/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

How hard is it to sneak enough blood to blood bond somebody into them? Like through food, or drink?

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ZHE ZHI ZHO ZUM, I SMELL THE BLOOD OF CIS SCUM.

>>50078259
possible just got to be careful. Cooking is a no go for the most part. human body has about 5 liters so one blood point is about half a liter.

So possible and it is a trope of the genera. But you have to remember vamp blood has a very particular real taste that's almost impossible to miss if you already know what it is. so again possible but you're going to have to be a sneaky get to pull it off

>>50078362
>Things that are not human and were never human don't have normal human self-identities, especially when they can completely reconfigure said identities at will
I see nothing wrong with the Demon one.

>>50078362
Wow that Jess blurb is pretentious as fck. all the other blurbs are mostly ok, but that last line. ugh it's like the editor slipped one last line in before the printing.

I wonder if The Crossover Chronicle will have weird template fusions like the one one the forums right now.

>>50078362
Dr Jess is bad, but I don't see any problem with the other two.

>>50078526
Doubt it. It was just Hill having a bit of a lark.

>>50078526
To Quote MachineIV on it:
>I have no idea, honestly. I know exactly as much about The Crossover Chronicle as you do.

>>50078563

I could see it becoming a thing if that fusion catches on like wildfire on the forums, but yeah, I think you're right.

>>50078362
>getting mad enough about the gender of a fictional character to compile a mosiac image solely to complain about it

Your bait is shit and also missing the M20 sidebar that everyone whines about.

>>50078826
No, that'd have to include oWoD stuff, and that doesn't fit the "CofD is SJW" narrative.

I bet that Boston Baseball cabal is shitting themselves with joy, assuming that the Cubs didn't win the World Series before now in the CofD.

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>>50078427
I don't really see anything wrong with any of them. Even the Mortal Remains one everyone hates.

>>50078259
It's essentially left vague on purpose, as far as I can tell. Does "three drinks" mean three separate incidents? Or can you shove three points of Vitae down someone's throat? Personally, I feel that just from a narrative standpoint, the vitae should have to have a chance to "settle" first, and it should at least require three separate scenes.

>>50078447
>>50078563
I've honestly never understood this, and people getting upset over it seem like justification for it. It's the same as all of those people pointing out that if you have trouble believing Dumbledore is gay, but no problem believing he's a wizard, you're the one with a problem.
It's completely right. "If you have no problem with violence and supernatural horror but aren't comfortable with this thing that exists in real life to no one's detriment, maybe you might consider why that is". I mean, fuck, I can think of several ways to be more explicit about it.

>>50078826
Also missing some from other books. I also love this one, especially for Brucato's crazy "there's enough magick for everyone" line, because I'm pretty sure much like Grant Morrison and Alan Moore, he believes the book itself is magic(k).

>>50078891
>I've honestly never understood this, and people getting upset over it seem like justification for it. It's the same as all of those people pointing out that if you have trouble believing Dumbledore is gay, but no problem believing he's a wizard, you're the one with a problem.
>It's completely right. "If you have no problem with violence and supernatural horror but aren't comfortable with this thing that exists in real life to no one's detriment, maybe you might consider why that is". I mean, fuck, I can think of several ways to be more explicit about it.

Inventing new pronouns is not in any way going to solve transphobia. Use the pronoun of the gender you identify as. The body is irrelevant. Trying to invent a new pronoun for yourself just makes you look as an attention-seeking idiot.

>>50078891
The issue with the Mortal Remains one was that a book I paid for called me a bad person for rolling my eyes at a 6,000 year old mummy attaching to a social trend that they'd see as ridiculous-or blasphemous if a scribe.

Its bad writing combined with taking a political point and directly attacking the reader with it. WoD's always used politics to sell its books and whatever, its a part of the genre, but Mortal Remains's blurb in particular struck me as something a competent editor would've toned down-especially since "remember my pronouns!" is barely a thing anymore, most people just use the plural pronoun for people in transition, so now its insulting AND dated.

>>50079022

Nonstandard oronouns are plenty common, and a creature that already views itself as a metaphysical occult construct of memories loosely attached to some long-dead jerky has every reason to find a mortal trend that describes what's always felt right novel. Are you tryong to say that an Arisen using a cell phone is unrealistic, too? Hell no. A large of the game is being an ancient thing thrust into the modern world, and everything suggests "new" concepts of gender are just as useful to one as new technologies.

This is the same shit people pull when they act like trans folks didn't exist a few decades ago when they actually just lacked the vocabulary and social safety for it.

The sentiment expressed in the sidebar is right: if mummy superheroes are cool but actual identities people use in the world today strain your credulity too much to handle, your priorities are out of order.

>>50078945
I'm not sure how to say this without coming off as condescending, but your understanding of this issue seems very limited.

>Inventing new pronouns is not in any way going to solve transphobia.
It's not intended to. If transphobia ends due to everyone realizing that gender is a social construct, and that we can construct new ones as easily as we create music or movie genres, that's more of an afterthought.
>Use the pronoun of the gender you identify as.
This statement is the one that makes me feel you don't understand the situation. The reason for those pronouns is that those nonbinary people don't identify well with either of the conventional genders.
>The body is irrelevant.
You are aware that dysphoria is a physiological ailment, right? That it causes emotional distress? And emotional distress in and of itself is a physical thing. When people say they "feel" sad or angry or happy, that's not just a metaphor, it's an actual physiological sensation.
>Trying to invent a new pronoun for yourself just makes you look as an attention-seeking idiot.
I'm trying not to be condescending but this really does just come off as hateful and antagonistic. You don't really seem like you *want* to understand the issue, you just want to dismiss it out of hand without any sort of empathy. People come up with new pronouns or new gender terms to describe themselves because people by and large want to feel a sense of self-worth and self-determination and self-acceptance, and all sorts of other things that have the prefix "self-". There are no doubt several things that you do in your daily life that are more attention seeking, and even then, if we as humans did nothing attention seeking, we'd only wear dull grey clothing and never work on our appearances beyond the bare minimum for hygiene.

I can't believe we're doing the gender sidebar derail again. I wish people would learn to just ignore the damn things if it really bothers them.

Anyone know if there was ever a Mage hack that allowed for a Pathless character creation? Choosing your own two Arcana strengths and your one Arcana weakness and all that? I feel like Mage Chronicler's Guide had something like that, but I don't have a copy on me to check.

>>50079022
Maybe you are a bad person, if that's what you read it out of it. Because what it says is that if you get upset over it, perhaps you should reflect on WHY it might be that you're upset. Which, I'll note, you don't seem to be doing.
More than that, though, a 6,000 year old Mummy that's been through several different bodies and likely been both genders and even other ethnicities.
> "remember my pronouns!" is barely a thing anymore
It's barely ever been a thing before. I should have mentioned it in my last post, but barely anyone is a stickler for pronouns aside from she/he and they (which is not called "the plural pronoun"; it's singular, it's just conjugated as if it were plural).
>a social trend that they'd see as ridiculous-or blasphemous
I'll let Jakki handle that.

>>50079076
But Mummy superheroes aren't cool

>>50079140
That's more or less what it was, yeah. My first Mage game was like that.
No Path, choose your Arcana, ST chose our weakness. I think we got to choose which Resistance Attribute we got (that's standard in 2e)

>>50079140

Mage Chronicler's Guide has that, called "Warlocks of Arcadia."

>>50079076
>Nonstandard pronouns are plenty common
No, they aren't. Get off the internet and interact with real people. Hell, if you get five people to acknowledge your made-up gender with your made-up pronouns in real life, I'll change my vote to Hillary Clinton.

>>50079076
>Nonstandard oronouns are plenty common
Where, FurAffinity?

>>50079103
I'm not big on the whole "gender as social construct" shtick. It just gets used an awful lot by cis hetero bros to make trans women feel like some separate, third gender "neither up nor down." If gender is simply a construct, why are some folks so tortured by what they were not born as?

>>50079165
>>50079193

Thanks, ya'll. I knew it was in there somewhere. Now to go find where I put the damn thing...

>>50079198
Lol you're going to be in tears, all "election fraud! Count the black votes!" Come Nov 9th, and if you aren't you'll be living under a totalitarian fascist state LOL #steamingtrump #borntoloose

>>50079198

I've said this before and I've said it again: my IRL friend group has all of one cis person in it. Just because you aren't associating with queer folks doesn't mean we aren't out there.

>>50079270
Eh. I know like, one LGBTI person, and I can't fucking stand them.

>>50079345

Cool.

>>50079198
I know several people who've done that. Kate Borstein uses ze/hir.
That said, I will disagree with Jakki there. Plenty of people *prefer* those pronouns, but very few if any people will get upset if you don't use them, unless you're intentionally misgendering them (i.e. using "he" simply because they're AMAB)

>>50079214
Those cis hetero bros don't understand what the phrase means. I mean, transgender people are the ones most championing that philosophy. It's essentially about how gender roles are not set in stone, and are completely based on societal norms. Men used to not wear pants. Many cultures have had multiple genders. The notion of "this is male, this is female, these are the strict things that define them" is relatively recent.

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>>50079345
You know what, let's talk about these games.

Is anyone here interested in Monsterhearts? The 2e Kickstarter has been going on since about Halloween.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/averyalder/monsterhearts-2

I made a thread about it the other day, but that turned out about as well as you could imagine.

>>50079076
>>50079270
>my IRL friend group has all of one cis person in it
>Nonstandard poronouns are plenty common

You're own limited bubble or self-selection is not determinative of what is or is not "plenty common" with respect to the general public. Further, that you consider nonstandard pronouns to be a "good" is not a reflection of their wider acceptance or use.

I personally couldn't care less about the issue, and I assume the vast majority of people haven't given the issue any consideration whatsoever. While I would likely use the pronouns in private interactions if requested, I would not use them in professional correspondence precisely due to their ambiguity, lack of acceptance and simple awkwardness.

On a related matter, if the goal is to encourage acceptance of alternative pronouns, I would suggest choosing only one or two rather than the near limitless pronouns that creep up in discussion. Additionally only choose words that are easy to pronounce. "Z" should be avoided, and forget about a singular "they" as the public considers it a plural term, historical contentions notwithstanding.

>>50079460

There's been a lot of drama since she cut Mike Diaz Truman from the project.

Which I'm with her on, by the way, even if I do like his work.

>>50079544
>and forget about a singular "they" as the public considers it a plural term, historical contentions notwithstanding.

Why would you go through all that effort to disagree with the least-contentious thing on the table?

>>50079636

It's not really the least contentious because it's potentially one of the most confusing terms, particularly in business and similar correspondence and other documents.

"They" might not be not a new word, but it still has a lot of acceptance and use problems due to the singular vs. plural issue. Arguing that it was once used for singular reference a very long time ago doesn't really positively encourage acceptance.

>>50079270
And I have one trans person in my group, and one who used to be.
Your anecdotal evidence isn't any more valid than mine is.

>>50079619
Who?

>>50079544
The whole point is that it's limitless and you're not beholden to any specific term. Also, Singular They is more and more widely accepted, to the point that it was the Word of the Year. Your layman opinions really mean nothing. Whether you feel people should or shouldn't do something really has no bearing on reality, much to everyone's dismay.

>>50079750
Her anecdote was "these people exist, which is counter to anon saying they don't"

No offenese to anyone anywhere, but I am firmly in the, I-don't-give-a-shit-stop-giving-me-extra-work-to-deal-with camp. or the IDGASSGMEWTDW for short.

Seriously I'm not putting extra work to insult or pamper to anyone, so I just don't care, and I'm not going to put in anymore work for complete stranger, unless I actually meet them in RL. You're just a name until I meet you in meat space. and Even then it's not my fcuking business what's in you pants unless we're about to do the horizontal tango. so can We collectively get this over with and then continue with making fun of each other over a game?

Cease this pronoun and gender bullshit before it gets out of hand and derails yet another thread.
Why don't we brainstorm WWI era hunter groups?

>>50079817
>Why don't we brainstorm WWI era hunter groups?
Why? That sounds terrible.

I want to make more Bloodlines and Lodges and Legacies. Or Hunter Orgs that aren't limited to a particular time period.

>>50079817
Focused on the war, or in the civilian life by the sidelines?

>>50079817

Not the right war but, Inglorious bastards?

>>50078362
the werewolf thing is cringy and super Magical Realm.
Demon thing makes sense and is fine, I actually like that detail.
The last one feels so patronising and is actively mocking the audience.

>>50079890

The Werewolf one makes perfect sense because they're half-spirit, and therefore fluid. You'll notice a lot of Mother Wolf, Father Luna stuff because of that.

Read the book before bitching, please.

>>50079830
CodeCrackers Legacy? Fate and Prime to crack the hidden meaning in code whither German or Seer in origin?

>>50079817

Mortal Remains describes the Sin-Eaters of the era as Fog Walkers, maybe start there?

>>50079913
Was I bitching? I was simply stating instant reactions from reading it.

>>50079866
>>50079866
>Hunter Jews killing Nazi Zombies and vampires.
I can dig it.

>>50079913
Please just let it go. This has been going on and on since the Belt of gender change was a thing. Spirituality doesn't have much to do with gender.

Come on join the fun.
>>50079830

Anyone have anything with werewolves and a BrotherHood of Steel mashup? Brotherhood of Steam? Like with the rising industrial age. Steam became a power tool and thus the spirits of Steam found themselves patronized and became benefactors to wielders and craftsmen? Fire and water were almost always opposites until steam power brought them together. Like a buddy cop movie.

Water: Fire you're a loose can that doesn't play by the rules!
Fire: And You're slipper weasle who always slips through the cracks
Steam: Damn it You're both the best officers we got and from Now On you'll be working together

>>50079953
With their American Ally, Blazkowicz. Their more saboteurs than straight up fighters. Which is why they call Blazkowicz a cowboy, when he goes full hog

>>50079917
I didn't mean WWI Bloodlines/Lodges/Legacies. Though I guess that works.

>>50080012
With his Aryan Features he often disguises himself to get the upperhand....just don't ask him to speak german.

>>50078259
As difficult as secretly getting half a liter of your fluid into somebody.

I think it's fun. Some groups could still be around today or become part of modern ones (German occultists becoming the original Thule Society, US agents being part of proto-Valkyrie). Plus I already have made a ton of janky bloodlines, but almost no hunter orgs.
>>50079857
Why not both?
>>50079866
That's basically WWII Valkyrie.
>>50079918
It's a start. Here's what I have at the moment:
>Hermetic mages with divided loyalties
>Russians trying to weaponise vampirism
>Italian futurists with fingers in every pie

>>50079796
>Whether you feel people should or shouldn't do something really has no bearing on reality, much to everyone's dismay.
>Proponents of queer theory.
>Reality

Anon? I have bad news

>>50078860
That's Uncle Phil.

He doesn't count.

>>50079796
>Your layman opinions really mean nothing.

Then why do you keep posting

>>50080499
4/10

>>50078945
>Trying to invent a new pronoun for yourself just makes you look as an attention-seeking idiot.

(Because they are)

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>>50078831
>>Taurobolis Ghouls get the Nosferatu Curse from being too pretty
>I don't think they do. Or at least I certainly don't remember anything of the sort, and I've played one before. The Galloi are my favourite Bloodline. Anyone can benefit from Taurobolium, and they don't suffer the clan Flaw, they just get bonus social die. I kind of want to make Galloi for 2e now...
Right, so that's not actually true. The taurobolium ghouls have the same curse as their masters.

>First, the ghoul becomes eerily attractive, much like a recently bathed Pretty, becoming almost genderless in his appearance. His skin turns smooth and pale like marble, his eyes grow ringed with gray and his limbs appear lithe and delicate. Thus, the ghoul suffers the standard Nosferatu weakness (dice pools based on Presence or Manipulation are exempt from the 10 again rule, and any 1’s that come up on the roll subtract from successes), but this social failing is due to alien splendor, not fearsome disposition.
>Second, this alien beauty has an effect on those around the ghoul. Those mortals near the ghoul (within 10 yards) suffer a –1 to all rolls involving Composure. These mortals are more likely to become easily frustrated and drawn to temper or, similarly, give into their lusts or other dark proclivities.
>The third and perhaps strangest effect is on the ghoul’s fertility. Most true servants of the Galloi are infertile — they are mutilated in a way that their reproductive organs do not function. These ghouls, however, are quite the opposite. Any time the ghoul engages in any sexual act that could end in reproduction, a pregnancy results. Every instance of sexual intimacy to climax results in pregnancy. Male ghouls impregnate every woman with whom they have sex, and female ghouls become pregnant from any instance of sexual intercourse. This is true even if either partner normally has nonfunctioning reproductive systems (from vasectomies, tied tubes or other biological conditions).

>>50080853
Oh, right, the ghouls made by their special Devotion.
Those are dumb.

>>50080853
For clarification, this is a ghoul that at it's ghoulification had been fed the blood of the Taurobolis, this is a special rite, not just any ghoul that was bathed in blood.

>>50080936
Nah, not that dumb. Like the graph says, they're pretty good until they start throwing over six, seven dice.

>>50080938
>>50080946
It's also important to note that you don't need to use Consent of the Magna Mater to make a Ghoul. As far as I recall, a Ghoul can learn and benefit from Taurobolium as well as any other character.

>>50080954
True. I just came to answer the question 'When is it worth making a CoMM Ghoul.

>>50080974
Never :V
The only real benefits above a normal ghoul with Taurobolium is having -1 Composure to everyone mortal around them (making them good for controlling other Ghouls, I guess) and super pregnancy.

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I need some help guys. I've been playing with taking my group through the cWoD metaplot, with the short to mid-term goal of having fun adventures, and long term seeing how sticking with the same group no matter how much power and influence they can gather will affect the Final Nights.

Thing is, our GM for our current game just threw in the towel, and I'm up. I have maybe a fortnight to prepare for my first session. I don't even have all the core books in physical form yet.

I need to know, what is the earliest 'jumping on point'/supplement that is metaplot focused in the modern setting? Is there a timeline anywhere I can use to build my chronicles?

The worst bit is I have a Mage and we saw Doctor Strange last night. There is going to be fucking paradox errywhere.

>>50078362
Actually what I find jarring is the torture and torment you are inflicting upon the english language. There are 4 gender neutral pronouns in the english language already you do not need to torture in this foolishness. If you would like to learn what these 4 pronouns are, attend a elementary school english class and pay attention.

Dark Eras companion when?

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>>50080853
>rape and impregnation fantasy: the character.
>for both genders.

Soooo... women want to be fucked by them, and will get knocked up, and men want to rape them, resulting in the victim ending up knocked up 100% of the time if they are a lady ghoul?

I... I don't think I've ever seen such a blatant manifestation of magical realm.

>>50081732
>Anything involving sex is magical realm
Man I wish people would get over their weird insecurities.

>>50081625
Please, tell me what *four* gender neutral pronouns there are. In the meantime, here's your
>(You)

>>50081761

I generally go with 'it' out of earshot. Not that guy, but what can I say, I'm helpful.

>>50081462
Your google fu needs more than zero dots.

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_(cWOD)

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>>50081772
I'd love to hear what they say about (You)

>I'm guessing they hold up fingers to indicate dick size behind yo back, bra

>>50081795

That's about as clear as blood riddled diarrhea for someone so new to the setting. I appreciate the attempt, but I already found that, and completely glossed over at the way it's presented. It doesn't help that it's messy as fuck.

Someone throwing out the name of the earliest (chronologically) pre-done adventures would be really helpful.

Can someone explain to me what is the difference between Werewolf the Apocalypse and Werewolf the Forsaken? What's the W20 deluxe? It seems to be newer than the Forsaken one.
Mage is supposed to be the strongest among these right?

>>50081923
Forsaken and Apocalypse are completely different systems and settings that have some of the same themes.They're more different than most editions of D&D.

W20 is a 20th Anniversary of Apocalypse.

>>50081911
Anything involving any sort of metaplot is going to be clear as mud.

>>50081818

Hah, so salty. I actually have an acquaintance who is trans, and he is a decent person and we get on. It's the salty fuckers who want me to change my language and worldview, when I really don't care to do so and will not be forced to, that irritate me. And even then just a little. I don't like anyone trying to force their agendas onto me. Doesn't matter who they are or what they represent. They can get fucked. In fact, it's about the most certain approach to make me apathetic to a cause, because it reeks of attention seeking.

If they are saying that about me, I don't give a shit. You know, all one of him, who is a nice guy.

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>>50077847
So what is with the clan weakness of the (VtM) Tremere?
They are only blood bonded to their elders, right?
No wonder every new player wants to play Alucard with them.

How to do this right?
I guess the GM needs to force the player to act as a proper Tremere, to play by the rules of the Clan.

Any experiences with this?

>>50082012
Anything you don't agree with is attention seeking. I wonder if you realize how often you do things for attention. Like yearning for this (You).

>>50081462

Unfortunately, these books were printed on a treadmill schedule over multiple editions, so there's no real jumping on or off point for the metaplot beside the cores and their basic assumptions. There's no real "here's what happened suppliment".

However, we live in modern times, and there is hope. There is a wiki.

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_(cWOD)

Use this to pick a starting point, use the bibliography to find the books with the metaplot details you want, and you're all set.

>>50082166
The real weakness is adhering to Tremere tradition and hierarchy or being hunted by Tremere. The first drink is to encourage loyalty. Keep their secrets, protect their interests, obey their orders, come to them first with anything interesting. Insufficient loyalty gets more drinks.

But, like, more so than most clans.

>>50082166

Dont overplay their weakness.

>>50081911
Oh, shit, well if you want the earliest example of Metaplot books, the pre-packaged adventure "Under A Blood Red Moon" took Chicago v1 to v2, killed off heaps of characters and left behind anyone who wasn't following the script, setting the precedent for Metaplot books in general.

Nights of Prophecy was nothing /but/ Metaplot.

>>50082717
Wraith: Ends of Empire set events in motion that killed the entire Wraith gameline, Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand and cut the Umbra off from Mages. What followed created the Demon and Orpheus gamelines.

Time of Thin Blood explains the Week of Nightmares, a major turning point in Masquerade, as well as the appearance of Thin Bloods and Dhampir themselves.

Often the "Year of the X" themed years by White Wolf had a central Metaplot event to give them all cohesion.

Altogether, though? Ignore it. Ignore all the metaplot if you want. Keep what bits make sense to your story. No sense in killing off all the Tremere Antitribu if your campaign is all Warlock-on-Warlock action, for example.

>>50081911

I'd suggest avoiding the metaplot related adventures, and would suggest crafting your own adventures around the events. Premade adventures for WoD are always kind of a crap shoot.

Daily reminder:
>The Lead Game Designer of White Wolf doesn't give a shit about Chrod, too busy masturbating over Media tie-ins
>OPP have spread themselves too thin, 14 game lines and few supplements
>neither company has any effective release schedule at this point

Once we were game devs
Now we are all assholes
Living in our One World... of Disappointment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wewNseVo24

>>50081625
I'm curious what the other 2 pronouns are, because I can only think of they and it.

>>50082874
Call everyone "Sir"?

Hey, guys, I've been wondering, why Disquiet does not affect supernaturals? I am not exatly interested in promithians but there is this sin-eater girls who's a freind with frankenstein and also that creepy beast who tortured his friend back into promithian how does that even work? He'd have to remove her soul and put Piros instead..
I could understand Disquiet not affecting vampites becaus their humanitas is a fake of a sort, and demons... But in case of the latter whouldn't it be a compromise if mortals supposed to be affected? That's really confusing.

>>50078362
>If you find the word "zher" jarring there's something wrong with you
>When it deliberately uses a phoneme so uncommon in the English language they had to make up a letter combination to represent it
It's LINGUISTICALLY jarring, regardless of the reader's thoughts on new pronouns. Using "zh" inherently makes it come off as an attempt to sound like a special unique snowflake by deliberately using one of the most uncommon sounds in the entire language.

If you just went with "Dr. Jones refuses to identify as either male or female, and prefers people use the singular 'they'" no-one would care. Hell, I KNOW someone like that.

>>50082904
>Beast who tortured his friend back into a Promethean
What the fuck? Is that in the Beast book?

>>50082915
*shrug* it's 2016 now. Gender is a quantum state. Therefore, we need words for Male, Female, Both and Neither. Complaining about new words etc. is just asinine - language changes organically as it's used. Go ask the French how successful they are at preventing the youth from using words like "email", "Facebook", "iPhone" - they can't do dick. If everyone starts using Zhie to refer to Zhier selves, there's jack shit you, me and Zhier can do about it.

>>50082936

That's not quite what happens, but a story in The Primordial Feast is about a Beast who attempts to torture her Redeemed former friend in hopes that they'll be monster buddies again.

>>50082904

Yes, Demons themselves don't feel Disquiet but must have their Covers express it or risk Compromise, that's in the Storyteller's Guide.

>>50082166
Can she kill people with that jaw?

>>50082915
>>If you find the word "zher" jarring there's something wrong with you
That's not what that says you fuck.
And stop with this "special unique snowflake" bullshit. The amount of things the average human being already does to be a special unique snowflake is astounding, and acting like there's something inherently wrong with that is hypocritical as fuck.
You're basically just virtue signalling that your virtues are against things.

>>50082991
To be fair, the French tried to create a new word for email, and it didn't work because no one felt comfortable using it. I don't think these pronouns will catch on, but the backlash against them is childish all the same.

>>50079913
>The Werewolf one makes perfect sense because they're half-spirit, and therefore fluid. You'll notice a lot of Mother Wolf, Father Luna stuff because of that.
That one's more due to the wording of "the only reason for your game to not include mpreg is if your players specifically don't want their male characters impregnated", which is... weird.

>>50083337
>That's not what that says you fuck.
Sure it does. What's jarring to the ear in a linguistic sense and what's jarring in terms of fictional story content (like werewolves who eat people and vampires who drink blood) are completely different topics. They're comparing apples to oranges. A person is entirely capable of finding certain sounds jarring to the ear but not certain horror fiction concepts jarring to the imagination without needing to see a therapist.

>You're basically just virtue signalling that your virtues are against things.
Is it normal to be laughing your ass off after being accused of "virtue signalling"? If so, I'm not sure why people think it's an effective accusation.

>>50082904
Disquiet DOES affect supernaturals (except for demons, due to their "complete control over my own mind and how it expresses things" power trumping Disquiet (although they still have to ACT like they're subject to Disquiet or break Cover). Vampires become more subject to Frenzy, Werewolves become more subject to Death Rage (IIRC), Mages are subject to Disquiet in the same way as any other human. Not sure on Changelings, Sin-Eaters, etc. Beasts probably aren't, due to their whole "everyone is family" theme.

>>50081186
I just brought the graph, what else do you waaaaant

The graph says that if you're rolling less than six dice in Manipulation/Presentation, Magna Mater is good. You can see that the blue (2 successes higher than the enemy) is high!

>>50081732
...You have a point, that ghoul lands exactly in Magical Realm. Huh.

>Second, this alien beauty has an effect on those around the ghoul. Those mortals near the ghoul (within 10 yards) suffer a –1 to all rolls involving Composure. These mortals are more likely to become easily frustrated and drawn to temper or, similarly, give into their lusts or other dark proclivities.

>>50081761
>>Anything involving sex is magical realm
>Man I wish people would get over their weird insecurities.
Spoilers: lots of people have an impregnation fetish. Always impregnating every time you fuck is ABSOLUTELY some people's magical realm.

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WHY THE FUCK IS TRANGRESSION OF ATTIS SO GODDAMN EXPENSIVE?

Jees, it's 33 xp, Majesty 2, Obfuscate 3, and Taurobolium 5 for a sex-change ritual that HAS NO MECHANICAL BENEFIT. Seriously, what?

>>50078427
Start calling yourself Xhe/Xim/Xir and that'll blow your cover because most people will think that's weird

>>50083756
One of the least magical realm things I've seen pertaining to ghouls. VtR 1e had a ghoul book in which there was a ghoul family in which sons drink their mother's period blood straight from the tap.

>>50083788
It reflects real life

>>50083788

Its a nearly unique effect, other than blood magic.

>>50083788
oWoD does't take that tranny shit lightly

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>>50083926
Hehe, ouch.

>>50083914
I can't handle that.

How do ghoul families work, anyway? Is that a good reason to use the Magna Mater Ghouls?

>>50083950
>>50083958
Does the unique effect justify the expense?

>>50083914
That's kinda hot

>>50083958
Taurobolium (sp) is nwod.
owod has Vicissitude. Vicissitude 2 is free sex changes, futanari catgirls, the works.

>>50083990

OH. MY GOD.

>>50083994
That's really frickin cheap.

>>50084004
Psst, I think he's teasing.

I've been peeking at Bloodlines the Legendary a bit. Do the Hungry seem a bit weak to you guys?

>>50083788
Because perfectly changing sex is actually a big deal. If a man were to magically become a woman, they would look completely different and become extremely difficult to recognize.

>>50083985

>How do ghoul families work, anyway?

They're a thing. There is a system. I don't find them terribly worthwhile for, well, anything.

>Does the unique effect justify the expense?

The cost is based off the level and disciplines used. It does not have to justify the expense.

>>50081923
>Mage is supposed to be the strongest among these right?

Yes and no. Mages can get terribly powerful, but they are also the weakest. Someone shooting a Mage who isn't ready will kill that guy,

>>50084021
>That's really frickin cheap.

It is.

Add to this the fact that Vicissitude has rules for transmitting like an infection for anyone who tastes the blood, and many diverse creatures may well have it (including Tremere and Gargoyles) and you have a recipe for the hentai dimension.

I have heard people argue that the way "hentai" means "pervert/perversion" not just in the sense of "hentai watching perverts" but in "perversion of the flesh" and refers to tissues, organs, and emotional reaction stretched pass the limits of nature, sanity and good taste.

>>50083914
That depends on if you're judging degree of magical realm by "how likely is this to repulse people who don't have this fetish" or "how likely is this to be somebody's fetish".

The original comic would lean toward the former, but /tg/'s common usage of the term (as in "I was playing in a game where I inadvertently ended up in my magical realm when the GM introduced X") is usually the latter.

>>50084077

Mages have innate mana based regeneration powers and natural armor, there is no "not ready" for them and they are not squishy.

They're just another normal kind of monster.

>>50083994
>Vicissitude 2 is free sex changes, futanari catgirls, the works.
I think that's more of the "magic plastic surgery" kind. I don't think it can turn you from a fully-functional fertile female into a fully-functional fertile male, for example. It's sculpting preexisting flesh, not generating a completely new set of gonads.

>>50082759
Do we know how the Wraith 20th anniversary edition will handle the Sixth Great Maelstrom?

>>50082362
>he disagrees with me
>he must be a troll!!!!

Are all trannies this delusional or are you a special case?

>>50084110
>Mages have innate mana based regeneration powers
That are terrible, and don't help if you get oneshot. It's what, 3 Mana per 1 health box cleared? And that's limited by your Mana-per-turn expenditure limit. They can shoot you three more times in the time it takes your Gnosis 1 Mage to regenerate 1 lethal damage from the first shot.
>and natural armor
It's not natural armor, it's magical armor that they have to deliberately activate, that costs Mana. Mages don't have Mage Armor up 24/7.

>>50084023
I get that, sure, but that's all on the GM. GM can say 'Oh, you look exactly the same, only girly. No Subterfuge bonuses for you, it's not in the rules.'

>>50084091
Fair enough, but I also draw the line to the degree that it counts as a fetish in the strict term as well (that is, to what degree it is a nonsexual object required for sexual function).

This is just generic high sexual functionality, so the fetish factor is absolutely minimal.

>>50084110
Their regeneration is really slow, and really expensive, compared to the others. And activating Mage Armour costs Mana.
Oh, and by the way, all the other splats have armour similar to it, and additional reinforcements besides.
They are monsters yes, but the squishiest monster when surprised.

>>50084120

If I recall correctly, it's set before the Maelstrom.

>>50084116
Its completely 100% reasonable to apply limits to Vicissitude. There are, however, very very few limits or even guidelines on what the heck Vicissitude can do. The topic of fertility never occurred to me due to never seeing anyone try a real sex change and most important NPCs in a VtM chronicle being sterile anyway.

>>50082991
>literally starts post with le current year

Is there something Inherent in this game that attracts the tumblr crowd?

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>>50084090
>I have heard people argue that the way "hentai" means "pervert/perversion" not just in the sense of "hentai watching perverts" but in "perversion of the flesh" and refers to tissues, organs, and emotional reaction stretched pass the limits of nature, sanity and good taste.
Unless you're a /d/eviant.

>>50084195
>Its completely 100% reasonable to apply limits to Vicissitude. There are, however, very very few limits or even guidelines on what the heck Vicissitude can do.
I've played Tzimisce before. By the book, there's very little it actually CAN do. It provides certain predefined combat options and that's about it; the rest is down to ST fiat and mother-may-I.

By the RAW there's no way to do almost all the shit Tzimisce are shown doing in the game's own fluff.

>>50084146
>That are terrible

Oh fucking well. The difference isn't enough to be worth noting, is the point.

>They can shoot you three more times in the time it takes your Gnosis 1 Mage to regenerate 1 lethal damage from the first shot.

Unless you're a stupidly high blood potency vampire or in gauru form, you can always shoot them faster than they regenerate.

>Mages don't have Mage Armor up 24/7.

Certainly it is safe to say a mage will have mage armor up whenever doing anything the least bit relevant.

>>50084120
>>50084190
Incredibly, unbelievably gay. I was hoping for final fucking word on how to handle a wraith character after the whole rejuggling of the underworld.

>>50084214
Obviously it is ST fiat and mother-may-I, but I have never heard of anyone thinking the combat applications are all you can do, especially considering all the different examples of people doing weird stuff with Vicissitude.

>>50084219
>Mage Armor requires a point of Mana to activate with a reflexive action, whereupon it remains active for the scene, even if the mage falls unconscious, unless the mage dies. A mage can only benefit from one form of Mage Armor at a time, but can spend Mana to change between Arcana as a reflexive action. Mage Armors that increase Defense work against surprise attacks.
If you're spending one Mana every scene any time you do anything, you're going to be running out of Mana very quickly. 2e doesn't have infinite-Mana-engines - you get 1 Mana per day per dot of Hallow and that's about it. And you need most of that Mana for your OTHER Attainments.

>>50084249
>Obviously it is ST fiat and mother-may-I, but I have never heard of anyone thinking the combat applications are all you can do, especially considering all the different examples of people doing weird stuff with Vicissitude.
Yeah, I just remember looking through the Vicissitude rules for guidelines on how to do stuff at which dot levels and being surprised to find there's basically nothing there.

Maybe the pre-V20 versions of Vicissitude were more detailed, I dunno.

>>50084265
Has the definition of "reflexive" changed significantly or what?

>>50084285

Yeah there are no real hard rules beyond the basic system about Vicissitude.

>>50084159
Well that's the GM's fault. It seems obvious to me that a person who perfect gender change would look only vaguely familiar, or maybe like that person's siblings.

>>50084174
>Oh, and by the way, all the other splats have armour similar to it

That they have to buy as a discrete power, instead of getting for free, thus meaning mages are not remotely squishy by monster standards, just by like, sin eater standards.

>>50084288
Not sure what you mean by this. You have to have your armor up before being attacked. Your spellcasting is not faster than boolet.

>>50084288
>Mage 2e uses the term "reflexive action" literally dozens of times before it bothers to explain what that actually even is
Good going, White Wolf.

>>50084388
I don't think that's how reflexive actions work, bro.
>A reflexive action is the sort of thing you don’t even need to think about doing. Most rolls to resist supernatural powers are reflexive. You can take a reflexive action at any time, and it doesn’t take your turn in combat.

I'm not actually sure I remember how reflexive actions interact with surprise, though.

>>50084497
>Surprise
>Characters who don’t realize that they’re about to be on the receiving end of bloody violence have a chance to notice the ambush by rolling Wits + Composure, contested by the attacker’s Dexterity + Stealth. Any character who fails the roll cannot take an action in the first turn of combat, and can’t apply Defense for that turn. Determine Initiative in the second turn as normal.
>cannot take an action
That doesn't technically say "instant action", but reflexive responses to sudden surprises are a thing that makes logical sense, too. Hmm.

>>50084388
>You have to have your armor up before being attacked.

You most definitely don't.

>>50084526
You did in 1e when it was a spell, but not in 2e where it's a reflexively-activated Attainment.

Of course in 1e you could also have it up for 24 hours for the low low price of 1 Mana, which your Hallow would obviate if you cast it there.

(2e Hallows no longer seem to have the "reduces the Mana cost of any spell cast in it by 1" functionality).

>>50084388
No, you can apply Mage Armor in defence even to surprise attacks.

>>50084559
Smart.

>>50084143
>>>/trump/

Do people seriously think mages are weak?

>>50084196
Pssst. Guess what? Everyone knows about 4chan now. Everyone. You're not a super-speshul snowflake anymore. This is Occupy 4Chan, bitch. We are the 99%.

>>50084802
No, it's humble-bragging

>>50084196
The fact that the game begs you to fail rolls in exchange for XP?

>>50084232
There was an article called "After the Maelstrom" that dealt with MET campaigns set after the End of Empire. I think it was in Mind's Eye Journal #6. It's the only official word on what might have happened.

>>50084802
Mages are meant to be weaker than basically every other splat when caught unprepared.

This is... not necessarily the case (although many forms of Mage Armor don't actually give you armor, and there are ways for Vampires and Werewolves to get stupidly high attack dicepools).

>>50084802
No. They are strong as all fuck, but, they have weaknesses.

>>50084196
White Wolf has a decades-long history of hamfisted attempts at diverse, and attempting to be seen as being diverse as loudly and visibly as possible, even when almost all of their staff is white Americans (and the occasional white Canadian or white Brit).

It's not surprising their fanbase intersects heavily with tumblr.

>>50084833

That journal available anywhere or am I gonna have to library dive for it?

So my mage is in a solo chronicle and had to move in with a vampire and his sister, who is a changing breed and doesn't know it (you know how Nagah do). The vampire that my mage is living with is succumbing to the beast hardcore. He's started feeding on my mage, and my mage isn't really doing anything about it. It looks like it's going into a downward spiral because my mage is convinced that the abyss is related to the wyrm, and therefore doing selfish things with magic will shoot him in the foot and make him insane.

So how can this situation be resolved? As merit of being a Malkie, it seems like they don't even realize that they're doing the wrong thing and are blaming it entirely on "the beast" (which they don't believe in) while doing nothing to try and retain their humanity.

So how does one teach a vamp how to be a good person? I've been trying to get him to see himself as having a passage to Godhood, but it seems that the antedeluvian Malkavian doesn't even believe that he's elevated to godhood.

I'm really at my wit's end here.

The 'catch a mage unprepared' tactic forgets that it's trivially easy for mages to learn about shit that they shouldn't possibly know.

>>50084917
1. Is this an nwod/owod crossover? OMG TRIGGERED
2.If the vampire is in a live in homoerotic snack bar, how is he descending to the beast? Free blood on tap, social interaction and not having to leave the house makes it almost impossible to lose humanity. What fucked up things is he even being able to attempt?

>>50085000

People who talk about "catching a mage unprepared" means doing a Death Blow on him while he's asleep.

>>50084891
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/1526/Minds-Eye-Theatre-Journal-4?cPath=1_16&it=1

>>50085000
It is, however, very difficult for a Mage to learn about EVERYTHING they shouldn't possibly know. Mage is a game of asking the right questions, which is harder than it sounds.

>>50085014
You don't get to Gnosis 2 by sleeping

>>50085014
Yeah. Or when they are with Sleeper friends and family.

The Mysterium culture of wizard towers is a problem.

>>50085055

Or murderhobbo mages

>>50085014
I always believed it was all about suspicious gas leaks and bombs in the mailbox.

>>50084174

Using mana for health regeneration is inferior to Life magic and life magic is arguably the best healing ability in the game, The way I see it is that the system is encouraging you to use magic often and drive you to learn more magic.


Mana is only really an issue in the early game. Unless you're pulling off extreme magical shenanigans/crafting you don't need that much and if you do want to pull off some extreme act of magic it's more efficient to summon a supernal entity.

>>50085055
Although its more mechanically enforced for mages that's still a freebie for all supernatural types

>>50085001
He tries to settle every argument, no matter how petty, with disciplines and spends exuberant amounts of blood on the daily just to get a few extra bucks as an Uber driver. Basically, getting people to flag him down when they're nearby.

Also, what's nwod about what I posted? It's all owod.

>>50085014
With magic you literally never have to sleep.

>>50085149
>my mage is convinced that the abyss is related to the wyrm, and therefore doing selfish things with magic will shoot him in the foot and make him insane.

There IS an Abyss in owod, but it doesn't have anything to do with ignoble magic use...

And did you say its the Malkavian antediluvian working as an uber driver...?

>>50085158
Actually now that I think about it is there a reason why you can't cast a Life••• spell to replicate a long period of rest and regain as much willpower as you want?

>>50085124
>arguably the best healing ability in the game

Yeah, it is fantastic. It has the drawback of taking an action though.

>>50085203
no, no, the antedeluvian isn't an uber driver. Well, maybe he could be. My Mage is trying to avert Gehenna (I sense another trigger). The antedeluvian woke up, but the mage tried to convince him that living wasn't all that awful and that vampires could actually be good leaders if they tried to accept the Beast in a positive way. The advice he said was asking the afghani antedeluvian to walk across the world, something that the mage wish he could do, to feel more like God.

the neophyte is a fishmalk driving a leased Uber.

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>>50085149
>He tries to settle every argument, no matter how petty, with disciplines and spends exuberant amounts of blood on the daily just to get a few extra bucks as an Uber driver. Basically, getting people to flag him down when they're nearby.
That's, that's really petty, anon.

>>50085024

Nice, thank you!

>>50085359
So you are trying to make a retarded fishmalk not lose humanity? Ok. Good luck

>>50085470
it's easier than a perverted ventrue, right?

>>50085273

A common trick is to hang a healing spell with Time•• with a conditional trigger fate•• to activate if the target takes lethal damage in the last three health boxes.

>>50085635
Sure! Works great if you have the spell control to spare!

>>50085124
>Using mana for health regeneration is inferior to Life magic and life magic is arguably the best healing ability in the game
Sure, but the person I was responding to was specifically referring to the innate mana-based regeneration (which is deliberately godawful in order to make investing in Life more worthwhile).

That being said
>best healing ability in the game
>what is Gauru form

>>50085216
No, aside from the Reach cost.

>>50085635
>Common trick
>implying most Mages have Time 2, Fate 2, and Life 3
Works great for Acanthi with a Life-granting Legacy, I guess?

>>50079796
>Also, Singular They is more and more widely accepted, to the point that it was the Word of the Year.
Brilliant argument. Reminds me of such widely used words as "plutoed" and "bushlips".

>>50081761
>Please, tell me what *four* gender neutral pronouns there are. In the meantime, here's your
Not that anon, but as a person with english as a second language who attended an elementary school english class and paid attention, I would guess they are:
I, you, we, they

>>50084219
>Certainly it is safe to say a mage will have mage armor up whenever doing anything the least bit relevant.
I'm gonna make this new homebrew rule - it's impossible to attack mages unless they do anything the least bit relevant.

>>50085835
Their mage armor will still be up in any situation, however.

>>50085835
"bushlips"? The hell is that, some sort of slang for the labia?

>>50085862
Yes, but will it be the right armor?

>>50085433
You're welcome. Party on, anon.

>>50085968
Since you don't have to decide what Mage Armor it is until the attack is declared, probably.

>>50086075
Provided ofc that one doesn't team up on a Mage to trick them into switching to armor that won't work as well against a chosen attack.

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>>50085875
It's Word of the Year 1990, duh!
>similar to "bullshit" – stemming from President George H. W. Bush's 1988 "Read my lips: no new taxes" broken promise

>>50085862
No it won't. You can't activate mage armour unless you know about the attack and smart attacker will shoot you with sniper rifle in the back of your head - you will never know what hit you.

>>50079103
Honestly I have no problem with new pronouns as long as they fit the language they are for

Zh is not an English sound and makes for awkwardness in sentences

>>50086171
I tried to make that point and got called some sort of hate-filled anti-virtue signaller.

>>50086171
>Zh is not an English sound and makes for awkwardness in sentences

I thought zhe was supposed to be pronounced just like she?

>>50086159
Yes, by using more resources than it takes to stop any other playable supernatural it is possible to overcome the mage's free special abilities.

>>50086165
Fortunately its a reflexive action, meaning you no more need to be aware of an incoming attack to use Mage Armor than you do to roll to resist a vampire's mind control powers.

>>50086165
Defense from mage armor specifically applies even when surprised, so I assume that no, you don't need to be aware of the attack.

>>50086203
>Yes, by using more resources than it takes to stop any other playable supernatural it is possible to overcome the mage's free special abilities.

It isn't free though. It cuts deep into a Mage's precious mana/turn expenditure.

>>50086198
"zh" is pronounced like the S in "vision", or "Asian"

>>50086198
See? Awkwardness already and we haven't gotten into even saying it.

I thought it was pronounced z huh err

>>50086215
Free in the sense that they get it just for purchasing an ability that lets them actually do stuff.

But yes its part of what makes mages merely above average in terms of defense with zero prep time.

>>50086228
So it's sir with a heavier S? What the fuck kinda sense is that. I know English is a terrible language when spelling but come on, we don't need to make it worse

>>50086228
Yeah. Like She.

>>50086293
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SsH1YFydiM#t=17s

It's pronounced like this

>>50086203
>>50086212
Reflexive actions are actions that take no time. Contested actions are different, because they are automatic. You would know that you need to have armour on only if you used out of character knowledge.
Mage armour applies when surprised only if you have it already on.
>reflexive action — An instinctual task that takes no appre-
>ciable time, such as reacting to surprise or noticing something
>out of the corner of your eye. Performing a reflexive action
>does not prevent a character from performing another action
>within a turn.
The part about surprise is there because normally when surprised defense doesn't apply at all.
>Characters who don’t realize they’re about to be on the
>receiving end of bloody violence have a chance to notice the
>ambush by rolling Wits + Composure, contested by the attacker’s
>Dexterity + Stealth. Any character who fails the roll cannot take
>an action in the first turn of combat, and can’t apply Defense
>for that turn. Determine Initiative in the second turn as normal.

>>50086333
Now I'm confused and I'm legit trying to figure out what the fuck

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What's the best part of playing a Ghoul?

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>>50086427
>Ghoul: There are worse things out tonight than vampires.

>Random NPC: Like what?

>Ghoul: Like me.

>>50084562
No you can't. Reflexive actions are, contrary to their namesake, not always actually done unconsciously. Reflexive magic requires conscious effort and though, pretty much any reflexive ability requires you to be aware that you need to use it to use it, and being surprised negates that knowledge.

>>50086427
Being a ghoul without a regnant and getting vitae from some poor schmuck you're hiding in your basement.
>>50086453
Speaking of Blade, are there rules other than those in Wicked Dead for dhampir and the like?

>>50086493
Actually, it explicitly says you can.

>>50086379
Just say "jer" and that's it

>>50086379
If you took high school French, it's like the j in "je m'appelle"

>>50086453
Ghouls aren't really that strong, though.

>>50086536
This is the type of ghoul that gets hunted down.

>>50086550
Where does it explicitly say so?

>>50078259
>>50078386
>>50080197
Blood doesn't equal vitae. You have to drink a bunch of blood to get the point of it, but they specifically point out how the vampiric body does something magic to it. A single drop can be a 'point' of vitae. I also however don't think you can just drop three vitae into a drink for instant vinculum, unless you have that one coil. Gotta do it one bit at a time.

>>50086591
They can't hunt you down if they don't know about you.

>>50086669
It's not a way of being a ghoul. It's something you can do. What's nice about playing a ghoul?

>>50086745
When your vampire waifu tells you that you're a good boy

>>50086745
Being immortal as long as you don't piss of your regnant and they don't get involved on the losing side of vampire politics, I guess? Having a few cool powers to go with it?

>>50084091
The former is indeed Magical Realm as a layman would understand. I.E. A setting made purely to indulge a rather fringe fetish to the detriment of the player base. But the latter is just fetish as normfags understand it. 4chan's has a tendency to over hype for narrative story arcs

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>>50085124
People always pull, pic related, when their initial statement gets prove hyperbolic

>>50086870
Compared to humans, they get quite a few really powerful abilities. They can get the full run of disciplines with the caveat that they've got less vitae to spend on em and have to get it from a vampire.

>>50086322
That is not the same phoneme at all.

>>50086322
How the fuck do you pronounce vision and Asian?

>>50087019
I dunno. Their blood pool is fairly limited. A basic human can get a lot of advantages without being a blood addict (Benedections, Elixirs and the like).

>>50087100
Vi-shin and Ayy-sheen apparently

http://theonyxpath.com/release-roundup-october-2016/

not a single CofD product released this month, just a WtA book and a VtM fiction anthology. how are Onyx Path still in business?

>>50087158
They get paid to be quiet

>>50083788
Because the potential for charisma min-maxers to essentially get what they want via seduction and sex change is pretty high as far as I can tell.

>>50085047
indeed quite the opposite actually. While the rest of the world lies in a uh umm slumber. these few have uh ummm Aroused themselves into action, and are attempting to uh ummm, (damn I know there is a word I'm just not getting) Alert and excite the uhhh ummmmm bedtime masses!

>>50083994
Ah I see why they changed it then.

>>50083566
It has nothing to do with what's "jarring" in a linguistic sens, and you know it.

>>50083732
But it's never going to be as mechanically good as being effected by Taurobolium without being a Magna Mater Ghoul, since regular Ghouls who've taken the Taurobolium bath. Having 10-Again will always be better than not, and I don't think opponents having -1 Composure is that useful.
Also I can't even figure out what's going on with that chart.

>>50083762
A lot of people have a lot of fetishes. They're a group of vampires based on a fertility cult. Fertility cults aren't just some made up thing for fiction, you know.

>>50083788
>>50083926
>>50083950
>>50084021
>>50084023
>>50084116
>>50084159
>>50084331
As other people have said, it's basically because it's a unique effect that is narratively and in-setting super special. It's really nothing other than that. A lot of games seem to have understood that "you live forever" shouldn't be costed high, but long term magical changes that have no narrative effect are still given "this is amazing" costs without "this is amazing" mechanical effects. I mean, it makes sense in Shadowrun, where they basically just give a cost to every stupid thing, though it is weird that it takes a fucking month of living in a bath when you can get cybergenitalia in 20 minutes.
Frankly most of the Bloodline stuff in 1e was bad, and I say this as someone who thinks that Bloodlines are the best example of how to do Z-splats.
Most special Disciplines are wonky and badly written, and most Bloodline Devotions are wonky, badly written, expensive as fuck, and you can't start with them. 2e's Bloodlines handles them so much better and I love it. It makes Vampire the game that's easiest to write a Z-splat for.

>>50083985
>How do ghoul families work, anyway? Is that a good reason to use the Magna Mater Ghouls?
No. Ghouls can learn or benefit from Taurobolium without it.

>>50087221
Ah, so they find out what sexuality their victim is and change their shape to conform to that? Is there a sexuality modifier?

I'm going to try to be a ghoul, because I don't know much of the setting details and it's better to have it explained to me in-game. Second, I like playing squishy, underpowered characters, and a ghoul seems to fit the bill, no?

>>50087261
>It has nothing to do with what's "jarring" in a linguistic sens, and you know it.
But it does though? The reason the word sounds weird and forced is because it deliberately uses phonemes that aren't naturally used that way in English, so the reader trips over them every time they show up.

Please stop trying to attribute motivations to me that aren't my actual motivations. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a bigot.

>>50086608
Under the main header of Mage Armor.

>>50087111
Yeah.

>>50087158
By selling oWoD stuff.

>>50087261
>But it's never going to be as mechanically good as being effected by Taurobolium without being a Magna Mater Ghoul, since regular Ghouls who've taken the Taurobolium bath. Having 10-Again will always be better than not, and I don't think opponents having -1 Composure is that useful.
>Also I can't even figure out what's going on with that chart.
There are two bars for each number of dice thrown. Each of the ones on the right are the No Ten-again, Ones subtract. The ones on the left are normal. I changed the colors on the former so that instead of showing one success, it shows two, to account for the malus to Composure, which boosts the number of successes over the enemy.

>>50080853
Thus, when throwing one die, it's 30% chance for the Matre ghoul to get two successes, as opposed to the normal ghoul's 30% for one success.
At four or five dice, the Madre ghoul has a 20-15% better chance of getting two or more successes than the normal ghoul.

Madre becomes indisputably worse than the normal ghoul at 7 or 8 dice.

>>50086643
metaphysics = human is worth 10 blood points
human body has 5 liters of blood. 1 blood point is equal to 5/10 liters.

It may not be exact but that point is thusly: The volume of a single point of vitea is not a trivial amount. I would be surprised if an ST let one drop count as a full point, considering blood is a major motif of the game.

>>50087261
>>How do ghoul families work, anyway? Is that a good reason to use the Magna Mater Ghouls?
>No. Ghouls can learn or benefit from Taurobolium without it.
They don't get the guaranteed fertility, though.

>>50087158

Being a consistent top seller in the only place you can buy their PDFs probably helps.

>>50087383
No it doesn't. I just looked in the rules. You apply defence from armour if you have it activated, it doesn't grant some miraculous ability to activate armour whenever someone even thinks about attacking you. I already explained it in >>50086334

>>50086536
Mirrors has some rules in the Fantasy section. OWOD has the Time of the Thin Blood.

>>50087615
I'll check them out, thanks.

>>50084196
>2016
>Not remembering when 4chan was making "current year" arguments
>ISHYGDDT
I also fail to see how "this already is or should be acceptable due to the knowledge that we currently have" is somehow a bad argument.

>>50084249
There's also a transgender Tzimisce canon character in Sascha Vykos.

>>50084288
>>50084265
>>50084388
>>50084497
>>50084518
>>50084562
>>50084526
>>50084559
A Reflexive action still requires you to know about what you're doing, even if it doesn't take conscious thought. You can harden your skin into dermal plating as the bullet comes at you, but you can't do so when you're shot in the back of the head.

>>50084367
Other than maybe Changelings, I can't think of a monster that's innately as squishy as mages.

>>50084802
Mages are potentially the most capable splat.
But "potentially" doesn't translate to "in actuality". Many of their main strengths aren't even combatitive.

>>50084829
>Calling that a tumblr mechanic
"Bribe the players to do things that make the narrative more interesting" has been in games for decades. In fact, when did Savage Worlds come out? Deadlands is from the 80s. I'm pretty sure bribing players to fail is older than the internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H20hUzYLyFU

Stat "The Crunchie"

>>50087685
Sascha Vykos is a... really unfortunate choice for a flagship trans character.

>>50087685
>I also fail to see how "this already is or should be acceptable due to the knowledge that we currently have" is somehow a bad argument

Because it's whiggism, and can easily be flipped around

>it's 2016 and you're still letting mentally Ill people butcher themselves? Wow

>>50086379
>>50086293
>>50086228
>>50086198
>>50086171
>>50087400
Zh is a phoneme in the English language, how is this hard... It really is pronounced like Zhao there. And Vision. Here:
https://youtu.be/kPLuCRnDNHM
It's [ʒ]e

>>50086536
No, but we're supposed to be getting a Half-Damned splat for CofD eventually, aren't we? I mean, we're still waiting on Secrets of the Covenants and A Thousand Years of Night, but eventually...
Or was that oWoD?

I've been thinking of how to handle Dhampir in 2e, since I don't like the way Wicked Dead does them. It's interesting, but could probably be done better than being a lure for being bitten.

>>50087158
Well Onyx Path wrote those oWoD products, so... >>50087400

>>50087750

Sascha's a really bad character in general. Cheesy enough to still be fun in some cases but absolutely terrible otherwise. As actual representation, it's kind of a train wreck, even with the context of the times.

>>50087951
You'll note how that says "-sion endings"? It's used for suffixes. It doesn't start words in English. Choosing to start your pronoun with that is going to make it sound inherently unnatural and clunky.

If we were talking Chinese or something, sure, zhe would be a perfectly good word in Mandarin, but in English?

>>50081761
He, they, them, the

>>50087382
You know damned well they were talking about "the existence of a nonbinary person" as being jarring, not their use of zhe. Also as I just said, it is an English phoneme.

>>50087221
>>50087319
Man, it's easier to just fucking mind control someone.
>Is there a sexuality modifier?
Could be. It's not unreasonable to say that there's a few extra Doors for seducing someone not your sexuality, or even lowered impression for that. Though I wouldn't say it's impossible. Really the power is just costed so high because it's a narratively impressive power, so it's meant to be the capstone. But unfortunately "narratively impressive" and "useful and meaningful within the game" aren't the same.
Also, playing a ghoul can be fun, especially in 2e where the Disciplines aren't ridiculously overcosted.

>>50087436
-1 Composure isn't going to have that dramatic an effect. It's not even half a success of difference, I don't think. The rule of thumb is three dice to a success. -1 is underwhelming on it's own. Also, *especially* with Taurobolium, a character is going to be throwing more than 7 dice. I mean, 7 dice is basically the default for a social character with 3 in a Skill and Attribute and a specialty. Then you've got Striking Looks, and Taurobolium's effects and you're more likely to have 12 dice.

>>50087491
If you absolutely need your ghoul to knock someone up, go for it. Otherwise it's not that useful.

>>50087750
>>50087969
They're aware. I hear they tried to be more respectful in V20, and made it explicit that Sascha is trans. I haven't actually read any of it, though, just an article about how they were trying to make DAV20 less cringey in regards to Malkavians/Tzimisce/KotEK.

>>50087841
That only works if you're not knowledgable or informed on the subject. Sure, it's "mentally ill people butchering themselves" if you know nothing about mental health, the stats for treatment of gender dysphoria, the effectiveness of transitioning, or even enough to realize that surgery and "butchery" are not the same. (Though I do always wonder if butchers feel annoyed that their skilled craft is associated with sloppy unskilled carnage).

>"It's the year 2016 and with all we know about transgender people as well as the ease of finding that information, there are still those who have such backwards and uninformed views?"
But also I meant 4chan's kneejerk hate for "current year" arguments when they were making them just a few years ago. The anti-current-year argument in a nutshell, not so much the specific use of it.

>>50088107
Actually I'm pretty sure there are some words that do start with it, and English is after all the ruffian of languages, riffling through pockets for spare vocabulary.
Regardless, your argument was "it's not a phoneme that exists in English", and it clearly does.

>>50088140
"they" and "them" are the same pronoun. He isn't gender neutral. The isn't even a pronoun, it's an article.

>>50088227
He is gender neutral in the english language. It is most commonly used for Masculine individuals but it is neutral. Haven't your english classes been teaching you anything.

And Thee, thine. I worry about our schools that you don't know this stuff. Didn't they have you reading The Bard? Or did they have you reading modern english translations so the beauty of the language was lost?

>>50079345
cool story no one fucking cares.

>>50088150
>-1 Composure isn't going to have that dramatic an effect. It's not even half a success of difference, I don't think. The rule of thumb is three dice to a success. -1 is underwhelming on it's own. Also, *especially* with Taurobolium, a character is going to be throwing more than 7 dice. I mean, 7 dice is basically the default for a social character with 3 in a Skill and Attribute and a specialty. Then you've got Striking Looks, and Taurobolium's effects and you're more likely to have 12 dice.
Very good points, thank you. Welp, seems Matre Ghouls are useless. (Unless for some reason you feel like using a trash ghoul as a debuffer.)

>>50088382
You obviously cared enough to reply 15 fucking hours after that idiot.

Let it go.

>>50087439
Thats VtM, in VtR it works differently. Try reading rules.

>>50088150
You are one of those people who think that you can use Doors system to make NPC do literally anything? Wew.

>>50088227
>I haven't actually read any of it, though, just an article about how they were trying to make DAV20 less cringey in regards to Malkavians/Tzimisce/KotEK.

Have you tried not worrying about stupid shit that doesn't matter.

What Merits, Gear and Armor do you want in order to stat a 'Run the fuck away from combat' character?
Hard mode: No Fleet of Foot, Parkour.

>>50088298
It isn't gender neutral and arguments that it is amount to "male is the default", which isn't even true statistically.

>>50088466
Well, you *could* make the argument that having a small cadre of them around you will compound the ability. I mean, -1 isn't much, but -3 can shut down most characters, especially since rolling on the defense is always going to be worse.

>>50088535
I didn't say you could use Doors to do literally anything. I said that I wouldn't say that making someone have sex with you even though they're not attracted to your gender [especially when you have androgynous demigod beauty] is something that's impossible.

>>50088627
Clearly you haven't if you're getting triggered by the notion that other people don't want to be assholes.
Perhaps you might try realizing that things matter to different people.

>>50088848
Presence and Persuasion.

>>50089040
>Well, you *could* make the argument that having a small cadre of them around you will compound the ability. I mean, -1 isn't much, but -3 can shut down most characters, especially since rolling on the defense is always going to be worse.
I'm very new, mind explaining what you mean by 'rolling on the defense is always going to be worse'?
So yeah, that sounds like a hell of a loophole. Wonder if it's supported in the text...

As for Presence and Persuasion instead of running the fuck away, this is my backup plan for when those don't work.

>>50089147
>I'm very new, mind explaining what you mean by 'rolling on the defense is always going to be worse'?
>average defense in white room scenarios is 3-4
>roll for defense is 2x defense, successes subtract successes from attack roll
What's the chance of getting 3 or more successes?

>>50088535
Hey man, you're the one trying to roofie people with a drop of blood not me

>>50087439
They use the drop of blood thing within setting fiction and I think it might even be an example of how to goad people into vinculum. It isn't just mass of blood going on there.

>>50087439
>metaphysics = human is worth 10 blood points
No it isn't.

>drink a whole human in vtm
>everyone pretends to not notice you're a gallon of fluid larger
>vampires walk around with huge wobbly asses sloshing full of vitae

>>50089431
Oh brilliant debate tactic. I slay by your words, not since I had left kindergartner have I seen such use of clever word play and barbed language.

>>50089529
It wasn't a debate tactic, it was a statement of fact. Vitae in VtR is one per level of lethal damage inflicted on a dude during the bite, humans don't have a set amount.

Well, in today's Forsaken game the pack's Rahu agreed to race a Wounded canidrome spirit's horrible twisted greyhound-children to win information from the spirit about the prize that all the Macau werewolves want from it. If he loses, he's bet one of his eyes. The spirit has made it clear that the eye won't just grow straight back again but will be... gone... for a while.

The race will be next session; the Rahu plans to get Predator's Matchless Pursuit beforehand, which he's gonna need. The Wounded canidrome sure as fuck isn't going to play fair, after all.

The wrinkle is that I don't think the pack have figured out that it's Wounded yet, and they sure as fuck haven't realised that its 'sponsor' is an Apollonian.

Macau is proving a lot of fun as a temporary setting for the pack to visit while away from Hong Kong.

>>50089296
So, Composure is three-four, -3, 0-1. Double that is going to be the defense roll, 0-2. That means the debuffer ghouls just need to roll over that?

Are the rites from Forsaken 1st edition compatible with 2nd?

>>50089566
then say that. instead doing the NO YOU"RE NOT/ YES YOU ARE, preschool argument. If you don't back your arguments you'll never get far Anon

>>50089594
No. I mean, some of them you can wrangle into a shape that works for 2nd, but by default, no.

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375KB, 1920x1080px

Hey DaveB, if you're around (by some freak chance), does the artificial removal of memories of the Supernal before Dissonance sets in at the end of the scene save the Sleeper from Quiescence?

Say perhaps using Memory Hole (though it would return at the end of that spell) to temporarily save the Sleeper from the trauma of Quiescence, while you arranged for a more permanent Mind Wipe?

I could see that as a very useful tool in the arnsel of many a Mage, especially those of the Guardians of the Veil.

>>50089147
>I'm very new, mind explaining what you mean by 'rolling on the defense is always going to be worse'?
Resolve+Composure contested by Presence+Persuasion+[1 from Specialty]+[2 from Striking Looks]+"Equipment"

The Defense rolls a lot less dice. This is less of a problem in 2e with Clash of Wills, but was a big issue in 1e. You also had Resistance, which was often something like Attribute+Skill+[Power Rank]-3.

>Wonder if it's supported in the text...
No, but you could probably argue that a lot of Taurobolium Ghouls would compound each other's effect. I can't remember whether or not 1e had things cap out at -5/+5.

>>50089431
>>50089529
>>50089566
>>50089601
To clarify here: In VtR humans have vitae equal to their unmodified Health. So if you have 7 health boxes, you have 7 vitae.

>>50089296
>>50089578
It's not "2x defense", that's only for Dodging. Most Contested rolls involving Composure will be either Wits+Composure (for noticing things) or Resolve+Composure (for resisting mental effects).

>>50089735
Thanks.

>>50089040
Except any Professor of the english language will tell you the same as I am, He is by default neutral. You have just attached the concept of it being masculine into your gender perceptions. You are actually misgendering He.

Also all romance languages use masculine pronouns for gender neutrality.

>>50089999
>Also all romance languages use masculine pronouns for gender neutrality.
Yup. The first time I encountereed the concept was learning plural pronouns in elementary school French, where "Ils" is for men or mixed groups, while "Elles" is for women only. This was presented by my (female) French teacher as "Boys have to share, but girls get their own term". The "male" term having to pull double-duty as the male term and the neutral term could be seen as an advantage for males or as an advantage for females. "Male is the default, females are 'Other'" is only one perspective; it's not an inherent, objective truth or the only logical conclusion.

Is there any way to speed up healing on resistant damage as a Mage?

>>50089999
>>50090103
This is not even remotely true. Male as default masculine pronoun hasn't been true in English for quite some time, and yes, it is rather sexist. He is used as default when people make assumptions.

>>50090197
Speed up your healing generally. There are powers that cut healing times.

>>50090197
on resistant damage? No. That's the whole point of resistant damage.

I suppose you could get around it by using non-supernal/mage based sources of healing, like drinking vitae from a vampire (enjoy the resulting blood bond).

>>50090197
The same way normies do. Resistance damage is simply a way to stop mages from double dipping into themselves. Ballls Deep. So yeah Not really

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50KB, 407x273px

>>50090197
Noooope.

>>50090340
Oh. well shit.

>>50090340
>Noooope.

What about spirit influence? Can a spirit of healing speed up the process?

>>50090919
Page says only recovery rates specified on the table work.
I like to think that means what it says

What would the effects of Pleasing Aura have on a mortal?

>>50090919
a spirit of time probably could

>>50089577
>If he loses, he's bet one of his eyes. The spirit has made it clear that the eye won't just grow straight back again but will be... gone... for a while.
Sorry for the guyguy but I really hope he loses. Rahu is cool, I like how he refers to himself as rahu but it will be cool to see. I thought Wang Lee would have been the fastest in the pack, is Lucky Rat?

>>50091083
Yeah, turns out Lucky Rat is faster just due to higher physical stats, I think - Lee has Fleet of Foot but it's not enough to match Rat's Strength. Also, Rat has the Strength Gift and so can get Unmatched Pursuit if he can just sort a dot of Glory somehow in the next 18 hours before he's agreed to race.

>>50091306
Are the records of games you run accessible somewhere on the net?

>>50091306
I -get- that str makes you faster but because of dnd I always think dex does.
>get Glory before winning the race
That would be interesting.
>>50091471
There's an Eater of Names thread on the OPForums with links.

>>50090340
Would mundane healing work?

>>50091509
Ah, cool. Thanks.

>>50091471
Yeah, I've got a thread on the Forsaken forum on OPP with links. I'll be putting up today's podcast in a bit, if the website co-operates.

However, been a bit off my GMing game these last few months as we've had stops and starts in the game and some heavy real-life shit kicking me in the nuts, so I can't guarantee consistent quality.

For ex, there was a point in today's game where I forgot about a plot element til halfway through a conversation with a particular relevant NPC, then had to kinda realign where the scene was going to take account of the thing I had nearly missed due to my derpiness.

>>50091509
>That would be interesting.
Well, Rat has the deed needed to get Glory 1 - the open challenge and defeat of the Rotting Heart. The bigger problem is getting a Lune to come and mark him while in Macau and in that timeslot. The Shadow of Macau is a shithole and a war zone both together.

>>50091471
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?786265-Werewolf-the-Forsaken-The-Eater-of-Names

>>50091471
Uh, I'm apparently also too spaced out to remember to put the link to the thread in, sorry.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/925413-w-tf-actual-play-the-eater-of-names

Chris, what's the next release scheduled for Forsaken?

>>50091793

Is there even any new Forsaken books on the docket? The Current Projects page doesn't seem to have anything for it and it seems up to date.

>>50091765
>the open challenge and defeat of the Rotting Heart.
I'm only 1hour into session 6 so haven't gotten to that yet. Good job on rat encounter, very freaky.

>>50091909
We already got the Werewolf supplement.

>>50091793
No idea, you'd have to ask Stew.

>>50092019
Could you ask him for us/

>>50092019

Are YOU currently writing for any Forsaken books?

>>50092073
Not that guy but no, I'm not.

>>50091941
>life as uratha
>go to dojo train the new pack werewolf how to defend themselves
>get run over by demonic train

>>50092935
It's the Rotting Heart. Thats a coincidence I thought I had been spoiled.

Right, posted up session 2 of Empty Hearts, now I'm going to go to bed.

>>50093351