me.

>>50434025
Stop roleplaying as the OP image.

>>50434042
>Emperor has a heart.

No, for the Emperor to be what he is, he must be heartless.

And read the goddamn novel, you stupid parrot. Stop relying on people feeding you fluff crackers.

Stop responding to Carnac. He keeps coming into the general because you won't stop giving him (you)s.

>>50433989
Yeah the obsession with the Emperor being a 'good guy' who 'loves' baffles me. Most of the time fans would tell you that in 40k no-one's good and everyone's just an asshole looking out for themselves but then whenever the Emperor is represented as a monumentally manipulative asshole people cry that he needs to show more 'wuv' and 'compassion'. Weird.

Very glad the Emperor is being clearly demonstrated as nowhere near as powerful as the Chaos Gods. Made no sense at all that a bunch of random Shamans getting together before humans even have a psychic awakening could produce someone on the level of a Warp God.

>>50434058
nice bait

>>50434076
Don't tell me what to do.
You are not my dad.

>>50434058
I agree. Why do so many people want the Emperor to have a heart?

His whole thing is callous disregard for individual existence in order to further a meta-goal he believes in and doesn't care if others want or don't want he'll drag them kicking and screaming towards it.

What the fuck is with all this complaining about him not loving the Primarchs enough?

>>50434008
ADBs daddy issues strike again

>>50434109
I know, right?

From what I can guess, people here either project/self insert themselves as the Emperor or actually buy his brand of bullshit. Which is ironic. You are not suppose to see the Emperor as the good guy or cheer for him.

>>50434058
>>50434143
>A Thousand Sons, when Magnus does his bad thing:
>"The Emporer alone recognised this rapturous angel, and his heart broke to see it."
Christians 0 - Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1

>>50433733

Deliverance lost

The raven guard only failed because 5 alphas and Omegon infiltrated their legion, sabotaged their efforts and stole the primarch gene mix for themselves.

>>50434283
Is it ever explained what they did with the primarch gene code?

They clearly didn't give it to Horus or it would of won them the heresy

Did they use it to create the grey knights?

>>50434143
>You are not suppose to see the Emperor as the good guy or cheer for him.
Only because BL is so shit at writing. And because ADB has daddy issues.

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>>50434042
I've got no nails
To hold me down
To make me fret, or make me frown
I had nails
But now I'm free
There are no nails in me

>>50434283
>5
It was considerably more than that. Why are ALfags such insufferable liars?

>>50434319

They flat out say they only gave Horus (and Fabius Bile) a small part of it.

They haven't elaborated on what the Alphas did with it but since the Alphas have been declared exterminated by the Inquisition multiple times before reemerging, it makes sense that they can just grow new space marines in a matter of days

>>50434370
>believing that they've been exterminated

That's what they want you to think, even the inquisition knows it

>>50434347
>more
Actually I think it might only have been 4 AL that infiltrated the RG, not 5.

>>50434414
Oh fuck off already. I actually checked the book before making my first post because I wondered if I remembered wrong. I didn't.

>>50434347

It was what, 1 sergeant, 2 bolter marines and a praetor? They found some more afterwards but they didn't do anything to help the main goal.

Omegon brought in some buddies to help extract them, although that ended up not being necessary

>>50434442
It's okay, he doesn't understand what infiltrated means.

>>50434107
>Most of the time fans would tell you that in 40k no-one's good and everyone's just an asshole looking out for themselves but then whenever the Emperor is represented as a monumentally manipulative asshole people cry that he needs to show more 'wuv' and 'compassion'. Weird.
It's really not that weird. Originally, the emperor was supposed to be the good guy in a bad world. That is very much so what king and priestly intended.
That is actually interesting and adds depth to the setting, as it adds deep and horrible tragedy as the imperium commits acts of murder, genocide and destruction, very evil acts, so as to continue its survival. The emperor, the good guy, has to sit and watch as his imperium becomes what it is so that man can survive. It emphasises just how dark and grim the future is, and makes horus' betrayal that much worse, as horus, corrupted by chaos and not fully aware of what he was doing, ensured that the only beacon of goodness, of hope, of a better tomorrow, the only being who could rival and fight against the dark powers that lurk in immaterium, was snuffed out, sacraficing himself for all mankind, damning any chance of a better future. That's good writing, that's interesting, that's what makes 40k 40k.
BL fluff on the other hand is nowhere near as well written or interesting, instead it's just "hurr durr the emps is bad, chaos is good and will win, everything you know and love is gone, everyone is a retard hurr durr".

>>50434440

I think Omegon mentions that he could mobilize a few dozen (?) to help with the plan but that's including all the back up Alphas around Deliverance rather than the guys wearing raven guard faces.

Anyway, point is that it comes down to 4 hydra dudes in the apothecarian who completely btfo of Corax

>>50434460
Just fuck off with lying and making thing up carnac, nobody likes you. Warseer's coming back soon, I'm sure you'd fit in much better over there.

>>50434460
Corax is like Magnus tier levels of jobber, I don't know why he doesn't get more shit

>ooh all my marines are dead ooh I accidentally created werewolf marines ooh I'm so sad

Fuck off Corax, Vulkan lost pretty much his entire legion, died a few times (although he did sort of go insane tbf), and do you know what he did? he LIVES

>>50434143
People project themselves WAY too much into the Emperor.

>>50434336
What? No, when was the Emperor ever in the last ten years 'good'? He was always just as morally ambiguous as the rest of the game.

For crying out loud he literally believes in manifest destiny despite the concept itself having no rational basis. Seriously wish fans would make up their minds, do they want a grimdark setting of 'nobodies good' or a 'Emperor is Superman' setting.

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GUESS WHO'S A VALID PRIDE OF THE LEGION TROOPS CHOICE!?

>>50434336
Nope, Rick Priestly and other developers say this. And This guy is pure GW.

>>50434454
When is Chaos ever good? I never read HH and think 'chaos good', I actually think they do a bad job of even showing how seductive Chaos is.

Also, sorry, the Emps is evil for ages. Pretty clear from beginning of HH books that he's pretty fond of genocide, slavery, rape and anything else you can think of as long as he gets what he wants out of the deal. Don't see how the Emps was ever 'good', he was just another Orks/Chaos Gods equivalent thing, a being who wanted to rule the galaxy and eradicate all other life in existence.

If you are literally anyone but a human who meets the Emp's stringent requirements for 'human' then the Emp's is as evil as the Orks, the Crons or the Chaos Gods. He's coming to wipe out everyone and everything.

Emps was never a 'good guy'. No-one really is. No-one that powerful is ever going to be good, they're going to do evil simply through the exercise fo their power. I think its kind of silly to break down the Emperor into something like a 'good guy' and make 40k a story of something as simple as good versus evil.

>>50434543
Nice photoshop anon

>>50434595
It's legit.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294656-iron-warriors-tactics/page-37

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>>50434483

Looks like it was about 8, they picked up 4 more nameless guys later.

How many exactly did you think attacked?

>>50434590
The Emperor's ultimate goal is/was making sure humanity would be safe forever from the predatations of Chaos. What you're saying is that makes him the bad guy. Yeah right.

The 'evilness' of the Emperor is and should just be that he is willing to do 'almost' anything to achieve that goal. The fact that there is an 'almost' is the difference between the Emperor and Ahriman for example, and what makes the Emperor the 'good' guy and Ahriman the 'bad' guy : Ahriman is willing to do anything to achieve his goals. It is a kind of 'lesser of two evils' way, but I'd choose the possible chance at defeating chaos over being eternal slaves that suffer for the amusement of the gods of chaos any time.

>>50434543
>is it in an FAQ?
>no?
>doesn't count

>>50434671
So Sky Hunter Squadrons are Lords of War?

>>50434483

Do you need help

>>50434668
None of that changes that the Emps isn't good. That just means you think he's better than Chaos which, sure, you can feel free to think that.

However, the Emps is just like the Chaos Gods to any non-'human' (and I use the quotes because he doesn't even strictly permit all humans) group in the galaxy, he's gonna exterminate them regardless of anything as the Diasporex learned.

He's 'good' (and even then only if you buy into a certain form of Utilatarianism no modern philosopher would) only from the perspective of a human he'd allow to live long enough to see the fruits of his efforts. To everyone else he's as bad as Chaos, the Crons, the Orks, the Nids. He's just another Xenos looking to kill everyone and everything which isn't like him.

Like I said, I think selling 40k as a clash of 'good' versus 'evil' isn't accurate. But enjoy it how you want.

>>50434711
>However, the Emps is just like the Chaos Gods to any non-'human' (and I use the quotes because he doesn't even strictly permit all humans) group in the galaxy, he's gonna exterminate them regardless of anything as the Diasporex learned.
>He's 'good' (and even then only if you buy into a certain form of Utilatarianism no modern philosopher would) only from the perspective of a human he'd allow to live long enough to see the fruits of his efforts. To everyone else he's as bad as Chaos, the Crons, the Orks, the Nids. He's just another Xenos looking to kill everyone and everything which isn't like him.
Are you seriously implying there's anything wrong with trying to kill the orks, a race who only cares about waging war and destruction, the nids, who want to destroy all life, or the soulless necrons? Meanwhile, the emps also tried to play nice with the eldar, who promptly gave him the finger. Emps didn't want to kill everyone, they forced him to.

>>50434762
How did the Diasporex force him? Or human nations which would rather be independent? Or Tarellians? Or Interex?

Also when did the Eldar give him the finger?

Besides the Emperor had the standing order that all Xenos were to be exterminated regardless of being dangerous or not. So he clearly didn't need to be 'forced' to make the decision, he made it a standing policy of the Great Crusade that all non-humans encountered be eradicated.

Remember Fulgrim and Horus' men protested when they attempted negotiations with aliens because they pointed out it was against the orders of the Emperor to do anything but kill Xenos on sight.

Of course the Emperor is as bad as Orks. Orks kill all Xenos they meet, the Emperor kills all Xenos they meet. If you're a Xenos you'd rather not meet either and would wish both dead since both want to exterminate you. Pretty simple.

>>50434762
Anon there's nothing bad about liking the Imperium but acting as if the Emps isn't just another xenocidal warlord like all the other characters is just shilling. 40k runs on everyone being xenocidal Warlods Emps isn't different.

>>50434793
Except that's all BL HH fluff. I don't disagree that emps is a bad guy in that. My point is that fluff is shit.

>>50434711
>Leader of one race evil in eyes of different race
Well no shit. Or are you now going to tell me Eldrad is a good guy to humanity ?

I'm sensing a shift in goalposts here however ...

>>50434793
Didn't you ever read that Eldar would and do sacrifice or fight humans without even the slightest of hesitation if it would mean a single eldar doesn't cut his finger ?

And also don't forget that the distinction between craftworld eldar and dark eldar isn't that appearent to other races.

>>50434810
Oh seems there was a monumental misunderstanding then. If we're not discussing BL HH fluff then there's, to my knowledge, barely anything to say on the Emperor to be honest.

But, sure, I can agree I don't like BL HH much, thought the idea was nice but not the execution.

>>50434811
You clearly didn't get me goalposts if you thought there was a 'shift'.

Original goalposts are, and remain; calling the Emperor 'good' is dumb. 40k ain't about good versus bad.

As for your specific inquiry, about Eldrad, I'll say this; Eldrad is a bad guy, he'd happily condemn anything to destruction if it'd save the Eldar.

But he is marginally better than the Emperor simply because if Eldrad didn't need to destroy a race he wouldn't, as shown in the Eldar Empire not genociding on principle, and thus he's marginally better.

Sum: Eldrad is evil, but not as Evil as Emps (who's more Ork-level in that he aims to kill all non-human life in the galaxy).

>>50434845
>And also don't forget that the distinction between craftworld eldar and dark eldar isn't that appearent to other races.

It's apparent to the Emperor unless he is a retard. Eldard says he knew the Emperor personally.

>>50434845
Yes, that's right, Eldar are evil and will commit atrocties to survive.

To be absolutely clear; everyone is evil to an extent in 40k.

However, Eldar are marginally better than the Imperium since they do not have a goal of eradicating all non-Eldar life in the galaxy.

It's simple; if I'm a non-human I know the Imperium aims to kill me no-matter what. If I'm a non-Eldar I know the Eldar would only kill me if they felt it was the only way to save themselves. Hence I have a higher chance of survival with the Eldar than I do with the Imperium.

To be clear; this doesn't make Eldar 'good', as I'm reiterating there are no good guys in 40k, but does put them lower down on the evil ladder than the Imperium. Simply by merit of not having an end goal of xenocide of all non-Eldar life.

Also, to be clear, I'm discussing only Exodites and Craftworld Eldar here (only Ulthwe really too).

>>50434875

>eldrad is evil

If it came down to murdering some sub-Eldar degenerates or watching everyone you've ever known and cared about be tormented by literal daemons for eternity, are you really evil if you choose the former?

>>50434853
>thought the idea was nice but not the execution
Yep. Went on for too long and took out all ambiguity. Like the emperor thing. A well written series would have made both arguements viable: portray the emperor's vision for humanity, a birght future full of hope and goodness, show the emperor as charismatic and kind. Then on the flipside contrast with his genocidal methods, his aloofness, his inhumanity, his manipulations.
Instead we got what we got.

HH should have only been about the major battles and maybe a handful of novels to flesh out the stuff in between. BL was a mistake

>>50434903
yes

>>50434903
We'd probably have to have an enormously long discussion about this. Simpler for me to say that I don't feel uncomfortable at all calling everyone in 40k evil to differing extents.

Eldrad is evil. Not Emperor evil, not The Beast evil, not Khorne evil but still evil.

>>50434908
>Like the emperor thing. A well written series would have made both arguements viable: portray the emperor's vision for humanity, a birght future full of hope and goodness

Fuck that. A grimdark setting shouldn't pander for HFY/Self insertfags.

You will have your grimdark and you will like it. This ain't Star Wars.

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>>50434899
> if I'm a non-human I know the Imperium aims to kill me no-matter what.

>>50434793
Do you not know the lore? Humanity tried to reason with Xenos long ago, but ended up betrayed or outright attacked most of the time. There are actually very few, but they are there, Xenos planets/Empires within the Imperium that aren't kill on sight, though you don't hear much about them.

Example being the Xenos the Black Templars had no idea what to do with since they were worshipping the Emperor, so they just destroyed their churches just in case and left.

>>50434908
Well...I do agree with some of that. But to be honest I have some pretty big problems with the BL HH separate to that as well.

I disliked the beginning of, what I call, too much 'DBZ'ing in BL HH (which carried over into an atrocious Vulkan V The Beast fight later) which just personally irks me.

Master of Mankind just takes this fullblown and the Emps becomes effectively a Super Saiyan Blue with his waves of fire and teleport spam. Half expect him to name his attacks eventually.

But yes, I agree on the core point.

>>50434945

I think you could only call him evil if you have some absolute moral frame of reference to compare him to.

I think Eldrad is a smart dude put in a really, really shitty situation and unlike most people in 40k he at least is doing something with vaguely good intentions.

Not saying he's moral, but evil might be pushing it

>>50434951
They are a rather odd exception, aren't they?

Still considering we know they're used in limited numbers only, have questionable sapience, I don't really see the point you're making.

The Imperium doesn't kill Grox either but that hardly changes the equation now does it?

>>50435001

>>50434959


But regarding Grox, they're just Lizard Space Cows. Non-Sapient Xenos are just animals.

>>50434959
Actually, the intrex and the other human-alien civilization were prospering and doing their things in harmony. Then came the Imperium and shat all over them just because.

One of the alien-human civilzation last words were "We just wanted to be left alobe". Did the Imperium respect that? No, they hunted them down to the last fleet.

There is another example of Eldar exodites and humans living together in harmony. Vulkan burned the planet down because what's happening there is harmful to the ideals of the Imperium. The Emperor was pleased with the slaughter.

>Xenos planets/Empires within the Imperium that aren't kill on sight

Bullshit.

Only the Eldar are treated like that mostly because they are too strong to mess with.

>>50434959
This all sounds like pretty sketchy stuff which wouldn't hold up to modern canon.

First off humanity did not reason with 'Xenos' since they have exterminated numerous Xenos they did not even know existed at the time of the Age of Strife.

If what you're looking for is an admission that evil Xenos exist that's easy; they exist.

However, we also know non-violent Xenos exist and the Emperor wants those exterminated too. The Diasporex are the easy example.

So I'm afraid none of this changes anything. Also is this now an argument that the Imperium doens't kill Xenos on sight? Because to my knowledge the fluff has for some time now been consistent that the Imperium's end goal is the eradication of all non-human life in the galaxy.

At the very least accordung to BL HH this is the Emperor's explicit goal.

>>50434951
>>50435001
Everyone loves my neighbour jokaero.

>>50434951
Non-sapient.

>>50434990
Eldrad is certainly among the least evil character in the setting, only certain Tau characters will beat him out.

He's still evil but, yes, definitley among the most moral in a setting where 'most moral' is not a high bar.

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>>50435001

>>50435024
To my knowledge Jokaero only have questionable Sapience. Additionally we know their use is limited to within the Inqusition and Rogue Traders and, even then, not wholly accepted by the Imperium as the Death Watch's attack on their Space ship showed.

But I'm not really sure what we're discussing now? That Jokaero are cute? Because I agree with that point whole-heartedly.

>>50435025
I haven't read the book where Vulkan does that, but isn't it because he has a murder-boner for Eldar?

>>50431493
Orks are off the list.

The whole gay Beast shit showed the Imperium triumped over the Orks if barely and at great cost.

Necrons are still divided in dynasties though and so far their greatest weapons haven't done as much damage as the orks or tyranids to the imperium. Also they do shit like Blood Angels alliance and Grey Knights business trading tesseracts.

>>50435039
to be fair most of the named IG characters that aren't pask easily beat him on that ladder
though i admit that's easy because they don't have such a high rank in the grand scheme of things , with the exception of creed

>>50435041
This!

Thank you for bringing it to my attention again anon.

This is a mystery I really want solved. The Watchers seem completely anomalous and there is so little commentary on them. They are a fascinating, but sui generis, mystery.

But...like I said, they're clearly anomalous. Like pointing out the one Jewish Officer Hitler intervened to protect because he was Hitler's commanding officer in WW1 is evidence Hitler loved all Jews.

Still I do wish we'd have the Emperor sit down and talk with the little buggers, I'd love to hear how that goes.

>>50435037
Jokaero are definitely sapient. Building their own ships and shooting down Deathwatch ships when attacked?

>>50435057
yeah because his home planet lived in terror of deldar raiders
whihc is a pretty fucking good reason to hate the pointy eared pricks for all eternity to fair , especially considering vulkan's character

>>50435068
To be fair the Beast was described by the Eldar as 'a far cry from their true strength' and Eldrad implies at the end of the Beheading that the Orks might still 'return to their true purpose', so Orks are hardly off the list.

>>50431588
Except the part when almost the majority of 40k's admittedly crappy books and fluff detail spess marines curb stomping their enemies until recently.

Authors can imply anything they want, but when space mooks are punching aliens gods in the face and winning stupidly huge battles that certainly changes the tone.

>>50435072
Ah well...this is now tricky ground.

You see on the one hand you're right; Eldrad caused the 2nd War of Armageddon, that probably puts him over Pask and Harker for example.

But, on the other hand, Eldrad would spare women, children and innocents whenever he can, whereas all IG characters if they encountered, for example, a refugee camp of civilian women and children would butcher them all.

So...its tough. They're comparable in principle, but if all we care about is body count then, yes, they're better.

>>50434947
>Fuck that. A grimdark setting shouldn't pander for HFY/Self insertfags.
Except that does niether of those things. If emps is good then his fall makes the setting even more tragic and dark, as any hope for good is immobile and undying, and if emps is bad then it makes the setting dark by showing there was never any good.
Either way 40k remains grimdark, while offering a choice in what type you want: a setting where good has no power or one where good never existed

>>50435057
He murdered the humans too when he realized that

That the humans on the world were actually descendants from kidnapped people of his homeworld. His homeworld was attacked by Dark Eldar and his father was killed by the female Archon. A lot of his people were kidnapped. These people would be saved by Eldar and then the Eldar would settle them on an exodite world to live peacefully alongside exodite. The Eldar even gave the humans the Archon to punish to show them that she wasn't a monster but just flesh and blood like them. When Vulkan realized this, he killed everything on the planet because these humans would never accept the Imperium that killed their alien saviours

Vulkan forms an obsession with that world and he is found defending it during the Beast invasion.

>>50435078
This does not require sapience. The Jokaero have seemingly innate capacity for technology.

Not to say they aren't sapient, simply that what you're describing doesn't mean they 'must' be sapient.

>>50435078
Not any more sapient than bees building a nest and defending it.

>>50435077
gotta agree with you there anon
kinda fascinated by the little guys aswell
they've been taking care of the lion so if he does end up being the first primarch to come back we'll get some more fluff on them hopefully

as for xenos in the imperium the emps wanted an empire to last . the age of strife proved that xenos were all to keen to pounce on humanity as soon as it was weak. he could not risk that happening again. it is the same reason why he did not allow humanity outside of the empire neither
i find it understandable though i can see why others would not

>>50435087
This logic is flawed; this means that the moment I suffer harm from individuals from a group I identify that I should hate the entire group.

By this logic all humans should be killing each other since we have, almost certainly, caused harm in the form of identifiable groups to each other.

Besides Vulkan murdering a child was actually a big pity to me. One of my other problems with the BL HH fluff was that I had hoped some Primarchs, Sangy or Vulky, would be portrayed as non-xenocidal.

>>50435068
>so far their greatest weapons haven't done as much damage as the orks or tyranids to the imperium.

Two super weapon annihilated whole sectors in less than a few months. The destructive capacity of the Necrons is second only to Chaos.

>Also they do shit like Blood Angels alliance and Grey Knights business trading tesseracts.

Tried of your shit. Read "Word of the Silent King". The Silent King basically manipulated the Blood Angels to be his cannon fodder. Tricking them to bleed their forces dry while the Necrons didn't expend much effort.

And the alliance with the Grey Knights ended.

>>50435098
Agreed (with a heavy heart). As a player of Blood Angels I often feel ashamed of how absolutely biased Fluff is on most counts towards the Imperium (although I should state founding Astartes Chapters more specifically).

Orks, Chaos and Eldar in particular seem to inevitably only exist to lose to Marines.

Tau and Nids, at least, are doing okay.

Still I would love some more serious defeats to be suffered by the main Chapters, it'd build them more than having them endlessly win in my opinion.

>>50435138
They came with the Rock, and the Dangles try to pretend they don't exist. New recruits who mess with the Watchers disappear.

>>50435140
>This logic is flawed; this means that the moment I suffer harm from individuals from a group I identify that I should hate the entire group.

It's true, this is experience, not a flaw.
If niggers keep shooting you, you are intelligent to be wary of niggers.

>>50434401
Well the Primarch gene is probably helping them do that.
>make billions of little clone Alpharius mini primarchs and spread them everywhere humanity loyal or heretical lives
>humanity gets a general boost and the Aloha Legion succeeds in increasing their control and influence of the galaxy.

>>50435115
I did not know this...thank you anon this is actually very interesting.

Drops my opinion of Vulkan even lower.

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>>50435112
>whereas all IG characters if they encountered, for example, a refugee camp of civilian women and children would butcher them all.

>>50435170
Then we have to get into the semantics now.

What do you mean 'wary'? Do you mean 'exterminate on sight'? Or do you mean 'pay attention to in case of trouble'?

Also how far back do you go? Must all Xhosa or individuals of Xhosa descent exterminate members of Zulu or Sotho descent due to wars from the past?

This requires a lot of clarification if you're going to stipulate 'being attacked by individuals from group A means I am allowed to kill all members of Group A I meet on sight'

>>50435197
Why...wouldn't they? They believe in the extermination of all non-human life? I am frankly confused.

For example when retaking Tau worlds during the original Damocles Crusade they eradicated all colonists and life thereon. I mean...you do realize they only take prisoners to hand over to the Inquistion/Admech for study.

I am honestly wondering what you think they would do?

>>50435203
>What do you mean 'wary'? Do you mean 'exterminate on sight'? Or do you mean 'pay attention to in case of trouble'?

Depends on context.
Since I'm just a guy who is not involved in a race war then it's a simple be wary.
If I was a warlord created to make the galaxy safe for humans it would be KOS.

>Also how far back do you go?

Your own experiences and the experiences of those that you trust.

>>50435140
poisoned mnm analogy
not like the regular eldar's behavior helps human-xenos relation along

>>50435247
What's the rational basis for your distinction between 'warlord' and 'just a guy' changing the outcomes?

If context matters in this case why does the context of the races you meet not matter? What's the rational argument for maintaining context in certain cases but removing it in others.

Who defines 'safe' and 'humans'? Are all 'humans' onboard with your definition of 'safe'.

Are humans exempt? If a group of humans has injured you in the past then, by this logic, must you not eradicate all humans on sight to fulfil the requirement of being 'wary'?

If 'your experience' matters does this then mean that someone who lives longer is entitled to more 'killing on sight' then someone who lives 'shorter'. Also if the experience of those you 'trust' matters what do you do when no consensus emerges among those you trust? Do you sort them by value of trustworthiness? Is this always a hard hierarchy?

>>50435252
If you use that analogy to the full logical extent then we should never interact with anyone.

Obviously anyone at any time could be trying to kill us. Clearly we employ degress to determine levels of realistic threat.

The existence of threat among individuals equating instantly to the extermination of any group those individuals are 'percieved' to be a part of instantly leads to the logical conclusion that all humans must attempt to exterminate ourselves.

Which, if you want that, that's fine for you. Just no philospher of any major import would agree and I'm more inclined to agree with them than an anon on the internet.

>>50435223
most if not all of them are shown to not be dogmatic at all
>they
what named character took part in the damocles crusade ? and aside from that who gave the fucking orders and who carried them out ?
it wasn't the named IG characters (i should specify i meant the ones in the codex ) i can tell you that

>>50435342
You're argument is, to be clear, then that because Pask/Harker and such have never been explicitly shown killing civilians that they would not do so if they encountered Xenos civilians.

What, exactly, do you think they would do then? I am honestly curious.

>>50435158
Only a couple sectors blown up by the Necrons star war machines isn't a big deal. Hell the Imperium even utilized some captured Necron tech like the Cadian Pylons or the Phaos to help them as well.

When your evil robo skellington can't even unite and the leader of your entire race even needs to convince blood angels to do some basic grunt work for him, instead of exterminating them all.

Don't get bitchy at me because all those suggested plot devices like millions of hidden tomb worlds and even more ultra advanced necron siperweapons haven't panned out yet. Get better fluff and then come back to me.

>>50435284
>What's the rational basis for your distinction between 'warlord' and 'just a guy' changing the outcomes?

Warlords have more clout.
It's feasible for a warlord to create change positive to his ideals.

>If context matters in this case why does the context of the races you meet not matter? What's the rational argument for maintaining context in certain cases but removing it in others.

Context always matters, I never said you should remove context from any situation.

>Who defines 'safe' and 'humans'?

You do.

>Are all 'humans' onboard with your definition of 'safe'.

Irrelevant. You have power in this situation and can only act according to experience.

>Are humans exempt?

You ingroup is. What you judge that to be is up to you,

>If 'your experience' matters does this then mean that someone who lives longer is entitled to more 'killing on sight' then someone who lives 'shorter'.

No one is entitled to anything.

>Also if the experience of those you 'trust' matters what do you do when no consensus emerges among those you trust? Do you sort them by value of trustworthiness? Is this always a hard hierarchy?

Ultimately it comes back to you.

>>50435161
Speaking as Admech player, I think it helps a lot to have faction-specific goals that are separated from outright victory to make the factions seem suitably grimdark without jobbing all the time.

Take the Admech. They are perfectly willing to accept horrific material and civilian losses to gain more data on their foes and archaotech. This means that they can lose campaigns when required and still count themselves as winning, which is nice.

They have a bit of fluff in one of their codexes where they help a Knight House to grind their way through pretty much everything Biel-tan has to stop them, but when they have enough information pull back and leave the Knights to die.

That is a loss for the Imperium, but a win for both Admech and Eldar, which keep the players happy without breaking the "slow destruction of humanity" theme.

Also, Damocles. Not saying that wasn't a giant clusterfuck of hilariously bad fluff, but the Admech were forced back and lost the outright battles, but stole the data from a Stormsurge and got to test their new superweapon, so I don't feel that my army actually lost there.

>>50435318
>humans
anon we're not talking about humans here , we're talking about a different species altogether
sentient to be sure but very alien in their thinking
Eldar have a biological neck for decadence and this lead them to the whole torture shtick
even the exodites which would gladly sacrifice billions of humans to save a few of their own and on top of that these guys spawn eldar corsairs to.

if half the lions in the world suddenly started actively hunting and killing people in the ost gruesome way possible you can bet your ass we'dd kill all the crazy ones and closely guard the remaining ones
well in 40k humanity can't spare the guard and the eldar are to dangerous to be left to their own devices as it stands

now they could make an effort here to distance themselves from their commorite cousins. But they don't make an attempt to explain the situation to the imperium at all. to the point where the imperium can't make a clear distinction between them

the emperor reached out to them and offered them a place in his empire, and they refused.
they had a chance and refused it

>>50435377
>Only a couple sectors blown up by the Necrons star war machines isn't a big deal.

It is. Because they are just a tip of iceberg. And do you understand what a sector is? It takes many decades for Imperials and other factors to conquer a whole sector, even a single system. The Necrons conquered two in months.


>When your evil robo skellington can't even unite and the leader of your entire race even needs to convince blood angels to do some basic grunt work for him, instead of exterminating them all.

Actually, the codex says that the Necrons are uniting swiftly. And the Silent King didn't ally with Blood Angels because they needed them. Heck, the short story makes it obvious. He just showed him that the Necrons can be allied with in order to facilitate the Shield of Baal events/

>Get better fluff and then come back to me.

Stop being a trolly child.

>>50435170
Scratch a trumpbot a little and the kkk gayboy underneath surfaces

>>50435487
When did the emperor reach out to them? Source and page number

>>50435649
>gayboy

Homophobe.

>>50435140
Vulkan has a blind spot when it comes to eldar since nocturne was raided by dark eldar
Strange how they can't tell the difference between spikes and black armour and the rainbow nation aspects warriors

>>50435661
i honestly can't remember where i read that
fuck me

>>50435112
>But, on the other hand, Eldrad would spare women, children and innocents whenever he can
what? no

He sacrifices innocents all the time, that's kind of what his prophecy shenanigans are all about. The needs of the few (eldar) outweigh the needs of the many (humans). This is also why the Imperium doesn't fucking trust the eldar. They KNOW they're getting manipulated to save alien skin at the cost of their own flesh and blood.

What was the loyalists excuses for eventually overturning the edict of nikea during the heresy?

>DA: Stopped giving a fuck after encountering the same daemons they met on caliban as they knew psychic powers could kill them best

>WS: never cared about it in the first place

>SW: rune priests aren't psykers they're sorcerers

>IF:? they were with Big E the whole heresy

>BA: Signus was a clusterfuck

>IH: ?

>UM:?

>Sallies: Promethean cult boiiii

>RG: ?

Why is exterminating species that compete in the same niche as you bad?

>>50431602
Mom?

>>50435799
none of them overturned it because none of them used sorcery

>>50434793
You guys are just dancing around the goddamned goalpost

You keep having an argument about good and evil but don't realize you're using different definitions for these words. Both logics are sound if you choose to accept their premises.

Is the emperor evil if you consider that killing life-forms that don't suit your own race means evil? Sure.

Is the emperor good if you consider that killing every life-form that endargers your own is good? Sure.

How hard is that?

>>50435799
UM's reinstating of librarians was all about the practical, Guilliman knew they'd be needed.

>>50435856
But then we have nothing to fight over ! How else are we gonna fill the void between now and Inferno's release ?

>>50435853
Pretty sure nikea was just

>no psykers k lol 'cept navigators they're cool

>>50435881
Plus GM's design for the new Imperium was his own thing and he didn't give a fuck if the Emperor's older design contradicted it.

>>50435881
Fair enough, at what point did they bring them back? After Calth?

I know the only reason that librarian joing the knights errant was because him not using his powers got his brothers killed, so he broke the edict and joined the KE as he felt bad.

>>50435913
That librarian (Rubio btw) didn't only feel bad : the ultrafags he saved turned their backs on him because he broke the edict.

He saved their lives and they were like "Fuck you, you broke rule 4.5.c REEEEEEEEEEEE"

>>50429453
No, gibbing a praetor means the praetor failed to wound with its bucket of I5 AP2 wounds. Most you'll need is an axe to assure mutual destruction. Then a MB is you really want.

>>50435890
Original Nikaea was
>NO SORCERY
Current Nikaea is
>NO USING PSYCHIC POWERS IN THE LEGIONS
Psykers in the wider Imperium have always been fine.

>>50434008
Worse than that
He actually said
“honour the creatures that call themselves my sons. My necessary tools. They feed on glory as if it were a palpable sustenance. Their own glory, of course, no different from the kings and emperors of old. It scarcely crosses their mind that glory matters nothing to me. I could have had a planet’s worth of glory any time I wished it when I walked in the species’ shadow throughout prehistory. Only three of them ever thought to ask why I timed my emergence as I did.”

Excerpt From: Aaron Dembski-Bowden. “The Master of

>>50435944
>Only three of them ever thought to ask why I timed my emergence as I did.
oh hey, that sounds like something actually interesting. I'm guessing he forgot to go into that any more than that line, though?

>>50435989
was thinking the exact same thing

which ones asked do you guys think ?
dorn and sangy for sure
and then ? horus ? girlyman ?

>>50435989
He specifically said that such lore was pointless.

>>50435944
>build yourself a continent-sized palace
>claim you're not interested in glory

>>50436005
Because it establishes positive relationships between the emperor and his primarchs, like we've seen in earlier books and stories?

I guess he would think that shit's pointless.

>>50436002
Guilliman, Ferrus, Magnus, shit possibly even Mort considering he knows more than most primarchs... you could make an argument for just about anyone.

>>50432158
More like setting up age of the emperor great crusade 2.0 as the core worlds reach out to reunite the scattered groups centered around marine homeworlds and first founding legion empires
And this time they will openly use religion because the way to beat chaos is take it and bash it into an image you like and stick to that - in the same way techpriets did with omnissiah
>>50436002
Dorn wouldn't care - most likely guilliman Magnus and the khan as they were more self confident enough to argue

>>50436002
>dorn and sangy for sure

No, Dorn is brainlessly loyal.
There's no particular reason for it to be Sanguinius either.

I'd Horus who was close with the Emperor, the Khan who was skeptical with him and Guilliman who was interested in in state and Empire building.
But as >>50436005 says it was just written as meaningless bait.

>>50436036
>because it portrays a positive father son relationship
Ftfy

>>50435936
Fuck, bet that stung

I bet he was even more pissed when they actually brought librarians back as well. I can see why he decided to stick around with the KE. Hope him and the nemean are bros, they seem like chill guys.

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>>50436054
>>50436051
i feel like the quote
"Do not look to us for kindness. Do not look to us for hope. We are not the kind children of this new age. We are the rocks of its foundation. If you wish hope then look to what we make. If you wish kindness then look to those who will come after us."
implies he has some knowledge about the shit that is going on and what is going to happen

what about vulkan he spend loads of time with the big E on terra

>>50435942
Ah fair enough, I thought I remembered some regular humans in the books not using their powers because of the edict

>>50435937
Not that guy, but what do you mean by this? Melta-bombs can only be used against monstrous creatures, right? And axes don't Insta-kill T4 spess marines?

>>50434695
Yes :(
>>50434671
>The entire FW Customer Service BTFO
>Who cares anyway, they're like 6 dudes and a Joakero

>>50435799
>>RG
Happens a few times on the down-low when necessary. Two examples I can recall are navigating the secret tech(TM) gene base on terra and an interrogation.

I want to find that quote thats Corax' response to Nikea when he was there. it was something along the lines of "We go where we want, and kill who we want how we want. Let the corpse worlds we leave behind be the judge." or something like that but with a bit of 'gothic' in it.

I wake up and there's like 220+ new comments, talking about the Emperor being the good guy or the bad guy.

And that's great, this is the spirit of /HHG/, discussion of things and lore rather than memeposting...but damn it's hard to catch up. I wish I didn't need to sleep.

>>50436152
What I mean is that a praetor will kill that sarge several times over so taking fists in line troop sarges just in case you face a praetor and it whiffs is a bad idea. Take the AA for tanking, a power axe if you want to kill other basic sarges in CC, and then if you want AT take a MB rather than the fist.

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>>50436184
At least something good came out of it.

>>50435388
No, having more power doesn't grant one a rational moral reason to determine what's right and wrong for others.

This seems to more just be about what you would do in a specific context with power, whilst giving no actual justification on rational grounds for why anyone should permit you to have such power.

Additionally if all definitions simply come down to the 'you' in this case then discussion of the point is, in anycase, irrelevant since everything is determined by the 'you' without needing to provide justification thereof.

For example; why is the ingroup exempt?

>>50435465
I agree with the main contention there, that faction-specific goals help, but I still feel that the main Chapters need to be painted as less invincible in the fluff.

>>50436255
Yeah well I don't know what it may be. I'm still trying to catch up!

>>50435487
When did the Emperor offer peace? I am very sure BL HH made clear his position on all aliens was extermination regardless of context.

Besides a statement like 'kill Eldar is right because if they could save some of their own by killing us' enforces a double standard. The Imperium also sacrifices any Eldar life it must to protect itself so enforcing it against the Eldar only is hypocritical.

Besides you're missing the simply logic; The Imperium kills all Xenos on principle, Eldar kill only when they feel it is necessary to preserve the species. Simply using rational odds you have a better chance to survive, as a non-human, with the Eldar than you do as a human.

Its a really simple distinction.

>>50436341
I can sum it up: pro-Dong Hunters of Retcon Library and the rest of us causing a discussion on the morality of the Emperor/Imperials and xenos. Inferno's still two months away.

>>50436269
>No, having more power doesn't grant one a rational moral reason to determine what's right and wrong for others.

People can only decide what is right or wrong for themselves, but only with power can you enforce your interpretation on the world.

>For example; why is the ingroup exempt?

Because you identify with that group, so unless you happen to be self loathing you will love it as you do yourself.

>>50435760
*Sigh* You clearly misunderstood, lets rephrase this;

Eldrad would never kill civilians if he encountered them. If Eldrad fights a battle and in the process meets civilians who he deems do not in anyway advance his cause by dying he would leave them alone. However, he has killed innocents when he felt it necessary to preserve the Eldar species, hence why I stated he's still evil.

Conversely, if the Imperium were fighting on a world and discovered non-human innocents they would exterminate them regardless of advantage or not, they would exterminate on principle.

Its a very simple distinction, but one mirrored between the Eldar Empire and the Imperium. The Eldar Empire never attempted to kill all non-Eldar life in the galaxy and left all civilizations which did not declare war on them in peace to develop as they wished. The Imperium, on the other hand, has the stated aim and goal of the eradication of all non-'human' life in the galaxy.

It really isn't a hard distinction to understand.

>>50435856
If the Emperor is good for killing 'every life-form that endangers you' then he should eradicate the human species since they endanger themselves.

>>50436009
The most secret and most important project in the galaxy kind of needs a huge fortification protecting it, which in turns sits on the most defended planet of them all.
Emps simply ordered to be painted gold, which in my very personal and biased empra-loving opinion would give off the vibe "what a wondrous palace he's got" rather than "I wonder why does he hide in that fortress". Also, if you're rich enough to paint all your stuff golden, why not do so?

Remember in the end the centre of the palace was going to be the Imperial Metro-Webway station.

Imagine it, anon. Not one but Thousands of Imperial Palaces-Metro Stations, built over the blood and bones of dark eldar, and forcing regular Eldar to do more warp jumps! I think only chaosfags would disagree with that vision.

>>50435077
NS germany had many mischlings in the armed forces and in their society in general. jews also had their own districts and advocacy groups, like in berlin, up until the end of the war.

>>50436418
>The Eldar Empire never attempted to kill all non-Eldar life in the galaxy
right, they just enslaved them and hunted them for sport

>>50436369
I'm sure all Eldar (including craftworlders) viewing humanity as vermin means that they wouldn't eradicate us if they had the power to do so.

Let's be real : in any ecosystem if two races compete in the same niche, they will kill the others on sight if they can get away with it. This happens betwen cats and dogs, still happens between humans from different communities in the rainforest, and I'm sure as hell it applies to the Grimdark.

>>50436418
>The Imperium, on the other hand, has the stated aim and goal of the eradication of all non-'human' life in the galaxy.
Not true actually. Only the monodominants belive that.

>>50436430
he was doing a fair bit of that

>>50436454
Human races and ethnicities do this as well. In the modern world there just happens to be state apparatus and spooky ideology stopping it, for the meanwhile.

>>50436409
Alright but you're not giving any rational justification anymore.

Now you're just stating that the reason to do X is because you can compel X.

Its a reality, sure, but that doesn't make it a sound argument. It doesn't provide any moral justification for ones actions. Which is what I assumed we were discussing.

>>50436441
Yes, but that doesn't change the obvious racist character of the regime against Jews. Which was my point. The Watchers are anomalous, not standard.

Besides I was referencing Hitler specifically, not the Nazi regime which is (as all governments) far more complex and hamstrung by the demands of practicality at times.

>>50436476
I know, though I wouldn't call it stopping it. Keeping the worst excesses in check seems more aproppiate :^)

>>50436448
Actually in the Asurmen book its made clear the Eldar primarily did this to themselves.

Not mention of them doing so, or eradicating other races, is really made.

The most they say is that Eldar take occasional sabbaticals to live among other races.

>>50436333
Precisely. They have no goal besides "kill the villian of the week" so it's kind of impossible to have them do anything meaningful or, oh NOES, some Marines might die! We cannot possibly lose some of our 1000-man special snowflake forces! etc, etc.

Giving them more galactic-scale goals would help.
I don't mind them winning, in fact it's fun, but speaking as a faction with 6 or 7 defeats in my own codex, might help if they were less perfect like you said.

>>50429462
Christ Bligh is a fucking land whale

>>50436454
Well clearly the Eldar don't, sorry, since the Eldar Empire never took any efforts to do so despite being capable of it.

Look I'm not sure what your argument here is now. Its simply canon that the Eldar Empire didn't have a goal or principle of eradication of all non-Eldar life whereas the Imperium does have a goal and principle of the eradication of all non-human life. Are you disputing this or not?

>>50436369
>his position on all aliens was extermination regardless of context.
I don't get it. Were we invaded by xenolovers when I was asleep? You don't need a justification to kill xenos, the only exception being "they're of use to us as resources/labour".

I mean, look at cows. We placed them in concentration camps, force them to breed a lot, drink up their juices, eat their meat and children. It's pretty cruel if you think about it, a non-alien species from Earth. And it's all worth it, because they taste great. Suffering gives them that particular flavour :^)

The same with the dog, we made it grow according to our whims, transformed them into pigmey co-dependent servants. Some of them we transformed into miniature aberrations closer to rats than to wolves, only because we felt like looking at their mutated bodies is fun.

We're doing those aliens some kindness, anon. Suffer not the xenos to live, never doubt when pulling the trigger.

>>50436381
People sometimes tell me about how fast the time passes. I tell them I never feel that way. A month lasts a whole month.
But at least we know they won't delay the Inferno any more, right?

>>50436458
I'm pretty sure it is the policy of the Imperium to eradicate all non-human life as the galaxy belongs to mankind and mankind alone.

If you have a source for a large government body within the Imperium which explicitly disagress with this notion I'd be interested though.

>>50436485
>Alright but you're not giving any rational justification anymore.

It's the most rational justification of all.
You have experience, desire and power. Experience and power shapes your desire and allows you to enact it.
This is the ultimate rationality.
You have perceived the universe and come to a decision based on that perception. This is the root of all morals and rationale.

>>50436541
It's the money we offer FW and our desire for Inferno. Dude's like an old school Genestealer Patriarch.

>>50435890
Officially, everyone there knew it meant 'No psychic powers Magnus, everyone else is ok so long as you don't do exactly what magnus does'.

>>50436467
Haha! Very true.

>>50436534
Honestly at this stage I just want the Craftworld Eldar to win a meaningful victory in fluff. I feel is absolutely reprehensible how they've been treated in the fluff of late.

>>50436558
That's what it is by 40k

In 30k, if the aliens bent the knee and knew their place as second class citizens, they'd be begrudgingly allowed to live. Luckily for us, none did

>>50436510
Hitler's disposition toward Jewry was comparably mild to his adjudants and fellow party members, really.

there is no evidence to support him ordering genocidal policy, that is all on himmler taking it upon himself. hitler attempted to to stop the kristallnacht ordeal, and calm down radicals like goebbels and streicher from riling people up to attack jewish businesses. he was not this cartoonish frothing at the mouth hater, like modern media attempts to pigeon hole him as.

NS policy accepted jews and mischlings were biologically inclined to 'evil' tendencies, but if they showed loyalty to the NS state, they were considered to be Aryan of spirit. the spiritual and the biological notions of race were equally considered

>>50436556
Yeah but this isn't an argument. This is simply you demonstrating you don't understand the long standing distinction in philosophy between creatues capable of 'Reason' with a captial and not.

Honestly I'd assume you were trolling but this is /tg/ so I cannot be sure.

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>>50436556
>People sometimes tell me about how fast the time passes. I tell them I never feel that way. A month lasts a whole mont
This year has gone by quick to me.
>But at least we know they won't delay the Inferno any more, right?
It depends if they have finished the final touches on the Sons, and have done their proof reading among other factors.

>>50433608
per shitpost/shitpainter,
IW have everyone beat by a country mile.
Scientists are still debating whether it is oldfag CSM players trying to relive the glory days of cheesy ass 3.5, or just autists attracted to hazard strips and an easy paint scheme (which they still fuck 7 ways till Sunday)

>>50436603
Would you accept a crunch nerf for some fluffy wins? That would make everyone happy :)

>>50436560
Uh...no. That's not rationality. Rationality means you present reasoned arguments, ala Kant, in order to create the justification for your actions.

At current there is still no moral justification, that you've rationally proven, to permit you to take power.

Besides I'm not a moral relativist, I prefer my Kant personally. Hume is good too.