Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>50142333
silly anon, there's no atonement from the sin of PLAYING PATHFINDER

>>50142357
How about shitposting, asshat?

Whats your characters favorite foods /pfg/

my speshul snowflake homebrew race character loves baozi like foods. She especially enjoys food festivals, street foods, and communal meals / potlucks.

>>50142365
none from that either. Truly we are all damned

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Posting this again for DM use, since the thread it was in got nuked the other day.

It's no more dangerous than the other CR 6 creature in the Bestiary, like the dinosaurs.

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Anyone got the Mega link for the PDFs

>>50142446
>http://pastebin.com/JTj1yEmU

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So, I will participate for the first time in game of Pathfinder with other 8 players. The problem is that I, and most of them, know nothing about Pathfinder beside hearing that it is in practise D&D 3.7. What should I know about the tone, theme and setting to make a character?

>>50142612
>8 OTHER PLAYERS

jesus fucking christ.

>>50142618

Separated in two groups.

>>50142628
Oh

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>up way too late due to having been up the prior night watching a movie through the fallback
>have a gestalt character idea that's either really great or really dumb

So what I was thinking was Halfling Sylvan Sorcerer/???, with a Roc animal companion for 1st-level airborne shenanigans. As I went from this to the obvious "death from above" route, I realized I had no idea what the second class should be.

I've been leaning towards Nature Oracle as a way to explain the Roc's origin further, but that doesn't really work with the whole "airborne skirmishing" thing.

>>50142664

One will have normal character and hard difficulty (I guess for those who know how to play). The other group will have good characters in normal difficulty (probably noobs). Both will play in the same story and the actions of one group will influence the other.

>>50142612
Run while you can.

At least, some general advice:
>Magic-using classes are always better than those without
>It's fine to pick a not-best option for the sake of roleplaying but never pick a BAD option for roleplaying because you'll bring down your team.
>Don't pick Fighter unless you want to read through two other books to find options to make it good. And even then you'll never be the best.
>If you pick monk or rogue make sure you pick the Unchained versions
>Whatever class you pick, LOOK UP A GUIDE on how to build it. Google '[Class name] guide pathfinder'.

>>50142680
I'd advise against gestalting two full casters, that's a good way to annoy your dm

What are you looking for skirmish wise

>>50142684
Or N. Jolly guide pathfinder, that already includes like 7 or so different options.

>>50142717
You could also just find the zenithgames page with all the guides, I think that's in the pastebin

>>50142680
>Airborne at first level
>Fly 50 feet up
>Enemy caster casts sleep

>Roc fails save, you both fall, falling damage kills you

>>50142713
Either ranged magic blasts or archery.

>>50142746
This is why we take Feather Fall at these levels - because that is a specific and notable risk.

Tell me /pfg/, what is the cutest Familiar?
And what's the Cutest Improved Familiar?

This is probably Important Information.

>>50142746
>1st level
>get shanked
>die

>>50142680
I'd recommend a Hunter for your off-side, because it'll give you shitloads of small but important buffs for your pet and you can cherry pick some useful druid and ranger spells to supplement your standard casting.

>>50142612

Is the DM using the standard setting? It is essentially a panoramic high fantasy (mostly) with different regions being inspired by various RL and fictional places. Regions run the gamut from a neo-ancient egypt (Osirion) to a tyrannical empire, run by diabolist nobles (Cheliax) to a poorly settled frontier that used to be the hinterland of a fallen magic empire (varisia) to a gothic principality, playing at decadence and sophistication in the cities while the land is home to various horrors (Ustalav) to a blasted wasteland with a portal to the Abyss, where a beleaguered force of crusaders and conscripts tries to hold back or turn the tide. It reminds me of a Forgotten Realms reboot with less active deities,fewer high-level NPCs everywhere and a big dash of modern inclusiveness. Personally, I like it.

If the DM is using an adventure path (premade campaign) and does not expressly prohibit it,check the player's guide for it. These guides are free and have some background info and tips,without too many spoilers.

And yes, check the various guides or ask if you have questions about a particular class. Pathfinder offers a ton of options, but not all options are equal,sadly.

One last thing - d20pfsrd or http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ have almost all mechanical options for the game - classes, archetypes (class variants), spells,whatever. I prefer d20pfsrd as I find it easier to navigate.

>>50142759
Why do you even need a gestalt then

Can't go wrong with fighter for archery I guess

Seems boring DESU senpai just using a strong build and using a strong combat style with it

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Okay PFG, what's your favorite class guides? I really like N. Jolly's stuff and wish he'd do more, but the ones by Cockroach Tea Party are pretty good too (even if I don't really like their vigilante one).

>>50142783
Sylvan Bloodline doesn't exactly lend itself to blasting, and most of the spell prep there would just be for Alter Winds, Feather Fall, etc. Stuff to facilitate good flight.

Or maybe I'm up way too late and not thinking straight.

>>50142811
Sorcs of all bloodlines have no problem blasting I assure you

>>50142790
Definitely the N. Jolly stuff. The alchemist guide in particular covers a lot of really good stuff. It's what introduced me to the Winged Marauder archetype, which is awesome fun if you can live with being a goblin.

>>50142811
Sorcs don't prep spells, that's exactly why they're excellent blasters regardless of bloodline

Sure some are better at it but they're hardly mandatory

>>50142759
>Feather fall isn't on any divine caster spell list
>If you also fail the save vs sleep you can't cast it even if you took it somehow

>>50142761
>Making it so there are even easier ways to kill you than shanking

>>50142790

N. Jolly's are fine, but sometimes I don't like minor elements like the flavor descriptions. Which is weird, considering that I like guides like the BARBARIAN AM SMASH and the Guide to Pleasing the Metal Gods that try to hype you on the class flavor.

>>50142912
Please the metal god's is an awful guide imo

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repost because I want people to judge how cute my oracle is!

>>50139575
(Str+Dex+Con+Cha) / 4 = Attractiveness
3+16+16+20/4 = 55 = 13.75 = 1.75
I also have a natural charmer
(my str is 3 because they let me take the child like oracle curse.) I'm the opposite of a muscle girl but I think I should still be cuuute

>>50143101
I think you're insecure about your good looks if you need a formula to tell you how attractive you are.

>>50143101
Loli is trash

Just like you

>>50142612

Speaking of terrible fates, how do I make an expy of the Happy Mask Salesman?

My current level 10 Kingmaker party is:
Summoner (Chained, Dragon Eidolon)
Cleric (Healbot)
Monk (...you knew how it goes)
Sorcerer (me, blasting with Orc bloodline + Blood Havok)

Our GM give us a chance to change our character. Should I switch myself to God Wizard or Arcanist? Our party really lack knowledge skill monkey and having more utility spell would be nice.

Maybe Brown-fur Transmuter? Might invest in Animal Ally feat line too, so we get more body on the field.

>>50142333

Yesterday I began running Carrion Crown. It's also the first time doing an AP in my group. I am actually very impressed by how well things turn out. I was skeptical that the mood would set in but I only needed a playlist from YouTube and everything else fell right into it. Any experiences or advice about this particular AP or in general?

Guys, I need help. I am druid lvl 4 with high STR (20) and medicore WIS (15) and i need to kill party alchemist (quickend template, hig INT and AGI, nasty bombs and undead minions) in near future, about at lvl 6 (plus I am an idiot and wont have natural spell) . So the question is, where i get (from what cheap items) high fire resistance (30+) and move speed to rape that guy?

>>50143348
>pvp

Don't

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While making a rough draft of my Aberrant Aegis/Hekatonkheires Symbiat for the RuneRegent, I learned that the Aberrant's Transformed Body is not a polymorph effect and can stack with shapeshifting from the Alteration sphere. Seems my weird powers just got even weirder.

What interesting rules interactions have you discovered recently, /pfg/?

>>50143372
Stop trying to tentacle rape the rest of the party

>>50143353
I cant. Every moment he can go rouge. He once killed our sorc, almost killed another sorc and my animal companion (well, technically it was my fault - stone call in small cave - is not a toy.
And he is heretic, who is going to make zombies and ghouls - those foul heretical creatures, whom my drud is SCARED of.

>>50143401
Then talk to the player and do about how he is ruining the game by murdering party members

>>50143387
She doesn't know about the lewd connotations of her tentacles and considers the just weapons and back-up arms. She's willing to try anything once, but is generally very vanilla.

>>50143414
Don't lie anon

>>50143422
She's CG, anon. Tentacle rape is not generally considered kosher.

>>50143101
>my str is 3 because they let me take the child like oracle curse
You're still weaker than a fucking pixie. Children aren't strong, but they're certainly stronger than a fucking tiny cricket monster.

Also the calculation is dumb, because it assumes that everyone "fills out the same". Good dex doesn't necessarily mean good looks, neither does having lots of muscles. See "Video Game tourney people and The Hulk" respectively.

>>50143413
He wasnt ruining fun. His actions were logical. Its template feature that he gets aggresive and our party warpriest KO him, because priest wanted to save those poor murlocks and yan-ti? when alchemist wanted to kill them. I was afk when this shit happened.
And yes, are sessions are anal circus.

>>50143453
*our

>>50143453
Honestly you and your game both sound like cancer

Consider suicide

>>50143342

The adventures themselves can be okay, but a lot of people complain that they are poorly connected and the DM should work on the plot hooks. It would be nice to also work on a way to subtly involve the main villain, otherwise each adventure may feel like a "Monster of the Week" run.

I played book 1 and liked it. Book 2 may need some extra inducement for the players to get involved and to stay involved in the process.

Now, you could shorten it and run it up to book 3 (or 4, if the party likes Lovecraftian elements). Have all the threads point towards the Whispering Way more clearly, make Vrood the big Honcho, and have the players get him. GG WP. If you include book 4, have Vrood be the boss' right hand man, have the boss escape with something big, track him down, have a big fight with him then have him transform into the "normal" boss for book 4.

>>50143432
It is not rape, when your party priest wants it.

>>50143474
NO! U consider!

>>50143432
What about tentacle-assisted foreplay?

Granted, looking at your obviously inhuman body and thinking "man, that would be really handy if I need to get someone off" might take some getting used to, but it isn't rape if the other party agrees to and enjoys it. Well, if said party is legal, at least.

>>50143432
Tentacle rape for the greater good

>>50143506
You have to be 18 to post on 4chan

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>>50143507
?

>>50143524
B...B..BUT! <insert lame yo mama joke>

>>50143507

What kind of tentacles does she have? The thick rubbery ones will be easier to sell as fuck-things than slimy octopus suckered ones.

Besides, shouldn't tentacles be the least of a lover's worries? She's a freaky aberrant, who knows what she looks like when the clothes come off.

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>>50143494
>>50143507
If her partner is into it, she's willing to give tentacle naughtiness a try. They'd have to be the one to initiate, though, because she'd never think to use them like that.

>>50143620
Thick and rubbery, and able to secrete small amounts of slime but they usually don't. As for her body, it's almost entirely human when not in horror mode, but she does have five marks on her back where the tentacles and stinger come out.

honestly i'm just hoping the guy who had the idea of the catboy from osirion tries to get in on the campaign.

>>50143477

When it comes to the WW, I don't think I have to worry my players are pretty vindictive against against secret societies after my last campaign in Eberron where they had to face the Emerald Claw in Stromreach. They are like a hound after a fox. Lucky for me all of us like Lovecraft. I will be checking the second book more carefully and see what I can change and improved and see about making more connections between the books. Thanks.

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>>50143670

Not going to lie, but the creepy tentacle girl being gently guided in the use of her girthy Jappandages sounds pretty gosh darn cute.

And hey, if someone ain't into that she's got a real nice booty, yeah?

truly this thread does deserve to be purged

degeneracy is unstoppable

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So! How'd your weekend go, /pfg/? Anything fun or exciting happen?

>>50143670
Now I'm picturing a cute tentagirl blushingly following instructions from a more dominant and experienced lady who enjoys having consentacles that can take orders.

I don't have enough images of space marines or inquisitors for this thread

Noob here. Do you have any advice for rogue characters? I have only played videogames related to D&D like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights 2.

>>50144523
Well if you must, play an unchained rogue, not a core rule book rogue

Otherwise play a slayer or investigator, they do the same thing but better, so do some bard Archetypes.

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>>50144469

Game Saturday! Really fun!

Game tonight! My mic isn't working! Panic!

>>50144469
I was sick all Saturday and missed the game, but I hear there's loot and the party leveled up.

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>>50144469
Our weekly Saturday session took a turn for the weird(see: I'm convinced we the party was slipped acid), the highlights include:
>Escorted to the temple of a goddess by her golems
>Apparently it's all that is left of a once thriving city, which just vanished 2 weeks ago, including exact memories of said town and many citizens
>Running into the man known as the sparkle sorcererwho claims to command mastery over everything sparkle related(he just farts fucking glitter as part of a curse he has)
>The man destroyed the local temples bathroom, which is now under a mound of glitter
>The party necromancer managed to finally become a Lich, thankfully he's so covered in clothing it's almost impossible to tell he's just bones, so no one cares.
>After investigating the disappearance of the city, which included driving a man insane through guilt, we learn the "king" of the lost city isn't the actual king, but wished it so, and through time travel shenanigans, got rid of the city to hide the evidence
>The necromancer and rogue find a giant pile of skeletons, and the party lets him raise them all as a horde
>Party proceeds to kill every single person in on the conspiracy in one night of bloody massacre, get to the king, and prepare to get info out of him
>The king freaks, swareing to never reveal who got him the wishes, and then wishes himself out of existence
>They necromancer pulls the plug on the skeleton horde, the party isnt even angry, just impressed
>The goddess of course chooses this time to call for them to speak with her
>Session ends just as we meet her

Oh yeah and we found the brazen egg as one of the goddess artifacts in the temple, fun times.

I picked up Stupendous Strength and am planning to use a tower shield.
I noticed another issue with tower shields, though - shit hardness and only 20 HP. If I were to plonk it down in a chokepoint it would be shredded in one turn by 1-2 CR-appropriate creatures and it's only gonna get worse as we level up.
So, how do I make the tower shield have more hardness and HP?
DSP, SoP and most of the stuff on the SRD is allowed when it comes to 3pp.

Should I just give up on tower shield/fullplate? It's so bad, I almost can't justify doing it, even though I love the idea.

>>50144681
Adamantine?

>>50144690
Tower Shields must be wooden by RAW

>>50144703
found an adamantine one just by looking shit up senpai

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-shields/phalanx-shield

Speaking of shields, is there a way to play Warder with a sword and board style without spending 12 feats on it while also not being horribly worse than a ZweiSent?
I'm having trouble making a level 5 build that meets those criteria. I can do it if i spend all my feats on it, but I really don't want to.

Why are shields so fuckin' bad?

>>50144681
Make it out of Adamantine and add a Masterwork Shield Boss? Plus magic enchantments increase the hardness and HP of an item.

>>50144722
I wasn't aware adamantine was a type of wood. I guess it dethrones titanium as the hardest wood.

Hey if it can be adamantine I guess I'll just do it. Paying 3k just to use it properly is some real BS though

>>50144774
well keep in mind that shields don't lose HP just cause they get hit, they have to be actively sundered, and most enemies don't have improved sunder, so that provokes AOOs

in reality, a bunch of weak enemies smackin your shield won't do shit unless they're trying to sunder, and if they're sundering, you bet your ass that you're a-stabbin them with your spear or whatever.

>>50144703
>>50144774
Where does it say that Tower Shields have to be made of wood though?

>>50144827

Not everyone's as strong as Tower Knight, anon.

>>50144827
Well, a metal one isn't available unless it's a specific magic item like the one above. Shields come in wood and metal form but the tower shield is only available wooden in the gear list. Can't find a specific rules entry saying it MUST be wooden, though.

>Play first ever tabletop RPG with a bunch of people who've played a few before
>GM doing a custom campaign
>GM punishes us heavily for not perception checking literally everything
Are official campaigns this douchy, or is it just this one/this DM?

>>50145041
just that dm

>>50145041
Good GMs roll that shit for you secretly and if you miss something it's because you rolled bad not because you forgot to

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I think I hate my group.
New players, to PF at least, and I told them, hey, make a pc, level 1, we'll have a one shot in a month to get you accustomed to the game. Read the phb, get the dice, etc.
4 of the 5 don't have characters done, and 3 of the 5 just now got backstories finished.
Those same 3 have no grasp of the mechanics, or even know what a "ability modifier" is. The game is saturday.
Help? I'm frustrated already. Why do players do this? I mean, the game is hard enough to run already, and now I'm facing the possibility of having to literally spoonfeed adults things from a book they had a month to give a cursory look over, and chose not to.
Do they just not care?

>>50145082
Sounds like a better system, since I don't think screaming 'perception check' after every one of the GMs sentences would make for a good experience.

>>50145107
They probably don't give a fuck.

Probably half of them even plan on getting drunk, maybe including the GM (guaranteed dead session).

>>50145107
run 5e instead

>>50145141
>maybe including the GM
At this point, yes, I'm bringing a bottle of Jameson Select with me, because if I am going to deal with this, I need at least a little something to grease the wheels.
>>50145152
The most useless post in the thread, everyone.
Jokes on you, I'm actually running 4e, not PF, but you fucks wouldn't answer if I said that

>>50145213
why aren't you asking in the 4e thread then

i'm confused.

>>50145223
Because it's DOA, err day, and I already know it. I've tried to talk about actually playing games in it to crickets, and my issue is player related, which pfg would have a larger sample base
I've never had so much an issue save with this batch of people, and it's honestly getting me down, anon, feels like they don't give a shit so long as I'm "entertaining them"

>>50145107
>Do they just not care?
Anon, you know the answer to this.

>>50145213
>none of my friends put any effort into giving a shit about 4e
I wonder why

>>50145256
then they probably just don't actually give a shit. I suggested 5e not because i think its better than pathfinder, but because its lite and simple comparatively. If you feel like you're not getting anything out of GMing i wouldn't go on doing it. Its supposed to be fun for everyone, including you

>>50145107
I find players learn better when, instead of handing them a textbook and saying "do your homework," you walk them through character creation and use the first session to teach them basics of how to play. That way, they get the rules they actually need to know, and can read the rest with a foundational understanding of things.

>>50145213

Speaking of which, I've got a couple games coming up this week I'd rather get liquored up for, does anyone have some suggestions on good alcohol I could get proper smashed on before joining the session call?

Ive been using Ole Smoky Apple Pie but I want variety.

>>50145107
>>50145141
As a DM who gets high before sessions I can confirm being fucked up does make things harder. Tho I have realized that not getting completely smashed will at least make it doable

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Question time! Let's have some fun.

Tell me about your character/build ideas that deep down you secretly know you'll never get a chance to make.

>>50145289
The difference is that this isn't a campaign, this is a oneshot that is leading up to a campaign, I just wanted to see if they gelled with the game.
Despite assurances about how interested they are, most of them are in no way prepared for the game, and because it is taking place at a hookah lounge shop, I don't have 2+ hours to review mechanics repeatedly.
>>50145303
A good sipping bourbon/scotch/rum.
For bourbon, buffalo trace. For scotch, anything that's at least a 10 year, below that, has a plastiquey taste. For rum, Kraken, period.
Throw in 2 rocks, sip it, be a fucking man.
>>50145282
It's... it's not fun, man. I just left my long time group because it wasn't fun, and I'm already miserable. The thought of having to spoonfeed fucking adults shit that they could have read in a weekend but "didn't have time to" grates against me in such a fashion, my teeth are grinding just from typing it
I'm going back to listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt1Pwfnh5pc
You understand, don't you, Cash?

>>50145303
Yeah.
COFFEE.

It's fucking obnoxious when someone starts getting hammered during a session. Triply so when it's the GM. And by that I mean *the person* starts acting far more obnoxious.

>>50145432
Fighter that's focused on Bravery

>>50145439
Remember the golden rule anon

No game is better than a bad game

If they're not gonna take it seriously, why should you torment yourself. Stop running it for them unless they want to be serious.

>>50145432
well i had this great idea for actually getting to play a character

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>>50145460
Things focused on courage can be pretty awesome.

... but the fighter ability is trash.

>>50145439
Honestly? If they're not into it, don't run it. Period. Use a quick-play rules light system, like Everyone is John or Actual Cannibal Shia Labeouf or The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, which probably play better while drunk if anything.

>>50145489
There's enough feats and abilities based on Bravery by now that it can be used as a full thing, plus all the bonus feats means the Fighter can still be usable.

Next week one of my players is out of town, leaving two players. I'm doing a level 20 one-shot over Saturday/Sunday with them and was wondering with /pfg/ had any ideas or helpful insight to a newish DM.

>>50145584
inb4
>fighter
>usable

>>50145662
but it is useable because of advanced weapon and armor training

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>trying to figure out a fun weapon to use with URogue Finesse for theorycraft purposes
>Don't want weebshit, sick of scimitars, and light weapons don't do it for me
>Finally settle on the Estoc, the big ol' metal spike of a sword
>Can't even go with this choice if I can't get Kensai/Bladebound modded to work with spheres and also not get dicked on
>can't get the image out of my mind, and it's completely amazing

On a scale of "Holy Needle" to "weapon for degenerates", how paladin-like is an Estoc?

>Remember that my tiefling is 92~ years old, older than most sandpoint residents and older than the town itself
>Even if he was a shut-in, he would have had to have met Nualia at least once
>mfw they would be polar opposites in backstory and campaign motivations, and the confrontation would be absolutely glorious

A damn shame I doubt I'll have time, or even get in, to that campaign. Brainstorming for it is pretty fun, though.

>>50145676
estocs are fine for paladins. Sometimes you just gotta spear a degenerate through the fucking chest

But it does make you a fucking degenerate dexfag who deserves to be put down like the dog you are

>>50145656
>level 20 one-shot
Don't do this if you are new.
You have no idea what you are getting in to.

>>50145432
I want to play a Warder that wears full plate and uses a tower shield + greatsword via Stupendous Strength.
But that's absolutely trash as a build. 15 foot speed, 16 ACP, 50% less damage... all for okay-ish AC and a gimmicky cover mechanic. It's just so, so bad compared to, like, a DD Warder. Or hell just a normal Warder with a breastplate and heavy shield.
Ugh, man. Ugh.

>>50145674
I know that, but meme-ers gonna meme.

>>50145451

I'm not one of those people that get obnoxious, I've gamed plenty of times well-buzzed and I can't recall ever doing something I regretted the next day.

>>50145439

I've tried Buffalo Trace, doesn't have the sharpness of other bourbons. I'll have to check Kraken and Trace out.

>>50145709
The two players I have aren't new. They have played 3.5 and PF for a while.

They said they want a high level (15ish) or max level one shot since it doesn't happen very often in normal gameplay and our highest current campaign just got to 8.

>>50145751
It's not whether you remember it or not anon, it's whether you did it.

Not remembering we sorta can expect if you got drunk.

Guys I need help deciding what my next character should be
Do I go full anime with a Fool's Errand focused character or do I go for a more normal fantasy character with an Iron Tortoise focus?
I like the flavor of both, but the Fool's Errand one gets to do cooler shit and is mechanically better than the overall "meh" Iron Tortoise.
What do i do? Both fit the party and game just fine.

after seeing how garbage other threads on this board can be suddenly i care less about this one being full of lewd shitposts

>>50145701
Excellent, and carrying a big needle for a sword fits when your main element is electricity and you grew up being called "lightning rod", so this is all coming together nicely.

Hey now, not everyone can be SWOLE MC'PUNCHDUDE. I don't have to do a little dance for your approval, even if I am good at it.

>>50146100
>SWOLE MCPUNCHDUDE

excuse me its
RIPPED MCPUNCHLADY and you will respect it.

How do I make my players roll perception without them instantly going on the defensive

In my last session I had my players roll perception to see if they noticed a trail of blood droplets on the floor, and they instantly stopped everything they were doing and started tapping all the walls and floor with 10ft sticks because they assumed it was trapped.

Should I just roll for their character and let them know if they see anything, or simply just make them specifically say they want to roll perception every time?

>>50146207
roll it in secret for them, yeah.

if they ask, let them

>>50146207
If they are going to metagame that badly, you have three options.

Keep fucking with them with perception rolls. (Pebble in shoe, splinter in finger, ect). Teach them that perception rolls aren't the end all.

Option two, roll in secret. Some players ahte this, but if they are just going to do exactly what the did, fuck them.

Option three, have them roll a few rolls before the game for you. Use them in order and cross them out as you use them.

>>50146207
Option 1: Tell him to stop metagaming. It can be hard, especially in situations like these, but the game's more fun when he doesn't.

Option 2: Roll it in secret. But the problem is I've never remembered to write down their perception, and players get even more suspicious when you say, "hey, what's your perception score?" *roll roll*

Option 3: Ask them to roll various things at random times, or just start rolling some of your own dice, then look up and say, "Okay. Continue." They get really fuckin' paranoid, but after a while they learn they don't know when you're serious.

Option 4: My personal favorite. Ask them to roll before describing something else. Something they would have seen anyway.. Like:
"Hey player, roll perception."
>Fail...
"You see a broken down cart on the road a little ways ahead of you."
>Or if they pass...
"You see a broken down cart on the road a little ways ahead of you, and catch a glimpse of a hooded figure lurking in the bushes next to the cart."

The last one is tricky, because it require you to be clever and think ahead.

>>50142684
good guy anon

>>50146129
I assumed that the MCPUNCHDUDE would infer that you are punching dudes, but I guess that works too. Equal opportunity punchings are how things should be!

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>>50146100

Not everybody applying is a big tough punch-lady!

Some of us have really, really cool swords!

So what are the best Mauler familiars in terms of:

>Natural attack cycles
>Total strength
>Overall versatility
Let's assume I'm a Fighter with one from Eldritch Guardian so he shared my combat feats.

Right now I'm looking at Flying Fox.

Also something I noticed is that you can give Familiars AWT and AAT using the AWT and AAT feats. If I, as a Fighter, give up Heavy Armor training then take the feat, and in addition take Exotic Weapon Proficency. My familiar can be put into armor and use that weapon.

Then with AWT he can ALSO have warrior spirit and the like.

How can one make full use of this? Does it make using a familiar with hands worth it, or stick to them using Nat Attacks?

Hey, everyone! You’re likely already aware of Drop Dead Studio’s Spheres of Power alternate magic system for Pathfinder, and the fact that there’s going to be a book that expands upon the options presented for each of the system’s twenty spheres. I was fortunate enough to write for the upcoming book on the Mind Sphere, tentatively titled The Mentalist’s Handbook. As with the other handbooks, we’re of the opinion that many minds make light work and many eyes spot more errors than just a few, so in the interest of building better books feel free to help yourself to an early sneak peak at the material presented herein! For a type of magic that has traditionally vacillated wildly between overpowered and underpowered, we’re excited to hear if any options effortlessly smash apart encounters that your GM spent dozens of hours preparing, or if any options are so amazingly inefficient as to be effectively unplayable. And hey, if our spelling, grammar, or punctuation isn’t up to par, we can use that feedback as well. Worst case scenario: you might not find anything to comment on, but you can still have fun with it around your game table!


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kp4acH7zTk4e3DfPdYDfTk1jJClly3yp27Jfrf3FRWw/edit?usp=sharing


Feel free to drop any comments here, on the document itself, or in both places. Mistakes, weird rules interactions, typos, questions about situational applications of rules, and any other relevant questions or issues are welcomed. We might not be able to respond to it all, but every comment will be appreciated. Thanks!

Is it entierly unreasonable to ask if I can play a Lore Warden/Eldritch Guardian, since Expertise replaced Bravery 1, could I ask if it just replaced Steel Will 1?

Also what's the heaviest armor I can reduce to 0 ACP? If I don't go Lore Warden I need to get my monkey into plate armor somehow.

What tables do you guys generally keep on the GM screen? I'm a poorfag, so I'm just going to improvise one from some shit I have lying around, but figured I might as well keep some of the cheatsheets on there. I already have the tables for weapons, some general spells, and general items.

So here is what I have thought up:

>be Eldritch Guardian Fighter
>get Warrior spirit
>use to give the Training Enhancement
>which give you a combat feat
>for Advanced Weapon Training
>which gives both you and your familiar and Advanced Weapon Training
>for an item mastery feat
>for teleportation mastery
>both you and the familiar teleport in

Is one a bad person for doing this? This kind of bullshit was clearly not intended.

How would YOU fix tower shield?
My GM is willing to make them not shit and I need ideas.

>>50146664
>List of the PC's saves, sense motive, perception, appraise, any other skill that could be rolled opposed
>short list of NPC names, Business/Organization names, etc. in case you get stuck while improving
>Short list of enemies you were planning on using and either page numbers or quick stats to get combat started while you pull up their pages

>>50146669
Sounds legit.

>>50146497
Mithril Full Plate with Fusing and Steelbone Frame and Armor Expert iirc.

>>50146707
Thanks, added the PC saves. I got the rest covered in my general notes.

>>50146669
Nah, all things considered it's not that big a deal to be able to teleport as a fighter. It's arguably less cheesy than the Brawler 1/Fighter X build (using Martial Flexibility to get AWT: Item Mastery).

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>>50142835
>>50146669
Actually, giving martials options was pretty much the purpose behind Weapon Master's Handbook. So, it may well have been intended.

Either way, revel in it.

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>>50146363
You. I like you. You seem cool. People who like cool swords can't be that bad.

fuck why dont' I have any 8-bit theater fighter images, I am a failure of a shitposter

>>50146701

Remove the attack penalty, halve the ACP, make the Cover mechanic constant unless you've attacked that turn.

>>50146701
So let's look at the Tower Shield Specialist:
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/tower-shield-specialist

In this archetype using tower shields aren't so bad, however it requires taking the archetype.

If we instead cut up the archetype into feats it'd be fine. Make the later ones require the earlier. Make it have a Strength requirement similar to TWF. Bring down the level requirements by 2 for each.

There you go.

Possibly combine the first two so it's a 3 feat chain. I think that's reasonable.

>>50146727
>>50146711
>>50146728
I suppose. It just seems like giving yourself Training was an unintended consequence.

By RAW it lets you shuffle around skill ranks between a number of skills covered by Versatile and Adaptable Training. Which doesn't seem right. Giving myself the Training enhancement with Warrior Spirit to suddenly change my 20 ranks in intimidate to bluff shouldn't be a thing.

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>>50146735

Ever since discovering the Shashka I can't not imagine that's what an Aldori dueling sword should be, the videos I'm seeing of this thing are bloody fantastic and fit the idea of a Scarlet Throne user perfectly.

We are all failed shitposters, anon-kun, me especially.

Where are the Armor/Shield Mastery Feats?

d20pfsrd isn't up to date, and the Fighter is clearly missing some AWT/AAT, and it's missing all the Shield Mastery and Armor Mastery feats. What should I do? Are they all just in the Armor Master handbook?

>>50146772
Ehhh, it's easy enough to fluff around. "Hey, this sword of mine possesses me and uses its own memories to do what it wants to do, I'm signifying that by using Warrior Spirit to get Adaptable: Versatile Training".

>>50146788
Whenever I read Wheel of Time, I imagine the Heron Blade as a Shashka.
As well as all the swords the Asha'man use.

>>50146855
No, you don't understand.

I have 20 ranks in Intimidate. I use Training to grab Versatile Training to get 20 ranks in intimidate. This immediate retrains those 20 ranks. I retraining it into Bluff. When warrior's spirit runs out there is no reason to believe those 20 ranks snap back to Intimidate.

Essentially you have a short list of skills (Bluff, Intimidate, Two for your weapon group/Acrobatics, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (engineering), Profession (soldier), Ride, or Swim)

You can shuffle skill ranks between these by grabbing it with training, choosing a skill among these you have ranks in, and moving those ranks to another skill.

THAT seems unintended.

>>50146903
Unintended? Maybe. Is it going to break anything whatsover? Naaaaaah.

>>50146701
A GOOD shield has missile launchers on its underside, or at least a couple of panzerfausts.

>can't post picture, connection so slow loading times out before 50%

>>50146942
It basically means a Fighter with this has 13 extra skill ranks per level. It makes him a better skill monkey than quite a few classes if he chooses the right weapon group.

I think it might be a bit too strong honestly.

>>50147002
Rogues have better nova damage, more of attribute SAD-ness (assuming Unchained), and more skillmonkey-ing than almost anything else anyway. Bards are still better skillmonkeys because they can supplement their talents with magic. Brawlers can flex their way into not needing extra skill ranks.

It's a powerful option for Fighters, don't get me wrong, but more skill points isn't enough to make them "too strong". If you could somehow give them a better-than-full-BAB progression then yes, we'd have a problem on our hands, but skills by themselves aren't all that strong.

Anyone feel like posting character art?
Character art of MANLY WARRIORS IN BIG ARMOR WITH BIG SHIELDS AND BIG WEAPONS?

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>>50147045
It's not much, but here's something MANLY.

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>>50147045

Why not just a big weapon?

Besides, character art where you can actually see the guy's face >>> art where you can't.

>>50147044
Rogues do far worse damage than fighters, what are you talking about?

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>>50147045

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I think I must have asked before, but it got buried. What's /pfg/'s opinion on Phantom Thief Rogue? With URogue, obviously, since anything less is a travesty. How about Phantom Thief Rogue when used in a gestalt game?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/phantom-thief-rogue-archetype

>>50147044
I find it either that I'm the only one who thinks the whole warrior spirit -> training -> AWT/AAT OR brawler -> AWT/AAT is a bit of a stretch. It's extremely strong compared to most other martials. A correctly build fighter already blows most other martials out of the water (allowed VMC, which is can afford because bonus feats it blows pretty much all of them out).

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>>50147045

>>50147091
It's not too bad. Losing Sneak Attack completely hurts a lot when it comes to damage, but Unchained Skills and extra combat feats and SLAs are almost enough to make up for nova'ing by replacing it with sheer utility. If you have access to it I'd probably pair it up with Hidden Blade though, so that you can get those sweet Gambits and have access to Veiled Moon.

>>50147091
It can be interesting as at level 14 you can craft all magic items, for instance. However losing Sneak Attack hurts quite a lot.

It makes you a fantastic skill monkey but rips away most of your combat potential.

In a Gestalt Game it isn't nearly as bad of a problem however.

>>50147091
Seems to be a good skill monkey gestalt half with the added dexfagging if you wanted. Would probably be pretty good with Hidden Blade, as you hurt your damage with losing SA.

8/10 would gestalt with an Alchemist, Investigator, or Magus. Much lower if non-gestalt.

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>Paizo tries to hype up Absalom as the hub of the setting
>Ends up scrapping the whole thing after people love a sleepy lil town in Varisia more

>>50147207
What town? What are you talking about?

>>50147225

Absalom was designed as the "hub" of the setting and the place adventurers would be hanging out all the time.

That was years ago, how much have they actually done to develop the city more than those first couple books? Meanwhile, every single building in Sandpoint is accounted for, and pretty much half of all the citizens have been given at least a name and sentence description of who they are and what they do.

Heck, they did the same thing with Korvosa, and it's one of the most interesting cities in the game.

>>50147271
How large are Korvosa and Sandpoint?

Part of the problem might be the fact Absalom is absolutely enormous.

Korvosa has a population of 18k
Sandpoint a population of 1200

Absalom has a population of over 300k.

>>50147320
>a village with a population of 2-3 large high schools gets more support than a giant city
Paizo confirmed for lazy uninspired shits

>>50147345
It's gets boring hearing about "mark corded #517, dock loader". Most urban folk's lives are boring.

>>50147320
>>50147383
>Absalom has a population of over 300k.

Kalsgard has a population of 72k and it's just as detailed as Korvosa.

>>50146399
Problem is your familiar doesn't have a weapon training bonus, as it's not a fighter, so Warrior Spirit isn't likely to do much.

>>50147425
It doesn't use Warrior's spirit, you do in order to give it feats. At no point does it use a weapon training bonus in this exchange. You take warrior spirit as your normal AWT.

>>50147207
To be fair Sandpoint has like 1200 people in it making it way easier to flesh out than Absalom or even Magnimar.

>>50147002
You can only flex into Bluff, Intimidate, and the skills for groups you actually have weapon training for. So, unless you're giving up AWT's for picking up WT for groups beyond your first, is only 2 more skills.

>>50147537
Incorrect, you can also do it for the long list for AAT's Adaptable Training.

>>50147491

Yeah but Kalsgard, Magnimar, Korvosa and even Kintargo are more comfy than Absalom ever was.

>>50147576
Very true. I guess unless you play Pathinder Society it probably doesn't be get much usage

>>50147345
>2-3 large high schools
Country nigger confirmed.

I lived in the 'burbs and there were like 3000 kids at my school.

>>50147674
I may have gotten my total student population and graduating class size mixed up. The high school I went to was a 6A school or something.

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>>50147674
>I lived in the 'burbs and there were like 3000 kids at my school.

Shit, really? I went to a suburban high school too and there were only about 600 students in the entire building.

>>50147457
Ok, I misread what you were saying as what >>50146669 is trying to do. Which doesn't work as
a) the familiar doesnt have weapon training
b) AWT requires you to be wielding a weapon from a group you have WT with

>>50147830
This AWT gives you a feat, which getting this bonus feat doesn't actually stop functioning when you put down the weapon (according to paizo).

>>50148034
Which feat? AWT the feat also doesn't work unless you have WT:
>Benefit: Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you have already selected with the weapon training class feature.

>>50148056
Ah, that's what you mean. Then yeah it doesn't work. Same with AAT.

Is there any good spell point rules for PF? Or 3.5 version would work good enough?

>>50148082
on the other hand, you can double dip on barroom brawler feats with your eldritch guardian familiar, as you can use BB to give a feat to yourself and your familiar, and then your familiar can BB to give another feat to itself.

>>50148098
Pretty sure the 3.5 rules work, as nothing changed for casting mechanics between 3.5 and pf.

I'm starting to think keeping Armor Training might be worth it over Mutation Warrior with Advanced Armor Trainings.

DR 8/-, +5AC, Amored Sprinting, and more.

What is anyone's thoughts on it?

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What the hell is going on in the forum for the RotJR game?

https://app.roll20.net/join/1770733/2aujeQ

>>50148223

Touhou freaked out because "don't be a douchebag" is too ambiguous for him.

>>50148223
Don't bring drama onto the thread on purpose.

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>>50148223
>posted the Join link
are you supposed to be doing that?

>>50148223
The hell is RotJR?

>>50148304
If these threads have an A-ok on magical realm weeaboo shit then drama shouldn't be that much different

>>50148319

The DM is a shameless slut for shoving as many filthy strangers into his player list as he can.

>>50148367
>The hell is RotJR?

Rise of the Jade Regent, it's a name coined for the campaign since it starts with Book 1 of Rise of the Runelords, but then moves onto Jade Regent.

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>>50148372

Ok, so what are your favorite fighter archetypes and favorite VMCs for fighter.

My favorite archetypes are:
Eldritch Guardian
Lore Warden
Mutation Warrior
Drill Sergeant

VMCs
Barbarian
Oracle
Bard
Cavalier

Someone is gonna reply "my favorite archetype is playing a wizard" without reading this spoiler, they can go fuck themselves

>>50148415

My favorite archetype is fucking myself.

Oh, and Viking.

>>50148268
Tell me more.

>>50148415
Myrmidon, Viking, Lore Warden, and Mutation Warrior are all fun. VMC Wizard is great if you're a Divination-specialist for that wonderful initiative bonus.

>>50148428

That's really all there is to what happened; Touhou asked the DM "how optimized he should be," the DM gave a very simple "don't make anything that would ruin the fun of the other players," and Touhou just kept hammering the question because he wanted specific numbers.

>>50148098
>>50148147
4th and 6th level casters gain more spells/day and gain them earlier

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>>50148461
>the DM gave a very simple "don't make anything that would ruin the fun of the other players,"
No Path of War then?

>>50148415
Mutation warrior just so that I get a free fly and can always hold a potion in one hand

VMCwould be either Sorc or Magus

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>>50148514
Oh (you)

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>>50148514

You're a cheeky little bugger, you know that?

>>50148514
What's the deal with Path of War then? What makes Path of War the Book of Weeaboo Fightan Magic of pathfinder?

>>50148578
>What makes Path of War the Book of Weeaboo Fightan Magic
The fact it's a port of the same system?

>>50148547
>>50148569
>>50148578
Let's allow low level martials to blow out every combat encounter with fucktarded damage and say "lolnope, countered" to whatever enemies throw at them.

Totally fair, guys.

>>50148578
>What makes Path of War the Book of Weeaboo Fightan Magic of pathfinder?
Because it literally IS the Book of Weeaboo Fightan Magic(with serial numbers filed off) for Pathfinder.

>>50148609

Gee anon, maybe that's a sign a Path of War campaign should start at level 5+?

You shouldn't find knights killing goblins in the middle of nowhere.

>>50148609
Yeah, actually.

>>50148609
Once a turn, and once a turn.
I bet you thought pre-errata Crane Style and current Snake Style are broken too, don't you?

>>50148609

You're the reason DMs ban barbarians because "they're too powerful."

>>50148609
You mean what your average semi-decently built Barbarian could already do at low levels?
Or just any caster with Color Spray?

Plus levels 1-4 are shot rustydagger rocket tag and horribly balanced in the base game anyway

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>>50148631

>tfw I will never join a high-level PoW campaign

IT'S
NOT
FAIR

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>>50148461
Where do you draw the line between 'OP' and 'not OP' in a DSP/SoP/NJolly/ertw gestalt free for all with free feats?

>>50148631
This is as ass backwards of an argument as people saying wizard over 11th level should blow martials out of the water in every way.

>>50148578
Yes essentially. It has tons of balance issues, but so does Paizo's stuff. So basically I just say "fuck it what ever".

Don't expect tier 3 and below to contribute meaningfully compared to a PoW character, but besides that you're fine.

>>50148461
That's very fair, in my opinion. What ruins the fun for one group isn't the same as what will ruin the fun for another. That's why recommendations are almost always "Build with your group in mind"

>>50148681
>Where do you draw the line between 'OP' and 'not OP' in a DSP/SoP/NJolly/ertw gestalt free for all with free feats?

Justice Potter Stewart probably said it best,

>"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["overpowered"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the build involved in this case is not that."

>>50148658
>Plus levels 1-4 are shot rustydagger rocket tag and horribly balanced in the base game anyway
You realize literally the entire game is rocket tag, at every level, right? At no time is rocket tag not a thing.

>>50148647
>Once a turn, and once a turn.
Tell that to Tidal Blade, Scything Strike, etc.

>>50148658
>You mean what your average semi-decently built Barbarian could already do at low levels?
Bitch, you can be a PoW barbarian with rage AND maneuvers.

>Or just any caster with Color Spray?
Color Spray isn't actually that reliable. You have to get really up close to use it, probably make a concentration check, risk hitting allies, etc.

>>50148710
>Scything Strike

Isn't that just Cleave? A feat that stops being useful after the levels Scything Strike stops being useful?

>>50148692
>Don't expect tier 3 and below to contribute meaningfully compared to a PoW character, but besides that you're fine.
You fail to understand Tiers and how they function, especially since most PoW stuff is High T4-highT3 to begin with.

>>50148735
Cleave is worse than Scything.

>>50148735
But unlike normal martials PoW characters get to trade it out for free!

>>50148737
Tiers are all about versatility, both in and out of combat, and how many ways a character can approach a problem.

You're the one failing to understand it.

PoW characters are in their tier because they lack meaningful out of combat utility. Their in combat utility vastly outperforms every tier 3 character, as well as their defensive and offensive suites.

You're the retard here.

>>50148710
>Bitch, you can be a PoW barbarian with rage AND maneuvers
Except those maneuvers take away your rage powers, and you'll still be better off using Rage+Full Attack for optimal damage.

Also, your statement did not address or answer the previous statement at all, it just announced to screeching "B-but look at this Barb archetype!" Without stress then point the previous statement made about the currently extant potency of barbarians

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>>50148698
>>50148707
This works IF you're building characters together as a group, but it doesn't really work if everyone's just submitting apps with sheets because then you won't know the PCs you'll be playing with.

>>50148791
>and you'll still be better off using Rage+Full Attack for optimal damage.
Actually you're better off using a full attack maneuver for Rage+Full Attack+Extra Damage

>>50148710
>You have to get really up close to use it, probably make a concentration check, risk hitting allies, etc
Oh no god forbid you have to actually position properly to use your "end encounter" button

>>50148791
If barbarians are fine, then Primal Disciples AREN'T fine because they're barbarians+++++

All those maneuvers and stances are just BETTER.

Have you ever seen a Primal Disciple swinging Minute Hand/Rapid Strike, or Rising Zenith Strike?

>>50148737
Ok, here, let's try this.

Explain to me what a Magus or Inquisitor beings to the table in combat than a Harbinger or Warder does not?

>>50148758

And that's bad... How?

>>50148819
Meanwhile, the level 1 initiator in Reaching Blade Stance goes up and instakills 2 enemies on their first turn with Tidal Blade.
Repeat every encounter, heal up after every fight with Enduring Crane Strike.
Literally ALL DAY.

>>50148770
So why should you be bitching if PoW characters are functioning as intended for their Tier, when the game is more than just combat and the other non-combat focused T3 classes can still contribute effectively to narrative power?

You're essentially willingly walking into an fire, and complaining that's it's a tad too warn for you

>>50148827
They're not though. You lose a lot of what makes Barbarians good (the rage powers), and you're limited to a maximum of 6th-level initiating, which isn't all that great. Plus you need to now invest in WIS when before you could have left it at 10, which means less pointbuy for your STR and CON, which ends up being lower damage and survivability.

>>50148792
And that's why you ask the dm what power level you should aim for.

>>50148852
Enduring Crane doesn't actually work like that unless you're purposefully finding people to hit.

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>>50148792

Of course you will, anon! The DM's the one picking the characters!

If there's a build that sounds heckin' dumb than that character won't get picked!

Why are we having this EXACT SAME ARGUMENT again
Everyone just shut the fuck up every point or counterargument you want to make has been made at least 4 times by now

>>50148852
Yeah dude that guy hitting two dudes for 1d8+1d6+4 is totally worse than the wizard knocking the entire encounter unconscious

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>>50148871
But how will you know it's an OP build if you don't know what other PCs you'll be playing with?

You don't want to be that 1pp only tier 3/4 dude in a party of initiators, do you?

>>50148854
<So why should you be bitching if PoW characters are functioning as intended for their Tier, when the game is more than just combat and the other non-combat focused T3 classes can still contribute effectively to narrative power?
You're trying to reduce the entire games balance to a flawed tier system. The tiers are not the end all to describe what is and is not functional in the system by any means.

PoW forces a combat and out of combat divide in that they contribute highly effectively in combat, and not outside of it, and this forced tier 3 classes to try and contribute out of combat.

Let us look at the Magus, he is nearly incapable of contributing out of combat because his spell list doesn't support it, and is left behind in combat. Same thing with an inquisitor to a lesser extent.

It forces a schism where out of combat the PoW characters have their thumbs up their asses, and in combat the OOC focused tier 3 character do.

And for combat focused tier 3 first party characters (like the Magus) are hung out to dry.

>>50148910
>knocking the entire unconscious
>15 foot cone, party unfriendly
>takes a concentration check if you use it next to enemies
>limited spell slots

>if any enemies survive, the wizard is fucking dead

You know how many spell slots a level 3 wizard has? Not a lot.

>>50148873
I know this because I've made this same argument 4 times already. Still better than posting the same picture of a half naked kitsune for the 4th time.

>>50148830
>in combat
Mostly better access to CC and versatile bonuses.
Also, while they aren't as powerful as PoW characters, they can still 1shot most enemies with the right set-up, and have infinitely better out of combat use as well as being better at non-combat answers to combat options

>>50148915
>But how will you know it's an OP build if you don't know what other PCs you'll be playing with?

Because the DM will be picking your partners, anon-kun.

The DM would not put a 1pp fuck-girl in a group of initiating studs, she'd get struck senseless in all sorts of stances.

>>50148834
It's totes op

>>50148915
It's what I'm making, and I feel fine with that! I'd be more worried if everyone in the party was Initiator gestalted with Wizard or Cleric, or worst of all with Druid! If it's Initiator-gestalt-martial or skillmonkey, I'm still on their level!

>>50148954
>Mostly better access to CC and versatile bonuses.
A initiator has better access to crowd control, buffing, and debuffing than a Magus does. What are you talking about?

>and have infinitely better out of combat use
>Magus
>OOC
No seriously, what fucking class are you looking at? Magus suck a big bag of donkey dicks outside of combat.

>as well as being better at non-combat answers to combat options
Not a magus.

Explain to me what they bring OOC that a PoW character can't accomplish better. Magus has absolutely garbage OOC.

>>50148858
That's what 2hu did and the GM gave a wishy washy non answer.

>>50148919
Really, even in 1pp the magus is a little shafted. Sure he's got a ton of cool spells, but his list lacks GOOD variety oh boy I wonder if shocking grasp and bladed dash are on THIS magus's list of prepared spells? Yes? WHAT A SURPRIIIIIISE or staying power. "Wow I can probably chunk this one dude" is cool, until you realize you now have absolutely nothing to spend on the 20 other dudes sitting there ready to shank your ass.

Magus's OOC utility is practically the bare minimum a class should ever have.

Let me get this straight
We all agree that casters are greater than martials, yes?
When a druid outperforms a fighter in melee while also casting spells better than the bard people just take it as par for the course, maybe grumbling a bit.
Well why the fuck isn't it like that for initiators? Yes they are better than martials, they were meant to be. What's the big deal? I don't understand.

>>50148984
Can you stop using OOC for out of combat? Use Noncombat Utility or something, I keep thinking you're asking for out-of-character shit.

>>50148999
Exactly, which is why I don't see what's up with the complainin' 'bout askin' the question.

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>>50148966
>>50148979
Doesn't that mean you basically have to guess what power level the DM wants when submitting your gestalt app?

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>>50149016
Because that's not a good thing you baiting chuckledick.

>>50148999
There's a difference between "what's the power level of this?" and what actually happened, which was basically as follows:
>"Gestalt naturally is higher-powered, so that means I can play a super high-powered option that warps the narrative around my finger, right?"
>"No, even if Gestalt is more powerful than normal games, that doesn't give you carte blanche to break the game."
>"I disagree with that and think it gives you every right to do that, and here's my reasoning."

Etc...

>>50148919
>Same thing with an inquisitor to a lesser extent.
Anon, the Inquisitor spell list is absolutely FILLED with non combat and combat versatility spells, they get Detect/anti-Lie SLAs, really good skill bonuses, a wide array of domains and inquisitions to choose from, and that's all on top of good combat skill. Plus they rely on the second most useful stat in the game.
They are the perfect middle ground between combat and utility. If you think they are a "Combat Focused T3", you've obviously never played one and don't know what your talking about.

Hell, I can't even remember the last time my inquisitor in Giantslayer ever used a combat spell, since he usually just Banes enemies to death, and Intimidates the fuck out of most NPCs and enemies

>>50149056
Sshhhh.

>>50148698
>>50149025
2hu was being a total dick about asking it though.

The GM told 2hu to just use common sense, 2hu was being unreasonable for hammering the question.

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>>50149034
That's how I'm reading it as

>>50149034
Yes, actually. If you're applying for a game with that many potential people and only a set amount of slots, then suck it up and make something you THINK will work. If you're wrong, then tough luck you were wrong.

What do YOU think is a T4/T3 character that will be fun to play while not completely-outshining everyone else? That should be what is being made, not laughingstock Adept/Kineticists and not god-mode Wizard/Selfbuff Clerics

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>>50148609

>>50149070
Let's not forget 2hu is actually autistic and likely had no idea that lines were being crossed

>>50149013
So the thing is, a Bard, Inquisitor, Magus, Warpriest, and Alchemist can contribute to a party of initiators, but in combat they only really can under two circumstances:
>Heavy focus into battlefield control (which some of these don't have)
>Focus on a cancerous style (like being a Monster Tactician inquisitor)

Out of combat they can, but some of the classes (Magus/Inquisitor) are barely better at pulling their weight OOC than a PoW, and worse than some of them.

So the question is. How do these compare really?

I'm being honest. If you can make to me a compelling argument on how a Magus does not become eclipsed by a PoW character at a reasonable level of play, I'll relent.

>>50149059
That's not what Touhou was saying at all.

>it would be a good idea to lay out some benchmarks for what you consider an "ideal" optimization level. Different players have different standards of "optimized enough" and "game-breaking" for regular characters alone (e.g. one person might think it par for the course for a 3rd-level initiator to one-shot high-CR enemies with a 100% success rate using rising zenith strike, while another player might disagree). What people consider "optimized enough" and "game-breaking" for gestalt is even more difficult to tell, because the rift between optimization floor and ceiling is vastly magnified in a gestalt game, and the "sweet spot" is rather fuzzy (e.g. one player's idea of "optimized enough" is a slayer|sorcerer, while another person might consider on an optimized initiator|spherecaster who cherry-picks the best of disciplines, sphere talents, and drawbacks to be perfectly reasonable in a gestalt game).

>Different players have different thresholds of "broken" even for races. Some might consider aasimar to be "broken," other players might place the "broken" threshold at flying races like the strix and the syrinx or construct races like the wyrwood, and others still might only consider races like the drider and the gargoyle to be "broken."

Another way to help ensure a stable power level is to request that, once proper applications are open, all players are to limit the mechanical side of their application to nothing more than race and class (e.g. "zenko kitsune psychic warrior [meditant, pathwalker] 3|soulknife [free gifted blade, psychic armory, war soul] 3"), so that characters can be judged primarily for their non-mechanical facets. This lets players lay their claims on builds, while reserving an intragroup conversation on desired optimization level for after all players are selected. Even so, however, it would align expectations for you to preemptively announce what races you consider "broken,"

>>50148979
>>50149034

No, it means the ideal thing to do when making your gestalt is pick something you think would be fun.

This is an AP, not a custom-molded gangbang ribbed for your pleasure, you could build *anything* and it will probably dominate the campaign.

That's it, that's the secret. Just build a character that feels fun, looks fun, and plays fun, like a cute wolf-girl or retired swordsman who likes to paint.

>>50148945
(You)

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>>50149094
>What do YOU think is a T4/T3 character that will be fun to play while not completely-outshining everyone else?

Would you let a gestalt GiftedBlade/PsyArm/WarSoul || Meditant/Pathwalker zenko in your game?

>>50149107
Part of the problem is, admittedly, that the PoW1 disciplines are a mess in regards to balance. Broken Blade and Primal Fury are ridiculously-powerful compared to more reasonable disciplines like Iron Tortoise or Golden Lion, but even options like Thrashing Dragon and the like are stupid when it comes to "full-attack and stack all the boosts". So part of what makes the argument hard to properly fight against is that the errata to make PoW1 not overpowered hasn't been made yet.

>>50148870
Enduring Crane Strike works out of combat.

>>50149107
>Inquisitor) are barely better at pulling
See>>50149067
If you can't figure out how to use all your class based skill bonuses, stealth and investigation based spells and SLAs, and make good archetype and domain/Inquisition choices, you have no place talking about Inquisitors

>>50149067
You still do not outperform a zealot, for instance, out of combat. Or an Ordained Defender (the closes analogue to an inquisitor in PoW).

For a zealot he is a better skill monkey than you due to a large floating skill bonus.

For an ordained defender he ALSO gets your inquisition.

They both have stances that give them out of combat utility, with such things as flight, scent, invisibility, teleportation, etc.

Then a zealot also gives constantly telepathy and status, a big boon.

>tfw your group threw out all martials and anything with Vancian casting

I pity the dead who can no longer feel such joy
And also you fuckboys trying to play Magus in a party with a PsyWar, Warder and Tinker or whatever

>>50149144
Probably? Doesn't sound like you could do anything other than fighting really well. If I throw you at a stealth-mission or an investigation, or even a social event where you have to make nice with the noblemen in town, it sounds like you'd struggle to make use of all your nice powers and maneuvers. Even certain combats would be difficult, such as things with DR or miss chances. Tactical combat is one of the banes of initiators; grappling or tripping, for example, can put one on pause for at least a turn.

>>50149170
I'm saying they do not contribute to that greater of an extent than a PoW character at the same level of optimization. Particularly a Zealot due to their skill bonuses, and various class features.

>>50149059
>>50149070
>>50149103
What was Touhou trying to do?

Wheedle the GM into playing something overpowered or JAQing off to WHAT'S ALLOWED?

>>50149185
ACHTUALLY, PsyWars and Gifted Blades have some decent infiltration/social powers on their power list and you can get Wisdom to Bluff and Diplomacy.

>>50149194
>or JAQing off to WHAT'S ALLOWED?

This, really.

>>50149185
>grappling or tripping, for example, can put one on pause for at least a turn.

PsyArms say "fuck that" and just shoot you with a panoply.

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>>50149194
>>50149231
What's wrong with asking what the GM thinks is broken again?

I mean, some GMs think Rising/Ruby Zenith Strike is broken...

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>>50149256

The GM was openly advertising for /pfg/ players and encouraged Path of War content, fully aware of how autismal us hack-frauds can get.

>>50149176
>OHOHO LOOK AT THESE FUCKBOYS WANTING TO PLAY THINGS THEY FIND ENJOYABLE.

>>50149234
Can they shoot 4 people with a panoply all at the same time?
Can they guarantee that it'll kill the people that are trying to grapple them?
>>50149210
Really now? I wouldn't have thought that either would have good social options considering that they're primarily martials. That's actually kind of neat, thanks for telling me.

>>50149286
I just want to play an initiating antipaladin desu. Anti-paladin + Oracle is best combo. However because anti-paladin doesn't have an initiating archetype I'll probably have to do something else.

Or play an insinuator and use the bonus combat feats for martial training.

>>50149295
>Can they shoot 4 people with a panoply all at the same time?
Level 7 with Time Skitter... yeah, actually.

>Can they guarantee that it'll kill the people that are trying to grapple them?
Depends on their CR. And if they ARE grappled, the panoply doesn't give a shit.

>>50142333
>Playing a Paladin who fell from grace due to bullshit GM moral quandary.

>He was in the right so he never atoned, GM offers the chance to roll a new character but I won't take it. Nor will I retrain class levels or multiclass.

>Now GM is butthurt I'll go so far to defy him, the only reason he survives to this day is that somehow he's really inspired the other PCs into helping him. (They also kinda owe him since he's always been there for them.)

This group was pretty stale at first but now it's actually interesting at least.

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>>50149286
I just don't get why you're an autistic douchebag if you ask what's banned, what's allowed, and what power level the GM wants in a DSP/SoP/NJolly/ertw gestalt free for all with bonus feats?

>>50142612
8 players is too many, and tone theme and setting is entirely up to your GM and your group.

>>50149107
Anon, as far as magus is concerned I'm agreeing with you. I don't know the other classes well enough to comment. Unless the Magus is using spheres, they don't have the damage or consistency of an initiator, and even then they trail behind a bit.

>>50149345

He would've been fine if he accepted the first or even second answer, Fennec.

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>>50149256
>>50149286
Isn't Rising/Ruby Zenith Strike ACTUALLY broken on a Str/Wis initiator, like an OD/ZS warder?

>>50149374
Wasn't what happened.
Touhou got progressively more specific and asked about what races the GM thought was broken (GM said "no broken races" up front) and GM still didn't answer.

If you're banning "broken races" and you can't even say what those broken races are, that's just shit GMing.

>>50149419
Isn't it a hidden test about being That Guy?

If you think flying races aren't broken, then you're That Guy.

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>>50142684
I'm a shitter so I have to ask, why exactly does anyone "need" a guide? Also how is there any "bad" options and why are they "bad"?
Honestly both of these things just seem kind of meta. I've survived just picking what I want to play and think is practical and asking my friends about it.What is a guide supposed to do for me that isn't minmaxing? I don't really see why I should care about minmaxing. Is it supposed to help with making an outline for the character? If so then isn't the whole point to make your own creation?

>>50149419

Broken races probably refer to high RP monstrosities that have no business being in Sandpoint for the Swallowtail Festival.

That said, a Drow Noblewoman would be adorable.

What mauler hits the highest strength at level 3?

Right now I'm seeing it as the flying fox with:

9(base)+10(battle form, +8 for tiny->medium & +2 for battleform)+1(increased strength)

Anything get better than 20?

>>50149507

You're talking to people that often complain about a lack of game.

When you don't have game you start inflating what it means to be in game. Mountain out of molehill, that kinda thing.

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>>50149337

What was the quandary in question?

>>50149345

Another one?

>>50149507
Guides aren't just meant for minmaxing, they're also important for noting what may look like a "good" option but is actually a trap. For instance, Moment of Clarity looks like it's good for a Barbarian: you can use skills while in your rage! But in reality, you probably aren't going to be in a rage when you need to use skills that are banned during it (why are you rolling Diplomacy or UMD in a rage, for instance), and it still makes your rounds of rage tick down even when you're not doing anything useful with them. That's a trap option but it looks good, so a guide can help point that out and say "hey, this isn't good even if it looks safe".

>>50149507
Guides make sense as a quick reference for "can this class do what it says, and what parts of this class are functional?"

For example, a frostbite debuffer magus looks sick as fuck on paper to someone just looking at it, but in reality it may be completely worthless against half the stuff you encounter.

>>50149561
The thing that annoys me about moment of clarity is there's some neat stuff behind it.

>>50149561
What if you want to play a barbarian with a tophat and a monocle?

>>50149507
What >>50149592 says here is also a reason why guides are useful, to tell you when something is bad but leads into good things. Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike are awful feats, but they get you access to some really awesome stuff.

>>50149613
Then go ahead and have fun, but it's completely against what a Barbarian is designed to do. A wizard can be a guy in fullplate and a greatsword, but you'll be more effective if you're a Magus, an Alchemist, an Occultist, or a Bloodrager. There's nothing necessarily wrong about playing a class in an unintended way, but for newbies and veterans alike it's painful to see a huge gap in capabilities within the same party.

>>50149555
Kill or spare an evilrace baby. Very Original.

>>50142428
>Pugilist Stance
>Use Steel Fury Strike
>Bronze Knuckle
>Cestus 6ab: 1d4+3+5d6+2 three times
>Next Turn
>Sheath Cetus
>Initiate Silver Wave Strike
>Draw Cetus
>Recover Steel Fury Strike
>Cetus 8ab: 8+1d4+3+7d6+2 out to close range
>Next Turn
>Sheath Katana
>Draw Cetus
>Recover Silver Wave Strike
>Initiate Steel Fury Strike
>6ab: 1d4+3+3d6+2 three times
Rinse and repeat doing a big recovery if you need counters back.
How is this at all comparable to a cr 6 when played competently?
This is also ignoring deadly strikes and crits, if there is a lot of damage you also have the option of having blur instead of the 1d6 damage on broken blade strikes.

>>50149743
>not using Elemental flux stance for the 2d6, 4 dodge ac, 4 initiative and 15 electric resist
>not using a +1 keen katana instead of a cestus
>forgetting brutal strikes and the honor bushido with power attack
You have only begun to understand

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>>50149669

Not exactly a bold new direction in tabletop storytelling, no. Probably going to end with you getting martyred, but hey, how many times does a paladin get to jerk the GM's chain instead of the other way around?

>>50149743

>Rapidly drawing and sheathing cesti

Help me, I'm imagining the character looking like a Dark Souls character doing the dance and I can't stop laughing.

>>50149814
The thing he linked didn't have those things.
I was using his example of something cr 6 appropriate.

>>50149833
I mean to be fair you could also just rapidly draw and sheath the katana but then no using the cestus at close range.

>>50149337
Obviously the only answer is to make a deal with the devil and become a blackguard.
Fuck Paizo for not porting that PRC.

New thread
>>50149960
>>50149960
>>50149960
>>50149960

>>50149962
We are still on page six.

So I'm gonna ask again. What do people think the best familiars for Mauler are in terms of:

>Best natural attack cycle
>Best Strength
>Best overall utility

Right now I'm on Flying Fox for the following reasons:
20 str at level 3
Scent
Flying (enough strength to carry a PC with muleback cords)

This is from the perspective of an Eldritch Guardian, so it gets all the feats I do.

>>50149862
True, but my point was that you could push that even farther.

Assuming 20 str before brutal strikes, power attack, furious focus and level 7

First turn
>swift action spend a Ki point to get brutal strikes for wis rounds on all attacks from Brutal Assault
>initiate silver wave with +1 keen silversheen nodachi
>close range attack at a +13 dealing 1d10+17+8d6

Second Turn
>swift action Bronze Knuckle
>Initiate Steel Flurry Strike
>Three attacks at +13/+11/+11 each doing 1d10+21+7d6 and potentially hitting as vulnerable for +50% (excluding the 2d6 electric)
>with a crit chance of 15-20

And then you full round recover or something.
Using dual boost at 10 with bronze knuckle and either reflected blade style or minute hand.

God has adandoned us.

>>50150015
Flying Fox is not on the familiar list.
As for Natural Attacks, House Cat, Strength Compsognathus or Dwarf Caiman, utility ioun wyrd, but if you want utility avoid Mauler overall.

>>50150134
Yes it is:
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/familiar
>Bat, Flying Fox

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>>50150154
Since you have editing rights on the srd go fix stuff rather then make shit up.

>>50145676

have you not played DS3? Estocs are absolute cancer. the over powered cancer, not the bad cancer.

>>50149194
Touhou has proven themselves unable to do anything other than play the most optimal thing available, and demands that everyone else do the same, otherwise it's their fault for not performing well and being unhappy.

>>50149345
Because, in Touhoufag fashion, he didn't just ask once. He got answered, then asked three more times, continually ignoring any answers. The only thing he'd accept is the GM telling him the actual bonus caps that he's not allowed to go past.

Nobody even knows why he plays PF. He hates it, by self admission. It's like a ghost that hates being around the living, but haunts them anyway.