Warmachine/Hordes General

Who here is going to WMW?
I am bringing Skorne and Guild Ball and watching some painting classes.

>eJuniors Hordes Spoilers
Zaadesh2 has Burning Ash
Una2 gives her BG Flank [Griffon]

Reposting a rules questions:
Does Sevvy1 benefit from Eye of Menoth himself? Does it increase his spells?
Does his feat prevent models from using magic special abilities or does it only block spells cast? (A mk2 source said yes, but now it's mk3, so I'm not sure if it still counts)

>>49991001
Yes he benefits from Eye of Menoth
Yes his feat prevents models from using magic abilities

>>49991063
Nice, so Asses to Asses becomes POW 11? And POW 13 when channeled through BoV?

And can you explain why it prevents magic abilities? Where is the rule that they count as spells?

>>49991092
>Where is the rule that they count as spells?

Page 72 of the rulebook.

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>>49991204
Great, have a Vigilant! It's definitely one my favourite models the Protectorate has to offer.

Am I right in thinking if Haley 1 feats, Long gunners can aim, and potentially fire 3x Rat 15 pow20 shots?

>>49992000
Yes. Pow 21 if you use the UA.

>>49992000
Yeah. My personal favorite though is Siege's feat turn, popping off two armor piercing pow 20s on two different targets. He can also foxhole them to make them pretty hard to remove if there isn't stuff like eleaps and ashes to ashes in play.

>>49992000
Yes, but they're still not as good as Trenchers or Storm Lances.

>>49992000
They're not one of Cygnar's only two units, so don't even bother.

>>49992000
Yes but why would you want that?

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What's the best faction for a first timer?

So with the Master Tormentors and Void Spirits being as good as they are, is there any reason to take the Skorne infantry beyond Beast Handlers?

>>49993963
Bloodrunners are great. Reivers seem p ok. Karax are probably the best 11 point unit in the game.

>>49993876
Not Skorne or Cryx

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Im able to find the alphabets for the various factions, but I dont see any numbers. Do the factions just use arabic numerals or what?

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>>49993876
Khador. Their stuff is tough enough to be a bit more forgiving of mistakes and the lack of arcnodes means their Warcasters are often a bit more straightforward in design,

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>>49990867
If i only want to run jacks/beasts and solos, what warcaster from either Legion or Retribution would be the most competitive?
Any idea on a sample list?

>>49994513

Abby2

>>49993963

Yes. There are reasons to take any Skorne infantry unit other than Swordsmen. There are *great* reasons to take Karax, and not many good reasons not to.

>aw shit
>they're gonna get nerfed, aren't they?

>>49994260

Melt her frozen heart, anon.

>sorscha3 feat: Remembering Vlad's "It's not you, it's me" breakup speech. Berserk, Overtake, Additional dice attack and damage. Grievous Wounds if target model has pauldrons.

>>49994695
Reminder that Karax are very overrated.

>Tyrant Commander
>Push to the Limit battle plan removed
>Stir the Blood battle plan added
Voila, it's good.

>>49996904
They're pretty good though. Skorne does suck, but karax, reivers, nihilators, ferox, slingers, bloodrunners, their artillery, and all of their solos are totally servicable units.

Their casters and battlegroup options are ass, and the whole faction suffers from a support tax that's too high.

>>49996924
Boy I sure love paying 6 points so my infantry have the same P+S as any other infantry. On top of paying 5 points to make my beasts hit as hard as everyone else's beasts.

No more fucking support bloat.

>>49996962
>No more fucking support bloat.
You say that as if the Tyrant himself isn't a beast in combat. PS12+4d6 on the charge will make a hole in any heavy.

>>49996977
So you attached a missle to the tax? Guess what, it's still a tax.

>>49996954
>all of their solos
The Willbreaker just doesn't do enough. If you could leach back through it, it'd be amazing. Also the PGMT is overrated. She can run in, kill 2-3 guys, but can't Sprint far enough to not just die next turn. They're a last resort in my lists for dealing with infantry. Orin is choice #1.

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

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Gentleman, I wonder: How can we fix skrimish/Rumble format for warmahorde?
>inba go play guildball n' shit.
Still. I want beastjack brawling tactics to be a thing. How to make it happen?
For Rumble I thought about somme limitation like no more than 2 non-unique to limit boring spam. Maybe giving 1 free advance deployment/unkeep on a unit to each player. For terrain 3-5 element with 2-3 restricted.
Any recommandation?

>>49996977
>>49996988

And if so much as one point of that is for the standard bearer it's a fucking insult.

>>49998993
Yeah, they could really give him some sort of ability. Any kind really. Just anything that does something. I don't even care what. Just something.

>>49996954

So it's about what you'd expect if you took a faction, made it play a few points down, and didn't give it any broken shit.

That's a problem, but it doesn't seem like a *loud* problem.

>>49997204
Don't play rumble.

Play something the game is designed to handle

>>49994513

Helynna does some excellent mostly 'jack lists for Ret, particularly for Shyeel jacks. Vyros isn't bad for jack spam either, and Ossyan adds a lot to a gunline.

>>49999198
Are you just talking about infantry? Because a faction with nothing but bad warlocks is not a small problem.

Zaadesh2 gets Burning Ash. (High Reclaimer's cloud spell)

Forums say that it's only good if he gets a way to cast it many times and that even then it can't be his only gimmick. Thoughts?

>>50000654

Depends if he's another low fury wonder of a crack at a melee warlock.

If he can cast it twice, upkeep something, and camp enough to live- however he ends up doing it- I'll not bash even if it's his only gimmik.

Experience says he'll be able to cast it twice and have nothing left over to defend himself or pursue other defensive arrangements, and all the ways he can be easily by other, more capable factions killed despite this cloud defense will be regarded as "balancing".

>>49996954

>battlegroup options are ass

I thought the Mammoth, Titans, Aradus Soldier and a few of the Character Warbeasts were still good?

Who is Convergence's main enemy? Trying to determine basing strategy for them...didn't want to do typical gears/cogs.

>>50000749
Those are all "decent"

Aradus are over priced and so Tiberion. Molik Karn is over priced AND terrible. Mammoth has trouble justifying his point cost when two Cannoneers do his job almost as well.

>>50000851

But the Soldier has an arm buff against shooting doesn't it?

Also, what about Despoiler?

>>50001038
Despoiler is faily priced, but he alone cannot pull your battle group together.

Yes the bugs have and arm buff. That doesn't mean they aren't really over priced.

The Sentinels gun is to short and his animus sucks big old titan nuts.

Soldier is the same cost as the Bronzeback.
Bronzeback offers big damage and threats 10 inches with rush. BUT ALSO fury management for your titan herd of "relatively cheap" beasts. BUT ALSO Countercharge to disrupt engagements.

Soldier offers big damage at also a 10 inch. More durable to guns. Not enough to matter. You can't even spam them since they cost so much.

>>50001259

The soldier also has a very cunning drawback to it's "reach/pull" on it's claws threat extention. You can't pull collossals, so it's jaws have a threat of 7" against the things they are absolutely required for. Self-contained, It's a beast of a combat-heavy with AD, pathfinder, high resistance to ranged removal and a one-rounding threat of 9 inches- except for the case of the one job it's the only thing on the table that can do. Then it's out-threated by the thing it's supposed to fight for you. Such is Skorne.

>>50001259

I thought the Bronzeback was worse now to the point where you'd pick a Gladiator or Canoneer over him?

>>50000654
That's very true. I mean, look at the High Reclaimer.

>>50001786
Yup. For some reason people spend 18p on something that 2 beast handlers do better.

>>50001786
Oh the bronzeback sucks and isn't even worth his 18 points either.

However the aradus solider is worse and therefore certainly isn't worth 18 points.

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What would you put into a Mercs/Minions starter pack if they were to make one? What if they made a Mercs V Minions 2-player set?

>>50002216

Yes, but what can you really get that's better for 18 points as far as Skorne Warbeast goes?

>>50002566
Ogrun assault corp vs posse for units.

>>50002585
Despoiler and gladiators are all you need. Or cannoneers.

>>50000398

Is the game designed for 35+ format only?

>>50003037
Rumble is 30"x30", which gets reduced to about 22"x22" after you deploying - which means however goes second can already start shooting, charging or what have you. I'd only use it for Battlegroup or maybe 10 pt games.

>>50003735
Oh and also some feats and most 8 FOCUS casters are retarded, because you just can't get out of their feat range.

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points
>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Despoiler [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]

Gonna be playing a few games tomorrow, got this list ready for someone who wants to play against a list with Despoiler in because he likes the model. I'm going to be HEAVILY leaning on the strength of Void Spirits to clear enemy infantry. So while Mord has no buffs for heavies, I can get away with just plain bringing more of them.

>>50003792
Infact, I'll swap the Handlers for a single max unit, and bring a Soulward. I'll face a Handler backwards on deployment and have the Soulward shoot it in the back for the soul. Mord can always just Revive it. Hell, any turn I'm not doing anything with my fury, I can just build souls. Then when it has enough, they go Hollow and Mord gets souls.

>>50002585

Fury 5 and Pain Response for one.

>>50000816
Cephalyx

War Room Army

Protectorate of Menoth - reznik

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army


High Executioner Servath Reznik - WJ: +28
- Hierophant - PC: 3
- Revenger - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Redeemer - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
- Redeemer - PC: 11
- Dervish - PC: 7
- Dervish - PC: 7

Wrack - PC: 1
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Wrack - PC: 1

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - Rhoven, Gius & Cassian: 9
Idrian Skirmishers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide - Chieftain & Guide: 5


---

GENERATED : 10/29/2016 01:10:54
BUILD ID : 2024.16-08-27

My latest build. I want to stick with it for a while so please give some tipls for it.

>>50004493
Why Dervishes?

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So, conflictchamber is down. I can't complain too much because I'm hardly paying anything for hosting, but it's annoying.

Anyone suggest a good hosting place that's... reliable and not horribly expensive?

>>50004247

Seriously?

Hmm, well that doesn't really have specific basing. Guess I'll do a ruined town.

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Working on a Steamroller pairing for a tournament. Thoughts?

>>50005238
well they're both subterranean races, it makes sense that they'd butt heads all the time.

>>50006295

Are there any images of their temples (Convergence)?

>>50005238
Convergence has some other enemies as well.

Dwarves as a group hate the Convergece, because any dwarves that go on to worship Cyriss aren't worshipping the great fathers.

Circle is also one of their big foes, as they're fighting over the same spots for use as energy.

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>>50006389

Oo, Circle eh? Are the Convergence Temples in the woods--around Ley Lines?

>tfw Zaadesh2 is actually not that bad
>mfw Circle xmas never ends

>>50006543
Yea. In fact, Convergence is attempting to realign the leylines to better suit their purposes, something that puts them at pretty big odds with Circle.

The timeskip fluff discussed about CoC said that Circle had blew so many resources trying to put out fires it left them wide open, and Convergence managed to take more than a few leylines from them.

>>50006568
We have actual spoilers, or just the one spell?

Wanting to get into the game. Looking at four factions.

Khador and menoth for warmachine or trolls and circle for hordes.

Which of those do you think is a good beginner army?

>>50007167
Khador and trolls are both innately durable factions, and are thus more forgiving on mistakes. Menoth is still bit more complicated since you have to leverage a bunch of internal synergy to keep everything running at peak performance. Circle is a clusterfuck of tricky tricks and shenanigans. Wouldnthe recommend for a new player unless you had prior war game experience or are a fast learner.

>>50007331

khador or trolls it is.

Hopefully that man'o'war theme force comes out. Heard about possible trencher battle engine too and that sounds fucking cool.

>>50007360
It is worth noting that once you get to full size games Warmachine's learning curve gets pretty god damn massive, so if you're starting a beginner army so you can switch once you've learned something, you're just best off learning the more complicated army. You'll have a harder time at first, but you'll save yourself a shitload of time.

>>50003792
>>50004022
I am a starting Skorne player - would you mind explaining your tactics a bit more? The strategic value of this eludes me.

>>50007906
It's essentially a heavy spam list, where he's relying on several big heavy hitters along with some support to get all his work done.

Mord can use Void Spirits to clear a lot of infantry, so he can focus the rest of his list into being able to kill big stuff. The Cannoneer provides some backup infantry removal at range as well, but the two Glads, Despoiler, and BB pretty much exist only to break things. BB brings some Fury management as a secondary.

Orin is in there to protect his beasts and caster against enemy magic, while the Beasthandlers are in there to do their stuff.

He's looking to use his feat as a delivery method, using that +3DEF to keep his big boys safe on the way in.

At least, that's my analysis of the list at a glance, I'm no Skorne player.

>>50007331
>Circle is a clusterfuck of tricky tricks and shenanigans.

This. Out of all of the factions I've fought, Circle was always the screaming cunt filled with bullshit. If you want to win by pretty much jumping over your opponents army and fucking their Warverber, pick Circle.

>>50007981
Menoth has just as much, if not more denial as Circle does. Though I guess I don't know how Mk3 has changed that.

>>50007992
Source?

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Soles and company have managed to take a pretty great game and shove it down the shitter.

I'm pretty sad about the game now.

>>50008246
I mean, I don't think that the game is that bad right now, I just think that their PR has been so fucking poorly managed that it seems bad.

Like, the boogymen of Mk3 aren't nearly as nasty as the ones of Mk2, and outside of Skorne, I think options are overall better balanced. Gunlines need a tweak, but hell, WM spam needed a tweak for years in Mk2 and the game managed to go on.

Don't let Sole's inability to grow out of his highschool goth phase put you off the game.

>>50008246
Meh.

Nothing in Mk3 is as bad as Mk2 Gaspy2 or Haley2.

There's a different set of bullshit at the top, but it's not as bad as it was. If they follow through with the actually rebalancing stuff via errata, things will be much better.

>>50005434
Bump for comments.

I'm pretty happy with the Amon list, but iffy on the Kreoss list since I don't play him as much because I feel *worse* about dropping "oh, you moved your caster within 20" of mine, you lose" than "here, deal with seven heavies".

>>50007973
+3 def on def 10 beasts isn't shit. His feat is only good at delivering infantry or lights.

>>50008589
I wasn't making observations of the strength of the tactic, simply what how the list plays.

Beyond that, Skorne players need to quit bitching about their 10/19 statline and focus on their real problems. They are not the only faction with a 10/19 line on their heavies.

>>50008589
Fyanna2 definitely gets more out of a +3 def feat.

>>50008620
I didn't complain about the 10/19. I said a +3 def buff on def 10 is worthless, and that is a fact. 10/19 is fine if you get armor buffs, but Skorne really doesn't get any of those. Defender's ward, x1's feat, and naaresh's feat is it. Agonizer helps but only against melee.

>>50008393
Amon really should have two min choirs instead of one max. I also never run him without a devout and vigilant.

>>50008344
I just hope the errata actually improve the game. Something makes me think PP don't actually know what the hell they are doing anymore.

>>50008620
>and focus on their real problems
Like needing to bring 20p of support to make our stuff not suck. Or our infantry sucking regardless of how much support they get.

>>50008824
It's not that our infantry it's bad it's that our infantry can only kill other infantry, while everyone else gets infantry that can crack armor., while either being cheap or decently costed and durable.

All we get is arcuarii which are fragile and cost more than the single wound options others get while only hitting as hard as them and being slower, or we get cetrati which is the cost of a heavy cavalry unit while doing less damage than a cavalry charge.

>>50008809
Like, they get enough right that it can't just be a fluke.

I just think they've picked an insane idea for Skorne and they want to stick to the fluff instead of trying to make them work as a competitive option, a choice they've said they regretted. Now the question is if they will actually do something about it.

Like, a shitload hinges on this errata. If they don't get this shit right, I think Warmachine is going to end up in a downward spiral. They've blown so much good will in the last year.

>>50008867
>It's not that our infantry it's bad
Yes. Yes it is. Have a look at other faction's infantry and compare them for a second to our crappy Hoksune mess. Now add to that the fact that other factions can suppport their infantry very well, sometimes with just their caster.

>>50008894
>Like, a shitload hinges on this errata. If they don't get this shit right, I think Warmachine is going to end up in a downward spiral. They've blown so much good will in the last year.
Absolutely. If I were them I'd work very very hard until January. That pdf will make or break the game.

>>50008928
Bloodrunners, karax, nihilators, we have single wound infantry that are great. It's just that they're great at killing other infantry. We're awesome at killing single wound infantry. Nihilators will tear through an infantry blob just like they did in mk2. But killing infantry isn't a thing that we need units to do because we have maybe some of the best anti infantry solos in the game with PGMT, and one of the best solo hunters in the void spirit. And you don't see infantry nearly as much as you used to. Only things I can think of that are better are some of the ranged solos like deathstalkers and kell bailoch. Combine those with cannoneers and what we need our units to do is jam and crack armor. Karax and cetrati can jam, but we can't crack armor. We need skorne doom reavers, knights exemplar, champs, anything like that. Instead all we have is arcuarii.

>>50008944
to their credit, they have managed to fix their PR problems, or at least from making them worse, and they've been honest about their mistakes and issues.

One other thing that I think they really made a mistake on was simply how like extra meat Mk3 had. I mean, we got Rumble format, which no one is going to play, and not anything else.

They really should have found a good mode or modification to the game to shake shit up.

I'd have personally loved being able to play two warcasters/warlocks, though the rules would have to be changed pretty drastically for it.

>>50008894
Not everyone plays Skorne

>>50009141
Skorne is just the worst offender.

>>50009141
Skorne's the biggest example, but there's a lot more to worry about.

Like Circle and Troll's competitive presence consisting of a single caster. Like how Cryx got hit way harder then they deserved right at the same time their main counter got super strong. Like how Convergence got it's first new release in years and how it turned out to be dog shit.

Yea, these issues might not affect anyone and some only affect a very few, but the problem here is that it doesn't matter who it directly effects. Community is what keeps this game going on a more than casual local meta scale, especially the tourney element. If people don't think that balance issues are going to get addressed, they're not going to want to put the effort into the game. And that's the downward spiral, because wargames require a critical mass to stay relevant on anything more than a niche scale.

You lose too many players, and your national presence will straight up disappear. They won't have conventions anymore, they won't have big events anymore.

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What's the best way to build around magical jesus girl? I'm new af and have been playing with the menoth battlebox and picked up a few of the essentials that people tell me go well in most lists (choir, vassals). I'm tired of fatty and want to try a new caster before I commit to buying more jacks. I was told harbinger was nerfed in this edition of the game, but I still want to try, unless she is like totally unplayable.

>>50009276
So, in Mk2, Harby relied on her deep as shit focus pool to protect herself from ranged threats, because she was super easy to kill from range.

With her being a large base and ARM14, she tends to just die against heavy ranged lists, which is what is regarded as nerfed. Her feat also changed, but honestly, that was something she deserved to get.

But the name of the game if you want to run her is protecting her. She needs a shitload of defense against enemy ranged attacks.

>>50009296
So would picking up a devout and templar be wise? Or would the shield guard on both be redundant? Also, is Avatar an autoinclude, I'm assuming?

>>50009027
The base rules allow for two casters no problem though, But I do agree with the main part of your statement, getting some more formats woulda been cool.
1

>>50009027
The base rules have always been designed for two caster play. Rhyas/Saeryn should make this obvious.

>>50009830
>>50010057
The rules allow for it but almost nothing in the game is designed with 2-caster games in mind, which results in them being unbalanced shitfests more often than not, which then leads to nobody actually wanting to play them.

>>50010057
It's designed that way, but it sure isn't balanced that way.

>>50004667
Have nos SoH right now. There still cheap nastyJacks that can cut deep behind the enemy lines and become quite strong with brand of heresy. 2 dervishes against a collosal and BoH can be devastating.

>>50009322
Get visgoth roven. You get 2 shieldguards for 9 points.
Paladins with vilmont are good too.

>>50010138
>>50010194
So? The game should be balanced for the tournament standard. Trying to tune tournament level balance for two formats at once is a recipe for failure. The game accommodates two casters in fun games just fine.

anyone looking to get some cephalyx? I have some to get rid of and the local scene isn't getting me anything
both casters
2 monstrosities
3 of both infantry units
3 agitators
1 overlords unit

>>50010256
>So?
Just saying.

>>50007973
Nailed it.

>>50008589
+3 def is very shit when your titans have -2 def this edition. It's one of the biggest marks against Mord for me.

>>50009027
>and they've been honest about their mistakes and issues
After flat out ridiculing their playerbase for saying Mk3 had serious issues.

>>50008724
Khador gets by fine on 10/20 with no ARM buffs (outside of a two feats).

>>50010512
>The faction with higher base ARM than anyone else gets by fine with no ARM buffs
Yeah because their jacks have a fucking built in buff giving them +1ARM. I swear to fucking god Khador jacks should have a rule saying that melee attacks automatically hit them. The fact that they just flat out get away with having 10DEF like Skorne and Menoth is just unfair when they have higher ARM.

>>50010538
Did you just say that def 10 was too high? Also arm 20 isn't even that good. The only time I've ever had it matter was against less experienced players who under commit and fail to remove the jack, and you can not believe how many times I've shot a Khador heavy off the table with the devil dogs with minimal support.

>>50009265
Trolls actually field a lot of different casters, with eMadrak being like 5th in terms of popularity. Cryx got hit too hard, but as somebody who did okayish in mk2 but never won against Cryx I savour the tears. If CoC's new release would be good it would probably become an autoinclude and poeple would still complain. Doesn't change the fact that a well played CoC, that is where you don't clock yourself, is bonkers.

>>50010758
>ARM20 isn't even that good
Top fucking KEK right there lad. It isn't that DEF10 is too high, it's that DEF10 on top of huge ARM is dumb. Skorne and Menoth have to suffer with the same DEF and less ARM.

>>50010331
Why are you shooting your own troop for the soul token?

>>50010941
>Menoth have to suffer with the same DEF and less ARM

I play Menoth, and this argument is dumb, because there's no way in hell that "having the Choir in faction" is inferior to "+1 ARM to jacks across the board".

>>50011636

Try adding four points to all your warjacks.

>it's convergence that really have the problem in the focus-factions, anyway

>>50010538
All in all khador have little support for their jacks and jugger cost is 12 compared to GLORIOUS CRUSADER and GLORIOUS CRUSADER will burn the dirty infidels in RIGHTEOUS FIRE.
P.S. our casters are way greater than khador's in terms of supporting. Yes, we do not have butcher, but butcher and his boys could be shot off the table.
>>50011698
>its axis that really have the problem
fxd

>>50011636
Don't Protectorate 'jacks also have SPD 5 or some other built in defensive tech, like spell ward, shield guard, or something?

>>50011698
>four points
It really is closer to 1.5p. And Protectorate jacks are good without the choir. They're just amazing with it.

>>50012136
Malekus is so hot, i wonder why my playing table hasnt molten down.
Pow 16 shot with 4 dice?
This how you make Khador Jacks balls shiver in fear.

>>50012594
Wow wow wow calm down nigga what the fuck man whoa wow. Feora, login already.

>>50010889
Whats other casters? All my local troll player drops is mad2 and doomie/ragnor diretrolls spam.

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>>50010454

Yep. "Working as designed".

Tell me how the following got through playtest:

Madrak 2
Kara Sloan
Throws
The tree
Flank
...and much more

Just ridiculous. Bring back DC, offer him bags of money, send Soles down the road to Games Workshop.

>>50010512
Yeah, no shit. I play khador. Khador gets +1 arm and also around +4 boxes, while costing significantly less than warbeasts. Khador is the example that Skorne wishes they could live up to.

>>50010454
Oh, I'm not denying that the MK3 release was a PR nightmare.

Jesus christ all the stupid shit they did. The posts they were making, their reactions to the leaks, the keynote, so much stupid shit on their end.

It's why the playerbase has such a negative response even though it's ultimately still better than Mk2 was, overall. Not by much, but it is there.

But they have just pissed off their entire playerbase so badly with all their fuckups. That's why this errata might make or break them.

>>50013649
>it's ultimately still better than Mk2 was
Mk3 really just feels different than Mk2. Not better or worse. That's part of the source of my disappointment. I as kind of expecting Mk3 to build upon what PP learned throughout Mk2. But it seems that wasn't too much.

>>50013472
fuck no, just kill soles, keep him away from my other game

>>50013685
It's super interesting how much they changed in the transition, and yet the game feels so much the same.

But yea, it doesn't feel like an edition change, just a meta shift. All we got was a rules rebalancing and a game mode basically no one is interested in.

Fuck, they should have played up the fun formats at least. Spell draft, Who's the Boss, all these neat formats that can be fun as fuck and they had to go with fucking Rumble.

>>50013472
My name is exalted and how does I souls?

>>50003792
Right, so like, this list made mincemeat out of the other guy. A single Void Spirit went through 9 guys, coming close to Despoiler and generating another Void Spirit in doing so, who then activated and killed some more guys. Opponent was forced to commit to trying to kill my heavies but maxed himself out. So I finished his remaining un-maxed light and blew his caster off the table.

Then I played with Hexxy1 and my god he's just shit isn't he. This might be skewed by how I was against Wurmwood so couldn't do anything in one of my turns, and his spell list blows my away. His first Hellmouth killed my Bellows Crew and 3 Nihilators. His second killed like 4 solos. It's just such a stupid spell.

>>50014546
>Sorry guys we have no design space left for Skorne
>BUT HERE'S ANOTHER FACTION THOUGH

>>50013452
Ragnor, Doomy2, Calandra, Gunny and eMaddy, somewhat in that order.

>>50014573
Skorne is a faction of models that have already been purchased. Grymkin is a faction of models which have yet to be purchased.

>>50016522
Hilariously the current game disgusts me so much that I jumped to malifaux. Which has filled the niche of weird edgy monsters for me

>>50013180
>Malekus and Feora
> did they fug?

what's the go to way to beat Wurmwood & Cassius? I just got back from a 35pt 2v2 turny where my partner and I placed 2nd he played skarre1 and I played denny2 and our opponents ran Kromac2 and Wurmwood and im sure we would have placed first had we not been matched up against that.

every time I face him its the same story he arcs hellmouth into my infantry, goes for the control and pops feat turn 1 or 2 and im stuck there twiddling my thumbs.

>>50013729
It's not like all that much was needed.

I'm happy enough that Infantrymachine got fixed. People run jacks now. Hordes in general (and Skorne in particular) needs to be brought up to the level of most Warmachine factions, and it's in a great shape.

It just seems odd that "it doesn't seem new" is a dig against it; it was already my favorite tabletop system, they really didn't need to change much, just fix some of the shit around the edges. Problem is there are new edges that still need to be fixed.

>>50018963
oh! and if anyone from the shop is reading this, good games tonight guys, was a blast.

>>50016522
Out of curiosity, are you a Cryx or a Ret player?

>>50019936
Skorne, Khador, Menoth, Mercs, and Convergence.

So who is likely to be the Skorne's next potential conquest?

>>50020230
The only thing Skorne can beat in mk3 is Skorne, so I predict civil war.

>>50020230
Looking at the borders, they only have 3 options: Llael, Cygnar, or the Protectorate.

>>50020367

>Protectorate

I was wondering why they weren't in conflict with them from the beginning.

I remember it being mentioned the Skorne and Protectorate have came to blows over the Skorne's frequent seizing of Protectorate citizens as slaves.

>>50020573
PoM only gives a shit about humans, basically. They have no real opinion on non-humans who don't worship the DW.

Skorne was, because of Vinter, focused on Cyngar for a lot of the invasion, and basically had an unspoken agreement to leave each other alone. Yea, sometimes tempers flared, but neither wants all out war.

Now, with Skorne having shifted it's focus north towards Ios, there's not nearly as much tension along their borders.

>>50020615

As I recall, the Skorne were making Humans their slaves to the point where one of their Warcasters intervened.

>>50020661
Oh, there's no love for each other, most certainly.

Raiding, skirmishes, stuff like that would be common.

But there's no all out war.

>>50018963
There's no real way to beat an AOE7 POW24 blast.

>>50020813
Just send Rasheth and Hexeris to the border and hope they get their traitorous asses killed.

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>>50021576
Makeda did.

>>50009276

You have to protect her from getting plinked to death because Martyrdom, Awe, and her feat all require her to be within 10 inches of the frontline. There are several ways to do this...

1) Block LOS. Actually not too hard. A pair of heavies does the job. Reckoner chassis jacks benefit from Ashen Veil + Awe. Scourge of Heresy negates spells. Choir singing passage on jacks also prevents the opponent from spraying her by targeting the jacks, and sprays are her biggest weakness. This is my preferred way of dealing with her survivability.

2) Shield Guard. Vilmon, Rhoven and Co, Devout, and Templars. Pass on the shot to a shield guard, and martyr the shield guard if need be. Useless against sprays.

3) Vigilant to provide mobile cover. Bumps her up to an impressive Def 19. Useless against sprays.

4) Reclaimer solos and Gorman can set down clouds to obscure LOS and increase defense, Useless against sprays.

5) Madelyn Corbeu can use her Parlay ability to prevent her from being targeted by infantry. Won't save you from non-infantry though. Also useless against sprays that target stuff in front of her or come from non-warriors.

I also like to also a field a "spot remover" or two with her. Something that can get in there and tie up/remove particularly nasty ranged threats (especially sprays). Daughters, Nicia, Allegiant monks, and Reckoners are all good at this.

>>50012149

Some do.

>>50021576
If Issyria, Rahn, and that eyepatch elf couldn't take them, who can?

>>50022134
Ossyan. Have you've been following his tourney runs?

>>50022175
In fluff Rahn would shit all over Ossyan with his eyes closed.

>>50022207
And Rahn can in the tabletop if the ossyan player gets too cocky since his magic protection is not as good as his gun protection. Also Rahn can fuck up his admo with simple knockdown.

>>50022241
Ossyan just feats and blows you off the table from 24" away before then.

>>50022175
Ossyan is getting nerfed in the errata.

>>50022281
Look lets stop talking about dumb shit and get back to skorne.

>>50021947
Sprays are ignoring def or something?

>>50016522
Ah, the GW business model.

>>50023409
Can't be shield guarded, so she has to take the shot herself at ARM14.

My TEP murdered Harby from full health one time, was hilarious.

So, where do I have to go to find 3D printable models for the game? Been looking for quite some time and I can't find anything.

>>50023523
There aren't any.

>>50023536
Lame.
How much does someone have to pay someone else to make them or... However the fuck they are created.

>>50021947
yeah so you don't matyrdom your life away.
by being not dudespam. and using that there juicy 10foc to run some jackies down the enemies' nasal canals.

seriously fuck menoth and all their unplayable, worse than idrians, weapon master, special abilities through the butt-brush infantries.

>>50023472
So it just ignores cover? INB4 i never played a single game yet.

>>50023604
Sprays ignore the vast majority of anti-shooting abilities and terrain modifiers.

>>50023604
Sprays ignore basically everything that isn't a special rule.

Concealment, Cover, Stealth, target in melee, LOS when clouds are involved.

They also hit everything under the template, so you can shoot past an enemy model screening something.

You can even get past can't be targeted, because you can just spray something else and as long as the template is over the model it's fine.

>>50023669
But it does not auto-hit, so DEF is applied, right?

>>50023730
have you considered reading the rulebook?

>>50023730
Yes, DEF applies, it's still a ranged attack.

>>50023444

Oh this blows... Now they actually want to sell shit?!? I didn't join this game because of some shitty idea like this!

I want;

>Free rule books
>Free faction books
>Free deck cards
>Cheap models
>free models with magazines

If you can fix this, Ill still wine like a little bitch, and secretly cry on how bad my economy is....

Did I overdo it anon?

>>50024193
>PLEASE NERF MY FACTION INTO IRRELEVANCE SO I CAN BUY ANOTHER GOBBLE GOBBLE OH GOD I LOVE COCK

>>50024461

Its a business anon, not charity.
I'm not defending the nerf/buff system they got going, but it has been around for decades and in more markets than just this one.

Its not good, but what would be an alternative business model for this hobby? It sells models that stands the test of time, and once you got them, you stop investing. They simply need to sell stuff to make a profit. This is why we saw plenty of nerf/buff fixes to many factions just to increase sales on some things, while decreasing others.

>>50024525
Spitting on existing customers is bad business practice. If they want to sell models, all they have to do is buff existing bad models no one owns like the Rhinodon. Bam, people want to buy shit they need. The new faction achieves nothing.

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>>50021947
Thanks for the tips anon. Is there any other way to not die to sprays? Or is it just kill the sprayers basically?

Also, I have been working on a 25 pt list to build/buy into. Figured I'd start there to get used to more than just battlebox games. Any input or advice would be appreciated.

Harbinger of Menoth - 24 WJ pts
- Devout 9 pt
- Templar 15 pt
- Hierophant 3 pt
Choir (min) 4 pt
Knights Exemplar 9 pt
- Knights Exemplar Officier 5 pt
Paladin of the Order of the Wall

My friends recommended me the knights exemplar as I was clueless on which infantry would be good for her. Was that a good choice? Again, any tips or advice would be great, I'm pretty damn lost.

>>50023744
K thanks.
>>50023743
Yep but we are arguining about all the stuff all the time. So we occasinally skip one set of rules to another to grumble about it.

>>50024551
What if, and I'm just spitballing here..

Do both?!

>>50024551
New faction might provide a new different approach or playstyle. Like it could maybe actually do a functional counterpunch without being unbalanced.

It could be a different combination of existing mechanics and rule sets which produces entirely different interactions and combos.

Or it could be just a bunch more models that have the flavour and stylings that the disenfranchised spoopy crybabies of cryx need. If they all haven't bandwagoned into another faction already.

>welcome to mcbanetown

Let us all pray to thamar that they don't fuck up.
Again.

>>50023409

Sprays ignore stealth, and defense bonuses from concealment, and cover. They also can't be shieldguarded.

You can get the elevation defense bonus against sprays though.

>>50025427
Fuck the Ret Discordia with its fucking braindamage 10"spray...

>>50025169
>Like it could maybe actually do a functional counterpunch
Suck a fucking dick that's where Skorne is meant to be at.

>>50025081
That is outside their competence levels.

So I own 6 Skorne warlocks, and I'm unsure of who exactly to pair together. Here's who I have and what I think they do best.

>pMorg
ARM cracking
>pMakeda
Anti-gunline
>Naaresh
Flag/Zone control
>Mordikaar
Anti-infantry
>pXerxis
Brick
>pHexxy
Anti-infantry/Hordes

Do I just bring pMorg and Mord?

>>50027114
The only ones in that list that are bad are pHexxy and pMakeda. The other four are in the top third of skorne casters.

Your pairing needs to be determined by your meta, we don't know your meta. pMorg and pXerx are probably the best two of what you have there, but Naaresh is competitive as well and Mordikaar is great if you can get full use out of despoiler and the void spirits.

>>50027580
Well no one at my LGS really spams heavies, so I probably won't need pMorg. There's one Ret player who loves gunlines, and most people tend to bring infantry, so I think Mord is definitely worth bringing. Then I think pXerxis because if there's no shooting to blow the Agonizer away, ARM24 infantry with a slew of other shit is just gonna walk forwards and kill everything.

pXerxis and Mordikaar it is.

>>49993876

Everyone always says Khador due to high Armour, high health and pretty straight forward casters that specialize into niche builds or bring a character jack bond. There's also not much to learn as outside of feats most casters are only doing things like giving +2 spd or cover or whatever.

Due to this I feel it's Menoth that's a good starter army as they have a bit of everything and teach basic things you have to learn to get even half-decent at the game.

Synergy is key for almost all the armies and Menoth was the king at it. But since Mk 3 it's not completly reliant on it any more. Menoth has spread out a bit now to get its thumb in nearly every pie; it's got a splash of area denial, movement shenanigans, aoe's, persistent effects, a good range of Jacks, Jacks with Arc Nodes, Fighter Casters, Assassin Casters, Spell Slingers. Light, Medium and Heavy infantry, Mounted units, Spray units, Single solos, cohort solo's etc etc. You name it Menoth has it.

The downside is you miss out on alot of psychology effects which can really fuck you up when you do have to face them, and their character jacks are largely either too self-sufficient or the bond is a bit meh that you can take em or leave them without any real thought about it.

>>50028133
>Menoth is the king of Synergy

Convergence says hello.

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>>50028162
But no one cares about Convergence. They're not even a real faction.

>>50028391
They're one of the better factions in terms of power, so I don't buy that.

Don't you 404 on me, there's still Skorne moaning to be done. Don't you just love how the Cannoneer's AOE was bumped up to 4 to deal with infantry but the Sentinel's stayed at 3? It's like they think you can somehow assassinate with this low RNG low RAT ROF1 shot.

>>50029801
Don't forget the useless amount of FURY on the Cannoneer.

>>50029891
Useless? You can animus, boost the hit, boost the damage on the target or the splash on a solo. And if you want fluff, cannoneers are female, thus not as aggressive. And come on man, it's a fucking ranged model.

>>50029891
Well if you're shooting with the cannoneer you generally don't need more than three, unless you want to boost all the blast damage.

>>50029891
As a skorne player that hates what the faction is the cannoneer is perfect. Maybe it could lose a point or pick up arcing fire, but it's otherwise perfect.

What are the best novels from the Iron Kingdoms? I'm mostly interested in the Minions (Crocs and Porks) and monster in general, and I just finished Extraodinary Zoology (and was surpisingly good, fast, fun and flowing).

>>50030534
I don't really think there's much in the way of minions novels. Hordes in general really.

The best one is Butcher's book.

>>50030615
Thanks bro.

>>50025427
Also, they can only spray 3" into a forest.

>>50030534
the Iron Kingdoms Excursions has a few stories that focus on Minions.

"Mouths to Feed" is about swamp gobbers

"Get Gone” is about farrow

while not the excursions Unleashed Legends: Blood in the Water is about Alten Ashley a trog and a gator doing some monster hunting.

and that's all I can think of right now.

>>50026851
Yes.
>meant to be at

Your dick could be any flavour and you choose it to be salty.

There are so many factors, ie the entire faction, that are getting in the way of skorne being counterpunch the faction. On part because much fluff much lore. And the new faction could not have any of those issues. Not necessarily any lore to adhere to, no existing themes or mechanics. Everything in the faction could be made better by being injured like a gorax or that one vlad, or simply everything has that menoth thing and vengeance.
Pp could completely rewrite skorne and achieve counterpunch. But they're far more likely just balance them to be not shit while keeping the existing design, style, and mechanics.

Sorry could not find a dick to suck. Have you not seen my teeth? No one is that brave. Not even hoksune could drive someone to such a feat of courage as to put their precious benis there.

Legion of Everblight good starter faction?

>>50031996
Skorne have always been designed to be a counter punch faction, they're just shit at making it good.

The whole Mk2 beasts being amazing was a mistake, and that's why they nerfed that shit into the ground.

Does anyone have the cards for Holden in Crossroads of Courage Season 2 yet? My FLGS is hesitating to order the kit until we have enough people signed up. I'm worried that the kit won't get here before we start the league, and wanted people to be able to play anyway.

>>50032729
http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-10-11-2016

Anyone got good ideas for three player matches for the kitchen table?

>>50033387
Just king of the hill it or use 6 control points.

>>50032276
Not really no. Good starter factions are probably Khador, Protectorate and some Mercs I would think.

>>50028391
K. Totally weak and underperforming faction. Totally.

>>50032276
Just buy a fucking faction there's no such thing as a good starter faction.

>>50010758
>arm 20 isn't even that good
Okay, so you're fine if Titans get ARM20? Cause I sure would be.

>>50011636
>I play Menoth, and this argument is dumb, because there's no way in hell that "having the Choir in faction" is inferior to "+1 ARM to jacks across the board".
Yeah, being immune to (most) shooting is pretty good. I'd also be fine with 10/19 if we could somehow achieve that.

>>50010512
>Khador gets by fine on 10/20 with no ARM buffs
That's also because their heavies are generally cheaper than Titans. If a Khador player gets a Juggernaut and a Destroyer shot off the table he lost 28p. If a Skorne player loses a Gladiator and a Cannoneer he list 31p. That difference isn't huge, but relevant. Same with boxes. 4 more boxes isn't that crazy, but it adds up. Being cheaper, having more boxes and having more armor adds up to a lot more survivability.

>>50024525
>Its a business anon, not charity.
And I distinctly remember paying for my Skorne models. Now, would you consider it too rude for a costumer to expect their purchased models not to be nerfed to utter shit?

>>50011636
Turns 1-3 your Choir makes you immune to shooting. Turns 1-3 my Beast Handlers make a full advance. And Menoth jacks are faster than Skorne beasts. There's no redeeming aspect to our beasts when any heavy can kill another heavy in one activation.

>>50029891
Oh come on. There's a lot of shit in Skorne, but the Cannoneer is exceedingly okay.

>>50037114
Menoth 'Jacks are not, in fact, faster than Skorne beasts. There are plenty of problems with Skorne, but making that comparison is just ridiculous.

>>50033110
Weren't there also supposed to be 2 insiders per month about the coming errata? Because if so, there should have been one last week.

>>50037243
There are quite a few that have base spd 5. Any skorne beast with spd higher then 4 is pretty much trash atm.

Oh and least people forget it's not just def/arm to consider, warbeast also tend to have less hit boxes then jacks.

>>50037530
Sure, in a vacuum some Protectorate 'jacks have speed 5, but outside of one caster they have a real problem with pathfinder and increasing movement, something Skorne can at least fix with literally any warlock.

>>50038688
Rush is the only animus in Skorne though.

>>50002566
I feel like there are a lot of different ways you could go with it, especially on the Mercs side. If I wanted to make it as broadly mercenary as possible - instead of pirates, or dwarves, or llael, or Magnus - I'd probably start with MacBain, with a Nomad, Talon, and Vanguard, assuming they'd fit in a 0-point battlegroup.

>>50038779
And Protectorate has no animi at all. I think a Protectorate 'jack brick is definitely stronger than a Skorne beast brick, but threat range is definitely on the side of Skorne.

>>50037119

I'll endorse that; "exceedingly ok". The only criticisms I've got on the Cannoneer are, in order:

>man I wish I could have afforded a Rush-bot Gladiator, not that I actually need the melee attacks, I just want Rush right now
>another damage boost would really hit the spot right now
>stop hitting my cannoneer dammit couldn't you people miss? Or at least wiff on damage?

But in the end I'm pretty damn content about it. Which is a hell of thing in Skorne, let me tell you. Get a Cannoneer if you don't have one, rip up your second gladiator to make one if you kept the kit parts.

>>50039553
>>50037119

Also give credit where it's due on making the secondary titans MAT6. Worth a boost against the right target in the end. I know it's just bringing things up to standard with every other faction but that shouldn't be taken for granted.

>>50039553
Yeah the Cannoneer will not win a shooting duel with anything in its price category. 10/19 on an expensive beast is just terrible. But it does just fine as a shooting piece in a balanced list.

>>50039626
Yeah, Mat6 on the Cannoneer is good. I don't think it's good enough on dedicated melee beasts, especially since the faction has no good hit-fixer outside of Rasheth's feat.

gettin real spooky on the pp tumblr

>>50038688
And that one caster can rush his entire battlegroup for 3 focus. Skorne pays 2 fury per beast to do it. Also mobility has twice the range that rush does.

>>50041549
You've got mobility on faction man.

>>50039512
To be fair, "Protectorate Jack Brick" is roughly equivalent to "Amon", and Amon's *slow* jacks are SPD 6 Pathfinder with Parry. Before counting in Synergy and Fortify.

Honestly I think a big part of the problem is the combination of Warmachine budget heavies being too good (or Hordes budget heavies being too bad) and Hordes not having any beast casters that *really* compete with Warmachine's top jack casters (and if anything, they got worse -- Kaya2 lost free charges? wtf?)

I'm just hoping Amon avoids the nerf bat in the errata

>Snipe in Cygnar
Target unit/model gets +4RNG to its ranged weapons.

>Snipe in Skorne
The spellcaster gets +4RNG to its ranged weapons.

>>50041641

>cost 3 spell on a Fury 5 huge based warlock.

Don't rub salt in the wound, please. Xerxis2 is one of the few things in Skorne I'm legitimately upset about.

>>50043461
>one of
What are the others?

>>50043461
He was getting to the point of being good in Mk2.

Hopefully he'll get better in Mk3 when the errata hits.

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>Not taking this downtime between Mk3 and Mk3.1 to finish basing your mediocre infantry
Come on guys.

>>50043577

Zaal2's feat getting nerfed was a slap in the face considering he was considered mediocre in a theme list that doesn't exist in Mk3 anyway.

Immortals getting nerfed to Def 10 AND requiring a soul to be spent to get the movement bonus was also fucked. I swear PP doesn't realize that a lot of the things in Mk2 that were over the top were completely fine once you removed theme forces: Bradigus, Cataphracts spam, Immortals Spam, Troll Lights, etc.

>>50044018
My main gripe is everything surrounding Makeda1. She was a solid support warlock with no gimmicks. Then her feat was nerfed, her spell slave was removed, her spell list was gutted, and her character beast was made unplayable.

Then they removed her combo strike.

>>50044018

DEF11 on Immortals, but yeah. It took some doing to turn Immortals getting Soul Vessel into a net nerf, but in the end they just barely managed to pull it off.

>>50044018

The Immortals Spam theme forces didn't actually do much of anything for Immortals other than providing a magic feather for taking so many of them in the first place. But it turns out fairly-strong/fairly-tough/more-than-you-can-handle actually asks a question.

It's probably still a thing if people are willing to risk trying it on the table.

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STORM RAPTOR WHEN

>>50044693
Right after the Desert Hydra.

>>50044476
It gave them AD, which was huge.

>>50043461
>only legitimately upset about a few things

So why are immortals even on the battlefield? They've escaped death, what reason do they have to fight now?

The WHAC text for Soul Taker: Gatekeeper says that "When a friendly living faction model is destroyed while in this model's command range, this model gains the destroyed model's soul token." Does that mean multiple models can gain soul tokens from the same model being destroyed?

>>50045584
Prime p. 60 "ome special rules allow models to gain corpse tokens and soul tokens when a model is destroyed; other special rules allow models to claim and spend certain tokens. A model generates only one of each type of token when destroyed. If multiple models are eligible to claim a specific token as a result of the destruction of a model, the nearest eligible model claims the token."

>>50045500
They died warriors, and they are exalted to serve as warriors forever.

>>50045852
So you either die a warrior, or you live long enough to never see yourself stop being a warrior?

>>50045897
Skorne are nothing if not fatalistic.

>>50045897
For the Skorne, if you die your soul goes to effectively hell. It drives them insane from the torment - hence void spirits. The only way to avoid being sent there is to place your soul in a sacral stone whether it be communal or singular. Alot of Skorne culture is based on avoiding this. They found magic through blood and pain, as they had no god to gift them it. This lead to the eventual discovery of the extoller caste and by extension immortals/ancestral guardians.

>>50046881
Nigger I know that, I was just trying to turn it into a Batman reference.

>>50046881
You made a mistake there.

Skorne souls don't go to a hell, they go to nothingness. The void is pure emptiness, the space between worlds.

>>50046929
Joke's on you, Skorne souls go to the Cryxian BANE ZONE, where they rip angry souls from the void to then throw them into BANEZ.

>>50047011
Skorne void and Bane void are implied to be different places, actually.

>>50046929
It's theorized that the void is part of urcaens wilderness but it's open to interpretation. It's definitely not the bane zone though

>>50045331

Fine, I'll change it to: "only autistic-ally upset about a few things"

>>50014109
What was your Hexxy 2 list?

>>50038688
>PoM can choose from several spd 5 heavy jacks
>Skorne need to always include one warbeast in every list to make up for their shitty stable of heavies. One that's only useful in the front lines, but if it dies, we lose the animus.

Yea it's awesome having like half my list already picked out before I even decide on a warlock because skorne relies on so much support pieces just to be okay at something.

>>50044824

One gave Ancestral Guardians AD (which they need put on their card right the hell now), the other extended the army deployment zone two inches.

>>50049830
The AD thing on guardians was nice, but the real benefit of the tier was giving all your soulwards, marketh, and immortal advocates 3 souls to start with. That was a huge benefit.

>>50049571
Well in all fairness every Skorne list should start with 2 Gladiators and a Cannoneer. Then a min handlers, a Void Spirit, and Orin Midwinter. After that you can start list building.

>>50048541
Assuming you mean my Hexxy1 list, this is it.

>(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+29]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Agonizer [7]
- Razor Worm [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]

It would've been fine if not for how Hellmouth is an AOE7 POW24 blast that removes the models from play. The game actually went a lot better than it could've honestly. I ended up with a decent shot at winning the game on points but couldn't quite clear a zone of stones with Spirit Leeches. Fun fact, Spirit Leech takes fury off a model, and Sentry Stones have fury on them. But in the end I was just ground down too hard by Hellmouths completely wiping out my small base models, Stranglehold taking my Bronzeback out of the game completely, and losing a complete turn because of that fucking feat. I swear on feat turn I killed like 3 Mannekins and that was it. I've since revamped my Hexxy1 list to:

>(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+29]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Aradus Soldier [18]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]

>Xerxis
>Military genius
>Fury 5, 10" control range

>Irusk
>Military genius
>Focus 7, 14" allocation range, warjacks can operate independantly beyond allocation range

Yeah warcasters and warjacks aren't considerably better than warlocks and warbeasts. Sure.

>>50051610
Thanks for sharing the list. I don't know why I typed Hexxxxyyy 2

>>50051775
PS if you're considering running a Hexxy yourself, don't bother with a Razor Wurm. Just channel with whatever you have upfront like a Gladiator, and spend the 7 points on something useful.

How do I make the front page of the catalog stop blinking? WTF, 4Chan?

Ahh, another beautiful day in the Skorne General thread. How are you anons?

>>50052133

Salty.

>>50052133
I charged 5 Nihilators at a heavy and only dealt 3 boxes to it, then 3 Nyss Swordsmen spiked on my Gladiator and one rounded it.

>>50052634
Reminder that weapon master is cancer. It should be +2 to damage rolls, not a complete extra dice.

>Models with a bigger front arc overhang than their melee range
YAMERO

>>50051697

>Mohsar
>Powerful druid
>Fury 8, 16" control range, playable now

>Asphyxious
>Was a powerful druid before becoming an even more powerful lich and spending centuries improving himself
>Focus 7, 14" control range, active dumpster fire hurr durr

Did I do it right, anon?

>>50053253
It's more that fury/focus being tied to control range is complete cancer.

How agile are jacks fluff wise? Would something like ww2 tank traps stop or slow them down or would they just walk/climb over them?

>>50053278
Most should be able to deal with it. Sure, it'll slow them down, but they have close to the dexterity of a clumsy human (of course this depends on cortex) combined with the strength of a tank. They'll manage.

>>50053253
Lich2 might be shit, but Lich3 is v good

>>50053297

That makes sense. Im going to be making terrain for my table and was thinking about what sort of obstacles there would reasonably be. I know trenches are common and you might have barbed wire to stop infantry and cavalry. But I am not sure about what you would do to try and slow down or stop jacks.

>>50053348
>But I am not sure about what you would do to try and slow down or stop jacks.
Rough terrain. Or a forest. You could just make big caltrops and say they're impassable terrain for warnouns.

So, anyone plays the RPG? How is it?

Thinking of dropping this list for my Spell Draft this weekend.


Skorne Army - 50 / 50 points

(Hexeris 2) Lord Arbiter Hexeris [+27]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Razor Worm [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
Void Spirit [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]

>>50055382
>Drop
Bronzeback
Brute
PGMT

>Add
Gladiator
Gladiator
Bellows Crew

>>50055516
Why two gladiators? This is spell draft. That means there's no animi unless I draft them.

I'm actually thinking of dropping the PGMT and trading the two titans out for a mammoth, since it'll have pathfinder. I can fill the last point with a gobber chef.

>>50055590
Even without the animus, they're the most cost efficient beatstick in Skorne.

>>50055594
Regardless, not comfortable going without a shield guard.

>>50055613
Why spend 8 points to stop one shot when you can spend 2 points to just block LoS to Hexxy?

>>50055627
Yeah, because true sight doesn't exist. I'm in a cygnar heavy meta.

>>50055636
>I'm in a cygnar heavy meta
So nigger just play Mordikaar. You don't have to draft his Elite Cadre, and your Void Spirits will rip through his army. On average rolls you'll one shot a Storm Lance without even charging.

>>50055667
Mordikaar doesn't really function without being able to get souls from hollow. Hexy2 is my caster, I'm just trying to decide how to run him.

>>50055735
>Mordikaar doesn't really function without being able to get souls from hollow
Mordikaar doesn't function anyway so fuck it, squeeze that elite cadre dry because against infantry it makes Storm Lances look fair and balanced when it works.

I'd say run Hexxy2 similar to how you'd run Mord desu senpai. Ashes to Ashes, Orin, and the Cannoneer will make mincemeat out of any infantry, leaving you with lots of points left over to crack armour. I'd even question whether you need the Cannoneer.

>(Hexeris 2) Lord Arbiter Hexeris [+27]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Aradus Soldier [18]
- Razor Worm [7]
Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Void Spirit [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]

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>>50037109

If you are interested in a product, you make a purchase, its that simple. No one is forcing your hand here anon, and you must come to realize this.
PP, or any other company has no obligation to do anything to pleasure you personally, or any other player who feels displeasure from their product. You knew what they where when you bought them, and you may still use them as such (granted you must first find a group that plays Mk2 to do so).

What people in general must come to accept is that if they buy something, its up to them. You are no handicapped brain damaged child with no free will of your own now are you? Good, then you are also responsible for your own actions, including buying models.

As I stated before, I don't defend the nerf/buff business style, but its been around for ages, and will probably be around for a good while more if we want to see this type of games keep on coming. What I do defend though, is that you, no one else, is responsible for how you spend your money and time. If you don't enjoy it, why keep at it? If you enjoy it (be it playing or another hobby aspect), good for you! But don't go blame anyone else for your actions (because lets fact it, its not like Skorne rocked your world, ruleswise in mk2. So don't give me that crap about "when I bought it it was cannon!").

>>50055874
Again, this is spell draft. Hexy doesn't get ashes to ashes.

>>50057314
>Hexy doesn't get ashes to ashes
So why are you using Hexxy2? Were casters drafted? Because there's MUCH better shit you could be doing with an uncertain spell list. Mord's Void Spirits, Xerxis1's battle plans, Naaresh's really high WB points and solid feat. Why Hexxy2?

>>50057289
>its not like Skorne rocked your world, ruleswise in mk2. So don't give me that crap about "when I bought it it was cannon!"
When I bought it it was playable. Now it's trash. It's really that simple.

>PP, or any other company has no obligation to do anything to pleasure you personally, or any other player who feels displeasure from their product.
Correct. They may however have an interest in having as large a portion of their products as possible viable for play and thus sale.

>>50057407

>When I bought it it was playable

And as I stated, it still is, granted you find yourself a group of mk2. Or you can just dig the situation and go mk3 and accept that you will need to play it way different, and/or buy new shit. Its the way of the nerf/buff system, not defending it, just stating the facts.

>They may however have an interest in having as large a portion of their products as possible viable for play and thus sale.

This however is incorrect. Because you ignore the fact that each and every model you own stands the test of time. Thus one purchase can hold hundreds if not thousands of play time in years to come. No need to buy more, when you already own it. You also greatly overestimate the scale that miniature wargames sells at, no worries, most people on /tg/ seems to think its the only hobby out there. But in truth its a small, and thin crowd with specific games in mind when you compare it to larger more common hobbies (hell, just take a regular board game interest, and you will blow miniature wargames out of the water when comparing the two!).

But I feel for you, it sucks when everything seems like shit (and it truly does in Skorne´s case!). Someone at PP must have had an incident with an elephant as a child or something, or I don't know what to make of it.

>>50057397
Because of field marshal channeler, and a good amount of offensive spells in the draft decks. That's what the razor worm is for.

Out of 64 cards there's bone shaker, rift, hellfire, hex blast, venom, obliteration, spirit fang, arcane bolt, crevasse, ashes to ashes, sunder spirit, calamity, mortality, immolation, stranglehold, muzzle, time bomb, cataclysm, mutagenesis, chain lightning, and razor wind.

There's also plenty of buffs that'd be nice to arc, like roots of the earth.

>>50057528
>You also greatly overestimate the scale that miniature wargames sells at, no worries, most people on /tg/ seems to think its the only hobby out there. But in truth its a small, and thin crowd with specific games in mind when you compare it to larger more common hobbies
Especially then should a company want their entire line to sell well.

>>50057528
This is the exact kind of hyperbolic bullshit that keeps people away from this game. Skorne struggles at a COMPETITIVE level. There are enough good Skorne models to make a competent list to use at your LGS. Hell, some of Skorne's models are actually among the best models in the game at times, as indicated by a #.

>Beasts
Gladiator #
Cannoneer
Soldier
Despoiler #
Agonizer #

>Units
Karax #
Nihilators
Cetrati
Ferox
Bloodrunners

>Solos
Void Spirit ##
Master Tormentor
Extoller Soulward #
Orin Midwinter #
Tyrant Zaadesh #

Sure there's a lot of gash, but all factions have that right now. Skorne's only huge issue is the power level of their casters is easily the worst in the game.

>>50057555
I'm still unsure as to whether it's worth including a Razor Wurm at all. Yes I know what the fuck it does with Hexxy because I've been trying to make Hexxy1 work, but most of the time you're going to have a heavy near the frontlines anyway so can just channel through that.

>>50057740
I don't really see a lot of value in trying to channel off of melee heavies, because that means that I'm not engaging with them.

>>50057777
No one blindly runs their melee heavies in. There's always posturing. And in that posturing, you sling shit to force your opponent to come towards you. Or you could consider an Aradus Sentinel on or near the frontlines. It can just walk backwards out of combat due to Carapace to takes its own shot, which frees it up for Hexxy to channel through.

It could be easier to just use the Wurm, but 7 points is a lot when you're playing a smaller point game.

>>50057595

The problem isn't a single model line. The problem lies there is not enough new blood to the hobby.

Let me introduce you to the aspects of time.
When I first came in to contact with miniature wargames, about 20 years back, it BLEW MY FUCKING HEAD! I could not believe how so much awesomeness could exist in one place! I raced home, and called my best friend, and within a week we had our very own WHFB starter. The model I saw, and got a description about was a Dark Elf plastic miniature (you know the "mono-posed" plastic with a sword and shield).
Do you think any kid, today, would get this reaction? No, they wouldn't. Because today, this hobby is competing against fucking full home VR systems, and hobbies that will blow your fucking mind. I'm talking stuff I couldn't even comprehend as a kid, stuff I would never believe to exist 20 years ago. At least not in this scale and price range.

So to conclude, this industry is, what ever /tg/ may tell you, bleeding dry. Its a dying animal, trying to catch a breath, and it needs to get money. To do this, they try to "lure" new blood in, with exiting "cheap" starter sets, simplified rules and a "have a go" attitude, instead of expensive entry and play it like you got a pair. Once caught, there might be some spending initially, but you never spend as much as you do during your first 2-3 years. After this, you, as I stated, already own your shit (and more) and don't really need to spend more if you don't want to. Now you got stuff that will hold for a good 10-15, hell 20 years to come, no need to spend.
To get you spending again, the nerf/buff system is put in to place, to try and squeeze you for the last few bucks on the stuff that wasn't good before, but is now. Combine this with a tournament setting, where your "friends" pummel you each and every game, and you have an attitude to get new stuff to hit them back.

>>50058215
>this industry is, what ever /tg/ may tell you, bleeding dry

As of 2016, 7 consecutive years of year-over-year growth of miniature game sales.

Admittedly, it's dwarfed by video gaming, but seeing as how miniature gaming (and the more popular board gaming) seems to be largely fueled by a rejection of the... remoteness of video games, it's not "bleeding dry".

>>50057740

>This is the exact kind of hyperbolic bullshit that keeps people away from this game.

What keeps the players away from the game is that most "regulars" don't even know it exists. Its an outdated industry that drives on 3 things people don't want to spend;
>money
>time
>effort
All this combined with a great deal of effort is not a winning concept in the age of McDonalds fast food thinking. People wants a fast rush of fun, and they get this far more and faster with other hobby activities.
So, we already know, to get new blood is hard for a hobby such as this.
As stated, I feel for the Skorne player´s that the rules writers have given them shit rules for now, but it will change in time. Not because of you, or any other whiner, but because it might create a opportunity for income to the company, have no illusions of this.

>>50058358
The concept that PP is run solely for the sake of money is countered by the fact that more than once in the past PP has released terrible models or refused to make changes because they felt that it didn't fit their vision of the game.

Indeed, the entire problem with Skorne can be summed up as them being unwilling to alter how they feel the faction should operate on the table, even though it would make them more viable.

We has to practically pull teeth to even get them to admit their concept was flawed.

A company only interested in making money would see no reason to do that, or so stubbornly stick to their guns in the face of the community.

>>50055342
I like it a lot. It helps that all my players play Warmachine, so they already have all the basic mechanics down

>>50058308

And the "common man" has more money to spend on shit than ever before. Thus, he spends it on more stuff surrounding the miniature wargame hobby, when everything is growing, nothing is really moving. So yes, while it has grown according to your non-link "facts", you have to accept that every other aspect of the hobby universe has also increased. And probably way more than the miniature wargame hobby.

If you for example have $5, and I have $10. Then all of a sudden you acquire another $5... it isn't worth shit if I just got another r$100, you get what I'm saying? Miniature wargames is a fly on the wall in comparison to the whole of hobby aspects of todays market.

>>50058424
>how they feel the faction should operate on the table
Skorne doesn't operate in any particular way on the table though. Titans are just uninteresting beatsticks, our infantry have no weird or interesting rules, and are fairly middle of the road in terms of stats. I mean Nihilators have Berserk, but loads of factions have that.

There's nothing about Skorne that screams "MUH HOKSUNE" honestly.

>>50058424

They have already stated they found the Huksone (didn't I spell that right?) was hard to translate to game rules, so why all this "ignore the player base"?
My first thought when they decided to buff ranged units and other "not so much used" units, while nerfing the only used units was sales score. Someone in the marketing division definitely had a finger to play in that part, no matter if the core team had that will or not!

And while it might not be solely run for money, it needs money to progress, its as simple as that.

>>50058515
This has been discussed quite a bit.

Skorne is meant to operate as a counter punch faction, a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of thing.

They want Skorne players to build lists that lose half their army, but get tons of benefits from doing it.

Does it translate super poorly? Shit yea it does, between it being a very difficult style of play to get right on the table and such a reactive one, it's terrible to actually make work in an interesting manner, but they seem intent on trying.

>>50058515
The problem with that logic is that tons of shit that was already good stayed good, far more than shit bad shit that got good.

The gunline issue was a consequence of premeasuring with no downside alongside with a lot of little choices that just added up.

>>50058563
>The gunline issue was a consequence of premeasuring with no downside
Yeah I don't get this. In Mk2 guns basically had -2RNG because you always wanted to play it safe to make sure you were in range. Premeasuring basically gave semi-Snipe to everything.

>>50058642
The only issue is the modular movement.

Like, in a hex based game, you can get perfect range as well, but you have to actually give up ground to do so. That and range modifiers discourage simply sitting at the max possible distance.

One easy fix, I think, would to just half all weapon ranges in the game, and let models shoot up to double the distance. But if they shoot past their normal distance, it's something like -2 to the roll.

Half might be too drastic, but that's the basic concept.

>>50058675
I can fix shooting in two easy steps.

1. Making a full advance reduces RNG by 4 until end of turn
2. Failed charges no longer let you make your assault shot

>>50058894
Assault is not the issue at all with shooting right now.

>>50058915
It's not, but that doesn't mean it isn't outright retarded that a failed charge still lets you shoot, giving units like Invictors (see: problem units) pseudo +3RNG. It would be necessary with my first point though as a charge isn't a full advance. Unless you just combined it until "Moving during your normal movement gives you -4RNG".

>>50058675
You could also implement something akin to what AT-43 did and use a range-band. Every 10cm (roughly 4 inches) was marked off in order, 0-12. Each unit's ranged weapon had value corresponding to a band number, which was where the weapon was accurate up to (I.e., a weapon with a value of 5 would need to roll 4+ on anything within the 5 band, 41-50cm) With an accuracy of 5, shooting within 4 would hit on 3+, and within 3 would be 2+, and anything below that would automatically hit (before modifiers), and vice versa.

This would set limits to how far weapons could be fired, and what ranges they are actually effective at. Unfortunately, Warmahordes rules isn't set up to handle combat in such a fashion, so we're either left to use house-rules or pray that an alternative within the existing system can be established.

>>50058931
The problem is that super breaks some units who depend on assault to make their ranged attacks.

Does anyone have pictures of alternative colour schemes for Menoth? I'm currently trying to come up with one and am considering red Menofixes, but I also wanted to use royal purple for cloth/robes and a few high lights.
I'm looking through Cool Mini or Not but haven't seen anything that catches my eye yet, so show me your best paint jobs. Or just colour schemes you really like.

>>50058960
Well it's not like I'd know, I'm a Skorne player. The only model in my faction with Assault is the Mammoth.

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>>50058964
Mine is barely alternate colors. I liked cream rather than white and bright red rather than maroon. I also wanted more silver on the armor, and a high contrast scheme that looks good on the tabletop.

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>>50059087

>>50059087
Very nice. It's a good inspiration, although I'd rather go for a darker red for the Menofix. Mixing Silver and Gold makes everything stand out more, which is great.

>>50059123
Amon needs big and dark nipples though.

>>50059171
It's weird, the model I based my conversion on, the vessel of judgement strongman, doesn't have any. I wasn't sure about sculpting them either.

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>>50059171
Also this one.

>>50059263
Come on man you can't just leave Amon in a Ken doll state.

>>50059283
Maybe I'll use paint to put them on. I'm not sure what to use though

>>50059331
Thamar Black.

>>50059331
Battlefield Brown, with a tiny drop of like coal black or something.

>>50059283
>>50059331
Yeah, Amon definitely needs his nipples

>>50059281
Is the fish scale pattern always on the Hand of Judgment or did you paint it yourself? Can you just let a wash do most of the work here? Really good work.

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>>50059376
>>50059424
Those both sound wicked dark. I was thinking about a medium fleshtone with some sepia wash. This is the back BTW.

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>>50059451
The scallop pattern is molded in there, I used a sepia wash to give it a different tone than the rest of the gold which I used a black wash.

>>50059123
Nice work on the sculpting anon. Are you the same guy who made a Balinese mask for his Morghoul1?

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>I will never be as good at painting as Anon-kun

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>>50059516
I think so? I'm not familiar with the origin of the mask, I just found some good looking ones on Google.

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>>50059538
I also did a fun one for Xerxes, I guess kinda Oni-inspired?

>>50059538
Yeah, that's a Balinese mask. Really like that conversion. Wish I had the skills to pull one off cause I'd love to do a mask for Zaadesh2.

>>50059526
I know your pain anon. I'm shit too.

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>>50058642
>>50058675

'The problem with eye-measure was that, a player like me with 20 years in the sack, could spot a 1/8" with a "guess-shot". While the new kid got left scattered.

Privateer press knew this, and GW has stated it before. It was simply to much of an "unfair" advantage to the new player. They want the game to be easy to new players (what ever you cross eyed inbred veterans might think), and followed the lead of other brands who has done the same to increase sales to new players.

Good/bad, no matter. What matters is that it brings new player in without thinking this is a game that takes time to learn (oh the fools....). New players means new money, and thats the end of it. That they fucked up on gunlines is of minor importance, as long as people are playing and new kids join the ranks.

>>50060074

>I so want to see that scene play out on a table
>And now that mk3 is here, I'm seeing Nyss Legionaires!
>Praetorian Swordmen on the otherhand...

Shit, this is going to be a "Ladyhawk" thing, isn't it?

>>50060074
Pre measuring is nothing but good for the game.

This bullshit is why hex wargames are so much better.