Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

gilneas = english
lordaeron = stereotypical medieval fantasy humans
dalaran = stereotypical medieval fantasy humans but with a Twist
alterac = slavs occupied by germans
stromgarde = german
kul tiras = spanish but without spanish names
azeroth = stereotypical medieval fantasy humans + westfall rednecks

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So what's going to happen now that he's gone?

>>50221488
>kul tiras = spanish but without spanish names
>tfw no Jaina Manola Santana Isabel Maria Daniela Jesuita Proudmoore Barbados, Fatherkiller Ruler of Dalaran, Grand Magus of the Kirin Tor, former Lady of Theramore, former Apprentice to Antonidas

From Traveler: Girl Ogre

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>>50221870

Pic

>>50221885
Pretty cute.

>>50221885
So basically: Larger, white orcs. Got it.

>>50221948
Seconded

>>50221585
Not sure, but let me tell you it's gonna be one hell of a wild ride brother.

You know, he gets tons of flak in these threads, but everytime I read about him elsewhere, he comes across as a genuinely swell dude who got his headcanon figured out. Warcraft 3 was all him and we basically fell in love with warcraft lore through that game. Now he's had to herd all sorts of author cats during wow and basically just nodded off things that sorta worked and were promising content, so of course everything had to go down the shitter.

I'm genuinely more afraid now that the one guy who cared about Azeroth as it was in its glory days has jumped ship and all the lore is left to agenda-pushing SJWs and authors who want to push their own head-canon no matter the continuity issues.

So is Med'an officially non canon?

>>50222259
He has been non-canon for a while now afaik.

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Where can I find more maps of the world that are of Kuusinen level of quality and detail?

(pic related)

Proposed fixes/headcanon (from a ttrpg perspective):

- Forsaken are neutral, no faction affiliation. They are rotting zombies, which should already be enough; they are an abomination to the light, that works on them like fire (so basically it's a no by the Alliance), and they are a conceptual abomination for nature itself, being something dead but also alive (which is another no by tauren's nature based culture and also orcish shamanistic religion). Also, among them there are the corpses of Lordaeronians that died in the 2nd war against the orcs, so I doubt that brought back to life they would love to be part of the Thrall Club of Friends.
- Nelves are also neutral. I doubt that they would be trusting races like the dwarves and gnomes given their love of fire and technology, or the humans with their liberal use of the arcane arts, and they can't be friendly with the orcs even, due to what happened in Ashenvale after the orcs landed and started logging there.
- Theramore is neutral, because if it's still Alliance related it would be a prime target for the Horde, being the biggest human port in Kalimdor, and allowing a hypotetical invasion fleet from EK to strike at Orgrimmar in 10-something days after resupplying there. Jaina being her, she made the city a hub for research, international relations, commerce and peace.
- In a world where firearms are widespread, and easily portable like rifles, plate armor and melee weapons survive because armor is made of a much harder and lighter metal than steel, that makes bullets a little less deadly and melee combat the most efficient way of finding gaps in the enemy's armor

Any more ideas?

>>50223092
-Warlocks are illegal and shunned by both the Alliance and the Horde.

-Draenei remain a shamanistic alien species with no relation to the Burning Legion. They also remain monstrous, unless a player really really really wants their space goat waifu

-The Alliance and the Horde are still peaceful and collaborating in fighting the Scourge, the Naga and any potential new threat.

-Varian is shunned by the Alliance due to his warmongering ways and ends up causing Jaina to step up and lead the Alliance.

>Illidan died in his duel with Arthas and now works for the Scourge. This is enough for Azshara to consider the Scourge a threat, so the two main "villainous" factions are also at war with each other

>>50221870
Traveler's out?

awesome

>>50223092

>Nelves are also neutral. I doubt that they would be trusting races like the dwarves and gnomes given their love of fire and technology, or the humans with their liberal use of the arcane arts, and they can't be friendly with the orcs even, due to what happened in Ashenvale after the orcs landed and started logging there.


Looks like someone didnt play Warcraft 3. Night elves were supposed to be a deconstruction of the whole hidden elf village shit, when they realized hiding away from their problems doesnt solve shit so they swallowed their pride and went out to change the world, a sleeping empire awakening.

> Theramore is neutral, because if it's still Alliance related it would be a prime target for the Horde, being the biggest human port in Kalimdor, and allowing a hypotetical invasion fleet from EK to strike at Orgrimmar in 10-something days after resupplying there. Jaina being her, she made the city a hub for research, international relations, commerce and peace.

Theramore was always neutral, just because you dont fire on horde ships on sight it doesnt mean you cant be alliance.

>>50223382
Even then, night elves joining the Alliance rather than remaining an independent empire of their own was kind of an asspull to have them be playable in WoW while still keeping the number of factions down to two (same with Forsaken joining the Horde). They don't really have any political ties to the Alliance, whose members mostly live on an entirely diffrent continent (Theramor being the only major humna settlement on Kalimdor) and with who they would have a lot of ideological differences (nigh elves are very reverent of nature, so dwarven industry would be an affront to them, and they despise arcane magic, which humans, gnomes, and high elves all use). They'd actually have more ties with the Horde (tauren and night elves have both been living on Kalimdor for thousands of years, even if they generally lived in different places and only overlap in a few areas, and druidic magic is quite close to shamanistic magic in many ways), but Grom having his chimpout and killing Cenarius is likely to put a dampen on them developing very close relationship.

>>50223637

>Even then, night elves joining the Alliance rather than remaining an independent empire of their own was kind of an asspull

No it wasnt, all the factions were allied at the and of WC3. If not the nigger moment of warsong and Thrall going easy on them because he idolized Grom the entire Horde could be literally part of the Alliance instead of red vs blue.

>same with Forsaken joining the Horde)

True, that was an asspull of epic proportions. Especially with the fucking dreadlord hanging out in undercity.

>They don't really have any political ties to the Alliance, whose members mostly live on an entirely diffrent continent

That was pretty much the point. So they could have ties to the other continent. Conflicts are global now, isolationism doesnt work when they summon the legion on the other half of the world anyway.

>nigh elves are very reverent of nature, so dwarven industry would be an affront to them, and they despise arcane magic, which humans, gnomes, and high elves all use)

And everyone keeps forgetting how they arent screaming, flanderized fanatics about it. Realpolitik came first, you want strong allies with steam tanks and war wizards more than upholding your obsolete beliefs. Especially when the scourge, the undead, the naga, the horde, the quiraji and all the other shit is threatening you.


Also, the whole tauren and druidic magic thing is a retcon of epic proportions that everyone just forgot about. In fact, pretty much everything about druids was completely retconned from WC3 to WoW to make them playable instead of a small cult of exclusively night elf males who have been sleeping for thousands of years.

Faction system should have revolved around individual city states y/n ?

Instead of lumping all playable races into a red vs. Blu cold war, all races should have been able to go a route where they could become exalted members of any other faction. Naturally, certain rces have it easier to become part of a faction, such as Darkspear joining the Horde or Dwarves joining the Alliance.

But just imagine the awesome clusterfuck when a bunch of Orcs decide they want to make amends to sentinels and farm rep by killing their own people until they get some purple pussy or humans seceding from the Alliance and joining Forsaken a.k.a. Undead ISIS in order to escape established monarchy.

>>50223382

>Looks like someone didnt play Warcraft 3
I played them all since wc1, thank you

>deconstruction of the whole hidden elf village shit
I might appreciate that, but this still is in conflict with the arcane magic used by humans - and gnomes - and the industrial powerhouse that is dwarves and gnomes combined VS the complete ban over arcane magic and a whole civilization living along with nature without exploiting natural resources.
Also, I am sure that the extreme conservativeness stemming from immortality and isolationism will outright clash with dynamism and progress that EK races are bringing to the table. At the very least, there would have been deep tensions, Nelves would have faced civil war between Staghelm and Tyrande. None of that happened.
Instead, a whole race of ex immortals converted to the good use of technology and progress, even without an external threat given that Archimonde had just been defeated.

>Theramore was always neutral, just because you dont fire on horde ships on sight it doesnt mean you cant be alliance
The Alliance is a military agreement first and foremost. You don't need to fire on horde ships, you just need to give logistical support to the army if the Alliance asks you to. Eg: an hypotetical invasion fleet coming from the east.
Needless to say, this obligation is a very heavy one on Jaina's plans of peaceful cohabitation. It just makes more sense for Theramore whole to not be inside the Alliance, not just "not belligerant".

>>50223870

>Alliance should have been this huge, loosely allied juggernaut, armies, fortresses, barracks errywhere, but constantly struggling with game of thrones tier internal dissent, uprisings, ambitious nobles plotting and cultural differences

>horde is a vastly outnumbered and outgunned shamanistic band of brothers stuggling to survive in a harsh world

>forsaken are nominal allies of the horde, but you have to do huge feats to actually get accepted and actually let into horde villages

>several orcish clans available to join as orcs are trying to revive their pre-horde culture. maybe you want to be a warsong warmonger yearning back for the good old days or a peaceful shaman actually trying to mend fences with the alliance and atone for your bloodlust and wars

>entire continuum of faction-related, faction-friendly and faction-accepted minor factions, befriending them could being actual gameplay benefits and stuff

I'd dig it, the roleplaying aspects of vanilla like unique priest spells based on race were the shit.

>>50224111

When the alternative is extinction its sensible to just swallow your elven pride and put up with the people willing to fight along you and bring all their toys. Its also easier to make decisions like that when your faction leader is a warlord who rules by literal divine mandate. What Tyrande says what Tyrande gets.

Also, the whole reason of the arcane magic ban was to prevent attracting demon attention and another Legion invasion which quite obviously failed. There was an entire city of wizards on the other contient, you can either ally them or try to genocide them to uphold the ban. There was also a great deal of butthurt about the loss of immortality too, but that was all Malfurions making.

Jaina killed her father and king to help the horde. I think that would be enough guarantee that the Alliance wont use Theramore as an invasion staging point.

>>50223249
If you go with that Canon then the Dark Portal wouldn't be open since Illidan never went to Outland, so why bother with a Draenei re-retcon?

>>50223866
This.... Druidism on Horde was too stupid.

We should had Paladin and Druid as Alliance exclusive and Shaman and Shadow Hunter as Horde exclusive instead of the nonsense Horde Priests and their light spells.

Ironically the Shaman vs Paladin thing was a epic fail at that time.

>>50224235
> its sensible to just swallow your elven pride and put up with the people willing to fight along you and bring all their toys

It's sensible indeed, I agree with you. I am not betting on all of the Nelves to be sensible though, and Staghelm must have at least some kind of following to outright state "Tyrande has no idea how to lead our people", I presume.

>arcane magic ban
Well, Medivh was a human and a mage, the elected best of them too, and he was the reason of all the shit that happened after that in Azeroth.
I guess if Nelves wanted to be the World Arcane Police they shouldn't have remained isolationists, so I gather that they were ok to just be free from arcane magic users themselves.
They did the same with the Helves: they didn't genocide them, just exiled.
So either I'm missing something or this is another of the thousand plot holes blizzard has in its lore.

> I think that would be enough guarantee that the Alliance wont use Theramore as an invasion staging point
That's another reason for Jaina and Theramore not to be in the Alliance in the first place. Even more so after killing the leader of a member nation, AND her father. That would be like, I don't know, Germany going at Belgium throat again in the 70s

why are human mages more powerful than elven ones?

>>50224934
Because Blizz creative department is like a first time DM, who already had some storytelling talent in the first place, but is better suited as a novelist than a worldbuilder or a DM.

Ie: the "good guy" protagonists are the humans here, elves are counterparts like the other races.

>>50224145
> Muh Alliance juggernaut

Nah.. Without a strong Horde or enemy it should be no reason for the Dwarves and Gnomes to mess directly on human affairs.

And humans were were still jobing on Westfall and every whatevershire.. people complain about Garrosh Horde infrastructure but Alliance had asspulls too.

It is just stupid to think that Bolvar would let the entire kingdom suck instead of just pulling all that massive force that we saw on wrath and cataclysm.

>>50224934
Elves are mutated trolls are evolved apes or some shit and therefore super sensitive to magic.

Humans are evolved Vrykul who are in turn fleshy titanforged who are metal people optimised by star faring gods to fight cthulhu starmonsters, so they're naturally conductive.

Elves are more in harmony with magic, but humans canchannel it harder.

>>50225049
Reminder that Onyxia's pussy game was so good it made Bolvar retarded.

>>50225134
Bolvar did anything on Vanilla or even on novels or another game? He had that quest to reveal Onyxia and what more?

Varian and the player base loved him but the only thing you may notice is that he was a shit leader and nothing else.... Then Varian started a world war because of him, he overcome the torture that no other could, become the lich King and wtf?

>>50224845

Well yeah, they simmered a lot and managed to force through the creation of Teldrassil but otherwise I dont think it was even possible for them to achieve anything. Again, warlord with divine mandate and her husbando as the archdruid. Even the second in command was her close personal friend for 10k years. There isnt anything dissenters could do, except complain about it on night elf /pol/.

When they finally got their shit together and tried to get off a plot in cata they all got killed off right away.

>That's another reason for Jaina and Theramore not to be in the Alliance in the first place. Even more so after killing the leader of a member nation, AND her father. That would be like, I don't know, Germany going at Belgium throat again in the 70s

I'm pretty mad how no one ever brought this up, or she never angsts over it. This would be a pretty fucking heinous crime. The time when she TPd Varian out of UC when he was about to kill Thrall also never gets brought up, But when she tries to retaliate to a WMD with a WMD its EEEEEVIL and she needs to get talked out about it by her sentient dragon dildo.

>>50225049

>vanilla
>defias uprising, we sadly put it out too quick and waste one of the best human plotlines, westfall is an abandoned shithole
>the alliance cant spare troops to help out its core production region with farms, mines and lumbermills but can afford to crusade to jungle and lava shitholes

>wotlk
>apparently westfall got its shit together so well they can afford to raise a milita and send it to northrend to campaign

>cata
>for some unearthly reason the war caused unemployment theres a fuckton of hobos milling around, instead of getting drafted and working mines and lumbermills or whatever
>defias boogaloo 2.0 with miss no pants
>CSI references out of the ass
>better go and fight in random shitholes and alternate dimensions again
>to add insult to injury the plotline never gets resolved and Sentinel Hill forever gets besieged by gnolls

>>50225350
>Again, warlord with divine mandate and her husbando as the archdruid.

This seems the most forced plot point ever to me. I mean, on one hand we missed a great opportunity for conflict, and on the other hand, if the Nelf aristocracy is literally that enlightened, why are they in a faction even, instead of acting like an impartial beacon of what really must be done for the safety of the planet?

They do have druids in the horde too, and it even made more sense for the Nelves to be buddies with Taurens that they already know, instead of steely soldiers of various heights from across the ocean. And arcane mages, that too.

>>50225655
Because Orcs are dickshits who kept trying to cut down Night Elf sacred forest.

>>50221429
Who is that?

>>50221885
I swear given the dialogue from the Ogre saying he wants to join the horde right before the first Legion quest I think we might get them and Nagas next expac.

>>50225655

Or you're just trying to shoehorn in needless conflict where none exists and none should exist, They are not retarded hippies ranting about industry and mages when those are blindingly obviously useful aganist the Legion, their mortal enemy.

They had nothing common with the tauren druids either, they barely communicated, had differing mythologies, worshipped different ancients and the like. The Cenarion Circle as an active organization was founded in vanilla times.

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IS the tabletop RPG any good? If so anyone have links?

>>50226637

Its your regular D&D quite serviceable. I just love the part though when they statted some insane shit like the Lich King, the titans and Elune to fight and their relics as weapons. You could actually use the +5 sword Frostmourne and wear the Helm of Damnation amongst others.

>>50226212
Lei Shen, the most underrated and underused character Blizzard ever created

>>50226689
>I ONLY SOUGHT TO FINISH...THE WORK..OF THE GODS...

>>50226698
if the tol'vir hadn't stabbed him in the back then the War of the Ancients would have never happened as the Mogu Empire would stretch across Azeroth preventing the elves from gaining power

Lei Shen did literally nothing wrong

>>50226689
>>50226698

https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/759552173579591680

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>>50226271
Horde can have Ogres and Alliance should get Arakkoa.

>>50226760
>Arthas
>smart
No, Ner'zhul would have won the with an army. Arthas would have charged into yet another a blatant trap like the retard he was.

>>50222017
pretty much this.
Metzen for better or worse loved the universe he helped create.

>>50226760
the last time I saw his twitter, he was responding to hordies who were sad that tyrande was yelling at them.

>>50228961
>sad

Try more like pissed off. Nobody minded helping the frigid cunt out, but it's bullshit that in beta got to talk shit to Horde players while they fucking help her and didn't even have an option to shut her shit down like Alliance players had with Vol'jin in 5.3.

So fuck off.

>>50229143
What are you so mad about, hordebaby?

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>>50225134
To be fair, I can understand that.

>>50229385
>ywn impregnate Onyxia and restore the black dragonflight's numbers

>>50229143
Horde players should get the option to let Val'sharah fucking burn

Fuck Druids, they're all Alliance double agents anyway

>>50226909
It would be acceptable under condition that you can play corrupted Arakkoa and Two-Headed Ogres as specific classes.

And with Tanaris being updated to have Capital-sized Gadgetzan.

>>50230540
Troll Druid is my main, mon.

>>50229143
>vol'jin
the patch where all the alliance did was play robocat?

>>50229385
So which out of Onyxia, Neferian and Sabellion was the eldest?

I thought it was Neferian, but in WC2 you get the impression that Sabellion is Deathwing's go to guy, or dragon. So would that mean that he is in fact the eldest, and he has that position because he is the most experienced.

Or did Deathwing know that the other two were somewhat deficient in some way and Sabellion was number two because he was more capable than the other two and age had nothing to do with it? or was it simply a case of he had 3 children and he simply split the tasks up regardless of their personalities and talents?

>>50225960
It doesn't help that they consider half of the freaking continent as "sacred forest"

>>50231044
well no shit sherlock. it's their fucking continent.

>>50221585
Why do you have Metzen's face instead of Kosak on Garrosh?

I feel like putting Metzen's face on Thrall and Kosak's face on Garrosh would work better

>>50223249
Why would warlocks be illegal? They're the first line of defense against a demonic incursion, because no one recognizes the dangers of demonic power more so than those who use it.

The warlocks of the orcs, humans and gnomes should be those races equivalents to the night elf demon hunters. Potentially dangerous, but it's still far better to have them around than not

>>50225049
Why not? trade partners don't need a common enemy to mess with each others internal affairs

>>50224934
They really aren't, they're just suicidal

The plan to get 100 mages working together to cast one gigantic flamestrike was insanity, elves wouldn't do it because they're not crazy enough to try

>>50224934
Only the important ones like Jaina and Khadgar are. I'd say it goes something like
1. Genius Elven mages
2. Genius Human mages
3. Average Elven mages
4. Average Human mages
I'd also say that there are more Elven spellcasters due to their affinity for it, but it's a bit debatable seeing as humans have a larger population to pull from.

>>50225350
>>to add insult to injury the plotline never gets resolved and Sentinel Hill forever gets besieged by gnolls
you mean burning.

>>50224934
Elisande can stop time,Azshara is in a tier of her own and Kael'Thas could bend gravity.

The only human on their level is the Guardian(Medivh/Alodi/Aegwyn).

>>50232011
>Elisande can stop time
I must have missed something because I don't remember that at all.

>>50231044
Yeah. It's like they've lived there for over 10,000 years or something.

>>50232173
latest patch.
although that has probably more to do with the amount of experience that the elves have, since they live for so long.

>>50223092
>>50223249
>>50223382
>>50223637
>>50223866

The Night Elves were shoehorned into the Alliance. It doesn't help they keep forgettingthe Alliance is an alliance instead of a kingdom ruled by the Wrynns. Anyway :

> The High Elves are gone from the East by WoW. All the leftovers went Blood Elf. They're not in the Alliance or Horde and don't ever get another Sunwell.
> Arthas is just a piece of the Lich King.
>The Forsaken aren't a playable Scourge and instead are a country of rebels who aren't ridiculously hostile to the Alliance.
> Faction War never happens.
> Pandaria is found by exploring.
> The Old Gods are portrayed as less as yet another gang who's out to blow up Azeroth and instead a collection of creatures who have their places in Azeroth.

>>50223870

Just don't have races locked to factions.

>>50225049
>>50225350

Both the Alliance and Horde are ridiculously strong for all the carnage that's happened.

>>50226760

Kosak's tweet clashes with how Arthas is shown in Lore outside of WotLK. He's shown to be skilled at 1-on-one combat and leading his troops from the front. But not as a master planner of campaigns.

>>50232011
Don't forget Dindu.

>>50232219
Tbh if they had to include faction conflict they should had made Alliance&Horde into something like NATO (with Night Elves/Orcs being the USAs) instead of monolithic power block ruled over by a warchief/blue warchief.

>>50232177
I guess I just haven't gotten to it yet. The last thing I did was save Vanthir and give him the fruit.

>>50232219
>But not as a master planner of campaigns.
I'm 99% sure Kosak is hung up on Arthas' master plan to lead the players to icecrown then turn them into his pawns. He probably thinks Arthas is a fucking genius.

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>>50232265

>>50226760
>the guy with a soul sucking sword will lose in a one on one fight
>the army of magical statues will lose to an army of undead
fucking Kosak

>>50232620
As if the overlord-minded Mogu would fight by their own strength alone.

These are the dudes who enslaved all of Pandaria, mind you, famous for their penchant for using slave races (those not Mogu) for everything they deemed beneath them, including as fodder, vanguard, flank, rear, and ass every time their masters wanted.

>>50232282

I say to restrict the Alliance to Stormwind, Kul'tiras, and Ironforge. Other Eastern lands are either dead or not in it. Theramore burned its bridges to the East after Proudmoore's death.

The Night Elves are allied with Theramore and trade with Eastern traders who reach them. But are not in the Alliance.

>>50232319

WotLK was out of character for Arthas. Among other things, he wouldn't go around trying some silly plan to recruit the players instead of riding around and messing them up.

>>50224934
In general it comes down elves would be way too fucking powerful if you accounted for age.

The above huge elven mages aside basically every fucking 1000 year old elf who has been studying magic for fucking centuries should blow every single human mage out of the water but that's not as fun so most elves are handicapped to be on equal footing as everyone else.

>>50229385
In an ideal world Onxyia would have fucked Anduin and we would have had a decade of hot /ss/ with Anduin's light powered wang purifying her of being a cunt and producing superior not shit dragon whelps.

>>50231189
>>50232175

>implying it's not rightful troll land

>>50225115
>evokved
De-evolved.
Curse of flesh worst day of my life

>>50233095

Or it turns out there is only so much you can learn or practice and raw talent, drive and ambition can count more. Humans have a far bigger pool for prodigies and they have a scant few decades to make something of themselves so they are going to try fucking hard.

>>50233123

That would still make it legit, case night elves are troll successors themselves.

>>50233123
>take a shit
>bunch of shit trolls appear and start to bitch how your freshly squeezed out turd is muh ancient troll lands

Fucking trolls.

>>50233280
>That would still make it legit, case night elves are troll successors themselves.

>the chinese have a legitimate claim on africa because their ancestors came from africa a long time ago

That's what you sound like. Newsflash: it doesn't work like that.

They were mutated from trolls but they are trolls no longer and they actively warred against the trolls. They aren't successors. They're usurpers.

Trolls lived in those forests before elves considered them sacred and the elves drove the trolls out of them.

All of Azeroth is rightful troll land. Elves have no claim.

>>50232219
>Just don't have races locked to factions.
Basically what I said, but more lame.

>>50233324

By that logic the trolls can fuck off from all the rightful Black Empire land.

>>50233355
Well Azeroth is rightful Old God clay and Titans and their creations should fuck off.

>>50233324

The trolls living in Night Elf lands developed into Night Elves, so Zandalari and the rest wanting clay are like africans trying to claim china because the ancestors of chinese came from africa.

>>50233378
I don't want my Titan to have an Old God infection

>>50233471
Because a gaping second anus that leaks arcane shit is much more preferable to little bit of tentacles and void lord loyalty.

>>50233355

Actually, Black Empire usurped the rightful lands of the Elemental Lords. Elementals ruled before the Old Gods or Titans arrived.

>>50233429

Not entirely accurate, because the night elves expanded beyond the lands originally inhabited by the dark trolls (which were few and small in size) and drove out trolls who lived in lands that the night elves conquered.

Honestly, I've got no problem with Right of Conquest. I only hate it when there's a double standard and hypocrites apply it to humans and elves but scream bloody murder if someone applies it to orcs, undead, or trolls.

>>50233652
Existence is rightful Elemental clay, gas the Void, primordial force war now.

>>50233652

Cause its always a shallow excuse that shows up in general hordefaggotry.

>b-b-but they need lumber so its okay to invade the elves!

RvB turned everything into shallow faction fanboyism tho, especially after vanilla.

If you could play a campaign in any Warcraft setting, what would it be?

>>50233719

Demon-serving bloodlusted human armies invading a world of peaceful shamanistic orcs

>>50229385
>mfw no good onyxia porn
>mfw no onyxia smut
People have no taste

>>50233719
a band of Scourge bros traveling the earth doing the Lich King's bidding

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>>50233095
There would probably be an effective upper limit to arcane power. We see the same for fel (too much and you just melt) and they're opposites on the power chart. You might even be able to say the same for Light and Shadow, but nobody has really pushed it that hard other than Shadow Priests, and they conk out thanks to the madness before reaching any shadow limits

>>50233719
Black Empire crusades against the elements could be fun
Or a pre-Burning Legion orc tribal campaign on Draenor

>>50233711

And? The elves didn't NEED all the land they conquered, so why does that make it okay for them? If it isn't okay for the orcs to conquer, then it isn't okay for the elves or the humans.

Either you're on board with Right of Conquest or you aren't. Just don't be a hypocrite about it.

>>50233803
That picture has a nude version.

That's all the smut you need.

>>50233830
Forgive me if I've gotten this completely wrong, but doesn't that already exist? If we go with the Fel/Arcane opposite thing and Fel kills you dead, Arcane would effectively prolong your life. Which it has, every Elf on Azeroth was created in the light of the Well of Eternity, a giant font of Arcane power. I'm not sure if Trolls are already long-lived (Zandalari do vodoo Loa rituals and stuff I seem to recall?). Does Arcane power make you immortal?

>>50233719
The players would all be apprentices in something, squires, scholars and candle-burners. They clock onto a threat their masters won't acknowledge and have to deal with it themselves. They travel the Eastern Kingdoms and learn more about the world than they ever would from their books and lessons.

Running a Scarlet Crusade campaign. It'd culminate in the sacking of the Undercity. I need some good arcs. Ideas?

>>50233883
>reclaiming Andorhal and the rest of the Plaguelands
>attacking the Bulwark
>reinforcing the Scarlet Monastery

>old farts
>troll cucks
>burning shits
>elven sissies
SCOURGE.
By plague or saronite the azeroth will survive.

>>50233883
>Saving then questioning Survivors
>Investigating more plague
>Clearing out the upper hierarchy and cleanse the Crusade from corruption so the cause can be done with righteous fury.

>>50233856

>The elves didn't NEED all the land they conquered

See? This is the exact king of butthurt hordefaggotry I was talking about,

>>50233993

Okay, so rather than continue to have a neutral argument you decide to pull the faction card and bring "butthurt Hordefaggotry" into this when nobody else was talking about faction bias.

You do realize that not only have you conceded the argument, but you paint YOURSELF as the butthurt one by immediately going for faction shitslinging when I was keeping this as neutral as possible?

Shit, dude. You don't even KNOW if I play Horde or not (protip: I don't) and you're just making assumptions because my argument doesn't line up with your perception of how things are.

I'm done. These threads are no place for discussion. Just butthurt monkeys who have to throw insults around because they don't actually have an argument of their own.

>>50233918
>tfw doing what the living cannot
daily reminder that demonic magic cannot pierce the Helm of Domination and all mortals should bow down to the one true king

>>50233324
Now I imagine zionist Trolls, well done anon.

>>50231189
>laughing Trolls
>laughing Centaurs
>laughing Tauren
>laughing Furbolgs
>laughing Treants
>laughing Wyern
>laughing Mountain Giants
>laughing dragons

NE gave no shits about most of the continent, mate.

>>50234467

As long they arent killing their demigods and desecrating their forests. I miss their WC3 characterization when other races described them as essentially shadowy demigods and Maiev offhandedly remarked they fucking ended entire races before.

>>50233719
Pandaria just after the Pandaren freed themselves from the Mogu's rule.
A whole continent to explore and reclaim. It'd be amazing.

>>50233323
this.

>>50234467
mountain giants were nelf allies.
So were the furbolgs and treants.
>trolls
target practice
>cowmen
being killed by the centaur
>centaur
worshipping a KoTG.
>wyvern animals
>dragons
doing nothing/allied loosely with the night elves.

>>50233719
Crumbling Lordaeron after Terenas got Brutus'd

>>50233918
>>50234081

Quickly plot out a playable Scourge from Vanilla onward

>>50235173
I don't think centaur are that old of a race. The Tauren seemed to have been fighting over Higjmoutain while other tribes left for different land after they left the south.
But I believe centaur came in after the sundering

>>50235437
necromancers wanting to be true undead.
Alternately a harry potteresque romp through scholomance with rattlegore being hagrid.

>>50226300
>needless conflict where none exists and none should exist

I disagree. No matter how sensible you want a people to be, I find really hard to believe that an entire race of immortal isolationist is that fast to radically change everything in their worldview, and every single member of that race agrees to do it at once.
It would never happen in reality, and the premises presented as they are simply prevent it to happen in this fantasy setting.
If there's anything shoehorned it's the complete and utter realignment of the Nelf race identity for the sake of the two faction MMO.

>obviously useful aganist the Legion, their mortal enemy
The horde has the very same means. Yet, they went with the alliance. It must be gathered that Elune herself sides with the alliance, if they have this divine mandate.

> they barely communicated, had differing mythologies, worshipped different ancients and the like
Agreed. The EK people had the same drawbacks AND they had no communication whatsoever.

>>50235855
>The horde has the very same means
the same horde that began harvesting lumber from ashenvale while the alliance led by jaina left in peace.
that alone would be reason enough to join the alliance.

>>50235855

>immortal isolationist

They weren't immortal anymore and the isolationism didn't work. The night elf campaign isnt called Eternity's End for no reason.

>change everything in their worldview,

Not everything changed.

>and every single member of that race agrees to do it at once.

See Fandral.

Also, vanilla went great lengths to show how the cultural exchange went. Paladins of the Argent Dawn in Darnassus and Ashenvale, night elf druids in the Stormwind park etc.

>>50236039
you don't think people actually played vanilla do you?
nostalrius when?

>>50235926
If we assume vanilla's setup isn't canon, that might not be canon either. Warsong clan going back to chopping up trees in Ashenvale and Thrall not doing anythign was written pretty much to give the Nelfs a reason to be at war with Horde and join the Alliance. If game mechanics didn't force everybody's hand, they could've likely reached a diplomatic agreement, with the Horde trading some other resources for lumber. There'd still be the whole "Grom getting hopped up on coolaid and killing Cenarius" thing, but considering they did ally with the Orcs, and fight together against Archimonde, I they seemd to be on at least neutral terms with each other in the end of WC3.

>>50235926
What about the entire race of arcane magic users the Alliance brought along (and the Nelves banned millennia ago)? Or the fact that the guy that opened the dark portal and brought the orcs in in the first place was both a human and an arcane mage?
Oh, and I don't think dwarven warmachines are solar powered, so harvesting lumber on an industrial level is ok, as long as it's not in Nelf backyard?

I still think that the Nelves has zero reason to join either faction. Liking one more than another, maybe, but joining one? No.

>>50236039
So they stopped being immortal like five minutes ago in their own perception. And three minutes ago they were ready to end (and they did end) millennia of isolationism because "it didn't work", that is Medivh, who didn't follow their rules in the first place, started all this chain of events.

So are they going to go witch-hunting in the human lands now, to prevent another Legion invasion? Or extend their ban of arcane magic worldwide? Or even advise the alliance leaders with thousands of years of wisdom on how nature magic is safer?
Of course not, they are passively accepting everything the guys from across the ocean brought with them, and even play second fiddle to the humans.
This is not swallowing elven pride, this is completely bending over for Hernan Cortes and demanding everyone to be happy for it.

>See Fandral
Yeah, which is the Archdruid of the Capital of the Night Elves openly stating to 5lvl nobodies coming to Darnassus that the leader in chief, the girl with the divine mandate a couple hundred meters away, is a clueless incompetent.
Why is he still there if he's not backed up by someone? And if he is, why there is no conflict between worldviews inside the Nelf society?

>went great lengths to show how the cultural exchange went
I remember. I just think it's forced that it would be so fast, given the premises.

>>50236551

>why elves are acting rationally instead of obnoxious assholes, I dont like this!

Ok.

>>50236039
Also, Delgren was Silver Hand, not Argent Dawn

>>50236616
Rationally, a society frozen and isolated since forever doesn't change so fast, if it even changes without bloodshed.
It is very convenient for humans and alliance (and an easy storyline) that they behaved like they did, you could at least admit that.

>>50236675
only they aren't people to whom their way of life is semi mythologized. A lot of them are old elves who have lived through changes in society like giving up magic and the like. It took the threat of the planet being destroyed by neltharion to actually ask mages to return back to their society.

>>50236675
>Rationally, a society frozen and isolated since forever doesn't change so fast

Rationally, it had to because a demon army and the Horde was threatening extinction. Do you understand what pragmatism is?

>>50236869
Yes, and it was not the ban over arcane magic that summoned the horde or the legion, it was the exact opposite.
In fact, Archimonde was destroyed by ancestral *nature* magic, while the horde and the alliance role was just that of meatshields giving Malfurion time to channel that nature magic.
Yet, it was the Nelves way who failed and had to change. Ah, well.

>>50236985
the night elves gave up their immortality for that.
It isn't exactly a party trick.

It really seems like DKs should have been some neutral force, like Scourge world-cops. I just can't picture two Knights of the Ebon Blade killing each other except in pretty dire circumstances.

This could have been simplified by allowing Nelf PCs to work with the Alliance, but not having the Nelves join the Alliance at large. Just a truce.

Have other Alliance PCs allowed to enter Nelf lands and have NPCs be varying levels of okay with it.

>>50236985
I like how you pretend that the "nature magic" Malfurion used is something that can be called forth at a whim and didn't come at a great cost.

I also like how you leave out the part where the Horde spat on the peace after Hyjal was over and started encroaching on Elven lands again and NE wanted the Alliance to back them up.

>>50237060
they pretty much don't.
Unlike other classes, DKs are pretty centralized by nature.
>>50237108
that was literally how it was in vanilla. you started off as neutral with the night elves and built your rep from there.
The only non night elves in darkshore were a few Ironforge NPCs looking for a titan relic.

>>50232011
>Elisande can stop time

But can she remember how many manabreads she has eaten in her life?

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>>50237045
I know. My point is exactly that this kind of actions are fucking traumatic for a race/culture, especially this kind of race/culture. They cause tensions, divisions, conflicting ways of action, even more so if they happen in a society that doesn't change often, if it even does.

And yet we see them docily submitting to the new way of life that the Alliance - led by Commodore Matthew Calbraith Perry no doubt - brought from across the ocean.

Ah yeah, sorry, Fandral. See >>50236551

(pic related, that's the guy who forced Japan to open and modernize. Spoiler: Japan did modernize, but Satsuma rebellion and civil war happened before that)

>>50237136
>I like how you pretend that the "nature magic" Malfurion used is something that can be called forth at a whim and didn't come at a great cost.

Never pretended that: >>50237185

>>50233719
>set during Legion
>but the campaign is MEANWHILE AT NEUTRAL RACES
>you're all things like murlocs, furbolg, centaur
>trying to carve out your own little niche while the two superpowers and the class orders are busy and distracted

If elves hadn't introduced humanity to magic, would they be more focused on technology like dwarves and gnomes?

>>50237409
not necessarily.
gnomes are a dab hand at magic but they are inherently technologically adept. IIRC, when the dwarves met them for the first time, the dorfs had just discovered gunpowder but meanwhile gnomes were living at peace with their robochickens.

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>>50237409
They'd probably channel that Vrykul fury and become some of the world's best berserkers.

Either that, or become obsessed with THE LIGHT even harder than Draenei.

>>50237595
>They'd probably channel that Vrykul fury and become some of the world's best berserkers.

>ywn see this humanity face off against the orcs and do awesome shit with dorfs

Damn.

>in every fanatsy setting ever elves are a dying race steadfastly clinging to their own ways and wailing about their inevitable extinction

>in wow the elves quickly get their shit together,adapt, find allies, and become active in the world securing their status as the second most important part of the alliance instead of being an isolationist has been

Yeah I know, some people cant deal with the same cliché not being retread for the 800th time.

>>50237797
Vrykul should have been the new alliance race instead of worgen.

I mean seriously, they're the setting's Goliath, which makes them monstrous but still human enough to be considered a "pretty" race that fits perfectly well with the standard issue player races like humans and dwarves.

Worgen were a mistake. A BIG mistake!

>>50226271
How the fuck are naga gonna be playable? Forget the fact that they're mortal enemies to both night elves and dark spear trolls, they're physiology alone bars them from that.

>>50238331

Would have been real nice thematically, all the descendants of titans on the same team.

>>50238421
Something, something, naga subrace with legs.
They already did that with the naga brutes. Concept art showed them with serpentine lower bodies like the rest of tha naga, but it was apparently too much work to implement (the model is just a reskinned gronn skeleton, and changing the feet to a snake tail would mean redoing the model and animations, rather than just changing superficial details) so they agve them feet.

Blizz also confirmed that not all naga serve Azhara and the Old Gods. Different groups of them may have different goals. Tomb of Sargeras will involve some naga who are likely allied with the Legion, and of course you also have the Illidari naga who followed lady Vashj.

>>50231273
Guldan, please stop, it's not even subtle anymore

>>50238678

>snakemen
>no snake tails

what would be the fucking point then?

>>50232173
It's in the lastest patch Suramar storyline.

All the other elves (High,Blood and Night) band together and siege Suramar.

Elisande ZA WARUDO's their entire army and Khadgar/Occuleth even have some Dragonball moment where they go ''H-HOW IS SHE GENERATING THIS MUCH POWER???!!''.

But on a lesser scale Thallysra can do small,individual time freezes and Occuleth is a master of space magic. The elves are big guns, Jaina and Khadgar are overrated, and the real big dick magical might of humans were Aegwynn and Medivh.

>>50238331
>>50238656
>vrykul impressed by human's fighting prowess in the Northrend campaign
>reconcile with their lost 'children' and start cultural exchange and teaching and learning from them

>>50238779

I always got the gist that while elves might be vastly more skilled and powerful, humans are the ones who get off their asses and willing to get their robes dirty. Ambition and trying hard trumps talent. You'd be suprised how often it actually happens IRL too.

>>50239073
Also IIRC doesn't using arcane magic have a negative effect on your longevity?

>>50239149
mages either live longer than regular people, or using arcane magic slows the process of ageing so they get old and die later but faster. Mages in Dalaran tend to live to an extremely advanced age without any type of slowdown of their abilities

>>50238331

The Worgen are another bad attempt to stick a monster race into the Alliance. All the talk of how savage they are is trash since we already had the Night Elves and them being in the superhero faction blocks that part of the race from being done justice.

>>50233826
>Koltira and Thassarians Radical Roadtrip
Hell yeah motherfucker

Slightly magical realm but.. I'm very disappointed how egalitarian all races became. The only time sexism gets brought up is when some draenei vindicator brings it up in Shadowmoon.

I expected the night elves to be fiercely matriarchal, jokingly sending men to the kitchen, sentinels hitting on men, talking shit about how 'manly' it is to run from a battle and how cooking and changing diapers is a job fit for a man. Maybe add some very confused human paladins as a straight man to the joke.

>>50241468
playable night elves/druids were a mistake

>>50241468
>I expected the night elves to be fiercely matriarchal

Why?
They ran to the men for help as soon as things got tricky.

>>50236551
Don't forget that night elves aren't nocturnal anymore because 'reasons'.

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>>50241000
Worgen and the Night elves will always be held back as long as Blizz keeps writing the entire Alliance as one whole group in the Lawful Stupid side of the pendulum. "Savage" is Horde only trait.

>>50241497
Truth.

>>50241545

That made sense tho. It was the inversion of an old fantasy trope, where men are all fighters, rangers and shit and the women are healers standing behind with a staff. They were the complete opposite. Even Tyrande was just bossing Malfurion around.

>>50237225
That sounds fucking dope, actually. What race would be ideal? Maybe Furbolg? They can unite both tribes.

>>50243063

Furbolgs are heavily alliance-related, many of them are even alliance flagged. Hell, the Stillpine tribe just joins up wholesale when the draenei help them out.

It should be murlocs or gnolls.

Anyone have a pdf for the first edition player manual?

>>50241468

They weren't matriarchal ( at least not in that women had exclusive rulership ). They had strict roles for men and women sure, but not matriarchy.

Just look at the non-retconned War of the Ancients backstory. Malfurion is the man who spearheads the fight against the Highborne.

>>50242209
Not really.

It was based on DnD's Drow.

>>50235173
Wyerns are sentient tho.

>>50234748
Aye that was cool.
But then they joined they Zerg faction.

>>50238421
What about Naga bars them from being playable? You just give them armored aprons and banding down their tails.

>>50244914
Personally I can only imagine Naga being playable as shifters like Worgen. I'd imagine that defeating N'zoth weakens the "curse" of the Naga, allowing them to switch between their Naga and Elf forms. All you need to add to that is some sort of Old God corruption/mind control that they are now free of, or some new faction of Naga that aren't really evil after all.

>>50245026
Why? It is not like we don't already have playable 100% non-shifter furry races and last time I checked being evil hasn't stopped Forsaken from being playable.

Biggest problem with snake naga is that blizz probably would be too lazy to figure out how they would mount shit.

>>50235437
Arthas and nerzhuls true endgame.
Kill the old gods and lelgion uniting the world in commie undeath.
????
One true kang

I hope the Ebon Blade sorts out their shit and become good lads again

I feel dirty playing a death knight knowing how much paladin blood is on my hands now. Lads from the ashen verdict slain on holy ground just so we could botch raising Tirion and Bolvar could gloat about how whipped we are

>>50245118
Mostly an armor thing. Waists, legs, and feet just don't work on Naga. The only way I could see them getting around that is by shifting forms. Perhaps rather than Worgen, what I'm thinking of is closer to Druids.

>>50245249
Yeah I'm legitimately sad. I always believed the Ebon Blade and Argent Crusade grew to be good allies and friends during the Northrend campaign. I never wanted to see them fight each other.

>>50245249

Paladins are mook tier at this point, worse than Demon Hunters and Death Knights in the eyes of the Naaru. Paladins literally fuck up everything they touch. Turaylon died somewhere in space, Arthas betrayed his vows, Uther died in vain, and anyone who wields the Ashbringer dies a horrible death without achieving much of any lasting permanence.

>>50245362
They work but are bufar'd like worge ln tauren etc...

>>50245379
>>50245249
>We need all the forces we can gather to fight the lelgion
>Ok, so we rise tirion who is OP as fuck light channeler, then let him die and have him die fighting azeroth until it's saved
>NO. REEEEEE. NO HELPING THE AZEROTH, I DUN WANNA GIVE ANYTHING, MUH LIGHT MOOP DE DOOP FUK UR WARRANTS I'M FREE TO GO.
>Light being the usual shit has to save paladins AGAIN because they can't do shit
Fact: Paladins are bad jokes.
Fact: Undead Tirion would kick the legion's ass harder than alive tirion would.

>>50245362
>>50245391
Naga's armor works since BC and probably earlier it does however have some problems.
>Tails are split in pants and shoes, making them just a strip
>Female naga however can't wear much armor or any iirc at all because of how their skeletons work (2 sets of arms instead of the usual 1)
>Heads don't do nice with hats iirc (that can be fixed 'easily')
>Lore wise it's confirmed nagas aren't a monolithic entity like the scourge or old gods which never split apart except in some particular cases (and even then, not much. See klaxxi and forsaken, one just went "Yeah discount ysaarj is here, we love garrosh now" and the other is "We're following the banshee QUEEN! IT'S NOT THE SAME")

Problem with races isn't code-wise either (Game 'devs' being dogshit notwithstanding). Code wise races are literally twenty minutes and a can of beer. Problem is designing assets and fitting old assets to them, specially the more monstrous they're. And naga females are full on monster here. Also naga's natural body would have shitload of clipping elements like fins, tentacles.

>>50245435
>Fact: Undead Tirion would kick the legion's ass harder than alive tirion would.
I agree. I just wished the Ebon Blade tried a more peaceful approach. I doubt they could have convinced the paladins, but I think they should have at least tried to get the point across that Tirion would most definitely not be opposed to being risen to keep fighting the good fight. The guy was even willing to become the new Lich King in order to protect everyone.

>>50245489
>tfw no player driven development
>tfw you'll never shitpost for hours on WHY tirion should be risen with other players

>>50231027
Sabellian is probably a better team player who works well with others, and strikes me as being relatively sane compared to some other blacks. Deathwing probably just found him to be more reliable than the others.

>>50235173
>dragons
>doing nothing/allied loosely with the night elves.
>Blue Dragons crystallized entire city of NE when they stepped in their turf
>centaur
>worshipping a KoTG.
You mean killing said KotG and worshipping Theradras, right?
>mountain giants were nelf allies.
seems like allies of convenience/gameplay unit without real lore ties, as they are nowhere close to NE now.

>>50236985
>arcane magic that summoned the horde
Pretty sure that Dark Portal was soul-powered, which is Fel, not Arcane.

>>50236985
>In fact, Archimonde was destroyed by ancestral *nature* magic,
Actually, World Tree is placed above second Well of Eternity, which makes it a mix of Nature AND Arcane magic, rendering your entire argument void.

>>50238656
>all the descendants of titans
If Vrykul, Mogu, and Tol'vir would join the Alliance, who would have to join the Horde?

>>50245026
That's because you're blinded with autism.

There's no reason they need legs at all besides the fact that you're some kind of lobotomite.

They ride side saddle, in chariots or plainswalk.

Their Waist armour is as normal.
Their pants are an armored apron/tabard that goes from waist down. Their boots are armoured rings around their tail.

Female Naga wear crowns instead of helms.

They use the same area disc as every other race for determining damage.

There are many factions of Naga. Some are even dedicated to Illidans cause.

Why would pushing back the tendrils of an old god change the curse exactly? It's already been made. The schematics of a device aren't suddenly incomplete if I cut the fingers off of the engineer that made it.

>>50245851
Pandas because fuck de mogu.
Goblin and ogre because rightful horde

>>50245851
Mantids, Nerubians and Ogres of course.

>>50238779
Elisandre have direct access to Nightwell, which would definitely allow her to do more than Thallysra can at the moment.

Khadgar is pretty powerful by most standards, but I agree that Jaina is overrated. Antonidas likely were pretty powerful too, though likely not as much as Meryl Felstorm.

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>>50245861
>There's no reason they need legs at all besides the fact that you're some kind of lobotomite.
Never said they needed legs.
>Their pants are an armored apron/tabard that goes from waist down. Their boots are armoured rings around their tail.
The main problem with this is that it would require a new version of every non-robe leg piece in the game. And then you have to hope they don't just half-ass it otherwise you get something like pic related which looks both shitty and very impractical for them.
>Why would pushing back the tendrils of an old god change the curse exactly? It's already been made. The schematics of a device aren't suddenly incomplete if I cut the fingers off of the engineer that made it.
It was just a possible convenient excuse. And it's not like all curses are the same you know. Removing the caster/source would be a believable way of fixing the problem.

>>50245961
>Nerubians
>Natural enemies of Tol'vir
>Brought Obsidian Destroyers to the Scourge, which they likely inherited from their Aqir ancestors, which took over facilities of Ahn'Qiraj and Azjol-Nerub, once manned by Tol'vir
I dig that.

>>50245390
>meanwhile DK arthas was the bantzmeister and the most characterful character in a game with millions of characters.
How can pallies even compete.

>>50245249
Think of it this way. DKs slap liadrin's ass and feel it jiggle.

>>50245778
>Dragons
>Entire portions of the night elf race part of the emerald dream and buddy buddy with ysera.
>Ysera and Alextrasza were on first name relations with furion and tyrande.
>mountain giants are referred to as night elf friends
>they are peaceful nature loving creatures that live on night elf turf, same as the dryads/furbolgs.

>>50246253
>dryads
Children of Cenarius
>furbolgs
That's because they lived there before Elves, but after Trolls
>mountain giants are referred to as night elf friends
Not saying that I don't believe you, but citation would be nice. Besides, where are they now, if they are such "friends" of Night Elves?
>Ysera and Green Dragons
Druids =/= entirety of NE race. And Green Dragons do not treat forests as sacred, maybe except of portal trees to Emerald Dream, but they are just small groves in various forests, where Elves weren't really that allowed all the time
>Alextrasza and Ysera being on first name with Tyrande and Furion
Were they really? Ysera to Furion due to Cenarius, maybe. But both to him and Tyrande for 10 000 years? Doubt it.

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>>50245249
>>50245379

>Why can't we all just be friends?

See this? This is the same line of reason that cost us Jaina and Wrynn.

>>50246316
>mountain giants are referred to as night elf friends
>Not saying that I don't believe you, but citation would be nice. Besides, where are they now, if they are such "friends" of Night Elves?
Malfurion refers to them as "friends of old" in that TFT mission where he and tyrande rescue Maiev. After the night elf campaign was resolved they pretty much fucked off back in to the mountains, mostly feralas i think.

>>50246466
Doubtful. No Mountain Giants there either. I am amazed that NE weren't triggered every time they used trees as clubs.

Hard to treat it seriously now. Same with Chimaeras.

>>50246824
>>50246824
>now
the retconned lore is a fucking joke.
Let it die.

WC3 era night elves were loosely affliated with the children of cenarius, mountain giants (who were present in aszhara in vanilla BTW, chimaeras because each faction needs a monstrous unit and don't fit.

>>50246824
>No mountain giants in Feralas
http://www.wowhead.com/quest=25346/mountain-giant-muisek
There's plenty of quests regarding them in the zone.

>>50242209
>where men are all fighters, rangers and shit and the women are healers standing behind with a staff.

Druids weren't just healer though.
They were powerful fighters.

So besides the whole Runic Brand thing, any Vrykul can become a true Val'kyr, right?

If so, would that mean any human or human descendant could become a Val'kyr permanently? Or even any Titanforged?

>>50241468
What?The NElves weren't matriarchal by choice.

It was more like pre retcon all the men had to go to sleep so women were like ''well FUCK,guess we better do everything now''.

From war,to building,to cooking.

>>50246824

Cause they are not one dimensional treehuggers. Remember how one of their first quest was to cull animals to prevent overpopulation?

They also fielded mountain giants again in cata..

>>50246316

Except the time when the dragons liked the night elves so much they decided to give them immortality, immunity to disease and all the other good stuff. Thats also the reason they venerated dragons, especially Ysera and Alex as demigods

>>50247287
it's hard to say. Considering that Arthas could transform vrykul into val'kyr, I think all that's really necessary is extreme power over death, whether it's necromancy or Light-derived doesn't seem to matter, only changing whether the product is a shadow val'kyr or Light one

>>50224934
Ever read that one /tg/ pasta, the one about how elves and humans approach magic? It might not be about Warcraft, but sums up the situation quite well in my opinion:
>The elves spend decades minutiously studying every little subtlety magic has to offer just to perform a simple cantrip
>On the other hand, on the first day of Human Magic Academy, half the class was blown up, but all the survivors now know how to cast a fireball

>>50247731
wouldn't it be the opposite, since elves are inherently used to using magic.

>>50246894
>>50246895
>>50247357
>Cata
Explains why I never heard of it,since it's a minor quest and I dropped before WotLK, keeping up only with general lore.

Anyway, lore supports that Night Elves were not closely allied with Mountain Giants. And that includes OLD lore, before WoW:
>Mountain giants are composed of living stone and stout flora. Crafted epochs ago by the titans from massive sections of stone, these creatures seek to protect the natural environment from any who would cause it harm. Benevolent and solitary by nature, the mountain giants have awakened to find that the tranquil world they once helped to shape has become a hectic battlefield of fire and sorrow. Now the mountain giants have pledged their courage and strength to the night elves' cause — and stand ready to banish the last remnants of the Burning Legion from the world. These giants can take incredible amounts of punishment from attackers.[1]
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne manual, pg. 17
>The mountain giants awoke from their "timeless slumber" when the Burning Legion attacked in the Third War, apparently having helped the night elves long ago.[2]
"Terror of the Tides: Balancing the Scales", Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. Blizzard Entertainment. Broken Isles. Malfurion Stormrage: "The Legion's coming awoke many of our old friends from their timeless slumber. These mighty ones will be of great help to us.".

cont.

>>50247922
>They seem to have started sleeping when Loken initiated stasis of the giants.[3]
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King. Blizzard Entertainment. Halls of Stone. Tribunal of Ages: "Unknown. Data suggests that impetus for global combat originated with prime designate Loken who neutralized all remaining Aesir and Vanir affecting termination of conflict. Prime designate Loken then initiated stasis of several seed races including Earthen, Giant and Vrykul at designated holding facilities.".
> The mountain giants assisted the night elves not due to a desire to help them in particular, but because the night elves were the largest local force who opposed the Burning Legion. Short of a planetary threat, it is rare to see mountain giants, faerie dragons or chimaera fighting with a mortal army.[4]
Ask CDev Answers - Round 3

>>50247930
>Ask CDev Answers - Round 3
>Why don't we see mountain giants, faerie dragons, chimaera, and certain ancient units from Warcraft III like the ancients of winds or wonders and trees of life aiding the night elves now?
>Many of the forest creatures that assisted the night elves were not, obviously, part of the actual military hierarchy of the Sentinels. The mountain giants, for instance, hold allegiance only to the titans, while the faerie dragons and chimaera are simply somewhat intelligent animals with ties to the Emerald Dream and Nordrassil, respectively. These beings all assisted the night elves not due to a desire to help them in particular, but because the night elves were the largest local force who opposed the Burning Legion. Short of a planetary threat, it is rare to see mountain giants, faerie dragons or chimaera fighting with a mortal army. The ancients, on the other hand, suffered heavy losses during the Third War, with many, especially the varieties that were never in great supply to begin with, returning to the forests to hopefully spread their seeds and replenish their numbers undisturbed.

>>50247382
Except they did that because Night Elves consisted of main force fighting Legion, Illidan have just created another fucking Well of Eternity (though he didn't poured all of the Vials he possessed, which allowed World Tree to bind it in the first place) on Mount Hyjal (a place connected to Ancient Guardians and Emerald Dream), which is why they HAD to create World Tree from seed of G'hanir, which led the (relatively) sane or not devastated (poor Malygos) Aspect to also make Night Elves guardians of the place and give them blessings that would help them with it.

Night Elves treating those 3 Dragon Aspects as demigods is not making Alextrasza into a person that is first name basis with Tyrande thorough 10 000 years. Same with Ysera. Not mentioning Nozdormu.

>>50247922

Most likely they never needed them as living war machines before so they just lived and let them live.

>>50248189
Or, more than likely, they were asleep most of the time, and every time NE tried to poke them, they got squashed.

>>50248216

You can see them wandering around in Feralas and they arent doing shit.

>>50248259
>Feralas
>After Cataclysm
Thanks for proving my point.

>>50221960
so what they've always been. Man just because they don't have female models doesn't mean they're a fucking monogendered species you maniac fetishist, it means Blizzard's cheap.

>>50233830

Only example I've seen where Arcane does the same is Glubtok over in Deadmines. Pushes himself too far in gathering arcane power and manages to turn himself into a pile of ash.

>>50238421
People've been saying "we're gettin naga!" for forever, and we didn't get playable jinyu and hozen when they joined the alliance and horde, sadly.

>>50239073
Well Ellisandre's off her ass now.

>>50241468
yeah that'll play in today's climate.

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Anyone put any thought into running a game based on Mean Streets of Gadgetzan?

I absolutely love the visual design and aesthetic of this set and it saddens me that it will never be played out in any game other than Hearthstone.

>>50248668
its literally a gobbo town with hearthstone aesthetics.

You would be better off running a game in booty bay or ratchet since they are major ports.

>>50248668
That female ninja pandaren looks hot

>>50248706
Gadgetzan is (in lore) a big port too, its even the capital of the steamwheedle cartel

>>50248706
> major ports.

Gadgetzan is a port town now, they explained this in the lore panel for the Hearthstone set.

The dynamic of the three gangs in the city is also a billion times more interesting than anything in Booty Bay or Ratchet.

>>50248708
>Kunoichi Pandaren in chinese dress
>Impregnatiom.jpeg

>>50248747
it was a port town since 2011.

>>50248748
When i first saw her i though she was supposed to be lili, they have the same pandaren loli body types

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>>50248776
Yeah, but it was also the smallest goblin town in the game in 2011.

This is what it looks like now.

>>50221885
>Traveler
>canon
So, I guess it confirms that Orcs are descendants of Ogres?

>>50248668
>Zandalari Troll can change into dragon-like being
This Red Mana thing seems to be some Mighty Mojo.

>>50248668
Why is the warcraft setting so much more interesting when there ISN'T a world-ending threat?

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So is it safe to say that if I wanted to run a game in the WoW setting, I'd be better off just homebrewing something than going with this right?

>>50249081
I mean its not bad.

>>50249033
Difference between a TTG versus an MMO, man. You need SOME kinda endgame goal, while they're best in the background to be chosen as the endgame threat by the gm for a TT setting.

>>50249033
The statement is correct unless there is massive Faction War theme, which is worse than world-ending threats.

>>50248800
I wonder how long for it being included in WoW.

>>50249033
because for whatever reason, Blizzard's writers are much better at producing background than actual plot

>>50249143
which is why Cataclysm sucks so much

>>50250012
>which is why Cataclysm sucks so much
>Faction War maxed for the first time
>World-ending threat at the same time
You do have a point.
At least Legion has just Legion as world-ending threat, while faction war is limited to minimum.

In comparison, MoP had pretty nice lore, and the story outside of Faction War was pretty good. But when we do include Faction War...

>>50248800
This is still a tiny-ass town for three whole gangs to duke it out in. I mean, if you can count the number of streets in your town on two troll hands, you probably aren't big enoug for ONE gang.

>>50249081
If you aren't married to having classes, Warcraft barely needs any brewing at all for most standard stuff.

>>50250378
>This is still a tiny-ass town for three whole gangs to duke it out in.

I mean it's like the entire size of Tanaris. That's about as big as WoW cities get. In fact, I think might actually make it THE biggest city in WoW in terms of much space it takes up.

>>50245827
The arcane magic of the Tree, sapped from the Well underneath, was the goal of Archimonde to get swag powers and rob the Nelves of their immortality.
What destroyed Archimonde (and the Tree, I suppose) was "several thousands" of wisps exploding, which are fey nature spirits, called forth by Malfurion using the Horn of Cenarius.

My argument still stands healthy, but you tried.

>>50250956
Whisps always had ability to cause damage to summoned beings in WC3.
What happened is basically something akin to what happened with original Arcan'dor in Falanaar, except intentional.

Whisps are basically NE souls anyway, which hardly makes them Nature spirits.

>>50245812
Yes.
Aside from the decontextualization of your quoting though, the point is that Medivh was still an arcane mage, that got corrupted over the lust of power. Thus, he began experimenting with Fel.
Which I suppose is more or less the reason why the Nelves banned arcane magic in the first place: it's sort of a gateway drug that seems to end with attracting daemons from other planes and orcs from other worlds.

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>>50251041
Yes, it's a trope called Chekhov's Gun if you wish to know more.

They are. Pic related.

>>50251108
>Wisps are ancient spirits of nature that inhabit the forestlands of Kalimdor. They are actually the disembodied spirits of deceased night elves who have become one with the forest, though their minds and the way they perceive things is very different than in life.[1]
Quest:Wisp in the Willows
>During the final battle of the Third War, thousands of wisps, known as Ancestral Spirits, gathered at the call of the Horn of Cenarius to destroy the demon lord Archimonde and save the world.
>During the quest A [15] Coaxing the Spirits, the spirits of the dead inhabitants of the Ruins of Auberdine are coaxed from their bodies and appears as wisps.
>During the Burning Legion's third invasion of Azeroth, the wisp summoned by [G'Hanir, the Mother Tree] destroyed the pit lord Destromath on Mount Hyjal.
That's hardly proving that their ability to detonate mana to banish summoned beings is related to Nature magic.

>>50251081
>the point is that Medivh was still an arcane mage, that got corrupted over the lust of power.
You mean, he was possessed by Avatar of Sargeras, which gave him Fel powers on top of Arcane powers of the Guardian.

>>50248668
Man I kind of hate Blizzard's philosophy for new content.

There's never any room for low-key content like this EVERYTHING has to be bigger, badder, and set on a completely different continent while the rest of the old world rots.

Imagine if we got Gadgetzan as patch content that was comparable to Suramar.

>>50251166
I had the impression that it was subtler than that. That is, being the receptacle for Sargeras since he was in his mother's womb, he grew up with morbid curiosity for bad, demonic magic. Not that when he was born, he had green flaming balls orbiting his head.

>>50251151
I am not trying to prove that their ability is nature magic.
It says right there that their essence is that of fey nature spirits.

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Hi /tg/, i'm an editor for wowpedia and I was wondering if any of you had a link to pdf of the books that blizzard release in the last years. Art books, novels, Ultimate Visual guide, I'll take anything I can use as a source for the wiki.

In return have some cheesy OCs I commissionned

>>50235437
Start off in Naxx with KT as your faction leader, plot of vanilla is mostly securing your position and in BC you go to Outland to gather information about Legion activities and stop Kael from bringing them back to Azeroth.

In Wrath Arthas and Ner'Zul wake up with the plot being a race to Icecown, for your characters to rejoin with your king and find out what the plan is, for the Alliance and Horde, to try and stop him from eradicating all life if that's his intention.

Along the way you fight Nerubians who have returned to the Old Gods and other Old God servants. And potentially Mal'Gannis and some of the Deadlords who have returned. Culminates in reaching Icecorwn where the Lich King welcomes you as his greatest champions and declares war against the Old Gods, guess Yogg-Saron would be the final villain here.

Cata and the other expansions are mostly unchanged with Legion seeing KT and later the Lich KIng himself lead a force to drive back the legion, also include a revelation that Icecrown has spent the last few years developing space faring Necropolis' to take the fight to the legion.

Erradicating life takes a backseat as the LK figures that as time goes on, people will recognise the superiority of the Scourge. Races could be undead humans, Nerubians, undead Elves and not sure about the others. Vykrul joining after Wrath.

Or

It would require changing WC3, but have Arthas rebel and re establish Lordaeron with Deathknights replacing the nobility. And have an undead fantasy kingdom.

>>50245606
That was my assumption as well. That fanfiction where he returns to Azeroth to fuck up Wrathion to pay him back for attacking his children seems to assume that too.

Do we know if Sinestra was his mother as well? or was he born before Deathwing went full lava and metal monster tier?

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>>50251300
>tfw no THICC vrykul GF

>>50251300
>Commission from Greenmarine
>Not lewd
Come on anon

>>50251236
Well, both Sargeras and Arcane power of Guardian remained dormant until his 30s, or something.

Then again, Medivh only created the rift between worlds, while all the other work belonged to Gul'dan and his warlocks (and maybe Cho'Gall).

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>>50251686
Answer my request and I may deliver some titties

>>50251287
Outdated wowwiki. wow.gamepedia is where one should only go.
And even in Warcraft 3 manual, their status of nature spirit is dubious, given that they were suspected to be spirits of deceased NE.
>Wisps are ancient spirits of nature that inhabit the forestlands of Kalimdor. Legends say that Wisps are actually the disembodied spirits of the Night Elves themselves, but these rumors have yet to be proven. The Wisps act in unison with the Night Elves and serve to strengthen the demigod like trees known as the Ancients. Beckoned by the Night Elves, Wisps are capable of animating various trees and expanding themselves into rough-hewn structures of living wood and stone.

And unless you can prove what you wrote here >>50236985
>In fact, Archimonde was destroyed by ancestral *nature* magic
and that Wisps are using Nature magic when detonating, your argument is baseless.

>>50251300
http://www.kickasstorrentsce.com/p/world-of-warcraft-chronicle-volume-i-2016-digital-minutemen-midas-cbr-nem-t12257029.html

>>50251787

I see nothing contradictory. Night elves are so close to nature they become nature spirits upon death and those nature spirits animate their ancients too.

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>>50251861
I already own that book

Thanks anyway

>>50251921

Why draenei are so cute.

>>50251897
>animate their ancients too
Ancients are demigod-like trees. The wisps act in unison with the night elves and serve to strengthen the demigod-like trees known as the Ancients.[1] The ancients were among the first creatures of Azeroth, the first guardians of its life.[2]
>1 Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos Game Manual, pg. 119
>2 World of Warcraft: Stormrage, pg. 148
Ancients vastly predate wisps AND Night Elves, so they are not "their" Ancients. Gameplay and Story Segregation, if you like mentioning tropes.

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>>50252140
They are perfect.

>>50251300
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7ga7tr72258wa/World_of_Warcraft Maybe there is some stuff here ?

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>>50252497
I already own all these books too, but thank you for being based anon. I'm sure other anons will find this folder useful

Have some cheesecake

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Anyone have downloadable Traveler/knows if it's any good?
To be honest, I would be content with art alone, with optional text that comes along with art to see why they are there.

>>50253064
Try /co/'s Win-O-Threads, if those are still a thing; I haven't been around those parts in ages.

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>>50251787

>wisps are ancient spirits of nature
>wisps are spirits of nelves that became one with the forest - that is, to be a wisp you need to be one with nature
>wisps gather lumber without hurting trees
>wisps strengthen Ancients, who are tree-like nature spirits
>wisps turn into living wood structures
>wisps that blew up Archie are called Ancestral Spirits - they might as well be the seeds for the Ancients for all we know.

Wisps are not complex beings friend. They are primigenial and pure in their substance. There is nothing that tells they use something else other than nature magic, and tons of information that scream nature magic. Do you want them to be green too, to dispel all doubts?

Also pic related. Guess what? The infos are the same. Because the lore is still the same, no matter if it's wiki or pedia.

>>50253197
So, why are incorporeal beings being unable to damage trees is treated like something surprising?

>have the power to detonate, causing a backlash of mana
Backlash of Mana. We know how Nature Magic, used by Druids, works. They don't use Mana, like those who dabble with Arcane.

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>>50253174
Unfortunately, no sign of Win-O-Thread, not mentioning it's a children novel with some images, not full comic.

>>50253383
>incorporeal
That's not the point. The point is their affinity to nature that underlies in all the other characteristics of wisps. But you conveniently keep failing to notice it.

>mana
Mana is a game mechanic concept that relies on an umbrella term to indicate the juice spellcasters cast spell with.
It also is a term that in our real world means "power", and is often associated with natural phenomenons like thunder, storms and other shit that polynesian primitives found powerful.
If this is all you have to say wisps are linked to the arcane, then be my guest, i'm fucking tired of pointing out their overwhelming natural essence and linking your website of choice to make you happy.

>>50253409
Chronicle wasn't a comic (let alone a full one), but they had it nonetheless when it came out. But, if there's no WOT, the point is moot anyway.

>>50253899
I only found Chronicle in the immediate archive. Maybe some older archives would help.

>>50253946
Nvm, no Traveler yet.

Traveler is technically a children's book.

How weird would it be if I ordered it? I'll be 25 this week but I am obsessed with Warcraft despite the lore not having actually held up since 2004.

>>50254127
And I need this book.

>>50254127
It has art of female Ogre. Is there any other reason to not get it, other than waiting till April for Chronicle 2?

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So, when will N'zoth be relevant? Is he imprisoned in a titan facility like others, or not?

>>50253709

>phenomenons

>>50254127
>but I'm obsessed with Warcraft

Just being curious, what exactly keep you like this?

>>50251398
doing Cata as a Scourge death knight would be hilarious
>tfw you parachute onto Deathwing's back and he's flying too fast for you to tell him you have a legal warrant to search the premises for Old God corruption

>>50255358
>Generals KT and Rivendare giving you your marching orders as you and your raid group launch out of your Necropolis on your Gargoyle strikers.

How can the Horde and Alliance compete.

>>50255425
>Scourge raid group goes into MoP raid
>carts full of unidentifiable Mogu chunks come out
>suspiciously Chinese-looking abominations appear afterwards

>>50255459
Well if Jainia and steal a demi-gods power, and the Blood Elves can make super constructs.

Imagine the quest line where you pilot an obsidian destroyer to blow holes in invading lava giants.

Or in Siege of Orgimmar where the Lich King and Sindragosa show up with a Frostwyrm brood and tear the walls down.

>>50255521
>go to Alternate Draenor
>unleash Plague on Botani
>unleash Plague on Arakkoa
>laugh heartily

>>50251398
You've got a point on Races, though I think a more finalized list would go:

>Vanilla: Ghouls, Nerubians, Darkfallen (all as you stated), Abominations (because why not)

>BC: Gargoyles (admittedly this is the weak link and maybe Geists or Skeletons work better)

>Cata: Vrykul, as you stated

>>50255678
>Horde and Alliance try fighting the Iron Horde
>the Scourge just plays with fungus monsters while throwing plague and blight around on everything

>>50255678
Ner'zul meets himself.

Was actually wondering about Amani Trolls for the BC race. Could do something with a tribe getting concerned about the Elves shaking up with the Horde and turning to the scourge in desperation. Would also play with the idea of the Scourge races being the twisted reflection of the other factions,and there are zombie trolls in the Belf starting area anyway. Abominations would be a good one for the final vanilla one though.

I did wonder about having Deathknights and Lich's as a race rather than classes, but I'm not sure how that would play out in practice. Or even if it would be suitable.

For making DK's open to all the factions I could see them being raised by the Lich King and then dispatched to watch for worthy champions in the Horde or Alliance. Although maintaining the class as NPC only might work better in practice.

>>50255855
>Ner'zul meets himself.
If WoD wasn't such a clusterfuck of bad writing that's being swept under the rug, this could still happen.
When you beat Ner'zhul, he's in a strange death dimension and he's throwing out a whole "Time is but a window, death is but a doorway, I'll be back" vibe.
Imagine what would happen to Azeroth if he managed to make his way through that death dimension to modern Azeroth and steals the Crown from Bolvar. Now you have double nigger Ner'zhul in charge of the Scourge and no emo faggot Arthas to hold them back.

>>50256648
Think at this point I'm fed up with Orcs, especially ones from WOD. But yeah I think he'll be back in the inevitable void expansion.

If we're fucking around with more time/ alt reality scenarios, I'd be far more interested in seeing something where Jainia goes full balls to the wall and tries to bring an alt dimension Arthas across and ends up with a full, muh light, high king of Lordaeron and grandmaster of the silver hand Arthas. All the more so if he comes with an army. That way there is someone to replace Tyrion and Maardrad to an extent as the major human/ alliance Paladin and a lot of interesting potential character interaction. Especially everyone's favorite dindu.

>>50255678
returning to this, Gargoyles make more sense as flying mounts. ghouls would get horses, not sure about the elves, abominations could get a chariot pulled by plague hounds and nerubians would have to have plains running.

>>50256648
>gee, Scourge, how come Blizzard lets you have TWO of your faction leader?

>We are the Scourge, the harbingers of Death

>>50256796
>Nerubians get plainsrunning
>implying the mental image of a huge Nerubian on a tiny skeleton horse isn't hilarious

And maybe the Darkfallen get undead whatever-those-BElf-birds-are?

Also, you could even keep the Vanilla dynamic where Paladins are Alliance-only and Shamans are Horde-only and add Death Knights (or maybe Necromancers?) as being Scourge-only.

>>50256865
Was thinking having necromancer as the replacement for a priest actually. Holy priests make even less sense here than they do with the forsaken. Deathknights would work as the paladin replacement, I'm guessing homogenization would leave them as just a different order of paladins in the end like the blood knights.

If undead Amani are used then undead bears makes the most sense for them. Darkfallen on hawkstriders seems logical, in Wrath they use horses, but that seems more likely due to the fact that they're limited in what they can use than by choice.

The cult of the damned in various forms would be the PvP factions I guess.

for racial leaders we'd have KT, later the LK, for ghouls, Lana for the Darkfallen, the Crypt lord in Naxx for Nerubians to start with before being replaced with Arub in Wrath and an OC for the abominations, or maybe a necromancer.

I need a good setting for a campaign. Preferably something not too early. Warcraft 3 and on. Most of my players haven't played the earlier WC games. Thought about a neutral faction campaign.

>>50257038
Jungle trolls in Stranglethorn? conflict between tribes, Hakkor worshipers and other loa, Goblins, Naga and hunting expeditions like Nessingway's could give you some stuff to base a campaign on.

>>50257038
Players could be a cross race or even cross faction group of adventurers who are tasked by Dadgar to investigate some Twilight Hammer scheming or some shit. That would be the easiest way to incorporate everybody's snowflake characters.

>>50255096
why do people argue over primarchs?

>>50254898
Personally I hope that going and fighting on Argus takes maybe a couple years in-game. Then we come back to Azeroth to find that N'zoth broke free, and was able to run rampant across the world along with the Naga.

>>50259660
>Cataclysm 2.0
>World infected by Old-God influence
>The Black Empire boii


Sadly it will never happen and we'll shrug off any funny business N'zoth is trying to pull in one patch.

>>50259660
>>50260696
Worse. With nobody around, bolvar has risen Tirion and Anduin.

>>50260696
Yeah, unfortunately Old Gods seems to be nothing more than minor diversions while dealing with other threats. Goddamn shame really.
>>50260807
>No suitable pawns are left on the planet for Bolvar to use
>Forced to unleash the scourge against N'zoth and its minions
This is a match up I'm actually dying to see. Would be interesting to see what the world would look like after that kind of war too.

>>50260911
>nobody to keep hin back
>he smashes the shit outta the "release zombos" button

>>50255855
>>50256865
>>50256929

If we're throwing out races for the Scourge tgen how about Blue Drakonoids? Have them join on Malygos' orders.

What do we do about the Forsaken and Ebon Blade? Still playable for Forsaken and joinable for EB??

>>50261143
>how about Blue Drakonoids? Have them join on Malygos' orders.
Why would Malygos aid guys who are raising his dead brethren in abomination of life, which is bad magic?

It's more likely that Malygos wouldn't go "Wipe out all the mages" than Malygos sending out his servants to join the Scourge.

Also, Trolls willingly joining Scourge are unlikely. Unless Drakkari, after given offer to join without being made undead.

>>50251300
Digimon are included now?

>>50261297
>>50261143

Yeah Drakonoids might be a step too far (although the usual splinter faction could work i suppose). I can see the Scourge and dragons being a plot point, but while they might be willing to go for the lesser evil angle I can't see any of them willingly being a part of it.

For the Amani I was thinking it would be more like one tribe that already got raped in the second war, has none of its leadership bar this one old witch doctor, who is desperately trying to keep things together while he's up to his arse in elves and its looking like he'll soon be adding Orcs and Forsaken to that.

So it's less a willing choice than him deciding that at least the spooky skeleton can ensure that the tribe will continue, even if it isn't living anymore.

Giests ect wouldn't be different enough from ghouls imo. still undead Tuskur or Wolvar might be an option.

I think the forsaken would have to continue. There's a far bit of banter opportunities for Slyvanas and KT to begin with and the LK later. Plus there's an opportunity there to have a PvP battleground with the forsaken attacking a scourge base or vise versa.

I can't see the Ebon Blade ever coming about here in all honesty. They always seemed a bit memey for me considering in WC3 they were all former paladins and knights that gave into despair, random murder hobo resurrected as a meat shield always seemed like a let down after that.

That said, the Plaguelands would probably end up as midlevel scourge zones anyway, so the entire story in that area would have to change.

>>50261571
>For the Amani I was thinking it would be more like one tribe that already got raped in the second war, has none of its leadership bar this one old witch doctor, who is desperately trying to keep things together while he's up to his arse in elves and its looking like he'll soon be adding Orcs and Forsaken to that.
Sounds like Amani version of Darkspear Tribe's history with Horde.

I would rather have Zandalari dragging all Trolls to the Horde under certain conditions (BE must concede parts of their lands to Amani, Horde must help Drakkari and Gurubashi to get back control over their ancestral lands) and something similar happening with some other group of races allying with Alliance.

Scourge would need something different, as I doubt that undead could call upon the power of Loa, which would be counter-productive for Scourge (the only reason why having living Trolls > undead Trolls for Scourge).

>>50261571
>I can't see the Ebon Blade ever coming about here in all honesty. They always seemed a bit memey for me considering in WC3 they were all former paladins and knights that gave into despair, random murder hobo resurrected as a meat shield always seemed like a let down after that.
Most of Ebon Blade were made from members of Argent Dawn or their associates (Cenarion Circle Druids, Earthen Ring Shamans, Steamwheedle Cartel Goblins doing business, Worgen that escaped from Pyrewood Village and/or Shadowfang Keep) slain during the pre-WotLK conflict in the Plaguelands.

>>50261622
Yeah like I said it was the first thing that came to mind when I thought about what happened in BC.

Living Drakkari might work, but again that might be a case too many trolls in too many places. Centaur maybe? I have to admit I'm struggling to think of anything.

A race from Outland would be ideal, but outside of the Arakoa, and I'm not sure how well they'd fit I can't really think of any races there that might fit. Unless horde got ogres, Belves went to Alliance and Scourge got the original, tribal, savage mutant Dranaei in all their big mouthed glory.

>>50261631
I always thought they were the one's who didn't survive Naxx in all honesty, with the Worgan and Gobbos fitted in.

I think it was more the contrast from an elite group with specific runeblades that were all unique, to something that the Scourge could essentially mass produce that bothered me more than anything.

>>50255096
It's a huge fuckton of nostalgia, mostly.

Warcraft 2 was my introduction to fantasy, in general. When Warcraft 3 came out I remember being so excited I couldn't shut up about it. I made up new factions and wrote out whole unit lists I would show to my mom and my sister just because I was so in love with it. There's also the bit that it was my escape zone because I got bullied over my Tourette's in school and later high school (and also being a thin skinned faggot who flew off the handle way too quickly).

I grew dissatisfied with WoW because it didn't "feel like Warcraft", anymore, so I stopped playing but I still kept a fairly close watch on what was going on from the sidelines. I nearly came when I saw the film (I nearly had a 25 raid worth of people as a group to watch on the first day it played in my country) because it gave me back my Warcraft despite having some serious retconning/AU writing. I have no shame to admit that I threw my money at that Blu-Ray steelbook the moment it was available for pre-order.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I had the gracious luck to have Warcraft at its peak being the best thing of my life when life sucked really bad and that forged a strong bond to that wonderfully trashy capeshit dadrock-dad fantasy. I have recently joined a private server and surprisingly, I just felt right at home. I guess I matured and just looked past the things that irritated me when I was a teenager.

I would still love for Azeroth to be less about fighting Lovecraftian shadow monsters while surfing on space ships charging my powerlevel over 9000 and noblebright powerblocks waving their political dicks around in a non-existent conflict and more about individual communities fighting for survival and wrestling for power, you know, how an actual medieval world. Just with magic, airships and guns.

>>50235437
"Scourge" can't be a faction because they're all for the most part mind controlled. "Cult of the Damned" however makes sene because it involves people willingly joining and accepting Ner'zhul as Azeroth's lord and saviour.

Semantics, I know.

>>50261687
>I always thought they were the one's who didn't survive Naxx in all honesty, with the Worgan and Gobbos fitted in.
That is most likely. Steamwheedle Cartel was doing business with Argent Dawn in Eastern Plaguelands in Vanilla, and Goblin DK was implied to be from that Cartel. Same with Worgen DK being from Pyrewood Village and somehow shaking off control of Arugal along with his friend, escaping, joining Argent Dawn.

But yeah, given that Naxx left to Northrend, and that only Lich King has enough power to turn Worgen undead (even Val'kyr can't), and that Arthas stood up from his chair some relatively short time before WotLK, Ebon Blade is likely using people that got wiped in raids on Naxx.

Likely all of instructors were as old as Warcraft 3 era, while players and some of the killed DKs mentioned in books, other members of Ebon Blade that were not older DKs that joined them, and Darion (who got turned some time after his raid defeated Four Horsemen, but likely didn't cleared entire Naxx) were from wiped Naxx rides.

So no mass producing, quality Death Knights require Lich King's direct involvement.

>>50261788
I suppose there is a huge difference in power between ner'zul and his solo act vs Arthas and him merged and jacked up too which might explain it.

>>50261775
>what is forsaken

>>50261775
Would you even notice a difference? Game play wise you might as well have no free will anyway as you just run around killing bears and taking their arses back to the quest giver.

>>50261875
>Quest givers are Liches and Necromancers that can control the undead on their own, sending them to do various tasks.
>Requests are simply orders
I dig that.

>>50261891
>Amon'thus sends you off to gather 14 corpses, you have to kill 19 mibs to get 14.

I imagine if this happened you'd be one of the ones capable of independent thought and action, would explain why you're considered valuable and worth keeping around.

>>50261775

TFT's Undead Campaign shows there are Undead or corrupted humans like Death Knights who'd help the LK without his magic. And besides, non-beast Undead show plenty of operating without the LK breathing down their necks.

>>50261913
>Your levelling up is reflecting the degree of independence the LK is allowing you every time you prove yourself to be more and more useful by surviving what would kill others

So, who opens new thread, as we're closing to archive?

>>50262416
making one literally now, hold on

new thread
>>50262439
>>50262439
>>50262439

>>50239073
In the Chronicle there was that great image of human mages in action right next to a text about the elves teaching humans magic and the first thing humans did was immediately use it to blow up as many trolls with fire as possible.