/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General: Sheila's knickers edition

>>50194083
Looking at the /tg/ character sheet, what do those triangles near the proficiency marker indicate? Just for extra visibility?

Also thanks for making the text a lot more accommodating, whoever that anon is

>>50194146
Can turn invisible (but only the item) at-will.

>>50193607
The best way to handle it is to ignore it. If anything, sleeping in full plate is more comfortable than in your skin, since you're not crushing an arm when you lay on your side. Chainmail and studded leather are what's a bitch to sleep in.

But just stop trying to inconvenience martial characters further. They have it bad enough without DMs looking to poorly-understood physics to fuck them over at every opportunity.
>real world humans can mount horses, do cartwheels, and swim in full plate
>gaming autists think it turns you into a clanking turtle that can't even stand up by themselves if prone
>real world humans march with rucksacks and gear weighing a hundred pounds for hours on end
>gaming autists think heavy armor, a sword, and shield makes a fantasy hero start panting like a dog after an hour of walking in direct sunlight on a spring day
It's not good.

Is anyone playing a Volo's guide character? How is it going? I'm currently reading through the Orc chapter to better flesh out my current half Orc.

Is there a good list online or downloadable with race summary for easy comparison?

>>50194182
>Can turn invisible (but only the item) at-will.
Perfect for the exhibitionist who wants to remain warm!

>>50194146
>Be sure to buy it and support the hobby even if you download it!

Why would I care about this shit? It's not like Hasbro is going broke any time soon.

Does anyone have any kind of random tables for Tiefling traits?

I found this old one from I think 2E (http://www.ekkaia.org/rpg/dnd/ps/tiefling.pdf) but I'd like one more up to date and with maybe some more interesting things, similar to the Aasimar ones from this image http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1478864090538.png

>>50194314
Pathfinder has one.

>>50194182
Expertise, as the rogue, knowledge cleric and bard features give.

>>50194305
Hasbro won't, but your FLGS sure can.

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>>50194314

>>50193607
Dragon aren't realistic. They ignore Cube-Square law.

Do you also make a dragon do a CON to see if they instantly die if they stand up due to blood pressure?

>>50194215
This, STR characters (martials in general too) already get fucked in so many ways, the game is not balanced around them being houserule-fucked as well.

>>50194314

The SCAG has one such table also.

>>50194454
You always need to pick and choose what you want to be like reality and what unrealistic things you're going to accept as conventions of the genre you're using. Creatures much too big for their body structure are a mainstay of not just D&D but also fantasy literature and mythology as a whole. Sleeping in armor, in contrast, mostly comes from video games. It's perfectly reasonable to have 50-foot-tall flying dragons but to not let people sleep in armor without consequences.

>>50194454
Dragons are common enough for anyone to be able to buy into. If something is unrealistic when it is a very normal thing, like sleeping in armor (even if realistically it's not actually very bad), then that can cause disbelief. Your argument is a shitty one, no matter how many times it gets repeated. If I made up a monster and I said it was comprised of helium, but it's on the ground anyway, would you find that ok? And yeah, "magic" is an easy excuse with both this and the dragon, but you can't do that with martial business as easily.

I need a character concept/build to play for a one shot tonight and I'm fresh out of ideas. Any suggestions on a build that's a lot of fun to play? It's pretty much anything goes for character gen

>>50194487
To wit, most people don't come to such opinions themselves, but especially as it comes to D&D, because someone told them "this is how it should be", and the developers pushed their biases into the debate (see everything Paizo does, Mearls with 4e Essentials).
There is a point where you either have to make a good game, or a fluffy game, because the 2 aren't the same, and I'd rather have a solid game without built in horse shit issues that other games dealt with literally a decade ago because "muh legacy, muh trve D&D".
From 2e to 4e, D&D was WILDLY DIFFERENT THINGS, so much so that you could not actually call them the same game were it not the label, and I hate every single one of you, including myself, for being such fucking worthless shitbags to keep such an outmoded, outdated, useless, personal opinion R us argument going for the sake of (you)s and Epeen.

>>50194509
UA ranger, Mystic, monstrous race anything.

>>50194509
A wizard who knows every spell you've never used before. Just try to sling as many firsts as you can.

>>50194539
Yeah the game mechanics become part of the fiction, no one questions how fast wounds close or how many hits you can take beyond the first 1-2 sessions because you get full hp on a long rest, and that's that. It's a big reason why D&D fantasy is a thing, and why there is a D&D setting that isn't FR or anything but just D&D.

>>50194509
Wholeling Halfling with a short Longbow

>>50194568
>>50194539
So... do we all agree that "People in D&D can sleep with armor on without difficulty" is perfectly acceptable then? Good! Let's focus on the fun aspect of the game.

>>50194591
The rules say otherwise, anon.

>>50194606
That's normally when you post a screenshot of the book, maybe even with some red lines or arrows pointing out the relevant parts.

>>50194606
Yeah, in 3.5 maybe. In 5e you can sleep just fine in it.

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>>50194615
Here you go.

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>>50194620

>>50194620
The only screencap you ever need

>>50194548
Don't be a mystic. It'll just be a pain in the ass for your DM because they work so much differently from any other class. The time involved might be worth it for an ongoing campaign, but not for a one-shot.

>>50194578
who leling?
I'm leling

>>50194509
Druid/Mystic, but the first UA mystic so that your psychic powers are still considered attacks that can be combined with pack tactics from lion.

So what's the best "slut" type of druid? Being immune to disease and not having to deal with divine fucks is a huge bonus, but I can't quite wrap my head around the different circles and how much impact they have. Moon druids could be fun, if only for the "everything I am carrying falls to the floor" effect.

>>50194830
>not going moon for horse penis

If you had to pull something truly weird and uncommon on your GM, in terms of classes and builds, what would it be?

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>>50194830
>So what's the best "slut" type of druid?
Another day, another step away from the light of the divine.

>>50194606
Go back to /pfg/.

>>50194707
It's not funny after the 20th time.

>player 1 rolls up a dragonborn 4e monk
>i explicitly tell him it's shit
>player 2 makes a mountain dwarf barbarian
>prepare myself for frontline shitshow
>even throw some bones to p1
>like +1 staff and more missile enemies so he can ebingly catch arrows
>it's still shit
>frequently complains about being shit and p2 doing much better than him

serves him right for making an ebin skyrim aang

>>50194830
GO BACK TO /PFG/ REEEEEE

>>50194830
That's not how Wild Shape affects equipment. Read.

The main use of the moon druid is the "onion druid." This means repeatedly using Wild Shape to become something with a bucketload of HP, than take damage with impunity until it runs out and you repeat the process. It rivals the bear barbarian in terms of pure ability to soak up damage, and of course it's still a full caster. It may not be able to cast new spells while in wild shape, but it can concentrate on spells such as Polymorph (to help a friend of yours do the same trick) or Conjure Animals (to make even more blobs of expendable HP and fuck with the action economy while you're at it.)

>>50194830
Land Druid of the forest allows Barkskin and Freedom of Movement. Even if you are stark naked your AC can't be lower than 16, throw a shield on and you may have more AC while naked than the fighter/paladin.

Freedom of Movement allows you to escape from restraints using 5 feet of movement. It's balanced to allow you to walk out of your clothes using only 5 feet of movement.

>>50194870
I was about to say "dragonborn actually make really cool monks in 4e" then realized you meant 4 elements.

>>50194905
Shield + Barkskin doesn't work that way.

Barkskin apply after shield +2 AC calculation. If you AC doesn't reach 16 after shield, your AC is now 16.

If your AC is more than 16 after shield, why the hell are you casting Barkskin in the first place.

>>50194843
Weird as in magical realm or weird as in uncommon.

Uncommon: Drow Monk, it would be uncommon but a good mesh of skills with supervisor darkvision and shadow step.

Magical Realm: Warlock with Mask of many faces to genderswap, and keep it going forever.

>>50194870
reduce cost of ki abilities from 4e subclass by 1
now it's fixed, there you go

How would you run hostile terrain? Things like murder-mountains, cripplingly cold places, poisonous swamps and the like, where enemies are rare and not the main threat. I'm worried that it would become too dull if it's just skill checks and saving throws without the satisfaction of defeating something.

>>50194922
Then just barkskin, still as much AC as chainmail.

>>50194843
orc wizard
gnome barbarian
kobold barbarian

monk ranger with archery style and the Mobile feat who only has monk levels so they can get more speed to kite with
devotion paladin 2: great weapon fighting style / valor bard X, take inheritor background for custom guitar that doubles as a Maul
chainlock 3 / battlemaster x just to have a sprite companion as a fighter

>>50194933
it probably will be.
hiking in the cold isn't exactly fun

>>50194933
You gotta hype it up then. Have NPCs warn them of the place and say they shouldn't go there, people go missing or end up dead all the time. It may have to just be rolls, but it's what the characters think.

Also there has to be good reason why they are there of course.

>>50194977
I was thinking of retrieving a treasure/s from a dead Morkoth's island. Without the morkoth's mainenance the place gradually decays and its denizens turn on one another.

>>50195031
I've actually never heard of a Morkoth and had to google it. And they seem to be the deep sea type of monster. What level are your players?

Does anyone have any form fillable character sheets updated with Volo's Guide character races?

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I made a spell that deals 4d4 acid and 4d4 poison damage on its first cast, half damage on a successful Constitution save, and each round after you make the save again or take 3d4/3d4 (half on a success and ends the spell), then 2d4/2d4, then finally 1d4/1d4 until it either runs out of damage dice or the target makes the save.

I have no fucking idea how to phrase this in a way that's consistent with the PHB's spell description phrasing methods. Everything I try to write comes out as clumsy and awkward. Help me out here?

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Do you use personality types such as the Enneagram or MBTI typings for your PCs? If so, give examples...

Or use pic related and give each type a D&D class. Extra points for using archetypes.

>>50195233
The target must make a constitution saving throw or take 4d4 poison, and 4d4 acid damage. On subsequent turns, the target must roll another constitution saving throw at the beginning of its turn. If it succeeds, the spell ends, if it fails, it takes 3d6 poison and 3d6 acid. The next turn, the target makes another constitution saving throw or take 2d6 poison and 2d6 acid. This spell lasts until the target makes the save, or takes 1d6 poison and 1d6 acid.

A lot of spells are clunky like that.

>>50194337
This is the point where you have to ask the DM
'Okay, can you show me where these seven people who should have disadvantage to stealth and perhaps have whatever amount of dexterity all rolled 27 or 28 or higher, and if we kill them as players can we get whatever gave them +20 to stealth too?"

Even pass without trace isn't THAT good, as far as I remember.

It makes you sound like a rule lawyer, but really it's calling a DM out on shittiness.

>>50193607
Don't.
Heavy armour already has more than enough disadvantages for the measly +1 AC it gives you, without you telling the person who made the sacrifice of dumping dex 'Okay, you now have an AC of 9. Fuck you, the wizard is now taking your role as tank instead." if they want to sleep without armour, or 'Okay, you're now weaker, fuck you.'

>>50195125
They're in Volo's. Their islands are described as shards of celestial matter adrift amidst the planes. The Morkoth reshapes them as they see fit, and are compelled to collect treasures, including people and creatures. The book doesn't specify what happens to the islands should the Morkoth die, but I imagine it would make it more dangerous.

As to player level, I run one-offs at my FLGS when too many people show up for AL. I'm trying to come up with more stuff as the book stuff is becoming repetitive.

>>50194830
Go warlock instead, get at-will 'alter self'
ERP the fuck out of everybody with your horsecock.

Be banned from everything, forever.

Have someone post your story on /tg/.

>>50195280
Thanks, that wording works better than anything I tried to write.

>>50195284
>It makes you sound like a rule lawyer, but really it's calling a DM out on shittiness.
I just rerolled, and told him to not be a bitch when he allowed me to take the options I did. He might have dialled a few stupid things that I didn't see a problem with, but he still has this issue with the other players where, if he feels they are "breaking the game" he'll just throw dumb shit at us that directly counters it for no explained reason. The 7 dudes were "just that good"

He isn't really reasonable, but he is the only guy willing to DM besides me, so if I want to be a player, he is my only choice.

Hate those kinds of people. It is not fucking difficult to tailor encounters around things a party does well. But you HAVE to tailor around it, just brute forcing it will never lead to a good result.

Best example of this caused a huge OoC argument - he had given us an amulet giving +3 AC. So we put the stupidly high AC paladin in front, gave him this amulet, and after a few spells pre-combat, he had like 28 AC. So the DM just gave all enemies +19 to hit.

How well do you think the AC17 thief did in combat after that?

>>50195296
>Be banned from everything, forever.
This is for a private ERP game with a few online friends for the time where we can't meet up.

They aren't expecting a weird turbo - fetish character, but it isn't really "out of place" anyway.

What is the best class to play a necromancer?

Alternatively, what is the best class to play a summoner of demons?

>>50195293
Well what could happen then as it drifts closer and farther to certain plains t may develop features similar to the nearest plane. If it drifts along the Beastlands the island may grow tall trees and deep forest, if it went past mechanus part of the island may have become metallic, with tin foil grass and metal plated paths.

And you could also say the island spins, so the parts of the island closer to the plane develops a certain aspect of that plane. The island could be a mosh up of lets say 2d4 planes you pick. If the characters are a high level, you can tell them they know that certain planes can have effects on people.

But to make it more focused on the environment, it's kind of hard to without illustration, you could have them have to beat skill encounters such as traversing a river, or have to jump from one cliff to another, but that doesn't have a lot of room for fun. Maybe like a guide to interact with may make it more interesting.

Surprise is granted when at the start of an encounter one side is attempting to hide and the passive (perception) scores do not notice the stealth check of the sneaking group.

What happens if half of the group is being sneaky, but the others aren't? Presumably no surprise, just advantage for being unseen?

After all, you can't have people surprised against only one thing. 'surprised' is a condition that lasts one round and basically means you can't do anything for the first, 'surprise' round.

>>50195382
If you're not banned, you're not trying to hyper-turbo-fetish hard enough.

I suggest turning into a bear and eating people.

>>50195390
I think necromancer wizard's buff to the skellies makes them the best, but Death domain cleric (from the DMG), and possibly some warlock multiclass so you can REALLY bring the horde) are also pretty good candidates.

Oathbreaker paladin also gets some undead bolstering aura I think, but needs help creating them.

>>50195390
Necromancy wizard is probably the best of the options of undying warlock, death cleric or necromancy wizard for it.

If you're thinking 'summoning creatures to help in combat', that is generally not very well supported and would slow down combat anyway. You can just get pact of the chain and summon a piece of shit imp to ruin everybody's day instead.

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>>50195390
Be sure to check out the Black Magic unearthed arcana, it added some demon summoning spells.

>>50195405
If the enemy is alerted to danger from even a single party member, then they're not surprised.

4e was pretty good.

I need puns for my fire sorcerer.

>>50195552
What if 4 people from your group are peacefully chatting with a guy (who does not think the group poses a threat), but then Mr. McFuckface Rogue is hiding off to the side unseen by everybody except his own group and then shoots a crossbow bolt?

>>50194443
That's the evil genius at work. Hasbro defers risk to the small business owners, then consumers are guilty of not supporting their community and shitting where they eat if they don't roll out and buy, buy, buy at those inflated prices.

>>50195560

http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Lina/Responses

Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for an evening. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

They call me 'H' 'cuz I turn asses to Ashes.

>>50195597
>waaaaaaah business

>>50195588
Then your party is also surprised, and don't get to partake in the surprise round.

>>50195560
You're fired.

Run it as an orange skinned entertainer with maximum charisma and political aspirations

>>50195612
i like the one you did

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>>50193607
What was wrong with previous way of dealing with sleeping in armor, ie. fatigue penalty based on armor class? Easy to remember and to check, and pretty fairly represents the trade off being modeled.

pic unrelated

>>50195617
Makes sense.

I suppose it might work if your entire party makes a sleight of hand / stealth check to conceal daggers they're gripping behind their backs or something, but then everybody else would be making some sort of check versus their passive perception too.

>>50194215
Just want to chip in that chainmail is actually cooler than wearing cloth, it acts like the heatsink in your computer to release that body heat faster

>>50195647
hahaha XD

>>50195674
If the enemy is looking right at you and fully aware of you, even if they don't perceive you as a threat, you don't get a surprise round if you suddenly start attacking.

>>50195670
Mostly the fact that you're wrong, in addition to the fact that you're further punishing STR based martials over DEX based ones.

I see what you're going for, but it's really not worth doing.

>>50195647
>>50195612

Oh, jesus, this is so much better. High CHA is even good for his concept. Fuck.

>>50195727
This creates the very unusual situation where a completely unwitting enemy may actually act before you get to act when you clearly make the first move (say, walking past a person on the street and pulling a knife on them).

I think what I said would work better, since everybody still has to roll stealth to 'hide', and if they fail to hide then it makes sense that the person reacts before they can get close enough to pull the knife on them.

Otherwise, it'll be -
Player: 'I try to stab the guy'
DM: 'The guy takes your dagger and stabs you, despite not even knowing you had that dagger in the first place'.

>>50195727
I'll say if you suddenly attack an NPC you get the surprise attack, but you don't gain advantage cause you are looking right at them.

>>50195808
Turns are an abstraction. He saw you moving to attack and he managed to move a little faster. It's really not that hard to understand.

>muh Sleight of Hand

You have to stop palming a dagger to stab someone with it.

>>50195742
Wrong how? You left that part out.

And if you object to any burden placed on STR martials because they're disadvantaged, the whole concept of ANY mechanic for sleeping in/out of armor would be a problem. I mean you could call it a bonus for sleeping out of armor, but it amounts to the same thing.

What I'm saying is that STR martials being in a bad way is a separate matter from whether or not and how to model the tradeoff between sleeping in or out of armor.

>>50195852
How does he move a little faster without making any passive perception or perception checks?

He only made an initiative roll. He will make that initiative roll, and then not even know why he made it because he's not aware of anything.

>>50195808
That's not unusual, that's what happens in every western and samurai movie ever.

>>50195870
His turn and your turn are happening during the same six-second period. He doesn't need to test his Perception because he's looking right the fuck at you. You might be able to conceal a weapon from him while talking with him, but you can't conceal the fact that you're pulling out that concealed weapon and attacking him!

I can't stand this kind of mindset in players - thinking that they get a free turn just because they happened to initiate hostilities. No, if the enemy is fully aware of you, sometimes they can see the shit you're trying to pull and act first. That is what an initiative check is for.

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>>50194481
>>50194487
"Armor Sleeping Rules" are boring and pedantic.
No one sits down at a gaming table and cares in the least about this shit, or your special table to determine the effects of not spending 1 hour per day sharpening their sword.

Concentrate on an entertaining narrative for a change, and stop stalling with errata, you tedious shitlords.

>>50195870
Muscle memory can be a powerful thing. Even if they're only somewhat aware of you, like in a crowd, someone who's trained enough in fight could be reacting from the stab before even they know what's wrong.

>>50195899
No, no.

This is a particularly special case, because it's not just initiating combat, but one person is making an almost entirely unseen attack while the other person has no idea they're about to make it.

He does not automatically notice the knife.
He does not automatically succeed stealth.

The knife is below is line of vision once you're in close enough in the example of 'walking by someone on the street and stabbing them'.

He could perhaps make an insight check opposed by deception to realise that this person is getting close to him for the sole purpose of stabbing him, but it'll probably be stealth versus passive (or possibly in this case, active) perception.

Dexterity (initiative) has absolutely no right to tell the NPC that a player is concealing something.

>>50195933
A video game where everyone is completely unburdened by heavy armor is not automatically a more entertaining narrative. Go back to WoW if you can't be bothered to make your character act like a real person.

>>50195947
Once he starts to make an attack with it, he's no longer concealing it. How is this so hard for you to understand?

>>50195955
It's not necessarily a more entertaining narrative but it's a more balanced mechanic and messing with it further favours casters and dex based classes

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Does anyone have that image of the "20 Questions" for your character? I'm trying to flesh out a brainy brawler type using the bloodhound bruiser subtype from that Pugilist PDF

>>50194830
Literally turn yourself into a cougar during sex.

Sleeping in armor is retarded. I ruled that yes, you indeed gain a level of fatigue for it unless it's light. Taking some time to remove it before sleeping and some time to don it after waking is not hard.

>>50195947
Sorry, 'automatically see through' or 'win against' stealth, not 'succeed stalth'.

>>50195939
In that sense, you can say the attack was the surprise round and the combat immediately starts, because they'll only notice once they've been stabbed. In that case, high initiative means that the person has reacted fast enough to being stabbed.
Low initiaive shows the person is clumsy or slow to react to being stabbed, and gives the surpriser a second turn if they rolled higher initiative.

>>50195895
Repeat after me.
Dungeons and dragons actually might be an anime.

>>50195969
So you're saying that if two people are hugging each other and one pulls a knife out behind their back, outside their field of vision and stabs the other person, that the other person could full well notice the knife with their eyes?

Are you an alien?

>>50195974
If balance is what you're worried about, you especially need to back to video games. Socially, you're not ready for prime time.

>>50195955
You know what the only effect of making heavy armor hard to sleep in is? Everyone in the party will make dex based characters and basically ignore it.

Nobody wants to be worried about taking off their armor every night, because a GM who does that is just going to ambush them in their sleep while they have no armor. Better to just wear leather so even if you're without you'll have decent AC from dex.

I guess that makes it a better narrative, if you want your party travelling in light gear for the long distances they'll be going, rather than full plate all the time. But again, all that means is that nobody will even use fullplate.

>>50196014
>>50195969
Sorry, to clarify more in-depth:

Person A and person B are hugging, no homo.Both have arms wrapped around each other.
Person A has a knife up their sleeve.
Person A moves the knife from their sleeve into their hand, ready to attack.
Person A stabs.

This is clearly a perception or insight against deception/sleight of hand/stealth related check, not a matter of who wins initiative.

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>>50196018
>If balance is what you're worried about, you especially need to back to video games.

>>50195869
>>50195982

again, this goes back to the whole "D&D players think wearing plate armor turns you into a literal turtle who cant stand up from being prone". You're talking out of your ass. I -have- slept in plate armor, and it's a lot cooler than sleeping outside in the summer anyway. But go ahead and add less realism to the game if it makes you happy

>>50196014
Someone could absolutely see and feel if someone who was hugging them was making the hand and arm motions to pull out a knife from up their sleeve and stab them with it. And if this is a face-to-face encounter that does not involve hugging, it would be even more impossible to hide. Test it yourself with a friend, if you have a friend.

>>50195955
>>50196024
Pretty much this.

Dexterity is already a god-stat, and even fighters and paladins and even fucking barbarians can use dexterity and still be viable.

If you give people even less reasons to use an already bad stat (strength) then you'll never see any strong characters unless people are willing to gimp themselves.

And even then, if they're trying to make a 'tough' character they'll end up being the least tough character whenever they're surprised in the night.

5e simply ignores heavy armour penalties while sleeping for simplicity, and not making rules for every single little thing.

>>50196018
Kek.
Sure am glad I'm the DM then, you can go play Wilderness Survival Simulator with someone who gives a shit

>>50196070
Why don't we ban all magic in favor of realism? Also, magic dicks over martials, and Telekinesis is an insult to STR-based characters.

>>50196073
Magicians are a thing in real life. They can hide things in all sorts of places and procure them from unexpected places, fooling people.
They could easily do it while hugging, the knife could well be up the back of the sleeve where there's no contact.

Now, transfer 'real life magician' to 'level 20 rogue with expertise in deception, sleight of hand and stealth plus a magical knife' and it is entirely possible.

This is why there is a stealth roll. The person being attacked has a chance to notice that they're about to get stabbed. It is neither gauranteed they'll notice it or gauranteed that they won't notice it.

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>>50196090
>getting this upset that the rest of the thread is opposed to a needless rule that does nothing but penalize STR characters

>>50196079
I think you would still see Strength based characters in the form of Barbarians, but that's due to the fact that they don't need armor at all.

It's still the sort of thing that's going to result in very samey characters because nobody wants to go through that hassle for 1 extra point of AC in the long run.

>>50196114
Oh, right. I forgot about that, barbarians will pretty much never wear heavy armour regardless so they don't care.

But, yes. At most, people might play heavy armour just so they can get their hands on every suit of magical heavy armour because nobody else wants it.

>>50196070
I think you think that I'm someone else in this conversation... I actually have none baggage that you're referring to. Hell, I've slept in plate armor, too.

Are you ready to explain what exactly it is that you're objecting to, or do you just want to say that I'm talking out of my ass again (despite not having said anything, only asked questions)?

>>50196109
This is never going to actually come up in a game either way, but I hope we can agree that outside of that one weird corner case, someone who is looking right at you would not have any chance of failing to notice you making a weapon attack.

Let's make a mock list of things that shit GMs do.

>Penalizing people for sleeping in armor.
>Banning all foci and making casters track spell components.
>Banning teleports, divinations and enchantments.
>Making people roll for everything
>Taking control of characters, telling what they think and do
>Trying to run "social intrigue" games without any idea how society actually works
>......

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>>50195982
>if you sleep in heavy armour too many times, you fucking die
R E A L I S M

>>50196070
Now try sleeping in chainmail. It's fucking horrible.

>>50195982
I can see your point, but it's too much. Maybe just not getting the benefits of rest is enough.

>>50196171
I'll agree that in most cases of 'Okay, I pull out my weapon and attack the unwitting NPC' would not result in a surprise round, especially because there's no stealth versus passive perception challenge in that.

The only exceptions I'd think of are like above, where an unseen weapon makes an unseen attack and there's likely a versus passive perception challenge somewhere.

>>50196140
>>50196114

This isn't pure speculation, you know. Other editions have had rules for armor beyond the stats you'd see in an MMO, and the things you're predicting didn't happen. PCs just didn't get ambushed that much while they were sleeping as opposed to actually adventuring in a dungeon, and when there was a risk player would set up watch schedules.

You'd probably think it was "unfair" and "unbalanced" to be attacked while you were sleeping anyway.

>>50196204
The cases where the person can be seen but not the weapon *as it's being used* are pretty much limited to hugging. Maybe, like, shooting a hand crossbow under a table.

>>50196214
Look, it's perfectly fine as a concept.

But it doesn't work in 5e. 5e was not really designed properly or made with it in mind.

Heavy armour gives +1 AC over half-plate, but comes with a plethora of negatives:

1. You must have 15 in strength (a rather bad stat) or be a dwarf or suffer a severe movement penalty, as opposed to having 14 in dexterity (a globally useful stat). This is the most important thing, that even if you dump dexterity, your initiative, stealth, dex saves and so forth will all be affected in a bad way. A character with 20 in dexterity also can wear light armour for only -1 AC.
2. You must have heavy armour proficiency, only given to a few classes.
3. You must not be using a feature that specifically prohibits the use of heavy armour (say, mariner fighting style or rage).
4. Heavy armour takes the longest time to put on. (Not normally a problem, until it comes to sleeping rules like this.)
5. Heavy armour imposes stealth disadvantage, on top of the fact your stealth probably already sucks. Unlike medium armour, there is no stealth-friendly variant.
6. Heavy armour costs the most.
7. Heavy armour weighs the most. The DM is more likely to rule that you more than anyone will fuck up things like jumping over a chasm or swimming, even if not explicitly stated in the rules.15 strength honestly is supposed to represent that you're so strong you can ignore the weight of the armour.
8. If hit by 'heat metal', good luck removing it.

>>50196258
Yeah. Though, you could also try something similar to a 'gun concealled under a cloak'. Or crossbow, if you can somehow operate it and puncture your cloak on firing.

There're limited cases, but honestly the DM is probably making up their own rules when you try that because they won't remember exactly what to do by heart.

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>>50196018
>4chan is the prime time of social interaction

>>50196214
This >>50196265

Whether or not you feel like things should be balanced doesn't matter. The point is that giving more penalties to heavy armor just makes it even less likely that anyone will ever bother to use it.

If that's your goal and you want the players to be more lightly armored, that's fine, but the realism aspect will never come up because nobody will bother actually wearing it.

>>50194146
Have a homebrew alchemist class that my gm just greenlit. Going to do a Jekyll/Hyde thing and it's going to be a goblin. Trying to think of interesting dynamics to do. Either a rational regular ego and then the alter ego being a cannibal or something.

Was also consodering doing something like Krieg from borderlands 2 with the main personality being insane and the alter ego being the rational, good person.

Any ideas?

>>50196333
I think 2 fits better for a gob. Your base personality is unhinged and destructive, your other personality is perfectly rational to the point of cold logic, as well as being a danger in combat.

>>50196333
I'd say >>50196345

Turn it on its head. The Dr. Jekyll personality is more typical goblin insanity, while the Mr. Hyde alter ego is proper, well-spoken, and thinks critically.

>>50194454
>people invoking the square-cube law continue to assume standard materials
Fun fact: modern skyscrapers don't violate the square-cube law, but if you tried to make them with the engineering knowledge and metals of the 15th Century they'd all collapse. D&D has fucking supermetals, who's to say dragonbone isn't some rad shit?

>>50196333
Maybe ask yourself why the goblin was experimenting with mood-altering meds in the first place. Dr. Jekyll didn't just want to create a fun contrast; he wanted to make people morally better with the power of medication. Of course, just like in the real world, as soon as the slightest thing goes wrong with somebody on meds they suffer horrific side effects and everything goes to crap. So start with a goal. Was your goblin trying to enhance himself in some respect? If so, how? Was he just testing something that he wanted to market to other people? If so, what was the sales pitch going to be?

>>50194539
Remember when 'dwarf' was a class option amongst some such as 'wizard' and 'thief'?

In one of my campaigns I'm making a new character at level 3 while the rest of the party are level 4's and 5's. I need some ideas for a new character.

I've been looking at the Psionic class in the UA's a bit, and they look fairly interesting. Anyone done any cool builds with them?

>>50196176
>if you fall asleep in heavy armour too many times, you fucking fall asleep

So, what's with pushing giants so hard from Wizards lately? I notice that their marketing is a lot more aggressive with the new 'season', pushing Giants as this big iconic thing. Are elementals and ravenloft not interesting enough for the plebs or something?

>>50195982
So is marching in armor. Did you know medieval armies basically did zero fighting and spent all their time walking around, building camp, or tearing down camp? They'd march in circles for three years, have one fight where they mostly yelled and threw shit at each other, ran away after a mere 1% of the soldiers died, then had at it for like 30 minutes on each of the next four days, then went back to meandering around the countryside in circles for another four years raping all the peasant women.

And in all of that time, the soldiers only wore their armor when it was time for fighty-shit, because it's heavy and no one really wants to wear it 24/7 if there's not going to be a fight.

But in D&D, wandering in circles for four years is boring, and adventurers are finding something to kill (or being found by something that wants to kill them) literally every day. The DM dreams of contriving some situation where he can get characters to remove their armor so they'll be defenseless to the midnight ambush.

Do you want to see how this shit works if you apply it to casters?

>>50196214
That's just the thing though. The only function of tracking whether characters take their armor off before resting is to determine what happens during an ambush.

If the party never gets ambushed, then any ruling is totally pointless. It doesn't add anything to the gameplay, and it doesn't add anything to the story. You might as well check to see if the characters are urinating regularly while you're at it.

>>50196484
>Spell component bags are fucking delicious to all manner of creatures, and the world is full of mischievous imps that like to steal words from spellbooks.

>Casters need to hide all of their components and spellbooks in a locked safe that is hoisted into a tree each night when they rest, so bears and worse don't get into it. It takes a full round action to untie the safe, and another full round action as well as a DC 15 Athletics check to lower it to the ground. You may let go of the rope or cut it (the rope has 10 HP, resistance to piercing and bludgeoning) to drop the safe immediately, but there is a 50% chance that it lands face-down and requires a DC 15 Athletics check to dig it out and flip it over. It then takes a full round action and a DC 10 Dexterity check (since you're in combat and worried) to input the combination, which opens the safe on the start of your next turn. If you are struck before the safe is open, you must succeed a DC 15 Constitution check to maintain your combination Concentration.

>>50196453
>sleeping in plate is like having Imprisonment: slumber cast on you

>>50196506
>The sheer depth of arcane knowledge held within spellbooks makes them cumbersome to use in combat. Each spell known of third circle and lower takes up a two-page spread, fourth and fifth circle spells take up four pages, and sixth level spells and higher take a number of pages equal to their circle level. The caster may only flip up to 10 pages in his spellbook as a free action each round; he may flip up to 30 pages at a time if he spends a bonus action to do so. Due to the imprecise nature of bulk-flipping, roll a d20; subtract a roll of 1-10 from his intended target page, or add 1-10 if he rolls an 11-20. For each 10 feet the caster moves in a round by his own locomotion (not flying or teleporting), he flips one page less.

>The caster must have access to all pages of a spell to complete casting it in a round. Keep track of the last spell the character cast, and note how far away in page-flips it is from the next spell they intend to cast. If a caster has organized his spellbook alphabetically, it is unlikely he'll be able to make it from Alarm on page 12 to Lightning Bolt on page 56 in a single round.

>Have your players maintain a physical copy of their character's spellbook to aid in tracking page-flipping. Keep it in sight so they don't cheat. If a character wishes to rescribe their spellbook to reorganize it, the player must physically rewrite each page that will change instead of merely swapping pages around. The magic that ties such arcane power to parchment is incompatible with advanced technology like three-ring binders.

What works with Lizardmen? It seems its only good for druids. Clerics don't really get anything from natural armour

>>50196345
>>50196359
I think you guys are right. I figured I could do chaotic neutral or good though because I can't stand evil characters in good campaigns. The alter ego could be rational but like lawful evil.

>>50196385
I'm going to do this. I haven't written the back story yet but I'm thinking that he's going to try to do a one man coup of his tribe and get horribly, savagely beaten and exiled; so he began experimenting to give him an intellectual and physical edge for when he comes back.

>>50196610
Lizardmen are the only viable class when you're playing with a DM who wants you to get naked to sleep because he gives you exhaustion levels for sleeping or walking in armor.

>>50196506
>>50196596
Finally, realistic rules for magic that accurately reflect the difficulty of casting magic in real life. I'm a member of several reenactment groups and have cast several spells before so I think I'm in good position to verify this.

>>50196506
>>50196596
How many pages can a spellbook have? How much does a spellbook weigh? Wizards should need high str to carry those books around. They also must be pretty big, so no holding more than one.

>>50196664
According to the PHB, spellbooks have 100 pages, which make them 1/3 the size of the PHB.

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>''while Sune loves all things of beauty, she saves her personal affection for her devout clerics for when they pass on into her domain''
>Sune clerics are just dudes who want some sweet goddess punani

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>>50196664
The technology of the day and the high-quality requirements of arcane spellbookery demands a weighty and sizable tome. Your average "budget" spellbook retails for 30g at character creation and comes with a standard cow-, horse-, or goat-leather cover, arcane animal glue, and a simple button-and-leatherstrap styled locking mechanism. It holds 100 pages of spell-quality cow vellum, weighs 10 pounds, and is the size of a royal quarto (10x12.5x2 inches).

It takes a bonus action to undo the button clasp. A DC 10 Acrobatics check is necessary to balance the open book in one hand while reaching for spell components or manipulating other objects with your free hand; on a failure, you either drop the book entirely or merely snap it shut. Strong winds can raise the DC of the check, as well as inadvertantly flip pages. Dim light makes it difficult to read, rendered as a five page penalty to flipping speed, and of course, a character cannot cast in darkness unless they have darkvision, since they cannot read their book.

A spellbook has HP based on its materials and quality. It can also be damaged with use, requiring regular replacement pages or rebinding. Roll a d20 at the end of each adventuring week where the book saw a good deal of use or travel; that much gold must be spent at a local bindery shop or wizard's tower to repair the spellbook to working order. Periods of heavy rain, fog, or moisture doubles this cost, as does travel at sea or in below-zero temperatures.
Spellbooks are vulnerable to slashing and fire damage.

>>50196792
And don't forget that you need special magical ink with crushed-up gemstones in it and a fatass fountain pen to do all your scribbling. Those are expensive and can be damaged or lost.

>>50196792
Why would you possibly care about the action economy of a spellbook to that fine of a degree when they can't be used for anything that takes less than 10 minutes?

>>50196646
>accurately reflect the difficulty of casting magic in real life

>>50196839
Roll an Insight check against DC 5 to see if you get the joke. Successfully getting the joke uses your reaction for the round.

>>50196880
Are you the judge guy for yesterday? please stop

>>50196880
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting
Jokes are supposed to be funny

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>>50194146
>Plan on getting the 5e books to play with my friend
>Friend only plays 3.5
>Say i'm getting 5e
>He says he's heard stories of it's mediocrity and how it's too limited to allow you to do what you want
>He than says 3.5 is made for creativity and that's why it's the most widely used edition to date
>MFW

I know jack shit about D&D, how true is what he was saying?

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>>50196839
All spellcasting requires a book now, friendo.

Ranger primers are crude affairs made of leather and cowskin vellum, but tend to be quite rugged and sturdy. Small, too, since Rangers don't get to cast shit.

Druidic treatises are occasionally bound in large chunks of bark or chitin, and may use magically-preserved leaves as pages instead of paper (expensive and damaging to trees!) or animal hide.

Bardic manuals are the closest you'll find to a traditional, if cheap, cloth-bound hardcover, but they are often bright reflections of the Bard's personality and covered in trinkets and doodads like feathers or coins.

Clerical folios are grand and impressive, festooned with gold filligree and illuminated manuscripts. Heavier, but beautiful.

Paladin tracts often come with metallic hardcovers of precious metals. They are utilitarian in design, but their verbiage is grandiose.

A Sorcerer's compendium usually bears some relation to his sorcerous origin; a dragon sorcerer may have a spellbook bound in dragonscale and leather.

The Wizard's omnibus is second only to the Cleric in grandeur, but more than makes up for that in size and detail. Paradoxically, the class with the least use for Strength carries around the most massive book.

Warlock codexes, like the Sorcerer, are often related to the source of their grim power. While they contain few spells, the arcane secrets whispered by their masters fill the remainder of the pages in a curious script only the Warlock can read.

>>50196916
If by "creativity" he means "too many options and most of them are either really OP or completely pointless" then yes, he's right.
If by "creativity" he means "enough options to fit any character concept with slight refluffing and a tiny bit of imagination," then he's got no fucking idea what he's talking about.

>>50196916
It's completely wrong. Not only is 5e more popular right now, but 3.5 was replaced almost entirely by Pathfinder, i.e. 3.5 but not nearly as broken.
Where's the creativity in needing to be either one of 3 pure caster classes to be good?

>>50196916
3.5 has the benefit of loads of splatbooks, but when half of your options are traps it doesn't really matter.

>>50196916
>>He says he's heard stories of it's mediocrity and how it's too limited to allow you to do what you want

Your friend is just stuck in the 3.5 era. It's only limited if you need 3000 splatbooks like 3.5 to feel 'free to choose'. One character will last you a long time so you have plenty to do as long as you aren't burning through characters every 3 months.

>>He than says 3.5 is made for creativity and that's why it's the most widely used edition to date

If by 'creativity' he means, "unbalanced as shit lol go fuck yourselves martials" then he's absolutely right.

>>50196916
3.5 is so good for "creativity" that everyone spends hundreds of dollars on books with additional source material that details, down to dick size, how many milliangstroms of force your half-kender, half-doppleganger, half-kobold bloodaxe thrower/champion of gwynharwyf/alienist can throw its +5 vorpal returning bouncing bleeding eldritch glaives.

No one using it has any creativity. That's why they're using 3.5. All the options are spelled out before them, pick and choose whatever is most optimal.

>>50194843
>Fire Genasi
>Noble Background (retainers alternate feature)
>Barbarian

>>50196935
>Sorcerer's magic comes from inside himself
>Still has to use a book
Just kill this meme class already.

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>>50196943
5e is good because you should only ever need one trap option.

>>50196964
Sounds like a completely reasonable servitor in the City of Brass. Try again.

>>50194843
A champion3/rogue17 guy with 3 strength and a heavy crossbow with GWM and sharpshooter.
He is cursed to never be able to use crossbow bolts.

>>50196935
>>50196975
Yeah, Sorcerer's still shouldn't have spellbooks under this system. It's basically their only defining attribute.

Instead, have them need to rest in their element to get spells back. If they're a red dragon sorcerer, they have to sleep in a bonfire all night. Green? Gotta bathe in poison.

Then, during a fight, they have to make constant Wisdom saves to resist their dragon soul overwhelming them and taking over. If it does, they'll immediately become overwhelmed with fury and greed as they're under the DMs control for the turn.

>>50197044
What about wild sorcerers?

>>50196983
>Pull something weird and unusual on your GM
>tfw 80% of PCs in my group tend to be El Generico Human Fighter/Paladin, Elf Wizard/Ranger, Dwarf Cleric, or Halfling Bard/Rogue
I'll try again when my fellow party members try harder.

>>50197060
They must spend time with at least three Chaotic Elven Rogue (N)PCs played with all the wit and class that a 15yo PenGuIN of DOOM!!! xD fan can manage.

>>50195687
And what about the arming coat underneath it, retard?

>>50194843
What makes something weird and uncommon? Having a weird background? Having a weird class/race combo? Having a background that doesn't really fit the class you are playing? All of the above?

>>50197087
>he doesn't wear BARE CHAIN like a real man
once you completely wax yourself it's not so bad

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>>50194665
It's just a resource based ability class. They have a bunch of special abilities that they use by paying power points which the player keeps track of. It's like a more supernatural focused monk.
If the DM can handle having a Battlemaster, Sorcerer, Cleric and Warlock all in the same party they can handle a Mystic.

The most difficult thing for the DM is just making sure the Mystic player reminds them which Disciple they are currently focused on if they have stuff like Celerity or that Third Eye one. Even then it's not so much a problem as long as the player isn't a petty dick.

>>50197086
So at the end of the day, this all serves as a buff to Wild Sorcerers at the expense of every other caster. You don't need a bullshit book, you don't need to fend off insanity, and you get three followers.

>>50195597
Why would you care about having an FLGS if you can just buy shit online?

>>50197106
>you don't need to fend off insanity and you get three followers
I'm not sure you understand what lel so randum 15yos playing CN Elven Rogues means.

>>50196188
Well, we know that chainmail is worse than plate in every possible way but D&D fucks that up.

>>50197116
It means you simply have to know how to manipulate them, which with a sorcerer's high CHA is easy. Tell them the bad guy is hiding gold mushrooms up his butt or something.

>>50197076
Sorry, I was being facetious. It's fun to justify that character, but he/she really would stand out and be interesting.

>>50197121
>Every possible way
It's like you don't even know things about stuff.

>>50194665
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Oneshots are the best time to test variant rules or classes, because if things don't work out well the consequences aren't as big. If the DM can't handle a new class he doesn't have to worry about disrupting the campaign by asking a player to retire the character and regen.

>>50197110
Because a thriving local base is more important to me than stuff I can acquire myself.

>>50197251
Wish I had something like that anywhere near me...

Daily reminder that strength and constitution should be consolidated into one stat

>>50197299
I forget the system but one method i saw used (not in D&D) was 6 stats that were strength and flexibility in mind, body and spirit.

>>50197299
As a guy with like 4 debilitating illnesses who can still lift above average, 12 STR, 4 CON is completely reasonable.

What would be some ways of making Strength more appealing as a stat to invest in? Does using the Encumberance variant rules so that you need decent strength to actually carry gear help?

Also, generally useless but silly interaction:

You can use Remove Curse to totally nerf lycanthropes and other creatures that get their power through curses. The spell does not say it must be a willing creature, and it has no save. you can just touch them and then boop, they aren't a wereX anymore.

>>50197414
Encumbrance isn't extreme enough, but it's a start.

>>50197389
And I'm sure there are plenty of Olympic sharpshooters that aren't particularly good at cartwheels or sleights of hand.

>>50197423
Unless they're natural werewolves.

>>50197044
>Sorcerer's still shouldn't have spellbooks under this system

I still think a sorcerer shouldn't need material components or a casting focus at all. I mean, the budding mage should be Nigel the Swot apprenticing at the local mage, reading through pages upon pages of arcane theory just to cast Light, whereas the sorcerer would be Rihanna-Cassandra who goes to the village school and writes "We went to the Pool of Blackness for summer holidayes and I suddenly threw a bolt of fire at this goblyn that was mouthing off to our Matilda and a local man told Pa it means I'm a sossrer" for the "what I did on my summer holidays" bit.

>>50197448
That's not an apt comparison and you know it.

>>50197493
I don't know it.
Please explain how dexterity in its current form makes any sense.

>>50197414
The str+con suggestion above sounds pretty good. I'd also probably roll wis+int as well.

Have they released any more info on psionics yet? Know when/if they are going to any time soon?

>>50197641
I believe Mystic is getting expanded to the full 20 levels, likely in preparation for a PHB2.

>>50197414
Add altheticism into your games with jumping, climbing, sprinting etc.

Use encumbrance. It's only a pain when making your character. Afterwards, its easy to manage.

Yo, /tg/, I need a name for a local boogyman type legend. In reality it's an oni that used to steal children and died about a hundred years ago. Blue skin with silver hair. He's been resurrected by a hag who found his bones and branded them so that it obeys her and is back to his kidnapping ways.

What did the folks of old call this urban legend?

>>50197716
Or Dark Sun (Cross fingers)

>>50197739
Randy

>>50197739
Oh, and his MO was stealing naughty children by coming to their houses at night and playing with them. Then eventually he'd lead them to his shack and hidden basement where he'd make them stand in corners while being creepy and shit.

The children don't remember that part. Eventually he kills them or whatever.

>>50197740
I feel like they'd release a more popular setting before Dark Sun, but I could be wrong.

Desperately hoping for Eberron, and with it a proper Artificer class.

what does bounded accuracy means ?

>>50197819
It means that the game's math is "bound" to the possible results of the resolution die (the d20) instead of getting modifiers that push results far past it.

Are class levels supernatural?

The threshold for being considered a first level character seems to be roughly peak human competency, and PCs have the ability to become individually more powerful than things like demons and Dragons.

It'll be my first time playing a druid on Monday, are there any must have spells or cantrips to pick up?

>>50197838

Maybe at the very highest levels, but PCs are already exceptional individuals with a lot of potential. Mordekainen isn't a supernatural being, for example, but he IS an incredibly powerful mortal like PCs.

>>50197838
Class levels aren't a real thing in-universe, they're just a way of showing the various specializations of adventurers. And yes, adventurers can surpass some demons and dragons.

>>50197852
Some offensive cantrip with more range than Thorn Whip. Frostbite or maybe Produce Flame.

Also Healing Word. No, Cure Wounds is not a substitute. Save it for after someone drops to 0 HP and you need to save them from dying. The range and the casting time of 1 bonus action means you'll actually be able to reach your friend in need, and you can even attack or cast a cantrip in the same turn.

>>50195588
If they're in on it, they aren't surprised. If they didn't know he was about to do that, then they are also surprised

>>50197093
Something weird and unorthodox - say, a Great Weapon, high strength assassin or something.

>>50197930
You also have to consider that they might know that it's going to happen but not know exactly when. It's not like they're setting up an ambush together and they all attack at once when a secret sign is given. If they don't know the exact moment to strike, only whoever strikes first will have the benefit of surprise.

For twin spell, does a spell that can target extra things only if cast at a higher level spell slot exclude it from being twinned even if you cast it at the base level where it might only be able to target one thing?
Examples: Invisibility, Fly, Enhance Ability

>>50197991
I would rule that it can target two things if you're using it at that lower level.

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>find an orb that lets me cast true polymorph once
>I'm the only caster
>remember the time he cut off my arm
>use it to turn the half Orc into a gnome
>we are months away from any town
>irl 3-4 weeks in campaign

>>50197991
Apply metamagic as appropriate to the level at which a spell is cast.

>>50197991
Yes.

Also, spells that might target multiple creatures when you cast them but that COULD target only one (like Magic Missile and Scorching Rays) can't be used with Twinned Spell.

>>50197991
Yes. This is covered by the PHB errata.

>To be eligible for Twinned Spell, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level.
So Hold Person at 2nd level is twinnable.

Hold Person at 3rd level is not.

>>50198011
I would too, but I can't find any definitive rulings by the devs on this.
Closest thing is Crawford saying "Twinned Spell is intended to work with a spell that can normally target only one creature", but that depends entirely on whether the word "normally" includes or excludes the possibility of being cast using a higher level spell slot.

>>50198018
Is there a definitive ruling on this somewhere? I think that's reasonable, though I'd prefer that in stone somewhere.

>>50198027
>>50198030
You two conflict with the above two. I can see someone ruling this way, but it's still ambiguous given what Crawford says about "normally" I think.

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>>50198013
Ya blew it.

>>50197836
I am really on the fence on whether I like this or not.

On one hand, it means you have trouble being a true specialist, outside of a few specific classes. It mostly just comes down to "I have the skill" and "the governing attribute is 18 or higher". And having the skill is a level 1 choice, given freely at the start.

On the other hand, and from a GMs perspective, it makes it a lot easier to figure out appropriate difficulty levels. Something almost impossible gets a difficulty 30, because hitting 30 is almost impossible outside of high levels and uncommon modifiers. Something really hard is just 25, because it will almost always be possible, but even the best of the average PCs (say, a pure fighter) can't have more than +6/7 at lower levels, so it is still possible but ridiculously hard. It is also impossible for anyone just not meant to do it, aka unskilled or lacking the appropriate attribute.

The main issue I have, is actually the fact that when someone does break it, they break it HARD. A Rogue getting +12+5 at their Base stealth check, guaranteed advantage, and then the inability to roll below 10 just to make sure you can't roll below 27, which means most things won't ever notice you, because they simply don't have this kind of bonuses. Even the biggest and baddest dudes won't have more than maybe +13, which requires 14+ to spot them, and the regular mooks with 7 perception will never be able to find you, and that assumes they are looking, because nothing will ever spot you with their passive perception.

Same with AC, where stacking AC can make a character virtually impossible to hit, and trying to scale up the hit modifier will severely punish the lower AC characters for no good reason.

I just can't decide whether I think the benefits outweighs the negative points. 5e feels like the easiest to pick up and use than any other dnd game, so it is still my favourite edition by far.

>>50197445
>>50197729

not him but do most people not use encumbrance? my dm has always insisted on it and it can be quite obnoxious to work around, forcing a different dump instead of str on basically everyone who isnt a wizard.

>>50198069
Out of genuine curiosity, what about posting this is funny to you?

>>50198119
I think the big thing is that while you can kinda get ridiculous if you dump all of your points into one skill or attribute, there's still things that can be done about it.

Having a bunch of skill points and really high DCs just means that you're forced to be a specialist, rather than allowing more possibility for people to dip into skills and still have a good chance at them.

A High level rogue should be quite difficult to detect like that, and mundane stealth can still be ruined in other ways such as with special senses or not having anywhere good to hide.

High AC makes it tough to get hit, but they're still vulnerable to saving throws, and at a certain point monsters will just start to ignore you and go after other party members.

It is overall a benefit, though it does work better when people try and spread out their skills and not specialize too hard.

>>50198119

Generally I feel that the benefits outweigh the bad stuff. Rogues are supposed to be super good at some skills that's the point of that ability. And AC stacking, while a problem, takes a lot of coordination, luck, or generosity to get to truly spectacular levels.

>>50198152
everything

>>50198174
i find AC stacking to be the most problematic. most DMs do either one of two things immediately and they both suck.

a) every monster magically gets +10 to hit so they can land blows on the tank
b) every monster magically knows the tank cant be hit and never bothers attacking them once

it ends up really sucking for everyone with a normal looking AC value.

>>50197930
That's very much like saying, however, 'you can surprise someone who doesn't expect any combat at all by drawing a weapon really fast and stabbing them'.

To really qualify to not be surprised I'd say they'd all have to be making some sort of check against passive perception in order to conceal the fact they're all waiting for the pinpoint moment a dart shoots out and hits the NPC, with their weapons ready to flash out in an instant.

Otherwise, it's not really fair. Normally an entire group would have to make a stealth check to get surprise.

>>50198206
>see big burly fully armored man
>see punny skinny robe-wearing fuccboy
Hmm I wonder who I will attack

>>50198234
Probably the threat.

I'm building myself a new monk, and I'm wondering, is there any reason why I wouldn't want to use a greatclub as my starting weapon? Far as I can tell it's a monk weapon, so I can use dex on my rolls with it, and deals d8 compared to all my other options which are d6 or lower.

>>50198190
Can't say I'm surprised. Anyway, just, like, An Hero or something.

>>50198249
wew

>>50198206
I'm finding this problem out first hand after one of my players complained about always getting hit so I gave her magic armor. The reason she was getting hit was because she would wade into the fight as a caster/martial multi class. The build sucks but now she has really high AC and its starting to be a problem.

>>50198255
Just saying, m8. You want half-assed shitposting, you got it.

>>50198234
it makes sense for ranged monsters, but watching a pack of orcs stream past the tank and only the first one gets caught by sentinel is kind of silly/frustrating

>>50198246
First, greatclub isn't a Monk weapon. Read over the restrictions again, no two-handers.

Second, a quarterstaff qualifies and does the same thing, since it's versatile.

>>50198269
How will I ever recover?

>>50198246
Monk weapons are "shortswords, and any simple melee weapon without the two-handed or heavy property".

Greatclubs are two-handed.

>>50198279
>>50198283
Oh, guess I'm retarded. Thanks guys, I'll look it over again.

>>50198206

I think it's also the biggest weakness of the system but unless people really dedicate themselves to hitting that point, it doesn't really happen in my experience. The highest per-round AC someone can get sans magic items is 27, 32 if they cast shield. Which is indeed INCREDIBLY high, but takes at least 2 people coordinating together, focusing your character purely for that, and since that particular build uses blade singer only 2x per short rest. It also can't kick into play until fairly high levels.


>>50198246

Quarterstaffs deal d8s when wielded with two hands and don't REQUIRE two hands to wield them so they're better overall. And a greatclub isn't a monk weapon.

>>50198119
You can look at it like this:

A on-the-spot, 'FUCK I NEED TO DO SOMETHING QUICK' skillcheck could be a single roll of the dice.

A more focused, professional skill check would be making a sword or doing something over a period of time. If you make multiple rolls with a strict threshhold, the person with the modifier is much more likely to succeed than the person without.

Say, you must make 3 dex(pick lock) checks.
Guy A has +5.
Guy B has +0.

The DC is 7, but you must succeed all the rolls in succession.

Guy A has a 1/20 chance of failure each time, or a (19/20)^3 chance of success overall. If he had +6 on his skill, he would be gauranteed to succeed.
Guy B has a 6/20 chance of failure each time, or a (14/20)^3 chance of success overall. It is vastly less.

5% failure chance versus 30% failure chance turns into 14.3% versus 65.7%.

Making a sword may have many extra skillchecks, whereas quickly checking over a wall would have just one.

>>50198148
It's a variant off of standard. It was obnoxious when we first switched but it does add some mental investment that is kind of needed in the game. Otherwise its like a game of skyrim where the PCs take EVERYTHING.

>>50198272
Yes, but it's the sort of scenario that's entirely the player's fault. They become an immortal juggernaut encased in two tons of metal, and then get annoyed when nobody wants to try and hack their way through them first.

The key to actually defending your party isn't to just be unhittable. You need ways to actually discourage enemies from going after your allies and encourage them to attack you instead. Pumping your AC does the exact opposite.

Defense Fighting style and a Shield makes you easy to ignore.

>>50198245
Which would be the fuccboy dropping fireballs on me. Tanks should just be ignored unless they force disadvantage, wrestle the fucking monsters to the ground, or stop them with sentinel or such. Assuming otherwise is dumbing down every threat.

>>50198272
Why would it be silly? Go for the weakest first, them swamp whoever is left. It's only frustrating if you don't put the effort to stop the threat.

>>50198325
When he drops fireballs on you yeah.

>>50198320
yeah at this point i can't imagine playing without it, and sort of assumed everyone else did too.

>>50198206
Was in a group once where we had a few encounters where we just buffed up the paladin, threw him into a room with a few dangerous enemies, blocked the entrance, and let him fuck everything. He had, fully buffed with all the magical shit we had, 29 AC. This was at level 9 - nothing could hit him, and the few things that did, didn't do nearly enough damage to threaten him. Meanwhile, we were sitting outside, safe behind a barricaded door, laughing as the paladin went on a solo rampage.

The GM was actually pretty reasonable in just hard capping AC at 25. Still ridiculously hard to hit, but within reason - he could be hit and brought down, but it took serious effort, as it should, but it never got to those "I can solo a CR10 encounter without spending any important resources.

Post your funniest or cringest erp dnd session stories.

>>50198234
>big, beefy barbarian wearing nothing but carrying a massive fucking axe
>book nerd who doesn't look like he can do anything, but he's hiding behind a bunch of allies

Geh, I dunno Grugg. Mabs we shud bash nak'd hooman?

>>50198330
A lot of monsters are probably aware of the concept of casters. An orc raiding party should have enough of a basic idea that sending one guy to kill the one in the bathrobe in case he's a shaman is a basic idea.

From there, a few of the orcs might take one swing at the fighter, then decide to ignore him because he's blocking everything they throw at him.

Then one Orc gets stuck behind thanks to sentinel while the others go beat up the mage, and that last Orc just takes the Dodge action until the Fighter gets tired of 'tanking' only one enemy.

>>50198333
Haste, shield of faith... what else?
Assuming he went defense fighting style, he's got 21 AC with a shield and full plate, so haste + SoF would put him at 25

>>50198325
i get that but as >>50198330 said, im more expecting something along the lines of MMO agro where characters who have not yet taken an offensive action don't get targeted immediately. as you said in your other post, you'd attack the threat, which in the first round is just the fighter running up in your face screaming battle cries.

>>50198357
They're also aware of the concept of scholars and merchants who often may look like some casters yet pose no real threat, and who are simultaneously exponentially more common than dangerous spellcasters~

>>50198372
And? It's an entire party of Orcs. If it is just a random scholar or merchant, it's going to take less time to go murder them compared to all piling up on the statue.

Maybe the Wizard should just cast an Illusion of a heavily defensive Fighter in front of the party, since that will have the same effect of all the enemies running up and brainlessly trying to hit it even if it's clear they can't

>>50198333
The DM was being an idiot, then.

While the paladin has great save throws and AC, the monsters can just surround him, grapple him, shove him to the floor and fuck him over.
No matter how high an AC he has, he now has disadvantage to hit and the enemies have AT LEAST a 39/400 chance of critting the guy.

Imagine what'd happen if the party couldn't see what was going on while the paladin was being forced to make the saving throws they were worst at in there.
Even worse if they fail a saving throw that then gives them 'you automatically fail dex saving throws' or the like.

Otherwise, smart monsters should come up with a plan themselves to fuck over the party and the stupid monsters can just go to hell for all I care, they don't deserve to be high levels.

>>50198358
Magic items. To be specific, a plate armour +2, a cape granting +1, and an amulet granting +1.

Cape and amulet were intended for the rogue and wizard respectively, but at the time, it made more sense to make the paladin unkillable and let him solo everything.

>>50198396
Surround the fighter and send a few to murder/capture the merchants.
That's fine. If you magically decide they're all going to stream past the *armed soldiers* to fight what often look like random nobodies before they ever cast a spell en masse you're just a fucking faggot though.

>>50198350
>>50198370
In the first round they can entertain themselves with the frontline, but when the backline starts raining hellfire on them they should change their approach unless the fronline has something to keep them in place. You try to use dumb mooks as example, but that's something so simple even animals can do.

>>50198417
ite

>>50198427
Or, brilliant idea, you could not min-max AC on your frontliner so that you actually get hit, meaning the Orcs will be more likely to actually stay and fight you instead of noticing that your entire fighting style is centered around being unkillable and letting those guys behind you kill people instead.

If it's a pack of wolves, they probably are going to go after the squishy sources of food. Doubly so after they break their teeth trying to open up the tin can.

The DM is not obligated to make your retarded 'tank build' work by making the enemies equally retarded to fall for it over and over.

>>50198398
>No matter how high an AC he has, he now has disadvantage to hit and the enemies have AT LEAST a 39/400 chance of critting the guy
If you only hit on a 20, you don't crit, period.

And the enemies in question just couldn't make him fail his saves quick enough. He took out the first guy in 2 rounds, and then started whittling them down sure but steady - mage hand from the Arcane trickster made the disadvantage a moot point.

>>50198457
The game uses bounded accuracy you retarded "D&D is player vs DM" mong.

>>50198433
im completely fine with monsters reacting to things that happen to them, that was never my point. whats more unfortunate is when the DM forgets that every new monster shouldn't know the party's stat blocks (we don't know the stat blocks for the npcs we fight) and you lose even that first round of the front line being effective. most encounters are pretty much decided in the first 3 rounds anyway, in my experience.

its a narrow path to walk for the GM, admittedly.

>>50198470
And actively going out of your way to try and break bounded accuracy doesn't give you the right to whine when the enemies actually use tactics instead of shooting at superman.

>>50198487
>break bounded accuracy
WHY DO RETARDS LIKE YOU PLAY THIS GAME?
HOW CAN ANYONE HAVE *SUCH POOR* MECHANICAL GRASP?
HOW?

>>50198500
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

You too

>>50198487
tactics are fine, but i want you to admit there is a difference between simulating a wolf pack hunting intelligently, and metagaming to always attack targets with numerical advantage (using information the monsters shouldn't have/be able to guess)

>>50198487
This is not a game you faggot.

We are trying to roleplay and have a story here. If all enemies straight up ignore the armoured dude with a large sword running at you, in order to go for the guys behind him, who could just as well be unarmed and normal acolytes or merchants, you are being a gigantic faggot. It is fine for enemies who know the party, or after the first round of combat, but every random encounter shouldn't have the backline be the primary target while the front line is never even touched.

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>>50198511

>>50198370
>>50198479

That's perfectly fine, but even in MMOs the tank has to use skills to keep the aggro, or else the monster will just turn to whoever is dealing most damage to it, which would be the poor casters.

>>50198539
Then make the frontline have less than an impossible AC value so it doesn't seem impossible to hit to the enemies.

If your party walks into a dungeon, and the lead orc has 30 AC, do you expect the DM to describe him as an Orc in fullplate with a shield, or as some sort of indestructable looking juggernaut of war?

You don't get AC that high and get to complain that you look too formidable.

>>50198457
Well fluffwise he is probably getting hit, its just the attacks are bouncing off his armor.
If the orcs leave the fighter after failing 1 attack, then they should stop attacking any party member they don't 1 shot.

>>50197483
Welp, there's my new quest idea

>>50198396
>>50198396
>>50198357
I made a barbarian dressed in wizard robes once ala muscle wizard that couldn't actually cast spells, but pretended to.

Are you telling me that all enemies should automatically attack the barbarian dressed as a wizard?

>>50198433
A dumb animal would run. Because normally, that's the sane thing to do. A lot of monsters don't even run.

>>50198464
>if you only hit on a 20, you don't crit
I've never read this in RAW. Where does it say that?
Instead, I thought it was simply 'If you roll a 20, you hit, regardless of whether you would otherwise hit or not. You also crit'.

The enemies also have every right to attempt to disarm the paladin. The DMG suggests disarm rules, but honestly however it works I'm sure four or so monsters could easily keep a paladin from moving, or at the very least take away his sword.

>>50198606
>I've never read this in RAW
Because it's fucking wrong and that guy is a retard.

>>50197968
Yeah, I'll concede that, you don't actually KNOW when it'll happen, only that it will. Eventu-OH SHIT

>>50198606
I'm saying that monsters should probably assume the guy with robes, a magic wand, a holy symbol, or a staff is probably some kind of mage.

If your Barbarian just started hitting them with the quartestaff, that's one thing, but at the same time, they can actually hit the Barbarian. Some might break off when the real wizard starts blasting, but they're not going to all go for one target, and they're not all going to stand around and keep trying to hit someone they need a crit to actually strike.

>>50198639
Or - far more likely - a merchant, scholar, or acolyte.
Just maaaaaybe.

>>50198639
The problem then is that parties will go around with some weird order.

The clerics will be standing around in full armour, the dwarf/multiclassed 1 into fighter wizard will be there in full armour, and then the barbarian and monk will be at the front wearing robes and holding quarterstaves.

This will become normal.

>>50198661
NO!
Also, anytime a monster sees someone holding nothing, they refuse to fight them as they are obviously a monk with high AC

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>>50198679

>>50198281
Suck a catgirl boipucci

>>50198671
>>50198639
You know what, not even that.

The wizard can just disguise self themselves into heavy armour.

I think >>50198661 is the real point here, though. Not every unarmed person is a wizard unless you're in a world were adventurers are everywhere.
When you suddenly attack a group of enemies, the enemies only have a few seconds to think and they often have poor organisation unless they have a leader directing them to where they should go.

If the group has a smart leader, it's perfectly understandable he could analyze the situation, relay to the orcs 'Okay, that guy at the back is the guy you need to kill first!' and then the orcs can aggressive run fuck the wizard in the butt.

>>50198639
when you start making assumptions like this you just open yourself up to shit like >>50198671 posted. and if your logic isn't completely consistent your players are going to get annoyed. the most important thing to remember is that every new pack of monsters does *not* have all of the DMs experience, as much as that would be convenient for you.

>>50198606
>I've never read this in RAW. Where does it say that?
>>50198621
Common fucking sense.

A guy with -20 to hit don't crit every fucking time he hits. Stop being retarded.

>>50198720
Well, it's a good thing I'd only do this if a player has the bright idea to just crank up AC as high as possible and ignore anything else.

Either that, or I'll just throw and endless supply of low level goblins that can't even hit the guy until they realize how dumb it is.

>>50198749
>>50198464
Your idiotic houserule has no place in discussions of the rules.

>>50198749
dank homebrew

>>50198752
your game your rules, if you keep it consistent im sure it will be fine. better to punish people with metagaming orcs than arbitrarily inflated hit values, either way.

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>>50198749
If it was intended, they would not have said 'if you get a 20, you always hit, and you crit'.

They might have written it more like 'If you get a 20, you crit. If you miss, you instead hit, but don't crit.'

20s always hitting and critting helps prevent bounded accuracy problems with super AC enemies.
If you don't like it, get adamantine armour or find a way to give enemies disadvantage against you - they'll have only a 1/400 chance of getting a 20.

>>50198787
>better to punish people with metagaming orcs
Better to not be an idiotic DM in the first place.
Dear GOD I hate bad DMs who think NPCs are their fucking characters.

>>50198787
Yeah. It's my job as DM to make sure the players are challenged, and I'd rather do that by throwing more clever enemies at them rather than simply invalidate their bonus entirely.

If someone did this in my game, they'd probably also be finding themselves against more intelligent enemies like dragons or mindflayers that won't slimply stand there and swing at them.

>>50198320
>he doesn't have a party wagon

>>50198787
If you're going to make orcs metagame, at least give an in-game reason.

As said above, use a leader. The leader might be wise and smart and work co-ordinate all the orcs to attack the right target.

This also gives the players an alternative objective - it'll fuck up the orc's co-ordination if they kill the leader.

Alternatively you can play DnD like it's 4e.

>>50198819
>I don't know what casters are
>I don't know how the environment works
>I don't know how to do anything but auto-attack with my enemies
>best to just metagame my auto-attackers - that's the perfect solution
I'm so glad I can smell you people from a mile away in real life.

>>50198811
i mean i can get where hes coming from. breaking bounded AC means you have to 'fix' combat somehow, and that can feel like a punishment to the player who can't be hit. but he can't be hit, so all combat being focused on hitting him is stupid. there isn't a great answer here, and its one of the flaws of the system. which is how this all started (see >>50197819 entire reply chain)

>>50198841
>I can't read

I'm glad I can spot people like you instantly online.

>>50198829
>party wagon
>when you could have a party boat

>>50198856
>getting on a boat
Ha ha, fuck that. I wear plate mail, I'm not going anywhere near the water.

>>50198870
The boat doesn't need to be near water anon

>>50198851
You can't break bounded AC in 5e.

>>50198788
>the worse you are at hitting, the greater chance you have of doing high damage when you do crit
L O G I C
O
G
I
C

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>>50198870
Don't worry lad its perfectly safe to be on the water in plate mail

>>50198879
(you)

>>50198886
No, you have the same chance of crit regardless. It's luck, not skill.

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>>50198886
nice homebrew bruh
you should publish it
make dosh

>>50198895
You can try to instantiate a breaking of bounded AC for us m8. Go ahead~

>>50198908
(you)

>>50198908
ok how about >>50198333 this dude's party. it doesn't take a lot to 'break' the system, because its broken as soon as one party member out-classes the others so badly that they can't fight the same CR monsters any more.

>>50198913
>>50198879

>>50198886
It makes way more sense than the advantage - disadvantage rule.

>halfling with longbow attacking at maximum range while lying down while also restrained while also grappled without sharpshooter into darkness, the target is dodging and also has blur and also has foresight. However, since there was a familiar next to the target who used 'help', the halfling no longer has any disadvantage at all.

>>50194945
I beg to differ, winter backpacking trips are equally if not more fun than summer trips

>>50198931
They used two concentration spells to boost his AC
Break their concentration - problem solved.

>>50198937
Literally your fault for not banning find familiar

>>50198961
(you)

i was going to write a real response but at this point its pretty clear you dont play the game.

>>50198898
That's not how math works.

If I have a 1/2 chance to hit, of those hits, I crit 1/10 of the time.

If I go by the normal rules, a 1/20 chance to hit will give my hits a 100% chance to crit.

I always house rule stupid shit that makes no sense in any kind of context.
>>50198807
>20s always hitting and critting helps prevent bounded accuracy problems with super AC enemies.
No it doesn't, auto hitting helps bounded accuracy. Auto-critting all the time has no effect on bounded accuracy, it only affects the damage dealt, which is something you can't manipulate to the same degree that you can with AC.

>>50195405
This isn't how surprise works.
Surprise happens if your group becomes aware of the other group's presence before they become aware of yours. Normal combat assumes a brief moment where both groups go 'oh fuck' because neither were expecting a fight at that exact moment or at least didn't know when one would break out.
If your rogue sneaks off by himself and spots a group of enemies, then they return to the less stealth-able party to inform them of those enemies, your group will be able to take them by surprise, because yours will already be locked and loaded when the engagement starts.

>>50198961
Oh, you mean like having the enemies recognize that there's spellcasters boosting this guy's armor, and running past him to deal with that?

>>50198972
Your chance to crit is not affected by how much of a chance you have to hit. It's only based on the base d20 roll, not on any modifiers.

If you have a 50% chance to hit, you have a 5% chance to crit.

If you have a 10% chance to hit, you still have a 5% chance to crit.

>>50198970
Yeah, the guy who has thousands of hours of playing hasn't played the game.
Jesus Christ you people don't know shit about game mechanics.

>>50198987
If they cast spells, no shit? The whole (rightful) bitching at you has been you want your NPCs to ignore everything and bum-rush nonthreatening people before they do jack shit.

>>50198994

Champions and advantage/disadvantage being the two exceptions to that rule.

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>>50198279
>>50198296
>>50198246
This reminded me, the time I played a monk my DM ruled I couldn't use stuff like flurry of blows if I used my staff with both hands.
A staff isn't technically two handed, but versatile, are there any official clarifications of this?
In your opinion would it be "fair" to let them use the martial arts features while two handing staves?

>>50198961
They were hiding behind a barricaded door. Trying to break it means hoping the paladin doesn't slaughter your friends and you while trying to get past the door.

>>50198996
Only when the frontliner's AC is so high that it should be visibly obvious to everyone that he's going to be impossible to hit.

Which, in the case of spellcasters loading him up with spells and him wearing a bunch of the best armor ever, it would be. If they wait until the middle of the fight to do that? Then yeah, they'll hit him while they can actually hit him.

>>50199012
You're supposed to be able to make unarmed strikes while wielding a weapon in both hands.

>>50199016
So the players managed to put themselves in an advantageous strategical position. They deserve the benefits of having managed that.

>>50199012
Of course it is. There's no action associated with taking your hand off of a weapon, especially not a versatile one. Plus unarmed strikes for monks can be stuff like kicks anyway.

Just whirl someone with your staff a bit, plant it on the ground, then bicycle kick them in the face. And that's if your hands are glued to it for some reason.

>>50199012
Unarmed strikes include elbow shots, kicks, headbutts, and so on. You can grapple two enemies with your hands and still be beating the shit out of them as a monk or tavern brawler.

>>50198972
Autocritting helps bounded accuracy in that it increases the base level of damage you can potentially do.

Rather than only being able to do 1/20 times your damage against a target with 100 AC, you do somewhere above 1/20 (essentially 2/20 times damage if you have no damage modifier)

They could have said 'you automatically hit on a 19 and 20, but you don't crit on a 20 if you would otherwise have missed if not for the previous rule, but you do crit on a 20 otherwise' but that's way too much of a mouthful for 5e, not that there aren't worse rules.

If 19 and 20 both autohit, it'd also make targets more vulnerable to effects such as a net which targets AC, but doesn't damage but instead applies an effect.

It's hard to justify, but it's much harder to justify why AC has absolutely no effect on a spell such as 'fireball'.

>>50198994
>reading comprehension level 0
Of your HITS.

Why are you on an English message board?

>>50199012

You can kick shit, and the rules are clear that you must wield the weapon in both hands WHEN ATTACKING. Nothing stops you from just punching them with your off hand when it comes time to flurry of blows.

>>50199023
The man in full plate with a shield isn't impossible to hit, he's difficult to damage. Enemies are landing hits on them all the time, they're just failing to do anything meaningful to the guy underneath. In fact, they're probably making physical contact with him far more often than they are the backflipping rogue in pajamas. As well, Fighters, Paladins, and Barbarians also put out enough damage on their own to make them targets of interest. And why rush straight for the mage? He's just going to teleport away every time you take a swing at him, and now you're just chasing this bathrobed geek around the room while three beefcakes take opportunity attacks against you all day.

The only preferential target is a Ranger, because they suck. Easy enough to hit, nice enough damage output with Archery style and Sharpshooter, but no real means of not dying. good thing they can be shooting from like 200 feet away

File: hp.png (130KB, 299x194px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 299x194px

>>50199023
The fluff between being hit, dealing damage, and taking damage isn't entirely AC based.
If an enemy has 300 HP and you deal 6 damage to it, that can be fluffed, rightly, as "your attack seems to be very ineffectual, only appearing to scratch at the dragon's scales". There's still a mechanical HP loss despite the real observable fluff not necessarily indicating really anything at all.

>>50199080
>>50199082
Good point. In that case, I might houserule some of those AC boosting spells to give Temp HP instead. Helps prevent this nonsense from cropping up in the first place.

>>50199023
The greatest value of a tank is their ability to actually, you know, tank. They're not generally going to have the highest damage output or (fuck you Paladins) or even decent out-of-combat utility. Their role in the fight is for swings to fly at them but not do anything, so everyone else can contribute to the fight without getting instagibbed.

We've lost marking, applying disadvantage against enemy attacks is often to the detriment of your own action or requires limited resources, and other means of doing it are either unavailable to some tank classes or remain suboptimal as far as overall tank utility goes. One must then rationalize that there is SOMETHING that tanking characters are doing in the fight to engage targets and earn their ire, and it needn't revolve around making social skill checks.

Just imagine a little level 1 feature at the start of whatever tanking class that reads
>As a free action, you can be an obnoxious little shit that gets in the way of the enemy, talking mad smack about his mom and constantly invading his personal space. This causes the enemy to be more likely to want to powerdunk your face into the ground.

>>50199138
Best tank is halberd fighter, because they can just stop all enemies from moving toward the party.

>>50199082
It's funny, I always ask my players to roll to hit and damage, and then describe the attack based on the hit points lost compared to the remaining hit points of the monster.

My players don't need to know the AC of what they are attacking, and this way, they are left in the dark as to what is actually happening. I also tend to describe it in tiers:
<10 = your attack goes wide. Miss.
10 to 10+Dex = the attack is dodged
10+dex to AC after armour = the armour takes the blow
Any additional AC gained through through magical means = the attack seems to hit, but the target seems unaffected.

Hitting a target but doing almost no damage compared to the remaining health pool = same description as the armour or magical AC description.

It keeps the mind games going, and the players generally feels it is more engaging, because it isn't just "did I hit the right number?", but instead "did I make the enemy react to my attack?"

>>50199138
That's my point. Pumping up your AC and then demanding the DM attack you because otherwise you're worthless is dumb.

Instead, do what >>50199163 suggests. Grab a polearm, lock down an area. Or if your party is mostly melee, take a shield and Protection style.

It doesn't really matter how sky-high your AC is as long as it's better than the wizard's, and you can make the Wizard unappealing enough of a target that they'd prefer to attack you.

That was the entire point of Marking. Enemies weren't forced to attack you, it just made it so all your allies had an effective +2 AC, which was close to the same as yours. If you pumped up your AC so it was 6 higher than all the other people in the party, then the mark didn't matter, since it was still better to hit the other guys.

That's what being a tank/defender in D&D is. You're controlling an area and discouraging enemies from attacking anyone else. You don't do that by being impossible to kill, you do that by being hard to kill and making your allies seem just as hard to kill.

Sorry if this isnt the place to post this
Guys i want to start playing DnD, but i cant play with friends in person because dnd isnt a thing where i live currently. On roll20 i've been trying for about 2 weeks and i've yet to find a group since people dont seem to want to play with new people