Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

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First for the One True King of Azeroth.

>>49879145
Speaking of clothes, I incredibly envied Alexstrasza's transparent cloak back in WotLK.

I could add Genn's Legion greatcoat and Khadgar's WoD+ armored robes to the list. Sucks that Blizzard keeps incredible looking stuff like that to fixed, unique NPC models.

Of course, given that they STILL have clipping issues with the bland armor now...

What's up with orc surnames? Generally they don't use them, and if someone has one, it's a title or a nickname given for great deeds or notable stuff (Orgrim "the Backstabber" Doomhammer with his hammer and the way to take over the leadership of the Horde, Grommash Hellscream's incredible singing voice, even Fenris Wolfbrother make sense post-WoD retcon as he's the brother of Frostwolf chieftain)... but then you hit stuff like brothers Varok and Broxigar Saurfang (what's Saurfang anyway?) and Garrosh being called Hellscream despite not having a voice as loud and/or annoying as his father...

Why are nelfs so lewd ?

>>49879496
I guess that, once a family/clan gets a reputation/deed-based family, it is passed on until something better/catchier comes up. Basically, they're winging it.

>what's Saurfang anyway?
"Lizard fang" or something to that extent, I'd guess (dinosaur=terrible lizard). Why, you ask? Because reasons.

>>49879586
>reputation/deed-based family name*

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>>49879496
Orgrim Doomhammer inherited his surname from his father, who inherited it from HIS father, so on and so forth.

Grom also inherited his surname. His father was named Golmash "the Giantslayer" Hellscream. Garrosh, much like his own father did, also inherited his surname.

I assume Saurfang is supposed to mean raptor fang or something, since there are raptors native to Gorgrond (home of the Blackrock Clan) and they are dinoSAURS. I don't think Blizzard put even that much thought into it, though. I think they just thought it sounded cool.

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>>49879345

Bolvar was a literal nobody with no character development (hint: DnD character self insert) that is only liked now because he became the forced Lich King.

Prove me wrong.

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What did the Scourge need gold for?

>>49879614

I have yet to see anything showing we needed to have DER MUSS AWAAS BEE OOO LEECH KEEEEN instead of just having the Scourge break apart.

>>49879631
Mercenaries + golbins

>>49879631
It is a less-known fact that undead have really good union that make sure they'll get paid what they deserve

Alternatively, game mechanics. Why don't lumber mills need wood to build, despite the model clearly having wooden parts?

>>49879631

print and shipping of cult of the damned pamphlets, same with wood.

>>49879631
Alchemical purposes.

>>49879631

Do you not see all that bling on the liches? Bitches love bling.

>>49879666
nice try Mal'ganis

>>49879631
denying it to the enemy
also it probably uses the AoE excuse of "gold is actually every metal, we just don't want to model them all"

>>49879614
>Regent of Stormwind for a good chunk of Vanilla while Varian was away
>powerful Paladin in his own right
>"literal nobody"

>>49879666
The whole point was that they were more dangerous without someone controlling them, because they'd just go rampant wherever they were and couldn't be called back to Northrend or kept in place, so everyone would be busy fighting more Scourge invasions instead of whatever else they needed to do. And that, especially with Deathwing waking up not long after, would have been a bad time.

Illidindu nuffin man.

>>49880929

>Scorge command clobbered yet Scourge still a biggest threat
>Undead like Kel'thuzad can operate without the LK's orders
>The Forsaken broke free without going on a rampage ASAP
>DER MUS AWEES BEE UHHH LEECH KEEN totally top plot

Stop defending asspulls.

>>49881283
I think somebody at Blizzard HQ had a shower thought "Jailor of the Dead" and thought it was so fucking metal it needed to be in the game.

Quite frankly it sounds amazing and it definitely deserves to be part of the game, just not with the Lich King and the idea that a controlled Scourge is somehow less of a threat.

>scourge with no control=retarded zambies zerg rushing the nearest living things and generally being a nuisance because they can also be taken control of by shitty necromancers
>scourge with one leader with definite control of them prevents this from happening
>this is somehow bad
whats with the autism do people just not like the character or is it the concept that triggers them?

>>49881553

>Ignoring the Forsaken

>>49881553
The Scourge are like Daleks. If they're different then they're inexplicably more dangerous than before.

Keep in mind an army without a central leader is easier to dismantle as its not acting in concert with other units. An army of a million skeletons not working together shouldn't be a threat. Just look at any battleground where the team refuses to work together.

>>49881553
Nuisance is preferable to major threat.

While a fractured scourge would definitely be more active, the active forces are generally smaller and have less logistics. There's also a big chance that the power vacuum of an absent Lich King would lead to infighting among the necromancers to factor in.

To have a new Lich King only makes sense as long as that Lich King actually holds back the undead through his will.

As it stands now, Bollywood Four Dragons is slipping, and we're bound for another Scourge offensive. It would have been better to shatter the Crown of Domination, then watch as the undead Scourge eats itself either due to undeas going feral and ripping eachother up or Necromancers starting succession wars. Whatever is left to actually pursue a military campaign against the living will get the shit beaten out of them.

>>49881925

Yeah but then we couldnt get a remake of WotLK for the next patch. That is the pattern right?

>Cata = Vanilla remake
>MoP = Break
>WoD = BC remake
>Legion = Break
>Next Xpac = Wrath remake

>>49881968
>>Rise of the Lich Queen
>>Sylvanas finally gets what's coming to her

>>49881925
Propose his grasp is slipping
simply culling the undead as they come as he slowly loses controll is a fair bit better than opening the floodgates
and propose he eventually gets things under controll,then things are stable.
if you take out the leader then having a bunch of splinter factions and destabilizing the area is worse as we have seen with the middle east as a real world example.

>>49881979

It wouldnt surprise me. We kill bolly and there must always be a lich king!(queen)

Que Jaina and Slyvanas fighting for it.

>>49881979
>minor side quest near end of legion that deals with a small time necromancer and his shenanigans
>sent by a scourge agent to deal with it
>go and put a stop to him
>some of the undead manage to escape
>scattered notes around his lab reveal that he was a member of the Cult of the Damned in exile
>there is a list of people that he raised, by initial only
>among the list is one with the initials of A.M.

if Sylvanas can come back from super hell twice, then so can he.

>>49882227
Arthas deserves a redemption story, not that Coldsteel Illidan.

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I am sure know this was discussed many times before, yet I still want fresh answers for this question:
Why is there people who, unironically say that Garrosh did nothing wrong?

I always played Alliance so I'm naturally biased towards humans interests.
Said this, however, I can't really understand how most of his actions were defensible, like going full retard on Theramore because the roads (yeah, Jaina shouldn't have done that but what he did was quite literally overkill AND incited the war), going war-industrial on Ogrimmar instead of securing food sources just after Cataclysm, and plenty of other questionable desicions he taked from maybe even Northrend, I vaguely remember Saurfang telling to him "dude, calm down we're doing strategies not zerg rushes" Cataclysm to the end of Pandaria.

I DO know some context for what happened: like the false flagging of Twilight's Hammer in Ashenvale, the poisoned weapon in the Mak'gora (yet the duel was supposed to be a death duel, so it's kind of... dumb), Ogrimmar still being a backwards city in the middle of arid steppes after 15 years of living there so when the Cataclysm happened they were hit pretty hard, Vol'Jin ignoring him as advisor and doing some kind of uprising (?), and everyone, specially Thrall and him, knowing he was just not the best option for warchief and bitching him for that.
They even discussed this during his naming: Garrosh saying he was too warmongering for the new approach Thrall tried the last 15 years (which obviously didn't work).

This last point coincides with him going in the past to use the old, original orcish people from Draenor toward his interplanetary war-crusade against his "enemies". Yet, his enemies are the same beings he shares his new home with, the same enemies who stopped the end of the world five times together, up to Pandaria; the same enemies he KNEW would not start another war by attack him by surprise.

>>49881986
The middle east is exactly where our governments and corporations want it: Infighting, divided and thus unable to become any military threat on a geopolotical scale.

We in the west only have to fear the occasional terrorist subterfuge, tragic as it is for the victims.

We want the Scourge to be divided. In this case, we don't even have any moral objrctions because we're not ruining people's lives, we're eradicating an evil force.

>>49879631

All this child support and they call it a CULT?!

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>Prepare yourselves, the bells have tolled! Shelter your weak, your young and your old! Each of you shall pay the final sum. Cry for mercy, the reckoning has come! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

>>49882373
My understanding is that there was a point in which his actions made sense from his point of view, but then the writers fucked him up and made him "more power" or some shit.

>>49883193
They'll bring him back in a few expansion packs and make up a story about him doing all that shit to prepare the world for the coming of the Void Lords or some stupid shit like Illidan.

>>49882307

But he was a bad egg from the start. In WC3 anyway. Ignoring retcons.

>>49881986
Think of the scourge as a Tyranid hive fleet. Even fractured there's enough high-tier undead and necromancers to tear off chunks of the main force and make little personal armies that roam around, getting into smaller battles and sustaining or growing their numbers until you either have a real problem, or a feral army. Neither of witch is great

I'd also like to know just what is going on with Valen and the draenei, for years it's bothered me that the drae continue to bleed away, govern themselves and typically die by degrees while the almighty prophet does precious little. From one of the short stories we learn he is more concerned with other shit.

Where are the draenei who, after thousands of years running, surviving, running again and dying, douby Valen's wisdom. wod had a faction of them turning to the legion rather then face death by orc and now that the legion proper has arrived. Where are the draenei asking their prophet

"so hows that plan we're "surviving" for coming along?"

>>49879614
No one cared who I was until I put on the Helm

>>49883297
No he wasn't, that was the entire point of the Reign of Chaos Human campaign

>>49883193

First he was a mopey asshole hated by everyone in his village. Then we showed him his das was a cool guy and eh doesnt afraid of anything and he chimped out hard. The character-establishing moment I remember the most is he and Saurfang interacting in Warsong Hold in WotLK. Their literally only port gets taken, they have no supplies and Saurfang asks him how is he going to go forward without heavy guns, armor and ammunition but he is just like WAAAAAAH I WANNNA WAR NOW and stops the figurines on their war map. In a way this would be a brilliant foreshadowing of the Iron Horde but I dont think blizzard was smart enough to do that.

>>49883297

Its only the retcons cause neo-blizz writers just have a supreme hatred for everything subtle and nuanced. It was really interesting to to see how a golden boy prince and paladin who by all means is a great man and should have been a hero gets systematically broken down and becoming the thing he tried to stop instead of the hero. Now he is just an evil meanie poopy pants from the start for absolutely no reason and Ner'zhul also got written out to appeal to retards who never played WC3.

>>49883581

>ROC manual says Ner'zhul looked for dark souls and searched for a host that was torn between Light and Dark.
>Burned down fleet and blamed Mercs for it

And in TFT, Arthas kept serving Ner'zhul even after he was weakened.

>>49883428
Bud, there are worse things we could use for that shit.

>>49883665
The interaction between Saurfang and Garrosh was one of the best parts of playing Horde in WotLK. Especially the quests where you see that Saurfang is secretly disobeying orders in order to keep the Horde forces from getting their shit stomped.

>>49883737
>And in TFT, Arthas kept serving Ner'zhul even after he was weakened.
because that was all he had left.

>>49883737

After you killed your father, killed your mentor, slaugthered thousands,destroyed your kingdom and became a pallid undeath monster there just isnt much else to do.

>>49882373
>the poisoned weapon in the Mak'gora (yet the duel was supposed to be a death duel, so it's kind of... dumb)
Garrosh would have his ass handed to Cairne.

>>49883665
>First he was a mopey asshole hated by everyone in his village.
I do not think he was hated, but Jorin Deadeye did considered him impotent.
>We were stuck with inferior Son of Hellscream, when we could get superior Son of Killrogg.
I want Jorin back to relevance.

>>49883665
How was Arthas retconned to seem evil from the start?

>>49885910

He became undead because he missed his stupid horse too much. Yes.

>>49885910

The Arthas book shifted how his breakup with Jaina went. At first, they brokeup from both of them figuring that staying as boyfriend and girlfriend would get in the way of their studying for their careers. The book had it that Jaina starts talking about their future and how it has kids, Arthas freaks out at this and breaksup with her over it. The book has a habit of showing Arthas as being a bastard to Jaina, going beyond scuffles over how they do what they do.

>>49885957
Are you talking about Rise of the Lich King? Because I felt like Arthas was portrayed as a flawed "average guy" with quite a few insecurities, but far from evil. In fact, even as a death knight, he was written as being internally conflicted over his actions. Like when he told Tichondrius that he felt no remorse or shame, the book described his heart as whispering "liar," and before killing Uther, he felt he'd been wrong to forsake the Light.

If anything, Golden went out of her way to paint Arthas in a sympathetic light. Inside he knew he was going down a terrible path, but he suppressed the doubt because he believed he was in too deep to turn around.

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So how poorly-adjusted would an NPC kid of two PC's be, assuming "adventurers" or "champions" act like average WoW players and there's "canonically" at least one for each class?

Actually, what would being an adventurer's kid be like at all on ye olde Azeroth?

>>49879666
it was asspulled so warriors and DKs wouldn't be butthurt that the Helm of Domination and Plate of the Damned weren't drops

>>49886332

It was such a completely unneeded and uncharacteristic retcon. Like the writer actually had a chip on her shoulder about it so he needed the evil undead traitor also be a muhsoggykneesteec too. What was the fucking point? That was the entire point of Jaina and Arthas in WC3, they obviously liked eachother but couldnt be together, their emotional connection gave weight when Jaina finally turned her back on Arthas and showed us how much of a breaking point Stratholme was.

>he was written as being internally conflicted over his actions. Like when he told Tichondrius that he felt no remorse or shame, the book described his heart as whispering "liar," and before killing Uther, he felt he'd been wrong to forsake the Light.

Yet another fucking pointless, unneeded, stupid retcon.

>>49886582

> If anything, Golden went out of her way to paint Arthas in a sympathetic light.

And that's trash. WC3 showed that Arthas was a bad man even without Frostmourne's curse.

>>49883011
>It is over, your search is done. Let fate choose now, the righteous one.

>>49886619

He was more brash and naive than bad. Trying to live up both to being a king and a paladin war hero then cracked under the pressure. Turning DK Arthas morally ambigous was another fuckup because the moment when he switched sides was meant to be catharctic. He finally gave in, couldnt stop the Scourge despite his march to frozen hell and hard decisions. He finally started enjoying the ride.

>>49886619
He didn't really go off the deep end until the last couple missions of the human campaign when he got to Northrend. Strathholme was a necessary evil. Though he could have explained himself better.

>>49886332
Guess that a good man turned bad by the circumstances that he was forced experience is too complex for modern Blizzard to write. Hardly surprising given that how they made Illidan a complete dindu instead of just an extremely unreliable sort-of-ally that is only tolerated because he has valuable knowledge (and is more than likely to stab you in the back if an opportunity to do so represents itself).

>>49886596
>mom, dad, why are you going to goldshire again?
>mom, why no other girl in my class have a pee pee?
>dad, why you smell like poop and wet dog?

>>49886596
If we're talking WoW PCs then their kids would basically be the equivalent of nobility. By the time of Legion WoW PCs are legendary heroes and military commanders for their respective faction. Any children they have would likely be expected to follow in their parents footsteps.

>>49886641
>>49886644

I was talking about TFT's Undead Campaign where the curse of Frostmourne wears off as Ner'zhul gets weaker.

>>49886650
>Dad all this Heirloom gear is uncomfortable to wear to school. And I broke four of Tommy's ribs during dodgeball yesterday due to the enchantments you put on it.

>>49886607
I agree that his constant self-doubts as a DK were overdone in the novel. I was just wondering why people think he was retconned to be evil when it struck me as the opposite.

I don't think Arthas was misogynistic or cold toward Jaina at all. They hugged each other after they broke up, and he said he'd want to try again in the future. He was obviously in love with her, just a bit immature.

>>49886672
What other choices did he have? It was basically continue on the path he was on, or get ganked by Sylvanas.

>>49886719
In the retrospective turning Sylvanas from a banshee into a (un)living waifu doll wasn't the smartest idea.

>>49886734
She never stopped being a Banshee, she's just using her possession ability on her own corpse.

>>49886719

And after escaping from Sylvanas?

>>49886806

You're undead, your name is synonymous with betrayal, you kill King Terenas, your father, you killed Uther, the greatest paladin ever lived, you killed Muradin, brother of the dwarven king, you killed the Sylvanas, the elves commander in chief,killed Antonidas the ruler of Dalaran, completely ruined three kingdoms personally and summoned the Legion to the world with your BFF

Where the fuck you go from here? You are damned.

>>49886865
Make a list of royalty that I'ven't yet killed.

>>49886750
I'll be honest, I always thought her becoming a banshee in RoC then switching to a colour swapped ranger model in tFT was just a retroactive design choice to represent her ingame. She was always a spoopy elf-ranger in-lore to me.

>>49886865

Arthas was down with the Scourge. He digged his job so its not like he was sad over it. It was like the Scourge was his home.

>>49886934

Plus he was decked out in a regalia of evil artifacts and a soulstealing sword. It's not like he could have done anything except go into supervillain business.

>>49886910

This. Same thing with his vanilla-BC era night elf model before it got upgraded into a semen demon

>>49886934
I think initially it was some form of psychic suggestion that kept him in line, but he definitely grew more comfortable by the time he could claim Lordaeron's throne because he was backed by Ner'zhul giving him necromantic superpowers as a Death Knight. When he felt that fade away in tFT, he knew he had to do something or else people would take his throne away.

And then he got fused with the source of his power and he upped his goals a bit.

>>49886957
>Sylvanas' canines
I want to blow my load up all over that. I think she could possess me just by letting me occasionally stick my dick in her.

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>>49886957

Vanilla Sylvanas best Sylvanas

>>49883386
How about the fact that Velen, despite supposedly being the wisest being we know of, lost his fucking mind and tried to kill the player when we have to put down his evil son, who he hadn't seen in so long he FORGOT HE EXISTED.

Given that WoD gives implications that Titans are responsible for making Draenor the way it is, is Draenor equivalent of Australia?
>Breakers wants to make the world a wasteland similar to Frostfire Ridge
>Primals wants to make everything into plant-life, often by infecting fauna
>Fungi are aggressive life-forms that infects everything else, spread through overgrowth, and are almost everywhere where is water
The only relatively nice beings on Draenor are Elemental Furies, and Titans do not seem to be most fond of them in general.

>>49887701
Blizz cant into writing ancient characters despite half of their characters are thousands of years old. Just look at Tyrande, her age makes her more obsessed with Malf and thats about it.

>>49887701
Being wise doesn't mean that he can't go senile. plus the kid was probably from a one night stand anyway.

>>49887793
the Titans turn planets without a worldsoul into death worlds out of petty spite

>>49887849
Bet that it is their version of fun drinking game
>hey guys, we found this soulless planet
>what should we do with it
>i know, lets turn it into a fucking death world that will traumatize everliving fuck out of its inhabitats and turn them into genocidal monsters
>great idea

>>49886882
Arthas the Assassin, or the Usurper? Either way, mite b cool

>>49887878
>hahaha Aman'thul check it out, I glued dicks to the foreheads of everyone on this planet
>damn it Norgannon, you beat me to it

>>49887373
Whenever I see oldvanas I remember that weapon skills were a thing back then and you had to travel to different capitals to learn them. I don't know why she does that to me.

>wanted to learn polearms on my pala
>some troll told me that you could learn it in darnassus if you're not lvl 20
>he also told me that the fastes way would be the route sw->bb->ratchet->auberdine->darnassus

I don't miss being 9 at all

>>49882373
>Why is there people who, unironically say that Garrosh did nothing wrong?

Because he didn't do anything wrong.
Essentially he didn't have the Orcish equivalent of white guilt and so wasn't a pussy.

>>49887980
I'm willing to bet that someone took it way too far and turned everyone on a planet into a bunch of walking dicks with a forehead.

>>49888094

This retarded meme needs to die already. He was horrible at everything, evern warmongering. He managed to turn even the fucking GOBLINS aganist himself. You know, the kind of guys who would sell their mother and kick puppies as long they are getting paid. He turned the guys who had a blood debt to the horde and would serve it to the death aganist it. He gave away huge gains just because he wanted to charge in like a chimp. He had allies defecting from him left and right just as he wanted to start a total war. He failed at everything he set out to accomplish and his mere presence tainted everything he touched.

Of course, Thrall was just as retarded and badly written but that doesnt excuse Garrosh's chimping out.

>>49888144
yeah, Imma assume that was sargeras.

>>49882373
>I am sure know this was discussed many times before, yet I still want fresh answers for this question:
>Why is there people who, unironically say that Garrosh did nothing wrong?

For the same reason people say shit like Garithos dindu nuffin, Daelin dindu nuffin, etc.

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>>49888280
In conclusion: We have to lynch kosak

>>49888280
>He was horrible at everything, evern warmongering.

No he wasn't.
People turned on him through no fault of his own. The narrative made him a bad guy, even though he did nothing to deserve it.

>>49888332

What narrative? When he stomps around like an angry retard about Saurfang reminding him armies need supplies? When he almost got his ass kicked by Varian on a diplomatic meeting just because he chimped out? When he suddenly decided to be exactly like his father despite everyone urging him not so?

These were all before he even became a warchief.

>>49888367
>When he almost got his ass kicked by Varian on a diplomatic meeting just because he chimped out?
>implying varian could kick garry's ass without his mary sue wolf demigod buffs

>>49888316
Wait no not yet.
He still has to write how Sylvanas and Jaina fugg
Then write how Nova has to become a Spectre by taking Tosh's BBC Indoctrinator

>>49888367
>What narrative?

The narrative where he's a bad guy.
He was simply pro horde, then fan backlash made him evil.

>When he stomps around like an angry retard about Saurfang reminding him armies need supplies?

This was a very inexperienced Garrosh.

>When he almost got his ass kicked by Varian on a diplomatic meeting just because he chimped out?

This was mutual, setting up the new conflict between Alliance and Horde.

>When he suddenly decided to be exactly like his father despite everyone urging him not so?

Nah, Grom is a hero worshipped by the Horde and Garrosh refused to repeat his mistake, even going back in time to try and correct it.

All Garrosh did "wrong" was to be a pro horde Orc.

>>49881452
Absolutely. If they had a little think and went a little bit further with the idea, and had something like Bolvar recalling the Undead to ICC or something then that'd be awesome. As it is it just defaults to "build army, don't use army".

>>49888431

>reigning "1v1 me fgt" arena champion wolf god bullshit something

vs

>some orc who never really fought anything before


I dont even know when the whole "garrosh is a great warrior" thing started, early cata?

>>49888431
It was Garrosh before Gorehowl, so he wasn't that great either. To be frank, he was only truly learning how to fight and how to lead armies, despite being nominal Chieftain of Mag'har.
>Dranosh Saurfang was effectively leading Mag'har in Nagrand
>Mag'har in Hellfire Penninsula had commanders that acted quite independently
>Jorin Deadeye was practically handling entire administration that was not matters of Shamanism
And somehow Garrosh was hailed as a hero of War in Northrend, despite never leading forces in person.

>>49888440

>attacks enemy leader because ORC MAD

>mutual

> refused to repeat his mistake, even going back in time to try and correct it.

More like travels back just to be able to commit the same mistake twice.

>>49887701
IIRC, Velen didn't forget he existed, just figured his son was a casualty of the war.

>>49888440
>Nah, Grom is a hero worshipped by the Horde and Garrosh refused to repeat his mistake, even going back in time to try and correct it.
>Grommash's only mistake is drinking Blood of Mannoroth
>Twice, because he couldn't resist smell of Mountain Dew Red, despite his Shaman telling him it smells of Fel, and because he had to pick a fight against a Demigod
>Reigniting Orc-Alliance conflict when told not to, because he can't sit on his ass and let Thrall do the thing that would allow them not to waste lives against Alliance in Stonetalon Mountains
That's what happens when you tell an idiot that his father fixed his main mistake, but decided to skip over everything else he did.

>>49888440
>All Garrosh did "wrong" was to be a pro horde Orc.
You mean, pro Orc Orc. Because to him, Orcs = Horde = Warchief = Him.

>>49888528
>You mean, pro Orc Orc

Only at the very end when everyone else betrayed him.

>>49888513

Pretty much the entire WC3 campaign was cleaning up Grom's shit. I love how Thrall kept worshipping him as a big bro the entire time despite all the stupid bullshit he pulled, right from the tutorial when he got caught raiding humans and Thrall had to free him.

I was howling with laighter at WoD ending when he turns around and declares Draenor is free.

>>49888528
>>49888543

>hey, what if i kick out closely integrated parts of the horde from orgrimmar and tell them they will also get eventually genocided
>what if i refused to pay goblins?
>what if i insulted the other racial leaders and my subordinates in their face?
>what if i declared the horde orc-only?
>what if i ate an old gods heart?
>WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD

I know he is shitposting but I really want to see how far denial can reach.

>>49888543
He started being Orcs = Horde a bit earlier, when he started to betray everyone else first.
>Goblins are unfit to be part of the Horde, as they are not as honourable as Orcs
>Trolls should be in slums or out of Orgrimmar
>Heh, let's wait to see if Magatha can win control over Thunder Bluff from Baine, I won't help either
He had it coming.

>>49888577
>he started to betray everyone else first.

Untrue.

>>Goblins are unfit to be part of the Horde

Yup, they were a late addition and are terrible Jew stereotypes. He didn't betray them, and they had to prove themselves worthy.

>>Trolls should be in slums or out of Orgrimmar

He decided this after Vol'jin said he would assassinate him.

>>Heh, let's wait to see if Magatha can win control over Thunder Bluff from Baine, I won't help either

That was an internal Tauren matter. Though privately Garrosh wished Magatha to drown in piss for poisoning his axe.

>>49888440
He was a whiny bitch in BC, an idiot that had no place leading the Horde in Northrend in WotLK, a retard that pushed for war when the world was literally ending in Cata and he made the Horde the unambiguous bad guys in MoP
And I'm saying this as an orclover

>>49888706
>He was a whiny bitch in BC,

Yes.

>an idiot that had no place leading the Horde in Northrend in WotLK,

Growing Garrosh, with greatness thrust upon him.

>a retard that pushed for war when the world was literally ending in Cata

He took steps to address that. It was a good time to take resources for his people.

>he made the Horde the unambiguous bad guys in MoP

He was just doing the reasonable thing and looking for an advantage in the War.

>>49888706

Was it ever explained why the fuck he was promoted into overlord despite never commanding anything before and having absolutely no knowledge on the enemy, the territory or even their own troops over hundreds of more qualified orcs? Hell, he literally knew NOTHING about Azeroth.

It was pure nepotism on Thralls part. Poor Jorin Deadeye must have been sitting at that Nagrands crossroads for ten years by now.

>>49888886
Grom' son, so totes perfect command material just like his daddy.

>this is what thrall believed

>>49888886
Meanwhile, Dranosh Saurfang, who was already leading Mag'har was parties, was leading Horde troops in Northrend in front of them, and had no problems with working alongside Alliance.
>Thrall wanted Dranosh as his replacement, but he got killed at Wrathgate and made into Death Knight
To be frank, I would rather have Death Knight Dranosh be Warchief, than Garrosh "Impotent Leader" Hellscream.

Also, Jorin was in Garadar.
>Sends PC to make pact with Lantresor of the Blade
>After convincing Lantresor to cooperate, he sends you gifts to Garrosh
>He scoffs at those gifts and says that "I nor Garadar have any need for these useless trinkets."
Garrosh never knew anything of diplomacy either. Jorin would make much finer leader.

>>49888886

Garrosh was one of the finest warriors Azeroth had ever seen. He may not have understood strategy and logistics but he had great personal prowess and predatory instinct, which counts for a lot in winning battles at the tactical level. Add in his charisma, ability to inspire troops and the legend of his father giving benefit to morale in a very difficult campaign ("Man, I don't know if we have any chance to beat the Scourge, but if anyone can do it I bet it's THE SON OF HELLSCREAM!") and you have a lot of good raw materials for a leader. Thrall also sent Saurfang and son with him in the #2 and #3 leadership roles after all.

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>>49888886
>Love Bleeding Hollow clan
>Kilrogg is my bishie
>Hear his son exists
>Hype.jpeg
>MFW nobody gives a shit about him

>>49889131

That's what you get for loving a fatalistic traitor.

>>49889108
That post cracks me up, because the exact opposite is true for everything but him being Hellscream's son.
His idea of inspiring troops is literally "YOU'LL WIN OR DIE TRYING, CAUSE YLU SURE AS FUCK DON'T WANT TO COME BACK"

>>49889370

Did you read Sylvanas' short story? He inspires the Forsaken army so.much they willingly run face first.into a suicide mission which so decimates their army it ensures the extinction if their species.

>>49889764
Getting killed and then having your rotting corpse reanimated is bound cause some kind of brain damage.

>>49889902

>tfw you get plague bombed by retarded skellys

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>>49888433
This too.

Is the arcane still addictive?

I remember that there was three rules of arcane magic but it seems that the only really addictive magic is the fel. Has it been retconned?

>>49891086
Elves are still addicted to it. But they're the kind that get addicted to any magic.

>>49891095
Funny how everyone else seems to be just fine with arcane magic but the elves just have to go full meth head over it.

>>49891086
Yes but only in high doses

It's sort of like how alcohol is addictive. Just drinking a glass of wine a day isn't going to make you dependent, but when you're downing a bottle of port a day you're going to feel like crap if you stop

High elves have been drinking six bottles of vodka a day for the past ten thousand years in this metaphor

>>49891086
Yes, but it's harder to get addicted to than fel is. So long as you aren't an idiot and basically bathe in it like the elves did you'll probably be fine.

>>49887793
>Breakers/Primals are an incomplete terraforming device that was in testing when Nihilam happened

>>49891138
Probably because the elves have been sitting at ground zero of a pool made of pure magic and drinking in its energy like water for 10,000~ years.

>>49889370
>His idea of inspiring troops is literally "YOU'LL WIN OR DIE TRYING, CAUSE YLU SURE AS FUCK DON'T WANT TO COME BACK"

That's petty inspiring though.
Orcs are all over victory or death or at least imagine themselves to be.

>>49894111
Considering what they went through, I doubt all of them are. Also, I really doubt that the Tauren, Trolls, Forsaken, Goblins, Ogres or Pandas, also known as "the vast majority" would respond that well to "Win, die, or get crushed by me"

>>49894257
>Also, I really doubt that the Tauren, Trolls, Forsaken, Goblins, Ogres or Pandas, also known as "the vast majority" would respond that well to "Win, die, or get crushed by me"

Please, the Horde is Orcish.
The other races have adopted its customs.

Reminder
>Scourge immune to old god corruption
>Scourge immune to demon corruption

THE SCOURGE IS YOUR ONLY HOPE FOR SALVATION, OF YOUR PEOPLE, AZEROTH AND THE WHOLE UNIVERSE.

JUST BRING OUT YOUR DEAD.

>>49894533

DER MUS AWEES BEE UHHH LEECH KEEN would have been better if it was framed as keeping the Scourge as a weapon against the Legion and other threats.

>>49894342
The only customs the Orcs have are treachery, chimping out and drinking demon semen. Everything else was copied from Trolls and Tauren.
But I guess the Elves did copy the demon semen guzzling, at least for a while.

>>49894616
>Implying kicking the legion and old god teeth in wasn't the end game in the moment nerzhul's balls weren't in a vise
Yes anon.
Bolvar never gave in.

>>49894646

You're giving Team Metzen too much credit.

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>>49894785
>Implying metzen did anything wrong
>Implying he wasn't playing the long-con
You haven't even seen him release his true power just yet anon... He'll come back, oh you'll see.

>>49894342
I was always convinced that 'The Horde' was just the Orcish military body and that all the other races were just auxilia, in a sense that the Orcish Horde was the first among equals. The position as Warchief was always reserved for an Orc because the custom of Warchief was ultimately an Orcish one.

>>49895184
That was always the intent, particularly in the RTS series.
WoW has gotten out of hand in part due to popularity of some factions/races in the player base.

Varok Saurfang for warchief.

>he's popular, both in-setting and amongst the players (though the memes may or may not be a plus)
>he actually remembers the Old Horde, yet understands Thrall's New Horde ideals
>he understands strategy and logistic, unlike certain other ex-warchief
>he doesn't want unnecessary war, but he's not afraid to cleave a bitch if he gets pushed
>orc
>understands diplomacy. He actually noted how the Broken Shore retreat must've looked to the Alliance present, and that they have a right to be upset about Varian's death. May have something to do with Varian ordering Muradin & co. to stand down and let him have his son's body (one of my favorite scenes in the whole game)

>>49894840
retirement be a doorway
and time a window
he'll be back
hahaahahahahaAHHAHAHHHA

>>49895504
Saurfang is unironically a meme
>doesn't exist in the first 3 games
>suddenly exists as a heroic veteran of all 3 wars that is personal friends with Thrall
>but he feels bad about it because he killed innocent people :(
>so he continues to uphold the exact same role
>then does nothing until Wrath where he abandons the Horde and allows Garrosh to run rampant until WoD
>but he's so cool and badass because he was hard to kill in vanilla xD

>>49895504
He's too old. Might as well name Hamuul Runetotem, since at least Tauren are somewhat more long-lived.
We have literally ran out of Horde-affiliated lore relevant orcs. Nazgrim is Ebon Blade and thus crazy, Nazgrel has been irrelevant since early TBC, Rexxar has fucked off somewhere and has never wanted to lead, and so forth.
Heck, our best hopes for an orc warchief are Grom Hellscream or Durotan at this point. Either of them could rally the orcs on the point of glorious tales of their alternate selves and keep them united.

What would happen if the Blood Elves and Draenei swapped factions back in TBC?

>>49895849
>The prophecy promises the return of the man who wrote Warcraft 2 and 3 and whose only fault lay in nodding off bad authors

It will be a beautiful day.

>>49896106

Horde would have tieflings while all the female and most of the male population would be alliance side for le female models

>>49896079
There's Jorin Deadeye.
>>49896106
Even more outrage at lorerape than already had happened.

>>49896154
>Jorin Deadeye
>Literally the same issues as Nazgrel, just even less relevant

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>>49879212
How is the climate of Redridge Mountains and where in the real world I could find similar pics? I have a game session tomorrow and the party is heading there. I could use WoW screenshots but I try to get away from them to avoid my players thinking this is a MMO

>>49896154

>Even more outrage

I dunno, it's not like they did a top job when it came to how the Blood Elves joined the Horde

>>49896476
Redridge is just south of a major volcanically active zone but there's a mountainous buffer between it. There's also a river and a very shady/spooky area to the south that always struck me as kinda chilly because of it and the mist, but might just be murky and almost swampy, especially with the proximity of the Swamp of Sorrows and Stranglethorn also nearby.

I'd expect it's a bit warm and stony, but the lake makes it kind of an oasis, maybe even some hot springs potential to consider in the caves up north where the orcs and kobolds hang out in-game.

Just search Redridge Mountains, I'm sure you'll find plenty to work with on Google.

>>49896476
Climate in WoW is generally fucked up and doesn't make any logical sense.

However, given it's location, it should be warm. It's separated from coasts by mountains, so it would propably be pretty dry... color palette with lot of brown used ingame suggests that too. It's hilly, but not too high... propably comparable to Spain.

'course, all of that is just my opinion

>>49879893
To turn into lead?

>>49896476

I'd go with something from Yellowstone. Close to a volcanic zone, lots of rocks, runoff, vegetation is present but sparse. The oaks from the game dont fit though.

>>49879496
Orcs usually take a surname based off of a discerning feature or great deed they have done. However, there's many cases of orcs taking the surnames of their ancestors to honor their deeds and lives.

guys any one have a link to pdfs of chronicle vol I & II, im a poor fag who wants to read.

>>49897228
Some examples from Spain? I can only find full on dessert and full on green forest when looking for in Google. Quite funny indeed, it looks like there is only winter and summer there.

>>49881283
I always thought Kel'Thuzad gained independance when the LK initially lost some controll but choose to stay with the scourge

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>>49896476
Maybe something like this?

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>>49897540
I'd say look at some of the state parks and national forests in Southern California. A lot of them have a desert scrubland like
Thhis is from the Goldern Trout Wilderness area, admittedly after a rain. But it's got the red, rocky mountains, the scrubby vegetation and some proper trees.

>>49897607

This looks great, would adventure there.

>>49897409

WC3 had it all of the Scourge commanders who didn't break away were loyal to the LK without curses.

>>49889131
>>49889186
Bleeding Hollow Clan's ability to see into future is supreme
>MU Killrogg had to know he would die in Auchidoun
>In the end, he faces his fate with dignity, gives great fight to Danath (which he lost due to blindside), and still achieves what he wanted (gives enough time for Teron Gorefiend and Ner'zhul to teleport to Black Temple)

>In WoD Draenor a shaman have seen the future that would have been if not for Garrosh (from Grom drinking Blood of Mannoroth to Grom killing him and lifting the curse)
>WoD Killrogg knew from the start he would die in a yet not existing fortress facing a raid
>When raid is wiped, Killrogg even says that we weren't the ones he have seen.

>>49889764
You mean, that she have seen Forsaken so devastated from warring Worgen that they preferred to jump in the pyre than to face Worgen again, as Garrosh demanded?

>>49896003
>Kids that never participated in Silithus campaign
Someone who have never been there will never understand Varok "I don't eat pork" Saurfang's popularity.

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>>49899424
Kilrogg's yells during the fight are pretty sweet
>come brothers! SEIZE YOUR DESTINY
>LET'S SEE HOW MANY FALL BEFORE I DO
>GAZE INTO MY EYE AND WITNESS YOUR DOOM
>DID YOU BELIEVE YOU COULD KILL ME?

>>49899508
>one time he stood in Silithus and did nothing instead of standing in Orgrimmar doing nothing

>>49896191
At least he's more competent than Garrosh.
>Likely the last news he heard from Azeroth was that Lich King was defeated, around the time of Dranosh's funeral
He missed opportunity to meet WoD version of his father. Probably for the best, judging by other 2 Orcs that had this "pleasure".

>>49897290
Chronicle II will be released in March next year.
Also, torrents.

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>>49879212
>Warcraft
>lore

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>>49899524
Speeches, son, speeches.
At least, unlike certain Paladin in Stormwind, he wasn't mind controlled by a Black Dragon.

>>49888643
>Untrue.
Very true.
>Yup, they were a late addition and are terrible Jew stereotypes. He didn't betray them, and they had to prove themselves worthy.
And yet he were outjewing them by cutting their contracted payment if any of members of teams would die, with excuse "dead guys don't need money, who cares that contract was for specific amount"
>He decided this after Vol'jin said he would assassinate him.
Vol'jin warned him that his going to fuck up when he basically told Vol'jin he don't want his help. After warning, Garrosh chimps out, to which Vol'jin told him he will wait for his colossal fuckup when all Horde will be against him, when he will shoot him to death.
Later Garrosh sends Vol'jin to figure out what magic Mogu used to shape Saurok, and told one of his men to assassinate Vol'jin if he will refuse to use this magic, even if it would be most fucked up stuff (basically worse than Fel, which Garrosh hates, because Papa Hellscream drank Demonic Kool-Aid).
>That was an internal Tauren matter. Though privately Garrosh wished Magatha to drown in piss for poisoning his axe.
Sure, better wait for who will win between:
>Loyal Horde member that didn't challenged him to avenge Cairne (which he could do, as it was dishonorable kill in a fight won only thanks to poison), as he still honored that it was Mak'gora, even if cheated
and
>Magatha Grimtotem, leader of Tauren supremacists that don't want to be part of the Horde
Totally didn't betrayed his allies first. Not at all.

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>>49899566
Ah, a dedicated shitposter.

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Return to Karazhan will be definitely interesting stuff to behold.

>>49899594
The rightful queen of Stormwind, you mean

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>>49899594
High Overlord Saurfang yells: I am Saurfang. Brother of Broxigar. You know me to be the Supreme Commander of the Might of Kalimdor. An orc - a true orc warrior - wishes for one thing: To die in the glory of battle against a hated enemy. Some of you have fought in battles. Peace has been with us for many years. Many years we sat idle but many years we battled. In those years - where strife, the land and Legion and Scourge, sacked our homes, killed our families — these insects dwelled beneath us. Beneath our homes — waiting. Waiting to crush the life from our little ones. To slay all in their path. This they do for their god. And for our gods? We defend. We stand. We show that as one. United. We destroy. Their god will fall. To die today, on this field of battle, is to die an orcish death. To die today is to die for our little ones. Our old ones. Our … loved ones. Would any of you deny yourselves such a death? Such an honor?

Can't wait to slide in between those milky elven thighs...

>>49900815
>Brother of Broxigar.
fuck off Knaak

>>49883835
I wanted the end of Pandaland to be Saurfang leading his forces from Northred into Orgrimmar, and him making good his promise to the little shitstain.

>Varian and Metzens self-insert both arrive just in time to see Saurfang put the rabid dog down.

"Well. Fuck."

>>49900933
>Saurfang doing anything but talking

>>49900933
>Reminder that Varian forcing Thrall to spare Garrosh in MoP was ultimately responsible for his death in Legion.

>>49900970

>occupy the capital of your enemy
>"hmm nah, just spare their leader and leave"
>"be good kids"

Literally none of the numerous Alliance grievances got adressed and the horde went back to backstabbing and warmongering right away, Fucking top shelf writing.

>>49900969
He fought the Qiraji directly in the War of Shifting Sands. He also personally saves the Horde PC from a Lich in WotLK.

>>49900991
As a big fan of the Horde, I wanted to see the Horde guttted by the Alliance

I miss being the underdogs

>>49901010
Yeah, I'm a huge Horde fan, but they really went full retard for awhile.

>>49901010
Evan the fucking forum posters were all "There's no way to justify Org NOT being a pile of smoking rubble, sifted though by grief-stricken survivors."

The horde will never, under any circumstances, be made to pay for it's actions or take responsibility for it's crimes. To do so might upset some basement-dwelling raiders, or make Samwise cry.

>>49901106
Yeah, Org should have been razed and the Horde capital moved to Undercity while it was being rebuilt. Would have given them an excuse to use the entire city and not just the sewer system.

How to fix Horde:
Crack Elves defect to the Alliance
Sylvanas goes full genocide mode
Thrall dies in a suitably heroic way and is then forgotten
Jaina becomes the new leader of the Alliance (preferably by marrying Anduin and starting to train him to be a real man instead of orc cock loving boytoy)
Orgrimar gets mysteriously blown up after Horde tries to start shit again

>>49901133

>ogrimmar is under occupation, all guards are patrolling alliance soldiers
>NPCs trying to get their shit together in a ruined city
>some of the more peaceful and shamanistic ones telling "this is what happens if you like war too much and lose" and urging the orc to return to their roots
>some of them are becoming full revanchist WC2 fags
>some of them are stilll freedom fighters urging the horde to resist and fight on but turns out these guys were burning blade agents
>alliance occupation force likewise conflicted, some of them try to be harsh but fair, some are full vengeful tormentors

how about we had a rehash of BC with a time travel plot instead?

>>49901176
>How to fix the Horde:
>Do everything wrong and ruin the Horde

Wow, I never knew Kosak came to these threads

>>49901176
You don't fix a faction by making the other faction even worse.

>>49900820
Wat

>>49901236
Oh man that sounds awesome, I'd almost be willing to accept Cataclysm and everything that followed if that's what happened after MoP.

Would need work if I were to try and use that as a setting for a tabletop RPG though, I think a re-done Cataclysm with sane Sylvanas, no Garrosh, and Thrall remaining warchief still has more potential as a tabletop setting, primarily because it undoes Cataclysm

>>49899594
My boner is conflicted
But it is still upright regardless

>>49901236
But what about muh new zones and new raids? It is not like we have any credible threats left on Azeroth like old gods or nagas, or new places to explore like the ruins of the Nerubian underground empire.

>>49901273
I believe that he wants to tell the world that he wants to fuck an elf with milky thighs.

I wish we actually got baller armour and weapons like the Blood Elf Paladin in that picture.

I remember rolling one purely from the sheer badass vibe of the idea in TBC but then found out they use shit that looks like generic lvl 40 "babby's first plate armour: red and black flavour".

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>>49901357
We all do Anon...

>>49901307
New zones: Zandalar, Kul Tiras, Kezan. Each with multiple zones within them

New raids: Ragefire Resistance. Neeru Fireblade has used the chaos of the Alliance occupation to gain followers and has begun his uprising! Go through an expanded version of the Ragefire Chasm dungeon fighting orcish, forsaken and even some troll warlocks and demons, before fighting Neeru himself as the final raid boss.

Zuldazar Palace: The half-sunken throne of the trolls. Kill Rastakhan, king of the Zandali, once and for all

Mt Kezan: There is elemental shit going on inside the active volcano on Kezan, fight fire elementals, water elementals, crazy goblins and emissaries of N'zoth

>>49901376

This just reminded me how the goblin starter zones, both Kezan and that tropical island were some of the most popular zones in the game alongside with Gilneas but they were never revisited.

>>49901448
It's cause Blizzards can't do anything tropical without infesting it to the brim with Trolls.

>>49901376

Fuck that noise, the Zandalar trolls were bros and had good reasons to not be assholes but then a content drought in cataclysm needed some villain to jump in.

>>49901603
>implying that Gara'jal isn't the best part of MoP raiding

>>49901620

>implying any later troll raid boss can hold up to Zul'aman, the place that was perfect in every possible way

MAKE WAY FOR DA NALORAKK

>>49901376
>New Raid: Caverns of Time: Assault on Blackrock Spire

The Infinite Dragon flight is attempting to mess with the time line by abducting Lothar prior to his final battle. You have to rescue him and then charge with the Alliance against both the Horde and Infinite Dragonflight to make sure he gets to his fight with Doomhammer.

Daily reminder that Lor'themar should be warchief.

>>49901697
Yeah, he's proven he has what it takes on numerous occasions. And at this point he's second only to Sylvanas in seniority.

>>49901697
Lo'themar is too sane for that position.

>>49901730
This.
>Lor'themar will you be warchi-
>TEHRE IS NO SUCH THING AS LOR'THEMAR, LITERALLY WHO HEHE. I HAVE TO GO NOW.

>>49901920
I'm expecting Lor'themar to eventually just say screw it and have Rommath and Aethas fly Silverwood away with The Sunwell Dalaran style where nobody can bother it.

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>>49899594
I swear to God the women that personalami draws.

>>49902306
>his softcore art is 11/10
>barely draws any hardcore and what he does draw is somehow not nearly as good

>>49902306
>>49902339
>tfw so ruined by jap and chink caveart that the western shit doesn't do it to me anymore
>tfw favorite h-artist draws lots of sexy as fuck pics of certain character and clearly likes her but due to contract reasons can't draw porn of her

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>>49900657
Queen Tiffin didn't die for you to say that, anon.

>>49902575
>literally Marie Antoinette
monarchy was a mistake

>>49902371
Who is it anon? Tell me.

>>49902175
>Dalaran is a floating city but also the flying Azeroth Bluehelmet Headquarter
>Not a ruined metropolis overrun with feral undead, demons, rogue wizards and criminals
>Not a dystopian minicosmos of treachery and survival where zhe living, the dead and the damned clash

What a waste.

>>49902968

Wotlk Dalaran was great and had a great theme so I will forgive that one. There is no need to force grimdark into everything.

>>49903080
Dalaran being fully rebuild and turned Into a flying city about a decade after being completely annihilated by a demon lord of the Burning Legion is a huge asspull, though, especially when half of Silvermoon is still busted from the far less thorough wrecking it received at the hands of the Scourge.

>>49903188
To be fair Dalaran's entire population wasn't composed from magic addicts that still suffer from withdrawal after Arthas' cold turkey treatment.

>>49903188
human bias

>>49903188

But we see Kael and all the mages working hard on restoring Dalaran in TFT. It was also the HQ of Garithos, and the last human bastion in the area so its not a stretch to imagine they rallied all reinforcements and supplies they could there. The area around the bubble was completely busted. Plus y'know, wizards.

I want to play a tabletop WoW game. Yes, I'm aware of the d20 Warcraft stuff, but it's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something more that fits the game, where you can make a warrior and do stuff like charge and mortal strike.

Is there anything like this? I've looked online for 4e conversions and yet to find anything with any quality.

>>49903424
I know there's a 5th edition conversion at least, which is apparently decent, but probably not modified enough to really have the Warcraft mechanics feel (more than the original 3.5-based RPG, though, since 5th edition actually does give martials some stuff to do other than "I make full attack" and "I go have a smoke while the wizard solves everything").

>>49903448
I'm looking at some for 5e and it seems like they are trying to give Warriors and other non-magic classes abilities beyond auto-attack. Thanks for the suggestion.

>>49903424
I'd love to get a team of guys together to homebrew up a full Warcraft RPG using 4e as a basis

Not just races, but all the classes as well, since a lot of the 4e classes don't really match up with Warcraft classes, and the 4e class/role mechanics are almost the exact opposite way around to the WoW class/role mechanics


Alternatively, if the translators could just fucking finish translating the Log Horizon RPG, that's basically perfect right out of the box. Better than 4e even, due to having actual MMO mechanics like aggro

>>49903405
It's not rebuilt, Kael and Garithos are hunkering down in a ruined megacity and using the wased buildings as hideouts. It's like Stalingrad (or was it Leningrad?). Medieval urban warfare.

>>49903080
It wouldn't have been grimdark at that point. It doesn't even have to be a Mordheim level of abyssmal horrourscape, just an abandoned place with an inherent sadness and a convenient place for misfits and monsters to hide.

>>49903684

>It's not rebuilt

It is literally being in the process of getting rebuilt. Kael even angsts over how he is put on garrison duty.

> just an abandoned place with an inherent sadness and a convenient place for misfits and monsters to hide.

But it wasnt abandoned. Quite the opposite, everyone went there after Garithos has retaken it cause it was a completely logical destination for refugees.

>>49903626
It's something this thread could do.

>>49904011
Would people be alright with me dumping my 4e-versions of Warcraft races here?

I don't have them on the computer I'm currently using, but I can probably get them up here soon

>>49904256
couldn't hurt, I'd suggest ideas, but I've never played 4e and know little about how it's different from 5e

I'm not really sure if I like her actual mechanics, but Nythendra's design is cool as fuck. I'm actually surprised that Blizzard took so long to add a worm-that-walks to the game, and that they'd start off with a fucking dragon

>>49903188
>>49903220
Yeah, I mean, it's so ridiculous that a city, which is the center of magical learning in Azeroth and likely has more magi inhabiting it than the whole of Quel'thalas, was able to rebuild itself in around ten years.

It's as if they have some kind of unusual method of reconstructions. Something fast and unrealistic. Like magic, if you will.

>>49903626
Problem with creating TTRPG using WoW's class mechanics and abilities is that the classes in WoW change each expansion. Sometime multiple times.

>>49903758
>>49903684
>>49903405

Reminder that there wasn't anything showing there was still a Kirin Tor beyond Kael in TFT. And Garithos' crew was called the last bunch of Human resistance even though WoW has it the Scarlet Crusade and Argent Dawn are things.

Going over TFT again, I dig the comradeship the Scourge had. Like when Arthas calls Kel'thuzad his friend or told some Crypt Fiends he wouldn't let them die. WoW really played that part of the Scourge commanders down, what with Arthas planning for his Death Knights to get clobbered and his commanders to get mowed over.

>>49906580
>Scourge
Brothers in arms, never let a nigga die
>Ebon Blade
HE SUCKS DICK LET HIM DIE (still rescues him)

>>49906580
Bro Arthas didn't fit the Saturday morning villain direction that they had for Arthas.

>>49906580

They needed some really contrived reason to make playable death knights allowed. But then the Ebon Blade became scourge-lite too with liches, banshees, abominations, ghouls, gargoyles etc, the whole Wc3 army, except they are much smarter about it than sylvanas.

>>49906770


Fuck I hated that so much in wotlk. All the worst, hammy clichés coming up YOU HAVE FAILED ME DRAKURU and all that shit. Not to mention showing up in every zone to drop exposition and go MWHAHAHA I WILL GET YOU NEXT TIME <playername>

>>49906943
>But then the Ebon Blade became scourge-lite too
That's honestly what I love about playing a Death Knight and their little story in Legion. Makes me nostalgic for Warcraft 3, but allows me to make some RP out of it.

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>>49906975

Nostalgia is a double-edge. One day you will log in and realize that you do not know the characters surrounding.

>>49906943
>But then the Ebon Blade became scourge-lite too
>Then gave up and became the scourge

>>49906770

The Arthas book played it down too actually. It cut oht Arthas calling KT his friend. And its version of the run from Lordaeron had Arthas go on about how he had contempt for his undead subjects.

>>49899565
Ty , finally I find it.

>>49907730
To be fair I can imagine Arthas having contempt for his subjects. His whole arc was to be a betterer king than his father, and do it all wrong. Where Terenas loved his subjects, Arthas would've despised them. Assuming that's the justification they go with, it could work.

>>49908896

But that's not what happened in TFT when the curse of Frostmourne is wearing off.

>>49879212
People still take the Warcraft lore seriously?

>>49909239
Sunk cost fallacy and nostalgia

>>49908896
It's well established that Arthas genuinely loved his kingdom and people before he was corrupted. He was never villainous to begin with, and no canon materials ever implied that he was.

That being said, he was an imperfect hothead, and his impulsive behavior led to his fall from grace.

>>49906943
Drakuru was fucking based too
all he wanted was for Arthas and <playername>-senpai to notice him

>>49909239
Old lore is taken seriously (in a way, at least).

Current lore is utterly fucked up.

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>>49909097

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>>49909842

>>49909842
>>49909868
>ywn be kidnapped and used as a breeding tool by the draenei after they realize their population is too small and they need to interbreed with the other races of Azeroth to maintain their genes

>>49910028
>Med'an was only the beginning

>>49910147
Med'an was part orc too, that's the problem

>>49902371
Is this Fue and Boudicca?

Also how the fuck did a Qiraji get on board Tempest Keep

>>49910693
Old Gods and their servants are a diamond dozen if you go far enough

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>>49910028

Draenei were a mistake

>>49911423
Kil'jaeden pls, shouldn't you be cosplaying as a naaru right now?

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>>49911423
No, draenei should suck on me steak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zupQTxglI7o

>Last Days of the Alliance

>tfw not really Last Days of the Alliance

>>49912076
>>tfw not really Last Days of the Alliance
humans are like cockroaches, for every one you kill, there are two more hidden somewhere you'll never get to

>>49911028
I hope DrGraevling gets thoroughly sodomized by the fans one day. But I'm talking like, real gentle and loving kind of sodomy.

>>49910693
>>49910757

"We span the universe, as endless as the stars"

>>49912203
>It is a small matter to control the mind of the weak... for I bear allegiance to powers untouched by time, unmoved by fate. No force on this world or beyond harbors the strength to bend our knee... not even the mighty Legion!
can't wait to find out that the reason that the Legion is making a push on us is because they're getting their shit pushed in by distant Old Gods
Argus will be a three-way fight between the Void, the Legion and the Army of the Light

>>49912094

They should have put just Stormwind, Kul'tiras, and Ironforge together and called it the Top Trio or something.

>>49906602
Gives a whole new meaning to "Ebon Blade"

>>49888476
>>Dranosh Saurfang was effectively leading Mag'har in Nagrand
>>And somehow Garrosh was hailed as a hero of War in Northrend, despite never leading forces in person.

But this is wrong. Garrosh wasn't the chieftain of the mag'har just BECAUSE. He was the chieftain because he was strongest and wisest (yes, that means better suited for the role than Saurfang Jr.) and the only reason Garrosh was mopey when we found him in Nagrand was because Geyah was sick. Geyah herself even says that all the spirits approved of Garrosh.

By all accounts, Garrosh was doing a good job leading the mag'har right up until Geyah fell sick. Then he started to doubt himself because he felt that without her guidance he'd fall to bloodlust and damn his people like his father did.

Ironically enough, he was actually right. Even so, if you actually go back and do those quests... pay close attention to the quest text and flavor text. It lays everything out there before you.

Garrosh was a good leader and a strong warrior (people ask how Garrosh ever got strong in the first place or where his warrior skill came from but they forget he lived on a hostile world where resources are scarce and his people had to contend with demons, fel orcs, ogres, Broken, and possibly even Alliance Expedition soldiers for those resources) and he only begun to fail in his duties after the closest thing he had to a mother begun to die.

>>49901307
The most credible threat on Azeroth are the nations themselves. The armies, heroes, and heroines of the Alliance and Horde have stood against the darkest and most powerful entities in existence. Making sure they DON'T clash would be an epic story in itself. Or worse, some of those immensely powerful people that can fight gods one on one and can rally whole armies start actively taking power for themselves.

As nasty as the Horde civil war was on and off screen, just imagine how bad an /Alliance/ civil war would be. Game of Thrones crossed with the Hundred Years war, with world-breaking magic and fucking air fleets.

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>>49913913

>lake so tiny you could walk around it
>build a bridge over it

>>49914032
It's only that tiny in-game

>>49906278
Lack of organized cooperation kills the team.
Then again, in Ashbringer comic, Paladins were sitting under the rock for a while, so Scarlet Crusade was not a thing until around the time Garithos died.
And I'm pretty sure that Argent Dawn was a splinter group of Scarlet Crusade.

And Paladins likely needed some time to bring all dead Holy people to Light's Hope Chapel, to prevent their resurrection as Undeads.

>>49914356

I still find it depthlessly funny that the one dimensional racist strawman is still a more interesting and compelling character with a bigger impact than many of the writers pet characters. Garithos actually succeeded preventing a full collapse, rallied all the alliance remnants, took back and repaired Dalaran, pushed back the Scourge and if not for Sylvanas being a treacherous cunt the forsaken could be part of the Alliance right now as undead citizens of Lordaeron.

>>49914647
>meatsacks actually believe this

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>>49914647
You are drastically overselling Garithos.

>the one dimensional racist strawman is still a more interesting and compelling character
He definitely isn't, for the exact reasons you said. That's literally his whole character.

>Garithos actually succeeded preventing a full collapse, rallied all the alliance remnants
Which only lasted a month, if that, largely due to his own hubris.

>took back and repaired Dalaran
That I can't speak on.

>pushed back the Scourge
While it was severely weakened and disorganized.

>and if not for Sylvanas being a treacherous cunt the forsaken could be part of the Alliance right now as undead citizens of Lordaeron.
Yeah, because he's such a tolerant and understanding person.

Stop being such a memeing faggot.

>>49914647
the best thing is he's dead and gone so they'll have a real difficult time ever fucking him up with retcons

deathknight garithos killing sylvanas would be the kind of stupid plotline pottery I'd actually like to see, though

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>>49914696
>Bolvar decides to re-gas the Forsaken, undead war now
>while slaughtering Forsaken abominations so slowly find pieces of Garithos
>sew him together right and rez him
>send him, Koltira and Whitemane to kill Sylvanas

>>49914730
Scourge Garithos purging Sylvanas would be worth seeing.

>>49914680

>He definitely isn't, for the exact reasons you said. That's literally his whole character.


Thats the joke, retard. DESPITE being a literal fucking strawman he comes off right and the things he does make sense completely in opposition what the retarded writers intended.

>Yeah, because he's such a tolerant and understanding person.

it even showed that his racism is only skin deep and he is willing to work with pretty much anything towards a common goal.

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>>49914756
All right, you're operating on levels of stupid I can't even work with.

I'm just going to assume you're trolling, so go ahead and tell me that my posts went just as kekaiku or whatever.

Had Garithos lived he likely would have wound up as Balnazzar's meat suit anyway.

>>49914647
>and if not for Sylvanas being a treacherous cunt the forsaken could be part of the Alliance right now as undead citizens of Lordaeron.
>Now get out of my city before...

>>49914993
More likely Detheroc's, which was strongest of the 3, but he preferred mind control, over possession.
I wonder when he will be back.

>>49914756
>it even showed that his racism is only skin deep and he is willing to work with pretty much anything towards a common goal.
>skin deep
>hating elves and looking for any excuse to kill them all, because some members of his family died due to "elven inaction", which was their right, as they weren't part of Alliance anymore, and likely didn't even knew of Scourge until too late
>hating on dwarves because they didn't came to him immediately, because they were stuck behind rocks, and would never be able to get to him on their own due to Scourge forces between them and his forces
Garithos was a racist for no reason, especially that humans had no previous conflict with Naga, so him forbidding Kael'thas using their aid was only so Blood Elves would be either wiped by Scourge, or they would give him reason to accuse them of treason and execute.

>>49915056
Probably biding his time, or he's already back. Probably jacking off to Sylvanas' banshees or something. So biding his time.

>>49879212
I've never been into the over-exaggerated fantasy swords and don't get their appeal.

>>49914756
Nah mate

Daelin was retroactively made correct by shitty writing, but Garithos is and was always a moron

He banished Kael'Thas (Who wanted to work with and help the Alliance) and trusted Sylvanas (Who was blatantly using him). That sort of thing requires a special kind of stupid

>>49915151
Has trusting Sylvanas ever turned out well for anybody? I'm legitimately curious.

>>49915181
Literally none.

>>49915181
Arguably Lor'Themar. Without Sylvanas the blood elves in Silvermoon probably would have been destroyed by the remnants of the scourge

>>49915081

>creepy snakemen we never heard about before
>lol lets trust them for no reason I bet they dont have any ulterior motives!

Also, Kael was bitching about being put on garrison duty and bitched about actually having to face the scourge.

>>49915151

He let off Kael with a warning and then he did the same shit again and got court-martialed for it

>>49915427
>subordinate asks that you stop using his mages and hardened warriors as literal babysitters
>send him on a suicide mission (inb4 cheese it with air, if that's canon then so is Malfurion killing Archimonde with landmines)
>WOOOOOW WTF BUGGED ORDER FOLLOWING MECHANICS

>>49915457

>WAAAH I DONT WANT TO BE ON GARRISON DUTY
>WAAAH I DONT WANT TO BE ON FRONTLINE DUTY

Also, every mission they did was a suicide mission. Garithos himself took on the scourge advancement head on and Kael bitched about the remants slipping through.

>>49915495
>>49915457
It wasn't really a suicide mission, he just wasn't given the tools required for the job and so had to make do with a temporary alliance with these fish people.

Which honestly, considering the circumstances, made sense, they weren't immediately hostile and weren't undead.

With Varian gone who's the leader of the Alliance forces? Greymane?

>>49915792
Kinda. Everyone is holding up Anduin as the new leader, even the ones thousands of times older than him.
Greymane is leading the Alliance's expedition to the Broken Isles because he wants to kill Sylvanas.

>>49915849
Horde and Alliance aren't doing shit against Legion
Sylvanas is using all her resources to enslave Valkyr
Greymane is using all his resources to kill Sylvanas

>>49915849
>in this time of the crisis who should be our supreme leader
>a naive kid with no experience or literally anyone else?
>chose naive kid

Fucking Blizzard, a non-human blue warchief when?

>>49915877
>non-human blue warchief when?
They're on their second one. The first one died before doing anything and then their second one is a colossal cunt.

>>49915885
That is the red warchief, I'm bitching about the blue warchief.

>>49915892
Sylvanas is blue.

>>49915877
Finally, Mekkatorque's time to shine.

>>49915914
If Lor'Themar was warchief, and Mekkatorque was blue warchief, WoW would become an interesting political thriller, but you wouldn't have overt conflict between the factions anymore

>>49916066
Which is why this'll never happen.
FUH DA HOARD/ALIANS, CHARJ DA ALIANS/HOARD>Actually having to put any effort into the plot.

>>49914032
It's not any bigger in the movie, which are the only official visual references we've got.

According to the movie, towns on Azeroth really are made out of 3-5 houses.

Idiots.

>>49915255
And Sylvanas blackmailed him to force belves to participate in Northrend campaign, when all they wanted was to be left alone to rebuild their homeland after their king's betrayal.

>>49916388
Yes, but Silvermoon is still there and is still held by the elves

That is better than the alternative

>>49916388

>rekt by undead
>civil war between high and blood elves
>civil war between blood elves and other blood elves
>civil war between blood elves and wretched
>some troll shit on the side

At this point they are lucky to exist and be in control of some not completely wrecked land.

>>49916802
Blood Elves themselves would not be able to stop Zul'jin and his Amani.

>>49916802
>rekt by undead
Mostly dealt with before everything else. But not completely and the only reason why Sylvanas was able to blackmail Lor'themar in the first place

>civil war between high and blood elves
Never happened unless you count Purge of Dalaran which happened much later and far from Quel'thalas. Even Northrend where belves and helves stood with different factions wasn't civil war, and in any case came after (and as a result of) Sylvanas' blackmail. Disagreement over their respective behavior isn't civil war

>civil war between blood elves and other blood elves
Dealt with before the Northrend campaign, with the help of draenei, not undead

>civil war between blood elves and wretched
What war? Dealing with few madmen isn't war

>some troll shit on the side
Belves actually joined forces with both factions to deal with that... also dealt with before Kael'thas' betrayal and not presenting problem until Cataclysm drove Zandalari to uniting troll tribes

>>49917325
>>49917325

>>49901656

That would be the tits.

>>49914680
Garithos was effective, thats true. He was also a titanic asshole and a racist fucktard that strained relations even in his own army.

If it wasn't for Garithos, the High Elves, and later the Blood Elves, would almost certainly still be a part of the Alliance.

On the other hand, he was an amazing tactician that took on whole scourge hordes with an under-supplied, vastly outnumbered force, and won repeatedly. If he'd had someone at his right hand to temper his personal hatreds and grievances, he likely would be viewed as a hero.

>>49908919
>>49909543
Oh no absolutely. Pre WC3 Arthas was a cool dude, it all went downhill pretty rapidly for him. I meant while wandering around Northrend by himself and his return during the events of TFT.

But I've not read the Arthas novel so I was unqualified to really comment on it. But I could see Arthas wandering through a burning Lordaeron, insane and just a bit contemptuous of his former subjects who so easily fell to the half-formed Scourge.

>>49916066
Honestly? Thats what the game needs for a time. An expansions based on jockeying for power in the shadows, while everything else has time to cool off.

Less armies clashing and world-shaking enemies, and more SI7 vs Shadow Hunters playing cat-and-mouse in the alleys and across some demilitarized zone as they play CIA-KGB games.

>Everyone thinks the world is finally becoming sane and peaceful, when the war has just gone dark.

Goblin trade caravans in Stormwind, are they a cover for infiltrators? The Night Elven diplomats in Thunder Bluff, are they a cover for a few "tragic accidents?"

Fuck up, and you risk global war breaking out.

Call the expansion: World of (Cold)Warcraft.

>>49918945
>Fighting Night Elven SI7 commandos on a dark, moonless night.

This is gonna hurt.