Death is for the living, it has no power over the damned edition

>>49940339
If Acti-Blizzard though it was viable they would have tried to shill it already, go back to >>>/v/ WoW fags

>>49940339
>Warcraft 2 / Warcraft Adventures
>Alex is Dragonqueen, all Dragons are her offspring, she's literally oldest living flying lizard, still small enough so an orc could comfortably ride on her back
>Deathwing is just a douchebag prince tryin'a get on the throne
>No mention of dragonflights as far as I'm aware from this source

vs.

>Knaak
>5 Dragonaspects are literal (demi)-gods who are basically a part of Azeroth due to maybe or maybe not being elemental spirits that have assumed a corporeal shape and have been granted guardianship over the planet by Titans
>Alex is for some reason crowned Dragonqueen, greatest of all aspects despite Ysera having an actual connection to nature and thus life on azeroth and Neltharion/Deathwing being the steward of the very earth
>Are practically irrelevant because with godlike power came godlike butthurt due to Black Dragons being best

vs.

>WotLK/Chronicles
>Dragons are evolved flying lizards and Titans just decided to empower them for some fucking reason
>Mostly a variation/expansion on Knaak
>Corruption! CORRUPTION I SAY!

So which one was the most promising? Would a combination of all three actually bring their most interesting features together or just create an even worse sludge of utterly rapemurdered lore?

>>49940784
pre-Knaak is best, where dragons are just Smaug but not inherently dicks
Knaak had some neat ideas, but retconning them into place and the whole concept of the Bronze Dragoflight fucked up everything

>>49940499
It's /vg/ they should go back to.

It's a damn shame, because the refugees who've fled here don't realize that as much as they hate the WoW players in /vg/, they're really just cut from the same cloth, and other people don't bother distinguishing them from each other.

They need to go back.

one thing I hope Legion expands on more is how the Legion actually works
we were always led to believe it was some kind of military dictatorship with Archimonde and Kil'jaeden sharing rulership, but throughout the expansions it's been portrayed to be increasingly decentralized to the point that in Legion there are several demons who seem to have their own independent fiefdoms that act in concert with the Legion but aren't directly under it's control

in addition, the races present in Legion invasions seems to constantly change. Where succubi were once very common demons, they were slowly replaced by the shivarra (who seem to be late to the Legion party but True Believers in its cause like the Nathrezim and pit lords) and then the inquisitors and jailers (who we know nothing at all about)

hopefully later patches expand the story around the Legion's politics

>>49940339
Lich King Bolvar for King of Azeroth.

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Whats your opinion on Troll Death Knights? are they worthy of joining the World police?

>>49944947
All are welcome in the Scourge World Police.

Except pandaren, goblins, and gnomes.

>>49945779
there is 1 pandaren DK
>>49941494
its probably a loose coalition at this point.
and locks probably summoned succubi to get demonic waifus.

Whats /tg/'s reason to hate goblin warriors and dks? They're awesome compared to the gnomes.

>>49946792
no they are not.
goblins are the lolrandumb boom xD race.

>>49940784
>Actual Chronicles
Proto Dragons are remaining Elementals that got fleshy forms, which Tyr had idea to empower for the sake of additional forces against Old Gods

>>49946792
There's nothing inherently wrong with Warcraft goblins and gnomes

But there is something wrong with how they've been handled, there's potential there, but it's been consistently thrown away for the sake of making sure goblins and gnomes remain the "funny" races

>>49940784

>Warcraft Adventures

>There isn't a blood curse
>Orcs dig war and Thrall reunites the clans for more war
>Necromancy is an Orcish habit

Better Orc?

>>49948125
Yup.

>>49948657

How would WC3 go with all that? Do they still hang out with Tauren? Would they team up with Stormwind or Theramore to beat an invasion of the Underworld?

>>49948125
>No blood curse
Inherently much more interesting premise, yes. Although I like the Film's approach where Orcs would willingly accept MORE POWER, without backpedalling at the last moment with "We wuz mindcontrolled lol"

>Orcs dig war

Not as easy as that, I'm afraid. They're a tribal culture that sees war as a viable way of supporting their lives, but is capable of living quietly off the land for as long as that is more beneficial. Combat prowess plays a big role in canon lore and adventures, so it's save to assume canon orcs also love to fight. This point is tied.

>Necromancy is Orcish habit
Communing with the dead is a very shamanistic thing indeed. It's a mostly DnD-ish view to brand necromancy as enslaving the dead or desecrating dead bodies into service. I would definitely like to have orcs continue with more occult magics tied into their shamanistic religion, but tone down on the damnation aspect. Just because you woke up Grandfather Urzuk from the afterlife to have a chat or protect your home in your hour of need doesn't sentence him or you to hell.

>>49948813
If Blizzard had done their homework, it would be no issue at all. All the aspects in Adventures are fairly common in historical tribal cultures, who could be warlike but also capable of trade and interaction without resolving to combat. Willingness to take what they wanted by force is not the same as seeing violence as the only possible solution.

I imagine they would get along fairly well with Tauren, because they, too are a tribal society that wouldn't abhor violence or martial prowess and would likely have occult practices of their own. Spirit Walkers are pretty much necromancers in a way, walking between the worlds and pulling the dead back from the afterlife - Just without the whole "damnation"-shtick.

Teaming up with Theramore would also be possible, however only if Thrall has a Taretha Foxton showing him that not all humans are scumbags towards orcs.

>>49946321
>its probably a loose coalition at this point.
that seems to be the case, with Archimonde dying all the time and Kil'jaeden moping over Velen, the Legion probably tends to rally around the strongest of their lieutenants, like Mephistroth and whoever is supposed to be in charge of Niskara
>and locks probably summoned succubi to get demonic waifus.
maybe, but there can't be that many lonely warlocks. I'm still hoping that the inquisitors orchestrated some kind of Halo 2-style coup to oust the succubi as the Legion's preferred spies

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>>49946321
>and locks probably summoned succubi to get demonic waifus.
Possible. But according to canon, the succubus will begin to grow inordinately attached and obsessed with their master and go full yandere, sabotaging any relationship with any other female that may come into his life.

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>>49949288
>but there can't be that many lonely warlocks.
Brah, if they weren't socially maladjusted weirdos, they never would have drunk the fel Kool-Aid to begin with.

>>49949357
sure, but there can't be enough to depopulate an entire species. Especially when half of them are gonna summon a felguard for medieval school shootings instead

>>49949343
Wasn't that only mentioned in the old RPG books which aren't canon?

>>49941494
In the Affliction Warlock artifact lore, you find out that not all demons sided with Sargeras. All the ones who didn't got trapped inside the scythe he made to imprison them that becomes the Aff Lock artifact. It's name, Ulthalesh, comes from the most powerful demon who resisted Sargy and who continuously devours the souls of anyone killed by the scythe as well as any servant of Sargeras whom he grants it as a weapon.

And as a Warlock, you go into a new plane, murder a Pit Lord, carve out his heart and use it to take command of his army of demons.
The demons do seem to have minds of their own, but still subservient.

From what's been shown, it's more that Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden are the most powerful of all of the demon lords, but the Legion is not quite so vertically integrated that there aren't less-powerful, but independent demon lords with their own armies and fiefdoms within the Twisting Nether.

Basically, all demons out there serve Sargeras, but not all serve the same chain of command.

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>>49949462
You may be right.
I thought it had been mentioned by the descriptor in the Exodar or one of the briefings leading up to Legion.
Checked Exodar, just says that they're rather sadistic interrogators.

>>49949478
>And as a Warlock, you go into a new plane, murder a Pit Lord, carve out his heart and use it to take command of his army of demons.
that's what got me thinking of the subject
despite commanding Jagganoth, the Eredar Twins, and the largest demon stronghold in the Broken Isles, Mephistroth seems to be mostly independent from Kil'jaeden and Sargers

>>49941494
Matron gives an insight on how Shivarra think, she defected because she realised in the long run Legion plans are not what Shivarras want because if you end all life there will be no life to torment.

>>49949914
>because if you end all life there will be no life to torment.
I was expecting the Old Gods to join our side against the Legion for the reasoning but it didn't happen

>>49949550
Original Legion Chain of Command:
Archimonde - Mannoroth - Pit Lords
Kil'jeaden -,Dreadlords Triumvirate (Tichondrius, Mephistroth, Anetheron) - Dreadlords
And varying armies under command of the above.

Now there are Eredar Lords, Doom Lord Krosus,

Most demons belongs to general chain of command, but they tend to have varying degree of independence.

>>49950406
With Eredar Lords I would assume such approach to determine command:
Brutally Cunning - Kil'jeaden (corruption, infiltration, seeking new allies/recruits to Legion)
Cunningly Brutal - Archimonde (armies doing destruction)

And then there are those who works directly under Sargeras, depending what gifts they receive (Ulthalesh and Fangs of the Devourer - users of those worked directly under Sargeras).

>>49950406
>>49950511
this makes sense as a loose framework, but once you get past the lieutenants you get pit lords working underneath dreadlords and dreadlords working for Archimonde

So the legion is the
>
>
>

>>49950748
Vol'taaire pls

>>49941176
This. We don't want constant wow/legion generals over at /v/ either

>>49950748
>It is Burning, for Fel Fire is the most repeating theme among Demons (besides those that prefer Shadow, like Nathrezim).
>It is Legion, for its numbers are beyond mortal ability to count.

So Voltaire would have to go for
>
>
Unless you use The Burning Legion, in which case
>It is The, for there is only one Burning Legion.

>>49951057
good thing no one's tried to fight the Legion with satire and cutting French wit

>>49950389
The Old Gods oppose the Burning Legion because the Legion wants to destroy them. The torment part is probably part of it, though.

However, the whispers from that Emerald Nightmare boss imply something along those lines. It implies that the Pillars of Life will free the Old Gods, and we've also been told that the Pillars will unlock the key to defeating the Burning Legion.

I'm betting that the latter is true, because the former happens.

>>49949478
>And as a Warlock, you go into a new plane, murder a Pit Lord, carve out his heart and use it to take command of his army of demons.
God fucking damn it Blizzard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ

>>49951736
Warlocks end up with the most power by fluff. But get shat on by the game mechanics.

>>49951995
They really should have aborted that whole "greatest hero of azeroth" angle. Completely unfitting for a MMO

>>49952022
Yeah, but it's kinda hard to justify everyone being nameless murderhobos when we've saved the world so many times.
I agree it's gone too far because there's so little you can go from here, but a little recognition is nice now and then.

>>49952022
But how else they can make the players feel important? It is not like they'll let players to kill anyone important, not at least permanently.

>>49952139
>World of Warcraft - Masters of the Deep rolls around
>it ends up with player becoming the supreme leader of their faction
>not that it affects the gameplay anyway and even though you're a warchief/high king you still have to go and get 50 zandalari foreskins for the guy x so that he will give you your new flight card

>>49951995
You forget the part where Warriors get the entire Army of Ulduar at their disposal, and this includes a giant orbital Death laser.

>>49952195
And let me guess, you'll only get to use it once in a quest and then it is forgotten completely?

>>49952209
No, it's not even mentioned at all, the Warrior quest is so fucking lackluster but it places so much power in the hands of the Warrior in theory.

>Become Odyn's head honcho
>Thorium and Hodir are your subordinates
>TITANIC WATCHERS are your errand boys
>Odyn says you now command the titanic forces across Azeroth
>Uldum has a death laser

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>>49952253
Everyone on the Legion team needs to swing

>Backstory keeps hammering how Odyn is literally worse than Hitler for making Helya into a val'kyr
>Odyn in-game is nothing but helpful and respectful; most bro-tier character other than the Nightfallen, in fact
So... which one is it?

>>49953262
Well, he's been stuck in his floating fortress for over 10 000 years, so he's probably had some time to think about how he acted like an asshole and decided to be nicer from now on.

He'll still vaporize you if you ask him about Loken, though.

>>49953350
Well, the way the question is worded you do come off as an impudent asshole rubbing salt into 10000-year old wound, so you sort of have it coming.

It's a shame there's no option to actually ask him what Loken said though.

>>49949478
>In the Affliction Warlock artifact lore, you find out that not all demons sided with Sargeras. All the ones who didn't got trapped inside the scythe he made to imprison them that becomes the Aff Lock artifact. It's name, Ulthalesh, comes from the most powerful demon who resisted Sargy and who continuously devours the souls of anyone killed by the scythe as well as any servant of Sargeras whom he grants it as a weapon.

Okay, this sounds awesome to adapt to a game.

What does the weapon do? Any more lore on it?

>>49953572
It absorbs the soul and life-force of anybody killed with it, and is also the reason Deadwind Pass is called Deadwind Pass (long ago, some demon used the scythe in a ritual to literally drain the life from the land, leaving the area dead and barren forevermore). The demon inside it is also implied to manipulate things to that the weapon's current wielder ends up dying by their own blade (and he gets their soul), and it's supposed to be on of the few things Sargeras himself fears, as in the right hands it could be used to trap his soul as well.

>>49953572
Lorewise is drinks the soul of any one and anything killed near it. It was also used in the War of the Ancients to drain the life out of Deadwind Pass. It's the reason Deadwind is and has been dead for 10,000 years.
Of course, Ulthalesh inside the scythe can whisper to the wielder and eventually the scythe consumes whoever uses it, adding their power to its own.
It's mentioned that Sargeras fears the weapon because it has virtually unlimited potential for growth and that Ulthalesh is in there, consuming all the souls the scythe consumes, and growing in power until he can break free. And when he does, there's no telling what his power may be.

In the game, you consume up to 12 soul fragments to empower your spells by 10% damage per stack for 10 seconds per stack.
Sadly, Affliction is pathetically weak for damage. I haven't tested the 7.1 buffs, but they're not too much. Still, it's the best spec for questing due to the survivability of drain tanking.

>>49953632
>>49953648
Sounds great. No Warcraft-themed campaigns going on right now, but it should be easy to adapt to D&D just fine. Is Ulthalesh an eredar, a pitlord, a dreadlord...?

Also, any other artifacts that could be adapted to epic-level weapons?

>>49953713
Dreadlord. Here's the WoWHead article on it, including all the lore notes.
http://www.wowhead.com/guides/artifact-weapons/ulthalesh-affliction-warlock

>>49953713
There's the Destruction Warlock item, the Scepter of Sargeras, which can is the only item that has literally shattered a world.
It was the tool that Ner'zhul used to open hundreds and thousands of portals across Draenor with that eventually shattered the planet into Outland.

And other than old-lore-heavy artifacts like Ashbringer and Doomhammer, the rest are pretty much "LIterally Who?" tier.

>>49953713
Probably most of them, since they're all basically epic-level weapons. Some are heavily tied to the lore (Like the motherfuckin Ashbringer), while some are pretty dull an uninteresting (like havoc DH artefact, which is literally just the weapons of some guy who got killed by the players 5 expasions ago, now empowered by Kil'jaeden), though. In between those you have some that while not particularly relevant, still have an interesting backstory. Like Vengeance DH artefact being the personal weapons of a warrior-king of a race so badass they resisted the full might of the Legion until Sargeras himself showed up to stomp them, and even then the king was badass enough that when his entire race was destroyed he feigned submission and then cut Sargeras when he let his guard down, just to spite him.

I kinda like how the Unholy Death Knight weapon is essentially the Biblical Four Horseman of the Apocalypse rolled into a sword.

>>49955458
Edgy

>>49955629
Well, it IS a sword.

New cinematic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eAmxFXw5Ts

I fucking hate the mary sue edgelord illidan has ebcome

>>49955705
Cheeky

>>49953866
Alderachi warblades is a who? Tier weapon but I do like the lore on it.

>>49956539
Isn't it supposed to be revealed in the Mythic version that Khadgar fucks up while trying to return Illidan's soul to his body, and something "much darker" (probably related to Old Gods, considering the hints we've gotten) will end up in his body.

I do find it amusing that Illdan has now consumed two separate Skull Guldans

>>49956625
I thought that was the questline leading up to the raid and this is the end of the raid.

>>49956625
I hope so, because it further fuels the theory that Xe'ra is not all it appears to be.

>>49952253
>ebon blade knigths and dk followers are used to for the same garrison missions
Either titan servants aren't that strong, or other class' followers are that good.

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>>49956539
>Illidan is all like: "now follow me into the abyss"
This was hilarious.

>>49940499
>Stares at his pdfs of the Warcraft and World of Warcraft RPG books sitting in his RPG folder.

You only don't know about it because it wasn't successful enough to mention at the time.

>>49953866
I'm disappointed that Gul'dan doesn't use the Skull of Ner'zhul to help open the portals

it was almost a perfect callback to BtDP

What is the source of Blizzard's focus on Dindu Nuffins (Orcs, Forsaken, Illidan, etc.)?

>>49956625
>I do find it amusing
It makes perfect sense for him to destroy the second one, too - it's Unique-Equipped.

>>49957752
We don't know what happened to Ner'zhul's skeleton. He escaped off exploding Draenor, but was captured by Kil'Jaeden and being tortured and then his soul slapped into the Lich King form to form the Scourge.
So either his body is completely eradicated or sitting on Kil'Jaeden's shelf somewhere.
But AU Ner'zhul got knocked into a death dimension and that tended to give a "Time is but a window, death is but a doorway, I'll be back" sort of vibe.
Of course, that is if Blizzard wants to acknowledge WoD any more than it absolutely has to beyond its current favorite smug orc.

>>49957868
Eh, half of it is largely shit-tier writing.
The undead going completely evil in Cata ties in well with what Sylvannas's character development, but the whole Garrosh in MoP shenanigans/WoD stuff was largely a complete derailing.
Iirc there was this dev talk about how a few people missed the memo that Garrosh was not meant to become a villain, went ahead with it, and then it was too late to change things back.

>>49953866
I know Frost Artifact is new, but calling something made out of Frostmourne shards literally who? is a little bit too much
I also like the sword that became powerful because of how many trolls he killed. It was mentioned, but nobody cared about it

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>>49957988
>>49957868
>Forsaken
>evil
Worgen detected

>>49957988
Don't encourage him by responding, he's just a memeing faggot.

>>49956539
>This video is private
Teasing, are we?

>>49958052

MMO Champion poster found.

>>49958082

>triggered

Don't you have a BLM chimpout to visit?

>>49958275
>MMO Champion
Literally who?

>>49958295

A board filled with SJWs and/or Horde Dindu Nuffin (they overlap) posters

>>49958309
"Filled" is such a dirty word if we're considering their lore forums. There's like 5 unique regular posters in there and all they ever seem to talk about is how Vereesa is a terrorist race traitor and high elves should be gassed.

>>49958355
>Vereesa is a terrorist race traitor and high elves should be gassed.
both objectively correct desu

>>49958355
>high elves should be gassed.
They already seem like cool people

>>49958373

Horde Dindu Nuffin poster found.

>>49958373
>>49958393
Legitimate albeit wrong opinions, but the way those people obsess about it is just unhealthy.
At least here people don't take Warcraft """"lore"""" seriously and have fun while picking it apart.

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>>49958467
I just enjoy shitposting about warcraft """lore""".
On a related note, Putress was white and based and did nothing wrong

>>49958500
He did poison Arthas with his plague and the rest are just collateral damage who should've gotten the fuck out of the way.

>>49958500
>tfw death knights go to hell and kill his soul instead of raising him to conduct chemical warfare against the Legion

>>49958526
This.
>>49958534
He'd probably brew up a new plague to get rid of Bolvar

>>49958534
Why do DKs get to do all the cool shit in their class campaign?
I finished my Spriest's one yesterday and all it amounted to was basically "pester paladins for aid".

>>49958577
>Why do DKs get to do all the cool shit in their class campaign?
to make up for nearly useless in group content

>>49958606
So Blizzard still on the warpath even though it has been over half a decade since DKs were op.

>>49958606
Git gud. I'm doing fine.

>>49958052
>deploying the plague
>ever

>doing to hundreds of souls what Arthas did to your true people
>ever

>strongarming your true people into throwing bodies at Northrend when they barely have any bodies left
>ever

See, if Sylvanas had gotten a hug or spent some time in the sun or something maybe none of this would have happened. I mean, living in the Undercity this whole time? Depressing surroundings can do some sick things to a person.

A vacation in Silvermoon might actually do her some good, ya know?

>>49959274
>blood elves and forsaken will never fuck off to make their own faction, with mana wells and human experimentation
Waiting for actual progression in WoW is suffering

>>49959301
>Blood Elves
>Doing anything

C'mon it's time to let go.

>>49959301
The blood elves are just as annoyed with the Forsaken as everyone else in the Horde.

>>49958309

>garithos dindu nuffin
>daelin proudmoore dindu nuffin
>implying you're any better than the people you shit on

the irony is astounding

>>49959799

>Garithos gets turned on by Sylvanas. Kael'thas gets triggered at having to do work and is quick to hop on Illidindu's cock.
>The Horde goes to war with the Alliance. And then Warlords of Draenor comes and shows all the warring Orcs do without Demon Dew.

Stay triggered.

>>49958267
>gul'dan does generic THIS CANNOT BE
>ritual portal stuff blows up
>suddenly illidan
>just randomly oneshots gul'dan who does nothing
>turns to the player and khadgar and demands you pathetic mortal scum follow him into the abyss

>>49959973

>garithos starts shit with everyone including his own allies
>unsurprisingly is betrayed and murdered
>"garithos dindu nuffin!"

stay on that moral high ground, wouldnt want you to trip over your own hypocrisy

>>49959996
Nice, another killstealing mary sue. We totally didn't have enough of those in the WoD.

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>>49959996

>>49960009

>He was mean to me so I'll chimpout

Where am I? Twitter?

>>49958035
The sword simply is a titan creations sword that has been passed down from vrykul to human

>>49960049

you go ahead and attack that strawman, bro

>>49960049

>mean to me
>tries to execute the son of an allys head of state

Not even that anon but even Rommath wants to burn you.

>>49960049
>a military commander with no capacity for efficient command or efficient troop use who tried to pull an Uriah gambit over what is effectively a childhood grudge against an entire race of people, only achieved command by not actually being in the fight against the Scourge until everyone of higher rank was dead, and was dumb enough to trust not one, but TWO Dreadlords

>doing nothing wrong

>>49958577
DK stuff is retarded and can be summed up as them becoming LKs errand boys which in itself is retarded because someone in the Ebon blade should've gone "I ain't fucking joining the scourge again"

>hurr durr lets attack the paladins because big LK voice in our head said so

Only LK fan boys think this is a good Campaign

>>49960189

They shouldn't have left the Scourge how they did.

>>49950893
Yeah, Ameizing Overwatch threads is what we want.

>>49949357
>Jessica anner coloured succubi kissing each other
I bet you they knew what they were doing

>>49960771
Those are the Eredar Twins, not succubi.

>>49960833
ah, I see
still, it's pretty close to what I'm talking about and the degenerate in me won't let that possibility go

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>>49958267

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oghbgBoZek

>>49961888
>The skull again

10/10 resubscribing

>>49961888
Friendly reminder that they're continuing to just redo SC2 with WoW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPpMoaIGud4

>>49962128
>friendly reminder
>friendly

Anon, reminding me of SC2 is not friendly.

>>49961888
Damn it Blizz, stop kill stealing from us.

>>49962303
I'm sorry.

But this way you won't be as surprised when the cutscene of light god Illidan smiting down Sargeras comes out.

>>49962615
I already wasn't going to be surprised, this is just pouring salt in the wounds.

>>49961888
>Destroying the Skull of Gul'dan
What a waste, Illidan. Didn't wanted to make the first skull jealous?

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>>49962615
>Thinking that Illidan will become Light-based
>Not realizing that Child of Light and Shadow means that Illidan is a demon
>Forgetting that Fel came to be where Void and Light have clashed and annihilated each other
Illidan stays demon, he will simply start using his brain properly.

Let Legion come.

>>49963401
Illidan actually using his brain? I think you're giving him a little too much credit.

Anyway who the hell is leading the Darkspear now? Aside from Rokhan they have absolutely no plot relevant characters still alive.

>>49950748
Can someone explain this meme ?

>>49963494
>This agglomeration which was called and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire.
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire

>>49961888
Well at least he didn't say "oh my god it's you guys again I can't believe you killed me what wasnt the first time enough i mean you killed me when I was doing my secret work oh Tyrande this just isnt fair"

>>49963469
Nobody, Blizz doesn't give a shit. Orcs went an entire expansion with no racial leader unless you count Thrall. They care even less about the Darkspear.

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>>49964051
>Thrall

Excuse me, dont you mean Go'el?

>>49964132
What we need is a Warlords of Azeroth expansion so we can get old Thrall back.

>>49964325
>dark portal opens s gateway to yet another alternative timeline
>world is ruled over by evil alliance and thrall is part of it
>all hail thrall blackmoore the king of orcs and the executioner of the alliance
>join up with doomhanmer's resistance (if horde) or paladin-prince arthas' rebellion (if alliance) and beat up evil humies, elf and dorfs

>>49940339
I'd love to see a licensed Warcraft tabletop minis game. Basically like Warmahordes, you have a hero with a bunch of spells (Paladin has armor auras, can heal units, beats things pretty well in melee, mage does mage things, warrior can taunt a model or unit to attack him etc) leading an army into battle, could be neat.

>>49965013
But Age of Sigmar already exists

>>49965022
Now imagine if it was good and had a Warcraft theme.

That's what I want.

>>49965033
Well age of shit is pretty warcrafty already so now you only have to make it good.

>>49964987
This reminds me, back in TBC the whole reasoning behind saving Medivh's ass in Black Morass was because the human kingdoms would fight each other otherwise and get assraped by the Legion afterwards.

Hasn't the whole Orclords of Orcnor thing basically doomed alternate Azeroth to said Legion assraping?

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>>49949343
>yandere succubi that lusts for your dick the more you adventure with her

>>49965083
Yandere is the best dere.

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>>49940339
>Warcraft
>lore

>>49965053
There are a good number of reasons why WoD is so stupid that the entire series makes more sense if you just assume it jumped straight from MoP to Legion, and that is just one of them

>>49953262
>Nightfallen
>bro-tier

Nigga, they're nothing but a bunch of crack junkies who still push you around like an errand boy even though you single handedly brought them back from the brink of death. Oculeth is the only bro-tier Nightfallen tbqh

>>49965103
Sounds like an oxymoron, to me

I actually enjoy the bromance between Thessarian and Koltira.
>TFW I try and send them off on missions together and imagine them doing stupid/daring shit to try and out do the other.

How much of a faggot am I?

>>49965857
>tfw the follower limit is 5 so to actually do missions you have to deactivate either one of the horsemen or Thassarian/Koltira
bigger follower limit when

>>49965857
Slightly less of a faggot than Wrathion/Anduin shippers.

>>49965053
Don't worry, alternate-reality Deathwing will show up and kill the Burning Legion

>>49965912
But I don't ship them, Anon.
I just like the cross-race/faction bromance between two dead dudes

>>49965053
There's a good chance that there is no AU Azeroth, and that WoD Draenor exists in a pocket dimension on its own.

>>49965053
The thing about it is they're all "AU knock offs" and it's only Azeroth Prime that the Legion want... or something.
Apparently it's gone from them wanting all the magic to them trying to corrupt the fetal Titan inside of Azeroth.

>>49965103
>>49965440

>>49961888

purple jesus

>>49965053
>Hasn't the whole Orclords of Orcnor thing basically doomed alternate Azeroth to said Legion assraping?
There is no AU Azeroth, as alternative timelines usually exists for just a moment of time, unless some seriously powerful magic sustains them.

And WoD Draenor had Bronze Dragon's artifact made from stuff from Timeless Isle, and then it got connected to Azeroth's Dark Portal.

>>49965205
Yeah but where did Gul'Dan come from then? Was he just walking around skull less for awhile?

>>49966834
Wait... does that mean that as soon as we left WoD it ceased to exist? Please tell me that is a thing that happened.

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>>49961888 (checked)
Get in losers, we're off to fight the demons in hell.

>>49967627
well, nobody remembers it anymore
I kinda wonder what happened to Yrel since she fits to the "champion of light and darkness" thing they are pushing in Legion

>>49967890
I do remember all the faps to Yrel though

>>49967627
Unfortunately, not., as it never got disconnected from the Dark Portal.

While Outland needs to use discount dimensional gate in Caverns of Time.

>>49959996
>>49961888
>Gul'Dan dies in the first patch
>Doesn't scheme and warlock his way up the ranks in the Legion, becoming the ultimate fel orc until he's a major boss in the final raid of Legion

My god how much does Blizzard love wasting their characters? This is getting out of hand!

>>49968047
Final boss will be Kil'Jaden again, count on it.

>>49968047
Can't have Gul'dan steal their newest Mary Sue's show, can we?

>>49968092
This expansion is all about making the players feel cool. Final boss will be Sargeras.

Either an avatar or the real deal.

We'll be lucky if they remember Azshara and Kil'jaeden enough for them to get their own raids

>>49968092
>>49968203
I'm thinking Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden together.

>>49968047
>>49968092
Final boss is something we don't expect
Propably an Old God/Old God minion or Alexstrasza

>>49968331
Xe'ra.

>>49968362
Is there anyone that expects her NOT to turn evil?

>>49968377
Everyone who doesn't frequent this board and has any semblance of interest in WoW, i assume.

Most WoW-players apparently have a frighteningly strong suspension of disbelief and just go with the flow of things. I wouldn't be surprised that everyone without the raging cynicism that 4chan in general breeds is sitting at their desktop right now thinking "Xe'ra is right! I should absolutely and undeniably feel bad for not knowing these vital pieces of information even though Illidan never ONCE stepped up and made an official declaration that he was up to some game changing activities! It's all my fault because a newly introduced character who is basically a flying insterstellar sorcerous windchime said so! Oh boy, Blizzard did it again! Kosak is the best author to ever grace this earth!"

>>49968377
I've seen some people drinking her Kool-Aid, as well as some that are firmly convinced her over-the-top shillling of Illidan isn't some kind of ploy.

It might be bad writing, but I feel like even Blizzard wouldn't go so far into outright shaming the players for essentially playing the game.

>>49967627
>MARAAD DIES FOR NOTHING
>Right when the PC leaves the pocket dimension is destroyed.
RIP Space goat husbando.

>>49968525
No one has ever claimed that the goats are a particularly smart race.

>>49967603
Daemons brought him back after recovering his skull from the Black Temple.

>>49968602
You know, just visually speaking, Goats are indeed GOAT. I wish there was a way for them to not be literal demigod lightworshipping angels come into mortal flesh to make them more humane and in line with the other races.

>>49969321
They're not even close to demigods with the way they always get slaughtered.

>>49968203
Look after the whole "Draenor is free!" thing at the end of the last expansion I don't have high hopes for the final boss of legion to be satisfying at all. Especially not with Gul'dan getting killstealed by a guy who decided his best course in life was to be an angsty teen for 10,000+ years.

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>>49969479
Guys guys guys! I know how to solve the "purple jesus" problem!

>>49969479
>start a war of genocide
>get your ass kicked by a kool-aid salesman
>switch sides on the last second
>get away scot-free

>>49969479
>a guy who decided his best course in life was to be an angsty teen for 10,000+ years.
Feel the hatred of ten thousand years!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62hK6yBoItQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3BUUVUsgOw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqeKgcYz7FY

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>>49969321
Easily the most fappable race in WoW desu. What shame that they had to rape the already existing draenei lore for them though.

>>49969884
Well at least we got a ton of literal rape for them.

The only good thing dindus ever did

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnSpispAP0M
What did Gul'dan see m8s?

>>49968203
>making players feel cool
>here's one big, long, purple, fel infested Illidan penis, suck it until you love it

>>49969884
Why is one colour of human more fappable than the other colours of human?

>>49970789
Because it's the color of people you have no negative experience with.

>>49970810
Unless you like breathplay

>>49946321
We raised her wrong, as a joke.

>>49958981
DK's are white man's class, they have the white man's guilt

>>49963401
>he will simply start using his brain properly
NOW THAT'S A RETCON.

>>49964987
>Ner'zul is still in the frozen cuck-chair.

>>49970193
He saw the future of Warcraft lore and any hope of WC4 burning.

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>>49964987
Arthas' rebellion against orcs
My fucking dick, but I still prefeer the presence of undead

>>49971907
>Young Bolvar heard the call of the Old Gods somewhere in his teen years, shortly after started joining the last order of Paladins, under Uther's command.
>Abandoned Stormwind during an orcish raid and flied to Theramore, according to some Twilight Hammer's guidance
>When he finally found a emmisary in Kalimdor's wilderness, chaos ensues and they mistakenly believe he a dangerous outsider spy and proceed to attack him
>In a defensive stance, the young man tries to escape but they catch him and start doing their crazy ritualistic stuff, scaring him so much he blocks his mind
>But then
>From nowhere
>Necromancers and undead warriors appear and start beating the shit up of the Purple clothies, all Bolvar could remember before passing out was to him trying to reconcilliate with the Light
>After waking up he find himself in the remains of the battle: dead and undead corpses everywhere, being rised by the surviving necros
>"We could barely save you, young man" a imponent old man said, "It was just matter of time before those cultists tried to eat you alive"
>Bolvar, being now shocked by the undeath around him, asks, "wh-who are you"
>"My name is not important. All that is important is than you, young man, have been chosen by our King as his champion"
>"N-No, the undead, this is no-not-"
>"His plan will be revealed in time, Bolvar Fordragon, but all we can assure you is this is that joining Him is the only way we can stop a bigger threat than the Orcish Onslaught"

I've been out of the loop for a while
Is Sylvanas or Jaina a raid boss yet?

>>49972581
No. But Sylvanas is making deals with crazy death goddesses and Jaina quit Dalaran in a hissy fit to run off to god knows where, so probably soon.

>>49969647
it worked for Italy twice

>>49972564
>remember, there must always be a Bolvar

>>49972581
Jaina is either corrupted by the Old Gods, corrupted by the Legion, or just a gigantic bitch. She'll probably be a raid boss by the end of Legion

>>49975075
Jaina needs to see a shrink.

No, seriously, why are there no therapists?

>>49975193

Every time someone mentions a shrink they get directed to the nearest gnome or goblin.

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>>49975250

>>49975075

Reminder that Jaina went downhill after RoC. Blizzard didn't know what to do with her since she (like Thrall) was a poorly fitting artifact of WC3 who didn't work for the faction war junk they kept pushing. She went from shilling the Wrynns to being a strawman who makes them look good.

>>49975250
A Tauren therapist would be the wisest and probably wouldn't be prescribing things left and right like a goblin would

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>>49975438
>probably wouldn't be prescribing things left and right like a goblin would

My sides

>>49975438
There's always the purple hippies like Malf.
But he'd probably recommend smelling some flowers and pounding Tyrande's sweet ass.

>>49975075

>I won't cuck for the Horde so I'm a raid boss

Top-notch writing there Blizzard. You can throw in Greymane too.

>>49971806
Stream that movie, if you're so great.

>>49975767
There's a difference between disliking the other faction and being a retard who wants to fight a separate war at the same time as defending the entire planet.

Unfortunately, Blizz always goes straight to the latter whenever they want a PvPy lore character on either side.

>>49940339
>huge world
>tons of locations
>long history
>tons of characters
>multiple races

how would it not be?

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>>49940339
>Discuss the lore and viability of Warcraft as a tabletop setting.
It's very viable as a tabletop setting, naturally.

For anyone running a Warcraft tabletop game, I recommend you put careful consideration into what the lingua franca's of the factions are, and how linguistically varied the races are.

Consider this, all non-mag'har orcs would be able to speak common at least partially thanks to time in internment camps, while most forsaken and blood elves would never have learned orcish, even the darkspear trolls have more reason to know common than orcish (living in relative proximity to human lands for millennia). So the Horde probably uses common as its common tongue, not orcish.

Then there's how multi-linguistic various cultures are. Chances are most gnomes are fluent in gnomish, dwarven and common, probably with a smattering of goblin in there too, with some of them being fluent in more. But most tauren can probably only speak taur-ahe, with few ever learning even common or orcish.

Then there's dialects. Cultural and physical separation brings about separate dialects. Dark Iron dwarvish probably sounds quite different to Ironforge or Wildhammer dwarvish. Forest (feralas), desert (thousand needles) and plains (mulgore/barrens) taur-ahe are probably all barely mutually-legible dialects, and even Stormwind, Tirasi, and Lordaeronian common would be quite different, probably more so than our American and British English

>>49975652
>pounding Tyrande's sweet ass.
Best therapist ever.

>>49975250
Goblin therapist:
>Hey, what you need ta know is that you got people who care about you, hell I care about you... NEXT!

Gnome therapist:
>I have invented this device that will allow me to psychically project myself into your head, from the inside I will be able to combat your inner demons directly!

>>49977689
Is Draenei Eredun mutually intelligible with Man'ari Eredun?

>>49978322
Well, the two races have spent something like 15,000 years apart I believe.

>>49978322
They'd be completely different languages. Like comparing modern Romanian to ancient Latin

>>49978563

That would be comparing a completely unrelated language.

>>49978696
If you're looking at 15,000 years of separate linguistic development by our standards, that's going back far enough that you're looking at not so much Latin, but the Italic language family, which is what Romanian is a part of.

>>49978765

Romanian is slavic, latinaboos just changed it from cyrillic to french loanwords in the 19th century.

>>49953866
Scythe of Elune had some great, if somewhat inconsistent lore dating back go Vanilla Dusk wood.

Blades of the Fallen Prince are great, too.

>>49954051
In my headcanon the Aldrachi are actually the Protoss.

>>49958606
>tank with the brez
>grip, gorefiends

That's some sexy utility for mythic+. We are pretty undertuned for raiding.

>>49978828
fuck you're right

Umm, ok it's like comparing Bavarian to Icelandic

Those are both gothic languages, I know that much

>>49979193
Well there's been a few jokes in Heroes of the Storm that Starcraft and Warcraft are the same universe, just separated by huge amounts of time.

>>49979193
En taro Toranaar

>>49977689
Ever tried to speak with a Liberian? They understand our English just fine but it's tough to parse what they're saying.

>>49977689
Would it be more appropriate to call Common "Arathi"?

Anyway Common is the main trade tongue, while Thalassian is likely the language of magic. I'd assume many magical texts are written in it and I'd expect most of the Kirin Tor to be fluent in both languages.

I agree that most of The Horde is fluent or at least familiar in Common, with the exception of the Tauren. Even Thrall himself didn't learn Orcish until he was an adult. However I believe there is a concentrated effort within The Horde to preserve Orcish as a language to try and establish their own culture.

>>49979827
I like it, I'm using it, "common" is a nickname given to the Arathi language due to its extensive use in trade.

Also I am now imagining an orcish teacher rapping a student across the knuckles for answering a question in common, not orcish

>>49977641

>Sylvanas Dindu Nuffin

>>49980015
Sylvanas did everything... why she's still alive while Vol'Jin is dead pisses me off.

>>49980028
Vol'jin didn't have tits.

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Wasn't there this one Centaur who joined the Horde in one of the comics?

Is he even a thing?

>>49979247
>>49978828
>Romanian is slavic
You are retarded, it's always been latin.
Even medieval italian explorers called it corrupted italian.
>latinaboos just changed it from cyrillic to french loanwords in the 19th century.
So, they changed the alphabet and some vocabulary, so it jumped AN ENTIRE LANGUAGE FAMILY?
I guess polish is latin then, and czech is germanic.

>>49980881

>romania
>medieval

???

Are you confusing it with the Latin Empire?

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>>49980917
Ignore their fan theories about Flaccus and inter-ethnic marriages.

>>49959596
yeah but their leader is banging sylvanas, and if it weren't for her they wouldn't even be in the horde

>>49981148
That is 1. not true, and 2. not a reason to like the Forsaken

That said, without Sylvanas they'd all be dead. Because without Forsaken support in the Ghostlands, Eversong and Silvermoon would have been overrun by undead

>>49981148
Don't slander Lor'themar like that. He's probably the sanest person in The Horde right now. And has done more to help his people than any other faction leader.

>>49981148
>yeah but their leader is banging sylvanas

Is this supposed to be an argument against or in support of Lor'themar?

>>49980666
You recruited an entire tribe of centaurs in Desolace, back in Vanilla.
In fact, a lot of things got recruited for the Horde or Alliance back then and it never went anywhere.

>>49981779
Presumably they all were expended as cannon fodder during the war against lich king.

>>49981230
>>49981201
>>49981148

>Blood Elves

>Horde

The Faction system is a mistake.

>>49979228
>>grip, gorefiends
rip in peace Gorefiend's on every spec with a reasonable cooldown

>>49981828
The Blood Elves have been burned by the Alliance twice now. First by Garithos and second by Jaina. They're not going back.

>>49981856
If it weren't for the Orcs, there'd be no Lich King and no Scourge to get them burned by either in the first place.

>>49981881
60% human.

>>49981981
Wouldn't that be 66.66666666666666666666666666666666667%?

>>49981881
Ner'zhul was made Lich King because Kil'jeaden was petty about him trying to cut their deal, which lead to Kil'jeaden getting Gul'dan as his disciple.

Basically any magician could be made into the Lich King.

>>49981856

Meanwhile the Orcs invaded Quel'Thalas and Undead steamrolled it. Garithos didn't have the approval of the Alliance's kings in his plot against the Blood Elves. And the Sunreavers were guilty of aiding the Horde under Garrosh.

If only there was a way to have Garrosh and Garithos make babies.

>>49982313
But they'd die to cranial eruption from their heads being so massively inflated

>>49982313

Both Garrosh and Garithos are shoehorned characters there to force a conflict.

>>49982396

Except garrosh SHOULD have got development because he was around in every expansion pack for almost the entire game, being warchief, groms son and shit. Garithos was just a random throwaway strawman.

>>49982611
>Garithos was just a random throwaway strawman.
and not even as good of a random throwaway strawman as Daelin Proudmoore

>>49982278
Two of Sunreavers does not make the entire faction.
While Lor'themar was doing talks with Alliance to rejoin it.
But of course Jaina was already biased against the Horde so much that she were looking for any excuse to unleash genocide on Sunreavers and all other Horde people in Dalaran that were not even aligned with them.

>>49982662

Thats exactly why he is so popular. He was a scenery chewing badguy, intentionally as banal and dislikeable as possible to build up sympathy for kael. And it failed. He was eventually proven right in everything and kael was a whiny bitch.

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>>49980666
>Feudal japanese dress
>On fat titted blonde warrior princess

It's beautiful.

>>49982676

>But of course Jaina was already biased against the Horde

yeah, any kind of repercussion for their actions must be some kind of bias aganist the horde

never mind that jaina literally killed her father in defense of the horde to give them a second chance

>>49982701
Redo of WoD where Jaina goes back and slaps Thrall in his stupid fat face before he can put delusions of grandeur in Garrosh's head when?

>>49981828
I agree on the faction system.

However I think that "the Horde" benefitted from mana vampire elves. If only they'd played that part up more instead of purifying the sunwell in the same expansion. Slowly watching the pretty high elves turn into fel degenerates would have been amazing.

I remember a time when the Horde was weak

Does anyone else remember that?

The Horde was great when it was weak, I'm pissed at Varian for not dismantling the Horde so the Horde could be a ragtag bunch misfits struggling for survival again

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>>49982861
>#makethehordenotgreatagain

>>49982701
After destruction of Theramore and attempting to destroy Orgrimmar with tidal wave made from Water Elementals she controls with Blue Dragonflight artifact, she wanted to remove Sunreavers from Dalaran from the beginning, with how Rhonin made her head of the Circle of Six.

When a crime is done by 2 people belonging to bigger faction, with doing it in secrecy from their leaders, you don't punish entire faction and everyone loosely associated with them, it makes you look like Banshee Queen.

>>49983184

>its bias to be nuked back after using a nuke
>its bias to be genocided back after trying to genocide all the humans and not even for the first time

I'm a hordefag since Wc2 and the cata-MoP horde of dindus deserve to be fucking purged

>>49965300
>Shit talking tsundere Valtrois

You, sir, are not my nigga.

>>49983257
I'm not saying that her wanting to retaliate for Theramore was bad, but chimping out at the entirety of Sunreavers because some two members of it (who weren't even in Dalaran when she did the Purge, no less, so all of that happened without punishing the actual "traitors") used Dalaran's portal network to help steal Divine Bell from Teldrassil. Which in turn prevented Blood Elves from rejoining Alliance, when they had talks with Varian.

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When will the Forsaken just gas the Alliance and Horde and get it over with?

>>49983352
hey dumbass, interring populations of suspects during war is a real thing that has happened in the world. The Blood elves were just that. They broke dalaran neutrality in the conflict after Jaina specifically asked to stay out of the faction war. The 5.1 questline shows that varian initially wanted jaina to make dalaran choose sides. She chooses to remain neutral UNTIL the horde abuses dalaran neutrality and uses it to steal the divine bell from darnassus, which is when she arrests blood elves and detains them.

The varian bullshit is literally something blizzard comes up with to kick the alliance in the nuts after 5.1 makes the alliance badass.
>oh you took control of a magical floating city filled with powerful mages and made it a part of the alliance?
>well too bad this unknown deal that you had no idea in the background was happening which would have given you the magical city AND an entire major power back.
>King's honor friend :^)

>>49983486
you mean the Knights of the Ebon Blade right?
they do own Putress' soul now

>>49983553
>EB
>Arthas cucks
Pfft. Go back to Wrath. The Forsaken were the original emo undead of WoW. Go jerk off to Koltira and Thassarian more.

>>49983592
Scourge > emo wannabes desu.

>>49983626
Scourge = btfo

>>49983493

Oh come now, you understand the philosophy behind post-Cata Warcraft right?

The Horde always wins, but the Alliance is always right. In order to make sure that nobody is ever happy

You see, the issue here is that with Jaina kicking the sunreavers out, there was a worrying moment there where it looked like Jaina was being unreasonable, thereby making the sunreavers right and Jaina wrong, in other words, the Horde right and the Alliance wrong

So they made some bullshit up about traitors in order to give her justification, thereby keeping the Alliance right, but it also cost the Alliance more than the Horde, so the Horde still won, status quo maintained. Everybody loses as always.

>>49983626
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1h03p7K0HM

>>49983592
I for one prefer emo forsaken over asshole forsaken, and asshole DKs over emo DKs

>>49983651

This. They even managed to make Siege of Orgrimmar to be as unstatisfying as possible for everyone involved. The war crimes book, garrosh escaping and ushering in orclords of orcnor were just next level obnoxious outgrowths of it. Its like someone decided to shitpost in story form. I remember walking around in my room in rage about the fucking book. "hurr we cant kill off garrosh cause he cant grow as a person if he dies!"

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>>49983626
>EB
>calling anyone emo

>>49983737
>finally corner garrosh
>thrall proceeds to killsteal
>he had to go and cheat while doing

>get to gul'dan
>illidan "i luv magic" dindu proceeds to killsteal him

What is with Blizzard and being afraid to let players to actually kill people?

Regarding the orcs and their characterization issues: isn't it possible that is only the Frostwolfs and a few minor groups amongst the other clans that really adhere to the "spiritual people" part and that the rest are just warmongers? Would explain a lot of things.

>>49983651
>>49983651
How was the alliance wrong in any way?
The horde abused a neutral host and dragged dalaran into the war.
Dalaran was neutral and when the horde broke neutrality it joined the war against it.
Jaina did the the only reasonable thing to do.

>>49984450

WoD shown us that the whole spiel about muh honorable shamanistic tribes getting corrupted by demons was pure bullshit.

>>49984926

Its even worse than that because the forsaken are at war with dalaran and constantly trying to eridacate their remnants. The Kirin Tor was even willing to overlook that and they still got stabbed in the back.

>>49985013
To be honest Draenei had it coming.
>orcs get their asses kicked by everyone while you live safe in your cities
>do nothing
>orcs start to militarize and unify with clear goal of wiping draenor clean of anyone who could oppose them
>do nothing
>orcs get a superweapon in the form of demon blood/advanced tech
>wonder why they're hellbent on killing everyone and why did you miss all the signs of them going bad

>>49985101

Yes. Especially how they know they are on the run from the Legion from millennia and any sign of demonic presence should be taken extremely seriously. Also if they have been any serious about the whole "Army of the Light" thing they should have had a large standing army and a militarized society ready to fight the Horde in the moment they started their bullshit. They had magic, they had their weird crystal tech, they had fanatics, they had the best healers in the universe, they had a fucking prophet who can see the future. How the did they manage lose this?

>>49983802
I'm fine with Thrall being the one to kill Garrosh, he was correcting his mistake.

Illidan killing Gul'dan does not serve any purpose other than to show how awesomesauce he is, which is a bit insulting.

>>49985173
By virtue of the Orcs already having canonically won at the point where that lore was written.

>>49982611

>Except garrosh SHOULD have got development because he was around in every expansion pack for almost the entire game, being warchief, groms son and shit.

Garrosh had an incoherent characterization and did whatever he had to do that would force conflict. And he still wasn't noticeably worse than Sylvanas despite being the scapegoat for the Horde.

> Garithos was just a random throwaway strawman

He was there to make the Blood Elves hostile to the Alliance for future Warcraft.

>>49983651

>Have a faction system that prevents either faction from actually winning decisively
>shoehorn a faction war since you have a grudge against WC3
>end the faction war in an embarassingly obvious way to keeps the Horde around even after all the antics it pulled and keep Garrosh around to force him as a recurring foe

>>49985394
>He was there to make the Blood Elves hostile to the Alliance for future Warcraft.
Honestly, I think it was more so Illidan's forces would consist of more than just naga. Especially since they considered using high elves as an Alliance race in vanilla anyway.

>>49985173
>>49985313

Reminder that WoD shows the Draenei holding their own against the Iron Horde even while traitors work against them. This makes the Main Orcs steamrolling the Main Draenei even more silly.

You can go on about retcons, but they seriously should have reworked the whole Orc VS Drenei War to fit better with the direction they took the Blue Eredar.

>>49985493

> Honestly, I think it was more so Illidan's forces would consist of more than just naga.

That doesn't need Garithos trying to kill all elves. TFT could have had Kael'thas hanging out in Dalaran until he meets Vashj, she wins his trust, they flee to Outland away from the Scourge, save Illidan, team up.

Now, making the BEs hostile to the Alliance? That's where Garithos comes in.

> Especially since they considered using high elves as an Alliance race in vanilla anyway.

Really?

>>49985238
>I'm fine with Thrall being the one to kill Garrosh, he was correcting his mistake.

No, he wasn't correcting his mistake.

In the cinematic, Thrall dodges responsibility like a brewmaster monk on meth in RFC, and then proceeds to cheat on a Mak'gora to kill the leader of the AU Warsong Army, Garrosh Hellscream, that ended up there through his own fault and not because of Thrall's meddling at all, no siree bob!

>>49985813
>You can go on about retcons, but they seriously should have reworked the whole Orc VS Drenei War to fit better with the direction they took the Blue Eredar.
Could have played the Draenei and Ogre Empire off each other, with the two engaging each other in a long and bloody war only for the demon-boosted Orcs to come in and mop up the stragglers?

>>49985813
>That doesn't need Garithos trying to kill all elves. TFT could have had Kael'thas hanging out in Dalaran until he meets Vashj, she wins his trust, they flee to Outland away from the Scourge, save Illidan, team up.
The problem with that is that Kael would have no reason to trust Vashj without Garithos there being unreasonable. It would also mean abandoning his duty, and as much as Garithosposters whine about Kael, he only ever disobeyed one order; accepting the aid of the naga when the alternative was certain defeat and the loss of Dalaran.

Given more competent leadership, the Scourge being weakened from Ner'zhul losing control, the Forsaken splitting off, and a large chunk of the undead having been lost in Kalimdor already, it's quite possible that Kael wouldn't have been put in that position at all. Hell, with the elves still around, who knows if Sylvanas would have been as eager to betray the Alliance?

I can't find a definitive source for the high elf thing, though, sorry.

>>49951995
I don't know anon, DK's have some ultra OP artifacts (especially seeing as frostmourne is the weakest of the 3)

>>49988733
How many of the DK artifacts have literally shattered a planet? How many DK artifacts have left a 10,000 year old scar on Azeroth? How many DK artifacts are skulls who follow you around and banter with you?

>>49985854
>that ended up there through his own fault and not because of Thrall's meddling at all, no siree bob!
You know, Thrall definitely didn't handle the Garrosh situation perfectly, but he didn't actually have a single thing to do with the Horde or Garrosh after the beginning of Cataclysm. At the time Garrosh wasn't in a bad spot at all, even if he wasn't on the best of terms with Baine or Vol'jin. Everything he did after that, including pissing off every single person on Azeroth, is his own damn responsibility.

>>49988783
Apocalypse and Maw of the damned have both single handedly wiped out multiple worlds

>>49988812
I'm just saying that, whether he likes it or not, Thrall DID have some responsibility over Garrosh's ultimate fate, and even that little was swept under the rug for the sake of keeping Green Jesus' slate as clean as possible.

>>49988964
Honestly all they had to do is have Thrall say, "Yes." when Garrosh accused him of creating a monster instead of denying it.

I mean YES no one forced Garrosh to do the shit he did but Thrall did put Garrosh in a position the guy outright said he wasn't ready for. I don't give a fuck about cheating at ork kombat, they cheat constantly anyway, but Thrall accepting his part of what happened would've been a better story.

>>49988783
all 3 DK artifacts are incredibly powerful Legion weapons
Apocalypse has been used by so many dreadlords that it now causes anyone who wields it to eventually become a spy for the Legion
the Maw of the Damned is made of and by Kil'jaeden's personal smith
and the Blades of the Fallen Prince still have Ner'zhul's soul trapped inside and are presumably capable of restarting the LK's collection

they aren't as strong as the Scepter of Sargeras, but they're definitely on the same tier as Ulthalesh or Thal'kiel

>>49990216
Ulthalesh was made by Sargeras himself and has only gotten more powerful since then.

>>49990469
I don't have much of the warlock lore done, but it doesn't seem Ulthalesh is as strong as the Scepter though. Sure it's strong as fuck, but Scepter is pretty much on a tier all it's own

Ulthalesh was made by Sargeras. The Scepter of Sargeras was made by Sargeras in a fit of lustful rage while aided by the 100 most powerful demons in the universe

>>49990580
Yeah, Scepter is in a tier of its own.
It's mentioned that Sargeras is afraid of Ulthalesh because its capacity for growth is unlimited. And Ulthalesh, the demon inside the scythe, is very patient and draws power from anything that gets near the scythe. Especially the users. Growing stronger and stronger until he can break out and once that happens, there's no telling what his power will be.

>>49990632
as far as I've seen it pretty much goes

>literally destroys planets tier
Scepter of Sargeras

>figuratively destroys planets tier
Apocalypse
Maw of the Damned
Ulthalesh
Aldrachi Warblades
the subtlety rogue daggers

>never used at full potential but probably in the above tier tier
Blades of the Fallen Prince
Thal'kiel
Ashbringer

>titan toys tier
Truthguard
the Silver Hand
Titanstrike
Valarjar Warblades
Scale of Neltharion

>not really that good but the guy who first used it is cool so we pretend it is tier
Doomhammer
Strom'kar
Thas'dorah
Felo'melorn
Twinblades of the Deciever
Talonclaw
the Kingslayers

>>49990896
>Ashbringer
Should be lower. It is bloody effective against demons and undead, sure, but not that powerful against anything else.

>Felo'melorn
Should probably be in a tier by itself, between Titan toys and Unfulfilled Potential. This is a weapon with potential for infinite power growth as long as it can be reforged.

>>49990896
Honestly I like the weaker artifact weapons, the weaker ones come with a suggestion of "You don't actually need this to be awesome, but having it will make everyone recognize that you are awesome, so use it anyway"

>>49985854
Thrall cheating Makgora is just a meme. The Makgora don't always need naked people. On wrath garrosh and Thrall fight and both used armor, Thrall used magic there too. blizzard don't even had a fuck for that.

You don't get the animation at all, the thing there is that both are right... Thrall is indeed responsible but Garrosh was a cry baby with the bullshit "you let me on a job full of problems surrounded by people that hate me"

Yeah..that is what a leader do.. you know.... The spot that Garrosh wanted when he nearly killed Thrall for that on wrath

>>49990896
Where do the windwalker monk weapons fit in?

>>49992638
It's a shame because Garrosh could have been a great general if he'd been given more time to mature. The smart move would have been to appoint Vol'Jin as Warchief from the start so he had the authority to reel in Garrosh when necessary.

Garrosh could have been the Greymane to Vol'Jins Varian.

>>49987611

> The problem with that is that Kael would have no reason to trust Vashj without Garithos there being unreasonable.

Vashj helps Kael in battle against the Scourge twice. I don’t see what stops her from doing that without Garithos.

>It would also mean abandoning his duty, and as much as Garithosposters whine about Kael, he only ever disobeyed one order; accepting the aid of the naga when the alternative was certain defeat and the loss of Dalaran.

What duty? It was established in RoC that Quel'thalas quit the Alliance. Garithos shouldn't have any authority over Kael anyway since he's King of QT and a Kirin Tor.

>Given more competent leadership, the Scourge being weakened from Ner'zhul losing control, the Forsaken splitting off, and a large chunk of the undead having been lost in Kalimdor already, it's quite possible that Kael wouldn't have been put in that position at all.

Maybe.

>Hell, with the elves still around, who knows if Sylvanas would have been as eager to betray the Alliance?

The Alliance wouldn't dig the Forsaken.

>>49994815
But then who would be the Alliance's Sylvanas?

I mean, unless Tyrande starts deploying some kind of Anti-Plague everywhere that makes everything trees, I don't see how that's possible.

>>49994845

Cause Garithos was still a grand marshal and it was the remnants of the alliance military fighting. Kael could have just fucked off if he doesnt like following orders.

>The Alliance wouldn't dig the Forsaken.

That we may never know. Maybe they would have accepted sentient undead as they accepted death knights. Too bad the forsaken started off attacking literally every human kingdom and settlement in reach.

>>49994884
Alliance doesn't need a Sylvanas. One Sylvanas is enough. Her whole job seems to be screwing over both sides every time they try to work together.

Of course Blizz seems dead set on making Jaina into blue Sylvanas.

>>49994884
She basically did that in Warcraft 3.

The entire orc campaign was either fight humans or Fight back Night elves because you were cutting down their threes.

>>49995209
Now that I think about it. Were there any missions in the WC3 orc campaign where you fought undead?

>>49994815
Orcs would never accept a Troll warchief at that point. They were already pandering for Garrosh to challenge Thrall when he was not ever thinking to leave the post.

At that point Voljin was not mature either, he is a son of a great leader but never did anything beyond that point. He was chosen as Warchief on MOP after he did a lot of things.

He conquered Echo Isles without Garrosh help (finnaly), he stick with the Horde despite the fact that Garrosh wanted him dead while he could just switch to the Zandalari side, he lead a campaign against the Trolls at north that I dindt even remember the name.... And when he was betrayed he could just run away and lick his wounds, he could stick with the Zandalari probably. Darkspear are intelligent and could help a lot the empire on intelligence warfare, I mean... Everyone has guns, cannons and airships... how long the Zandalari would stay as a threat on the militar level?.... but instead he formed a resistence to fight against garrosh insane war machine and even as underdog he managed to do some damage.

Voljin was elected as a warchief because he was the only one that believed on the Horde after Garrosh break it apart. Sylvanas, Lorthemar and Galawix never care... Baine was mopping on Thunder Bluff anyway, he was not mature either to step as a true leader for all.

Also, it was a great political move from Trall, a Troll warchief at that point would teach a bit of humilty to every Horde member that noticed Garrosh was too far. They need to understand that unity is more important than Orc pride, It also clockblocked Varian to blame all Orcs errors on a new/old orc warchief. After all.... the new warchief fought the Orcs too.

It is ironic but Thrall is a good politican. On the Battle of Undercity he could blame Sylvanas for everything... Instead he treated her like a Queen, got the city back and won a lot of sympathy from her people. He actually know how to lead a bunch of monster and misfits.

>>49995246
No.

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>>49940499
>>49940339
This is a thing already. It got a good number of books, and two editions. The first came out in 2003, and the second in 2005.

The 2nd edition warcraft monster manual is pretty good for use in other d20 games.

>>49984450
Well, Shadowmoon was a spiritual Clan, but hey were put in a "join and bring something new to the table (powerful Shamans and stargazing is nothing new, we have Dark Shamans now) or have your entire Clan wiped out", so Ner'zhul had to use Dark Star, which was forbidden for generations.

How many of the Clans have joined because they have no other choice? I do not know.

Bleeding Hollow, Blackrock, and Thunderlord Clans were all living in Deathworld conditions, which made them more prone to being warlike, but they still had it balanced with Spiritual/Elemental/Hunting priorities.

Warsong and Shattered Hand were full on warfare, due to Ogres (which likely in original universe got defeated in rebellion of Kargath + retaliatory campaign of Grom and likely Blackhand; and likely their final Emperor was not born in MU).

Laughing Skull was a wild card, while Bonechewers and Twilight Hammer (which was renamed into that by Cho'Gall when he took over the Clan) were psychos that were on Gul'dan's side all the time.


Make of that what you want.

>>49985101
On top of that, their attempts at diplomacy usually ends up insulting the other party.
>Oshu'gun was actually our dimensional ship that got crash landed here.
>The only reason spirits of your Ancestors are there in such number is because they are drawn there by the presence of Darkened Naaru, which is kinda Godlike being of Light, except not right now, due to damage it got.
And then Velen is surprised that his words angered the Orcs.
And he didn't learned anything from that, given that he were telling priestesses of Elune that Elune is most likely a Naaru.

>>49985813
Fel Magic is highly effective against the users of Arcane.
In Rise of the Horde, Draenei had advantage in magic while Orcs still had Shamans, but once Warlocks comes into play, Orcs started to get upper hand.
And the Kool Aid was drank only before the attack on Shattrath, which was the final battle.

>>49988812
Hell, in Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm, Thrall and Garrosh have conversation when Garrosh says he's not really ready, and Thrall tells him to simply listen to advice of Cairne, Vol'jin, and Eitrigg. And the first thing Garrosh does is to push them aside, when peace talks gets attacked by Twilight Hammer that implies Garrosh had part in it and Cairne bitchslaps him, he demands Mak'gora, but not to first blood but to the death.

And do mind that when Garrosh was made Warchief, Horde was in a pretty good situation, so he didn't had to chimp out like that.

>>49995830
>And he didn't learned anything from that, given that he were telling priestesses of Elune that Elune is most likely a Naaru.
I feel like that was one of those days when Kosak couldn't decide between being a dick to the night elves or the draenei, so he just did both.

>Warriors are leading the Titanic forces
>Shamans are leading the Elementals
>Druids are leading the Ancients
>Death Knights are leading the Scourge
>Warlocks are stealing Sargeras' own demons right from under his nose
>even Paladins, Hunters, and Rogues have the best of their class' best, Hunters even get an exclusive flight path

>somehow, everyone thought to recruit Holy Dreadlords, Elemental Lords, Titanic Watchers, and the Eredar Twins before getting any of Azeroth's neutral sapient races on board

Seriously, how has Alexstrasza not pledged the entire Red Dragonflight to the cause? Actually, how is she not the Queen of all Dragons, considering she's the highest-ranked surviving Dragon and one of only two original Aspects left?

Even the Murlocs know how to fight for their own homes - so why not throw them against the Legion as cannon fodder, or to match Imps with something about their level?

Centaur, Taunka, Yaungol, Hozen, Jinyu, Quilboar - heck, why not send some Draenei and Mag'har to Alt-Draenor to let everyone there know we need their help ASAP? Get the Arakkoa too, any they'll spare. Even the Ogres!

Magnataurs, Kobolds, Yetis - and considering they're probably the most populous Trolls now, the Darkspear and Revantusk should get together and make the Zandalari an offer - bring all of the Troll tribes to the fight against the Legion, and maybe they get to keep enough body parts that their regeneration will leave stumps behind.

Even the armies of the Old Gods will lose if the Legion wins - we should have N'raqi, Mantid, and Qiraji helping us!

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>>49996311
Because this isn't about telling a cohesive or moving story, it's to give the players a power wank. Besides, neutral races aren't for heroics (no pun intended), they're for corrupting into dungeon fodder.

Which is a goddamn shame, 'cause I love it when minor and/or ambiguous characters pitch in to kick ass when everything is about to go bad.

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>>49996311

Sorry too busy making bank off of transmogs to fight the Void Lords.

new thread
>>49997098
>>49997098
>>49997098

>>49994897

Accepting the Death Knights is already a stretch.

>>49995272

Vol'jin is a Dindu like the rest of the Cata- MOP Horde who died a Bitch's death. He also ran crying to the Alliance in Orgrimmar and got whooped by a gate.

>>49995830

>You were mean to me so I'm chimpingout

>>49995838

>Pokemon

It's bad plotting. Blizzard does it.

>>49996311

>Dragonflights being helpful

They didn't bother to help with the Scourge and Legion back in WC3