Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>>49995816
>Warsong and Shattered Hand were full on warfare, due to Ogres (which likely in original universe got defeated in rebellion of Kargath + retaliatory campaign of Grom and likely Blackhand; and likely their final Emperor was not born in MU).
I like to think that the reason the Warsong didn't cross the portal during the first two wars was because they were still finishing off the Gorian Empire
it's not canon, but it makes sense

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So what stopped him from hijacking the Forsaken back in WotLK?

>>49997181
the Helm of Domination seems to only be able to control undead that were created by Arthas or his followers

also the Forsaken seem to have developed a consciousness that prevents them from simply being controlled by necromancers

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Thunderlord is my favorite leather transmog, minus the stupid belt and hat. Female rogues and druids (and even monks) look so good in it. Trolls and orcs especially of course.

>>49997409
my DH mog is an unholy combination of Thunderlord and Orgrimmar because I have no good looking actual leather armor

>>49997463

The pants, gloves, boots and chest are good base items

So, did Dindu imply we were heading into the Twisting Nether?

>>49998435
probably to Argus to save the Army of the Light

Threadly reminder that Lord Garithos did nothing wrong.

>>49997098
How are the trolls faring? Last time I checked the lore nearly all were on the verge of extermination, specially the great empires remnants.

>>49997119
If we presume that Grom killed his Ogre Emperor (who had one head and thus not Ogre-Magi) before Kargath started his rebellion (as Blizzard forgot that Kargath was clearly older in Warcfraft 2) when next one was on the throne (the one from Highmaul, forgot his name), then I presume that in MU Kargath's rebellion was more successful in killing Ogre Emperor, which helped in crippling Gorian Empire so hard that Orcs could spend most of the time in Nagrand, while Ogres fell under control of the Gronn.

>>49997196

Yeah, their racial ability is breaking out of mind control. Not being minions any more is their whole deal.

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Gas the Alliance. Gas the Horde. Enslave the Scourge.

Forsaken forever.

>>49998730
fuck Sylvanas
Putress did nothing wrong

>>49998730
Neo-Scourge strong.

>>49998781
>fuck Sylvanas
Dear god, yes please.

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>>49998802
>>49998730
Forsaken lack the og scourge's bro-aspect.

>>49998831
She is a rotting carrion whose lukewarm cunt is probably oozing with necrotic pus, not your waifu.

>>49998869
Anon, I'd be willing to listen to you if you didn't have such objectively shitty taste.

>>49998869
>not tapping necro pussy
>normies.jpg

>>49998869
>og scourge's bro-aspect
T. Thassarian.

>>49998892
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NncSTz5V9G4

>>49998911

>barely gets to second base

Not even lewd

>>49998654
Bad. Darkspear trolls literally don't have a racial leader right now.

Only race in the game to not have one, the troll hate is strong in blizzard.

>>49999051
The Orcs have a racial leader?

>>49999567
Saurfang, Thrall, AU Duratan...they at least have some options, yeah.

>>49999814

Thrall a shit.

Saurfang is literally the PERFECT orcish warrior, embodiment of all the martial honor shit.

>>50000016
He really is. He'd be the best Warchief, if only he'd actually step up to it.

>>49998869

> Forsaken lack the og scourge's bro-aspect.

That was retconned away. The Arthas book even cut out Arthas calling Kel'thuzad his friend. Nowadays, it looks like every major Scourge commanders except for KT (who was threatened into serving anyway) was a complaining lackey.

>>49998724

And does breaking free from the LK automatically get you that?

>>50000157
That's not really a retcon, so much as a detail skipped over.

Besides, Blizzard has shown that they pick and choose when they acknowledge the canonical relevance of novels.

>>49998634

Reminder that Garithos is a forced villain who was only in TFT to make the Blood Elves enemies of the Alliance.

>>50000016
He is known to be the BEST at wielding axes in all of Azeroth, and you have to duel him in an arms warrior quest

>>50000324
>He is known to be the BEST at wielding axes in all of Azeroth, and you have to duel him in an arms warrior quest

There is a lot of trolls that would likely want to dispute that. But then, trolls use axes differently to WoW warriors so I'm not sure it counts.

>>50000324
He's also well-aware of his own shortcomings and surprisingly diplomatically-minded

He has every trait a good warchief needs

>>50000211

Except that it's not just that bit in the Arthas book. There's also Arthas getting triggered at KT telling him he has a role in a Ner'zhul's plans, talking about how he has contempt for his Undead subjects in the Foight From Lordaeron, and dreamstabbing Ner'zhul.

Outside of the Arthas book you have Road to Damnation and and the Naxxramas trailer having KT threatened into the Scourge, Anub'arak saying he was dragged into the Scourge, Arthas plotting for the Death Knights to get clobbered and his commanders to get whooped.

>>49999814
Eitrigg too. I really hope we get sub race options in the future because I'd love to play a gray orc.

>>50000484
>>50000211
>>50000157
I'm pretty sure that, aside from that tiny bit of friendliness between Kel'thuzad and Arthas right before the latter sailed off to Northrend again, no Scourge character has ever shown any affection for another (up until Thassarian and Koltira, and even that was explicitly frowned upon).

>>50002350
When you pretend to join the Scourge in the one questline in Zul'drak, they do all seem awfully nice.

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>>49998730
>IMPLYING MORTAL INSECTS SHOULD HAVE ANY SAY

>>50002665
and then Arthas lets you kill Brokuru because "lmao I thought it'd be funny, next time it's your ass in the fryer"

>>50002665
All are equal in undeath.

>>50002350

Arthas: I would not let my subjects be slaughtered by this rabble.

>>50003229
Oh totally.

Except for the Lich Kings.

And the Banshee Queens.

And the highlords, and the barons, the dukes, the thanes, the lords, the ladies, the blood queen and blood princes, the overlords, the grand apothecaries, the archmages, the crypt lords, the commanders and all the other military ranks.

But other than that, totally equal.

>>50002665
Given the way we see the Scourge act literally anywhere else, I can only assume that Drakuru ran a more relaxed department. Of course, since Drakuru is so fond of you (it really seemed like he wanted to be the Kel'Thuzad to your Arthas) it might just be that everyone is kissing up to the new hotness.

>>50000190
Absolutely not
The Agamands are sign of that, just cause you break free doesn't mean your free forever.

Honestly it has less to do with the method and more to do with the individuals. Only strong willed people are forsaken because otherwise they couldn't be forsaken (at least first generation/pre-bolvar).

>>50003879
>inb4 an independent ghoul/zombie who was so weak-willed in life the Lich King couldn't get him to DO anything
>because you can't bend a will that doesn't exist, or something like that
>world's laziest undead, literally just sits there
>probably doesn't even realize he's undead

>>50002350
>>50003752

I point all of you to TFT's Undead Campaign, where Arthas saves some Crypt Fiends and gets a Shade. Who both tell Arthas that they're sticking witb him. This is while Ner'zhul lost his grip on the undead in capital.

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>>50003879

I loved this quest line so much. The Forsaken even call him "The Lich" as an honorific. He was suppose to teach necromancy too.

>>50003926
>Bloody NEET ghouls shitting up my /rNECROk/

>>50004044
And Arthas acts protective of them.

Plus, nowadays it seems like a commonly accepted thing that Anub'arak hated serving the Scourge but I never once got that impresion in TFT.

Saaaay, if you were to run a Warcraft campaign, set after TFT and largely ignoring WoW, how bro-tier would you make the Scourge? Would Arthas remain the bantz-god instead of a saturday morning cartoon villain?

Would you allow your players to play as members of the Scourge trying to regain control of the Forsaken?

>>50003752
all undead are equal, but some undead are more equal than others

>>50005636
>tfw I'd be tempted to have even mindless undead seem like they're enjoying themselves

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>>49998730
Forsaken a best

>>50005636
I would make the Lich King split-personality Skeletor

Sometimes Arthas is in charge, sometimes Ner'zhul, both have different (evil) plans that occasionally run against each other

Meanwhile Kel'Thuzad is the one actually running the scourge, because the Lich King went a bit crazy after Arthas put the helmet on

>>49998654
They're straight fucked. They've lost Vol'jin, their only character with any sort of development. They've got basically no leadership material with any kind of screen time, and they effectively don't exist as far as Legion is concerned.

Unless Legion has a surprise Troll patch in the middle, there's probably no chance we see the Darkspear for this expansion cycle.

>>50007932
>Unless Legion has a surprise Troll patch in the middle,
>implying 7.3 won't be fel Zandalari attacking the Broken Isles

>>50008050
>fel Zandalari
>implying Rokhan won't go around recruiting the other Trolls, including the now-utterly-broken Zandalari
>implying we won't see troll armies storming the Legion's strongholds

But then I'm also the guy last thread who was hoping for all the neutral races to get mobilized from Mogu to Murlocs and everyone in between.

>>50008050
Wouldn't surprise me. Course, I'd prefer it if the next encounter with the Zandalari would have us siding with Rastakhan to face against Zul.

It's not gonna happen, but I can dream.

>>50007932
It's WoW... there's always going to be a Troll patch.

>>50008664
except in Wrath and WoD
>rip Drakkari raid
>rip Vol'jin being relevant as Warchief

>>50008753
I wish we'd gotten that Drakkari raid. It was in development and everything.

Oh well, at least Trolls are still more plot relevant than Panderans and Gnomes.

>>50005636

>Plus, nowadays it seems like a commonly accepted thing that Anub'arak hated serving the Scourge but I never once got that impresion in TFT.

A bio for the Crypt Lords said they joined the Lich King without getting forced.

>Saaaay, if you were to run a Warcraft campaign, set after TFT and largely ignoring WoW, how bro-tier would you make the Scourge? Would Arthas remain the bantz-god instead of a saturday morning cartoon villain?

1. Like they were in WC3.

2. Arthas shouldn't have been the Lich King instead of a piece of it.

>Would you allow your players to play as members of the Scourge trying to regain control of the Forsaken?

Sure.

>>50005636
Would probably run it with the players as an incarnation of the Horsemen actually, only answerable to the LK. Depending on how it goes they could either go on jobs with Arthas or serve Arthas the LK by going around and clearing out Azul'Nerub or recruiting Vykrul and similar tasks. Maybe going to the tomb of Sargaras and poking around to find out what Gul'Dan was up to and similar things.

And yes Arthas would be bringing the bants with him. or one piece of the LK which would be a completely alien existence and closer to the ancients and wild gods than who it had been previously.

>>50009978
>playing a TTG as a merry band of death knights going around doing the Lich King's bidding
sounds pretty fun desu

>>50009395
blame Titan (or Overwatch I guess...)

>>50005636
>Plus, nowadays it seems like a commonly accepted thing that Anub'arak hated serving the Scourge but I never once got that impresion in TFT.
His probably most famous line in TFT is "agree implies I had a choise". He submitted to the Lich King because he had to, and makes that pretty clear. I don't think he really hates being undead, but it's more because he's resigned to his fate. He's serving the Lich King whether he wants it or not, so why bother complaining?

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>>50010143
Yeah. He's making the best out of a bad situation. His quotes with Arthas in Heroes of the Storm and death quotes in WoW indicate he's really not too fond of the Scourge.

>>50010268
What's he say in his banter with Arthas? I don't play enough to hear those lines.
I do like his banter with Zagara, the Zerg queen,
"Eheheh... nice.. legs..."
To which she responds, "Eugh. Creep"

>>50010308
when you kill Arthas while playing Anub'arak he says "FINALLY I AM FREE OF YOU"

>>50010308
>>50010315
and while we're on the topic, best HotS line
http://rpboyer15.github.io/sounds-of-the-storm/vo/vo_hero/Gazlowe/Gazlowe%20-%20Default/Gazlowe_KillUther00.mp3

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>>49997098
>Warcraft
>lore

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>>50010347
>Bubblehearth
I miss those days.
At least the Garrison Hearth has a faster cast than the bubble lasts.

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>>50010347

>>50010353
It's no sillier than 40k lore.

>>50010355
>tfw Glyph of Righteous Retreat got removed in Legion even though it was one of the silly cosmetic ones there wasn't really a reason to remove

>>50010691
It's not removed, it's built in now.

>>50010143

>His probably most famous line in TFT is "agree implies I had a choise".

He doesn't say that. And the WC3 Crypt Lord bio says they sold out to the Lich King. Also, WC3 established Ner'zhul looked for dark souls for his army (like Kel'thuzad and Arthas) and Anub'arak was a Nerubian (who were villainous in WC3) king.

>>50011131
>He doesn't say that
technically the line is ""agreed" implies choice, death knight"

>>50011030
>the most hated combo in the game becomes baseline
>Path of Frost reducing fall damage gets completely trashed
wew

>>50011140

Not in TFT.

>>50007932
As far as individual tribes go, both the Darkspear and the horde aligned Amani do well.
The unaligned a lot less so.

>>50011287
huh, he doesn't

I know someone said that at some point but now I have no clue who and when

>>50011287
>>50011441

It's from "Road to Damnation" the short story that was released around the release of Naxx that had Kel'thuzad's backstory.

>Anub'arak: The nerubian race, yes. Then the master came. As his influence spread, we made war upon him, foolishly believing we stood a chance. Many of us were slain and raised into undeath. In life I was a king. Today I am a crypt lord.
>Kel'Thuzad: In return for immortality, you agreed to serve him. Remarkable.
>Anub'arak: 'Agreed' implies choice.

>>50011534

The short story and Naxxramas trailer have it that Kel'thuzad was threatened into the Scourge. Which is weak since WC3 established him as a a loyal servant who joined after getting impressed by Ner'zhul's power.WoW went around saying all the camaderie we saw in WC3 was all a fib or not there.

>>50011663
Apparently bro-tier evil was too confusing for WoW's target audience.

>>50011663

I took it he just realized there how there is no turning back and the weight of his decision.

>>50011663
Kel tried to bitch out at the last second but then realized it was cool afterwards

it's like bungee jumping, but with skeletons

>>50011680

So was the Lich King not actually being Arthas. We couldn't have that.

>>50011763

He was threatened with dying and getting turned undead.

>>50011837

It wasn't needed. We already had his WC3 backstory.

>>50012403
>It wasn't needed. We already had his WC3 backstory.
"spooky Uther is fucking with grain"
great backstory

>>50012414

>WoW newb alert

>>50012403

>He was threatened with dying and getting turned undead.


So he knew there is no dancing back from here. Dude already traveled alone to the north pole on the advice of a creepy voice in his head and he was already obsessed with death.

>>50012454
before patch 1.11, Kel'thuzad's backstory was "school shootings are hard when reliable personal firearms are less then 20 years old and only belong to dwarves, so necromancy"

>>50012557
eh, he was more like frankenstein doing mad experiments.

>>50013003
To be fair the biggest problem with Frankenstein's creation was that it was extremely deep in the uncanny valley and thus spooked everyone around it, this lead to it being mistreated and becoming an actual monster.

>>50012557

>WoW newb alert

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>>49997409
The Keeper set is great for monks.

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>>50013448
slootified version.

>>50013038
yeah. The part of the story where he goes into felix's house and talks to the old man was incredibly cool. Same with him saving the swiss loli.

>>50006416
forsaken are literally communists

>>50014474
Stalin wasn't as whiny as Sylvanas is though.

>>50014474
figuratively

>>50010308
Getting hitted on by a rotting beetle is gotta be traumatizing.

>>50014485
Yes he was. The whole of East Berlin was basically a giant whine about how unfair the allies were.

>>50014474
So who is the allies and fascists then? Because if Forsaken are Commies, then Alliance are... uh, it works, weirdly enough

>>50015876
>Because if Forsaken are Commies, then Alliance are...
Poland

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I hope Hiro implements a word filter for the words "literally", "dindu", "did nothing wrong" and "was/were a mistake". Maybe then we'll finally be able to have discussions where people elaborate on what the fuck they're talking about.

>>50016632
You're delusional if you believe that a mere word filter will stop people from using them desu senpai.

>>50016650

This tbqhbbqfampai

>>50016632
Doing literally nothing wrong was a literally mistake.

>>50016632

I love forsaken art so much. The whole tragedy of it is just fantastic.

>>50016749
Sadly current forsaken writing is so awful it hurts.

>>50016771
I recently did the new Tirisfal glades and silverpine forest quests. The TG ones were not too bad if a little bleh but I didnt really get through most of the SF ones because of it.

I missed the old ones.

>>50015876
if you assume that the Forsaken are the Soviet Union, then Gilneas is the Baltic states and therefore the Alliance is the Axis

>>50017612
But then who is Anduin, and who are the Allies?

>>50017874
>But then who is Anduin,
Karl Donitz
>and who are the Allies?
the Horde

>>50016771
>>50016816
I liked the lonely rich guy who wanted a Murloc pet/friend.

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>>50016749
For you, anon.

>>50016771
>>50016816
>>50018051

The Forsaken really are wasted potential. We could have had a case of a society of undead who aren't ridiculously hostile to humanity and other livings. But nooo, we just had to have a Scourge stand-in.

>>50016632

You totally don't look triggered.

>>50018253

I like it. It reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IMyTQZVz6U

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>>50018362
Another pic, for good measure. The Forsaken, like almost everything else in WoW, were at their best when they were just trying to survive and find their place in the world.

The irony is, Sylvanas has none of the traits that made her faction interesting and sympathetic.

>>50011663
Yep.

I ran a Warcraft game in which players were a Darkfallen and a Vrykul serving the Scourge and trying to take a minor human kingdom.

While the undead were pretty evil, yes, they were pretty bro-tier with them. It was comfy as fuck

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>Forsaken
>Redeemable in any way, shape or form

>>50018491
I wish there was more lore about the Darkfallen
as much as WoW recycles every fantasy trope, there are very few vampires

>>50018440

I will say that I approve of the new forsaken architecture.

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>>50018525

I just wanna serve my queen.

>>50018525
I actually heard that in an earlier point in development, the Vrykul would have been vampires and not just vikings that sometimes practice dark magickqs. I kind of wonder what that would have been like.

>>50018576
it would make the whole "sleeping for hundreds of years" thing make a lot more sense, and they'd have a better reason to join the Lich King than Ymiron being a cunt

>>50018567
just find a female blood elf blood death knight. Almost the same thing

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When does he get redemption?

>>50018955
He's dead, Jim.

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>>50018922

Did someone say death knights?

>>50019105

So was Illidindu.

The Alliance is the faction for cucks.

The Horde is the faction for Dindu Nuffins.

When can I join the Legion

>>50019764
>joining the Legion
>"let's save the universe by destroying the universe!"

You'd be better off settling down in a nice cozy Murloc camp.

>>50019792

But I support rebuilding the badly written universe with fire

>>50019820
How are you gonna rebuild with Fel fire?

It's not exactly solid.

>>50019792
With ten BILLION of your buddies to back you up with their absurd aggro radii.

>>50019832

Doesn't matter. It'll free Warcraft of cucks and Dindu Nuffins. You'd dig Orcs and Undead who aren't Dindu Nuffins don't you?

>>50019866
But there won't be any Orcs or Undead if you destroy the universe! There won't be anything if you destroy the universe!

Only a yawning, endless void.

So I thought you all were exaggerating when you mocked Xe'ra's "Illidan was a good boi, he dindu nuffin" whitewash of a questline.

I was wrong. What an utter load of steaming shit this is. If there ever was an absolute, undeniable low point of Warcraft writing, this is it.

>>50019930
it's just a prank bro

>>50019930
>implying Xe'ra isn't Kil'Jaeden in disguise

He loves appearing as whatever you worship most and deceiving you into doing bad things. How do you think he got to Ner'zhul?

>>50019147
cute

>>50020093
>You are now imagining Kil'jaeden in drag, disguised as Rulkan
>You are now imagining Kil'jaeden coming up with increasingly convoluted reasons as to why he won't go to bed with Ner'zhul
>You are now imagining Ner'zhul coming up with something much worse than the Lich King and the Scourge as a way to relieve the anger of being cockblocked and blueballed by Kil'jaeden disguised as his mate

>>50020093
I really, really want Xe'ra to be Kil'Jaeden. Who launched the whole attack on the Exodar to kill the one Naaru who could have revealed his plan.
If Blizzard is actually serious about the dogshit that Xe'ra is spouting, then it's worse than even what they did to Kerrigan in StarCraft.

>>50020736

Why would Elunes Tears activate it though?
If the whole reason Green Waifu was CORRUPTED was to make a shitty KJ meme I might be done with Blizzard

>>50020861
Elune is Kil'Jaeden, too.

>>50020861
The Corrupted Tear of Elune + Xavius + Emerald Nightmare combo was so specifically tuned to work on Ysera that Noz or Alex would have shrugged it off and aged him to death/had him sent to jail with no further issues.

It relies so heavily on Ysera's inherent physical connection to the Dream that no other target would have succumbed, save another Green Dragon.

It worked, essentially, because it attacked her weak point for massive damage.

>>50020873
But I thought Elune was a Naaru and/or their creator and/or a Light-flavored reskin of a Void Lord.

>>50020885
Everything is Kil'Jaeden.
Elune is Kil'Jaeden.
Ysera is Kil'Jaeden.
Xe'ra is Kil'Jaeden.
Those mana biscuits the mage just summoned? Also Kil'Jaeden.

>>50020736
>>50020093

>Still expecting Lore to not end up as junk

>>50020959
the gameplay is literal pigshit.

>>50020917
But wouldn't that mean Kil'Jaeden is a dreadlord?

Admittedly a pointless distinction, but still.

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>>50020917
Your chapter master is also Kil'Jaeden!

>>50020974
While trickery and manipulation is the Nathrezim's whole thing as a species, K'J seems to also be on board with their way of doing things. Maybe that's why he has wings and no other Eredar does.

>>50021004
But that also means The Emperor is Kil'Jaeden.
Wait.
No.
The Emperor IS SARGERAS

>>50021014
But if the Emperor is Sargeras, are the Chaos Gods the Old Gods or the Void Lords?

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>>50021037
We did not take this into consideration. We could not take this into consideration. The truth is complex for we are mortal men.

>>50021004
Kyras' rant >>>>>>>>> Legion voice acting.

>>50021160
SHAN RONIR
GO KISS A TAUREN

>>50021220
What does Shan Ronir even mean?

>>50021417
something about foreigners I assume

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>>50018576
>>50018602
There is one vrykul vampire in Legion.

>>50022745
>Lucard
bravo Blizzard

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Couldn't Elisande have just scryed on the rest of the world and seen that people were headed for the Broken Isles to help?

Why agree to Gul'dan's terms?

>>50023094
elves are sluts for demon dick
the Well of Eternity was a mistake

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>>50019887
Sargeras' plan is supposed to involve rebuilding the universe from the ground up when he's done burning it to the ground. It's all about fixing the underlying flaws of the universe, but you can't do that without dismantling the whole thing and starting from scratch.

>>50023094
>confused
>iop
Aren't these terms synonymous?

>>50023366
Nah, they're quite often sure of exactly what they're doing.

They're just quite often wrong.

>>50023094
A few possibilities:
-They assumed everything and everyone was already gone, seeing as the last thing any of them saw before the shield went up was the world around them disappearing.
-The shield prevents scrying inwards and outwards.
-Elisande was drunk off power and wanted to keep her little kingdom all to herself, but didn't have a choice when the Legion showed up.

>>50021037
Chaos Gods can't get out of the Warp, so they are Void Lords.
Which would make Old Gods Demon Princes, and Void Lords like Dimensius the All-Devouring into Greater Demons, while Voidwalkers are Lesser Demons.

Ding dong the witch is dead!
Varian approves of this execution.
I'll admit he was a proper villain.

https://youtu.be/MnSpispAP0M

>>50024512
as stupid as the Illijerking in this expansion is, the wings flying up behind Gul'dan's back is still cool as fuck

I wish I could hate Illidan, but Xer'a isn't his fault

>>50024541
Yeah for a minute I thought it was Gully boy suddenly getting demon wings.

>>50024512

That little reprisal of the Black Temple theme was actually pretty well placed

>>50024712
the little callback music fills in Legion are pretty good
there's a nice one from Cata (BoT I think) in Eye of Azshara after you kill the first 4 bosses

What if we find that fel crystal that Kael Thas had embedded in his chest, and we find a way to revive him too?

They really did handle iconic characters very poorly in BC

>>50025113

How? I think it was really good of them to let them killed off, instead of having shitty comicbook deaths.

Kael was a betrayer and a junkie and his story was over with his death.

>>50025113
>the crystal that showed us the invasion of Karazhan is actually Kael'thas' crystal
>Khadgar pitches it into his chest of Apexis crystals, elemental runes, tomes of chaos and Blackhand's arm
>QUEL'DANAS WAS MERELY A SETBACK

>>50025132

> Kael was a betrayer and a junkie and his story was over with his death.

Meanwhile Illidindu is back.

>>50025204
>Blackhand's arm
>In a chest
>Implying Khadgar isn't using it as a stylish night light so that he won't trip on misplaced chairs on his way to a midnight snack

>>50025239

Sadly. He shouldnt have come back either.

>>50025279
>not enchanting it to act like Thing from the Addams family and run around Dalaran spooking cute girls so Khadgar can comfort them
the possibilities are literally endless

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>>50025347
While I believe that younger Medivh could do such stuff, Khadgar is less believable to use Blackhand's Arm to create such opportunities.

>>50025385
>run new Kara
>after the Opera Hall there are trash mobs called Medivas that have two spells: Firelands Portal and Purify
>later on there's a bunch of Ghostbusters that are exactly a 50/50 split between male and female
whoever designed the instance are giant fucking memelords and it's hilarious

>>50024512
So who is standing there at the end? Liadrin, Khadgar and Vereesa?

Khadgar is the best character in the game 2bh

>>50025438

Turalyon is going to come back and we'll have the Khadgar, Illidan and Turalyon superfriends versus the Legion.

>>50025437
in either 7.2 or later 7.1, Tyrande, Liadrin and Vereesa show up in Suramar to give the Nightbourne an elftervention

>>50025534
Strangely I wondered why Halduron wasn't leading the BEs. He is the highest ranked BE on the Broken isles,

>>50025578
smoking up in Trueshot Lodge while Vereesa does all the work probably

Liadrin is the only competent, living blood elf other than Lor'themar anyway

>>50025600
You forgot Rommath.

>>50025920
>jaina's doormat

>>50026813
>Mistaking Rommath for Aethas
Are all elves looks the same for you?

>>50027765
they don't?

>>50023247
It's not so much rebuilding as hoping that "life finds a way" and just evolves naturally, but without voidlords getting their grubby hands all over everything.

So a lot of people don't like pandas, but does anyone think the implications of how a culture would have developed with the threat of sha possession? Imagine how a society would have to adapt to make itself work when feeling any strong negative emotion has a good chance of getting you possessed by an entity with no aim but causing trouble.

It's not even the pandaren, actually. The mogu are a bunch of bad dudes, but they also weirdly seemed to keep themselves in check. You see them get mad and be arrogant and so on, but they also seem to kind of keep a decent hold on themselves? Like they always tried to be cold and disciplined and in control. Maybe they made themselves become that way, to keep the sha off them, the same way the pandaren made themselves become jolly inner-peace boozebears. The jinyu were all about tranquility, too. Even the hozen seemed to have a sort of a lighthearted, don't-hold-on-to-anything-too-hard feeling to them. All might have been anti-sha developments. I think it's interesting to think about how having real supernatural consequences to certain patterns of thought or feeling would have effects on a society's traditions and ideals and behaviour and so on.

>>50029492
After 10,000 years of that I'm surprised Pandaren even CAN feel anger anymore. Or fear. Or hatred. Or despair. Or pride. Or doubt.

I mean, ten millennia of social engineering where even talking about the bad feelings can let the bad things in?

>>50029492
I think most people that hate Pandaren and MoP are, most likely, cowadoody kids that think everything must be obvious, 40k-style grimdark and edgy to be taken seriously. A closer look at the life of the average Pandaria denizen reveals one subtly hellish life, because if you are anything other than indifferent or a Pollyanna-like optimist, demonic pigeon poop will appear out of nowhere and bite you in the ass.

Afraid of the oncoming Mantid swarm?
Angry at your nephew for leaving his toys strewn around the living room?
Are you a xenophobe, and an airship full of child-enslaving, demon-summoning orcs just crashed into your backyard?
Think your spouse is cheating on you, but you have neither proof, nor the courage to confront him/her?
Your kid just got accepted for a paid internship in the Lorewalkers, making enough to get his own place and Dragon Turtle, and he's barely reached adulthood?
Simply stubbed your toe on a half-buried mogu pedestal?

Tough luck mate, can that shit in and keep on doing whatever you were doing, or we'll have to call the Shado-Pan in.

>>50030161
>you can't even be proud of your accomplished children lest you unleash the Sha

Truly the most heinous deeds of the Old Gods.

>>50030161
>Pandaria is a horrifying 1984-style dystopia of people reporting each other to the Shado-Pan any time something bad happens
I wish they'd shown this

>>50030413
Well, that's why Shaohao failed to get rid of Sha of Pride and why it was in Vale of Eternal Blossom.
>Pandaren forgot there was Sha of Pride, because it was partly responsible for hiding Panderia, which is why its parts were not appearing like those of other Sha.

Then again, Wandering Isle Pandaren can have all those feelings.

>>50031222
>Fong, close the doors, hide the kids and ready the messenger eagle, quick!
>What? Why? What's going on?
>I just heard about it...
>About what?
>Today is school report day!
>...oh, fuck
>And the neighbour's kid spent the whole semester playing hooky
>I'll just send the message already, maybe they'll manage to arrive before the crops are ruined

>>50031251
>Then again, Wandering Isle Pandaren can have all those feelings.

Anyone, including Pandaria-born individuals, can have those feelings, as long as they are not had in Pandaria soil. The problem was with the land itself (or, rather, the chunk-o'-Old God within it), not the people.

>>50031580
>>Fong, close the doors, hide the kids and ready the messenger eagle, quick!
>>What? Why? What's going on?
>>I just heard about it...
>>About what?
>>Today is school report day!
>>...oh, fuck
>>And the neighbour's kid spent the whole semester playing hooky
>>I'll just send the message already, maybe they'll manage to arrive before the crops are ruined
but then their neighbours would also report therm for being paranoid, and so on in a big circle of wasting Taran Zhu's time backflipping into every backyard in Pandaria

no wonder the Shado-Pan are so useless by the time the Horde and Alliance shows up

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So, when will they put aside their differences and get together?

>>50030161
Although I think this an actually neat interpretation, I doubt Blizz would set WC's lore in this level of depth.

The idea of Pandaria was more an appease to the chinks than anything.

>>50031853
When Illidan is back in his cell where he belongs.

>>50031859
It really was and it was never some subtle darkness like that other anon is trying to say. Just "fat pandas so enlightened, why you filthy foreigners not enlightened like fat pandas?"

>>49997098
>Discuss Warcraft's lore

IMHO, World of Warcraft was a mistake.

>>50031853
I'd laugh my ass off if this ends with Illidan and Maiev canonically fucking.

The hate sex meme would be real

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>>50030161
Except that's stretching things way beyond what we see in-game, to an unreasonable grimderp extreme. People on Pandaria could have emotions just fine, it's when they stewed in them over longer periods of time (like Taran Zhu having to deal with all the shit RED vs. BLU causes) or experienced extreme trauma (Nazgrim seeing his entire invasion force wiped out in moments) that sha start popping up.

Quick, assuming videogames and pen-and-paper RPG's existed on Azeroth, what would each racial leader's favorite one of each?

Hard Mode: no recursion.
Lor'Themar Must Die Mode: no Blizzard properties.

>>50032427
If it actually happened, I'd masturbate furiously.

>>50032697
>Tyrande & Malf
Harvest Moon
>Sylvanas
Warhammer Total War, Vampire Counts player
>Garrosh
MYFAROG
>Baine
D&D 2E
>3 hammers council
Dwarf Fortress
>Anduin
Wii Sports
>Saurfang
idk but he's probably minmaxed a warrior to shit in something
>Greymane
Corruption of Champions. Furfags.
>Illidindu
Hatred

MOP went to garbage as soon as the faction war faggotry went really full throttle.

>>50007932
Legion 7.1 made it a FOS to get Sul'Thraze the lasher, the sword that you mm ake out of two other swords that dropped from Zul'Drak.

Who's ready for Return to Zul'Drak?

>>50032946
>Genn
>heavily conservative old man
>playing CoC

I mean, sure, memes, but come on.

>>50031859

The Chinks rewarded Blizzard by making the Warcraft movie not a total flop so I guess pandering to them is a dandy plan.

>>50032323

Hey now, Vanilla was dazzling Lorewise. It wasn't until The Burning Crusade that it went rolling down the hill.

>>50032469

Blizzard has repeatedly shown they aren't able to do subtle i stead of telling you how to see what happens in their stuff. See War Crimes and a Celestial shilling Varian over Tyrande.

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>>50032946
>Corruption of Champions. Furfags.
He'd be playing Ironclaw.
Which is actually a very solid game in terms of rules. It's just pandering very deeply to furries.

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>>50033326
Oops, wrong picture. That actually looks like dignified anthro.
This is what to expect with Ironclaw players.

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>>50033349
Is that supposed to be Lina and Naga?

It is, isn't it.

>>50033437
Yes. Yes it is.

>>50033349
>>50033437
While it is a blatant rip off. I'm kinda surprised that -ahem- younger kids even know about the older anime.
You'd assume a super old reference would be perfectly fine if no one knew what it's from.

>>50033549
Slayers is one of the best-known fantasy anime ever made. They obviously wanted it to be recognized.

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>>50032946
>Garrosh
>MYFAROG

>>50004191
I's surprised to think they forgot about Gunther.

Before the whole Val'kyr fiasco, the story was that he would teach the forsaken Necromancy to continue to propagate.
The only downside is that just cause he can raise them doesn't mean they will be strong willed enough to retain their minds.

>>50034145
Frankly, I don't see Sylvanas rejecting that kind of help out of moral concern. Her entire city guard is Abominations, after all.

>>50034486
I think the city guard abominations have free will, they just also have very simplistic minds

They're more like guard dogs than traditional guards.

They were, after all, there during vanilla WoW, back when the forsaken actually gave a fuck about free will

>>50034657
Yeah there's intelligent abominations working for the Forsaken. They're just rare.

Though since abominations are made of multiple bodies, is their consciousness a gestalt of every person used to make them?

>>50025239

I still don't understand this meme. For years fans have gone on about how Illidan was a tragic figure who did nothing wrong, but once Blizzard decides to push that point all of a sudden this "dindu" shit starts.

>>50035418
You're listening to different communities.

>>50035418

>Pretending the fags defending Illidan aren’t Horde Dindu Nuffin fags

>>50035418
Different stroke for different folks. Hence why you can go anywhere and ten years on people are still arguing over Stratholme.

>>50035418

I'd be ok with them making Illidan a heroic figure so long as they properly acknowledged that he had more complexity to him than they're trying to present him with now.

To be honest I wouldn't even care about that, it's just very annoying when you have a glowing wind chime go "MAN WHAT AN IGNORANT HATEFUL CREATURE YOU WERE TO FIGHT THE GUY DOING ALL THOSE HORRIBLE THINGS IN OUTLAND, DON'T WORRY YOU CAN SQUIRM AT HIS FEET FOR FORGIVENESS"

I preferred it when naaru didn't directly speak.

>>50035667

I mean for fuck's sake Xe'ra we look down and see a naaru taking part in the assault on the black temple right there in the opening cinematic for the demon hunters! You were all in on it too you piece of hypocritical mountain giant shit.

>>50014474
The center of their city is a bank, and ringing that are auctioneers, who represent the very spirit of capitalism. How about no.

>>50035667
These claims about Illidan being a good boy would be so much easier to swallow if he didn't have a well established history of being untrustworthy fuck up.

>>50016771
The new quests, while they have more flash and overall quality are just too different. I don't nostalgia trip often, but the Forsaken were better as the rotting corpse of a civilization in Lorderon. The run-down buildings and ragtag death guard set a tone.

Now they're "gray humans" to turn a phrase, with their own architecture style and incredibly advanced technologies. On one hand, yes it's all very cool, but it's not what made the Forsaken a unique faction not just to Warcraft, but to fantasy.

>>50023247
That's where the crazy part comes in. We have no proof that part--the critical part mind you--will work out. Hence why we aren't all just assuming the position.

That and the demons have made the critical error of being full of/made from a variety of magical equipment and crafting items.

>>50025279
*sighs*

I'm gonna miss Dadgar when he inevitably bites it.

>>50024512
Jesus FUCKING Christ Blizzard.
>Khadgar and Gul'dan duel for all.of WoD expansion
>Gul'dan takes Cordana from Khadgar
>Khadgar and PCs fuck shit up in HFC
>Events of the audio novel occur (one of the best bits of expansion marketing yet)
>Finally get here and Illidan dunks Gul'dan while Khadgar watches

Holy shit. All that time building up that rivalry for zero payoff. Not even a snarky one liner. Fuck me it's like they'really bad on purpose. And yes I'm mad.

>>49997409
TWILIGHT
OF
THE
THUNDERLORD

>>50032946
So who is World of Darkness player?

>>50035909

I get where you're coming from, but the whole point of the Khadgar/Gul'dan rivalry was not to payoff Khadgar as Our Hero. It was to take Gul'dan to the next level so he would be a more worthy adversary.

Khadgar's entire character has always been about falling short, screwing up and not quite being the hero that we need. He gets things done, but its always at some kind of horrible cost because he's not good enough to win clean. He lost his youth killing Medivh, he trapped the Alliance Expedition in Outland because he couldn't stop the Horde AND get his people home, when the Legion came to Outland he couldn't beat them and had to rely on the Naaru to rescue him, and when he lead us to Alt Draenor he went in expecting it was a suicide mission, was completely fooled by Cordanna, and couldn't stop Gul'dan from bringing the Legion back despite the fact that he had multiple chances. At the end in that audio novel, the only thing he did was drive Gul'dan into accepting the Legion's power, making him a greater threat than ever, and in that comic he sat there (rightly) lamenting that he's no Guardian and he doesn't have what it takes to stop the Legion, even though he'll never give up. That's who Khadgar is.

The Audio Novel WAS the payoff to their Rivalry. Gul'dan won. Everything after that for Khadgar was trying to make up for his mistakes. He was never going to get Gul'dan.

>>50034486
It wasn't even a moral concern, he was a non-aligned necromancer.

He couldn't control the undead he raised but he could raise them regardless. So it was literally up to chance if an individual would have a will strong enough to become sapient and actually useful to the forsaken.

>>50020861

Ysera's death and rapture/memorial by Elune was a great moment, don't be a jerk.

>>50033195
>red vs blue
>dazzling lorewise

>>50036629
Vanilla wasn't really about Red vs Blue. It was mostly each faction trying to deal with their own individual shit which sometimes made them come into conflict with each other.

Who is the Lich King's persona by the time of Legion taking place? Nel'zhul's is consumed by Arthas, Arthas is dead, but it doesn't seems like Bolvar's either considering Frost/Mourne quest and what shade of Arthas saying.

>>50035779

I would argue that the change to the Forsaken from rotting civilization to their current form is one of WoW's greatest successes in storytelling. In the older content the Forsaken were clinging to the bones of their old lives like the rotting meat that they are, and they were doing it because revenge was the only thing they lived for or cared about. They were obsessed with surviving until the day they could give Arthas what was coming to him, a civilization-wide tone that was set by the queen whom they nearly deified for her role in releasing them from bondage.

But then the revenge came and it was empty, because of course it was empty you idiots. What do you do when your entire race exists to accomplish a goal after it gets accomplished? You turn to your Queen for answers again... but that's gonna be bad news when you find out she plans to kill herself. Luckily, she discovered that was a bad idea for her, and thus resolved that she now had no choice but to live forever because the "curse," of Undeath is a hell of a lot better than HELL. How do you live forever? Apparently you use your near-deific status to inspire your people to a full-blown cultural Renaissance! In the span of two years the Forsaken go from clinging to land they barely care about in the rotted remains of their old homes with the rusted shells of their old arms because they were too busy dying to get busy living, to an empire, triumphant in victory over their own past, innovating, fortifying, consolidating and expanding in every direction. A shift laid at the feet of their leader, based on a lie but perhaps no less real because of that.

The Forsaken have changed more than any other race in the journey from the start of the game to today, and that's not an accomplishment that should be dismissed.

Is there any fluff reason that the PCs can revive over and over like nothing happened but named character's cannot?

>>50036819
Spirit Healers seem to like adventurers enough that even the rudest PC's still get their aid.

>>50036819

Well, Demon Hunters have a thing where Illidan tells them they have an "immortal demon soul," and thats why they can come back, but there's nothing for the others.

My theory is that in-universe, any given person's Player Character is the "only one," who actually comes back, and its because whatever force controls the Spirit Healers has marked them as having a special destiny and thus protects them from death. Any other characters you play with are brought back before Real Death by resurrection magic.

>>50036832
Well, aside from that, all those resurrection spells and such exist it seems (even whitemane uses it) but those are never used/don't work on named characters. Why?

>>50036859

Its implied resurrection spells have a very limited time window where they work, and also there's some things they can't bring you back from.

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>when you want to raise Tirion but the Light wont let you

Kayn vs. Altruis: Who would you side with?

Also, can someone tell me how DH's questline (after capturing the Legion's spaceship) goes?

I find all the hate about Blizzard's "Illidan wank," in Legion funny. Ya'll know that this kind of Most Important Heroic Guy Ever treatment is exactly what you wanted for him back then when you were a dumb teenager who spent hours on the internet whining about how he was ruined by the HE WENT CRAZY AND BECAME EVIL plot.

Illidan is cool. There's nothing wrong with him coming back from the dead or being The Chosen One in this expansion. Just because you've grown jaded about "edgy characters," in your old age doesn't mean you should be a curmudgeon.

>>50036664

>Pretending it wasn't TBC that upped the faction war faggotry by introducing Varian and Garosh

>>50036952

>implying I'm not loving every second of it

just let your inner teenager out, lads

>>50036952

>MMO Champion Nigger

>>50036894
>Kayn vs. Altruis: Who would you side with?
Kayn. He's actually loyal unlike Altruis.

>>50036958
>TBC =/= Vanilla

Also Varian wasn't introduced to the game until WotLK. Which was also the first time the Horde and Alliance had an actual battle with the blowout from the Wrathgate and attack on the Undercity.

>>50037023
fag Garrosh is still in the Outland, general Garrosh is still in the Northrend, but why no attack on Undercity anymore Blizzard

>>50037023

It was about time. Every single zone before the horde was conquest this, conquest that, attacking into ashenvale, genociding humans, poisoning sleeping druids etc and when formal war gets declared on them they are just shocked beyond belief how could this happen to them.

>>50037054
Horde lives matter-post soon.

>>50036952
>Illidan's story arc is fucked by TBC
>nine years later is double-fucked by Legion

>lol guize, y'all wanted this shit XDDD

Weak bait, m8

>>50035571
Arthas was right.

Why was the Warrior campaign such a huge letdown? It's like the ending was cut short.

>>50037054

The Horde most aggressive acts weren't even on Alliance land. The Night Elves and the Horde were having petty skirmishes and low-level brushfire conflicts over borders and resources, but they lived peacefully with Jaina's official Alliance settlements and only took aggressive action against Alliance races if they were renegades like the Kul Tiras fleet survivors or if they committed a grievous act against the Horde, like Twinbraid's Dwarves who were violating sacred Tauren burial grounds.

If the Alliance hadn't taken the Nelves under their banner and just let them and the Horde settle things on the small scale, there wouldn't have been a worldwide Cold War that went Hot just a handful of years later.

I mean, shit, even after the Horde took the Forsaken on THEY didn't threaten Alliance lands until after war broke out. No, AB doesn't count, Stromgarde was a fallen kingdom, that was local militias skirmishing over supplies in neutral territory. Yeah, they were committing atrocities and experimenting with WMDs behind the scenes, but the Alliance didn't know that. The Eastern Kingdoms faced no Horde aggression, just a handful of settlements scattered all across the map. The Alliances' decision to make the Night Elves border disputes a World Superpower scale issue is what brought everything where it is today.

>>50036664
The two factions in general is at least law sexual assault.

>>50037142
>starts off as a somewhat well meaning but shortsighted and magic addicted idiot who couldn't get over that his crush chose his brother over him
>turns into a horned hitler
>then gets turned into a horned jesus

Couldn't we get the original Illidan back instead of having to deal with these annoying cunts?

>>50037177
All that goalpost moving.

>>50037205
This.
>>Horde starts shit
>>Alliance reacts
>>OMG WHY ALLIANCE SO HOSTILE

>>50037214
>>50037205

The Horde did start shit. They just didn't start it with the Alliance. The Alliance stuck their noses into shit that wasn't any of their business and escalated something minor into something massive. That's what I said.

>>50037214
Horde was a good faction, dindu nuffin wrong and went to shamanistic meeting every Sunday. Wassa trying to turn its life around, but then dem alliance crackas came down and declared war on him.

>>50037220
I wouldn't say it wasn't their business. And the Horde was deliberately attacking Alliance sympathizers and former Alliance members. Stromgarde and Dalaran specifically.

Though the Dwarves tried to genocide the Frostwolf Clan for archeology of all things. So it's not like the Alliance hasn't done provocative stuff too

>>50037244

I'll give you that the Forsaken prodding at Dalaran's outlying settlements, even if they weren't an official Alliance member kingdom at the time, was a bad and dumb move that the Alliance would be 100% right to be concerned and aggrieved over. But I hold that Stromgarde was a completely fallen kingdom at the time. News of the Forsaken raiding for supplies and whatnot should have been expected as a matter of course and not treated as some great grievance worthy of escalating tensions with the entire Horde.

Granted, circumstances and how the timeline played out didn't give the Alliance the time, opportunity or military resources to launch a reconquista of Stromgarde before everything blew up, but sending token forces under the official banner of the faction to aid the surviving militiamen in ramping up the conflict with a dumb move.

What would Azeroth be like if the Alliance had exterminated the Orcs instead of putting them in camps?

>>50037335

A dead world because without the Horde's forces the Legion's attack wouldn't have been turned back at Hyjal.

>>50037335
>no horde
>intact alliance ready for demons

Pretty noise/10

>>50033090
>Sul'Thraze the lasher
That used to be a drop in Zul'Farrak.

Raid level Zul'Farrak? My body is ready.

>>50037335
Tauren would be extinct because of Centaurs. Darkspear trolls would be extinct because of Naga. Forsaken would be on their own. Blood elves would be on their own. Bilgewater Cartel would be extinct because of the volcano. Night Elves would still be alone in the woods.

Blackrock Mountain would belong entirely to Ragnaros/Dark Irons.

Gilneas would be willing to join the New Alliance from the start because no Wall due to no camps.

Hozen would have no friends, same for Taunka and Revantusk.

Will Stromgarde go to DK Thoras or Danath?

>>50037349

But then Grom wouldn't have almost ruined everything in Ashenvale, Night Elves could have faced the Legion with Cenarius and the Legion wouldn't have a fel orc army

>>50037351

The "intact Alliance ready for demons" didn't even believe Kalimdor was real and that Medivh was a crazy person for suggesting they send their forces there. If Archimonde had taken the World Tree he either would have been unstoppable himself or he would have used it to open a portal for Big Sarg. The Eastern Kingdoms wouldn't have lasted a month.

>>50037385
Plus Medivh could get other races to prepare/go to Kalimdor without having to rely on fucking orcs.

>>50037392
To be fair, Medivh couldn't have been more vague.
>>Something's acomin'!
>>Something bad!
>>Move EVERYTHING now!
Like shit, at least say the Burning Legion. There's bound to be someone who knew who what he was talking about if he wasn't such a cryptic shit about it.

>>50037392
Only because they had orcs to deal with.

>>50037385

Even if you assume that the Ashenvale forces and Cenarius are enough to make the difference in fighting the Legion, the Nelves weren't just fighting the Legion. The Legion's forces were supplemented by the Scourge, that was the whole reason why Kil'Jaedan made the Lich King in the first place. Medivh knew the Nelves couldn't handle the zombies AND the demons together, that's why he tried to get the Alliance and Thrall to help him even though there was an ocean between them.

>>50037420
But would Arthas become an edgelord without orcs around?

>>50036894
Kayn knows loyalty (to you and Illidari), and wants Illidan back in general, but accepts you are new leader. With Kayn, you rip Shade of Akama out of Akama again.

Altruis is responsible for deaths of your instructors,which lead to Kil'jeaden corrupting one of them and using him to kill your brothers and sisters. He also wants to take over the Illidari and prefers for Illidan to never return. He also gets Akama join you in flesh.

Mind that Akama is a traitor.

>>50037392
>The "intact Alliance ready for demons" didn't even believe Kalimdor was real and that Medivh was a crazy person for suggesting they send their forces there.
Because Medivh WAS a crazy person. The human kingdoms killed him once for being a crazy person.

It's not like King Terenas was a complete retard. Spell that shit out instead of scaremongering and he might have listened.

>>50037410

Medivh was always an eccentric weirdo. I always figured it was kind of a test of morality or character or something, the old Odin schtick where if you don't head the words of the mysterious old stranger you didn't deserve to live anyway.

His final line in WC3 is that the world has no more need for Guardians. Maybe he was vague about his warning because if he'd been too direct about it they wouldn't have proven that? I mean, if he only knew because he was the Guardian and they only went because he was very specific about WHAT he knew, that just proves they DO need him, right?

>>50032946
>Ilidan
>not playing doom

>>50037443
Basically Medivh's "warning" was equal to a crazy hobo with an End is Near plaque screaming to the US President that he should sent his forces to Atlantis.

>>50037437

Probably. Arthas was an arrogant dickheaded douche. That "road to hell paved with good intentions," thing is a complete crock. It was always about proving he was the guy with all the answers and satisfying his ego, not good intentions. Hearthglen proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

>>50037455
I'm sure that's cold comfort for all the dead of Lordaeron. There's still a difference between giving a warning without riddles and fighting the Legion on his own with the power of a Guardian. All he had to do was not ramble like a homeless man, and speak for more than a minute.

>>50037455
>I always figured it was kind of a test of morality or character or something, the old Odin schtick where if you don't head the words of the mysterious old stranger you didn't deserve to live anyway.
Wasn't it out of some misguided attempt to make up for his colossal amounts of fucking up in the Orcs&Humans days?

I mean, it's a shitty way of doing it because what kingdom would listen to a warning like that, but I guess he was still kinda butthurt about getting gangbanged by knights while his tower burned.

>>50037335
Still pretty bad, if not worse.

>>50037366
>Night Elves would still be alone in the woods.
Someone would still go to Kalimdor, given there still is the Scourge. Elves alone = Elves dead.
>Blackrock Mountain would belong entirely to Ragnaros/Dark Irons.
No, because Rend and Maim, and their part of Blackrock Clan was never captured.

Frostwolf and Warsong Clans also stays not captured.

>>50037473
Who would have believed him if he told them an army of demons from space/another dimension was coming to destroy the world? The end result would have been the same.

>>50037437
Stratholme.

>>50037501
>Who would have believed him if he told them an army of demons from space/another dimension was coming to destroy the world?
considering they just fought off an invading army of demon-worshipping orcs from another world?

plenty

>>50037501
It's not that far fetched considering the Orcs and Ogres were from another planet.

>>50037501
Sounds more believable than
>u must go to west because of reasons
>why?
>reeeeeeeeee stop questioning muh prophecies!1!1!!'

>>50037473
Did he even still had his entire power of a Guardian after resurrection?

>>50037497
Oh. That could prove to be an issue.

>>50037527
As far as I remember he absorbed the power in Karazhan and set out to give vague warnings. It's implied he has power, if not full Guardian strength then still enough to be a great asset, but decided that the world should help itself.

>>50037516
>>50037520

I think the question here is regarding if knowledge of the Burning Legion had been preserved or not. Demons were known to exist, but I believe they were just generally considered to be powerful and dangerous monsters. The concept of an endless army of demons united in a cause to cleanse the universe of live at the whim of an evil Titan is a whole different ball of max.

We know that the Guardian knew of the Legion, and we know the Council of Tirisfall knew of the Legion, and that they learned it from the High Elves who had preserved knowledge from when they left the Night Elves at the sundering. But we also know that knowledge of the Legion was a secret. The High Elves kept it among their leadership caste, and they shared it only in secret with a handful of elite wizards among the humans, not even the proper Kirin Tor.

By the time Warcraft 3 comes around the Council is long gone thanks to Aegwynn, the Guardian is long dead and the High Elves had drawn back into their lands and weren't available to chime in on any warning Medivh might have given. I think its safe to assume that the humans wouldn't have had a clue what the Legion was and would probably have not believed that Demons were the kind of creatures that could work in unison and form armies and crusades based on casual knowledge of what Demons are and how they generally act.

>>50037275

>forsaken start exterminating the still very much existing kingdom of Stromgarde and proudly exclaiming that Arathi will never again be a home for humans

>HE A GOOD BOY DINDU NUFFIN

also I still cant believe there are people defending the horde attacking into ashenvale and attacking Theramore

>>50037516
>>50037520
Fair enough. Though, didn't it take them a while to find out that the Orcs were from another world? Up until that point they could probably be mistaken as a Troll offshoot or something. Wouldn't seem overly strange. But if you were to tell someone that demons, the kind of stuff you only hear about in stories and such, were coming? I'd be skeptical. It's all a matter of perspective I guess, but that's my take on it.

>>50037614
>But if you were to tell someone that demons, the kind of stuff you only hear about in stories and such, were coming?
There are people in the kingdoms (and most importantly, the leaders themselves) who took part in the wars, man. It's in living memory.

If the guardian who you thought dead came back and said something bad was brewing, you would at least take heed, if only skeptically. They KILLED him for bringing demons over, chances are he has at least a clue of when demon shit is going down.

>>50037614
Given that by the time that WC3 rolled around they had already invaded Orc's home world through the dark portal years ago the idea of there being other worlds filled with hostile forces waiting for a chance to invade isn't that hard to believe.

>>50037585

Stromgarde existed so hard that 2/3rds of their capital city was occupied by random non-aligned orges and bandits, including the castle keep, while their "prince," was slumming it in a house near a graveyard. There was no flight path to the city and all Alliance dealings with the kingdom's citizens went through a handful of low-ranked soldiers operating out of a hole in the ground.

Sure sounds like an intact and sovereign power to me.

The Horde's attacks into Ashenvale were aggressive and unjustified, but they were a minor conflict until the Alliance decided the Nelves should be in their faction. This isn't the modern world we're talking about here, this is a medival fantasy setting, small scale wars over border claims and resources are common. There was nothing worth starting a World War over happening in Ashenvale.

And the Horde never attacked Theramore until they became the main military and supply hub for the entire Alliance war effort post-Cataclysm, what are you smoking?

>>50037633
>If the guardian who you thought dead came back and said something bad was brewing, you would at least take heed, if only skeptically. They KILLED him for bringing demons over, chances are he has at least a clue of when demon shit is going down.
But no one recognized him. Either his appearance had changed, or he wasn't well known.

>>50037635
>>50037633


I mean, lets be real here, when Medivh came into the Throne Room he got exactly two sentences out before the Kirin Tor Ambassador called for him to be removed by force and King Terenas gave him a lecture about how he's not going to let some crazy tell him how to protect his people. They never gave him the chance to explain further. It was obvious they weren't going to listen to him no matter what he said, so he went looking for other humans who would. That's why he went to Jaina and Arthas privately.

To be fair though, he probably should have shown some of them a dream vision like he gave Thrall. Might have helped.

>>50037687
>But no one recognized him.
because he was hiding his appearance and didn't tell them jack shit beyond "pack your bags and go faggots"

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>>50037705
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZpvrtLoFak
>>A warning has been given. Their fate is now their own.
>>doesn't actually give a warning

>>50037572
Pretty much, especially that they guy who demanded Medivh (guy who flew into the chamber in form of talking Raven and then turned into a dude that holds one of the most iconic staves, which should exist in legends well enough to be recognized) to be removed, was Ambassador of Dalaran.

>>50037692
>Might have helped.
Pretty much anything would have helped compared to what he did.

Charging into congress and screaming about terrorists isn't going to make people take you seriously.

>>50037687
>Either his appearance had changed,
Of course it did. It's not like most of people would recognize the stage between Disco Medivh and Old Guy Medivh that used Drain Life on Khadgar, regaining some youth at the cost of Khadgar's.

>>50037717
>ey faggot, your subjects are prisoners
>now hear me out
>your only hope is to cross the ocean
Man, what the fuck what he even thinking with that. Terenas is the sort of guy who probably would hear him out if he didn't start with a fucking quip.

>>50037648

>its okay to genocide humans if their kingdom is weak!

Yeah, thats some hordefag thinking.

>And the Horde never attacked Theramore until they became the main military and supply hub for the entire Alliance war effort post-Cataclysm, what are you smoking?

Do the vanilla quest where they are preparing to attack it.

>>50037772

Fuck off, so it was OK for the Alliance to want to genocide the Forsaken? There's a dozen references to their desire to wipe them out in Vanilla material, they were in no way content to let them live and let live. You're going to sit there and throw stones about "genocide," because they rode into land where no government ruled and no army protected for no reason other than to gather a few resources and killed people who were dumb enough to get in their way? It may not be friendly behavior, but fuck you for having the brass to call it "genocide," when the oh-so-enlightened Alliance was plotting ACTUAL GENOCIDE against the Forsaken.

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>>50037220
I don't know anon, I'd think a full-scale invasion of Ashenvale with the goal to stripmine the place and murder its inhabitants as a good reason for the Alliance to get all nosy.

>>50037828

>evil undead who start off with genociding an alliance army helping them
>they go off and attack Dalaran, Stromgarde, Lordaeronian remnants, Stormwind and even Gilneas later
>they even travel to Kalimdor just to poison sleeping druids and fight night elves
>working on a weapon to kill all living
>one of their racial leaders was a dreadlord

Yeah. poor dindus. I can't imagine why the humans attempting to restore Lordaeron would fight them. Fucking racists man, always trying to keep a brotha down(in a grave)

>>50037828
Given that the Forsaken were working on Plague 2.0 and generally being massive cunts towards the living I would say that preparing to purge them if/when they decided to become New Scourge was perfectly justified.

Tbh Horde is on its best when it is allowed to be evil monsters, of course this goes against Blizzard's need to pander to the muh noble savages&misunderstood victims crowd and thus we will never get the good ol' brutal&cunning Warcraft 1&2 Horde back.

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>>50037884

>>50037897
>tfw garrosh could had brought back the horde that knew it was evil and enjoyed every fucking second of it
>but no, blizzard had to go and make them innocent dindus again

>>50036894
Altruis. He might have fucked some things up, but he's willing to question his superiors and think for himself instead of blindly following whoever's giving the orders.

>>50037853

Its made extremely clear that the Alliance doesn't know about the Forsaken's experiments or other bad behavior. The degree to which that stuff was sanctioned by Sylvanas, because of Varimathras' influence or willfully ignored is something we're never going to know, so we can't really know how much blood is on her hands and how just the Alliance's desire for revenge on her and the Forsaken for those atrocities is. But in Vanilla at least the only factor the Alliance was considering in their determination that they needed to be exterminated was that they were undead. That's fucked up.

Lets also note that if the Alliance had gotten their way and killed the Forsaken, Putress wouldn't have been around to cure Arthas' second plague and the entire world would have been wiped out. Putress may have been a traitorous Legion pawn, but he also saved the world. That's why wiping them out because they're "monsters," is a shitty stance and Alliance people who say its right and proper are dumb, no matter how awful some of the things they've done are. Their entire species does not deserve execution for the crimes of a few, no matter how numerous that few is.

Oh look, it's the "who genocided who more" argument again.

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>>50037884
Its suprisingly a good example of just how out of touch the D-team Developers who took over after Ulduar are. Most Horde players played Horde because of WC3 or the tight-knit guilds that formed when the Alliance was by far the majority of players. Only a minority of players and the devs themselves were fans of the Horde being a bunch of unrepentant monsters, and the Cataclysm and MoP being so hated by Hordies took them by surprise.

The Alliance side was a cluster fuck. WC1&2 humans were either Lawful Stupid honor before reason idiots, or xenophobic murder-hobos, but I get the feeling the D-team Devs only played a handful of Alliance missions, because Cata/MoP story-lines were chalk full of the former and the later didn't exist. Worgen and Night Elves aren't Lawful Good, and being in a faction where LG is the default alignment only hinders and destroys them thematically. I think with all the NE Magi around, the Devs were trying to force the Night Elves into the 'High elf" role of the traditional Alliance like a idiot tries to force a square block into a circular hole, damn the consequences.

>>50038056
Yeah, I love the Horde but I can't stand what they did to them after Wrath.

>>50038056
it's funny how the roles in that picture have flipped now

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>>50038085
Yeah, I was Horde until I got sick of the rampant war-mongering in Cataclysm. Post-Wrath Horde isn't the Horde I signed up for. Alliance players were the some of the most apathetic people I've played with. They either drank up the LG HFY that disparaged members of their own faction, or loathed Blizzard for beating them down with the Horde, then finger-wagging at them for not instantly forgiving the Horde because revenge is not a noble virtue. Even if the PC isn't human.

Moved back to the Horde a bit during legion There's zero non-human Alliance drama anymore. Whereas the Horde has had 2 non-Orc Warchiefs so far. Hell, Glenn spends most of his time in human form.

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>>50038167
Finally-put my thoughts into words on what I was going for in my last post. Blizzard has always done an amazing job of including most of the races into the Hordes overall story and theme. Yeah, its still mostly pointy-Orc shit, but the other races are there and treated as equals.

None of that Alliance side. Its Humanity at the forefront with the spotlight permanently on them, the other races are an afterthought if they get to them at all. The latest Blue post on the 'Blue Warchief' nonsense shows they got the message that their attempts of showing it as a Supreme-Allied Commander in MoP failed hard, but they will not entertain thoughts of a non-human taking that role or becoming the 'face' of the Alliance. Its probably going into hiatus until Anduin gets old, because prophecy overrides logic and reason.

>>50038167
This...

I agree with you.

Its funny how the Alliance hated the Cataclysm because they lose a lot on this expac...
they were all "muh southshore sob sob"

The devs wanted them to feel like underdog heroes for a future great triumph... and its ironic that they hated every moment of that. They literaly stepped on Orgrimmar and deposed a warchief and they were still whining about how they job and how Blizz only focus on the Horde...

As a Horde player I also hated everything on that. To think that previously Thrall was a great character and Varian only a dick.... How things change.

>>50038328
So yeah, they treated the Horde how the Alliance wanted to be treated, and the Alliance the way the Horde wanted to be treated, and then acted confused about why no one was happy

The Horde WANT to be underdogs fighting for a hard-won triumph. It's what WC3 was based on for the Horde campaigns, and what the entire Vanilla Horde experience was based on. It made you feel strong as a player, the Horde was a faction of scrappers, continuously knocked down and refusing to stop getting up

Which is probably the only reason why the Horde still has players at all, because they still keep getting up after every time Blizzard throws more bullshit at them.

Fuck Sylvanas' shit, I still maintain hope that Vol'jin is secretly alive

>>50038328

Bullshit. The Alliance got shit on the entire expansion pack insulted at every time with kiddy shit like the goblins carving a zone sized horde insignia and canonically losing the SS-TM zerg. And the 'epic fist-pumping moment" metzen promised was turned out to be varian going "p-play nice k-k-kids" and getting passive-agressively insulting before leaving Ogrimmar and an instant snap back to status quo with horde keeping all of its gains.

Fuck that shit, left and never came back, it was already overdue after cataclysm.

It baffles me how they cant write simple faction archetypes for shit. Who the fuck ever wanted this dindu orc bullshit or "misunderstood" forsaken shit?