/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>50149154
>Is the defense for the rich really that far off from wanting monarchy?
I'd say yes. Were he French or German I wouldn't bat an eye, since both countries have a strong history with monarchism. But America is a country founded on republicanism.
>>50149204
Eh. Modern monarchists are generally more social conservatives than libertarians, at least in Europe. Neo-feudalists are nutjobs, even more than ancaps.
>>50149092
I have posted a couple of bloodlines in these threads before: the Sternberg and VtR Samedi. I'm working on a few others.

>>50149269
America is founded on a lot of things that modern Republicans tend to forget, like Religious freedom. A lot of the Neo-Monarchist crowd are pretty Libertarian, from what I've seen (which admittedly isn't much). Plus there's the people who want a transhumanist techno-libertarian world run by a Godlike machine like Roko's Basilisk.

>>50149092
I've made a *lot* of homebrew beyond the Vicissitude one. I'm not sure whether I should link my catgirls or the magical girls, though. There's also the Whipping Boys, though I need a capstone power for them. Nothing feels suitable for a fifth Attainment.

I should probably try my hand at a Lodge, or Entitlement. Or more Bloodlines. I still love Bloodlines the most.

>Catgirls
I should remake these from scratch. I could do the Bloodline Bane better
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw1LjRyuD
>Magical Geist weapons
This one is actually so bland I forgot about it
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw1LjXAra
>Magical Girls (v2)
I'm super proud of this, I don't even care how much people hate the very idea
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw1o-mJcX
Sample Magical Girl
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw1pEEBQt
>Holiday Conditions that didn't win :<
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw1_H0rJe
>The Whipping Boys, revamped for 2e
I like a lot of my choices here. Particularly the Session mechanics (though I'm not sure I explain them well) and the fact that the Session is their ritual.
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw27KSZGO

>>50149500
Hello, Aspel.
>>>/d/

So this >>50129254 has given me ideas for what I want for my haven/safe place, just sharing incase anyone doesn't know it exists.

>>50149500
I didn't know were the one that made the magical girl conspiracy. They have a cool endowment, even if I don't like the whole fandom angle. It just seems silly.

>>50149751

Honestly, if it were something totally about Fandom or something totally around Pactio, it'd be better. As it is, it's pretty disjointed.

>>50149842
Agreed. It kind of reminds me of the Ascending Ones, who would work better as three distinct conspiracies who may or may not share the same endowment.

>>50144284
Jesus christ this is awful, how is everyone eating it up like it's the best candy? Christ I hate Hill Jr.

the weaknesses aren't any grander, it's more vampire than changeling and it's fucking broken.

>>50149956
>how is everyone eating it up like it's the best candy?

Chrodniggers

>>50149590
For fucks sake! Knock this shit off! It is getting way, way, more obnoxious than Any stupid shit Aspel ever did.

Also, Aspel, get a fucking Trip, so we can get rid of this fucking culture of "accusing everyone we dislike of being Aspel."

>>50150071

They're not going to trip and we have to accept this. This is just how it's going to be until there's no more generals, unfortunately. As long as the bait goes out, people will pick it up, because /tg/ never learns.

>>50150069
Fucking apprently man, I'm not super far in the thread, but everyone so far has sung Jr's fucking praises.

>>50149590

This is getting old, the site's big enough for everyone, everyone fights everyone anyways, whats the difference ?

https://strawpoll.de/a82y4s5

>>50149913
>>50149842
Why do you feel like it would work better as an either/or thing? I mean, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but at the same time I like the Pactio mechanic of needing to take on a Ban. Feels very faerie. I mean, I suppose the faerie aspect can feel a little weird tied to the fandom magical girl thing, but at the same time how else would I tie it to the CofD?
How would you handle it?

>Agreed. It kind of reminds me of the Ascending Ones, who would work better as three distinct conspiracies who may or may not share the same endowment.
Also elaborate on this.

>>50149751
I don't remember why I did the fandom thing, but it seemed like an interesting take on a Hunter organization.

Also, fuck it. Here's my Open Call submission.
>Group of Slasher survivors turned Slasher Hunters and maybe on the verge of being Slashers themselves
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw2ENsJGA

>>50150071
But then the thread would just be about how I should stop tripping because tripcodes are for egotistical shits.
I mean, I got rid of the trip because that's how every thread went. 4chan can't stand knowing who people are. Anonee mouse is leejun

>>50150330
Look at Amatajakki. Noone complains there. Because it makes the thread less of a civil war.

>>50149956
>how is everyone eating it up like it's the best candy?
Is everyone eating it up like candy though?
Onyxpath forums are one big circle jerk where critique is barely allowed and half of people there see themselves as aspiring RPG developers who try to score favour of actual devs by sucking up to them.

>>50150303
>I did the fandom thing

Well there's the hunter combat that's a bunch of sorority sisters. Conventions are slowly become more and more of a thing in the public mind. They started as mostly a business thing, but anime and gaming sort of push into that space of our culture. Girl in costumes tend to do that.

Convection centers was listed in the vamp book as a feeding place. And I do remember in the original MIB comic book, the agents went to a convention.

Ok so design challenge: how do you set a plot in / during a convention?

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>>50150374

Requiring someone to act differently from everyone else to accommodate some one else hatred. Look I'm not one to point out such things. BUT Hows the front of the bus looking?

>>50150416
Alright explain Gecko?

>>50150303

You got two choices:

1. Dump Pactio and focus on a fandom Compact that uses its love for a show as a means of facing the supernatural, spreading information, and facing the unknown.

Or

2. Dump the fandom stuff, focus on Pactio, and have an completely straight and serious Magical Girl Conspiracy with dark hints at a Fae patron.

>>50150303
I think Pactio is a great endowment, and I basically agree with >>50150569. Having the two groups separate but coexisting is also a possibility.

About the Ascending Ones, many books insist that they are practically three different conspiracies. I would actually make them different organisations in the rules as well, with different status merits and maybe different elixirs/alchemical stuff.
>The Knife of Paradise are either the "true" successors of the cult of the Phoenix or others that took their torch after they died out. They are basically the Union with alchemy and a mystic bent.
>The Jagged Crescent are one of their splinter groups. They are too powerful to be re-absorbed and have basically stopped taking orders from them.
>The Southern Temple is a completely unrelated group of Western alchemists who just happen to have a similar endowment

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>>50150774
I think the extra stuff was put in there to demonstrate how even cells in the same conspiracy don't always see eye to eye on things. But yeah regionalism is a thing, when your threats are local

Is there "spell control" for Legacy Attainments?
Say a Fate-Based Legacy has an Attainment which simulates Forge Destiny, with duration primary, and reach for prolonged duration.

Could you just use that Attainment on a procession of individuals, each taking one hour to do so, in order to give them 3-dots worth of Supernatural Merits for about a year?

That would be enough to equip a cadre of Sleeper assistants with potent Supernatural abilities such as Aura Reading, Clairvoyance, Laying on Hands, Medium, Omen Sensitivity, any given form of Psychokinesis, Psychometry, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Thief of Fate or just plain and simple Unseen Sense.

You could make your own X-Men.

>>50150543
>Alright explain Gecko?
I assume you refer to some user of onyxpath forums, but due to aforementioned reasons I don't frequent it often enough to know every idiot there.

>>50150543
>>50150416
>Onyxpath forums are one big circle jerk where critique is barely allowed and half of people there see themselves as aspiring RPG developers who try to score favour of actual devs by sucking up to them.

Most accurate description of the OPP forums.

>Alright explain Gecko?

He didnt get on with the cocksucking so he was kicked out.

>>50151187
I'm baffled man, people even mention that they get knee jerk reactions to splat crossing and knowing it's a stigma. But then they go on an praise a fucking bad attempt at it.

I'd rather play a Abomination than these things, at least then I'd feel like something ACTUALLY double cursed.

>>50150330
>>>/d/

>>50151278
That goes WAY back to oWoD and the Samuel Haight Fiasco when they were in the "We're just figuring this shit out as we go along." phase.

>>50150511
Aspel? You're a pedo. Shut the fuck up and stop comparing yourself to Rosa Parks.

>>50150511
Looking an awful lot like culture appropriation, you god damn gorilla.

>>50150511
You aren't Rosa Parks, you are that annoying guy at the end of the street claiming that he's above the law

>>50151369
If a law has been broken Anon, its your duty as a citizen to report it to the authorities

>>50151400
>>50151435
Obvious Samefag

>>50151369
There's nothing wrong with being a paedo as long as you don't break the law.

>>50150374
Plenty of people do, just not that often.
>>50150416
I've complained about plenty of things, and Hill seemed to appreciate it. Although I've also complained about plenty of things and he said I wasn't acting in good faith.

>>50150420
I meant "what do you mean it would work better if it were only about fandoms hunting?"
I mean, the idea is not solely the conventions, it's the communities that form around nerdshit.
I was reading stuff about how fandom has helped people get over anxieties or depression or things like that, and felt like that sort of thing would be a good catalyst for Hunters. Instead of coming together for things like sick kids, they kill evil faeries and hobgoblins.

>Ok so design challenge: how do you set a plot in / during a convention?
Actually, that's the plot to one of the Dresden Files books. Proven Guilty. A monster movie creature comes to life and attacks people at a horror movie convention, Splattercon!!!

>>50151369
>>50151400
>>50151435
That's not even me you incompetent shits :V
Get off your high horses.

>>50150511
Defending your shitposting as important as a landmark political movement is the absolute height of hubristic narcissm that would make even a scelestus go, "Woah there, buddy, think about someone other than yourself."

>>50150569
>>50150774
I suppose I could see it working as a compact, though that'd lose the Magical Girl element.
What about the fandom stuff doesn't work with Pactio and the Magical Girl stuff?
My way of seeing it is that the magical faerie bullshit came first, and then they rallied around the fandom second, due to the de facto founder using manga and then anime as an outlet. I mean, it's that aspect that I feel makes it a *conspiracy*. Albeit a conspiracy about Moichendaizing as opposed to anything more sinister.
̶P̶l̶u̶s̶,̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶M̶a̶g̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶G̶i̶r̶l̶ ̶b̶u̶l̶l̶s̶h̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶e̶c̶h̶a̶n̶i̶s̶m̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶c̶r̶u̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶a̶c̶t̶i̶c̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶o̶w̶s̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶i̶f̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶g̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶g̶i̶r̶l̶ ̶b̶u̶l̶l̶s̶h̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶i̶r̶s̶t̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e̶

>About the Ascending Ones, many books insist that they are practically three different conspiracies.
I actually never even knew that. I knew about the Cult of the Phoenix and Khaibit connections, but not the three groups thing. Where's that?
Although I think >>50150835 has it right.

>>50151278
>>50151351
People have a kneejerk reaction to outright double-template shenanigans. The difference here is that it's a merged template. This is also why no one really cares about the Tremere (at least, in nWoD; in oWoD people hate them for the fact that they're bullshit, not that they're wizard-vampires) or the Dead Wolves. Crossover stuff is fun and neat and good in small doses.

People like the Vampling because Hill actually took what themes the two had in common and intertwined it, instead of just Samuel Haighting.

>>50151598
That's not me you incompetent shit :V

Also, he's right, though; I'm not going to do something to make your life easier when you're just going to continue to shitpost about me. Why would I? I'll get a trip when you do.

>>50151594
>That's not even me you incompetent shits :V
>Get off your high horses.

See? This is why I want you to get a fucking trip, so that we can stop this shit.

>>50151647
I didn't say it was, you unlovable sack of shit.

>>50151598
nah I think the part where they beat the fuck out of a hundred nigis slightly more landmark than getting arrested

>>50151623

They don't mesh because one part is a widespread international fandom, and the other part is a splat targeted strike force with an Endowment that doesn't connect well with the rest of the Conspiracy as a whole, with a threadbare hint at the constructive forces of fandom to serve as connective tissue.

>>50151594
I have read Proven Guilty. It was a good book. don't spoil the rest of the Series! I'm excited for it.

Changeling Dreaming, was kind of suppose to be an metaphor for depression and using fantasy to manage it, and get back to a normalish life. And actually you can say the same thing about Lost

>>50151623
>̶P̶l̶u̶s̶,̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶M̶a̶g̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶G̶i̶r̶l̶ ̶b̶u̶l̶l̶s̶h̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶o̶p̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶e̶c̶h̶a̶n̶i̶s̶m̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶c̶r̶u̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶a̶c̶t̶i̶c̶

You know .... Cults use a technique called Lovebombing. after the machinations of being played along like a fiddle for some fae, I can see where a little kindness can convince someone to drop everything and join a suicide squad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgk8UdV7GQ0

So guys, would you say this is a good comparision to what a Technocrat and Mage would talk like in a discussion. You know, if they where retards like the ALways Sunny crew.

So, I'm making a custom legacy, it's basically a cross between the Brotherhood of the Demon Wind (with the weeabo shit tuned down), and the Perfected Adepts (only focused on external projection, rather than internal perfection).
They will be really high on the discipline thing, would it be a reasonable way for a Legacy to function, to demand that adherents spend an hour a day meditating on their concepts, to activate the Attainments, but then have them active until they go to sleep?

>>50151650
Or people could stop being shits.

>>50151734
I don't know. I mean, I just see the magical girl faerie aspects as justifying the fandom aspects in-setting, and the fandom aspects justifying the magical girl aspects out-of-setting. The fandom aspects, to me, work *because* they're actual magical girls. If they were more general fandom focused, the monster hunting aspects would be weird.

>>50151794
>don't spoil the rest of the Series! I'm excited for it.
Spoilers: It's great.
I don't know if I'd say that Lost is about managing depression using fantasy, and I don't know if I'd say that Dreaming has aspects of "getting back to a normal life". Dreaming--especially as my CtD loving friend sees it--is a game more or less about abandoning your life and hating the responsibilities and Banality that comes with a normal life.

I mean, Lost *is* about managing depression, though. And abuse.

>>50151876
Eh, maybe. Like I said, the "we're just like in the TV show" aspect is what makes the fandom part work for me. If your chuuni daydreams are REAL, then of course you'd be willing to make a deal with Kyuubei.

>>50152091
Have the Attainments activated by a Ritual (that takes one scene). Normally you can tweak the spell factors to last days, but just give it an arbitrary cap.

>>50152287
>Have the Attainments activated by a Ritual (that takes one scene). Normally you can tweak the spell factors to last days, but just give it an arbitrary cap.

Yeah. That's kind of what I wanted to do. Cap them at 1 day, no matter the Arcanum limit, but activate most of them with just one ritual.

>>50152287
>Or people could stop being shits.
Possible answer #1: Yeah. Or someone could drive up to my house and give me a million Euros. Not gonna happen either.

Possible answer #2: Let's start with you then? Since people complain about the rampant Aspel-accusations, the obvious way to not be a shit is to make it easier to determine who is Aspel and who isn't.

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>>50152287
>deal with Kyuubei

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>>50152394

Work out so well over seas

>>50152091
Activating all attainments at once, in exchange for maximum duration of one day sounds fair.

I'd write it into their philosophy however. Perhaps something like "sleep disorders the mind with the influences of the Astral, meditation puts your house in order again"

Also how dare you slander one of my favorite Legacies.

>>50152473
I was mostly thinking about it in terms of the relative inaction of sleep disperses the focused energy they force into their bodies.

>>50152473
Just as a caveat, remember for that you've got to slap some reach on it for Duration, and Duration will likely be the primary factor for many spells.

>>50152491
Sound good, I'd also say that you HAVE to sleep, to unwind. Otherwise that focussed energy would tear their mind and body apart in time.

Otherwise some dickbag with Life would just use the no-sleep-needed spell, and get persistently active attainments.

>>50152492
Yeah. I'm basically taking the instant action Reach and instead placing it on Advanced Duration.

>>50152510
It's also worth, at higher attainment levels, looking back at the earlier attainments and seeing what you can do with the extra reach you've got floating around.

Most higher-practice spells you'll find more use casting as actual spells with more flexible reach and spell factors.

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>>50152416
Don't you want to be a magical girl?

>>50152394
Or people could stop worrying about who is or isn't Aspel.

>>50152608
But he's just the worst anon, on here and in social settings. He's non-redeemable, he needs fucking meds.

>>50152287

They still don't click together, because it doesn't really follow why someone in an otherwise ordinary fandom would automatically jump into embracing Pactio and doing magical girl things, even if they're big fans of the material. People in fandom aren't all "chuunis", and even those faced with the reality of the situation may still hesitate before taking up the Vigil.

If it was all a front for an Aum Shinrikyo style religion, which did use anime and manga to spread its doctrine, it might be easier to swallow, but it doesn't seem like you're willing to go down that route. We get told that the fandom does everything it can to help deal with Fae related problems, but we all we actually get is just an Endowment that's more or less used just for combat. Because of that, I'm not even sure why the Conspiracy even has Circle, it might as well all just boil down to being a Pretty Soldier.

There's also the fact that in Madoka, "becoming a Magical Girl" wasn't in itself the real goal for most of the characters. Each person who took up the contract wanted something deeply personal beyond that: Mami wanted to live, Sayaka wanted love, Homura wanted redemption. Even Madoka takes up the contract in the name of cosmic absolution. Compared to your influence, the motivation of your Conspiracy as is comes off as hollow. Focusing on one aspect and dumping the other, whichever you choose, creates a stronger, more focused faction.

Man, that feel when you need to think about a Androgynous name for someone from Iberia in the 1200s. Fuck why did I have to do a dark ages vampire.

>>50152839
John

Universal name

>>50152632
>Anon projects
Why bother shitposting about it, though?

>>50152702
Well, they're fandoms of specifically these magical girls. I swear there was some anime with a similar premise (or maybe it was Digmon Season 3), but the idea is that they're fans of these magical girls who get attacked by Faeries or have their friends and loved ones replaced by Fetches or eaten by Hobgoblins or have their souls stolen by Changelings or whatever. So along comes these people who say that it's all real and the character can make a bargain to fight back against her nightmares.

>all we actually get is just an Endowment that's more or less used just for combat.
Hrm. Does it really come off that way? I tried to have non-combat stuff, like Light of Truth, Big Sister Says, Kiss Kiss Fall in Love, and Hope's Blessing (and maybe Mascot).
Also, Madoka's not the *only* influence, just the most obvious. Ideally the actual characters of anyone involved in the conspiracy would have noble reasons for taking up the Vigil. Or at least what Hunters tell themselves are noble.

>If it was all a front for an Aum Shinrikyo style religion, which did use anime and manga to spread its doctrine, it might be easier to swallow, but it doesn't seem like you're willing to go down that route.
I mean, it's not quite what I wanted to do for this, but it does kind of seem like a good idea.
I'd actually had an idea a while back for a Universal Brotherhood/Scientology inspired Conspiracy where the front face of the Conspiracy was a peace and love and unity cult, but the Hunters were essentially Lovecraftian Power Rangers, a la the Tagers from CthulhuTech.

>>50152853
There are Johns in Iberia? Wait girls can be called John?

>>50152923
Every variation of every culture has Johns

>>50152868
>Projecting

Rory, I've talked to you a long time, I've talked to your friends, people that don't like you and people don't care.

You're kinda awful in every scenario I've seen you in.

Also lets be honest, people shitpost becuase it's fun and this is a anonymous place. Plus people like to complain

>>50152608
>Or people could stop worrying about who is or isn't Aspel.

It's not hard to figure out. They always reply to multiple people in their posts. Not one or two, but four or more people in a row. They also always drag every conversation back to their special homebrew we're all sick of hearing about.

>>50153004
I haven't noticed Aspel talking about their homebrews in ages...

>>50152923
>There are Johns in Iberia? Wait girls can be called John?

Anywhere there is Christianity, there are Johns. You could go with the Greek form, Ioannes or Yahya for Persian/Arabic, or Yochanan for Hebrew.

>>50153061

>>50149500

>>50152868

Right, but that's still a fandom. It's pretty wide and diverse, even if it's just over a single piece of media, which means it still doesn't really follow.

See, here's the thing. You've got two seperate ideas here: You've got people being offered a dark pact to deal justice, and you've got people drawn into the world of their fantasies with a dark twist. Both of these are strong hooks on their own, but you don't tie the knot between the two very well, and it makes both weaker. This is why we say to focus on one or the other, because either one will create a faction with a stronger hook and theme.

And yeah, Pactio does come off that way. And that's fine, comitting violence is an inevitable part of the Hunt. It's just that as it is, it only weakens the greater picture of your Conspiracy. It makes me unsure about why the other two Circles are there at all when they'll have a smaller share of Pactio to choose from when pursuing their aspect of the Vigil.

You've either got to focus more on a Vader's Fist type org a la Habiti Ma, or focus more on the mystical revenge aspects with deep secrets, a la Knights of St. George.

ATAMAJAKKI IF U HERE

have they told the scion backers anything new? didn't have the money to b ack at the time

>>50151594
>>50151647
>>50152287
>>50152448
>>50152868
>>>/d/

>>50153061
Anon, I am literally doing it in this thread...
>>50153004
People talking about the topic of the thread? How terrible!
Also, that was me you were replying to, so it clearly is harder than you think

>>50153331
>people drawn into the world of their fantasies with a dark twist
See, I don't really see it that way. I mean, yes, many of the Senshi are people who will probably have liked the franchise, but to me it's the other way around. It's that people are trying to turn their horrible reality into something a lot easier to deal with. It's like someone getting superpowers in a relatively down to earth setting and deciding to become a superhero because that's the kind of lens that helps them deal with doing fucked up weird supernatural shit. Although I've said before that I want to make a character with Supernatural Merits who makes a costume and deals in vigilantism.

But ultimately, it's not solely that they're using anime to convert people into their cult. It's that they're using anime as a coping mechanism, which is why I went with the fandom aspect. Because a lot of people come to fandoms and use it to cope with abuse or disabilities or things like that. Here they're using a magical girl anime and doujinshi projects to cope with the things they do out there for real.

I mean, *to me* the fandom thing is a perfect fit. I just wish that other people liked it as much as I do. And I also felt like most of the Pactio powers were for non-combat, or at least not direct combat things. Maybe I should make more powers, that have more non-combat effects. Also, ultimately there's always one subgroup that more or less represents the whole Org. Combat, Research, and Support is a common divide.
I don't know, maybe it's just something that I'll always like more than anyone else.

>Vader's Fist
What?

>>50153611
4/5, not bad :^)

>>50153671
>>>/d/

>>50153611
Dood you do know he goes there/does worse than /d/ all the time right? I mean, have you seen his kink list/f-list profiles.

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>>50153611

>>>/b/

Is there a reason your posting random shit? I thought that was b/ and a/ territory

>>50153671

Fandom as a coping mechanism works, it's just that the leap to "and then they make a dark pact to become a magical girl and do Hunter things" doesn't feel natural with how you've presented it. It could possibly work if every possible part of the compact was presented as an elaborate ruse like what might be happening in Tomboy, but then there's only one obvious storyline from that and that's not very fun.

The fandom aspects could be a good fit, but here it's just a tacked on aspect to an otherwise OK take on wronged people taking power for vengeance. If the fandom aspect was split into a seperate thing, that'd be fine.

>What?

Well there's half the problem right there! Getting familiar with how fandom actually gets involved with the community is a great way of helping you figure out a better way to tie the two parts of the Conspiracy together. Also, if you still haven't watched Madoka or Nanoha since you've written that...you might want to get around to that. Symphogear might work too, since it's got a very similar vibe.

>>50154202
>Getting familiar with how fandom actually gets involved with the community

mostly like a cult. The more loyal and dedicated you are, that more they let you into their little circle. It spiraling ring of popularity contests

>>50154202
>Fandom as a coping mechanism works, it's just that the leap to "and then they make a dark pact to become a magical girl and do Hunter things" doesn't feel natural with how you've presented it
No, no. You've got it backwards. They're given the opportunity to hunt--essentially the whole "I can help you protect those you care about" schtick--and *then* use the fandom as a coping mechanism. There could in theory be people with Pactio abilities who aren't part of the Conspiracy, and simply don't know or care about the Magical Girl trappings. But essentially the "usual" way it works is that the members of the Conspiracy save someone or otherwise come to the rescue, use "hey, this is just like an anime" as a way to explain it to new girls, and then the new girl gets involved in the community because writing a manga about the shit that happened to you is the only way that you can "talk" to anyone about it.

It's not that you get involved in this anime fandom that turns out to be a secret cult.
It's that you become a magical girl and the other magical girls use their fandom as a support group. The fandom comes AFTER becoming a magical girl. I mean, you could be involved in the fandom as a mortal, and then end up as a Senshi, but it's not a recruitment tool so much as a way to coat the bitter pill and keep people from freaking out as much.

>Well there's half the problem right there! Getting familiar with how fandom actually gets involved with the community is a great way of helping you figure out a better way to tie the two parts of the Conspiracy together.
I know about fandoms, albeit mostly as an outsider, since I'm incapable of things like "enjoyment".
I meant "what the hell does Vader's Fist mean and how does that relate to Habibti Ma?"

>>50154279
Cliiiiiiiques

>>50154425
http://www.501st.com/

>>50154836
I'm still not getting how that connects to Habibti-Ma, but it's been a long day and I'm running on empty.

>>50154425

>The fandom comes AFTER becoming a Magical Girl

But then the fandom just being a regular fandom beyond the Conspiracy makes even less sense. An already flimsy explanation becomes even more so when exposed to the deeper strangeness of the Fae, and it's going to shatter by the time they hit their second or third Merit dot. So then it either has to become a religion or its members drive itself deeper into delusion, making the deeper parts of the fandom into something like the Final Fantasy VII house but with actual magic powers. That's certainly scary in its own way, but maybe not exactly what you might want and that's not the impression of the character arc that I get from the Conspiracy.

The more you try to link the two together, the more it falls apart, especially since we're not really shown how they use their fandom to cope and heal, which again, might be remedied by looking onto the 401st and other fandom charity and volunteer programs. I bring up Habiti Ma because they deal with their threat from the side: they deprogram Cultists and try to reunite families.

A fandom that helps people cope with the supernatural in that kind of style can evoke how fandoms can be constructive parts of the community while still interacting with the CofD, without the unnecessary baggage of strange and sinister pacts.

Alternatively, you could have a cult that uses a modern day fairy tale as the root of their Fae hunting religion based around a sinister pact, without the added baggage of how modern fandoms operate.

>>50154887
But how it works is that there were some teenage girls that made deals with faeries to protect their loved ones, then one of them started drawing manga to cope with it. That's what the Conspiracy is.

Not everyone who's involved in the fandom is part of the Conspiracy, but people who become part of the Conspiracy do tend to become involved in the fandom, because the Conspiracy uses it to keep from going crazy.

>we're not really shown how they use their fandom to cope and heal
Well, the main work and the doujin projects are all about the things that the Senshi face. Not the monsters, but the emotional toll. Having that to relate to is a pretty big thing, as is having the outlet to memorialize your actions and the actions of your friends using the doujinshi stuff.
There's also the Big Sisters, Little Sisters, who do rehab and therapy.
Although reading it again, maybe you're right. I still like the magical girl faerie contract elements, but I *could* add more to elaborate on the hows and whys of the actual fandom support group part. I'd originally been trying to make it short and sweet, but then made 12 powers because fuck it.

Also, while the grimdark magical girl thing is mainly Madoka, I think a bigger inspiration for the Conspiracy is Touhou, and maybe Fate.

But for now I sleep.

M20 Question.

Can you still make ranged attacks with Prime 2? For whatever retarded reason, they seem to have dropped the list of common effects that used to follow after each sphere.

Man fuck the vampire/changelings. Why would a Dev think that splat decking was a good idea, have they not learned? With all the praise the idea is getting I'm worried it's going to end up in a book, espically that crossover book.

>>50155092

The problem is that it's still a large fandom that's existed for thirty years, with plenty of depth in pop culture. It's hard to imagine someone latching onto the Conspiracy and taking the pact without already being aware of the property and being a fan before they took up the Vigil, and even then the Conspiracy will just end up something akin to a Mystery Cult by the modern day, using the manga as a kind of religious text. This is why the two parts of the Conspiracy don't really mesh so well: the has the name of the fandom and talks about the fandom as a whole, but is actually something that would only be a tiny fraction of the actual fandom in practice, while not going deep enough into either part.

So you've either got to focus on the grimdark magical girls, or the fandom as a force against Fae itself. If you focus on the former, absolutely watch Madoka, Nanoha, and Symphogear before your next draft. If you focus on the later, research fandom oriented charity and volunteer works before your next draft.

>>50155474
>the has the name of the fandom and talks about the fandom as a whole, but is actually something that would only be a tiny fraction of the actual fandom in practice, while not going deep enough into either part.
That's intentional, though?

It's not even supposed to be the fandom as a force against Fae itself.

>>50155472
Its just his stupid homebrew, a la Rose Bailey's Twilight homebrew.

>>50155552
Wait what, she made a twilight homebrew? What the hell I thought she was good.

Any feasible way to not be fucked over by mages using Correspondence or Space to pew pew you, drop frag grenades on you, etc., as much as they like, if you are a nonmage or a mage that lacks Correspondence/Space/etc?

>>50155552
Sorry, meant her, Rose was Ross at the time.

>>50155572
The premise was that fear frenzy and pain was a self defense mechanism, but they don't actually burn, just sparkle, and they can fight through it and get used to it flawlessly.

>>50155580
1. Don't give them a reason to
2. Get someone else to use some shielding Magic on you
3. It takes minimum Space 3 in order to do that, 4 if you want to actually do it propertly
4. Don't let them get any kind of Sympathy to you, and it's hard as shit to do
5. Get them first

Really though, any Mage who's happy to just try and fucking assassinate you like that is some fucked up asshole who you should 100% go to the Consilium/whatever-it-is-in-Ascension about.

>>50155520

It's why the two parts don't work well together, intention doesn't really play a part in it.

>>50155714
If a mage wants you dead and you've done something retarded like give them your name you kind of deserve it. Sympathy even with magic is something that takes time to develop. Even then, they still have to worry about effects. But it'd probably be better to find a power to shield against that. Unless it's fairly impossible. The alternative moving to another realm.

However, someone can't just casually just drop it on you unless they minmaxed a legacy that gives them access to essentially free scrying.

In all practically you won't have to worry about it unless your ST wants you to die or wants you to deal with it.

>>50156009
It's impossible to get free scrying.
Even if you have enough reach to get the sympathetic connection without paradox, it still takes a point of mana, and a yantra.

Also I really dislike the justification for a stick figure counting. Even if you'd like your character to think that represents them, I cannot see the sympathy sticking without at least a bit more effort.

>>50156052
I'd probably force at least a voodoo doll with a piece of something that belonged to the person.

http://theonyxpath.com/pre-election-day-coverage-monday-meeting-notes/

New Monday Meeting Notes.

Kithbook: Boggans (Changeling the Dreaming 20) is in First Draft.

World of Darkness: Ghost Hunters is in First Draft

Mortal Remains: Beast the Primordial is in Editing.

It looks like Conquering Heroes, the Beast antagonist book, will be upon us soon.

>>50156402
>World of Darkness: Ghost Hunters is in First Draft
Damn it. For a moment there I thought it was a CofD book, before I realized the name.

Then I remembered that they don't do CofD books any more.

>>50156402

TFW Dark Eras Companion is still stuck in art and editing limbo, and Signs of Sorcery hasn't advanced past Development.

BTW, has Dave recently mentioned when we might finally see the Mage FAQ and the other post-release material he promised?

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What are some good ideas for mortal/hunter games that don't necessarily explicitly involve the splats or the supernatural at large?

My players and I have been doing a slasher-of-the-week FBI style thing but they want to do a more solidified campaign, and I'm thinking of having them as ordinary people who slowly come into contact with a weird cultist/ritual Eyes Wide Shut style organization. What do yall think?

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Any thoughts on how this looks, lads? Haven't used freebie points yet but I'd like some input.

>>50156451

Considering that the guy's developing a whole other line, don't expect to see that until Spring at the earliest.

>>50155218
M20 is a fucking mess. The editor was an incompetent shit who should have been fucking blackballed over the goddamn thing.
>"This ruleset, let's break it up and spread it across multiple sections, cut the page apart with sidebars that could be included in the body of text.... also, it needs more irrelevant artwork and another 600 pages of Brucato doing his 'nana over the sins of modernism. OOh, let's not forget to repeat ourselves, contradict ourselves.... and put in a reminder that space was limited, okay? Got to cover our asses.

Your best bet, Anon, is to check "How Do I DO That?" to see if it's listed. If it's not, just ditch M20 and go back to Revised, the "Purple Paradigm" completely fucks the idea of Foci into something equal parts inappropriate and useless

>My death mage uses Yoga to cast Entropy 3!

>>50156402
There. Don't say COD fans don't contribute.

>>50157623

I try to do the Monday Meeting summaries when I can. I've been slacking lately because there wasn't a whole lot of change as of late.

>>50157645
Oh there is! If you are a WoD player.

>>50156514
Unfuck your bloodpool. Don't black out the ones that you have, black out the ones that you're using. Additionally, Generation is your Baller stat followed by Willpower and they're both ridiculously cheap to raise with freebies. Shame on you for ignoring them.

>>50156514
not shit. would approve.

>>50157379
agreed

Locking was a bullshit paragraph of self evident nonsense made more convoluted

>>50157707
What are you talking about, I said I hadn't used freebie points yet, I'm going to do that. Guess I'll use them to raise Willpower. Not sure I wanna fuck with Generation, seems not horribly intresting beyond the mas level for traits that go up to 6.

Also no way, having the black boxes be the blood points I have makes way more sense.

>>50156402
Other cool bits you missed:

>the return of White Wolf dice
>retailer POD discount
>Indie Press Revolution selling surplus from Kickstarter printings of deluxe shit
>merch, merch everywhere

>>50156514
Take the harbinger of the abyss flaw do it faggot do it do it do it do it

Also you sure you want only one point in manipulation

>>50158032
Where would I find that flaw?

Also yeah I'm sure, the character isn't really mean to be manipulative. Though if you think I'm wrong in that, I'm fine with hearing why.

>>50158079
Oh wait I found it, nevermind that. Honestly I'm not sure, it's cool and all but I'm not sure I could get away with that AND be a good christian thats trying to be, you know, high on her road/path.

As a Mage would I be able to send messages to someone via Astral?

>>50157645
>there wasn't a whole lot of change as of late
Tell me about that. Secrets of the Covenants is in proofing stage for more than month. I guess we should expect it to be absolutely flawless by now. Although knowing how "well proofed" other books are...

>>50158512
No, however you can leave a message in the Astral for them to go and pick up. Or just flat up meet them in the Astral.

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Is Flip Flappers an accurate representation of the Astral?

>>50158544
Most likely its OP shitting the bed with how Paradox seems to increasingly lean towards stripping all IP from them regardless of OP's promises and pledges.

Who knew selling political propaganda to a target audience that doesn't play games and at the same time shitting on the legacy of an IP mainly held by another company which repeatedly declared the intention to revitalize said IP can backfire!

>>50159062
Is that an animu containing a realm of conceptual thought-reality reflecting the collective mind-soul of mankind, constitued of innumerable realms each relating to a different communallyy held perspective, inhabited by Goetia of various independant and self-motivated concepts, and those intrepid mages who venture out into such a realm in search of power or knowledge?

If so, yes.

>>50159064

Don't get me wrong, I am strictly deplorable, but owod was super political propaganda too, and imo much worse.

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>It looks like Conquering Heroes, the Beast antagonist book, will be upon us soon.
Reminds me a bit of whack-a-mole.

>>50159064
>Who knew selling political propaganda to a target audience that doesn't play games and at the same time shitting on the legacy of an IP mainly held by another company which repeatedly declared the intention to revitalize said IP can backfire!

What on earth are you talking about?

>>50159283
>but owod was super political propaganda too

Hardly. It had political themes but didn't endorse or deplore anything aside from obviously bad things like infernalism.

>>50159283
>owod was super political propaganda too, and imo much worse.

Yes, how dare they encourage people to recycle and care about the environment. Those MONSTERS!!!

>>50159359
>It had political themes but didn't endorse or deplore anything

Having the Nazis & the Confederacy's garou be wyrm tainted (ie. objectively bad for the universe) and their opponents being Gaian garou, Pentex being noted to be too white and too male, and the North American tribes being free of the Wyrm before the white man came isn't endorsing or deploring anything? Come on.

At least nwod keeps it confined to strictly out of character whining in obscure places.

>>50159398
Just make a real response instead of a strawman. I have no idea why people have such tender, baby soft skins about a minor aside in a couple places that have no impact on the setting or cosmology, but have nostalgia goggles for the over the top corny nonsense in owod (which, I might add, is my preferred 'wod)

>>50159406
>Having the Nazis & the Confederacy's garou be wyrm tainted

The Nazis killed millions and the Confederacy wanted to own slaves ("That's pretty fucked up" -- Three Dog). I'd say that calling them "wyrm tainted" is letting the cunts off lightly.

I bet you think Ferdinand Marcos was just misunderstood, too.

>>50159460
>Just make a real response instead of a strawman.

The environment is a real political issue and hot-button topic, you fucking moron.

>>50159406

Except the free council book which was blatant propaganda about murica democracy.

Even pointing out the flaws of democracy but then doubling down saying "but the free council is too kwel for that"

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>>50159406
>Pentex being noted to be too white and too male,

Utterly typical corporate culture. pic related, study conducted in 2015.

>... and the North American tribes being free of the Wyrm before the white man came isn't endorsing or deploring anything?

What's wrong with deploring the annihilation of a people and culture, the mass extinction of North American wildlife and the befouling of the environment? What are you, a Captain Planet villain?

>>50159465
And yet the point is that its propaganda and definitely picking a side, especially as you have a whole tribe centering around committing genocide upon the inferior and the Garou Nations performed such en masse against humans anyway back in the day.

Furthermore, the point is that, if you were to follow the reply chain, not whether its good or bad, but to point out that owod had politically correct propaganda in spades, especially compared to the most minor of asides in nwod.

>>50159471

I'm not sure why it being important to you that doesn't make it political propaganda (and WtA doesn't have much at all about inadvertent environmental destruction except as a background element). I'm sure Rose's stuff is subjectively important as well.

>>50159494
See, that's the absolute first example I've ever seen of a real element of propaganda in a finished nwod product, thanks.

>>50159505

I agree, thats why is kinda better to take your own interpretation of the themes of the games.

Like werewolf is about having a good goal shared by assholes. Kinda like being a black rights activist alongside the black panthers.

>>50159505
>And yet the point is that its propaganda and definitely picking a side

"propaganda"? The Nazis were assholes, that's a fact. Psychopaths rise to the top of corporate culture, that's a fact, as is the appalling track record of industries inside America towards the environment.

>whole tribe centering around committing genocide upon the inferior
Wrong. Go back and read the sourcebook again. The Red Talons want to exterminate humanity, not because of any smug air of superiority, but because we're causing a fucking Mass Extinction, killing wolves and clearing forests. If you were a wolf with a high enough intellect to grasp that, you'd want to kill humans over that too. Holy shit, nearly every US film about aliens involves we, the Earth, nuking/exterminating aliens for similar offenses.

>Garou Nations performed such en masse
For which they now feel Harano as a punishment. How is that biased or taking a side? It's showing emotional consequences.

>most minor of asides in nwod
holy SHIT. Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you weren't accessing 4chan for any of the, I don't know, dozen or so threads we've had turn into absolute screaming matches over sidebars telling people that
> "if you're okay with monsters killing people, but not trans/gay people, maybe you should think about that."

>owod had politically correct propaganda in spades,

WoD: Gypses, Kindred of the East, the Ravnos, the Assamites, Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom and nearly every Tribebook ever published prove you wrong. People still cringe over those books today.

>>50159498
Agreeing with propaganda crammed into an RPG book does not make it anything other than propaganda crammed into an RPG book, especially since its being compared to nwod propaganda, which consists of:
1. A very minor aside in ndemon (something like "in white supremacist patriarchal societies, most demons will choose to adopt a white male form for convenience," which is ultimately just an overly inflammatory way of opining why most demons seem to be white or male in form)
2. The Free Council thing (which although masturbatory, presumably isn't controversial to anyone in a democratic country)

>>50159537
>I'm not sure why it being important to you that doesn't make it political propaganda

I'm not sure what you're even trying to say. Please rephrase.

>>50159600
>Agreeing with propaganda crammed into an RPG book does not make it anything other than propaganda crammed into an RPG book

It's fact, Senior Throatwarmer. You can pretend it's not all you like. Disagreeing with facts crammed into an RPG book does not make it magically untrue.

Do you think Shoah: Charnel Houses to be propaganda because it talks about the victims of the Holocaust, and the emotional consequences of millions of people being killed?

>>50159505
>but to point out that owod had politically correct propaganda in spades, especially compared to the most minor of asides in nwod

That not necesarily a bad, using the game to explore ideologies could get prettt interesting.

That said people who make wod games back in the day and now are incredible bias and uninformed. So they come across as preachy as university activist with a che guevara tshirt.

The saving grace is the their bias and their ignorance cancel each other. They dont wanna show the flaws in their politics but are so stupid that their virtues come off as straw man arguments

>>50159598
And yet the Nazis are portrayed as objectively evil for a much smaller scale action than what Red Talons, Ratkin, and all the garou in the Garou Nation did during the Impergium, so yeah, its political propaganda.

Again, it jiving with your opinions does not alter that fact, otherwise one couldn't say the vague nwod propaganda is so either.

>Psychopaths rise to the top of corporate culture, that's a fact, as is the appalling track record of industries inside America towards the environment.

Has nothing to do with *anything* I said.

>Wrong.

Yes, I'm aware that the Red Talons imagine themselves as acting in self defense, like every other genocide in history.

>How is that biased or taking a side?

They're emotionally torn up about it thousands (?) of years later rather than being instantly Wyrm tainted. Wow.

>I don't know, dozen or so threads we've had turn into absolute screaming matches over sidebars telling people that

That's about the level of reaction *by the fans*, not how much of it there is in the books. It just shows a double standard.

>People still cringe over those books today.

And yet they invariably tried to be as sympathetic pro-whatever minority was being discussed as possible. For example, the Gypsies book describing the Nazi motive for exterminating them as that they were jealous of the purity and superiority of their blood.

>>50159627

Don't be silly.

>>50159604
>I'm not sure what you're even trying to say. Please rephrase.

People are trying to portray political propaganda that is widely agreed upon as not being... political or propaganda. By which standards, one can dismiss any perceived nwod propaganda.

>>50159064

>target audience that doesn't play games

This old chestnut doesn't have legs like it might when you use it for other kinds of media, because White Wolf's target audience has always been those people. Of Darkness games have always been pushed towards "socially progressive" people looking for more personal narratives in their tabletop gaming. Whether or not you think they actually did in reality this doesn't really matter, their tag line was still "games for mature minds" for quite some time. And, for a time, it made them a direct challenger to TSR and then WotC.

The fact that someone would see a bunch of sidebars and asides as more of a thorn in financial thorn in OPP's side as opposed to its administrative issues is stunning. Yes, clearly it's the politics at work here, not the distribution of labor.

>>50160065
I genuinely cannot imagine the perspective of someone who thinks this sort of shit is new.

>>50159651
>the Impergium
It predates recorded history, being something of a myth rather than a fact. Further, how many millions of people do you imagine were actually living on the earth back then? Look up the estimated population during the ice age sometime, the tribes were small as fuck.

The Nazis, on the other hand, were very anal about keeping written documents, so we know pretty much everything they got up to. There were a lot more people around to exterminate at that point.

>has nothing to do with anything I said
Bollocks. You said it was "propaganda", I'm pointing out it's fact, and you're pretending it's not. Caught up now?

>Yes, I'm aware that the Red Talons imagine themselves as acting in self defense, like every other genocide in history.
The Khmer Rouge were trying to restart their civilization. African purges are often tit-fot-tat over previous tribal incidents... or religion. The Nazi Pogrom was not about "self defense", it was described to their own people like cutting diseased limbs from a healthy body, an improvement for the society as a whole by removing dead weight (do you honestly think the Nazis were physically *threatened* by the kids with Downs Syndrome that got lethal injections?). South American genocidal dictatorships have acted out of ethnic tensions.

Your ignorance is almost Trumpian in it's scope.

>They're emotionally torn up about it thousands (?) of years later rather than being instantly Wyrm tainted. Wow.

Uhhhhhh because the ones who got wyrm tainted from direct action have been dead for about a million years now? #lifespan

>double standard
It wasn't the WODs screaming about it, pal, it was the CODs. Unless the CODs were championing the WOD (unlikely given the level of tribalism in these generals) that is utter nonsense.

>And yet they invariably tried to be as sympathetic pro-whatever minority

Listen, you can't have it both ways. Either it was "propaganda" or it was cringe-worthy racist bullshit, as you acknowledge.

>>50160065
They did kind of get bought twice, but I think its TSR's flaw (too many things competing with itself)

>>50160189

Hey, at the very least, there's no WoD or CofD woodburning kit.

>>50160185
>it's fact, so it can't be propaganda
Might want to check your definitions there, pal.

>>50160281
>woodburning kit.

What?

>>50159406
>wyrm tainted (ie. objectively bad for the universe)

Thats why the Wyrm descended to save the universe during the End Times.

>>50155602
>Making WoD mechanics for Twilight vampires
Haha, that's neat. Dumb, but neat.

>>50155818
No, no, what I mean is that the theme of it isn't "fandom against the fae", it's "fandom as support group". The girl's are the ones fighting the Fae, then they come home and use the support group to stop from eating a magical bullet.

>>50156437
>Dark Eras
>Crossover Chronicle
???

>>50159064
Are you implying that Dracula is against the political agenda of Onyx Path? Because if anything I'd wager he's further left. Are you also implying that "SJWs don't play games", or something like that? Because Paizo regularly markets to SJWs and they make bank. Nevermind that Onyx Path is regularly in the top 100 of DrivethruRPG. So the notion that they're somehow marketing to a target audience that doesn't want to buy things from them is ridiculous. Oh, that's not to mention the massive Kickstarters they keep doing.
So clearly their "target audience" does indeed play games, and their "political propaganda" isn't backfiring.

Also I think we've had more books released this year than any other time, it's just that they've also got so much shit that they still need to release that it seems like it's all slowed down. Doesn't help that last year saw the whole IP sale to Paradox.

>>50159498
Good job spinning such a wondrous straw man chief Sore Ass.

Having the NA garou be wyrm free before ebil whitey garou came along is nothing but the noble savage concept remixed

>>50160297
fact
/fakt/
noun
1. a thing that is known or proved to be true.

propaganda
/prɒpəˈɡandə/
noun
1. information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

It is neither biased, nor misleading, to say that the Nazis were evil for exterminating millions of their own people, given that "thou shalt not kill" is a basic tenant of human religions and an inherent part of the social contract.

Please get a vasectomy, the world can do without your "unique" intelligence.

>>50159598
>The Nazis were assholes, that's a fact
Should it surprise me that world of tumblr attracts objective morality retards? I bet you believe in the right side of history as well

>>50159359
>>50159398
>Hardly. It had political themes but didn't endorse or deplore anything aside from obviously bad things like infernalism.
Yes, it clearly did. Go read Tribebook: Children of Gaia, which is one long "I am morally superior because I treat gay people as human" tract.
>>50159604
He's saying that you see environmentalism as a real worthwhile issue. Meanwhile, other people who aren't straight are very likely going to see queer civil rights as being a worthwhile issue.
Which, by the way, if anything, Onyx Path's work is *less* political, because it simply shows queer and minority people as existing, while the White Wolf of the 90s made things like Environmentalism or the anti-technology stuff core to it's premise.

>>50159351
Onyx Path markets to SJWs and everyone knows being politically progressive means you don't play elfgames!

>>50159465
And yet we have people currently right now in 2016 who still think the Confederacy was good and just and rebelling against the Northern Aggressors.

>>50159494
Well the Free Council should be too cool for that. They should progress passed American Democracy.

>>50159498
>Utterly typical corporate culture. pic related, study conducted in 2015.
And Hercules had many children through his heterosexual marriages, but people still got upset over that :V

>>50160624
>projection

I'm going to use small words. You seem to need that.

The game is about saving the environment. When whitey got to Murrica, he killed a million wolves. A million. Poison, traps and guns. They clearfelled forests, burnt coal, bought disease and deliberately infected natives, exterminated whole tribes as well as stole other tribes' children, introduced pest species and generally acted like very bad people.

Hmmmm, aren't some of those things associated with the wyrm, outside of your tendency to apply ethnic divisions to everything? Why, they are!!

Either you are
a) clinically brain dead
or
b) you don't know the subject matter as well as you think you do.

Pick one.

>>50160637
>tumblr

uhhhhhh... might want to check your browser, you're on 4chan at the moment? Or are you blind as well as inbred?

>>50159641
>That not necesarily a bad, using the game to explore ideologies could get prettt interesting.
Except that people are bitching about that exact thing.

>That said people who make wod games back in the day and now are incredible bias and uninformed.
They're not uninformed, you just don't agree with their political views. Frankly they're more informed.

>They dont wanna show the flaws in their politics but are so stupid that their virtues come off as straw man arguments
The politics people are wetting themselves over consist of "transgender people are human, if you get uncomfortable about that, you should look into why that is". That's not even a fucking inflammatory statement except to people who feel justified in their hatred of people who are ~different~ from them.

>>50160637
Are you implying that the Nazis were not "assholes"?
I am pretty sure the vast majority of people educated on the subject of WWII will objectively say that the Nazis were "on the wrong side of history". Are you trying to imply otherwise?

>>50159598
>It's showing emotional consequences.
They regularly grumble that the Impergium should return.
>> "if you're okay with monsters killing people, but not trans/gay people, maybe you should think about that."
How is that at all fucking crazy?

>People still cringe over those books today.
Yes, but at the time they were seen as left wing propaganda. When Shakespeare wrote A Merchant of Venice, Shylock was a positive portrayal of a dirty moneygrubbing Jew, but looking at it now it's still a pretty antisemetic caricature.
At least the Gyspies and Ravnos never converted to Christianity.

>>50160716
Are you, like, intentionally pretending to be retarded or something?

>>50160674
>Go read Tribebook: Children of Gaia
I'd rather not... but I think you're missing the point. All tribe or clan books are written from the point of view of those groups. Of course they're going to toot their own horn a bit.

>And yet we have people currently right now in 2016 who still think the Confederacy was good and just and rebelling against the Northern Aggressors.

People also seem to think Trump is a good business man, but he ran up mountains of debt and loss with other people's money as well as his own, going bankrupt four times (The fat oompa-loompa lost money on a Casino, for fuck's sake, how is that even possible?) so really, just because someone perceives something a certain way doesn't make it demonstrably true.

>And Hercules had many children through his heterosexual marriages, but people still got upset over that

Jesus Aspel, can I have some of your grass? That's some good shit... I prove that assertions about Pentex are factually based, and you go on a tangent about greek myth that isn't even backed up by the legends.

>>50160185
>Bollocks. You said it was "propaganda", I'm pointing out it's fact, and you're pretending it's not. Caught up now?

You said

>Psychopaths rise to the top of corporate culture, that's a fact, as is the appalling track record of industries inside America towards the environment.

Nothing of which had anything to do with what I said and never commented on anything (plus, Pentex is ruled by the Evil Superfriends).

> The Nazi Pogrom was not about "self defense"

Again, from their perspective, its self defense. Obviously not from many other people's.

>It wasn't the WODs screaming about it, pal, it was the CODs. Unless the CODs were championing the WOD (unlikely given the level of tribalism in these generals) that is utter nonsense.

Implying that nwod political propaganda is horrible generally implies that owod political propaganda is not.

>Listen, you can't have it both ways. Either it was "propaganda" or it was cringe-worthy racist bullshit, as you acknowledge.

Saying that there was political propaganda does not imply it is uniform.

I'm sure you're just going to angrily condescend, but mind sharing what the perceived racism of KotE was? Or was it just because it was whole cloth new cosmology?

>>50160770
Subjectively, from my point of view, I do think they were assholes. But you said they're assholes for a fact, which is wrong

>I am pretty sure the vast majority of people educated on the subject of WWII will objectively say that the Nazis were "on the wrong side of history

And I'm pretty sure that people actually educated on such subjects aren't whiggists that believe in right or wrong sides

>>50160772
You shouldn't use filler words like "like, um, ah, er." They lessen your impact as a speaker and water your insults down to nothing.

>calls me retarded
You're the poor unfortunate that thinks he's posting to tumblr, not me.

>>50160600
In one version, yeah, the Wyrm is cured of its madness. A very odd but pretty interesting scenario. I would love to see if a "healed" Wyrm would have different fomori, etc., or if they just wouldn't exist.

>>50160701
>exterminated whole tribes as well as stole other tribes' children

TIL injuns didn't do this until the Europeans came

>>50160627
Note that it does not say FALSE information. Also note that one of the synonyms of propaganda is publicity, and another is advocacy.

>>50160613
Sorry, I meant Twilight-like sun sparkling and them only THINKING sun would burn them.

>>50160807

So you aren't retarded, just slightly spergish.

It was a dumb insult meant to imply WoD is liberal

>>50160789
Generally when your businesses have over a 99% success rate, and businesses in general have well below a 50% success rate, that's pretty good.

>>50160770
>>It's showing emotional consequences.
>They regularly grumble that the Impergium should return.

Not all of them, or it certainly would. Gaia has given Garou immunity to disease, all they'd have to do is copy the latest Dan Brown movie.

>>> "if you're okay with monsters killing people, but not trans/gay people, maybe you should think about that."
>How is that at all fucking crazy?

It's not at all, I personally agree with the statement. However, I was arguing that the *impact* has not at all been minor. For such a casual comment, people on this board act like the book has ordered them to sit in a sling at the local gay bar and take on all cummers.

>>People still cringe over those books today.
>Yes, but at the time they were seen as left wing propaganda.

Hahahah, oh you kid, Aspel. Gypsies was abhorred in 1998, I remember other players groaning about it. One guy was so revolted with it that he gave me his copy for free, I still have it.

please don't leave, Aspel. fuck the haters.

>>50160566

There was a D&D woodburning kit. TSR had many strange things.

>>50160613

I understand what you mean, that's why it doesn't work, that doesn't follow with the way you present the fandom, and it doesn't follow with how fandom works or how people take up the Vigil. Either the fandom itself develops to take greater, albeit less direct means of dealing with Fae, or the fandom becomes smaller and a more direct recruitment arm for the Magical Girls.

You're really into having a fandom and traditional Hunter group being together, but you don't tie the two well, so you must either find a new way to do so for your next draft, or choose to cut or at least reduce one aspect and focus on the other.

>>50160281
Well, I didn't mean so much bloat of products, but the TSR like "oh, you wanted to use this book? well you need the thing of the thing from the thing to use it."

Case in point: if you want to make use of Fetter Rape from Doomslayers, probably the best dark arcanos power around (and one that has nothing to do with rape and doesn't have to involve a fetter), you have to have Wraith: The Oblivion, Spectres: Dark Reflections, and Risen as well.

>>50160798
>Nothing of which had anything to do with what I said and never commented on anything

Ok, link to the posts you made, because I think I'm talking to more than one person here.

> Nazis acting in "self defence"

it really wasn't seen that way, if it had been then the Jews would have been taken seriously as a threat. As it was, the Warsaw ghetto was able to stockpile guns, ammo and molotovs, and when the Nazis came to round them all up they got fucked up, bad. "Mein gott, die juden hast waffen!!" - next they sent in soldiers happily singing for propaganda films, those guys got bren-gunned for their troubles. Only after that were they taken as a threat enough for seasoned troops to be deployed.

>I'm sure you're just going to angrily condescend, but mind sharing what the perceived racism of KotE was?

You wound me, sir. But seriously, the problems with Kindred of the East were
1) the homogenisation of all of the diverse Asian countries into "Asian culture"
2) the idea that Asian people have different souls
3) the book reads like a bunch of anime fans watched a half dozen John Woo movies and concluded that was all they ever needed to know about an incredibly complex group of cultures and societies,
4) Kuei-jin are infinitely superior to Kindred. They're more enlightened, they know more about their immortal condition, they attain Golconda all the time, they're so much more spiritual, they don't have to drink blood if they don't want to because they're enlightened enough to know that there are other ways of getting Chi which western vamps are too stupid and white to ever comprehend, and their powerz rawk on toast on top of that. And they can go into the Umbra. And the Shadowlands. Can Kindred do that? And they can fly. They're so much more kewl and advanced and enlightened, that when even the most refined and enlightened western Kindred of all time (Saulot) came to the east to try to learn about enlightenment, he failed, stupid gaijin.

>>50160701
>Did the NA tribebooks recognize that native tribes kill each other and wage war before the EVIL WHITE MAN! appeared? Or its was just "everything was awesome until those pesky Europeans fuck everything"

>>50160801
>But you said they're assholes for a fact, which is wrong

They murdered. Millions. Of. Their own. People.

I'm astounded that you seem to think that doesn't make them bad people.

>>50160815
>TIL injuns didn't do this until the Europeans came

The native "slave trade" never amounted to anything more than trading prisoners of war. Total false equivalency.

>>50160817
see
>>50160627
>It is neither biased, nor misleading, to say that the Nazis were evil

>>50160987
>fuck yeah, green text
>I think they did, buddy, I can't imagine the Wendigo and the Uktena not having the occasional stoush over their tribes and intertribal conflict, but it comes back to what I said about each tribebook being written from the POV of that tribe, so of course a certain bias on the part of the narrator will creep in.

>>50160065
>This old chestnut doesn't have legs like it might when you use it for other kinds of media
I don't even see how it applies to any media. Sure, you can't go with super left wing queer stuff and expect everyone to buy your shit, but a lot of queer or otherwise ~SJW~ stuff does pretty well for itself.
Hell, Life is Strange is getting Netflix series or something, and that's about two lesbians, one of whom has coloured hair.

>Yes, clearly it's the politics at work here, not the distribution of labor.
What's amazing to me is that somehow despite being three people and a bunch of freelancers that can only sell things over the internet, Onyx Path is doing REALLY WELL. Arguments that their RADICAL QUEER PROPAGANDA of "these people exist and you shouldn't hate them" sort of fall flat when they're pulling in more and more profit.

>>50160627
You do know that facts can be misleading, right?
For instance, people like to go on about the death toll of communism, but ignore the death toll of capitalism. Showing the fact of aborted fetuses is misleading and biased and invokes emotional responses while ignoring the reality of how allowing people to choose when or when not to give birth is objectively better for society.
Hell, talk about how bad smoking is bad for you and how much harm it can do is *also* propaganda, even though, you know, it is bad for you.

>>50160789
The horn they were tooting was very clearly the developer's horn.
>I prove that assertions about Pentex are factually based, and you go on a tangent about greek myth that isn't even backed up by the legends.
What? Dude had at least two marriages and killed his kids. Though I don't think the book actually says marriages, so that's my bad.

>>50160801
Most people are going to agree that killing millions of people and plunging the world into war is "bad".

>>50160828
That's still neat, but also weird?
"You think you're fucking burning to death, but at least it looks pretty"

>>50160858
Enough of them to be meaningful.
>However, I was arguing that the *impact* has not at all been minor.
Yes, but people (including you) are arguing that oWoD was less political when compared to "queers are people ya'll".

>>50160887
>it doesn't follow with how fandom works or how people take up the Vigil.
I don't see how not? On either count.
I feel like I'm just not communicating things well.

how to post like Aspel

* always argue for the sake of arguing. No-one else is right, ever.
* if you get into a tight spot, insist you were misunderstood.
* argue semantic definitions while you're trying to think about what to say next.
* link to at least 4 - 6 other posts in your own, quoting them each time.
* do this occasionally :V

follow these easy steps, and soon no-one will know who Aspel is and we can all live harmony reading futa catgirl shotacon.

>>50160770
>Except that people are bitching about that exact thing.

That why i said "necessarily" the execution was mostly shit.

>>50160770
>They're not uninformed, you just don't agree with their political views. Frankly they're more informed.

No, they are uninformed. Lots of NWoDs and OWoD books are incredibly uninformed about LOTS of things. There is no discussion about that.

>>50160770
>The politics people are wetting themselves over consist of "transgender people are human, if you get uncomfortable about that, you should look into why that is". That's not even a fucking inflammatory statement except to people who feel justified in their hatred of people who are ~different~ from them.

Uh? I think we are talking about different things here. I am not talking about the sidebars. I am talking about things like this kind of stupid

>>50160674
>Well the Free Council should be too cool for that. They should progress passed American Democracy.

No, they shouldnt. You cannot base a entire organization into a flawed (like all political systems) political system and then just handwaved by saying they just "dont happen because they are too kwell for that" that incredibly immature.

Or the CoG tribebook in which cast a judgment on the garou nation for not accepting gay garou-on-garou people. Just waving its finger in shame. Without taking in account the social constructs that are necesary for the garou to keep going and trap them in their retrograde view and why such change while morally good is an uphill battle.

Had the book approached the issue informed it could have been great. Showing that they cannot just flaunt their technically litany breaking in the face of a bunch of muderous crusaders but instead they work to change the garou nation an inch at time

Or ignorant shit like the Adamantine arrow just ceasing and conflict post just after WWII because sure, that how people work? Better put, sure that how people with lots of power work......they dont...at all.

>>50161058
>You do know that facts can be misleading, right?
>Hell, talk about how bad smoking is bad for you and how much harm it can do

I don't think these two sentences belong in the same paragraph, Aspel.

Both the death toll of communism and the death toll of capitalism are facts. Citing one but not the other doesn't automatically make it propaganda. Besides, all the propaganda I've ever been exposed to has been baseless lies. The Christian Lobby groups are notorious for making shit up about gays, lesbians, trans-identity people and drug addicts; as propaganda.

>developer's horn
I just don't see it, sorry. Also, I think you're conflating Hercules with his father. Zeus had a heap of illegitimate children, Hera was always going crook over it, but the Greek peoples themselves didn't seem to judge. If anything it was seen as an endorsement of this idea that everyone, even the Gods, were prone to mortal foibles.

>>50161086
>es, but people (including you) are arguing that oWoD was less political when compared to "queers are people ya'll".

No, I'm the guy arguing that the politics were facts and not bullshit propaganda.

>>50160972
>it really wasn't seen that way,

It was definitely seen that way by Hitler, all the way. I don't know about much others.

>would have been taken seriously as a threat

At a minimum, Hitler-n-friends viewed them as a direct threat to Germany, their people, their civilization, etcetera etcetera, this really isn't a controversial view. There is no need to ignore their stated motives in favor of pretending they decided to be mean one day.

Anyway this topic isn't going to make anyone happy. Can we at a minimum agree that if its fair to take such and such books saying "hey transgenders exist" in a confrontational as political propaganda, then Nazis+Confeds+white settlers as Wyrmish as political as well? And presumably if one is not what you consider political, the other is not?

>1) the homogenisation of all of the diverse Asian countries into "Asian culture"

Main example is: lumping them together as "shame based culture" I assume?

>2) the idea that Asian people have different souls

Fair enough. ......although to be fair, wouldn't this then mean that Kingdom of Iron vs etc. etc. in Wraith is also racist, since the reason azns could become Kuei Jin pertains to the wraithly metaphysics?
>3)
I don't think it claims that, though collectively referring to them as shame based cultures vs guilt based cultures in part as to why Conscience is not the relevant virtue is a bit harsh.
>4)
Well, I think mechanically western vampires are preferable (depending on clan) but yeah. Only real counterpoint and its a weak one is that a western vampire can get to Golconda quicker.

Personally I really like them mechanically (the ultimate crossover monster) and how fully they're integrated with all sorts of mechanics and settings, but they are definitely fuckups flavor wise.

>>50161058
>"You think you're fucking burning to death, but at least it looks pretty"

Rose's idea was that you can fight through the fear and pain and be the first vampire to realize that sunlight is harmless and then you get your confidence level up and can sublimely sparkle. I think you can get over the pain and fear completely with repeat exposure.

>>50161161
>Besides, all the propaganda I've ever been exposed to has been baseless lies.

Thats not true, unless you live in a bunker you are showered with propaganda also based on truths or half truths all the time. A economic expert could go on TV during an economic crisis and "lessen the blow" saying putting emphasis on the economic growth/salaries and hand-waving inflation to serve the agenda of the current government. While what he says is "true" and it is, its also misleading.

Same with OWoD and NWoD, maybe some of the facts are true but they are presented in such a bias matter as to be nothing but propaganda.

Propaganda is just "information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."

>>50157797
>retailer POD discount
Wait, they didn't have this already?

They always had it during their kickstarters. Kickstarter campaigns being the only chance to get OPP books onto your store's shelves is an insane idea.

>>50161026
It absolutely is biased. Which Nazis are we talking about? Just Hitler, Goebbels, etc.? All the members of the National Socialist party? The SS? The Wehrmacht? All the people of Nazi Germany?

>>50156402
Hopefully Conquering Heroes will bring something of note to Beast. Still waiting on Hurt Locker to come out and Geist 2e blog posts.

>>50161086

No, you're communicating things fine. I understand your angle. You've explained it as clearly as you can.

It's just that you don't do enough with your premise to make it feel like a solid whole. You present that these Magical Girls have taken a dark pact for justice, and that they turn to a major anime fandom that has been around for decades and has made in-routes into mainstream popular culture, using the fandom's customs and traditions to communicate and cope.

Ok, cool. But how do these two halves connect? How does the fandom affect the Hunter Conspiracy, and how does the Hunter Conspiracy affect the fandom? How important is the fandom to the Hunter Conspiracy, really? What kind of influence does the show have on their operations? Do they work in independent tight-knit friend groups, like in Sailor Moon and Madoka? Are they militarized like in Nanoha and Symphogear?

You also bring up Touhou as an influence. How big and active of a fandom are we talking here? If it's something like Sailor Moon and Touhou combined, for over thirty years, the Hunter Conspiracy has either absorbed the fandom as a recruitment arm and become a kind of Mystery Cult, or the fandom sees the Hunter Conspiracy as one inner fan group in many, and has almost certainly changed into being a passive means to fight the Fae.

You present the two aspects, but you treat them as two seperate halves as opposed to an entire whole. When we take the Circles into account, it feels like a Compact got smashed with a Conspiracy, with the Conspiracy getting all the mechanical support. So, you either need to find a way to loop the knot, or you need to figure out which half of the Conspiracy you're actually more interested in, and focus on that.

>>50161448
Considering heroes were one of the worst-received parts of Beast, I'm not holding my breath.

>>50161104
>* always argue for the sake of arguing. No-one else is right, ever.
Half the posts doing that aren't even me, and I've agreed that other people are right all the time.
I'm not the one arguing semantics.
:V

>>50161113
No, no. I want to hear you discuss. What are the nWoD books uninformed about? Or at least the CofD ones.

>I am not talking about the sidebars.
You have one example of overt politics, and every political system is based on creating a less flawed version of the political systems before it. The Free Council should be a better more representative version of American Democracy because the Free Council should be the ultimate social democracy, since that's basically how they see their Magic.

>Without taking in account the social constructs that are necesary for the garou to keep going and trap them in their retrograde view and why such change while morally good is an uphill battle.
But there really aren't any. Almost every problem the Garou Nation has is self-created because they're a bunch of idiots. Also, did you even read the book? Because the litany isn't really that major a part of it. In fact, if I recall they break the Litany with their gayness and it's barely even mentioned. It's mortal gay civil rights that the book is concerned about.

>the Adamantine arrow just ceasing and conflict post just after WWII because sure, that how people work?
Oh. You've mentioned this before. Didn't someone point out that you weren't even understanding that? They basically stopped getting involved in mortal conflicts because, you know, huge fucking massive war.

>>50161161
>I don't think these two sentences belong in the same paragraph, Aspel.
True. That was more an example of how propaganda doesn't have to be evil malicious lies.
Also, citing one negative while ignoring the other is indeed misleading, and doing it for political purposes is propaganda. I mean, I literally gave you an example of propaganda that isn't baseless lies. You quoted it right there

>>50161463
Well teasers of the book said it would also feature Beasts that antagonistic towards other Beasts as well I think. Not sure if these ones will be any different than just regular ones being even more dickish than usual.

>>50161204
It's so hard to keep track of who's who on an anonymous image board.

>>50161463
All the more reason to hope. It could change that around.

>>50161454
>You've explained it as clearly as you can.
I feel like if you don't see it the same way I do, I clearly haven't explained it clearly. I mean, it works *for me*.

>You present that these Magical Girls have taken a dark pact for justice, and that they turn to a major anime fandom that has been around for decades and has made in-routes into mainstream popular culture, using the fandom's customs and traditions to communicate and cope.
I mean, it's not like it's this binary thing. The fandom exists because the Yousei Kishi exist. The two are not separate entities, they're propping each other up.

The show and spin off media are all based on the adventures of individual girls. The girls are the ones creating a lot of the fan media. People aren't actively recruited from the non-Hunter fan community. It happens, but it's not an intentional thing so much as a bonus of having this big media thing. The franchise is basically the bard song for the actual Faerie Knights, while the fandom helps them cope by giving them a way to deal with the things that have happened to them by a sort of art therapy, as well as having other people to lean on.

>If it's something like Sailor Moon and Touhou combined, for over thirty years, the Hunter Conspiracy has either absorbed the fandom as a recruitment arm and become a kind of Mystery Cult, or the fandom sees the Hunter Conspiracy as one inner fan group in many, and has almost certainly changed into being a passive means to fight the Fae.
I say Touhou because Touhou is a thing with a strong fan creative community. And, I mean, I guess you could say the Fandom itself is a Mystery Cult, but you could also say that, yes, the Hunters themselves are one small part of the fan community.

>>50160972
>2) the idea that Asian people have different souls
Aspel, how many times have we corrected you on this?

>>50161454
Also, for what it's worth while I may not change anything (because I've already rewritten the Conspiracy once, and I'm not sure if tweaking things to be more explicit is worth it) I do appreciate you talking with me about it instead of just calling me a weeaboo pedophile or whatever the other people on this website that uses underage anime girls to try to sell me pocket pussies say about people who so much as think about magical girls.

>>50161829
>Aspel, how many times have we corrected you on this?
Literally never? I don't think I've ever even brought it up (that wasn't me, by the way). But I also don't even think that's an inaccurate conclusion to draw from Kindred of the East.

But, sure, correct that poster and correct me.

Eh, anyone ever do a project merging Devil's Due with DTF?

>>50161868
Yes, you did bring it up a few weeks ago. It's stated no where in the books. What is outright stated is the fact that it has cultural reasons related to the shadowlands of that region. (KotE Companion.)

Now have the decency to know when you've been corrected and react accordingly. I know you like to get offended for other people but...

>>50161987
I think it explicitly states that you have to have a blood tie to the Middle Kingdom, so a 100% all culturally American adoptee born China could become a kuei-jin, but an adopted and totally culturally xyz American born couldn't.

So which Presidential nominee is a representative of Pentex?

>>50161209
>Main example is: lumping them together as "shame based culture" I assume?
What? No. Lumping them together as "Asian". Also, KotE is definitely written like the writers knew about Asian culture due to anime.

>Fully integrated
Man, they feel half assed and shoved in there.

>>50161987
No I didn't.
And you haven't really corrected me. In fact, doesn't that literally prove what was said?
>They don't have different souls, there's even this thing in the companion that explains why they have different souls!

>>50162121
If I decide to vote today it'll be for Hillary, but honestly Hillary would be more Pentex.
I hate the two party winner take all system.

>>50161782
>>50161868

No, you've explained it as clearly as you can. It's just that you have not put enough work in your text to make the Conspiracy into a complete whole. The problem is not your intention or your explanation, the problem lies in your work.

Obviously it works for you, but you also need to make it work for people who are reading it, since you are presenting it in a public space as a work that you want to show off to others. And in that sense, you homebrew needs more work.

You say that they are not seperate entities, but the text itself makes little effort to present it as anything more than two seperate parts held together by vague assumptions. Your out-of-text commentary not only doesn't solve this problem, it exacerbates the problem by repeating the same premise like it will be enough. It's not enough.

I could believe that the franchise could be a bard song for the Conspiracy, but again, you have established this as a thirty year old franchise that at least one generation had become familiar with. How is the Conspiracy creating most of the fan media, especially if the fandom is anything like the Touhou project, like you say?

Due to the nature of the Vigil and the setting as a whole, they can't be the majority of the fanworks. The most common entrance to the Conspiracy has to be people who were fans before their Fae encounter, with a fandom that potentially large.

Furthermore, what are these adventures? Who are these fleshed out characters? How do they use their fandom as art therapy in the plain sight of potentially millions of people? How does this Conspiracy interact with the larger fandom, considering that the "vanilla fans" outnumber them quite a bit?

You say that they prop each other up, but how? You've mentioned the basic idea but it just does not follow. You can't have both. They are either a small part, or the fandom is a mystery cult. If you can't focus on one, you need a new tying factor.

>>50162121

Just stop. Pentex is about purposeful environmental destruction for the glory of Satan, and is neither about negligence nor bullshit subsidies.

>>50162138
>Lumping them together as "Asian"

I'm not sure that they are, except by players.

>>50162195
>How is the Conspiracy creating most of the fan media, especially if the fandom is anything like the Touhou project, like you say?
Because the Conspiracy came first, and the fandom sprang up around it. It's not creating *all* of the fan media, but the people who lived the experience are doing most of it, because they lived the experience.

>Due to the nature of the Vigil and the setting as a whole, they can't be the majority of the fanworks. The most common entrance to the Conspiracy has to be people who were fans before their Fae encounter, with a fandom that potentially large.
I don't see how either of those track, though. The nature of the Vigil is that people get attacked by monsters and then fight back against them. The most common entrance into the Conspiracy is just that. You get attacked by faeries and either get saved by the Conspiracy, or you later get picked up by the Conspiracy who then offer to help you, and use the anime as an explanation of what they do and who they are.

>>50161104
>the average tg/ Anon

6/10 You build a list good for you Anon, it only took you an hour to do, be proud. I'll stick this on the fridge just for you little guy.

ku ku more

>>50161224
⊂_ヽ
＼＼ ＿
＼( •_•) F
< ⌒ヽ A
/ へ＼ B
/ / ＼＼ U
ﾚ ノ ヽ_つ L
/ / O
/ /| U
( (ヽ S
| |、＼.
| 丿 ＼ ⌒)
| | ) /
ノ ) Lﾉ__
(/___

born to sparkle, bitches

>>50162195
>Furthermore, what are these adventures? Who are these fleshed out characters? How do they use their fandom as art therapy in the plain sight of potentially millions of people? How does this Conspiracy interact with the larger fandom, considering that the "vanilla fans" outnumber them quite a bit?
The adventures are basically their Hunts. The fleshed out characters are their friends and allies. They use fandom as art therapy because they make doujinshi and fan art of their friends and fallen comrades. I'll admit I haven't really thought about how people doing the "real" fan art and people just making up their own shit in the setting interact. I mean, I imagine it's not the sort of thing where you know their names and faces. Doujinshi circles often use pseudonyms even when they're not secret monster hunters. But one of the reasons I bring up Touhou is because that's a setting where the fandom has very much controlled how a lot of characters are perceived. Imagine that, but with the Touhou characters themselves making a bulk of the doujinshi.

And I also agree that the fandom would likely be considered a Mystery Cult. Think of it as not everyone who works for Cheiron being a Hunter, or even one of the scientists cutting monsters open.

>Obviously it works for you, but you also need to make it work for people who are reading it, since you are presenting it in a public space as a work that you want to show off to others. And in that sense, you homebrew needs more work.
Also, I feel it *is* important to note that your voice is not the only one I hear. It's just the most detailed and thought out one.
I was trying to keep the write up relatively short, comparative in length to the existing Hunter write ups. Most of the sort of questions you have about the Yousei Kishi are the same kind of questions that can come up about the existing Conspiracies based on their corebook write ups, because they're not meant to be huge write ups that explain all the intricacies.

>>50161868
No, I am Aspel.

>>50162121
Hillary has ties to Monsanto, so Hillary is clearly Pentex.

Trump is a Malkavian Ghoul, and that Vitae has done something to his brain.

How the fuck did this thread turn into talk about anime and shit?

>>50162404
Jokes on you, it was me, Aspel! :V

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>>50162090
It explains literally the opposite.

>>50162138
Hardly. I even gave you the source wherein that information is contained. That one was FAQ'd within a year.

Oh, and while we're at it: http://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/49709627/#49713590

>inb4 That ain't muh post!
You are the only person that makes this argument on this board and we've caught you before. And you've been corrected before. I even cited a source that invalidates your argument.

So why are you lying, Aspel?

>>50162476
we have diverse interests. Sue me. :V

>>50162509
>So why are you lying, Aspel?

It makes me hard.

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>>50162547
>>50162502
>>50162450
No, I am!

>>50162509
That isn't my post. I'm not the only person who makes that argument. I literally replied to that post.

>As for the "Asian people have different souls!" thing? Not borne out in the lore. KotE borrowed bits from many other game lines and this is from Ascension. They came out of the Asian Hells because those hells are believed in by the cultures of the area and those beliefs are largely localized to SE Asia. It's a regional phenomenon, nothing more.
This is the closest you've come to correcting anyone about it, but that really just comes off as "Asians have different souls because culture", not proving that they don't have different souls.

You're citing things that prove the argument.

>Aspel.png
Why should I give a shit? Although I will concede that maybe if I had a trip you'd stop thinking other people are me, but I doubt it. People would just say I took my trip off for a post.
>So why are you lying, Aspel?
Why are you :V

>>50162547
>It makes me hard.

You arent aspel, everyone knows only sucking the cock of OPP devs can arouse an aspel.

>>50162509
>It explains literally the opposite.

Would you be so kind as to indicate where it says this?

I'm kinda curious about something. Has anyone ever been able to play as fetchspawn in this game?

>>50162779
Fetchspawn?

>>50162792
>>50162779
The descendant of a fetch (doppelganger made when a True Fae kidnaps someone to make a changeling) who has been fucking your wife while you've been in hell, I assume?

>>50162399
>>50162440

Except we're not talking about the intricacies of the Conspiracies, we're talking about how the Conspiracy you have presented does not have the necessary details to link one half of your concept to the other half of your concept. There is not enough that I, as a potential player or a potential ST, have enough to go on. You don't need to cram all the details in, but having a deeper idea of your concept will only help further drafts of your homebrew. You are not just making a Conspiracy, you are actively worldbuilding an aspect of the Chronicles of Darkness that a group may plug in, and you are leaving them out in the cold.

You bring up the common entrance to the Conspiracy in Vigil, but that is the problem. You're not tailoring the Vigil style to your concept, you're taking a rote Vigil concept and adding magical girl and fandom flavoring, in the hopes that it will stick. It does not. And again, this not follow with a franchise and fandom that has existed for over three decades.

And again, you bring up the Touhou fandom, but how does this fandom operate like a fandom that dances around a loose canon when it is based on a thirty year old franchise with a comic and a cartoon? How do they use the fandom as art therapy? You say that they so through fan works, but what are the fan works like? Is there a code in these fan works that allow them to describe their hunts and comrades?

If the fandom is a Mystery Cult, then you need to treat it like it is a thirty year old large fandom that has become a Mystery Cult: through intentional methods or just by the bindings of Fae magic, people who become involved in the show are eventually drawn closer to the Conspiracy, with a few ending up joining it. The rescue and explanation doesn't work when there's a good chance that there's ironic memes still going on around the property. It can't work like Cherion because of the way you established the Conspiracy.

>>50162476
It didn't "turn" into anything, its been discussing it for awhile. But its talking about anime in pertinence to a hunter conspiracy.

Its not... what I would have went with but whatever

>>50163046
How is it any different from Network Zero? Or the Night Watch?
Like, I just don't see why this is that big a problem.

>>50163093
Part of why I make these weeaboo homebrews is because I know how much people hate them. It's why I made the Nekomata

>>50162620
That's right, because I am Aspel! why are people pretending to be me? :V

>>50163249

Network Zero builds its world in that you come away knowing what it's about and how it's like to be in it, even considering the contracted word count limit. Same for the Night Watch. They are also smaller, more limited concepts.

You, on the other hand, chose a high concept, with your word count limit self-determined and intentionally made to be smaller than a regular Hunter entry but didn't include enough fleshed out details to support play. You just followed the format and checked off the boxes and hoped that the fandom and magical girl flavoring would do the work for you, even though you made little effort to tie the aspects together beyond a stated connection. That you apparently make these things to draw the ire of others doesn't exactly give me confidence that you even want to put your best effort in, even though you publically present it and claim that you're very proud of it.

You claim that it's influenced by Madoka and Nanoha, but the base idea of the fandom seems to be around a vague idea of Sailor Moon's popularity. Then you claim that it's actually closer to Touhou, but you don't seem to understand how the two fandoms differ and how to apply that to your work.

You present a grimdark Magical Girl system and society, but you don't want to actually tie that aspect back into the fandom, nor explain how it functions as art therapy for the Hunters. You mention doujinishi and fan characters as actions, but fail to explain how this helps, which is important for anyone who wants to play with the Conspiracy.

Your issue is that you have a rough draft but you tout it around like a finished product, and then try to explain the flaws away when confronted with them by just restating the text. That's not good enough, especially when you have more freedom in terms of creativity than a regular Hunter writer. Having a smaller word count means that you should have to put in more detail, not less, because your words have to be more effective than usual.

You know one obscure Madoka reference? ...failed archmages in Imperial Mysteries, they are surrounded by their own personal nightmare realm of torment and are wracked by the negative effects of paradox, and roam about seeking to absorb people into their hellish existence, strikes me as a witches reference.

>>50164402

Makes sense. We all know you can only be an OPP writer if you have watched over 100 hours of anime.

Last night I realized that in Vtr 2E you can turn yourself into a shark and swim up the drain and into someone's bath tub with 4 dots in Protean.
Surprise Bath Shark is my next character goal.
tfw you will never get to play

>>50164402
Well, it was published the year after Madoka finished airing.
So it's possible.

Either way, it's more syncronous than referential.

>>50164982
>Surprise Bath Shark
why the fuck don't they ever put pictures of awesome shit like that in the sourcebooks these days? It's just all random pieces of artwork that are a toss of a coin between pleasant to look at and a complete botched jesus mural.

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Okay. So let's say there's a character who believes completely in science. They've read all their Richard Dawkins (the early stuff, before he discovered Twitter), they're smart enough to know "A Brief History Of Time" isn't a Star Trek episode and they utterly invest themselves in the core principles of the Enlightenment.

Could such a person develop True Faith?

A believe, true and unwavering, in the power of SCIENCE?

I have not slept in 36 hours and I endorse this idea.

>>50165132
I'd imagine because it doesn't exactly fit with the theme?

You try putting a picture of a shark popping up in someone's bath on the page next to a juicy-lipped Daeva singer, and some random Vamp getting it on with some dude in a grungy bathroom.

>>50165198
>and some random Vamp getting it on with some dude in a grungy bathroom.

How would that not fit Vampire's themes and play experiences perfectly?

But yes, vampire disciplines as PCs use them would make the game very strange. Preferably with short little comic like vignettes about a little vampire chica going around charming every person she runs into until she tries it on a hunter who hits her with a hammer or something, kidnapping zoo animals with animalism so you can have a gorilla assassinate a Prince during the day time by throwing him through a window, etc.

>>50165171
Not... So much.
Scientific theory acknowledges that it can be wrong, given evidence.
Not really the "True Faith" that you'd expect, if he's a genuine believer in the scientific method.

Going off of a Facebook-Meme "SCIENCE FUCK YEAH" understanding of science though. Yeah, that could be a viable subject for True Faith.

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KNOW YOUR ASPEL. YOUR LIFE MAY DEPEND ON IT!

You will not be able to see his eyes because of the Tea-Shades, but his knuckles will be white from inner tension and his pants will be crusted with semen from constantly jacking off when he can't find a rape victim. He will stagger and babble when questioned. He will not respect your logic and coherent argument. The Aspel fears nothing. He will shitpost, for no reason, with every weapon at his command-including yours. BEWARE. Any Anon engaging a suspected Aspel in conversation should use all necessary insults immediately.

One stitch in time (on him) will usually save nine on you.

Good luck.

-Sarah Paulson

>>50165240
>>50165171
In practice, any arbitrary thing can canonically get True Faith as long as it has strong belief and you can make it sound flowery, poetic, and inspiring. A book of poetry for example was mentioned as being able to burn demons iirc.

Personally I oscillate between thinking True Faith is better for making someone a better miracle worker and thinking I just like imbued and demon thralls better.

>>50165237
>How would that not fit Vampire's themes and play experiences perfectly?
That's what I meant.
Grungy blood-sex and sexy vampire ladies are in-theme.
Surprise bath shark? Not so much.

>>50165319
Oh I apologize then.

>Grungy blood-sex and sexy vampire ladies are in-theme.

I consider myself fortunate if there is one of the latter in one of the former.

>>50162293
Yes but KotE's definition of "Asian" combined with the whole metaphysics of the Kuei-Jin is stupidly wonky as hell.

Because it expects to to believe that Chinese/Koreans/Japan, and South Asians, and even implications of Indians and Pakistanis prior to the Ravnos and Gangrel rolling up into the subcontinent, are all somehow lumped into one group that is fundamentally separated from those filthy Westerners.

>>50165458
No seriously, I don't understand -- this is just shit established in Wraith, why is that element controversial?

Or did so few people play Wraith that nobody fucking noticed that the rough western/eastern underworld divide began there?

>>50165198
>I'd imagine because it doesn't exactly fit with the theme?
>You try putting a picture of a shark popping up in someone's bath on the page next to a juicy-lipped Daeva singer, and some random Vamp getting it on with some dude in a grungy bathroom.

Ahh the good old days when WoD used to be cool.

Where can I find this Twilight vampire homebrew? It makes me curious.

>>50164982
How do you manage that?

>>50165132
Because it's stupid.

>>50165261
8/10 You found a manson pic and used the flyer the neighborhood watch put up for your sorry pasty ass. for a shitpost

>>50165592
Rose's website

>>50165516
>Or did so few people play Wraith that nobody fucking noticed that the rough western/eastern underworld divide began there?
Possibly. Or possibly because it wasn't the core premise of the game there, so no one knew about it or paid it any mind. It being in Wraith first means nothing, it's still stupid and racist.

>>50165655
I don't see it there.
Although I do see a lot of ancient posts, including one that said Cavaliers of Mars was slated for a 2013 release.

>>50149092
Not exactly WoD-related but; What exactly is Cavaliers of Mars,what kind of system does it use, is it any good, and can it hold a candle to Space:1889?

>>50165458

There were other Dark Kingdoms, often the people who went there had different "shaped" souls as well.

The Dark Kingdom of Clay had souls seperate into three parts, and all three would wander around and then reconvene for a bit.

The Dark Kingdom of Sand produced the Amenti, who were stated as having at least five parts to their souls (Ka, Ba, Khaibit, etc.).

The Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom book says that the rest of Africa has a four-fold soul.

It's implied that these changed because the Dark Kingdom of Iron "invaded" their holdings in the Shadowlands, but I don't think mechanics for that were ever given. Anyway, if all it takes for your soul to be radically transformed is whichever army has seized the area you die in, why are people who die at sea automatically Kingdom of Iron?

>>50160858
I'd like to point out that Aspel actually likes parts of Gypsies. Though I'm not going to totally throw him under the bus, he liked them in the sense of, "Yeah okay that's a alright piece of corn in a pile of shit."

>>50165743
>It being in Wraith first means nothing, it's still stupid and racist.

I don't see how its "racist" to have a western and eastern underworld. Kingdom of Iron, Kingdom of Jade. I have legitimately never heard anyone whine about Stygia as occiphobic or crackerphobic or whatever. The underworld being loosely grouped into different regions is fine. The only underworld that is "objectively" better is the Dreamtime.

Similarly, there being a distinct kind of vampire for the west and east is perfectly fine.

The only iffy element is -- whether the eligibility is based off azn DNA or, I don't know, culture/paradigm. Someone in this thread claimed its the latter, though I seem to recall a FAQ saying the opposite, but we'll get to the bottom of it sooner or later.

>>50165834

It's a Space Fantasy game heavily influenced by John Carter of Mars. It used to be powered by Wushu, I think, but now it has its own system. At least that's what I gather.

>>50165867
That being said, yeah the faq does explicitly say white people can't become kuei jin and that the important part is azn dna. Keanu Reeves is fine, however.

>>50165644
>incorrectly identifies photo
>incorrectly identifies reference
>0/10
Hahahaha, you loser, it's a schizophrenic man from New York in 1923. He told his parish priest he saw demons and angels fighting on the subway and was sent to Bellview for years of medical experimentation. This was a photo taken after substantial treatment. Manson never looked this fucked up.

Also, lrn 2 Hunter S. Thompson.

what a complete chump

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>>50166057
>historyfag

now you're just boring me

>>50161058
Alleged lesbians, they could just be good friends. Doesn't help that this was made by those dirty fucking FRENCHIES.

>>50166320
that's because you're pure boredom. Stop trying to share your feelings, you fag, this isn't AA.

>>50164472
Shit, I guess that means I can be a OPP writer... Guess it's time to make a outlaw star setting for WoD so I can fist fight with ships.

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>>50166566
oh Anon you were doing so well, how did you trip at the end there, oh don't worry it's not your fault your father made you a Historyfag, with all those late night 'Lectures'

Just do better next time. and don't forget your father didn't disown you because you're a fag who watches cartoon poon instead of finally to talk to the real thing. nonono it's because you're a NEET on the internet with no employable skills

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>>50166652
... and why not? if there's literally nothing stopping you, do it.

>>50166752
Not the guy you are responding to but my father's greatest ambition in life was to be a NEET.

>>50165856
Why would you bother pointing that out in the first place?
Also, yeah. It has some good ideas, but there is a LOT of shit in there. From both the narrative and mechanical sides. I mean, since there's no core rulebook or mortal rules, the game is sort of unplayable.

>>50165458
>>50165841
>>50165867
Anon, "different ethnicities are fundamentally different down to the soul" is pretty racist.
It's on the level of using fantasy "races" as real world analogues, what with the fantasy races literally not being human.

>>50166403
Anon, don't take this from me. I want lesbo representation.

>>50166752
>>50166320
Are you implying liking history is a bad thing?

>>50166652
Isn't that possible in Infinite Macabre?

>>50166766
Because the level of monstrous I want in games isn't what the majority of nWoD writers seem to do.

>>50166752
Where is "hate" on the emotion wheel?

>>50166839
>Anon, "different ethnicities are fundamentally different down to the soul" is pretty racist.

Hm, yeah I'll buy that.

>>50166856
In the ANGER section. Second level.
>>50166850
How is spaceships punching each other monstrous?

>>50166885
Thank you. My mood went to HAPPY->INTIMATE->PLAYFUL now

>>50166885
Well, I mean, I was making a joke. WoD in space is a crap shot.

I just want monsters man, best we get is Prommie and Demon.

>>50166905
The real monster is Man!

>>50166930
No fuck that shit, I want outwardly monstrous creatures. Not pussies that are monsters on the ideside because of a strange soul, tainted blood, or twisted minds.

>>50166995
Horrible detestful people are more interesting than big scary gribblies. A lot easier to play, too.

>>50167022

>interesting

Totally subjective, since you can do anything with a space monster that you could with a person, plus you have a space monster.

>A lot easier to play

Other way around, you need much less work to explain why a monster is attacking, while you can use whatever political intrigue BS you'd do with a human antagonist with a monster as well.

>>50167022
Yeah, because I wanna play a sociopath that has a easy time hiding his true nature because he looks normal. Heck to that my dood, easy can stuff it.

>>50167056
>Totally subjective, since you can do anything with a space monster that you could with a person
Uh... interact with human beings in social situations? Not terrify everyone?

>Other way around, you need much less work to explain why a monster is attacking
Playing a monster is a lot harder than playing something at least vaguely human.
>while you can use whatever political intrigue BS you'd do with a human antagonist with a monster as well.
Please explain to me how the shoggoth is involved in politics?

>>50167112
I don't know, I'm just not interested personally in playing a nonhuman monster that can't interact with anyone in any meaningful way besides dragging the bikini clad blonde into my murder cave.

>>50167188
Yes, because no splat deals or makes alleys with inhuman creatures. No Forsaken has ever dealt with a spirit in a meaningful way, no Mage has dealt with astral or supernal creatures, no Changeling has made alliances with the goblins. No Human ever sought out to learn of, create, control or work with something beyond their race in one of it's many forms.

>>50167188
>Uh... interact with human beings in social situations? Not terrify everyone?

Its space, dude. Any social relationship with humans or each other is plausible.

>Playing a monster is a lot harder than playing something at least vaguely human.

Far easier by any metric. They can be anything from an Id-beast to something strange and mysterious that allows you to eternally resort to the cop out of stuff like "uh, EXCUUUSE me, but alien minds from the nth dimension don't always operate like human minds!" Consistency or inconsistency is fine -- you will always have a Perfect Defense against cries of inconsistency, assuming anyone even bothers to unravel the mysteries of how a Xz'gromular Myrmidon thinks.

>Please explain to me how the shoggoth is involved in politics?

In CoC there are shoggoth lords. Easy.

>I'm just not interested personally in playing a nonhuman monster that can't interact with anyone in any meaningful way besides dragging the bikini clad blonde into my murder cave.

That's a failure of your imagination alone.

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Election day renewed my interest in Scion, particularly the Yankee Pantheon. And my reading sparked a question I want to pose to you: how do Yankee scions (and Yankee faithful?) reconcile the belief in "the Creator", that is fundamental to the founding principles of America, with the existence of the various gods?

>>50167306
Early Christians had no problems believing in Hades and Apollyon (?) so I think they would get over it. Some people think Christians would have their faith crumble from aliumz or pagan deities, but -- and I say this without any admiration or disdain -- I think its simple human nature that they would shrug it off.

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>>50167254
Part of the appeal of WoD is playing someone who has one foot in the mundane world and one foot in a freaky occult world. Playing a shoggoth doing shoggoth things isn't appealing to me. It could be interesting, but it wouldn't be Chronicles of Darkness.

>>50167277
Oh, right, you meant in space. I'm still not sure what playing a Taxxon has to do with Rock'em Sock'em space ships.

Also, I mean... playing something close to what you ARE is still easier than playing something truly alien. That's why Demon seems to me like the most difficult game to play.

>In CoC there are shoggoth lords. Easy.
You implied they'd be involved in the kind of human politics that vampires and wizards get up to.
Also shoggoth politics sounds like a terrifying concept. I didn't even think shoggoth were sentient. I thought they were just animalistic alien monsters.

>>50167306
I honestly don't really like the idea of the Yankee Pantheon. I mean, I'd be interested in something like the religion that they have in Bioshock: Infinite, but this is more of a folklore hero thing. Paul Bunyun and Pecos Bill weren't really out there siring bastard children or anything like that.

>>50165635
Read the rules for Protean 3 and Protean 4

Can Mind and Death mages generate Essence for Goetia and ghosts similar to how spirit mages can create it for Spirits?

>>50167485
Man I wish this game was way more racist then it was. I would have respected it more if they actually used slurs to refer to black people. You don't see much horrible racism after the intro sequence.

>>50167485
>Also, I mean... playing something close to what you ARE is still easier than playing something truly alien.

Other way around. It is necessarily easier to play a fictional being of your own devising than to play a human being. You can portray any element of human psychology you want and omit, exaggerate or replace any element of human psychology by hiding behind the magical nonsense phrase of, "its alien! its not like a human!" Its literary magic on tap.

>You implied they'd be involved in the kind of human politics that vampires and wizards get up to.

I've been doing a ton of reading on a setting which features, amongst other things, a vampire wizard shoggoth politican.

>I thought they were just animalistic alien monsters.

Either Derleth, CoC RPG, or something else obscure (I don't think HPL made them) introduced the concept of Shoggoth Lords, slightly weaker (in the RPG anyway) Shoggoths who are more intelligent and can take on imperfect human form. They visually remind me of the Strangers from Dark City, but more looking like obese, sweaty, and slick humans.

>>50167534
It's funny because all my friends think the racism was too gratuitous and cartoony. I frankly loved it. I liked Infinite, even in spite of its numerous flaws and stupid middle twist and shitfuck annoying final battle and trimmed down mechanics and...

>>50167485
Exactly why I said it was a good reason for me not to try to be a CoD writer. People like playing the kinda monster I find the least cool.

>>50167534
the jew pics are funny tho

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>>50165458
Philologically speaking, it follows Language groups. Semitic and Indo-European speaking ethnicities have cainites, Sino-Tibetan and Japonic speakers have Kuei-Jin. This makes sense when you realize that the world wasn't always as interconnected as it is now and there were major geographical barriers (The Himalyas and Hindu kush mountain ranges, anyone?) that kept the world apart for long stretches of time. Different cultures have different myths and folklore, so deal with it.

>>50166839
>>50166866
>>50166839

Aspel, could you please just shut the fuck up? And the rest of you, enough of this fucking bullshit. This is "The Telephone Game" taken to "All space marines are castrated" levels.

>Q: How come only people from Asia can become Kuei-jin? A: The Kuei-jin "experience" is a long-standing part of the cultural paradigm. Regardless of the veracity of the stories about the Wan Xian, the beliefs of the supernatural community in Asia shaped the Kuei-jin into their present fashion. This underlying belief doesn't exist in other countries, and thus, nobody there becomes Kuei-jin. Besides,you can always Rise after becoming a wraith, so what do you care?In game terms, this means that almost all Kuei-jin characters should come from Asiatic cultures, and should be at least partially of Asiatic descent, with a modicum of belief in the supernatural and superstitions of the east. White boys don't cut it, even if they did grow up in Beijing -- they aren't from the blood of the Middle Kingdom, and their families do not carry the burdens of the east's supernatural world.

There you are. Nothing about the soul and they outright state that if you take a guy from Shanghai and plop him down in Two-Blondes, Arkansas then he can't rise after his death, specifically because you took him out of his cultural paradigm. Asians can also be mages

This is in line with Wraith lore which, let's be honest here, the Kuei-Jin are more of a subset of.

>>50160637
Fuck off, >>>/pol/

>>50167567
Just because it's a fictional thing of your own devising doesn't mean that it's going to be good or reasonable or coherent. I mean, people already use the "it's what my character would do" excuse as it is, and they're not even playing shoggoths.

>I've been doing a ton of reading on a setting which features, amongst other things, a vampire wizard shoggoth politican.
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but [need to know more intensifies]

>>50167534
Same here man, I wish there'd just been more to Columbia, maybe spending time in the ghetto's proper.

>>50167485
Wait are you Aspel and saying you find demon hard?

>>50167611
But they're specifically stating the opposite, that its your blood and family that matters.

>>50167633
>Just because it's a fictional thing of your own devising doesn't mean that it's going to be good or reasonable or coherent.

Nope, but nonhumans are nonetheless automatically more flexible to write for than humans.

>[need to know more intensifies]

Tremere/Saulot/Tzimisce. Sounds like a good premise for a sitcom.

>>50167485
>That's why Demon seems to me like the most difficult game to play.

Demons not only don't need to be played with any kind of consistent personality but I can't even tell how much of a consistent personality they're *supposed* to have.

>>50167611
Different cultures have different myths and folklore, yes. And this game literally within it's mechanics says that people of different ethnicities are fundamentally different beings, down to the soul. You can argue that it doesn't have to do with the soul, but it clearly does. There's also nothing in that quote that says someone from outside of Asia can't be a Kuei-jin.

Like... the thing you're quoting is WHY we're saying that it's racist. That there's an in-setting reason for it doesn't change that fact. That's just the Thermian Argument. Asians are fundamentally different. Their culture and nature is just too exotic and alien.

You're literally proving people right.

>>50167654
>Wait are you Aspel and saying you find demon hard?
Yes?
I mean, first off, Demons are fundamentally unemotive. I mean, I know I've got the whole Tobias thing going on and I sometimes wonder if I'm making the socially appropriate facial gestures, but I still display emotions and I still let emotion colour my dialogue. How do you play a character that not only can lie perfectly, but can perfectly control their external actions? Especially if you're playing it at the table, face to face, as opposed to over the internet?

Demons aren't even necessarily alien, but they still seem really difficult to play.
Also I feel like a lot of demon-demon interaction would be boring unless they had a cultural agreement to at least pretend to have emotions to each other. Sort of like those aliens from Mass Effect that state how they're speaking, since they don't have tone.

So this Aspel guy is basically your king, right?

>>50167849
I assume so.

>>50167711
That's implied when it says that they don't occur outside of the middle kingdom. Cherry picking is really easy to spot, by the way. The FAQ says this explicitly.

And no where does it say that they have different souls. Really, the Kuei-Jin are just a cross between a risen and a vampire, down to having a shadow like any wraith and since Asians awaken like anyone else and can become Kindred like anyone else.

>>50167656
And they're also stating that they don't occur outside of the middle kingdom. Occam's razor, it's a metaphysical thing rather than a soul thing.

>>50167905
Occam's Razor is that if they explicitly mention x skinned people cannot kuei jin regardless of beliefs or location due to blood, then its blood.

>>50167886
The Kuei-jin literally have different souls, though.

>>50167905
No they didn't. They said Asiatic Culture and descent. Asian people are literally different, so long as they haven't been corrupted too much by gweilo.

>>50167875
There was a peasant revolt at one point but they were peasants so they folded after meeting hard steel

>>50167939
So where does it say they have literally different souls?

Can you summon Supernal beings in the Astral?
Would it be possible to have to have an Astral Artifact?

>>50168679
In the mechanics of being a Kuei-jin?

So, a buddy of mine invited me to join a Werewolf LARP, and I'd be playing a Galliard Tale-Singer? Obviously that's a social-oriented character, right? Other than the obvious speccing in social stuff, what else should I be aware of? I was thinking of a newly turned raver kid that gets hyped up with his new furriness and inspires everyone else to be even more awesome.

>>50168730
Can I get a qoute or something? I don't own the book.

>>50167939
>The Kuei-jin literally have different souls, though.
they do not
their culture forms theyr regional underworld
just like in geist

>>50168974
Which culture is the mash up of Greek, Egyptian, and Aztec?
Which culture is a giant library?
Which culture is the antebellum American West?
Which culture is a high security prison center run by a Chinese god?
Geist doesn't have cultural underworlds.
And even if Kuei-jin didn't have weird souls, there's still that whole "you have to be ethnically Asian" aspect.

>>50169030
>Which culture is the mash up of Greek, Egyptian, and Aztec?
greek, egyptian and aztec
>library
greek
>antebellum american west
one of the 1000 hells
>geist doesn't have cultural underworlds
it indeed does

>>50169030
>And even if Kuei-jin didn't have weird souls, there's still that whole "you have to be ethnically Asian" aspect.
you just have to be raised there
hmong can be kuei jin

>>50169093
I said mash up. How does Geist have culture specific underworlds if Mictlan has Xolotl, Persephone, and Mictlantechuitli?
Just because it's called "The Athenaeum" doesn't make it Greek.
What about the Grave Dream? The Junkyard? The Killing Fields? Oppia? The Forge of Orcus? What cultures do these represent?

>you just have to be raised there
>hmong can be kuei jin
No, you don't have to be raised there, you need Asian blood.