Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

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First for smug orc and fuck off to the politics faggots of the last thread.

>>49863029

This is what Hillary voters actually pretend.

>>49863048
Man, I love the Headless Horseman dungeon; even though I got the mount 2 years ago, I'll run it at least once per Hallow's End just to hear the boss. The voice acting is superb.

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>>49862682
>>49862277

http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2016/10/sargon-of-akkad-on-hillary-clinton.html?m=1

http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-bombshell-hillary-clinton-hates-everyday-americans/

http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2016/10/more-wikileaks-clinton-emails.html?m=1

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So was Arthas undead or not?

>>49863509
Definitely not in the sense of being dead and resurrected.

Actually Blizzard has had quite a few things described as undead although they probably weren't resurrected corpses. Chronicles however gives us a nice bit of information:

Death is its own magical aspect. As with all the magics in warcraft, exposure alters you in some form. Acolytes, Necromancers an Death Knights all basically have been altered by death magic, preserving their bodies from natural decay but not making them living corpses.

If you want a pre-Chronicles explanation, I think it's fairly easy to say "No, he's not undead" and still giving him all his necromantic abilities.

>>49863329
get the fuck out of my warcraft thred and back to >>>/pol/

This place is for waifus and the toppest of keks. Not your political shilling.

>>49863251
A guildie and I were talking about that last night while going after some Hallow's End achievements. The Headless Hoseman's dialogue and delivery are pretty damn good. I legitimately enjoy listening to him talk.

>>49863509
>>49863588

There's a bit on this on Arthas' WoWpedia page:

>Although Arthas is marked as undead in various sources, it was confirmed by Chris Metzen and Alex Afrasiabi that he never died.[67] Rise of the Lich King described the death knight Arthas as "straddling the worlds" of life and death.[68] He was said to be "alive after a fashion", but the energy Ner'zhul gave him through Frostmourne left him with several traits common to the undead: his hair and skin grew pale, plants died at his touch,[69] living animals feared him, and he did not tire.[70] When he donned the Helm of Domination, Arthas felt the Lich King's power pierce his heart, stop his breath and freeze his veins.[71] He went on to survive years of being frozen in ice, suggesting that he'd made the transition into true undeath. He even removed his own heart, and later said the "incessant drumming" of living hearts disgusted him.

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>>49863660
>the "incessant drumming" of living hearts disgusted him.

>>49863588
>>49863660

And what about running into a snowstorm in Northrend?

>>49863641
Also, memes aside, I'm quite liking Khadgar's VA. His dialogue in Kilrogg's Visions of Demise is great, and his VA, overall, is pretty damn solid.

>>49863660
>He even removed his own heart, and later said the "incessant drumming" of living hearts disgusted him.
how can demon hunter edge even compete?

>>49863924
You know what's true betray?

Killing your king because of peer pressure

"Is it truly righteousness that drives you? I wonder."

and loot

Literally wanted to join him, fuck Bolvar. Scourge civil war when?!!

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So somebody riddle me this.

If the Legion wants to subjugate everything, and the Old Gods are paramount to the survival of Azeroth (Since they're basically living cancer on a Titan), why the fuck is everybody still trying to kill them? Pandaria got fucked up because of the death of Y'Saarj, and for years we've just been murdering beings like C'Thun and Yogg-Saron for shits-n-giggles when the Lich King erroneously used the latter's blood for smithing.

>>49859847
before the cosmology of the Burning Legion was sorted out, every daemon from Sargeras to Kil'jaeden to the rank and file were all doomguards
I prefer the notCovenant we have now

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Which faction has more Dindus?

>>49864056
It's only a relatively recent realization, if it's one at all.

Like, keep in mind that only the absolute fucking greatest scholars and archaeologists know anything about the stuff that's mentioned in Chronicles. To almost everyone, the Old Gods are a terrifying threat that rends sanity and threatens Azeroth just as much as the Legion does, they're just not particularly important at the moment.

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>>49864080
Fuck you I'm voting for Mickey Mouse. No go back to /pol/.

>>49863924
>how can demon hunter edge even compete?
But they sacrificed EVERYTHING

>>49864056
>the Old Gods are paramount to the survival of Azeroth
>they're basically living cancer on a Titan

wat. how is being living cancer paramount to azeroths survival?

>>49864333
They're the size of continents and are so deeply embedded in the planet that killing all of them could cause a second Cataclysm, basically

>>49864333
If you kill them it'd do more damage than Deathwing rocking out to KORN.

>>49864056
Because if we don't kill them, they'll corrupt Azeroth's worldsoul, turn it into something worse than Sargeras and bring in the void lords, who will then consume all reality.

Azeroth's death is the better option, Sargeras is right in this case, even though his solution is extreme. We can only hope there will be a better option sometime in the future.

>>49864056
The Legion wants to KILL everything to avoid Void corruption. The Void wants to corrupt everything with itself, something that Sargeras considered a fate much worse than death when he saw a Void-infested planet. In Azeroth, we're just keeping them in check; C'Thun and Yogg-Saron are still alive, we just shoved them back into their rooms because they were being assholes. We also can't kill the bastards because:
>It requires immense, mind-boggling power to do so. Y'shaarj just died because Aman'thul got tired of the Black Empire's shit and pulled him out of Azeroth himself, leaving behind only his heart and some corruption (which were by themselves another huge pain in the ass to get rid of, as seen in MoP), and a great bloody crater that would eventually become the Well of Eternity
>Even if we had the power to do so (and I don't believe we're that far, considering we now have mages that surpass Aegwynn, Priests that walk aroud with a Naaru onna stick, and the weapons of a guy that had to be killed by Sargeras himself), removing all the Old Gods would probably kill Azeroth itself. Not a smart move when you live on it.

Also, Void Lords can't manifest by themselves on the "real world", they need to occupy a living vessel to manifest themselves here, hence the Burning Legion's efforts to erradicate all life. If the Void Lords got hold of even a garden variety Titan Baby/World Soul, the resulting entity would be unimaginably, universe-destroying powerful, let alone Azeroth, that is supposed to be extra-powerful even by Titan standards.

I do wonder, though, if the Legion is going to commit mass suicide after every other living being in the universe is dead. Most of them are still technically alive, right?

>>49864333
>>49864355
Here's what I don't get

If Azeroth has 4 HUGE tumors on her since infancy, how the fuck is there any hope for her to wake up and not be CORRUPTED.docx?

Is she the planet itself?

Is the planet an egg and she'll shatter the entire world when born?

Is she some kinda spirit that will exit the planet when matured then turn physical?

Does Sargeras actually want to stick his rod inside her well of eternity?

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>>49863924
Kinda hard to compare sacrifice for moar powah! to sacrifice to murder/death/kill the bane of all life more efficiently.

>>49864443
>Does Sargeras actually want to stick his rod inside her well of eternity?
destro warlocks stole his rod so he can't

>>49864443
>Is the planet an egg and she'll shatter the entire world when born?
Doubt it since, you know, that would kinda mean GAME OVER out-of-universe and in-universe, I doubt the Titans would want their creations to be destroyed.

>>49864443
>Is she some kinda spirit that will exit the planet when matured then turn physical?
Most likely. Maybe combined with her being the actual planet.

>>49864443
I'm backing the armadillo theory until it's proven wrong

>>49864443
>how the fuck is there any hope for her to wake up and not be CORRUPTED.docx?
considering how fucking easy it is to corrup shit (see val sharah), there isnt.

>>49864459
It baffles me how Gul'Dan can be both so arrogant and so stupidly incompetent at the same time, yet still manage to kill Varian Wrynn and steal Illidan's corpse.

>>49864645
>tfw Gul'dan-senpai notices you if you killed Archimonde in WoD

>>49864443
Actually, just 3 HUGE tumors. Y'shaarj was killed (and completely removed as of MoP), Yoggie and C'thun are licking their wounds deep within the earth, and N'zoth has yet to be seen, even if we had/have to deal with his minions/influencees for years.

>how the fuck is there any hope for her to wake up and not be CORRUPTED.docx?
That's all we have, really: hope that she'll wake up and shake off the tentacle monsters before they get to her mind.

Our future is pretty bleak, when you stop to think about it:
>We can get razed by the Burning Legion;
>We can get [Something much worse than death]ed by the Old Gods/Void Lords if Azeroth gets CORRUPTED.com
>We may just get killed when Azeroth wakes up and crushes us all as she scratches her butt (if, as this guy >>49864577 says, the armadillo theory is right)
>We can all die of old age, and get fucked after millennia in the afterlife by Void Lords reaching through the realms/realities/planes/whathaveyou after infecting a World Soul

Nihilism seems to be the most reasonable option when you stop to analyze things. Excuse me while I indulge in the most revolting debauchery Goldshire has to offer.

>>49864695
You know, you can always sign up with the Shadow Priests.

I hear they are pretty cool dudes. And cunning. And attractive.

>>49864747
Go home Xal'atath, you're drunk.

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>>49864778
I'm fucking trying, asshole.

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I've seen some neat artwork alluding to artifact storylines recently.

>>49864961
Isn't that the one you kill in Northrend?

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>>49864961
Anyone know if it's compiled anywhere? A book I can purchase, an online gallery, anything?

>>49864975
> And then the great lord of flame kept hitting a single dwarf for fifty fucking minutes whilst his friends spammed healing shit.
> He was felled by some group of faggots with some bows and dinosaurs whilst this went on, unable to focus on anything but the dwarf for reasons he could not understand.

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>>49864971
I'd guess N'zoth, doesn't resemble Yoggie or C'thun imo, though the architecture looks more from Ahn'Qiraj than anything

>>49865003
>though the architecture looks more from Ahn'Qiraj than anything
thats a pic of the black empire

>>49865047
It sure is, and the architecture looks similar to that of Ahn'Qiraj. Just an observation, mon.

Sure would like to know the sauce of artifact artwork tho

Any of you wonder about how a reboot could go? Or how the gap between WC3 and WoW could have gone?

>>49865179

I dont really have happy or even enjoyable thoughts anymore.

>>49865179
with the current hacks being responsible for story and lore? i dont even want to imagine

>>49864056
>when the Lich King erroneously used the latter's blood for smithing.
>erroneously

lol, he knew what he was doing. The whispers only affect the living. Part of the reason why Yogg was waiting as long as he was after corrupting the watchers was because he didn't want to provoke the scourge.

>>49865179
>the gap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlVSJ0AvZe0
You mean those four years? Political strife, miscellaneous skirmishes that cause tensions to rise, scapegoating from both sides, and no major lore characters dying, armies being raised.

So, probably like playing SW: Attack of the Clones as an mmo.

>>49865186
This, Blizzard and Activision would only fuck it up

Times change, and the writers would just inject social or political commentary into it instead of focussing on adhering to the original lore

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>>49865265
goddamnit.

>>49864080
Horde.

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>>49865422
t. Alliance

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>>49865293
You might appreciate this one, my brother from another mother

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>>49865463
I love it
>tfw couldn't protect him or his vision
Fukken vol'jin.

Who the hell is left that could be trusted to not fuck shit up if they were put in charge of WoW lore?

Sarah Pine?

>>49865613
The players. Not even joking. If the WoW team had the ambition and love for their game they've always claimed they did we'd have lore progression that reflects the evolving game environment.

A quest chain from X big lore figure is done by a large percentage of players? Put that guy in the next running for warchief/leader, since he's so popular. NPCS for an evil faction in Y zone aren't killed much? Make their numbers grow and promote them as a legitimate world threat, since all those adventurers obviously aren't thinning their herds. WoW should have been more of a living world, and the devs should have been using player statistics more to influence the game's progression (like practically every good MMO does to some extent these days).

>>49865990
But players are morons

Have you seen the forums? They like Sylvanas, SYLVANAS

>>49866032
There is plenty to like in Sylvanas
>removing furries
>being a proper undead overlady instead of being another hikimori neet like the lich kings
>absolutely no morals at all

10/10 would help to genocide the living

>>49866068
>The Lich King
>A NEET
>Implying Sylvanas isn't suffering from Metzenphrenia

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>>49866068
>Implying Lich King Bolvar isn't the king Azeroth both needs and deserves.

>>49866068
>A complete coward who's entire motivation is "fuck everyone and everything else, I don't want to die"
>Absolutely no morals at all
>Completely shits on her own viewpoints from earlier expansions/WC3

0/10 would gladly kill in a raid

>>49864826

An event horizon that large would be heavier than the sun and tear earth apart at relativistic speeds.

>>49865179

I would love a good reboot, there are so many great pieces of worldbuilding, races and events to build on, its just an incohesive mess right now.

I would keep the horde as a tightly knit shamanistic band of brothers instead of turning them into dindu nuffins and the forsaken as morally ambigous instead of scourge-lite. The alliance should be this huge, powerful but disjointed empire with lots of political manouvering and intrigue. Just look how popular game of thrones is, take a few pages from their books. God knows how much they have to spare.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the draenei retcon and it gave us a great race with lots of possibilites to explore, leave 'em alone kids.

>>49866253
The Alliance should be an ALLIANCE, not an empire

The Horde should always remain a band of underdogs, although I guess I'm in the minority for wanting the Horde and Forsaken to remain allied because I like the idea of these two ideologically-opposed factions teaming up solely to avoid destruction, then slowly growing to trust each other as more than allies of convenience over time

what mount should i sink all my effort into getting?

>>49866343

As an empire I meant doing imperial stuff. Like having a questline where you set up a base in STV and talking about muh manifest destiny about the alliance ruling everything from the cape of stranglethorn to quel'danas.

>Horde and Forsaken to remain allied because I like the idea of these two ideologically-opposed factions teaming up solely to avoid destruction, then slowly growing to trust each other as more than allies of convenience over time

I liked that streak of idealism vanilla horde had, trying to redeem another race like they redeemed themselves from the demons. Especially with the darker undercurrent of the grimtotem-forsaken alliance. But then they became mustache twirling villains poisoning sleeping druids, killing sick taurens in their capital and even fucking their own allies over.

The "forsaken are just misunderstood" is the worst community meme after dindu golden boy illidan.

>>49866434

Headless Horseman mount.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>49866068
>deploying the same plague that destroyed Lordaeron and turned her people into the abominations they are now on the only human kingdom besides Stormwind to survive the Third War
>the Putress false-flag and the murder of hundreds of Alliance and Horde soldiers
>trusting an actual literal Dreadlord with anything
>murdering a boy who's just come of age in front of his father, using a poison arrow, just because you're mad about your siege being broken

Sylvanas is not a clever zombie.

>>49866452
The Forsaken finding redemption was a possibility right up until Cataclysm ruined it

Hell WotLK actually made the concept more palatable with the retaking of the Undercity. Not only do you purge the more zealous elements of the Forsaken, you also give Sylvanas a very direct view of exactly what sort of shit she's been brewing up and why she needs to change herself and the Forsaken

>>49866488

>most undead-reking paladin orders consist mainly of humans
>decide to kill off all humans
>strongarm your previous race into supporting your northrend invasion for no reason, when you could have easily just convinced them and pull rank as ranger-general
>now they hate and revile you too

>>49866519

Jokes on you, she went full scourge now, afraid of death and trying to kill her own sister and cursing her with the aberration she is trying to escape.

>>49865179

>The Scourge and Legion mow over the Eastern Kingdoms besides Stormwind, Kul'tiras, and Ironforge.
>Illidan dies and stays dead from Arthas.
>Dalaran gets wrecked with Kael'thas as the last Kirin Tor.
>The Scourge mows over Quel'Thalas. All leftover High Elves in the East go Blood Elf. Lor'themar and his troops go around keeping out the Scourge and Forsaken from the capital.
>The Scourge and Legion invade the South of the Eastern Kingdoms. They are beaten by the armies of the Alliance of Stormwind with secret help from the Red and Black Dragonflights.
>The Blood Elves and Naga go around the Nether fighting the southern kingdoms of the East, Scourge, and Outland citizens. Since Illidan died in Northrend Kael, Lady Vashj and Akama lead the Illidari. With the power of fel magic, they set their sights for worlds: Outland, Azeroth... and maybe more. The Mag'har Orcs have been slaughtered or enslaved. Gronn, Magnaron and Ogres are also slaves of the Illidari. But before Azeroth can get conquered, the Illidari have to defeat the Genesaurs, Ancients, Botani, Podlings, and Fara of Outland. Also, a young Orc of the Warsong Clan rebels against the Illidari...
> In Theramore Jaina Proudmoore founded a library of the arcane. Kul'Tiras lists Jaina as a traitor since she repeatedly supported the Horde.

I threw these around.

I'm thinking of playing Warcraft III, since it seems to get a lot of high praise from people. How much of this is nostalgia lenses, though? To anyone who played it recently, would you tell me if it actually aged well or if it's somewhat overrated? (I'm more interested in the storytelling aspect than gameplay.)

>>49866567
>Kill off the mag'har
>Keep one of the two main reasons to kill the mag'har anyway

Why?

>>49866594
It's an alright RTS, definitely better than WC2.

Story wise, it has a lot of elements that were clearly included solely for gameplay purposes, some of which have weird connotations, like making Tyrande look like a hotheaded idiot, but it's surprisingly solid overall, hammy as fuck, but still good

>>49866253

> Also, there is nothing wrong with the draenei retcon and it gave us a great race with lots of possibilites to explore, leave 'em alone kids.

They're blue and better Humans. And the retcon wasn't even needed. They could have just had the playable Eredar as those who were corrupted by Naaru instead of Sargeras.

>>49866659
Playable lost one draenei could also work

>>49866488

The Forsaken are fine with Blight, they've always been fine how things are going.

Putress was a Burning Legion cultist, they took over the Undercity for a time.

Liam jumped in front of her shot to save his father - she wasn't aiming at him.

>>49866649
Thanks for the reply. I don't mind some hammy-ness, but do you think the characters have depth? Can you get emotionally invested in them? I find that a lot of the figures in Warcraft's universe have inconsistent/confusing characterization, and it breaks my enjoyment when I can't get a "feel" for who they are.

>>49866813

Arthas was more rounded as a character in WC3, namely TFT.

>>49866813
WC3 characters have much more consistent personalities when compared to their WoW counterparts

Arthas in particular is well done, his slow passage from paladin to death knight is managed with surprising grace. Even if people still insist he was totally right all along.

WC3 is also why I like the Horde, Thrall is honestly quite charismatic in it, not sure how I'd feel playing it for the first time as an adult, but as a 13 year old his viewpoint of "I can do better, we can all do better" made me want him to be right

>>49866857

I'm talking Death Knight Arthas in WC3 VS his WOW Version.

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>>49863077

>>49864056
>the Old Gods are paramount to the survival of Azeroth

No longer true.
A) It was only the Titans attempting to directly remove them themselves that would have been fatal to Azeroth, in much the same way removing your appendix with industrial mining equipment would be.
B) The computer that told us that had been reprogrammed by Loken after his corruption, and lied about Loken being the Prime Designate, so unreliable source.

>>49866659

>the eredar and the nathrezim corrupted Sargeras

to

>the nathrezim, whos entire thing is corruption corruped Sargeras

Thats it. That was the big retcon everyone is still whining around. Even that retcon was retconned away in Chronicles.

>They could have just had the playable Eredar

Well guess what the fuck the draenei are. Except they dont really like associating themselves with the legion so they use a different name.

>>49866813

This is like the biggest mistake of the writers. Characters just flip-flop around without any reason or foreshadowing.

>>49866147
Usurper, get the fuck off the One True King's throne!

Scourge civil war when?!

>>49867170
I think you're a bit confused

The problem here is that the draenei we got in BC aren't draenei, and real draenei were renamed "lost ones" and are now super-corrupted draenei, and basically everything about Akama was retconned to be completely different
Also Naaru, fuck Naaru, those things should not exist

>>49867326
Blame Elune, not me. You got a problem with Naaru, talk to her.

>>49867326

Hint: they are all draenei and technically all eredar. Dont tell me that using different names for their mutated tribes is that confusing.

>basically everything about Akama was retconned to be completely different

What is that "everything"

In WC3 Akama was a literally nobody who joined you cause youre killing orcs too. Then in BC he got a great storyline. The Unbroken short story and the quests about the lost ones in zangar were also great and flavorful.

I find myself in an awkward situation.

Let's assume I need to GM in two days and in that time learn how to act like Kel'Thuzad.

Any tips besides "read all available material?"

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>>49866460

>>49867820
do you have a cat?
are you loyal?
do you have a great voice that oozes charisma and would make lilith herself blush?
have you read Frostblood?

if you answered no to any of these, consider re-thinking your GMing strategy

>>49867938
Well that's a problem, because I can only answer "yes" to two of those (okay, three if you ask my friends from back in high school but they're biased).

Luckily for me, one of those is having read Frostblood.

>>49866068
Of all the things to like, it wasn't her
>DSL
>nice, plump, heaving, sweaty chest
>finely toned ass
>stare that says she wants dick
>plucked turkey

>>49861427
>Nah. Blackhand was always an easily-manipulated dunce. Strong as an ox. And about as smart.

>>49862277
>Blackhand was, from the beginning, a bull-headed idiot.

From Warcraft 2 Manual - The History of Orcish Ascension (as told by Gul'dan, Chieftain of the Stormreaver clan)

>Blackhand, chieftain of the young Blackrock clan and a Raider in the Sythegore Arm, was well honored by most Orcs within the Horde. More importantly, he was extremely lustful, and this made him easily corruptible. With help from the Shadow Council, I set the eager Blackhand upon the horned throne of the War Chief. To his credit, Blackhand was a ruthless dictator who inspired awe and terror from his warriors. While the Horde rallied under Blackhand and the other chieftains acquiesced control to him, it was I who dictated policy by blackmailing and bribing Blackhand.

>When I finally arose, I learned of the shift in the balance power within the Horde. Blackhand had been killed. Without my magiks and counseling to aid him, Blackhand fell prey to a surprise attack launched by one of his strongest and most trusted generals - Orgrim Doomhammer. Orgrim was quick to consolidate his power within the Horde, justifying the assassination of Blackhand by securing false testimony that supported his claims of the Destroyer's incompetence as War Chief.

>>49868950
Clans of the Horde:
>Although years of war have reduced their numbers, the Blackrock clan remains the strongest within the Horde. Ruled for many years by Blackhand the Destroyer, the Blackrock clan rose quickly in power and was responsible for numberless victories against the Humans in the First War. Orgrim Doomhammer - known also as the Backstabber - assassinated the ruthless, but careless Blackhand, and named himself clan chieftain and War Chief of the Horde. The Blackrock clan continues to dictate the course of the war intimidating the lesser clans within the Horde into following Orgrim's lead. The forces of the Blackrock clan are fanatically loyal to the Doomhammer and will serve him with their lives.

Blackhand in Warcraft 2 seems to be controlled through his greed, not because he's stupid, which he's clearly not.

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>>49868005

>>49868950
>>49868987
The Destiny of the Orcish Hordes - The history and legends concerning the invasion and domination of the Human lands scribed by Garona of the Shadow Council.

>It has been some fifteen years since this costly decision altered the course of our destiny. Many called for the closing of the gate, while other factions fought for another attack upon the Humans with all of our forces. Out of this chaos arose a single Orc with a cunning and guile that few others possessed. Careful manipulations and the use of what support he could muster made his voice ever stronger as time passed. After key opponents were dealt with, few could offer any opposition to his plans, and the rule of the great Orc War Chief Blackhand was upon our people.

>His cruelty and dominance in battle is only overshadowed by his lust for power. He has studied the means with which Human armies are able to defeat overpowering numbers of Orcs through strategy and guile. From these tactics he has learned to bring organization to the scattered attacks of our raiding parties. He sought assistance from both houses of the arcane arts, searching for other weapons to add to his arsenal. The culmination of these plans will involve the uniting of all the Orcish clans - Armies, Warlocks and Necromancers alike - to bring about the eventual destruction of the Human race. The Age of Chaos is now at hand.

And in Warcraft 1, Blackhand is described as Tactical Genius, cunning and brutal.

So much about the "Blackhand was always strong as an ox, and equally dumb" meme.

>>49867170
>Even that retcon was retconned away in Chronicles.
Debatable. It went from:
>Seeing actions of Eredar (destroy stuff) and Nathrezim (corrupt beings to go against their own, and then turn them into shadow) made Sargeras doubt his purpose, which led him to destroy their prison
through
>No real lore about how Sargeras went evil after the Eredar retcon
to
>Sargeras found World Soul corrupted by Old Gods, found Nathrezim chilling and walking on this world, they explained to him what actually have happened here, including Void Lords

>>49869040
>>49868005
>>49867938
Is Frostblood dead?

>>49869634
It's not dead, anon. It's complete. The story has an ending.

I had an idea regarding Sylvanas.
Her character is basically built around the fear of permanent death and there's a way to circumvent that dangling right in front of her face all along - Val'kyr. Namely, become one.

Of course, that would be far easier a goal to work towards if she didn't piss off Eyir first, but common sense hardly factors into anything she does, anyway.

>>49869741
Really? It seemed like it just tapered off with Cataclysm.

>>49869927
It's marked as "Complete" on FF.net, and considering the last chapter's title, the end credits, and the overall ending, I'd have to say that was meant to be the end of it.

>>49869892

I loved the part when she invaded a famously isolationist, completely irrelevant nation currently fighting a civil war and getting the forsaken bogged down in their version of vietnam. What the fuck were they even hoping to gain from Gilneas.

>ywn be an ancient metal viking slaying old god servants alongside Thorim and Odyn

>>49868950

Quit talking to a Hillary voter.

>>49869892

The Forsaken being both playable and in the Horde is a mistake.

>>49869959

Now I can imagine why the vrykul were so let down.

Imagine if your perfect metallic war form, untiring, unstoppable, unbreakable became some scrawy shit requiring to spend a third of every day unconscious, requiring to constantly shovel organic matter in your face, build housing not to freeze to death, take shits, make kids and actually raise them etc.

Is Sylvanas' whole schtick regarding furthering the Forsaken ''''race''''' the most nonsensical piece of fluff in the game?

>>49869957

Garrosh ordered a port in the Eastern Kingdoms for the Horde. Of course, that gets the question of what was stopping Sylvanas from asking Greymane to help the Horde so that they could help Gilneas with their issue.

>>49869986

It could have been great. The vanilla forsaken especially the starting zone ones were absolutely great. You saw how they deal with undeath, sadness, rage, misery, apathy, denial etc and how vengeful they became because they have nothing else to do but huddle around in ruined buildings.

>>49870041

They were trash as soon as it was pjcked to have them as a playable version of the Scourge in the Horde.

>>49870074

Now this is shitposting

>>49870106
pre-WotLK Forsaken >>>> post-WotLK Forsaken

Kosak killing Vol'jin and then shilling his waifu into Warchief, because "Loa wants her to lead", and then make her make pact with Helya to enslave Odin's Val'kyr is something that will sooner or later make people drop the Horde, due to being tired of being villains.

>>49870137
>Sylvanas is warchief because spirits say so
I know there are more stupid things in Warcraft lore but that one will always be infuriating. There are at least three better options in the orcs alone, although Lor'Themar might actually be the best choice.
>implying blizz remembers Lor'Themar

>>49870137
Mate I dropped the Horde in Cataclysm, because the moment I saw the forsaken raising new undead, I knew that the writing for the Horde had tanked harder than anything else

Now I play a gnome monk because I hate myself

>>49870215
>Rommath saying that Lor'themar would make fine Warchief back during the Timeless Isle

>Vol'jin became Warchief
>Vol'jin not being allowed to do anything badass, or even kill stealing Garrosh with the arrow he promised to shoot him with
>Sylvanas is leading Horde troops on the Broken Shore, instead of Vol'jin
>Killed after being Warchief for one whole expansion
Varian should have died though, as it was the time when leader rotation should happened to Alliance and humans too, to keep up with number of Warchief changes.

>>49870137
Tbh Horde is at its best when they're allowed to be bloodthirsty monsters.

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>>49870269
addendum:
It's hard to be a Troll fan in those dark times of Kosak. I never thought I will miss Metzen.

>>49870269
I had just ignored Orclords of Orcnor. Did they really not let Vol'Jin kill Garrosh?

>>49870276
I understand your viewpoint and disagree vehemently with it

Warcraft as a whole is at its best when the Horde and Alliance are slightly different shades of grey, rather than being black and white respectively. Because the best conflicts are those where both sides have totally valid points that are non-compatible

>>49870295
Nope, Thrall challenges him into a duel and had to cheat to kill Garrosh.

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>>49870295
Nope. Garrosh was put on a show trial after being beaten in a raid, escaped, fled to a pocket dimension with the help of a rogue Bronze Dragon, and was killed by Thrall in said pocket dimension.

>>49870320

Horde was never a shade of grey in WoW though. After WC3 they are all full on warmongers.

>>49870295
Nope, Thrall did it

Because under Kosak, trolls are not allowed to matter, nor are Tauren, blood elves, or even goblins, only forsaken and orcs count in the Horde

>>49870276
No. It's not. But I am biased from liking Warcraft 3 orcs. Striving to be better than the Old Horde.

>>49870261
Rising the long dead is one thing, but rising the enemies? Or, especially, using Plague and being basically Scourge-lite? That disgusts me.


>>49870295
You beat up Garrosh's base, you come for him, then Thrall appears, challenges Garrosh, starts to getting beaten, and then uses Shaman magic to beat him. All in cinematic. No Vol'jin on Draenor when that happens.

Orclords of Draenor is a mix of neat changes (new Blackhand, Arakkoa, Highmaul and Ogre Empire) and awful ones (Fenris Wolfbrother suddenly becoming brother of Durotan, and no sign of Garm Wolfbrother anywhere), unfinished stories (Cho'Gall and his "new masters", no Farahlon because "it wouldn't fit the theme of expansion", no second continent for more Ogres), and wasted potential for good story (killing out Thunderlord and Shadowmoon leaders, instead of beating them and convincing them to go against Iron Horde).

>>49870333
You have started at Cataclysm, I presume? Because you clearly lie, half of Satan.

>>49870337
And the worst part of Orclords is Grom getting away with everything, only because Gul'dan captured him, and Killrogg drank demonic Kool Aid. No Grom Hellscream becoming boss and being punished for starting genocidal war, because of reasons.

>>49870333
Sure it was, in Vanilla they had some bastards screwing things up for everybody (Warsong bastards in Ashenvale, Grimtotem wherever they pop up), but for the most part they're just trying to survive. Hell, even the forsaken were mostly on the defensive against the scarlet crusade

>>49870368
I hate this

Main timeline Grom fucked up multiple times and eventually paid for those fuckups with his life

Orclords Grom fucked up almost as much and is treated as a hero for it and even keeps his life

>>49870323
>>49870328
>>49870336
>>49870337
Jesus christ. I even used to like Thrall but he's just the writers pet at this point.

>>49870368
>they fucked up Grom too
It's like they just keep shitting on people who liked WCIII.

>>49870400
Fell Orc Grom could had been a fine penultimate boss for the last raid.

>>49870401
And here's the main problem with Thrall

He isn't Metzen's pet, Metzen knew how to use a character like Thrall, no, he's Kosak's pet, used as an excuse to let orcs be total monsters and get away with everything

Kosak loves WC2 and clearly dislikes WC3, it's pretty evident in how much he's been trying to purge everything good WC3 did to the setting in favor of making it more like WC2

>>49870421
Yet he fails to make orcs as enjoyably evil as they were in WC2.

>>49870383

The forsaken were poisoning sleeping druids in Ashenvale and planning shit in Duskwood. They also wanted to exterminate humans from Hillsbrad and Arathi and also warred with Dalaran.

The orc also barely try to make any amends for their deeds and jump right back into wanting to war for conquest,. They even decry humans putting them into camps as some kind of horrific injustice needing to be avenged.

>>49870368


BUT HE A GOOD BOY!! TRYNA TURN HIS LIFE AROUND HE DINDU NUFIN

>>49870421
>Warcraft 2
More like Warcraft 1,given how other races are sidelined to oblivion, and how WoD Orgrim got killed in a retarded way by Blackhand for questioning his orders.

Does Kosak misses a tooth? Because he sound like a member of Black Tooth Grin Clan, loyal to Rend and Maim, and about as smart as the latter.

>>49870421
Yet Sylvanas is his waifu.

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I miss simpler times. Back when Azeroth's most powerful archmage... was also its most eligible bachelor.

>>49870459
Wanna bet that he has a turkey in his freezer that he humps while fantasizing about Sylvanas?

>>49869999
Propably her experience with him from the second war. I can't imagine she would actually expect him to help ORCS.

True question is, why haven't they BUILT a port? Forsaken do have access to coastline both in Silverpine and Tirisfal Glades. Hell, there even is newly built (though small) port in Silverpine bringing in supplies and soldiers for Gilneas invasion. Also,what we see in the game is apparently what we got. Did Lordaeron really had no port in the entire kingdom outside Southshore? Which was plagued, destroying all its strategic value. And then there's the matter of Horde fleet that showed up in Gilneas despite Horde having no decent port anywhere...

Dammit, Kosak!

>>49870678
We are talking about Forsaken here, the same guys who even after a decade opt to live in severs rather than build anything new.

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I've only semi-paid attention to the storyline of Warcraft for the most part, but there's something I don't understand.
After all the latest retcons, the Legion and the old gods/void lords are supposed to be enemies, right?
And Xavius and the other satyrs are night elves who joined the Legion and became demons? We even see them fighting alongside the other demons fairly often.
So... why exactly is the "heart" of the Emerald Nightmare a random chunk of not!Cthulhu and the rest of the Nightmare is similarly filled with various eldritch cosmic horror-style shenanigans? Considering that some of the whispers from it seem to hint that the basis of the whole Broken Isles storyline is just a huge ruse, is it possible the stuff about the void lords and their relation to the Legion is just BS too?

>>49870678

Thats also related how the horde keeps pulling out entire armies, navies and sky battleships out of hammerspace. It completely destroyed any underdog feelings and my suspension of disbelief.

>>49870704
They must like living in sewers, because they evidently are capable of building new things: they rebuilt Brill, build towns in Northrend, all with completely new architecture.

>>49870710
After Legion was defeated in WotA, Xavius found a new employer.

>>49870751
Except the Legion was STILL working alongside all the nightmare-corrupted critters, even when the nightmare was spreading towards the temple of Elune the Legion was right there with them.

>>49870710
Xavius isn't affiliated with the Burning Legion, along with the rest of the Nightmare. In fact, the only leveling zone in which the primary antagonist is a pawn of the Legion is Stormheim. Otherwise, you're dealing with the Hatecoil Naga, the Old God-affiliated Nightmare and Dargrul's drogbar.

And considering that Dargrul's assisted by a mysterious, hooded bodyguard wielding strange magic, it's possible that all three of those are actually either servants of the Old Gods or being manipulated by them.

>>49866203
While true, it's possible that the image was captured mere seconds after it occurred.

>>49870710
>>49870751
>>49870794
>>49870795
>Stormheim
Main enemy - Legion aligned God-King Skovald, secondary enemy - Helya, whose defiance went along with Loken's plans, which makes her indirect pawn of Old Gods
>Highmountain
Main enemy - Dargul the Underking, unaligned. Secondary enemy - Bloodtotem Tribe, Legion aligned.
>Val'sharah
Main enemy - Xavius, cooperating with Legion, but working for Old Gods. Minor Legion presence in Ravencrest Fortress.
>Azshuna
Main enemy - Hatecoil Naga. Is there any Legion-allied presence there?
>Suramar
They allied with Legion, but there are also stuff that are rather weird, like Spider Elves.

Anyway, what ARE the Drogbar? As in, their origins.

>>49870830

Followers of Didier Drogba

>>49870830
The Drogbar are probably a breed of trogg. Either way, their origins are as slaves of Neltharion.

>>49870878
>Trogg
They look more like very bulky Trolls to me.

>>49870898
The fact that plenty of them literally have pieces of stone fused to their bodies makes me think that they're descended from Titanforged, which trolls are specifically not.

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>>49870920
As far as I can tell, they are wearing those crystals.

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>>49871034
In the comic they give a mix of Troll and Orc vibe, but that's just that.
brul

>>49871034
What about the shards of stone around the knuckles, or on the forehead, or on the top of the head, or the forearms and elbows?

>>49871083
You know, they were the slaves of the EARTH-Warder. And I remember that when Malfurion was in Neltharion's Lair back during War of the Ancients series, the guardians of the Dragon Soul were described as pale Trolls. And Hammer of Khaz'goroth was in Neltharion's hands too, so with those two powers in hand, he could change some poor (Dark?) Trolls to fit his needs more.

>>49870830
There's a whole island filled with demons near the Illidari stand in Azsuna.

>>49870830
>Anyway, what ARE the Drogbar? As in, their origins.
May well be Titan failure of a race. They are to the Mogu what the Troggs are to dwarves. But not a stupid.

>>49871125
He asked for demon allies, not demons themselves.
But it depends on whose cock does Azshara want to suck now, demon or N'Zoth's.

>>49864041
It already happened. Twice. Where do you think the Forsaken and Ebony Blade came from?

>>49871194
>Where do you think the Forsaken and Ebony Blade came from?

Illidan being a Captain Planet villain and Arthas being wasteful with his resources.

>>49865990
I still say that the raid in 5.4 should have been faction locked, Siege of Orgrimmar vs Siege of Stormwind (with a less blatantly evil Garrosh throughout the expansion) and the side that got finished on mythic more would be the canon ending of MoP

>>49871228
>The true enemy of the Scourge. Global warming

>>49870536
>ywn ball so hard that you have to time travel to the future to find bitches that are good enough for you

Is there any good WoW conversions for D&D 4e?

Never played 4e, but I always heard it was "like WoW" so you'd think it'd make for a good conversion.

As somebody who hasn't played Wow in years, but still likes the lore could somebody give me the tl;dr version of Legion's plot?

>>49870106

>Tries to mow over Humans in Hillsbrad and Arathi

Forsaken are really not like the Scourge everyone.

>>49870678

If working with Orcs didn't stop the Forsaken and and Blood Elves then it shouldn't stop Gilneas.

>>49871472
Alt. Gul'dan opens a portal in the tomb of Sargeras, demons everywhere, Illidan was a good boy that did nothing wrong.

>>49870678

Dont forget the horde fleet garrosh pulled out of the goblin refugees ass, sailed around the world then had it all sunk around the coasts of twilight highlands.

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>>49863048
>Warcraft
>lore

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>>49871511
I must admit, you are persistent in your shitposting.

>>49871472

>Burning Legion comes to Azeroth with help from Gul'dan
>Alliance works with the Horde who has totally shown they aren't suspicious
>>Battle happens, Varian and Vol'jin die and it overall goes downhill, the Horde bails while trying to send message to Alliance.
>Sylvanas is Warchief
>Illidindu Nuffinrage does stuff

I used to role-play in Everquest when I was in high school and WoW in college.

There are a ton of horny housewives out there.

>>49871535
The horde don't send a message though, because we need a PvP event this expansion. So we get "Oh shit Bail!", the Horde retreat and Varian dies because of it.

>>49871582
fuck off Jaina

>>49871582
Tbh calling a general retreat just because your boss is wounded was pretty dick move.

>>49871607
That's what you get when you let undead elves, that are horribly afraid to permanently die, lead the entire operation.

>>49871607
They were outnumbered in fairness, but they were just fighting nameless Demons. The Alliance were squaring off against a plethora of named Demons who are established hardcore badasses. Plus, had Gul'Dan been slain the whole Invasion could've been staggered in its initial stages, but as >>49871623 said, when you put a pussy in charge you'll run away as soon as you face real opposition.

>>49871701
Except that the Horde was facing orbital bombardment-equivalent and potential annihilation of its whole forces, and Gul'Dan still had a reasonable contingent of warriors.
To boot, killing Gul'Dan might help with Suramar, but it won't stop the naga in Azsuna, the EN in Val'sharah, Drogbar in Highmountain, Helya and Skovald in Stormheim, any legion remnants across the isles (and those that were ported in would still need to be taken down later on) nor it does prevent the Legion from sending another warlock on gul'dan's level.

>Finish the Suramar questline
>Manage to grow a magic tree whose fruit contains/is consumable arcane magic/mana
>The Nightfallen daily quests to feed Thalyssra, Oculeth and Valtrois are no longer offered because they are now perfectly able to sate their hunger and thirst by themselves

Those little touches are great. I'll admit, I half-expected them to just leave the quests available for all eternity due to laziness/a lack of fucks to spare.

>>49871753

Maybe KJ will get off his lazy ass

>Fight for my pleasure

Killed my immersion completely .

>>49871753
None of the other zones were a problem at that point. The time passed between the Broken Isles and the moving of Dalaran weren't made any worse by "Oh and these things called Drogbar pinched a Hammer!"

I also presumed that Gul'Dan was something of a singular entity, otherwise there'd be no point in Archimonde rescuing Gul'Dan and sending him to MU Azeroth.

>>49871557
Um Anon...
I don't think they were "wives"

I'll admit I kind of miss EQ. It had a fun world even if it was pretty damn generic.

>>49871774
But what about their buffs? I need Thalyssra's buff to beat Leystalker Dro!

>>49871789

Only an orc would be stupid enough to trust the legion

>>49871807
just play your tank spec

>>49871805
You can still get them by paying 10 Ancient Mana, as I recall.

>>49871807
>Only an orc would be stupid enough to trust the legion
Meanwhile in Highmountain
>What the Bloodtotem must give in return?
>Everything!
>I guess that isn't so bad...

>>49871804
They were in my experience because I met them out of the game. Still Facebook friends with a few from my EQ days (WoW, not so much). Looking back, it's kind of weird because some of them weren't much younger than my mom.

EQ was a generic world but a real experience. The world was so enormous and full of danger. A lot of it would be seen as horrible design now, but it did a lot to put you into the game world, and all the inconveniences made you rely on others, which made the whole game have a greater sense of community. Project 1999 was pretty good about emulating this but I dunno how it's held up.

WoW was like this to some extent in vanilla. Shame they aren't doing an official vanilla realm. I've leveled to 60 so many times on legit servers (and would be doing it now except I don't know any friends with them in it).

>>49871859

Who? Tauren? Wtf are those?

>>49871865
Don't tell me that you got into some kind friends with benefits relationship with a lonely housewife that spent her days by playing EverQuest?

Don't you think that if the horde was dismantled, Forsaken purged and orcs corralled on Kalimdor to be contained, no further shit would happen? All the calamities faced in pretty much every expansion are related directly or indirectly to something that they did.

>>49871900
Not him, but my raiding guild fell apart in WOW because the raid leader's wife left him for our main tank. I know other guys with similar stories, so yeah, it's not as unlikely or uncommon as you think.

>>49871929

t. Elves

>>49871936
I guess that I should be happy that the only grill in my guilt back when I still played was just a yandere lesbian that got imprisoned after trying to kill her gf.

>>49864695
Join the scourge.

YOUR ONLY HOPE FOR SURVIVAL

>>49871789
Issue would be the Horde Civil War that could happen again
>Undead full on internal war for who replaces Sylvannas, means Horde loses most EK territory.
>Blood Elves need to be put a watch on because they might try and switch sides
>Trolls without a leader nor last message, could potentially give the Zandalari a foothold if not put people on watch
>Eitrigg and Nazgrel the last two orcs alive with any aknowledgement at all, the former not being a warrior figure and the latter having been irrelevant after TBC
>Baine gone, Magatha might try to seize TB and the Tauren
Them trying to make their last stand and be wiped to a man would mean giving the Alliance effective control of Azeroth.

>>49871880
Bloodtotem Tribe is one of the tribes of Highmountain Tauren. They drank demonic kool aid, and renamed themselves into Feltotem.

>>49872026
If the Alliance had a shred of political competence, they would have exploited Horde fractures and took them apart ages ago.

>>49872032
Why can't the evil guys for once be called something like Flower Picker Clan or something?

>>49872100
Because the founders of the clan knew they'd become evil someday and had to pick a name to match.

>>49872100
Because those who have tendency for evil have names that are similar to the traits that makes them evil.

>>49872079
>mists
>crack elves show signs of wanting out of the horde
>alliance doesn't help them to defect

>>49872121
They were trying to do it subtle, but then Jaina happened.

>>49872121
Restoring Quel'Thalas was so close and they fucked it up.

>>49872121
m-muh Divine Bell
m-muh mana bomb

>>49871083
>>49871034
>>49870898
Theres a quest in Higmountian "between a rock troll ans a hard place" they are trolls

>>49872100
Black Tooth Grin Clan sure sounds happy.

>>49872100
Flowers of Happiness? Wait, no, they were good guys.

>>49872357
>naming your clan after a line from a Megadeth song
top edge

>>49870433
>They even decry humans putting them into camps as some kind of horrific injustice needing to be avenged.

Where do they do this?

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>>49872416
They have a super friendly banner.

So why is one moon a powerful mysterious goddess, and the other moon is just a moon?

What is up with that other moon, anyway?

>>49872486
it's made of [spoiler[warpstone[/spoiler]

>>49872475

Every fucking quest where the camps are mentioned.

>>49872251
>they ate trolls
>trolls have 3 fingers
>they have 4
>elves, after they mutated, also got 4
So are they dark trolls?

>>49872512
>delete-delete

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>>49872575
>Dark Trolls lived around Hyjal, Well of Eternity, and between
>Suramar is in the outside parts of once Amani lands
>Elves never conquered Troll capitals, and kept away from Titanforged bases, except of unknown place where N'zoth was imprisoned
Who knows?

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>>49872761
Post Black Empire map for comparison

>>49872571

Really? I don't remember that. Can you backup your claim with sources?

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>>49872789
Night Elf Empire

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>>49872813
Black Empire

>>49872809
Not that anon, but if you're asking about orc interment camps in Warcraft.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Internment_camps

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>>49872824
And finally, Azeroth post The Great Elven Fuckup

>>49872834
magic was a mistake

>>49872828

I'm not asking about internment camps. I want him to source his claim that:
>"They even decry humans putting them into camps as some kind of horrific injustice needing to be avenged."

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>>49872853
Elves were a mistake, you mean

>>49872869
>thrall sends a letter telling the alliance to gibsmedat and reparations for the second war and the internment act.

>>49872809

I'm not going to dig through vanilla quests just for you to dismiss them as ORCS DINDU NUFFIN

>>49872972

So, you're not going to backup your claims and continue to make unsourced arguments?

Gotcha.

>>49872965

I think you're confusing "demanding reparations" with "demanding tribute," which is something that was commonly done prior to the modern era.

>>49872995

>So, you're not going to backup your claims and continue to make unsourced arguments?


Yeah you are pretty much going to have to live with this.

>>49872995
>
thrall says that the orcs have a right to stay in the EK and the alliance should give them money and land.

dumbass snownig.

>>49873019
>Yeah you are pretty much going to have to live with this.

And you're going to have to live with being dismissed as a retard who makes claims and doesn't back them up, thus proving himself not worth responding to.

>>49873049
>thrall says that the orcs have a right to stay in the EK and the alliance should give them money and land.

... by threat of war.

Threatening someone with war if they don't give you money and land isn't demanding reparations, dude. It's demanding tribute. The mongols are famous for it.

>>49872150
I'd be so happy if they killed Jaina off. She hasn't done a single thing that actually helped anybody since WotLK.

>>49873164
She almost did the whole world a favour but Thrall and Kalecgos talked her out of it

>>49873074
the orcs weren't even on the radar as a credible threat. Thrall barely managed to attack a few scattered camps that were chronically underfunded and escaped with the warsong clan and ran away west. He wasn't a military threat, he was a bandit chief scratching a living off rocks.

>>49872884
They quite literally were

I mean, the well of eternity was a mistake caused by the titans not knowing what removing an old god would do to Azeroth, and elves only exist because trolls stumbled across the well and mutated. So the entire existence of elves is a result of the titan's mistake

>>49872853
t. Malygos

>>49873164
she gave me a ring.
I will defend my waifu to the death.

>>49873193
>the orcs weren't even on the radar as a credible threat.

Cool opinion. However, considering this was pre-Scourge and there was nothing else happening in Lordaeron at the time except for the Orcish uprising, I am inclined to disagree.

>Thrall barely managed to attack a few scattered camps that were chronically underfunded and escaped with the warsong clan and ran away west.

Yes, it makes sense that a handful of orcs wouldn't be able to easily storm fortified locations. Despite that, they were successful until they had an army.

>He wasn't a military threat, he was a bandit chief scratching a living off rocks.

Again, sweet opinion. I wish you'd offer more than just opinions, though. I already stated why I disagree with this sentiment so there's no need to repeat myself.

>>49872150
but then [faction balance standards] happened

Horde without elves going up against draeni, purple elves and not purple elves? Might as well not be a horde at all.

>>49873264
Clearly they should just make Lor'Themar warchief

He fits more with the Horde than Sylvanas, being an elf of honor and valor, rather than an elf of cowardice and trickery

>>49873074

Oh noes, a random fuck on the internet is angry at me. What I will do.

>>49873164

Friendly reminder that she is guilty of regicide and patricide, the two most heinous crimes possible. Also can throw in some high treason and genocide but no one brings these up. I also like how Theramore had a problem with "deserters" trying to warn jaina about the horde and the quests about them decribed them as racist meanie poopie heads and you made fun of them by distributing fake pamphlets in their name, literal disinfo. And then they were completely right and the horde genocided them all. Oops. She also tpd out Varian from undercity, preventing him to kill off thrall and sylvanas and foiled the entire aliance attack on a horde capital and its never even mentioned again.

Fuck I want that worthless whore killed off so bad.

>>49873342
>Oh noes, a random fuck on the internet is angry at me. What I will do.

Nobody is angry at you for being dumb. Just disappointed.

>>49870336
>t. Warcraft tumblr
Is anyone else tired of this mentality? They don't have to have a perfect fucking spotlight ratio for every race/class combo. Stop trying to diversity quota the lore and deal with reality as it is. May as well be crying about systematic oppression of Tauren or some shit.

>>49870536
But khadgar

>>49873389
I just miss Vanilla

It wasn't perfectly balanced, but it didn't need to be, because every race got as much attention as they warranted. Of course gnomes get less stuff than dwarves, there's at least 10 times as many dwarves in the world as there are gnomes, probably closer to 100 times as many. Same reason why Tauren get less stuff than trolls, trolls are common and everywhere, Tauren are closesly knit and have had their population decimated by centaur and quilboar. The problem came when the imbalance just kept getting bigger and bigger with basically no steps taken towards bringing it back to Vanilla standards

Also, the Alliance was a fucking Alliance and operated like one, not the blue Horde following the blue Warchief

File: 1475708806445.png (406KB, 900x600px)

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>>49873401
One thing's sure: Khadgar sure learned from his master.

>>49873455
Play on an emulated server.

Also, Gnomes were better than Dwarves in Vanilla because Escape Artist.

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>>49873476

>>49871974
This.

The Lich King is dead.

Long live the One True Eternal Lich King.

>Illidan kills the entire fucking Moon Guard mage division
>Kur'talos is shocked,asks him wtf
>Illidan goes into a /r9k/ tier spergfest,calls everyone cowards and fools and insults Kur'talos
>all over Kurtalos basically only saying two sentences to Illidan

Are they trying to make him more or less sympathetic?I'm confused

>>49873495
Xe'ra has brain problems it just continues to get more retarded

>>49873493
>tfw you take the deadpill and realize Azeroth is better off under the Lich King
the undead can't be Old God-corrupted and the Helm of Domination prevents demon corruption. An army of the dead is the only thing that can truly defeat the Legion

>>49873495
From my perspective, Xe'ra is acting as if she (?) is looking at a different flashback than you do, or as if her morality compass is a bit tilted.

Also, did anyone noticed that Xe'ra is the only windchime that is communicating with actual speech instead of sounds that becomes words in your brain directly, or with pure feelings?

>>49873495
>pick up rock that fell from the Legion blockade
>hmm this must be the first naaru, obviously t. velen
>only naaru that can say "guys wtf this isn't my dad" gets annihilated by the Legion before you can show him the rock
>Khadgar suddenly has a genius idea: what if we took the demon rock, and stuck it to the old god rock
>thusly was Xe'ra born
she's full of shit and either Kil'jaeden or N'zoth fucking with us

>>49873551
>Lord of Ravens will use Pillars of Creation to open the lock by mistake
>Khadgar is supposed to retrieve Illidan's body and will try to revive him
I place my bet on N'zoth.

>>49873518
Long (un)live Bolvar, the King of the North.

>Final Illidan DinduRage flashback quest
>it is revealed Malfurion had asked Cenarius to ask Elune to ask Tyrande to love Malfurion, and he complied
>Xe'ra:Truly few have know such rejection and cuckery. What would you have done different,hero?
>You must go recruit a band of goblin mariachi to serenade Tyrande in Illidan's name,and thus redeem yourself for killing him.

At this point,it wouldn't surprise me.

>>49873664
It's sad how absolutely obsessed Illidan is over a girl who barely noticed him before and thinks he's a demonic freak now. He could literally bang any hot young Illidari pussy he wanted - they're all but begging for it every time you talk to any of them.

>>49873693
>create an army made of the races with the best looking women on Azeroth + metaforms if you want the thicc
>cry about your brother's wife instead of showing Kor'vas and Allari your Fel Eruption
elves were most definitely a mistake

>>49873693
Tyrande is sort of an amusing character, because if you look at what she's done, it becomes quite apparent that there are two reasons why she is the leader of the night elves.

1. She's a crack shot with a bow
2. She's hot

Leadership skills, tactical acumen, political cunning, great empathy for others, she lacks all of these, but they just don't matter to the night elves

>>49873759
Azshara was also queen because she was hot. In fact all her advisors and shit, if asked to describe them their attractiveness would probably be the first thing mentioned. They are just following tradition

>>49873828
The weird thing is Azshara was said to be the most ridiculously hot night elf.

After Illidan got his tats(bitches love tats) from Sargeras,she was all over him and Illidan was like '' DO NOT TOUCH ME WOMAN I LOVE MY BROTHER'S WIFE''

>>49873759

IIRC she used to be a really decisive, cunning and ruthless leader before she got retconned into army candy for Malfurion and a generic action grrrrl.

Freeing illybeans by KILLING his jailors was pretty fucking retarded though.

>>49873693

Ten thousand year of thirst and she even frees you to cocktease.

>>49873259
>
>Cool opinion
the orcs begin to attack the camps shortly before the wc3 prologue. Look at the human cinematic there when medivh appears.

>they were successful
in what way? Their escape nearly failed because the uber powerful warsong clan got captured by a bunch of militia.

>credible reason

again, look at the cinematic. The orcs begin to mass around the time of the cinematic and reappear on the radar of lordaeron. Arthas is sent to strahnbrad to investigate about what is happening to the orcs.

>>49873864
But she is decisive and ruthless

Not cunning mind you, but decisive and ruthless certainly.

I'm going by what we see her do here, not what we've been told are her good qualities. Her approach to conflict is "rush in arrows flying", and during the third war, it almost cost them Azeroth multiple times

>>49873828
>>49873860

It was magic. Azshara was one of the greatest wizards ever lived but instead of going with the pointy hat and fireball shit she used it to abuse the Elder Scrolls alchemy system and went for personality. It makes a hell lot of sense for a queen to do that.

>>49873751
>best looking
that's humans, though elves are probably in second

>>49873883

I like to imagine her as a female rambo with 10k years of combat experience. Violence solved a hell lot of things for her already so it always seems like a good solution

>>49873887
Of course she used glamour everyone did back then. The nightborne still use it in their everyday life

>>49873906
Yeah

I actually really like Tyrande as a character. She's not pants-on-head retarded or anything, she's just not the brightest bulb and has been unfortunately promoted above the level of her competence, and only now, after 10k years of holding the position, does she experience a conflict where this becomes apparent

>>49873874
>the orcs begin to attack the camps shortly before the wc3 prologue. Look at the human cinematic there when medivh appears.

Yes, and? This statement doesn't prove anything. Just because Terenas and his nobles weren't discussing orcs at that very moment somehow means that they weren't a blip on the radar, despite nothing else of note happening in Lordaeron at the time?

Hmm. Solid theory.

>in what way? Their escape nearly failed because the uber powerful warsong clan got captured by a bunch of militia.

Uhh, they already had an army before Grom got captured. Thrall destroyed Durnholde with a small army at his back, the majority of which came from camps that had already been liberated prior to Durnholde's destruction.

When Thrall does rescue Grom, he's already got all the orcs freed. They steal the boats and sail to Kalimdor, so I think you're confused here. Thrall had already succeeded in freeing all the orcs by the time of Grom's capture.

>gain, look at the cinematic. The orcs begin to mass around the time of the cinematic and reappear on the radar of lordaeron. Arthas is sent to strahnbrad to investigate about what is happening to the orcs.

Yes, what about the cinematic? A bunch of old dudes discussing politics? Am I supposed to believe that because they're not shown to be discussing orcs at that very moment that they were unconcerned with the orcs?

Arthas isn't sent to investigate Thrall's Horde. He's investigating orcs who were never imprisoned.

Moreover, what the fuck does this have to do with the original argument? Why did you deviate from the topic? Whether or not Thrall and his orcs were on "Lordaeron's radar" is completely irrelevant to the original discussion and just reeks of you being too butthurt to argue about that so you steered the conversation towards a topic you think you would fare better in.

>>49863048
I love the Headless Horseman's lore in the Warcraft Legends comics. Those comics in general were 90% awesome.
>>49863251
Gotta agree there.
>>49863898
Well no shit, it's Tony Amendola, aka Bra'tak the Badass from Stargate

>>49872575
>>49872251
>>49871054
I know that they're almost definitely what Rhonin THOUGHT were trolls in WotA. (Funny that they brought them in while also trying to REMOVE KNAAK as much as possible)

>>49874235
Are any of Knaaks characters even relevant anymore?

>>49872100
To be fair the GOOD tauren are also called the Bloodhoof.
>>49872475
>>49872571
They DID complain about the Internment camps, but not so much "They put us in them" as "While we were in them we were mistreated," which is still a little stupid but not as bad.

>>49873906
>>49873950
Those are 10k years of combat experience against scattered Satyr, Centaur/quilboar who wandered too far north, and the seasonal corruption of Furbolg (Those poor, poor Furbolg) and all that with the support of Cenarius a living demigod.


Easy battles teach bad habits.

>>49874310
Furbolgs never get a break. I feel bad for them. I always wanted them as a playable race, but since everyone has Pandas now that's never gonna happen.

>>49874310

Didnt she fought aganist demonic, elemental incursions and aganist the quiraji as well? Plus I'm dead sure she also fought trolls. You always fucking fight trolls.

>>49866068
I think the biggest disconnect is some people don't think assholes can be properly written.

There was is literally nothing wrong with being blatantly evil as long as you're interesting, as far as storytelling goes.

With all the stupid spectical creep they've had lately and making good and evil shitty cosmic concepts with no room for freewill. Plus they kill off every morally ambiguous character as fast as they make them specifically for immediate gratification.

Slyvanas has clear motivations, a tragic history and conflicting ideals. She's a great character (rare in nublizzard)but a bad person.

>>49873950

To be honest, the standard Night Elf doctrine for dealing with everything was to "shoot it with arrows" for that 10k years. She would be an absolutely terrifying field commander or warband leader but as a politician and commander in chief she is fucking worthless Malfurion too. Shandris too, The elves barely got to show anything until cata.

>>49874235
Rhonin wasn't there. It was Malfurion.
Then again, Elves were racists that considered other races inferior (Lei Shen would make them reconsider that feeling).

>>49873455
Vanilla was hilariously ally biased.

It did not help that there were up to 10 ally players for 1 horde player.

As a hordie on a pvp server you knew all ghost healers pretty fast.

>>49873342
Jaina also opened the first front against the horde with her attack on the barrens. That was the reason for the attack on theramore.

It wasn't the first time the humans used it for an aggressive war against the horde.

>>49874656
Tbh being outnumbered ten to one made playing as the Horde feel like you're an underdog (mostly because you in fact were one) and helped foster a sense of comradery between the players (after all nothing unites people like a common enemy).

>>49874656
Yes, and?

The Alliance was bigger and stronger, they had Ironforge, they had the largest population, they had gnomish technology. The Alliance held the bias because the Alliance was, in the lore, the more powerful faction

Also what >>49874699 said. The Alliance bias actually helped the game, rather than hindering it like the Cataclysm-onwards Horde bias does

>>49874656

Jokes on you, I actually vastly preferred that to the wotlk and onward dickwaving contest. I wanted to a proud, shamanistic tribesman trying to forge a new destiny and defending what little what we have instead of an imperialistic hypocrite who cries opression. Its like the devs wanted to eat their WC2 cake and but have the WC3 coleslaw too and in the end it was a nauseating mix.

I liked how horde settlements were cozy little villages or allies like forest trolls and ogres.

>>49873759
She's also the high priestess of Elune, which probably has something to do with her being the leader.

She's the leader by divine mandate, so it doesn't matter how incompetent she is, since questioning her leaderhsip would amount to heresy.

>>49874763
The vanilla Horde always felt more personable than the Vanilla Alliance

Not counting Tirisfal Glades, of course, but even Silverpine Forest and Tarren Mill in Hillsbrad were surprisingly cozy for being inhabited by undead

>>49874790

Considering the night elves are literally the children of Elune, force-evolved from trolls it carries much more weight than any real life analogue of theocracy.

>>49874495
>Demonic Incursions
Just the Satyr, as all wizards went to Eastern Kingdoms, and even then demons started to appear only after forming of Dalaran, as Quel'Thalas was protected by Runestones, that kept it hidden from Demons.
>Elemental
I do not think that Elves ever fought elementals until before Cataclysm.
>Qiraji
Fandral Staghelm and his son led Elven army there. Tyrande stayed in the kitchen.

>>49874495
>>49874930
After the Big Elven Fuckup, majority of Trolls were in Eastern Kingdoms, Zandalar, and Northrend. The only Trolls in Kalimdor were Dark Trolls and Zul'Farrak. Refer to >>49872834 >>49872813 and >>49872761

>>49874930

Kalimdor always had demons like the Grell. The whole world had demons.

Elemental incursions. Know your vanilla events.

>>49874958

They still had plenty of dark trolls even in WC3. In cata they rek a troll village for allying the horde with a WC3 style army.

>>49863509
>>49863588
>>49863660

Wasn't Arthas resurrected by Tichondrius??????????

>>49874790
>>49874846

How come there are never any fanatical Elune worshippers? Human Light-worshippers go off the deep end all the time.

I like like Altruis the Sufferer better, but I can't think of a single reason to put a guy all your people distrust at best in a position of power over them.

>>49875243
>Elemental incursions. Know your vanilla events.
My memory is shaky, and I do not think there was any mention of that happening in the past. No mention of it in Chronicles 1, for sure.

>>49875259
Shatterspear Village being destroyed after never being used as any kind of quest zone was something that Blizzard shouldn't have done. They should have make first Troll Druids come from there.

>>49875601
The fact that apparently Altruis cares not about Illidan (who Illidari cares about as a whole), who clearly wants to take over completely, and who is responsible for deaths of several Demon Hunter trainers and death of Varedis, which was main reason he could be swayed by Kil'jeaden, the only good aspect of Altruis is having Akama in person willingly, instead of Shade of Akama.

Loramus Thalipedes is superior Demon Hunter in every aspect.
>Gets shit done
>Hunts demons and is not afraid of anything
>Doesn't send you after fellow Demon Hunters, because he have real priorities

>>49874267
They were always contained to their own novels. Only Vereesa got to do something remotely significant in WoW.

>>49875681
Too bad Loramus is stuck inside a dreadlord's head, since he's the single best demon hunter ever.
>Got shit done
>Didn't pointlessly angst at you
>ACTUALLY sacrificed everything (after your character fails to kill the dreadlord his questline revolves around, he sacrifices his own life to bind his soul and that of the demon inside a soul-prison, trapping his soul inside a gem with a very pissed off demon).

>>49875504

They are all fanatical

>>49875681

I hate how even those tiny parts of BC lore got completely retconned and turned around just to enable dindu illybeans

Altruis was the original wise demon hunter guy who dared to disagree and leave the cray goldenboi.

>>49875681
Sure Kain is a giant yes man to Illidan but he is just a more likeable person than Altruis.
>Loyalty to his faction
>also thought Illidan was going a bit mental,but had faith in him pulling through
>did not fucking kill fellow Demon Hunters

Putting Altruis in charge of the DH is Microsoft hiring a new CEO who only has ''Bill Gates had lost his way so I helped assassinate several high ranking Microsoft employees'' on his resume.

>>49875844
Guess that he was the exception that proves the rule when it comes dindu hunters' uselessness.

>>49875917
I suppose that he is one of the oldest Demon Hunters, given that he was in Blasted Lands before the Dark Portal reopened, which means he couldn't follow Illidan before TBC.

>>49874656

Tbh, as a Horde player from Vanilla, I'd take that again in a heartbeat if it meant the faction wasn't as dumb as it is now and they got rid of blood elves.

As a Horde player in Vanilla, I felt a strange sense of pride BECAUSE of the huge disparity. Due to always being outnumbered, always being attacked, I learned how to PvP and was almost always better than any ally player I fought 1v1. This usually carried over into bg's, where Horde would just steamroll Alliance through superior skill and teamwork.

I miss those days.

>>49866460
>tfw been trying to get that fucking mount since 2007 and still don't have it

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>>49877978
>tfw when your friend that plays nonstop since Vanilla farms Ashes and Raven Lord on as many characters as possible still hasn't got it
>His face when my Catababby ass dropped Ashes and Invincible within a month of each other, and Raven Lord within 70-something runs

>>49872486
>ib4 "That's no moon, it's a (titan) space station!

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>tfw you can't make your character look like this

>>49878702
>tfw you will never be descended from Robot Vikings who exist solely to defend a planet

File: viking meme heaven.png (46KB, 892x219px)

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>>49878746

Good.

>>49878702
There are coats in the game but you can't get them. Just part of Blizzard's war to arbitrarily deny and remove gear that players might want.

>>49878897
Some vanilla robes kinda look like they include overcoats, but the technical limitations don't make it stick out too much. Other include something that look like steel breastplate (runecloth robes, but only on males)

>>49875601
>I like like Altruis the Sufferer better, but I can't think of a single reason to put a guy all your people distrust at best in a position of power over them.

You need a balance.
If everyone is willing to suck Illidan's dick then they can be led astray easily.
Altruis adds a different perspective, and most of the Illidari don't seem to care over much, just Kayn.

>>49879023
Yeah, Blizzard only had one preset for your torso and two presets for your lower body(robes removing your legs completely and a skin on the legs.
They've advanced to having armor modeled on the legs, but haven't updated the robe preset to even leave your legs in. So any robed character is just going to see their feet floating, attached to nothing underneath.
To do something like longcoats for pirate rogues, they'd have to create an entirely new preset for the legs.
Now, if they did, it would open up a world of opportunity to have new armor types. From long coats swirling behind you to skirt-type armors for people who want to really get into the gladiator thing to layers above robes.

NEW THREAD

>>49879212
>>49879212
>>49879212
>>49879212

>>49879145
Speaking of clothes, I incredibly envied Alexstrasza's transparent cloak back in WotLK.

I could add Genn's Legion greatcoat and Khadgar's WoD+ armored robes to the list. Sucks that Blizzard keeps incredible looking stuff like that to fixed, unique NPC models.

Of course, given that they STILL have clipping issues with the bland armor now...

>>49875681
>the only good aspect of Altruis is having Akama in person willingly, instead of Shade of Akama.
>Akama
>good
hurr durr draenei are shit fighters and got killed by orcs, clearly this is Illidan's fault
fuck that loser