/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>50045549
>How does the World of Darkness celebrate Halloween?

Hard liquor mixed with tass/vitae/essence etc.

>>50045549
>>Because that faggot wont stop asking for it
Come on, man. It's my birthday. Do you really gotta keep up this bullshit?
No one is even asking for it, you're just starting shit.
Also that Mega doesn't have everything, that's why I included two of them.
Why are we still linking The Pack and Ghouls?

You're doing a terrible job of making these threads.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RCBCABuDOVM0qxHHtownvUiaaC5XAX6kJDQGZbMW6Kk/edit?usp=sharing

I wrote this over the course of an hour. It is basically an Arete 10 paradigm, but then again that is basically a perfect explanation of reality anyways

TLDR: Everything exists because of something else that is trying to exist because if it didn't try to exist it wouldn't exist. If you know why you exist you can potentially gain the means to change things so that they exist more in a way you like, to your best understanding of how to do that.

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>>50045810
>Consensual reality
Disgusting

>>50045626

Yeah and again that changes the setting Drastically. I get the point, its just not the game presented and it will always be a point of contention.

Like I said no longer a dark reflect of our own world, darknoble urban fantasy but high fantasy in the modern age with blood magic

>>50045866
I agree with that, but after hyping it up for a decade and a half they had to deliver somehow

>>50045858
Thats a misnomer. Its really only consensual if you have the means to say no and the knowledge you can, or one of the two and some luck

>>50045866
Friendo, you do realize that only VtM was actually a dark setting. It was about being all dark and angsty
WtA was about coping with the fact that you lost the war for Gaia
Mage was a game of hope where you could fix anything if you could get past the damn technocrats

Also only the supernatural saw that sorta thing happen, everyone else was lied to or covered up with Paradox

>>50045927
Consensual relates to consensus.
And given that people unconcsiously warp reality through the strength of their belief, they are committing to a consensus of "magic isn't real".

Thus, Consensual reality.

>>50045927
......

I just made old world of darkness into a setting where everyone is getting raped constantly because they don't know the cosmic safeword and/or can't speak up because they are gagged, metaphorically

brb committing seduku

>>50045904
meh not my fault they wrote themselves into a corner.

Honestly End Times cults are kind of bullshit in RL. Things have to end or the group disbands or the cult has to escalate crazy shit, or Drink the koolaid Johnstown style.

>>50045978
motherfucker did I not just say that was a misnomer?

>>50046004
And I was disagreeing, motherfucker.

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>>50045928
>children of a lost war in a world slowly dying
>overbearing authoritarianism hiding mankind's potential
Thats not exactly cheery funtime Anon

>Also only the supernatural saw that sorta thing happen, everyone else was lied to or covered up with Paradox

Thats lazy writing, and the expanded consequences would be terrible. also pic related

>>50045928
The other game lines were pretty dark. Paradox can't cover up entire continents being fucked over.

>>50046004
But it's not. Consensual reality really is just "this is what the majority of people believe".
Mages are simply people who's Paradigm can overwrite the primary reality.

The entire thing about the Ascension War is that the technocracy is winning and they're the dominant paradigm, and in doing so they've created a world where "magic" can exist within the mundane world.

>>50046080
>The other game lines were pretty dark. Paradox can't cover up entire continents being fucked over.
The planet was literally conquered by invading Eitherite in Zeppelins and everyone forgot. So yes, yes it can

>>50046080
I take the side that the Tech didn't so much Win the war, more like it let Humanity make a choice. Between Magic and Logic. and hey people liked a world where they didn't have to worry about illogical shit like dragons stealing daughters

Mankind wanted a world where everyone at least played by the same physical rules. and the Tech just play into that paradigm. A Tool that doesn't need an 'enlightened' soul to use, just something that's repeatably good.

Basically Science is not magic. and the Techs use science as magic to get shit done

>>50046107

>>50046077

>>50046107
When I mean "you can't" I don't mean "the setting doesn't allow that"; I mean that "the writers cannot reasonably expect to make that decision and not have it be considered bullshit".

>>50046176
The problem is that the Technocracy is just as much stupid bullshit wizards as the Traditions.

>>50046176
>Science is not magic
Not any more. Consensus has been achieved about that.
Meaning that at least the principles that are commonly accepted work like a treat.

>>50045927
Fuck off, Aspel.

>>50046004
>>50046053
Actually, that's just Aspel playing semantics again. Ignore them.

>>50046240
nono you don't understand

Science is not magic. The laws physics were in play at the beginning of time and you had to use magic to break it. This is the assumed rule set, and therefore the truth of the matter. You use magic to break the rules everyone else plays by, and get what you want

>>50046224
Yes and they use the scientific trappings to make it happen. It's all magic, but the Techs are playing closer to the shared belief of mankind.

>>50046329
>Science is not magic.
Tangential, but you want to know what the scariest fucking thing to me is as far as existential horror? That bullshit notion that our reality exists atop a bubble.

Scarier than anything Lovecraft ever came up with.

>>50046296
>>50046258
Neither of those are me.

>>50046450
>>>/d/

I'm still new to the oWoD and V:tM.

In the V20 releases or books that ended the old edition, did we ever learn more detailed information about Caine or the first and second generation progenitor vampires?

If so, is there a summary of this information somewhere?

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>>50046413
This shit. Mind my crappy paint job.

>>50046329
The conceit of the setting is that the layer beneath what we commonly interact with works on, shall we say, democratic principles. We walk around on the earth and we see ourselves but we can't use medical treatments derived from an understanding of the four elements and four humors because we've collectively decided that those are not the mechanisms beneath the hood.

I'll use a car analogy: You see a car. You turn the key. It makes noise and vibrates but you don't need to see or understand what's under the hood in order to use it to get around. If humanity had, over the course of it's long existence, decided that phoenix feathers and alchemical fire were what would be needed to make that car run, that's what you'd have found beneath the hood because we collectively agreed that that what was the most likely and rational way that the world operates.

But we didn't decide on that. We said "Physics, sanitation and a mechanistic universe are neat!" and so that car is powered by an internal combustion engine.

>>50046473
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Caine
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Generation

>>50046479
It is an interesting theory and metaphysical model and I can see the use of the irrational number i use in some technoamncer modelings. There also the idea of plato's cave and string theories holding the world together

All in all Nice idea

>>50046479
The concept of Boltzmann brains freaks me out more. In short, it's more likely you're a self-aware entity inhabiting a void than a self-aware entity produced by and inhabiting a complex natural world.

>>50046621
The rule set starts in the physical realm. You can't fly up you need magic to fly. That pretty heavily implies you need magic to break the rules other people follow.

Unless you want to go with the theory that a great decision was made in a more modern era and that decision was the applied retroactively, science was always the reality of the common man, and therefore Science is not Magic

>>50046751
>Unless you want to go with the theory that a great decision was made in a more modern era and that decision was the applied retroactively, science was always the reality of the common man, and therefore Science is not Magic

Okay. Yes, that's a fairly accurate description of how science works. This however, is a Roleplaying game based upon the idea that what we call magic and breaking the rules is, in actuality, the ability of someone who realizes that these things are not ironclad but subject to belief. In such a setting, it makes perfect sense.

And your statement is one long non-sequitur, it was a long process that began in the Renaissance and culminated with the slow unraveling of magical thinking and rise of the idea of an ordered mechanistic universe as the be-all, end-all.

>>50046859
How do you play in settings before the dark ages / renaissance era? By assuming common physical laws and letting magic break it.

you can say all you want about the setting, and yeah I get the point of magic unraveling. But I'm pretty sure stories of flying pigs were uncommon. The stories of Amazing deeds done by heros were awesoming were because they were so uncommon and cool. If flying was a common trait of mankind it wouldn't be noted as awesome but mundane and normal.

Magic left the world. revealing the mundane, i.e. Science cold logical, but not going to kill anyone because it had a tummy ache.

>>50047030
Again, see the car analogy. A car doesn't fly either. It does car things, whether or not we are blind to the underlying principles.

>>50046479
The void seems like a cool place, I wish I was there

>>50047105
The Car analogy assumes someone didn't build the car and therefore knows how to use work build and repair it to begin with. Stop using that analogy it doesn't hold water. beyond the use as is model.

The world can not work on metaphysical democratic principles Alone when the rule set starts with physics as been the unpinning commonality

Is there a bigger jobber in oWoD than Ventrue Antedeluvian? Went out like the biggest bitch

>>50047226
Yeah, but do you know where it can work like that?

In a roleplaying game.

>>50047307
I don't know how many times I've got to say this Yes you are right fluffwise BUT the rule set starts with physical laws and lets you break the rules everyone has to follow. Science is not magic

You know what does this idea better Awakening. That setting pretty much said. Reality is as we made it. and therefore beyond place and beyond time reality was modeled and crafted. and therefore Science could be magic, or could be the crafted model

Anyone got a kink to Changing Breeds? I want to personally see how bad it is.

>>50047409
Science isn't magic because it's agreed upon. To go back to the car analogy, the end user who drives the car is a sleeper. If he has the key, he can get behind the wheel and drive it normally due to standardization of principles that go into automotive design. Things might have changed somewhat in the cab during your lifetime. A CD Player gives way to a USB port but it's been that way as long as you can remember and your parents can remember.

The guy who designed the car was a technocrat. He got to design the car because people decided that sanitation is kind of awesome and they like repeatable, understandable principles rather than dicey bargains with spirits. If, over the lifetime of our species, we had decided that spirit pacts just work better, it might be powered by the will of a spirit. And it was the decentralized choice of billions upon billions of humans that got us to that point.

>You know what does this idea better Awakening. That setting pretty much said. Reality is as we made it. and therefore beyond place and beyond time reality was modeled and crafted. and therefore Science could be magic, or could be the crafted model

You could also have just said "I don't like the fluff" and I could have been all like "Well I do but you do you."

>>50047275
Are you the Brujah antediluvian? How's Carthage, bro?

>>50047547
Meant link. Wow that was funny.

If Temporal Summoning is cast on a woman to point where she was in labor and she gives birth, what happens when the spell ends? Will there be now two versionsnof the mothers child?

>>50047634
Don't give the Tech credit for everything. Mankind made the car or would have eventually made the car along with almost everything else. Mankind made the Nuke in complete secrete separately from Tech influence. Mankind is more than capable in the fluff to do what it wants

I didn't say I don't like the fluff, I said Science is not magic. Mankind decided to say fuck illogical shortcuts, built a base of knowledge and kept building. Science is not magic

Science is Enlightenment for the collective masses. No one decided. independent scientific theory does not need a witness or a judge. Experimentation and Science's ability to be continually verified and expand on knowledge is it's underlining strength

Look I understand in the narrative blab happened. and Magic is possible and hidden, but Science doesn't need magic

The Techs didn't make Science, they hijacked it and are now controlled by it.

>>50046473
It depends on what you mean by 'detailed information, as everything written about them is more narrative/storyline than 'and Caine did this thing'. They're talked about a fair bit in the Book of Nod and other storyline sources, and it talks about who they were (Enoch, Zillah, Irad) and such things, but it's all narrative and bare-bones.

Anyone have the updated Mage 2e PDF with the errata? Thanks.

>>50048280
It's never gonna happen, Anon.

>>50048280
Just buy it already like i did

>>50048280
Mage players

>>50048398
>>50048303

I've actually purchased a LOT of WW books, and I'll probably eventually buy a hard copy of Mage 2e.

I'll be the first to admit that acquiring the updated PDF has now become more about the principle than money.

I'm astonished that with so many copies of Mage 2e around, that *nobody* leaked the new pdf.

Back from LARP meeting.
This weekend is going to go swimmingly.
Music is all set. Props and decorations for a Halloween masque hosted by the Tremere is all in place. The player of a Toreador Elder and myself are practicing a waltz that my partner is helping is choreograph, to be something leading into the Tremere becoming human, then either becoming mages or puddles of goo. I think everyone will have a good time.

Also, LARPguy here. If you have LARP questions, ask them here!

>>50048470
Is Dracula going? I'm only going if Dracula goes

>>50048470

When are the anticipated release dates for Secrets of the Covenants and Signs of Sorcery for Awakening and Requiem? I know OPP doesn't release exact dates, but is it a matter of weeks or more like Christmas 2017 or thereafter?

Also, do we know the next release for Forsaken?

>>50048494
No, my LARP is too low-brow and standard for Dracula to come. Plus, I'd probably kick him in the shins, so there's that.

>>50048507
I have no idea. I don't work for WW, I'm the resident LARPer who posts regularly in the group.

>>50045549
How do i go about making a Magical Girl for Mage the ascenciin?

>>50048659
>Play a Mage
>Ideally one that is a [preteen or teenage] girl
>Have your Paradigm be HOPE AND JUSTICE
>Fight the baddies

>>50048078
1) Don't take my analogies too seriously.

2) The published materials disagree with you.

3) They're functionally identical within both the fluff and crunch and the system supports that, whether you like it or not.

4) That's fine, but we're talking about a game where they are the same thing, your personal philosophy notwithstanding.

>>50048913
Thats TechnoMagic. Magic done with Scientific trappings. Like the neutralizer borrowing from MIB the alien movie. Which is a bunch of peuso science.

Science as in actual world physics modeled in game is not something you can just escape from. All the magic is layered on top of it. Even during the turbulent ages, mages still recognized simple scientific concepts like Gravity, light and inertia. They did their magic using different tools, but those things still existed

I don't cast Forces to lift a plane using air pressure. It just happens when you move the plane fast enough where the difference in pressure between the upper and lower wings lifts the plane.

The Tech view point was always about lifting mankind collectively. Science is the tool for that. Now what is the ultimate answer is a completely different ideological territory

>>50048028
Anyone?

>>50048469
At this point I'm not sharing it just to spite you.

>>50048028
Not pregnant woman into -> pregnant woman

Biologically pregnant but has no fetus or baby

When the woman is pregnant the fetus and mother are the same 'pattern' until the baby is birth. Then the baby and woman are two separate 'patterns'

only the one pattern is time traveled, and does not create or link the other pattern back.

Now if you cast it on BOTH of them. that would be an interesting story.

>>50049282
The spell would give you a pregnant woman with no baby to give birth to.

>>50049545
>At this point I'm not sharing it just to spite you.

I'm hardly the only person requesting the pdf. I'm just persistent and honest.

>Jump forward. in the modern ages we've got 14th and 15th gens, which shouldn't be possible according to previous metaphysics, but now is. If you continue that line of thought. Eventually you'd get 14 full blood vamps and 15th able to sire thin bloods.
>So you see Eventually those 14th and 15th would barely be vamps With no curse of caine at all.

But by that same logic, couldn't each newly sired and now full blooded generation, 14 siring full blooded 15ths, and then a century or two later, 15ths siring full blooded 16ths. To borrow a phrase from CofD, it sounds like blood potence is the key. In theory, as long as the race could survive for a few centuries without siring (and it wouldn't be that extreme, because there would still be some previous generations siring) vampires could continue on in such a way you might as well forget generations and just work off potence.

I actually really like that, it could be fun metaplot. Was the OPP cut of point before or after Time of Thin Blood? Because I'm interested to how they will deal with it.

>>50049135
>Science as in actual world physics modeled in game is not something you can just escape from.

Of course it is. Then you wouldn't be able to escape from it at all. Yes, it's modeled in game and it is acknowledged in game but individuals can and do routinely violate it. By acknowledging that physics, in a fictional world wherein vampires and werewolves and wizards exist, isn't concrete and inescapable, you must also acknowledge that enlightened individuals that violate these things through extremely advanced theoretical scientific procedures must also fit within this framework.

>>50050016
15th gens cannot sire. 14th gens fail to sire half the time. 13th gens can sire normally but their progeny have a 50/50 chance of being Caitiff.

>>50050034
We are saying the same thing.Science is universal until something chances that. Science is a concrete thing for the norm, but can be subverted using magic. Techs use Technomagic (magic that uses Science trappings) and Traditions use largely symbolism to do their magic.

>>50050016
Such is the postulate proposed. The further down the timeline you get the more likely higher and higher gens, could theoretically become viable. And the nature of higher and higher gen, the less blood curse there is. Mechanically this is reflected in smaller and smaller blood pool/ blood per turn. and sunlight damage. Thin-THin blood take sunlight as lethal. You could theoretically keep pushing it down to just bashing for higher and higher gen.

And yes Blood Potency is the way to go, The curse of caine is just too diluted, to continue that metaphysics and still have caine vampires

>>50050016
>>50050161

As far as making it a plot. You could take the current thin blood situation, and through it back to Roman times. Requiem even has a rome by night setting. Thrown in the rise of Christianity, compare n contrast with the fall of caine vampires. Sounds like a playable campaign plot. People might complain about Bridging universes, but it sounds like fun.

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>>50050016
>>50050161
>>50050241
>ITT: Chrodniggers fail to realize that a 4th or 5th gen vampire that's still active can still create progeny and their progeny can still create progeny...

>>50050384
>Is late to the party

>>50044059
>>50044155
>>50044253
>>50044293

tldr: with caine metaphysics eventually too much diluted blood, after several centuries

no matter how much you hold out the candle for owod he'll never come back to you anon.

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>>50050548

O-of course he will, daddy will come back! And when he does, I'm telling him about how mean you were...!

>>50050384
Can I convince one of those 4th/5th generation guys to embrace me so I can be one of the protagonists?

How has this not gotten on to the thread yet?

Recently done by the creator of Changeling 2E himself, I present to you a Changeling/Vampire Template. And I don't mean a vampire with a changeling bloodline or s changeling with a vampire kith. A true mixture of both. Check it out and rage over it.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-requiem/996449-weird-experiment-changeling-meets-requiem-the-admonitoria

>>50051035

It's better than the concept has any right to be.

>>50051038
I thinks it's fucking fantastic honestly. But I'm sure plenty of people will hate it and this will spark an argument thst will last the thread.

>>50051035
Not so sure about the "Embrace as your escape from your Durance" angle. But "Vampire escapes Arcadia" sounds neat.

>>50051089
Hey both are fair.

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>>50051049
Corgy Rage intensifies

Will read and wait with pleasure

>>50051049
I didnt read it but i think being a changeling vampire is just enouph fuck up to stop care about fixing it and just dont enouph fuck up to leave human perception alltogether.
I feel like character must be an edgy kid without purpose and not enouph transcendant mindbending personality to be interesting to roleplay, and oh boy i even find beasts heroes interesting to roleplay.

>>50051035
Honestly this make me want to try making a mage/werewolf mix up.

>>50051194
I think mixing Mage with anything would just fuck the mixture up beyond repair.
Mage has a very specific way of going about powers that doesn't play nicely with others.

>>50051211
Well mixing mage with something just leave narrow minded mage, since mage is everything, mage is love, mage is life.

Didn't Descartes himself pretty much seal the lid on the whole "you're creating your own reality" issue way back in the 17th century by observing that things he would like to happen regularly don't, while things he'd never want to do? I remember him using a particularly amusing metaphor about him as a child stepping on nail.

>>50051299
Yeah, but that same little bitch figured he wasn't wrong about reality because his god wouldn't lie to him - an argument that fails to account for the mentally ill.

>>50051149
I couldn't parse the fuck you're saying.

>>50051194
>>50051211
I did a Wolfblooded Proximus Dynasty. Their Paradox Condition was that they'd go Dalu and Death Rage.

>>50051299
That implies creating our reality is a conscious decision.
What Descartes realized was that the only thing he could concretely determine was that his own mind existed. You know, the Cogito. "I think, therefore I am"? Cogito ergo sum.

>>50051322
>What Descartes realized was that the only thing he could concretely determine was that his own mind existed. You know, the Cogito. "I think, therefore I am"? Cogito ergo sum.
Descartes has composed innumerable philosophical treatises (on top of being a prolific doctor, mathematician, and astronomer). The Cogito is just the tip of the iceberg that pseudo-intellectuals have heard secondhand about on the internet and are assuming to be the end result of his entire academic career.

Read some more.

>>50051340
>are assuming to be the end result of his entire academic career.
He was also a mathematician.

>>50051340
Yes, he's remembered for his shitty attempts to turn philosophy into a science. What's your point?

What happens when you ate a Mage but everyone already knows who you are and people can easily look you up. Like if your a student or an employee in some company. Whats the point of getting a Shadow name when people know who you are?

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>>50051035

An interesting concept, and I'm all for more crossover material. That said, CofD isn't by bag, generally. I only own the core WoD and Requiem books.

I'm not particularly familiar with Changling in either edition, would this be workable in Classic World of Darkness?

I mean, despite people harping on that crossovers don't work, the various books do make mentions of eachother occasionally, and the various fictions assume a shared world. So what oWoD combinations are theoretically possible, no matter how mechanically difficult/impossible? It might be fun to throw a Werebear Mage in full warform at my group one day.

>>50051510
You hide your true identity (even just a Mask will do) or move somewhere else.

>>50051510
The whole point of a shadow name is to disassociate your magical you with your normal you. Otherwise they are one in the same person.

>>50051652
So if you are minor you run away from home?

>>50051696
You can have a mystical identity without burning your mundane one.

If you're a minor though, odds are your Order will approach your parents with the stereotypical "Xaviar School for Gift Youngsters" offer, then cart you away for training out of the public eye.

In some 1e materials, an Awakening is said to be detectable by other Awakened as something of a mystic shockwave which can be detected by their Unseen Senses.
Which causes other Mages, being the compulsive busybodies that they are, to find them.

Do you think that will holds in 2e with peripheral Mage Sight?

>>50051726

Yes, it is. If you're on the same Path as the fresh Awakening, it makes a hell of a noise in the Supernal World.

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Give a newbie ST a hand? Next year I'm running oWoD Hunter for my group, but I don't want them to start out imbued, at least not all of them. I'm either going with muggles who find hunter-net and as a laugh follow up on a lead found there that turns real, or a group of people who have suffered personal tragedies from a gang (who will turn out to be Sabbat shovelheads, their misfortunes merely crossfire) and get plunged into the World of Darkness over the course of the next decade of chronicles. Start them out simple with gang banger ghouls and fledglings.

But... how do you best make a base Hunter with no imbued powers? How have you handled it? Just ignore that section of the rules? I am tempted to use the CofD WoD Core to build them if they use the same stats.

>>50052430

Mortal support on oWoD is scant and mostly VtM focused, but you could probably just have them build people and add in the Hunter template and Freebie points later. CofD's got slightly different Attributes, so using their Mortal sheet won't be helpful.

>>50052430
They don't use the same stats, but you're really better off using CofD Hunter anyway. It's MUCH easier, not just in terms of stats and mechanics and setting, but in what it allows you as the Storyteller to do. As far as I'm aware, you can't run Reckoning without other World of Darkness material, but with the corebook and Hunter: The Vigil (and Mortal Remains, ideally) you can run just about any scenario you want, including ones set in the oWoD.

You can even make them Imbued by simply refluffing other powers, particularly Castigation, Benedictions, and (in Mortal Remains), Ink.

So there's this DM that likes to focus A LOT on combat and all his NPC's are the same and not worth talking to, but me and my friend are itching to roleplay. Thought we wanna munchkin and steal the campaign and do our own thing because we're 99% whatever he has cooking is gonna be retarded.
Anyone have any munchkin tips? what the best races are, how to break the game etc...? (keep in mind i'm fairly certain talking to NPC's is gonna be useless). And please don't worry about the moral consequences of this, he all but encourages powergaming by rewarding it

>>50054897

Tell your ST that you want to roleplay more, and if he doesn't want to do that, leave the game. You're not going to steal the game, no one's going to have fun, and you're both going to come out as the bigger assholes.

Trust me on this.

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How a Werewolf affect a spirit in the Hisil in 2e?
And what page is it?

>>50055228
Uh... multiple ways?
All throughout the book?

I'm not sure what the question is. Affect it how?
Like, punching it? Talking to it? Using a Gift on it? Do you mean getting to the Hisil? Do you mean Reaching across the Gauntlet?

>>50046704
Wait, so that theory asserts that what we perceive as "reality" is more likely a hallucination produced by our minds than it is an actual reality?

And furthermore, that we are all hallucinating beings, trapped in some dreamlike state, in some unknown location/reality that may as well be a void?

Or, more accurately, that I (You) are a being trapped in a dream-state in the void, and every other person/thing you meet is just some figure created by your imagination?

I'm starting to understand the old theories of our reality being the dream of a sleeping "god". I (You) are the god.

>>50045549
>How does the World of Darkness celebrate Halloween?
Every day is Halloween.
>>50051035
>So, I wanted to send a thank you letter to a friend and fan, Peter Mars.
>He did me a solid, and I wanted to say thanks.
>But, then I realized it'd be more fun if instead of just writing some thank you, I did some experimental game content and made it sort of a public, community thank you.
>He did me a solid
>He did me a solid
So do I understand it correctly that D. Hill Jr. got fucked so well by a fan, that he couldn't resist but to announce it publicly and as a thank you write additional content?
Man, he and Onyxpath are really much more fucked up than I thought.

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>>50055299
Both. My english is awful and I'll participate in a table next month. I have the impression that I missed it.
You can talk to it by first tongue while in the Hisil, right?
But how about fighting it? Making tangible for my packmates beat the shit out of it?

>>50055670
>Every day in the World of Darkness is Halloween
>Halloween is the one day nothing spooky is going on

>>50055681
Werewolves can speak First Tongue in any form other than Human.
Werewolves can physically interact with anything in the Hisil as long as they're in the Hisil, including Spirits.
Werewolves can physically interact with Materialized Spirits in the Flesh.
Werewolves can cross the Gauntlet at a Locus.
I'm pretty sure there are also ways to make a Spirit Materialize, or maybe even they can deal damage to them when they're not Materialized, but I don't want to look it up.

>>50052430

Hunters Hunted 2 is the book you want.

>>50053031
Nobody cares.

>>50050113
Guess what. The game disagrees with you and takes steps to model this despite what your autism tells you.

>>50053031
>As far as I'm aware, you can't run Reckoning without other World of Darkness material

Wrong the whole "system to create monsters" that vigil uses also is in Reckoning.

>>50055228
The shadow is a different world, so you have to go there to do things there without a special gift.
You can look across the gauntlet to see what's going on in the shadow tho

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Why Glades are so importants to werewolves?

>>50057842
they aren't
they're noteworthy tho because they're sort of rageproof
knowing your territory is important
and it can be cool to do negotiations with hostiles there because hostility is subdued

>>50045549
Has anyone picked up Endless Ages? It is good?

>>50058199
>Is VtM fiction good?

>>50058223
I can dream

>>50050053
>15th gens cannot sire.

Actually, in the upcoming "Beckett's Jyhad Diary", one of the book's (many) plotpoints is that a 16th generation vampire has been found, and that more are likely to start appearing.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_TDJ5dAXW3iGx9XLn7lvmLUnixDw6MYN4EBJho5m2d0/pub

>The 15th has long been the highest Generation of vampires, but the 16th is rising. Here is the Flaw to add the 16th Generation to your campaign.

>16th Generation (5 pt. Flaw)

>You were created no more than a year ago. Your vitae is so weak only four of your 10 blood points can be used for Disciplines, healing, or raising Attributes. For these functions, you must expend two blood points to obtain the effect a normal vampire would achieve with one. You may use the remaining six blood points for other purposes, and rising still costs a single blood point per night. You cannot create a blood bond or Cainite childe, nor can you create or sustain ghouls.

>You are Clanless and do not suffer from a Clan weakness. You select three starting Disciplines freely, but cannot raise any Discipline above two dots. You are likely an outcast of Cainite society and cannot start play with the Domain or Status background.

>Barely a vampire, sunlight only causes lethal damage to you and you can attempt to soak it with Stamina. Remaining awake during the day still presents the same difficulties as it does to other Cainites. You gain the effects (though not the actual Merits) of Blush of Health and Eat Food. You can conceive a Dhampir child.

Does religious belief create spirits in the same way as emotions and other concepts?
Are there Spirits of Christianity? Hinduism?

>>50058671

Wouldn't it be a spirit of Faith, rather than one of a particular religion?

>>50058671
yes
books show them as spirits of faith
but individual things get more focus
specific angels (pr peoples concepts of them) are in astral
spirits of faith/perseverance/hope can appear as them depending on refelction

>>50058671
book of spirits has a section on places of worship and spirits that create there
there's also avenging christian claimed later in book

>>50056596
Wo Anon I'm so happy you finally graduated First grade. I hope to see you in second for miss Cary's mathematics

Does the light produced by the Transform energy. rote count as true sunlight? Or do you need Forces 5 to create real sunlight.

>>50058971
The Sun is powered by a fusion / fission reaction right?

>>50058971
>>50059118
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JdWlSF195Y

This is kinda stupid question but if a vampire of say, the 7th gen, then diablerizes and becomes 4th gen, then embraces some poor sap, the poor sap's going to be 5th gen?

And what about the opposite? Say a 8th gen vampire drops his generation to 12th gen, are any kine he embraces going to be 13th gen?

>>50055670
Did me a solid is a pretty normal phrase, to be honest.

>>50055670
Doing someone a solid means doing them a favor.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Do%20me%20a%20solid

which demon book talks about demon angencies and what angels + infrstructure do?

>>50061519

Flowers of Hell for Agencies, the Storyteller's Guide for more angels stuff.

>>50061544
tyvm

Lowering humanity causes a Vampire to be less concerned with interests outside those of the Beast, namely self-preservation and feeding, right?

So would a vampire gradually lose interest in otherwise dehumanizing activities? Would a serial murderer Vampire eventually stop feeling the thrill, or a Ventrue who enslaves humans with his powers lose interest?

W20 Kinfolk: A Breed Apart (13 54MB)
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>>50062409
they always feel thril
it doesn't last as long

>>50062409
Night horrors wicked dead gets into draugr.

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>>50058629
>Barely a vampire, sunlight only causes lethal damage to you and you can attempt to soak it with Stamina.

Okay, that's interesting.

>Remaining awake during the day still presents the same difficulties as it does to other Cainites.

So is that...

>You gain the effects (though not the actual Merits) of Blush of Health and Eat Food. You can conceive a Dhampir child.

Holy shit, they are adding Dhampir?

It sounds like this might basically be the first (or at least friendly in both cWoD and OWoD) book intended to lead into One World of Darkness. After all, the End comes pretty soon after the 15th become a big thing, and so there would be little purpose to even mentioning Dhampir.

I wonder if 16th gen are still mortal as far as aging goes? Huh, I actually kind of want to play one, or even a Dhampir. The former is the ulitmate underdog in Cainite society, and a Dhampir is likely rare enough to be a prize pet of some sort, which both have their own interesting themes to explore.

I mean, could a Dhampir be fully embraced by a higher generation? Technically they are alive, after all. Would already having some of the blood in them mean they become full vampires on death, same as the embrace? Would being embraced have any special effect?

What are the big mechanical differences between WtF and WtA20?

>>50065117
Playing a Werewolf in Forsaken is as different from playing a Werewolf in Apocalypse as playing a Werewolf in Shadowrun would be.

The only real similarities are that they're both dice pool systems.

so what are the qualifications of a Heirarch? I'd imagine a 12 year old boy who has been awakened most of his life has more qualifications than some 50 year old guy with only a few years under his belt?

>>50065315
Experience, mostly.
Not merely Gnostic experience though.
The Hierarch is honestly just the administator of the Consilium.
Unless you genuinely wish to serve the Consilium, or wish to relish in your tyranny, the position honestly isn't for you.
It's more a position of responsibility than power.

>>50065545
>The Hierarch is honestly just the administator of the Consilium

And the guy who has to protect it from the Seers and shit. Can't get by as a paper-pusher

>reading oWoD clanbook
>african nosferatu are literally going WE WUZ KANGZ
Also why is Asia the only continent that doesn't have Cainite vampires?

>>50065661

Keui-Jims deded them all. Final ded that is. That said, there probably are the occasional one, and some tourists who don't know better. That could be a pretty interesting chronicle itself.

>>50065565
>And the guy who has to protect it from the Seers and shit.
You fucking serious?
There's an entire Order about that.

>>50051035
Jesus Christ this is stupid.
Someone here made a Contract that was all about drinking blood and getting powers from it and that made way more sense for a vampire-themed changeling. This is just annoying

They also get their own morality stat that looks like a mess. Balance. The amount of stuff the ST would need to keep track of is ridiculous too, since both Clarity and Morality need to be taken into the account

Elements being replaced with blood and darkness is iffy too. So what, if you have some elementa theme it visibly becomes blood/darkness-related?

When it comes to nerfs though, I find it weird that they don't have a Mask unless they enforce it

>>50064897
My guess is that they still wouldn't age because of the blood. Ghouls aren't even vampires yet the blood stops them from aging

>>50065661
Basically what >>50065676 said. I remember reading that Camarilla is trying to establish a small base in Tokyo but that is going very slowly and they tread very carefully

>>50065714
And there's an entire army devoted to it in HArry Potter, but when Voldemort comes around you know everyone turns to Dubmbledore, not some random Arrow

>>50065729
>My guess is that they still wouldn't age because of the blood. Ghouls aren't even vampires yet the blood stops them from aging

How could I forget that? Sounds a pretty solid reasoning.

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>>50065771
>"Oh hey, one of the 4 fucking Diamond Orders is all about motherfucking physical trials and combat and testing your limits and shit, and they hold many positions within the Consilium as frontline combattants. But you know, the Seers are attacking so let's throw the head of our fucking Court of Arbitration out into the way, because obviously this is a fucking novel and he's a main character who needs to have a showdown with his arch fucking rival."

What a mind bogglingly retarded idea.

>>50065545
>>50065565
>>50065714
>>50065771
While the Hierarch is not the soul defender of the Pentacle, it is worth noting that in the World of the Chronicles of Darkness, Authority Equals Asskicking. The Heirarch isn't likely to be an Arrow (in fact, in 1e at least the Silver Ladder felt it was their duty to overthrow any Consilium where they weren't Hierarch or Counselor), but that doesn't mean they're likely to be a pushover.

Then again, this is a thing I've noticed a lot that people think the Prince or Hierarch or whatever will be the most powerful person in the city. That's not really how it works. You don't get in power by being able to beat everyone else up. Historically the King has not been the guy who could take everyone in a fistfight. It was the guy who could make sure that if you tried, you'd get your shit kicked in. Power in social groups isn't measured in dots in Disciplines or Arcanum, it's how many people--with lots of dots--will go to bat for you.

It's kind of ironic that of all the splats Beast is the one that makes this the most explicit. The Apex of Tokyo isn't a Beast. It's not even a supernatural. It's a mortal (likely a Hunter) and head of the Hitotogisu. That guy is the one who gives the monsters nightmares, because he's the one who can do them the most damage.

>>50065825
To be fair, he is likely to be *very* skilled. But regardless of how skilled he is, he's still going to want trained bodyguards and ways to get away.
Even in Dresden Files the Merlin is one of the strongest ("they don't give the title away in a Crackerjack box") but he's still got Wardens and protection

>>50065771
They turn to Dumbledore for leadership, not to fucking box with Voldemort.

>>50065899
>They turn to Dumbledore for leadership, not to fucking box with Voldemort.

That's exactly what he did though

>>50065729
You kind of seem the only person who hates it. I mean, yeah, it's a lot of dumb bullshit, but it doesn't really seem that much more than many other minor templates, like Changing Breeds or Possessed or anything.
Also, was that my contract? I made one about faking being a vampire, and drinking blood to gain Glamour was one of the aspects of it. I think it was called Contracts of Vitae. I lost it ages ago.

>>50065909
He did that in one book to rescue Harry.

>>50065226
Which system is more enjoyable to play, in your opinion?

>>50065910
I was overreacting to some extent but I do silike the idea. There is enough "I now have 2 battle with 2 different aspects of myself (the human and the supernatural)" themes in both Changeling and Vampire. Mashing them together just creates a giant mess.

And yeah I think that was what it's called. I have it saved somewhere on my pc, I remember it being not that bad

>>50056199

Anyone got a Mega for that? Doesn't seem to be in the oWoD folder.

>>50065565
>And the guy who has to protect it from the Seers and shit. Can't get by as a paper-pusher

Thats not exactly what a hierarch does anymore. Its more balancing the egos of all the cabals in the city so they dont blew themselves.

>>50065117
>What are the big mechanical differences between WtF and WtA20?

Plenty mechanically WTA20 is interesting on how obtuse it is rule-wise. Regeneration is needles complicated, the use of gnosis/rage is the same. Spirits rules are just a weird mesh of werewolves.

WtF is more streamlined mechanically, but it tied mechanics to the hunt gameplay so if you wanna explore the game beside it then you kind of out luck.

>>50065899
>The Apex of Tokyo isn't a Beast. It's not even a supernatural. It's a mortal (likely a Hunter) and head of the Hitotogisu.

According to Mage, the chairman of the Hotogisu is a member of the Silver Ladder and the corporation is a cryptopoly..

David Hill intentionally provides inconsistent information in the Tokyo sections of each game book.

>>50065946
I am *very much* in favour of Forsaken and CofD over Apocalypse and WoD. I honestly hate Apocalypse.

>>50065949
I think that there are so many overlapping themes is why it can work. I mean, I wouldn't really allow it, but I also don't really allow Changing Breeds or Possessed or Purified or anything else like that.

>I have it saved somewhere on my pc, I remember it being not that bad
Could you upload it? If it is mine, I'd love to have it again.

>>50066092
Actually, on double checking, he's listed as a Ghoul in Beast.
>Inoue Akio, the CEO of Hototogisu, is the Apex of Tokyo. He’s only a ghoul, but the vampires of Tokyo are deathly afraid of him. His corporation has a lot of leverage in Awakened politics. The corporation is experimenting with making Prometheans. They deal with the Uratha in fetishcrafting and slipping through the Shadow. He is connected to the Chronicles of Darkness on a level that Beasts envy.
>The Hive Trait is Maze. Akio embodies patterns, processes, and procedures. He presents a right way to progress, and a wrong way. The wrong way sends a traveler back to the beginning.

Hooks:
>• The Hototogisu seeks to subjugate all forms of supernatural life in Tokyo. Unfortunately, the various factions are far too disparate to affect any sort of change. Beasts share kinship in such a centralized faction, however, that some of the eldest look to act as unifying forces to end Hototogisu influence. For every unifier, the Hototogisu keeps at least one sympathetic Beast ready to undermine his kin’s influence in the supernatural world.

>David Hill intentionally provides inconsistent information in the Tokyo sections of each game book.
I'm fine with that, honestly. Also, Beast has the best version of the Hototogisu. Something about a megacorp criminal syndicate with its fingers all throughout the underworld is neato to me.

>>50066060
>Regeneration is needles complicated
Can you tell me more? I only skimmed through the old WtA books ages ago and checked the V20 so that I can set them up as antagonists for vampires

>>50066261
Sorry anon, I'm at work now. If the thread survives 5 more hours, then I'll be happy to do so. Or I'll psot it in the next one

>>50066261
>I am *very much* in favour of Forsaken and CofD over Apocalypse and WoD. I honestly hate Apocalypse.

Any reason why?

>>50066852
Well, not to get too deep into Edition War territory, I'm going to focus on only Werewolf.

>Why I hate Apocalypse
Honestly I think the whole thing is dumb. I dislike the Garou Nation for being a bunch of shitty assholes who fight the embodiment of destruction by destroying things. The Tribes individually are all shitty stereotypes, and the dumb yuppies are the closest to likeable for me. I don't like how Rage is supposed to work, i.e. that certain Auspices are inherently more violent and terrifying, even if they do nothing. I also hate the core focus of the game, which is the whole "Apocalypse" thing. >>50066060 points out that Forsaken ties a lot of mechanics to the Hunt, but Apocalypse focuses literally everything around fighting the Wyrm, and if you don't fight well fuck you. This also means that the Spirit World--something that makes Werewolves in the World of Darkness unique and shamanistic instead of just murdermachines--kind of feels tacked on, since they don't actually need to bother being involved with the Spirit World and have no real narrative ties to it.
There's not a lot I do like about Apocalypse. The only thing that comes close is the fact that I can be a wolf raised in captivity that turns into a teenage girl and goes HOLYFUCKHANDS! COLOUR VISION! and joins the Glasswalkers. Except that I can't, because you have to be the purest pure Lupus, and being a Galliard means that being happy-go-lucky is impossible due to RAGE.

Also, there's a lot of little weird things, like how there's no real connection to the moon, because you're a child of Gaia, fighting the Wyrm. Or the weird "no fucking other werewolves" rule, that lasted into Forsaken 1e for no fucking reason. Or the fact that you can lounge around in your big scary terrifying war form.

>>50066786

The regenerate a bashing/slash lethal every turn but if they are in critical condition homids and lupus regenerates one level each day as long as they sleep. They cant heal in their breed form (the form the were born in) but they can regenerate aggravated with critical injuries as long as they remain day in another form.

All of that is outside of combat. In combat they must roll stamina (diff 8) as a reflesive to heal 1 point (Extre successes does shit)

As contrast in forsaken you have a set amount of bashing damage you regenerate each turn depending on your primal urge, you can spend essence to upgrade the healing to lethal and you while in garu (the middle form) you regenerate all bashing and lethal each turn.


Honestly for antagonist is not worthy to learn WtA, better to use werewolve with vampire rules in pag 378. As that is a more close approximation of what the bloodlines did with a werewolf.

>>50066986
>Why I prefer Forsaken (2e)
Overall, the CofD actually work, and aren't dumb.
While I still dislike most of the Tribes, none of them are inherently shitty or annoying.
There's no core conflict of epic proportions and fighting the inevitable end times. Some people may dislike that; I don't. You can always add it in pretty easily, though. That's the thing about CofD: You can play WoD in it. The Garou Nation can be Lodges or replace the Tribes of the Moon outright and it would be fine.
Overall it focuses on being a Werewolf more. Your war form is terrifying to be in because of how powerful it is, and how overtaken by fury and rage it is. It's not something meant for anything other than killing. In 2e, this is really emphasized, and "werewolf as teetering on the knife's edge of murdering fucking everyone" is right at the forefront of a lot of mechanics.
Also, you're actually tied to the Spirit World more than just being able to go into it. I don't actually remember if Werewolves are half spirit in Apocalypse, but they are in Forsaken. The Moon is their mother.
There is an emphasis on Werewolves as hunters, yes, but the emphasis is meaningful and interesting, and left up to personal interpretation, making it a lot more meaningful than the whole "it's the end of the world!" bullshit that I hate.
There's also a big emphasis in 2e on being a Pack, as opposed to just a group of murdermonsters hanging out together.

I forgot to mention this, but in Apocalypse the primary antagonists were essentially Captain Planet villains: An evil megacorp that intentionally poisons the Earth because they worship the spirit of corruption and destruction. Let's just say that Forsaken has a much more nuanced approach to technology.

Overall I like that the game does away with a lot of the stupid shit in Apocalypse. Fun fact: the Pure Tribes are actually meant to be a distilled version of the Garou Nation.

I've probably forgotten a lot of stuff. There are a lot more reasons.

>>50067010
>All of that is outside of combat. In combat they must roll stamina (diff 8) as a reflesive to heal 1 point (Extre successes does shit)
Huh iirc it used to be that they regen automatically every turn all damage except aggravvated. This one makes them more vulnerable. Maybe not bad if you play as them but they're less terrifying as antagonists

Does anyone have that sidebar from the Silver Ladder that says minor aches and pains are a grave injustice?

>>50066986

As counter argument i would say that all the tribes can be interesting (lots of material to expand them) and full of rich history that the forsaken lack (history of the tribes in forsaken is "when they formed" and thats about it)

As for the focus on fighting the wyrm, the best games of werewolf i play in were those in which fighting the wyrm was an after tought or handwaved. The wyrm works like the zombies in Walking Dead as the excuse for the asshole tribes to exist along side the non-asshole tribes.

>>50066986
>There's not a lot I do like about Apocalypse. The only thing that comes close is the fact that I can be a wolf raised in captivity that turns into a teenage girl and goes HOLYFUCKHANDS! COLOUR VISION! and joins the Glasswalkers. Except that I can't, because you have to be the purest pure Lupus, and being a Galliard means that being happy-go-lucky is impossible due to RAGE.

That false in so many levels. The GW would accept a lupus, and as for a happy go lucky galliard you can play one. Rage just means that when you get angry shit get real.


As for the spirit world you are wrong partially. In both games fixing the material side is always more efficient than the spirit side but that on both games really.

On setting, you can play forsaken in apocalypse but no the other way arround. Shit autistic aspel says non-whistanding.

Wanna play a urban hunter? You can. Wanna play pack vs the world? Most shitty player already do that. Wanna play Werewolf vs Werewolf? The garou nation make politics possible and if not Pack Vs Pack do happen quite a lot.

On the other hand forsaken you cant run politics as there is no garou nation, the role of kinfolk is more nebolous. You can run apocalypse on forsaken if you shit on Forsaken as a setting. Lodge as garou nation does not work

Botton line you can run Forsaken in Apocalypse but you will fight the shitty mechanics.

Forsaken is more limited but what it does, it does really well.

>>50067626
>History of the Tribes
While it's true that Apocalypse focuses a lot on backstory and worldbuilding, I honestly don't care about most of it. That said, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of that in CofD as well. Tribes of the Moon probably has some stuff. There's also plenty of backstory you can get from Dark Eras.

>Fighting the Wyrm
That's still the primary focus of the Garou Nation. You're a soldier in a war. The game doesn't *want* you to ignore that.

>Galliard Lupus Glasswalker
Yes, Glasswalkers accept Lupus, but the Rage does mean that you're generally meant to be angry. It also means that you have an aura of terror around you.

>On setting, you can play forsaken in apocalypse but no the other way arround. Shit autistic aspel says non-whistanding.
>Botton line you can run Forsaken in Apocalypse but you will fight the shitty mechanics.
I am Aspel, and no, you don't have to fight the mechanics.
I could probably put the Garou Nation into Forsaken in about 20 minutes if I weren't playing Dragonfall.

You also don't need the Garou Nation or Kinfolk to have politics. I mean, shit, there *are* Protectorates, you know.

>Forsaken is more limited
It literally isn't. That's the whole point.

>>50067780
>While it's true that Apocalypse focuses a lot on backstory and worldbuilding, I honestly don't care about most of it. That said, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of that in CofD as well. Tribes of the Moon probably has some stuff. There's also plenty of backstory you can get from Dark Eras.

I havent read dark era but tribes of the moon (the book) doesnt have any more backstory more than the usual conflicting origins of the tribes.

>>50067780
>That's still the primary focus of the Garou Nation. You're a soldier in a war. The game doesn't *want* you to ignore that

The focus in setting sure. But the like the zombies in walking dead that makes negan possible

>>50066986
What about the mechanics, completely separated from fluff?

The thing is I'm going to be homebrewing the setting anyway, so I just want to know which one is more fun mechanically. For what it's worth I planned on kiboshing a lot of stuff from the lore anyway.

>>50068169

Not aspel but mechanically wta is a nightmare to run. Either use vampire v20 or cofd

>>50068169
CofD is mechanically more solid in almost every level.

Tell me what you want to do, and I can even give you advice on how to do it. Though, for what it's worth, if you don't want to play a shamanistic werewolf warrior, neither game will really be what you want, and you might be better with a different system, or much more extensive homebrewing.

>>50068169
>The thing is I'm going to be homebrewing the setting anyway, so I just want to know which one is more fun mechanically. For what it's worth I planned on kiboshing a lot of stuff from the lore anyway.

Are you the anon who wants to use werewolves for antagonists? What you looking for?

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>>50068415
Anyone who wants to use Werewolves for Antagonists shouldn't use a book labeled "Werewolf". Use what you have available, don't get tied up in the specifics of the splat.

In fact, I think I'll go back to this project while I figure out what to do for NaNo.

>>50068462

Thats why i ask, vampire 20th also has rules for quick werewolves

>>50065714
Which one? The Arrow or the Free Council?

The Arrow might be the fightmages, but the Free Council are the ones with "Kill Seers" as one of their core fucking tenets.

In most games I've played in, the Free Council takes care of the Seers (when direct violence is called for at least; more indirect conflict tends to be handled by the Guardians), while the Arrow deals with everything else.

Angry werewolves? Send in the Arrow. Abysssal incursions? Send in the Arrow. Got some Seers who need to be shot in the face? Let the Libertines take care of that.

>>50068997
>Abysssal incursions? Send in the Arrow.
That's more of a Guardian thing.

Seers are generally an "everyone's problem" sort of thing, but if it comes to war, that's the Arrow's job. For the Free Council, it's just personal.

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Hey /CofD/ I'm a lazy ass DM and I'm having issues coming up with an overarching plot for an already in session chronicle set in vegas. Mage 1's parents are seers, mage 2's dad was killed by the vampire mob so he wants to go back in time and kill him, mage 3 woke up after being kidnapped by the seers and not remembering what happened at all.

Any ideas to make this dumb chronicle work?

>>50069094
>but if it comes to war, that's the Arrow's job. For the Free Council, it's just personal.
You don't want to see what happens when the Free Council starts sending its Columns to war.

>>50069094
>>50068997

For Abyssal incursions it's more like "send in the Arrow to contain it, send in the Guardians to track down the reason behind it, and send in the Mysterium censors to actually do something about it."

>>50069165
basically isis
but with magic

>>50069183
>send in the Guardians to track down the reason behind it
arrow goes in to attack on its own
guardians send their own people
mysterium send their own people to "help" but actually steal any artifacts/magic to hide it
free council bitches and moans
silver ladder pat selves on back

>>50069221
Yes. That's how it ACTUALLY goes. I was talking about how it is meant to go.

>>50069190
Hey now, the Free Council would be the last people going around smashing Sleeper artifacts for being blasphemous.

>>50065825
>>50065899
It uses same model validated by years like USA does. President is always in a frontline kicking enemy's arse.

So geckopirateship finally got permabanned from the OPP forums.

I'm surprised they lasted this long.

>>50069507
Is that the person who hated Awakening and Promethean's humanist message and tried to make their own version of them? Good riddance. I'm not a fan of Mage in general, but Promethean doesn't need transhumanism.

>>50069562
Yup. They also tended to get incredibly offended and immediately start playing the victim whenever people didn't like their stuff (and come into threads about the official games to shit on them and go on about how their homebrew version was "fixing" it).

Hell, I'm homebrewing a fix for Exalted myself, but I don't go into the Exalted forums to take massive steaming dumps everywhere because the game they like is BAD and MINE'S BETTER.

>>50069507
Oh nice! Got a link to the thread where it happened?

>>50069562
They also hated Awakening for not being Genius.

>>50068253
Mostly I'm wanting a "glass half full" version of WoD. To pit a pack of werewolves against relatively mundane horrors like human hunters, rival packs, the occasional vampire or asshole wizard rather than a world-ending cosmic pseudo-deity or other such eldritch abominations.

I like the idea of werewolves having shamanistic power, but I'm less interested in Furry Captain Planet and Spirit World Border Patrol.

>>50069808
>I like the idea of werewolves having shamanistic power, but I'm less interested in Furry Captain Planet and Spirit World Border Patrol.

You'll be happy to learn that they cut down on the Border Patrol thing in 2e, unless you go for one of the Tribes that focus in spirit incursions. (Bone Shadows and Storm Lords)

>>50064897
>I wonder if 16th gen are still mortal as far as aging goes?

They still count as vampires, so no. But the 14th/15th/16th generations *can* pick a special flaw that essentially only slows down their aging, rather than halting it entirely. Those vampires that pick said flaw will eventually, unless they use mystical spells and/or diablerie to drop in generation, wither and die from old age, although it'd still take hundreds of years.

>I mean, could a Dhampir be fully embraced by a higher generation? Technically they are alive, after all. Would already having some of the blood in them mean they become full vampires on death, same as the embrace? Would being embraced have any special effect?

No, dhampirs are basically a "natural" form of revenant, with revenants being the product of ghouls breeding until they create a bloodline of mortals that naturally produce small amounts of vitae in their bodies (and often being inbred, with mental problems to boot). Revenants do age, but at a slower rate, and may become vampires if they end up being Embraced.

The same applies to dhampirs. At their core they are humans, not vampires. They age slowly, can learn several disciplines on their own without a vampiric teacher (although they're limited to only the first dot in a discipline), naturally create vitae at a rate of 1 point per day, and if they die they can end up Embraced and become a proper vampire, likely retaining any already-learned disciplines.

The only "unique" feature of the dhampirs is that they're born from a human and a vampire. Aside from that, they're little more than revenants with a fancier name and less likelihood of having multiple derangements.

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>>50067914
>>50067780
>>50067626
>>50067168
>>50067038
>>50067010
>>50066986
>>50066852
>>50066786
>>50066261
>>50066060

I am very glad tg has a massive Forsaken > Apocrap leaning.

>>50069507
Storytime MOEW

>>50069987

Where this happen? Did he told Dave Brokshw he was the devil one to many times?

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>>50069155
Seers are looking into vampireic blood as temporal yandere focus. The mob vamp were manipulated to preform strikes at Arcadian times, so their combat / blood magic could be studied. (Celerity/Tempora) Doing this many times has created many temporal flash points, which other than link together do not do much.

mage1's parnets are over seeing the operation
mage2's dad was caught up in one of the first attacks
mage3 was caught at the right place right time to see the seers set up the event and therefore should be watched. also may push mage3 and mage 1 into a lover interest story.

There You're Welcome, wrote the whole story

>>50069599
I've heard she's super depressed, and suicidal. I really feel sorry for her, and I know what it's like to be passionate and depressed, but at the same time that's not really an excuse for being shitty and annoying.

>Hell, I'm homebrewing a fix for Exalted myself, but I don't go into the Exalted forums to take massive steaming dumps everywhere because the game they like is BAD and MINE'S BETTER.
I'm sure most Exalted players would agree with you, from what I can tell about Exalted.

>>50069966

Actually half of those post are from aspel and his opinion doesnt count.

And the other half is saying that apocalyose is mechanical clunkier while the setting is as good as forsaken.

But sure, enjoy your edition wargame

>>50069808
"Boarder patrol" wasn't actually that big a thing in 1e, but it's more or less gone in 2e. You have to Hunt, but who and what you Hunt is up to you. There are also Eldritch Horrors as the villains as the focus of the default Chronicle set up for Forsaken 2e: The Idigam. They're ancient protospirits that are formless and random, but can force themselves to be a specific thing for protection/power.

>>50069915
Even then it's less about being the "boarder patrol" and more that Spirits and the Claimed respectively are seen as their worthy adversaries.

>>50070221
Less than half of them are mine, Apocalypse's setting is terrible, and my opinion is worth more than yours.

>>50070108
No idea mate. I only saw it like once over on the mage forums. It was one of the Death threads about whither life extension is inhuman/ therefore hubric or not. and basically it devolved into Dave Broshw wants you to die a horrible horrible death. I'm condensing and paraphrasing and generally being sharky, but that was the one time I saw it. The idea that transhumanism was about cheating death, and how mage can be played like that, but that isn't the main focus. And that if you wanted to be death proof you got become less/more than human

Char had to come in and make them both stop. Gecko is thick headed. and Dave had heard enough personal attacks for his stance on the system balance, and his personal views on the game.

>>50070221
>Anon = Aspel
Sure Anon Sure

>setting are equal
>one has better mechanics
No leaning there Anon, whistles

>>50070249
It was mostly because the 1ed Harmony / morality stat really pushed you into territories. But fixing that morality to not be dumb really helped.

Basically Harmony 1ed was a giant holdover from wta because it adhered to the code of the moon. so it wasn't a morality but more of a knight code/path. So yeah it still had the no fucking packmates thing. Which was a really awkward way of making sure erp wasn't a thing in pack(in playgroup). but then opened the floodgates of We Must breed the kinfolks.

>>50070249
>Less than half of them are mine, Apocalypse's setting is terrible, and my opinion is worth more than yours.
It's worth EXACTLY as much as anyone else's: It's worth shit.

>>50070221
I am not Aspel, and I think the Apocalypse setting is pure shit. It doesn't even have the blessing that Ascension has of likable enemies.
The protags are shit, the antags are shit. The surrounding splats are shit.
Seriously? Dinosaur shapeshifters?

Can a player purposedly fail a degeneration check for harmony in Forsaken 2nd?

>>50070463
>The protags are shit,
I feel that

How am I suppose to feel sorry for this army that literally fucked and killed all it's allies

Wta spirit mechanics were vague as shit about they could and could not actually do

>>50070510
I would maybe allow it only if it brings you further from the middle, it's already way too easy to adjust as you see fit.

>>50070458
Tbqh 2e Harmony is one of few things I don't like about 2e WtF, I like morality stats to act as a motivation against behaving like murder hobos. (Integrity itself doesn't really work in 2e either, it has virtually no effect)

>>50070935
What I like the least are the "this just happens"-powers.
Most egregious are the un-resistable "Your defence is shit" from Gauru.

Also, Werewolves lack a +Defence ability. That makes them a lot weaker than Mages and Vampires in direct combat.

>>50070935

Well one of my player murdered a pure to get more balance and thus not lose pants.

The phrase he used was "nothing personal, i just really need pants" so murderhobbo at it finest.

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>>50070463
>Seriously? Dinosaur shapeshifters?

Yes, dinosaurs and their contemporaries, and Godzilla-sized war forms that no one can write correct rules for. Problem?

>>50070935
Having Guilty isn't that great a thing. I mean, I'd like more variety, but Integrity works to keep players from being murderhobos about as well as Morality did.

>>50071006
What?

>>50071057
What.

>>50071006
>Also, Werewolves lack a +Defence ability. That makes them a lot weaker than Mages and Vampires in direct combat.
down the prey gives a +2 bonus to defense against an enemy your packmate hit
fetishes can give +3 defense
they have +health and +armor abilities

>>50071308
>What

Player then asked me if he had to roll to move morality or he could just fail. Normally i would say sure but normally Chrod/nwod shitty objective morality means loosing the roll as something always bad. On the other hand the book mentions werewolf sometimes killing their touchstones to keep themselves balanced

>>50071006
>Most egregious are the un-resistable "Your defence is shit" from Gauru.
It isn't thing I particularly like, but especially with the second thing you wrote is basically evens out so I don't really see it as a problem. Plus they have automatic defense against firearms in 3 hybrid forms which makes up for it for a bit. Compare to vamps getting defense to work against firearms.

And I definitely wouldn't call werewolves a lot weaker than mages and vamps in direct combat. Unless vampire has really high blood potency and does aggravated damages, werewolf is stronger, and mages' kicking ass is by virtue of using instant "fuck you up" spells, not by boosting their defense.

>>50071057
Yeah, great example of shortcomings of new Harmony.

>>50071308
I dunno. While I understand why was the whole gaining derangments thing shelved, it seems still a bit underwhelming.

>>50071439
>Yeah, great example of shortcomings of new Harmony.
great example of shitty roleplayer

>>50071439
>I dunno. While I understand why was the whole gaining derangments thing shelved, it seems still a bit underwhelming.
Any ideas for how to put Derangements back in?
I feel like there could be more Conditions in general.

>>50071006
To elaborate on my "What?"
Werewolves are fucking beasts, and their ability to nullify Skill to Defense is part of that. It doesn't need to be resisted, that's already the weaker version: The strong version is "you die".

>>50071308
>What?
The Primal Fear ability. It is unresisted.
Which means that no matter what you are, you are too afraid of a Gauru to be able to defend yourself properly. This happens to everyone, from normal humans, to elite soldiers, from centuries-old vampires, to emotionless unchained. Everyone is afraid of it. No one can fight it. And that's just silly.

>>50071389
Yeah. And Vampires can get +5 Defence, AND armour, AND health. In addition to that, all vampires can get the extra health, not just one fifth of them.
The Vampires also get their bonus as actual extra Stamina, which increases Resistance attributes, and makes them harder to affect with magic. Their stat boosts are also free.

>>50071471
>great example of shitty roleplayer

Not really, it was IC. He notice he started to loose his clothes asked around and found out that when you are too spiritually unbalanced the clothes dont stay.

So when they beat a pure pack he kill one of them because he needed pants.....and to him killing the neonazi tribe is public service (firetouched).

>>50071395
You could let them spend willpower to decrease the roll?

nwod's morality is way less objective than owod ten commandments system, and the move to 2ed has really less the focus of objective good and evil. It's been taking steps to move away from owod humanity system. And shifting one step lower or higher is just realigning the mental focus, and coming terms with thinking a little differently.

I mean look at mage 2ed wisdom. mages are arguable the closet to human of any of the splats, but as long as you're measured, calculated, and careful, premeditate murder is not the most evil crime you can pull off. Because 2ed wisdom is more about how careful you use your magic, than a straight metric on morality

And 2ed harmony is really just the balancing of two sides. and really hammers home the you are of two worlds, the most literally. spirit and flesh.

Hell lets look at vamp's Humanity stat the monster that started it all. It's become less and less about the ten comandments and more about how your connection to humanity as a whole is. You risk detachment for actively not seeking out human conversation. And taking a shot to face makes you rethink. Am I still human? And that slope downwards to just being the thirst and hunger for blood.

So the conditions are not terrible bad way to model this behavior. plus you can get beats from them. so there's that. who would scream about free exp?

IMHPO 1e Forsaken < Apocalypse < 2e Forsaken.

>>50071602
fire touched not neonazi
he became oathbreaker for pants
any dm with a brain would have that come back and bite

>>50071523
>no one can fight it
That's not at all what it is though. It's harder to fight it as you're literally going face to face with the APEX predator, the literal top of the food chain, a magically empowered SUPER-PREDATOR which mortals can't even LOOK UPON without losing their shit.

>>50071625
i disagree but is ok

I'm working on a most likely terrible VtM/VtR hybrid/re-imagining. Here's what I have at the moment.
>Malkavians are subtle sociopaths and mad seers. Their disciplines are Auspex, Nightmare and Resilence. They can spend willpower to get prophetic insights they need to interpret. Their derangements are WIP.
>Nosferatu will stay like they are, but with Animalism instead of Nightmare. I don't know what their boon could be.
>The Carpathians (still looking for a better name) can daywalk with some disadvantages, a bit like Dracula in the novel. They can only feed on humans and heal lethal only during daysleep. Their disciplines are Dominate, Protean and Resilence. I'm not sure about Protean, it's probably overpowered on them, but fits the book.
>The Lasombra will be a Ventrue/Daeva hybrid. They are the "natural rulers" of Kindred, and are mad that the Carpathians stole their rightful place. Their disciplines are Celerity, Dominate and Majesty. Their boon is more addictive blood, their bane is the Aloof Curse along with no shadow or reflections.
I'm still working on other clans and covenants.
Any suggestions/advice?

>>50071523
>Yeah. And Vampires can get +5 Defence, AND armour, AND health.

I'm not saying you aren't right BUT. those cost a shit ton of exp. 3*5 inclan = 15 exp = 15*5beats = 75 beats for +5def and another for +5health, +5armor /bloodpoint spent for the turn.

So a Venture can easily take a shit ton of hits no problem, and mecket can dodge like it's no one's business, but vigor hands out extra to hit dice as well or extra damage. so really it balances out

And although I'm unfamiler with werewolf I'm sure the combat splat has more fun tools at a lesser cost. As for Mages, Fight Smart, not Harder. They have shielding attainments, and the best freeform magic. They're fine.

So Yes vamps can get that, but they have to pay for it. just like everyone else

>>50071685
I fucking hate gaure 's primal fear bullshit. I mean fuck man he's already a murder machine, why does he need this extra op thing against fucks that can't even hurt him.

>>50071728
Where's the obtenebration

>>50071760
>>50071795
its cuz werewolf is made for fighting
other games aren't (hunter is)
literally whole poitn of game is "kill that thing stronger than you"

>>50071685
No one can fight the Primal Fear power, that's what I mean.
It applies to everyone who sees it. No roll, no resist, no nothing. Everyone in the presence of a Gauru is shit at defending themselves.
Vampires, Demons, Archmages, everyone.

>>50071845
not shit
just can't add athletics to it
everything you mentioned has other way to boost defense

>>50071615

I meant "Low morality = Bad" by objective.

>>50071760
Yeah. But the Renown aren't exactly free to raise either, and they are much more difficult to push up. Every vampire can just burn up to maxed out physical disciplines provided enough XP.
For a Werewolf to do the same, they have to face down godlike beings just to prove that they should be allowed to have that.
And pay the XP.

>>50071828
Yeah. And Vampires are de facto stronger. Werewolves start out with a slight advantage, but it switches over to Vampires the more experience is spent.
This is even more true if you are a Rahu.

>>50071728
just make them blood lines anon, so you can use VTR and only have to write the bloodline's history and it's insertion into the setting and not the whole world's setting

also day walking is already kind of possible in VTR, it you're low pot and high humanity, you can handle the sun to a degree. but you need covering. The coils of the dragon have some interesting shit if you want to look through them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tAYfQuE3g8

>>50071860
Yeah. Fine. It just cuts away 33-50% of the possible defence of a target.
And that is a hell of a lot.

>>50071823
I'm working on it. I'm hesitating to make it a fourth in-clan discipline or making it some Lasombra exclusive devotion.

>>50071845
It's okay though anon, because odds are you can only be transformed for nine seconds anyway.

>>50071884
>Yeah. And Vampires are de facto stronger.
incorrect, you said yourself
especiallywith rahu

>>50071897
>Yeah. Fine. It just cuts away 33-50% of the possible defence of a target.
>And that is a hell of a lot.
whinewhinewhine
and?
if you want balance, go to 5e

>>50071629
>fire touched not neonazi
>he became oathbreaker for pants
>any dm with a brain would have that come back and bite

Not my point, but that it was conscious decision made in character not metagaming.

As for the firetouched not being neonazis, well they are a culture based on hate for another culture. That either lynch you or they reprogram you.

Would this bite them in the ass? I dont think so, maybe depends on how the players play their cards.

>>50071911
>It's okay though anon, because odds are you can only be transformed for nine seconds anyway.
PU 10 woof spends more then 12 hours

>>50071629
All Pure are basically NeoNazis. And he's not an Oathbreaker.

>>50071625
1e Forsaken is mechanically terrible, though. Basically no one likes it.

>>50071728
As the other Anon says: Use Bloodlines. The Carpathians also sound stupid. If you really want a Daywalker Clan, give them something similar to Coil of... whichever one lets them walk in sunlight easier.

>>50071795
>>50071845
>>50071897
It's almost as if being a fucking terrifying murder machine was the whole schtick of Werewolf. You might as well argue that no one can resist a Ghoul with Majesty 1.

>>50071910
You do know there are at least three versions of Obtenebration in VtR, right? One for the Khaibit in 1e, one for the Losambra in the Translation Guide, and one for the Khaibit in 2e on a blog post.

>>50071911
...Three turns?
For a starting character, I suppose. But both Stamina and Primal Urge are attributes that are imperative to raise.

>>50071947
I'm not complaining about balance. I'm complaining about how it breaks the rules of the setting. It's a completely irresistible power.

>>50071886
I don't know. I like VtR for its rules and no metaplot, but I enjoy parts of the VtM lore. I'll think about it.
I was thinking of something more radical than scales of the Dragon and high humanity for the daywalkers, but with limitations to make it not completely overpowered.

>>50071952
>Not my point, but that it was conscious decision made in character not metagaming.
character decided to break oath because too lazy to buy pants?
>Would this bite them in the ass? I dont think so, maybe depends on how the players play their cards.
did you not read book?
Willingly breaking the most important tenets warrants
harsh penance. Cannibalism, slaying other werewolves for
petty reasons, and betraying the Oath to satisfy personal urges
all invite grievous punishment. Offenders may be cast out of
pack and tribe, or have a limb cut off with a silver blade; the
former is often a greater punishment to a werewolf.

>>50071884
I'm talking about 2ed

Physical Intensity, burning blood for more dice, is very cost ineffective. 1 blood for two extra dice to one roll. limited to blood per turn. +2dice at blpot1 +4dice(or two different rolls at +2) at blpot2 and so on and so forth

again you're over estimating the ability

>>50071970
>It's almost as if being a fucking terrifying murder machine was the whole schtick of Werewolf. You might as well argue that no one can resist a Ghoul with Majesty 1.

You can though. Just lash out, or equivalent, against it.

>>50071970
>All Pure are basically NeoNazis.
read thebook
>And he's not an Oathbreaker.
again read the book
here's section
>>50072001
>Willingly breaking the most important tenets warrants
>harsh penance. Cannibalism, slaying other werewolves for
>petty reasons, and betraying the Oath to satisfy personal urges
>all invite grievous punishment.

>>50072017
Lashing out doesn't stop powers.

>>50072003
Yeah, but they also have Frenzy, which stat-wise starts out at around Dalu level, and as Blood Potency rises, eclipses anything Shape Shifting does, combat-wise.
It's the combination of physical disciplines AND Frenzy AND physical intensity that makes the Vampires so hard to kill. Oh, and if they have a one dot merit, they can even refuel against the Werewolf, in combat.

>>50072039
Not normally, no. But that's how one fights back against Awe and Dread Presence.

>>50072001
> code of moon

IMRU NU FIR IMRU —
THE PEOPLE DO NOT MURDER
THE PEOPLE
A subject of many tribal debates and heated blood feuds,
this tenet says that murdering other Uratha is a grave sin. It is
both specific and ambiguous, which of course only adds to the
confusion. Most agree the law makes it taboo to kill anyone
with the blood of the Wolf except at great need. Many Uratha
think of Wolf-Blooded and human pack members as part of
the People, and thus their lives are equally sacred.
Nearly as many interpretations of this law exist as there are
packs in the world. Open challenges of dominance resulting
in accidental death might be considered acceptable to some,
while murder of an unaware victim is a heinous crime. Lunes
offer little help interpreting the law, their words every bit as
contradictory as clashing Forsaken beliefs.
Most werewolves assume that beating another werewolf
is acceptable within the Oath. Slaying a defeated foe is
murder. Killing when unnecessary — whether
prey or fellow werewolf — is a sin, especially
when the victim is one of your own kind.
Elodoth argue with their packs and with one another about
whether or not the law includes the Pure Tribes. Some Pure
seem to believe that killing Forsaken is taboo, although torture
doesn’t violate the law. Likewise, some Forsaken refuse to kill
the Pure except when the Pure would murder them, and even
then sing their lament to wolf and moon.

>>50072094
>Most agree the law makes it taboo to kill anyone
>with the blood of the Wolf except at great need.
>killing when unnecessary - whether prey or fellow werewolf - is a sin, especially when the victim is one of your own kind
he killed for pants
did you not read wha tyou post?

>>50072044
and werewolf have Death Rage Gaura form, which also gives a whole bunch of benefits and shares the same, I"M KILL IT role as Frenzy does, and they don't even need high blpot to get all the bonuses. Which are

Reg all bashing and lethal everyturn - Freehealing
+2 to claw and bite
def to firearms
+3perception
Strength +3, Dexterity +1, Stamina +2, Size +2
(Health +4, Initiative +1, Speed +4).

It's not that bad.

>>50072001
>character decided to break oath because too lazy to buy pants?

Yup, that and to he was really really borderline Zuir? zuur? The nutty wolves.

>>50072001
>did you not read book?

I did, did you?
>>50072094
>A subject of many tribal debates

This basically. The pure attacked their territory and nobody except the PC knows what exactly happened. So the PC can tell their tale which is technically true to the Hunter in Darkness or Blood talons and they will back him up.

The tale being "These pure attacked my territory.....yadadaa let noone violate my territory. And i off him"

Or they could tell their tale the local Iron masters and .....shit would get interesting.

>>50072024
>>All Pure are basically NeoNazis.
>read thebook

I read the pure book too. Not all Pure a neonazis but the Firetouched MO is eerily similar. And the pure as a whole is culture of hate.

>>50071970
>1e Forsaken is mechanically terrible, though. Basically no one likes it.

That's why I put it at the "less/worse than" end of the little arrow.

>>50071960
>>50071971
>For a starting character, I suppose. But both Stamina and Primal Urge are attributes that are imperative to raise.

This is true, but it can take a good while to get there, and what's more, a lot of the spirit antagonists in 1e Forsaken are actually somewhat overpowered.

>>50072225
>I did, did you?
you didn't seem to
seem to skip a lot
>>50072225
>This basically. The pure attacked their territory and nobody except the PC knows what exactly happened. So the PC can tell their tale which is technically true to the Hunter in Darkness or Blood talons and they will back him up.
also every lune, the pure totem and any survivors
you go to a lot of lengths to whip up bullshit to defend poor gming
is funny because your whole point came about because you saw a problem with the rules (harmony) and youre not using the ingame way to deal with it

>>50072133
Miss this part anon.

>>50072094
>Elodoth argue with their packs and with one another about whether or not the law includes the Pure Tribes.

>>50072133
k prove that it wasn't a righteous combat gone bad.

>Nearly as many interpretations of this law exist as there are
packs in the world
>Elodoth argue with their packs and with one another about
whether or not the law includes the Pure Tribes

What is against the law and what isn't is always for debate Anon, so it's really up to local werewolf population to decide if this was a righteous death or a simple murder. and Proving it just as difficult. You ever been in a gang kid you ever been to war kid?

>>50072268
>This is true, but it can take a good while to get there, and what's more, a lot of the spirit antagonists in 1e Forsaken are actually somewhat overpowered.

Oh yes. That's why werewolves fight in packs.

>>50072308
didn't miss, it doesn't matter
oath breakers are dealt iwth by blood talon/other packs
some elodoth defend it, others will punish

>>50071971
There are plenty of irresistible powers.

>>50071982
You can still have them be Bloodlines and incorporate aspects of VtM lore.

>>50072001
>>50072024
Have you read the book?
The Pure really are basically NeoNazis. They're Werewolf Supremacists, and Anshega Supremacists at that. Not just the Ivory Claws. Also, the Oath is a source of wide interpretation, and doing things for the sake of spiritual balance is not uncommon. The most it would bite him in the ass is people might find it uncomfortable that he killed another Werewolf so readily or maybe a *really* hardline Blood Talon might get pissed at him and Hunt him, but the Blood Talons are already breaking the Oath as their Sacred Prey in the first place.

>>50072268
So you did. I went to public school.

>>50072344
>Oh yes. That's why werewolves fight in packs.

To clarify, the previous statement was made taking that into account. Even packs will have trouble with things that, by the fluff, they should be on more even ground with.

>>50072312
>You ever been in a gang kid you ever been to war kid?
yes
we didn't let whining like yours stand
you made a problem, you have no right to complain abotu the rules because you'r too much of a pussy to fix it

>>50072293
>you didn't seem to
>seem to skip a lot

Not really you are confusing me with the other anon. I never said he wasnt an oathbreaker. Just that whether or not they face consequences depends on how the players play their cards. They might get none or they might get plenty.

>>50072293
>also every lune, the pure totem and any survivors
>you go to a lot of lengths to whip up bullshit to defend poor gming
>is funny because your whole point came about because you saw a problem with the rules (harmony) and youre not using the ingame way to deal with it

Lunes could be. The pure totem is a no. And no survivors. And i am not whipping anything, that how the situation went and how the PCs reacted. But honestly i think is more shittier those DMs like you in which EVERY action has consequence no matter what the PC does, makes for a pretty boring games.

I dont see a problem with the harmony per say, just asking for some clarification on the rules.

>>50072293
>also every lune, the pure totem and any survivors

Lunes are famously Mad and cause insanity, and WHO would believe their enemy?

nono you see a good gm lets this happen and slowly peels back the uncertainty, and possible mistrust as people weigh in. and political rivals use it against him or dig for dirty.

Don't blame other for your noncreativity anon

>>50072360
>The most it would bite him in the ass is people might find it uncomfortable that he killed another Werewolf so readily or maybe a *really* hardline Blood Talon might get pissed at him and Hunt him, but the Blood Talons are already breaking the Oath as their Sacred Prey in the first place.

oh no, the worst would be if he goes telling it to the local Iron master. Then it is limb chopping time, best part is the iron master is the mentor and the character think he would totally back him up.

>>50072360
>The Pure really are basically NeoNazis. They're Werewolf Supremacists, and Anshega Supremacists at that.
the pure aren't authoritarian nationalists
>Not just the Ivory Claws.
honoring lineage
>Also, the Oath is a source of wide interpretation, and doing things for the sake of spiritual balance is not uncommon.
to this degree it is
if its wide interpretation stands that there's someone around who believes its wrong
>The most it would bite him in the ass is people might find it uncomfortable that he killed another Werewolf so readily or maybe a *really* hardline Blood Talon might get pissed at him and Hunt him, but the Blood Talons are already breaking the Oath as their Sacred Prey in the first place.
also the predator kings
if you would READ
you see that they deal with oathbreakers
>>50072001
harshly
but just defend lousy gming and your wrong view of neonazis, its easier for you

>>50072412
>Lunes are famously Mad and cause insanity, and WHO would believe their enemy?
blood talons, storm lords, bone shadows, iron masters, hunters in darkness would believe a lune

>nono you see a good gm lets this happen and slowly peels back the uncertainty,
hes not doing shit but being lazy gm
the thing this channel encourages

>>50072397
The preschool after school specials doesn't count Anon, neither does popping shrooms off the fan blades

>Calls Anon a whiner. Whines about people getting away with murder

Wow that's a lot of projection, so you voting for Trump next week right?

>>50072492
>hes not doing shit but being lazy gm
>the thing this channel encourages

No, actually i am just letting the player breath and make a bed for themselves. Might be a confy bed....or one made of silver dildos

>>50072492
creative storytelling to complement murderhobo and thus enriching the setting?

>>50072492
>lunes are straight for once
>assuming lunes saw it

good luck with that one anon

>>50072388
>>50072268
It's not that things in 1e were overpowered, it's that werewolves were underpowered.

>>50072448
... why would an Iron Master care?

>>50072455
The Pure are authoritarian, and nationalist. They literally want to establish a Pure nation.
Who the fuck cares about the Predator Kings? They'll already want to kill you for being Forsaken. They also don't give a shit about the Oath of the Moon.

>>50072492
You know, in addition to never using capitals, you also constantly show you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

>>50069507
bumping for interest

>>50072706
Interest in what? Who cares?

>>50072693
>They also don't give a shit about the Oath of the Moon.

One correction in an otherwise good reply. The PKs don't need another reason to go after you

>>50072693

>... why would an Iron Master care?

He is the mentor of the PC (no bought with points) and to him, killing a pure is a big deal.

>>50072693

>They also don't give a shit about the Oath of the Moon.

Would the predator kings care about the oath of father wolf? They as tribe despise father wolf for being weak and the pure book mention that a point of contention between Predator Kings and Fire Touched is the latter veneration of father wolf.

R8 my campaign idea

>Nyarlathotep expy comes to earth
>Blows the lid off of every masquerade
>Massive witch hunt of the supernatural ensues
>Nearly every supernatural community is decimated
>Remaining authorities/elders are unhelpful, believe that laying low is their best chance of survival
>Don't realize the threat the Black Pharaoh poses
>Ragtag band of supernaturals/monsters join together as guerrilla fighters to stop his schemes
>Important mission is escorting and protecting another member of his race on earth, so that he cannot find her to breed
>Culminates in awakening ancient forces such as Lucifer, Caine, Gaia, etc, to force him off the planet

That's about what I have so far, to justify a mixed-splat campaign. I know it's very animu and relies on me ignoring the entire metaplot, but my players won't mind either of these things.

>>50072873
Harp seal/10

>>50072782
Interesting How are you going to play it out?

If it were me::
Because he's like a mentor bought with points, I would have him explain why this is fucked up, and then make him do some kind of repentance. And if he doesn't do that modify those mentor dots into contact/ally dots to represent him nolonger taking an active role in the PC's learning, effectively distancing himself from the character, but not taking away the player's dots.

>>50072873

Honestly not as bad as most of the cannon metaplot examples

>>50071471
>great example of shitty roleplayer
At least he was honest, he could as easily make up some better reason to commit another breaking point. It wouldn't really make any difference, result would be same.

>>50071057
Looking into rules, it's interesting situation. Breaking Oath of the Moon is breaking point towards flesh and at the same time killing human/wolf(and I think it applies to werewolves too) is breaking point towards spirit.

>>50072973
>I would have him explain why this is fucked up, and then make him do some kind of repentance. And if he doesn't do that modify those mentor dots into contact/ally dots to represent him nolonger taking an active role in the PC's learning, effectively distancing himself from the character, but not taking away the player's dots.

He didnt bought the mentor with point, he adquire him during the game but never wanted to pay for him because he wanted a shaky relationship.

If he (the pc) goes and tell the Iron master that he killed a pure in cold blood the rl would sour, maybe if the PC does some repentance as you said. However, if he goes with the full truth then he is just as bad as the pure in the eyes of the Iron master. The PC thinks the mentor was on his side as so far he had help him a lot which was mostly because the PC was going nutty wolf and the Iron master wanted to save him.

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>>50045549
By longing for some of that old-fashioned M:tAsc gonzo cosmic adventure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAnQc-mRaRg

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>>50073394
AH

In that case much lulz will be had good luck Anon and may all your dice rolls land high

>>50072693
>The Pure are authoritarian, and nationalist. They literally want to establish a Pure nation.
they want to create a newworld and not an authoritarian one
individual freedom is the first rule they have
whole point of getting rid of lunashit
>Who the fuck cares about the Predator Kings? They'll already want to kill you for being Forsaken. They also don't give a shit about the Oath of the Moon.
cuz they exist as plot elements for people who dishonor the hunt like by killing people for clothes
>You know, in addition to never using capitals, you also constantly show you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
i demonstrably know more than you

>>50071395
I've been playing Werewolf 2e for almost a year now, and yes, it does actively encourage killing people for no other reason than losing Harmony (although note that if said killing is breaking the Oath of the Moon, you'll then have to roll not to have your harmony go back UP, which is more likely to happen than with the roll to have it go down.

2e Harmony is neat in idea and awful in execution. Murder, cannibalism, and fucking off into the Shadow for months straight and not getting to play your character are basically your only options.

The only people I've seen who actually like the new Harmony system and have actually played 2e are people who completely threw out the existing list of Sins in favor of purely ST-judged "that feels Spirity/Fleshy enough to provoke a Harmony roll".

>>50072360
>There are plenty of irresistible powers.
Oh really? Show them to me.

>>50071795
It's so you can do the classic "wolfman transforms -> cut away -> the room is full of corpses and the wolfman's jaws are dripping with blood". Except here the cutaway is handled as a single diceroll.

>>50072360
>Also, the Oath is a source of wide interpretation
How does this jive with "Breaking the Oath of the Moon is a Breaking Point toward Flesh at -3 dice"? Couldn't they shake it out by figuring out which actions do and do not cause werewolves to get fleshier?

>>50073837
yeah thats the system as intended. Getting to balanced harmony means cutting out more of the flesh than the spirit that humans typically do.

You have really try to get harmony 10 or harmony 0. The higher the Human side the more you have shut out the spirit to rise in harmony. Like actively shuting down the spiritual world.

Likewise to get lower more spirit you have to really open up the spiritual world. The list of sins are more of the guide line than the end all be all.

Lots of PCs stick with medium levels, more because of convenience. i hunt spirits, but I really like canned ham.

>>50073673
>i demonstrably know more than you
I'm not even sure that is a sentence, Anon.

If a new video game gets released akin to Bloodlines, would you rather it take place in VTM or VTR?

>>50073901
So it's just a fancy name for Down and Dirty Combat? ok fair enough

>>50074331
VtM, that way it'd actually get the funding it'd need.

>>50074331
VtR Because I never liked the meta-plot in oWoD.

>>50074341
Gauru forces anyone notably weaker into Down and Dirty combat, yeah. I'll go dig up the definition for "notably weaker", since that's my own wording.

>>50075074
> Primal Fear: Gauru force all lesser enemies — including most humans, spirits of lower Rank, and non supernatural animals — to use Down and Dirty combat (see p. 165). If the prey hides in a group of more powerful enemies, resolve the combat as normal. In normal combat, opponents count only their Dexterity or Wits to their Defense; they may not add the appropriate Skill (normally Athletics).

So basically, anybody who's metaphysically"less" than you. Normal humans in the grip of Lunacy, spirits (who are metaphysically vulnerable to beings of higher Rank, to the point where that automatically deals Agg damage). That particular advantage doesn't help much against other supernatural creatures, especially if you interpret the "in normal combat" as specifically referring to the situation in the previous sentence.

So... How does one do Down & Dirty combat against whole groups of enemies?
A teamwork on their part, or what?

>>50076424
One of two ways. Team work if they're strong enough to fight but not enough to really stand a chance or as a single action if it's a group of guys who have no chance. Catching an entire room of guys flat footed with a squad support weapon? Probably just one roll.

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I tried to figure out if it's worth playing/having a Taurobolis Ghoul, seems it's worth having until it's throwing more than seven dice, in which case it would have been better off reborn as a normal ghoul.

For context, Taurobolis Ghouls get the Nosferatu Curse from being too pretty, tens don't explode, ones subtract from successes. But, they also take one Resolve die off people nearby. So, here's the graph, with the first seven dice recolored. Each bar to the right is the Galloi Ghoul, the ones to the left are the normal mortal/ghoul type.

Taurobolis ghouls also are uberfertile. Anything resembling sex becomes a pregnancy.

Would a Promethean's Azoth cause some shit to go down in the Spirit World when it causes Wasteland? Could it be possible that Prometheans have been hunted down in the past by Werewolves?

>>50077304
I would run it as such. The spirit world generally reflects the real world, and that's why spirits want to cross, to make their changes so their type of essence flows.

>>50077304
Yeah. Ulgans especially.

ITT - Chrodniggers heap derision and scorn on Apocalypse even as they mine it for ideas and inspiration

>>50077560
I don't mind being called a Chrodnigger, but I DO object to the accusation of using ANYTHING from the shitfest that is Apocalypse as inspiration.

Any ideas when Secrets of the Covenants is going to come out?

>>50077788
Ha. Never.

>>50077847
>>50077847
>>50077847

Newt Red

>>50073673
The Pure are pretty authoritarian. "We will be the rulers of the new world" isn't exactly the most egalitarian philosophy.
Predator Kings do not care about the Oath of the Moon, they care about murdering Forsaken for killing other Anshega.
>i demonstrably know more than you
Snrt.
Oh wait, you're serious.

>>50073837
You have to remember that the examples are only examples. Chris has given good advice on Harmony: When someone fucks off the Hunt to hang out with family? That's towards Flesh. When someone fucks off family to go on the Hunt? That's Spirit. It's not just about the big things like murdering people or going on month long spiritual journeys to center yourself.
That's not "throwing it out", that's not being limited to it.

>>50073860
I listed Awe elsewhere, and that's just in Vampire. There's also the Blood Bond. You may be able to resist the effects, but vinculum itself is basically always there. There are also Auspice powers that aren't resisted, like the "can cross any distance" one. Oh, there's also Knockout Punch.

>>50073951
This might surprise you, but the Harmony Breaking Points are not set in stone, nor are they something concrete within the setting. You can't suss it out, in part because it's not necessarily going to be the same for everyone, and in part because "Harmony" is not a measurable thing within the setting any more than "Happiness" is in the real world.

>>50074331
It's unfortunately going to take place in the One World Of Darkness version of Masquerade.

>>50076142
>>50075074
>>50074341
>So it's just a fancy name for Down and Dirty Combat? ok fair enough
The specific mechanic is exactly that. The thing about stronger opponents only losing skill to Defense is so that the final battle with a badass Spirit or Vampire isn't turned into D&DC and made anticlimactic. You're supposed to NEED that advantage on the Hunt.

>>50076995
>Taurobolis Ghouls get the Nosferatu Curse from being too pretty
I don't think they do. Or at least I certainly don't remember anything of the sort, and I've played one before. The Galloi are my favourite Bloodline. Anyone can benefit from Taurobolium, and they don't suffer the clan Flaw, they just get bonus social die. I kind of want to make Galloi for 2e now...

>>50077114
That's a Devotion.

>>50077304
That's literally what Ulgan Wasteland does.

>>50077560
No one is mining anything from Apocalypse. The only thing worth a damn is the concept of Lupus. Everything else is garbage. What are you even talking about? Could you point to something in particular where you feel "Chrodniggers" are looking to Apocalypse for ideas, or are you just really bad at reading the thread?