/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>How do you deal with masquerade breaches?

I like the idea of a "Hierarchy of Sins" for Masquerade breaches, inspired by VtM Bloodlines.

Location based Masquerade stat: Then it signifies how dangerous and hunter infested the locale will become.

Or if you use an individual based Masquerade stat: Then it signifies how well that character is known as a liability. It may signify how much hunters have geared up for him per se.

>>50135652
>How do you deal with masquerade breaches?
There are never any large-scale consequences, there are too many powers that be with a vested interest in the status quo.
However smaller scale stuff, like attracting Hunters, pissing off other Supernaturals and so forth are problems that the PCs have to deal with.

Even then, that'll only be for comparatively large scale shit.
Let someone see you munching on some guy's neck? Nobody's going to believe him, and it's likely he won't even say anything.
Step out of your portal in a closet to see a Sleeper who would have sworn it was empty 10 seconds ago? Who's he going to tell?

The CofD core book acknowledges that the mundane people of the world by and large know (or have at least once seen evidence) that spooky shit is out there. But they put it out of their minds, so that they can live a life without constant fear of the darkness.

If the players can pull off a full cover-up, they get it. Things are hunky dory. If they can't or won't, it gets covered up, but it's never quite as sturdy as it could be, and parts of the event becomes a local urban legend.

So I'm thinking about making a Lasombra with a strong christian faith (Maybe even give them true Faith) and I was wondering something: How would a religious Lasombra justify using Obtenebration, a power of the abyss and very much not something humans should be exposed to and Domination, a power that takes away the free will of people that god granted them?

>>50136508
depends on what path they're on.

>>50136526
Heaven, of course.

>>50136561
>path
>heaven

>>50136568
Right, I dunno, I'd have to look at paths again to chose. But for right now she's going to be on the road of heaven.

Hey, quick question. Which books have relevant information pertaining to abyssal entities in relation to mage 2e?

>>50136663
Summoners might be a good place to start.

>>50136663
>In relation to mage 2e?
Mage core is only fully relevant book.

If you want more ideas about the kinds of forms they can take, the Intruders - Encounters with the Abyss is pretty good.

>>50136526
There aren't really very many paths besides Humanity that goes along with, 'good christian.'

Why are promethean so weak in comparison to other supernaturals in CofD?

Short of having them fight in a power plant, I don't see how you could have a Promethean fight anything much tougher than a human without getting chumped or relying on the handful of uncommonly stronger alembics.

>>50137073

That's part of the point, I feel. Promethean's more about learning the human condition and surviving long enough to make something of it as opposed to full on monster fights. They can still kick some serious ass, though.

>>50137028
its almost as if you're trying to shoe horn a monster into some religious roll it wont fill.

>>50137073
>>50137115
Prometheans are tanky motherfuckers, what are you talking about?

>>50137554
Compared to a human maybe

They're fragile as shit compared to Vampires and Werewolves though.

>>50137477
Looks like Road of Heaven, Humanity and Path of Redemption are my best chances. So not that hard to fit them into the religous role that is super understandable in a game with God in it

>>50137554

I figured we were talking about super to super power scales. On their own they're pretty poweful, especially when you start pumping Pyros.

>>50137594
>Fragile as shit compared to vampires
Yeah, because prommies go into torpor once they hit full lethal damage.

>>50137705
They also take essentially twice as much damage, can't spend their juice to heal, and don't have a soaking ability like resilience.

>>50135652
>How do you deal with masquerade breaches?

In no way, people just dont wanna believe in the supernatural so the breaches cover themselves.

>>50137594
>>50137758
Prometheans don't get knocked down and don't die when they're killed. Their powers are also pretty cheap (3 Pyros for a whole scene of use?) and all come with a passive ability.

Thinking of not including Rank 6+ Disciplines for my home VtM game among other changes I'm making.
They make things seem too "superhero-ish" (you can literally HULK SMASH with Potence and do the silly "random object as bullet" thing that the Flash does) and when my players see that they start actively questioning the purpose of the Masquerade when Methusalahs can punch holes in tanks, without getting into the psychic X-Men bullshit the mental Disciplines allow.

Does that unbalance the game at all?

>>50137854
99.9999999999999999% of VtM games should never involve characters that are even *capable* of learning disciplines of that magnitude anyway.

>>50137854
Yeah, VtM had something of an identity crisis in the mid-90's and became something of a Vampire Superhero Game, resulting in some pretty silly shit.

>>50137886
That's definitely true of mine as well, but one of my players noted that a Nosferatu Methusalah could tear apart an entire building with his bare hands and then make everyone not realize he was doing it even as he WAS doing it with his Obfuscate crap on top of it.

He questioned the point of hiding from humans in the fluff at all with that kind of power and the only thing I could think of is that human armed militaries might be able to destroy said ancient vampires, which STILL might not be true because it in combination with mental powers they could do things like stop anyone from even WANTING to kill them while they ripped them to pieces. I guess you could carpet bomb a city but you'd have to even locate the Elder for that first, which might not even be possible with further usage of their mental powers.

>>50137964
Well, regardless, it shouldn't mess with anything to kick those powers out. Elders still have some heavy shit and a lot of blood to power it with.

>>50138130
That's what I figured.
That way large numbers of clever or well-armed younger vampires could conceivably take down an elder, giving lend to actual reasons for them using influence and spies.

>>50135652
>How do you deal with masquerade breaches?

A combination of the cynicism of a generation raised on top notch special effects and internet hoaxes, overlapping layers of conspiracy and secret cabals with a vested interest in keeping a lid of the truth and ever-vigilant for leverage over the undead (even the Mortals play the endless game), and finally, the anxious paranoia of Princes demanding players clean up their own messes or die in the attempt.

OP, please stop linking Aspel's pastebin. It just fucking encourages the stupid shitstain.

>>50136508
>Obtenebration

Divinity takes many forms, and we may never know all of it's mysterious ways. All things are servants of God, even Demons serve His purpose in their own way. These shadows I call upon are the Darkness that choked Egypt in vengeance for the slaves, and the Darkness that shall fall when the Seventh Seal is opened. For just as His love and mercy are great, so is His wrath.

>Domination
(tricky... but let's try)
I am but a tool of His divine Will, that heaven-sent command which cannot be refused or resisted. It is not my Will that they obey, but His and His alone. I have been granted this authority for but one purpose; to further His kingdom on earth. I must resist using this power for my own selfish needs... (morality check for "selfish" uses of Dominate)

>>50137854
It fucking ruins it. What's the point of munching your way up the generations if you can't get to 7th and come up with a custom power?

>>50139006
You can already make custom powers with combination disciplines.

>>50135652
Would WoD work as a ruleset for an RPG based in The Secret World? Or is it too tied to its own lore to work?

>>50139117

If you stick to Mortal as your basic framework, you should be fine. You might need some custom Conditions depending on how hard you're going with The Filth (that was their name right? It was a million years since I played that game), but the regular Supernatural merits should cover most of the magic in that game.

>>50139117
Either WoD or CoD could work ruleset for TSW, they're more or less the same concept when all things are considered. Besides, it's never that hard to seperate the lore from mechanics.

>>50138905
Thanks man, those are some good answers, I'll think on them.

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>consider joining local oWoD vampire larp
>Revised Mind's Eye Theatre
>infernalists, sabbat and anarchists everywhere
>tfw

What can be done?

>>50139308
TAlk to the... Grand larper or whatever and see if there's a place for a moral charecter, probably a antagonist for all the bad boys. If not that, then play a bad boy and if not THAT... Well, go find a new group.

>>50139087
wat

Is that a v20 thing?

>>50139269
You're welcome. I'm glad that my Catholic upbringing is useful for something other than a guilt complex. :)

>>50139308
Get some other new players and join the game as the Sabbat Inquisition. Nobody expects the Sabbat Inquisition!

Am I reading Requiem's ruleset right? If four PC vamps walk into a room with four NPC vamps in it, all four PCs and all four NPCs have to make a resolve check to keep from flipping out for each vampire in the other group. That's literally thirty-two rolls just to determine if your audience with The Prince to discuss the issues of the night turns into a fucking bloodbath.... how does Kindred society even function???

>>50135883
>an individual based Masquerade stat: Then it signifies how well that character is known as a liability. It may signify how much hunters have geared up for him per se.
I can dig it

>>50139628
That's 1e. It's stupid. Pretty much everyone ignored it. 2e is better.

>>50139867
Besides for the beat system being bad and the new mortality stat being shit.

>>50139896
>Beat system is bad
If you like exponential experience costs for advancement, handing all of that off to the GM and avoiding the integration with Exceptional Successes and Conditions. Sure.

Only problem is, I like Beats, Conditions and Tilts.

>>50139867
Oh. Ok.

Second query, does Stamina actually count for anything? Vampires don't tire or get sick, and there's no soak rules anywhere. It seems.... redundant.

>>50139978
Yeah, cause I really want to have to game a system to get exp and put even more work on my table.

>>50139986

You'll need it for other physical rolls, but in general, it's there to serve as a basis for your Health stat.

>>50140169
>game a system
You get points for aspirations, you get beats for drama, you get a beat each session, you get a beat when you resolve a condition, you get a beat when you suffer under a condition, and you get a beat when you opt to make a situation worse for yourself and turn a normal failure into an dramatic failure.

You are making the game more interesting, in exchange for character advancement.
I see nothing wrong with that.

>>50140201

I agree, I like the overall Beat system. I think my only issue with it is that the fractional nature of it feels unnecessary, but I figure that's the necessary evil of trying to make conversion over from a exponential XP system work.

>>50140201
>you get a beat when you opt to make a situation worse for yourself and turn a normal failure into an dramatic failure.

I don't see how being forced to either have a klutz who advances in strength, or a successful character who gets left behind the rest of the party, makes the game interesting. It fairly hobbles the enjoyment factor for me.

Also, the fact that literally anything, regardless of how tough it is, can be bought to it's knees with a can of bear mace.

Third, that aforementioned can of bear mace can be yours for one shitty dot in resources.

Why spend any time developing powers at all? Why bother with any other weapons? Bear mace kills mortals like a fucking freight train, it even brings werewolves and Elder vampires to their knees and allows you to curbstomp them with impunity.

>what is game balance?
>baby, don't hurt me

>>50140265

I don't know, man, you ever been hit by Bear Mace? My buddy was and now he has to live without a face. There's just no face there, just a giant perfect hole with a dark void where it should be. Fucking Bear Mace, man.

>>50140265
It gets far worse if anyone bothers to use Armory. CS gas is listed as giving a -5 to dice rolls AND resistance checks. Given that stat is usually 1 - 5, this makes a cheap weapon into a death sentence.

The book also says dogs are immune to CS gas, what the actual fuck??

>>50140350

Dog watches over her descendants, even now.

In Chrud, there are no damage rolls.

Worse, the amount of damage one creature does with 4 dice is outdone by two mediocre characters with 2 dice apiece and a bonus.

Therefore, there is literally nothing in the Chronicles of Darkness that cannot be defeated by 36 intellectually challenged school children with sharp sticks.

>>50140265
Then you focus on the rest, conditions, aspirations, drama.

Plus if it's that much of a problem your GM can always just use Group Beats, whereby beats are pooled, and evenly divided at the end of the session.

Plus if your aim is to play a "successful character" then I think you're mistaking an RPG for a competitive sport.

>>50140423
> Therefore, there is literally nothing in the Chronicles of Darkness that cannot be defeated by 36 intellectually challenged school children with sharp sticks.
Like... IRL?

>>50140488
Yeah pretty much, retard strength is horrifying.

>>50140423
Wilful ignorance of the system only reflects worse on you.

Such individuals would likely be forced to roll a single chance dice, which have a 1/10 chance of success.
Then even should they manage to succeed, the target could still be wearing armour, of which General Armour soaks damage directly.

So assuming a Flak Jacket, and sharp sticks having a damage of 0 (comparative to a knife).
There's a 0.3% chance of each aforementioned retarded child hurting such a person.

Having to succeed with a 10 on their chance die, then a 10 again for exploding, then an 8, 9, or 10 to have dealt 3 damage, getting past General Armor.

>>50140444
>Plus if your aim is to play a "successful character" then I think you're mistaking an RPG for a competitive sport.

My aim is this funny thing my country calls "fun".

Playing an underpowered virtual nobody with no real reason to do anything except be miserable and fail at life; suffer a series of shitty, awful experiences (which is all Conditions are, at the end of the day); have failures not just fail but blow up in my face because that's the only way my character OR the entire party can advance; and finally, climb to the top of Kindred society when they don't control the government or anything of note and the only prize for Princehood is a key to a private bathroom; none of this is in any way fun to me, and I'm mystified that it could be fun to anyone. You might as well combine all the splats and call it "Depression: the Wallowing".

>>50140525
Except the rules explicitly give bonuses for attacking in groups, not everyone wears a flak jacket, and the flak jacket can only soak a certain number of attacks a round, right?

>>50140525
How is it fun, at all, if you can already largely predict the outcome from the number of dice being rolled? The whole point of rolling dice is randomization!

>>50140573
I think you're massively overestimating the effects of exceptional failures, successes and conditions.

Conditions are usually minor effects, like a -2 to certain rolls until you fail one, or offering you the chance to lose some character agency (losing, mind you, you still choose) in exchange for a beat.

Plus, you generate conditions from dramatic failures AND successes.
So you kick that fuckwit's ass super hard? You get a condition which is POSITIVE, and gives you a BEAT when you resolve it.
Plus, should you take a risk (which can make games fun) and fail, then you just make that slightly worse with a short-lived minor penalty to yourself, in exchange for a beat. And a condition which provides ANOTHER beat when fulfilled.

It's really easy to get Beats in CofD, without even putting yourself at significant risk of harm. And that's a fundamental part of the system. They don't TRY to make conditions something you'd actively want to avoid, they want you to use them.

Really, they have next to no teeth whatsoever for a passably made character.

>>50140612
That's the thing, forecasting is not representative of outcomes. But the fact that you can to some extent predict probability is not bad.

One of those kids could roll really well, and stab the guy right in the fucking eye, dealing enough damage to get him into Aggravated, and deal the Blinded tilt for their dramatic success, leaving him permanently blinded.

>>50139006
You could instead drop a system that clearly isn't suited to that sort of play and instead get any number of other superhero systems that allow you to do the same thing without such arbitrary limitations, up to and including having the character be a vampire?

Just a thought.

>>50140525

Just for the record, 10s on a Chance Die don't explode in CofD 2e.

>>50140638
It still sounds like utterly unneccesary mechanics, leading to either excessive book keeping and anally retentive notes, or the ST ponying up $20 for the Condition cards. If they have "next to no teeth" then they have no point or impact, just free xp for giving up agency and letting your character's theme song become "I Love Fucking Up" by Frenzel Rhomb.

>>50140752
Huh. Good to know.

>>50140753
Well then I'd suggest you look to a completely different system, as what you want is clearly not in the design purview of CofD.

>>50140525
1 Werewolf, Garou Form
Relevant Stats:
Stamina: 3 (5 with Garou)
Resolve: 3
Composure: 3
Willpower 6
Size: 5 (6 With Garou)
Health: 8 (11 With Garou)
Armor: 0

9 Children, Human Mortal
Relevant Stats:
Dexterity: 1
Strength: 1
Composure: 1
Resolve: 1
Firearms: 0 (-1 Dice)
Weapon: BBgun (+1)
Willpower: 2


Round 1:
Garou1: Werewolf looks at children.

Children1 <--> 12: Roll 1 (Dex) - 1 (Firearms) + 1 (BBgun) + 3 (Willpower): 4 Dice

9 x 4 = 37 Dice, average Success per 3 dice, 12 Successes.

Werewolf takes 12 Lethal, dies.

>>50140638
>I think you're massively overestimating the effects of exceptional failures, successes and conditions.

I notice you said nothing about "Playing an underpowered virtual nobody with no real reason to do anything except be miserable and fail at life..." or "...climb to the top of Kindred society when they don't control the government or anything of note and the only prize for Princehood is a key to a private bathroom."

>>50140811
Oh, I never got past reading the source material. I'll never run a game, let alone play one now. The mood, the lack of direction, the lack of purpose, the confusing mechanics have all put me off, and you've just convinced me to give it up for good by confirming all my worst suspicions.

I'm sorry guys, I really tried to like Requiem, I really did. I even got the dice (red granite, numbers 1 - 7 in black, 8 - 0 in grey). It's just too disappointing after the grandeur, majesty and relative simplicity of the old world of darkness.

But hey, at least Requiem isn't Rolemaster. Never seen a book that was almost entirely percentile charts before or since.

>>50140824
Umm. No.
First, BB guns deal Bashing damage, not Lethal.
Second, full lethal doesn't kill you. It puts you in DYING, yes, but it doesn't kill you. The werewolf will regenerate the damage and still be standing, thus reduce the incoming damage the next turn by a significant amount. (Killing one kid, probably more considering 1e fighting styles).
Third, the Werewolf will probably win initiative, considering that at MINIMUM it beats the kids by 3, which is a significant amount
Fourth, Werewolves also have armour in Gauru form, reducing the incoming dice by nine (one each)
Fifth, 9*4 is 36, not 37.
And if you use 2e rules, this applies instead:
First, weapons no longer add skill modifier, so the kids would roll one die.
Second, Werewolves apply defence against Firearms, so the kids would roll significantly less.
Third, the Werewolf would be completely unharmed by the second turn, due to Gauru regeneration.

Oh, and you mis-spelled Gauru.

>>50140948
Bleh. One die less, I meant to type. But you get me.
Anyhow, all this also hinges on that the kids can fight at all. Lunacy will leave the kids as urine-soaked wrecks of fear.

>>50140824
That's not Chronicles of Darkness hombre
1. Firearms don't give bonus dice any more, so that dice pool is 3
2. In Dalu or Gauru, you get Defence against ranged attacks, so odds are Defence 3 (not unreasonable, assuming no Athletics) will fuck your dice pool down to 0
3. Even assuming you can ignore Defence, that's 8.1 lethal, which wouldn't be enough to completely fill their Lethal track (11)
4. Gauru regenerate all Bashing and Lethal each turn
5. If they pass their Lunacy test, they suffer -2 to all tests. If they fail their Lunacy test, they flee like the idiot children they are
6. Filling Lethal track doesn't kill them, filling Aggravated? That does.

So no, it doesn't.

>>50140967
B-but muh lunacy, armor and regeneration...
Gauru gonna run like a dog he is.

>>50140983
Why should he?

So what ability is even used to disguise yourself as someone in 20th edition vampire?

>>50141004
We are playing Innocents.

>>50141033
Werewolves kill children all the time, who cares.

>>50141033
Then don't use a Forsaken as an enemy.
That's like saying "The train will stop, because I'm standing in front of it."

>>50141058
I'm a player character, everyone nows that makes me immortal

>>50141014
Do you mean Ability ability, or Discipline ability?

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>>50141054
>>50141054
You're on the EDGE of EDGINESS
And I'm hanging on a moment with you, Anon.

>>50141886
ability ability, I don't want to have to spend a fucking point of blood every time I want to make a disguise. best I can find is a secondary ability that appears to have been dropped from Revised/20th versions of any gameline.

my friends dont really go for the horror RPG genre
>fucking pussies
but someone had the idea of adapting the core WoD book for a StarGate RPG
any advice, we have the humans, goa'uld and tok'ra worked out pretty well, but that about it

>>50140573

In my experience nobody takes the dramatic failure for beats ever, so nobody takes extra beats to advance so is a non issue really.

I am thinking of maybe giving a beat for exceptional successes just to get things moving.

>>50141896

And what might the source of this image be?

>>50142043
Is there any reason for that?
You've already failed, it's basically meaning you get a Condition worth two beats.

>>50142060
Because it means harming you in the short and possibly long term. Actions have consequences man.

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>>50142058
No idea, best of luck checking

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenna_Coleman#Filmography

Probably not Dr Who

>>50142076
But it's just a condition, and a non-persistent one at that.

>>50142060

In my groups case they come from D&D so they relate dramatic failure with critical miss (double 1s from the d20) no matter how many times i explain it to them they want a failure to not have any extra consequences at all cost.

>>50142084
And a massive failure at either a physical, mental or social task.

>>50141925
Eh, I'd include it under "Performance", which was a Talent, I believe. It's supposed to include dramatic theatre presentations, which in turn would incorporate theatre make-up and costume choices.

>>50142131
Gonna eat shit man, lasombra probably suck at making disguises themselves. Fucking Curse.

>>50142095
Yeah, that's the problem. Still trying to communicate that to my group without them seeing it as irrelevant.

>>50142118
From which the only additional effect is the Condition.

>>50141988
Did you know this was a thing?
https://www.scribd.com/doc/50111593/d-amp-d-d20-Aeg-2200-Stargate-Sg-1-Rpg

It includes all the hard fluff you'll need (how wormholes work, ancient technology, alien ships, SGC weapons...), as well as a d20 framework based on Spycraft you can use for comparisons against your own system.

Apologies if you've seen it before, I certainly only found out about by accident while googling SG-1 trivia.

>>50142058
a BBC Four television adaptation of the John Braine novel, "Room at the Top", I think.

>>50142060
People like their characters to actually succeed at what they do.

I don't understand why so many CoD players have cracked a fat over the idea of their players losing out horribly and constantly getting shat on in life. Not even the Red Dwarf RPG had that level or emphasis on failure, and the entire show was based on the main characters getting screwed in under 45 minutes.

>>50142168
nah i hadnt heard of that, thanks though

we thought of using the WoD system since we are all familiar with it, and prefer dicepools in general over D20

>>50140753
>It still sounds like utterly unneccesary mechanics, leading to either excessive book keeping and anally retentive notes, or the ST ponying up $20 for the Condition cards.

In actual play, neither of those things are true, with the caveat that Group Beats is better than the normal Beats system and should really be the default.

>>50142147
And you know, that dramatic failure that probably made someone hate you, made you make a critical mistake in your studies/investigation or caused you to hit a passerby/ally.

>>50140753
The idea that consistently defined conditions causing more bookkeeping, instead of owod's nameless and inconsistently defined conditions, is totally alien to me.

>>50140824
Apart from the fact you got a bunch of the rules wrong, what actually happens is:

The werewolf rolls for down & dirty combat, making a single Strength + Brawl roll versus the children's Dex + Firearms, and terminates the entire lot of them.

Taking a dramatic failure is a once per scene or so option that when executed properly can replicate the huge misfortunes that one would expect to happen in a horror game. They're fine by me.

>>50142095
>>50142147

You don't seem to be grasping this basic premise; the idea of a character that a player is heavily invested in "choosing" to fail feels inherently false and utterly shitty, and the payoff of a single XP doesn't make up for the feeling of coming up short. People play these games to escape their miserable lives, not roleplay another miserable bastard that has it even worse than they do. The very concept is distasteful to your players. Listen to them, or lose them.

>>50142221

Maybe they shouldn't play a horror game, then.

>>50142141
I wonder what it would take to enchant a black mirror to reflect even a Lasombra? They're a historical artifact as well as being thematically appropriate. A reflection through a mirror darkly, as it were. Looking at your own reflection in one is creepy as hell.

>>50142221
You've never encountered the Call of Cthulhu player base, I see.

>>50142221
I gotta agree with the others, you don't play WoD/CoD to be a super cool dood, some failure and misery is kind of a foundation of the gameline.

>>50142221
>Choosing to fail
You've already failed. You're merely choosing to take a temporary negative penalty on yourself as a result of that, in order to get experience.

Also I love playing a character that gets kicked while their down.
People who want to play a power trip game can fuck right off to D&D.

>>50142197
Yeah, stick with what you know for the most part. You might have to make allowances for the fact that SG-1 is a bit louder, more rambunctious and with far bigger guns than the WoD normally has, in order to achieve that cinematic level of two-fisted action.

There is one mechanic I'd keep (and modify, obviously) from the d20 SG-1 game, and that's the system they had for "inspiration". Essentially there were certain activities characters could do to think for a few hours (there was a games laptop equipment package that allowed this, for example) which then allowed a roll for a eureka moment. It was a way for utterly stumped players to have a brainwave, just like Carter.

>I have an idea, sir
>AAWWW YEAAAHHHH SHITS ABOUT TO GET REAL ESSE

>>50142191
"Cracked a fat"?
Also, you seem to mistake minor, short term setbacks with long term ultimate failure.

When I watch a movie or a TV show, I'm less interested in the main character never so much as getting dirty.

>>50142221
>and the payoff of a single XP

Actually is a 1/5 of an XP. Switching a failure for a dramatic failure gives you a beat and you need 5 of those for 1 XP.

I dont disagree with the rest though, the failure engine can put some people off and saying some snooty bullshit like this

>>50142240
>Maybe they shouldn't play a horror game, then.

Smells of aspel.

But on the other hand the "failure engine" is not that big of a deal, if players dont take it then it becomes a non-issue.

>>50142198
>In actual play, neither of those things are true,
Then how do you keep track of them all, when the party is 2 -3 Beats a piece? I've had sneaky players fudge their HP in AD&D and this seems eerily similar in it's scope for abuse.

>>50142221
I'm always surprised that people in these threads talk about not liking that mechanic. "Fail to gain rewards later" is a pretty common mechanic in a lot of systems. Fate gives you Fate Points if you allow the GM to play up one of your traits in a negative way (or if you do it yourself), which can be used for bonuses later, like altering the scene. Savage Worlds does the same with Bennies.

In Mutants & Masterminds one of the main way of getting Hero Points is by doing things like letting yourself get captured by the villains or playing up genre conventions that put you at a disadvantage. It's a system designed to encourage you to take minor setbacks in exchange for greater narrative control later.

The only unique thing CofD does is tie it to Experience growth, but even that's not that strange. Off the top of my head, Monsterhearts 2 is tying experience to failed rolls. Shadowrun doesn't go all-in with it, but GMs are encouraged to give more Karma if you go out of your way (particularly to help others). Even nWoD 1e gave you more Experiences if you played up your Flaws; they've just got a mechanical system to that now.

>>50142277
>Smells of aspel.
>Implying I'm the only person who has ever said "play a different system if you don't like the one you're playing".
I mean, Atamajakki literally has it as her forum signature. It's not exactly an uncommon sentiment, and it's a truism at that.

>>50142287
I find it easy as GM to just note it down whenever someone gets a beat. We're literally talking making a single mark on a piece of paper or a single stroke on a keyboard when it happens. It's easier than making a note of a change in hit points when characters smack an NPC, and in a game like D&D you end up doing that all the goddam time.

Other alternates I've encountered include using beads or tokens, so whenever a Beat happens you just chuck one in the pot, which is even easier, or having a d20 per character with the top number set to the number of Beats they have, which seems risky to me as that's always likely to get knocked and then you have to try and remember how many you had.

I suppose you could have the players note their own Beats, and I don't generally game with people who I have to worry about abusing that sort of thing.

>>50142287
Do you check their XP after each session and budget their advances?
RPGs go on the honor system man.
Some people will "forget" they didn't get an extra point so they can buy the thing they want.
And bar doing meticulous and frankly worthless bookkeeping, there's nothing you can do about it.

Alternatively though, you can do what the Mage 2e core book suggests and have little stones or something for beats, and hand them out in the session.
Same with printing off Condition cards.

>>50142258

>People who want to play a power trip game can fuck right off to D&D.

Pretty arrogant, especially since success rates in WoD are way, WAY higher than in D&D.

>>50142337
Then your GM isn't throwing challenging enough stuff at you.

>>50142337
And yet according to some people here, failure is the problem with ChroD.

>>50142240
>>50142255
>>50142258

It doesn't matter whether you agree with me or not. It doesn't matter whether you think Beats are going to save the planet from cultural disaster or not. All that matters is that you're ignoring your players comfort levels. Yes, some failure will happen in games. Yes, misery is a part of the gamelines, but so is hope, victory and personal achievement, if not over threats without then demons within. Your players are obviously unsettled with a mechanic that rubs their nose in their failures constantly until they fail a second time.

Only a shitty storyteller ignores their players comfort zones - the social contract forming the negotiation of those boundaries is a fundamental part of collaborative storytelling and always has been. Why do you refuse to accept your players want this about as much as Predator's Taint?

>>50142349
Fortunately the system works just fine even if his players don't want to make use of dramatic failures, and he isn't forcing them to use it as it's something that's the player's choice to make.

So I guess it's actually all fine.

>>50142324
No he doesn't, it says to call him Lex.

>>50142271
>"Cracked a fat"?

A slang term, meaning "to obtain an erection."

>Also, you seem to mistake minor, short term setbacks with long term ultimate failure.

Ok, so it's not what it was made out to be in previous threads. I stand corrected. It still doesn't make it fun to be handed a penalty for losing and having to wear it like a dunce cap.

>>50142346
>Then your GM isn't throwing challenging enough stuff at you.

I'm talking about the mechanics, retard. Not the antagonists, which is 100% dependent on the GM's fancy.

>>50142277
>Actually is a 1/5 of an XP.

Wow, even worse than I thought.
And you guys are really struggling with accepting that players don't want this shit sandwich? Honestly?

>>50142349
Well I don't run games, then again you're also talking to more than one person. And because some players do like it? It's not like you can force them to use a system they don't like.

>>50142384
>>50142277
In Chrod "An experience" is about 5 WoD XPs. So yes, calling it 1 XP is perfectly reasonable.

>>50142316
We had a system like that, but we rewarded good roleplaying instead of failure.

>>50142324
I literally want you to literally drink battery acid. Literally. Figuratively, I want you to fuck off.

File: 7204864-young-dangerous-woman-holding-one-gold-fish-and-gun-Stock-Photo.jpg (89KB, 1300x866px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50142397
>Chrod

>>50142332
Would you be able to direct me towards these condition cards anon? I have the vampire pdf from drivethru and we read it off my Kindle during sessions, but a Kindle is dreadful at handling 400 page pdfs with heavily layered pages, and searching for conditions can take so long.

All I could find with google was those April-Fools conditions released with GMC a while back.

>>50142266
sounds just like the way McKay would do it in atlantis
>this will take hours to fix
>you have 5 minutes to do it before i kill your friends then you
>SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT WAIT I GOT IT!!!

after a while it because an inside joke in that show
thanks for the tips man

>>50135652
>How do you deal with masquerade breaches?
actually here's a related question, what do you think would happen if every form of masquerade were to be removed all at once, and in a way that not only couldn't be repaired but actively prevented creating new ones?

assume all CofD lines, books, and fiction are in play here

>>50142458
A lot/Most of the vampires would fucking die.

>>50140753
I honestly can't think of a roleplaying game that doesn't have Conditions of some sort, but no one complains that D&D or Pathfinder has too many conditions. OR that Pathfinder has Condition cards.

>>50142287
>>50142332
Who gives a shit?
The game already assumes that players won't all have the same amount of Experience points in the first place. I saw a good article the other day written by someone in the GURPS thread about essentially ignoring the cost limit and instead building a character to the concept. Instead of having 200 or 300 character points, just have players build within a wide fuzzy margin and then work with them to give them free shit that fits their concept.
It honestly seems like a much better way of doing things, and I'm surprised I've never thought of it before, and been reluctant to have characters be at different XP levels.

Traits rated the same aren't always equally valuable in the first place. Cost has always been just a rough guideline.

>Alternatively though, you can do what the Mage 2e core book suggests and have little stones or something for beats, and hand them out in the session.
That is cool, though. I've wanted to make an RPG where pushing around feelies to denote changing power was a thing.

>>50142215
>The idea that consistently defined conditions causing more bookkeeping, instead of owod's nameless and inconsistently defined conditions, is totally alien to me.

think like this, in previous games "inconsistently defined conditions" were just winged on the moment or never applied to more than one scene as there werent actual codified rules they were less "bookkeeping".

But the same can be applied to CoFD the first sessions we completely forgot about conditions and tilts and just play without them. Nothing change much.

And people saying the failure engine is fundamental to WoD are talking aspel, we had 5 editions of WoD before the failure engine was thing (OWoD 1st through 20th and NWoD 1st). Some people like it, some dont but i wouldnt call it "a fundamental part of the Chrod experience"

>>50142287
>Then how do you keep track of them all, when the party is 2 -3 Beats a piece? I've had sneaky players fudge their HP in AD&D and this seems eerily similar in it's scope for abuse.

I give out poker chips from a jar.

>>50142324
>>Implying I'm the only person who has ever said "play a different system if you don't like the one you're playing".

I like to think you transcended your persona and became a realm by yourself of autism.

>>50142258
>People who want to play a power trip game can fuck right off to D&D.

See? An aspel!

>>50142369
Her, anon. And must have changed it.

>>50142349
>>50142370
Except that they don't rub your face in a failure. And, like >>50142366 says, they're literally only one aspect of things. Unless the players are reluctant to take ANY Condition and whine if they're hit with one, which would be silly from a D&D player.

You're not "losing and having to wear it like a dunce cap".

>>50142399
Failing sometimes *IS* good roleplaying.
Also, I've heard horror stories about players taking the Crippled flaw and dragging themselves up stairs because they wanted to get the Experience point for being hindered by their Flaw. Don't act like "if you fail, you can make it a little worse for a point of XP!" is some step backwards.

>>50142455
hey, you're welcome. Kick the fuck out of those System Lord assholes for the glory of the Taurii, will ya?

>>50142450

I think mister gone page had them. Just google mister gone charsheet.

>>50142458
Then a witch hunt would ensue that makes the Stalinist Purges look like a mass eviction notice. The smart Kindred would go into torpor to ride it out while mortals go apeshit and kill their neighbours in paranoia.

>>50142458
That depends a lot on if it also strips away all the 'veils' that keep the supernatural hidden. If Werewolves no longer cause Lunacy, for example, then it's more feasible to have some werewolves convince, say, major governments that there is a hostile spirit world on the other side of the Gauntlet and that human/werewolf co-operative spirit-problem-task-forces are a good idea.

If most people still freak the fuck out whenever they see a werewolf in shifted form, it's gonna be hard to get away from the 'kill it with silver' response.

>>50142514
>Except that they don't rub your face in a failure.
To you, maybe. Not so to the players that are complaining, clearly. They feel that taking a penalty for losing is not fun. You can't pretend that isn't happening.

>>50142551
Then just don't take it???

>>50142514
I don't care what their gender is.

>>50142450
>Would you be able to direct me towards these condition cards anon?
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/122721/GodMachine-Condition-Cards
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/124846/Vampire-The-Requiem-2nd-Edition-Condition-Cards
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/126557/Demon-The-Descent-Condition-Cards
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/171573/Werewolf-the-Forsaken-2nd-Edition-Condition-Cards
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/171574/Chronicles-of-Darkness-Condition-Numina-and-Dread-Power-Cards
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/194464/Chronicles-of-Darkness-Tilt-Cards
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/191791/Mage-the-Awakening-2nd-Edition-Condition-and-Numina-Cards
Can't find Beast or Promethean. Did they not get any?

>>50142524
http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/nwod-cc.html
These are for new Conditions, not the existing ones. They're basically just notecards with lines.

>>50142324
>>>/d/

>>50142369
DO NOT react to ASPEL! By reacting to them, you only feed their persecution complex. Simply redirect ASPEL to >>>/d/

>>50142551
You're over-egging the pudding here and I'm not really sure why.

>>50142559
They don't. The whole discussion (seeing as you are apparently incapable of reading back through the thread) started when ST's complained about people not accepting a Beat for "dramatic failure".

Is english not your first language?

>>50142586
What a coincidence, I'm not really sure what you're on about!

>>50142570
You're worse than Aspel. At least Aspel contributes to conversation, even if it is circular, illogical and asinine. You just screech the same shit and derail the thread.

>>50142551
>>50142588
>You can't pretend that isn't happening.
There are also people who feel White Americans are the most persecuted group in history. I don't need to pretend that it isn't happening, I believe that people feel that way. That doesn't mean they're right. Choosing a Dramatic Failure isn't taking a penalty for losing (you already take penalties for losing in, like, every game out there, assuming "losing" doesn't mean death).
And if people don't want to take that option they don't fucking have to, how is this confusing?

>ST's complained about people not accepting a Beat for "dramatic failure".
And? They don't have to. It's honestly a pretty fucking tiny aspect of the system. There are many many other ways to get Beats, most of them more reasonable. That option is there to take the sting out of failure. Sure, you get a bigger failure than before, but now you've got more chargen money.

>>50142570
But you're reacting. In fact, you're reacting in a more persecuting way.

>>50142514
>>>/d/

>>50142551
See >>50142570

>>50142609
>>>/d/

>>50142563
Cheers anon.

What's the stand-in for a general perception/awareness roll in CofD? I recall using Wits+Composure in Requiem1, but I can't for the life of me find it in the book?

I need help anons. How would you make an Ahli Batin agent in technocracy? I am struggling to find proper instruments which masks his Ahli Batin education.

>>50142494
>were just winged on the moment or never applied to more than one scene as there werent actual codified rules they were less "bookkeeping".

The status effect of "you can't see for shit" causing a +2, +3, or +???? depending on the splat causing it and which power does not decrease bookkeeping.

Remember, there is no upside for random inconsistency. If you want, you can always say to fuck the rules and make the game shittier at any time, but all eschewing conditions accomplishes is wasting word count with ... no upside whatsoever.

And yes, I'm pretty much 99% owod, with about two nwod chronicles since it came out.

>>50142638
It's Wits+Composure

>>50142610
>>50142620
>>50142570
Please refrain from shitting the thread just because a certain poster makes you feel fuzzy inside and that scares you.

>>50135652
Current setting is post-vampire purge, so drawing attention to yourself gets you fed to the Cainite Heresy's death squads.

>>50142594
You're over-cooking the cookie.
You're turning the floodlights on during daytime.
You're deploying the crash-mat for a single stair step.
You're ironing the newly-bought shirt.
You're hitting the steak with a sledgehammer.
You're using the snow tires in summer.
You're reversing the polarity when the fuse has blown.
You're wurfing the flammen when there's an icecube in your drink.
You're downing ten shots just to dance the Macarena.
You're fucking a goat when the sign just says 'please show the animals kindness'.
You're tap-dancing across a minefield to test your new shoes.
You're drinking bleach because your stomach is upset.
You're square rooting minus one when asked how much of the bill is yours to cover.
You're a loose cannon who gets the job done, but there is no job and you don't have a badge.
You're spinning the top at lightspeed and it's causing a gravitational collapse.
You're using fake-tan when the sunlight's just outside.
You're on fire, and you're throwing yourself into a lake of acid.
You once shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die, except all he did was say that your shirt-trouser combo clashed.
You've picked the nit, then used insane science to try and grow giganits that will consume us all.
You're chucking uranium into your car's tank.
You're waltzing to the last dance.
You're defragging your hard drive for the fifth time today.
You're sprinting to Amarillo.
You're elucidating the Voynich Manuscript.
You're electroshocking the rabid gorilla.
You're anti-gilting the un-lily.
You're defrocking the trainee priest.
You're painting Trump orange.
You're telling us you need a teleporter.
You're parading the wrong waterfront.
You're curious about George.
You're binning the printer.
You're over-salting the stir-fry.

You'd damn well better not be sure what I'm on about now.

>>50135652
My players are going to have to work overtime to cover their butts after their safe house blew up and some frenzying vampires ate the emergency service respondents.

>>50142743
>You'd damn well better not be sure what I'm on about now.
I certainly don't.

>>50142719
DO NOT react to ASPEL! By reacting to them, you only feed their persecution complex. Simply redirect ASPEL to >>>/d/

>>50142819
Excellent. Now take my hand while we ride the flaming wreckage of this thread into the abyss.

>>50140605
Have fun with your Kongo line bullsht

>>50135652
I'm gonna run my first VTM game soon, any advice? Anything I should watch out for? Any common retarded things players will probably do?

>>50140423
>In Chrud, there are no damage rolls.
... so? I'm not sure why "damage roll" is important. Why do you feel the need for a separate attack and damage roll? CofD isn't even the only system with no damage roll.
>Worse, the amount of damage one creature does with 4 dice is outdone by two mediocre characters with 2 dice apiece and a bonus.
No?
>Therefore, there is literally nothing in the Chronicles of Darkness that cannot be defeated by 36 intellectually challenged school children with sharp sticks.
Are you intellectually challenged? Also, talk about a fringe case, jeez. It's more likely that in oWoD you'll botch your head off if you raise your stats.

I feel like you probably do know the system, you're just pretending that you don't.

>>50140605
Actually, there's no bonus for attacking in groups other than the defender losing their Defense.
Also, armour doesn't care how many attacks are made in a round, though the ST is in a position to say that 36 beatings wear it out.
So 36 people rolling a chance die isn't generally going to mean anything.
Which, if anything, I'd argue that if you're attacked by 36 people, you *should* get your ass kicked, regardless of whether they're "intellectually challenged" or school children or what.

Nevermind that there's a system specifically put in place for this sort of "fighting someone who's terrible at fighting" incident. It's called Down and Dirty Combat. Which is useful, since 36 rolls of a chance die would be boring to sit through.

>>50142665
>The status effect of "you can't see for shit" causing a +2, +3, or +???? depending on the splat causing it and which power does not decrease bookkeeping.

Except for the case of specific power. It really does decrease the bookeeping because a dm just applies the bonus he feels like it at the time.

>player is blinded but i want him to still have a chance -2 or -3.
>2 games later another player is also blinded but i wanna make it near impossible to him to succeed so -5.

Not defending it but i can see how someone could preffer less rules memorizing/book checking in favor of nwod list of modifiers that were usually ignore in favor making shit up on the spot.

>>50142862

Pick a clan that isnt appropiate for your game.... Or just a tremere with some op combination of thaumaturge.

>>50142833
>persecution complex

Well there are many poster who uses his name as an insult or wish he could commit suicide so his prosecution complex is kinda justified

>>50143020
shut up, aspel

>>50135652
One of my players wants to play a Cappadoccian that was in torpor during the Giovanni purge and woke up much later. How much lore/game breaking would that be ?

>>50142348
People want Chrod to fail so hard, so ww will bring back oldwod as golden child. Even after ten+ years of success

>>50142992
I really don't see the point at all. Especially because variable penalties for blindness etc. imply that its better to simply blind yourself so that an enemy can't blind you worse.

>>50142992
nWoD 1e didn't have a real list of modifiers as such. Status effects were nebulous things. That's sort of the point: Conditions are codified and structured, so you always know what it does, no need to fuss around with bookkeeping.

>>50143048
That's not me :V
But he's right, you're feeding my persecution complex when you persecute me like this.
But keep it up, it actually makes me look better in comparison

>>50143097
Except WW already is?
And it has nothing to do with Chronicles?
The two are unrelated things at this point

>>50143048
forcing shit unoriginal memeage twenty mins in the box

>>50143110
>no need to fuss around with bookkeeping

Thats why i wrote bookeeping/bookchecking. Some people preffer the lazy method of make shit up.

>>50143123
>meta commentary

Anons are butt hurt about people ignoring their favorite toy.

>>50143008
I've written up a big lore thing the size of a college essay on all the clans and disciplines and all that shit and made sure to specify how not to be a fucking retard when playing Malks and Tremere and that, so I'm hoping I don't get any of that sort of shit in my game

>>50143097
The guy you were responding to was talking about failure as the problem, ie crit failures being depended upon voluntarily accepting upon a failure rather than because you rolled an extra 1.

>so ww will bring back oldwod as golden child.

They did, retard. It was bought by an owod fan.

Lets be honest: how relevant is stamina in a chronicle where you are not going to be able to use it to soak very often? Should I have more antagonists use attack powers that use a difficulty based off your stamina, perhaps?

>>50142609
>Choosing a Dramatic Failure isn't taking a penalty for losing

You lose a challenge.
You take a Beat.
A beat is a -1 or -2 penalty to dice rolls.
therefore, you take a penalty for losing.

Do you really need me to hold your hand and walk you through those four lines?

>>50143226
Sure, also remember it determines your health boxes.

>>50142663
I don't think it's possible. Part of joining the Technocrats involves a degree of indoctrination. Any story of this kind would involve a fierce battle for personal identity and the slow sensation of going native.

>>50142743
I love it when you serenade me with avant garde poetry Anon.... <3

>>50142833
>I love Aspel so much, gee I want to boof him, every time he comes here I want him to go to /d/ and have a stroke-off with me over some futa catgirls... I don't want anyone else talking to him, the dog-gone boy is mine

>>50143226

What system owod or nwod?

>>50143218

>>50143179

File: 1339198056122.jpg (150KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 1000x1000px

>>50142861
Don't hate me for pointing out that your precious Chrod statue has feet of clay, I'm just the messenger.

>>50143277

8/10 needs dick pics

>>50143277

As long as you are honest with yourself.

>>50142862
>Any common retarded things players will probably do?

Very few people can play a Malkavian right. They're supposed to be unstable and scarily deranged, but instead of Hannibal Lector dickheads play the character like a fucking Looney Tunes animation.

>my character is dressed in a nun's habit, with Juggalo face makeup. Can I have a chainsaw?

>>50143296

>>50140824
>>50140948
>>50140982
>>50142216

yeah stfu with that weakass back run bullsht

>>50142930
>CofD isn't even the only system

Why do you morons keep relying on this like it's some kind of defense? It doesn't matter if it was a rule chiseled in stone by Gary Gygax Himself, we're talking about oWoD and Chrod. Nothing else matters.

https://strawpoll.de/a82y4s5

>>50143216
Your players won't read it.

>>50143226
Uh... having more health is always fun, and also Stamina helps you run away from shit.

>>50143277
Anon, you're making me uncomfortable.

>>50143296
But you are literally factually incorrect in your understanding of how the rules work.

>>50143337
Why keep putting in so much work into torpedoing a system you don't care about with half baked arguments?

Shitpost or gtfo anon

>>50143337
And?
Who gives a fuck?
These games aren't in a vacuum. There are other games out there that do these things. Refusing to adapt is the surest way to die. Unless you're D&D.

>>50143381
>Unless you're D&D.
and even then it's had 5 editions

although they might be money grabs, but what isn't these days?

>>50143393
I was actually taking a dig at it because I feel D&D is a very archaic system in a lot of ways.

>>50143393
>5 editions
More like 10.

>>50143096
Not.... really.

Look, it's hard to wipe out an entire clan. If that Clan is obsessed with death, it makes them even harder to kill. Revised introduced The Harbingers of Skulls, who were a group of Cappadocians that were condemned to torpor in tunnels beneath their mountain fortress by an ante's curse, woken up by general End Times metashit. The Samedi are a branch of the Cappadocians that refused to go home for the grand entombing and stayed in the western Medditeranean slowly going zombie. The Giovanni themselves have occasional throwback neonates that show the Capp curse instead of the Giovanni one. There was even a Cappadocian still active and guarding something important in Cairo, and yes that's the clan listed in the By Night book, even after all those years.

I'd allow it, but remember, if anyone ever finds out who he really is, the Giovanni will hunt him down like a dog. Give them Auspex, Fortitude and Necromancy. Restrict certain Abilities - they wouldn't know Law, or Computer, or Drive - but allow secondary skills that reflect the background (Archery instead of Firearms, Ride instead of Drive, etc.). Finally, languages are going to be a problem if this cat just rolled out of the grave after a 650+ year dirt nap, so you might have to give other players a free dot in Language (ancient greek) or Language (latin) to reflect the two major lingua franca of the time and to allow for everyone to actually function as a team. Tell them they have to react with either childlike wonder or abject fear to the constantly surprising, dirty, smelly, noisy world. Finally, remember that certain cultural ideas are just going to be lost on the character, and could even be seen as threatening. Democracy? Atheism? Bathing costumes? Holy shit, even "drugs" and the whole "drugs are bad" shit is a new thing. Ancient Greeks had "pharmacopoeia", a view that all drugs and poisons were neutral and there to be used, nature's bounty.

>>50143408
yeah I got that, good sir. the formula has mostly been the same. roll dice with modifiers. Wizard casts non standard action spells. but even then it's had minute alterations. I mean 4th was more a board game than a table top, but what it did well was rolled into the Next edition

Mostly I'm just digging at people that refuse to adapt

Can you wipe mage memory to the point he dont remember anything supernatural, leaving only his mundane life?

Few missing years. Relatives think you are strange near point of madness asshole. Hallucination. Strange looks from someone in the crowd. And constant feeling like you saw love of your life in a dream and then forgot her face.

>>50143284
Owod. Is there a system in nwod which allows soak?

>>50137964

Despite the fact that people dislike crossing splats, the fact is that these games take place in the same setting, at least by the end, and Demon ties them together. In that scenario, a Methusalah has much more to be afraid of than mortal armies. Earthbound Archdukes feeling threatened, the more powerful Mages, and I imagine a tribe of Garou could take one down or at least heavily tax them. It's a WORLD of Darkness. And powerful as they are, even the Antediluvians are only in the top-tier of threat, rather than the actual top.

>that one End Times scenario where God basically just declares 'no more vampires', and it was so.

http://strawpoll.de/a82y4s5

This Aspel question is getting really old

>>50143502
the armor stat allows auto soak?

>>50143512
>end times

WW was trying to pivot from classic woe is me drama plays into to a 40k grimdark fantasy.

The system was pushed and broke all over itself

>>50141058
>The train will stop, because I'm standing in front of it

This is how i mage

>>50143567
No, Anon I already told you taking the Martyrdom paradigm only works if you Actually let the train hit you

Is there a gathered list of Requiem Two bloodlines? I saw some weeks ago someone asking about Tremere as a bloodline I think, and there's jack squat in the main book about Bloodlines beyond how to join one. Is there some resource out there to assist in making one, or is everything for Two now homebrewed?

>>50143502
People used to oWoD or other systems could call CofD's armour "soak", since it removes damage successes.

>>50143496
Nope.
First tingle of Mage Sight and he's back hunting mysteries.

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>>50143581
WILLPOWER

>>50143591
There are only three "official" Bloodlines that are in blog posts.
Neglatu, Khaibit, and Kerberos.
Just google them.

Also, there are rules on how to join them. There's no rules on how to make them.

>>50143327
>Hannibal Lector

Not really. Hannibal was basically Murder-Batman, a superhuman genius that didn't really correspond at all to any form of mental illness, while a Malkavian is just a vampire with one (1) derangement, who is also a derangement generator. Hannibal Lecter seems vaguely supposed to be a sociopath, but ... normies are closer to sociopathy than he is, as sociopathy is primarily about being unable to plan and having poor self control, while Lecter has Batman-like capabilities of planning and self control.

Many of these derangements are not things that you just come down with one day, so its not an accident that Malkavians are typically goofy and inconsistent -- someone who just comes down with schizophrenia one day is a fucking joke. So Malkavians are inherently wacky (wacky = super randumb stuff happening for no reason), unless you actually bother to form a methodology for his derangement.

I would accept a Malkavian whose derangement was written from the perspective of how that mental disease is usually obtained, and who inflicts derangements via Dementation based off the actual scenario (ie. a Malkavian who torments someone in the dark giving them a fear of the dark, or inflicting a derangement upon a prince or powerful elder that would be thematically appropriate like paranoia in the process of trying to convince him that he has enemies everywhere, etc).

But most Malkavians are just "stuff happens for no reason!"

>>50143616
Lector is like toreador who is into cuisine.

>>50143610
Cheers anon. It seems that two of them have unique abilities, a discipline and a merit. I'll have a little muck about, my game has a bloodline as its antagonist, forged in the Japanese/Soviet war in Korea in the 1940s. I'd not actually thought to stat them up and presumed there'd be a guide someplace. More fool me I suppose

>>50143616
>>50143327
Another example would be that Vampire is written with the feel of an old Victorian morality play in some respects, with moral failings becoming increasingly exaggerated and sins taking on a life of their own. So a Malkavian using Dementation to cast down the prideful and exaggerating their worst characteristics, yeah, that could be suitably dramatic.

Only problem is that iirc Dementation inflicts derangements on a fairly random basis, so you can't even have a Malkavian who is about fear of the x that inflicts fear of the x, and their frenzy likewise assigns derangements at random iirc, so even if you have a logical concept to begin with its probably just going to be LOL HIT IM WITH A FISH a few sessions later anyway.

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>>50143609
FINE take your extra three dice. and I'll give you one extra die for the fucking audacity of it. but you're still going to need enough potency to halt momentum

>>50143633
Perfect.

The super idiosyncratic behavior of a villain/antihero like that also strikes me way more as some sort of Path than a basic derangement.

>>50140849

Of course not, because (in my subjective opinion) you are right. Sort of. You can still play a vampire with other goals, ala Beckett or some shit, or actively have yours infiltrate the government via ghouls and blood bonds. That said, existential crises and the cost of being something 'other', finding meaning in it... or not, is part of the point.

I'm torn between being right there with you, and feeling you are using a very fixed character concept to make a very narrow argument.

>>50143259
I try.

>>50143649
If it's not something the players are part of, I wouldn't worry about the nitty gritty of it.

>>50143664
Can i activate train emergency breaks so they do part of the jo b for me? My character have a mild autism so he probable knows how trains work.

>>50140573
You can eschew ExFails if you want, no harm no foul, and I have never thought that vampires don't control the government -> depression.

If taking over the government is a "normal" goal for vampires, then nothing says you can't do that in your game. Its just so weird and bizarre, sort of like envisioning a complaint of hunter being "well, hunters haven't tried to become president yet!"

So long as you agree with the ST and players, running for election or having your pawn run for election doesn't seem too weird or impossible.

>>50143716
>psshh if you like trains you MUST have autism
>nobody collects trains if you they don't have autism
>they can't just admire the way they go clickety clack and zoom around in handsome loops

Edge: the Post

>>50143763
What doctors tell you about your hobbie?

>>50143716

Well thats an entirely different situation. If you've got your hand on the damn switch Yes, that fine. the magic makes the train stop more efficiently.

If you can actually see the mechanical breaks thats Fine too. take an extra die for your drive skill

if you're in fucking front of the train about to be run over and can't see the breaks then No Anon.

>>50143793
Just technically can mage with matter]forcess switch something to activate breaks+stop train with his force? If he knows where and what to press. Like he knows that exact train model and just aplly his force in 2 points.

>>50143777
Psychologists aren't doctors, they don't know anything.

>>50143714
You're absolutely right, but I've got today off work and a game tonight so I may as well do something halfway productive.

I'm currently looking at giving them access to merits of a Guerilla warfare styled vein, and members of the bloodline advance in it as though it were something akin to a Covenant membership equivelent. Does that sound interesting?

>>50143814
Of course. May require corro/space rather than matter, not sure.

>>50143823
I would personally say Mekhet Carthians should work perfectly unless you want to go to a lot of effort.

>>50143480
Wouldn't be better to use the old Capp discipline ? Not sure if it balances well with the modern disciplines.
Also, hiw could someone find out ? Can auspex pick up his ancestry, for example ?

>>50143837
Damn, I think you might be on to something here anon.

>>50143881

I personally think Mortis etc. is way cooler than modern Necromancy, especially because a big distinction between Giovanni and Capps is that... Giovanni invented Necromancy (or reinvented it, either way it was unknown to Capps).

>>50143887
There were also the Jiang Shi in VtR 2e who could serve as a "clan" for your vampires. They have some interesting rules.

>>50143814
>>50143829

Yeah that'd work. Matter can let you see the break mechanism. Also Death would help point out the weak point on a machine

space can be useful if you can't see the train, but matter can substitute in this example, because the train is present.

It just changes what you're doing.

presented example:
Stop train dead with raw forces
or
Apply breaks on the train. It's a level of applied knowledge that makes the problem easier if you know what you're doing.

Mage is the game of asking questions and knowledge. asking the right questions will save your life

I saw in the wiki that wolf-blooded can become werewolves, but are there any rules for this beyond the first change rules for teenagers?

>>50143975
Optionally, you can have them join the (not very amazing) wolf blooded gangrel bloodline in the Mexico book.

Other than that, you're one thing or the other in nwod usually, except for hunters

>>50143997
What you haven't heard of the vampire changelings they previewed on the forums yet?

>>50144046
No, do tell.

And of all the crossover monsters why would they use changelings?

>>50143179
ok
whatever the fuck you're smoking, I'll take an ounce

>>50143334
Are you using google translate?

>>50143381
>And?
and we're in a thread for discussing two games, sucka. Two. Not WOD & COD & Shadowrun, not WOD & COD & FATE, not WOD & COD & whateva-the-fuck-else-I-can-pretend-is-reponsible-for-this-bullshit. It doesn't matter if "other games have done it too", it's totally fucking irrelevant to the conversation.

Stick with the program, nigga. I didn't realise your DNA was so gnarled that basic logic like "thread topics" was lost on you.

>>50143519
I voted to suck his cock.

God, I love Aspel, so much. <3

>>50144170

But what if we want to talk about World of Future Darkness, the oWoD/Cyberpunk 2020 crossover?

>>50144089

go look yourself Anon, and stop being lazy

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-requiem/996449-weird-experiment-changeling-meets-requiem-the-admonitoria

>>50143753
>Its just so weird and bizarre

Why is it strange for a shephard to watch over his flock, or a farmer to command the fields around the cows? Mortals are fucking food for the immortals, cowed into silence for fear of retribution. Their free-range days should be over, Anonius.

>>50144170
>Comparing and Contrasting is a Third Grade writing essay

What do you have against education Anon?

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>>50143793
Why not just summon a section of the wall on the Gaza Strip between you and the train? That's some thick fucking concrete, me hearties.

>>50144315
>one city is run by the vamp conspiracy while the next two towns over have anti vamp hunters on speed dial

Before this turns into ANother vamps and Dark ages argument.

Seriously the game world is designed to allow both to happen, without breaking the setting. The game can handle it, and as long as you make it part of the story. the PCs wouldn't give a shit about your masturbatory fantasies

>>50144241

Is... is that a thing? Because it sounds delightful.

>>50144336
Space Matter Sympathy Dissidence Paradox

Someone else explain it, GoodLuck

>>50144400
It is. I used to have the PDF trying googling it

>>50143881
>Wouldn't be better to use the old Capp discipline ? Not sure if it balances well with the modern disciplines.

I just wanted to make your job easier by reducing the number of references you'd need at hand, but here, compare and contrast. Both Necromancy and Mortiis are blood sorcery with Paths, same as Thaumaturgy.

>>>Necromancy
>The Sepulchre Path
>This path allows the necromancer to command, interact with and combat ghosts.

>0 Insight: see the last moment's of a corpses life.
>00 Summon Soul: summons a wraith.
>000 Compel Soul: force a wraith to do your bidding.
>0000 Haunting: binds a wraith to a location or object.
>00000 Torment: damages a spirit.

>>>The Bone Path
>This path allows the necromancer to animate and control the dead corpses of animals and people, letting him/her create zombies of a sort.

>0 Tremenes: making the flesh of a corpse shift once
>00 Apprentice's Brooms: allowing the dead to rise and perform simple functions like lifting a heavy box.
>000 Shambling Hordes: allows the dead to rise and perform attacks.
>0000 Soul Stealing: remove one soul from its body.
>00000 Daemonic Possession: place a soul in a fresh corpse.

>>>The Ash Path
>This path allows the necromancer to pierce the Shroud and enter the Shadowlands that the various ghosts and Wraiths dwell in.

>0 Shroudsight: allows you to see into the Shadowlands
>00 Lifeless Tongues: allows you to speak with the dead in any language.
>000 Dead Hand: allows to you reach into the shadowlands and touch objects there.
>0000 Ex Nihilo: allows you to enter the Shadowlands
>00000 Shroud Mastery: allows you to strengthen or weaken the shroud rating in an area.

>>50143881
>>>Mortiis
>The Grave's Decay
>0 Destroy the Husk - Turns a corpse into a pile of ashes.
>00 Rigor Mortis - Allows the kindred to cause rigor mortis in mortal or undead bodies.
>000 Wither - Allows the kindred to cripple an opponent's limb whether they are undead or mortal. The muscles shrivel up, the bones get brittle, the skin peels, etc.
>0000 Corrupt the Undead Flesh - This ability causes the victim to be stricken with a horrible plague. Mortal victims of this ability are highly contagious and easily spread the disease to other mortals and to Vampires if their blood is taken. Kindred have a harder time spreading the disease but are affected by the weakness it causes all the same.
>00000 Dissolve the Flesh - An expansion upon the level one ability, this ability allows the kindred to turn vampiric flesh to ash.

>>>The Corpse in the Monster
>0 Masque of Death - Allows the kindred to turn his/her body into a corpse-like state.
>00 Cold of the Grave - The kindred enters a state of death where in they can temporarily feel no emotional or physical pain.
>000 Curse of Life - The user causes a vampire to feel destructive aspects of his/her previous life, such as hunger, thirst, etc.
>0000 Gift of the Corpse - Although it lasts for only a brief period of time, this ability removes the inherent weaknesses of a vampire, such as vulnerability to sunlight, fire, etc.
>00000 Gift of Life - This ability transforms the kindred into an assemblance of their former self. They lose their vampire weaknesses and gain the ability to eat, drink, etc.

>>50144315
No, its so fucking strange and bizarre to hear someone complaining that not all their work is done for them.

it'd be like someone picking up hunter and saying "what, monsters still exist? My PC would have to do something before he succeeds? Bullshit!"

>>50144400

I got the PDF of "World of Future Darkness" lying around. Give me a few minutes, and I'll upload it for you.

>>50143881

>>>Cadaverous Animation
>0 Trace of Life - The kindred can cause mild traits of life in a corpse, such as twitching.
>00 Call the Homuncular Servant - Allows the kindred to cause a small, mobile piece of a corpse (like a hand) to reanimate and move about.
>000 Raise the Corpse to Service - Allows the kindred to reanimate a corpse into his/her bidding, although it cannot attack or do other complex tasks.
>0000 Call the Athanatos - Transforms a corpse into an undead warrior that the vampire may have trouble controlling
>00000 Muster a Corpse Army - An expansion on Call the Athanatos, this ability summons a number of corpse warriors that might be controlled by the vampire's willpower.

>how could someone find out?

First, s/he would stick out a bit, looking like a corpse (-1 to all social tests involving face to face interactions due to uncanny valley effect). Most modern neonates would assume such a creature was a caitiff of some type, as by the Modern Nights few remember a time before the Giovanni were a clan, and they aren't talking. Unless the character blabs, they could be fine for quite some time.

The Tremere would also be able to identify him/her from a blood sample (Path of Blood 1) and could even keep it quiet... in exchange for a little favour.

>>50144463
Its funny how necromancy is actually massively powerful due to being both able to summon and compel wraiths amongst other things, and a wraith is a 10 health level no wound penalty monster that is invisible and indestructible to almost everyone, has dirt cheap and very difficult to resist powers, can heal or destroy easily, can fuck people up on the other side of the planet even if its foe can affect wraiths... and yet, goes underappreciated because of how bizarre and obtuse its mechanics are and how rare WtO is, even in pdf form.

The Shroud thing is really good.

Are explosives statted anywhere in Requiem? I'm not seeing them as a weapon, nor do any skills seem to pertain to them.

>>50143512
I don't actually dislike crossing splats.
I've just literally never seen any indication that anyone at White Wolf is actually capable of competently writing something like that very well.

>>50143096
>>50143480

Don't forget about the Mla Watu; they're pretty much confirmed to be regular survivors of clan Cappadocian with just a namechange, with its elders all rumored to not be of african descent and to have only recently (by vampire standards, which means hundreds of years) arrived in Africa.

The reason the Giovanni aren't doing anything about it is... well, they've got zero shit to say in Africa; it's a hellhole filled with vampires more than willing to rip anyone a new asshole.

Besides, it's not like the Mla Watu are actually opposing the Giovanni (unlike the Sabbat-affiliated members of the Harbingers of Skulls), they just stay well out of each others' way. So unless he/she went out of their way to attract Giovanni attention, they'd be as safe as any other vampire... which isn't safe at all, really.

So yeah, there's not much lore/game breaking if your guy wants to play a torpor'd cappadocian, but just playing a Mla Watu (embraced while on holiday in Africa maybe, or embraced by a Mla Watu that was in the Americas/Europe while searching for new skulls for their collection) will probably be easier, on both him and his character.

>>50144717
look in hunter / armory books. Vampires take bashing on all damage by principle. but explosions are probable enough destructive force to apply lethal wounds

>>50143480
Stop being reasonable Anon, you're just making me rage harder. I came to 4chan for butt hurt and edition wars

>>50144697
The problem is that enslaving wraiths tend to attract a lot of negative attention.

For example, one of the upcoming Gehenna scenarios in "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" involves 99% of the Giovanni clan screwing up a great ritual to break the Shroud and ending up getting assfucked by all the wraiths they've tortured and enslaved over the years.Then the wraiths end up possessing the bodies of the Giovanni (with only a few minor families being left unaffected), with very few people none the wiser.

That's an extreme example of course, but the fact remains that Necromancers need to be veeeeeery careful when dealing with wraiths/ghosts/spirits.

>>50144852
>For example, one of the upcoming Gehenna scenarios in "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" involves 99% of the Giovanni clan screwing up a great ritual to break the Shroud and ending up getting assfucked by all the wraiths they've tortured and enslaved over the years.

Yupe that was in one of the older Gio books about their end goals and possible fuck ups

>Then the wraiths end up possessing the bodies of the Giovanni (with only a few minor families being left unaffected), with very few people none the wiser.

... So Strix well good to know owod is taking cues from nwod again

>>50144852
Well there's not just the stick but also the carrot. They need to Find Someone To Show Photographs To Their Dead Grandchildren (Love) 5 or whatever.

>>50144961
>... So Strix well good to know owod is taking cues from nwod again

I doubt it was based off that.

>>50144808
>The reason the Giovanni aren't doing anything about it is... well, they've got zero shit to say in Africa

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Ghiberti
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Beryn

>>50143096
It's ok.

>>50137820
>3 Pyros for a whole scene of use
Vampire powers were 1 Vitae per scene of use in 1e, and are just straight-up free in 2e (although you can spend Vitae for bonus effects).

The book noone wanted
https://www.sendspace.com/file/t1f65w

>>50145279
>http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Ghiberti
>http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Beryn

Like I said, zero shit to say.

>"Look at me, I'mma wreck up Africa, AHAHA- oh shit, those fuckers saw us! RUN, LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER NIGHT!"

The Ghiberti and the Beryn are about as directly threatening and relevant to the Laibon as a whole as the Kuei-Jin are. Which is to say, not very.

That's not to say they *couldn't* be, but at the moment? Nah.

>>50137820
When they are killed, they become Azoth 1 torso-men, don't they?

>>50142198
I've been playing for a year and that's absolutely been the case for us. We keep having to stop the game in the middle of narrating scenes in order to either come up with conditions on the fly or look up an appropriate one. It works well in person if you have condition cards, or online in text-based games, but not in other circumstances.

The Beat system leads to a lot of intrusive mid-session bookkeeping. I find it actively inferior to 1e's "just concentrate on playing the game while the session is going, and figure out XP at the end in a two-minute post-session review" version.

>>50140752
Got a citation? They absolutely did in 1e, and I haven't seen anythign stating that's changed in 2e.

>>50146038

CofD corebook. DaveB's also confirmed it in other places.

>>50145978
>We keep having to stop the game in the middle of narrating scenes in order to either come up with conditions on the fly or look up an appropriate one.
like what?

>>50145865
They got presence in Africa which is more than other cainites can say and a good portion on the slave thread and the other fun african activities, so for me that is more than "zero shit to say"

>>50140982
Don't forget that the Gauru can force a roomful of children into Down and Dirty combat, where he's rolling something like 11 dice of murder versus their chance die to fill the room with child salsa.

>>50146137
I'm not sure what you mean by this question.

>>50140824
>Size: 5 (6 With Garou)
7

>>50145778
>The book noone wanted

Why? Is kinfolk 20th that bad?

Do you still reroll 10's on a rote action?

>>50146251
>I'm not sure what you mean by this question.
>We keep having to stop the game in the middle of narrating scenes in order to either come up with conditions on the fly or look up an appropriate one.
>like what
like what condition did you have to stop the game in the middle of narrating a scene to come up with?

>>50146253
Not even the garou care about the kinfolk

>>50145978
This is the best argument against Beats.

I still think Conditions are a great innovation but not Beats.

>>50145978
>The Beat system leads to a lot of intrusive mid-session bookkeeping.
Why don't you just do it at the end of the session like everybody else?

>>50146467

I keep wondering if Beats would have been better as some kind of narrative currency as opposed to XP. Then again, I've always liked the idea of passive improvement in RPGs, so it's not like I ever have good ideas.

>>50142930
>you'll botch your head off if you raise your stats.

This hasn't been true since second edition and you know that. Stop lying, Aspel.

>>50146152
>more than other cainites can say

Which, again, does not mean they have a *great* presence or are very relevant to the Laibon. It's also not strictly true that they have "more than other cainites", given that the Followers of Set have a bigger (and far more permanent) powerbase in Africa on account of them being based out of Egypt/Northern Africa. Plus, the Ebony Kingdoms have some members of Ventrue and Malkavians as well, although like the Giovanni, they're pretty powerless and insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

>>50146256
Yes.

You only get rote on the first roll, though - rerolls from 10/9/8-agains don't get rote.

>>50146253
>Why? Is kinfolk 20th that bad?

Not really. It's actually pretty interesting, if a bit lackluster in certain areas.

It's a very "niche" book though, and not something a regular group would ever need to get their hands on. If you're a WtA fan (or W20, rather) grab a copy when it goes on sale, just in case the fancy should strike you/your group to have a Kinfolk character or two.

>>50145978
We've had very different experiences then. Conditions are easy to do on the fly and I don't have to so much as pause the flow to work them, and noting Beats is literally just a single stroke of a pencil each time. I don't use Condition cards.

>>50146260
Conditions that happen to be narratively appropriate to whatever an Exceptional Success or Dramatic Failure was just rolled on?

Constantly using Inspired or Informed gets incredibly monotonous.

>>50146054

Yeah, because the Vampire 2nd corebook didn't say either way, I wrote that they did in Mage's core rules, even to the point that some Paradox math was based on the tiny risk of a Dox chance die exploding, and then Rose told me they don't do it any more.

>>50146471
Because Conditions are applied and resolved during the session, and so are Aspirations? You have to mark a beat down every time you resolve a Condition or hit its beat trigger, whenever you resolve an Aspiration, whenever you exchange a Failure for a Dramatic Failure, etc. If you don't, you end the session with 1 Beat for roleplaying and 1 beat for attending the session, when the cheapest thing it's possible to buy costs 5 Beats (and there are only so many 1-dot merits available).

Beats slow down the game and make it clunky.

>>50144400
It was in the Magazine, and dates back to around... 1994, I think.

>>50146489
>I keep wondering if Beats would have been better as some kind of narrative currency as opposed to XP.
This is certainly a thought I've had. Make it like Fate points in FATE, or Joss in Legends of the Wulin. They're generated in that session and are useful for making changes to and applying during that session, but your session-to-session advancement doesn't depend on them.

>>50146961
>I wrote that they did in Mage's core rules, even to the point that some Paradox math was based on the tiny risk of a Dox chance die exploding, and then Rose told me they don't do it any more.
Is there any particular reason for this? I've always liked the possibility of exploding chance dice. A 1 in 100 chance of getting your chance die to explode twice has never felt terribly system-breaking to me.

>>50147006

Thanks for that, I actually found it earlier (several sources easily downloaded with a google search) and it's pretty awesome. I kinda wish they had done up to the later Cyberpunk versions further in the future, but I guess what little fluff there is can easily be made to fit.

>>50147008

The only thing stopping me from trying to tinker something up is

1. Coming up with an alternate XP system to make up for pulling Beats as XP out, and

2. Figuring out exactly what Beats as narrative currency would do without making them Fate Points (which I don't think belong in CofD, at least not as a clone), or stepping on Willpower's toes.

>>50145664
Wut? Except for some Disciplines having their weakest 1 dot powers free, they have to pay for everything every time.

>>50145898
No. They are magically brand new again.

Seeing discussion about chance rolls and rote action, I have question too.
Does rote action and 8-again stack?

>>50148093
Vigor 5, for example, just permanently raises your Strength score by 5 without spending any vitae (which was the entirety of its effect in VtR 1e, IIRC).

>>50143887
>>50143823
Look up Secrets of the Covenants spoilers. Carthians get some good Bash the Fash merits.

>>50143911
The way they embrace in particular is neat, though the specifics are a bit loose.

>>50144089
>>50144046
>previewed
It's a fan made thing that just happens to be by the developer.

>>50144170
And when something is fucking relevant like "have you seriously not played other systems? This mechanic is not unusual or rare", that's part of the topic.

>>50145664
What? No.
Many low level Disciplines are free, but higher level ones, especially in 2e, can take tons of vitae. They also need to be paid each time you use the power. When you charge an Alembic, you get that power for the rest of the scene.

>>50148093
I wouldn't allow it, no.

>>50148122
Prometheans have the ability to add their Azoth to their rolls. Vigor also does have activated abilities. And each Transmutation has a free static always on ability.

>>50147029
Probably because it's complicated to explain that a chance die is only successful on a 10, but then gets rerolled as a normal die.

>>50146492
They showed the math chart back when V20 was being made, and they decided they liked the small dips backwards.

>>50148093
>No. They are magically brand new again.
Thank God

>>50142141
Latex masks, hombre

>>50143512
I just read Wormwood, the Gehenna scenario you're referring to, and it's a really fucking good time. Though I might be baised since I don't care about combat and this scenario has pretty much zero.

>>50143763
/k/ here!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_S._Lind
http://www.castaliahouse.com/downloads/victoria-a-novel-of-4th-generation-war/

It really is that bad.

>>50148691
Seems like a great guy.

>>50148778
We did a close reading of Victoria.

It was infuriating.

>>50148691
An interesting fellow, to say the least. I can't quite wrap my head around the concept of a neo-monarchist American conservative
>>50148826
Why would you do that.

>>50148887
>I can't quite wrap my head around the concept of a neo-monarchist American conservative

Is that more or less weird than the fact Tolkien was an anarcho-monarchist and at one time said that "anarchy is more than just whiskered men with bombs" and that "my sympathies lie more with whiskered men with bombs?" (paraphrasing slightly)

>>50148943
Tolkien liked the symbolism of a king. That's why Aragon wasn't a king until the very end.

>>50148943
Weirder, I'd daresay. I'm not surprised by writers having anti-authoritarian bents, especially deeply religious ones like Tolkien or Tolstoy. But I really didn't think American conservatism could go along with monarchism.

>>50149092

new thread

File: Vote Libertarian for glorious ANCAPISTAN™.jpg (109KB, 960x480px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50149093
Why wouldn't it? A lot of Conservativism is pretty authoritarian, and the desire for a strong leader who'll act paternally. I mean, most Conservativism in America is deeply religious, and the Church is all about heirarchical structures. Is the defense for the rich really that far off from wanting monarchy?

>>50149093
>>50149154

Libertarianism/ancap coincidentally becomes similar to feudalism anyway, so its interesting to see someone embrace that.

>>50148887
>>50149093
Lind is on the far fringe of American politics. I mean the FAR fringe.

>>50149154
On their worst day, they are objectively less Authoritarian than you are on your best.

>>50148826
>It was infuriating.
What was that infuriating about that? Is it worth to read?

>>50149410
>Thinking I'm an authoritarian
Haha, you're funny, Anon. I bet you also think criticizing someone for the things they say--or saying they shouldn't say those things--is censorship

>>50144284
Jesus christ this is awful, how is everyone eating it up like it's the best candy? Christ I hate Hill Jr.

>>50148648
I'm not sure how often those appeared in the dark ages.