Flames of War General: "Tiger" Spotted Edition

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New thread in honor of plastic tigers. Maybe we'll buy 'em all up and validate those Allied tiger spottings!

Also, please feel free to rate or comment this EW Red Banner Strelkovy list.

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i must comment the new Panzerfunk ep., it's quite enjoyable!

great lines as well!

also, we lost a game to hen and chicks. as in, i have a new Russian player who is questioning his choices due to hen & chicks...we both lost due to sheer melancholy and the utter death of fun.

why? why after all this time.....

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In case anyone missed it last thread...

Panzerfunk Episode 17: Run for the hills! Run for your life!

http://panzerfunk.podbean.com/e/panzerfunk-episode-17-run-for-the-hills-run-for-your-life/

In this Episode the Funkmeisters discuss:

- Recent Hobby Activities.
- "The Trooper" - Our review of Iron Maiden for Team Yankee.
- Re-Pete - Our thoughts on everything new we learned from WWPD's interview with Battlefront's Pete Simunovich.
- Ask the Funkmeisters - Questions from YOU, our listening audience about out thoughts on Version 4, painting NATO camouflage, playing with Fearless Veteran forces, and tips and tricks for using Pioneers & Pioneer Supply Vehicles.

>>50428157

You mean you guys just packed it up since the new guy was taking too long on his turns? Learning how to play russian tankovy for me came down to the same decision every time: Do I scoot or do I shoot?

>>50427963
I was going to say "21 stands is dicey", but you're red banner, so fair.

What's your plan on the attack? You have nothing mobile.

>>50428157
>also, we lost a game to hen and chicks. as in, i have a new Russian player who is questioning his choices due to hen & chicks...we both lost due to sheer melancholy and the utter death of fun.

As I recall, BF made lists where the Soviets could take tanks without Hen and Chicks. In platoons of 4 for 75-90 points a pop. You know, like everyone else's medium tanks. Soviet players thought it was the most unfair thing on earth.

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>>50428258

no actually. it was "wait...we get a penalty, and then we have to worry about cover and range...and then it sunk in that 50% of the players were German or USA veterans...

he conceded, but it was a concession out of outright misery that comes from realizing you have joined the ranks of soviet players....

he's severely thinking about playing infantry...

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So, if I really like the ISU assault guns and wanted an army based around them, would I win any games?

And is it true a new edition is coming out?

>>50428372
Yeah so one platoon will be 23 (+2 AT rifles) and the other will be at 29 (+8 Sappers) so I feel okay about numbers.

For attacking I realize I am a bit screwed. Made this list up out of stuff I already have. My general plan would be to bombard the enemy position with the mortars while I wheel up my AT and AA guns into a firing line. The T-20s operate as a shitty light tank once they drop off their guns. Hopefully I could wear down the enemies position enough to assault it with a infantry company with QoQ. Fearless trained with Comissars would be pretty nasty in assault. Ultimately I want to buy some T-26s to integrate into my forces.

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>>50428458
Where are these lists?

>>50428194
It is extra work, but I'd rather not have it around. As for the plug underneath, no harder to remove, or paint in a shadowed colour. I'm not saying everyone should, just that I do.

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>>50429028
>Where are these lists?
They're called "Hero" lists, and are found in Desperate Measures and Berlin. They're easier to start with from a model and rules perspective, but from a gameplay perspective they're seen as underpowered because they lack smoke.

>>50429028
He's referring to the infamous Heroes of the Soviet Union lists, more commonly known as Hero lists.

Soviet Hero lists are in Desperate Measures and Berlin.

And as previously mentioned, a vocal segment of the Soviet player base vehemently hate Hero Tankovy.

>>50428545
>And is it true a new edition is coming out?

Yes. I believe they're aiming for March/April next year.

Although I'd probably put it on more of an April/May schedule.

Newer player here buying for a German army.

What type of Nebelwerfers should I purchase/use for my late war list?

So...sell my on TY Germans. I may have a buddy looking at Brits as well and I would like to keep things diverse without playing Russians.

So what's special about the Leopord?

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>>50429084
>>50429138
Oh I see, I was memed. That can't be compared to "everyone's else" lists, when it's lacking crucial assets. Doesn't help that the IS-2 was statted up nonsensically. But whatever, not my monkey, not my circus.

Does anyone know if we're getting plastic infantry for MW?

>>50429204
15cm, the one with a smoke bombardment.

>>50429242
Germans in Team Yankee are a small elite force assuming you're playing as mostly tanks.

The Leopard 2 is the premiere NATO MBT at this stage.

Armor on-par with the Abrams, and with a significantly stronger 120mm main gun.

You'll be outnumbered, but you you can take a beating, and dish out a beating in return.

German AA is also quite good, with the Gepard, Roland, and Fliegerfausts all forming a potential "Fuck your aircraft" no-fly zone.

>>50429245
Not exactly memed, but yeah, Hero Tankovy does exist. T-34/85s at the same platoon sizes and points costs as Shermans or Panzer IVs, without the restrictions of Hen & Chicks.

But still no smoke.

A lot of Soviet players hate it with a fiery burning passion, even after bitching and moaning constantly about H&C, they claim they'd still take H&C over Hero. *shrug*

>>50429242
Leopard 2 is currently the best tank in the game

I mean you pay 11 points each for them but they have the veterancy, thermal sights, armor, and speed of an M1 but a 120mm gun matching the firepower of a T-72, but with RoF 2 while stationary or moving.

They'll chew through T-72s and do respectably against blufor due to RoF 2

>>50429345
>>50429359
So small numbers, super elite kind of guys? Would mean less shit to paint.

Speaking of painting; any other good color schemes for TY stuff? I suck at painting and don't want to horribly fuck up camo, and also want my stuff to not look like I just shamelessly copied the studio schemes.

Any sort of cool urban schemes?

>>50429345
what are the brits like
I've been eyeing them

>>50429912
>look like I just shamelessly copied the studio schemes

But that's how it literally worked. There was a 'right' way to paint the camo; there were a specific pattern and colors for each vehicle they they put on with a template. It was a special kind of paint and the pattern was specifically designed

>>50428458
You mean hero lists, which are awful?

>>50429084
>>50429138
>seen as
>vocal segment
Guys hero lists are trash, anything you can do with a hero list you can do better as western allies or germans.

>>50430028
They're very WW2-y, with AT platoons, tanks that shoot less when they move, and the light mortar.

>>50428545
I think Red Bear has a heavy assault gun list. That should be pretty decent if you provide the right support. For the love of Stalin, don't take the hero heavy assault gun list out of Berlin.

>>50433046
That wasn't the point. Yes, US and German tank forces are easier to play.

The point is that Soviet players for years were asking for tank forces without Hen and Chicks, and when they finally get them they say that it sucks worse than having to deal with H&C.

They want their fuck-huge tank formations, AND they want No H&C. And they're upset they can't have it both ways.

>>50428157

Suck it the fuck up, you whiney little bitch.

>>50434265
Who pissed in your coffee this morning?

>>50428514
It's a steep learning curve for a new player to begin as Soviet Tankovy.

It's like choosing to start a brand new game you've never played before on Ultimate Difficulty.

>>50434294
>It's like choosing to start a brand new game you've never played before on Ultimate Difficulty.

Not really. You've got the best brute force instrument in the game to use. It's no harder than a newbie coming up against a Tankovy. They're not any harder, just different. The same principles tend to apply anyway.

Either way, the veteran is probably going to curb stomp you.

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*Air Raid Siren Blares*

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>>50434057
>They want their fuck-huge tank formations, AND they want No H&C. And they're upset they can't have it both ways.
Soviet player here.
I never see soviet players say this.
I do often see people (maybe you every time?) claim this in threads though.

Hero lists are kind of crap. They are also fun to play occasionally and I would say every communist player MUST play them a few times. It will give you an appreciation for h&c and also better understanding of non-h&c tactics. This will help immensly in playing standard soviets.

A snowflake list or two would be fun but soviets are fine as they are.

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Had a big game of team yankee i've never played a game that ran that smoothly with that many units on the table

>>50434867
How large of a game?

>>50434928
no points limit just throw as much on the table
so about 50 odd t72 tanks with abot 35 nato tanks and then a bunch of other assets

>>50434057
>They want their fuck-huge tank formations, AND they want No H&C.
What? No. Holy shit no. My biggest issue with regular tankovy is that it forces me to bring silly numbers of tanks. Although that is colored by the fact the only regular tankovy run around here are
>30 Matildas with SU-100s
>30 T-34/76s with SU-100s
>infantry? never heard of them
It's worse in MW and EW because from a historical standpoint that tank battalion you see is actually most of a tank army. There is no mechanism for showing a Soviet tank unit during or after a major battle. It would be great if Hero-type lists existed for those periods as well so I could properly run my pet tank corps as it was, even when it had fewer tanks than the minimum size of a tank company in FOW.

>>50434057
>The point is that Soviet players for years were asking for tank forces without Hen and Chicks, and when they finally get them they say that it sucks worse than having to deal with H&C.
Okay, so, I honestly don't know what the US would ask for, but let's say Brits got a list that allows uparmoured cromwells and gives them tally-ho instead of SIF, but in return you can only take motor infantry for support and you can't take artillery.

Do you see how getting a thing you'd like isn't helpful if it takes away other things you'd need to use?

>>50434841
>Soviet player here.
>A snowflake list or two would be fun but soviets are fine as they are.
Gonna raise an eyebrow here, unless you mean strictly "Soviets are playable".

>>50435030
>My biggest issue with regular tankovy is that it forces me to bring silly numbers of tanks.
20 tanks is hardly silly.
>most of a tank armour
30 tanks is an entire tank army?

>>50435355
In mid war you are likely running less than 20 T-34s if you still want support, so the numbers are fine by me.

>>50435355
>30 tanks is an entire tank army?
I've only looked at the 2nd GTA in any depth, but double digit strengths for the entire unit was depressingly common until until the rest after the invasion of Romania.

What's the right T-34/76 to T-34/85 mix for a tankovy platoon? 7/3?

Should I leave one of the two companies all 76's with the idea that one unit will be static firepower while the other tries to outflank, run down infantry, etc?

>>50434265
>anon's first day outside of /b/ doesn't go well, he is not blending in.

>>50436974
I play like that. It works for me.

Only having peashooter T34s in a unit might make it look like a weak threat but damn are they cheaper and the mobility gained by wide tracks really shine with those big blobs of unwieldly tanks.

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>>50437079
Let's help him with camo schemes!

>>50436974
I tended to have a shooting platoon and an assaulting platoon, if you bring tank escorts into the equation. It also makes the choice a bit easier if you're up against bigger stuff.

>>50436974
For DM I do that if I can't afford 2 blobs of /85, used to run 4 /76, 4 /85 in Red Bear though, which generally let me ablate shots on the /76s while I manuevered.

>>50434057
>The point is that Soviet players for years were asking for tank forces without Hen and Chicks, and when they finally get them they say that it sucks worse than having to deal with H&C.

That is certainly a nice opinion you have. In actuality, Soviet players really wanted something *different. Up until Desperate Measures, everything was "spam all duh tonks". The main things they have been asking for has always been snowflake formations, with less derpy H&C rules, veterans, and smoke all coming up in a close 2nd place. What they got were fuck-awful breifings built mostly for infantry lists, that hamstring your numbers, leave you at Trained without smoke, and remove H&C. H&C is only actually a problem for experienced players when the rules force something idiotic to happen... Such as being forced to leave a previously bogged down vehicle out of fire-line, because moving it up would mean everyone is at 1-shot with +1 penalty to hit. But by far the biggest complaint has been no Veterans even when there should be, and Battlefront beating the dead-horse that is generic breifings.

>They want their fuck-huge tank formations, AND they want No H&C. And they're upset they can't have it both ways.

No. They want specific, well-known brigades represented, actual veterans (not "veterans who die like chumps"). H&C doesn't matter for shit, and I would actually like a "Stalin's Favorite" 2nd Guards Tank Army that had Hen and Chicks, and were Fearless Veteran with Always Attack.

>>50436974
T-34-85s to their own formation, leave the -76s by themselves due to the mobility granted by Wide Tracks.

>>50434966
I can't quite tell what size game that would be, but it seems lopsided towards NATO, since those 35 tanks will certainly out-shoot 50 T-72s.

>>50440191
Enormously so, 35 NATO MBTs is 70 shots vs 50.

>>50440445
Right, which makes me think it was a "use everything we have" game instead of an attempt to play an equal points game.

>>50440571
Well, yes, but someone was saying it "seems" lopsided. There's no seems about it.

Things I didn't know #43:
Firing an AA MG makes you top 0 in assault, and you can't fire it and a main gun in the same turn.

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>>50439081
I guess this is a good time to plug the Red Banner Soviet Brainstorming discord. A place for us /fowg/ Soviet players to discuss and brainstorm some more unique lists for the soviets. All are welcome even if you just want to pole your head in from time to time to see what we are discussing.


Current topic: a conglomerate list for the desperate defense of moscow containing slots for protype tank designs such as the SU-100Y.

https://discord.gg/GhjQh

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Starting a German force.

I just bought 10 Panzer IVH tanks, 5 stugs, and two of the 15cm NW41 for artillery.


Is there anything else anyone would recommend?

Pic related, its my Panthers from Rommels wovles set.

>>50443476
Any infantry? You're going to need some for holding objectives.

Also, recon is incredibly useful for Ambush denial and revealing concealed enemy troops.

>>50443476

Some recon. Plastic Pumas should be in stores soon.

You sure painted those up fast if you are the same anon who bought Rommel's Wolves a thread or two ago.

>>50443550
I have the panzergrenadier platoon from the rommels wolves. Other than that no, no other infantry.

Any suggestions for infantry or recon?

I have only played 2 games so far and they were just tank battles.

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>>50443561
I am that anon I think, I did ask a month ago about rommels wolves.

I paid someone to paint them because I travel for my job and am away from home for anywhere from one to two weeks at a time.

So I don't have access to Leopord right now, so I'm just gonna ask here.

What's the point of taking Leopord I's over Leopord II's? The 2 seems to have way better armor with a better gun. Is the 1 just cheaper?

>>50444202
They're almost as fast as Leopard IIs, and are much much cheaper than IIs. Each Leopard II is 11 points. Three Leopard Is is 9 points. AT-19 is perfectly acceptable for Flank Shots duty.

>>50444256
So the I's are the fast flanking tank of the German army?

Thank makes more sense.

>>50444416
They are poorly armored and not quite as fast as a leo 2 but close. I have played 2 games with them and as far as I can tell they need to be deployed on the flanks and hidden in cover. You can use your Luchs to move your deployment up.

>>50444416
You get way more of them for your points, and since they have the same number of shots and still absolutely annihilate BMPs it helps deal with large hordes of soviet afvs

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>>50434841
Surely the Cossack list in Red Bear is a snowflake. Dunno if it actually works or not.

But yeah, other than that, Soviet lists feel too similar to each other. They don't have recon companies or a wide range of morale/skill ratings, and support options are always just a little different from one book to the next.

I guess the light and heavy assault gun lists are fairly unique, but the former scare everyone off I need monetary cost and the latter struggle because heavy ROF1 vehicles just aren't very points effective in v3.

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Operation Market-Garden 1944 (2): The British Airborne Missions (Osprey Campaign 301)

With Germany being pushed back across Europe the Allied forces looked to press their advantage with Operation Market-Garden, a massive airborne assault that, if successful, could have shortened the war in the west considerably. The ground advance consisted of an armoured thrust by the British XXX Corps, while the US 82nd and 101st US Airborne Divisions secured the bridges at Eindhoven and Nijmegen and the British 1st Airborne Division and Polish 1st Airborne Brigade were tasked with seizing the final bridge at Arnhem to secure the route. What they did not realise was that the 9. SS and 10. SS-Panzer Divisions were nearby, ready to reinforce the local garrison and fend off the Allied assault.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/5xvmnxnlhdmml41/Osprey+-+%D0%A1AM+301+-+Operation+Market+Garden+1944+%282%29+British+Airborne+Missions.pdf

>>50445959
>Soviet lists feel too similar to each other
They're well within the bounds set by the other lists.

The big issue with any comparison here is LW Western Front. You remove that, and everything else falls into line. MW and EW particularly.

>>50449008
I don't think BF have to knock the standard down, they just have to give the same attention to everyone else.

>>50450443
It's a design issue. Western Front LW is the problem, it's the one that's been sliced down to hell and back. Bringing everyone else up to the same standard would take a long time, and for that matter, a different war. WF slices down very easily, given the intervals and variations in operations.

But look at EW. EW is nothing like LW in terms of snowflakes, Germans or not.

They're all getting attention. But the realities of the WF, and the desire to not print the basically the same list for the hundredth time, is the point of pressure here, not an attitude as to attention.

>>50450467
Compare blitzkrieg to barbarossa. The soviets got three lists, all generic. Even the Poles got four lists in Blitzkrieg. Hell, compare the germans to the soviets in the same book; the germans have over twice as many lists! The same is true of eastern front, arguably the best balanced period, where they get eight lists, seventeen german (plus every other axis nation).

Berlin and DM was the only time the Soviets got a focus, and from that we got heroes.

>>50450625
>seventeen german
Yeah, because there's more than one Front for the Germans. And mind you, there's massive overlap between EF and NA in MW.
>Barbarossa
None of those lists are snowflake lists. They seem pretty pared down, and all of them overlap a fair bit in terms of support. They're pretty much differentiated by mandatory platoon choice. You can't really justify slicing down Soviet tank lists into 4 seperate ones. There's no loss of focus anywhere, Barbarossa is a pretty generic book on both sides for the most part.

>>50450625

How would you have done Barbarossa, then?

>>50450675
>there's more than one Front for the Germans
I'm comparing Eastern Front lists. If I added in Africa it'd get worse.

>None of those lists are snowflake lists.
I didn't say they were. Germans just get twice as many generic lists as the soviets do.

For lists the soviets are missing, try all the differentiated tankovy battalions, or even a heavy tankovy battalion which isn't possible to make. There's not even a KV battalion in the digital. There's no cavalry, no paratroopers, no stay-behind partisan units... This is coming to me off the top of my head, and it's not even my job to sit down and research for lists to make into my book.

>>50451424
How about you actually do something about it instead of just constantly bitching? Or is that your hobby, bitching endlessly on the internet about your red waifu?

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>>50451424
You know what? I agree with you as a soviet player.
Now lets all just drop the subject since bitching and moaning about it didn't bring anything positive to the last thread.

>>50445959
None of those are snowflake. There were many cossack formations, and assault gun regiments. So these lists are still just generic briefings.

Now, if we had a briefing for the 8th Self Propelled Artillery Brigade (markings were an eagle insignia, whole brigade outfitted with SU-76s with T-70 command vehicles), and briefing orgnaization, motivation/training, and special rules to reflect them, then we'd have a snowflake briefing there. Same thing if there was a 338th Heavy Self Propelled Artillery Regiment (all ISU-152s), with say a rule that allows them to move and fire, and possibly Confident Veteran. The 338th are even represented in BF's decals for ISUs; their insignia is the line with a perpendicular arrow pointing down.

>>50451545
While I would love to publish lists I'm not actually the guy who owns FoW so it's not actually possible for me to "do something about" Battlefront's lack of regard for the Soviets. I am researching the defence of moscow for the homebrew discord though so maybe go fuck yourself.

>>50452371
They'll take a look at homebrew lists with references. People keep making them… for non-Soviet armies. Easier to find info.

>>50451424
>all the differentiated tankovy battalions
What do you mean?
>cavalry
Which the German's don't get either.
>paratroopers
See LW. You don't need a special list for them.
>Partisan
Not really what FoW is built around. See the Raiding lists. Or rather, the practically total absence of them in play.
>off the top of my head
Yeah, it shows. Whine whine, some arbitrary metric doesn't make me feel good.

>>50451968
Oh look, it's highly self-serving snowflake definition anon.

>>50452572
The only list you can make with Barbarossa is a tankovy battalion fitted out with T-34s; BT, T-26/28/35 battalions are absent from the book, and KVs don't exist at all.

Germans don't get cav but they have twice the lists, I'm sure they'll be sobbing themselves to sleep.

Paratroopers are an obvious list to add if you need more ideas for guys who're different.

Partisans do appear in LW, and were an issue throughout the war.

And your last sentence isn't even intelligible so grats on proving your retardation I guess fampai.

Do any companies make later T-55 models in 15mm? Tournament in February so I want the bulk of my army ready to go the day the book comes out in Jan.

>>50452812
>KV's don't exist
They do, though. You just don't get them as a compulsory platoon.
>Cav
It was one of the ones you specified. In the meantime, most of the German lists are very slight variations on one another. The tank lists particularly.
>need more ideas
They don't, though. BF designers aren't as precious as Soviet players. You can have a set of FoW games that nicely encapsulates Barbarossa.
>Partisans
They have a token list that's basically a Strelkovy, for the obvious reasons.
>issue
Yeah, but not in FoW. Resistance and partisan lists are almost totally overlooked.
>last sentence
Hey, you're terrible at text comprehension as well as game design.

>>50452898
I bought Old Glory T-55s, but they are not the new update. I think I am going to leave them as the standard version to stand in for T-55s across all theatres. If you want a modern T-55 I believe QRF has a version with the laser rangefinder and Turret armor and a version with ERA.

>>50453127
>I take personal offence at a game I play having flaws: the post.
If all you took from actual problems there are with the soviet side is "soviet players complain too much" then you're fucking retarded.

>>50454185
>actual problems
Novelty list selection options not being one of them.

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I want to show you all my Dad's FoW collection. He organizes them in these plastic containers like this and stacks them. And he also has quite a bit of terrain too.

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>>50454578
Here's the closet as it currently stands, he also has all the books that have ever been published for the game.

>>50454595
Wow I'm jelly

>>50454595
Impressive. Most impressive.

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I wish I had a cool fow dad...

>>50452812

The BT, T-26/28/35/etc and the cavalry lists are in Rising Sun.

KVs are in barbarossa, along with a lead-lease tank battalion.

The Barbarossa digital lists also feature some of the rising sun stuff with Barbarossa options.

Did you even open these books or are you just making shit up?

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so
If I'm west german and is possibly facing 6 hinds or 4 harriers:
Will I be fine with two gepards or do I need more aa?

>>50456335
Bring 4 gepards at the minimum. Be sure to look at the Gepard card. Radar will give you a 40" range. Against hinds and harriers gepards are sufficient, but if you plan on facing frogfoot or A-10, some missile AA (i use fliegerfausts) is helpful.

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>>50456424
How about two rolands instead of two extra gepards?
Or is that a bad idea?
>I just want a greater variety of models
>and Rolands are cool

>>50455691
>Comparing Barbarossa Germans and Soviets...
There is also no KV company/battalion in Barbarossa.
I don't care about digital because releasing DLC for a tabletop game to fix books is stupid.

You literally can't read.

>>50456704
>wants lists
>gets shown lists
>those lists don't count because they "are stupid"

6/10 got me to reply

>>50456424
Wait what does the missile AA have that Gepards don't? Fliegerfausts and rolands have lower RoF and worse firepower/equal firepower respectively. Is it just that bit of extra range?

>>50457030
And guided.
But imo the extra range of the Roland is it's selling point.

>>50456529
Gives you 2-tank platoons, which are at risk of routing with one bail. It's not advised.

>>50457109
Well Radar does the same thing as Guided with respect to negating the hit penalty.
The Gepard can still shred BMPS as well. But I can see how going from 32" to 56" could be useful

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Well I think I'll buy two more Rolands and Gepards since my local meta is aircraft crazed.
Thanks for the input guys.

>>50457304
is that a legit camo pattern?
for hiding amongst giraffes? I think i know how im painting my germans.

>>50457522
a few minutes in google reveal it is a specially painted version for target practice

http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Was-kann-der-Gepard-article10462186.html

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>>50457522
>zur Afrika, Kameraden!
I doubt it was more than a pr-stunt camo.

>>50457522
er, a better link maybe

http://www.airpower.at/news2010/1008_4iaads/

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>>50456335
bring 16 Geppards. then bring something to fight tanks with.

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Wait...the Gepard has a 100cm aa bubble.
Maybe I don't need those Rolands.

>>50457728
wait the main rulebook says radar has a 32" range

what the shit

>>50457728
Depends how sure about bunching up you are.

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>>50457754
Faq says Gepards have "superior radar".
I'm guessing they fucked up and decided to keep it in.

>>50457808
oh.

works for me I have gepards in the mail

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>>50457808
>Gepard means Cheetah
>Gepard has 40" range
This pic is freaking me out.

>>50457675
16 Gepards?
We can do better!

Get 2 of these

Leo 1 Kompanie HQ- 3
2 Leo 1s - 6 points
2 M113s, 2 MG3 teams, 2 Milans- 4 Points
6 Gepards - 15 points

2 costs you 56 points.

On top of that you can bring one of these

M113 Panzergrenadier Kompanie

1 G3 team 1 X M113- 1 point

2 x

2 M113 , 2 MG 3 team, 2 x Milan Teams- 4 points

6 Gepards- 15 points

This will cost you 24 points

For a grand total of 80 points you get 8 milans, some mech units to act as a picket, 6 Leo 1s. and 18 Gepards. You can fill in the rest of the points with Jaguars or PAH flights and laugh as you bury your enemy in a pile of guided missiles and 30 mm autocannon rounds

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>>50458361
Jaguars?

That list is bonkers though.
>I wish I could afford it

>>50457584
>>50457608
Im a filthy slav. it physically hurts to read german.

either way its a nice pattern. yellow without an airbrush might be a bit shit to paint though

>>50458402
Guided Missiles on Leo 1 chassis. The Panzertruppen lists use the Jaguar 2. It only has AT 21 with the "improved" TOW, but I think they only cost 5 points for 3. They also have thermals (so do your milans). So if you are up against Soviet tank spam you can try to roll for night fighting.


The list is in the same sphere as SU-76 magical realm, or bartosz's Puma company.

>>50458536
ah, a slav. No wonder you're afraid of the glorious NATO 3 colour camo.

>>50458560
Oh man I forgot, I really can't keep the german cats apart.

>>50457808
>Faq says Gepards have "superior radar".
Hilarious.

>>50459390
>>50457728

8" makes a huge difference. I played a game mistakenly using 32" and frogfoots were able to pick me apart with their AT missiles.

>>50456704

Don't move those goalposts too far, don't want to pull something.

>>50458536
Yellow is always a bitch to paint.

>>50458361
You need Panzertruppen to make those lists, but if you want insane amounts of Gepards, that's certainly a way to do it.

If, using the Nachtjager (means knight searcher) rules, I combat attach a Panzersturm Heavy Platoon to a Panzersturm Platoon equipped with infra-red equipment, does the platoon still get to spearhead deploy?

>>50461313
nevermind we figured it out

page 19 of lessons from the front

If I do make a Night Attack, platoons
with Infra-red Equipment can make
Spearhead moves. Does the whole
platoon need to be so equipped to do so?
Yes the whole platoon must have Infrared
Equipment. The vehicles without
IR equipment can’t keep up at night,
preventing the unit from being the
spearhead.

Rules question: would a defending platoon be Gone to Ground during the attackers first turn (assuming the attacker has the first turn) if they did a recce move, but are not a recce platoon (such as any weapons or combat platoon in Task Force A)?

>>50459614
No you literally can't read. Go back and start this conversation thread over again, read it slow, sound out the words if you need to. I'll wait.

>>50459490
Yeah, but that's always been the more-dakka gun's weakness. The Gepard is already ridiculously good at mulching helicopters, and is probably one of the best AA units in the game, and now it's ghetto anti-strike air too? NATO AA is incredibly good, the soviets are lagging.

>>50464028
>Non American AA
You mean. 4 VADS, woo.

>>50464028
The gepard has a base 32" range without radar. I wonder if radar is supposed to give a +8" to all units or if it was just a misprint by battlefront that got integrated because reprinting unit cards is expensive.

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French early war list review

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>>50464978
1500 points

>>50464978
>>50464990
I'm not an Early War player, so I could be missing something, but it looks like a fairly solid list to me.

It covers all the major areas, infantry, anti-infantry weapons, tanks, artillery, and anti-aircraft.

It has even platoons, and is right on the dot in terms of fitting inside the points limit.

Nothing is jumping out at me as being glaringly wrong with it.

Can someone recommend me a good ressource for ww2 German tank markings and camo patterns?

>>50466810
A history book about german tank markings? It's not like that information was hidden behind the iron curtain for 50 years...

>>50466810
Check over at /hwg/ they should have a section for painting guides.

>>50452587
I hate to tell you this, anon... but...
>Generic: characteristic of or relating to a class or group of things; not specific.

By virtue of the fact that the Soviet lists by definition are "generic", they therefore cannot be snowflake lists. The Razvedki, Light/Medium/Heavy Assault Gun Regiments, and Cossack, are all generic. They are briefings meant to represent all of the formations of their type, with available support options representing all of the different support elements those formations had. This is why Assault Gun lists have both flame tank, and tank companies, taking up the same location in the list... Those (known) regiments had one or the other attached.

By their nature, they are generic because they are meant to represent all of those formations. Just because it's a list that has ISUs or SU-76s as combat companies, doesn't mean it's not a generic breifing.

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>>50466810
Don't have much, but I did find this while looking around for pictures of brit stuff a few weeks ago. Might help.

>>50467161
That doesn't really hold up. In the, say, Market Garden lists, basically everything is a 'snowflake' list, and yet most are either very similar to a generic lists, or have the support options that effectively make them a generic list. Or you have situations where you're in practise playing a specific unit (most of the North African lists, particularly for the Germans), and yet they're fundamentally generic. If that's your definition, then most lists that are hypothetically snowflake lists are essentially generic ones.

>>50463043
No as far as I know, because they have moved. And it's a spearhead move, not technically a recce move I think for TFA?

>>50468548
Actually, it does hold up. Barring a few exceptions, those "snowflake in name only" formations still tend to have specific motivation/skill to better represent the titular formation. For example, British typically are the Reluctant/Confident Veterans. The 11th armored recce company, which is little more than a Cromwell tank list with integrated A30s, is still somewhat unique because it is a British Trained combat-company tank list. All that said, North Africa, and Market Garden, are NOT sterling examples to go by. MW in general is mostly generic, and Market Garden was really more of a "we're trying to make Brits playable again." Road to Rome, and even went so far as to give all the 17-pounders sabot rounds.

The thing to remember is that as minor as ##-division is to the briefing title, and as seemingly insignificant it is to give it an motivation/skill for that nation, that is still more detail than what Soviets have received. All of their lists are summarized as either "Red Army or Guards, with rare exception to the EW Red Banner infantry, MW Militia, or the LW digital Hero Cossack and Hero Sapper. From a historical standpoint, that is lumping each one of their full army formations into 2 motivation/rating brackets, depending entirely upon whether or not they were awarded Guards Honors. The entirety of all brigades within all Guards Armies are Fearless Trained, and anything not-Guards Honored are Fearless Conscript (MW) or Confident Trained (LW). EW shakes that up by making them all Conscript.

For comparison, that would be like representing all German briefings as Confident Veteran, and all SS briefings as Fearless Veteran. Or treating all American lists as either Confident Trained, or Confident Veteran. No exceptions.

>>50467380
Interesting; a lot of those I haven't seen before (5and 10, particularly).

>>50470040
>For example, British typically are the Reluctant/Confident Veterans.
Uh, no, they're typically CT or CV. The 7th is only RV for one book, and they're a tiny fraction of the brit lists. Similarly for the 51st.

>>50466810
There are so many that it's hard to answer the question. I'll start with some super-basic info:
http://www.panzerworld.com/german-armor-camouflage

tanks-encyclopedia.com has a lot of profiles but some are poorly documented and are disputed.

>>50467323
>>50468548
>>50470040
Let's not start arguing over what exactly "snowflake" means, that'd be silly. Whether it's a specific (and hopefully unusual) battlegroup or a generic but unusual list like Cossacks, we're looking for more options.

I'm not sure it's really all that bad. Cossacks, Rota Razvedki, and Light Assault Tank lists feel pretty different in a good way. Penal battalion feels different too, but not in such a good way. Naval infantry should've been interesting but sort of wasn't. I'd like to see a recon-heavy Soviet list. I'd also like to see lists for battalions from specific republics or other areas of the USSR.

I haven't checked out Early War - do the Siberians who came back to the defense of Moscow have their own lists? Is there a list for the more obscure weapons that saw combat during that battle, like the SU-14-2 and SU-100Y? (Granted, the former probably doesn't fit well into FoW since it's an artillery piece.)

>>50471334
>Is there a list for the more obscure weapons that saw combat during that battle, like the SU-14-2 and SU-100Y? (Granted, the former probably doesn't fit well into FoW since it's an artillery piece.)
That's actually what the discord group is working on right now, the defense of Moscow. If you know enough to help, please help since several of us are clueless brit/german players just trying to help with list diversity.

>>50471334
Cossacks weren't unusual. They're just downplayed because people don't associate cavalry with WW2. For most western historians, cavalry died out shortly after WW1, where it was mostly only shown to be of use in the middle east. Yet even in WW1, cavalry played a massive role in the eastern front, where maneuvers and counter maneuvers and skirmishes kept a static battle line from forming, unlike what happened in France. During WW2, cavalry wasn't *as* big of an involvement as tank formations, but it was cavalry that helped to keep shit from falling apart during the final stages of Barbarossa. In total Russia had about 10 cavalry corps during World War 2, which is roughly equivalent of 10 western divisions of cavalry.

So no, cavalry briefings are not, nor should they be considered, unusual.

>>50470516
Desert Rats are still get a lot of focus, even when they're not Reluctant. Phil ensures that, because they're his favorite army to play.

>>50471875
I just mean unusual in terms of FoW armies. As a player, I'd also say armored car lists are unusual. It's always fun to see something that isn't a typical list consisting of medium tanks and infantry in varying proportions.

Can you stop it with this soul crushingly inane discussion? It's the same god damn points like the last thread.

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>>50472237
Alright, Tiger sprue talk.

Like all the TANKS sprues, it's got a national color in case you don't want to paint it. The TANKS Panther is actually a greenish shade (dunkelgelb was sometimes greenish) while the Pz. IV and StuG III are the same yellow that the Tiger appears to be in. I wonder if they'll start casting all the plastics in colors. It's fine except the American olive green is dark enough to make it harder to see shadows where you haven't aligned the pieces very well.

The sprue is clearly arranged so that they can make an early Tiger half-sprue with the deep-dish, rubber-rimmed wheels, no zimmerit, and early exhausts. Does that mean you're out of luck if you want early wheels with zimmerit? That was the case for tanks built between July 1943 and Feb. 1944. (Which means this model only represents the last six months of production, since the last one was built in August 1944.)

>weekly update tomorrow December 1
>BF stated they would explain V4 to a greater degree in December
Who's ready for /whining every week until BF finally shows something New Year's Eve 11:59pm/

>>50471334
A unit of 2 SU-14-2 and the SU-100Y would be a fun addition for Moscow, similar to MWM's dicker max/sterer emil combo, or Berlin's oddball units for the Germans.

>>50474470
Or the Dicker Maxes that you can actually bring to Early War.

>>50474470
That's what we are thinking in the discord. If we have evidence of it's service there we can have it as an oddball option for a moscow defense list. The SU-100Y would fit in a similar role to the Dicker Max, probably at a lesser price with poor training and a negative trait or two. Now someone just needs to scratch make one for us.

>>50474551
Barbarossa has the Dicker Max. Sure one will cost nearly a third of your points, but one day I will build that list!

>>50474551
Why the hell did they need AT that heavy in EW?

What were the French, Soviets, or British fielding in 1939 that needed a gun that powerful to destroy it?

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>>50472237
See, no one replied to the post that wasn't about the lack of Soviet snowflake lists.

>>50476463
KV-1, but it was originally meant to be used against the Maginot Line. Kind of like this guy.

>>50472593
Bit of a shame, really, about the wheels. But I imagine that a good layer of mud and dust would obscure that, at least.

I just love the fact that there's an actual bucket on the sprue as stowage.

>>50470040
>that is still more detail than what Soviets have received
Given what you've said about mostly generic formations, does it matter? They've got the full kitchen sink of support, so it's not like your shafted into only a few possible lists.

Do you really get THAT into playing as a specific division? I change my lists around too much to give a shit. Plus, I mostly play finns, and they're basically the same list with changed ATGs most of the time.

>>50470040
>all German briefings as Confident Veteran, and all SS briefings as Fearless Veteran
Which was the case for a very long time. It basically still is the default case before the LLW lists started disrupting things.
>Or treating all American lists as either Confident Trained, or Confident Veteran. No exceptions.
Except that fucks the entire keystones of several major operations, in pop culture if nothing else. The Soviets on the other hand, have what they need to cover 99% of everything. And there's exceptions to the main ratings everywhere, one way or another. Much like the Allies, for that matter.

>>50476463
Anything, but from long range. Remember the PaK36 was their standard gun, and it wasn't that effective at long range against anything.

>>50470516
Yeah, anon's point was bad. Most British are CV or CT, war over.
>>50471921
You mean they got a list or two with a different rating?

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>>50474604
I would have to go looking again, but I recall reading the SU-100Y was used in a "special purpose" unit with 2 up-armoured SU-14-2 in the defense of Moscow, but no specifics beyond that. The SU-14s were described as having "taken some dings" afterwards, but otherwise made it through.

>>50476463
The dicker max was meant to knock out maginot line emplacements; it's utility against KVs was accidental.

>>50478650
As did the SU-100Y, given it's still around today.

>>50472593
The sprue is sparse. Seeing as the panther/jagdpanther sprues are filled with more bits than I know what to deal with (like alternate exaust).

>>50472593
They're likely making Early production and Late Production, and skipping Mid-production.

Something that will generally speaking cover most of Mid-War and Late War.

Quick and dumb proposal to try and limit parking lot bumper-to-bumper placement of tanks:

If a tank would begins its move within 1" of a friendly tank, or would end its move within 1" of a friendly tank, its movement speed is reduced by 2".

>>50482842
Awful, no. The command range of tanks is too small for that.

>>50482889
Flames or TY? TY, yeah, no way to solve parking lot without increasing command distance. Flames, command chains easily, and even conscript tanks just have to be within 4" of each other.

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>>50482842

I like the spirit of the law, but it seems like that would slow down gameplay with all the measuring. In flames, artillery or air power can dissuade close packed formations of tanks. In TY, the problem isn't that players want to parking lot up, but rather the 6" command distance prevents that.

>pic related: vehicle to vehicle communication in TY

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5392
>When Germany developed the Hafthohlladung (a cone-like, magnetic shaped charge) in 1942, they were quick to realise that a similar weapon could be used against them and a countermeasure was quickly sort.

Oh, you British English (or similar) speakers and your misspellings because you don't voice those r's. Like a "pros and corns" typo I once saw in NZ.

>>50484096
I assume they meant "quickly sought".

>>50478139
>You mean they got a list or two with a different rating?
Still more.
And they got a special rule unique to them.

>>50478124
>They've got the full kitchen sink of support, so it's not like your shafted into only a few possible lists.
There is an awful lot of that "kitchen sink" that ends up being questionably worth using, or mandatory. You always have to have recce, and AA is worth raising an eyebrow towards. But tube artillery can be avoided, and Decoy tanks are a waste of briefing space.

>Do you really get THAT into playing as a specific division?
Yes. I'm particularly interested in the 46th Guards Tank Brigade, and 53rd Guards Tank Brigade. Neither are represented well in Flames.

>>50470040 (You) #
>Which was the case for a very long time. It basically still is the default case before the LLW lists started disrupting things.

Hammer and Sickle had Ersatz Pioneer CT and Sperrverband RV back in 2nd edition. Bagration is not LLW.


>Except that fucks the entire keystones of several major operations, in pop culture if nothing else.
Boo hoo. Cheeseburger fags can go suck a goat.

>The Soviets on the other hand, have what they need to cover 99% of everything. And there's exceptions to the main ratings everywhere, one way or another. Much like the Allies, for that matter.
No there aren't. The ratings change between eras, but the only exceptions are EW Red Banner award strelkovy, MW Confident Conscript Militia Strelkovy, LW Partisan (played less than 8ya Shtraf), and the aforementioned Hero Cossak and Sapper. That is in entirety, across all 3 time periods of WW2.

I was looking at Grey Wolf and noted with some amusement that you could make a LW list of T-26s, which I guess is interesting in the sense you could field the same-ish army no matter if it's EW, MW, or LW.

Of course the next question is, why would you ever run a T-26 list in LW and about all I can say is that it'd look pretty cool. It would mostly be an infantry list with the T-26s just sort of being there but oh well.

>>50487239
Imagine a Soviet T-26 list vs a German Beutepanzer (f) list vs a British Tetrarch (or Locust) airmobile list.

Any more shite-tank options in LW? Maybe some Finns?

>>50487346
The T-26 list is Finnish.

I have the components for it; I guess you basically treat it as if it was an always-attacks infantry force with lots of cheap, bad armour. Might not be impossible on a wood-dense board the finns can rocket around in.

Just to clarify - tanks can or cannot shoot their main gun on infantry as part of defensive fire? The rulebook says "turret mounted weapons" but does not elaborate what that is...

>>50488231
Main guns mounted in a turret, ie: those that aren't Hull-Mounted (a weapon is assumed to be turret mounted unless it has the Hull-Mounted rule). So you can't shoot a StuG's main gun in defensive fire, but you can shoot a Panzer IVs.

>>50487346
I don't think the Soviets had any T-26s left in operation by LW timeline... But I know you can run those hilariously fail tanks in MW's Mixed Tankovy briefing. You can spam the fuckers, or just add a company or two. If they ever get plastics, or if I ever feel like making a huge order to plastic soldier company, I'll probably run that stupid list with 30 of them... Supported by SU-76s, no less.

>>50488307
ok, thanks!

>>50488510
Man, T-26s are perfectly good for Mid War and don't let anyone else tell you differently.

>>50488510
There are still T-26s being recorded as repaired and returned by factories in 1944, don't give up hope anon.

Probably in Manchuria, but we can hope.

>>50488510
I think Zvezda (conical turret) and Miniairons (cylidrical turret) make plastic kits for the T-26.

>>50488510
>>50489632

Derp, I just reread what you posted. Disregard.

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easy army for flames of war is officially down.

i know it's old news, but those of us who had it realise it wasn't actually taken down right away...

it is now.

>>50490154
RIP

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Half-ass edited, but here's a batrep from the other night for you guys. Poor IS-2s...

>>50491817
Interresting. Thank you.

>>50490154
F

Anybody else thinking Korea would have made much more sense than Vietnam as an expansion for this game? Sad how often that war gets overlooked.

>>50495092
Vietnam got made because Battlefront's watched 'We were Soldiers' and said "Man we should make a ruleset for it."

>>50495125
Quite a glorious position as a games dev.

AIW was also made because some of the people at the studio had a keen historical interest in it, from what I remember.

>>50495092
You are going to run into similar issues. Imagine running a Chinese PLA or Korean infantry horde. It's going to be as expensive/painstaking as EW conscript Strelkovy. Armored forces for the KPA/PLA would just be T-34 hordes, though it would be coold seeing the Pershing used more for the Americans. There may be more cool stuff for the other UN contributors, but the same problem remains. Bluefor get most of the cool toys, while at best opfor gets a couple of cool special rules. On top of that most of the vehicles and all the American infantry would be the same, so there's not much new to sell.

It would be nice to get the lists though. I have the winter war strelkovy with the caps and fixed bayonets, and I think they'd work really well for proxying Koreans.

Is there any way to run KV2s in late war? I love the look of this thing.

And what's the optimal # of Katyushas w/ extra crew? With a cheap purchase I can reach 7.

>>50495092
Korea would make a shit game, like AIW 1967, but with more terrain and massive infantry attacks. The Opfor would be pretty rubbish to play.

>>50496019
None that I know of.

>>50496019
Either you go minimum (2, with extra crew), if you just want something to pin stuff, or you go maximum (which might be maximum retard, since they die like unarmored tank teams).

>>50487499
T-26s don't get the woodsman rule, and it's a fucking terrible list. Everything you have can be penned, almost auto-penned, in the front arc, by Bazooka. It's a bad list.

>>50491817
>The Russian player made 1 major mistake
>Pretending he was actually playing British or Germans, and utterly failing to grow a pair and play them appropriately.

>>50490154
Man, there goes most of my list making ability.

Goddamnit BF. You just had to monetise it.

>>50497977
it's like his third game and he has hero IS-2s you can cut him some slack

>>50497977
>made 1 major mistake
playing hero IS-2

>>50497987
>>50490881
>>50490154

Perhaps I'm being a Luddite here, but what's wrong with good old-fashioned pen, paper, and a calculator for figuring out your list?

For printing out a list, you still need to type something up, sure.

But figuring out the list itself, pen, paper, and calculator has always worked for me.

*shrug*

>>50498214
you have to own the book
fucked me over when i was playing mechanicus because i cannot be arsed to pay 60cad for a god damned army list.

>>50498214
Screagles you've seen the battlefront books

Ok now I need a tank hunter company guess I gotta flip to page 500... ok gotta go to the back to find the stats... wait, I can take a special tank company in the same slot, gotta flip back to page 243 because those are a different lists compulsory choices...

it's an even bigger pain on a pdf with no bookmarks and page numbers that don't sync up

>>50498214
>but what's wrong with
It's slow, for one. You have to flick back and forth through the book finding the relevant entry, the adding up is instantaneous and flawless, and the transcription is pleasantly presented and legible.
>>50498256
Also this.

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>>50498256
>Mechanicus

Well that's your problem right there. Games Workshop makes you pay bonkers amounts of money for everything.

Even digital versions of the books.

>>50498351
yeah which is why i've switched off to FoW
and even then PSC

Anyone have any idea what the E. German infantry stats are going to look like?

>>50488931
>Probably in Manchuria, but we can hope.
Wikipedia says:
>On the less active portions of the Soviet-German front, some tank units of the encircled Leningrad Front used their T-26 tanks till the beginning of 1944, when the breaking of Leningrade Blockade began (for example, the 1st and the 220th Tank Brigades each had 32 T-26 tanks on 1 January 1944). T-26s with applique armour were used there till summer 1944. In the Karelia and Murmansk area (another stabilized part of the Soviet-German front) T-26s served even longer, until late summer of 1944
It cites a Russian author, Mikhail Baryatinsky (2006).

>>50498256
Have you LOOKED at the OP? Pirated pdfs, mate.
>>50498334
Am I the only one who remembers most of that (at least roughly) in the head.

Hell, I prefer looking at the books (digital or otherwise) while designing lists.

>>50498585
>Have you LOOKED at the OP? Pirated pdfs, mate.
yes
this was a general answer to a general question.

>>50498585
Roughly, certainly. But roughly isn't much good when making lists, you want exact figures, given that small adjustments here and there tends to be the rock that lists break or make themselves upon.

>>50498214
My handwriting is shot, flipping through the booka to find every option is a pain, my dyslexia with numbers means I'm more likely to input something backwards and fuck my entire list up.

Also it's nearly 2017, we should be embracing technology for shit like this. Of course when companies realize they can then charge us stupid prices for said services we get fucked.

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Just use fow lists bloggspot.

>>50499220
Definately a good alternative, but, it's missing the latest books, notably Nachtjäger and new compilations.

>>50495259
There were still a lot of other things besides T-34s that could be feasibly represented for the opfor. IS-2s, as fuck-awful as they are, appeared in the Korean War. Along with both variants of T-34, the SU-76, and reportedly leftover LL Sherman 76mm and M5A1s.

I don't know how many SU-76s appeared in Korean war, but fuck yeah I would spam the shit out of them!

>>50498083
The Brit player had almost as many challenger A30s as he had IS-2s. That game was over before it even started! I'll cut him slack because it's his 3rd game, but he needs to seriously reconsider the list he's playing.

>>50498500
Not going to lie... I would definitely be fucking crazy enough to run a "Leningrad Front 1st or 220th Tankovy Brigade" briefing if they ever bothered to make it.

I have taken an interest in this game. What can you tell me about it?

>>50500499
It's historical warfare, but with simple enough rules that you don't need a doctorates in mathematics to unserstand how to play. Beyond that, there are different time periods (Early WW2, Mid WW2, Late WW2, 6-Day War, Vietnam, Team Yankee), and each time period has specific nationalities that act as the game's "factions". You collect and paint miniatures, and then play your friends or LGS jerks, at whatever points-value you agree upon. Playing ahistorical matchups works fine, such as Americans vs Brits, or Italians vs Hungarians. But it also plays well thematically. Each nation had it's own set of special thematic rules, and their own list of equipment and companies each with it's own organization.

>>50500499
Flames of War is a 15mm (1:100 scale) WW2 miniature game set at the company level covering nearly every theatre of the war. You will command either an infantry, mechanized (motorized infantry with armor support), or armor company tasked with defending and/or capturing an on board objective depending on the mission. Men are deployed as squads or fireteams (2-5 per base), but what you see is what you get. Each fireteam or vehicle represents a fireteam or vehicle. Beyond that just ask any other questions and we can try to answer them. Welcome to /fowg/.

>>50500604
>>50500607

Thanks. What's the gameplay like? Is it divided in phases/turns? Are there any special rules? What should I get to begin playing?

>>50500746

It is IGOUGO turn based, with turns structured into Move-Shoot-Assault which will be familiar if you've played any GW games.

There are plenty of special rules covering things including unusual unit types, fortifications, and the National special rules to give each nation their flavour; however you can get started with the basic rules just fine and then add in complexities as you go.

The starter box ("Open Fire") is a decent place to start, although there's a new edition supposedly coming out in spring, so I don't know whether or not to advise you to go for it, or to wait.

>>50497911
That's why it's an always attacks infantry list with cheap armour. If you're against most infantry or mech you just get used to moving in obstructive terrain and use T-26s to knock out light guns and assault infantry.

If you were doing pansaari seriously you'd just take all your picks as T-34s and KVs.

>>50498500
Yessssssssssssssss.

>>50500401
Yeah, I forgot about IS-2s. Honestly a conscript IS-2 would be more useful than trained ones (especially heroes).

The KPA had tons of SU-76s, they still use them to this day. The problem again is, that its a horde list, and we still don't have a plastic SU-76M. I would probably play KPA, but I'd just be using my Soviets.

>>50500746
Gameplays is pretty standard Igo-Ugo, which makes sense for the scale of it. You're dealing with company-size forces, so it works out alright to have that kind of back and forth gameplay. The game does have three phases, which is the typical "move-shoot-CQC" setup. But close-quarter-combat continues until one side either wipes out all the opposing teams, or causes them to rout and fall back out of close quarters.

All the forces in the game have a motivation and skill rating, which determines everything from what you need to roll to hit them, to how effective they are at unbogging a tank, to how likely they are to unpin from an artillery bombardment. The game also emphasizes combined arms. Spammy-lists do exist, and some do alright. But in general you want a solid mixture of units, which includes the likes of infantry, tanks, artillery, recon (often infantry or armored cars), pioneers, mechanized, AA, air support, and whatever else I forgot. Some unit types, like Recon, are damned near auto-include if you're expecting to be an attacker. Other units, like Pioneers or air support, are a lot more optional.

The main orgnaization lists are called "briefings", and the outline exactly what options you have within that type of company. Briefings come in one of four variant types, Infantry, Mechanized, Tank, and Fortified, which has an hierarchy of attack-defend. So Infantry briefings defend against everything but fortified, and tank briefings attack everything. What you actually take in that briefing doesn't usually change your company type, so it is possible to have an infantry briefing with tank support, or a tank briefing that uses a lot of infantry.

Hey all.

I'm a new guy trying to get some friends to try this shit out with me. My idea is to try and get two decent trial armies together but with enough extra bits to have some choice in the Armies makeup. So like the same 1000 point bases with 2 or 3 alternate 500 or so point builds or attachments. What Army books and Companies sound good for something like that. I'm looking towards the two Normandy books because it's iconic but I'm not sure.

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>>50501979
The Open Fire book is a good place to start for the German player because you get infantry and StuG support that can be supplemented with recon and tanks. It isn't ideal for the Allied player because it gives you British tanks (albeit American made) and American paratroopers. That works with the Market Garden (?) list but not with many others.

Most of the American lists are pretty solid. Germans are generally fine too, though some say their tank lists can't hold their own in high-level competitive environments. Brits and Soviets have some lists that just don't work well, so ask here before you start one. But there's too much variety, and too much that does work, for us to pick some favorites without you narrowing it down first. Tell us what you and your friends like.

Here's what to avoid: lists with compulsory platoons of expensive tanks (heavy tanks or the better mediums like Panthers and Comets); lists with only a few infantry stands (like British motor rifles), Soviet Hero tank or assault gun lists, Soviet IS-2s, lots of American artillery (too good).

>>50498500
They were used against the Finns at Valkeasaari June 9 1944 as a recon by force suicide attack, 14 of the 21 tanks used were lost, mostly destroyed by 20mm AT-rifles.

>>50503449
Dammit stop proving Phil right.

>>50497977
He's new, but yeah. He needs to learn to trust in the mass and armor of his tanks, and also needs to remember that you can't keep repositioning heavy tanks. You send them to a flank, they are COMMITTED to that flank for the rest of the game. Even more important with RoF 1 guns.

>>50500446
We're trying to get him to pick up a classic "gob of T-34s" force or go for one of the vet hero infantry forces. Money is always an obstacle though, especially when he's in college. And him losing exactly two IS-2s over his first 3 games is sadly probably sending the wrong message. "The IS-2s survived, so they're my best units!" instead of "These fucking things have killed three tanks in three games and are costing me half my points".

>>50503489
Best comment in this thread

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>>50503489
Of course, Phil would never admit to how often the Murkans threw bodies at their problems until the enemy slipped on enough guts too.

>>50503831
>gob of T-34s
>Money is an issue

Luckily the T-34 is in plastic. I think 2 boxes will get him closer to wear he needs to be. He can bring a unit of IS-2s in a tankovy list as an ASSAULT force. But I guess at the end of the day as long as he is happy, I guess that's all that matters.

So, total newb here. I have the Open Fire! box. On top of that, I bought a platoon of Panzer IV Js and a platoon of Panzergrenadiers.

Here's where my issue comes in. The Bridge at Remagen book has Panzergrenadiers as MG/Panzerfaust teams. However, I'm not specifically building a Remagen list, I'm just using it to see my options. Every other Panzergrenadier unit I look up just has them as MG teams, no panzerfausts. What do I do?

Also, are panzerknackers any good? Or should I just run a command smg panzerfaust team?

>>50505098
First of all, good job, sensible starting purchases.

Late war, you'll see many options for Panzergrenadiers with Panzerfausts, or even regular infantry with them. And if not by default, they'll have to option to bring them.

Whether or not to model the teams with the 'fausts is up to you. Few opponents will be too stuck up about the exact modeled armaments of your teams, as long as you're clear about them before the game.

Panzerknackers are usually seen in earlier periods of the war, in late war if you have access to panzerfausts they're just better.

>>50505098
You get more panzerfausts in books set later in the war. Desperate Measures has them too. The problem is they make the teams too expensive if everyone has them.

>>50505098
>>50505184
Though 'knackers are 5 points cheaper if you're suffering.

I find I tend to have 50-20 points spare on most lists, though, so it's usually not an issue to slap some 'fausts on everything.

>>50505184
>>50505233
So, no panzerknackers, got it.

So, by teams do you mean each platoon? Or each squad of two bases? Does the whole platoon have to take panzerfausts, or only some of them, to get around the points cost?

Also, what book should I look at buying? I have no specific unit in mind. I have about the same amount of US troops as well, the Open Fire! stuff, and a Patton's Eagles box.

>>50505472
Check out the books in the mediafire, find a particular area of the war you're interested, and go from there.

Grey wolf is the "generic germans" book but there's plenty of books specific to operations such as the Ardennes offensive or market garden

>>50505789
>Grey wolf is the "generic eastern front germans" book
touched that up for you anon

>>50505472
A team is a base, basically. Squads are squads (of two teams), and platoons are groups of 7-9 (usually) teams.

Most late war germans take one panzerfaust as an addition to the command team (so they have an SMG and a panzerfaust), but some books let you take multiple teams as panzerfausts, culminating in what people sometimes call late-late war (LLW), usually stuff in 1945, where the germans get entire platoons where every team is also a panzerfaust. These are hell to assault with tanks, but are expensive as fuck.

>>50506067
So, the platoon is six teams then. Do all six teams need to take the panzerfaust? Or can only the teams with riflemen take them if I want? My command team is SMG Panzerfaust, so I already have one in the platoon.

Also, what do you guys normally do with your excess figures? Buy spare bases for them and use them as support/switch out options?

>>50506350
>Do all six teams need to take the panzerfaust? Or can only the teams with riflemen take them if I want?
Entirely depends on the list you're taking. Some lists every team has to have them, some lists you can upgrade every team after upgrading the command team, some you can give half of them 'fausts after upgrading the command, and some you can only get the command 'faust.

>>50506650
So would you recommend me model them with or without? Again, I'm brand new to this and don't have a specific list in mind, just currently building the units I own.

I feel it'd be easier to tell an opponent to ignore a panzerfaust then say they have them if its not on the unit.

http://wwpd.libsyn.com/podcast
Version 4 interview just went up, have sufficiently little life to now listen to it in full.

>>50506794
Yea I'd just go ahead and put them on there.

>>50506967
I wish they just had a transcript somewhere

>>50506967
>late March but it's on Battlefront Time
>every existing list will have a conversion for V4, rulebook is 110 pages roughly (graphics still in progress)
>example: Bridge by Bridge has half a page of rules edits and "two rules are no longer used"
>explicit admission that EW and LW cards are categorically impossible, MW will not be on Forces because muh cards
>national special rules: Germans lose kampgruppe plus mission tactics, burgers lose tank telephones column security mumble mumble something or other, Hens and Chicks "has changed", QoQ is built into the core rules so isn't Russian specific
>artillery less effective bombarding tanks (all AT values nerfed by 1), sounds like everyone gains Mike Target but just against infantry
>many books for MW (sounds like Italy gets its own?), MW planes are effectively like TY but you only get two in the entire list period
>morale similar to TY
This is boring they've said nothing for 10 minutes.

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>>50495092
>>50496154

....and i would play Opfor, because Norks and Chinese are way fucking cooler hordes than the Charlie and Luke....
(back-culture knowledge)
and,
to get people loving and playing early cold war games. i'd die to see someone love their British early Centurion platoons, Pershings and Chaffees, tiger-faced E8's....

so, i go die....and make sure those bro's have fun playing me.

it's not all about winning.................

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>>50507546
>all that...
>Boring.

you snarky git.

>pic related

i wanted to say 'nigger' but considering most of you are total bro's i will reserve that potent word for anyone who complains about Hen and Chicks after it's 3rd iteration (was the same in 1st/2nd ed.) etc. et al, whatever such.

>>50507675
You can't grasp how incredibly boring this podcast is making V4 sound.
>COUGH COUGH COUGH
>silence
>silence
>so
>silence
>we have a question COUGH
>well you see mumble mumble papers shuffle actually this
Every bullet point I made took a massive amount of effort to get, and there's an entire hour left.

>>50507733
>>COUGH COUGH COUGH
>>silence
>>silence
>>so
>>silence
>>we have a question COUGH
>>well you see mumble mumble papers shuffle actually this

>>50507546
>>rulebook is 110 pages roughly (graphics still in progress)
>>national special rules: Germans lose kampgruppe plus mission tactics, burgers lose tank telephones column security mumble mumble something or other, Hens and Chicks "has changed", QoQ is built into the core rules so isn't Russian specific
I am ok with this.

>>artillery less effective bombarding tanks (all AT values nerfed by 1), sounds like everyone gains Mike Target but just against infantry
>>morale similar to TY
I am not ok with this.

Looks like it's time to make a bastard V3.5

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>>50507937
forgot to add, that's exactly what I expect from the type of people who frequent /tg/

>>50507733
Eagles does a real good job of editing out silences I do have to say.

>>50507937
This, this is exactly what I take painstaking effort to edit out of episodes of Panzerfunk.

The coughing, the lip licking, the mouth noises, the extended silences, etc

Jesus Fuck, I could release a podcast the day after we recorded it if I gave as little fucks as these guys seem to.

>>50507993
Thank you.

>>50507546
>cards
Like what TY uses?
>new MW books
Yay! Mid-war is best war!
>arty not as good against tanks anymore
Fuck you.
>Italy possibly getting its own MW book
And maybe plastic tanks? Eh? Eh? Yeah, who the fuck am I kidding.

What would a Soviet mechanised division look like?

I'm gonna start working on a Vassal module for this stuff because the guy who worked on the one I was following gave up.

What factions are the most played? What should I prioritize when I start making assets?

>>50509236
Hungarians

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>>50509176
No smoking :^)

>>50509236
Everyone and their mom has Krauts. After that, I think if you're doing it for /tg/ you can ask around and see if anyone has the old strawpoll links that saw what factions people played. IIRC it wsas German, Soviet, American, British. Brits+US was larger than Soviets, and the Sherman was used by both. So unless you want to make diffirent sprites for every sherman variant, you can save some effort there.

>>50509236
Sherman, Sherman Firefly, Panzer IV, Panther T-34/76, T-34/85, and basic infantry sprites.

Do you have historical compositions of the Soviet divisions/regiment/battalions/companies/platoons?

>>50509249
They'll be on there eventually.

>>50509279
Thanks and yeah this is gonna be a bit of a stumbling in the dark sort of thing so I'd love the opinion /tg.

I'm on vacation from school for the next month starting this coming Friday so I'm gonna try and crank out some sprite templates to build off of.

>>50509289
This is good specific suggestions.

Thanks!

>>50509303
You may be able to find something like that in Ospreys or ask /hwg

>>50507948
Not okay with artillery being weaker against tanks??

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>>50508398

ok, i see what you meant.

the info that dear Anon gladly condensed is fuckhuge news, though....

artie weaker against tanks? err, what is AT rating?

Hen and Chicks AGAIN??? first time it was "unless you crawl, you tanks are shoot or move" ...then the dreaded +1, can't hit shit either
what now? T-34's are ROF 1 but can double tap at +1 to hit?
>look guys, i'm a .....

***germans w no mission tactics? WHAT? oh holy shit!
oh holy shit!!!
guys, i model my Kraut armies BASED ON THIS PREMISE!!!!
my command models are all Company HQ.....
well....
time to play Finns?!?!?

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a reminder

>>50507733
Probably so silent becausee they were butt blasted by the rules changes and they don't want to offend battlefront sempai.

Are there conversion notes to move the older books to V3? My group would like to get it Blood Guts & Glory for some Patton shit but if it's not useable there is no sense in purchasing it.

>>50511880
Most older books are moved into the compilations. For example: everything in Blood Guts and Glory is also in the bulge compilation (Battle of the Bulge?).

There are conversions for EW and MW, but that is mostly very minor things (especially MW really deserves more, thankfilly it will get it once V4 is launched.

Oh, and also: BGG is already V3.

>>50509911
Might be because I play brits, but artillery is already useless against tanks. And since 25pdrs needed mike target to EQUAL everyone else's baseline artillery in effectiveness (fucking 5+ FP), everyone getting it just makes them blatantly shit. Oh, and we can't get the good 5.5s without having at least the same number of 25pdrs, unlike pretty much everyone else.

>>50511969
Oh well thank you.

>>50509150
Italy is getting a bunch of plastics, but most infantry will remain metal because they can't figure out how to pull them off efficiently.
>>50512082
I'm pretty sure the standard template for, say, a 105 gun is now AT 3 FP 3+ I don't really remember it was midnight.

Since we got more books on the Pacific now do you think we'll ever see WWII era Chinese Briefings? I don't think they warrant their own line of minis (not before the Italians get their own plastic tanks) but it'd be cool to have for completionist's sake.

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>>50512629
>Italians
>all those 8 million bayonets
>they have good plastic infantry
>NOT getting plastics.

it's like they don't understand economy....

>>50513967
It's probably the Bersaglieri being different thing.

>>50506350
Be careful; I suspect you'll find it's seven teams. Six teams in three squads of two teams, and one command team.

>>50512629
Well some plastics will be nice!

I'm amazed, honestly, as BF always struck me as a "you want plastics? Play a real army" style.

Infantry I'm fine with metal, but tanks, cars, and big guns I wouldn't mind being more plastic if possible.

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List I made due to what i could easily acquire, thoughts on it?

>>50516550
Looks pretty good to me, got 8 platoons from the third command tank, two big combat platoons, infantry, two Recce choices, more AT for if/when the fireflie get gun tanked/overwhelmed, and artillery you can easily roll up if needed.

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Looks like we are stuck in the weekend rut. Let's try to survive until next thread where we can have a fit about version 4

>>50521211
But on the note of version 4 I have to say the only thing I am disappointed with is them shoehorning in the 100 point system and unit cards. Using a conversion table to get your list in the 100 point scale seems like an unnecessary pain on the ass when we could have just divided our points by 5. Eh I can live with that. No forces support for MW version 4 is shitty though. Hopefully they will add the lists to blogspot or else I will want to make my own builder.

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>>50512629
fuck. are you kidding? is there another place i can get 15mm plastic bersaglieri because the batch of metal italians i got from battlefront were so bad i ended up getting germans instead.

anyway i have 3 large plastic bases from PSC spare. any ideas what to do with them? i think they're just a bit too small to turn into foxholes

>>50521642
>is there another place i can get 15mm plastic bersaglieri

I think if you want plastics you are shit outnof luck, but peter pig does metal ones. I would order a bit to see what they look like. Other companies probably have metal one that won't look like they've been napalmed.

>>50521642
Note that I wasn't talking about just Italian plastics. BF HATES PLASTIC INFANTRY. It's grossly inefficient for them.

>>50521996
...What are you talking about? BF produces British Infantry for Late and Mid, American Infantry both Rifle and Armoured Rifle, German Panzergrenadiers and Grenadiers, Soviet Strelkovy, AT gun crews, and Artillery Crews? All of the Big Four represented at once. I hardly think they 'HATE' plastic Infantry.

>>50512629
I suspect it's something to do with the small details, remember Battlefront are still getting into the swing of plastics and I've no doubt that they'll do some more Plastic Infantry at some point Or maybe they want to update the quality in metal before they try the leap to plastic. Or maybe they had to give the plastic kit production space to something like Plastic M13/40s. After all the Team Yankee armies all have metal infantry and plastic tanks.

>>50521996
i thought they said they were heading towards all plastic for future releases apart from the old vehicle barrel or something.
specifically it was pete from BF. i could be wrong.

>>50522166
Pete from BF in the latest podcast clearly doesn't think that. He noted that investments in CAD or something might help, but that for the time being they are not big on new plastic infantry.

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So I just picked up a package of HO scale beer bottles and such because they looked about the right size when next to heroic infantry. Turns out there was a LOT of beer in that package. I'm pretty sure I can get 4-5 objectives out of this, but more than 3 would probably be excessive. Plus, that's enough to do a Fighting withdrawl where the objectives disappear because the defenders drank it all/smuggled it away as they fell back.

the plastic german company commander is wearing a cape and has his hands at his hips. would it be poor form to model his ontop of a pile of dead soviets?

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>>50522599
For a Lapland War scenario? :--DDD

Got someone showing up tomorrow to l2p. He bought Stalin's Bears. Wish us luck.

>>50526465
Go nice on him.

>>50526465
Give him paper or a whiteboard to draw up a plan after deployment. Be sure to remind him that it would be very inefficient to try to deviate from the plan in 99% of cases. Also help him concentrate his forces upon deployment. He is still going to get pounded for buying battlefronts meme box.

>>50526465
Use a trained force if possible, it's a bit more forgiving to face for the ROF 1 box.

>>50526465
Ok, this is exactly why we need a "how to get started" guide.

Maybe scrap the "explain the game in exacting detail" design we currently have in the long-abandoned and half complete Noob Guide, and turn it into something that guides the beginning purchases of a brand new player.

>>50527021
I'm bringing a load of Pz IVs and panzerknacker panzergrens, so at least his armour will function as advertised. Might bring them as Trained.

>>50527658
The worst thing is the guy saying "Oooh, a lot of firepower!". It's just going to make him think he has a decent list.

>>50527706
>>50527658
We had one going over the current army intro boxes, but apparently someone forgot to copy it into the OP at some point and it has become lost.

>>50527831
nevermind, it's there, just formatted differently from the rest of the OP sections.

>>50527860
yeah the line break vanished at some point

>>50527860
Right, but let's expand that and make it better. Turn that into the new Noob Guide instead of that long-abandoned woefully incomplete and unhelpful thing we currently have there.

A Getting Started Guide that would actually be useful for brand new players.

Well, we will at least have an excellent chance to reformat the OP very soon...

New thread with slightly tweaked OP:

>>50529755
>>50529755