Warmachine/Hordes General - Swamp Hentai Edition

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Alright, bringing this over from last thread.

Design a warjack. Not a colossal or a warbeast, but a good old 'jack. While you are doing so, consider these questions.

>Is it a light or a heavy?
>Which faction built it?
>Which chassis is it based off of?
>What is its weapon combo (sword/gun, spear/shield, etc.)?
>What, if any, special abilities does it have (ex. shield guard)?
>What role might it play in a commander's strategy?
>Is it famed for its economy, or is it an expensive depot queen?

>>49929315
but i all i want is a minion gargantuan or two...

>>49929315
I want a light Menoth jack that throws firebombs and holy smoke around. His weapon should be somekind of bracer like flail that can instead of attacking gove one unit/model concealment for one turn.
I will call him the Acolyte/Altarboy

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

>>49931209
Do people still play WM/H? Died in my area.

>>49929315
Cygnar needs more open fist warjacks, so we're going to do that.

>Is it a light or a heavy?
Heavy
>Which faction built it?
Cygnar
>Which chassis is it based off of?
Reliant/Stormclad
>What is its weapon combo (sword/gun, spear/shield, etc.)?
Two open fists. Thunderhead's shock fists with crit disruption and sustained attack wouldn't be bad. Pow 5 gives the jack two p+s 16 initials. And a ROF 1 short ranged gun. RNG 6 or 8, Pow 14.
>What, if any, special abilities does it have (ex. shield guard)?
Imprint: Tractor Field on the gun. On hit, -4 DEF, cannot run, change, trample or slam.
>What role might it play in a commander's strategy?
Control. And it synergizes with other control effects. SPD debuffs from the SS Grenadiers or Haleys 1 and 2, pushes with gunmages, and slams and slam spells.
>Is it famed for its economy, or is it an expensive depot queen?
It should be the economical production model of Thunderhead. As such, it should be a worse thunderhead, with a different niche.
>How many points would it cost?
15? It's pillow fisted, and it's gun is relatively low POW for being single target, but it has good utility. It might be a bit expensive at 15, though.

So what kind of Cryx list can you build if you don't want to use any of the Satyxis or Pirate stuff and want only the Undead, Warjacks, Lich and War Witch things?

>>49932822
You could build Lich3 running Carrion Thralls instead of the Satyxis as the infantry screen.

That list wants a bunch of jacks and probably two Warwitch Sirens.

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I haven't played in a few years, nor have I played MKIII at all. Tonight one of the local stores does a 35 and 50pt gaming night, so I figure I could get back into the swing of things there.

Here's my list, based on something I ran in MKII. (It's also what I can find that is painted.) Is this still halfway decent?

(Kaya 2) Kaya the Moonhunter [+24]
- Laris
- Feral Warpwolf [18]
- Pureblood Warpwolf [17]
- Warpwolf Stalker [19]
Shifting Stones [3]
- Stone Keeper [2]

also stormburb when

Hey, what do you guys think about my Ossyan list? It's for casual games and I really like the Battle engine, so I'm looking for feedback if the list is too brutal, even with the weird jacks and other models.
I'm mostly playing against Feora2 and Nemo3 with fire and electricity themed lists respectively.

http://conflictchamber.com/#b51b460w0w4leP3x3u3x3y3y3ybC

Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points

(Ossyan 1) Lord Arcanist Ossyan [+28]
- Hydra [15]
- Hydra [15]
- Hypnos [18]
- Moros [11]
Stormfall Archers [9]
- Soulless Escort (1) [1]
Stormfall Archers [9]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcantrik Force Generator [19]

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What faction has your favorite aesthetics - overall flavor and individual model design? And is that the faction you play (or play the most, if you play multiples)?

I go back and forth between about four factions as my favorite aesthetically. I like the variety and modernity of Cygnar's guns, especially on its warjacks, plus the World War I flavor of Trenchers. I like Khador's huge stompy warjacks. Circle's druids, beasts, and wolds all look nice. And it might be easier to list the Trollbloods models that I don't like (although I suspect painting all that exposed skin would be really tough).

I like a few of Skorne's warbeasts and units, but not enough to overcome the awful overall aesthetic. I would like Legion a lot better if its beasts were scaly instead of leathery. I like Protectorate's fire and rocket themes, and I really appreciate that I wouldn't have to paint a lot of skin or faces with them. I could even dig the theocratic theme if the fanaticism and extremism weren't so bad. Cryx and Convergence just don't interest me. Retribution looks alright, but I would not want to try to paint their canon color scheme, with those huge smooth white surfaces - maybe if I was an airbrusher, but I'm not.

I don't play yet, still trying to pick a faction. There is a little bit of a Warmahordes community starting at my LGS.

>>49929626

>mk3 translation

If I can add 2 inches to my snake-throwing distance, my win rate will go up a cool 10%.

Is Raznik2 worth a damn? or does the size really kick him in the dick

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>>49934250
There are a lot of things within Warmahordes that I enjoy aesthetically. Unfortunately, it tends to be a case of either I love it or hate it. For example, I like Cygnaran 'jacks, but I hate most of their heads (specifically the over-emphasized 'angry' look many have). I love Retribution infantry pieces, but I find myrmidons kind of dull. I love Cryxian spider-jacks, but I don't like the Slayer-chassis. Every faction has things you'll like and dislike, so it's typically best to go with the one that you find more positive than negative.

As for those specifics, on Legion in particular it's more of an unknown. They 'could' be scaly, but because of PP's artistic style, ultra-fine details aren't usually done. The smallest they can really achieve is relatively broad-scaled patterns, like with Gators.

As for Retribution, you do not necessarily have to go with the canon scheme. I painted mine based off the color scheme of Blood Elves from Warcraft: predominantly blood red/crimson, off-black and steel secondary colors, gold trimmings, and bright green for the crystals and glowing bits.

>>49928928
When did Warmachine become Hentai?

>>49932822
You can do ok with Knights, Crows and Cavalry. If your meta is Hordes heavy Venethrax loves both fighting Hordes and spamming jacks. Really depends on the kind of environment you're playing in, though it's useful to remember that anything below national level and most likely anything you read on the internet is completely irrelevant to you. Most WMH balance discussion assumes you're playing at the WTC top table every game.

ded game ded thread

>>49939649
So weird. There's tons of people at my local store. Maybe it's just a NW thing?

>>49935964
He's unimpressive. And didn't get betting in Mk3.

>>49936998
>WTC
I'd say any balance discussion has you playing top tables at the country's largest conventions, like Lock and Load or Warmachine Weekend. Anyone talking balance would gladly bring up that, at the WTC, individuals build their pairing with specific intent to counter or dodge certain lists.

>>49929315
The Lumberjack is a laborjack used in the logging industry, occasionally conscripted into combat service. One of the oldest laborjack designs still in use, it is a design from Cygnar. One arm ends in a chainsaw used to cut through tree trunks and logs, the other in an open fist used lift and move logs.

In game terms, it would be a mercenary heavy warjack. Just OK MAT, abysmal RAT, average health for a heavy but ARM more like a light jack. Good STR, good POW and (is the rule called Sustained Attack?) with the saw. The open fist is an open fist.

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>>49934692
If you could add 2" to the effective threat of your snek I bet you would too...

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So what Battle Engines got notable buffs or nerfs in MK3?

>>49942493
Gun Carriage in Khador is fucking amazeballs. Seriously. Try a pair with Butcher 3, Uhlans w/ the solo, Ruin, and a Kodiak. Shit all over everything forever.

>>49942493
TEP got better, which is hilarious beyond belief.

God, if infantry meta was still a thing, the TEP would be a fucking monster.

>>49942693

Poor Convergence. I wonder why they aren't screaming fit to drown out Skorne.

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>>49942493
the Wraith Engine is now useable but I wouldn't call it optimal, at least you can now use the damn thing.

>>49942734
Prime Axiom got better too. In the age of d3 ROF, it's got a flat ROF5, on a RNG13 gun.

>>49942735

What was wrong with it before?

>>49928928
http://textuploader <dot> com / d5jh2

Are you too fucking lazy or stupid to post the right pastie?

>>49942899
I'd imagine the same things wrong with it now. It's like a big expensive slayer without any of the support you can give a slayer. It's fine, I guess, but why would you want to pay for this thing?

>>49942899
a bunch of little things that added up. it could be controlled by the others in certain circumstances, it could only become incorporeal every other turn and being a battle engine it was easy to hit and easy to break, its point cost was absurd for being a fragile heavy that would have a target on its back, it had no ranged options, still doesn't but at least now its more survivable, it had an overreliance on use of souls that really didn't do anything expet place clouds and screw up the soul economy because he had such a large base insuring he would get them first most of the time when another jack or warcaster needed them, etc,etc.

>>49942937
aside from it being cool looking you by it because its a melee heavy with incopreal, which isn't super great anyways since you hit the nail on the head in that its like a big expensive slayer without any of the support you can give a slayer. but hey it can make machine wraiths now.

>>49943110

>screw up the soul economy because he had such a large base insuring he would get them first most of the time when another jack or warcaster needed them, etc,etc.

I'd hate to see what that'd do to some Cryx Caster feats.

>>49943201
lets put it this way you wouldn't take the Wraith Engine in a Terminus list even if he does give the engine tough.

>>49942734

They're doing slightly better than Skorne at the current time by nature of working as designed aren't they?

>>49941534
That would be really cool as a Toro variant.

>>49944746
Thanks. I really like the idea of laborjacks being commandeered for combat use. They may not be specifically designed for killing, but they're still giant robots.

>>49941354
It was just the first major tournament that came to mind, but yeah the WTC format doesn't exactly make for the best general example. Point was and is that players not playing at a national level can generally play whatever the fuck they want and do just fine, this isn't 40k.

So is all the anti-infantry stuff in the game not all that useful now?

>>49943978
He's joking about the fact that Convergence outside of a couple of stuff basically just got buffs.

They lost their recursion mechanic though, which was one of their like, three playstyles.

>>49945152
It's actually more complicated than that.

Cortexes in Laborjacks are far inferior in terms of their ability to think and reason, as well as remember and operate. They're clumsier, dumber, and far more easily distracted and confused.

Like, a warjack can generally be told to do something and it will do it. It might not be the smartest thing around, but if you say "guard this spot against enemies" the jack can reason out friendies from enemies decently well, is smart enough to tell someone else enemies have shown up, and can take proper steps based on the kind of enemy it's facing.

A laborjack can't be trusted with "Move this to there." unless there is right in it's vision, and if you gave it a weapon, it'd likely just drop it the minute a fight starts because it's got no clue what to do with it. Hell, it might not even fight unless it's cortex has picked up some more aggressive quirks.

>>49945965
It's precisely because all the anti-infantry stuff is so useful that we're not seeing infantry.

>>49945620
WTC is likely to show more skewed results, yea, but I think that speaks in it's favor in terms of balance concerns.

Like, the insane win rates of Wurmwood can be pointed to, at least in part, the fact that he's got certain very specific bad matchups that the format allowed him to avoid.

>>49946248
Yeah, saying a 'jack is a 'jack in this context is the same as saying a horse is a horse, then being surprised when your horse freaks the fuck out the moment something out of the ordinary happens while the other horses don't give a shit about anything because they're proper warhorses.

Except your horse is also retarded.

>>49946248
The exception is, of course, Rhulic 'jacks, which are used for working but have good enough cortices and armor to be used in war.

>>49946480
I mean, it's all over the place. Some laborjacks need more complicated cortexes for more involved work, and thus can be adapted better to warfare.

But Rhulic basically just uses warjack quality cores in all their jacks, which is incredibly expensive but Dwarves are incredibly wealthy and have no real enemies.

Warjacks can absolutely be used as laborjacks, provided they don't get pissed off about it.

>>49946353
I always loved the jack growth in the RPG, you offset this incredibly powerful machine by the fact that it's quirks could end up making it do weird shit, and a lot of times wiping the core was far, far too expensive.

I'm going to go dig that chart up now.

>>49946248
I don't know about that, in the RPG you can have your starting laborjack start with a gun arm or something and it does just fine. And the laborjack in the Butcher novel has no problems being directed to kill people.

I am sucker for Alexia Ciannor.
Can any of you guys tell if she is worth picking in her Alexia+Risen version and do a list for that? Pretty uncertain about her.

>>49946618
That's because the new RPG is fucking terrible.

And Warcasters are a whole different bag, because they can directly control a jack.

>>49946643
Didn't say anything about warcasters.

>>49946646
If I'm remembering the scene right, didn't Butcher have control of it?

Beyond that, even laborjacks can pick up some aggressive behaviors. I can't find the good chart, but I think I remember that naval laborjacks were especially prone to it, since they see so many fights, and they end up being short tempered and always itching to scrap.

>>49946665
There's also the point that unless the jack has picked up a quirk to avoid it, they've got no problem with killing shit. They're just retarded about it.

Like,a jack will kill someone just fine, but trying to teach them to use a weapon is usually an exercise in frustration unless you can directly reprogram the cortex.

>>49946665
No, it was a Laika laborjack that got sicced on him and killed most of Butcher's crew. The fight ended with him manifesting his warcaster talent to take control of the laika and make it stop killing everyone.

Also, as a note, once they got the codes to marshal that Laika and before Butcher could control warjacks at will, Lola was Laika's axe that Butcher later took for himself.

>>49946643
>the new RPG is fucking terrible

Only the jacks suck.

Speaking of the new RPG, anyone have any thoughts on the Ironhead career?

>>49946816
I don't know anything about it mechanically. I mean, the original IK is 3.5, so I'm not sure it can be much worse.

But the old books have such better fluff. Some of the changes they made in the new books is really annoying.

>>49946832
Which book?

>>49946863
What did they change in the fluff? And isn't the fluff the same as the stuff in the wargame?

>>49946874
NQ 52

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>>49946897
Mostly changed some history events around, and removed some of the dark humor that was so great.

Like, for example, the new stuff doesn't include jacking, which I always found to be amazing.

>>49946897
Another big change, I think, was the whole issue of the divinity of Morrow.

Basically, Menites refused to accept him as a god, and spent centuries hunting any Morrowans they could find. Finally, they agreed to a peace treaty, and the Menites sent a Scrutator to talk to the Morrowan high priest.

And this is where the fluff divides. In the old book, the Menites intended to have the Scrutator assassinate the priest, which he absolutely did. However, one of Morrow's angels showed up and immediately slayed the killer. Of course, tensions were running pretty high at this point, but shit got really awkward for the Menites when one of Thamar's angels showed up to claim the Scrutator's soul, as it turns out they were a secret cultist.

The Menite priesthood ended up having a bit of a problem on their hands, what with one of their interrogator priests responsible for the ferreting out of heretics being a heretic, and combined with the whole aspect of Morrow showing up to claim the soul of their high priest, had to back down on the whole issue.

In the new fluff, the Menites intended to negotiate in good faith, but the Scurtator was ambushed and murdered by a Tharamite, who pretended to be the priest to kill the Morrowan.

I just think the new stuff doesn't really give the Menites a reason to back off, especially considering that while they regard Morrow as a (lesser) god now, they're still royally pissed off about him and his followers.

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>>49946973
The relevant entry.

>>49945965
If you dont take any at all infantrymachine will still roll right over you. Kara sloan maxing out on hunters and defenders will get utterly raped by Terminus undeadspam, despite meta-wise Kara being in a much stronger place given her abilities and synergies. If she takes a couple of infantry removal tools like a unit of stormlances/tempest blazers/cyclones to back up her anti-arm jacks then its an altogether different story.

>>49946266
>WTC is likely to show more skewed results
In fact, due to the format, WTC will show more balanced results when it comes to faction comparisons.

>>49946973
Wait, there are angels in Warmahordes fluff? I don't remember them

>>49946925
What is jacking.

>>49947245
I couldn't remember what they were called.

They're not angels, per say, but Ascendants. Basically, they're humans who embodied a specific virtue(or in the Scion's of Thamar, a vice) that were granted a sort of pseudo divinity in order to continue their work.

They're basically lesser gods, forming a pantheon. I think Menoth has some as well, to be honest.

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>>49947289

>>49943246
I thought Terminus's special rule trumped everything else's because he's the caster.

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>>49929315
I want to do something with the Basher chassis, but I can't think of anything new for it to do beyond giving it an obvious ramming spike or something.

>>49946832
Be wary of man-sized tunnels and hallways. Our gm liked to use that shit as a way to deprive us of the 'jack we had spent so long earning.

>>49947290
No, I was wrong, just Morrow and Thamar.

Some of the Scions are really fun though. Stacia is really interesting in that she's commonly worshiped by non-Thamarites.

>>49947332
Unless specifically stated otherwise a soul token goes to the closest eligible model that isnt at capacity, Big T doesn't override that either normally or on feat turn.

http://conflictchamber.com/#b90O6QeG6A5G6r5V6a6v6w

Skorne Army - 50 / 50 points

(Hexeris 2) Lord Arbiter Hexeris [+27]
- Aradus Sentinel [16]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Agonizer [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

Doing a 50 point spell draft, thinking of taking this list.

Gives me a solid baseline of heavies with an agonizer to use. If they bring any infantry, then my stuff heals itself as I kill them. If I can draft a nice offensive spell then he'll be able to make use of his fury 7 and field marshal channeler to make great use of it, especially with his feat refilling his fury.

The guy that gives me most trouble locally is a Circle player, usually plays one of the Kayas, sometimes Kromac or Baldur. But I'm also likely to face cygnar. Sentinel should help against both, it'll put a lot of hurt on a warpwolf with its gun and also survive shooting pretty well. Other likely opponents are menoth, trolls, and khador. Since the sentinel and sentry already don't have much in the way of animi, drafting animi isn't a big deal for them and might help. The troll, cygnar, and khador players all play pretty infantry heavy here, with menoth and circle running just battlegroup + support (though menoth sometimes throws in some idrians or errants, and likes using vengers). Also have a convergence guy that might show up, he always plays syntherion. There's one Ret player in the meta but I don't think she's shown up to a single mk3 event so far, she just gets odd games in on weekdays.

>>49947295
Holy shit thats brutal

>>49947289
you had to ask didn't you?

>>49946623
so build an entire force around her and her little gaggle of spoopies?
>snow white and the several zeds

um, you might want recursion of some type. and either buffs/spells that are not faction - or an attachment to make them faction.

what faction? or are you going to buy an army around her from scratch?

>>49947450
>Solid baseline of heavies
>Sentinel
>Sentry
Senpai just swap them for a Cannoneer and another Gladiator.

(Morghoul 1) Master Tormentor Morghoul [+30]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Cyclops Savage [8]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

Got a game against the local Legion player in an hour, taking this. Should be FUN. I know, Cyclops are shit, but when they have +6 to damage rolls, they can lay it on pretty well.

Okay, so I am seriously considering giving Skorne another chance. I like this Mak3 list in theory, but have yet to play it. So I should probably get on Vassal. What do you guys think? The core concept is that Brutes with Starcrossed should be able to shrug off an alpha reasonably well and can with Makeda's help kill whatever engages them so I can keep my heavies for the late game. And Snapjaw is just a giant middle finger to the current meta, especially with Vortex.

What I am not entirely certain of is Tiberion+Agonizer+MaxHandlers. It should make for one solid late game brick and an excellent HoD target, but is just crazy expensive (~31p).

(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- the Exalted Court
- Tiberion [22]
- Agonizer [7]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Wrong Eye [17]
- Snapjaw
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]

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>>49947350
>I can't think of anything new for it to do beyond giving it an obvious ramming spike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwBc3sLHG_Y

So I just go back to the game and apparently there are no more wreck markers? What the fuck PP, I bought an extra Kraken just to turn it into a wreck marker and now that money is wasted. Fuck this shit, I'm selling my army.

>>49949989
That's some wird shit to get riled up about. Just play a double-Kraken list. Maybe with Lich3 or Skarre2.

>>49950019
The second Kraken is in pieces, it can't be used as it is.

>>49949989
>giant wreck marker covered in colossal parts
That must have been horrific to deal with in a game.

>>49950072
Well have you tried assembling it?

>>49950503
I don't even have all the remaining parts anymore, and I cut off pieces from the parts I used in the wreck marker to make it look more wrecked.

>>49950525
Then just use it as rubble.

>>49950525
Sounds like you fucked up then.

>>49948904
I can only assume that the best factions for her are cryx or khador.
And currently i am thinking if i should or should not pick one of those.

Just letting anon know. A heap of the NQ issues have had their upload link expire.

What kind of a list would be a noobie friendly for menoth?

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>>49949989
Anon, why would you buy a whole other Kraken just to cut it into pieces? They give you a 2d wreck marker for Colossals.

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>>49952030
Because some people like their terrain and markers in three dimensions rather than on a piece of paper.

On the one hand, it's still fine as a beautiful piece of terrain. But if you were looking to use it exclusively as an actual wreck marker, yeah, you're fucked.

>>49951389
I don't think she can be taken in Cryx. She's pretty much trash tho, spell ward was the dumbest thing they could have given that unit.

>>49952634
Cygnar, Khador, and Mercs.
Cygnar and Khador have the RO to jank upkeeps onto the unit, at least. Because of that, Alexia1's probably better in those two factions.

It's not like the upkeeps are that important, anyways. The risen have such crap stats that +3 to whatever (fury for damage, AS for arm, Blur for def, etc.) Only brings them up to slightly below average.

The risen are used to fill space on the board, gum up movement lanes, jam lines, and empower Alexia herself.

Alexia, though, is a magic immune small base model with decent to high damage output, high survivability, and can crap out weaponmaster solos. She's probably worth 5 or 6 points on her own. That puts the risen at a half a point a piece. They're probably worth a half a point a piece just for making your opponent waste activations to kill them.

>>49949263
Tiberion really doesn't do enough for the points. For 22 points you could bring a unit of Nihilators, an Extoller, and a Void Spirit. Nihilators are amazing with Mak3 on the sly. She can only give Overtake to one model, but if that model is a Nihilator, it can clear out a lot of infantry on its own. I also just plain don't like not running Karn with Makeda. Karn with Overtake is pretty good too for those 3" sidesteps and the still-weaker-than-Mk2 Fate Walker.

From personal experience I also recommend swapping a Brute for a Savage. Having another animus is great, and he's more accurate and harder hitting. It doesn't seem like much, but it's like +7 damage on a Brute instead of +6.

>>49950525
just convert it to be one of those "this jack is half submerged!" gimmicks. Hell I could make an all-new crabjack by just using the spare frontplate, head and arms I have left over from putting my Harrower together.

If you really wrecked it good you might need to do some small creative conversionwork though.

http://privateerpress.tumblr.com/post/151991381063/come-harvest-time-it-shall-emerge-the-wicked

I just realized that the new faction is just going to be Soles forcing us to watch him jack it to his skull fetish

Why is the Wurm chaotic neutral and not chaotic evil?

>>49953849
For the same reason Menoth is Lawful neutral. He embodies the chaotic aspect of nature, with no distinctions between good and evil.

If I ever take Damiano out of theme I use alexia. I'm usually taking him with a bunch of forge guard and steelheads which gives her.bodies, and the feat really cranks up their damage output.

Soles just called me, he wants some rules to staple onto some of the worse Skorne models and units to make them better but not broken, so I need you, /tg/, to help.

>Praetorian Swordsmen
Sword - Combo Weaponmaster [Attack]
>Nihilators
Writhe (This model can make free strikes while knocked down. While knocked down it does not get free strike bonuses, suffers -1MAT, and rolls one less dice on damage)
>Molik Karn
Falchion - Critical Decapitation
Revert animus
>Aptimus Marketh
Black Arts (One free upkeep)
>Morghoul2
Mercy - Critical Decapitation
>Rhinodon
Carapace
New animus - Locker
+3ARM
>Archidon
Lightning Strike no longer self cast
>Cataphract Arcuarii
Harpoon - Set Up [Action] (This model gains +6"RNG on this weapon and can drag large base models)
>Cataphract Incindiarii
Incindus - Combined attacks with this weapon are AOE 4
>Titan Chassis
+1DEF
>Cyclops Chassis
+1DEF
+1MAT/RAT

Do you think Soles will like them?

>>49954735
They're mostly pretty bad.

>Praetorian Swordsmen
>Sword - Combo Weaponmaster [Attack]
That might be good. I prefer the Battle Driven sugestion though.
>Nihilators
>Writhe (This model can make free strikes while knocked down. While knocked down it does not get free strike bonuses, suffers -1MAT, and rolls one less dice on damage)
That's pretty clunky and doesn't actually do much.
>Molik Karn
>Falchion - Critical Decapitation
>Revert animus
Yes, the Animus would be great to have back. Crit Decaf is beyond meh. Molik needs more help than that.
>Aptimus Marketh
>Black Arts (One free upkeep)
A start, but still not worth 6p.
>Morghoul2
>Mercy - Critical Decapitation
Again, Crit Decals is not the miracle Morghoul2 needs.
>Rhinodon
>Carapace
>New animus - Locker
>+3ARM
Now give it some sort of offensive capability. Preferably without making it the Aradus Soldier.
>Archidon
>Lightning Strike no longer self cast
And again, a start, but not enough. It'll just make it into an Animus bot.
>Cataphract Arcuarii
>Harpoon - Set Up [Action] (This model gains +6"RNG on this weapon and can drag large base models)
You do realize that rule does absolutely nothing, right?
>Cataphract Incindiarii
>Incindus - Combined attacks with this weapon are AOE 4
Does not solve their problems at all.
>Titan Chassis
>+1DEF
Wow, DEF11? Just give them ARM20.
>Cyclops Chassis
>+1DEF
>+1MAT/RAT
Yup. That's good.

>>49954735
>>49955025
Oh, so yes, Soles will like them.

>>49955025
>Nihilators
They don't need much in the first place. This would just make them amazing as tarpits because you can't ignore them until they're dead.
>Molik
Fine increase his base STR to 11, he IS a heavy after all. Did you know that Karn is only STR8? That's the same as Xerxis1, an ordinary if incredibly well trained man. Hell, a Nihilator is 7.
>Marketh
Let him craft talismans too then. Or just reduce him to 3 points.
>Morghoul2
Honestly Morghoul2 CAN reach his target with Ghostly from Marketh and throws. The problem is he can only kill low ARM targets. This addresses the problem.
>Rhinodon
It doesn't need offense faggot. If you want that, just bring a Gladiator. A cheap 20ARM Locker source? That's pretty sweet as a heavy tarpit.
>Archidon
No one complained about the Mk2 Raider being an animus bot, it was just a support piece you brought.
>Arcuarii
I didn't say it lasted until end of turn.
>Incindiarii
It doesn't, but what would? The problem is a lack of infantry on the table, and that's not going to change. You might as well make it easier for them to kill infantry.
>Titans
I feel that with the point cost changes, any more than that might be a bit much.

>>49946925
Still one of my favorite bits of fluff in the entire Warmahordes universe.

>dat Protectorate justice system
>Death by burning
>Death by burning
>Death by burning

>>49955220
Okay, so here's the broad strokes on how to fix Skorne.

1) Enrage ONLY grants free charges.
2) All beasts get +2 STR.
3) Titans go up 1 ARM.
4) Cyclopses get +1 MAT/RAT
5) Agonizer gets reworked again. -2STR aura is removed. Cost is reduced.
6) Give the Gargantuans strong animi.
7) Add one spell to almost every caster. Remove stupid shit like Flesh Hooks (and shove them up Soles' ass).

That's of course not all of it, but just the fixes for the fundamental design flaws.

File: IMG_20161025_220827121.jpg (2MB, 2592x1456px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49955573
8) Revert Krea

Also I based Karn and Despoiler today. Have I done you proud, Anon-kun?

>>49955573
>>49955220
What the fuck is with you guys and insisting on a 10/20 statline?

10/19 is a fine heavy statline, and Khador's thing is a 10/20 line.

>>49955926
Nice models and the bases look servicable.

I'd like Skorne not to have to crutch on the Krea so hard.

>>49955986
We kinda want nice things too.

>>49956007
And I'm not saying Skorne shouldn't have them, but just trying to ape shit from other factions isn't going to make Skorne interesting.

>>49955986
>10/19 is a fine heavy statline, and Khador's thing is a 10/20 line.
Yeah, only Khador is allowed MAT7, PS19 + crit freeze, and 10/20 on a 12 point model. It's fine that Skorne has to pay 14 points for MAT6, PS16, and 10/19.
>B-B-BUT YOU CAN BRING H-HANDLERS
Great I have to spend even more points trying to bring my beasts up to the level of your jacks.
>B-B-BUT YOU G-GET ANIMI
Most of which are completely useless. I'd meme arrow all of the Skorne beasts with useless animi but it's much quicker and easier to list the ones with good animi that aren't in some crazy niche like the Agonizer.
>Gladiator (Rush)
>Cannoneer (Snipe, still self only though)
There. That's it. Every good animus in Skorne.

>>49956059
Okay, what would you propose?

Here's an example for Bronzeback changes:

1) 40 boxes, Agressive

2) Animus: Target friendly Titan warbeast immeadiately frenzies. It can still activate like normal blah blah (like Arkadius' feat).

3) Replace Hyper-Agressive with Mega-Agressive (name pending): Once per round, when this model is damaged by an enemy attack, it can immediately cast its animus for free.

4) Cost: 20p

>>49956266
>40 boxes
Like, actually just no. I'm the guy above your post and this is just retarded. Maybe a couple more onto the body or something, but 40 is way too many. Even Tiberion only has like 32 and he's a fat fuck who's been fighting for decades.

>>49956312
And why exactly not? If a 12p heavy with ARM20 can have 34 boxes, a 20p ARM19 heavy can have 40. Fuck it. Give Skorne something nice for fucking once Jason.

>>49956389
I can't, I'm too busy DESIGNING HEXERIS.

>>49956389
Like, just randomly throwing bullshit numbers at the faction isn't going to fix them, man.

>>49956410
How is that random? PP want Skorne to survive until they can fight back. Fucking give them something to do it with.

>>49956438
They don't want them to survive, they want them to benefit from losing their army.

>>49956590
That's why I proposed a rule that would trigger on being hurt.

And you do know that in order to win WMH you need to have models left by the end, right?

>>49956652
They want Skorne to work like pZaal man.

Lose 2/3s of your army, win with what's left.

>>49956694
>They want Skorne to work like pZaal man.
Pics or didn't happen.

>>49956694
And pzaal was nerfed so that he can't transfer to AGs and his one defensive spell denies his soul mechanic. Sounds like skorne, yeah.

>>49956694
Zaal is just about the only model in Skorne that appreciates that aspect of Skorne though. Maybe the other soul collectors, but they're only really minor pieces in the grand scale of things. Everyone else is just generic "buff my dudes, now I'll use my feat that buffs my dudes". Your dudes are dead? Your spells are flat out weaker.

>>49956590

>they want them to benefit from losing their army

That isn't really viable.

That being said, they could always have a unit gain a point of SPD, STR or ARM (capping it somewhere) for each model in their command radius that is killed, or a spell that works for such.

Give all AGs righteous vengeance instead of just Hakaar. Skorne needs more Vengeance, Righteous Vengeance, Battle Driven, shit like that.

>>49957112

And modify it based on what the unit is.

Like Infantry and Solos get 1+ or Beasts get 2+ or the like.

>>49957149
The problem thematically with Vengeance in Skorne is that they don't really care if their comrades die. It's all about being a badass and getting exalted.

>>49957341
Then why do immortals, hakaar, and Makeda's swordsmen already have vengeance or righteous vengeance?

>>49952901
My favorite thing to do used to be running them behind a bunch of Steelheads and then Prime the resulting skeleton horde. It was so much fun it had to be nerfed into the ground.

>>49957149
I'm a really casual player and still really new and yet this seems so obvious to me.

>>49957379
>Immortals and Hakaar
Skorne revere their exalted ancestors, so it's only fitting that the ancestors themselves would get angry at guys falling.
>Swordsmen
No idea desu senpai. It doesn't feel like it fits considering the final stage of their training involves killing each other. Unless they form some kind of comradery from that act.

New to Warmachine, can anyone give me a brief summary of each faction. They all just look like giant robots to me.

>>49958138
Cyngar - We're going to kill you from over here, and there's not a god damn thing you can do about it.

Khador - I heard you liked the most point efficient warjack in the game, so I put a million of them in my list

Menoth - Nope. No. Can't do that either. No, you don't actually kill that guy. Nope. Man, do you not even know my rules?

Cryx - We could kill everything on the table if our opponent would just not shoot us to death from way over there

Mercs - Hey look, Dwarves! Aren't those low tie-JESUS CHRIST

Convergence - Beep Boop No one knows any of our rules. Beep Everyone calls bullshit on what we do Boop. Beep Hope you like getting clocked out, because it's happening Boop.

Ret - We're going to shoot you from way over here, and there's plenty you can do about it. Oh look, Sentinels! I guess there's nothing you can do about it.

Trolls - One man. One Axe. Bet you've never seen a FURY5 caster assassinate someone with spells before.

Circle - FUCKING TREES LET ME SEE YOUR SHIT

Legion - Hey, we're the glass cannon faction. That's why our new model is fucking impossible to kill!

Skorne - We're going to march across this table slowly, and there's a fucking shitload of things you can do about it.

Minions - Rask: OOGA BOOGA I'M THE ONLY COMPETITIVE WARLOCK IN THIS FACTION

>>49958298
Skorne aren't slow though. They march at an average speed, but there's still plenty you can do about it.

>>49958298
>Not referring to Minions as "Snake tossers"

>>49958453
Shit, that was a much better choice. I totally forget about the flying snake.

>>49958138
Since the other guy mentioned them in the tabletop, here's a rundown of the factions in the fluff as I know it.

Cygnar - They hate Khador

Khador - They hate Cygnar

Menoth - Religious fanatics who burned a town down because they couldn't afford to build a church to worship Menoth

Cryx - Necromantic pirates

Mercs - Literally a bunch of mercenaries

Convergence - Who?

Ret - A faction of Hitlers who repelled the Skorne invasion through the power of montage

Trolls - Madrak is basically Arthas Menethil, pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme though

Circle - They make druidic chaos so a god doesn't see a lack of chaos happening and come fuck shit up even harder

Legion - Dragonspawn who want to conquer the world

Skorne - Martial monsters whose leaders are complete gods on the battlefield. As punishment, they suck dick in the wargame

>>49958605

>repelled the Skorne invasion through the power of montage

I thought the Skorne were still rampaging about Ios in the lore?

>>49958736
Timeskip happened. Not-so-natural disasters fucked the Skorne supply lines.

>>49958736

They're back in "holding onto enclaves by their finder-talons" mode, I think.

>>49958782

Did it say specifically that they've been repulsed from Ios or is it just assumed?

>>49958816
From Xerxis "Though our conquest was cut short, our gains from this battle were great, and the people of Ios will not soon forget the lessons in blood we tought them."

>>49959496

So they're keeping what they have?

Also, has anyone tried to push them out of any of the other territory they've gained in Western Immoren? I imagine their conquests there are pretty sizable.

>>49959552
Most of their gains outside Ios are on the fringiest of fringes of the Iron Kingdoms, out in the shit wastes that nobody really gives a fuck about. The human nations don't really give the Skorne much thought.

>>49959552
As far as slaves and materials, yes. Their western holdings got wrecked so they retreated and need to rebuild.

>>49958736
Goreshade happened.

>>49960298

How so?

>>49960309
We don't know.

But a mysterious figure emerged from the Fane of Scyrah and repulsed the Skorne army.

>>49959552
Their conquests outside of Ios are pretty sizable, true, if you remember that no other race or nation gives a damn about the Bloodstone Marches. The Skorne are literally the only ones that consider it anything other than a barren wasteland full of incredibly dangerous creatures.

>>49956652
Only one model.
And you only have to kill one model.

You could legit lose your entire force save caster/lock, and kill only their caster/lock. FTW

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Are there any good Mercenary 'Jack Marshals who can work for Khador?

>>49961768
Rutger Shaw and Dirty Meg are both solid. I like giving Dirty Meg a talon in my Sorscha lists, giving me two models that can stationary warjacks and turn Shatter on. Rutger is a great combat solo who is 16/16 when B2B with his warjack, and gives whatever jack he chooses shield guard. Rutger with a Mangler seems like it could be legit. 1 less arm but 1 more speed than khador jacks, can do a pow 18 thresher charge at mat 8 or can have crush used to make it a pow 20 with a pow 20 followup. They're chain weapon swings, too.

>>49961768
Colbie Sterling,Dirty Meg,Raluk Moorclaw,Rutger Shaw and Thor Steinhammer can all jack marshal for Khador I cant vouch for how good they are though.

except for Thor he's probably the best jack marshal n the game right now.unfortunately his tune up ability only works on Rhulic jacks

Colbie isn't for sale yet iirc. She's pretty solid though since she can repair khador jacks.

>>49962028
But so can mechanics? Why is everyone so obsessed with her? I've got one from L+L and honestly don't know what to do with her.

>>49962178
Mechanics can't bring mercenary warjacks onto the field either. She's also 3 points when the other ones, except Meg, are 4.

If Skorne ever gets paralytic aura back I think I'll get Despoiler. Despoiler looks like a fantastic choice for 18 points, dark shroud and a free upkeep. Dark Shroud gives it damage output comparable to a bronzeback (17/17/19 instead of 18/19/19, only a bit less and it has crit brutal) and he's faster than a titan. Plus, Arcane Suppression. But 11/18 with 28 boxes is real easy to shoot off the table. That's unbuffed legion heavy stats with fewer boxes and I've wrecked plenty of those before.

>>49962840
I sincerely hope we don't get the Krea back. I want our models to get decent stats out of the box instead. I don't want to get a Krea so I can survive getting up the field, then get an Agonizer so I can survive the alpha, then get a Willbreaker to be able to hit anything and then get Beast Handlers to get soem semblance of damage. That support bloat needs to go.

>>49957555
>YOU BASTARD -I- WAS GOING TO KILL HIM. I'LL KILL YOU FOR THAT

So i still like my skorne army so fuck, im gonna expand.

Whats more worth while for my next purchase?

Xerxis + ceratii and ua
OR
Makeda 3, Zaal 1, Mordikaar, Zaadesh, Hakaar and a void spirit?

I am debating whether or not the ceratii brick will see more play than the utility pieces amd extra casters.
Thoughts?

>>49928928
>>49942913
Actually, this isn't the right one as it doesn't include NQ 68.

This is the proper new pastie:
http://textuploader <dot> com / da46m

>>49962241
Man, Meg is just straight up better than Colbie. That's disappointing.

>>49960406
>a mysterious figure
REBORN MORDIKAAR WHEN?

>>49963386
At the moment the Cetrati brick is much stronger on the table than anything the other casters do. Get a Void Spirit with Xerxis1 + Cetrati + Vorkesh. Void Spirits are incredible solo hunters and flag holders.

>>49964047
>Cetrati brick
Is not nearly as good as the Ferox brick. They can even make Wormwood sweat.

>>49964055
>Ferox brick
LOL

Haha really got me going there.

>>49964060
Yeah, Mak2 + 2xFerox is one of the strongest builds Skorne has. Of course you wouldn't know about that.

>>49964071
like im gonna spend THAT much cash on 2 units of shit i never wanted any way

>>49964083
I'm not telling you to. I'm telling you it's good.

>>49964071
I'm yet to see Mak2 or Ferox do even reasonably well at a tournament so it's a moot point.

>>49964123
That's not the problem of the list though. That's just Skorne being crap.

>>49964140
>The Mak2 + Ferox list is good
>Actually wait no it's crap because Skorne is crap
Make your mind up.

>>49964153
It's excellent by Skorne standards. It's okay by WMH standards.

>>49964163
Then you read just about any other cavalry in the game and break down.

>>49964209
Oh Ferox are not bad. They're just in Skorne.

>>49964219
There's nothing about them that makes them good though. 13/17 with boxes is pretty good if you can buff it just a little bit higher, which is why Xerxis1 would be my choice of warlock for them. It's why Xerxis1 is my choice of warlock for most situations to be honest. But what does Mak2 even give them? She compensates for their pathetic MAT6 on feat turn? Stay Death compensates for her lack of defensive stat buffs? Jump is a placement so you don't need the parry from Dash, and you're likely leaving her control range so Deflection doesn't do much (not that it does much anyway).

Just make them into 15/19s senpai.

>>49964279
It's really just Stay Death.

>>49964289
Then I fail to see the strength of it when Defender's Ward makes it a lot harder to kill them in the first place. Hell Xerxis can even throw his battle plans on them for increased threat range or damage.

>>49964314
Yes. I think waht makes people prefer Mak2 over him in that build is that he can only support 1 unit at a time, while Stay Death is universal.

>>49964406
But with his feat Xerxis supports his unit of titans better.

>>49964461
And Titans don't threaten Wormwood. Or anything really.

>>49964479
>Rush
>Trample through trees
>Do your best Minecraft impression and punch a tree

>>49964494
And then he figures out to stay outside of 10". Or doesn't care because even on 0 camp a trampling Titan (I assume a Gladiator) won't kill him, assuming he's on full souls. And he should always be on full souls.

>>49964505
Warmwood is getting the nerf bat soon anyway.

>>49964524
Hopefully not just him. There's just so much broken stuff right now.

But you're right. Teching against Wormwood is a necessity right now, but hopefully will be less so next year.

When people talk about abilities 'proccing' on podcasts, are they meaning 'processing'?

I am having a bit of trouble understanding the context.

I didnt see anything on the wiki, is there any fluff on Vlad, Markov, or Fenris? Im getting started with a vlad3 list but there doesn't seem to be any real fluff on the characters in my army.

>>49964995
You want fluff? READ A BOOK NIGGUH

>>49964896
That may be where the word comes from. It means that the ability activates when that condition is met. For example Vengeance "procs" when a model in the unit is damaged.

So, skorne solos:
Void Spirit VS Orin Midwinter VS Master Tormentor

Who's best and why is it the Void Spirit?

>>49965150
Void Spirit is best solo hunter, Orin is best (and only) anti-magic, Master Tormentor is best Arc Node.

>>49965191
PGMT is also best bang-for-your-buck single box infantry killer.
Though orin can zap them too...

>>49964896
It's a video game term. (P)rogrammed (r)andom (oc)currence. A sword could have a 10% chance when hitting an enemy to deal double damage. When that event happens, it is referred to as the weapon "proccing".

People use it when talking about an ability in which you, as the player, have no direct control over activating. Certain units have the Vengeance ability. Vengeance gives the unit a 3" advance and a melee attack at the beginning of your next turn if the opposing player damages a model in the unit. The player owning the unit cannot activate that ability in any direct way. So, when Vengeance activates, people will instead say that Vengeance has "procced".

>>49965191
Void Spirit to hunt solos better than the Raider can dream of doing.

Orin as a counter to magic. Oh and by the way he MELTS infantry.

PGMT is still underwhelming when put aside other faction solos.

I just noticed something in the rules digest. In the rules for warcasters and warjacks, under "Focus: Additional Attack" it says they can spend focus to gain additional *melee* attacks, and that they can maybe spend focus to make additional ranged attacks if they have a special rule. However, under the explanations of weapon rules, it doesn't say anything about having to spend focus to take extra attacks if your ROF is more than 1.

So do I have to spend focus to make extra attacks with high ROF ranged weapons? If not, where does the "focus for extra ranged attacks with a special rule" part come in?

>>49966572
You get ranged attacks up to your ROF for free. Some models have a special ability called "Reload[x]" which allows the model to buy up x additional attacks with focus/fury.

>>49958605
>Mercs - Literally a bunch of mercenaries
Also dwarves

>Convergence
A secret club of math nerds

>>49964279
Mat 6 doesn't need compensating for. Either they're jumping into back arcs and are mat 8, or they're making a cavalry charge which is a boosted attack roll.

>>49966603
>You get ranged attacks up to your ROF for free.
Oh boy my Skorne models all have ROF1.

>>49966758
That gives me an idea for a new warbeast
>Dire Gorax something something
>Circle Heavy Warbeast
>Has a thrown ranged attack: Rng 8, AOE 3, ROF 0, Reload 1, P+S 14
>It's a thrown barrel

>>49961957
I dunno, Iron Lich Overseer is a pretty good jack marshal and has a jack (Seether) that synergizes with it really well.

>>49960869
To be fair, that's what the Skorne consider it to be as well, they just don't give a fuck.

>>49967092
Nah, just give him an option to perform a two-handed throw when he hits with a melee attack.

>>49967828
Does Donkey Kong throw his enemies, though?

>>49964209
Aren't Ferox like the second best Cav in the game right now? Most cav don't see any play atm, except for Stormlances.

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>>49968000
Been there, done that, the pyg already has Mario-style overalls and hat.

>>49968045
Aw, damn. I'd never caught that the pyg was Mario.

So, Una 2 gives Griffons in her battlegroup Flank: Griffon.

Discuss.

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>>49968520
So this appears to be legit.

Can't say much without her spell list and feat, though.

File: Razorwing Griffon.jpg (245KB, 651x1034px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49968520
We do need to see the spell list and feat before we can make a good judgement, but Flank: Griffon looks like it'd be useful. She already likes taking Griffons, and it'd allow them to punch above their weight when double-teaming enemy pieces

>>49968520
RIP.

And tear.

>>49954735
>Praetorian Swordsmen
Battle Driven +1 mat +2 points
>Nihilators
Writhe is weird and clunky. Make them immune to blast damage.
>Molik Karn
Molik needs way more help than crit decap. Chain attack blood bath, Just plain Side Step, +1 Str. Give him a new bond with Makeda.
Revert animus
>Aptimus Marketh
Black Arts (One free upkeep)
>Morghoul2
He needs more reliable damage. Crit: Decap is not that.
>Rhinodon
>Carapace
>New animus - Locker
>+3ARM
Good changes. Make the tail pow 16 and we're talking.

>Archidon
Lightning Strike no longer self cast
Just give it Prey. Let it be our cheap missile beast
>Cataphract Arcuarii
Harpoon is terrible. All cataphracts need base arm 16. Let Incindiarii and Arcuarii have wall of steel.
Give Acuarii the ability to drag on a CRA
>Cataphract Incindiarii
Give them a choice between flare and continuous effect fire.
>Titan Chassis
+2 DEF. Pain Response
>Cyclops Chassis
ROF d3 for Raider
+1 Mat for Brute
+1 PS Savage
Shaman is fine as is.

I look forward to a potential future where Skorne is (more) viable and 80% of posts aren't lol Skorne memes, Skorne defense, or Skorne talk.

>>49969347
>I look forward to dead threads.

Ok man.

>>49969396
>muh hoksune
dead thread > every fucking post about skorne

So is there ever an explanation given for why Hakaar could see into the future?

>>49968756
Might make Griffons worth a damn. They seem pretty pants to me as is.

>>49968756

My local meta is collectively shitting their pants and screaming about circle now being better at spamming gryphons than ret.

Some days I wonder why I even associate with these people.

>>49968031
The only heavy cav they're better than are steelheads. Uhlans and vengers blow ferox away.

>>49969656
>>49969906

I'm not sold yet.

The first griffon that gets somewhere is still ass.

Assuming Scarsfell (as these are the ones you'd use to kill difficult to kill stuff) maxing Fury into an ARM 19 chassis, any that get there after the first average about 19 damage, which is not bad for an 8 point flying stealth def 15 model. The problem is you have to get the first one there too, and it averages about 9, so you'd need 24 points of them to reliably kill a generic heavy.

Problem is they flatten out against higher armor, *and* this is assuming maxing Fury each time, on something that wants to be pretty far away (Long Leash) so your Fury management is going to be limited.

And then with 0.5" range melee, you have to get all of them in melee with the target, which is easier said than done.

Now, this said, this is already an interesting assassination vector by virtue of long leash + stealth on stuff that is now *seriously* threatening to casters; add a feat that gives Parry to her battlegroup and she's going to be a tournament caster.

But without the spell list/feat, I'm not sold.

>>49970273
With access to Primal that flanking Griffon could be pretty damned scary to casters.

>>49970320
With a Parry feat, Primal on them becomes really scary. Without it, you're only going to get Primal on one with its 6" range if your opponent really screwed up.

That said, if you Primal the second griffon in it goes from 19 to 31 damage on an ARM 19 target, which is pretty nice.

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>>49967424
the problem with an ILO is that its marshaled to cryx jacks and a few other things, aside from the fact a good bit of units can ignore stealth (if they cant then that's great and he pays for himself). on ranged jacks cloak of darkness would be tits but all the good shooting jacks are expensive, and focus-hungry meaning they would probably be better on a BG, and the problem with marshaling him to a Seether is Cloak of Darkness is an Action, which means you can't use it after running or charging and due to uncontrollable rage the Seether must run or charge when it can meaning most of the time the ILO will be lagging behind and really unable to put Cloak of Darkness on him.

That said the ILO isn't bad really but he's situational a lot of times. If he and his Seether charge manage to get to the front lines without getting shoot to shit they can do some work with Dark Shroud and soul collecting that will inevitably come when the seether hits infantry.

>>49970676
You can run 0 inches.

>>49970676
Uncontrollable Rage is *really* not that big of a deal, since you have full control over the run, and you don't have to charge if you're already engaged, and have control over your charges. It basically stops you from walking *around* something to get to your primary target.

And with an ILO you get 4 Berzerk attacks at 18/21/21/21 at MAT 8 after charging for free.

If you can pop the ILO through stealth at range, you can probably deal with the other marshals just as effectively.

It's definitely not a must-have, but I don't think there's a marshal that's clearly better.

>>49970725
>>49970950
yeah I forgot about the "run 0 inch's rule". looking back at it now an ILO would be pretty decent on a Seether because he's so focus efficient, but I still maintain that he's hampered when it comes to our gunjacks just because they need that focus to really shine.

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>>49969628

>>49971159
>MAKEDA IS THE STRONGEST IN THE IRON KINGDOMS BUT STILL DOSENT DO CRAP.

>>49971253
I too enjoy TeamFourStar brave anon, top reference

>>49971253
Reminder that Vinter considered Makeda his equal in combat, Makeda is terrified of Morghoul, and Xerxis is easily the greatest general in the Iron Kingdoms.

>>49972220
>Makeda is terrified of Morghoul

Not because he's a better fighter.

>>49972387
I'm pretty sure Morghoul would have no second thoughts in trying to assassinate her if she was guilty of some anti-Skorne crime.

>>49972220
Where was it said she was terrified of Morghoul? I didn't even think she knew he'd back stab her if she ever stepped out of line, so to speak.

>>49960869

>a barren wasteland full of incredibly dangerous creatures

That they bend to their will towards making war on Western Immoren?

>>49972667
Everyone is terrified of Morghoul. That's sort of his job.

>>49973594
Zaal2 and Naaresh are both unafraid of death or pain, and are not enemies of the empire.

>>49972220
Vinter didn't consider Makeda his equal - he basically said if she was capable of fighting longer she could have won - but keep in mind this is after he's killed the shit out of her several times exhausting her titan reserves etc.

There are very few people who have been close to Vinter's level of martial capability.

>>49973934
He also had the berserker armor.

>>49973934
>There are very few people who have been close to Vinter's level of martial capability.

Or have magic armor...

>>49965320
>>49965099
Thank you!

>>49974034
>>49974100

What berserker armor?

And where is it now?

>>49964995
Read the Mk2 Khador forces book.

>>49974275
The Ancient Mail of the Grim King. It gave him infinite stamina and made him heal super fast. It was destroyed by Magnus with some alchemical mixture right before Magnus stabbed Vinter.

>>49972220

To be far, who doesn't fear the Blood Runners or those who they would call master to some degree?

Aren't they an institution that known for inflicting pain on those who cross them and, in the current age, anyone threatening the new Empire?

>>49975227
They're basically The League of Shadows upped to 11

>>49975375
moviefag please

>>49973640
Naaresh might be the single greatest warrior among the Skorne, to be honest.

Like, he considers the martial traditions that most Skorne aspire to master small time, and he's older than any Skorne has ever lived.

>>49976372
Yeah, and then he jobs hard to Absylonia. Multiple titans and rhinodons die so that he can survive the beating she gives him.

>>49976372
Naaresh isn't necessarily a great fighter so much as he is Skorne buddha.

Whats the best support for a Siege Animantarax?

So next gen colossals and man'o'war theme force and mini release fucking when?

>>49976547
Manowar theme will probably be in a year or two. They're going to release all of the command books first, and then start releasing theme force books.

>>49976547
>Next Gen Colossals
For Trolls, Decemeber

>man-o-war theme force
After January

>mini release
Depends on mini

>>49976574

>For Trolls, Decemeber
But... I want a victor.
>After January
Fuck me
>Depends on mini
Man'o'war battle engine.

>>49976485
Naaresh spent most of that fight more interested in setting shit up so he could see how she fought then he did straight up attempting to kill her.

Like, the first thing he does is use all his warbeasts to isolate her so he can fight one on one, explicitly because he wants to be surprised by her abilities in combat.

He's basically so bored he gave himself a handicap, and even then, in terms of straight combat he was trouncing her.

Hell, he explicitly avoided sending wounds to his warbeasts because he'd rather feel the pain and injury himself.

>>49976911
And then he explicitly started sending wounds to his warbeasts, because she was about to kill him. He was never "trouncing" her, they traded blows back and forth leaving them both badly wounded, and then she feated and healed to full. She disarmed him and left him bleeding to death on the ground, having to kill his warbeasts one by one to stop himself from dying. Right as she was going to finish him she was driven off by reinforcements.

>>49977144
No.

As they traded blows, Abby had to transfer several times, where Naaresh never had to do so. And even then, Abby ended up inches from death, while Naaresh was injured but ultimately still fine.

It was only when she feated that the fight turned against him, and even then, only because he'd taken so many wounds he'd refused to transfer.

>>49977201
Considering Naaresh was on the ground dying after one more hit from Abby, I don't think he was "injured but ultimately still fine".

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>>49977201
And that's what Abby does with everyone. Since no one really knows who she is (or for that matter, what most of the Legion is capable of), when they fight her they inevitably think they have the upper hand. Then she pops her ult and suddenly they're fighting for their life because she's at 100% again.

Also, Legion casters are inches from death all the time. Enhanced regeneration is a nice perk. In Kallus' case, as long as his athanc doesn't get eaten Everblight will just remake him again when he dies.

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late night bump

>>49979611
Skorne rulez.

>>49932019
/tg/ can give the illusion of life to any game

>>49979611
I hope we get more spoilers soon.

>>49977311

The epilogue of the battle has Naaresh speaking with Hexeris, at that point pretty much fine, thanks Hexxy for the opportunity, and then tells him to fuck off and not bother him while he meditates on the battle.

>>49979966
Well Naaresh is pretty good at regenerating himself. Man there's just so many epic casters that COULD exist in Skorne in the story. Naaresh2 post-Abby meditation, Mordikaar2 post-Wurm stomach death after becoming the Reborn. Or just give us fucking Xerxis3 already you shitfucks.

>>49979966
It also has Hexxy wonder why Naaresh used such an insane plan to fight instead of just winning the battle straight up.

>>49980180
Hexxy more than anyone should understand the value of experimentation and study though. Naaresh just has the balls to do it on the front lines.

Looking to get in to Warmachine, had an interest in it for years but never the funds/people to play it with. Some buddies got the Cryx/Cygnar box, so I'm thinking of putting some money into it now. I was interested in Protectorate, and maybe getting a fourth in this, so is the older Prot/Khador box a good choice, or should I just go with the starter box and buy the point difference?

Alternatively, should I just buy an entire army piece by piece until I meet their pointage?

>>49981414
No Hordes interest?

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>>49942493
Why?

>>49942693
If the meta was still infantry, Skorne would be legitimately high tier because monsters like Mord Void Spirits could kill the entire enemy army in love activation. And Incindiarii would be playable.

>>49982422
No it wouldn't. One of their best infantry tools was BB with beat back.

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im going to be going to a 35 point 2v2 this Sat this is the list im thinking of using

"yeah, yeah why am I using denny2?" im just more comfortable with her and I like the utility she brings.I may switch to denny one for the cheese factor aside from changing my caster how does it look? id like to have a solid base to stand on my own while supporting my partner who will be playing circle. I think It may be to watered down on troop choices.

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Excuse me, Kovnik, but I made something for you. I may refine it later, but it isn't meant to be "good."

>>49982629
Because Void Spirits weren't as good as they are now. Or the Cannoneer for that matter.

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>>49983849
OK, I think this is a little better with the hat rotated

>>49982148
Unfortunately no, I've always been more into the jacks and the other guy is new to the setting entirely.

>>49981414
Unless you know a friend will split the box and the cost with you, or you know you will want to play the Exemplar Cinerators from the two-player box, I'd recommend getting the current faction battlegroup box. For Protectorate, you're getting warjacks with a combined MSRP of about $78, plus a warcaster that only comes in the box (and warcasters run $10-12 at the low end), plus a hardcopy of the basic rulebook (available for free online, but I like having a hardcopy at the table), as well as some convenient dice and tokens. You also get the current stat cards in it, rather than the Mk. II stat cards, saving you $20 until you're ready to expand your army.

I definitely wouldn't buy an entire army piece by piece unless you know exactly what you want to play and none of it is in a boxed set.

>>49981414
>Buy a cheap Skorne army from a salty player
>Errata in January hits
>Skorne become stratosphere tier

>>49946925
Wait wait...So the Protectorates punishment for arson was death by burning.Do they place the prisoner inside the burning building they just set the fire to?

>>49981414
>>49985992

WARNING: Skorne was comfortably mediocre in mk2, and people went into mk3 confident that everything was going to get slightly better. Everything got slightly worse. Even some of the things that got buffed got worse (try to wrap your head around that one, but it's a hella important point). The next time they can bring themselves to buff Skorne in a way with no strings attached, it will be the first time in years- and they've been consistently sucking at assessing the value of the buff to the cost of the strings attached.

They don't have the balls to take the leap and actually improve Skorne. But it's your money.

>>49942735
It's still bad

>>49940814
>just a NW thing?

No. But there is regional variation of course.

>>49976680
>But... I want a victor.
It's out in November

http://www.thewarstore.com/product109989.html

>>49986264
The thing with Skorne is there's some downright stupid shit in the faction that just happens to coincidentally get covered up by something else (Mk2 Krea). Then PP comes along and changes things without understanding how a faction works (Mk3 Krea), and everything falls apart. >>49955573 basically nails it. Every single Skorne list runs Handlers. Every single fucking one. If you want a melee beast, or any number of beasts, you NEED the fuckers. And all they do is bring the P+S of your shit up to scratch with the rest of the game. So Skorne has this 5+ point tax on every single list they make.

So I'm looking at Reznik2 and he seems majorly improved. Is he good now? Was thinking of pairing him with the High Reclaimer.

Me and my friends are new to warmachine.
We bought us two armies - Convergence and Legion.
Since i am the owner of Legion part, i probably have more units and stuff, but we are still sort of sharing armies.
I have these:
Wrongeye&Snapjaw
Rorsch&Brine
Saeryn
Rhyas
Lylith1(do not own the Lylith2 but we have decided she is not worth bying because neither of us likes her sculpt so she will be Lylith2 if required)
Striders+UA
2xScytheans
Carnivean
Warspears
Strider Deathstalker
Angelius
Helion
4xshredders
Typhon
Proteus
Shepherd

I do plan to purchase Abby2 and, i dont know, two forsakens or something. Mainly i am planning to play Abby2 and Lylith1-2.
I would like to hear advices on how to build staff and mainly if i should buy Raptors and Anyssa.

He have Mk2 battlebox, multikit for Conservator and Cypher, Lucant, a squad of angels, Reciprocators and optifex directive. What else should he purchase for those two casters - Lucant and Syntherion?

>>49986135
Honestly I'm surprised arson is even a crime in the Protectorate. Doesn't Malekus' backstory involve him burning down a town or something?

>>49969656
>Might make Griffons worth a damn. They seem pretty pants to me as is.
They do? Damn, the griffons kick ass in my lists, especially the Scarsfell. That thing pulls way outside its weight class for me this edition, especially with a damage buff. Must just be a #localmetathing.

If this is all Una2 brings for griffons, it's not very impressive... COS probably does more for them than flank on average. But I kinda doubt this is all she brings for griffons, she's the griffon caster.

>>49987252
Get another Deathstalker. Honestly it's one of the best solos in the whole game and might even get the nerfbat come January, but fuck me I'm sick of playing against those cunts. Every turn I lose Beast Handlers to those cuntflaps I can't do shit about. Well, until I started jamming 2 Void Spirits in every list to counter solos. My local Legion player is also fond of Nyss Swordsmen to threaten heavies, and Hex Hunters to kill everything in one activation.

My discount copy of Skorne Empire from minimarket's sale arrived, now I can read how Skorne was meant to be while masturbating and crying.

>>49987415
Oh look, cataphract armor has only 1 point of extra def penalty compared to praetorian armor.

>>49987415
Oh look, animantaraxes have 17 more boxes than a titan in this book. How interesting. 48 boxes, vs the 54 of a mammoth. I guess the ones skorne use as battle engines are all on the verge of death.

>>49987161
I heard people talking about him with Corbeau being a tough nut to crack. Unfortunately that's all I can offer.

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Circlefags critique this.

Made from the models I have right now. I don't want to buy anything else if I don't have to. Would this list function well?

I'm still used to thinking 75pts is where you run a wall of infantry, a gargantuan, and two battle engines.

Circle Army - 75 / 75 points

(Kaya 2) Kaya the Moonhunter [+24]
- Laris
- Feral Warpwolf [18]
- Pureblood Warpwolf [17]
- Warpwolf Stalker [19]
- Ghetorix [21]
Warpborn Skinwalkers (max) [15]
- Warpborn Skinwalker Alpha [4]
Shifting Stones [3]
- Stone Keeper [2]

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>>49987547

I've always thought Battle Engines should be somewhere between a Warbeast-Warjack or a Gargantuan-Colossal in terms of boxes.

Most of them are larger than the Heavies that have more boxes than they do, like the Throne of Everblight, Battle Carriage and Siege Animantarax.

Final official /tg/ Skorne warlock tier list.

>Top tier
Rasheth
Xerxis1
>High tier
Morghoul1
Xekaar
>Mid tier
Hexeris1
Makeda2
Naaresh
Zaal1
Zaal2
>Low tier
Hexeris2
Makeda1
Makeda3
Mordikaar
Xerxis2
>There is a special place in hell for the person who gave this thing a green light
Morghoul2

>>49987885
imo naaresh is high tier, mak3 and mordikaar are mid tier, hexy1 is low tier. Morg1 might be top tier but high tier works too.

Zaadesh2 has Burning Ash according to shick. That's going to put him at least in mid tier, maybe high.

>>49987885

More like why there can't be an official skorne anything. Mordikaar and Hexeris2 could swap places with some stuff above them.

>and that starts with the assumption that you mixed up Hexeris1 and Hexeris2 as an honest mistake

>>49933697
Man that is a cool fucking model. I have been thinking of getting into Hordes, specifically Circle so a few questions

Are there any good guy Circle or are they all Innawoods murderdicks?

Can you do a Warbeast focused Army?

Is that model you posted huge?

>>49987972
>>49987930
I think the people that don't rate Hexxy1 just haven't used him or Hexxy2. Hexxy2's problem is that he needs to actually hit with Ashes to Ashes to kill infantry, whereas an Obliteration can miss but still take out half a unit. If you want Ashes to Ashes, bring Orin, because it's his star action. The field marshal is very overrated.

Mordikaar's problems are 1) titans and cataphracts (see: glorious Revive targets) lost DEF, completely shitting on his feat, 2) Revive got shit on for no good fucking reason, 3) Essence Blast is worse with less infantry on the table, 4) Manifest Void will NEVER catch anything worthwhile, and does even less against Warmachine factions, 5) he has a wasted ability in the cull soul thing because enemy models should never really get within 2" of him anyway. Yes Void Spirits and Despoiler got sweet buffs, but who really cares when the rest of the warlock is so useless now?

Though I do find it funny how Abuse and feat alone make Morghoul1 one of our best warlocks.

Cataphracts are definitely pointless with mordikaar. I like the idea of taking legends of halaak with him, plus maybe ferox and karax. Stuff that's got enough def for the feat to matter, and reviving ferox is pretty decent. But legends of halaak get up to something like def 18 in melee under the feat, and do solid damage. Karax with set defense are def 17 vs charges. This is the list I'm thinking about using currently:

http://conflictchamber.com/#b91b4t5GcQ6Afs676a5U6x6xcv

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Despoiler [18]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Legends of Halaak [8]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [21]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]

Yo why do Trencher Rifle Grenadiers not have CRA for their standard shot type? The rule should read something like:

"Attack Type - Each time this weapon is used to make an attack, choose one of the following special rules:

Rifle Shot - This attack is POW 11, this model has CRA when choosing this rule

Rifle Grenade - ...."

guys need some help remembering if Khador has a warcaster that uses zombies. Honestly im too lazy to check it myself.

>>49988655

Zerkova was probably the closest, though I believe either one of Vlad's ancestors, who had the Throne of Khador for a time, or one of the past king's of Khador dabbled heavily in Necromancy.

>>49988356
As much as I don't rate Mord, I do rate Mord Spirits ability to wipe out infantry. Like nigger you don't need the Karax here if Ferox are your tarpit. Here's how I'd Mord.

>Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points
>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
> - Titan Cannoneer [17]
Kills infantry, threatens heavies, gives Snipe to Mord's POW13 gun.
> - Titan Gladiator [14]
> - Bronzeback Titan [18]
This is mainly for the additional armour cracking from base PS17 fists.
> - Despoiler [18]
Dude is sweet.
> - Cyclops Raider [9]
The last thing to go in the list. Not comfortable putting anything up front so fuck it, RNG14 boostable gun it is.
>Void Spirit [4]
>Void Spirit [4]
>Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
>Nihilators (max) [15]
My personal tarpit of choice.

I'd almost be tempted to swap the Nihilators for another Gladiator, cut the Raider, and bring anything at all that can help clear infantry. Orin, Master Tormentors, what the fuck ever.

>>49988701
thanks tons.

>>49988838
The only time I would take a raider is if I wanted to far strike his gun and didn't have a cannoneer. Seriously, look into legends of halaak. Point for point they're one of skorne's best offensive options and the feat means they can live to do their thing.

Ferox are there for speed and offense, not so much for tarpitting. Nihilators just don't hit hard enough against armor for me to want to spend the extra 4 points over karax. I don't need a 15 point infantry clearing unit, while ferox can at least hurt things.

Does Sevvy1 benefit from Eye of Menoth? Does it boost his spells?

>>49989006
>Ferox are there for speed and offense
>Nihilators just don't hit hard enough against armor
Like nigger they're both PS12, except Nihilators have an extra point of MAT. That's the big difference between Nihilators and everything else for me. Sure Karax are cheap, but damn son they can't actually kill anything. 4 points to turn your tarpit into a real threat and give them tough is a sweet deal. Reviving a Nihilator behind a row of infantry is also a huge pain for your opponent for so many reasons. Nihilators do everything that Karax do outside of blast damage, but at 13ARM they can actually survive a blast when most are POW7. Like, a good amount of my games are against Legion, so I see Hex Hunters a lot. They'd make very quick work of a unit of Karax.

Legends don't really seem special to me. They look like expensive Praetorian Swordsmen. They can't crack armour, they can't solo hunt, they have no tricks. The only thing I like is J'deth's combo smite because Xerxis has taught me the value of playing pool with enemy models, but I ain't paying 2.66 points per model for that.

And yeah the Raider is shit and I hate it, but what do you do with your last 9 points in that list? Agonizer and Bellows Crew? Orin and PGMT? Cut Raider and Nihilators, add Zaadesh + Brute + Savage, max Handlers, and Bellows crew?

>>49989581
Oh, both are P+S 12? That's interesting. So brutal charge doesn't exist?

And did you happen to know that Legends has Flank?

>>49989679
Oh, and you quote the extra point of MAT when cavalry get boosted charge attack rolls. Or if they're jumping then they use CMA to go up to pow 14s on their pounce anyway and they're mat 8 in the rear arc.

So Zaadesh2 has Burning Ash

>>49987964
>>49989791
Please just tell me he's Fury7 and has more than 2 spells (not counting nukes). Just let him be a real walock.

>>49989892
>"And those flavour reasons are why we have decided to make Zaadesh2 the first fury 4 warlock in Skorne." - Jason Soles, last words.

>>49942735
It has like 3 attacks. Thats not usable

>>49989679
>Oh, both are P+S 12? That's interesting. So brutal charge doesn't exist?
So PS14+3d6? That's less damage than 2xPS12+3d6. And those 2 Nihilators only cost you 3 points, when the Ferox cost you 4.2. If you want infantry for the purpose of cracking armour in Skorne, Nihilators are a MUCH better choice. This isn't even considering how easy it is to prevent Ferox from being able to jump. They're a large based model and have to jump completely within 5". That's so easy to stop it's silly. And if they can't jump, they are ACTUALLY fucking garbage.

Like, I'm sorry if you actually bought a unit of Ferox, but there's no need to take it out on me. You need to let go. If jump was changed to within 5" instead of completely within, then I'd be onboard the Ferox train.

>>49990065
Those 2 nihilators also have 2 less inches of threat and no native pathfinder.

>>49989067
Oops, meant improve, not boost (cuz that's something else).
Furthermore, does his feat stop magic special actions? I only found a mk2 ruling which said, but I don't know how the feat changed in mk3, because it says spells.

New Thread with new TEXT PASTIE

>>49990867
>>49990867
>>49990867
>>49990867