Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>>50039612
>Regardless, the prince of Stromgarde is dead anyway circa the DK campaign.
every single remnant of Stromgarde except for Danath Trollbane is dead now. I really hope all the dickery the EB pulled off against Sylvanas gets brought up later

>>50039593
>did everything wrong

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>Horde Dindu Nuffin

I wonder how many Horde defenders non-ironically support Dindu Lives Matter. And are otherwise SJWs.

>>50040539
>/pol/tards play wow

makes sense

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>>50040669
hey, the game is dumbed down and requires mommy's credit card. perfect for your average /pol/yp

>>50040539
> Varian starts a war because he is a dick
> Horde choose a warlike warchief to fight against Humans because the old pussyfist warchief is becoming Jesus now
> OMG the Horde is killing people

The conflicts in vanilla made sense

Warsong gulch: Warsong are harvesting trees and Silverwing sentinals try to distrupt them and kill all orcs

Arathi basin: two factions that both are fighting for the resources in the zone (Arathi humans vs forsaken)

Alterac Valley: Frostwolves fighting for their new home, Stormpikes are there to plunder the riches underground

Honestly all old Battlegrounds are more like if two noble houses enganged in conflict meanwhile the larger nations are at peace and content with letting these noble houses duke it out with their own money. (Player characters are hired mercs)

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>>50042107
>Blatantly ignoring the writers fiat and asspulls required for the Horde to not get its shit pushed in.

You're a thread late, Kosak.

>>50042243
Actually... I think this view that the Alliance was far more stronger than the Horde completely wrong... Sure, Orcs and Forsaken were not exactly a prime example of architeture and infrastructure at all... But Forsakens almost not have vital points and Orcs have almost twice the strenght of a human. Taurens could be far strong and Trolls are still better than your average human being.

Also, Vanilla Alliance was pretty fucked up too with problems right on their backyard. Defias on Westfall, Redrige and Duskwood pretty fucked up too. Vanilla was more realistic... If part of your country is violent and poor you cant solve this easily snaping fingers.

Yeah, most of all this was Onyxia doing... But it was not likely all of this could be fixed easily when Varian return.... right? At least it should not be.

Then on Cataclysm they decided to completely change this view... Actually, it was on wrath... Players saw Warsong offensive tower, notice that this shit was far more cool than their slum capital city and if Garrosh could built that shit on few months then both factions could do the shit they want and asspull a infra-structure that was non-existent a expac ago.

They notice that it was strange to have factions with all that war power having problems on Redrige or with Quillboards...

>>50042636
Holy fuck, lay off the ellipsis.

The Horde simply doesn't have the numbers, or the established supply hubs. Cata 'fixed' this by magic-ing entire armies and navies plus the supplies to maintain them out of nowhere.

>Then on Cataclysm they decided to completely change this view... Actually, it was on wrath...

No, that was the D-team developers who took over post-Ulduar when the A-Team moved on to Project Titan. Hence the gigantic narrative shift to WC1&2 that pissed off most of the Horde players.

>They notice that it was strange to have factions with all that war power having problems on Redrige or with Quillboards...

No, that's called old zones not being updated.

>>50042636

Wars are not won by honor duels. Alliance had logistics, supplies, ports, navies, an air force, most of the NGOs and religions were alliance based, the dragons, the ancients and the likes preferred them, they had better magic, better technology, higher population, a factory city, far more experienced leaders, a prophet literally able to see the future, a spaceship and so on. Also a fucking big-G God.

>>50042180
Pretty much. Vanilla BGs all follow the pattern of "Alliance/Horde-affiliated organization is having a beef with an organisation of the other faction, hires mercenaries to wreck the other guy's stuff".
Silverwing Sentinels hire mercenaries to wreck the Warsong lumber mill, and the Warsong hire mercenaries to defend it and wreck the Silverwing fortress. Defilers and League of Arathor hire mercenaries to claim Arathi Basing for them. Frostwolves and Stormpike dwarves hire mercenaries to kill the other side's lead (this is probably the closest to a proper Alliance vs Horde war in vanilla, but even that is more of a proxy war, since it's not between Red and Blue proper, but two small subfactions fighting over one area).

People who push faction war storyline even when it makes no sense in order to justify pvp seems to always forget that the golden age of WoW pvp (at leats world pvp) happened while the Horde and Alliance were canonically engaged in a cold war, rather than an all-out war (and this also works a lot better story-wise, since you can never really deliver on the "total war" plotline because neighter side can truly lose or suffer major defeats; just see how unsatisfyingly the Siege of Orgrimmar ended due to them having to maintain the status quo).

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>>50043035
>Frostwolves and Stormpike dwarves hire mercenaries to kill the other side's lead
Speaking of, what was up with that? I mean, Drek'thar was in Kalimdor during the founding of Orgrimmar, and I don't see why him or the rest of the Frostwolves wouldn't stay with Thrall. Why the fuck were they suddenly back in Alterac?

>>50043176
They probably also acted as the orc forces backing up Forsaken.

>>50043176

I believe the idea is that during the years between Warcraft 1 and 3, after the Frostwolves left the Horde because Durotan was killed, Alterac is where they wandered to because it reminded them of home, so they settled it and lived there, claiming it as a new homeland for themselves on the reasonable assumption that it was free game because the Kingdom that previously inhabited it was never coming back, and they were never going to be able to go back to Draenor.

>>50043035
The whole SOO ending was such bullshit. Horde and Alliance have been at all-out war through the entire expansion (previous expansion, too), and now the Alliance is besieging the Horde's capital, a significant amount of Horde's population ahs turned against their warcheif for being an orc-nazi, and said warchief is defeated by a bunch of murderhoboes. Essentially, Alliance just won the war. So what do they do? Pack up their stuff, leave, and tell the next warchief not to screw up so badly. And then they're back to being at war two expansions later.

It'd be like if after Hitler died, the allied forces would immediately leave from Germany with nothing more than warning Dönitz not to screw up. No war crime tribunals, no dismantling the nazi military, hell, technically the nazis themselves are still in charge.
And sure, Döniz was by all accounts a reasonable man and could probably be relied on to not do anything too stupid (the first thing he did when he was made führer was negociate a ceasefire with the wester allies to give him enough time to organize the evacuation of civilians from the area of German cut off from the rest by the soviets, and once that was done issued immediate surrender of all his forces), but that'd still be an incredubly stupid thing to do, especially when two expansions later Döniz gets stabbed to death by a demon and names Zombie-Göbbels his successor (because...I don't know, a submarine told him or something), and then nazis and the alliance go right back to war because Werewolf-Churchill thinks nazis abandoned them while fighting demons and got FDR killed, and Zombie-Göbbels sinks the Iowa and tries enslaving the valkyria, and this whole analogy is falling apart, isn't it?

>>50043404
>because...I don't know, a submarine told him or something

Pure blizz writing here....

>...and this whole analogy is falling apart, isn't it?

Nah, its on pair with warcraft lore so far...

Back them I really loved warcraft lore because it was incredibly well done, its was not like a Final Fantasy bullshit game were nations do not have any past, culture trendings, notable heroes or relevant story... But now it is just pure bullshit.

SoO was trying to have a total war then snapping back to the status quo too because cant "be unfair" to the horde. It was the height of retardation, why have a fucking faction war storyline, culminating in the siege of a capital if nothing is going to come of it? The stupid War Crimes book was just the cherry on the shit sundae. It makes my boil thinking about it to this day.

>>50043404

I mean, to be fair Vol'jin was a witch doctor of extraordinary power and skill. If DA SPIRITS tell him something he's not gonna take it likely. And for us as the players at least, we know that Sylvanas took a huge risk using her Extra Lives to save the Horde's leadership from mass-murder. She didn't have to help them, she could have cut and run. Instead she took the chance that she could have been condemned to hell for all eternity because all her Zombie Valakryies got killed in the rescue. That's a good sign, and a good reason for DA SPIRITS to tell Vol'jin she's worthy of being trusted to fix this shit.

>>50043853

DA SPIRITS is a bullshit copout on par with the jedi prophecy about anakin bringing balance to the force

its just there to enable a completely retarded plot

>>50043889

It's probably going to pan out with her being Warchief putting her in a position to finally make her big heroic sacrifice and earn redemption through death.

At least I fucking hope so because boy howdy am I tired of her.

>>50043921
I doubt Horde is going to get a new Warchief yet again so soon. Someone's bound to whine about it.

>>50043889

Its a plot device, a literal deus ex machina even, but its not bullshit when its immediately preceded by a moment that proves a significant character change to the person in question. The point is to provide a reasonable justification that the other leaders will accept for Sylvie to be put in charge. She saved all their lives, something they wouldn't have expected. She got the endorsement of the leader they all loved and who saved their civilization from ruin, and he gave it to her because he communed with the spirits. What the spirits told him was reasonable and not something to be doubted or dismissed BECAUSE she'd just done something unlikely, selfless and important.

It is also a bullshit copout to enable a retarded plot when Ghost Obi-Wan tells Luke where to find Yoda? No, because the preceding events show us that Luke needs more training, his previous victories weren't good enough to save the galaxy, and he needs that deus ex machina plot device to direct him to the next step of his journey. The context justifies it.

>>50043977

You keep using words you dont really understand.

>>50043955

Fuck, you're right. They probably wouldn't want to make the position even more of a revolving door death sentence than it already is.

>>50043977
Sylvanas doesn't really seem to ahve any character change, though. During the Broken Shore events and the opeing cinematic, it seems she might have, but in Legion she's right back to deploying the plague, trying to enslave the leader of the val'kyr, and generally being a colossal asshole.

>>50044039

You have a point. On the one hand, its not like she's not doing what she's supposed to be doing. She calls out the Horde military, spearheaded by her personal forces, to support the PC in his mission to get the Aegis. She's not out looking to wage war on the Alliance, she's not trying to get the treasure for herself or manipulate the situation to her own advantage. That's a big step for her compared to the past.

But she does still have her ulterior motives going on under the surface, and we the player do not get to be privy to them. We are trusted enough to be told flat out she HAS those motives, and we see bits and pieces of her plan along the way so we can figure out what she's doing, but she doesn't take the player into her confidence and explain why we should trust her, she just says that we should and that what she's up to isn't for her, but for the Forsaken as a species and the Horde as a whole. We have to take it on faith.

The Player is ostensibly a high-ranking Horde general, a hero known across the land, a personal confidant and close advisor to three previous Warchiefs (and Saurfang even!). We of all people should be telling her "Vol'jin might have given you the torch, but I have no reason to trust you and I have the pull to handle you. Spill or I'm not helping."

I think the story would have worked perfectly if that moment had been there. Absent it, yeah, she comes across as having not really changed, which undercuts the narrative.

>>50044156

Maybe the PC is more inteligent than that.

Sylvanas dont take this kind of thing lightly..... the last one who tried to dance on his own song was Koltira, we all know how it ends...and he was not even refusing to fight.

PC are indeed a special snowflake but they still cant mess with faction leaders without a raid to support.

>>50043404
>especially when two expansions later Döniz gets stabbed to death by a demon and names Zombie-Göbbels his successor (because...I don't know, a submarine told him or something), and then nazis and the alliance go right back to war because Werewolf-Churchill thinks nazis abandoned them while fighting demons and got FDR killed, and Zombie-Göbbels sinks the Iowa and tries enslaving the valkyria,
I'd play this Wolfenstein game

>>50043691
>50043691
>>50039593
This is pretty much half the reason I quit wow, and warcraft in general. They went from semi serious fantasy to full retarded. I used to want to run a warcraft campaign, but I'd have to scorched earth all the lore since warcraft 3 frozen throne to be happy. (and start at the beginning of vanilla wow).

>>50042636

None of that mattered because until the Goblins rejoined the Alliance, they could have gone Anglo-Zulu War on them and used their technological advantage to wrest supremacy, but then they had to wait and do questionable things like NOT upgrade their legions of obsolete footmen into riflemen wheres riflemen now outpace them in any meaningful way and their steel/mithril/thorium armor is as good as tissue paper in the face of Saronite and whatever leet new spess metal is in vogue at the moment, lost their sole nuclear reactor and any ability to potentially develop the A-bomb, completely neglected to upgrade their infrastructure to make use of technological innovations like the steam engine (railroads are HUGE game changers when it comes to affordable shipping), and have been stagnating while the Horde has made great leaps in catching up and is now fielding early mechanized formations and making use of objects like radios and telecommunications that makes their standing forces superior not only physically, but tactically as well.

>>50045816

Rejoined the Horde*. Rejoined the Horde in an alliance.

>>50045816
So world of warcraft has gone full fantasypunk now..

>>50045916
it has been since vanilla, the Horde just finally caught up to the Alliance

>>50046281
I was always under the impression that most technology was viewed as gimmicky because magic could do much of the same stuff.

>>50046330
it didn't stop the dwarves from building steam engines, tanks and guns

>>50040669
>>50040751

Go chimpout with Nigger Lives Matter.

>>50043404

That requires the Horde losing stuff that actually matters and we can't have that.

>>50043921

>pretending that they'd kill off Sylvanas and not bring her back anyway

>>50044039

>Sylvanas is a trash

Of course she is. She's another Stronk Female Character for unattractive females and white knights to worship.

>>50045816

>actually taking Warcraft technology seriously

>>50043955
Obvious solution: Kill her off, bring back Vol'jin because he was only pretending to be dead

>>50047779
Go back to Draenor and get AU Grom to lead the MU Horde.

>>50046472
>>Sylvanas is a trash
>Of course she is. She's another Stronk Female Character for unattractive females and white knights to worship.
Nope. She was competent before this PC wave. She's been queen of the Forsaken since 2003.

>>50042815
>Alliance
>Better magic

You're right on the others, but Grithos drove away the best magic users in the world. The only comparable mages are naga and, recently, nightborne.

>Inb4 muh Kirin Tor
Yeah Dalaran and Jaina's power level are 10 times bigger asspulls than Org could ever hope to be.

Fucking nelves should be at least equal in strength to humans and dwarves could literally steamroll humans. Humans are as much annoying Mary Sues as orcs are dindus

>>50048658

MMO Champion Niggers please go

>>50048679
I think in terms of military power. Dwarves should be at the top by themselves, and boosted even further up by gnomish artifice and arcana. Followed by humans assuming it's all the remaining human kingdoms working together (which they never do). Then the night elves

>>50048679
>blood elves
>best magic users
junkies please go.

>>50049052
Junkies they may be, they still have the most knowledge of the arcane

They're an entire race of magic sherlock holmes. Drugged up as fuck, but still the best in their field

>>50048886
Never posted there in my life, you presumptuous fuck. Just stating fact.

>>50048544
Hell no. Grom should have been killed via raid in WoD and the fact he didn't was the cherry on the shit sundae of that expansion.

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>there are actually two Warcraft threads running right now

why

>>50048679
>You're right on the others, but Grithos drove away the best magic users in the world. The only comparable mages are naga and, recently, nightborne.
Everyone forgets that the Draenei were masters of magic before Elves even existed.

>>50049976
That's because the correct view of the draenei is to forget they exist

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>>50050005
I like them.

>>50050005
Draenei are great, why don't you like them?

>>50050196
Holier than humans, better at magic than elves, better tech than gnomes or goblins with a longer history than trolls and a bigger bone to pick with the demons than orcs.

They basically just take every cool thing other races have and invalidate them, or they would if the writers ever paid attention to them, but fortunately the writers have actually caught on to how obnoxious everything about the draenei is and have remembered to not let them do things so they don't make everyone else cease mattering


Instead humans do that, because the writers are still incompetent as fuck

>>50050233
They could've always had their big thing being a beef against the Orcs for the whole genocide thing.

>>50049361
people make 2 threads by mistake sometimes.
let the gnome one die.

>>50050005
Maraad never dies.

>>50050656
Makes you wonder why out of all the cinematic trailer characters only the Draenei and Panderan actually became plot relevant.

>>50049976
They're also easily the least numerous of all of the playable races and most of them go holy as opposed to arcane.

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>>50050690

What if the NPCs that wander Dalaran in Legion are characters from the previous trailers?
Could pic related be Garl Grimgizzle?

>>50051647
the thing I find weird about those guys is that they're all still in WoD tier despite being 105
buncha morons wasting all their money on transmogs before max level

Gul'dan is second best orc.

Best is Garrosh.

>>50051647
The characters that wander Dalaran in Legion are the same ones from Wrath, I'm pretty sure.

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>>50039593
>Warcraft
>lore

>>50051854

>incoherent character

>there to force faction faggotry

>was key in getting us the train wreck that is Warlords of Draenor

>best Orc

Not sure if Horde Dindu Nuffin poster or pol faggot.

>>50052014
He wasn't there for that originally. He was going to be a warchief for longer if not for the incessant bitching of the 'fans' that decried him for threatening their waifu Sylvanas, putting Vol'jin in his place for acting like a retard, and killing Cairne.

The 'fans' are as much to blame for half the faggotry in the game as the writers forced to pander to them.

>>50052040
No, the "forcing faction faggotry" problem was a part of Garrosh from WotLK onwards, and was always his biggest problem

>>50051906

>Joke of a Lore
>Inconsistent
>Loads of Dindu Nuffins
>favoritism here favoritism there,
>Whitewashing
>Reusing dead characters when you get into a corner
>Cartoon Villains

How can you talk about WC Lore seriously? How?

>>50052197

You got triggered?

>>50052197
he's shitposting to try and get the thread deleted
just ignore him

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>>50052229

You need to go back.

(to Reddit)

>>50052281

>everybody who mocks the Horde and/or Illidan is one poster

>>50052265

Twitter is way over there ->.

>>50052281
reading comprehension is hard, you're right

If the worgen are cured, do they lose their druidic powers?
If not, can they control pack form?

>>50052454
the worgen curse can't be cured, and Gilnean humans knew druidic magic already because of reasons
also, I don't think anyone knows how to do the pack form anymore

>>50052540
>the worgen curse can't be cured

Not even by Dr. Van Hellsing's famous bullet through the brains treatment?

>>50052540
Worgen is pack form u undead

>>50052704
yeah but the pack form is voluntary while becoming a worgen is now transmitted through a curse. After the original worgen got spaced, everyone forgot about the pack form

>>50052719
Packform also makes you go apeshit

Why would you want to cure the Worgen curse anyway? Seems that Worgen are superior to regular Humans.

>>50052950
Probably comes with some weird and uncomfortable instincts. Not to mention that you completely lose control and become a mindless killing machine without alchemical or night elf help

>>50052982
I guess, I dont know much about worgen lore aside from "super stronk wolf people"

>>50052540
They didn't know druidic magic. It was coincidentally similar plant manipulation.

>>50051906
It's a pile of shit, really.

People flocking to these threads are nostalgic fags and living cancer from /v/ and /vg/.

>>50053536
There can't be people from /vg/ here, because they actually talk about the topic of the thread.

>>50050900
using player numbers to back up lore is dumb.

>>50050690
That pandaren in question was already plot relevant.

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who's the karl franz of azeroth + outlands?

>>50053536
It's a pile of shit NOW, but once upon a time, it was good stuff

That's why I keep coming to these stupid threads, because I remember when WoW lore gripped me moreso than any other fantasy setting, before Kosak ruined everything and rendered the setting so broken that a hard reset is the only possible way left to fix it

>>50053709
it's not using player numbers, tauren and pandas are the least played race
draenei have been genocided constantly for 25k years and they're down to barely enough people to skeleton crew a spachship

>>50053802
I wonder how much of it was because of the lore itself and how much of it was because of the gameplay of WoW.

When I moved to the states, the first thing I did after getting a computer was buying WoW from the local gamestop because I had to explore azeroth in 3rd person.

>>50053815
yes, and from what we know of the draenei they have advanced magitech, which is arcane in nature.

>>50053827
Kind of, but I think it was also because WC3 was my first exposure to orcs, minotaurs and trolls that weren't pure evil all the time, and the idea that "monstrous" races could have just as deep and complex societies as humans, dwarves and elves just seemed amazing and fantastic to ten-year-old me.

>>50053802
>nostalgia.jpg

What is your favourite Blizzard's take on a fantasy cliche ? We all know that while they don't produce anything original, Blizzard is very good at manipulating cliches into polished, researched and surprisingly good ideas.

Mine is how they transformed Dwarves into boring miners and drunkards into Archeologists, Griffon-riders and Mages.

>>50040539
>Here we see the poltard outside of its natural habitat, trying to communicate
1st and 2nd War were under the Legion's influence. 3rd War was a common effort, except Hellscream's dickery. And that is everything that matters - in WoW they are both ready to kill each other and are equally guilty.

>>50053900
Precisely, and what's so wrong with that?

>>50053926
Not wrong per se, but it could prove to be a skewing factor when evaluating lore.

>>50053709
It's not player numbers. Draenei are lorewise few in number and largely focussed on holy rather than arcane. Therefore while their mages may be excellent they're also really few in number.

>>50053907
I think Halo might have beaten them to it, but the Mogu and their whole "ancient precursor empire is actually just the remnants of a separate, even stronger faction that's completely disappeared" thing

>>50053947
But there's a problem with that viewpoint

The only people who like WoW lore are nostalgiafags, anyone who likes WoW and isn't a nostalgiafag likes it for reasons unrelated to the lore. So any discussion about WoW lore will always be carried and maintained by those who have nostalgia for what it once was

>>50053964
>The only people who like WoW lore are nostalgiafags
Wrong.

>>50054026
>wrong

Who the fuck else likes WoW lore? There's nothing to like about it that's less than 6 years old

>>50054129
MoP might have been pretty bad gameplay-wise, it had a nice atmosphere. Same with old Dreanor.

WotLK is heavily shrouded in Nostalgia, though. Remember those Lich King monologues as you made your way through Northrend ?

>>50054173
Hmm... good point, Pandaria and Draenor were cool places until the plot reared it's ugly cancerous head and ruined both of them

>>50054129
idk about most the people here but i actually liked MoP. more so than cata, WAY more than draenor. i think the story there had quite a few "this is fucking dumb" moments but all around i liked the premise of all the villains and the mantid particularly were kick ass. i wanted the monkey king to beat some ass/be relevant but cant have it all. also while on the topic why didnt alliance get pandas and horde get the monkey people as a race? like the monkeys wouldnt have been hard to model armor on and they could have written the race differently rather than make them straight din doos.

>>50054209
like for instance they could have written the monkeys as the ones to discover windwalker monk while being in the trees and shit and the first one to do it would have been their racial leader. have his name be like some play on sun wukong and make him bad ass. and the pandas have been like the first brewmasters and mistweavers and have chen be their leader. like even if this idea is shit its still better than writing off an entire race but like one as literal stereotypical shit tossin monkeys.

>>50054209
Why does everyone say the Pandas should join the Alliance and not the Horde?

Does nobody remember Chen Stormstout in WC3 or something?

>>50054298
The Stormstouts are outliers, even among Panderans

>>50050233
>better tech than gnomes or goblins
said tech is naa'ru not their own.

>>50053794
Arthas Menethil the one true Lich King.

>>50054298
That argument is sort of weak, because Chen is a single person and doesn't represent the political needs and goals of Pandaria.

That was kind of the beauty of tFT lore back then and what Metzen had envisioned: That a race consisted of individual people and that internal differences existed.

Chen was basically an adventurer without any standing in Pandarian politics.

It's a shame that they made Pandaria a homogenous culture, because Samwise had some concept art that showcased the "Pandyr", which I assume was his OC counter faction to Pandaren and who basically were samurai viking Panda people.

Based on this, we could have had at least dedicated Horde and Alliance Pandas, the former fitting the tribalistic theme and the latter being part of the faction of established nations.

>>50054129
>just_my_opinion.jpg
>I've never met anyone who likes new WoW lore
>Anyone who does has objectively shit taste
>objective_opinions.png

>>50053839
And a big part of it is Naaru technology.

>>50054129
Lore isn't bad, it's the campaign that sucks.
Personally, I liked WoD Blackhand's backstory.

>>50054446
>>50055355
They were explicitly stated to have left argus before they met the Naaru.
Tempest Keep, exodar etc are naaru tech yes, but the draenei still had post-modern technology themselves.

>>50055378
What was his story

>>50054298
I don't know, maybe because the Horde fucked up Pandaria, kept fucking it up and Garrosh, their leader, completely shat on the Pandaren emissary and continued to do so throughout the expansion.
The pandas have no reason whatsoever to join up with the Horde. They should either be a neutral force, or cooperate with the Alliance to kick the Horde out of Pandaria for good.

>>50055624
Because Horde can still grow as a faction.

>>50055640
it has grown into a tumor though.

>>50055653
Yes and? Your average fetal alcohol syndrome panda won't be able to tell that.

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>>50055496
>They were explicitly stated to have left argus before they met the Naaru.
>What is Genedar

>>50055520
What we used to know about Blackhand the Destroyer:
>Strong, strategically keen Chieftain of Blackrock Clan
>Rather advanced in age
>Ambitious, and this ambition was what Gul'dan used to control him
>Killed by Orgrim "The Backstabber" Doomhammer before the final Siege of Stormwind (back in the day there was one more in the lore, with Twilight Hammer and Bleeding Hollow doing the attack, not cooperating, and ending up surprised by Knights of Stormwind)
WoD Blackhand's backstory:
>Blackrock Orcs lives in a big mountain in Gorgorond (the dry part of would-be Blade's Edge Mountains area)
>Years ago Orgrim threw Doomhammer back to the pool of lava it came from, to avoid his destiny
>Many orcs have died in attempt to get it out for their personal glory
>Under siege by Ogres from Gorian Empire
>The Chieftain (of unspecified name) decides to get the Doomhammer out, not for personal glory, but to save his Clan (and to use Doomhammer to create weapons for them)
>In the attempt, the Elements burns his right arm, which becomes black and a bit magma-like, but allows him to use Doomhammer to create weapons for his Clan, and to fight with it for this one battle, but then the hammer goes back to Orgrim
>After the battle, the Chieftain gives the hammer back to Orgrim, because he now have legacy of his own
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/template_resource/O0YJSSDNAZW31412099425685.pdf

>>50055700
kek.

>>50055624
Ya gotta feel bad for Ji.

He finally finds a faction with a mindset that seems to match his own in the outside world, only for its leader to devastate his people's homeland, treat him like dirt, and then eat Old God juice and have him tortured.

>>50056355
>>50055653
> That poor Pandaren Monk trainer on Forsaken starter area...
> She is not only on a horrible place with horrible creatures but also clueless that the aphotecary constantly try to kill her.

>>50056496
wait what.

>>50055624

But the problem is, the horde has to be shoehorned into every neutral organization, Cenarion Circle, Argent Dawn, Silver Hand, Dalaran, Shattrath etc cause logically they would be all heavily alliance leaning if not completely alliance. The Earthen Ring is the only one that started out as fully horde.

>>50056594
>Cenarion Circle
muh tauren :DdDD
>Shattrath
It's belves, draenei and assorted.

>>50055624

The Pandas that are part of the Horde believe philosophically that its better to do SOMETHING and get a horrible devestating failure as a result than to waste time in contemplation and hand-wringing about what right and wrong are. The Horde is the perfect place for them to be.

They're also enlightened enough as a species to recognize that blaming entire races and entire factions for the faults of a horrific despot who stoked the social engines that can make good people into horrible monsters is fucking dumb. They're not going to kick the Horde out of Pandaria because it was Garrosh that was the problem.

>>50056614

Tauren druids were the original draenei retcon everyone forgot about. The elves are all about that demigod shit, even the keepers and dryads are half-night elf, the ancients only respond to night elves, the dragons only blessed the night elves' world tree and the big G God of druidism is the night elf deity.Even the druid iconography is night elf based. Taurens are just tagging along.

>It's belves, draenei and assorted.

Its a draenei city, refounded by a draenei priesthood and the windchimes themselves are 1000% draenei related. Lower city is just refuges(but I give it that its reasonable to make them neutral and multiracial) and blood elves are just recent defectors. Hell, those elves were literally never part of the horde, they left the alliance with kael, traveled to outland and defected from kael to the aldor priesthood actually running the city. They were never horde for a second.

>>50056594

I don't think you understand what the term "neutral," means. The Horde has been growing and expanding (despite logic, blah blah magically infinite populations, shut the fuck up nobody cares) since WC3. If a group is intentionally separate from the Alliance for whatever reason, they're going to accept applicants from Horde races who fit their mold BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT NEUTRAL MEANS. The Cenarion Circle takes Tauren and Trolls because they're fucking druids.

Are you going to bitch about Worgen being in the Circle too? They've been isolated behind a wall with a dwindling population for a decade, and suddenly Celeste and a bunch of other Worgen are all over the Druid group. Muh Realism! It should take them years to integrate an any serious numbers! Fuck Blizzard!

>>50056692

Which is why The Scryers are a neutral faction any race can join, not Horde. What are you even debating?

>>50056692
Technically Aldor are loyal to A'dal, long separated from Velen, and never were a part of the Alliance either.

>>50056693

>trying to shitpost this hard

You also completely proved my point. "Neutral" factions are not actually neutral. They are alliance factions who inexplicably became pro-horde. Especially glaring with Cenarius being a-ok the guys who killed him STILL fucking defiling the forest. Or the paladin order not doing anything about the undead trying to exterminate the living and raising the dead right next to them.

>>50056628
The problem here is that as far as orcs and forsaken go horrific despot=perfectly normal as far as they're concerned.

>>50056692
> Big G God
Cenarius? Please, he got killed by Grom on a bad weekend...

>>50056744

The Neutral Factions are neutral because they are dealing with shit that's more important than petty bickering over stupid political shit. Cenarius is willing to put the fact that the Horde is poaching lumber aside and let Tauren and Trolls be in the circle because dealing with Faction Shit IS NOT WHAT THE CIRCLE DOES. The Circle left the Night Elf banner almost certainly because the Night Elf government joined the Alliance and the Circle KNEW that was a bad idea because being at the beck and call of their faction and its agenda would get in the way of their job, so they split off.

The Argent Dawn/Crusade/Silver Hand should be worried about the Forsaken. Except, oh wait, there's a Scourge and Burning Legion for us to manage isn't there. So, hmm, shall we ban these Tauren and Blood Elf paladins from our ranks because they associate with people we would be fighting absent a larger threat? I'm gonna say no because that would be retarded because if the larger threat wins we all die horribly. Yeah, good talk fellow Paladins.

You can sit there and talk about "logic," but your logic is grounded in a presumption about how things "should," be that doesn't take any other possible way of looking at the world into account. The Neutral Factions are neutral because being neutral is whats best for them. Deal with it.

>>50056833
>there's a Scourge
NEO SCOURGE DID NOTHING WRONG.
BOLVAR IS YOUR ONLY HOPE FOR SALVATION.
HAND OVER THE BODY BAG.

>>50056833
The silver hand/argent dawn were sitting next to genociding undead for 3 expansions before they came in contact with a threat that demanded their atention.

Tyrion could have spend those 5 years purging the lich queen but instead chose to sit on his ass until he could finally die to the legion

>>50056810

>what is Elune

>>50056833
Scourge that has returned to its hikikomori ways once the burnt king took over.

>>50056890
>Implying Tyrion ever gave a shit about anything but boosting his own ego and how pure he was.

>>50056579
On Forsaken starter area there is a Padaren with a nickname of "Iron Stomach" or something that is tasting some Aphotecary drinks.

The guy is a bit confuse why she is still alive but keep trying anyway. She is apparently clueless about the whole thing.

>>50056927
>Implying that he wouldn't smite Sylvanas and the apotecaries to become a symbol of freedom and unity to the forsaken and horde

>>50056893
She fights on the battlefield or do something relevant? Otherwise she is not different than light or fel magic or ay magic mcguffing...

>>50056579
The monk trainer in the first forsaken town in tirisfal samples forsaken ''Brews'' and comments on how strange they taste, the alchemist that makes them for her turns around a corner and says to himself that she should be a pile of ooze after drinking that.

>>50056890

Have you been to the Eastern Plaguelands? The Argent Crusade was not sitting on its hands through Pandaria and Draenor, there were still Scourge remnant forces not under Bolvar's control dug deep into that land. There's a reason WPL has begun to heal and been able to be recolonized by both factions while EPL has not.

The Crusade made a conscious decision when war broken out between the Alliance and Horde to keep their eye on the ball and stay focused on a fight that they were winning but had not yet won. Could they have picked a side in EPL? Yeah, but then what happens when the Scourge forces they have bottled up in Stratholm come surging out because they're busy fighting in Gilneas? All the work they've done to take back Lordearon is UNdone overnight, that's what.

>>50056893
Not a goddess of druidism.

>>50056961
She's the only God that hasn't been dead for the last million years.

>>50056992

It is.

>>50056893
A Naaru.

>>50057106
Wanna bet how long it will take until they retcon titans to be a now extinct subspecies of the fucking wind chimes?

>>50057106

Elune ain't a naaru, that shit she did with putting Ysera in the stars themselves was way beyond the shit we've seen the Wind Chimes ever do. They're basically just Light-Side equivalents to Eredar Lords and other high rank demons, they can't bend the heavens to their will.

>>50057143
That was elune? Why would she take the effort to make a constellation and not, say, kill the orcs that have been killing and torturing her people for the last 20ish years?

Go back to >>>/vg/ faggots this isn't where you belong

>>50057192
Elune is in love with BGC.

>>50057207
>/vg/
>lore

If anything they'd delete any non-gameplay threads.

>>50057207
If this thread triggers you then maybe you should report it so that the hot pockets can delete it if it is offtopic shitposting.

>>50057192
Because she is above such petty hatreds, of course.

>>50057143
That is powerful, but when was the last time Velen was wrong about something?

>>50057244
>That is powerful, but when was the last time Velen was wrong about something?
Not joining the Burning Legion?

>>50057244
The entire fucking Exodar quest for Light's Heart. He did everything he possibly could wrong there.

So how about this new Illidan storyline?

>>50057268
>destroy the universe to save the universe from being destroyed

>>50057143
Blizzard did that cutscene because it looks nice... Its not like Elune can popup some supergiant star on the other side of the galaxy.

The light of those star would take time to reach Azeroth anyway...

>>50057344
Bent gravity /some other sort of magical "Lens" to twist light so the star position seemed different.

>>50057344

>A god moves the stars themselves as a memorial for a fallen dragon hero

>talks about how unrealistic it is because of physics and other science shit

I almost forgot where I was for a minute.

>>50057447
It is unrealistic and stupid for several reasons.

If any God could popup stars whenever they want the Legion would not be a problem.

"Here is a Gas Giant Sargeas, take that!"

Yesra stars are not different than any Druid "stars" from starfall. Just magic dust mcguffing.

>Founder of the motherfucking Horde becomes Neutral
>Waaah why are all these lesser formerly pro Alliance factions neutral
Seriously?

>>50056961

Elune made Ysera a constellation in the sky at the end of the Valshara storyline. Elune is the one being that's confirmed to be an actual deity.

>>50057798
Tbh making Thrall neutral was also a mistake.

>>50057633

Elune acts through her chosen priestesses and champions. Clearly being able to exonerate one of her most beloved creatures as a set of stars in the sky is something she is capable of in this unique circumstance. Stop trying to apply real world logic to a mythical deity as old as time.

>>50057798
>>50057934
Meh, my bigger question is "Why isn't EVERYONE mostly neutral"

But I guess people like me gotta make like the biggest in-universe pusher of unity and take our place amongst the legends of the past.

> Cenarion Circle should not be neutral

For god sake, we have Dwarves and Draenei at the Earth Ring

>>50056961

She might possibly be the actual creator of the universe.

>>50057798
>>Thrall neutral
>>Constantly hangs out with the Horde and does Horde stuff and will side with them when shit goes down
>>Alliance neutral
>>Stays neutral

>>50057987

I always thought it was strange that they kept debunking "gods" in Warcraft as demigods, powerful spirits, Ancient, pretty much anything except an actual god, except for Elune. I like the idea of deities in fantasy settings, and I like that there are a bunch of things that are not actually deities, which makes sense, but it's interesting that Elune of all them is the one real deal. She seems so specific as a "night elf moon goddess" that it's hard to imagine her as an Alpha Omega sort of god. I feel like they should have used the Draenei and the Naaru as the missing link between "the Light" and the unnamed god connected to it. At least we could have gotten a Sun/Moon relationship between the Light and Elune but instead it's just... energy or something, I still don't really know what the deal is with the Light.

>>50057633

Right, imagine you are a game developer with access to the source code of the game, and need a specific set of conditions to test something or mess around or related. Normally, the circumstances needed to get to that condition would be long and tedious or not even possible given the current laws of physics in place. Since you have the source code though, you can either add debugging options to make those conditions occur spontaneously, or if you can temporarily alter the way the variables are read to force that specific situation to occur even if under the previous set of rules such a scenario would be impossible, changing things back to show they "should" be once you're done, nobody probably the wiser.

That is how a god does something that is physically impossible - by temporarily rewriting physics, or making a permanent exception.

>>50058069

The Light seems to be like The Force, in that its an infinity recursive cosmic energy which is generated by life and is manipulated through emotion and morality.

Void also seems to be a cosmic byproduct or counterbalance of Light rather than a corruption of Light like the Dark Side is. Light can just be used for evil ends without it becoming void.

>>50057798
Alliance players whine about literally anything
>Thrall has been neutral since Cataclysm
>Baine was completely cut from Legion because Alliance players didn't want the Horde to have a unique storyline in Highmountain
>Tyrande and Velen don't immediately kill any Horde player they see for 3 quests
>Alliance players cry about that too

>>50058943
Anything to keep the faction war going. It really is one of the worst portions of the lore, as it forces the lore to serve the gameplay rather than the other way around.

>>50053907

>The Horde a good boy he dindu nuffin

>>50054531

>getting this triggered at WoW Lore getting called trash

>>50056628

>Cucking for the Horde makes you enlightened

>>50056771

They dindu nuffin.

>>50056833

>trying to excuse Blizzard's Neutral Faggotry

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>>50059729
Jaina, get off the Arcanet. I know Khadgar didn't change Dalaran's Wiz-Fi password and Theramore's hotspot got blown up with the rest of it, but shouldn't you maybe be actually trying to fight the Legion?

>>50056628
>They're also enlightened enough as a species to recognize that blaming entire races and entire factions for the faults of a horrific despot who stoked the social engines that can make good people into horrible monsters is fucking dumb. They're not going to kick the Horde out of Pandaria because it was Garrosh that was the problem.

>But its okay to manabomb humans.

So who will be the canon wielders of the artifact weapons? Most likely choices, and who should really be the ones?

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>>50057135
it won't be long

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>>50060295
Warlocks bring back Smuggest Orc from the Twisting Nether and give him back Scepter of Sargeras as apology for stealing it from him.
Then revive Thal'kiel, and since he was a bro when he was just a skull we let him have the Ulthalesh scythe.

>>50060026
There was no civil casuality... Just some blue dragons.

Garrosh is ironically less guilt on bombing than the USA.

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>>50061096
'Murrica chose the lesser of two evils. Garry just wanted to swing his dick around.

Anyone here finish New Karazhan?

Medivh is back again? Wat

>>50061163
Nuclear weapons are all about swing dicks... Cold War is the proof

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>>50054173
Wrath-babies are probably the most populous long-term players now. TBC players are a rarity, and OG Vanilla players are living relics of a bygone age.

>>50062278
Let me put that another way.
US bombs ended the war. Garry bomb ended his career.

>>50062297
I've been playing since Vanilla beta.
Still am. Don't know why.
Was going to cancel in Panda. Logged into Battlenet to finally do it. Saw that I had an invite to the WoD beta. Decided to give it a go before I left WoW for good. WoD Beta was great and I went and preordered that shit.
I'm still salty how much wasted potential was in that expansion.

>>50062297
I think most wrath-babies would have quit by now, because even they aren't getting what they want

Cata-babies on the other hand

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>>50062323
Didn't play beta, but started in November of 04.

>>50062367
Really? I see them all the time. Mostly human paladins. I started leveling my druid this week, and I got called a FOTM reroller despite having a Vanilla-era title on my Druid.

>>50062306
It would work well if we had Stalin as a Tauren racial leader.

>>50062297
I started in Vanilla and quit right before the Cata launch. I still play on a private Wrath server though.

I prefer to think of World of Warcraft as it used to be, not the abomination it has become.

>>50062720
Dalaran?

I was tempted to startup again because the new stuff about the Legion and some of the weapons looks interesting, but every time I end up remembering how boring WOD was.

>>50062817
Warmane/Molten

Yeah there's some stuff post Cata that I like, but I just cant deal with the Horde going full retard villian.

>>50063031
I've got some alliance characters on Dalaran, (the horde leaves a bad taste in my mouth these days), but I haven't played in a while. I was horde main for most of the game, it was the forsaken storyline that turned me off far more than the rest of it, granted i'd given up on trolls ever being relevant before Mists.

I liked some aspects of Cata, the redesign was nice for the most part, even if the Forsaken stuff seemed to come out of the blue a bit. Honestly with the DK stuff I've seen in regards to Legion I just can't work out why they've gone back to the scourge, only with discount Arthas and without the best Lich.

I'm very interested in starting a game of this with my friends online just to have some fun and maybe make an alternate timeline story set around WotLK.

Anyone have any links to the book downloads?

>>50063094
>Honestly with the DK stuff I've seen in regards to Legion I just can't work out why they've gone back to the scourge, only with discount Arthas and without the best Lich.
To do what the living cannot. There's no way Azorath is gonna win against an infinitely large army without one of its own

>>50039593
Jaina Proudmoore did nothing wrong.

>>50063649
if that's the case I would have rather spent the last 3 expansions crusading across existence with Lich Jaina and Death Lord Varian.

Played original trilogy but never played WoW.

Am I correct in my understanding that WoW just basically shits all over the plot/lore/etc. and just makes everything really stupid?

>>50063782
Pretty much, it is actually much worse than that.

>>50063782
It didn't do that in Vanilla, but it sure as hell does now

Newfag to this thread, this is my first post.

Why--what's there to WoW lore anymore? Why would this general even exist? I know that the lore was good once upon a time, and I felt it too, roughly until Cataclysm, but it's been years of bad ideas, retcons upon retcons, lore forced by the MMO gameplay, lack of expansion on the old themes that made it good, or that expansion achieved with retcons and comic book tier ideas.

Sure not all ideas have been bad, and probably not all retcons, but the drought got to me, the cheesiness the new quests, so much that I lost the taste for the lore of Warcraft. What would keep you in it? Pardon my dyslexia.

>>50063862
Because when making a tabletop campaign set in the Warcraft world, you can ignore all the shitty lore. So we use these threads to discuss the good lore and how to use it

That's the theory anyway, in practice we just bitch about shitty writing and deal with an abnormally large number of /pol/tards

>>50063782
Eh it didn't get horrible until Kosak took over the Lore and decided to undo all the development The Horde had made since WC2. Yeah there was some dumb stuff prior to that, but there was good stuff too.

>>50063977
This. Warcraft is no sillier than stuff like 40k when you really look at it. It's an interesting world to set stuff in

>>50064099
>>but muh wc3 lore

>>50057038
Not at all. Priestess of the Moon is a different path from the Path of a Druid.
t. Cenarius

>>50057135
Not happening.
Naaru = being of light.
Titan = being of pure Arcane energy.
At best a Titan could be potentially infused with Light, just as it could be Void or Fel corrupted.

>>50063862
Lore isn't bad in itself, as it is mostly background.

Main storyline, on the other hand...

>>50058977
The worst thing about the faction war is that neither side will make any significant or permanent gains or losses. A war is not interesting if things have no consequence.

>IF youre letting the allies seige Org, you better have the balls to let them dismental at the very least the orcs' military.

>If youre gona have the Horde beat Genn and leave him on a crashing ship, blow his small boat up while he's on it, then have him take a black arrow right at his bare chest, you'd better at least cripple him.

But noooo, the Alliance babys would cry. Even fucking Arthas wad paralyzed by those arrows, and youre telling me some cursed old mutant man can not only survive falling hundreds of meters, getting blowned up, and has more poison/dark magic resistance than the literal champion of death himself?

>>50063750
Soon. Anub'arak=varian kt=jaina nerzhul=bolvar and arthas = anduin

>>50051906
How many times are you going to post that image?

>>50064350
Furry magics > weakening death knight

>>50064350
Think the arrow Sylvannis hit Arthas with was one specially made for him, not just a standard black arrow.

Still it doesn't bother me too much. Genns whole gig is that he has a shitload of metal strength, I mean he was able to hold off the Worgan curse for months before succumbing.

>>50064350
>>Alliance babys would cry
Funny, over half of these threads are Horde babbys crying their eyes out and trying to justify being complete dicks.

>>50064589
Personally I blame WC3 and the orc did nuffing wrong, it was all due to the demon mountain dew-mentality that it brought.

>>50064099
But 40k is incredibly silly though

>>50064607

And then WoD showed us that the orcs need no kool-aid to chimp out and genocide and the whole peaceful shamanistic thing was a sham.

>>50064412
>arthas = anduin

Christ I'll laugh if that ends up happening.

>>50064589
Nah, it's both sides being fools

For every jackass tryng to justify Garrosh, there's another one trying to justify Garithos, and both are equally wrong

>>50064668
>no scene of Thrall reacting to how everything Grom told him of his people was a lie
>no scene of Thrall realizing that Draenor is a horrible horrible place

>>50064716
That would had meant character growth for the Green Jesus and we can't have that, can we?

You know just once I'd like a thread where the "Garrosh did nothing wrong" and the "Orc dindu" posters take a day off.

Can we at least argue about something else for once? How about how Tyrande is a cockteasing bitch who's only method of problem solving involves shooting arrows at stuff til it stops moving and gets angry when her edgelord brother in law actually solves the problem for her?

>>50064703
I was jesting.

Its thrall's wife son that is arthas.
50% orc 50% human lk

>>50064724
He hasn't even been seemingly-infallible since Cata.

>>50064716
I feel like Thrall's character arc was almost completed in WC3, but never went any further than that

The payoff, the moment where he realizes that the orcs he worshipped as heroes were just warmongerers, never came, so Thrall just feels like he's incomplete as a character. Like there will always be a piece of him missing

>>50064725
Tyrande is a perfectly functional character as-is, I'm just not sure if any of the writers realize why.

She's a brilliant soldier who's been promoted far above the level of her own competence, and after ten thousand years of peace had convinced herself that she was competent enough to fill the role, only to be proven frightfully wrong. But her position was granted essentially by divine mandate, so she can't quit and can't put the responsibility on anyone else. She's trapped.

>>50057244
>The Naaru is unguarded over there in the Exodar, where all that fel sludge is over the ramp
After millennia of fighting the Legion, you leave one of your greatest assets for fighting them unguarded and cornered?
Velen deserved to watch his son die, what an idiot.

>>50064794
To be fair, I don't think the Legion ever teleported armies/structures directly into enemy territory until now. No one expected it so they couldn't prepare in time.

>>50064725
Well, we could always talk alternate scenarios.

So let's try a few! Each is its own separate timeline with a different divergence point. Most/all of them are probably dumb, but I make no claims to be a master MMO writer.

>The fight between Sargeras and the other Titans ends with his death and Khaz'goroth as the only Titan besides Azeroth to survive. The others sacrificed themselves so he could continue the great work.

>Yulon, Niuzao, Chi-Ji, and Xuen fight in the War of the Ancients, leading the Jinyu, Hozen, and Pandaren to the side of Kalimdor's defenders. This results in Xuen and Ashamane ripping Archimonde in half between them before he can kill Malorne.

>Lor'themar rejoins the Alliance in BC after realizing Garithos was a one-off thing who only got to his position because of the damage the Scourge did to Lordaeron's chain of command, Velen reluctantly joins the Horde after a Naaru vision tells him to and most Draenei take his word for it only grudgingly. Vol'jin sympathizes because sometimes the Loa tell him stuff that seems stupid but works out later too.

>The Scourge are the opposite of what the Red Dragons are all about, so Alexstrasza leads the assault on Icecrown herself.

>Lei Shen, rather than immediately attempt to retake Pandaria, first seeks to finish what he started with the Tol'vir, giving the Alliance and Horde a chance to help him.

>>50065011
>>Lei Shen, rather than immediately attempt to retake Pandaria, first seeks to finish what he started with the Tol'vir, giving the Alliance and Horde a chance to help him.
>Joining Mogu warlord in getting control of WMD in Uldum
Why?

>>50065011
>draenei joining the horde
>the only people who got raped harder by orcs than humans

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>>50065133
>>the only people who got raped harder by orcs than humans

>>50064794
His son ain't even dead

Immortal demon soul

Pretty sure the Exodar doesn't have enough fel atmosphere for him to perma die

>>50065011
>Varian starts open warfare with the Horde following the Cataclysm instead of Garrosh, reversing the roles of the Horde and Alliance from there on out. Resulting in things like Stonard being mana-nuked and a raid against Varian in Stormwind at the end of MoP

>Garrosh dies at Wrathgate, Saurfang jr becomes the next warchief after Thrall.

>During the events of Cataclysm, Lor'Themar, Mekkatorque, Baine Bloodhoof and Anduin Wrynn start a secret cross-faction organization designed to mitigate the damage caused by the Horde-Alliance war. PCs are agents of this organization

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>>50039593
She's done nothing wrong.

>>50065583
Of course not, she's human

No matter what she does, it either has in-built justification, or will later be retconned to be totally justified.

Humans aren't allowed to be wrong in Warcraft

>>50065011
>Vol'jin sympathizes because sometimes the Loa tell him stuff that seems stupid but works out later too.
Fucking laughed out loud.

>>50065011
>The Scourge are the opposite of what the Red Dragons are all about, so Alexstrasza leads the assault on Icecrown herself.
>Except for that time when Kael raised a zombie goblin in the War of the Ancients for reasons.
>We are servants of Life. That means we know Death equally well.

I couldn't fully apppreciate how shit Knaack was when I first read those books, but that passage even struck me as godawful.

>>50065591
human AND from Dalaran
plot armor on top of plot armor

>>50065011
>>The Scourge are the opposite of what the Red Dragons are all about, so Alexstrasza leads the assault on Icecrown herself.
honestly, the fact that this didn't happen is beyond retarded, especially when she arbitrarily decides to break her "mortal problems are mortals' problems" rule for no reason to clean up the Wrathgate, then fucks off back to Wyrmrest for the rest of the expansion
Zuluhed did nothing wrong. Enslave the dragons, war on land, sea and air now

>>50065591
Benedictus, Mad-Mad Medivh, Arthas, Vanessa van Nopants and her daddy, Kel'thuzad, Mograine the Mighty Mace Man and his Scarlet Anti-Boyscouts and -Girlscouts, every human warlock who justifies nothing and does it for the sake of getting more power,

>>50065926
but the Van Cleefs are unironically right

>>50065926
Against other humans, against other humans, against other humans, against other humans, you got a point on Mograine

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Why didn't Eyir squash Sylvanas like a bug? The lantern was destroyed and she was free, but she just got out of Dodge instead.

>>50065984
>Twilight Hammer and Scourge are only the enemies of Aliiance
wut

>>50065709

Especially after the LK killing dragons, trying to raise Galakrond and the dragons desperately recruiting mortals to help them

Just finished the shaman campaign, and holy shit, did any other class get this much love this expansion? I feel like they got 3x as much attention as any other class, though I've only done a third of the classes so far.

>>50066107
the DK campaign is super cool, but all 3 specs' mechanics are fucked and mediocre af in group content

>>50066008
Vrykul are jobbers.

Their size serves solely to make anyone who beats them look more badass.

>>50066107
the druid campaign is decent
the hunter campaign is really really meh

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>Hallows End has actually been incorporated into real lore.

Jesus fucking Christ

>>50066008
plot armor
rumor has it kosak fired the guy who made the stormheim story and cried into his waifu pillow after the game went live.

>>50066008
Probably weakened by the binding spell and everything else that lead to it.

Also, I'm still mad that she gives Alliance players shit for "having no honour" in Halls of Valor, even though it was the Horde that almost managed to capture her before based Genn and his Alliance murderhobos saved her shiny metal ass.

>>50066008
Probably the same reason why Sylvanas let a wounded Genn limp away: plot.

>>50066039
Benedictus and Kel'thuzad hurt humans far more than they hurt anybody else. Especially Kel'Thuzad.

>>50066008
Sylvanas + val'kyr femdom dungeon when?

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>>50039593
>Best Orc Edition
I didn't mind it when Orcs were just a bloodthirsty merciless horde pouring through a portal hellbent on exterminating all of humanity.

It was about the time where Orcs became a noble warrior race - and it started seeping into tabletop gaming - that I started to dislike them.

>>50066221
There's nothing wrong with using orcs as angry loot boxes, nor is there anything wrong with using them as a terrifying horde that must be stopped, or using them as a society of noble savages, or using them as just another aspect of a multi-racial society with varying internal cultures

Orcs don't exist, you can make them whatever the fuck you want

>>50066107
Priest campaign so far seems to suggest that "yup, we're a bunch if support bitches, if legion finds our base they'll rape us like the useless healsluts we are so go steal the warrior class halls divine protection so we can keep hiding like pussies, they probably won't need it, they can actually fight back." The holy artifact quest is literally also just you showing up to heal a group of stereotypes and stand in the background while the paladin and demon hunter handles everything and banter each other.

>>50066259
aw, i was hoping the priest campaign would have some spriest shit in it for GRIMDERP and EVILPOWERSLOL

>>50065957
This. Nobles from Stormwind are more Jewish than Gnomes.

>>50066221
Just use them like barbarians that conquer and raid. But that is a setting where getting attached by human armies of knight and men at arms will usually also just result is just as much rape and pillage as when orcs attack, because that's just how people used to roll.

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>>50066162
>Vrykul are walking, talking "No True Scotsman" tropes.

Bingo. Someone tell Blizzard that Bethesda beat that horse to death in 2011.

>>50066238
>Orcs don't exist, you can make them whatever the fuck you want
If you're the GM, of course. You could make them into flaming lispy fruits, too. What I can't do is rewrite how the layman thinks of orcs, and the WoW/Elderscrolls depiction seems to be winning that race.

>>50066286
Spriest artifact is great though, it's literally just old god douchebag Jesus telling you to go fuck up the dragons because they're weak now and you could totally take them, or go tell Odyn he's a bitch cus he's a bitch.

>>50066326
Thal'kiel is the best talking artifact desu
>ywn adventure across Azeroth while your felguard and talking skull friend banter each other about how much they hate things

>>50066322
The layman's idea of an orc is "big, green and violent"

Warcraft orcs are big, green and violent, Elder Scrolls orcs are big, green and violent, Warhammer orcs are big, green and violent, Tolkien orcs are small, greyish and violent.

>>50066259
God damn it, and here I was hoping disc priests would finally be allowed to rain holy fire on their foes

Sucks how the only holy damage spec in WoW is a melee spec

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>>50066008
Plot armor

>>50066356
Is demonology fun? I have never ever bothered with pet classes.

Thought about making a warlock.

>>50066365
Disc priest are healers.

Healers that heal by dealing damage.

>>50066213
So therefore what they did against other races are just friendly little pranks and therefore you can't consider them enemies?

>>50066375
It's... a busy spec, which is something I consider good (which is one the reasons I hate ret's current iteration). You're always doing something: either generating soul shards, summoning demons, or empowering said demons, which, admittedly, is somewhat dull. Still better than having downtime, though.

>>50066375
it's very fun, but only after you get to 110
Thal'kiel's Consumption and being able to actually stack haste turns it into a fun little minigame of trying to squeeze in extra globals between your main cooldowns

the only pet that matters is your felguard anyway, the rest are effectively just DoTs that you can buff and aren't wasted when the target dies

>>50066461
I meant to add

if you're not gonna 100 boost a warlock, level it in affliction with the Supremacy talent to get a doomguard, it's way easier than dicking around in demonology or playing boring ass destro

>>50066445
Well, no, obviously not, but the reason why they can be humans who are wrong is because they are in direct opposition with other humans, thereby having those other humans be right


I made an incorrect statement, humans are allowed to be wrong. The correct statement would be something along the lines of "Any conflict in the Warcraft setting that involves humans will always have major human characters on the morally correct side. If this is not so, retcons or future events will make it so the side the major human players were on turns out to be morally correct all along"

>>50066322

Seriously? Cry more, faggot.

>I want everyone to think like me!

Fuck off..

>>50066488
While that is true, Horde has a more "we can get away with this morally objectionable thing because we are fighting against something even worse". Forsaken and their obsession with plaguing everything is one good example and their tendency to make horrid abominations and other nightmare engines that run on nightmare fuel, but the Horde barely gives a fuck as long as they are not in direct opposition. Another example are the Dragonmaw during Cata where the sadistic dragon hunters (the ones that turned against the black dragons) are given a pass even though they are one of the more infamous enemies of both Alliance and Horde because Garrosh said so and everybody had to roll with it. Goblins and their complete disregard for safety, morality and working ethics are also ignored only because they actually manage to get things done.

Point being that while Alliance has the problem of "they are always correct if they are part of the Alliance proper" the Horde has a "We can get away with it because we are the good guys and they are worse than us" problem.

>>50066185
>We're all manlets to her
>She doesnt like manlets

>>50066577
Yeah, and it sucks.

It made sense for the Horde to be morally objectionable prior to Cata, the Horde was weak, it needed every advantage it could get, even if that meant accepting the existence of the Forsaken Apothecaries and all the crimes against nature they commit.

But after Cata, when they had a full naval fleet, a full air fleet, and a massive army that was spawned out of nowhere, they lost that excuse, they no longer needed to resort to objectionable practices just to keep up, but rather than cutting back, they instead got even worse

>>50066716

Catcalysm still makes me upset. How the fuck the horde managed to suddenly pull out an entire army and navy from its ass? Especially after the losses of WotLK.

>b-b-but the g-goblins

Fuck the goblins, we managed to save ONE(1) shipload of goblins during the same expansion pack and that somehow was enough to rape one of the most popular, scenic and quiet zones into a meme reference laden horde inisgnia on the world map. And somehow they apparently had the time to build everything within months.

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>>50067033
>b-b-but the g-goblins

So the Horde is up to eyeballs in debt? Shit costs money, and Orcs in Orgrimmar really didn't have much in the resource or gold department. Garrosh may have been ocunting on a successful conquest of Kalimdor to make enough to pay off the Goblins a la Julius Cesar.

Coming soon, face the greedy might of Goblin Trade-Princes! In World of Warcraft's latest Expansion, Wrath of the Debt Collectors!

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>>50066488

You don't say...

>>50067087
Which ends when some random orc grabs Gallywix by his leg and uses him as a drumstick

>>50067244
Gallywix canonically fist-fought Garrosh to a standstill

>>50067347
What
Fucking WHAT!?
Garrosh is a fucking raw strength power house only trumped by the tauren in terms of pure physical might, how the hell can a fat fucking goblin of all things not just get stomped by a 7 foot tall muscle pile?

>>50067347
Goddamnit Blizzard, what in the actual fuck? Some fat fuck living a lazy, indulgent life can fight a musclebound tower of murder to a draw?

I know goblins are supposed to be deceptively strong fot their size, but this is a bit too much.

>>50067391
>>50067407
Garrosh beat down Gallywix's mech first, so he was injured and probably exhuasted from it. But even so, Gallywix fended off an orcish combat prodigy by himself, unarmed.

The novels are fucking stupid, and frustratingly canon

>>50067455
That's still so fucking stupid. Even if goblins are supposed to be condensed muscle and about as strong as a human, but Gallywix is 97,9% fat and the rest is hot air, not to mention that Garrosh could just pick him up and re-purpose the trade prince as a pile driver and his tiny ass could do nothing about it.

>>50067455
Ok, that makes a bit more sense, but it's still glaringly moronic.

>>50065181
Technically, she wasn't really raped by orcs, but forced to repeatedly mate with her consort to produce dragon mounts for the Horde.

Also, anybody else find the fact that Alex actually ate Nekros weird. It somehow feels out of character, especially when I'm so used of thinking the "elf with horns and big fat tittied" form as her "standard" form.

>>50067391
http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Blank_Scroll
It was a vision and a magical item.

>>50067614
That's because you got used to the form you feel comfortable with.

>>50067455

Gallywix used to be an incredibly resourceful and dirty street fighter and garrosh used to sit in Garadar and sigh a lot.

I think experience matters in this one too.


>>50067614
>>50067702

cause everyone feels comfortable with a big fat tittied elf form

her dragon form wearing cart sized jewellery is pretty stupid though

>>50067806
She's the red dragon queen, it would be weird if she wasn't vaguely Tiamat-ish

>>50067806
I like her dragon form, it's not supposed to be threatening. She's got people for that.

>>50067614
>Technically, she wasn't really raped by orcs, but forced to repeatedly mate with her consort
As much as someone people will hate me for invoking tvtropes.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeByProxy
Also, being made to do non-consensual sex still counts as being raped.

>>50066107
Warlock campaign is basically everything I wanted to do as a warlock. I took over an army of demons on a Legion portal world, then spat in the face of a dreadlord and enslaved the Eredar Twins in preparation for fucking up said dreadlord.

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>>50067407
>>50067455
>>50067492

Garrosh made the mistake of cornering a rat with nothing to lose. Strong or not, that's dumb move on Garrosh's part.

>>50067170
Well, she was warned.

>>50069462
I think he's simply talking about semantics. Still rape, but it's not like she was fucked by little orc dicks for months.

>>50066716
Everyone was weak as fuck.
The alliance had the Scourge and Legion running wild in their lands.
They were either destroyed like Lordaron,Dalaran or Quel'Thalas or forced into total war to survive the massive waves of "fuck you" coming south. All that while still rebuilding from the second war against the Horde.
The only human realms getting away without much blood letting were the Yiffs and Kul Tiras.
The Yiffs were then fucked up by the curse and Kul Tiras had the glorious idea to invade Durotar. Which led to the loss of their navy and most of their army.

Meanwhile the Night Elves were fucking strong, before the Legion rampaged through their lands.
And their retardism which costed them Cenarius + an army.
They suffered massive losses.

I completely agree that the Horde was weak, but when the Legion came around the Alliance took the first hit and suffered for it.

>>50071992
Night Elfs were hippies living off past glories. They weren't a strong military force, just a bunch of park rangers who had to wake up the real men to even have a chance at saving their dumb asses.
Even then it took the Horde, Humans and Elves working together to SLOW the Legion long enough for Malfy to lay a trap sacrificing the most precious and powerful thing the Elves had.
Afterwards, they were even weaker that they couldn't stop Horde from raping their forests some more. Just keep it at a standstill until Cata gave Horde plot armor to fuck up most of Ashenvale.

>>50071992
Gilneas was actually totally fine until Cata when the Curse and the Forsaken made it over the wall

>>50067614
>Also, anybody else find the fact that Alex actually ate Nekros weird. It somehow feels out of character,
yes, a dragon being competent and succeeding at something is incredibly weird

new thread because the post that reaches the bump limit apparently doesn't bump
>>50075000
>>50075000
>>50075000