/wodg/+/cofd/ Chronicles of The World of Darkness of the General

>>50277702
>Well, since the Wyld is the only one of the three not trying to destroy the world... I think the message is both self-evident and not terribly controversial.
Anon, have you ever heard of a thing called "cancer"?

>I can't handle the themes of Apocalypse, all that social interaction and tribal history hurts me
>Only the boring one-trick faggotry of spirit border patrol "Werewolves" can satisfy me
>Shapeshifting for less time than a beer commercial is actually awesome
>So is hunting, my character hunts when he's not on a hunt for hunts
>Stories with depth are boring
>we monster now

>>50282542
You're not even trying.

>>50278628

>And that disclaimer if something one always have to make in NWoD. If i wanna run i wanna run a Requiem game in which the only 2 covenants are Lancea Sactum and Carthians then i gotta put a disclaimer when i pitch the game in case someone was expecting all the covenants.

and if I only want only cam. I have to go no setites. no gios. no lasambra. no assimite. No Tzimic. No salubri. No caps. No sabbot That argument doesn't hold water.


>Here is what we differ, Players might not interact with the origins of the conflict but the backstory informs the conflict itself giving a sense of history and inertia.

No we don't, don't pretend we do. The only thing we disagru about is the narative distance. Putting the exciting moment closer to the players is all for the better.

>Is not inflexible, is a base structure to work from. I can add or substract but as a base i have solid structure as guide while in NWoD i have just a bunch of disparate elements i have to work from the ground up to make something, with sometimes little guidance how to do so.

you're using owod as a tool box, which is exactly what nwod is based around.

>I preffer, small scales fire that are informed and originated from Large scales conflict. OWoD offers me that easily, NWoD takes way more work.

You're going to have to build the small fires anyways. but this is one point, where I can see where you're going. Going Top Down plot.

>And i disagree with this. going with NWoD To OWod.
With how open nwod is designed there's no reason you can't slide the fluff of owod into nwod, and scale up the power and risks. and expand the world threat level. the only thing you lose is scope, and power

>>50282690
>>50282542
Oi.

I've made an /wodg/ specifically for this shit.
>>50282907
>>50282907
>>50282907

>I can't handle Masquerade
>I play Vampire: the Sad Song
>being unable to predict dice rolls with a less than 97.7775% certainty fills me with dread and anxiety
>I need shit like Predator's Taint
>I need a backstory where no-one has a fucking clue about where vampires came from because everyone gets fucking amnesia from periodic dirt naps
>I need Lancea Sanctum because my setting needs more Sparkly Jesus
>I pretend the Crone ladies aren't exactly what I claim SJW's to be
>I deride Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand because a super-secret cult inside a super-secret society controlled by an alien virus is only bad outside of VII
>I am secretly butthurt WW is trying to kill Chrod but I am too invested to say it out loud

>>50282924
FUck you.
The people!
United!
Will never be divided!

>>50282925
>>being unable to predict dice rolls with a less than 97.7775% certainty fills me with dread and anxiety
What does this even mean.

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>>50282925
>VtM

It's like I always say, the mighty cock of oWoD can pleasure the tight canals of Chrod, but Chrod's tiny penis and pencil-like girth cannot hope to pleasurably fill the anus of oWoD. #gayanalogy

huh huh huh... "anal-ogy"

>Error: You cannot delete a post this old.
Goddamnit. We're just going to have to live with this edition war thread.

>>50282979
It means Chrod-Gaijin love their precious statistic breakdowns and never buy character options for anything so passe as "fun" or "character depth". Not when it can earn a demonstrable increase of 5% on rolls of two or more die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>50282924
LOL no-one cared

>tfw everyone enjoys Edition War

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>>50282924
Yeah no, that's not going to happen. Nice try Anon

>>50282690
>let's leave out half the content and call it a "toolbox"

>>50283022
You're thinking of oWoD there, where people would calculatingly exploit the flaws system for every ounce more juice they could squeeze from it.

>>50283022
But plenty of people play CofD and buy things that are fun.
Likewise, plenty of people minmax the fuck out of oWoD. Celerity was a must, and if you could swing it, not taking Thaumaturgy when you have the option means you might as well just cut off your arm.

Not to mention Generation.

>>50283065
Except that's not remotely what was done. Jesus, you people aren't even trying.

Daily reminder that there is only "ONE World of Darkness" in all White Wolf publications and cross-media representation

>>50283077
And yet, nobody in oWoD ever went full Aspie and plotted out probability charts like a Undergraduate Math major.

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>>50283090

>>50283079
>Except that's not remotely what was done.

Sure it was. "Here's half a setting, come up with all the local stuff, mythical backdrop and objective history yourself, we're just going to cash the cheques."

"But aren't you going to put that stuff in the books like you used to with the Classic World of Darkness?"

"No. It's a 'toolbox'."

"Oh... I see. Shouldn't the book have an index?"

"Nope. Building one is an important part of the toolbox experience. Buy more books."

>>50283112
I can tell you are not a veteran of the oWoD debates, flame wars and general net spasms. Yes, yes they did plot out probability charts. They argued about endless stupid shit. They had moronic arguments that make the shitposting in this thread seem like it's rosewater and fruit. They picked every detail, every stat, every possibility clean of the slightest bit of meat they could. oWoD was fucking notorious for the flame wars, obsessions and general bullshit that surrounded its online communities.

>>50283112
uh yes people did. game been around for twenty+ years now. People have done the math

>>50283147
>Shouldn't the book have an index
I'll admit I lol'd, but I don't remember oWoD books having those either. And somehow having worse editing, though that's hard to believe.

>"won't we put out more books?
>"No"
>"Buy more books"
That doesn't even make sense. Your own shitposting doesn't have internal consistency.

You act like nWoD has no setting. That takes profound and intentional ignorance.

>>50283147
>Let's just take real history and make half the historical figures actually really supernaturals.
>Don't worry about writing compelling setting that is great to play in, just write any old shit that focuses on how great all these elders are.
>Boom, RICH DETAILED HISTORY YEAH.
>No, your PCs cant do anything interesting. But we are goning to write some adventures where they can watch the elders do cool stuff!

>>50282924
hey, Retardo-tron, did you notice you'd linked that thread to a MEGA completely absent of oWoD files? Or were you deliberately trying to make your little effort at segregation fail?

When are they going to release news on Hunter 2e? It's been months since we've last heard of it. No, the Beast hunting groups don't count.

>>50283201
>That takes profound and intentional ignorance.

Thank you <3

>>50283250
Actually, I assumed that was the mega that had the most up to date everything.

>>50283264
It's only barely started being written, if at all.

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>>50283264
Probably when Rose Bailey comes up for air from the cross-hatching of cocaine lines across Phil Brucato's buttocks.

>>50283330
But neither of those do Hunter things.
Phil doesn't even have anything to do with CofD. I don't even think he does anything for oWoD other than Mage.

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>>50283385
>Phil does anything for mage

>>50283272
I hoped they'd post open devs like they did a few months ago. It's also weird that there's going to be such a long wait between Changeling and Hunter after Mage and Promethean got released almost back to back.
>>50283385
Bailey is the main writer for HtV IRC.

>>50283385
Rose is head of the Cunter: The Vaginal 2nd Edition project.

>>50283583
>>50283611
... no, Monica Valentinelli is.

>>50283519
>>50283330
>oWoD kiddies doesn't want to admit Phil is one of theirs
If we're going to be playing this stupid game.

>>50283677
>>oWoD kiddies doesn't want to admit Phil is one of theirs
>If we're going to be playing this stupid game.
What game? The games come from the same fucking company, you goddamn mouthbreather. At least oWoD-chinks can fess up about poor quality shit, Chrod-gooks are so invested that they can't bring themselves to criticize Mother Company, and if anyone else dares then they are either "ignorant", the critic "don't understand the source material", the bullshit is minimsed with "other games have done that before" or they simply retort with "go play something else".... ANYTHING but acknowledge the hunking great warts all over their editions.

Geist, anyone? Beast perhaps?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtY5bv-oxLE

>>50283793
>At least oWoD-chinks can fess up about poor quality shit,

You wouldn't know that from these /tg/ threads, where they're just desperate to bash ChroD and talk about how superior oWoD is.

Wow. The OP forums are actually better for discussing the games than /wodg/ these days. Vomit-tastic!

>>50283843
>You wouldn't know that from these /tg/ threads, where they're just desperate to bash ChroD and talk about how superior oWoD is.

Superior? HA! Do you not remember the Brucato Wars? Hordes of outraged fans demanding blood, in this very general, for the fact they paid top dollar for a book (Mage 20) whose editor may well have been legally blind?

>>50283793
>At least oWoD-chinks can fess up about poor quality shit
Have you even been in these threads?

Plenty of CofD fans criticize the "Mother Company".

But that doesn't change the fact that there are a ton of people in these threads who clearly don't understand the game, and probably haven't even read the books. if they did, they skimmed it years ago and that was that.

>the bullshit is minimsed with "other games have done that before"
As opposed to acting like only oWoD exists? It's not bullshit that we're minimizing. I just don't see what the fuss is with half the things people bitch about that aren't at all new or unique. Or, if we want to play the edition war game: oWoD kiddies are just too scared to deal with the new rules.
>they simply retort with "go play something else"....
Well, fucking jee, I guess you should keep playing a game that you hate and don't understand then?

>>50282925
>I deride Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand because a super-secret cult inside a super-secret society controlled by an alien virus is only bad outside of VII

Dirty secret of the black hand is way better than VII, it knew not go full retard. VII went full retard.

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>>50283924
>Well, fucking jee, I guess you should keep playing a game that you hate and don't understand then?

When is RL getting updated? I can't seem to console out of poorfag status

>>50283950
>VII is way better than Dirty secret of the black hand, it knew not go full retard. Dirty secret of the black hand went full retard

yeah I know it can be confusing which one has the space virus and the ghost city in the underdepths, plotting to knuckle down both major sects. But I fixed that for you Anon. No worries

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>>50283956
>Paying for games

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>>50283999
>paying for beer

>>50284081
You can't download a beer.

>>50283793

>Implying White Wolf Cultists cling to one specific product

>>50282945
If the WoDs
Are united!
Then we'll never
Be divided!

>>50285003

The WoDs!
United!
Will Never be Defeated!

>>50283924
Whatever you say, Walter Chrod-kike.

>>50285106

Sviety!
Mei!
Ke Bush wōpéng padzielieny!

>>50285177
I'll give you a 7/10. That was terrible, but I still laughed. Good job making a double pun.

>>50283984
If by "full retard" you mean "ball-shreddingly awesome". No other book allows for super-powered high generation vampire death cultists to stop time and curbstomp entire Sects beneath their cold undead heels. Now that's the Joy of Sects.

VII was a fucking license plate. Besides, "Strigoi Vii" is what Sebastian van Houten and his cronies are calling themselves in paris. The book is a blatant fan service.

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>>50284104

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>>50283147
>>50283147
>Sure it was. "Here's half a setting, come up with all the local stuff, mythical backdrop and objective history yourself, we're just going to cash the cheques."
thats something you have to do with owod unless you live specifically in a city that had a book about it, which most people didn't
>"But aren't you going to put that stuff in the books like you used to with the Classic World of Darkness?"
plus the overall history is in the core book, with specialized history (bloodline/order/auspice) in the books about those
>"No. It's a 'toolbox'."
>"Oh... I see. Shouldn't the book have an index?"
they do?
>"Nope. Building one is an important part of the toolbox experience. Buy more books."
they actually don't have many books to buy
owod required you to get books to understand why aspects of the core had changed

>>50283793
>, Chrod-gooks are so invested that they can't bring themselves to criticize Mother Company, and if anyone else dares then they are either "ignorant", the critic "don't understand the source material", the bullshit is minimsed with "other games have done that before" or they simply retort with "go play something else".... ANYTHING but acknowledge the hunking great warts all over their editions.
>Geist, anyone? Beast perhaps?
nwod fans have been critical of beast from the start

and we showed our disliking of geist by not purchasing it

there's just a couple fags here who like geist so they talk about it all the time, but since they're aspel and atamajakki you know their opinion is shit to begin with

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>>50285243
>superhero gonzo for superhero gonzo

>>50285609
Geist had some interesting ideas, but didn't quite hit the mark. In some way. Still not completely sure why it was a no starter. As a Wrath/ Orpheus replacement it wasn't too bad.

From what I hear it was a rush job, and I can see that in the power arrays

>>50285702
>Still not completely sure why it was a no starter.
because it didn't have interesting ideas

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>>50285768
now you're just being contradictory without substance, please be more productive next time.

Manifestations and Keys Matrix are at least different from most of the other power sets.

Dealing with linger ghosts, and have an actually non humanity integrity trait. are steps we haven't seen before. If nothing its something of a stepping stone splat. and you can see where they were experimenting with the formula

>>50285869
>Manifestations and Keys Matrix are at least different from most of the other power sets.
Yes, but the powers they grant aren't interesting, many of them are just "the same as before but bigger"

the rest of it is just werewolf withotu the shapeshifting and with ghosts instead of spirits

also for some reason they decided to tackle it from a stupid angle (lets make it our happy game)


>Dealing with linger ghosts
its in the fuckin core book
>and have an actually non humanity integrity trait. are steps we haven't seen before.
werewolf has it in possessed
>If nothing its something of a stepping stone splat. and you can see where they were experimenting with the formula
changing up powers was a nice move but something they started in promethean

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>>50285910
>promethean
yeah but promethean had the problem of being a more solo and solitary focused. which makes it harder to play in a group. Giest had a Krew so you could facilitate a more group experience. Plus you could play Giest as GhostBusters and that has its charm

>>50286019
>yeah but promethean had the problem of being a more solo and solitary focused. which makes it harder to play in a group. Giest
it was still a better game

but you said geist was where they first did shit with powers

they did it before that with promethean

>Plus you could play Giest as GhostBusters and that has its charm
you can play mortal as ghostbusters and that has its charm

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>>50286058
>play mortal as ghostbusters
not without some magical Widget

>>50285609

I don't think I've ever said Geist isn't a massively flawed game, and it's the one I'm in the least hurry to play again any time soon, but by all means keep chasing down a version of me you've built up for yourself.

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Stat me.

So reading through WtF2 it seems now there is an alternate name in first tongue for spirit ranks.

Hursih for gaffing.
Ensih for Jaggling.
etc

So where the term Jaggling and their like comes from? It doesnt come from mage because they use a weird system of chess pieces.

Apparently neither does it comes from Werewolf/Spirit because their first tongue is different. So who uses/invented the term Jaggling and their like in NWoD?

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What's your favorite fanart?

I got this delivery from the drawthread recently. An oWoD Viet Cong Nosferatu.

>>50285702
Mostly because Sin-Eaters were hideously overpowered compared to the creature type they most often interact with (ghosts). Even the guy handling the 2e update calls this out as one of the biggest problems.

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>>50282252
>When have you used a non-standard WoD?
Psuedo-cyberpunk WoD set in the Soviet Union
It was crazy

>>50286788
I unironically love the Underworld movies. They're incredibly fun to watch with friends.

>love humans
>not Hunters
>humans will NEVER get any love

>>50287398
Awakening 2e says these are human occultist terms.

>>50289337
Tier 1 and 2 hunters are literally just humans who can risk willpower. And worry not. The Dark Eras companion is supposed to have an update for Second Sight.

Does anyone else think social maneuvering and ephemera have complex rules for something relatively simple?

>>50289672
I think social maneuvering works pretty simply. the Ephemeral flowchart is kinda complex for what it does but it works.

>>50289672

Social Manuvering is fine when you're using it for big social asks that might take some time to achive. I just use a single roll or Social Chases for shorter term stuff.

>>50285910
Promethean 1e didn't change up the powers, though. It just said "you dont' have to buy every dot level!" but that was kind of stupid.

I just read the secret of the covenants dev blogs. When did requiem became a pants on the head retardedly awesome game like masquerade?

Ordo dracul wolf blooded sorcerers? Crusaders deflecting magic with shield like d&d? Fucking sold!

>>50291590
>I just read the secret of the covenants dev blogs. When did requiem became a pants on the head retardedly awesome game like masquerade?
>Ordo dracul wolf blooded sorcerers? Crusaders deflecting magic with shield like d&d? Fucking sold!

Eh. Wolf Blooded vampires was explicitly given in WtF 2e.

>>50291771

I meant stacking of semisplats, wolf blooded/sorcerer/proximi/vampire kind of awesome shit.

And i think wolf blooded turned vampire losses the tales.

>>50289672
I like using it for something like a 'conversational boss battle' gives the social focused character a time to shine. For basic conversations I use the force door rules.

>>50291590
It is even sillier than what I remembered. It also reminds me of why I don't like how Invictus oaths and some Carthian laws work.
>>50291832
They explicitly get to keep their first tell, but it is unclear if they keep the others.

Hello I'm new to the settings, Archmages remake the world but to what extent since i know the other side will push back if they do right? so do they ever use there powers?

>>50292106
In game there is contention if Imperial magic (the magic of archmages) changes reality or if it transports the archmage to an alternate reality which is identical to the effects of the spell.

Ultimately it doesn't matter how imperial magic achieves it's affect. The important thing is that it's god-like in scope and power. The 'push-back' or the pax arcana is a gentlemen's agreement between archamages to not fuck with reality too much and upset the plans of their peers. So naturally an archmage spends most of their time trying to figure out a way to skirt around the agreement without pissing off other archmages or the exarchs and getting erased from existence.

>>50292281
like say they alter the timeline, do they literally erase the souls and all that? or has that retgone level shit never been touched upon?

>>50292326
Depends on the nature of the spell. But yes it's possible for an archmage to retcon reality so something has always been true.

>>50291910
They don't stop becoming Wolfblooded. Why would they lose their Wolfblooded merits? In fact, you can actually *become* Wolfblooded with the Cahalith Gift from the blogpost that makes all non-werewolves suffer Lunacy.
>>50291832
It's honestly not that big a deal, and there were a group of Wolfblooded Vampires in 1e, the Dead Wolves Gangrel bloodline.

>>50289672
No, not really. Social Maneuvering could be a better system (one for more short term things), but I really like it. The Ephemeral Entities thing isn't really that complex either, though that flowchart might make it seem otherwise. It's just to make it so that things don't (usually) pop right into being.
They've also made "Manifestation" into multiple things, to better facilitate things like Claimed and Possessed and Avernian Gateways.

>>50290440
I haven't actually looked into the Chase rules yet.

>>50291590
I don't remember anything in the Secrets of the Covenants about being Wolfblooded. That Ordo Dracul psychic thing is a bit eh, but I hope they work out how to make it less silly.
It's also Crusaders *cutting magic* with swords. Not "like D&D", because there are a ton of settings where people can cut magic. Frankly it's what the Septemi special Discipline was all about to begin with.

>>50292510
>I don't remember anything in the Secrets of the Covenants about being Wolfblooded

From the preview "Some Dragons have developed this Coil to regain the lost gifts granted to them by their heritage as part of a werewolf family."


>>50292510
>but I hope they work out how to make it less silly.

I hope they dont. I like requiem now that it learned the meaning of fun.

>>50292510
>It's honestly not that big a deal, and there were a group of Wolfblooded Vampires in 1e, the Dead Wolves Gangrel bloodline

The deadwolves were incredibly shitty mechanically, they should have just converted spiritus from masquerade and called it a day.

>>50292577
Are there new ones? The only Coils I saw were the "Coil of So You Lost Your Psychic Powers" and "So You Want To Be More Human In The Wrong Way Possible".
Although the Psychic Coil did let you graft pieces of other supernaturals onto you to use their powers. Just stitch a Mage's hand onto your chest and get a few spells.

>>50292613
Oh, I agree. But it was still a thing. Frankly 2e allows for Dead Wolves in a much better way. They're just vampires with Tells. Ideally they'd go Dalu in Frenzy.
I hope to see things like that in the Crossover Chronicle. I feel like those "not-quite-template-stacking" things are the best way of handling Crossover. I made a Wolfblooded Proximus Dynasty a while back, though I didn't save it. Their Paradox Condition was going into Basu-Im as if with the Anger Issues Tell.

Speaking of wolfblooded, how does the Anger Issue tell work? Do you get to pick the rage trigger? Does the character somehow rage because of the general triggers?

>>50292947
You choose one of the triggers on page 103, (or make your own). Personally I find Blood to be the easiest one. Just do like Erin from Attack on Titan and bite yourself. Or cut yourself, then lick the blood.

Note that it's a *Specific* trigger, not at Passive or Common level.

>>50293039
That sounds super abusable. Thanks for the tip.
>>50293062
I'll keep it in mind.

>>50293198
Well, you're still causing yourself damage just so you can get in your "taste human blood" condition to hang with the big dogs just a little, and you're still only a Dalu with no Gifts.

I wouldn't *rely* on it, but it's the easiest to abuse from a narrative standpoint. "Be targeted by a supernatural power" is another good one.

>>50289672
Agree about manoeuvring but ephemera rules seem pretty simple to me.

>>50291832
Who are sorcerers? I honestly don't remember hearing about them. (If you don't count blood sorcery or mages, ofc).

>>50291590
>>50291771
>>50291832
Wolf blooded vampires can be really scary. Imagine regenerating vampires.

>>50291895
>conversational boss battle
Slowness kinda hinders its epicness though.

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>>50293285
You don't use the slow over time version, you let people roll once a turn.

>>50292708
>Are there new ones? The only Coils I saw were the "Coil of So You Lost Your Psychic Powers" and "So You Want To Be More Human In The Wrong Way Possible".

I dont know which coil is the "so you lost your paychic powers"

There is the one that i am talking about the coil of zirnitra that at 5th lets you buy any number of semisplats merit.

The zirnitra scale that is the transplant the hand of a mage thing.

>>50293285
>Who are sorcerers? I honestly don't remember hearing about them. (If you don't count blood sorcery or mages, ofc).

There is a bunch of small magic in the blue book like pyro kinesis or electro electric kinesis and the like.

>>50293305
>>50293327
>Some Dragons have developed this Coil to regain the lost gifts granted to them by their heritage as part of a werewolf family.
Oh, it does say that. I wonder if that was written before 2e or what, because you don't lose Wolfblooded when you're Embraced. Vampires can even perform Rites, if I recall. Someone said The Pack even has rules for playing a Werewolf pack with no Werewolves!

Although 2e has strongly gone with the Hunter sort of gameplay, where things are very "use these rules unless you want to use the real ones", which I strongly like. It lets you treat everything like a slider.

>I dont know which coil is the "so you lost your paychic powers"
The one you're talking about. Zirnitra.
Also, the transplant only requires the 4th dot. The 5th dot lets you take agg to roll things as Rote, which is frankly a bit extreme and not that great a capstone.

>>50293357
"Second Sight" had Thaumaturgists. Though "sorcerer" is a generic term if ever there was one.

>>50293456
>5th dot lets you take agg to roll things as Rote, which is frankly a bit extreme and not that great a capstone.

Under that is the good stuff, with the 5th dot you no longer limited to the number of supernatural merits you adquire.

>>50286788
Dunno. Maybe a Brujah? Or a Toreador?

>>50288651
Same here.

>>50293261
I don't know if a small cut that draws a little blood would cause much damage. It should be one bashing at worse. I don't really plan to run after the big dogs, just to hold my own against semi-trained mortals and the like.

The most I can imagine letting vampire get from mage splat is mage sight, I would definitely not allow spellcasting. Similarly I wouldn't let vampire get werewolf gifts, although I would allow grafting of werewolf pelt to shapechange into wolf.

>>50293357
>>50293498
I see, I don't know much about 1e.

>>50293498
It's not any number of "semisplat merits", it's any number of supernatural Merits.

Also, I'm not entirely sure whether you're limited to total dots equal to your dots in the Coil, or if you're limited to individual powers. The wording implies the second, which sort of makes the fifth dot extra gravy, but not necessarily necessary.

>For every dot in the Coil of Zirnitra, your character may learn a single Supernatural Merit reserved for mortal characters.
So at four dots I can already have Psychokinesis at 4 dots, Numbing Touch at 3, Automatic Writing, and Lay On Hands.

>>50293678
I'd allow them to take single Facets or Rotes, though for Rotes I'd have them cast using something reasonable, like Coil+Skill and no tweaking Spell factors. It would just do whatever the Dragon knows the Mage could do, nothing more. Since you are required to know what they can do.
I also wouldn't allow them to take any passive properties. Maybe something like Mage sight, if they knew the Mage could do it, but not the passive Facets that do things like add bonuses based on Renown.
Grafting Unholy Flesh is very clearly written with stuff like Dread Powers in mind, as opposed to the often much weirder and unusual dice pools of actual template characters.

That second person you quoted is linking the previews for the book that will come out after the heat death of the universe, not 1e.

>>50283112
>being this wrong

So I was thinking of running a Mage the awakening campaign for my group and what tips you might have for me, I was wanting to have the focus of the game be More on intrigue with occasional adventures into other planes to try and get advantages over rivals and was wondering what tips you might have

>>50293847
Read Broken Diamond

Steal most of it

>>50292350
>>50292281
Ok So how do the other lines fit into this, do true fae just get retcon'd out along with spirits and the underworld entities or are there things they cannot alter?
I feel bad for normies just due to timeline altery, its one thing to die, its another thing to never have been born, Reminds me of that one abyssal creature that retcons people Like doesn't that make imperial archmages as bad as them?

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Does anyone know the statics / implications of lower the exceptional success threshold from 5 to 4. Other than it being more common. like how much more common?

>>50293863

not the person you're quoting, but:

where can I find it?

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>>50294127

>>50294127
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?279847-Actual-Play-Mage-The-Awakening-The-Broken-Diamond-(contains-Reign-of-the-Exarchs&s=02a00e5b0c88c48d2d08778975ffbfe2

It's DaveB's Mage game, thoroughly engrossing and made more than one person stop hating Mage: The Awakening (me included)

>>50294107
http://anydice.com/articles/new-world-of-darkness/

>>50293883
Most Archmages aren't going around writing whole scores of people out of existence. It's a magical cold war.

>>50294135
It's not a thing to pirate, it's an Actual Play.

>>50294107
Not having kept up with NWoD, I assume 5/4 is the number of successes you to roll for an exceptional success? Is the target number fixed at anything? Double successes or anything on a ten?

>>50294184
>http://anydice.com/articles/new-world-of-darkness/

Well, that makes me ( >>50294222 ) redundant then. Especially with > Additionally, you reroll and add for each 10 you get

I'm not going to bother counting probabilities for such at my my current BAC.

>>50294107
It wouldn't be significant, it'd help but not by much. That's why you often see skills and stuff that lower it to three, because it makes it quite feasible.

>>50293883
There is currently no official stance. A popular theory (which some of the developers like Rose dislike) is that other supernatural splats have a 'sponsor' either an ascended mage, supernal god, exarch, or oracle that prevents them from being written out of existence/altered severely.

I disagree with that theory. So why doesn't an Archmaster of death just erase all those pesky vampires out of existence? Who knows, maybe they're below his radar, perhaps the curse is fundamentally tied to mortal life, maybe he's too busy making creepy skull shaped artifacts. If you want an answer to that question it's great fodder for a high level campaign.

As for the questionable ethics of magic. If you think Mages are the 'good guys' I've got some bad news for you. But to be fair mages themselves are probably being written into and out of existence all the time, and it's a great excuse for explaining the appearance of a new character if a player in a game leaves or has their character killed.

>>50294150

so I found out, the pdf containing the play is still up.

>>50294346
ffs I can't seem to post correctly today. It was supposed to be:

>>50293727
That also reminds me of exploit from Demon, "Show of Power", which allows to copy other splat abilities (as if it rolled 1 success on it). There is no way I would allow it (that is I were to play Demon, which is sadly unlikely) as it written, but I guess that with dread powers it could work ok.

>That second person you quoted is linking the previews for the book that will come out after the heat death of the universe, not 1e.
Yeah I misclicked, it was supposed to be >>50293456

>>50294107
https://archive.is/0uwAh

>>50294266
You don't have to, it lists it right there.

>>50294305
I don't think she "dislikes" it so much as "fucking hates being asked things that don't pertain to knowledge she'd actually know". It'd be like asking Dave about some Mummy thing.
>Who knows, maybe they're below his radar, perhaps the curse is fundamentally tied to mortal life
Isn't that actually a thing? I mean, it takes Imperial level magic just to remove or add a Template to someone. You have to be like 10 dots tier to even think about undoing all of Vampirism, I'd assume.

I also don't think that poster was assuming Mages were good guys, so much as wondering why we aren't all dead *because* Mages aren't all good guys.

>>50294346
>>50294400
I don't really see a problem with Show of Power either. Though in the Demon STG, they do give "Here's how to do other supers using only Demon" advice.

Also, click the check box next to the name (Anonymous) and then go down to the bottom of the page and hit "Delete" where it says "Delete Post"

>>50294150
I just can't do it. Mine eyes have seen the glory of M:tAsc

>>50294472
Well read that game and maybe you'll be a convert.

>>50294471
>why we aren't all dead *because* Mages aren't all good guys.

Mysteries®

>>50294471
>Also, click the check box next to the name (Anonymous) and then go down to the bottom of the page and hit "Delete" where it says "Delete Post"
Wtf, I'm using 4chan on and off more than 5 years and this is first time I hear about this feature. Thanks brah.

>>50294644
>Wtf, I'm using 4chan on and off more than 5 years and this is first time I hear about this feature. Thanks brah.

You didn't know that you can delete posts?

>>50294471
it was more like this abyss thing retcons people, why dont imperial mages see their comparison as to what they are doing? I mean it is pretty monstrous that people get written out of reality at all

>>50294509
Because the Exarchs have always been the good guys! Or perhaps God. Or the God-Machine. Or the Fey.

>>50294659
I usually frequent faster boards where I don't really care so I didn't miss the ability to do this.

>>50294740
Pride, hubris, ignorance, etc. You're thinking about this the right way. This is the central theme of the splat power and the temptation to abuse it.

>>50294135
Haha, time for pirates!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOo78-B1gf4

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>>50294471
>It'd be like asking Dave about some Mummy thing.
HEY DAVE

CURSED NECROPOLIS: RIO WHEN

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My copy of Dark Eras arrived. Man, this book is a behemoth. No wonder they had to split off the bonus material into a second book.

Pic related. Other CofD books and K.K. Slider for size comparison.

>>50295844
So if Dark Eras is finally printing, think the Companion might be actually moving forwards?

>>50295896
What? Progress in publishing?

The only progress you'll find in Onyx Path is their use of pronouns.

>>50295844

Got mine in, too. This book can seriously stop bullets. With the companion, this would have been a 1000 pager and coming out in 2017.

>>50295945
>This book can seriously stop bullets.

Damn it...I should have ordered a second one and seen if that's true.

How big is Mage in print? Someone was telling me it was like a chemistry textbook.

>>50296018
Why waste a perfectly good book someone else might want to read? Just get the dimensions of your book and enough paper and set it up on a firing range or something. Maybe with thin plywood on either side to represent covers.

Any suggestions or advice with regards to my intro adventure?

Changeling thief breaks into a Mysterium Athenaeum and steals 3 items, one of which is a Mask containing a powerful spirit of Amorality.
He was hired by an Apostate Guardian who could never give up his ego enough to take on a Mask, and was paid in cash and mystical favors. The Apostate wants the Mask to continue his questionable activities without having to worry about Guardian bullshit or morality.
PCs are at least in part Sentinels, and requested to deal with the issue, one of the other items having been a Ladder relic left with the Mysterium for safety, thus entitling them to knowledge and control over their recovery.
Items in the vault are semi-secret and the Mask is especially potent, permitting the wearer to ignore Breaking Points (and their ilk), at the (unknown) cost of the Spirit intruding more into the wearer's mind.
Contents of the vault were supposed to be mostly unknown, however the Guardian Councillor had secret access to records, and now wants the entire matter swept under the rug, to avoid the Mysterium's fury. They also want the Mask, having now realised what it is.
Apostate's hiding with Nameless, one of whom is a secret Seer. And now they want this powerful item as well.

Mostly want to introduce some newer players to the existence and interests of a few factions, do some mystical investigation stuff, and point out that there are things beyond the Mage sphere, while still focusing mostly on Mages.

>>50296040
>Why waste a perfectly good book someone else might want to read?

Because I can. Because it's interesting. Because the book's not going out of print any time soon since it's PoD. Because it's available in digital form and will likely be with us for as long as PDFs are consider standard for archival use.

>>50296150
... you do know that Masques that the Guardians use aren't actual physical things, right? I don't think you could even join the Guardians if you were too wrapped up in your own Ego. And they generally recruit, as opposed to open house.

The Ladder also has it's own Storehouses, and it seems more likely that Censors would be sent to track down the lost items, as opposed to calling in Guardians. Even then, aren't Sentinels primarily concerned with Abyssal Intruders?

Why would the Guardians be concerned about the Mysterium's fury? Why would they want the Mask in the first place? They already have techniques for avoiding Breaking Points due to Masque anyway.

>Mostly want to introduce some newer players to the existence and interests of a few factions
I'm confused at the way the factions are represented in your adventure. The actual events are fine, but the whos and whys and hows are all confusing and don't feel reasonable to me.

>>50287398
They're also holdover terms from Apocalypse.

>>50296231
1. I do understand the nature of the Masque
2. Even Guardians can fuck up and admit bad eggs.
3. The Ladder has their own storehouses, but this was left with the Mysterium a long time ago for study, and then "forgotten"
4. The recovery of the items is initially secondary, they just want the thief, and whoever told him about the storehouse. Because telling Mystic secrets to the uninitiated is a Consilium crime, and dealing with those is a Sentinel problem.
5. The Guardians care because if it becomes known that they know where Mysterium stuff is, the Mysterium will move their stuff, invalidating hard-won intel, and making their job harder. The Guardians in my city are a bit more controlling than normal.
6. The Guardians care, because Masques can only deal with sins you've defined when you buy the Masque, plus that also requires heavy dot expenditure. Plus this Mask does everything. Every damn thing.
7. It's basically a superficial representation of a few factions. Mysterium have and want their artifacts back. The Ladder are trying to keep everyone cohesive. The Guardians know and watch everyone. Apostates ditch the orders for various reasons, the Nameless dislike the Orders, and the Seers infiltrate everyone and are selfish to the nth degree.

What you guys think?


Bone Sculpting
Life •••• Patterning
Resist Stamina
Primary Factor duration.

This spell causes both the arm and leg wrack tilt while it controls a rapidly forming osteosarcoma which is expelled at the end of each turn forming a simple object (equipment bonus equal to potency no greater than size 5) from the skeleton of the subject dealing 1 lethal damage. While many think of this spell as nothing more than an inefficient and unusually cruel attack spell used by left-handed mages it finds occasional use among Arrow life mages for forming last ditch arms and armor and Guardian agents who need a way to temporarily imprison potential threats.

+1 The spell doesn't deal damage to the target
+1 The spell doesn't cause the wrack tilt

>>50294481
>Well read that game and maybe you'll be a convert.

Not likely, while broken diamond is good to show that a Awakening game doesnt have to be a bland pile of metaphysical bullshit it does lack spotlight on the orders.

Except 1 character the rest could have being of any order and no difference would be made in the story.

>>50294471
>It'd be like asking Dave about some Mummy thing.

We all know Dave IS the true developer of mummy. Onyx Path can only afford Dave as a devs so he assumes fake pen names to throw us off.

Is having good social skills in addition to Majesty redundant?

>>50297427
Majesty doesn't work so well if you're socially inept.

I mean, you could maybe get by without them when using it on some normal chucklefuck. But try to use it on a Supernatural or some strong-willed human?
You might have a harder time if you can't back up your juice with some skill.

Has White Wolf even done anything with One World of Darkness yet? I haven't been able to find any info on it.

Give me one good reason that becoming unable to feed on animals/humans shouldn't be tied to Humanity instead of Blood Potency, whether that means actually gaining no vitae from them or just not allowing it to sate the Hunger/Starving condition.

It is a significantly more sensible way of reinforcing a growing disconnect from conventional morality.

The corebook mentions that both Subterfuge and Empathy can be used to read a person's emotions. The differences seem a bit vague.

>>50297512
Elders need the "must drink vampire blood" restriction.
Otherwise they're too damn powerful, capable of gorging themselves on human blood, and combining that with their quite potent abilities.

It's what stops many Vampires from going to Elder level, even if they possibly could, and causes many who do reach that to topor until their potency drops down to acceptable levels.

Plus Humanity is already tied to various other elements of the Vampiric condition, such as one half of the sun-damage formula, and controlling frenzy.
Which I think is a much better thing to have influenced by Humanity that feeding restrictions.

Also it would mean that a drop in Humanity would have a possibly exponential effect, as since you might no longer be able to feed from humans, you would be forced into greate acts of debauchery to get the Vamp blood you need. Causing yet another drop in Humanity.

>>50297491

Two mobile games next month to start off the new metaplot. That's going to be it until VtM comes in some form in 2018 or 2019.

>>50297718
Cool, do we have any info on what VtM will be like?

>>50297491
One World of Darkness? What is this, and why haven't I heard of it?

Quick question about what happens when a nimbus flares defensively in response to another aura effect. Is it visible to sleepers?

The book describes it as having all the benefits and downsides of a deliberate nimbus flare which would mean that it is visible.

A vampire/werewolf/whatever could weaponize a mage by just standing next to them in a crowd.

>>50283793
Fuck you faggot, Beast is fun.

>>50297995
You think so?

Please, explain why. Because I can't see anything you are supposed to DO in it.
There is no drive.

>>50297912
The section is somewhat unclear, however I'm inclined to support your proposition as the alternative (it counting as an accidental flare, visible only in the Supernal World, and thus unable to affect most Supernaturals) seems unlikely.

So yes, if you wanted to trigger a Mage's nimbus, potentially inflicting quiescence and mental trauma on a significant number of bystanders. You could. You monster.

>>50297038
It's still made people interested in Mage when they thought it was bad.

>>50297427
>>50297488
Just because people are looking at you and can't look away doesn't mean you're going to sound smart. Not taking penalties thanks to Awe isn't the same as getting bonuses.

>>50297512
Because as you become more powerful as a monster, you become less able to gain sustenance from weak blood.

>>50297526
Subterfuge tells you what they're hiding, Empathy lets you understand how they feel.
It's the difference between knowing someone is sad and knowing they're lying.

>>50297747
V:V (VtM 5th edition) will be after Gehenna.

>>50297750
White Wolf is back (bought out by Paradox), and they're reviving the World of Darkness (which is the ONE World of Darkness, as nWoD has been renamed Chronicles). Check White-Wolf.com for the cringey trailer

>>50298044
I'm not him, but I can see why it would be, if you play sandbox style. I mean, my love for Geist may come about because my first (and only) group went along with just doing cool stuff and exploring ghost mysteries. If your brood wants to be Vampions, then Beast could be great fun.

>>50298119
>Just because people are looking at you and can't look away doesn't mean you're going to sound smart. Not taking penalties thanks to Awe isn't the same as getting bonuses.
Which is why I guess it also gives a bonus to Presence rolls equal to Majesty dots while Awe is active, huh?

>>50298061
>inflicting quiescence and mental trauma on a significant number of bystanders. You could. You monster.

Excellent. Time to pull a dick move next session.

>>50295844
That's a fucking textbook.

>>50298200
Huh. Fuck me, I forgot about that.
But no, it's still not redundant. Awe can make you decent, but it won't make you amazing if you're a bumbling dumbass.

>>50298061
>>50298208
Does flaring your Nimbus even cause Quiescence? I thought it wasn't visible for long enough to be anything other than a brief glimpse, sort of like a Promethean's Disfigurements. Enough to have an effect, but not enough to see the truth.

So, in the Pack, there is mention of a "Void Eaten" Lodge of Werewolves.
Would that fit best as attuned to outside the Lunar Sphere, or the Abyss?

>>50297750
Paradox bought White Wolf, and wants to unite all of the oWoD IPs under a more cohesive title. This is also why nWoD got renamed CofD, to further separate the two and only have one "World of Darkness".

>>50282252
>non-standard WoD
Have some crack: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10239811/1/Pencils-down-Death-rays-up

>>50298352
Void Eaten I think means void spirits. Lodge of the Cage is Abyss though, I'm pretty certain about that.

>>50297512
Higher BP means that animal/etc blood is comparatively "thinner".

You know how strongmen/weightlifters/etc. eat a shit-ton of calories each meal? BP is like muscle bulk, at some point they simply can't sustain themselves on salads alone.

>>50297747
A game that focuses more on the low-power scale. A 'war for the graves of the Antediluvians' may have happened, a Second Inquisition has happened, and lots of elders and older vampires are destroyed. There are plans to change some core conceits like what makes up the Camarilla and the Sabbat, and it's going to be after some Gehenna-esque event happened (but obviously not any of the Gehenna book scenarios). We have no concrete information, just a bunch of blurbs from interviews. Gimme some time and I can compile everything.

>>50297995
You fell for bait

>>50298044
It's ok. It's petty monsters. They work as an addon to another game, if for some reason another player doesn't want to play the main splat. shrugs. Their main benefit is being able to talk with other monsters, not persuading but at least talking.

Only two things you need to worry about, Satiety (makes sure they swim at the medium levels otherwise they will just take over everything) and people coming after them, that have their banes on hand. other than that they're good to go. Me I still prefer Vamp, but I can see where someone can have fun with it.

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>>50283793
>>50285609
I.. I like Geist.
It's worked great with my group as stand alone and mixing with other lines.
Mechanically it needs a lot of work but I absolutely love the human/Geist dynamic, the underworld, keys and manifestations working together, dealing with ghosts and all the stuff that comes with them.
They're my personal favorite splat to play aside from purified.

I'm kinda excited for the 2nd ed coming out and hope that it's an update/fix and doesn't just invalidate all the old stuff.

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So I'm watching Kindred: The embraced on a Lark. And its not terrible. Mostly its like a 80s-90s soap opera. with all the trappings and problems there within. And if i didn't know better, I'd say its running Requiem instead of Masquerade

>>50298901
What makes it more like Requiem?

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>>50298973
Vamps in Sunlight for one. but thats more of a production problem that otherwise.

lots of little things, no tremere. keeping in touch with humanity is more highlighted.The Nos is a baldy not disgustingly so(again thats production, but I'm counting it as Requiem). Some of the character even thou they're suppose to hate each other act as touchstone, which is really good take(cop and the prince, and several others). Elders aren't talked about. Gehenna isn't talked about at all. Everyone has a very loose sense of kindred (blood sympathy) Clans are skimmed down. Nos Tort Venture Gangrel Bru. but they all act like mutherufcking Daevas so meh? I think we're gotten some kind of Malk rip off in ep3 and there was talk of alchemy, but it's mostly down played. Also no sabbot. Clans have this very tense no open violence, so it's a lot politcal manusvering.

and Yes the Tort is a slut puppy of the prince, controlling him all femme fetal from the bed room. Gangrel are bikers, Venture are old money, Bru are mobsters. and Nos are the boogieman

All in all it feels very much one of the earliest drafts of masquerade before all the complications. and some flexible rules for production issues. A vampire soap opera. It killed an afternoon, and helped me think of a few characters. definitely plot fodder material

>>50298044
Not that guy but Ive ST'ed beast
beast is mostly character driven in my experience, you must remember(and the book should of hammered this home a tiny bit harder) there are only 3 supernatural things beasts really care about;

1 Keeping their bellies at least a little bit full. Not to thin, not to fat.
2 keeping away those dang hero's. The physical ones are easy to deal with, the social ones are living nightmares.
3 Family ties condition/ kinship(beast pro tip: MAX your resistance attributes)

Beasts get a lot from kinship and they can get a fair bit from it as well. The key to writing good kin for your beasts is to give them flaws that can't be easily overcome and motivations that you have to make hard choices with. No kin should ever be that vampire you go hunting with but he doesn't do politics and doesn't have a social life and really he might as well be a robot.

Also, kin means family, a personal bond. Not your friend. You might be kin to a mage circle who just wants you for your mothers kiss(which can really help weaker mages get power fast, like get ritual levels of dice instantly) and will come after you should you betray them. They use you, you learn from them, and in the end your stronger and maybe teach them a lessen in caging wild animals.

You might be the ringer for a pack of wolfblooded in case a real werewolf shows up.

You might be the middle man between all the splats, the guy who gets things while everyone else is too busy doing their own shit to get it done themselves.

Beasts in a world with just beasts kind of turns into a soap opera, beasts in a world with other splats is full of intrigue and adventure.

Its really hard to talk about this game without rambling.

>>50299146
>Femme fetal
Anon I hope you mean femme FATALE

>>50299159
Side question, which book has all the wolfblooded stuff in it?

>>50298378
Chris, one of the writers for Werewolf, wrote a Mass effect WoD hack.

>>50298412
Hue. What a metaphor.

>>50299146
Vamps in sunlight is only a thing in Requiem 2e, and only for low Blood Potency, high Humanity vampires, and it still hurts. Nosferatu in Requiem are also super creepy, which still wouldn't be covered by being baaald.

As the other anon points out, it's Femme Fatale, but also, it sounds like it's mostly more like Requiem only because it ignores a lot of the dumber aspects of Masquerade, like Caine and the Antes.

>>50299221
Werewolf. 2e devotes an Appendix to them.

>>50299159
The problem with Beast is that it has to be character driven, and you kind of have to have other monsters. Which means either having enough system literacy to make non-Beasts with the Beast mechanics, using the CofD core's Horror creation, or using the actual stacks of sourcebooks.

>>50298901
>>50299146

... how the fuck did this discussion move from Facebook to here?

KtE would have been written circa VtM2e, right on the tail of 1e turning into 2e. So things like Gehenna weren't a huge deal, Elders were not the focus of things, and such. Plus the show would've been written for the largest audience, not written 'by fans, for fans' which a lot of people seem to scream about constantly when this topic comes up in any VtM discussion. It was finding its legs, but then got cancelled due to low ratings. Showtime was going to buy it, then Frankel (the prince) died in a motorcycle accident and so the sale fell through.

>>50299283
>Mass effect WoD hack
That sounds like an absolutely horrible idea
How is it?

>>50299334
> Someone brought up beast.
> someone brought up Fatal and friends
> they have a review of KtE
> Boredom and curiosity

sad fate for Frankel. Tragic enough for vamps

>>50299432
My bad. We're having roughly this same exact discussion about KtE on the OWoD Facebook group.

It was definitely finding its feet though and, for all of its flaws, KtE was at least a good example of the alliances and backstabbing and such that goes into a traditional vampire game.

>>50299334
Facebook?
Also, sounds like the Sabbat should have been in it.

>>50299338
https://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Mass:_the_Effecting

>>50299283
Fuck you! Caine is awesome

>>50299664
Caine is vampire superman, as an idea he's interesting as an actual character he's shit

>>50299696
Not the previous anon, but I actually really like all the Judeo-Christian bullshit in OWoD. I think it makes for an interesting backstory to the setting. Not that I'd ever use Caine, but the in-setting concept of him is cool.

>>50299696
>Hating Superman
Now I know you have shit taste

>>50299739
>Liking superman
How does it feel to have absolutely garbage tastes?

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>>50299798
>hating the greatest hero in the history of heros.

>>50299821
>not posting the Superman talking down a suicidal girl and just being with her panel as his greatest hero moment.

>>50299821
What you posted really does sum it up. They try to give him bullshit "I'm so human" melodrama with that, but he really is effectively a demigod. He may not be omnipotent, but save for plot devices, the dude does whatever he wants. It's hard to sympathize or empathize with a character who is on par with fucking Azathoth.

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>>50299858
>implying I was done posting

>>50299873
You completely misinterpret why Superman is so good.
The powers and all that dont mean anything. Superman would be doing what he does regardless of all that. He is simply a good person. That is his super power. There is a reason why Lex Luthor is his main antagonist, Lex is everything he is not. Morally Bankrupt, corrupt, greedy, using his strengths to manipulate people and events to suit him.
Lex can never hope in a million years to physically compete with Superman which is a very rare trait for a comic book villain to have. Why lex is so great is because of that. It is a relationship not based on hitting each other, but one of philosophical differences.

>>50299912
But him being a good person also makes him difficult to empathize with. I'm not saying he's written to be completely flawless and Mary-Sue-esque, but he certainly is written as someone who is good enough to feel inhuman. He's an idealized figure, a propaganda piece, if you will. It's hard to relate to that.

>>50299952
>Him being a good person makes it hard to empathize.
I dont understand this at all, dont you consider yourself a good person?
And yes he is rather idealised. But it is an ideal that everyone should be striving towards. The more real life supermen we have the better the world would be.
What Would Superman Do?

>>50299976
A man that can only do good, and can not fail is not an interesting character. their no dramatic tension, there is no story. The conclusion is known before it is even written. supes is a god, and does not have the same fears man has.

What would supes do? Spues can fly, he doesn't need a car or car insurance to pay or has to worry about a car breaking down. He is a character exempt from the problems of humanity as a whole.

>>50299976
>dont you consider yourself a good person?
That's not really a question I ask myself, in addition to not even knowing what metric I should measure such a thing by.

In relation to myself, I've never found idealizing things to be all too effective. It's easy to pick apart idealizations when you bring in practicality (There should be a joke about Marx in there somewhere). The more idealized, the less human it seems, and the harder it is to really get connected or invested in the moral it's trying to convey.

>>50286788
played out years ago +100

>>50299739
>>50299821
>>50299912
Too bad Superman is mostly written in the dumbest way possible.

"Hercules has a human heart" is a great concept, but they fuck it up in every way imaginable, even when they try to wring what should be relatively easy drama out of it.

As an aside, "superhero saves a suicidal person" stories are really cheap but really effective. There was a Deadpool story I read recently where he saved a suicidal girl by taking her to all this shit (like Hamilton, because he beat the shit out of an old guy who had tickets) and then at the end she still wanted to kill herself, and he took her to a hospital, because he knew he couldn't help. Literally the most realistic and human portrayal of suicidal ideation and it was in a fucking Deadpool comic.
Then again, Deadpool also tackled male rape as something other than a punchline, so the world is topsy turvy.

>>50299952
He's written as a great propaganda piece, though. Which is why him as this totalitarian force working for the government always feels flat as fuck to me, especially when he's paired against Batman.
Fucking Mexican Superman from Gods and Monsters is more reasonable. And I still need to see Commie Superman.
As an aside, I doubt that Superman would actually vote Republican, even though he seems to be a Republican ideal. I doubt he'd be for the deportation of illegal immigrants or the treatment of refugees, since he's essentially both.
Max Landis' comic series (that I should read) is even *called* "American Alien".

>>50300048
He can still fail. And he still has human emotions. That's how you write Superman well. He has human emotions.
In another Max Landis penned story, The Sound of One Hand Clapping (which I can't fucking find part 1 of online), Superman faces The Joker.

He points out that Batman has a rule against killing. Superman doesn't have rules. He just generally doesn't kill.
He's human. More human (sometimes) than the rich dude who can buy anything.

>>50282924
Whether this gets any interest in the future or not, where did "One" come from? I've never heard that before.

>>50300195
>Commie Superman
Red Son. Probably one of the best Superman comics ever written. Its done really interestingly since Superman is essentially the same character. (Idealised good person) just put through a communist lens

>>50300195
>As an aside, I doubt that Superman would actually vote Republican, even though he seems to be a Republican ideal.
I'd like to think a real-world superman would have looked at both Hillary and now-president Trump with disgust (albiet for different reasons)
Yes Aspel, you have a hate boner against republicans because they won't support your lazy ass. We know.

>>50300244
President-elect.
You don't drop the elect until he's sworn in.

>>50300195
>Bringing up politics for no reason
Oh Aspel

Superman like most ideal people doesnt wear his politics or religion on his sleeve. I am pretty sure hes a Methodist christian but he never says that, because why does it matter?

>>50300272
Yeah, but I dont think they are going to reverse it so Hillary wins (despite getting more of the popular vote)
>>50300280
To be fair, Red Son is a pretty amazing comic. I get the feeling that Aspel would hate it though. While it surprisingly gives communism a fair shake and brings up some of the perks of such a society ran ideally, it also dwelves into it's negatives.

Batman as an anarchist though was an interesting touch.

>>50300195
>rich dude who can buy anything
Still the same problem man. He's not a person he's an ideal. At least Batman is a mortal man, and has to buy and train himself to be on the same level.

Supes is exempt from humanity's problems. he doesn't have to train to be strong, he just is. He doesn't need a flak jacket, he's just bulletproof. He doesn't need a car or a plane to travel the world, he just flys. He's an Alien god trying to understand humanity's fear by proxy.

Humans fall, they fail and have flaws. mostly because we have very real limitations. Supes does not. He certainly not more human than bats, who knows and understands humanity's darkness as well as its light. and has to struggle physically, mentally and emotionally. Pysically he trains his body to it's natural limits. As a mortal thats not much, but man is it brutal to try. Mentally, he has to use supercomputers to research, and his own wits in tight spots, Emotionally He fails quiet a bit. He hardens and distances himself.

>>50300315
Except that Batmans ability to resist pain, injury and willpower is inhuman. I mean fuck the fact alone that he is apparently trained in over 300 styles of martial arts is impossible to achieve in one lifetime.

>>50300244
ohmygod stfu about politics stfu about Aspel. No one gives a shit about either of those topics

>>50300354
Why don't you put the whole world in a bottle, Superman?

>/wodg/ - Superman Discussion General

I mean I enjoy Superman and usually can be baited into the arguments about if he's a good character or not, but we have a whole board for this.

>>50300330
and supes gets all of that for free is any better?

Bats trains himself to be the utmost limits humans can achieve.

it's way playing a mortal with 5rev5sta5comp is still a beast.

>>50300354
That wasn't me.
>>50300244
Whine whine whine, who gives a shit?

>>50300280
>Someone mentions that Superman is propaganda
>They literally added "the American Way" during the Red Scare
>???

>>50300303
>Methodist
You do know he's meant to be the Jewish messiah, right? You think "Seigel and Shuster" are good Christian names?

>>50300309
>Implying I'm a tankie
Communism isn't real Socialism.
Also, I need to read this for an Anarchist Batman if nothing else. I hate how he's always portrayed as a totalitarian nutbag who wants to personally enforce his own view of justice, and prevents anyone other than his deputees from doing the same. There's currently a series going about Mother Panic, a non-Bat vigilante, though I haven't read it on account of comic books being a byzantine mess.

>>50300315
>>50300330
My point is that Superman is more human than Batman.
And Batman is really only human due to a setting where the creators can decide what is and isn't human. Superman has the potential to be a great character (he unfortunately usually isn't).
But he does certainly have his moments https://youtu.be/AJNayAQG-r4

>>50300438
>You do know he's meant to be the Jewish messiah, right? You think "Seigel and Shuster" are good Christian names?
So just all the times in the comics where he goes to a Methodist church? Sure.

>>50300438
>Superman is more human than Batman
Your confusing Morality with Reality

Supes doesn't live the same life of mortal man. Bats at least has most of the biological issues of being a human and therefore understands the very real needs and fears of man.

Morally Yes Supes is better than bats, but thats ONLY because he can afford to be, and doesn't have to deal with the issues of being human. He's bulletproof He wouldn't die in a car crash. bats will, and therefore bats going out with all the other superheros and there threats is way more brave and honorable, than supes slumming it against mortal gangsters

>>50300438
Oh, he's still portrayed as a nutbag although from what I can gather about your political view I think you'd still hate how it ends.
>Communism isn't real Socialism.
An actual communist would disagree

>>50300518
Does he? Huh. I would have assumed they'd not show his religion at all. I also remember hearing he was Jewish in the comics. Must be different writers.

>>50300544
When people use the term "human", they generally don't mean "biologically a member of the genus Homo, species sapiens, subspecies sapiens". When I say that he's more human, I mean emotionally. He reacts in ways that are more human, he cares about things that are more human. His personality is more human and relatable than a revenge driven nutjob who enjoys physical violence far too much for someone who claims to not kill.

Also, Batman is also slumming it when dealing with gangsters most of the time, which is annoying, because gangster level bullshit is where Batman stories are at their best.
Batman also wouldn't die in a car crash. The man is human only because the comics tell us that he's human and they get to be the definitive authorial authority.

>>50300574
How does it end? My dislike of comic stories that haven't been distilled down to made-for-DVD movies is more likely to make me hate the ending.
Also, let me rephrase: Stalinism isn't Socialism. I don't even think it's technically Communism. It also doesn't matter whether someone agrees, it literally doesn't fit the definition, as Socialism is primarily defined by worker control of production. Even in Marx's philosophy, Communism is a stepping point towards true Socialism, and not the state controlled totalitarian fascism of Stalin.

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>>50300643
>Superman isn't Jewish
>Emotional weakness isn't Human
>Batman wouldn't die in a car crash.

Well if you're not going to take this seriously

>>50300643
>Does he? Huh. I would have assumed they'd not show his religion at all. I also remember hearing he was Jewish in the comics. Must be different writers.
you assume wrong, there's no synagogues in smallville

>>50300643
>His personality is more human and relatable than a revenge driven nutjob who enjoys physical violence far too much for someone who claims to not kill.
look at yourself
nothing is keeping you from going out and having a life but some bullshit hangup you have about not working and blaming everyone else for it

revolving your life around a psychological crutch is far more human than supermans "do good always"

>>50300718
But Superman does have emotional weakness. More so than Batman.
And Batman wouldn't die in a car crash. He's literally been in several. Hell, Superman crashed his car in the most recent movie.

>>50300722
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of "depression"? I'm also not sure what point you're making, other than feeling the need to insult someone you know on an anonymous image board.

Superman is human because he has more reasonable emotions than "I'M SAD BECAUSE MY PARENTS DIED AND I'M RICH".
Although it does seem reasonable that Bruce clearly has PTSD from watching his parents get shot. I don't think any Batman comics have really touched on that, though, since Batman is another character who's got tons of potential but is barely written well.

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>>50300750
>body armor, seat belts aren't a thing

>>50300643
Superman's a communist in the comic. Not a Stalinist, an outright communist. He actually replaces Stalin as the premier quickly into it, and things actually go smooth as silk for a good while with Braniac at his side. But...

In the end, he goes totalitarian as you would expect. This includes having to monitor, spy and brainwash people to avoid people being influenced by the anarchist Batman. After years in hiding, Lex Luthor runs for president and brings the US up from the point of collapse. It's the only country that has avoided communist rule at this point.

I recall Brainiac convincing Superman to invade it, although the details I forget. Nonetheless, he manages to cause Supes to effectively retire when the first lady gave him a small note reading "Why don't you put the whole world in a bottle, superman?" (refering to the bottled city of Kandor, which Supes kept as a pet project)

Lex Luthor takes ahold of the now-retired Superman's position. The ending notes that over the span of a large but unspecified amount of time, Lex and his future offspring manage to turn Earth into Krypton.

The comic ends with what can assumed to be Lara Lor-Van and Jor-El sending Kal-el to the past - Communist Russia, to be exact - because the high elders simply have given up trying to proceed technologically anymore

Told you that you'd hate it. TL;DR Lex Luthor and capitalism win!

>>50300804
last spoiler, correct spoiler

>>50300750
>Are you unfamiliar with the concept of "depression"?
not just that but with associated treatments
you're not even trying

>Superman is human because he has more reasonable emotions than "I'M SAD BECAUSE MY PARENTS DIED AND I'M RICH".
thjats not an emotion, it's a thing that happened to him
he's not driven by being sad
he's driven by wanting it to not happen to other people
>Although it does seem reasonable that Bruce clearly has PTSD from watching his parents get shot. I don't think any Batman comics have really touched on that, though, since Batman is another character who's got tons of potential but is barely written well.
of course they have
do you even read comics?

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>>50300835
Don't bother with that Anon, Anon

That Anon is a very very Sad Anon who hes a hugbox and a safe place. and walked onto 4chan. Sad

>>50300801
Batman can bench press three hundred fucking pounds while trapped in a Goddamned coffin, and in many incarnations he wears what might as well be a wetsuit. He has escaped from inescapable death traps on numerous occasions, and been thrown through FUCKING WALLS. He regularly survives being shot, stabbed, beaten, and in some cases bitten by a ten foot tall crocodile man. And you have trouble believing that he can survive a car crash?

>>50300804
>He actually replaces Stalin as the premier quickly into it
Superman actually being in charge sounds dumb.
Also, ugh, that sounds dumb. You said this comic was an idealist Superman. All that totalitarian bullshit sounds more like something Batman would do. (Or has done).

Also the ending actually does sound good, but I like closed loops.

>>50300835
You know nothing about me, and assumptions are bad.

And Batman is very much driven by being sad. Compare him to Tim Drake, who's *not* sad, and does things like laugh and get laid and have "fun".

There are a lot of comics. Tell me the one where Batman is treated as having actual clinical PTSD. Batman comics actually have a really shitty approach to mental health, where no one is ever savable, and most therapists are quacks who are shysters looking to write books, hippies who think hugs cure everything, or both. The Joker in Dark Knight Returns is the worst example, though Arkham as a whole being useless is another one.

>>50300888
>He doesn't realize that 4chan is just another hugbox

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>>50300972
Dude if you just want to fuck superman you can go down to the gayclub for superthursdays. They've always got a bear in rednblue spandex, willing to plow big fat asses

>>50300972
>You said this comic was an idealist Superman. All that totalitarian bullshit sounds more like something Batman would do.
I still stand by it. He notes once that 'it doesn't even rain unless everyone has an umbrella' under the rule of him and Brainiac.

The line "Why don't you just put the whole world in a bottle, Superman?" ends up defeating him as he realizes that he is effectively babying his people, reducing them to a state of impotence and dependence.

Then again, I don't think this moral dilemma would really phase you, given what I can gleam from your political views.

(You can actually watch that chunk from a motion comic @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOc-xHXAjr8 )

>>>/co/

>>50301013
I actually prefer Batman over Superman, but it's true that Superman is mostly written really poorly. Usually with stupid Silver Age bullshit, or depowering, or being """killed""".

>>50301096
Iunno. Doesn't sound like idealism to me. The one man standing against all adversity is more ideal than the benevolent dictator (and I've been joking that democracy failed and we need a benevolent dictatorship run by a robot programmed for Utilitarianism and maximizing happiness). Superman should be written like that one Captain America page from Civil War. You know the one, with the Mark Twain quote. I'm too lazy to look it up.

It's not a bad moral dilemma, and I don't mind it "because of my political views". It just doesn't conform to what I want out of Superman.

Though >>50301137 is right. I'll watch the motion comic anyway, though

>>50301096
Wow, I'm sure this is better in writing, but that literally seemed more impressive when I read it in your comment than actually watching that.

So someone said something about the Nagaraja being... created by stolen Setite vitae and empowered by the DORK SIDE? Did I get that right?

Did any replacement for The Black Blood (ghouling of wraiths) for Revised ever appear?

>>50299976
There are no truly good people. We're all inherently selfish deep down. We have to learn to be "good", to care about others as much as or more than ourselves.

>>50302256
>So someone said something about the Nagaraja being... created by stolen Setite vitae and empowered by the DORK SIDE? Did I get that right?

Yeah, the guide to the true black hand covers it. They're essentially a Setite bloodline created artificially through crazy ritual magic. Which is fitting given their name, I guess.

>>50302496
Keep in mind that that is just your personal opinion and authors really don't need to tailor their work to kowtow to every corner case.

The idea that being "good" means valuing yourself less is the most spineless, weak, and pathetic viewpoint I can imagine.

Some people put their needs first, others put the needs of others first; either is fine. You (the figurative you) are certainly a human being of at least normal human value, and so taking care of that person is as legitimate as taking care of anyone else.

Many societal problems stem from not caring about others enough; but of course, many societal problems stem from not taking care of oneself enough, either.

>>50302523
Ah nice, that weird ass book always has something new I never noticed. Widely disliked, but very fun.

Out of curiosity, what do you view Sanguinus as being used for by the Fleshy Collective? By RAW, it only works on blood brothers of the same "chapter," so do you think its intended to be used on other Fleshy Collectives, or what?

Dumb question time:
You can only follow a legacy if its parent path is the one you awakened to, right?
You couldn't be for instance, a Moros following the Transhuman Engineers?

>>50303508
You can join a Legacy is you're either part of the parent Path, parent Order, or you have the spell their first Attainment mimics as a Praxis.

Which basically means anyone should be able to access any of them with some time+effort.

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>>50300972
>Batman can bench press three hundred fucking pounds while trapped in a Goddamned coffin, and in many incarnations he wears what might as well be a wetsuit. He has escaped from inescapable death traps on numerous occasions, and been thrown through FUCKING WALLS. He regularly survives being shot, stabbed, beaten, and in some cases bitten by a ten foot tall crocodile man. And you have trouble believing that he can survive a car crash?

And he was a god too.

>>50298352
My intent there is Stuff Beyond The Lunar Boundary, but death of the author and all that - if you've got a cooler idea, run with it and run hard.

For me, giving Luna a more clear-cut role as a boundary god also means giving something relevant to be a boundary against, and I'd like to explore the notion of the void and what's out there a bit more.

>>50298398
Were I using the Cage as antagonists in an Awakening game, I'd probably link them to the Abyss - same with the Tindalosi. How I envisage them in Forsaken in metaphysics, though, is not directly Abyss-linked (my initiall idea was that the Cage are exploiting a deep Shadow pocket of powerful resonance relating to incarceration, while the Tindalosi were birthed from the damage done to space-time by fall of Pangaea - none of this is official, just my musings).

>>50299338
Worked out fairly well, if I say so myself. My players certainly enjoyed it enough that they started running their own campaigns with the ruleset.

A whole bunch of stuff like using lots of armour and having ablative shield health levels actually produced a surprisingly functional combat side of the game when married with the core nWoD combat rules.

>>50303518
Nice to hear they're no longer bloodline cut and paste.

What uses could a character find for Prime spells in a non-Mage game

>>50303795
Damaging things

What are the implications of spirit x werewolf romantic pairings? I realize that most spirits probably don't get the idea, but some presumably would, especially spirits who embody the concepts. Is it unethical to bang my wolf-spirit touchstone? Is it unethical to hit on a lune?

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>>50303795
Motherfucking Platonic forms.
Ephemeral Enchantments.
"Truth" applications.
Universal counterspell works (I assume) on non-Supernal Magic.

>>50303939
Harkness test should solve all of your problems.

Why do people recommend the Requiems clan book?

I took an interest in Requiem after reading about the covenants but everyone keep recommending the clan book so i read the Mekkhet one.

It was the worse problems with OPP/WW writting in one book.

All fluffy pieces with unreliable narrator? Check.

Shitty font that makes it hard to read? Check.

Background stuff that isnt important? Check.

From what i read from Requiem, Clan is not important unless the DM wants it to make it a thing, so all that backstory about egypt seem incredibly useless. I am missing something? Maybe i just pick the worst clan book? I though i was reading a "how to play X clan today" and not "Meaningless backstory to clan which is as political significant as your hair color".

>>50303688
>My intent there is Stuff Beyond The Lunar Boundary, but death of the author and all that - if you've got a cooler idea, run with it and run hard.
>For me, giving Luna a more clear-cut role as a boundary god also means giving something relevant to be a boundary against, and I'd like to explore the notion of the void and what's out there a bit more.

Yeah. My problem here is that there isn't too much about that beyond the border yet. Which means I kinda default to Abyss. Bad habit, I know...

>Were I using the Cage as antagonists in an Awakening game, I'd probably link them to the Abyss - same with the Tindalosi. How I envisage them in Forsaken in metaphysics, though, is not directly Abyss-linked (my initiall idea was that the Cage are exploiting a deep Shadow pocket of powerful resonance relating to incarceration, while the Tindalosi were birthed from the damage done to space-time by fall of Pangaea - none of this is official, just my musings).
This (version) does sound like the Tindalosi are literally abyssal then. Birthed by a timeline that no longer exists, and stuff like that. Feels to me like the Prince of 100 000 leaves, and other fun guys.

Anyhow, what linked the Cage to the Abyss in my mind was the line about "gibbering and shrieking sorcerers with mutilated souls who spit fire and shout apart reality."
The Abyss is the #1 go-to thing to drive sorcerers mad!

Thanks for the response though!

>>50304034
>From what i read from Requiem, Clan is not important unless the DM wants it to make it a thing, so all that backstory about egypt seem incredibly useless. I am missing something? Maybe i just pick the worst clan book? I though i was reading a "how to play X clan today" and not "Meaningless backstory to clan which is as political significant as your hair color".

Yeah. You dove into it in a kinda bad place for what you wanted.
Since the clans are much less important in Requiem than in Masquerade, the Clan books are used solely for mythology building.

Is the Belial's Brood supplement any good? Does it develop them into something more than the Sabbat with Satanism and no real goal?
>>50304034
Well, Mekhet has the Norvegi, who are quite popular around here, and the followers of Set, who are some of my favorite antagonists in VtM. But yeah, clan books aren't that great. I read Ventrue and Mekhet and I found both pretty bad.

>>50304090
>in a kinda bad place for what you wanted.
>Since the clans are much less important in Requiem than in Masquerade, the Clan books are used solely for mythology building.

So then i should not bother reading them, gotcha.

Anyone has good recommendations for Vampire books.

>Chronicler's Guide
>Damnation City
>Ghouls

Are any good/compatible with 2nd Ed?

>>50304797
>Well, Mekhet has the Norvegi, who are quite popular around here

They are popular? I always pitch them as perfect example of why bloodlines in vampire are shit.

They get a HUGE disadvantage in exchange for one of the shitiest powers. They have the poor`s man Gangrel claws.

>>50304905
Ghouls is meh and completely outdated. A book about ghouls and dhampirs is supposed to come out eventually, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Chronicler's Guide is outdated, but I've heard good things about it. Dunno about Damnation City.

>>50304905
I haven't read Damnation City myself, but apparently it's one of the best books in the line.

>>50304922
Agreed. I think it's because they're cool more than anything else, and Bloodworking does get really powerful at high levels. Bloodlines are mostly for flavour anyway.

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>>50300438
Superman isnt the jew messiah because he didn't enslave the goyim and claim all earthly territories in the name of Israel. He also never bit off a screaming baby's penis.

>>50304905
Ghouls can give you ideas on how to roleplay and present ghouls, as a lot of people have issues wrapping their heads around them.

Chronicler's Guide is full of options and storytelling material, so you can use it mostly. Some mechanics might need adaptation, but overall it works.

Damnation City still works as far as city building, and the mechanics don't even need much work as it's just skill bonuses or merits.

>>50304922
People seem to love the Norvegi because MUH TZIMISCE WUT DO DEY DONT IN REQUIEM.

>>50303963
>Implying gronk isn't a great come on
You clearly don't speak dragonsnake

>>50305018
>He also never bit off a screaming baby's penis.

I dont know about that, the DC rebirth is young.

>>50303743
They were never a Bloodline cut and paste.
Frankly, Legacies in 1e would have been better if they were. I'm actually still not all that fond of 2e's Legacies, since they require you to go to fuckoff high levels of Gnosis that I feel player characters shouldn't really have.

>>50303939
Unethical nothing, it's probably a terrible idea unless your Pack draws power from them and you want to strengthen them. Sure, fuck the Spirit of Lust to empower your Totem, but that's still probably a bad idea.

>>50304034
>>50304090
I don't remember anyone recommending the Clan Books. Hell, just watch The Gentleman's Guide to the clans on Gentleman Gamer's channel.

Though the Ventrue one does have some good stuff, with nonstandard examples of Clan like the Rat King and Trailer Park Lord.

Also, just because clan doesn't necessarily have direct political significance doesn't make it meaningless. Clan isn't the sole determiner of everything you do, but it's still a thing that often means something. There are even plenty of Bloodlines that are soft faction locked.

>>50304922
>>50304797
Do people like the Norvegi? I see them come up as "these are your Tzimisce", but they're terrible at that, and their Bloodline Discipline is a great example of why they should do it the way they're doing it now instead.
>They get a HUGE disadvantage in exchange for one of the shitiest powers. They have the poor`s man Gangrel claws.
They can drink blood without using their mouths, absorb blood around them like Kaine, harden their skin, create Wolverine claws, launch Aggravated damage quills for some stupid fucking reason, and can even go full [Prototype] and explode out a giant shower of quills.
Their power is incredibly powerful in a "this is stupidly strong" sort of way.

>>50304080
>Which means I kinda default to Abyss. Bad habit, I know...

If it ain't in an Awakening book, odds are that it doesn't have anything to do with the Abyss.

>>50305327
I know, I know. But when the books start talking about the madness inducing void beyond reality, it's easy to make the connections.
Especially if it is as with the fifth dot of the 1e Wisdom Gifts, and is uses Abyssal mechanics...

>>50303963
>Motherfucking Platonic forms.
I had this alread

>Ephemeral Enchantments.
What's this?

>"Truth" applications.
Cool

>Universal counterspell works (I assume) on non-Supernal Magic.
That would be nice

>>50305628
>What's this?
Same as in 1e.

>>50305327
Hey, a lot of stuff makes oblique references to other game lines.

>>50305628
How did you have fucking Green Lantern powers already?
Also, what non-Mage game are you using Prime in?

>>50305265
>but it's still a thing that often means something

Such as? I mean aside from bloodlines and stereotypes, like Daeva are passionate and all that is there something else?

>>50305265
>I don't remember anyone recommending the Clan Books

In the OPP forums they are recomended as if they were the best sourcebooks from vampire.

>>50305756
Clan is your vampire race. It's still the kind of thing that can come up, even if it isn't actually obvious from looking at you. The Clans often group together (more than I'd like, honestly), even in 2e.

>>50305743
>How did you have fucking Green Lantern powers already?
Meant I knew about that use already.

>Also, what non-Mage game are you using Prime in?
Variant Spirit-claimed that are claimed by Supernal entities instead

>>50305756

You have to realize that the forums are looking at sourcebooks from a fluff and a crunch perspective. The VtR Clanbooks are neat because they all tell a single major story through five individual ones that set the stage for later setting material, and that's why they're considered some of the best to a lot of people. There's certainly crunch, but it's the strong fluff that made them memorable.

For beloved sourcebooks with more mechanical and gameplay support, Danse Macabre and Damnation City are going to be more your speed.

>>50305906
>You have to realize that the forums are looking at sourcebooks from a fluff and a crunch perspective. The VtR Clanbooks are neat because they all tell a single major story through five individual ones that set the stage for later setting material, and that's why they're considered some of the best to a lot of people. There's certainly crunch, but it's the strong fluff that made them memorable.
No, that can't be true, everyone knows that Requiem has no setting and the developers were just super lazy and they didn't do any worldbuilding. I mean, if they did, there'd be ancient vampire lords biding their time in torpor!

>>50305906
>The VtR Clanbooks are neat because they all tell a single major story through five individual ones that set the stage for later setting material, and that's why they're considered some of the best to a lot of people
Frances is my mekhet waifu. I was so pleased when she reappeared in Blood and Smoke fiction with that one douchey ventrue kid.

Who's the developer on Beast supplements?

>>50305985

Matt McFarland, who also does Promethean, Changeling the Dreaming 20, and was co-dev on Demon: The Descent when the line was running.

>>50306022
Wow, why is Beast so iffy then when Demon's pretty great and Promethean isn't half bad if you're looking for that game's specific offering?

File: twee goth waifu.png (1MB, 854x964px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 854x964px

>>50305977
TWEE
GOTH
MURDERER

>>50306112
Poor editing combined with a hasty rewrite because idiots couldn't see the preview draft as anything other than rapemurder: the game.

>>50306178
But that's the Beast we got too. The lessons constantly bounce in the text between shitty justifications that Beasts use for their cruelties, since they gotta eat too, and things the Primordial Dream actually is supposed to do and they're fulfilling a purpose.

Pick one, book. Or wait, better yet, include an actual beast social structure in there like with vampires or werewolves and maybe make those two points of view actual political and religious camps you can side in and argue over rather than the whole of their society being an undefined 'family' web and involve nagging people into falling in line with the standard model of behavior.

Seriously, I think a lot of problems with Beast as it is could be resolved without needing to fix those inconsistencies there or about Heroes, but write the different opinions in setting as theological/political camps.

>>50306212

You'd think this would be what Hunger should flesh out into, but it doesn’t. It's real weird that the existential monster game doesn't really want to tackle the philosophy of being a monster without any natural purpose.

>>50306122
Huh. Her evil shadow-clone has bigger boobs.

>>50306212
>Seriously, I think a lot of problems with Beast as it is could be resolved without needing to fix those inconsistencies there or about Heroes, but write the different opinions in setting as theological/political camps.

Yeah. But we haven't really seen any social groups since Hunter. At best the splats have had ideologies (Demon, Mummy), at worst they have nothing (Geist, Beast).
I think it says a lot that the two games with the least structure for the characters are the least liked ones.

>>50306338
Its just how she is lifting her arms and beating on the glass pulling the opening wider.

>>50306022
I don't think he does Dreaming.

>>50306178
To be fair, the final draft is a lot better in most every way, even if a lot of the flack the leaked draft got wasn't actually as bad as people treated it (oh no, they said Gamergate are the bad guys, how terrible!)

>>50306212
I remember nothing about the Lessons being a thing from the Primordial Dream. It once served a purpose, but now Humanity is too big and great and vast. That's why both Heroes and Beasts are sturgeons pretending to be sharks.

The social thing is actually really frustrating because that seems to be the thing they want to do with all their books now. Geist had the same "there are no social groups" schtick, and technically Promethean did before that. Deviant seems like it's going to do the same thing. With Demon it's barely noticeable, but Agencies are build-your-own, and the Agendas are closer to Refinements or Archetypes, even if the fluff treats them like Clan (note that Agenda gives you nothing other than a +3 in certain occasions, and is nothing more than your philosophy; no one will know your Agenda unless you tell them, and Unchained are unlikely to tell the truth).

You could even argue that Hunter doesn't have that either, since other than the conceit of Philidephia ("Everyone is on their own and works together if need be") there isn't much crossover between the Orgs, but at least that has some inter-Org political groups.

>>50306338
Eh. Look the same to me.

>>50306387

He does. He is the current developer of Dreaming. It's his voice on the dang Kickstarter, Aspel: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/deluxe-changeling-the-dreaming-20th-anniversary-ed

>>50306212
>Pick one.
Teaching lessons used to be their part in the system. Humans would fuck up and a beast would get involved. This would grab the attention of the local hero, who were supposed to be wise men and shit. The hero would check shit out and in the process figure out what was wrong and how to fix it.

Fast forward a few thousand years and this system no longer works. Humanity has grown too large, the Temenos is too noisy for this shit to work any more. But the Primordial Dream keeps shitting out beasts and heroes. Beasts cling to their original purpose but deep down they all know they're just lying to themselves. They do far more harm than good but they're not about to just roll over and die.

TL;DR: Beasts have no purpose anymore but would rather pretend they still do than admit they are cancer.

>>50306387
>I remember nothing about the Lessons being a thing from the Primordial Dream.
The Primordial Dream supposedly teaches wisdom to people, and Beast lessons are just that being done with individual flair. Or wait, the Primordial Dream is still doing it fine! Or wait no, the human race is too big and it isn't working!

Either way, the other gamelines have other shit going on that the lack of social groups doesn't quite bring down as hard. Beast would however benefit strongly, casting things in a different light.

>>50306466
Overly depressing and overly dull. I think the two most important things to handle are A. making it so that Beasts don't necessarily have to do harm, and B. ensuring the Heroes are genuinely evil and villainous.

>>50306387
There's definitely some good things that came out of the rewrite but it fucked up the editing something fierce because of how rushed it was. There's two separate sets of penalties for opening primordial pathways in completely unrelated parts of the book and it's not clear what the intent is.

>>50306331
Hard to fit that in between feeling angry because people treat monsters bad, needing to feed off scream energy, trying to create your own family, Crossover bullshit, dealing with self aggrandizing hunters trying to kill you because it gets them hard, creating your fancy secret lair, and the like five other things Beast tries to do.
It stretches itself too fucking thin.

>>50306361
Promethean also didn't have social groups. So frankly at this point we've had more games without them. And the problem is that a lot of them don't really have anything filling the gap that makes it interesting. I really really really hope that Geist gives us Carnivals or something.

>>50306425
Huh. Imagine that. I thought Stew was the only place there was crossover between WoD and CofD writers.

>>50306510
Vampires have to do harm to feed. Werewolves have to hunt. Why should Beasts get off easier? And why should Heroes be as shallow as they are presented as, universal bullies (after all the good ones don't hunt Beasts despite the harm they do being a perfectly reasonable thing to want to stop!).

Beasts are the scary monster that hurts the world of man, the game not dealing with that would be stupid. How it deals with it of course has problems, that's what we're arguing about, but coring out the existential horror aspect won't help at all.

>>50306542
>Promethean also didn't have social groups. So frankly at this point we've had more games without them. And the problem is that a lot of them don't really have anything filling the gap that makes it interesting. I really really really hope that Geist gives us Carnivals or something.

Yeah, but they came before both Changeling and Hunter, so I didn't list those.

And regarding Geist, while I like this whole "Yay! We are alive again" feel, they could tone down the extremely latinocentric vibes. As someone from northern Europe, I have no idea what's going on, and feel more than a bit alienated.

>>50306331
Thanks not explaining why this was considered spam, 4chan:

http://pastebin.com/ygrS6FRg

>>50306474
I feel like Beast is never going in one direction, and I'm fine with that. Wasn't one of the complaints that their metaphysics were the One True Way?
I never got the impression that the wisdom of the Dream and the Lessons were directly connected, so much as Beasts wanting to share their own wisdom.

>>50306566
Why do you feel alienated? I think they should play up the Latinocentric vibes, as well as the voodoo aspects, and throw in a bit more Chinese. Syncretism is the name of the game.

>>50306510
>>50306547
EVERYONE in the WoD does harm. That's the justification for there even being Hunters. I actually really like that now Changelings drain Willpower. The game already treated it that way, and now that it's a real thing there actually *is* reason for Hunters to hate Changelings.

>>50306547
Beasts are scary, yes; I think it's more interesting to the fear to be entirely out of proportion to the harm they do, which is why Heroes are bad. Beasts are the objects of human fear, not the cause of it, and Heroes are the results of human fear, which are invariably ugly.

>EVERYONE in the WoD does harm. That's the justification for there even being Hunters. I actually really like that now Changelings drain Willpower. The game already treated it that way, and now that it's a real thing there actually *is* reason for Hunters to hate Changelings.
The world's shittiest mechanic right there.

>>50306587
>. Wasn't one of the complaints that their metaphysics were the One True Way?
Yeah, which is what I was arguing I think. Their book as it is feels like they're smugly telling you the real truth. I want Dark Mother cultists fighting against functionalist Beasts while arguing with a group who think that maybe they aren't the origin but a symptom of all the other scary things in the world on the Primordial Dream.

Basically more possible truths, and people arguing for them rather than just their 'we're all family, let's rock!' stance.

>>50306587
>EVERYONE in the WoD does harm. That's the justification for there even being Hunters.
Yes, that's what I was saying. I was arguing against the person saying Beasts shouldn't do that. I think you're taking the exact opposite meaning from what I'm trying to say, which probably is on me for garbage explanatory powers.

>>50306587
>Why do you feel alienated? I think they should play up the Latinocentric vibes, as well as the voodoo aspects, and throw in a bit more Chinese. Syncretism is the name of the game.

Because it requires a complete overhaul to play anywhere outside of Latin America and the southern United States.

>>50306671

You're going to have to walk me through on this one. All I can remember about the Spanish influence is that Ofrendas were a thing, and those aren't much different from offerings in other cultures. Also the default setting was post 9/11 NYC, a veru unSouthern place, and that wasn't much different from the extremely scant details of the regular setting.

>>50306795
Eh, it's covered with day of the dead and carnivale symbolism. I'm not talking the NYC setting, I'm talking the game in general.
The Ceremonies are a BIG offender.

>>50306885
Is it being Latninocentric not intrinsic to the splat, in the same way that being (West+Central)Eurocentric is intrinsic to Vampire?

>>50306622
How is that a shitty mechanic? Draining someone's emotional energy shouldn't be completely painless. The "you can't regain willpower for a week" part was super terrible, but that was quickly changed (which is why open dev is great).

>>50306629
I don't really feel like it was telling me the real truth. It felt like it was telling me conjecture, same as Mage. Also, there was a good post on RPGnet that I never remember to save that gives a whole bunch of Beast social groups.

>I think you're taking the exact opposite meaning from what I'm trying to say, which probably is on me for garbage explanatory powers.
I quoted you both, but I was agreeing with you.

>>50306671
Nothing about it is inherently Latin. There are also Voodoo trappings, and one Tier Three Krewe is Russian. They're gangs and cults, and those are things that can exist everywhere. The only overtly Latin things are the terms, like Krewes and Ofrendas.

>>50306885
It's covered in syncretism and ancestor worship, neither of which are endemic to Central America. I don't see how the Ceremonies only fit in Latin America or the Southern US. Like the other anon pointed out, The Modern Gomorrah is set in New York post-9/11, and none of the Krewes are Latin. Hell, I don't think any are even Catholic. There's knowledge hoarders, hobos, vaguely voodoun gangsters, genderqueer sexual deviant club kiddies, and 9/11 first responders.
Hell, my Sin-eater is a Germanic witch filtered through pop culture, with her Geist being Maggie Hamilton.

>>50307069
It's not draining someone's emotional energy. It's feeding on the residue left behind by it; it's like being warmed by a fire, instead of eating the wood.

>>50307081
Let me rephrase:

Changelings doing no harm is dumb and feels at odds with how they're treated in the fluff. Feeding on Glamour *should* be draining. Not necessarily in a painful way, but good sex, a horror movie, or a roller coaster ride should all leave you a little tired, and so should drawing on your Glamour. I *want* there to be negative consequences for someone being fed on. I *want* changelings to feel like emotional vampires or succubi. I don't want "we're poor innocent faerie childes who do no harm to anyone and there shouldn't be any reason for people to hate us".

That they drain a single point of Willpower is perfect. They're not as dangerous as Vampires, poking you in the neck and drinking blood, but there's still a certain emotional toll that they take on people they feed from.

>>50307121
I massively disagree. But before I get into any of that, what do you think about, say, mages not having to drain people?

>>50307147
Mages fuck people over all the time. Every supernatural thing mages do has a chance of hurting normal people. Either from driving them insane or as collateral damage from magic gone horribly wrong (or horribly right.)

>>50307247
Right. But it's not required to get a basic resource, like 2e forces changelings into. It's entirely possible for changelings to fuck over mundanes in many, many other ways.

>>50307147
It's all make-believe. Pentacles are chuunis that will hopefully be put in an institution before they seriously harm people, while the Seers are the psychiatrists and nurses trying to take care of them.
Seriously though, screw Mage.

>>50307258
Mage isn't a fair comparison, they get special treatment and can just be normal people but with godlike powers

>>50307069
>Also, there was a good post on RPGnet that I never remember to save that gives a whole bunch of Beast social groups.
I've been working on a few since the Beast player in our mixed game feels like they have nothing to do besides subsume their wills to the PCs who actually have real goals and plans, but would like to see some others.

>>50307069
>I quoted you both, but I was agreeing with you.
I thought you were arguing against the opposite of what I was saying. I apparently am retarded. Sorry, possible aspel. This time it was me being the faggot.

>>50307266
And changelings A. won't have godlike powers, and B. are constantly being stalked by Huntsmen, so things seem fine to me.

But going back to Beast, I've elaborated in my mind a better version of it. Namely, that Beasts are defined by what other people fear about them. The reason this is important is their relationship with Heroes, which really need a new name, but my conception of them is that they feed on fear just as much as Beasts do; the difference is that they feed on fear of the other, those who aren't themselves. Heroes are the rabble-rousers, the demagogues, those who claim sustenance from the fearful and nearly always come to lead them... and if they should succeed in destroying an object of such fear, they get a sort of magnified spiritual orgasm (to explain why they don't just leave Beasts alone as constant sources of fear; this does mean, however, that a hungry Hero will constantly need their mob to fear other people once one is dead/ruined).

Just reading VtR 1e Ordo Dracul book and this one thing made me laugh so much I thought I would share with you:
>What we now think of as the scientific method has, of
>course, been around for many centuries. Muslim scholars and
>scientists were testing hypotheses long before the birth of Christ

>>50307397

I...but. How in the world did that slide by editing?

>>50307397
>Muslim
>Before christ
Shit

Surely they mean middle eastern scholars, right?

>>50307441
White Wolf's editing is pretty infamous.

>>50307497
>Heroes have a power that can strip the Beast's ability to impose lair traits on the real world
>Calls for a roll of supernatural power stat, which Heroes don't have

Dohohoho

>>50307147
>>50307266
>>50307320
Like the other anon says, Mages fuck people over all the time. They also still hurt people (and the world) through Paradox and Quiescence.
Prometheans also don't hurt people to regain their juice, but they still cause trouble for those around them all the same.

>>50307319
I quoted both of you because it was relevant to both your posts, but didn't want to separate it. I was basically elaborating on what you said, to provide a counterpoint to the other anon.

>>50307397
>>50307475
>>50307441
Hue. Presumably they mean Arabic, and mistook the one for the other. Conflating Muslim and Arabic isn't exactly uncommon, but you'd think they'd know better.

>>50307802
Which roll is that? In the OPP era, you'd think the forums would have caught that one.

>>50307835
>Which roll is that? In the OPP era, you'd think the forums would have caught that one.
Real World is power attribute and occult. I don't know if that means Blood Potency or your favorite of Strength, Int, or Presence. I think the former, since don't those get called power traits? Or maybe I have it backwards and the power is actually fine and a must have for a smart Hero

>>50305265
>They can drink blood without using their mouths, absorb blood around them like Kaine,

And thus lose the kiss so feeding is always difficult, if masquerade breaching as the victim can scream and fight. They first Discipline Finger tongue the one that lets you drain blood through the fingers also needs 1 vitae, so now feeding is more expensive and requires a successful grapple. So the first dot is wasted making their clan weakness "less" of an issue.

>create Wolverine claws.

The second dot "skewer" you get a shitty claws that get you a +2 damage in exchange for 1 vitae but suffer a -2 on all dexterity rolls to manipulate objects. Still worse than the Aggravated claws from the Gangrel and no better than just carrying a knife. The only silver lining is that it can be combined with the first do to drain blood at the cost of another vitae.

>harden their skin

3rd dot "Bloodshell" which is a 2/1 armor that as an extra gives you a -1 to initiative and defense. Slightly better than a kevlar vest (1/2) if not for the -1s but worse than a flak jacket (2/3) in any sense. And again masquerade breaching and cost 2 vitae.

>launch Aggravated damage quills for some stupid fucking reason though is short range and expensive, 1 vitae per shot. Good.

Now fleshdart (the 4 dot) is not that bad, a throwing attack with aggravated damage.

>and can even go full [Prototype] and explode out a giant shower of quills.

The 5th dot, shitty power if i ever saw one. 3 vitae + receiving 2 aggravated damage to roll 5 + 2 stats and eat only lethal damage in a radious of 5 feet. No damage bonus and no 9 again. Except for the "surprise" factor is no better than a shotgun.

>Their power is incredibly powerful in a "this is stupidly strong" sort of way.

Their power has 1 Cool power and the rest range from mediocre to plain bad. Only the 4th dot is somewhat viable when Protean 3 gives you the same benefits of 2nd dot with no weaknesses. Shitty bloodline with a shitty discipline.